1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:02,833 Kevin: Today on "This Old House," 2 00:00:02,900 --> 00:00:04,400 we are going to show you a blown-in insulation 3 00:00:04,466 --> 00:00:07,166 that we have never used or seen before. 4 00:00:07,233 --> 00:00:10,433 Tom: You pre-build the stairway, take them on site, 5 00:00:10,500 --> 00:00:11,933 and you have a crew that installs them? 6 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,100 -Nick: Correct. -Tom: Wow. That's a lot of work. 7 00:00:14,166 --> 00:00:16,166 Jenn: Today the brick walkway is going down, 8 00:00:16,233 --> 00:00:18,466 and it's all in the family. 9 00:00:18,533 --> 00:00:26,133 ♪♪ 10 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:28,000 Ah. That's it. 11 00:00:28,066 --> 00:00:34,733 ♪♪ 12 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:41,300 ♪♪ 13 00:00:49,366 --> 00:00:51,433 Kevin: Hey, there. I'm Kevin O'Connor. 14 00:00:51,500 --> 00:00:52,800 And welcome back to "This Old House" 15 00:00:52,866 --> 00:00:56,066 and to our project here in Glen Ridge, New Jersey. 16 00:00:56,133 --> 00:00:58,033 I'm coming down from the new third floor, 17 00:00:58,100 --> 00:00:59,700 which is gonna be a new primary suite 18 00:00:59,766 --> 00:01:01,866 for our homeowners, and if you look up there, 19 00:01:01,933 --> 00:01:03,666 you can see that it is framed out, 20 00:01:03,733 --> 00:01:05,066 we've got the ductwork in, 21 00:01:05,133 --> 00:01:07,033 and we've also got the insulation in 22 00:01:07,100 --> 00:01:08,666 on the underside of the roof. 23 00:01:08,733 --> 00:01:10,400 That is closed-cell foam. 24 00:01:10,466 --> 00:01:13,133 But below that, they're also gonna blow in 25 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,000 dense-pack insulation because they're trying to get 26 00:01:16,066 --> 00:01:18,500 to an R-60 on that roof system right there. 27 00:01:18,566 --> 00:01:19,933 That's a lot of insulation. 28 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:21,400 We've got a new staircase 29 00:01:21,466 --> 00:01:23,566 coming from the third floor down to the second floor. 30 00:01:23,633 --> 00:01:25,566 That's a big improvement from what was here. 31 00:01:25,633 --> 00:01:27,966 You may recall that somewhere in this area, 32 00:01:28,033 --> 00:01:29,533 there was this tight, 33 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:31,900 winding staircase up to the attic. 34 00:01:31,966 --> 00:01:33,900 Not up to code. Not very nice. 35 00:01:33,966 --> 00:01:35,900 So that has been replaced. 36 00:01:35,966 --> 00:01:38,833 Behind me, we've got a second primary suite. 37 00:01:38,900 --> 00:01:40,800 Now, this is gonna be for the homeowner's daughter 38 00:01:40,866 --> 00:01:43,000 and the son-in-law because two generations 39 00:01:43,066 --> 00:01:44,800 are gonna be sharing this house. 40 00:01:44,866 --> 00:01:46,133 So primary suite there, 41 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:47,900 a couple bedrooms for the kids eventually, 42 00:01:47,966 --> 00:01:49,466 as well as a laundry room. 43 00:01:49,533 --> 00:01:51,766 And one of the most dramatic changes to date 44 00:01:51,833 --> 00:01:55,333 is this right here -- a brand-new staircase, 45 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,400 nice and wide, that replaces what was here. 46 00:01:58,466 --> 00:02:01,600 Now, you may recall these used to have carpeting on them, 47 00:02:01,666 --> 00:02:03,566 a turn right here, they were narrower. 48 00:02:03,633 --> 00:02:05,766 And this is a big improvement. And check it out. 49 00:02:05,833 --> 00:02:07,133 When you walk through the front door, 50 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,433 you can now look all the way through this house 51 00:02:09,500 --> 00:02:11,333 all the way up to the third floor. 52 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:13,833 It really opens things up a lot. 53 00:02:13,900 --> 00:02:16,000 Another thing that opens it up is this foyer area, 54 00:02:16,066 --> 00:02:17,566 because there used to be 55 00:02:17,633 --> 00:02:20,100 a chimney over here, a couple closets. 56 00:02:20,166 --> 00:02:23,600 Now it is wide open, celebrating the staircase, 57 00:02:23,666 --> 00:02:25,633 the one up the top, and there's even another one 58 00:02:25,700 --> 00:02:27,133 down here to the basement. 59 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,500 And look at this. This is all finished work right here. 60 00:02:30,566 --> 00:02:33,766 So, this is an oak tread. This is a poplar skirt board. 61 00:02:33,833 --> 00:02:35,833 And these were installed just a few days ago. 62 00:02:35,900 --> 00:02:38,700 About five guys or so pulled them off of a box truck, 63 00:02:38,766 --> 00:02:41,933 and they set all three staircases in place. 64 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,933 And in about two hours, they were ready to go. 65 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,966 And that's because they were prefabricated off-site 66 00:02:48,033 --> 00:02:50,833 at a mill shop, which we had to check out. 67 00:02:50,900 --> 00:02:54,633 ♪♪ 68 00:02:54,700 --> 00:02:56,466 Tom: Nick. How are ya? I'm Tom. 69 00:02:56,533 --> 00:02:57,700 Nice to meet you. Nick: Nice to meet you, Tom. 70 00:02:57,766 --> 00:02:59,300 Tom: I just left the project house, 71 00:02:59,366 --> 00:03:00,800 and the stairway is beautiful! 72 00:03:00,866 --> 00:03:02,733 Nick: Oh. Thank you. Tom: So, basically, you 73 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,466 pre-build the stairway that's gonna go into the house. 74 00:03:06,533 --> 00:03:08,100 Nick: Correct. We'll take all the measurements 75 00:03:08,166 --> 00:03:10,633 of the home and the foyer, and then we'll come back here 76 00:03:10,700 --> 00:03:12,733 and map out everything in full scale 77 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,500 and design a staircase to fit in that space. 78 00:03:15,566 --> 00:03:17,133 Tom: Wow. Nick: We specialize, obviously, 79 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,666 in wooden staircases and railings, 80 00:03:19,733 --> 00:03:22,700 straight stairs, curved stairs, so we get involved 81 00:03:22,766 --> 00:03:26,900 in a lot of really unique and a lot of high-end projects. 82 00:03:26,966 --> 00:03:29,100 Tom: Well, I'd love to see how our staircase was built. 83 00:03:29,166 --> 00:03:32,233 Nick: Let's go take a look. Tom: Alright. 84 00:03:32,300 --> 00:03:35,900 So it looks like you got quite a few jobs lined up right here. 85 00:03:35,966 --> 00:03:37,066 Nick: We do. We're pretty busy. 86 00:03:37,133 --> 00:03:39,700 So, after the stairs are designed, 87 00:03:39,766 --> 00:03:42,000 this is the first part of the project where we come 88 00:03:42,066 --> 00:03:44,566 and we route the stringers for the staircases. 89 00:03:44,633 --> 00:03:45,800 Tom: And how are you cutting these? 90 00:03:45,866 --> 00:03:47,933 Are you cutting these with a hand router 91 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:49,933 or are you doing it with a CNC machine? 92 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,900 Nick: Uh, we used to do them by hand with a hand router, 93 00:03:52,966 --> 00:03:56,833 but behind us, we have two 2-axis CNC's. 94 00:03:56,900 --> 00:03:59,933 One of them is dedicated to doing the wall-side stringers, 95 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,633 as you can see here, with the pocket route. 96 00:04:01,700 --> 00:04:03,200 And the other one is dedicated 97 00:04:03,266 --> 00:04:05,800 to the cutout, or open-side stringers, 98 00:04:05,866 --> 00:04:07,566 as you can see here with the miters. 99 00:04:07,633 --> 00:04:09,833 Tom: Yeah. You know, that's nice and true and straight. 100 00:04:09,900 --> 00:04:11,533 You're not gonna get that with a handsaw. 101 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:12,900 Nick: No, no. 102 00:04:12,966 --> 00:04:14,400 Tom: And this is cut on that machine right there? 103 00:04:14,466 --> 00:04:16,600 Nick: It is. You can see Bob working back there on a project. 104 00:04:16,666 --> 00:04:18,800 It's come a long way since the old days of routing by hand. 105 00:04:18,866 --> 00:04:21,100 Tom: I bet it has. I've done these on the job site, 106 00:04:21,166 --> 00:04:22,433 and it's definitely time-consuming. 107 00:04:22,500 --> 00:04:25,533 Nick: Yes, it is. 108 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:27,466 And over here, we have the final stage 109 00:04:27,533 --> 00:04:30,400 where we assemble all the pieces into a staircase. 110 00:04:30,466 --> 00:04:33,266 As you can see, they're -- they're snugging the risers 111 00:04:33,333 --> 00:04:36,466 in the routed wall-side stringer now. 112 00:04:36,533 --> 00:04:37,966 Tom: Mm-hmm. Nick: And the next step 113 00:04:38,033 --> 00:04:40,166 will be to attach the cut-out stringer 114 00:04:40,233 --> 00:04:42,100 we saw earlier onto the risers. 115 00:04:42,166 --> 00:04:44,166 Nick: I notice on the back side of the risers here 116 00:04:44,233 --> 00:04:47,200 you have the pocket slots here for the screws. 117 00:04:47,266 --> 00:04:49,133 Nick: Yes. We try to do as much fastening 118 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,466 as we can underneath the staircase 119 00:04:51,533 --> 00:04:53,366 to prevent imperfections on the surface. 120 00:04:53,433 --> 00:04:56,300 Tom: I noticed that on the staircase at Zack's place 121 00:04:56,366 --> 00:04:58,733 because I didn't see a lot of nail heads 122 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,200 or anything on the face, which is really nice. 123 00:05:01,266 --> 00:05:03,633 Nick: Yeah, it makes for a much cleaner finish. 124 00:05:03,700 --> 00:05:06,066 Tom: Yeah. They're just tacking it off right there. 125 00:05:06,133 --> 00:05:08,166 Nick: Yep. They're just putting a couple brad nails 126 00:05:08,233 --> 00:05:11,800 in each riser to cut out a section here. 127 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,066 And in this part of the process, as you can see, 128 00:05:16,133 --> 00:05:17,600 they're putting the steps in, 129 00:05:17,666 --> 00:05:19,200 pocket screwing them from underneath. 130 00:05:19,266 --> 00:05:20,700 Tom: Yep. Yep. 131 00:05:20,766 --> 00:05:23,066 Nick: After all the treads are in, they'll come back 132 00:05:23,133 --> 00:05:27,566 and tighten up all the wedges and fasten everything securely. 133 00:05:27,633 --> 00:05:29,333 The glue is the last step in the process. 134 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:30,966 We want to make sure everything's tight 135 00:05:31,033 --> 00:05:32,966 and everything's square before we put the glue. 136 00:05:33,033 --> 00:05:35,233 Because once the glue dries, there's no changing anything. 137 00:05:35,300 --> 00:05:38,033 Tom: Oh, yeah. That's right. 138 00:05:38,100 --> 00:05:40,066 Nick: So, once the stairs are completed, 139 00:05:40,133 --> 00:05:43,800 they're pushed out to the back of the warehouse here. 140 00:05:43,866 --> 00:05:47,433 Tom: What about all the railings for these staircases? 141 00:05:47,500 --> 00:05:49,533 Nick: Well, the railings are also part of your project, 142 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,166 and we'll be installing those in the upcoming weeks. 143 00:05:52,233 --> 00:05:54,133 Tom: Well, that's great. I can't wait to see them. 144 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:55,866 And it's a very impressive shop here. 145 00:05:55,933 --> 00:05:57,900 And thanks for the tour. Nick: You're welcome. 146 00:05:57,966 --> 00:06:04,100 ♪♪ 147 00:06:04,166 --> 00:06:08,033 ♪♪ 148 00:06:08,100 --> 00:06:09,800 Jenn: The concrete walkway had to go, 149 00:06:09,866 --> 00:06:13,033 and this was the perfect time to add a little curb appeal. 150 00:06:13,100 --> 00:06:15,966 Jason, looks like you brought a little family affair here. 151 00:06:16,033 --> 00:06:18,333 Jason: Yeah, I brought my mom and dad to help with this project. 152 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:19,800 Jenn: Welcome. Nice to meet you. 153 00:06:19,866 --> 00:06:21,133 How do you guys know how to do this? 154 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:23,133 Judy: Well, back in Ohio, we had a landscape 155 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:24,633 contracting business. 156 00:06:24,700 --> 00:06:26,166 Jack started it. 157 00:06:26,233 --> 00:06:27,766 Jenn: So, what kind of projects did you do? 158 00:06:27,833 --> 00:06:31,700 Jack: Well, uh, we did walkways, patios, gardens. 159 00:06:31,766 --> 00:06:34,100 It was a landscape design build. Jenn: Mm-hmm. 160 00:06:34,166 --> 00:06:38,133 Jack: So we've had a number of years of experience with this. 161 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,633 Jenn: Excellent. And how did you guys get started here? 162 00:06:40,700 --> 00:06:42,233 What was your process? 163 00:06:42,300 --> 00:06:43,766 Judy: Because we came in from Ohio, 164 00:06:43,833 --> 00:06:46,233 we did not have to do the excavating. 165 00:06:46,300 --> 00:06:47,900 [ Laughter ] Jack: That was part of the deal. 166 00:06:47,966 --> 00:06:49,366 It was supposed to be done. 167 00:06:49,433 --> 00:06:53,633 Jenn: That is a big part of the deal, so that's great. 168 00:06:53,700 --> 00:06:57,333 Jack: We got the gravel base down yesterday, 169 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,133 and Jason compacted it this morning, 170 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,266 and now we're getting the sand base laid down 171 00:07:04,333 --> 00:07:06,000 and Judy's laying the brick. 172 00:07:06,066 --> 00:07:07,366 Jenn: Right, and I see you're laying 173 00:07:07,433 --> 00:07:08,866 the pavers in a bed of sand 174 00:07:08,933 --> 00:07:12,366 that's been screeded flat in between the rails, 175 00:07:12,433 --> 00:07:13,666 and you're following 176 00:07:13,733 --> 00:07:16,433 the existing curve shape of the walkway. 177 00:07:16,500 --> 00:07:18,200 Jason: Yeah, it's gonna be the same shape, 178 00:07:18,266 --> 00:07:20,866 but now we're gonna have a herringbone pattern. 179 00:07:20,933 --> 00:07:22,733 Jenn: Alright. So, can I help? 180 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:24,466 Jason: Absolutely. [ Laughter ] 181 00:07:24,533 --> 00:07:26,566 Jenn: Show me what you're doing. 182 00:07:26,633 --> 00:07:29,933 Judy: The first thing we need to do is we need to create a grid 183 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,366 so that we can follow that and keep our lines straight 184 00:07:33,433 --> 00:07:38,233 because herringbone is tricky to lay. 185 00:07:38,300 --> 00:07:40,266 Jenn: Laying pavers in a herringbone pattern 186 00:07:40,333 --> 00:07:42,133 does take a lot of precise measuring, 187 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,433 especially when the path is curved. 188 00:07:44,500 --> 00:07:46,600 ♪♪ 189 00:07:46,666 --> 00:07:49,366 The pavers have to go in at a 45-degree angle 190 00:07:49,433 --> 00:07:52,200 according to the layout lines. 191 00:07:52,266 --> 00:07:55,166 Using a herringbone pattern also means pavers will need 192 00:07:55,233 --> 00:08:00,100 to be cut with a wet saw to finish the edge of each row. 193 00:08:00,166 --> 00:08:02,833 We'll work our way from one end to the other. 194 00:08:02,900 --> 00:08:05,200 ♪♪ 195 00:08:05,266 --> 00:08:09,900 Doug Rose has advised people on walkways like this for decades. 196 00:08:09,966 --> 00:08:12,733 Hey, Doug. So, let's talk about the pavers we're using here. 197 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:14,900 Doug: What we have here is a clay brick paver. 198 00:08:14,966 --> 00:08:16,533 We call them authentic clay brick pavers 199 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:18,500 because they're made from clay and shale. 200 00:08:18,566 --> 00:08:20,766 They're designed for paving applications only. 201 00:08:20,833 --> 00:08:24,400 As you can see, there's the beveled edge and a spacer tab 202 00:08:24,466 --> 00:08:28,733 to allow for a sand joint and easy installation. 203 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:30,300 We're in Northern New Jersey here. 204 00:08:30,366 --> 00:08:33,233 You get a lot of freeze-thaw. These are laying in the ground. 205 00:08:33,300 --> 00:08:35,700 And they would tend to normally absorb a lot of moisture, 206 00:08:35,766 --> 00:08:38,333 but these are very dense. Low water absorption. 207 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:40,733 Actually, immune to deicing salt, as well, 208 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:42,633 so when you have to put down snow melt... 209 00:08:42,700 --> 00:08:44,666 Jenn: Oh, fantastic. Because that's a big, 210 00:08:44,733 --> 00:08:47,566 big deal here in this area of the country. 211 00:08:47,633 --> 00:08:49,900 So, I have a question for you, though. 212 00:08:49,966 --> 00:08:51,800 Let's talk about brick from a chimney 213 00:08:51,866 --> 00:08:54,566 because a lot of these bricks came down from the house. 214 00:08:54,633 --> 00:08:56,066 And a lot of people say, well, why don't we just 215 00:08:56,133 --> 00:08:58,300 repurpose and reuse these? 216 00:08:58,366 --> 00:09:01,100 Why would you or why wouldn't you use these for a walkway? 217 00:09:01,166 --> 00:09:02,733 Doug: That's a great question, Jenn. 218 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,266 Because why not reuse a brick that's already here on site? 219 00:09:06,333 --> 00:09:08,433 Um, it's really about the purpose of the brick 220 00:09:08,500 --> 00:09:10,800 and using the right material for the right application. 221 00:09:10,866 --> 00:09:12,766 As you can see, this was used probably 222 00:09:12,833 --> 00:09:16,600 in the chimney application, had mortar applied to it. 223 00:09:16,666 --> 00:09:18,800 Unfortunately, this is probably gonna have 224 00:09:18,866 --> 00:09:20,700 a very high water-absorption rate. 225 00:09:20,766 --> 00:09:23,400 It's probably not gonna survive very well in the ground. 226 00:09:23,466 --> 00:09:24,800 Jenn: Alright. So if they wanted to reuse 227 00:09:24,866 --> 00:09:27,200 these on site, they could make a fire pit in back or -- 228 00:09:27,266 --> 00:09:29,200 just anything vertical, make a little wall. 229 00:09:29,266 --> 00:09:30,766 Doug: Absolutely. Interior applications. 230 00:09:30,833 --> 00:09:32,266 A rustic wine cellar. 231 00:09:32,333 --> 00:09:35,666 Jenn: Yeah. Alright. Fantastic. Thanks for that information. 232 00:09:35,733 --> 00:09:38,200 I'm gonna go back to help these guys get this walkway in. 233 00:09:38,266 --> 00:09:39,766 Doug: Good luck. Have fun. Jenn: Alright. 234 00:09:39,833 --> 00:09:42,633 ♪♪ 235 00:09:42,700 --> 00:09:45,366 Kevin: We've got closed-cell insulation 236 00:09:45,433 --> 00:09:47,066 on the underside of the roof, but as I said, 237 00:09:47,133 --> 00:09:49,733 we're also gonna be blowing in another layer of insulation, 238 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:51,933 including a layer into these sidewalls, Zack. 239 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,533 And when I hear "blown in," I think cellulose, 240 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,233 but you've got something else up your sleeve? 241 00:09:56,300 --> 00:09:58,766 Or in a suitcase? Zack: Yeah, we are. 242 00:09:58,833 --> 00:10:02,900 We're actually using something called wood-fiber insulation. 243 00:10:02,966 --> 00:10:04,900 And it's exactly what it sounds like. 244 00:10:04,966 --> 00:10:08,100 Kevin: Okay. So, can I, like, pick a little piece out of it? 245 00:10:08,166 --> 00:10:10,100 Zack: Yeah. Go for it. Yeah. 246 00:10:10,166 --> 00:10:12,266 So that's just wood fibers treated with borate, 247 00:10:12,333 --> 00:10:16,200 which makes it resistant to fire and mold and mildew. 248 00:10:16,266 --> 00:10:18,200 Kevin: And where does the wood come from? 249 00:10:18,266 --> 00:10:19,566 Like, what are we talking about? 250 00:10:19,633 --> 00:10:22,100 Zack: So, this is a post-manufacturing product. 251 00:10:22,166 --> 00:10:23,600 You know, a tree is round, right? 252 00:10:23,666 --> 00:10:25,233 But they cut this dimensional lumber out of it. 253 00:10:25,300 --> 00:10:26,533 There's a lot of excess. 254 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,833 And that excess gets made into this. 255 00:10:28,900 --> 00:10:29,933 Kevin: Well, that's interesting. 256 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:31,766 So cellulose insulation is sort of, 257 00:10:31,833 --> 00:10:34,900 you know, paper ground up and turned into insulation. 258 00:10:34,966 --> 00:10:36,900 Now we've just got the straight wood turned into insulation. 259 00:10:36,966 --> 00:10:39,833 And in terms of performance, what is this getting 260 00:10:39,900 --> 00:10:41,800 in terms of R-value per inch? 261 00:10:41,866 --> 00:10:43,433 Zack: This is gonna be 3.8 per inch, 262 00:10:43,500 --> 00:10:45,033 which is comparable to cellulose. 263 00:10:45,100 --> 00:10:46,433 Kevin: Okay. 264 00:10:46,500 --> 00:10:49,566 And when I see wood in the wall, I'm thinking like, 265 00:10:49,633 --> 00:10:51,900 "Okay. What happens when it burns or not burns?" 266 00:10:51,966 --> 00:10:53,333 And what happens when it gets wet? 267 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,366 Zack: So when it gets wet, it's gonna dissipate 268 00:10:55,433 --> 00:10:58,800 that moisture over the whole area of the stud cavity 269 00:10:58,866 --> 00:11:00,900 better than a lot of other insulations. 270 00:11:00,966 --> 00:11:03,400 Obviously, if you had a rainstorm 271 00:11:03,466 --> 00:11:06,266 and a tree fell and a lot of water got into this, 272 00:11:06,333 --> 00:11:07,600 you would have to replace this insulation 273 00:11:07,666 --> 00:11:09,433 just like you would with any other insulation. 274 00:11:09,500 --> 00:11:11,166 Kevin: Gotcha. And if you're offering to prove 275 00:11:11,233 --> 00:11:12,766 that it's not gonna burn on us, 276 00:11:12,833 --> 00:11:14,300 I'll take you up on that one, for sure. 277 00:11:14,366 --> 00:11:16,300 Zack: Let's do it. Kevin: Alright. Whoa. Look out. 278 00:11:16,366 --> 00:11:18,900 Zack: Here we go. Kevin: Alright. Wait a second. 279 00:11:18,966 --> 00:11:21,433 So it's immediately turning to charred black. 280 00:11:21,500 --> 00:11:22,833 Zack: It chars, but you'll notice 281 00:11:22,900 --> 00:11:25,133 there's no -- there's no spread of the flame. 282 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:26,633 So I could hold that flame there forever, 283 00:11:26,700 --> 00:11:28,266 and it's not gonna travel. 284 00:11:28,333 --> 00:11:30,800 And especially -- remember, when this is in a stud cavity, 285 00:11:30,866 --> 00:11:34,533 there's no oxygen that can get in there. 286 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:36,033 Kevin: So you're telling me that no matter 287 00:11:36,100 --> 00:11:38,300 how long I hold this here, 288 00:11:38,366 --> 00:11:41,333 this is not going to ignite and it's not going to spread? 289 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,200 Zack: Correct. That borate's really doing its job 290 00:11:43,266 --> 00:11:45,400 on every fiber of the wood. Kevin: Alright. 291 00:11:45,466 --> 00:11:47,366 Well, I mean, that is impressive. 292 00:11:47,433 --> 00:11:50,600 I mean, we've got charring, but no ignition and no spread. 293 00:11:50,666 --> 00:11:53,566 The proof is in the torch, as they say. 294 00:11:53,633 --> 00:11:56,966 So help me out with -- Let's start with cost. 295 00:11:57,033 --> 00:11:58,466 And also, you know, I said it's new. 296 00:11:58,533 --> 00:12:00,966 I've never seen it before. What's its track record? 297 00:12:01,033 --> 00:12:03,800 Zack: So, this is about the same price as cellulose, 298 00:12:03,866 --> 00:12:07,400 so it's a sideways move in terms of switching from that product, 299 00:12:07,466 --> 00:12:09,266 which is sort of the most common blown-in. 300 00:12:09,333 --> 00:12:10,666 Kevin: Yeah. Zack: And although it's 301 00:12:10,733 --> 00:12:13,466 a brand-new product for this country -- 302 00:12:13,533 --> 00:12:15,933 it just started being made recently -- 303 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,266 um, this has a long track record in Europe, 304 00:12:18,333 --> 00:12:19,666 so I'm pretty confident 305 00:12:19,733 --> 00:12:21,433 that there's not gonna be any issues with it. 306 00:12:21,500 --> 00:12:23,333 Kevin: Okay. Sounds pretty good to me. 307 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,033 Alright. So let's talk about blown-in 308 00:12:25,100 --> 00:12:26,733 because I know you really like the process. 309 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:28,000 And why is that? Zack: I do. 310 00:12:28,066 --> 00:12:29,400 Let me -- Let's look at this wall, 311 00:12:29,466 --> 00:12:30,800 and maybe I can tell you why. 312 00:12:30,866 --> 00:12:33,900 So, obviously, there's a couple of common options. 313 00:12:33,966 --> 00:12:36,833 We have spray foam, and we have batt insulation. 314 00:12:36,900 --> 00:12:41,433 So think about installing batts around these obstructions here. 315 00:12:41,500 --> 00:12:43,533 And would you be able to fill all this 316 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:44,900 and cut around this? 317 00:12:44,966 --> 00:12:47,000 You're never gonna get that type of accuracy. 318 00:12:47,066 --> 00:12:50,600 So, then, spray foam is a great option for a retrofit like this 319 00:12:50,666 --> 00:12:52,200 'cause it'll fill all the crevices, 320 00:12:52,266 --> 00:12:55,100 but it'll actually fill in these crevices down here, 321 00:12:55,166 --> 00:12:57,200 and that'll push our WRB, 322 00:12:57,266 --> 00:12:59,233 that membrane on the outside of the house, out 323 00:12:59,300 --> 00:13:02,300 and create issues for the siding team. 324 00:13:02,366 --> 00:13:04,100 Kevin: I've heard you talk about this idea before, 325 00:13:04,166 --> 00:13:06,333 you know, that you're worried about installation, right? 326 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:07,533 And if it's harder to do, 327 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,100 it's probably not gonna be done right, 328 00:13:09,166 --> 00:13:11,000 in which case you're gonna have a diminished performance. 329 00:13:11,066 --> 00:13:13,300 And so you really like the fact that something like this 330 00:13:13,366 --> 00:13:14,566 takes that out of the equation. 331 00:13:14,633 --> 00:13:15,800 Zack: Exactly. You want to make it easy 332 00:13:15,866 --> 00:13:17,766 on the people working at the job, 333 00:13:17,833 --> 00:13:20,366 make it easy for them to do the right thing every time. 334 00:13:20,433 --> 00:13:22,500 Kevin: Okay. And are we ready to install somewhere? 335 00:13:22,566 --> 00:13:25,133 Zack: Yeah. Over here, we've got a wall that's ready to go. 336 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,500 Kevin: And, so, the process outside, similar to cellulose? 337 00:13:27,566 --> 00:13:29,833 Bags into a hopper that's gonna blow through a hose? 338 00:13:29,900 --> 00:13:31,333 Zack: Yeah. It's like a cube. 339 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:33,900 You break it up, and then you feed it into that hopper. 340 00:13:33,966 --> 00:13:35,600 [ Whirring ] 341 00:13:35,666 --> 00:13:38,766 Kevin: Tony, you ready to go? Tony: Yes. I'm ready. 342 00:13:38,833 --> 00:13:42,400 Zack: This is the same membrane you would put for cellulose 343 00:13:42,466 --> 00:13:44,300 or any sort of blown-in installation. 344 00:13:44,366 --> 00:13:45,800 And what it's gonna do 345 00:13:45,866 --> 00:13:48,366 is retain that as it's getting injected into the wall, 346 00:13:48,433 --> 00:13:51,200 so it's forced into all those nooks and crannies, 347 00:13:51,266 --> 00:13:53,966 and also we get the accurate density 348 00:13:54,033 --> 00:13:55,533 for the R-value we're targeting. 349 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:56,933 Kevin: And then his experience 350 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,600 is telling them how firm it needs to be? 351 00:13:59,666 --> 00:14:00,900 Zack: Exactly. Kevin: Right. 352 00:14:00,966 --> 00:14:02,033 And he doesn't even need to treat this. 353 00:14:02,100 --> 00:14:03,266 That won't fall out. Zack: Nope. 354 00:14:03,333 --> 00:14:04,633 You could actually remove this netting, 355 00:14:04,700 --> 00:14:05,900 and it would retain itself 356 00:14:05,966 --> 00:14:07,333 because all those fibers really link together. 357 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,133 Kevin: Very cool. And then just repeat the process 358 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,033 through all the bays. Zack: That's it. 359 00:14:11,100 --> 00:14:19,233 ♪♪ 360 00:14:19,300 --> 00:14:21,700 Kevin: Our basement has come a long way from the days 361 00:14:21,766 --> 00:14:23,566 when there was a coal chute down here. 362 00:14:23,633 --> 00:14:25,033 The original heating system 363 00:14:25,100 --> 00:14:27,066 were steam radiators run off of that coal 364 00:14:27,133 --> 00:14:29,066 and then converted at some point to oil, 365 00:14:29,133 --> 00:14:31,966 again to gas -- and that system was so inefficient 366 00:14:32,033 --> 00:14:33,600 that they had to add some heat pumps 367 00:14:33,666 --> 00:14:35,166 for a couple rooms that were too drafty. 368 00:14:35,233 --> 00:14:37,366 Well, now all of that has been replaced 369 00:14:37,433 --> 00:14:39,566 by a modern ducted heat-pump system. 370 00:14:39,633 --> 00:14:41,033 And, Chris, you guys installed it for us. 371 00:14:41,100 --> 00:14:42,366 Thank you for that. 372 00:14:42,433 --> 00:14:44,500 You've also gave us a fresh-air option, right? 373 00:14:44,566 --> 00:14:46,133 Chris: Sure. This is an HRV, 374 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:47,800 which is a heat recovery ventilator. 375 00:14:47,866 --> 00:14:49,800 Not to be confused with an ERV, 376 00:14:49,866 --> 00:14:51,433 which is an energy recovery ventilator. 377 00:14:51,500 --> 00:14:52,666 Kevin: Alright. I'm already confused. 378 00:14:52,733 --> 00:14:55,400 So the difference between ERV and HRV? 379 00:14:55,466 --> 00:14:57,200 Chris: So we're trying to bring in fresh air 380 00:14:57,266 --> 00:14:58,966 from the outside into the house, and we have to treat it 381 00:14:59,033 --> 00:15:01,133 for both humidity and temperature. 382 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,066 So, HRV will take care of temperature only. 383 00:15:04,133 --> 00:15:05,933 ERV will do humidity and temperature. 384 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:07,666 Kevin: And, so, in this house, 385 00:15:07,733 --> 00:15:10,966 why only the temperature are we worried about? 386 00:15:11,033 --> 00:15:12,633 Chris: Yeah. Great question. In our climate, 387 00:15:12,700 --> 00:15:14,066 in this house design, 388 00:15:14,133 --> 00:15:16,800 with the small amount of ventilation we need, 389 00:15:16,866 --> 00:15:19,100 HRV is just a more budget-friendly solution, 390 00:15:19,166 --> 00:15:21,466 and it does the job of introducing the fresh air. 391 00:15:21,533 --> 00:15:24,100 Kevin: Okay. Basic idea, though, is the same for both, 392 00:15:24,166 --> 00:15:25,933 if not just that little difference with humidity. 393 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:27,333 Walk me through it, how these work. 394 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,233 Chris: So this is -- this is a core 395 00:15:29,300 --> 00:15:30,666 where the air passes through. Kevin: Right. 396 00:15:30,733 --> 00:15:32,566 Chris: And you can see it's a metal core. 397 00:15:32,633 --> 00:15:34,533 Kevin: So I've seen these before. 398 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,800 Our guy Richard has shown me a bunch, and I've always 399 00:15:36,866 --> 00:15:40,866 seen them with sort of a soft fabric, not the fins. 400 00:15:40,933 --> 00:15:42,866 Is that the difference? Chris: That is the difference. 401 00:15:42,933 --> 00:15:46,200 So, the fabric will basically transfer humidity, moisture. 402 00:15:46,266 --> 00:15:48,400 This does not. Kevin: Ah. Okay. 403 00:15:48,466 --> 00:15:50,033 So only the temperature is actually going through 404 00:15:50,100 --> 00:15:51,266 those cores right there. 405 00:15:51,333 --> 00:15:53,233 I'll get this back in right here. 406 00:15:53,300 --> 00:15:55,300 And we can follow that airflow path. 407 00:15:55,366 --> 00:15:57,833 You're pulling in fresh air from outside? 408 00:15:57,900 --> 00:15:59,000 Chris: Exactly. Right here. 409 00:15:59,066 --> 00:16:00,433 We pull in the air from the outside. 410 00:16:00,500 --> 00:16:03,300 It's coming in through here and going this way. 411 00:16:03,366 --> 00:16:04,666 And it's going through this duct 412 00:16:04,733 --> 00:16:07,133 and being introduced into our heat-pump air handler. 413 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,133 Kevin: Gotcha. And then when it goes out... 414 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,366 Chris: It goes out from the heat-pump air handler, 415 00:16:11,433 --> 00:16:13,666 it comes back through here, and goes down this way. 416 00:16:13,733 --> 00:16:15,900 So the two air streams cross paths, 417 00:16:15,966 --> 00:16:17,566 and then it's exhausted out of the house. 418 00:16:17,633 --> 00:16:19,766 Kevin: Right. And what I have learned from Richard is 419 00:16:19,833 --> 00:16:21,866 cross but don't touch. 420 00:16:21,933 --> 00:16:23,300 So they're actually not mixing here. 421 00:16:23,366 --> 00:16:24,666 Chris: Correct. Kevin: This is just where 422 00:16:24,733 --> 00:16:26,800 the heat from the two different air temperatures 423 00:16:26,866 --> 00:16:28,633 swaps from one to the other. Chris: Absolutely. 424 00:16:28,700 --> 00:16:31,133 Kevin: Gotcha. And the cost of something like this 425 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:32,966 to add the system to a house like this? 426 00:16:33,033 --> 00:16:34,366 Chris: The whole system, 427 00:16:34,433 --> 00:16:36,666 with the ductwork installed, is about $2,500. 428 00:16:36,733 --> 00:16:38,366 Kevin: Ah. So that's not too bad, 429 00:16:38,433 --> 00:16:39,800 especially if you're talking about indoor air quality. 430 00:16:39,866 --> 00:16:41,333 Chris: Oh, yeah. Kevin: Which is important. 431 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,400 We know -- I just looked at the installation package here. 432 00:16:43,466 --> 00:16:46,300 We saw that the house was wrapped in a membrane, 433 00:16:46,366 --> 00:16:48,433 and then we packed the stud bays full of insulation. 434 00:16:48,500 --> 00:16:50,833 We tried to tighten this up as much as we could. 435 00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:53,166 That limits natural air infiltration. 436 00:16:53,233 --> 00:16:54,700 Chris: Yeah, absolutely. You got a tight house. 437 00:16:54,766 --> 00:16:56,700 You've got all kinds of stuff happening inside, 438 00:16:56,766 --> 00:16:59,833 from showers to cooking to chemicals from cleaning. 439 00:16:59,900 --> 00:17:01,100 You want to exchange that air. 440 00:17:01,166 --> 00:17:02,733 You want to introduce outside air in. 441 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:04,500 You want to get that stale air out. 442 00:17:04,566 --> 00:17:07,200 It's for the health of the house and the occupants of the house. 443 00:17:07,266 --> 00:17:08,700 Kevin: Pretty common these days... 444 00:17:08,766 --> 00:17:10,533 Chris: Oh, yeah, it should be a necessity 445 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:12,600 pretty much anytime you build a tight house. 446 00:17:12,666 --> 00:17:14,300 Kevin: Good. Alright. Well, we're glad you're on the job, 447 00:17:14,366 --> 00:17:15,566 and I appreciate the explanation. 448 00:17:15,633 --> 00:17:17,333 Chris: Thank you. Kevin: Thanks, Chris. 449 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,866 ♪♪ 450 00:17:19,933 --> 00:17:23,033 Now that the walls are insulated, wallboard is next. 451 00:17:23,100 --> 00:17:25,666 And right after that, we've got the interior trim. 452 00:17:25,733 --> 00:17:27,033 Now, you may recall that this house 453 00:17:27,100 --> 00:17:28,566 was taken back to the studs, 454 00:17:28,633 --> 00:17:31,133 so we have got a clean slate to work with. 455 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,966 And to help us pick the period trim for this house, 456 00:17:34,033 --> 00:17:35,766 we're leaning on our architect, Dan Kopec. 457 00:17:35,833 --> 00:17:37,200 Dan, good to see you. Dan: Hey, Kevin. 458 00:17:37,266 --> 00:17:38,733 Great to see you. Kevin: Yes. 459 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,866 So, this is a tough problem for a lot of people, picking trim. 460 00:17:41,933 --> 00:17:43,333 I mean, there are so many choices. 461 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,533 Dan: It is. And because, as you said, 462 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,533 we didn't have any original profiles 463 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:48,800 that were worth salvaging. Kevin: Right. 464 00:17:48,866 --> 00:17:50,066 Dan: And this house had gone through a bunch 465 00:17:50,133 --> 00:17:51,533 of renovations over its time. 466 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,366 And so there was inconsistency between rooms. 467 00:17:53,433 --> 00:17:54,566 Kevin: A little bit of this, a little bit of that. 468 00:17:54,633 --> 00:17:56,366 Dan: Right. And so we're left 469 00:17:56,433 --> 00:17:58,300 with some rules of classical architecture 470 00:17:58,366 --> 00:17:59,833 that are gonna give us some guidance. 471 00:17:59,900 --> 00:18:01,133 Kevin: I'd love to hear the rules. 472 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:02,866 Dan: So let's start with the baseboard. 473 00:18:02,933 --> 00:18:05,066 And we're dealing with a first floor that's 9-foot ceiling. 474 00:18:05,133 --> 00:18:07,000 Nice, tall spaces. Kevin: Yeah, sure. 475 00:18:07,066 --> 00:18:08,600 Dan: Regardless of the height of your room, 476 00:18:08,666 --> 00:18:10,166 you want the baseboard to be 477 00:18:10,233 --> 00:18:11,833 about 7% of the height of the room. 478 00:18:11,900 --> 00:18:14,000 Kevin: Oh. So just do the math. Dan: Correct. 479 00:18:14,066 --> 00:18:17,366 So at 9 feet, we want to end up at about 7.5 inches. 480 00:18:17,433 --> 00:18:19,233 We ended up hedging that a little bit higher 481 00:18:19,300 --> 00:18:20,900 because it's a Victorian 482 00:18:20,966 --> 00:18:22,933 and it wants a little bit more grandeur. 483 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:24,400 So we started with a 1x8, 484 00:18:24,466 --> 00:18:26,500 which, as you know, measures a true 7 1/4". 485 00:18:26,566 --> 00:18:27,900 Kevin: Yeah. Dan: And then added 486 00:18:27,966 --> 00:18:29,866 a base cap to that. Kevin: Okay. 487 00:18:29,933 --> 00:18:31,166 Dan: And so we end up with 488 00:18:31,233 --> 00:18:34,500 just over that 7% of the room for the base. 489 00:18:34,566 --> 00:18:37,466 Kevin: Okay, so you start at the base and then you go where? 490 00:18:37,533 --> 00:18:39,500 Dan: And then we're gonna go to the windows and doors. 491 00:18:39,566 --> 00:18:41,666 So we're gonna case those openings, right? 492 00:18:41,733 --> 00:18:45,433 The casing on those windows and doors wants to be 493 00:18:45,500 --> 00:18:50,033 about half the width of the height of the baseboard. 494 00:18:50,100 --> 00:18:52,700 Kevin: Oh, interesting. So there's some correlation 495 00:18:52,766 --> 00:18:54,700 between this and this in terms of scale. 496 00:18:54,766 --> 00:18:58,566 Dan: Scale-wise, yes, and also the profile. 497 00:18:58,633 --> 00:19:02,000 So, you see this casing has a backband to it. 498 00:19:02,066 --> 00:19:04,000 Kevin: Right here. So there's a feed, a flat part, 499 00:19:04,066 --> 00:19:05,666 and you would typically call this a backband. 500 00:19:05,733 --> 00:19:07,966 Dan: Correct. And if I take the cap off of this base, 501 00:19:08,033 --> 00:19:10,633 we're gonna get that same shadow lines here 502 00:19:10,700 --> 00:19:13,933 that we're going to see around those door and window casings. 503 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:15,866 Kevin: So that when the two are next to each other -- 504 00:19:15,933 --> 00:19:17,466 I'll give that back to you to put over there. 505 00:19:17,533 --> 00:19:19,100 When the two are next to each other... 506 00:19:19,166 --> 00:19:21,366 Dan: We end up with a nice interface there. 507 00:19:21,433 --> 00:19:23,200 Kevin: And then what's the next thing you're thinking about? 508 00:19:23,266 --> 00:19:25,366 Dan: We end at the crown. I think there's a sample of it over there. 509 00:19:25,433 --> 00:19:27,700 Kevin: I'll grab this here. 510 00:19:27,766 --> 00:19:30,033 [ Grunts ] So walk me through these pieces. 511 00:19:30,100 --> 00:19:33,366 Dan: Sure. Crown molding is about terminating the wall. 512 00:19:33,433 --> 00:19:35,733 And so what we chose to do here 513 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,866 is build this out of a couple pieces of -- of trim. 514 00:19:38,933 --> 00:19:41,200 We've got a classic crown here 515 00:19:41,266 --> 00:19:43,766 with a bead that's appropriate to the style of the home 516 00:19:43,833 --> 00:19:46,933 and that cove that gives us the terminating shape of the crown. 517 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:48,200 But then we took a piece of baseboard 518 00:19:48,266 --> 00:19:49,766 and put it on its side... Kevin: Gotcha. 519 00:19:49,833 --> 00:19:52,533 Dan: ...to get that extra shadow line on the ceiling. 520 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:54,800 The third piece of this crown is the picture rail, 521 00:19:54,866 --> 00:19:57,200 so that you could hang a wire with a hook 522 00:19:57,266 --> 00:19:58,733 and display your artwork in the house. 523 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,833 Kevin: So I assume the homeowners absolutely love this 524 00:20:01,900 --> 00:20:04,900 because this is beaut-- 9-foot-high ceilings. 525 00:20:04,966 --> 00:20:06,266 This is going to look amazing. 526 00:20:06,333 --> 00:20:07,600 Dan: It's a great way to terminate the wall. 527 00:20:07,666 --> 00:20:09,733 Unfortunately, it's also pretty expensive. 528 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:11,000 Kevin: Oh. So we're not going with this? 529 00:20:11,066 --> 00:20:12,200 Dan: No. Kevin: Oh. Okay. 530 00:20:12,266 --> 00:20:13,666 So what are we going with? 531 00:20:13,733 --> 00:20:16,533 Dan: This is the piece of crown from that build-up. 532 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:18,233 We decided that there was enough detail 533 00:20:18,300 --> 00:20:20,766 in this crown to just use the crown, right? 534 00:20:20,833 --> 00:20:22,600 We get that bead. We have the cove. 535 00:20:22,666 --> 00:20:23,800 Kevin: They look terrific. 536 00:20:23,866 --> 00:20:25,266 Dan: It really terminates the wall nicely. 537 00:20:25,333 --> 00:20:27,133 Kevin: This is real world. Right? People have budgets. 538 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:28,833 And they have a wish list, and then they have a reality. 539 00:20:28,900 --> 00:20:30,400 So they end up with this. 540 00:20:30,466 --> 00:20:32,033 Dan: That's always a really important part of the job -- 541 00:20:32,100 --> 00:20:33,633 to recognize that there is a budget. 542 00:20:33,700 --> 00:20:37,133 Kevin: I'm looking at a second casing option right there. 543 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,200 Dan: Sure, this profile is a little different, 544 00:20:39,266 --> 00:20:41,133 but I think it's helpful for us to see 545 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,966 that, traditionally, these window and door casings 546 00:20:44,033 --> 00:20:45,733 likely would have also been built up. 547 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,400 You would have had flat casing with the bead cut in. 548 00:20:49,466 --> 00:20:51,366 Kevin: So flat stock here. This is cut in. 549 00:20:51,433 --> 00:20:53,100 Could have been applied, but you're thinking most likely 550 00:20:53,166 --> 00:20:55,100 just cut into this piece. Dan: Correct. 551 00:20:55,166 --> 00:20:58,333 And then to get that heft, 552 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,566 you'd have a backband applied separately. 553 00:21:01,633 --> 00:21:05,900 We still do this, but there's 10% cost difference 554 00:21:05,966 --> 00:21:10,000 to get it all pre-assembled in one piece. 555 00:21:10,066 --> 00:21:11,400 Kevin: Oh, interesting. So this is what -- 556 00:21:11,466 --> 00:21:14,933 So now we get the bead, the flat, and the built-up here. 557 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:16,966 But instead of out of two or maybe three pieces, 558 00:21:17,033 --> 00:21:18,633 it's all cut out of a single piece. 559 00:21:18,700 --> 00:21:19,966 Dan: Correct. 560 00:21:20,033 --> 00:21:24,066 So this piece -- 10% more than buying it separate. 561 00:21:24,133 --> 00:21:26,766 But from a labor perspective, carpenter's -- 562 00:21:26,833 --> 00:21:28,966 He's doing it once. He's going around those windows 563 00:21:29,033 --> 00:21:32,266 and doors one time, not two. Kevin: Gotcha. Okay. 564 00:21:32,333 --> 00:21:34,433 So, if you can come to a place like this 565 00:21:34,500 --> 00:21:36,600 and they can make two pieces into one... 566 00:21:36,666 --> 00:21:38,766 Dan: Right. I know you're thinking about this, right? 567 00:21:38,833 --> 00:21:40,166 Kevin: Why not a three -- 568 00:21:40,233 --> 00:21:42,466 Why not three pieces turned into one piece of base? 569 00:21:42,533 --> 00:21:45,400 Dan: Well, a couple things. First, this piece of 1x8 570 00:21:45,466 --> 00:21:48,300 is simple for the carpenters to go and install around the room. 571 00:21:48,366 --> 00:21:50,366 And even though we've put new wood floors 572 00:21:50,433 --> 00:21:52,000 throughout the home, 573 00:21:52,066 --> 00:21:54,200 there's going to be some deviation in that floor. 574 00:21:54,266 --> 00:21:55,633 Kevin: That's a very unforgiving seam. 575 00:21:55,700 --> 00:21:57,033 Dan: Very unforgiving. 576 00:21:57,100 --> 00:22:01,266 And so the shoe is gonna help us take up that deviation. 577 00:22:01,333 --> 00:22:04,533 And then when we apply that base cap, 578 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:06,066 we're gonna get the same ability 579 00:22:06,133 --> 00:22:07,900 to take up any deviation up here, 580 00:22:07,966 --> 00:22:09,300 and that joint is gonna be 581 00:22:09,366 --> 00:22:11,133 concealed in that -- in that shadow line there. 582 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,900 Kevin: All those shadow lines help hide any imperfections 583 00:22:13,966 --> 00:22:15,400 on the walls and floors. Dan: Right. 584 00:22:15,466 --> 00:22:17,500 And speak appropriately to the style of the home. 585 00:22:17,566 --> 00:22:19,766 Kevin: Awesome. Well, that's why we work with a pro like you 586 00:22:19,833 --> 00:22:21,100 and we come to a place like this 587 00:22:21,166 --> 00:22:22,766 that's got the options and the solutions. 588 00:22:22,833 --> 00:22:23,966 So thank you, Dan. Appreciate it. 589 00:22:24,033 --> 00:22:25,500 Dan: Thank you, Kevin. Kevin: Alright. 590 00:22:25,566 --> 00:22:27,566 Well, next time, we are gonna see that trim package go up 591 00:22:27,633 --> 00:22:30,033 and we're gonna see how Zack and Kalen install it. 592 00:22:30,100 --> 00:22:31,366 It's kind of a unique process. 593 00:22:31,433 --> 00:22:34,133 We'll also see some tile and some tree work. 594 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:35,633 So until then, I'm Kevin O'Connor... 595 00:22:35,700 --> 00:22:37,233 Dan: And I'm Dan Kopec. Kevin: ...for "This Old House" 596 00:22:37,300 --> 00:22:39,400 down here in New Jersey. 597 00:22:41,833 --> 00:22:44,466 Kevin: Next time on "This Old House"... 598 00:22:44,533 --> 00:22:46,800 Jenn: While the gas lanterns and bluestone sidewalks 599 00:22:46,866 --> 00:22:49,366 really give Glen Ridge that old-world charm, 600 00:22:49,433 --> 00:22:51,800 it's the mature trees that accentuate 601 00:22:51,866 --> 00:22:53,600 that idyllic setting. 602 00:22:53,666 --> 00:22:55,900 Kevin: Floor tile is porcelain, it looks like? 603 00:22:55,966 --> 00:22:57,333 Man: Porcelain. Kevin: What is that pattern? 604 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,433 Man: So this is a two-piece star-and-cross pattern. 605 00:23:00,500 --> 00:23:02,366 Kevin: Very nice. Okay. 606 00:23:02,433 --> 00:23:05,000 Tom: And today, we're gonna be installing base-cap moulding -- 607 00:23:05,066 --> 00:23:07,833 and we need one that bends.