1 00:00:15,115 --> 00:00:23,188 >> DRIVING INTO THAT PROPERTY, IT JUST HIT ME LIKE A TON OF 2 00:00:23,390 --> 00:00:28,527 IT JUST HIT ME LIKE A TON OF BRICKS HOW THAT WAS JUST THE 3 00:00:28,729 --> 00:00:33,265 BRICKS HOW THAT WAS JUST THE PERFECT PLACE. 4 00:00:33,467 --> 00:00:34,333 PERFECT PLACE. PERFECT PLACE FOR A MURDER 5 00:00:34,535 --> 00:00:34,867 PERFECT PLACE FOR A MURDER >> HOW DO YOU LIVE WITH -- 6 00:00:35,069 --> 00:00:35,901 >> HOW DO YOU LIVE WITH -- WITHOUT HER? 7 00:00:36,103 --> 00:00:36,502 WITHOUT HER? I MEAN, YOUR PARENTS ARE YOUR 8 00:00:36,704 --> 00:00:37,469 I MEAN, YOUR PARENTS ARE YOUR WORLD. 9 00:00:37,671 --> 00:00:38,504 WORLD. >> NOBODY EXPECTED A MOTHER OF 10 00:00:38,706 --> 00:00:39,571 >> NOBODY EXPECTED A MOTHER OF THREE TO BE MURDERED SLEEPING IN 11 00:00:39,773 --> 00:00:40,639 THREE TO BE MURDERED SLEEPING IN HER HOME 12 00:00:40,841 --> 00:00:41,673 HER HOME >> WE CALLED THE USUAL SUSPECTS, 13 00:00:41,875 --> 00:00:43,442 >> WE CALLED THE USUAL SUSPECTS, HER HUSBAND. 14 00:00:43,644 --> 00:00:43,976 HER HUSBAND. THEY WERE GOING THROUGH A 15 00:00:44,178 --> 00:00:44,877 THEY WERE GOING THROUGH A CONTENTIOUS DIVORCE. 16 00:00:45,079 --> 00:00:47,146 CONTENTIOUS DIVORCE. >> Reporter: YOU'VE GOT A MAN 17 00:00:47,348 --> 00:00:48,047 >> Reporter: YOU'VE GOT A MAN WHO'S THERE ON THE PROPERTY WHEN 18 00:00:48,249 --> 00:00:49,648 WHO'S THERE ON THE PROPERTY WHEN SHE'S BEING MURDERED 19 00:00:49,850 --> 00:00:50,682 SHE'S BEING MURDERED >> WE LOOKED INTENSELY AT HIM. 20 00:00:50,884 --> 00:00:53,352 >> WE LOOKED INTENSELY AT HIM. >> WE KNEW FROM THE GET-GO WE 21 00:00:53,554 --> 00:00:54,486 >> WE KNEW FROM THE GET-GO WE WANTED TO BRING IN HER SISTER. 22 00:00:54,688 --> 00:00:55,521 WANTED TO BRING IN HER SISTER. WAS SHE INVOLVED 23 00:00:55,723 --> 00:00:59,391 WAS SHE INVOLVED >> THERE WAS JEALOUSY AND 24 00:00:59,593 --> 00:01:00,025 >> THERE WAS JEALOUSY AND COMPETITION BETWEEN THE SISTERS. 25 00:01:00,027 --> 00:01:02,561 COMPETITION BETWEEN THE SISTERS. >> WE JUST THOUGHT SOMEBODY'S 26 00:01:02,763 --> 00:01:03,095 >> WE JUST THOUGHT SOMEBODY'S GONNA TALK 27 00:01:03,297 --> 00:01:04,696 GONNA TALK >> Reporter: WHO KILLED THIS 28 00:01:04,898 --> 00:01:06,065 >> Reporter: WHO KILLED THIS MOTHER OF THREE? 29 00:01:06,267 --> 00:01:08,600 MOTHER OF THREE? THE MYSTERY THAT TOOK ALMOST 14 30 00:01:08,802 --> 00:01:10,202 THE MYSTERY THAT TOOK ALMOST 14 YEARS TO SOLVE - 31 00:01:10,404 --> 00:01:10,803 YEARS TO SOLVE - >> THAT IS ONE POWERFUL SECRET 32 00:01:11,005 --> 00:01:11,904 >> THAT IS ONE POWERFUL SECRET >> ABSOLUTELY. 33 00:01:12,106 --> 00:01:12,805 >> ABSOLUTELY. >> THAT KINDA HITS YOU OUT OF 34 00:01:13,007 --> 00:01:15,007 >> THAT KINDA HITS YOU OUT OF NOWHERE. 35 00:01:15,209 --> 00:01:17,142 NOWHERE. I WAS ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED 36 00:01:17,344 --> 00:01:18,210 I WAS ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED I MEAN HEARTBROKEN 37 00:01:18,412 --> 00:01:26,985 I MEAN HEARTBROKEN >> I'M LESTER HOLT, AND THIS IS 38 00:01:27,187 --> 00:01:28,587 >> I'M LESTER HOLT, AND THIS IS "DATELINE. 39 00:01:28,789 --> 00:01:39,098 "DATELINE. HERE'S ANDREA CANNING WITH 40 00:01:39,300 --> 00:01:41,200 HERE'S ANDREA CANNING WITH "WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY." 41 00:01:41,402 --> 00:01:42,801 "WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY." >> Reporter: ROCKFORD, MICHIGAN, 42 00:01:43,003 --> 00:01:44,603 >> Reporter: ROCKFORD, MICHIGAN, PERCHED ON THE ROGUE RIVER, JUST 43 00:01:44,805 --> 00:01:47,005 PERCHED ON THE ROGUE RIVER, JUST NORTH OF GRAND RAPIDS, IS AN 44 00:01:47,207 --> 00:01:48,040 NORTH OF GRAND RAPIDS, IS AN OUTDOORSMAN'S PARADISE 45 00:01:48,242 --> 00:01:49,641 OUTDOORSMAN'S PARADISE BUT THIS PEACE IS FRAGILE, 46 00:01:49,843 --> 00:01:51,743 BUT THIS PEACE IS FRAGILE, EASILY PIERCED BY ONE TROUBLING 47 00:01:51,945 --> 00:01:53,345 EASILY PIERCED BY ONE TROUBLING PHONE CALL 48 00:01:53,547 --> 00:01:55,180 PHONE CALL THE KIND OF CALL THAT OFTEN 49 00:01:55,382 --> 00:01:57,349 THE KIND OF CALL THAT OFTEN BEGINS A STORY LIKE THIS 50 00:01:57,551 --> 00:01:58,083 BEGINS A STORY LIKE THIS >> RENEE DIDN'T MEET UP WITH A 51 00:01:58,085 --> 00:02:01,253 >> RENEE DIDN'T MEET UP WITH A FRIEND THAT SHE WAS SUPPOSED TO 52 00:02:01,455 --> 00:02:03,388 FRIEND THAT SHE WAS SUPPOSED TO GO TO A CRAFT FAIR WITH. 53 00:02:03,590 --> 00:02:05,491 GO TO A CRAFT FAIR WITH. >> Reporter: IT WAS A SATURDAY 54 00:02:05,693 --> 00:02:08,393 >> Reporter: IT WAS A SATURDAY AFTERNOON IN THE SUMMER OF 2006. 55 00:02:08,595 --> 00:02:09,194 AFTERNOON IN THE SUMMER OF 2006. >> SO THIS FRIEND CALLED RENEE'S 56 00:02:09,396 --> 00:02:11,296 >> SO THIS FRIEND CALLED RENEE'S DAD AND SAID, "RENEE NEVER 57 00:02:11,498 --> 00:02:13,398 DAD AND SAID, "RENEE NEVER DOESN'T SHOW UP. 58 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:14,500 DOESN'T SHOW UP. SOMETHING -- SOMETHING'S WRONG." 59 00:02:14,702 --> 00:02:15,534 SOMETHING -- SOMETHING'S WRONG." >> Reporter: RENEE PAGEL'S 60 00:02:15,736 --> 00:02:17,102 >> Reporter: RENEE PAGEL'S FATHER JUMPED IN HIS CAR AND 61 00:02:17,304 --> 00:02:18,704 FATHER JUMPED IN HIS CAR AND DROVE OVER TO HIS DAUGHTER'S 62 00:02:18,906 --> 00:02:19,738 DROVE OVER TO HIS DAUGHTER'S HOUSE. 63 00:02:19,940 --> 00:02:21,340 HOUSE. WHAT HE FOUND INSIDE HER BEDROOM 64 00:02:21,542 --> 00:02:23,342 WHAT HE FOUND INSIDE HER BEDROOM WAS SOMETHING NO PARENT SHOULD 65 00:02:23,544 --> 00:02:26,145 WAS SOMETHING NO PARENT SHOULD EVER HAVE TO SEE 66 00:02:26,347 --> 00:02:29,815 EVER HAVE TO SEE >> EMERGENCY, CAN I HELP YOU 67 00:02:30,017 --> 00:02:31,383 >> EMERGENCY, CAN I HELP YOU >> UH, MY DAUGHTER -- WE JUST 68 00:02:31,585 --> 00:02:33,485 >> UH, MY DAUGHTER -- WE JUST FOUND HER IN BED, AND SHE'S GOT 69 00:02:33,687 --> 00:02:34,553 FOUND HER IN BED, AND SHE'S GOT A LASH ON HER ARM AND, UH, SHE'S 70 00:02:34,755 --> 00:02:35,621 A LASH ON HER ARM AND, UH, SHE'S ALL BLOODY 71 00:02:35,823 --> 00:02:36,655 ALL BLOODY >> SHE'S NOT CONSCIOUS 72 00:02:36,857 --> 00:02:38,891 >> SHE'S NOT CONSCIOUS >> SHE'S COLD -- SHE'S COLD. 73 00:02:39,093 --> 00:02:39,958 >> SHE'S COLD -- SHE'S COLD. >> IS SHE BREATHING? 74 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:41,460 >> IS SHE BREATHING? >> NO, I DON'T THINK SO. 75 00:02:41,662 --> 00:02:42,494 >> NO, I DON'T THINK SO. >> Reporter: 41-YEAR-OLD 76 00:02:42,696 --> 00:02:44,096 >> Reporter: 41-YEAR-OLD RENEE PAGEL WAS DEAD 77 00:02:44,298 --> 00:02:45,664 RENEE PAGEL WAS DEAD HER FATHER TRIED TO MAKE SENSE 78 00:02:45,866 --> 00:02:47,299 HER FATHER TRIED TO MAKE SENSE OF WHAT HE WAS SEEING. 79 00:02:47,501 --> 00:02:48,333 OF WHAT HE WAS SEEING. >> SHE'S COLD TO THE TOUCH 80 00:02:48,535 --> 00:02:49,935 >> SHE'S COLD TO THE TOUCH >> YEAH, I THINK SHE'S -- I 81 00:02:50,137 --> 00:02:51,136 >> YEAH, I THINK SHE'S -- I THINK SHE'S GONE 82 00:02:51,338 --> 00:02:52,571 THINK SHE'S GONE >> OKAY, SIR, WE'LL BE ON THE 83 00:02:52,773 --> 00:02:56,808 >> OKAY, SIR, WE'LL BE ON THE WAY. 84 00:02:57,010 --> 00:02:58,544 WAY. >> Reporter: ON HIS WAY WAS 85 00:02:58,746 --> 00:02:59,144 >> Reporter: ON HIS WAY WAS DETECTIVE E.J. JOHNSON OF THE 86 00:02:59,346 --> 00:03:01,180 DETECTIVE E.J. JOHNSON OF THE KENT COUNTY SHERIFF'S 87 00:03:01,382 --> 00:03:01,747 KENT COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT 88 00:03:01,949 --> 00:03:02,781 DEPARTMENT >> I THINK HE WAS JUST SHOCKED, 89 00:03:02,983 --> 00:03:03,849 >> I THINK HE WAS JUST SHOCKED, OBVIOUSLY, TO FIND HIS DAUGHTER 90 00:03:04,051 --> 00:03:04,883 OBVIOUSLY, TO FIND HIS DAUGHTER LAYING IN THIS BED 91 00:03:05,085 --> 00:03:06,485 LAYING IN THIS BED >> Reporter: AT FIRST, HER 92 00:03:06,687 --> 00:03:07,586 >> Reporter: AT FIRST, HER FATHER WONDERED IF IT WAS A 93 00:03:07,788 --> 00:03:09,154 FATHER WONDERED IF IT WAS A MEDICAL COMPLICATION 94 00:03:09,356 --> 00:03:10,222 MEDICAL COMPLICATION HE TOLD AUTHORITIES RENEE WAS 95 00:03:10,424 --> 00:03:12,858 HE TOLD AUTHORITIES RENEE WAS RECOVERING FROM MAJOR SURGERY. 96 00:03:13,060 --> 00:03:17,563 RECOVERING FROM MAJOR SURGERY. THE STORY BEHIND THAT OPERATION 97 00:03:17,765 --> 00:03:19,164 THE STORY BEHIND THAT OPERATION WILL TELL YOU A LOT ABOUT HER. 98 00:03:19,366 --> 00:03:20,766 WILL TELL YOU A LOT ABOUT HER. RENEE WAS A NURSE AND LOVED 99 00:03:20,968 --> 00:03:23,635 RENEE WAS A NURSE AND LOVED NURSING SO MUCH, SHE DECIDED TO 100 00:03:23,837 --> 00:03:25,537 NURSING SO MUCH, SHE DECIDED TO TEACH IT 101 00:03:25,739 --> 00:03:26,572 TEACH IT SHE NOTICED ONE OF HER STUDENTS, 102 00:03:26,774 --> 00:03:27,606 SHE NOTICED ONE OF HER STUDENTS, CAITLIN SALLIOTTE, HAD TAKEN A 103 00:03:27,808 --> 00:03:29,208 CAITLIN SALLIOTTE, HAD TAKEN A PARTICULAR INTEREST IN KIDNEY 104 00:03:29,410 --> 00:03:30,776 PARTICULAR INTEREST IN KIDNEY DISEASE. 105 00:03:30,978 --> 00:03:32,377 DISEASE. >> MY DAD HAD BEEN DIAGNOSED AND 106 00:03:32,579 --> 00:03:34,479 >> MY DAD HAD BEEN DIAGNOSED AND HAD KIDNEY FAILURE 107 00:03:34,681 --> 00:03:36,815 HAD KIDNEY FAILURE AND I JUST WANTED TO KNOW AS 108 00:03:37,017 --> 00:03:38,183 AND I JUST WANTED TO KNOW AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE ON IT 109 00:03:38,185 --> 00:03:39,251 MUCH AS POSSIBLE ON IT >> Reporter: RENEE LEARNED THAT 110 00:03:39,453 --> 00:03:40,852 >> Reporter: RENEE LEARNED THAT CAITLIN'S DAD WAS A ON A WAITING 111 00:03:41,054 --> 00:03:41,887 CAITLIN'S DAD WAS A ON A WAITING LIST FOR A NEW KIDNEY AND, OUT 112 00:03:42,089 --> 00:03:44,756 LIST FOR A NEW KIDNEY AND, OUT OF THE BLUE, ASKED FOR HIS 113 00:03:44,958 --> 00:03:50,929 OF THE BLUE, ASKED FOR HIS NUMBER 114 00:03:51,131 --> 00:03:51,463 NUMBER >> ARE YOU THINKING, "WHY? 115 00:03:51,665 --> 00:03:52,197 >> ARE YOU THINKING, "WHY? >> WHY 116 00:03:52,199 --> 00:03:53,232 >> WHY WHY DOES SHE WANT TO KNOW THIS 117 00:03:53,434 --> 00:03:54,299 WHY DOES SHE WANT TO KNOW THIS AND SHE SAID SHE WANTED TO SEE 118 00:03:54,501 --> 00:03:55,367 AND SHE SAID SHE WANTED TO SEE IF SHE COULD BE A POSSIBLE 119 00:03:55,569 --> 00:03:56,401 IF SHE COULD BE A POSSIBLE MATCH. 120 00:03:56,603 --> 00:03:57,436 MATCH. >> Reporter: WHAT IN THE WORLD 121 00:03:57,638 --> 00:03:58,604 >> Reporter: WHAT IN THE WORLD WERE YOU THINKING WHEN SHE SAID 122 00:03:58,806 --> 00:04:00,105 WERE YOU THINKING WHEN SHE SAID THAT TO YOU? 123 00:04:00,307 --> 00:04:01,139 THAT TO YOU? >> TOTAL SHOCK 124 00:04:01,341 --> 00:04:02,207 >> TOTAL SHOCK REALLY SHOCKED 125 00:04:02,209 --> 00:04:03,809 REALLY SHOCKED I THINK I RAN AND CALLED MY DAD 126 00:04:04,011 --> 00:04:04,443 I THINK I RAN AND CALLED MY DAD ON HIS -- ON THE BUS, SCHOOL BUS 127 00:04:04,645 --> 00:04:06,044 ON HIS -- ON THE BUS, SCHOOL BUS HEADING BACK TO MY SCHOOL, 128 00:04:06,246 --> 00:04:06,979 HEADING BACK TO MY SCHOOL, CALLING HIM AND LETTING HIM 129 00:04:07,181 --> 00:04:08,046 CALLING HIM AND LETTING HIM KNOW 130 00:04:08,248 --> 00:04:09,114 KNOW >> Reporter: YOU PROBABLY HAVE 131 00:04:09,316 --> 00:04:10,716 >> Reporter: YOU PROBABLY HAVE TO PINCH YOURSELF -- THAT 132 00:04:10,918 --> 00:04:12,284 TO PINCH YOURSELF -- THAT SOMEBODY WOULD DO THAT 133 00:04:12,486 --> 00:04:15,454 SOMEBODY WOULD DO THAT >> YEAH, A COMPLETE STRANGER TO 134 00:04:15,656 --> 00:04:16,521 >> YEAH, A COMPLETE STRANGER TO MY DAD 135 00:04:16,723 --> 00:04:17,556 MY DAD A COMPLETE STRANGER WOULD OFFER 136 00:04:17,758 --> 00:04:19,891 A COMPLETE STRANGER WOULD OFFER UP PART OF HERSELF FOR HIM 137 00:04:20,093 --> 00:04:21,793 UP PART OF HERSELF FOR HIM >> Reporter: TO SAVE HIM 138 00:04:21,995 --> 00:04:23,929 >> Reporter: TO SAVE HIM >> TO SAVE HIM 139 00:04:24,131 --> 00:04:26,031 >> TO SAVE HIM >> Reporter: RENEE WAS A MATCH 140 00:04:26,233 --> 00:04:28,166 >> Reporter: RENEE WAS A MATCH AND THE WEEKEND BEFORE THE 141 00:04:28,368 --> 00:04:29,234 AND THE WEEKEND BEFORE THE SURGERY WAS HER 41st BIRTHDAY. 142 00:04:29,436 --> 00:04:30,302 SURGERY WAS HER 41st BIRTHDAY. HER GOOD FRIEND CHRIS CRANDLE 143 00:04:30,504 --> 00:04:31,336 HER GOOD FRIEND CHRIS CRANDLE DECIDED TO THROW RENEE A 144 00:04:31,538 --> 00:04:32,904 DECIDED TO THROW RENEE A SURPRISE PARTY 145 00:04:33,106 --> 00:04:34,506 SURPRISE PARTY >> WE WERE GONNA MEET AT THE 146 00:04:34,708 --> 00:04:35,574 >> WE WERE GONNA MEET AT THE CARNIVAL AT 1:00 147 00:04:35,776 --> 00:04:37,175 CARNIVAL AT 1:00 AND THE PLAN WAS THEN TO WALK UP 148 00:04:37,377 --> 00:04:39,811 AND THE PLAN WAS THEN TO WALK UP THE STREET TO MY HOUSE AND COOL 149 00:04:40,013 --> 00:04:40,846 THE STREET TO MY HOUSE AND COOL OFF. 150 00:04:41,048 --> 00:04:41,913 OFF. SHE CAME, AND EVERYBODY ELSE HAD 151 00:04:42,115 --> 00:04:43,482 SHE CAME, AND EVERYBODY ELSE HAD TAKEN OFF AND GONE UP TO MY 152 00:04:43,684 --> 00:04:45,584 TAKEN OFF AND GONE UP TO MY HOUSE AND GOTTEN EVERYTHING 153 00:04:45,786 --> 00:04:46,652 HOUSE AND GOTTEN EVERYTHING READY. 154 00:04:46,854 --> 00:04:47,719 READY. AND RENEE AND I DID A CHERRY PIT 155 00:04:47,921 --> 00:04:48,754 AND RENEE AND I DID A CHERRY PIT SPITTING CONTEST TOGETHER, AND I 156 00:04:48,956 --> 00:04:49,988 SPITTING CONTEST TOGETHER, AND I KICKED HER BUTT. 157 00:04:50,190 --> 00:04:50,856 KICKED HER BUTT. >> Reporter: THIS MUST BE A 158 00:04:51,058 --> 00:04:51,957 >> Reporter: THIS MUST BE A MICHIGAN THING 159 00:04:52,159 --> 00:04:53,525 MICHIGAN THING RIGHT? 160 00:04:53,727 --> 00:04:55,093 RIGHT? A CHERRY SPITTING -- 161 00:04:55,295 --> 00:04:56,161 A CHERRY SPITTING -- >> YES 162 00:04:56,363 --> 00:04:57,229 >> YES SHE WALKED IN MY FRONT DOOR. 163 00:04:57,431 --> 00:04:58,263 SHE WALKED IN MY FRONT DOOR. AND EVERYONE'S WAITING IN THE 164 00:04:58,265 --> 00:04:59,865 AND EVERYONE'S WAITING IN THE OTHER ROOM 165 00:05:00,067 --> 00:05:02,467 OTHER ROOM AND SHE CAME OUT 166 00:05:02,669 --> 00:05:06,204 AND SHE CAME OUT WE TOTALLY SURPRISED HER 167 00:05:06,406 --> 00:05:07,239 WE TOTALLY SURPRISED HER WE TOTALLY GOT HER 168 00:05:07,441 --> 00:05:08,840 WE TOTALLY GOT HER AND IT WAS SO FUN. 169 00:05:09,042 --> 00:05:10,409 AND IT WAS SO FUN. IT WAS SO FUN. 170 00:05:10,611 --> 00:05:12,010 IT WAS SO FUN. IT WAS THE DAY BEFORE SHE WENT 171 00:05:12,212 --> 00:05:13,578 IT WAS THE DAY BEFORE SHE WENT INTO THE HOSPITAL. 172 00:05:13,780 --> 00:05:14,646 INTO THE HOSPITAL. >> Reporter: RENEE'S DAUGHTER, 173 00:05:14,848 --> 00:05:16,248 >> Reporter: RENEE'S DAUGHTER, SARAH, WAS 7 YEARS OLD AT THE 174 00:05:16,450 --> 00:05:17,282 SARAH, WAS 7 YEARS OLD AT THE TIME 175 00:05:17,484 --> 00:05:18,884 TIME YOU MIGHT NOT REMEMBER THIS, BUT 176 00:05:19,086 --> 00:05:20,786 YOU MIGHT NOT REMEMBER THIS, BUT DID YOU REALIZE WHAT A SELFLESS 177 00:05:20,988 --> 00:05:21,520 DID YOU REALIZE WHAT A SELFLESS THING YOUR MOM WAS DOING BY 178 00:05:21,722 --> 00:05:23,522 THING YOUR MOM WAS DOING BY DONATING THE KIDNEY? 179 00:05:23,724 --> 00:05:24,122 DONATING THE KIDNEY? >> I DON'T THINK I UNDERSTOOD 180 00:05:24,324 --> 00:05:26,258 >> I DON'T THINK I UNDERSTOOD UNTIL I WAS A LOT OLDER. 181 00:05:26,460 --> 00:05:27,859 UNTIL I WAS A LOT OLDER. BUT AFTER I DID, YOU KNOW, 182 00:05:28,061 --> 00:05:29,461 BUT AFTER I DID, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY 183 00:05:29,663 --> 00:05:31,997 THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY IMPACTFUL, TOO, TO REALIZE THAT 184 00:05:32,199 --> 00:05:33,165 IMPACTFUL, TOO, TO REALIZE THAT WAS THE TYPE OF PERSON SHE WAS 185 00:05:33,367 --> 00:05:34,232 WAS THE TYPE OF PERSON SHE WAS >> Reporter: RENEE'S FRIENDS 186 00:05:34,434 --> 00:05:35,834 >> Reporter: RENEE'S FRIENDS REMEMBER BACK THEN SARAH WAS 187 00:05:36,036 --> 00:05:37,402 REMEMBER BACK THEN SARAH WAS AWARE SOMETHING SCARY WAS 188 00:05:37,604 --> 00:05:38,437 AWARE SOMETHING SCARY WAS HAPPENING. 189 00:05:38,639 --> 00:05:40,605 HAPPENING. >> SARAH HAD SUCH A SENSITIVE 190 00:05:40,807 --> 00:05:42,140 >> SARAH HAD SUCH A SENSITIVE HEART, AND RENEE WAS SO 191 00:05:42,342 --> 00:05:44,276 HEART, AND RENEE WAS SO CONCERNED ABOUT SARAH. 192 00:05:44,478 --> 00:05:46,378 CONCERNED ABOUT SARAH. SHE WAS NERVOUS ABOUT HER MOM 193 00:05:46,580 --> 00:05:47,946 SHE WAS NERVOUS ABOUT HER MOM GOING INTO THE HOSPITAL, AND SHE 194 00:05:48,148 --> 00:05:49,581 GOING INTO THE HOSPITAL, AND SHE JUST SAT ON THE COUCH AND WAS 195 00:05:49,783 --> 00:05:51,683 JUST SAT ON THE COUCH AND WAS JUST QUIET 196 00:05:51,885 --> 00:05:52,718 JUST QUIET >> Reporter: LAURA BEACH IS A 197 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:54,286 >> Reporter: LAURA BEACH IS A CHILDHOOD FRIEND WHO WAS 198 00:05:54,488 --> 00:05:55,887 CHILDHOOD FRIEND WHO WAS PARTICULARLY CLOSE WITH RENEE'S 199 00:05:56,089 --> 00:05:57,456 PARTICULARLY CLOSE WITH RENEE'S DAUGHTER 200 00:05:57,658 --> 00:05:59,191 DAUGHTER AT THE PARTY, RENEE ASKED "AUNT 201 00:05:59,393 --> 00:06:01,193 AT THE PARTY, RENEE ASKED "AUNT LAURA" TO REASSURE SARAH 202 00:06:01,395 --> 00:06:03,295 LAURA" TO REASSURE SARAH >> SHE CALLED ME INTO THE 203 00:06:03,497 --> 00:06:04,896 >> SHE CALLED ME INTO THE BEDROOM, AND SHE SAID, "AUNT 204 00:06:05,098 --> 00:06:06,998 BEDROOM, AND SHE SAID, "AUNT LAURA, TELL SARAH THAT YOU WILL 205 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,334 LAURA, TELL SARAH THAT YOU WILL WATCH OVER ME WHEN I HAVE MY 206 00:06:09,536 --> 00:06:10,702 WATCH OVER ME WHEN I HAVE MY SURGERY. 207 00:06:10,904 --> 00:06:13,071 SURGERY. AND I SAID, "SARAH, I PROMISE 208 00:06:13,273 --> 00:06:15,974 AND I SAID, "SARAH, I PROMISE YOU I WILL TAKE CARE OF YOUR 209 00:06:16,176 --> 00:06:17,042 YOU I WILL TAKE CARE OF YOUR MOMMY. 210 00:06:17,244 --> 00:06:23,382 MOMMY. AND I COULDN'T KEEP THAT 211 00:06:23,584 --> 00:06:24,950 AND I COULDN'T KEEP THAT PROMISE. 212 00:06:25,152 --> 00:06:26,051 PROMISE. >> I DO REMEMBER THAT VERY WELL, 213 00:06:26,253 --> 00:06:27,652 >> I DO REMEMBER THAT VERY WELL, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE I WAS REALLY 214 00:06:27,854 --> 00:06:29,254 YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE I WAS REALLY SCARED 215 00:06:29,456 --> 00:06:30,288 SCARED I HAD NO IDEA WHAT WAS GOING ON. 216 00:06:30,490 --> 00:06:31,857 I HAD NO IDEA WHAT WAS GOING ON. AND SHE JUST SAID, YOU KNOW, "NO 217 00:06:32,059 --> 00:06:33,525 AND SHE JUST SAID, YOU KNOW, "NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS, LIKE, YOU 218 00:06:33,727 --> 00:06:38,764 MATTER WHAT HAPPENS, LIKE, YOU HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE THAT LOVE 219 00:06:38,966 --> 00:06:40,365 HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE THAT LOVE YOU. 220 00:06:40,367 --> 00:06:41,933 YOU. >> Reporter: SO SHE JUST WAS 221 00:06:42,135 --> 00:06:42,968 >> Reporter: SO SHE JUST WAS PREPARING FOR ANYTHING THAT 222 00:06:43,170 --> 00:06:44,035 PREPARING FOR ANYTHING THAT COULD HAPPEN, BUT WANTED YOU TO 223 00:06:44,237 --> 00:06:47,205 COULD HAPPEN, BUT WANTED YOU TO KNOW THAT YOU WERE LOVED AND 224 00:06:47,407 --> 00:06:48,273 KNOW THAT YOU WERE LOVED AND TAKEN CARE OF. 225 00:06:48,475 --> 00:06:53,011 TAKEN CARE OF. I'M SORRY. 226 00:06:53,213 --> 00:06:54,579 I'M SORRY. I KNOW HOW HARD THIS IS. 227 00:06:54,781 --> 00:06:55,647 I KNOW HOW HARD THIS IS. RENEE AND HER HUSBAND MICHAEL 228 00:06:55,849 --> 00:06:57,215 RENEE AND HER HUSBAND MICHAEL WERE SEPARATED, SO SARAH AND HER 229 00:06:57,417 --> 00:06:58,817 WERE SEPARATED, SO SARAH AND HER YOUNGER SIBLINGS WENT TO STAY 230 00:06:59,019 --> 00:07:01,019 YOUNGER SIBLINGS WENT TO STAY WITH THEIR DAD WHILE RENEE WENT 231 00:07:01,221 --> 00:07:04,623 WITH THEIR DAD WHILE RENEE WENT IN FOR SURGERY 232 00:07:04,825 --> 00:07:05,690 IN FOR SURGERY FOUR DAYS LATER, RENEE WENT HOME 233 00:07:05,892 --> 00:07:09,261 FOUR DAYS LATER, RENEE WENT HOME TO RECUPERATE. 234 00:07:09,463 --> 00:07:11,530 TO RECUPERATE. IT WAS JUST TWO DAYS AFTER THAT 235 00:07:11,732 --> 00:07:12,697 IT WAS JUST TWO DAYS AFTER THAT WHEN DETECTIVE E.J. JOHNSON WAS 236 00:07:12,899 --> 00:07:14,199 WHEN DETECTIVE E.J. JOHNSON WAS PULLING UP TO HER HOUSE. 237 00:07:14,401 --> 00:07:14,800 PULLING UP TO HER HOUSE. WHAT HAPPENS AS YOU ARRIVE ON 238 00:07:15,002 --> 00:07:16,401 WHAT HAPPENS AS YOU ARRIVE ON THE SCENE? 239 00:07:16,403 --> 00:07:17,436 THE SCENE? >> I JUST SAW A LOT OF POLICE 240 00:07:17,638 --> 00:07:19,004 >> I JUST SAW A LOT OF POLICE CARS 241 00:07:19,206 --> 00:07:20,605 CARS EVERYBODY WAS OUT HERE TOWARDS 242 00:07:20,807 --> 00:07:21,673 EVERYBODY WAS OUT HERE TOWARDS THE ROAD 243 00:07:21,875 --> 00:07:22,741 THE ROAD AND THEY HAD TAPED IT OFF JUST 244 00:07:22,943 --> 00:07:23,775 AND THEY HAD TAPED IT OFF JUST TO SECURE THE SCENE SO, THAT 245 00:07:23,977 --> 00:07:25,644 TO SECURE THE SCENE SO, THAT WAY, NO ONE'S IN AND OUT 246 00:07:25,846 --> 00:07:26,178 WAY, NO ONE'S IN AND OUT THEY'RE GONNA WAIT FOR US 247 00:07:26,380 --> 00:07:26,945 THEY'RE GONNA WAIT FOR US DETECTIVES TO GET HERE 248 00:07:27,147 --> 00:07:28,547 DETECTIVES TO GET HERE >> Reporter: OFFICERS ON THE 249 00:07:28,749 --> 00:07:30,115 >> Reporter: OFFICERS ON THE SCENE TOLD HIM THE DECEASED 250 00:07:30,317 --> 00:07:31,750 SCENE TOLD HIM THE DECEASED WOMAN'S NAME 251 00:07:31,952 --> 00:07:33,852 WOMAN'S NAME DID YOU KNOW RENEE 252 00:07:34,054 --> 00:07:34,886 DID YOU KNOW RENEE >> I KNEW OF RENEE 253 00:07:35,088 --> 00:07:36,021 >> I KNEW OF RENEE WE WERE ACTUALLY THE PAST FEW 254 00:07:36,223 --> 00:07:38,056 WE WERE ACTUALLY THE PAST FEW WEEKS PRAYING FOR A MEMBER AT 255 00:07:38,258 --> 00:07:39,090 WEEKS PRAYING FOR A MEMBER AT THE CHURCH, MY CHURCH, THAT WAS 256 00:07:39,292 --> 00:07:40,158 THE CHURCH, MY CHURCH, THAT WAS GETTIN' A KIDNEY TRANSPLANT, AND 257 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:41,226 GETTIN' A KIDNEY TRANSPLANT, AND SHE WAS THE ONE THAT WAS 258 00:07:41,428 --> 00:07:42,260 SHE WAS THE ONE THAT WAS DONATING 259 00:07:42,462 --> 00:07:43,295 DONATING >> Reporter: OH, WOW 260 00:07:43,497 --> 00:07:44,896 >> Reporter: OH, WOW SO HOW DID YOU FEEL WHEN YOU 261 00:07:45,098 --> 00:07:47,299 SO HOW DID YOU FEEL WHEN YOU REALIZED THAT THERE WAS THAT 262 00:07:47,501 --> 00:07:48,066 REALIZED THAT THERE WAS THAT CONNECTION THERE 263 00:07:48,268 --> 00:07:50,202 CONNECTION THERE >> WELL, I WAS PRETTY SHOCKED BY 264 00:07:50,404 --> 00:07:51,269 >> WELL, I WAS PRETTY SHOCKED BY IT BECAUSE THE DAUGHTER OF THE 265 00:07:51,471 --> 00:07:52,838 IT BECAUSE THE DAUGHTER OF THE GENTLEMAN THAT RECEIVED THE 266 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:54,005 GENTLEMAN THAT RECEIVED THE KIDNEY WAS AT MY HOUSE AT A 267 00:07:54,207 --> 00:07:55,474 KIDNEY WAS AT MY HOUSE AT A YOUTH ACTIVITY 268 00:07:55,676 --> 00:07:57,075 YOUTH ACTIVITY THEY WERE DOIN' A SWIM PARTY AT 269 00:07:57,277 --> 00:07:58,143 THEY WERE DOIN' A SWIM PARTY AT MY PLACE 270 00:07:58,345 --> 00:07:59,711 MY PLACE >> Reporter: THAT'S RIGHT. 271 00:07:59,913 --> 00:08:00,779 >> Reporter: THAT'S RIGHT. IN THIS SMALL TOWN WHERE THERE 272 00:08:00,981 --> 00:08:02,347 IN THIS SMALL TOWN WHERE THERE WERE LOTS OF CONNECTIONS, 273 00:08:02,549 --> 00:08:03,949 WERE LOTS OF CONNECTIONS, CAITLIN, THE NURSING STUDENT, 274 00:08:04,151 --> 00:08:06,084 CAITLIN, THE NURSING STUDENT, WAS AT DETECTIVE JOHNSON'S HOUSE 275 00:08:06,286 --> 00:08:06,651 WAS AT DETECTIVE JOHNSON'S HOUSE AS HE WAS RESPONDING TO THE 276 00:08:06,853 --> 00:08:08,720 AS HE WAS RESPONDING TO THE CALL 277 00:08:08,922 --> 00:08:10,288 CALL WHAT HE SAW TOLD HIM RIGHT AWAY 278 00:08:10,490 --> 00:08:11,857 WHAT HE SAW TOLD HIM RIGHT AWAY THIS WAS NO COMPLICATION FROM 279 00:08:12,059 --> 00:08:12,924 THIS WAS NO COMPLICATION FROM SURGERY. 280 00:08:13,126 --> 00:08:16,661 SURGERY. NO MEDICAL CALAMITY. 281 00:08:16,863 --> 00:08:20,832 NO MEDICAL CALAMITY. THIS WAS MURDER. 282 00:08:21,034 --> 00:08:22,133 THIS WAS MURDER. >>> WHEN WE COME BACK -- 283 00:08:22,335 --> 00:08:24,269 >>> WHEN WE COME BACK -- A SELFLESS ACT FOLLOWED BY AN 284 00:08:24,471 --> 00:08:26,771 A SELFLESS ACT FOLLOWED BY AN EVIL ONE 285 00:08:26,973 --> 00:08:27,339 EVIL ONE WHO COULD HAVE KILLED RENEE? 286 00:08:27,541 --> 00:08:28,473 WHO COULD HAVE KILLED RENEE? >> WHEN I WALK INTO THE BEDROOM, 287 00:08:28,475 --> 00:08:30,976 >> WHEN I WALK INTO THE BEDROOM, I SEE RENEE LAYING SIDEWAYS ON 288 00:08:31,178 --> 00:08:33,044 I SEE RENEE LAYING SIDEWAYS ON THE BED. 289 00:08:33,246 --> 00:08:34,279 THE BED. AND I WAS SEEING BLOOD ALL OVER. 290 00:08:34,481 --> 00:08:35,146 AND I WAS SEEING BLOOD ALL OVER. >> IT'S JUST ETCHED IN MY MIND 291 00:08:35,348 --> 00:08:37,782 >> IT'S JUST ETCHED IN MY MIND FOREVER. 292 00:08:37,984 --> 00:08:56,535 FOREVER. >> COMPLETE SHOCK. 293 00:08:56,737 --> 00:08:58,470 >> COMPLETE SHOCK. ♪ (MÚSICA) ♪ ♪ (MÚSICA) ♪ 294 00:08:58,672 --> 00:08:59,838 ♪ (MÚSICA) ♪ ♪ (MÚSICA) ♪ FOOT AT THE CRIME SCENE, 295 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:01,840 FOOT AT THE CRIME SCENE, DETECTIVE E.J. JOHNSON HAD BEEN 296 00:09:02,042 --> 00:09:03,708 DETECTIVE E.J. JOHNSON HAD BEEN PRAYING FOR RENEE PAGEL. 297 00:09:03,910 --> 00:09:05,010 PRAYING FOR RENEE PAGEL. SHE'D JUST DONATED A KIDNEY TO A 298 00:09:05,212 --> 00:09:06,311 SHE'D JUST DONATED A KIDNEY TO A MEMBER OF HIS CHURCH 299 00:09:06,513 --> 00:09:07,646 MEMBER OF HIS CHURCH DID YOU FEEL RIGHT AWAY, JUST 300 00:09:07,848 --> 00:09:08,213 DID YOU FEEL RIGHT AWAY, JUST WITH THAT CHURCH CONNECTION, 301 00:09:08,415 --> 00:09:10,782 WITH THAT CHURCH CONNECTION, THAT, "I NEED ANSWERS FOR THIS 302 00:09:10,984 --> 00:09:12,884 THAT, "I NEED ANSWERS FOR THIS FAMILY"? 303 00:09:13,086 --> 00:09:13,952 FAMILY"? >> ABSOLUTELY, YEAH. 304 00:09:14,154 --> 00:09:15,554 >> ABSOLUTELY, YEAH. >> Reporter: IN HIS CALL TO 911, 305 00:09:15,756 --> 00:09:16,621 >> Reporter: IN HIS CALL TO 911, RENEE'S FATHER HAD MENTIONED THE 306 00:09:16,823 --> 00:09:19,257 RENEE'S FATHER HAD MENTIONED THE SURGERY AS A POSSIBLE 307 00:09:19,459 --> 00:09:20,292 SURGERY AS A POSSIBLE EXPLANATION FOR HER DEATH. 308 00:09:20,494 --> 00:09:24,195 EXPLANATION FOR HER DEATH. BUT HE ALSO REPORTED SEEING CUTS 309 00:09:24,397 --> 00:09:25,330 BUT HE ALSO REPORTED SEEING CUTS ON HER ARM 310 00:09:25,532 --> 00:09:27,432 ON HER ARM >> SHE HAS A LACERATION ON HER 311 00:09:27,634 --> 00:09:28,500 >> SHE HAS A LACERATION ON HER WRIST, YOU SAID? 312 00:09:28,702 --> 00:09:29,534 WRIST, YOU SAID? >> UH, NOT ON HER WRIST, ON THE 313 00:09:29,736 --> 00:09:30,602 >> UH, NOT ON HER WRIST, ON THE UPPER PART OF HER ARM. 314 00:09:30,804 --> 00:09:31,636 UPPER PART OF HER ARM. >> WHEN I GOT UP HERE, I WAS 315 00:09:31,838 --> 00:09:32,704 >> WHEN I GOT UP HERE, I WAS JUST TOLD THAT THE FATHER 316 00:09:32,906 --> 00:09:33,738 JUST TOLD THAT THE FATHER THOUGHT IT WAS A POTENTIAL 317 00:09:33,940 --> 00:09:34,806 THOUGHT IT WAS A POTENTIAL SUICIDE. 318 00:09:35,008 --> 00:09:35,874 SUICIDE. BUT SHE DID HAVE A MAJOR 319 00:09:36,076 --> 00:09:36,908 BUT SHE DID HAVE A MAJOR SURGERY. 320 00:09:37,110 --> 00:09:37,976 SURGERY. BUT WHAT HAPPENED WAS -- IS ONE 321 00:09:38,178 --> 00:09:39,010 BUT WHAT HAPPENED WAS -- IS ONE OF THE DEPUTIES TOOK A 322 00:09:39,212 --> 00:09:40,612 OF THE DEPUTIES TOOK A PHOTOGRAPH OF HER. 323 00:09:40,814 --> 00:09:41,680 PHOTOGRAPH OF HER. SO I LOOKED AT THAT PHOTOGRAPH 324 00:09:41,882 --> 00:09:43,381 SO I LOOKED AT THAT PHOTOGRAPH AND SAW NUMEROUS WOUNDS ON 325 00:09:43,583 --> 00:09:44,316 AND SAW NUMEROUS WOUNDS ON RENEE. 326 00:09:44,518 --> 00:09:45,917 RENEE. SO I KNEW IT WAS MORE THAN A 327 00:09:46,119 --> 00:09:48,553 SO I KNEW IT WAS MORE THAN A SUICIDE, MORE THAN A 328 00:09:48,555 --> 00:09:49,854 SUICIDE, MORE THAN A COMPLICATION 329 00:09:50,056 --> 00:09:50,655 COMPLICATION IT WAS GONNA BE -- A -- A 330 00:09:50,857 --> 00:09:52,257 IT WAS GONNA BE -- A -- A MURDER 331 00:09:52,459 --> 00:09:53,825 MURDER >> Reporter: THE DETECTIVE WENT 332 00:09:54,027 --> 00:09:54,926 >> Reporter: THE DETECTIVE WENT IN TO SEE IT WITH HIS OWN EYES 333 00:09:55,128 --> 00:09:57,162 IN TO SEE IT WITH HIS OWN EYES RENEE HAD BEEN STABBED MORE THAN 334 00:09:57,364 --> 00:09:57,529 RENEE HAD BEEN STABBED MORE THAN ONCE 335 00:09:57,731 --> 00:09:59,097 ONCE >> WHEN I WALK INTO THE BEDROOM, 336 00:09:59,299 --> 00:10:00,165 >> WHEN I WALK INTO THE BEDROOM, I SEE RENEE LAYING SIDEWAYS ON 337 00:10:00,367 --> 00:10:02,267 I SEE RENEE LAYING SIDEWAYS ON THE BED. 338 00:10:02,469 --> 00:10:03,835 THE BED. AND I WAS SEEIN' BLOOD ALL OVER 339 00:10:04,037 --> 00:10:04,369 AND I WAS SEEIN' BLOOD ALL OVER THE BEDDING. 340 00:10:04,571 --> 00:10:07,606 THE BEDDING. THEN I STARTED LOOKING AT HER 341 00:10:07,808 --> 00:10:08,273 THEN I STARTED LOOKING AT HER ARMS AND AROUND HER HEAD AND 342 00:10:08,475 --> 00:10:11,042 ARMS AND AROUND HER HEAD AND FACE, AND JUST A LOT OF 343 00:10:11,244 --> 00:10:12,110 FACE, AND JUST A LOT OF LACERATIONS AND CUTS 344 00:10:12,312 --> 00:10:15,280 LACERATIONS AND CUTS >> Reporter: AS WORD SPREAD 345 00:10:15,482 --> 00:10:16,848 >> Reporter: AS WORD SPREAD AMONG RENEE'S FRIENDS, THEY WERE 346 00:10:17,050 --> 00:10:17,916 AMONG RENEE'S FRIENDS, THEY WERE IN DISBELIEF 347 00:10:18,118 --> 00:10:19,517 IN DISBELIEF RENEE PAGEL WAS A RESPECTED 348 00:10:19,719 --> 00:10:23,121 RENEE PAGEL WAS A RESPECTED NURSE, A PASSIONATE TEACHER, A 349 00:10:23,323 --> 00:10:24,389 NURSE, A PASSIONATE TEACHER, A GENEROUS FRIEND. 350 00:10:24,591 --> 00:10:26,591 GENEROUS FRIEND. JUST A WEEK EARLIER, CHRIS HAD 351 00:10:26,593 --> 00:10:27,559 JUST A WEEK EARLIER, CHRIS HAD THROWN HER THAT SURPRISE PARTY 352 00:10:27,761 --> 00:10:28,593 THROWN HER THAT SURPRISE PARTY >> IT'S JUST ETCHED IN MY MIND 353 00:10:28,595 --> 00:10:30,195 >> IT'S JUST ETCHED IN MY MIND FOREVER. 354 00:10:30,397 --> 00:10:31,863 FOREVER. LAURA CALLED ME. 355 00:10:32,065 --> 00:10:33,398 LAURA CALLED ME. AND SHE SAID -- HER WORDS TO ME 356 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:35,500 AND SHE SAID -- HER WORDS TO ME WERE, "CHRIS, RENEE'S DEAD." 357 00:10:35,702 --> 00:10:37,602 WERE, "CHRIS, RENEE'S DEAD." AND MY MOM CAN TELL YOU, I RAN 358 00:10:37,804 --> 00:10:39,204 AND MY MOM CAN TELL YOU, I RAN OUT OF THE HOUSE, FELL ON HER 359 00:10:39,406 --> 00:10:42,641 OUT OF THE HOUSE, FELL ON HER FRONT LAWN IN A FETAL POSITION, 360 00:10:42,843 --> 00:10:44,409 FRONT LAWN IN A FETAL POSITION, JUST SCREAMED. 361 00:10:44,611 --> 00:10:45,510 JUST SCREAMED. >> COMPLETE SHOCK. 362 00:10:45,712 --> 00:10:47,078 >> COMPLETE SHOCK. LIKE, TO SEE IT ON THE NEWS AND 363 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,748 LIKE, TO SEE IT ON THE NEWS AND SEE HER PICTURE -- 364 00:10:49,950 --> 00:10:53,952 SEE HER PICTURE -- LIKE, I HAD SEEN HER JUST BEFORE 365 00:10:54,154 --> 00:10:56,321 LIKE, I HAD SEEN HER JUST BEFORE SHE LEFT THE HOSPITAL. 366 00:10:56,523 --> 00:10:58,156 SHE LEFT THE HOSPITAL. AND THREE DAYS LATER, WE FIND 367 00:10:58,358 --> 00:11:01,860 AND THREE DAYS LATER, WE FIND OUT. 368 00:11:02,062 --> 00:11:02,894 OUT. SHOCKING 369 00:11:03,096 --> 00:11:03,962 SHOCKING >> Reporter: HER STUDENT CAITLIN 370 00:11:04,164 --> 00:11:05,530 >> Reporter: HER STUDENT CAITLIN COULD ONLY THINK OF RENEE'S 371 00:11:05,732 --> 00:11:08,033 COULD ONLY THINK OF RENEE'S GENEROSITY 372 00:11:08,235 --> 00:11:08,600 GENEROSITY IT'S WHAT EVERYONE REMEMBERS 373 00:11:08,802 --> 00:11:10,835 IT'S WHAT EVERYONE REMEMBERS IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE SHE JUST 374 00:11:11,037 --> 00:11:11,870 IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE SHE JUST LOVED EVERYONE 375 00:11:12,072 --> 00:11:12,937 LOVED EVERYONE >> I KNOW PEOPLE SAY THIS WHEN 376 00:11:13,139 --> 00:11:15,573 >> I KNOW PEOPLE SAY THIS WHEN SOMEONE DIES THAT, "OH, THEY 377 00:11:15,775 --> 00:11:19,244 SOMEONE DIES THAT, "OH, THEY WERE A SAINT." 378 00:11:19,446 --> 00:11:21,346 WERE A SAINT." SHE REALLY WAS 379 00:11:21,548 --> 00:11:23,448 SHE REALLY WAS LIKE, SHE GAVE AND GAVE. 380 00:11:23,650 --> 00:11:26,117 LIKE, SHE GAVE AND GAVE. AND THE STORIES THAT HAVE COME 381 00:11:26,319 --> 00:11:30,321 AND THE STORIES THAT HAVE COME OUT ABOUT HOW SHE WENT ABOVE AND 382 00:11:30,523 --> 00:11:31,956 OUT ABOUT HOW SHE WENT ABOVE AND BEYOND TO SHOW KINDNESS AND 383 00:11:32,158 --> 00:11:32,991 BEYOND TO SHOW KINDNESS AND GRACE -- I JUST OFTEN SAY SHE 384 00:11:33,193 --> 00:11:34,559 GRACE -- I JUST OFTEN SAY SHE WAS JESUS IN SKIN. 385 00:11:34,761 --> 00:11:35,627 WAS JESUS IN SKIN. WAS SHE PERFECT? 386 00:11:35,829 --> 00:11:39,864 WAS SHE PERFECT? NO 387 00:11:40,066 --> 00:11:41,433 NO BUT SHE WAS SO GENEROUS. 388 00:11:41,635 --> 00:11:42,500 BUT SHE WAS SO GENEROUS. >> Reporter: CHILDHOOD FRIEND 389 00:11:42,702 --> 00:11:44,069 >> Reporter: CHILDHOOD FRIEND LAURA BEACH REMEMBERS RENEE'S 390 00:11:44,271 --> 00:11:45,136 LAURA BEACH REMEMBERS RENEE'S FIRM COMMITMENT TO HER CHRISTIAN 391 00:11:45,338 --> 00:11:48,306 FIRM COMMITMENT TO HER CHRISTIAN FAITH. 392 00:11:48,508 --> 00:11:50,809 FAITH. >> RELIGION WAS A VERY IMPORTANT 393 00:11:51,011 --> 00:11:54,446 >> RELIGION WAS A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF HER LIFE, HER 394 00:11:54,648 --> 00:11:57,015 PART OF HER LIFE, HER RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. 395 00:11:57,217 --> 00:11:57,615 RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. >> IT WAS IN HER DNA FOR SURE. 396 00:11:57,817 --> 00:11:59,150 >> IT WAS IN HER DNA FOR SURE. SHE WAS LEAVING FOR AFRICA ON A 397 00:11:59,352 --> 00:12:00,185 SHE WAS LEAVING FOR AFRICA ON A MISSION TRIP 398 00:12:00,387 --> 00:12:01,252 MISSION TRIP AND WHEN RENEE LEFT, HER MOM 399 00:12:01,454 --> 00:12:02,320 AND WHEN RENEE LEFT, HER MOM STARTED SOBBING AND SHE SAID, "I 400 00:12:02,522 --> 00:12:03,555 STARTED SOBBING AND SHE SAID, "I JUST DON'T KNOW WHERE SHE GETS 401 00:12:03,757 --> 00:12:04,956 JUST DON'T KNOW WHERE SHE GETS THIS FROM. 402 00:12:05,158 --> 00:12:06,024 THIS FROM. I JUST DON'T KNOW WHERE SHE GETS 403 00:12:06,226 --> 00:12:07,592 I JUST DON'T KNOW WHERE SHE GETS THIS FROM. 404 00:12:07,794 --> 00:12:08,626 THIS FROM. >> Reporter: JOYCE SCHANER MET 405 00:12:08,828 --> 00:12:09,728 >> Reporter: JOYCE SCHANER MET RENEE IN COLLEGE 406 00:12:09,930 --> 00:12:10,762 RENEE IN COLLEGE >> DAY ONE WE BECAME THICK AS 407 00:12:10,964 --> 00:12:11,796 >> DAY ONE WE BECAME THICK AS THIEVES. 408 00:12:11,998 --> 00:12:12,864 THIEVES. WE CLICKED 409 00:12:13,066 --> 00:12:14,432 WE CLICKED WE TALKED EVERY DAY. 410 00:12:14,634 --> 00:12:15,500 WE TALKED EVERY DAY. I DROVE HER BACK AND FORTH TO 411 00:12:15,702 --> 00:12:17,102 I DROVE HER BACK AND FORTH TO SCHOOL 412 00:12:17,304 --> 00:12:20,138 SCHOOL WE STUDIED 413 00:12:20,340 --> 00:12:21,372 WE STUDIED WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME TOGETHER. 414 00:12:21,574 --> 00:12:22,140 WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME TOGETHER. >> Reporter: DETECTIVE JOHNSON 415 00:12:22,342 --> 00:12:24,776 >> Reporter: DETECTIVE JOHNSON ALREADY KNEW RENEE WAS A 416 00:12:24,978 --> 00:12:26,377 ALREADY KNEW RENEE WAS A WELL-LIKED PERSON. 417 00:12:26,579 --> 00:12:27,412 WELL-LIKED PERSON. NOW HE NEEDED TO PUT HIS 418 00:12:27,614 --> 00:12:29,013 NOW HE NEEDED TO PUT HIS INVESTIGATIVHAT ON TO FIGURE 419 00:12:29,215 --> 00:12:30,582 INVESTIGATIVHAT ON TO FIGURE OUT WHO WOULD WANT HER DEAD. 420 00:12:30,784 --> 00:12:32,183 OUT WHO WOULD WANT HER DEAD. HE TOOK A CLOSER LOOK AT THE 421 00:12:32,385 --> 00:12:34,819 HE TOOK A CLOSER LOOK AT THE CRIME SCENE. 422 00:12:35,021 --> 00:12:35,386 CRIME SCENE. WHAT ARE YOU NOTICING RIGHT 423 00:12:35,588 --> 00:12:37,055 WHAT ARE YOU NOTICING RIGHT AWAY AS FAR AS THINGS THAT ARE 424 00:12:37,257 --> 00:12:39,691 AWAY AS FAR AS THINGS THAT ARE OBVIOUS? 425 00:12:39,893 --> 00:12:41,259 OBVIOUS? >> IT WAS A BRUTAL MURDER SCENE. 426 00:12:41,461 --> 00:12:43,261 >> IT WAS A BRUTAL MURDER SCENE. THERE WAS BLOOD ON THE WALLS, 427 00:12:43,463 --> 00:12:43,895 THERE WAS BLOOD ON THE WALLS, BLOOD ON THE LAMPS, BLOOD ON THE 428 00:12:44,097 --> 00:12:44,963 BLOOD ON THE LAMPS, BLOOD ON THE CEILING. 429 00:12:45,165 --> 00:12:46,030 CEILING. BUT OTHER THINGS I NOTICED WAS A 430 00:12:46,232 --> 00:12:47,632 BUT OTHER THINGS I NOTICED WAS A JEWELRY BOX WITH JEWELRY STILL 431 00:12:47,834 --> 00:12:49,200 JEWELRY BOX WITH JEWELRY STILL IN IT. 432 00:12:49,402 --> 00:12:50,235 IN IT. I NOTICED SOME MONEY ON A 433 00:12:50,437 --> 00:12:53,271 I NOTICED SOME MONEY ON A COUNTER, OR ONE OF HER DRESSERS, 434 00:12:53,473 --> 00:12:55,306 COUNTER, OR ONE OF HER DRESSERS, THAT WASN'T MISSING. 435 00:12:55,508 --> 00:12:57,609 THAT WASN'T MISSING. SO RIGHT AWAY, I'M THINKING IT 436 00:12:57,811 --> 00:12:59,043 SO RIGHT AWAY, I'M THINKING IT DIDN'T APPEAR TO BE A ROBBERY. 437 00:12:59,245 --> 00:12:59,677 DIDN'T APPEAR TO BE A ROBBERY. >> Reporter: DID IT LOOK TO YOU 438 00:12:59,879 --> 00:13:00,745 >> Reporter: DID IT LOOK TO YOU LIKE RENEE HAD FOUGHT BACK AT 439 00:13:00,747 --> 00:13:01,813 LIKE RENEE HAD FOUGHT BACK AT ALL? 440 00:13:02,015 --> 00:13:03,414 ALL? COULD YOU TELL 441 00:13:03,616 --> 00:13:05,517 COULD YOU TELL >> LOOKING AT RENEE, I COULD SEE 442 00:13:05,719 --> 00:13:07,152 >> LOOKING AT RENEE, I COULD SEE DEFENSIVE WOUNDS ON HER HAND, 443 00:13:07,354 --> 00:13:10,188 DEFENSIVE WOUNDS ON HER HAND, SPECIFICALLY ONE DEFENSIVE WOUND 444 00:13:10,390 --> 00:13:11,756 SPECIFICALLY ONE DEFENSIVE WOUND THAT WENT THROUGH HER HAND 445 00:13:11,958 --> 00:13:14,492 THAT WENT THROUGH HER HAND THEN WHEN YOU DOVE MORE INTO 446 00:13:14,694 --> 00:13:16,494 THEN WHEN YOU DOVE MORE INTO IT, YOU COULD SEE ON HER -- 447 00:13:16,696 --> 00:13:18,129 IT, YOU COULD SEE ON HER -- WELL, ON HER HEEL OF HER FOOT 448 00:13:18,331 --> 00:13:21,666 WELL, ON HER HEEL OF HER FOOT WAS A LARGE LACERATION, LIKE SHE 449 00:13:21,868 --> 00:13:22,300 WAS A LARGE LACERATION, LIKE SHE WAS KICKING AND SHE WAS PUSHING 450 00:13:22,502 --> 00:13:23,368 WAS KICKING AND SHE WAS PUSHING AWAY FROM THE SUSPECT. 451 00:13:23,570 --> 00:13:25,470 AWAY FROM THE SUSPECT. >> Reporter: THE CORONER'S 452 00:13:25,672 --> 00:13:27,572 >> Reporter: THE CORONER'S REPORT SAID SHE HAD BEEN STABBED 453 00:13:27,774 --> 00:13:29,841 REPORT SAID SHE HAD BEEN STABBED MORE THAN 50 TIMES 454 00:13:30,043 --> 00:13:30,408 MORE THAN 50 TIMES SOMEONE WANTED TO MAKE SURE 455 00:13:30,610 --> 00:13:31,309 SOMEONE WANTED TO MAKE SURE RENEE WAS DEAD 456 00:13:31,511 --> 00:13:32,877 RENEE WAS DEAD THIS LOOKS PERSONAL, THE FACT 457 00:13:33,079 --> 00:13:33,945 THIS LOOKS PERSONAL, THE FACT THAT THERE'S THAT MANY STAB 458 00:13:34,147 --> 00:13:36,014 THAT THERE'S THAT MANY STAB WOUNDS 459 00:13:36,216 --> 00:13:37,081 WOUNDS >> I FELT ALMOST IMMEDIATELY IT 460 00:13:37,283 --> 00:13:38,149 >> I FELT ALMOST IMMEDIATELY IT WAS SOMEBODY THAT HAD AN 461 00:13:38,351 --> 00:13:39,717 WAS SOMEBODY THAT HAD AN ABSOLUTE HATE FOR RENEE, A RAGE 462 00:13:39,919 --> 00:13:41,352 ABSOLUTE HATE FOR RENEE, A RAGE THAT WAS BUILT UP. 463 00:13:41,554 --> 00:13:42,887 THAT WAS BUILT UP. THESE STAB WOUNDS WERE FROM 464 00:13:43,089 --> 00:13:44,989 THESE STAB WOUNDS WERE FROM SOMEBODY, IN MY OPINION, THAT 465 00:13:45,191 --> 00:13:46,591 SOMEBODY, IN MY OPINION, THAT REALLY HAD A DEEP HATE FOR HER 466 00:13:46,793 --> 00:13:47,625 REALLY HAD A DEEP HATE FOR HER >> Reporter: BUT WHO 467 00:13:47,827 --> 00:13:49,227 >> Reporter: BUT WHO THE QUESTION WOULD OCCUPY THE 468 00:13:49,429 --> 00:13:50,295 THE QUESTION WOULD OCCUPY THE INVESTIGATORS AND HER FRIENDS 469 00:13:50,497 --> 00:13:53,865 INVESTIGATORS AND HER FRIENDS FOR A LOT LONGER THAN ANYONE 470 00:13:54,067 --> 00:13:56,634 FOR A LOT LONGER THAN ANYONE COULD HAVE IMAGINED. 471 00:13:56,836 --> 00:14:06,611 COULD HAVE IMAGINED. >>> COMING UP -- 472 00:14:06,813 --> 00:14:09,180 >>> COMING UP -- INVESTIGATORS START WITH RENEE'S 473 00:14:09,382 --> 00:14:09,714 INVESTIGATORS START WITH RENEE'S SOON-TO-BE EX-HUSBAND. 474 00:14:09,916 --> 00:14:10,782 SOON-TO-BE EX-HUSBAND. WHERE WAS HE THE NIGHT OF THE 475 00:14:10,984 --> 00:14:28,399 WHERE WAS HE THE NIGHT OF THE CRIME? 476 00:14:28,601 --> 00:14:29,033 CRIME? >>> Reporter: THE INVESTIGATION 477 00:14:29,235 --> 00:14:30,568 >>> Reporter: THE INVESTIGATION INTO RENEE PAGEL'S MURDER WAS 478 00:14:30,770 --> 00:14:32,170 INTO RENEE PAGEL'S MURDER WAS ONLY HOURS OLD WHEN THE NEWS HAD 479 00:14:32,372 --> 00:14:33,204 ONLY HOURS OLD WHEN THE NEWS HAD TO BE BROKEN TO HER THEN 480 00:14:33,406 --> 00:14:34,572 TO BE BROKEN TO HER THEN 7-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER SARAH AND 481 00:14:34,774 --> 00:14:35,874 7-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER SARAH AND SARAH'S TWO SIBLINGS, 482 00:14:36,076 --> 00:14:36,908 SARAH'S TWO SIBLINGS, JOEL AND HANNAH. 483 00:14:37,110 --> 00:14:37,976 JOEL AND HANNAH. HOW DID YOU LEARN WHAT HAD 484 00:14:38,178 --> 00:14:39,010 HOW DID YOU LEARN WHAT HAD HAPPENED 485 00:14:39,212 --> 00:14:41,145 HAPPENED AND DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT YOU 486 00:14:41,347 --> 00:14:41,679 AND DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT YOU WERE TOLD? 487 00:14:41,881 --> 00:14:43,248 WERE TOLD? >> YEAH. 488 00:14:43,450 --> 00:14:44,816 >> YEAH. I REMEMBER I WAS AT MY AUNT 489 00:14:45,018 --> 00:14:46,951 I REMEMBER I WAS AT MY AUNT NANCY'S HOUSE. 490 00:14:47,153 --> 00:14:48,519 NANCY'S HOUSE. SO MY -- MY DAD'S SISTER'S 491 00:14:48,721 --> 00:14:49,587 SO MY -- MY DAD'S SISTER'S HOUSE. 492 00:14:49,789 --> 00:14:50,622 HOUSE. AND WE WERE JUST TOLD, LIKE, 493 00:14:50,824 --> 00:14:51,689 AND WE WERE JUST TOLD, LIKE, RIGHT THERE IN, LIKE, THE LIVING 494 00:14:51,891 --> 00:14:53,291 RIGHT THERE IN, LIKE, THE LIVING ROOM THAT, YOU KNOW, SHE PASSED 495 00:14:53,493 --> 00:14:54,325 ROOM THAT, YOU KNOW, SHE PASSED AWAY 496 00:14:54,527 --> 00:14:55,827 AWAY >> Reporter: WOW 497 00:14:56,029 --> 00:14:56,394 >> Reporter: WOW DID LIFE KINDA STOP IN THAT 498 00:14:56,596 --> 00:14:58,763 DID LIFE KINDA STOP IN THAT MOMENT 499 00:14:58,965 --> 00:14:59,597 MOMENT >> I MEAN, IT'S DEFINITELY 500 00:14:59,799 --> 00:15:00,665 >> I MEAN, IT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING YOU DON'T FORGET 501 00:15:00,867 --> 00:15:02,033 SOMETHING YOU DON'T FORGET YOU -- YOU KNOW, THAT MOMENT, 502 00:15:02,235 --> 00:15:03,801 YOU -- YOU KNOW, THAT MOMENT, LIKE, I DON'T THINK I'LL EVER 503 00:15:04,003 --> 00:15:04,869 LIKE, I DON'T THINK I'LL EVER FORGET 504 00:15:04,871 --> 00:15:06,437 FORGET >> Reporter: SARAH SAYS SHE 505 00:15:06,639 --> 00:15:08,039 >> Reporter: SARAH SAYS SHE ISN'T EVEN SURE WHEN SHE LEARNED 506 00:15:08,241 --> 00:15:09,607 ISN'T EVEN SURE WHEN SHE LEARNED HOW HER MOTHER DIED. 507 00:15:09,809 --> 00:15:11,209 HOW HER MOTHER DIED. THE ADULTS AROUND HER SHIELDED 508 00:15:11,411 --> 00:15:14,379 THE ADULTS AROUND HER SHIELDED HER FROM THE DETAILS 509 00:15:14,581 --> 00:15:15,947 HER FROM THE DETAILS >> WE DIDN'T REALIZE KIND OF THE 510 00:15:16,149 --> 00:15:19,150 >> WE DIDN'T REALIZE KIND OF THE SITUATION UNTIL WE WERE -- UNTIL 511 00:15:19,352 --> 00:15:23,554 SITUATION UNTIL WE WERE -- UNTIL I WAS AT LEAST AROUND 13, 14 512 00:15:23,756 --> 00:15:27,659 I WAS AT LEAST AROUND 13, 14 AND SO IT WASN'T SOMETHING THAT 513 00:15:27,861 --> 00:15:28,192 AND SO IT WASN'T SOMETHING THAT WE WERE DEALING WITH THAT. 514 00:15:28,394 --> 00:15:29,761 WE WERE DEALING WITH THAT. AT LEAST, IN MY EYES, THAT 515 00:15:29,963 --> 00:15:31,362 AT LEAST, IN MY EYES, THAT WASN'T SOMETHING I COMPREHENDED. 516 00:15:31,564 --> 00:15:32,964 WASN'T SOMETHING I COMPREHENDED. >> Reporter: YOUNG SARAH DIDN'T 517 00:15:33,166 --> 00:15:33,998 >> Reporter: YOUNG SARAH DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF 518 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,535 UNDERSTAND THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF HER MOTHERS DEATH, JUST LIKE 519 00:15:37,737 --> 00:15:39,671 HER MOTHERS DEATH, JUST LIKE SHE'D KNOWN LITTLE ABOUT HER 520 00:15:39,873 --> 00:15:41,039 SHE'D KNOWN LITTLE ABOUT HER PARENTS' PENDING DIVORCE 521 00:15:41,241 --> 00:15:41,773 PARENTS' PENDING DIVORCE RENEE AND MICHAEL PAGEL HAD BEEN 522 00:15:41,975 --> 00:15:42,807 RENEE AND MICHAEL PAGEL HAD BEEN SEPARATED FOR A YEAR BEFORE SHE 523 00:15:43,009 --> 00:15:43,875 SEPARATED FOR A YEAR BEFORE SHE DIED 524 00:15:44,077 --> 00:15:45,443 DIED >> WE WERE VERY SHELTERED FROM 525 00:15:45,645 --> 00:15:46,511 >> WE WERE VERY SHELTERED FROM THAT 526 00:15:46,713 --> 00:15:47,578 THAT I DON'T HAVE ANY BAD MEMORIES OF 527 00:15:47,780 --> 00:15:51,182 I DON'T HAVE ANY BAD MEMORIES OF THEM WHEN SHE WAS TOGETHER 528 00:15:51,384 --> 00:15:52,784 THEM WHEN SHE WAS TOGETHER YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND 529 00:15:52,986 --> 00:15:54,385 YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS GOING ON AT THAT POINT 530 00:15:54,587 --> 00:15:55,787 WHAT WAS GOING ON AT THAT POINT IN TIME EITHER, SO I NEVER FELT 531 00:15:55,989 --> 00:15:56,387 IN TIME EITHER, SO I NEVER FELT LIKE THEY DIDN'T STILL LOVE US 532 00:15:56,589 --> 00:15:58,723 LIKE THEY DIDN'T STILL LOVE US AND THEY DIDN'T STILL CARE ABOUT 533 00:15:58,925 --> 00:15:59,123 AND THEY DIDN'T STILL CARE ABOUT EACH OTHER EITHER. 534 00:15:59,325 --> 00:15:59,657 EACH OTHER EITHER. >> Reporter: SO THEY WE -- 535 00:15:59,859 --> 00:16:00,758 >> Reporter: SO THEY WE -- THEY WERE DOING GOOD 536 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:01,826 THEY WERE DOING GOOD CO-PARENTING 537 00:16:02,028 --> 00:16:02,860 CO-PARENTING >> YEAH. 538 00:16:03,062 --> 00:16:03,428 >> YEAH. EVERYTHING ALWAYS FELT VERY 539 00:16:03,630 --> 00:16:04,996 EVERYTHING ALWAYS FELT VERY CIVIL. 540 00:16:05,198 --> 00:16:06,030 CIVIL. >> Reporter: HER MOM WORKED LONG 541 00:16:06,232 --> 00:16:07,098 >> Reporter: HER MOM WORKED LONG HOURS NURSING AND TEACHING, SO 542 00:16:07,300 --> 00:16:08,866 HOURS NURSING AND TEACHING, SO SARAH SAYS HER DAD WAS MORE THE 543 00:16:09,068 --> 00:16:10,268 SARAH SAYS HER DAD WAS MORE THE AT-HOME PARENT 544 00:16:10,470 --> 00:16:11,836 AT-HOME PARENT >> WE ALL LIVED ON A FARM 545 00:16:12,038 --> 00:16:13,404 >> WE ALL LIVED ON A FARM TOGETHER 546 00:16:13,606 --> 00:16:14,472 TOGETHER AND I WOULD WAKE UP AT 6:00 IN 547 00:16:14,674 --> 00:16:16,407 AND I WOULD WAKE UP AT 6:00 IN THE MORNING WITH MY DAD, AND 548 00:16:16,609 --> 00:16:17,108 THE MORNING WITH MY DAD, AND WE'D GO RIDE THE HORSES AND TAKE 549 00:16:17,310 --> 00:16:17,709 WE'D GO RIDE THE HORSES AND TAKE CARE OF EVERYTHING ON THE FARM 550 00:16:17,911 --> 00:16:18,910 CARE OF EVERYTHING ON THE FARM >> Reporter: YOU WOULD SOMETIMES 551 00:16:19,112 --> 00:16:19,744 >> Reporter: YOU WOULD SOMETIMES CALL HIM A DISNEY DAD. 552 00:16:19,946 --> 00:16:20,778 CALL HIM A DISNEY DAD. IS THAT RIGHT? 553 00:16:20,980 --> 00:16:21,846 IS THAT RIGHT? >> YEAH. 554 00:16:22,048 --> 00:16:23,414 >> YEAH. WE LIKED -- I MEAN, WE LIKED TO 555 00:16:23,616 --> 00:16:24,983 WE LIKED -- I MEAN, WE LIKED TO GO ON TRIPS ALL THE TIME 556 00:16:25,185 --> 00:16:28,119 GO ON TRIPS ALL THE TIME WE'D GO TO, LIKE, GREAT WOLF 557 00:16:28,321 --> 00:16:29,954 WE'D GO TO, LIKE, GREAT WOLF LODGE AND, I MEAN, YEAH, HE 558 00:16:30,156 --> 00:16:31,522 LODGE AND, I MEAN, YEAH, HE WAS -- HE WAS A GOOD DAD 559 00:16:31,724 --> 00:16:33,124 WAS -- HE WAS A GOOD DAD >> HE LOVED THOSE KIDS 560 00:16:33,326 --> 00:16:34,692 >> HE LOVED THOSE KIDS I CAN STILL HEAR HIM CALLING 561 00:16:34,894 --> 00:16:36,294 I CAN STILL HEAR HIM CALLING SARAH AND HANNAH HIS LITTLE 562 00:16:36,496 --> 00:16:37,362 SARAH AND HANNAH HIS LITTLE PRINCESS 563 00:16:37,564 --> 00:16:38,396 PRINCESS HE WOULD ALWAYS REFER TO THEM 564 00:16:38,598 --> 00:16:39,964 HE WOULD ALWAYS REFER TO THEM AS, "PRINCESS, PRINCESS. 565 00:16:40,166 --> 00:16:42,400 AS, "PRINCESS, PRINCESS. NO, HE LOVED THOSE CHILDREN. 566 00:16:42,602 --> 00:16:43,134 NO, HE LOVED THOSE CHILDREN. HE TOTALLY LOVED THOSE KIDS. 567 00:16:43,336 --> 00:16:46,070 HE TOTALLY LOVED THOSE KIDS. >> Reporter: MICHAEL'S LOVE FOR 568 00:16:46,272 --> 00:16:47,605 >> Reporter: MICHAEL'S LOVE FOR HIS KIDS WAS OBVIOUS 569 00:16:47,807 --> 00:16:48,239 HIS KIDS WAS OBVIOUS AND AT THE BEGINNING, AT LEAST, 570 00:16:48,441 --> 00:16:50,475 AND AT THE BEGINNING, AT LEAST, SO WAS THE LOVE BETWEEN MICHAEL 571 00:16:50,677 --> 00:16:51,542 SO WAS THE LOVE BETWEEN MICHAEL AND RENEE. 572 00:16:51,744 --> 00:16:52,577 AND RENEE. WHAT MADE THEM A GOOD COUPLE 573 00:16:52,779 --> 00:16:55,880 WHAT MADE THEM A GOOD COUPLE >> THEY BOTH HAD A VERY STRONG 574 00:16:56,082 --> 00:16:58,549 >> THEY BOTH HAD A VERY STRONG FAITH. 575 00:16:58,751 --> 00:17:00,151 FAITH. HE, TOO, WANTED TO START A 576 00:17:00,353 --> 00:17:01,319 HE, TOO, WANTED TO START A FAMILY 577 00:17:01,521 --> 00:17:02,253 FAMILY THEY JUST SEEMED LIKE THEY WERE 578 00:17:02,455 --> 00:17:03,287 THEY JUST SEEMED LIKE THEY WERE MEANT TO BE. 579 00:17:03,489 --> 00:17:04,355 MEANT TO BE. >> Reporter: THE PERFECT MATCH 580 00:17:04,557 --> 00:17:05,390 >> Reporter: THE PERFECT MATCH >> THE PERFECT MATCH 581 00:17:05,592 --> 00:17:06,991 >> THE PERFECT MATCH >> Reporter: BUT LIKE MANY 582 00:17:06,993 --> 00:17:08,926 >> Reporter: BUT LIKE MANY MARRIAGES, IT WASN'T PERFECT FOR 583 00:17:09,128 --> 00:17:10,161 MARRIAGES, IT WASN'T PERFECT FOR LONG, AND FRIENDS SAY THEY SAW 584 00:17:10,363 --> 00:17:12,263 LONG, AND FRIENDS SAY THEY SAW CRACKS OF RESENTMENT APPEAR. 585 00:17:12,465 --> 00:17:13,831 CRACKS OF RESENTMENT APPEAR. >> SHE WAS THE WORKER. 586 00:17:14,033 --> 00:17:16,834 >> SHE WAS THE WORKER. SHE WAS THE BREADWINNER, AND HE 587 00:17:17,036 --> 00:17:19,103 SHE WAS THE BREADWINNER, AND HE HAD BACKED OFF A LITTLE BIT ON 588 00:17:19,305 --> 00:17:20,772 HAD BACKED OFF A LITTLE BIT ON HIS FULL-TIME WORK 589 00:17:20,974 --> 00:17:22,640 HIS FULL-TIME WORK AND HE STAYED HOME AND WAS ABLE 590 00:17:22,842 --> 00:17:26,511 AND HE STAYED HOME AND WAS ABLE TO PLAY WITH THE KIDS. 591 00:17:26,713 --> 00:17:29,113 TO PLAY WITH THE KIDS. AND I KNOW THERE WAS A LITTLE 592 00:17:29,315 --> 00:17:30,248 AND I KNOW THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF TENSION THERE 593 00:17:30,450 --> 00:17:32,283 BIT OF TENSION THERE >> I ASSUMED THE PRESSURE OF 594 00:17:32,485 --> 00:17:33,351 >> I ASSUMED THE PRESSURE OF THREE SMALL CHILDREN 595 00:17:33,553 --> 00:17:37,055 THREE SMALL CHILDREN AND RENEE WAS NOT ONLY WORKING 596 00:17:37,257 --> 00:17:39,457 AND RENEE WAS NOT ONLY WORKING FULL TIME, SHE WAS WORKING TWO 597 00:17:39,659 --> 00:17:39,891 FULL TIME, SHE WAS WORKING TWO EXTRA PART-TIME JOBS 598 00:17:40,093 --> 00:17:40,758 EXTRA PART-TIME JOBS SO I ASSUMED, YOU KNOW, PRESSURE 599 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:42,360 SO I ASSUMED, YOU KNOW, PRESSURE OF LIFE, NO BIG DEAL 600 00:17:42,562 --> 00:17:43,394 OF LIFE, NO BIG DEAL YOU KNOW, "THEY'LL GET PAST IT." 601 00:17:43,596 --> 00:17:44,996 YOU KNOW, "THEY'LL GET PAST IT." >> Reporter: BUT THEY DIDN'T 602 00:17:45,198 --> 00:17:46,030 >> Reporter: BUT THEY DIDN'T AND A FEW MONTHS SHY OF THEIR 603 00:17:46,232 --> 00:17:47,098 AND A FEW MONTHS SHY OF THEIR TENTH ANNIVERSARY, MICHAEL HAD 604 00:17:47,300 --> 00:17:49,033 TENTH ANNIVERSARY, MICHAEL HAD MOVED OUT. 605 00:17:49,035 --> 00:17:50,802 MOVED OUT. AS THE DIVORCE DETAILS WERE 606 00:17:51,004 --> 00:17:54,505 AS THE DIVORCE DETAILS WERE WORKED OUT, THE CHILDREN SPLIT 607 00:17:54,707 --> 00:17:55,106 WORKED OUT, THE CHILDREN SPLIT THEIR TIME BETWEEN TWO PARENTS 608 00:17:55,308 --> 00:17:56,474 THEIR TIME BETWEEN TWO PARENTS WERE YOU, AT THAT POINT, SORTA 609 00:17:56,676 --> 00:17:57,141 WERE YOU, AT THAT POINT, SORTA GOING BACK AND FORTH, I GUESS, 610 00:17:57,343 --> 00:17:58,209 GOING BACK AND FORTH, I GUESS, BETWEEN HOUSES 611 00:17:58,411 --> 00:17:59,777 BETWEEN HOUSES >> YEAH. 612 00:17:59,979 --> 00:18:01,813 >> YEAH. >> Reporter: AND DID YOU ASK, 613 00:18:02,015 --> 00:18:02,947 >> Reporter: AND DID YOU ASK, LIKE, "WHY -- WHY ARE WE NOT ALL 614 00:18:03,149 --> 00:18:05,049 LIKE, "WHY -- WHY ARE WE NOT ALL UNDER ONE ROOF?" 615 00:18:05,051 --> 00:18:06,084 UNDER ONE ROOF?" >> I GUESS IT WAS SOMETHING I 616 00:18:06,286 --> 00:18:09,787 >> I GUESS IT WAS SOMETHING I NEVER REALLY ASKED SPECIFICALLY. 617 00:18:09,989 --> 00:18:11,889 NEVER REALLY ASKED SPECIFICALLY. IT WAS JUST HAVING TWO HOUSES. 618 00:18:12,091 --> 00:18:13,491 IT WAS JUST HAVING TWO HOUSES. >> Reporter: THE NIGHT RENEE 619 00:18:13,693 --> 00:18:15,093 >> Reporter: THE NIGHT RENEE DIED, MICHAEL HAD ALL THREE KIDS 620 00:18:15,295 --> 00:18:16,127 DIED, MICHAEL HAD ALL THREE KIDS WITH HIM AT HIS HOUSE NOT TOO 621 00:18:16,329 --> 00:18:17,695 WITH HIM AT HIS HOUSE NOT TOO FAR AWAY 622 00:18:17,897 --> 00:18:19,297 FAR AWAY HIS MOM WAS STAYING WITH THEM TO 623 00:18:19,499 --> 00:18:20,865 HIS MOM WAS STAYING WITH THEM TO HELP OUT 624 00:18:21,067 --> 00:18:22,433 HELP OUT DETECTIVES HEADED OVER TO TALK 625 00:18:22,635 --> 00:18:24,035 DETECTIVES HEADED OVER TO TALK TO MICHAEL RIGHT AWAY. 626 00:18:24,237 --> 00:18:25,503 TO MICHAEL RIGHT AWAY. >> WE KNOCK ON THE DOOR, AND 627 00:18:25,705 --> 00:18:26,671 >> WE KNOCK ON THE DOOR, AND MICHAEL'S MOTHER, 628 00:18:26,873 --> 00:18:27,738 MICHAEL'S MOTHER, PATRICIA PAGEL, ANSWERS THE 629 00:18:27,940 --> 00:18:28,806 PATRICIA PAGEL, ANSWERS THE DOOR 630 00:18:29,008 --> 00:18:29,874 DOOR WE ASK, "HEY, IS MICHAEL 631 00:18:30,076 --> 00:18:30,908 WE ASK, "HEY, IS MICHAEL AROUND?" 632 00:18:31,110 --> 00:18:31,976 AROUND?" AND SHE SAYS, "NO, HE'S AT A 633 00:18:32,178 --> 00:18:33,044 AND SHE SAYS, "NO, HE'S AT A MEETING. 634 00:18:33,246 --> 00:18:34,078 MEETING. AND SHE GAVE US ABOUT A HALF 635 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:35,913 AND SHE GAVE US ABOUT A HALF HOUR OR 45 MINUTES THAT HE'LL BE 636 00:18:36,115 --> 00:18:37,248 HOUR OR 45 MINUTES THAT HE'LL BE BACK AT HOME 637 00:18:37,450 --> 00:18:38,282 BACK AT HOME >> Reporter: DETECTIVES DIDN'T 638 00:18:38,484 --> 00:18:41,152 >> Reporter: DETECTIVES DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING TO HER ABOUT RENEE. 639 00:18:41,354 --> 00:18:42,720 SAY ANYTHING TO HER ABOUT RENEE. INSTEAD, THEY WANTED PATRICIA TO 640 00:18:42,922 --> 00:18:43,254 INSTEAD, THEY WANTED PATRICIA TO TELL THEM ABOUT THE NIGHT 641 00:18:43,456 --> 00:18:44,088 TELL THEM ABOUT THE NIGHT BEFORE 642 00:18:44,290 --> 00:18:44,722 BEFORE >> SHE STATED THAT THEY HAD THE 643 00:18:44,924 --> 00:18:45,690 >> SHE STATED THAT THEY HAD THE KIDS THAT NIGHT, ALL THREE 644 00:18:45,892 --> 00:18:46,757 KIDS THAT NIGHT, ALL THREE OF 'EM 645 00:18:46,959 --> 00:18:48,359 OF 'EM THEY WERE JUST HAVIN' A BONFIRE, 646 00:18:48,561 --> 00:18:49,393 THEY WERE JUST HAVIN' A BONFIRE, JUST HANGING OUT, JUST -- YOU 647 00:18:49,595 --> 00:18:50,461 JUST HANGING OUT, JUST -- YOU KNOW, JUST DOING THE NORMAL 648 00:18:50,663 --> 00:18:52,029 KNOW, JUST DOING THE NORMAL FAMILY STUFF 649 00:18:52,231 --> 00:18:54,165 FAMILY STUFF DURING THE EVENING, THE KIDS 650 00:18:54,367 --> 00:18:55,733 DURING THE EVENING, THE KIDS WERE SLEEPING IN THE FRONT ROOM, 651 00:18:55,935 --> 00:18:57,301 WERE SLEEPING IN THE FRONT ROOM, HAVING A FORT NIGHT OR A PILLOW 652 00:18:57,503 --> 00:18:58,903 HAVING A FORT NIGHT OR A PILLOW NIGHT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, 653 00:18:59,105 --> 00:19:00,738 NIGHT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHERE THEY WERE ALL SLEEPING IN 654 00:19:00,940 --> 00:19:02,073 WHERE THEY WERE ALL SLEEPING IN THE FRONT ROOM WHERE SHE SAID 655 00:19:02,275 --> 00:19:03,141 THE FRONT ROOM WHERE SHE SAID MICHAEL SLEPT WITH THEM. 656 00:19:03,343 --> 00:19:04,175 MICHAEL SLEPT WITH THEM. >> Reporter: PATRICIA TOLD THE 657 00:19:04,377 --> 00:19:06,144 >> Reporter: PATRICIA TOLD THE DETECTIVES SHE RECALLED WAKING 658 00:19:06,346 --> 00:19:07,345 DETECTIVES SHE RECALLED WAKING UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT. 659 00:19:07,547 --> 00:19:08,412 UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT. >> SHE REMEMBERS GETTING UP ONE 660 00:19:08,614 --> 00:19:09,814 >> SHE REMEMBERS GETTING UP ONE TIME DURING THE NIGHT AND SEEIN' 661 00:19:10,016 --> 00:19:11,582 TIME DURING THE NIGHT AND SEEIN' MICHAEL SLEEPING IN THE LIVING 662 00:19:11,784 --> 00:19:12,617 MICHAEL SLEEPING IN THE LIVING ROOM 663 00:19:12,819 --> 00:19:13,684 ROOM I SAID, "WELL, THERE -- WAS 664 00:19:13,886 --> 00:19:14,752 I SAID, "WELL, THERE -- WAS THERE ANY OTHER ACTIVITY THAT 665 00:19:14,954 --> 00:19:15,786 THERE ANY OTHER ACTIVITY THAT YOU REMEMBER? 666 00:19:15,988 --> 00:19:17,021 YOU REMEMBER? ANY OTHER SOUNDS OR ANYTHING 667 00:19:17,223 --> 00:19:17,922 ANY OTHER SOUNDS OR ANYTHING GOING ON?" 668 00:19:18,124 --> 00:19:18,990 GOING ON?" AND SHE SAID, "YEAH. 669 00:19:19,192 --> 00:19:20,558 AND SHE SAID, "YEAH. SHE REMEMBERED THE DOOR SOMETIME 670 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:22,160 SHE REMEMBERED THE DOOR SOMETIME DURING THE NIGHT OPENING AND 671 00:19:22,362 --> 00:19:22,693 DURING THE NIGHT OPENING AND CLOSING. 672 00:19:22,895 --> 00:19:23,728 CLOSING. SHE SAID, "MAYBE IT WAS FOR THE 673 00:19:23,930 --> 00:19:24,829 SHE SAID, "MAYBE IT WAS FOR THE DOG. 674 00:19:25,031 --> 00:19:25,863 DOG. >> Reporter: HIS ALIBI WASN'T 675 00:19:26,065 --> 00:19:26,931 >> Reporter: HIS ALIBI WASN'T EXACTLY ROCK SOLID 676 00:19:27,133 --> 00:19:27,965 EXACTLY ROCK SOLID >> NO. 677 00:19:28,167 --> 00:19:29,000 >> NO. I MEAN, YOU'RE SLEEPIN' IN THE 678 00:19:29,202 --> 00:19:30,601 I MEAN, YOU'RE SLEEPIN' IN THE FRONT ROOM WITH YOUR KIDS AND 679 00:19:30,803 --> 00:19:31,669 FRONT ROOM WITH YOUR KIDS AND YOUR MOM'S IN THE BACK BEDROOM 680 00:19:31,871 --> 00:19:32,737 YOUR MOM'S IN THE BACK BEDROOM THAT'S NOT AN ALIBI. 681 00:19:32,939 --> 00:19:33,804 THAT'S NOT AN ALIBI. SHE'S SLEEPING 682 00:19:34,006 --> 00:19:34,872 SHE'S SLEEPING SHE'S ELDERLY. 683 00:19:35,074 --> 00:19:36,474 SHE'S ELDERLY. THE KIDS ARE VERY YOUNG AND 684 00:19:36,676 --> 00:19:37,508 THE KIDS ARE VERY YOUNG AND SLEEPING 685 00:19:37,710 --> 00:19:38,075 SLEEPING >> Reporter: WHILE THEY WERE 686 00:19:38,277 --> 00:19:41,579 >> Reporter: WHILE THEY WERE TALKING TO HIS MOTHER, MICHAEL 687 00:19:41,781 --> 00:19:42,747 TALKING TO HIS MOTHER, MICHAEL RETURNED HOME. 688 00:19:42,949 --> 00:19:44,849 RETURNED HOME. DETECTIVE JOHNSON BROKE THE NEWS 689 00:19:45,051 --> 00:19:45,883 DETECTIVE JOHNSON BROKE THE NEWS TO HIM THAT RENEE WAS DEAD 690 00:19:46,085 --> 00:19:46,951 TO HIM THAT RENEE WAS DEAD BUT BECAUSE IT WAS A MURDER 691 00:19:47,153 --> 00:19:48,653 BUT BECAUSE IT WAS A MURDER INVESTIGATION, HE DIDN'T REVEAL 692 00:19:48,855 --> 00:19:49,086 INVESTIGATION, HE DIDN'T REVEAL ANY DETAILS. 693 00:19:49,288 --> 00:19:50,154 ANY DETAILS. >> "WE'RE NOT SURE IF IT WAS 694 00:19:50,356 --> 00:19:51,189 >> "WE'RE NOT SURE IF IT WAS FROM, YOU KNOW, THE SURGERY OR 695 00:19:51,391 --> 00:19:52,757 FROM, YOU KNOW, THE SURGERY OR WHAT WAS GOIN' ON. 696 00:19:52,959 --> 00:19:53,824 WHAT WAS GOIN' ON. I NEED TO TALK TO YOU. 697 00:19:54,026 --> 00:19:54,892 I NEED TO TALK TO YOU. >> Reporter: DID YOU TELL HIM 698 00:19:55,094 --> 00:19:55,927 >> Reporter: DID YOU TELL HIM THAT BEING JUST PURPOSELY A 699 00:19:56,129 --> 00:19:56,994 THAT BEING JUST PURPOSELY A LITTLE CAGEY 700 00:19:57,196 --> 00:19:58,062 LITTLE CAGEY >> YES 701 00:19:58,264 --> 00:19:59,897 >> YES >> Reporter: 'CAUSE YOU KNEW IT 702 00:20:00,099 --> 00:20:00,831 >> Reporter: 'CAUSE YOU KNEW IT WASN'T FROM THE SURGERY. 703 00:20:01,033 --> 00:20:02,266 WASN'T FROM THE SURGERY. >> I KNEW. 704 00:20:02,468 --> 00:20:03,868 >> I KNEW. I KNEW THAT, YEAH. 705 00:20:04,070 --> 00:20:05,469 I KNEW THAT, YEAH. >> Reporter: AFTER A BRIEF 706 00:20:05,671 --> 00:20:07,038 >> Reporter: AFTER A BRIEF CONVERSATION, POLICE HURRIED 707 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:08,639 CONVERSATION, POLICE HURRIED BACK TO THE CRIME SCENE. 708 00:20:08,841 --> 00:20:10,208 BACK TO THE CRIME SCENE. FOR NOW, THERE WAS WORK TO DO 709 00:20:10,410 --> 00:20:11,809 FOR NOW, THERE WAS WORK TO DO THERE AND ANOTHER MAN TO TALK 710 00:20:12,011 --> 00:20:12,843 THERE AND ANOTHER MAN TO TALK TO 711 00:20:13,045 --> 00:20:14,946 TO SOMEONE CLOSE TO THE VICTIM, AND 712 00:20:15,148 --> 00:20:17,114 SOMEONE CLOSE TO THE VICTIM, AND SOMEONE WHO WAS AT RENEE'S HOUSE 713 00:20:17,316 --> 00:20:19,217 SOMEONE WHO WAS AT RENEE'S HOUSE THAT NIGHT 714 00:20:19,419 --> 00:20:22,720 THAT NIGHT >>> COMING UP -- 715 00:20:22,922 --> 00:20:23,354 >>> COMING UP -- >> Reporter: YOU FOUND YOURSELF 716 00:20:23,556 --> 00:20:23,888 >> Reporter: YOU FOUND YOURSELF IN THE CENTER OF A MURDER 717 00:20:24,090 --> 00:20:27,558 IN THE CENTER OF A MURDER INVESTIGATION. 718 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:28,059 INVESTIGATION. >> YEAH. 719 00:20:28,261 --> 00:20:54,085 >> YEAH. >> QUESTIONS FOR RENEE'S TENAN 720 00:20:54,287 --> 00:20:55,920 >> QUESTIONS FOR RENEE'S TENAN RENEE PAGEL'S SOON-TO-BE 721 00:20:56,122 --> 00:20:57,121 RENEE PAGEL'S SOON-TO-BE EX-HUSBAND, DETECTIVE E.J. 722 00:20:57,323 --> 00:20:57,755 EX-HUSBAND, DETECTIVE E.J. JOHNSON HEADED BACK TO THE HOME 723 00:20:57,957 --> 00:20:59,290 JOHNSON HEADED BACK TO THE HOME WHERE SHE'D BEEN BRUTALLY 724 00:20:59,492 --> 00:21:00,291 WHERE SHE'D BEEN BRUTALLY STABBED. 725 00:21:00,493 --> 00:21:01,325 STABBED. THE PROPERTY WAS STILL BEING 726 00:21:01,527 --> 00:21:02,393 THE PROPERTY WAS STILL BEING SEARCHED FOR CLUES AND EVIDENCE. 727 00:21:02,595 --> 00:21:03,461 SEARCHED FOR CLUES AND EVIDENCE. THERE WAS A CURIOUS OBJECT 728 00:21:03,663 --> 00:21:04,495 THERE WAS A CURIOUS OBJECT DISCOVERED BY DEPUTIES 729 00:21:04,697 --> 00:21:05,563 DISCOVERED BY DEPUTIES OUTSIDE -- AN ORANGE FLASHLIGHT 730 00:21:05,765 --> 00:21:09,200 OUTSIDE -- AN ORANGE FLASHLIGHT FOUND IN THE GRASS BEHIND THE 731 00:21:09,402 --> 00:21:11,469 FOUND IN THE GRASS BEHIND THE HOUSE. 732 00:21:11,671 --> 00:21:12,136 HOUSE. DETECTIVE BILL MARKS SAYS 733 00:21:12,338 --> 00:21:13,070 DETECTIVE BILL MARKS SAYS INVESTIGATORS HAD A HUNCH IT HAD 734 00:21:13,272 --> 00:21:15,172 INVESTIGATORS HAD A HUNCH IT HAD BEEN LEFT THERE BY WHOEVER 735 00:21:15,374 --> 00:21:16,240 BEEN LEFT THERE BY WHOEVER KILLED RENEE 736 00:21:16,442 --> 00:21:16,874 KILLED RENEE WHY WERE YOU CONVINCED THAT THE 737 00:21:17,076 --> 00:21:17,808 WHY WERE YOU CONVINCED THAT THE KILLER HAD DROPPED THE 738 00:21:18,010 --> 00:21:18,876 KILLER HAD DROPPED THE FLASHLIGHT 739 00:21:19,078 --> 00:21:19,944 FLASHLIGHT >> THE FLASHLIGHT, IT WAS CLEAN. 740 00:21:20,146 --> 00:21:21,012 >> THE FLASHLIGHT, IT WAS CLEAN. IT WASN'T DIRTY. 741 00:21:21,214 --> 00:21:22,046 IT WASN'T DIRTY. THERE WAS NO SIGNS IT HAD BEEN 742 00:21:22,248 --> 00:21:23,648 THERE WAS NO SIGNS IT HAD BEEN OUTSIDE FOR A LONG PERIOD OF 743 00:21:23,850 --> 00:21:24,715 OUTSIDE FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME 744 00:21:24,917 --> 00:21:25,783 TIME SO WE WERE PRETTY CONVINCED THAT 745 00:21:25,985 --> 00:21:27,385 SO WE WERE PRETTY CONVINCED THAT WHOEVER HAD IT HAD RECENTLY LEFT 746 00:21:27,587 --> 00:21:28,419 WHOEVER HAD IT HAD RECENTLY LEFT IT THERE 747 00:21:28,621 --> 00:21:30,021 IT THERE >> Reporter: THE INSTINCT WOULD 748 00:21:30,223 --> 00:21:31,589 >> Reporter: THE INSTINCT WOULD LATER PROVE RIGHT. 749 00:21:31,791 --> 00:21:33,190 LATER PROVE RIGHT. BUT FOR NOW, THERE WAS SOMEBODY 750 00:21:33,392 --> 00:21:34,759 BUT FOR NOW, THERE WAS SOMEBODY THEY NEEDED TO TALK TO 751 00:21:34,961 --> 00:21:35,826 THEY NEEDED TO TALK TO RENEE HAD A TENANT -- 752 00:21:36,028 --> 00:21:37,928 RENEE HAD A TENANT -- MIKE DEKKER. 753 00:21:38,130 --> 00:21:38,963 MIKE DEKKER. HE RENTED AN APARTMENT ABOVE 754 00:21:39,165 --> 00:21:40,131 HE RENTED AN APARTMENT ABOVE RENEE'S HORSE BARN 755 00:21:40,333 --> 00:21:41,632 RENEE'S HORSE BARN WHERE WAS HE WHEN THIS MURDER 756 00:21:41,834 --> 00:21:42,667 WHERE WAS HE WHEN THIS MURDER HAPPENED 757 00:21:42,869 --> 00:21:44,235 HAPPENED >> HE WAS AT HOME. 758 00:21:44,437 --> 00:21:45,303 >> HE WAS AT HOME. >> Reporter: 30 OR SO YARDS AWAY 759 00:21:45,505 --> 00:21:46,370 >> Reporter: 30 OR SO YARDS AWAY FROM RENEE'S BEDROOM 760 00:21:46,572 --> 00:21:47,938 FROM RENEE'S BEDROOM >> AN APARTMENT UNATTACHED FROM 761 00:21:48,140 --> 00:21:49,006 >> AN APARTMENT UNATTACHED FROM THE HOUSE. 762 00:21:49,208 --> 00:21:50,608 THE HOUSE. HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY WINDOWS OR 763 00:21:50,810 --> 00:21:53,744 HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY WINDOWS OR ANYTHING AT HIS APARTMENT. 764 00:21:53,946 --> 00:21:56,981 ANYTHING AT HIS APARTMENT. IT'S JUST A DOOR WITH THE 765 00:21:57,183 --> 00:21:57,581 IT'S JUST A DOOR WITH THE WINDOW FACING TOWARDS THE REAR 766 00:21:57,783 --> 00:21:58,416 WINDOW FACING TOWARDS THE REAR HE SAID HE WAS HOME ALL NIGHT, 767 00:21:58,618 --> 00:21:59,483 HE SAID HE WAS HOME ALL NIGHT, JUST HANGING OUT AND DIDN'T HEAR 768 00:21:59,685 --> 00:22:01,052 JUST HANGING OUT AND DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING OR DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING. 769 00:22:01,254 --> 00:22:02,119 ANYTHING OR DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING. >> Reporter: MIKE DEKKER SAID HE 770 00:22:02,321 --> 00:22:03,187 >> Reporter: MIKE DEKKER SAID HE HAD NO IDEA WHAT HAPPENED. 771 00:22:03,389 --> 00:22:04,322 HAD NO IDEA WHAT HAPPENED. BUT AT THIS STAGE OF THE 772 00:22:04,524 --> 00:22:06,057 BUT AT THIS STAGE OF THE INVESTIGATION, EVERYONE WAS A 773 00:22:06,259 --> 00:22:07,958 INVESTIGATION, EVERYONE WAS A POTENTIAL SUSPECT. 774 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:08,993 POTENTIAL SUSPECT. >> "YOU WERE ON THE PROPERTY 775 00:22:09,195 --> 00:22:10,594 >> "YOU WERE ON THE PROPERTY WHEN THIS HAPPENED 776 00:22:10,796 --> 00:22:11,662 WHEN THIS HAPPENED SO WE ARE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT 777 00:22:11,864 --> 00:22:13,164 SO WE ARE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT YOU. 778 00:22:13,366 --> 00:22:13,798 YOU. WE ARE GONNA BE TALKIN' TO YOU." 779 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:15,366 WE ARE GONNA BE TALKIN' TO YOU." AND HE WAS GETTIN' A LITTLE 780 00:22:15,568 --> 00:22:16,400 AND HE WAS GETTIN' A LITTLE TESTY AND PROBABLY FRUSTRATED. 781 00:22:16,602 --> 00:22:18,002 TESTY AND PROBABLY FRUSTRATED. >> Reporter: DID YOU THINK 782 00:22:18,204 --> 00:22:20,104 >> Reporter: DID YOU THINK ANYTHING SEEMED OFF WITH MIKE AT 783 00:22:20,306 --> 00:22:20,671 ANYTHING SEEMED OFF WITH MIKE AT ALL? 784 00:22:20,873 --> 00:22:22,473 ALL? BECAUSE SOME OF RENEE'S FRIENDS 785 00:22:22,675 --> 00:22:23,808 BECAUSE SOME OF RENEE'S FRIENDS KINDA DESCRIBE HIM AS ODD. 786 00:22:24,010 --> 00:22:25,409 KINDA DESCRIBE HIM AS ODD. >> WELL, HE WAS ODD. 787 00:22:25,611 --> 00:22:28,079 >> WELL, HE WAS ODD. I MEAN, HE WAS LIVING ABOVE 788 00:22:28,281 --> 00:22:29,146 I MEAN, HE WAS LIVING ABOVE TECHNICALLY HORSE STALLS 789 00:22:29,348 --> 00:22:31,048 TECHNICALLY HORSE STALLS I MEAN, IT'S AN APARTMENT. 790 00:22:31,250 --> 00:22:32,316 I MEAN, IT'S AN APARTMENT. BUT HE WAS LIVING IN THIS. 791 00:22:32,518 --> 00:22:34,185 BUT HE WAS LIVING IN THIS. HE'S -- HE'S A GROWN MAN 792 00:22:34,387 --> 00:22:35,453 HE'S -- HE'S A GROWN MAN HE REALLY DIDN'T HAVE A JOB. 793 00:22:35,655 --> 00:22:37,054 HE REALLY DIDN'T HAVE A JOB. NO RELATIONSHIPS THAT WE WERE 794 00:22:37,256 --> 00:22:38,656 NO RELATIONSHIPS THAT WE WERE AWARE OF 795 00:22:38,858 --> 00:22:39,690 AWARE OF SO THAT IS A LITTLE ODD. 796 00:22:39,892 --> 00:22:40,758 SO THAT IS A LITTLE ODD. >> Reporter: IT SEEMS THAT IF 797 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:42,693 >> Reporter: IT SEEMS THAT IF YOU LOOK AT MIKE DEKKER'S ALIBI, 798 00:22:42,895 --> 00:22:43,427 YOU LOOK AT MIKE DEKKER'S ALIBI, IT'S PRETTY WEAK 799 00:22:43,629 --> 00:22:44,995 IT'S PRETTY WEAK >> HIS ALIBI IS PRETTY WEAK. 800 00:22:45,197 --> 00:22:47,131 >> HIS ALIBI IS PRETTY WEAK. THERE'S NOBODY ACCOUNTING FOR 801 00:22:47,333 --> 00:22:48,165 THERE'S NOBODY ACCOUNTING FOR HIM. 802 00:22:48,367 --> 00:22:49,767 HIM. THERE'S NOTHING THAT SAYS HE 803 00:22:49,969 --> 00:22:51,235 THERE'S NOTHING THAT SAYS HE DIDN'T GO NEXT DOOR AND DO THIS 804 00:22:51,437 --> 00:22:52,403 DIDN'T GO NEXT DOOR AND DO THIS TO RENEE 805 00:22:52,605 --> 00:22:53,971 TO RENEE >> Reporter: DEKKER AGREED TO 806 00:22:54,173 --> 00:22:55,039 >> Reporter: DEKKER AGREED TO GIVE HIS DNA AND FINGERPRINTS 807 00:22:55,241 --> 00:22:57,174 GIVE HIS DNA AND FINGERPRINTS AND CONSENTED TO A SEARCH OF THE 808 00:22:57,376 --> 00:22:59,810 AND CONSENTED TO A SEARCH OF THE APARTMENT. 809 00:23:00,012 --> 00:23:00,845 APARTMENT. THE DEPUTIES TOOK HIS COMPUTER 810 00:23:01,047 --> 00:23:02,446 THE DEPUTIES TOOK HIS COMPUTER AND THREE KNIVES FOR TESTING 811 00:23:02,648 --> 00:23:03,514 AND THREE KNIVES FOR TESTING THEN, AS THEY SPOKE TO FAMILY 812 00:23:03,716 --> 00:23:07,351 THEN, AS THEY SPOKE TO FAMILY AND FRIENDS IN RENEE'S CIRCLE, A 813 00:23:07,353 --> 00:23:08,953 AND FRIENDS IN RENEE'S CIRCLE, A STORY EMERGED. 814 00:23:09,155 --> 00:23:10,654 STORY EMERGED. RENEE'S SISTER, MICHELLE, 815 00:23:10,856 --> 00:23:12,223 RENEE'S SISTER, MICHELLE, THOUGHT MIKE DEKKER WAS 816 00:23:12,425 --> 00:23:13,791 THOUGHT MIKE DEKKER WAS INTERESTED IN RENEE. 817 00:23:13,993 --> 00:23:14,859 INTERESTED IN RENEE. >> THERE WAS TALK FROM MICHELLE. 818 00:23:15,061 --> 00:23:16,727 >> THERE WAS TALK FROM MICHELLE. SHE DID INSINUATE THAT THEY 819 00:23:16,929 --> 00:23:18,028 SHE DID INSINUATE THAT THEY MIGHT'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH 820 00:23:18,230 --> 00:23:19,096 MIGHT'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH ONE -- WITH ONE ANOTHER. 821 00:23:19,298 --> 00:23:21,532 ONE -- WITH ONE ANOTHER. >> Reporter: FRIENDS ALSO 822 00:23:21,734 --> 00:23:22,767 >> Reporter: FRIENDS ALSO MENTIONED HE WAS HAVING 823 00:23:22,969 --> 00:23:24,368 MENTIONED HE WAS HAVING FINANCIAL TROUBLES 824 00:23:24,570 --> 00:23:25,936 FINANCIAL TROUBLES >> THERE WAS TALK FROM JOYCE 825 00:23:26,138 --> 00:23:27,838 >> THERE WAS TALK FROM JOYCE THAT MIKE DEKKER WASN'T PAYIN' 826 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:29,106 THAT MIKE DEKKER WASN'T PAYIN' HIS RENT ON TIME OR THAT HE 827 00:23:29,308 --> 00:23:30,141 HIS RENT ON TIME OR THAT HE WAS -- HE WAS LATE 828 00:23:30,343 --> 00:23:31,208 WAS -- HE WAS LATE >> Reporter: WHEN THEY HEARD ALL 829 00:23:31,410 --> 00:23:33,110 >> Reporter: WHEN THEY HEARD ALL THAT, INVESTIGATORS ASKED HIM TO 830 00:23:33,312 --> 00:23:34,412 THAT, INVESTIGATORS ASKED HIM TO COME DOWN TO THE STATION FOR A 831 00:23:34,614 --> 00:23:35,946 COME DOWN TO THE STATION FOR A MORE DETAILED INTERVIEW. 832 00:23:36,148 --> 00:23:38,048 MORE DETAILED INTERVIEW. >> IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT 833 00:23:38,250 --> 00:23:39,884 >> IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT THE BOOK IS WIDE OPEN WITH HIM, 834 00:23:40,086 --> 00:23:41,218 THE BOOK IS WIDE OPEN WITH HIM, AND THAT YOU'VE GOTTA START 835 00:23:41,420 --> 00:23:42,787 AND THAT YOU'VE GOTTA START FLIPPIN' THE PAGES OF -- ALL 836 00:23:42,989 --> 00:23:43,320 FLIPPIN' THE PAGES OF -- ALL RIGHT, NO, THIS IS NOT THE 837 00:23:43,522 --> 00:23:46,357 RIGHT, NO, THIS IS NOT THE REASON WHY HE WOULD DO IT OR 838 00:23:46,559 --> 00:23:48,492 REASON WHY HE WOULD DO IT OR WOULDN'T DO IT 839 00:23:48,694 --> 00:23:49,794 WOULDN'T DO IT WE WANT TO LOOK AT IT ALL. 840 00:23:49,996 --> 00:23:50,594 WE WANT TO LOOK AT IT ALL. >> Reporter: YOU FOUND YOURSELF 841 00:23:50,796 --> 00:23:51,629 >> Reporter: YOU FOUND YOURSELF IN THE CENTER OF A MURDER 842 00:23:51,831 --> 00:23:53,197 IN THE CENTER OF A MURDER INVESTIGATION. 843 00:23:53,399 --> 00:23:54,265 INVESTIGATION. >> YEAH. 844 00:23:54,467 --> 00:23:54,799 >> YEAH. NOT FUN. 845 00:23:55,001 --> 00:23:56,100 NOT FUN. ESPECIALLY WHEN THINGS WEREN'T 846 00:23:56,302 --> 00:23:56,901 ESPECIALLY WHEN THINGS WEREN'T GOING VERY WELL IN YOUR LIFE TO 847 00:23:57,103 --> 00:23:57,435 GOING VERY WELL IN YOUR LIFE TO BEGIN WITH 848 00:23:57,637 --> 00:23:58,502 BEGIN WITH >> Reporter: WAS THIS A TIME IN 849 00:23:58,704 --> 00:23:59,537 >> Reporter: WAS THIS A TIME IN YOUR LIFE WHERE YOU WERE A 850 00:23:59,739 --> 00:24:01,105 YOUR LIFE WHERE YOU WERE A LITTLE DOWN ON YOUR LUCK 851 00:24:01,307 --> 00:24:02,173 LITTLE DOWN ON YOUR LUCK >> IT WAS ONE OF THE LOWER 852 00:24:02,375 --> 00:24:03,741 >> IT WAS ONE OF THE LOWER POINTS IN MY LIFE. 853 00:24:03,943 --> 00:24:04,809 POINTS IN MY LIFE. I WAS DOWNSIZED OUT OF A JOB 854 00:24:05,011 --> 00:24:05,876 I WAS DOWNSIZED OUT OF A JOB AND THEN THIS HAPPENED A FEW 855 00:24:06,078 --> 00:24:08,512 AND THEN THIS HAPPENED A FEW MONTHS LATER 856 00:24:08,714 --> 00:24:11,682 MONTHS LATER SO IT ADDED A WHOLE LOT OF CHAOS 857 00:24:11,884 --> 00:24:13,250 SO IT ADDED A WHOLE LOT OF CHAOS TO -- TO -- TO MY PERSONAL LIFE. 858 00:24:13,452 --> 00:24:15,386 TO -- TO -- TO MY PERSONAL LIFE. >> Reporter: A PERSONAL LIFE 859 00:24:15,588 --> 00:24:17,388 >> Reporter: A PERSONAL LIFE THAT WAS BEING EXAMINED IN A 860 00:24:17,590 --> 00:24:20,124 THAT WAS BEING EXAMINED IN A FOUR-HOUR INTERROGATION. 861 00:24:20,326 --> 00:24:24,195 FOUR-HOUR INTERROGATION. WHAT DO YOU ALL TALK ABOUT FOR 862 00:24:24,397 --> 00:24:29,233 WHAT DO YOU ALL TALK ABOUT FOR FOUR HOURS 863 00:24:29,435 --> 00:24:29,800 FOUR HOURS >> REMINDS ME OF TV, THE GOO 864 00:24:30,002 --> 00:24:30,835 >> REMINDS ME OF TV, THE GOO COP/BAD COP SCENARIO AT TIMES. 865 00:24:31,037 --> 00:24:31,869 COP/BAD COP SCENARIO AT TIMES. BUT THEY'RE JUST, YOU KNOW, 866 00:24:32,071 --> 00:24:33,804 BUT THEY'RE JUST, YOU KNOW, VERIFYING MY STORY 867 00:24:34,006 --> 00:24:34,338 VERIFYING MY STORY WANTED TO -- SOME OF THOSE 868 00:24:34,540 --> 00:24:35,039 WANTED TO -- SOME OF THOSE ACCUSATIONS THAT WERE FALSE 869 00:24:35,241 --> 00:24:36,106 ACCUSATIONS THAT WERE FALSE ABOUT ME THAT THEY WANTED TO 870 00:24:36,308 --> 00:24:37,408 ABOUT ME THAT THEY WANTED TO REALLY THOROUGHLY QUESTION ME 871 00:24:37,610 --> 00:24:38,476 REALLY THOROUGHLY QUESTION ME ABOUT THAT 872 00:24:38,678 --> 00:24:39,276 ABOUT THAT >> Reporter: YOU MEAN, LIKE, THE 873 00:24:39,478 --> 00:24:40,344 >> Reporter: YOU MEAN, LIKE, THE ROMANTIC CONNECTION? 874 00:24:40,546 --> 00:24:41,912 ROMANTIC CONNECTION? >> AND THOSE KINDA THINGS THERE 875 00:24:42,114 --> 00:24:42,980 >> AND THOSE KINDA THINGS THERE THAT WERE SO UNTRUE. 876 00:24:43,182 --> 00:24:44,048 THAT WERE SO UNTRUE. >> Reporter: ONE OF THE RUMORS 877 00:24:44,250 --> 00:24:45,082 >> Reporter: ONE OF THE RUMORS WAS THAT RENEE HAD TURNED HIM 878 00:24:45,284 --> 00:24:46,150 WAS THAT RENEE HAD TURNED HIM DOWN 879 00:24:46,352 --> 00:24:47,218 DOWN ONE OF THE FRIENDS HAD SAID 880 00:24:47,420 --> 00:24:48,819 ONE OF THE FRIENDS HAD SAID SOMETHING ABOUT THAT YOU HAD 881 00:24:49,021 --> 00:24:49,854 SOMETHING ABOUT THAT YOU HAD ASKED RENEE OUT FOR PIZZA AND 882 00:24:50,056 --> 00:24:50,354 ASKED RENEE OUT FOR PIZZA AND THAT SHE DIDN'T WANNA GO 883 00:24:50,556 --> 00:24:53,090 THAT SHE DIDN'T WANNA GO AND THAT PERHAPS THERE WAS 884 00:24:53,292 --> 00:24:55,226 AND THAT PERHAPS THERE WAS SOMETHING MORE 885 00:24:55,428 --> 00:24:55,726 SOMETHING MORE >> YEAH, NOTHING 886 00:24:55,928 --> 00:24:57,328 >> YEAH, NOTHING NOTHING LIKE THAT. 887 00:24:57,530 --> 00:24:58,395 NOTHING LIKE THAT. >> Reporter: SO IT NEVER 888 00:24:58,597 --> 00:25:00,998 >> Reporter: SO IT NEVER HAPPENED 889 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:02,066 HAPPENED >> THERE WAS A TIME, MAYBE A 890 00:25:02,268 --> 00:25:03,100 >> THERE WAS A TIME, MAYBE A MONTH BEFORE SHE WAS MURDERED, 891 00:25:03,302 --> 00:25:04,702 MONTH BEFORE SHE WAS MURDERED, THAT SHE WAS HAVING A STRESSFUL 892 00:25:04,904 --> 00:25:05,769 THAT SHE WAS HAVING A STRESSFUL TIME 893 00:25:05,971 --> 00:25:07,371 TIME AND I SAID, "HEY, LET'S JUST 894 00:25:07,573 --> 00:25:09,306 AND I SAID, "HEY, LET'S JUST GRAB A PIECE OF PIZZA. 895 00:25:09,508 --> 00:25:10,541 GRAB A PIECE OF PIZZA. YOU KNOW, "LET'S GO OUT THERE, 896 00:25:10,743 --> 00:25:11,575 YOU KNOW, "LET'S GO OUT THERE, TAKE THE KIDS" TYPE THING, AS A 897 00:25:11,777 --> 00:25:13,210 TAKE THE KIDS" TYPE THING, AS A FRIEND WOULD DO FOR SOMEONE 898 00:25:13,412 --> 00:25:15,279 FRIEND WOULD DO FOR SOMEONE GOING THROUGH A HARD TIME. 899 00:25:15,481 --> 00:25:17,181 GOING THROUGH A HARD TIME. >> Reporter: AN OFFER, HE SAYS, 900 00:25:17,383 --> 00:25:19,517 >> Reporter: AN OFFER, HE SAYS, RENEE NEVER TOOK HIM UP ON 901 00:25:19,719 --> 00:25:21,118 RENEE NEVER TOOK HIM UP ON INVESTIGATORS ALSO WANTED TO 902 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,454 INVESTIGATORS ALSO WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT HIS FINANCIAL WOES 903 00:25:23,656 --> 00:25:25,856 KNOW ABOUT HIS FINANCIAL WOES AND IF THEY CAUSED ANY ISSUES 904 00:25:26,058 --> 00:25:26,891 AND IF THEY CAUSED ANY ISSUES WITH HIS LANDLORD RENEE. 905 00:25:27,093 --> 00:25:27,958 WITH HIS LANDLORD RENEE. >> I WAS STRUGGLING, BEING 906 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,060 >> I WAS STRUGGLING, BEING UNEMPLOYED 907 00:25:30,262 --> 00:25:33,864 UNEMPLOYED IT -- IT WAS TOUGH 908 00:25:34,066 --> 00:25:37,101 IT -- IT WAS TOUGH SO WORKING ODD JOBS THERE. 909 00:25:37,303 --> 00:25:38,035 SO WORKING ODD JOBS THERE. SO I WASN'T ALWAYS PAYING FULL 910 00:25:38,237 --> 00:25:38,569 SO I WASN'T ALWAYS PAYING FULL RENT AT TIMES. 911 00:25:38,771 --> 00:25:39,603 RENT AT TIMES. BUT I WAS UP TO DATE WITH HER AT 912 00:25:39,805 --> 00:25:40,671 BUT I WAS UP TO DATE WITH HER AT THAT MOMENT. 913 00:25:40,873 --> 00:25:42,072 THAT MOMENT. >> Reporter: WAS RENEE -- DID 914 00:25:42,274 --> 00:25:43,307 >> Reporter: WAS RENEE -- DID SHE EVER GET FRUSTRATED WITH 915 00:25:43,509 --> 00:25:44,875 SHE EVER GET FRUSTRATED WITH YOU? 916 00:25:45,077 --> 00:25:46,477 YOU? >> THAT, I -- I DON'T KNOW 917 00:25:46,679 --> 00:25:48,579 >> THAT, I -- I DON'T KNOW I'M SURE SHE DID 918 00:25:48,781 --> 00:25:49,947 I'M SURE SHE DID BUT SHE ALSO KNEW THE 919 00:25:50,149 --> 00:25:51,215 BUT SHE ALSO KNEW THE CIRCUMSTANCE THAT I WAS IN, TOO. 920 00:25:51,417 --> 00:25:52,283 CIRCUMSTANCE THAT I WAS IN, TOO. AND -- AND WE COMMUNICATED 921 00:25:52,485 --> 00:25:53,851 AND -- AND WE COMMUNICATED >> Reporter: AT THE CRIME SCENE, 922 00:25:54,053 --> 00:25:55,452 >> Reporter: AT THE CRIME SCENE, THE DETECTIVES NOTED THERE WAS 923 00:25:55,654 --> 00:25:56,487 THE DETECTIVES NOTED THERE WAS NO FORCED ENTRY. 924 00:25:56,689 --> 00:25:58,088 NO FORCED ENTRY. THEY HEARD HE'D BEEN IN THE 925 00:25:58,290 --> 00:25:59,557 THEY HEARD HE'D BEEN IN THE HOUSE MORE THAN ONCE 926 00:25:59,759 --> 00:26:00,724 HOUSE MORE THAN ONCE ANOTHER REASON TO LOOK AT 927 00:26:00,926 --> 00:26:02,293 ANOTHER REASON TO LOOK AT MIKE DEKKER. 928 00:26:02,495 --> 00:26:03,894 MIKE DEKKER. >> MIKE DEKKER WAS FAMILIAR WITH 929 00:26:04,096 --> 00:26:04,929 >> MIKE DEKKER WAS FAMILIAR WITH THE HOME, FAMILIAR WITH THE 930 00:26:05,131 --> 00:26:06,030 THE HOME, FAMILIAR WITH THE KIDS, THE LAYOUT, YOU KNOW 931 00:26:06,232 --> 00:26:08,265 KIDS, THE LAYOUT, YOU KNOW HE, I BELIEVE, EVEN HAD A KEY TO 932 00:26:08,467 --> 00:26:08,666 HE, I BELIEVE, EVEN HAD A KEY TO THE HOME 933 00:26:08,868 --> 00:26:10,234 THE HOME >> Reporter: DEKKER SAID IT WAS 934 00:26:10,436 --> 00:26:11,802 >> Reporter: DEKKER SAID IT WAS TRUE BUT INSISTED THAT WAS ALL 935 00:26:12,004 --> 00:26:12,870 TRUE BUT INSISTED THAT WAS ALL ABOVE BOARD, TOO 936 00:26:13,072 --> 00:26:14,471 ABOVE BOARD, TOO >> THERE WERE TIMES, IF THEY 937 00:26:14,673 --> 00:26:15,539 >> THERE WERE TIMES, IF THEY NEEDED SOMEONE TO WATCH THE 938 00:26:15,541 --> 00:26:16,574 NEEDED SOMEONE TO WATCH THE KIDS, ESPECIALLY AFTER MIKE 939 00:26:16,776 --> 00:26:18,208 KIDS, ESPECIALLY AFTER MIKE MOVED OUT, THEN I WOULD BABYSIT 940 00:26:18,410 --> 00:26:19,209 MOVED OUT, THEN I WOULD BABYSIT THE KIDS AND -- AND WATCH THEM 941 00:26:19,411 --> 00:26:20,778 THE KIDS AND -- AND WATCH THEM FOR HER. 942 00:26:20,980 --> 00:26:22,346 FOR HER. >> Reporter: APPARENTLY RENEE 943 00:26:22,548 --> 00:26:22,980 >> Reporter: APPARENTLY RENEE HAD TOLD A FRIEND THAT SOMETIMES 944 00:26:23,182 --> 00:26:24,481 HAD TOLD A FRIEND THAT SOMETIMES YOU WOULD WALK INTO THE HOUSE 945 00:26:24,683 --> 00:26:26,050 YOU WOULD WALK INTO THE HOUSE WITHOUT PERMISSION, WHICH GOT 946 00:26:26,252 --> 00:26:27,818 WITHOUT PERMISSION, WHICH GOT HER A LITTLE UPSET 947 00:26:28,020 --> 00:26:29,753 HER A LITTLE UPSET >> THAT NEVER HAPPENED 948 00:26:29,955 --> 00:26:31,855 >> THAT NEVER HAPPENED >> Reporter: KENT COUNTY 949 00:26:32,057 --> 00:26:32,890 >> Reporter: KENT COUNTY ASSISTANT PROSECUTOR 950 00:26:33,092 --> 00:26:34,491 ASSISTANT PROSECUTOR KELLEE KONCKI, WHO GOT INVOLVED 951 00:26:34,693 --> 00:26:35,593 KELLEE KONCKI, WHO GOT INVOLVED IN THE INVESTIGATION EARLY ON, 952 00:26:35,795 --> 00:26:36,594 IN THE INVESTIGATION EARLY ON, THOUGHT DEKKER AND HIS DENIALS 953 00:26:36,796 --> 00:26:38,195 THOUGHT DEKKER AND HIS DENIALS NEEDED TO BE THOROUGHLY 954 00:26:38,397 --> 00:26:39,263 NEEDED TO BE THOROUGHLY INVESTIGATED 955 00:26:39,465 --> 00:26:41,865 INVESTIGATED WHY DID YOU FEEL THAT WAY? 956 00:26:42,067 --> 00:26:44,501 WHY DID YOU FEEL THAT WAY? >> BECAUSE HE'S THE ONLY ONE ON 957 00:26:44,703 --> 00:26:46,971 >> BECAUSE HE'S THE ONLY ONE ON THE PROPERTY AT THE TIME OF THE 958 00:26:47,173 --> 00:26:49,673 THE PROPERTY AT THE TIME OF THE INCIDENT 959 00:26:49,875 --> 00:26:50,741 INCIDENT WE HAD HEARD FROM ONE OR MORE 960 00:26:50,943 --> 00:26:52,343 WE HAD HEARD FROM ONE OR MORE WITNESSES THAT HE HAD ASKED 961 00:26:52,545 --> 00:26:53,377 WITNESSES THAT HE HAD ASKED RENEE OUT TO DINNER, MAY HAVE 962 00:26:53,579 --> 00:26:54,445 RENEE OUT TO DINNER, MAY HAVE GONE TO PIZZA HUT WITH HER ONE 963 00:26:54,647 --> 00:26:55,479 GONE TO PIZZA HUT WITH HER ONE TIME 964 00:26:55,681 --> 00:26:57,081 TIME AND THAT WAS -- THERE WAS SOME 965 00:26:57,283 --> 00:26:58,115 AND THAT WAS -- THERE WAS SOME INCONSISTENCIES ON THAT. 966 00:26:58,317 --> 00:26:59,183 INCONSISTENCIES ON THAT. YOU CAN'T IGNORE IT. 967 00:26:59,385 --> 00:27:01,285 YOU CAN'T IGNORE IT. SO WE WENT AT HIM. 968 00:27:01,487 --> 00:27:02,953 SO WE WENT AT HIM. WE WENT AT HIM PRETTY HARD 969 00:27:03,155 --> 00:27:06,657 WE WENT AT HIM PRETTY HARD >>> COMING UP -- 970 00:27:06,859 --> 00:27:11,362 >>> COMING UP -- >> SHE SAID, "JUST MAKE SURE YOU 971 00:27:11,564 --> 00:27:11,762 >> SHE SAID, "JUST MAKE SURE YOU STAY CLEAR OF HIM. 972 00:27:11,964 --> 00:27:13,030 STAY CLEAR OF HIM. >> BAD BLOOD BETWEEN RENEE AND 973 00:27:13,232 --> 00:27:14,164 >> BAD BLOOD BETWEEN RENEE AND HER BROTHER-IN-LAW 974 00:27:14,366 --> 00:27:15,032 HER BROTHER-IN-LAW >> HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE BEST 975 00:27:15,234 --> 00:27:15,599 >> HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE BEST MAN AT THEIR WEDDING, BUT HE 976 00:27:15,601 --> 00:27:32,683 MAN AT THEIR WEDDING, BUT HE BACKED OUT 977 00:27:32,885 --> 00:27:34,885 BACKED OUT >>> Reporter: INVESTIGATORS WERE 978 00:27:35,087 --> 00:27:36,186 >>> Reporter: INVESTIGATORS WERE SUSPICIOUS OF RENEE'S TENANT, 979 00:27:36,388 --> 00:27:37,521 SUSPICIOUS OF RENEE'S TENANT, MIKE DEKKER. 980 00:27:37,723 --> 00:27:38,589 MIKE DEKKER. HOW ARE YOU HANDLING THIS? 981 00:27:38,791 --> 00:27:40,724 HOW ARE YOU HANDLING THIS? >> I WAS LABELED AS A PERSON OF 982 00:27:40,926 --> 00:27:41,759 >> I WAS LABELED AS A PERSON OF INTEREST, SURE 983 00:27:41,961 --> 00:27:45,062 INTEREST, SURE BUT I HAD NOTHING TO HIDE, SO, 984 00:27:45,264 --> 00:27:47,698 BUT I HAD NOTHING TO HIDE, SO, YOU KNOW, I'LL COOPERATE AS BEST 985 00:27:47,900 --> 00:27:49,266 YOU KNOW, I'LL COOPERATE AS BEST I CAN WITH THEM. 986 00:27:49,468 --> 00:27:50,868 I CAN WITH THEM. >> Reporter: MIKE ANSWERED THEIR 987 00:27:51,070 --> 00:27:51,902 >> Reporter: MIKE ANSWERED THEIR QUESTIONS FOR HOURS, AND THEN 988 00:27:52,104 --> 00:27:53,504 QUESTIONS FOR HOURS, AND THEN WENT OVER IT ALL AGAIN HOOKED UP 989 00:27:53,706 --> 00:27:55,072 WENT OVER IT ALL AGAIN HOOKED UP TO A POLYGRAPH MACHINE TWO DAYS 990 00:27:55,274 --> 00:27:56,640 TO A POLYGRAPH MACHINE TWO DAYS LATER. 991 00:27:56,842 --> 00:27:57,708 LATER. DID THEY PUT YOU THROUGH THE 992 00:27:57,910 --> 00:27:59,309 DID THEY PUT YOU THROUGH THE WRINGER? 993 00:27:59,511 --> 00:28:00,878 WRINGER? >> THEY DID THEIR JOB. 994 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:01,945 >> THEY DID THEIR JOB. I MEAN, POLYGRAPH TEST WASN'T 995 00:28:02,147 --> 00:28:03,213 I MEAN, POLYGRAPH TEST WASN'T FUN. 996 00:28:03,415 --> 00:28:04,048 FUN. >> Reporter: DID THE POLICE 997 00:28:04,250 --> 00:28:05,616 >> Reporter: DID THE POLICE STRAIGHT-UP ASK YOU, "DID YOU 998 00:28:05,818 --> 00:28:06,684 STRAIGHT-UP ASK YOU, "DID YOU KILL RENEE?" 999 00:28:06,886 --> 00:28:09,286 KILL RENEE?" >> ON THE POLYGRAPH. 1000 00:28:09,488 --> 00:28:10,354 >> ON THE POLYGRAPH. >> Reporter: AND WHAT DID YOU 1001 00:28:10,556 --> 00:28:13,490 >> Reporter: AND WHAT DID YOU TELL THEM? 1002 00:28:13,692 --> 00:28:15,626 TELL THEM? >> NO, I DIDN'T. 1003 00:28:15,828 --> 00:28:17,194 >> NO, I DIDN'T. >> Reporter: HE PASSED THE LIE 1004 00:28:17,396 --> 00:28:19,296 >> Reporter: HE PASSED THE LIE DETECTOR TEST, AND THE MORE THEY 1005 00:28:19,498 --> 00:28:20,898 DETECTOR TEST, AND THE MORE THEY LOOKED, THE LESS THEY FOUND. 1006 00:28:21,100 --> 00:28:22,499 LOOKED, THE LESS THEY FOUND. THE RUMORS ABOUT THEIR ROMANTIC 1007 00:28:22,701 --> 00:28:23,534 THE RUMORS ABOUT THEIR ROMANTIC CONNECTION WEREN'T TRUE. 1008 00:28:23,736 --> 00:28:25,669 CONNECTION WEREN'T TRUE. >> WE FOUND ZERO TO CONNECT HIM 1009 00:28:25,671 --> 00:28:27,237 >> WE FOUND ZERO TO CONNECT HIM TO THAT MURDER 1010 00:28:27,439 --> 00:28:29,106 TO THAT MURDER WE FOUND NO MOTIVE 1011 00:28:29,308 --> 00:28:30,541 WE FOUND NO MOTIVE WE FOUND NO REASON WHY HE WOULD 1012 00:28:30,743 --> 00:28:31,475 WE FOUND NO REASON WHY HE WOULD BE INVOLVED IN THIS. 1013 00:28:31,677 --> 00:28:33,043 BE INVOLVED IN THIS. >> Reporter: IT APPEARED THAT HE 1014 00:28:33,245 --> 00:28:34,111 >> Reporter: IT APPEARED THAT HE AND RENEE GOT ALONG FINE 1015 00:28:34,313 --> 00:28:35,145 AND RENEE GOT ALONG FINE >> SHE LIKED MIKE A LOT. 1016 00:28:35,347 --> 00:28:36,747 >> SHE LIKED MIKE A LOT. MIKE PRETTY MUCH KEPT TO 1017 00:28:36,949 --> 00:28:37,815 MIKE PRETTY MUCH KEPT TO HIMSELF. 1018 00:28:38,017 --> 00:28:39,383 HIMSELF. HE WAS AN EXCELLENT TENANT, A 1019 00:28:39,585 --> 00:28:41,018 HE WAS AN EXCELLENT TENANT, A NICE GUY 1020 00:28:41,220 --> 00:28:42,586 NICE GUY >> Reporter: IN FACT, RENEE 1021 00:28:42,788 --> 00:28:44,188 >> Reporter: IN FACT, RENEE SEEMED TO GET ALONG WITH 1022 00:28:44,390 --> 00:28:45,222 SEEMED TO GET ALONG WITH EVERYBODY. 1023 00:28:45,424 --> 00:28:46,824 EVERYBODY. SO IT WAS UNUSUAL, ALARMING 1024 00:28:47,026 --> 00:28:47,891 SO IT WAS UNUSUAL, ALARMING EVEN, WHEN DETECTIVES HEARD 1025 00:28:48,093 --> 00:28:49,460 EVEN, WHEN DETECTIVES HEARD ABOUT ANOTHER MAN WHO FRIENDS 1026 00:28:49,662 --> 00:28:52,129 ABOUT ANOTHER MAN WHO FRIENDS SAID RENEE DID NOT GET ALONG 1027 00:28:52,331 --> 00:28:54,231 SAID RENEE DID NOT GET ALONG WITH 1028 00:28:54,433 --> 00:28:55,799 WITH >> SHE JUST BASICALLY TOLD ME 1029 00:28:56,001 --> 00:28:59,002 >> SHE JUST BASICALLY TOLD ME THAT SHE DIDN'T LIKE HIM 1030 00:28:59,204 --> 00:29:00,070 THAT SHE DIDN'T LIKE HIM AND IT WASN'T LIKE HER TO SAY 1031 00:29:00,272 --> 00:29:02,172 AND IT WASN'T LIKE HER TO SAY SHE DIDN'T LIKE A HUMAN BEING. 1032 00:29:02,374 --> 00:29:04,274 SHE DIDN'T LIKE A HUMAN BEING. THAT WAS VERY OUT OF CHARACTER 1033 00:29:04,476 --> 00:29:05,843 THAT WAS VERY OUT OF CHARACTER FOR RENEE. 1034 00:29:06,045 --> 00:29:07,444 FOR RENEE. >> Reporter: THE MAN WAS HER 1035 00:29:07,646 --> 00:29:08,479 >> Reporter: THE MAN WAS HER BROTHER-IN-LAW, BO PAGEL 1036 00:29:08,681 --> 00:29:10,614 BROTHER-IN-LAW, BO PAGEL HAD BO EVER SAID OR DONE 1037 00:29:10,816 --> 00:29:12,182 HAD BO EVER SAID OR DONE ANYTHING TO RENEE THAT WAS OF 1038 00:29:12,384 --> 00:29:15,886 ANYTHING TO RENEE THAT WAS OF CONCERN? 1039 00:29:16,088 --> 00:29:20,991 CONCERN? >> SHE JUST WOULD SAY, "I JUST 1040 00:29:21,193 --> 00:29:23,060 >> SHE JUST WOULD SAY, "I JUST DON'T GET GOOD VIBES FROM HIM. 1041 00:29:23,262 --> 00:29:24,461 DON'T GET GOOD VIBES FROM HIM. >> I REMEMBER AT HER WEDDING 1042 00:29:24,663 --> 00:29:26,563 >> I REMEMBER AT HER WEDDING RECEPTION, SHE TOLD ME BO WAS 1043 00:29:26,765 --> 00:29:28,065 RECEPTION, SHE TOLD ME BO WAS GONNA BE THERE 1044 00:29:28,267 --> 00:29:28,665 GONNA BE THERE AND SHE SAID, "JUST MAKE SURE 1045 00:29:28,867 --> 00:29:29,366 AND SHE SAID, "JUST MAKE SURE YOU STAY CLEAR OF HIM. 1046 00:29:29,568 --> 00:29:30,300 YOU STAY CLEAR OF HIM. >> Reporter: RENEE HAD TOLD 1047 00:29:30,502 --> 00:29:32,436 >> Reporter: RENEE HAD TOLD PEOPLE THAT SHE FELT VERY 1048 00:29:32,638 --> 00:29:33,470 PEOPLE THAT SHE FELT VERY UNCOMFORTABLE AROUND BO. 1049 00:29:33,672 --> 00:29:34,505 UNCOMFORTABLE AROUND BO. >> YEAH, WE HEARD A LOT OF THAT, 1050 00:29:34,707 --> 00:29:35,572 >> YEAH, WE HEARD A LOT OF THAT, "HE DIDN'T LIKE HER," WHICH WAS 1051 00:29:35,774 --> 00:29:37,174 "HE DIDN'T LIKE HER," WHICH WAS ANOTHER REASON TO BE SUSPICIOUS 1052 00:29:37,376 --> 00:29:38,208 ANOTHER REASON TO BE SUSPICIOUS OF HIM 1053 00:29:38,410 --> 00:29:39,276 OF HIM HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE BEST 1054 00:29:39,478 --> 00:29:40,878 HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE BEST MAN IN THEIR WEDDING, AND HE 1055 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:41,945 MAN IN THEIR WEDDING, AND HE BACKED OUT, ACCORDING TO THE 1056 00:29:42,147 --> 00:29:43,547 BACKED OUT, ACCORDING TO THE PEOPLE THAT WE TALKED TO AND 1057 00:29:43,749 --> 00:29:44,982 PEOPLE THAT WE TALKED TO AND FAMILY MEMBERS 1058 00:29:45,184 --> 00:29:47,084 FAMILY MEMBERS SO, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS SOME BAD 1059 00:29:47,286 --> 00:29:49,887 SO, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS SOME BAD BLOOD THERE. 1060 00:29:50,089 --> 00:29:53,290 BLOOD THERE. >> WHEN THEY WERE MARRIED, BO 1061 00:29:53,492 --> 00:29:54,925 >> WHEN THEY WERE MARRIED, BO WAS UPSET BY IT, DID NOT APPROVE 1062 00:29:55,127 --> 00:29:55,459 WAS UPSET BY IT, DID NOT APPROVE OF RENEE, AND CUT OFF THE 1063 00:29:55,661 --> 00:29:58,061 OF RENEE, AND CUT OFF THE RELATIONSHIP -- ANY RELATIONSHIP 1064 00:29:58,263 --> 00:29:58,595 RELATIONSHIP -- ANY RELATIONSHIP WITH MICHAEL 1065 00:29:58,797 --> 00:29:59,663 WITH MICHAEL >> Reporter: JOYCE SAYS RENEE 1066 00:29:59,865 --> 00:30:00,731 >> Reporter: JOYCE SAYS RENEE DIDN'T WANT ANYTHING TO DO 1067 00:30:00,933 --> 00:30:04,234 DIDN'T WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH BO. 1068 00:30:04,436 --> 00:30:04,735 WITH BO. >> SHE WAS AFRAID OF HER 1069 00:30:04,937 --> 00:30:06,336 >> SHE WAS AFRAID OF HER DAUGHTERS EVER BEING ALONE WITH 1070 00:30:06,538 --> 00:30:07,604 DAUGHTERS EVER BEING ALONE WITH BO 1071 00:30:07,806 --> 00:30:08,205 BO SHE NEVER WANTED HER DAUGHTERS 1072 00:30:08,407 --> 00:30:08,972 SHE NEVER WANTED HER DAUGHTERS TO EVER BE ALONE WITH HIM. 1073 00:30:09,174 --> 00:30:10,040 TO EVER BE ALONE WITH HIM. >> Reporter: FRIENDS SAY THE 1074 00:30:10,242 --> 00:30:11,608 >> Reporter: FRIENDS SAY THE ANIMOSITY BETWEEN THE TWO GOT SO 1075 00:30:11,810 --> 00:30:12,676 ANIMOSITY BETWEEN THE TWO GOT SO BAD THAT WHEN BO'S WIFE 1076 00:30:12,878 --> 00:30:14,278 BAD THAT WHEN BO'S WIFE UNEXPECTEDLY DIED, RENEE JUMPED 1077 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,048 UNEXPECTEDLY DIED, RENEE JUMPED TO A DARK CONCLUSION 1078 00:30:18,250 --> 00:30:19,583 TO A DARK CONCLUSION >> AFTER SHE PASSED AWAY, RENEE 1079 00:30:19,785 --> 00:30:21,218 >> AFTER SHE PASSED AWAY, RENEE SAID, "I THINK BO KILLED HER." 1080 00:30:21,420 --> 00:30:22,252 SAID, "I THINK BO KILLED HER." >> Reporter: REALLY? 1081 00:30:22,454 --> 00:30:23,320 >> Reporter: REALLY? >> "I THINK BO POISONED HER. 1082 00:30:23,522 --> 00:30:24,955 >> "I THINK BO POISONED HER. >> Reporter: SHE SAID THAT TO 1083 00:30:25,157 --> 00:30:27,024 >> Reporter: SHE SAID THAT TO YOU? 1084 00:30:27,226 --> 00:30:29,126 YOU? >> SHE SAID THAT TO ME 1085 00:30:29,328 --> 00:30:30,194 >> SHE SAID THAT TO ME >> Reporter: THAT SURE GOT THE 1086 00:30:30,396 --> 00:30:31,261 >> Reporter: THAT SURE GOT THE ATTENTION OF THE DETECTIVES. 1087 00:30:31,463 --> 00:30:33,397 ATTENTION OF THE DETECTIVES. THEY DROVE OUT TO TALK TO HIM A 1088 00:30:33,599 --> 00:30:34,431 THEY DROVE OUT TO TALK TO HIM A WEEK AFTER THE MURDER. 1089 00:30:34,633 --> 00:30:35,499 WEEK AFTER THE MURDER. WHAT'S HIS DEMEANOR LIKE 1090 00:30:35,701 --> 00:30:37,067 WHAT'S HIS DEMEANOR LIKE >> YOU KNOW, HE'S SURPRISED THAT 1091 00:30:37,269 --> 00:30:40,337 >> YOU KNOW, HE'S SURPRISED THAT WE'RE THERE. 1092 00:30:40,539 --> 00:30:42,239 WE'RE THERE. BUT HE WANTS TO TALK TO US AND 1093 00:30:42,441 --> 00:30:43,841 BUT HE WANTS TO TALK TO US AND KIND OF GIVES US THE SAME 1094 00:30:44,043 --> 00:30:45,943 KIND OF GIVES US THE SAME STATEMENT OF, "YEAH, I DIDN'T 1095 00:30:46,145 --> 00:30:46,977 STATEMENT OF, "YEAH, I DIDN'T LIKE RENEE 1096 00:30:47,179 --> 00:30:48,045 LIKE RENEE I DIDN'T THINK SHE WAS RIGHT FOR 1097 00:30:48,247 --> 00:30:49,112 I DIDN'T THINK SHE WAS RIGHT FOR MIKE." 1098 00:30:49,314 --> 00:30:50,147 MIKE." AND AT THAT POINT, WE WANTED TO 1099 00:30:50,349 --> 00:30:51,181 AND AT THAT POINT, WE WANTED TO GET HIS ALIBI. 1100 00:30:51,383 --> 00:30:52,249 GET HIS ALIBI. "WHERE WERE YOU AT 1101 00:30:52,451 --> 00:30:53,317 "WHERE WERE YOU AT WHAT WERE YOU DOING DURING THIS 1102 00:30:53,519 --> 00:30:54,384 WHAT WERE YOU DOING DURING THIS TIME OF RENEE'S DEATH? 1103 00:30:54,586 --> 00:30:55,419 TIME OF RENEE'S DEATH? >> Reporter: WHAT IS HIS ALIBI 1104 00:30:55,621 --> 00:30:56,987 >> Reporter: WHAT IS HIS ALIBI >> HE WAS A TRUCKER. 1105 00:30:57,189 --> 00:30:58,589 >> HE WAS A TRUCKER. HE WAS ON THE ROAD 1106 00:30:58,791 --> 00:30:59,656 HE WAS ON THE ROAD AND THEN HE GOES HOME. 1107 00:30:59,858 --> 00:31:01,225 AND THEN HE GOES HOME. AND THEN IN THE MORNIN', HE 1108 00:31:01,427 --> 00:31:03,360 AND THEN IN THE MORNIN', HE WAKES UP AND GOES CANOEING OR 1109 00:31:03,562 --> 00:31:04,928 WAKES UP AND GOES CANOEING OR KAYAKING WITH HIS DAUGHTER 1110 00:31:05,130 --> 00:31:05,963 KAYAKING WITH HIS DAUGHTER >> Reporter: BO SAID HE WAS HOME 1111 00:31:06,165 --> 00:31:07,564 >> Reporter: BO SAID HE WAS HOME IN SAGINAW, ONLY TWO HOURS AWAY 1112 00:31:07,766 --> 00:31:08,599 IN SAGINAW, ONLY TWO HOURS AWAY FROM THE CRIME SCENE, NEAR 1113 00:31:08,801 --> 00:31:11,935 FROM THE CRIME SCENE, NEAR GRAND RAPIDS 1114 00:31:12,137 --> 00:31:14,238 GRAND RAPIDS DETECTIVES THOUGHT THAT WAS 1115 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,340 DETECTIVES THOUGHT THAT WAS PLENTY OF TIME TO MAKE A 1116 00:31:16,542 --> 00:31:16,907 PLENTY OF TIME TO MAKE A ROUND-TRIP DURING THE NIGHT. 1117 00:31:17,109 --> 00:31:17,875 ROUND-TRIP DURING THE NIGHT. WHAT IS YOUR GUT TELLING YOU AS 1118 00:31:18,077 --> 00:31:18,942 WHAT IS YOUR GUT TELLING YOU AS YOU'RE TALKING TO BO 1119 00:31:19,144 --> 00:31:20,010 YOU'RE TALKING TO BO >> I MEAN, I THOUGHT HE WAS A 1120 00:31:20,212 --> 00:31:21,578 >> I MEAN, I THOUGHT HE WAS A LITTLE ODD 1121 00:31:21,780 --> 00:31:22,646 LITTLE ODD BUT AGAIN, HE WAS COOPERATIVE 1122 00:31:22,848 --> 00:31:26,817 BUT AGAIN, HE WAS COOPERATIVE AND WILLING TO TALK TO US. 1123 00:31:27,019 --> 00:31:28,852 AND WILLING TO TALK TO US. AND WE DID ASK HIM WHEN THE LAST 1124 00:31:29,054 --> 00:31:30,420 AND WE DID ASK HIM WHEN THE LAST TIME HE WAS IN GRAND RAPIDS 1125 00:31:30,622 --> 00:31:33,724 TIME HE WAS IN GRAND RAPIDS BECAUSE WHEN I WAS WALKING 1126 00:31:33,926 --> 00:31:34,324 BECAUSE WHEN I WAS WALKING AROUND HIS CAR, I SAW A "GRAND 1127 00:31:34,526 --> 00:31:36,360 AROUND HIS CAR, I SAW A "GRAND RAPIDS PRESS" NEWSPAPER IN 1128 00:31:36,562 --> 00:31:36,894 RAPIDS PRESS" NEWSPAPER IN THERE. 1129 00:31:37,096 --> 00:31:38,462 THERE. SO I SAW THE DATE ON THERE, AND 1130 00:31:38,664 --> 00:31:39,496 SO I SAW THE DATE ON THERE, AND I'M LIKE, "HEY, WHEN WAS THE 1131 00:31:39,698 --> 00:31:40,597 I'M LIKE, "HEY, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU WERE THERE?" 1132 00:31:40,799 --> 00:31:41,632 LAST TIME YOU WERE THERE?" >> Reporter: HE TOLD THEM HE HAD 1133 00:31:41,834 --> 00:31:42,699 >> Reporter: HE TOLD THEM HE HAD BEEN IN GRAND RAPIDS RECENTLY, 1134 00:31:42,901 --> 00:31:43,767 BEEN IN GRAND RAPIDS RECENTLY, BUT NOT ON THE NIGHT OF THE 1135 00:31:43,969 --> 00:31:44,902 BUT NOT ON THE NIGHT OF THE MURDER 1136 00:31:45,104 --> 00:31:45,869 MURDER THEY PULLED UP HIS PHONE RECORDS 1137 00:31:45,871 --> 00:31:46,470 THEY PULLED UP HIS PHONE RECORDS TO TRACK HIS MOVEMENTS, BUT -- 1138 00:31:46,672 --> 00:31:47,437 TO TRACK HIS MOVEMENTS, BUT -- >> THERE WAS NO ACTIVITY 1139 00:31:47,639 --> 00:31:48,505 >> THERE WAS NO ACTIVITY >> Reporter: HE COULD'VE LEFT 1140 00:31:48,707 --> 00:31:49,640 >> Reporter: HE COULD'VE LEFT HIS PHONE AT HOME. 1141 00:31:49,842 --> 00:31:50,607 HIS PHONE AT HOME. >> YUP 1142 00:31:50,809 --> 00:31:51,675 >> YUP >> Reporter: THIS IS ANOTHER 1143 00:31:51,877 --> 00:31:53,243 >> Reporter: THIS IS ANOTHER ALIBI THAT'S ALSO NOT ROCK 1144 00:31:53,445 --> 00:31:53,777 ALIBI THAT'S ALSO NOT ROCK SOLID. 1145 00:31:53,979 --> 00:32:00,918 SOLID. >> ABSOLUTELY. 1146 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,353 >> ABSOLUTELY. >> Reporter: BEFORE LEAVING BO, 1147 00:32:03,555 --> 00:32:03,987 >> Reporter: BEFORE LEAVING BO, DETECTIVE JNS JOHNSON TOOK NOTE 1148 00:32:04,189 --> 00:32:06,123 DETECTIVE JNS JOHNSON TOOK NOTE OF SOMETHING ELSE, SOMETHING 1149 00:32:06,325 --> 00:32:06,657 OF SOMETHING ELSE, SOMETHING SUSPICIOUS 1150 00:32:06,859 --> 00:32:07,691 SUSPICIOUS >> THERE WAS A SCRATCH ON HIS 1151 00:32:07,893 --> 00:32:08,759 >> THERE WAS A SCRATCH ON HIS ARM THAT WE DOCUMENTED 1152 00:32:08,961 --> 00:32:09,960 ARM THAT WE DOCUMENTED IT JUMPED OUT, BUT IT WAS JUST 1153 00:32:10,162 --> 00:32:10,594 IT JUMPED OUT, BUT IT WAS JUST SOMETHIN' THAT WE DOCUMENTED AND 1154 00:32:10,796 --> 00:32:11,395 SOMETHIN' THAT WE DOCUMENTED AND ASKED FOR AN EXPLANATION FOR 1155 00:32:11,597 --> 00:32:12,462 ASKED FOR AN EXPLANATION FOR >> Reporter: BO SAID HIS DOG HAD 1156 00:32:12,664 --> 00:32:13,764 >> Reporter: BO SAID HIS DOG HAD SCRATCHED HIM. 1157 00:32:13,966 --> 00:32:14,564 SCRATCHED HIM. BUT WHAT ABOUT RENEE'S SUSPICION 1158 00:32:14,766 --> 00:32:19,536 BUT WHAT ABOUT RENEE'S SUSPICION THAT BO HAD POISONED HIS WIFE? 1159 00:32:19,738 --> 00:32:22,205 THAT BO HAD POISONED HIS WIFE? INVESTIGATORS GOT IN TOUCH WITH 1160 00:32:22,407 --> 00:32:22,606 INVESTIGATORS GOT IN TOUCH WITH SACK WILL SAB ARE 1161 00:32:22,808 --> 00:32:23,106 SACK WILL SAB ARE SAGINAW'S COUNTY SHERIFF 1162 00:32:23,308 --> 00:32:23,373 SAGINAW'S COUNTY SHERIFF DEPARTMENT 1163 00:32:23,575 --> 00:32:24,408 DEPARTMENT THE SAGINAW DETECTIVES CONFIRMED 1164 00:32:24,610 --> 00:32:25,042 THE SAGINAW DETECTIVES CONFIRMED HER DEATH HAD BEEN FROM NATURAL 1165 00:32:25,244 --> 00:32:25,475 HER DEATH HAD BEEN FROM NATURAL CAUSES 1166 00:32:25,677 --> 00:32:26,543 CAUSES SO RENEE'S SPECULATION WAS OFF 1167 00:32:26,745 --> 00:32:27,878 SO RENEE'S SPECULATION WAS OFF BASE 1168 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:28,946 BASE THERE WAS NEVER ANY PROOF OF, 1169 00:32:29,148 --> 00:32:29,479 THERE WAS NEVER ANY PROOF OF, BUT -- 1170 00:32:29,681 --> 00:32:30,514 BUT -- >> THERE WAS NEVER ANY PROOF OF 1171 00:32:30,716 --> 00:32:31,548 >> THERE WAS NEVER ANY PROOF OF THAT, NOPE 1172 00:32:31,750 --> 00:32:32,716 THAT, NOPE >> Reporter: BUT STILL, WHAT ARE 1173 00:32:32,918 --> 00:32:33,684 >> Reporter: BUT STILL, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING OF BO AT THIS TIME? 1174 00:32:33,886 --> 00:32:34,751 YOU THINKING OF BO AT THIS TIME? >> WAS VERY SUSPICIOUS OF HIM. 1175 00:32:34,953 --> 00:32:36,320 >> WAS VERY SUSPICIOUS OF HIM. >> Reporter: WERE YOU THINKING 1176 00:32:36,522 --> 00:32:37,354 >> Reporter: WERE YOU THINKING THAT IT'S A POSSIBILITY THAT BO 1177 00:32:37,556 --> 00:32:38,422 THAT IT'S A POSSIBILITY THAT BO KILLED RENEE 1178 00:32:38,624 --> 00:32:39,456 KILLED RENEE >> I FELT STRONGLY THAT WE HAD 1179 00:32:39,658 --> 00:32:41,191 >> I FELT STRONGLY THAT WE HAD TO INVESTIGATE HIM SO THAT WE 1180 00:32:41,393 --> 00:32:42,125 TO INVESTIGATE HIM SO THAT WE COULD EITHER IMPLICATE HIM OR 1181 00:32:42,327 --> 00:32:43,193 COULD EITHER IMPLICATE HIM OR ELIMINATE HIM. 1182 00:32:43,395 --> 00:32:44,828 ELIMINATE HIM. >> Reporter: ONE OF THE PEOPLE 1183 00:32:45,030 --> 00:32:46,396 >> Reporter: ONE OF THE PEOPLE IN RENEE'S ORBIT SHARING STORIES 1184 00:32:46,598 --> 00:32:47,431 IN RENEE'S ORBIT SHARING STORIES ABOUT BO WAS RENEE'S SISTER, 1185 00:32:47,633 --> 00:32:49,032 ABOUT BO WAS RENEE'S SISTER, MICHELLE 1186 00:32:49,234 --> 00:32:50,634 MICHELLE BUT AS THEY SPOKE TO THE SISTER 1187 00:32:50,836 --> 00:32:51,702 BUT AS THEY SPOKE TO THE SISTER MORE AND MORE, HER STORY WOULD 1188 00:32:51,904 --> 00:32:54,338 MORE AND MORE, HER STORY WOULD TAKE THE INVESTIGATION IN A 1189 00:32:54,540 --> 00:32:56,974 TAKE THE INVESTIGATION IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION ALTOGETHER 1190 00:32:57,176 --> 00:32:59,843 DIFFERENT DIRECTION ALTOGETHER >>> COMING UP -- 1191 00:33:00,045 --> 00:33:01,745 >>> COMING UP -- >> SHE WAS SO DEEPLY WOUNDED AND 1192 00:33:01,947 --> 00:33:03,313 >> SHE WAS SO DEEPLY WOUNDED AND SO HURT. 1193 00:33:03,515 --> 00:33:04,948 SO HURT. >> RENEE'S SISTER AND RENEE'S 1194 00:33:05,150 --> 00:33:06,483 >> RENEE'S SISTER AND RENEE'S HUSBAND, HOW CLOSE WERE THEY 1195 00:33:06,685 --> 00:33:07,551 HUSBAND, HOW CLOSE WERE THEY >> Reporter: DID ANYONE THINK 1196 00:33:07,753 --> 00:33:08,585 >> Reporter: DID ANYONE THINK THAT THERE WAS A POSSIBILITY 1197 00:33:08,787 --> 00:33:09,653 THAT THERE WAS A POSSIBILITY >> OF HER HAVING AN AFFAIR 1198 00:33:09,855 --> 00:33:11,488 >> OF HER HAVING AN AFFAIR ABSOLUTELY 1199 00:33:11,690 --> 00:33:13,056 ABSOLUTELY >> Reporter: MICHELLE AND 1200 00:33:13,258 --> 00:33:34,878 >> Reporter: MICHELLE AND MICHAEL? 1201 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:35,445 MICHAEL? >>> Reporter: SEVEN-YEAR-OLD 1202 00:33:35,647 --> 00:33:36,046 >>> Reporter: SEVEN-YEAR-OLD SARAH PAGEL KNEW NOTHING ABOUT 1203 00:33:36,248 --> 00:33:37,047 SARAH PAGEL KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THE MURDER INVESTIGATION 1204 00:33:37,249 --> 00:33:39,049 THE MURDER INVESTIGATION SWIRLING AROUND HER MOTHER'S 1205 00:33:39,251 --> 00:33:41,585 SWIRLING AROUND HER MOTHER'S DEATH. 1206 00:33:41,787 --> 00:33:42,552 DEATH. BUT SHE ALWAYS KNEW THIS 1207 00:33:42,754 --> 00:33:44,654 BUT SHE ALWAYS KNEW THIS >> I GUESS THAT I NEVER DOUBTED 1208 00:33:44,856 --> 00:33:45,722 >> I GUESS THAT I NEVER DOUBTED THAT SHE LOVED ME. 1209 00:33:45,924 --> 00:33:46,790 THAT SHE LOVED ME. AND I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING 1210 00:33:46,992 --> 00:33:48,125 AND I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING REALLY IMPORTANT, THAT I NEVER 1211 00:33:48,327 --> 00:33:48,892 REALLY IMPORTANT, THAT I NEVER DOUBTED THAT EITHER OF MY 1212 00:33:49,094 --> 00:33:49,926 DOUBTED THAT EITHER OF MY PARENTS LOVED ME 1213 00:33:50,128 --> 00:33:51,528 PARENTS LOVED ME >> Reporter: AND AS A YOUNG 1214 00:33:51,730 --> 00:33:53,130 >> Reporter: AND AS A YOUNG CHILD, SHE FELT CHERISHED AND 1215 00:33:53,332 --> 00:33:54,297 CHILD, SHE FELT CHERISHED AND PROTECTED BY THE ONLY PARENT SHE 1216 00:33:54,499 --> 00:33:56,299 PROTECTED BY THE ONLY PARENT SHE HAD LEFT -- HER DAD. 1217 00:33:56,501 --> 00:33:57,334 HAD LEFT -- HER DAD. SHE SAYS SHE ALSO FELT LOVED BY 1218 00:33:57,536 --> 00:33:58,935 SHE SAYS SHE ALSO FELT LOVED BY HER MOTHER'S FAMILY. 1219 00:33:59,137 --> 00:34:01,571 HER MOTHER'S FAMILY. WHEN IT CAME TO YOUR MOM'S SIDE 1220 00:34:01,773 --> 00:34:02,606 WHEN IT CAME TO YOUR MOM'S SIDE OF THE FAMILY, WHO DID YOU 1221 00:34:02,808 --> 00:34:04,708 OF THE FAMILY, WHO DID YOU MOSTLY SPEND TIME WITH 1222 00:34:04,910 --> 00:34:06,810 MOSTLY SPEND TIME WITH >> WITH HER SISTER AND HER DAD 1223 00:34:07,012 --> 00:34:07,878 >> WITH HER SISTER AND HER DAD >> Reporter: MICHELLE? 1224 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:08,445 >> Reporter: MICHELLE? >> YEAH, MICHELLE, HER DAD, 1225 00:34:08,647 --> 00:34:09,479 >> YEAH, MICHELLE, HER DAD, FORREST. 1226 00:34:09,681 --> 00:34:10,514 FORREST. I'M VERY CLOSE WITH MY 1227 00:34:10,716 --> 00:34:11,548 I'M VERY CLOSE WITH MY AUNT MICHELLE. 1228 00:34:11,750 --> 00:34:12,616 AUNT MICHELLE. YEAH, WE HAVE A GREAT 1229 00:34:12,818 --> 00:34:15,052 YEAH, WE HAVE A GREAT RELATIONSHIP 1230 00:34:15,254 --> 00:34:15,685 RELATIONSHIP I THINK I -- I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT 1231 00:34:15,887 --> 00:34:17,921 I THINK I -- I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I'D DO WITHOUT HER, HONESTLY 1232 00:34:18,123 --> 00:34:22,859 I'D DO WITHOUT HER, HONESTLY >> Reporter: AUNT MICHELLE WAS 1233 00:34:23,061 --> 00:34:24,127 >> Reporter: AUNT MICHELLE WAS RENEE'S OLDER SISTER 1234 00:34:24,329 --> 00:34:24,761 RENEE'S OLDER SISTER FRIENDS SAID THE SIBLING DYNAMIC 1235 00:34:24,963 --> 00:34:26,663 FRIENDS SAID THE SIBLING DYNAMIC BETWEEN THE TWO HAD ALWAYS BEEN 1236 00:34:26,865 --> 00:34:27,731 BETWEEN THE TWO HAD ALWAYS BEEN COMPLICATED. 1237 00:34:27,933 --> 00:34:28,765 COMPLICATED. >> MICHELLE LOVED THE KIDS 1238 00:34:28,967 --> 00:34:31,668 >> MICHELLE LOVED THE KIDS SHE WAS ALWAYS A PART OF, LIKE, 1239 00:34:31,870 --> 00:34:33,603 SHE WAS ALWAYS A PART OF, LIKE, CHRISTMASES, AND I KNOW SHE WENT 1240 00:34:33,805 --> 00:34:34,204 CHRISTMASES, AND I KNOW SHE WENT OVER TO RENEE'S A LOT BECAUSE 1241 00:34:34,406 --> 00:34:36,440 OVER TO RENEE'S A LOT BECAUSE SHE DID HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP 1242 00:34:36,642 --> 00:34:36,973 SHE DID HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH THE KIDS. 1243 00:34:37,175 --> 00:34:38,742 WITH THE KIDS. BUT THEY NEVER DID ANYTHING JUST 1244 00:34:38,944 --> 00:34:40,143 BUT THEY NEVER DID ANYTHING JUST AS SISTERS 1245 00:34:40,345 --> 00:34:41,178 AS SISTERS THEY WOULD NEVER GO OUT TO EAT 1246 00:34:41,380 --> 00:34:43,280 THEY WOULD NEVER GO OUT TO EAT OR GO SHOPPING OR THINGS THAT 1247 00:34:43,482 --> 00:34:45,382 OR GO SHOPPING OR THINGS THAT MAYBE SISTERS WOULD DO 1248 00:34:45,584 --> 00:34:46,983 MAYBE SISTERS WOULD DO >> Reporter: LAURA KNEW THE TWO 1249 00:34:47,185 --> 00:34:49,820 >> Reporter: LAURA KNEW THE TWO SISTERS SINCE CHILDHOOD. 1250 00:34:50,022 --> 00:34:50,387 SISTERS SINCE CHILDHOOD. >> THEY WERE SO CLOSE IN AGE 1251 00:34:50,589 --> 00:34:51,221 >> THEY WERE SO CLOSE IN AGE THAT MICHELLE WOULD HAVE SOME 1252 00:34:51,423 --> 00:34:53,857 THAT MICHELLE WOULD HAVE SOME FRIENDS, AND MAYBE THEY WOULD 1253 00:34:54,059 --> 00:34:55,959 FRIENDS, AND MAYBE THEY WOULD COME OVER, AND THEN RENEE WOULD 1254 00:34:56,161 --> 00:34:57,561 COME OVER, AND THEN RENEE WOULD JOIN IN. 1255 00:34:57,763 --> 00:34:58,595 JOIN IN. AND THOSE FRIENDS WOULD BECOME 1256 00:34:58,797 --> 00:35:00,163 AND THOSE FRIENDS WOULD BECOME RENEE'S FRIENDS, AND THEN 1257 00:35:00,365 --> 00:35:01,231 RENEE'S FRIENDS, AND THEN MICHELLE WOULD BE LEFT OUT 1258 00:35:01,433 --> 00:35:03,333 MICHELLE WOULD BE LEFT OUT SO I THINK THERE WAS JEALOUSY. 1259 00:35:03,535 --> 00:35:04,935 SO I THINK THERE WAS JEALOUSY. AND I THINK THERE WAS ALWAYS 1260 00:35:05,137 --> 00:35:08,105 AND I THINK THERE WAS ALWAYS THAT COMPETITION BETWEEN THE 1261 00:35:08,307 --> 00:35:09,139 THAT COMPETITION BETWEEN THE SISTERS. 1262 00:35:09,341 --> 00:35:10,173 SISTERS. >> Reporter: BUT AS 1263 00:35:10,375 --> 00:35:12,976 >> Reporter: BUT AS INVESTIGATORS LOOKED INTO 1264 00:35:13,178 --> 00:35:14,444 INVESTIGATORS LOOKED INTO RENEE'S MURDER, A MORE RECENT 1265 00:35:14,646 --> 00:35:16,213 RENEE'S MURDER, A MORE RECENT STORY GOT THEIR ATTENTION. 1266 00:35:16,415 --> 00:35:17,581 STORY GOT THEIR ATTENTION. THEY FOUND OUT THAT IN RENEE'S 1267 00:35:17,783 --> 00:35:19,182 THEY FOUND OUT THAT IN RENEE'S DIVORCE, MICHELLE HAD SIDED WITH 1268 00:35:19,384 --> 00:35:20,217 DIVORCE, MICHELLE HAD SIDED WITH MICHAEL. 1269 00:35:20,419 --> 00:35:21,918 MICHAEL. THEY ASKED HER ABOUT IT. 1270 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:23,386 THEY ASKED HER ABOUT IT. >> SHE WAS BLUNT ABOUT THE 1271 00:35:23,588 --> 00:35:23,920 >> SHE WAS BLUNT ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP 1272 00:35:24,122 --> 00:35:25,489 RELATIONSHIP IT'S NOT LIKE SHE WAS TRYIN' TO 1273 00:35:25,691 --> 00:35:26,523 IT'S NOT LIKE SHE WAS TRYIN' TO SUGARCOAT ANYTHING 'CAUSE HER 1274 00:35:26,725 --> 00:35:27,591 SUGARCOAT ANYTHING 'CAUSE HER SISTER HAD DIED. 1275 00:35:27,793 --> 00:35:29,693 SISTER HAD DIED. SHE WAS SAYIN' THERE WAS ISSUES 1276 00:35:29,895 --> 00:35:31,761 SHE WAS SAYIN' THERE WAS ISSUES AND SHE BELIEVED THE MAJORITY OF 1277 00:35:31,963 --> 00:35:32,829 AND SHE BELIEVED THE MAJORITY OF THE PROBLEMS WERE FROM RENEE 1278 00:35:33,031 --> 00:35:34,431 THE PROBLEMS WERE FROM RENEE YOU KNOW, WHETHER SHE WAS NOT 1279 00:35:34,633 --> 00:35:36,032 YOU KNOW, WHETHER SHE WAS NOT BEING PATIENT WITH MIKE, SHE WAS 1280 00:35:36,234 --> 00:35:37,167 BEING PATIENT WITH MIKE, SHE WAS EXPECTING TOO MUCH OF MIKE, SHE 1281 00:35:37,369 --> 00:35:38,668 EXPECTING TOO MUCH OF MIKE, SHE WAS POINTING AT RENEE. 1282 00:35:38,870 --> 00:35:41,037 WAS POINTING AT RENEE. >> Reporter: HER SISTER'S JUST 1283 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:41,838 >> Reporter: HER SISTER'S JUST BEEN MURDERED, AND NOW SHE'S 1284 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:42,873 BEEN MURDERED, AND NOW SHE'S GOING INTO DETAILS LIKE THAT 1285 00:35:43,075 --> 00:35:43,940 GOING INTO DETAILS LIKE THAT >> IT JUST SEEMED LIKE THERE WAS 1286 00:35:44,142 --> 00:35:46,576 >> IT JUST SEEMED LIKE THERE WAS NOT A SISTERLY CONNECTION 1287 00:35:46,778 --> 00:35:48,145 NOT A SISTERLY CONNECTION BETWEEN THE TWO. 1288 00:35:48,347 --> 00:35:50,280 BETWEEN THE TWO. >> Reporter: BUT THERE WAS MORE. 1289 00:35:50,482 --> 00:35:51,348 >> Reporter: BUT THERE WAS MORE. IT CAME TO LIGHT THAT DURING THE 1290 00:35:51,550 --> 00:35:53,450 IT CAME TO LIGHT THAT DURING THE DIVORCE, RENEE'S HUSBAND MICHAEL 1291 00:35:53,652 --> 00:35:55,051 DIVORCE, RENEE'S HUSBAND MICHAEL AND MICHELLE TALKED TO EACH 1292 00:35:55,253 --> 00:35:57,888 AND MICHELLE TALKED TO EACH OTHER ON THE PHONE 1293 00:35:58,090 --> 00:35:58,722 OTHER ON THE PHONE A LOT. 1294 00:35:58,924 --> 00:36:00,423 A LOT. SOMETIMES EIGHT HOURS A DAY. 1295 00:36:00,625 --> 00:36:01,024 SOMETIMES EIGHT HOURS A DAY. >> IT WAS PRETTY SHOCKING HOW 1296 00:36:01,226 --> 00:36:02,225 >> IT WAS PRETTY SHOCKING HOW MUCH SHE TALKED TO HIM 1297 00:36:02,427 --> 00:36:02,993 MUCH SHE TALKED TO HIM >> Reporter: THESE TWO WERE IN 1298 00:36:03,195 --> 00:36:05,095 >> Reporter: THESE TWO WERE IN CONSTANT COMMUNICATION 1299 00:36:05,297 --> 00:36:07,731 CONSTANT COMMUNICATION >> YEAH. 1300 00:36:07,933 --> 00:36:08,798 >> YEAH. I WAS SUSPICIOUS OF THAT 1301 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:10,400 I WAS SUSPICIOUS OF THAT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF 1302 00:36:10,602 --> 00:36:12,502 BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF COMMUNICATION -- YOU KNOW, THEY 1303 00:36:12,704 --> 00:36:14,104 COMMUNICATION -- YOU KNOW, THEY SEEMED PRETTY CLOSE. 1304 00:36:14,306 --> 00:36:16,206 SEEMED PRETTY CLOSE. >> Reporter: RENEE WAS NOT AT 1305 00:36:16,408 --> 00:36:18,375 >> Reporter: RENEE WAS NOT AT ALL HAPPY ABOUT HER SISTER'S 1306 00:36:18,577 --> 00:36:19,409 ALL HAPPY ABOUT HER SISTER'S CLOSE CONTACT WITH HER EX-TO-BE. 1307 00:36:19,611 --> 00:36:20,977 CLOSE CONTACT WITH HER EX-TO-BE. >> SHE WAS SO DEEPLY WOUNDED AND 1308 00:36:21,179 --> 00:36:22,045 >> SHE WAS SO DEEPLY WOUNDED AND SO HURT, SO BETRAYED BY HER 1309 00:36:22,247 --> 00:36:23,079 SO HURT, SO BETRAYED BY HER SISTER 1310 00:36:23,281 --> 00:36:24,147 SISTER >> Reporter: DID ANYONE THINK 1311 00:36:24,149 --> 00:36:25,182 >> Reporter: DID ANYONE THINK THAT THERE WAS A POSSIBILITY 1312 00:36:25,384 --> 00:36:26,516 THAT THERE WAS A POSSIBILITY THAT - 1313 00:36:26,718 --> 00:36:27,050 THAT - >> OF HER HAVING AN AFFAIR 1314 00:36:27,252 --> 00:36:29,085 >> OF HER HAVING AN AFFAIR ABSOLUTELY 1315 00:36:29,287 --> 00:36:31,054 ABSOLUTELY >> Reporter: MICHELLE AND 1316 00:36:31,256 --> 00:36:31,288 >> Reporter: MICHELLE AND MICHAEL? 1317 00:36:31,490 --> 00:36:32,255 MICHAEL? >> ABSOLUTELY. 1318 00:36:32,457 --> 00:36:33,323 >> ABSOLUTELY. YEAH 1319 00:36:33,525 --> 00:36:33,924 YEAH SHE THOUGHT THAT THEY HAD BEEN 1320 00:36:34,126 --> 00:36:36,393 SHE THOUGHT THAT THEY HAD BEEN HAVING AN AFFAIR 1321 00:36:36,595 --> 00:36:38,428 HAVING AN AFFAIR >> THAT WAS HER PERCEPTION, YES. 1322 00:36:38,630 --> 00:36:41,765 >> THAT WAS HER PERCEPTION, YES. AND IT TOOK A LOT OF CONVINCING 1323 00:36:41,967 --> 00:36:42,866 AND IT TOOK A LOT OF CONVINCING FOR ME TO TELL HER, "NO, I -- I 1324 00:36:43,068 --> 00:36:46,269 FOR ME TO TELL HER, "NO, I -- I TRULY DO NOT BELIEVE THEY'RE 1325 00:36:46,471 --> 00:36:47,003 TRULY DO NOT BELIEVE THEY'RE HAVIN' AN AFFAIR." 1326 00:36:47,205 --> 00:36:48,238 HAVIN' AN AFFAIR." >> WE ASKED MICHELLE 1327 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:49,139 >> WE ASKED MICHELLE WE JUST SAID, "HEY, ARE YOU 1328 00:36:49,341 --> 00:36:50,207 WE JUST SAID, "HEY, ARE YOU HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH MICHAEL? 1329 00:36:50,409 --> 00:36:51,241 HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH MICHAEL? AND SHE SAID, "ABSOLUTELY NOT. 1330 00:36:51,443 --> 00:36:52,275 AND SHE SAID, "ABSOLUTELY NOT. >> Reporter: BUT THE RIFT 1331 00:36:52,477 --> 00:36:53,877 >> Reporter: BUT THE RIFT BETWEEN THE TWO SISTERS WAS 1332 00:36:54,079 --> 00:36:55,445 BETWEEN THE TWO SISTERS WAS DEEP, AND IT BOTHERED THEIR 1333 00:36:55,647 --> 00:36:56,513 DEEP, AND IT BOTHERED THEIR MOTHER 1334 00:36:56,715 --> 00:36:58,114 MOTHER SHE URGED HER DAUGHTERS TO MAKE 1335 00:36:58,316 --> 00:36:59,182 SHE URGED HER DAUGHTERS TO MAKE PEACE. 1336 00:36:59,384 --> 00:37:00,217 PEACE. SO ON THE DAY OF HER KIDNEY 1337 00:37:00,419 --> 00:37:01,284 SO ON THE DAY OF HER KIDNEY SURGERY, RENEE EXTENDED AN OLIVE 1338 00:37:01,486 --> 00:37:04,888 SURGERY, RENEE EXTENDED AN OLIVE BRANCH TO MICHELLE 1339 00:37:05,090 --> 00:37:06,456 BRANCH TO MICHELLE >> THE DAY I DROVE RENEE TO THE 1340 00:37:06,658 --> 00:37:07,090 >> THE DAY I DROVE RENEE TO THE HOSPITAL, SHE ACTUALLY HAD WROTE 1341 00:37:07,292 --> 00:37:09,092 HOSPITAL, SHE ACTUALLY HAD WROTE THIS BEAUTIFUL, POIGNANT LETTER 1342 00:37:09,294 --> 00:37:10,160 THIS BEAUTIFUL, POIGNANT LETTER TO HER SISTER. 1343 00:37:10,362 --> 00:37:12,262 TO HER SISTER. IT WAS BASICALLY SAYING, YOU 1344 00:37:12,464 --> 00:37:13,330 IT WAS BASICALLY SAYING, YOU KNOW, "I WANNA BURY THE HATCHET. 1345 00:37:13,532 --> 00:37:14,397 KNOW, "I WANNA BURY THE HATCHET. YOU'RE MY SISTER 1346 00:37:14,599 --> 00:37:17,033 YOU'RE MY SISTER LET BYGONES BE BYGONES 1347 00:37:17,235 --> 00:37:18,635 LET BYGONES BE BYGONES I REALLY WANT A RELATIONSHIP 1348 00:37:18,837 --> 00:37:19,669 I REALLY WANT A RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU." 1349 00:37:19,871 --> 00:37:21,271 WITH YOU." >> Reporter: LAURA REMEMBERS THE 1350 00:37:21,473 --> 00:37:22,872 >> Reporter: LAURA REMEMBERS THE FIRST QUESTION RENEE ASKED HER 1351 00:37:23,074 --> 00:37:25,008 FIRST QUESTION RENEE ASKED HER IN THE RECOVERY ROOM 1352 00:37:25,210 --> 00:37:26,576 IN THE RECOVERY ROOM >> I WAS THERE WHEN SHE WOKE UP 1353 00:37:26,778 --> 00:37:27,644 >> I WAS THERE WHEN SHE WOKE UP FROM HER KIDNEY SURGERY, AND THE 1354 00:37:27,846 --> 00:37:29,212 FROM HER KIDNEY SURGERY, AND THE FIRST THING SHE SAID TO ME WAS, 1355 00:37:29,414 --> 00:37:30,814 FIRST THING SHE SAID TO ME WAS, "DID MICHELLE COME?" 1356 00:37:31,016 --> 00:37:32,382 "DID MICHELLE COME?" >> Reporter: OH. 1357 00:37:32,584 --> 00:37:33,450 >> Reporter: OH. >> AND I SAID, "NO." 1358 00:37:33,652 --> 00:37:34,484 >> AND I SAID, "NO." AND JUST TEARS RAN DOWN HER 1359 00:37:34,686 --> 00:37:36,086 AND JUST TEARS RAN DOWN HER CHEEKS 1360 00:37:36,288 --> 00:37:38,922 CHEEKS >> Reporter: THAT'S 1361 00:37:39,124 --> 00:37:44,060 >> Reporter: THAT'S HEARTBREAKING. 1362 00:37:44,262 --> 00:37:44,594 HEARTBREAKING. >> HEARTBREAKING FOR SURE. 1363 00:37:44,796 --> 00:37:46,930 >> HEARTBREAKING FOR SURE. BUT TO HOMICIDE INVESTIGATORS, 1364 00:37:47,132 --> 00:37:47,464 BUT TO HOMICIDE INVESTIGATORS, IT WAS SOMETHING ELSE. 1365 00:37:47,666 --> 00:37:48,531 IT WAS SOMETHING ELSE. >> AND I ALSO ASKED MICHELLE, 1366 00:37:48,733 --> 00:37:50,133 >> AND I ALSO ASKED MICHELLE, "DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO DO 1367 00:37:50,335 --> 00:37:51,167 "DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH RENEE'S DEATH 1368 00:37:51,369 --> 00:37:52,202 WITH RENEE'S DEATH DID YOU DO IT? 1369 00:37:52,404 --> 00:37:53,536 DID YOU DO IT? AGAIN, SHE DENIED HAVING ANY 1370 00:37:53,738 --> 00:37:54,304 AGAIN, SHE DENIED HAVING ANY PART OF THAT 1371 00:37:54,506 --> 00:37:55,372 PART OF THAT SO WE JUST CAME OUT AND BLUNTLY 1372 00:37:55,574 --> 00:37:56,439 SO WE JUST CAME OUT AND BLUNTLY ASKED HER. 1373 00:37:56,641 --> 00:37:58,008 ASKED HER. >> Reporter: YOU INTERVIEWED 1374 00:37:58,210 --> 00:37:59,075 >> Reporter: YOU INTERVIEWED MICHELLE MULTIPLE TIMES? 1375 00:37:59,277 --> 00:38:00,143 MICHELLE MULTIPLE TIMES? >> YES 1376 00:38:00,345 --> 00:38:01,745 >> YES >> Reporter: OF COURSE, THEY 1377 00:38:01,947 --> 00:38:05,982 >> Reporter: OF COURSE, THEY WOULD HAVE TO PUT THOSE SAME 1378 00:38:06,184 --> 00:38:07,017 WOULD HAVE TO PUT THOSE SAME QUESTIONS TO MICHAEL PAGEL 1379 00:38:07,219 --> 00:38:08,618 QUESTIONS TO MICHAEL PAGEL >>> COMING UP -- 1380 00:38:08,820 --> 00:38:09,653 >>> COMING UP -- MICHAEL AND RENEE'S DIVORCE. 1381 00:38:09,855 --> 00:38:11,254 MICHAEL AND RENEE'S DIVORCE. BITTER DOESN'T BEGIN TO DESCRIBE 1382 00:38:11,456 --> 00:38:13,356 BITTER DOESN'T BEGIN TO DESCRIBE IT 1383 00:38:13,558 --> 00:38:15,458 IT >> HE HAD BEEN TOLD THAT HE WAS 1384 00:38:15,660 --> 00:38:17,060 >> HE HAD BEEN TOLD THAT HE WAS GONNA HAVE TO PAY RENEE ALIMONY 1385 00:38:17,262 --> 00:38:19,162 GONNA HAVE TO PAY RENEE ALIMONY AND CHILD SUPPORT, WORK HARDER 1386 00:38:19,364 --> 00:38:38,481 AND CHILD SUPPORT, WORK HARDER >> HE WAS INCENSED 1387 00:38:38,683 --> 00:38:39,115 >> HE WAS INCENSED >>> Reporter: AS CHILDREN, SARAH 1388 00:38:39,317 --> 00:38:39,749 >>> Reporter: AS CHILDREN, SARAH AND HER SIBLINGS HAD A DIFFICULT 1389 00:38:39,951 --> 00:38:42,252 AND HER SIBLINGS HAD A DIFFICULT TIME PROCESSING THE MAGNITUDE OF 1390 00:38:42,454 --> 00:38:44,854 TIME PROCESSING THE MAGNITUDE OF THEIR LOSS 1391 00:38:45,056 --> 00:38:45,889 THEIR LOSS >> HOW DO YOU LIVE WITHOUT HER 1392 00:38:46,091 --> 00:38:47,490 >> HOW DO YOU LIVE WITHOUT HER AND SO THAT WAS JUST KIND OF 1393 00:38:47,692 --> 00:38:48,091 AND SO THAT WAS JUST KIND OF SOMETHING THAT, I THINK, I WAS 1394 00:38:48,293 --> 00:38:50,126 SOMETHING THAT, I THINK, I WAS SO YOUNG I DIDN'T REALLY 1395 00:38:50,328 --> 00:38:51,695 SO YOUNG I DIDN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND 1396 00:38:51,897 --> 00:38:54,798 UNDERSTAND AND I DIDN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND 1397 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,201 AND I DIDN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND THE -- THE DEPTH OF IT 1398 00:38:58,403 --> 00:38:58,768 THE -- THE DEPTH OF IT BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT WAS 1399 00:38:58,970 --> 00:39:00,337 BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT WAS SOMETHING THAT I -- I HAD A LOT 1400 00:39:00,539 --> 00:39:01,404 SOMETHING THAT I -- I HAD A LOT OF FAMILY THERE TOO. 1401 00:39:01,606 --> 00:39:02,672 OF FAMILY THERE TOO. >> Reporter: DO YOU REMEMBER 1402 00:39:02,874 --> 00:39:03,506 >> Reporter: DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT YOU MISSED ABOUT HER THE 1403 00:39:03,708 --> 00:39:05,075 WHAT YOU MISSED ABOUT HER THE MOST WHEN SHE WAS GONE 1404 00:39:05,277 --> 00:39:06,142 MOST WHEN SHE WAS GONE >> I MEAN, EVERYTHING REALLY 1405 00:39:06,344 --> 00:39:07,344 >> I MEAN, EVERYTHING REALLY I MEAN, YOUR PARENTS ARE YOUR 1406 00:39:07,546 --> 00:39:08,244 I MEAN, YOUR PARENTS ARE YOUR WORLD. 1407 00:39:08,446 --> 00:39:09,312 WORLD. SO LOSING ONE WAS -- I MEAN, 1408 00:39:09,514 --> 00:39:10,413 SO LOSING ONE WAS -- I MEAN, YEAH 1409 00:39:10,615 --> 00:39:15,552 YEAH IT WAS -- IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT, 1410 00:39:15,754 --> 00:39:16,186 IT WAS -- IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT, BUT I GUESS JUST HER BEING THERE 1411 00:39:16,388 --> 00:39:17,420 BUT I GUESS JUST HER BEING THERE WAS -- WAS WHAT I MISSED THE 1412 00:39:17,622 --> 00:39:18,488 WAS -- WAS WHAT I MISSED THE MOST 1413 00:39:18,690 --> 00:39:19,122 MOST >> Reporter: JUST TUCKING YOU IN 1414 00:39:19,324 --> 00:39:20,590 >> Reporter: JUST TUCKING YOU IN OR MAKING YOUR BREAKFAST 1415 00:39:20,792 --> 00:39:21,858 OR MAKING YOUR BREAKFAST LIKE, THE LITTLE THINGS? 1416 00:39:22,060 --> 00:39:22,726 LIKE, THE LITTLE THINGS? >> YEAH. 1417 00:39:22,928 --> 00:39:24,828 >> YEAH. >> Reporter: JUST AS SARAH HAD 1418 00:39:25,030 --> 00:39:26,429 >> Reporter: JUST AS SARAH HAD BEEN IN THE DARK ABOUT HER 1419 00:39:26,631 --> 00:39:29,032 BEEN IN THE DARK ABOUT HER PARENTS' DIVORCE, SHE HAD NO 1420 00:39:29,234 --> 00:39:31,134 PARENTS' DIVORCE, SHE HAD NO IDEA ABOUT THE RUMORS OF AN 1421 00:39:31,336 --> 00:39:32,502 IDEA ABOUT THE RUMORS OF AN AFFAIR BETWEEN HER DAD AND HER 1422 00:39:32,704 --> 00:39:33,269 AFFAIR BETWEEN HER DAD AND HER AUNT MICHELLE. 1423 00:39:33,471 --> 00:39:34,337 AUNT MICHELLE. BUT INVESTIGATORS TRYING TO 1424 00:39:34,339 --> 00:39:35,372 BUT INVESTIGATORS TRYING TO SOLVE A MURDER WERE VERY 1425 00:39:35,574 --> 00:39:36,406 SOLVE A MURDER WERE VERY INTERESTED IN THOSE DETAILS. 1426 00:39:36,608 --> 00:39:38,007 INTERESTED IN THOSE DETAILS. AFTER CHECKING IT OUT, THEY 1427 00:39:38,209 --> 00:39:39,042 AFTER CHECKING IT OUT, THEY QUICKLY CONCLUDED THE RUMORS 1428 00:39:39,244 --> 00:39:40,110 QUICKLY CONCLUDED THE RUMORS WERE BASELESS. 1429 00:39:40,312 --> 00:39:41,678 WERE BASELESS. THERE WAS NO ROMANTIC 1430 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:42,746 THERE WAS NO ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP 1431 00:39:42,948 --> 00:39:44,848 RELATIONSHIP >> THERE WAS NOTHING IN THE 1432 00:39:45,050 --> 00:39:45,915 >> THERE WAS NOTHING IN THE COMMUNICATIONS THAT WE HAD TO 1433 00:39:46,117 --> 00:39:47,717 COMMUNICATIONS THAT WE HAD TO INDICATE THAT IT WAS A ROMANTIC 1434 00:39:47,919 --> 00:39:49,052 INDICATE THAT IT WAS A ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP, MORE OF A FRIEND 1435 00:39:49,254 --> 00:39:50,653 RELATIONSHIP, MORE OF A FRIEND RELATIONSHIP 1436 00:39:50,855 --> 00:39:52,255 RELATIONSHIP IN THE END, IT -- IT LOOKED LIKE 1437 00:39:52,457 --> 00:39:53,823 IN THE END, IT -- IT LOOKED LIKE WHAT MICHELLE REALLY WANTED WAS 1438 00:39:54,025 --> 00:39:55,925 WHAT MICHELLE REALLY WANTED WAS TO STAY CLOSE TO HIM, SO SHE 1439 00:39:56,127 --> 00:39:57,527 TO STAY CLOSE TO HIM, SO SHE COULD BE CLOSE TO THE CHILDREN 1440 00:39:57,729 --> 00:39:58,595 COULD BE CLOSE TO THE CHILDREN >> Reporter: STILL, THEY HAD 1441 00:39:58,797 --> 00:40:00,196 >> Reporter: STILL, THEY HAD BEEN HEARING TROUBLING STORIES 1442 00:40:00,398 --> 00:40:01,398 BEEN HEARING TROUBLING STORIES ABOUT MICHAEL AND THE PENDING 1443 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:02,265 ABOUT MICHAEL AND THE PENDING DIVORCE. 1444 00:40:02,467 --> 00:40:03,867 DIVORCE. FRIENDS SAID IT STARTED WITH 1445 00:40:04,069 --> 00:40:08,037 FRIENDS SAID IT STARTED WITH RENEE BEING BLINDSIDED 1446 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:08,638 RENEE BEING BLINDSIDED >> SHE WAS SERVED WITH DIVORCE 1447 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:10,740 >> SHE WAS SERVED WITH DIVORCE PAPERS IN THE MIDDLE OF 1448 00:40:10,942 --> 00:40:11,775 PAPERS IN THE MIDDLE OF TEACHING, YEAH 1449 00:40:11,977 --> 00:40:12,842 TEACHING, YEAH >> Reporter: IN HER CLASSROOM? 1450 00:40:13,044 --> 00:40:14,411 >> Reporter: IN HER CLASSROOM? >> IN HER CLASSROOM. 1451 00:40:14,613 --> 00:40:16,012 >> IN HER CLASSROOM. >> SHE SAID, "YOU KNOW, HE HAD 1452 00:40:16,214 --> 00:40:17,080 >> SHE SAID, "YOU KNOW, HE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE IT SERVED 1453 00:40:17,282 --> 00:40:18,148 AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE IT SERVED TO ME AFTER SCHOOL OR AT A 1454 00:40:18,350 --> 00:40:20,216 TO ME AFTER SCHOOL OR AT A DIFFERENT TIME." 1455 00:40:20,418 --> 00:40:21,885 DIFFERENT TIME." BUT SHE SAID, "NO, HE DID IT 1456 00:40:22,087 --> 00:40:23,386 BUT SHE SAID, "NO, HE DID IT RIGHT WHEN I WAS TEACHING WITH 1457 00:40:23,588 --> 00:40:25,989 RIGHT WHEN I WAS TEACHING WITH MY CLASS 1458 00:40:26,191 --> 00:40:27,590 MY CLASS AND HE KNEW HOW IMPORTANT THEY 1459 00:40:27,792 --> 00:40:30,393 AND HE KNEW HOW IMPORTANT THEY WERE TO ME AND HOW HE COULD JUST 1460 00:40:30,395 --> 00:40:31,995 WERE TO ME AND HOW HE COULD JUST EMBARRASS ME." 1461 00:40:32,197 --> 00:40:33,029 EMBARRASS ME." >> Reporter: AND IT WENT 1462 00:40:33,231 --> 00:40:34,097 >> Reporter: AND IT WENT DOWNHILL FROM THERE. 1463 00:40:34,299 --> 00:40:35,165 DOWNHILL FROM THERE. CHRIS CRANDLE SAYS MICHAEL 1464 00:40:35,367 --> 00:40:36,199 CHRIS CRANDLE SAYS MICHAEL CHANGED AS THEY HAMMERED OUT THE 1465 00:40:36,401 --> 00:40:37,400 CHANGED AS THEY HAMMERED OUT THE DIVORCE. 1466 00:40:37,602 --> 00:40:38,835 DIVORCE. >> HE WOULD JUST PLAY MIND GAMES 1467 00:40:39,037 --> 00:40:40,403 >> HE WOULD JUST PLAY MIND GAMES WITH HER ALL THE TIME. 1468 00:40:40,405 --> 00:40:42,505 WITH HER ALL THE TIME. TELL HER THEY WERE MEETING AT 1469 00:40:42,707 --> 00:40:44,107 TELL HER THEY WERE MEETING AT McDONALD'S AND NOT SHOW UP 1470 00:40:44,309 --> 00:40:45,141 McDONALD'S AND NOT SHOW UP AND TELL HER THAT, "WELL, THAT'S 1471 00:40:45,343 --> 00:40:46,743 AND TELL HER THAT, "WELL, THAT'S YOUR FAULT 1472 00:40:46,945 --> 00:40:47,777 YOUR FAULT YOU DIDN'T HEAR WHAT WE WERE 1473 00:40:47,979 --> 00:40:48,945 YOU DIDN'T HEAR WHAT WE WERE GOING TO DO. 1474 00:40:49,147 --> 00:40:50,447 GOING TO DO. >> Reporter: FOR WHAT REASON 1475 00:40:50,649 --> 00:40:51,481 >> Reporter: FOR WHAT REASON >> I BELIEVE IT'S CALLED 1476 00:40:51,683 --> 00:40:52,549 >> I BELIEVE IT'S CALLED GASLIGHTING. 1477 00:40:52,751 --> 00:40:53,616 GASLIGHTING. HE WAS THE MASTER AT IT. 1478 00:40:53,818 --> 00:40:55,351 HE WAS THE MASTER AT IT. HE WOULD MAKE HER FEEL LIKE SHE 1479 00:40:55,553 --> 00:40:56,753 HE WOULD MAKE HER FEEL LIKE SHE WAS THE CRAZY ONE. 1480 00:40:56,955 --> 00:40:57,821 WAS THE CRAZY ONE. >> Reporter: FRIENDS ALL AGREED 1481 00:40:58,023 --> 00:40:59,422 >> Reporter: FRIENDS ALL AGREED MICHAEL WAS A GREAT DAD WHO 1482 00:40:59,624 --> 00:41:00,990 MICHAEL WAS A GREAT DAD WHO SPENT A LOT OF TIME WITH THE 1483 00:41:01,192 --> 00:41:02,559 SPENT A LOT OF TIME WITH THE KIDS WHILE RENEE WORKED. 1484 00:41:02,761 --> 00:41:05,962 KIDS WHILE RENEE WORKED. BUT NOW THEY SAW HIS PARENTING 1485 00:41:06,164 --> 00:41:07,964 BUT NOW THEY SAW HIS PARENTING IN A DIFFERENT LIGHT 1486 00:41:08,166 --> 00:41:11,534 IN A DIFFERENT LIGHT AN OPPORTUNITY TO CASH IN AND 1487 00:41:11,736 --> 00:41:14,704 AN OPPORTUNITY TO CASH IN AND KEEP THE BIG HOUSE HE'D 1488 00:41:14,906 --> 00:41:15,772 KEEP THE BIG HOUSE HE'D CONVINCED RENEE TO BUY 1489 00:41:15,974 --> 00:41:16,372 CONVINCED RENEE TO BUY >> I FEEL LIKE HE HAD DIVORCE 1490 00:41:16,574 --> 00:41:17,340 >> I FEEL LIKE HE HAD DIVORCE ALREADY IN WORKS BEFORE THAT 1491 00:41:17,542 --> 00:41:18,408 ALREADY IN WORKS BEFORE THAT THEY BOUGHT THAT HOUSE 1492 00:41:18,610 --> 00:41:19,042 THEY BOUGHT THAT HOUSE HE WAS HOPEFUL HE WOULD GET THE 1493 00:41:19,244 --> 00:41:20,109 HE WAS HOPEFUL HE WOULD GET THE HOUSE. 1494 00:41:20,311 --> 00:41:21,044 HOUSE. >> Reporter: FROM EVERYTHING 1495 00:41:21,246 --> 00:41:22,145 >> Reporter: FROM EVERYTHING I'VE HEARD, HE DIDN'T WANT TO 1496 00:41:22,347 --> 00:41:23,346 I'VE HEARD, HE DIDN'T WANT TO WORK 1497 00:41:23,548 --> 00:41:24,247 WORK HE WANTED TO RAISE THE KIDS, AND 1498 00:41:24,449 --> 00:41:25,315 HE WANTED TO RAISE THE KIDS, AND HE WANTED RENEE TO SUPPORT HIM 1499 00:41:25,517 --> 00:41:26,382 HE WANTED RENEE TO SUPPORT HIM >> RIGHT 1500 00:41:26,584 --> 00:41:27,450 >> RIGHT RIGHT, YES 1501 00:41:27,652 --> 00:41:29,052 RIGHT, YES HE SPECIFICALLY WENT BACK TO 1502 00:41:29,254 --> 00:41:31,554 HE SPECIFICALLY WENT BACK TO SCHOOL TO GET ANOTHER DEGREE SO 1503 00:41:31,756 --> 00:41:34,457 SCHOOL TO GET ANOTHER DEGREE SO THAT HE DIDN'T HAVE TO WORK. 1504 00:41:34,459 --> 00:41:35,258 THAT HE DIDN'T HAVE TO WORK. >> HE HAD HIMSELF WORKING 1505 00:41:35,460 --> 00:41:37,494 >> HE HAD HIMSELF WORKING PART-TIME AND HAD HER WORKING 1506 00:41:37,696 --> 00:41:40,129 PART-TIME AND HAD HER WORKING TWO TO THREE JOBS. 1507 00:41:40,331 --> 00:41:44,267 TWO TO THREE JOBS. AND SO HIS PLAN, I BELIEVE, WITH 1508 00:41:44,469 --> 00:41:45,869 AND SO HIS PLAN, I BELIEVE, WITH EVERY FIBER IN MY BEING, HIS 1509 00:41:46,071 --> 00:41:47,203 EVERY FIBER IN MY BEING, HIS PLAN WAS TO GO TO COURT AND TO 1510 00:41:47,405 --> 00:41:49,873 PLAN WAS TO GO TO COURT AND TO HAVE THE HOUSE, THE KIDS, AND 1511 00:41:50,075 --> 00:41:50,940 HAVE THE HOUSE, THE KIDS, AND $2,000 A MONTH 1512 00:41:51,142 --> 00:41:53,009 $2,000 A MONTH HE HAD WORKED TO SET HIMSELF UP 1513 00:41:53,211 --> 00:41:53,576 HE HAD WORKED TO SET HIMSELF UP THAT WAY 1514 00:41:53,778 --> 00:41:54,177 THAT WAY >> Reporter: HE WANTED ALIMONY 1515 00:41:54,379 --> 00:41:55,144 >> Reporter: HE WANTED ALIMONY >> OH, HE WANTED IT. 1516 00:41:55,346 --> 00:41:56,212 >> OH, HE WANTED IT. >> Reporter: AND -- AND CHILD 1517 00:41:56,414 --> 00:41:57,280 >> Reporter: AND -- AND CHILD SUPPORT. 1518 00:41:57,482 --> 00:41:58,314 SUPPORT. >> THAT WAS -- HE WANTED IT ALL. 1519 00:41:58,516 --> 00:42:00,049 >> THAT WAS -- HE WANTED IT ALL. AND HE BELIEVED THAT HE HAD 1520 00:42:00,251 --> 00:42:02,051 AND HE BELIEVED THAT HE HAD HAD -- HAD WORKED HIMSELF INTO 1521 00:42:02,253 --> 00:42:03,586 HAD -- HAD WORKED HIMSELF INTO THAT POSITION. 1522 00:42:03,788 --> 00:42:05,188 THAT POSITION. >> Reporter: WORKED HIMSELF INTO 1523 00:42:05,390 --> 00:42:06,756 >> Reporter: WORKED HIMSELF INTO THAT POSITION, RENEE BELIEVED, 1524 00:42:06,958 --> 00:42:09,392 THAT POSITION, RENEE BELIEVED, BY NOT WORKING 1525 00:42:09,594 --> 00:42:10,026 BY NOT WORKING >> RENEE EVEN SAID, THEY BASE IT 1526 00:42:10,228 --> 00:42:15,465 ON YOUR LAST THREE YEARS WELL, YOU LOOK BACK, HE'S GONE 1527 00:42:15,667 --> 00:42:18,201 WELL, YOU LOOK BACK, HE'S GONE PART-TIME, OR HASN'T EVEN 1528 00:42:18,403 --> 00:42:19,168 PART-TIME, OR HASN'T EVEN WORKED HIS LAST THREE YEARS. 1529 00:42:19,370 --> 00:42:20,236 WORKED HIS LAST THREE YEARS. AND IT WAS JUST ALL PART OF HIS 1530 00:42:20,438 --> 00:42:21,804 AND IT WAS JUST ALL PART OF HIS PLAN 1531 00:42:22,006 --> 00:42:22,839 PLAN >> Reporter: IN THE WEEKS 1532 00:42:23,041 --> 00:42:24,941 >> Reporter: IN THE WEEKS LEADING UP TO RENEE'S MURDER, 1533 00:42:25,143 --> 00:42:26,009 LEADING UP TO RENEE'S MURDER, THINGS WEREN'T GOING WELL FOR 1534 00:42:26,211 --> 00:42:26,543 THINGS WEREN'T GOING WELL FOR MICHAEL IN COURT 1535 00:42:26,745 --> 00:42:27,877 MICHAEL IN COURT THIS PLAN DIDN'T GO AS PLANNED 1536 00:42:28,079 --> 00:42:31,180 THIS PLAN DIDN'T GO AS PLANNED ONCE IT GOT -- 1537 00:42:31,382 --> 00:42:31,681 ONCE IT GOT -- >> NO, IT SURE DID NOT - 1538 00:42:31,883 --> 00:42:33,750 >> NO, IT SURE DID NOT - >> Reporter: -- INTO THE DIVORCE 1539 00:42:33,952 --> 00:42:34,517 >> Reporter: -- INTO THE DIVORCE COURTS 1540 00:42:34,519 --> 00:42:35,552 COURTS >> NO. 1541 00:42:35,754 --> 00:42:36,719 >> NO. AND THE JUDGE TOLD MIKE UNDER NO 1542 00:42:36,921 --> 00:42:37,687 AND THE JUDGE TOLD MIKE UNDER NO UNCERTAIN TERMS, "YOU'RE -- 1543 00:42:37,889 --> 00:42:38,288 UNCERTAIN TERMS, "YOU'RE -- YOU'RE GONNA GO GET A JOB AND 1544 00:42:38,490 --> 00:42:39,289 YOU'RE GONNA GO GET A JOB AND YOU'RE GONNA WORK FULL TIME. 1545 00:42:39,491 --> 00:42:40,323 YOU'RE GONNA WORK FULL TIME. AND YOU ARE GONNA PAY CHILD 1546 00:42:40,525 --> 00:42:41,424 AND YOU ARE GONNA PAY CHILD SUPPORT. 1547 00:42:41,626 --> 00:42:42,458 SUPPORT. AND RENEE IS GOING TO STAY IN 1548 00:42:42,660 --> 00:42:43,793 AND RENEE IS GOING TO STAY IN THE HOME 1549 00:42:43,995 --> 00:42:45,328 THE HOME AND HE WAS INCENSED. 1550 00:42:45,530 --> 00:42:48,698 AND HE WAS INCENSED. I MEAN, HE WAS LIVID 1551 00:42:48,900 --> 00:42:50,800 I MEAN, HE WAS LIVID THAT DAY RENEE CAME HOME FROM 1552 00:42:51,002 --> 00:42:51,401 THAT DAY RENEE CAME HOME FROM HER COURT HEARING, SHE TOLD ME 1553 00:42:51,603 --> 00:42:54,304 HER COURT HEARING, SHE TOLD ME SHE HAD NEVER SEEN HIM SO ANGRY 1554 00:42:54,506 --> 00:42:58,408 SHE HAD NEVER SEEN HIM SO ANGRY IN HER WHOLE LIFE. 1555 00:42:58,610 --> 00:43:00,944 IN HER WHOLE LIFE. >> Reporter: PROSECUTORS 1556 00:43:01,146 --> 00:43:01,544 >> Reporter: PROSECUTORS DAN HELMER AND KELLEE KONCKI, 1557 00:43:01,746 --> 00:43:04,380 DAN HELMER AND KELLEE KONCKI, INVESTIGATING THE CASE, BELIEVED 1558 00:43:04,582 --> 00:43:05,415 INVESTIGATING THE CASE, BELIEVED THIS WAS A TURNING POINT 1559 00:43:05,617 --> 00:43:09,719 THIS WAS A TURNING POINT >> HE HAD BEEN TOLD THAT HE WAS 1560 00:43:09,921 --> 00:43:11,888 >> HE HAD BEEN TOLD THAT HE WAS GONNA HAVE TO PAY RENEE ALIMONY 1561 00:43:12,090 --> 00:43:13,723 GONNA HAVE TO PAY RENEE ALIMONY AND CHILD SUPPORT, WORK HARDER, 1562 00:43:13,925 --> 00:43:16,359 AND CHILD SUPPORT, WORK HARDER, AND LIKELY WASN'T GONNA GET FULL 1563 00:43:16,561 --> 00:43:20,330 AND LIKELY WASN'T GONNA GET FULL CUSTODY OF THE KIDS LIKE HE -- 1564 00:43:20,532 --> 00:43:22,432 CUSTODY OF THE KIDS LIKE HE -- >> THE HOUSE 1565 00:43:22,634 --> 00:43:23,466 >> THE HOUSE >> -- LIKE HE THOUGHT OF 1566 00:43:23,668 --> 00:43:24,567 >> -- LIKE HE THOUGHT OF HE FILED FOR DIVORCE THINKING, 1567 00:43:24,569 --> 00:43:26,302 HE FILED FOR DIVORCE THINKING, "MIKE'S SUCH A GREAT GUY 1568 00:43:26,504 --> 00:43:26,869 "MIKE'S SUCH A GREAT GUY HE'S GONNA GET X, Y, AND Z." 1569 00:43:27,071 --> 00:43:27,470 HE'S GONNA GET X, Y, AND Z." AND NONE OF THAT TURNED OUT TO 1570 00:43:27,672 --> 00:43:28,237 AND NONE OF THAT TURNED OUT TO BE TRUE. 1571 00:43:28,439 --> 00:43:29,305 BE TRUE. AND IT INFURIATED HIM. 1572 00:43:29,507 --> 00:43:30,373 AND IT INFURIATED HIM. >> Reporter: JUST WEEKS AFTER 1573 00:43:30,575 --> 00:43:31,441 >> Reporter: JUST WEEKS AFTER THAT HEARING, RENEE WAS IN THE 1574 00:43:31,643 --> 00:43:32,475 THAT HEARING, RENEE WAS IN THE HOSPITAL FOR THE KIDNEY SURGERY. 1575 00:43:32,677 --> 00:43:33,643 HOSPITAL FOR THE KIDNEY SURGERY. >> I WAS RIGHT THERE WHEN SHE 1576 00:43:33,845 --> 00:43:35,144 >> I WAS RIGHT THERE WHEN SHE WOKE UP. 1577 00:43:35,346 --> 00:43:35,745 WOKE UP. AND LIKE I TOLD YA, SHE ASKED 1578 00:43:35,947 --> 00:43:36,713 AND LIKE I TOLD YA, SHE ASKED ABOUT MICHAEL. 1579 00:43:36,915 --> 00:43:37,780 ABOUT MICHAEL. AND THE NEXT THING SHE SAID, "IS 1580 00:43:37,982 --> 00:43:38,815 AND THE NEXT THING SHE SAID, "IS THERE A SIGN ON MY DOOR THAT 1581 00:43:39,017 --> 00:43:39,882 THERE A SIGN ON MY DOOR THAT SAYS YOU CANNOT ENTER WITHOUT 1582 00:43:40,084 --> 00:43:40,950 SAYS YOU CANNOT ENTER WITHOUT PERMISSION?" 1583 00:43:41,152 --> 00:43:41,718 PERMISSION?" >> Reporter: RENEE DIDN'T WANT 1584 00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:43,052 >> Reporter: RENEE DIDN'T WANT MICHAEL ANYWHERE NEAR HER. 1585 00:43:43,254 --> 00:43:44,087 MICHAEL ANYWHERE NEAR HER. >> AND I SAID, "NO." 1586 00:43:44,289 --> 00:43:45,154 >> AND I SAID, "NO." SHE SAID, "DO IT, BECAUSE HE'S 1587 00:43:45,356 --> 00:43:46,255 SHE SAID, "DO IT, BECAUSE HE'S GONNA TRY TO KILL ME 1588 00:43:46,457 --> 00:43:47,290 GONNA TRY TO KILL ME HE'S GONNA TRY TO PUT INSULIN IN 1589 00:43:47,492 --> 00:43:48,324 HE'S GONNA TRY TO PUT INSULIN IN MY IV OR SOMETHING." 1590 00:43:48,526 --> 00:43:49,392 MY IV OR SOMETHING." >> Reporter: AS SOON AS SHE WAS 1591 00:43:49,594 --> 00:43:50,994 >> Reporter: AS SOON AS SHE WAS DISCHARGED, RENEE WENT TO SEE 1592 00:43:51,196 --> 00:43:52,195 DISCHARGED, RENEE WENT TO SEE HER KIDS WHO WERE STAYING WITH 1593 00:43:52,397 --> 00:43:53,630 HER KIDS WHO WERE STAYING WITH THEIR FATHER 1594 00:43:53,832 --> 00:44:02,071 THEIR FATHER IT DIDN'T GO WELL. 1595 00:44:02,273 --> 00:44:03,640 IT DIDN'T GO WELL. >> SHE CALLED ME THAT NIGHT. 1596 00:44:03,842 --> 00:44:07,043 >> SHE CALLED ME THAT NIGHT. SHE WAS JUST FREAKED OUT 1597 00:44:07,245 --> 00:44:07,477 SHE WAS JUST FREAKED OUT SHE WAS SO AGITATED. 1598 00:44:07,679 --> 00:44:08,911 SHE WAS SO AGITATED. >> Reporter: RENEE SAID MICHAEL 1599 00:44:09,113 --> 00:44:09,979 >> Reporter: RENEE SAID MICHAEL GREETED HER BY TOSSING THEIR 1600 00:44:10,181 --> 00:44:11,581 GREETED HER BY TOSSING THEIR YOUNGEST DAUGHTER AT HER 1601 00:44:11,783 --> 00:44:12,615 YOUNGEST DAUGHTER AT HER >> AND HE SAID, "OH, LOOK, 1602 00:44:12,617 --> 00:44:14,217 >> AND HE SAID, "OH, LOOK, HANNAH 1603 00:44:14,419 --> 00:44:15,251 HANNAH MOMMY'S SO GLAD TO SEE YOU." 1604 00:44:15,453 --> 00:44:16,319 MOMMY'S SO GLAD TO SEE YOU." AND SHE HELD HER HAND OUT AND 1605 00:44:16,521 --> 00:44:17,353 AND SHE HELD HER HAND OUT AND SAID, "MIKE, STOP," AND HE THREW 1606 00:44:17,555 --> 00:44:18,421 SAID, "MIKE, STOP," AND HE THREW HANNAH AT HER. 1607 00:44:18,623 --> 00:44:20,123 HANNAH AT HER. >> Reporter: RENEE SAID SHE 1608 00:44:20,325 --> 00:44:21,057 >> Reporter: RENEE SAID SHE DROPPED TO HER KNEES TO CATCH 1609 00:44:21,259 --> 00:44:22,125 DROPPED TO HER KNEES TO CATCH HER DAUGHTER 1610 00:44:22,327 --> 00:44:23,693 HER DAUGHTER >> SHE WAS CRYING, AND SHE SAID, 1611 00:44:23,895 --> 00:44:24,761 >> SHE WAS CRYING, AND SHE SAID, "HE KNEW THAT I HAD JUST HAD 1612 00:44:24,963 --> 00:44:25,828 "HE KNEW THAT I HAD JUST HAD SURGERY AND THAT I COULDN'T 1613 00:44:26,030 --> 00:44:27,397 SURGERY AND THAT I COULDN'T CATCH HER. 1614 00:44:27,599 --> 00:44:30,299 CATCH HER. SHE SAID, "HE JUST WANTS TO HURT 1615 00:44:30,501 --> 00:44:31,100 SHE SAID, "HE JUST WANTS TO HURT ME." 1616 00:44:31,302 --> 00:44:32,669 ME." >> Reporter: DETECTIVES WANTED 1617 00:44:32,871 --> 00:44:34,804 >> Reporter: DETECTIVES WANTED TO TALK TO MICHAEL PAGEL AGAIN, 1618 00:44:35,006 --> 00:44:36,372 TO TALK TO MICHAEL PAGEL AGAIN, BUT IF HE WOULDN'T ANSWER THEIR 1619 00:44:36,574 --> 00:44:37,440 BUT IF HE WOULDN'T ANSWER THEIR QUESTIONS, THEY WERE ABOUT TO 1620 00:44:37,642 --> 00:44:39,742 QUESTIONS, THEY WERE ABOUT TO FIND ANOTHER WAY TO KNOW EXACTLY 1621 00:44:39,944 --> 00:44:41,678 FIND ANOTHER WAY TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HE'D BEEN THINKING ABOUT 1622 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,313 WHAT HE'D BEEN THINKING ABOUT RENEE. 1623 00:44:44,515 --> 00:44:45,915 RENEE. >>> COMING UP -- 1624 00:44:46,117 --> 00:44:47,483 >>> COMING UP -- HIDDEN DEEP INSIDE THE HOUSE, 1625 00:44:47,685 --> 00:44:52,622 HIDDEN DEEP INSIDE THE HOUSE, MICHAEL PAGEL'S SECRET JOURNALS. 1626 00:44:52,824 --> 00:44:54,724 MICHAEL PAGEL'S SECRET JOURNALS. WHAT WOULD THEY REVEAL 1627 00:44:54,926 --> 00:44:55,425 WHAT WOULD THEY REVEAL >> IN THIS JOURNALING, YOU DO 1628 00:44:55,627 --> 00:44:57,527 >> IN THIS JOURNALING, YOU DO MENTION YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT 1629 00:44:57,729 --> 00:44:58,061 MENTION YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT RENEE, CORRECT 1630 00:44:58,263 --> 00:45:16,713 RENEE, CORRECT >> 1631 00:45:16,915 --> 00:45:17,246 >> >>> Reporter: THE WOMEN IN 1632 00:45:17,448 --> 00:45:18,881 >>> Reporter: THE WOMEN IN RENEE'S CIRCLE BELIEVED HER 1633 00:45:19,083 --> 00:45:19,949 RENEE'S CIRCLE BELIEVED HER SOON-TO-BE EX, MICHAEL, WAS 1634 00:45:20,151 --> 00:45:21,784 SOON-TO-BE EX, MICHAEL, WAS CAPABLE OF KILLING HER 1635 00:45:21,986 --> 00:45:23,586 CAPABLE OF KILLING HER AND APPARENTLY RENEE HAD THOUGHT 1636 00:45:23,788 --> 00:45:26,255 AND APPARENTLY RENEE HAD THOUGHT THE SAME THING 1637 00:45:26,457 --> 00:45:28,858 THE SAME THING >> SHE WENT UP TO MY MOM AND SHE 1638 00:45:29,060 --> 00:45:32,061 >> SHE WENT UP TO MY MOM AND SHE SAID, "MRS. STOUFFY, IF I END UP 1639 00:45:32,263 --> 00:45:33,129 SAID, "MRS. STOUFFY, IF I END UP DEAD, YOU'LL KNOW MIKE DID IT. 1640 00:45:33,331 --> 00:45:34,697 DEAD, YOU'LL KNOW MIKE DID IT. >> Reporter: STORIES LIKE THIS 1641 00:45:34,699 --> 00:45:36,799 >> Reporter: STORIES LIKE THIS SHOT MICHAEL PAGEL TO THE TOP OF 1642 00:45:37,001 --> 00:45:42,205 SHOT MICHAEL PAGEL TO THE TOP OF THE POTENTIAL SUSPECT LIST 1643 00:45:42,407 --> 00:45:43,773 THE POTENTIAL SUSPECT LIST >> WE WEREN'T COMPLETELY FOCUSED 1644 00:45:43,975 --> 00:45:44,340 >> WE WEREN'T COMPLETELY FOCUSED ON MICHAEL AT FIRST, BUT HE 1645 00:45:44,542 --> 00:45:47,143 ON MICHAEL AT FIRST, BUT HE DEFINITELY WAS IN OUR 1646 00:45:47,345 --> 00:45:48,177 DEFINITELY WAS IN OUR CROSSHAIRS 1647 00:45:48,379 --> 00:45:49,512 CROSSHAIRS >> Reporter: IN FACT, DETECTIVE 1648 00:45:49,714 --> 00:45:50,313 >> Reporter: IN FACT, DETECTIVE JOHNSON HAD BEEN SUSPICIOUS OF 1649 00:45:50,515 --> 00:45:51,347 JOHNSON HAD BEEN SUSPICIOUS OF MICHAEL FROM DAY ONE, WHEN HE 1650 00:45:51,549 --> 00:45:52,381 MICHAEL FROM DAY ONE, WHEN HE AND HIS PARTNER WENT OVER TO 1651 00:45:52,583 --> 00:45:54,083 AND HIS PARTNER WENT OVER TO TELL HIM RENEE WAS DEAD. 1652 00:45:54,285 --> 00:45:55,017 TELL HIM RENEE WAS DEAD. BEFORE THEY COULD SAY MUCH OF 1653 00:45:55,219 --> 00:45:56,619 BEFORE THEY COULD SAY MUCH OF ANYTHING, HE'D HANDED THEM A 1654 00:45:56,821 --> 00:45:59,922 ANYTHING, HE'D HANDED THEM A CARD FOR HIS DIVORCE ATTORNEY. 1655 00:46:00,124 --> 00:46:00,456 CARD FOR HIS DIVORCE ATTORNEY. >> WE START TALKIN' TO HIM 1656 00:46:00,658 --> 00:46:01,357 >> WE START TALKIN' TO HIM ABOUT -- WE WOULD LIKE TO TALK 1657 00:46:01,559 --> 00:46:02,925 ABOUT -- WE WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO HIM ABOUT RENEE AND SOMETHING 1658 00:46:03,127 --> 00:46:06,362 TO HIM ABOUT RENEE AND SOMETHING HAD HAPPENED TO HER. 1659 00:46:06,564 --> 00:46:06,996 HAD HAPPENED TO HER. AND HE'S BASICALLY SAYING, YEAH, 1660 00:46:07,198 --> 00:46:09,999 AND HE'S BASICALLY SAYING, YEAH, MY LAWYER STATED THAT I 1661 00:46:10,201 --> 00:46:10,566 MY LAWYER STATED THAT I SHOULDN'T TALK TO THE POLICE 1662 00:46:10,768 --> 00:46:11,634 SHOULDN'T TALK TO THE POLICE >> Reporter: MICHAEL EVENTUALLY 1663 00:46:11,836 --> 00:46:12,401 >> Reporter: MICHAEL EVENTUALLY HIRED A CRIMINAL DEFENSE 1664 00:46:12,603 --> 00:46:13,736 HIRED A CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY TO COMMUNICATE WITH 1665 00:46:13,938 --> 00:46:16,405 ATTORNEY TO COMMUNICATE WITH DETECTIVES 1666 00:46:16,607 --> 00:46:18,741 DETECTIVES POLICE GOT A SEARCH WARRANT FOR 1667 00:46:18,743 --> 00:46:19,375 POLICE GOT A SEARCH WARRANT FOR HIS HOUSE, BUT THEY DIDN'T FIND 1668 00:46:19,577 --> 00:46:21,077 HIS HOUSE, BUT THEY DIDN'T FIND ANYTHING LINKING HIM TO THE 1669 00:46:21,279 --> 00:46:22,078 ANYTHING LINKING HIM TO THE MURDER 1670 00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:23,146 MURDER HOWEVER, THEY FOUND SOMETHING 1671 00:46:23,348 --> 00:46:26,482 HOWEVER, THEY FOUND SOMETHING ELSE 1672 00:46:26,684 --> 00:46:27,083 ELSE DURING THE SEARCH, A DETECTIVE 1673 00:46:27,285 --> 00:46:29,118 DURING THE SEARCH, A DETECTIVE TAPPED ON A BEAM 1674 00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:30,486 TAPPED ON A BEAM IT SOUNDED HOLLOW. 1675 00:46:30,688 --> 00:46:31,220 IT SOUNDED HOLLOW. IT WAS 1676 00:46:31,422 --> 00:46:33,222 IT WAS AND HIDDEN INSIDE? 1677 00:46:33,424 --> 00:46:33,790 AND HIDDEN INSIDE? A NUMBER OF HARD DRIVES WITH 1678 00:46:33,992 --> 00:46:37,660 A NUMBER OF HARD DRIVES WITH SCANNED PAGES OF MICHAEL'S 1679 00:46:37,862 --> 00:46:40,997 SCANNED PAGES OF MICHAEL'S WRITINGS 1680 00:46:41,199 --> 00:46:41,597 WRITINGS >> HE HAD A LOT OF DOCUMENTING 1681 00:46:41,799 --> 00:46:44,233 >> HE HAD A LOT OF DOCUMENTING JOURNAL-TYPE THINGS WITH HIS 1682 00:46:44,435 --> 00:46:44,767 JOURNAL-TYPE THINGS WITH HIS FEELINGS ABOUT RENEE 1683 00:46:44,769 --> 00:46:46,335 FEELINGS ABOUT RENEE WE STARTED GOING THROUGH ALL 1684 00:46:46,537 --> 00:46:47,503 WE STARTED GOING THROUGH ALL THESE JOURNALS 1685 00:46:47,705 --> 00:46:48,104 THESE JOURNALS >> Reporter: THE JOURNALS ARE 1686 00:46:48,306 --> 00:46:49,005 >> Reporter: THE JOURNALS ARE NOT SO COMPLIMENTARY OF RENEE? 1687 00:46:49,207 --> 00:46:49,505 NOT SO COMPLIMENTARY OF RENEE? >> NO, NOT A BIT 1688 00:46:49,707 --> 00:46:50,573 >> NO, NOT A BIT HE HAD AN ABSOLUTE HATRED FOR 1689 00:46:50,775 --> 00:46:51,641 HE HAD AN ABSOLUTE HATRED FOR RENEE. 1690 00:46:51,843 --> 00:46:52,675 RENEE. >> Reporter: DETECTIVE MARKS 1691 00:46:52,877 --> 00:46:53,743 >> Reporter: DETECTIVE MARKS READ A PASSAGE FROM THE 1692 00:46:53,945 --> 00:46:55,344 READ A PASSAGE FROM THE UNEARTHED JOURNALS 1693 00:46:55,546 --> 00:46:56,379 UNEARTHED JOURNALS >> "THE BITCH IS SUCH A DRAIN. 1694 00:46:56,581 --> 00:46:57,947 >> "THE BITCH IS SUCH A DRAIN. I AM NOT APPRECIATED FOR 1695 00:46:58,149 --> 00:46:59,015 I AM NOT APPRECIATED FOR ANYTHING, NOT RESPECTED FOR 1696 00:46:59,217 --> 00:47:00,583 ANYTHING, NOT RESPECTED FOR ANYTHING I HAVE DONE OR I AM 1697 00:47:00,785 --> 00:47:01,651 ANYTHING I HAVE DONE OR I AM DOING OR I WILL DO 1698 00:47:01,853 --> 00:47:03,319 DOING OR I WILL DO I MUST TERMINATE WITH EXTREME 1699 00:47:03,521 --> 00:47:05,888 I MUST TERMINATE WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE. 1700 00:47:06,090 --> 00:47:07,490 PREJUDICE. >> Reporter: TERMINATE 1701 00:47:07,692 --> 00:47:09,058 >> Reporter: TERMINATE THAT SOUNDED OMINOUS 1702 00:47:09,260 --> 00:47:10,126 THAT SOUNDED OMINOUS THEY STILL HAD NO PHYSICAL 1703 00:47:10,328 --> 00:47:12,228 THEY STILL HAD NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE TO LINK HIM TO THE 1704 00:47:12,430 --> 00:47:13,796 EVIDENCE TO LINK HIM TO THE CRIME, BUT THEY DID HAVE AN 1705 00:47:13,998 --> 00:47:15,765 CRIME, BUT THEY DID HAVE AN ALIBI TO PICK APART. 1706 00:47:15,967 --> 00:47:16,465 ALIBI TO PICK APART. REMEMBER, IT WAS JUST HIS MOM 1707 00:47:16,667 --> 00:47:18,067 REMEMBER, IT WAS JUST HIS MOM SAYING HE'D SLEPT IN THE LIVING 1708 00:47:18,269 --> 00:47:20,436 SAYING HE'D SLEPT IN THE LIVING ROOM WITH THE KIDS THE NIGHT OF 1709 00:47:20,638 --> 00:47:20,770 ROOM WITH THE KIDS THE NIGHT OF RENEE'S MURDER 1710 00:47:20,972 --> 00:47:22,271 RENEE'S MURDER HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT HIS MOM AS 1711 00:47:22,473 --> 00:47:23,840 HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT HIS MOM AS HIS ALIBI? 1712 00:47:24,042 --> 00:47:27,777 HIS ALIBI? >> YOU KNOW, I -- AGAIN, AT 1713 00:47:27,979 --> 00:47:29,412 >> YOU KNOW, I -- AGAIN, AT FIRST, WE JUST -- I DIDN'T WANNA 1714 00:47:29,614 --> 00:47:30,012 FIRST, WE JUST -- I DIDN'T WANNA PUT EVERYTHING ON MICHAEL, YOU 1715 00:47:30,214 --> 00:47:31,280 PUT EVERYTHING ON MICHAEL, YOU KNOW 1716 00:47:31,482 --> 00:47:33,649 KNOW SO I'M LISTENING 1717 00:47:33,851 --> 00:47:34,283 SO I'M LISTENING I'M TRYIN' TO, YOU KNOW, BELIEVE 1718 00:47:34,485 --> 00:47:35,284 I'M TRYIN' TO, YOU KNOW, BELIEVE HER. 1719 00:47:35,486 --> 00:47:37,220 HER. BUT ALSO IN THE BACK OF MY MIND, 1720 00:47:37,422 --> 00:47:37,753 BUT ALSO IN THE BACK OF MY MIND, I'M LIKE, YEAH, IT IS HIS 1721 00:47:37,955 --> 00:47:39,021 I'M LIKE, YEAH, IT IS HIS MOTHER 1722 00:47:39,223 --> 00:47:41,324 MOTHER SO I -- I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHAT 1723 00:47:41,526 --> 00:47:44,160 SO I -- I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHAT SHE'S GOING TO SAY OR DO TO 1724 00:47:44,362 --> 00:47:45,194 SHE'S GOING TO SAY OR DO TO PROTECT OR NOT PROTECT HER SON 1725 00:47:45,396 --> 00:47:46,262 PROTECT OR NOT PROTECT HER SON >> Reporter: AND INVESTIGATORS 1726 00:47:46,464 --> 00:47:47,864 >> Reporter: AND INVESTIGATORS SAW A HOLE IN THE MOM'S STORY. 1727 00:47:48,066 --> 00:47:48,898 SAW A HOLE IN THE MOM'S STORY. >> SHE SAID CANDIDLY, "WELL, I 1728 00:47:49,100 --> 00:47:50,499 >> SHE SAID CANDIDLY, "WELL, I DID HEAR THE DOOR OPEN, THE 1729 00:47:50,701 --> 00:47:51,567 DID HEAR THE DOOR OPEN, THE SLIDER, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 1730 00:47:51,769 --> 00:47:52,602 SLIDER, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT ABOUT 3:00 A.M." 1731 00:47:52,804 --> 00:47:53,669 NIGHT ABOUT 3:00 A.M." WHICH WE THINK IS IN, FOR SURE, 1732 00:47:53,871 --> 00:47:55,238 WHICH WE THINK IS IN, FOR SURE, IN OUR RANGE WHEN SHE WAS 1733 00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:56,305 IN OUR RANGE WHEN SHE WAS KILLED 1734 00:47:56,507 --> 00:47:57,373 KILLED AND SHE THOUGHT IT WAS ODD 1735 00:47:57,575 --> 00:47:58,441 AND SHE THOUGHT IT WAS ODD AND THERE WERE A COUPLE TIMES 1736 00:47:58,643 --> 00:47:59,475 AND THERE WERE A COUPLE TIMES SHE HEARD THE DOOR THAT NIGHT. 1737 00:47:59,677 --> 00:48:01,277 SHE HEARD THE DOOR THAT NIGHT. AND WE THOUGHT, "WELL, THAT'S 1738 00:48:01,479 --> 00:48:02,111 AND WE THOUGHT, "WELL, THAT'S THE WINDOW." 1739 00:48:02,313 --> 00:48:05,014 THE WINDOW." >> Reporter: A WINDOW OF 1740 00:48:05,216 --> 00:48:06,616 >> Reporter: A WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY TO COMMIT THE CRIME. 1741 00:48:06,818 --> 00:48:07,250 OPPORTUNITY TO COMMIT THE CRIME. THEY WANTED TO TALK TO MICHAEL'S 1742 00:48:07,452 --> 00:48:08,918 THEY WANTED TO TALK TO MICHAEL'S MOM AGAIN, THIS TIME ON THE 1743 00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:10,519 MOM AGAIN, THIS TIME ON THE RECORD 1744 00:48:10,721 --> 00:48:13,656 RECORD THE PROSECUTORS TURNED TO A 1745 00:48:13,858 --> 00:48:14,924 THE PROSECUTORS TURNED TO A SPECIAL LEGAL TOOL USED IN 1746 00:48:15,126 --> 00:48:18,094 SPECIAL LEGAL TOOL USED IN MICHIGAN CALLED AN INVESTIGATIVE 1747 00:48:18,296 --> 00:48:21,264 MICHIGAN CALLED AN INVESTIGATIVE SUBPOENA 1748 00:48:21,466 --> 00:48:24,367 SUBPOENA >> THIS INVESTIGATIVE SUBPOENA 1749 00:48:24,569 --> 00:48:25,801 >> THIS INVESTIGATIVE SUBPOENA PROCESS ALLOWS US TO, IN SECRET, 1750 00:48:26,003 --> 00:48:27,937 PROCESS ALLOWS US TO, IN SECRET, SUBPOENA PEOPLE BY COURT ORDER, 1751 00:48:28,139 --> 00:48:28,471 SUBPOENA PEOPLE BY COURT ORDER, BRING THEM IN. 1752 00:48:28,673 --> 00:48:29,805 BRING THEM IN. AND WE USE A COURTROOM 1753 00:48:30,007 --> 00:48:30,573 AND WE USE A COURTROOM AND THEY HAVE TO TAKE THE STAND, 1754 00:48:30,775 --> 00:48:31,641 AND THEY HAVE TO TAKE THE STAND, TAKE AN OATH 1755 00:48:31,843 --> 00:48:35,278 TAKE AN OATH >> Reporter: PATRICIA PAGEL WAS 1756 00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:35,778 >> Reporter: PATRICIA PAGEL WAS SERVED WITH ONE OF THOSE 1757 00:48:35,980 --> 00:48:37,446 SERVED WITH ONE OF THOSE SUBPOENAS, AND THE COURT 1758 00:48:37,648 --> 00:48:38,247 SUBPOENAS, AND THE COURT RECORDED HER QUESTIONING 1759 00:48:38,449 --> 00:48:39,282 RECORDED HER QUESTIONING >> GOOD AFTERNOON, MA'AM 1760 00:48:39,484 --> 00:48:40,349 >> GOOD AFTERNOON, MA'AM MY NAME IS KELLEE KONCKI WITH 1761 00:48:40,551 --> 00:48:41,384 MY NAME IS KELLEE KONCKI WITH THE KENT COUNTY PROSECUTOR'S 1762 00:48:41,586 --> 00:48:42,451 THE KENT COUNTY PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE 1763 00:48:42,653 --> 00:48:43,519 OFFICE >> Reporter: THE PROSECUTOR 1764 00:48:43,721 --> 00:48:44,720 >> Reporter: THE PROSECUTOR WANTED TO KNOW IF PATRICIA WOULD 1765 00:48:44,922 --> 00:48:46,355 WANTED TO KNOW IF PATRICIA WOULD CONFIRM UNDER OATH THAT SHE 1766 00:48:46,557 --> 00:48:46,989 CONFIRM UNDER OATH THAT SHE HEARD THE SLIDING DOOR OPEN AND 1767 00:48:47,191 --> 00:48:47,823 HEARD THE SLIDING DOOR OPEN AND CLOSE THAT NIGHT 1768 00:48:48,025 --> 00:48:48,791 CLOSE THAT NIGHT >> DID YOU HEAR THE DOG BEING 1769 00:48:48,993 --> 00:48:49,859 >> DID YOU HEAR THE DOG BEING LET OUT AT ALL THAT NIGHT? 1770 00:48:50,061 --> 00:48:50,860 LET OUT AT ALL THAT NIGHT? >> NO, I DIDN'T. 1771 00:48:51,062 --> 00:48:52,128 >> NO, I DIDN'T. NO 1772 00:48:52,330 --> 00:48:52,995 NO >> NOW YOU HESITATED 1773 00:48:53,197 --> 00:48:54,063 >> NOW YOU HESITATED ANY REASON 1774 00:48:54,265 --> 00:48:55,665 ANY REASON >> PARDON? 1775 00:48:55,867 --> 00:48:57,233 >> PARDON? >> NOW SHE'S SAYING, "NO, THAT 1776 00:48:57,435 --> 00:48:58,534 >> NOW SHE'S SAYING, "NO, THAT WASN'T CORRECT 1777 00:48:58,736 --> 00:48:59,869 WASN'T CORRECT I DON'T REMEMBER SAYING THAT 1778 00:49:00,071 --> 00:49:01,704 I DON'T REMEMBER SAYING THAT I KNOW THAT THE DOG WENT OUT, 1779 00:49:01,906 --> 00:49:02,505 I KNOW THAT THE DOG WENT OUT, BUT I SAW MIKE." 1780 00:49:02,707 --> 00:49:05,942 BUT I SAW MIKE." YOU KNOW, SHE PUT HIM THERE. 1781 00:49:06,144 --> 00:49:08,044 YOU KNOW, SHE PUT HIM THERE. >> DID YOU HEAR ANYONE OPEN OR 1782 00:49:08,246 --> 00:49:09,578 >> DID YOU HEAR ANYONE OPEN OR CLOSE THE SLIDER OR ANYTHING 1783 00:49:09,780 --> 00:49:12,248 CLOSE THE SLIDER OR ANYTHING THAT SOUNDED LIKE THE SLIDER 1784 00:49:12,450 --> 00:49:12,748 THAT SOUNDED LIKE THE SLIDER ONCE YOU WENT TO BED 1785 00:49:12,950 --> 00:49:13,816 ONCE YOU WENT TO BED >> NO, I GUESS I DID NOT 1786 00:49:14,018 --> 00:49:15,184 >> NO, I GUESS I DID NOT >> CERTAINLY, YOU COULD HEAR 1787 00:49:15,386 --> 00:49:15,918 >> CERTAINLY, YOU COULD HEAR THAT SLIDER IF IT OPENED OR 1788 00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:16,986 THAT SLIDER IF IT OPENED OR CLOSED 1789 00:49:17,188 --> 00:49:18,054 CLOSED WOULDN'T YOU THINK 1790 00:49:18,256 --> 00:49:19,622 WOULDN'T YOU THINK >> DID I HEAR IT 1791 00:49:19,824 --> 00:49:20,656 >> DID I HEAR IT YOU KNOW, I CANNOT SAY RIGHT 1792 00:49:20,858 --> 00:49:21,724 YOU KNOW, I CANNOT SAY RIGHT NOW. 1793 00:49:21,926 --> 00:49:22,258 NOW. I DON'T KNOW 1794 00:49:22,460 --> 00:49:24,493 I DON'T KNOW >> SHE GAVE HIM NO OPPORTUNITY 1795 00:49:24,695 --> 00:49:27,296 >> SHE GAVE HIM NO OPPORTUNITY TO NOT BE THERE. 1796 00:49:27,498 --> 00:49:28,364 TO NOT BE THERE. SO NOW SHE'S COVERING. 1797 00:49:28,566 --> 00:49:29,398 SO NOW SHE'S COVERING. >> Reporter: FINISHED WITH 1798 00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:30,466 >> Reporter: FINISHED WITH PATRICIA, A FEW DAYS LATER, 1799 00:49:30,668 --> 00:49:32,068 PATRICIA, A FEW DAYS LATER, PROSECUTORS USED ANOTHER 1800 00:49:32,270 --> 00:49:33,102 PROSECUTORS USED ANOTHER SUBPOENA TO CALL IN MICHAEL FOR 1801 00:49:33,304 --> 00:49:34,170 SUBPOENA TO CALL IN MICHAEL FOR QUESTIONING. 1802 00:49:34,372 --> 00:49:38,040 QUESTIONING. THROUGH HIS LAWYER, MICHAEL SAID 1803 00:49:38,242 --> 00:49:38,841 THROUGH HIS LAWYER, MICHAEL SAID THAT CERTAIN TOPICS WERE OFF 1804 00:49:39,043 --> 00:49:40,443 THAT CERTAIN TOPICS WERE OFF LIMITS -- THE DIVORCE, HIS 1805 00:49:40,645 --> 00:49:41,477 LIMITS -- THE DIVORCE, HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS WIFE 1806 00:49:41,679 --> 00:49:42,545 RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS WIFE IF THEY DIDN'T AGREE TO HIS 1807 00:49:42,747 --> 00:49:43,612 IF THEY DIDN'T AGREE TO HIS TERMS, HE WOULD PLEAD THE FIFTH. 1808 00:49:43,814 --> 00:49:46,048 TERMS, HE WOULD PLEAD THE FIFTH. >> Reporter: AND THEN YOU GET 1809 00:49:46,250 --> 00:49:47,583 >> Reporter: AND THEN YOU GET NOTHING. 1810 00:49:47,785 --> 00:49:50,152 NOTHING. >> I HAVE NOTHING. 1811 00:49:50,354 --> 00:49:52,288 >> I HAVE NOTHING. AND I AGREED ONLY BECAUSE, WHAT 1812 00:49:52,490 --> 00:49:54,957 AND I AGREED ONLY BECAUSE, WHAT CHOICE DO I HAVE 1813 00:49:54,959 --> 00:49:55,591 CHOICE DO I HAVE >> DO YOU REMEMBER IF YOU GOT UP 1814 00:49:55,793 --> 00:49:56,525 >> DO YOU REMEMBER IF YOU GOT UP ALL THAT NIGHT 1815 00:49:56,727 --> 00:49:57,560 ALL THAT NIGHT >> NO. 1816 00:49:57,762 --> 00:49:58,194 >> NO. >> NO YOU DIDN'T OR NO YOU DON'T 1817 00:49:58,396 --> 00:50:00,963 >> NO YOU DIDN'T OR NO YOU DON'T REMEMBER 1818 00:50:00,965 --> 00:50:02,398 REMEMBER >> NO, I DIDN'T. 1819 00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:03,366 >> NO, I DIDN'T. >> DO YOU REMEMBER IF THE 1820 00:50:03,568 --> 00:50:05,835 >> DO YOU REMEMBER IF THE CHILDREN WOKE UP AT ANY TIME 1821 00:50:06,037 --> 00:50:06,402 CHILDREN WOKE UP AT ANY TIME DURING THE NIGHT THAT NIGHT? 1822 00:50:06,604 --> 00:50:07,036 DURING THE NIGHT THAT NIGHT? >> N -- NO 1823 00:50:07,238 --> 00:50:08,104 >> N -- NO >> DO YOU REMEMBER IF YOUR MOM 1824 00:50:08,306 --> 00:50:09,171 >> DO YOU REMEMBER IF YOUR MOM GOT UP FOR ANY REASON THAT NIGHT 1825 00:50:09,373 --> 00:50:10,206 GOT UP FOR ANY REASON THAT NIGHT THAT YOU WERE AWARE OF 1826 00:50:10,408 --> 00:50:11,807 THAT YOU WERE AWARE OF >> NO. 1827 00:50:12,009 --> 00:50:12,842 >> NO. >> Reporter: THE PROSECUTOR KEPT 1828 00:50:13,044 --> 00:50:13,909 >> Reporter: THE PROSECUTOR KEPT AT IT, AND KEPT GETTING VERY 1829 00:50:14,111 --> 00:50:14,944 AT IT, AND KEPT GETTING VERY LITTLE 1830 00:50:15,146 --> 00:50:16,045 LITTLE >> YOU'VE ALREADY TOLD ME YOU 1831 00:50:16,247 --> 00:50:17,613 >> YOU'VE ALREADY TOLD ME YOU WERE NOT AT, AT OR IN RENEE'S 1832 00:50:17,815 --> 00:50:18,681 WERE NOT AT, AT OR IN RENEE'S HOME EITHER ON THE 4th WHICH IS 1833 00:50:18,883 --> 00:50:20,016 HOME EITHER ON THE 4th WHICH IS A FRIDAY OR THE 5th WHICH IS A 1834 00:50:20,218 --> 00:50:20,783 A FRIDAY OR THE 5th WHICH IS A SATURDAY AT ANY TIME 1835 00:50:20,985 --> 00:50:21,851 SATURDAY AT ANY TIME >> Y -- THAT'S CORRECT 1836 00:50:22,053 --> 00:50:24,487 >> Y -- THAT'S CORRECT >> NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT 1837 00:50:24,689 --> 00:50:25,988 >> NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT >> NO DOUBT. 1838 00:50:26,190 --> 00:50:27,023 >> NO DOUBT. >> AND DID YOU KILL HER? 1839 00:50:27,225 --> 00:50:28,090 >> AND DID YOU KILL HER? >> NO. 1840 00:50:28,292 --> 00:50:30,359 >> NO. >> DID YOU CONSPIRE TO KILL HER 1841 00:50:30,561 --> 00:50:31,761 >> DID YOU CONSPIRE TO KILL HER WITH ANYONE ELSE 1842 00:50:31,963 --> 00:50:33,362 WITH ANYONE ELSE >> NO. 1843 00:50:33,564 --> 00:50:34,397 >> NO. >> DID YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE 1844 00:50:34,599 --> 00:50:35,965 >> DID YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE PRIOR TO LEARNING THAT SHE WAS 1845 00:50:36,167 --> 00:50:37,033 PRIOR TO LEARNING THAT SHE WAS DEAD, THROUGH THE POLICE, THAT 1846 00:50:37,235 --> 00:50:38,801 DEAD, THROUGH THE POLICE, THAT SHE HAD BEEN KILLED? 1847 00:50:39,003 --> 00:50:40,202 SHE HAD BEEN KILLED? >> NO. 1848 00:50:40,404 --> 00:50:41,771 >> NO. >> HAS ANYONE ADMITTED TO YOU 1849 00:50:41,973 --> 00:50:42,805 >> HAS ANYONE ADMITTED TO YOU THAT THEY KILLED HER OR KNEW WHO 1850 00:50:43,007 --> 00:50:44,407 THAT THEY KILLED HER OR KNEW WHO KILLED HER 1851 00:50:44,609 --> 00:50:45,474 KILLED HER >> NO. 1852 00:50:45,676 --> 00:50:47,043 >> NO. >> Reporter: HOW WAS MICHAEL'S 1853 00:50:47,245 --> 00:50:48,611 >> Reporter: HOW WAS MICHAEL'S DEMEANOR IN THE QUESTIONING? 1854 00:50:48,813 --> 00:50:50,179 DEMEANOR IN THE QUESTIONING? >> I DON'T THINK HE EVER STRUCK 1855 00:50:50,381 --> 00:50:51,280 >> I DON'T THINK HE EVER STRUCK ME AS SOMEBODY THAT, DIVORCE OR 1856 00:50:51,482 --> 00:50:53,382 ME AS SOMEBODY THAT, DIVORCE OR NOT, WAS GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND 1857 00:50:53,584 --> 00:50:55,484 NOT, WAS GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND TO TRY TO HELP FIND WHO KILLED 1858 00:50:55,686 --> 00:50:57,586 TO TRY TO HELP FIND WHO KILLED HIS -- THE MOTHER OF HIS 1859 00:50:57,788 --> 00:50:59,155 HIS -- THE MOTHER OF HIS CHILDREN, HIS WIFE 1860 00:50:59,357 --> 00:51:00,756 CHILDREN, HIS WIFE NEVER WAS FORTHCOMING. 1861 00:51:00,958 --> 00:51:02,358 NEVER WAS FORTHCOMING. NEVER WAS -- IT WAS ALMOST LIKE 1862 00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:04,460 NEVER WAS -- IT WAS ALMOST LIKE PULLING TEETH TO TRY TO GET 1863 00:51:04,662 --> 00:51:05,995 PULLING TEETH TO TRY TO GET ANYTHING OUT OF HIM. 1864 00:51:06,197 --> 00:51:07,096 ANYTHING OUT OF HIM. >> Reporter: PROSECUTORS BROUGHT 1865 00:51:07,298 --> 00:51:08,697 >> Reporter: PROSECUTORS BROUGHT MICHAEL BACK TWO WEEKS LATER TO 1866 00:51:08,899 --> 00:51:09,732 MICHAEL BACK TWO WEEKS LATER TO ASK ABOUT THE JOURNALS 1867 00:51:09,934 --> 00:51:10,800 ASK ABOUT THE JOURNALS DISCOVERED BY POLICE 1868 00:51:11,002 --> 00:51:14,136 DISCOVERED BY POLICE >> IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING YOU'RE 1869 00:51:14,338 --> 00:51:17,073 >> IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING YOU'RE NOT GONNA ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS 1870 00:51:17,275 --> 00:51:18,307 NOT GONNA ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT -- YOU'RE GONNA TAKE THE 1871 00:51:18,509 --> 00:51:18,908 ABOUT -- YOU'RE GONNA TAKE THE FIFTH REGARDING THE JOURNALING 1872 00:51:19,110 --> 00:51:20,843 FIFTH REGARDING THE JOURNALING THAT'S IN THOSE HARD DRIVES, IS 1873 00:51:21,045 --> 00:51:23,279 THAT'S IN THOSE HARD DRIVES, IS THAT CORRECT 1874 00:51:23,481 --> 00:51:24,880 THAT CORRECT >> THAT WOULD BE MY INSTRUCTION 1875 00:51:25,082 --> 00:51:25,414 >> THAT WOULD BE MY INSTRUCTION TO MR. PAGEL 1876 00:51:25,616 --> 00:51:26,449 TO MR. PAGEL >> WHEN HE CAME IN, HE ACTED 1877 00:51:26,651 --> 00:51:27,516 >> WHEN HE CAME IN, HE ACTED VERY COOPERATIVE 1878 00:51:27,718 --> 00:51:28,584 VERY COOPERATIVE BUT WHEN YOU WENT TO QUESTIONS 1879 00:51:28,786 --> 00:51:29,618 BUT WHEN YOU WENT TO QUESTIONS LIKE, "WELL, REALLY," YOU KNOW, 1880 00:51:29,820 --> 00:51:30,853 LIKE, "WELL, REALLY," YOU KNOW, "DIDN'T YOU FOR YEARS WRITE IN 1881 00:51:31,055 --> 00:51:33,389 "DIDN'T YOU FOR YEARS WRITE IN YOUR JOURNALS AND DIARIES THAT 1882 00:51:33,591 --> 00:51:34,490 YOUR JOURNALS AND DIARIES THAT YOU HATED HER, YOU WANTED HER 1883 00:51:34,692 --> 00:51:37,026 YOU HATED HER, YOU WANTED HER OUT OF YOUR LIFE, YOU WANTED HER 1884 00:51:37,228 --> 00:51:40,696 OUT OF YOUR LIFE, YOU WANTED HER GONE?" 1885 00:51:40,898 --> 00:51:41,230 GONE?" HE WOULDN'T ANSWER IT. 1886 00:51:41,432 --> 00:51:42,264 HE WOULDN'T ANSWER IT. >> YOU'VE CONFIRMED WHEN I 1887 00:51:42,466 --> 00:51:43,933 >> YOU'VE CONFIRMED WHEN I CALLED IT JOURNALING, THERE'S 1888 00:51:44,135 --> 00:51:44,500 CALLED IT JOURNALING, THERE'S JOURNALING ON ONE OR MORE OF 1889 00:51:44,702 --> 00:51:45,468 JOURNALING ON ONE OR MORE OF THESE HARD DRIVES. 1890 00:51:45,670 --> 00:51:46,502 THESE HARD DRIVES. BY YOURSELF, CORRECT 1891 00:51:46,704 --> 00:51:47,970 BY YOURSELF, CORRECT >> CORRECT 1892 00:51:48,172 --> 00:51:48,637 >> CORRECT >> IN THIS JOURNALING YOU DO 1893 00:51:48,839 --> 00:51:49,672 >> IN THIS JOURNALING YOU DO MENTION YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT 1894 00:51:49,874 --> 00:51:50,739 MENTION YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT RENEE, CORRECT 1895 00:51:50,941 --> 00:51:51,340 RENEE, CORRECT >> I AM GOING TO INSTRUCT YOU 1896 00:51:51,542 --> 00:51:52,308 >> I AM GOING TO INSTRUCT YOU NOT TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION. 1897 00:51:52,510 --> 00:51:53,409 NOT TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION. >> SO WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE? 1898 00:51:53,611 --> 00:51:54,410 >> SO WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE? >> I ASSERT THE FIFTH IS WHAT 1899 00:51:54,612 --> 00:51:55,444 >> I ASSERT THE FIFTH IS WHAT YOU SHOULD SAY 1900 00:51:55,646 --> 00:51:56,645 YOU SHOULD SAY >> I ASSERT THE FIFTH. 1901 00:51:56,847 --> 00:51:58,114 >> I ASSERT THE FIFTH. >> DID WE THINK WE WERE GONNA 1902 00:51:58,316 --> 00:51:59,148 >> DID WE THINK WE WERE GONNA GET A CONFESSION FROM HIM? 1903 00:51:59,350 --> 00:52:00,216 GET A CONFESSION FROM HIM? NO 1904 00:52:00,418 --> 00:52:01,250 NO BUT I THINK WE HAD TO LOCK HIM 1905 00:52:01,452 --> 00:52:03,219 BUT I THINK WE HAD TO LOCK HIM INTO A STORY, SO THEN WE COULD 1906 00:52:03,421 --> 00:52:06,455 INTO A STORY, SO THEN WE COULD WORK ON PULLING IT APART IF IT 1907 00:52:06,657 --> 00:52:10,059 WORK ON PULLING IT APART IF IT WASN'T TRUE. 1908 00:52:10,261 --> 00:52:11,127 WASN'T TRUE. HOW HE ACTED WAS SUSPICIOUS. 1909 00:52:11,329 --> 00:52:12,261 HOW HE ACTED WAS SUSPICIOUS. LIKE, HE ACTED LIKE HE WAS 1910 00:52:12,463 --> 00:52:13,262 LIKE, HE ACTED LIKE HE WAS COVERING, LIKE HE WASN'T 1911 00:52:13,464 --> 00:52:14,330 COVERING, LIKE HE WASN'T COMFORTABLE WITH WHAT HE WAS 1912 00:52:14,532 --> 00:52:16,098 COMFORTABLE WITH WHAT HE WAS SAYING, THINGS LIKE THAT 1913 00:52:16,300 --> 00:52:16,966 SAYING, THINGS LIKE THAT BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T -- YOU 1914 00:52:17,168 --> 00:52:18,000 BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T -- YOU CAN'T CHARGE ON SUSPICION. 1915 00:52:18,202 --> 00:52:19,068 CAN'T CHARGE ON SUSPICION. >> Reporter: PROSECUTORS DIDN'T 1916 00:52:19,270 --> 00:52:20,136 >> Reporter: PROSECUTORS DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH TO CHARGE MICHAEL 1917 00:52:20,338 --> 00:52:21,971 HAVE ENOUGH TO CHARGE MICHAEL PAGEL. 1918 00:52:22,173 --> 00:52:23,806 PAGEL. AND DESPITE ALL THE RED HOT 1919 00:52:24,008 --> 00:52:25,941 AND DESPITE ALL THE RED HOT SUSPICION, THE CASE WAS GROWING 1920 00:52:26,143 --> 00:52:27,510 SUSPICION, THE CASE WAS GROWING ICE COLD 1921 00:52:27,712 --> 00:52:29,111 ICE COLD MONTHS TURNED INTO YEARS 1922 00:52:29,113 --> 00:52:30,679 MONTHS TURNED INTO YEARS SARAH WAS GROWING UP LARGELY 1923 00:52:30,881 --> 00:52:32,581 SARAH WAS GROWING UP LARGELY OBLIVIOUS TO THE POLICE 1924 00:52:32,783 --> 00:52:35,451 OBLIVIOUS TO THE POLICE INVESTIGATION THAT HAD CENTERED 1925 00:52:35,653 --> 00:52:36,752 INVESTIGATION THAT HAD CENTERED ON HER DAD 1926 00:52:36,954 --> 00:52:37,653 ON HER DAD DID YOU WORRY ALL THESE YEARS 1927 00:52:37,855 --> 00:52:39,755 DID YOU WORRY ALL THESE YEARS ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOUR MOM'S 1928 00:52:39,957 --> 00:52:40,823 ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOUR MOM'S KILLER WAS WALKING FREE? 1929 00:52:41,025 --> 00:52:42,158 KILLER WAS WALKING FREE? >> I MEAN YEAH 1930 00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:42,925 >> I MEAN YEAH IT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK 1931 00:52:43,127 --> 00:52:43,959 IT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK EVERYONE WOULD -- WOULD WORRY 1932 00:52:44,161 --> 00:52:47,363 EVERYONE WOULD -- WOULD WORRY ABOUT. 1933 00:52:47,565 --> 00:52:47,997 ABOUT. AND -- AND WONDERING, YOU KNOW, 1934 00:52:48,199 --> 00:52:49,465 AND -- AND WONDERING, YOU KNOW, WHO IT WAS, WONDERING WHAT 1935 00:52:49,667 --> 00:52:50,499 WHO IT WAS, WONDERING WHAT HAPPENED 1936 00:52:50,701 --> 00:52:51,767 HAPPENED BUT IT WAS SOMETHING THAT AS I 1937 00:52:51,969 --> 00:52:52,368 BUT IT WAS SOMETHING THAT AS I GOT OLDER, IT REALLY FELT LIKE 1938 00:52:52,570 --> 00:52:53,135 GOT OLDER, IT REALLY FELT LIKE THERE WASN'T EVER GONNA BE AN 1939 00:52:53,137 --> 00:52:54,203 THERE WASN'T EVER GONNA BE AN ANSWER 1940 00:52:54,405 --> 00:52:56,405 ANSWER >> Reporter: BUT RENEE'S FRIENDS 1941 00:52:56,607 --> 00:52:57,339 >> Reporter: BUT RENEE'S FRIENDS WERE DETERMINED THAT WOULDN'T 1942 00:52:57,541 --> 00:53:01,410 WERE DETERMINED THAT WOULDN'T HAPPEN 1943 00:53:01,612 --> 00:53:02,645 HAPPEN >>> COMING UP -- 1944 00:53:02,847 --> 00:53:03,512 >>> COMING UP -- THAT ORANGE FLASHLIGHT FOUND IN 1945 00:53:03,714 --> 00:53:05,548 THAT ORANGE FLASHLIGHT FOUND IN THE GRASS IS ABOUT TO BECOME A 1946 00:53:05,750 --> 00:53:06,815 THE GRASS IS ABOUT TO BECOME A CRUCIAL NEW CLUE 1947 00:53:07,017 --> 00:53:09,084 CRUCIAL NEW CLUE >> THIS IS THE SMOKING 1948 00:53:09,286 --> 00:53:10,753 >> THIS IS THE SMOKING FLASHLIGHT 1949 00:53:10,955 --> 00:53:11,787 FLASHLIGHT >> YEAH, IT KIND OF IS 1950 00:53:11,989 --> 00:53:12,354 >> YEAH, IT KIND OF IS >> YEAH. 1951 00:53:12,556 --> 00:53:13,389 >> YEAH. >> AND, WAS SOMEONE FINALLY 1952 00:53:13,591 --> 00:53:14,990 >> AND, WAS SOMEONE FINALLY READY TO TALK? 1953 00:53:15,192 --> 00:53:32,041 READY TO TALK? >> HE SENT ME A FRIEND REQUE 1954 00:53:32,243 --> 00:53:34,443 >> HE SENT ME A FRIEND REQUE >>> Reporter: SARAH SAYS, 1955 00:53:34,645 --> 00:53:36,145 >>> Reporter: SARAH SAYS, GROWING UP, HER FAMILY DIDN'T 1956 00:53:36,347 --> 00:53:36,879 GROWING UP, HER FAMILY DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THE MURDER. 1957 00:53:37,081 --> 00:53:38,447 TALK ABOUT THE MURDER. BUT HER FATHER, MICHAEL, DID 1958 00:53:38,649 --> 00:53:44,019 BUT HER FATHER, MICHAEL, DID TALK TO THEM ABOUT RENEE 1959 00:53:44,221 --> 00:53:46,055 TALK TO THEM ABOUT RENEE >> HE TALKED ABOUT THE GOOD 1960 00:53:46,257 --> 00:53:50,826 >> HE TALKED ABOUT THE GOOD TIMES AND HOW WE WERE SIMILAR 1961 00:53:51,028 --> 00:53:52,962 TIMES AND HOW WE WERE SIMILAR AND, YOU KNOW, HOUR SENSES OF 1962 00:53:53,164 --> 00:53:53,495 AND, YOU KNOW, HOUR SENSES OF HUMOR. 1963 00:53:53,697 --> 00:53:54,563 HUMOR. AND, LIKE, HOW I LOVED CHRISTMAS 1964 00:53:54,765 --> 00:53:55,631 AND, LIKE, HOW I LOVED CHRISTMAS AND THINGS LIKE THAT 1965 00:53:55,833 --> 00:53:56,665 AND THINGS LIKE THAT AND IT WASN'T -- IT NEVER FELT 1966 00:53:56,867 --> 00:53:57,733 AND IT WASN'T -- IT NEVER FELT LIKE IT WAS HOSTILE. 1967 00:53:57,935 --> 00:53:58,500 LIKE IT WAS HOSTILE. IT NEVER FELT LIKE THERE WAS ANY 1968 00:53:58,702 --> 00:53:59,868 IT NEVER FELT LIKE THERE WAS ANY SORT OF REASON, LIKE, YOU 1969 00:54:00,070 --> 00:54:00,436 SORT OF REASON, LIKE, YOU COULDN'T BRING HER UP OR YOU 1970 00:54:00,638 --> 00:54:01,470 COULDN'T BRING HER UP OR YOU SHOULDN'T TALK ABOUT HER 1971 00:54:01,672 --> 00:54:02,805 SHOULDN'T TALK ABOUT HER THAT WAS NEVER, YOU KNOW, THE 1972 00:54:03,007 --> 00:54:03,572 THAT WAS NEVER, YOU KNOW, THE ATMOSPHERE IN OUR HOUSE. 1973 00:54:03,774 --> 00:54:04,673 ATMOSPHERE IN OUR HOUSE. >> Reporter: DID YOU FEEL LIKE 1974 00:54:04,875 --> 00:54:05,708 >> Reporter: DID YOU FEEL LIKE HE DID THE BEST HE COULD RAISING 1975 00:54:05,910 --> 00:54:06,242 HE DID THE BEST HE COULD RAISING YOU? 1976 00:54:06,444 --> 00:54:07,276 YOU? >> YEAH, I -- I DO 1977 00:54:07,478 --> 00:54:08,377 >> YEAH, I -- I DO >> Reporter: WERE THERE ANY 1978 00:54:08,579 --> 00:54:09,411 >> Reporter: WERE THERE ANY MILESTONES THAT YOU WOULD 1979 00:54:09,613 --> 00:54:10,479 MILESTONES THAT YOU WOULD CELEBRATE ABOUT YOUR MOM 1980 00:54:10,681 --> 00:54:11,547 CELEBRATE ABOUT YOUR MOM >> HER BIRTHDAY. 1981 00:54:11,749 --> 00:54:12,615 >> HER BIRTHDAY. WHEN WE WERE YOUNGER, WHEN WE 1982 00:54:12,817 --> 00:54:13,682 WHEN WE WERE YOUNGER, WHEN WE LIVED AROUND HERE, YOU KNOW, WE 1983 00:54:13,884 --> 00:54:15,251 LIVED AROUND HERE, YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT IT. 1984 00:54:15,453 --> 00:54:16,318 TALKED ABOUT IT. IT WAS, LIKE, A -- FLOWERS 1985 00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:17,386 IT WAS, LIKE, A -- FLOWERS WE DID THAT KIND OF STUFF REALLY 1986 00:54:17,588 --> 00:54:19,688 WE DID THAT KIND OF STUFF REALLY WITH HER SIDE OF THE FAMILY. 1987 00:54:19,890 --> 00:54:20,556 WITH HER SIDE OF THE FAMILY. WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME WITH THEM 1988 00:54:20,758 --> 00:54:22,124 WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME WITH THEM GROWING UP 1989 00:54:22,326 --> 00:54:24,093 GROWING UP >> Reporter: FRIENDS REMEMBERED 1990 00:54:24,295 --> 00:54:25,828 >> Reporter: FRIENDS REMEMBERED RENEE, TOO, AT GET-TOGETHERS AND 1991 00:54:26,030 --> 00:54:30,299 RENEE, TOO, AT GET-TOGETHERS AND VIGILS 1992 00:54:30,501 --> 00:54:30,899 VIGILS >> THE KINDEST, MOST WONDERFUL 1993 00:54:31,101 --> 00:54:32,835 >> THE KINDEST, MOST WONDERFUL PERSON I'VE EVER MET AND 1994 00:54:33,037 --> 00:54:34,036 PERSON I'VE EVER MET AND PROBABLY WILL EVER MEET. 1995 00:54:34,238 --> 00:54:34,937 PROBABLY WILL EVER MEET. >> Reporter: BUT MIXED WITH THE 1996 00:54:35,139 --> 00:54:37,072 >> Reporter: BUT MIXED WITH THE GOOD MEMORIES WAS A PROFOUND AND 1997 00:54:37,274 --> 00:54:39,708 GOOD MEMORIES WAS A PROFOUND AND GROWING FEELING OF ANGER 1998 00:54:39,910 --> 00:54:41,810 GROWING FEELING OF ANGER >> MY PRAYER IS FOR HIM TO COME 1999 00:54:42,012 --> 00:54:45,514 >> MY PRAYER IS FOR HIM TO COME TO A PLACE OF CONFESSION AND 2000 00:54:45,716 --> 00:54:47,116 TO A PLACE OF CONFESSION AND REPENTANCE 2001 00:54:47,318 --> 00:54:48,183 REPENTANCE >> THERE WAS ZERO, ZERO DOUBT IN 2002 00:54:48,385 --> 00:54:49,251 >> THERE WAS ZERO, ZERO DOUBT IN MY MIND. 2003 00:54:49,253 --> 00:54:50,853 MY MIND. LET ME MAKE THAT ABSOLUTELY 2004 00:54:51,055 --> 00:54:52,955 LET ME MAKE THAT ABSOLUTELY CLEAR. 2005 00:54:53,157 --> 00:54:55,624 CLEAR. ZERO DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT 2006 00:54:55,826 --> 00:54:59,428 ZERO DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT MIKE PAGEL DID IT. 2007 00:54:59,630 --> 00:55:00,462 MIKE PAGEL DID IT. >> I WAS SO ANGRY BECAUSE HE HAD 2008 00:55:00,664 --> 00:55:03,632 >> I WAS SO ANGRY BECAUSE HE HAD TAKEN MY BEST FRIEND, AND YET HE 2009 00:55:03,834 --> 00:55:04,700 TAKEN MY BEST FRIEND, AND YET HE GOT TO BE FREE 2010 00:55:04,902 --> 00:55:06,835 GOT TO BE FREE AND IT -- IT WAS -- IT WAS VERY 2011 00:55:07,037 --> 00:55:08,437 AND IT -- IT WAS -- IT WAS VERY HARD 2012 00:55:08,639 --> 00:55:10,005 HARD >> Reporter: JOYCE CARRIED A 2013 00:55:10,207 --> 00:55:11,106 >> Reporter: JOYCE CARRIED A SENSE OF GUILT ABOUT THE NIGHT 2014 00:55:11,308 --> 00:55:13,208 SENSE OF GUILT ABOUT THE NIGHT RENEE WAS KILLED 2015 00:55:13,410 --> 00:55:15,311 RENEE WAS KILLED >> SHE DESPERATELY WANTED ME TO 2016 00:55:15,513 --> 00:55:16,345 >> SHE DESPERATELY WANTED ME TO SPEND THE NIGHT WITH HER THAT 2017 00:55:16,547 --> 00:55:17,413 SPEND THE NIGHT WITH HER THAT NIGHT SO THAT I COULD GO TO AN 2018 00:55:17,615 --> 00:55:19,548 NIGHT SO THAT I COULD GO TO AN ART FAIR WITH HER THE NEXT DAY 2019 00:55:19,750 --> 00:55:21,684 ART FAIR WITH HER THE NEXT DAY AND I COULDN'T 2020 00:55:21,886 --> 00:55:25,554 AND I COULDN'T AND I FEEL SO TERRIBLE THAT I 2021 00:55:25,756 --> 00:55:27,323 AND I FEEL SO TERRIBLE THAT I DIDN'T PICK UP THOSE SIGNS 2022 00:55:27,525 --> 00:55:29,458 DIDN'T PICK UP THOSE SIGNS WOULD HE HAVE KILLED ME, TOO, OR 2023 00:55:29,660 --> 00:55:31,026 WOULD HE HAVE KILLED ME, TOO, OR WOULD I HAVE DETERRED HIM? 2024 00:55:31,228 --> 00:55:32,361 WOULD I HAVE DETERRED HIM? I DON'T KNOW 2025 00:55:32,563 --> 00:55:33,162 I DON'T KNOW I MEAN, I -- IT GOES THROUGH MY 2026 00:55:33,364 --> 00:55:34,730 I MEAN, I -- IT GOES THROUGH MY HEAD ALL THE TIME. 2027 00:55:34,932 --> 00:55:35,798 HEAD ALL THE TIME. I DON'T KNOW 2028 00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:37,399 I DON'T KNOW >> Reporter: AS TIME WENT BY 2029 00:55:37,601 --> 00:55:38,467 >> Reporter: AS TIME WENT BY WITHOUT AN ARREST, RENEE'S 2030 00:55:38,669 --> 00:55:40,569 WITHOUT AN ARREST, RENEE'S FRIENDS DID EVERYTHING THEY 2031 00:55:40,771 --> 00:55:43,772 FRIENDS DID EVERYTHING THEY COULD TO KEEP THE CASE ALIVE 2032 00:55:43,974 --> 00:55:45,908 COULD TO KEEP THE CASE ALIVE >> PUTTING UP POSTERS, FLYERS. 2033 00:55:46,110 --> 00:55:46,975 >> PUTTING UP POSTERS, FLYERS. WE HAD A "REMEMBER RENEE" NIGHT 2034 00:55:47,177 --> 00:55:48,010 WE HAD A "REMEMBER RENEE" NIGHT ONCE A MONTH 2035 00:55:48,212 --> 00:55:49,945 ONCE A MONTH I MET WITH MEDIA 2036 00:55:50,147 --> 00:55:51,180 I MET WITH MEDIA >> Reporter: YOU WANTED JUSTICE 2037 00:55:51,382 --> 00:55:52,247 >> Reporter: YOU WANTED JUSTICE FOR RENEE, AND YOU WEREN'T GONNA 2038 00:55:52,449 --> 00:55:53,849 FOR RENEE, AND YOU WEREN'T GONNA STOP UNTIL YOU ALL GOT IT. 2039 00:55:54,051 --> 00:55:55,851 STOP UNTIL YOU ALL GOT IT. >> I DID WANT JUSTICE FOR RENEE. 2040 00:55:56,053 --> 00:55:57,019 >> I DID WANT JUSTICE FOR RENEE. I DID WANT THAT. 2041 00:55:57,221 --> 00:55:58,620 I DID WANT THAT. >> Reporter: SUSAN SAMPLES 2042 00:55:58,822 --> 00:55:59,688 >> Reporter: SUSAN SAMPLES REPORTED THE STORY FOR YEARS AT 2043 00:55:59,890 --> 00:56:01,724 REPORTED THE STORY FOR YEARS AT THE NBC AFFILIATE IN 2044 00:56:01,926 --> 00:56:02,891 THE NBC AFFILIATE IN GRAND RAPIDS 2045 00:56:03,093 --> 00:56:03,926 GRAND RAPIDS >> THERE WAS OUTRAGE WHEN NO ONE 2046 00:56:04,128 --> 00:56:05,527 >> THERE WAS OUTRAGE WHEN NO ONE WAS ARRESTED 2047 00:56:05,729 --> 00:56:07,129 WAS ARRESTED AND EVERYBODY KNEW IT WAS THE 2048 00:56:07,331 --> 00:56:08,163 AND EVERYBODY KNEW IT WAS THE HUSBAND, BUT THEY COULDN'T MAKE 2049 00:56:08,365 --> 00:56:10,265 HUSBAND, BUT THEY COULDN'T MAKE THE CASE 2050 00:56:10,467 --> 00:56:11,867 THE CASE FROM A NEWS PERSPECTIVE, IT WAS 2051 00:56:12,069 --> 00:56:14,536 FROM A NEWS PERSPECTIVE, IT WAS A HUGE STORY, OF COURSE. 2052 00:56:14,738 --> 00:56:16,138 A HUGE STORY, OF COURSE. BUT AS THE YEARS WENT ON, YOU 2053 00:56:16,340 --> 00:56:17,706 BUT AS THE YEARS WENT ON, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE'S INTEREST GOES 2054 00:56:17,908 --> 00:56:19,308 KNOW, PEOPLE'S INTEREST GOES ELSEWHERE, TO SOME DEGREE, IN 2055 00:56:19,510 --> 00:56:20,376 ELSEWHERE, TO SOME DEGREE, IN THE NEWS 2056 00:56:20,578 --> 00:56:22,511 THE NEWS BUT HER FRIENDS WOULDN'T LET US 2057 00:56:22,713 --> 00:56:25,748 BUT HER FRIENDS WOULDN'T LET US FORGET IT. 2058 00:56:25,950 --> 00:56:27,683 FORGET IT. >> Reporter: AND THEY WOULDN'T 2059 00:56:27,885 --> 00:56:29,151 >> Reporter: AND THEY WOULDN'T LET INVESTIGATORS FORGET EITHER. 2060 00:56:29,353 --> 00:56:30,285 LET INVESTIGATORS FORGET EITHER. DETECTIVE JOHNSON REMEMBERS 2061 00:56:30,487 --> 00:56:33,989 DETECTIVE JOHNSON REMEMBERS HEARING WEEKLY FROM CHRIS, LIKE 2062 00:56:34,191 --> 00:56:34,523 HEARING WEEKLY FROM CHRIS, LIKE IT WAS HER JOB 2063 00:56:34,725 --> 00:56:35,557 IT WAS HER JOB >> CHRIS CRANDLE WOULD CALL YOU 2064 00:56:35,759 --> 00:56:36,625 >> CHRIS CRANDLE WOULD CALL YOU AND SAY, "HEY, WHAT'S GOIN' ON 2065 00:56:36,827 --> 00:56:37,693 AND SAY, "HEY, WHAT'S GOIN' ON WITH THE CASE? 2066 00:56:37,895 --> 00:56:38,727 WITH THE CASE? >> I JUST FELT THIS PASSION 2067 00:56:38,929 --> 00:56:39,795 >> I JUST FELT THIS PASSION INSIDE OF ME TO FIGHT. 2068 00:56:39,997 --> 00:56:42,464 INSIDE OF ME TO FIGHT. AND PEOPLE WOULD SAY TO ME, 2069 00:56:42,666 --> 00:56:44,032 AND PEOPLE WOULD SAY TO ME, "CHRIS, YOU JUST NEED TO STOP. 2070 00:56:44,234 --> 00:56:46,168 "CHRIS, YOU JUST NEED TO STOP. YOU JUST NEED TO LET THE POLICE 2071 00:56:46,370 --> 00:56:47,770 YOU JUST NEED TO LET THE POLICE HANDLE IT AND -- AND STEP BACK." 2072 00:56:47,972 --> 00:56:49,905 HANDLE IT AND -- AND STEP BACK." >> Reporter: BUT THAT SHE 2073 00:56:50,107 --> 00:56:50,939 >> Reporter: BUT THAT SHE COULDN'T DO. 2074 00:56:51,141 --> 00:56:53,041 COULDN'T DO. INSTEAD, SHE SET UP A FACEBOOK 2075 00:56:53,243 --> 00:56:54,676 INSTEAD, SHE SET UP A FACEBOOK PAGE ASKING FOR TIPS TO HELP 2076 00:56:54,878 --> 00:56:55,711 PAGE ASKING FOR TIPS TO HELP FIND RENEE'S KILLER. 2077 00:56:55,913 --> 00:56:58,347 FIND RENEE'S KILLER. >> A FACEBOOK PAGE SAYING, "WHO 2078 00:56:58,549 --> 00:56:59,948 >> A FACEBOOK PAGE SAYING, "WHO KILLED RENEE PAGEL?" 2079 00:57:00,150 --> 00:57:01,016 KILLED RENEE PAGEL?" I MEAN, SHE HAS BEEN HER OWN 2080 00:57:01,218 --> 00:57:02,251 I MEAN, SHE HAS BEEN HER OWN LITTLE PRIVATE DETECTIVE AND 2081 00:57:02,453 --> 00:57:03,118 LITTLE PRIVATE DETECTIVE AND ZEALOT, YOU KNOW, OVER THE YEARS 2082 00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:04,186 ZEALOT, YOU KNOW, OVER THE YEARS TO KEEP THE CASE ALIVE 2083 00:57:04,388 --> 00:57:05,254 TO KEEP THE CASE ALIVE >> Reporter: IN HER MIND, 2084 00:57:05,456 --> 00:57:06,321 >> Reporter: IN HER MIND, MICHAEL WAS THE ONLY SUSPECT, 2085 00:57:06,523 --> 00:57:07,389 MICHAEL WAS THE ONLY SUSPECT, AND SHE WAS FEARLESS IN CALLING 2086 00:57:07,391 --> 00:57:09,258 AND SHE WAS FEARLESS IN CALLING HIM OUT. 2087 00:57:09,460 --> 00:57:10,025 HIM OUT. >> YEAH. 2088 00:57:10,227 --> 00:57:12,161 >> YEAH. "HELLO." 2089 00:57:12,363 --> 00:57:13,762 "HELLO." ON THE WEBSITE WE CALLED HIM THE 2090 00:57:13,964 --> 00:57:16,832 ON THE WEBSITE WE CALLED HIM THE ONLY SUSPECT 2091 00:57:17,034 --> 00:57:19,101 ONLY SUSPECT I DID MULTIPLE INTERVIEWS WITH 2092 00:57:19,303 --> 00:57:20,169 I DID MULTIPLE INTERVIEWS WITH LOCAL MEDIA, MADE IT VERY CLEAR. 2093 00:57:20,371 --> 00:57:21,770 LOCAL MEDIA, MADE IT VERY CLEAR. >> Reporter: CHRIS AND OTHER 2094 00:57:21,972 --> 00:57:23,372 >> Reporter: CHRIS AND OTHER FRIENDS STARTED MAILING MICHAEL 2095 00:57:23,574 --> 00:57:24,940 FRIENDS STARTED MAILING MICHAEL HANDWRITTEN CARDS WITH VERSES 2096 00:57:25,142 --> 00:57:26,542 HANDWRITTEN CARDS WITH VERSES FROM THE BIBLE 2097 00:57:26,744 --> 00:57:28,110 FROM THE BIBLE CHRIS SAYS HE DIDN'T APPRECIATE 2098 00:57:28,312 --> 00:57:29,178 CHRIS SAYS HE DIDN'T APPRECIATE GETTING SCRIPTURE THROUGH THE 2099 00:57:29,380 --> 00:57:30,646 GETTING SCRIPTURE THROUGH THE MAIL 2100 00:57:30,848 --> 00:57:31,313 MAIL I MEAN, HE COULD SAY, "HEY, 2101 00:57:31,515 --> 00:57:33,415 I MEAN, HE COULD SAY, "HEY, YOU'RE HARASSING ME. 2102 00:57:33,417 --> 00:57:34,483 YOU'RE HARASSING ME. >> WELL, HIS FAMILY CAME -- CAME 2103 00:57:34,685 --> 00:57:36,084 >> WELL, HIS FAMILY CAME -- CAME AGAINST US 2104 00:57:36,286 --> 00:57:37,686 AGAINST US I WAS NEVER AFRAID 2105 00:57:37,888 --> 00:57:38,754 I WAS NEVER AFRAID I -- IT'S LIKE, IF YOU WANT TO 2106 00:57:38,956 --> 00:57:42,157 I -- IT'S LIKE, IF YOU WANT TO COME AFTER ME FOR HARASSING YOU 2107 00:57:42,359 --> 00:57:42,658 COME AFTER ME FOR HARASSING YOU BY SENDING YOU SCRIPTURE 2108 00:57:42,860 --> 00:57:45,294 BY SENDING YOU SCRIPTURE CARDS -- BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT, 2109 00:57:45,496 --> 00:57:46,328 CARDS -- BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT, BUDDY? 2110 00:57:46,530 --> 00:57:47,596 BUDDY? I REALLY MIGHT BE THE ONLY 2111 00:57:47,798 --> 00:57:50,833 I REALLY MIGHT BE THE ONLY PERSON ON THIS PLANET WHO REALLY 2112 00:57:51,035 --> 00:57:53,802 PERSON ON THIS PLANET WHO REALLY DOES CARE ABOUT YOUR -- WHERE 2113 00:57:54,004 --> 00:57:54,536 DOES CARE ABOUT YOUR -- WHERE YOU SPEND ETERNITY, TRULY. 2114 00:57:54,738 --> 00:57:55,604 YOU SPEND ETERNITY, TRULY. AND I AM SENDING HIM SCRIPTURE 2115 00:57:55,806 --> 00:57:56,672 AND I AM SENDING HIM SCRIPTURE CARDS SO THAT HE WILL SEE THE 2116 00:57:56,874 --> 00:57:57,739 CARDS SO THAT HE WILL SEE THE TRUTH. 2117 00:57:57,941 --> 00:57:59,308 TRUTH. >> Reporter: WHERE IS HIS 2118 00:57:59,510 --> 00:57:59,842 >> Reporter: WHERE IS HIS ETERNITY 2119 00:58:00,044 --> 00:58:00,909 ETERNITY >> RIGHT NOW, UNLESS HE COMES 2120 00:58:01,111 --> 00:58:02,511 >> RIGHT NOW, UNLESS HE COMES CLEAN, HE'S GOING TO HELL. 2121 00:58:02,713 --> 00:58:04,680 CLEAN, HE'S GOING TO HELL. THAT'S WHAT MY BIBLE SAYS, AND I 2122 00:58:04,882 --> 00:58:06,215 THAT'S WHAT MY BIBLE SAYS, AND I BELIEVE IT'S TRUE. 2123 00:58:06,417 --> 00:58:08,317 BELIEVE IT'S TRUE. >> Reporter: MICHAEL PAGEL AND 2124 00:58:08,519 --> 00:58:09,918 >> Reporter: MICHAEL PAGEL AND THE KIDS LEFT ROCKFORD, 2125 00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:11,520 THE KIDS LEFT ROCKFORD, EVENTUALLY SETTLING IN SAGINAW, 2126 00:58:11,722 --> 00:58:12,588 EVENTUALLY SETTLING IN SAGINAW, AWAY FROM PRYING EYES, SCRIPTURE 2127 00:58:12,790 --> 00:58:16,525 AWAY FROM PRYING EYES, SCRIPTURE CARDS, AND NEWS REPORTS. 2128 00:58:16,727 --> 00:58:17,926 CARDS, AND NEWS REPORTS. >> I MOVED AROUND A LOT AS A 2129 00:58:18,128 --> 00:58:19,561 >> I MOVED AROUND A LOT AS A KID, AND IT WAS ALWAYS SOMETHING 2130 00:58:19,763 --> 00:58:20,729 KID, AND IT WAS ALWAYS SOMETHING I NEVER -- IT MADE IT HARD TO 2131 00:58:20,931 --> 00:58:23,465 I NEVER -- IT MADE IT HARD TO FIND A HOME WITH THAT KIND OF 2132 00:58:23,467 --> 00:58:24,733 FIND A HOME WITH THAT KIND OF THING, YOU KNOW, OUT THERE 2133 00:58:24,935 --> 00:58:25,300 THING, YOU KNOW, OUT THERE SO, YEAH, IT TOOK A WHILE TO 2134 00:58:25,502 --> 00:58:27,903 SO, YEAH, IT TOOK A WHILE TO REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY WERE 2135 00:58:28,105 --> 00:58:28,971 REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY WERE DOING. 2136 00:58:29,173 --> 00:58:30,038 DOING. >> Reporter: AS A YOUNG 2137 00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:30,672 >> Reporter: AS A YOUNG TEENAGER, SARAH BECAME AWARE OF 2138 00:58:30,874 --> 00:58:33,408 TEENAGER, SARAH BECAME AWARE OF THE INTERNET CAMPAIGN AGAINST 2139 00:58:33,610 --> 00:58:33,642 THE INTERNET CAMPAIGN AGAINST HER DAD. 2140 00:58:33,844 --> 00:58:35,043 HER DAD. WHAT KIND OF TOLL DID IT TAKE ON 2141 00:58:35,245 --> 00:58:36,078 WHAT KIND OF TOLL DID IT TAKE ON YOU? 2142 00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:37,145 YOU? >> I MEAN, IT WAS DEFINITELY 2143 00:58:37,347 --> 00:58:38,714 >> I MEAN, IT WAS DEFINITELY DIFFICULT. 2144 00:58:38,916 --> 00:58:42,150 DIFFICULT. IT REALLY PREVENTED ME REALLY 2145 00:58:42,352 --> 00:58:42,784 IT REALLY PREVENTED ME REALLY FROM TALKING ABOUT MY MOM TO MY 2146 00:58:42,986 --> 00:58:45,087 FROM TALKING ABOUT MY MOM TO MY FRIENDS BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT 2147 00:58:45,289 --> 00:58:46,154 FRIENDS BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT ANY QUESTIONS. 2148 00:58:46,356 --> 00:58:47,189 ANY QUESTIONS. AND IF ANYONE LOOKED ANYTHING UP 2149 00:58:47,391 --> 00:58:47,756 AND IF ANYONE LOOKED ANYTHING UP ONLINE OR THEIR PARENTS DID, 2150 00:58:47,958 --> 00:58:50,092 ONLINE OR THEIR PARENTS DID, THEN IT WOULD BE MY DAD'S FACE 2151 00:58:50,294 --> 00:58:50,959 THEN IT WOULD BE MY DAD'S FACE THERE. 2152 00:58:51,161 --> 00:58:51,527 THERE. AND SO WHEN STUFF LIKE THAT 2153 00:58:51,729 --> 00:58:53,795 AND SO WHEN STUFF LIKE THAT WOULD COME OUT, IT WAS VERY 2154 00:58:53,997 --> 00:58:54,830 WOULD COME OUT, IT WAS VERY HARD 2155 00:58:55,032 --> 00:58:55,898 HARD >> Reporter: ASSISTANT 2156 00:58:56,100 --> 00:58:57,199 >> Reporter: ASSISTANT PROSECUTOR KELLEE KONCKI HAD 2157 00:58:57,401 --> 00:58:58,033 PROSECUTOR KELLEE KONCKI HAD NEVER FORGOTTEN THIS UNSOLVED 2158 00:58:58,235 --> 00:58:59,635 NEVER FORGOTTEN THIS UNSOLVED MURDER 2159 00:58:59,837 --> 00:59:00,669 MURDER >> THIS CASE, IT NEVER WENT 2160 00:59:00,871 --> 00:59:01,737 >> THIS CASE, IT NEVER WENT AWAY 2161 00:59:01,939 --> 00:59:03,338 AWAY I ALWAYS WANTED TO WORK THIS 2162 00:59:03,540 --> 00:59:04,406 I ALWAYS WANTED TO WORK THIS CASE AGAIN 2163 00:59:04,608 --> 00:59:06,008 CASE AGAIN I KNEW THERE WOULD COME A TIME 2164 00:59:06,210 --> 00:59:07,042 I KNEW THERE WOULD COME A TIME MY BOSS WAS READY A COUPLE YEARS 2165 00:59:07,244 --> 00:59:08,644 MY BOSS WAS READY A COUPLE YEARS AGO TO OPEN ONE OF THE COLD 2166 00:59:08,846 --> 00:59:11,280 AGO TO OPEN ONE OF THE COLD CASES. 2167 00:59:11,482 --> 00:59:12,881 CASES. HE ASKED ME TO LOOK AT AND 2168 00:59:13,083 --> 00:59:14,483 HE ASKED ME TO LOOK AT AND DECIDE WHICH ONE 2169 00:59:14,685 --> 00:59:16,084 DECIDE WHICH ONE AND, YOU KNOW, I JUST ALWAYS 2170 00:59:16,286 --> 00:59:17,686 AND, YOU KNOW, I JUST ALWAYS WANTED TO SOLVE PAGEL. 2171 00:59:17,888 --> 00:59:19,788 WANTED TO SOLVE PAGEL. >> Reporter: 12 YEARS AFTER HER 2172 00:59:19,990 --> 00:59:21,924 >> Reporter: 12 YEARS AFTER HER MURDER, INVESTIGATORS DUSTED OFF 2173 00:59:22,126 --> 00:59:22,991 MURDER, INVESTIGATORS DUSTED OFF BOXES FULL OF EVIDENCE AND 2174 00:59:23,193 --> 00:59:25,093 BOXES FULL OF EVIDENCE AND REPORTS. 2175 00:59:25,295 --> 00:59:26,194 REPORTS. IT WAS 2018, AND BILL MARKS WAS 2176 00:59:26,396 --> 00:59:27,796 IT WAS 2018, AND BILL MARKS WAS THE NEW LEAD DETECTIVE 2177 00:59:27,998 --> 00:59:28,830 THE NEW LEAD DETECTIVE >> WE REALLY TRIED TO START 2178 00:59:29,032 --> 00:59:29,898 >> WE REALLY TRIED TO START WITH -- FROM A FRESH 2179 00:59:30,100 --> 00:59:31,500 WITH -- FROM A FRESH PERSPECTIVE. 2180 00:59:31,702 --> 00:59:32,534 PERSPECTIVE. WE WANTED TO START FROM THE 2181 00:59:32,736 --> 00:59:34,136 WE WANTED TO START FROM THE BEGINNING AND NOT FOCUS ON ANY 2182 00:59:34,338 --> 00:59:35,203 BEGINNING AND NOT FOCUS ON ANY CERTAIN PERSON 2183 00:59:35,405 --> 00:59:36,405 CERTAIN PERSON WE TOOK A STEP BACK. 2184 00:59:36,607 --> 00:59:37,839 WE TOOK A STEP BACK. WE LOOKED AT EVERY SINGLE PERSON 2185 00:59:38,041 --> 00:59:39,975 WE LOOKED AT EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO WAS INVOLVED IN THE CASE, 2186 00:59:40,177 --> 00:59:41,143 WHO WAS INVOLVED IN THE CASE, EVERYBODY THAT WAS NAMED, AND 2187 00:59:41,345 --> 00:59:42,077 EVERYBODY THAT WAS NAMED, AND REALLY TRIED TO WORK THROUGH 2188 00:59:42,279 --> 00:59:43,679 REALLY TRIED TO WORK THROUGH EACH ONE OF THEM INDIVIDUALLY 2189 00:59:43,881 --> 00:59:44,746 EACH ONE OF THEM INDIVIDUALLY AND SEE IF THEY COULD POSSIBLY 2190 00:59:44,948 --> 00:59:46,315 AND SEE IF THEY COULD POSSIBLY BE A SUSPECT 2191 00:59:46,517 --> 00:59:47,382 BE A SUSPECT >> Reporter: ANYTHING WITH THE 2192 00:59:47,584 --> 00:59:48,984 >> Reporter: ANYTHING WITH THE EVIDENCE THAT JUMPED OUT AT YOU, 2193 00:59:49,186 --> 00:59:50,552 EVIDENCE THAT JUMPED OUT AT YOU, THAT MAYBE HAD BEEN MISSED 2194 00:59:50,754 --> 00:59:51,620 THAT MAYBE HAD BEEN MISSED >> NOTHING INITIALLY 2195 00:59:51,822 --> 00:59:53,221 >> NOTHING INITIALLY >> Reporter: BUT THEN HE SPOTTED 2196 00:59:53,423 --> 00:59:54,823 >> Reporter: BUT THEN HE SPOTTED SOMETHING THAT WARRANTED ANOTHER 2197 00:59:55,025 --> 00:59:55,891 SOMETHING THAT WARRANTED ANOTHER LOOK 2198 00:59:56,093 --> 00:59:57,459 LOOK >> AS WE WORKED THROUGH IT, WE 2199 00:59:57,661 --> 00:59:59,061 >> AS WE WORKED THROUGH IT, WE DID FIND THE ORANGE FLASHLIGHT 2200 00:59:59,263 --> 01:00:01,163 DID FIND THE ORANGE FLASHLIGHT THAT WAS THOUGHT TO HAVE BEEN 2201 01:00:01,365 --> 01:00:02,764 THAT WAS THOUGHT TO HAVE BEEN TESTED IN THE PAST AND WASN'T. 2202 01:00:02,966 --> 01:00:03,832 TESTED IN THE PAST AND WASN'T. >> Reporter: THE ORANGE 2203 01:00:04,034 --> 01:00:05,934 >> Reporter: THE ORANGE FLASHLIGHT INVESTIGATORS 2204 01:00:06,136 --> 01:00:07,836 FLASHLIGHT INVESTIGATORS DISCOVERED BEHIND THE HOUSE THE 2205 01:00:08,038 --> 01:00:08,604 DISCOVERED BEHIND THE HOUSE THE MORNING AFTER THE MURDER 2206 01:00:08,806 --> 01:00:10,205 MORNING AFTER THE MURDER IT WOULD TAKE EAGLE-EYED 2207 01:00:10,407 --> 01:00:11,273 IT WOULD TAKE EAGLE-EYED ASSISTANT PROSECUTOR DAN HELMER 2208 01:00:11,475 --> 01:00:12,841 ASSISTANT PROSECUTOR DAN HELMER TO MAKE AN INTERESTING 2209 01:00:13,043 --> 01:00:13,909 TO MAKE AN INTERESTING CONNECTION 2210 01:00:14,111 --> 01:00:16,044 CONNECTION GET THIS 2211 01:00:16,246 --> 01:00:17,613 GET THIS IN AN OLD EVIDENCE PHOTO OF 2212 01:00:17,815 --> 01:00:19,214 IN AN OLD EVIDENCE PHOTO OF MICHAEL PAGEL TAKEN AT HIS 2213 01:00:19,416 --> 01:00:20,282 MICHAEL PAGEL TAKEN AT HIS HOUSE, HELMER NOTICED A VERY 2214 01:00:20,484 --> 01:00:21,850 HOUSE, HELMER NOTICED A VERY SIMILAR FLASHLIGHT IN THE 2215 01:00:22,052 --> 01:00:22,918 SIMILAR FLASHLIGHT IN THE BACKGROUND 2216 01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:24,519 BACKGROUND BUT THIS ONE WAS BLUE. 2217 01:00:24,721 --> 01:00:25,554 BUT THIS ONE WAS BLUE. YOU DID A LITTLE INVESTIGATING, 2218 01:00:25,756 --> 01:00:26,622 YOU DID A LITTLE INVESTIGATING, AND IT TURNS OUT THESE 2219 01:00:26,824 --> 01:00:29,257 AND IT TURNS OUT THESE FLASHLIGHTS HAVE SOMETHING IN 2220 01:00:29,459 --> 01:00:30,859 FLASHLIGHTS HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON 2221 01:00:31,061 --> 01:00:32,461 COMMON >> THEY CAME IN A TWO PACK THAT 2222 01:00:32,663 --> 01:00:34,062 >> THEY CAME IN A TWO PACK THAT YEAR, ONE OF WHICH WAS AN ORANGE 2223 01:00:34,264 --> 01:00:35,130 YEAR, ONE OF WHICH WAS AN ORANGE AND BLUE COMBINATION, WHICH IS 2224 01:00:35,332 --> 01:00:36,164 AND BLUE COMBINATION, WHICH IS THE COLORS WE HAD. 2225 01:00:36,366 --> 01:00:37,232 THE COLORS WE HAD. AND THE BATTERIES WERE ACTUALLY 2226 01:00:37,434 --> 01:00:38,667 AND THE BATTERIES WERE ACTUALLY FROM THE SAME LOT NUMBER 2227 01:00:38,869 --> 01:00:40,235 FROM THE SAME LOT NUMBER >> Reporter: THIS IS THE SMOKING 2228 01:00:40,437 --> 01:00:40,936 >> Reporter: THIS IS THE SMOKING FLASHLIGHT 2229 01:00:41,138 --> 01:00:42,004 FLASHLIGHT >> YEAH. 2230 01:00:42,206 --> 01:00:43,071 >> YEAH. KIND OF IS 2231 01:00:43,273 --> 01:00:44,139 KIND OF IS >> YEAH. 2232 01:00:44,341 --> 01:00:48,276 >> YEAH. WHAT WAS IMPORTANT FOR US -- IT 2233 01:00:48,478 --> 01:00:49,811 WHAT WAS IMPORTANT FOR US -- IT PUTS MIKE THERE EITHER THAT 2234 01:00:50,013 --> 01:00:50,379 PUTS MIKE THERE EITHER THAT NIGHT OR RIGHT AROUND THERE. 2235 01:00:50,581 --> 01:00:51,413 NIGHT OR RIGHT AROUND THERE. AND HE HAD NO REASON TO BE AT 2236 01:00:51,615 --> 01:00:52,481 AND HE HAD NO REASON TO BE AT THAT HOME. 2237 01:00:52,683 --> 01:00:53,548 THAT HOME. NO REASON. 2238 01:00:53,750 --> 01:00:54,616 NO REASON. >> Reporter: IT WAS AN 2239 01:00:54,818 --> 01:00:55,651 >> Reporter: IT WAS AN INTERESTING PIECE OF THE PUZZLE. 2240 01:00:55,853 --> 01:00:57,252 INTERESTING PIECE OF THE PUZZLE. BUT STILL, NOT ENOUGH FOR AN 2241 01:00:57,454 --> 01:00:58,320 BUT STILL, NOT ENOUGH FOR AN ARREST 2242 01:00:58,522 --> 01:01:00,222 ARREST WITH HER ONLINE POSTS, CHRIS WAS 2243 01:01:00,424 --> 01:01:01,490 WITH HER ONLINE POSTS, CHRIS WAS STILL ASKING, "WHO KILLED 2244 01:01:01,692 --> 01:01:02,557 STILL ASKING, "WHO KILLED RENEE? 2245 01:01:02,759 --> 01:01:04,660 RENEE? AND ONE DAY, OUT OF THE BLUE, 2246 01:01:04,862 --> 01:01:05,293 AND ONE DAY, OUT OF THE BLUE, SOMEONE WANTED TO TALK TO HER ON 2247 01:01:05,495 --> 01:01:06,294 SOMEONE WANTED TO TALK TO HER ON FACEBOOK 2248 01:01:06,496 --> 01:01:07,329 FACEBOOK IT WAS MICHAEL'S BROTHER 2249 01:01:07,531 --> 01:01:08,930 IT WAS MICHAEL'S BROTHER >> BO. 2250 01:01:09,132 --> 01:01:09,965 >> BO. HE SENT ME A FRIEND REQUEST. 2251 01:01:10,167 --> 01:01:11,600 HE SENT ME A FRIEND REQUEST. AND I SAW IT AND I JUST SORT OF 2252 01:01:11,802 --> 01:01:12,634 AND I SAW IT AND I JUST SORT OF FREAKED OUT. 2253 01:01:12,836 --> 01:01:13,702 FREAKED OUT. I DIDN'T RESPOND TO IT 2254 01:01:13,904 --> 01:01:15,837 I DIDN'T RESPOND TO IT SLEPT ON IT. 2255 01:01:16,039 --> 01:01:17,406 SLEPT ON IT. THE NEXT DAY, HE'S REACHING OUT 2256 01:01:17,608 --> 01:01:18,473 THE NEXT DAY, HE'S REACHING OUT TO ME AGAIN. 2257 01:01:18,675 --> 01:01:20,075 TO ME AGAIN. >> Reporter: COULD IT BE THAT BO 2258 01:01:20,277 --> 01:01:23,045 >> Reporter: COULD IT BE THAT BO HAD INFORMATION ABOUT THE MURDER 2259 01:01:23,247 --> 01:01:24,846 HAD INFORMATION ABOUT THE MURDER OF RENEE AFTER ALL 2260 01:01:25,048 --> 01:01:26,982 OF RENEE AFTER ALL >>> COMING UP -- 2261 01:01:27,184 --> 01:01:28,050 >>> COMING UP -- >> Reporter: SO BO JUST CRACKS 2262 01:01:28,252 --> 01:01:30,152 >> Reporter: SO BO JUST CRACKS THIS CASE WIDE OPEN. 2263 01:01:30,354 --> 01:01:32,854 THIS CASE WIDE OPEN. >> YEAH, I HAD TO HOLD MYSELF 2264 01:01:33,056 --> 01:01:35,424 >> YEAH, I HAD TO HOLD MYSELF DOWN 2265 01:01:35,626 --> 01:01:37,592 DOWN >> THERE WAS LIKE A RAG, AND 2266 01:01:37,794 --> 01:01:38,160 >> THERE WAS LIKE A RAG, AND THERE WAS A KNIFE IN THE RAG 2267 01:01:38,362 --> 01:01:59,381 THERE WAS A KNIFE IN THE RAG >> Reporter: THA 2268 01:01:59,583 --> 01:02:00,716 >> Reporter: THA AFTER RENEE PAGEL'S MURDER, 2269 01:02:00,918 --> 01:02:01,783 AFTER RENEE PAGEL'S MURDER, DETECTIVES WERE TAKING ANOTHER 2270 01:02:01,985 --> 01:02:02,851 DETECTIVES WERE TAKING ANOTHER CRACK AT HER COLD CASE 2271 01:02:03,053 --> 01:02:03,885 CRACK AT HER COLD CASE AT THE SAME TIME, HER CLOSE 2272 01:02:04,087 --> 01:02:04,953 AT THE SAME TIME, HER CLOSE FRIEND CHRIS GOT A MESSAGE ON 2273 01:02:05,155 --> 01:02:06,021 FRIEND CHRIS GOT A MESSAGE ON FACEBOOK FROM MICHAEL'S BROTHER, 2274 01:02:06,223 --> 01:02:08,924 FACEBOOK FROM MICHAEL'S BROTHER, BO 2275 01:02:09,126 --> 01:02:10,926 BO CHRIS HADN'T MET THE GUY, BUT 2276 01:02:11,128 --> 01:02:13,361 CHRIS HADN'T MET THE GUY, BUT SHE KNEW HE AND RENEE NEVER GOT 2277 01:02:13,563 --> 01:02:13,895 SHE KNEW HE AND RENEE NEVER GOT ALONG AND THAT BO HAD BEEN 2278 01:02:14,097 --> 01:02:16,331 ALONG AND THAT BO HAD BEEN LOOKED AT AS A POTENTIAL 2279 01:02:16,533 --> 01:02:16,565 LOOKED AT AS A POTENTIAL SUSPECT. 2280 01:02:16,767 --> 01:02:17,399 SUSPECT. NOW, OUT OF THE BLUE, HE WANTED 2281 01:02:17,601 --> 01:02:18,467 NOW, OUT OF THE BLUE, HE WANTED TO TALK. 2282 01:02:18,669 --> 01:02:20,068 TO TALK. >> THIS IS BO. 2283 01:02:20,270 --> 01:02:21,136 >> THIS IS BO. WHO'S THIS 2284 01:02:21,338 --> 01:02:22,170 WHO'S THIS >> HI, THIS IS CHRIS CRANDLE 2285 01:02:22,372 --> 01:02:26,308 >> HI, THIS IS CHRIS CRANDLE >> Reporter: UNBEKNOWNST TO BO, 2286 01:02:26,510 --> 01:02:28,443 >> Reporter: UNBEKNOWNST TO BO, POLICE ASKED CHRIS TO RECORD THE 2287 01:02:28,645 --> 01:02:29,478 POLICE ASKED CHRIS TO RECORD THE CONVERSATION, AND SHE SURE DID 2288 01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:30,112 CONVERSATION, AND SHE SURE DID RIGHT FROM THE START, HE MADE IT 2289 01:02:30,314 --> 01:02:31,680 RIGHT FROM THE START, HE MADE IT CLEAR HE WAS CALLING TO TALK 2290 01:02:31,882 --> 01:02:32,147 CLEAR HE WAS CALLING TO TALK ABOUT HIS BROTHER. 2291 01:02:32,349 --> 01:02:33,749 ABOUT HIS BROTHER. >> FIRST OFF I WANT TO 2292 01:02:33,951 --> 01:02:35,016 >> FIRST OFF I WANT TO APOLOGIZE. 2293 01:02:35,218 --> 01:02:35,884 APOLOGIZE. YOU GUYS ARE ABSOLUTELY 100% 2294 01:02:36,086 --> 01:02:37,219 YOU GUYS ARE ABSOLUTELY 100% RIGHT ABOUT MIKE, AND HOW HE IS. 2295 01:02:37,421 --> 01:02:38,520 RIGHT ABOUT MIKE, AND HOW HE IS. >> OH. 2296 01:02:38,722 --> 01:02:40,122 >> OH. >> HE FOOLED US ALL. 2297 01:02:40,324 --> 01:02:40,822 >> HE FOOLED US ALL. >> OH. 2298 01:02:41,024 --> 01:02:41,690 >> OH. >> AND HE'S A LIAR 2299 01:02:41,892 --> 01:02:42,758 >> AND HE'S A LIAR >> Reporter: WHAT DID HE SAY TO 2300 01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:43,825 >> Reporter: WHAT DID HE SAY TO YOU? 2301 01:02:44,027 --> 01:02:45,393 YOU? >> WELL, HE JUST SAID MIKE WAS 2302 01:02:45,595 --> 01:02:46,461 >> WELL, HE JUST SAID MIKE WAS STARTING TO LOSE IT. 2303 01:02:46,663 --> 01:02:47,529 STARTING TO LOSE IT. >> Reporter: CHRIS QUICKLY CUT 2304 01:02:47,731 --> 01:02:48,597 >> Reporter: CHRIS QUICKLY CUT TO THE CHASE 2305 01:02:48,799 --> 01:02:49,631 TO THE CHASE >> I SAID, "SO WHY ARE YOU 2306 01:02:49,833 --> 01:02:50,699 >> I SAID, "SO WHY ARE YOU CALLING ME?" 2307 01:02:50,901 --> 01:02:52,834 CALLING ME?" "WELL, SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE 2308 01:02:53,036 --> 01:02:55,470 "WELL, SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE." 2309 01:02:55,672 --> 01:02:57,606 DONE." AND I SAID, "WELL, I -- I AGREE. 2310 01:02:57,808 --> 01:02:58,673 AND I SAID, "WELL, I -- I AGREE. I MEAN, YOU KNOW WHAT I BELIEVE. 2311 01:02:58,875 --> 01:03:02,144 I MEAN, YOU KNOW WHAT I BELIEVE. >> DO YOU BELIEVE HE KILLED 2312 01:03:02,346 --> 01:03:03,979 >> DO YOU BELIEVE HE KILLED RENEE? 2313 01:03:04,181 --> 01:03:06,782 RENEE? >> I -- I DON'T KNOW 2314 01:03:06,984 --> 01:03:07,415 >> I -- I DON'T KNOW I -- I -- I -- I WILL -- I DON'T 2315 01:03:07,617 --> 01:03:09,017 I -- I -- I -- I WILL -- I DON'T KNOW FOR CERTAIN, BUT I WILL 2316 01:03:09,219 --> 01:03:11,686 KNOW FOR CERTAIN, BUT I WILL TELL YOU THIS. 2317 01:03:11,888 --> 01:03:13,288 TELL YOU THIS. I WOULD NOT DEFEND HIM NOW 2318 01:03:13,490 --> 01:03:15,390 I WOULD NOT DEFEND HIM NOW >> Reporter: BO SAID HIS BROTHER 2319 01:03:15,592 --> 01:03:18,560 >> Reporter: BO SAID HIS BROTHER MICHAEL HAD TURNED ON HIM. 2320 01:03:18,762 --> 01:03:20,695 MICHAEL HAD TURNED ON HIM. >> FOR WHATEVER REASON IN HIS 2321 01:03:20,897 --> 01:03:24,399 >> FOR WHATEVER REASON IN HIS DRUNK, WARPED MIND, HE THINKS I 2322 01:03:24,601 --> 01:03:26,001 DRUNK, WARPED MIND, HE THINKS I AM OUT TO GET HIM. 2323 01:03:26,203 --> 01:03:27,602 AM OUT TO GET HIM. AND HE TELLS EVERYBODY THIS, AND 2324 01:03:27,804 --> 01:03:29,871 AND HE TELLS EVERYBODY THIS, AND HE CARRIES A LOADED GUN ON HIM 2325 01:03:30,073 --> 01:03:30,772 HE CARRIES A LOADED GUN ON HIM ALL THE TIME 2326 01:03:30,974 --> 01:03:32,374 ALL THE TIME >> Reporter: CHRIS STEERED THE 2327 01:03:32,576 --> 01:03:33,975 >> Reporter: CHRIS STEERED THE CONVERSATION BACK TO THE 2328 01:03:34,177 --> 01:03:35,043 CONVERSATION BACK TO THE INFORMATION SHE NEEDED 2329 01:03:35,245 --> 01:03:37,145 INFORMATION SHE NEEDED >> WHO DO YOU THINK KILLED 2330 01:03:37,347 --> 01:03:38,413 >> WHO DO YOU THINK KILLED RENEE? 2331 01:03:38,615 --> 01:03:39,281 RENEE? >> I GOT NO CLUE, TO TELL YOU 2332 01:03:39,483 --> 01:03:40,582 >> I GOT NO CLUE, TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH. 2333 01:03:40,784 --> 01:03:41,416 THE TRUTH. I COULDN'T TELL YA 2334 01:03:41,618 --> 01:03:42,851 I COULDN'T TELL YA BUT -- 2335 01:03:43,053 --> 01:03:43,552 BUT -- >> DO YOU THINK MIKE DID IT? 2336 01:03:43,754 --> 01:03:44,586 >> DO YOU THINK MIKE DID IT? >> DO I THINK MIKE DID IT? 2337 01:03:44,788 --> 01:03:48,056 >> DO I THINK MIKE DID IT? >> YEAH. 2338 01:03:48,258 --> 01:03:48,423 >> YEAH. >> I DON'T KNOW. 2339 01:03:48,625 --> 01:03:50,559 >> I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T -- I -- YOU KNOW, I 2340 01:03:50,761 --> 01:03:51,660 I DON'T -- I -- YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW 2341 01:03:51,862 --> 01:03:52,694 DON'T KNOW I DON'T THINK SO 2342 01:03:52,896 --> 01:03:54,896 I DON'T THINK SO I DON'T THINK HE WOULD HAVE 2343 01:03:55,098 --> 01:03:55,897 I DON'T THINK HE WOULD HAVE THE -- I DON'T -- I DON'T THINK 2344 01:03:56,099 --> 01:03:57,499 THE -- I DON'T -- I DON'T THINK HE WOULD HAVE THE GUTS TO DO IT. 2345 01:03:57,701 --> 01:03:59,100 HE WOULD HAVE THE GUTS TO DO IT. THAT'S STILL GOOD QUESTION 2346 01:03:59,302 --> 01:04:00,669 THAT'S STILL GOOD QUESTION >> Reporter: BO SOUNDED VERY 2347 01:04:00,871 --> 01:04:01,736 >> Reporter: BO SOUNDED VERY MUCH AFRAID OF HIS BROTHER 2348 01:04:01,938 --> 01:04:03,338 MUCH AFRAID OF HIS BROTHER >> MIKE HAS GOT TO BE STOPPED. 2349 01:04:03,540 --> 01:04:05,440 >> MIKE HAS GOT TO BE STOPPED. I AM GOING TO BE HIS NEXT 2350 01:04:05,642 --> 01:04:07,576 I AM GOING TO BE HIS NEXT VICTIM 2351 01:04:07,778 --> 01:04:09,678 VICTIM HE -- HE IS GOING TO KILL ME AT 2352 01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:11,813 HE -- HE IS GOING TO KILL ME AT SOME POINT 2353 01:04:11,815 --> 01:04:12,314 SOME POINT >> Reporter: NEXT VICTIM 2354 01:04:12,516 --> 01:04:15,684 >> Reporter: NEXT VICTIM BO WAS ALL OVER THE PLACE. 2355 01:04:15,886 --> 01:04:17,485 BO WAS ALL OVER THE PLACE. DID HE KNOW SOMETHING OR NOT 2356 01:04:17,687 --> 01:04:19,588 DID HE KNOW SOMETHING OR NOT >> "NEXT VICTIM" IS -- IT'S A 2357 01:04:19,790 --> 01:04:20,655 >> "NEXT VICTIM" IS -- IT'S A BIG -- IT'S A BIG STATEMENT. 2358 01:04:20,857 --> 01:04:21,823 BIG -- IT'S A BIG STATEMENT. >> Reporter: ONCE INVESTIGATORS 2359 01:04:21,825 --> 01:04:22,791 >> Reporter: ONCE INVESTIGATORS PLAYED THE TAPE, THEY WANTED TO 2360 01:04:22,993 --> 01:04:24,359 PLAYED THE TAPE, THEY WANTED TO TALK TO HIM UNDER OATH 2361 01:04:24,561 --> 01:04:25,961 TALK TO HIM UNDER OATH PROSECUTORS SENT HIM AN 2362 01:04:26,163 --> 01:04:27,562 PROSECUTORS SENT HIM AN INVESTIGATIVE SUBPOENA 2363 01:04:27,764 --> 01:04:29,164 INVESTIGATIVE SUBPOENA >> AT ANY TIME PRIOR TO THE 2364 01:04:29,366 --> 01:04:30,198 >> AT ANY TIME PRIOR TO THE MURDER, LET'S START WITH THAT, 2365 01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:33,168 MURDER, LET'S START WITH THAT, DID MIKE EVER SAY OR DO ANYTHING 2366 01:04:33,370 --> 01:04:34,903 DID MIKE EVER SAY OR DO ANYTHING TO INDICATE THAT HE WANTED TO 2367 01:04:35,105 --> 01:04:37,038 TO INDICATE THAT HE WANTED TO KILL HER, WANTED TO HURT HER 2368 01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:37,539 KILL HER, WANTED TO HURT HER >> I DON'T THINK SO. 2369 01:04:37,741 --> 01:04:39,674 >> I DON'T THINK SO. I -- I DON'T -- REM -- I --I 2370 01:04:39,876 --> 01:04:40,208 I -- I DON'T -- REM -- I --I JUST - 2371 01:04:40,410 --> 01:04:42,944 JUST - >> YOU WOULD REMEMBER THAT 2372 01:04:43,146 --> 01:04:46,615 >> YOU WOULD REMEMBER THAT MR. PAGEL. 2373 01:04:46,817 --> 01:04:47,249 MR. PAGEL. >> YEAH, I -- I -- I'M TRYING TO 2374 01:04:47,451 --> 01:04:48,850 >> YEAH, I -- I -- I'M TRYING TO THINK. 2375 01:04:49,052 --> 01:04:49,684 THINK. I JUST DON'T -- I JUST DON'T 2376 01:04:49,886 --> 01:04:52,654 I JUST DON'T -- I JUST DON'T TALK IN THOSE CONVERSATIONS, OR 2377 01:04:52,856 --> 01:04:53,922 TALK IN THOSE CONVERSATIONS, OR I DON'T -- 2378 01:04:54,124 --> 01:04:54,456 I DON'T -- >> WHAT DOES THAT MEAN 2379 01:04:54,658 --> 01:04:56,057 >> WHAT DOES THAT MEAN >> I -- I DUN -- I JUST TALK 2380 01:04:56,259 --> 01:04:59,327 >> I -- I DUN -- I JUST TALK ABOUT OTHER STUFF -- 2381 01:04:59,529 --> 01:04:59,861 ABOUT OTHER STUFF -- >> THE BODY LANGUAGE JUST 2382 01:04:59,863 --> 01:05:02,197 >> THE BODY LANGUAGE JUST WASN'T SAYING THE SAME THINGS 2383 01:05:02,399 --> 01:05:03,265 WASN'T SAYING THE SAME THINGS THAT HIS MOUTH WAS SAYING. 2384 01:05:03,467 --> 01:05:04,666 THAT HIS MOUTH WAS SAYING. IT APPEARED AS IF HE HAD MORE TO 2385 01:05:04,868 --> 01:05:05,400 IT APPEARED AS IF HE HAD MORE TO TALK ABOUT 2386 01:05:05,602 --> 01:05:06,434 TALK ABOUT >> Reporter: PROSECUTORS SENT 2387 01:05:06,636 --> 01:05:07,535 >> Reporter: PROSECUTORS SENT HIM HOME, AND TWO WEEKS LATER 2388 01:05:07,737 --> 01:05:11,606 HIM HOME, AND TWO WEEKS LATER ASKED HIM TO COME BACK 2389 01:05:11,808 --> 01:05:13,375 ASKED HIM TO COME BACK BO COMES IN FOR A SECOND 2390 01:05:13,577 --> 01:05:14,910 BO COMES IN FOR A SECOND INTERVIEW AND JUST CRACKS THIS 2391 01:05:15,112 --> 01:05:17,045 INTERVIEW AND JUST CRACKS THIS CASE WIDE OPEN LIKE THE GRAND 2392 01:05:17,247 --> 01:05:17,545 CASE WIDE OPEN LIKE THE GRAND CANYON 2393 01:05:17,747 --> 01:05:18,613 CANYON >> YEAH. 2394 01:05:18,815 --> 01:05:19,681 >> YEAH. I -- I HAD TO HOLD MYSELF DOWN 2395 01:05:19,883 --> 01:05:20,749 I -- I HAD TO HOLD MYSELF DOWN LIKE, NOT GET TOO EXCITED. 2396 01:05:20,951 --> 01:05:22,350 LIKE, NOT GET TOO EXCITED. >> Reporter: PROSECUTORS GRANTED 2397 01:05:22,552 --> 01:05:24,052 >> Reporter: PROSECUTORS GRANTED BO IMMUNITY IN EXCHANGE FOR HIS 2398 01:05:24,254 --> 01:05:24,486 BO IMMUNITY IN EXCHANGE FOR HIS TESTIMONY. 2399 01:05:24,688 --> 01:05:26,054 TESTIMONY. AND THIS TIME HE HAD A STORY TO 2400 01:05:26,256 --> 01:05:27,122 AND THIS TIME HE HAD A STORY TO TELL 2401 01:05:27,324 --> 01:05:28,723 TELL WITH AN AUDIO RECORDER ROLLING, 2402 01:05:28,925 --> 01:05:29,891 WITH AN AUDIO RECORDER ROLLING, HE REMEMBERED A DAY BACK IN 2403 01:05:29,893 --> 01:05:31,359 HE REMEMBERED A DAY BACK IN AUGUST 2011. 2404 01:05:31,561 --> 01:05:33,261 AUGUST 2011. IT WAS EXACTLY FIVE YEARS AFTER 2405 01:05:33,463 --> 01:05:34,029 IT WAS EXACTLY FIVE YEARS AFTER RENEE'S MURDER 2406 01:05:34,231 --> 01:05:35,063 RENEE'S MURDER >> HE HAD COME TO MY MOM'S 2407 01:05:35,265 --> 01:05:36,665 >> HE HAD COME TO MY MOM'S AND -- 2408 01:05:36,867 --> 01:05:38,266 AND -- >> IN SAGINAW? 2409 01:05:38,468 --> 01:05:42,804 >> IN SAGINAW? >> IN SAGINAW, YES 2410 01:05:43,006 --> 01:05:47,409 >> IN SAGINAW, YES AND HE HAD SAID, "LET'S GO LOOK 2411 01:05:47,611 --> 01:05:48,476 AND HE HAD SAID, "LET'S GO LOOK FOR SOME BIG DEER AND GET A, UH, 2412 01:05:48,678 --> 01:05:51,012 FOR SOME BIG DEER AND GET A, UH, SIX-PACK OF SNACKS," WHICH HE 2413 01:05:51,214 --> 01:05:51,680 SIX-PACK OF SNACKS," WHICH HE WAS REFERRING TO BEER. 2414 01:05:51,882 --> 01:05:52,747 WAS REFERRING TO BEER. >> Reporter: A COUPLE OF BEERS 2415 01:05:52,949 --> 01:05:54,349 >> Reporter: A COUPLE OF BEERS IN, MICHAEL STARTED TALKING 2416 01:05:54,551 --> 01:05:55,517 IN, MICHAEL STARTED TALKING ABOUT HIS MARRIAGE TO RENEE, AND 2417 01:05:55,719 --> 01:05:56,451 ABOUT HIS MARRIAGE TO RENEE, AND HOW IT HAD GONE BAD. 2418 01:05:56,653 --> 01:05:58,453 HOW IT HAD GONE BAD. THEY CAME TO A BRIDGE, AND 2419 01:05:58,655 --> 01:05:59,654 THEY CAME TO A BRIDGE, AND MICHAEL TOLD BO TO PULL OVER 2420 01:05:59,856 --> 01:06:01,256 MICHAEL TOLD BO TO PULL OVER >> WHICH IS NOT OUT OF THE 2421 01:06:01,458 --> 01:06:02,857 >> WHICH IS NOT OUT OF THE ORDINARY CAUSE WE WOULD 2422 01:06:03,059 --> 01:06:06,628 ORDINARY CAUSE WE WOULD TYPICALLY STOP ON THE BRIDGE 2423 01:06:06,830 --> 01:06:08,630 TYPICALLY STOP ON THE BRIDGE HE HAD A SMALL CASE OR BAG OR 2424 01:06:08,832 --> 01:06:12,934 HE HAD A SMALL CASE OR BAG OR SOMETHING WITH HIM, AND HE 2425 01:06:13,136 --> 01:06:16,371 SOMETHING WITH HIM, AND HE OPENED UP THE CASE 2426 01:06:16,573 --> 01:06:18,907 OPENED UP THE CASE AND THERE WAS LIKE A RAG OR A 2427 01:06:19,109 --> 01:06:20,508 AND THERE WAS LIKE A RAG OR A T-SHIRT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT 2428 01:06:20,710 --> 01:06:23,311 T-SHIRT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND HE UNWRAPPED IT, AND THERE 2429 01:06:23,513 --> 01:06:24,379 AND HE UNWRAPPED IT, AND THERE WAS A KNIFE IN THE RAG 2430 01:06:24,581 --> 01:06:25,447 WAS A KNIFE IN THE RAG >> Reporter: AND RIGHT THEN, 2431 01:06:25,649 --> 01:06:27,415 >> Reporter: AND RIGHT THEN, HOLDING THE KNIFE IN HIS HAND, 2432 01:06:27,617 --> 01:06:28,016 HOLDING THE KNIFE IN HIS HAND, BO SAID MICHAEL REVEALED WHAT 2433 01:06:28,218 --> 01:06:29,150 BO SAID MICHAEL REVEALED WHAT HE'D DONE. 2434 01:06:29,352 --> 01:06:30,752 HE'D DONE. >> HE SAID TO ME, "THIS IS HOW I 2435 01:06:30,954 --> 01:06:32,354 >> HE SAID TO ME, "THIS IS HOW I FINALIZED THE DIVORCE. 2436 01:06:32,556 --> 01:06:33,421 FINALIZED THE DIVORCE. >> Reporter: THERE WAS NO DOUBT 2437 01:06:33,623 --> 01:06:34,990 >> Reporter: THERE WAS NO DOUBT IN BO'S MIND WHAT HE MEANT 2438 01:06:35,192 --> 01:06:38,793 IN BO'S MIND WHAT HE MEANT HE SAID IT WAS CLEAR MICHAEL HAD 2439 01:06:38,995 --> 01:06:39,227 HE SAID IT WAS CLEAR MICHAEL HAD KILLED RENEE 2440 01:06:39,429 --> 01:06:42,731 KILLED RENEE >> HE STARTED GOING ON ABOUT, 2441 01:06:42,933 --> 01:06:44,632 >> HE STARTED GOING ON ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SHE HAD IT COMING TO 2442 01:06:44,834 --> 01:06:46,768 YOU KNOW, SHE HAD IT COMING TO HER, THAT ALL SHE HAD TO DO WAS 2443 01:06:46,970 --> 01:06:48,837 HER, THAT ALL SHE HAD TO DO WAS PAY HIM WHAT HE WAS ASKING FOR 2444 01:06:49,039 --> 01:06:50,739 PAY HIM WHAT HE WAS ASKING FOR AS FAR AS ALIMONY OR CHILD 2445 01:06:50,941 --> 01:06:52,207 AS FAR AS ALIMONY OR CHILD SUPPORT, AND GIVE HIM THE HOUSE 2446 01:06:52,409 --> 01:06:57,579 SUPPORT, AND GIVE HIM THE HOUSE AND WHATEVER -- WHATEVER ELSE HE 2447 01:06:57,781 --> 01:06:58,613 AND WHATEVER -- WHATEVER ELSE HE FELT HE WAS ENTITLED TO. 2448 01:06:58,815 --> 01:07:00,915 FELT HE WAS ENTITLED TO. THAT'S ALL SHE HAD TO DO, AND 2449 01:07:01,117 --> 01:07:01,983 THAT'S ALL SHE HAD TO DO, AND SHE WOULDN'T DO IT 2450 01:07:01,985 --> 01:07:03,585 SHE WOULDN'T DO IT AND, SO HE SAID HE -- HE 2451 01:07:03,787 --> 01:07:05,153 AND, SO HE SAID HE -- HE FINALIZED THE DIVORCE. 2452 01:07:05,355 --> 01:07:06,221 FINALIZED THE DIVORCE. >> Reporter: THAT IS ONE 2453 01:07:06,423 --> 01:07:08,890 >> Reporter: THAT IS ONE POWERFUL SECRET HE WAS KEEPING 2454 01:07:09,092 --> 01:07:09,424 POWERFUL SECRET HE WAS KEEPING >> ABSOLUTELY. 2455 01:07:09,626 --> 01:07:12,794 >> ABSOLUTELY. >> Reporter: STILL THERE WAS 2456 01:07:12,996 --> 01:07:15,030 >> Reporter: STILL THERE WAS MORE TO BO'S STORY 2457 01:07:15,232 --> 01:07:17,699 MORE TO BO'S STORY >> SO THEN WE'RE ARGUING 2458 01:07:17,901 --> 01:07:19,768 >> SO THEN WE'RE ARGUING I MEAN, THIS IS JUST MORE THAN 2459 01:07:19,970 --> 01:07:22,170 I MEAN, THIS IS JUST MORE THAN I'M READY FOR, YOU KNOW. 2460 01:07:22,372 --> 01:07:23,605 I'M READY FOR, YOU KNOW. AND THEN -- THEN HE TAKES THE 2461 01:07:23,807 --> 01:07:26,408 AND THEN -- THEN HE TAKES THE KNIFE, AND HE THROWS THE KNIFE 2462 01:07:26,610 --> 01:07:27,475 KNIFE, AND HE THROWS THE KNIFE IN THE CRICK 2463 01:07:27,677 --> 01:07:29,077 IN THE CRICK >> Reporter: ONCE THE MURDER 2464 01:07:29,279 --> 01:07:30,645 >> Reporter: ONCE THE MURDER WEAPON DISAPPEARED IN THE CREEK, 2465 01:07:30,847 --> 01:07:33,848 WEAPON DISAPPEARED IN THE CREEK, BO SAID HIS BROTHER TURNED TO 2466 01:07:34,050 --> 01:07:38,053 BO SAID HIS BROTHER TURNED TO HIM WITH A THREAT. 2467 01:07:38,255 --> 01:07:39,254 HIM WITH A THREAT. >> HIS WORDS WERE, "I -- I -- 2468 01:07:39,456 --> 01:07:40,722 >> HIS WORDS WERE, "I -- I -- [ BLEEP ] HER UP 2469 01:07:40,924 --> 01:07:44,192 [ BLEEP ] HER UP AND IF YOU TELL ANYBODY, I'M 2470 01:07:44,394 --> 01:07:45,226 AND IF YOU TELL ANYBODY, I'M GONNA [ BLEEP ] YOU UP, TOO. 2471 01:07:45,428 --> 01:07:46,327 GONNA [ BLEEP ] YOU UP, TOO. >> Reporter: BO SAID HE WENT TO 2472 01:07:46,529 --> 01:07:46,961 >> Reporter: BO SAID HE WENT TO SEE THEIR MOTHER, PATRICIA RIGHT 2473 01:07:47,163 --> 01:07:47,896 SEE THEIR MOTHER, PATRICIA RIGHT AWAY 2474 01:07:48,098 --> 01:07:48,463 AWAY >> I TALKED TO MY MOM, AND I 2475 01:07:48,665 --> 01:07:51,399 >> I TALKED TO MY MOM, AND I TOLD MY MOM. 2476 01:07:51,601 --> 01:07:53,701 TOLD MY MOM. >> SAME DAY? 2477 01:07:53,903 --> 01:07:54,769 >> SAME DAY? >> IT WAS THE SAME DAY 2478 01:07:54,971 --> 01:07:55,804 >> IT WAS THE SAME DAY I TOLD HER WHAT HE HAD TOLD ME 2479 01:07:56,006 --> 01:07:56,871 I TOLD HER WHAT HE HAD TOLD ME AND I TOLD HER, AND SHE SAYS, 2480 01:07:57,073 --> 01:07:57,906 AND I TOLD HER, AND SHE SAYS, "JUST DON'T DO ANYTHING TILL 2481 01:07:58,108 --> 01:07:59,541 "JUST DON'T DO ANYTHING TILL AFTER I'M GONE." 2482 01:07:59,743 --> 01:08:01,643 AFTER I'M GONE." >> DID SHE SEEM SURPRISED? 2483 01:08:01,845 --> 01:08:03,745 >> DID SHE SEEM SURPRISED? >> NO. 2484 01:08:03,947 --> 01:08:05,880 >> NO. >> BO'S EXPLANATION FOR STAYING 2485 01:08:06,082 --> 01:08:07,816 >> BO'S EXPLANATION FOR STAYING QUIET FOR SO LONG WAS NOT JUST 2486 01:08:08,018 --> 01:08:08,516 QUIET FOR SO LONG WAS NOT JUST THAT HE LOVED HIS BROTHER, BUT 2487 01:08:08,718 --> 01:08:09,584 THAT HE LOVED HIS BROTHER, BUT THAT HIS MOM HAD ASKED HIM TO 2488 01:08:09,786 --> 01:08:10,185 THAT HIS MOM HAD ASKED HIM TO NOT SAY ANYTHING WHILE SHE WAS 2489 01:08:10,387 --> 01:08:11,186 NOT SAY ANYTHING WHILE SHE WAS ALIVE. 2490 01:08:11,388 --> 01:08:13,455 ALIVE. >> Reporter: SHE KNEW ABOUT THE 2491 01:08:13,657 --> 01:08:16,458 >> Reporter: SHE KNEW ABOUT THE MURDER 2492 01:08:16,660 --> 01:08:17,492 MURDER >> FOR SURE, YEAH. 2493 01:08:17,694 --> 01:08:18,560 >> FOR SURE, YEAH. >> Reporter: SO WHY WAS HE 2494 01:08:18,762 --> 01:08:20,795 >> Reporter: SO WHY WAS HE FINALLY TELLING THIS STORY 2495 01:08:20,997 --> 01:08:23,431 FINALLY TELLING THIS STORY WELL, THEIR MOTHER HAD JUST 2496 01:08:23,633 --> 01:08:25,033 WELL, THEIR MOTHER HAD JUST DIED SIX MONTHS EARLIER. 2497 01:08:25,235 --> 01:08:26,401 DIED SIX MONTHS EARLIER. HE HAD KEPT HIS WORD TO HIS HER, 2498 01:08:26,603 --> 01:08:27,168 HE HAD KEPT HIS WORD TO HIS HER, BUT NOW SAID HE WANTED TO GET 2499 01:08:27,370 --> 01:08:28,736 BUT NOW SAID HE WANTED TO GET THIS BIG SECRET OFF HIS CHEST. 2500 01:08:28,938 --> 01:08:30,338 THIS BIG SECRET OFF HIS CHEST. >> THE TRUTH JUST NEEDS TO COME 2501 01:08:30,540 --> 01:08:32,774 >> THE TRUTH JUST NEEDS TO COME OUT, AND I NEED TO GET IT OFF. 2502 01:08:32,976 --> 01:08:35,110 OUT, AND I NEED TO GET IT OFF. AND OUR FAMILY NEEDS TO GO ON. 2503 01:08:35,312 --> 01:08:36,177 AND OUR FAMILY NEEDS TO GO ON. >> Reporter: THE TRUTH 2504 01:08:36,379 --> 01:08:37,779 >> Reporter: THE TRUTH INVESTIGATORS WOULD HAVE TO 2505 01:08:37,981 --> 01:08:38,847 INVESTIGATORS WOULD HAVE TO CORROBORATE BO'S STORY, LOOKING 2506 01:08:39,049 --> 01:08:42,016 CORROBORATE BO'S STORY, LOOKING FOR EVIDENCE THAT WAS NEVER 2507 01:08:42,218 --> 01:08:45,220 FOR EVIDENCE THAT WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE FOUND. 2508 01:08:45,422 --> 01:08:46,254 MEANT TO BE FOUND. >>> COMING UP -- 2509 01:08:46,456 --> 01:08:46,921 >>> COMING UP -- >> THERE'S A KNIFE ON HERE 2510 01:08:47,123 --> 01:08:48,923 >> THERE'S A KNIFE ON HERE IT WAS EXACTLY AS BO DESCRIBED 2511 01:08:49,125 --> 01:08:49,991 IT WAS EXACTLY AS BO DESCRIBED >> Reporter: THAT'S 2512 01:08:50,193 --> 01:08:51,059 >> Reporter: THAT'S UNBELIEVABLE 2513 01:08:51,261 --> 01:08:53,161 UNBELIEVABLE >> WAS THIS THE MURDER WEAPON? 2514 01:08:53,363 --> 01:08:54,762 >> WAS THIS THE MURDER WEAPON? AND COULD IT LEAD TO AN ARREST 2515 01:08:54,964 --> 01:08:55,797 AND COULD IT LEAD TO AN ARREST AT LAST? 2516 01:08:55,999 --> 01:08:56,364 AT LAST? >> I WAS ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED. 2517 01:08:56,566 --> 01:09:14,816 >> I WAS ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED. IT REALLY FELT LIKE IT WAS OUT 2518 01:09:15,018 --> 01:09:15,450 IT REALLY FELT LIKE IT WAS OUT >>> Reporter: THE INVESTIGATION 2519 01:09:15,652 --> 01:09:16,017 >>> Reporter: THE INVESTIGATION SWITCHED INTO HIGH GEAR ONCE 2520 01:09:16,219 --> 01:09:18,052 SWITCHED INTO HIGH GEAR ONCE MICHAEL PAGEL'S BROTHER, BO, 2521 01:09:18,254 --> 01:09:19,120 MICHAEL PAGEL'S BROTHER, BO, SWORE UNDER OATH THAT MICHAEL 2522 01:09:19,322 --> 01:09:20,722 SWORE UNDER OATH THAT MICHAEL CONFESSED TO KILLING RENEE AND 2523 01:09:20,924 --> 01:09:22,323 CONFESSED TO KILLING RENEE AND DROPPED THE MURDER WEAPON INTO A 2524 01:09:22,525 --> 01:09:23,925 DROPPED THE MURDER WEAPON INTO A CREEK. 2525 01:09:24,127 --> 01:09:25,493 CREEK. DETECTIVES ASKED BO TO DRAW A 2526 01:09:25,695 --> 01:09:27,629 DETECTIVES ASKED BO TO DRAW A PICTURE OF THE KNIFE AND HELP 2527 01:09:27,831 --> 01:09:29,764 PICTURE OF THE KNIFE AND HELP THEM LOCATE THE SPOT 2528 01:09:29,966 --> 01:09:31,332 THEM LOCATE THE SPOT >> FEBRUARY 5th, 2020. 2529 01:09:31,534 --> 01:09:32,934 >> FEBRUARY 5th, 2020. >> Reporter: AND SOON BILL MARKS 2530 01:09:33,136 --> 01:09:35,036 >> Reporter: AND SOON BILL MARKS AND A DIVE TEAM HEADED TO 2531 01:09:35,238 --> 01:09:36,104 AND A DIVE TEAM HEADED TO SAGINAW TO SEARCH. 2532 01:09:36,306 --> 01:09:37,705 SAGINAW TO SEARCH. >> DAY ONE, WE FOUND A LOT OF 2533 01:09:37,907 --> 01:09:39,807 >> DAY ONE, WE FOUND A LOT OF METAL, A LOT OF SHARDS 2534 01:09:40,009 --> 01:09:40,875 METAL, A LOT OF SHARDS >> Reporter: DAY TWO 2535 01:09:41,077 --> 01:09:41,943 >> Reporter: DAY TWO >> DAY TWO WE COLLECTED 2536 01:09:42,145 --> 01:09:43,011 >> DAY TWO WE COLLECTED EVERYTHING FROM CAR PARTS TO 2537 01:09:43,213 --> 01:09:44,679 EVERYTHING FROM CAR PARTS TO HOME STEREOS 2538 01:09:44,881 --> 01:09:45,280 HOME STEREOS >> Reporter: SO YOU WENT BACK 2539 01:09:45,482 --> 01:09:46,181 >> Reporter: SO YOU WENT BACK FOR A THIRD DAY? 2540 01:09:46,383 --> 01:09:47,315 FOR A THIRD DAY? >> THIRD DAY, WE WERE JUST ABOUT 2541 01:09:47,517 --> 01:09:48,316 >> THIRD DAY, WE WERE JUST ABOUT DONE, THE LAST FEW PASSES. 2542 01:09:48,518 --> 01:09:49,350 DONE, THE LAST FEW PASSES. >> Reporter: THIS WAS THE END OF 2543 01:09:49,552 --> 01:09:50,418 >> Reporter: THIS WAS THE END OF THE SEARCH 2544 01:09:50,620 --> 01:09:51,986 THE SEARCH >> YES 2545 01:09:52,188 --> 01:09:53,054 >> YES I STARTED PULLIN' BACK THE 2546 01:09:53,256 --> 01:09:54,122 I STARTED PULLIN' BACK THE MAGNET TOWARD ME, AND IT GOT 2547 01:09:54,324 --> 01:09:55,190 MAGNET TOWARD ME, AND IT GOT HUNG UP ON SOMETHING, STUCK 2548 01:09:55,392 --> 01:09:56,257 HUNG UP ON SOMETHING, STUCK REALLY STRONG. 2549 01:09:56,459 --> 01:09:57,559 REALLY STRONG. >> Reporter: ONE OF THE DIVERS 2550 01:09:57,761 --> 01:09:58,393 >> Reporter: ONE OF THE DIVERS FINALLY WRESTLED IT OUT OF 2551 01:09:58,595 --> 01:09:59,994 FINALLY WRESTLED IT OUT OF WATER. 2552 01:10:00,196 --> 01:10:03,064 WATER. >> I STILL COULDN'T SEE IT 2553 01:10:03,266 --> 01:10:04,632 >> I STILL COULDN'T SEE IT 'CAUSE IT'S ALL BLACK AND ALL 2554 01:10:04,834 --> 01:10:05,700 'CAUSE IT'S ALL BLACK AND ALL THE METAL RUSTY. 2555 01:10:05,902 --> 01:10:07,302 THE METAL RUSTY. THERE'S A KNIFE ON HERE. 2556 01:10:07,504 --> 01:10:07,802 THERE'S A KNIFE ON HERE. >> Reporter: WOW 2557 01:10:08,004 --> 01:10:08,369 >> Reporter: WOW >> THERE WAS NO DOUBT. 2558 01:10:08,571 --> 01:10:09,404 >> THERE WAS NO DOUBT. IT WAS EXACTLY AS BO DESCRIBED 2559 01:10:09,606 --> 01:10:11,005 IT WAS EXACTLY AS BO DESCRIBED >> Reporter: THAT'S 2560 01:10:11,207 --> 01:10:12,073 >> Reporter: THAT'S UNBELIEVABLE 2561 01:10:12,275 --> 01:10:13,641 UNBELIEVABLE BILL TEXTED THE PICTURE OF THE 2562 01:10:13,843 --> 01:10:16,311 BILL TEXTED THE PICTURE OF THE KNIFE TO THE PROSECUTORS 2563 01:10:16,513 --> 01:10:18,446 KNIFE TO THE PROSECUTORS >> I COULDN'T EVEN DESCRIBE WHAT 2564 01:10:18,648 --> 01:10:22,684 >> I COULDN'T EVEN DESCRIBE WHAT I WAS SEEING, I WAS SO SHOCKED 2565 01:10:22,886 --> 01:10:23,718 I WAS SEEING, I WAS SO SHOCKED ALL I COULD DO WAS SHOW THE BOSS 2566 01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:25,620 ALL I COULD DO WAS SHOW THE BOSS A PICTURE, AND IT WAS AMAZING. 2567 01:10:25,822 --> 01:10:26,387 A PICTURE, AND IT WAS AMAZING. IT WAS ENTIRELY CONSISTENT WITH 2568 01:10:26,589 --> 01:10:28,489 IT WAS ENTIRELY CONSISTENT WITH WHAT WE KNEW FROM THE MEDICAL 2569 01:10:28,691 --> 01:10:31,159 WHAT WE KNEW FROM THE MEDICAL EXAMINER'S REPORT WAS USED IN 2570 01:10:31,361 --> 01:10:31,492 EXAMINER'S REPORT WAS USED IN THIS 2571 01:10:31,694 --> 01:10:33,595 THIS >> WE WERE CONFIDENT WE HAD THE 2572 01:10:33,797 --> 01:10:34,128 >> WE WERE CONFIDENT WE HAD THE RIGHT ONE. 2573 01:10:34,330 --> 01:10:35,997 RIGHT ONE. IT MATCHED THE DRAWING THAT BO 2574 01:10:36,199 --> 01:10:36,798 IT MATCHED THE DRAWING THAT BO HAD GIVEN US 2575 01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:37,832 HAD GIVEN US THE DESCRIPTION WAS IDENTICAL. 2576 01:10:38,034 --> 01:10:38,933 THE DESCRIPTION WAS IDENTICAL. >> Reporter: NOW THEY HAD ENOUGH 2577 01:10:39,135 --> 01:10:42,170 >> Reporter: NOW THEY HAD ENOUGH FOR MICHAEL'S ARREST 2578 01:10:42,372 --> 01:10:44,405 FOR MICHAEL'S ARREST AND AFTER ALL THESE YEARS, 2579 01:10:44,607 --> 01:10:45,373 AND AFTER ALL THESE YEARS, DETECTIVE JOHNSON, NOW 2580 01:10:45,575 --> 01:10:47,675 DETECTIVE JOHNSON, NOW LIEUTENANT JOHNSON, WANTED TO BE 2581 01:10:47,877 --> 01:10:48,576 LIEUTENANT JOHNSON, WANTED TO BE THE ONE TO DO IT 2582 01:10:48,778 --> 01:10:50,678 THE ONE TO DO IT >> WE PUT A LOT OF TIME AND 2583 01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:51,846 >> WE PUT A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT INTO THIS 2584 01:10:52,048 --> 01:10:52,380 EFFORT INTO THIS AND WHEN THE TIME COMES TO 2585 01:10:52,582 --> 01:10:54,949 AND WHEN THE TIME COMES TO ARREST HIM, I WANNA BE THERE 2586 01:10:55,151 --> 01:10:57,051 ARREST HIM, I WANNA BE THERE I GO TO MIKE 2587 01:10:57,253 --> 01:10:59,187 I GO TO MIKE I PLACED MY CUFFS ON HIM AND PUT 2588 01:10:59,389 --> 01:11:01,289 I PLACED MY CUFFS ON HIM AND PUT HIM IN THE BACK OF THE CAR 2589 01:11:01,491 --> 01:11:02,056 HIM IN THE BACK OF THE CAR BUT I DID TAKE A NICE PICTURE OF 2590 01:11:02,258 --> 01:11:04,926 BUT I DID TAKE A NICE PICTURE OF HIM PRIOR TO ME LEAVING AND SENT 2591 01:11:05,128 --> 01:11:07,795 HIM PRIOR TO ME LEAVING AND SENT IT TO CHRIS CRANDLE. 2592 01:11:07,997 --> 01:11:08,396 IT TO CHRIS CRANDLE. >> I SEE E.J. JOHNSON'S NUMBER 2593 01:11:08,598 --> 01:11:10,898 >> I SEE E.J. JOHNSON'S NUMBER SHOW UP ON MY PHONE, AND I 2594 01:11:11,100 --> 01:11:12,467 SHOW UP ON MY PHONE, AND I ANSWERED IT. 2595 01:11:12,669 --> 01:11:13,568 ANSWERED IT. AND HE SAYS, "YOU KNOW HOW THEY 2596 01:11:13,770 --> 01:11:14,135 AND HE SAYS, "YOU KNOW HOW THEY SAY GOD IS GOOD ALL THE TIME 2597 01:11:14,337 --> 01:11:15,136 SAY GOD IS GOOD ALL THE TIME GOD IS GOOD? 2598 01:11:15,338 --> 01:11:16,204 GOD IS GOOD? I SAID, "WHAT? 2599 01:11:16,406 --> 01:11:17,805 I SAID, "WHAT? TELL ME. 2600 01:11:18,007 --> 01:11:19,374 TELL ME. AND HE SAID, "GUESS WHO I HAVE 2601 01:11:19,576 --> 01:11:21,009 AND HE SAID, "GUESS WHO I HAVE IN MY BACKSEAT." 2602 01:11:21,211 --> 01:11:22,543 IN MY BACKSEAT." AND I SAID, "YOU ARE KIDDING 2603 01:11:22,745 --> 01:11:23,611 AND I SAID, "YOU ARE KIDDING ME." 2604 01:11:23,813 --> 01:11:25,913 ME." HE SENT ME A PICTURE OF HIM IN 2605 01:11:26,115 --> 01:11:28,249 HE SENT ME A PICTURE OF HIM IN HIS BACKSEAT 2606 01:11:28,251 --> 01:11:30,518 HIS BACKSEAT >> I REMEMBER I WAS TEACHING 2607 01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:34,822 >> I REMEMBER I WAS TEACHING CHRIS CALLED ME. 2608 01:11:35,024 --> 01:11:37,892 CHRIS CALLED ME. AND SHE SAID, "YOU WILL NEVER 2609 01:11:38,094 --> 01:11:39,994 AND SHE SAID, "YOU WILL NEVER GUESS WHO IS IN THE BACK OF 2610 01:11:40,196 --> 01:11:41,062 GUESS WHO IS IN THE BACK OF E.J.'S CAR 2611 01:11:41,264 --> 01:11:44,265 E.J.'S CAR AND I REMEMBER I JUST STARTED 2612 01:11:44,267 --> 01:11:45,300 AND I REMEMBER I JUST STARTED CRYING 2613 01:11:45,502 --> 01:11:47,435 CRYING AND MY TEACHER FRIENDS HAD 2614 01:11:47,637 --> 01:11:49,037 AND MY TEACHER FRIENDS HAD REALLY EMBRACED ME OVER THESE 2615 01:11:49,239 --> 01:11:50,605 REALLY EMBRACED ME OVER THESE YEARS BECAUSE THEY KNEW WHAT I 2616 01:11:50,807 --> 01:11:53,241 YEARS BECAUSE THEY KNEW WHAT I HAD GONE THROUGH 2617 01:11:53,443 --> 01:11:55,376 HAD GONE THROUGH >> YOU CAN'T EVEN DESCRIBE HOW 2618 01:11:55,578 --> 01:11:59,080 >> YOU CAN'T EVEN DESCRIBE HOW RELIEVED YOU ARE TO FINALLY HAVE 2619 01:11:59,282 --> 01:12:00,682 RELIEVED YOU ARE TO FINALLY HAVE THIS MOMENT THAT YOU'VE BEEN 2620 01:12:00,884 --> 01:12:02,283 THIS MOMENT THAT YOU'VE BEEN WAITING FOR FOR 13, 14 YEARS OF 2621 01:12:02,285 --> 01:12:04,385 WAITING FOR FOR 13, 14 YEARS OF A MAN THAT'S BEEN OUT THERE, 2622 01:12:04,587 --> 01:12:06,854 A MAN THAT'S BEEN OUT THERE, WALKING FREE, THAT KILLED HIS 2623 01:12:07,056 --> 01:12:08,656 WALKING FREE, THAT KILLED HIS WIFE, MOTHER OF HIS CHILDREN 2624 01:12:08,858 --> 01:12:10,224 WIFE, MOTHER OF HIS CHILDREN >> Reporter: THE NEWS OF 2625 01:12:10,426 --> 01:12:11,292 >> Reporter: THE NEWS OF MICHAEL'S ARREST HAD A DIFFERENT 2626 01:12:11,494 --> 01:12:12,960 MICHAEL'S ARREST HAD A DIFFERENT EFFECT ON THOSE CHILDREN 2627 01:12:13,162 --> 01:12:14,896 EFFECT ON THOSE CHILDREN HIS DAUGHTER SARAH WAS NOW 2628 01:12:15,098 --> 01:12:16,064 HIS DAUGHTER SARAH WAS NOW 21 YEARS OLD 2629 01:12:16,266 --> 01:12:17,665 21 YEARS OLD NOW YOU'RE NOT 7 ANYMORE 2630 01:12:17,867 --> 01:12:18,733 NOW YOU'RE NOT 7 ANYMORE YOU'RE ABLE TO REALLY PROCESS IT 2631 01:12:18,935 --> 01:12:20,301 YOU'RE ABLE TO REALLY PROCESS IT THIS TIME. 2632 01:12:20,303 --> 01:12:22,870 THIS TIME. AND WHAT -- SO WHAT'S GOING 2633 01:12:23,072 --> 01:12:23,504 AND WHAT -- SO WHAT'S GOING THROUGH YOUR MIND? 2634 01:12:23,706 --> 01:12:26,140 THROUGH YOUR MIND? >> I MEAN, AT FIRST I WAS -- I 2635 01:12:26,342 --> 01:12:28,576 >> I MEAN, AT FIRST I WAS -- I WAS ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED 2636 01:12:28,778 --> 01:12:29,344 WAS ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED I MEAN, THAT'S THE LAST THING I 2637 01:12:29,546 --> 01:12:30,411 I MEAN, THAT'S THE LAST THING I THOUGHT I WOULD HEAR, AND IT 2638 01:12:30,613 --> 01:12:32,013 THOUGHT I WOULD HEAR, AND IT REALLY FELT LIKE IT WAS OUT OF 2639 01:12:32,215 --> 01:12:33,047 REALLY FELT LIKE IT WAS OUT OF THE BLUE 2640 01:12:33,249 --> 01:12:34,649 THE BLUE I MEAN, THAT KIND OF HITS YOU 2641 01:12:34,851 --> 01:12:36,250 I MEAN, THAT KIND OF HITS YOU OUT OF NOWHERE 2642 01:12:36,452 --> 01:12:37,819 OUT OF NOWHERE IT WAS VERY HARD TO PROCESS AT 2643 01:12:38,021 --> 01:12:39,420 IT WAS VERY HARD TO PROCESS AT FIRST. 2644 01:12:39,622 --> 01:12:41,022 FIRST. AND, YOU KNOW, UNTIL I COULD 2645 01:12:41,224 --> 01:12:45,793 AND, YOU KNOW, UNTIL I COULD REALLY TALK TO HIM, IT FELT LIKE 2646 01:12:45,995 --> 01:12:47,395 REALLY TALK TO HIM, IT FELT LIKE I HAD NO IDEA WHAT WAS GOING ON. 2647 01:12:47,597 --> 01:12:48,429 I HAD NO IDEA WHAT WAS GOING ON. BUT I -- I -- YEAH, IT WAS 2648 01:12:48,631 --> 01:12:49,597 BUT I -- I -- YEAH, IT WAS DEFINITELY -- IT WAS VERY 2649 01:12:49,799 --> 01:12:51,099 DEFINITELY -- IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT. 2650 01:12:51,301 --> 01:12:52,166 DIFFICULT. >> Reporter: DID YOU THINK, "NOT 2651 01:12:52,368 --> 01:12:53,201 >> Reporter: DID YOU THINK, "NOT MY DAD 2652 01:12:53,403 --> 01:12:54,302 MY DAD GO FIND THE REAL KILLER. 2653 01:12:54,504 --> 01:12:55,336 GO FIND THE REAL KILLER. YOU KNOW, HE OR SHE IS OUT 2654 01:12:55,538 --> 01:12:56,938 YOU KNOW, HE OR SHE IS OUT THERE. 2655 01:12:57,140 --> 01:12:58,139 THERE. >> OF COURSE 2656 01:12:58,341 --> 01:12:59,574 >> OF COURSE YOU NEVER WANT YOUR DAD TO BE 2657 01:12:59,776 --> 01:13:00,641 YOU NEVER WANT YOUR DAD TO BE THE ONE BEHIND EVERYTHING. 2658 01:13:00,843 --> 01:13:02,243 THE ONE BEHIND EVERYTHING. AND OBVIOUSLY I -- I WAS 2659 01:13:02,445 --> 01:13:04,345 AND OBVIOUSLY I -- I WAS THINKING, LIKE, "YEAH, THERE HAS 2660 01:13:04,347 --> 01:13:05,413 THINKING, LIKE, "YEAH, THERE HAS TO BE ANOTHER WAY. 2661 01:13:05,615 --> 01:13:07,081 TO BE ANOTHER WAY. THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING ELSE 2662 01:13:07,283 --> 01:13:08,583 THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING ELSE LIKE, THERE'S SOMETHING MISSING 2663 01:13:08,785 --> 01:13:09,650 LIKE, THERE'S SOMETHING MISSING HERE." 2664 01:13:09,852 --> 01:13:10,718 HERE." >> Reporter: SARAH WENT TO TALK 2665 01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:12,320 >> Reporter: SARAH WENT TO TALK TO HER FATHER IN JAIL. 2666 01:13:12,522 --> 01:13:13,888 TO HER FATHER IN JAIL. WHAT DID HE SAY TO YOU 2667 01:13:14,090 --> 01:13:14,956 WHAT DID HE SAY TO YOU >> HE JUST SAID EVERYTHING'S 2668 01:13:15,158 --> 01:13:16,023 >> HE JUST SAID EVERYTHING'S GONNA BE OKAY. 2669 01:13:16,225 --> 01:13:17,392 GONNA BE OKAY. AND WE TALKED ABOUT EVERYTHING 2670 01:13:17,594 --> 01:13:18,926 AND WE TALKED ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT 2671 01:13:19,128 --> 01:13:19,727 THAT WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT >> Reporter: DID YOU ASK HIM, 2672 01:13:19,929 --> 01:13:20,795 >> Reporter: DID YOU ASK HIM, "DAD, DID YOU DO THIS? 2673 01:13:20,997 --> 01:13:21,863 "DAD, DID YOU DO THIS? >> NO. 2674 01:13:22,065 --> 01:13:22,930 >> NO. >> Reporter: HAVE YOU EVER ASKED 2675 01:13:23,132 --> 01:13:23,965 >> Reporter: HAVE YOU EVER ASKED HIM THAT 2676 01:13:24,167 --> 01:13:25,600 HIM THAT >> NO, I -- I'VE NEVER FELT THE 2677 01:13:25,802 --> 01:13:29,270 >> NO, I -- I'VE NEVER FELT THE NEED TO. 2678 01:13:29,472 --> 01:13:30,338 NEED TO. >> Reporter: WAS THERE A PART OF 2679 01:13:30,540 --> 01:13:32,140 >> Reporter: WAS THERE A PART OF YOU THAT THOUGHT FOR A MOMENT, 2680 01:13:32,342 --> 01:13:33,541 YOU THAT THOUGHT FOR A MOMENT, "HE DID THIS" OR "I THINK HE DID 2681 01:13:33,743 --> 01:13:35,109 "HE DID THIS" OR "I THINK HE DID THIS"? 2682 01:13:35,311 --> 01:13:36,210 THIS"? >> I THINK I THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, 2683 01:13:36,412 --> 01:13:38,312 >> I THINK I THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, NOW THAT HE'S ARRESTED, YOU 2684 01:13:38,514 --> 01:13:40,047 NOW THAT HE'S ARRESTED, YOU KNOW, THERE - - THERE'S 2685 01:13:40,249 --> 01:13:40,982 KNOW, THERE - - THERE'S SOMETHING THERE. 2686 01:13:41,184 --> 01:13:42,016 SOMETHING THERE. SO MAYBE IF IT GOES TO TRIAL, 2687 01:13:42,218 --> 01:13:43,618 SO MAYBE IF IT GOES TO TRIAL, HE'S FOUND INNOCENT. 2688 01:13:43,820 --> 01:13:45,920 HE'S FOUND INNOCENT. THEN WE CAN JUST FINALLY 2689 01:13:46,122 --> 01:13:48,923 THEN WE CAN JUST FINALLY ACTUALLY GO ON WITH OUR LIVES. 2690 01:13:49,125 --> 01:13:49,991 ACTUALLY GO ON WITH OUR LIVES. >> Reporter: BUT IT WOULDN'T 2691 01:13:50,193 --> 01:13:51,559 >> Reporter: BUT IT WOULDN'T TURN OUT TO BE THAT SIMPLE 2692 01:13:51,761 --> 01:13:53,161 TURN OUT TO BE THAT SIMPLE JUST WHEN YOU THINK THIS STORY 2693 01:13:53,363 --> 01:13:55,830 JUST WHEN YOU THINK THIS STORY IS OVER, IT ISN'T. 2694 01:13:56,032 --> 01:13:57,398 IS OVER, IT ISN'T. THE BIGGEST BOMBSHELL OF ALL 2695 01:13:57,600 --> 01:14:01,135 THE BIGGEST BOMBSHELL OF ALL DROPS IN YOUR LAP. 2696 01:14:01,337 --> 01:14:03,771 DROPS IN YOUR LAP. >> YEAH, YEAH. 2697 01:14:03,973 --> 01:14:04,839 >> YEAH, YEAH. >>> COMING UP -- 2698 01:14:05,041 --> 01:14:08,075 >>> COMING UP -- MICHAEL PAGEL SPEAKS 2699 01:14:08,277 --> 01:14:09,610 MICHAEL PAGEL SPEAKS AND HE'S GOT A WHOPPER OF A 2700 01:14:09,812 --> 01:14:10,678 AND HE'S GOT A WHOPPER OF A STORY. 2701 01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:14,081 STORY. >> WE AGREED ON $100,000 FOR HIM 2702 01:14:14,283 --> 01:14:15,616 >> WE AGREED ON $100,000 FOR HIM TO MURDER RENEE. 2703 01:14:15,818 --> 01:14:17,718 TO MURDER RENEE. >> MIKE PAGEL SAYS, "I DIDN'T 2704 01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:18,786 >> MIKE PAGEL SAYS, "I DIDN'T KILL MY WIFE." 2705 01:14:18,988 --> 01:14:39,140 KILL MY WIFE." >> Reporter: DO YOU HAVE TO 2706 01:14:39,342 --> 01:14:39,740 >> Reporter: DO YOU HAVE TO >>> Reporter: SARAH PAGEL WAS 2707 01:14:39,942 --> 01:14:40,775 >>> Reporter: SARAH PAGEL WAS BRACING FOR A TRIAL. 2708 01:14:40,977 --> 01:14:42,677 BRACING FOR A TRIAL. HER FATHER ACCUSED OF KILLING 2709 01:14:42,879 --> 01:14:43,845 HER FATHER ACCUSED OF KILLING HER MOTHER 2710 01:14:44,047 --> 01:14:44,445 HER MOTHER DID YOU THINK, "MY DAD DOESN'T 2711 01:14:44,447 --> 01:14:45,546 DID YOU THINK, "MY DAD DOESN'T HAVE THE TEMPERAMENT TO KILL 2712 01:14:45,748 --> 01:14:46,581 HAVE THE TEMPERAMENT TO KILL SOMEONE" 2713 01:14:46,783 --> 01:14:47,648 SOMEONE" >> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. 2714 01:14:47,850 --> 01:14:49,217 >> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. >> Reporter: "OR TO TAKE OUR 2715 01:14:49,419 --> 01:14:50,284 >> Reporter: "OR TO TAKE OUR MOTHER AWAY FROM US" 2716 01:14:50,486 --> 01:14:51,552 MOTHER AWAY FROM US" >> YEAH, I -- I ABSOLUTELY 2717 01:14:51,754 --> 01:14:52,920 >> YEAH, I -- I ABSOLUTELY THOUGHT THAT 2718 01:14:53,122 --> 01:14:54,489 THOUGHT THAT >> Reporter: BUT ONE EMAIL FROM 2719 01:14:54,691 --> 01:14:56,057 >> Reporter: BUT ONE EMAIL FROM MICHAEL'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY 2720 01:14:56,259 --> 01:14:58,159 MICHAEL'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY CHANGED ALL OF THAT. 2721 01:14:58,361 --> 01:14:58,693 CHANGED ALL OF THAT. MICHAEL WANTED A SHORTCUT. 2722 01:14:58,895 --> 01:14:59,760 MICHAEL WANTED A SHORTCUT. >> HE REACHED OUT TO US AND SAID 2723 01:14:59,962 --> 01:15:00,795 >> HE REACHED OUT TO US AND SAID THROUGH HIS ATTORNEYS, EARLY ON 2724 01:15:00,997 --> 01:15:02,396 THROUGH HIS ATTORNEYS, EARLY ON BEFORE OUR PRELIMINARY HEARING, 2725 01:15:02,598 --> 01:15:03,464 BEFORE OUR PRELIMINARY HEARING, SAID, "HEY, WOULD YOU BE 2726 01:15:03,666 --> 01:15:05,032 SAID, "HEY, WOULD YOU BE INTERESTED IN MAKING HIM AN 2727 01:15:05,234 --> 01:15:06,100 INTERESTED IN MAKING HIM AN OFFER? 2728 01:15:06,302 --> 01:15:08,503 OFFER? AND WE'RE LIKE, "WHAT? 2729 01:15:08,705 --> 01:15:09,003 AND WE'RE LIKE, "WHAT? THAT WAS A SURPRISE ALSO 2730 01:15:09,205 --> 01:15:09,837 THAT WAS A SURPRISE ALSO >> Reporter: BEFORE RESPONDING 2731 01:15:10,039 --> 01:15:11,405 >> Reporter: BEFORE RESPONDING TO MICHAEL'S ATTORNEY, 2732 01:15:11,607 --> 01:15:12,473 TO MICHAEL'S ATTORNEY, PROSECUTORS MET WITH HIS 2733 01:15:12,475 --> 01:15:14,041 PROSECUTORS MET WITH HIS CHILDREN 2734 01:15:14,243 --> 01:15:15,610 CHILDREN THEY WANTED TO KNOW HOW THEY 2735 01:15:15,812 --> 01:15:17,245 THEY WANTED TO KNOW HOW THEY FELT ABOUT LETTING THEIR FATHER 2736 01:15:17,447 --> 01:15:18,713 FELT ABOUT LETTING THEIR FATHER TAKE A PLEA INSTEAD OF GOING 2737 01:15:18,915 --> 01:15:19,881 TAKE A PLEA INSTEAD OF GOING THROUGH A PAINFUL PUBLIC TRIAL 2738 01:15:20,083 --> 01:15:20,915 THROUGH A PAINFUL PUBLIC TRIAL >> WE DID NOT WANT TO MAKE ANY 2739 01:15:21,117 --> 01:15:22,483 >> WE DID NOT WANT TO MAKE ANY KIND OF OFFER OR -- OR EVEN 2740 01:15:22,485 --> 01:15:25,253 KIND OF OFFER OR -- OR EVEN CONSIDER AN OFFER. 2741 01:15:25,455 --> 01:15:26,721 CONSIDER AN OFFER. IN FACT, IF IT WASN'T FOR THOSE 2742 01:15:26,923 --> 01:15:28,289 IN FACT, IF IT WASN'T FOR THOSE KIDS, WE WOULD'VE MADE NO OFFER. 2743 01:15:28,491 --> 01:15:29,857 KIDS, WE WOULD'VE MADE NO OFFER. WE WOULD'VE TRIED HIM AND, GOD 2744 01:15:30,059 --> 01:15:30,925 WE WOULD'VE TRIED HIM AND, GOD WILLING, THE JURY WOULD'VE SEEN 2745 01:15:31,127 --> 01:15:33,027 WILLING, THE JURY WOULD'VE SEEN THE TRUTH, AND HE WOULD'VE GONE 2746 01:15:33,229 --> 01:15:34,195 THE TRUTH, AND HE WOULD'VE GONE AWAY FOR LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE AND 2747 01:15:34,397 --> 01:15:35,897 AWAY FOR LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE AND DIED IN PRISON 2748 01:15:36,099 --> 01:15:36,731 DIED IN PRISON BUT THE FACT IS HE DOES HAVE 2749 01:15:36,933 --> 01:15:37,798 BUT THE FACT IS HE DOES HAVE THREE LOVELY CHILDREN WHO ARE 2750 01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:38,866 THREE LOVELY CHILDREN WHO ARE IMPACTED BY THIS MORE THAN 2751 01:15:39,068 --> 01:15:40,468 IMPACTED BY THIS MORE THAN ANYBODY. 2752 01:15:40,670 --> 01:15:41,502 ANYBODY. >> Reporter: FOR SARAH, IT WAS 2753 01:15:41,704 --> 01:15:42,570 >> Reporter: FOR SARAH, IT WAS THE FIRST TIME SHE HEARD THE 2754 01:15:42,772 --> 01:15:43,638 THE FIRST TIME SHE HEARD THE EVIDENCE POINTING AT HER 2755 01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:44,672 EVIDENCE POINTING AT HER FATHER'S INVOLVEMENT IN HER 2756 01:15:44,874 --> 01:15:46,274 FATHER'S INVOLVEMENT IN HER MOTHER'S DEATH 2757 01:15:46,476 --> 01:15:47,875 MOTHER'S DEATH >> THEY EXPLAINED THE EVIDENCE 2758 01:15:48,077 --> 01:15:49,443 >> THEY EXPLAINED THE EVIDENCE THEY HAD 2759 01:15:49,645 --> 01:15:51,045 THEY HAD THEY EXPLAINED HOW THEY GOT IT 2760 01:15:51,247 --> 01:15:52,613 THEY EXPLAINED HOW THEY GOT IT THEY WERE DEFINITELY IN A 2761 01:15:52,815 --> 01:15:54,215 THEY WERE DEFINITELY IN A DIFFICULT SITUATION, YOU KNOW, 2762 01:15:54,417 --> 01:15:56,317 DIFFICULT SITUATION, YOU KNOW, REPRESENTING MY MOM AND JUSTICE 2763 01:15:56,519 --> 01:15:58,419 REPRESENTING MY MOM AND JUSTICE FOR HER. 2764 01:15:58,621 --> 01:16:01,589 FOR HER. BUT ALSO KNOWING THAT WE WERE 2765 01:16:01,791 --> 01:16:05,259 BUT ALSO KNOWING THAT WE WERE THE ONES THAT WERE SUFFERING 2766 01:16:05,461 --> 01:16:06,327 THE ONES THAT WERE SUFFERING BECAUSE OF MY DAD'S ACTIONS. 2767 01:16:06,529 --> 01:16:08,963 BECAUSE OF MY DAD'S ACTIONS. AND SO PUTTING HIM IN JAIL, YOU 2768 01:16:09,165 --> 01:16:11,098 AND SO PUTTING HIM IN JAIL, YOU KNOW, WAS DOING GOOD BY MY MOM, 2769 01:16:11,300 --> 01:16:14,268 KNOW, WAS DOING GOOD BY MY MOM, BUT ALSO HURT US IMMENSELY 2770 01:16:14,470 --> 01:16:15,336 BUT ALSO HURT US IMMENSELY BUT THEY WANTED US TO KNOW THAT 2771 01:16:15,538 --> 01:16:16,938 BUT THEY WANTED US TO KNOW THAT THERE WAS TWO DIFFERENT 2772 01:16:17,140 --> 01:16:19,040 THERE WAS TWO DIFFERENT MIKE PAGELS AT THAT TIME 2773 01:16:19,242 --> 01:16:20,107 MIKE PAGELS AT THAT TIME >> Reporter: HE COULD BE AN 2774 01:16:20,309 --> 01:16:21,909 >> Reporter: HE COULD BE AN AMAZING FATHER TO YOU BUT THEN 2775 01:16:22,111 --> 01:16:22,710 AMAZING FATHER TO YOU BUT THEN BE CAPABLE OF SOMETHING EVIL 2776 01:16:22,912 --> 01:16:25,346 BE CAPABLE OF SOMETHING EVIL >> YEAH. 2777 01:16:25,548 --> 01:16:27,448 >> YEAH. >> Reporter: AND HOW DO YOU DEAL 2778 01:16:27,650 --> 01:16:28,516 >> Reporter: AND HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THAT? 2779 01:16:28,718 --> 01:16:30,084 WITH THAT? THIS IS JUST -- I MEAN -- I HAVE 2780 01:16:30,286 --> 01:16:32,186 THIS IS JUST -- I MEAN -- I HAVE NO WORDS 2781 01:16:32,388 --> 01:16:33,788 NO WORDS >> IT WAS DIFFICULT. 2782 01:16:33,990 --> 01:16:35,923 >> IT WAS DIFFICULT. I MEAN, ABSOLUTELY 2783 01:16:36,125 --> 01:16:37,458 I MEAN, ABSOLUTELY AND I -- I TALKED TO HIM MAYBE 2784 01:16:37,660 --> 01:16:39,060 AND I -- I TALKED TO HIM MAYBE AN HOUR AFTER THE PLEA DEAL. 2785 01:16:39,262 --> 01:16:40,628 AN HOUR AFTER THE PLEA DEAL. I MEAN, YEAH 2786 01:16:40,830 --> 01:16:41,996 I MEAN, YEAH IT WAS -- IT WAS A DIFFICULT 2787 01:16:42,198 --> 01:16:43,364 IT WAS -- IT WAS A DIFFICULT CONVERSATION 2788 01:16:43,566 --> 01:16:44,332 CONVERSATION >> Reporter: DID HE APOLOGIZE TO 2789 01:16:44,534 --> 01:16:45,900 >> Reporter: DID HE APOLOGIZE TO YOU? 2790 01:16:46,102 --> 01:16:46,968 YOU? >> YEAH. 2791 01:16:47,170 --> 01:16:48,569 >> YEAH. I MEAN, ABSOLUTELY 2792 01:16:48,571 --> 01:16:51,072 I MEAN, ABSOLUTELY >> Reporter: WHAT WAS THE 2793 01:16:51,274 --> 01:16:53,307 >> Reporter: WHAT WAS THE BIGGEST QUESTION YOU HAD FOR 2794 01:16:53,509 --> 01:16:55,943 BIGGEST QUESTION YOU HAD FOR HIM? 2795 01:16:56,145 --> 01:16:58,045 HIM? >> I GUESS, "WHY?" 2796 01:16:58,247 --> 01:16:59,080 >> I GUESS, "WHY?" >> Reporter: WHAT DID HE SAY 2797 01:16:59,282 --> 01:17:01,215 >> Reporter: WHAT DID HE SAY >> I -- I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE 2798 01:17:01,417 --> 01:17:03,317 >> I -- I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE ANSWERING THAT 2799 01:17:03,519 --> 01:17:04,919 ANSWERING THAT SORRY. 2800 01:17:05,121 --> 01:17:05,987 SORRY. >> Reporter: MICHAEL PLEADED 2801 01:17:06,189 --> 01:17:08,089 >> Reporter: MICHAEL PLEADED GUILTY TO SECOND DEGREE MURDER 2802 01:17:08,291 --> 01:17:09,690 GUILTY TO SECOND DEGREE MURDER WITH A PRISON TERM OF 2803 01:17:09,892 --> 01:17:12,860 WITH A PRISON TERM OF 25 TO 50 YEARS 2804 01:17:13,062 --> 01:17:14,962 25 TO 50 YEARS AT HIS PLEA HEARING, HE TOLD HIS 2805 01:17:15,164 --> 01:17:19,734 AT HIS PLEA HEARING, HE TOLD HIS STORY. 2806 01:17:19,936 --> 01:17:21,836 STORY. >> BACK IN 2006, I WAS GOING 2807 01:17:22,038 --> 01:17:23,404 >> BACK IN 2006, I WAS GOING THROUGH A DIVORCE WITH MY WIFE, 2808 01:17:23,606 --> 01:17:25,539 THROUGH A DIVORCE WITH MY WIFE, AND IT WAS GOING FROM BAD TO 2809 01:17:25,741 --> 01:17:26,607 AND IT WAS GOING FROM BAD TO WORSE. 2810 01:17:26,609 --> 01:17:27,675 WORSE. I WAS LOSING MORE AND MORE TIME 2811 01:17:27,877 --> 01:17:30,311 I WAS LOSING MORE AND MORE TIME WITH THE KIDS. 2812 01:17:30,513 --> 01:17:33,981 WITH THE KIDS. IT WAS GETTING MORE AND MORE 2813 01:17:34,183 --> 01:17:37,685 IT WAS GETTING MORE AND MORE CONTENTIOUS. 2814 01:17:37,887 --> 01:17:41,389 CONTENTIOUS. AND I WAS JUST AT A BREAKING 2815 01:17:41,591 --> 01:17:42,923 AND I WAS JUST AT A BREAKING POINT. 2816 01:17:43,125 --> 01:17:44,525 POINT. SO I -- 2006, IN THE SPRING, I 2817 01:17:44,727 --> 01:17:45,593 SO I -- 2006, IN THE SPRING, I TALKED WITH MY -- MY BROTHER 2818 01:17:45,795 --> 01:17:47,795 TALKED WITH MY -- MY BROTHER OKAY TO CALL HIM BO? 2819 01:17:47,997 --> 01:17:48,763 OKAY TO CALL HIM BO? OKAY, I TALKED WITH BO 2820 01:17:48,965 --> 01:17:50,331 OKAY, I TALKED WITH BO >> Reporter: AND THEN HIS 2821 01:17:50,533 --> 01:17:51,899 >> Reporter: AND THEN HIS CONFESSION TOOK A SHARP TURN 2822 01:17:52,101 --> 01:17:54,535 CONFESSION TOOK A SHARP TURN >> I ASKED HIM WHAT DID HE THINK 2823 01:17:54,737 --> 01:17:55,603 >> I ASKED HIM WHAT DID HE THINK THE ODDS WERE THAT HE COULD GET 2824 01:17:55,805 --> 01:17:58,739 THE ODDS WERE THAT HE COULD GET AWAY WITH KILLING HER. 2825 01:17:58,941 --> 01:18:00,441 AWAY WITH KILLING HER. AND HE SAID, "WELL, THEY WERE 2826 01:18:00,643 --> 01:18:01,909 AND HE SAID, "WELL, THEY WERE BETTER THAN HALF." 2827 01:18:02,111 --> 01:18:05,880 BETTER THAN HALF." AND AT THAT POINT, I MADE A BAD 2828 01:18:06,082 --> 01:18:07,715 AND AT THAT POINT, I MADE A BAD DECISION 2829 01:18:07,917 --> 01:18:10,351 DECISION >> MIKE PAGEL PLEADS GUILTY BUT 2830 01:18:10,553 --> 01:18:12,486 >> MIKE PAGEL PLEADS GUILTY BUT SAYS, "I DIDN'T KILL MY WIFE 2831 01:18:12,688 --> 01:18:14,055 SAYS, "I DIDN'T KILL MY WIFE MY BROTHER DID." 2832 01:18:14,257 --> 01:18:15,623 MY BROTHER DID." >> WE AGREED ON, UH, 2833 01:18:15,825 --> 01:18:17,758 >> WE AGREED ON, UH, $100,000 FOR HIM TO -- TO MURDER 2834 01:18:17,960 --> 01:18:19,360 $100,000 FOR HIM TO -- TO MURDER RENEE. 2835 01:18:19,562 --> 01:18:20,394 RENEE. >> Reporter: IT WAS QUITE A 2836 01:18:20,596 --> 01:18:21,996 >> Reporter: IT WAS QUITE A STORY, A BOMBSHELL DROPPED ONTO 2837 01:18:22,198 --> 01:18:23,030 STORY, A BOMBSHELL DROPPED ONTO WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A CLOSED 2838 01:18:23,232 --> 01:18:24,598 WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A CLOSED CASE 2839 01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:25,666 CASE THE ONLY TROUBLE WAS, NO ONE 2840 01:18:25,868 --> 01:18:28,302 THE ONLY TROUBLE WAS, NO ONE BELIEVED IT. 2841 01:18:28,504 --> 01:18:29,904 BELIEVED IT. >> WHEN WE GOT TO COURT AND 2842 01:18:30,106 --> 01:18:31,238 >> WHEN WE GOT TO COURT AND LISTENED TO HIM TELL THIS STORY 2843 01:18:31,440 --> 01:18:32,540 LISTENED TO HIM TELL THIS STORY ABOUT HOW HE HAD HIRED HIS 2844 01:18:32,742 --> 01:18:34,675 ABOUT HOW HE HAD HIRED HIS BROTHER AND HIS BROTHER'S THE 2845 01:18:34,677 --> 01:18:36,243 BROTHER AND HIS BROTHER'S THE ONE THAT ACTUALLY KILLED RENEE, 2846 01:18:36,445 --> 01:18:40,981 ONE THAT ACTUALLY KILLED RENEE, THERE WAS JUST A LEVEL OF 2847 01:18:41,183 --> 01:18:43,217 THERE WAS JUST A LEVEL OF DISBELIEF, A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF 2848 01:18:43,419 --> 01:18:45,319 DISBELIEF, A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF KIND OF DISGUST, LIKE, COME ON 2849 01:18:45,521 --> 01:18:46,387 KIND OF DISGUST, LIKE, COME ON REALLY 2850 01:18:46,589 --> 01:18:47,455 REALLY >> Reporter: DO YOU STILL NOW 2851 01:18:47,657 --> 01:18:48,689 >> Reporter: DO YOU STILL NOW HAVE TO INVESTIGATE TO BE SURE 2852 01:18:48,691 --> 01:18:50,091 HAVE TO INVESTIGATE TO BE SURE THAT THE REAL KILLER ISN'T 2853 01:18:50,293 --> 01:18:51,158 THAT THE REAL KILLER ISN'T WALKING AROUND 2854 01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:52,727 WALKING AROUND >> ABSOLUTELY. 2855 01:18:52,929 --> 01:18:54,862 >> ABSOLUTELY. WE SPENT WEEKS AND WEEKS DIGGING 2856 01:18:55,064 --> 01:18:56,964 WE SPENT WEEKS AND WEEKS DIGGING INTO ALL THESE CLAIMS THAT HE 2857 01:18:57,166 --> 01:18:59,066 INTO ALL THESE CLAIMS THAT HE MADE, BUT WE NEVER FOUND 2858 01:18:59,268 --> 01:19:00,968 MADE, BUT WE NEVER FOUND ANYTHING AT ALL THAT POINTED 2859 01:19:01,170 --> 01:19:02,236 ANYTHING AT ALL THAT POINTED TOWARD BO BEING INVOLVED 2860 01:19:02,438 --> 01:19:03,804 TOWARD BO BEING INVOLVED >> Reporter: BO DENIED ANY 2861 01:19:04,006 --> 01:19:05,372 >> Reporter: BO DENIED ANY INVOLVEMENT IN RENEE'S MURDER, 2862 01:19:05,574 --> 01:19:08,008 INVOLVEMENT IN RENEE'S MURDER, AND INVESTIGATORS CONCLUDED 2863 01:19:08,210 --> 01:19:10,144 AND INVESTIGATORS CONCLUDED MICHAEL HAD ACTED ALONE. 2864 01:19:10,346 --> 01:19:11,178 MICHAEL HAD ACTED ALONE. >> IT'S REALLY DESPICABLE THAT 2865 01:19:11,380 --> 01:19:12,213 >> IT'S REALLY DESPICABLE THAT HE COULDN'T TAKE ACCOUNTABILITY, 2866 01:19:12,415 --> 01:19:13,814 HE COULDN'T TAKE ACCOUNTABILITY, MAN UP, TELL US WHAT YOU REALLY 2867 01:19:14,016 --> 01:19:14,849 MAN UP, TELL US WHAT YOU REALLY DID DO 2868 01:19:15,051 --> 01:19:18,085 DID DO IT CERTAINLY IS GONNA MAKE LIFE 2869 01:19:18,287 --> 01:19:20,721 IT CERTAINLY IS GONNA MAKE LIFE A LOT EASIER FOR THOSE OF US 2870 01:19:20,723 --> 01:19:21,322 A LOT EASIER FOR THOSE OF US TRYING TO MOVE FORWARD, TRYING 2871 01:19:21,524 --> 01:19:21,889 TRYING TO MOVE FORWARD, TRYING TO FIND FORGIVENESS, IF YOU 2872 01:19:22,091 --> 01:19:23,524 TO FIND FORGIVENESS, IF YOU COULD JUST BLOODY TELL THE 2873 01:19:23,726 --> 01:19:24,759 COULD JUST BLOODY TELL THE TRUTH. 2874 01:19:24,961 --> 01:19:25,392 TRUTH. >> Reporter: DID YOU BELIEVE HIS 2875 01:19:25,594 --> 01:19:26,160 >> Reporter: DID YOU BELIEVE HIS STORY THAT HIS BROTHER HAD 2876 01:19:26,362 --> 01:19:27,228 STORY THAT HIS BROTHER HAD HELPED HIM 2877 01:19:27,430 --> 01:19:28,829 HELPED HIM >> LIKE I SAID, IT WAS SOMETHING 2878 01:19:29,031 --> 01:19:30,397 >> LIKE I SAID, IT WAS SOMETHING THAT I JUST DECIDED TO REMAIN 2879 01:19:30,599 --> 01:19:31,966 THAT I JUST DECIDED TO REMAIN NEUTRAL ON 2880 01:19:32,168 --> 01:19:33,567 NEUTRAL ON >> Reporter: FOR SARAH, IT WAS A 2881 01:19:33,769 --> 01:19:35,669 >> Reporter: FOR SARAH, IT WAS A LOT TO ABSORB. 2882 01:19:35,871 --> 01:19:37,271 LOT TO ABSORB. EVEN WITH HER FATHER CHANGING 2883 01:19:37,473 --> 01:19:38,839 EVEN WITH HER FATHER CHANGING HIS STORY, MICHAEL HAD ADMITTED 2884 01:19:39,041 --> 01:19:41,108 HIS STORY, MICHAEL HAD ADMITTED HE WANTED HER MOTHER DEAD, AND 2885 01:19:41,310 --> 01:19:42,009 HE WANTED HER MOTHER DEAD, AND WAS GOING TO PRISON FOR HER 2886 01:19:42,211 --> 01:19:43,043 WAS GOING TO PRISON FOR HER MURDER 2887 01:19:43,245 --> 01:19:45,679 MURDER HOW DID YOU LEAVE THAT 2888 01:19:45,881 --> 01:19:47,782 HOW DID YOU LEAVE THAT CONVERSATION FEELING AFTER YOU 2889 01:19:47,984 --> 01:19:48,849 CONVERSATION FEELING AFTER YOU HAD SPOKEN TO YOUR DAD 2890 01:19:49,051 --> 01:19:49,884 HAD SPOKEN TO YOUR DAD IT'S A CONVERSATION THAT, LIKE, 2891 01:19:50,086 --> 01:19:51,452 IT'S A CONVERSATION THAT, LIKE, ALMOST NO ONE HAS WITH THEIR 2892 01:19:51,654 --> 01:19:54,088 ALMOST NO ONE HAS WITH THEIR PARENT 2893 01:19:54,290 --> 01:19:56,223 PARENT >> I MEAN, HEARTBROKEN 2894 01:19:56,425 --> 01:19:58,058 >> I MEAN, HEARTBROKEN >> Reporter: YEAH. 2895 01:19:58,260 --> 01:19:58,826 >> Reporter: YEAH. AND DID YOU -- DID YOU TELL HIM, 2896 01:19:59,028 --> 01:20:00,961 AND DID YOU -- DID YOU TELL HIM, "I WILL STAND BY YOU"? 2897 01:20:01,163 --> 01:20:01,495 "I WILL STAND BY YOU"? >> I SAID I'D FORGIVE HIM. 2898 01:20:01,697 --> 01:20:02,563 >> I SAID I'D FORGIVE HIM. >> Reporter: FORGIVE HIM 2899 01:20:02,765 --> 01:20:04,465 >> Reporter: FORGIVE HIM 'CAUSE YOU STILL HAVE A 2900 01:20:04,667 --> 01:20:05,199 'CAUSE YOU STILL HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM, RIGHT 2901 01:20:05,401 --> 01:20:08,402 RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM, RIGHT >> YEAH, I DO. 2902 01:20:08,604 --> 01:20:12,139 >> YEAH, I DO. >> Reporter: HOW ARE YOU ABLE TO 2903 01:20:12,341 --> 01:20:13,908 >> Reporter: HOW ARE YOU ABLE TO KEEP THAT INTACT 2904 01:20:14,110 --> 01:20:15,309 KEEP THAT INTACT >> I THINK HE WAS ALWAYS MY DAD. 2905 01:20:15,511 --> 01:20:19,013 >> I THINK HE WAS ALWAYS MY DAD. YOU KNOW, I -- I NEVER SAW THAT 2906 01:20:19,215 --> 01:20:20,581 YOU KNOW, I -- I NEVER SAW THAT SIDE OF HIM. 2907 01:20:20,783 --> 01:20:22,183 SIDE OF HIM. AND EVEN IF THAT WAS SOMETHING 2908 01:20:22,385 --> 01:20:23,250 AND EVEN IF THAT WAS SOMETHING HE DID THAT SOME -- I MEAN, 2909 01:20:23,452 --> 01:20:24,819 HE DID THAT SOME -- I MEAN, EVERYONE DESERVES TO BE 2910 01:20:25,021 --> 01:20:26,420 EVERYONE DESERVES TO BE FORGIVEN 2911 01:20:26,622 --> 01:20:30,090 FORGIVEN AND IT WAS SOMETHING THAT HE 2912 01:20:30,292 --> 01:20:31,659 AND IT WAS SOMETHING THAT HE APOLOGIZED 2913 01:20:31,861 --> 01:20:33,260 APOLOGIZED HE SINCERELY FELT LIKE HE KNEW 2914 01:20:33,462 --> 01:20:35,362 HE SINCERELY FELT LIKE HE KNEW HE MADE A MISTAKE. 2915 01:20:35,564 --> 01:20:38,432 HE MADE A MISTAKE. HE KNEW IT WAS THE WORST THING 2916 01:20:38,634 --> 01:20:40,534 HE KNEW IT WAS THE WORST THING HE COULD'VE DONE TO US AND FOR 2917 01:20:40,736 --> 01:20:42,136 HE COULD'VE DONE TO US AND FOR US, AND HE KNEW THAT 2918 01:20:42,338 --> 01:20:43,704 US, AND HE KNEW THAT AND HE ADMITTED THAT 2919 01:20:43,906 --> 01:20:45,806 AND HE ADMITTED THAT BUT THAT DOESN'T TAKE AWAY THE 2920 01:20:46,008 --> 01:20:49,276 BUT THAT DOESN'T TAKE AWAY THE FACT THAT HE'S MY DAD. 2921 01:20:49,478 --> 01:20:50,377 FACT THAT HE'S MY DAD. I THINK GROWING UP WITH A SINGLE 2922 01:20:50,579 --> 01:20:52,780 I THINK GROWING UP WITH A SINGLE PARENT, YOU REALLY HANG ON TO 2923 01:20:52,982 --> 01:20:53,247 PARENT, YOU REALLY HANG ON TO THE ONE THAT YOU HAVE. 2924 01:20:53,449 --> 01:20:56,750 THE ONE THAT YOU HAVE. AND I WOULDN'T WANT TO LOSE HIM 2925 01:20:56,952 --> 01:20:58,319 AND I WOULDN'T WANT TO LOSE HIM FOR ANYTHING 2926 01:20:58,521 --> 01:21:00,988 FOR ANYTHING >> Reporter: AT HIS SENTENCING 2927 01:21:01,190 --> 01:21:04,158 >> Reporter: AT HIS SENTENCING FIVE MONTHS LATER, MICHAEL 2928 01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:05,226 FIVE MONTHS LATER, MICHAEL ADDRESSED HIS CHILDREN 2929 01:21:05,428 --> 01:21:06,293 ADDRESSED HIS CHILDREN >> AND I ASK GOD TO FORGIVE ME 2930 01:21:06,495 --> 01:21:07,895 >> AND I ASK GOD TO FORGIVE ME AND GIVE ALL -- GIVE US ALL THE 2931 01:21:08,097 --> 01:21:09,463 AND GIVE ALL -- GIVE US ALL THE STRENGTH TO ENDURE THE 2932 01:21:09,665 --> 01:21:11,065 STRENGTH TO ENDURE THE CONSEQUENCES 2933 01:21:11,267 --> 01:21:14,235 CONSEQUENCES SARAH, JOEL, AND HANNAH, YOUR 2934 01:21:14,437 --> 01:21:15,903 SARAH, JOEL, AND HANNAH, YOUR MOM LOVED YOU VERY MUCH AND 2935 01:21:16,105 --> 01:21:17,471 MOM LOVED YOU VERY MUCH AND WOULD BE VERY PROUD TO SEE HOW 2936 01:21:17,673 --> 01:21:19,006 WOULD BE VERY PROUD TO SEE HOW WELL HER CHILDREN HAVE GROWN 2937 01:21:19,208 --> 01:21:21,642 WELL HER CHILDREN HAVE GROWN >> Reporter: SARAH WROTE A 2938 01:21:21,844 --> 01:21:24,311 >> Reporter: SARAH WROTE A LETTER TO THE COURT. 2939 01:21:24,513 --> 01:21:26,947 LETTER TO THE COURT. >> I JUST WANTED TO GET ACROSS 2940 01:21:27,149 --> 01:21:27,982 >> I JUST WANTED TO GET ACROSS THAT HE WASN'T JUST THE PERSON 2941 01:21:28,184 --> 01:21:29,550 THAT HE WASN'T JUST THE PERSON WHO WAS INVOLVED IN HER DEATH. 2942 01:21:29,752 --> 01:21:30,618 WHO WAS INVOLVED IN HER DEATH. HE WAS THE ONE THAT RAISED US. 2943 01:21:30,820 --> 01:21:32,186 HE WAS THE ONE THAT RAISED US. AND THE PEOPLE THAT WE ARE TODAY 2944 01:21:32,388 --> 01:21:33,254 AND THE PEOPLE THAT WE ARE TODAY WE ARE BECAUSE OF HIM. 2945 01:21:33,456 --> 01:21:34,622 WE ARE BECAUSE OF HIM. IT IS A VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION 2946 01:21:34,824 --> 01:21:35,890 IT IS A VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION TO UNDERSTAND BEING THE ONE IN 2947 01:21:36,092 --> 01:21:36,957 TO UNDERSTAND BEING THE ONE IN THE MIDDLE OF BOTH SIDES OF THAT 2948 01:21:37,159 --> 01:21:38,559 THE MIDDLE OF BOTH SIDES OF THAT STORY. 2949 01:21:38,761 --> 01:21:41,161 STORY. AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK 2950 01:21:41,363 --> 01:21:42,229 AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK ONLY WE CAN REALLY UNDERSTAND. 2951 01:21:42,431 --> 01:21:46,967 ONLY WE CAN REALLY UNDERSTAND. AND SO NO ONE HAS PASSED 2952 01:21:47,169 --> 01:21:48,569 AND SO NO ONE HAS PASSED JUDGMENT ON THAT 2953 01:21:48,771 --> 01:21:50,137 JUDGMENT ON THAT >> Reporter: THE FRIENDS WHO 2954 01:21:50,339 --> 01:21:52,072 >> Reporter: THE FRIENDS WHO FOUGHT SO LONG AND HARD STILL 2955 01:21:52,274 --> 01:21:53,841 FOUGHT SO LONG AND HARD STILL FEEL THE LOSS OF RENEE 2956 01:21:54,043 --> 01:21:58,612 FEEL THE LOSS OF RENEE >> A BEAUTIFUL PERSON WAS TAKEN 2957 01:21:58,814 --> 01:22:00,214 >> A BEAUTIFUL PERSON WAS TAKEN FROM -- FROM THIS WORLD. 2958 01:22:00,416 --> 01:22:01,282 FROM -- FROM THIS WORLD. >> WHEN SHE DIED, I GENUINELY 2959 01:22:01,484 --> 01:22:03,384 >> WHEN SHE DIED, I GENUINELY AND TRULY FELT LIKE A PIECE OF 2960 01:22:03,586 --> 01:22:05,486 AND TRULY FELT LIKE A PIECE OF ME DIED AS WELL. 2961 01:22:05,688 --> 01:22:07,054 ME DIED AS WELL. >> Reporter: SARAH SAYS THE 2962 01:22:07,256 --> 01:22:08,355 >> Reporter: SARAH SAYS THE COMMITTED EFFORT BY SO MANY TO 2963 01:22:08,557 --> 01:22:10,257 COMMITTED EFFORT BY SO MANY TO SOLVE THE CASE IS A TESTAMENT TO 2964 01:22:10,459 --> 01:22:11,825 SOLVE THE CASE IS A TESTAMENT TO HER MOTHER'S CHARACTER 2965 01:22:12,027 --> 01:22:13,928 HER MOTHER'S CHARACTER >> SHE HAD A BEAUTIFUL 2966 01:22:14,130 --> 01:22:15,496 >> SHE HAD A BEAUTIFUL PERSONALITY THAT CLEARLY SPEAKS. 2967 01:22:15,698 --> 01:22:18,265 PERSONALITY THAT CLEARLY SPEAKS. I MEAN, SO MANY PEOPLE CARE 2968 01:22:18,467 --> 01:22:18,866 I MEAN, SO MANY PEOPLE CARE ABOUT HER TODAY AND, YOU KNOW, 2969 01:22:19,068 --> 01:22:20,234 ABOUT HER TODAY AND, YOU KNOW, THE EFFORTS THAT HER FRIENDS PUT 2970 01:22:20,436 --> 01:22:21,302 THE EFFORTS THAT HER FRIENDS PUT IN OVER THE YEARS WHILE, YOU 2971 01:22:21,504 --> 01:22:24,738 IN OVER THE YEARS WHILE, YOU KNOW, I -- I KINDA FELT LIKE 2972 01:22:24,940 --> 01:22:26,840 KNOW, I -- I KINDA FELT LIKE COLLATERAL DAMAGE OF SOME OF 2973 01:22:27,042 --> 01:22:28,108 COLLATERAL DAMAGE OF SOME OF THAT, IT WAS -- IT WAS FOR HER 2974 01:22:28,310 --> 01:22:28,976 THAT, IT WAS -- IT WAS FOR HER AND IT WAS FOR JUSTICE FOR HER 2975 01:22:29,178 --> 01:22:29,510 AND IT WAS FOR JUSTICE FOR HER AND I UNDERSTAND THAT AND 2976 01:22:29,712 --> 01:22:31,378 AND I UNDERSTAND THAT AND APPRECIATE THAT. 2977 01:22:31,580 --> 01:22:37,818 APPRECIATE THAT. AND I THINK THAT SPEAKS TO THE 2978 01:22:38,020 --> 01:22:38,686 AND I THINK THAT SPEAKS TO THE TYPE OF PERSON SHE WAS 2979 01:22:38,888 --> 01:22:41,322 TYPE OF PERSON SHE WAS >> THAT'S ALL FOR THIS EDITION 2980 01:22:41,524 --> 01:22:41,855 >> THAT'S ALL FOR THIS EDITION OF "DATELINE." 2981 01:22:42,057 --> 01:22:42,923 OF "DATELINE." WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT FRIDAY 2982 01:22:42,925 --> 01:22:43,958 WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT FRIDAY AT 9:00, 8:00 CENTRAL. 2983 01:22:44,160 --> 01:22:45,025 AT 9:00, 8:00 CENTRAL. AND, OF COURSE, I'LL SEE YOU 2984 01:22:45,227 --> 01:22:46,627 AND, OF COURSE, I'LL SEE YOU EACH WEEKNIGHT FOR "NBC NIGHTLY 2985 01:22:46,829 --> 01:22:47,661 EACH WEEKNIGHT FOR "NBC NIGHTLY NEWS." 2986 01:22:47,863 --> 01:22:48,696 NEWS." I'M LESTER HOLT. 2987 01:22:48,898 --> 01:22:51,031 I'M LESTER HOLT. FOR ALL OF US AT N