1 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:19,335 I'm going to start off by showing you a photograph of Coleen Greenwood 2 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,775 and somebody by the name of James Scott. 3 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,015 Do you accept that that's you? 4 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,095 Were you in a relationship with Coleen? 5 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:35,295 Did you tell Coleen that you were a fireman? 6 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,095 In March 2015, she fell pregnant. 7 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:41,775 Are you the father of the child? 8 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,535 It's time to own up and put your hands up to what you've clone. 9 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,695 REPORTER: A woman from the north-east was duped by a man 10 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,615 she met online who lied about his identity. 11 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:54,895 James Scott was a very charismatic man. 12 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:58,495 It was almost like a dream. 13 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:01,735 He had the wool over everybody's eyes. 14 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:05,255 The lengths he went to, it was...it was just incredible. 15 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,535 No-one could be prepared for what he did. 16 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:10,295 No-one. 17 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:24,975 Right, 0|<. 18 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:35,055 Back in 2014, I was a divorced mum of two girls. 19 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,375 I'd been married for 17 years, 20 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,575 so being single again was quite a new experience. 21 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:46,655 Some of my friends had said, 22 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,415 "Oh, you know, why don't you try a dating website, 23 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:50,975 "dip your toe back in the water?" 24 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,295 Ancl I thought, "You know, it might be nice to meet someone, 25 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:54,375 "go on a few dates." 26 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,015 I don't think I've particularly got a type, 27 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,415 just somebody that would make me laugh, 28 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,375 that was kind, family-orientated. 29 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:05,975 That's really important. 30 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,895 You don't have to have bulging muscles and tattoos 31 00:02:08,920 --> 00:02:11,655 and a designer beard. 32 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:13,335 It's all about being the nice guy. 33 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,855 The world of dating, since I'd previously dated, had changed. 34 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,135 I was quite unnerved by it. 35 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,375 A lot of pictures of men with fish, for some bizarre reason. 36 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,215 Quite a few men that I would say were economical with the truth 37 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,535 about how tall they potentially were. 38 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:40,615 All sorts. 39 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,575 Sunday afternoon, thought I'd check my messages, 40 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:46,815 and the particular one pinged up. 41 00:02:48,640 --> 00:02:50,855 "Firefighterj has messaged you." 42 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,575 Didn't have a photograph on it, but he said, because of his job 43 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,175 as a firefighter, it was frowned upon somewhat 44 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,495 to have your pictures out there, because of that job, 45 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:04,775 and it sounded feasible. 46 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:06,575 And, as soon as I asked him for some photographs, 47 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:08,935 he sent me probably five or six photos through. 48 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:13,415 So, you know, there was no reason to...to ask any more questions 49 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:14,615 as to why he hadn't. 50 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,255 I first heard about James at work one day. 51 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,175 Coleen just said, "Oh, there's this guy I've been chatting to 52 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:23,895 "online, and he seems really nice." 53 00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:26,415 One afternoon at work, he messaged my phone. 54 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:31,575 I asked my sister, cos I worked with her, and she was like, 55 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:33,975 "Why not? What have you got to lose?" 56 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,855 He did a lot of the talking, but the time flew past. 57 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,055 He talked a lot about his two daughters. 58 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:51,455 A real doting father, which was a massive tick for me. 59 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:53,255 You could tell he was really passionate 60 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,095 about being a firefighter. 61 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,095 Throughout the relationship, he would turn up after shift 62 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,935 in his fire gear, which was really nice. 63 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,735 You'd smell it as he came in the house, the smell of smoke. 64 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:11,095 It was what defined him, really. 65 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:12,975 One instance, he'd saved a little boy. 66 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:17,735 He'd jumped out of a burning building 67 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,735 with a little boy in his arms, broken his back in the process. 68 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,455 Ancl he had this card from the little boy that he'd made 69 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,935 specially for him, calling him his hero. 70 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:31,615 It made your heart swell. 71 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,535 I used to keep this on my desk at work. 72 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,175 I could look at it and think, "Well, I might not be able to see him today 73 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,535 "cos he's working, but he's helping people." 74 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:44,855 Dating a firefighter, it's really nice, 75 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,615 but it does come with some negatives as well. 76 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,855 There'll be times that dates will be cut short, 77 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,775 or there'll be extra shifts they have to go in on. 78 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,055 I understood that. I appreciated that. 79 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:02,655 He was thoughtful. 80 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:04,535 He would send me lovely text messages. 81 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,375 He was sweet and he was kind, 82 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:12,895 and he made you feel cherished. 83 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,255 We didn't see that much of each other 84 00:05:18,280 --> 00:05:20,295 because of his shift patterns. 85 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,215 We didn't spend many full nights together. 86 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:32,295 But that was fine by me. 87 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,815 I was quite happy to split my time with him, 88 00:05:34,840 --> 00:05:36,535 with my girls, with my friends. 89 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,375 My girls were actually asking to meet him. 90 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,975 He's got a boyish charm about him, I'd say. 91 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,095 Ancl I remember that, after them initially meeting him, saying, 92 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:48,495 "Yeah, he's a good guy, Mum." 93 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:50,815 "Yeah, we'd be happy for you to date him." 94 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:04,535 I knew a lot about his girls. 95 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,775 I'd saw so many pictures. 96 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,135 I would hear him on the phone at times to his girls, 97 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:13,495 talking to them. 98 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:24,575 James's girls were clue to move abroad to the States, to Texas, 99 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:25,815 with james's ex-wife. 100 00:06:25,840 --> 00:06:27,735 He was devastated and he was sad. 101 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:31,575 Seeing James so upset resonated with me 102 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:33,935 because if I thought my girls were going to move 103 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,495 to the other side of the world, it would tear my heart out, 104 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:38,735 so I really felt for him. 105 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,175 My sister and I are so close. 106 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,455 Growing up, we were inseparable. 107 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:55,455 She's been with me since the womb, you know? 108 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:56,775 We came into the world together 109 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,055 and you can't get any closer than that, really. 110 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,735 We work together, we socialise together. 111 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,175 It was really important to me that Karen liked James. 112 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,655 We went out and I took James to meet my sister and her boyfriend 113 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:17,975 at the time, Ryan, who's now her husband. 114 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:19,295 So, the first time I metjames, 115 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:20,975 we were sitting having a pub quiz, 116 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:24,455 and he bounded in, you know, making an entrance. 117 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,215 Everybody turned to look. 118 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:31,175 In he came, big and loud, and sat down with Karen and I. 119 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,575 James Scott was a very charismatic man. 120 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,095 He would go into a room and, within five minutes, 121 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,095 everyone would be his best friend. 122 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,815 You couldn't help but be intoxicated by it because it was just charming. 123 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,375 We'd been dating for a few months. 124 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,695 He'd met my family. We were going on nice clays out. 125 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,055 At that point, I realised that I loved him 126 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:57,575 and couldn't imagine him not being a part, a big part, of my life. 127 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,295 Our relationship was going from strength to strength. 128 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:09,615 We got on. We were having a nice time. 129 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,855 Neither of us ever talked about 130 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,895 wanting to have any more children. Ancl quite...quite the opposite. 131 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,575 I'd had quite a difficult delivery with my last child, 132 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:21,895 and more children weren't on the agenda for me, 133 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:23,175 and he said the same. 134 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,095 We were careful but, obviously, things happen, 135 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:27,735 and we can't have been careful enough. 136 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:29,415 But I found out I was pregnant. 137 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:31,935 She was really torn. 138 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:33,295 She didn't know what to do, 139 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,215 but she knew that it wasn't the right time in her life 140 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:36,975 to have another baby. 141 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:40,895 I decided, and James totally backed me and agreed, 142 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:42,575 that I should get a termination. 143 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,495 SHE SIGHS WHISPERS: Sorry... 144 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:52,375 This is the one bit that really upsets me. 145 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:53,815 Sorry. 146 00:08:56,560 --> 00:08:57,535 I'm so sorry. 147 00:08:58,600 --> 00:08:59,695 Sorry. 148 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,535 I didn't think I'd do this. 149 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,775 It was something we should've been there to support each other. 150 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:14,455 But he had to... 151 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:16,375 He had a shift and he couldn't get out of it, 152 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:20,775 so he went to work and I stayed alone that night, 153 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:25,095 erm...when it happened and, erm, the baby was no more. 154 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,895 After the termination, I was really fearful. 155 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,335 I didn't want to have any sort of physical relationship. 156 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,095 I couldn't put myself through another termination. 157 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,335 I just couldn't have clone it. 158 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,935 So, James decided that he should get a vasectomy, 159 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,375 and then we wouldn't ever have to face that problem 160 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:58,975 ever happening again. 161 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,495 After the procedure, he was in a bit of discomfort. 162 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,215 He had a little bit of bruising down below. 163 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:13,175 It was so many weeks later that he showed me, on his phone, 164 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,135 the results of a medical report in his name, 165 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,775 showing that he had no sperm count. 166 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:21,375 There was no fear any more, 167 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,735 so we could start our relationship again. 168 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:38,695 It was a lovely evening, but I just...didn't feel right. 169 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:44,135 I took Karen to one side and said, This sounds really stupid, 170 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,135 "but I think I might be pregnant." 171 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,455 And she hooted with laughter. 172 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:50,295 "You've had a dodgy prawn in your linguine. 173 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,575 "That's all it is - don't worry about it." 174 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,055 James went to the little Tesco's at the bottom of the street 175 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,575 and got a pregnancy test for me. 176 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,935 Went into the loo, did the test. 177 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,735 Coleen came back from the toilets and she... 178 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:08,135 She looked ashen-faced. 179 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,415 She, you know, she just looked in shock. 180 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,655 And she sat down at the table 181 00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:16,255 and said, "|'m pregnant." 182 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:24,935 I did four more tests that evening. 183 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,135 It just couldn't...couldn't be right. 184 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:35,535 But, then, five tests couldn't be wrong, could they? 185 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:39,775 I just remember saying to James, 186 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,095 "Oh, my God, everyone's going to think 187 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:43,175 "I've cheated on you." 188 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:44,975 He just said, "I know you wouldn't do that. 189 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,535 "You know, I trust you implicitly." 190 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,135 I thought to myself, "What an amazing guy." 191 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,455 He wouldn't... It wouldn't even cross his mind 192 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,015 that I'd be unfaithful to him. 193 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:04,415 He said that every one in so many vasectomies failed. 194 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,015 And...he went on to say that... 195 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:10,135 Sorry. 196 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:15,375 He went on to say that it was the original baby. 197 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,495 We'd made a mistake. It was the original baby coming back 198 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:22,855 because it... We weren't... We shouldn't have clone what we did. 199 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,775 That, erm, it was a gift from God. 200 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:30,935 I was 41 years old. 201 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,255 I'd had a difficult pregnancy previously. 202 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,935 I didn't want any more children. 203 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,855 But I'd got no choice, cos I couldn't... 204 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,255 I couldn't not go through with it. 205 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,055 So, when Coleen fell pregnant again, 206 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,935 I thought, "The vasectomy is final. What's going on here?" 207 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,375 It was James and my second Christmas together, 208 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:19,935 and there was just a funny atmosphere in the room. 209 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,455 The girls were a little bit giddier than normal. 210 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,415 Ancl do you know when you think "There's something going on here 211 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:26,735 "but I don't know what it is"? 212 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,455 Ancl then James is saying, "Oh, does that tree look a bit odd?" 213 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,375 Ancl there was a little black book sitting in the branches. 214 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,695 It said "Coleen Scott's Wedding Diary" 215 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:37,615 on the front of the little book. 216 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:39,975 Ancl James turned around and I looked at him, 217 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,815 and he just said, "Will you marry me?" 218 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,775 It turned out he'd already been and spoken to my sister 219 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:52,215 and my mum, and this book had...the whole wedding planned. 220 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,615 Ancl you opened one, it would say, 221 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,055 "Wedding cake tasting," and there'd be one, 222 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:01,095 "Initial dress fitting," and, "Meet the wedding planner," 223 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:02,735 and all the way through to 224 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,855 "Marry me at this time and date at Wyo yard Hall," 225 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:10,495 and then the honeymoon to Vegas and the hotel we were stopping at. 226 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,335 The whole wedding was arranged. 227 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,335 In a family full of women - grandmother, mother, daughters - 228 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,655 to have another... LAUGHING: ..another man, 229 00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:20,615 it was a nice change. 230 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:22,975 He was such a big part of our lives. We loved him. 231 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,335 And what could be better than them getting married? 232 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:43,095 It was a life-and-death moment for herself and for the baby. 233 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:49,655 Doors were being flung open. 234 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:51,175 I was being whizzed down a corridor. 235 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,655 There's just the lights flashing past me. 236 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:56,215 It's just utter chaos. 237 00:14:58,040 --> 00:14:59,895 I think, really, I was just selfishly scared 238 00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:01,535 I was going to lose my twin. 239 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,455 It was just...awful. 240 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:18,615 I remember waking up and my sister being beside me at the bed. 241 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,015 I don't know where James was at this point. 242 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,295 The first thing I said to Karen was, "Where's my baby?" 243 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,055 "Just calm down. He's OK. 244 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,535 "They've taken him to special care baby unit. 245 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:32,455 "He's going to be all right." 246 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,615 Within maybe another week, 247 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,895 they discharged him back home, which was...amazing. 248 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,575 It was a really happy clay when we could finally 249 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:54,815 go and register Charlie's birth. 250 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,695 Proud there was... He was all legal, and in this world and safe. 251 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,935 Yeah, it was a fantastic clay. 252 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,095 This is actually Charlie's birth certificate, 253 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,895 and it's got James Scott as the father. 254 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:16,495 Occupation, firefighter. 255 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,135 James was amazing with Charlie. 256 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:26,135 JAMES HICCU PS, BABY LAUGHS 257 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,055 The most doting clad. 258 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:30,855 He played with him. 259 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,775 The girls loved Charlie, and we were... 260 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,575 We were just a happy, settled family. 261 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,055 It was a really lovely, happy time. 262 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,375 Quite a while into our relationship, we decided to have a day out 263 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,655 and took a trip to Alton Towers. 264 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,335 We were waiting to go on one particular ride 265 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,735 when this guy came over to James, obviously knowing him, and said, 266 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,055 erm, "You all right, Wilson?" 267 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,655 And I'm thinking, "That's a weird thing to say." 268 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,215 So, I said, "That was odd. Why did he call you Wilson?" 269 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,015 He went, "Oh, it's been a firefighter." 270 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,455 "We all have nicknames for each other, so they used to always say, 271 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:15,135 "Where there's a will, there's a way. 272 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,815 "So, my nickname was Will, and he just said, 273 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:19,695 "'Will, you all right, Wilson?“ 274 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,055 As you would and I'm like, "All right. OK." 275 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:24,535 Ancl, both my daughter and I, perfect sense. 276 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:34,455 The run-up to the wedding, 277 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:38,335 I got swept up in the excitement of it all. 278 00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:42,055 James took me to meet Donna, the wedding planner. 279 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:46,455 Had a big folder all about suggestions and ideas, 280 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,375 and we discussed what I would like, 281 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,695 and how her and James would make this dream come true. 282 00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:59,815 One clay, I found James sitting on our bed. 283 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,575 He said he'd found a lump and he was scared. 284 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,295 We told him to make an appointment, to go to get it checked out. 285 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:16,095 I went along to the first appointment with him, 286 00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:19,175 and James said, "OK, I'll go in on my own." 287 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,015 He came out of that appointment. 288 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,495 He just said that the look on the doctor's face, 289 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:29,855 that he thought it wasn't going to be good news, 290 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,175 and he just had this feeling that it, you know, 291 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:33,575 it was going to be cancer. 292 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:37,295 I felt so scared for him. 293 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,335 I mean, he was such a good guy, 294 00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:41,975 and why did awful things to keep happening? 295 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,695 Getting married should be the happiest clay of your life, 296 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,975 and if you've got a potential cancer diagnosis hanging over your head... 297 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,455 We decided to...to put the wedding on hold. 298 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,095 They couldn't get married. How could they get married 299 00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:55,895 when this was hanging over their heads? 300 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:59,055 It made sense to me at the time that they did cancel that wedding. 301 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:07,495 He had an appointment, 302 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,775 not long afterwards, 303 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:10,975 at the Woodlands Hospital, 304 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,455 and he took Charlie's god mum, Yvonne, with him, 305 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:16,775 just for moral support. 306 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:17,935 I was at work, so James said, 307 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,295 "There's no point you sitting in the waiting room here," 308 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,255 and so Yvonne agreed and went setting off. 309 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,295 The skies had gone a bit dark and she thought, 310 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,855 "You know, it's going to pour down with rain," 311 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,615 so she decided to head back to the car, 312 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,215 and when she got back, James was sitting on the wall near the car. 313 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,175 So, she was quite surprised he was back so soon, 314 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,815 and he was just sat scrolling on his phone, 315 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,175 and Yvonne said, "Wow, you were quick." 316 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,055 You know, "Has your appointment been cancelled?" 317 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:44,855 Ancl he went, "Oh, no, no. It doesn't take long 318 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:46,495 "when they give you good news." 319 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,255 It had been a misdiagnosis that can look like a lump 320 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:53,815 in the position it was at. 321 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,855 So, after that, because everything was good, 322 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,615 James got straight back on to Donna, the wedding planner. 323 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:00,975 It was all back on again. 324 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,975 His mum, she was quite a successful sports agent 325 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,295 who lived in the south of France. 326 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:18,135 She'd calljames, and quite often he would take it on his iPad. 327 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,455 She'd be, "Hi, Coleen. Are you all right?" 328 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,175 Not long after Charlie was born, 329 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,615 his mum decided she would like to bequeath an early inheritance 330 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:26,815 to all her children. 331 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:28,775 James didn't say how much this was, 332 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:32,015 but he did imply it was, you know, generous. 333 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,375 I didn't realisejames's mum was quite as wealthy as she is. 334 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,135 And it was...it was a surprise to me 335 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,575 because I didn't really know much about his mum. 336 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:47,655 He was taking Coleen out for nice meals. 337 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:49,255 He was taken her away for weekends. 338 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,095 There was the spa at Ramside Hall. 339 00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:55,695 They certainly had a lovely lifestyle. 340 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,175 As time went on and the stories of the money, you know, 341 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,535 more money coming in from his mother, 342 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,215 the clays out would become more outlandish. 343 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,855 So, instead of going to watch a match in the stands, 344 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,095 we went to hospitality suites. 345 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,935 James had realised, obviously, I had these buy-to-let properties 346 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,935 of my own, and his mum owned a lot of different properties herself. 347 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,175 And Coleen, because she worked in property, could work from home 348 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,215 and, that way, she wouldn't be missing Charlie, 349 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,215 because Charlie would be around more with her. 350 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,895 It just seemed really, really great. 351 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,495 I was incredibly close to James. 352 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:42,855 He would come around and see me, we'd have a coffee. 353 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,895 And we'd just been chatting and he said, "Oh, my mum's got this idea." 354 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,975 She wanted to look after her son, her grandson and Coleen, 355 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,335 and was interested in opening a bar or a restaurant 356 00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:56,335 and giving it their family name, which was Scott. 357 00:21:56,360 --> 00:22:00,375 Karen had inherited some money when my clad had passed away 358 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,095 some years earlier. We both did. 359 00:22:02,120 --> 00:22:04,095 Karen still had hers. 360 00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:06,695 James never actually asked me to invest. 361 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,015 He just talked about it a lot. 362 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,175 And the fact of it being a family business - I'm in the family. 363 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:13,735 I wouldn't mind being in this. 364 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,135 This was an opportunity for Karen to take some of her inheritance 365 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,775 and invest it in a good business where she could work for herself. 366 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,775 So we went to the property. We viewed it. 367 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:25,695 We walked around inside, had a look. 368 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,455 All these brilliant ideas of what it would look like 369 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,495 and how they'd run it. Ancl it was just fantastic. 370 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,015 So, in total, I invested... 371 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,655 ...£55,000 in the businesses. 372 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:51,575 There was £25,000 at Scott's, 373 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,415 and then a further £5,000 for contingency, 374 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,735 for things going wrong, on top of that, 375 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,055 and then £25,000 into Gemini. 376 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:05,015 But that didn't touch on how much I actually invested in him. 377 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,815 And, because he was doing work on my properties, 378 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,175 and I was...| was giving him money to carry out works 379 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,535 on the properties, it was...it was everything I had. 380 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:23,535 When I first metjames back in 2016, I knew fairly little about him, 381 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,295 other than that he had these ambitious plans 382 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,095 and he really wanted to give opportunities 383 00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:32,215 to other small, local businesses. 384 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,535 I was really excited with giving me and Media Savvy the opportunity 385 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,495 to be part of that journey with him, 386 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,215 doing some work on branding and marketing stuff 387 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,535 for other companies related to gyms, 388 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,055 and also Coleen and Karen, 389 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,375 including this Gemini Properties website and branding. 390 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,135 Just thinking, "Well, if this is just the start of it, 391 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,575 "where could it go?" 392 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,215 He was a nice guy, down-to-earth, considering the millions 393 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,815 he had bankrolled to do these projects. 394 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,855 He'd approached me to do some videography work with this big, 395 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,335 grand Newcastle Quayside project. 396 00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:07,895 From a couple of business meetings, 397 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:12,815 to all of a sudden being invited to VIP boxes for Premier League 398 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,015 football matches and invited to his wedding. 399 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,375 Like, I'd only met him three or four times. 400 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,135 It was, it was a bit surreal in many, in many ways. 401 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,895 With At Scott's, things were not happening as quickly 402 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,335 as I would have liked. 403 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:36,255 There always seemed to be some reason that there was - problems 404 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,735 were cropping up or things had to be cancelled. 405 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:44,215 So I spoke to my sister and she was hurt and James 406 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,615 was just - he was absolutely 407 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,295 horrified that I'd, I, um, doubted him. 408 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,375 I felt absolutely wretched. 409 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,175 This is James. This is my sister's fiance. 410 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,535 He's part of our family. We love him. 411 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,855 But it was all my money in the world. 412 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:05,215 I had a lot invested in that. 413 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,575 If this didn't work out, then really, 414 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,055 I was up shit creek without a paddle. 415 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,215 I didn't even invoicejames for any of the work we'd clone, 416 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,295 until after significant amounts of bill had been sort of built 417 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,095 up by that point, but it was always like, oh, the accountant's got 418 00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:21,655 it at hand, um, abroad. 419 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,015 There was always something, but it was always believable 420 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,535 because we were still involved with all the colleagues. 421 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,415 Ancl at that point, we were still going to his wedding. 422 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,695 A few days before the wedding day, 423 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,295 James was travelling to Texas to bring his two girls, Maddie 424 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:44,375 and Mackenzie, back. 425 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,735 He was so excited. I was really excited. 426 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,055 I was finally going to meet his girls. 427 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,735 Then when he got to the States, he went quiet. 428 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,375 I tried phoning, but his phone was always switched off. 429 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,735 And then I thought, "Well, he's with his girls. 430 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:08,615 "He's going to be back in a couple of days." 431 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,935 I was a bit unsettled, but not excessively worried. 432 00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:17,335 Then James sent her a message. 433 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,455 I heard the door open and in comes James. 434 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,735 He said, "We're not getting married." 435 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,655 James said the wedding couldn't go ahead. 436 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,535 I just broke down in tears. 437 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,215 Just utter devastation. 438 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,975 His ex-wife had just played her old tricks, just got him 439 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,295 all the way to Texas and just refused to let the girls come 440 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:56,495 back with him. 441 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,655 So I said, "Well, this is awful, James, but after the wedding, 442 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,935 "we'll do a big party. 443 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,215 "We'll get the girls over then and we can make it just as special." 444 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:07,615 But he was having none of it. 445 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,935 I did at this point try and say, 446 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,415 "No. Come on, this is getting silly now." 447 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,135 "We've just cancelled a wedding a couple of months ago. 448 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:16,935 "We can't do that to everyone." 449 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,935 But he was adamant he couldn't get married without his daughters there. 450 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,975 But he would get in touch with Donna, the wedding planner. 451 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,015 They'd arrange another wedding date. 452 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,615 One when he's sure that his girls could come. 453 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,055 And at that point, I just said, "No, I'm not telling everyone 454 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:33,895 "that it's cancelled again." 455 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,535 I'd been his champion to that point. 456 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,095 I just checked out of it then. No. 457 00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:48,735 No, I didn't even want to talk to him, really. 458 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,695 When I first heard the wedding was off, I remember thinking 459 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,295 at the time, 460 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,615 "Wow. Like, that's quite a big thing to do. 461 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:56,775 "Call off a wedding." 462 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,135 What all this time and expense has gone into. 463 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,655 James said that on the actual wedding day, 464 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,895 we should have a day away. 465 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,055 Make a nice memory and not just dwell on the fact 466 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,735 that it should have been the day we were getting married. 467 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,215 We decided to go for the day to Scarborough and just have a nice 468 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:16,535 family day out. 469 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,375 On the Saturday that they were clue to get married, 470 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,375 we had nothing to do. 471 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,135 Ryan ancl I, because we'd planned to be having a wonderful clay 472 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,775 at Wyo yard Hall and celebrating my sister's wedding. 473 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,975 James had recently had a lot of boilers installed in different 474 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,735 rental properties I owned, and I needed to check up on some 475 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,855 maintenance issues, and when we were there I thought, oh, I've seen 476 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:46,295 this brand spanking expensive 477 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:47,895 new boiler that's been installed. 478 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,775 We looked in the boiler cupboard. 479 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,215 Ancl there was a boiler in there, but it looked a bit dusty. 480 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,535 I also went around and looked at the rest of the property, 481 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,895 and the amount that Karen had paid to James to get this work clone was, 482 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,135 you know, a bit excessive. 483 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,175 Ryan phoned the boiler installation company and found out 484 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,615 that that model hadn't been in production 485 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,295 for many years. 486 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:23,775 So I then decided to phone another tenant, who also had a new boiler 487 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,815 installed, but she confirmed that no boiler had been put 488 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:28,135 in that property either. 489 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,015 None of the maintenance she'd asked for for months thatjames 490 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,335 had been sorting out, none of it had been clone. 491 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:34,535 It had all been paid for by me, 492 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:35,935 but none of it had been clone. 493 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,415 I phoned Coleen. James could hear a bit of the conversation. 494 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,775 He kept saying, "Let me speak to her. 495 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,015 "Let me speak to her. Oh, I can't believe it. I can't believe it." 496 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,455 He'd been let down badly and heads were going to roll 497 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:52,735 on the Monday morning. 498 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,055 I didn't believe him, actually. 499 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:59,455 I knew that there was something really badly wrong. 500 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,455 I phoned Wyo yard Hall, where the wedding was, and I spoke 501 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,095 to the manager. 502 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,255 I asked, is the Scott wedding going on today? 503 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,455 The gentleman said, "Never heard that name." 504 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,175 He says, "No, we've actually got a wedding on today that's 505 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:17,815 "been booked for months." 506 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,935 So this all started snowballing. 507 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,255 It felt like everything was going in slow motion 508 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:29,735 because how could that be? 509 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,375 Coleen had been dealing with the wedding planner. 510 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:34,895 She'd had emails. 511 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:36,815 And that was the moment 512 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,055 that it all started to unravel. 513 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,055 I phoned Coleen and told her to excuse herself and go 514 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,815 to the ladies, because I'd got something to tell her, but to act 515 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,695 normally in front ofjames and to not arouse his suspicions. 516 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,255 I said to James, "just nipping to the toilet." 517 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:55,655 Went into the ladies, 518 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:57,975 and rung Karen back, and she said, "You need to sit down." 519 00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,815 She said, "|'m so, so sorry, Col. 520 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:04,215 "I don't know how to tell you this, but there was never any wedding." 521 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,855 I could hear the teeth chattering in shock, and I was saying to her, 522 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,175 "You mustn't let him know. Get him back to Chester le Street. 523 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:11,615 "We need to talk to him. 524 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,055 "We need to find out what the hell 525 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:14,495 "is going on and what's he clone?" 526 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,215 So somehow I went out and just said, "Karen and 527 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,975 "I have had a massive bust up. I'm really worried for Karen. 528 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:21,455 "I want to go see my sister now." 529 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:22,815 He knew how close we were. 530 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:24,455 He couldn't argue with that. 531 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,735 She deserved an Academy Award 532 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:28,255 for playing that part. 533 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,855 On the route, I'm staring out the window, reeling from what Karen 534 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:34,375 has just told me. 535 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,575 I actually said to James, "You would never lie to me, would you?" 536 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,895 And actually, I had to hammer it home. 537 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,215 So I said, "So if you lie to me now, 538 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,055 "you're saying Charlie would drop down dead now if you told a lie?" 539 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,415 "Yep. I would never lie to you." 540 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,335 I just at that point thought, "My God, who are you?" 541 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,135 What about my money now? 542 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,655 Ancl is it all OK? ls my money safe? 543 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:04,215 I phoned the solicitors firm and they confirmed that the name 544 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,695 that we'd had for who James had been dealing with, didn't exist. 545 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,015 Ancl not only did he not exist, there was no branch 546 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:10,455 in Newcastle anyway. 547 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,895 I answered the phone and Karen was just hysterical. 548 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,495 "|t's all lies. He's lied about everything." 549 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,055 "My money isn't safe." 550 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,335 I was just blurting it out. 551 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:22,415 She just said, "We're coming up. 552 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,215 "We're coming up to confront him." You know, "Keep him at the house." 553 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,935 James had heard part of this and turned around 554 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,255 And I just said to him, "What have you done?" 555 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:31,975 He just carried on driving. 556 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,495 Pulled in to the driveway. 557 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:34,775 Jumped out of the car. 558 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,295 He passed Charlie to me 559 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,655 and just said, "I just need a minute." 560 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,255 Jumped in the car and drove off. 561 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,735 We missed him by about half a minute because just as we were driving 562 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,095 into Coleen's street, he drove past us. 563 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,935 Ancl he had this cheeky little, you know, like, "I've got you. 564 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:00,375 "I've had you." 565 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,735 Just looked like the cat that got the cream. 566 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,455 Ancl this little wave was the moment that I knew, beyond a shadow 567 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,295 of a doubt, that my money had gone. 568 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,175 But the hardest bit was telling Coleen. 569 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:15,815 That was heartbreaking. 570 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:21,775 She looked wrecked by it. 571 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:26,575 She looked so upset and so hurt. 572 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,575 Absolutely devastated. 573 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:32,335 Whatever we found out 574 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,575 from that point was going to be bad. 575 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:52,655 We walked into the police station and I was just blurting it all out. 576 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,375 "All my money's been stolen. He's stolen it all. 577 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,815 "He's taken... He's a liar. He's a thief. He's a cheat." 578 00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,535 We had his registration of his car. 579 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,695 Policeman went away and came back and said, "Well, this is registered 580 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,575 "to a Greg Wilson." 581 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:12,175 Brian and I looked at each other and said, "And who is Greg Wilson?" 582 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,815 Because we'd never heard that name... 583 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,695 ...and that was the tip of the iceberg. 584 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,775 My name is Chris Bentham, and I'm a detective 585 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:37,455 with Durham Police. 586 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:42,055 I've been a police officer for 27 years and a detective for 23 years. 587 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:49,375 So I came in just on a normal routine day into the CID office 588 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,295 and was allocated this case. 589 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:56,255 I read through it and couldn't quite believe my eyes what I was reading. 590 00:34:57,720 --> 00:34:59,735 James hadn't come back at this point. 591 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,095 He wasn't answering anybody's calls or texts. 592 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,895 "Let's try and find out who this Greg Wilson is." 593 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:06,935 Maybe he can tell us where James has gone. 594 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,295 You go to social media first, to find anybody these days, don't you? 595 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,215 So we're putting Greg Wilson. 596 00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:13,615 We got up a raft of different Greg Wilsons. 597 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,415 None of them were right. 598 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,255 My daughter Laura said, "Look, it's a long shot, but let's 599 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,815 "just check all the Wilsons in the Darlington area. 600 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,535 "Maybe we can find this Greg Wilson's family member or something, 601 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,415 "and they can point us in the right direction." 602 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,615 And then we found a Facebook prof fie. 603 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:42,135 And there was a smiling photo of this woman with James. 604 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,655 I just turned in horror to my family and said, 605 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,935 "Oh, my God, James isn't James. 606 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:51,535 "He's Greg Wilson." 607 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,695 I just went into shock at that point. 608 00:35:56,720 --> 00:35:59,455 I just couldn't believe what I was seeing. 609 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,775 I started to shake, just felt sick. 610 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,455 I decided I needed to get some more answers and find out 611 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,095 what was going on. 612 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,215 Ancl the best person I thought who could do this was his mum. 613 00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:28,855 James had always said that his mum didn't do social media. 614 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,775 She was too private a person, so I'd never, ever looked for her. 615 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,495 But we'd found Facebook... 616 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,735 I rang the number, she answered. 617 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:44,735 I said, "Just before we go any further, can I ask 618 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:46,335 "you one question, please? 619 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,375 "Can I ask the name of your son?" 620 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,855 She went, "|t's an odd thing to ask, but of course he's called Greg." 621 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,175 Ancl I said, "Well, that's not who I know him to be. 622 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,175 "I know him to bejames Scott." 623 00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,055 And she 'gust gasped. 624 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,855 So while talking tojames's mum, 625 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:12,255 obviously I asked all the questions and was he going back to his wife? 626 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,975 Was that where he was the whole time living this double life? 627 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:17,695 Were they still together? 628 00:37:17,720 --> 00:37:22,735 His mum told me that he was very much still in his wife's life. 629 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,815 Obviously, his mum hasn't had a clue either. 630 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,735 She'd been told a pack of lies about me. 631 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,775 She'd been told that I owned loads of property, thatjames was working 632 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:39,855 for my business in property. 633 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,815 The woman had been fed nearly as many lies as I had. 634 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,255 She'd never owned her own property. 635 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,055 She'd never been a sports agent. 636 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,415 She'd never lived in the South of France. 637 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,695 Lie after lie after lie. 638 00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:01,415 When he was working and he was doing shifts and he was away overnight, 639 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,175 he was with his wife and his family. 640 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,855 Ryan phoned Washington Fire Station and said did they have a 641 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,495 James Scott firefighter that worked there? 642 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,455 And they said, no, no, no, James Scott had ever worked there. 643 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,175 "Do you have a Greg Wilson as a firefighter working there?" 644 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,535 No, had never heard that name either. 645 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,015 So we knew then that he wasn't a firefighter either. 646 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,975 But he had the outfit and all his shifts - 647 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:33,455 where was he going? 648 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,735 Who were these girls that were his daughters 649 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,575 that were sending me cards and buying me presents? 650 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:42,255 They didn't exist. 651 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,695 He'd obviously just been taking stock images off the internet 652 00:38:45,720 --> 00:38:47,295 for lots of the stuff. 653 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:50,575 They weren't daughters. 654 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:52,815 They were just, you know, whoever. 655 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,855 If these people didn't exist, who was he talking to? 656 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:07,855 Had he had a vasectomy? 657 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:09,855 Well, I'd seen the evidence. 658 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,095 The fact that he made up a false 659 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,015 name, that they had a child together, 660 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:18,855 there's no real crime in that. 661 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,535 My job was to focus on the criminal side. 662 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,575 He was taking money off Coleen's sister and using it 663 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:29,255 for his own purposes. 664 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,895 When I found out that the investments I'd invested, 665 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:41,695 hadn't - they didn't exist - and all my money had gone, 666 00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:43,535 it was humiliating. 667 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:50,895 I might have lost every penny I had, but I just felt absolutely awful 668 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:55,255 for Coleen to have found all this out. 669 00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:58,375 I felt heartbroken for her. 670 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:03,815 It was devastating. 671 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,895 If it wasn't for Charlie, I mean, he was my saving grace. 672 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,335 I had to get out of bed. 673 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,775 I had to go through the motions. 674 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:20,335 This was the card he posted from a letterbox weeks 675 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:21,695 after he'd run off. 676 00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:25,095 He was aware at this point that I knew he wasn't James Scott 677 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,975 and he was Greg Wilson, so he doesn't even pretend 678 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,255 to be James Scott in this card. 679 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,855 Ancl it just says, "Col, I'm sorry. 680 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,615 "I do love you and Charlie to the ends of the Earth. 681 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,495 "Miss you both and love you both. Please take care. 682 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,975 "Sorry. And, "All my love, Princess." 683 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:42,855 Ancl then kisses again. 684 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:44,295 And that was that. 685 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:49,775 Ancl this was the last correspondence that I had with James, and he's 686 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,015 never contacted me since. 687 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,335 Once I'd had the conversation with Detective Bentham and it became 688 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,975 clear that we weren't going to be paid for the work we'd clone, 689 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,415 I was like, really pissed off. Actually, 690 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,935 you know, he had the wool over everybody's eyes, and he's clone 691 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:08,375 it really well. 692 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,935 He went on the run, but I traced him through an online 693 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:21,335 bank account. 694 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,095 So I literally sort of flew out of the office, grabbed the car 695 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,535 keys, drove as fast as I possibly could down to where Greg Wilson 696 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,415 was living, knocked on the door, and walked in. 697 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,975 And there he was, sat there, really cool, really calm. 698 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,895 When I told him why I was investigating, he said something 699 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,175 along the lines of, "Yes, it was me." 700 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,455 In all the time that he was spoken to, that's the only real 701 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,015 admission that we got. 702 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,295 OK. The date is the 18th of August. 703 00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:51,855 What is your full name, please? 704 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,175 Greg James Wilson. Right. 705 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,215 Greg, I arrested you on suspicion of theft and fraud 706 00:41:57,240 --> 00:41:58,935 by false representation. 707 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:00,815 So the first question is really simple. 708 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,255 Are you responsible for that? No comment. 709 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,375 In relation to, um, Karen Crier, 710 00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:12,295 she tells me that she has paid you, um, over the period of about eight 711 00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:16,655 months, in relation to businesses which you have allegedly set up, 712 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:23,175 she's paid you £57,656.90 to you. 713 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,175 Do you agree with that? No comment. 714 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,535 Do you dispute that? No comment. 715 00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:29,975 Did you tell them lies about all these companies and all these things 716 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,655 that you were doing to con them out of money? No comment. 717 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,495 Is there anything that you can give to me that that would be innocent 718 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,175 explanation as to what you've done. 719 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:38,575 No comment. 720 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,455 You were living a lie. No comment. 721 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:45,175 So when I arrested Greg Wilson, there was other people in the house, 722 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,855 and, and surprisingly, I discovered that one of the people 723 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:50,815 was his new fiancee. 724 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:54,895 He had told, told her that he worked at Catterick in the Army. 725 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,255 And quite often when sort of military aircraft, aircraft 726 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,175 would fly over, um, he would suggest that he might get called 727 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,735 into work. Again, a complete lie. 728 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:05,215 He wasn't working for the Army. 729 00:43:05,240 --> 00:43:07,055 He wasn't even working. 730 00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,535 I think through the day he would go out, like, as though he was working 731 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,855 and do what he wanted to do, and come back on a teatime and suggest 732 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:15,695 that he'd been to work. 733 00:43:15,720 --> 00:43:18,015 He was well on his way to starting another fraud. 734 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:26,535 Because I'd lost my job as well as having all the money stolen, 735 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,935 I couldn't keep up with the properties I owned. 736 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,775 I tried for as long as I could, and it got to a point 737 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,735 where I had to ultimately admit defeat and file for bankruptcy. 738 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:39,455 One of the worst times of my life. 739 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,495 Greg Wilson waited right until the last minute 740 00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:52,895 to plead guilty. 741 00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:54,695 It's no surprise to me to do that. 742 00:43:54,720 --> 00:43:57,695 I'm pretty sure that he was waiting to see if Coleen and Karen 743 00:43:57,720 --> 00:43:59,295 really wanted to go through with it, 744 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,055 to give evidence at court. 745 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:04,055 We're nice people, and I think he counted on us being nice 746 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,455 and being soft, and that's how we would behave. 747 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,215 But actually we've got core of steel when it comes to it. 748 00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:12,335 And he wasn't going to get away that easily. 749 00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,575 Really wanted some explanation and some answers. 750 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,095 That's all I've ever wanted, but I didn't get them. 751 00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,375 He's just such a coward. 752 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,255 We never quite got to the bottom of, 753 00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,335 was anybody else involved? Did Greg Wilson involved anybody 754 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:33,095 else to help him commit, commit this fraud? 755 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,855 That bit is still quite open-ended. 756 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,855 I think what he did was absolutely disgraceful. 757 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,375 But it was... 758 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,575 You've got to admire somebody that can keep so many balls juggling 759 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,095 and keep track of all his lies. 760 00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,175 And if he'd only chosen to use his power for good 761 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,695 rather than for evil, he could have conquered the world. 762 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,975 It did take me a while to even consider meeting somebody else 763 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,455 or having a relationship, but I did, in time, go on to meet 764 00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:07,215 a really nice man. 765 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:11,735 I mean, it was awful, 766 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,815 I made him introduce me to all his family within the first 767 00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,255 few dates, and I had to check his bank accounts and his 768 00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,495 birth certificate and his passport, and meet all of his friends. 769 00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,015 Even despite everything I'd been through, I wasn't going 770 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,735 to let James Scott define the rest of my life. 771 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,695 I don't hate the man any more, because I wouldn't give 772 00:45:35,720 --> 00:45:37,175 him that power. 773 00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,655 Ancl it's corrosive, and it's a bit like a car. 774 00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,015 He used to sit up front and always be beside me. 775 00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,735 Now he's in the back seat, and eventually he'll be in the boot. 776 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:47,495 He's got no power any more.