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[theme music]
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From New York City,
the only city in America.
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It's the show that
invented news!
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This is The Daily Show with
your host, Wanda Sykes.
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[cheering]
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[applause]
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Welcome to The Daily Show.
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I'm Wanda Sykes.
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Yep, tonight is my last
night hosting the show.
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I don't know what took
Jon and Trevor so long,
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I solved everything
in four days.
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Hey, we've got a great
show for you tonight.
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Sherrilyn Ifill will be joining
me, so let's get into it.
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[cheering]
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Let's start with the
big political news.
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Facebook and Instagram are
ending the two-year ban they
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imposed on Donald
Trump after January 6,
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and allowing the former
President back on their sites.
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I mean, letting Trump
back on Facebook is crazy.
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You're just asking for trouble.
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It's like letting
Hannibal Lecter baby-sit
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your most delicious child.
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But Facebook is putting
him back online anyway,
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because they say that
quote, "The public
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should be able to hear what
their politicians are saying."
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And to that, let me
say, quote, "Phooey!"
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Look, we all know Facebook
is losing a ton of money
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and they want that
Trump attention back.
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They need a hit.
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Trump is their White Lotus.
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Right?
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I mean, he's the Jennifer
Coolidge of the internet.
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Yeah, I'm fun.
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[applause]
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Look, but I think
maybe for the first week,
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they should just allow him
to only post cat photos.
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You know, let's
see how it goes.
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If you see a bunch of
cats storming the Capitol,
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although adorable,
shut it down.
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All right, moving on
to some tech news.
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You ever play that
game where you ask,
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what if you could have dinner
with anyone in history?
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Personally, for me,
it would be Jesus,
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because my mother is watching.
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Well, the good news is, AI is
making this fantasy happen.
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The bad news is, there's one
name on the invite list that
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probably shouldn't be there.
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Meantime today,
the new AI app
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intended to create
interest in history
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is instead causing controversy.
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Historical Figures Chat
was created by an Amazon
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software engineer.
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It allows users to
select historical figures
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and have a conversation with
an AI pretending to be them.
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People have been chatting
with figures like Jesus, Babe
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Ruth, and now, Adolf Hitler.
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Activists worry Hitler's
addition will attract
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and encourage neo-Nazis.
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Why would anyone
make an AI Hitler?
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That's the last thing we need.
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And we already have an
app where you can hear
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Hitler's uncensored views.
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It's called Twitter.
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[applause]
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And look, parents are
already worried about what
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their kids are doing online.
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Now they'll be knocking on
their kid's bedroom door
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like, Jeremy, you better not
be in there talking to Hitler!
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All right, let's move on.
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Because if you've
ever been to a museum,
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you might have thought that the
biggest problem is pretending
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you know what Baroque is.
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$30 for a ticket?
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My Baroque ass can't pay that.
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[applause]
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But it turns out there's
even a bigger problem that's
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finally being addressed.
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The word mummy
is being canceled.
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Museums are choosing to
go with different terms,
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largely because
of the pop culture
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view, which tends to
portray mummies as monsters.
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So CNN says more
museums are choosing
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to go with the term,
mummified person,
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to restore the
person's humanity.
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Wait a minute.
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Let's be clear
right off the bat.
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Mummies aren't monsters.
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It's only a monster when
it gets the [bleep] up!
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Just a mummy.
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Monster.
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But yes, they want
us to be respectful.
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The correct usage is
mummified persons.
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As in, why the hell
do half our senators
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look like mummified persons?
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[applause]
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If you ask me, the museums
are making a big mistake here.
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Having a monster in the
museum is the only thing
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that gets kids in the door.
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You think kids are coming
to see them old ass bowls?
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No!
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They're coming to see a mummy!
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And finally, Missouri
is the latest
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state to consider a law
banning critical race
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theory in schools.
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But that's not all.
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This law also offers teachers
$3,000 to take a course
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in how to teach patriotism.
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Man, if I was a
teacher, I'd be pissed.
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$3,000 for a patriotism course?
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I knew this whole time y'all
had money for school supplies.
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I been, you got
me out here giving
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students pens that I ripped
off the chain at the bank.
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For more on this
patriotism course,
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let's turn to Roy Wood
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Jr. [applause]
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[cheering]
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Roy.
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No, you don't, you
don't mess up my count.
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Hang on a second.
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OK, all right, I got
my count straight.
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What's going on?
- OK.
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I just wanted to
know, what do you know
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about this patriotism course?
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You know, what can I tell you
about this patriotism course?
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I can tell you a lot
about the patriotism
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course, because I took it.
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You took the course?
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But it's for teachers.
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Why would you take it?
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For $3,000!
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Shit!
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Took the course 20 times.
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Look at all this damn money.
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I took the course
as Roy Wood Jr.,
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and then I went
back as Roy Wood Sr.
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and went back as Michael
Jordan, Michael B. Jordan,
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all you got to do with
these white people, man,
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just tell them you
one Black dude,
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and then they believe you.
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I'm going back next week
as Frederick Douglass.
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What's wrong with you?
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$3,000.
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OK, well, did
you learn anything?
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Yeah.
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I mean, honestly, I came
out with a real appreciation
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for the founding fathers.
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Founding fathers,
like Ben Franklin.
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Founding fathers
like Andrew Jackson.
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OK, no, no, Roy, I mean--
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I got a Jackson in here.
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OK, look, what did
the course teach you?
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It can't be that good
if it's run by a bunch
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of Missouri Republicans.
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I mean, actually,
I learned a lot.
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First thing I
learned, I learned
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that Missouri is
one of the most
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important states in our Union.
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Did you know, without Missouri,
Iowa would fall into Arkansas?
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And it would just be chaos.
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Just a big hole in the
middle of the country.
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It's structurally important.
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Look, all Republican
history is very interesting.
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It's very interesting.
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It's a very interesting course.
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I learned that Abraham Lincoln
was assassinated by Hillary
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Clinton, and, and, hold on,
this is, I learned this,
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this is in the book.
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Now I also learned
Harriet Tubman.
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You know Harriet Tubman?
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It's really a white man.
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You can't run from the truth.
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You can't run from the truth.
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Roy!
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Come on, man.
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I'm just telling
you what I learned.
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Harriet Tubman was
really a white man.
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It sounds like you
learned a bunch of nonsense.
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Look, look, it
wasn't all nonsense.
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I tell you one thing
I really learned.
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We really do need to
keep pushing for CRT,
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because I think
we've finally found
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a way for Republicans to start
giving more money to teachers.
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That's what we got to do.
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You keep 'em
scared, they'll find
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more money for the teachers.
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I'll tell you right now,
that's why I printed
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up these fake textbooks.
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I'm going to start leaving
these at all the schools.
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I'm going to scare the hell
out of these Republicans.
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They're going to be
giving all the money.
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Look at some of these subjects.
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Look at this one.
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AP Reparations.
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That's scary.
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That's scary.
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You got a Drag
Queen Philosophy.
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That's a good scary
book right there.
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That's a good scary
book right there.
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We got AOC's ABCs.
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Oh, that's a scary textbook.
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That's going to
get a lot of money.
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This is the one right
here now, this is the one.
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This is the one going
to get them all.
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George Washington, Our
First Non-Binary President.
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[cheering]
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I'm telling you.
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OK, they're really
not going like that one.
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00:09:38,078 --> 00:09:39,079
No, they're not, they're not.
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Look, just wait until
you read this book.
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You read this George Washington
book and find out the truth.
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He chopped down
that cherry tree
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and used the wood to
make an abortion clinic.
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OK, this is ridiculous,
this is ridiculous.
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I'm tell ya,
look, look, look.
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In this, this is history.
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It's not ridiculous,
it's history.
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I read it in a book.
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You need to learn something
about our country's
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very history, Wanda.
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I'm happy to teach
you for $3,000.
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Roy Wood Jr., everybody.
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No.
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You need a little money?
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00:10:06,707 --> 00:10:07,608
No.
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00:10:07,708 --> 00:10:09,009
I need a little money.
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00:10:09,109 --> 00:10:11,512
Need a little money.
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[applause]
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[cheering]
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[applause]
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All right, welcome
back to The Daily Show.
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All right, let me just take
a few minutes to tell you
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something that happened to me.
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So I was on the LIE--
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that's the Long
Island Expressway--
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and I got pulled over.
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The officer, he was a
young Eric Estrada type.
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He said I entered the
HOV lane illegally, OK?
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Maybe I did, maybe I didn't.
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I don't know.
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So he handed me the ticket, and
it was rolled up with a rubber
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band, you know,
like it was a grade
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00:11:09,568 --> 00:11:11,570
school diploma or something.
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I was like, OK.
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00:11:12,771 --> 00:11:14,773
So the next day, I was
like, yeah, I wasn't
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really thinking much about it.
I was like, you know what?
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Let me check this ticket out.
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So I unrolled the scroll.
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And it was actually
four tickets.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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One was for entering
the HOV lane illegally.
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00:11:27,553 --> 00:11:29,989
One was for an
obstructed license plate,
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which was totally bullshit.
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One was for disobeying
traffic signals.
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00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,930
And he also gave me
a ticket for exiting
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00:11:38,030 --> 00:11:41,267
the HOV lane illegally.
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00:11:41,367 --> 00:11:44,803
I was like, you were behind
me with your lights on.
258
00:11:44,903 --> 00:11:48,374
You made me exit illegally.
259
00:11:48,507 --> 00:11:50,643
So it added up to
about, you know,
260
00:11:50,743 --> 00:11:54,013
hundreds of dollars in
fines and a bunch of points.
261
00:11:54,113 --> 00:11:55,748
So I gave it to my
business manager
262
00:11:55,848 --> 00:11:57,516
and they gave it to a lawyer.
263
00:11:57,583 --> 00:11:59,318
And he took care of it.
264
00:11:59,418 --> 00:12:01,687
Actually, the lawyer said
he ran into the judge
265
00:12:01,787 --> 00:12:03,155
in the hallway,
didn't even have
266
00:12:03,255 --> 00:12:04,290
to go to court, all right?
267
00:12:04,390 --> 00:12:06,992
So small fine, no points.
268
00:12:07,092 --> 00:12:10,796
I kept the rubber
band, by the way.
269
00:12:10,896 --> 00:12:12,798
Now I was lucky, right?
270
00:12:12,898 --> 00:12:16,001
I have the means to deal with
these kind of situations.
271
00:12:16,101 --> 00:12:19,838
OK, more specifically,
I have money.
272
00:12:19,939 --> 00:12:22,207
I mean, I don't
have murder money.
273
00:12:22,308 --> 00:12:26,478
[laughter]
274
00:12:26,578 --> 00:12:29,548
But I can commit
a few infractions.
275
00:12:29,648 --> 00:12:30,783
You know, petty ones.
276
00:12:30,883 --> 00:12:32,584
Running late, don't have
quarters for the meter.
277
00:12:32,685 --> 00:12:33,585
Ah, [bleep] it.
278
00:12:33,686 --> 00:12:36,622
Give me the ticket.
279
00:12:36,722 --> 00:12:40,192
But it did make me think, you
know, for a lot of people,
280
00:12:40,292 --> 00:12:43,495
just getting a ticket could
practically ruin your life.
281
00:12:43,562 --> 00:12:46,165
And that's what I want to talk
about in tonight's installment
282
00:12:46,265 --> 00:12:48,968
of Long Story Short.
283
00:12:49,068 --> 00:12:51,804
[music playing]
284
00:12:51,904 --> 00:12:55,074
[applause]
285
00:12:55,174 --> 00:13:00,179
Across America, police
are handing out 112,000
286
00:13:00,279 --> 00:13:02,381
speeding tickets every day.
287
00:13:02,514 --> 00:13:04,216
Yeah, that's a lot of tickets.
288
00:13:04,316 --> 00:13:06,518
I'm like, where do they find
the time to shoot people?
289
00:13:06,552 --> 00:13:12,124
[laughter]
290
00:13:12,224 --> 00:13:14,793
And those tickets
aren't going away
291
00:13:14,893 --> 00:13:16,962
any time soon
because these fines
292
00:13:17,062 --> 00:13:18,697
aren't just to punish you.
293
00:13:18,797 --> 00:13:22,101
It turns out local
governments need that money
294
00:13:22,201 --> 00:13:23,602
to keep the lights on.
295
00:13:23,702 --> 00:13:24,837
FEMALE REPORTER:
Traffic stops aren't
296
00:13:24,937 --> 00:13:28,173
always about safety or
hunting contraband or crime.
297
00:13:28,274 --> 00:13:31,844
Some cities use traffic
stops to raise money.
298
00:13:31,944 --> 00:13:33,145
The cities and
counties that are
299
00:13:33,245 --> 00:13:35,581
trying to use these schemes,
trying to use these fines
300
00:13:35,681 --> 00:13:37,750
and fees to balance
their budget
301
00:13:37,850 --> 00:13:40,619
are basically charging a
back door tax to poor people.
302
00:13:40,719 --> 00:13:42,521
MALE REPORTER: In the South,
municipalities strapped
303
00:13:42,621 --> 00:13:44,356
for cash have been targeting
the most vulnerable
304
00:13:44,490 --> 00:13:46,525
citizens, who are
primarily Black
305
00:13:46,625 --> 00:13:48,694
and living under
the poverty line.
306
00:13:48,794 --> 00:13:50,829
In Missouri, some of
these municipalities
307
00:13:50,930 --> 00:13:53,799
generate anywhere from 20%
to 40% of their total revenue
308
00:13:53,899 --> 00:13:55,501
by fining citizens.
309
00:13:55,567 --> 00:13:56,502
That's right.
310
00:13:56,568 --> 00:13:58,971
These cities are
filling their budgets
311
00:13:59,071 --> 00:14:01,073
on the backs of poor people.
312
00:14:01,173 --> 00:14:03,142
Yeah, so the next
time a cop asks,
313
00:14:03,242 --> 00:14:05,010
do you know why I
pulled you over?
314
00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:06,812
You can be like, let me guess.
315
00:14:06,912 --> 00:14:08,547
The mayor wants
a standing desk?
316
00:14:08,647 --> 00:14:10,249
[laughter]
317
00:14:10,349 --> 00:14:12,985
[applause]
318
00:14:13,085 --> 00:14:15,054
And getting fined
is bad enough.
319
00:14:15,154 --> 00:14:17,523
But then they tack on
a bunch of extra fees.
320
00:14:17,556 --> 00:14:19,758
Payment plan fees,
collection fees.
321
00:14:19,858 --> 00:14:23,529
One county even has
a $51 processing fee.
322
00:14:23,596 --> 00:14:28,067
So it costs you $51 to
give me a $30 ticket.
323
00:14:28,167 --> 00:14:30,302
How about you not
giving me the ticket,
324
00:14:30,469 --> 00:14:32,371
and you just saved
yourself $21?
325
00:14:32,471 --> 00:14:38,544
[laughter and applause]
326
00:14:38,644 --> 00:14:41,480
And let's say-- and let's say
you're like a lot of people
327
00:14:41,580 --> 00:14:44,350
and don't have all this
money just laying around.
328
00:14:44,483 --> 00:14:47,953
Well, in 14 states, your
ass might be going to jail.
329
00:14:48,053 --> 00:14:49,088
Yeah, you heard me right.
330
00:14:49,188 --> 00:14:52,958
14 states will send you
to jail for being poor.
331
00:14:53,058 --> 00:14:55,494
And if you want to know
what states those are,
332
00:14:55,594 --> 00:14:59,765
it's probably the ones
you're thinking of.
333
00:14:59,865 --> 00:15:00,799
And guess what?
334
00:15:00,899 --> 00:15:02,835
You could come
out of jail owing
335
00:15:02,935 --> 00:15:06,538
even more because they
actually charge you another fee
336
00:15:06,639 --> 00:15:08,207
for going to jail.
337
00:15:08,307 --> 00:15:09,775
Like, that's so messed up.
338
00:15:09,875 --> 00:15:10,776
Wait a minute.
339
00:15:10,876 --> 00:15:12,411
I'm in jail because
I couldn't pay,
340
00:15:12,511 --> 00:15:15,514
and now you're charging
me more for being in jail?
341
00:15:15,614 --> 00:15:16,915
You knew I couldn't pay.
342
00:15:17,016 --> 00:15:19,418
That's why I was here
in the first place.
343
00:15:19,518 --> 00:15:23,756
What, do you think I hit the
lottery while I was in jail?
344
00:15:23,856 --> 00:15:24,790
But you know what?
345
00:15:24,890 --> 00:15:26,759
It doesn't have to be this way.
346
00:15:26,859 --> 00:15:28,827
A lot of other
countries never fine
347
00:15:28,928 --> 00:15:30,996
you more than you can afford.
348
00:15:31,096 --> 00:15:32,998
They fine you based
on your income.
349
00:15:33,098 --> 00:15:35,668
This makes it more
fair since billionaires
350
00:15:35,768 --> 00:15:38,337
aren't paying the
same fines as people
351
00:15:38,470 --> 00:15:40,005
who work at the dollar store.
352
00:15:40,105 --> 00:15:42,007
And if you're
thinking, that must
353
00:15:42,107 --> 00:15:45,544
lead to some expensive ass
tickets, you'd be right.
354
00:15:45,644 --> 00:15:47,579
A man in Finland
got caught speeding,
355
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:48,914
and, boy, did he
have to pay up.
356
00:15:49,014 --> 00:15:50,215
Listen to this.
357
00:15:50,316 --> 00:15:54,653
A Finnish millionaire got
a $58,000 fine for going 64
358
00:15:54,753 --> 00:15:56,655
miles per hour in a 50 zone.
359
00:15:56,755 --> 00:15:59,325
Well, that seems
kind of crazy here.
360
00:15:59,491 --> 00:16:01,393
Over in Finland,
speeding tickets
361
00:16:01,493 --> 00:16:02,695
are based on your income.
362
00:16:02,795 --> 00:16:06,498
The highest ticket so far
was $103,000, a ticket
363
00:16:06,532 --> 00:16:10,169
given to a Nokia executive
who made roughly $14 million
364
00:16:10,269 --> 00:16:12,504
that year.
365
00:16:12,605 --> 00:16:15,808
I'll tell you what.
366
00:16:15,908 --> 00:16:16,809
I tell you what.
367
00:16:16,909 --> 00:16:18,277
We did that here,
that would make
368
00:16:18,377 --> 00:16:22,948
me start putting those
quarters in the parking meter.
369
00:16:23,048 --> 00:16:26,118
Look, if the ticket is meant
to punish you, it should feel
370
00:16:26,218 --> 00:16:28,921
like a punishment.
$30 for a rich person
371
00:16:29,021 --> 00:16:30,589
is not a punishment.
372
00:16:30,689 --> 00:16:35,194
Rich people don't even
know money goes that low.
373
00:16:35,294 --> 00:16:38,664
If you ask Jeff Bezos
for $30, he'll be like,
374
00:16:38,764 --> 00:16:43,369
do I just rip a corner
off for this $100 bill?
375
00:16:43,469 --> 00:16:47,373
So long story short, stop using
poor people as your little
376
00:16:47,473 --> 00:16:50,709
take a penny jar,
especially over small shit.
377
00:16:50,809 --> 00:16:53,812
If anything, we should
be doing the opposite.
378
00:16:53,912 --> 00:16:56,882
I propose every highway
should have a broke lane.
379
00:16:56,982 --> 00:17:00,119
[laughter]
380
00:17:00,219 --> 00:17:01,987
Do what you want.
381
00:17:02,087 --> 00:17:04,189
Do what you want to
do in the broke lane.
382
00:17:04,290 --> 00:17:07,359
Busted tail light,
expired registration,
383
00:17:07,493 --> 00:17:08,360
dangling muffler.
384
00:17:08,494 --> 00:17:09,395
Who cares?
385
00:17:09,495 --> 00:17:11,730
You can haul ass
in the broke lane
386
00:17:11,830 --> 00:17:13,599
because you got to get
from your second job
387
00:17:13,699 --> 00:17:15,034
to your third job.
388
00:17:15,134 --> 00:17:16,168
I don't care.
389
00:17:16,268 --> 00:17:18,070
Do whatever it takes.
390
00:17:18,170 --> 00:17:20,839
But if you get caught in the
broke lane, talking about,
391
00:17:20,940 --> 00:17:23,042
well, I'm trying to
get to my squash game
392
00:17:23,142 --> 00:17:26,979
at the country club,
then the officer can say,
393
00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:29,281
oh, I'm going to
have to tase you.
394
00:17:29,448 --> 00:17:35,854
[laughter and applause]
395
00:17:35,955 --> 00:17:40,659
And the electricity has
a $51 processing fee.
396
00:17:40,759 --> 00:17:43,128
All right, stay tuned
because when we come back
397
00:17:43,228 --> 00:17:45,864
Sherrilyn Ifill will be
joining me on the show.
398
00:17:45,965 --> 00:17:46,865
Don't go away.
399
00:17:46,966 --> 00:17:50,002
[applause]
400
00:17:58,076 --> 00:18:00,312
[applause]
401
00:18:00,412 --> 00:18:06,084
[cheering]
402
00:18:06,184 --> 00:18:08,653
Welcome back to
The Daily Show.
403
00:18:08,753 --> 00:18:12,357
My guest tonight is the
former president of the NAACP
404
00:18:12,457 --> 00:18:13,725
Legal Defense Fund.
405
00:18:13,825 --> 00:18:15,861
Please welcome Sherrilyn Ifill.
406
00:18:15,961 --> 00:18:17,662
[music playing]
407
00:18:17,762 --> 00:18:24,736
[applause]
408
00:18:30,709 --> 00:18:35,247
Oh, so lovely
to have you here.
409
00:18:35,347 --> 00:18:36,481
It's wonderful to be here.
410
00:18:36,581 --> 00:18:37,616
Thank you, thank
you, thank you,
411
00:18:37,716 --> 00:18:38,950
I'm so happy to have you here.
412
00:18:39,050 --> 00:18:42,220
So I want to get your title
right, because last year you
413
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,623
passed on the
mantle of President
414
00:18:44,723 --> 00:18:47,559
and Director Counsel of the
NAACP Legal Defense Fund.
415
00:18:47,659 --> 00:18:48,560
Yes, I did.
416
00:18:48,660 --> 00:18:50,996
Now, how hard is
it to leave that job?
417
00:18:51,096 --> 00:18:53,365
Because you can't
go, well, my work
418
00:18:53,465 --> 00:18:57,936
here is done, because there's
so much more work to do.
419
00:18:58,036 --> 00:18:59,304
No, it was hard.
420
00:18:59,404 --> 00:19:01,373
I love the Legal
Defense Fund, it's
421
00:19:01,473 --> 00:19:04,042
where I started my career,
and I love the work.
422
00:19:04,142 --> 00:19:08,680
And I feel like I was
made for that position.
423
00:19:08,713 --> 00:19:12,250
But I also feel like I led
it at the right moment.
424
00:19:12,350 --> 00:19:15,287
That almost 10 years that
I led the organization
425
00:19:15,387 --> 00:19:16,555
was right for me.
426
00:19:16,688 --> 00:19:19,591
And I really believe transition
is part of leadership.
427
00:19:19,691 --> 00:19:21,893
I think especially in
the civil rights space,
428
00:19:21,993 --> 00:19:24,696
sometimes we hold on
a little too long.
429
00:19:24,796 --> 00:19:27,265
And I think it's healthy
for our organizations
430
00:19:27,365 --> 00:19:28,467
when we pass that mantle.
431
00:19:28,567 --> 00:19:32,037
And fortunately for me,
I had an amazing deputy,
432
00:19:32,137 --> 00:19:34,506
Janai Nelson, who's now the
head of the organization.
433
00:19:34,606 --> 00:19:36,942
And I know that she can
continue the work well.
434
00:19:37,042 --> 00:19:40,178
And I have things I want
to do, because the work
435
00:19:40,278 --> 00:19:41,513
is not finished.
436
00:19:41,613 --> 00:19:42,514
OK.
437
00:19:42,614 --> 00:19:47,719
[applause]
438
00:19:47,819 --> 00:19:51,123
And you said that, well,
you've said that if you were
439
00:19:51,223 --> 00:19:53,825
in the private sector, that
you would be on the cover
440
00:19:53,925 --> 00:19:55,093
of Forbes magazine.
441
00:19:55,193 --> 00:19:59,831
Well, I think nonprofits
get, we don't get no respect,
442
00:19:59,931 --> 00:20:01,266
as Rodney Dangerfield
used to say,
443
00:20:01,366 --> 00:20:03,935
in that it's very
hard to do this job.
444
00:20:04,035 --> 00:20:06,037
And in addition to doing
the substantive work,
445
00:20:06,138 --> 00:20:07,072
you're a business leader.
446
00:20:07,172 --> 00:20:08,406
You're leading a staff.
447
00:20:08,507 --> 00:20:11,443
I mean, I grew LDF five times
the size it was in staff,
448
00:20:11,543 --> 00:20:13,912
in budget, in endowment.
449
00:20:14,012 --> 00:20:16,047
And that's not a small thing.
450
00:20:16,148 --> 00:20:17,983
[applause]
451
00:20:18,083 --> 00:20:21,586
And you know, I think if you're
running a for profit company
452
00:20:21,686 --> 00:20:23,455
and you do that,
people consider
453
00:20:23,555 --> 00:20:24,890
you a financial wizard
and a superstar.
454
00:20:24,990 --> 00:20:25,891
Right.
455
00:20:25,991 --> 00:20:28,093
And I think I
was a superstar.
456
00:20:28,193 --> 00:20:30,529
Absolutely.
457
00:20:30,695 --> 00:20:33,732
So I think it's
important to say it.
458
00:20:33,832 --> 00:20:36,501
But does the
nonprofit allow you
459
00:20:36,601 --> 00:20:39,204
to do more of the type of
work that you want to do,
460
00:20:39,304 --> 00:20:40,739
like to achieve the
goals that you want?
461
00:20:40,839 --> 00:20:42,607
Or could you do
that the same work
462
00:20:42,707 --> 00:20:44,209
like in the private sector?
- No.
463
00:20:44,309 --> 00:20:45,710
I mean, when I
was a little girl,
464
00:20:45,744 --> 00:20:47,446
I wanted to become a
civil rights lawyer.
465
00:20:47,546 --> 00:20:48,780
That's what I wanted.
466
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,316
I wanted to be in a position
where I could strategically
467
00:20:51,416 --> 00:20:54,152
confront issues of
inequality and injustice
468
00:20:54,252 --> 00:20:57,689
wherever they are,
however they appear.
469
00:20:57,789 --> 00:21:00,826
Sometimes that means
that we sue corporations.
470
00:21:00,926 --> 00:21:02,794
Sometimes we sue states.
471
00:21:02,894 --> 00:21:05,564
Sometimes we sue cities.
472
00:21:05,664 --> 00:21:10,368
And so the nonprofit space
allows us to be independent.
473
00:21:10,469 --> 00:21:12,037
We don't take any
money from government.
474
00:21:12,137 --> 00:21:14,806
And that allows us to do
whatever we have to do.
475
00:21:14,906 --> 00:21:17,342
Because racism and
white supremacy
476
00:21:17,442 --> 00:21:18,944
is a complex structure.
477
00:21:19,044 --> 00:21:21,146
And if you want to get
at it structurally,
478
00:21:21,246 --> 00:21:23,315
you have to be able
to meet it where
479
00:21:23,415 --> 00:21:25,817
those structures are kind of
manifesting the injustice.
480
00:21:25,917 --> 00:21:27,219
And you don't want
to be restricted
481
00:21:27,319 --> 00:21:32,524
in that by who gave you money
or by the rules of government.
482
00:21:32,691 --> 00:21:34,926
You want to be able
to really get at it.
483
00:21:35,026 --> 00:21:37,329
So I love being in
the nonprofit sector.
484
00:21:37,429 --> 00:21:40,799
I just want us to feel
worthy of the kind of respect
485
00:21:40,899 --> 00:21:43,301
that people get in for
profit sector for all
486
00:21:43,401 --> 00:21:44,936
the aspects of what we do.
487
00:21:45,036 --> 00:21:46,705
And in fact, we
do a little bit,
488
00:21:46,738 --> 00:21:48,173
we do a lot with a little bit.
489
00:21:48,273 --> 00:21:51,376
And we do it gladly
and joyfully, because
490
00:21:51,476 --> 00:21:52,544
of our commitment to the work.
491
00:21:52,711 --> 00:21:54,846
So it's just, I love
the nonprofit world,
492
00:21:54,946 --> 00:21:57,349
and I particularly love the
nonprofit civil rights world.
493
00:21:57,449 --> 00:21:59,818
But now it's
time to get paid!
494
00:21:59,918 --> 00:22:05,791
[applause]
495
00:22:05,891 --> 00:22:07,893
OK.
496
00:22:07,993 --> 00:22:11,229
This is what I want to,
right now, the Supreme Court,
497
00:22:11,329 --> 00:22:14,966
they're hearing a case about
affirmative action at college.
498
00:22:15,066 --> 00:22:18,103
This keeps coming up
over and over again.
499
00:22:18,203 --> 00:22:22,808
Like, why do you think we're
still having this battle?
500
00:22:22,908 --> 00:22:24,176
Yeah, it's quite interesting.
501
00:22:24,276 --> 00:22:28,780
You know, so I'm a litigator,
and most litigators, lawyers
502
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,215
know that if you're
going to take
503
00:22:30,315 --> 00:22:33,385
a case up to the Supreme Court,
you're bound by precedent.
504
00:22:33,485 --> 00:22:36,354
If the Supreme Court has
decided that issue before
505
00:22:36,455 --> 00:22:38,824
and has decided it one
way, it's very hard to get
506
00:22:38,924 --> 00:22:39,925
the court to reverse course.
507
00:22:40,025 --> 00:22:42,494
It happens, but
it's hard to do,
508
00:22:42,594 --> 00:22:44,229
and you have to
really have a reason
509
00:22:44,329 --> 00:22:46,898
for why you think at this
moment the court should
510
00:22:46,998 --> 00:22:48,567
reverse course.
511
00:22:48,700 --> 00:22:50,702
But this court has been
doing it quite a bit
512
00:22:50,769 --> 00:22:51,703
at a brisk clip.
513
00:22:51,803 --> 00:22:52,704
Yes.
514
00:22:52,804 --> 00:22:54,206
And you know,
obviously, we know
515
00:22:54,306 --> 00:22:56,708
the Dobbs decision
overturned Roe vs Wade,
516
00:22:56,741 --> 00:22:58,877
a 50-year-old decision.
517
00:22:58,977 --> 00:23:00,645
And affirmative action as well.
518
00:23:00,745 --> 00:23:02,114
I mean, it's not
as though the court
519
00:23:02,214 --> 00:23:04,749
is not deciding affirmative
action over and over again.
520
00:23:04,850 --> 00:23:06,718
This is like, you just
keep going till you
521
00:23:06,818 --> 00:23:08,153
get the court you want.
522
00:23:08,253 --> 00:23:11,022
In 1979 in the Bakke
case, affirmative action
523
00:23:11,123 --> 00:23:13,658
in college admissions was
challenged and upheld.
524
00:23:13,725 --> 00:23:16,862
It was upheld again
then in the Grutter case
525
00:23:16,962 --> 00:23:18,196
out of University of Michigan.
526
00:23:18,296 --> 00:23:20,332
Then in 2016 again
in the Fisher case,
527
00:23:20,432 --> 00:23:21,566
University of Texas.
528
00:23:21,666 --> 00:23:23,902
And after the University
of Texas loss,
529
00:23:24,002 --> 00:23:26,905
the man who has been
behind this whole effort
530
00:23:27,005 --> 00:23:30,142
basically said, using
a kind of a clue
531
00:23:30,242 --> 00:23:33,245
from the dissent of
Justices Thomas and Alito,
532
00:23:33,345 --> 00:23:35,747
I think I need
Asian-American plaintiffs.
533
00:23:35,847 --> 00:23:38,950
And he set about
crafting a set of claims
534
00:23:39,050 --> 00:23:41,820
that race conscious
admissions is
535
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:43,789
actually discriminatory
against Asian-Americans.
536
00:23:43,889 --> 00:23:46,591
And that's the claim
that he had brought
537
00:23:46,691 --> 00:23:49,060
in Harvard, at Harvard.
538
00:23:49,161 --> 00:23:51,696
And that's the case that's
now before the Supreme Court.
539
00:23:51,763 --> 00:23:54,166
But should the Supreme
Court be hearing this again
540
00:23:54,266 --> 00:23:56,902
when they just heard it in 2016
and before that just heard it
541
00:23:57,002 --> 00:23:58,403
in 2002 and before that just?
542
00:23:58,503 --> 00:24:01,640
But it's a new court, right.
543
00:24:01,673 --> 00:24:02,974
And so you basically
you have somebody
544
00:24:03,074 --> 00:24:05,710
who keeps coming back, and now
they have the court they want.
545
00:24:05,811 --> 00:24:07,679
OK, but this scares me
about the court though.
546
00:24:07,779 --> 00:24:08,980
The court we have now.
547
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,550
I mean, the Supreme
Court has really been
548
00:24:11,650 --> 00:24:13,452
our only recourse for justice.
549
00:24:13,552 --> 00:24:14,986
I mean, pretty much
everything that we've
550
00:24:15,086 --> 00:24:17,989
gotten as far as rights, right,
has been based on a decision
551
00:24:18,089 --> 00:24:19,090
from the Supreme Court.
552
00:24:19,191 --> 00:24:21,993
Now like you said, Roe
has been overturned.
553
00:24:22,093 --> 00:24:23,361
What do we do now?
554
00:24:23,462 --> 00:24:24,896
How do we get past this court?
555
00:24:24,996 --> 00:24:27,799
Well, I think actually
it's a sobering moment for us
556
00:24:27,899 --> 00:24:29,968
to recognize that although
I think many of us
557
00:24:30,068 --> 00:24:31,503
grew up in a period of
time where we believe
558
00:24:31,670 --> 00:24:33,004
that, it's in fact, not true.
559
00:24:33,104 --> 00:24:35,073
It is true that the court
decided Brown vs Board
560
00:24:35,173 --> 00:24:38,110
of Education, which ended
legal apartheid in this country
561
00:24:38,210 --> 00:24:39,978
and really changed
American democracy.
562
00:24:40,078 --> 00:24:41,813
And there have been
many other civil rights
563
00:24:41,913 --> 00:24:43,882
decisions from the court
that have been wonderful.
564
00:24:43,982 --> 00:24:45,684
Most of them have
not been wonderful
565
00:24:45,750 --> 00:24:48,687
actually in the history of the
United States Supreme Court.
566
00:24:48,753 --> 00:24:50,222
And so we've always
had to supplement
567
00:24:50,322 --> 00:24:51,790
it with legislative action.
568
00:24:51,890 --> 00:24:53,525
With the Civil
Rights Act of 1964,
569
00:24:53,692 --> 00:24:55,694
with the Voting
Rights Act of 1965,
570
00:24:55,727 --> 00:24:58,363
with the Fair
Housing Act of 1968.
571
00:24:58,463 --> 00:25:01,433
We've had to supplement
it with direct action,
572
00:25:01,533 --> 00:25:03,301
with protests, with boycotts.
573
00:25:03,401 --> 00:25:05,403
We've had to supplement
it with education.
574
00:25:05,504 --> 00:25:07,806
We've had to supplement
it in all kinds of ways.
575
00:25:07,906 --> 00:25:10,242
And so it's always been
a multi-pronged strategy.
576
00:25:10,342 --> 00:25:13,378
The problem we have now
though, is that the court seems
577
00:25:13,478 --> 00:25:16,314
bent on dismantling
the successes we
578
00:25:16,414 --> 00:25:17,649
make in those other realms.
579
00:25:17,749 --> 00:25:20,218
And so we see that
with, for example,
580
00:25:20,318 --> 00:25:23,121
the Voting Rights Act, which
has been severely weakened
581
00:25:23,221 --> 00:25:24,456
by this Supreme Court.
582
00:25:24,556 --> 00:25:26,458
That's where we have to
really start to get worried.
583
00:25:26,558 --> 00:25:28,660
And it is a real problem.
584
00:25:28,727 --> 00:25:30,295
It is not something
to be taken lightly.
585
00:25:30,395 --> 00:25:33,665
And it's not just a partisan
battle, as many people think.
586
00:25:33,765 --> 00:25:35,734
I've been a civil rights
lawyer for 30 years.
587
00:25:35,834 --> 00:25:37,469
You win some and you lose some.
588
00:25:37,569 --> 00:25:39,538
The rule of law is
that you abide by what
589
00:25:39,671 --> 00:25:40,839
the court says and does.
590
00:25:40,939 --> 00:25:42,274
But you do that
with the knowledge
591
00:25:42,374 --> 00:25:45,544
that the court is behaving
fairly and with integrity
592
00:25:45,677 --> 00:25:46,878
and legitimately.
593
00:25:46,978 --> 00:25:50,715
And when you start feeling
like decisions are being made
594
00:25:50,816 --> 00:25:53,185
without the proper
foundation, then it
595
00:25:53,285 --> 00:25:54,886
gets very hard to
convince your clients
596
00:25:54,986 --> 00:25:56,321
that it's a fair system.
597
00:25:56,421 --> 00:25:59,524
And so I think we are in
a kind of perilous moment
598
00:25:59,624 --> 00:26:01,526
as it relates to the court.
599
00:26:01,626 --> 00:26:02,661
Before you go,
I know, you said
600
00:26:02,761 --> 00:26:04,162
something I want to get to.
601
00:26:04,262 --> 00:26:07,732
That you said our democracy,
we're, it's like a teenager,
602
00:26:07,833 --> 00:26:10,535
we're teenagers, we're
young, it's like teenagers.
603
00:26:10,635 --> 00:26:11,536
So what?
604
00:26:11,636 --> 00:26:12,904
Democracy is what?
605
00:26:13,004 --> 00:26:16,875
Staying up all night on
Snapchat or something?
606
00:26:16,975 --> 00:26:19,177
You know, I mean, yes.
607
00:26:19,277 --> 00:26:20,812
Like teenagers who
think they know
608
00:26:20,912 --> 00:26:25,317
everything, who have a
grandiose sense of themselves,
609
00:26:25,417 --> 00:26:26,651
who throw tantrums.
610
00:26:26,751 --> 00:26:28,220
Yes, we are.
611
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,722
I mean, if you think about
American democracy, at least
612
00:26:30,822 --> 00:26:35,494
for me, I wouldn't count
America as a democracy.
613
00:26:35,660 --> 00:26:38,763
Certainly as a nation, but not
as a democracy until at least
614
00:26:38,864 --> 00:26:40,966
1954 when Brown was decided.
615
00:26:41,066 --> 00:26:43,235
Because you can't call
a country a democracy--
616
00:26:43,335 --> 00:26:46,738
[applause]
617
00:26:46,838 --> 00:26:50,542
--if by law, a whole
segment of citizens
618
00:26:50,675 --> 00:26:52,277
can be denied the
right to participate
619
00:26:52,377 --> 00:26:53,512
in the political system.
620
00:26:53,678 --> 00:26:55,580
So that's just, and that's
being pretty generous.
621
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,149
That's 1954.
622
00:26:57,249 --> 00:26:59,484
I would take it to 1965
with the Voting Rights
623
00:26:59,618 --> 00:27:00,685
Act, because--
624
00:27:00,786 --> 00:27:03,121
[applause]
625
00:27:03,221 --> 00:27:05,257
--before the passage of
the Voting Rights Act,
626
00:27:05,357 --> 00:27:07,025
even though the
right of Black people
627
00:27:07,125 --> 00:27:09,427
should have been guaranteed by
the 14th and 15th Amendments
628
00:27:09,528 --> 00:27:12,330
to the Constitution, enacted
and ratified after the Civil
629
00:27:12,430 --> 00:27:15,100
War, most Black people
then lived in the South,
630
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,435
and still live in the
South, and most of the South
631
00:27:17,536 --> 00:27:19,171
was denying the vote
to Black people.
632
00:27:19,271 --> 00:27:24,009
So until 1965, I wouldn't call
us even credibly a democracy.
633
00:27:24,109 --> 00:27:26,845
And if you think of it that
way, then we are young.
634
00:27:26,945 --> 00:27:28,880
And so we're still
figuring this thing out.
635
00:27:28,980 --> 00:27:30,415
And I'd say, Wanda, just
to give people hope--
636
00:27:30,515 --> 00:27:31,550
Please!
Give me some hope.
637
00:27:31,650 --> 00:27:32,684
I'm going to
give you some hope.
638
00:27:32,784 --> 00:27:34,085
Please!
639
00:27:34,186 --> 00:27:36,455
Please, Sherrilyn,
give me some hope!
640
00:27:36,555 --> 00:27:38,657
We're also trying
to do something
641
00:27:38,757 --> 00:27:40,258
that no other country has done.
642
00:27:40,358 --> 00:27:44,496
There is no template for the
kind of multiracial democracy
643
00:27:44,663 --> 00:27:48,333
with the kind of history of
white supremacy and slavery.
644
00:27:48,433 --> 00:27:49,935
There's no other
country that's trying
645
00:27:50,035 --> 00:27:53,839
to do that in the dynamic
way that we are doing it.
646
00:27:53,939 --> 00:27:56,374
We talk about being a nation
of immigrants, which is not
647
00:27:56,475 --> 00:27:58,143
entirely true,
but immigration is
648
00:27:58,243 --> 00:28:00,712
a huge part of the
character of our country.
649
00:28:00,812 --> 00:28:02,781
And 20th century
immigration, for sure,
650
00:28:02,881 --> 00:28:05,550
made the country have
the cast that it does.
651
00:28:05,650 --> 00:28:07,185
And so we're trying
to create something
652
00:28:07,285 --> 00:28:08,286
we're not trying
to do something
653
00:28:08,386 --> 00:28:09,654
like another country.
654
00:28:09,754 --> 00:28:12,190
We're not pointing to them and
saying, oh yeah, like that.
655
00:28:12,290 --> 00:28:14,192
We are trying to do
something very particular,
656
00:28:14,292 --> 00:28:15,460
and it's hard.
657
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,262
And that's what I'm currently
writing a book about.
658
00:28:17,362 --> 00:28:18,663
It's called Is This America?
659
00:28:18,763 --> 00:28:21,800
And it is about
race, but it is also
660
00:28:21,900 --> 00:28:24,536
about what I think of at
this moment as the last best
661
00:28:24,636 --> 00:28:27,139
chance for us to really
create a healthy democracy
662
00:28:27,239 --> 00:28:28,406
in this country.
663
00:28:28,507 --> 00:28:33,445
OK, well, when you finish
the book, I won't be here,
664
00:28:33,545 --> 00:28:35,180
but I'm sure they'll
bring you back
665
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,383
and there'll be a nice white
guy sitting here, interviewer.
666
00:28:38,483 --> 00:28:40,685
OK, thank you so much.
667
00:28:40,786 --> 00:28:43,889
And we're going to
take a break and we'll
668
00:28:43,989 --> 00:28:44,923
be right back after this.
669
00:28:45,023 --> 00:28:47,793
[applause]
670
00:28:57,201 --> 00:28:58,169
[applause]
671
00:28:58,202 --> 00:29:01,239
Well, that's our
show for tonight.
672
00:29:01,272 --> 00:29:02,440
I'm out of here.
673
00:29:02,473 --> 00:29:05,543
But tune in next week
because your new guest host
674
00:29:05,576 --> 00:29:07,612
is going to be my
friend DL Hughley.
675
00:29:07,645 --> 00:29:09,614
And if you want
to catch me again,
676
00:29:09,647 --> 00:29:12,450
I'll be in Philadelphia
February 3 and 4
677
00:29:12,483 --> 00:29:14,185
filming my new hour special.
678
00:29:14,218 --> 00:29:16,387
Check out the link
below for tickets.
679
00:29:16,420 --> 00:29:21,225
Now here it is,
"Your Moment of Zen."
680
00:29:21,259 --> 00:29:22,360
--great tennis star.
681
00:29:22,393 --> 00:29:23,761
Is it Stefano "See-see-pus"?
682
00:29:23,794 --> 00:29:24,929
ANCHOR: Tsitsipas.
- Tsitsipas.
683
00:29:24,962 --> 00:29:26,030
ANCHOR: Tsitsipas
- Tsitsipas.
684
00:29:26,063 --> 00:29:27,298
ANCHOR: I'm actually
watching it right now.
685
00:29:27,331 --> 00:29:28,299
It's hilarious.
- "Sissy-pas."
686
00:29:28,332 --> 00:29:29,467
ANCHOR: Tsitsipas
- Not "Sissy."
687
00:29:29,500 --> 00:29:30,468
Tsitsipas.
- "Sit-sy."
688
00:29:30,501 --> 00:29:32,203
Tsitsipas.
"Tsitsi--"
689
00:29:32,236 --> 00:29:33,571
- Look at the pronunciation--
- Yeah, it's wrong.
690
00:29:33,604 --> 00:29:34,739
- It's not "See-see-pas."
- No.
691
00:29:34,772 --> 00:29:35,873
- It's "Sit-sy."
- Tsitsipas.
692
00:29:35,907 --> 00:29:36,874
Tsitsipas.
693
00:29:36,908 --> 00:29:37,875
Yeah.
694
00:29:37,909 --> 00:29:39,143
[laughs]
695
00:29:39,176 --> 00:29:39,243
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