In New York City, the only city in America--
it's the show that invented news.
This is The Daily Show, with your host, Kal Penn.
[cheering, applause]
Welcome to The Daily Show.
I'm Kal Penn!
I'm back for night two!
Now, listen, after last night's show--
this is very sweet.
I got so many encouraging words from some
of my political colleagues, and I wanted to read some of them
for you.
This is an email I got from Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
It says, Kal, if you don't donate $5 by tonight,
we're all going to die.
Thank you, Nancy.
That was so touching.
Anyway, we've got a great show for you tonight.
Our guest tonight is the foreign minister of Pakistan.
But first, let's get into the headlines!
OK, let's kick things off with a big announcement
from President Joe Biden.
You remember during the 2020 campaign, Biden said this.
By the way, no more drilling on federal lands, period.
Period, period, period.
Period, period, period!
Comma.
Because now, Biden has approved a major oil
drilling project on federal land
in Alaska, which is disappointing.
[booing]
But hey, when you're that age, that's the only kind
of drilling you can do.
No, come on.
I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
This guy [bleeps].
The crazy part about this drilling project
is that they'll be installing a device called a thermo siphon
that keeps the permafrost solid enough
for drilling while it simultaneously
melts due to global warming.
Yes, ConocoPhillips has an irony division.
I mean, keeping the permafrost alive
so they can kill it slowly--
that's like some Silence of the Lambs serial-killer shit.
Would you [bleep] the planet?
I'd [bleep] the planet.
I worked at the White House.
[laughter]
Now.
[cheering, applause]
Thank you.
Now, listen, listen.
The good news-- the good news is that Biden is also
flipflopping in a good way.
Because back in the day, Biden used to think marijuana
was a gateway drug.
But now, he's doing stuff like this.
President Biden is offering help
to people who have a federal conviction for
simple marijuana possession.
They can now apply for a presidential pardon.
To qualify, applicants must have been charged or convicted
in federal court or DC Superior Court
before October 6 of last year.
This is huge!
And this is long overdue!
Yeah!
And look, heartfelt, this is a moment
of special congrats to the advocates
who have been pushing for this for so long.
They really did it.
Now, they convinced someone with five
decades of experience in Washington to change his mind.
That's not easy.
That would be like convincing Mitch McConnell to let
Democrats appoint judges or convincing Chuck Schumer
that his glasses should be resting
on the top of his nose.
Top.
In any case, if you're wondering what the Oval Office
looks like, now that Joe Biden is a total stoner,
it probably looks something like this.
It's the same.
It's 2023.
People who smoke weed don't put tapestries on their
wall anymore.
I mean, yeah, the portrait of George Washington
does glow in black light now, but that's it.
Mostly the same.
Anyway, let's move on to some science news.
Apparently, NASA is tracking an asteroid
that could slam into Earth on Valentine's Day in 2046, which
means that friend of yours who always does those sad
Valentine's Day posts like "I'm going to die alone"
actually is.
Yeah.
But if you're in a relationship, then in a way,
it would kind of be beautiful to die on Valentine's Day,
you know?
Making sweet love with your partner one last time--
or if you're married, laying in bed, too full from dinner
to have sex, watching Paul Blart one last time.
Either way, super romantic.
In other scientific news, researchers
did a study on flamingos.
And it turns out that flamingos form cliques,
just like highschoolers.
This is one of those studies where
I feel like we need to know more about the scientists who
did this study.
Because maybe the flamingos just didn't want to hang
out with them specifically.
Seriously, though, this sounds terrible.
It's tough enough being a flamingo.
Now, you also have to deal with flamingo mean girls?
They must be so cruel.
Do you see how short her neck is?
Oh, my god.
It's giving emu.
And look at her legs.
They're like a whole centimeter thick!
It's like paging Dr. Cankles!
I heard she got a beak enhancement,
and the zookeeper paid for it.
They're, like, totally [bleep],, right?
Oh, wait, wait. She's coming over here.
Hi, Jenny! Oh, my god.
Do you know what?
You look incredible!
OK, bye!
Ugh, I literally hate her.
And finally-- thank you.
[cheering, applause]
Ridiculous.
And finally, let's check in on my home state of New Jersey.
I'm sure-- I'm sure they're not doing
anything incredibly stupid.
The city of Newark is admitting it got scammed.
Earlier this year, Mayor Ras Baraka
invited who he thought was the Hindu nation of Kailasa
to City Hall for a cultural trade agreement
and to become sister cities.
But it turns out, Kailasa isn't a real nation, but rather
the invention of a scam artist and fugitive who's from India,
who's been on the run since 2019.
I have the immunity of non-prosecutable
and immunity and protection as the head of the state.
REPORTER: He was arrested there years earlier,
accused of sexual assault charges
by five women who say he abused them at a religious retreat.
Back in New Jersey, a few days after this ceremony,
the city says it realized it had been deceived, calling it,
quote, "a regrettable incident."
Jesus, Newark.
How can an entire city get catfished?
Not a single person realized they never
heard of this country before?
Not on a globe, not at the Olympics,
not as a stage in "Street Fighter"?
Look, if you can't find it as a cuisine on Grubhub,
it's not a real country.
There must have been so many red flags--
the biggest one being that anyone
wanted to be sister cities with Newark.
Although, look, to be fair, just
because a country was started by a sex criminal,
doesn't mean it's fake.
Just ask Thomas Jefferson.
For more on this, please give it up for Desi Lydic.
[cheering, applause]
Deci, what did-- what did you make of this story?
Oh.
Well, Kal, as a white person, I would like to know
what you think of this story.
Because for me, this is a little dicey.
I don't want to upset anybody with any statements about
whether Kailasa's a real country.
OK, well, it's not.
It's not a real country.
It's a cult.
Right, right, right.
But even so, I honor its culture
and its rich traditions.
Because what is culture if not culture?
Desi, come on!
Look how they're dressed!
Does that look real to you?
Uh, yes?
No? No.
No!
What-- those are just costumes!
Whoa, Kal, their culture is not a costume.
No, that is literally a costume.
Desi, I understand what you're trying to do.
You want to be an ally.
I definitely appreciate that.
But Kailasa does not deserve your allyship.
Its leader is a sexual predator.
Oh, absolutely.
Yes, and I condemn all sexual predators.
At the same time, it is important to support diversity
among sexual predators.
No!
No, no no, it's not!
Desi, stop!
This is a cult, and they scammed the city of Newark.
Of course they did.
Yes, yes, they did.
And they've been forced into a cult, into cult behaviors,
by Western imperialism.
And isn't that the real scam?
No! No!
Well, yes, yes, but no, wait, now you're confusing me.
Hold on.
There is no Western imperialism against Kailasa.
There is no Kailasa.
There are no Kailasians.
We say Kailasians-x now.
No, we don't!
Desi, look.
Look, I-- I am giving you permission to criticize
this fake country.
On behalf of brown people, it's OK.
Oh, I'm not worried about brown people, Kal.
I'm worried about other white people.
If I disrespect this fake nation,
they'll make my real Twitter a living hell.
Does Kailasa look like a scammy cult?
Yes.
Do I trust white people on Twitter
to know the difference?
No.
Which is why I am proud to announce that The Daily
Show, hosted by Kal Penn, is now also
a sister city with Kailasa.
KAL PENN: What! No, no!
Yes.
No, no!
No, don't put my name on that!
No!
You put me on this? - Yes.
No!
Oh, my gosh, no!
Oh, my gosh!
No, get out of here!
All right, Desi Lydic, everyone.
Whew!
Next, I'll be taking you on a tour of my favorite sport.
We'll be right back.
[applause]
Thank you.
Welcome back to the Daily Show.
Look, a lot of people would be surprised to know
that one of my favorite sports is NASCAR.
Now, I know I don't look like your stereotypical NASCAR fan.
But I also don't look like your stereotypical Abercrombie
and Fitch homosexual, yet here we are.
So what do I love about NASCAR?
Take a look.
Yeah, I know you're looking at me,
and you're like, seriously, Kal?
You've been a NASCAR fan for 12 years?
Yes, my fellow blue state libs.
Grab a beer and come with me.
NASCAR has it all.
Day drinking, grilling, whoever this guy is,
and whoever this guy is.
Wait, is that Kid Rock?
This is so cool.
And I could yell whatever the I want
because no one can hear me.
You get here on this track and you
feel the rumble inside you when those cars are going around.
I'm getting chills just thinking about it right now.
I felt the rumble in my dick.
Yeah, exactly.
I wasn't mad about it.
I'm not mad about it either.
Yes.
OK, here's the deal.
NASCAR is different from what you probably think.
I feel like people think it's just
really like a redneck thing.
And I mean, it kind of is, but it's for everyone, you know?
I'm like, I've watched NASCAR since I
was like 12, or before then, because of my parents
going to NASCAR races.
Black people love racing.
People may not realize how much African-Americans
love not just NASCAR, any form of racing.
Bubba Wallace is one of the biggest stars in the sport.
And he happens to agree.
I think from outside looking in,
especially minorities feel the stigma has been there
that they're not welcome.
And I've always been like, that's not really true.
I've been in NASCAR, my career has been 20 years.
Yeah, 20 years is about right.
Actually, 29.
About 29, OK, wow.
I can tell you right now, there
is no New Jersey parent who would
let their kid drive at 9.
So I always get the question, what's it like being
an Indian-American actor.
I would imagine it also drives you
insane to get the question, oh, what's
it like being a black driver?
So what's it like being a black driver?
So clickbait and news outlets,
they have to get their viewership up.
And the way they do that is black driver.
I don't walk around saying, I'm the black driver.
So yeah.
You embrace it and you go out and enjoy what you do.
After I got my media clickbait,
we moved on to an issue that everyday Americans
actually care about.
All right, a lot of people really want to know this.
How do you pee at 400 miles.
I can't go 45 minutes without having--
Yes.
So have you ever been in a high-adrenaline moment?
Well, I once rode a cheetah in a movie.
Did you have to pee during that moment?
- No. - Exactly.
So you're really in the zone then for that.
That's awesome. - Yeah.
And they always say if you do pee in the car,
then you got to be there Monday morning to clean it out.
- Oh. - Do you want clean it out?
You don't have somebody for that?
They're not going to do it.
Ears.
Here's another stereotype.
Drivers aren't real athletes, they just lazily
sit there making left turns.
The athleticism side of it, to me,
our heart rates peak at about 170.
And then during the race, you're around the 140 area.
That's a high heart rate for a sustained long period of time.
And hydration is huge.
I can lose up to about 7 pounds in the race car on a hot day.
In one race?
Yes, sir.
Oh, can I drive this race?
I would love to look a little--
- You got good physique, man. - Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
I appreciate that.
And the drivers aren't the only jocks on the track.
Meet Delondo Andino, a former college athlete
who trained as a tire changer after being
recruited through NASCAR's diversity initiative.
Everybody knows how to change a tire-- well,
I don't know how to change a tire.
But what's the big deal about changing tires?
It's just about how fast you can do it.
One tire can take like maybe two or three seconds.
We did reps after reps after reps every time,
because I think 2/10 of a second cost a lot
of money for a team if you make a mistake.
As someone who was recently told he had a good physique,
I knew that joining the pit crew would be easy.
So like, the jacked man's jacking the car up.
I'm like, jack that shit it up. He jacks it up.
The guy's giving him some gas.
I grabbed the other tire, because I got to take it out.
And I bring it back like this, and I kick it over there.
And then everyone's like, you're
almost going to [bleep].
So I grab it like that, and I bring it back over here.
And I'm like, OK, great job.
And the driver takes off, so he wins the race,
and we win a lot of money.
Yeah, in theory.
I think we missed a couple of steps.
Yeah, and that's a penalty.
After crushing it with the pit crew,
I wanted to see if there were any indoor jobs
with air conditioning.
There's just so much more data and science that
goes into it than I think anybody
really realizes when they see cars going
around in circles, right?
So data comes from the cars, and then
the car has its speed, it's got its RPM and the gear
that it's in.
That's like, is the car loose?
Like, wants to spin out, or is it tight?
We look at what the driver is doing with the wheel
and then we try and tell him, hey,
you need to turn the wheel less.
Or you need to be on the gas more.
This sounds like cheating.
Tom Brady fans would love this.
Absolutely.
As a number crunching genius, JR represents the new NASCAR,
and has had a front row seat to the sport's evolution.
The sport's way different than it has been in the past.
My husband and I talk about it all the time.
Even myself working for Bubba, I think a lot of people
have always thought that this sport was kind of out
of reach, not only because they couldn't get into the sport,
but also because they wouldn't be accepted by the sport.
And I think that just being out there and being vocal
is super important.
And I never thought 12-year-old me would be doing it.
Well, this was 12-year-old me,
and he would have been terrified
by what I'm about to do.
Where do I connect the Bluetooth for the podcast?
Oh, I wish.
These things are meant for it to go fast, so anything extra,
we just pull out of the car.
OK.
I can't drive stick, is that a problem?
- No, you're good. - OK.
We basically just put you in fourth gear
and just push you off, man.
Do only the snowflake drivers get the push
since we can't drive stick?
Pretty much.
Here we go.
This is real inclusion.
NASCAR making space for athletes like me
who can't drive stick.
Off the clutch, give it gas.
Off the clutch, give it gas, give it gas.
That left pedal, push it in.
Grab that stick and put it all the way down to the right.
What stick?
The shifter.
It's that big stick in the middle right
there of that car.
OK.
So you're saying pull it-- push it forward?
There you go.
You're doing good out there.
All good.
This is awesome.
Oh, I can feel my dick.
Little scared at first, right?
- Yeah. - Yeah.
But then I was like, getting into it.
And then after I peed my pants, it was such a relief.
That was awesome.
OK, that was fun and I lost 2 pounds.
But there is a more social way to enjoy racing.
Hey, guys.
Can I come up?
Yes, thank you.
This is the infield where families
camp out for the weekend to watch the races up close.
- Are you thirsty? - Sure.
There you are. Cheers.
Thank you. Cheers.
Thank you guys.
How long have you been coming here?
For 23 years.
We're all family.
You definitely have the best view.
And that's really what NASCAR is all about.
Family, speed, and crushing beers on top of an RV
with a group of new friends.
Cheers.
[music playing]
All right, stay tuned.
Because when we come back, the foreign minister of Pakistan
will be joining me, so don't go away.
[applause]
[cheering, applause]
Welcome back to The Daily Show.
My guest tonight is the foreign minister of Pakistan.
Please welcome Bilawal Bhutto Zardari.
[cheering, applause]
Welcome. - Thank you.
Thank you for having me. - Of course.
Thanks for being here.
For folks who don't know, your mom
was former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto,
who was assassinated in 2007.
But now, you are the youngest foreign minister
in Pakistan's history.
You're 34.
And you're a very young country.
I think the median age in Pakistan is only 20,
something like that, roughly.
Yeah.
60% of our population are beneath the age of 35.
KAL PENN: Wow.
So how does your age create an opportunity for leadership
in a country that's so young?
Oh, that's an interesting question.
I think that most of--
if you look at the politics in Pakistan
or the political landscape, it's
one or two generations above me that are the main players.
So I'm sure that given that I am so young,
I bring a unique perspective.
And I think that's so important.
Because everybody who is in power right now
or in positions of influence and making decisions
for our country--
they'll live for 10, 20 years.
We have to think about the long picture, and now,
climate change, and poverty, and all the income inequality
and discrimination that people are facing across the country.
How are we going to address those issues in the long term?
Do you feel like there's ever a generational divide
between the people who you--
I think, absolutely.
I think it's been an experience working
with people from a whole host of different age groups.
And absolutely, I felt, sort of,
throughout my political career, just
as a result of my age, perhaps the same ideas,
same suggestions, given from other people of a more
senior age, would be taken more seriously,
as opposed to coming from a younger perspective.
But at the same time, I think I'd
like to say I've proven over the course of time,
whether I was in opposition or as foreign minister,
that age is just a number, and we can
still get quite a lot done.
So it's timely having you here tonight.
Right now, you know, Pakistan is facing some unrest
over the imminent arrest of former Prime
Minister Imran Khan.
Mr. Khan says that your government wants him arrested,
so that he's disqualified from upcoming elections.
Is that true?
So unfortunately, Pakistan is facing a perfect storm.
Not only do we have heightened partisanship
and political polarization, to the extent
that political parties or political stakeholders
aren't even in a position to sit in a room
and discuss issues amongst themselves,
we're also facing an economic crisis.
We are facing a security threat and security
crisis in the fallout from the fall of the Afghan government
and the increasing the terrorist attacks that
are taking place with increasing
frequency in Pakistan.
We just faced the biggest climate catastrophe
of our history, where 1/3 of the landmass of our country
was under water.
That's something that my generation, generations
to come, are going to be paying the price for the decisions
that others have taken.
And unfortunately, in all this chaos and in all these--
while we're facing these simultaneous crises,
we have to question of Mr. Khan, who believes
that the Pakistani Constitution doesn't apply to him,
the Pakistani law doesn't apply to him,
that he can get up and leave.
He's resigned from parliament and run away from the system.
In this particular instance, it's not a question of me
wanting to arrest Mr. Khan.
I come from a family who faced genuine arrest in the face
of military dictatorships.
My mom-- my mother-- when she was younger than me,
she battled an Islamist dictator at the time,
who threw her in prison.
My father spent 11 and 1/2 years in prison
and was tortured without a conviction.
I would never want any politician
in my country or any country to go
to jail for political reasons.
In Mr Khan's case, he's under the threat
of arrest because of his ego.
He says-- the courts are saying that he has to come to court
and fight his cases, whatever cases are against him.
And he says, I'm Imran Khan, and I'm too important,
and I'm not going to turn up to court.
And what we've seen over the last couple of weeks
has been a complete mockery of the judicial system
in Pakistan, of rule of law, of the Constitution in Pakistan,
where, had he gone to court, there's probably no reason he
had to fear imminent arrest.
Because he's violated court orders time and time again,
finally, the courts have instructed the police
to produce him before court.
But he's called on his citizens, on his workers,
and his supporters to come and confront the police.
The police went to him with no intention of violence.
And as you may be aware, Pakistan's history
is full of politicians who have gone to prison, right, wrong,
or otherwise.
In this case, Mr. Khan is refusing to even
present himself before court.
He's refusing to defend himself.
I'm sure if he's innocent, he'd be able to clear his name
through the judicial system.
So we're caught in a situation where there's
this political chaos playing out on the streets
and distracting from the real issues that are
affecting everyday Pakistanis.
KAL PENN: What does that say about the state of democracy
in Pakistan?
Is it fragile right now?
Absolutely.
Pakistan has been, for most of our history,
under direct military dictatorship.
After the assassination of my mother,
there was a brief period of democratic transition.
Political parties came together.
They reached a consensus that we removed all the dictators
laws from the Constitution, devolved power to parliament,
had peaceful transfer of power for the first time
in our history, from one government to another.
And those people or those forces
that benefit from undemocratic rule in Pakistan
didn't like that.
So they supported Mr. Khan and brought him into power.
And that's now blown up not only
in those individuals' face, but has had severe consequences
for our country.
KAL PENN: You talked about your own family,
and so I just wanted to expand on that.
Because I think, for an American audience especially,
you see a lot of politicians-- not just in Pakistan,
but obviously, many countries, regardless
of political party-- who are accused of corruption,
accused of other charges, in and out of prison,
or violence.
How do you know whether someone has committed
a credible violation of law or whether something
is politically motivated?
What's the litmus there, and how do your voters-- not just
from your party, but overall in Pakistan--
how do they respond to that, and how
do you take that temperature?
So that is something that I've
lived with my entire life.
Because my mother was prime minister of Pakistan
for a few years, but she spent most of her life
in opposition, either in country, in prison,
or in exile, fighting not one but two
military dictatorships.
She spent those 30 years of her life
fighting politically motivated cases,
where the perception was built in the media
and otherwise, this corruption and a whole host
of allegations.
After she was assassinated, her name
has been cleared from each and every single case
that was lodged against her in her lifetime.
And I, as her son and who's someone
who lived through that, really wish
that it happened while she was still here and amongst us.
Unfortunately, that was the tradition
of Pakistani politics.
After my mother's assassination,
the big political parties in Pakistan came together,
and they said, look, if we're going to be fighting
amongst ourselves all the time and taking
our political differences as personal differences,
and whoever is in power-- they arrest the opposition,
then we're never going to get anything done as a country.
And we saw a gap of 10 years where
we didn't go after each other, where
two different political parties came into power.
They served out their term, were voted out
from the people, and the next political party
came into place.
Mr. Khan is the one who, unfortunately,
broke those presidencies.
So you're talking about, essentially,
what sounds like a fragile democracy
and things that are malleable and moving back and forth.
To what extent does that impact economics in Pakistan?
I know that right now, the IMF and you are sort of at odds.
And I know they're withholding some money
until tax reforms are met.
I believe that was-- correct me if I'm wrong.
That was negotiated by a previous government,
but now, you're in power.
Mr. Khan.
KAL PENN: --your party needs to follow
up on what was negotiated.
So how does that political instability
then affect economics?
So two things-- as far as, how democratic
are we right now, I would say we're in a
democratic transition.
And I hope that this goes well and we
transition towards a more democratic society.
Because I believe that Pakistan is facing
a whole host of problems, but no matter the problem,
the answer is more democracy.
But I might be wrong, and it could go the other way.
As far as our economic situation
is concerned, as I mentioned, we're in the perfect storm.
You're absolutely right.
The deal with the IMF is made by the previous government,
and the previous government violated
that deal with the IMF.
They put Pakistan in an extremely
precarious economic situation.
We're also, like the rest of the world,
feeling the economic impacts of the war in Ukraine,
of the COVID pandemic.
And at the same time, as a result,
the fall of Kabul a year ago--
we've seen the return to terrorism in our country,
an increase in terrorist activity-- that has
its own impact on economics--
and the climate catastrophe-- the floods
that took out 5 million acres of standing crops.
One in seven Pakistanis-- that's 33 million people--
were affected.
Many people are still affected.
KAL PENN: I wanted to ask you about that--
All of these things coming together-- sorry.
All of these things coming together
put our economy under incredible strain and stress.
And you're absolutely right.
Our negotiations are still ongoing and have not
been concluded with the IMF.
And I completely-- I'm actually left-of-center political party
who, within our own politics, calls for an increase in tax
revenue, sort of, addressing the income
inequalities, et cetera.
But at this point of time, I think that when Pakistan is
facing such a perfect storm--
some problems of our own creation,
but some, like the flood and others, that are of our own--
that the conversation with the IMF
really should take that into account, and I don't think it
is at the moment.
But in terms of how the tax structure works in Pakistan,
I don't want to get too in the weeds on tax structure.
I know that's not your job.
But one of the things that I was
reminded of when I was prepping for our conversation--
I know that you're from--
historically from a relatively wealthy landowning family,
and there are many in Pakistan.
Do you know who Bernie Sanders is?
Yes, I do. I know who Bernie is.
So Bernie-- you know, Bernie's a big
fan of making sure the 1% pay their fair share and all that.
Big topic here.
Is there a version of that in Pakistan?
Can the wealthiest families do something to sort of
help economically in a way--
That's so interesting that you ask that question.
From the mainstream political parties in Pakistan, with
the Pakistan People's Party--
and we are the left-of-center political party.
Today, we're a left-of-center political party.
When we started out, we were actually
a socialist political party.
And my grandfather was heading the party at the time,
became the country's prime minister,
and that's exactly what he did.
He rebelled against his own class,
because he was a rich, wealthy landlord
that owned masses of land.
But he led land reforms, which took away
vast amounts of lands for the wealthy
and redistributed it amongst the landless people
of the area.
He read industrial reforms, where 22 families in Pakistan
had, like, a death grip on our economy,
and they own all the industry in our country.
So then, he nationalized the industry,
so that it worked for the many and not for the few,
a la Bernie.
At the moment, unfortunately, where we are in Pakistan
is very far away from the vision that the founders
of my party laid out or the efforts that my mother did,
as far as addressing the gap between the rich and poor.
And what we have is a system where the elites like myself
can weather these storms without much pain
or without feeling much difference.
But whether it is our deals with the IMF
or our own internal economic policy,
there's an outsized burden on the poorest of the poor.
There's an outsized burden on the bottom of the pyramid.
And what we'd like to see--
I believe the only way for us to have a functioning economy
that works for everyone would be not only for everyone
to pay their fair share, as far as taxation is concerned,
but we do need a fundamental reform about how we talk
about our economy and what decisions we take domestically
in order to achieve that.
I know that last year, you did a lot of work raising
awareness on the fact that 1/3 of your country
was underwater from those devastating floods.
That's, obviously, faded from international news since then.
Can you give us an update on the status
of the people affected?
BILAWAL BHUTTO ZARDARI: Thank you so much for asking.
We're a country that has experienced floods
and monsoons consistently.
This was something apocalyptic, out of--
a la Noah's Ark flood's scale.
I've never seen anything like it.
And we're still battling with the consequences.
I absolutely have been raising awareness.
I'm very grateful that the international community stood
with Pakistan, on not one but two occasions--
one at the COP, where Pakistan was
the chair of the developing countries group of G77,
and we helped push for loss and damage
to be included on COP's agenda, which I think
is a big achievement as far as the climate
movement is concerned and the future
of developing countries.
And the second is when we held a Climate Resilient Pakistan
Conference in Geneva, where the international community
stood with us and pledged some money for reconstruction.
As far as attention is concerned, of course,
international media attention span is very small,
and that has moved on.
But the sad thing is that domestic attention
has moved on.
I come from the province of Sindh,
which is the most devastated.
2/3 of our province was underwater
as a result of this flood.
The political conversation has moved on.
We're talking about whether Imran Khan's going
to get arrested or not, and we're not
talking about the millions of people who are, at the moment,
in danger of--
I don't like to throw about words like famine,
but there's a food scarcity issue for them--
the people that are thrown into poverty.
I mean, there's this impression that it's
the completely impoverished people that had no hope
and they're still poor.
It's awful that anybody get affected by floods,
but I just want to emphasize that
of these people, 33 million people that were affected,
some of these people--
I mean, they're not living the most
elitist lives or the most well-off lives,
but they were getting by.
They had their little shop.
They had their little bit of land
that they were eking a living out of.
And they've been thrown into poverty,
and it's going to take us a while to claw back from that.
And until we do so, unfortunately--
I wish I could stand here and say
that my country was paying the attention
that it should to this issue.
But unfortunately, I'm afraid to admit
we're being distracted.
I want to ask you about solutions also.
You mentioned loss and damage.
Is that what you said?
Loss and damage of crops, absolutely.
Can you talk about what that is?
And then, also, what are sort of the plans
on addressing climate longer-term for Pakistan?
OK, so the two arguments around the loss
and damage debate of crops.
The more basic, sort of, more activist approach
to that conversation is that rich countries,
industrialized countries, have created this crisis,
and there are a whole host of countries--
KAL PENN: The climate crisis.
The climate crisis.
And it is a result of their industrialization.
Right?
It's the rich world's industrialization
that the poor world is paying the cost of,
in the form of massive floods or massive droughts.
And there should be some loss of damage for this.
Some people advocate for reparations.
I'm actually not one of those people.
I like to be sort of left in our approach
to politics and things, but I also like to get things done.
KAL PENN: I mean, reparations one is--
I feel like India, Pakistan, and the US could
get some shit from the UK.
That's exactly what I mean, right?
So we haven't got any postcolonial reparations
and slavery reparations.
The conversation hasn't gone anywhere.
I mean, fair enough, the activists who
want to argue for that should, and it's
a legitimate point to make.
But I think a practical approach is for us to say,
OK, loss and damage exists.
Let's decide who's going to pay for it later,
but actually, it's a problem that we
all have to address together.
And international financial institutions
are just not equipped to deal with even one climate tragedy
to the scale of what we faced.
Now, the unfortunate thing is, it's not just one country.
We have historic floods in Pakistan,
we have historic droughts in China, and at the same time,
you've got forest fires here in California, or it's flooding.
And so we need to rework international
financial institutions.
Rather than looking at this as reparations,
how are we going to work together
to come up with the money to address loss and damage
as a result of climate change?
The fight to put loss and damage onto the agenda
is a 30-year-old fight.
At the last COP, it was achieved
under the chairmanship of Egypt,
that it's now going to be on the agenda.
It's going to take a while for this
to be argued out and the international community
to come to a decision.
It's an important-- it's an important achievement,
but rather than--
I don't want us to pit the global North
against the global South, and try and find solutions
to climate change like that.
I believe that this is a problem too big for just
America to deal with on their own or just China
to deal with on their own.
This is something that the world has
to come together and decide, are we
going to be distracted by war and conflict and politics
as usual, or are we going to find
a solution to this problem?
And I have just--
[applause]
Thanks, guys.
And I can say that, like, experiencing--
I've just experienced this from the Pakistani perspective,
from this one flood that wiped out so much
and caused so much devastation, that we're
not equipped for that.
I see how, whether it's domestic politics
or geopolitics-- get in the way of things we even can do now.
So I hope that--
I mean, I know that your president
has done a lot of stuff domestically on climate.
And I really hope that sort of approach--
that sort of mentality is translated
out into the world stage.
And we can work together to sort this out.
By the way, Pakistan is--
we've contributed less than 0.1%
to the global carbon footprint, but we
are amongst the 10 most climate-stressed countries
on the planet.
Did you know that there's a third pole?
There's a North Pole and a South Pole
that we all knew about and we're
worried about its melting.
The third pole is in Pakistan, in the Himalayan regions
of our country.
Is this real, or is this a conspiracy theory thing?
This is real. This is real.
OK.
We like our numbers to go up, so just, you know.
The third pole is technically in Pakistan--
the largest number of glaciers on the peaks
of the mountain ranges between our two countries.
And I'm-- as a result of climate change, obviously,
the North and South Pole are going to be melting,
but this third pole is going to be melting.
Our rivers are fed by these glaciers.
So what that means is, in the short term,
as this pole melts, as these glaciers melt,
we will be faced by floods.
The flood that we just experienced, by the way--
not a riverine flood--
a flood that came from the skies.
We are predicted to face far more greater flooding
from the rivers as these glaciers melt.
Once these glaciers melt, our water source is done.
We won't be able to provide drinking water to the people
that live in my country.
This is one country's problem when
it comes to climate change.
There are a whole host of other countries that are facing--
for them and for us, the crisis is here and now.
This is not a tomorrow issue.
For all of these issues, is there
capacity to take action, both in the short or long term,
for you?
Or is that something that is being worked out?
And I'm asking that also in the context of,
you are clearly very passionate about this issue.
This almost goes back to my first question about,
you being a young leader in Pakistan,
I would imagine you feel this issue
a lot more than others might.
BILAWAL BHUTTO ZARDARI: So the two things-- first of all, I'm
very proud of the fact that my mother's last manifesto
in 2007 before she was assassinated--
she was the first Pakistani politician
to have climate on her agenda.
And I often think that had we started addressing things
then in 2007, 2008, and 2009, maybe
we wouldn't be here today.
But despite all of that, I was not the most hyper
of climate activists.
Like, OK, I got it.
We will do some wind, we'll do some solar,
and hopefully, things will be fine.
My worldview changed overnight when
my home, the villages around it, the people that I know--
suddenly, just water as far as the eye could see.
And now, yeah, frankly, go Greta.
I completely--
[applause]
I-- It is-- we've been forced, forced from--
until it doesn't happen to you, you don't
really know what's coming.
And now that has happened to us, the thought
that this could happen regularly, it devastates me.
Because I've never felt so disempowered in that moment.
What do you do when overnight, 33 million people need
your help, but you don't have the tents, you don't have
the rations, you can't--
we're usually used to drought.
We don't have boats.
How do we get out to these-- it was the most difficult
period in my public life.
And it's not on the agenda.
It's not in the media conversation.
But on the ground, we're feeling this like severely.
This is why I wanted to ask you about it.
I thought it was important work that you're doing.
You know, the Taliban is back in power in Afghanistan.
I think my biggest curiosity--
since they are the government in Afghanistan,
they're your neighbor-- what's it like negotiating with them?
What's it like when you have to--
So that's an interesting question.
So the Taliban in Afghanistan are now in
the interim government there.
And that is a result of the Doha deal process
that they negotiated directly with the United States.
And we, being their neighbor, even though, like the rest
of the world, we haven't recognized them
diplomatically, et cetera, are forced
to engage with the reality on our border.
We can't afford to wash our hands and turn our backs
and pretend that nothing has changed.
And we are advocating, not only for ourselves,
but for the international community,
to also engage with them.
I believe that we were off to a positive start, initially,
but given what's happened with women's education
and their right to access education,
it's becoming an incredibly difficult for me
or others like me who do want to engage with them, who do
want to find solutions to the problems the people
of Afghanistan are facing.
Because they are taking these decisions that, at the very
least, to say it the most diplomatically that I can,
I mean, it's not helping us help them.
And our consistent concern is that whatever happens
in Afghanistan, Pakistan is going to be the first people
to feel the consequences.
There's this old saying that if Kabul sneezes,
Islamabad catches a cold.
And we're already seeing that.
We have-- the United Nations says
that 97% of the population in Afghanistan
are falling beneath the poverty line.
That means that the number of refugees and their exodus
is going to be affected.
Pakistan has already accepted millions of refugees
in the past, but thousands-- hundreds
of thousands of refugees have come
over since the fall of Kabul.
The more the economic situation deteriorates in Afghanistan,
the more cannon fodder the terrorist groups over there
are going to have, the more people
they're going to be able to recruit to their cause.
And we have seen, since the fall of Kabul,
a steady uptick of terrorist activity in Pakistan.
If there's a regime that says that girls can't get education
in Afghanistan, it's not going to be too long
till politicians are going to start popping up
in my neck of the woods, saying that we
should also not let girls have access to education.
So I think, A, it's incredibly important to engage with them.
But at the same time, my request
to them, and through your TV show to them,
would be, let girls learn, guys.
[cheering, applause]
The contrast that you just set up
is certainly pronounced.
And you know, most Americans, I think,
still associate Pakistan with harboring bin Laden,
with issues of terror.
How do we move beyond that, in terms
of US-Pakistan relations?
You know, what's next?
So how do we move beyond that?
I think that at that--
whatever happened during the war on terror
and the entire period that followed--
there's a fog of war.
And that colors everyone's decision-making,
everyone's perception.
What we have now is a reality in Afghanistan, a reality that
has very serious consequences, first for Pakistan, but all
the issues I mentioned.
Whether it's the refugees or terrorism--
Pakistan's problem today-- tomorrow,
it will be other countries problem.
We have to get serious about engaging
on the topic of Afghanistan.
I believe that based on the facts on the ground,
the position and perspective of Pakistan
and the United States-- actually, we meet eye to eye.
We see things quite sim--
you know, we're basically on the same page.
And whatever has happened in the past,
we should be able to have honest conversations
about that.
And there can be many studies and analysis about what
went wrong where, but it's also time for us
to get working together, and what are we
going to do about the future?
What are we going to do about the present day?
And that's what I've been working
on with my counterpart, Secretary Blinken.
KAL PENN: I have one last question for you.
You know, I know, regardless of your political party
or your political opposition, clearly,
you are the youngest person to serve in this role.
What's your message to other young people who feel
called to serve?
Oh, never give up.
And give your best shot.
I can't tell you the amount of times--
for example, when we removed Mr. Khan
from his prime ministership, it was the first time
in Pakistan's history that a dictator didn't
come in and kick out a prime minister,
that a judge didn't order the removal of a prime minister,
but for the first time, our parliament voted them out.
And that idea-- that proposition came from me.
But it took me two years to convince everybody else,
because no one believed that it would happen.
And ultimately, it did.
So the one thing that I've learned from what I'm doing--
that it's difficult and it's tough
and all those other things.
But the more young people we have who get to look at things
for the long term and not just sort of the imminent future,
the short-term solution, that actually
have to live with the consequences
of their decisions--
the better decisions we can make.
Thank you for joining us, and thank you for your candor.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you, Mr. Zardari.
Appreciate it.
OK, we're going to take a quick break,
but we'll be right back after this.
Thank you so much.
Really detailed-- the climate stuff--
[cheering, applause]
[applause]
All right, that's our show for tonight.
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