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In New York City, the
only city in America--
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it's the show that
invented news.
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This is The Daily Show,
with your host, Kal Penn.
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[cheering, applause]
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Welcome to The Daily Show.
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I'm Kal Penn!
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I'm back for night two!
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Now, listen, after
last night's show--
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this is very sweet.
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I got so many encouraging
words from some
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of my political colleagues, and
I wanted to read some of them
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for you.
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This is an email I got
from Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
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It says, Kal, if you don't
donate $5 by tonight,
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we're all going to die.
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Thank you, Nancy.
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That was so touching.
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Anyway, we've got a great
show for you tonight.
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Our guest tonight is the
foreign minister of Pakistan.
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But first, let's get
into the headlines!
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OK, let's kick things off
with a big announcement
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from President Joe Biden.
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You remember during the 2020
campaign, Biden said this.
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By the way, no more drilling
on federal lands, period.
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Period, period, period.
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Period, period, period!
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Comma.
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Because now, Biden has
approved a major oil
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drilling project
on federal land
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in Alaska, which
is disappointing.
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[booing]
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But hey, when you're that
age, that's the only kind
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of drilling you can do.
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No, come on.
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I'm kidding.
I'm kidding.
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I'm kidding.
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I'm kidding.
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This guy [bleeps].
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The crazy part about
this drilling project
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is that they'll be installing
a device called a thermo siphon
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that keeps the
permafrost solid enough
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for drilling while
it simultaneously
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melts due to global warming.
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Yes, ConocoPhillips
has an irony division.
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I mean, keeping the
permafrost alive
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so they can kill it slowly--
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that's like some Silence of
the Lambs serial-killer shit.
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Would you [bleep] the planet?
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I'd [bleep] the planet.
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I worked at the White House.
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[laughter]
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Now.
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[cheering, applause]
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Thank you.
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Now, listen, listen.
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The good news-- the good
news is that Biden is also
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flipflopping in a good way.
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Because back in the day,
Biden used to think marijuana
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was a gateway drug.
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But now, he's doing
stuff like this.
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President Biden
is offering help
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to people who have a
federal conviction for
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simple marijuana possession.
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They can now apply for
a presidential pardon.
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To qualify, applicants must
have been charged or convicted
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in federal court or
DC Superior Court
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before October 6 of last year.
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This is huge!
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And this is long overdue!
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Yeah!
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And look, heartfelt,
this is a moment
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of special congrats
to the advocates
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who have been pushing
for this for so long.
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They really did it.
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Now, they convinced
someone with five
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decades of experience in
Washington to change his mind.
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That's not easy.
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That would be like convincing
Mitch McConnell to let
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Democrats appoint judges
or convincing Chuck Schumer
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that his glasses
should be resting
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on the top of his nose.
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Top.
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In any case, if you're
wondering what the Oval Office
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looks like, now that Joe
Biden is a total stoner,
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it probably looks
something like this.
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It's the same.
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It's 2023.
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People who smoke weed don't
put tapestries on their
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wall anymore.
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I mean, yeah, the portrait
of George Washington
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does glow in black light
now, but that's it.
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Mostly the same.
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Anyway, let's move on
to some science news.
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Apparently, NASA is
tracking an asteroid
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that could slam into Earth on
Valentine's Day in 2046, which
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means that friend of yours
who always does those sad
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Valentine's Day posts like "I'm
going to die alone"
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actually is.
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Yeah.
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But if you're in a
relationship, then in a way,
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it would kind of be beautiful
to die on Valentine's Day,
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you know?
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Making sweet love with your
partner one last time--
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or if you're married, laying
in bed, too full from dinner
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to have sex, watching
Paul Blart one last time.
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Either way, super romantic.
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In other scientific
news, researchers
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did a study on flamingos.
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And it turns out that
flamingos form cliques,
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just like highschoolers.
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This is one of
those studies where
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I feel like we need to know
more about the scientists who
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did this study.
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Because maybe the flamingos
just didn't want to hang
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out with them specifically.
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Seriously, though,
this sounds terrible.
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It's tough enough
being a flamingo.
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Now, you also have to deal
with flamingo mean girls?
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They must be so cruel.
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Do you see how
short her neck is?
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Oh, my god.
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It's giving emu.
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And look at her legs.
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They're like a whole
centimeter thick!
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It's like paging Dr. Cankles!
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I heard she got a
beak enhancement,
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and the zookeeper paid for it.
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They're, like, totally
[bleep],, right?
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Oh, wait, wait.
She's coming over here.
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She's coming over here.
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Hi, Jenny!
Oh, my god.
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Do you know what?
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You look incredible!
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OK, bye!
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Ugh, I literally hate her.
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And finally-- thank you.
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[cheering, applause]
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Ridiculous.
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And finally, let's check in on
my home state of New Jersey.
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I'm sure-- I'm sure
they're not doing
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anything incredibly stupid.
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The city of Newark is
admitting it got scammed.
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Earlier this year,
Mayor Ras Baraka
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invited who he thought was
the Hindu nation of Kailasa
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to City Hall for a
cultural trade agreement
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and to become sister cities.
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But it turns out, Kailasa
isn't a real nation, but rather
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the invention of a scam artist
and fugitive who's from India,
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who's been on the
run since 2019.
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I have the immunity
of non-prosecutable
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and immunity and protection
as the head of the state.
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REPORTER: He was arrested
there years earlier,
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accused of sexual
assault charges
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by five women who say he abused
them at a religious retreat.
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Back in New Jersey, a few
days after this ceremony,
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the city says it realized it
had been deceived, calling it,
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quote, "a regrettable
incident."
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Jesus, Newark.
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How can an entire
city get catfished?
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Not a single person
realized they never
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heard of this country before?
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Not on a globe, not
at the Olympics,
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not as a stage in
"Street Fighter"?
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Look, if you can't find it
as a cuisine on Grubhub,
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it's not a real country.
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There must have been
so many red flags--
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the biggest one
being that anyone
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wanted to be sister
cities with Newark.
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Although, look,
to be fair, just
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because a country was
started by a sex criminal,
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doesn't mean it's fake.
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Just ask Thomas Jefferson.
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For more on this, please
give it up for Desi Lydic.
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[cheering, applause]
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Deci, what did-- what did
you make of this story?
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Oh.
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Well, Kal, as a white
person, I would like to know
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what you think of this story.
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Because for me, this
is a little dicey.
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I don't want to upset anybody
with any statements about
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whether Kailasa's
a real country.
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OK, well, it's not.
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It's not a real country.
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It's a cult.
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Right, right, right.
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But even so, I
honor its culture
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and its rich traditions.
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Because what is
culture if not culture?
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Desi, come on!
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Look how they're dressed!
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Does that look real to you?
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Uh, yes?
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No?
No.
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No!
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No!
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What-- those are just costumes!
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Whoa, Kal, their
culture is not a costume.
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No, that is
literally a costume.
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Desi, I understand what
you're trying to do.
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You want to be an ally.
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I definitely appreciate that.
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But Kailasa does not
deserve your allyship.
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Its leader is a
sexual predator.
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Oh, absolutely.
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Yes, and I condemn
all sexual predators.
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At the same time, it is
important to support diversity
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00:09:04,144 --> 00:09:06,146
among sexual predators.
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00:09:06,246 --> 00:09:07,147
No!
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00:09:07,247 --> 00:09:08,348
No, no no, it's not!
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00:09:08,448 --> 00:09:09,583
Desi, stop!
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00:09:09,683 --> 00:09:11,885
This is a cult, and they
scammed the city of Newark.
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00:09:12,019 --> 00:09:12,886
Of course they did.
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Yes, yes, they did.
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And they've been forced into
a cult, into cult behaviors,
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00:09:18,659 --> 00:09:20,594
by Western imperialism.
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And isn't that the real scam?
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00:09:22,529 --> 00:09:23,797
No!
No!
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00:09:23,897 --> 00:09:25,065
No!
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00:09:25,165 --> 00:09:27,067
Well, yes, yes, but no, wait,
now you're confusing me.
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Hold on.
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There is no Western
imperialism against Kailasa.
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There is no Kailasa.
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There are no Kailasians.
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We say Kailasians-x now.
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No, we don't!
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00:09:39,746 --> 00:09:40,848
Desi, look.
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00:09:40,948 --> 00:09:44,785
Look, I-- I am giving you
permission to criticize
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00:09:44,885 --> 00:09:45,953
this fake country.
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00:09:46,053 --> 00:09:49,056
On behalf of brown
people, it's OK.
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00:09:49,156 --> 00:09:51,692
Oh, I'm not worried
about brown people, Kal.
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00:09:51,792 --> 00:09:54,828
I'm worried about
other white people.
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If I disrespect
this fake nation,
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they'll make my real
Twitter a living hell.
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00:09:59,867 --> 00:10:01,401
Does Kailasa look
like a scammy cult?
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00:10:01,502 --> 00:10:02,402
Yes.
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00:10:02,503 --> 00:10:03,971
Do I trust white
people on Twitter
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to know the difference?
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00:10:05,072 --> 00:10:06,740
No.
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00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:10,210
Which is why I am proud
to announce that The Daily
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00:10:10,310 --> 00:10:14,147
Show, hosted by Kal
Penn, is now also
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00:10:14,248 --> 00:10:15,549
a sister city with Kailasa.
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00:10:15,649 --> 00:10:16,984
KAL PENN: What!
No, no!
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00:10:17,084 --> 00:10:17,985
Yes.
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00:10:18,085 --> 00:10:18,986
No, no!
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00:10:19,086 --> 00:10:21,889
No, don't put my name on that!
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00:10:21,989 --> 00:10:23,090
No!
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00:10:23,190 --> 00:10:24,124
You put me on this?
- Yes.
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00:10:24,224 --> 00:10:25,125
No!
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00:10:25,225 --> 00:10:28,595
Oh, my gosh, no!
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Oh, my gosh!
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00:10:29,696 --> 00:10:30,597
No, get out of here!
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00:10:30,697 --> 00:10:32,666
All right, Desi
Lydic, everyone.
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00:10:32,766 --> 00:10:33,967
Whew!
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00:10:34,067 --> 00:10:37,504
Next, I'll be taking you on
a tour of my favorite sport.
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00:10:37,604 --> 00:10:39,506
We'll be right back.
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00:10:46,513 --> 00:10:52,953
[applause]
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00:10:54,621 --> 00:10:55,589
Thank you.
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00:10:55,622 --> 00:10:57,257
Welcome back to the Daily Show.
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Look, a lot of people
would be surprised to know
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that one of my favorite
sports is NASCAR.
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00:11:02,429 --> 00:11:06,133
Now, I know I don't look like
your stereotypical NASCAR fan.
262
00:11:06,166 --> 00:11:08,635
But I also don't look like
your stereotypical Abercrombie
263
00:11:08,669 --> 00:11:11,471
and Fitch homosexual,
yet here we are.
264
00:11:11,505 --> 00:11:13,206
So what do I love about NASCAR?
265
00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:14,207
Take a look.
266
00:11:14,241 --> 00:11:15,275
Yeah, I know you're
looking at me,
267
00:11:15,309 --> 00:11:16,410
and you're like,
seriously, Kal?
268
00:11:16,443 --> 00:11:18,445
You've been a NASCAR
fan for 12 years?
269
00:11:18,478 --> 00:11:20,380
Yes, my fellow blue state libs.
270
00:11:20,414 --> 00:11:21,815
Grab a beer and come with me.
271
00:11:21,848 --> 00:11:23,283
NASCAR has it all.
272
00:11:23,317 --> 00:11:26,053
Day drinking, grilling,
whoever this guy is,
273
00:11:26,086 --> 00:11:27,454
and whoever this guy is.
274
00:11:27,487 --> 00:11:28,522
Wait, is that Kid Rock?
275
00:11:28,555 --> 00:11:30,924
This is so cool.
276
00:11:30,958 --> 00:11:33,293
And I could yell
whatever the I want
277
00:11:33,327 --> 00:11:35,696
because no one can hear me.
278
00:11:35,729 --> 00:11:37,764
You get here on
this track and you
279
00:11:37,798 --> 00:11:41,335
feel the rumble inside you when
those cars are going around.
280
00:11:41,368 --> 00:11:43,604
I'm getting chills just
thinking about it right now.
281
00:11:43,637 --> 00:11:45,639
I felt the rumble in my dick.
282
00:11:45,672 --> 00:11:46,974
Yeah, exactly.
283
00:11:47,007 --> 00:11:48,041
I wasn't mad about it.
284
00:11:48,075 --> 00:11:49,243
I'm not mad about it either.
285
00:11:49,276 --> 00:11:50,244
Yes.
286
00:11:50,277 --> 00:11:51,378
OK, here's the deal.
287
00:11:51,411 --> 00:11:54,248
NASCAR is different from
what you probably think.
288
00:11:54,281 --> 00:11:55,616
I feel like people
think it's just
289
00:11:55,649 --> 00:11:56,984
really like a redneck thing.
290
00:11:57,017 --> 00:11:59,820
And I mean, it kind of is, but
it's for everyone, you know?
291
00:11:59,853 --> 00:12:02,122
I'm like, I've
watched NASCAR since I
292
00:12:02,155 --> 00:12:05,325
was like 12, or before
then, because of my parents
293
00:12:05,359 --> 00:12:06,526
going to NASCAR races.
294
00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:07,728
Black people love racing.
295
00:12:07,761 --> 00:12:10,497
People may not realize
how much African-Americans
296
00:12:10,530 --> 00:12:13,901
love not just NASCAR,
any form of racing.
297
00:12:13,934 --> 00:12:16,503
Bubba Wallace is one of the
biggest stars in the sport.
298
00:12:16,536 --> 00:12:18,138
And he happens to agree.
299
00:12:18,171 --> 00:12:20,841
I think from
outside looking in,
300
00:12:20,874 --> 00:12:23,877
especially minorities feel
the stigma has been there
301
00:12:23,911 --> 00:12:25,312
that they're not welcome.
302
00:12:25,345 --> 00:12:28,181
And I've always been like,
that's not really true.
303
00:12:28,215 --> 00:12:32,686
I've been in NASCAR, my
career has been 20 years.
304
00:12:32,719 --> 00:12:33,720
Yeah, 20 years is about right.
305
00:12:33,754 --> 00:12:34,721
Actually, 29.
306
00:12:34,755 --> 00:12:35,889
About 29, OK, wow.
307
00:12:35,923 --> 00:12:37,057
I can tell you
right now, there
308
00:12:37,090 --> 00:12:38,725
is no New Jersey
parent who would
309
00:12:38,759 --> 00:12:41,061
let their kid drive at 9.
310
00:12:41,094 --> 00:12:42,729
So I always get the question,
what's it like being
311
00:12:42,763 --> 00:12:43,764
an Indian-American actor.
312
00:12:43,797 --> 00:12:45,332
I would imagine
it also drives you
313
00:12:45,365 --> 00:12:46,900
insane to get the
question, oh, what's
314
00:12:46,934 --> 00:12:48,068
it like being a black driver?
315
00:12:48,101 --> 00:12:52,005
So what's it like
being a black driver?
316
00:12:52,039 --> 00:12:54,775
So clickbait
and news outlets,
317
00:12:54,808 --> 00:12:56,410
they have to get
their viewership up.
318
00:12:56,443 --> 00:12:58,845
And the way they do
that is black driver.
319
00:12:58,879 --> 00:13:00,714
I don't walk around saying,
I'm the black driver.
320
00:13:00,747 --> 00:13:01,982
So yeah.
321
00:13:02,015 --> 00:13:04,685
You embrace it and you go
out and enjoy what you do.
322
00:13:04,718 --> 00:13:06,587
After I got my
media clickbait,
323
00:13:06,620 --> 00:13:09,223
we moved on to an issue
that everyday Americans
324
00:13:09,256 --> 00:13:10,724
actually care about.
325
00:13:10,757 --> 00:13:12,826
All right, a lot of people
really want to know this.
326
00:13:12,859 --> 00:13:14,361
How do you pee at 400 miles.
327
00:13:14,394 --> 00:13:16,396
I can't go 45 minutes
without having--
328
00:13:16,430 --> 00:13:17,598
Yes.
329
00:13:17,631 --> 00:13:19,333
So have you ever been in
a high-adrenaline moment?
330
00:13:19,366 --> 00:13:21,535
Well, I once rode
a cheetah in a movie.
331
00:13:21,568 --> 00:13:23,237
Did you have to pee
during that moment?
332
00:13:23,270 --> 00:13:24,338
- No.
- Exactly.
333
00:13:24,371 --> 00:13:26,006
So you're really in
the zone then for that.
334
00:13:26,039 --> 00:13:27,207
That's awesome.
- Yeah.
335
00:13:27,241 --> 00:13:29,176
And they always say if
you do pee in the car,
336
00:13:29,209 --> 00:13:31,044
then you got to be there
Monday morning to clean it out.
337
00:13:31,078 --> 00:13:32,346
- Oh.
- Do you want clean it out?
338
00:13:32,379 --> 00:13:33,847
You don't have
somebody for that?
339
00:13:33,881 --> 00:13:35,515
They're not going to do it.
340
00:13:35,549 --> 00:13:37,284
Ears.
341
00:13:37,317 --> 00:13:38,585
Here's another stereotype.
342
00:13:38,619 --> 00:13:41,488
Drivers aren't real
athletes, they just lazily
343
00:13:41,521 --> 00:13:43,924
sit there making left turns.
344
00:13:43,957 --> 00:13:45,759
The athleticism
side of it, to me,
345
00:13:45,792 --> 00:13:48,729
our heart rates
peak at about 170.
346
00:13:48,762 --> 00:13:51,598
And then during the race,
you're around the 140 area.
347
00:13:51,632 --> 00:13:54,601
That's a high heart rate for a
sustained long period of time.
348
00:13:54,635 --> 00:13:56,003
And hydration is huge.
349
00:13:56,036 --> 00:13:58,438
I can lose up to about 7 pounds
in the race car on a hot day.
350
00:13:58,472 --> 00:13:59,439
In one race?
351
00:13:59,473 --> 00:14:00,407
Yes, sir.
352
00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:01,808
Oh, can I drive this race?
353
00:14:01,842 --> 00:14:03,310
I would love to look a little--
354
00:14:03,343 --> 00:14:04,544
- You got good physique, man.
- Thank you.
355
00:14:04,578 --> 00:14:05,545
Thank you.
Thank you.
356
00:14:05,579 --> 00:14:06,747
I appreciate that.
357
00:14:06,780 --> 00:14:08,749
And the drivers aren't the
only jocks on the track.
358
00:14:08,782 --> 00:14:11,919
Meet Delondo Andino, a
former college athlete
359
00:14:11,952 --> 00:14:13,854
who trained as a tire
changer after being
360
00:14:13,887 --> 00:14:16,490
recruited through NASCAR's
diversity initiative.
361
00:14:16,523 --> 00:14:17,958
Everybody knows how to
change a tire-- well,
362
00:14:17,991 --> 00:14:19,092
I don't know how
to change a tire.
363
00:14:19,126 --> 00:14:20,894
But what's the big deal
about changing tires?
364
00:14:20,928 --> 00:14:22,496
It's just about how
fast you can do it.
365
00:14:22,529 --> 00:14:26,199
One tire can take like
maybe two or three seconds.
366
00:14:26,233 --> 00:14:28,702
We did reps after reps
after reps every time,
367
00:14:28,735 --> 00:14:31,872
because I think 2/10
of a second cost a lot
368
00:14:31,905 --> 00:14:35,409
of money for a team
if you make a mistake.
369
00:14:35,442 --> 00:14:38,512
As someone who was recently
told he had a good physique,
370
00:14:38,545 --> 00:14:41,248
I knew that joining the
pit crew would be easy.
371
00:14:41,281 --> 00:14:43,350
So like, the jacked
man's jacking the car up.
372
00:14:43,383 --> 00:14:45,219
I'm like, jack that shit it up.
He jacks it up.
373
00:14:45,252 --> 00:14:46,620
The guy's giving him some gas.
374
00:14:46,653 --> 00:14:48,255
I grabbed the other tire,
because I got to take it out.
375
00:14:48,288 --> 00:14:50,357
And I bring it back like this,
and I kick it over there.
376
00:14:50,390 --> 00:14:51,491
And then everyone's
like, you're
377
00:14:51,525 --> 00:14:52,793
almost going to [bleep].
378
00:14:52,826 --> 00:14:54,995
So I grab it like that, and
I bring it back over here.
379
00:14:55,028 --> 00:14:56,430
And I'm like, OK, great job.
380
00:14:56,463 --> 00:14:58,198
And the driver takes
off, so he wins the race,
381
00:14:58,232 --> 00:14:59,900
and we win a lot of money.
382
00:14:59,933 --> 00:15:01,168
Yeah, in theory.
383
00:15:01,201 --> 00:15:03,637
I think we missed
a couple of steps.
384
00:15:03,670 --> 00:15:05,339
Yeah, and that's a penalty.
385
00:15:05,372 --> 00:15:07,274
After crushing it
with the pit crew,
386
00:15:07,307 --> 00:15:10,210
I wanted to see if there
were any indoor jobs
387
00:15:10,244 --> 00:15:11,411
with air conditioning.
388
00:15:11,445 --> 00:15:13,914
There's just so much
more data and science that
389
00:15:13,947 --> 00:15:15,415
goes into it than
I think anybody
390
00:15:15,449 --> 00:15:16,950
really realizes when
they see cars going
391
00:15:16,984 --> 00:15:17,985
around in circles, right?
392
00:15:18,018 --> 00:15:19,953
So data comes from
the cars, and then
393
00:15:19,987 --> 00:15:23,657
the car has its speed, it's
got its RPM and the gear
394
00:15:23,690 --> 00:15:24,658
that it's in.
395
00:15:24,691 --> 00:15:25,959
That's like, is the car loose?
396
00:15:25,993 --> 00:15:27,628
Like, wants to spin
out, or is it tight?
397
00:15:27,661 --> 00:15:29,796
We look at what the driver
is doing with the wheel
398
00:15:29,830 --> 00:15:31,331
and then we try
and tell him, hey,
399
00:15:31,365 --> 00:15:32,699
you need to turn
the wheel less.
400
00:15:32,733 --> 00:15:34,868
Or you need to be
on the gas more.
401
00:15:34,902 --> 00:15:37,471
This sounds like cheating.
402
00:15:37,504 --> 00:15:38,772
Tom Brady fans would love this.
403
00:15:38,805 --> 00:15:40,173
Absolutely.
404
00:15:40,207 --> 00:15:43,410
As a number crunching genius,
JR represents the new NASCAR,
405
00:15:43,443 --> 00:15:46,446
and has had a front row seat
to the sport's evolution.
406
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:48,682
The sport's way different
than it has been in the past.
407
00:15:48,715 --> 00:15:50,250
My husband and I talk
about it all the time.
408
00:15:50,284 --> 00:15:52,653
Even myself working for
Bubba, I think a lot of people
409
00:15:52,686 --> 00:15:54,354
have always thought that
this sport was kind of out
410
00:15:54,388 --> 00:15:57,558
of reach, not only because they
couldn't get into the sport,
411
00:15:57,591 --> 00:15:59,993
but also because they wouldn't
be accepted by the sport.
412
00:16:00,027 --> 00:16:02,329
And I think that just being
out there and being vocal
413
00:16:02,362 --> 00:16:03,597
is super important.
414
00:16:03,630 --> 00:16:06,900
And I never thought 12-year-old
me would be doing it.
415
00:16:06,934 --> 00:16:08,702
Well, this was
12-year-old me,
416
00:16:08,735 --> 00:16:10,771
and he would have
been terrified
417
00:16:10,804 --> 00:16:11,939
by what I'm about to do.
418
00:16:11,972 --> 00:16:14,341
Where do I connect the
Bluetooth for the podcast?
419
00:16:14,374 --> 00:16:15,976
Oh, I wish.
420
00:16:16,009 --> 00:16:18,645
These things are meant for it
to go fast, so anything extra,
421
00:16:18,679 --> 00:16:19,713
we just pull out of the car.
422
00:16:19,746 --> 00:16:20,747
OK.
423
00:16:20,781 --> 00:16:22,049
I can't drive stick,
is that a problem?
424
00:16:22,082 --> 00:16:23,550
- No, you're good.
- OK.
425
00:16:23,584 --> 00:16:25,018
We basically just
put you in fourth gear
426
00:16:25,052 --> 00:16:26,220
and just push you off, man.
427
00:16:26,253 --> 00:16:29,122
Do only the snowflake
drivers get the push
428
00:16:29,156 --> 00:16:30,724
since we can't drive stick?
429
00:16:30,757 --> 00:16:31,725
Pretty much.
430
00:16:31,758 --> 00:16:33,360
Here we go.
431
00:16:33,393 --> 00:16:34,795
This is real inclusion.
432
00:16:34,828 --> 00:16:37,798
NASCAR making space
for athletes like me
433
00:16:37,831 --> 00:16:39,333
who can't drive stick.
434
00:16:39,366 --> 00:16:40,367
Off the clutch, give it gas.
435
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:41,435
Off the clutch, give it gas.
436
00:16:41,468 --> 00:16:43,170
Off the clutch, give
it gas, give it gas.
437
00:16:43,203 --> 00:16:45,138
That left pedal, push it in.
438
00:16:45,172 --> 00:16:48,308
Grab that stick and put it
all the way down to the right.
439
00:16:48,342 --> 00:16:49,843
What stick?
440
00:16:49,876 --> 00:16:50,911
The shifter.
441
00:16:50,944 --> 00:16:52,412
It's that big stick
in the middle right
442
00:16:52,446 --> 00:16:53,814
there of that car.
443
00:16:53,847 --> 00:16:54,948
OK.
444
00:16:54,982 --> 00:16:56,750
So you're saying pull
it-- push it forward?
445
00:16:56,783 --> 00:16:57,751
There you go.
446
00:16:57,784 --> 00:16:59,186
You're doing good out there.
447
00:16:59,219 --> 00:17:00,187
All good.
448
00:17:00,220 --> 00:17:01,421
This is awesome.
449
00:17:01,455 --> 00:17:04,691
Oh, I can feel my dick.
450
00:17:04,725 --> 00:17:05,993
Little scared
at first, right?
451
00:17:06,026 --> 00:17:07,394
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
452
00:17:07,427 --> 00:17:09,296
But then I was
like, getting into it.
453
00:17:09,329 --> 00:17:11,932
And then after I peed my
pants, it was such a relief.
454
00:17:11,965 --> 00:17:14,568
That was awesome.
455
00:17:14,601 --> 00:17:16,937
OK, that was fun
and I lost 2 pounds.
456
00:17:16,970 --> 00:17:20,474
But there is a more social
way to enjoy racing.
457
00:17:20,507 --> 00:17:21,675
Hey, guys.
458
00:17:21,708 --> 00:17:23,310
Can I come up?
459
00:17:23,343 --> 00:17:25,445
Yes, thank you.
460
00:17:25,479 --> 00:17:27,414
This is the infield
where families
461
00:17:27,447 --> 00:17:29,683
camp out for the weekend to
watch the races up close.
462
00:17:29,716 --> 00:17:30,751
- Are you thirsty?
- Sure.
463
00:17:30,784 --> 00:17:32,085
There you are.
Cheers.
464
00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:33,120
Thank you.
Cheers.
465
00:17:33,153 --> 00:17:34,187
Thank you guys.
466
00:17:34,221 --> 00:17:35,722
How long have you
been coming here?
467
00:17:35,756 --> 00:17:36,957
For 23 years.
468
00:17:36,990 --> 00:17:38,325
We're all family.
469
00:17:38,358 --> 00:17:40,727
You definitely
have the best view.
470
00:17:40,761 --> 00:17:43,530
And that's really what
NASCAR is all about.
471
00:17:43,564 --> 00:17:46,900
Family, speed, and crushing
beers on top of an RV
472
00:17:46,934 --> 00:17:48,135
with a group of new friends.
473
00:17:48,168 --> 00:17:49,136
Cheers.
474
00:17:49,169 --> 00:17:52,205
[music playing]
475
00:17:52,239 --> 00:17:53,574
All right, stay tuned.
476
00:17:53,607 --> 00:17:56,343
Because when we come back, the
foreign minister of Pakistan
477
00:17:56,376 --> 00:17:58,445
will be joining me,
so don't go away.
478
00:17:58,478 --> 00:17:58,545
[applause]
479
00:18:09,857 --> 00:18:12,460
[cheering, applause]
480
00:18:15,796 --> 00:18:19,033
Welcome back to
The Daily Show.
481
00:18:19,133 --> 00:18:20,634
My guest tonight is the
foreign minister of Pakistan.
482
00:18:20,735 --> 00:18:22,770
Please welcome Bilawal
Bhutto Zardari.
483
00:18:22,870 --> 00:18:29,877
[cheering, applause]
484
00:18:36,317 --> 00:18:37,985
Welcome.
- Thank you.
485
00:18:38,085 --> 00:18:39,386
Thank you for having me.
- Of course.
486
00:18:39,487 --> 00:18:40,387
Thanks for being here.
487
00:18:40,488 --> 00:18:42,857
For folks who don't
know, your mom
488
00:18:42,957 --> 00:18:46,026
was former Prime
Minister Benazir Bhutto,
489
00:18:46,127 --> 00:18:48,929
who was assassinated in 2007.
490
00:18:49,029 --> 00:18:51,265
But now, you are the
youngest foreign minister
491
00:18:51,365 --> 00:18:52,266
in Pakistan's history.
492
00:18:52,366 --> 00:18:53,701
You're 34.
493
00:18:53,801 --> 00:18:54,835
And you're a very
young country.
494
00:18:54,935 --> 00:18:57,037
I think the median age
in Pakistan is only 20,
495
00:18:57,138 --> 00:18:58,038
something like that, roughly.
496
00:18:58,139 --> 00:18:59,240
Yeah.
497
00:18:59,340 --> 00:19:01,509
60% of our population are
beneath the age of 35.
498
00:19:01,609 --> 00:19:02,877
KAL PENN: Wow.
499
00:19:02,977 --> 00:19:06,247
So how does your age create
an opportunity for leadership
500
00:19:06,347 --> 00:19:07,348
in a country that's so young?
501
00:19:07,448 --> 00:19:08,849
Oh, that's an
interesting question.
502
00:19:08,949 --> 00:19:10,618
I think that most of--
503
00:19:10,718 --> 00:19:12,086
if you look at the
politics in Pakistan
504
00:19:12,186 --> 00:19:14,355
or the political
landscape, it's
505
00:19:14,455 --> 00:19:17,758
one or two generations above
me that are the main players.
506
00:19:17,858 --> 00:19:20,728
So I'm sure that given
that I am so young,
507
00:19:20,828 --> 00:19:24,298
I bring a unique perspective.
508
00:19:24,365 --> 00:19:25,399
And I think that's
so important.
509
00:19:25,499 --> 00:19:27,401
Because everybody who
is in power right now
510
00:19:27,501 --> 00:19:29,737
or in positions of influence
and making decisions
511
00:19:29,837 --> 00:19:31,072
for our country--
512
00:19:31,172 --> 00:19:33,207
they'll live for 10, 20 years.
513
00:19:33,307 --> 00:19:36,644
We have to think about
the long picture, and now,
514
00:19:36,744 --> 00:19:41,115
climate change, and poverty,
and all the income inequality
515
00:19:41,215 --> 00:19:44,318
and discrimination that people
are facing across the country.
516
00:19:44,418 --> 00:19:46,320
How are we going to address
those issues in the long term?
517
00:19:46,387 --> 00:19:49,657
Do you feel like there's
ever a generational divide
518
00:19:49,757 --> 00:19:50,691
between the people who you--
519
00:19:50,791 --> 00:19:51,726
I think, absolutely.
520
00:19:51,826 --> 00:19:54,428
I think it's been an
experience working
521
00:19:54,528 --> 00:19:57,431
with people from a whole
host of different age groups.
522
00:19:57,531 --> 00:20:00,835
And absolutely,
I felt, sort of,
523
00:20:00,935 --> 00:20:02,503
throughout my
political career, just
524
00:20:02,603 --> 00:20:05,773
as a result of my age,
perhaps the same ideas,
525
00:20:05,873 --> 00:20:10,611
same suggestions, given
from other people of a more
526
00:20:10,711 --> 00:20:12,513
senior age, would be
taken more seriously,
527
00:20:12,613 --> 00:20:15,750
as opposed to coming from
a younger perspective.
528
00:20:15,850 --> 00:20:17,451
But at the same
time, I think I'd
529
00:20:17,551 --> 00:20:19,286
like to say I've proven
over the course of time,
530
00:20:19,386 --> 00:20:23,023
whether I was in opposition
or as foreign minister,
531
00:20:23,124 --> 00:20:25,292
that age is just a
number, and we can
532
00:20:25,393 --> 00:20:26,660
still get quite a lot done.
533
00:20:26,761 --> 00:20:29,964
So it's timely having
you here tonight.
534
00:20:30,064 --> 00:20:33,067
Right now, you know, Pakistan
is facing some unrest
535
00:20:33,167 --> 00:20:35,369
over the imminent
arrest of former Prime
536
00:20:35,469 --> 00:20:37,171
Minister Imran Khan.
537
00:20:37,304 --> 00:20:40,007
Mr. Khan says that your
government wants him arrested,
538
00:20:40,107 --> 00:20:42,476
so that he's disqualified
from upcoming elections.
539
00:20:42,576 --> 00:20:43,744
Is that true?
540
00:20:43,844 --> 00:20:48,949
So unfortunately, Pakistan
is facing a perfect storm.
541
00:20:49,049 --> 00:20:53,154
Not only do we have
heightened partisanship
542
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,790
and political
polarization, to the extent
543
00:20:55,890 --> 00:20:59,593
that political parties
or political stakeholders
544
00:20:59,693 --> 00:21:01,962
aren't even in a
position to sit in a room
545
00:21:02,063 --> 00:21:04,331
and discuss issues
amongst themselves,
546
00:21:04,398 --> 00:21:07,568
we're also facing
an economic crisis.
547
00:21:07,668 --> 00:21:10,738
We are facing a security
threat and security
548
00:21:10,838 --> 00:21:14,942
crisis in the fallout from the
fall of the Afghan government
549
00:21:15,042 --> 00:21:17,344
and the increasing the
terrorist attacks that
550
00:21:17,445 --> 00:21:18,846
are taking place
with increasing
551
00:21:18,946 --> 00:21:20,514
frequency in Pakistan.
552
00:21:20,614 --> 00:21:23,284
We just faced the biggest
climate catastrophe
553
00:21:23,317 --> 00:21:26,353
of our history, where 1/3 of
the landmass of our country
554
00:21:26,454 --> 00:21:27,488
was under water.
555
00:21:27,588 --> 00:21:29,657
That's something that my
generation, generations
556
00:21:29,757 --> 00:21:32,893
to come, are going to be paying
the price for the decisions
557
00:21:32,993 --> 00:21:34,462
that others have taken.
558
00:21:34,562 --> 00:21:38,365
And unfortunately, in all
this chaos and in all these--
559
00:21:38,466 --> 00:21:41,135
while we're facing these
simultaneous crises,
560
00:21:41,302 --> 00:21:44,004
we have to question of
Mr. Khan, who believes
561
00:21:44,105 --> 00:21:46,307
that the Pakistani Constitution
doesn't apply to him,
562
00:21:46,373 --> 00:21:48,142
the Pakistani law
doesn't apply to him,
563
00:21:48,309 --> 00:21:50,444
that he can get up and leave.
564
00:21:50,544 --> 00:21:53,848
He's resigned from parliament
and run away from the system.
565
00:21:53,948 --> 00:21:56,317
In this particular instance,
it's not a question of me
566
00:21:56,417 --> 00:21:58,185
wanting to arrest Mr. Khan.
567
00:21:58,319 --> 00:22:04,158
I come from a family who faced
genuine arrest in the face
568
00:22:04,325 --> 00:22:05,793
of military dictatorships.
569
00:22:05,893 --> 00:22:09,897
My mom-- my mother-- when
she was younger than me,
570
00:22:09,997 --> 00:22:13,467
she battled an Islamist
dictator at the time,
571
00:22:13,567 --> 00:22:14,668
who threw her in prison.
572
00:22:14,769 --> 00:22:17,705
My father spent 11 and
1/2 years in prison
573
00:22:17,805 --> 00:22:19,407
and was tortured
without a conviction.
574
00:22:19,507 --> 00:22:21,509
I would never want
any politician
575
00:22:21,609 --> 00:22:24,979
in my country or
any country to go
576
00:22:25,079 --> 00:22:26,914
to jail for political reasons.
577
00:22:27,014 --> 00:22:29,517
In Mr Khan's case,
he's under the threat
578
00:22:29,617 --> 00:22:31,719
of arrest because of his ego.
579
00:22:31,819 --> 00:22:34,955
He says-- the courts are saying
that he has to come to court
580
00:22:35,055 --> 00:22:37,391
and fight his cases, whatever
cases are against him.
581
00:22:37,491 --> 00:22:39,860
And he says, I'm Imran
Khan, and I'm too important,
582
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:41,328
and I'm not going
to turn up to court.
583
00:22:41,429 --> 00:22:43,397
And what we've seen over
the last couple of weeks
584
00:22:43,497 --> 00:22:45,733
has been a complete mockery
of the judicial system
585
00:22:45,833 --> 00:22:49,336
in Pakistan, of rule of law, of
the Constitution in Pakistan,
586
00:22:49,437 --> 00:22:51,939
where, had he gone to court,
there's probably no reason he
587
00:22:52,039 --> 00:22:53,374
had to fear imminent arrest.
588
00:22:53,474 --> 00:22:57,078
Because he's violated court
orders time and time again,
589
00:22:57,178 --> 00:22:59,547
finally, the courts have
instructed the police
590
00:22:59,647 --> 00:23:02,183
to produce him before court.
591
00:23:02,316 --> 00:23:04,618
But he's called on his
citizens, on his workers,
592
00:23:04,718 --> 00:23:07,621
and his supporters to come
and confront the police.
593
00:23:07,721 --> 00:23:10,491
The police went to him with
no intention of violence.
594
00:23:10,591 --> 00:23:13,127
And as you may be aware,
Pakistan's history
595
00:23:13,260 --> 00:23:16,097
is full of politicians who have
gone to prison, right, wrong,
596
00:23:16,263 --> 00:23:17,164
or otherwise.
597
00:23:17,264 --> 00:23:20,334
In this case, Mr. Khan
is refusing to even
598
00:23:20,434 --> 00:23:22,403
present himself before court.
599
00:23:22,503 --> 00:23:24,905
He's refusing to
defend himself.
600
00:23:25,005 --> 00:23:27,608
I'm sure if he's innocent,
he'd be able to clear his name
601
00:23:27,708 --> 00:23:29,076
through the judicial system.
602
00:23:29,176 --> 00:23:30,811
So we're caught in a
situation where there's
603
00:23:30,911 --> 00:23:36,016
this political chaos
playing out on the streets
604
00:23:36,117 --> 00:23:38,719
and distracting from
the real issues that are
605
00:23:38,819 --> 00:23:40,588
affecting everyday Pakistanis.
606
00:23:40,688 --> 00:23:42,723
KAL PENN: What does that say
about the state of democracy
607
00:23:42,823 --> 00:23:43,724
in Pakistan?
608
00:23:43,824 --> 00:23:44,892
Is it fragile right now?
609
00:23:44,992 --> 00:23:45,993
Absolutely.
610
00:23:46,093 --> 00:23:48,028
Pakistan has been, for
most of our history,
611
00:23:48,129 --> 00:23:50,464
under direct military
dictatorship.
612
00:23:50,564 --> 00:23:52,733
After the assassination
of my mother,
613
00:23:52,833 --> 00:23:56,404
there was a brief period
of democratic transition.
614
00:23:56,504 --> 00:23:58,406
Political parties
came together.
615
00:23:58,506 --> 00:24:02,009
They reached a consensus that
we removed all the dictators
616
00:24:02,109 --> 00:24:05,613
laws from the Constitution,
devolved power to parliament,
617
00:24:05,713 --> 00:24:07,748
had peaceful transfer of
power for the first time
618
00:24:07,848 --> 00:24:09,817
in our history, from one
government to another.
619
00:24:09,917 --> 00:24:12,820
And those people
or those forces
620
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,890
that benefit from
undemocratic rule in Pakistan
621
00:24:15,990 --> 00:24:17,258
didn't like that.
622
00:24:17,291 --> 00:24:22,363
So they supported Mr. Khan
and brought him into power.
623
00:24:22,463 --> 00:24:24,899
And that's now
blown up not only
624
00:24:24,999 --> 00:24:28,536
in those individuals' face,
but has had severe consequences
625
00:24:28,636 --> 00:24:29,637
for our country.
626
00:24:29,737 --> 00:24:31,272
KAL PENN: You talked
about your own family,
627
00:24:31,338 --> 00:24:32,706
and so I just wanted
to expand on that.
628
00:24:32,807 --> 00:24:34,742
Because I think, for an
American audience especially,
629
00:24:34,842 --> 00:24:37,378
you see a lot of politicians--
not just in Pakistan,
630
00:24:37,478 --> 00:24:39,413
but obviously, many
countries, regardless
631
00:24:39,513 --> 00:24:41,849
of political party-- who
are accused of corruption,
632
00:24:41,949 --> 00:24:44,285
accused of other charges,
in and out of prison,
633
00:24:44,351 --> 00:24:46,387
or violence.
634
00:24:46,487 --> 00:24:49,557
How do you know whether
someone has committed
635
00:24:49,657 --> 00:24:52,493
a credible violation of
law or whether something
636
00:24:52,593 --> 00:24:53,894
is politically motivated?
637
00:24:53,994 --> 00:24:56,630
What's the litmus there, and
how do your voters-- not just
638
00:24:56,731 --> 00:24:58,599
from your party, but
overall in Pakistan--
639
00:24:58,699 --> 00:24:59,800
how do they respond
to that, and how
640
00:24:59,900 --> 00:25:00,801
do you take that temperature?
641
00:25:00,901 --> 00:25:02,002
So that is
something that I've
642
00:25:02,103 --> 00:25:03,471
lived with my entire life.
643
00:25:03,571 --> 00:25:07,174
Because my mother was
prime minister of Pakistan
644
00:25:07,308 --> 00:25:09,910
for a few years, but she
spent most of her life
645
00:25:10,010 --> 00:25:12,413
in opposition, either
in country, in prison,
646
00:25:12,513 --> 00:25:15,282
or in exile, fighting
not one but two
647
00:25:15,382 --> 00:25:16,417
military dictatorships.
648
00:25:16,517 --> 00:25:19,820
She spent those 30
years of her life
649
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:21,956
fighting politically
motivated cases,
650
00:25:22,056 --> 00:25:24,558
where the perception
was built in the media
651
00:25:24,658 --> 00:25:27,495
and otherwise, this
corruption and a whole host
652
00:25:27,595 --> 00:25:28,562
of allegations.
653
00:25:28,662 --> 00:25:31,565
After she was
assassinated, her name
654
00:25:31,665 --> 00:25:34,668
has been cleared from
each and every single case
655
00:25:34,769 --> 00:25:36,871
that was lodged against
her in her lifetime.
656
00:25:36,971 --> 00:25:38,739
And I, as her son
and who's someone
657
00:25:38,839 --> 00:25:41,041
who lived through
that, really wish
658
00:25:41,142 --> 00:25:44,145
that it happened while she
was still here and amongst us.
659
00:25:44,278 --> 00:25:46,814
Unfortunately, that
was the tradition
660
00:25:46,914 --> 00:25:48,449
of Pakistani politics.
661
00:25:48,549 --> 00:25:50,851
After my mother's
assassination,
662
00:25:50,951 --> 00:25:53,320
the big political parties
in Pakistan came together,
663
00:25:53,421 --> 00:25:55,523
and they said, look, if
we're going to be fighting
664
00:25:55,623 --> 00:25:58,292
amongst ourselves all
the time and taking
665
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,195
our political differences
as personal differences,
666
00:26:01,295 --> 00:26:04,498
and whoever is in power--
they arrest the opposition,
667
00:26:04,598 --> 00:26:06,667
then we're never going to get
anything done as a country.
668
00:26:06,767 --> 00:26:09,470
And we saw a gap
of 10 years where
669
00:26:09,570 --> 00:26:11,338
we didn't go after
each other, where
670
00:26:11,439 --> 00:26:13,841
two different political
parties came into power.
671
00:26:13,941 --> 00:26:16,243
They served out their
term, were voted out
672
00:26:16,343 --> 00:26:19,046
from the people, and
the next political party
673
00:26:19,146 --> 00:26:20,448
came into place.
674
00:26:20,548 --> 00:26:23,117
Mr. Khan is the one
who, unfortunately,
675
00:26:23,250 --> 00:26:24,351
broke those presidencies.
676
00:26:24,452 --> 00:26:26,487
So you're talking
about, essentially,
677
00:26:26,587 --> 00:26:28,522
what sounds like a
fragile democracy
678
00:26:28,622 --> 00:26:31,859
and things that are malleable
and moving back and forth.
679
00:26:31,959 --> 00:26:34,829
To what extent does that
impact economics in Pakistan?
680
00:26:34,929 --> 00:26:40,701
I know that right now, the IMF
and you are sort of at odds.
681
00:26:40,801 --> 00:26:43,437
And I know they're
withholding some money
682
00:26:43,537 --> 00:26:45,973
until tax reforms are met.
683
00:26:46,073 --> 00:26:47,608
I believe that was--
correct me if I'm wrong.
684
00:26:47,708 --> 00:26:49,343
That was negotiated by
a previous government,
685
00:26:49,443 --> 00:26:50,544
but now, you're in power.
686
00:26:50,644 --> 00:26:51,545
Mr. Khan.
687
00:26:51,645 --> 00:26:53,114
KAL PENN: --your
party needs to follow
688
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,683
up on what was negotiated.
689
00:26:55,783 --> 00:26:57,051
So how does that
political instability
690
00:26:57,151 --> 00:26:58,119
then affect economics?
691
00:26:58,285 --> 00:27:01,055
So two things-- as
far as, how democratic
692
00:27:01,155 --> 00:27:02,556
are we right now, I would
say we're in a
693
00:27:02,656 --> 00:27:03,958
democratic transition.
694
00:27:04,058 --> 00:27:07,294
And I hope that this
goes well and we
695
00:27:07,361 --> 00:27:10,398
transition towards a
more democratic society.
696
00:27:10,498 --> 00:27:11,966
Because I believe that
Pakistan is facing
697
00:27:12,066 --> 00:27:14,068
a whole host of problems,
but no matter the problem,
698
00:27:14,235 --> 00:27:17,238
the answer is more democracy.
699
00:27:17,271 --> 00:27:19,874
But I might be wrong, and
it could go the other way.
700
00:27:19,974 --> 00:27:21,742
As far as our
economic situation
701
00:27:21,842 --> 00:27:24,578
is concerned, as I mentioned,
we're in the perfect storm.
702
00:27:24,678 --> 00:27:25,946
You're absolutely right.
703
00:27:26,046 --> 00:27:29,150
The deal with the IMF is made
by the previous government,
704
00:27:29,250 --> 00:27:31,118
and the previous
government violated
705
00:27:31,252 --> 00:27:32,520
that deal with the IMF.
706
00:27:32,620 --> 00:27:34,121
They put Pakistan
in an extremely
707
00:27:34,255 --> 00:27:36,657
precarious economic situation.
708
00:27:36,757 --> 00:27:38,492
We're also, like the
rest of the world,
709
00:27:38,592 --> 00:27:41,729
feeling the economic impacts
of the war in Ukraine,
710
00:27:41,829 --> 00:27:43,664
of the COVID pandemic.
711
00:27:43,764 --> 00:27:46,567
And at the same
time, as a result,
712
00:27:46,667 --> 00:27:48,803
the fall of Kabul a year ago--
713
00:27:48,903 --> 00:27:51,672
we've seen the return to
terrorism in our country,
714
00:27:51,772 --> 00:27:53,474
an increase in terrorist
activity-- that has
715
00:27:53,574 --> 00:27:56,143
its own impact on economics--
716
00:27:56,277 --> 00:28:00,448
and the climate
catastrophe-- the floods
717
00:28:00,548 --> 00:28:03,350
that took out 5 million
acres of standing crops.
718
00:28:03,451 --> 00:28:07,354
One in seven Pakistanis--
that's 33 million people--
719
00:28:07,455 --> 00:28:08,622
were affected.
720
00:28:08,722 --> 00:28:10,057
Many people are still affected.
721
00:28:10,157 --> 00:28:11,459
KAL PENN: I wanted to
ask you about that--
722
00:28:11,559 --> 00:28:13,227
All of these things
coming together-- sorry.
723
00:28:13,327 --> 00:28:16,497
All of these things
coming together
724
00:28:16,597 --> 00:28:19,400
put our economy under
incredible strain and stress.
725
00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:21,068
And you're absolutely right.
726
00:28:21,168 --> 00:28:23,938
Our negotiations are
still ongoing and have not
727
00:28:24,038 --> 00:28:27,074
been concluded with the IMF.
728
00:28:27,174 --> 00:28:29,877
And I completely-- I'm actually
left-of-center political party
729
00:28:29,977 --> 00:28:33,948
who, within our own politics,
calls for an increase in tax
730
00:28:34,048 --> 00:28:36,684
revenue, sort of,
addressing the income
731
00:28:36,784 --> 00:28:38,252
inequalities, et cetera.
732
00:28:38,352 --> 00:28:41,155
But at this point of time, I
think that when Pakistan is
733
00:28:41,255 --> 00:28:43,023
facing such a perfect storm--
734
00:28:43,124 --> 00:28:45,459
some problems of
our own creation,
735
00:28:45,559 --> 00:28:48,829
but some, like the flood and
others, that are of our own--
736
00:28:48,929 --> 00:28:51,866
that the conversation
with the IMF
737
00:28:51,966 --> 00:28:54,268
really should take that into
account, and I don't think it
738
00:28:54,368 --> 00:28:55,603
is at the moment.
739
00:28:55,703 --> 00:28:58,205
But in terms of how the tax
structure works in Pakistan,
740
00:28:58,305 --> 00:29:00,574
I don't want to get too in
the weeds on tax structure.
741
00:29:00,674 --> 00:29:02,042
I know that's not your job.
742
00:29:02,143 --> 00:29:03,310
But one of the
things that I was
743
00:29:03,411 --> 00:29:05,713
reminded of when I was
prepping for our conversation--
744
00:29:05,813 --> 00:29:07,047
I know that you're from--
745
00:29:07,148 --> 00:29:10,017
historically from a relatively
wealthy landowning family,
746
00:29:10,117 --> 00:29:11,819
and there are many in Pakistan.
747
00:29:11,919 --> 00:29:12,987
Do you know who
Bernie Sanders is?
748
00:29:13,087 --> 00:29:14,922
Yes, I do.
I know who Bernie is.
749
00:29:15,022 --> 00:29:16,557
So Bernie-- you
know, Bernie's a big
750
00:29:16,657 --> 00:29:19,326
fan of making sure the 1% pay
their fair share and all that.
751
00:29:19,427 --> 00:29:20,361
Big topic here.
752
00:29:20,461 --> 00:29:22,163
Is there a version
of that in Pakistan?
753
00:29:22,296 --> 00:29:25,166
Can the wealthiest families
do something to sort of
754
00:29:25,299 --> 00:29:26,400
help economically in a way--
755
00:29:26,500 --> 00:29:30,071
That's so interesting
that you ask that question.
756
00:29:30,171 --> 00:29:33,374
From the mainstream political
parties in Pakistan, with
757
00:29:33,474 --> 00:29:35,042
the Pakistan People's Party--
758
00:29:35,142 --> 00:29:37,778
and we are the left-of-center
political party.
759
00:29:37,878 --> 00:29:39,747
Today, we're a left-of-center
political party.
760
00:29:39,847 --> 00:29:41,582
When we started out,
we were actually
761
00:29:41,682 --> 00:29:43,984
a socialist political party.
762
00:29:44,085 --> 00:29:47,655
And my grandfather was
heading the party at the time,
763
00:29:47,755 --> 00:29:49,623
became the country's
prime minister,
764
00:29:49,724 --> 00:29:51,158
and that's exactly what he did.
765
00:29:51,325 --> 00:29:52,560
He rebelled against
his own class,
766
00:29:52,660 --> 00:29:56,197
because he was a
rich, wealthy landlord
767
00:29:56,330 --> 00:29:58,999
that owned masses of land.
768
00:29:59,100 --> 00:30:04,338
But he led land
reforms, which took away
769
00:30:04,438 --> 00:30:06,173
vast amounts of
lands for the wealthy
770
00:30:06,340 --> 00:30:09,910
and redistributed it
amongst the landless people
771
00:30:10,010 --> 00:30:11,278
of the area.
772
00:30:11,378 --> 00:30:14,849
He read industrial reforms,
where 22 families in Pakistan
773
00:30:14,949 --> 00:30:17,284
had, like, a death
grip on our economy,
774
00:30:17,384 --> 00:30:19,920
and they own all the
industry in our country.
775
00:30:20,020 --> 00:30:22,289
So then, he nationalized
the industry,
776
00:30:22,389 --> 00:30:24,592
so that it worked for the
many and not for the few,
777
00:30:24,692 --> 00:30:26,026
a la Bernie.
778
00:30:26,127 --> 00:30:29,196
At the moment, unfortunately,
where we are in Pakistan
779
00:30:29,296 --> 00:30:33,200
is very far away from the
vision that the founders
780
00:30:33,300 --> 00:30:36,837
of my party laid out or the
efforts that my mother did,
781
00:30:36,937 --> 00:30:39,940
as far as addressing the gap
between the rich and poor.
782
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:45,746
And what we have is a system
where the elites like myself
783
00:30:45,846 --> 00:30:49,116
can weather these
storms without much pain
784
00:30:49,216 --> 00:30:51,419
or without feeling
much difference.
785
00:30:51,519 --> 00:30:54,188
But whether it is our
deals with the IMF
786
00:30:54,321 --> 00:30:57,124
or our own internal
economic policy,
787
00:30:57,224 --> 00:31:00,661
there's an outsized burden
on the poorest of the poor.
788
00:31:00,761 --> 00:31:05,566
There's an outsized burden
on the bottom of the pyramid.
789
00:31:05,666 --> 00:31:07,501
And what we'd like to see--
790
00:31:07,601 --> 00:31:11,639
I believe the only way for us
to have a functioning economy
791
00:31:11,739 --> 00:31:15,543
that works for everyone would
be not only for everyone
792
00:31:15,643 --> 00:31:20,281
to pay their fair share, as
far as taxation is concerned,
793
00:31:20,314 --> 00:31:23,284
but we do need a fundamental
reform about how we talk
794
00:31:23,384 --> 00:31:26,187
about our economy and what
decisions we take domestically
795
00:31:26,287 --> 00:31:27,788
in order to achieve that.
796
00:31:27,888 --> 00:31:30,691
I know that last year, you
did a lot of work raising
797
00:31:30,791 --> 00:31:33,027
awareness on the fact
that 1/3 of your country
798
00:31:33,127 --> 00:31:36,097
was underwater from
those devastating floods.
799
00:31:36,197 --> 00:31:39,767
That's, obviously, faded from
international news since then.
800
00:31:39,867 --> 00:31:41,635
Can you give us an
update on the status
801
00:31:41,736 --> 00:31:42,903
of the people affected?
802
00:31:43,003 --> 00:31:44,438
BILAWAL BHUTTO ZARDARI:
Thank you so much for asking.
803
00:31:44,538 --> 00:31:47,208
We're a country that
has experienced floods
804
00:31:47,308 --> 00:31:50,044
and monsoons consistently.
805
00:31:50,144 --> 00:31:54,315
This was something
apocalyptic, out of--
806
00:31:54,381 --> 00:31:58,419
a la Noah's Ark flood's scale.
807
00:31:58,519 --> 00:32:00,888
I've never seen
anything like it.
808
00:32:00,988 --> 00:32:04,325
And we're still battling
with the consequences.
809
00:32:04,392 --> 00:32:06,327
I absolutely have been
raising awareness.
810
00:32:06,427 --> 00:32:08,896
I'm very grateful that the
international community stood
811
00:32:08,996 --> 00:32:11,265
with Pakistan, on not
one but two occasions--
812
00:32:11,332 --> 00:32:13,801
one at the COP,
where Pakistan was
813
00:32:13,901 --> 00:32:16,437
the chair of the developing
countries group of G77,
814
00:32:16,537 --> 00:32:18,706
and we helped push
for loss and damage
815
00:32:18,806 --> 00:32:21,475
to be included on COP's
agenda, which I think
816
00:32:21,575 --> 00:32:23,844
is a big achievement
as far as the climate
817
00:32:23,944 --> 00:32:25,479
movement is concerned
and the future
818
00:32:25,579 --> 00:32:26,881
of developing countries.
819
00:32:26,981 --> 00:32:30,818
And the second is when we held
a Climate Resilient Pakistan
820
00:32:30,918 --> 00:32:33,454
Conference in Geneva, where
the international community
821
00:32:33,554 --> 00:32:36,891
stood with us and pledged
some money for reconstruction.
822
00:32:36,991 --> 00:32:39,360
As far as attention is
concerned, of course,
823
00:32:39,460 --> 00:32:42,296
international media
attention span is very small,
824
00:32:42,329 --> 00:32:44,398
and that has moved on.
825
00:32:44,498 --> 00:32:46,400
But the sad thing is
that domestic attention
826
00:32:46,500 --> 00:32:47,401
has moved on.
827
00:32:47,501 --> 00:32:49,537
I come from the
province of Sindh,
828
00:32:49,637 --> 00:32:50,938
which is the most devastated.
829
00:32:51,038 --> 00:32:53,574
2/3 of our province
was underwater
830
00:32:53,674 --> 00:32:54,708
as a result of this flood.
831
00:32:54,809 --> 00:32:56,677
The political
conversation has moved on.
832
00:32:56,777 --> 00:32:58,879
We're talking about
whether Imran Khan's going
833
00:32:58,979 --> 00:33:00,915
to get arrested or
not, and we're not
834
00:33:01,015 --> 00:33:05,920
talking about the millions of
people who are, at the moment,
835
00:33:06,020 --> 00:33:07,388
in danger of--
836
00:33:07,488 --> 00:33:09,857
I don't like to throw
about words like famine,
837
00:33:09,957 --> 00:33:12,793
but there's a food
scarcity issue for them--
838
00:33:12,893 --> 00:33:14,762
the people that are
thrown into poverty.
839
00:33:14,862 --> 00:33:17,698
I mean, there's this
impression that it's
840
00:33:17,798 --> 00:33:19,767
the completely impoverished
people that had no hope
841
00:33:19,867 --> 00:33:21,035
and they're still poor.
842
00:33:21,135 --> 00:33:23,504
It's awful that anybody
get affected by floods,
843
00:33:23,604 --> 00:33:25,306
but I just want
to emphasize that
844
00:33:25,406 --> 00:33:29,710
of these people, 33 million
people that were affected,
845
00:33:29,810 --> 00:33:30,945
some of these people--
846
00:33:31,045 --> 00:33:32,847
I mean, they're
not living the most
847
00:33:32,947 --> 00:33:35,983
elitist lives or the
most well-off lives,
848
00:33:36,083 --> 00:33:37,818
but they were getting by.
849
00:33:37,918 --> 00:33:39,286
They had their little shop.
850
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,288
They had their
little bit of land
851
00:33:41,388 --> 00:33:43,424
that they were eking
a living out of.
852
00:33:43,524 --> 00:33:46,026
And they've been
thrown into poverty,
853
00:33:46,127 --> 00:33:49,630
and it's going to take us a
while to claw back from that.
854
00:33:49,730 --> 00:33:52,566
And until we do
so, unfortunately--
855
00:33:52,666 --> 00:33:54,135
I wish I could
stand here and say
856
00:33:54,301 --> 00:33:56,871
that my country was
paying the attention
857
00:33:56,971 --> 00:33:59,039
that it should to this issue.
858
00:33:59,140 --> 00:34:00,741
But unfortunately,
I'm afraid to admit
859
00:34:00,841 --> 00:34:03,210
we're being distracted.
860
00:34:03,310 --> 00:34:05,379
I want to ask you
about solutions also.
861
00:34:05,479 --> 00:34:08,416
You mentioned loss and damage.
862
00:34:08,516 --> 00:34:09,483
Is that what you said?
863
00:34:09,583 --> 00:34:10,918
Loss and damage of
crops, absolutely.
864
00:34:11,018 --> 00:34:12,052
Can you talk
about what that is?
865
00:34:12,153 --> 00:34:14,155
And then, also, what
are sort of the plans
866
00:34:14,255 --> 00:34:16,290
on addressing climate
longer-term for Pakistan?
867
00:34:16,390 --> 00:34:18,726
OK, so the two
arguments around the loss
868
00:34:18,826 --> 00:34:20,027
and damage debate of crops.
869
00:34:20,127 --> 00:34:23,597
The more basic, sort of,
more activist approach
870
00:34:23,697 --> 00:34:26,700
to that conversation
is that rich countries,
871
00:34:26,801 --> 00:34:29,036
industrialized countries,
have created this crisis,
872
00:34:29,136 --> 00:34:31,272
and there are a whole
host of countries--
873
00:34:31,338 --> 00:34:32,506
KAL PENN: The climate crisis.
874
00:34:32,606 --> 00:34:33,641
The climate crisis.
875
00:34:33,741 --> 00:34:36,377
And it is a result of
their industrialization.
876
00:34:36,477 --> 00:34:37,445
Right?
877
00:34:37,545 --> 00:34:39,814
It's the rich world's
industrialization
878
00:34:39,914 --> 00:34:42,283
that the poor world
is paying the cost of,
879
00:34:42,316 --> 00:34:46,387
in the form of massive
floods or massive droughts.
880
00:34:46,487 --> 00:34:50,825
And there should be some
loss of damage for this.
881
00:34:50,925 --> 00:34:53,828
Some people advocate
for reparations.
882
00:34:53,928 --> 00:34:56,664
I'm actually not
one of those people.
883
00:34:56,764 --> 00:34:59,800
I like to be sort of
left in our approach
884
00:34:59,900 --> 00:35:02,069
to politics and things, but I
also like to get things done.
885
00:35:02,169 --> 00:35:03,337
KAL PENN: I mean,
reparations one is--
886
00:35:03,437 --> 00:35:05,206
I feel like India,
Pakistan, and the US could
887
00:35:05,306 --> 00:35:07,141
get some shit from the UK.
888
00:35:07,308 --> 00:35:09,009
That's exactly
what I mean, right?
889
00:35:09,110 --> 00:35:12,847
So we haven't got any
postcolonial reparations
890
00:35:12,947 --> 00:35:14,582
and slavery reparations.
891
00:35:14,682 --> 00:35:15,950
The conversation
hasn't gone anywhere.
892
00:35:16,050 --> 00:35:17,318
I mean, fair enough,
the activists who
893
00:35:17,418 --> 00:35:19,053
want to argue for
that should, and it's
894
00:35:19,153 --> 00:35:20,554
a legitimate point to make.
895
00:35:20,654 --> 00:35:23,257
But I think a practical
approach is for us to say,
896
00:35:23,290 --> 00:35:25,059
OK, loss and damage exists.
897
00:35:25,159 --> 00:35:27,261
Let's decide who's going
to pay for it later,
898
00:35:27,294 --> 00:35:28,462
but actually, it's
a problem that we
899
00:35:28,562 --> 00:35:29,897
all have to address together.
900
00:35:29,997 --> 00:35:31,932
And international
financial institutions
901
00:35:32,032 --> 00:35:36,437
are just not equipped to deal
with even one climate tragedy
902
00:35:36,537 --> 00:35:38,439
to the scale of what we faced.
903
00:35:38,539 --> 00:35:41,275
Now, the unfortunate thing
is, it's not just one country.
904
00:35:41,375 --> 00:35:43,377
We have historic
floods in Pakistan,
905
00:35:43,477 --> 00:35:45,846
we have historic droughts in
China, and at the same time,
906
00:35:45,946 --> 00:35:50,451
you've got forest fires here in
California, or it's flooding.
907
00:35:50,551 --> 00:35:53,587
And so we need to
rework international
908
00:35:53,687 --> 00:35:55,389
financial institutions.
909
00:35:55,489 --> 00:35:57,758
Rather than looking at
this as reparations,
910
00:35:57,858 --> 00:35:59,427
how are we going
to work together
911
00:35:59,527 --> 00:36:02,696
to come up with the money
to address loss and damage
912
00:36:02,797 --> 00:36:04,498
as a result of climate change?
913
00:36:04,598 --> 00:36:07,768
The fight to put loss and
damage onto the agenda
914
00:36:07,868 --> 00:36:09,537
is a 30-year-old fight.
915
00:36:09,637 --> 00:36:11,639
At the last COP,
it was achieved
916
00:36:11,739 --> 00:36:14,008
under the
chairmanship of Egypt,
917
00:36:14,108 --> 00:36:16,310
that it's now going
to be on the agenda.
918
00:36:16,410 --> 00:36:17,878
It's going to take
a while for this
919
00:36:17,978 --> 00:36:20,648
to be argued out and the
international community
920
00:36:20,748 --> 00:36:21,849
to come to a decision.
921
00:36:21,949 --> 00:36:23,818
It's an important-- it's
an important achievement,
922
00:36:23,918 --> 00:36:24,852
but rather than--
923
00:36:24,952 --> 00:36:27,588
I don't want us to
pit the global North
924
00:36:27,688 --> 00:36:31,592
against the global South,
and try and find solutions
925
00:36:31,692 --> 00:36:32,727
to climate change like that.
926
00:36:32,827 --> 00:36:35,162
I believe that this is a
problem too big for just
927
00:36:35,262 --> 00:36:37,131
America to deal with on
their own or just China
928
00:36:37,264 --> 00:36:38,265
to deal with on their own.
929
00:36:38,299 --> 00:36:39,967
This is something
that the world has
930
00:36:40,067 --> 00:36:42,470
to come together
and decide, are we
931
00:36:42,570 --> 00:36:46,941
going to be distracted by
war and conflict and politics
932
00:36:47,041 --> 00:36:49,443
as usual, or are
we going to find
933
00:36:49,543 --> 00:36:50,845
a solution to this problem?
934
00:36:50,945 --> 00:36:51,979
And I have just--
935
00:36:52,079 --> 00:36:52,980
[applause]
936
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:54,915
Thanks, guys.
937
00:36:55,015 --> 00:36:58,319
And I can say that,
like, experiencing--
938
00:36:58,419 --> 00:37:02,723
I've just experienced this
from the Pakistani perspective,
939
00:37:02,823 --> 00:37:06,360
from this one flood
that wiped out so much
940
00:37:06,460 --> 00:37:08,896
and caused so much
devastation, that we're
941
00:37:08,996 --> 00:37:09,964
not equipped for that.
942
00:37:10,064 --> 00:37:12,733
I see how, whether
it's domestic politics
943
00:37:12,833 --> 00:37:17,671
or geopolitics-- get in the way
of things we even can do now.
944
00:37:17,772 --> 00:37:18,939
So I hope that--
945
00:37:19,039 --> 00:37:20,241
I mean, I know
that your president
946
00:37:20,307 --> 00:37:23,043
has done a lot of stuff
domestically on climate.
947
00:37:23,144 --> 00:37:25,246
And I really hope that
sort of approach--
948
00:37:25,279 --> 00:37:26,947
that sort of mentality
is translated
949
00:37:27,047 --> 00:37:28,149
out into the world stage.
950
00:37:28,249 --> 00:37:30,484
And we can work together
to sort this out.
951
00:37:30,584 --> 00:37:32,119
By the way, Pakistan is--
952
00:37:32,253 --> 00:37:34,488
we've contributed
less than 0.1%
953
00:37:34,588 --> 00:37:37,024
to the global carbon
footprint, but we
954
00:37:37,124 --> 00:37:39,593
are amongst the 10 most
climate-stressed countries
955
00:37:39,693 --> 00:37:40,661
on the planet.
956
00:37:40,761 --> 00:37:43,364
Did you know that
there's a third pole?
957
00:37:43,464 --> 00:37:45,132
There's a North Pole
and a South Pole
958
00:37:45,266 --> 00:37:46,767
that we all knew
about and we're
959
00:37:46,867 --> 00:37:48,069
worried about its melting.
960
00:37:48,169 --> 00:37:50,771
The third pole is in Pakistan,
in the Himalayan regions
961
00:37:50,871 --> 00:37:51,972
of our country.
962
00:37:52,073 --> 00:37:52,973
Is this real, or is this
a conspiracy theory thing?
963
00:37:53,074 --> 00:37:54,041
This is real.
This is real.
964
00:37:54,141 --> 00:37:55,276
OK.
965
00:37:55,342 --> 00:37:57,311
We like our numbers to
go up, so just, you know.
966
00:37:57,411 --> 00:37:59,580
The third pole is
technically in Pakistan--
967
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,516
the largest number of
glaciers on the peaks
968
00:38:02,616 --> 00:38:06,287
of the mountain ranges
between our two countries.
969
00:38:06,387 --> 00:38:08,756
And I'm-- as a result of
climate change, obviously,
970
00:38:08,856 --> 00:38:10,357
the North and South Pole
are going to be melting,
971
00:38:10,458 --> 00:38:12,193
but this third pole is
going to be melting.
972
00:38:12,293 --> 00:38:14,395
Our rivers are fed
by these glaciers.
973
00:38:14,495 --> 00:38:16,530
So what that means
is, in the short term,
974
00:38:16,630 --> 00:38:19,500
as this pole melts, as
these glaciers melt,
975
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,068
we will be faced by floods.
976
00:38:21,168 --> 00:38:22,803
The flood that we just
experienced, by the way--
977
00:38:22,903 --> 00:38:24,271
not a riverine flood--
978
00:38:24,371 --> 00:38:25,906
a flood that came
from the skies.
979
00:38:26,006 --> 00:38:28,743
We are predicted to face
far more greater flooding
980
00:38:28,843 --> 00:38:31,045
from the rivers as
these glaciers melt.
981
00:38:31,145 --> 00:38:34,749
Once these glaciers melt,
our water source is done.
982
00:38:34,849 --> 00:38:38,152
We won't be able to provide
drinking water to the people
983
00:38:38,252 --> 00:38:39,186
that live in my country.
984
00:38:39,286 --> 00:38:42,089
This is one country's
problem when
985
00:38:42,189 --> 00:38:43,457
it comes to climate change.
986
00:38:43,557 --> 00:38:46,160
There are a whole host of other
countries that are facing--
987
00:38:46,260 --> 00:38:48,629
for them and for us, the
crisis is here and now.
988
00:38:48,729 --> 00:38:49,897
This is not a tomorrow issue.
989
00:38:49,997 --> 00:38:51,766
For all of these
issues, is there
990
00:38:51,866 --> 00:38:54,335
capacity to take action, both
in the short or long term,
991
00:38:54,435 --> 00:38:55,503
for you?
992
00:38:55,603 --> 00:38:57,371
Or is that something
that is being worked out?
993
00:38:57,471 --> 00:38:59,573
And I'm asking that
also in the context of,
994
00:38:59,673 --> 00:39:01,542
you are clearly very
passionate about this issue.
995
00:39:01,642 --> 00:39:03,344
This almost goes back to
my first question about,
996
00:39:03,444 --> 00:39:07,148
you being a young
leader in Pakistan,
997
00:39:07,248 --> 00:39:10,050
I would imagine
you feel this issue
998
00:39:10,151 --> 00:39:11,452
a lot more than others might.
999
00:39:11,552 --> 00:39:12,720
BILAWAL BHUTTO ZARDARI: So the
two things-- first of all, I'm
1000
00:39:12,820 --> 00:39:14,855
very proud of the fact that
my mother's last manifesto
1001
00:39:14,955 --> 00:39:17,591
in 2007 before she
was assassinated--
1002
00:39:17,691 --> 00:39:19,827
she was the first
Pakistani politician
1003
00:39:19,927 --> 00:39:21,629
to have climate on her agenda.
1004
00:39:21,729 --> 00:39:24,365
And I often think that had
we started addressing things
1005
00:39:24,465 --> 00:39:26,400
then in 2007, 2008,
and 2009, maybe
1006
00:39:26,500 --> 00:39:27,735
we wouldn't be here today.
1007
00:39:27,835 --> 00:39:32,139
But despite all of that,
I was not the most hyper
1008
00:39:32,306 --> 00:39:33,140
of climate activists.
1009
00:39:33,307 --> 00:39:34,308
Like, OK, I got it.
1010
00:39:34,341 --> 00:39:35,943
We will do some wind,
we'll do some solar,
1011
00:39:36,043 --> 00:39:37,745
and hopefully,
things will be fine.
1012
00:39:37,845 --> 00:39:41,182
My worldview changed
overnight when
1013
00:39:41,315 --> 00:39:45,786
my home, the villages around
it, the people that I know--
1014
00:39:45,886 --> 00:39:50,458
suddenly, just water as
far as the eye could see.
1015
00:39:50,558 --> 00:39:53,527
And now, yeah,
frankly, go Greta.
1016
00:39:53,627 --> 00:39:55,463
I completely--
1017
00:39:55,563 --> 00:39:56,731
[applause]
1018
00:39:56,831 --> 00:40:01,736
I-- It is-- we've been
forced, forced from--
1019
00:40:01,836 --> 00:40:04,105
until it doesn't happen
to you, you don't
1020
00:40:04,205 --> 00:40:05,873
really know what's coming.
1021
00:40:05,973 --> 00:40:07,875
And now that has happened
to us, the thought
1022
00:40:07,975 --> 00:40:10,478
that this could happen
regularly, it devastates me.
1023
00:40:10,578 --> 00:40:14,448
Because I've never felt so
disempowered in that moment.
1024
00:40:14,548 --> 00:40:18,486
What do you do when overnight,
33 million people need
1025
00:40:18,586 --> 00:40:21,288
your help, but you don't have
the tents, you don't have
1026
00:40:21,355 --> 00:40:23,891
the rations, you can't--
1027
00:40:23,991 --> 00:40:25,359
we're usually used to drought.
1028
00:40:25,459 --> 00:40:26,660
We don't have boats.
1029
00:40:26,761 --> 00:40:30,197
How do we get out to these--
it was the most difficult
1030
00:40:30,297 --> 00:40:31,699
period in my public life.
1031
00:40:31,799 --> 00:40:34,001
And it's not on the agenda.
1032
00:40:34,101 --> 00:40:37,004
It's not in the
media conversation.
1033
00:40:37,104 --> 00:40:40,908
But on the ground, we're
feeling this like severely.
1034
00:40:41,008 --> 00:40:42,343
This is why I wanted
to ask you about it.
1035
00:40:42,443 --> 00:40:44,378
I thought it was important
work that you're doing.
1036
00:40:44,478 --> 00:40:49,417
You know, the Taliban is
back in power in Afghanistan.
1037
00:40:49,517 --> 00:40:52,086
I think my biggest curiosity--
1038
00:40:52,186 --> 00:40:53,888
since they are the
government in Afghanistan,
1039
00:40:53,988 --> 00:40:57,725
they're your neighbor-- what's
it like negotiating with them?
1040
00:40:57,825 --> 00:40:59,994
What's it like
when you have to--
1041
00:41:00,094 --> 00:41:02,930
So that's an
interesting question.
1042
00:41:03,030 --> 00:41:08,769
So the Taliban in
Afghanistan are now in
1043
00:41:08,869 --> 00:41:10,271
the interim government there.
1044
00:41:10,337 --> 00:41:13,274
And that is a result of
the Doha deal process
1045
00:41:13,374 --> 00:41:17,678
that they negotiated directly
with the United States.
1046
00:41:17,778 --> 00:41:22,149
And we, being their neighbor,
even though, like the rest
1047
00:41:22,283 --> 00:41:23,584
of the world, we
haven't recognized them
1048
00:41:23,684 --> 00:41:26,287
diplomatically, et
cetera, are forced
1049
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,290
to engage with the
reality on our border.
1050
00:41:29,356 --> 00:41:32,560
We can't afford to wash our
hands and turn our backs
1051
00:41:32,660 --> 00:41:36,163
and pretend that
nothing has changed.
1052
00:41:36,297 --> 00:41:38,933
And we are advocating,
not only for ourselves,
1053
00:41:39,033 --> 00:41:40,968
but for the
international community,
1054
00:41:41,068 --> 00:41:43,037
to also engage with them.
1055
00:41:43,137 --> 00:41:46,340
I believe that we were off to
a positive start, initially,
1056
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:50,211
but given what's happened
with women's education
1057
00:41:50,311 --> 00:41:51,946
and their right to
access education,
1058
00:41:52,046 --> 00:41:55,449
it's becoming an
incredibly difficult for me
1059
00:41:55,549 --> 00:41:58,319
or others like me who do want
to engage with them, who do
1060
00:41:58,385 --> 00:42:01,122
want to find solutions to
the problems the people
1061
00:42:01,222 --> 00:42:03,157
of Afghanistan are facing.
1062
00:42:03,324 --> 00:42:06,026
Because they are taking these
decisions that, at the very
1063
00:42:06,127 --> 00:42:09,463
least, to say it the most
diplomatically that I can,
1064
00:42:09,563 --> 00:42:11,799
I mean, it's not
helping us help them.
1065
00:42:11,899 --> 00:42:17,271
And our consistent concern
is that whatever happens
1066
00:42:17,304 --> 00:42:20,007
in Afghanistan, Pakistan is
going to be the first people
1067
00:42:20,107 --> 00:42:21,709
to feel the consequences.
1068
00:42:21,809 --> 00:42:25,413
There's this old saying
that if Kabul sneezes,
1069
00:42:25,513 --> 00:42:27,148
Islamabad catches a cold.
1070
00:42:27,281 --> 00:42:28,849
And we're already seeing that.
1071
00:42:28,949 --> 00:42:32,052
We have-- the
United Nations says
1072
00:42:32,153 --> 00:42:35,423
that 97% of the
population in Afghanistan
1073
00:42:35,523 --> 00:42:38,125
are falling beneath
the poverty line.
1074
00:42:38,292 --> 00:42:42,430
That means that the number
of refugees and their exodus
1075
00:42:42,530 --> 00:42:44,198
is going to be affected.
1076
00:42:44,298 --> 00:42:47,201
Pakistan has already
accepted millions of refugees
1077
00:42:47,301 --> 00:42:49,203
in the past, but
thousands-- hundreds
1078
00:42:49,303 --> 00:42:50,404
of thousands of
refugees have come
1079
00:42:50,504 --> 00:42:52,740
over since the fall of Kabul.
1080
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,910
The more the economic situation
deteriorates in Afghanistan,
1081
00:42:56,010 --> 00:42:59,680
the more cannon fodder the
terrorist groups over there
1082
00:42:59,780 --> 00:43:01,115
are going to have,
the more people
1083
00:43:01,215 --> 00:43:03,918
they're going to be able
to recruit to their cause.
1084
00:43:04,018 --> 00:43:06,487
And we have seen, since
the fall of Kabul,
1085
00:43:06,587 --> 00:43:10,091
a steady uptick of terrorist
activity in Pakistan.
1086
00:43:10,257 --> 00:43:14,995
If there's a regime that says
that girls can't get education
1087
00:43:15,096 --> 00:43:17,398
in Afghanistan, it's
not going to be too long
1088
00:43:17,498 --> 00:43:19,066
till politicians are
going to start popping up
1089
00:43:19,166 --> 00:43:20,468
in my neck of the
woods, saying that we
1090
00:43:20,568 --> 00:43:23,637
should also not let girls
have access to education.
1091
00:43:23,738 --> 00:43:27,908
So I think, A, it's incredibly
important to engage with them.
1092
00:43:28,008 --> 00:43:30,177
But at the same
time, my request
1093
00:43:30,277 --> 00:43:32,613
to them, and through
your TV show to them,
1094
00:43:32,713 --> 00:43:35,349
would be, let
girls learn, guys.
1095
00:43:35,449 --> 00:43:42,423
[cheering, applause]
1096
00:43:44,825 --> 00:43:47,628
The contrast that
you just set up
1097
00:43:47,728 --> 00:43:49,296
is certainly pronounced.
1098
00:43:49,397 --> 00:43:52,299
And you know, most
Americans, I think,
1099
00:43:52,333 --> 00:43:55,169
still associate Pakistan
with harboring bin Laden,
1100
00:43:55,302 --> 00:43:56,537
with issues of terror.
1101
00:43:56,637 --> 00:43:58,072
How do we move
beyond that, in terms
1102
00:43:58,172 --> 00:43:59,607
of US-Pakistan relations?
1103
00:43:59,707 --> 00:44:01,409
You know, what's next?
1104
00:44:01,509 --> 00:44:03,144
So how do we
move beyond that?
1105
00:44:03,310 --> 00:44:07,081
I think that at that--
1106
00:44:07,181 --> 00:44:09,950
whatever happened
during the war on terror
1107
00:44:10,050 --> 00:44:12,153
and the entire period
that followed--
1108
00:44:12,253 --> 00:44:13,921
there's a fog of war.
1109
00:44:14,021 --> 00:44:16,257
And that colors everyone's
decision-making,
1110
00:44:16,290 --> 00:44:18,392
everyone's perception.
1111
00:44:18,492 --> 00:44:21,762
What we have now is a reality
in Afghanistan, a reality that
1112
00:44:21,862 --> 00:44:24,665
has very serious consequences,
first for Pakistan, but all
1113
00:44:24,765 --> 00:44:26,267
the issues I mentioned.
1114
00:44:26,333 --> 00:44:30,771
Whether it's the
refugees or terrorism--
1115
00:44:30,871 --> 00:44:32,606
Pakistan's problem
today-- tomorrow,
1116
00:44:32,706 --> 00:44:34,108
it will be other
countries problem.
1117
00:44:34,275 --> 00:44:37,545
We have to get
serious about engaging
1118
00:44:37,645 --> 00:44:39,046
on the topic of Afghanistan.
1119
00:44:39,146 --> 00:44:42,183
I believe that based on
the facts on the ground,
1120
00:44:42,283 --> 00:44:45,519
the position and
perspective of Pakistan
1121
00:44:45,619 --> 00:44:48,189
and the United States--
actually, we meet eye to eye.
1122
00:44:48,289 --> 00:44:50,891
We see things quite sim--
1123
00:44:50,991 --> 00:44:53,027
you know, we're basically
on the same page.
1124
00:44:53,127 --> 00:44:54,695
And whatever has
happened in the past,
1125
00:44:54,795 --> 00:44:56,630
we should be able to
have honest conversations
1126
00:44:56,731 --> 00:44:57,898
about that.
1127
00:44:57,998 --> 00:44:59,800
And there can be many studies
and analysis about what
1128
00:44:59,900 --> 00:45:02,303
went wrong where, but
it's also time for us
1129
00:45:02,336 --> 00:45:03,604
to get working together,
and what are we
1130
00:45:03,704 --> 00:45:04,805
going to do about the future?
1131
00:45:04,905 --> 00:45:06,373
What are we going to do
about the present day?
1132
00:45:06,474 --> 00:45:07,508
And that's what
I've been working
1133
00:45:07,608 --> 00:45:09,477
on with my counterpart,
Secretary Blinken.
1134
00:45:09,577 --> 00:45:10,911
KAL PENN: I have one
last question for you.
1135
00:45:11,011 --> 00:45:13,147
You know, I know, regardless
of your political party
1136
00:45:13,247 --> 00:45:14,782
or your political
opposition, clearly,
1137
00:45:14,882 --> 00:45:18,352
you are the youngest person
to serve in this role.
1138
00:45:18,452 --> 00:45:20,387
What's your message to
other young people who feel
1139
00:45:20,488 --> 00:45:21,455
called to serve?
1140
00:45:21,555 --> 00:45:22,456
Oh, never give up.
1141
00:45:22,556 --> 00:45:23,858
And give your best shot.
1142
00:45:23,958 --> 00:45:27,328
I can't tell you the
amount of times--
1143
00:45:27,428 --> 00:45:30,765
for example, when
we removed Mr. Khan
1144
00:45:30,865 --> 00:45:32,700
from his prime ministership,
it was the first time
1145
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,069
in Pakistan's history
that a dictator didn't
1146
00:45:35,169 --> 00:45:36,804
come in and kick out
a prime minister,
1147
00:45:36,904 --> 00:45:39,273
that a judge didn't order the
removal of a prime minister,
1148
00:45:39,373 --> 00:45:42,309
but for the first time, our
parliament voted them out.
1149
00:45:42,410 --> 00:45:44,678
And that idea-- that
proposition came from me.
1150
00:45:44,779 --> 00:45:47,047
But it took me two years
to convince everybody else,
1151
00:45:47,148 --> 00:45:50,317
because no one believed
that it would happen.
1152
00:45:50,418 --> 00:45:52,052
And ultimately, it did.
1153
00:45:52,153 --> 00:45:55,790
So the one thing that I've
learned from what I'm doing--
1154
00:45:55,890 --> 00:45:57,291
that it's difficult
and it's tough
1155
00:45:57,391 --> 00:45:58,659
and all those other things.
1156
00:45:58,759 --> 00:46:01,629
But the more young people we
have who get to look at things
1157
00:46:01,729 --> 00:46:04,131
for the long term and not just
sort of the imminent future,
1158
00:46:04,298 --> 00:46:06,033
the short-term
solution, that actually
1159
00:46:06,133 --> 00:46:07,668
have to live with
the consequences
1160
00:46:07,768 --> 00:46:09,036
of their decisions--
1161
00:46:09,136 --> 00:46:10,538
the better decisions
we can make.
1162
00:46:10,638 --> 00:46:14,041
Thank you for joining us,
and thank you for your candor.
1163
00:46:14,141 --> 00:46:15,042
I really appreciate it.
1164
00:46:15,142 --> 00:46:16,043
Thank you, Mr. Zardari.
1165
00:46:16,143 --> 00:46:17,111
Appreciate it.
1166
00:46:17,244 --> 00:46:19,547
OK, we're going to
take a quick break,
1167
00:46:19,647 --> 00:46:21,315
but we'll be right
back after this.
1168
00:46:21,415 --> 00:46:23,384
Thank you so much.
1169
00:46:23,484 --> 00:46:25,986
Really detailed--
the climate stuff--
1170
00:46:26,087 --> 00:46:29,123
[cheering, applause]
1171
00:46:33,726 --> 00:46:37,764
[applause]
1172
00:46:37,864 --> 00:46:39,599
All right, that's
our show for tonight.
1173
00:46:39,699 --> 00:46:41,968
But before we go, please
consider supporting
1174
00:46:42,068 --> 00:46:43,736
South Asian Youth Action.
1175
00:46:43,836 --> 00:46:46,672
They provide accessible,
safe, and culturally
1176
00:46:46,773 --> 00:46:48,207
affirming year-round
programming
1177
00:46:48,307 --> 00:46:49,242
to New York City students.
1178
00:46:49,342 --> 00:46:50,510
If you can support
them in their work,
1179
00:46:50,610 --> 00:46:52,311
please donate at
the link below.
1180
00:46:52,411 --> 00:46:54,480
Now here it is,
your moment of zen.
1181
00:46:54,580 --> 00:46:57,483
If there's a massive
crash, do people
1182
00:46:57,583 --> 00:47:01,154
get mad if Pete Buttigieg
doesn't come out immediately?
1183
00:47:01,254 --> 00:47:02,855
Do people get mad if what?
1184
00:47:02,955 --> 00:47:04,524
(SINGING) MTV.