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♪ ♪
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ANNOUNCER: Coming to you
from New York City,
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the only city in America,
it's The Daily Show.
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Tonight:
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the EPA can't EPA no more.
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Veronica Ivy.
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And Moses Ingram.
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This is The Daily Show
with Trevor Noah.
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-♪ ♪
-(cheering, applause)
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What's going on, everybody.
Welcome to The Daily Show.
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I'm Trevor Noah.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
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Thank you for
coming out in person.
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This is it. Look at you. Look at
you. Look at you. Take a seat.
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Let's do it, everyone.
Thanks for being here.
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We have got a jam-packed show
for you tonight.
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Prince Charles
is balling out of control.
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Reparations are finally here
for one Black family.
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And the Supreme Court
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has learned the error of
its ways and vowed to do better.
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Nah, I'm just kidding.
They're gonna kill us all.
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So, let's do this, people.
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Let's jump straight
into today's headlines.
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-♪ ♪
-(cheering, applause)
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Okay. Let's kick things off
with the Supreme Court--
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America's Got Talent
but for laws and stuff.
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From the moment
Amy Coney Barrett was sworn in,
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it was only a matter of time
before the Supreme Court
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started restoring America
back to its factory settings.
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And in the last few weeks,
they decided that
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church and state
should get a little cozier.
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They decided that
America's real gun problem
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is that there
aren't enough of them.
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And they decided that
coochies are state property.
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And today, as they were
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closing out their term,
they decided this.
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The big news out of
the U.S. Supreme Court,
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the high court
just handing down
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their final two decisions
of this historic term.
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First, a major
environmental case,
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the court deciding six to three
in favor of sharply curbing
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the EPA's authority to regulate
greenhouse gas emissions.
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NEWSMAN: This is a big setback
for the Biden administration
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for its efforts
to restrict global warming.
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Wait, wait, what?
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The Supreme Court ruled that
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the Environmental
Protection Agency
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does not have the authority
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to protect the environment?
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So, what is their job now?
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Just gonna look at
the environment and be like,
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"Oh, shit!
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"All right,
that was a good day at work.
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You guys want
to get some drinks?"
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And by the way, I don't know
if it's the same for you,
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it's always weird to me
how the news in America
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frames some of these stories,
you know?
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Like, "This is a defeat
for the Biden administration."
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It is a defeat for human life.
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It has nothing to do with Biden.
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You realize if we
don't get it under control,
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climate change is gonna wipe us
off the planet. All right?
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And still, these news anchors
are gonna be underwater, like,
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(warbling): "Will the rising
sea levels hurt the Democrats
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and help the Republicans
in the midterms?"
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(regular voice):
And by the way, by the way,
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just so you understand,
this ruling might not
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just be about
the carbon emissions.
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A lot of experts believe
the logic of today's ruling
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makes it harder for the
government to regulate anything
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unless Congress specifically
passes a law to do it.
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Because, you see, right now,
a lot of regulations
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are made by agencies,
like-like the FDA--
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they will handle,
like, food, you know?
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The CDC with public health.
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Uh, the BRB with
ignoring text messages. And...
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and I know these agencies aren't
perfect-- don't get me wrong.
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But could you imagine
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if Congress had to approve,
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like, vaccines?
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Imagine if you had to
wait for them.
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It would have never happened.
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We'd still all be
locked in our houses
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clapping out of our windows
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because Congress couldn't
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convince Marjorie Taylor Greene
that needles
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weren't actually
a space alien conspiracy.
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Then where did they come from?
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The one thing
that's clear is that
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from environmental regulations
to abortion to guns
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to school prayer
to voter rights, this is
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one of the most radical
Supreme Courts
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in American history.
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And by the way,
people agree on that
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from across
the political spectrum.
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You know? Rachel Maddow is like,
"This is so radical."
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And Sean Hannity is like,
This is so radical! (whoops)"
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And they're also imposing
their power on a country
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that, for the most part,
for the most part,
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isn't on board with any of it.
Right?
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Which is why many liberals
are now calling for some
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major reforms, like adding
more seats to the court
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or imposing term limits
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or setting up a trap
for Brett Kavanaugh.
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You never know. It might work.
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But let's move on.
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Let's move on from the people
handing down the judgments
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to the people receiving them.
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This week, we saw
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two major sex trafficking cases
come to an end.
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One was with R. Kelly,
R & B legend
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and guy we wished had stayed
trapped in a closet,
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and the other
was Ghislaine Maxwell,
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windowless van in human form.
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And the good news is...
the good news is
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they're gonna have a long time
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to think
about what they've done.
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Grammy-winning singer
and songwriter R. Kelly
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has been sentenced
to 30 years in prison
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for racketeering
and sex trafficking.
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Kelly was convicted
of running a criminal enterprise
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that recruited women
and young girls for sex.
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20 years behind bars
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for convicted sex trafficker
Ghislaine Maxwell.
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The 60-year-old was found guilty
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of conspiring
with the late financier
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and convicted sex offender
Jeffrey Epstein
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to sexually abuse
and traffic young girls.
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Yeah, that's right. R. Kelly
is getting 30 years in prison,
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and Ghislaine Maxwell
is getting 20.
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And once again,
we see that women
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are only earning two-thirds
of what men get.
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(laughter and applause)
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Shame on you, America.
Shame on you.
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She did all that work,
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and Jeffrey Epstein, a man,
still got all the credit.
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Not to mention,
she gets sentenced for 20 years
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but, Jeffrey Epstein,
he was in prison
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for, what, a few weeks? Huh?
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And then Hillary got him out?
Huh?
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(audience groaning)
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You know,
what's crazy about this,
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what's crazy about this thing
is how everyone has
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a conspiracy theory
about Jeffrey Epstein
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or who's gonna come
for Ghislaine Maxwell.
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Everyone.
But what I've noticed is
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it depends
on what people's politics is.
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Right? Some people,
"It's gonna be Donald Trump."
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"It's gonna be Hillary
that'll kill her."
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"It's gonna be the royal family.
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Illuminati."
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You know what I was thinking?
Wouldn't it be funny
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if everyone was right?
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Like, what if all these
powerful people were involved,
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and then, like,
they all bump into each other
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on the way
to Ghislaine Maxwell's cell.
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You know? They just get there,
and it's like,
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"Oh, my God, Crooked Hillary.
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"What are you doing here?
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"Oh, were you also...
So embarrassing.
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"I was gonna...
Oh, and the queen, as well.
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What are you doing, Queen?
It's an honor."
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She's like, "I'm just here
to protect my embarrassing son.
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You know what that's like,
Donald."
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"Eric is not my son.
He's not my son.
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Don't say that, Queenie."
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(cheering and applause)
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So, Ghislaine's "sentos"--
sentenced.
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R. Kelly's sentenced.
And I'll tell you what.
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Whichever prison
R. Kelly is going to
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is getting a major upgrade.
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Say what you want,
that dude is gonna dominate
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the prison talent show.
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Yeah. I'm sorry.
The guy who won last year?
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Nobody gives a shit
about your juggling act now.
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In fact, whichever prison
R. Kelly goes to,
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they better jack up
the security,
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'cause once R. Kelly sings,
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I don't care
how much you hate him.
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Nobody can stop. No one can stop
themselves from dancing.
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Yeah, he'll start singing
"Step in the Name of Love,"
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and the guards
are gonna be like...
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♪ Step, step, side ♪
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"Somebody stop him!"
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♪ Round and round ♪
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"No!"
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♪ Separate and bring it back ♪
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♪ Now let me see you do. ♪
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(cheering and applause)
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Nobody can stop.
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By the way, I wish they
would have given us that song
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and taken R. Kelly with it.
Like, the song is so...
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They should've just said
the song...
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The song did nothing. You-you...
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Could've adopted the song
like a child.
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"I'll look after this song."
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(laughter)
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But anyway, yeah.
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Justice has been served.
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And let this be a lesson to
other prominent sex traffickers.
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The law will catch up with you.
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After letting you
totally get away with it
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for, like, 25 years.
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You watch out.
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You watch out. Doesn't matter.
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(cheering and applause)
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R. Kelly, Ghislaine Maxwell,
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Jeffrey Epstein
and the prince and...
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Oh, and speaking
of the royal family,
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this week, this week,
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we found out
that Prince Charles,
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the queen's
slightly less embarrassing son,
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has a very unusual way
of funding his charities.
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Royal sources say tonight
that Prince Charles
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will no longer personally handle
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large cash donations
for his charities.
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NEWSWOMAN:
The prince came under fire
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over reports
he'd been handed a cash donation
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totaling three million euros,
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some of it stuffed
into a suitcase
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from a former
Qatari prime minister
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several years ago.
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NEWSWOMAN 2:
Clarence House,
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which is
where Prince Charles lives,
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says the money was
all charitable donations.
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Clarence House says it followed
the correct processes
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regarding those donations.
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Royal officials say they dispute
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many of the details
in that report.
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Yeah. So, in case
you're a little bit lost,
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it turns out
after an investigation,
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they found that Prince Charles
had received suitcases
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full of cash from a Qatari,
all right?
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And he was like,
"This is for my charity"
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and now says,
"I-I realize this was wrong
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and I will now no longer do it."
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But I...
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I love how they say
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Prince Charles will no longer
accept suitcases full of cash,
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like he just realized
this was a shady thing to do.
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He's like, "All right, all
right, no cash in a suitcase.
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"From now on,
it's just bags of cocaine, okay?
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"What? No, not that?
Okay, come on!
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"I can't do anything? Come on!
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-Come on!"
-(cheering and applause)
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How you gonna act like this is
the first time you figured tha--
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Like, I don't care
what it's for--
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suitcase full of cash
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is always shady.
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If your grandmother gives you
five dollars for your birthday,
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but she slips it to you
in a suitcase...
251
00:09:46,053 --> 00:09:47,955
...your grandmother's up
to some shit.
252
00:09:49,923 --> 00:09:52,092
'Cause they say this was
for Prince Charles' charity.
253
00:09:52,192 --> 00:09:54,061
My only question is,
what kind of charity is it
254
00:09:54,161 --> 00:09:56,530
that needs to be paid
in all cash?
255
00:09:56,630 --> 00:09:57,865
Huh?
256
00:09:57,965 --> 00:10:00,067
What, has it got its
headquarters in a strip club?
257
00:10:00,033 --> 00:10:01,034
Huh?
258
00:10:01,134 --> 00:10:02,769
Like, "This money
will do a lot of help,
259
00:10:02,870 --> 00:10:04,304
"uh, against poverty.
260
00:10:04,404 --> 00:10:06,139
"Uh, in fact,
here comes Poverty right now.
261
00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:07,374
"Here you go, Poverty.
262
00:10:07,474 --> 00:10:09,209
"Shake that ass, girl. Shake it.
263
00:10:09,309 --> 00:10:11,278
Shake it, Poverty. Shake it."
264
00:10:11,378 --> 00:10:13,380
(cheering and applause)
265
00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:15,182
And, you know, this is one
of those things that shows you
266
00:10:15,282 --> 00:10:17,117
the difference
between normal people
267
00:10:17,217 --> 00:10:18,852
and really powerful people.
268
00:10:18,952 --> 00:10:20,387
Right? Doesn't matter
if it's Prince Charles
269
00:10:20,487 --> 00:10:22,089
or American politicians,
270
00:10:22,189 --> 00:10:23,657
African presidents.
271
00:10:23,757 --> 00:10:24,825
Right? They just get to say,
272
00:10:24,925 --> 00:10:26,527
"We made an error in judgment
273
00:10:26,627 --> 00:10:28,328
"and so we're gonna use
this money
274
00:10:28,428 --> 00:10:29,930
"to spend some time
in St. Tropez thinking
275
00:10:30,030 --> 00:10:31,431
"about what we've done.
276
00:10:31,532 --> 00:10:32,466
We're so sorry."
277
00:10:32,566 --> 00:10:34,201
But as a regular person,
278
00:10:34,301 --> 00:10:36,837
if the government finds you
with a suitcase full of cash
279
00:10:36,937 --> 00:10:38,205
from anywhere,
280
00:10:38,305 --> 00:10:39,439
anywhere,
281
00:10:39,540 --> 00:10:40,941
there's no apologizing.
282
00:10:41,041 --> 00:10:42,709
Probably gonna end up
with a front row seat
283
00:10:42,809 --> 00:10:44,211
to one of those R. Kelly
prison concerts.
284
00:10:44,311 --> 00:10:45,212
That's where you'll be.
285
00:10:45,312 --> 00:10:47,381
♪ Side to side, step... ♪
286
00:10:47,481 --> 00:10:48,682
(cheering and applause)
287
00:10:48,782 --> 00:10:49,983
Don't play around.
288
00:10:51,185 --> 00:10:53,120
Okay, finally,
289
00:10:53,220 --> 00:10:54,655
let's move on, let's move on
290
00:10:54,755 --> 00:10:58,659
to a good story about people
getting tons of money.
291
00:10:58,759 --> 00:11:00,861
Now, many people
may or may not know this,
292
00:11:00,961 --> 00:11:03,063
but there was a time in America
293
00:11:03,096 --> 00:11:04,731
where Black people
had their rights
294
00:11:04,831 --> 00:11:07,367
and property taken away
from them.
295
00:11:07,467 --> 00:11:09,169
And it was a period known as
296
00:11:09,269 --> 00:11:11,071
all of human history.
297
00:11:12,072 --> 00:11:15,375
A-And that may seem as a shock
for many of you to hear,
298
00:11:15,475 --> 00:11:16,710
especially if you go to school
in Florida,
299
00:11:16,810 --> 00:11:18,512
but it is true.
300
00:11:18,612 --> 00:11:20,614
And, unfortunately, most Black
people who lost their land
301
00:11:20,714 --> 00:11:22,416
have had no way to find justice.
302
00:11:22,516 --> 00:11:24,952
But after nearly 100 years,
303
00:11:25,085 --> 00:11:27,221
one family
in Manhattan Beach, California,
304
00:11:27,321 --> 00:11:30,390
is finally getting
a little of what they deserve.
305
00:11:30,490 --> 00:11:33,093
NEWSMAN: A prime Southern
California beachfront property
306
00:11:33,193 --> 00:11:35,696
is being returned to its
rightful and original owners
307
00:11:35,796 --> 00:11:37,497
more than 100 years
after officials
308
00:11:37,598 --> 00:11:40,000
actually took this land
from a Black family.
309
00:11:40,100 --> 00:11:43,203
L.A. County leaders voted to
give it back to the descendants.
310
00:11:43,303 --> 00:11:45,739
The property was
originally bought in 1912.
311
00:11:45,839 --> 00:11:48,742
The original owners turned it
into a resort for Black families
312
00:11:48,842 --> 00:11:51,211
since they were barred
from many of the beaches.
313
00:11:51,311 --> 00:11:53,447
White neighbors
soon targeted that property
314
00:11:53,547 --> 00:11:55,349
with racist threats
and harassment.
315
00:11:55,449 --> 00:11:58,452
The city eventually seized
the property in 1929,
316
00:11:58,552 --> 00:12:00,087
claiming eminent domain.
317
00:12:00,187 --> 00:12:02,055
Well, now the county is going
to lease the land back
318
00:12:02,089 --> 00:12:04,691
to the current heirs and then
give them the option to sell it
319
00:12:04,791 --> 00:12:06,193
for themselves down the road.
320
00:12:06,293 --> 00:12:07,861
NEWSWOMAN: The Bruce family
originally bought that land
321
00:12:07,961 --> 00:12:09,663
for just over $1,200.
322
00:12:09,763 --> 00:12:12,799
Now it's worth
about $20 million.
323
00:12:12,900 --> 00:12:14,835
-Yeah.
-(cheering and applause)
324
00:12:14,935 --> 00:12:16,904
That's right. That is amazing.
325
00:12:17,938 --> 00:12:19,773
That is amazing.
326
00:12:19,873 --> 00:12:21,108
Long time coming, too.
327
00:12:21,208 --> 00:12:24,711
The government is giving
these people back their land.
328
00:12:24,811 --> 00:12:27,881
Although that's just proof
that climate change is real.
329
00:12:27,981 --> 00:12:30,150
Yeah. All of a sudden,
the government is like,
330
00:12:30,250 --> 00:12:31,818
"You know what? The oceanfront
property can go back
331
00:12:31,919 --> 00:12:33,453
"to the Black people.
Here, take it, take it.
332
00:12:33,554 --> 00:12:34,988
Take it, take it."
You're like, "Why?"
333
00:12:35,088 --> 00:12:37,658
"Eh, don't worry,
don't worry. Take it."
334
00:12:37,758 --> 00:12:39,993
No, no, no, but, for real,
for real, this is great news.
335
00:12:40,093 --> 00:12:42,763
It's great news for that family,
great news for justice.
336
00:12:42,863 --> 00:12:44,331
And it's especially exciting
337
00:12:44,431 --> 00:12:47,100
because now
there's a Black beach.
338
00:12:47,134 --> 00:12:49,369
Yeah. Yeah, 'cause
I've seen white beaches.
339
00:12:49,469 --> 00:12:51,805
They've got people surfing,
playing volleyball,
340
00:12:51,905 --> 00:12:53,307
sunbathing, you know.
341
00:12:53,407 --> 00:12:55,242
But this is gonna be
a Black beach.
342
00:12:55,342 --> 00:12:57,110
And you know
what that's gonna be like.
343
00:12:57,177 --> 00:12:59,346
It's gonna have people surfing,
playing volleyball,
344
00:12:59,446 --> 00:13:01,248
sunba-- What did you think
I was gonna say, huh?
345
00:13:01,348 --> 00:13:02,382
You thought it was gonna be
different 'cause they're Black?
346
00:13:02,482 --> 00:13:03,717
-You're racist!
-(cheering and applause)
347
00:13:03,817 --> 00:13:06,286
Every one of you who thought
something, you're racist!
348
00:13:06,386 --> 00:13:08,388
What, you thought a Black beach
was gonna have drive-bys?
349
00:13:08,488 --> 00:13:09,857
Huh? And people yelling
at the movie screen?
350
00:13:09,957 --> 00:13:11,592
Educate yourself!
351
00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:16,063
I like to ray-- lay racism traps
just to see who comes out.
352
00:13:16,096 --> 00:13:18,298
Anyway...
(laughs)
353
00:13:18,398 --> 00:13:19,666
This is the thing,
this is the thing
354
00:13:19,766 --> 00:13:22,069
people don't seem to realize,
right, with the story.
355
00:13:22,169 --> 00:13:24,838
The property
is now worth $20 million.
356
00:13:24,938 --> 00:13:27,875
Right? It was bought for $1,200
back in, like, the 1920s.
357
00:13:27,975 --> 00:13:29,843
And that's what people don't get
358
00:13:29,943 --> 00:13:32,946
is how Black Americans
have been held back.
359
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,182
Right? People always say...
360
00:13:35,282 --> 00:13:38,185
-(applause) -People always say,
"Oh, come on.
361
00:13:38,285 --> 00:13:39,653
"Can't we move on
in this country?
362
00:13:39,753 --> 00:13:42,222
That was a long time ago."
Yeah, exactly.
363
00:13:42,322 --> 00:13:44,324
And in that time,
364
00:13:44,424 --> 00:13:47,294
Black Americans
could have built wealth.
365
00:13:47,394 --> 00:13:49,363
-(applause and cheering)
-That's what the whole point is.
366
00:13:49,463 --> 00:13:50,764
It's time.
367
00:13:50,864 --> 00:13:54,835
You see this all over America.
368
00:13:54,935 --> 00:13:56,503
All over the United States,
you see this.
369
00:13:56,603 --> 00:13:58,005
I mean, look at New York.
370
00:13:58,105 --> 00:14:01,575
People are living in brownstones
that are worth $20 million
371
00:14:01,675 --> 00:14:03,510
because their great-grandparents
bought it for, like,
372
00:14:03,610 --> 00:14:05,646
three chickens.
That's money now.
373
00:14:05,746 --> 00:14:07,114
Right?
You can use that as leverage.
374
00:14:07,214 --> 00:14:08,649
You can get student loans,
you can buy other things.
375
00:14:08,749 --> 00:14:10,184
That's money, and it shows you
376
00:14:10,284 --> 00:14:12,319
how powerful
generational wealth is.
377
00:14:12,419 --> 00:14:15,389
If it is taken away from you, it
can cripple your family forever.
378
00:14:15,489 --> 00:14:17,157
It's like how anything
379
00:14:17,257 --> 00:14:19,826
that happened generations ago
can affect you today.
380
00:14:19,927 --> 00:14:21,428
Like, if your great-grandfather
381
00:14:21,528 --> 00:14:24,097
spent, like,
your entire family's savings
382
00:14:24,198 --> 00:14:28,135
and bought Coca-Cola stock back
in 1920, you're set for life.
383
00:14:28,235 --> 00:14:31,405
But if your great-grandfather
bought RC Cola stock
384
00:14:31,505 --> 00:14:33,607
back in the 1920s,
well, that's probably why
385
00:14:33,707 --> 00:14:36,710
you're working two jobs,
you know?
386
00:14:36,810 --> 00:14:39,479
And it's... Like, we talk
so much about systemic problems,
387
00:14:39,580 --> 00:14:42,449
but generational wealth
is a systemic solution.
388
00:14:42,549 --> 00:14:44,484
So people don't see.
389
00:14:44,585 --> 00:14:47,788
-(applause and cheering)
-You want this to happen.
390
00:14:47,888 --> 00:14:50,224
You want society...
391
00:14:50,324 --> 00:14:52,659
You want society
to give everyone a chance
392
00:14:52,759 --> 00:14:54,995
to build on generations
of success
393
00:14:55,095 --> 00:14:58,699
so that eventually, families
of all races can come together
394
00:14:58,799 --> 00:15:01,168
to avoid paying estate tax
together.
395
00:15:01,268 --> 00:15:03,036
-(laughter) -It's powerful.
It's inspirational.
396
00:15:03,136 --> 00:15:04,505
All right, that's it
for the headlines,
397
00:15:04,605 --> 00:15:07,074
but before we go
to a quick break,
398
00:15:07,174 --> 00:15:08,876
let's check in on the stock
market with our finance expert,
399
00:15:09,042 --> 00:15:10,878
-Michael Kosta, everybody!
-(cheers and applause)
400
00:15:11,044 --> 00:15:12,546
Thank you. Thank you.
401
00:15:12,646 --> 00:15:15,849
Good to see you, Michael.
402
00:15:15,949 --> 00:15:17,351
I know...
I know it's been crazy.
403
00:15:17,451 --> 00:15:18,852
What is happening
in the market today, Michael?
404
00:15:18,952 --> 00:15:21,154
Well, you know,
I am crushing the market.
405
00:15:21,255 --> 00:15:22,623
I mean, I am, seriously.
406
00:15:22,723 --> 00:15:25,259
Even when I lose money,
I make money, all right? So...
407
00:15:25,359 --> 00:15:28,095
And I got a hot tip for you,
and I got a hot tip for you.
408
00:15:28,195 --> 00:15:30,097
All right? So, pay attention.
Uh, look,
409
00:15:30,197 --> 00:15:33,333
-this is the last day of
second-quarter trading. -Yeah.
410
00:15:33,433 --> 00:15:35,736
And this is a bad quarter, okay?
411
00:15:35,836 --> 00:15:37,437
I haven't seen a quarter
this bad
412
00:15:37,538 --> 00:15:40,707
since my dog swallowed
a quarter, okay?
413
00:15:40,807 --> 00:15:42,609
And I was at the bodega,
414
00:15:42,709 --> 00:15:45,245
I was 25 cents short
for a bag of chips
415
00:15:45,345 --> 00:15:48,916
so I just had to wait for him
to shit it out, okay?
416
00:15:49,082 --> 00:15:51,618
What can I say?
I love Cool Ranch Doritos, okay?
417
00:15:51,718 --> 00:15:53,987
-(scattered applause)
-But, Trevor, look, look, look.
418
00:15:54,087 --> 00:15:56,823
Thanks for clapping at that.
Look, this...
419
00:15:56,924 --> 00:15:58,325
This is a brutal chart.
420
00:15:58,425 --> 00:16:00,360
I mean, this looks like
the flight pattern
421
00:16:00,460 --> 00:16:02,763
of three pigeons
on ayahuasca, okay?
422
00:16:02,863 --> 00:16:07,467
Now, nobody got hit harder
than Bed Bath & Beyond, okay?
423
00:16:07,568 --> 00:16:09,436
Take a look at this chart
right here.
424
00:16:09,536 --> 00:16:12,439
This. This looks like one of
their deflating air mattresses
425
00:16:12,539 --> 00:16:14,274
that they sell.
426
00:16:14,374 --> 00:16:15,876
I mean,
it starts out pretty good.
427
00:16:16,043 --> 00:16:19,746
Then you sit on it the first
time, and shh. You know?
428
00:16:19,847 --> 00:16:21,448
The problem
with Bed Bath & Beyond is
429
00:16:21,548 --> 00:16:23,951
they didn't adjust
their business model.
430
00:16:24,051 --> 00:16:25,853
They say
they're a home goods store.
431
00:16:25,953 --> 00:16:28,956
Nobody can afford to buy
a home anymore. Am I right?
432
00:16:29,056 --> 00:16:30,958
-(applause and cheering)
-You know? Yeah.
433
00:16:31,058 --> 00:16:33,694
Now.
434
00:16:33,794 --> 00:16:36,797
Oh, that story about the Black
family getting their beach back.
435
00:16:36,897 --> 00:16:39,099
-Yeah, that's an amazing story.
-I love that story.
436
00:16:39,199 --> 00:16:40,534
I mean, that is...
437
00:16:40,634 --> 00:16:43,103
-As a white man,
I support that story. -Yeah?
438
00:16:43,203 --> 00:16:45,172
I'm serious.
They were there first.
439
00:16:45,272 --> 00:16:47,207
They-they owned it, you know?
440
00:16:47,307 --> 00:16:49,276
Now, it does bring up a question
that I have
441
00:16:49,376 --> 00:16:51,745
for the Black community, okay?
442
00:16:51,845 --> 00:16:53,914
Does that mean that you're going
to give us back the NBA?
443
00:16:54,081 --> 00:16:57,384
(Noah laughs loudly,
groaning, laughter)
444
00:16:59,853 --> 00:17:04,691
Or... or the NFL, or-or...?
445
00:17:04,791 --> 00:17:06,493
Or The Daily Show?
446
00:17:06,593 --> 00:17:08,495
(groaning,
applause and cheering)
447
00:17:08,595 --> 00:17:11,198
I...
448
00:17:11,298 --> 00:17:13,033
I promised you a hot tip,
all right?
449
00:17:13,133 --> 00:17:15,302
The stock market's trash.
Throw your money in a suitcase.
450
00:17:15,402 --> 00:17:17,371
I'm Michael Kosta.
This is probably my last day.
451
00:17:17,471 --> 00:17:18,906
-Thank you very much.
-Michael Kosta, everybody.
452
00:17:19,039 --> 00:17:20,874
All right, when we come back,
we're going to be discussing
453
00:17:21,041 --> 00:17:22,743
whether transgender athletes
should be allowed
454
00:17:22,843 --> 00:17:24,311
to compete in sports,
so don't go away.
455
00:17:24,411 --> 00:17:25,479
(cheering, applause)
456
00:17:25,579 --> 00:17:27,614
You want this?
You want this?
457
00:17:32,509 --> 00:17:34,544
(cheering, applause)
458
00:17:41,885 --> 00:17:43,486
Welcome back to The Daily Show.
459
00:17:43,586 --> 00:17:46,322
Pride Month
is coming to an end today.
460
00:17:46,423 --> 00:17:47,891
But that doesn't mean
the conversations around
461
00:17:47,991 --> 00:17:50,794
gay and trans rights
need to stop until next year.
462
00:17:50,894 --> 00:17:53,129
So, to keep the conversation
going on our end,
463
00:17:53,229 --> 00:17:54,864
I want to introduce
Veronica Ivy.
464
00:17:54,964 --> 00:17:57,967
She's a transgender rights
activist who is the first
465
00:17:58,068 --> 00:18:01,604
out trans woman to win a track
cycling world championship.
466
00:18:01,704 --> 00:18:03,039
Please welcome Veronica Ivy.
467
00:18:03,139 --> 00:18:05,241
(cheering, applause)
468
00:18:05,341 --> 00:18:07,944
-Welcome to the show.
-Thank you.
469
00:18:08,044 --> 00:18:09,245
So...
470
00:18:09,345 --> 00:18:11,815
I'm gonna say from the top,
because I've noticed
471
00:18:11,915 --> 00:18:13,950
this happens
in every conversation,
472
00:18:14,050 --> 00:18:16,920
every time you bring up
trans rights
473
00:18:17,020 --> 00:18:18,655
or if you have a discussion
and you say "trans,"
474
00:18:18,755 --> 00:18:22,325
people tense up.
I understand why.
475
00:18:22,425 --> 00:18:25,095
We live in a world where, now,
there are people
476
00:18:25,195 --> 00:18:28,064
who are so transphobic that
it makes it almost impossible
477
00:18:28,164 --> 00:18:30,667
for people who aren't
to ask any questions,
478
00:18:30,767 --> 00:18:33,103
to have any conversations,
to have any discourse
479
00:18:33,203 --> 00:18:35,371
that doesn't lump them in
with transphobia.
480
00:18:35,472 --> 00:18:37,741
And so I-I'm really glad that
you're joining us on the show
481
00:18:37,841 --> 00:18:39,275
to talk about this,
because it feels like
482
00:18:39,376 --> 00:18:40,910
one of the biggest issues
in the America...
483
00:18:41,010 --> 00:18:43,747
-Yeah. -and yet no one
can seem to talk about it.
484
00:18:43,847 --> 00:18:45,882
So, let's start
with your journey.
485
00:18:45,982 --> 00:18:49,085
-Um, you've competed at some
of the highest levels, -Yeah.
486
00:18:49,185 --> 00:18:50,920
uh, in sport.
And, you know,
487
00:18:51,020 --> 00:18:52,288
as your hoodie says,
sport is a human right.
488
00:18:52,389 --> 00:18:54,190
-Yeah. That-that
is what you believe in.
489
00:18:54,290 --> 00:18:56,326
-Talk me through--
-(applause)
490
00:18:58,828 --> 00:19:01,097
Talk me through
just a little bit of-of
491
00:19:01,197 --> 00:19:03,400
why you believe fighting
for transgender athletes
492
00:19:03,500 --> 00:19:06,002
to compete in the categories
they'd like to in sport
493
00:19:06,102 --> 00:19:07,704
is so important.
494
00:19:07,804 --> 00:19:10,106
So, it's a fundamental tenet
495
00:19:10,206 --> 00:19:13,276
of, like, Olympic movement
that sport is a human right.
496
00:19:13,376 --> 00:19:14,711
So, in their Olympic Charter,
497
00:19:14,811 --> 00:19:17,147
in their fourth Fundamental
Principle of Olympism,
498
00:19:17,247 --> 00:19:19,249
they say participation in sport
is a human right,
499
00:19:19,349 --> 00:19:21,518
and they mean that
at the competitive level.
500
00:19:21,651 --> 00:19:24,020
So... this issue--
501
00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:26,189
people like to say
that it's a complicated issue,
502
00:19:26,289 --> 00:19:28,658
and I don't actually think it
is. I think it's very simple.
503
00:19:28,758 --> 00:19:32,729
It all boils down to
do you actually think
504
00:19:32,829 --> 00:19:35,932
that trans women and
intersex women are real women
505
00:19:36,032 --> 00:19:38,802
and are really female or not?
506
00:19:38,902 --> 00:19:40,870
And if you do, it's very simple.
507
00:19:40,970 --> 00:19:43,840
Just stop policing
who counts as a real woman,
508
00:19:43,940 --> 00:19:45,909
because this has had
history of racism
509
00:19:46,009 --> 00:19:47,377
built into it over the years.
510
00:19:47,477 --> 00:19:51,247
It's not an accident that
the intersex athletes
511
00:19:51,347 --> 00:19:54,684
who get singled out are women
of color from the global south.
512
00:19:54,784 --> 00:19:57,454
Because who gets singled out
for scrutiny
513
00:19:57,620 --> 00:20:01,257
is based on white women's
conceptions of femininity.
514
00:20:01,357 --> 00:20:03,827
And that's being weaponized
against trans people, too.
515
00:20:03,927 --> 00:20:06,329
So, it's a fear of "protecting"
516
00:20:06,429 --> 00:20:09,499
the fragile, weak,
cis white woman
517
00:20:09,632 --> 00:20:12,068
from the rest of us.
518
00:20:12,168 --> 00:20:14,838
-(applause)
-So-so...
519
00:20:14,938 --> 00:20:18,341
There are many elements to what
you said, which I appreciate.
520
00:20:18,441 --> 00:20:20,510
So, let-let's try
and break them down.
521
00:20:20,643 --> 00:20:24,414
One thing that confuses me,
personally, is...
522
00:20:24,514 --> 00:20:27,984
it-it seems like
we have discussions about
523
00:20:28,084 --> 00:20:31,321
who should participate
in which category and how.
524
00:20:31,421 --> 00:20:35,725
You know, on the face of it,
it seems simple, as you say.
525
00:20:35,825 --> 00:20:37,494
You know, if somebody
identifies as a woman,
526
00:20:37,594 --> 00:20:39,696
if they're transgender,
they can compete against women
527
00:20:39,796 --> 00:20:42,499
who were born biologically,
and then if not, they're not.
528
00:20:42,599 --> 00:20:44,601
But then there are many
who would argue--
529
00:20:44,634 --> 00:20:46,469
who are not transphobes--
there are many who-who,
530
00:20:46,603 --> 00:20:48,938
born biologically women,
who'll say,
531
00:20:49,038 --> 00:20:51,674
"But you have an unnatural
advantage over me,
532
00:20:51,775 --> 00:20:54,677
and that
makes the sport unfair."
533
00:20:54,778 --> 00:20:55,979
How do-how do you
respond to that?
534
00:20:56,079 --> 00:20:57,881
Yeah, there's lots of ways
you can respond to that.
535
00:20:57,981 --> 00:21:00,383
So, the first is
the-the very language
536
00:21:00,483 --> 00:21:03,086
of you were born
537
00:21:03,186 --> 00:21:05,021
and I'm not biological somehow.
538
00:21:05,121 --> 00:21:06,756
Like, I don't think
I'm a cyborg.
539
00:21:06,856 --> 00:21:08,858
So, like, this idea that, like,
540
00:21:08,958 --> 00:21:10,627
"Oh, you're not
a biological woman."
541
00:21:10,693 --> 00:21:12,695
Well, I am a woman.
That's a fact.
542
00:21:12,796 --> 00:21:15,231
I am female.
So all my identity records,
543
00:21:15,331 --> 00:21:17,067
my racing license,
544
00:21:17,167 --> 00:21:19,202
-my medical records
all say female. -Mm-hmm.
545
00:21:19,302 --> 00:21:21,704
Right? And I'm pretty sure
I'm made of biological stuff.
546
00:21:21,805 --> 00:21:23,640
-So I'm a biological female,
as well. -Mm-hmm.
547
00:21:23,740 --> 00:21:26,309
So, this question
of do trans women
548
00:21:26,409 --> 00:21:29,345
have an advantage
over cis women?
549
00:21:29,446 --> 00:21:32,082
We don't know. Um, in fact,
550
00:21:32,182 --> 00:21:34,751
there's basically no published
research on this question.
551
00:21:34,851 --> 00:21:38,788
However, uh, there's good reason
to think that there isn't.
552
00:21:38,888 --> 00:21:42,625
But I think it's irrelevant
because we allow
553
00:21:42,726 --> 00:21:45,595
all kinds
of competitive advantages
554
00:21:45,628 --> 00:21:47,363
within women's sport.
555
00:21:47,464 --> 00:21:49,699
So, one example
I love to talk about
556
00:21:49,799 --> 00:21:53,703
is the 2016 Rio Olympic
women's high jump final.
557
00:21:53,803 --> 00:21:55,739
First place
was over six-foot-three.
558
00:21:55,839 --> 00:21:57,807
Tenth place was five-foot-five.
559
00:21:57,907 --> 00:21:59,776
So a ten and a half-inch
height difference
560
00:21:59,876 --> 00:22:03,513
between first and tenth
at the Olympics in high jump.
561
00:22:03,613 --> 00:22:05,615
-Right.
-And we call that fair.
562
00:22:05,715 --> 00:22:09,152
-Okay.
-So, the range of body types
563
00:22:09,252 --> 00:22:11,421
within the female category
564
00:22:11,521 --> 00:22:13,289
is way, way bigger
565
00:22:13,390 --> 00:22:16,860
than anything that could be
attributed to trans women.
566
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,229
-Mm-hmm.
-So if there's an advantage--
567
00:22:19,329 --> 00:22:20,764
and I'm not saying
that there is--
568
00:22:20,864 --> 00:22:22,699
for trans women
in women's sport,
569
00:22:22,799 --> 00:22:24,634
it's not an unfair advantage.
570
00:22:24,667 --> 00:22:26,803
But, also,
we've been competing at...
571
00:22:26,903 --> 00:22:29,639
trying to compete at
the highest level for decades.
572
00:22:29,706 --> 00:22:31,374
We've been allowed
to compete for decades,
573
00:22:31,474 --> 00:22:34,677
and no one has won
an elite world championship.
574
00:22:34,778 --> 00:22:37,781
No one has won
an Olympic gold medal.
575
00:22:37,881 --> 00:22:40,183
This Tokyo Olympics
was the first time
576
00:22:40,283 --> 00:22:42,585
a trans woman even qualified
for the Olympics.
577
00:22:42,652 --> 00:22:44,487
-Mm-hmm.
-So, this idea that trans women
578
00:22:44,587 --> 00:22:46,456
are suddenly gonna take over
women's sport
579
00:22:46,589 --> 00:22:49,392
is an irrational fear
of trans women,
580
00:22:49,492 --> 00:22:51,995
which is the dictionary
definition of transphobia.
581
00:22:52,095 --> 00:22:54,597
So, uh, it's interesting
that you say that, you know,
582
00:22:54,631 --> 00:22:56,366
-because...
-(applause)
583
00:22:56,466 --> 00:22:57,934
It's interesting
that you say that
584
00:22:58,034 --> 00:23:00,837
because I think
if-if I were to push back
585
00:23:00,937 --> 00:23:01,971
or, you know, even...
586
00:23:02,072 --> 00:23:03,339
Not even playing
devil's advocate.
587
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,308
Uh, there are a few things
that could be argued.
588
00:23:05,408 --> 00:23:08,311
Number one, you could argue
that although the trans woman
589
00:23:08,411 --> 00:23:10,046
who competed in the Olympics
didn't dominate,
590
00:23:10,146 --> 00:23:12,615
she did beat a field of women
591
00:23:12,649 --> 00:23:14,284
who might have qualified
for that position.
592
00:23:14,384 --> 00:23:16,519
Right? Um, secondly,
593
00:23:16,619 --> 00:23:18,455
when you talk
about the height differences--
594
00:23:18,621 --> 00:23:19,989
I-I agree with this completely--
595
00:23:20,090 --> 00:23:22,959
but there-there are many
who would argue
596
00:23:23,059 --> 00:23:26,863
that we exist in a state where
a lot of the surgeries are new.
597
00:23:26,963 --> 00:23:28,932
A lot of the technology,
just the technology, is new.
598
00:23:29,032 --> 00:23:30,900
Transgenderism is not new.
We know it throughout time.
599
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,068
We've seen it
throughout history.
600
00:23:32,168 --> 00:23:34,003
But there are many
who would say,
601
00:23:34,104 --> 00:23:35,572
"How do we ensure
602
00:23:35,672 --> 00:23:37,741
that we are creating
some sort of standard?"
603
00:23:37,841 --> 00:23:39,576
And the rea... the reason
we talk to this is, you know,
604
00:23:39,642 --> 00:23:41,578
we talk about this is it's the
reason they have to "regulite,"
605
00:23:41,678 --> 00:23:43,446
uh, regulate, uh,
performance-enhancing drugs,
606
00:23:43,580 --> 00:23:45,181
for instance. What is fair?
What can you drink?
607
00:23:45,281 --> 00:23:46,583
What can you not drink?
What can you consume?
608
00:23:46,649 --> 00:23:47,917
What can you not consume?
609
00:23:48,017 --> 00:23:50,854
Um, some would say
610
00:23:50,954 --> 00:23:52,956
if you are born that way,
611
00:23:53,056 --> 00:23:56,259
that's how sport has determined
who goes where.
612
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,795
And then some would say,
no, regardless of who you are,
613
00:23:58,895 --> 00:24:00,063
you should be able to compete.
614
00:24:00,163 --> 00:24:02,065
My question then comes in
615
00:24:02,165 --> 00:24:04,968
from a really, honestly,
a different place.
616
00:24:05,068 --> 00:24:07,303
I look at somebody
like Oscar Pistorius
617
00:24:07,404 --> 00:24:08,438
from South Africa, right?
618
00:24:08,605 --> 00:24:10,039
-He was the double amputee.
-Yep.
619
00:24:10,140 --> 00:24:12,142
And Oscar Pistorius
actually went,
620
00:24:12,242 --> 00:24:15,311
-"Well, I want to compete in
the able-bodied race." -Mm-hmm.
621
00:24:15,412 --> 00:24:17,614
Right? And people were like,
"Well, do you have an advantage?
622
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:18,715
Do you not"?
Et cetera, et cetera.
623
00:24:18,815 --> 00:24:19,949
'Cause of the prosthetics.
624
00:24:20,050 --> 00:24:21,918
But then could there not be
an argument
625
00:24:22,018 --> 00:24:24,821
if there is no advantage in that
626
00:24:24,921 --> 00:24:27,624
that then trans women
should be able to compete
627
00:24:27,690 --> 00:24:29,059
but in the men's races, then?
628
00:24:29,159 --> 00:24:31,428
'Cause they'd still be able
to compete in the sport.
629
00:24:31,561 --> 00:24:33,997
But they're women,
and they're female.
630
00:24:34,097 --> 00:24:36,099
So, like I said,
631
00:24:36,199 --> 00:24:39,569
this boils down to
are trans women really women?
632
00:24:39,636 --> 00:24:41,304
Are they really female?
633
00:24:41,404 --> 00:24:42,906
Because if you think yes,
634
00:24:43,006 --> 00:24:45,241
then we belong competing
with other women.
635
00:24:45,341 --> 00:24:47,610
So it's an extreme indignity
to say,
636
00:24:47,711 --> 00:24:50,580
"I believe you're a woman
except for sport."
637
00:24:50,613 --> 00:24:54,184
Right? So you can't single out
one of the most important facets
638
00:24:54,284 --> 00:24:55,218
of our society.
639
00:24:55,318 --> 00:24:56,820
We are obsessed with sport.
640
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:58,922
Athletes are some
of the most highly praised,
641
00:24:59,022 --> 00:25:00,857
-highly paid people
on the planet. -Definitely.
642
00:25:00,957 --> 00:25:03,593
-Definitely. -So you can't say
that, like, "I believe you
643
00:25:03,626 --> 00:25:06,663
"and I support you, but not
for this one really big thing
644
00:25:06,763 --> 00:25:08,198
that society
really cares about."
645
00:25:08,298 --> 00:25:10,600
Right. And I'm-I'm saying
I get confused
646
00:25:10,700 --> 00:25:13,336
by why we distill it down
into just two things.
647
00:25:13,436 --> 00:25:14,771
I'll tell you why.
648
00:25:14,871 --> 00:25:17,173
As we learn about gender
being a spectrum,
649
00:25:17,273 --> 00:25:19,342
as we learn
that people can identify
650
00:25:19,442 --> 00:25:21,077
in-in a multitude of ways,
651
00:25:21,177 --> 00:25:23,213
we accept the fact
that we don't have to put people
652
00:25:23,313 --> 00:25:25,215
into categories of man or woman.
653
00:25:25,315 --> 00:25:27,751
You know? That's why they say
"protect trans women."
654
00:25:27,851 --> 00:25:29,652
It's like, otherwise,
which women are you protecting?
655
00:25:29,753 --> 00:25:31,721
It's-it's an argument
that doesn't separate
656
00:25:31,821 --> 00:25:33,890
or diminish anybody
but gives more specificity
657
00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:35,291
to what people are saying.
658
00:25:35,392 --> 00:25:37,394
And so when we talk
about these things,
659
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,663
I sometimes get confused by why
we're trying to force the people
660
00:25:40,764 --> 00:25:44,100
into two again when we've been
taught that there isn't a two.
661
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,870
Whereas, a sport like--
let's say boxing, for instance.
662
00:25:46,970 --> 00:25:51,207
-In boxing, people fight across
all weight categories. -Mm-hmm.
663
00:25:51,307 --> 00:25:53,276
They don't just go,
"Men's boxing, women's boxing."
664
00:25:53,376 --> 00:25:56,446
They go, "No, men-- heavyweight,
super heavyweight."
665
00:25:56,579 --> 00:25:58,248
And then they'll be like,
"Middleweight, bantamweight,
666
00:25:58,348 --> 00:25:59,783
flyweight, feather weight."
There's, like,
667
00:25:59,883 --> 00:26:02,185
guys who weigh nothing
punching each other.
668
00:26:02,285 --> 00:26:03,987
And-and I mean this genuinely.
'Cause I've always thought
669
00:26:04,087 --> 00:26:06,256
to myself, it's interesting how,
in boxing, they went, "Well,
670
00:26:06,356 --> 00:26:07,590
"we don't just want
to see guys fighting.
671
00:26:07,690 --> 00:26:08,992
We want to see guys fighting
at different weights."
672
00:26:09,092 --> 00:26:10,260
The UFC does the same thing.
They go,
673
00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:12,228
"Y-You're gonna fight
in your weight class."
674
00:26:12,328 --> 00:26:13,930
Which has-- It seems crazy.
675
00:26:14,030 --> 00:26:16,099
How can you break it down?
And yet it's worked.
676
00:26:16,199 --> 00:26:18,468
And so I wonder
if you've ever considered--
677
00:26:18,601 --> 00:26:19,969
and I'm not saying
it's your job, by the way--
678
00:26:20,070 --> 00:26:21,971
-but if you've ever considered a
wor... -It kind of literally is.
679
00:26:22,072 --> 00:26:23,339
-Oh. Then great.
-(laughter)
680
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:24,741
Have you ever considered a world
681
00:26:24,841 --> 00:26:27,477
where it becomes
more specific then?
682
00:26:27,610 --> 00:26:29,212
You know? The same thing
they did in the Paralympics.
683
00:26:29,312 --> 00:26:30,947
They-they had to find a way
684
00:26:31,047 --> 00:26:34,417
where they classified
how a single amputee
685
00:26:34,551 --> 00:26:36,886
could run against somebody
who's partially blind
686
00:26:36,986 --> 00:26:39,055
or a double amputee and how d--
how do we grade that?
687
00:26:39,155 --> 00:26:41,458
So, do you not think
that we're limiting ourselves
688
00:26:41,558 --> 00:26:43,626
by saying, "Men's sports,
women's sports"
689
00:26:43,727 --> 00:26:45,762
when we now know that there are
so many more genders?
690
00:26:45,862 --> 00:26:48,298
So, I'm really gonna dissatisfy
you right now.
691
00:26:48,398 --> 00:26:49,766
-Um... -Well, you don't know
what I'm looking for though,
692
00:26:49,866 --> 00:26:51,367
-so you can't.
-I do.
693
00:26:51,468 --> 00:26:53,103
I-I know you're looking
for something other
694
00:26:53,203 --> 00:26:54,170
than what I'm gonna say.
695
00:26:54,270 --> 00:26:57,040
And that-that is
a very important question
696
00:26:57,140 --> 00:26:58,942
and a very difficult question,
697
00:26:59,042 --> 00:27:00,910
but it's a separate question.
698
00:27:01,010 --> 00:27:03,046
The question
we're talking about is,
699
00:27:03,146 --> 00:27:06,049
given how sport
is currently structured,
700
00:27:06,149 --> 00:27:07,851
should we include trans women
701
00:27:07,951 --> 00:27:09,986
and intersex women
in women's sport?
702
00:27:10,086 --> 00:27:12,322
And my answer to that
is a clear yes.
703
00:27:12,422 --> 00:27:14,791
If you want to say,
"Should we revisit
704
00:27:14,891 --> 00:27:17,026
how we structure all of sport?"
705
00:27:17,127 --> 00:27:19,062
I would say,
"Yeah, we should do that."
706
00:27:19,162 --> 00:27:22,031
But if your only reason
for doing that
707
00:27:22,132 --> 00:27:24,934
is because you can't just accept
trans women are women,
708
00:27:25,034 --> 00:27:26,603
that's a problem I got with ya.
709
00:27:26,636 --> 00:27:28,037
-I understand. And I'm not
saying it's... -Not with you
710
00:27:28,138 --> 00:27:29,239
-personally. -No, no,
I hear what you're saying.
711
00:27:29,339 --> 00:27:30,373
No, I com-- I completely--
712
00:27:30,473 --> 00:27:31,775
I completely hear
what you're saying.
713
00:27:31,875 --> 00:27:33,777
So, let me ask you this then.
714
00:27:33,877 --> 00:27:36,379
You know, again,
eliminating fringes,
715
00:27:36,479 --> 00:27:38,314
'cause everything
on the Internet becomes fringe.
716
00:27:38,415 --> 00:27:40,784
Everything becomes a-a fight
and an argument.
717
00:27:40,884 --> 00:27:42,685
If somebody comes to you
in good faith--
718
00:27:42,786 --> 00:27:44,454
and I mean genuinely good faith-
719
00:27:44,554 --> 00:27:46,189
and they say to you,
720
00:27:46,289 --> 00:27:48,024
"You know, Veronica,
721
00:27:48,124 --> 00:27:49,826
"I was born a woman,
raised a woman.
722
00:27:49,926 --> 00:27:54,064
"I-I've suffered or-or lived
and experienced life as a woman.
723
00:27:54,164 --> 00:27:55,231
"This is where I am.
724
00:27:55,331 --> 00:27:56,533
"This is where my body
has gotten me to.
725
00:27:56,633 --> 00:27:57,834
"I've grown as a woman.
726
00:27:57,934 --> 00:27:59,536
"My body's had the testosterone
or estrogen
727
00:27:59,636 --> 00:28:01,071
"that it had
to get me to this point,
728
00:28:01,171 --> 00:28:02,806
"and that's why I am here.
729
00:28:02,906 --> 00:28:05,742
"And I feel like you may
or may not have the advantage,
730
00:28:05,842 --> 00:28:07,243
"but we don't know yet,
731
00:28:07,343 --> 00:28:08,945
"so why can't we wait
to know these things
732
00:28:09,045 --> 00:28:11,715
before you compete against me?"
How would you respond to that?
733
00:28:11,815 --> 00:28:13,516
Because that's not how
human rights work.
734
00:28:13,616 --> 00:28:17,153
So the way human rights work is
that the default is inclusion,
735
00:28:17,253 --> 00:28:20,390
and the burden of proof is on
the people seeking to exclude,
736
00:28:20,490 --> 00:28:22,525
not the people seeking
to include.
737
00:28:22,625 --> 00:28:25,795
(applause and cheering)
738
00:28:25,895 --> 00:28:31,367
So, I want to share something
shocking with everybody.
739
00:28:31,468 --> 00:28:34,771
Uh, it wasn't
until five years ago
740
00:28:34,871 --> 00:28:36,506
that we actually studied
the relationship
741
00:28:36,606 --> 00:28:38,908
between natural testosterone
and performance.
742
00:28:39,008 --> 00:28:41,845
And we found that there's
no relationship whatsoever
743
00:28:41,945 --> 00:28:46,015
between unaltered,
natural, endogenous testosterone
744
00:28:46,116 --> 00:28:47,517
and sport performance.
745
00:28:47,617 --> 00:28:49,753
About point five percent
746
00:28:49,853 --> 00:28:52,021
of elite male
track and field athletes
747
00:28:52,122 --> 00:28:53,757
at the world championship level
748
00:28:53,857 --> 00:28:56,960
are below the women's average
of testosterone,
749
00:28:57,060 --> 00:29:00,764
competing with men
with 80 to 100 times
750
00:29:00,864 --> 00:29:04,467
as much testosterone,
at no competitive disadvantage.
751
00:29:04,634 --> 00:29:07,504
And that fact has not been
picked up
752
00:29:07,637 --> 00:29:09,139
by the broader media landscape.
753
00:29:09,239 --> 00:29:10,640
So, when you say,
754
00:29:10,740 --> 00:29:13,309
I'm a woman, and I have
this much testosterone,
755
00:29:13,410 --> 00:29:15,912
well, first, there's
a huge range within women.
756
00:29:16,012 --> 00:29:19,682
-Definitely.
-Into the male range.
757
00:29:19,783 --> 00:29:22,018
And there is no relationship
758
00:29:22,118 --> 00:29:23,686
between her having
a competitive advantage
759
00:29:23,787 --> 00:29:25,955
over women
with lower testosterone.
760
00:29:26,056 --> 00:29:30,960
So there are elite cis men
with low testosterone,
761
00:29:31,061 --> 00:29:34,597
-lower than a given woman,
who's outcompeting her. -Mm-hmm.
762
00:29:34,697 --> 00:29:38,868
So our bodies and biology
is not this simple.
763
00:29:38,968 --> 00:29:40,970
We thought it was, and it isn't.
764
00:29:41,071 --> 00:29:43,139
So we know
that when you add testosterone
765
00:29:43,239 --> 00:29:45,742
to your natural levels,
like doping,
766
00:29:45,842 --> 00:29:47,844
you tend to get bigger,
stronger, faster.
767
00:29:47,944 --> 00:29:50,480
We also know that when you drop
your testosterone levels,
768
00:29:50,613 --> 00:29:51,948
like trans women tend to do...
769
00:29:52,048 --> 00:29:53,650
-Mm-hmm.
-you tend to get slower.
770
00:29:53,750 --> 00:29:56,619
But what your natural level is
has no relationship
771
00:29:56,653 --> 00:29:58,254
to your sport performance.
772
00:29:58,354 --> 00:30:01,091
And we've been singling out
that factor--
773
00:30:01,191 --> 00:30:04,627
testosterone--
against the scientific evidence.
774
00:30:04,661 --> 00:30:06,629
But I'm a little confused--
and forgive me
775
00:30:06,663 --> 00:30:08,298
if I'm slow to understand this.
776
00:30:08,398 --> 00:30:10,734
You just said, the natural level
doesn't give you an advantage
777
00:30:10,834 --> 00:30:12,268
or disadvantage, but you said,
778
00:30:12,368 --> 00:30:14,637
if people do have an addition
or a subtraction of it,
779
00:30:14,738 --> 00:30:16,840
then it does give you
a disadvantage or an advantage.
780
00:30:16,940 --> 00:30:18,842
Well, it affects things.
781
00:30:18,942 --> 00:30:22,045
So, for example, like, my body
doesn't produce testosterone,
782
00:30:22,145 --> 00:30:25,181
and it hasn't for a decade,
but I switched sports
783
00:30:25,281 --> 00:30:29,652
-from a road cycling event
to a track power event. -Mm-hmm.
784
00:30:29,686 --> 00:30:31,054
And I switched training.
785
00:30:31,154 --> 00:30:33,423
And I put on 25 pounds
of muscle,
786
00:30:33,590 --> 00:30:37,494
and I went from being able
to squat 170 to 375.
787
00:30:37,594 --> 00:30:42,065
So, I don't produce any
testosterone, and I squat a lot.
788
00:30:42,165 --> 00:30:45,034
-And that's just because
I changed training. -Mm-hmm.
789
00:30:45,135 --> 00:30:47,637
So it's not so simple as, "Okay,
790
00:30:47,737 --> 00:30:50,473
if you drop your testosterone,
you will get weaker."
791
00:30:50,607 --> 00:30:52,008
Because if you change
your training,
792
00:30:52,108 --> 00:30:54,611
your diet,
your rest and recovery,
793
00:30:54,644 --> 00:30:56,679
your sport,
your performance can change.
794
00:30:56,780 --> 00:30:59,115
Your body will change.
It seems like,
795
00:30:59,215 --> 00:31:01,217
we're always going
to end up in a cul-de-sac,
796
00:31:01,317 --> 00:31:03,353
because many people use it
as a cudgel,
797
00:31:03,453 --> 00:31:05,121
I've realized, to scare people.
798
00:31:05,221 --> 00:31:06,689
"Oh, the transgenders
are coming for you.
799
00:31:06,790 --> 00:31:08,024
"Your bathrooms, your sports
800
00:31:08,124 --> 00:31:09,526
-your everything."
-Oh, we are. -(laughter)
801
00:31:09,626 --> 00:31:11,895
-(applause)
-Be careful what you say.
802
00:31:11,995 --> 00:31:14,130
Um...
803
00:31:14,230 --> 00:31:17,734
but-but it feels like there are
many discussions to be had.
804
00:31:17,834 --> 00:31:19,903
It feels like, as you said,
you know, the research,
805
00:31:20,003 --> 00:31:21,471
the science,
everything hasn't caught up.
806
00:31:21,638 --> 00:31:23,106
But I appreciate you
for coming on the show
807
00:31:23,206 --> 00:31:24,441
and discussing this with us.
808
00:31:24,541 --> 00:31:25,809
Thank you so much
for joining me.
809
00:31:25,909 --> 00:31:27,510
(applause and cheering)
810
00:31:27,644 --> 00:31:29,079
All right, we're going
to take a quick break,
811
00:31:29,179 --> 00:31:30,880
but we'll be right back
with one of the stars
812
00:31:30,980 --> 00:31:33,850
of Obi-Wan Kenobi,
Moses Ingram, right after this.
813
00:31:33,950 --> 00:31:35,985
(cheering, applause)
814
00:31:40,857 --> 00:31:42,892
(cheering)
815
00:31:45,862 --> 00:31:48,664
Welcome back to The Daily Show.
My next guest
816
00:31:48,765 --> 00:31:51,634
is an Emmy-nominated actor
you know
817
00:31:51,734 --> 00:31:53,202
from the hit show
Queen's Gambit.
818
00:31:53,302 --> 00:31:55,805
She is now part of the legendary
Star Wars franchise,
819
00:31:55,905 --> 00:32:00,109
starring in the Disney+
miniseries Obi-Wan Kenobi.
820
00:32:00,209 --> 00:32:02,745
I just spoke with Lord Vader.
821
00:32:03,746 --> 00:32:07,150
You spoke to him yourself?
822
00:32:07,250 --> 00:32:09,919
He asked me to lead the hunt.
823
00:32:10,019 --> 00:32:13,156
Unless you feel I should
follow your orders instead.
824
00:32:13,256 --> 00:32:16,225
Send out the probes.
825
00:32:16,325 --> 00:32:18,261
Do it now.
826
00:32:18,361 --> 00:32:20,363
Please welcome Moses Ingram.
827
00:32:20,463 --> 00:32:22,498
-♪ ♪
-(cheering, applause)
828
00:32:32,375 --> 00:32:34,777
-Do I sit or you sit first?
Okay. -Please, please.
829
00:32:36,579 --> 00:32:37,980
Moses Ingram, welcome
830
00:32:38,081 --> 00:32:39,348
-to The Daily Show.
-I feel so official. Thank you.
831
00:32:39,449 --> 00:32:42,351
You're going through
an amazing, amazing period.
832
00:32:42,452 --> 00:32:45,955
-Queen's Gambit,
now Obi-Wan Kenobi. -Yeah.
833
00:32:45,988 --> 00:32:49,158
You-you have one of the most
interesting IMDb pages,
834
00:32:49,258 --> 00:32:53,162
-because you graduated in 2019.
-I did.
835
00:32:53,262 --> 00:32:56,232
-And then it's just been
hit, hit, hit. -Yeah.
836
00:32:56,332 --> 00:32:58,601
-It's crazy.
-What's the secret?
837
00:32:58,701 --> 00:33:00,336
I don't know. I don't think
there is a secret.
838
00:33:00,436 --> 00:33:02,638
-But there are still bad days.
-Okay.
839
00:33:02,739 --> 00:33:06,042
Like, like, early on,
I had this really bad audition.
840
00:33:06,142 --> 00:33:08,644
And I tried to put myself
into my trunk.
841
00:33:08,745 --> 00:33:10,246
Do you ever have, like,
bad days, where you're,
842
00:33:10,346 --> 00:33:12,482
-like, trying-- -Where you
put yourself into your trunk?
843
00:33:12,582 --> 00:33:13,983
Yeah. Well, no, not days where
844
00:33:14,083 --> 00:33:15,685
-you put yourself into your
trunk, but you just -Okay, okay.
845
00:33:15,785 --> 00:33:17,653
need to know where everything
is. Like, you need a really
846
00:33:17,754 --> 00:33:20,823
-small space. -I've heard
people talk about this.
847
00:33:20,990 --> 00:33:23,793
But I've nev-- So, I, uh,
once I was out with a friend--
848
00:33:23,893 --> 00:33:25,595
we're in a park
-for a very long time. -Yeah.
849
00:33:25,695 --> 00:33:28,765
And then he said, "I-I--
Can we go back to the hotel?
850
00:33:28,865 --> 00:33:31,000
-I would like to lie
in a bathtub." -Exactly.
851
00:33:31,033 --> 00:33:32,335
I was like, "You want
to take a bath?" And he said,
852
00:33:32,435 --> 00:33:35,071
"No, I just want to be in
a small space." And I was like,
853
00:33:35,171 --> 00:33:38,007
"Oh, this is the craziest thing
I've ever heard."
854
00:33:38,074 --> 00:33:39,842
But now I'll tell him
that I met someone else...
855
00:33:39,942 --> 00:33:41,677
The trunk of my car.
Yeah, I tried.
856
00:33:41,778 --> 00:33:43,045
Do you close it or do...
857
00:33:43,146 --> 00:33:45,648
Well, so it's a-- it was
a hatchback at the time.
858
00:33:45,748 --> 00:33:48,351
-Okay. -And so, regular cars,
you can, like, pull the latch,
859
00:33:48,451 --> 00:33:50,420
but I ended up looking stupid
because you can't pull
860
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,422
a hatchback,
so you're just, like...
861
00:33:52,522 --> 00:33:55,625
I love the idea that somebody
was watching this happening
862
00:33:55,725 --> 00:33:57,827
and then they call 911
and they go,
863
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,863
"Hi, I think
someone's kidnapping themselves.
864
00:34:00,963 --> 00:34:03,199
I don't know what to do
with this."
865
00:34:03,299 --> 00:34:04,967
You-- But-but it has been--
866
00:34:05,068 --> 00:34:06,969
it really has been
a-an amazing journey.
867
00:34:07,070 --> 00:34:09,605
You know? Everyone who joins
the Star Wars franchise says
868
00:34:09,705 --> 00:34:12,275
-it's just-- it's-it's a galaxy
that is really wild. -Yeah.
869
00:34:12,375 --> 00:34:14,977
Some of the-- some of the-the
most loyal fans, you know?
870
00:34:15,078 --> 00:34:17,046
-You're part
of this giant franchise. -Yeah.
871
00:34:17,146 --> 00:34:19,582
When you knew
you were gonna be a part of it,
872
00:34:19,682 --> 00:34:21,250
you must have been excited.
But then I heard
873
00:34:21,350 --> 00:34:24,020
that you had never watched
any of the Star Wars movies.
874
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:25,688
-(chuckling, gasping)
-No, I hadn't.
875
00:34:25,788 --> 00:34:27,023
-How?
-No, no, I have now.
876
00:34:27,123 --> 00:34:28,991
-I have now. -Yeah, but how?
-(laughter, applause)
877
00:34:29,025 --> 00:34:30,660
I just want to know how.
I'm not even judging you.
878
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:32,395
-I just want to know how.
-I-I don't know.
879
00:34:32,495 --> 00:34:35,231
I guess I just didn't come
from a family who did.
880
00:34:35,331 --> 00:34:37,600
I knew who they were.
I knew Darth Vader.
881
00:34:37,700 --> 00:34:39,936
I knew Obi-Wan. But I didn't...
882
00:34:39,969 --> 00:34:41,504
I didn't see any.
883
00:34:41,604 --> 00:34:43,005
None of them?
884
00:34:43,106 --> 00:34:44,674
-None. -Now that you've seen,
do you have a favorite?
885
00:34:44,774 --> 00:34:46,609
-Like, which one...
-Um...
886
00:34:46,709 --> 00:34:48,811
-probably Revenge of the Sith.
-Okay.
887
00:34:48,945 --> 00:34:50,580
-Okay. I like this. I like this.
-Yeah. It's a good one.
888
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:51,948
-It's a good one. Yeah.
-All right. This is good,
889
00:34:51,981 --> 00:34:52,715
this is good. I thought
you were gonna be like,
890
00:34:52,815 --> 00:34:54,016
"Jar Jar Binks was my favorite."
891
00:34:54,117 --> 00:34:55,952
Then I'll be like,
"We have a-- we have a fight."
892
00:34:55,985 --> 00:34:59,021
Um, I love that you-you've
just joined the franchise
893
00:34:59,122 --> 00:35:00,523
-and already you're making
an impact. -Yeah.
894
00:35:00,623 --> 00:35:03,593
We saw in that clip, and
you see, if you watch the show,
895
00:35:03,693 --> 00:35:06,129
your character's hair
is almost part of her.
896
00:35:06,229 --> 00:35:08,030
-You know? It's-it's like--
It looks futuristic. -Yeah.
897
00:35:08,131 --> 00:35:09,532
NOAH: Obviously, you know,
Black people are like,
898
00:35:09,632 --> 00:35:10,867
"Well, that's hair. We know it."
899
00:35:10,967 --> 00:35:12,468
But it looks cool.
It looks futuristic.
900
00:35:12,568 --> 00:35:14,971
You actually influenced
that hair decision.
901
00:35:15,071 --> 00:35:16,606
Because, originally, the
character was supposed to have,
902
00:35:16,706 --> 00:35:18,408
like, just straight hair, right?
903
00:35:18,508 --> 00:35:20,810
Yeah. O-Originally,
like, there was a wig
904
00:35:20,977 --> 00:35:22,278
and it was, like, doing a thing.
905
00:35:22,378 --> 00:35:25,214
But it's a real testament
to our director, Deborah Chow,
906
00:35:25,314 --> 00:35:27,216
who really welcomed me
into the process
907
00:35:27,316 --> 00:35:29,018
-of making her who she would be.
-Mm-hmm.
908
00:35:29,118 --> 00:35:30,686
Um, and hair
was really important to me.
909
00:35:30,787 --> 00:35:32,989
Like, if a kid wanted
to be me for Halloween,
910
00:35:33,055 --> 00:35:36,993
it would be weird to me
if they had to wear a wig
911
00:35:37,060 --> 00:35:39,529
because I wore a wig,
when I have hair like them.
912
00:35:39,629 --> 00:35:42,365
-You know? -Right, right.
And so you got the hair done.
913
00:35:42,465 --> 00:35:44,600
-(applause and cheering)
-I love that. -Yeah. Thanks.
914
00:35:44,700 --> 00:35:48,504
I like that. You, uh...
915
00:35:48,604 --> 00:35:51,040
You may not have watched
the movies, but I feel like
916
00:35:51,140 --> 00:35:52,475
you fight
like you've watched the movies.
917
00:35:52,575 --> 00:35:56,112
We've got a clip here
of you doing the lightsabers.
918
00:35:56,212 --> 00:35:58,147
-♪ ♪
-(groaning)
919
00:35:58,247 --> 00:35:59,515
-Wow.
-NOAH: This is like a...
920
00:36:03,286 --> 00:36:04,954
-I won't tell you
how it ends. -Wow.
921
00:36:05,021 --> 00:36:06,589
-(applause and cheering)
-That's crazy.
922
00:36:06,689 --> 00:36:09,692
I can't tell you
more than that.
923
00:36:09,792 --> 00:36:11,761
This is something
I've always wanted to know
924
00:36:11,861 --> 00:36:13,996
-from somebody in the
Star Wars universe. -Mm-hmm.
925
00:36:14,097 --> 00:36:17,166
-'Cause they put the sound
effects in afterwards. -Mm-hmm.
926
00:36:17,266 --> 00:36:19,535
So when you're fighting with,
do you make the sound?
927
00:36:19,635 --> 00:36:20,970
-Cause I make the sound.
-(laughter)
928
00:36:21,037 --> 00:36:22,271
No, I can't do it without...
929
00:36:22,371 --> 00:36:24,807
Like, I'll going
"Woo, woo, woo, woo."
930
00:36:24,974 --> 00:36:27,543
Do you... do you...? Does
somebody do it for you guys?
931
00:36:27,643 --> 00:36:29,345
Yeah, I make the sound,
but actually,
932
00:36:29,445 --> 00:36:31,180
in rehearsal now,
they have these really cool ones
933
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:32,715
that make the sound
when you swing it.
934
00:36:32,815 --> 00:36:34,050
-Now ways.
-They do.
935
00:36:34,150 --> 00:36:35,985
It's on Amazon.
You can get it on Amazon.
936
00:36:36,085 --> 00:36:37,520
-I can get it on Amazon?
-Yes.
937
00:36:37,620 --> 00:36:39,522
-I can buy a lightsaber that
makes the sounds? -Yes, you can.
938
00:36:39,622 --> 00:36:41,324
Like, actually? It mustn't do it
when I'm not swinging.
939
00:36:41,424 --> 00:36:43,159
-Then I'll look stupid.
-No, no. I mean...
940
00:36:43,259 --> 00:36:44,927
-Like, "Woo, woo, woo.
-It's sensitive, though.
941
00:36:45,027 --> 00:36:47,463
-So you don't want to just,
like, and then... -Woo. Okay.
942
00:36:47,563 --> 00:36:48,931
...if you don't mean to.
943
00:36:48,998 --> 00:36:51,501
-Okay, don't "woo"
if you don't mean to. -Exactly.
944
00:36:51,601 --> 00:36:53,236
How long do you have to train
for those fight scenes?
945
00:36:53,336 --> 00:36:56,205
Oh, we trained
for about four months,
946
00:36:56,305 --> 00:36:58,374
nine in total if you count
while we were shooting,
947
00:36:58,474 --> 00:36:59,709
So it was a...
it was a process.
948
00:36:59,809 --> 00:37:03,579
So if you got into a fight
in the street,
949
00:37:03,679 --> 00:37:06,215
and there was, like,
a lightsaberish type object,
950
00:37:06,315 --> 00:37:09,452
-you'd kick some ass.
-I think I'd do okay.
951
00:37:09,552 --> 00:37:11,954
(laughter,
applause and cheering)
952
00:37:12,021 --> 00:37:14,157
I'll tell you, Moses, you are
amazing. Thank you so much
953
00:37:14,257 --> 00:37:16,559
-for being on the show.
Congratulations... -Thank you.
954
00:37:16,659 --> 00:37:20,196
on Star Wars,
Queen's Gambit.
955
00:37:20,296 --> 00:37:22,999
All episodes of Obi-Wan Kenobi
are available on Disney+.
956
00:37:23,099 --> 00:37:25,068
Moses Ingram, everybody!
We're gonna take a quick break,
957
00:37:25,168 --> 00:37:27,203
but we'll be right back
after this.
958
00:37:27,303 --> 00:37:29,338
(applause and cheering)
959
00:37:34,755 --> 00:37:36,790
(cheers and applause)
960
00:37:38,759 --> 00:37:40,827
All right, everybody, well,
that's our show for tonight.
961
00:37:40,927 --> 00:37:42,529
Thank you so much for tuning in.
962
00:37:42,629 --> 00:37:46,099
Before we go, before we go,
if you or someone you know
963
00:37:46,199 --> 00:37:48,068
needs help
accessing abortion care,
964
00:37:48,168 --> 00:37:50,637
please go to AbortionFinder.org,
965
00:37:50,737 --> 00:37:53,707
or call the National Abortion
Hotline at the number below.
966
00:37:53,807 --> 00:37:55,342
You still have options.
967
00:37:55,442 --> 00:37:57,144
Until next time,
stay safe out there.
968
00:37:57,244 --> 00:38:01,348
And remember, if somebody hands
you a suitcase full of cash,
969
00:38:01,448 --> 00:38:03,483
take that shit and run.
970
00:38:03,583 --> 00:38:05,819
Now here it is--
Your Moment of Zen.
971
00:38:05,919 --> 00:38:07,921
I grew up doing mafia cases
here in the city.
972
00:38:08,021 --> 00:38:09,589
I used to do mafia cases, okay?
973
00:38:09,690 --> 00:38:11,558
When I used
to do Italian mafia cases...
974
00:38:11,658 --> 00:38:13,760
I did mafia cases.
I used to do mafia cases.
975
00:38:13,860 --> 00:38:15,362
Like, I used to do mafia cases.
976
00:38:15,462 --> 00:38:18,632
I used to prosecute
mafia bosses, real mafia bosses.
977
00:38:18,732 --> 00:38:21,268
Shut the (bleep) up!