♪ ♪
ANNOUNCER: Coming to you from New York City,
the only city in America, it's The Daily Show.
Tonight:
the EPA can't EPA no more.
Veronica Ivy.
And Moses Ingram.
This is The Daily Show with Trevor Noah.
-♪ ♪ -(cheering, applause)
What's going on, everybody. Welcome to The Daily Show.
I'm Trevor Noah. Thank you so much for tuning in.
Thank you for coming out in person.
This is it. Look at you. Look at you. Look at you. Take a seat.
Let's do it, everyone. Thanks for being here.
We have got a jam-packed show for you tonight.
Prince Charles is balling out of control.
Reparations are finally here for one Black family.
And the Supreme Court
has learned the error of its ways and vowed to do better.
Nah, I'm just kidding. They're gonna kill us all.
So, let's do this, people.
Let's jump straight into today's headlines.
-♪ ♪ -(cheering, applause)
Okay. Let's kick things off with the Supreme Court--
America's Got Talent but for laws and stuff.
From the moment Amy Coney Barrett was sworn in,
it was only a matter of time before the Supreme Court
started restoring America back to its factory settings.
And in the last few weeks, they decided that
church and state should get a little cozier.
They decided that America's real gun problem
is that there aren't enough of them.
And they decided that coochies are state property.
And today, as they were
closing out their term, they decided this.
The big news out of the U.S. Supreme Court,
the high court just handing down
their final two decisions of this historic term.
First, a major environmental case,
the court deciding six to three in favor of sharply curbing
the EPA's authority to regulate greenhouse gas emissions.
NEWSMAN: This is a big setback for the Biden administration
for its efforts to restrict global warming.
Wait, wait, what?
The Supreme Court ruled that
the Environmental Protection Agency
does not have the authority
to protect the environment?
So, what is their job now?
Just gonna look at the environment and be like,
"Oh, shit!
"All right, that was a good day at work.
You guys want to get some drinks?"
And by the way, I don't know if it's the same for you,
it's always weird to me how the news in America
frames some of these stories, you know?
Like, "This is a defeat for the Biden administration."
It is a defeat for human life.
It has nothing to do with Biden.
You realize if we don't get it under control,
climate change is gonna wipe us off the planet. All right?
And still, these news anchors are gonna be underwater, like,
(warbling): "Will the rising sea levels hurt the Democrats
and help the Republicans in the midterms?"
(regular voice): And by the way, by the way,
just so you understand, this ruling might not
just be about the carbon emissions.
A lot of experts believe the logic of today's ruling
makes it harder for the government to regulate anything
unless Congress specifically passes a law to do it.
Because, you see, right now, a lot of regulations
are made by agencies, like-like the FDA--
they will handle, like, food, you know?
The CDC with public health.
Uh, the BRB with ignoring text messages. And...
and I know these agencies aren't perfect-- don't get me wrong.
But could you imagine
if Congress had to approve,
like, vaccines?
Imagine if you had to wait for them.
It would have never happened.
We'd still all be locked in our houses
clapping out of our windows
because Congress couldn't
convince Marjorie Taylor Greene that needles
weren't actually a space alien conspiracy.
Then where did they come from?
The one thing that's clear is that
from environmental regulations to abortion to guns
to school prayer to voter rights, this is
one of the most radical Supreme Courts
in American history.
And by the way, people agree on that
from across the political spectrum.
You know? Rachel Maddow is like, "This is so radical."
And Sean Hannity is like, This is so radical! (whoops)"
And they're also imposing their power on a country
that, for the most part, for the most part,
isn't on board with any of it. Right?
Which is why many liberals are now calling for some
major reforms, like adding more seats to the court
or imposing term limits
or setting up a trap for Brett Kavanaugh.
You never know. It might work.
But let's move on.
Let's move on from the people handing down the judgments
to the people receiving them.
This week, we saw
two major sex trafficking cases come to an end.
One was with R. Kelly, R & B legend
and guy we wished had stayed trapped in a closet,
and the other was Ghislaine Maxwell,
windowless van in human form.
And the good news is... the good news is
they're gonna have a long time
to think about what they've done.
Grammy-winning singer and songwriter R. Kelly
has been sentenced to 30 years in prison
for racketeering and sex trafficking.
Kelly was convicted of running a criminal enterprise
that recruited women and young girls for sex.
20 years behind bars
for convicted sex trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell.
The 60-year-old was found guilty
of conspiring with the late financier
and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein
to sexually abuse and traffic young girls.
Yeah, that's right. R. Kelly is getting 30 years in prison,
and Ghislaine Maxwell is getting 20.
And once again, we see that women
are only earning two-thirds of what men get.
(laughter and applause)
Shame on you, America. Shame on you.
She did all that work,
and Jeffrey Epstein, a man, still got all the credit.
Not to mention, she gets sentenced for 20 years
but, Jeffrey Epstein, he was in prison
for, what, a few weeks? Huh?
And then Hillary got him out? Huh?
(audience groaning)
You know, what's crazy about this,
what's crazy about this thing is how everyone has
a conspiracy theory about Jeffrey Epstein
or who's gonna come for Ghislaine Maxwell.
Everyone. But what I've noticed is
it depends on what people's politics is.
Right? Some people, "It's gonna be Donald Trump."
"It's gonna be Hillary that'll kill her."
"It's gonna be the royal family.
Illuminati."
You know what I was thinking? Wouldn't it be funny
if everyone was right?
Like, what if all these powerful people were involved,
and then, like, they all bump into each other
on the way to Ghislaine Maxwell's cell.
You know? They just get there, and it's like,
"Oh, my God, Crooked Hillary.
"What are you doing here?
"Oh, were you also... So embarrassing.
"I was gonna... Oh, and the queen, as well.
What are you doing, Queen? It's an honor."
She's like, "I'm just here to protect my embarrassing son.
You know what that's like, Donald."
"Eric is not my son. He's not my son.
Don't say that, Queenie."
(cheering and applause)
So, Ghislaine's "sentos"-- sentenced.
R. Kelly's sentenced. And I'll tell you what.
Whichever prison R. Kelly is going to
is getting a major upgrade.
Say what you want, that dude is gonna dominate
the prison talent show.
Yeah. I'm sorry. The guy who won last year?
Nobody gives a shit about your juggling act now.
In fact, whichever prison R. Kelly goes to,
they better jack up the security,
'cause once R. Kelly sings,
I don't care how much you hate him.
Nobody can stop. No one can stop themselves from dancing.
Yeah, he'll start singing "Step in the Name of Love,"
and the guards are gonna be like...
♪ Step, step, side ♪
"Somebody stop him!"
♪ Round and round ♪
"No!"
♪ Separate and bring it back ♪
♪ Now let me see you do. ♪
(cheering and applause)
Nobody can stop.
By the way, I wish they would have given us that song
and taken R. Kelly with it. Like, the song is so...
They should've just said the song...
The song did nothing. You-you...
Could've adopted the song like a child.
"I'll look after this song."
(laughter)
But anyway, yeah.
Justice has been served.
And let this be a lesson to other prominent sex traffickers.
The law will catch up with you.
After letting you totally get away with it
for, like, 25 years.
You watch out.
You watch out. Doesn't matter.
(cheering and applause)
R. Kelly, Ghislaine Maxwell,
Jeffrey Epstein and the prince and...
Oh, and speaking of the royal family,
this week, this week,
we found out that Prince Charles,
the queen's slightly less embarrassing son,
has a very unusual way of funding his charities.
Royal sources say tonight that Prince Charles
will no longer personally handle
large cash donations for his charities.
NEWSWOMAN: The prince came under fire
over reports he'd been handed a cash donation
totaling three million euros,
some of it stuffed into a suitcase
from a former Qatari prime minister
several years ago.
NEWSWOMAN 2: Clarence House,
which is where Prince Charles lives,
says the money was all charitable donations.
Clarence House says it followed the correct processes
regarding those donations.
Royal officials say they dispute
many of the details in that report.
Yeah. So, in case you're a little bit lost,
it turns out after an investigation,
they found that Prince Charles had received suitcases
full of cash from a Qatari, all right?
And he was like, "This is for my charity"
and now says, "I-I realize this was wrong
and I will now no longer do it."
But I...
I love how they say
Prince Charles will no longer accept suitcases full of cash,
like he just realized this was a shady thing to do.
He's like, "All right, all right, no cash in a suitcase.
"From now on, it's just bags of cocaine, okay?
"What? No, not that? Okay, come on!
"I can't do anything? Come on!
-Come on!" -(cheering and applause)
How you gonna act like this is the first time you figured tha--
Like, I don't care what it's for--
suitcase full of cash
is always shady.
If your grandmother gives you five dollars for your birthday,
but she slips it to you in a suitcase...
...your grandmother's up to some shit.
'Cause they say this was for Prince Charles' charity.
My only question is, what kind of charity is it
that needs to be paid in all cash?
Huh?
What, has it got its headquarters in a strip club?
Huh?
Like, "This money will do a lot of help,
"uh, against poverty.
"Uh, in fact, here comes Poverty right now.
"Here you go, Poverty.
"Shake that ass, girl. Shake it.
Shake it, Poverty. Shake it."
(cheering and applause)
And, you know, this is one of those things that shows you
the difference between normal people
and really powerful people.
Right? Doesn't matter if it's Prince Charles
or American politicians,
African presidents.
Right? They just get to say,
"We made an error in judgment
"and so we're gonna use this money
"to spend some time in St. Tropez thinking
"about what we've done.
We're so sorry."
But as a regular person,
if the government finds you with a suitcase full of cash
from anywhere,
anywhere,
there's no apologizing.
Probably gonna end up with a front row seat
to one of those R. Kelly prison concerts.
That's where you'll be.
♪ Side to side, step... ♪
(cheering and applause)
Don't play around.
Okay, finally,
let's move on, let's move on
to a good story about people getting tons of money.
Now, many people may or may not know this,
but there was a time in America
where Black people had their rights
and property taken away from them.
And it was a period known as
all of human history.
A-And that may seem as a shock for many of you to hear,
especially if you go to school in Florida,
but it is true.
And, unfortunately, most Black people who lost their land
have had no way to find justice.
But after nearly 100 years,
one family in Manhattan Beach, California,
is finally getting a little of what they deserve.
NEWSMAN: A prime Southern California beachfront property
is being returned to its rightful and original owners
more than 100 years after officials
actually took this land from a Black family.
L.A. County leaders voted to give it back to the descendants.
The property was originally bought in 1912.
The original owners turned it into a resort for Black families
since they were barred from many of the beaches.
White neighbors soon targeted that property
with racist threats and harassment.
The city eventually seized the property in 1929,
claiming eminent domain.
Well, now the county is going to lease the land back
to the current heirs and then give them the option to sell it
for themselves down the road.
NEWSWOMAN: The Bruce family originally bought that land
for just over $1,200.
Now it's worth about $20 million.
-Yeah. -(cheering and applause)
That's right. That is amazing.
That is amazing.
Long time coming, too.
The government is giving these people back their land.
Although that's just proof that climate change is real.
Yeah. All of a sudden, the government is like,
"You know what? The oceanfront property can go back
"to the Black people. Here, take it, take it.
Take it, take it." You're like, "Why?"
"Eh, don't worry, don't worry. Take it."
No, no, no, but, for real, for real, this is great news.
It's great news for that family, great news for justice.
And it's especially exciting
because now there's a Black beach.
Yeah. Yeah, 'cause I've seen white beaches.
They've got people surfing, playing volleyball,
sunbathing, you know.
But this is gonna be a Black beach.
And you know what that's gonna be like.
It's gonna have people surfing, playing volleyball,
sunba-- What did you think I was gonna say, huh?
You thought it was gonna be different 'cause they're Black?
-You're racist! -(cheering and applause)
Every one of you who thought something, you're racist!
What, you thought a Black beach was gonna have drive-bys?
Huh? And people yelling at the movie screen?
Educate yourself!
I like to ray-- lay racism traps just to see who comes out.
Anyway... (laughs)
This is the thing, this is the thing
people don't seem to realize, right, with the story.
The property is now worth $20 million.
Right? It was bought for $1,200 back in, like, the 1920s.
And that's what people don't get
is how Black Americans have been held back.
Right? People always say...
-(applause) -People always say, "Oh, come on.
"Can't we move on in this country?
That was a long time ago." Yeah, exactly.
And in that time,
Black Americans could have built wealth.
-(applause and cheering) -That's what the whole point is.
It's time.
You see this all over America.
All over the United States, you see this.
I mean, look at New York.
People are living in brownstones that are worth $20 million
because their great-grandparents bought it for, like,
three chickens. That's money now.
Right? You can use that as leverage.
You can get student loans, you can buy other things.
That's money, and it shows you
how powerful generational wealth is.
If it is taken away from you, it can cripple your family forever.
It's like how anything
that happened generations ago can affect you today.
Like, if your great-grandfather
spent, like, your entire family's savings
and bought Coca-Cola stock back in 1920, you're set for life.
But if your great-grandfather bought RC Cola stock
back in the 1920s, well, that's probably why
you're working two jobs, you know?
And it's... Like, we talk so much about systemic problems,
but generational wealth is a systemic solution.
So people don't see.
-(applause and cheering) -You want this to happen.
You want society...
You want society to give everyone a chance
to build on generations of success
so that eventually, families of all races can come together
to avoid paying estate tax together.
-(laughter) -It's powerful. It's inspirational.
All right, that's it for the headlines,
but before we go to a quick break,
let's check in on the stock market with our finance expert,
-Michael Kosta, everybody! -(cheers and applause)
Thank you. Thank you.
Good to see you, Michael.
I know... I know it's been crazy.
What is happening in the market today, Michael?
Well, you know, I am crushing the market.
I mean, I am, seriously.
Even when I lose money, I make money, all right? So...
And I got a hot tip for you, and I got a hot tip for you.
All right? So, pay attention. Uh, look,
-this is the last day of second-quarter trading. -Yeah.
And this is a bad quarter, okay?
I haven't seen a quarter this bad
since my dog swallowed a quarter, okay?
And I was at the bodega,
I was 25 cents short for a bag of chips
so I just had to wait for him to shit it out, okay?
What can I say? I love Cool Ranch Doritos, okay?
-(scattered applause) -But, Trevor, look, look, look.
Thanks for clapping at that. Look, this...
This is a brutal chart.
I mean, this looks like the flight pattern
of three pigeons on ayahuasca, okay?
Now, nobody got hit harder than Bed Bath & Beyond, okay?
Take a look at this chart right here.
This. This looks like one of their deflating air mattresses
that they sell.
I mean, it starts out pretty good.
Then you sit on it the first time, and shh. You know?
The problem with Bed Bath & Beyond is
they didn't adjust their business model.
They say they're a home goods store.
Nobody can afford to buy a home anymore. Am I right?
-(applause and cheering) -You know? Yeah.
Now.
Oh, that story about the Black family getting their beach back.
-Yeah, that's an amazing story. -I love that story.
I mean, that is...
-As a white man, I support that story. -Yeah?
I'm serious. They were there first.
They-they owned it, you know?
Now, it does bring up a question that I have
for the Black community, okay?
Does that mean that you're going to give us back the NBA?
(Noah laughs loudly, groaning, laughter)
Or... or the NFL, or-or...?
Or The Daily Show?
(groaning, applause and cheering)
I...
I promised you a hot tip, all right?
The stock market's trash. Throw your money in a suitcase.
I'm Michael Kosta. This is probably my last day.
-Thank you very much. -Michael Kosta, everybody.
All right, when we come back, we're going to be discussing
whether transgender athletes should be allowed
to compete in sports, so don't go away.
(cheering, applause)
You want this? You want this?
(cheering, applause)
Welcome back to The Daily Show.
Pride Month is coming to an end today.
But that doesn't mean the conversations around
gay and trans rights need to stop until next year.
So, to keep the conversation going on our end,
I want to introduce Veronica Ivy.
She's a transgender rights activist who is the first
out trans woman to win a track cycling world championship.
Please welcome Veronica Ivy.
(cheering, applause)
-Welcome to the show. -Thank you.
So...
I'm gonna say from the top, because I've noticed
this happens in every conversation,
every time you bring up trans rights
or if you have a discussion and you say "trans,"
people tense up. I understand why.
We live in a world where, now, there are people
who are so transphobic that it makes it almost impossible
for people who aren't to ask any questions,
to have any conversations, to have any discourse
that doesn't lump them in with transphobia.
And so I-I'm really glad that you're joining us on the show
to talk about this, because it feels like
one of the biggest issues in the America...
-Yeah. -and yet no one can seem to talk about it.
So, let's start with your journey.
-Um, you've competed at some of the highest levels, -Yeah.
uh, in sport. And, you know,
as your hoodie says, sport is a human right.
-Yeah. That-that is what you believe in.
-Talk me through-- -(applause)
Talk me through just a little bit of-of
why you believe fighting for transgender athletes
to compete in the categories they'd like to in sport
is so important.
So, it's a fundamental tenet
of, like, Olympic movement that sport is a human right.
So, in their Olympic Charter,
in their fourth Fundamental Principle of Olympism,
they say participation in sport is a human right,
and they mean that at the competitive level.
So... this issue--
people like to say that it's a complicated issue,
and I don't actually think it is. I think it's very simple.
It all boils down to do you actually think
that trans women and intersex women are real women
and are really female or not?
And if you do, it's very simple.
Just stop policing who counts as a real woman,
because this has had history of racism
built into it over the years.
It's not an accident that the intersex athletes
who get singled out are women of color from the global south.
Because who gets singled out for scrutiny
is based on white women's conceptions of femininity.
And that's being weaponized against trans people, too.
So, it's a fear of "protecting"
the fragile, weak, cis white woman
from the rest of us.
-(applause) -So-so...
There are many elements to what you said, which I appreciate.
So, let-let's try and break them down.
One thing that confuses me, personally, is...
it-it seems like we have discussions about
who should participate in which category and how.
You know, on the face of it, it seems simple, as you say.
You know, if somebody identifies as a woman,
if they're transgender, they can compete against women
who were born biologically, and then if not, they're not.
But then there are many who would argue--
who are not transphobes-- there are many who-who,
born biologically women, who'll say,
"But you have an unnatural advantage over me,
and that makes the sport unfair."
How do-how do you respond to that?
Yeah, there's lots of ways you can respond to that.
So, the first is the-the very language
of you were born
and I'm not biological somehow.
Like, I don't think I'm a cyborg.
So, like, this idea that, like,
"Oh, you're not a biological woman."
Well, I am a woman. That's a fact.
I am female. So all my identity records,
my racing license,
-my medical records all say female. -Mm-hmm.
Right? And I'm pretty sure I'm made of biological stuff.
-So I'm a biological female, as well. -Mm-hmm.
So, this question of do trans women
have an advantage over cis women?
We don't know. Um, in fact,
there's basically no published research on this question.
However, uh, there's good reason to think that there isn't.
But I think it's irrelevant because we allow
all kinds of competitive advantages
within women's sport.
So, one example I love to talk about
is the 2016 Rio Olympic women's high jump final.
First place was over six-foot-three.
Tenth place was five-foot-five.
So a ten and a half-inch height difference
between first and tenth at the Olympics in high jump.
-Right. -And we call that fair.
-Okay. -So, the range of body types
within the female category
is way, way bigger
than anything that could be attributed to trans women.
-Mm-hmm. -So if there's an advantage--
and I'm not saying that there is--
for trans women in women's sport,
it's not an unfair advantage.
But, also, we've been competing at...
trying to compete at the highest level for decades.
We've been allowed to compete for decades,
and no one has won an elite world championship.
No one has won an Olympic gold medal.
This Tokyo Olympics was the first time
a trans woman even qualified for the Olympics.
-Mm-hmm. -So, this idea that trans women
are suddenly gonna take over women's sport
is an irrational fear of trans women,
which is the dictionary definition of transphobia.
So, uh, it's interesting that you say that, you know,
-because... -(applause)
It's interesting that you say that
because I think if-if I were to push back
or, you know, even...
Not even playing devil's advocate.
Uh, there are a few things that could be argued.
Number one, you could argue that although the trans woman
who competed in the Olympics didn't dominate,
she did beat a field of women
who might have qualified for that position.
Right? Um, secondly,
when you talk about the height differences--
I-I agree with this completely--
but there-there are many who would argue
that we exist in a state where a lot of the surgeries are new.
A lot of the technology, just the technology, is new.
Transgenderism is not new. We know it throughout time.
We've seen it throughout history.
But there are many who would say,
"How do we ensure
that we are creating some sort of standard?"
And the rea... the reason we talk to this is, you know,
we talk about this is it's the reason they have to "regulite,"
uh, regulate, uh, performance-enhancing drugs,
for instance. What is fair? What can you drink?
What can you not drink? What can you consume?
What can you not consume?
Um, some would say
if you are born that way,
that's how sport has determined who goes where.
And then some would say, no, regardless of who you are,
you should be able to compete.
My question then comes in
from a really, honestly, a different place.
I look at somebody like Oscar Pistorius
from South Africa, right?
-He was the double amputee. -Yep.
And Oscar Pistorius actually went,
-"Well, I want to compete in the able-bodied race." -Mm-hmm.
Right? And people were like, "Well, do you have an advantage?
Do you not"? Et cetera, et cetera.
'Cause of the prosthetics.
But then could there not be an argument
if there is no advantage in that
that then trans women should be able to compete
but in the men's races, then?
'Cause they'd still be able to compete in the sport.
But they're women, and they're female.
So, like I said,
this boils down to are trans women really women?
Are they really female?
Because if you think yes,
then we belong competing with other women.
So it's an extreme indignity to say,
"I believe you're a woman except for sport."
Right? So you can't single out one of the most important facets
of our society.
We are obsessed with sport.
Athletes are some of the most highly praised,
-highly paid people on the planet. -Definitely.
-Definitely. -So you can't say that, like, "I believe you
"and I support you, but not for this one really big thing
that society really cares about."
Right. And I'm-I'm saying I get confused
by why we distill it down into just two things.
I'll tell you why.
As we learn about gender being a spectrum,
as we learn that people can identify
in-in a multitude of ways,
we accept the fact that we don't have to put people
into categories of man or woman.
You know? That's why they say "protect trans women."
It's like, otherwise, which women are you protecting?
It's-it's an argument that doesn't separate
or diminish anybody but gives more specificity
to what people are saying.
And so when we talk about these things,
I sometimes get confused by why we're trying to force the people
into two again when we've been taught that there isn't a two.
Whereas, a sport like-- let's say boxing, for instance.
-In boxing, people fight across all weight categories. -Mm-hmm.
They don't just go, "Men's boxing, women's boxing."
They go, "No, men-- heavyweight, super heavyweight."
And then they'll be like, "Middleweight, bantamweight,
flyweight, feather weight." There's, like,
guys who weigh nothing punching each other.
And-and I mean this genuinely. 'Cause I've always thought
to myself, it's interesting how, in boxing, they went, "Well,
"we don't just want to see guys fighting.
We want to see guys fighting at different weights."
The UFC does the same thing. They go,
"Y-You're gonna fight in your weight class."
Which has-- It seems crazy.
How can you break it down? And yet it's worked.
And so I wonder if you've ever considered--
and I'm not saying it's your job, by the way--
-but if you've ever considered a wor... -It kind of literally is.
-Oh. Then great. -(laughter)
Have you ever considered a world
where it becomes more specific then?
You know? The same thing they did in the Paralympics.
They-they had to find a way
where they classified how a single amputee
could run against somebody who's partially blind
or a double amputee and how d-- how do we grade that?
So, do you not think that we're limiting ourselves
by saying, "Men's sports, women's sports"
when we now know that there are so many more genders?
So, I'm really gonna dissatisfy you right now.
-Um... -Well, you don't know what I'm looking for though,
-so you can't. -I do.
I-I know you're looking for something other
than what I'm gonna say.
And that-that is a very important question
and a very difficult question,
but it's a separate question.
The question we're talking about is,
given how sport is currently structured,
should we include trans women
and intersex women in women's sport?
And my answer to that is a clear yes.
If you want to say, "Should we revisit
how we structure all of sport?"
I would say, "Yeah, we should do that."
But if your only reason for doing that
is because you can't just accept trans women are women,
that's a problem I got with ya.
-I understand. And I'm not saying it's... -Not with you
-personally. -No, no, I hear what you're saying.
No, I com-- I completely--
I completely hear what you're saying.
So, let me ask you this then.
You know, again, eliminating fringes,
'cause everything on the Internet becomes fringe.
Everything becomes a-a fight and an argument.
If somebody comes to you in good faith--
and I mean genuinely good faith-
and they say to you,
"You know, Veronica,
"I was born a woman, raised a woman.
"I-I've suffered or-or lived and experienced life as a woman.
"This is where I am.
"This is where my body has gotten me to.
"I've grown as a woman.
"My body's had the testosterone or estrogen
"that it had to get me to this point,
"and that's why I am here.
"And I feel like you may or may not have the advantage,
"but we don't know yet,
"so why can't we wait to know these things
before you compete against me?" How would you respond to that?
Because that's not how human rights work.
So the way human rights work is that the default is inclusion,
and the burden of proof is on the people seeking to exclude,
not the people seeking to include.
(applause and cheering)
So, I want to share something shocking with everybody.
Uh, it wasn't until five years ago
that we actually studied the relationship
between natural testosterone and performance.
And we found that there's no relationship whatsoever
between unaltered, natural, endogenous testosterone
and sport performance.
About point five percent
of elite male track and field athletes
at the world championship level
are below the women's average of testosterone,
competing with men with 80 to 100 times
as much testosterone, at no competitive disadvantage.
And that fact has not been picked up
by the broader media landscape.
So, when you say,
I'm a woman, and I have this much testosterone,
well, first, there's a huge range within women.
-Definitely. -Into the male range.
And there is no relationship
between her having a competitive advantage
over women with lower testosterone.
So there are elite cis men with low testosterone,
-lower than a given woman, who's outcompeting her. -Mm-hmm.
So our bodies and biology is not this simple.
We thought it was, and it isn't.
So we know that when you add testosterone
to your natural levels, like doping,
you tend to get bigger, stronger, faster.
We also know that when you drop your testosterone levels,
like trans women tend to do...
-Mm-hmm. -you tend to get slower.
But what your natural level is has no relationship
to your sport performance.
And we've been singling out that factor--
testosterone-- against the scientific evidence.
But I'm a little confused-- and forgive me
if I'm slow to understand this.
You just said, the natural level doesn't give you an advantage
or disadvantage, but you said,
if people do have an addition or a subtraction of it,
then it does give you a disadvantage or an advantage.
Well, it affects things.
So, for example, like, my body doesn't produce testosterone,
and it hasn't for a decade, but I switched sports
-from a road cycling event to a track power event. -Mm-hmm.
And I switched training.
And I put on 25 pounds of muscle,
and I went from being able to squat 170 to 375.
So, I don't produce any testosterone, and I squat a lot.
-And that's just because I changed training. -Mm-hmm.
So it's not so simple as, "Okay,
if you drop your testosterone, you will get weaker."
Because if you change your training,
your diet, your rest and recovery,
your sport, your performance can change.
Your body will change. It seems like,
we're always going to end up in a cul-de-sac,
because many people use it as a cudgel,
I've realized, to scare people.
"Oh, the transgenders are coming for you.
"Your bathrooms, your sports
-your everything." -Oh, we are. -(laughter)
-(applause) -Be careful what you say.
Um...
but-but it feels like there are many discussions to be had.
It feels like, as you said, you know, the research,
the science, everything hasn't caught up.
But I appreciate you for coming on the show
and discussing this with us.
Thank you so much for joining me.
(applause and cheering)
All right, we're going to take a quick break,
but we'll be right back with one of the stars
of Obi-Wan Kenobi, Moses Ingram, right after this.
(cheering, applause)
(cheering)
Welcome back to The Daily Show. My next guest
is an Emmy-nominated actor you know
from the hit show Queen's Gambit.
She is now part of the legendary Star Wars franchise,
starring in the Disney+ miniseries Obi-Wan Kenobi.
I just spoke with Lord Vader.
You spoke to him yourself?
He asked me to lead the hunt.
Unless you feel I should follow your orders instead.
Send out the probes.
Do it now.
Please welcome Moses Ingram.
-♪ ♪ -(cheering, applause)
-Do I sit or you sit first? Okay. -Please, please.
Moses Ingram, welcome
-to The Daily Show. -I feel so official. Thank you.
You're going through an amazing, amazing period.
-Queen's Gambit, now Obi-Wan Kenobi. -Yeah.
You-you have one of the most interesting IMDb pages,
-because you graduated in 2019. -I did.
-And then it's just been hit, hit, hit. -Yeah.
-It's crazy. -What's the secret?
I don't know. I don't think there is a secret.
-But there are still bad days. -Okay.
Like, like, early on, I had this really bad audition.
And I tried to put myself into my trunk.
Do you ever have, like, bad days, where you're,
-like, trying-- -Where you put yourself into your trunk?
Yeah. Well, no, not days where
-you put yourself into your trunk, but you just -Okay, okay.
need to know where everything is. Like, you need a really
-small space. -I've heard people talk about this.
But I've nev-- So, I, uh, once I was out with a friend--
we're in a park -for a very long time. -Yeah.
And then he said, "I-I-- Can we go back to the hotel?
-I would like to lie in a bathtub." -Exactly.
I was like, "You want to take a bath?" And he said,
"No, I just want to be in a small space." And I was like,
"Oh, this is the craziest thing I've ever heard."
But now I'll tell him that I met someone else...
The trunk of my car. Yeah, I tried.
Do you close it or do...
Well, so it's a-- it was a hatchback at the time.
-Okay. -And so, regular cars, you can, like, pull the latch,
but I ended up looking stupid because you can't pull
a hatchback, so you're just, like...
I love the idea that somebody was watching this happening
and then they call 911 and they go,
"Hi, I think someone's kidnapping themselves.
I don't know what to do with this."
You-- But-but it has been--
it really has been a-an amazing journey.
You know? Everyone who joins the Star Wars franchise says
-it's just-- it's-it's a galaxy that is really wild. -Yeah.
Some of the-- some of the-the most loyal fans, you know?
-You're part of this giant franchise. -Yeah.
When you knew you were gonna be a part of it,
you must have been excited. But then I heard
that you had never watched any of the Star Wars movies.
-(chuckling, gasping) -No, I hadn't.
-How? -No, no, I have now.
-I have now. -Yeah, but how? -(laughter, applause)
I just want to know how. I'm not even judging you.
-I just want to know how. -I-I don't know.
I guess I just didn't come from a family who did.
I knew who they were. I knew Darth Vader.
I knew Obi-Wan. But I didn't...
I didn't see any.
None of them?
-None. -Now that you've seen, do you have a favorite?
-Like, which one... -Um...
-probably Revenge of the Sith. -Okay.
-Okay. I like this. I like this. -Yeah. It's a good one.
-It's a good one. Yeah. -All right. This is good,
this is good. I thought you were gonna be like,
"Jar Jar Binks was my favorite."
Then I'll be like, "We have a-- we have a fight."
Um, I love that you-you've just joined the franchise
-and already you're making an impact. -Yeah.
We saw in that clip, and you see, if you watch the show,
your character's hair is almost part of her.
-You know? It's-it's like-- It looks futuristic. -Yeah.
NOAH: Obviously, you know, Black people are like,
"Well, that's hair. We know it."
But it looks cool. It looks futuristic.
You actually influenced that hair decision.
Because, originally, the character was supposed to have,
like, just straight hair, right?
Yeah. O-Originally, like, there was a wig
and it was, like, doing a thing.
But it's a real testament to our director, Deborah Chow,
who really welcomed me into the process
-of making her who she would be. -Mm-hmm.
Um, and hair was really important to me.
Like, if a kid wanted to be me for Halloween,
it would be weird to me if they had to wear a wig
because I wore a wig, when I have hair like them.
-You know? -Right, right. And so you got the hair done.
-(applause and cheering) -I love that. -Yeah. Thanks.
I like that. You, uh...
You may not have watched the movies, but I feel like
you fight like you've watched the movies.
We've got a clip here of you doing the lightsabers.
-♪ ♪ -(groaning)
-Wow. -NOAH: This is like a...
-I won't tell you how it ends. -Wow.
-(applause and cheering) -That's crazy.
I can't tell you more than that.
This is something I've always wanted to know
-from somebody in the Star Wars universe. -Mm-hmm.
-'Cause they put the sound effects in afterwards. -Mm-hmm.
So when you're fighting with, do you make the sound?
-Cause I make the sound. -(laughter)
No, I can't do it without...
Like, I'll going "Woo, woo, woo, woo."
Do you... do you...? Does somebody do it for you guys?
Yeah, I make the sound, but actually,
in rehearsal now, they have these really cool ones
that make the sound when you swing it.
-Now ways. -They do.
It's on Amazon. You can get it on Amazon.
-I can get it on Amazon? -Yes.
-I can buy a lightsaber that makes the sounds? -Yes, you can.
Like, actually? It mustn't do it when I'm not swinging.
-Then I'll look stupid. -No, no. I mean...
-Like, "Woo, woo, woo. -It's sensitive, though.
-So you don't want to just, like, and then... -Woo. Okay.
...if you don't mean to.
-Okay, don't "woo" if you don't mean to. -Exactly.
How long do you have to train for those fight scenes?
Oh, we trained for about four months,
nine in total if you count while we were shooting,
So it was a... it was a process.
So if you got into a fight in the street,
and there was, like, a lightsaberish type object,
-you'd kick some ass. -I think I'd do okay.
(laughter, applause and cheering)
I'll tell you, Moses, you are amazing. Thank you so much
-for being on the show. Congratulations... -Thank you.
on Star Wars, Queen's Gambit.
All episodes of Obi-Wan Kenobi are available on Disney+.
Moses Ingram, everybody! We're gonna take a quick break,
but we'll be right back after this.
(applause and cheering)
(cheers and applause)
All right, everybody, well, that's our show for tonight.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
Before we go, before we go, if you or someone you know
needs help accessing abortion care,
please go to AbortionFinder.org,
or call the National Abortion Hotline at the number below.
You still have options.
Until next time, stay safe out there.
And remember, if somebody hands you a suitcase full of cash,
take that shit and run.
Now here it is-- Your Moment of Zen.
I grew up doing mafia cases here in the city.
I used to do mafia cases, okay?
When I used to do Italian mafia cases...
I did mafia cases. I used to do mafia cases.
Like, I used to do mafia cases.
I used to prosecute mafia bosses, real mafia bosses.
Shut the (bleep) up!