-♪ ♪ -ANNOUNCER: Coming to you
from New York City, the only city in America,
it's The Daily Show.
Tonight: Kansas saves abortion.
Your student debt can outlive you.
And Ryuji Chua.
This is The Daily Show with Trevor Noah.
-♪ ♪ -(cheering, applause)
What's going on, everybody. Welcome to The Daily Show.
I'm Trevor Noah. Thank you so much for tuning in.
Thank you for coming out in person.
Thank you for being here, everybody.
Oh, I can feel the energy. Take a seat.
Let's do this thing. Let's do it, let's do it.
We have got a jam-packed show for you tonight.
Kansas is now the best state in America.
Student debt is coming for your grandma.
And Beyoncé is making a whole new album.
So, let's do this, people.
Let's jump straight into today's headlines.
-♪ ♪ -(cheering, applause)
Okay. All right.
Before we get into the big stories,
let's catch up on a few other things
going on in the news. First things first.
According to astronomers, the earth
is actually spinning faster than ever before.
And because of that, it recently set the record
for the shortest day ever. Yeah.
June 29th was apparently 1.59 milliseconds shorter
than a normal day.
Yeah.
And that's how you know things are going bad--
even the earth is like, "All right, let's wrap this up,
"let's go, let's go. Let's keep things moving,
Let's keep things going."
1.59 milliseconds faster.
I mean, you do know what this means, right?
We all get to leave work 1.59 milliseconds earlier.
Yeah, baby! I'm gone!
It also gives people a great excuse if they get pulled over.
It's just like, "Sir, you have been drinking?"
"No, the earth is spinning super fast, man.
It's making me dizzy, man."
"Then why aren't we all dizzy?"
"I'm too drunk to answer that question."
Meanwhile, in environmental news, a man in Utah
has been arrested
for accidentally starting
a 60-acre wildfire
while trying to burn a spider with a cigarette lighter.
And, yes, this sounds terrible,
but I bet that spider learned his (bleep) lesson.
You've learned that, spider.
In entertainment news, Brad Pitt wore a skirt
to his latest movie premiere, and when he was asked
why he did it he said,
"We're all going to die, so let's just
have some fun before we get out."
Yeah. And I, uh, I love that.
What an inspirational way to say it's laundry day.
It's also been, like, 200 degrees outside every day.
The question isn't why is Brad Pitt wearing a skirt,
it's why isn't every guy wearing a skirt?
You kidding me? Have you felt how hot is out there?
With the fabric on both sides, everything is cooped up.
You walk outside and you--
You spend five minutes in this weather,
before you know it, you're walking around
with two lightly poached eggs in your pants.
Got to let it breathe.
Oh! Oh. This-- Okay, this is a wild story.
In travel news, Airbnb has announced that
it will no longer allow people to list former slave cabins
as vacation rentals
after one listing caused an uproar online.
And this must be one of those things that,
probably, white people-- I mean--
No, 'cause, as a Black person,
there's no way I'm vacationing in a slave cabin.
I don't care if it's a former slave cabin,
I don't care if it's renovate-- There's no Black person
who's like, "Yeah, this is where I want to spend my vacation."
So, good for Airbnb. I will say this-- if I owned Airbnb,
I wouldn't cancel these listings.
I would say, "Yeah, you can stay there if you want,
but you gonna have to have the real experience."
Yeah.
Just surprise those people. Barge into the cabin
at 6:00 a.m. like, "Here's your basket!
Fill it up! Gonna whip your ass--"
"I just wanted to see what it was like!"
"Well, now you're seeing."
But, anyway, let's move on to some
of the bigger news stories of the day.
First up, yesterday we had another round
of primary elections in America.
And I'm just going to say this.
This country has too many elections, all right?
Yeah, every week it's like, "It's time to vote."
"But we voted last week."
"No, that was the vote
"to vote for who we're voting for this week.
"Then we'll vote on when we'll vote for the next vote.
Vote, vote, votey-vote, vote, vote, vote, vote."
So let's check in on the results of these votes.
(laughs)
In our ongoing coverage of Votedemic 2022.
(applause and cheering)
So, last night was a very good night
for Donald "Jigglypuff" Trump.
In Michigan his candidate defeated
a Republican who voted to impeach him.
In Arizona his candidates won the primaries
for senate and secretary of state.
And in Missouri the Eric he endorsed
beat the other Eric that he endorsed. (laughs)
Yeah, it was the best night for Trump he's had
that didn't end with someone signing an NDA.
And these Arizona races could have national implications
because these Republicans, you have to understand,
the ones who are winning now,
they all believe in crazy conspiracy theories
about Biden stealing the election in 2020.
So if they win the final races,
they could end up in charge of counting the votes in 2024.
I don't know about you, but I know for certain
I do not trust them with that job.
Can you imagine what it'll be like?
All right, another vote, another vote for Trump,
that's a Trump vote.
That's ano-- that's a Trump, yeah, I saw that.
That was Trump. Wh-What you doing there?
That's another-- yeah, that's another...
I'm counting. That's Trump as well.
Yeah, put it in, put-- that's it, Trump again.
What-what was...? Look at that, that person spelled Trump wrong.
He said "B-I-D-E-N." That's not how you spell Trump!
What the...? He spelled it wrong.
That's-- all right, what's the final tally? What's that?
Trump-- one bazillion, Biden-- minus ten.
I think I did a good job.
Don't say I didn't warn you.
(applause)
Now, there is, there is some good news.
Other than the Trump virus spreading
through the Republican Party like Vecna,
last night was actually a really good night
for anyone who believes a woman should have a right to choose
what happens in her own body, and it's all thanks to Kansas.
NEWSWOMAN: In conservative Kansas this morning,
a political earthquake
and a big win for abortion rights supporters.
Kansas voters rejecting an amendment
that would have removed abortion protections
from the state constitution,
in effect keeping access to the procedure there.
The turnout on a 100-degree day in the middle of summer
was 53%, historically high.
They've never seen anything like this.
This is Barack Obama's numbers.
Our state stood up and said no.
We're the first ones to say no, so I'm just-- I'm overjoyed.
Wow. Kansas, amazing.
-Absolutely... -(cheers and applause).
...amazing.
Congratulations, Kansas.
It's moments like these I wish I knew
which one of these states you were.
But either way, congratulations.
No, for real though, for real.
This is a huge pro-choice victory
and it's especially amazing that it happened in Kansas,
a state so red that Trump won it by 14 points.
Yeah. No one expected this.
This was a bigger shock than when Batgirl
found out that her real nemesis is the CEO of Warner Bros.
And this is where you realize...
this is where you realize as well
the antiabortion views of right-wing lawmakers
and some people on the Supreme Court,
they don't mirror what actual Americans want.
-Right? -(applause)
It's not accurate.
And that's a huge problem in this country.
It's like letting the craziest dude in your friend group
plan your bachelor party.
You're gonna be like, "I just wanted to play beer pong.
"How did we end up in a Bangkok prison?
Not cool, Samuel."
Oh, and speaking of earth-shattering news,
Beyoncé is changing her album again.
Yeah. First she took out the word "spaz" from a song
because some people complained that it was ableist, all right,
and now she's removing a sample from one of her other songs
because Kelis complained
that she didn't get any credit from it.
And look, I get what Beyoncé is doing.
It's very nice.
But I also should point out
this could turn into a major disaster.
'Cause you realize now,
depending on when you listened to the album,
you could be hearing completely different songs.
(laughter)
Yeah, it's just going to change.
You don't even know what the thing's going to be.
Like, I heard ♪ You won't break my soul. ♪
Then someone else is like ♪ You won't score a goal. ♪
Someone else is like ♪ Someone check this mole. ♪
You don't know.
Can you imagine the chaos this is going to cause.
(applause)
Yeah, the next time you're at a Beyoncé concert,
Beyoncé's gonna be like, "Everyone sing along."
We're going to be like, "We can't! Which version?"
(yelling)
Oh, and because Beyoncé is now taking requests,
Monica Lewinsky, sent out a tweet
basically saying what about removing her name
in one of Beyoncé's old songs "Partition." Right.
It's a song where Beyoncé sang
"He Monica Lewinsky'd all on my gown."
-(audience groaning) -Yeah.
And I mean, I think we can all see why
Monica wouldn't want that in a song.
(laughter)
And for me personally,
I also think Beyoncé should change it in the song
'cause it's not right.
Technically it should be "He Bill Clinton'd on my gown."
'Cause that's the guy who did all the jizzing.
(applause, whooping)
You got to remember who did the thing.
I'm not saying Beyoncé did anything wrong.
I'm just saying, Beyoncé, you have under understand,
with the way American schools teach history,
your songs might be the only way children learn.
It needs to be accurate, Beyoncé, please.
So whether you agree with it or not,
Beyoncé has made her choice.
And good for her.
In fact, you know what I think?
They should say some artists have to be forced to do it.
Beyoncé was nice. Some artists have to be forced.
Yeah. Like R. Kelly.
-(groaning, chuckling) -Yeah, part of his sentence should be
that he has to go back and redo all of his old songs.
'Cause age is not just a number.
Yeah.
Warn back in the studio.
♪ My mind's telling me no ♪
"And now my body understands why it's a no.
"My body completely understands.
-My body completely understands." -(applause)
Oh, and speaking of people who wish they could go back
and change the past, Alex Jones,
far-right-wing commentator and man who makes Donald Trump
look like a reasonable human being,
is currently on trial
for spreading lies about the Sandy Hook shooting.
Right? Saying that it was all a hoax.
And today in the trial, one of the funniest moments came...
(chuckles) when he found out
that his inept lawyer had screwed up
and sent the prosecution evidence
that proved Alex Jones committed perjury.
MARK BANKSTON: Mr. Jones,
did you know that, 12 days ago,
12 days ago,
your attorneys messed up
and sent me an entire digital copy
of your entire cell phone
with every text message you've sent
for the past two years
and, when informed,
did not take any steps to identify it as privileged
or protect it in any way?
And as of two days ago,
it fell free and clear into my possession,
and that is how I know you lied to me
when you said you didn't have text messages about Sandy Hook.
-Did you know that? -If I was mistaken, I was mistaken.
But you-you got the messages right there.
I mean, I-I'm not a tech guy.
I told you, I gave, in my testimony,
the phone to the lawyers before or whatever.
And-and so you've got my phone, but we didn't give it to you.
No, Mr. Jones.
(coughs loudly)
-(laughing) -(laughter, applause)
Oh, shit, that was funny!
Oh, man.
I like how he was-- he was so shocked,
he started turning into every emoji.
He was like... (grunting)
At one point, he even tried to give himself COVID.
Did you see? It was like... (coughs) "I can't speak.
"You know the disease I said is fake?
Yeah, I got it. I've got it now. I got it."
You know you're in trouble when the truth chokes you up
like you're on an episode of Hot Ones.
You know? With those spicy wings.
Just like... (groaning, coughing)
"I'm sorry, what did I say? Ah-ha-ha."
But you realize, you realize, this moment,
this moment is huge.
Right? Because it shows
that Alex Jones probably committed perjury.
Which means Alex Jones lies about stuff.
-(chuckling) -Yeah.
I know. That's shocking. 'Cause now I'm starting to wonder,
does that mean chemtrails from planes
aren't turning the frogs gay? (gasps)
Was that also a lie?
And, by the way, where did he get that lawyer?
(laughter)
Can we just-- can we just talk about that?
'Cause did you see how the lawyer is just sitting there,
like... (scatting)
I would love to be there for that classic
lawyer-client conversation during recess,
always just standing together.
"So, uh, how do you think it's going?"
It's like, "Well, uh, apart from the fact that I, uh,
"screwed this whole thing up worse
"than any lawyer in history,
"I think we still have a shot!
I think we still have a shot."
All right, that's it for the headlines.
But before we go to a quick break,
let's check in on the stock market
with our very own finance expert,
Michael Kosta, everybody!
(cheering and applause)
Michael, the markets are crazy, man.
-Yeah. -What's happening in the market today?
I'm crushing it, man.
-Uh, I'm crushing it. -That's what you always say.
I'm like Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker
'cause I'm in Crush Hour 2, ladies and gentlemen, all right?
-You always say this, Kosta. -And I got a hot tip for you.
You want to make some money like Kosta makes money?
All right? I got a hot tip for you,
-so pay attention, all right? -Okay. Okay.
what we got here is, the last five months,
the gasoline price... Actually before...
Do you mind? That story about the Airbnb
-slavery story. -Yeah.
You know what I am saying? Like, look,
they shouldn't be renting that out,
but I appreciate them being honest, you know?
Every time I rent an Airbnb,
they're not honest about the pictures.
You said... you said it was a two-bedroom quaint apartment?
I didn't know "quaint" meant "haunted," okay?
-(laughter) -Let's be honest.
Airbnb is just catfish for a house, okay?
Look, I don't want to sleep where slavery happened.
I'd prefer a hotel. I'd rather sleep
where lifeless, middle-aged,
missionary-position sex happened, but...
(laughter)
This is terrible.
I mean, marketing off of slavery? That's not cool.
-Right. -Using slavery to make a buck, exploiting suffering?
That's why I don't use Airbnb.
Instead, Trevor I'm a slave to BargainHotels.Net.
-Book a bargain today. -(laughter)
-What? -Let's get to the chart, okay?
So, Trevor, these are the gas...
Actually, actually, that other story about the Earth spinning,
the Earth spinning so fast.
I'm a financial expert, I'm not a scientist,
but I'm pretty sure this is happening
because of the large population in Asia, okay?
Think about it.
If one part of the Earth is a lot heavier than the other,
-Jesus. -...when the Earth spins...
Okay, spinning, spinning, spinning, gets to Asia.
-Wham! Whip! Spin. -(laughter)
-Gets to Asia, whip. -(applause)
-Think about it. Think about it. -You know what?
You're right. You're not a scientist. Just tell us
-what's happening in the markets, Kosta. -Okay, okay.
This is the price of gasoline over the last five months,
and it's been a wild ride, okay?
I mean, this reminds me of the last time
I took ayahuasca and went on the C Train, okay?
I mean, those Showtime guys--
I thought they were my father, okay?
But, look, here's the good news, all right?
The price of gas is back down.
Now the bad news is that as gasoline gets cheaper,
arson is gonna go up, okay?
It's just so much cheaper to commit arson now.
Even I've been thinking about it more, okay?
Trevor, between us guys, all right,
it leaves no evidence, you get the insurance money,
-and it kills all the spiders. -(laughter)
All right, hot tip? I promised you a hot tip, all right?
Booking a hotel room can feel like a lot of labor.
Ease the burden with BargainHotels.Net.
-Tell 'em Kosta sent you. -Do not tell them Kosta anything.
Michael Kosta, everybody.
(applause and cheering)
I don't even want to know what that website is.
All right, when we come back, we're going to be talking
about how student debt is out of control so don't go away.
(cheering, applause)
Welcome back to The Daily Show.
Let's talk about student debt.
It's as American as milk that isn't milk.
Millions of Americans are college graduates,
which is great. College provides you
job skills, it exposes you to new ideas,
it gives you a friend named Chad who's like a brother.
Even though he spilled bong water all inside your car.
I love you, Chad, but you're a dick.
But because America doesn't properly subsidize
higher education like almost every other
developed nation in the world, the number of Americans
with student debt is higher now than ever before.
And student debt is a lot like an STD.
Yes, you can get it by accident in college,
but then it follows you around for the rest of your life.
And when I say the rest of your life, I mean it.
There is a ticking time bomb
looming over the American economy.
Nearly two trillion dollars in student loans
owed by 50 million borrowers.
And this is not just a problem for younger Americans.
Those over 50 years old have the fastest-growing
student loan debt burden of any age group.
NEWSMAN: 40% of Americans 65 and older are in default.
And Washington will collect, by garnishing
the Social Security of seniors in default.
We met Seraphina Galante
on the campus of San Diego State.
Galante had to pause making payments
four times for various life problems.
But the bigger issue: she got older.
She can only work part time.
Her monthly payment-- $176--
is income-based and doesn't even cover the interest.
This is gonna follow you forever.
This will follow me to my grave.
Yeah. When you picture someone with student debt,
you might think of the cast of Girls,
but you should be thinking
of the cast of Golden Girls.
Because eight million borrowers over 50
hold nearly a quarter of all federal student debt.
(light gasping)
And the craziest thing is, some of them
are even having their Social Security checks
garnished to pay it off.
And, by the way, when they say "garnished,"
it means the money is taken out of the check.
Right? They're not putting a little parsley
on the side of their checks to make it fancy.
This is a terrifying situation to be in.
It's embarrassing. I mean, you heard that woman.
Her loans might follow her to her grave.
That is disgusting.
When you're-- when you're on your deathbed,
you shouldn't be thinking about college loans.
You know? You should be thinking of, like,
a cool deathbed confession
that'll mess with your family when you're gone.
You know? Just be like, "Your real father is..."
(mimics flatlining)
Keep everybody guessing.
(applause)
The point is,
America needs solutions to the student debt crisis.
And it could be canceling student loans.
It could be guaranteeing free education.
You know? It could even be punishing colleges
if their graduates can't get the jobs that pay their loans.
-Yeah. -(cheering)
I think that's actually an interesting idea.
(cheering and applause)
Colleges will be like, "Oh, come on in.
You'll get a job. You'll get a job."
And then what happens if you don't?
If I was a college dean, I would be a lot more concerned
about my students getting jobs and graduating
if, otherwise, I'd have to let them move in with me.
Then people will be committed.
Be like, "Damn it, Chad!
"You spilled bong water all over my foyer!
I love you, but you're a dick."
Whatever the solution is,
America cannot allow people to be so burdened by debt
it follows them to the grave.
Especially because
it would make for a very awkward reading of the will.
Today we'll be reading from the will
of Stanley McCormick,
who died at the age of 89 last month
while having sex on a hot air balloon.
That's how he wanted to go.
Mr. McCormick has left instructions
for the distribution of his estate.
First, his life savings.
All of which go to...
Brent.
-I'm sorry, who? -Brent.
♪ ♪
He's the collection agent
for your dad's student loans.
Sorry for your loss.
So Dad was paying student loans for 60 years?
He just had 15 more years to go.
(clears throat) Poor bastard.
Let's move on to the material assets.
The car has been left to... Brent.
I thought I was getting the Tercel.
The residence located at 110 Pine Lane--
-Brent. -Score!
The family China set
smuggled out of Poland at the dawn of World War II.
-Don't say "Brent." -Brent.
-Come on! -I don't even like China. -Brent,
can we please have that one?
-It's really special to our family. -Don't worry.
This is gonna bring the interest rate on his loan up
-to seven percent. -I'm sorry. It's going up to seven percent?
Student loans are funny. (laughs)
(dish breaking)
-What the...? -The antique watch--
-Brent. -(ticking)
The pipe collection-- Brent.
(coughing)
The beloved banjo-- Brent.
♪ ♪
Skee-Ball tickets-- Brent.
And finally, his grandchildren's drawings.
-Brent. -How are those going to pay down his loans?
I turn this shit into an NFT.
And that covers everything.
-(sighs) -He did not do well in life.
-That's for sure. -I didn't even know he went
-to college. -I didn't...
-He didn't brag about it a lot. -I'm sorry. The car.
-Is this guy...? -So we get nothing?
Didn't you need grandad's stuff to pay off your student's loans?
-Shut up. -BRENT: Can I get a little help here?
I got a heavy load.
All right, stay tuned, because after a break,
we're going to find out why fish might have feelings.
Don't go away.
(applause and cheering)
(applause)
Welcome back to The Daily Show.
My guest tonight is a really interesting young man
by the name of Ryuji Chua. He's an activist and a filmmaker
who makes educational content about animal rights.
He's here to talk about his independent documentary
How Conscious Can a Fish Be?
CHUA: The theory of evolution uncovers that traits
that are better suited to help an animal
survive and reproduce in their environment
will get passed down through generations.
But that's not just limited to physical traits.
Behavioral traits, personality and intelligence
all also play a role in helping an animal
successfully survive and reproduce.
And so, also evolve and develop over time.
The ocean is a harsh environment,
and fish have to solve problems
and deal with strangers every single day.
In other words, it pays off
to be smart down there.
Please welcome Ryuji Chua.
-♪ ♪ -(cheering, applause)
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Welcome.
Welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me.
It's, like, such an honor.
It is-- it's-it's a really interesting conversation
that you are having, not just in this documentary but online.
You know, what-what I love about the world we live in today
is you can see so many interesting people,
so many different points of view,
and it's all because we're connected on social media.
You've built up quite a following as someone
who's a passionate animal rights activist,
and this documentary in particular is one where
some people are shocked, because they go,
"Wait, wait, Ryuji-- Ryuji, you've gone too far."
You're saying that fish can be conscious.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, so, you know, the thing is that growing up,
I didn't think this. Right?
I think, like many people, I grew up to think that
fish were these stupid, unconscious animals
-who have a three-second memory and can't feel pain. -Uh-huh.
And that would be been fine, forgivable,
if I was, like, in 1703.
But the thing is that today there is a mountain of evidence
produced through years of research that suggests
that fish feel, think, and suffer
like dogs, cats, and other animals.
It's interesting that you, that you say that, because, like,
you know, when we, when we think
about the world we're living in today,
there's no denying that, you know,
-we have to change the ways we think about our food. -Mm-hmm.
There's no denying that it's, it's becoming unsustainable.
Uh, it's also terrible in the way that we treat animals,
and, you know, we-we're just trying
-to make the world a better place. -Yeah.
Now, many people will say, "Oh, I-I can't be vegan,
-but I am a vegetarian." -Yeah, sure.
Some people say, "Well, I'm not that, but I'm pescatarian."
-Sure. -"And I can eat fish because I don't like
-how everything else happens." -Sure.
But now you've basically come in
-and you've, you've upended that whole thing. -(laughter)
Because there are many people like,
"Well, I'm good, I eat fish,"
and you're like, "Well, you're not as good as you think."
Well, it-it's not about judging people and saying,
"You're not as good as you think."
-Uh-huh. -It's more about thinking about it
from the animal's perspective.
So, the reason that I'm vegan, for example,
is because I just look at things
from the animal's perspective and I think to myself,
"Would I want to be in their shoes, right?"
-Or in their fins, as it may be. -Okay. (laughs)
And the thing is that, when you look at it that way,
well, the things that we do to...
-Well, I think that we're missing two things. -Yes.
First is the fact that, for a lot of these animals,
we stereotype them in ways where we think that...
-You know, w-we call animals in farms livestock. -Okay.
Right, we almost look at them like a something, not a someone,
when, in fact, all of them-- they can play and have families
and build connections, just like dogs,
cats, and other animals.
And the second thing is, I think people vastly underestimate
the degree to which they suffer in these systems,
um, because obviously the industry is not going to,
you know, kind of broadcast it themselves,
um, and the-the information is accessible,
but it's also uncomfortable to face.
I think a lot of people--
uh, me, myself included for a long time--
just don't know how much these animals suffer
-and how many animals suffer. -Yeah.
It is, it is, it is a difficult thing to, um, I think,
consume or even process because,
y-you know, you grow up eating meat,
you grow up eating whatever diet you grow up.
-Some people don't. -Absolutely. yeah.
But-but then, for instance, you're right, you see
a documentary, you go like, "Wow, that's how
"they treat cows? I-I don't want cows.
"I want, you know, free-range cows,
I want free-range chickens, I-I don't think that's good."
And then you-you see something else and you're like,
"Okay, I-I-I won't do that either."
But then many people would argue, they'd be like,
okay, but fish are in the ocean...
-Yeah, yeah. -...just swimming around.
And so if I eat wild-caught fish,
then why is that a bad thing?
Or-or you're saying it's not good or bad, though.
-Is that what you're arguing? -Yeah, I'm not say...
You're not even trying to moralize it essentially.
You could... No, I wouldn't moralize it.
-But it's not about good or bad. -Uh-huh.
It's just that whether or not me or you
or anyone else thinks this is good or bad,
fishing causes tremendous suffering
to an immeasurable number of fish
and that's the issue to me.
And for me, an issue is an issue
-when there's someone who suffers. -Right.
So I don't care that like... Look, I'm not going sit here
and be like I emotionally feel compelled
to care about fish the same way I care about dogs.
-I didn't grow up around fish. -Uh-huh. Right.
Right? But I grew up around dogs.
And they don't do cool tricks.
Yeah, they don't... Well, some of them do cool tricks.
Ah, I mean, not as cool as a dog but okay.
-Yes. -Yeah, yeah.
But, um... Yeah, so the thing is,
because they suffer and their suffering matters to them,
-that's why I flag it as an issue. -Uh-huh.
But it's interesting that you say suffer.
So let's talk a little bit about that
because I know in the documentary and...
you-you know, you cite the research,
there-there is mounting evidence
that talks about suffering or pain, et cetera.
We know that pain extends far further
-than we thought it ever did. -Sure. Sure.
You know, we learn new things every day.
People, for instance, watched the documentary
about the octopus on Netflix.
People are like, "Ah, the octopus has feelings."
And I'll be like, I don't want to eat octopus anymore,
which is-which is fine.
But-but when we think of it through the lens of suffering,
do you not think sometimes we're imbuing animals
with a level of almost complicated consciousness
that they don't necessarily need because of the circle of life.
So, like, let's say when a lion is-is hunting
and then, you know, it goes and it grabs
like an antelope or whatever,
right, the other antelope are like, "Ah, that sucked,"
and then they just carry on with their lives.
-(laughter) -No, no, I mean this honestly.
I watch them sometimes
and, you know, the antelope thing happens
and the antelope just carry on.
I'm like, wow, I'm a lot more devastated on my couch
than they are, so are they suffering
or do you think we're imbuing them
with the idea of what we think suffering is?
Yeah, I mean, I think the...
It's a complicated conversation definitely, but the fact...
Like the way that we define suffering,
or the way that I would think about suffering,
is an experience that's unpleasant to you.
-Okay. -Right? That's kind of, like, the definition
-of-of suffering. -Right.
And, in that sense, I think it's undeniable that animals suffer.
Say, like when an antelope gets eaten.
That's probably a painful experience.
-Yeah. Probably. I'm going to agree. -And there's-there's...
-Yeah. -Yeah. Like, do you know what I mean?
And at the end of the day, like, whether or not,
like, how complicated that suffering is,
I don't think it's that relevant
to whether or not we should care about that suffering.
-Mm-hmm. -I mean, whether or not they're as devastated
as you or I would be in a similar situation
doesn't change the fact that they're being eaten alive.
-I hear what you're saying. -It's horrible. Right?
And similar, for example, with fish,
when they're being grabbed out of the ocean in a huge nets,
well, they die in horrific ways.
They're being crushed under the weight of other fish,
and then they're-- just spill onto this boat.
Oftentimes they're put in this mixture of ice and water.
-They're suffocating the whole time. -Mm-hmm.
And that experience to them might not be so different
to the experience of you or me drowning.
You know? In-in a way, it's a very primal form
of-of suffering that they experience in that moment.
So then let's talk about it through the lens
-of just animals. And help me understand this. -Yeah.
If I said to you then, "Okay,
"Ryuji, what's gonna happen is
"we're gonna get rid of all industrialized farming.
"You know? There will be no boats
"that are catching thousands of fish.
"We're gonna go back to the olden days--
"like, one person, you catch your fish, I catch my fish.
We-we do the whole thing."
Would you be happy with that for yourself?
Or are you saying, no, you wouldn't even engage
with the eating of a living thing?
Sure, ag-again, for me, it's not about me being happy.
-Okay. -Right? So, for me,
it's about doing the best thing possible for the animals,
looking at it from their perspective.
-But what about us? -(chuckling)
No, and I don't-- I don't even mean this, like, selfishly.
-No, no, no, no, no. I... -No, no, I mean... (stammers)
And the reason I say this-- what about us?--
is because I go, "Sometimes, as humans,
you know, I feel like we forget that we're also animals."
-Yeah, sure. Yeah. -Okay? So we are also animals.
-Mm-hmm. -And then those animals, like--
There's a lot of time where you'll go, like,
"Aw, the animal."
But then the animal will do a thing to you.
Like, let's say you see, like, a bear,
You're like, "Aw, the bear's cute."
Then some people go, "Let me go touch the bear,"
-Then the bear's like... (growls) Right? -(laughs): Yeah.
Then the people are like, "That bear's an asshole."
-Yeah. -Then I'm like, "No, the bear's just a bear.
-It's doing bear things." -Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Are we-- are we not just doing human things in that way?
Like, is-is it-- is it-- Does it need to be moralized
in any way, shape, or-- Should we-- Are we not just meant
to eat the thing because it's-it's food for us?
Yeah, sure. I mean, you could say that it's a human thing,
but, again, whether or not you or me or anyone else
considers this a human thing doesn't change the fact
that an action would cause suffering.
And in my view, if we can prevent suffering
from happening, then why not do it?
-That's fascinating. -You know? Because if I was
-in that position, then I would not want to suffer. -Yeah.
Huh.
"If I was in that position, I would not..."
I-I agree. If I was a fish, I would not want to be caught.
-Yeah. No, yeah. Exactly. -I-I completely agree with you.
They don't try to be caught. They don't want to, like,
-have-have that existence. -Yeah.
So what would you say to somebody
who wants to get into this life?
Because one thing I do appreciate
about you honestly is this. Is, like, oftentimes,
you'll talk to vegans.
And one-- they'll always let you know
that they're vegans without you asking them.
And two-- they will judge people, but you don't judge.
That's something I've really appreciated.
You inform people, you do the research, you talk about it.
But you're not judging. You're not like,
"You're an asshole for doing this." -Yeah, yeah, yeah.
"You're wrong for doing this." You go, "This is why I'm making
the decision, and this is what we should be cognizant of."
So if somebody says to you, "Okay,
"I want to explore getting into this world..." -Yeah.
"...but may not have the nutrition, I may not..."
I mean, look at America. There's people who live in food deserts.
-Absolutely. -There's people who don't have access
-to the right foods. -Sure. For sure.
How can they even begin the journey
of a more ethical existence when it comes to what they eat?
So I think there are, well, three things really.
The first thing would be to change our view
-on how we see animals. Right? -Okay.
So for me, the big thing that changed becoming a vegan
is that I started seeing all animals
-as a someone, not a something. -Okay.
Previously, I never spent time with cows
or chickens or pigs, but it turns out
that they're just like dogs and cats.
And I think the more we can have that mindset is really good.
The second thing is to get informed
about what we actually do to them.
Because, again, I think that many people vastly underestimate
the amount of suffering that we cause them,
-even in just the legal things that we do to them. -Uh-huh.
A lot of those things are things that would be outrageous
if done to dogs and cats. It would be illegal.
Like, they would get canceled and arrested
if we did this to dogs and cats is what would happen.
-Right? -Right, right.
So I think getting informed on that.
And thirdly, there are so many resources
on how to live a vegan lifestyle,
-in many different shapes and forms. -Mm-hmm.
Like, I think one of the misconceptions is
that being vegan is all about eating, you know,
Beyond Meat and these fancy meat substitutes.
But in fact, you can have a very simple, whole-food,
plant-based lifestyle that is... could be a lot cheaper
-and a lot healthier, as well. -Mm-hmm.
There are many, many ways to go about it,
and so, you can just do research on that
-and find what works for you. -I'll tell you this.
You're fascinating. I've really enjoyed talking to you.
Thank you so much for joining me on the show.
Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
Really, really fun.
How Conscience Can a Fish Be?
Find out by streaming his documentary on YouTube.
We're gonna take a quick break,
but we'll be right back after this.
-Thank you again. -Thank you.
-For real, man. -(applause and cheering)
(applause and cheering)
Well, that's our show for tonight, but before we go,
remember recovery efforts are underway
after record-breaking flood waters
have hit Eastern Kentucky.
We can all help them, and we should.
The Foundation for Appalachian Kentucky is doing all they...
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So, please, if you can, consider supporting them
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Until next time, stay safe out there and remember.
You're not singing the lyrics wrong.
Beyoncé just changed the album.
Now here it is-- Your Moment of Zen.
♪ ♪
-Live television, gang. That's live TV for you. -(laughter)
Excuse me. My son... My kids are here. Live television.
We'll do it live! (bleep) it!
Out of curiosity, what brewery is that?
What-what brew...? Where are you?
What brewery is that?
-Oh, I think we lost Kerry. Yeah. -All right. -Oh, no.
-Yeah. -We were so close to finding that out, too. -Okay.
All right, well, can hear me, Kerry? Can you hear me now?
-Okay, we've lost Kerry. -We've lost Kerry.
-Or Kerry's just drunk. -Or Kerry's drunk.
He's just drunk right now.
He's been doing these hits. Anyway... All right.
-He's back! -He's back! -He's back. Kerry's back.
-He's back. Okay. -Kerry's Back. Kerry's back.
Hey, hey, Kerry, any time...
Are we going see this resolved anytime soon?
♪ ♪