1 00:00:10,477 --> 00:00:18,651 >>> YOU CALLED IT PSYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE. >> IT FELT LIKE CORPORATE TERRORISM BECAUSE WE WERE 2 00:00:18,718 --> 00:00:23,757 TERRORIZED. AND IT WAS VERY CALCULATED. IT WAS VERY VICIOUS. >> WHY WOULD SENIOR MANAGEMENT 3 00:00:23,823 --> 00:00:31,531 AT E-BAY, THE POPULAR SILICON VALLEY E-COMMERCE GIANT, WANT TO, QUOTE, TERRORIZE A COUPLE FROM A TINY TOWN IN 4 00:00:31,598 --> 00:00:41,474 MASSACHUSETTS WHO RAN A WEBSITE OUT OF THEIR HOME? THAT'S OUR STORY, TONIGHT. >>> THROUGH A VAST STRETCH OF 5 00:00:41,541 --> 00:00:51,451 OPEN AND, FOR THE MOMENT, EMPTY GRASSLAND, ALISON FOX IS TAKING US UP A MUDDY TWO-TRACK PATH IN SEARCH OF BUFFALO. 6 00:00:51,518 --> 00:01:00,994 FOX IS THE CEO OF AMERICAN PRAIRIE, WHICH HAS, AS JUST ONE OF MANY AUDACIOUS GOALS, THE RESTORATION OF BISON TO A 7 00:01:01,060 --> 00:01:10,537 LANDSCAPE THEY ONCE RULED. >> OH, THERE THEY ARE. >> LOOK AT THEM. >> OH, LOOK AT THE BABIES. 8 00:01:10,603 --> 00:01:22,782 >>> IN THE DARKEST TIMES AND IN THE MOST DANGEROUS PLACES, JAMES NACHTWEY CAPTURES BEAUTY AND BRUTALITY, MOMENTS OF HATE AND 9 00:01:22,849 --> 00:01:31,424 HEROISM, SENSELESS DESTRUCTION, AND QUIET ACTS OF COMPASSION. >> MOTHERS AND FATHERS ARE MY HEROES, WHAT THEY DO FOR THEIR 10 00:01:31,491 --> 00:01:38,231 CHILDREN, HOW THEY PROTECT THEM, BEING IN PLACES WHERE PEOPLE HAVE NEXT TO NOTHING, AND, YET, ANYTHING THEY HAVE, THEY OFFER 11 00:01:38,298 --> 00:01:46,506 TO A STRANGER. >>> I'M LESLEY STAHL. >> I'M BILL WHITAKER. >> I'M ANDERSON COOPER. 12 00:01:46,573 --> 00:01:51,511 >> I'M SHARYN ALFONSI. >> I'M JON WERTHEIM. >> I'M CECILIA VEGA. >> I'M SCOTT PELLEY. 13 00:01:51,578 --> 00:01:54,314 THOSE STORIES TONIGHT ON "60 MINUTES." 14 00:01:54,380 --> 00:02:02,388 CAPTIONING FUNDED BY CBS 15 00:02:02,455 --> 00:02:11,865 >>> THE ONLINE AUCTION SITE E-BAY LAUNCHED THE E-COMMERCE REVOLUTION WHEN IT WAS FOUNDED MORE THAN 20 YEARS AGO. 16 00:02:11,931 --> 00:02:17,670 OVER THE DECADES, IT'S DRAWN IN 134 MILLION USERS FROM MOM-AND-POP COLLECTORS ON THE HUNT FOR BARGAINS TO SMALL 17 00:02:17,737 --> 00:02:25,578 BUSINESS OWNERS. IN 2022, USERS SOLD ALMOST $74 BILLION WORTH OF GOODS THROUGH E-BAY. 18 00:02:25,645 --> 00:02:34,020 BUT LAST WINTER BURIED IN AN OTHERWISE DULL ANNUAL FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE, A NOTE ON PAGE 105 HINTED AT A SCANDAL INSIDE THE 19 00:02:34,087 --> 00:02:42,428 SILICON VALLEY GIANT. IT REFERS TO AN INQUIRY FROM THE U.S. ATTORNEY ABOUT THE STALKING AND HARASSMENT OF THE EDITOR AND 20 00:02:42,495 --> 00:02:49,802 PUBLISHER OF AN ONLINE NEWSLETTER AT THE HANDS OF E-BAY EMPLOYEES. IN MARCH WE INTRODUCED YOU TO 21 00:02:49,869 --> 00:02:56,109 THE COUPLE THAT WAS THE TARGET OF THAT STALKING. THEY LOVED E-BAY SO MUCH THEY STARTED A PUBLICATION TO HELP 22 00:02:56,175 --> 00:03:04,584 PEOPLE WHO SELL STUFF ON THE AUCTION SITE, AND THEN, FOUND THEMSELVES THE FOCUS OF A TERROR CAMPAIGN. 23 00:03:04,651 --> 00:03:11,925 >> WE MET INA AND DAVID STEINER IN NATICK, MASSACHUSETTS. A QUAINT BOSTON SUBURB WHERE THE COUPLE HAD ENJOYED A QUIET LIFE 24 00:03:11,991 --> 00:03:18,331 UNTIL THE SUMMER OF 2019. >> YOU CALLED IT PHYSIOLOGICAL WARFARE. >> IT -- IT -- IT FELT LIKE 25 00:03:18,398 --> 00:03:27,740 CORPORATE TERRORISM, BECAUSE WE WERE TERRORIZED. AND IT WAS VERY CALCULATED. IT WAS VERY VICIOUS. 26 00:03:27,807 --> 00:03:34,047 >> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ALSO LEARNED WAS WHAT SADISTIC PLEASURE THESE PEOPLE TOOK IN TERRORIZING US. 27 00:03:34,113 --> 00:03:39,819 >> THE STEINERS HAVE BEEN MARRIED FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS AND WORK TOGETHER, FROM THEIR HOME FOR MORE THAN 20. 28 00:03:39,886 --> 00:03:46,125 THEY PUBLISH A NEWS WEBSITE CALLED E-COMMERCEBYTES. DAVID HANDLES THE BUSINESS SIDE OF THINGS, AND INA DOES THE 29 00:03:46,192 --> 00:03:53,499 REPORTING. >> WHAT DO YOU RECOVER? WHO'S THE AUDIENCE? >> WE COVER INDUSTRY NEWS. 30 00:03:53,566 --> 00:04:00,974 SO WHAT I DO IS I -- I FOLLOW WHAT'S HAPPENING AND HOW IT IMPACTS SELLERS. >> PEOPLE WOULD WRITE TO US. 31 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,644 AND THEY WOULD SAY, "HEY, I'M HAVING A PROBLEM WITH AMAZON." OR, "I'M HAVING A PROBLEM WITH E-BAY." 32 00:04:04,711 --> 00:04:09,916 >> AND WE SAID, "WELL, LET'S PUT UP A SECTION WHERE -- WHERE WE CAN JUST BE A CONDUIT." THAT'S ALL WE EVER WANTED TO BE, 33 00:04:09,983 --> 00:04:14,621 A CONDUIT FOR SELLERS TO TELL THEIR PROBLEMS, TELL THEIR ISSUES, SHARE INFORMATION. >> AND GIVE THEM A VOICE. 34 00:04:14,687 --> 00:04:21,127 >> AND GIVE THEM A VOICE. >> MOST OF THEIR 600,000 READERS ARE SELLERS ON E-BAY, AMAZON AND ETSY. 35 00:04:21,194 --> 00:04:28,835 BUT THE STEINERS SAY E-COMMERCE EXECUTIVES ALSO READ INA'S ARTICLES CLOSELY. >> INDUSTRY OBSERVERS WOULD 36 00:04:28,901 --> 00:04:33,573 CONTACT US WITH QUESTIONS, AS THERE WERE CERTAIN THINGS GOING ON. AND WALL STREET WAS VERY 37 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:38,845 INTERESTED BECAUSE THESE WERE PUBLIC COMPANIES. AND THEY NEEDED TO KNOW. >> TELL ME WHAT HAPPENED WHEN 38 00:04:38,911 --> 00:04:46,185 YOU OPENED YOUR EMAIL ON THE MORNING OF AUGUST 8th. >> WELL, WE WERE GETTING BOMBARDED WITH -- WITH SIGN-UPS 39 00:04:46,252 --> 00:04:54,627 TO CRAZY NEWSLETTERS. >> NEWSLETTERS THE STEINERS NEVER SIGNED UP FOR, SIN CITY FETISH NIGHT, THE SATANIC 40 00:04:54,694 --> 00:05:03,069 TEMPLE, THE COMMUNIST PARTY, AND DOZENS OF OTHERS. >> THEN SOMEBODY STARTED HARASSING US ON TWITTER, THROUGH 41 00:05:03,136 --> 00:05:06,773 DIRECT MESSAGES. >> WHAT WERE YOU SEEING ON TWITTER? >> THREATS. 42 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:13,179 >> IT -- IT WAS BASICALLY, "SHUT UP, OR ELSE." AND IT WAS -- IT WAS AS BLATANT AS THAT. 43 00:05:13,246 --> 00:05:18,918 >> BUT MUCH MORE THREATENING THAN THAT AND SO VULGAR WE CAN'T SHOW YOU MANY OF THE MESSAGES. THREE DAYS LATER, THE STEINERS 44 00:05:18,985 --> 00:05:26,259 GOT A STRANGE CALL. >> SOMEBODY LEFT A VOICEMAIL FOR US, SAYING THEY COULDN'T FULFILL THE ORDER FOR A WET SPECIMEN. 45 00:05:26,325 --> 00:05:30,463 AND DAVID WAS THE ONE WHO CALLED. AND HE SAID, "WHAT IS A WET SPECIMEN?" 46 00:05:30,530 --> 00:05:38,871 AND -- AND IT WAS A PIG FETUS. THAT'S WHEN I REALLY -- MY HEART SANK BECAUSE I THOUGHT, WHO MIGHT BE ANGRY AT SOMETHING I 47 00:05:38,938 --> 00:05:43,609 WROTE? AND I COULDN'T FIGURE IT OUT. I MEAN, WE WERE -- WE WERE DESPERATELY TRYING TO THINK, WHO 48 00:05:43,676 --> 00:05:49,382 COULD IT BE? IS THAT WHEN YOU CALLED THE POLICE? >> EVERY STEP ALONG THE WAY. 49 00:05:49,449 --> 00:05:57,857 >> BUT THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME? >> WE, WE, WE WOULD REPORT IT -- AND WHEN THE POLICE DROVE UP TO THE FRONT DOOR, WE HAD TO PUT 50 00:05:57,924 --> 00:06:07,967 ON, YOU KNOW, A RATIONAL FACE. WE COULDN'T SHOW HOW TERRIFIED WE WERE. >> AFTER THE POLICE OFFICER TOOK 51 00:06:08,034 --> 00:06:13,139 THE REPORT, HE STEPPED OUTSIDE AND SAID, "THERE'S A PACKAGE HERE." SO, HE WAITED. 52 00:06:13,206 --> 00:06:16,309 AND WHEN I OPENED UP THE PACKAGE, IT LOOKED LIKE -- IT LOOKED LIKE FLESH AND HAIR. AND I KIND OF YELLED, OR 53 00:06:16,375 --> 00:06:21,547 SHRIEKED. >> IT WAS A PIG MASK FROM THE HORROR MOVIE "SAW." THE PLOT INVOLVES A PSYCHOPATH 54 00:06:21,614 --> 00:06:29,455 WHO TORTURES HIS VICTIMS, THE LAST THING THEY SEE IS THE MASK. >> I IMAGINE AS THIS IS HAPPENING, YOU'RE NOT ONLY 55 00:06:29,522 --> 00:06:33,659 THINKING, "WHO IS THIS PERSON?" BUT "WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO NEXT?" >> OH. 56 00:06:33,726 --> 00:06:41,100 THAT WAS THE -- THAT WAS THE QUESTION. WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO NEXT? >> OVER THE NEXT WEEK SOMEONE 57 00:06:41,167 --> 00:06:46,339 SENT BOXES OF LIVE COCKROACHES AND SPIDERS TO THE STEINERS. PORNOGRAPHY WAS SENT TO THEIR NEIGHBORS BUT ADDRESSED TO 58 00:06:46,405 --> 00:06:50,042 DAVID. ON SOCIAL MEDIA, THE STEINERS' HOME WAS LISTED AS THE SITE OF YARD SALES AND SEX PARTIES. 59 00:06:50,109 --> 00:06:57,416 AND THEN THIS BOOK ABOUT SURVIVING THE LOSS OF A SPOUSE ADDRESSED TO DAVID, ARRIVED AT THE STEINERS' DOORSTEP. 60 00:06:57,483 --> 00:07:05,358 >> IT WAS A DEATH THREAT. AND TO BE FOLLOWED UP A FEW SHORT DAYS LATER WITH A FUNERAL WREATH, AN EXPENSIVE FUNERAL 61 00:07:05,424 --> 00:07:15,334 WREATH. IT -- IT ONLY CONFIRMED THAT THESE PEOPLE WERE GOING TO HURT OR KILL INA. 62 00:07:15,401 --> 00:07:20,606 >> AND -- >> YOU WERE AFRAID FOR HER LIFE. >> I WAS TERRIFIED I WAS GOING TO LOSE HER. 63 00:07:20,673 --> 00:07:27,446 >> POLICE, AT FIRST, THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE A SMALL-TOWN PRANK. DAVID INSTALLED MORE SECURITY CAMERAS AT THEIR HOME. 64 00:07:27,513 --> 00:07:36,389 BUT FOR THREE WEEKS THE THREATS AND PACKAGES KEPT COMING. >> AS THIS IS GOING ON, WHAT'S IT LIKE TO BE INSIDE YOUR HOUSE? 65 00:07:36,455 --> 00:07:42,161 >> WHEN IT WOULD GET DARK OUT AT NIGHT, THAT'S WHEN I WOULD REALLY BE TERRIFIED. >> YOU GUYS STARTED SLEEPING IN 66 00:07:42,228 --> 00:07:50,069 SEPARATE ROOMS AT ONE POINT? >> WHAT WE -- WHAT WE WANTED TO DO WAS TO MAKE SURE THAT IF SOMEONE DID BREAK IN, THAT AT 67 00:07:50,136 --> 00:07:57,944 LEAST ONE OF US COULD EITHER CALL THE POLICE, OR ESCAPE. >> THE STEINERS WERE AFRAID INSIDE THEIR HOUSE AND AFRAID TO 68 00:07:58,010 --> 00:08:03,816 LEAVE IT AFTER DAVID NOTICED A VAN AND LATER A CAR FOLLOWING HIM. HE WAS TERRIFIED, BUT MANAGED TO 69 00:08:03,883 --> 00:08:10,156 GET A PHOTO OF THE LICENSE PLATE. THAT BROKE OPEN THE CASE. >> I'M A GUY WHO LIKES TO DIG UP 70 00:08:10,223 --> 00:08:15,394 THINGS. I SOMETIMES DON'T GET THE END RESULT, AND THAT'S WHY I RELY ON SMART GUYS LIKE THIS. 71 00:08:15,461 --> 00:08:20,633 >> NATICK DETECTIVE JOHN HASWELL WAS WORKING THE CASE WITH SERGEANT JASON SUTHERLAND. HE RAN THE LICENSE PLATE OF THE 72 00:08:20,700 --> 00:08:25,605 CAR THAT HAD BEEN FOLLOWING DAVID. >> AND IT CAME BACK TO A RENTAL AGENCY. 73 00:08:25,671 --> 00:08:31,711 AND I CONTACTED THE RENTAL AGENCY, AND GOT THE NAME OF THE RENTER. VERONICA ZEA. 74 00:08:31,777 --> 00:08:39,085 I DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE STEINERS AT THIS POINT, OTHER THAN WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH THEM. 75 00:08:39,151 --> 00:08:44,323 SO I -- THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT I CALLED THEM. >> I SAID, "ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE NAME" - THEY WEREN'T. 76 00:08:44,390 --> 00:08:56,702 AND WHILE I WAS SAYING THAT, I THINK MRS. STEINER DID HER OWN LITTLE SEARCH AND SAID, OH, MY GOD, SHE WORKS FOR E-BAY. 77 00:08:56,769 --> 00:09:03,576 >> I -- I -- I DON'T KNOW -- I CAN'T DESCRIBE HOW FLABBERGASTED WE WERE. E-BAY? 78 00:09:03,643 --> 00:09:07,813 I MEAN, WHAT WAS AN E-BAY EMPLOYEE DOING IN A RENTAL VAN FOLLOWING DAVID? DID SHE -- 79 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:12,551 >> IT BLEW OUR MINDS. >> -- SEND ALL THESE THINGS? WAS IT E-BAY THAT DID THIS TO US? 80 00:09:12,618 --> 00:09:17,823 I MEAN, IT WAS INCONCEIVABLE. >> SERGEANT SUTHERLAND TRACKED VERONICA ZEA'S RENTAL CAR TO THE BOSTON RITZ-CARLTON AND CALLED 81 00:09:17,890 --> 00:09:23,095 HER FROM THE LOBBY. >> I FULLY EXPECTED HER TO COME DOWN AND SAY -- HAND ME A BUSINESS CARD -- AND SAY I'M 82 00:09:23,162 --> 00:09:27,833 FROM E-BAY AND WE'RE DOING AN INVESTIGATION AND, YEAH, I DROVE BY THE HOUSE." WE CALLED UP TO THE ROOM, AND 83 00:09:27,900 --> 00:09:33,072 SHE SAID SHE'D BE DOWN AFTER SHE HAD A CONFERENCE CALL. SHE NEVER SHOWED UP. >> ZEA LEFT TOWN WITHOUT TALKING 84 00:09:33,139 --> 00:09:39,378 TO POLICE. BUT DETECTIVE HASWELL HAD BEEN CHASING DOWN ANOTHER LEAD. HE LEARNED THE FUNERAL WREATH 85 00:09:39,445 --> 00:09:45,685 SENT TO THE STEINERS WAS BOUGHT WITH A GIFT CARD FROM A GROCERY STORE IN SILICON VALLEY NOT FAR FROM E-BAY HEADQUARTERS. 86 00:09:45,751 --> 00:09:51,490 >> YEAH. THEY WERE LESS THAN EIGHT MILES AWAY. AND HE WAS ABLE TO GET 87 00:09:51,557 --> 00:09:56,128 PHOTOGRAPHS OF THEM PURCHASING THE GIFT CARDS, AND IT WAS VERONICA ZEA AGAIN. >> THE FBI TOOK OVER. 88 00:09:56,195 --> 00:10:02,001 TEN MONTHS LATER, THE U.S. ATTORNEY IN MASSACHUSETTS ANDREW LELLING ANNOUNCED THE INDICTMENTS OF SIX EMPLOYEES AND 89 00:10:02,068 --> 00:10:09,342 CONTRACTORS FROM E-BAY. >> "THE COMPLAINT ALLEGES THAT THE VICTIMS WERE TARGETED BECAUSE E-BAY EXECUTIVES WERE 90 00:10:09,408 --> 00:10:21,454 UNHAPPY WITH THE COVERAGE OF E-BAY ON THE COUPLES WEBSITE." >> IT DIDN'T TAKE US AN HOUR TO REALIZE THE RAMIFICATIONS OF A 91 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:28,294 PUBLIC COMPANY TRYING TO DESTROY A JOURNALIST, THEY WERE ATTACKING THE FIRST AMENDMENT, FREEDOM OF THE PRESS. 92 00:10:28,361 --> 00:10:37,436 THEY WANTED TO DESTROY INA AND OUR PUBLICATION. >> FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR ANDREW LELLING SAYS THE PLAN TO 93 00:10:37,503 --> 00:10:48,314 TARGET THE STEINERS WAS HATCHED AT E-BAY. >> WHAT WAS UNIQUE ABOUT THIS CASE IS THAT YOU HAD RELATIVELY 94 00:10:48,381 --> 00:10:56,155 SENIOR MANAGEMENT AT A FORTUNE 500 COMPANY WHO THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO LAUNCH WHAT CAN ONLY BE DESCRIBED AS A CAMPAIGN 95 00:10:56,222 --> 00:11:01,560 OF TERROR TARGETING A MIDDLE-AGED COUPLE IN NATICK. >> WHY? >> WELL, THE WHY IS ACTUALLY 96 00:11:01,627 --> 00:11:09,402 HARDER THAN IT SEEMS. >> INVESTIGATORS LEARNED IN APRIL OF 2019, E-BAY'S THEN CEO, DEVIN WENIG SHARED A LINK TO 97 00:11:09,468 --> 00:11:16,742 THIS POST INA HAD WRITTEN ABOUT HIS ANNUAL PAY. E-BAY'S CHIEF COMMUNICATIONS OFFICER, STEVE WYMER, WROTE BACK 98 00:11:16,809 --> 00:11:28,387 "WE ARE GOING TO CRUSH THIS LADY." ABOUT A MONTH LATER, WENIG, THE CEO OF E-BAY, TEXTED "TAKE HER 99 00:11:28,454 --> 00:11:34,860 DOWN." PROSECUTORS SAY STEVE WYMER LATER TEXTED E-BAY SECURITY DIRECTOR JIM BAUGH, "I WANT TO 100 00:11:34,927 --> 00:11:39,598 SEE ASHES, AS LONG AS IT TAKES, WHATEVER IT TAKES." JUST A FEW DAYS LATER, INVESTIGATORS SAY BAUGH SET UP A 101 00:11:39,665 --> 00:11:44,336 MEETING WITH HIS SECURITY STAFF AT E-BAY'S CALIFORNIA HEADQUARTERS, POSTED A MAP OF NATICK ON THE WALL, AND THEN 102 00:11:44,403 --> 00:11:50,643 DISPATCHED A TEAM TO BOSTON. SEVEN PEOPLE WHO WORKED FOR E-BAY'S SAFETY AND SECURITY UNIT, INCLUDING TWO FORMER COPS, 103 00:11:50,709 --> 00:11:58,017 AND A FORMER NANNY, ALL PLEAD GUILTY TO STALKING OR CYBERSTALKING CHARGES. >> SENIOR SECURITY DIRECTOR JIM 104 00:11:58,084 --> 00:12:04,457 BAUGH WAS SENTENCED TO FIVE YEARS IN PRISON. VERONICA ZEA WAS SENTENCED TO A YEAR OF HOME CONFINEMENT AND 105 00:12:04,523 --> 00:12:11,764 PROBATION. >> BUT, TO DATE, E-BAY HAS NOT BEEN CHARGED WITH ANY CRIMES. THE COMPANY SAID IN A STATEMENT 106 00:12:11,831 --> 00:12:18,604 TO "60 MINUTES" THE CONDUCT OF THE FORMER EMPLOYEES WAS WRONG AND IT HAS COOPERATED FULLY WITH THE GOVERNMENT INVESTIGATION. 107 00:12:18,671 --> 00:12:24,910 >> THE PLAN WAS HATCHED IN E-BAY'S HEADQUARTERS, IN A CONFERENCE ROOM. IT WAS PAID FOR, ULTIMATELY, BY 108 00:12:24,977 --> 00:12:32,251 E-BAY. DON'T THEY BEAR ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS? >> THEY MAY. 109 00:12:32,318 --> 00:12:38,557 BUT CASES ARE COMMON WHERE AN EMPLOYEE INSIDE A COMPANY USES COMPANY RESOURCES TO DO WRONG. IN EVERY ONE OF THOSE CASES, 110 00:12:38,624 --> 00:12:43,295 IT'S NOT NECESSARILY TRUE THAT THE COMPANY ITSELF IS RESPONSIBLE. >> AND LELLING SAYS THERE WAS 111 00:12:43,362 --> 00:12:51,170 NOT ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO FILE CRIMINAL CHARGES AGAINST E-BAY'S TOP EXECUTIVES DEVIN WENIG OR STEVE WYMER. 112 00:12:51,237 --> 00:12:56,976 >> BUT WHEN HE SAYS OR TEXTS, "I WANT TO SEE ASHES, WHATEVER IT TAKES,"... >> PEOPLE SAY THINGS LIKE THAT 113 00:12:57,042 --> 00:13:03,883 ALL THE TIME. ESPECIALLY SENIOR PEOPLE IN COMPANIES. IT'S NOT THE SAME AS, "I AM 114 00:13:03,949 --> 00:13:13,359 KNOWINGLY JOINING A CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY TO CYBERSTALK A COUPLE IN NATICK." PEOPLE USE LOOSE TALK LIKE THAT 115 00:13:13,425 --> 00:13:22,301 ALL THE TIME. >> LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING. IF YOU HAVE A DOG THAT IS TRAINED TO ATTACK AND THEN YOU 116 00:13:22,368 --> 00:13:31,243 GIVE THEM THE COMMAND, "TAKE HER DOWN," AREN'T YOU AS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DAMAGE THAT HAPPENS? >> IT'S OBVIOUS THAT IT STARTED 117 00:13:31,310 --> 00:13:37,550 FROM THE TOP. >> JILLISE McDONOUGH AND ROSEMARY SCAPICCHIO ARE REPRESENTING THE STEINERS IN A 118 00:13:37,616 --> 00:13:43,355 CIVIL CASE AGAINST E-BAY, AND ITS FORMER EXECUTIVES. >> IF YOU'RE IN THE C-SUITE, IT'S YOUR JOB TO KNOW WHAT YOUR 119 00:13:43,422 --> 00:13:49,662 EMPLOYEES ARE DOING. HOW DID YOU SIT BACK AND SAY YOU DIDN'T KNOW, ESPECIALLY WHEN GOOD THINGS WERE HAPPENING 120 00:13:49,728 --> 00:13:54,934 AND -- AND, YOU KNOW, THE SHARE PRICES WERE INCREASING? THEY WERE ALL W -- YOU KNOW, PATTING THEMSELVES ON THE BACK. 121 00:13:55,000 --> 00:14:00,206 THEY -- "WE DID THAT, WE DID THAT, WE HAD" -- BUT THEN WHEN SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPENS, THEY TURN AROUND AND SAY, "WE 122 00:14:00,272 --> 00:14:05,511 HAD NO IDEA, WE HAD NO IDEA THIS WAS HAPPENING." >> WE'VE SEEN THESE TEXT MESSAGES FROM WENIG AND FROM 123 00:14:05,578 --> 00:14:10,783 WYMER. I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THEY TURNED OVER ALL THEIR TEXT MESSAGES. 124 00:14:10,849 --> 00:14:15,020 THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN? >> NO. WYMER DELETED HIS TEXT MESSAGES. THERE WAS A NOTICE THAT WENT OUT 125 00:14:15,087 --> 00:14:20,292 TO EVERYONE TO SAY, "THERE'S THIS CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION, PRESERVE THE EVIDENCE." WYMER IMMEDIATELY DELETES 126 00:14:20,359 --> 00:14:24,997 EVERYTHING. THAT'S OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE. IF I DID THAT, I'D BE SITTING IN A JAIL CELL SOMEWHERE RIGHT NOW. 127 00:14:25,064 --> 00:14:31,303 >> THE CURRENT U.S. ATTORNEY HAS SAID THE INVESTIGATION INTO E-BAY IS ONGOING. STEVE WYMER WAS FIRED FOR CAUSE 128 00:14:31,370 --> 00:14:37,076 BY E-BAY, AND NOW RUNS THE BOYS AND GIRLS CLUBS OF SILICON VALLEY. HE HAS SAID HIS TEXTS WERE 129 00:14:37,142 --> 00:14:46,051 MISCHARACTERIZED AND THAT HE LEARNED OF THE EMPLOYEES' CONDUCT ONLY AFTER THE FACT. THE FORMER CEO DEVIN WENIG, SAID 130 00:14:46,118 --> 00:14:51,390 IN A STATEMENT THAT "60 MINUTES" THAT HE WAS APPALLED AT WHAT HAPPENED AND HAD HE BEEN MORE AWARE OF IT AT THE TIME HE WOULD 131 00:14:51,457 --> 00:14:58,097 HAVE STOPPED IT. WENIG RESIGNED FROM E-BAY IN SEPTEMBER OF 2019 WITH A $57 MILLION EXIT PACKAGE. 132 00:15:08,340 --> 00:15:14,013 >>> THE UNITED STATES HAS NATIONAL PARKS DEVOTED TO CANYONS AND DESERTS, GLACIERS AND GEYSERS, EVEN UNDERWATER 133 00:15:14,079 --> 00:15:22,421 CORAL REEFS. 63 NATIONAL PARKS IN ALL. BUT SOMEHOW, WE SKIPPED THE AMERICAN PRAIRIE. 134 00:15:22,488 --> 00:15:28,727 THE GRASSLANDS THAT ONCE STRETCHED FROM THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER TO THE ROCKIES PLAYED A VITAL ROLE IN THE LIVES OF 135 00:15:28,794 --> 00:15:36,635 NATIVE AMERICANS, WHITE SETTLERS, AND AN ENDLESS VARIETY OF WILDLIFE. THEY INSPIRED EXPLORERS AND 136 00:15:36,702 --> 00:15:43,475 ARTISTS, BUT APPARENTLY NOT PARK-PLANNERS. TWO DECADES AGO, A NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION BEGAN TRYING TO FIX 137 00:15:43,542 --> 00:15:52,418 THAT, NOT WITH A NEW NATIONAL PARK BUT RATHER A HUGE PRIVATELY-OPERATED NATURE RESERVE, A PLACE WHEREAS WE 138 00:15:52,484 --> 00:16:04,063 FIRST REPORTED LAST FALL, BUFFALO CAN ROAM ONCE AGAIN. THROUGH A VAST STRETCH OF OPEN -- AND FOR THE MOMENT 139 00:16:04,129 --> 00:16:12,971 EMPTY -- GRASSLAND, ALISON FOX IS TAKING US UP A MUDDY TWO-TRACK PATH IN SEARCH OF BUFFALO. 140 00:16:13,038 --> 00:16:22,448 >> THIS ROAD IS INCREDIBLE. >> FOX IS THE CEO OF AMERICAN PRAIRIE, WHICH HAS AS JUST ONE OF MANY AUDACIOUS GOALS THE 141 00:16:22,514 --> 00:16:28,754 RESTORATION OF BISON TO A LANDSCAPE THEY ONCE RULED. >> OH, THERE. THERE. 142 00:16:28,821 --> 00:16:34,093 >> OH, THERE THEY ARE. >> LOOK AT THEM. WOW. THERE THEY ARE. 143 00:16:34,159 --> 00:16:39,298 >> OH, LOOK AT THE BABIES. >> LOOK AT THEM. >> WE FOUND PART OF WHAT AMERICAN PRAIRIE CALLS ITS 144 00:16:39,365 --> 00:16:46,638 "CONSERVATION HERD" OF ABOUT 800 BUFFALO. THIS GROUP IS MAINLY MOTHERS WITH NEW CALVES, WHICH ARE A 145 00:16:46,705 --> 00:16:53,479 DISTINCTIVE SHADE OF RED. >> TRYING TO DO A COUNT OF THE BABIES, BUT NOW THEY'VE KIND OF MOVED THE BABIES INTO THE MIDDLE 146 00:16:53,545 --> 00:16:59,284 OF THE GROUP. >> THIS LAND IS LIKE THIS, AS FAR AS THE EYE CAN SEE? >> AS FAR AS THE EYE CAN SEE. 147 00:16:59,351 --> 00:17:07,259 >> THAT'S NOT A BAD DESCRIPTION OF THE SCALE OF AMERICAN PRAIRIE'S AMBITION: TO CREATE THE LARGEST NATURE RESERVE IN 148 00:17:07,326 --> 00:17:15,167 THE CONTIGUOUS UNITED STATES. THE NONPROFIT HAS MORE THAN 50 EMPLOYEES, FROM FUNDRAISERS TO BUFFALO WRANGLERS. 149 00:17:15,234 --> 00:17:23,041 ALISON FOX HAS WORKED THERE FOR 15 YEARS AND HAS BEEN IN CHARGE FOR THE LAST FOUR. >> OVERALL, THE GOAL IS TO HAVE 150 00:17:23,108 --> 00:17:30,416 HOW MANY ACRES IN THIS RESERVE? >> YEAH, THE OVERALL GOAL IS ABOUT 5,000 SQUARE MILES, 3.2 MILLION ACRES OF INTACT 151 00:17:30,482 --> 00:17:37,756 GRASSLANDS. COMPARABLE TO THE SIZE OF THE STATE OF CONNECTICUT AND ALSO COMPARABLE TO GLACIER AND 152 00:17:37,823 --> 00:17:45,631 YELLOWSTONE NATIONAL PARKS COMBINED. >> THAT'S BIG. >> IT IS BIG. 153 00:17:45,697 --> 00:17:49,868 >> THE BIG CHUNK OF LAND IS MOSTLY NORTH OF THE MISSOURI RIVER IN NORTH CENTRAL MONTANA, ONE OF THE MOST REMOTE PARTS OF 154 00:17:49,935 --> 00:17:57,743 THE COUNTRY. IT'S A PATCHWORK OF PRIVATELY OWNED CATTLE RANCHES AND LAND OWNED BY THE GOVERNMENT, 155 00:17:57,810 --> 00:18:07,820 INCLUDING A HUGE EXISTING NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGE NAMED AFTER THE FAMOUS "COWBOY PAINTER" CHARLES M. RUSSELL. 156 00:18:07,886 --> 00:18:17,296 >> AND THAT 1.1 MILLION ACRES SERVES AS THE ANCHOR OF AMERICAN PRAIRIE'S 3.2 MILLION ACRE VISION. 157 00:18:17,362 --> 00:18:22,067 >> AND SO YOU'VE GOT THESE BIG CHUNKS OF FEDERAL LAND. AND YOU'RE BUYING LAND IN BETWEEN TO TRY TO PIECE IT ALL 158 00:18:22,134 --> 00:18:28,907 TOGETHER? >> EXACTLY. >> SO JUST ABOUT EVERY TIME A PRIVATE RANCH COMES UP FOR SALE 159 00:18:28,974 --> 00:18:35,214 INSIDE ITS DESIRED "FOOTPRINT" AMERICAN PRAIRIE TRIES TO BUY IT, TO ADD ANOTHER PIECE TO ITS PUZZLE AND PRESERVE MORE 160 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:42,588 GRASSLAND. >> HOW MANY RANCHES HAVE YOU PURCHASED? >> WE HAVE PURCHASED 34 RANCHES. 161 00:18:42,654 --> 00:18:51,530 >> TO BUY ALL THOSE RANCHES, AMERICAN PRAIRIE HAS RAISED NEARLY $200 MILLION FROM MORE THAN 4,000 DONORS, INCLUDING 162 00:18:51,597 --> 00:18:58,370 WALL STREET FINANCIERS AND TECHNOLOGY MOGULS. IT SAYS IT WILL TAKE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS MORE -- AND DECADES 163 00:18:58,437 --> 00:19:04,743 MORE -- TO COMPLETE THE PATCHWORK. >> SO THIS IS A LONG GAME? >> THIS IS A LONG GAME. 164 00:19:04,810 --> 00:19:12,618 AND IT'S A LONG GAME FOR LAND ACQUISITION. IT'S A PROBABLY EVEN LONGER GAME FOR THE RESTORATION OF HABITS 165 00:19:12,684 --> 00:19:17,890 AND SPECIES. THIS AREA WAS AMERICA'S SERENGETI, TRULY AMERICA'S SERENGETI WITH TENS OF THOUSANDS 166 00:19:17,956 --> 00:19:38,410 OF BISON, PRONG-HORN ELK, DEER, GRIZZLY BEARS, WOLVES. >> IS THAT THE GOAL OR IS THAT A GOAL TO RESTORE THAT? 167 00:19:38,477 --> 00:19:44,716 >> YES, TO HAVE THE ECOSYSTEM FUNCTION FULLY AS IT ONCE DID. >> CHARLES RUSSELL'S PAINTINGS PORTRAY A ROMANTICIZED VERSION 168 00:19:44,783 --> 00:19:50,522 OF WHAT THE PRAIRIE ECOSYSTEM USED TO LOOK LIKE. TEEMING HERDS OF BUFFALO. NATIVE AMERICANS HUNTING AND 169 00:19:50,589 --> 00:19:55,794 LIVING ALONGSIDE THE BUFFALO, AT LEAST UNTIL THEY BOTH WERE DISPLACED BY WHITE SETTLERS AND HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CATTLE. 170 00:19:55,861 --> 00:20:01,133 >> IT'S AMAZING TO THINK OF THE PEOPLE THAT LIVED HERE BEFORE US, PEOPLE AND OTHER THINGS. SO, OVER THIS DIRECTION THERE'S 171 00:20:01,199 --> 00:20:06,838 QUITE A CLUSTER OF TEPEE RINGS. SO THE NATIVE AMERICANS USED TO USE THIS. >> C'MON, RUSS. 172 00:20:06,905 --> 00:20:13,145 >> CONNI FRENCH OPERATES THIS CATTLE RANCH WITH HER HUSBAND CRAIG, AND THEY ARE PROUD OF THEIR COLLABORATION WITH 173 00:20:13,211 --> 00:20:20,552 CONSERVATION GROUPS. IN FACT, THEY GRAZE SOME OF THEIR CATTLE ON A RANCH THAT'S BEEN OWNED BY THE NATURE 174 00:20:20,619 --> 00:20:27,392 CONSERVANCY FOR MORE THAN 20 YEARS. >> OKAY, GIRL. >> BUT WHEN AMERICAN PRAIRIE'S 175 00:20:27,459 --> 00:20:35,267 EARLY LEADERS CAME IN TALKING ABOUT "SAVING" THE LAND, IT REALLY RUBBED HER WRONG. >> SO SAVING IT, YES, BUT NOT 176 00:20:35,334 --> 00:20:40,505 JUST TROMPING OVER PEOPLE. >> IS THAT WHAT IT FEELS LIKE? >> IT DOES FEEL LIKE THAT SOMETIMES. 177 00:20:40,572 --> 00:20:45,777 YES, SO. >> THEY CAME IN LIKE, "WE KNOW BETTER." >> UH-HUH. 178 00:20:45,844 --> 00:20:53,652 >> YOU HAVE SAID THAT FOR THEIR VISION TO BECOME A REALITY, YOU AND WHAT YOU DO, THAT YOU'RE GONE. 179 00:20:53,719 --> 00:21:01,627 >> UH-HUH. I GUESS I CAN SAY, YES, THAT'S HOW IT FEELS TO US, TO ME. >> ALONG THE FEW ROADS SLICING 180 00:21:01,693 --> 00:21:09,001 THROUGH THE GRASSLANDS HERE, THE SIGNS ARE EVERYWHERE: "SAVE THE COWBOY." "STOP AMERICAN PRAIRIE RESERVE." 181 00:21:09,067 --> 00:21:18,477 THEY MAKE IT CLEAR THAT A LOT OF CONNI FRENCH'S RANCHING NEIGHBORS SHARE HER CONCERN. >> WHAT SOME RANCHERS HAVE TOLD 182 00:21:18,543 --> 00:21:27,953 US IS THAT WHEN YOU SAY YOU WANT TO SAVE THE LAND, WHAT THEY HEAR IS THAT YOU WANT TO SAVE THE LAND FROM THEM. 183 00:21:28,020 --> 00:21:37,095 >> YEAH. WE ARE WELL AWARE THAT THAT WORD "SAVE" HIT A NERVE. AND THAT WAS NOT AT ALL OUR 184 00:21:37,162 --> 00:21:43,402 INTENTION. MANY OF OUR RANCHING NEIGHBORS ARE COMMITTED TO CONSERVATION. SO IF I COULD PULL BACK THAT 185 00:21:43,468 --> 00:21:48,573 WORD "SAVE," I ABSOLUTELY WOULD. >> AMERICAN PRAIRIE IS NOW WORKING HARD TO MEND FENCES WITH SKEPTICAL NEIGHBORS. 186 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:53,979 IT HAS A PROGRAM CALLED "WILD SKY," RUN BY A WILDLIFE BIOLOGIST ON ITS STAFF, DANIEL KINKA. 187 00:21:54,046 --> 00:22:01,386 >> WILD SKY RANCHERS ARE THE BEST AT WHAT THEY DO, IN TERMS OF SUSTAINABLE RANCHING. >> WILD SKY WILL PAY A RANCHER 188 00:22:01,453 --> 00:22:09,828 UP TO $15,000 A YEAR FOR THINGS LIKE MODIFYING FENCES TO MAKE THEM EASIER FOR WILDLIFE TO GET OVER OR THROUGH, WHILE STILL 189 00:22:09,895 --> 00:22:17,703 KEEPING CATTLE CONTAINED. IT ALSO PAYS RANCHERS TO INSTALL CAMERAS ON THEIR PROPERTY. >> THE RANCHER GETS PAID FOR 190 00:22:17,769 --> 00:22:22,441 EVERY ANIMAL THAT CROSSES THE PATH OF THIS CAMERA? >> THAT'S CORRECT. YOU GET A COYOTE, THAT'S 25 191 00:22:22,507 --> 00:22:27,179 BUCKS. A BLACK BEAR COMES BEHIND IT, THAT'S 300 BUCKS. FOUR OR FIVE ELK COME BEHIND IT, 192 00:22:27,245 --> 00:22:34,152 THAT'S 50 BUCKS. THE BIGGEST PAYOUTS ARE FOR WOLVES AND GRIZZLY BEARS, $500 PER PICTURE PER CAMERA PER DAY. 193 00:22:34,219 --> 00:22:41,393 >> WOLVES AND GRIZZLY BEARS AREN'T ON THIS PART OF THE PRAIRIE AT THE MOMENT, THE IDEA OF WILD SKY IS THAT AS THEY AND 194 00:22:41,460 --> 00:22:53,105 OTHER WILDLIFE DO RETURN, PAYMENTS WILL HELP CATTLE RANCHERS TOLERATE THEM. >> MAKE SURE YOU FOLLOW UP 195 00:22:53,171 --> 00:23:03,949 THEICALVES. >> LANCE JOHNSON, A FOURTH-GENERATION MONTANAN WHO RUNS A CATTLE RANCH WITH HIS 196 00:23:04,015 --> 00:23:08,120 WIFE AND TWO DAUGHTERS, IS ONE OF 15 WILD SKY RANCHERS. THE CAMERAS ON HIS PROPERTY HAVE CAPTURED ENOUGH PICTURES THIS 197 00:23:08,186 --> 00:23:14,226 YEAR TO EARN HIM $6,000, THE ANNUAL MAXIMUM AMERICAN PRAIRIE WILL PAY FOR PHOTOS OF WILDLIFE. >> THESE RANCHERS ARE SO HARD TO 198 00:23:14,292 --> 00:23:20,766 MAKE PROFITABLE THAT IF YOU CAN FIGURE OUT ANY WAY TO SUPPLEMENT YOUR INCOME, THEN THAT'S PROBABLY NECESSARY RIGHT NOW. 199 00:23:20,832 --> 00:23:29,174 >> JOHNSON ALSO LEASES GRASS AND GRAZES CATTLE ON A RANCH OWNED BY AMERICAN PRAIRIE. SO WHILE SOME OF HIS NEIGHBORS 200 00:23:29,241 --> 00:23:36,515 SEE IT AS A THREAT, HE SAYS THAT WORKING WITH IT HELPS ENSURE HIS FAMILY'S FUTURE. >> YOU SEE A PLACE FOR YOU AND 201 00:23:36,581 --> 00:23:42,854 YOUR DAUGHTERS AND YOUR CATTLE ON THIS LAND FOR THEIR FORESEEABLE FUTURE. >> WE HOPE SO. 202 00:23:42,921 --> 00:23:47,592 WE HOPE FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES THAT WE'RE HERE. I WANT TO DO EVERYTHING I CAN TO GIVE OUR GIRLS THAT OPPORTUNITY 203 00:23:47,659 --> 00:23:53,365 TO HAVE RANCHING IN THEIR FUTURE. >> AMERICAN PRAIRIE SAYS IT INTENDS TO WORK ALONGSIDE CATTLE 204 00:23:53,431 --> 00:24:04,009 RANCHERS FOR DECADES TO COME, AND IT DOES HAVE SOME NATURAL ALLIES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. >> THE RANCHER AND THE WILD 205 00:24:04,075 --> 00:24:10,849 SPACE, CAN THOSE TWO CO-EXIST? >> YEAH, THEY CAN, AND THEY ARE. HAPPENING RIGHT NOW. >> MARK AZURE WAS BORN AND 206 00:24:10,916 --> 00:24:18,190 RAISED ON THE FORT BELKNAP RESERVATION, WHICH IS ADJACENT TO WHERE AMERICAN PRAIRIE IS ASSEMBLING ITS RESERVE. 207 00:24:18,256 --> 00:24:24,496 HE'S A FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE RESERVATION'S TRIBAL COUNCIL, MADE UP OF MEMBERS OF TWO TRIBES, THE NAKODA AND THE 208 00:24:24,563 --> 00:24:33,972 AANIIIH. >> IS THERE ANY RECOLLECTION OF WHAT THIS LAND WAS LIKE BEFORE THE WHITE SETTLERS CAME? 209 00:24:34,039 --> 00:24:40,278 LIKE, THE WILDLIFE. >> YES. IT -- IT WAS PLENTIFUL. MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF BUFFALO 210 00:24:40,345 --> 00:24:53,925 AND ANTELOPE AND DEER AND PRAIRIE DOGS, BLACK-FOOTED FERRETS, ELK. >> THE TRIBES AT FORT BELKNAP 211 00:24:53,992 --> 00:24:59,231 BEGAN BUILDING THEIR BISON HERD NEARLY A HALF CENTURY AGO, AND IT'S NOW MORE THAN A HUNDRED THOUSAND ANIMALS. 212 00:24:59,297 --> 00:25:05,103 MARK AZURE TOOK US OUT TO SEE PART OF THE HERD, WHICH ROAMS ACROSS A HUGE PASTURE ON THE RESERVATION. 213 00:25:05,170 --> 00:25:11,910 >> SO THEY'RE JUST SCATTERED OUT DOING WHAT BUFFALO DO, AND THAT'S EAT THE GRASS AND RIGHT NOW ENJOY THE WEATHER. 214 00:25:11,977 --> 00:25:20,886 >> THE TRIBES BENEFIT ECONOMICALLY FROM SELLING SOME BUFFALO MEAT, BUT YOU CAN SEE IN THE SYMBOLS USED DURING NATIVE 215 00:25:20,952 --> 00:25:30,362 CEREMONIES THAT THEIR VALUE IS MUCH GREATER THAN MONEY. >> WE KNOW THE HISTORY OF THE TRIBES AND THE BUFFALO. 216 00:25:30,428 --> 00:25:40,338 AND THEY WERE ONE AND THE SAME. TO COME OUT HERE AND GET ON THE PRAIRIE AND SEE A HERD OF BUFFALO, YOU CAN KIND OF LEAVE 217 00:25:40,405 --> 00:25:49,281 THAT WORLD FOR A LITTLE BIT AND RECONNECT WITH THAT LIFESTYLE THAT MY ANCESTORS LIVED YEARS AGO. 218 00:25:49,347 --> 00:25:57,255 MIGHT BE JUST A LITTLE BIT, BUT IT'S THERE. >> SOME RANCHERS FEAR THAT THE TRIBES AND AMERICAN PRAIRIE WILL 219 00:25:57,322 --> 00:26:04,095 LET THEIR BUFFALO ROAM FREE AS THEY ONCE DID. >> YOU USED THE TERM, "FREE." AND I ALWAYS ARGUED THAT POINT. 220 00:26:04,162 --> 00:26:10,936 BECAUSE THERE'S A FENCE SOMEWHERE. THERE HAS TO BE A FENCE SOMEWHERE. 221 00:26:11,002 --> 00:26:19,344 BUT AS MUCH ROOM AS WE CAN GIVE THEM TO ROAM, THEN WITHIN THAT CONTEXT, THEY'LL BE FREE. BUT NOT LIKE IT WAS 200 YEARS 222 00:26:19,411 --> 00:26:26,451 AGO. AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT. >> STILL BE A PLACE WHERE YOU CAN COME TO SEE THE BUFFALO 223 00:26:26,518 --> 00:26:30,422 ROAM. >> ABSOLUTELY. >> AMERICAN PRAIRIE ENCOURAGES PEOPLE TO VISIT THE LAND IT 224 00:26:30,488 --> 00:26:36,194 OWNS. IT OPERATES CAMPGROUNDS AND HAS BUILT HUTS AND YURTS THAT ANYONE CAN RESERVE. 225 00:26:36,261 --> 00:26:45,136 IT ALLOWS HUNTING ON MANY PROPERTIES, WHICH HELPS TO BUILD SUPPORT AMONG MONTANANS. >> ACROSS THE WEST, YOU SEE MORE 226 00:26:45,203 --> 00:26:54,579 AND MORE "NO TRESPASSING" SIGNS. WE'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT WILDLIFE AND WILDLIFE HABITAT, BUT CERTAINLY PROVIDING ACCESS 227 00:26:54,646 --> 00:27:14,666 FOR PEOPLE TO APPRECIATE, LEARN FROM, RECREATE ON. THIS LAND IS A REALLY IMPORTANT PART OF WHAT WE'RE DOING AS 228 00:27:14,733 --> 00:27:19,371 WELL. >> THE DEBATE OVER AMERICAN PRAIRIE IS OFTEN FRAMED AS AN "EITHER/OR." 229 00:27:19,437 --> 00:27:25,176 EITHER THERE ARE CATTLE, OR BUFFALO. I PRESERVATIONISTS WIN, RANCHERS LOSE. 230 00:27:25,243 --> 00:27:31,016 WHAT WE FOUND ACROSS THESE WIDE EXPANSES OF GRASS WERE MUCH MORE SUBTLE SHADES OF GREEN. >> YOU KNOW, WHEN A NEW GROUP 231 00:27:31,082 --> 00:27:35,186 COMES IN, NEW FOLKS, NEW NEIGHBORS -- IT TAKES SOME TIME TO LEARN IF IT'S LEGIT. >> WHAT I THINK I HEAR YOU 232 00:27:35,253 --> 00:27:39,924 SAYING IS THEY HAVE TO EARN YOUR TRUST. >> UH-HUH. >> AND SO FAR, THEY HAVE NOT. 233 00:27:39,991 --> 00:27:44,129 >> NO. THAT TRUST ISN'T GIVEN LIGHTLY. >> WITH THE SIZE OF THE STATE OF MONTANA, AND THE HERDS OF 234 00:27:44,195 --> 00:27:50,435 CATTLE, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF ANIMALS IN THIS STATE, I DON'T THINK BUFFALO WILL EVER COMPETE, AND THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE TRYING 235 00:27:50,502 --> 00:27:58,843 TO DO. WE'RE TRYING, WITH AMERICAN PRAIRIE, TAKE A SECTION OF LAND IN THE STATE AND RETURN IT BACK 236 00:27:58,910 --> 00:28:06,284 AS BEST WE CAN TO WHAT IT WAS 200 YEARS AGO. >> IT'S A HUGE SECTION OF LAND. >> STILL NOT BIGGER THAN 237 00:28:06,351 --> 00:28:11,256 MONTANA. I THINK THERE'S ROOM HERE FOR BOTH. 238 00:28:23,568 --> 00:28:30,775 >>> WHEN RUSSIA INVADED UKRAINE LAST YEAR, JAMES NACHTWEY PACKED UP HIS CAMERAS AND KEVLAR VEST AND RUSHED TO THE FRONT LINES. 239 00:28:30,842 --> 00:28:37,615 NACHTWEY IS ONE OF THE GREATEST WAR PHOTOGRAPHERS OF ALL TIME. OVER THE LAST FOUR DECADES, HE'S COVERED NEARLY EVERY ARMED 240 00:28:37,682 --> 00:28:44,489 CONFLICT IN THE WORLD. HE WAS SHOT IN THE LEG IN THAILAND, WOUNDED BY A BOMB IN EL SALVADOR, A MORTAR IN BEIRUT, 241 00:28:44,556 --> 00:28:50,762 AND A GRENADE IN IRAQ THAT WAS TOSSED INTO A HUMVEE HE WAS RIDING IN. JAMES NACHTWEY IS 75 NOW, AND AS 242 00:28:50,829 --> 00:28:58,103 WE FIRST REPORTED IN MAY, STILL RISKING HIS LIFE TO CAPTURE IMAGES THAT MAY BE DIFFICULT TO LOOK AT, BUT IMPORTANT TO NEVER 243 00:28:58,169 --> 00:29:07,112 FORGET. >> IN THE DARKEST TIMES AND IN THE MOST DANGEROUS PLACES, JAMES NACHTWEY CAPTURES BEAUTY AND 244 00:29:07,178 --> 00:29:16,588 BRUTALITY. MOMENTS OF HATE AND HEROISM, SENSELESS DESTRUCTION, AND QUIET ACTS OF COMPASSION. 245 00:29:16,654 --> 00:29:23,928 HIS PHOTOGRAPHS REVEAL THE DEEPEST AND OFTEN DISTURBING DEPTHS OF WHO WE ARE AND WHAT WE DO TO EACH OTHER. 246 00:29:23,995 --> 00:29:29,734 >> YOU'VE SAID THAT PHOTOGRAPHS CAN SPEAK, AND I'M WONDERING IF YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'RE -- YOU'RE HELPING GIVE VOICE TO SOME OF 247 00:29:29,801 --> 00:29:38,676 THE PEOPLE YOU PHOTOGRAPH. >> WELL, MANY OF THE PEOPLE I PHOTOGRAPHED ARE MARGINALIZED BY THE POWERS THAT BE, THAT THEY'RE 248 00:29:38,743 --> 00:29:48,686 SILENCED, THEY'RE MADE INVISIBLE. SO WHEN SOMEONE COMES FROM ANOTHER PART OF THE WORLD AND HE 249 00:29:48,753 --> 00:29:54,993 ASSUMES RISK TO TELL THEIR STORY, I THINK PEOPLE SEE US AS A KIND OF MESSENGER. >> NACHTWEY HAS DEVOTED HIS LIFE 250 00:29:55,059 --> 00:30:02,333 TO TELLING OTHER PEOPLE'S STORIES, BEARING WITNESS TO THEIR SUFFERING AND SACRIFICES. BUT DOCUMENTING WHAT HE CALLS 251 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:09,707 "THE INSANITY OF WAR" HAS BEEN THE CORE OF HIS CAREER. HE'S SPENT DECADES COVERING CONFLICTS IN AFGHANISTAN AND THE 252 00:30:09,774 --> 00:30:16,548 MIDDLE EAST, THE WAR IN BOSNIA, AND THE GENOCIDE IN RWANDA WHEN AS MANY AS A MILLION PEOPLE DIED. 253 00:30:16,614 --> 00:30:21,286 >> SOME PHOTOGRAPHERS HAVE TALKED ABOUT THEIR CAMERA AS A WEAPON. DO YOU THINK OF YOUR CAMERA IN 254 00:30:21,352 --> 00:30:25,523 THAT WAY? >> I THINK IT'S A WAY OF LOOKING AT IT. BECAUSE, IN A WAY YOU'RE -- YOU 255 00:30:25,590 --> 00:30:34,399 MIGHT BE FIGHTING FOR PEACE OR FIGHTING AGAINST AN INJUSTICE, AND THE WAY YOU DO IT IS BY INFORMING PEOPLE ABOUT IT, WITH 256 00:30:34,465 --> 00:30:41,239 THE FAITH THAT PEOPLE WILL WANT SOMETHING DONE ABOUT IT. >> IN UKRAINE AT THE START OF THE WAR, NACHTWEY WORKED IN AND 257 00:30:41,306 --> 00:30:47,545 AROUND KYIV AND KHARKIV FOR "THE NEW YORKER" MAGAZINE. THESE ARE IMAGES HE TOOK IN BUCHA SHORTLY AFTER RUSSIAN 258 00:30:47,612 --> 00:30:54,919 TROOPS PULLED OUT, LEAVING BEHIND THE BODIES OF CIVILIANS THEY'D EXECUTED. >> BUCHA WAS HORRENDOUS. 259 00:30:54,986 --> 00:31:01,259 IT WAS REALLY, LIKE, KIND OF BUTCHERY. >> IN TERMS OF BRUTALITY, OF ALL THE MILITARIES YOU HAVE SEEN, 260 00:31:01,326 --> 00:31:10,802 DOES THE RUSSIAN MILITARY STAND APART IN UKRAINE FOR THEIR BEHAVIOR? >> SOMEHOW THE RUSSIANS HAVE 261 00:31:10,868 --> 00:31:17,108 STOOD APART, NOT ONLY IN UKRAINE, BUT IN CHECHNYA. >> NACHTWEY WAS IN CHECHNYA'S CAPITAL GROZNY FOR WEEKS IN 1995 262 00:31:17,175 --> 00:31:23,648 AND '96, AS RUSSIAN FORCES RELENTLESSLY BOMBARDED THE CITY. >> THE PART THAT WAS INHABITED BY THE CHECHENS WAS POUNDED INTO 263 00:31:23,715 --> 00:31:30,421 RUBBLE FROM ARTILLERY, AND ROCKETFIRE, AND AIRSTRIKES FOR WEKS AND WEEKS ON END, WITH THE CIVILIAN POPULATION TRAPPED 264 00:31:30,488 --> 00:31:39,264 INSIDE. THEY'VE TAKEN THAT TO UKRAINE, BUT IT'S THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. >> IN KHARKIV IN EASTERN 265 00:31:39,330 --> 00:31:44,502 UKRAINE, LAST YEAR WE WATCHED NACHTWEY AS HE WORKED, PHOTOGRAPHING A MAN LIVING IN A CRAWL SPACE UNDER A BUILDING TO 266 00:31:44,569 --> 00:31:51,342 AVOID SHELLING. MONTHS LATER, BACK IN HIS NEW HAMPSHIRE STUDIO, NACHTWEY SHOWED US SOME OF THE IMAGES 267 00:31:51,409 --> 00:31:57,148 HE'D TAKEN. >> WHAT MADE THIS AN IMAGE THAT SPOKE TO YOU? >> THE EXPRESSION ON HIS FACE. 268 00:31:57,215 --> 00:32:04,555 IF YOU REALLY LOOK CAREFULLY AT HIS EYES, YOU CAN SEE THERE'S TERROR IN HIS EYES. HE'D JUST BEEN LIVING IN A STATE 269 00:32:04,622 --> 00:32:11,929 OF TERROR FOR QUITE A WHILE. >> THIS PHOTOGRAPH WAS TAKEN IN A KYIV SUBURB OF CIVILIANS EVACUATING ACROSS A MAKESHIFT 270 00:32:11,996 --> 00:32:17,201 BRIDGE. >> THESE ARE SPLIT SECONDS THAT ARE OCCURRING. YOU CAN BE RUNNING AND TAKING A 271 00:32:17,268 --> 00:32:25,109 PICTURE. >> QUITE OFTEN I'M RUNNING. AND I HAVE TO TRY AND MAKE A COMPOSITION, GET IT IN FOCUS, 272 00:32:25,176 --> 00:32:30,381 AND CATCH THE MOMENT. >> PEOPLE TALK ABOUT YOUR USE OF HANDS IN IMAGES. IS THAT SOMETHING YOU'RE 273 00:32:30,448 --> 00:32:35,119 CONSCIOUS OF? >> I'M EXTREMELY CONSCIOUS OF HANDS AND EYES. I THINK THOSE ARE THE TWO MOST 274 00:32:35,186 --> 00:32:41,426 EXPRESSIVE PARTS OF PEOPLE. >> THIS IS A REALLY GOOD EXAMPLE HERE. >> THAT'S THE CENTER OF THE 275 00:32:41,492 --> 00:32:48,800 PICTURE THE OLD MAN'S HAND, REACHING FOR SUPPORT TO BE HELD UP BY THE VOLUNTEER. >> HOW MANY SCENES LIKE THIS 276 00:32:48,866 --> 00:32:54,605 HAVE YOU SEEN IN YOUR LIFE? >> TOO MANY. >> DECADES OF NACHTWEY'S PHOTOGRAPHS ARE ON DISPLAY IN A 277 00:32:54,672 --> 00:33:03,614 TRAVELING EXHIBITION CALLED "MEMORIA." WHEN IT STOPPED IN NEW YORK, HE SHOWED US SOME OF THE 67 278 00:33:03,681 --> 00:33:07,852 STUNNING IMAGES IN IT. >> THESE ARE THE ORPHANAGES IN ROMANIA. >> IN 1990, NACHTWEY HELPED 279 00:33:07,919 --> 00:33:13,658 REVEAL THE SHOCKING SQUALOR AND NEGLECT IN ROMANIA'S STATE RUN ORPHANAGES. >> THE CRIBS WERE JUST PACKED 280 00:33:13,725 --> 00:33:21,499 TOGETHER. THE CHILDREN WERE IN THE CRIBS, AND THEY WEREN'T TAKEN OUT TO PLAY. 281 00:33:21,566 --> 00:33:28,406 THERE WAS ALMOST LIKE IN PRISON, IN A WAY. >> HIS PHOTOGRAPHS, PUBLISHED IN "THE NEW YORK TIMES" MAGAZINE, 282 00:33:28,473 --> 00:33:33,611 HELPED LEAD TO AN INTERNATIONAL EFFORT TO RESCUE THESE CHILDREN. >> HOW DOES A CHILD WHO'S, WHAT, 3 YEARS OLD MAYBE HAVE A LOOK 283 00:33:33,678 --> 00:33:39,951 LIKE THAT IN HIS EYES? >> OTHER WALLS IN THE EXHIBITION WERE LINED WITH CASUALTIES OF WAR, A FAMILY MOURNING IN 284 00:33:40,017 --> 00:33:46,257 BOSNIA, A FATHER PROTECTING HIS WOUNDED DAUGHTER FROM GUNFIRE IN EL SALVADOR. >> THOSE ARE MACHETE STRIKES? 285 00:33:46,324 --> 00:33:54,132 >> AND THIS MAN -- A SURVIVOR OF A MACHETE ATTACK IN RWANDA. >> HE COULDN'T TALK. I APPROACHED HIM VERY SLOWLY. 286 00:33:54,198 --> 00:33:59,937 AND I JUST MADE EYE CONTACT WITH HIM. AND I SHOWED HIM MY CAMERA. AND HE ALLOWED ME TO TAKE THE 287 00:34:00,004 --> 00:34:06,310 PICTURE. HE EVEN TURNED HIS FACE MORE TOWARD THE LIGHT WITHOUT ME ASKING. 288 00:34:06,377 --> 00:34:12,483 >> THAT'S IMPORTANT TO YOU, THAT SOMEBODY GIVES THEIR PERMISSION IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS? >> I DON'T WANT TO FEEL LIKE I'M 289 00:34:12,550 --> 00:34:19,457 TAKING FROM PEOPLE. I WANT THEM TO FEEL LIKE THEY'RE PART OF WHAT I'M DOING. AND I THINK HE UNDERSTOOD WHAT 290 00:34:19,524 --> 00:34:25,730 HIS SCARS WOULD SAY TO THE REST OF THE WORLD. >> DO YOU GET DEPRESSED BY IT? DO YOU CRY? 291 00:34:25,797 --> 00:34:37,875 DO YOU GET ANGRY? >> I'M ANGRY A LOT OF THE TIME. I MEAN, WHEN I SEE INNOCENT PEOPLE BEING PUSHED AROUND AND 292 00:34:37,942 --> 00:34:45,750 BULLIED, YEAH, I FIGHT DEPRESSION. IT -- THE THINGS ARE DEPRESSING. BUT I THINK IT'S A SENSE OF 293 00:34:45,817 --> 00:34:51,022 PURPOSE THAT, YOU KNOW, SORT OF DRIVES ME THROUGH THAT. >> YOU'VE SAID THAT YOU HAD TO LEARN HOW TO CHANNEL YOUR ANGER 294 00:34:51,088 --> 00:34:57,862 AS A JOURNALIST. >> I REALIZE ANGER CAN JUST THROW YOU OFF THE RAILS. SO I CHANNEL IT INTO THE 295 00:34:57,929 --> 00:35:04,268 PICTURES. AND I THINK MY PICTURES HAVE ANGER IN THEM, BUT THEY ALSO HAVE COMPASSION. 296 00:35:04,335 --> 00:35:09,006 >> IT WS THIS IMAGE AND OTHERS TAKEN BY THE LEGENDARY "LIFE" MAGAZINE PHOTOGRAPHER LARRY BURROWS IN VIETNAM THAT OPENED 297 00:35:09,073 --> 00:35:15,847 NACHTWEY'S EYES TO THE POWER OF PICTURES WHEN HE WAS A STUDENT AT DARTMOUTH COLLEGE IN THE LATE 1960s. 298 00:35:15,913 --> 00:35:22,720 BURROWS' PHOTOGRAPHS HAD A POINT OF VIEW, REVEALING THE REALITY OF WAR FOR SERVICE MEMBERS AND CIVILIANS ALIKE. 299 00:35:22,787 --> 00:35:29,026 >> HOW DID YOU START? >> I JUST STARTED COLD. I READ BOOKS. I WOULD CREATE ASSIGNMENTS FOR 300 00:35:29,093 --> 00:35:36,901 MYSELF, AND I WOULD GO OUT AS IF I WAS WORKING FOR AN EDITOR AND PRACTICE. >> WAIT, SO YOU WOULD JUST MAKE 301 00:35:36,968 --> 00:35:42,206 UP YOUR OWN ASSIGNMENTS? >> YES. I SAID, "OKAY, I'M GOING TO GO OUT ON THAT FISHING TRAWLER." 302 00:35:42,273 --> 00:35:46,978 YOU KNOW, MAKING BELIEVE, YOU KNOW, I WAS SHOOTING FOR "NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC" OR SOMETHING. 303 00:35:47,044 --> 00:35:51,682 >> HE LANDED A JOB TAKING PICTURES FOR THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL IN 1976. THAT'S HIS PHOTO ON THE FRONT 304 00:35:51,749 --> 00:35:56,988 PAGE. >> BUT IT WASN'T UNTIL 1981, AFTER TEN YEARS OF TRAINING, THAT NACHTWEY FELT READY TO 305 00:35:57,054 --> 00:36:02,293 PHOTOGRAPH ARMED CONFLICT. HE BOUGHT A TICKET TO BELFAST, NORTHERN IRELAND, WHERE RIOTS AND STREET BATTLES WERE 306 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:08,099 ESCALATING. >> DID YOU KNOW PEOPLE THERE? >> I DIDN'T KNOW ANYONE. I WAS GREEN. 307 00:36:08,165 --> 00:36:13,871 I JUST THREW MYSELF INTO IT. >> HIS PHOTOGRAPHS FROM THERE WERE PUBLISHED BY "NEWSWEEK" MAGAZINE. 308 00:36:13,938 --> 00:36:20,711 >> I FELT THAT I WAS IN THE MIDST OF HISTORY AS IT WAS HAPPENING, AND I WAS DOCUMENTING IT AND THAT -- THAT WAS REALLY 309 00:36:20,778 --> 00:36:25,983 AN EXCITING FEELING. >> YOU WERE ON THE BREAKING WAVE OF HISTORY. >> I MEAN, ISN'T THAT WHAT 310 00:36:26,050 --> 00:36:30,688 PHOTOGRAPHERS DO? BECAUSE NOTHING'S BEEN WRITTEN. A SITUATION IS HAPPENING, WE ACTUALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING 311 00:36:30,755 --> 00:36:37,562 TO HAPPEN IN THE NEXT MOMENT. ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN. >> HIS UNFLINCHING COVERAGE OF THE CIVIL WARS IN CENTRAL 312 00:36:37,628 --> 00:36:44,402 AMERICA IN THE 1980s CEMENTED NACHTWEY'S REPUTATION AND EARNED HIM A CONTRACT WITH "TIME" MAGAZINE, WHERE HIS WORK 313 00:36:44,468 --> 00:36:52,810 APPEARED FOR THE NEXT 34 YEARS. IN SOUTH AFRICA IN THE EARLY 1990s, NACHTWEY COVERED THE VIOLENT END OF APARTHEID AND THE 314 00:36:52,877 --> 00:37:01,218 BLOOD-SOAKED BIRTH OF A NEW DEMOCRACY. HE WAS THERE WHEN ANOTHER PHOTOJOURNALIST KEN OOSTERBROEK 315 00:37:01,285 --> 00:37:06,557 WAS SHOT TO DEATH AND TWO OTHER COLLEAGUES WOUNDED. >> WE WERE DOWN ON THE GROUND, TRYING TO NOT BE TARGETS OF 316 00:37:06,624 --> 00:37:12,363 INCOMING FIRE. AND YOU CAN SEE MY HAIR PART FROM THE BULLET GOING THROUGH MY HAIR. 317 00:37:12,430 --> 00:37:17,635 >> YOU ACTUALLY FELT THE BULLET GOING THROUGH YOUR HAIR? >> YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE IT ON THE FILM. 318 00:37:17,702 --> 00:37:22,873 >> HERE IT IS AGAIN IN SLOW MOTION, AS NACHTWEY IN THE WHITE SHIRT MOVED TO REACH HIS INJURED COLLEAGUE, A BULLET, LIKE A GUST 319 00:37:22,940 --> 00:37:30,247 OF WIND, GRAZED HIS HAIR. >> YOU'VE COME CLOSE MANY TIMES TO BEING KILLED. IS IT WORTH IT FOR THESE IMAGES? 320 00:37:30,314 --> 00:37:38,122 >> IT'S NOT FOR ANY ONE IMAGE. IT'S FOR THE JOB ITSELF. I DECIDED A LONG TIME AGO THAT IF I WAS GOING TO DO THIS, I 321 00:37:38,189 --> 00:37:44,428 WOULD HAVE TO PUT MYSELF AT RISK, AND ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN. >> YOU CLEARLY MADE A COMMITMENT THAT THIS WAS WORTH SACRIFICING 322 00:37:44,495 --> 00:37:54,438 FOR, WORTH SACRIFICING HAVING A FAMILY FOR. >> I REALIZED THAT IF I WERE TO PURSUE WHAT I'M DOING, AND I WAS 323 00:37:54,505 --> 00:38:00,244 VERY DRIVEN TO DO THAT, I WOULDN'T BE A GOOD FATHER. I WOULDN'T BE A GOOD HUSBAND, AND ALL OF THAT WOULD FALL 324 00:38:00,311 --> 00:38:07,151 APART. I JUST DIDN'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN. SO I HAD TO FOREGO IT. 325 00:38:07,218 --> 00:38:20,297 >> NACHTWEY LIVES IN HANOVER, NEW HAMPSHIRE, WHERE HE WENT TO COLLEGE, THOUGH HE IS RARELY THERE FOR LONG. 326 00:38:20,364 --> 00:38:26,604 HIS LIFE'S WORK, NEARLY A MILLION IMAGES, HAS BEEN ACQUIRED BY DARTMOUTH, INCLUDING HIS WRENCHING COVERAGE OF THE 327 00:38:26,671 --> 00:38:32,710 OPIOID EPIDEMIC IN THE U.S. AND CONTACT SHEETS FROM THE MORNING OF SEPTEMBER 11th. NACHTWEY WAS JUST BLOCKS AWAY 328 00:38:32,777 --> 00:38:37,648 WHEN THE TOWERS WERE HIT. >> SO THAT'S THE FIRST IMAGE. >> YES, THAT'S ROLL ONE. THAT'S THE FIRST PICTURE RIGHT 329 00:38:37,715 --> 00:38:42,953 THERE. >> THE PROOF SHEETS ARE A SILENT REMINDER OF THE HORROR THAT DAY, BUT ALSO REVEAL HOW NACHTWEY 330 00:38:43,020 --> 00:38:49,727 WORKS. HE ISN'T JUST A PHOTOGRAPHER DOCUMENTING DESTRUCTION. HE'S A MAN IN SEARCH OF MEANING. 331 00:38:49,794 --> 00:38:54,465 >> ABOUT A BLOCK AND A HALF FROM THE SOUTH TOWER WAS A SMALL ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH WITH A CROSS ON THE TOP. 332 00:38:54,532 --> 00:39:00,271 AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS AN INTERESTING WAY OF FRAMING IT. IT SOMEHOW INDICATED THE CULTURAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHO 333 00:39:00,337 --> 00:39:06,110 WAS BEING ATTACKED AND WHO WAS DOING THE ATTACKING. AND AS I WAS PHOTOGRAPHING IT, THE TOWER FELL. 334 00:39:06,177 --> 00:39:12,450 >> THAT'S WHAT HAPPENING RIGHT HERE? >> IT STARTS COLLAPSING AS I'M PHOTOGRAPHING IT. 335 00:39:12,516 --> 00:39:19,790 AND ALL OF THE DEBRIS, THESE GIANT GIRDERS THAT MUST HAVE WEIGHED TONS, WERE FLYING THROUGH THE AIR. 336 00:39:19,857 --> 00:39:25,596 >> YOU WERE ABOUT TO GET KILLED? >> SO I FOUND MY WAY INTO THE LEE OF A BUILDING AND IT ALL FLEW OVER ME. 337 00:39:25,663 --> 00:39:30,301 >> DECADES OF CLOSE CALLS HAVE TAKEN THEIR TOLL ON JAMES NACHTWEY. HIS HEARING IS DAMAGED, AND HE 338 00:39:30,367 --> 00:39:41,912 HAS GRENADE SHRAPNEL IN HIS KNEES, STOMACH, AND FACE, BUT HE HAS NO PLANS ON RETIRING AND STILL FINDS REASONS TO HOPE IN 339 00:39:41,979 --> 00:39:47,685 HIS CAMERA'S VIEWFINDER. >> THAT LOOK OF JUST UTTER JOY AND... >> AS IN THIS IMAGE OF NELSON 340 00:39:47,752 --> 00:39:53,991 MANDELA ON THE EVE OF HIS ELECTION AS SOUTH AFRICA'S FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT IN 1994. >> HIS FIST IN THE AIR, WHICH IS 341 00:39:54,058 --> 00:39:59,263 A SYMBOL OF BOTH TRIUMPH AND DEFIANCE. >> AND THIS ONE, TAKEN TWO YEARS EARLIER OF SOUTH AFRICAN 342 00:39:59,330 --> 00:40:05,035 CHILDREN PLAYING ON A TRAMPOLINE. >> WHAT MADE YOU TAKE THIS PICTURE? 343 00:40:05,102 --> 00:40:11,876 >> THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT THE INNOCENCE OF CHILDREN THAT'S TRANSCENDENT AND TO BOUNCE ON A TRAMPOLINE, I THINK THAT YOU GET 344 00:40:11,942 --> 00:40:19,250 TO THE HEIGHT OF YOUR JUMP AND THEN FOR A MOMENT, YOU DEFY GRAVITY. AND I THINK THAT'S THE FEELING 345 00:40:19,316 --> 00:40:25,556 THAT I WANTED TO GET IN THIS PICTURE, THAT THEY'RE TRANSCENDING THE WEIGHT THAT HAS BEEN ON THEIR SOCIETY. 346 00:40:25,623 --> 00:40:31,896 >> PERHAPS IN THE END THAT IS WHAT JAMES NACHTWEY SHOWS US IN HIS WORK. THAT WE ARE ALL CAPABLE OF 347 00:40:31,962 --> 00:40:40,137 TRANSCENDING OUR CIRCUMSTANCES AND OURSELVES. WE CAN COMMIT TERRIBLE ACTS OF BRUTALITY AND BARBARISM, BUT 348 00:40:40,204 --> 00:40:45,009 ALSO STUNNING ACTS OF KINDNESS AND CARING. >> ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC ABOUT THE HUMAN SPECIES? 349 00:40:45,075 --> 00:40:52,149 I MEAN, YOU SEE THE WORST IN PEOPLE. >> I DON'T KNOW IF "OPTIMISM" IS EXACTLY THE RIGHT WORD. 350 00:40:52,216 --> 00:41:03,460 BUT IN THESE HORRIBLE SITUATIONS, WE SEE EVERYDAY CITIZENS DOING REMARKABLE THINGS FOR EACH OTHER. 351 00:41:03,527 --> 00:41:09,266 MOTHERS AND FATHERS ARE MY HEROES. WHAT THEY DO FOR THEIR CHILDREN. HOW THEY PROTECT THEM. 352 00:41:09,333 --> 00:41:16,674 BEING IN PLACES WHERE PEOPLE HAVE NEXT TO NOTHING AND, YET, ANYTHING THEY HAVE, THEY OFFER TO A STRANGER. 353 00:41:16,740 --> 00:41:27,318 THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE ALL HAVE AND THAT ARE DISPLAYED IN THE WORST SITUATIONS THAT MAKES ME BELIEVE IN HUMANITY. 354 00:41:32,857 --> 00:41:38,596 >>> HOW JAMES NACHTWEY'S PHOTOS INSPIRED ANDERSON COOPER TO BECOME A JOURNALIST. >> YOU HAVE BEEN A PERSON WHO 355 00:41:38,662 --> 00:41:49,273 MADE ME INTERESTED IN WANTING TO DO THIS LINE OF "BIG BROTHER," N CBS AND STREAMING ON PARAMOUNT+.