1 00:00:11,478 --> 00:00:19,319 >>> ATTORNEY GENERAL MERRICK GARLAND HAS SAID LITTLE ABOUT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT PROSECUTIONS OF DONALD TRUMP AND 2 00:00:19,386 --> 00:00:26,926 HUNTER BIDEN. TONIGHT, HE TELLS US ABOUT THE PRINCIPLES THAT GUIDE HIM AND HOW HE WOULD DEAL WITH POLITICAL 3 00:00:26,993 --> 00:00:36,770 INTERFERENCE. >> IF NECESSARY, I WOULD RESIGN. BUT THERE IS NO SENSE THAT ANYTHING LIKE THAT WILL HAPPEN. 4 00:00:36,836 --> 00:00:44,711 >>> AS A "60 MINUTES" CAMERA ROLLED AND AUTHOR MICHAEL LEWIS TOOK MORE NOTES, FORMER CRYPTO MEGA BILLIONAIRE SAM 5 00:00:44,778 --> 00:00:50,183 BANKMAN-FRIED SHUFFLED CARDS AND JACKHAMMERED HIS LEGS, AVOIDING EYE CONTACT. TODAY HE IS TRYING TO AVOID 6 00:00:50,250 --> 00:00:58,992 PRISON. YOU HAD SO MUCH ACCESS TO SAM BANKMAN-FRIED WRITING THIS BOOK. WHAT ULTIMATELY IS THE PURPOSE 7 00:00:59,058 --> 00:01:02,629 HERE? >> THERE IS GOING TO BE THIS TRIAL, AND THE LAWYERS ARE GOING TO TELL TWO STORIES. 8 00:01:02,695 --> 00:01:07,634 AND SO THERE IS A STORY WAR GOING ON IN THE COURTROOM, AND I THINK NEITHER ONE OF THOSE STORIES IS AS GOOD AS THE STORY 9 00:01:07,700 --> 00:01:15,508 I HAVE. >>> I'M LESLEY STAHL. >> I'M BILL WHITAKER. >> I'M ANDERSON COOPER. 10 00:01:15,575 --> 00:01:22,582 >> I'M SHARYN ALFONSI. >> I'M JON WERTHEIM. >> I'M CECILIA VEGA. >> I'M SCOTT PELLEY. 11 00:01:22,649 --> 00:01:35,562 THOSE STORIES AND MORE TONIGHT ON "60 MINUTES." >>> NOT SINCE WATERGATE HAS AN ATTORNEY GENERAL BEEN AT THE 12 00:01:35,628 --> 00:01:44,571 CENTER OF SUCH A FIRESTORM. MERRICK GARLAND'S JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS PROSECUTING BOTH FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP AND THE 13 00:01:44,637 --> 00:01:52,212 SON OF PRESIDENT BIDEN. CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE IS THIS 70-YEAR-OLD FORMER PROSECUTOR AND WELL RESPECTED JUDGE WITH A 14 00:01:52,278 --> 00:02:00,453 LONG HISTORY AS A MODERATE. WE MET GARLAND FRIDAY IN WASHINGTON. HE TOLD US THAT HE DEVOTED HIS 15 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:08,795 LIFE TO THE RULE OF LAW BECAUSE OF HIS FAMILY'S STRUGGLE TO ESCAPE THE HOLOCAUST. NOW HE'S RESPONSIBLE FOR 16 00:02:08,862 --> 00:02:15,301 PROSECUTIONS THAT WILL SHAPE THE FUTURE OF THE NATION. IN A RARE INTERVIEW, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TOLD US THAT IN 17 00:02:15,368 --> 00:02:25,178 THE TRUMP AND BIDEN TRIALS AHEAD, HIS PROSECUTORS WILL PURSUE JUSTICE WITHOUT FEAR AND WITHOUT FAVOR. 18 00:02:25,245 --> 00:02:31,818 >> WE DO NOT HAVE ONE RULE FOR REPUBLICANS AND ANOTHER RULE FOR DEMOCRATS. WE DON'T HAVE ONE RULE FOR FOES 19 00:02:31,885 --> 00:02:38,858 AND ANOTHER FOR FRIENDS. WE DON'T HAVE ONE RULE FOR THE POWERFUL AND ANOTHER FOR THE POWERLESS, FOR THE RICH OR FOR 20 00:02:38,925 --> 00:02:45,398 THE POOR, BASED ON ETHNICITY. WE HAVE ONLY ONE RULE. AND THAT ONE RULE, WE FOLLOW THE FACTS AND THE LAW AND WE REACH 21 00:02:45,465 --> 00:02:50,870 THE DECISIONS REQUIRED BY THE CONSTITUTION, AND WE PROTECT CIVIL LIBERTIES. >> ARE YOU ESSENTIALLY SAYING AS 22 00:02:50,937 --> 00:02:58,278 ATTORNEY GENERAL TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TRUST ME? >> WELL, IN THE END, I SUPPOSE IT DOES IN THE END COME DOWN TO 23 00:02:58,344 --> 00:03:04,317 TRUST. BUT IT'S NOT JUST ME. IT'S DECADES OF THE NORMS OF THIS DEPARTMENT THAT ARE PART OF 24 00:03:04,384 --> 00:03:12,892 THE DNA OF THE CAREER PROSECUTORS WHO ARE RUNNING THE INVESTIGATION AND SUPERVISING THE INVESTIGATIONS THAT YOU'RE 25 00:03:12,959 --> 00:03:20,567 TALKING ABOUT. >> FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP FACES TWO FEDERAL TRIALS, ONE FOR ALLEGEDLY HOARDING CLASSIFIED 26 00:03:20,633 --> 00:03:28,174 DOCUMENTS AND COVERING IT UP, THE OTHER FOR ALLEGEDLY CONSPIRING TO SEIZE POWER AFTER THE 2020 ELECTION. 27 00:03:28,241 --> 00:03:35,748 ATTORNEY GENERAL GARLAND HAS SAID LITTLE ABOUT THIS, AND WE WANTED TO UNDERSTAND WHY. >> WELL, I THINK THE FIRST THING 28 00:03:35,815 --> 00:03:42,488 TO UNDERSTAND IS BECAUSE THESE ARE PENDING CASE, BECAUSE THERE ARE TWO FEDERAL INDICTMENTS, THE LONG-STANDING RULE IN THE 29 00:03:42,555 --> 00:03:46,759 JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS THAT WE CAN'T COMMENT ABOUT PENDING CASES. >> WHERE DOES THAT RULE COME 30 00:03:46,826 --> 00:03:51,230 FROM? WHAT'S THE POINT? >> ONE REASON IS TO PROTECT THE PRIVACY AND THE CIVIL LIBERTIES 31 00:03:51,297 --> 00:03:58,037 OF THE PERSON WHO IS UNDER INVESTIGATION. IT'S TO PROTECT WITNESSES WHO ALSO MAY OR MAY NOT BECOME 32 00:03:58,104 --> 00:04:04,310 PUBLIC LATER IN AN INVESTIGATION. AND THEN FINALLY, IT'S TO PROTECT THE INVESTIGATION 33 00:04:04,377 --> 00:04:09,849 ITSELF. INVESTIGATIONS PROCEED IN MANY DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS, EVENTUALLY COMING TO A FRUITION AND A 34 00:04:09,916 --> 00:04:17,323 POSITION TO CHARGE OR NOT CHARGE ABOUT A PARTICULAR THING OR NOT. AND IF WITNESSES AND POTENTIAL SUBJECTS KNEW EVERYTHING THAT 35 00:04:17,390 --> 00:04:25,231 THE INVESTIGATORS HAD PREVIOUSLY LOOKED AT AND WERE TO BE LOOK AT, IT COULD WELL CHANGE TESTIMONY, IT COULD WELL MAKE 36 00:04:25,298 --> 00:04:32,305 WITNESSES UNAVAILABLE TO US. >> AND THIS IS NOT PECULIAR TO THE TRUMP INVESTIGATIONS? >> OH, THIS IS A RULE FOR ALL 37 00:04:32,372 --> 00:04:36,242 INVESTIGATIONS. THIS IS PART OF WHAT WE CALL OUR JUSTICE MANUAL. IT'S BEEN THERE FOR PROBABLY AT 38 00:04:36,309 --> 00:04:42,982 LEAST 30 YEARS AND PROBABLY A BIT LONGER THAN THAT. >> HELP US UNDERSTAND THE TIMING. 39 00:04:43,049 --> 00:04:49,155 THESE PROSECUTIONS OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT ARE HAPPENING DURING THE CAMPAIGN. YOU COULD MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT 40 00:04:49,222 --> 00:04:59,198 IT'S THE WORST POSSIBLE TIME. >> THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HAS GENERAL PRACTICES ABOUT NOT MAKING SIGNIFICANT OVERT STEPS 41 00:04:59,265 --> 00:05:10,543 OR CHARGING WITHIN A MONTH OR SO OF AN ELECTION. WE'RE CLEARLY OUTSIDE THAT TIME FRAME IN THESE CASES. 42 00:05:10,610 --> 00:05:17,550 PROSECUTORS, SPECIAL COUNSEL, THEY FOLLOW THE FACTS AND THE LAW WHERE THEY LEAD, WHEN THEY'VE GOTTEN AN AMOUNT OF 43 00:05:17,617 --> 00:05:22,889 EVIDENCE NECESSARY TO MAKE A CHARGING DECISION AND HAVE DECIDED THAT A CHARGE IS WARRANTED, THAT'S WHEN THEY 44 00:05:22,955 --> 00:05:28,728 BRING THEIR CASES. >> THE INVESTIGATION ITSELF HAS DETERMINED THE TIMING? >> YES, EXACTLY RIGHT. 45 00:05:28,795 --> 00:05:37,136 >> YOUR CRITICS SAY THAT IT'S TIME TO RUIN MR. TRUMP'S CHANCES IN THE ELECTION. >> WELL, THAT'S ABSOLUTELY NOT 46 00:05:37,203 --> 00:05:41,641 TRUE. JUSTICE DEPARTMENT PROSECUTORS ARE NONPARTISAN. THEY DON'T ALLOW PARTISAN 47 00:05:41,708 --> 00:05:48,614 CONSIDERATIONS TO PLAY ANY ROLE IN THEIR DETERMINATIONS. >> THE PROSECUTOR IN THE TRUMP CASES IS JACK SMITH. 48 00:05:48,681 --> 00:05:55,855 HE WAS NAMED BY GARLAND TO BE SPECIAL COUNSEL. THAT'S A JOB UNDER THE REGULATIONS OF THE JUSTICE 49 00:05:55,922 --> 00:06:04,764 DEPARTMENT DESIGNED TO GIVE SMITH BROAD INDEPENDENCE FROM THE DEPARTMENT AND FROM THE WHITE HOUSE. 50 00:06:04,831 --> 00:06:11,504 >> THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF THE REGULATIONS IS THAT THE SPECIAL COUNSEL IS NOT SUBJECT TO THE DAY TO DAY SUPERVISION OF 51 00:06:11,571 --> 00:06:17,577 ANYONE IN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. >> YOU ARE NOT IN COMMUNICATION WITH THE PRESIDENT OR ANY MEMBER 52 00:06:17,643 --> 00:06:23,282 OF HIS ADMINISTRATION WITH REGARD TO THE INVESTIGATION OF FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP? >> NO, I AM NOT. 53 00:06:23,349 --> 00:06:31,457 >> IF PRESIDENT BIDEN ASKED YOU TO TAKE ACTION WITH REGARD TO THE TRUMP INVESTIGATION, WHAT WOULD YOUR REACTION BE? 54 00:06:31,524 --> 00:06:41,167 >> I AM SURE THAT THAT WILL NOT HAPPEN, BUT I WOULD NOT DO ANYTHING IN THAT REGARD. IF NECESSARY, I WOULD RESIGN. 55 00:06:41,234 --> 00:06:49,142 BUT THERE IS NO SENSE THAT ANYTHING LIKE THAT WILL HAPPEN. >> HAVE YOU EVER HAD TO TELL HIM HANDS OFF THESE INVESTIGATIONS, 56 00:06:49,208 --> 00:06:54,947 MR. PRESIDENT? >> NO, BECAUSE HE HAS NEVER TRIED TO PUT HANDS ON, ON THESE INVESTIGATIONS. 57 00:06:55,014 --> 00:07:02,722 >> SIMPLY, PRESIDENT BIDEN HIMSELF IS THE SUBJECT OF A SPECIAL COUNSEL INVESTIGATION INTO WHETHER HE IMPROPERLY HELD 58 00:07:02,789 --> 00:07:11,364 CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS AFTER HE WAS VICE PRESIDENT. HIS SON HUNTER BIDEN IS THE TARGET OF A FOUR-YEAR 59 00:07:11,430 --> 00:07:20,540 INVESTIGATION INTO HIS BUSINESS DEALS AND HIS TAXES. HE'S BEEN INDICTED FOR LYING ABOUT DRUG ABUSE WHEN HE BOUGHT 60 00:07:20,606 --> 00:07:25,578 A GUN. REPUBLICANS ACCUSE SPECIAL COUNSEL DAVID WEISS OF SLOW-WALKING THE HUNTER BIDEN 61 00:07:25,645 --> 00:07:38,991 INVESTIGATION. THE ALLEGATION IS, MR. ATTORNEY GENERAL, THAT WHAT IS DESCRIBED IN SOME QUARTERS AS THE BIDEN 62 00:07:39,058 --> 00:07:48,000 JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS TAKING IT EASY ON THE PRESIDENT'S SON. >> WELL, LOOK, THIS INVESTIGATION BEGAN UNDER DAVID 63 00:07:48,067 --> 00:07:55,341 WEISS. DAVID WEISS IS A LONG-STANDING CAREER PROSECUTOR, AND HE WAS APPOINTED BY MR. TRUMP AS A 64 00:07:55,408 --> 00:08:01,080 UNITED STATES ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF DELAWARE. I PROMISED AT MY NOMINATION HEARING THAT I WOULD CONTINUE 65 00:08:01,147 --> 00:08:07,286 HIM ON IN THAT POSITION AND THAT I WOULD NOT INTERFERE WITH THIS INVESTIGATION. >> YOU ARE NOT PARTICIPATING IN 66 00:08:07,353 --> 00:08:11,023 THOSE DECISIONS? >> NO. MR. WEISS IS MAKING THOSE DECISION. 67 00:08:11,090 --> 00:08:15,328 >> THE WHITE HOUSE IS NOT ATTEMPTING TO INFLUENCE THOSE DECISIONS? >> ABSOLUTELY NOT. 68 00:08:15,394 --> 00:08:23,436 >> AND HE SAID WE WON'T HAVE TO TAKE HIS WORD FOR IT. UNDER JUSTICE DEPARTMENT REGULATIONS, A SPECIAL COUNSEL 69 00:08:23,502 --> 00:08:32,845 MUST WRITE A FINAL REPORT. >> WHICH I WILL MAKE PUBLIC TO THE EXTENT PERMISSIBLE UNDER THE LAW. 70 00:08:32,912 --> 00:08:41,287 THAT IS REQUIRED TO EXPLAIN THE PERUSE PROSECUTIVE DECISIONS TOE PROSECUTE OR NOT PROSECUTE AND 71 00:08:41,354 --> 00:08:44,690 THEIR STRATEGIC DECISION ALONG THE WAY. USUALLY THE SPECIAL COUNSELS HAVE TESTIFIED AT THE END OF 72 00:08:44,757 --> 00:08:49,695 THEIR REPORT, AND I EXPECT THAT THAT WILL BE THE CASE HERE. >> HOW IS YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE PRESIDENT? 73 00:08:49,762 --> 00:08:58,037 IT MUST BE FROSTY. >> I HAVE A GOOD WORKING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE PRESIDENT. >> GOOD PERHAPS, BUT MAYBE NOT 74 00:08:58,104 --> 00:09:04,243 CLOSE. THE PRESIDENT ADDRESSED THE QUESTION IN AUGUST WHEN HE SPOTTED GARLAND AT A WHITE HOUSE 75 00:09:04,310 --> 00:09:07,546 EVENT. >> ATTORNEY GENERAL GARLAND, HAVEN'T SEEN YOU IN A LONG WHILE. 76 00:09:07,613 --> 00:09:11,951 GOOD TO SEE YOU. SECRETARY OF HOMELAND -- YOU THINK I'M KIDDING. I'M NOT. 77 00:09:12,018 --> 00:09:23,429 [ LAUGHTER ] >> ATTORNEY GENERAL GARLAND LEADS 115,000 EMPLOYEES, PROSECUTORS, AGENTS OF THE FBI, 78 00:09:23,496 --> 00:09:30,403 AND OTHER FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT. ADDITIONAL SECURITY IS NOW ASSIGNED TO PROTECT JUDGES AND 79 00:09:30,469 --> 00:09:39,178 PROSECUTORS AFTER THE TRUMP CASES DREW DEATH THREATS. POLITICAL VIOLENCE IS AMONG GARLAND'S GRAVEST CONCERNS. 80 00:09:39,245 --> 00:09:49,055 >> PEOPLE CAN ARGUE WITH EACH OTHER AS MUCH AS THEY WANT AND AS VOCIFEROUSLY AS THEY WANT. BUT THE ONE THING MAY NOT DO IS 81 00:09:49,121 --> 00:09:55,261 USE VIOLENCE AND THREATS OF VIOLENCE TO ALTER THE OUTCOME. AN IMPORTANT ASPECT OF THIS IS THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THEMSELVES. 82 00:09:55,328 --> 00:10:09,675 THE AMERICAN PEOPLE MUST PROTECT EACH OTHER. THEY MUST ENSURE THAT THEY TREAT EACH OTHER WITH CIVILITY AND 83 00:10:09,742 --> 00:10:16,816 KINDNESS, LISTEN TO OPPOSING VIEWS, ARGUE AS VOCIFEROUSLY AS THEY WANT, BUT REFRAIN FROM VIOLENCE AND THREATS OF 84 00:10:16,882 --> 00:10:21,220 VIOLENCE. THAT'S THE ONLY WAY THIS DEMOCRACY WILL PROVIDE. >> WHY DO YOU FEEL SO STRONGLY 85 00:10:21,287 --> 00:10:29,962 ABOUT THAT? >> WELL, I FEEL IT FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS AND NUMBER OF THINGS THAT I'VE SEEN, BUT FOR MY OWN 86 00:10:30,029 --> 00:10:45,411 FAMILY WHO FLED RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION IN EUROPE, AND SOME MEMBERS WHO DID NOT -- SURVIVE. WHEN THEY GOT TO THE UNITED 87 00:10:45,478 --> 00:10:55,921 STATES, THE UNITED STATES PROTECTED THEM. IT GUARANTEED THAT THEY COULD PRACTICE THEIR RELIGION, THAT 88 00:10:55,988 --> 00:11:03,429 THEY COULD VOTE, THAT THEY COULD DO ALL THE THINGS THEY THOUGHT A DEMOCRACY WOULD PROVIDE. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 89 00:11:03,496 --> 00:11:10,369 THIS COUNTRY AND MANY OTHER COUNTRIES, AND IT'S MY RESPONSIBILITY AND IT'S THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT'S 90 00:11:10,436 --> 00:11:17,943 RESPONSIBILITY TO ENSURE THAT THAT DIFFERENCE CONTINUES, THAT WE PROTECT EACH OTHER. >> TWO OF YOUR ANCESTORS WERE 91 00:11:18,010 --> 00:11:27,686 MURDERED IN THE HOLOCAUST. >> YES. >> IS THAT WHY YOU DEVOTED YOURSELF TO THE LAW? 92 00:11:27,753 --> 00:11:35,895 >> YES. I WOULD SAY THAT'S WHY I DEVOTED TO THE RULE OF LAW, TO PUBLIC SERVICE, TO TRYING TO ENSURE 93 00:11:35,961 --> 00:11:43,035 THAT THE RULE OF LAW GOVERNS THIS COUNTRY AND CONTINUES TO GOVERN THIS COUNTRY. >> MERRICK GARLAND HAS SPENT A 94 00:11:43,102 --> 00:11:53,279 LIFE IN THE LAW. >> MER-E-R-R-I-C-KG-A-R-L-A-N-D HE IS THE ASSOCIATE DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL. 95 00:11:53,345 --> 00:11:59,251 >> AT JUSTICE, HE OVERSAW THE OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING CASE, AN ACT OF POLITICAL TERRORISM. LATER, AFTER NEARLY TWO DECADES 96 00:11:59,318 --> 00:12:07,526 AS A FEDERAL APPEALS COURT JUDGE, HE WAS NOMINATED TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT BY PRESIDENT OBAMA, BUT REPUBLICANS STALLED 97 00:12:07,593 --> 00:12:18,337 THE NOMINATION FOR TEN MONTHS UNTIL DONALD TRUMP WAS SWORN IN. PRESIDENT-ELECT BIDEN PICKED GARLAND FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL ON 98 00:12:18,404 --> 00:12:25,444 THE SAME DAY THE CAPITOL WAS ATTACKED. THAT BECAME ONE OF THE LARGEST INVESTIGATIONS IN THE 99 00:12:25,511 --> 00:12:33,953 DEPARTMENT'S HISTORY. >> WE'VE ARRESTED AND BROUGHT CHARGES AGAINST MORE THAN 1100 PEOPLE. 100 00:12:34,019 --> 00:12:43,129 THERE ARE MORE TO COME. THE VIDEOS THAT EVERY SINGLE PERSON HAPPENED TO HAVE ON THEIR PHONES, THAT SECURITY CAMERAS 101 00:12:43,195 --> 00:12:49,902 HAD, THAT BYSTANDERS HAD, THAT THE MEDIA HAD AT THE TIME DISCLOSED FACES, SOME OF WHICH WE HAVE NOT YET BEEN ABLE TO 102 00:12:49,969 --> 00:12:54,473 CONNECT TO PEOPLE. >> YOU'RE LOOKING FOR NEW SUSPECT, NEW DEFENDANTS STILL? >> YEAH. 103 00:12:54,540 --> 00:13:00,246 THAT'S NOTE THAT THEY'RE NEW SUSPECTS, BUT THEY ARE PEOPLE THAT WE HAVEN'T FOUND YET. >> WHY DO THESE PROSECUTIONS 104 00:13:00,312 --> 00:13:08,120 MEAN SO MUCH TO YOU? >> BECAUSE THIS IS A FUNDAMENTAL ASPECT OF OUR DEMOCRACY. IF WE CAN'T ENSURE THAT THIS 105 00:13:08,187 --> 00:13:16,328 KIND OF BEHAVIOR DOESN'T RECUR, IT WILL OCCUR. THE PROSECUTIONS WE BRING ARE DETERRENTS AGAINST THAT FROM 106 00:13:16,395 --> 00:13:21,967 HAPPENING. >> GARLAND KNOWS HE WILL BE VILIFIED NO MATTER HOW THE TRUMP AND BIDEN CASES ARE DECIDED. 107 00:13:22,034 --> 00:13:29,208 HIS JOB, HE TOLD US, WAS TO TAKE THE ARROWS FOR THE DEPARTMENT. HE HAS LEARNED TO EMBRACE THE PAIN THAT COMES WITH THE JOB. 108 00:13:29,275 --> 00:13:36,549 >> THE YOUNGEST RIGHT NOW IS RYE YOT MITCHELL, FOREVER 8 MONTHS OLD. >> WE SAW THAT AT DEA 109 00:13:36,615 --> 00:13:44,256 HEADQUARTERS WHERE HE WAS SURROUNDED BY THOSE LOST TO THE OPIOID EPIDEMIC. >> THIS IS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL 110 00:13:44,323 --> 00:13:50,930 MERRICK GARLAND. >> AND THEIR GRIEVING FAMILIES, MEETING THEM, HE TOLD US, REMINDS HIM OF WHY HE FIGHTS AND 111 00:13:50,996 --> 00:13:57,102 WHOM HE IS FIGHTING FOR. >> THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND LISTENING TO US. >> I REPRESENT THE AMERICAN 112 00:13:57,169 --> 00:14:04,176 PEOPLE. I DON'T REMEMBER THE PRESIDENT. I REPRESENT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. AND LIKEWISE, I AM NOT CONGRESS' 113 00:14:04,243 --> 00:14:12,418 PROSECUTOR. I WORK FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. >> AND IF DEMOCRACY IS AN EMOTIONAL SUBJECT FOR MERRICK 114 00:14:12,484 --> 00:14:23,128 GARLAND, MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE HE HAS WITNESSED HOW SUDDENLY IT CAN BE THREATENED IN OKLAHOMA CITY AND WASHINGTON, D.C. 115 00:14:23,195 --> 00:14:31,270 WHEN THE HISTORY OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY TIME IS WRITTEN, WHAT IS THE BEST THAT MERRICK GARLAND CAN HOPE FOR? 116 00:14:31,337 --> 00:14:40,412 >> LOOK, I THINK IT'S THE BEST ANY PUBLIC SERVANT CAN HOPE FOR, THAT WE'VE DONE OUR BEST, THAT WE PASS ON A JUSTICE DEPARTMENT 117 00:14:40,479 --> 00:14:49,989 THAT CONTINUES TO PURSUE THE RULE OF LAW AND PROTECT IT. IT'S THE SAME THING THAT EVERY GENERATION HAS TO HOPE, THAT WE 118 00:14:50,055 --> 00:15:00,833 CAN PASS OUR DEMOCRACY ON IN WORKING ORDER TO THE NEXT GENERATION THAT PICKS UP THE TORCH AND IS RESPONSIBLE WHEN 119 00:15:00,899 --> 00:15:16,982 WE'RE FINISHED TO CONTINUE THAT JOB. >>> MICHAEL LEWIS HAS MADE A LITERARY CAREER FINDING 120 00:15:17,049 --> 00:15:23,222 JUMP-OFF-THE-PAGE CHARACTERS AND USING THEM TO HELP TELL COMPLICATED STORIES. AND WHAT COULD BE MORE 121 00:15:23,289 --> 00:15:27,026 COMPLICATED THAN EXPLAINING CRYPTOCURRENCY CRYPTOCURRENCY? LEWIS GAINED ALL HOURS ACCESS TO 122 00:15:27,092 --> 00:15:34,233 SAM BANKMAN-FRIED, KNOWN FOR A TIME AS THE JP MORGAN OF CRYPTO. HIS SECTOR, AS UNGOVERNED HAS HIS HAIR, BANKMAN-FRIED WAS 123 00:15:34,300 --> 00:15:40,539 WORTH MORE THAN $20 BILLION BEFORE HE TURNED 30. AN UNLIKELY CELEBRITY, HIS LIFE BRAIDED FINANCE, POLITICS, 124 00:15:40,606 --> 00:15:49,748 SPORTS, AND POP CULTURE. THEN THE EMPIRE CRUMBLED, AND TODAY BANKMAN-FRIED SITS IN JAIL ON VARIOUS FEDERAL CHARGES AND 125 00:15:49,815 --> 00:15:55,521 FACES POTENTIAL SENTENCES OF MORE THAN 100 YEARS. LEWIS, THOUGH, DIDN'T PANIC SELL. 126 00:15:55,587 --> 00:16:01,160 HE SIMPLY WENT WHERE THE STORY TOOK HIM. HIS LATEST BOOK "GOING INFINITE" COMES OUT TUESDAY, WHICH IS ALSO 127 00:16:01,226 --> 00:16:08,867 THE OPENING DAY IN THE TRIAL OF SAM BANKMAN-FRIED. >> YOU HAD SO MUCH ACCESS TO SAM BANKMAN-FRIED WRITING THIS BOOK. 128 00:16:08,934 --> 00:16:14,306 WHAT ULTIMATELY IS THE PURPOSE HERE? >> I REALIZE I HAD AN AMBITION FOR THE BOOK. 129 00:16:14,373 --> 00:16:19,378 I STARTED AS A KIND OF LETTER TO THE JURY. THERE IS GOING TO BE THIS TRIAL, AND THE LAWYERS ARE GOING TO 130 00:16:19,445 --> 00:16:25,217 TELL TWO STORIES. AND SO THERE IS A STORY WAR GOING ON IN THE COURTROOM, AND I THINK NEITHER ONE OF THOSE 131 00:16:25,284 --> 00:16:32,024 STORIES IS AS GOOD AS THE STORY I HAVE. >> MICHAEL LEWIS DIDN'T SET OUT TO WRITE THIS BOOK. 132 00:16:32,091 --> 00:16:38,397 TWO AUTUMNS AGO HE WAS AT HOME IN THE BAY AREA WHEN HE GOT A CALL FROM A FRIEND INTERESTED IN INVESTING WITH A YOUNG 133 00:16:38,464 --> 00:16:44,770 BILLIONAIRE. COULD LEWIS MEET WITH THIS WUNDERKIND AND SIZE HIM UP? SO IT WAS LEWIS BROUGHT SAM 134 00:16:44,837 --> 00:16:49,208 BANKMAN-FRIED HERE IN THE BERKELEY HILLS FOR A HIKE IN THE PARK. >> YOU GOT TO REMEMBER, I KNEW 135 00:16:49,274 --> 00:16:55,848 NOTHING ABOUT HIM. ALL I KNEW IS I WAS SUPPOSED TO EVALUATE HIS CHARACTER. AND THAT 18 MONTHS EARLIERER, HE 136 00:16:55,914 --> 00:17:02,054 HAD NOTHING. NOW HE HAD $22.5 BILLION AND WAS THE RICHEST PERSON IN THE WORLD UNDER 30. 137 00:17:02,121 --> 00:17:08,861 HE CARED ON SPENDING IT ON YACHTS, HE WAS GOING TO SPEND TO IT SAVE HUMANITY FROM EXTINCTION KIND OF THING. 138 00:17:08,927 --> 00:17:17,436 MY WHOLE WALK, MY JAW WAS ON THE FLOOR BY HERE AFTER I HEARD OF A ALL OF THAT. >> AS AN AUTHOR WHOSE STOCK IN 139 00:17:17,503 --> 00:17:23,442 TRADE IS FINDING INTERESTING CHARACTERS, WAS YOUR METER ON ALERT NOW? >> IT WAS RED ALERT. 140 00:17:23,509 --> 00:17:26,445 I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO YOU. SOMETHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO YOU. 141 00:17:26,512 --> 00:17:32,818 CAN I COME AND RIDE SHOTGUN? NOW, RIDING SHOTGUN END UPPED BEING LIKE HANGING ON FOR DEAR LIFE TO AN AUTOMOBILE THAT'S 142 00:17:32,885 --> 00:17:42,094 GOING 270 MILES AN HOUR AND TAKING EVERY HAIR PIN TURN. >> MY INSTINCT WAS WE SHOULD VERY SLOWLY BE TRICKLING OUT 143 00:17:42,161 --> 00:17:47,433 THESE POSITIONS. >> SAM BANKMAN-FRIED AND LEWIS WOULD END UP MEETING MORE THAN 100 TIMES OVER TWO YEARS, 144 00:17:47,499 --> 00:17:54,840 SPEAKING FOR COUNTLESS HOURS. AS OUR CAMERA ROLLED IN JULY, NOTE HOUSE BANKMAN-FRIED SHUFFLED CARDS AND JACKHAMMERED 145 00:17:54,907 --> 00:18:00,279 HIS LEGS AND AVOIDED EYE CONTACT. LEWIS CONSIDERS BANKMAN-FRIED THE MOST CHALLENGING AND 146 00:18:00,345 --> 00:18:06,151 FASCINATING CHARACTER HE HAS EVER ENCOUNTERED. THIS FROM AN AUTHOR WHO HAS BEEN WRITING NONFICTION SINCE THE 147 00:18:06,218 --> 00:18:08,687 '80s. >> I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT INFORMATION. >> YES. 148 00:18:08,754 --> 00:18:15,394 >> THE STORY OF SAM'S LIFE IS PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTANDING HIM, MISREADING HIM. HE IS SO DIFFERENT, HE IS SO 149 00:18:15,461 --> 00:18:22,267 UNUSUAL, I THINK IN A FUNNY WAY THE REASON I HAVE SUCH A COMPELLING STORY IS I HAVE A CHARACTER THAT I DO COME TO KNOW 150 00:18:22,334 --> 00:18:30,976 AND THE READER COMES TO KNOW, THAT THE WORLD STILL DOESN'T KNOW. >> SORRY, SOME JAPANESE YEN -- 151 00:18:31,043 --> 00:18:36,014 >> A GRADUATE OF M.I.T., BANKMAN-FRIED SAW THE WORLD IN NUMBERS, FRAMING EVERYTHING IN HIS LIFE AS A PROBABILITY 152 00:18:36,081 --> 00:18:40,652 EXERCISE, INCLUDING PHILANTHROPY. HE COMMITTED TO MAKING AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBLE SO HE COULD 153 00:18:40,719 --> 00:18:49,595 GIVE IT AWAY AS EFFICIENTLY AS POSSIBLE, GUIDED BY A SOCIAL MOVEMENT, EFFECTIVE ALTRUISM. >> WHAT IT MEANS IN SAM'S 154 00:18:49,661 --> 00:18:56,134 INSTANCE, YOU CAN GO OUT AND HAVE A CAREER WHERE YOU DO GOOD. YOU CAN GO BE A DOCTOR IN AFRICA, OR YOU CAN GO OUT AND 155 00:18:56,201 --> 00:19:01,173 MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBLE AND PAY PEOPLE TO BE DOCTORS IN AFRICA. IF YOU'RE A DOCTOR IN AFRICA, 156 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:07,212 YOU END UP SAVING A CERTAIN NUMBER OF LIVES, BUT YOU'RE ONLY ONE DOCTOR. BUT IF YOU CAN PAY 40 PEOPLE TO 157 00:19:07,279 --> 00:19:12,551 BECOME DOCTORS IN AFRICA, YOU'RE GOING TO SAVE 40 TIMES THE NUMBER OF LIVES. >> THIS IS LIKE A STRATEGY GAME. 158 00:19:12,618 --> 00:19:17,222 >> WELL, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND SAM BANKMAN-FRIED UNLESS YOU UNDERSTAND THAT HE TURNS EVERYTHING INTO A GAME. 159 00:19:17,289 --> 00:19:22,694 >> RIGHT. >> EVERYTHING IS GAMIFIED. >> BANKMAN-FRIED WORKED AS A WALL STREET TRADER BEFORE MOVING 160 00:19:22,761 --> 00:19:28,634 TO BERKELEY AT AGE 25 TO START HIS OWN TRADING FIRM, ALAMEDA RESEARCH. INSTEAD OF BUYING AND SELLING 161 00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:36,875 STOCKS OR BONDS, HE WOULD TRAFFIC IN CRYPTO, THE DIGITAL FORM OF CURRENCY NOT TIED TO A CENTRALIZED SYSTEM. 162 00:19:36,942 --> 00:19:42,714 >> THE BASIC IDEA WAS TO BE THE SMARTEST PERSON IN THE CRYPTO MARKET, TO BE THE ONE WHO DID THE KIND OF TRADING IN CRYPTO 163 00:19:42,781 --> 00:19:51,056 THAT THE SMARTEST WALL STREET TRADERS DID IN STORES, SO THESE QUAD SKILLS HE HAD ON EQUITY MARKETS HE WAS GOING TO BRING TO 164 00:19:51,123 --> 00:19:57,062 THIS NEW ASCENDING CRYPTO WORLD? >> CORRECT. >> WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CRYPTO FINANCE AND TRADITIONAL 165 00:19:57,129 --> 00:20:02,167 FINANCE? >> WELL, THE PROMISE OF CRYPTO FINANCE IS THE PROMISE OF AN ABSENCE OF INTERMEDIARIES. 166 00:20:02,234 --> 00:20:10,175 IF I AM GOING TO WIRE YOU $10,000, A BANK HAS TO DO IT. A BANK RECORDS THE TRANSACTION AROUND TAKES A SLICE OF IT. 167 00:20:10,242 --> 00:20:17,883 IF I WIRE YOU BITCOIN, I HIT A BUTTON AND YOU GET IT. SO YOU REMOVE THE INSTITUTIONS. >> COMING OUT OF THE 2008 168 00:20:17,950 --> 00:20:24,823 FINANCIAL CRISIS, CRYPTO TOOK HOLD AS AN ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT PUNK ROCK VERSION OF A FINANCIAL SYSTEM, WHICH LEWIS FINDS 169 00:20:24,890 --> 00:20:32,297 IRONIC. >> IN THE BEGINNING ESPECIALLY, IT'S A CROWD OF PEOPLE WHO ARE INCREDIBLY MISTRUSTFUL OF 170 00:20:32,364 --> 00:20:35,567 INSTITUTIONS. WHAT ATTRACTS THEM TO IT IS THEY HATE THE GOVERNMENT, THEY HATE BANKS. 171 00:20:35,634 --> 00:20:42,608 BUT THEN THEY SOMEHOW, THIS POOL OF INCREDIBLY MISTRUSTFUL PEOPLE PROCEED TO TRUST EACH OTHER IN WAYS THAT I WOULDN'T TRUST YOU. 172 00:20:42,674 --> 00:20:48,880 >> THEY'RE PARKING THEIR MONEY IN A SECTOR THAT'S UNREGULATED. THERE ARE NO PHYSICAL PROPERTIES. 173 00:20:48,947 --> 00:20:54,086 >> PROVABLY SQUIRRELY AND UNRELIABLE, OVER AND OVER. >> BUT IT'S PREDICATED ON TRUST. >> THEY ARE CHARLIE BROWN 174 00:20:54,152 --> 00:20:58,223 KICKING THE FOOTBALL. >> RIGHT. >> THEY ARE SURE THAT THIS TIME LUCY IS GOING TO HOLD IT. 175 00:20:58,290 --> 00:21:06,598 >> STILL, BANKMAN-FRIED MADE A FORTUNE AT ALAMEDA RESEARCH, AND THEN HE REALLY GOT RICH. INSTEAD OF SIMPLY TRADING, 176 00:21:06,665 --> 00:21:13,038 BANKMAN-FRIED SEIZED ON THE IDEA OF OPENING HIS OWN CRYPTOCURRENCY EXCHANGE. ONE OF THE THINGS HE NOTICES IS 177 00:21:13,105 --> 00:21:18,877 THAT ALL THE CRYPTO EXCHANGES ARE SCREWED UP IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. THERE ARE DOZENS OF THESE PLACES 178 00:21:18,944 --> 00:21:24,750 WHERE YOU CAN TRADE CRYPTO, BUT THEY'RE NOT STRUCTURED FOR A PROFESSIONAL TRADER. THE TECHNOLOGY IS BAD. 179 00:21:24,816 --> 00:21:31,790 THEY'LL LOSE THEIR CUSTOMERS' MONEY. IT'S THE WILD WEST. HE REALIZED IF YOU BUILT A 180 00:21:31,857 --> 00:21:37,295 BETTER EXCHANGE, HE WANTED TO BUILD A EXCHANGE HE COULD TRADE ON. SO HE CREATES FTX. 181 00:21:37,362 --> 00:21:42,768 AND ONCE HE CREATED IT, IT WENT BOOM. AND WHEN IT WENT BOOM, HE REALIZED WELL, THAT'S THE GOLD 182 00:21:42,834 --> 00:21:46,705 MINE. IT ACTUALLY ISN'T TRADING THE CRYPTO. >> IT'S OWNING THE CASINO. 183 00:21:46,772 --> 00:21:52,577 >> IT'S OWNING THE CASINO. HE STARTED AS A GAMBLER AND REALIZED THAT BUILDING THE BETTER CASINO IS ACTUALLY GOING 184 00:21:52,644 --> 00:21:57,516 TO BE MORE VALUABLE. >> FTX HAS SEEN EXPLOSIVE GROWTH. >> SOON, ROUGHLY $15 BILLION A 185 00:21:57,582 --> 00:22:05,223 DAY IN TRADES WERE EXECUTED ON HIS NEW EXCHANGE, FTX. >> YOU'RE SITTING IN THE MIDDLE OF THOSE TRANSACTIONS AND YOU'RE 186 00:22:05,290 --> 00:22:11,063 TAKING OUT EVEN A TINY FRACTION OF A PERCENTAGE POINT, THERE IS A LOT OF MONEY TO BE MADE. >> INDIFFERENT TO THE OUTCOME OF 187 00:22:11,129 --> 00:22:16,735 THE TRADE. >> YOU'RE TAKING NO RISK. YOU'RE TAKING NO RISK AT ALL. IT DIDN'T MATTER TO HIM WHETHER 188 00:22:16,802 --> 00:22:24,142 CRYPTO WENT UP OR WENT DOWN, AS LONG AS PEOPLE WERE TRADING CRYPTO, HE MADE MONEY. I HAD ONE VENTURE CAPITAL TOLD 189 00:22:24,209 --> 00:22:29,681 ME THAT SEVERAL THOUGHT SAM MIGHT BE THE WORLD'S FIRST TRILLIONAIRE. THEY'RE LOOKING FOR THE NEXT 190 00:22:29,748 --> 00:22:35,020 GOOGLE. THEY'RE LOOKING FOR THE NEXT AM. THEY THOUGHT FTX HAD THAT KIND OF POSSIBILITY, THAT IT HAD A 191 00:22:35,087 --> 00:22:39,524 CHANCE TO BE THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT FINANCIAL INSTITUTION IN THE WORLD. >> AS HE BEGAN ACCUMULATING 192 00:22:39,591 --> 00:22:45,297 BILLIONS AS IF THEY WERE POKEMON CARDS, BANKMAN-FRIED BEGAN ATTRACTING SOMETHING ELSE HE WASN'T ACCUSTOMED TO. 193 00:22:45,363 --> 00:22:50,435 . THERE IS A LOT OF LEVERAGE IN CRYPTO CURRENCY MARKET. >> ATTENTION. 194 00:22:50,502 --> 00:22:57,776 >> HE CHANGED NOT AT ALL. HE GOES ON TV IN HIS CARGO SHORTS AND MESSY HAIR AND HE IS PLAYING VIDEO GAMES WHILE HE IS 195 00:22:57,843 --> 00:23:02,781 ON THE AIR. >> WAIT, WAIT, HE IS PLAYING VIDEO GAMES ON THE AIR? >> YOU WOULD THINK YOUR FIRST 196 00:23:02,848 --> 00:23:07,853 TELEVISION APPEARANCE A LITTLE UPTIGHT, NERVOUS. IF YOU WATCH THE CLIP, HE IS TRYING TO WIN HIS VIDEO GAME THE 197 00:23:07,919 --> 00:23:13,658 SAME TIME HE IS ON THE AIR. >> WHETHER IT WAS HIS SMARTS, HIS FIERCE INDIFFERENCE TO APPEARANCE, OR SIMPLY HIS VAST 198 00:23:13,725 --> 00:23:20,799 WEALTH, THE BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE SUDDENLY FOUND HIM IRRESISTIBLE. >> AS HIS NET WORTH GOES UP, SO DOES HIS SOCIAL CAPITAL. 199 00:23:20,866 --> 00:23:27,139 >> YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT A ZOOM MEETING YOU WALKED IN. >> HE SAID I GOT TO GO DO A ZOOM. 200 00:23:27,205 --> 00:23:31,877 WHAT IS IT? IT'S THIS PERSON NAMED ANNA WINTOUR. HE DIDN'T KNOW WHO SHE WAS. 201 00:23:31,943 --> 00:23:37,749 >> HE HAD NO IDEA WHO SHE WAS? >> NO. >> SO I SAT OFF TO ONE SIDE WHERE SHE COULDN'T SEE AND MAINE 202 00:23:37,816 --> 00:23:48,860 AND WATCHED THIS ZOOM. >> WHAT IS ANNA WINTOUR GOING TO DO WITH A SCHLUB. >> HE IS THE WORST DRESSED IN 203 00:23:48,927 --> 00:23:55,233 THE HISTORY OF BILLIONAIRES. WHAT SHE WANTS HIM TO DO IS SPONSOR THE MET GALA, HER GREAT BALL THAT SHE THROWS EVERY YEAR, 204 00:23:55,300 --> 00:24:00,672 WHICH IS ALL ABOUT DRESS AND APPEARANCES. SAM WAS A SOCIAL EXPERIMENT. HE IS A PERSON WHO HAS NOTHING 205 00:24:00,739 --> 00:24:07,746 ALL OF THE SUDDEN HAS A SEEMINGLY INFINITE DOLLARS, WILL GIVE IT AWAY, IS UNBELIEVEDLY OPEN HANDED ABOUT IT, AND 206 00:24:07,813 --> 00:24:12,784 DOESN'T ASK A WHOLE LOT OF QUESTIONS. WHAT THAT ATTRACTS, WHO SHOWS UP WHEN THIS PERSON EXIST, 207 00:24:12,851 --> 00:24:16,021 EVERYBODY. >> EVERYONE COMES TO THE TROUGH. >> EVERYBODY COMES TO THE TROUGH. 208 00:24:16,087 --> 00:24:21,793 EVERYBODY WANTS TO BE HIS BEST FRIEND. >> FTX IS THE SAFEST AND EASIEST WAY TO SELL CRYPTO. 209 00:24:21,860 --> 00:24:28,333 >> BANKMAN-FRIED WANTED IT KNOWN THAT FTX WAS THE GO-TO PLAYER IN CRYPTO. >> HEY, IT'S SHAQUILLE O'NEAL 210 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:36,074 AND I'M EXCITED TO BE PARTNERING WITH FTX. >> HE TURNED TO THE SPORTS WORLD TO BRING LEGITIMACY AND EDGE. 211 00:24:36,141 --> 00:24:42,781 LEWIS SAW THE FTX INTERNAL MARKETING AGREEMENTS. >> HE PAID TOM BRADY $50 MILLION FOR 20 HOURS. 212 00:24:42,848 --> 00:24:50,222 HE PAID STEPH CURRY $30 MILLION FOR SAME THING FOR THREE YEARS. >> PRETTY GOOD HOURLY WAGE, HE SPENT 100 SOMETHING MILLION 213 00:24:50,288 --> 00:24:55,193 DOLLARS BUYING THE NAMING RIGHTS FOR MIAMI HEAT ARENA. >> I DON'T THINK SO. >> HE SPENT $25 MILLION MAKING A 214 00:24:55,260 --> 00:25:00,765 SUPER BOWL AD WITH LARRY DAVID. >> IT'S FTX? >> I DON'T THINK SO. >> FOR WHICH HE THEN PAID LARRY 215 00:25:00,832 --> 00:25:05,170 DAVID ANOTHER $10 MILLION. IT'S BREATHTAKING WHAT'S ON THAT LIST. >> DID ANY PEOPLE SURROUNDING 216 00:25:05,237 --> 00:25:10,075 HIM, THESE CELEBRITIES DO IT BECAUSE THEY FOUND HIM INTERESTING, OR WAS IT ALL BECAUSE HE IS WORTH $20 SOME 217 00:25:10,141 --> 00:25:15,480 BILLION? >> IT'S PROBABLY NOT FAIR FOR ME TO SPEAK FOR THEM, BUT I WILL SPEAK FOR THEM. 218 00:25:15,547 --> 00:25:22,187 TOM BRADY I THINK ADORED HIM. TOM BRADY THOUGHT HE WAS A REALLY INTERESTING PERSON. I THINK HE LIKED TO HEAR WHAT HE 219 00:25:22,254 --> 00:25:26,725 HAD TO SAY. >> WHAT'S UP, GUYS? I'M HERE WITH MY BOY STAMM FROM FTX. 220 00:25:26,791 --> 00:25:33,064 >> AND HE REALLY LIKED TOM BRADY. SAM WASN'T A BIG SPORTS PERSON. IT WAS FUNNY TO WATCH THAT 221 00:25:33,131 --> 00:25:37,068 INTERACTION. THESE TWO PEOPLE ACTUALLY GET ALONG. IT'S LIKE THE CLASS NERD AND THE 222 00:25:37,135 --> 00:25:41,339 HIGH SCHOOL QUARTERBACK. >> THE TWO TRIBES. >> THE NERD OF ALL NERDS. EVEN THE NERDS DON'T HANG OUT 223 00:25:41,406 --> 00:25:44,809 WITH THIS NERD HE IS SUCH A NERD. THE QUARTERBACK SOMEHOW LIKES HIM. 224 00:25:44,876 --> 00:25:51,883 AND HE SOMEHOW LIKES THE QUARTERBACK. >> LEWIS WRITES IN HIS BOOK THAT BANKMAN-FRIED'S PHILANTHROPIC 225 00:25:51,950 --> 00:25:57,722 AMBITIONS KEPT PACE WITH HIS WEALTH. NEVER MIND DOCTORS IN AFRICA, HE SET OUT TO CONFRONT AS WHAT HE 226 00:25:57,789 --> 00:26:04,029 SAW AS EXISTENTIAL THREATS TO ALL OF HUMANITY. >> SAM BANKMAN-FRIED ENDS UP WITH A PORTFOLIO HEAVILY 227 00:26:04,095 --> 00:26:08,767 CONCENTRATED IN TWO THINGS, PANDEMIC PREVENTION, BECAUSE THERE REALLY ARE THINGS THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE DOING, AND 228 00:26:08,833 --> 00:26:16,408 THE OTHER THING THAT MADE HIS LIST THAT WAS SO INTERESTING WAS DONALD TRUMP. HE TOOK THE VIEW THAT ALL THE 229 00:26:16,474 --> 00:26:20,645 BIG EXISTENTIAL PROBLEMS ARE GOING TO REQUIRE THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT TO BE INVOLVED TO SOLVE THEM. 230 00:26:20,712 --> 00:26:27,719 AND IF THE DEMOCRACY IS UNDERMINED, LIKE WE DON'T HAVE OUR DEMOCRACY ANYMORE, ALL THESE PROBLEMS ARE LESS LIKELY TO BE 231 00:26:27,786 --> 00:26:33,925 SOLVED. AND HE SAW TRUMP TRYING TO UNDERMINE THE DEMOCRACY, AND HE THOUGHT TRUMP BELONGS ON THE 232 00:26:33,992 --> 00:26:41,633 LIST OF EXISTENTIAL RISKS. >> TO THAT END, LEWIS WRITES THAT IN 2022, BANKMAN-FRIED MET WITH THE MOST UNLIKELY OF 233 00:26:41,700 --> 00:26:47,739 ALLIES, REPUBLICAN SENATE MINORITY LEADER MITCH McCONNELL. YOU'RE FLYING WITH SAM AND HE TELLS YOU ABOUT A MEETING HE IS 234 00:26:47,806 --> 00:26:52,677 GOING TO HAVE WITH MITCH McCONNELL? >> THE INTERESTING THING STARTS BEFORE WE GET ON THE PLANE. 235 00:26:52,744 --> 00:27:01,553 I MEET HIM AT THE AIRPORT. HE COMES TUMBLING OUT OF THE CAR IN HIS CARGO SHIRTS AND T-SHIRT. HE HAS BALLED UP IN HIS HAND, A 236 00:27:01,619 --> 00:27:08,226 BLUE SUIT. IT HAS MORE WRINKLES THAN ANY BLUE SUIT HAS EVER HAD. IT'S JAMMED INTO A BALL AND A 237 00:27:08,293 --> 00:27:13,498 SHOE PAUL FALLS OUT OF THE PILE HE HAS IN HIS ARMS. WHY DO YOU HAVE THE SUIT? MITCH McCONNELL REALLY CARES 238 00:27:13,565 --> 00:27:22,407 WHAT YOU WEAR WHEN YOU MEET WITH HIM. AND HE IS HAVING DINNER IN SIX HOURS WITH MITCH McCONNELL. 239 00:27:22,474 --> 00:27:27,679 I SAYS YOU GOT THE SUIT. YOU HAVE THE BELT? NO, NO, NO BELT. YOU HAVE A SHIRT? 240 00:27:27,746 --> 00:27:31,883 NO SHIRT. AND THE SUIT, YOU CAN'T REALLY WEAR THAT SUIT. YEAH, BUT THEY TOLD ME TO BRING 241 00:27:31,950 --> 00:27:37,088 A SUIT. >> ACCORDING TO LEWIS, BANKMAN-FRIED WANTED TO HELP McCONNELL FUND REPUBLICAN 242 00:27:37,155 --> 00:27:43,028 CANDIDATES AT ODDS WITH DONALD TRUMP. WHAT WHAT. 243 00:27:43,094 --> 00:27:50,335 >> WHAT IS THE SUBTEXT OF THIS DINNER SAM IS GOING TO WRITE TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO SUPERPAC WHICH MITCH McCONNELL 244 00:27:50,402 --> 00:27:54,906 IS GOING TO USE TO GET ELECTED PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT HOSTILE TO DEMOCRACY. >> MITCH McCONNELL HAS A LIST OF 245 00:27:54,973 --> 00:27:59,644 REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES WHO ARE SORT OF ON THE PLAYING FIELD FOR DEMOCRACY VERSUS WHAT HE DEEMED OUTSIDE? 246 00:27:59,711 --> 00:28:07,619 >> HE AND HIS PEOPLE HAD DONE THE WORK TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN ACTUAL DEEP TRUMPERS AND PEOPLE WHO WERE JUST SEEMING TO APPROVE 247 00:28:07,685 --> 00:28:14,225 OF DONALD TRUMP BUT WERE ACTUALLY WILLING TO GOVERN. >> BANKMAN-FRIED ENDED UP GIVING MULTIMILLIONS IN SUPPORT OF 248 00:28:14,292 --> 00:28:20,732 REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES. BACK IN 2020, BANKMAN-FRIED HAD RANKED AMONG JOE BIDEN'S BIGGEST DONORS. 249 00:28:20,799 --> 00:28:31,276 AS 2024 APPROACHED, HE PLANNED ON SPENDIG MORE, ALL BEIT IN TH MOST UNCONVENTIONAL WAY. ONE OF THE MOST SHOCKING 250 00:28:31,342 --> 00:28:36,314 PASSAGES IN THE BOOK CAME THAT SAM HAD LOOKED INTO PAYING DONALD TRUMP NOT TO RUN. >> THAT ONLY SHOCKS YOU IF YOU 251 00:28:36,381 --> 00:28:43,188 DON'T KNOW SAM. SAM'S THINKING WE CAN PAY DONALD TRUMP NOT TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT. LIKE HOW MUCH WOULD IT TAKE? 252 00:28:43,254 --> 00:28:48,293 >> DID HE GET AN ANSWER? >> SO HE DID GET AN ANSWER. THERE WAS A NUMBER THAT WAS KICKING AROUND, A NUMBER THAT 253 00:28:48,359 --> 00:28:53,498 WAS KICKING AROUND WHEN I WAS TALKING TO SAM ABOUT THIS WAS $5 BILLION. SAM IS NOT SURE THAT NUMBER CAME 254 00:28:53,565 --> 00:28:59,604 DIRECTLY FROM TRUMP. >> WAIT, SO SAM IS LOOKING INTO PAYING TRUMP NOT TO RUN, AND HE ACTUALLY -- IT MIGHT NOT HAVE 255 00:28:59,671 --> 00:29:07,078 COME FROM TRUMP HIMSELF, BUT HE ACTUALLY GOT A PRICE? >> HE GOT ONE ANSWER, YES. THE QUESTION SAM HAD WAS NOT 256 00:29:07,145 --> 00:29:14,285 JUST HIS $5 BILLION ENOUGH TO PAY TRUMP NOT TO RUN, BUT WAS IT LEGAL. >> WHY DIDN'T THIS HAPPEN? 257 00:29:14,352 --> 00:29:20,058 WHY DIDN'T HE FOLLOW THROUGH? >> WELL, THEY WERE STILL HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS WHEN FTX BLEW UP. 258 00:29:20,125 --> 00:29:24,896 WHY DIDN'T IT HAPPEN? HE DIDN'T HAVE $5 BILLION ANYMORE. >> APPROACHED FOR COMMENT BY "60 259 00:29:24,963 --> 00:29:30,101 MINUTES," NEITHER FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP NOR SENATOR McCONNELL RESPONDED. LAST NOVEMBER IN A MATTER OF 260 00:29:30,168 --> 00:29:37,742 DAYS, MEGA BILLIONAIRE SAM BANKMAN-FRIED LOST VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING, AND HE SOON FACED AN ONSLAUGHT OF FEDERAL FRAUD 261 00:29:37,809 --> 00:29:55,693 CHARGES. WHEN WE RETURN, THE FALL OF SAM BANKMAN-FRIED. >>> METEORIC AS THE RISE OF SAM 262 00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:02,800 BANKMAN-FRIED WAS, THE FALL CAME FASTER STILL. IN THE SPAN OF DAYS, A CELEBRITY MULTIBILLIONAIRE BECAME A 263 00:30:02,867 --> 00:30:08,072 PARIAH, HIS WEALTH LARGELY EVAPORATED AS FEDERAL PROSECUTORS MOUNTED A CASE AGAINST HIM. 264 00:30:08,139 --> 00:30:15,613 IN HIS NEW BOOK OUT THIS WEEK, MICHAEL LEWIS DETAILS THE CRASH AND LEAVES IT TO READERS TO DECIDE IF SAM BANKMAN-FRIED WAS 265 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:26,257 A CRYPTOCURRENCY CONMAN IN CARGO SHORTS OR A REALLY SMART GUY SINGULARLY ILL-EQUIPPED TO RUN AND MANAGE A BUSINESS. 266 00:30:26,324 --> 00:30:32,964 >> BY SPRING OF 2022, SAM BANKMAN-FRIED HAD PLANTED HIS FLAG IN THE BAHAMAS. HE DECIDED TO MOVE HIS 267 00:30:33,031 --> 00:30:40,205 HIGH-FLYING CRYPTOCURRENCY EXCHANGE EXCHANGE FTX TO THE IESHLGSDS NOT FOR THE BEACHES BUT FOR THE 268 00:30:40,271 --> 00:30:45,777 FRIENDLY REGULATORY CLIMATE. WITH THE PRIME MINISTER IN HAND, THEY PUT SHOVELS IN THE GROUND FOR NEW HEADQUARTERS. 269 00:30:45,843 --> 00:30:51,749 BANKMAN-FRIED OPENLY DISCUSSED PAYING OFF THE COUNTRY'S $9 BILLION NATIONAL DEBT. BUT THIS POINT, MICHAEL LEWIS 270 00:30:51,816 --> 00:30:58,590 AND BANKMAN-FRIED HAD A DYNAMIC THAT WENT BEYOND AUTHOR/SUBJECT. >> HE STARTED USING ME AS A SOUNDING BOARD. 271 00:30:58,656 --> 00:31:07,332 >> FOR WHAT? >> FOR DECISIONS HE WAS MAKING. SHOULD I JOIN ELON MUSK IN BUYING TWITTER, DOWN. 272 00:31:07,398 --> 00:31:12,103 >> WHAT DID YOU TELL HIM? MOSTLY MY ANSWERS WERE NO, NO, NO. AND HE WOULD LOOK AT ME AND SAY 273 00:31:12,170 --> 00:31:20,445 YOU'RE A BORING GROWN-UP. >> BANKMAN-FRIED, NOW 31 TOLD LEWIS, NOW 62, THAT ANYONE OLDER THAN 45 WAS USELESS. 274 00:31:20,511 --> 00:31:26,084 BUT LEWIS NOTED IF EVER THERE WERE A CORPORATE LEADER IN NEED OF ADULT INPUT TO MANAGE 400 EMPLOYEES, IT WAS SAM 275 00:31:26,150 --> 00:31:33,291 BANKMAN-FRIED. WHAT KIND OF A MANAGER WAS HE? >> HORRIBLE. EVEN HIS BEST FRIENDS INSIDE THE 276 00:31:33,358 --> 00:31:39,163 COMPANY SAID SAM IS JUST NOT BUILT TO MANAGE PEOPLE. >> HAD SAM MANAGED ANYTHING BEFORE? 277 00:31:39,230 --> 00:31:45,203 >> HIS SOLE EXPERIENCE IN LEADERSHIP WAS RUNNING PUZZLE HUNTS FOR MATH NERDS IN HIGH SCHOOL. 278 00:31:45,270 --> 00:31:52,577 AND ACTUALLY THOUGHT DEEP DOWN IF YOU ASKED HIM, PEOPLE SHOULDN'T NEED TO BE MANAGED. SO HE PROCEEDED TO ACT ON THAT, 279 00:31:52,644 --> 00:31:57,115 AND BASICALLY DIDN'T MANAGE THEM. >> IS THERE ANY CHECKS AND BALANCES HAPPENING IN THIS 280 00:31:57,181 --> 00:32:04,422 ENVIRONMENT THEN? >> WELL, WHAT CHECKS AND BALANCES WOULD YOU IMAGINE THERE MIGHT BE IN A CORPORATION? 281 00:32:04,489 --> 00:32:08,660 >> CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER. >> NO. >> HR DEPARTMENT? >> NO. 282 00:32:08,726 --> 00:32:13,698 >> COME LINES OFFICE? >> OH, NO, NO. THERE WAS NO BOARD OF DIRECTORS. OR RATHER, I ASKED SAM, WHO IS 283 00:32:13,765 --> 00:32:17,468 YOUR BOARD OF DIRECTORS? AND HE SAID WE DON'T REALLY HAVE ONE. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? 284 00:32:17,535 --> 00:32:22,440 EVERYONE HAS ONE. HE SAYS THERE ARE TWO OTHER PEOPLE ON SOMETHING CALLED A BOARD OF DIRECTORS, BUT IT'S 285 00:32:22,507 --> 00:32:26,444 CHANGE AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW THEIR NAMES. AND THEIR JOB IS TO DOCK YOU SIGN. 286 00:32:26,511 --> 00:32:31,783 >> HE DIDN'T KNOW THE NAME OF THE BOARD DIRECTORS? >> HE DIDN'T KNOW WHO WAS ON IT. >> HE IS RUNNING THIS LIKE A 287 00:32:31,849 --> 00:32:37,221 LEMONADE STAND AND DOING ENOUGH VOLUME OF BUSINESS THIS COULD BE A PUBLICLY TRADED COMPANY. >> IF IT WAS A PUBLICLY TRADED 288 00:32:37,288 --> 00:32:42,593 COMPANY IT WOULD BE A PUBLICLY TRADED COMPANY WORTH $40 BILLION. IT WAS ALL SAM'S WORLD, AND 289 00:32:42,660 --> 00:32:50,868 THERE WAS NOBODY THERE TO SAY DON'T DO THAT. >> FTX PURCHASED A $30 MILLION EXECUTIVE PENTHOUSE IN A BAHAMAS 290 00:32:50,935 --> 00:32:57,241 RESORT FLUSH WITH AN EXCLUSIVE MARINA. IT WAS LOST ON SAM, WHO WORKED FEVERISHLY IN THE OFFICE AND 291 00:32:57,308 --> 00:33:04,582 SLEPT ON A BEANBAG CHAIR. BUT THERE WAS ANOTHER REASON HE AVOIDED THE LUX PENTHOUSE. HIS GIRLFRIEND, CAROLINE 292 00:33:04,649 --> 00:33:10,154 ELLISON, A FORMER WALL STREET TRADER HIMSELF HAD KICKED HIM OUT. COMPOUNDING MATTER, HE HAD PUT 293 00:33:10,221 --> 00:33:17,428 HER IN CHARGE OF RUNNING ALAMEDA RESEARCH, BANKMAN-FRIED'S PRIVATELY HELD TRADING FIRM. SO THE ROMANCE BETWEEN SAM AND 294 00:33:17,495 --> 00:33:25,103 CAROLINE GOES SIDEWAYS. HOW DOES THAT IMPACT WHAT HAPPENS TO FTX AND ALAMEDA RESEARCH? 295 00:33:25,169 --> 00:33:31,142 >> COINCIDENTALLY, THEY HAVE A FALLING OUT WHERE THEY'RE NOT SPEAKING TO EACH OTHER. SHE IS NOT SPEAKING TO HIM AT 296 00:33:31,209 --> 00:33:35,813 PRECISELY THE TIME CRYPTO COLLAPSE. >> EXPLAIN WHY THAT'S A PROBLEM? >> IT'S A PROBLEM BECAUSE 297 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:45,523 ALAMEDA RESEARCH IS ONE OF THE TRADERS ON FTX. >> TRANSLATION? THOUGH BANKMAN-FRIED OWNED THE 298 00:33:45,590 --> 00:33:50,561 FTX EXCHANGE, HE WAS ALSO TRADING CRYPTO ON FTX THROUGH HIS OTHER BUSINESS, ALAMEDA RESEARCH. 299 00:33:50,628 --> 00:33:55,666 >> AND HE WAS GAMBLING IN HIS OWN CASINO. AND IT CREATED CONFLICTS OF INTEREST. 300 00:33:55,733 --> 00:34:00,271 >> SO HE OWNS THE CASINO, BUT HE IS STILL GAMBLING? >> YES. HE DIDN'T STOP GAMBLING. 301 00:34:00,338 --> 00:34:07,311 >> CRYPTO IS DESTABILIZED. >> THE VALUE OF CRYPTO HAD BEEN DEVALUED THROUGHOUT THE CENTER OF 2022. 302 00:34:07,378 --> 00:34:19,023 THEN CAME A ONE-TWO PUNCH, A LEAK OF ALAMEDA'S UNFLATTERING BALANCE SHEET IN EARLY NOVEMBER, AND DAYS LATER, CHENG PENG ZIAO 303 00:34:19,090 --> 00:34:28,399 HEAD OF A RIVAL TWITTER TRIGGERED A CLASSIC PANIC RUN DIGITAL STYLE ON FTX. HOW FAST WAS MONEY FLOWING OUT 304 00:34:28,466 --> 00:34:32,136 OF FTX? >> IN THE RUN, A BILLION DOLLARS WAS LEAVING. >> A BILLION DOLLARS A DAY, THIS 305 00:34:32,203 --> 00:34:37,842 THING IS GUSHING. >> IT UNRAVELS BECAUSE THE DEPOSITORS AT FTX WANT THEIR MONEY BACK AND IT'S NOT ALL 306 00:34:37,909 --> 00:34:44,482 THERE. >> IT WASN'T ALL THERE IN LARGE PART BECAUSE THE INVESTORS MONEY INTENDED FOR FTX HAD WOUND UP IN 307 00:34:44,549 --> 00:34:54,091 BANKMAN-FRIED'S PRIVATELY HELD FUND, ALAMEDA RESEARCH, MORE THAN $8 BILLION. DO YOU THINK HE KNOWINGLY STOLE 308 00:34:54,158 --> 00:35:01,799 CUSTOMERS' MONEY, SAM? >> PUT THAT WAY, NO. THERE IS ANOTHER SIDE OF THIS. IN THE VERY BEGINNING, IF YOU 309 00:35:01,866 --> 00:35:08,139 WERE A CRYPTO TRADE THEY'RE WANTED TO TRADE ON FTX AND WANTED TO SEND DOLLARS OR YEN OR EUROS ON TO THE EXCHANGE SO YOU 310 00:35:08,206 --> 00:35:15,613 COULD BUY CRYPTO, FTX COULDN'T GET BANK ACCOUNTS. SO ALAMEDA RESEARCH, WHICH COULD GET BANK ACCOUNTS CREATED BANK 311 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:22,053 ACCOUNTS FOR PEOPLE TO SEND MONEY INTO SO THAT IT WOULD GO TO FTX. BUT IT WAS HELD IN ALAMEDA 312 00:35:22,119 --> 00:35:29,594 RESEARCH. ALAMEDA RESEARCH BANK ACCOUNTS. AND 8 BILLION SOMETHING DOLLARS PILES UP INSIDE ALAMEDA RESEARCH 313 00:35:29,660 --> 00:35:36,067 THAT BELONGS TO FTX CUSTOMERS THAT NEVER GETS MOVED. >> IT NEVER GETS TRANSFERRED OVER? 314 00:35:36,133 --> 00:35:40,505 >> NEVER GETS TRANSFERRED. >> THAT SOUNDS LIKE A PROBLEM. >> IT'S A HUGE PROBLEM. >> WHAT'S THE TOUGHEST QUESTION 315 00:35:40,571 --> 00:35:45,743 YOU THINK SAM IS GOING TO HAVE TO ANSWER. >> HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT $8 BILLION THAT'S NOT YOURS IS IN 316 00:35:45,810 --> 00:35:49,780 YOUR PRIVATE FUND? I MEAN, REALLY, HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW? EXPLAIN. 317 00:35:49,847 --> 00:35:55,686 $8 BILLION IS IN YOUR PRIVATE FUND THAT BELONGS TO OTHER PEOPLE, AND YOU'RE SAYING YOU DIDN'T KNOW. 318 00:35:55,753 --> 00:35:59,757 PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW THAT IS POSSIBLE. >> DID YOU DO THAT? >> YEAH, I DID. 319 00:35:59,824 --> 00:36:05,730 >> WHAT DID HE SAY? >> YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHEN IT WENT IN THERE, I THOUGHT IT DOES A ROUNDING ERROR. 320 00:36:05,796 --> 00:36:09,600 >> I CAN SEE PEOPLE WATCHING THIS THING COME ON, GUYS. THIS IS ELIZABETH HOLMES IN CARGO SHORT. 321 00:36:09,667 --> 00:36:17,542 >> RIGHT. >> AND A RUSE, STONE FALL FOR THE SHTICK, BAD ACTOR. >> IT IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN 322 00:36:17,608 --> 00:36:23,014 SUPPLYING PHONY MEDICAL INFORMATION TO PEOPLE THAT MIGHT KILL THEM. IN THIS CASE WHAT YOU'RE DOING 323 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:29,654 IS POSSIBLY LOSING MONEY THAT BELONGED TO CRYPTO SPECULATORS IN THE BAHAMAS ON THE OTHER HAND, HE SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE 324 00:36:29,720 --> 00:36:34,825 THAT. >> EARLY ON THE MORNING OF SEPTEMBER 11th, SAM BANKMAN-FRIED RELUCTANTLY 325 00:36:34,892 --> 00:36:41,599 DOCUSIGNED FTX INTO BANKRUPTCY. IT HAD TAKEN FIVE DAYS FOR FTX TO IMPLODE. >> YOU GO BACK TO THE BAHAMAS AS 326 00:36:41,666 --> 00:36:47,038 POMPEII IS FALLING. WHAT DID YOU SEE WHEN YOU LANDED? >> I GOT BACK THE DAY ON THE 327 00:36:47,104 --> 00:36:51,375 FRIDAY OF THE COLLAPSE. IT WAS THE AFTERNOON THAT SAM HAD SIGNED THE BANKRUPTCY PAPERS. 328 00:36:51,442 --> 00:36:59,016 AND BY THEN, THEY DID A MASS EXODUS. MOST OF THE EMPLOYEES HAD FLED, AND FLED IN SUCH A WAY THAT KIND 329 00:36:59,083 --> 00:37:03,754 OF RIDICULOUS WAY. THEY HAD TAKEN THE COMPANY CARS AND DITCHED THEM AT THE AIRPORT WITH THE KEYS INSIDE. 330 00:37:03,821 --> 00:37:07,291 >> THEY WERE GOING TO GET THE HELL OUT. >> NOBODY KNEW WHAT HAD HAPPENED, BUT THEY WERE JUST 331 00:37:07,358 --> 00:37:13,130 SCARED THAT THEY WERE GOING TO BE DETAINED BY THE LOCAL AUTHORITIES. WE DROVE INTO THE LOT, AND SAM 332 00:37:13,197 --> 00:37:20,638 BANKMAN-FRIED IS WALKING LOOPS AROUND THE PARKING LOT. HE HAD BEEN BROUGHT OVER THERE EARLIER TO BE INTERVIEWED BY 333 00:37:20,705 --> 00:37:25,476 BAHAMAS' AUTHORITIES, AND NOBODY HAD GIVEN HIM A RIDE HOME, AND HE WAS JUST SITTING THERE ALL ALONE. 334 00:37:25,543 --> 00:37:31,816 >> HOW DO YOU DIVORCE MICHAEL LEWIS THE EMPATHETIC HUMAN BEING FROM MICHAEL LEWIS THE JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR WHO 335 00:37:31,882 --> 00:37:38,055 RECOGNIZES WHAT A THIRD ACT THIS IS? PRETTY DRAMA, RIGHT? >> IF I WERE A BETTER PERSON, I 336 00:37:38,122 --> 00:37:44,095 WOULD HAVE BEEN DEEPLY DISTRESSED BY ALL OF THIS. IT TOOK ABOUT A NANOSECOND BEFORE I THOUGHT OH MY GOD, THIS 337 00:37:44,161 --> 00:37:52,036 IS AN INCREDIBLE STORY. >> A MONTH LATER, BANKMAN-FRIED WAS ARRESTED IN THE BAHAMAS AND EXTRADITED TO NEW YORK TO FACE 338 00:37:52,103 --> 00:37:58,976 FEDERAL CHARGES THAT HE HAD FRAUDULENTLY USED CUSTOMER DEPOSITS TO FINANCE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF VENTURE CAPITAL 339 00:37:59,043 --> 00:38:03,781 INVESTMENT, REAL ESTATE PURCHASES, AND POLITICAL DONATIONS. WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO SOMEONE 340 00:38:03,848 --> 00:38:10,855 WHO HEARS THIS AND SAYS IT'S A FUN STORY AND IT'S CRYPTO IN THE BAHAMAS, BUT THIS IS THE OLDEST ARCHITECTURE OF A FINANCIAL 341 00:38:10,921 --> 00:38:16,827 COLLAPSE THAT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR CENTURIES? >> THIS ISN'T A PONZI SCHEME. WHEN YOU THINK OF A PONZI 342 00:38:16,894 --> 00:38:20,598 SCHEME, I DON'T KNOW, BERNIE MADOFF. THE PROBLEM IS THERE IS NO REAL BUSINESS THERE. 343 00:38:20,665 --> 00:38:26,504 THE DOLLAR COMING IN IS BEING USED TO PAY THE DOLLAR GOING OUT. AND IN THIS CASE, THEY ACTUALLY 344 00:38:26,570 --> 00:38:33,644 HAD A GREAT REAL BUSINESS. IF NO ONE HAD EVER CAST ASPERSIONS ON THE BUSINESS, IF THERE HASN'T BEEN A RUN ON 345 00:38:33,711 --> 00:38:42,687 CUSTOMER DEPOSITS, THEY'D STILL BE SITTING THERE MAKING TONS OF MONEY. >> INSIDE THE BELTWAY IN THE 346 00:38:42,753 --> 00:38:46,791 HOLLYWOOD HILLS AND IN SPORTS ARENAS, SUDDENLY, IF PREDICTABLY, IT WAS SAM BANK MAN WHO? 347 00:38:46,857 --> 00:38:52,563 >> HE BECOMES TOXIC, LIKE NOBODY WANTS TO TALK TO HIM. HE HAS NO FRIENDS. YOU WATCHED EVERYBODY WHO RUSHED 348 00:38:52,630 --> 00:38:56,333 IN RUSH OUT. >> HOW DID TOM BRADY REACT TO THIS? >> THE FIRST REACTION WAS 349 00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:00,004 SADNESS. HE REALLY, REALLY LIKED HIM, AND HE REALLY LIKED THE HOPE THAT HE BROUGHT. 350 00:39:00,071 --> 00:39:05,476 A LOT OF PEOPLE WANTED THERE TO BE A SAM, YOU KNOW. THERE IS STILL A SAM BANKMAN-FRIED-SHAPED HOLE IN THE 351 00:39:05,543 --> 00:39:10,081 WORLD THAT NOW NEEDS FILLING THAT CHARACTER WOULD BE VERY USEFUL RIGHT NOW. >> WHAT HE REPRESENTED? 352 00:39:10,147 --> 00:39:16,787 >> WHAT HE WANTED TO DO WITH THE RESOURCES. AND BRADY WAS I THINK CRUSHED, I THINK AS TIME HAS GONE BY AND HE 353 00:39:16,854 --> 00:39:23,861 CEASED TO GET A REALLY GOOD EXPLANATION ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENED, I THINK HE'S JUST LIKE HE TRICKED ME. 354 00:39:23,928 --> 00:39:30,735 I'M ANGRY, I DON'T WANT TO HAVE SIGNIFICANT TO DO WITH IT ANYMORE. >> STARTING IN DECEMBER, LEWIS 355 00:39:30,801 --> 00:39:40,544 BEGAN DRIVING THE 45 MILES FROM BERKELEY TO STANFORD, WHERE BANKMAN-FRIED WAS LIVING WITH HIS PARENTS WHO HAVE ALSO BEEN 356 00:39:40,611 --> 00:39:45,249 ENSNARED IN LEGAL PROCEEDINGS TIED TO FTX. OUT ON BAIL BUT WEARING AN ANKLE MONITOR, HE LEFT THE DOOR OPEN 357 00:39:45,316 --> 00:39:50,921 FOR LEWIS SO THEY COULD CONTINUE THEIR CONVERSATIONS. WE ANTICIPATED SPEAKING WITH BANKMAN-FRIED IN AUGUST, BUT THE 358 00:39:50,988 --> 00:39:59,263 JUDGE IN HIS CASE INSTITUTED A GAG ORDER, AND THEN PUT HIM IN A BROOKLYN JAIL FOR VIOLATING TERMS OF HIS RELEASE. 359 00:39:59,330 --> 00:40:03,501 BANKMAN-FRIED HAS PLEAD NOT GUILTY. >> HE GENUINELY THINKS HE IS INNOCENT. 360 00:40:03,567 --> 00:40:10,007 I CAN TELL YOU HIS STATE OF MIND FOUR OR FIVE MONTHS AGO. IT'S LIKE IF YOU OFFERED ME PLEAD GUILTY AND DO SIX MONTHS 361 00:40:10,074 --> 00:40:15,546 OF HOUSE ARREST, I'D STILL SAY NO. >> WHAT DO YOU SUSPECT HIS BIGGEST FEAR IS IF HE HAS TO GO 362 00:40:15,613 --> 00:40:21,852 TO PRISON? >> NOT HAVING THE INTERNET. NOW THAT SOUNDS CRAZY, BUT I DO THINK IF HE HAD THE INTERNET, HE 363 00:40:21,919 --> 00:40:28,025 COULD SURVIVE JAIL FOREVER. WITHOUT HAVING A CONSTANT STREAM OF INFORMATION TO REACT TO, I THINK HE MAY GO MAD. 364 00:40:28,092 --> 00:40:39,003 IF YOU GAVE SAM BANKMAN-FRIED A CHOICE, THIS IS QUITE SERIOUS, OF LIVING IN A $39 MILLION PENTHOUSE IN THE BAHAMAS WITHOUT 365 00:40:39,069 --> 00:40:45,576 THE INTERNET OR THE METROPOLITAN DETENTION CENTER IN BROOKLYN WITH THE INTERNET, THERE IS NO QUESTION IN MY MIND HE WOULD 366 00:40:45,643 --> 00:40:53,450 TAKE THE JAIL. >> MICHAEL LEWIS HAS NEVER BEFORE WRITTEN SOMETHING THAT DOVETAILS SO DRAMATICALLY WITH 367 00:40:53,517 --> 00:41:04,628 THE SENSATIONALIZED NEWS EVENT. LEWIS' BOOK "GOING INFINITE" COMES OUT TUESDAY, THE SAME DAY SAM BANKMAN-FRIED'S TRIAL 368 00:41:04,695 --> 00:41:11,402 BEGINS. HE MADE A MOCKERY OF CRYPTO IN THE ICE OF MANY BECAUSE HE WAS TAKING AWAY THE CREDIBILITY OF 369 00:41:11,468 --> 00:41:15,873 ALTRUISM. WHO DO YOU SAY? >> EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS TRUE. IT'S MORE INTERESTING THAN THAT. 370 00:41:15,940 --> 00:41:20,110 EVERY CAUSE HE SOUGHT TO SERVE, HE DAMAGED. EVERY CAUSE HE SOUGHT TO FIGHT, HE HELPED. 371 00:41:20,177 --> 00:41:26,116 HE IS A PERSON WHO SET OUT IN LIFE TO MAXIMIZE THE CONSEQUENCES OF HIS ACTIONS, NEVER MIND THE INTENT, AND HE 372 00:41:26,183 --> 00:41:38,462 HAD EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE EFFECTS OF THE ONES HE SET OUT TO HAVE. SO IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE HIS LIFE IS A CRUEL JOKE. 373 00:41:38,529 --> 00:41:44,401 >> MICHAEL LEWIS ON WHY HE NEARLY STOPPED WRITING AFTER HIS DAUGHTER'S DEATH. >> I DIDN'T KNOW IF I EVER 374 00:41:44,468 --> 00:41:57,748 WANTED TO WRITE AGAIN. SPONSORE UNITEDHEALTHCARE, THERE FOR WHAT MATTERS. >>> IF YOU HAVE SUNDIN WERE "60 375 00:41:57,815 --> 00:42:06,190 MINUTES," NEXT WEEK THERE WILL BE TIME FOR AN EXTRA HELPING. FOLLOWING OUR USUAL THREE STORIES, WE'LL HAVE AN ALL NEW 376 00:42:06,257 --> 00:42:10,561 TWO-PART EDITION. WE'LL TRAVEL TO TEXAS, WHERE A REVOLUTIONARY PROJECT IS BUILDING HOUSING WITH 3-D 377 00:42:10,628 --> 00:42:19,236 PRINTERS. >> LOOK, LESLEY, THAT'S A LITTLE SKINNY. WILL YOU PRESS THE PLUS 1 REAL 378 00:42:19,303 --> 00:42:23,107 QUICK? DONE. YOU JUST INCREASED THE BEAD SIZE INCREMENTALLY. 379 00:42:23,173 --> 00:42:31,615 >> AND IT DOESN'T END WITH TEXAS OR EVEN PLANET EARTH. NASA HAS PLANS FOR 3-D PRINTING LANDING PADS, ROADS, AND 380 00:42:31,682 --> 00:42:38,422 EVENTUALLY HUMAN HABITATS ON THE MOON. I'M LESLEY STAHL. WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK WITH