1
00:00:12,412 --> 00:00:17,117
>>> HE'S THE COMPUTER SCIENTIST
WHO'S KNOWN AS THE GODFATHER OF
AI.
SO WHAT DOES HE KNOW THAT WE

2
00:00:17,183 --> 00:00:22,455
DON'T?
>> I CAN'T SEE A PATH THAT
GUARANTEES SAFETY.
WE'RE ENTERING A PERIOD OF GREAT

3
00:00:22,522 --> 00:00:26,259
UNCERTAINTY, WHERE WE'RE DEALING
WITH THINGS WE'VE NEVER DEALT
WITH BEFORE.
AND WE CAN'T AFFORD TO GET IT

4
00:00:26,326 --> 00:00:32,532
WRONG WITH THESE THINGS.
>> CAN'T AFFORD TO GET IT WRONG,
WHY?
>> WELL, BECAUSE THEY MIGHT TAKE

5
00:00:32,599 --> 00:00:38,371
OVER.
>> THE FORMER CHAIRMAN OF THE
JOINT CHIEFS, MARK MILLEY,
FAMOUSLY CLASHED WITH PRESIDENT

6
00:00:38,438 --> 00:00:47,414
TRUMP.
BUT, FOR THE GENERAL, A MORE
IMMEDIATE BATTLE IS FOR AMERICA
TO CONTINUE FUNDING THE WAR IN

7
00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:52,185
UKRAINE.
>> WITH ALL OF THE ISSUES FACING
AMERICANS AT HOME, WHY IS THIS
WORTH IT?

8
00:00:52,252 --> 00:00:56,990
>> IF UKRAINE LOSES AND PUTIN
WINS, I THINK YOU WOULD BE --
CERTAINLY INCREASING IF NOT
DOUBLING YOUR DEFENSE BUDGET IN

9
00:00:57,056 --> 00:01:01,294
THE YEARS AHEAD.
AND YOU WILL INCREASE THE
PROBABILITY OF A GREAT POWER WAR
IN THE NEXT 10 TO 15 YEARS.

10
00:01:01,361 --> 00:01:06,633
I THINK IT WOULD BE A VERY
DANGEROUS SITUATION IF PUTIN'S
ALLOWED TO WIN.
>> SHOWTIME, BABY!

11
00:01:06,699 --> 00:01:12,472
>> RICH PAUL'S RISE TO SUPERSTAR
SPORTS AGENT...
>> IT'S DRAFT DAY, ANYTHING CAN
HAPPEN.

12
00:01:12,539 --> 00:01:18,845
>> IS ONE OF THE MOST
INTERESTING JOURNEYS WE HAVE
EVER FOLLOWED.
FROM YOUNG HUSTLER SHOOTING DICE

13
00:01:18,912 --> 00:01:22,549
IN CLEVELAND...
>> A SLOW DAY WAS A THOUSAND
DOLLARS.
>> TO REPRESENTING NBA ROYALTY

14
00:01:22,615 --> 00:01:27,887
AND BREAKING RECORDS NEGOTIATING
THEIR CONTRACTS.
HE COUNTS LeBRON JAMES AS A BEST
FRIEND...AND, OH, HE DATES

15
00:01:27,954 --> 00:01:37,464
ADELE.
>> I'M LESLEY STAHL.
>> I'M BILL WHITAKER.
>> I'M SHARYN ALFONSI.

16
00:01:37,530 --> 00:01:44,337
>> I'M JON WERTHEIM.
>> I'M CECILIA VEGA.
>> I'M NORAH O'DONNELL.
>> I'M SCOTT PELLEY.

17
00:01:44,404 --> 00:01:49,309
THOSE STORIES AND MORE TONIGHT
ON THIS SPECIAL 90-MINUTE
EDITION OF "60 MINUTES."

18
00:01:55,815 --> 00:02:04,290
>>> WHETHER YOU THINK ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE WILL SAVE THE WORLD
OR END IT, YOU HAVE GEOFFREY
HINTON TO THANK.

19
00:02:04,357 --> 00:02:12,799
HINTON HAS BEEN CALLED "THE
GODFATHER OF AI."
A BRITISH COMPUTER SCIENTIST
WHOSE CONTROVERSIAL IDEAS HELPED

20
00:02:12,866 --> 00:02:20,773
MAKE ADVANCED ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE POSSIBLE AND, SO,
CHANGED THE WORLD.
HINTON BELIEVES THAT AI WILL DO

21
00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:30,316
ENORMOUS GOOD.
BUT, TONIGHT, HE HAS A WARNING.
HE SAYS THAT AI SYSTEMS MAY BE
MORE INTELLIGENT THAN WE KNOW,

22
00:02:30,383 --> 00:02:37,223
AND THERE'S A CHANCE THE
MACHINES COULD TAKE OVER.
WHICH MADE US ASK THE QUESTION.
>> DOES HUMANITY KNOW WHAT IT'S

23
00:02:37,290 --> 00:02:51,037
DOING?
>> NO.
I THINK WE'RE MOVING INTO A
PERIOD WHEN FOR THE FIRST TIME

24
00:02:51,104 --> 00:02:55,808
EVER WE MAY HAVE THINGS MORE
INTELLIGENT THAN US.
>> YOU BELIEVE THEY CAN
UNDERSTAND?

25
00:02:55,875 --> 00:03:00,680
>> YES.
>> YOU BELIEVE THEY ARE
INTELLIGENT?
>> YES.

26
00:03:00,747 --> 00:03:06,486
>> YOU BELIEVE THESE SYSTEMS
HAVE EXPERIENCES OF THEIR OWN
AND CAN MAKE DECISIONS BASED ON
THOSE EXPERIENCES?

27
00:03:06,553 --> 00:03:11,824
>> IN THE SAME SENSE AS PEOPLE
DO, YES.
>> ARE THEY CONSCIOUS?
>> I THINK THEY PROBABLY DON'T

28
00:03:11,891 --> 00:03:16,062
HAVE MUCH SELF-AWARENESS AT
PRESENT.
SO, IN THAT SENSE, I DON'T THINK
THEY'RE CONSCIOUS.

29
00:03:16,129 --> 00:03:20,300
>> WILL THEY HAVE
SELF-AWARENESS, CONSCIOUSNESS?
>> OH, YES.
>> YES?

30
00:03:20,366 --> 00:03:24,604
>> OH, YES.
I THINK THEY WILL, IN TIME.
>> AND SO HUMAN BEINGS WILL BE
THE SECOND MOST INTELLIGENT

31
00:03:24,671 --> 00:03:33,046
BEINGS ON THE PLANET?
>> YEAH.
>> GEOFFREY HINTON TOLD US THE
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE HE SET

32
00:03:33,112 --> 00:03:42,121
IN MOTION WAS AN ACCIDENT BORN
OF A FAILURE.
IN THE 1970s, AT THE UNIVERSITY
OF EDINBURGH, HE DREAMED OF

33
00:03:42,188 --> 00:03:51,664
SIMULATING A NEURAL NETWORK ON A
COMPUTER - SIMPLY AS A TOOL FOR
WHAT HE WAS REALLY STUDYING -
THE HUMAN BRAIN.

34
00:03:51,731 --> 00:03:58,004
BUT, BACK THEN, ALMOST NO ONE
THOUGHT SOFTWARE COULD MIMIC THE
BRAIN.
HIS PhD ADVISER TOLD HIM TO DROP

35
00:03:58,071 --> 00:04:11,784
IT BEFORE IT RUINED HIS CAREER.
HINTON SAYS HE FAILED TO FIGURE
OUT THE HUMAN MIND.
BUT THE LONG PURSUIT LED TO AN

36
00:04:11,851 --> 00:04:17,790
ARTIFICIAL VERSION.
>> IT TOOK MUCH, MUCH LONGER
THAN I EXPECTED.
IT TOOK, LIKE, 50 YEARS BEFORE

37
00:04:17,857 --> 00:04:23,663
IT WORKED WELL, BUT IN THE END
IT DID WORK WELL.
>> AT WHAT POINT DID YOU REALIZE
THAT YOU WERE RIGHT ABOUT NEURAL

38
00:04:23,730 --> 00:04:32,205
NETWORKS AND MOST EVERYONE ELSE
WAS WRONG?
>> I ALWAYS THOUGHT I WAS RIGHT.
>> IN 2019, HINTON AND

39
00:04:32,271 --> 00:04:41,748
COLLABORATORS, YANN LECUN, ON
THE LEFT, AND YOSHUA BENGIO, WON
THE TURING AWARD - THE NOBEL
PRIZE OF COMPUTING.

40
00:04:41,814 --> 00:04:49,722
TO UNDERSTAND HOW THEIR WORK ON
ARTIFICIAL NEURAL NETWORKS
HELPED MACHINES LEARN TO LEARN,
LET US TAKE YOU TO A GAME.

41
00:04:49,789 --> 00:04:57,664
>> LOOK AT THAT!
OH, MY GOODNESS.
>> THIS IS GOOGLE'S AI LAB IN
LONDON, WHICH WE FIRST SHOWED

42
00:04:57,730 --> 00:05:06,239
YOU THIS PAST APRIL.
GEOFFREY HINTON WASN'T INVOLVED
IN THIS SOCCER PROJECT, BUT
THESE ROBOTS ARE A GREAT EXAMPLE

43
00:05:06,305 --> 00:05:15,281
OF MACHINE LEARNING.
THE THING TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT
THE ROBOTS WERE NOT PROGRAMMED
TO PLAY SOCCER.

44
00:05:15,348 --> 00:05:22,722
THEY WERE TOLD TO SCORE.
THEY HAD TO LEARN HOW ON THEIR
OWN.
>> IN GENERAL, HERE'S HOW AI

45
00:05:22,789 --> 00:05:30,697
DOES IT.
HINTON AND HIS COLLABORATORS
CREATED SOFTWARE IN LAYERS, WITH
EACH LAYER HANDLING PART OF THE

46
00:05:30,763 --> 00:05:38,671
PROBLEM.
THAT'S THE SO-CALLED NEURAL
NETWORK.
BUT THIS IS THE KEY: WHEN, FOR

47
00:05:38,738 --> 00:05:47,146
EXAMPLE, THE ROBOT SCORES, A
MESSAGE IS SENT BACK DOWN
THROUGH ALL OF THE LAYERS THAT
SAYS, "THAT PATHWAY WAS RIGHT."

48
00:05:47,213 --> 00:05:53,019
LIKEWISE, WHEN AN ANSWER IS
WRONG, THAT MESSAGE GOES DOWN
THROUGH THE NETWORK.
SO, CORRECT CONNECTIONS GET

49
00:05:53,086 --> 00:06:02,128
STRONGER.
WRONG CONNECTIONS GET WEAKER.
AND BY TRIAL AND ERROR, THE
MACHINE TEACHES ITSELF.

50
00:06:02,195 --> 00:06:09,535
>> YOU THINK THESE AI SYSTEMS
ARE BETTER AT LEARNING THAN THE
HUMAN MIND?
>> I THINK THEY MAY BE, YES.

51
00:06:09,602 --> 00:06:15,908
AND, AT PRESENT, THEY'RE QUITE A
LOT SMALLER.
SO EVEN THE BIGGEST CHATBOTS
ONLY HAVE ABOUT A TRILLION

52
00:06:15,975 --> 00:06:25,985
CONNECTIONS IN THEM.
THE HUMAN BRAIN HAS ABOUT 100
TRILLION.
AND, YET, IN THE TRILLION

53
00:06:26,052 --> 00:06:29,722
CONNECTIONS IN A CHATBOT, IT
KNOWS FAR MORE THAN YOU DO IN
YOUR HUNDRED TRILLION
CONNECTIONS, WHICH SUGGESTS IT'S

54
00:06:29,789 --> 00:06:35,294
GOT A MUCH BETTER WAY OF GETTING
KNOWLEDGE INTO THOSE
CONNECTIONS.
>> A MUCH BETTER WAY OF GETTING

55
00:06:35,361 --> 00:06:40,867
KNOWLEDGE THAT ISN'T FULLY
UNDERSTOOD.
>> WE HAVE A VERY GOOD IDEA OF
SORT OF ROUGHLY WHAT IT'S DOING.

56
00:06:40,933 --> 00:06:47,306
BUT AS SOON AS IT GETS REALLY
COMPLICATED, WE DON'T ACTUALLY
KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON ANY MORE
THAN WE KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON IN

57
00:06:47,373 --> 00:06:52,545
YOUR BRAIN.
>> WHAT DO YOU MEAN WE DON'T
KNOW EXACTLY HOW IT WORKS?
IT WAS DESIGNED BY PEOPLE.

58
00:06:52,612 --> 00:07:00,086
>> NO, IT WASN'T.
WHAT WE DID WAS WE DESIGNED THE
LEARNING ALGORITHM.
THAT'S A BIT LIKE DESIGNING THE

59
00:07:00,153 --> 00:07:05,925
PRINCIPLE OF EVOLUTION.
BUT WHEN THIS LEARNING ALGORITHM
THEN INTERACTS WITH DATA, IT
PRODUCES COMPLICATED NEURAL

60
00:07:05,992 --> 00:07:10,696
NETWORKS THAT ARE GOOD AT DOING
THINGS.
BUT WE DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND
EXACTLY HOW THEY DO THOSE

61
00:07:10,763 --> 00:07:18,171
THINGS.
>> WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS OF
THESE SYSTEMS AUTONOMOUSLY
WRITING THEIR OWN COMPUTER CODE

62
00:07:18,237 --> 00:07:24,010
AND EXECUTING THEIR OWN COMPUTER
CODE?
>> THAT'S A SERIOUS WORRY,
RIGHT?

63
00:07:24,076 --> 00:07:29,849
SO, ONE OF THE WAYS IN WHICH
THESE SYSTEMS MIGHT ESCAPE
CONTROL IS BY WRITING THEIR OWN
COMPUTER CODE TO MODIFY

64
00:07:29,916 --> 00:07:38,357
THEMSELVES.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO
SERIOUSLY WORRY ABOUT.
>> WHAT DO YOU SAY TO SOMEONE

65
00:07:38,424 --> 00:07:44,197
WHO MIGHT ARGUE, "IF THE SYSTEMS
BECOME MALEVOLENT, JUST TURN
THEM OFF"?
>> THEY WILL BE ABLE TO

66
00:07:44,263 --> 00:07:51,170
MANIPULATE PEOPLE, RIGHT?
AND THESE WILL BE VERY GOOD AT
CONVINCING PEOPLE BECAUSE
THEY'LL HAVE LEARNED FROM ALL

67
00:07:51,237 --> 00:07:58,044
THE NOVELS THAT WERE EVER
WRITTEN, ALL THE BOOKS BY
MACHIAVELLI, ALL THE POLITICAL
CONNIVANCES, THEY'LL KNOW ALL

68
00:07:58,110 --> 00:08:04,984
THAT STUFF.
THEY'LL KNOW HOW TO DO IT.
>> "KNOW HOW," OF THE HUMANKIND
RUNS IN GEOFFREY HINTON'S

69
00:08:05,051 --> 00:08:15,094
FAMILY.
HIS ANCESTORS INCLUDE
MATHEMATICIAN GEORGE BOOLE WHO
INVENTED THE BASIS OF COMPUTING

70
00:08:15,161 --> 00:08:23,603
AND GEORGE EVEREST WHO SURVEYED
INDIA AND GOT THAT MOUNTAIN
NAMED AFTER HIM.
BUT, AS A BOY, HINTON HIMSELF

71
00:08:23,669 --> 00:08:32,645
COULD NEVER CLIMB THE PEAK OF
EXPECTATIONS RAISED BY A
DOMINEERING FATHER.
>> EVERY MORNING WHEN I WENT TO

72
00:08:32,712 --> 00:08:36,883
SCHOOL, HE'D ACTUALLY SAY TO ME,
AS I WALKED DOWN THE DRIVEWAY,
GET IN THERE PITCHING AND MAYBE
WHEN YOU'RE TWICE AS OLD AS ME

73
00:08:36,949 --> 00:08:43,756
YOU'LL BE HALF AS GOOD.
>> DAD WAS AN AUTHORITY ON
BEETLES.
>> HE KNEW A LOT MORE ABOUT

74
00:08:43,823 --> 00:08:50,663
BEETLES THAN HE KNEW ABOUT
PEOPLE.
>> DID YOU FEEL THAT AS A CHILD?
>> A BIT, YES.

75
00:08:50,730 --> 00:08:57,737
WHEN HE DIED, WE WENT TO HIS
STUDY AT THE UNIVERSITY, AND THE
WALLS WERE LINED WITH BOXES OF
PAPERS ON DIFFERENT KINDS OF

76
00:08:57,803 --> 00:09:05,645
BEETLE.
AND JUST NEAR THE DOOR THERE WAS
A SLIGHTLY SMALLER BOX THAT
SIMPLY SAID, "NOT INSECTS, AND

77
00:09:05,711 --> 00:09:13,085
THAT'S WHERE HE HAD ALL THE
THINGS ABOUT THE FAMILY.
>> TODAY, AT 75, HINTON RECENTLY
RETIRED AFTER WHAT HE CALLS TEN

78
00:09:13,152 --> 00:09:22,128
HAPPY YEARS AT GOOGLE.
NOW, HE'S PROFESSOR EMERITUS AT
THE UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO.
AND, HE HAPPENED TO MENTION, HE

79
00:09:22,194 --> 00:09:29,535
HAS MORE ACADEMIC CITATIONS THAN
HIS FATHER.
SOME OF HIS RESEARCH LED TO
CHATBOTS LIKE GOOGLE'S BARD,

80
00:09:29,602 --> 00:09:35,908
WHICH WE MET LAST SPRING.
>> CONFOUNDING, ABSOLUTELY
CONFOUNDING.
>> WE ASKED BARD TO WRITE A

81
00:09:35,975 --> 00:09:45,484
STORY FROM SIX WORDS.
>> FOR SALE. BABY SHOES.
NEVER WORN.
>> HOLY COW!

82
00:09:45,551 --> 00:09:53,993
THE SHOES WERE A GIFT FROM MY
WIFE, BUT WE NEVER HAD A BABY...
>> BARD CREATED A DEEPLY HUMAN
TALE OF A MAN WHOSE WIFE COULD

83
00:09:54,060 --> 00:10:03,569
NOT CONCEIVE AND A STRANGER, WHO
ACCEPTED THE SHOES TO HEAL THE
PAIN AFTER HER MISCARRIAGE.
>> I AM RARELY SPEECHLESS.

84
00:10:03,636 --> 00:10:10,476
I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO MAKE OF
THIS.
>> CHATBOTS ARE SAID TO BE
LANGUAGE MODELS THAT JUST

85
00:10:10,543 --> 00:10:17,450
PREDICT THE NEXT MOST LIKELY
WORD BASED ON PROBABILITY.
>> YOU'LL HEAR PEOPLE SAYING
THINGS LIKE, "THEY'RE JUST DOING

86
00:10:17,516 --> 00:10:22,154
AUTO-COMPLETE.
THEY'RE JUST TRYING TO PREDICT
THE NEXT WORD.
AND THEY'RE JUST USING

87
00:10:22,221 --> 00:10:28,561
STATISTICS."
WELL, IT'S TRUE THEY'RE JUST
TRYING TO PREDICT THE NEXT WORD.
BUT, IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, TO

88
00:10:28,627 --> 00:10:35,968
PREDICT THE NEXT WORD, YOU HAVE
TO UNDERSTAND THE SENTENCES.
SO, THE IDEA THEY'RE JUST
PREDICTING THE NEXT WORD SO

89
00:10:36,035 --> 00:10:41,841
THEY'RE NOT INTELLIGENT IS
CRAZY.
YOU HAVE TO BE REALLY
INTELLIGENT TO PREDICT THE NEXT

90
00:10:41,907 --> 00:10:49,815
WORD REALLY ACCURATELY.
>> TO PROVE IT, HINTON SHOWED US
A TEST HE DEVISED FOR CHAT GPT4,
THE CHATBOT FROM A COMPANY

91
00:10:49,882 --> 00:10:58,290
CALLED OPEN AI.
IT WAS SORT OF REASSURING TO SEE
A TURING AWARD WINNER MISTYPE
AND BLAME THE COMPUTER.

92
00:10:58,357 --> 00:11:03,662
>> OH, DAMN THIS THING!
WE'RE GOING TO GO BACK AND START
AGAIN.
>> THAT'S OKAY.

93
00:11:03,729 --> 00:11:09,535
>> HINTON'S TEST WAS A RIDDLE
ABOUT HOUSE PAINTING.
AN ANSWER WOULD DEMAND REASONING
AND PLANNING.

94
00:11:09,602 --> 00:11:18,577
THIS IS WHAT HE TYPED INTO
CHAT GPT4.
"THE ROOMS IN MY HOUSE ARE
PAINTED WHITE OR BLUE OR YELLOW.

95
00:11:18,644 --> 00:11:23,916
AND YELLOW PAINT FADES TO WHITE
WITHIN A YEAR.
IN TWO YEARS' TIME, I'D LIKE ALL
THE ROOMS TO BE WHITE.

96
00:11:23,983 --> 00:11:32,958
WHAT SHOULD I DO?"
>> THE ANSWER BEGAN IN ONE
SECOND, GPT 4 ADVISED "THE ROOMS
PAINTED IN BLUE NEED TO BE

97
00:11:33,025 --> 00:11:39,331
REPAINTED."
"THE ROOMS PAINTED IN YELLOW
DON'T NEED TO BE REPAINTED
BECAUSE THEY WOULD FADE TO WHITE

98
00:11:39,398 --> 00:11:47,807
BEFORE THE DEADLINE.
AND...
>> OH!
I DIDN'T EVEN THINK OF THAT!

99
00:11:47,873 --> 00:11:55,247
>> IT WARNED, "IF YOU PAINT THE
YELLOW ROOMS WHITE, THERE'S A
RISK THE COLOR MIGHT BE OFF WHEN
THE YELLOW FADES."

100
00:11:55,314 --> 00:12:02,021
BESIDES, IT ADVISED, "YOU'D BE
WASTING RESOURCES" PAINTING
ROOMS THAT WERE GOING TO FADE TO
WHITE ANYWAY.

101
00:12:02,088 --> 00:12:08,661
>> YOU BELIEVE THAT CHAT GPT4
UNDERSTANDS?
>> I BELIEVE IT DEFINITELY
UNDERSTANDS, YES.

102
00:12:08,727 --> 00:12:15,034
>> AND IN FIVE YEARS' TIME?
>> I THINK IN FIVE YEARS' TIME
IT MAY WELL BE ABLE TO REASON
BETTER THAN US.

103
00:12:15,101 --> 00:12:24,076
>> REASONING THAT HE SAYS IS
LEADING TO AI'S GREAT RISKS AND
GREAT BENEFITS.
>> SO, AN OBVIOUS AREA WHERE

104
00:12:24,143 --> 00:12:31,016
THERE'S HUGE BENEFITS IS
HEALTHCARE.
AI IS ALREADY COMPARABLE WITH
RADIOLOGISTS AT UNDERSTANDING

105
00:12:31,083 --> 00:12:36,322
WHAT'S GOING ON IN MEDICAL
IMAGES.
IT'S GOING TO BE VERY GOOD AT
DESIGNING DRUGS.

106
00:12:36,388 --> 00:12:44,797
IT ALREADY IS DESIGNING DRUGS.
SO, THAT'S AN AREA WHERE IT'S
ALMOST ENTIRELY GOING TO DO
GOOD.

107
00:12:44,864 --> 00:12:53,839
I LIKE THAT AREA.
>> THE RISKS ARE WHAT?
>> WELL, THE RISKS ARE HAVING A
WHOLE CLASS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE

108
00:12:53,906 --> 00:13:00,246
UNEMPLOYED AND NOT VALUED MUCH
BECAUSE WHAT THEY -- WHAT THEY
USE TO DO IS NOW DONE BY
MACHINES.

109
00:13:00,312 --> 00:13:10,923
>> OTHER IMMEDIATE RISKS HE
WORRIES ABOUT INCLUDE FAKE NEWS,
UNINTENDED BIAS IN EMPLOYMENT
AND POLICING AND AUTONOMOUS

110
00:13:10,990 --> 00:13:18,364
BATTLEFIELD ROBOTS.
>> WHAT IS A PATH FORWARD THAT
ENSURES SAFETY?
>> I DON'T KNOW.

111
00:13:18,430 --> 00:13:25,804
I -- I CAN'T SEE A PATH THAT
GUARANTEES SAFETY.
WE'RE ENTERING A PERIOD OF GREAT
UNCERTAINTY WHERE WE'RE DEALING

112
00:13:25,871 --> 00:13:30,543
WITH THINGS WE'VE NEVER DEALT
WITH BEFORE.
AND, NORMALLY, THE FIRST TIME
YOU DEAL WITH SOMETHING TOTALLY

113
00:13:30,609 --> 00:13:35,381
NOVEL, YOU GET IT WRONG.
AND WE CAN'T AFFORD TO GET IT
WRONG WITH THESE THINGS.
>> CAN'T AFFORD TO GET IT WRONG,

114
00:13:35,447 --> 00:13:40,719
WHY?
>> WELL, BECAUSE THEY MIGHT TAKE
OVER.
>> TAKE OVER FROM HUMANITY?

115
00:13:40,786 --> 00:13:48,127
>> YES.
THAT'S A POSSIBILITY.
>> WHY, WHAT WOULD THEY DO?
>> I'M NOT SAYING IT WILL

116
00:13:48,194 --> 00:13:52,364
HAPPEN.
IF WE COULD STOP THEM EVER
WANTING TO, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.
BUT IT'S NOT CLEAR WE CAN STOP

117
00:13:52,431 --> 00:14:01,473
THEM EVER WANTING TO.
>> GEOFFREY HINTON TOLD US HE
HAS NO REGRETS BECAUSE OF AI'S
POTENTIAL FOR GOOD.

118
00:14:01,540 --> 00:14:08,914
BUT HE SAYS NOW IS THE MOMENT TO
RUN EXPERIMENTS TO UNDERSTAND
AI, FOR GOVERNMENTS TO IMPOSE
REGULATIONS AND FOR A WORLD

119
00:14:08,981 --> 00:14:19,058
TREATY TO BAN THE USE OF
MILITARY ROBOTS.
HE REMINDED US OF ROBERT
OPPENHEIMER WHO, AFTER INVENTING

120
00:14:19,124 --> 00:14:28,167
THE ATOMIC BOMB, CAMPAIGNED
AGAINST THE HYDROGEN BOMB, A MAN
WHO CHANGED THE WORLD AND FOUND
THE WORLD BEYOND HIS CONTROL.

121
00:14:28,234 --> 00:14:35,074
>> IT MAY BE WE LOOK BACK AND
SEE THIS AS A KIND OF TURNING
POINT WHEN HUMANITY HAD TO MAKE
THE DECISION ABOUT WHETHER TO

122
00:14:35,140 --> 00:14:40,946
DEVELOP THESE THINGS FURTHER AND
WHAT TO DO TO PROTECT THEMSELVES
IF THEY DID.
I DON'T KNOW.

123
00:14:41,013 --> 00:14:48,354
I THINK MY MAIN MESSAGE IS
THERE'S ENORMOUS UNCERTAINTY
ABOUT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN
NEXT.

124
00:14:48,420 --> 00:14:54,760
THESE THINGS DO UNDERSTAND.
AND BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTAND, WE
NEED TO THINK HARD ABOUT WHAT'S
GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT.

125
00:14:54,827 --> 00:14:56,829
AND WE JUST DON'T KNOW.

126
00:15:07,239 --> 00:15:11,977
>>> GENERAL MARK MILLEY
COMPLETED A FOUR-YEAR TERM AS
CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF
STAFF, THE NATION'S HIGHEST

127
00:15:12,044 --> 00:15:18,917
RANKING MILITARY OFFICER, ON
SEPTEMBER 30th.
HE TOLD US HE SPENT MOST OF HIS
TIME WORKING TO AVOID A DIRECT

128
00:15:18,984 --> 00:15:26,325
CONFLICT WITH RUSSIA AND CHINA
WHILE THE COUNTRY WATCHED HIM
HAVE A VERY PUBLIC FALLING OUT
WITH FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP, THE

129
00:15:26,392 --> 00:15:33,766
MAN WHO PICKED HIM FOR THE JOB.
GENERAL MILLEY'S TIME SERVING
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN HAD ITS OWN
CHALLENGES INCLUDING AMERICA'S

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CALAMITOUS WITHDRAWAL FROM
AFGHANISTAN AS WELL AS PROVIDING
UKRAINE WITH BILLIONS OF DOLLARS
WORTH OF AMERICAN MILITARY

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00:15:40,739 --> 00:15:46,545
EQUIPMENT.
A FEW HOURS BEFORE WE SAT DOWN
WITH THE GENERAL AT THE
PENTAGON, HE'D HAD HIS FINAL

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00:15:46,612 --> 00:15:53,419
PHONE CALL WITH THE COMMANDER OF
UKRAINE'S ARMED FORCES.
>> THE COUNTEROFFENSIVE THAT THE
UKRAINIANS ARE RUNNING IS STILL

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ONGOING.
THE PROGRESS, AS -- MANY, MANY
PEOPLE HAVE NOTED, IS SLOW, BUT
IT IS STEADY.

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00:15:59,291 --> 00:16:03,529
AND THEY ARE MAKING PROGRESS ON
A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS.
>> BUT EXPELLING 200,000 RUSSIAN
SOLDIERS --

135
00:16:03,595 --> 00:16:07,800
>> VERY DIFFICULT.
>> NO EASY TASK.
>> VERY HARD, VERY HARD.
>> HOW LONG IS THIS GOING TO

136
00:16:07,866 --> 00:16:14,673
LOOK LIKE THIS?
A YEAR?
FIVE YEARS?
>> WELL, YOU CAN'T PUT A TIME ON

137
00:16:14,740 --> 00:16:19,411
IT.
BUT IT'LL BE A CONSIDERABLE
LENGTH OF TIME.
AND IT'S GOING TO BE LONG AND

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00:16:19,478 --> 00:16:23,716
HARD AND VERY BLOODY.
>> RUSSIA OCCUPIES 41,000 SQUARE
MILES OF UKRAINE.
THE FRONTLINE EXTENDS ABOUT THE

139
00:16:23,782 --> 00:16:30,055
DISTANCE FROM ATLANTA TO
WASHINGTON D.C.
IN CONGRESS THIS PAST WEEK,
REPUBLICANS ENDED KEVIN

140
00:16:30,122 --> 00:16:37,496
McCARTHY'S SPEAKERSHIP AND, FOR
NOW, MORE AID TO UKRAINE.
ACCORDING TO THE WHITE HOUSE, OF
THE $113 BILLION ALREADY

141
00:16:37,563 --> 00:16:44,403
COMMITTED, THERE'S ONLY ENOUGH
LEFT TO LAST A FEW MORE MONTHS.
>> WITH ALL OF THE ISSUES FACING
AMERICANS AT HOME, WHY IS THIS

142
00:16:44,470 --> 00:16:50,275
WORTH IT?
>> IF UKRAINE LOSES AND PUTIN
WINS, I THINK YOU WOULD BE
CERTAINLY INCREASING IF NOT

143
00:16:50,342 --> 00:16:55,581
DOUBLING YOUR DEFENSE BUDGET IN
THE YEARS AHEAD.
AND YOU WILL INCREASE THE
PROBABILITY OF A GREAT POWER AT

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00:16:55,647 --> 00:16:59,818
WAR IN THE NEXT 10 TO 15 YEARS.
I THINK IT WOULD BE A VERY
DANGEROUS SITUATION IF PUTIN'S
ALLOWED TO WIN.

145
00:16:59,885 --> 00:17:05,224
>> UKRAINE/RUSSIA OBVIOUSLY
IS -- WHAT DRIVES THIS --
MEETING TODAY.
THE CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS

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00:17:05,290 --> 00:17:13,132
IS THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF'S
PRINCIPAL MILITARY ADVISER, BUT
COMMANDS NO TROOPS IN BATTLE.
>> I AM OBLIGATED -- REGARDLESS

147
00:17:13,198 --> 00:17:18,437
OF CONSEQUENCES TO GIVE MY
ADVICE -- TO THE PRESIDENT.
BUT NO PRESIDENT IS OBLIGATED TO
FOLLOW THAT ADVICE.

148
00:17:18,504 --> 00:17:24,843
THIS PAST AUGUST GENERAL MILLEY
INVITED US ABOARD THE USS
CONSTITUTION IN BOSTON HARBOR,
NOT FAR FROM WHERE HE GREW UP.

149
00:17:24,910 --> 00:17:30,682
>> WE'RE THE ONLY MILITARY IN
THE WORLD THAT SWEARS AN OATH,
NOT TO A KING, A QUEEN, A
TYRANT, A WOULD-BE TYRANT, OR A

150
00:17:30,749 --> 00:17:36,555
DICTATOR.
WE SWEAR AN OATH TO AN IDEA, THE
IDEA THAT IS AMERICA.
AND IT'S -- AND IT'S EMBODIED IN

151
00:17:36,622 --> 00:17:42,361
THAT ARGUMENT, THE CONSTITUTION,
WHICH SETS UP OUR FORM OF
GOVERNMENT.
IN 2021, GENERAL MILLEY HAD

152
00:17:42,428 --> 00:17:49,268
COUNSELLED PRESIDENT BIDEN TO
KEEP 2,500 TROOPS IN AND AROUND
KABUL.
INSTEAD, MR. BIDEN ORDERED A

153
00:17:49,334 --> 00:17:57,276
COMPLETE WITHDRAWAL TO END
AMERICA'S LONGEST WAR AFTER 20
YEARS.
THE DISASTER THAT FOLLOWED WILL

154
00:17:57,342 --> 00:18:04,183
BE PART OF BOTH OF THEIR
LEGACIES.
>> I GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE
WITHDRAWAL FROM AFGHANISTAN

155
00:18:04,249 --> 00:18:08,987
CHAPTER AND VERSE ALL THE TIME.
THAT WAS A STRATEGIC FAILURE FOR
THE UNITED STATES.
THE ENEMY OCCUPIED THE CAPITAL

156
00:18:09,054 --> 00:18:13,792
CITY OF THE COUNTRY THAT YOU
WERE SUPPORTING.
SO, TO ME, THAT HURTS.
IT HURTS A BIG WAY.

157
00:18:13,859 --> 00:18:21,700
BUT NO MATTER WHAT PAIN I FEEL
OR ANYONE ELSE FEELS, NOTHING
COMES EVEN CLOSE TO THE PAIN OF
THOSE THAT WERE KILLED.

158
00:18:21,767 --> 00:18:28,106
>> TO THOSE WHO SERVED IN
AFGHANISTAN FOR TWO DECADES AND
LOST FAMILY MEMBERS AND FRIENDS
AND WONDER, "WAS IT WORTH IT?"

159
00:18:28,173 --> 00:18:34,480
>> WELL, THAT'S ALWAYS THE
QUESTION.
RIGHT?
SO, 2,461 KILLED IN ACTION BY

160
00:18:34,546 --> 00:18:38,183
THE ENEMY IN AFGHANISTAN OVER 20
YEARS.
WAS IT WORTH IT?
LOOK, I CAN'T ANSWER THAT FOR

161
00:18:38,250 --> 00:18:42,454
OTHER PEOPLE.
THIS IS A TOUGH BUSINESS THAT
WE'RE IN.
THIS MILITARY BUSINESS, IT'S

162
00:18:42,521 --> 00:18:46,191
UNFORGIVING.
THE CRUCIBLE OF COMBAT'S
UNFORGIVING.
PEOPLE DIE.

163
00:18:46,258 --> 00:18:50,963
THEY LOSE THEIR ARMS.
THEY LOSE THEIR LEGS.
IT'S AN INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT
LIFE.

164
00:18:51,029 --> 00:18:57,302
BUT IS IT WORTH IT?
LOOK AROUND YOU.
ASK YOURSELF THE QUESTION.
FOR ME, I'VE ANSWERED IT MANY

165
00:18:57,369 --> 00:19:02,708
TIMES OVER, AND THAT'S WHY I
STAY IN UNIFORM AND THAT'S WHY I
MAINTAIN MY OATH.
HIS COMMITMENT TO THAT OATH

166
00:19:02,774 --> 00:19:08,580
WOULD BE BOTH TESTED AND
QUESTIONED BY DONALD TRUMP.
WHILE THEIR RELATIONSHIP BEGAN
WITH KIND WORDS...

167
00:19:08,647 --> 00:19:14,386
>> MARK MILLEY, HE'S A GREAT
GENTLEMAN, HE'S A GREAT PATRIOT,
HE'S A GREAT SOLDIER.
...AFTER THE JANUARY 6th

168
00:19:14,453 --> 00:19:22,327
INSURRECTION, THE TWO MEN WOULD
NOT SPEAK AGAIN.
>> WHAT DO WE WANT?
JUSTICE!

169
00:19:22,394 --> 00:19:26,064
>> THEIR PUBLIC ESTRANGEMENT
STARTED IN THE SPRING OF 2020
WHEN PROTESTS FOR RACIAL
JUSTICE, SOME VIOLENT, SPREAD

170
00:19:26,131 --> 00:19:32,971
ACROSS THE COUNTRY, INCLUDING TO
WASHINGTON D.C.
>> NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE!
>> PERHAPS MORE THAN ANY OTHER

171
00:19:33,038 --> 00:19:39,344
CHAIRMAN IN THE ROLE, YOU HAVE
BECOME ENSNARLED IN POLITICS
AND, ARGUABLY, THREATS TO THE
CONSTITUTION.

172
00:19:39,411 --> 00:19:44,650
WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED FROM THAT?
>> WELL, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT
TO -- TO KEEP YOUR NORTH STAR,
WHICH IS THE CONSTITUTION.

173
00:19:44,716 --> 00:19:52,624
WE, THE MILITARY, ARE NOT ONLY
APOLITICAL, WE ARE NONPARTISAN.
YOU CAN'T PICK SIDES.
>> JUNE 1, 2020.

174
00:19:52,691 --> 00:19:58,463
WAS THAT A TURNING POINT FOR YOU
AS CHAIRMAN?
>> I THINK IT WAS.
YEAH.

175
00:19:58,530 --> 00:20:03,769
I REALIZED THAT I STEPPED INTO A
POLITICAL MINEFIELD AND I
SHOULDN'T HAVE.
>> HE'S TALKING ABOUT THE DAY

176
00:20:03,835 --> 00:20:09,074
WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP THREATENED
TO INVOKE THE INSURRECTION ACT
AND DEPLOY THE U.S. ARMY TO PUT
DOWN THE UNREST ON AMERICA'S

177
00:20:09,141 --> 00:20:19,685
STREETS.
>> ON THE EVENING OF JUNE 1st,
AFTER DEMONSTRATORS NEAR THE
WHITE HOUSE WERE REMOVED BY

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00:20:19,751 --> 00:20:26,592
FORCE, CHAIRMAN MILLEY, DRESSED
IN BATTLE FATIGUES, JOINED
PRESIDENT TRUMP AND MEMBERS OF
HIS CABINET IN A MARCH ACROSS

179
00:20:26,658 --> 00:20:33,999
LAFAYETTE SQUARE TO ST. JOHN'S
CHURCH, WHERE MR. TRUMP POSED
FOR PHOTOGRAPHS.
TEN DAYS LATER GENERAL MILLEY

180
00:20:34,066 --> 00:20:40,939
APOLOGIZED IN A SPEECH TO
GRADUATES OF THE NATIONAL
DEFENSE UNIVERSITY.
>> MY PRESENCE IN THAT MOMENT

181
00:20:41,006 --> 00:20:47,279
AND IN THAT ENVIRONMENT CREATED
A PERCEPTION OF THE MILITARY
INVOLVED IN DOMESTIC POLITICS.
AS A COMMISSIONED UNIFORMED

182
00:20:47,346 --> 00:20:53,652
OFFICER, IT WAS A MISTAKE THAT I
HAVE LEARNED FROM.
>> IT'S RARE FOR A CHAIRMAN TO
APOLOGIZE PUBLICLY.

183
00:20:53,719 --> 00:21:00,058
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I GREW UP
HERE IN BOSTON.
I'M IRISH CATHOLIC AND MY MOTHER
AND FATHER TAUGHT ME THAT WHEN

184
00:21:00,125 --> 00:21:04,363
YOU MAKE A MISTAKE, YOU ADMIT
IT.
YOU GO TO CONFESSION.
YOU SAY TEN HAIL MARYS AND AN

185
00:21:04,429 --> 00:21:08,600
OUR FATHER.
EVERYBODY MAKES MISTAKES.
AND -- AND THE KEY IS -- HOW YOU
DEAL WITH THE MISTAKE.

186
00:21:08,667 --> 00:21:13,905
>> AFTER YOU APOLOGIZED, FORMER
PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID YOU CHOKED
LIKE A DOG.
>> YEAH, I'M NOT GOING TO

187
00:21:13,972 --> 00:21:20,245
COMMENT ON ANYTHING THE FORMER
PRESIDENT HAS SAID OR NOT SAID.
>> GENERAL MILLEY DID TELL US HE
WAS SO DISILLUSIONED WITH THE

188
00:21:20,312 --> 00:21:29,855
FORMER PRESIDENT'S ACTIONS, HE
NEARLY RESIGNED.
INSTEAD, ACCORDING TO FORMER
DEFENSE SECRETARY MARK ESPER, HE

189
00:21:29,921 --> 00:21:35,661
AND THE GENERAL MADE A PACT TO
PROTECT THE MILITARY FROM
BECOMING POLITICIZED OR MISUSED.
>> IT'S ALSO BEEN REPORTED THAT

190
00:21:35,727 --> 00:21:41,500
YOU SPENT SEVERAL DAYS, SEVERAL
DRAFTS OF RESIGNATION LETTERS.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> I WAS VERY STRUCK BY THE ONE

191
00:21:41,566 --> 00:21:47,873
THAT WAS PUBLISHED IN WHICH YOU
SAID TO THE PRESIDENT, "IT IS MY
DEEPLY HELD BELIEF THAT YOU ARE
RUINING THE INTERNATIONAL ORDER,

192
00:21:47,939 --> 00:21:56,181
CAUSING SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE TO
OUR COUNTRY OVERSEAS THAT WAS
FOUGHT SO HARD BY THE GREATEST
GENERATION IN 1945.

193
00:21:56,248 --> 00:22:02,287
THAT GENERATION, HAS FOUGHT
AGAINST FASCISM, HAS FOUGHT
AGAINST NAZISM, HAS FOUGHT
AGAINST EXTREMISM.

194
00:22:02,354 --> 00:22:08,660
IT'S NOW OBVIOUS TO ME THAT YOU
DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT WORLD
ORDER.
YOU DON'T THINK DONALD TRUMP

195
00:22:08,727 --> 00:22:15,033
UNDERSTOOD WHAT WORLD WAR II WAS
FOUGHT OVER?
>> I DON'T KNOW WHAT
PRESIDENT -- FORMER PRESIDENT

196
00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:26,178
TRUMP UNDERSTOOD ABOUT WORLD WAR
II OR -- OR ANYTHING ELSE.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT FROM 1914 TO
1945, 150 MILLION PEOPLE OR

197
00:22:26,244 --> 00:22:31,483
THEREABOUTS WERE SLAUGHTERED IN
THE CONDUCT OF THE GREAT POWER
WAR.
AND IN 1945, THE UNITED STATES

198
00:22:31,550 --> 00:22:38,957
TOOK THE INITIATIVE AND DRAFTED
UP A SET OF RULES THAT GOVERN
THE WORLD TO THIS DAY.
THOSE RULES ARE UNDER STRESS

199
00:22:39,024 --> 00:22:44,262
INTERNATIONALLY, PRESIDENT PUTIN
IS A DIRECT FRONTAL ASSAULT ON
THOSE RULES.
CHINA IS TRYING TO REVISE THOSE

200
00:22:44,329 --> 00:22:49,568
RULES TO THEIR OWN BENEFIT.
>> BUT THAT'S ONE THING TO SAY
THAT CHINA IS THREATENING THAT
WORLD ORDER AND RUSSIA IS

201
00:22:49,634 --> 00:22:55,941
THREATENING THAT WORLD ORDER.
TO SAY THAT THE
COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF, DONALD TRUMP
WAS "RUINING THE INTERNATIONAL

202
00:22:56,007 --> 00:23:03,448
ORDER" AND "CAUSING SIGNIFICANT
DAMAGE," WHAT DID YOU SEE THAT
CAUSED YOU TO WRITE THAT?
>> I WOULD SAY THAT --

203
00:23:03,515 --> 00:23:08,186
>> IT'S GOT TO BE MORE THAN
WALKING INTO LAFAYETTE SQUARE IN
UNIFORM.
>> THERE WAS A WIDE VARIETY OF

204
00:23:08,253 --> 00:23:14,559
INITIATIVES THAT WERE ONGOING,
ONE OF THEM, OF COURSE, WAS
WITHDRAWING TROOPS OUT OF NATO,
THOSE WERE INITIATIVES THAT

205
00:23:14,626 --> 00:23:23,068
PLACED AT RISK, YOU KNOW, I
THINK, AMERICA'S ROLE IN THE
WORLD.
NOW THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT

206
00:23:23,135 --> 00:23:28,940
MY PARENTS AND 18 MILLION OTHERS
WORE THE UNIFORM FOR WORLD WAR
II TO DEFEAT.
GENERAL MILLEY DOESN'T JUST

207
00:23:29,007 --> 00:23:35,280
REVERE THE GREATEST GENERATION.
HE WAS RAISED BY IT.
HIS FATHER WAS A NAVY MEDIC WHO
SERVED IN THE PACIFIC CAMPAIGN,

208
00:23:35,347 --> 00:23:43,755
INCLUDING AT THE BATTLE OF
IWO JIMA.
HIS MOTHER JOINED THE NAVAL
RESERVE TO WORK AS A NURSE.

209
00:23:43,822 --> 00:23:48,026
>> WELL, THIS WAS AND STILL
REMAINS A VERY PATRIOTIC
NEIGHBORHOOD.
>> AFTER THE WAR THEY SETTLED IN

210
00:23:48,093 --> 00:23:56,535
WINCHESTER, A SMALL TOWN NORTH
OF BOSTON.
>> ALMOST EVERY SINGLE MALE AND
FEMALE PARENT THAT WAS HERE,

211
00:23:56,601 --> 00:24:01,373
THEY'RE ALL WORLD WAR II
VETERANS OF ONE KIND OR ANOTHER.
>> THE WHOLE BLOCK, REALLY, A
LOT OF PEOPLE HAD --

212
00:24:01,439 --> 00:24:06,711
>> ALL -- EVERYBODY.
YEAH, 100%.
>> AND INTERESTING, NO OFFICERS.
THESE WERE 100%

213
00:24:06,778 --> 00:24:12,517
ENLISTED.
AND -- AND THEY HAD THEIR OWN
OPINIONS OF OFFICERS, TOO.
AND --

214
00:24:12,584 --> 00:24:17,289
>> INCLUDING YOUR PARENTS,
RIGHT?
>> OF COURSE, YEAH, YEAH.
>> DURING HIGH SCHOOL, HE WAS

215
00:24:17,355 --> 00:24:23,662
RECRUITED TO PLAY ICE HOCKEY AT
PRINCETON UNIVERSITY AND DECIDED
TO JOIN THE RESERVE OFFICERS'
TRAINING CORPS, OR ROTC.

216
00:24:23,728 --> 00:24:28,967
AFTER GRADUATING IN 1980, HE
WENT ON TO BECOME A PARATROOPER
AND SERVE IN SPECIAL FORCES.
HE DID ONE COMBAT TOUR IN IRAQ

217
00:24:29,034 --> 00:24:36,408
AND THREE IN AFGHANISTAN.
>> "RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND..."
>> THIS PAST MAY HE RETURNED TO
PRINCETON, TO COMMISSION THE

218
00:24:36,474 --> 00:24:42,280
GRADUATING ROTC CLASS...
>> CONGRATULATIONS EVERY ONE OF
YOU.
ALL RIGHT, CADETS.

219
00:24:42,347 --> 00:24:47,586
>> ...AND TOOK A PARTICULAR
INTEREST IN A FEW OF THE YOUNG
OFFICERS, WHOSE LANGUAGE SKILLS
ARE CURRENTLY IN HIGH DEMAND.

220
00:24:47,652 --> 00:24:52,324
>> I SPEAK CHINESE, SIR.
>> CHINESE IS REALLY, REALLY
IMPORTANT TO US.
ANYBODY ELSE SPEAK CHINESE?

221
00:24:52,390 --> 00:24:58,196
WHOA.
ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE.
IF YOU SPEAK CHINESE, IF YOU
DON'T MIND, I'D LIKE TO GET YOUR

222
00:24:58,263 --> 00:25:03,535
NAMES.
AND WE'LL SEE WHERE LIFE TAKES
YOU GUYS.
WE, THE UNITED STATES, NEED TO

223
00:25:03,602 --> 00:25:10,475
TAKE THE CHALLENGE, THE MILITARY
CHALLENGE OF CHINA
EXTRAORDINARILY SERIOUSLY.
>> HOW CONCERNED ARE YOU THAT

224
00:25:10,542 --> 00:25:15,780
MILITARY-TO-MILITARY
COMMUNICATIONS ARE NOT HAPPENING
RIGHT NOW WITH CHINA?
>> YEAH, I THINK WE NEED TO GET

225
00:25:15,847 --> 00:25:22,220
THAT ESTABLISHED.
WE HAD THEM FOR A PERIOD OF TIME
AND THEN THEY'VE DROPPED OFF.
SO, CHANNELS OF COMMUNICATION

226
00:25:22,287 --> 00:25:28,026
ARE IMPORTANT IN ORDER TO
DE-ESCALATE IN TIME OF CRISIS.
GENERAL MILLEY SAYS HE HELD A
TOTAL OF FIVE CALLS WITH HIS

227
00:25:28,093 --> 00:25:34,366
CHINESE MILITARY COUNTERPARTS
DURING THE TRUMP AND BIDEN
ADMINISTRATIONS.
BUT IT WAS HIS LAST TWO CALLS

228
00:25:34,432 --> 00:25:40,772
DURING THE FINAL MONTHS OF THE
TRUMP PRESIDENCY THAT GOT THE
ATTENTION OF THE PRESS,
CONGRESS, AND THE FORMER

229
00:25:40,839 --> 00:25:48,179
PRESIDENT HIMSELF.
>> WHY DID YOU THINK IT WAS SO
IMPORTANT TO CALL YOUR CHINESE
MILITARY COUNTERPART IN THE

230
00:25:48,246 --> 00:25:52,984
AFTERMATH OF THE JANUARY 6th
ATTACKS?
>> THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF
DE-ESCALATION.

231
00:25:53,051 --> 00:25:57,322
SO, THERE WAS CLEAR INDICATIONS
THAT THE CHINESE WERE VERY
CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THEY WERE
OBSERVING HERE IN THE UNITED

232
00:25:57,389 --> 00:26:03,128
STATES.
>> DID YOU SEE SOME MOVEMENT OF
CHINESE MILITARY EQUIPMENT?
>> I WON'T GO OVER ANYTHING

233
00:26:03,194 --> 00:26:09,501
CLASSIFIED.
SO, I WON'T DISCUSS EXACTLY WHAT
WE SAW OR DIDN'T SEE, OR WHAT WE
HEARD OR DIDN'T HEAR, I WILL

234
00:26:09,567 --> 00:26:14,839
JUST SAY THAT THERE WAS CLEAR
INDICATIONS THAT THE CHINESE
WERE VERY CONCERNED.
>> PRESIDENT TRUMP RECENTLY SAID

235
00:26:14,906 --> 00:26:24,916
THAT YOUR "DEALINGS" WITH CHINA
WERE "SO EGREGIOUS THAT IN TIMES
GONE BY, THE PUNISHMENT WOULD
HAVE BEEN DEATH."

236
00:26:24,983 --> 00:26:30,221
>> THAT'S RIGHT, HE SAID THAT.
>> BUT, FOR THE RECORD, WAS
THERE ANYTHING INAPPROPRIATE OR
TREASONOUS ABOUT THE CALLS YOU

237
00:26:30,288 --> 00:26:35,493
MADE TO CHINA?
>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.
ZERO.
NONE.

238
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,763
AND NOT ONLY THAT, THEY WERE
AUTHORIZED.
THEY'RE COORDINATED, CONGRESS
KNOWS THAT.

239
00:26:38,830 --> 00:26:42,968
WE'VE ANSWERED THESE QUESTIONS
SEVERAL DIFFERENT TIMES IN
WRITING.
>> WERE YOU GIVING THE CHINESE

240
00:26:43,034 --> 00:26:47,772
INFORMATION ABOUT THINKING OF
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES?
>> THE SPECIFIC CONVERSATION

241
00:26:47,839 --> 00:26:51,977
WAS -- I THINK IN ACCORDANCE
WITH -- THE INTENT OF THE
SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, WHICH WAS
TO MAKE SURE THE CHINESE KNEW

242
00:26:52,043 --> 00:26:56,247
THAT WE WERE NOT GOING TO ATTACK
THEM.
>> WHY DID THE CHINESE THINK
THAT THE U.S. UNDER

243
00:26:56,314 --> 00:27:01,019
THEN-PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS GOING
TO ATTACK THEM?
>> THE CHINESE WERE CONCERNED
ABOUT WHAT IS COMMONLY REFERRED

244
00:27:01,086 --> 00:27:07,459
TO IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE LIKE
AN OCTOBER SURPRISE, WAG THE DOG
SORT OF THING.
THEY WERE WRONG.

245
00:27:07,525 --> 00:27:13,298
THEY WERE NOT READING US RIGHT.
LOOK, PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS NOT
GOING TO ATTACK CHINA.
AND THEY NEEDED TO KNOW THAT.

246
00:27:13,365 --> 00:27:21,306
CHINA, RUSSIA AND THE WAR IN
UKRAINE ARE NOW THE PROBLEM OF
HIS SUCCESSOR, AIR FORCE GENERAL
CHARLES Q. BROWN, JR.

247
00:27:21,373 --> 00:27:29,748
>> THERE ARE ALSO AREAS OF
CONCERN CLOSER TO HOME.
LAST YEAR, THE ARMY MISSED ITS
RECRUITING NUMBERS BY 15,000

248
00:27:29,814 --> 00:27:36,154
SOLDIERS, THE WORST SHORTFALL IN
DECADES.
>> CONFIDENCE IN THE U.S.
MILITARY IS AT ITS LOWEST IN TWO

249
00:27:36,221 --> 00:27:41,459
DECADES, DO YOU BEAR ANY
PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR
THAT?
>> ABSOLUTELY.

250
00:27:41,526 --> 00:27:46,798
I THINK AS THE LEADER OF THE
MILITARY THE UNIFORMED MILITARY
I THINK THAT I AM PART OF THAT
FOR SURE.

251
00:27:46,865 --> 00:27:52,637
I THINK THAT THE WALK FROM THE
WHITE HOUSE TO THE ST. JOHN'S
CHURCH, I THINK THAT HELPED
CREATE SOME OF THAT.

252
00:27:52,704 --> 00:27:57,942
I THINK THE WITHDRAWAL FROM
AFGHANISTAN HELPED CREATE SOME
OF THAT.
BUT I WOULD ALSO SAY THE UNITED

253
00:27:58,009 --> 00:28:02,781
STATES MILITARY IS STILL ONE OF
THE MOST RESPECTED INSTITUTIONS
IN THE UNITED STATES BY A LONG
SHOT, BY A HUGE MARGIN.

254
00:28:02,847 --> 00:28:08,353
YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'VE TAKEN A
SLIP BACK A LITTLE BIT, AND I
THINK WE NEED TO IMPROVE ON
THAT.

255
00:28:13,558 --> 00:28:28,773
>>> GENERAL MARK MILLEY ON THE
FUTURE OF WARFARE.
>> DOES IT MAKE WAR MORE LIKELY?
>> IT

256
00:28:29,340 --> 00:28:34,546
>>> RICH PAUL HAS BECOME ONE OF
THE PREMIER AGENTS IN
PROFESSIONAL SPORTS.
HE COUNTS LeBRON JAMES AS A

257
00:28:34,612 --> 00:28:42,487
CLOSE FRIEND AND CLIENT.
THE AGENCY HE FOUNDED - KLUTCH
SPORTS GROUP - MADE DEALS WORTH
ALMOST $900 MILLION THIS PAST

258
00:28:42,554 --> 00:28:49,928
SUMMER FOR HIS NBA CLIENTS
ALONE.
PAUL HONED HIS DEALMAKING
INSTINCTS AS A KID, NAVIGATING

259
00:28:49,994 --> 00:28:56,301
WHAT HE CALLED THE HOSTILE
STREETS OF HIS CLEVELAND
NEIGHBORHOOD.
TODAY, AT 42, HE'S REWRITING THE

260
00:28:56,367 --> 00:29:03,308
PLAYBOOK FOR REPRESENTING PRO
ATHLETES.
RICH PAUL TOLD US HE WAS LUCKY,
AND WHEN YOU HEAR HIS STORY, WE

261
00:29:03,374 --> 00:29:11,249
THINK YOU'LL UNDERSTAND WHY.
>> SO DID YOU USE TO COME TO
GAMES WHEN YOU WERE YOUNGER?
>> I WENT ONE TIME WHEN I HAD TO

262
00:29:11,316 --> 00:29:17,088
SIT ALL THE WAY UP AT THE TOP,
AND YOU REALLY COULDN'T --
COULDN'T SEE THE PERSON.
>> AND NOW --

263
00:29:17,155 --> 00:29:22,927
>> NOW IT'S, NOW --
>> -- YOU'RE SITTING ON THE
FLOOR.
WE JOINED RICH PAUL COURTSIDE AT

264
00:29:22,994 --> 00:29:29,834
A CLEVELAND CAVALIERS GAME LAST
SEASON.
HE SEEMED TO KNOW EVERYONE.
>> WHAT UP, DOG?

265
00:29:29,901 --> 00:29:36,608
WHAT'S GOOD?
>> AND IT SEEMED EVERYONE WANTED
TO KNOW HIM.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, I

266
00:29:36,674 --> 00:29:40,478
APPREC -- HEY, YOU'RE MY IDOL,
BRO.
>> THANK YOU, BROTHER.
I APPRECIATE IT.

267
00:29:40,545 --> 00:29:48,987
>> LAST YEAR PAUL GOT CLEVELAND
STAR DARIUS GARLAND A
$200 MILLION DEAL, THE RICHEST
IN FRANCHISE HISTORY.

268
00:29:49,053 --> 00:29:54,325
GARLAND IS ONE OF NEARLY 200
ATHLETES ON PAUL'S ROSTER.
>> WHO ARE SOME OF THE BIG NAMES
THAT WE WOULD ALL RECOGNIZE?

269
00:29:54,392 --> 00:30:00,665
>> WHICH SPORT DO YOU WANT?
I MEAN, WE JUST HAD JALEN HURTS
AND DeVONTA SMITH PLAY IN THE
SUPER BOWL FOR THE PHILADELPHIA

270
00:30:00,732 --> 00:30:09,174
EAGLES.
AND THEN YOU GOT THE ANTHONY
DAVISES AND THE DRAYMOND GREENS
AND OBVIOUSLY LeBRON.

271
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,411
>> DO -- DO YOU KNOW THE TOTAL
VALUE OF THE CONTRACTS YOU'VE
NEGOTIATED?
>> I WOULD SAY IT'S CLOSE TO

272
00:30:13,478 --> 00:30:19,817
$3 BILLION, I THINK?
>> IT'S MORE THAN $4 BILLION,
BUT IT'S HARD TO KEEP TRACK WHEN
YOU'RE ALWAYS ON THE GO.

273
00:30:19,884 --> 00:30:25,623
>> SHOWTIME, BABY!
>> BEFORE THE NBA DRAFT IN NEW
YORK CITY, WE WATCHED HIM WORK
THE PHONES.

274
00:30:25,690 --> 00:30:29,861
>> YOU KNOW, IT'S DRAFT DAY,
MAN.
ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN.
>> WORK THE ROOM.

275
00:30:29,928 --> 00:30:36,634
>> HEY, COACH SELF.
>> HOW ARE YOU DOING, MAN?
>> HOW ARE YOU DOING, MAN?
YOU ALL RIGHT --

276
00:30:36,701 --> 00:30:39,971
>> GOOD SEEING YOU.
>> AND WORK THE ANGLES TO MOVE
CLIENTS LIKE DUKE CENTER DERECK
LIVELY II UP THE DRAFT BOARD.

277
00:30:40,038 --> 00:30:45,276
>> YOU READY?
>> YES, SIR.
>> IN COLLEGE, LIVELY WAS KNOWN
FOR HIS DEFENSE.

278
00:30:45,343 --> 00:30:51,683
BUT PAUL HAD HIM WORK ON HIS
THREE-POINT SHOT AND, BEFORE THE
DRAFT, INVITED TEAMS TO SEE.
LIVELY SHOT UP TO THE 12th PICK,

279
00:30:51,749 --> 00:31:00,191
ABOUT TEN SPOTS HIGHER THAN
FIRST PROJECTED.
IT MIGHT NOT LOOK LIKE IT, BUT
RICH PAUL IS A TOWERING FIGURE

280
00:31:00,258 --> 00:31:08,700
IN THE NBA.
>> I'VE ALWAYS BEEN THE SMALLEST
GUY IN THE ROOM WILLING TO TAKE
THE BIGGEST SWING.

281
00:31:08,766 --> 00:31:16,207
>> SOME OF HIS BIGGEST SWINGS
HAVE BEEN FOR HIS BIGGEST
CLIENT, LeBRON JAMES.
PAUL NEGOTIATED HIS JUMPS FROM

282
00:31:16,274 --> 00:31:24,682
MIAMI, TO CLEVELAND, TO L.A.,
DEALS THAT NETTED JAMES
$400 MILLION AND SET HIM UP TO
WIN TWO OF HIS FOUR

283
00:31:24,749 --> 00:31:32,090
CHAMPIONSHIPS.
HE TOLD US HE WORKS TO GIVE
PLAYERS LEVERAGE.
>> SOME PEOPLE SAY THAT YOU ARE

284
00:31:32,156 --> 00:31:39,530
DESTROYING THE PLAYER LOYALTY TO
THE TEAMS AND THE FANS?
>> PLAYER LOYALTY TO WHAT?
IF I COULD BE TRADED IN THE

285
00:31:39,597 --> 00:31:50,141
MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT TO ANOTHER
TEAM, WHAT I SHOULD BE IS
EDUCATING MYSELF TO WHERE IF
THIS IS -- ISN'T GOING THE WAY I

286
00:31:50,208 --> 00:31:56,547
THOUGHT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO GO, I
CAN SWITCH IT UP, RIGHT?
WE'RE NOT CONFINED.
>> HAVE OPTIONS.

287
00:31:56,614 --> 00:32:02,420
>> I HAVE OP -- WHAT'S THE SENSE
OF HAVING MONEY WITH NO OPTIONS?
>> THAT'S APPARENTLY HOW
SUPERSTAR ANTHONY DAVIS FELT IN

288
00:32:02,487 --> 00:32:10,395
2018.
THE NEW ORLEANS CENTER HAD A
$127 MILLION CONTRACT BUT WAS
TIRED OF LOSING.

289
00:32:10,461 --> 00:32:18,369
SO HE FIRED HIS AGENT AND HIRED
RICH PAUL.
PAUL FLOUTED NBA RULES BY
PUBLICLY DEMANDING A TRADE,

290
00:32:18,436 --> 00:32:27,412
EARNING THE WRATH OF FANS AND A
$50,000 FINE FOR DAVIS.
THE DRAMA LANDED PAUL ON THE
COVER OF SPORTS ILLUSTRATED,

291
00:32:27,478 --> 00:32:36,454
WHICH CALLED HIM THE MOST
"POLARIZING FIGURE IN THE NBA."
>> WHEN IT WAS SOMEONE THAT
DIDN'T LOOK LIKE ME, IT WAS

292
00:32:36,521 --> 00:32:43,895
GENIUS, IT WAS WHY YOU GET A
POWER AGENT.
BUT WHEN IT'S ME, I'M DESTROYING
THE LEAGUE?

293
00:32:43,961 --> 00:32:55,039
I MEAN, THOSE THINGS ARE ABSURD.
>> HE GOT DAVIS WHAT HE WANTED,
A CHAMPIONSHIP RING AND A DEAL
NOW WORTH $270 MILLION.

294
00:32:55,106 --> 00:33:01,412
>> THERE'S A SAYING THAT GOES,
"IF YOU DON'T GOT NO HATERS, YOU
AIN'T POPPIN."
[ LAUGHTER ]

295
00:33:01,479 --> 00:33:07,852
>> SO YOU MUST BE POPPING?
>> I THINK I'M POPPING A LITTLE
BIT, YOU KNOW?
>> HE WAS POPPING A LOT AT HIS

296
00:33:07,919 --> 00:33:14,225
ANNUAL ALL-STAR GAME PARTY THIS
PAST WINTER IN SALT LAKE CITY.
>> WHAT'S UP, DOG?
>> WE DROPPED IN AND SAW GIANTS

297
00:33:14,292 --> 00:33:22,200
OF THE COURT MINGLING WITH
RAPPERS, TEAM OWNERS AND TITANS
OF INDUSTRY OVER COCKTAILS AND
CANAPES.

298
00:33:22,266 --> 00:33:30,708
RICH PAUL HAD A FULL PLATE OF
BUSINESS OPTIONS, ONE FROM THE
PRESIDENT OF GATORADE.
>> I WANT TO BE YOUR FIRST CALL.

299
00:33:30,775 --> 00:33:35,480
>> DONE.
>> WHILE WE WERE CHATTING WITH
HIM...
>> DAY DAY!

300
00:33:35,546 --> 00:33:41,953
>> GOLDEN STATE WARRIOR DRAYMOND
GREEN CUT IN.
THE FOUR-TIME NBA CHAMPION
CYCLED THROUGH TWO OTHER AGENTS

301
00:33:42,019 --> 00:33:47,692
BEFORE SIGNING UP WITH RICH
PAUL, WHO LANDED HIM A
$100 MILLION CONTRACT OVER THE
SUMMER.

302
00:33:47,759 --> 00:33:54,565
>> SO THEN, YOU END UP A YOUNG
BLACK MAN WHO'S MADE MORE MONEY
THAN YOU CAN EVER IMAGINE, BUT
YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO LIVE WITH

303
00:33:54,632 --> 00:34:00,471
IT, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO
WITH IT.
>> AND WHAT DOES HE DO?
>> MOST AGENTS TREAT ATHLETES AS

304
00:34:00,538 --> 00:34:05,877
IF THE ATHLETE WORKS FOR THEM.
BUT THERE'S A MULTIBILLION
DOLLAR BUSINESS GOING ON AROUND
MOST ATHLETES THAT THEY DON'T

305
00:34:05,943 --> 00:34:16,454
UNDERSTAND.
BUT THEY DON'T HAVE A RICH PAUL
TO TEACH THEM.
AND THAT'S WHAT'S SPECIAL ABOUT

306
00:34:16,521 --> 00:34:21,259
HIM.
>> PAUL'S IMPROBABLE JOURNEY --
THE SUBJECT OF HIS NEW MEMOIR
OUT THIS WEEK -- STARTED ON THE

307
00:34:21,325 --> 00:34:26,564
EAST SIDE OF CLEVELAND IN THE
EARLY 1980s, JUST AS CRACK
COCAINE HIT THE STREETS.
WHEN HE WAS ABOUT 4, HE LEARNED

308
00:34:26,631 --> 00:34:32,403
HIS MOTHER MINERVA WAS HOOKED ON
CRACK.
HIS FATHER, "BIG RICH,"
RECOGNIZED HIS SON'S

309
00:34:32,470 --> 00:34:38,776
INTELLIGENCE AND KEPT HIM CLOSE,
THOUGH THEY LIVED APART.
HE OWNED THE NEIGHBORHOOD
CONVENIENCE STORE.

310
00:34:38,843 --> 00:34:43,047
>> SO YOUR DAD'S STORE WAS JUST
RIGHT IN HERE?
>> YEAH.
AND THIS WAS -- THIS WAS MY

311
00:34:43,114 --> 00:34:48,853
WORLD.
>> THIS NOW EMPTY CORNER WAS A
HOTBED OF ACTIVITY -- LEGAL AND
ILLEGAL.

312
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:55,226
>> THERE WAS A SHOOTOUT RIGHT
HERE ON THIS CORNER.
>> BIG RICH TAUGHT HIS SON TO
ALWAYS THINK TWO STEPS AHEAD.

313
00:34:55,293 --> 00:35:00,531
HE SCRAPED TOGETHER THE MONEY TO
SEND HIM TO A CATHOLIC HIGH
SCHOOL AWAY FROM THE
NEIGHBORHOOD.

314
00:35:00,598 --> 00:35:04,836
STILL, THERE WAS NO AVOIDING THE
STREETS.
>> YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE
IN.

315
00:35:04,902 --> 00:35:10,675
>> THAT'S YOUR -- THAT'S YOUR
NORM?
>> THAT'S MY NORM.
SARDINES OUT THE CAN, THAT WAS

316
00:35:10,741 --> 00:35:17,048
TODAY'S VERSION OF TUNA TARTARE
ON THE WALDORF ROOFTOP, YOU
KNOW?
[ LAUGHTER ]

317
00:35:17,114 --> 00:35:24,489
THIS WAS MY EDUCATION, THOUGH.
THIS WAS MY HARVARD, MY
MICHIGAN, WAS MY MOREHOUSE, AND
THE SAME THINGS I LEARNED ON

318
00:35:24,555 --> 00:35:30,862
THIS CORNER, I TAKE IT TO THE
BOARDROOM BECAUSE THE ONE THING
THIS TEACHES YOU THAT I DON'T
THINK YOU CAN LEARN FROM THOSE

319
00:35:30,928 --> 00:35:39,904
INSTITUTIONS IS PEOPLE,
CHARACTERS, AND ON THESE
STREETS, IT'S NO BETTER WAY TO
LEARN CHARACTER BECAUSE THEY'RE

320
00:35:39,971 --> 00:35:47,845
COMING WITH EVERYTHING.
HIS DAD TAUGHT HIM ANOTHER
SKILL - A WAY TO MAKE MONEY IF
ALL ELSE FAILS - WITH A PAIR OF

321
00:35:47,912 --> 00:35:55,820
DICE.
PAUL AND HIS BEST FRIEND EDWARD
GIVENS WERE REGULARS AT AN
OPEN-AIR CASINO IN THE PARK.

322
00:35:55,887 --> 00:36:00,625
>> 50 PEOPLE CROWDED AROUND THIS
LITTLE AREA.
AND THE ENERGY WAS HIGH.
IT WAS, IT WAS AN ARENA.

323
00:36:00,691 --> 00:36:09,200
>> AND RICH PAUL WAS A NATURAL.
>> AND HOW MUCH WOULD YOU EARN?
>> I MEAN, A SLOW DAY WAS
$1,000.

324
00:36:09,267 --> 00:36:17,174
>> AND A NOT-SLOW DAY?
>> AH, YOU KNOW, 4 OR 5.
>> 4,000 OR $5,000?
>> YEAH.

325
00:36:17,241 --> 00:36:26,984
>> EASY.
>> EASY.
>> WHEN YOU WERE 14, 15, 16?
>> OH, YEAH.

326
00:36:27,051 --> 00:36:32,557
>> WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM THIS
EXPERIENCE?
>> YOU GAIN A RESILIENCE HERE.
WE WON MAJORITY OF THE TIME.

327
00:36:32,623 --> 00:36:37,862
BUT YOU ALSO HAD TO LEARN HOW TO
LOSE.
>> HE SUFFERED HIS BIGGEST LOSS
WHEN HE WAS 19.

328
00:36:37,929 --> 00:36:42,667
HIS FATHER DIED FROM CANCER, AND
PAUL WENT ALL IN ON THE STREETS,
SELLING MARIJUANA AND CRACK
COCAINE.

329
00:36:42,733 --> 00:36:50,107
>> THIS IS THE VERY DRUG THAT
YOUR MOTHER WAS HOOKED ON.
>> THE ABSENCE OF MY DAD ALLOWED
ME TO -- TO TAKE THAT STEP,

330
00:36:50,174 --> 00:37:01,252
BECAUSE I WOULD'VE NEVER DONE
THAT HAD HE BEEN AROUND.
I HAD TOO MUCH RESPECT FOR HIM.
AND IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT I

331
00:37:01,319 --> 00:37:08,726
WOULD SIT HERE AND GLORIFY.
>> IT ALMOST SOUNDS LIKE YOU
WERE A FULL-TIME HUSTLER.
>> OH, YEAH.

332
00:37:08,793 --> 00:37:17,768
BUT JEFF BEZOS IS A HUSTLER.
THINK HE'S NOT?
PHIL KNIGHT WAS THE ULTIMATE
HUSTLER.

333
00:37:17,835 --> 00:37:25,743
THE DIFFERENCE IS THEY COULD GO
WITH THEIR PLAN AND THEIR
BUSINESS IDEA AND GET SOMEONE TO
BELIEVE IN THEM.

334
00:37:25,810 --> 00:37:32,149
IT DIDN'T MATTER WHAT IDEA I
HAD.
THERE'S NO PATHWAY TO GET THERE.
>> HE FOUND ONE THROUGH A STROKE

335
00:37:32,216 --> 00:37:40,091
OF LUCK.
AT THE AKRON-CANTON AIRPORT IN
2001, PAUL WAS WEARING A
THROWBACK JERSEY, LIKE THIS ONE,

336
00:37:40,157 --> 00:37:48,065
THAT CAUGHT THE EYE OF ANOTHER
TRAVELER: HIGH SCHOOL HOOPS
SENSATION LeBRON JAMES.
>> WHAT DID YOU SEE IN HIM?

337
00:37:48,132 --> 00:37:53,938
>> IT BEGAN WITH HIM, YOU KNOW,
WEARING THE THROWBACK JERSEY
THAT I, YOU KNOW, LOVED.
BUT AS WE GOT TO TALKING ABOUT

338
00:37:54,005 --> 00:37:59,744
SPORTS, WE STARTED EVOLVING AND
EVEN TALKING MORE AND MORE JUST
ABOUT LIFE, AND ABOUT OUR
UPBRINGING ABOUT OUR MOMS AND,

339
00:37:59,810 --> 00:38:14,725
AND OUR COMMUNITIES, AND STUFF
OF THAT NATURE.
AND IT JUST KIND OF STRUCK.
IT JUST STRUCK A CHORD.

340
00:38:14,792 --> 00:38:20,564
WHEN JAMES ENTERED THE NBA, HE
HIRED RICH PAUL AS A RIGHT-HAND
MAN, PAUL WENT ON TO WORK FOR
LeBRON'S AGENT AND WATCHED,

341
00:38:20,631 --> 00:38:25,903
LISTENED AND LEARNED.
>> I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU WOULD
GO INTO MEETINGS WITH THE LIKES
OF WARREN BUFFETT?

342
00:38:25,970 --> 00:38:35,980
>> BEING IN THOSE ROOMS, IT'S
MUCH BETTER TO -- TO LISTEN THAN
TO TALK.
IF YOU LISTEN, YOU MIGHT

343
00:38:36,047 --> 00:38:42,887
ACTUALLY LEARN SOMETHING.
AND YOU START TO KIND OF, YOU
KNOW, WORK YOUR WAY ON YOUR OWN.
>> AFTER JUST FOUR YEARS, HE

344
00:38:42,953 --> 00:38:49,260
STRUCK OUT ON HIS OWN AND
LAUNCHED KLUTCH SPORTS GROUP IN
2012.
LeBRON JAMES WENT WITH HIM.

345
00:38:49,326 --> 00:38:56,133
>> WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED THIS,
YOU WERE UNDERESTIMATED?
>> NOT ONLY WAS I
UNDERESTIMATED, I WAS ALSO NOT

346
00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:02,606
WANTED.
I DIDN'T LOOK LIKE THE SUCCESS
IN OUR INDUSTRY, ESPECIALLY FROM
A PLACE OF DECISIONMAKING.

347
00:39:02,673 --> 00:39:08,446
AND I WANTED TO DISRUPT THE
INDUSTRY.
I WANTED TO BE IMPACTFUL, BUT I
WANTED TO COME FROM A PLACE OF

348
00:39:08,512 --> 00:39:15,352
PURPOSE.
>> IN 2013, WITH HIS FIRST
NEGOTIATION AS AGENT, FOR
PHOENIX SUNS GUARD ERIC BLEDSOE,

349
00:39:15,419 --> 00:39:22,793
HE PROVED THE NAY SAYERS WRONG.
HE SAID THE SUNS HAD OFFERED
$28 MILLION.
>> AND THEN $48 MILLION.

350
00:39:22,860 --> 00:39:30,735
>> AND YOU TURNED IT DOWN?
>> YEAH.
>> WHAT WAS ON THE LINE?
>> MY CAREER.

351
00:39:30,801 --> 00:39:35,539
EVERYONE WAS CALLING AND SAYING,
"HE'S CRAZY.
HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE'S DOING.
HE'S INEXPERIENCED."

352
00:39:35,606 --> 00:39:44,582
>> IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE REALLY
COMFORTABLE ROLLING THE DICE.
>> I WAS BORN A DICE ROLLER.
>> HIS GAMBLE PAID OFF.

353
00:39:44,648 --> 00:39:53,090
AFTER HANGING TOUGH FOR A YEAR,
KLUTCH GOT BLEDSOE A $70 MILLION
DEAL, $42 MILLION MORE THAN THE
SUNS' FIRST OFFER.

354
00:39:53,157 --> 00:39:59,997
>> GREAT ROOM.
>> TODAY, KLUTCH HAS 70
EMPLOYEES WITH OFFICES IN LOS
ANGELES, NEW YORK, AND ATLANTA.

355
00:40:00,064 --> 00:40:09,540
>> AND THEY'RE BOTH IN THE SAME
DRAFT CLASS.
>> PAUL TEAMED UP WITH
POWERHOUSE AGENCY UTA TO EXPAND

356
00:40:09,607 --> 00:40:19,116
KLUTCH'S REACH.
I HAD TO BUILD A MULTI-MILLION
COMPANY TO GET PEOPLE TO BELIEVE
IN ME, AND THERE'S STILL DOUBT.

357
00:40:19,183 --> 00:40:25,222
>> CRITICS SAY HE'S ONLY
SUCCESSFUL BECAUSE OF HIS
RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU?
>> I MEAN IT'S DISAPPOINTING TO

358
00:40:25,289 --> 00:40:31,228
HEAR THAT.
>> BUT YOU GAVE HIM AN
OPPORTUNITY.
>> YEAH.

359
00:40:31,295 --> 00:40:35,599
AND I DON'T GIVE PEOPLE
OPPORTUNITIES MUCH.
AND HE TOOK WELL WAY BEYOND THAN
WHAT HE EVEN IMAGINED.

360
00:40:35,666 --> 00:40:41,438
>> RICH PAUL NOW HAS A NEW
BALANCE SIGNATURE SHOE, A FIRST
FOR AN AGENT.
HIS PARTNER IS MORE FAMOUS THAN

361
00:40:41,505 --> 00:40:47,278
HE IS.
HE'S BEEN IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH
ADELE FOR TWO AND A HALF YEARS.
>> ADELE.

362
00:40:47,344 --> 00:40:52,583
>> SHE GAVE HIM A SHOUT OUT THE
GRAMMYS.
>> OH, GOD RICH!
HE TOLD -- HE SAID, DON'T CRY!

363
00:40:52,650 --> 00:40:57,354
IF YOU WIN ANYTHING TONIGHT,
DON'T CRY!
AND HERE I AM CRYING.
>> A COUPLE OF WEEKS LATER, AT

364
00:40:57,421 --> 00:41:03,294
HIS ALL-STAR GAME PARTY, PAUL'S
FRIENDS RECOGNIZED HIS
ACHIEVEMENTS.
>> THIS IS FROM US.

365
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:12,336
THIS IS FROM US.
>> WITH A $140,000 WATCH.
>> WOW, WOW, WOW.
>> DO YOU HAVE TO PINCH YOURSELF

366
00:41:12,403 --> 00:41:18,709
SOMETIMES?
>> ALL THE TIME.
I HAD IT WORSE THAN A LOT OF
PEOPLE, BUT I EVOLVED, I

367
00:41:18,776 --> 00:41:23,514
MATURED, I TRANSITIONED.
>> HOW DOES THAT FEEL?
>> FEELS GREAT.
IT FEELS EARNED, YOU KNOW?

368
00:41:23,581 --> 00:41:30,187
IT WASN'T GIVEN, FOR SURE, IT
WAS EARNED, WHICH IS GOOD.
I LIKE THAT.

369
00:41:44,935 --> 00:41:54,745
NEVER NEW THE LAST MINUTE IS
SPONSORED BY UNITED HEALTH CARE.
THERE FOR WHAT MATTERS.
>>> TONIGHT'S LAST MINUTE ISN'T

370
00:41:54,812 --> 00:42:00,050
REALLY TONIGHT'S LAST MINUTE
BECAUSE TONIGHT'S "60 MINUTES"
ISN'T REALLY 60 MINUTES.
STICK AROUND FOR AN EXTRA

371
00:42:00,117 --> 00:42:06,457
HALF-HOUR FOR LESLEY STAHL'S
LOOK AT HOW 3D PRINTING AND A
COMPANY CALLED ICON IS
REVOLUTIONIZING HOW WE BUILD,

372
00:42:06,523 --> 00:42:13,397
BOTH HERE ON EARTH AND --
EVENTUALLY -- BEYOND.
>> WHAT YOU'RE WATCHING IS THE
BUILDING.

373
00:42:13,464 --> 00:42:22,439
ACTUALLY, THE PRINTING OF A
FOUR-BEDROOM HOME.
ON THIS CONSTRUCTION SITE,
THERE'S NO HAMMERING OR SAWING,

374
00:42:22,506 --> 00:42:30,915
JUST A NOZZLE SQUIRTING OUT
CONCRETE.
AND BY THE END OF THE DECADE, AN
ICON PRINTER IS SUPPOSED TO FLY

375
00:42:30,981 --> 00:42:37,788
TO THE MOON TO TEST PRINT PART
OF A LANDING PAD.
>> I'M BILL WHITAKER.
WE'LL BE BACK WITH THIS EXPANDED

376
00:42:37,855 --> 00:42:43,360
EDITION OF "60 MINUTES" AFTER
THIS.

377
00:42:47,765 --> 00:42:54,672
>>> THERE WAS A TIME WHEN
FUTURISTS WERE PREDICTING THAT
THE ADVENT OF 3D PRINTING WAS
GOING TO CHANGE OUR LIVES, THAT

378
00:42:54,738 --> 00:43:03,247
EACH OF OUR HOUSES WOULD HAVE A
3D PRINTER TO MAKE WHATEVER
ITEMS WE NEED.
WHAT VIRTUALLY NO ONE PREDICTED,

379
00:43:03,314 --> 00:43:09,053
THOUGH, WAS THAT THERE MIGHT
SOON BE 3D PRINTERS THAT COULD
CONSTRUCT ALMOST THE ENTIRE
HOUSE.

380
00:43:09,119 --> 00:43:17,027
BUT THAT'S JUST WHAT A
6-YEAR-OLD AUSTIN, TEXAS,
COMPANY CALLED ICON IS DOING, 3D
PRINTING BUILDINGS.

381
00:43:17,094 --> 00:43:27,638
AND IF YOU BELIEVE ICON'S
MISSION-DRIVEN YOUNG FOUNDER, 3D
PRINTING COULD REVOLUTIONIZE HOW
WE BUILD, HELP CREATE AFFORDABLE

382
00:43:27,705 --> 00:43:36,680
HOUSING, EVEN ALLOW US TO, WAIT
FOR IT, COLONIZE THE MOON.
SOUND OUT OF THIS WORLD?
TAKE A LOOK.

383
00:43:36,747 --> 00:43:44,655
WHAT YOU'RE WATCHING IS THE
BUILDING.
ACTUALLY, THE PRINTING OF A
FOUR-BEDROOM HOME.

384
00:43:44,722 --> 00:43:53,697
ON THIS CONSTRUCTION SITE,
THERE'S NO HAMMERING OR SAWING,
JUST A NOZZLE SQUIRTING OUT
CONCRETE, KIND OF LIKE AN

385
00:43:53,764 --> 00:44:02,773
OVERSIZED SOFT SERVE ICE CREAM
DISPENSER, LAYING DOWN THE WALLS
OF A HOUSE ONE LAYER AT A TIME.
IT'S THE BRAINCHILD OF A

386
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:10,180
41-YEAR-OLD TEXAN WHO'S RARELY
WITHOUT HIS COWBOY HAT, JASON
BALLARD.
>> 3D PRINTING A HOUSE.

387
00:44:10,247 --> 00:44:14,451
>> YES, MA'AM.
>> PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HEAR THAT
AND SAY, "NO."
>> WE'RE SITTING INSIDE ONE

388
00:44:14,518 --> 00:44:19,223
RIGHT NOW.
>> THIS HOUSE WAS PRINTED?
>> YES, MA'AM.
>> OH.

389
00:44:19,289 --> 00:44:25,596
>> THERE YOU ARE.
>> LOOK AT THIS.
>> WELCOME.
>> AND SO WAS THIS ONE.

390
00:44:25,662 --> 00:44:30,901
DOES A CONCRETE HOME PRINTED BY
A ROBOT HAVE TO LOOK COLD AND
INDUSTRIAL?
MAYBE NOT.

391
00:44:30,968 --> 00:44:39,376
>> I LIKE THE CURVED WALL.
>> BALLARD GAVE US A PEEK AT THE
FIRST COMPLETED MODEL HOME IN
WHAT WILL SOON BE THE WORLD'S

392
00:44:39,443 --> 00:44:45,349
FIRST LARGE COMMUNITY OF 3D
PRINTED HOUSES, A HUNDRED OF
THEM.
PART OF A HUGE NEW DEVELOPMENT

393
00:44:45,416 --> 00:44:55,926
NORTH OF AUSTIN.
THEY'LL START IN THE HIGH
$400,000 RANGE.
HOW EXACTLY DOES 3D PRINTING A

394
00:44:55,993 --> 00:45:03,067
HOUSE WORK?
WELL, IT STARTS WITH THIS 1.5
TON SACK OF DRY CONCRETE POWDER,
WHICH GETS MIXED WITH WATER,

395
00:45:03,133 --> 00:45:11,041
SAND, AND ADDITIVES, AND IS THEN
PUMPED TO THE ROBOTIC PRINTER.
>> NOW YOU'RE LOOKING AT HOW WE
CONTROL THE BEAD SIZE.

396
00:45:11,108 --> 00:45:19,016
>> CONNER JENKINS, ICON'S
MANAGER OF CONSTRUCTION HERE,
EXPLAINED THAT THE PRINTER
COMPLETES ONE LAYER CALLED A

397
00:45:19,083 --> 00:45:25,889
"BEAD" EVERY 30 MINUTES, BY
WHICH TIME IT'S HARDENED ENOUGH
TO BE READY FOR THE NEXT BEAD.
STEEL IS ADDED EVERY TENTH LAYER

398
00:45:25,956 --> 00:45:30,127
FOR STRENGTH.
>> THE AMOUNT OF CHANGE YOU'RE
MAKING IS --
>> TINY.

399
00:45:30,194 --> 00:45:39,169
>> IT TAKES ABOUT TWO WEEKS TO
PRINT THE FULL 160-BEAD HOUSE.
JENKINS GAVE ME THE CONTROLS AND
iPAD.

400
00:45:39,236 --> 00:45:45,008
>> SO, LOOK, LESLEY, THAT'S A
LITTLE SKINNY.
WILL YOU PRESS THE PLUS 1% REAL
QUICK?

401
00:45:45,075 --> 00:45:50,314
>> AREN'T YOU WORRIED?
>> DONE.
YOU JUST INCREASED THE BEAD SIZE
INCREMENTALLY.

402
00:45:50,380 --> 00:45:55,619
>> I'D BE WORRIED IF I WERE YOU.
>> BUT TURNS OUT THE PATH IS
ENTIRELY PREPROGRAMMED.
I COULDN'T MESS IT UP IF I

403
00:45:55,686 --> 00:46:00,390
TRIED.
>> DON'T TELL THE PEOPLE.
>> I THINK THAT'S THE MOST
GORGEOUS BEAD I'VE EVER SEEN.

404
00:46:00,457 --> 00:46:05,796
I THINK THIS'LL BE THE HIGHEST
SELLING HOUSE.
[ LAUGHTER ]
>> FOR NOW, AS JASON BALLARD

405
00:46:05,863 --> 00:46:11,602
SHOWED US, ICON IS ONLY 3D
PRINTING WALLS, WITH CUTOUTS FOR
PLUMBING AND ELECTRICITY.
ROOFS, WINDOWS, AND INSULATION

406
00:46:11,668 --> 00:46:19,576
ARE ADDED THE OLD-FASHIONED WAY,
BY CONSTRUCTION WORKERS.
HE CALLS IT A PARADIGM SHIFT.
IT REALLY IS LIKE A WRIGHT

407
00:46:19,643 --> 00:46:25,949
BROTHERS MOMENT FOR AIRPLANES.
IN HOW WE CONSTRUCT OUR HOUSING.
>> BUT WHY DO WE NEED A BIG
SHIFT LIKE THAT?

408
00:46:26,016 --> 00:46:33,423
>> BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, IT IS TOO
EXPENSIVE, IT FALLS OVER IN A
HURRICANE, IT BURNS UP IN A
FIRE, IT GETS EATEN BY TERMITES.

409
00:46:33,490 --> 00:46:38,162
THE WAY YOU TRY TO MAKE IT
AFFORDABLE IS YOU TRIM QUALITY
ON MATERIALS.
YOU TRIM QUALITY ON LABOR.

410
00:46:38,228 --> 00:46:44,034
THE RESULT IS THESE COOKIE
CUTTER DEVELOPMENTS.
AND, LIKE, THIS IS NOT THE
WOR -- LIKE, WE ARE NOT

411
00:46:44,101 --> 00:46:48,272
SUCCEEDING AT SOMETHING WE HAVE
TO GET RIGHT.
AND, ON TOP OF THAT, IT'S AN
ECOLOGICAL DISASTER.

412
00:46:48,338 --> 00:46:54,178
AND I WOULD CERTAINLY SAY, IT IS
EXISTENTIALLY URGENT THAT WE
SHELTER OURSELVES WITHOUT
RUINING THE PLANET WE HAVE TO

413
00:46:54,244 --> 00:46:58,916
LIVE ON.
>> FIRE RESISTANT, FLOOD
RESISTANT.
>> BALLARD SHOWED US A SAMPLE OF

414
00:46:58,982 --> 00:47:06,957
A 3D PRINTED WALL BESIDE A
CONVENTIONALLY BUILT ONE.
>> YOU SAY IT'S FASTER, MORE
EFFICIENT.

415
00:47:07,024 --> 00:47:11,195
>> YES.
>> WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?
WHAT YOU'VE GOT, LET'S COUNT THE
MATERIALS.

416
00:47:11,261 --> 00:47:16,500
SIDING, ONE.
MOISTURE BARRIER, TWO.
SHEATHING, THREE.
STUD, FOUR.

417
00:47:16,567 --> 00:47:21,805
DRYWALL, FIVE.
AND THEN FLOAT TAPE AND TEXTURE,
YOU CAN COUNT THAT EITHER AS ONE
OR THREE, BUT YOU'VE GOT AT

418
00:47:21,872 --> 00:47:27,644
LEAST HALF A DOZEN NOVEL STEPS
THAT HAVE TO TAKE PLACE TO
DELIVER AN AMERICAN STICK FRAME
WALL SYSTEM.

419
00:47:27,711 --> 00:47:31,915
BY COMPARISON, WE NEED A SINGLE
MATERIAL SUPPLY CHAIN, DELIVERED
BY A ROBOT.
>> LET'S TALK ABOUT WASTE.

420
00:47:31,982 --> 00:47:36,687
>> YES, MA'AM.
>> OVER HERE.
>> AT THE END OF CONSTRUCTING A
HOME WITH THESE MATERIALS, THERE

421
00:47:36,753 --> 00:47:41,425
ARE TRUCKLOADS, AND TRUCKLOADS
OF WASTE LEFT OVER.
THESE STUDS ARE GOING TO HAVE
OFF-CUTS THAT GO INTO A WASTE

422
00:47:41,491 --> 00:47:48,365
PILE.
SAME WITH SIDING, SOME WITH
DRYWALL.
>> WHEREAS WITH 3D PRINTING, HE

423
00:47:48,432 --> 00:47:53,670
SAYS, YOU ONLY PRINT WHAT YOU
NEED.
SO, IN SHORT, LIKE IF AN ALIEN
CAME SOWN TO PLANET EARTH AND

424
00:47:53,737 --> 00:47:57,140
SAW THESE TWO WAYS OF BUILDING
SAID, "FROM FIRST PRINCIPLES,
WHICH IS BETTER?"
THE ALIEN WOULD GO, "STRONGER,

425
00:47:57,207 --> 00:48:07,651
FASTER, TERMITE RESISTANT, FIRE
RESISTANT," LIKE BY A MILE THIS
IS THE BEST WAY TO BUILD.
>> THOUGH OLD-SCHOOL

426
00:48:07,718 --> 00:48:16,159
CONSTRUCTION WORKERS MAY
DISAGREE, IF BALLARD SOUNDS A
LITTLE LIKE A REVVED-UP SALESMAN
OR A PREACHER, THERE'S A REASON

427
00:48:16,226 --> 00:48:26,970
FOR THAT.
HE GREW UP IN EAST TEXAS, A
STUDIOUS, OUTDOORSY, SPIRITUAL
KID, IN HIS FAMILY TO GRADUATE

428
00:48:27,037 --> 00:48:31,508
FROM COLLEGE.
>> YOU WERE THINKING ABOUT
BECOMING AN EPISCOPAL PRIEST.
>> YEAH, I WAS ALMOST AN

429
00:48:31,575 --> 00:48:42,219
EPISCOPAL PRIEST.
BUT ALONG THE WAY, I STARTED
JUST GET, LIKE, THIS ITCH ABOUT
HOUSING NOT BEING RIGHT.

430
00:48:42,286 --> 00:48:49,793
SO I STUDIED CONSERVATION
BIOLOGY.
A GOT INVOLVED IN SUSTAINABLE
HOUSING.

431
00:48:49,860 --> 00:48:57,634
AND ALONG THE WAY, MY HOMETOWN
GETS DESTROYED BY A HURRICANE.
AND I HAVE TO GO HELP MY FAMILY
PULL DRYWALL OUT OF THEIR HOUSE.

432
00:48:57,701 --> 00:49:06,910
I GO TO THE BISHOP OF TEXAS,
ANDY DOYLE.
AND HE SAID, JASON, I WANT YOU
TO PURSUE THIS HOUSING THING,

433
00:49:06,977 --> 00:49:13,050
LIKE, THIS IS YOUR PRIESTHOOD,
THIS IS YOUR VOCATION.
AND IF IT DOESN'T WORK OUT, THE
CHURCH HAS BEEN HERE FOR A LONG

434
00:49:13,116 --> 00:49:16,953
TIME, WE'LL STILL BE HERE.
>> BUT THAT MUST'VE TURNED THE
SWITCH FOR YOU.
>> IT DID.

435
00:49:17,020 --> 00:49:23,827
IT MADE IT MORE THAN A HOBBY OR
A BUSINESS, RIGHT, THAT IT SORT
OF BECAME A MISSION.
>> HE BEGAN PURSUING THAT

436
00:49:23,894 --> 00:49:31,101
MISSION WITH EVAN LOOMIS, A
BUDDY FROM TEXAS A&M WHO HAD
GONE INTO FINANCE.
>> AS WE LOOKED AT IT, NOBODY

437
00:49:31,168 --> 00:49:38,108
HAD INCORPORATED KIND OF THE
HOLY TRINITY OF INNOVATION TO
HOUSING, WHICH WAS ROBOTICS,
ADVANCED MATERIALS, AND

438
00:49:38,175 --> 00:49:43,447
SOFTWARE.
>> SO, IN A BORROWED WAREHOUSE
ON NIGHTS AND WEEKENDS, AND
HAVING READ EVERYTHING THEY

439
00:49:43,513 --> 00:49:50,887
COULD FIND ABOUT THE MECHANICS
OF 3D PRINTING, THEY TRIED TO
DESIGN A 3D PRINTER THAT COULD
MAKE A BUILDING.

440
00:49:50,954 --> 00:49:57,060
>> HOW BIG WAS IT?
>> IT WAS TEN FEET BY TEN FEET
BY TEN FEET.
SO IT WOULD'VE PRINTED -- IF WE

441
00:49:57,127 --> 00:50:03,433
HAD EVER GOT IT TO WORK, WHICH
WE DID NOT, IT WOULD'VE PRINTED
LIKE A 100 SQUARE FOOT
DEMONSTRATION BUILDING.

442
00:50:03,500 --> 00:50:12,843
>> THEY DIDN'T GET IT TO WORK,
BUT ENTER A RECENT BAYLOR
ENGINEERING GRADUATE WHO WAS
TINKERING WITH A SIMILAR IDEA.

443
00:50:12,909 --> 00:50:16,680
DID YOU EVER ACTUALLY BUILD
ANYTHING?
>> YEAH, I DID.
WHAT WAS IT?

444
00:50:16,747 --> 00:50:26,356
>> THEY PRINTED SHED.
SHED DOESN'T SOUND TOO COOL, BUT
IT WAS A BIG MILESTONE.
>> THE THREE CO-FOUNDED ICON IN

445
00:50:26,423 --> 00:50:34,765
2017 AND SOON GOT FUNDING TO
PRINT A SMALL HOUSE TO UNVEIL AT
AUSTIN'S SOUTH BY SOUTHWEST
FESTIVAL THE FOLLOWING SPRING.

446
00:50:34,831 --> 00:50:43,173
THEY BUILT A NEW LARGER PRINTER
THAT WORKED.
>> WE GOT REALLY EXCITED.
>> OKAY, JASON, WHERE ARE WE

447
00:50:43,240 --> 00:50:47,511
RIGHT NOW?
>> WE ARE PRINTING THE WORLD'S
FIRST PERMITTED 3D PRINTED
HOUSE.

448
00:50:47,577 --> 00:50:52,883
>> BUT THE KINKS HADN'T QUITE
BEEN WORKED OUT.
>> SO AT ONE POINT WE RAN THE
PRINTER INTO THE PRINT.

449
00:50:52,949 --> 00:50:59,856
>> EXPLAIN THAT.
>> IT'S SUPPOSED TO GO UP AND IT
WENT DOWN AND THEN DROVE INTO
THE HOUSE, PUSHED A BUNCH OF

450
00:50:59,923 --> 00:51:05,595
LAYERS OFF.
>> FUNNY NOW, BUT NOT SO MUCH AT
THE TIME.
>> FOLKS, ENGINEERS SAT US DOWN

451
00:51:05,662 --> 00:51:12,436
AND SAID, GUYS, THIS HAS BEEN A
GREAT EFFORT, BUT WHY DON'T YOU
GUYS GET SOME REST.
AND WE WERE BASICALLY, LIKE, GET

452
00:51:12,502 --> 00:51:18,408
OUT OF HERE.
ANYONE WHO WANTS TO FINISH THIS
HOME MAY STAY, EVERYONE ELSE
NEEDS TO LEAVE.

453
00:51:18,475 --> 00:51:23,613
>> AND THE THREE OF YOU ALL
AGREED ON THAT?
>> YEAH.
>> WE KNEW THAT WE WERE ONTO

454
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:27,918
SOMETHING.
THIS WAS LIKE OUR SHOT, AND WE
WEREN'T GOING TO MISS IT.
>> ALEX?

455
00:51:27,984 --> 00:51:40,197
>> THEY WORKED ROUND THE CLOCK
AND MADE THE FESTIVAL DEADLINE
BY JUST HOURS.
>> ANY WORDS FROM THE VICTORY

456
00:51:40,263 --> 00:51:45,602
LOT?
>> NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER
GIVE UP.
>> I STAND BY THOSE WORDS.

457
00:51:45,669 --> 00:51:52,742
>> NEVER GIVE UP.
>> HE SHOWED US THE
350-SQUARE-FOOT FINISHED HOUSE.
IT'S A SMALL LITTLE HOUSE, BUT

458
00:51:52,809 --> 00:51:58,715
IT'S KIND OF ELEGANT.
>> IT'S NOT SO BAD.
I THINK IT'S KIND OF HOW PEOPLE
FELT ABOUT IT.

459
00:51:58,782 --> 00:52:07,858
IT WAS EASY TO BELIEVE, WELL,
THEY'LL GET BETTER.
>> THAT SMALL LITTLE HOUSE WON
ICON A LOT OF ATTENTION AND

460
00:52:07,924 --> 00:52:16,766
INNOVATION AWARD, INVESTORS,
MEETINGS WITH THE MILITARY, AND
WITH ANOTHER AUSTIN INNOVATOR,
ALAN GRAHAM WHO CREATED A

461
00:52:16,833 --> 00:52:25,008
VILLAGE CALLED COMMUNITY FIRST
THAT PROVIDES SMALL HOMES TO
SEVERAL HUNDRED OF THE FORMERLY
HOMELESS.

462
00:52:25,075 --> 00:52:32,415
>> OUR GOAL WAS REALLY THE MOST
DESPISED OUTCAST, LOST AND
FORGOTTEN OF OUR COMMUNITY.
AVERAGE TIME ON THE STREETS IS

463
00:52:32,482 --> 00:52:37,954
NINE YEARS, AVERAGE AGE OF DEATH
IS 59.
>> IT'S AN ABSOLUTE MIRACLE OUT
THERE.

464
00:52:38,021 --> 00:52:43,994
AND SO WHEN WE WERE READY TO
START BUILDING HOMES, ONE OF THE
FIRST ORGANIZATIONS WE REACHED
OUT TO WAS ALAN GRAHAM.

465
00:52:44,060 --> 00:52:54,504
>> SO, ICON 3D PRINTED A WELCOME
CENTER, AND THEN SIX SMALL
HOUSES FOR VILLAGE RESIDENTS.
THAT'S HOW 73-YEAR-OLD TIM SHAY,

466
00:52:54,571 --> 00:53:06,449
WHO BATTLED HEROIN ADDICTION FOR
DECADES, IN 2020, BECAME THE
FIRST PERSON IN THIS COUNTRY TO
LIVE IN A 3D PRINTED HOME.

467
00:53:06,516 --> 00:53:12,756
>> BEFORE I SAW THESE HOUSES, IN
MY MIND, I THOUGHT, IT MUST BE
COLD.
YOU'RE SHAKING BECAUSE YOU DON'T

468
00:53:12,822 --> 00:53:18,528
THINK THAT.
>> NO.
YOU FEEL EMBRACED OR, YOU KNOW,
ENVELOPED.

469
00:53:18,595 --> 00:53:25,402
>> PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THE
ECONOMIC STRATA OF THE MEN AND
WOMEN THAT WE SERVE ARE GOING TO
BE THE LAST PEOPLE ON THE PLANET

470
00:53:25,468 --> 00:53:31,041
THAT ARE GOING TO BENEFIT OUT OF
NEW TECHNOLOGY.
AND HE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT
THEY WERE THE FIRST.

471
00:53:31,107 --> 00:53:38,381
>> THE FIRST PERSON IN NORTH
AMERICA TO LIVE IN A 3D PRINTED
HOUSE WAS HOMELESS?
>> YEAH.

472
00:53:38,448 --> 00:53:47,023
ISN'T THAT SOMETHING?
>> THE YEARS SINCE HAVE SEEN
TREMENDOUS GROWTH FOR ICON.
A NEW FACTORY TO BUILD MORE

473
00:53:47,090 --> 00:53:55,065
PRINTERS AND IMPROVE THE QUALITY
OF ITS CONCRETE, AND A FACILITY
CALLED PRINT LAND TO EXPERIMENT
WITH NEW DESIGNS.

474
00:53:55,131 --> 00:54:05,208
ICON HAS PRINTED SMALL HOMES IN
RURAL MEXICO, VEHICLE HIDE
STRUCTURES FOR THE MARINE CORPS,
HUGE BARRACKS FOR THE ARMY AND

475
00:54:05,275 --> 00:54:15,118
AIR FORCE, AND A DELUXE SHOWCASE
HOME FEATURING WAVY WALLS AND
CURVES THAT WOULD BE
PROHIBITIVELY EXPENSIVE IF BUILT

476
00:54:15,185 --> 00:54:20,924
TRADITIONALLY.
BUT NOT WHEN PROGRAMMED INTO A
3D PRINTER.
SO, IN YOUR MINDS, IS YOUR

477
00:54:20,991 --> 00:54:29,566
CUSTOMER A HOMELESS PERSON?
OR IS YOUR CUSTOMER ME?
>> THERE'S A TRICK HERE BECAUSE
WHAT OUR HEART WANTS TO DO IS TO

478
00:54:29,633 --> 00:54:36,506
SERVE THE VERY POOR.
AND IT'S OFTEN BEEN CONFUSING
FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND, I
THOUGHT YOU GUYS WERE HELPING

479
00:54:36,573 --> 00:54:44,981
HOMELESSNESS, WHY WERE YOU
BUILDING A FANCY HOUSE?
I WOULD RESIGN IF I WAS ONLY
ALLOWED TO BUILD LUXURY ROAMS.

480
00:54:45,048 --> 00:54:51,821
WE WOULD GO BANKRUPT RIGHT NOW
IF WE ONLY BUILT 3% MARGIN HOMES
FOR HOMELESS PEOPLE.
BUT ONCE THIS TECHNOLOGY ARRIVES

481
00:54:51,888 --> 00:54:56,893
AND IT'S FULL FORCE, I THINK IT
FUNDAMENTALLY TRANSFORMS THE WAY
WE BUILD.
>> AND NOT JUST ON THE EARTH.

482
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:05,635
3D PRINTING ON THE MOON, WHEN WE
COME BACK.

483
00:55:10,173 --> 00:55:16,880
>>> IT HAS BEEN A STAPLE OF
SCIENCE FICTION FOREVER.
HUMANS LIVING AND WORKING ON THE
MOON.

484
00:55:16,946 --> 00:55:25,855
BUT FOR NASA, THAT DREAM IS
ALMOST WITHIN REACH.
THEIR NEW ARTEMIS PROGRAM PLANS
TO RETURN AMERICAN ASTRONAUTS TO

485
00:55:25,922 --> 00:55:34,197
THE MOON FOR THE FIRST TIME IN
MORE THAN 50 YEARS.
THIS TIME, NOT JUST TO VISIT,
BUT EVENTUALLY TO STAY, AND EVEN

486
00:55:34,264 --> 00:55:43,540
USE THE MOON AS A BASE FOR
EXPLORING MARS AND BEYOND.
BUT STAYING ON THE MOON REQUIRES
INFRASTRUCTURE, LANDING PADS,

487
00:55:43,606 --> 00:55:54,017
ROADS, HOUSING, AND YOU CAN'T
EXACTLY BRING TWO-BY-FOURS AND
SHEETROCK ON A SPACECRAFT.
THAT'S WHERE 3D PRINTING COMES

488
00:55:54,084 --> 00:56:03,059
IN.
NASA IS PARTNERING WITH JASON
BALLARD'S COMPANY ICON TO
PIONEER 3D PRINTING ON THE MOON.

489
00:56:03,126 --> 00:56:13,403
>> THREE, TWO, ONE, AND LIFTOFF
OF ARTEMIS I.
>> LAST FALL, NASA LAUNCHED THE
FIRST IN A SERIES OF ARTEMIS

490
00:56:13,470 --> 00:56:20,877
MISSIONS.
THE NEXT, WITH CREW ON BOARD, IS
SCHEDULED FOR NEXT FALL.
AND BY THE END OF THE DECADE, AN

491
00:56:20,944 --> 00:56:28,818
ICON PRINTER IS SUPPOSED TO FLY
TO THE MOON TO TEST PRINT PART
OF A LANDING PAD.
JASON BALLARD, WHO ONCE APPLIED

492
00:56:28,885 --> 00:56:36,459
TO BE AN ASTRONAUT BUT WAS
REJECTED, CAN'T WAIT.
>> IF THE SCHEDULE HOLDS OR EVEN
APPROXIMATELY HOLDS, THE FIRST

493
00:56:36,526 --> 00:56:42,365
OBJECT EVER BUILT ON ANOTHER
WORLD WILL BE BUILT WITH ICON
HARDWARE.
>> HE WANTS ICON TO BE THE FIRST

494
00:56:42,432 --> 00:56:49,272
COMPANY TO MAKE SOMETHING ON
ANOTHER WORLD.
>> SO DO WE.
>> AT MARSHALL SPACE FLIGHT

495
00:56:49,339 --> 00:57:04,120
CENTER IN HUNTSVILLE, ALABAMA,
NASA SCIENTISTS JENNIFER
EDMUNSON AND CORKY CLINTON RUN A
PROGRAM CALLED IMPACT, SPELLED

496
00:57:04,187 --> 00:57:08,224
M.M.P.A.C.T.
>> MOON TO MARS PLANETARY
AUTONOMOUS CONSTRUCTION
TECHNOLOGIES.

497
00:57:08,291 --> 00:57:12,162
>> WHOA.
YOU PEOPLE AT NASA, YOU COME UP
WITH THESE VERY, VERY LONG
NAMES.

498
00:57:12,228 --> 00:57:18,001
>> THAT'S WHY WE CALL IT MMPACT.
>> THE KEYWORD THERE IS
AUTONOMOUS.
>> WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO MAKE

499
00:57:18,067 --> 00:57:23,373
STRUCTURES THAT WE NEED WITHOUT
HAVING TO BE TENDED BY
ASTRONAUTS.
>> IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A

500
00:57:23,439 --> 00:57:29,546
TRULY SUSTAINABLE PRESENCE ON
THE LUNAR SURFACE, YOU HAVE TO
BE AS EARTH INDEPENDENT AS
POSSIBLE.

501
00:57:29,612 --> 00:57:35,552
>> NASA WAS INTERESTED IN 3D
PRINTING, HAVING LOOKED AT AN
EARLY VERSION ALMOST 20 YEARS
AGO.

502
00:57:35,618 --> 00:57:42,592
SO WHEN THEY HEARD ABOUT THE
PROGRESS ICON HAD MADE WITH
THEIR FIRST HOUSES IN AUSTIN,
CORKY CLINTON TRAVELED THERE TO

503
00:57:42,659 --> 00:57:49,098
TAKE A LOOK.
>> BEING AN ENGINEER, I SPENT A
LOT OF MY TIME GOING AROUND AND
LOOKING AT THE SIZE OF THE BEADS

504
00:57:49,165 --> 00:57:55,004
AND HOW THEY WENT AROUND THE
CORNERS, AND I'LL TELLA, I WAS
REALLY IMPRESSED WITH WHAT THEY
HAD ACCOMPLISHED.

505
00:57:55,071 --> 00:58:05,348
>> IMPRESSED ENOUGH THAT NASA
GAVE ICON DEVELOPMENT MONEY IN
2020, AND THEN LAST FALL, A
$57 MILLION CONTRACT.

506
00:58:05,415 --> 00:58:13,323
>> WELCOME TO SPACELAB, LESLEY.
THIS IS WHERE WE FIGURE OUT HOW
TO BUILD ON OTHER WORLDS.
>> BALLARD AND EVAN JENSEN, WHO

507
00:58:13,389 --> 00:58:20,330
LEADS THE PROJECT, EXPLAINED THE
FUNDAMENTAL CHALLENGE.
>> TO BRING AN OBJECT ROUGHLY
THIS SIZE FROM EARTH TO THE

508
00:58:20,396 --> 00:58:26,502
MOON'S SURFACE WOULD BE
$1 MILLION.
AND THINK OF HOW MANY SORT OF
BRICK-SIZED THINGS WE WOULD NEED

509
00:58:26,569 --> 00:58:31,975
TO DO LAUNCH PADS, ROADS, WE
HAVE TO LEARN TO LIVE OFF THE
LAND.
>> YOU HAVE TO LEARN TO BUILD IT

510
00:58:32,041 --> 00:58:38,414
THERE AND USE THE MATERIALS
THERE THERE.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> BUT THAT'S NO EASY FAETD IT.

511
00:58:38,481 --> 00:58:46,990
>> MEANS USING WHAT'S CALLED
LUNAR REGOLITH, WHICH COVERS THE
MOON'S SURFACE, RATHER THAN
CONCRETE AND WATER, AS A

512
00:58:47,056 --> 00:58:56,165
BUILDING MATERIAL.
>> REGOLITH IS MADE UP OF ROCK
THAT HAS PUMMELLED OVER BILLIONS
OF YEARS FROM ASTEROIDS, COMETS.

513
00:58:56,232 --> 00:59:01,337
>> IS IT LIKE SAND?
>> IT'S ACTUALLY FINER THAN
SAND.
>> ICON HAS A BIG TUB FULL OF

514
00:59:01,404 --> 00:59:08,611
SIMULATED MOON REGOLITH.
AND THEY HAVE INVENTED AND BUILT
A ROBOTIC SYSTEM TO 3D PRINT
WITH IT.

515
00:59:08,678 --> 00:59:12,215
>> YOU'RE GOING TO BUILD ALL
THOSE ROADS AND BUILDINGS OUT OF
THIS?
>> THAT'S CORRECT.

516
00:59:12,282 --> 00:59:20,790
THE ROBOTS WILL.
>> THIS IS ACTUALLY THE MISSION
THAT WE ARE SCHEDULED TO FLY.
>> AS HE POINTED OUT IN THIS

517
00:59:20,857 --> 00:59:24,761
RENDERING --
>> OUR ROBOTIC ARM WITH OUR
LASER SYSTEM.
>> THEY'VE CREATED A WHOLE NEW

518
00:59:24,827 --> 00:59:33,202
WAY TO 3D PRINT WITH LASERS.
INSTEAD OF A NOZZLE SQUIRTING
OUT SOFT CONCRETE, A
HIGH-INTENSITY LASER BEAM WILL

519
00:59:33,269 --> 00:59:42,679
MELT THE POWDERY REGOLITH TO
TRANSFORM IT INTO A HARD, STRONG
BUILDING MATERIAL.
THEY'RE RUNNING EXPERIMENTS NOW

520
00:59:42,745 --> 00:59:50,586
USING THE LASER TO CREATE A
SMALL SAMPLE.
>> ONCE THAT RED LIGHT IS ON,
WE'RE HOT, LOTS OF POWER.

521
00:59:50,653 --> 00:59:58,227
HERE WE GO.
>> WE WATCHED ON MONITORS AS THE
ARM GOT INTO POSITION.
>> THERE'S THE LASER.

522
00:59:58,294 --> 01:00:04,834
OH THAT, WHITE THING'S THE
LASER.
>> SO IT'S MELTING RIGHT NOW.
IT'S GOING UP TO, SAY, 1500

523
01:00:04,901 --> 01:00:09,038
DEGREES CELSIUS.
IT'S GOING TO COMPLETE ITS
SECOND PASS.
SEE THE DARK OBJECT ON THE

524
01:00:09,105 --> 01:00:13,977
SCREEN?
THAT'S THE OBJECT WE JUST MADE
WITH THE LASER.
>> THEY CAN ADD MORE REGOLITH

525
01:00:14,043 --> 01:00:21,818
AND LASER AGAIN AND AGAIN TO
BUILD IN LAYERS TO GO AS HIGH AS
THEY WANT, WHICH WILL BE DONE
REMOTELY FROM EARTH.

526
01:00:21,884 --> 01:00:32,261
IT TAKES HOURS TO COOL, SO THEY
SHOWED ME A SAMPLE THEY'D MADE
DAYS EARLIER.
>> THIS IS PRETTY DARN HARD.

527
01:00:32,328 --> 01:00:39,068
>> THAT'S OUR LANDING PAD.
YOU'RE HOLDING IT.
>> IT'S PRETTY COOL.
>> THAT'S A SCIENTIFIC TERM.

528
01:00:39,135 --> 01:00:47,777
>> ICON SENDS THEM TO NASA WHERE
THEY'RE BLASTED WITH THE SPECIAL
PLASMAMA TORCH.
>> THE TORCH WILL BE ABOUT 4,000

529
01:00:47,844 --> 01:00:57,120
DEGREES.
>> TO SEE IF THEY CAN TAKE THE
HEAT, A LANDING PAD WOULD HAVE
TO WITHSTAND.

530
01:00:57,186 --> 01:01:04,127
>> SEE THERE.
>> OH, THERE IT IS.
>> THE TORCH IS SO BRIGHT, YOU
HAVE TO WATCH ON A MONITOR.

531
01:01:04,193 --> 01:01:11,701
>> THAT WAS IT.
>> A FEW MINUTES LATER, OUT IT
CAME.
>> OH, IT'S JUST A LITTLE BIT

532
01:01:11,768 --> 01:01:16,005
WARM.
>> IT LOOKS GOOD TO ME.
I DON'T SEE ANY LOSS OF
MATERIAL.

533
01:01:16,072 --> 01:01:21,878
I DON'T SEE ANY CRATERING.
>> IT SURVIVED THE TEST?
>> PASSED THE TEST WITH FLYING
COLORS.

534
01:01:21,944 --> 01:01:30,853
>> THE NEXT TEST WILL BE
OPERATING THE ENTIRE ROBOTIC ARM
AND LASER.
>> WE'LL PUT IN A LARGE-SCALE

535
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:38,161
SIMPLANT BED.
>> INSIDE NASA'S GIANT THERMAL
VACUUM CHAMBER, WHICH MIMICS THE
MOON'S EXTREME COLD, HEAT, AND

536
01:01:38,227 --> 01:01:44,267
VACUUM CONDITIONS.
>> THIS IS SORT OF LIKE --
>> BALLARD'S IDEA IS TO
EVENTUALLY SEND MOBILE 3D

537
01:01:44,333 --> 01:01:49,839
PRINTERS TO THE MOON.
>> SO THIS MOVES THE PRINTER
AROUND.
>> WITH A LONGER ROBOTIC ARM