>>> BIG TECH'S OUT TO GET CONSERVATIVES. THAT'S NOT A SUSPICIOUS. THAT'S NOT A HUNCH.
THAT'S A FACT. >> CONSERVATIVES ARE MAKING SERIOUS LEGAL CHALLENGES TO THE QUESTION OF WHAT CONSTITUTES
FREE SPEECH ON SOCIAL MEDIA SITES. WHAT ARE FACTS? WHAT IS MISINFORMATION?
AND IS POLICING THEM CENSORSHIP? ALL OF THIS BEING DECIDED MONTHS BEFORE THE 2024 ELECTION. >> I THINK YOU LET THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE RESPECT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, THEIR COMMON SENSE, TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S ACCURATE, WHAT ISN'T.
>>> THE CRISIS ON THE U.S. SOUTHERN BORDER HAS EMERGED AS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUES IN THIS YEAR'S PRESIDENTIAL
ELECTION. BUT IT'S THIS PRESIDENT, MEXICO'S CONTROVERSIAL ANDRES MANUEL LOPEZ OBRADOR WHO MAY
HAVE MORE CONTROL OVER WHAT HAPPENS THERE THAN ANYONE. >> YOUR CRITICS HAVE SAID WHAT YOU'RE DOING, WHAT YOU'RE ASKING
FOR TO SECURE THE BORDER, IS DIPLOMATIC BLACKMAIL. >>> 168 COUNTRIES, INCLUDING CHINA, HAVE SIGNED ON TO THE
UNITED NATIONS LAW OF THE SEA, A TREATY THAT DIVVIES UP THE INTERNATIONAL SEABED FOR THE MINING OF PRECIOUS METALS, VITAL
FOR EVERYTHING FROM ELECTRIC CARS TO DEFENSE SYSTEMS. ABSENT FROM THE TREATY, THE UNITED STATES.
>> THE UNITED STATES PROBABLY HAS GOT THE MOST TO GAIN OF ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD IF IT WERE PARTY TO THE LAW OF THE SEA
CONVENTION. AND CONVERSELY, WE PROBABLY HAVE THE MOST TO LOSE BY NOT BEING PART OF IT.
>> I'M LESLEY STAHL. >> I'M BILL WHITAKER. >> I'M SHARYN ALFONSI. >> I'M JON WERTHEIM.
>> I'M CECILIA VEGA. >> I'M NORAH O'DONNELL. >> I'M SCOTT PELLEY. THOSE STORIES AND MORE TONIGHT
ON "60 MINUTES." >>> THIS PORTION OF "60 MINUTES" IS SPONSORED BY PROGRESSIVE >>> AS BIG TECH FIRMS WRESTLE
WITH HOW TO KEEP FALSE AND HARMFUL INFORMATION OFF THEIR SOCIAL NETWORKS, THE SUPREME COURT IS WRESTLING WITH WHETHER
PLATFORMS, LIKE FACEBOOK AND TWITTER, NOW CALLED X, HAVE THE RIGHT TO DECIDE WHAT USERS CAN SAY ON THEIR SITES.
THE DISPUTE CENTERS ON A PAIR OF LAWS PASSED IN THE RED STATES OF FLORIDA AND TEXAS OVER THE QUESTION OF FIRST AMENDMENT
RIGHTS ON THE INTERNET. THE SUPREME COURT IS CONSIDERING WHETHER THE PLATFORMS ARE LIKE NEWSPAPERS, WHICH HAVE FREE
SPEECH RIGHTS TO MAKE THEIR OWN EDITORIAL DECISIONS, OR IF THEY'RE MORE LIKE TELEPHONE COMPANIES THAT MERELY TRANSMIT
EVERYONE'S SPEECH. IF THE LAWS ARE UPHELD, THE PLATFORMS COULD BE FORCED TO CARRY HATE SPEECH AND FALSE
MEDICAL INFORMATION, THE VERY CONTENT MOST BIG TECH COMPANIES HAVE SPENT YEARS TRYING TO REMOVE THROUGH TEAMS OF CONTENT
MODERATORS. BUT IN THE PROCESS, CONSERVATIVES CLAIM THAT THE COMPANIES HAVE ENGAGED IN A
CONSPIRACY TO SUPPRESS THEIR SPEECH. AS IN THIS CASE, A TWEET IN 2022 FROM CONGRESSWOMAN MARJORIE
TAYLOR GREENE FALSELY CLAIMING THAT THERE WERE EXTREMELY HIGH AMOUNTS OF COVID VACCINE DEATHS. >> I HAVE NOT MISLED ANYONE.
I HAVE NOT PUT OUT MISINFORMATION. >> Reporter: TWITTER EVENTUALLY BANNED GREENE'S PERSONAL ACCOUNT
FOR MULTIPLE VIOLATIONS OF ITS COVID POLICY. FACEBOOK AND YOUTUBE ALSO REMOVED OR LABELLED POSTS THEY
DEEMED MISINFORMATION. >> BIG TECH'S OUT TO GET CONSERVATIVES. THAT'S NOT A SUSPICION.
THAT'S NOT A HUNCH. THAT'S A FACT. >> Reporter: CONFRONTED WITH CRITICISMS FROM CONSERVATIVES,
LIKE CONGRESSMAN JIM JORDAN, THAT THE SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES WERE CENSORING THEIR VIEWS AND BECAUSE OF COST CUTTING,
PLATFORMS BEGAN DOWN SIZING THEIR FACT-CHECKING TEAMS. SO, TODAY SOCIAL MEDIA IS TEEMING WITH MISINFORMATION,
LIKE THESE POSTS SUGGESTING TANKS ARE MOVING ACROSS THE TEXAS-MEXICO BORDER. BUT IT'S ACTUALLY FOOTAGE FROM
CHILE. THESE ARE A.I.-GENERATED IMAGES OF -- WELL, SEE FOR YOURSELF. WITH SOCIAL MEDIA MODERATION
TEAMS SHRINKING, A NEW TARGET IS MISINFORMATION, ACADEMIC RESEARCHERS, WHO BEGAN WORKING CLOSELY WITH THE PLATFORMS AFTER
EVIDENCE OF RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE ONLINE IN THE 2016 ELECTION. ARE RESEARCHERS BEING CHILLED? >> ABSOLUTELY.
>> Reporter: KATE STARBIRD IS A PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON, A PROFFORMER PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL PLAYER,
AND THE LEADER OF A MISINFORMATION GROUP CREATED AHEAD OF THE 2020 ELECTION. >> WHERP LOOKING AT
MISINFORMATION ABOUT ELECTION PROCESSES PRORKS SEED PROCESSES, PROCEDURES, AND ELECTION RESULTS.
AND IF WE SAW SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WE WOULD PASS IT ALONG TO THE PLATFORMS IF WE THOUGHT IT VIOLATED ONE OF THEIR POLICIES.
>> Reporter: HERE'S AN EXAMPLE, A NOVEMBER 2020 TWEET SAYING THAT ELECTION SOFTWARE IN MICHIGAN SWITCHED 6,000 VOTES
FROM TRUMP TO BIDEN. THE RESEARCHERS ALERTED TWITTER, THAT THEN DECIDED TO LABEL IT WITH A WARNING.
>> I UNDERSTAND THAT SOME OF THE RESEARCHERS, INCLUDING YOU, HAVE HAD SOME THREATS AGAINST THEM, DEATH THREATS.
>> I HAVE RECEIVED ONE. SOMETIMES THERE ARE THREATS WITH SOMETHING BEHIND THEM, AND SOMETIMES THEY'RE JUST THERE TO
MAKE YOU NERVOUS AND UNCOMFORTABLE. AND IT'S HARD TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.
>> THIS CAMPAIGN AGAINST YOU IS MEANT TO DISCREDIT YOU. SO, WE WON'T BELIEVE YOU. >> ABSOLUTELY.
IT'S INTERESTING THAT THE PEOPLE THAT PUSHED VOTER FRAUD LIES ARE SOME OF THE SAME PEOPLE THAT ARE TRYING TO DISCREDIT RESEARCHERS
THAT ARE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM. >> DID YOUR RESEARCH FIND THAT THERE WAS MORE MISINFORMATION
SPREAD BY CONSERVATIVES? ZB >> ABSOLUTELY. I THINK NOT JUST OUR RESEARCH,
RESEARCH ACROSS THE BOARD LOOKING AT THE 2020 ELECTION, FOUND THAT THERE WAS MORE MISINFORMATION SPREAD BY PEOPLE
THAT WERE SUPPORTERS OF DONALD TRUMP OR CONSERVATIVES. AND THE EVENTS OF JANUARY 6 KIND OF UNDERSCORE THIS.
>> [ CROWD CHANTING ] USA. >> THE FOLKS CLIMBING UP THE CAPITAL BUILDING WERE SUPPORTERS OF DONALD TRUMP.
AND THEY WERE MISINFORMED BY THESE FALSE CLAIMS AND THAT MOTIVATED THOSE ACTIONS.
>> THIS IS WRONG. WE KNOW IT'S WRONG, AND IT'S ABOUT PROTECTING THE FIRST AMENDMENT.
>> OHIO REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN JIM JORDAN IS CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE. >> SO, HOW BIG A PROBLEM IS MIS-
AND DISINFORMATION ON THE WEB? >> I THINK THERE'S SOME, BUT OUR CONCERN IS THE BIGGER PROBLEM OF THE ATTACK ON FIRST AMENDMENT
LIBERTIES. >> CONGRESSMAN JORDAN'S JUDICIARY COMMITTEE PRODUCED A REPORT THAT CONCLUDED THERE'S A
CENSORSHIP INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX WHERE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND TECH COMPANIES COLLUDED WITH ACADEMIC RESEARCHERS TO
DISPROPORTIONATELY SILENCE CONSERVATIVES, WHICH KATE STARBIRD VIGOROUSLY DENIES. BUT CONGRESSMAN JORDAN SAYS HER
GROUP UNFAIRLY FLAGGED POSTS, LIKE THIS TWEET FROM NEWT GINGRICH. PENNSYLVANIA DEMOCRATS ARE
METHODICALLY CHANGING THE RULES SO THEY CAN STEAL THE ELECTION. >> WHAT I CARE ABOUT IS THE ABILITY TO SPEAK AND TO SPEAK IN
A POLITICAL FASHION AND NOT HAVE THE GOVERNMENT COME AFTER YOU FOR DOING SO. >> Reporter: HE COMPLAINS THAT
GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS PUT PRESSURE ON SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES DIRECTLY. >> AND A GREAT EXAMPLE, 36 HOURS
INTO THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, THE BIDEN WHITE HOUSE SENDS A EMAIL TO TWITTER AND SAYS, WE THINK YOU SHOULD TAKE DOWN THIS
TWEET ASAP. >> Reporter: JUST A CALL ALONE FROM THE GOVERNMENT, HE SAYS, CAN BE UNNERVING.
>> YOU CAN'T HAVE THE GOVERNMENT SAY, HEY, WE WANT YOU TO DO X, GOVERNMENT, WHO HAS THE ABILITY TO REGULATE THESE PRIVATE
COMPANIES. >> Reporter: HE SAYS THAT WHITE HOUSE EMAIL TO TWITTER INVOLVED A TWEET FROM --
>> ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., AND EVERYTHING IN THE TWEET WAS TRUE. >> Reporter: THAT TWEET IMPLIED
FALSELY THAT BASEBALL LEGEND HANK AARON'S DEATH WAS CAUSED BY THE COVID VACCINE. >> DID THEY TAKE --
>> TURNED OUT THEY DID IT. THANK GOODNESS. >> Reporter: AND THAT POST IS STILL UP.
KATE STARBIRD SAYS THE SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS ALSO OFTEN IGNORED THE RESEARCHERS' SUGGESTIONS.
>> THE STATISTICS I'VE SEEN ARE JUST FOR THE TWITTER PLATFORM, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THEY RESPONDED TO ABOUT 30% OF
THE THINGS THAT WE SENT THEM. AND I THINK ON THE MAJORITY OF THOSE, THEY PUT LABELS. >> BUT JUST A THIRD.
>> BUT JUST A THIRD, YEAH. >> DO YOU SUSPECT THAT FACEBOOK WAS THE SAME? >> OH, YEAH.
>> THESE PLATFORMS HAVE THEIR OWN FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS. >> KATIE HARBATH SPENT A DECADE AT FACEBOOK, WHERE SHE HELPED
DEVELOP ITS POLICIES AROUND ELECTION MISINFORMATION. WHEN SHE WAS THERE, SHE SAYS IT WAS NOT UNUSUAL FOR THE
GOVERNMENT TO ASK FACEBOOK TO REMOVE CONTENT, WHICH IS PROPER AS LONG AS THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT COERCING.
>> CONSERVATIVES ARE ALLEGING THAT THE PLATFORMS WERE TAKING DOWN CONTENT AT THE BEHEST OF THE GOVERNMENT, WHICH IS NOT
TRUE. THE PLATFORMS MADE THEIR OWN DECISIONS, AND MANY TIMES WE WERE PUSHING BACK ON THE
GOVERNMENT. >> CAN WE TALK ABOUT A SPECIFIC CASE? IT'S OF NANCY PELOSI.
IT'S A DOCTORED TAPE WHERE SHE'S -- SHE LOOKS DRUNK. >> WE WANT TO GIVE THIS PRESIDENT THE OPPORTUNITY TO
SOMETHING HISTORIC. >> Reporter: THIS WAS THE VIDEO OF THEN-HOUSE SPEAKER PELOSI POSTED TO FACEBOOK IN 2019
SLOWED DOWN TO MAKE IT SEEM THAT SHE WAS SLURRING HER WORDS. >> DID IT COME DOWN? >> IT DID NOT.
>> WHY? >> BECAUSE IT DIDN'T VIOLATE THE POLICIES THAT THEY HAD. >> SO, DID SHE PUT PRESSURE ON
THE COMPANY TO TAKE IT DOWN? >> SHE WAS DEFINITELY NOT PLEASED. SHE DEFINITELY -- YES.
AND IT REALLY DAMAGED THE RELATIONSHIP THAT THE COMPANY HAD WITH HER. >> Reporter: THE CONSERVATIVES'
CAMPAIGN FACED A SETBACK AT THE SUPREME COURT ON MONDAY, WHEN A MAJORITY OF THE JUSTICES SEEMED POISED TO REJECT THEIR EFFORT TO
LIMIT ATTEMPTS BY THE GOVERNMENT TO INFLUENCE SOCIAL MEDIA. THE COURT IS DECIDING IN SEPARATE CASES WHETHER THE
PLATFORMS ARE LIKE NEWS ORGANIZATIONS, WITH THE FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT TO CONTROL WHO AND WHAT INFORMATION APPEARS ON
THEIR SITES. CONGRESSMAN JORDAN ARGUES THAT THE TECH COMPANIES SHOULDN'T REMOVE MOST OF WHAT THEY CALL
MISINFORMATION. >> I THINK YOU LET THE AMERICAN PEOPLE RESPECT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, THEIR COMMON SENSE, TO
FIGURE OUT WHAT'S ACCURATE, WHAT ISN'T. >> WELL, WHAT ABOUT THIS IDEA THAT THE 2020 ELECTION WAS
STOLEN? YOU THINK THAT THESE COMPANIES SHOULD ALLOW PEOPLE TO SAY THAT AND INDIVIDUALS CAN MAKE UP
THEIR OWN MIND -- >> I THINK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE SMART. LOOK, I'VE NOT SAID THAT.
WHAT I'VE SAID IS THERE WERE CONCERNS ABOUT THE 2020 ELECTION. I THINK AMERICANS AGREE WITH
THAT. >> NO, THEY DON'T. >> YOU DON'T THINK THEY THINK THERE WERE CONCERNS WITH THE
2020 LEK. >> MOST PEOPLE DON'T QUESTION THE RESULT. THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING.
THEY DON'T QUESTION WHETHER BIDEN WON OR NOT. RIGHT? RIGHT?
>> WHAT? >> MOST PEOPLE DON'T QUESTION THE OUTCOME. >> RIGHT.
>> X BASICALLY DID WHAT JORDAN PROPOSES. AFTER ELON MUSK TOOK OVER IN 2022, MOST OF ITS FACT CHECKERS
WERE FIRED. NOW THE SITE IS RIFE WITH TRASH TALK AND LIES. LITTLE WOULD YOU KNOW THAT THIS,
SAID TO BE FOOTAGE FROM GAZA, IS REALLY FROM A VIDEO GAME. EVENTUALLY X USERS ADDED A WARNING LABEL.
IN THIS POST, PICTURES OF REAL BABIES KILLED IN ISRAELI STRIKES ARE FALSELY DISMISSED AS DOLLS. >> THE TOOTH PASTE IS OUT OF THE
TUBE AND WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DEAL WITH THE RESULTING MESS. >> Reporter: DARRELL WEST, A
SENIOR FELLOW OF TECHNOLOGY INNOVATION AT THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION SAYS THE CLASH OVER WHAT IS TRUE IS FRAYING OUR
INSTITUTIONS AND THREATENING DEMOCRACIES AROUND THE WORLD. >> HALF OF THE WORLD IS VOTING THIS YEAR, AND THE WORLD COULD
STICK WITH DEMOCRACY OR MOVE TOWARDS AUTHORITARIANISM. THE DANGER IS DISINFORMATION COULD DECIDE THE ELECTIONS IN A
NUMBER OF DIFFERENT COUNTRIES. >> Reporter: IN THE U.S., HE SAYS, THE RIGHT WING HAS BEEN FLOODING THE INTERNET WITH REAMS
OF MISLEADING INFORMATION IN RDER TO CONFUSE THE PUBLIC. AND HE'S ALARMED BY THE CAMPAIGN TO SILENCE THE ACADEMIC
RESEARCHERS WHO HAVE HAD TO SPEND MONEY AND TIME ON DEMANDS FROM JIM JORDAN'S JUDICIARY COMMITTEE.
>> THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO MAKE THE ACCUSATION THAT GOING AFTER THESE RESEARCHERS, MISINFORMATION RESEARCHERS, IS
TANTAMOUNT TO HARASSMENT AND THAT YOUR GOAL REALLY IS TO CHILL THE RESEARCH. >> I FIND IT INTERESTING YOU USE
THE WORD "CHILL" BECAUSE IN EFFECT WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS CHILLING FIRST AMENDMENT FREE SPEECH RIGHTS.
WHEN THEY'RE WORKING IN AN EFFORT TO SENSOR AMERICANS, THAT'S A CHILLING IMPACT ON SPEECH.
>> THEY SAY WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS -- >> US POINTING OUT, US DOING OUR CONSTITUTIONAL DUTY OF OVERSIGHT
OVER THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, AND SOMEHOW WE'RE CENSORING? THAT MAKES NO SENSE. >> WE -- AMERICANS, WE'RE
LOOKING AT THE SAME THING AND SEEING A DIFFERENT TRUTH. >> WE MIGHT SEE DIFFERENT THINGS.
I DON'T THINK YOU CAN SEE DIFFERENT TRUTHS BECAUSE TRUTH IS TRUTH. >> OKAY.
THE RESESARCHERS SAY THEY'RE BEING CHILLED. THAT'S THEIR TRUTH. >> YEAH.
>> YOU'RE SAYING THEY'RE NOT. SO, WHAT'S THE TRUTH? >> THEY CAN DO THEIR RESEARCH. GOD BLESS THEM.
DO ALL THE RESEARCH YOU WANT. DON'T USE -- DON'T SAY, WE THINK THIS PARTICULAR TWEET IS NOT TRUE --
>> WELL, THAT'S THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT TO SAY THAT. >> THEY CAN SAY THAT, BUT THEY CAN'T TAKE IT DOWN.
>> THEY CAN TAKE IT DOWN AND THEY DON'T. THEY JUST SEND THEIR INFORMATION TO THE COMPANIES.
>> BUT WHEN THEY'RE COORDINATING WITH GOVERNMENT, THAT'S A DIFFERENT ANIMAL. >> OF COURSE THEY DENY THEY'RE
COORDINATING. >> WE JUST WENT ROUND AND ROUND. >> I WONDER IF THERE'S A WAY TO MEASURE THE SHIFTING MEANING OF
MISINFORMATION. >> Reporter: STARBIRD SAYS SHE AND HER TEAM FEEL INTIMIDATED BY THE CONSERVATIVES' CAMPAIGN.
SO, WHILE THEY WILL CONTINUE RELEASING THEIR RESEARCH REPORTS ON MISINFORMATION, THEY WILL NO LONGER SEND THEIR FINDINGS TO
THE SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS. >>> HOW PREBUNKING MISINFORMATION WORKS. >> WE WANT TO EMPOWER PEOPLE TO
SEE THROUGH MANIPULATION AND MAKE UP THEIR OWN MIND. >> AT >>> IMMIGRATION, THE BORDER, AND
THE ECONOMY HAVE EMERGED AS KEY ISSUES IN THIS YEAR'S PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND MAY DETERMINE WHO WINS THE WHITE
HOUSE. BUT THE PERSON WHO COULD TIP THE SCALES FOR EITHER CANDIDATE IS ANOTHER PRESIDENT, MEXICO'S
PRESIDENT, ANDRES MANUEL LOPEZ OBRADOR, WIDELY KNOWN BY HIS INITIALS, AMLO. CHARISMATIC AND OFTEN COMBATIC,
AMLO WON A LANDSLIDE VICTORY IN 2018 ON THE PROMISE TO ROOT OUT CORRUPTION, REDUCE POVERTY AND VIOLENT CRIME.
NOW 70 YEARS OLD AND IN THE FINAL STRETCH OF HIS TERM, WE MET THE PRESIDENT FOR A KAND DID CONVERSATION ABOUT IMMIGRATION,
TRADE, THE FENTANYL CRISIS, AND THE CARTELS. AND HE TELLS US WHY HE THINKS WHEN DONALD TRUMP SAYS HE'S
GOING TO SHUT DOWN THE BORDER OR BUILD A WALL, HE'S BLUFFING. >> PRESIDENT TRUMP IS SAYING HE WANTS TO BUILD A WALL AGAIN.
>> Translator: ON THE CAMPAIGN. >> BUT YOU DON'T THINK HE'D ACTUALLY DO IT? >> Translator: NO, NO.
>> BECAUSE HE NEEDS MEXICO. >> Translator: BECAUSE WE UNDERSTOOD EACH OTHER VERY WELL, WE SIGNED AN ECONOMIC, A
COMMERCIAL AGREEMENT, THAT HAS BEEN FAVORABLE FOR BOTH PEOPLES, FOR BOTH NATIONS. HE KNOWS IT, AND PRESIDENT
BIDEN, THE SAME. >> BUT WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT WILL SAY, OH, BUT THE WALL WORKS.
>> Translator: IT DOESN'T WORK. >> AND PRESIDENT LOPEZ OBRADOR SAYS HE TOLD THAT TO THEN-PRESIDENT TRUMP DURING A
PHONE CALL. THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE DISCUSSING THE PANDEMIC. >> Translator: IT WAS AN
AGREEMENT NOT TO SPEAK ABOUT THE WALL BECAUSE WE WERE NOT GOING TO AGREE. >> AND THEN YOU TALKED ABOUT IT.
>> Translator: THAT WAS THE ONLY TIME. AND I TOLD HIM, I'M GOING TO SEND YOU, MR. PRESIDENT, SOME
VIDEOS OF TUNNELS FROM TIJUANA UP TO SAN DIEGO THAT PASS RIGHT UNDER U.S. CUSTOMS. HE STAYED QUIET, AND THEN HE
STARTED LAUGHING AND TOLD ME, I CAN'T WIN WITH YOU. >> Reporter: WE MET PRESIDENT ANDRES MANUEL LOPEZ OBRADOR AT
MEXICO'S NATIONAL PALACE EARLIER THIS MONTH. WITH SIX MONTHS LEFT ON HIS SIX-YEAR TERM, LOPEZ OBRADOR'S
POWER IN MEXICO AND INFLUENCE IN THE UNITED STATES HAS NEVER BEEN GREATER. THE WHITE HOUSE WITNESSED IT
HERE LAST DECEMBER WHEN A RECORD 250,000 MIGRANTS OVERWHELMED THE U.S. SOUTHERN BORDER WITH MEXICO.
PRESIDENT BIDEN CALLED YOU. HE SENT HIS SECRETARY OF STATE. WHAT DID THEY SAY TO YOU, AND WHAT DID THEY ASK FOR FROM YOU?
>> Translator: FOR US TO TRY TO CONTROL THE FLOW OF MIGRATION. >> Reporter: A MONTH LATER, U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PATROL REPORT
THE NUMBER OF MIGRANT CROSSINGS DROPPED BY 50%. >> SO, WHAT DID YOU DO BETWEEN DECEMBER AND JANUARY THAT
CHANGED THAT NUMBER SO DRAMATICALLY? >> Translator: WE WERE MORE CAREFUL ABOUT OUR SOUTHERN
BORDER. WE SPOKE WITH THE PRESIDENTS OF CENTRAL AMERICA WITH THE PRESIDENT OF VENEZUELA, AND WITH
THE PRESIDENT OF CUBA. WE ASKED THEM FOR HELP IN CURBING THE FLOW OF MIGRANTS. HOWEVER, THAT IS A SHORT-TERM
SOLUTION, NOT A LONG-TERM ONE. >> Reporter: MEXICO ALSO INCREASED PATROLS AT THE BORDER, FLYING SOME MIGRANTS TO THE
SOUTHERN PART OF MEXICO AND DEPORTING OTHERS. BUT BY FEBRUARY, THE NUMBER OF MIGRANTS CROSSING INTO THE U.S.
BEGAN TO RISE AGAIN. AND THE BORDER PATROL EXPECTS A SHARP INCREASE IN THAT NUMBER IN SPRING.
>> EVERYBODY THINKS YOU HAVE THE POWER IN THIS MOMENT TO SLOW DOWN MIGRATION. DO YOU PLAN TO?
>> Translator: WE DO AND WANT TO CONTINUE DOING IT. BUT WE DO WANT FOR THE ROOT CAUSES TO BE ATTENDED TO, FOR
THEM TO BE SERIOUSLY LOOKED AT. >> Reporter: WITH THE EAR OF THE WHITE HOUSE, PRESIDENT LOPEZ OBRADOR PROPOSED HIS FIX THAT
THE UNITED STATES COMMIT $20 BILLION A YEAR TO POOR COUNTRIES IN LATIN AMERICA AND THE CARIBBEAN, LIFT SANCTIONS ON
VENEZUELA, AND THE CUBAN EMBARGO, AND LEGALIZE MILLIONS OF LAW-ABIDING MEXICANS LIVING IN THE U.S.
>> IF THEY DON'T DO THE THINGS YOU'VE SAID NEED TO BE DONE, THEN WHAT? >> Translator: THE FLOW OF
MIGRANTS WILL CONTINUE. >> YOUR CRITICS HAVE SAID WHAT YOU'RE DOING, WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR TO HELP SECURE THE BORDER,
IS DIPLOMATIC BLACKMAIL. WHAT DO YOU SAY? >> Translator: I'M SPEAKING FRANKLY.
WE HAVE TO SAY THINGS AS THEY ARE. AND I ALWAYS SAY WHAT I FEEL. I ALWAYS SAY WHAT I THINK.
>> IF THEY DON'T DO THOSE THINGS, WILL YOU CONTINUE TO HELP TO SECURE THE BORDER? >> Translator: YES, BECAUSE OUR
RELATIONSHIP IS VERY IMPORTANT. IT IS FUNDAMENTAL. >> Reporter: FOR MUCH OF THE LAST SIX YEARS, PRESIDENT LOPEZ
OBRADOR HAS HELD A TELEVISED 7:00 A.M. PRESS CONFERENCE FIVE DAYS A WEEK. DURING OUR VISIT, HE WAS
DISSECTING FAKE NEWS. THE BRIEFING LASTED MORE THAN TWO HOURS. >> IS IT A PULPIT, OR IS IT A
PRESS CONFERENCE? >> Translator: IT IS A CIRCULAR DIALOGUE, EVEN THOUGH MY OPPONENTS SAY I'M ON A PULPIT.
>> Reporter: TIME IS THE ONLY LUXURY AMLO SEEMS COMFORTABLE SPENDING. WHEN HE TOOK OFFICE, HE SOLD THE
PRESIDENTIAL JET AND BULLET PROOF CARS IN FAVOR OF HIS VOLKSWAGEN. HE USES HIS DAILY BRIEFINGS TO
RAIL AGAINST THE ELITE AND ENEMIES, REAL AND PERCEIVED. AT TIMES, IT CAN FEEL LIKE A POLITICAL TELEKNOW VELA.
IN A BRIEFING LAST MONTH, THE PRESIDENT STUNNED THE AUDIENCE WHEN HE READ THE CELL PHONE NUMBER OF A "NEW YORK TIMES"
REPORTER, WHO WAS PURSUING WHAT HE VIEWED AS A POLITICAL STORY OF HIM. >> IT LOOKS LIKE YOU WERE
THREATENING THAT REPORTER. >> Reporter: I DIDN'T DO IT WITH THE INTENTION OF HARMING HER. SHE, LIKE YOURSELF, ARE PUBLIC
FIGURES, AND I AM AS WELL. >> BUT YOU KNOW THIS IS A DANGEROUS PLACE FOR REPORTERS AND YOU KNOW THAT THREATS OFTEN
COME IN TEXTS AND PHONES. WHEN YOU PUT HER PHONE NUMBER UP BEHIND YOU, YOU REALIZED WHAT YOU WERE DOING.
>> Reporter: NO >> NO, NO, NO. >> WHAT DID YOU THINK YOU WERE DOING?
>> Translator: IT'S A FORM OF RESPONDING TO A LIBEL. IMAGINE WHAT IT MEANS FOR THIS REPORTER TO WRITE THAT THE
PRESIDENT OF MEXICO HAS CONNECTIONS WITH DRUG TRAFFICKERS AND WITHOUT HAVING ANY PROOF.
THAT'S A VILE SLANDER. >> SO, WHY NOT JUST SAY IT'S NOT TRUE? >> Translator: BECAUSE LIBEL,
WHEN IT DOESN'T STAIN, IT SMEARS. >> Reporter: LOPEZ OBRADOR'S BARE-KNUCKLE BRAWLS WITH THE
PRESS ARE IN SHARP CONTRAST TO THE SOFTER APPROACH HE'S TAKEN WITH THE DRUG CARTELS. HE DISSOLVED THE POLICE AND
CREATED A NATIONAL GUARD TO TAKE OVER SECURITY. HE INVESTED MILLIONS TO INVEST IN JOBS FOR YOUNG PEOPLE TO
ESCAPE THE GRIP OF THE CARTELS. ACCORDING TO THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT, HOMICIDES HAVE DROPPED ALMOST 20% SINCE HE TOOK
OFFICE. THE PRESIDENT CALLS HIS APPROACH, HUGS NOT BULLETS. >> HOW IS THAT WORKING OUT FOR
MEXICO? >> Translator: VERY WELL. >> THERE ARE STILL 30,000 HOMICIDES IN MEXICO, AND VERY
FEW OF THOSE ARE PROSECUTED. SO, THERE'S AN IDEA THERE'S STILL LAWLESSNESS IN MEXICO. IS THAT FAIR?
>> Translator: OF COURSE WE PROSECUTE THEM. THERE'S NO IMPUNITY IN MEXICO. THEY ALL GET PROSECUTED.
>> IT'S A SMALL PERCENT. >> Translator: MORE THAN BEFORE. >> ACCORDING TO A MEXICAN THINK TANK, ABOUT 5% OF THE COUNTRY'S
HOMICIDES ARE PROSECUTED. AND A STUDY LAST YEAR REPORTED CARTELS HAVE EXPANDED THEIR REACH, EMPLOYING AN ESTIMATED
175,000 PEOPLE TO EXTORT BUSINESSES AND TRAFFIC MIGRANTS AND DRUGS INTO THE U.S. >> CAN YOU REACH THE CARTEL AND
SAY, KNOCK IT OFF? >> NO, NO, NO. >> Translator: WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO WITH THE CRIMINALS IS APPLY
THE LAW. BUT I'M NOT GOING TO ESTABLISH CONTACT/COMMUNICATION WITH A CRIMINAL, THE PRESIDENT OF
MEXICO. >> ARE YOU SAYING YOU DON'T HAVE TO REACH OUT TO THEM OR COMMUNICATE WITH THEM?
>> NO, NO, NO. >> Translator: BECAUSE YOU CANNOT NEGOTIATE WITH CRIMINALS. >> THE HEAD OF THE DEA SAYS
CARTELS ARE MASS PRODUCING FENTANYL. THE U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT HAS SAID THAT MOST OF IT IS COMING
UT OF MEXICO. ARE THEY WRONG? >> Translator: YES. OR RATHER, THEY DON'T HAVE ALL
THE INFORMATION BECAUSE FENTANYL IS ALSO PRODUCED IN THE UNITED STATES. >> THE STATE DEPARTMENT SAYS
MOST OF IT'S COMING FROM MEXICO. >> Reporter: FENTANYL IS PRODUCED IN THE UNITED STATES, IN CANADA, AND IN MEXICO.
AND THE CHEMICAL PRECURSORS COME FROM ASIA. DO YOU KNOW WHY WE DON'T HAVE THE DRUG CONSUMPTION THAT YOU
HAVE IN THE UNITED STATES? BECAUSE WE HAVE CUSTOMS, TRADITIONS, AND WE DON'T HAVE THE PROBLEM OF THE
DISINTEGRATION OF THE FAMILY. >> BUT THERE IS DRUG CONSUMPTION IN MEXICO. >> Translator: BUT VERY LITTLE.
>> SO, WHY THE VIOLENCE THEN IN MEXICO? >> Translator: BECAUSE DRUG TRAFFICKING EXISTS BUT NOT THE
CONSUMPTION. >> Reporter: LOPEZ OBRADOR SAYS THREATS BY U.S. LAWMAKERS TO SHUT DOWN THE BORDER TO CURB
DRUG TRAFFICKING IS NO MORE THAN SABRE RATTLING. THAT'S BECAUSE LAST YEAR MEXICO BECAME AMERICA'S TOP TRADING
PARTNER. >> Translator: THEY COULD SAY, WE ARE GOING TO CLOSE THE BORDER, BUT WE MUTUALLY NEED
EACH OTHER. >> WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO THE U.S. IF THEY CLOSE THE BORDER? >> Translator: YOU WOULD NOT BE
ABLE TO BUY INEXPENSIVE CARS IF THE BORDER IS CLOSED. THAT IS, YOU WOULD HAVE TO PAY 10,000, $15,000 MORE FOR A CAR.
THERE ARE FACTORIES IN MEXICO AND THERE ARE FACTORIES IN THE UNITED STATES THAT ARE FUNDAMENTAL FOR ALL THE
CONSUMERS IN THE UNITED STATES AND ALL THE CONSUME RS IN MEXICO. >> Reporter: LAST YEAR, THE
MEXICAN ECONOMY GREW 3% AND UNEMPLOYMENT HIT A RECORD LOW. BUT CRITICS SAY MEXICO'S ECONOMIC GROWTH ISN'T BECAUSE OF
THE PRESIDENT, RATHER IN SPITE OF HIM. LOPEZ OBRADOR DIRECTED BILLIONS TO SIGNATURE NATO PROJECTS, LIKE
AN OIL REFINERY IN HIS HOME STATE, AND A RAILROAD THROUGH THE YUCATAN JUNGLE. >> WHAT ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE?
AREN'T THERE MORE DIRE CONCERNS, LIKE CLEAN WATER, ROADS, RELIABLE ENERGY, WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO ATTRACT BUSINESS TO
MEXICO? >> Translator: WE'RE DOING BOTH, FIXING THE ROADS AND BUILDING THIS TRAIN.
IT WILL LINK ALL THE ANCIENT MAYAN CITIES AND IS GOING TO ALLOW MEXICANS AND TOURISTS TO ENJOY A PARADISE REGION.
THAT IS THE SOUTHEAST OF MEXICO. >> Reporter: LOPEZ OBRADOR HAS SPENT UNAPOLOGETICALLY ON SOCIAL PROGRAMS, DOUBLING THE MINIMUM
WAGE, INCREASING PENSIONS AND SCHOLARSHIPS. HIS APPROVAL RATING HAS REMAINED HIGH, UPWARDS OF 60% FOR MOST OF
HIS PRESIDENCY. >> YOUR CRITICS SAY THAT YOU'RE POPULAR BECAUSE YOU GIVE PEOPLE MONEY.
WHAT DO YOU SAY? >> Translator: I WOULD SAY THEY'RE PARTLY RIGHT. OUR FORMULA IS SIMPLE.
IT IS NOT TO ALLOW CORRUPTION, NOT TO MAKE FOR AN OSTENTATIOUS GOVERNMENT. FOR LUXURIES AND EVERYTHING WE
SAY, WE ALLOCATE TO THE PEOPLE. >> DO YOU THINK THAT YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO GET RID OF THE CORRUPTION IN MEXICO?
>> Translator: YES. >> COMPLETELY? >> Translator: YES, BASICALLY, BECAUSE CORRUPTION IN MEXICO
STARTED FROM THE TOP-DOWN. >> Reporter: THE TRANSPARENCY INTERNATIONAL REPORTS NO IMPROVEMENT IN THE CORRUPTION
PROBLEMS THAT HAVE PLAGUED MEXICO FOR DECADES. HUGE CROWDS GATHERED LAST MONTH, ACCUSING THE PRESIDENT OF TRYING
TO ELIMINATE THE COUNTRY'S DEMOCRATIC CHECKS AND BALANCES. IN JUNE, MEXICO WILL HAVE ONE OF THE LARGEST ELECTIONS IN ITS
HISTORY. IN ADDITION TO THE PRESIDENCY, 20,000 LOCAL POSITIONS ARE UP FOR GRABS.
THE CARTELS HAVE FUNDED AND PREYED ON LOCAL CANDIDATES. LAST MONTH, TWO MAYORAL HOPEFULS WERE KILLED WITHIN HOURS OF EACH
OTHER, RAISING FEARS OF A BLOODY ELECTION. >> Translator: I CAN TRAVEL THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE COUNTRY
WITHOUT A PROBLEM. THERE IS NO REGION THAT I CANNOT GO AND VISIT. >> THE NUMBER OF GOVERNMENT
OFFICIALS AND CANDIDATES MURDERED ROSE FROM 94 IN 2018 TO 355 LAST YEAR. YOU DON'T VIEW THAT AS A THREAT
TO YOU, OBVIOUSLY. BUT DO YOU VIEW IT AS A THREAT TO DEMOCRACY? >> NO.
>> Translator: THERE ARE SOME SPECIFIC INSTANCES. THERE IS NO STATE REPRESSION. >> BUT IF A CANDIDATE'S AFRAID
TO RUN BECAUSE THEY MAY BE ASSASSINATED, ISN'T THAT A THREAT TO DEMOCRACY? >> Translator: GENERALLY THEY
ALL PARTICIPATE. THERE ARE MANY CANDIDATES FROM ALL THE PARTIES. >> Reporter: HIS HAND-PICKED
SUCCESSOR, CLAUDIA SHEINBAUM, HAS A COMMANDING LEAD IN THE POLLS AND COULD BECOME MEXICO'S FIRST FEMALE PRESIDENT.
LOPEZ OBRADOR TOLD US WHEN HE LEAVES OFFICE, HE WILL RETIRE FROM POLITICS AND WRITE BOOKS. BUT WHAT HE DOES NEXT AT THE
BORDER, OR DOESN'T DO, COULD SHAPE THE NEXT CHAPTER OF THE UNITED STATES. >>> SOMETHING AKIN TO THE
CALIFORNIA GOLD RUSH IS HAPPENING IN THE EASTERN PACIFIC, AN INTERNATIONAL MAD DASH, NOT FOR ONE PRECIOUS METAL
BUT FOR VAST QUANTITIES OF MINERALS SCATTERED ACROSS THE OCEAN FLOOR, VITAL FOR EVERYTHING FROM ELECTRIC CARS TO
DEFENSE SYSTEMS. TO AVOID A FREE FOR ALL, 168 COUNTRIES, INCLUDING CHINA, HAVE SIGNED ON TO THE UNITED NATIONS
LAW OF THE SEA, A TREATY THAT DIVVIES UP THE INTERNATIONAL SEABED. CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT IS THE
UNITED STATES, KEPT OUT OF THE RACE BY A GROUP OF REPUBLICAN SENATORS WHO ARE SAY THE TREATY UNDERMINES AMERICAN POWER.
DESPITE EFFORTS BY FIVE PRESIDENTS, RATIFYING THE TREATY HAS HIT A WALL IN THE SENATE YEAR AFTER YEAR.
WITH SEABED MINING SET TO BEGIN NEXT YEAR, CHINA IS IN PLACE TO DOMINATE IT. NOW, A GROUP OF FORMER DIPLOMATS
AND MILITARY LEADERS IS TRYING AGAIN TO BREAK THE LOG JAM IN THE SENATE. >> Reporter: 1,000 MILES FROM
U.S. WATERS BETWEEN MEXICO AND HAWAII LIE THIS IS PATCH OF PACIFIC OCEAN. IT LOOKS TRANQUIL, BUT IT'S A
LOCUST OF FIERCE COMPETITION. TO SEE WHAT'S AT STAKE, YOU HAVE TO PLUNGE TO THE BOTTOM. SEE THOSE POTATO-SIZED ROCKS?
THEY'RE FILLED WITH COBALT, NICKEL, MANGANESE, AND COPPER, SOME OF THE MOST VALUABLE METALS ON EARTH.
>> ALL RIGHT, START COMING UP. >> Reporter: IN 2019, WE WENT ALONG ON A PILOT EXPEDITION, AS A CREW WITH CANADA'S METALS
COMPANY HAULED ITS SUNKEN TREASURE TO THE SURFACE. >> THAT MANY OF THEM DOWN THERE. ZBLF IF THEY FOUND A DEPOSIT
WITH THIS METAL CONCENTRATION ON LAND, IT WOULD BE A BONANZA THAT NOBODY WOULD STOP TALKING ABOUT FOR YEARS.
>> TODAY THE RACE IS ON FOR THE ESTIMATED TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF STRATEGIC MINERALS ON THE OCEAN FLOOR, VITAL FOR NEXT
GENERATION ELECTRONICS. COUNTRIES THAT RATIFIED THE LAW OF THE SEA TREATY NOW ARE TESTING GIANT ROBOTS THAT VACUUM
THE MINERALS FROM THE SEA FLOOR. THEY'RE CARVING UP AND LAYING CLAIM TO PARCELS ON THE SEABED COVERED WITH RICH BALLS OF ORE.
CHINA HAS FIVE SITES, 90,000 SQUARE MILES, THE MOST OF ANY COUNTRY. THE UNITED STATES, NONE, BLOCKED
FROM EVEN PUTTING A TOE IN THE WATER BY ITS REFUSAL TO RATIFY THE TREATY. >> WE ARE NOT ONLY NOT AT THE
TABLE, BUT WE'RE OFF THE FIELD. THE UNITED STATES PROBABLY HAS GOT THE MOST TO GAIN OF ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD IF IT WERE
PARTY TO THE LAW OF THE SEA CONVENTION. AND CONVERSELY, WE ACTUALLY PROBABLY HAVE THE MOST TO LOSE
BY NOT BEING PART OF IT. >> JOHN BELLINGER IS A PARTNER AT THE D.C. LAW FIRM, ARNOLD & POYER.
HE TESTIFIED AS A FORMER LEGAL ADVISER TO GEORGE W. BUSH. HE TOLD US BUSH WAS NO FAN OF U.N. TREATIES, BUT HE SUPPORTED
THIS ONE, NOT ONLY FOR CODIFYING ACCESS TO THE DEEP SEABED, BUT ALSO FOR SAFEGUARDING THE FREE NAVIGATION OF U.S. SHIPS AROUND
THE WORLD. BELLINGER TOLD US SUPPORT WAS SO BROAD IN 2012, HE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A SLAM DUNK.
>> PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH WAS IN FAVOR? >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> U.S. INTELLIGENCE.
>> YES. >> MILITARY. >> YES. >> MAJOR BUSINESS GROUPS, BIG
OIL. >> YES. AND ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS AS WELL.
HARD TO FIND ANY TREATY OR PROBABLY ANY PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT HAS SUCH BROAD SUPPORT.
>> Reporter: YET IT FAILED. THE CONSERVATIVE HERITAGE FOUNDATION CONVINCED 34 REPUBLICAN SENATORS TO TURN
THUMBS DOWN, SAYING IT WOULD SUBJUGATE THE UNITED STATES TO THE U.N. >> MY PROBLEM IS WITH
SOVEREIGNTY. >> Reporter: THE LAW OF THE SEA WAS SUNK. >> IT SURPRISED ME THAT A NUMBER
OF SENATORS WOULD TELL US IN THE GOVERNMENT, WE KNOW BETTER THAN YOU. WE KNOW BETTER THAN OUR U.S.
MILITARY. WE KNOW BETTER THAN U.S. BUSINESS. >> DOES THE AMERICAN POSITION
MAKE ANY SENSE TO YOU? >> IT HONESTLY DOES NOT. THE OPPOSITION WAS NOT ON NATIONAL SECURITY REASONS OR ON
BUSINESS REASONS. IT, TO ME, SEEMED JUST A REFLEXIVE, IDEOLOGICAL OPPOSITION TO JOINING THE
TREATY. >> Reporter: SINCE 2012, WHILE REPEATED ATTEMPTS TO RATIFY THE TREATY HAVE FAILED, CHINA HAS
MADE DEEP SEA MINING A NATIONAL PRIORITY. IT ALREADY HAS A NEAR MONOPOLY OF THE CRITICAL MINERALS ON
LAND. NOW IT'S SET TO LOCK UP THE BOUNTY ON THE SEA FLOOR. AMBASSADOR JOHN NEGROPONTE, A
FORMER DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE IN THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION, TOLD US, CHINA'S AGGRESSIVE ACTIONS SHOULD BE
SETTING OFF ALARMS. >> WHAT'S CHANGED SINCE 2012? >> THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA AND ITS MORE ASSERTIVE
BEHAVIOR ON THE INTERNATIONAL SCENE, PARTICULARLY IN THE SOUTH CHINA SEA. AND THEN WITH RESPECT TO DEEP
SEABED MINING, THEY'RE EATING OUR LUNCH. THEY'VE GOT ACCESS TO FIVE SITES.
RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE ACCESS TO NONE. >> Reporter: JOHN NEGROPONTE IS ONE OF A NUMBER OF SENIOR
REPUBLICANS URGING THE SENATE TO RECONSIDER AND ARE THE IDENTIFY THE TREATY. IF IT DOESN'T, THE U.S. CAN'T
GET A LICENSE FROM THE U.N.-BACKED SEABED AUTHORITY TO MINE THE OCEAN BOTTOM. IT WON'T HAVE A SAY IN DRAFTING
ENVIRONMENTAL RULES FOR MINING THE DEEP. ABSENT THE U.S., CHINA IS THE HEAVY WEIGHT IN THE ROOM.
>> SO, DOES IT SEEM TO YOU THAT WE'RE JUST, SORT OF, GIVING THIS RESOURCE TO THE CHINESE WITHOUT ANY PUSHBACK FROM US?
>> WE ARE CONCEDING. IF WE'RE NOT AT THE TABLE AND WE'RE NOT MEMBERS OF THE SEABED AUTHORITY, WE'RE NOT GOING TO
HAVE A VOICE IN WRITING THE ENVIRONMENTAL GUIDELINES FOR DEEP SEABED MINING. WHO WOULD YOU PREFER TO SEE
WRITING THOSE GUIDELINES? THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA OR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA? >> IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO
A CONSERVATIVE TO SAY, THESE MINERALS THAT ARE IN THE DEEP SEABED ARE SO IMPORTANT TO THE UNITED STATES, WE ARE DONE
WITHOUT THOSE. LET'S PUT AN INTERNATIONAL BUREAUCRACY IN CHARGE OF GIVING US ACCESS TO THEM.
>> Reporter: STEVEN GROVES IS A SENIOR POLICY ANALYST AT THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION. IN 2012, GROVES TESTIFIED THAT
THE U.S. DIDN'T NEED ANYONE'S PERMISSION TO MINE THE SEABED. HIS VIEWS HAVEN'T CHANGED. >> WHAT BUSINESSMAN IN THEIR
RIGHT MIND SAID, I'M GOING TO INVEST TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO A COMPANY THAT I WILL THEN HAVE TO GO AND ASK PER
PERMISSION FROM AN INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION TO ENGAGE IN DEEP SEABED MINING. >> BUT NO GENERAL COUNSEL, NO
BOARD OF A COMPANY, IF FACED WITH A CLEAR RIGHT UNDER A TREATY THAT SAYS, YOU CAN GO AND DO THIS, OR TAKING AN ACTION
THAT'S FLATLY CONTRARY TO THE TREATY, OF COURSE THE COMPANIES ARE GOING TO SAY, I WANT TO TAKE THE CLEARLY LAWFUL ROUTE BEFORE
I INVEST BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. >> Reporter: LAWYER JOHN BELLINGER TOLD US U.S. COMPANIES INTERESTED IN MINING THE SEABED
WANT THE LEGAL GUARANTEES OF THE TREATY. EVEN AS OTHER COUNTRIES MOVE AHEAD, STEVEN GROVES INSISTS
AMERICAN COMPANIES ARE STAYING AWAY, NOT BECAUSE THE U.S. HASN'T RATIFIED A TREATY, BUT BECAUSE DEEP SEA MINING ISN'T
VIABLE. >> IF CHINA WANTS TO GO AND THINK THAT IT'S ECONOMICALLY FEASIBLE TO DRAG THOSE NODULES
UP TO THE SURFACE AND PROCESS THEM, LET THEM DO IT. THE UNITED STATES HAS DECIDED TO STAY OUT OF THE GAME.
THE ONE U.S. COMPANY THAT HAD RIGHTS TO THE DEEP SEABED GOT OUT OF THE GAME. THAT'S LOCKHEED MARTIN.
>> U.S. COMPANIES SAY THERE'S UNCERTAINTY. >> WHAT U.S. COMPANIES? >> LOCKHEED.
>> THEIR INVESTORS, THEIR COUNSEL ALL SAY, IF WE DON'T HAVE THIS TREATY, WE'RE GETTING OUT OF THIS.
>> THEY'RE ALREADY OUT OF THE IT. THEY QUIT. >> BECAUSE WE ARE NOT SUPPORTING
THEM IN ANY WAY. >> THAT'S A BUSINESS DECISION THEY MADE. >> Reporter: LOCKHEED MARTIN HAS
NOT QUIT. THE DEFENSE GIANT HAD RIGHTS TO FOUR PACIFIC SEABED SITES. IT SOLD TWO AND IS HOLDING ONTO
TWO IN CASE THE TREATY PASSES. BUT LOCKHEED TOLD US, IF THE U.S. DOESN'T RATIFY THE TREATY, IT CAN'T DIVE IN.
AMBASSADOR JOHN NEGROPONTE TOLD US THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION IS STANDING IN THE WAY. >> WHAT HERITAGE IS SAYING IS,
WE DON'T EVEN WANT TO GIVE THEM A CHANCE. WE KNOW THE ANSWER ALREADY. AND I -- YOU KNOW, I THINK
THAT'S, SORT OF, HYPOTHETICAL THINKING. THE PRAGMATIC APPROACH WOULD BE TO SAY, OKAY, LET US HAVE ACCESS
AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. >> WE COULD END UP BEING EVEN MORE DEPENDENT THAN WE ARE TODAY ON CHINA FOR ACCESS TO THESE
MINERALS. >> IF THEY END UP BEING THE LARGEST PRODUCER AND WE'RE NOT PRODUCING AT ALL, THAT MIGHT
PLACE US IN A DIFFICULT ECONOMIC POSITION. >> BUT NATIONAL SECURITY FEARS OF CHINA'S GROWING PROWESS IN
THE DEEP ARE ABOUT MORE THAN MINING. LAST WEEK, A ALREADY SIGNED BY 346 FORMER POLITICAL, NATIONAL
SECURITY, AND MILITARY LEADERS, WARNED THAT CHINA WAS TAKING ADVANTAGE OF AMERICA'S ABSENCE FROM THE TREATY TO PURSUE
OVERALL NAVAL SUPREMACY. >> OVER THE LAST DECADE -- AND I'VE DONE THE MATH -- CHINA HAS BUILT 20% MORE WARSHIPS
BY TONNAGE THAN THE U.S. NAVY HAS. IT IS A TRULY MASSIVE EXPANSION IN NAVAL POWER.
>> THOMAS SHUGART IS A FORMER U.S. NAVY SUBMARINE WARFARE OFFICER AND A SENIOR FELLOW AT THE CENTER FOR A NEW AMERICAN
SECURITY. HE TOLD US, CHINA IS FLEXING ITS MARITIME MUSCLE BY CLAIMING THE SOUTH CHINA SEA AS ITS PRIVATE
OCEAN. IT HAS CHALLENGED THE TREATY'S NAVIGATION LAWS THAT ENSURE SAFE PASSAGE, BY HARASSING PASSING
SHIPS, INCLUDING THE U.S. NAVY. IT HAS FIRED WATER CANNONS AT ITS NEIGHBORS, CAUSED COLLISIONS, EVEN FLASHED A
MILITARY GRADE LASER AT SHIPS. STEVEN GROVES AT THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION SAYS, THAT'S WHY THE TREATY IS MEANINGLESS.
>> IT'S CHINA WHO IS A PARTY TO THE TREATY, WHO DOESN'T OBEY THE RULES OF THE ROAD. THEY'RE THE ONES GETTING INTO
NEAR COLLISIONS WITH U.S. VESSELS IN THE SOUTH I CHINA SE. THE UNITED STATES RESPECTS AND ADHERES TO INTERNATIONAL LAW.
IT IS THE CHINESE WHO ARE THE -- HERE. AND THE IDEA THAT THE U.S. JOINING THE TREATY WOULD SOMEHOW
CHANGE THAT CHINESE BEHAVIOR, HAS NO BASIS IN REALITY. >> EVERY TIME THE U.S. POINTS AT THEM AND SAYS, YOU'RE VIOLATING
THE LAW, THEY QUICKLY TURN BACK AND SAY, YOU'RE NOT A SIGNATORY. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT?
>> IN AN EFFORT TO WIN HEARTS AND MINDS ALL OVER THE WORLD AGAINST CLEARLY OUR GREATEST STRATEGIC COMPETITOR.
>> FORMER SUBMARINE CAPTAIN THOMAS SHUGART TOLD US, BEING OUTSIDE THE TREATY UNDERCUTS AMERICAN CREDIBILITY, WHILE
CHINA IS LASER FOCUSED ON BUILDING ITS MARITIME POWER. HE TOLD US CHINA'S DEEP SEA MINERS HAVE A SECOND MISSION,
COLLECTING NFGTS FOR THE CHINESE MILITARY. >> THE TECHNOLOGY THAT THESE COMPANIES USE TO MINE THE
SEABED, DO THEY ALSO HAVE A MILITARY APPLICATION? >> ABSOLUTELY. IF YOU'RE GOING TO FIND
SUBMARINES IN THE OCEAN, YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE BOTTOM LOOKS LIKE. YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE
TEMPERATURE IS. YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE SI LYNNTY IS. IF CHINA IS USING VESSELS TO DO
THOSE SURVEYS, THAT COULD IMPROVE THEIR ABILITY TO FIND U.S. AND ALLIED SUBMARINES OVER TIME.
>> Reporter: BACK IN D.C., AMBASSADOR NEGROPONTE'S GROUP IS LOBBYING THE REPUBLICAN HOLDOUTS.
WE DECIDED TO CALL THE SENATORS TO INVTORPEDOED THE TREATY IN 2. WITH THE U.S. SENATE LOCKED IN STALEMATE, CHINA IS FORGING
>>> THE LAST MINUTE OF "60 MINUTES." >>> NOW, AN UPDATE ON A TSTORY FROM EARLIER THIS MONTH CALLED
OPERATION LONE STAR. THE NEW TEXAS LAW BYPASSES THE FEDERAL IMMIGRATION SYSTEM BY GIVING STATE AND LOCAL LAW
ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES AUTHORITY TO ARREST, DETAIN, AND DEPORT MIGRANTS WHO ENTER THE STATE ILLEGALLY.
THE U.S. CONSTITUTION GIVES THE STATES THE RIGHT TO REPEL WHAT HE CALLS AN INVASION. >> DO YOU REALLY, TRULY BELIEVE
THAT "INVASION" IS THE RIGHT WORD TO BE USING HERE. >> INVASION IS THE WORD THAT'S USED IN THE UNITED STATES
CONSTITUTION. INVASION OR IMMINENT DANGER. I USE THEM BOTH. >> THIS PAST WEEK, FEDERAL
COURTS CONSIDERED WHETHER THE LAW SHOULD BE PUT ON HOLD WHILE ITS CONSTITUTIONALITY IS DECIDED.
THE SUPREME COURT REMOVED THAT STAY ONLY TO HAVE IT RENEWED BY FIFTH CIRCUIT JUDGES WHILE THEY CONSIDER THE ARGUMENTS.
THE TEXAS LAW'S FATE, LIKE THE BORDER CRISIS, REMAINS