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[CLOCK TICKING]

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Tonight on 60 Minutes
Presents, Take Me Away.

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Tonight on 60 Minutes
Presents, Take Me Away.

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The saying here goes, you'll
know the Newfoundlanders

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in heaven.

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They'll be the ones
who want to go home.

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They'll be the ones
who want to go home.

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And the adage comes to
life on Fogo Island,

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a 90-square-mile patchwork of 10
minuscule fishing villages where

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a 90-square-mile patchwork of 10
minuscule fishing villages where

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clapboard houses the color of
jelly beans cling to rock 400

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clapboard houses the color of
jelly beans cling to rock 400

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million years old.

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Among its quirks, Newfoundland
has its own time zone,

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half an hour ahead
of the mainland.

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half an hour ahead
of the mainland.

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But wander through
Fogo Island's villages,

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and you might as well set your
watch back to the 18th century.

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and you might as well set your
watch back to the 18th century.

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[CLOCK TICKING]

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That's the temple of
Castor and Pollux.

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That's the temple of
Castor and Pollux.

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Exactly.

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Exactly.

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The Roman Empire
centered around conquest

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and the outsized
personalities of its emperors.

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and the outsized
personalities of its emperors.

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Research and
archaeology continue

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to search for reliable
evidence from that time,

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to search for reliable
evidence from that time,

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and tonight, we'll introduce
you to some new discoveries

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about one of the
most-written-about, if not

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about one of the
most-written-about, if not

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misunderstood, emperors
of all time, Caligula.

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I can't believe that we
are sitting on the steps

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I can't believe that we
are sitting on the steps

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that Caligula may
have walked on.

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It's amazing.

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[CLOCK TICKING]

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[CLOCK TICKING]

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Just come and sit at a sunset
by the lake in the center

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Just come and sit at a sunset
by the lake in the center

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of this national park.

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Time stops.

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And you get a hundred colors
of yellow and hundreds

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And you get a hundred colors
of yellow and hundreds

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colors of orange, and
then the dusk sets in.

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Oh, there's an
elephant right there.

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Is there?

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Is there?

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Well, there certainly is.

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I just have to stop and
say hello to the elephant.

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[CLOCK TICKING]

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[CLOCK TICKING]

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Good evening.

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I'm Jon Wertheim.

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Welcome to 60 Minutes Presents.

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On a dismal, raw and rainy day,
who hasn't thought, even begged,

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On a dismal, raw and rainy day,
who hasn't thought, even begged,

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take me away?

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Tonight, we'll do just that.

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We'll transport you
to ancient Rome,

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We'll transport you
to ancient Rome,

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where, through the
eyes of archaeologists,

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Anderson Cooper visits the
unearthed pleasure gardens

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Anderson Cooper visits the
unearthed pleasure gardens

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of the emperor Caligula.

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Then it's off to Africa,
where Scott Pelley

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checks into a very
different pleasure garden.

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checks into a very
different pleasure garden.

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Mozambique's Gorongosa National
Park, transformed from wasteland

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to wildlife paradise
through the efforts

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to wildlife paradise
through the efforts

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of an American entrepreneur.

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But we begin tonight
at the other end

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of the world, an island off
an island in the Atlantic.

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of the world, an island off
an island in the Atlantic.

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A remote jewel of land off the
coast of Canada, Fogo Island

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A remote jewel of land off the
coast of Canada, Fogo Island

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floats in the northeast corner
of the northeast province

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of Newfoundland and Labrador,
the outstretched right

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of Newfoundland and Labrador,
the outstretched right

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fingertip of this continent.

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The place might be
drop-dead gorgeous,

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but it wasn't immune
to the fate befalling

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but it wasn't immune
to the fate befalling

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so many small and isolated
communities in North America.

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Its one and only industry
went into steep decline,

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Its one and only industry
went into steep decline,

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and so, in turn,
did its population.

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Then, in the early 2000s,
a local returned home,

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Then, in the early 2000s,
a local returned home,

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fresh off making a fortune
in the tech sector.

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Her pockets were deep, so was
her desire to lift up the place

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Her pockets were deep, so was
her desire to lift up the place

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and bring people back.

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So she unleashed a sort
of economic experiment.

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So she unleashed a sort
of economic experiment.

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As we first told you in 2021, we
took two planes, a long drive,

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and a ferry to reach Fogo
Island and check on the results.

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and a ferry to reach Fogo
Island and check on the results.

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The saying, here goes, you'll
know the Newfoundlanders

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in heaven.

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They'll be the ones
who want to go home.

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They'll be the ones
who want to go home.

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And the adage comes to
life on Fogo Island,

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a 90-square mile patchwork of 10
minuscule fishing villages where

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a 90-square mile patchwork of 10
minuscule fishing villages where

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clapboard houses the color of
jelly beans cling to rock 400

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clapboard houses the color of
jelly beans cling to rock 400

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million years old.

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Among its quirks, Newfoundland
has its own time zone,

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Among its quirks, Newfoundland
has its own time zone,

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half an hour ahead
of the mainland.

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But wander through
Fogo Island's villages,

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But wander through
Fogo Island's villages,

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and you might as well set your
watch back to the 18th century.

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Back then, all you
needed to get by here

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Back then, all you
needed to get by here

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was a pig, a potato
patch, and something

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called a punt, a small
wooden fishing boat

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called a punt, a small
wooden fishing boat

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used in pursuit of North
Atlantic cod, the species that

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used in pursuit of North
Atlantic cod, the species that

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once kept this place afloat.

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Seemingly, every structure on
the island was built in service

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Seemingly, every structure on
the island was built in service

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of catching and preserving fish,
with one gleaming exception--

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of catching and preserving fish,
with one gleaming exception--

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a $40 million luxury inn, part
edge-of-the-earth destination,

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part economic engine on stilts,
the inn is the brainchild

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part economic engine on stilts,
the inn is the brainchild

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of eighth-generation
Fogo islander Zita Cobb.

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of eighth-generation
Fogo islander Zita Cobb.

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And locals gave her a funny look
when she first floated the idea.

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What kind of reaction
did that get?

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Why would anyone come here?

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Why would anyone come here?

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We love this place,
but it wasn't obvious

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when you know there are fancy
places in the world that people

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go.

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Our assumption is everybody
wants to go where it's warm.

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Someone suggested to
us it look like a ship.

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The architecture of
the inn was obviously

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a topic of much conversation.

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I think about it as a metaphor.

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I think about it as a metaphor.

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It's about people from
here and people from away.

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It's about the
future and the past.

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The past looms large
on Fogo Island.

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The past looms large
on Fogo Island.

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To fully appreciate the
inn, even as a metaphor,

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you have to understand
Fogo's history.

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you have to understand
Fogo's history.

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It's just something.

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Zita Cobb took us through
dozens of tiny islands

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Zita Cobb took us through
dozens of tiny islands

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that dot Fogo's waters to a
place called Little Fogo Island.

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And for those keeping
track, that's an island off

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And for those keeping
track, that's an island off

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an island off an island.

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This is a slip.

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Her ancestors landed here from
Ireland and South England.

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Her ancestors landed here from
Ireland and South England.

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They came for one reason.

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Fish, fish and fish.

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When you say fish,
is it just a given?

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When you say fish,
is it just a given?

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It's a given.

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So, yes, when we say
fish, we mean cod.

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So, yes, when we say
fish, we mean cod.

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Is it possible to exaggerate the
importance of cod to this place?

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No, it's not possible,
because everything

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No, it's not possible,
because everything

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that you need to know
about someone from here,

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you can figure it out by just
studying that lowly fish.

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you can figure it out by just
studying that lowly fish.

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It's actually
quite a noble fish.

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A noble fish?

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It asks very little
and gives so much.

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It asks very little
and gives so much.

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They exist on almost anything.

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I think a cod could eat a
rubber boot if it had to.

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I think a cod could eat a
rubber boot if it had to.

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Not unlike the noble
fish, Zita Cobb's family

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survived without fuss.

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In cod they trusted.

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In cod they trusted.

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Families worked
side by side here,

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trading their fish for goods.

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No bank accounts, no cash.

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No bank accounts, no cash.

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Cobb's parents could
neither read nor write.

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She and her six brothers grew up
in a house with no electricity.

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She and her six brothers grew up
in a house with no electricity.

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She says it was a happy
childhood, until it wasn't.

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She says it was a happy
childhood, until it wasn't.

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What happened?

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The worst of the 20th century
came down on top of us very

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quickly in the form of
the industrialization

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quickly in the form of
the industrialization

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of the fisheries.

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So these enormous factory
ships showed up here,

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all along the coast
of Newfoundland,

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all along the coast
of Newfoundland,

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and fished day and night until
just about every last fish

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was gone.

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was gone.

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With one small punt
launched from this one dock,

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Cobb's father couldn't compete
with commercial vessels

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Cobb's father couldn't compete
with commercial vessels

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that had come to
the North Atlantic

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from all over the world.

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How bad did things get for him?

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He would go out and
come back with nothing.

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He would go out and
come back with nothing.

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But one day in particular,
he came back with one fish.

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And he brought the
fish into the house,

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And he brought the
fish into the house,

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and he slapped it down onto
the kitchen floor and said,

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well, it's done.

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well, it's done.

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And it was the next
day he burned his boat.

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He burned his boat?

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He burned his boat.

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He burned his boat.

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It's almost like a sacrifice.

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It was.

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He did it as a statement.

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He did it as an expression
of pain and anger.

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He did it as an expression
of pain and anger.

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Lambert Cobb made this
sacrifice once he realized

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Lambert Cobb made this
sacrifice once he realized

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that those big boats
were, in his words,

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turning fish into money.

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He said to me, as a 10-year-old,
you have got to figure out how

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He said to me, as a 10-year-old,
you have got to figure out how

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this money thing works.

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Because if you don't, it's
going to eat everything we love.

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Because if you don't, it's
going to eat everything we love.

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He wasn't wrong.

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As fish stocks dwindled, so
did the island's population,

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As fish stocks dwindled, so
did the island's population,

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from 5,000 to 2,500.

245
00:07:44,897 --> 00:07:48,000
The Cobbs left grudgingly for
the mainland in the 1970s.

246
00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:49,001
The Cobbs left grudgingly for
the mainland in the 1970s.

247
00:07:49,068 --> 00:07:51,771
Zita Cobb's father died
shortly thereafter,

248
00:07:51,838 --> 00:07:53,873
but she heeded his advice.

249
00:07:53,940 --> 00:07:54,000
She got a business degree,
worked in fiber optics,

250
00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,709
She got a business degree,
worked in fiber optics,

251
00:07:56,776 --> 00:07:59,412
landed in Silicon
Valley, and, before long,

252
00:07:59,478 --> 00:08:00,000
was the third highest paid
female executive in America.

253
00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,849
was the third highest paid
female executive in America.

254
00:08:02,915 --> 00:08:06,000
In her early 40s, she cashed
out tens of millions in stock

255
00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:06,552
In her early 40s, she cashed
out tens of millions in stock

256
00:08:06,619 --> 00:08:09,655
options, dropped out of the
winner-take-all economy,

257
00:08:09,722 --> 00:08:11,724
and took her
business savvy home,

258
00:08:11,791 --> 00:08:12,000
determined to
revitalize Fogo Island.

259
00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,527
determined to
revitalize Fogo Island.

260
00:08:14,594 --> 00:08:17,697
Instead of writing a check,
she posed a question.

261
00:08:17,763 --> 00:08:18,000
What do we have,
and what do we know?

262
00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:19,832
What do we have,
and what do we know?

263
00:08:19,899 --> 00:08:22,034
And how can we put that
forward in a way that's

264
00:08:22,101 --> 00:08:24,000
dignified for Fogo Islanders
and creates economy

265
00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,273
dignified for Fogo Islanders
and creates economy

266
00:08:27,340 --> 00:08:29,008
and connects us to the world?

267
00:08:29,075 --> 00:08:30,000
[MUSIC PLAYING]

268
00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,045
[MUSIC PLAYING]

269
00:08:33,546 --> 00:08:36,000
Spend one night at what the
locals call a shed party,

270
00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:36,549
Spend one night at what the
locals call a shed party,

271
00:08:36,616 --> 00:08:39,986
and the answer emerges.

272
00:08:40,052 --> 00:08:42,000
When you think about the
people of this place,

273
00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:42,054
When you think about the
people of this place,

274
00:08:42,121 --> 00:08:43,990
if there's one thing
we're really good at,

275
00:08:44,056 --> 00:08:45,458
it's hospitality.

276
00:08:45,524 --> 00:08:47,827
What does hospitality mean here?

277
00:08:47,894 --> 00:08:48,000
Hospitality in its purest form
is the love of a stranger.

278
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,397
Hospitality in its purest form
is the love of a stranger.

279
00:08:51,464 --> 00:08:52,899
We didn't get a
lot of strangers.

280
00:08:52,965 --> 00:08:54,000
And when they arrived,
as my mother used to say,

281
00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:55,601
And when they arrived,
as my mother used to say,

282
00:08:55,668 --> 00:08:57,937
it's always better to see a
light coming into the harbor

283
00:08:58,004 --> 00:08:59,438
than a light going out.

284
00:08:59,505 --> 00:09:00,000
So in 2013, Cobb built the
biggest beacon in the harbor.

285
00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,409
So in 2013, Cobb built the
biggest beacon in the harbor.

286
00:09:03,476 --> 00:09:06,000
She made the Fogo Island
Inn the centerpiece

287
00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:06,045
She made the Fogo Island
Inn the centerpiece

288
00:09:06,112 --> 00:09:08,581
of a charitable trust,
called Shorefast,

289
00:09:08,648 --> 00:09:11,083
with profits reinvested
in the island.

290
00:09:11,150 --> 00:09:12,000
At $2,000 a night, the
inn does turn a profit.

291
00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,287
At $2,000 a night, the
inn does turn a profit.

292
00:09:14,353 --> 00:09:16,689
But there were other
considerations.

293
00:09:16,756 --> 00:09:18,000
We're going to put a 29-room inn
on an island that's never had

294
00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,393
We're going to put a 29-room inn
on an island that's never had

295
00:09:20,459 --> 00:09:21,427
an inn.

296
00:09:21,494 --> 00:09:23,029
What are the
consequences of that?

297
00:09:23,095 --> 00:09:24,000
Well, more people will come.

298
00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:24,263
Well, more people will come.

299
00:09:24,330 --> 00:09:25,598
Well, how many more people?

300
00:09:25,665 --> 00:09:28,868
As one woman said, well,
we're only 2,500 people.

301
00:09:28,935 --> 00:09:30,000
We can only love so
many people at a time.

302
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:31,437
We can only love so
many people at a time.

303
00:09:31,504 --> 00:09:34,974
Shorefast and the inn employ
more than 300 islanders,

304
00:09:35,041 --> 00:09:36,000
but the real payoff
is the ripple effect.

305
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,644
but the real payoff
is the ripple effect.

306
00:09:38,711 --> 00:09:42,000
For starters, all the furniture
at the inn is locally made.

307
00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:42,348
For starters, all the furniture
at the inn is locally made.

308
00:09:42,415 --> 00:09:44,784
Same for the pillows and quilts.

309
00:09:44,850 --> 00:09:46,986
It so happens the
women of Fogo Island

310
00:09:47,053 --> 00:09:48,000
have been making them for
their own homes for 400 years.

311
00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,957
have been making them for
their own homes for 400 years.

312
00:09:51,023 --> 00:09:51,791
We're getting there.

313
00:09:51,857 --> 00:09:52,892
We got half done.

314
00:09:52,959 --> 00:09:54,000
Word is out now.

315
00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:54,226
Word is out now.

316
00:09:54,293 --> 00:09:57,229
This quilt is destined for
a customer in Baltimore.

317
00:09:57,296 --> 00:09:58,831
We joined the quilting bee--

318
00:09:58,898 --> 00:10:00,000
Watch him, Millicent.

319
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:00,066
Watch him, Millicent.

320
00:10:00,132 --> 00:10:02,001
--but didn't last long.

321
00:10:02,068 --> 00:10:04,971
It was all very nice
except for this one square.

322
00:10:05,037 --> 00:10:06,000
This is our lettuce room.

323
00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:06,405
This is our lettuce room.

324
00:10:06,472 --> 00:10:09,542
Shorefast puts up seed money
for new businesses, too--

325
00:10:09,608 --> 00:10:11,911
a quarter of a million so far.

326
00:10:11,978 --> 00:10:12,000
And then you put your plant in.

327
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:13,346
And then you put your plant in.

328
00:10:13,412 --> 00:10:17,383
A $7,500 microloan went to
Dwight Budden and his father,

329
00:10:17,450 --> 00:10:18,000
Hayward, a former fisher
who left Fogo Island when

330
00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,486
Hayward, a former fisher
who left Fogo Island when

331
00:10:20,553 --> 00:10:23,055
the industry collapsed.

332
00:10:23,122 --> 00:10:24,000
He's back now as a
hydroponic farmer,

333
00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,292
He's back now as a
hydroponic farmer,

334
00:10:26,359 --> 00:10:28,194
growing greens for the inn.

335
00:10:28,260 --> 00:10:30,000
Yeah, there's our kale.

336
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:30,730
Yeah, there's our kale.

337
00:10:30,796 --> 00:10:32,398
Does Howard eat kale?

338
00:10:32,465 --> 00:10:33,132
Not too much.

339
00:10:33,199 --> 00:10:34,233
[LAUGHTER]

340
00:10:34,734 --> 00:10:36,000
Beyond the kale, new
culture is taking root.

341
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:37,670
Beyond the kale, new
culture is taking root.

342
00:10:37,737 --> 00:10:41,407
Futuristic-looking studios
now speckle the landscape,

343
00:10:41,474 --> 00:10:42,000
part of Shorefast's
ambition to bring

344
00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:43,843
part of Shorefast's
ambition to bring

345
00:10:43,909 --> 00:10:46,445
artists and residents to Fogo.

346
00:10:46,512 --> 00:10:48,000
And back at the inn, a chef
turns cod into haute cuisine.

347
00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:52,418
And back at the inn, a chef
turns cod into haute cuisine.

348
00:10:52,485 --> 00:10:54,000
If your dad saw cod with
magnolia oil and sea foam--

349
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,288
If your dad saw cod with
magnolia oil and sea foam--

350
00:10:56,355 --> 00:10:56,889
And porcini.

351
00:10:56,956 --> 00:10:59,258
--and porcini,
what would he say?

352
00:10:59,325 --> 00:10:59,925
Yes.

353
00:10:59,992 --> 00:11:00,000
First thing he'd say,
can you really eat that?

354
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,861
First thing he'd say,
can you really eat that?

355
00:11:01,927 --> 00:11:03,629
You can do more than eat cod.

356
00:11:03,696 --> 00:11:05,631
You can fish for it again.

357
00:11:05,698 --> 00:11:06,000
Now that a decades-long
ban has been eased,

358
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,367
Now that a decades-long
ban has been eased,

359
00:11:08,434 --> 00:11:11,270
Fogo Island's fishers
are back hauling cod.

360
00:11:11,337 --> 00:11:12,000
We ventured out of Fogo Harbor
with brothers Glen and Jerry

361
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,607
We ventured out of Fogo Harbor
with brothers Glen and Jerry

362
00:11:14,673 --> 00:11:15,107
Best--

363
00:11:15,174 --> 00:11:16,509
You know we're
gonna fish tonight.

364
00:11:16,575 --> 00:11:18,000
--the fifth generation of their
family to harvest these waters.

365
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,379
--the fifth generation of their
family to harvest these waters.

366
00:11:20,446 --> 00:11:22,515
You go east, your
next stop is Ireland.

367
00:11:22,581 --> 00:11:23,082
Ireland?

368
00:11:23,149 --> 00:11:24,000
We're not going there today.

369
00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:24,817
We're not going there today.

370
00:11:24,884 --> 00:11:26,218
Hand over hand, like that.

371
00:11:26,285 --> 00:11:29,555
The Best brothers showed us the
traditional Newfoundland way

372
00:11:29,622 --> 00:11:30,000
of fishing with a handline, 150
down, no rods, reels, or nets.

373
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:35,394
of fishing with a handline, 150
down, no rods, reels, or nets.

374
00:11:35,461 --> 00:11:36,000
Now we're talking.

375
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:37,063
Now we're talking.

376
00:11:37,129 --> 00:11:38,397
That's a beauty.

377
00:11:38,464 --> 00:11:41,434
Up comes cod, without
much of a fight.

378
00:11:41,500 --> 00:11:42,000
Now that's a nice cod.

379
00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:42,902
Now that's a nice cod.

380
00:11:42,968 --> 00:11:45,271
That's probably a 20-pound fish.

381
00:11:45,337 --> 00:11:48,000
Cod is making a comeback
in the North Atlantic.

382
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:48,774
Cod is making a comeback
in the North Atlantic.

383
00:11:48,841 --> 00:11:51,877
Canada still imposes
catch limits.

384
00:11:51,944 --> 00:11:54,000
But when the best
get down to business,

385
00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:54,113
But when the best
get down to business,

386
00:11:54,180 --> 00:11:57,283
they use an automated system
to drop thousands of hooks

387
00:11:57,349 --> 00:11:58,818
in the water at a time.

388
00:11:58,884 --> 00:12:00,000
We watched them offload 20,000
pounds of cod from a single

389
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,488
We watched them offload 20,000
pounds of cod from a single

390
00:12:02,555 --> 00:12:03,589
trip.

391
00:12:03,656 --> 00:12:06,000
What's more, shellfish has done
the unthinkable and dethroned

392
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:07,226
What's more, shellfish has done
the unthinkable and dethroned

393
00:12:07,293 --> 00:12:09,128
cod as king.

394
00:12:09,195 --> 00:12:12,000
Crab and shrimp now make up
80% of Glen Best's business,

395
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:13,399
Crab and shrimp now make up
80% of Glen Best's business,

396
00:12:13,466 --> 00:12:15,201
and he's never
had a better year.

397
00:12:15,267 --> 00:12:18,000
You told me you caught
400,000 pounds of snow crab.

398
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:18,704
You told me you caught
400,000 pounds of snow crab.

399
00:12:18,771 --> 00:12:22,575
At $760 a pound, that's
$3 million bucks.

400
00:12:22,641 --> 00:12:23,375
That's pretty good.

401
00:12:23,442 --> 00:12:24,000
Yeah, it was a good year.

402
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,144
Yeah, it was a good year.

403
00:12:25,211 --> 00:12:27,246
But a thriving
fishery isn't always

404
00:12:27,313 --> 00:12:29,048
enough to keep the kids around.

405
00:12:29,115 --> 00:12:30,000
Best's three children
have moved away from Fogo

406
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,517
Best's three children
have moved away from Fogo

407
00:12:31,584 --> 00:12:33,319
to pursue other careers.

408
00:12:33,385 --> 00:12:34,653
[BIRDS SQUAWKING]

409
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:36,000
Your family's been doing
this for generations.

410
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:37,089
Your family's been doing
this for generations.

411
00:12:37,156 --> 00:12:39,492
You named this boat
after your dad.

412
00:12:39,558 --> 00:12:42,000
So the sad part about
it is that Jerry

413
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:42,261
So the sad part about
it is that Jerry

414
00:12:42,328 --> 00:12:45,164
and myself, we probably could
be the last generation that

415
00:12:45,231 --> 00:12:47,666
will fish within our family.

416
00:12:47,733 --> 00:12:48,000
When the day comes
that that happens,

417
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,136
When the day comes
that that happens,

418
00:12:50,202 --> 00:12:53,139
that will probably be a sad day.

419
00:12:53,205 --> 00:12:54,000
Still, Fogo Island's
population has stabilized.

420
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,509
Still, Fogo Island's
population has stabilized.

421
00:12:56,575 --> 00:12:59,311
There's hope the next
census will show an uptick.

422
00:12:59,378 --> 00:13:00,000
Babies are the island's
biggest celebrities.

423
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:01,747
Babies are the island's
biggest celebrities.

424
00:13:01,814 --> 00:13:04,984
But as ever, with growth
come growing pains.

425
00:13:05,050 --> 00:13:06,000
It's already become
one of those islands

426
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:07,219
It's already become
one of those islands

427
00:13:07,286 --> 00:13:10,823
where you have to pray to
get a spot on the ferry.

428
00:13:10,890 --> 00:13:12,000
Jennifer Sexton spent Summers
on Fogo Island visiting

429
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,059
Jennifer Sexton spent Summers
on Fogo Island visiting

430
00:13:14,126 --> 00:13:15,728
her grandparents.

431
00:13:15,794 --> 00:13:18,000
She recently moved here
from Western Canada

432
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:18,130
She recently moved here
from Western Canada

433
00:13:18,197 --> 00:13:20,900
to open this coffee
joint, where locals mix

434
00:13:20,966 --> 00:13:23,068
with those who come from away.

435
00:13:23,135 --> 00:13:24,000
Everybody asks about the inn.

436
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:24,670
Everybody asks about the inn.

437
00:13:24,737 --> 00:13:26,272
What do you tell them?

438
00:13:26,338 --> 00:13:30,000
Well, it's a
blessing and a curse.

439
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:30,409
Well, it's a
blessing and a curse.

440
00:13:30,476 --> 00:13:33,012
Her regulars grumble
that not long ago,

441
00:13:33,078 --> 00:13:36,000
they could get a home
for $25,000, Canadian.

442
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:36,682
they could get a home
for $25,000, Canadian.

443
00:13:36,749 --> 00:13:39,285
Now homes cost 10 times as much.

444
00:13:39,351 --> 00:13:41,487
For somebody from away,
that wouldn't be a lot.

445
00:13:41,554 --> 00:13:42,000
But for somebody from here,
that is a lot of money.

446
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,257
But for somebody from here,
that is a lot of money.

447
00:13:45,324 --> 00:13:47,760
Zita Cobb, the woman
who turned this tide,

448
00:13:47,826 --> 00:13:48,000
says she doesn't want
unchecked growth either.

449
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,896
says she doesn't want
unchecked growth either.

450
00:13:50,963 --> 00:13:54,000
As the economy grows,
we will be smaller

451
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:54,166
As the economy grows,
we will be smaller

452
00:13:54,233 --> 00:13:56,168
as a percentage of
the whole economy.

453
00:13:56,235 --> 00:13:59,071
A rare business leader that
wants less market share.

454
00:13:59,138 --> 00:14:00,000
We want less market share.

455
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:00,806
We want less market share.

456
00:14:00,873 --> 00:14:01,440
Exactly.

457
00:14:01,507 --> 00:14:03,042
You said it with a
smile on your face,

458
00:14:03,108 --> 00:14:05,678
but there's a lot of
responsibility here.

459
00:14:05,744 --> 00:14:06,000
Yeah.

460
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:06,178
Yeah.

461
00:14:06,245 --> 00:14:07,413
The consequences are huge.

462
00:14:07,479 --> 00:14:10,349
Because, as my brother
says, yes, our parents

463
00:14:10,416 --> 00:14:12,000
will get out of the
graveyard and wring our necks

464
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:12,384
will get out of the
graveyard and wring our necks

465
00:14:12,451 --> 00:14:14,220
if we mess this up.

466
00:14:14,286 --> 00:14:17,189
What's your response to the
capitalist who would say,

467
00:14:17,256 --> 00:14:18,000
why are you limiting
your growth?

468
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:19,225
why are you limiting
your growth?

469
00:14:19,291 --> 00:14:22,294
That is the
techno-economic question.

470
00:14:22,361 --> 00:14:23,862
But I start with a
different question.

471
00:14:23,929 --> 00:14:24,000
What are we optimizing for?

472
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:25,331
What are we optimizing for?

473
00:14:25,397 --> 00:14:27,199
We are optimizing for place.

474
00:14:27,266 --> 00:14:29,034
We're optimizing for community.

475
00:14:29,101 --> 00:14:30,000
The pillars of this
community have been won over.

476
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:31,737
The pillars of this
community have been won over.

477
00:14:31,804 --> 00:14:34,740
If Cobb's experiment helps
diversify the economy,

478
00:14:34,807 --> 00:14:36,000
Glen Best says he's all in.

479
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:37,509
Glen Best says he's all in.

480
00:14:37,576 --> 00:14:39,311
It's not like we're
overrun by tourism.

481
00:14:39,378 --> 00:14:40,679
That's not the
way it works here.

482
00:14:40,746 --> 00:14:42,000
We're not the Venice
of Newfoundland.

483
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,216
We're not the Venice
of Newfoundland.

484
00:14:44,283 --> 00:14:46,685
We're not out of
patience with people yet.

485
00:14:46,752 --> 00:14:48,000
On our last night
at the shed party--

486
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:48,520
On our last night
at the shed party--

487
00:14:48,587 --> 00:14:51,757
[FESTIVE MUSIC]

488
00:14:51,824 --> 00:14:54,000
--we got the full sweep of
Fogo island, its hospitality

489
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:55,494
--we got the full sweep of
Fogo island, its hospitality

490
00:14:55,561 --> 00:14:58,597
and its contrasts
laid out on the table.

491
00:14:58,664 --> 00:15:00,000
Cod and crab, young and
old, warmth, wit, and this.

492
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,603
Cod and crab, young and
old, warmth, wit, and this.

493
00:15:04,670 --> 00:15:06,000
(SINGING) Don't tell--

494
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:07,039
(SINGING) Don't tell--

495
00:15:07,106 --> 00:15:09,842
A traditional song
delivered with a handshake,

496
00:15:09,908 --> 00:15:12,000
a kind of hope that comes
tempered by history.

497
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:13,212
a kind of hope that comes
tempered by history.

498
00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:17,082
The undoing of this traditional
way of making a life

499
00:15:17,149 --> 00:15:18,000
was very painful.

500
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:19,285
was very painful.

501
00:15:19,351 --> 00:15:21,553
I think I still carry
those broken hearts.

502
00:15:21,620 --> 00:15:24,000
I think that kind of
pain doesn't go away.

503
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:24,623
I think that kind of
pain doesn't go away.

504
00:15:24,690 --> 00:15:27,326
To what extent has
that been repaired

505
00:15:27,393 --> 00:15:29,628
by the work you've done
since you've come back?

506
00:15:29,695 --> 00:15:30,000
Yeah, I think it
actually does help.

507
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,130
Yeah, I think it
actually does help.

508
00:15:31,196 --> 00:15:32,898
You can heal a broken heart.

509
00:15:32,965 --> 00:15:36,000
(SINGING) Be satisfied
with what you've got

510
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,070
(SINGING) Be satisfied
with what you've got

511
00:15:38,137 --> 00:15:41,307
leave well enough alone

512
00:15:41,373 --> 00:15:42,000
[CHEERS, APPLAUSE]

513
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:43,309
[CHEERS, APPLAUSE]

514
00:15:44,276 --> 00:15:47,680
[CLOCK TICKING]

515
00:15:52,051 --> 00:15:54,000
When workers broke ground on
an underground parking lot

516
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:54,987
When workers broke ground on
an underground parking lot

517
00:15:55,054 --> 00:15:56,922
in the heart of
Rome 18 years ago,

518
00:15:56,989 --> 00:16:00,000
they had no idea what their
backhoes were about to unearth.

519
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:00,459
they had no idea what their
backhoes were about to unearth.

520
00:16:00,526 --> 00:16:03,629
The site turned out to be what
Italian archaeologists believe

521
00:16:03,696 --> 00:16:06,000
was once the pleasure gardens
of the Roman emperor Caligula,

522
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,099
was once the pleasure gardens
of the Roman emperor Caligula,

523
00:16:07,166 --> 00:16:10,402
where some 2,000 years ago,
all sorts of lavish parties,

524
00:16:10,469 --> 00:16:12,000
royal intrigue, and debauched
behavior likely took place.

525
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,106
royal intrigue, and debauched
behavior likely took place.

526
00:16:14,173 --> 00:16:17,343
Caligula became the third
emperor of Rome in 37 AD,

527
00:16:17,409 --> 00:16:18,000
and he reigned for
barely four years.

528
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:19,712
and he reigned for
barely four years.

529
00:16:19,778 --> 00:16:22,948
He's been portrayed as one of
the most deranged and despicable

530
00:16:23,015 --> 00:16:24,000
Roman emperors ever to rule.

531
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:24,950
Roman emperors ever to rule.

532
00:16:25,017 --> 00:16:27,353
But as we first
reported in 2021,

533
00:16:27,419 --> 00:16:30,000
scholars have been
re-examining Caligula's story

534
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:30,322
scholars have been
re-examining Caligula's story

535
00:16:30,389 --> 00:16:32,324
to see if history has it right.

536
00:16:32,391 --> 00:16:34,760
Could we discover some
new fragments of truth

537
00:16:34,827 --> 00:16:36,000
in Caligula's gardens?

538
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:36,395
in Caligula's gardens?

539
00:16:36,462 --> 00:16:40,866
Anderson Cooper went
to Rome to find out.

540
00:16:40,933 --> 00:16:42,000
The temples and
palaces of ancient Rome

541
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:42,935
The temples and
palaces of ancient Rome

542
00:16:43,001 --> 00:16:45,170
may have crumbled long
ago, but the legend

543
00:16:45,237 --> 00:16:47,806
of one of its oddest
emperors lives on.

544
00:16:47,873 --> 00:16:48,000
Down on your knees, all of you.

545
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:49,775
Down on your knees, all of you.

546
00:16:49,842 --> 00:16:51,110
Bend your heads.

547
00:16:51,176 --> 00:16:52,978
I shall sever each
one at the neck.

548
00:16:53,045 --> 00:16:54,000
What most people
know about Caligula

549
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:54,947
What most people
know about Caligula

550
00:16:55,013 --> 00:16:58,283
comes from this iconic
BBC series I, Claudius,

551
00:16:58,350 --> 00:17:00,000
which was based on
two historical novels

552
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:00,652
which was based on
two historical novels

553
00:17:00,719 --> 00:17:03,021
by Robert Graves.

554
00:17:03,088 --> 00:17:06,000
In the show, Caligula turns
his palace into a brothel,

555
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:07,192
In the show, Caligula turns
his palace into a brothel,

556
00:17:07,259 --> 00:17:10,529
makes his horse a
high-ranking senator,

557
00:17:10,596 --> 00:17:12,000
and declares himself
a living god.

558
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:13,165
and declares himself
a living god.

559
00:17:13,232 --> 00:17:16,602
For now, you may
address me as Zeus.

560
00:17:16,668 --> 00:17:18,000
It's a torrid tale of
incest, infanticide--

561
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,239
It's a torrid tale of
incest, infanticide--

562
00:17:20,305 --> 00:17:21,740
Don't go in there.

563
00:17:21,807 --> 00:17:23,709
[MANIACAL LAUGH]

564
00:17:23,776 --> 00:17:24,000
--and imperial madness.

565
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:25,911
--and imperial madness.

566
00:17:25,978 --> 00:17:27,379
Help me.

567
00:17:27,446 --> 00:17:30,000
But how much of that
portrayal is real?

568
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:30,115
But how much of that
portrayal is real?

569
00:17:30,182 --> 00:17:34,620
Did Caligula impregnate his
sister and then eat her baby?

570
00:17:34,686 --> 00:17:36,000
[LAUGHS] Caligula did
not impregnate his sister

571
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:37,923
[LAUGHS] Caligula did
not impregnate his sister

572
00:17:37,990 --> 00:17:38,824
and eat her baby.

573
00:17:38,891 --> 00:17:42,000
Did Caligula make a horse a
high-ranking senator or consul?

574
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:42,428
Did Caligula make a horse a
high-ranking senator or consul?

575
00:17:42,494 --> 00:17:43,228
[LAUGHS] No, no.

576
00:17:43,295 --> 00:17:44,062
Of course he didn't.

577
00:17:44,129 --> 00:17:46,532
Did he turn his
palace into a brothel?

578
00:17:46,598 --> 00:17:47,499
No.

579
00:17:47,566 --> 00:17:48,000
So where did all
these ideas come from?

580
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,068
So where did all
these ideas come from?

581
00:17:50,135 --> 00:17:53,672
Well, largely from
Robert Graves.

582
00:17:53,739 --> 00:17:54,000
His I, Claudius
novels are awesome.

583
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,476
His I, Claudius
novels are awesome.

584
00:17:57,543 --> 00:17:59,678
But he wasn't an academic.

585
00:17:59,745 --> 00:18:00,000
He was a writer.

586
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:00,779
He was a writer.

587
00:18:00,846 --> 00:18:04,383
Andrew Wallace-Hadrill is an
academic, a professor emeritus

588
00:18:04,450 --> 00:18:06,000
at the University of
Cambridge, and he's closely

589
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:07,085
at the University of
Cambridge, and he's closely

590
00:18:07,152 --> 00:18:09,087
studied the few
written accounts that

591
00:18:09,154 --> 00:18:10,956
survive from Caligula's time.

592
00:18:11,023 --> 00:18:12,000
I grew up watching I, Claudius.

593
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:12,791
I grew up watching I, Claudius.

594
00:18:12,858 --> 00:18:13,792
I loved the book.

595
00:18:13,859 --> 00:18:15,694
I love the old TV series.

596
00:18:15,761 --> 00:18:18,000
You're telling me a lot
of that just wasn't true.

597
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:18,163
You're telling me a lot
of that just wasn't true.

598
00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:22,167
Now, what I'm not denying is
they had sex in the palace.

599
00:18:22,234 --> 00:18:24,000
Of course they had sex.

600
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:25,204
Of course they had sex.

601
00:18:25,270 --> 00:18:27,840
Pretty spectacularly,
of course they had sex.

602
00:18:27,906 --> 00:18:29,107
[LAUGHS] Pretty spectacularly.?

603
00:18:29,174 --> 00:18:30,000
But Wallace-Hadrill
does believe Caligula

604
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:31,577
But Wallace-Hadrill
does believe Caligula

605
00:18:31,643 --> 00:18:34,046
could be very
impulsive and brutal,

606
00:18:34,112 --> 00:18:36,000
and he doesn't rule
out the possibility

607
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:36,014
and he doesn't rule
out the possibility

608
00:18:36,081 --> 00:18:39,451
that he may have had a severe
physical or mental disorder.

609
00:18:39,518 --> 00:18:42,000
I think there's a serious danger
that Caligula was pathological,

610
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,456
I think there's a serious danger
that Caligula was pathological,

611
00:18:44,523 --> 00:18:48,000
that he actually didn't care
about the hurt he caused.

612
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:49,862
that he actually didn't care
about the hurt he caused.

613
00:18:49,928 --> 00:18:52,664
Wallace-Hadrill says Robert
Graves's novels were largely

614
00:18:52,731 --> 00:18:54,000
based on stories published
around 121 AD, 80

615
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,368
based on stories published
around 121 AD, 80

616
00:18:56,435 --> 00:18:59,371
years after Caligula's
death, by Suetonius,

617
00:18:59,438 --> 00:19:00,000
a well-known biographer and
advisor to later emperors.

618
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,941
a well-known biographer and
advisor to later emperors.

619
00:19:03,008 --> 00:19:06,000
But Suetonius often had to rely
on secondhand stories and gossip

620
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:07,212
But Suetonius often had to rely
on secondhand stories and gossip

621
00:19:07,279 --> 00:19:09,248
from members of
the imperial court.

622
00:19:09,314 --> 00:19:12,000
These members of the
court, it's like staffers

623
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,018
These members of the
court, it's like staffers

624
00:19:13,085 --> 00:19:14,119
in the White House.

625
00:19:14,186 --> 00:19:18,000
It's like all those leaky
people in Buckingham Palace.

626
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:18,023
It's like all those leaky
people in Buckingham Palace.

627
00:19:18,090 --> 00:19:19,591
What are these stories worth?

628
00:19:19,658 --> 00:19:21,894
How can you pin them down?

629
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,000
Archaeology can help
pin down the past,

630
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:24,630
Archaeology can help
pin down the past,

631
00:19:24,696 --> 00:19:27,232
but in a city full
of amazing ruins,

632
00:19:27,299 --> 00:19:30,000
not much directly linked to
Caligula had been discovered.

633
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:30,936
not much directly linked to
Caligula had been discovered.

634
00:19:31,003 --> 00:19:34,940
That is, until 2006,
when a pension fund

635
00:19:35,007 --> 00:19:36,000
for Italian doctors,
called Enpam,

636
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,309
for Italian doctors,
called Enpam,

637
00:19:37,376 --> 00:19:39,344
started digging an
underground parking

638
00:19:39,411 --> 00:19:41,280
garage for its new
office building

639
00:19:41,346 --> 00:19:42,000
in the Esquilino
neighborhood of Rome.

640
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:43,982
in the Esquilino
neighborhood of Rome.

641
00:19:44,049 --> 00:19:47,586
In ancient times, this was one
of a number of tranquil garden

642
00:19:47,653 --> 00:19:48,000
estates located about
10 minutes by carriage

643
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,656
estates located about
10 minutes by carriage

644
00:19:50,722 --> 00:19:52,758
from the bustling Roman forum.

645
00:19:52,824 --> 00:19:54,000
These recreations from Rome's
superintendent of antiquities

646
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,528
These recreations from Rome's
superintendent of antiquities

647
00:19:56,595 --> 00:20:00,000
give some sense of the sprawling
grounds and buildings enjoyed

648
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:00,065
give some sense of the sprawling
grounds and buildings enjoyed

649
00:20:00,132 --> 00:20:04,036
by emperors and their guests
for about four centuries.

650
00:20:04,102 --> 00:20:06,000
It took archaeologists
nine years

651
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:06,338
It took archaeologists
nine years

652
00:20:06,405 --> 00:20:09,942
to carefully recover more than
a million pieces of the past,

653
00:20:10,008 --> 00:20:12,000
while an underground parking
garage and modern building

654
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:12,644
while an underground parking
garage and modern building

655
00:20:12,711 --> 00:20:14,780
was built around them.

656
00:20:14,846 --> 00:20:17,883
Everything found was taken
to a large warehouse, where

657
00:20:17,950 --> 00:20:18,000
it was closely analyzed,
logged into a database,

658
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,186
it was closely analyzed,
logged into a database,

659
00:20:21,253 --> 00:20:24,000
and, when possible,
painstakingly restored.

660
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:24,623
and, when possible,
painstakingly restored.

661
00:20:24,690 --> 00:20:26,625
The office buildings
completed now

662
00:20:26,692 --> 00:20:30,000
and Rome's newest archaeological
site, the Nymphaeum Museum,

663
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:31,029
and Rome's newest archaeological
site, the Nymphaeum Museum,

664
00:20:31,096 --> 00:20:33,498
opened in the
basement, preserving

665
00:20:33,565 --> 00:20:36,000
some of the excavation
and suggesting

666
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:36,034
some of the excavation
and suggesting

667
00:20:36,101 --> 00:20:39,137
what a lush and lavish
place this once was.

668
00:20:39,204 --> 00:20:42,000
It contains thousands of items
from the second century BC

669
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:42,608
It contains thousands of items
from the second century BC

670
00:20:42,674 --> 00:20:46,044
through the fifth century AD,
like this drinking glass that

671
00:20:46,111 --> 00:20:48,000
somehow survived largely
intact for 1,900 years.

672
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,616
somehow survived largely
intact for 1,900 years.

673
00:20:50,682 --> 00:20:53,552
Mirella Serlorenzi,
director of excavations

674
00:20:53,619 --> 00:20:54,000
for the Italian
Ministry of Culture,

675
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,420
for the Italian
Ministry of Culture,

676
00:20:55,487 --> 00:20:59,224
took us to a small staircase
normally closed to the public

677
00:20:59,291 --> 00:21:00,000
and brought us to the
level of the ground

678
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,226
and brought us to the
level of the ground

679
00:21:01,293 --> 00:21:02,961
during Caligula's time.

680
00:21:03,028 --> 00:21:06,000
And so back then, in the first
century, 2,000 years ago,

681
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:07,566
And so back then, in the first
century, 2,000 years ago,

682
00:21:07,633 --> 00:21:09,001
this was outside?

683
00:21:09,067 --> 00:21:11,203
[SPEAKING ITALIAN]

684
00:21:11,269 --> 00:21:12,000
(INTERPRETED) It was
clearly a garden,

685
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:12,771
(INTERPRETED) It was
clearly a garden,

686
00:21:12,838 --> 00:21:14,873
because we found in
the layers traces

687
00:21:14,940 --> 00:21:16,475
of the roots of the plants.

688
00:21:16,541 --> 00:21:18,000
And in this part
here, the staircase

689
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:18,810
And in this part
here, the staircase

690
00:21:18,877 --> 00:21:22,614
connected the various
levels of the garden.

691
00:21:22,681 --> 00:21:23,982
Is it possible to walk on it?

692
00:21:24,049 --> 00:21:26,118
[SPEAKING ITALIAN]

693
00:21:27,352 --> 00:21:28,487
Excellent.

694
00:21:28,553 --> 00:21:30,000
This is what Serlorenzi's
team believes the area looked

695
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:31,790
This is what Serlorenzi's
team believes the area looked

696
00:21:31,857 --> 00:21:33,892
like during Caligula's reign.

697
00:21:33,959 --> 00:21:35,327
[SPEAKING ITALIAN]

698
00:21:35,394 --> 00:21:36,000
We ended up talking for a
long time on the garden steps.

699
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,664
We ended up talking for a
long time on the garden steps.

700
00:21:38,730 --> 00:21:40,265
Is it all right to sit down?

701
00:21:40,332 --> 00:21:40,832
OK.

702
00:21:40,899 --> 00:21:42,000
There was something
about touching

703
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:42,267
There was something
about touching

704
00:21:42,334 --> 00:21:44,503
those old slabs of
marble that made

705
00:21:44,569 --> 00:21:47,139
ancient history feel very real.

706
00:21:47,205 --> 00:21:48,000
I can't believe that we
are sitting on the steps

707
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:49,675
I can't believe that we
are sitting on the steps

708
00:21:49,741 --> 00:21:52,511
that Caligula may
have walked on.

709
00:21:52,577 --> 00:21:53,378
It's amazing.

710
00:21:53,445 --> 00:21:54,000
She told us the water
pipe by our feet

711
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,480
She told us the water
pipe by our feet

712
00:21:55,547 --> 00:21:59,117
was installed by Caligula's
successor, his uncle Claudius.

713
00:21:59,184 --> 00:22:00,000
His name is stamped on the pipe.

714
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:01,887
His name is stamped on the pipe.

715
00:22:01,953 --> 00:22:03,989
One of the most remarkable
things about Caligula

716
00:22:04,056 --> 00:22:06,000
is that he lived to
become emperor at all.

717
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:06,358
is that he lived to
become emperor at all.

718
00:22:06,425 --> 00:22:09,928
The emperor before him, his
adoptive grandfather, Tiberius,

719
00:22:09,995 --> 00:22:12,000
was suspected of killing
Caligula's father, mother,

720
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:12,798
was suspected of killing
Caligula's father, mother,

721
00:22:12,864 --> 00:22:14,132
and two brothers.

722
00:22:14,199 --> 00:22:16,568
And when Caligula
turned 19, he was

723
00:22:16,635 --> 00:22:18,000
summoned to live with
Tiberius at his palace

724
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:19,204
summoned to live with
Tiberius at his palace

725
00:22:19,271 --> 00:22:21,406
on the island of Capri.

726
00:22:21,473 --> 00:22:23,709
It sits high on a
cliff, and it said

727
00:22:23,775 --> 00:22:24,000
Tiberius would have
people who crossed him

728
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:25,811
Tiberius would have
people who crossed him

729
00:22:25,877 --> 00:22:28,013
tossed onto the rocks below.

730
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,000
Through some combination
of flattery and deceit,

731
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:30,749
Through some combination
of flattery and deceit,

732
00:22:30,816 --> 00:22:34,786
Caligula managed to survive here
for six years with a man who may

733
00:22:34,853 --> 00:22:36,000
have killed much of his family.

734
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:36,888
have killed much of his family.

735
00:22:36,955 --> 00:22:40,726
He became Tiberius's
successor in 37 AD.

736
00:22:40,792 --> 00:22:42,000
He was just 24 years old
and in charge of an empire.

737
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,463
He was just 24 years old
and in charge of an empire.

738
00:22:44,529 --> 00:22:47,532
He was in a very, very
difficult position.

739
00:22:47,599 --> 00:22:48,000
I like the saying of Tiberius,
who says being emperor

740
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:52,904
I like the saying of Tiberius,
who says being emperor

741
00:22:52,971 --> 00:22:54,000
is like having to hold
a wolf by the ears.

742
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,242
is like having to hold
a wolf by the ears.

743
00:22:57,309 --> 00:23:00,000
There's this sort
of savage beast

744
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:00,078
There's this sort
of savage beast

745
00:23:00,145 --> 00:23:02,647
that can turn on you any moment.

746
00:23:02,714 --> 00:23:04,549
What is so insecure about it?

747
00:23:04,616 --> 00:23:06,000
Was it the system itself?

748
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:06,318
Was it the system itself?

749
00:23:06,384 --> 00:23:08,787
You've got this
enormous concentration

750
00:23:08,854 --> 00:23:12,000
of power and resource,
wealth, concentrated

751
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:12,758
of power and resource,
wealth, concentrated

752
00:23:12,824 --> 00:23:18,000
on the palace in Rome, and
everyone wants in on it.

753
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:18,029
on the palace in Rome, and
everyone wants in on it.

754
00:23:18,096 --> 00:23:21,767
They are prepared to do
anything to seize this power.

755
00:23:21,833 --> 00:23:24,000
Back then, the Roman Empire
dominated the Mediterranean

756
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:24,569
Back then, the Roman Empire
dominated the Mediterranean

757
00:23:24,636 --> 00:23:27,072
world, and items
found in the gardens

758
00:23:27,139 --> 00:23:30,000
give some sense of the riches
that flowed towards Rome.

759
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:30,809
give some sense of the riches
that flowed towards Rome.

760
00:23:30,876 --> 00:23:32,811
Rare and intricately
carved marble

761
00:23:32,878 --> 00:23:35,013
from the far reaches
of the empire decorated

762
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:36,000
the walls of the buildings.

763
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:36,581
the walls of the buildings.

764
00:23:36,648 --> 00:23:38,450
Glass recovered at
the site appears

765
00:23:38,517 --> 00:23:40,452
to have been used in
very early windows,

766
00:23:40,519 --> 00:23:42,000
and large amounts
of oysters appear

767
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:42,187
and large amounts
of oysters appear

768
00:23:42,254 --> 00:23:44,489
to have been served at meals.

769
00:23:44,556 --> 00:23:46,525
Mirella Serlorenzi
says her team recovered

770
00:23:46,591 --> 00:23:48,000
the bones of wild animals that
would have been brought here

771
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:48,960
the bones of wild animals that
would have been brought here

772
00:23:49,027 --> 00:23:50,562
from faraway lands.

773
00:23:50,629 --> 00:23:53,799
She showed us the leg of an
ostrich, the foot of a lion,

774
00:23:53,865 --> 00:23:54,000
and the tooth of a bear.

775
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:55,066
and the tooth of a bear.

776
00:23:55,133 --> 00:23:56,768
[SPEAKING ITALIAN]

777
00:23:56,835 --> 00:23:59,037
(INTERPRETED) It's evident
that wild animals were here

778
00:23:59,104 --> 00:24:00,000
for the entertainment
of the emperor.

779
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:00,839
for the entertainment
of the emperor.

780
00:24:00,906 --> 00:24:03,208
Games were carried out
here with gladiators,

781
00:24:03,275 --> 00:24:06,000
we can imagine, and battles
with ferocious beasts.

782
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,379
we can imagine, and battles
with ferocious beasts.

783
00:24:07,445 --> 00:24:10,215
When he became emperor,
Caligula started improving

784
00:24:10,282 --> 00:24:11,650
Rome's infrastructure.

785
00:24:11,716 --> 00:24:12,000
He began work on new aqueducts.

786
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:13,819
He began work on new aqueducts.

787
00:24:13,885 --> 00:24:15,620
He also cut taxes.

788
00:24:15,687 --> 00:24:18,000
Serlorenzi says this coin,
found in the gardens,

789
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:18,523
Serlorenzi says this coin,
found in the gardens,

790
00:24:18,590 --> 00:24:22,594
was minted around 39 AD to
remind Romans that Caligula

791
00:24:22,661 --> 00:24:24,000
got rid of a sales tax.

792
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:24,162
got rid of a sales tax.

793
00:24:24,229 --> 00:24:27,632
2,000 years ago, politicians
were just like politicians

794
00:24:27,699 --> 00:24:29,401
today.

795
00:24:29,467 --> 00:24:30,000
If they cut taxes, they wanted
everybody to know about it.

796
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,304
If they cut taxes, they wanted
everybody to know about it.

797
00:24:32,370 --> 00:24:33,238
[SPEAKING ITALIAN]

798
00:24:33,305 --> 00:24:34,706
(INTERPRETED) That's
exactly right.

799
00:24:34,773 --> 00:24:36,000
The coins are a form
of imperial propaganda.

800
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:37,943
The coins are a form
of imperial propaganda.

801
00:24:38,009 --> 00:24:40,645
But something changed
as the years progressed.

802
00:24:40,712 --> 00:24:42,000
Suetonius says Caligula
wanted to be treated as a god

803
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,982
Suetonius says Caligula
wanted to be treated as a god

804
00:24:44,049 --> 00:24:47,752
and connected his palace in the
Roman forum to a major temple.

805
00:24:47,819 --> 00:24:48,000
That's the temple of
Castor and Pollux?

806
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,387
That's the temple of
Castor and Pollux?

807
00:24:49,454 --> 00:24:49,921
Exactly.

808
00:24:49,988 --> 00:24:50,655
Exactly.

809
00:24:50,722 --> 00:24:53,225
And this column would have been
standing there for more than

810
00:24:53,291 --> 00:24:54,000
2,000 years.

811
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:54,526
2,000 years.

812
00:24:54,593 --> 00:24:56,761
They have been
created in year six.

813
00:24:56,828 --> 00:24:58,997
Paolo Carafa, a
professor of archaeology

814
00:24:59,064 --> 00:25:00,000
at Sapienza University
of Rome, has

815
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,233
at Sapienza University
of Rome, has

816
00:25:01,299 --> 00:25:05,303
been studying the Roman forum
area for more than 35 years.

817
00:25:05,370 --> 00:25:06,000
So, according to Suetonius,
Caligula extended his house up

818
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,775
So, according to Suetonius,
Caligula extended his house up

819
00:25:10,842 --> 00:25:12,000
to that temple.

820
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:12,043
to that temple.

821
00:25:12,110 --> 00:25:13,278
Exactly.

822
00:25:13,345 --> 00:25:14,846
Have you found evidence of that?

823
00:25:14,913 --> 00:25:17,749
Behind the temple,
recent excavation

824
00:25:17,816 --> 00:25:18,000
have identified fragments of
a large house, a luxury house.

825
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,887
have identified fragments of
a large house, a luxury house.

826
00:25:21,953 --> 00:25:24,000
He can't say for sure
it was Caligula's house,

827
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:24,289
He can't say for sure
it was Caligula's house,

828
00:25:24,356 --> 00:25:26,758
but he says it comes
from that time period.

829
00:25:26,825 --> 00:25:28,760
And only an emperor
like Caligula

830
00:25:28,827 --> 00:25:30,000
would have dared do
something so shocking.

831
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,196
would have dared do
something so shocking.

832
00:25:31,263 --> 00:25:35,200
He wanted the temple to be
the entrance to his own house.

833
00:25:35,267 --> 00:25:36,000
Which is quite unusual.

834
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:37,502
Which is quite unusual.

835
00:25:37,569 --> 00:25:40,138
One of the things I, Claudius
seems to have gotten right,

836
00:25:40,205 --> 00:25:42,000
Wallace-Hadrill told us,
was Caligula's capacity

837
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,208
Wallace-Hadrill told us,
was Caligula's capacity

838
00:25:43,275 --> 00:25:47,078
for both physical
and mental cruelty.

839
00:25:47,145 --> 00:25:48,000
There is no doubt that
Caligula's brutal.

840
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:49,681
There is no doubt that
Caligula's brutal.

841
00:25:49,748 --> 00:25:52,384
but Suetonius says
he's not only brutal.

842
00:25:52,450 --> 00:25:54,000
He thinks it's amusing.

843
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,086
He thinks it's amusing.

844
00:25:55,153 --> 00:25:56,488
He takes pleasure in it.

845
00:25:56,554 --> 00:25:58,223
Perhaps the most
telling account comes

846
00:25:58,290 --> 00:26:00,000
from a contemporary of
Caligula's, the philosopher

847
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:00,926
from a contemporary of
Caligula's, the philosopher

848
00:26:00,992 --> 00:26:03,662
Seneca, who describes
how Caligula invited

849
00:26:03,728 --> 00:26:06,000
a father to a festive
dinner on the day he'd

850
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:06,331
a father to a festive
dinner on the day he'd

851
00:26:06,398 --> 00:26:08,333
executed the man's son.

852
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,000
And at the dinner, he
insists that the father

853
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,805
And at the dinner, he
insists that the father

854
00:26:13,872 --> 00:26:15,740
should have a jolly time.

855
00:26:15,807 --> 00:26:18,000
He plies him with wine and food.

856
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:18,410
He plies him with wine and food.

857
00:26:18,476 --> 00:26:21,680
He even plies him with
perfume and a garland.

858
00:26:21,746 --> 00:26:22,981
On the very day his son--

859
00:26:23,048 --> 00:26:24,000
On the very day.

860
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:24,416
On the very day.

861
00:26:24,482 --> 00:26:27,819
And Seneca says people
asked, how on earth

862
00:26:27,886 --> 00:26:29,321
could he endure to do it?

863
00:26:29,387 --> 00:26:30,000
And the answer is
he had a second son.

864
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,358
And the answer is
he had a second son.

865
00:26:33,425 --> 00:26:36,000
And I think that anecdote just
evokes the atmosphere of terror

866
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,596
And I think that anecdote just
evokes the atmosphere of terror

867
00:26:38,663 --> 00:26:40,065
of the court of Caligula.

868
00:26:40,131 --> 00:26:41,666
[SCREAMS]

869
00:26:41,733 --> 00:26:42,000
As I, Claudius showed,
the end came in 41 AD

870
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,170
As I, Claudius showed,
the end came in 41 AD

871
00:26:45,236 --> 00:26:47,906
when Caligula was stabbed
to death by members

872
00:26:47,973 --> 00:26:48,000
of his own imperial guard.

873
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,041
of his own imperial guard.

874
00:26:50,108 --> 00:26:53,845
He's killed by
his own guardsmen.

875
00:26:53,912 --> 00:26:54,000
But then they haven't
got a candidate.

876
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,549
But then they haven't
got a candidate.

877
00:26:57,615 --> 00:26:59,818
They don't have somebody
waiting to take over.

878
00:26:59,884 --> 00:27:00,000
There's no one in the wings
except poor old Claudius.

879
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,288
There's no one in the wings
except poor old Claudius.

880
00:27:03,355 --> 00:27:05,757
Does that argue
the point that he

881
00:27:05,824 --> 00:27:06,000
had to have been really
awful if they were

882
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,226
had to have been really
awful if they were

883
00:27:08,293 --> 00:27:09,995
so motivated to just kill him?

884
00:27:10,061 --> 00:27:10,495
Yeah.

885
00:27:10,562 --> 00:27:11,763
Yeah.

886
00:27:11,830 --> 00:27:12,000
It's an assassination born of
anger, humiliation, disgust.

887
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:18,000
It's an assassination born of
anger, humiliation, disgust.

888
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,038
It's an assassination born of
anger, humiliation, disgust.

889
00:27:20,105 --> 00:27:22,540
We can't take this anymore.

890
00:27:22,607 --> 00:27:24,000
Long after the assassination
itself, some historians

891
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:25,910
Long after the assassination
itself, some historians

892
00:27:25,977 --> 00:27:29,781
believe Caligula's enemies
assassinated his memory as well.

893
00:27:29,848 --> 00:27:30,000
There's a number of
contemporary scholars

894
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,483
There's a number of
contemporary scholars

895
00:27:31,549 --> 00:27:35,587
who have argued that Caligula's
critics distorted his memory,

896
00:27:35,653 --> 00:27:36,000
that they have falsely made him
out to be far worse than he was.

897
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,558
that they have falsely made him
out to be far worse than he was.

898
00:27:40,625 --> 00:27:41,059
Of course.

899
00:27:41,126 --> 00:27:42,000
It's like entering
a hall of mirrors.

900
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,194
It's like entering
a hall of mirrors.

901
00:27:43,261 --> 00:27:46,664
And some of them are
concave, and some are convex.

902
00:27:46,731 --> 00:27:48,000
And there are no flat mirrors.

903
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:49,067
And there are no flat mirrors.

904
00:27:49,134 --> 00:27:51,636
But isn't that
terrifying, that what

905
00:27:51,703 --> 00:27:54,000
we think we know about history
is so dependent on rumors or--

906
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,810
we think we know about history
is so dependent on rumors or--

907
00:27:58,877 --> 00:28:00,000
I think it's an enormous
mistake to look at the past

908
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,847
I think it's an enormous
mistake to look at the past

909
00:28:02,914 --> 00:28:06,000
as a series of solid rocks,
that that was definitely there,

910
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:07,385
as a series of solid rocks,
that that was definitely there,

911
00:28:07,452 --> 00:28:12,000
and that was definitely-- it's
a great morass, a flowing sea.

912
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:13,191
and that was definitely-- it's
a great morass, a flowing sea.

913
00:28:13,258 --> 00:28:16,061
I think that ancient history
is very good for people

914
00:28:16,127 --> 00:28:18,000
because it's got so
much uncertainty in it.

915
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:19,764
because it's got so
much uncertainty in it.

916
00:28:19,831 --> 00:28:24,000
But why is it good that there's
a lot of misinformation?

917
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:24,536
But why is it good that there's
a lot of misinformation?

918
00:28:24,602 --> 00:28:26,771
It's good because
the world we live in

919
00:28:26,838 --> 00:28:30,000
is full of misinformation, as
we have learned spectacularly

920
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:30,775
is full of misinformation, as
we have learned spectacularly

921
00:28:30,842 --> 00:28:32,410
in recent years.

922
00:28:32,477 --> 00:28:34,412
People invent truths.

923
00:28:34,479 --> 00:28:36,000
You have to be skeptical.

924
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:36,247
You have to be skeptical.

925
00:28:36,314 --> 00:28:38,616
As we prepare to leave
the Nymphaeum Museum,

926
00:28:38,683 --> 00:28:41,152
we couldn't help thinking
about how time tramples

927
00:28:41,219 --> 00:28:42,000
even the mightiest of empires,
turning lavish gardens

928
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,522
even the mightiest of empires,
turning lavish gardens

929
00:28:44,589 --> 00:28:46,658
into underground parking lots.

930
00:28:46,724 --> 00:28:48,000
What do you think Caligula
would think of what's

931
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:48,693
What do you think Caligula
would think of what's

932
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:49,694
happened to his gardens?

933
00:28:49,761 --> 00:28:51,963
[LAUGHS]

934
00:28:52,030 --> 00:28:54,000
(INTERPRETED) I think he'd
be in total disagreement,

935
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:54,365
(INTERPRETED) I think he'd
be in total disagreement,

936
00:28:54,432 --> 00:28:56,935
and I don't think
he'd be very happy

937
00:28:57,001 --> 00:28:58,536
that we're sitting
on his staircase.

938
00:28:58,603 --> 00:29:00,000
[BOTH LAUGH]

939
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:00,371
[BOTH LAUGH]

940
00:29:00,438 --> 00:29:04,375
[CLOCK TICKING]

941
00:29:04,442 --> 00:29:06,000
How did a mosaic
from Caligula's reign

942
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:07,112
How did a mosaic
from Caligula's reign

943
00:29:07,178 --> 00:29:10,849
turn up as a coffee table in
a New York City apartment?

944
00:29:10,915 --> 00:29:12,000
That story at
60minutesovertime.com.

945
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:13,618
That story at
60minutesovertime.com.

946
00:29:17,922 --> 00:29:18,000
[CLOCK TICKING]

947
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,127
[CLOCK TICKING]

948
00:29:22,193 --> 00:29:24,000
Mozambique's Gorongosa National
Park was the envy of Africa.

949
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,564
Mozambique's Gorongosa National
Park was the envy of Africa.

950
00:29:26,631 --> 00:29:29,334
Wildlife drew tourists
from around the world.

951
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:30,000
But beginning in the 1960s, a
man-made catastrophe slaughtered

952
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,071
But beginning in the 1960s, a
man-made catastrophe slaughtered

953
00:29:33,138 --> 00:29:35,940
the animals until, it was
said, there was nothing left

954
00:29:36,007 --> 00:29:37,976
but mosquitoes and landmines.

955
00:29:38,042 --> 00:29:41,079
In 2008, we followed an
American entrepreneur

956
00:29:41,146 --> 00:29:42,000
who dreamed of returning
a wasteland to greatness.

957
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,349
who dreamed of returning
a wasteland to greatness.

958
00:29:44,415 --> 00:29:47,552
And now Greg Carr has
something to show the world.

959
00:29:47,619 --> 00:29:48,000
As Scott Pelley reported
in December 2022,

960
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,588
As Scott Pelley reported
in December 2022,

961
00:29:50,655 --> 00:29:53,458
60 Minutes couldn't resist
a return to Gorongosa

962
00:29:53,525 --> 00:29:54,000
when Carr sends out
invitations like this.

963
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,361
when Carr sends out
invitations like this.

964
00:29:58,963 --> 00:30:00,000
Just come and sit at a sunset
by the lake in the center

965
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,669
Just come and sit at a sunset
by the lake in the center

966
00:30:04,736 --> 00:30:06,000
of this national park.

967
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:07,205
of this national park.

968
00:30:07,272 --> 00:30:08,072
Time stops.

969
00:30:10,909 --> 00:30:12,000
And you get a hundred colors
of yellow and hundreds

970
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,579
And you get a hundred colors
of yellow and hundreds

971
00:30:14,646 --> 00:30:18,000
colors of orange, and
then the dusk sets in.

972
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:18,917
colors of orange, and
then the dusk sets in.

973
00:30:18,983 --> 00:30:21,786
And then a flock of
birds go over the water,

974
00:30:21,853 --> 00:30:23,922
and there's a hippo over
there, making a noise.

975
00:30:23,988 --> 00:30:24,000
[HIPPO GROANS]

976
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,356
[HIPPO GROANS]

977
00:30:25,423 --> 00:30:27,392
And there's an
impala over there.

978
00:30:27,458 --> 00:30:30,000
And it's like, well,
I could have been here

979
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:30,328
And it's like, well,
I could have been here

980
00:30:30,395 --> 00:30:32,997
a hundred thousand years ago,
and it might have been the same.

981
00:30:35,767 --> 00:30:36,000
Greg Carr's wonder is
almost like disbelief.

982
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,837
Greg Carr's wonder is
almost like disbelief.

983
00:30:39,904 --> 00:30:42,000
A million acres
of Africa reborn.

984
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:43,641
A million acres
of Africa reborn.

985
00:30:43,708 --> 00:30:47,178
When I first came
here in 2004, I

986
00:30:47,245 --> 00:30:48,000
could drive around with my
Mozambican friends all day long,

987
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,481
could drive around with my
Mozambican friends all day long,

988
00:30:50,548 --> 00:30:53,284
and if we were lucky,
maybe we'd see one baboon

989
00:30:53,351 --> 00:30:54,000
or one warthog or something.

990
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:55,954
or one warthog or something.

991
00:30:56,020 --> 00:31:00,000
Now we drive around, and
it's an ocean of wildlife.

992
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,059
Now we drive around, and
it's an ocean of wildlife.

993
00:31:01,125 --> 00:31:04,062
Come around the corner,
there's a herd of elephants.

994
00:31:04,128 --> 00:31:06,000
Go the other direction,
there's some lion cubs.

995
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:07,765
Go the other direction,
there's some lion cubs.

996
00:31:07,832 --> 00:31:09,334
10,000 waterbuck.

997
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:10,868
And I say to myself,
you know what?

998
00:31:10,935 --> 00:31:12,000
Nature can rebound.

999
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:12,937
Nature can rebound.

1000
00:31:13,004 --> 00:31:15,974
The rebound is in
southeast Africa,

1001
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,000
near the center of Mozambique.

1002
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:18,509
near the center of Mozambique.

1003
00:31:18,576 --> 00:31:23,014
Here, 28 years of war from
the '60s to the '90s killed

1004
00:31:23,081 --> 00:31:24,000
an estimated 1 million
people and wiped out 95%

1005
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,919
an estimated 1 million
people and wiped out 95%

1006
00:31:27,986 --> 00:31:30,000
of the wildlife in Gorongosa
for food and profit.

1007
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,589
of the wildlife in Gorongosa
for food and profit.

1008
00:31:31,656 --> 00:31:36,000
As the war raged in the
1980s, Greg Carr was a tech

1009
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:36,094
As the war raged in the
1980s, Greg Carr was a tech

1010
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,732
entrepreneur who'd made a
fortune perfecting voicemail.

1011
00:31:40,798 --> 00:31:42,000
He quit business to devote
himself to human rights,

1012
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,569
He quit business to devote
himself to human rights,

1013
00:31:44,636 --> 00:31:48,000
and in 2004, he met Mozambique's
president, Joaquim Chissano,

1014
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:49,741
and in 2004, he met Mozambique's
president, Joaquim Chissano,

1015
00:31:49,807 --> 00:31:52,277
who made a wild pitch.

1016
00:31:52,343 --> 00:31:54,000
And he said, look, please come
to Mozambique and help us.

1017
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:55,513
And he said, look, please come
to Mozambique and help us.

1018
00:31:55,580 --> 00:31:58,449
We want to restore
our national park.

1019
00:31:58,516 --> 00:32:00,000
When we flew over this,
I said, this is it.

1020
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,986
When we flew over this,
I said, this is it.

1021
00:32:02,053 --> 00:32:06,000
When we met Carr in 2008, his
nonprofit foundation had signed

1022
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:06,891
When we met Carr in 2008, his
nonprofit foundation had signed

1023
00:32:06,958 --> 00:32:09,661
a 20-year contract
with Mozambique.

1024
00:32:09,727 --> 00:32:12,000
His plan was to import
animals from all over Africa.

1025
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,500
His plan was to import
animals from all over Africa.

1026
00:32:15,566 --> 00:32:18,000
Well, step one, we had to remove
20,000 traps and wire snares

1027
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,740
Well, step one, we had to remove
20,000 traps and wire snares

1028
00:32:22,807 --> 00:32:24,000
that were left in this park,
left over from the war,

1029
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,911
that were left in this park,
left over from the war,

1030
00:32:26,978 --> 00:32:27,945
get rid of all those.

1031
00:32:28,012 --> 00:32:30,000
Because when I
first came here, we

1032
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:30,081
Because when I
first came here, we

1033
00:32:30,148 --> 00:32:32,183
think we had five
or six lions, maybe.

1034
00:32:32,250 --> 00:32:33,251
In a million acres?

1035
00:32:33,318 --> 00:32:34,218
In a million acres.

1036
00:32:34,285 --> 00:32:36,000
And the lions that we
did have, most of them

1037
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:36,754
And the lions that we
did have, most of them

1038
00:32:36,821 --> 00:32:40,658
had three legs because they had
stepped in a trap or something.

1039
00:32:40,725 --> 00:32:42,000
And then second,
some of the species

1040
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:42,727
And then second,
some of the species

1041
00:32:42,794 --> 00:32:44,529
were just gone completely.

1042
00:32:44,595 --> 00:32:46,531
So we went on a process.

1043
00:32:46,597 --> 00:32:48,000
First, bring in the herbivores.

1044
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:48,199
First, bring in the herbivores.

1045
00:32:48,266 --> 00:32:50,134
So we bring in 200 buffalo.

1046
00:32:50,201 --> 00:32:51,769
We bring in 200 wildebeest.

1047
00:32:51,836 --> 00:32:53,204
We bring in some zebra.

1048
00:32:53,271 --> 00:32:54,000
And then when you got
enough herbivores.

1049
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:54,872
And then when you got
enough herbivores.

1050
00:32:54,939 --> 00:32:56,774
Then you're going to
want the carnivores back.

1051
00:32:56,841 --> 00:32:58,209
So we reintroduced leopards.

1052
00:32:58,276 --> 00:32:59,844
We reintroduced hyenas.

1053
00:32:59,911 --> 00:33:00,000
The lions, all by themselves,
their numbers just took off.

1054
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,981
The lions, all by themselves,
their numbers just took off.

1055
00:33:04,048 --> 00:33:06,000
So from five or six
lions when we started,

1056
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:06,784
So from five or six
lions when we started,

1057
00:33:06,851 --> 00:33:09,320
we now have probably 200.

1058
00:33:09,387 --> 00:33:12,000
Gorongosa's lion conservation
is urgent because since 1950,

1059
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,992
Gorongosa's lion conservation
is urgent because since 1950,

1060
00:33:15,059 --> 00:33:18,000
Africa's lion population has
fallen from half a million

1061
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:19,831
Africa's lion population has
fallen from half a million

1062
00:33:19,897 --> 00:33:24,000
to 20,000 due to habitat
loss and hunting.

1063
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:24,435
to 20,000 due to habitat
loss and hunting.

1064
00:33:24,502 --> 00:33:27,839
We saw how Gorongosa
is protecting its lions

1065
00:33:27,905 --> 00:33:30,000
on a mission with park
veterinarian Antonio Paolo.

1066
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,009
on a mission with park
veterinarian Antonio Paolo.

1067
00:33:32,076 --> 00:33:33,678
OK, I will shoot now.

1068
00:33:33,745 --> 00:33:36,000
Paolo fired a
tranquilizer dart--

1069
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,615
Paolo fired a
tranquilizer dart--

1070
00:33:37,682 --> 00:33:38,850
Right on target.

1071
00:33:38,916 --> 00:33:42,000
--and a 300-pound lioness
led us on a chase.

1072
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:43,087
--and a 300-pound lioness
led us on a chase.

1073
00:33:43,154 --> 00:33:43,788
Reverse.

1074
00:33:43,855 --> 00:33:44,355
Give space.

1075
00:33:44,422 --> 00:33:45,156
Turn around.

1076
00:33:45,223 --> 00:33:45,957
Turn around.

1077
00:33:46,023 --> 00:33:48,000
She left us behind, but she
couldn't outrun the sedative.

1078
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,294
She left us behind, but she
couldn't outrun the sedative.

1079
00:33:50,361 --> 00:33:51,028
There she is.

1080
00:33:51,095 --> 00:33:54,000
Yeah, she's there, sleeping.

1081
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:54,132
Yeah, she's there, sleeping.

1082
00:33:54,198 --> 00:33:58,803
She'd be out about an hour, as
Dr. Paolo changed her failing

1083
00:33:58,870 --> 00:34:00,000
GPS collar.

1084
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:00,638
GPS collar.

1085
00:34:00,705 --> 00:34:02,974
The signal goes to
headquarters, where they

1086
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,000
track the prides and herds.

1087
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:06,144
track the prides and herds.

1088
00:34:06,210 --> 00:34:09,213
A bit of ear was nicked
for genetic tests.

1089
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,000
And then there was a surprise.

1090
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:12,483
And then there was a surprise.

1091
00:34:12,550 --> 00:34:13,651
You think she's pregnant?

1092
00:34:13,718 --> 00:34:14,152
Yeah.

1093
00:34:14,218 --> 00:34:15,253
She's look like pregnant.

1094
00:34:15,319 --> 00:34:17,355
And there is the
future of the park.

1095
00:34:17,422 --> 00:34:18,000
Yes, the future
cubs of the park.

1096
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,659
Yes, the future
cubs of the park.

1097
00:34:21,726 --> 00:34:24,000
Later, she awoke and headed
out, with her future cub.

1098
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,798
Later, she awoke and headed
out, with her future cub.

1099
00:34:26,864 --> 00:34:30,000
I never imagined it would
go so well or so fast.

1100
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:30,268
I never imagined it would
go so well or so fast.

1101
00:34:30,334 --> 00:34:35,706
In 2018, we did
an aerial survey.

1102
00:34:35,773 --> 00:34:36,000
So counting only
the big animals.

1103
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,110
So counting only
the big animals.

1104
00:34:39,177 --> 00:34:42,000
We counted 100,000 large
animals from the air.

1105
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,715
We counted 100,000 large
animals from the air.

1106
00:34:44,782 --> 00:34:48,000
Thrilled as he is, it wasn't
wildlife that drew this

1107
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,554
Thrilled as he is, it wasn't
wildlife that drew this

1108
00:34:49,620 --> 00:34:53,624
63-year-old Idaho
native to Africa.

1109
00:34:53,691 --> 00:34:54,000
In 2008, he introduced us to
the 200,000 people living around

1110
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:59,730
In 2008, he introduced us to
the 200,000 people living around

1111
00:34:59,797 --> 00:35:00,000
the park, survivors of the
wars, living on $1 a day.

1112
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:05,736
the park, survivors of the
wars, living on $1 a day.

1113
00:35:05,803 --> 00:35:06,000
People had nothing.

1114
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:06,737
People had nothing.

1115
00:35:06,804 --> 00:35:07,805
They didn't have clothes.

1116
00:35:07,872 --> 00:35:09,640
They were wearing rags, or
they had made clothes out

1117
00:35:09,707 --> 00:35:10,508
of tree bark.

1118
00:35:10,575 --> 00:35:12,000
They were eating insects
and trying to catch mice.

1119
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:13,211
They were eating insects
and trying to catch mice.

1120
00:35:13,277 --> 00:35:15,246
And that's when it struck me.

1121
00:35:15,313 --> 00:35:18,000
Well, this national park's going
to have to help the people.

1122
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,083
Well, this national park's going
to have to help the people.

1123
00:35:19,150 --> 00:35:24,000
Today, Gorongosa National
Park employs 1,600 workers.

1124
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:24,188
Today, Gorongosa National
Park employs 1,600 workers.

1125
00:35:24,255 --> 00:35:27,592
Tourism brings in cash,
which goes to the people

1126
00:35:27,658 --> 00:35:28,926
and to the park.

1127
00:35:28,993 --> 00:35:30,000
[NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

1128
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:30,962
[NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

1129
00:35:31,028 --> 00:35:34,699
And Greg Carr has partnered with
the government on health care

1130
00:35:34,765 --> 00:35:36,000
and education.

1131
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:36,934
and education.

1132
00:35:37,001 --> 00:35:40,304
Carr is the biggest
donor, but US foreign aid

1133
00:35:40,371 --> 00:35:42,000
kicks in about $6
million a year.

1134
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:43,107
kicks in about $6
million a year.

1135
00:35:43,174 --> 00:35:46,244
We now work in 89
primary schools,

1136
00:35:46,310 --> 00:35:48,000
which is every
single school that

1137
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:48,179
which is every
single school that

1138
00:35:48,246 --> 00:35:49,881
surrounds this national park.

1139
00:35:49,947 --> 00:35:52,583
We are training 600
school teachers right now.

1140
00:35:52,650 --> 00:35:54,000
Now, think about how difficult
it is to create a school system

1141
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,153
Now, think about how difficult
it is to create a school system

1142
00:35:56,220 --> 00:35:58,055
when you don't have
school teachers that

1143
00:35:58,122 --> 00:36:00,000
know how to read and write
because of generations of war.

1144
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,226
know how to read and write
because of generations of war.

1145
00:36:02,293 --> 00:36:05,229
Now, something we really
focused on, as step one,

1146
00:36:05,296 --> 00:36:06,000
was really vulnerable girls.

1147
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:07,265
was really vulnerable girls.

1148
00:36:07,331 --> 00:36:09,467
Now, a lot of times what
happens in the poor families

1149
00:36:09,534 --> 00:36:11,402
around here, a girl
turns 13 or 14,

1150
00:36:11,469 --> 00:36:12,000
and the family says, well, it's
time for her to get married.

1151
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,238
and the family says, well, it's
time for her to get married.

1152
00:36:14,305 --> 00:36:16,040
Now, it may not be what
they actually want,

1153
00:36:16,107 --> 00:36:17,942
but they don't think
there's another choice.

1154
00:36:18,009 --> 00:36:20,011
And this is what happens, and
know, she marries a farmer.

1155
00:36:20,077 --> 00:36:20,811
And that's it.

1156
00:36:20,878 --> 00:36:22,346
[NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

1157
00:36:22,413 --> 00:36:24,000
So we started something
called the Girls Club.

1158
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:24,549
So we started something
called the Girls Club.

1159
00:36:24,615 --> 00:36:27,652
[NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

1160
00:36:27,718 --> 00:36:30,000
There are 3,000 girls in
92 after-school clubs.

1161
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,823
There are 3,000 girls in
92 after-school clubs.

1162
00:36:32,890 --> 00:36:36,000
The program is led
by Larissa Sousa.

1163
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:36,794
The program is led
by Larissa Sousa.

1164
00:36:36,861 --> 00:36:40,431
Why is this the job of
a conservation park?

1165
00:36:40,498 --> 00:36:41,799
Why not?

1166
00:36:41,866 --> 00:36:42,000
It should be the
job for everyone.

1167
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,902
It should be the
job for everyone.

1168
00:36:44,969 --> 00:36:45,736
For everyone.

1169
00:36:45,803 --> 00:36:48,000
Education is for everyone.

1170
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:48,172
Education is for everyone.

1171
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,409
The clubs provide the
resources to get the girls

1172
00:36:51,475 --> 00:36:54,000
into high school, and it
gives students an answer

1173
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:55,446
into high school, and it
gives students an answer

1174
00:36:55,513 --> 00:36:58,849
to our question which,
five years ago, wouldn't

1175
00:36:58,916 --> 00:37:00,000
have made sense.

1176
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:00,451
have made sense.

1177
00:37:00,518 --> 00:37:02,286
What do you want to be?

1178
00:37:02,353 --> 00:37:03,955
[NON-ENGLISH]

1179
00:37:04,021 --> 00:37:06,000
We have a teacher, a nurse,
a conservation park ranger,

1180
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,192
We have a teacher, a nurse,
a conservation park ranger,

1181
00:37:08,259 --> 00:37:09,527
and another nurse.

1182
00:37:09,594 --> 00:37:10,628
Another nurse, yes.

1183
00:37:10,695 --> 00:37:12,000
When we started
the program, they

1184
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:12,763
When we started
the program, they

1185
00:37:12,830 --> 00:37:15,099
didn't know that
they had this choice.

1186
00:37:15,166 --> 00:37:16,033
And now they do.

1187
00:37:16,100 --> 00:37:16,767
Now they do.

1188
00:37:16,834 --> 00:37:17,902
[APPLAUSE]

1189
00:37:17,969 --> 00:37:18,000
This land belongs
to these people.

1190
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,770
This land belongs
to these people.

1191
00:37:19,837 --> 00:37:20,972
They've been here forever.

1192
00:37:21,038 --> 00:37:21,806
It's their animals.

1193
00:37:21,872 --> 00:37:22,473
It's their land.

1194
00:37:22,540 --> 00:37:23,207
It's their trees.

1195
00:37:23,274 --> 00:37:24,000
It's their cultural
and spiritual heritage.

1196
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,744
It's their cultural
and spiritual heritage.

1197
00:37:26,811 --> 00:37:27,278
Right?

1198
00:37:27,345 --> 00:37:30,000
It's an idea that came from
my hero, Nelson Mandela.

1199
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:30,748
It's an idea that came from
my hero, Nelson Mandela.

1200
00:37:30,815 --> 00:37:34,318
And the idea was to create
a human rights park.

1201
00:37:34,385 --> 00:37:36,000
What does that mean?

1202
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:37,021
What does that mean?

1203
00:37:37,088 --> 00:37:39,256
A park that cares
about the people.

1204
00:37:39,323 --> 00:37:40,891
A park that belongs
to the people.

1205
00:37:40,958 --> 00:37:42,000
So instead of a park
turning its back

1206
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:42,426
So instead of a park
turning its back

1207
00:37:42,493 --> 00:37:44,895
on the people, a park opening
itself to the people and say,

1208
00:37:44,962 --> 00:37:45,696
this is your park.

1209
00:37:45,763 --> 00:37:46,664
These are your animals.

1210
00:37:46,731 --> 00:37:47,965
These are your opportunities.

1211
00:37:48,032 --> 00:37:51,002
[NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

1212
00:37:53,404 --> 00:37:54,000
We saw those opportunities
on Mount Gorongosa,

1213
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,507
We saw those opportunities
on Mount Gorongosa,

1214
00:37:56,574 --> 00:37:59,944
which was stripped of
trees during the wars.

1215
00:38:00,011 --> 00:38:02,947
Here, Carr's
nonprofit foundation

1216
00:38:03,014 --> 00:38:05,082
is giving away coffee trees.

1217
00:38:05,149 --> 00:38:06,000
868 family farmers working for
themselves are earning far more

1218
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:11,622
868 family farmers working for
themselves are earning far more

1219
00:38:11,689 --> 00:38:12,000
than ever, so they can't
plant trees fast enough,

1220
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,426
than ever, so they can't
plant trees fast enough,

1221
00:38:15,493 --> 00:38:18,000
which reforests the mountain.

1222
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:19,196
which reforests the mountain.

1223
00:38:19,263 --> 00:38:23,034
Carr's foundation buys the
beans at above the market rate

1224
00:38:23,100 --> 00:38:24,000
and built the farmers
a roasting plant.

1225
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,204
and built the farmers
a roasting plant.

1226
00:38:27,271 --> 00:38:29,473
[NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

1227
00:38:29,540 --> 00:38:30,000
There's no better example
of Carr's model for lifting

1228
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,177
There's no better example
of Carr's model for lifting

1229
00:38:33,244 --> 00:38:35,646
people and healing the wild.

1230
00:38:35,713 --> 00:38:36,000
It's working.

1231
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:36,914
It's working.

1232
00:38:36,981 --> 00:38:41,919
But the last 14 years haven't
been sweet music alone.

1233
00:38:41,986 --> 00:38:42,000
Since we were here in 2008--

1234
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:43,788
Since we were here in 2008--

1235
00:38:43,854 --> 00:38:44,588
Yes.

1236
00:38:44,655 --> 00:38:48,000
--there have been enormous
roadblocks to this project.

1237
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:48,459
--there have been enormous
roadblocks to this project.

1238
00:38:48,526 --> 00:38:49,093
That's right.

1239
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:50,928
If I had known then
what was going to come--

1240
00:38:50,995 --> 00:38:52,463
[LAUGHS]

1241
00:38:52,530 --> 00:38:54,000
What came was another
civil war, in 2013.

1242
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,234
What came was another
civil war, in 2013.

1243
00:38:57,301 --> 00:39:00,000
And then in 2019, a cyclone
leveled 100,000 homes.

1244
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,941
And then in 2019, a cyclone
leveled 100,000 homes.

1245
00:39:04,008 --> 00:39:06,000
OK, there was the six years
of war and then the cyclone.

1246
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,679
OK, there was the six years
of war and then the cyclone.

1247
00:39:08,746 --> 00:39:12,000
When cyclone Idai hit, basically
every one of our employees

1248
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:13,284
When cyclone Idai hit, basically
every one of our employees

1249
00:39:13,350 --> 00:39:15,052
became a first responder.

1250
00:39:15,119 --> 00:39:18,000
So in other words-- oh, there's
an elephant right there.

1251
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:18,556
So in other words-- oh, there's
an elephant right there.

1252
00:39:18,622 --> 00:39:20,324
Is there?

1253
00:39:20,391 --> 00:39:21,358
Well, there certainly is.

1254
00:39:21,425 --> 00:39:24,000
I just have to stop and
say hello to the elephant.

1255
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:24,161
I just have to stop and
say hello to the elephant.

1256
00:39:24,228 --> 00:39:27,732
We couldn't find the
wildlife in 2008.

1257
00:39:27,798 --> 00:39:29,500
And now they're
interrupting our interview.

1258
00:39:29,567 --> 00:39:30,000
And now they're walking
in on the interview.

1259
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,303
And now they're walking
in on the interview.

1260
00:39:32,369 --> 00:39:34,205
[BOTH LAUGH]

1261
00:39:35,506 --> 00:39:36,000
Was there ever a
time that you thought

1262
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:37,541
Was there ever a
time that you thought

1263
00:39:37,608 --> 00:39:40,644
to yourself, I did my
best, but this just isn't

1264
00:39:40,711 --> 00:39:41,879
going to be humanly possible?

1265
00:39:41,946 --> 00:39:42,000
Not for a second.

1266
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:43,547
Not for a second.

1267
00:39:43,614 --> 00:39:45,216
Not for one second.

1268
00:39:45,282 --> 00:39:48,000
With the cyclones, with the
return of the civil war--

1269
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:48,986
With the cyclones, with the
return of the civil war--

1270
00:39:49,053 --> 00:39:52,790
I just think every time
something like that happens,

1271
00:39:52,857 --> 00:39:54,000
it just makes you more
determined, not less determined.

1272
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,293
it just makes you more
determined, not less determined.

1273
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,095
And when you've got
people suffering

1274
00:39:58,162 --> 00:40:00,000
in a war that need help or
people suffering in a cyclone

1275
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:00,564
in a war that need help or
people suffering in a cyclone

1276
00:40:00,631 --> 00:40:02,867
need help, you're
more committed.

1277
00:40:02,933 --> 00:40:05,936
You don't lose commitment
at a time like that.

1278
00:40:06,003 --> 00:40:08,506
[NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

1279
00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:12,000
We saw commitment in the
rangers who protect the park.

1280
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,010
We saw commitment in the
rangers who protect the park.

1281
00:40:17,314 --> 00:40:18,000
"For the flora and
the fauna," they sing,

1282
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,184
"For the flora and
the fauna," they sing,

1283
00:40:20,251 --> 00:40:22,720
"we will die for our park."

1284
00:40:26,824 --> 00:40:29,860
Part of what they protect
are endangered species,

1285
00:40:29,927 --> 00:40:30,000
including this mammal with a
bottomless taste for termites.

1286
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:34,865
including this mammal with a
bottomless taste for termites.

1287
00:40:34,932 --> 00:40:36,000
Pangolins are hunted
for their scales, which

1288
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:37,768
Pangolins are hunted
for their scales, which

1289
00:40:37,835 --> 00:40:40,037
are prized in folk medicine.

1290
00:40:40,104 --> 00:40:42,000
Veterinarian Mercia
Angela told us

1291
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:42,706
Veterinarian Mercia
Angela told us

1292
00:40:42,773 --> 00:40:46,477
that pangolins ride on
their mother's backs.

1293
00:40:46,544 --> 00:40:47,411
Hello there.

1294
00:40:47,478 --> 00:40:48,000
But we found any back will do.

1295
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,614
But we found any back will do.

1296
00:40:50,681 --> 00:40:51,282
That's funny.

1297
00:40:51,348 --> 00:40:53,617
He just naturally goes
right up to the shoulder

1298
00:40:53,684 --> 00:40:54,000
and hangs on your back.

1299
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:54,985
and hangs on your back.

1300
00:40:55,052 --> 00:40:55,920
Yeah.

1301
00:40:55,986 --> 00:40:57,454
Powerful tail.

1302
00:40:57,521 --> 00:41:00,000
Yeah, the tail is very powerful.

1303
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:00,157
Yeah, the tail is very powerful.

1304
00:41:00,224 --> 00:41:04,562
They also use for protection.

1305
00:41:04,628 --> 00:41:06,000
I'm surprised they're so docile.

1306
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:06,730
I'm surprised they're so docile.

1307
00:41:06,797 --> 00:41:08,232
This is a wild animal.

1308
00:41:08,299 --> 00:41:10,434
Yes, it's a wild animal.

1309
00:41:10,501 --> 00:41:11,602
Success, eh?

1310
00:41:11,669 --> 00:41:12,000
But for us, the most
interesting animal in the park--

1311
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,406
But for us, the most
interesting animal in the park--

1312
00:41:15,472 --> 00:41:16,740
[NON-ENGLISH]

1313
00:41:16,807 --> 00:41:18,000
[NON-ENGLISH]

1314
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:18,342
[NON-ENGLISH]

1315
00:41:18,409 --> 00:41:23,314
--is Greg Carr, an entrepreneur
with the empathy to see,

1316
00:41:23,380 --> 00:41:24,000
the humility to listen,
and the optimism to act.

1317
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,952
the humility to listen,
and the optimism to act.

1318
00:41:28,018 --> 00:41:30,000
His business model is
creating a new ecosystem

1319
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:31,589
His business model is
creating a new ecosystem

1320
00:41:31,655 --> 00:41:35,559
where animals that were
hunted are suddenly worth

1321
00:41:35,626 --> 00:41:36,000
much more alive.

1322
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,262
much more alive.

1323
00:41:38,329 --> 00:41:41,232
How much of your personal
fortune have you put into this?

1324
00:41:41,298 --> 00:41:42,000
Well, I'd like to
keep that a secret,

1325
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:43,834
Well, I'd like to
keep that a secret,

1326
00:41:43,901 --> 00:41:48,000
but, unfortunately, I think
you could probably do the math

1327
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:48,239
but, unfortunately, I think
you could probably do the math

1328
00:41:48,305 --> 00:41:49,306
and figure it out.

1329
00:41:49,373 --> 00:41:52,042
It's more than a
hundred million dollars.

1330
00:41:52,109 --> 00:41:54,000
My message to anybody
with money is,

1331
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:55,446
My message to anybody
with money is,

1332
00:41:55,512 --> 00:41:57,781
what are you going to do,
stick it all in your casket?

1333
00:41:57,848 --> 00:42:00,000
Why not enjoy the
joy of philanthropy?

1334
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:01,151
Why not enjoy the
joy of philanthropy?

1335
00:42:01,218 --> 00:42:02,786
[BIRDS SQUAWKING]

1336
00:42:02,853 --> 00:42:04,889
I would say to the
billionaire next door,

1337
00:42:04,955 --> 00:42:06,000
go out and enjoy spending your
money to help some people.

1338
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,593
go out and enjoy spending your
money to help some people.

1339
00:42:09,660 --> 00:42:11,095
Find your Gorongosa.

1340
00:42:11,161 --> 00:42:12,000
[LAUGHS] Find your Gorongosa.

1341
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:13,998
[LAUGHS] Find your Gorongosa.

1342
00:42:14,064 --> 00:42:18,000
And it will bless you more than
you can possibly ever bless it.

1343
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,371
And it will bless you more than
you can possibly ever bless it.

1344
00:42:20,437 --> 00:42:23,807
[CLOCK TICKING]

1345
00:42:27,645 --> 00:42:28,812
I'm Jon Wertheim.

1346
00:42:28,879 --> 00:42:29,914
Thanks for joining us.

1347
00:42:29,980 --> 00:42:30,000
We'll be back next week with
another edition of 60 Minutes.

1348
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,918
We'll be back next week with
another edition of 60 Minutes.

1349
00:42:36,887 --> 00:42:39,857
[MUSIC PLAYING]

1350
00:42:47,264 --> 00:42:48,000
So when you see all that
green, what do you think?

1351
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,533
So when you see all that
green, what do you think?

1352
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:51,468
I see money leaving America.

1353
00:42:51,535 --> 00:42:53,203
Is this a battle of
rich versus poor?

1354
00:42:53,270 --> 00:42:53,938
In part, it is.

1355
00:42:54,004 --> 00:42:54,872
Black versus white?

1356
00:42:54,939 --> 00:42:55,839
In part, it is.

1357
00:42:55,906 --> 00:42:57,942
If you're not willing to
protect a place like this,

1358
00:42:58,008 --> 00:42:59,543
then what are you
willing to protect?

1359
00:43:03,047 --> 00:43:03,714
1, 2, 3--

1360
00:43:03,781 --> 00:43:04,315
Go!

1361
00:43:04,381 --> 00:43:06,000
I want a strong America.

1362
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:06,250
I want a strong America.

1363
00:43:06,317 --> 00:43:09,019
I want a proud America.