1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,369 [TICKING] 2 00:00:07,574 --> 00:00:10,677 Getting into China is all but impossible for most 3 00:00:10,744 --> 00:00:12,000 Western journalists. 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:12,011 Western journalists. 5 00:00:12,078 --> 00:00:15,348 This is the financial and economic capital of China. 6 00:00:15,415 --> 00:00:18,000 But when the US ambassador, Nicholas Burns, 7 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:18,118 But when the US ambassador, Nicholas Burns, 8 00:00:18,184 --> 00:00:21,221 invited us to come for a visit and an interview, 9 00:00:21,287 --> 00:00:23,223 we were granted visas. 10 00:00:23,289 --> 00:00:24,000 Is it our most competitive relationship 11 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,559 Is it our most competitive relationship 12 00:00:26,626 --> 00:00:28,061 in the world right now? 13 00:00:28,128 --> 00:00:30,000 This is the most important, most competitive, and most dangerous 14 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,532 This is the most important, most competitive, and most dangerous 15 00:00:32,599 --> 00:00:34,267 relationship that the United States has in 16 00:00:34,334 --> 00:00:36,000 the world right now and will, I think, for the next decade 17 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:37,137 the world right now and will, I think, for the next decade 18 00:00:37,203 --> 00:00:37,904 or so. 19 00:00:37,971 --> 00:00:40,140 [TICKING] 20 00:00:40,206 --> 00:00:42,000 What happens if Vladimir Putin enters another country 21 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:43,676 What happens if Vladimir Putin enters another country 22 00:00:43,743 --> 00:00:45,945 besides Ukraine by force? 23 00:00:46,012 --> 00:00:47,414 He already has. 24 00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:48,000 15 years ago, Russia invaded neighboring Georgia. 25 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,984 15 years ago, Russia invaded neighboring Georgia. 26 00:00:51,050 --> 00:00:54,000 It has military stationed there and controls 20% of the country. 27 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:55,622 It has military stationed there and controls 20% of the country. 28 00:00:55,688 --> 00:00:56,890 What's next? 29 00:00:56,956 --> 00:00:59,192 The Russians are buying apartments here 30 00:00:59,259 --> 00:01:00,000 in every 33 minutes, and they're registering 31 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:01,828 in every 33 minutes, and they're registering 32 00:01:01,895 --> 00:01:04,697 a business in every 26 minutes. 33 00:01:04,764 --> 00:01:06,000 So we are on the brink of a very dangerous situation 34 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,501 So we are on the brink of a very dangerous situation 35 00:01:08,568 --> 00:01:09,402 here in Georgia. 36 00:01:09,469 --> 00:01:11,171 [TICKING] 37 00:01:11,237 --> 00:01:12,000 I'm Lesley Stahl. 38 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:12,739 I'm Lesley Stahl. 39 00:01:12,806 --> 00:01:14,107 I'm Bill Whitaker. 40 00:01:14,174 --> 00:01:15,341 I'm Anderson Cooper. 41 00:01:15,408 --> 00:01:16,676 I'm Sharyn Alfonsi. 42 00:01:16,743 --> 00:01:17,944 I'm Jon Wertheim. 43 00:01:18,011 --> 00:01:19,245 I'm Cecilia Vega. 44 00:01:19,312 --> 00:01:20,580 I'm Scott Pelley. 45 00:01:20,647 --> 00:01:24,000 Those stories tonight on 60 Minutes. 46 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:24,017 Those stories tonight on 60 Minutes. 47 00:01:24,083 --> 00:01:26,019 [TICKING] 48 00:01:31,825 --> 00:01:35,562 American CEOs used to swoon over China. 49 00:01:35,628 --> 00:01:36,000 Its vast pool of consumers has been 50 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,598 Its vast pool of consumers has been 51 00:01:38,665 --> 00:01:41,034 a magnetic draw for decades. 52 00:01:41,100 --> 00:01:42,000 But doing business there has become so fraught and risky, 53 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,538 But doing business there has become so fraught and risky, 54 00:01:45,605 --> 00:01:48,000 with intellectual property theft and an expanded espionage law 55 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,443 with intellectual property theft and an expanded espionage law 56 00:01:50,510 --> 00:01:53,513 used to intimidate the business community, 57 00:01:53,580 --> 00:01:54,000 that US companies have pressed the pause button. 58 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,484 that US companies have pressed the pause button. 59 00:01:57,550 --> 00:02:00,000 On top of that, the US-China relationship 60 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:00,720 On top of that, the US-China relationship 61 00:02:00,787 --> 00:02:03,523 has become contentious due partly 62 00:02:03,590 --> 00:02:06,000 to China's belligerent activity toward Taiwan 63 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:06,826 to China's belligerent activity toward Taiwan 64 00:02:06,893 --> 00:02:11,030 and in the South China Sea, the balloon spy 65 00:02:11,097 --> 00:02:12,000 incident of last year, and the list goes on. 66 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,567 incident of last year, and the list goes on. 67 00:02:14,634 --> 00:02:18,000 Making matters worse, the Chinese economy has hit a wall. 68 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:19,772 Making matters worse, the Chinese economy has hit a wall. 69 00:02:19,839 --> 00:02:22,242 Export growth is slowing. 70 00:02:22,308 --> 00:02:24,000 The country's drowning in debt, and youth unemployment 71 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,513 The country's drowning in debt, and youth unemployment 72 00:02:26,579 --> 00:02:27,947 has soared. 73 00:02:28,014 --> 00:02:30,000 Getting into China to tell that story 74 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:30,717 Getting into China to tell that story 75 00:02:30,783 --> 00:02:34,621 is all but impossible for most Western journalists. 76 00:02:34,687 --> 00:02:36,000 But as we first reported in February, 77 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:37,090 But as we first reported in February, 78 00:02:37,156 --> 00:02:39,826 when the US ambassador, Nicholas Burns, 79 00:02:39,893 --> 00:02:42,000 invited us to come for a visit and an interview, 80 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:43,530 invited us to come for a visit and an interview, 81 00:02:43,596 --> 00:02:45,698 we were granted visas. 82 00:02:45,765 --> 00:02:48,000 We spoke with him at his residence in Beijing. 83 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:49,869 We spoke with him at his residence in Beijing. 84 00:02:49,936 --> 00:02:54,000 More money is leaving China for the first time in 40 years 85 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:54,507 More money is leaving China for the first time in 40 years 86 00:02:54,574 --> 00:02:58,778 than is coming in from American, Japanese, European, 87 00:02:58,845 --> 00:03:00,000 Korean investors. 88 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:00,046 Korean investors. 89 00:03:00,113 --> 00:03:04,317 Now, why is that and how much of a problem is that for them? 90 00:03:04,384 --> 00:03:06,000 That's a real problem for this economy. 91 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:06,819 That's a real problem for this economy. 92 00:03:06,886 --> 00:03:08,621 They have 1.4 billion people here. 93 00:03:08,688 --> 00:03:11,324 They've got to keep it growing, and foreign capital 94 00:03:11,391 --> 00:03:12,000 is important. 95 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:12,258 is important. 96 00:03:12,325 --> 00:03:14,127 You ask why. 97 00:03:14,193 --> 00:03:15,828 I think there's been a contradiction 98 00:03:15,895 --> 00:03:18,000 in the messaging from the government here in China 99 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:18,831 in the messaging from the government here in China 100 00:03:18,898 --> 00:03:20,033 to the rest of the world. 101 00:03:20,099 --> 00:03:22,735 On the one hand, they say, we're open for business. 102 00:03:22,802 --> 00:03:24,000 We want American, Japanese businesses here. 103 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:25,972 We want American, Japanese businesses here. 104 00:03:26,039 --> 00:03:29,142 But on the other hand, they've raided 105 00:03:29,208 --> 00:03:30,000 six or seven American businesses since last March. 106 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,445 six or seven American businesses since last March. 107 00:03:32,512 --> 00:03:33,046 Raided? 108 00:03:33,112 --> 00:03:33,880 Raided. 109 00:03:33,947 --> 00:03:34,380 You mean-- 110 00:03:34,447 --> 00:03:36,000 They've gone into American companies 111 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:36,316 They've gone into American companies 112 00:03:36,382 --> 00:03:39,719 and shut them down and made accusations we believe 113 00:03:39,786 --> 00:03:41,788 are very much unwarranted. 114 00:03:41,854 --> 00:03:42,000 The American companies include Bain and Company and the Minsk 115 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,926 The American companies include Bain and Company and the Minsk 116 00:03:46,993 --> 00:03:48,000 group, a company that does due diligence for other companies 117 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,964 group, a company that does due diligence for other companies 118 00:03:51,030 --> 00:03:54,000 that might want to invest here was raided last year. 119 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:54,667 that might want to invest here was raided last year. 120 00:03:54,734 --> 00:03:58,538 Five of its Chinese employees were taken into custody, 121 00:03:58,605 --> 00:04:00,000 and they're still there. 122 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:00,540 and they're still there. 123 00:04:00,607 --> 00:04:03,309 Another firm, Cat Vision, was raided. 124 00:04:03,376 --> 00:04:06,000 Lest the message wasn't loud and clear, a report about it 125 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:06,779 Lest the message wasn't loud and clear, a report about it 126 00:04:06,846 --> 00:04:11,117 was put on state-run television. 127 00:04:11,184 --> 00:04:12,000 It accused Western consulting firms 128 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:13,720 It accused Western consulting firms 129 00:04:13,786 --> 00:04:18,000 of espionage and stealing national security and military 130 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:18,024 of espionage and stealing national security and military 131 00:04:18,091 --> 00:04:18,958 secrets. 132 00:04:19,025 --> 00:04:20,860 They want the investment to come back, 133 00:04:20,927 --> 00:04:23,796 and they're raiding American companies, and they're-- 134 00:04:23,863 --> 00:04:24,000 Yes. 135 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:24,297 Yes. 136 00:04:24,364 --> 00:04:27,634 They've passed an amendment to their counter-espionage law. 137 00:04:27,700 --> 00:04:29,802 And it's written in such a general way 138 00:04:29,869 --> 00:04:30,000 that it could be that American businesspeople could be accused 139 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,940 that it could be that American businesspeople could be accused 140 00:04:34,007 --> 00:04:36,000 of espionage for engaging in practices that are perfectly 141 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,811 of espionage for engaging in practices that are perfectly 142 00:04:38,878 --> 00:04:41,514 legal and acceptable everywhere else in the world, 143 00:04:41,581 --> 00:04:42,000 collecting data to do due diligence so that you can decide 144 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,518 collecting data to do due diligence so that you can decide 145 00:04:45,585 --> 00:04:48,000 whether you want to invest in a company or form a joint venture. 146 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:48,588 whether you want to invest in a company or form a joint venture. 147 00:04:48,655 --> 00:04:49,088 Right? 148 00:04:49,155 --> 00:04:51,057 What do you think the Chinese are 149 00:04:51,124 --> 00:04:54,000 afraid that these companies are going to find out, 150 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:54,193 afraid that these companies are going to find out, 151 00:04:54,260 --> 00:04:57,096 these due diligence companies? 152 00:04:57,163 --> 00:04:58,331 What are they worrying about? 153 00:04:58,398 --> 00:05:00,000 I think they want to control data about the Chinese people, 154 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:01,768 I think they want to control data about the Chinese people, 155 00:05:01,834 --> 00:05:03,503 about Chinese companies. 156 00:05:03,569 --> 00:05:05,772 And so that, I think, is at the heart 157 00:05:05,838 --> 00:05:06,000 of the problem with those American companies 158 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:07,774 of the problem with those American companies 159 00:05:07,840 --> 00:05:09,308 operating in that sphere. 160 00:05:09,375 --> 00:05:12,000 Ambassador Burns told us that's just one 161 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:12,045 Ambassador Burns told us that's just one 162 00:05:12,111 --> 00:05:14,047 of the concerns he hears about. 163 00:05:14,113 --> 00:05:16,883 There is still intellectual property theft 164 00:05:16,949 --> 00:05:18,000 from American companies here. 165 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:18,918 from American companies here. 166 00:05:18,985 --> 00:05:21,587 Is every American company afraid of that? 167 00:05:21,654 --> 00:05:22,789 Yes. 168 00:05:22,855 --> 00:05:24,000 All kinds of US companies began flocking to China in the early 169 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,160 All kinds of US companies began flocking to China in the early 170 00:05:27,226 --> 00:05:30,000 1980s after the country opened to the West under then-leader 171 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,131 1980s after the country opened to the West under then-leader 172 00:05:32,198 --> 00:05:33,132 Deng Xiaoping. 173 00:05:33,199 --> 00:05:34,333 [BELL TOLLING] 174 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,000 And now US banks operate here. 175 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,303 And now US banks operate here. 176 00:05:37,370 --> 00:05:41,674 Walmart has nearly 300 stores across the country. 177 00:05:41,741 --> 00:05:42,000 Shoppers here in Shanghai can buy Levi's, browse 178 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:46,412 Shoppers here in Shanghai can buy Levi's, browse 179 00:05:46,479 --> 00:05:48,000 in an Apple store, and get a caramel frappuccino. 180 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,350 in an Apple store, and get a caramel frappuccino. 181 00:05:51,417 --> 00:05:54,000 Starbucks has 6,000 stores in China, 1,000 stores in Shanghai, 182 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,889 Starbucks has 6,000 stores in China, 1,000 stores in Shanghai, 183 00:05:56,956 --> 00:05:59,926 and they want to keep building because coffee-- 184 00:05:59,992 --> 00:06:00,000 this was a tea culture for hundreds of years. 185 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,729 this was a tea culture for hundreds of years. 186 00:06:02,795 --> 00:06:03,229 Right, yeah. 187 00:06:03,296 --> 00:06:05,832 It's now becoming, at least with the young Chinese, a coffee 188 00:06:05,898 --> 00:06:06,000 culture. 189 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:06,966 culture. 190 00:06:07,033 --> 00:06:08,267 And they love Starbucks? 191 00:06:08,334 --> 00:06:09,168 They love Starbucks. 192 00:06:09,235 --> 00:06:11,237 And I'll buy you a cappuccino. 193 00:06:11,304 --> 00:06:12,000 I'll take one. 194 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:12,138 I'll take one. 195 00:06:12,205 --> 00:06:12,805 Thank you. 196 00:06:12,872 --> 00:06:13,306 [LAUGHTER] 197 00:06:13,372 --> 00:06:14,340 Boeing's here. 198 00:06:14,407 --> 00:06:18,000 So is Tesla, Pfizer, Chevron, Intel. 199 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:18,811 So is Tesla, Pfizer, Chevron, Intel. 200 00:06:18,878 --> 00:06:21,481 But while some businesses are thriving, 201 00:06:21,547 --> 00:06:23,349 many of the foreign companies are 202 00:06:23,416 --> 00:06:24,000 worried about the business climate 203 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:25,384 worried about the business climate 204 00:06:25,451 --> 00:06:27,286 under President Xi Jinping. 205 00:06:27,353 --> 00:06:30,000 If you track China from the death of Mao 206 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:30,790 If you track China from the death of Mao 207 00:06:30,857 --> 00:06:34,660 to the opening of China to the world, 208 00:06:34,727 --> 00:06:36,000 we've seen a closing of sorts. 209 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:36,863 we've seen a closing of sorts. 210 00:06:36,929 --> 00:06:39,632 We've seen a centralization of power of the party. 211 00:06:39,699 --> 00:06:42,000 We've seen increased repression of the people of China here. 212 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,337 We've seen increased repression of the people of China here. 213 00:06:44,403 --> 00:06:48,000 That's a very significant trend just over the last decade. 214 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:48,407 That's a very significant trend just over the last decade. 215 00:06:48,474 --> 00:06:49,509 With Xi? 216 00:06:49,575 --> 00:06:50,576 Under his leadership. 217 00:06:50,643 --> 00:06:53,513 Part of that trend includes President Xi's 218 00:06:53,579 --> 00:06:54,000 reversing many of the market reforms 219 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,749 reversing many of the market reforms 220 00:06:56,816 --> 00:07:00,000 that unleashed China's economic miracle. 221 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:00,286 that unleashed China's economic miracle. 222 00:07:00,353 --> 00:07:02,755 They've been growing over 40 years, the fastest growth 223 00:07:02,822 --> 00:07:04,824 rate in recorded economic history, 224 00:07:04,891 --> 00:07:06,000 8%, 9%, 10%, 11% growth rates. 225 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,161 8%, 9%, 10%, 11% growth rates. 226 00:07:08,227 --> 00:07:10,830 They've lifted 800 million people out of poverty. 227 00:07:10,897 --> 00:07:12,000 But what's happening is that growth rate is slowing down. 228 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:13,699 But what's happening is that growth rate is slowing down. 229 00:07:13,766 --> 00:07:15,601 Most economists are now projecting 230 00:07:15,668 --> 00:07:18,000 they'll be at 2%, 3%, 4% growth, maybe even 231 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:18,838 they'll be at 2%, 3%, 4% growth, maybe even 232 00:07:18,905 --> 00:07:20,339 lower in the next decade. 233 00:07:20,406 --> 00:07:22,809 Can they support their society if it's that low? 234 00:07:22,875 --> 00:07:24,000 That's going to be difficult for them. 235 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:24,477 That's going to be difficult for them. 236 00:07:24,544 --> 00:07:27,780 If there was so much explosive growth, 237 00:07:27,847 --> 00:07:30,000 if so many people were lifted out of poverty, 238 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,551 if so many people were lifted out of poverty, 239 00:07:31,617 --> 00:07:34,320 why is he turning away from what worked? 240 00:07:34,387 --> 00:07:36,000 Well, I think they've got maybe competing priorities. 241 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:37,990 Well, I think they've got maybe competing priorities. 242 00:07:38,057 --> 00:07:39,959 The government here in China certainly 243 00:07:40,026 --> 00:07:42,000 wants the economy to grow, but they also 244 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:42,695 wants the economy to grow, but they also 245 00:07:42,762 --> 00:07:44,263 have a national security mindset. 246 00:07:44,330 --> 00:07:46,232 They want to control data. 247 00:07:46,299 --> 00:07:47,133 They want to-- 248 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:48,000 But that's more important, the control, right, 249 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:49,802 But that's more important, the control, right, 250 00:07:49,869 --> 00:07:51,871 than economic growth? 251 00:07:51,938 --> 00:07:53,306 It seems that way. 252 00:07:53,372 --> 00:07:54,000 I think it's open for debate. 253 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:55,107 I think it's open for debate. 254 00:07:55,174 --> 00:07:58,477 You're hearing-- we are hearing both messages. 255 00:07:58,544 --> 00:08:00,000 It sounds as if you yourself don't know the direction 256 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,315 It sounds as if you yourself don't know the direction 257 00:08:02,381 --> 00:08:03,249 it's going. 258 00:08:03,316 --> 00:08:06,000 What I perceive here is that the greater energy 259 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:06,919 What I perceive here is that the greater energy 260 00:08:06,986 --> 00:08:09,789 is with those on the national security side 261 00:08:09,856 --> 00:08:11,257 of the government of China. 262 00:08:11,324 --> 00:08:11,991 Good morning. 263 00:08:12,058 --> 00:08:12,625 How are you? 264 00:08:12,692 --> 00:08:15,862 On a train trip from Beijing to Shanghai, 265 00:08:15,928 --> 00:08:18,000 the ambassador pointed out that in the decades 266 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:18,865 the ambassador pointed out that in the decades 267 00:08:18,931 --> 00:08:22,869 before President Xi, China powered its economy 268 00:08:22,935 --> 00:08:24,000 by investing in these high-speed trains, roads, factories, 269 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:29,308 by investing in these high-speed trains, roads, factories, 270 00:08:29,375 --> 00:08:30,000 and skyscrapers that light up Shanghai, 271 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,745 and skyscrapers that light up Shanghai, 272 00:08:32,812 --> 00:08:34,714 the financial capital of China. 273 00:08:34,780 --> 00:08:35,348 [MUSIC PLAYING] 274 00:08:35,414 --> 00:08:36,000 But under President Xi, China lost more than $120 billion 275 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:40,152 But under President Xi, China lost more than $120 billion 276 00:08:40,219 --> 00:08:42,000 worth of long-term foreign investments 277 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:42,922 worth of long-term foreign investments 278 00:08:42,989 --> 00:08:45,825 last year because of the weakening economy 279 00:08:45,892 --> 00:08:48,000 and the harsh government tactics which 280 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:48,461 and the harsh government tactics which 281 00:08:48,527 --> 00:08:52,632 have left American companies uncertain of the future there. 282 00:08:52,698 --> 00:08:54,000 There are a lot of American companies here. 283 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:55,034 There are a lot of American companies here. 284 00:08:55,101 --> 00:08:57,169 Have a lot of them just picked up 285 00:08:57,236 --> 00:09:00,000 and left because of this current business environment? 286 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:00,139 and left because of this current business environment? 287 00:09:00,206 --> 00:09:01,574 You know, that's interesting. 288 00:09:01,641 --> 00:09:02,742 Not many. 289 00:09:02,808 --> 00:09:03,509 Not many. 290 00:09:03,576 --> 00:09:04,110 Not many. 291 00:09:04,176 --> 00:09:05,211 Why not? 292 00:09:05,278 --> 00:09:06,000 China is the second-largest economy in the world. 293 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:07,980 China is the second-largest economy in the world. 294 00:09:08,047 --> 00:09:08,748 It's a big market. 295 00:09:08,814 --> 00:09:12,000 So a few American companies have left, but most have stayed. 296 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:13,786 So a few American companies have left, but most have stayed. 297 00:09:13,853 --> 00:09:16,822 Some American companies are moving at least some 298 00:09:16,889 --> 00:09:18,000 of their operations to Singapore, Vietnam, Mexico. 299 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,527 of their operations to Singapore, Vietnam, Mexico. 300 00:09:21,594 --> 00:09:22,862 But they're not leaving China? 301 00:09:22,929 --> 00:09:23,896 They don't want to leave. 302 00:09:23,963 --> 00:09:24,000 The market's so irresistible to American business people. 303 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:28,367 The market's so irresistible to American business people. 304 00:09:28,434 --> 00:09:30,000 It's gigantic. 305 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:30,102 It's gigantic. 306 00:09:30,169 --> 00:09:33,039 Maybe they're not leaving, but they're not investing. 307 00:09:33,105 --> 00:09:34,507 They're not making major investments 308 00:09:34,573 --> 00:09:36,000 until they can see exactly where the government is headed. 309 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,210 until they can see exactly where the government is headed. 310 00:09:38,277 --> 00:09:42,000 Yet because of the 1.4 billion potential consumers, 311 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:42,648 Yet because of the 1.4 billion potential consumers, 312 00:09:42,715 --> 00:09:47,553 some companies like Disney are increasing their investment. 313 00:09:47,620 --> 00:09:48,000 Welcome to Shanghai Disney Resort. 314 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,089 Welcome to Shanghai Disney Resort. 315 00:09:50,156 --> 00:09:53,592 It recently expanded its Shanghai Disneyland 316 00:09:53,659 --> 00:09:54,000 that they told us is thriving. 317 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,330 that they told us is thriving. 318 00:09:57,396 --> 00:10:00,000 Aptar, a $9 billion company headquartered 319 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:00,666 Aptar, a $9 billion company headquartered 320 00:10:00,733 --> 00:10:04,737 in Crystal Lake, Illinois, is another American firm bucking 321 00:10:04,804 --> 00:10:06,000 the trend of capital flight. 322 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,039 the trend of capital flight. 323 00:10:07,106 --> 00:10:12,000 President of Aptar Asia, Xiangwei Gong, a Chinese-born US 324 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:12,645 President of Aptar Asia, Xiangwei Gong, a Chinese-born US 325 00:10:12,712 --> 00:10:17,149 citizen, showed us around one of their five manufacturing sites 326 00:10:17,216 --> 00:10:18,000 in China. 327 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:18,150 in China. 328 00:10:18,217 --> 00:10:23,122 We are manufacturing for some of the largest US brands, actually, 329 00:10:23,189 --> 00:10:24,000 the US consumer brands. 330 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:24,957 the US consumer brands. 331 00:10:25,024 --> 00:10:29,662 This factory makes the packaging and dispensing devices for food, 332 00:10:29,729 --> 00:10:30,000 pharmaceutical, and beauty products sold in Asia. 333 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,833 pharmaceutical, and beauty products sold in Asia. 334 00:10:33,899 --> 00:10:36,000 All our customers, like P&G, L'Oréal, Estée Lauder, 335 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:37,737 All our customers, like P&G, L'Oréal, Estée Lauder, 336 00:10:37,803 --> 00:10:40,239 they are all here doing business. 337 00:10:40,306 --> 00:10:42,000 Aptar, in China for nearly 30 years, 338 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:43,442 Aptar, in China for nearly 30 years, 339 00:10:43,509 --> 00:10:48,000 recently invested $60 million in a new factory. 340 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:48,114 recently invested $60 million in a new factory. 341 00:10:48,180 --> 00:10:52,118 Xiangwei Gong says even in a slowing economy, 342 00:10:52,184 --> 00:10:54,000 the company is doing well. 343 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:54,420 the company is doing well. 344 00:10:54,487 --> 00:10:57,590 American companies here, as the ambassador well knows, 345 00:10:57,656 --> 00:11:00,000 are pausing or cutting back on investment, but not this firm. 346 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,161 are pausing or cutting back on investment, but not this firm. 347 00:11:02,228 --> 00:11:03,562 You're expanding. 348 00:11:03,629 --> 00:11:06,000 Well, because we are here for the long term, 349 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:07,333 Well, because we are here for the long term, 350 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,803 and we believe in the consumption power of the rising 351 00:11:10,870 --> 00:11:11,670 middle class. 352 00:11:11,737 --> 00:11:12,000 It's 1.4 billion people here. 353 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:13,973 It's 1.4 billion people here. 354 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,476 And imagine, for example, health care, 355 00:11:17,543 --> 00:11:18,000 and the same with cosmetics, and beauty, and beverage, 356 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,980 and the same with cosmetics, and beauty, and beverage, 357 00:11:21,047 --> 00:11:22,915 all those sectors, packaged foods, 358 00:11:22,982 --> 00:11:24,000 these are really the biggest markets. 359 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:24,850 these are really the biggest markets. 360 00:11:24,917 --> 00:11:28,287 And so we are very confident about the long term. 361 00:11:28,354 --> 00:11:30,000 What does it say about the confidence really 362 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,491 What does it say about the confidence really 363 00:11:32,558 --> 00:11:35,227 in the US-China relationship? 364 00:11:35,294 --> 00:11:36,000 It seems to say you believe that things will what? 365 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:40,066 It seems to say you believe that things will what? 366 00:11:40,132 --> 00:11:42,000 I'm asking, get better? 367 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:42,368 I'm asking, get better? 368 00:11:42,435 --> 00:11:46,305 [LAUGHS] That's a great question for the ambassador. 369 00:11:46,372 --> 00:11:47,139 I believe so. 370 00:11:47,206 --> 00:11:48,000 I hope so. 371 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:48,441 I hope so. 372 00:11:48,507 --> 00:11:50,009 You know, we'll see. 373 00:11:50,076 --> 00:11:53,345 Actually, Burns says he's wary of the future, 374 00:11:53,412 --> 00:11:54,000 as the fundamental rivalry and mistrust between the US 375 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,283 as the fundamental rivalry and mistrust between the US 376 00:11:57,349 --> 00:12:00,000 and China is shaking the confidence of the business world 377 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:01,187 and China is shaking the confidence of the business world 378 00:12:01,253 --> 00:12:04,557 and has pushed our relationship to its lowest 379 00:12:04,623 --> 00:12:06,000 point in half a century. 380 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:06,959 point in half a century. 381 00:12:07,026 --> 00:12:10,129 Is it our most competitive relationship 382 00:12:10,196 --> 00:12:11,664 in the world right now? 383 00:12:11,730 --> 00:12:12,000 This is the most important, most competitive, and most dangerous 384 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:16,068 This is the most important, most competitive, and most dangerous 385 00:12:16,135 --> 00:12:17,837 relationship that the United States has in 386 00:12:17,903 --> 00:12:18,000 the world right now and will, I think, for the next decade 387 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,706 the world right now and will, I think, for the next decade 388 00:12:20,773 --> 00:12:21,740 or so. 389 00:12:21,807 --> 00:12:24,000 I want to quote you back to you and tell us what you meant. 390 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,045 I want to quote you back to you and tell us what you meant. 391 00:12:26,112 --> 00:12:30,000 You have said, divorce is not an option. 392 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:30,216 You have said, divorce is not an option. 393 00:12:30,282 --> 00:12:31,217 Right. 394 00:12:31,283 --> 00:12:33,219 Our two countries have to live together. 395 00:12:33,285 --> 00:12:35,521 And this, I think, is the greatest tension 396 00:12:35,588 --> 00:12:36,000 in the US-China relationship. 397 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:37,690 in the US-China relationship. 398 00:12:37,756 --> 00:12:40,793 China's our most significant competitor. 399 00:12:40,860 --> 00:12:42,000 And at the same time, China is our third-largest trade partner, 400 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,997 And at the same time, China is our third-largest trade partner, 401 00:12:45,064 --> 00:12:48,000 750,000 American jobs at stake. 402 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:48,234 750,000 American jobs at stake. 403 00:12:48,300 --> 00:12:50,970 Agriculture-- China is the largest market 404 00:12:51,036 --> 00:12:52,371 for US agriculture. 405 00:12:52,438 --> 00:12:54,000 1/5 of all of our export products from agriculture are 406 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,309 1/5 of all of our export products from agriculture are 407 00:12:57,376 --> 00:12:58,344 sent to China. 408 00:12:58,410 --> 00:13:00,000 That was $40.9 billion last year. 409 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:01,947 That was $40.9 billion last year. 410 00:13:02,014 --> 00:13:05,518 So we can't afford really to have a real break here. 411 00:13:05,584 --> 00:13:06,000 Well, it's complicated. 412 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:06,452 Well, it's complicated. 413 00:13:06,519 --> 00:13:07,686 All those jobs would-- 414 00:13:07,753 --> 00:13:09,121 It's complicated. 415 00:13:09,188 --> 00:13:11,857 Some people are saying, well, we're so competitive with China, 416 00:13:11,924 --> 00:13:12,000 we should end the economic relationship. 417 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:13,559 we should end the economic relationship. 418 00:13:13,626 --> 00:13:17,396 Well, the consequence of that would be 750,000 American 419 00:13:17,463 --> 00:13:18,000 families wouldn't be able to put dinner on the table. 420 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,799 families wouldn't be able to put dinner on the table. 421 00:13:20,866 --> 00:13:24,000 And so, this makes for an extraordinarily difficult 422 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:24,236 And so, this makes for an extraordinarily difficult 423 00:13:24,303 --> 00:13:26,672 balancing act in my job. 424 00:13:26,739 --> 00:13:28,541 You're a Wallenda Brother. 425 00:13:28,607 --> 00:13:30,000 I've never thought of myself that way. 426 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:30,342 I've never thought of myself that way. 427 00:13:30,409 --> 00:13:30,776 [LAUGHS] But you're up on that tightrope. 428 00:13:30,843 --> 00:13:32,211 But highwire, right? 429 00:13:32,278 --> 00:13:34,813 Well, we have competing interests here. 430 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:36,000 And balancing those interests is the reality 431 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,316 And balancing those interests is the reality 432 00:13:37,383 --> 00:13:39,151 in the US-China relationship. 433 00:13:39,218 --> 00:13:40,119 We're going to compete. 434 00:13:40,186 --> 00:13:42,000 We have to compete responsibly and keep 435 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:42,154 We have to compete responsibly and keep 436 00:13:42,221 --> 00:13:46,859 the peace between our countries, but we also have to engage. 437 00:13:46,926 --> 00:13:48,000 More about the balancing act and the biggest economic problem 438 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,130 More about the balancing act and the biggest economic problem 439 00:13:51,197 --> 00:13:54,000 in China today when we come back. 440 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:54,900 in China today when we come back. 441 00:13:54,967 --> 00:13:57,369 [TICKING] 442 00:14:02,608 --> 00:14:06,000 One in every five people in the world is Chinese. 443 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:06,845 One in every five people in the world is Chinese. 444 00:14:06,912 --> 00:14:10,916 China's population is four times that of the US. 445 00:14:10,983 --> 00:14:12,000 And the country is vast-- 446 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:12,718 And the country is vast-- 447 00:14:12,785 --> 00:14:15,921 3.7 million square miles. 448 00:14:15,988 --> 00:14:18,000 It overlooks the Taiwan Strait, where half the world's 449 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:19,792 It overlooks the Taiwan Strait, where half the world's 450 00:14:19,858 --> 00:14:24,000 trade flows every day, and is located about 100 miles away 451 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:24,530 trade flows every day, and is located about 100 miles away 452 00:14:24,597 --> 00:14:26,398 from Taiwan. 453 00:14:26,465 --> 00:14:29,802 President Xi likes to say that the East is rising, 454 00:14:29,868 --> 00:14:30,000 the West is declining. 455 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:31,804 the West is declining. 456 00:14:31,870 --> 00:14:36,000 But economically, the US is thriving compared to China. 457 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:36,909 But economically, the US is thriving compared to China. 458 00:14:36,976 --> 00:14:40,112 In December, Moody's, the credit rating agency, 459 00:14:40,179 --> 00:14:42,000 cut its outlook for China to negative, 460 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,082 cut its outlook for China to negative, 461 00:14:43,148 --> 00:14:47,653 and it's facing a long-term demographic bind, a decline 462 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:48,000 in the birth rate that experts say is irreversible, 463 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,523 in the birth rate that experts say is irreversible, 464 00:14:51,590 --> 00:14:54,000 meaning the country is both aging and shrinking. 465 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:55,661 meaning the country is both aging and shrinking. 466 00:14:55,728 --> 00:14:58,731 Ambassador Nicholas Burns took us on a tour 467 00:14:58,797 --> 00:14:59,999 starting in Beijing. 468 00:15:00,065 --> 00:15:00,733 [MUSIC PLAYING] 469 00:15:00,799 --> 00:15:02,735 The ambassador and his wife, Libby, 470 00:15:02,801 --> 00:15:05,471 like to take early morning walks through a park 471 00:15:05,537 --> 00:15:06,000 near their residence. 472 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:06,438 near their residence. 473 00:15:06,505 --> 00:15:07,072 [MUSIC PLAYING] 474 00:15:07,139 --> 00:15:09,108 [SINGING IN CHINESE] 475 00:15:12,344 --> 00:15:16,448 This is a 600-year-old Ming Dynasty park called Ritan Park. 476 00:15:16,515 --> 00:15:18,000 It's a place for a lot of retirees 477 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:18,417 It's a place for a lot of retirees 478 00:15:18,484 --> 00:15:21,587 and a lot of young people, and it's tremendously active. 479 00:15:21,654 --> 00:15:22,221 [MUSIC PLAYING] 480 00:15:22,288 --> 00:15:24,000 It's where the locals come for their early morning routines, 481 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,126 It's where the locals come for their early morning routines, 482 00:15:27,192 --> 00:15:30,000 like Tai Chi, yo-yoing, and ping pong. 483 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:34,867 like Tai Chi, yo-yoing, and ping pong. 484 00:15:34,933 --> 00:15:35,367 Oops. 485 00:15:35,434 --> 00:15:36,000 [SPEAKING CHINESE] 486 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:36,735 [SPEAKING CHINESE] 487 00:15:36,802 --> 00:15:38,937 [LAUGHTER] 488 00:15:39,004 --> 00:15:40,406 [SPEAKING CHINESE] 489 00:15:40,472 --> 00:15:42,000 You couldn't tell from these scenes-- 490 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:42,775 You couldn't tell from these scenes-- 491 00:15:42,841 --> 00:15:43,275 Whoa! 492 00:15:43,342 --> 00:15:47,046 --that China, where the COVID pandemic began, 493 00:15:47,112 --> 00:15:48,000 is still emerging from the trauma of President Xi Jinping's 494 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,317 is still emerging from the trauma of President Xi Jinping's 495 00:15:51,383 --> 00:15:54,000 oppressive zero-COVID policy. 496 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:54,586 oppressive zero-COVID policy. 497 00:15:54,653 --> 00:15:58,557 Burns, 68, a career diplomat, who 498 00:15:58,624 --> 00:16:00,000 has served in both Republican and Democratic administrations, 499 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,294 has served in both Republican and Democratic administrations, 500 00:16:02,361 --> 00:16:06,000 got to China at the height of the zero-COVID lockdowns 501 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:06,565 got to China at the height of the zero-COVID lockdowns 502 00:16:06,632 --> 00:16:08,133 and quarantines. 503 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:12,000 When my wife Libby and I arrived here in early March of 2022, 504 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:12,871 When my wife Libby and I arrived here in early March of 2022, 505 00:16:12,938 --> 00:16:15,441 we were quarantined in this house for 21 days, 506 00:16:15,507 --> 00:16:16,508 for three weeks. 507 00:16:16,575 --> 00:16:18,000 Shanghai, a city of 26 million people, 508 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:19,445 Shanghai, a city of 26 million people, 509 00:16:19,511 --> 00:16:23,482 was completely locked down for 63 days. 510 00:16:23,549 --> 00:16:24,000 What was that like in the city? 511 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:25,617 What was that like in the city? 512 00:16:25,684 --> 00:16:28,087 Well, we had women who needed to give birth, 513 00:16:28,153 --> 00:16:30,000 and we had to find a way to get them to the hospital. 514 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:30,789 and we had to find a way to get them to the hospital. 515 00:16:30,856 --> 00:16:32,958 We had Americans who wanted to get out 516 00:16:33,025 --> 00:16:36,000 but had to find a way out of their locked compounds 517 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:36,195 but had to find a way out of their locked compounds 518 00:16:36,261 --> 00:16:37,730 to the airport. 519 00:16:37,796 --> 00:16:40,499 So zero-COVID worked for a while. 520 00:16:40,566 --> 00:16:42,000 In '20 and '21 they had very low or relatively lower 521 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,036 In '20 and '21 they had very low or relatively lower 522 00:16:44,103 --> 00:16:44,737 infection rates. 523 00:16:44,803 --> 00:16:48,000 But by 2022, it had really divided this society. 524 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:48,140 But by 2022, it had really divided this society. 525 00:16:48,207 --> 00:16:49,108 [SHOUTING AND HONKING] 526 00:16:49,174 --> 00:16:52,611 It set off rare widespread protests. 527 00:16:52,678 --> 00:16:54,000 Then in December of 2022, President Xi 528 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,181 Then in December of 2022, President Xi 529 00:16:56,248 --> 00:16:58,951 ended the policy abruptly. 530 00:16:59,017 --> 00:17:00,000 The last thing this government is going to accept here 531 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:01,186 The last thing this government is going to accept here 532 00:17:01,253 --> 00:17:03,055 is volatility. 533 00:17:03,122 --> 00:17:06,000 Volatility is something Joerg Wuttke, a German businessman, 534 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:07,426 Volatility is something Joerg Wuttke, a German businessman, 535 00:17:07,493 --> 00:17:10,729 who's lived and worked in China for over 30 years, 536 00:17:10,796 --> 00:17:12,000 hadn't seen since the Tiananmen Square uprising in 1989. 537 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:16,402 hadn't seen since the Tiananmen Square uprising in 1989. 538 00:17:16,468 --> 00:17:18,000 He represents BASF, the world's largest chemical producer. 539 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,040 He represents BASF, the world's largest chemical producer. 540 00:17:22,107 --> 00:17:24,000 You have said this is a PTSD country, post traumatic stress 541 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,412 You have said this is a PTSD country, post traumatic stress 542 00:17:26,478 --> 00:17:27,913 disorder country. 543 00:17:27,980 --> 00:17:29,348 What do you mean? 544 00:17:29,415 --> 00:17:30,000 Well, everybody has been traumatized 545 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,316 Well, everybody has been traumatized 546 00:17:31,383 --> 00:17:35,454 by the lockdowns that took place in many cities across China. 547 00:17:35,521 --> 00:17:36,000 And the kind of messaging that came out of the leadership is, 548 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,257 And the kind of messaging that came out of the leadership is, 549 00:17:38,323 --> 00:17:39,625 for your own safety. 550 00:17:39,691 --> 00:17:41,794 And then the lockdown was lifted. 551 00:17:41,860 --> 00:17:42,000 Actually, it was more a capitulation 552 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:43,362 Actually, it was more a capitulation 553 00:17:43,429 --> 00:17:44,296 from the government. 554 00:17:44,363 --> 00:17:47,299 The lockdown basically left and like a tsunami-- 555 00:17:47,366 --> 00:17:48,000 They said, we were wrong, we're going to lift it? 556 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:49,368 They said, we were wrong, we're going to lift it? 557 00:17:49,435 --> 00:17:50,669 They never said they were wrong. 558 00:17:50,736 --> 00:17:53,238 That's not the system to admit that they did something wrong. 559 00:17:53,305 --> 00:17:54,000 And then you basically, like a tsunami, 560 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,607 And then you basically, like a tsunami, 561 00:17:55,674 --> 00:17:57,676 COVID was rolling across the country. 562 00:17:57,743 --> 00:17:59,344 After they lifted it? 563 00:17:59,411 --> 00:18:00,000 December, January, I would say a billion people were infected 564 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,448 December, January, I would say a billion people were infected 565 00:18:02,514 --> 00:18:05,150 and, certainly, lots of people died. 566 00:18:05,217 --> 00:18:06,000 Independent analysts say that an estimated 1.4 million people 567 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:10,389 Independent analysts say that an estimated 1.4 million people 568 00:18:10,456 --> 00:18:11,190 died. 569 00:18:11,256 --> 00:18:12,000 This kind of environment really changes your attitude 570 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,226 This kind of environment really changes your attitude 571 00:18:14,293 --> 00:18:14,760 towards life. 572 00:18:14,827 --> 00:18:16,462 And in business, we thought we're 573 00:18:16,528 --> 00:18:18,000 going to have a comeback story. 574 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:18,063 going to have a comeback story. 575 00:18:18,130 --> 00:18:20,332 And we had a good couple of weeks. 576 00:18:20,399 --> 00:18:24,000 And then the economy basically has been flat since. 577 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:24,002 And then the economy basically has been flat since. 578 00:18:24,069 --> 00:18:26,939 After COVID, in the West, in the United States 579 00:18:27,005 --> 00:18:30,000 particularly, we did have a huge quick rebound. 580 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:31,009 particularly, we did have a huge quick rebound. 581 00:18:31,076 --> 00:18:32,945 Why didn't it happen here? 582 00:18:33,011 --> 00:18:35,347 Well, I think that COVID also has covered up 583 00:18:35,414 --> 00:18:36,000 a couple of long-term problems that China 584 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:37,416 a couple of long-term problems that China 585 00:18:37,483 --> 00:18:39,818 has been building up, for example, in the real estate 586 00:18:39,885 --> 00:18:40,719 sector. 587 00:18:40,786 --> 00:18:42,000 We reported on the real estate sector 10 years ago, 588 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,289 We reported on the real estate sector 10 years ago, 589 00:18:44,356 --> 00:18:46,391 with astonishing sights like this-- 590 00:18:46,458 --> 00:18:46,892 [BARK] 591 00:18:46,959 --> 00:18:48,000 --of empty buildings in city after city across the country. 592 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:52,498 --of empty buildings in city after city across the country. 593 00:18:52,564 --> 00:18:54,000 This is today. 594 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:54,299 This is today. 595 00:18:54,366 --> 00:18:57,169 Similar hollowed-out wastelands of 596 00:18:57,236 --> 00:19:00,000 unoccupied and unfinished apartments 597 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:00,038 unoccupied and unfinished apartments 598 00:19:00,105 --> 00:19:02,207 known as ghost cities. 599 00:19:02,274 --> 00:19:04,943 When I was here 10 years ago, I never 600 00:19:05,010 --> 00:19:06,000 expected to see these buildings still here. 601 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,146 expected to see these buildings still here. 602 00:19:08,213 --> 00:19:09,047 [LAUGHS] Yeah. 603 00:19:09,114 --> 00:19:12,000 What was a housing bubble back then grew and finally exploded. 604 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,354 What was a housing bubble back then grew and finally exploded. 605 00:19:15,420 --> 00:19:18,000 This real estate crisis lies at the heart 606 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:18,223 This real estate crisis lies at the heart 607 00:19:18,290 --> 00:19:20,893 of China's economic decline. 608 00:19:20,959 --> 00:19:24,000 Has anybody counted up the number of empty units, I mean, 609 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,298 Has anybody counted up the number of empty units, I mean, 610 00:19:26,365 --> 00:19:27,833 across the whole country? 611 00:19:27,900 --> 00:19:30,000 Well, the whole of Germany, we have 82 million people, 612 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:30,302 Well, the whole of Germany, we have 82 million people, 613 00:19:30,369 --> 00:19:31,737 could move in here right away. 614 00:19:31,803 --> 00:19:34,940 80 to 90 million apartments are empty. 615 00:19:35,007 --> 00:19:36,000 80 to 90 million apartments are empty. 616 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,610 80 to 90 million apartments are empty. 617 00:19:38,677 --> 00:19:39,177 Yes, at least. 618 00:19:39,244 --> 00:19:39,678 Right. 619 00:19:39,745 --> 00:19:40,979 Unfinished. 620 00:19:41,046 --> 00:19:42,000 Over the years, Chinese banks readily 621 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:43,949 Over the years, Chinese banks readily 622 00:19:44,016 --> 00:19:47,519 loaned money to the developers as the building boom 623 00:19:47,586 --> 00:19:48,000 created millions of jobs and propelled China's growth. 624 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:52,257 created millions of jobs and propelled China's growth. 625 00:19:52,324 --> 00:19:54,000 But in 2020, the government under President Xi 626 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:55,561 But in 2020, the government under President Xi 627 00:19:55,627 --> 00:19:58,397 clamped down on the rampant borrowing, 628 00:19:58,463 --> 00:20:00,000 causing the major developers to default on their loans 629 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,067 causing the major developers to default on their loans 630 00:20:02,134 --> 00:20:04,236 and run out of money. 631 00:20:04,303 --> 00:20:04,903 Look at that. 632 00:20:04,970 --> 00:20:06,000 The facade isn't even finished. 633 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:06,738 The facade isn't even finished. 634 00:20:06,805 --> 00:20:07,339 Yeah. 635 00:20:07,406 --> 00:20:11,777 He says they couldn't even afford to take down the cranes. 636 00:20:11,843 --> 00:20:12,000 In January, Evergrande, once China's largest developer, 637 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,981 In January, Evergrande, once China's largest developer, 638 00:20:16,048 --> 00:20:18,000 was ordered to liquidate its remaining assets. 639 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:19,918 was ordered to liquidate its remaining assets. 640 00:20:19,985 --> 00:20:23,655 Left in the lurch are millions of Chinese citizens 641 00:20:23,722 --> 00:20:24,000 who bought these apartments before they were built. 642 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,359 who bought these apartments before they were built. 643 00:20:27,426 --> 00:20:29,995 The developers owe their customers. 644 00:20:30,062 --> 00:20:33,632 They paid up to the magnitude of $1 trillion USD. 645 00:20:33,699 --> 00:20:35,300 So if I did a down payment-- 646 00:20:35,367 --> 00:20:35,801 Yes. 647 00:20:35,867 --> 00:20:36,000 --on one of these apartments-- 648 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,269 --on one of these apartments-- 649 00:20:37,336 --> 00:20:37,769 Right. 650 00:20:37,836 --> 00:20:40,172 --will I ever see that money? 651 00:20:40,238 --> 00:20:41,940 No, you will not see the money. 652 00:20:42,007 --> 00:20:42,441 It's gone. 653 00:20:42,507 --> 00:20:42,674 It's vanished. 654 00:20:42,741 --> 00:20:43,041 It's gone. 655 00:20:43,108 --> 00:20:43,609 It's finished. 656 00:20:43,675 --> 00:20:46,244 So I mean, it's really dramatic. 657 00:20:46,311 --> 00:20:48,000 10 years ago, we were told that this 658 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,281 10 years ago, we were told that this 659 00:20:49,348 --> 00:20:52,584 was the way people put money down for their nest egg-- 660 00:20:52,651 --> 00:20:53,085 Right. 661 00:20:53,151 --> 00:20:54,000 --for their retirement fund. 662 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:54,553 --for their retirement fund. 663 00:20:54,620 --> 00:20:55,053 Yes. 664 00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:56,488 Is that still the case? 665 00:20:56,555 --> 00:21:00,000 66%, 2/3 of a family household average wealth is 666 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,660 66%, 2/3 of a family household average wealth is 667 00:21:01,727 --> 00:21:03,195 in an apartment. 668 00:21:03,261 --> 00:21:06,000 That loss of wealth has depressed consumer spending 669 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:06,798 That loss of wealth has depressed consumer spending 670 00:21:06,865 --> 00:21:09,234 and dragged down the economy. 671 00:21:09,301 --> 00:21:12,000 We wondered if the people blame President Xi for that 672 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:12,871 We wondered if the people blame President Xi for that 673 00:21:12,938 --> 00:21:16,375 or for the COVID deaths, but it was impossible 674 00:21:16,441 --> 00:21:18,000 for us to gauge public opinion or if it even matters. 675 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,479 for us to gauge public opinion or if it even matters. 676 00:21:20,545 --> 00:21:23,382 While no one from the government would give us an interview, 677 00:21:23,448 --> 00:21:24,000 we were able to learn, as Joerg Wuttke, who's 678 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,652 we were able to learn, as Joerg Wuttke, who's 679 00:21:26,718 --> 00:21:28,854 lived here for 30 years, told us, 680 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:30,000 it's not a good idea to bet against the Chinese people. 681 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,225 it's not a good idea to bet against the Chinese people. 682 00:21:33,291 --> 00:21:36,000 What are some of the positive aspects of the economy here? 683 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:37,729 What are some of the positive aspects of the economy here? 684 00:21:37,796 --> 00:21:41,767 They do have a strong manufacturing base still. 685 00:21:41,833 --> 00:21:42,000 Well, the big part is really between the ears of people, 686 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,436 Well, the big part is really between the ears of people, 687 00:21:44,503 --> 00:21:47,005 the brains of the Chinese entrepreneurs that actually 688 00:21:47,072 --> 00:21:48,000 made this success story happen. 689 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:48,807 made this success story happen. 690 00:21:48,874 --> 00:21:51,109 China is not really good in basic research, 691 00:21:51,176 --> 00:21:52,811 but they are fantastic in developing. 692 00:21:52,878 --> 00:21:54,000 They're world champion in actually making products 693 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:54,913 They're world champion in actually making products 694 00:21:54,980 --> 00:21:57,149 better, faster, and cheaper. 695 00:21:57,215 --> 00:21:58,016 Are they better? 696 00:21:58,083 --> 00:21:59,551 Yes, they are in some areas. 697 00:21:59,618 --> 00:22:00,000 Our Chinese competitors are breathing down our neck 698 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,487 Our Chinese competitors are breathing down our neck 699 00:22:02,554 --> 00:22:05,190 and basically drive some of us out of the market. 700 00:22:05,257 --> 00:22:06,000 For instance, China now makes over 80% of all the solar panels 701 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,162 For instance, China now makes over 80% of all the solar panels 702 00:22:10,228 --> 00:22:11,263 in the world. 703 00:22:11,329 --> 00:22:12,000 It dominates the wind turbine market 704 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,466 It dominates the wind turbine market 705 00:22:14,533 --> 00:22:17,636 and last year became the world's biggest exporter 706 00:22:17,703 --> 00:22:18,000 of cars and more. 707 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,172 of cars and more. 708 00:22:20,238 --> 00:22:22,140 They're the leading trade partner 709 00:22:22,207 --> 00:22:24,000 of twice as many countries in the world as the United States. 710 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:25,944 of twice as many countries in the world as the United States. 711 00:22:26,011 --> 00:22:27,045 So they have global reach. 712 00:22:27,112 --> 00:22:29,314 They're the leading trade partner? 713 00:22:29,381 --> 00:22:30,000 With over 60 countries in the world. 714 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,249 With over 60 countries in the world. 715 00:22:31,316 --> 00:22:33,719 And now, with heavy government subsidies-- 716 00:22:33,785 --> 00:22:34,486 [HONK] 717 00:22:34,553 --> 00:22:36,000 --it is fast becoming a leader in electric vehicles. 718 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,623 --it is fast becoming a leader in electric vehicles. 719 00:22:38,690 --> 00:22:42,000 The car maker BYD, is vying with Tesla 720 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:42,360 The car maker BYD, is vying with Tesla 721 00:22:42,427 --> 00:22:46,732 for the title of best-selling EV maker in the world. 722 00:22:46,798 --> 00:22:48,000 Shanghai-based NIO is trying to break through 723 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,435 Shanghai-based NIO is trying to break through 724 00:22:50,502 --> 00:22:53,004 with high-tech innovations. 725 00:22:53,071 --> 00:22:54,000 In December, the company unveiled a new battery 726 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,041 In December, the company unveiled a new battery 727 00:22:56,108 --> 00:22:59,478 with a driving range of 620 miles, 728 00:22:59,544 --> 00:23:00,000 more than 200 miles further than Tesla's top-end model. 729 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,416 more than 200 miles further than Tesla's top-end model. 730 00:23:04,483 --> 00:23:04,983 This is nice. 731 00:23:05,050 --> 00:23:06,000 This is our flagship. 732 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:06,952 This is our flagship. 733 00:23:07,018 --> 00:23:10,288 William Li, the CEO and founder of NIO, 734 00:23:10,355 --> 00:23:12,000 says its battery swap technology allows owners to swap out 735 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,093 says its battery swap technology allows owners to swap out 736 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,000 their depleted battery for a fully charged one 737 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:18,764 their depleted battery for a fully charged one 738 00:23:18,830 --> 00:23:20,732 in under three minutes. 739 00:23:20,799 --> 00:23:24,000 Exactly it's a 2.5 minutes. 740 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:24,503 Exactly it's a 2.5 minutes. 741 00:23:24,569 --> 00:23:25,070 2.5 minutes? 742 00:23:25,137 --> 00:23:26,404 [LAUGHS] 2.5, yes. 743 00:23:26,471 --> 00:23:30,000 We already installed 2,200 swap stations all around China. 744 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,578 We already installed 2,200 swap stations all around China. 745 00:23:33,645 --> 00:23:34,546 Shanghai, [INAUDIBLE]. 746 00:23:34,613 --> 00:23:36,000 China is also developing a humanoid robot industry. 747 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:40,819 China is also developing a humanoid robot industry. 748 00:23:40,886 --> 00:23:41,620 Look at that. 749 00:23:41,686 --> 00:23:42,000 After lots of year, it's coming true. 750 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,622 After lots of year, it's coming true. 751 00:23:43,688 --> 00:23:47,959 Alex Gu is the founder and CEO of Fourier Intelligence. 752 00:23:48,026 --> 00:23:48,960 Hi there. 753 00:23:49,027 --> 00:23:54,000 Last year he launched the GR-1, his first generation humanoid. 754 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,201 Last year he launched the GR-1, his first generation humanoid. 755 00:23:56,268 --> 00:23:57,569 We can do arm. 756 00:23:57,636 --> 00:23:58,804 You can swing the arm. 757 00:23:58,870 --> 00:23:59,638 Yeah, you see? 758 00:23:59,704 --> 00:24:00,000 Oh, look at the fingers. 759 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,506 Oh, look at the fingers. 760 00:24:01,573 --> 00:24:03,809 Oh my word. 761 00:24:03,875 --> 00:24:04,743 Can he play the piano? 762 00:24:04,810 --> 00:24:05,243 [LAUGHS] 763 00:24:05,310 --> 00:24:06,000 Yeah, future, definitely can. 764 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:06,645 Yeah, future, definitely can. 765 00:24:06,711 --> 00:24:07,212 In the future. 766 00:24:07,279 --> 00:24:07,913 [LAUGHS] 767 00:24:07,979 --> 00:24:10,749 Also in the future, he says, the robots 768 00:24:10,816 --> 00:24:12,000 could provide health care for China's rapidly aging 769 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,386 could provide health care for China's rapidly aging 770 00:24:14,452 --> 00:24:15,654 population. 771 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,000 Maybe we can, for example, we can remote 772 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,257 Maybe we can, for example, we can remote 773 00:24:19,324 --> 00:24:23,328 control such kind of robots to help my grandpa, [LAUGHS] 774 00:24:23,395 --> 00:24:24,000 for example. 775 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:24,362 for example. 776 00:24:24,429 --> 00:24:25,430 Yeah, I think. 777 00:24:25,497 --> 00:24:25,931 Yeah. 778 00:24:25,997 --> 00:24:29,634 President Xi, who visited this company last year, 779 00:24:29,701 --> 00:24:30,000 has called for the mass production of humanoids by 2025. 780 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:34,806 has called for the mass production of humanoids by 2025. 781 00:24:34,873 --> 00:24:36,000 [SPEAKING CHINESE] 782 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:36,541 [SPEAKING CHINESE] 783 00:24:36,608 --> 00:24:38,777 In his annual New Year's speech, he 784 00:24:38,844 --> 00:24:41,580 talked about the country's economic woes 785 00:24:41,646 --> 00:24:42,000 and, for the first time, acknowledged 786 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,149 and, for the first time, acknowledged 787 00:24:44,216 --> 00:24:46,284 the high unemployment rate. 788 00:24:46,351 --> 00:24:48,000 Still, he has laid out a long-term goal 789 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,254 Still, he has laid out a long-term goal 790 00:24:49,321 --> 00:24:52,824 of doubling China's economy by 2035 791 00:24:52,891 --> 00:24:54,000 and surpassing the West in technology. 792 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,228 and surpassing the West in technology. 793 00:24:56,294 --> 00:24:58,697 Our companies and tech experts are 794 00:24:58,763 --> 00:25:00,000 competing on AI, and biotech, and quantum mathematics. 795 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,868 competing on AI, and biotech, and quantum mathematics. 796 00:25:02,934 --> 00:25:05,937 All those technological advances will 797 00:25:06,004 --> 00:25:09,441 lead to a new generation of military technology. 798 00:25:09,507 --> 00:25:12,000 Our two militaries are vying for military supremacy. 799 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:12,944 Our two militaries are vying for military supremacy. 800 00:25:13,011 --> 00:25:14,412 Who's going to be the most powerful 801 00:25:14,479 --> 00:25:16,815 in the most important strategic part of the world, which 802 00:25:16,882 --> 00:25:18,000 is the Indo-Pacific. 803 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:18,950 is the Indo-Pacific. 804 00:25:19,017 --> 00:25:23,355 Presidents Biden and Xi met in San Francisco in November 805 00:25:23,421 --> 00:25:24,000 in hopes of reestablishing military communications 806 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,025 in hopes of reestablishing military communications 807 00:25:27,092 --> 00:25:30,000 between our two countries, which China had cut off. 808 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:30,962 between our two countries, which China had cut off. 809 00:25:31,029 --> 00:25:34,799 I think we're back to a more settled and stable relationship 810 00:25:34,866 --> 00:25:35,867 between the two countries. 811 00:25:35,934 --> 00:25:36,000 But it's been a roller coaster. 812 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:37,535 But it's been a roller coaster. 813 00:25:37,602 --> 00:25:42,000 The low point, he says, was the spy balloon incident last year. 814 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:42,540 The low point, he says, was the spy balloon incident last year. 815 00:25:42,607 --> 00:25:44,309 But there's also been the buildup 816 00:25:44,376 --> 00:25:47,612 of military bases in the South China sea, 817 00:25:47,679 --> 00:25:48,000 the increase of air sorties near Taiwan, 818 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,082 the increase of air sorties near Taiwan, 819 00:25:51,149 --> 00:25:54,000 and the buzzing of US military planes. 820 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:54,753 and the buzzing of US military planes. 821 00:25:54,819 --> 00:25:58,323 Do you see a lowering of the temperature in the South China 822 00:25:58,390 --> 00:25:59,324 Sea? 823 00:25:59,391 --> 00:26:00,000 No, and that's a problem. 824 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,426 No, and that's a problem. 825 00:26:01,493 --> 00:26:02,093 You don't? 826 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,363 And then in Taiwan, following Speaker Pelosi's visit, 827 00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:06,000 we've seen now for 16 months a much higher rate of Chinese 828 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,234 we've seen now for 16 months a much higher rate of Chinese 829 00:26:09,301 --> 00:26:11,803 both air activity and naval activity, 830 00:26:11,870 --> 00:26:12,000 that's very intimidating, meant to intimidate. 831 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,406 that's very intimidating, meant to intimidate. 832 00:26:14,472 --> 00:26:15,206 And that hasn't-- 833 00:26:15,273 --> 00:26:15,640 --the Taiwan authorities. 834 00:26:15,707 --> 00:26:17,208 They haven't pulled back on that? 835 00:26:17,275 --> 00:26:18,000 They haven't pulled back on that. 836 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:18,910 They haven't pulled back on that. 837 00:26:18,977 --> 00:26:21,813 And I think, ultimately, they want to become and overtake 838 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,000 the United States as the dominant country globally. 839 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,450 the United States as the dominant country globally. 840 00:26:25,517 --> 00:26:27,285 And we don't want that to happen. 841 00:26:27,352 --> 00:26:30,000 We don't want to live in a world where the Chinese are 842 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:30,088 We don't want to live in a world where the Chinese are 843 00:26:30,155 --> 00:26:31,323 the dominant country. 844 00:26:31,389 --> 00:26:36,000 When the Cold War ended, we all thought our system had won. 845 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:37,128 When the Cold War ended, we all thought our system had won. 846 00:26:37,195 --> 00:26:37,896 Yeah. 847 00:26:37,963 --> 00:26:41,800 Their system failed, our system rose up. 848 00:26:41,866 --> 00:26:42,000 Now he's come back and said, no, no, the communist system 849 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,837 Now he's come back and said, no, no, the communist system 850 00:26:45,904 --> 00:26:47,305 is the right way. 851 00:26:47,372 --> 00:26:48,000 I guess we didn't bury that after all. 852 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,909 I guess we didn't bury that after all. 853 00:26:50,976 --> 00:26:54,000 It's interesting to compare the old Cold War with this time. 854 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:54,980 It's interesting to compare the old Cold War with this time. 855 00:26:55,046 --> 00:26:59,117 What distinguishes this time versus the old Cold War, 856 00:26:59,184 --> 00:27:00,000 Soviet Union had a strong military and nuclear weapons. 857 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,420 Soviet Union had a strong military and nuclear weapons. 858 00:27:02,487 --> 00:27:06,000 It had a very weak economy, which in no way 859 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:06,291 It had a very weak economy, which in no way 860 00:27:06,358 --> 00:27:07,859 competed with ours. 861 00:27:07,926 --> 00:27:11,196 China's economy is very strong. 862 00:27:11,262 --> 00:27:12,000 We're dealing with an adversary, a competitor in China, 863 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,966 We're dealing with an adversary, a competitor in China, 864 00:27:15,033 --> 00:27:18,000 stronger than the Soviet Union was in the 1940s, 865 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,070 stronger than the Soviet Union was in the 1940s, 866 00:27:19,137 --> 00:27:21,272 '50s, '60s, '70s, and '80s. 867 00:27:21,339 --> 00:27:24,000 So if that was a Cold War, what are you calling this? 868 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:24,809 So if that was a Cold War, what are you calling this? 869 00:27:24,876 --> 00:27:30,000 It's a competition of ideas, a battle of ideas. 870 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:30,148 It's a competition of ideas, a battle of ideas. 871 00:27:30,215 --> 00:27:34,753 Our idea, America's big idea, of a democratic society 872 00:27:34,819 --> 00:27:36,000 and human freedom versus China's idea 873 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:37,589 and human freedom versus China's idea 874 00:27:37,655 --> 00:27:40,825 that a communist state is stronger than a democracy. 875 00:27:40,892 --> 00:27:42,000 We don't believe that. 876 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:42,594 We don't believe that. 877 00:27:42,660 --> 00:27:46,664 So there's a battle here as to whose ideas 878 00:27:46,731 --> 00:27:48,000 should lead the world. 879 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:48,199 should lead the world. 880 00:27:48,266 --> 00:27:51,636 And we believe those are American ideas. 881 00:27:51,703 --> 00:27:54,000 The latest salvos in the battle for supremacy 882 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:54,839 The latest salvos in the battle for supremacy 883 00:27:54,906 --> 00:27:57,442 came last month when China conducted 884 00:27:57,509 --> 00:28:00,000 two days of large scale war games around Taiwan, 885 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,780 two days of large scale war games around Taiwan, 886 00:28:01,846 --> 00:28:05,583 and President Biden imposed new stiff tariffs, 887 00:28:05,650 --> 00:28:06,000 including 100% tax on Chinese electric vehicles. 888 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:11,022 including 100% tax on Chinese electric vehicles. 889 00:28:11,089 --> 00:28:12,000 [TICKING] 890 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:13,291 [TICKING] 891 00:28:14,192 --> 00:28:15,427 Grow up and get married. 892 00:28:15,493 --> 00:28:18,000 Lesley Stahl on witnessing China change while reporting 893 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:18,730 Lesley Stahl on witnessing China change while reporting 894 00:28:18,797 --> 00:28:20,065 for 60 Minutes-- 895 00:28:20,131 --> 00:28:22,467 This was different from the other times 896 00:28:22,534 --> 00:28:23,835 I've been there reporting. 897 00:28:23,902 --> 00:28:24,000 --at 60minutesovertime.com, sponsored by Nurtec ODT. 898 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,872 --at 60minutesovertime.com, sponsored by Nurtec ODT. 899 00:28:27,939 --> 00:28:29,908 [QUIET TALKING] 900 00:28:31,876 --> 00:28:34,345 [TICKING] 901 00:28:36,314 --> 00:28:38,850 The day Russia invaded one of its neighbors, 902 00:28:38,917 --> 00:28:41,319 waged a bloody war, and seized a fifth 903 00:28:41,386 --> 00:28:42,000 of that neighbor's territory, fear and shock rippled 904 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,622 of that neighbor's territory, fear and shock rippled 905 00:28:44,689 --> 00:28:46,024 throughout the region. 906 00:28:46,091 --> 00:28:48,000 We're not talking about Russia's invasion of Ukraine, 907 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,160 We're not talking about Russia's invasion of Ukraine, 908 00:28:49,227 --> 00:28:51,796 rather the small country of Georgia. 909 00:28:51,863 --> 00:28:54,000 That invasion was more than 15 years ago. 910 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:54,632 That invasion was more than 15 years ago. 911 00:28:54,699 --> 00:28:57,669 Vladimir Putin's playbook hasn't changed much. 912 00:28:57,735 --> 00:29:00,000 Today, Georgia, which shares a 556-mile border with Russia, 913 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,607 Today, Georgia, which shares a 556-mile border with Russia, 914 00:29:02,674 --> 00:29:05,777 is still trying to remove the grip of the Kremlin. 915 00:29:05,844 --> 00:29:06,000 Days after Russia invaded Ukraine, Georgia submitted 916 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,514 Days after Russia invaded Ukraine, Georgia submitted 917 00:29:09,581 --> 00:29:12,000 an application to become part of the European Union 918 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:12,584 an application to become part of the European Union 919 00:29:12,650 --> 00:29:16,855 with hopes of gaining a Western insurance policy to protect it. 920 00:29:16,921 --> 00:29:18,000 Last October, we met with the president of Georgia, Salome 921 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,758 Last October, we met with the president of Georgia, Salome 922 00:29:20,825 --> 00:29:21,926 Zourabichvili. 923 00:29:21,993 --> 00:29:24,000 The daughter of Georgian refugees raised in Paris, 924 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,063 The daughter of Georgian refugees raised in Paris, 925 00:29:25,130 --> 00:29:27,599 she says that Vladimir Putin has launched 926 00:29:27,665 --> 00:29:30,000 a quiet invasion of Georgia in an attempt 927 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:30,702 a quiet invasion of Georgia in an attempt 928 00:29:30,768 --> 00:29:33,505 to extend Russia's reach. 929 00:29:33,571 --> 00:29:36,000 The war in Ukraine is now moving into its third year. 930 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:37,876 The war in Ukraine is now moving into its third year. 931 00:29:37,942 --> 00:29:41,579 How is the war there impacting life here? 932 00:29:41,646 --> 00:29:42,000 It is, of course, a reminder of everything 933 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,083 It is, of course, a reminder of everything 934 00:29:45,150 --> 00:29:48,000 that this country has gone through and of the fact 935 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:49,287 that this country has gone through and of the fact 936 00:29:49,354 --> 00:29:54,000 that it's always an immediate danger and threat. 937 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:54,893 that it's always an immediate danger and threat. 938 00:29:54,959 --> 00:29:58,730 It's already a part of the reality 939 00:29:58,796 --> 00:30:00,000 that Russia is testing the ground. 940 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,199 that Russia is testing the ground. 941 00:30:01,266 --> 00:30:03,501 You think the Russians are testing the ground right now 942 00:30:03,568 --> 00:30:04,002 in Georgia? 943 00:30:04,068 --> 00:30:04,802 Right now. 944 00:30:04,869 --> 00:30:05,870 How so? 945 00:30:05,937 --> 00:30:06,000 Here, their way, their easy way, is the hybrid war. 946 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,808 Here, their way, their easy way, is the hybrid war. 947 00:30:10,875 --> 00:30:11,409 [MUSIC PLAYING] 948 00:30:11,476 --> 00:30:12,000 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] 949 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:12,644 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] 950 00:30:12,710 --> 00:30:15,914 A hybrid war that has included online and televised 951 00:30:15,980 --> 00:30:18,000 disinformation campaigns and anti-Western propaganda pumped 952 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,084 disinformation campaigns and anti-Western propaganda pumped 953 00:30:20,151 --> 00:30:20,685 into Georgia-- 954 00:30:20,752 --> 00:30:22,587 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] 955 00:30:22,654 --> 00:30:24,000 --a favorite tactic of the Kremlin. 956 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:24,589 --a favorite tactic of the Kremlin. 957 00:30:24,656 --> 00:30:26,758 Georgians have seen it before. 958 00:30:26,824 --> 00:30:29,460 In 2008, three weeks before Russia 959 00:30:29,527 --> 00:30:30,000 launched its first airstrike in Georgia, 960 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,796 launched its first airstrike in Georgia, 961 00:30:31,863 --> 00:30:35,533 Moscow hit the country with a series of cyber attacks. 962 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:36,000 The five-day bloody battle that followed 963 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,069 The five-day bloody battle that followed 964 00:30:38,136 --> 00:30:41,739 ended with Russia seizing 20% of Georgia's land. 965 00:30:41,806 --> 00:30:42,000 President Zourabichvili says the mostly 966 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,175 President Zourabichvili says the mostly 967 00:30:44,242 --> 00:30:47,612 muted international reaction to that war laid the groundwork 968 00:30:47,679 --> 00:30:48,000 for Russia's invasion of Ukraine and Vladimir Putin's plan 969 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,149 for Russia's invasion of Ukraine and Vladimir Putin's plan 970 00:30:51,216 --> 00:30:54,000 to bring former Soviet republics back into the Russian fold. 971 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:55,887 to bring former Soviet republics back into the Russian fold. 972 00:30:55,954 --> 00:30:59,524 Today, a fifth of Georgia is occupied by the Russian 973 00:30:59,591 --> 00:31:00,000 military, and an estimated 8,000 Russian troops are inside 974 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:04,362 military, and an estimated 8,000 Russian troops are inside 975 00:31:04,429 --> 00:31:06,000 the Georgian border. 976 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:06,197 the Georgian border. 977 00:31:06,264 --> 00:31:08,800 We traveled with Georgian security forces 978 00:31:08,866 --> 00:31:12,000 37 miles outside the capital of Tbilisi into the tiny village of 979 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,338 37 miles outside the capital of Tbilisi into the tiny village of 980 00:31:13,404 --> 00:31:14,272 [INAUDIBLE]. 981 00:31:14,339 --> 00:31:18,000 Today it is a rural no-man's land. 982 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:18,409 Today it is a rural no-man's land. 983 00:31:18,476 --> 00:31:21,079 Oh my. 984 00:31:21,145 --> 00:31:23,248 Across a rickety bridge, we found 985 00:31:23,314 --> 00:31:24,000 an abandoned stretch of farmland choked off by barbed wire. 986 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,218 an abandoned stretch of farmland choked off by barbed wire. 987 00:31:27,285 --> 00:31:29,721 Warning signs to stay out. 988 00:31:29,787 --> 00:31:30,000 Oh, there she is. 989 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,222 Oh, there she is. 990 00:31:31,289 --> 00:31:35,827 And a defiant 87-year-old Valya Veneshvili. 991 00:31:35,893 --> 00:31:36,000 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] 992 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,962 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] 993 00:31:38,029 --> 00:31:40,632 The Russians have told me, this is our land. 994 00:31:40,698 --> 00:31:41,966 And I said, no. 995 00:31:42,033 --> 00:31:43,234 Your land is in Russia. 996 00:31:43,301 --> 00:31:45,670 This is our land, not yours. 997 00:31:45,737 --> 00:31:47,972 You have no rights here. 998 00:31:48,039 --> 00:31:51,242 How long have you been surrounded by the barbed wire? 999 00:31:51,309 --> 00:31:52,977 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] 1000 00:31:53,044 --> 00:31:54,000 For 15 years. 1001 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:55,513 For 15 years. 1002 00:31:55,580 --> 00:31:58,816 In 2008, her land was seized by Russian troops. 1003 00:31:58,883 --> 00:32:00,000 The grandmother of four still refuses to surrender her home. 1004 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,854 The grandmother of four still refuses to surrender her home. 1005 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,000 Cut off from family, she relies on outsiders and a stick 1006 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:07,358 Cut off from family, she relies on outsiders and a stick 1007 00:32:07,425 --> 00:32:10,828 to deliver food and the medicine she needs. 1008 00:32:10,895 --> 00:32:12,000 She whispered to us that the Russians were watching us 1009 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,631 She whispered to us that the Russians were watching us 1010 00:32:13,698 --> 00:32:15,366 from over that hill. 1011 00:32:15,433 --> 00:32:17,068 Are you afraid of the Russians? 1012 00:32:17,135 --> 00:32:18,000 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] 1013 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:19,170 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] 1014 00:32:19,237 --> 00:32:22,640 Yes, I'm afraid of them. 1015 00:32:22,707 --> 00:32:24,000 What if they take me and detain me? 1016 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:24,776 What if they take me and detain me? 1017 00:32:24,842 --> 00:32:26,277 Nobody can help me. 1018 00:32:26,344 --> 00:32:27,145 I'm alone. 1019 00:32:27,211 --> 00:32:29,514 When it's only a couple of them, I can always 1020 00:32:29,580 --> 00:32:30,000 answer them and fight back. 1021 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,582 answer them and fight back. 1022 00:32:31,649 --> 00:32:36,000 But when it's a lot of them, there is nothing I can do. 1023 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:36,287 But when it's a lot of them, there is nothing I can do. 1024 00:32:36,354 --> 00:32:38,723 Georgia is bordered on the north by Russia, 1025 00:32:38,790 --> 00:32:42,000 the east by Azerbaijan, and the south by Armenia and Turkey. 1026 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:42,560 the east by Azerbaijan, and the south by Armenia and Turkey. 1027 00:32:42,627 --> 00:32:45,663 The bridge between the Black and Caspian Sea, 1028 00:32:45,730 --> 00:32:48,000 an important route for natural gas and oil. 1029 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:48,800 an important route for natural gas and oil. 1030 00:32:48,866 --> 00:32:50,301 High up in the mountains of Georgia, 1031 00:32:50,368 --> 00:32:54,000 we saw another reason the small country of nearly four million 1032 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:54,372 we saw another reason the small country of nearly four million 1033 00:32:54,439 --> 00:32:56,641 is crucial to the Kremlin. 1034 00:32:56,708 --> 00:33:00,000 A long line of trucks, many of them carrying European cargo 1035 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:00,345 A long line of trucks, many of them carrying European cargo 1036 00:33:00,411 --> 00:33:02,480 across the border into Russia. 1037 00:33:02,547 --> 00:33:05,249 United Nations data shows that since the war began, 1038 00:33:05,316 --> 00:33:06,000 everything from cars to chemicals 1039 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,185 everything from cars to chemicals 1040 00:33:07,251 --> 00:33:09,554 have rolled into Russia through Georgia, 1041 00:33:09,620 --> 00:33:12,000 some in violation of Western sanctions, 1042 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:12,490 some in violation of Western sanctions, 1043 00:33:12,557 --> 00:33:14,292 a lifeline for Putin's regime. 1044 00:33:14,359 --> 00:33:15,093 [HONKING] 1045 00:33:15,159 --> 00:33:18,000 There is traffic coming into Georgia too. 1046 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:18,363 There is traffic coming into Georgia too. 1047 00:33:18,429 --> 00:33:21,065 Thousands of Russian nationals entering the country 1048 00:33:21,132 --> 00:33:24,000 in cars and on foot, extending for miles and arriving in waves, 1049 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:25,536 in cars and on foot, extending for miles and arriving in waves, 1050 00:33:25,603 --> 00:33:28,940 first at the beginning of the Ukraine war in 2022, 1051 00:33:29,006 --> 00:33:30,000 and again later that year when fighting-age 1052 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,976 and again later that year when fighting-age 1053 00:33:32,043 --> 00:33:35,079 men fled Russia's mandated military service. 1054 00:33:35,146 --> 00:33:36,000 But some Georgians worry Putin loyalists 1055 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,548 But some Georgians worry Putin loyalists 1056 00:33:37,615 --> 00:33:39,884 could be entering the country too, 1057 00:33:39,951 --> 00:33:42,000 laying the groundwork for Russia's next move. 1058 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:42,687 laying the groundwork for Russia's next move. 1059 00:33:42,754 --> 00:33:43,654 [GUNSHOTS] 1060 00:33:43,721 --> 00:33:47,291 When Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine in 2022, 1061 00:33:47,358 --> 00:33:48,000 he said it was to, among other things, 1062 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,294 he said it was to, among other things, 1063 00:33:50,361 --> 00:33:52,597 protect the Russians living there. 1064 00:33:52,663 --> 00:33:54,000 President Zourabichvili fears Putin could launch 1065 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,566 President Zourabichvili fears Putin could launch 1066 00:33:55,633 --> 00:33:58,302 a similar campaign in Georgia. 1067 00:33:58,369 --> 00:34:00,000 Since the war, Georgia has become home to 100,000 Russians. 1068 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,775 Since the war, Georgia has become home to 100,000 Russians. 1069 00:34:03,841 --> 00:34:06,000 It's very unnerving when, in your own country, 1070 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:07,078 It's very unnerving when, in your own country, 1071 00:34:07,145 --> 00:34:11,082 you have people that are talking the language of the enemy 1072 00:34:11,149 --> 00:34:12,000 and that believe that they're at home. 1073 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,485 and that believe that they're at home. 1074 00:34:14,552 --> 00:34:16,521 The Russians believe that they are at home? 1075 00:34:16,587 --> 00:34:18,000 They are behaving and believing that they are very much at home. 1076 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,291 They are behaving and believing that they are very much at home. 1077 00:34:20,358 --> 00:34:22,827 So there is a fine line, and that line 1078 00:34:22,894 --> 00:34:24,000 has to be kept so that we do not have incidents 1079 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,164 has to be kept so that we do not have incidents 1080 00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:29,300 in the future that would allow Russia 1081 00:34:29,367 --> 00:34:30,000 to use their favored doctrine of protecting 1082 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,537 to use their favored doctrine of protecting 1083 00:34:32,603 --> 00:34:34,839 Russian-speaking citizens. 1084 00:34:34,906 --> 00:34:36,000 So why doesn't Georgia just say, no more Russians 1085 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,309 So why doesn't Georgia just say, no more Russians 1086 00:34:38,376 --> 00:34:39,076 through our border? 1087 00:34:39,143 --> 00:34:41,312 That is a question for the authorities. 1088 00:34:41,379 --> 00:34:42,000 Aren't you the authority? 1089 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:42,914 Aren't you the authority? 1090 00:34:42,980 --> 00:34:47,652 No, I don't have the executive powers, and unfortunately. 1091 00:34:47,718 --> 00:34:48,000 The executive power to control Georgia's border 1092 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,254 The executive power to control Georgia's border 1093 00:34:50,321 --> 00:34:52,423 was squarely in the hands of its Prime 1094 00:34:52,490 --> 00:34:54,000 Minister, Irakli Garibashvili. 1095 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:55,493 Minister, Irakli Garibashvili. 1096 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:56,594 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] 1097 00:34:56,661 --> 00:34:59,697 Publicly, he said that he supported the country's bid 1098 00:34:59,764 --> 00:35:00,000 to move away from neighboring Russia 1099 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,799 to move away from neighboring Russia 1100 00:35:01,866 --> 00:35:06,000 and join the European Union, but his actions and inactions 1101 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:06,337 and join the European Union, but his actions and inactions 1102 00:35:06,404 --> 00:35:08,339 told a different story. 1103 00:35:08,406 --> 00:35:11,709 Since the Ukraine invasion, Prime Minister Garibashvili 1104 00:35:11,776 --> 00:35:12,000 agreed to resume flights between Tbilisi and Moscow 1105 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,046 agreed to resume flights between Tbilisi and Moscow 1106 00:35:15,112 --> 00:35:17,515 for the first time in almost five years. 1107 00:35:17,582 --> 00:35:18,000 He's also failed to adopt strong sanctions against Russia. 1108 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,152 He's also failed to adopt strong sanctions against Russia. 1109 00:35:21,219 --> 00:35:23,521 Critics of the Prime Minister accuse him 1110 00:35:23,588 --> 00:35:24,000 of being in the pocket of a Georgian oligarch, Bidzina 1111 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,125 of being in the pocket of a Georgian oligarch, Bidzina 1112 00:35:27,191 --> 00:35:30,000 Ivanishvili, a billionaire who helped get him elected. 1113 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:30,828 Ivanishvili, a billionaire who helped get him elected. 1114 00:35:30,895 --> 00:35:34,999 The 67-year-old oligarch made his fortune in Russia and served 1115 00:35:35,066 --> 00:35:36,000 a brief stint as Georgia's Prime Minister. 1116 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:36,968 a brief stint as Georgia's Prime Minister. 1117 00:35:37,034 --> 00:35:37,735 [CHEERS, APPLAUSE] 1118 00:35:37,802 --> 00:35:41,239 His $50 million home looms over Tbilisi, a reminder 1119 00:35:41,305 --> 00:35:42,000 of his wealth and power. 1120 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:42,907 of his wealth and power. 1121 00:35:42,974 --> 00:35:47,111 In 2022, European lawmakers called for sanctions against 1122 00:35:47,178 --> 00:35:48,000 the oligarch for his, quote, "links to the Kremlin," 1123 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:49,847 the oligarch for his, quote, "links to the Kremlin," 1124 00:35:49,914 --> 00:35:53,384 a connection that could undermine Georgia's EU bid. 1125 00:35:53,451 --> 00:35:54,000 We're going in with a government that's completely corrupt, 1126 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,721 We're going in with a government that's completely corrupt, 1127 00:35:56,787 --> 00:36:00,000 a government that's pro-Russian, clearly anti-Western, clearly 1128 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,492 a government that's pro-Russian, clearly anti-Western, clearly 1129 00:36:01,559 --> 00:36:04,962 does not really care about what the majority of the population 1130 00:36:05,029 --> 00:36:06,000 wants and needs. 1131 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:06,464 wants and needs. 1132 00:36:06,531 --> 00:36:09,200 Anna Tavadze and Dachima Dadze are 1133 00:36:09,267 --> 00:36:10,501 members of the Shay movement-- 1134 00:36:10,568 --> 00:36:11,702 [CHEERS, APPLAUSE] 1135 00:36:11,769 --> 00:36:12,000 --a group with thousands of young followers 1136 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:13,938 --a group with thousands of young followers 1137 00:36:14,005 --> 00:36:17,241 working towards Georgia's entry into the European Union. 1138 00:36:17,308 --> 00:36:18,000 [SINGING IN NON-ENGLISH] 1139 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,210 [SINGING IN NON-ENGLISH] 1140 00:36:19,277 --> 00:36:23,748 If Russia wins, it means loss of freedom, loss of everything 1141 00:36:23,814 --> 00:36:24,000 that we fought for in the past 30 years basically. 1142 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,651 that we fought for in the past 30 years basically. 1143 00:36:26,717 --> 00:36:28,219 It's a fight for values. 1144 00:36:28,286 --> 00:36:30,000 It's a fight for where you want to stand 1145 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:30,454 It's a fight for where you want to stand 1146 00:36:30,521 --> 00:36:33,691 in this big fight for democracy. 1147 00:36:33,758 --> 00:36:36,000 As soon as West in any form, be it the US partnership, be it 1148 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,362 As soon as West in any form, be it the US partnership, be it 1149 00:36:38,429 --> 00:36:41,832 European Union is not represented in this country, 1150 00:36:41,899 --> 00:36:42,000 Russia will fill the void right away. 1151 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,235 Russia will fill the void right away. 1152 00:36:44,302 --> 00:36:44,869 [SHOUTING] 1153 00:36:44,936 --> 00:36:47,939 They say the influx of Russians is already 1154 00:36:48,005 --> 00:36:50,107 changing the face of Georgia. 1155 00:36:50,174 --> 00:36:51,676 What are they doing if we look at it? 1156 00:36:51,742 --> 00:36:52,777 They're buying apartments. 1157 00:36:52,843 --> 00:36:54,000 They're buying private property. 1158 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:54,378 They're buying private property. 1159 00:36:54,445 --> 00:36:57,448 They're opening up businesses. 1160 00:36:57,515 --> 00:37:00,000 Their actions changed Georgian economy. 1161 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:01,485 Their actions changed Georgian economy. 1162 00:37:01,552 --> 00:37:03,654 The Russians are buying apartments here 1163 00:37:03,721 --> 00:37:05,389 in every 33 minutes. 1164 00:37:05,456 --> 00:37:06,000 They're purchasing a piece of land in every 27 minutes. 1165 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,292 They're purchasing a piece of land in every 27 minutes. 1166 00:37:08,359 --> 00:37:12,000 And they're registering a business in every 26 minutes. 1167 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:12,263 And they're registering a business in every 26 minutes. 1168 00:37:12,330 --> 00:37:17,268 So I think we're on the brink of very dangerous situation 1169 00:37:17,335 --> 00:37:18,000 here in Georgia. 1170 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:18,769 here in Georgia. 1171 00:37:18,836 --> 00:37:21,839 According to public records, Russians have registered more 1172 00:37:21,906 --> 00:37:24,000 than 20,000 businesses in Georgia over the last two years 1173 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,277 than 20,000 businesses in Georgia over the last two years 1174 00:37:26,344 --> 00:37:29,280 and launched five new Russian-only schools, 1175 00:37:29,347 --> 00:37:30,000 none of which are licensed by Georgia's Department 1176 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:31,916 none of which are licensed by Georgia's Department 1177 00:37:31,983 --> 00:37:33,184 of Education. 1178 00:37:33,250 --> 00:37:36,000 Russians have driven rent up nearly 130%. 1179 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:37,154 Russians have driven rent up nearly 130%. 1180 00:37:37,221 --> 00:37:41,359 Prices for everything from food to cars have gone up 7%. 1181 00:37:41,425 --> 00:37:42,000 Over 100,000 Georgians have left the country because many of them 1182 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:46,097 Over 100,000 Georgians have left the country because many of them 1183 00:37:46,163 --> 00:37:48,000 can't afford to live here anymore. 1184 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:48,132 can't afford to live here anymore. 1185 00:37:48,199 --> 00:37:50,267 I've heard this described as a quiet invasion. 1186 00:37:50,334 --> 00:37:51,202 A quiet invasion, yeah. 1187 00:37:51,268 --> 00:37:54,000 There's a risk of the economic divergence. 1188 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:54,305 There's a risk of the economic divergence. 1189 00:37:54,372 --> 00:37:56,407 There's a risk of military intervention. 1190 00:37:56,474 --> 00:38:00,000 And there's a risk of Georgia's statehood being destroyed. 1191 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,413 And there's a risk of Georgia's statehood being destroyed. 1192 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,000 Emmanuel Lezhnev, George Sumurgulenko, and Pavel Bahkadov 1193 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:06,384 Emmanuel Lezhnev, George Sumurgulenko, and Pavel Bahkadov 1194 00:38:06,450 --> 00:38:08,686 don't look like much of a threat. 1195 00:38:08,753 --> 00:38:11,856 All Russians in their 20s, they fled their country for fear 1196 00:38:11,922 --> 00:38:12,000 of being drafted or imprisoned for speaking out against Putin. 1197 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,127 of being drafted or imprisoned for speaking out against Putin. 1198 00:38:16,193 --> 00:38:18,000 They now live in Georgia and work 1199 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:18,229 They now live in Georgia and work 1200 00:38:18,295 --> 00:38:20,598 at this Russian-owned comedy club in Tbilisi. 1201 00:38:20,665 --> 00:38:22,166 [LAUGHTER] 1202 00:38:22,233 --> 00:38:23,834 [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] 1203 00:38:23,901 --> 00:38:24,000 I tried, said, I'm against the war in Russia. 1204 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,138 I tried, said, I'm against the war in Russia. 1205 00:38:27,204 --> 00:38:30,000 I was beaten and after that gone to prison three times. 1206 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,309 I was beaten and after that gone to prison three times. 1207 00:38:32,376 --> 00:38:34,979 So three times you went to jail? 1208 00:38:35,046 --> 00:38:35,546 Yes. 1209 00:38:35,613 --> 00:38:36,000 Yes, three times. 1210 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:36,814 Yes, three times. 1211 00:38:36,881 --> 00:38:39,650 I believe and I know that Russians 1212 00:38:39,717 --> 00:38:41,419 actually against the war. 1213 00:38:41,485 --> 00:38:42,000 You think that most Russians are against the war? 1214 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:43,521 You think that most Russians are against the war? 1215 00:38:43,587 --> 00:38:44,855 Yeah, just scared. 1216 00:38:44,922 --> 00:38:45,690 Really scared. 1217 00:38:45,756 --> 00:38:47,858 Have any of you had any aggression towards you 1218 00:38:47,925 --> 00:38:48,000 because you're Russian? 1219 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:48,993 because you're Russian? 1220 00:38:49,060 --> 00:38:51,529 Actually, I have a big writing on the wall. 1221 00:38:51,595 --> 00:38:53,698 It is the biggest thing I see from my window. 1222 00:38:53,764 --> 00:38:54,000 Just big, Russians go home. 1223 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,000 Just big, Russians go home. 1224 00:38:56,067 --> 00:38:58,502 There is no subtlety in spray paint. 1225 00:38:58,569 --> 00:39:00,000 Anti-Russian graffiti blankets the city, 1226 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,305 Anti-Russian graffiti blankets the city, 1227 00:39:01,372 --> 00:39:03,574 along with support for Ukraine. 1228 00:39:03,641 --> 00:39:05,776 On crumbling walls, the Georgian flag 1229 00:39:05,843 --> 00:39:06,000 is joined with those of the European 1230 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:07,578 is joined with those of the European 1231 00:39:07,645 --> 00:39:10,014 Union, the US, and NATO. 1232 00:39:10,081 --> 00:39:12,000 Over 80% of the Georgian public backs entry into the EU, 1233 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,418 Over 80% of the Georgian public backs entry into the EU, 1234 00:39:14,485 --> 00:39:17,221 as does Georgian President Zourabichvili. 1235 00:39:17,288 --> 00:39:18,000 But her position has become increasingly ceremonial 1236 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,958 But her position has become increasingly ceremonial 1237 00:39:21,025 --> 00:39:24,000 as the country moves towards a parliamentary government. 1238 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:24,261 as the country moves towards a parliamentary government. 1239 00:39:24,328 --> 00:39:26,731 After she went to Europe to try and pave 1240 00:39:26,797 --> 00:39:30,000 the way for Georgia's EU bid, Prime Minister Irakli 1241 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:30,201 the way for Georgia's EU bid, Prime Minister Irakli 1242 00:39:30,267 --> 00:39:34,171 Garibashvili accused her of violating the constitution, 1243 00:39:34,238 --> 00:39:36,000 banned her from traveling to Europe, 1244 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:36,273 banned her from traveling to Europe, 1245 00:39:36,340 --> 00:39:39,143 and tried but failed to impeach her. 1246 00:39:39,210 --> 00:39:41,779 President Zourabichvili has defiantly 1247 00:39:41,846 --> 00:39:42,000 continued to fly to Europe to meet 1248 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:43,781 continued to fly to Europe to meet 1249 00:39:43,848 --> 00:39:46,016 with leaders on her own dime. 1250 00:39:46,083 --> 00:39:48,000 It doesn't seem like the Prime Minister is 1251 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:48,352 It doesn't seem like the Prime Minister is 1252 00:39:48,419 --> 00:39:51,522 interested in joining the EU. 1253 00:39:51,589 --> 00:39:54,000 Well, that's a question that the whole population is asking, 1254 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:55,226 Well, that's a question that the whole population is asking, 1255 00:39:55,292 --> 00:39:58,796 whether they really want it or whether it's lip service. 1256 00:39:58,863 --> 00:40:00,000 This is a critical time. 1257 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:01,232 This is a critical time. 1258 00:40:01,298 --> 00:40:04,468 Do you feel like the West, particularly the US, 1259 00:40:04,535 --> 00:40:06,000 has been responsive enough and supportive enough of Georgia 1260 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,607 has been responsive enough and supportive enough of Georgia 1261 00:40:09,673 --> 00:40:11,709 in this moment? 1262 00:40:11,776 --> 00:40:12,000 I don't think so. 1263 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,477 I don't think so. 1264 00:40:13,544 --> 00:40:16,947 And I would take one concrete example. 1265 00:40:17,014 --> 00:40:18,000 I've been a president now for five years, 1266 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,117 I've been a president now for five years, 1267 00:40:20,184 --> 00:40:24,000 and I've not managed to have any form of meeting 1268 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,256 and I've not managed to have any form of meeting 1269 00:40:25,322 --> 00:40:30,000 at my level, which be the president or the vice president, 1270 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:30,628 at my level, which be the president or the vice president, 1271 00:40:30,694 --> 00:40:32,530 even through a phone call. 1272 00:40:32,596 --> 00:40:36,000 I understand that there are more urgent issues, 1273 00:40:36,066 --> 00:40:40,337 but I think that some more public recognition is needed. 1274 00:40:40,404 --> 00:40:41,472 Recognition of? 1275 00:40:41,539 --> 00:40:42,000 Of the fact that the United States 1276 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,374 Of the fact that the United States 1277 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:48,000 is supporting our candidate status within the European 1278 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:48,078 is supporting our candidate status within the European 1279 00:40:48,145 --> 00:40:48,579 Union. 1280 00:40:48,646 --> 00:40:52,149 I know that that is the language that the US has 1281 00:40:52,216 --> 00:40:54,000 with our European partners, but that being repeated 1282 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:55,286 with our European partners, but that being repeated 1283 00:40:55,352 --> 00:40:59,523 by at the highest level would be meaningful 1284 00:40:59,590 --> 00:41:00,000 for the Georgian population. 1285 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,092 for the Georgian population. 1286 00:41:02,159 --> 00:41:05,329 The EU has laid out a list of requirements for Georgia 1287 00:41:05,396 --> 00:41:06,000 to become a full member. 1288 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,231 to become a full member. 1289 00:41:07,298 --> 00:41:10,935 The conditions include tackling corruption and lessening 1290 00:41:11,001 --> 00:41:12,000 the economic and political influence of domestic oligarchs. 1291 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,839 the economic and political influence of domestic oligarchs. 1292 00:41:14,905 --> 00:41:17,508 Membership is not guaranteed. 1293 00:41:17,575 --> 00:41:18,000 What happens to Georgia if the EU denies the bid? 1294 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:22,079 What happens to Georgia if the EU denies the bid? 1295 00:41:22,146 --> 00:41:24,000 It would be a big victory for Russia. 1296 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:25,549 It would be a big victory for Russia. 1297 00:41:25,616 --> 00:41:26,283 [COCK CROWS] 1298 00:41:26,350 --> 00:41:29,954 A victory Valya Vanashvili refuses to give them. 1299 00:41:30,020 --> 00:41:33,057 87 years old, she says she is holding her ground 1300 00:41:33,123 --> 00:41:35,392 for herself and for Georgia. 1301 00:41:38,162 --> 00:41:40,898 That bid may be in further jeopardy. 1302 00:41:40,965 --> 00:41:42,000 This past February, the Georgian parliament 1303 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:43,334 This past February, the Georgian parliament 1304 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,937 appointed a new prime minister, an anti-Western member 1305 00:41:47,004 --> 00:41:48,000 of the Russian-leading Georgian Dream party. 1306 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:49,506 of the Russian-leading Georgian Dream party. 1307 00:41:49,573 --> 00:41:52,977 In May, his government passed a foreign agents law 1308 00:41:53,043 --> 00:41:54,000 which threatens to silence media outlets and NGOs inside Georgia. 1309 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,115 which threatens to silence media outlets and NGOs inside Georgia. 1310 00:41:58,182 --> 00:42:00,000 And just this past week, his party 1311 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:00,150 And just this past week, his party 1312 00:42:00,217 --> 00:42:03,687 proposed legislation that would strip same-sex couples 1313 00:42:03,754 --> 00:42:04,822 of their rights. 1314 00:42:04,889 --> 00:42:06,000 Both moves, the EU has said, could seriously 1315 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:07,958 Both moves, the EU has said, could seriously 1316 00:42:08,025 --> 00:42:10,527 compromise the country's chance for membership 1317 00:42:10,594 --> 00:42:12,000 and pull Georgia deeper into Russia's orbit. 1318 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,131 and pull Georgia deeper into Russia's orbit. 1319 00:42:14,198 --> 00:42:16,700 [TICKING] 1320 00:42:20,170 --> 00:42:21,605 [TICKING] 1321 00:42:21,672 --> 00:42:22,806 I'm Scott Pelley. 1322 00:42:22,873 --> 00:42:24,000 We'll be back next week with another edition of 60 Minutes. 1323 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,510 We'll be back next week with another edition of 60 Minutes. 1324 00:42:26,577 --> 00:42:28,078 [TICKING] 1325 00:43:08,285 --> 00:43:11,055 [AUDIO LOGO]