1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,091 [CLOCK TICKING] 2 00:00:06,060 --> 00:00:09,072 CECILIA VEGA: Drive 350 miles from the nation's capital 3 00:00:09,072 --> 00:00:13,060 to McDowell County, West Virginia, where affordability 4 00:00:13,060 --> 00:00:17,072 is the difference between buying groceries and heating a home. 5 00:00:17,072 --> 00:00:20,088 Clean drinking water is hard to come by here. 6 00:00:20,088 --> 00:00:23,084 A turn of the tap can look like this. 7 00:00:23,084 --> 00:00:26,060 This shouldn't be the case anywhere in the world, 8 00:00:26,060 --> 00:00:31,002 let alone in the wealthiest nation in the world. 9 00:00:31,002 --> 00:00:32,082 [CLOCK TICKING] 10 00:00:34,011 --> 00:00:36,032 ANDERSON COOPER: There is one group of refugees being 11 00:00:36,032 --> 00:00:38,032 welcomed to the United States. 12 00:00:38,032 --> 00:00:41,044 President Trump says white farmers from South Africa 13 00:00:41,044 --> 00:00:43,064 are victims of a genocide. 14 00:00:43,064 --> 00:00:47,060 These are burial sites right here. 15 00:00:47,060 --> 00:00:50,000 Burial sites. 16 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:54,057 Over a thousand of white farmers. 17 00:00:54,057 --> 00:00:56,024 ANDERSON COOPER: We went to South Africa 18 00:00:56,024 --> 00:00:58,008 to see for ourselves. 19 00:00:58,008 --> 00:01:00,063 It definitely wasn't a burial site. 20 00:01:00,063 --> 00:01:03,043 Those crosses were there for less than 48 hours. 21 00:01:03,043 --> 00:01:04,099 [CLOCK TICKING] 22 00:01:05,049 --> 00:01:07,037 SHARYN ALFONSI: Refik Anadol invited us 23 00:01:07,037 --> 00:01:10,053 inside this space at his LA studio. 24 00:01:10,053 --> 00:01:13,041 Every image that surrounds us, Anadol 25 00:01:13,041 --> 00:01:16,029 created using artificial intelligence. 26 00:01:16,029 --> 00:01:17,065 So those are not real birds? 27 00:01:17,065 --> 00:01:18,037 Nope. 28 00:01:18,037 --> 00:01:19,085 SHARYN ALFONSI: Take it in. 29 00:01:19,085 --> 00:01:20,075 Whoa. 30 00:01:20,075 --> 00:01:23,065 A hypnotic flow of shapes and colors 31 00:01:23,065 --> 00:01:26,059 that can make you feel like Alice in Wonderland 32 00:01:26,059 --> 00:01:29,045 stumbled into Studio 54. 33 00:01:29,045 --> 00:01:31,097 Is this a party trick? 34 00:01:31,097 --> 00:01:33,029 REFIK ANADOL: I don't think so. 35 00:01:33,029 --> 00:01:35,005 I feel like it's a new form of art. 36 00:01:35,005 --> 00:01:36,055 [CLOCK TICKING] 37 00:01:37,005 --> 00:01:38,061 I'm Lesley Stahl. 38 00:01:38,061 --> 00:01:39,093 I'm Scott Pelley. 39 00:01:39,093 --> 00:01:41,023 I'm Bill Whitaker. 40 00:01:41,023 --> 00:01:42,037 I'm Anderson Cooper. 41 00:01:42,037 --> 00:01:43,097 I'm Sharyn Alfonsi. 42 00:01:43,097 --> 00:01:45,039 I'm Jon Wertheim. 43 00:01:45,039 --> 00:01:46,093 I'm Cecilia Vega. 44 00:01:46,093 --> 00:01:49,039 Those stories, and in our last minute, 45 00:01:49,039 --> 00:01:52,055 a hockey great reflects on America's goals, 46 00:01:52,055 --> 00:01:54,039 tonight on 60 Minutes. 47 00:01:54,039 --> 00:01:56,037 [CLOCK TICKING] 48 00:02:02,030 --> 00:02:04,078 For some, these are the boom times. 49 00:02:04,078 --> 00:02:06,076 401(k)s are surging. 50 00:02:06,076 --> 00:02:09,078 The stock market has hit an all-time high. 51 00:02:09,078 --> 00:02:13,078 But drive just 350 miles from the nation's capital, 52 00:02:13,078 --> 00:02:16,088 and the conversation isn't about how to get rich, 53 00:02:16,088 --> 00:02:18,062 but how to survive. 54 00:02:18,062 --> 00:02:22,006 McDowell County, West Virginia, was once the nation's largest 55 00:02:22,006 --> 00:02:23,046 coal producer. 56 00:02:23,046 --> 00:02:26,094 It is now one of the poorest places in the country, where 57 00:02:26,094 --> 00:02:30,090 the food stamp program started and later the opioid crisis 58 00:02:30,090 --> 00:02:32,026 took hold. 59 00:02:32,026 --> 00:02:34,046 Today, one in three households there 60 00:02:34,046 --> 00:02:36,058 depends on those food stamps. 61 00:02:36,058 --> 00:02:39,086 And now the program that has fed families for decades 62 00:02:39,086 --> 00:02:43,002 is facing the largest cuts in history. 63 00:02:43,002 --> 00:02:45,058 We went to McDowell County last month 64 00:02:45,058 --> 00:02:49,006 and learned that this is an all-too-familiar pattern. 65 00:02:49,006 --> 00:02:51,030 Government help comes and goes. 66 00:02:51,030 --> 00:02:58,044 Promises are made and broken, and the people are left behind. 67 00:02:58,044 --> 00:03:01,040 McDowell County sits deep in the southern coalfields 68 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:05,032 of West Virginia, stretching more than 500 square miles 69 00:03:05,032 --> 00:03:07,076 across the Appalachian Mountains. 70 00:03:07,076 --> 00:03:10,048 There's just one traffic light and more churches 71 00:03:10,048 --> 00:03:12,012 than we could count. 72 00:03:12,012 --> 00:03:13,084 It's a place where clean drinking 73 00:03:13,084 --> 00:03:16,004 water is hard to come by. 74 00:03:16,004 --> 00:03:19,012 A turn of the tap can look like 75 00:03:19,012 --> 00:03:24,032 I think if you would ask probably 9 out of 10 individuals 76 00:03:24,032 --> 00:03:27,087 here, they would tell you that they feel very much forgotten. 77 00:03:27,087 --> 00:03:28,074 CECILIA VEGA: By who? 78 00:03:28,074 --> 00:03:29,084 Everybody. 79 00:03:29,084 --> 00:03:32,012 The government, every institution 80 00:03:32,012 --> 00:03:33,040 that you can think of. 81 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:34,094 So tell me about the congregation-- 82 00:03:34,094 --> 00:03:37,032 Pastor Brad Davis grew up in the coal fields 83 00:03:37,032 --> 00:03:40,092 just over the county line and now leads congregations 84 00:03:40,092 --> 00:03:44,028 at five United Methodist churches in McDowell. 85 00:03:44,028 --> 00:03:48,054 He spends his days listening to those who trust God, each other, 86 00:03:48,054 --> 00:03:50,010 and not much else. 87 00:03:50,010 --> 00:03:52,014 I've heard directly people say, well, 88 00:03:52,014 --> 00:03:54,005 why don't people just move? 89 00:03:54,005 --> 00:03:57,053 And my response to that is, why should we? 90 00:03:57,053 --> 00:03:59,053 Why should we have to move? 91 00:03:59,053 --> 00:04:01,001 This is home. 92 00:04:01,001 --> 00:04:02,090 BETTY STEPP: Now we're coming into Anawalt. 93 00:04:02,090 --> 00:04:03,065 Home sweet home. 94 00:04:03,065 --> 00:04:04,085 Home. 95 00:04:04,085 --> 00:04:07,053 CECILIA VEGA: Betty Stepp has lived in the town of Anawalt 96 00:04:07,053 --> 00:04:10,014 for all of her 76 years-- 97 00:04:10,014 --> 00:04:11,031 BETTY STEPP: There's Jackie. 98 00:04:11,031 --> 00:04:12,060 Everybody honks at everybody? 99 00:04:12,060 --> 00:04:14,061 --long enough to remember when there was still 100 00:04:14,061 --> 00:04:17,073 a school, a theater, and a doctor. 101 00:04:17,073 --> 00:04:20,051 If you run out of milk, you go to drive how far? 102 00:04:20,051 --> 00:04:22,035 45 minutes. 103 00:04:22,035 --> 00:04:23,033 Two mountains. 104 00:04:23,033 --> 00:04:25,033 CECILIA VEGA: That's if you can afford a car. 105 00:04:25,033 --> 00:04:27,027 Many here can't yet. 106 00:04:27,027 --> 00:04:29,053 The only business left in town-- 107 00:04:29,053 --> 00:04:31,057 We'll be on our best behavior. 108 00:04:31,057 --> 00:04:34,001 CECILIA VEGA: --Tom and Donald's mechanic shop. 109 00:04:34,001 --> 00:04:35,024 BETTY STEPP: This is Tom. 110 00:04:35,024 --> 00:04:36,007 Hi, how you doing? 111 00:04:36,007 --> 00:04:36,086 This is Donald. 112 00:04:36,086 --> 00:04:38,019 CECILIA VEGA: The famous Donald. 113 00:04:38,019 --> 00:04:43,063 Donald and Tom are beloved by all the widows in this area. 114 00:04:43,063 --> 00:04:44,029 [LAUGHTER] 115 00:04:44,029 --> 00:04:46,037 CECILIA VEGA: A retired teacher's aide, Betty 116 00:04:46,037 --> 00:04:49,021 and her husband live on a fixed income. 117 00:04:49,021 --> 00:04:52,036 These days, everything feels expensive. 118 00:04:52,036 --> 00:04:54,006 If I go to the grocery store, I 119 00:04:54,006 --> 00:04:57,026 can't get out of there in less than $200. 120 00:04:57,026 --> 00:05:00,010 And that's a week. 121 00:05:00,010 --> 00:05:03,030 Sometimes it's $300. 122 00:05:03,030 --> 00:05:05,026 Groceries are really high. 123 00:05:05,026 --> 00:05:08,010 What have you had to cut back on in these times? 124 00:05:08,010 --> 00:05:09,062 Beef for sure. 125 00:05:09,062 --> 00:05:15,074 I cut back on chicken, vegetables. 126 00:05:15,074 --> 00:05:17,006 CECILIA VEGA: She's not alone. 127 00:05:17,006 --> 00:05:20,022 Across the country, families are feeling the squeeze. 128 00:05:20,022 --> 00:05:25,048 Food prices are almost 20% higher today than in 2022. 129 00:05:25,048 --> 00:05:28,017 I've heard a lot of folks from this community say, 130 00:05:28,017 --> 00:05:30,046 if we don't help each other, no one's going to help us. 131 00:05:30,046 --> 00:05:32,000 No one's going to come and save us. 132 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:33,006 We save each other. 133 00:05:33,006 --> 00:05:35,054 CECILIA VEGA: Linda McKinney runs the county's largest food 134 00:05:35,054 --> 00:05:36,000 bank-- 135 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,058 You're allowed to come once a month. 136 00:05:37,058 --> 00:05:41,018 CECILIA VEGA: --entirely on donations and volunteers. 137 00:05:41,018 --> 00:05:43,088 Since the government shut down this past fall, 138 00:05:43,088 --> 00:05:45,078 when Americans around the country 139 00:05:45,078 --> 00:05:49,006 lost SNAP benefits or food stamps for weeks, 140 00:05:49,006 --> 00:05:52,039 Linda says more new faces have been coming in. 141 00:05:52,039 --> 00:05:54,085 Lately, we have a lot of young mothers that come, 142 00:05:54,085 --> 00:05:56,093 and they'll say, I never thought I'd have to come. 143 00:05:56,093 --> 00:06:00,067 And the children is what breaks my heart. 144 00:06:00,067 --> 00:06:02,075 They didn't ask to be brought into this situation, 145 00:06:02,075 --> 00:06:05,007 and they suffer daily. 146 00:06:05,007 --> 00:06:07,043 CECILIA VEGA: Every weekend, more than 100 children 147 00:06:07,043 --> 00:06:09,079 receive backpacks filled with food 148 00:06:09,079 --> 00:06:13,027 so they have something to eat when they're not in school. 149 00:06:13,027 --> 00:06:15,089 The thing that we're finding, we have parents that say, well, 150 00:06:15,089 --> 00:06:18,053 my kid didn't get a snack bag. 151 00:06:18,053 --> 00:06:20,035 And then you find out the child on Friday 152 00:06:20,035 --> 00:06:21,077 is eating that food on the bus. 153 00:06:21,077 --> 00:06:22,045 They're hungry. 154 00:06:22,045 --> 00:06:23,095 They're so hungry, the food that's 155 00:06:23,095 --> 00:06:25,025 supposed to last them through the weekend, 156 00:06:25,025 --> 00:06:26,033 they're eating on the bus? 157 00:06:26,033 --> 00:06:27,055 They're eating on the bus. 158 00:06:27,055 --> 00:06:29,095 CECILIA VEGA: It's a tale of two economies. 159 00:06:29,095 --> 00:06:33,047 At the White House, you'll hear about job growth and victory 160 00:06:33,047 --> 00:06:34,093 over inflation. 161 00:06:34,093 --> 00:06:40,007 We just had fantastic reports on inflation way down. 162 00:06:40,007 --> 00:06:43,015 CECILIA VEGA: But in McDowell, the median household income is 163 00:06:43,015 --> 00:06:45,037 about $30,000. 164 00:06:45,037 --> 00:06:47,097 Affordability isn't a buzzword here. 165 00:06:47,097 --> 00:06:50,097 It's the difference between buying groceries or paying 166 00:06:50,097 --> 00:06:52,021 for heat. 167 00:06:52,021 --> 00:06:56,089 In the 1940s, McDowell County was rich in coal jobs. 168 00:06:56,089 --> 00:06:59,053 These mines powered America, helping 169 00:06:59,053 --> 00:07:02,009 to build railroads and cities. 170 00:07:02,009 --> 00:07:06,021 At its peak, nearly 100,000 people lived here, 171 00:07:06,021 --> 00:07:10,021 earning some of the nation's highest hourly wages. 172 00:07:10,021 --> 00:07:13,077 But as machines moved in, mining jobs dwindled, 173 00:07:13,077 --> 00:07:16,011 and the local economy collapsed. 174 00:07:16,011 --> 00:07:20,017 In 1960, John F. Kennedy campaigned for president here. 175 00:07:20,017 --> 00:07:22,017 I think there are at least four or five things 176 00:07:22,017 --> 00:07:23,065 the government can do. 177 00:07:23,065 --> 00:07:25,029 CECILIA VEGA: The poverty he witnessed 178 00:07:25,029 --> 00:07:28,053 led him to launch the modern food stamp program. 179 00:07:28,053 --> 00:07:32,005 McDowell County residents were the first recipients. 180 00:07:32,005 --> 00:07:35,073 Today in McDowell, there are fewer than a thousand coal jobs 181 00:07:35,073 --> 00:07:39,049 left, and only 17,000 people remain. 182 00:07:39,049 --> 00:07:40,051 We lack so much. 183 00:07:40,051 --> 00:07:43,037 We lack jobs. 184 00:07:43,037 --> 00:07:48,024 Just in the county alone, there is not enough jobs for everyone. 185 00:07:48,024 --> 00:07:50,026 CECILIA VEGA: 26-year-old Tabitha Collins was 186 00:07:50,026 --> 00:07:53,058 a stay-at-home mom until her fiancé was hit by a car 187 00:07:53,058 --> 00:07:56,062 on the job last year and left disabled. 188 00:07:56,062 --> 00:07:58,058 And how often are you here? 189 00:07:58,058 --> 00:08:00,030 I'm here five days a week. 190 00:08:00,030 --> 00:08:02,098 CECILIA VEGA: She works at a local nonprofit, Big Creek 191 00:08:02,098 --> 00:08:05,074 People in Action, and is the sole income 192 00:08:05,074 --> 00:08:07,098 earner for her family of six. 193 00:08:07,098 --> 00:08:10,016 Along with caring for their toddler, 194 00:08:10,016 --> 00:08:14,038 she's also helping to raise her fiancé's three younger siblings. 195 00:08:14,038 --> 00:08:20,038 It's up to you to raise these kids in a decent manner 196 00:08:20,038 --> 00:08:24,066 and try to teach them about the drug epidemic 197 00:08:24,066 --> 00:08:28,010 and how it can affect others. 198 00:08:28,010 --> 00:08:30,074 Because that's a lot of what we struggle with. 199 00:08:30,074 --> 00:08:33,036 CECILIA VEGA: In a county ravaged by opioids, 200 00:08:33,036 --> 00:08:35,008 it's a common story. 201 00:08:35,008 --> 00:08:37,082 The epidemic claimed a generation of parents, 202 00:08:37,082 --> 00:08:40,026 leaving family members like Tabitha 203 00:08:40,026 --> 00:08:42,062 raising more children on less. 204 00:08:42,062 --> 00:08:46,015 Even with food stamps, she often comes up short. 205 00:08:46,015 --> 00:08:49,039 We still struggle food-wise. 206 00:08:49,039 --> 00:08:53,043 I still have to take a lot out of my payday, which therefore 207 00:08:53,043 --> 00:08:55,043 doesn't go towards bills. 208 00:08:55,043 --> 00:08:58,063 And in the wintertime, our power is very high. 209 00:08:58,063 --> 00:09:00,019 You're living paycheck to paycheck? 210 00:09:00,019 --> 00:09:00,099 Yes. 211 00:09:00,099 --> 00:09:04,017 And when you say the electrical bills were high, 212 00:09:04,017 --> 00:09:05,071 how high are we talking? 213 00:09:05,071 --> 00:09:10,089 In the month of December, my electrical bill was $480. 214 00:09:10,089 --> 00:09:12,041 You got a shut-off notice? 215 00:09:12,041 --> 00:09:13,097 We sure did. 216 00:09:13,097 --> 00:09:15,037 It was scary. 217 00:09:15,037 --> 00:09:20,055 I was trying to figure out which bill is more important. 218 00:09:20,055 --> 00:09:22,071 And it comes down to that. 219 00:09:22,071 --> 00:09:25,069 CECILIA VEGA: That choice is about to become more difficult. 220 00:09:25,069 --> 00:09:28,039 SNAP and Medicaid benefits are facing the biggest 221 00:09:28,039 --> 00:09:32,035 federal funding cuts in history, more than a trillion dollars 222 00:09:32,035 --> 00:09:34,067 over the next decade, as a result 223 00:09:34,067 --> 00:09:37,039 of President Trump's sweeping domestic policy 224 00:09:37,039 --> 00:09:39,039 bill passed last year. 225 00:09:39,039 --> 00:09:42,074 It will be up to states to pick up more of the costs, 226 00:09:42,074 --> 00:09:46,012 and recipients will face stricter work requirements. 227 00:09:46,012 --> 00:09:48,052 Tens of thousands of West Virginians 228 00:09:48,052 --> 00:09:50,042 will likely lose benefits. 229 00:09:50,042 --> 00:09:53,030 We rely on the benefits very much. 230 00:09:53,030 --> 00:09:56,012 And it's not because we're taking 231 00:09:56,012 --> 00:09:58,044 advantage of the government. 232 00:09:58,044 --> 00:10:01,078 It's because we actually need these things. 233 00:10:01,078 --> 00:10:05,068 I wonder if you think that that's what the perception is 234 00:10:05,068 --> 00:10:07,014 that some people have. 235 00:10:07,014 --> 00:10:10,076 I do, but I don't believe that. 236 00:10:10,076 --> 00:10:12,044 A lot of us are working citizens, 237 00:10:12,044 --> 00:10:16,095 and we're still barely making it by. 238 00:10:16,095 --> 00:10:18,032 CECILIA VEGA: Outsiders are often 239 00:10:18,032 --> 00:10:21,008 quick to assume this is Trump country, 240 00:10:21,008 --> 00:10:24,060 but politics here defy easy labels. 241 00:10:24,060 --> 00:10:27,036 For decades, McDowell voted blue, 242 00:10:27,036 --> 00:10:32,036 backing Barack Obama in 2008 and Bernie Sanders in the 2016 243 00:10:32,036 --> 00:10:34,032 presidential primary. 244 00:10:34,032 --> 00:10:37,000 In the last three elections, President Trump 245 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,045 won the county, which had the lowest voter 246 00:10:39,045 --> 00:10:41,071 participation in the state. 247 00:10:41,071 --> 00:10:47,065 I think we as a community, collectively, 248 00:10:47,065 --> 00:10:53,037 are so desperate to see some sort of change 249 00:10:53,037 --> 00:10:57,011 that when someone comes along and says, 250 00:10:57,011 --> 00:11:00,085 I'm going to make coal great again, we desperately cling 251 00:11:00,085 --> 00:11:02,089 to that with a death grip. 252 00:11:02,089 --> 00:11:06,061 And I think that goes a long way in explaining 253 00:11:06,061 --> 00:11:11,083 why the political climate here has shifted the way it has. 254 00:11:11,083 --> 00:11:13,015 To show our appreciation-- 255 00:11:13,015 --> 00:11:14,053 CECILIA VEGA: Earlier this month, 256 00:11:14,053 --> 00:11:18,015 coal executives and miners handed President Trump a trophy, 257 00:11:18,015 --> 00:11:21,005 declaring him the, quote, "undisputed champion 258 00:11:21,005 --> 00:11:25,045 of beautiful clean coal" after his latest executive order aimed 259 00:11:25,045 --> 00:11:27,089 at boosting the coal industry. 260 00:11:27,089 --> 00:11:32,011 In McDowell, whether from the White House or the State House, 261 00:11:32,011 --> 00:11:33,089 they've heard it all before. 262 00:11:33,089 --> 00:11:37,095 What are the promises that have been made and not kept? 263 00:11:37,095 --> 00:11:43,007 Economic resurgence, renaissance 264 00:11:43,007 --> 00:11:47,037 of the coal industry, the elimination of poverty, 265 00:11:47,037 --> 00:11:49,057 fixing our water systems. 266 00:11:49,057 --> 00:11:50,053 Big promises. 267 00:11:50,053 --> 00:11:53,085 Big promises, and nothing ever changes. 268 00:11:53,085 --> 00:11:55,035 CECILIA VEGA: Nowhere is the failure 269 00:11:55,035 --> 00:11:59,047 of government more clear than in the county's water supply, 270 00:11:59,047 --> 00:12:02,019 which at times is not clear at all. 271 00:12:02,019 --> 00:12:04,091 Few trust that it's safe enough to drink, 272 00:12:04,091 --> 00:12:07,095 and angry residents have documented the black and brown 273 00:12:07,095 --> 00:12:11,023 that oozes from aging pipes and contamination 274 00:12:11,023 --> 00:12:13,087 left behind from the coal industry. 275 00:12:13,087 --> 00:12:18,047 West Virginia's governor recently set aside $8.3 million 276 00:12:18,047 --> 00:12:21,071 in federal funds to upgrade sewage and water lines 277 00:12:21,071 --> 00:12:24,007 in McDowell, a drop in the bucket 278 00:12:24,007 --> 00:12:25,075 compared to what county and state 279 00:12:25,075 --> 00:12:28,023 officials say is still needed. 280 00:12:28,023 --> 00:12:30,081 This is tap water. 281 00:12:30,081 --> 00:12:32,093 CECILIA VEGA: When Pastor Brad isn't in church, 282 00:12:32,093 --> 00:12:36,036 he's often pleading with politicians to do more. 283 00:12:36,036 --> 00:12:38,000 You see this as a public health crisis. 284 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:38,096 BRAD DAVIS: Absolutely. 285 00:12:38,096 --> 00:12:40,088 There are people in parts of this County 286 00:12:40,088 --> 00:12:44,068 who haven't taken a hot shower in six years 287 00:12:44,068 --> 00:12:48,008 or longer because the fumes from the water 288 00:12:48,008 --> 00:12:50,032 makes them physically ill. 289 00:12:50,032 --> 00:12:52,048 CECILIA VEGA: Reports of skin rashes and burns 290 00:12:52,048 --> 00:12:54,004 are not uncommon. 291 00:12:54,004 --> 00:12:59,020 Many families spend upwards of $150 a month for bottled water 292 00:12:59,020 --> 00:13:01,040 on top of their water bills. 293 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:06,024 It's a luxury not everyone can afford. 294 00:13:06,024 --> 00:13:09,084 So they fill up here at this old mine shaft shooting water 295 00:13:09,084 --> 00:13:12,008 from the side of a mountain. 296 00:13:12,008 --> 00:13:14,036 I think it's going to be hard for a lot of folks 297 00:13:14,036 --> 00:13:15,070 to get their mind around that. 298 00:13:15,070 --> 00:13:18,092 You've got American citizens getting a ride 299 00:13:18,092 --> 00:13:20,088 to a spring on the side of the road 300 00:13:20,088 --> 00:13:22,084 to bring a jug to fill up because that's 301 00:13:22,084 --> 00:13:24,022 their only access to water. 302 00:13:24,022 --> 00:13:25,092 And it should be hard for people 303 00:13:25,092 --> 00:13:28,044 to wrap their minds around, because this 304 00:13:28,044 --> 00:13:30,024 shouldn't be the case. 305 00:13:30,024 --> 00:13:32,086 This shouldn't be the case anywhere in the world, 306 00:13:32,086 --> 00:13:37,021 let alone in the wealthiest nation in the world. 307 00:13:37,021 --> 00:13:39,025 CECILIA VEGA: To ease the burden, 308 00:13:39,025 --> 00:13:43,081 Betty Stepp and other retirees, the youngest of whom is 70, 309 00:13:43,081 --> 00:13:46,089 go door to door, delivering heavy cases of water 310 00:13:46,089 --> 00:13:48,033 to neighbors. 311 00:13:48,033 --> 00:13:53,013 I think our government needs to hear us. 312 00:13:53,013 --> 00:13:56,041 We've worked our whole life here. 313 00:13:56,041 --> 00:13:58,001 Why won't they help us? 314 00:13:58,001 --> 00:14:00,021 Does it matter who's in charge? 315 00:14:00,021 --> 00:14:03,053 It doesn't matter if it's Republicans or Democrats. 316 00:14:03,053 --> 00:14:05,053 It doesn't matter. 317 00:14:05,053 --> 00:14:07,007 CECILIA VEGA: In McDowell County, 318 00:14:07,007 --> 00:14:11,033 people face two choices-- stay and scrape by, or scrape 319 00:14:11,033 --> 00:14:13,089 together enough money to leave. 320 00:14:13,089 --> 00:14:16,037 Tabitha Collins is staying. 321 00:14:16,037 --> 00:14:19,091 You're 26 years old, and you're raising four kids. 322 00:14:19,091 --> 00:14:21,052 That's a lot of responsibility. 323 00:14:21,052 --> 00:14:22,069 TABITHA COLLINS: It's a lot. 324 00:14:22,069 --> 00:14:26,025 I don't know how I get through it, but I do. 325 00:14:26,025 --> 00:14:29,085 I just want to live the dream, like anyone else does-- have 326 00:14:29,085 --> 00:14:37,058 a family, have a home, and not stress about the hardships 327 00:14:37,058 --> 00:14:39,046 that we have around here. 328 00:14:39,046 --> 00:14:41,058 Parishioners have told you that they feel like 329 00:14:41,058 --> 00:14:44,066 they're tired of living in what feels like a third-world 330 00:14:44,066 --> 00:14:45,082 country? 331 00:14:45,082 --> 00:14:47,036 That's a direct quote. 332 00:14:47,036 --> 00:14:50,006 What do you say to someone who says that to you? 333 00:14:50,006 --> 00:14:52,068 Amen. 334 00:14:52,068 --> 00:14:54,058 Because I'm tired of it, too. 335 00:14:54,058 --> 00:14:56,028 It's gone on long enough. 336 00:14:56,028 --> 00:14:58,026 [CLOCK TICKING] 337 00:15:04,018 --> 00:15:07,004 In November, President Trump announced he would, quote, 338 00:15:07,004 --> 00:15:10,038 "permanently pause migration from all third-world countries 339 00:15:10,038 --> 00:15:14,010 to the US" after a member of the National Guard was killed 340 00:15:14,010 --> 00:15:16,044 and another badly wounded in Washington, 341 00:15:16,044 --> 00:15:19,002 allegedly by an Afghan refugee. 342 00:15:19,002 --> 00:15:21,002 But there is one group of refugees 343 00:15:21,002 --> 00:15:23,046 that Trump administration is welcoming. 344 00:15:23,046 --> 00:15:27,046 It's expediting the resettlement of white South Africans, mostly 345 00:15:27,046 --> 00:15:31,000 Afrikaners, who are descendants of Dutch settlers. 346 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,020 President Trump says that white farmers 347 00:15:33,020 --> 00:15:35,024 are victims of a genocide. 348 00:15:35,024 --> 00:15:37,082 The South African government disputes that. 349 00:15:37,082 --> 00:15:43,020 We went to South Africa to see for ourselves. 350 00:15:43,020 --> 00:15:46,016 In the rolling hills of KwaZulu-Natal province 351 00:15:46,016 --> 00:15:48,020 in the southeast of South Africa, 352 00:15:48,020 --> 00:15:51,044 we met Darrell Brown, a seventh-generation rancher 353 00:15:51,044 --> 00:15:52,036 and farmer. 354 00:15:52,036 --> 00:15:54,068 Did you grow up knowing you would be a farmer? 355 00:15:54,068 --> 00:15:56,044 It was always in my blood. 356 00:15:56,044 --> 00:15:58,047 It's a calling. 357 00:15:58,047 --> 00:15:59,084 ANDERSON COOPER: But that calling 358 00:15:59,084 --> 00:16:01,060 has often come with risks. 359 00:16:01,060 --> 00:16:05,012 10 years ago, his 82-year-old father was brutally attacked 360 00:16:05,012 --> 00:16:08,064 on the farm by robbers looking for guns and money. 361 00:16:08,064 --> 00:16:12,072 Then in 2020, Brown's friends Glen and Vida Rafferty 362 00:16:12,072 --> 00:16:16,016 were murdered in a robbery on their farm nearby. 363 00:16:16,016 --> 00:16:17,046 Your father was attacked. 364 00:16:17,046 --> 00:16:19,022 You've had friends murdered. 365 00:16:19,022 --> 00:16:20,056 Do you live in fear? 366 00:16:20,056 --> 00:16:23,024 I certainly live carefully. 367 00:16:23,024 --> 00:16:25,066 We're aware of what's happening around us. 368 00:16:25,066 --> 00:16:28,017 We don't take silly chances. 369 00:16:28,017 --> 00:16:30,017 ANDERSON COOPER: We came to Darrell Brown's farm 370 00:16:30,017 --> 00:16:33,073 because of what President Trump said last May about the murders 371 00:16:33,073 --> 00:16:35,065 of South African farmers. 372 00:16:35,065 --> 00:16:37,025 It's a genocide that's taking place 373 00:16:37,025 --> 00:16:39,029 that you people don't want to write about, 374 00:16:39,029 --> 00:16:41,047 but it's a terrible thing that's taking place. 375 00:16:41,047 --> 00:16:45,085 And farmers are being killed. 376 00:16:45,085 --> 00:16:47,034 They happen to be white. 377 00:16:47,034 --> 00:16:48,071 ANDERSON COOPER: Nine days later, 378 00:16:48,071 --> 00:16:51,021 South Africa's president, Cyril Ramaphosa, 379 00:16:51,021 --> 00:16:52,093 came to the White House. 380 00:16:52,093 --> 00:16:55,037 Elon Musk, who was born in South Africa 381 00:16:55,037 --> 00:16:59,037 and has also made claims of genocide, was there too. 382 00:16:59,037 --> 00:17:03,005 What happened next seemed to take Ramaphosa by surprise. 383 00:17:03,005 --> 00:17:05,017 Excuse me, turn the lights down. 384 00:17:05,017 --> 00:17:07,095 ANDERSON COOPER: President Trump showed several videos, proof, 385 00:17:07,095 --> 00:17:10,005 the White House said, of the violence targeting 386 00:17:10,005 --> 00:17:11,085 white farmers. 387 00:17:11,085 --> 00:17:15,081 DONALD TRUMP: These are burial sites right here. 388 00:17:15,081 --> 00:17:18,021 Burial sites. 389 00:17:18,021 --> 00:17:22,087 Over a thousand of white farmers. 390 00:17:22,087 --> 00:17:24,029 ANDERSON COOPER: We found the spot 391 00:17:24,029 --> 00:17:27,002 where those white crosses were once planted. 392 00:17:27,002 --> 00:17:31,086 It's a lonely pothole road not far from Darrell Brown's ranch. 393 00:17:31,086 --> 00:17:34,028 It definitely wasn't a burial site. 394 00:17:34,028 --> 00:17:37,034 Those crosses were there for less than 48 hours. 395 00:17:37,034 --> 00:17:39,074 It was purely an avenue of crosses 396 00:17:39,074 --> 00:17:43,090 that we planted there in honor of commercial farmers 397 00:17:43,090 --> 00:17:46,034 in South Africa that had lost their lives. 398 00:17:46,034 --> 00:17:48,026 ANDERSON COOPER: Brown knows about the crosses 399 00:17:48,026 --> 00:17:50,086 because he put them there on the day of his friends 400 00:17:50,086 --> 00:17:54,066 Glen and Vida Rafferty's funeral. 401 00:17:54,066 --> 00:17:57,006 He keeps them locked in a shed. 402 00:17:57,006 --> 00:17:59,026 In 2024, he brought them out again 403 00:17:59,026 --> 00:18:02,038 for the funeral of his best friend, Tollie Nel, who 404 00:18:02,038 --> 00:18:06,002 was also murdered on his farm. 405 00:18:06,002 --> 00:18:08,066 Tony's wife, Rene, still lives there. 406 00:18:08,066 --> 00:18:10,050 Her husband was killed in front of her, 407 00:18:10,050 --> 00:18:12,074 trying to fight off burglars. 408 00:18:12,074 --> 00:18:17,012 Her son, Theunis, was tied up while they stole cash and guns. 409 00:18:17,012 --> 00:18:19,018 No one has been arrested. 410 00:18:19,018 --> 00:18:22,014 My whole life has changed. 411 00:18:22,014 --> 00:18:24,055 I've got nothing to look forward to. 412 00:18:24,055 --> 00:18:27,047 Sorry. 413 00:18:27,047 --> 00:18:30,019 ANDERSON COOPER: Theunis now runs the farm. 414 00:18:30,019 --> 00:18:33,031 He carries a weapon with him almost all the time. 415 00:18:33,031 --> 00:18:36,067 The only time I don't have it on me is when I'm in the shower. 416 00:18:36,067 --> 00:18:40,095 Because I don't ever want another situation to arise where 417 00:18:40,095 --> 00:18:44,077 I feel that I'm a victim. 418 00:18:44,077 --> 00:18:47,027 ANDERSON COOPER: The Nels have hired private security guards 419 00:18:47,027 --> 00:18:49,095 and fortified their property with electric fences 420 00:18:49,095 --> 00:18:51,035 and cameras. 421 00:18:51,035 --> 00:18:53,031 Many in South Africa feel they can't 422 00:18:53,031 --> 00:18:56,011 rely on the country's ineffective and overwhelmed 423 00:18:56,011 --> 00:18:58,051 police to keep them safe. 424 00:18:58,051 --> 00:19:02,007 When you heard President Trump talk about a genocide, 425 00:19:02,007 --> 00:19:03,039 what did you think? 426 00:19:03,039 --> 00:19:05,057 Well, I just thought he was using the wrong word. 427 00:19:05,057 --> 00:19:07,091 In your opinion, it's not a genocide here? 428 00:19:07,091 --> 00:19:10,029 Not what I know as a genocide. 429 00:19:10,029 --> 00:19:13,027 Not what I've heard of what a genocide is. 430 00:19:13,027 --> 00:19:17,003 I see our attack as an opportunistic attack. 431 00:19:17,003 --> 00:19:18,025 They knew there was money. 432 00:19:18,025 --> 00:19:20,063 They knew there were firearms. 433 00:19:20,063 --> 00:19:23,012 ANDERSON COOPER: Whites make up only about 7% 434 00:19:23,012 --> 00:19:25,010 of the population of South Africa, 435 00:19:25,010 --> 00:19:30,028 but still own 72% of all privately held agricultural land 436 00:19:30,028 --> 00:19:33,072 and many of the country's large commercial farms. 437 00:19:33,072 --> 00:19:35,078 But according to Wandile Sihlobo, 438 00:19:35,078 --> 00:19:38,002 a leading agricultural economist, 439 00:19:38,002 --> 00:19:40,012 the overwhelming number of farmers and those 440 00:19:40,012 --> 00:19:42,052 working on farms are Black. 441 00:19:42,052 --> 00:19:44,064 The white farmers may have a bigger part 442 00:19:44,064 --> 00:19:47,052 of the proportion of income, but the vast majority 443 00:19:47,052 --> 00:19:51,002 of people operating the farms in South Africa are Black. 444 00:19:51,002 --> 00:19:52,042 There is crime on farms. 445 00:19:52,042 --> 00:19:54,022 There are murders on farms. 446 00:19:54,022 --> 00:19:56,066 They affect Black farmers as well as white farmers. 447 00:19:56,066 --> 00:19:59,036 They affect Black farmers as well as white farmers 448 00:19:59,036 --> 00:20:03,064 and also farm workers who are largely Black. 449 00:20:03,064 --> 00:20:07,016 ANDERSON COOPER: Zuma farmed this 9-acre plot for 20 years. 450 00:20:07,016 --> 00:20:09,046 He was used to having equipment stolen, 451 00:20:09,046 --> 00:20:14,080 but in 2024, a group of men shot at him and broke into his house. 452 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,020 Did you think at the time they were going to kill you? 453 00:20:17,020 --> 00:20:20,014 100% 100%. 454 00:20:20,014 --> 00:20:21,056 ANDERSON COOPER: After the attack, 455 00:20:21,056 --> 00:20:23,078 he decided to sell the farm. 456 00:20:23,078 --> 00:20:27,046 There are a lot of Black farmers that are attacked, 457 00:20:27,046 --> 00:20:30,018 and their voices are not out. 458 00:20:30,018 --> 00:20:31,052 People don't pay attention. 459 00:20:31,052 --> 00:20:34,092 It's just another number, another statistic. 460 00:20:34,092 --> 00:20:36,042 ANDERSON COOPER: South Africa is one 461 00:20:36,042 --> 00:20:39,004 of the most dangerous countries in the world. 462 00:20:39,004 --> 00:20:42,028 The murder rate is seven times that of the United States, 463 00:20:42,028 --> 00:20:45,082 and the majority of victims and perpetrators are Black. 464 00:20:45,082 --> 00:20:49,054 According to police, more than 25,000 people were murdered here 465 00:20:49,054 --> 00:20:51,034 in 2024. 466 00:20:51,034 --> 00:20:55,058 It's estimated 37 of them were killed on farms. 467 00:20:55,058 --> 00:20:57,048 37 out of 25,000. 468 00:20:57,048 --> 00:21:00,034 For us as farmers, that 37 is too much. 469 00:21:00,034 --> 00:21:02,054 ANDERSON COOPER: Johann Kotzé is an Afrikaner 470 00:21:02,054 --> 00:21:04,042 who's head of South Africa's largest 471 00:21:04,042 --> 00:21:06,037 agricultural organization. 472 00:21:06,037 --> 00:21:08,008 It's actually not about white genocide. 473 00:21:08,008 --> 00:21:11,004 It's about criminality in South Africa. 474 00:21:11,004 --> 00:21:12,072 That's what's happening on farms. 475 00:21:12,072 --> 00:21:15,006 It's what's happening in streets in Johannesburg 476 00:21:15,006 --> 00:21:16,012 and other major cities. 477 00:21:16,012 --> 00:21:17,084 It's crime. 478 00:21:17,084 --> 00:21:20,031 The fact that it happened on a farm 479 00:21:20,031 --> 00:21:22,051 doesn't make me special as a farmer. 480 00:21:22,051 --> 00:21:23,045 It's horrendous. 481 00:21:23,045 --> 00:21:24,084 Any murder is horrendous. 482 00:21:24,084 --> 00:21:26,059 ANDERSON COOPER: South African police only 483 00:21:26,059 --> 00:21:29,059 began publishing the race of those murdered on farms 484 00:21:29,059 --> 00:21:31,059 under pressure last year. 485 00:21:31,059 --> 00:21:34,003 In the first quarter of 2025, they 486 00:21:34,003 --> 00:21:36,089 reported six farm homicides. 487 00:21:36,089 --> 00:21:39,011 Five of the victims were Black. 488 00:21:39,011 --> 00:21:41,095 Poverty is the biggest driver of crime in South Africa. 489 00:21:41,095 --> 00:21:43,037 And how do you solve that? 490 00:21:43,037 --> 00:21:44,091 ANDERSON COOPER: South Africa remains 491 00:21:44,091 --> 00:21:48,039 one of the world's most economically unequal countries. 492 00:21:48,039 --> 00:21:51,029 44% of Blacks here live in poverty, 493 00:21:51,029 --> 00:21:54,003 compared to 1% of whites. 494 00:21:54,003 --> 00:21:56,063 Kotzé went to Washington last February 495 00:21:56,063 --> 00:21:58,051 to talk with administration officials 496 00:21:58,051 --> 00:22:00,067 about the economic problems here. 497 00:22:00,067 --> 00:22:03,051 He was surprised by what they focused on. 498 00:22:03,051 --> 00:22:05,041 They ask us about the white genocide. 499 00:22:05,041 --> 00:22:07,023 And the first thing I said is, I'm 500 00:22:07,023 --> 00:22:09,035 as Afrikaans is what you can get. 501 00:22:09,035 --> 00:22:13,075 I grew up Afrikaans, and I never witnessed that. 502 00:22:13,075 --> 00:22:15,087 ANDERSON COOPER: South Africa's 2.7 million 503 00:22:15,087 --> 00:22:19,020 Afrikaners descend from Dutch settlers who arrived 504 00:22:19,020 --> 00:22:21,056 on the continent 400 years ago. 505 00:22:21,056 --> 00:22:24,044 Every year they celebrate their culture and language 506 00:22:24,044 --> 00:22:27,012 in the shadow of the Voortrekker monument, 507 00:22:27,012 --> 00:22:31,000 which was built as a symbol of Afrikaner nationalism. 508 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,004 Millions of Black South Africans were forcibly evicted 509 00:22:34,004 --> 00:22:39,040 from their land and lost their rights to it by law in 1913. 510 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,022 When Afrikaners took power in 1948, 511 00:22:42,022 --> 00:22:45,020 they instituted apartheid, a brutal system 512 00:22:45,020 --> 00:22:48,028 of racial segregation and discrimination. 513 00:22:48,028 --> 00:22:51,060 Blacks had virtually no rights, and laws restricted 514 00:22:51,060 --> 00:22:53,060 where they could live and work. 515 00:22:53,060 --> 00:22:57,020 That all changed in 1994, when Black South Africans 516 00:22:57,020 --> 00:23:01,016 were allowed to vote and elected Nelson Mandela. 517 00:23:01,016 --> 00:23:02,064 God bless Africa. 518 00:23:02,064 --> 00:23:05,080 ANDERSON COOPER: In the decades since, there has been progress-- 519 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:09,044 a growing Black middle class and a reduction in poverty. 520 00:23:09,044 --> 00:23:11,052 But some controversial government efforts 521 00:23:11,052 --> 00:23:13,084 to redress inequalities have been 522 00:23:13,084 --> 00:23:16,077 plagued by graft and cronyism. 523 00:23:16,077 --> 00:23:19,045 We're here today to talk about South Africa. 524 00:23:19,045 --> 00:23:21,033 ANDERSON COOPER: White supremacists in the US 525 00:23:21,033 --> 00:23:24,009 and elsewhere have long portrayed Afrikaners 526 00:23:24,009 --> 00:23:27,095 as victims of discrimination and, worse, genocide. 527 00:23:27,095 --> 00:23:29,033 [THEME MUSIC] 528 00:23:29,033 --> 00:23:33,017 But those claims didn't go mainstream until 2018, 529 00:23:33,017 --> 00:23:35,085 when then Fox News host Tucker Carlson 530 00:23:35,085 --> 00:23:39,013 began alleging Afrikaner farmers were being killed 531 00:23:39,013 --> 00:23:41,017 and having their land seized. 532 00:23:41,017 --> 00:23:42,087 An embattled minority of farmers, 533 00:23:42,087 --> 00:23:46,049 mostly Afrikaans-speaking, is being targeted in a wave 534 00:23:46,049 --> 00:23:49,007 of barbaric and horrifying murders. 535 00:23:49,007 --> 00:23:51,053 ANDERSON COOPER: President Trump then tagged Tucker Carlson 536 00:23:51,053 --> 00:23:54,069 in a tweet, saying there were "large scale killings 537 00:23:54,069 --> 00:23:58,057 of farmers" in South Africa and the government was "now seizing 538 00:23:58,057 --> 00:24:00,049 land from white farmers." 539 00:24:00,049 --> 00:24:02,041 Are there large scale killings of farmers, 540 00:24:02,041 --> 00:24:04,061 and is the government seizing land? 541 00:24:04,061 --> 00:24:05,079 It is not happening. 542 00:24:05,079 --> 00:24:09,041 Donald Trump was fed this information, this link-- farm 543 00:24:09,041 --> 00:24:11,061 murders, genocide. 544 00:24:11,061 --> 00:24:14,007 There is no such a thing. 545 00:24:14,007 --> 00:24:16,095 ANDERSON COOPER: Max du Preez is a prominent Afrikaans journalist 546 00:24:16,095 --> 00:24:19,011 and former newspaper editor. 547 00:24:19,011 --> 00:24:21,005 Are you the victim of unjust discrimination? 548 00:24:21,005 --> 00:24:23,047 I've never been discriminated against. 549 00:24:23,047 --> 00:24:27,089 And I'm a loud-mouthed citizen because I'm a journalist, 550 00:24:27,089 --> 00:24:30,087 so I express myself very strongly, also 551 00:24:30,087 --> 00:24:35,013 against this inept, corrupt government. 552 00:24:35,013 --> 00:24:36,055 ANDERSON COOPER: Discrimination is 553 00:24:36,055 --> 00:24:39,031 outlawed under South Africa's constitution, which 554 00:24:39,031 --> 00:24:42,063 also protects property rights and due process. 555 00:24:42,063 --> 00:24:45,051 But in January last year, the South African parliament 556 00:24:45,051 --> 00:24:49,007 approved a land expropriation act, which critics say 557 00:24:49,007 --> 00:24:51,043 violates that constitution. 558 00:24:51,043 --> 00:24:53,083 The government compares the expropriation act 559 00:24:53,083 --> 00:24:56,017 to eminent domain in the United States, 560 00:24:56,017 --> 00:24:59,063 which allows it to buy private land for public use. 561 00:24:59,063 --> 00:25:02,083 What's different is that South Africa's expropriation act 562 00:25:02,083 --> 00:25:04,095 could, in some cases, allow the government 563 00:25:04,095 --> 00:25:07,055 to take land without compensation, 564 00:25:07,055 --> 00:25:10,083 and not just for public use, but to redress past 565 00:25:10,083 --> 00:25:12,076 passed discriminatory laws. 566 00:25:12,076 --> 00:25:15,058 Landowners have the right to fight back in court, 567 00:25:15,058 --> 00:25:18,008 but that might take years. 568 00:25:18,008 --> 00:25:20,086 The expropriation act isn't in effect yet, 569 00:25:20,086 --> 00:25:22,056 and it's being challenged in court 570 00:25:22,056 --> 00:25:25,080 by South Africa's second largest political party 571 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:29,096 and by Kallie Kriel, the CEO of the Afrikaner rights group 572 00:25:29,096 --> 00:25:32,060 AfriForum, who has repeatedly traveled 573 00:25:32,060 --> 00:25:36,012 with others to Washington to lobby for support. 574 00:25:36,012 --> 00:25:38,066 There is a serious threat to property rights. 575 00:25:38,066 --> 00:25:42,072 There is a serious threat to the lives of farmers, 576 00:25:42,072 --> 00:25:44,094 and that needs to be recognized. 577 00:25:44,094 --> 00:25:47,044 Are white farmers being killed for their land? 578 00:25:47,044 --> 00:25:49,060 Yes, I believe so. 579 00:25:49,060 --> 00:25:52,002 Is there a white genocide going on in South Africa? 580 00:25:52,002 --> 00:25:54,092 We've never used the term "white genocide." 581 00:25:54,092 --> 00:25:56,070 We're saying there are tortures. 582 00:25:56,070 --> 00:25:58,022 People are being murdered. 583 00:25:58,022 --> 00:26:00,080 We are seeing a call for genocide. 584 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,036 JULIUS MALEMA: Shoot to kill. 585 00:26:02,036 --> 00:26:05,016 ANDERSON COOPER: The call for genocide Kriel is talking about 586 00:26:05,016 --> 00:26:06,020 is this song-- 587 00:26:06,020 --> 00:26:09,093 Kill the boer, the farmer. 588 00:26:09,093 --> 00:26:12,015 ANDERSON COOPER: --"Kill the Boer, Kill the Farmer," 589 00:26:12,015 --> 00:26:15,017 which President Trump played a video of in the Oval Office 590 00:26:15,017 --> 00:26:16,009 in May. 591 00:26:16,009 --> 00:26:19,037 In the 1980s and '90s, it was sung at protests against 592 00:26:19,037 --> 00:26:23,029 apartheid and is still used at rallies by the man singing, 593 00:26:23,029 --> 00:26:27,053 Julius Malema, a race-baiting opposition politician who wants 594 00:26:27,053 --> 00:26:30,033 the government to seize white-owned land. 595 00:26:30,033 --> 00:26:35,049 What the rhetoric is, is that we hear the same people that 596 00:26:35,049 --> 00:26:37,041 chant "kill the boer, kill the farmer" 597 00:26:37,041 --> 00:26:41,009 use the narratives to try and portray Afrikaners and farmers 598 00:26:41,009 --> 00:26:42,023 as thieves. 599 00:26:42,023 --> 00:26:45,061 Has any farmer had their land taken in the last 30 600 00:26:45,061 --> 00:26:49,049 years of Black rule here in this country without compensation 601 00:26:49,049 --> 00:26:51,079 or without having redress through courts? 602 00:26:51,079 --> 00:26:53,095 Because the legislation did not allow it. 603 00:26:53,095 --> 00:26:55,079 The new legislation allows it. 604 00:26:55,079 --> 00:26:58,029 ANDERSON COOPER: President Trump cited the expropriation act 605 00:26:58,029 --> 00:27:00,071 in his executive order last February, 606 00:27:00,071 --> 00:27:03,065 cutting off all aid to South Africa and allowing 607 00:27:03,065 --> 00:27:07,058 for "the resettlement of Afrikaner refugees escaping 608 00:27:07,058 --> 00:27:12,050 government-sponsored race-based discrimination." 609 00:27:12,050 --> 00:27:16,042 The first group of 59 Afrikaner refugees arrived in May. 610 00:27:16,042 --> 00:27:19,002 Now almost 2,000 are here. 611 00:27:19,002 --> 00:27:22,023 Did you ever imagine that virtually the only group 612 00:27:22,023 --> 00:27:24,006 of refugees is going to be allowed in the US 613 00:27:24,006 --> 00:27:26,024 would be white Afrikaners? 614 00:27:26,024 --> 00:27:28,078 That shows up the complete absurdity 615 00:27:28,078 --> 00:27:31,012 of this Afrikaner refugee thing. 616 00:27:31,012 --> 00:27:34,024 Because they're saying these white Afrikaner refugees, 617 00:27:34,024 --> 00:27:38,094 their lives are more important than the bona fide refugees 618 00:27:38,094 --> 00:27:41,068 from everywhere else in the world that wants to come there. 619 00:27:41,068 --> 00:27:46,057 They're saying white lives are worth more than other lives. 620 00:27:46,057 --> 00:27:48,024 ANDERSON COOPER: Remember Darrell Brown, 621 00:27:48,024 --> 00:27:51,066 the farmer who organized the protests with the white crosses? 622 00:27:51,066 --> 00:27:53,086 He says he won't be packing his bags 623 00:27:53,086 --> 00:27:57,070 to become a refugee in America anytime soon. 624 00:27:57,070 --> 00:27:58,096 I'm an African. 625 00:27:58,096 --> 00:28:02,068 I've been burnt by the African sun, and I'm not going anywhere. 626 00:28:02,068 --> 00:28:04,050 There's a lot of sun in Florida. 627 00:28:04,050 --> 00:28:07,019 I'm very positive about South Africa. 628 00:28:07,019 --> 00:28:08,079 This is my home. 629 00:28:08,079 --> 00:28:10,075 [CLOCK TICKING] 630 00:28:20,007 --> 00:28:22,049 When you think about the way art is created, 631 00:28:22,049 --> 00:28:24,079 you might imagine painters, photographers, 632 00:28:24,079 --> 00:28:28,079 or sculptors immersed in their work at their studios. 633 00:28:28,079 --> 00:28:31,099 But what about a person sitting in front of a computer screen, 634 00:28:31,099 --> 00:28:36,003 using artificial intelligence and data to create visuals? 635 00:28:36,003 --> 00:28:37,039 Is that art? 636 00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:40,059 It's a question that is being asked and answered 637 00:28:40,059 --> 00:28:44,047 by some of the most prestigious museums, critics, and auction 638 00:28:44,047 --> 00:28:46,023 houses in the world. 639 00:28:46,023 --> 00:28:50,007 Some artists call AI a revolutionary new medium. 640 00:28:50,007 --> 00:28:52,015 Others call it theft. 641 00:28:52,015 --> 00:28:54,025 We wanted to see it for ourselves. 642 00:28:54,025 --> 00:28:57,083 So we went to Los Angeles to meet Refik Anadol. 643 00:28:57,083 --> 00:29:01,087 The 40-year-old Turkish American artist is considered a pioneer 644 00:29:01,087 --> 00:29:04,025 in the world of AI art. 645 00:29:04,025 --> 00:29:06,085 If you're wondering what that world looks like, 646 00:29:06,085 --> 00:29:09,009 grab your Dramamine. 647 00:29:09,009 --> 00:29:09,075 This is-- 648 00:29:09,075 --> 00:29:10,077 Whoa. 649 00:29:10,077 --> 00:29:12,069 SHARYN ALFONSI: Refik Anadol invited us 650 00:29:12,069 --> 00:29:15,085 inside this space at his LA studio. 651 00:29:15,085 --> 00:29:18,073 Every image that surrounds us, Anadol 652 00:29:18,073 --> 00:29:21,061 created using artificial intelligence. 653 00:29:21,061 --> 00:29:22,097 So those are not real birds? 654 00:29:22,097 --> 00:29:23,056 No. 655 00:29:23,056 --> 00:29:25,081 SHARYN ALFONSI: We'll get to exactly how he created it 656 00:29:25,081 --> 00:29:26,091 in a moment. 657 00:29:26,091 --> 00:29:29,017 But first, take it in. 658 00:29:29,017 --> 00:29:30,037 Whoa. 659 00:29:30,037 --> 00:29:32,093 A hypnotic flow of shapes and colors 660 00:29:32,093 --> 00:29:36,017 that morph and evolve in the mirrors and LCD 661 00:29:36,017 --> 00:29:38,017 screens that surround us. 662 00:29:38,017 --> 00:29:40,097 It can make you feel like Alice in Wonderland 663 00:29:40,097 --> 00:29:44,001 stumbled into Studio 54. 664 00:29:44,001 --> 00:29:46,053 I will say this, you should not have a cocktail 665 00:29:46,053 --> 00:29:48,009 before standing here, because-- 666 00:29:48,009 --> 00:29:50,049 All of this while a device around your neck 667 00:29:50,049 --> 00:29:53,047 pumps out different AI-generated scents, 668 00:29:53,047 --> 00:29:58,009 such as rain and flowers, to accompany what you're seeing. 669 00:29:58,009 --> 00:30:01,005 Anadol says eventually another device will monitor 670 00:30:01,005 --> 00:30:03,084 viewers' vital statistics, such as heartbeat, 671 00:30:03,084 --> 00:30:08,038 and that data will be used to change the art in real time. 672 00:30:08,038 --> 00:30:10,086 Is this a party trick? 673 00:30:10,086 --> 00:30:12,018 REFIK ANADOL: I don't think so. 674 00:30:12,018 --> 00:30:13,088 I feel like it's a new form of art. 675 00:30:13,088 --> 00:30:15,071 Like we are discovering a new place 676 00:30:15,071 --> 00:30:16,092 that we've never been before. 677 00:30:16,092 --> 00:30:19,072 [DRAMATIC MUSIC] 678 00:30:19,072 --> 00:30:21,084 SHARYN ALFONSI: If that all sounds a bit out there, 679 00:30:21,084 --> 00:30:25,082 consider the planetary scale of Refik Anadol's work. 680 00:30:25,082 --> 00:30:28,018 His massive, mind-bending images have 681 00:30:28,018 --> 00:30:31,030 been stretched across the Sphere in Las Vegas, 682 00:30:31,030 --> 00:30:35,018 the facade of the Walt Disney Concert Hall in Los Angeles, 683 00:30:35,018 --> 00:30:39,066 and Antonio Gaudi's Casa Batlló in Barcelona. 684 00:30:39,066 --> 00:30:43,018 When people ask you what you do, what do you say? 685 00:30:43,018 --> 00:30:48,098 So I'm a media artist, and I'm using data and AI in my work. 686 00:30:48,098 --> 00:30:52,094 So more than 16 years, I paint with a thinking brush. 687 00:30:52,094 --> 00:30:54,034 What's a thinking brush? 688 00:30:54,034 --> 00:31:00,043 I believe that information around us, data around us, 689 00:31:00,043 --> 00:31:01,085 have its own voice. 690 00:31:01,085 --> 00:31:04,083 But like painting, drawing the things we traditionally think 691 00:31:04,083 --> 00:31:07,093 of, sculpting, do you do any of those things? 692 00:31:07,093 --> 00:31:09,071 I think in my mind's eye. 693 00:31:09,071 --> 00:31:13,011 So technically, I may not draw well, but in my mind's eye, 694 00:31:13,011 --> 00:31:14,043 I can compute. 695 00:31:14,043 --> 00:31:18,039 I can imagine geometrically what exactly the mind's eye 696 00:31:18,039 --> 00:31:19,099 is looking for. 697 00:31:19,099 --> 00:31:24,087 SHARYN ALFONSI: To create art, Anadol uses data, lots of it. 698 00:31:24,087 --> 00:31:28,099 For this piece, he used 200 million photos of Earth. 699 00:31:28,099 --> 00:31:33,019 Data from NASA was the driving force behind these exhibits. 700 00:31:33,019 --> 00:31:36,011 When I think about data as a pigment, 701 00:31:36,011 --> 00:31:38,027 I think it doesn't need to dry. 702 00:31:38,027 --> 00:31:42,057 It can move in any shape, in any form, any color and texture. 703 00:31:42,057 --> 00:31:44,083 It sounds a little trippy. 704 00:31:44,083 --> 00:31:47,031 It is trippy because I think as artists 705 00:31:47,031 --> 00:31:49,087 we ask what is beyond reality. 706 00:31:49,087 --> 00:31:52,099 We can connect this one to another one. 707 00:31:52,099 --> 00:31:55,023 SHARYN ALFONSI: To show us how he does that, Anadol 708 00:31:55,023 --> 00:31:57,035 grabbed a gaming controller. 709 00:31:57,035 --> 00:32:00,036 So we are in this new algorithm 710 00:32:00,036 --> 00:32:04,008 that I am literally controlling the whole system. 711 00:32:04,008 --> 00:32:06,020 SHARYN ALFONSI: Anadol all says his team curated 712 00:32:06,020 --> 00:32:12,004 153 million images for a piece on California landscapes. 713 00:32:12,004 --> 00:32:16,000 We are flying in our data set of nature. 714 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:16,050 OK. 715 00:32:16,050 --> 00:32:20,074 So in this archive we have flora, fauna. 716 00:32:20,074 --> 00:32:22,036 SHARYN ALFONSI: Each image is converted 717 00:32:22,036 --> 00:32:24,044 into a series of data points that 718 00:32:24,044 --> 00:32:27,088 represents its characteristics, such as color, texture, 719 00:32:27,088 --> 00:32:28,092 and shape. 720 00:32:28,092 --> 00:32:32,064 They are then plotted into multidimensional space. 721 00:32:32,064 --> 00:32:35,056 That data is what the AI learns from. 722 00:32:35,056 --> 00:32:39,096 So when it receives a prompt, it can create its own, new version, 723 00:32:39,096 --> 00:32:43,092 images Anadol says only, quote, "exist in the mind 724 00:32:43,092 --> 00:32:44,086 of a machine." 725 00:32:45,036 --> 00:32:46,048 This isn't a real place? 726 00:32:46,048 --> 00:32:47,006 This is not. 727 00:32:47,006 --> 00:32:48,090 This is an AI dreaming this world. 728 00:32:48,090 --> 00:32:51,040 And now we are reshaping this world together. 729 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,004 SHARYN ALFONSI: Anadol then applies special algorithms 730 00:32:54,004 --> 00:32:59,034 to blend and make the images into his signature fluid style. 731 00:32:59,034 --> 00:33:02,056 Are you a computer programmer, or are you an artist? 732 00:33:02,056 --> 00:33:04,090 I am an artist, but I love computers. 733 00:33:04,090 --> 00:33:09,018 But now with AI, I feel like I have now programmed it in a way 734 00:33:09,018 --> 00:33:10,094 that I never imagined before. 735 00:33:10,094 --> 00:33:14,082 How much of this is driven by you and how much by the machine? 736 00:33:14,082 --> 00:33:16,094 So this is a great question, because I 737 00:33:16,094 --> 00:33:20,044 try my very best last 10 years to make a 50% machine, 738 00:33:20,044 --> 00:33:21,064 50% human. 739 00:33:21,064 --> 00:33:24,046 [DRAMATIC MUSIC] 740 00:33:24,046 --> 00:33:26,054 SHARYN ALFONSI: Treating AI as a co-creator 741 00:33:26,054 --> 00:33:29,084 has made Refik Anadol a darling of the tech world. 742 00:33:29,084 --> 00:33:33,046 He's teamed up with Google, MIT, and Microsoft 743 00:33:33,046 --> 00:33:36,030 to create large public installations. 744 00:33:36,030 --> 00:33:37,068 Let's start the bidding here. 745 00:33:37,068 --> 00:33:39,010 SHARYN ALFONSI: He's been embraced 746 00:33:39,010 --> 00:33:41,050 by some in the art world-- 747 00:33:41,050 --> 00:33:42,084 Sold at one million, one-- 748 00:33:42,084 --> 00:33:44,034 SHARYN ALFONSI: --selling his pieces 749 00:33:44,034 --> 00:33:47,018 for upwards of a million dollars at auction. 750 00:33:47,018 --> 00:33:51,014 His work has been exhibited at museums around the world. 751 00:33:51,014 --> 00:33:55,001 And in 2022, the Museum of Modern Art in New York 752 00:33:55,001 --> 00:33:56,061 commissioned this piece. 753 00:33:56,061 --> 00:33:59,023 [DRAMATIC MUSIC] 754 00:33:59,023 --> 00:34:03,003 A colossal 24-foot-high installation that filled 755 00:34:03,003 --> 00:34:06,083 the MoMA lobby, called Unsupervised. 756 00:34:06,083 --> 00:34:09,039 How did the public react to Unsupervised 757 00:34:09,039 --> 00:34:11,015 when they came in and saw it? 758 00:34:11,015 --> 00:34:16,063 It was a utter extraordinary hit. 759 00:34:16,063 --> 00:34:21,051 People sat in front of it for hours, literally transfixed 760 00:34:21,051 --> 00:34:23,019 by what they were seeing. 761 00:34:23,019 --> 00:34:24,060 It's an amazing painting. 762 00:34:24,060 --> 00:34:26,043 SHARYN ALFONSI: Glenn Lowry was the director 763 00:34:26,043 --> 00:34:28,033 of the MoMA for three decades. 764 00:34:28,033 --> 00:34:30,091 He retired in September. 765 00:34:30,091 --> 00:34:33,043 To create Unsupervised, Lowry told 766 00:34:33,043 --> 00:34:36,031 us Refik Anadol trained an AI system 767 00:34:36,031 --> 00:34:40,039 on the publicly available metadata of the entire MoMA 768 00:34:40,039 --> 00:34:41,041 collection. 769 00:34:41,041 --> 00:34:45,003 Think of metadata as the digital DNA of each piece. 770 00:34:45,003 --> 00:34:47,099 It describes and identifies the art. 771 00:34:47,099 --> 00:34:54,004 Anadol used MoMA's metadata to reimagine 200 years of art. 772 00:34:54,004 --> 00:34:57,080 He wrote some algorithms that allowed the data from one 773 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:02,014 object to evolve into the data of another object 774 00:35:02,014 --> 00:35:05,044 to become yet a third object or a fourth object 775 00:35:05,044 --> 00:35:07,008 never before seen. 776 00:35:07,008 --> 00:35:11,036 And I think people found it deeply satisfying. 777 00:35:11,036 --> 00:35:13,088 It's one of the most popular images in the collection. 778 00:35:13,088 --> 00:35:16,000 SHARYN ALFONSI: Studies have found that, typically, 779 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,032 museum visitors spend about 28 seconds looking 780 00:35:19,032 --> 00:35:21,008 at great works of art. 781 00:35:21,008 --> 00:35:25,024 For Unsupervised, Anadol says it was 38 minutes. 782 00:35:25,024 --> 00:35:28,032 But not everyone was quite so enamored. 783 00:35:28,032 --> 00:35:31,092 It's like a giant lava lamp that you 784 00:35:31,092 --> 00:35:33,078 can't take your eyes off of. 785 00:35:33,078 --> 00:35:36,032 SHARYN ALFONSI: Jerry Saltz is the Pulitzer Prize-winning art 786 00:35:36,032 --> 00:35:38,036 critic for New York Magazine. 787 00:35:38,036 --> 00:35:40,036 It's like an Etch A Sketch. 788 00:35:40,036 --> 00:35:42,020 SHARYN ALFONSI: He called Unsupervised 789 00:35:42,020 --> 00:35:44,064 a half-million-dollar screensaver. 790 00:35:44,064 --> 00:35:45,090 --splashing into-- 791 00:35:45,090 --> 00:35:48,040 SHARYN ALFONSI: When people came in and they looked at this, 792 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,085 they looked at it for 38 minutes. 793 00:35:50,085 --> 00:35:53,065 Isn't that the sign of success? 794 00:35:53,065 --> 00:35:58,013 Popularity is not the sign of success. 795 00:35:58,013 --> 00:36:01,097 How long you spend with a work of art 796 00:36:01,097 --> 00:36:06,005 is not a sign of success, so much as your willingness 797 00:36:06,005 --> 00:36:11,007 to get quiet within yourself, go to uncomfortable places, 798 00:36:11,007 --> 00:36:13,057 become comfortable in those places, 799 00:36:13,057 --> 00:36:15,045 asking yourself questions. 800 00:36:15,045 --> 00:36:23,057 In front of a Refid Adanol, you sit down, go into a stupor, 801 00:36:23,057 --> 00:36:26,019 and you don't have to think much. 802 00:36:26,019 --> 00:36:29,021 You go, oh, there goes a painting that 803 00:36:29,021 --> 00:36:32,033 looks a little like Renoir, morphing 804 00:36:32,033 --> 00:36:35,001 into one that looks like Picasso, 805 00:36:35,001 --> 00:36:37,045 morphing into an amoeba. 806 00:36:37,045 --> 00:36:39,033 It's something to look at. 807 00:36:39,033 --> 00:36:41,069 Is it art? 808 00:36:41,069 --> 00:36:44,009 AI is art. 809 00:36:44,009 --> 00:36:47,009 AI will be art. 810 00:36:47,009 --> 00:36:51,090 SHARYN ALFONSI: But Saltz says AI has a long way to go. 811 00:36:51,090 --> 00:36:56,058 AI is one-day-old. 812 00:36:56,058 --> 00:36:59,040 And we're already having conversations. 813 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:00,016 I hate it. 814 00:37:00,016 --> 00:37:01,004 You love it. 815 00:37:01,004 --> 00:37:01,088 It's good. 816 00:37:01,088 --> 00:37:02,090 It's bad. 817 00:37:02,090 --> 00:37:04,050 It's new. 818 00:37:04,050 --> 00:37:06,034 It's young. 819 00:37:06,034 --> 00:37:11,070 Most of what you see in AI, Sharyn, is crap. 820 00:37:11,070 --> 00:37:12,058 Crap? 821 00:37:12,058 --> 00:37:15,042 90% crap. 822 00:37:15,042 --> 00:37:22,038 But 90% of the art made during the Renaissance was also crap. 823 00:37:22,038 --> 00:37:24,086 Things take time. 824 00:37:24,086 --> 00:37:29,006 I think one has to recognize that works of art that 825 00:37:29,006 --> 00:37:33,030 challenge you are always going to be misunderstood 826 00:37:33,030 --> 00:37:35,004 by many at first. 827 00:37:35,004 --> 00:37:36,046 SHARYN ALFONSI: MoMa's Glenn Lowry 828 00:37:36,046 --> 00:37:40,034 says the skepticism around AI mirrors the reaction 829 00:37:40,034 --> 00:37:43,082 to the advent of photography 200 years ago. 830 00:37:43,082 --> 00:37:46,000 When suddenly the human hand is 831 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,082 removed from the making of an image, what does that mean? 832 00:37:49,082 --> 00:37:51,052 And I think artificial intelligence 833 00:37:51,052 --> 00:37:53,010 is analogous to that. 834 00:37:53,010 --> 00:37:57,020 But I don't think you can stop technology. 835 00:37:57,020 --> 00:37:59,076 SHARYN ALFONSI: Molly Crabapple is a New York-based artist 836 00:37:59,076 --> 00:38:00,064 and author. 837 00:38:00,064 --> 00:38:04,078 She does not think I should be welcomed into the art world. 838 00:38:04,078 --> 00:38:07,064 You've called this the greatest art heist in history. 839 00:38:07,064 --> 00:38:08,048 Yes. 840 00:38:08,048 --> 00:38:09,016 Why? 841 00:38:09,016 --> 00:38:10,070 Well, when we talk about art heist, 842 00:38:10,070 --> 00:38:13,044 typically we're talking about one painting being taken 843 00:38:13,044 --> 00:38:15,080 from a museum, two, three. 844 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:20,004 They stole billions and billions of images. 845 00:38:20,004 --> 00:38:22,038 SHARYN ALFONSI: Crabapple says museums, galleries, 846 00:38:22,038 --> 00:38:25,008 and auction houses shouldn't buy or display 847 00:38:25,008 --> 00:38:29,020 AI art trained on other artists' work without their consent. 848 00:38:29,020 --> 00:38:32,024 She calls the popular AI generators 849 00:38:32,024 --> 00:38:35,084 like this, which let users type in a prompt to create 850 00:38:35,084 --> 00:38:39,080 striking, sometimes surreal images, corporate plagiarism 851 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:40,084 bots. 852 00:38:40,084 --> 00:38:43,088 She says they're trained on art scraped from the web, 853 00:38:43,088 --> 00:38:45,057 including hers. 854 00:38:45,057 --> 00:38:50,025 This is an illustration Crabapple did of Aleppo, Syria. 855 00:38:50,025 --> 00:38:52,049 When we asked an AI image generator 856 00:38:52,049 --> 00:38:55,029 to create a drawing of a Syrian skyline 857 00:38:55,029 --> 00:39:00,089 in the style of Molly Crabapple, it made this in seconds. 858 00:39:00,089 --> 00:39:02,081 Strikingly similar. 859 00:39:02,081 --> 00:39:06,049 Did anyone ever ask you, hey, can we feed your images 860 00:39:06,049 --> 00:39:09,057 into this system? 861 00:39:09,057 --> 00:39:10,077 Certainly not. 862 00:39:10,077 --> 00:39:13,061 No artist has been asked for their consent. 863 00:39:13,061 --> 00:39:18,009 No artist has received compensation. 864 00:39:18,009 --> 00:39:20,045 In fact, we don't even see credit. 865 00:39:20,045 --> 00:39:22,069 SHARYN ALFONSI: The AI companies have told lawmakers 866 00:39:22,069 --> 00:39:26,025 that what they're doing falls under fair use, a legal doctrine 867 00:39:26,025 --> 00:39:29,093 which allows copyrighted works to be used without permission 868 00:39:29,093 --> 00:39:32,005 under certain circumstances. 869 00:39:32,005 --> 00:39:35,045 They claim AI is studying and learning, 870 00:39:35,045 --> 00:39:37,001 just like a human would. 871 00:39:37,001 --> 00:39:40,025 But a group of artists has filed a class-action lawsuit 872 00:39:40,025 --> 00:39:42,070 against four of the AI companies that 873 00:39:42,070 --> 00:39:46,060 make art generators, accusing them of copyright infringement, 874 00:39:46,060 --> 00:39:48,014 among other things. 875 00:39:48,014 --> 00:39:52,027 There are some artists that have called using these images theft. 876 00:39:52,027 --> 00:39:53,002 REFIK ANADOL: Mhm. 877 00:39:53,002 --> 00:39:54,024 What do you say to that? 878 00:39:54,024 --> 00:39:57,010 I completely agree all my artist friends. 879 00:39:57,010 --> 00:40:01,046 I know what they mean, and as an artist, I only use my own data. 880 00:40:01,046 --> 00:40:03,096 SHARYN ALFONSI: Refik Anadol told us since 2020, 881 00:40:03,096 --> 00:40:07,062 he's only worked with what he calls ethically sourced data 882 00:40:07,062 --> 00:40:08,036 sets. 883 00:40:08,036 --> 00:40:09,064 What do you mean by that? 884 00:40:09,064 --> 00:40:13,014 So this is the most important part of art making with AI. 885 00:40:13,014 --> 00:40:17,010 It takes a lot of teamwork, a lot of thinking, research. 886 00:40:17,010 --> 00:40:18,083 We always start with permission. 887 00:40:18,083 --> 00:40:19,066 SHARYN ALFONSI: Yeah 888 00:40:19,066 --> 00:40:22,074 Then we know exactly where information comes from. 889 00:40:22,074 --> 00:40:25,066 How long has this been in the works? 890 00:40:25,066 --> 00:40:29,094 Now, Anadol is building a 20,000-squares-foot museum 891 00:40:29,094 --> 00:40:35,030 dedicated to AI arts in downtown Los Angeles, called DATALAND-- 892 00:40:35,030 --> 00:40:38,030 How big will the screens be in here? 893 00:40:38,030 --> 00:40:43,007 --a massive Canvas to celebrate his optimism about technology. 894 00:40:43,007 --> 00:40:45,087 Anadol insists AI is not a threat, 895 00:40:45,087 --> 00:40:51,003 but a tool to create art no human could create alone. 896 00:40:51,003 --> 00:40:54,051 There are some people that say AI can never truly create art 897 00:40:54,051 --> 00:40:57,053 because it lacks emotion, it lacks lived experience, 898 00:40:57,053 --> 00:40:58,089 and it lacks intent. 899 00:40:58,089 --> 00:41:00,035 Yes. 900 00:41:00,035 --> 00:41:01,073 These are all, I think, true. 901 00:41:01,073 --> 00:41:04,061 That's why I believe human-machine collaboration. 902 00:41:04,061 --> 00:41:06,079 We are really completing that bridge 903 00:41:06,079 --> 00:41:10,079 where I feel like most likely where we are going as humanity, 904 00:41:10,079 --> 00:41:14,043 and just be sure that it's done right and it's shared right 905 00:41:14,043 --> 00:41:18,041 and celebrate this new age of imagination. 906 00:41:18,041 --> 00:41:20,025 [CLOCK TICKING] 907 00:41:22,055 --> 00:41:25,019 ANNOUNCER: Get immersed in Anadol's AI work 908 00:41:25,019 --> 00:41:28,079 and decide for yourself, Is it art? 909 00:41:28,079 --> 00:41:30,083 at 60minutesovertime.com. 910 00:41:37,019 --> 00:41:39,081 ANNOUNCER: The Last Minute of 60 Minutes 911 00:41:39,081 --> 00:41:42,013 is sponsored by UnitedHealthcare, 912 00:41:42,013 --> 00:41:45,051 coverage you can count on for your whole life ahead. 913 00:41:48,053 --> 00:41:51,069 Mike Eruzione delivered one of the greatest upsets 914 00:41:51,069 --> 00:41:53,089 in American sports history. 915 00:41:53,089 --> 00:41:57,051 As captain of the 1980 US Olympic hockey team, 916 00:41:57,051 --> 00:42:02,001 Eruzione led a squad of amateurs against the mighty Soviet Union 917 00:42:02,001 --> 00:42:04,041 and scored the game-winning goal. 918 00:42:04,041 --> 00:42:09,045 We asked him to reflect on the lesson of that miracle on ice 46 919 00:42:09,045 --> 00:42:11,089 years ago today. 920 00:42:11,089 --> 00:42:16,013 I think the lesson that our team showed in 1980 by winning 921 00:42:16,013 --> 00:42:18,081 an Olympic gold medal, by beating the Soviets a team 922 00:42:18,081 --> 00:42:20,093 that nobody in the world thought we could beat, 923 00:42:20,093 --> 00:42:23,069 is a great example of what makes our country so great. 924 00:42:23,069 --> 00:42:26,003 Herb Brooks, our coach, called us a lunch pail, 925 00:42:26,003 --> 00:42:28,033 hard hat group of guys, guys who came 926 00:42:28,033 --> 00:42:31,055 to work every single day, rolled up our sleeves, 927 00:42:31,055 --> 00:42:33,061 striving to be the best that we could be. 928 00:42:33,061 --> 00:42:36,099 And I think when you look back on 250 years in our country, 929 00:42:36,099 --> 00:42:40,000 you've seen moments like that where, despite the challenges, 930 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,010 despite the fact that nobody thinks we can achieve something, 931 00:42:43,010 --> 00:42:44,058 you find a way to do it. 932 00:42:44,058 --> 00:42:47,048 In 1980, we were looking for something to feel good about, 933 00:42:47,048 --> 00:42:48,080 and it happened to be us. 934 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,018 It happened to be our team. 935 00:42:50,018 --> 00:42:51,052 And people related to that. 936 00:42:51,052 --> 00:42:53,060 People come up to me to this day, and they'll say, 937 00:42:53,060 --> 00:42:55,097 I remember where I was when we won. 938 00:42:55,097 --> 00:42:56,080 And I always go, we? 939 00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,098 I didn't know you were on the team. 940 00:42:58,098 --> 00:43:00,090 But that's what that moment meant. 941 00:43:00,090 --> 00:43:03,048 If you believe in something and you're willing to work for it, 942 00:43:03,048 --> 00:43:07,090 you can accomplish it, and our team exemplified that. 943 00:43:07,090 --> 00:43:09,042 I'm Cecilia Vega. 944 00:43:09,042 --> 00:43:13,032 We'll be back next week with another edition of 60 Minutes. 945 00:43:16,092 --> 00:43:19,037 [CLOCK TICKING]