1 00:00:02,528 --> 00:00:07,231 [ STOPWATCH TICKING ] 2 00:00:12,066 --> 00:00:14,693 >>> MARY RELOTTO GREW UP IN 3 00:00:14,693 --> 00:00:15,858 >>> MARY RELOTTO GREW UP IN OHIO LONGING FOR A LARGE 4 00:00:15,858 --> 00:00:16,099 OHIO LONGING FOR A LARGE FAMILY. 5 00:00:16,099 --> 00:00:19,726 FAMILY. ONLY TO FIND OUT THAT SHE HAD 6 00:00:19,726 --> 00:00:20,396 ONLY TO FIND OUT THAT SHE HAD ONE, IN ITALY. 7 00:00:20,396 --> 00:00:22,033 ONE, IN ITALY. IT WAS YEARS BEFORE SHE COULD 8 00:00:22,033 --> 00:00:24,231 IT WAS YEARS BEFORE SHE COULD ASK HER BIRTH MOTHER THE MOST 9 00:00:24,231 --> 00:00:25,792 ASK HER BIRTH MOTHER THE MOST PAINFUL QUESTION OF ALL. 10 00:00:25,792 --> 00:00:27,528 PAINFUL QUESTION OF ALL. WHY WAS SHE GIVEN AWAY? 11 00:00:27,528 --> 00:00:28,198 WHY WAS SHE GIVEN AWAY? >> THE CHURCH CONVINCED HER 12 00:00:28,198 --> 00:00:30,330 >> THE CHURCH CONVINCED HER THAT IT WAS THE BEST THING FOR 13 00:00:30,330 --> 00:00:30,528 THAT IT WAS THE BEST THING FOR HER. 14 00:00:30,528 --> 00:00:32,330 HER. AND SO INSTEAD OF HELPING HER, 15 00:00:32,330 --> 00:00:35,000 AND SO INSTEAD OF HELPING HER, IT WAS BETTER FOR THEM TO MAKE 16 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:35,495 IT WAS BETTER FOR THEM TO MAKE MONEY SELLING BABIES. 17 00:00:35,495 --> 00:00:37,858 MONEY SELLING BABIES. SO AM I ANGRY AT THE CHURCH? 18 00:00:37,858 --> 00:00:39,660 SO AM I ANGRY AT THE CHURCH? HELL YEAH. 19 00:00:39,660 --> 00:00:42,198 HELL YEAH. [ STOPWATCH TICKING ] 20 00:00:42,198 --> 00:00:44,099 [ STOPWATCH TICKING ] >>> ENTER SOME COUNTRIES, YOU 21 00:00:44,099 --> 00:00:44,858 >>> ENTER SOME COUNTRIES, YOU ARRIVE IN STYLE. 22 00:00:44,858 --> 00:00:46,231 ARRIVE IN STYLE. HERE, YOU ARRIVE IN WHAT’S 23 00:00:46,231 --> 00:00:47,000 HERE, YOU ARRIVE IN WHAT’S BASICALLY A BACKYARD SWING 24 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,759 BASICALLY A BACKYARD SWING HOISTED BY A CRANK 60 FEET 25 00:00:49,759 --> 00:00:50,462 HOISTED BY A CRANK 60 FEET ABOVE THE NORTH SEA. 26 00:00:50,462 --> 00:00:52,924 ABOVE THE NORTH SEA. AND IF YOU’RE WONDERING ABOUT 27 00:00:52,924 --> 00:00:55,066 AND IF YOU’RE WONDERING ABOUT THE SAFETY REGULATIONS, YEAH, 28 00:00:55,066 --> 00:00:55,297 THE SAFETY REGULATIONS, YEAH, US TOO. 29 00:00:55,297 --> 00:00:58,957 US TOO. THEN AGAIN, WHEN YOU ARE A 30 00:00:58,957 --> 00:00:59,528 THEN AGAIN, WHEN YOU ARE A SOVEREIGN NATION YOU, BY 31 00:00:59,528 --> 00:01:01,924 SOVEREIGN NATION YOU, BY DEFINITION, SET YOUR OWN RULES. 32 00:01:01,924 --> 00:01:03,561 DEFINITION, SET YOUR OWN RULES. >> THAT’S A HELLUVA WAY TO GET 33 00:01:03,561 --> 00:01:04,099 >> THAT’S A HELLUVA WAY TO GET INTO A COUNTRY. 34 00:01:04,099 --> 00:01:05,792 INTO A COUNTRY. >> THE ONLY WAY TO TRAVEL. 35 00:01:05,792 --> 00:01:08,825 >> THE ONLY WAY TO TRAVEL. >> WELCOME TO SEALAND, A 36 00:01:08,825 --> 00:01:10,264 >> WELCOME TO SEALAND, A MONARCHY THAT DECLARED ITS 37 00:01:10,264 --> 00:01:10,759 MONARCHY THAT DECLARED ITS INDEPENDENCE IN 1967. 38 00:01:10,759 --> 00:01:14,924 INDEPENDENCE IN 1967. JUST WAIT UNTIL YOU HEAR THIS 39 00:01:14,924 --> 00:01:15,165 JUST WAIT UNTIL YOU HEAR THIS STORY. 40 00:01:15,165 --> 00:01:17,891 STORY. >>> I FEEL A REAL 41 00:01:17,891 --> 00:01:19,330 >>> I FEEL A REAL RESPONSIBILITY TO TRY AND GET 42 00:01:19,330 --> 00:01:22,132 RESPONSIBILITY TO TRY AND GET AS MUCH ON SCREEN FOR THE 43 00:01:22,132 --> 00:01:23,165 AS MUCH ON SCREEN FOR THE AUDIENCE AS POSSIBLE. 44 00:01:23,165 --> 00:01:23,462 AUDIENCE AS POSSIBLE. >> ACTION! 45 00:01:23,462 --> 00:01:24,759 >> ACTION! >> CHRISTOPHER NOLAN IS ONE OF 46 00:01:24,759 --> 00:01:28,792 >> CHRISTOPHER NOLAN IS ONE OF THE GREAT DIRECTORS OF OUR 47 00:01:28,792 --> 00:01:29,000 THE GREAT DIRECTORS OF OUR TIME. 48 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:31,957 TIME. "OPPENHEIMER," "DUNKIRK," 49 00:01:31,957 --> 00:01:32,726 "OPPENHEIMER," "DUNKIRK," "INTERSTELLAR," AND NEXT, "THE 50 00:01:32,726 --> 00:01:33,000 "INTERSTELLAR," AND NEXT, "THE ODYSSEY." 51 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,033 ODYSSEY." >> I MEAN, IT WAS THE HARDEST 52 00:01:35,033 --> 00:01:37,264 >> I MEAN, IT WAS THE HARDEST MOVIE I’VE EVER DONE BY FAR. 53 00:01:37,264 --> 00:01:37,957 MOVIE I’VE EVER DONE BY FAR. I MEAN, NOT EVEN CLOSE. 54 00:01:37,957 --> 00:01:40,429 I MEAN, NOT EVEN CLOSE. [ STOPWATCH TICKING ] 55 00:01:40,429 --> 00:01:41,297 [ STOPWATCH TICKING ] >> I’M LESLEY STAHL. 56 00:01:41,297 --> 00:01:42,363 >> I’M LESLEY STAHL. >> I’M BILL WHITAKER. 57 00:01:42,363 --> 00:01:43,462 >> I’M BILL WHITAKER. >> I’M JON WERTHEIM. 58 00:01:43,462 --> 00:01:45,726 >> I’M JON WERTHEIM. >> I’M ANDERSON COOPER. 59 00:01:45,726 --> 00:01:46,561 >> I’M ANDERSON COOPER. >> I’M SCOTT PELLEY. 60 00:01:46,561 --> 00:01:48,924 >> I’M SCOTT PELLEY. >> THOSE STORIES TONIGHT ON "60 61 00:01:48,924 --> 00:01:49,198 >> THOSE STORIES TONIGHT ON "60 MINUTES." 62 00:01:57,792 --> 00:01:57,924 MINUTES." [ STOPWATCH TICKING ] [ STOPWATCH TICKING ] 63 00:01:57,924 --> 00:02:00,000 >>> DURING THE 1950s, THE 64 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:01,429 >>> DURING THE 1950s, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IN BELGIUM 65 00:02:01,429 --> 00:02:02,726 CATHOLIC CHURCH IN BELGIUM SEPARATED THOUSANDS OF NEWBORNS 66 00:02:02,726 --> 00:02:04,495 SEPARATED THOUSANDS OF NEWBORNS FROM THEIR UNWED MOTHERS AND 67 00:02:04,495 --> 00:02:07,627 FROM THEIR UNWED MOTHERS AND PUT THEM UP FOR ADOPTION, OFTEN 68 00:02:07,627 --> 00:02:08,528 PUT THEM UP FOR ADOPTION, OFTEN WITHOUT THEIR MOTHERS’ CONSENT. 69 00:02:08,528 --> 00:02:10,495 WITHOUT THEIR MOTHERS’ CONSENT. THE WOMEN WERE SHAMED INTO 70 00:02:10,495 --> 00:02:11,792 THE WOMEN WERE SHAMED INTO SURRENDERING THEIR BABIES BY 71 00:02:11,792 --> 00:02:14,330 SURRENDERING THEIR BABIES BY THEIR FAMILIES AND A POWERFUL 72 00:02:14,330 --> 00:02:14,561 THEIR FAMILIES AND A POWERFUL CHURCH. 73 00:02:14,561 --> 00:02:16,033 CHURCH. IN 2024, POPE FRANCIS 74 00:02:16,033 --> 00:02:18,759 IN 2024, POPE FRANCIS APOLOGIZED FOR THOSE FORCED 75 00:02:18,759 --> 00:02:19,066 APOLOGIZED FOR THOSE FORCED ADOPTIONS. 76 00:02:19,066 --> 00:02:22,264 ADOPTIONS. BUT BELGIANS WEREN’T THE ONLY 77 00:02:22,264 --> 00:02:22,528 BUT BELGIANS WEREN’T THE ONLY VICTIMS. 78 00:02:22,528 --> 00:02:26,627 VICTIMS. FROM 1950 TO 1970, THE VATICAN 79 00:02:26,627 --> 00:02:27,891 FROM 1950 TO 1970, THE VATICAN SENT 3,500 ITALIAN CHILDREN TO 80 00:02:27,891 --> 00:02:31,957 SENT 3,500 ITALIAN CHILDREN TO AMERICA ON SOMETHING CALLED AN 81 00:02:31,957 --> 00:02:32,297 AMERICA ON SOMETHING CALLED AN ORPHAN VISA. 82 00:02:32,297 --> 00:02:35,759 ORPHAN VISA. THE TROUBLE WAS, MOST WERE NOT 83 00:02:35,759 --> 00:02:36,033 THE TROUBLE WAS, MOST WERE NOT ORPHANS. 84 00:02:36,033 --> 00:02:36,462 ORPHANS. LIKE THEIR BELGIAN 85 00:02:36,462 --> 00:02:39,462 LIKE THEIR BELGIAN COUNTERPARTS, THEY TOO WERE THE 86 00:02:39,462 --> 00:02:40,066 COUNTERPARTS, THEY TOO WERE THE CHILDREN OF UNWED MOTHERS. 87 00:02:40,066 --> 00:02:41,594 CHILDREN OF UNWED MOTHERS. MANY MOTHERS LATER WENT 88 00:02:41,594 --> 00:02:42,660 MANY MOTHERS LATER WENT SEARCHING FOR THEIR CHILDREN, 89 00:02:42,660 --> 00:02:45,066 SEARCHING FOR THEIR CHILDREN, ONLY TO DISCOVER THEY HAD BEEN 90 00:02:45,066 --> 00:02:46,132 ONLY TO DISCOVER THEY HAD BEEN SENT ACROSS AN OCEAN. 91 00:02:46,132 --> 00:02:49,759 SENT ACROSS AN OCEAN. AS WE FIRST REPORTED IN 2024, 92 00:02:49,759 --> 00:02:51,726 AS WE FIRST REPORTED IN 2024, THOUSANDS OF AMERICAN ADOPTEES 93 00:02:51,726 --> 00:02:56,825 THOUSANDS OF AMERICAN ADOPTEES ARE STILL STRUGGLING TO PIECE 94 00:02:56,825 --> 00:02:57,594 ARE STILL STRUGGLING TO PIECE TOGETHER THEIR LOST LIVES. 95 00:02:57,594 --> 00:03:01,297 TOGETHER THEIR LOST LIVES. >> IT WAS A DAY HE’LL NEVER 96 00:03:01,297 --> 00:03:01,528 >> IT WAS A DAY HE’LL NEVER FORGET. 97 00:03:01,528 --> 00:03:02,363 FORGET. AMERICAN ADOPTEE JOHN 98 00:03:02,363 --> 00:03:04,660 AMERICAN ADOPTEE JOHN CAMPITELLI WAS 28 YEARS OLD 99 00:03:04,660 --> 00:03:07,627 CAMPITELLI WAS 28 YEARS OLD WHEN HE WAS REUNITED WITH HIS 100 00:03:07,627 --> 00:03:08,264 WHEN HE WAS REUNITED WITH HIS ITALIAN BIRTH MOTHER. 101 00:03:08,264 --> 00:03:09,924 ITALIAN BIRTH MOTHER. HE’D BEEN SEARCHING FOR HER FOR 102 00:03:09,924 --> 00:03:10,627 HE’D BEEN SEARCHING FOR HER FOR MORE THAN A DECADE. 103 00:03:10,627 --> 00:03:13,429 MORE THAN A DECADE. A MOTHER HE’D BEEN TOLD HAD 104 00:03:13,429 --> 00:03:13,792 A MOTHER HE’D BEEN TOLD HAD ABANDONED HIM. 105 00:03:13,792 --> 00:03:16,363 ABANDONED HIM. >> MY MOM SAID, YOU KNOW, 28 106 00:03:16,363 --> 00:03:16,825 >> MY MOM SAID, YOU KNOW, 28 YEARS HAVE GONE BY. 107 00:03:16,825 --> 00:03:18,066 YEARS HAVE GONE BY. I’VE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO BAKE A 108 00:03:18,066 --> 00:03:19,726 I’VE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO BAKE A CAKE FOR YOU FOR YOUR BIRTHDAY. 109 00:03:19,726 --> 00:03:21,000 CAKE FOR YOU FOR YOUR BIRTHDAY. SHE SAYS, I DON’T CARE WHAT 110 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:21,330 SHE SAYS, I DON’T CARE WHAT MONTH IT IS. 111 00:03:21,330 --> 00:03:23,033 MONTH IT IS. I’M GOING TO BAKE YOU A CAKE. 112 00:03:23,033 --> 00:03:24,825 I’M GOING TO BAKE YOU A CAKE. WE NEED TO CELEBRATE CAUSE OUR 113 00:03:24,825 --> 00:03:26,825 WE NEED TO CELEBRATE CAUSE OUR PRODIGAL SON HAS FINALLY COME 114 00:03:26,825 --> 00:03:27,033 PRODIGAL SON HAS FINALLY COME HOME. 115 00:03:27,033 --> 00:03:30,891 HOME. >> JOHN CAMPITELLI WAS BORN 116 00:03:30,891 --> 00:03:33,165 >> JOHN CAMPITELLI WAS BORN PIERO DAVI IN ITALY. 117 00:03:33,165 --> 00:03:34,099 PIERO DAVI IN ITALY. HIS MOTHER, FRANCESCA, WAS 118 00:03:34,099 --> 00:03:35,627 HIS MOTHER, FRANCESCA, WAS UNMARRIED AND FORCED BY HER 119 00:03:35,627 --> 00:03:36,858 UNMARRIED AND FORCED BY HER FAMILY TO GIVE HIM UP. 120 00:03:36,858 --> 00:03:39,132 FAMILY TO GIVE HIM UP. HE WAS SENT TO A CATHOLIC RUN 121 00:03:39,132 --> 00:03:43,099 HE WAS SENT TO A CATHOLIC RUN INSTITUTION FOR THE CHILDREN OF 122 00:03:43,099 --> 00:03:44,924 INSTITUTION FOR THE CHILDREN OF UNWED MOTHERS, SHUNNED AND 123 00:03:44,924 --> 00:03:46,363 UNWED MOTHERS, SHUNNED AND DISGRACED, FRANCESCA HANDED HER 124 00:03:46,363 --> 00:03:47,033 DISGRACED, FRANCESCA HANDED HER BABY TO THE NUNS. 125 00:03:47,033 --> 00:03:48,528 BABY TO THE NUNS. IMMEDIATELY HER NAME WAS 126 00:03:48,528 --> 00:03:49,660 IMMEDIATELY HER NAME WAS STRIPPED FROM THE BIRTH 127 00:03:49,660 --> 00:03:49,924 STRIPPED FROM THE BIRTH RECORDS. 128 00:03:49,924 --> 00:03:54,264 RECORDS. WITH THE STROKE OF A PEN, PIERO 129 00:03:54,264 --> 00:03:55,495 WITH THE STROKE OF A PEN, PIERO DAVI BECAME AN ORPHAN. 130 00:03:55,495 --> 00:03:57,924 DAVI BECAME AN ORPHAN. CAMPITELLI SHOWED US THE CHURCH 131 00:03:57,924 --> 00:03:59,165 CAMPITELLI SHOWED US THE CHURCH DOCUMENTS THAT CHANGED HIS 132 00:03:59,165 --> 00:03:59,363 DOCUMENTS THAT CHANGED HIS LIFE. 133 00:03:59,363 --> 00:04:02,825 LIFE. >> IT SAYS HERE, THEY ABANDONED 134 00:04:02,825 --> 00:04:04,198 >> IT SAYS HERE, THEY ABANDONED SINCE BIRTH, AND THEIR 135 00:04:04,198 --> 00:04:04,726 SINCE BIRTH, AND THEIR WHEREABOUTS ARE UNKNOWN. 136 00:04:04,726 --> 00:04:06,132 WHEREABOUTS ARE UNKNOWN. THEY KNEW WELL WHERE MY MOM 137 00:04:06,132 --> 00:04:06,330 THEY KNEW WELL WHERE MY MOM WAS. 138 00:04:06,330 --> 00:04:07,759 WAS. I MEAN, SHE SHOWED HER 139 00:04:07,759 --> 00:04:09,528 I MEAN, SHE SHOWED HER DOCUMENTS WHEN SHE HANDED ME 140 00:04:09,528 --> 00:04:11,132 DOCUMENTS WHEN SHE HANDED ME OVER, SO THIS IS AN OUTRIGHT 141 00:04:11,132 --> 00:04:11,330 OVER, SO THIS IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE. 142 00:04:11,330 --> 00:04:13,462 LIE. >> A LIE JOHN CAMPITELLI HAS 143 00:04:13,462 --> 00:04:14,099 >> A LIE JOHN CAMPITELLI HAS SPENT HIS LIFE UNRAVELING. 144 00:04:14,099 --> 00:04:15,891 SPENT HIS LIFE UNRAVELING. AS SOON AS HE WAS DECLARED AN 145 00:04:15,891 --> 00:04:17,759 AS SOON AS HE WAS DECLARED AN ORPHAN, HE WAS ELIGIBLE FOR 146 00:04:17,759 --> 00:04:20,231 ORPHAN, HE WAS ELIGIBLE FOR ADOPTION AND A U.S. VISA. 147 00:04:20,231 --> 00:04:23,858 ADOPTION AND A U.S. VISA. HE SAYS HIS MOTHER TOLD HIM SHE 148 00:04:23,858 --> 00:04:24,363 HE SAYS HIS MOTHER TOLD HIM SHE HAD NO IDEA. 149 00:04:24,363 --> 00:04:25,825 HAD NO IDEA. SHE HAD EVERY INTENTION OF 150 00:04:25,825 --> 00:04:27,264 SHE HAD EVERY INTENTION OF COMING BACK FOR HIM. 151 00:04:27,264 --> 00:04:30,726 COMING BACK FOR HIM. >> SHE SAID, "I NEVER SIGNED A 152 00:04:30,726 --> 00:04:32,165 >> SHE SAID, "I NEVER SIGNED A PAPER ANYWHERE SAYING THAT I 153 00:04:32,165 --> 00:04:33,759 PAPER ANYWHERE SAYING THAT I WAS WILLING TO GIVE YOU UP." 154 00:04:33,759 --> 00:04:35,627 WAS WILLING TO GIVE YOU UP." >> SHE THOUGHT PLACING YOU IN 155 00:04:35,627 --> 00:04:36,594 >> SHE THOUGHT PLACING YOU IN THE INSTITUTION WAS TEMPORARY? 156 00:04:36,594 --> 00:04:39,330 THE INSTITUTION WAS TEMPORARY? >> SHE THOUGHT THAT IT WOULD BE 157 00:04:39,330 --> 00:04:41,132 >> SHE THOUGHT THAT IT WOULD BE HER RIGHT TO BE ABLE TO GET ME 158 00:04:41,132 --> 00:04:42,495 HER RIGHT TO BE ABLE TO GET ME BACK SOMEDAY WHEN SHE GOT HER 159 00:04:42,495 --> 00:04:43,033 BACK SOMEDAY WHEN SHE GOT HER LIFE TOGETHER. 160 00:04:43,033 --> 00:04:45,099 LIFE TOGETHER. >> SHE NEVER SIGNED YOU AWAY? 161 00:04:45,099 --> 00:04:45,363 >> SHE NEVER SIGNED YOU AWAY? >> NO. 162 00:04:45,363 --> 00:04:46,660 >> NO. SHE SAID, "I PLACED YOU BECAUSE 163 00:04:46,660 --> 00:04:47,759 SHE SAID, "I PLACED YOU BECAUSE I COULDN’T KEEP YOU AT THAT 164 00:04:47,759 --> 00:04:49,561 I COULDN’T KEEP YOU AT THAT POINT IN TIME BECAUSE OF THE 165 00:04:49,561 --> 00:04:50,495 POINT IN TIME BECAUSE OF THE FAMILY SITUATION. 166 00:04:50,495 --> 00:04:52,033 FAMILY SITUATION. BUT I NEVER CONSENTED TO THE 167 00:04:52,033 --> 00:04:54,099 BUT I NEVER CONSENTED TO THE ADOPTION OR TO THE FACT THAT 168 00:04:54,099 --> 00:04:55,231 ADOPTION OR TO THE FACT THAT YOU WOULD LEAVE ITALY AND YOU 169 00:04:55,231 --> 00:04:57,066 YOU WOULD LEAVE ITALY AND YOU WOULD BE FAR FROM ME FOR THE 170 00:04:57,066 --> 00:04:58,132 WOULD BE FAR FROM ME FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE." 171 00:04:58,132 --> 00:04:59,561 REST OF MY LIFE." >> PIERO DAVI WAS ONE OF 172 00:04:59,561 --> 00:05:01,561 >> PIERO DAVI WAS ONE OF THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN BORN OUT 173 00:05:01,561 --> 00:05:05,825 THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN BORN OUT OF WEDLOCK THAT THE VATICAN 174 00:05:05,825 --> 00:05:06,561 OF WEDLOCK THAT THE VATICAN REPACKAGED AS ORPHANS. 175 00:05:06,561 --> 00:05:08,858 REPACKAGED AS ORPHANS. THE CHURCH ARRANGED THE VISAS, 176 00:05:08,858 --> 00:05:10,957 THE CHURCH ARRANGED THE VISAS, HELPED BY A 1950 U.S. LAW THAT 177 00:05:10,957 --> 00:05:11,660 HELPED BY A 1950 U.S. LAW THAT BROADENED THE DEFINITION OF 178 00:05:11,660 --> 00:05:13,429 BROADENED THE DEFINITION OF ORPHAN TO INCLUDE A CHILD WITH 179 00:05:13,429 --> 00:05:17,528 ORPHAN TO INCLUDE A CHILD WITH ONE PARENT, BUT ONE WHO 180 00:05:17,528 --> 00:05:18,033 ONE PARENT, BUT ONE WHO COULDN’T PROVIDE CARE. 181 00:05:18,033 --> 00:05:21,033 COULDN’T PROVIDE CARE. WAS THAT LEEWAY, THE ORPHAN 182 00:05:21,033 --> 00:05:21,396 WAS THAT LEEWAY, THE ORPHAN PROGRAM BOOMED. 183 00:05:21,396 --> 00:05:22,429 PROGRAM BOOMED. FOR PIERO’S MOTHER AND 184 00:05:22,429 --> 00:05:24,594 FOR PIERO’S MOTHER AND THOUSANDS LIKE HER, IT WAS 185 00:05:24,594 --> 00:05:25,594 THOUSANDS LIKE HER, IT WAS DEVASTATING TO LEARN THE CHILD 186 00:05:25,594 --> 00:05:29,429 DEVASTATING TO LEARN THE CHILD SHE’D ENTRUSTED TO THE CHURCH 187 00:05:29,429 --> 00:05:29,858 SHE’D ENTRUSTED TO THE CHURCH HAD DISAPPEARED. 188 00:05:29,858 --> 00:05:31,759 HAD DISAPPEARED. >> IT SEEMS THAT MANY OF THESE 189 00:05:31,759 --> 00:05:33,792 >> IT SEEMS THAT MANY OF THESE MOTHERS HAD NO IDEA THAT THEIR 190 00:05:33,792 --> 00:05:35,297 MOTHERS HAD NO IDEA THAT THEIR CHILDREN WERE BEING SENT TO THE 191 00:05:35,297 --> 00:05:35,660 CHILDREN WERE BEING SENT TO THE UNITED STATES. 192 00:05:35,660 --> 00:05:38,693 UNITED STATES. COULD THEY DO ANYTHING ABOUT 193 00:05:38,693 --> 00:05:38,858 COULD THEY DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT? 194 00:05:38,858 --> 00:05:39,429 IT? >> NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT. 195 00:05:39,429 --> 00:05:41,330 >> NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT. YOU CAN’T SEND A BABY TO THE 196 00:05:41,330 --> 00:05:44,099 YOU CAN’T SEND A BABY TO THE UNITED STATES AND THEN TELL THE 197 00:05:44,099 --> 00:05:45,792 UNITED STATES AND THEN TELL THE ADOPTIVE PARENTS THAT THE BIRTH 198 00:05:45,792 --> 00:05:48,132 ADOPTIVE PARENTS THAT THE BIRTH MOTHER WANTS THE CHILD. 199 00:05:48,132 --> 00:05:49,561 MOTHER WANTS THE CHILD. >> AUTHOR MARIA LAURINO 200 00:05:49,561 --> 00:05:50,297 >> AUTHOR MARIA LAURINO UNCOVERED THE VATICAN’S ORPHAN 201 00:05:50,297 --> 00:05:53,099 UNCOVERED THE VATICAN’S ORPHAN PROGRAM IN HER BOOK, "THE PRICE 202 00:05:53,099 --> 00:05:53,462 PROGRAM IN HER BOOK, "THE PRICE OF CHILDREN." 203 00:05:53,462 --> 00:05:54,726 OF CHILDREN." SHE PIECED THE STORY TOGETHER 204 00:05:54,726 --> 00:05:57,132 SHE PIECED THE STORY TOGETHER FROM HUNDREDS OF DOCUMENTS IN 205 00:05:57,132 --> 00:06:00,000 FROM HUNDREDS OF DOCUMENTS IN THE CHURCH’S OWN ARCHIVES IN 206 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:00,264 THE CHURCH’S OWN ARCHIVES IN NEW YORK. 207 00:06:00,264 --> 00:06:01,561 NEW YORK. LAURINO TOLD US THE PROGRAM 208 00:06:01,561 --> 00:06:04,231 LAURINO TOLD US THE PROGRAM HINGED ON A CONSENT FORM THE 209 00:06:04,231 --> 00:06:04,891 HINGED ON A CONSENT FORM THE MOTHERS WERE SUPPOSE TO SIGN 210 00:06:04,891 --> 00:06:07,264 MOTHERS WERE SUPPOSE TO SIGN SEVERING ALL RIGHTS TO THE 211 00:06:07,264 --> 00:06:07,495 SEVERING ALL RIGHTS TO THE CHILD. 212 00:06:07,495 --> 00:06:09,957 CHILD. BUT LAURINO TOLD US, DOCTORS OR 213 00:06:09,957 --> 00:06:12,132 BUT LAURINO TOLD US, DOCTORS OR LAWYERS SOMETIMES SIGNED THE 214 00:06:12,132 --> 00:06:15,858 LAWYERS SOMETIMES SIGNED THE CONSENT WITHOUT TELLING THE 215 00:06:15,858 --> 00:06:16,099 CONSENT WITHOUT TELLING THE MOTHER. 216 00:06:16,099 --> 00:06:16,660 MOTHER. OTHERS WERE DELIBERATELY 217 00:06:16,660 --> 00:06:16,891 OTHERS WERE DELIBERATELY MISLED. 218 00:06:16,891 --> 00:06:19,165 MISLED. >> THERE WERE WOMEN WHO WERE 219 00:06:19,165 --> 00:06:21,033 >> THERE WERE WOMEN WHO WERE TRAPPED INTO THIS SITUATION, 220 00:06:21,033 --> 00:06:22,924 TRAPPED INTO THIS SITUATION, AND TREMENDOUS PRESSURE TO 221 00:06:22,924 --> 00:06:23,528 AND TREMENDOUS PRESSURE TO RELINQUISH THEIR CHILDREN. 222 00:06:23,528 --> 00:06:25,066 RELINQUISH THEIR CHILDREN. THERE WERE WOMEN WHO WERE -- 223 00:06:25,066 --> 00:06:27,660 THERE WERE WOMEN WHO WERE -- WERE TRICKED WHO SIGNED FORMS 224 00:06:27,660 --> 00:06:28,792 WERE TRICKED WHO SIGNED FORMS THEY DIDN’T UNDERSTAND. 225 00:06:28,792 --> 00:06:29,957 THEY DIDN’T UNDERSTAND. IN THE WORST CASES, THERE WERE 226 00:06:29,957 --> 00:06:32,231 IN THE WORST CASES, THERE WERE WOMEN WHO WERE TOLD THEIR CHILD 227 00:06:32,231 --> 00:06:32,495 WOMEN WHO WERE TOLD THEIR CHILD HAD DIED. 228 00:06:32,495 --> 00:06:34,066 HAD DIED. >> TOLD THEIR CHILD HAD DIED? 229 00:06:34,066 --> 00:06:34,396 >> TOLD THEIR CHILD HAD DIED? >> YES. 230 00:06:34,396 --> 00:06:37,099 >> YES. >> WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT? 231 00:06:37,099 --> 00:06:41,330 >> WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT? >> YEAH, IT’S SO -- IT’S SO 232 00:06:41,330 --> 00:06:41,594 >> YEAH, IT’S SO -- IT’S SO HORRIBLE. 233 00:06:41,594 --> 00:06:43,561 HORRIBLE. THINKING I’VE BEEN TOLD WAS 234 00:06:43,561 --> 00:06:45,891 THINKING I’VE BEEN TOLD WAS THAT IT WAS AN EASY, EASIER 235 00:06:45,891 --> 00:06:47,429 THAT IT WAS AN EASY, EASIER PSYCHOLOGICAL CLOSURE TO TELL A 236 00:06:47,429 --> 00:06:49,429 PSYCHOLOGICAL CLOSURE TO TELL A BIRTH MOTHER THAT HER CHILD HAD 237 00:06:49,429 --> 00:06:52,396 BIRTH MOTHER THAT HER CHILD HAD DIED THAN TO LET HER KNOW THAT 238 00:06:52,396 --> 00:06:54,495 DIED THAN TO LET HER KNOW THAT HER CHILD HAD BEEN GIVEN UP FOR 239 00:06:54,495 --> 00:06:54,759 HER CHILD HAD BEEN GIVEN UP FOR ADOPTION. 240 00:06:54,759 --> 00:06:55,858 ADOPTION. >> SO REPRESENTATIVES OF THE 241 00:06:55,858 --> 00:06:57,528 >> SO REPRESENTATIVES OF THE CHURCH WERE TELLING THESE 242 00:06:57,528 --> 00:07:00,198 CHURCH WERE TELLING THESE MOTHERS THAT THEIR CHILDREN HAD 243 00:07:00,198 --> 00:07:01,561 MOTHERS THAT THEIR CHILDREN HAD DIED, WHEN IN FACT THEY HAD 244 00:07:01,561 --> 00:07:05,297 DIED, WHEN IN FACT THEY HAD NOT, AND THEY HAD BEEN SENT TO 245 00:07:05,297 --> 00:07:05,726 NOT, AND THEY HAD BEEN SENT TO THE UNITED STATES? 246 00:07:05,726 --> 00:07:06,000 THE UNITED STATES? >> YES. 247 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:07,627 >> YES. >> LAURINO TOLD US MANY MORE 248 00:07:07,627 --> 00:07:09,462 >> LAURINO TOLD US MANY MORE WOMEN WERE TOLD THEY COULD GET 249 00:07:09,462 --> 00:07:11,396 WOMEN WERE TOLD THEY COULD GET THEIR CHILDREN BACK. 250 00:07:11,396 --> 00:07:13,462 THEIR CHILDREN BACK. SHE FOUND LETTERS FROM 251 00:07:13,462 --> 00:07:14,561 SHE FOUND LETTERS FROM DISTRAUGHT MOTHERS PLEADING FOR 252 00:07:14,561 --> 00:07:15,165 DISTRAUGHT MOTHERS PLEADING FOR THEIR CHILDREN. 253 00:07:15,165 --> 00:07:16,594 THEIR CHILDREN. NOW, THESE ARE LETTERS THAT 254 00:07:16,594 --> 00:07:18,858 NOW, THESE ARE LETTERS THAT WERE FOUND IN THE ARCHIVES? 255 00:07:18,858 --> 00:07:19,660 WERE FOUND IN THE ARCHIVES? >> THAT’S CORRECT. 256 00:07:19,660 --> 00:07:22,594 >> THAT’S CORRECT. THIS IS A LETTER TO REVEREND 257 00:07:22,594 --> 00:07:23,132 THIS IS A LETTER TO REVEREND LANDI, MONSIGNOR LANDI. 258 00:07:23,132 --> 00:07:25,594 LANDI, MONSIGNOR LANDI. I BEG THAT MY CHILDREN BE 259 00:07:25,594 --> 00:07:25,924 I BEG THAT MY CHILDREN BE REPATRIATED. 260 00:07:25,924 --> 00:07:27,099 REPATRIATED. IF I CANNOT YET AGAIN SEE MY 261 00:07:27,099 --> 00:07:28,594 IF I CANNOT YET AGAIN SEE MY CHILDREN, I WILL SHORTEN MY 262 00:07:28,594 --> 00:07:28,792 CHILDREN, I WILL SHORTEN MY LIFE. 263 00:07:28,792 --> 00:07:31,363 LIFE. I FIND MYSELF DECEIVED, AND I 264 00:07:31,363 --> 00:07:33,363 I FIND MYSELF DECEIVED, AND I DO NOT EVEN KNOW HOW. 265 00:07:33,363 --> 00:07:34,825 DO NOT EVEN KNOW HOW. >> MONSIGNOR LANDI WAS ANDREW 266 00:07:34,825 --> 00:07:35,858 >> MONSIGNOR LANDI WAS ANDREW LANDI, AN AMERICAN PRIEST 267 00:07:35,858 --> 00:07:39,891 LANDI, AN AMERICAN PRIEST LIVING IN ROME WHO RAN THE 268 00:07:39,891 --> 00:07:40,264 LIVING IN ROME WHO RAN THE ORPHAN PROGRAM. 269 00:07:40,264 --> 00:07:43,726 ORPHAN PROGRAM. LANDI’S BOSS HAD THE EAR OF THE 270 00:07:43,726 --> 00:07:43,924 LANDI’S BOSS HAD THE EAR OF THE POPE. 271 00:07:43,924 --> 00:07:47,627 POPE. IN 1951, POPE PIUS THE 12th 272 00:07:47,627 --> 00:07:49,165 IN 1951, POPE PIUS THE 12th PERSONALLY SAW THE FIRST 273 00:07:49,165 --> 00:07:50,066 PERSONALLY SAW THE FIRST CHILDREN OFF. 274 00:07:50,066 --> 00:07:50,891 CHILDREN OFF. THOUSANDS MORE WOULD FOLLOW. 275 00:07:50,891 --> 00:07:53,000 THOUSANDS MORE WOULD FOLLOW. HOW COULD THEY BE DEFINED AS 276 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:53,264 HOW COULD THEY BE DEFINED AS ORPHANS? 277 00:07:53,264 --> 00:07:53,561 ORPHANS? >> I KNOW. 278 00:07:53,561 --> 00:07:55,330 >> I KNOW. >> IF THEY STILL HAVE A MOTHER, 279 00:07:55,330 --> 00:07:57,693 >> IF THEY STILL HAVE A MOTHER, AND IN MANY CASES, A FATHER 280 00:07:57,693 --> 00:07:58,033 AND IN MANY CASES, A FATHER STILL ALIVE? 281 00:07:58,033 --> 00:08:00,165 STILL ALIVE? >> YES, AND TO TALK TO THE 282 00:08:00,165 --> 00:08:01,594 >> YES, AND TO TALK TO THE ADOPTED CHILDREN TODAY, UM, 283 00:08:01,594 --> 00:08:03,528 ADOPTED CHILDREN TODAY, UM, THEY GET VERY ANGRY TO SAY I’M 284 00:08:03,528 --> 00:08:04,627 THEY GET VERY ANGRY TO SAY I’M NOT AN ORPHAN, YOU KNOW? 285 00:08:04,627 --> 00:08:06,660 NOT AN ORPHAN, YOU KNOW? I SPENT YEARS SEARCHING FOR MY 286 00:08:06,660 --> 00:08:06,924 I SPENT YEARS SEARCHING FOR MY PARENTS. 287 00:08:06,924 --> 00:08:10,660 PARENTS. UM, BUT IT WAS A LINGUISTIC 288 00:08:10,660 --> 00:08:11,000 UM, BUT IT WAS A LINGUISTIC CONSTRUCTION. 289 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:16,825 CONSTRUCTION. >> THE CHURCH CHARGED $475 PER 290 00:08:16,825 --> 00:08:17,066 >> THE CHURCH CHARGED $475 PER CHILD. 291 00:08:17,066 --> 00:08:17,627 CHILD. ABOUT $4,500 TODAY. 292 00:08:17,627 --> 00:08:19,858 ABOUT $4,500 TODAY. BUT LAURINO TOLD US THE DEMAND 293 00:08:19,858 --> 00:08:20,759 BUT LAURINO TOLD US THE DEMAND FROM EAGER AMERICAN CATHOLICS 294 00:08:20,759 --> 00:08:23,429 FROM EAGER AMERICAN CATHOLICS GREW SO FAST THAT MONSIGNOR 295 00:08:23,429 --> 00:08:24,957 GREW SO FAST THAT MONSIGNOR LANDI SENT LOCAL PRIESTS TO 296 00:08:24,957 --> 00:08:27,660 LANDI SENT LOCAL PRIESTS TO SCOUR THE COUNTRYSIDE FOR MORE 297 00:08:27,660 --> 00:08:27,924 SCOUR THE COUNTRYSIDE FOR MORE CHILDREN. 298 00:08:27,924 --> 00:08:29,495 CHILDREN. >> THE CORRESPONDENCE SHOWS 299 00:08:29,495 --> 00:08:30,825 >> THE CORRESPONDENCE SHOWS THAT THEY TRAVELED THROUGHOUT 300 00:08:30,825 --> 00:08:33,957 THAT THEY TRAVELED THROUGHOUT ITALY LOOKING FOR CASES, FOR 301 00:08:33,957 --> 00:08:34,363 ITALY LOOKING FOR CASES, FOR CHILDREN TO SEND. 302 00:08:34,363 --> 00:08:35,957 CHILDREN TO SEND. >> LITERALLY LOOKING FOR -- 303 00:08:35,957 --> 00:08:36,132 >> LITERALLY LOOKING FOR -- >> 304 00:08:36,132 --> 00:08:37,264 >> YES, THERE’S A -- 305 00:08:37,264 --> 00:08:37,495 YES, THERE’S A -- >> 306 00:08:37,495 --> 00:08:38,825 >> BABIES BORN OUT OF WEDLOCK? 307 00:08:38,825 --> 00:08:39,132 BABIES BORN OUT OF WEDLOCK? >> YES. 308 00:08:39,132 --> 00:08:40,957 >> YES. >> IT ACTUALLY TURNED INTO A 309 00:08:40,957 --> 00:08:41,231 >> IT ACTUALLY TURNED INTO A MACHINE? 310 00:08:41,231 --> 00:08:41,528 MACHINE? >> YES. 311 00:08:41,528 --> 00:08:42,693 >> YES. >> LOOKING FOR BABIES TO SEND 312 00:08:42,693 --> 00:08:45,462 >> LOOKING FOR BABIES TO SEND TO THE UNITED STATES? 313 00:08:45,462 --> 00:08:45,759 TO THE UNITED STATES? >> RIGHT. 314 00:08:45,759 --> 00:08:48,825 >> RIGHT. >> JOHN CAMPITELLI TOLD US HE 315 00:08:48,825 --> 00:08:51,132 >> JOHN CAMPITELLI TOLD US HE HAD A LOVING FAMILY IN NEW 316 00:08:51,132 --> 00:08:51,330 HAD A LOVING FAMILY IN NEW YORK. 317 00:08:51,330 --> 00:08:52,792 YORK. BUT WHEN HE FOUND OUT HE WAS 318 00:08:52,792 --> 00:08:54,924 BUT WHEN HE FOUND OUT HE WAS ADOPTED, HE SAID HE BECAME 319 00:08:54,924 --> 00:08:57,033 ADOPTED, HE SAID HE BECAME OBSESSED WITH FINDING HIS BIRTH 320 00:08:57,033 --> 00:08:57,264 OBSESSED WITH FINDING HIS BIRTH MOTHER. 321 00:08:57,264 --> 00:08:59,528 MOTHER. THERE WERE FEW CLUES, EVEN HIS 322 00:08:59,528 --> 00:09:01,396 THERE WERE FEW CLUES, EVEN HIS SURNAME, DAVI, WAS A DEAD END. 323 00:09:01,396 --> 00:09:05,000 SURNAME, DAVI, WAS A DEAD END. INVENTED BY THE STATE TO CUT 324 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:05,264 INVENTED BY THE STATE TO CUT ALL TIES. 325 00:09:05,264 --> 00:09:06,561 ALL TIES. FINALLY, HE PERSUADED AN 326 00:09:06,561 --> 00:09:08,132 FINALLY, HE PERSUADED AN ITALIAN NEWSPAPER TO PUBLISH 327 00:09:08,132 --> 00:09:10,792 ITALIAN NEWSPAPER TO PUBLISH HIS STORY, AND THEN A 328 00:09:10,792 --> 00:09:11,132 HIS STORY, AND THEN A BREAKTHROUGH. 329 00:09:11,132 --> 00:09:12,231 BREAKTHROUGH. SOMEONE KNEW HIS MOTHER. 330 00:09:12,231 --> 00:09:17,099 SOMEONE KNEW HIS MOTHER. IN 1991, HE SPOKE TO HER FOR 331 00:09:17,099 --> 00:09:17,462 IN 1991, HE SPOKE TO HER FOR THE FIRST TIME. 332 00:09:17,462 --> 00:09:21,561 THE FIRST TIME. >> SHE SAID, ALL RIGHT, ARE YOU 333 00:09:21,561 --> 00:09:21,792 >> SHE SAID, ALL RIGHT, ARE YOU PIERO? 334 00:09:21,792 --> 00:09:22,528 PIERO? WELL, NO, I’M JOHN. 335 00:09:22,528 --> 00:09:24,660 WELL, NO, I’M JOHN. OH WELL NO, I’M REALLY PIERO. 336 00:09:24,660 --> 00:09:25,297 OH WELL NO, I’M REALLY PIERO. OKAY, I’M YOUR SON. 337 00:09:25,297 --> 00:09:27,429 OKAY, I’M YOUR SON. >> SO YOU WERE NERVOUS, I TAKE 338 00:09:27,429 --> 00:09:27,594 >> SO YOU WERE NERVOUS, I TAKE IT? 339 00:09:27,594 --> 00:09:28,792 IT? >> I WAS REALLY NERVOUS BECAUSE 340 00:09:28,792 --> 00:09:29,957 >> I WAS REALLY NERVOUS BECAUSE IT’S SOMETHING I ALWAYS WANTED 341 00:09:29,957 --> 00:09:30,198 IT’S SOMETHING I ALWAYS WANTED TO DO. 342 00:09:30,198 --> 00:09:31,627 TO DO. BUT WHEN THE MOMENT COMES, YOU 343 00:09:31,627 --> 00:09:32,495 BUT WHEN THE MOMENT COMES, YOU KNOW, YOU’RE LIKE -- 344 00:09:32,495 --> 00:09:33,033 KNOW, YOU’RE LIKE -- >> 345 00:09:33,033 --> 00:09:34,099 >> KIND OF TONGUE TIED? 346 00:09:34,099 --> 00:09:35,000 KIND OF TONGUE TIED? >> YEAH, YEAH. 347 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:35,858 >> YEAH, YEAH. I WAS TONGUE TIED. 348 00:09:35,858 --> 00:09:37,627 I WAS TONGUE TIED. I FINALLY GET TO TALK TO THE 349 00:09:37,627 --> 00:09:40,297 I FINALLY GET TO TALK TO THE PERSON THAT ACTUALLY GAVE BIRTH 350 00:09:40,297 --> 00:09:42,759 PERSON THAT ACTUALLY GAVE BIRTH TO ME THAT -- THAT HELD ME, 351 00:09:42,759 --> 00:09:43,462 TO ME THAT -- THAT HELD ME, THAT BREAST-FED ME FOR TWO, 352 00:09:43,462 --> 00:09:44,099 THAT BREAST-FED ME FOR TWO, THREE 353 00:09:44,099 --> 00:09:45,165 THREE DAYS IN THE HOSPITAL. 354 00:09:45,165 --> 00:09:46,891 DAYS IN THE HOSPITAL. SO I KNOW THAT SHE LOVED ME. 355 00:09:46,891 --> 00:09:48,528 SO I KNOW THAT SHE LOVED ME. >> WHAT WAS HER VOICE LIKE TO 356 00:09:48,528 --> 00:09:48,726 >> WHAT WAS HER VOICE LIKE TO YOU? 357 00:09:48,726 --> 00:09:52,264 YOU? >> BROUGHT ME TO TEARS, I MUST 358 00:09:52,264 --> 00:09:52,495 >> BROUGHT ME TO TEARS, I MUST ADMIT. 359 00:09:52,495 --> 00:09:53,594 ADMIT. AND WE SAID WE WERE NEVER GOING 360 00:09:53,594 --> 00:09:56,957 AND WE SAID WE WERE NEVER GOING TO LET GO OF EACH OTHER FROM 361 00:09:56,957 --> 00:09:57,231 TO LET GO OF EACH OTHER FROM THEN ON. 362 00:09:57,231 --> 00:09:58,891 THEN ON. >> TWO MONTHS LATER, HE WAS ON 363 00:09:58,891 --> 00:10:00,858 >> TWO MONTHS LATER, HE WAS ON A FLIGHT TO ITALY. 364 00:10:00,858 --> 00:10:01,858 A FLIGHT TO ITALY. >> WE HAD EXCHANGED 365 00:10:01,858 --> 00:10:03,198 >> WE HAD EXCHANGED PHOTOGRAPHS, BUT I SAID I 366 00:10:03,198 --> 00:10:04,198 PHOTOGRAPHS, BUT I SAID I DIDN’T NEED A PHOTOGRAPH 367 00:10:04,198 --> 00:10:05,033 DIDN’T NEED A PHOTOGRAPH BECAUSE I SAW THAT LADY THERE 368 00:10:05,033 --> 00:10:06,693 BECAUSE I SAW THAT LADY THERE IN FRONT OF ME, AND I SAID 369 00:10:06,693 --> 00:10:07,462 IN FRONT OF ME, AND I SAID THAT’S MY MOM. 370 00:10:07,462 --> 00:10:08,660 THAT’S MY MOM. SHE LOOKS IDENTICAL TO ME. 371 00:10:08,660 --> 00:10:10,132 SHE LOOKS IDENTICAL TO ME. AND AFTER 28 YEARS, I COULD SAY 372 00:10:10,132 --> 00:10:12,396 AND AFTER 28 YEARS, I COULD SAY THAT I JUST RAN OVER TO HER, 373 00:10:12,396 --> 00:10:13,099 THAT I JUST RAN OVER TO HER, AND I EMBRACED HER. 374 00:10:13,099 --> 00:10:15,363 AND I EMBRACED HER. AND I SAID, MOM, FINALLY, AND I 375 00:10:15,363 --> 00:10:15,693 AND I SAID, MOM, FINALLY, AND I KISSED HER. 376 00:10:15,693 --> 00:10:18,000 KISSED HER. I SAID, MOM, NO ONE HAD TO TELL 377 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:19,792 I SAID, MOM, NO ONE HAD TO TELL ME WHO YOU WERE, I KNEW WHO YOU 378 00:10:19,792 --> 00:10:20,000 ME WHO YOU WERE, I KNEW WHO YOU WERE. 379 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,198 WERE. I JUST HAD TO LOOK AT YOU. 380 00:10:23,198 --> 00:10:24,528 I JUST HAD TO LOOK AT YOU. >> CAMPITELLI MOVED TO ITALY 381 00:10:24,528 --> 00:10:25,957 >> CAMPITELLI MOVED TO ITALY AND LEARNED ITALIAN TO SPEAK TO 382 00:10:25,957 --> 00:10:26,528 AND LEARNED ITALIAN TO SPEAK TO HIS BIRTH FAMILY. 383 00:10:26,528 --> 00:10:27,924 HIS BIRTH FAMILY. BUT HE TOLD US THAT DIDN’T UNDO 384 00:10:27,924 --> 00:10:29,528 BUT HE TOLD US THAT DIDN’T UNDO THE SUFFERING THE CHURCH HAD 385 00:10:29,528 --> 00:10:29,759 THE SUFFERING THE CHURCH HAD CAUSED. 386 00:10:29,759 --> 00:10:31,594 CAUSED. >> I FELT THAT MY WHOLE LIFE 387 00:10:31,594 --> 00:10:34,198 >> I FELT THAT MY WHOLE LIFE WAS BASED ON A LIE. 388 00:10:34,198 --> 00:10:35,561 WAS BASED ON A LIE. THEY TOLD HER THAT THEY WOULD 389 00:10:35,561 --> 00:10:37,231 THEY TOLD HER THAT THEY WOULD TAKE CARE OF ME, AND THAT WAS A 390 00:10:37,231 --> 00:10:37,429 TAKE CARE OF ME, AND THAT WAS A LIE. 391 00:10:37,429 --> 00:10:38,594 LIE. THEY GOT RID OF ME. 392 00:10:38,594 --> 00:10:40,429 THEY GOT RID OF ME. THEY DIDN’T TAKE CARE OF ME. 393 00:10:40,429 --> 00:10:42,198 THEY DIDN’T TAKE CARE OF ME. THEY CUT ALL RELATIONSHIP THAT 394 00:10:42,198 --> 00:10:43,462 THEY CUT ALL RELATIONSHIP THAT I COULD POSSIBLY HAVE WITH MY 395 00:10:43,462 --> 00:10:45,198 I COULD POSSIBLY HAVE WITH MY BIRTH FAMILY, AND THEY SHIPPED 396 00:10:45,198 --> 00:10:45,594 BIRTH FAMILY, AND THEY SHIPPED ME OVERSEAS. 397 00:10:45,594 --> 00:10:48,891 ME OVERSEAS. I BECAME A PACKAGE FOR THEM. 398 00:10:48,891 --> 00:10:50,561 I BECAME A PACKAGE FOR THEM. >> TO THIS DAY, THE CHURCH 399 00:10:50,561 --> 00:10:51,528 >> TO THIS DAY, THE CHURCH INSISTS THE ORPHAN PROGRAM WAS 400 00:10:51,528 --> 00:10:54,396 INSISTS THE ORPHAN PROGRAM WAS THE ONLY CHANCE FOR A NEW LIFE 401 00:10:54,396 --> 00:10:55,198 THE ONLY CHANCE FOR A NEW LIFE FOR THESE CHILDREN. 402 00:10:55,198 --> 00:10:56,561 FOR THESE CHILDREN. LAURINO TOLD US, MONSIGNOR 403 00:10:56,561 --> 00:10:59,429 LAURINO TOLD US, MONSIGNOR LANDI, WHO RAN THE PROGRAM, 404 00:10:59,429 --> 00:11:03,957 LANDI, WHO RAN THE PROGRAM, DIED IN 1999 WITHOUT EVER 405 00:11:03,957 --> 00:11:04,495 DIED IN 1999 WITHOUT EVER EXPRESSING ANY REGRETS. 406 00:11:04,495 --> 00:11:06,363 EXPRESSING ANY REGRETS. >> I THINK THAT HE BELIEVED IN 407 00:11:06,363 --> 00:11:08,627 >> I THINK THAT HE BELIEVED IN THE MERIT OF THE PROGRAM, THAT 408 00:11:08,627 --> 00:11:10,627 THE MERIT OF THE PROGRAM, THAT THEY WERE BRINGING CHILDREN TO 409 00:11:10,627 --> 00:11:11,693 THEY WERE BRINGING CHILDREN TO GOOD CATHOLIC HOMES, AND THAT 410 00:11:11,693 --> 00:11:13,396 GOOD CATHOLIC HOMES, AND THAT THESE CHILDREN WOULD BE RAISED 411 00:11:13,396 --> 00:11:14,396 THESE CHILDREN WOULD BE RAISED WELL IN THE UNITED STATES. 412 00:11:14,396 --> 00:11:16,858 WELL IN THE UNITED STATES. >> BUT HOW DOES THAT 413 00:11:16,858 --> 00:11:18,528 >> BUT HOW DOES THAT EXPLANATION SIT WITH YOU NOW? 414 00:11:18,528 --> 00:11:18,858 EXPLANATION SIT WITH YOU NOW? >> TERRIBLY. 415 00:11:18,858 --> 00:11:22,198 >> TERRIBLY. I MEAN BECAUSE THIS IS HOW 416 00:11:22,198 --> 00:11:22,759 I MEAN BECAUSE THIS IS HOW WOMEN WERE TREATED. 417 00:11:22,759 --> 00:11:26,198 WOMEN WERE TREATED. AND THIS IS WHY I THINK OF THEM 418 00:11:26,198 --> 00:11:27,594 AND THIS IS WHY I THINK OF THEM AS DISPOSABLE WOMEN. 419 00:11:27,594 --> 00:11:28,000 AS DISPOSABLE WOMEN. >> DISPOSABLE? 420 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:28,264 >> DISPOSABLE? >> YEAH. 421 00:11:28,264 --> 00:11:31,165 >> YEAH. IT’S A TERRIBLE THING TO GIVE 422 00:11:31,165 --> 00:11:32,099 IT’S A TERRIBLE THING TO GIVE UP YOUR CHILD. 423 00:11:32,099 --> 00:11:36,429 UP YOUR CHILD. BUT NOBODY WAS THINKING ABOUT 424 00:11:36,429 --> 00:11:37,825 BUT NOBODY WAS THINKING ABOUT THESE WOMEN THEN. 425 00:11:37,825 --> 00:11:39,198 THESE WOMEN THEN. >> AMERICAN ADOPTEE MARY 426 00:11:39,198 --> 00:11:41,726 >> AMERICAN ADOPTEE MARY RELOTTO TRAVELS OFTEN TO ITALY 427 00:11:41,726 --> 00:11:42,363 RELOTTO TRAVELS OFTEN TO ITALY TO SEE HER BIRTH FAMILY. 428 00:11:42,363 --> 00:11:45,297 TO SEE HER BIRTH FAMILY. SHE TOLD US SHE HAD A HAPPY 429 00:11:45,297 --> 00:11:46,231 SHE TOLD US SHE HAD A HAPPY LIFE GROWING UP IN OHIO. 430 00:11:46,231 --> 00:11:48,825 LIFE GROWING UP IN OHIO. BUT SHE SAYS SHE LONGED FOR A 431 00:11:48,825 --> 00:11:51,264 BUT SHE SAYS SHE LONGED FOR A LARGE FAMILY, ONLY TO FIND OUT 432 00:11:51,264 --> 00:11:53,264 LARGE FAMILY, ONLY TO FIND OUT SHE HAD ONE. 433 00:11:53,264 --> 00:11:56,264 SHE HAD ONE. IT WAS 1992 WHEN SHE FIRST MET 434 00:11:56,264 --> 00:11:57,363 IT WAS 1992 WHEN SHE FIRST MET ANNA MARIA, HER BIRTH MOTHER. 435 00:11:57,363 --> 00:11:59,264 ANNA MARIA, HER BIRTH MOTHER. >> THE ONLY THING I COULD DO 436 00:11:59,264 --> 00:12:00,363 >> THE ONLY THING I COULD DO WAS STARE AND LOOK AT EVERY 437 00:12:00,363 --> 00:12:03,165 WAS STARE AND LOOK AT EVERY INCH OF HER FOR AT LEAST AN 438 00:12:03,165 --> 00:12:03,363 INCH OF HER FOR AT LEAST AN HOUR. 439 00:12:03,363 --> 00:12:04,066 HOUR. >> AND YOU’RE DUMBFOUNDED? 440 00:12:04,066 --> 00:12:05,528 >> AND YOU’RE DUMBFOUNDED? >> NOT ONLY DOES SHE LOOK LIKE 441 00:12:05,528 --> 00:12:07,363 >> NOT ONLY DOES SHE LOOK LIKE ME, BUT SHE ACTS LIKE ME. 442 00:12:07,363 --> 00:12:08,726 ME, BUT SHE ACTS LIKE ME. I ACT LIKE HER. 443 00:12:08,726 --> 00:12:09,363 I ACT LIKE HER. WE’RE THE SAME WEIGHT. 444 00:12:09,363 --> 00:12:11,165 WE’RE THE SAME WEIGHT. IT’S ALMOST LIKE THIS IS MY 445 00:12:11,165 --> 00:12:11,825 IT’S ALMOST LIKE THIS IS MY TWIN, BUT OLDER. 446 00:12:11,825 --> 00:12:13,132 TWIN, BUT OLDER. I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT I’M GOING 447 00:12:13,132 --> 00:12:14,561 I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT I’M GOING TO LOOK LIKE WHEN I GET OLDER. 448 00:12:14,561 --> 00:12:18,198 TO LOOK LIKE WHEN I GET OLDER. SO NOW I PAY ATTENTION TO MY 449 00:12:18,198 --> 00:12:18,429 SO NOW I PAY ATTENTION TO MY HEALTH. 450 00:12:18,429 --> 00:12:18,759 HEALTH. [ LAUGHTER ] 451 00:12:18,759 --> 00:12:20,033 [ LAUGHTER ] >> MOTHER AND DAUGHTER SAY THEY 452 00:12:20,033 --> 00:12:22,132 >> MOTHER AND DAUGHTER SAY THEY ARE STILL LEARNING ABOUT EACH 453 00:12:22,132 --> 00:12:22,363 ARE STILL LEARNING ABOUT EACH OTHER. 454 00:12:22,363 --> 00:12:23,726 OTHER. RELOTTO TOLD US IT WAS YEARS 455 00:12:23,726 --> 00:12:25,858 RELOTTO TOLD US IT WAS YEARS BEFORE SHE COULD ASK THE MOST 456 00:12:25,858 --> 00:12:27,165 BEFORE SHE COULD ASK THE MOST PAINFUL QUESTION OF ALL. 457 00:12:27,165 --> 00:12:28,594 PAINFUL QUESTION OF ALL. WHY WAS SHE GIVEN AWAY? 458 00:12:28,594 --> 00:12:31,759 WHY WAS SHE GIVEN AWAY? >> I JUST NEEDED TO KNOW HER 459 00:12:31,759 --> 00:12:34,462 >> I JUST NEEDED TO KNOW HER STORY, HER TRUTH BECAUSE NO 460 00:12:34,462 --> 00:12:37,165 STORY, HER TRUTH BECAUSE NO MOTHER GIVES UP THEIR CHILD SO 461 00:12:37,165 --> 00:12:37,693 MOTHER GIVES UP THEIR CHILD SO WILLINGLY WITHOUT GRIEF. 462 00:12:37,693 --> 00:12:40,231 WILLINGLY WITHOUT GRIEF. >> DO YOU NOW UNDERSTAND WHY 463 00:12:40,231 --> 00:12:40,627 >> DO YOU NOW UNDERSTAND WHY SHE GAVE YOU UP? 464 00:12:40,627 --> 00:12:42,000 SHE GAVE YOU UP? >> BECAUSE SHE DIDN’T HAVE A 465 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,396 >> BECAUSE SHE DIDN’T HAVE A PIECE OF BREAD, SHE SAID, TO 466 00:12:45,396 --> 00:12:45,660 PIECE OF BREAD, SHE SAID, TO GIVE US. 467 00:12:45,660 --> 00:12:46,000 GIVE US. >> POVERTY. 468 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:46,957 >> POVERTY. >> SHE DIDN’T HAVE CLOTHES FOR 469 00:12:46,957 --> 00:12:47,132 >> SHE DIDN’T HAVE CLOTHES FOR US. 470 00:12:47,132 --> 00:12:51,165 US. SHE WAS IN A DESPERATE 471 00:12:51,165 --> 00:12:51,660 SHE WAS IN A DESPERATE SITUATION, YOU KNOW? 472 00:12:51,660 --> 00:12:53,594 SITUATION, YOU KNOW? SO INSTEAD OF THE CHURCH 473 00:12:53,594 --> 00:12:56,033 SO INSTEAD OF THE CHURCH HELPING HER MAINTAIN A HOUSE 474 00:12:56,033 --> 00:12:59,099 HELPING HER MAINTAIN A HOUSE AND FEED HER CHILDREN, INSTEAD 475 00:12:59,099 --> 00:13:04,000 AND FEED HER CHILDREN, INSTEAD THEY -- THEY TOOK HER CHILDREN. 476 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:04,825 THEY -- THEY TOOK HER CHILDREN. >> GRAZIE A CRISTO. 477 00:13:04,825 --> 00:13:08,330 >> GRAZIE A CRISTO. >> ANNA MARIA IS NOW 83. 478 00:13:08,330 --> 00:13:10,066 >> ANNA MARIA IS NOW 83. SHE AGREED TO SPEAK WITH US IF 479 00:13:10,066 --> 00:13:11,726 SHE AGREED TO SPEAK WITH US IF WE WITHHELD HER LAST NAME. 480 00:13:11,726 --> 00:13:13,396 WE WITHHELD HER LAST NAME. EVEN DECADES LATER, A STIGMA OF 481 00:13:13,396 --> 00:13:16,858 EVEN DECADES LATER, A STIGMA OF HAVING CHILDREN OUT OF WEDLOCK 482 00:13:16,858 --> 00:13:17,132 HAVING CHILDREN OUT OF WEDLOCK REMAINS. 483 00:13:17,132 --> 00:13:18,462 REMAINS. SHE TOLD US ABOUT HER OTHER 484 00:13:18,462 --> 00:13:20,297 SHE TOLD US ABOUT HER OTHER CHILD, CHRISTIAN, WHO WAS SENT 485 00:13:20,297 --> 00:13:22,330 CHILD, CHRISTIAN, WHO WAS SENT TO A CHURCH-RUN INSTITUTION 486 00:13:22,330 --> 00:13:22,825 TO A CHURCH-RUN INSTITUTION WHEN SHE BECAME ILL. 487 00:13:22,825 --> 00:13:24,561 WHEN SHE BECAME ILL. BUT WHEN SHE WENT TO PICK HIM 488 00:13:24,561 --> 00:13:31,264 BUT WHEN SHE WENT TO PICK HIM UP, SHE SAYS THE NUNS TOLD HER 489 00:13:31,264 --> 00:13:34,165 UP, SHE SAYS THE NUNS TOLD HER HE HAD DIED. 490 00:13:34,165 --> 00:13:36,594 HE HAD DIED. >> I WENT INTO DEPRESSION, ANNA 491 00:13:36,594 --> 00:13:36,957 >> I WENT INTO DEPRESSION, ANNA MARIA TOLD US. 492 00:13:36,957 --> 00:13:39,363 MARIA TOLD US. I SEARCHED FOR HIM EVERYWHERE. 493 00:13:39,363 --> 00:13:41,198 I SEARCHED FOR HIM EVERYWHERE. HOW DID HE DIE? 494 00:13:41,198 --> 00:13:42,099 HOW DID HE DIE? WHERE WAS HE BURIED? 495 00:13:42,099 --> 00:13:42,792 WHERE WAS HE BURIED? NOBODY COULD TELL ME. 496 00:13:42,792 --> 00:13:47,099 NOBODY COULD TELL ME. >> DID YOU BELIEVE THAT YOUR 497 00:13:47,099 --> 00:13:47,495 >> DID YOU BELIEVE THAT YOUR SON WAS DEAD? 498 00:13:47,495 --> 00:13:50,264 SON WAS DEAD? >> SOMETHING INSIDE ME DIDN’T 499 00:13:50,264 --> 00:13:50,594 >> SOMETHING INSIDE ME DIDN’T FEEL RIGHT. 500 00:13:50,594 --> 00:13:54,000 FEEL RIGHT. BUT I COULD DO NOTHING ABOUT 501 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:54,165 BUT I COULD DO NOTHING ABOUT IT. 502 00:13:54,165 --> 00:13:55,891 IT. >> BUT CHRISTIAN HAD NOT DIED. 503 00:13:55,891 --> 00:13:57,957 >> BUT CHRISTIAN HAD NOT DIED. HE TOLD US HE LEARNED THE TRUTH 504 00:13:57,957 --> 00:14:01,891 HE TOLD US HE LEARNED THE TRUTH ABOUT HIS MOTHER AT AGE 40. 505 00:14:01,891 --> 00:14:03,000 ABOUT HIS MOTHER AT AGE 40. ANNA MARIA SAYS THE CHURCH HAD 506 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:07,066 ANNA MARIA SAYS THE CHURCH HAD PUT HIM UP FOR ADOPTION WITHOUT 507 00:14:07,066 --> 00:14:07,396 PUT HIM UP FOR ADOPTION WITHOUT TELLING HER. 508 00:14:07,396 --> 00:14:09,561 TELLING HER. >> IT WAS A SWINDLE, SHE TOLD 509 00:14:09,561 --> 00:14:09,726 >> IT WAS A SWINDLE, SHE TOLD US. 510 00:14:09,726 --> 00:14:11,627 US. THEY STOLE A CHILD THAT THEY 511 00:14:11,627 --> 00:14:11,858 THEY STOLE A CHILD THAT THEY WANTED. 512 00:14:11,858 --> 00:14:16,462 WANTED. >> SO WHAT WAS IT LIKE FOR YOU 513 00:14:16,462 --> 00:14:19,132 >> SO WHAT WAS IT LIKE FOR YOU WHEN YOU FOUND THAT CHRISTIAN 514 00:14:19,132 --> 00:14:20,627 WHEN YOU FOUND THAT CHRISTIAN WAS, IN FACT, ALIVE? 515 00:14:20,627 --> 00:14:23,924 WAS, IN FACT, ALIVE? >> I HAVE NO WORDS, SHE TOLD 516 00:14:23,924 --> 00:14:24,099 >> I HAVE NO WORDS, SHE TOLD US. 517 00:14:24,099 --> 00:14:31,825 US. THERE WERE LOTS OF TEARS AND 518 00:14:31,825 --> 00:14:32,033 THERE WERE LOTS OF TEARS AND HUGS. 519 00:14:32,033 --> 00:14:33,165 HUGS. >> A LA FAMIGLIA. 520 00:14:33,165 --> 00:14:34,693 >> A LA FAMIGLIA. >> THE VATICAN’S ORPHAN PROGRAM 521 00:14:34,693 --> 00:14:37,660 >> THE VATICAN’S ORPHAN PROGRAM ENDED IN THE 1970s, BUT THE 522 00:14:37,660 --> 00:14:38,792 ENDED IN THE 1970s, BUT THE FALLOUT CONTINUES, RIPPLING 523 00:14:38,792 --> 00:14:39,264 FALLOUT CONTINUES, RIPPLING ACROSS GENERATIONS. 524 00:14:39,264 --> 00:14:40,165 ACROSS GENERATIONS. MARY RELOTTO TOLD US SHE NEVER 525 00:14:40,165 --> 00:14:42,198 MARY RELOTTO TOLD US SHE NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN SENT TO 526 00:14:42,198 --> 00:14:42,462 SHOULD HAVE BEEN SENT TO AMERICA. 527 00:14:42,462 --> 00:14:43,693 AMERICA. >> I THINK THE CHURCH CONVINCED 528 00:14:43,693 --> 00:14:45,660 >> I THINK THE CHURCH CONVINCED HER THAT IT WAS THE BEST THING 529 00:14:45,660 --> 00:14:45,957 HER THAT IT WAS THE BEST THING FOR HER. 530 00:14:45,957 --> 00:14:48,132 FOR HER. AND SO INSTEAD OF HELPING HER, 531 00:14:48,132 --> 00:14:50,462 AND SO INSTEAD OF HELPING HER, IT WAS BETTER FOR THEM TO MAKE 532 00:14:50,462 --> 00:14:50,924 IT WAS BETTER FOR THEM TO MAKE MONEY SELLING BABIES. 533 00:14:50,924 --> 00:14:52,891 MONEY SELLING BABIES. THAT’S ALL I CAN THINK OF, YOU 534 00:14:52,891 --> 00:14:53,099 THAT’S ALL I CAN THINK OF, YOU KNOW? 535 00:14:53,099 --> 00:14:55,726 KNOW? SO AM I ANGRY AT THE CHURCH? 536 00:14:55,726 --> 00:14:56,264 SO AM I ANGRY AT THE CHURCH? HELL YEAH, I AM. 537 00:14:56,264 --> 00:14:58,231 HELL YEAH, I AM. I WOULD HAVE A DIFFERENT LIFE 538 00:14:58,231 --> 00:14:58,429 I WOULD HAVE A DIFFERENT LIFE TOO. 539 00:14:58,429 --> 00:15:05,000 TOO. AND WHILE IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN 540 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,462 AND WHILE IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN DIFFICULT, I STILL WOULD HAVE 541 00:15:14,429 --> 00:15:14,561 DIFFICULT, I STILL WOULD HAVE SURVIVED SURVIVED 542 00:15:14,561 --> 00:15:17,033 >>> OKAY, NAME THAT COUNTRY. 543 00:15:17,033 --> 00:15:17,693 >>> OKAY, NAME THAT COUNTRY. IT’S PLANTED OPPOSITE EUROPE, 544 00:15:17,693 --> 00:15:19,495 IT’S PLANTED OPPOSITE EUROPE, SITTING PROUDLY ON THE OTHER 545 00:15:19,495 --> 00:15:20,924 SITTING PROUDLY ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE NORTH SEA. 546 00:15:20,924 --> 00:15:23,363 SIDE OF THE NORTH SEA. IT’S A MONARCHY THAT FEATURES 547 00:15:23,363 --> 00:15:25,561 IT’S A MONARCHY THAT FEATURES ITS OWN CURRENCY, POSTAGE 548 00:15:25,561 --> 00:15:26,231 ITS OWN CURRENCY, POSTAGE STAMPS, CONSTITUTION, NATIONAL 549 00:15:26,231 --> 00:15:28,198 STAMPS, CONSTITUTION, NATIONAL ANTHEM, LOVE OF TEA, AND A PAIR 550 00:15:28,198 --> 00:15:30,231 ANTHEM, LOVE OF TEA, AND A PAIR OF HANDSOME PRINCES, BORN TWO 551 00:15:30,231 --> 00:15:31,462 OF HANDSOME PRINCES, BORN TWO YEARS APART. 552 00:15:31,462 --> 00:15:32,000 YEARS APART. WE SPEAK OF SEALAND. 553 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,099 WE SPEAK OF SEALAND. A CRUMB OF REAL ESTATE OFF THE 554 00:15:34,099 --> 00:15:37,462 A CRUMB OF REAL ESTATE OFF THE ENGLISH COAST THAT DECLARED ITS 555 00:15:37,462 --> 00:15:38,759 ENGLISH COAST THAT DECLARED ITS INDEPENDENCE IN 1967, SEALAND 556 00:15:38,759 --> 00:15:40,099 INDEPENDENCE IN 1967, SEALAND HAS A FULL-TIME POPULATION OF 557 00:15:40,099 --> 00:15:40,297 HAS A FULL-TIME POPULATION OF ONE. 558 00:15:40,297 --> 00:15:44,000 ONE. IT HAS A LAND MASS THE SIZE OF 559 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,297 IT HAS A LAND MASS THE SIZE OF ROUGHLY TWO TENNIS COURTS. 560 00:15:45,297 --> 00:15:47,825 ROUGHLY TWO TENNIS COURTS. ITS LEADING EXPORT MIGHT BE THE 561 00:15:47,825 --> 00:15:53,000 ITS LEADING EXPORT MIGHT BE THE NATIONAL MYTHOLOGY, A HISTORY 562 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,264 NATIONAL MYTHOLOGY, A HISTORY OF PIRACY, COUPS, COUNTERCOUPS, 563 00:15:55,264 --> 00:15:56,132 OF PIRACY, COUPS, COUNTERCOUPS, ROGUES, AND OFFSHORE INTERNET 564 00:15:56,132 --> 00:15:56,396 ROGUES, AND OFFSHORE INTERNET SCHEMES. 565 00:15:56,396 --> 00:15:59,726 SCHEMES. IT MAY MAKE TINY LICHTENSTEIN 566 00:15:59,726 --> 00:16:01,429 IT MAY MAKE TINY LICHTENSTEIN LOOK LIKE CHINA IN COMPARISON. 567 00:16:01,429 --> 00:16:03,594 LOOK LIKE CHINA IN COMPARISON. JOIN US AS WE COMPILE SOME 568 00:16:03,594 --> 00:16:07,066 JOIN US AS WE COMPILE SOME NOTES FROM A TRULY SMALL 569 00:16:07,066 --> 00:16:07,297 NOTES FROM A TRULY SMALL ISLAND. 570 00:16:07,297 --> 00:16:09,033 ISLAND. >> WE COULD SAY SEALAND, BY THE 571 00:16:09,033 --> 00:16:09,726 >> WE COULD SAY SEALAND, BY THE WAY, OVER THERE. 572 00:16:09,726 --> 00:16:10,429 WAY, OVER THERE. DO YOU SEE THAT? 573 00:16:10,429 --> 00:16:11,825 DO YOU SEE THAT? >> YEAH, THERE SHE IS. 574 00:16:11,825 --> 00:16:15,033 >> YEAH, THERE SHE IS. >> YEAH, YEAH, ON THE STAR 575 00:16:15,033 --> 00:16:15,330 >> YEAH, YEAH, ON THE STAR BOARD BOW. 576 00:16:15,330 --> 00:16:17,330 BOARD BOW. >> BEHOLD, THE WORLD’S SMALLEST 577 00:16:17,330 --> 00:16:17,561 >> BEHOLD, THE WORLD’S SMALLEST STATE. 578 00:16:17,561 --> 00:16:20,792 STATE. IT’S A MICRONATION IN THE 579 00:16:20,792 --> 00:16:21,066 IT’S A MICRONATION IN THE EXTREME. 580 00:16:21,066 --> 00:16:22,099 EXTREME. A PRINCIPALITY WHICH SITS OR 581 00:16:22,099 --> 00:16:26,000 A PRINCIPALITY WHICH SITS OR STANDS ONLY SEVEN MILES OFF THE 582 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,726 STANDS ONLY SEVEN MILES OFF THE COAST OF ENGLAND. 583 00:16:27,726 --> 00:16:28,495 COAST OF ENGLAND. ITS SELF-DESCRIBED REIGNING 584 00:16:28,495 --> 00:16:30,627 ITS SELF-DESCRIBED REIGNING MONARCH IS THIS GUY, PRINCE 585 00:16:30,627 --> 00:16:31,099 MONARCH IS THIS GUY, PRINCE MICHAEL BATES. 586 00:16:31,099 --> 00:16:32,330 MICHAEL BATES. >> HERE WE ARE. 587 00:16:32,330 --> 00:16:32,594 >> HERE WE ARE. >> YEP. 588 00:16:32,594 --> 00:16:35,858 >> YEP. >> A PLATFORM AND A COUPLE OF 589 00:16:35,858 --> 00:16:36,891 >> A PLATFORM AND A COUPLE OF CONCRETE HUSKS, AND -- 590 00:16:36,891 --> 00:16:37,066 CONCRETE HUSKS, AND -- >> 591 00:16:37,066 --> 00:16:37,264 >> YEAH. 592 00:16:37,264 --> 00:16:40,033 YEAH. >> THIS IS A STATE. 593 00:16:40,033 --> 00:16:40,726 >> THIS IS A STATE. >> YEP. 594 00:16:40,726 --> 00:16:42,528 >> YEP. >> ENTER SOME COUNTRIES, YOU 595 00:16:42,528 --> 00:16:43,198 >> ENTER SOME COUNTRIES, YOU ARRIVE IN STYLE. 596 00:16:43,198 --> 00:16:44,726 ARRIVE IN STYLE. HERE, YOU ARRIVE IN WHAT’S 597 00:16:44,726 --> 00:16:45,726 HERE, YOU ARRIVE IN WHAT’S BASICALLY A BACKYARD SWING 598 00:16:45,726 --> 00:16:48,462 BASICALLY A BACKYARD SWING HOISTED BY A CRANK 60 FEET 599 00:16:48,462 --> 00:16:49,264 HOISTED BY A CRANK 60 FEET ABOVE THE NORTH SEA. 600 00:16:49,264 --> 00:16:53,132 ABOVE THE NORTH SEA. AND IF YOU’RE WONDERING ABOUT 601 00:16:53,132 --> 00:16:54,693 AND IF YOU’RE WONDERING ABOUT THE SAFETY REGULATIONS, YEAH, 602 00:16:54,693 --> 00:16:54,924 THE SAFETY REGULATIONS, YEAH, US TOO. 603 00:16:54,924 --> 00:16:58,363 US TOO. THEN AGAIN, WHEN YOU ARE A 604 00:16:58,363 --> 00:16:58,924 THEN AGAIN, WHEN YOU ARE A SOVEREIGN NATION, YOU, BY 605 00:16:58,924 --> 00:17:00,495 SOVEREIGN NATION, YOU, BY DEFINITION, SET YOUR OWN RULES. 606 00:17:00,495 --> 00:17:02,198 DEFINITION, SET YOUR OWN RULES. >> THAT’S A HELL OF A WAY TO 607 00:17:02,198 --> 00:17:02,660 >> THAT’S A HELL OF A WAY TO GET INTO A COUNTRY. 608 00:17:02,660 --> 00:17:03,858 GET INTO A COUNTRY. >> THE ONLY WAY TO TRAVEL. 609 00:17:03,858 --> 00:17:05,264 >> THE ONLY WAY TO TRAVEL. >> ON THE PLUS SIDE, THERE’S NO 610 00:17:05,264 --> 00:17:08,924 >> ON THE PLUS SIDE, THERE’S NO LONG LINE AT THE ARRIVAL’S 611 00:17:08,924 --> 00:17:09,132 LONG LINE AT THE ARRIVAL’S HALL. 612 00:17:09,132 --> 00:17:12,000 HALL. >> I’M FOLLOWING YOU TO 613 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:12,396 >> I’M FOLLOWING YOU TO PASSPORT CONTROL. 614 00:17:12,396 --> 00:17:13,330 PASSPORT CONTROL. >> MIKE BARRINGTON FILLS 615 00:17:13,330 --> 00:17:14,858 >> MIKE BARRINGTON FILLS VARIOUS ROLES AND POSITIONS ON 616 00:17:14,858 --> 00:17:15,132 VARIOUS ROLES AND POSITIONS ON SEALAND. 617 00:17:15,132 --> 00:17:16,495 SEALAND. RIGHT NOW IT’S IMMIGRATIONS AND 618 00:17:16,495 --> 00:17:16,759 RIGHT NOW IT’S IMMIGRATIONS AND CUSTOMS. 619 00:17:16,759 --> 00:17:20,957 CUSTOMS. HE ALSO HAPPENS TO BE THE ONLY 620 00:17:20,957 --> 00:17:21,462 HE ALSO HAPPENS TO BE THE ONLY PERMANENT RESIDENT. 621 00:17:21,462 --> 00:17:22,495 PERMANENT RESIDENT. >> THERE YOU ARE, SIR. 622 00:17:22,495 --> 00:17:24,033 >> THERE YOU ARE, SIR. >> SO NOW I’M OFFICIAL? 623 00:17:24,033 --> 00:17:29,033 >> SO NOW I’M OFFICIAL? >> YOU ARE. 624 00:17:29,033 --> 00:17:30,759 >> YOU ARE. WELCOME TO SEALAND. 625 00:17:30,759 --> 00:17:32,198 WELCOME TO SEALAND. >> IT WASN’T ALWAYS NAMED 626 00:17:32,198 --> 00:17:33,099 >> IT WASN’T ALWAYS NAMED SEALAND, AND IT WAS NEVER 627 00:17:33,099 --> 00:17:36,165 SEALAND, AND IT WAS NEVER INTENDED TO BE A COUNTRY. 628 00:17:36,165 --> 00:17:37,726 INTENDED TO BE A COUNTRY. ORIGINALLY CALLED HIS MAJESTY’S 629 00:17:37,726 --> 00:17:40,660 ORIGINALLY CALLED HIS MAJESTY’S ROUGHS TOWER, IT WAS A 630 00:17:40,660 --> 00:17:41,264 ROUGHS TOWER, IT WAS A HASTILY-CONSTRUCTED NAUTICAL 631 00:17:41,264 --> 00:17:41,462 HASTILY-CONSTRUCTED NAUTICAL FORT. 632 00:17:41,462 --> 00:17:43,132 FORT. ONE OF SEVERAL THE BRITISH SET 633 00:17:43,132 --> 00:17:47,495 ONE OF SEVERAL THE BRITISH SET UP IN THE NORTH SEA DURING 634 00:17:47,495 --> 00:17:47,825 UP IN THE NORTH SEA DURING WORLD WAR II. 635 00:17:47,825 --> 00:17:49,066 WORLD WAR II. EQUIPPED WITH ANTI-AIRCRAFT 636 00:17:49,066 --> 00:17:49,924 EQUIPPED WITH ANTI-AIRCRAFT ARTILLERY, THESE FORTS WERE 637 00:17:49,924 --> 00:17:53,528 ARTILLERY, THESE FORTS WERE DESIGNED TO PREVENT GERMAN 638 00:17:53,528 --> 00:17:55,066 DESIGNED TO PREVENT GERMAN BOMBING RAIDS ON LONDON. 639 00:17:55,066 --> 00:17:56,957 BOMBING RAIDS ON LONDON. DURING THE WAR, MORE THAN 100 640 00:17:56,957 --> 00:17:58,429 DURING THE WAR, MORE THAN 100 ROYAL MARINES WERE CRAMMED INTO 641 00:17:58,429 --> 00:18:04,594 ROYAL MARINES WERE CRAMMED INTO THESE TOWERS FOR MONTHS ON END. 642 00:18:04,594 --> 00:18:05,429 THESE TOWERS FOR MONTHS ON END. DESCENDING THE SEVEN-STORY 643 00:18:05,429 --> 00:18:06,396 DESCENDING THE SEVEN-STORY TOWERS, IT FEELS AND SMELLS 644 00:18:06,396 --> 00:18:09,957 TOWERS, IT FEELS AND SMELLS LIKE A CROSS BETWEEN A TREE 645 00:18:09,957 --> 00:18:11,693 LIKE A CROSS BETWEEN A TREE HOUSE AND A DIESEL-SOAKED 646 00:18:11,693 --> 00:18:12,000 HOUSE AND A DIESEL-SOAKED SUBMARINE. 647 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:12,693 SUBMARINE. FIRST UP, THE FIRST-CLASS 648 00:18:12,693 --> 00:18:13,066 FIRST UP, THE FIRST-CLASS BEDROOM SUITE. 649 00:18:13,066 --> 00:18:14,297 BEDROOM SUITE. >> IT’S A NICE ONE. 650 00:18:14,297 --> 00:18:16,825 >> IT’S A NICE ONE. >> YEAH, NICE TV. 651 00:18:16,825 --> 00:18:18,264 >> YEAH, NICE TV. >> OUR CLAUSTROPHOBIC TOUR 652 00:18:18,264 --> 00:18:18,693 >> OUR CLAUSTROPHOBIC TOUR CONTINUED DOWNWARD. 653 00:18:18,693 --> 00:18:20,066 CONTINUED DOWNWARD. >> WE’RE UNDER WATER AT THIS 654 00:18:20,066 --> 00:18:20,297 >> WE’RE UNDER WATER AT THIS POINT. 655 00:18:20,297 --> 00:18:22,066 POINT. SO WE STILL GOT A COUPLE FLOORS 656 00:18:22,066 --> 00:18:22,297 SO WE STILL GOT A COUPLE FLOORS TO GO? 657 00:18:22,297 --> 00:18:24,858 TO GO? >> YEAH, YOU HEAR SHIPS GOING 658 00:18:24,858 --> 00:18:25,066 >> YEAH, YOU HEAR SHIPS GOING PAST. 659 00:18:25,066 --> 00:18:27,825 PAST. YOU HEAR THE PROPELLERS GOING 660 00:18:27,825 --> 00:18:28,495 YOU HEAR THE PROPELLERS GOING DING, DING, DING. 661 00:18:28,495 --> 00:18:30,495 DING, DING, DING. >> LIKE MANY COUNTRIES, THERE’S 662 00:18:30,495 --> 00:18:31,396 >> LIKE MANY COUNTRIES, THERE’S A NATIONAL CATHEDRAL. 663 00:18:31,396 --> 00:18:33,957 A NATIONAL CATHEDRAL. >> YOU HAVE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP 664 00:18:33,957 --> 00:18:35,231 >> YOU HAVE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP ON SEALAND. 665 00:18:35,231 --> 00:18:39,330 ON SEALAND. I THINK THERE’S EVEN THE QURAN 666 00:18:39,330 --> 00:18:39,825 I THINK THERE’S EVEN THE QURAN HERE SOMEWHERE. 667 00:18:39,825 --> 00:18:41,627 HERE SOMEWHERE. ON THE BOTTOM FLOOR, THE JAIL. 668 00:18:41,627 --> 00:18:43,132 ON THE BOTTOM FLOOR, THE JAIL. >> TWO DAYS IN THE BRIG. 669 00:18:43,132 --> 00:18:43,396 >> TWO DAYS IN THE BRIG. >> WOW. 670 00:18:43,396 --> 00:18:43,957 >> WOW. >> BREAD AND WATER. 671 00:18:43,957 --> 00:18:46,000 >> BREAD AND WATER. >> I HAVE TO LOOK AT THE 672 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,099 >> I HAVE TO LOOK AT THE SEALAND CONSTITUTION AND SEE 673 00:18:47,099 --> 00:18:47,924 SEALAND CONSTITUTION AND SEE WHAT MY RIGHTS ARE. 674 00:18:47,924 --> 00:18:48,792 WHAT MY RIGHTS ARE. >> VERY LIMITED. 675 00:18:48,792 --> 00:18:49,495 >> VERY LIMITED. [ LAUGHTER ] 676 00:18:49,495 --> 00:18:52,066 [ LAUGHTER ] >> IF YOU’RE WONDERING BY NOW 677 00:18:52,066 --> 00:18:52,957 >> IF YOU’RE WONDERING BY NOW HOW THIS CONCRETE ISLAND 678 00:18:52,957 --> 00:18:55,825 HOW THIS CONCRETE ISLAND CONSTITUTES AS A COUNTRY, STICK 679 00:18:55,825 --> 00:18:56,693 CONSTITUTES AS A COUNTRY, STICK WITH US HERE. 680 00:18:56,693 --> 00:18:59,495 WITH US HERE. BACK IN THE 1960s, THE SAME 681 00:18:59,495 --> 00:19:01,231 BACK IN THE 1960s, THE SAME WATERS PLAYED HOST TO THE 682 00:19:01,231 --> 00:19:01,825 WATERS PLAYED HOST TO THE UNLICENSED COMMERCIAL RADIO 683 00:19:01,825 --> 00:19:03,594 UNLICENSED COMMERCIAL RADIO BUSINESS THAT OPERATED ON SHIPS 684 00:19:03,594 --> 00:19:04,429 BUSINESS THAT OPERATED ON SHIPS AND OLD FORTS. 685 00:19:04,429 --> 00:19:07,561 AND OLD FORTS. WITH THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT 686 00:19:07,561 --> 00:19:08,132 WITH THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT CALLED PIRATE RADIO. 687 00:19:08,132 --> 00:19:10,693 CALLED PIRATE RADIO. IT WAS A TIME OF THE BEATLES, 688 00:19:10,693 --> 00:19:15,066 IT WAS A TIME OF THE BEATLES, THE ROLLING STONES, THE KINKS, 689 00:19:15,066 --> 00:19:17,396 THE ROLLING STONES, THE KINKS, BUT THE STODGY BBC, WHICH A 690 00:19:17,396 --> 00:19:18,165 BUT THE STODGY BBC, WHICH A MONOPOLY ON BROADCASTING IN 691 00:19:18,165 --> 00:19:19,198 MONOPOLY ON BROADCASTING IN BRITAIN, GAVE THE ROCK BANDS 692 00:19:19,198 --> 00:19:22,924 BRITAIN, GAVE THE ROCK BANDS JUST AN HOUR OF AIR TIME A 693 00:19:22,924 --> 00:19:23,132 JUST AN HOUR OF AIR TIME A WEEK. 694 00:19:23,132 --> 00:19:23,528 WEEK. ♪ [ MUSIC ] ♪ 695 00:19:23,528 --> 00:19:27,561 ♪ [ MUSIC ] ♪ THE YOUNGER SET IN BRITAIN, 696 00:19:27,561 --> 00:19:28,858 THE YOUNGER SET IN BRITAIN, MILLIONS OF THEM TUNED THEIR 697 00:19:28,858 --> 00:19:31,957 MILLIONS OF THEM TUNED THEIR RADIO KNOBS TO THE PIRATE 698 00:19:31,957 --> 00:19:32,231 RADIO KNOBS TO THE PIRATE STATIONS. 699 00:19:32,231 --> 00:19:33,924 STATIONS. IN 1965, PRINCE MICHAEL’S 700 00:19:33,924 --> 00:19:36,000 IN 1965, PRINCE MICHAEL’S FATHER, ROY BATES, AN 701 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,660 FATHER, ROY BATES, AN ENTERPRISING SWASHBUCKLING 702 00:19:38,660 --> 00:19:39,693 ENTERPRISING SWASHBUCKLING WORLD WAR II VETERAN, 703 00:19:39,693 --> 00:19:41,033 WORLD WAR II VETERAN, COMMODORED A FORT WHERE ANOTHER 704 00:19:41,033 --> 00:19:41,561 COMMODORED A FORT WHERE ANOTHER PIRATE STATION OPERATED. 705 00:19:41,561 --> 00:19:44,858 PIRATE STATION OPERATED. IT WAS THE WILD WEST ON THE 706 00:19:44,858 --> 00:19:45,165 IT WAS THE WILD WEST ON THE NORTH SEA. 707 00:19:45,165 --> 00:19:47,462 NORTH SEA. >> THE DJ’S MAY NOT BE HIGHLY 708 00:19:47,462 --> 00:19:49,033 >> THE DJ’S MAY NOT BE HIGHLY EXPERIENCED, BUT THEY CERTAINLY 709 00:19:49,033 --> 00:19:49,462 EXPERIENCED, BUT THEY CERTAINLY PULL THEIR WEIGHT. 710 00:19:49,462 --> 00:19:52,132 PULL THEIR WEIGHT. >> BATES SET UP BRITAIN’S FIRST 711 00:19:52,132 --> 00:19:52,858 >> BATES SET UP BRITAIN’S FIRST 24-HOUR OUTFIT. 712 00:19:52,858 --> 00:19:53,858 24-HOUR OUTFIT. HE CALLED IT RADIOEST SEX. 713 00:19:53,858 --> 00:19:56,066 HE CALLED IT RADIOEST SEX. >> YOU’RE IN TUNE WITH RADIOEST 714 00:19:56,066 --> 00:19:59,891 >> YOU’RE IN TUNE WITH RADIOEST SEX BROADCASTING ON 2-22 715 00:19:59,891 --> 00:20:00,066 SEX BROADCASTING ON 2-22 METERS. 716 00:20:00,066 --> 00:20:00,198 METERS. > 717 00:20:00,198 --> 00:20:01,528 > >> WE’RE DOING A JOB THAT’S 718 00:20:01,528 --> 00:20:04,033 >> WE’RE DOING A JOB THAT’S NEEDED, THE PUBLIC WANTS US TO 719 00:20:04,033 --> 00:20:05,132 NEEDED, THE PUBLIC WANTS US TO DO THE JOB. 720 00:20:05,132 --> 00:20:05,594 DO THE JOB. SO DO BUSINESSES. 721 00:20:05,594 --> 00:20:07,330 SO DO BUSINESSES. >> BUT NOT FORKING LONG. 722 00:20:07,330 --> 00:20:08,891 >> BUT NOT FORKING LONG. THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT ENACTED 723 00:20:08,891 --> 00:20:12,495 THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT ENACTED A NEW LAW RENDERING ALL PIRATE 724 00:20:12,495 --> 00:20:13,429 A NEW LAW RENDERING ALL PIRATE RADIO STATIONS ILLEGAL. 725 00:20:13,429 --> 00:20:14,693 RADIO STATIONS ILLEGAL. BATES WAS FORCED TO SHUT DOWN. 726 00:20:14,693 --> 00:20:16,297 BATES WAS FORCED TO SHUT DOWN. BUT TRUE TO HIS NATURE, HE WAS 727 00:20:16,297 --> 00:20:17,891 BUT TRUE TO HIS NATURE, HE WAS SOMETHING OTHER THAN SCARED 728 00:20:17,891 --> 00:20:18,099 SOMETHING OTHER THAN SCARED OFF. 729 00:20:18,099 --> 00:20:21,429 OFF. >> HE JUST WOULD NOT BACK DOWN. 730 00:20:21,429 --> 00:20:23,528 >> HE JUST WOULD NOT BACK DOWN. >> FORM OF SURRENDER IF HE HAD 731 00:20:23,528 --> 00:20:25,000 >> FORM OF SURRENDER IF HE HAD SAID, YOU KNOW, I’M OUT? 732 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,660 SAID, YOU KNOW, I’M OUT? >> HE WOULDN’T KNOW THAT WORD, 733 00:20:27,660 --> 00:20:27,957 >> HE WOULDN’T KNOW THAT WORD, SURRENDER. 734 00:20:27,957 --> 00:20:28,561 SURRENDER. I MEAN, NO. 735 00:20:28,561 --> 00:20:30,528 I MEAN, NO. >> FAR FROM SURRENDERING, BATES 736 00:20:30,528 --> 00:20:31,693 >> FAR FROM SURRENDERING, BATES SEIZED ANOTHER FORT, ROUGHS 737 00:20:31,693 --> 00:20:34,660 SEIZED ANOTHER FORT, ROUGHS TOWER, WHICH WAS OUTSIDE UK 738 00:20:34,660 --> 00:20:35,858 TOWER, WHICH WAS OUTSIDE UK TERRITORIAL WATERS. 739 00:20:35,858 --> 00:20:36,627 TERRITORIAL WATERS. INSTEAD OF RESTARTING RADIOEST 740 00:20:36,627 --> 00:20:40,165 INSTEAD OF RESTARTING RADIOEST SEX, HE DID SOMETHING BOLDER 741 00:20:40,165 --> 00:20:40,396 SEX, HE DID SOMETHING BOLDER STILL. 742 00:20:40,396 --> 00:20:43,198 STILL. ON SEPTEMBER 2, 1967, HE 743 00:20:43,198 --> 00:20:48,033 ON SEPTEMBER 2, 1967, HE DECLARED IT AN INDEPENDENT 744 00:20:48,033 --> 00:20:48,264 DECLARED IT AN INDEPENDENT STATE. 745 00:20:48,264 --> 00:20:48,528 STATE. SEALAND. 746 00:20:48,528 --> 00:20:49,429 SEALAND. AND DECLARED HIMSELF ITS 747 00:20:49,429 --> 00:20:49,660 AND DECLARED HIMSELF ITS PRINCE. 748 00:20:49,660 --> 00:20:53,297 PRINCE. IT WAS HIS WIFE, JOAN’S 749 00:20:53,297 --> 00:20:53,561 IT WAS HIS WIFE, JOAN’S BIRTHDAY. 750 00:20:53,561 --> 00:20:55,924 BIRTHDAY. >> AND IT WAS, OF COURSE, A 751 00:20:55,924 --> 00:20:57,429 >> AND IT WAS, OF COURSE, A HUGELY ROMANTIC GESTURE TO MAKE 752 00:20:57,429 --> 00:20:57,924 HUGELY ROMANTIC GESTURE TO MAKE MY MOTHER A PRINCESS. 753 00:20:57,924 --> 00:20:59,264 MY MOTHER A PRINCESS. >> IN ADDITION TO TAKING YOU 754 00:20:59,264 --> 00:21:01,495 >> IN ADDITION TO TAKING YOU OUT TO DINNER, I’M GOING TO 755 00:21:01,495 --> 00:21:02,099 OUT TO DINNER, I’M GOING TO MAKE YOU A PRINCESS? 756 00:21:02,099 --> 00:21:03,693 MAKE YOU A PRINCESS? >> WELL, HE DIDN’T TAKE HER OUT 757 00:21:03,693 --> 00:21:06,000 >> WELL, HE DIDN’T TAKE HER OUT TO DINNER, BUT HE DID, HE MADE 758 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:06,891 TO DINNER, BUT HE DID, HE MADE HER A PRINCESS. 759 00:21:06,891 --> 00:21:08,759 HER A PRINCESS. >> PRINCE ROY AND PRINCESS 760 00:21:08,759 --> 00:21:10,297 >> PRINCE ROY AND PRINCESS JOAN, ALONG WITH THEIR TWO 761 00:21:10,297 --> 00:21:11,528 JOAN, ALONG WITH THEIR TWO CHILDREN, MICHAEL AND PENNY, 762 00:21:11,528 --> 00:21:12,396 CHILDREN, MICHAEL AND PENNY, SET UP HOME ON SEALAND. 763 00:21:12,396 --> 00:21:13,561 SET UP HOME ON SEALAND. A SHEER NOVELTY OF THEIR 764 00:21:13,561 --> 00:21:15,627 A SHEER NOVELTY OF THEIR LIFESTYLE WAS A CONSTANT SOURCE 765 00:21:15,627 --> 00:21:16,660 LIFESTYLE WAS A CONSTANT SOURCE OF AMUSEMENT ON THE MAINLAND. 766 00:21:16,660 --> 00:21:19,462 OF AMUSEMENT ON THE MAINLAND. THIS NEWSREEL IS FROM 1969. 767 00:21:19,462 --> 00:21:21,693 THIS NEWSREEL IS FROM 1969. >> THE START OF ANOTHER DAY 768 00:21:21,693 --> 00:21:23,099 >> THE START OF ANOTHER DAY EVEN FOR THE NEW ROYALS, IS NO 769 00:21:23,099 --> 00:21:24,429 EVEN FOR THE NEW ROYALS, IS NO DIFFERENCE THAN FOR MILLIONS OF 770 00:21:24,429 --> 00:21:27,033 DIFFERENCE THAN FOR MILLIONS OF OTHERS, THE REQUEST FOR A 771 00:21:27,033 --> 00:21:27,363 OTHERS, THE REQUEST FOR A COMMON CUPPA. 772 00:21:27,363 --> 00:21:27,627 COMMON CUPPA. >> MRS. 773 00:21:27,627 --> 00:21:29,363 >> MRS. BATES, HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO 774 00:21:29,363 --> 00:21:30,858 BATES, HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO KEEP LOOKING GLAMOROUS IN 775 00:21:30,858 --> 00:21:31,462 KEEP LOOKING GLAMOROUS IN CONDITIONS LIKE THESE? 776 00:21:31,462 --> 00:21:32,792 CONDITIONS LIKE THESE? >> IT IS NO MORE DIFFICULT THAN 777 00:21:32,792 --> 00:21:34,297 >> IT IS NO MORE DIFFICULT THAN ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD. 778 00:21:34,297 --> 00:21:34,891 ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD. WE’RE QUITE COMFORTABLE HERE. 779 00:21:34,891 --> 00:21:37,429 WE’RE QUITE COMFORTABLE HERE. I’VE GOT ALL THE THINGS THAT I 780 00:21:37,429 --> 00:21:37,627 I’VE GOT ALL THE THINGS THAT I WANT. 781 00:21:37,627 --> 00:21:38,495 WANT. MAKEUP, BRUSHES, AND THINGS. 782 00:21:38,495 --> 00:21:40,627 MAKEUP, BRUSHES, AND THINGS. >> AT AGE 16, PENNY WAS LESS 783 00:21:40,627 --> 00:21:40,924 >> AT AGE 16, PENNY WAS LESS CONVINCED. 784 00:21:40,924 --> 00:21:43,957 CONVINCED. >> IT WAS FREEZING COLD, AND IT 785 00:21:43,957 --> 00:21:44,825 >> IT WAS FREEZING COLD, AND IT HAD NO ELECTRICITY. 786 00:21:44,825 --> 00:21:45,924 HAD NO ELECTRICITY. TO FLUSH A TOILET, YOU’D HAVE 787 00:21:45,924 --> 00:21:47,627 TO FLUSH A TOILET, YOU’D HAVE TO CHUCK A BUCKET OVER THE 788 00:21:47,627 --> 00:21:49,099 TO CHUCK A BUCKET OVER THE SIDE, DROP IT DOWN ABOUT 80 789 00:21:49,099 --> 00:21:50,429 SIDE, DROP IT DOWN ABOUT 80 FEET, PULL IT UP, AND FLUSH THE 790 00:21:50,429 --> 00:21:50,660 FEET, PULL IT UP, AND FLUSH THE TOILET. 791 00:21:50,660 --> 00:21:52,363 TOILET. >> THAT WAS YOUR TOILET? 792 00:21:52,363 --> 00:21:53,363 >> THAT WAS YOUR TOILET? >> YES. 793 00:21:53,363 --> 00:21:54,858 >> YES. >> THE BATES FAMILY HAD BIG 794 00:21:54,858 --> 00:21:57,759 >> THE BATES FAMILY HAD BIG AMBITIONS TO TURN SEALAND INTO 795 00:21:57,759 --> 00:22:00,198 AMBITIONS TO TURN SEALAND INTO A TAX HAVEN, A LUXURY ISLAND 796 00:22:00,198 --> 00:22:00,495 A TAX HAVEN, A LUXURY ISLAND AND CASINO. 797 00:22:00,495 --> 00:22:02,726 AND CASINO. AND THEY WENT ALL IN ON 798 00:22:02,726 --> 00:22:04,660 AND THEY WENT ALL IN ON TRAPPINGS OF STATE HOOD, 799 00:22:04,660 --> 00:22:05,693 TRAPPINGS OF STATE HOOD, FASHIONING A FLAG, STAMPS, 800 00:22:05,693 --> 00:22:13,132 FASHIONING A FLAG, STAMPS, CURRENCY, AN ANTHEM, EVEN A 801 00:22:13,132 --> 00:22:13,528 CURRENCY, AN ANTHEM, EVEN A NATIONAL MOTTO. 802 00:22:13,528 --> 00:22:14,726 NATIONAL MOTTO. E MARE LIBERTAS. 803 00:22:14,726 --> 00:22:15,726 E MARE LIBERTAS. FROM THE SEA, FREEDOM. 804 00:22:15,726 --> 00:22:17,132 FROM THE SEA, FREEDOM. AS TEENS, MICHAEL AND PENNY 805 00:22:17,132 --> 00:22:19,000 AS TEENS, MICHAEL AND PENNY WOULD SPEND MONTHS ON SEALAND, 806 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:20,528 WOULD SPEND MONTHS ON SEALAND, HOLDING DOWN THE FORT, AS IT 807 00:22:20,528 --> 00:22:20,726 HOLDING DOWN THE FORT, AS IT WERE. 808 00:22:20,726 --> 00:22:23,198 WERE. FIRING OFF WARNING SHOTS AND 809 00:22:23,198 --> 00:22:23,726 FIRING OFF WARNING SHOTS AND TOSSING MOLOTOV COCKTAILS 810 00:22:23,726 --> 00:22:25,231 TOSSING MOLOTOV COCKTAILS OVERBOARD TO FEND OFF PERIODIC 811 00:22:25,231 --> 00:22:29,165 OVERBOARD TO FEND OFF PERIODIC ATTEMPTS OF INVASION FROM 812 00:22:29,165 --> 00:22:29,660 ATTEMPTS OF INVASION FROM RIVALS AND BUCCANEERS. 813 00:22:29,660 --> 00:22:31,396 RIVALS AND BUCCANEERS. >> WHEN THE PRESS EVENTUALLY 814 00:22:31,396 --> 00:22:33,066 >> WHEN THE PRESS EVENTUALLY CAME OUT AND TOOK PHOTOGRAPHS, 815 00:22:33,066 --> 00:22:34,759 CAME OUT AND TOOK PHOTOGRAPHS, MY FATHER CALLED ME DOWN, AND 816 00:22:34,759 --> 00:22:36,297 MY FATHER CALLED ME DOWN, AND HE SAID, NOW LOOK, HE SAID HOW 817 00:22:36,297 --> 00:22:38,957 HE SAID, NOW LOOK, HE SAID HOW MANY TIMES HAVE I TOLD YOU, YOU 818 00:22:38,957 --> 00:22:40,561 MANY TIMES HAVE I TOLD YOU, YOU DO NOT HOLD A GUN LIKE THAT? 819 00:22:40,561 --> 00:22:42,264 DO NOT HOLD A GUN LIKE THAT? >> YOU WERE HOLDING THE GUN THE 820 00:22:42,264 --> 00:22:42,561 >> YOU WERE HOLDING THE GUN THE RIGHT WAY? 821 00:22:42,561 --> 00:22:43,924 RIGHT WAY? >> AND ACTUALLY, IF YOU LOOK AT 822 00:22:43,924 --> 00:22:46,363 >> AND ACTUALLY, IF YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURE, THE WAY I’M 823 00:22:46,363 --> 00:22:47,330 THE PICTURE, THE WAY I’M HOLDING THE GUNS, IT’S 824 00:22:47,330 --> 00:22:47,594 HOLDING THE GUNS, IT’S DREADFUL. 825 00:22:47,594 --> 00:22:49,561 DREADFUL. >> FIRMLY SETTLED ON SEALAND, 826 00:22:49,561 --> 00:22:51,495 >> FIRMLY SETTLED ON SEALAND, THE BATES’ REMAINED A NUANCE TO 827 00:22:51,495 --> 00:22:52,165 THE BATES’ REMAINED A NUANCE TO THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT. 828 00:22:52,165 --> 00:22:53,528 THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT. SO MUCH SO, AS A WARNING TO THE 829 00:22:53,528 --> 00:22:55,396 SO MUCH SO, AS A WARNING TO THE FAMILY, A TEAM OF ROYAL 830 00:22:55,396 --> 00:23:02,825 FAMILY, A TEAM OF ROYAL ENGINEERS BLEW UP A SIMILAR 831 00:23:02,825 --> 00:23:04,033 ENGINEERS BLEW UP A SIMILAR NORTH SEA FORT. 832 00:23:04,033 --> 00:23:05,231 NORTH SEA FORT. AT SEALAND’S NATIONAL ARCHIVES, 833 00:23:05,231 --> 00:23:06,858 AT SEALAND’S NATIONAL ARCHIVES, WHICH DOUBLES AS PRINCE 834 00:23:06,858 --> 00:23:09,198 WHICH DOUBLES AS PRINCE MICHAEL’S DINING ROOM TABLE, WE 835 00:23:09,198 --> 00:23:09,858 MICHAEL’S DINING ROOM TABLE, WE WERE SHOWN DECLASSIFIED PLANS, 836 00:23:09,858 --> 00:23:12,495 WERE SHOWN DECLASSIFIED PLANS, DRAWN UP BY THE BRITISH 837 00:23:12,495 --> 00:23:15,231 DRAWN UP BY THE BRITISH MINISTRY OF DEFENSE TO TAKE 838 00:23:15,231 --> 00:23:15,792 MINISTRY OF DEFENSE TO TAKE SEALAND BY FORCE. 839 00:23:15,792 --> 00:23:17,462 SEALAND BY FORCE. >> THE FOLLOWING UNITS ARE TO 840 00:23:17,462 --> 00:23:20,726 >> THE FOLLOWING UNITS ARE TO BE AVAILABLE TO THE EXECUTION 841 00:23:20,726 --> 00:23:21,429 BE AVAILABLE TO THE EXECUTION OF THE OPERATION. 842 00:23:21,429 --> 00:23:24,231 OF THE OPERATION. ROYAL NAVY TWO WESSEX 5 843 00:23:24,231 --> 00:23:26,066 ROYAL NAVY TWO WESSEX 5 HELICOPTERS, CRAFTS FROM HM 844 00:23:26,066 --> 00:23:26,924 HELICOPTERS, CRAFTS FROM HM NAVAL BASE CHATHAM, PORTSMOUTH, 845 00:23:26,924 --> 00:23:29,198 NAVAL BASE CHATHAM, PORTSMOUTH, MIDWAY, AND A CLEARANCE DIVING 846 00:23:29,198 --> 00:23:29,396 MIDWAY, AND A CLEARANCE DIVING TEAM. 847 00:23:29,396 --> 00:23:30,594 TEAM. [ LAUGHTER ] IT’S CRAZY, ISN’T 848 00:23:30,594 --> 00:23:30,759 [ LAUGHTER ] IT’S CRAZY, ISN’T IT? 849 00:23:30,759 --> 00:23:33,033 IT? >> BUT IT WASN’T JUST THE 850 00:23:33,033 --> 00:23:35,099 >> BUT IT WASN’T JUST THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT THAT WANTED 851 00:23:35,099 --> 00:23:36,528 BRITISH GOVERNMENT THAT WANTED TO DISLODGE THE FAMILY. 852 00:23:36,528 --> 00:23:38,561 TO DISLODGE THE FAMILY. IN AUGUST 1978, A BAND OF ROGUE 853 00:23:38,561 --> 00:23:41,759 IN AUGUST 1978, A BAND OF ROGUE GERMAN AND DUTCH LAWYERS AND 854 00:23:41,759 --> 00:23:42,957 GERMAN AND DUTCH LAWYERS AND DIAMOND MERCHANTS LAUNCHED A 855 00:23:42,957 --> 00:23:45,132 DIAMOND MERCHANTS LAUNCHED A COUP D’ETAT WITH DESIGNS OF 856 00:23:45,132 --> 00:23:46,363 COUP D’ETAT WITH DESIGNS OF FOUNDING THEIR OWN OFFSHORE 857 00:23:46,363 --> 00:23:46,594 FOUNDING THEIR OWN OFFSHORE CASINO. 858 00:23:46,594 --> 00:23:47,726 CASINO. THEY ARRIVED BY HELICOPTER WITH 859 00:23:47,726 --> 00:23:50,660 THEY ARRIVED BY HELICOPTER WITH A FILM CREW IN TOW. 860 00:23:50,660 --> 00:23:51,660 A FILM CREW IN TOW. TAKING PRINCE MICHAEL BY 861 00:23:51,660 --> 00:23:53,660 TAKING PRINCE MICHAEL BY SURPRISE, AND THEN ROUGHING HIM 862 00:23:53,660 --> 00:23:53,825 SURPRISE, AND THEN ROUGHING HIM UP. 863 00:23:53,825 --> 00:23:55,363 UP. >> THEY TIED MY ELBOWS 864 00:23:55,363 --> 00:23:56,462 >> THEY TIED MY ELBOWS TOGETHER, MY KNEES TOGETHER, 865 00:23:56,462 --> 00:23:58,132 TOGETHER, MY KNEES TOGETHER, MY FEET TOGETHER, MY HANDS DOWN 866 00:23:58,132 --> 00:23:58,495 MY FEET TOGETHER, MY HANDS DOWN TO MY KNEES. 867 00:23:58,495 --> 00:24:00,000 TO MY KNEES. AND THEY PICKED ME UP, AND ONE 868 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,396 AND THEY PICKED ME UP, AND ONE SAID TO THE OTHER GERMAN, LET’S 869 00:24:03,396 --> 00:24:04,891 SAID TO THE OTHER GERMAN, LET’S CHUCK THIS PERSON OVER THE 870 00:24:04,891 --> 00:24:05,099 CHUCK THIS PERSON OVER THE SIDE. 871 00:24:05,099 --> 00:24:06,132 SIDE. HE’S TOO MUCH TROUBLE. 872 00:24:06,132 --> 00:24:08,033 HE’S TOO MUCH TROUBLE. >> YOU’RE A FULL-ON POLITICAL 873 00:24:08,033 --> 00:24:08,528 >> YOU’RE A FULL-ON POLITICAL PRISONER RIGHT NOW? 874 00:24:08,528 --> 00:24:09,132 PRISONER RIGHT NOW? >> YEAH. 875 00:24:09,132 --> 00:24:10,198 >> YEAH. >> SEALAND HAD FALLEN. 876 00:24:10,198 --> 00:24:13,396 >> SEALAND HAD FALLEN. AFTER THREE DAYS, MICHAEL WAS 877 00:24:13,396 --> 00:24:13,660 AFTER THREE DAYS, MICHAEL WAS RELEASED. 878 00:24:13,660 --> 00:24:15,462 RELEASED. DID MICHAEL AND HIS FATHER THEN 879 00:24:15,462 --> 00:24:16,297 DID MICHAEL AND HIS FATHER THEN RETURN VIA HELICOPTER, FULLY 880 00:24:16,297 --> 00:24:17,924 RETURN VIA HELICOPTER, FULLY ARMED AND FLANKED BY A GROUP OF 881 00:24:17,924 --> 00:24:23,000 ARMED AND FLANKED BY A GROUP OF BRUISERS TO STAGE A SUCCESSFUL 882 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:23,330 BRUISERS TO STAGE A SUCCESSFUL COUNTERCOUP? 883 00:24:23,330 --> 00:24:23,825 COUNTERCOUP? YES, YES, THEY DID. 884 00:24:23,825 --> 00:24:24,726 YES, YES, THEY DID. >> I JUMPED AND LANDED CRASH IN 885 00:24:24,726 --> 00:24:27,594 >> I JUMPED AND LANDED CRASH IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GERMANS, 886 00:24:27,594 --> 00:24:28,726 THE MIDDLE OF THE GERMANS, SAWED-OFF SHOTGUN HIT THE DECK, 887 00:24:28,726 --> 00:24:32,099 SAWED-OFF SHOTGUN HIT THE DECK, BOOM, AND ALL THE GERMANS WENT 888 00:24:32,099 --> 00:24:32,627 BOOM, AND ALL THE GERMANS WENT LIKE THAT. 889 00:24:32,627 --> 00:24:33,462 LIKE THAT. >> THEY SURRENDERED. 890 00:24:33,462 --> 00:24:34,594 >> THEY SURRENDERED. THAT’S IT? 891 00:24:34,594 --> 00:24:36,297 THAT’S IT? >> YOU’VE RECLAIMED YOUR 892 00:24:36,297 --> 00:24:36,627 >> YOU’VE RECLAIMED YOUR PRINCIPALITY? 893 00:24:36,627 --> 00:24:37,627 PRINCIPALITY? >> DISARMED, THE PLOTTERS WERE 894 00:24:37,627 --> 00:24:39,165 >> DISARMED, THE PLOTTERS WERE RELEASED, ALL EXCEPT FOR ONE. 895 00:24:39,165 --> 00:24:40,231 RELEASED, ALL EXCEPT FOR ONE. HIS NAME WAS PUTZ, AND HE WAS 896 00:24:40,231 --> 00:24:43,858 HIS NAME WAS PUTZ, AND HE WAS MADE TO CLEAN THE BATHROOM, 897 00:24:43,858 --> 00:24:49,462 MADE TO CLEAN THE BATHROOM, MAKE COFFEE, AND IMPOSED A FINE 898 00:24:49,462 --> 00:24:49,792 MAKE COFFEE, AND IMPOSED A FINE FOR TREASON. 899 00:24:49,792 --> 00:24:50,066 FOR TREASON. $37,000. 900 00:24:50,066 --> 00:24:51,924 $37,000. HIS IMPRISONMENT BROUGHT A 901 00:24:51,924 --> 00:24:52,891 HIS IMPRISONMENT BROUGHT A GERMAN DIPLOMAT TO SEALAND. 902 00:24:52,891 --> 00:24:58,330 GERMAN DIPLOMAT TO SEALAND. BUT IF YOU HAVE GERMAN 903 00:24:58,330 --> 00:24:59,825 BUT IF YOU HAVE GERMAN EMISSARIES, COMING HERE TO 904 00:24:59,825 --> 00:25:01,528 EMISSARIES, COMING HERE TO NEGOTIATE THE RELEASE OF THE 905 00:25:01,528 --> 00:25:03,099 NEGOTIATE THE RELEASE OF THE PRISONER, DOESN’T THAT IMPLY 906 00:25:03,099 --> 00:25:07,396 PRISONER, DOESN’T THAT IMPLY THE SEALAND IS A STATE THAT’S 907 00:25:07,396 --> 00:25:07,792 THE SEALAND IS A STATE THAT’S HAVING RELATIONS? 908 00:25:07,792 --> 00:25:08,165 HAVING RELATIONS? >> ABSOLUTELY. 909 00:25:08,165 --> 00:25:10,264 >> ABSOLUTELY. IT’S DE FACTO RECOGNITION, 910 00:25:10,264 --> 00:25:10,528 IT’S DE FACTO RECOGNITION, ISN’T IT? 911 00:25:10,528 --> 00:25:11,462 ISN’T IT? IT HAPPENED, YEAH. 912 00:25:11,462 --> 00:25:12,561 IT HAPPENED, YEAH. >> THIS DIPLOMATIC VISIT WAS 913 00:25:12,561 --> 00:25:14,759 >> THIS DIPLOMATIC VISIT WAS CRITICAL FOR THE BATES FAMILY. 914 00:25:14,759 --> 00:25:16,198 CRITICAL FOR THE BATES FAMILY. AN INTERNATIONAL TREATY SIGNED 915 00:25:16,198 --> 00:25:17,693 AN INTERNATIONAL TREATY SIGNED IN THE 1930s, ESTABLISHED FOUR 916 00:25:17,693 --> 00:25:18,825 IN THE 1930s, ESTABLISHED FOUR REQUIREMENTS FOR STATE HOOD. 917 00:25:18,825 --> 00:25:20,693 REQUIREMENTS FOR STATE HOOD. ONE WAS RECOGNITION BY ANOTHER 918 00:25:20,693 --> 00:25:20,924 ONE WAS RECOGNITION BY ANOTHER STATE. 919 00:25:20,924 --> 00:25:24,000 STATE. SEALAND HAD ALREADY MET THE 920 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:24,330 SEALAND HAD ALREADY MET THE OTHER TESTS. 921 00:25:24,330 --> 00:25:26,297 OTHER TESTS. A GOVERNMENT, CHECK, A DEFINED 922 00:25:26,297 --> 00:25:27,528 A GOVERNMENT, CHECK, A DEFINED TERRITORY, CHECK. 923 00:25:27,528 --> 00:25:28,561 TERRITORY, CHECK. AND A PERMANENT POPULATION? 924 00:25:28,561 --> 00:25:30,264 AND A PERMANENT POPULATION? CHECK, THANKS TO MIKE 925 00:25:30,264 --> 00:25:30,561 CHECK, THANKS TO MIKE BARRINGTON. 926 00:25:30,561 --> 00:25:31,759 BARRINGTON. >> SO WHAT’S YOUR POSITION 927 00:25:31,759 --> 00:25:31,957 >> SO WHAT’S YOUR POSITION HERE? 928 00:25:31,957 --> 00:25:37,297 HERE? >> WELL, I DO MOSTLY 929 00:25:37,297 --> 00:25:37,693 >> WELL, I DO MOSTLY ENGINEERING WORK, 930 00:25:37,693 --> 00:25:38,231 ENGINEERING WORK, ELECTRICICALLY, WHATEVER. 931 00:25:38,231 --> 00:25:39,297 ELECTRICICALLY, WHATEVER. APPARENTLY I’M HEAD OF HOMELAND 932 00:25:39,297 --> 00:25:39,561 APPARENTLY I’M HEAD OF HOMELAND SECURITY. 933 00:25:39,561 --> 00:25:41,660 SECURITY. >> WHAT ARE YOU PROTECTING THIS 934 00:25:41,660 --> 00:25:41,957 >> WHAT ARE YOU PROTECTING THIS PLACE FROM? 935 00:25:41,957 --> 00:25:42,594 PLACE FROM? >> THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT OR 936 00:25:42,594 --> 00:25:43,726 >> THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT OR ANYBODY ELSE THAT DECIDES TO 937 00:25:43,726 --> 00:25:44,759 ANYBODY ELSE THAT DECIDES TO TAKE US OVER. 938 00:25:44,759 --> 00:25:46,528 TAKE US OVER. WE ARE A COUNTRY, AFTER ALL, A 939 00:25:46,528 --> 00:25:47,231 WE ARE A COUNTRY, AFTER ALL, A SMALL NATION. 940 00:25:47,231 --> 00:25:49,066 SMALL NATION. >> YOU’RE READY TO USE WEAPONS 941 00:25:49,066 --> 00:25:49,825 >> YOU’RE READY TO USE WEAPONS IF YOU HAVE TO? 942 00:25:49,825 --> 00:25:51,495 IF YOU HAVE TO? >> IF NEED BE, YES. 943 00:25:51,495 --> 00:25:51,858 >> IF NEED BE, YES. NO HESITATION. 944 00:25:51,858 --> 00:25:53,627 NO HESITATION. >> BUT IN RECENT YEARS TO KEEP 945 00:25:53,627 --> 00:25:55,000 >> BUT IN RECENT YEARS TO KEEP SEALAND AFLOAT, THE BATES 946 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,924 SEALAND AFLOAT, THE BATES FAMILY HAS UPDATED THEIR PIRATE 947 00:25:57,924 --> 00:26:00,033 FAMILY HAS UPDATED THEIR PIRATE RADIO SENSIBILITIES FOR THE 948 00:26:00,033 --> 00:26:00,264 RADIO SENSIBILITIES FOR THE TIMES. 949 00:26:00,264 --> 00:26:03,396 TIMES. IN THE EARLY 2000s, THEY 950 00:26:03,396 --> 00:26:04,594 IN THE EARLY 2000s, THEY PARTNERED WITH FRINGE INTERNET 951 00:26:04,594 --> 00:26:05,198 PARTNERED WITH FRINGE INTERNET ENTREPRENEURS, WHO INVESTED 952 00:26:05,198 --> 00:26:06,726 ENTREPRENEURS, WHO INVESTED MILLIONS WITH DESIGN OF TURNING 953 00:26:06,726 --> 00:26:09,231 MILLIONS WITH DESIGN OF TURNING SEALAND INTO AN OFFSHORE DATA 954 00:26:09,231 --> 00:26:09,462 SEALAND INTO AN OFFSHORE DATA HAVEN. 955 00:26:09,462 --> 00:26:10,099 HAVEN. PRINCE MICHAEL’S SON, PRINCE 956 00:26:10,099 --> 00:26:13,165 PRINCE MICHAEL’S SON, PRINCE JAMES, SHOWED US THE OLD SERVER 957 00:26:13,165 --> 00:26:13,363 JAMES, SHOWED US THE OLD SERVER ROOM. 958 00:26:13,363 --> 00:26:16,462 ROOM. >> WE USED TO RUN THINGS LIKE 959 00:26:16,462 --> 00:26:18,264 >> WE USED TO RUN THINGS LIKE GAMBLING SITES, PORN SITES. 960 00:26:18,264 --> 00:26:19,462 GAMBLING SITES, PORN SITES. WE HAD A FEW DUBIOUS PEOPLE 961 00:26:19,462 --> 00:26:23,165 WE HAD A FEW DUBIOUS PEOPLE ASKING US TO DO THINGS THAT WE 962 00:26:23,165 --> 00:26:24,429 ASKING US TO DO THINGS THAT WE DIDN’T REALLY AGREE WITH. 963 00:26:24,429 --> 00:26:26,165 DIDN’T REALLY AGREE WITH. THERE WAS AN ORGAN TRANSPLANT 964 00:26:26,165 --> 00:26:28,000 THERE WAS AN ORGAN TRANSPLANT COMPANY, LIKE HUMAN ORGANS THAT 965 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,264 COMPANY, LIKE HUMAN ORGANS THAT WANTED TO SET, HOST OUT HERE, 966 00:26:29,264 --> 00:26:30,792 WANTED TO SET, HOST OUT HERE, WHICH MY FATHER WAS AGAINST. 967 00:26:30,792 --> 00:26:32,066 WHICH MY FATHER WAS AGAINST. >> GAMBLING AND PORN WAS OKAY, 968 00:26:32,066 --> 00:26:34,231 >> GAMBLING AND PORN WAS OKAY, BUT WE DRAW THE LINE AT 969 00:26:34,231 --> 00:26:35,363 BUT WE DRAW THE LINE AT HARVESTING HUMAN ORGANS? 970 00:26:35,363 --> 00:26:36,231 HARVESTING HUMAN ORGANS? >> YES, EXACTLY. 971 00:26:36,231 --> 00:26:39,363 >> YES, EXACTLY. >> THAT VENTURE FAILED 972 00:26:39,363 --> 00:26:39,627 >> THAT VENTURE FAILED DISMALLY. 973 00:26:39,627 --> 00:26:41,462 DISMALLY. BUT TODAY, JAMES AND HIS 974 00:26:41,462 --> 00:26:44,033 BUT TODAY, JAMES AND HIS YOUNGER BROTHER, PRINCE LIAM, 975 00:26:44,033 --> 00:26:45,825 YOUNGER BROTHER, PRINCE LIAM, ARE STILL HARNESSING THE POWER 976 00:26:45,825 --> 00:26:46,330 ARE STILL HARNESSING THE POWER OF THE INTERNET. 977 00:26:46,330 --> 00:26:47,165 OF THE INTERNET. THE BATES FAMILY WON’T DISCLOSE 978 00:26:47,165 --> 00:26:48,891 THE BATES FAMILY WON’T DISCLOSE THE SIZE OF THE NATIONAL DEBT 979 00:26:48,891 --> 00:26:50,528 THE SIZE OF THE NATIONAL DEBT OR THE YEARLY BUDGET, BUT IT IS 980 00:26:50,528 --> 00:26:52,000 OR THE YEARLY BUDGET, BUT IT IS SERVICED THROUGH THE ONLINE 981 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:52,528 SERVICED THROUGH THE ONLINE SALE OF NOBLE TITLES. 982 00:26:52,528 --> 00:26:56,165 SALE OF NOBLE TITLES. BECOME A LORD OR LADY FOR $30. 983 00:26:56,165 --> 00:26:59,825 BECOME A LORD OR LADY FOR $30. $600 WILL MAKE YOU A SEALAND 984 00:26:59,825 --> 00:27:00,231 $600 WILL MAKE YOU A SEALAND DUKE OR DUCHESS. 985 00:27:00,231 --> 00:27:02,033 DUKE OR DUCHESS. >> AND PEOPLE ARE BUYING THESE 986 00:27:02,033 --> 00:27:02,264 >> AND PEOPLE ARE BUYING THESE TITLES? 987 00:27:02,264 --> 00:27:03,000 TITLES? WHAT IS IT ALL ABOUT? 988 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,693 WHAT IS IT ALL ABOUT? >> I THINK IT MEANS SO MANY 989 00:27:04,693 --> 00:27:07,198 >> I THINK IT MEANS SO MANY THINGS TO SO MANY DIFFERENT 990 00:27:07,198 --> 00:27:07,429 THINGS TO SO MANY DIFFERENT PEOPLE. 991 00:27:07,429 --> 00:27:10,363 PEOPLE. SOME PEOPLE LOVE THE ACT OF 992 00:27:10,363 --> 00:27:10,792 SOME PEOPLE LOVE THE ACT OF POLITICAL DEFIANCE. 993 00:27:10,792 --> 00:27:11,825 POLITICAL DEFIANCE. SOME PEOPLE LOVE THE LOVE STORY 994 00:27:11,825 --> 00:27:14,792 SOME PEOPLE LOVE THE LOVE STORY THAT RAN THROUGH IT WITH MY 995 00:27:14,792 --> 00:27:15,231 THAT RAN THROUGH IT WITH MY GRAM AND GRANDPA. 996 00:27:15,231 --> 00:27:17,429 GRAM AND GRANDPA. SOME PEOPLE LOVE, YOU KNOW, 997 00:27:17,429 --> 00:27:18,759 SOME PEOPLE LOVE, YOU KNOW, DAVID AGAINST GOLIATH. 998 00:27:18,759 --> 00:27:20,495 DAVID AGAINST GOLIATH. >> THAT NATIONAL MYTH, THE VERY 999 00:27:20,495 --> 00:27:23,000 >> THAT NATIONAL MYTH, THE VERY IDEA OF SEALAND HAS NOW FAR 1000 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:23,594 IDEA OF SEALAND HAS NOW FAR OUTGROWN THE COUNTRY ITSELF. 1001 00:27:23,594 --> 00:27:25,594 OUTGROWN THE COUNTRY ITSELF. AS FOR THE HOUSE OF BATES, 1002 00:27:25,594 --> 00:27:29,594 AS FOR THE HOUSE OF BATES, WELL, ROY AND JOAN HAVE PASSED 1003 00:27:29,594 --> 00:27:29,759 WELL, ROY AND JOAN HAVE PASSED ON. 1004 00:27:29,759 --> 00:27:31,330 ON. AND THE REST OF THE LINEAGE 1005 00:27:31,330 --> 00:27:35,726 AND THE REST OF THE LINEAGE LIVES IN THE SMALL ENGLISH 1006 00:27:35,726 --> 00:27:36,825 LIVES IN THE SMALL ENGLISH RESORT TOWN OF SOUTH-END-ON- 1007 00:27:36,825 --> 00:27:37,033 RESORT TOWN OF SOUTH-END-ON- SEA. 1008 00:27:37,033 --> 00:27:40,495 SEA. PRINCES JAMES AND LIAM RUN A 1009 00:27:40,495 --> 00:27:41,363 PRINCES JAMES AND LIAM RUN A BUSINESS HARVESTING COCKLES. 1010 00:27:41,363 --> 00:27:44,363 BUSINESS HARVESTING COCKLES. PRINCESS PENNY RUNS A BOTOX 1011 00:27:44,363 --> 00:27:44,858 PRINCESS PENNY RUNS A BOTOX CLINIC NEARBY. 1012 00:27:44,858 --> 00:27:46,429 CLINIC NEARBY. AND SEVEN YEARS AGO, PRINCE 1013 00:27:46,429 --> 00:27:48,264 AND SEVEN YEARS AGO, PRINCE MICHAEL MARRIED AND WELCOMED A 1014 00:27:48,264 --> 00:27:52,033 MICHAEL MARRIED AND WELCOMED A NEW PRINCESS, MAE SHI, A FORMER 1015 00:27:52,033 --> 00:27:54,066 NEW PRINCESS, MAE SHI, A FORMER ARTILLERY MAJOR IN CHINA’S 1016 00:27:54,066 --> 00:27:54,957 ARTILLERY MAJOR IN CHINA’S PEOPLE’S LIBERATION ARMY. 1017 00:27:54,957 --> 00:27:57,528 PEOPLE’S LIBERATION ARMY. SIX DECADES AFTER FOUNDING 1018 00:27:57,528 --> 00:27:59,033 SIX DECADES AFTER FOUNDING THEIR PRIVATE LITTLE COUNTRY, 1019 00:27:59,033 --> 00:28:00,726 THEIR PRIVATE LITTLE COUNTRY, THE ROYAL FAMILY REMAINS 1020 00:28:00,726 --> 00:28:01,231 THE ROYAL FAMILY REMAINS COMMITTED TO THE BIT. 1021 00:28:01,231 --> 00:28:04,561 COMMITTED TO THE BIT. >> THIS IS A GOLDEN AGE FOR 1022 00:28:04,561 --> 00:28:04,825 >> THIS IS A GOLDEN AGE FOR SEALAND? 1023 00:28:04,825 --> 00:28:05,198 SEALAND? >> HOPEFULLY. 1024 00:28:05,198 --> 00:28:07,066 >> HOPEFULLY. >> IF THE BRITISH NAVY ROLLED 1025 00:28:07,066 --> 00:28:09,528 >> IF THE BRITISH NAVY ROLLED UP TOMORROW AND SAID, IT’S TIME 1026 00:28:09,528 --> 00:28:10,132 UP TOMORROW AND SAID, IT’S TIME TO RECLAIM SEALAND. 1027 00:28:10,132 --> 00:28:11,198 TO RECLAIM SEALAND. HOW DO YOU RESPOND? 1028 00:28:11,198 --> 00:28:13,066 HOW DO YOU RESPOND? >> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I’M SURE 1029 00:28:13,066 --> 00:28:14,066 >> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I’M SURE THEY WOULDN’T. 1030 00:28:14,066 --> 00:28:15,792 THEY WOULDN’T. BUT IF THEY DID, I’D JUST GET 1031 00:28:15,792 --> 00:28:17,363 BUT IF THEY DID, I’D JUST GET THE BEST CHINA OUT AND MAKE A 1032 00:28:17,363 --> 00:28:18,594 THE BEST CHINA OUT AND MAKE A NICE CUP OF TEA. 1033 00:28:18,594 --> 00:28:21,792 NICE CUP OF TEA. >> THE ROYAL FAMILY’S LATEST 1034 00:28:21,792 --> 00:28:22,033 >> THE ROYAL FAMILY’S LATEST GAMBIT? 1035 00:28:22,033 --> 00:28:23,363 GAMBIT? AN E-CITIZENSHIP PROGRAM THAT 1036 00:28:23,363 --> 00:28:25,660 AN E-CITIZENSHIP PROGRAM THAT SIGNED UP THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE 1037 00:28:25,660 --> 00:28:26,330 SIGNED UP THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE FROM 134 COUNTRIES. 1038 00:28:26,330 --> 00:28:29,825 FROM 134 COUNTRIES. EACH PAYS $10 A MONTH TO HELP 1039 00:28:29,825 --> 00:28:30,330 EACH PAYS $10 A MONTH TO HELP KEEP SEALAND STANDING. 1040 00:28:30,330 --> 00:28:32,231 KEEP SEALAND STANDING. [ STOPWATCH TICKING ] 1041 00:28:36,033 --> 00:28:37,825 >>> GETTING TO AND STAYING ON 1042 00:28:37,825 --> 00:28:38,099 >>> GETTING TO AND STAYING ON SEALAND. 1043 00:28:38,099 --> 00:28:41,000 SEALAND. >> I’D BE LYING IF I SAID IT’S 1044 00:28:54,825 --> 00:28:54,957 >> I’D BE LYING IF I SAID IT’S THE MOST THE MOST 1045 00:28:54,957 --> 00:28:56,858 >>> CHRISTOPHER NOLAN IS AMONG 1046 00:28:56,858 --> 00:28:59,000 >>> CHRISTOPHER NOLAN IS AMONG THE GREAT HOLLYWOOD DIRECTORS 1047 00:28:59,000 --> 00:28:59,495 THE GREAT HOLLYWOOD DIRECTORS OF HIS GENERATION. 1048 00:28:59,495 --> 00:29:01,957 OF HIS GENERATION. HIS BLOCKBUSTERS HAVE WON 18 1049 00:29:01,957 --> 00:29:05,726 HIS BLOCKBUSTERS HAVE WON 18 ACADEMY AWARDS AND HAULED IN 1050 00:29:05,726 --> 00:29:07,957 ACADEMY AWARDS AND HAULED IN MORE THAN $6 BILLION. 1051 00:29:07,957 --> 00:29:10,396 MORE THAN $6 BILLION. NEXT, NOLAN WILL RELEASE THIS 1052 00:29:10,396 --> 00:29:15,495 NEXT, NOLAN WILL RELEASE THIS SUMMER HIS ADAPTATION OF THE 1053 00:29:15,495 --> 00:29:16,198 SUMMER HIS ADAPTATION OF THE NEARLY 3,000-YEAR-OLD STORY, 1054 00:29:16,198 --> 00:29:16,924 NEARLY 3,000-YEAR-OLD STORY, "THE ODYSSEY." 1055 00:29:16,924 --> 00:29:18,627 "THE ODYSSEY." WE MET THE 55-YEAR-OLD BRITISH 1056 00:29:18,627 --> 00:29:21,165 WE MET THE 55-YEAR-OLD BRITISH AMERICAN IN HIS OFFICE IN L.A., 1057 00:29:21,165 --> 00:29:28,033 AMERICAN IN HIS OFFICE IN L.A., WHERE HE WROTE EPICS INCLUDING 1058 00:29:28,033 --> 00:29:28,594 WHERE HE WROTE EPICS INCLUDING "OPPENHEIMER," "DUNKIRK," 1059 00:29:28,594 --> 00:29:29,561 "OPPENHEIMER," "DUNKIRK," "INCEPTION," "INTERSTELLAR," 1060 00:29:29,561 --> 00:29:30,396 "INCEPTION," "INTERSTELLAR," AND "THE DARK KNIGHT." 1061 00:29:30,396 --> 00:29:32,660 AND "THE DARK KNIGHT." A NOLAN MOVIE IS A SPECTACLE, 1062 00:29:32,660 --> 00:29:36,297 A NOLAN MOVIE IS A SPECTACLE, BIG AND LOUD AT THE LIMITS OF 1063 00:29:36,297 --> 00:29:36,726 BIG AND LOUD AT THE LIMITS OF WHAT’S POSSIBLE. 1064 00:29:36,726 --> 00:29:40,462 WHAT’S POSSIBLE. BUT A NOLAN STORY IS GRACE, 1065 00:29:40,462 --> 00:29:42,231 BUT A NOLAN STORY IS GRACE, IMPERFECT PEOPLE REVEALING WHAT 1066 00:29:42,231 --> 00:29:45,132 IMPERFECT PEOPLE REVEALING WHAT IT IS TO BE HUMAN. 1067 00:29:45,132 --> 00:29:46,924 IT IS TO BE HUMAN. "THE ODYSSEY" IS NOLAN’S MOST 1068 00:29:46,924 --> 00:29:47,330 "THE ODYSSEY" IS NOLAN’S MOST AMBITIOUS YET. 1069 00:29:47,330 --> 00:29:50,264 AMBITIOUS YET. IT HAD TO BE, HE TOLD US, 1070 00:29:50,264 --> 00:29:52,330 IT HAD TO BE, HE TOLD US, BECAUSE HE IMAGINES EVERY FILM 1071 00:29:52,330 --> 00:29:56,924 BECAUSE HE IMAGINES EVERY FILM IS THE LAST HE WILL EVER MAKE. 1072 00:29:56,924 --> 00:30:01,957 IS THE LAST HE WILL EVER MAKE. >> I FEEL A REAL RESPONSIBILITY 1073 00:30:01,957 --> 00:30:03,561 >> I FEEL A REAL RESPONSIBILITY TO TRY AND GET AS MUCH ON 1074 00:30:03,561 --> 00:30:07,099 TO TRY AND GET AS MUCH ON SCREEN FOR THE AUDIENCE AS 1075 00:30:07,099 --> 00:30:07,363 SCREEN FOR THE AUDIENCE AS POSSIBLE. 1076 00:30:07,363 --> 00:30:13,198 POSSIBLE. TO GIVE THE AUDIENCE THE 1077 00:30:13,198 --> 00:30:14,363 TO GIVE THE AUDIENCE THE FULLEST FLAVOR, THE FULLEST SET 1078 00:30:14,363 --> 00:30:14,627 FULLEST FLAVOR, THE FULLEST SET OF 1079 00:30:14,627 --> 00:30:18,000 OF IMAGES AND EVENTS THAT WE CAN 1080 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,759 IMAGES AND EVENTS THAT WE CAN GIVE THEM FOR A STORY. 1081 00:30:20,759 --> 00:30:22,264 GIVE THEM FOR A STORY. >> WHAT ARE THE ESSENTIAL 1082 00:30:22,264 --> 00:30:24,132 >> WHAT ARE THE ESSENTIAL ELEMENTS OF A CHRISTOPHER NOLAN 1083 00:30:24,132 --> 00:30:24,330 ELEMENTS OF A CHRISTOPHER NOLAN FILM? 1084 00:30:24,330 --> 00:30:26,726 FILM? >> I ALWAYS TRY TO HAVE A POINT 1085 00:30:26,726 --> 00:30:28,825 >> I ALWAYS TRY TO HAVE A POINT OF VIEW ON THE STORY THAT’S 1086 00:30:28,825 --> 00:30:29,924 OF VIEW ON THE STORY THAT’S FROM INSIDE THE FILM. 1087 00:30:29,924 --> 00:30:32,033 FROM INSIDE THE FILM. SO I’M NOT LOOKING AT THE 1088 00:30:32,033 --> 00:30:32,858 SO I’M NOT LOOKING AT THE CHARACTERS FROM 30,000 FEET. 1089 00:30:32,858 --> 00:30:39,594 CHARACTERS FROM 30,000 FEET. I’M TRYING TO BE IN THE RACE, 1090 00:30:39,594 --> 00:30:40,297 I’M TRYING TO BE IN THE RACE, IN THE MAZE WITH THEM. 1091 00:30:40,297 --> 00:30:41,858 IN THE MAZE WITH THEM. BECAUSE I WANT TO TRY TO GIVE 1092 00:30:41,858 --> 00:30:44,924 BECAUSE I WANT TO TRY TO GIVE THE AUDIENCE A SENSE OF WHAT A 1093 00:30:44,924 --> 00:30:47,792 THE AUDIENCE A SENSE OF WHAT A PLACE WOULD SMELL LIKE, WHAT IT 1094 00:30:47,792 --> 00:30:48,363 PLACE WOULD SMELL LIKE, WHAT IT WOULD FEEL LIKE. 1095 00:30:48,363 --> 00:30:51,429 WOULD FEEL LIKE. BUT YOU’RE ALSO TRYING TO MAKE 1096 00:30:51,429 --> 00:30:52,957 BUT YOU’RE ALSO TRYING TO MAKE THE MOST INVOLVING, THE MOST 1097 00:30:52,957 --> 00:30:58,198 THE MOST INVOLVING, THE MOST EXTREME VERSION OF A STORY 1098 00:30:58,198 --> 00:31:01,165 EXTREME VERSION OF A STORY POSSIBLE. 1099 00:31:01,165 --> 00:31:03,561 POSSIBLE. >> NOLAN’S "ODYSSEY" IS AN 1100 00:31:03,561 --> 00:31:04,825 >> NOLAN’S "ODYSSEY" IS AN EXTREME VERSION OF THE BRONZE 1101 00:31:04,825 --> 00:31:09,396 EXTREME VERSION OF THE BRONZE AGE WAR FOUGHT BY THE 1102 00:31:09,396 --> 00:31:09,891 AGE WAR FOUGHT BY THE SOLDIER-KING ODYSSEUS. 1103 00:31:09,891 --> 00:31:12,759 SOLDIER-KING ODYSSEUS. WITH HIS TROJAN HORSE 1104 00:31:12,759 --> 00:31:15,198 WITH HIS TROJAN HORSE DECEPTIONS AND 10-YEAR STRUGGLE 1105 00:31:15,198 --> 00:31:16,033 DECEPTIONS AND 10-YEAR STRUGGLE TO RETURN HOME. 1106 00:31:16,033 --> 00:31:18,561 TO RETURN HOME. "THE ODYSSEY" IS NOLAN’S 13th 1107 00:31:18,561 --> 00:31:20,231 "THE ODYSSEY" IS NOLAN’S 13th FILM IN 28 YEARS. 1108 00:31:20,231 --> 00:31:22,891 FILM IN 28 YEARS. AND UNLIKE MANY DIRECTORS, HE 1109 00:31:22,891 --> 00:31:23,891 AND UNLIKE MANY DIRECTORS, HE WRITES THE SCREENPLAYS. 1110 00:31:23,891 --> 00:31:25,594 WRITES THE SCREENPLAYS. >> WHEN I’M WRITING, I’M 1111 00:31:25,594 --> 00:31:29,231 >> WHEN I’M WRITING, I’M VISUALIZING THE FILM AS AN 1112 00:31:29,231 --> 00:31:32,495 VISUALIZING THE FILM AS AN AUDIENCE MEMBER, AS SOMEBODY 1113 00:31:32,495 --> 00:31:33,033 AUDIENCE MEMBER, AS SOMEBODY EXPERIENCING THE STORY. 1114 00:31:33,033 --> 00:31:34,198 EXPERIENCING THE STORY. THEN WHEN I DIRECT THE STORY, 1115 00:31:34,198 --> 00:31:35,726 THEN WHEN I DIRECT THE STORY, I’M TRYING TO TAKE THE AUDIENCE 1116 00:31:35,726 --> 00:31:35,957 I’M TRYING TO TAKE THE AUDIENCE THERE. 1117 00:31:35,957 --> 00:31:36,792 THERE. SO IN THE CASE OF THE 1118 00:31:36,792 --> 00:31:41,594 SO IN THE CASE OF THE "ODYSSEY," I’M TRYING TO PUT 1119 00:31:41,594 --> 00:31:42,363 "ODYSSEY," I’M TRYING TO PUT THE AUDIENCE INTO THAT HORSE. 1120 00:31:42,363 --> 00:31:48,561 THE AUDIENCE INTO THAT HORSE. I’M TRYING TO PUT THEM ON THE 1121 00:31:48,561 --> 00:31:49,231 I’M TRYING TO PUT THEM ON THE DECK OF ODYSSEUS’ SHIP. 1122 00:31:49,231 --> 00:31:51,726 DECK OF ODYSSEUS’ SHIP. >> YOU DON’T WANT THE AUDIENCE 1123 00:31:51,726 --> 00:31:52,495 >> YOU DON’T WANT THE AUDIENCE TO WATCH THE FILM. 1124 00:31:52,495 --> 00:31:56,132 TO WATCH THE FILM. YOU WANT THE AUDIENCE TO BE IN 1125 00:31:56,132 --> 00:31:56,759 YOU WANT THE AUDIENCE TO BE IN THE FILM? 1126 00:31:56,759 --> 00:31:57,231 THE FILM? >> VERY MUCH, YEAH. 1127 00:31:57,231 --> 00:32:00,132 >> VERY MUCH, YEAH. AND TO HAVE A FEELING OF HAVING 1128 00:32:00,132 --> 00:32:00,660 AND TO HAVE A FEELING OF HAVING CONNECTED WITH THESE 1129 00:32:00,660 --> 00:32:05,429 CONNECTED WITH THESE CHARACTERS, HAVING LIVED IN THE 1130 00:32:05,429 --> 00:32:06,330 CHARACTERS, HAVING LIVED IN THE WORLD WITH THESE CHARACTERS. 1131 00:32:06,330 --> 00:32:06,627 WORLD WITH THESE CHARACTERS. >> ACTION! 1132 00:32:06,627 --> 00:32:08,264 >> ACTION! >> WE’RE SITTING NEXT TO YOUR 1133 00:32:08,264 --> 00:32:08,462 >> WE’RE SITTING NEXT TO YOUR DESK. 1134 00:32:08,462 --> 00:32:08,693 DESK. >> YEP. 1135 00:32:08,693 --> 00:32:09,759 >> YEP. >> AND I COULDN’T HELP, BUT 1136 00:32:09,759 --> 00:32:14,033 >> AND I COULDN’T HELP, BUT NOTICE THERE’S A BOOK RIGHT 1137 00:32:14,033 --> 00:32:16,000 NOTICE THERE’S A BOOK RIGHT NEXT TO ME CALLED, "HOW TO MAKE 1138 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:16,330 NEXT TO ME CALLED, "HOW TO MAKE GOOD MOVIES." 1139 00:32:16,330 --> 00:32:16,825 GOOD MOVIES." SO THIS IS IT? 1140 00:32:16,825 --> 00:32:17,660 SO THIS IS IT? THIS IS THE SECRET? 1141 00:32:17,660 --> 00:32:18,957 THIS IS THE SECRET? >> THAT’S THE SECRET, YEAH. 1142 00:32:18,957 --> 00:32:20,363 >> THAT’S THE SECRET, YEAH. I TRIED TO TIDY UP BEFORE YOU 1143 00:32:20,363 --> 00:32:22,396 I TRIED TO TIDY UP BEFORE YOU CAME AND HIDE ALL MY SECRETS, 1144 00:32:22,396 --> 00:32:22,627 CAME AND HIDE ALL MY SECRETS, BUT -- 1145 00:32:22,627 --> 00:32:22,792 BUT -- >> 1146 00:32:22,792 --> 00:32:24,660 >> IT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS WRITTEN IN 1147 00:32:24,660 --> 00:32:25,858 IT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS WRITTEN IN THE 1950s, AND THERE’S A GUY 1148 00:32:25,858 --> 00:32:31,264 THE 1950s, AND THERE’S A GUY WITH A SUPER 8 CAMERA ON THE 1149 00:32:31,264 --> 00:32:31,495 WITH A SUPER 8 CAMERA ON THE COVER. 1150 00:32:31,495 --> 00:32:33,132 COVER. >> ACTUALLY OLD ENOUGH TO HAVE 1151 00:32:33,132 --> 00:32:34,165 >> ACTUALLY OLD ENOUGH TO HAVE STARTED ON SUPER 8. MY FAMILY 1152 00:32:34,165 --> 00:32:36,627 STARTED ON SUPER 8. MY FAMILY HAD A SUPER 8 CAMERA INSTEAD OF 1153 00:32:36,627 --> 00:32:38,858 HAD A SUPER 8 CAMERA INSTEAD OF A VIDEO CAMERA. 1154 00:32:38,858 --> 00:32:39,495 A VIDEO CAMERA. >> MY EARLIEST MEMORIES, 1155 00:32:39,495 --> 00:32:44,198 >> MY EARLIEST MEMORIES, LITERALLY ARE OF CHRIS MAKING 1156 00:32:44,198 --> 00:32:44,429 LITERALLY ARE OF CHRIS MAKING MOVIES. 1157 00:32:44,429 --> 00:32:45,858 MOVIES. >> NOLAN’S YOUNGER BROTHER, 1158 00:32:45,858 --> 00:32:46,759 >> NOLAN’S YOUNGER BROTHER, JONATHAN, IS A HOLLYWOOD 1159 00:32:46,759 --> 00:32:50,066 JONATHAN, IS A HOLLYWOOD DIRECTOR, WHO TOLD US THAT 1160 00:32:50,066 --> 00:32:51,528 DIRECTOR, WHO TOLD US THAT CHRIS WAS HANDED THE FAMILY 1161 00:32:51,528 --> 00:32:53,462 CHRIS WAS HANDED THE FAMILY EIGHT MILLIMETER CAMERA TO KEEP 1162 00:32:53,462 --> 00:32:53,726 EIGHT MILLIMETER CAMERA TO KEEP HIM BUSY. 1163 00:32:53,726 --> 00:32:55,462 HIM BUSY. >> OUR TAKE ON STAR WARS, OF 1164 00:32:55,462 --> 00:32:56,462 >> OUR TAKE ON STAR WARS, OF COURSE, IN THE BASEMENT, 1165 00:32:56,462 --> 00:33:00,462 COURSE, IN THE BASEMENT, BLOWING UP SOME OF MY TOYS WITH 1166 00:33:00,462 --> 00:33:00,825 BLOWING UP SOME OF MY TOYS WITH FIRE CRACKERS. 1167 00:33:00,825 --> 00:33:01,528 FIRE CRACKERS. PROBABLY -- PROBABLY EIGHT OR 1168 00:33:01,528 --> 00:33:02,924 PROBABLY -- PROBABLY EIGHT OR NINE YEARS OLD AT THAT POINT. 1169 00:33:02,924 --> 00:33:04,462 NINE YEARS OLD AT THAT POINT. I WOULD HAVE BEEN THREE OR 1170 00:33:04,462 --> 00:33:04,660 I WOULD HAVE BEEN THREE OR FOUR. 1171 00:33:04,660 --> 00:33:06,429 FOUR. >> WHAT WAS IT THAT FASCINATED 1172 00:33:06,429 --> 00:33:07,297 >> WHAT WAS IT THAT FASCINATED HIM ABOUT THE CAMERA? 1173 00:33:07,297 --> 00:33:09,363 HIM ABOUT THE CAMERA? >> I THINK HE’S JUST ALWAYS 1174 00:33:09,363 --> 00:33:11,792 >> I THINK HE’S JUST ALWAYS BEEN CAPTIVATED BY THE IDEA 1175 00:33:11,792 --> 00:33:13,198 BEEN CAPTIVATED BY THE IDEA THAT YOU COULD TAKE THIS DEVICE 1176 00:33:13,198 --> 00:33:17,363 THAT YOU COULD TAKE THIS DEVICE AND USE IT AS A PORTAL INTO 1177 00:33:17,363 --> 00:33:17,759 AND USE IT AS A PORTAL INTO ANOTHER UNIVERSE. 1178 00:33:17,759 --> 00:33:19,363 ANOTHER UNIVERSE. IT WAS LIKE A DOOR. 1179 00:33:19,363 --> 00:33:21,528 IT WAS LIKE A DOOR. >> ANOTHER UNIVERSE, BUT A DOOR 1180 00:33:21,528 --> 00:33:24,264 >> ANOTHER UNIVERSE, BUT A DOOR THAT, AT FIRST, CHRIS NOLAN HAD 1181 00:33:24,264 --> 00:33:28,462 THAT, AT FIRST, CHRIS NOLAN HAD TO BATTER THROUGH. 1182 00:33:28,462 --> 00:33:28,924 TO BATTER THROUGH. LIKE THE ASTRONAUT IN 1183 00:33:28,924 --> 00:33:30,792 LIKE THE ASTRONAUT IN "INTERSTELLAR." 1184 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,561 >> AS A YOUNG MAN, YOU 1185 00:33:33,561 --> 00:33:37,132 >> AS A YOUNG MAN, YOU GRADUATED WITH A DEGREE IN 1186 00:33:37,132 --> 00:33:37,429 GRADUATED WITH A DEGREE IN LITERATURE. 1187 00:33:37,429 --> 00:33:37,627 LITERATURE. HMM. 1188 00:33:37,627 --> 00:33:39,495 HMM. >> YOU APPLIED TO FILM SCHOOL? 1189 00:33:39,495 --> 00:33:39,891 >> YOU APPLIED TO FILM SCHOOL? >> MHMM. 1190 00:33:39,891 --> 00:33:41,132 >> MHMM. >> AND THEY TURNED YOU DOWN. 1191 00:33:41,132 --> 00:33:43,132 >> AND THEY TURNED YOU DOWN. >> HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT? 1192 00:33:43,132 --> 00:33:43,462 >> HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT? >> RESEARCH. 1193 00:33:43,462 --> 00:33:43,759 >> RESEARCH. >> GOD. 1194 00:33:43,759 --> 00:33:47,858 >> GOD. >> YOU KNOW ABOUT RESEARCH? 1195 00:33:47,858 --> 00:33:48,660 >> YOU KNOW ABOUT RESEARCH? >> OH YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. 1196 00:33:48,660 --> 00:33:48,858 >> OH YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. YES. 1197 00:33:48,858 --> 00:33:51,033 YES. >> WHAT DID THE FILM SCHOOL 1198 00:33:51,033 --> 00:33:51,297 >> WHAT DID THE FILM SCHOOL TELL YOU? 1199 00:33:51,297 --> 00:33:51,627 TELL YOU? >> NOTHING. 1200 00:33:51,627 --> 00:33:54,693 >> NOTHING. YOU JUST GOT A LETTER SAYING, 1201 00:33:54,693 --> 00:33:55,000 YOU JUST GOT A LETTER SAYING, NO THANKS. 1202 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,165 NO THANKS. >> I WANT TO BE A WRITER 1203 00:33:57,165 --> 00:33:57,396 >> I WANT TO BE A WRITER ANYWAY. 1204 00:33:57,396 --> 00:34:00,066 ANYWAY. >> DESPITE NO THANKS, HE KEPT 1205 00:34:00,066 --> 00:34:04,033 >> DESPITE NO THANKS, HE KEPT SHOOTING FILMS ON WEEKENDS WITH 1206 00:34:04,033 --> 00:34:04,297 SHOOTING FILMS ON WEEKENDS WITH FRIENDS. 1207 00:34:04,297 --> 00:34:09,363 FRIENDS. THEN IN 1999, A TURNING POINT. 1208 00:34:09,363 --> 00:34:10,396 THEN IN 1999, A TURNING POINT. HE MADE "MEMENTO." 1209 00:34:10,396 --> 00:34:11,528 HE MADE "MEMENTO." >> I DON’T REMEMBER. 1210 00:34:11,528 --> 00:34:16,825 >> I DON’T REMEMBER. >> IT’S A COMPLEX MYSTERY WITH 1211 00:34:16,825 --> 00:34:18,957 >> IT’S A COMPLEX MYSTERY WITH AN AMNESIAC INVESTIGATOR WHO 1212 00:34:18,957 --> 00:34:20,066 AN AMNESIAC INVESTIGATOR WHO REMEMBERS CLUES THROUGH 1213 00:34:20,066 --> 00:34:20,330 REMEMBERS CLUES THROUGH TATTOOS. 1214 00:34:20,330 --> 00:34:24,297 TATTOOS. THIS WAS AN EARLY REVEAL OF 1215 00:34:24,297 --> 00:34:26,429 THIS WAS AN EARLY REVEAL OF NOLAN’S TRADEMARK, AN INTRICATE 1216 00:34:26,429 --> 00:34:29,198 NOLAN’S TRADEMARK, AN INTRICATE PLOT OF SHIFTING TIMELINES THAT 1217 00:34:29,198 --> 00:34:31,429 PLOT OF SHIFTING TIMELINES THAT CHALLENGES THE AUDIENCE TO KEEP 1218 00:34:31,429 --> 00:34:31,594 CHALLENGES THE AUDIENCE TO KEEP UP. 1219 00:34:31,594 --> 00:34:34,957 UP. BUT MOVIE EXECUTIVES FEARED IT 1220 00:34:34,957 --> 00:34:35,330 BUT MOVIE EXECUTIVES FEARED IT WAS CONFUSING. 1221 00:34:35,330 --> 00:34:37,792 WAS CONFUSING. >> SOMETHING DOESN’T FEEL 1222 00:34:37,792 --> 00:34:38,033 >> SOMETHING DOESN’T FEEL RIGHT. 1223 00:34:38,033 --> 00:34:41,528 RIGHT. >> NO ONE WANTED TO DISTRIBUTE 1224 00:34:41,528 --> 00:34:41,825 >> NO ONE WANTED TO DISTRIBUTE "MEMENTO." 1225 00:34:41,825 --> 00:34:42,099 "MEMENTO." >> YEAH. 1226 00:34:42,099 --> 00:34:43,066 >> YEAH. WELL, YOU DON’T HAVE TO SAY IT 1227 00:34:43,066 --> 00:34:45,165 WELL, YOU DON’T HAVE TO SAY IT QUITE LIKE THAT, QUITE SO 1228 00:34:45,165 --> 00:34:45,429 QUITE LIKE THAT, QUITE SO STERNLY. 1229 00:34:45,429 --> 00:34:46,627 STERNLY. I MEAN, IT HAD -- 1230 00:34:46,627 --> 00:34:46,792 I MEAN, IT HAD -- >> 1231 00:34:46,792 --> 00:34:49,891 >> WELL, THIS STORY HAS A HAPPEN 1232 00:34:49,891 --> 00:34:50,132 WELL, THIS STORY HAS A HAPPEN ENDING. 1233 00:34:50,132 --> 00:34:52,297 ENDING. >> THE THIS STORY DOES HAVE A 1234 00:34:52,297 --> 00:34:52,627 >> THE THIS STORY DOES HAVE A HAPPY ENDING. 1235 00:34:52,627 --> 00:34:54,858 HAPPY ENDING. AND NO, IT WAS A LESSON IN 1236 00:34:54,858 --> 00:34:59,891 AND NO, IT WAS A LESSON IN HUMILITY, IT WAS A LESSON OF 1237 00:34:59,891 --> 00:35:00,165 HUMILITY, IT WAS A LESSON OF PATIENCE. 1238 00:35:00,165 --> 00:35:00,726 PATIENCE. OF INDEPENDENT FILMMAKING, 1239 00:35:00,726 --> 00:35:02,264 OF INDEPENDENT FILMMAKING, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, YOU FINISH 1240 00:35:02,264 --> 00:35:04,726 WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, YOU FINISH A FILM, AND YOU REALLY FEEL 1241 00:35:04,726 --> 00:35:05,330 A FILM, AND YOU REALLY FEEL YOU’VE ACHIEVED SOMETHING. 1242 00:35:05,330 --> 00:35:06,594 YOU’VE ACHIEVED SOMETHING. BUT CONVINCINGLY THE INDUSTRY 1243 00:35:06,594 --> 00:35:07,561 BUT CONVINCINGLY THE INDUSTRY OF THAT, THE DISTRIBUTERS OF 1244 00:35:07,561 --> 00:35:08,891 OF THAT, THE DISTRIBUTERS OF THAT, IT CAN TAKE A LONG TIME. 1245 00:35:08,891 --> 00:35:10,924 THAT, IT CAN TAKE A LONG TIME. >> IT TOOK A YEAR TO FIND 1246 00:35:10,924 --> 00:35:13,594 >> IT TOOK A YEAR TO FIND SOMEONE TO DISTRIBUTE 1247 00:35:13,594 --> 00:35:13,891 SOMEONE TO DISTRIBUTE "MEMENTO." 1248 00:35:13,891 --> 00:35:15,891 "MEMENTO." BUT AUDIENCES FOUND AMNESIA 1249 00:35:15,891 --> 00:35:16,264 BUT AUDIENCES FOUND AMNESIA UNFORGETTABLE. 1250 00:35:16,264 --> 00:35:16,825 UNFORGETTABLE. AND THE SO-CALLED CONFUSING 1251 00:35:16,825 --> 00:35:20,792 AND THE SO-CALLED CONFUSING SCREENPLAY WAS NOMINATED FOR AN 1252 00:35:20,792 --> 00:35:21,033 SCREENPLAY WAS NOMINATED FOR AN OSCAR. 1253 00:35:21,033 --> 00:35:23,561 OSCAR. >> EVERY NO THAT HE GOT JUST 1254 00:35:23,561 --> 00:35:26,231 >> EVERY NO THAT HE GOT JUST CONFIRMED FOR HIM EVEN MORE 1255 00:35:26,231 --> 00:35:27,759 CONFIRMED FOR HIM EVEN MORE THAT HE WANTED TO DO THIS. 1256 00:35:27,759 --> 00:35:30,363 THAT HE WANTED TO DO THIS. >> EMMA THOMAS MET NOLAN FIRST 1257 00:35:30,363 --> 00:35:30,891 >> EMMA THOMAS MET NOLAN FIRST DAY OF COLLEGE. 1258 00:35:30,891 --> 00:35:33,858 DAY OF COLLEGE. SHE’S PRODUCED ALL OF HIS FILMS 1259 00:35:33,858 --> 00:35:35,198 SHE’S PRODUCED ALL OF HIS FILMS AND THEIR FOUR CHILDREN. 1260 00:35:35,198 --> 00:35:38,561 AND THEIR FOUR CHILDREN. THEY’VE BEEN MARRIED 26 YEARS. 1261 00:35:38,561 --> 00:35:41,561 THEY’VE BEEN MARRIED 26 YEARS. >> I CANNOT IMAGINE, CHRIS, IF 1262 00:35:41,561 --> 00:35:42,726 >> I CANNOT IMAGINE, CHRIS, IF HE WASN’T MAKING FILMS. 1263 00:35:42,726 --> 00:35:46,363 HE WASN’T MAKING FILMS. AND OUTSIDE OF, YOU KNOW, 1264 00:35:46,363 --> 00:35:48,528 AND OUTSIDE OF, YOU KNOW, FAMILY, WHICH IS PROBABLY THE 1265 00:35:48,528 --> 00:35:51,264 FAMILY, WHICH IS PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO HIM, 1266 00:35:51,264 --> 00:35:52,264 MOST IMPORTANT THING TO HIM, NO, GENUINELY THAT’S THE MOST 1267 00:35:52,264 --> 00:35:53,198 NO, GENUINELY THAT’S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO HIM. 1268 00:35:53,198 --> 00:35:54,297 IMPORTANT THING TO HIM. IT’S HORRIFYING TO ME HOW 1269 00:35:54,297 --> 00:35:55,429 IT’S HORRIFYING TO ME HOW FRUSTRATED HE WOULD BE IF HE 1270 00:35:55,429 --> 00:35:58,429 FRUSTRATED HE WOULD BE IF HE WASN’T ABLE TO TELL STORIES VIA 1271 00:35:58,429 --> 00:35:59,726 WASN’T ABLE TO TELL STORIES VIA THE MEDIUM OF FILM. 1272 00:35:59,726 --> 00:36:06,462 THE MEDIUM OF FILM. >> A MEDIUM HE PREFERS EXTRA 1273 00:36:06,462 --> 00:36:06,693 >> A MEDIUM HE PREFERS EXTRA LARGE. 1274 00:36:06,693 --> 00:36:10,462 LARGE. HE COLLAPSED AN ACTUAL BUILDING 1275 00:36:10,462 --> 00:36:12,198 HE COLLAPSED AN ACTUAL BUILDING IN "THE DARK KNIGHT." 1276 00:36:12,198 --> 00:36:13,363 IN "THE DARK KNIGHT." NOLAN USES COMPUTER ANIMATION, 1277 00:36:13,363 --> 00:36:20,132 NOLAN USES COMPUTER ANIMATION, BUT NOT IF THE AUTHENTIC IS 1278 00:36:20,132 --> 00:36:21,858 BUT NOT IF THE AUTHENTIC IS HUMANLY POSSIBLE. 1279 00:36:21,858 --> 00:36:24,264 HUMANLY POSSIBLE. IN THE FILM, "TENET," HE BOUGHT 1280 00:36:24,264 --> 00:36:32,594 IN THE FILM, "TENET," HE BOUGHT A 747 AND BUILT A HANGAR TO 1281 00:36:32,594 --> 00:36:33,000 A 747 AND BUILT A HANGAR TO CRASH IT INTO. 1282 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:39,165 CRASH IT INTO. IN 2024, HE BLEW UP THE ACADEMY 1283 00:36:39,165 --> 00:36:39,396 IN 2024, HE BLEW UP THE ACADEMY AWARDS. 1284 00:36:39,396 --> 00:36:40,825 AWARDS. "OPPENHEIMER" WON SEVEN OSCARS 1285 00:36:40,825 --> 00:36:41,429 "OPPENHEIMER" WON SEVEN OSCARS INCLUDING NOLAN’S FIRST FOR 1286 00:36:41,429 --> 00:36:45,165 INCLUDING NOLAN’S FIRST FOR BEST DIRECTOR AND BEST PICTURE. 1287 00:36:45,165 --> 00:36:47,297 BEST DIRECTOR AND BEST PICTURE. >> SEEMS TO ME YOU MAKE MOVIES 1288 00:36:47,297 --> 00:36:48,891 >> SEEMS TO ME YOU MAKE MOVIES THE HARD WAY, AND THE HARDER 1289 00:36:48,891 --> 00:36:50,825 THE HARD WAY, AND THE HARDER THE BETTER AS FAR AS YOU’RE 1290 00:36:50,825 --> 00:36:51,132 THE BETTER AS FAR AS YOU’RE CONCERNED? 1291 00:36:51,132 --> 00:36:52,066 CONCERNED? >> THE HARDER THE BETTER RIGHT 1292 00:36:52,066 --> 00:36:54,297 >> THE HARDER THE BETTER RIGHT TO THE POINT OF THE "ODYSSEY." 1293 00:36:54,297 --> 00:36:56,165 TO THE POINT OF THE "ODYSSEY." AND I THINK WE PUSHED PRETTY 1294 00:36:56,165 --> 00:37:00,660 AND I THINK WE PUSHED PRETTY HARD ON THIS ONE, AND MAYBE 1295 00:37:00,660 --> 00:37:02,528 HARD ON THIS ONE, AND MAYBE FOUND SOME LIMITS. 1296 00:37:02,528 --> 00:37:03,792 FOUND SOME LIMITS. >> LET’S GO! 1297 00:37:03,792 --> 00:37:05,264 >> LET’S GO! >> NOLAN’S ODYSSEY BROUGHT MATT 1298 00:37:05,264 --> 00:37:07,792 >> NOLAN’S ODYSSEY BROUGHT MATT DAMON AND THOUSANDS OF CAST AND 1299 00:37:07,792 --> 00:37:14,726 DAMON AND THOUSANDS OF CAST AND CREW TO GREECE, ICELAND, 1300 00:37:14,726 --> 00:37:15,594 CREW TO GREECE, ICELAND, MOROCCO, ITALY, AND SCOTLAND. 1301 00:37:15,594 --> 00:37:21,561 MOROCCO, ITALY, AND SCOTLAND. HE SHOT TWO MILLION FEET OF 1302 00:37:21,561 --> 00:37:28,033 HE SHOT TWO MILLION FEET OF IMAX FILM. 1303 00:37:34,858 --> 00:37:35,033 HA! 1304 00:37:35,033 --> 00:37:35,363 HA! UNBELIEVABLE! 1305 00:37:35,363 --> 00:37:36,660 UNBELIEVABLE! WHAT DO YOU THINK WHEN YOU SEE 1306 00:37:36,660 --> 00:37:36,858 WHAT DO YOU THINK WHEN YOU SEE THAT? 1307 00:37:36,858 --> 00:37:38,066 THAT? YOU’VE SEEN IT A HUNDRED TIMES? 1308 00:37:38,066 --> 00:37:40,363 YOU’VE SEEN IT A HUNDRED TIMES? >> I’VE SEEN IT A THOUSAND 1309 00:37:40,363 --> 00:37:40,594 >> I’VE SEEN IT A THOUSAND TIMES. 1310 00:37:40,594 --> 00:37:41,825 TIMES. I MEAN, I THINK IT’S A LOT OF 1311 00:37:41,825 --> 00:37:44,561 I MEAN, I THINK IT’S A LOT OF WORK BY A LOT OF PEOPLE. 1312 00:37:44,561 --> 00:37:46,693 WORK BY A LOT OF PEOPLE. >> I HAVE THE SENSE YOU DON’T 1313 00:37:46,693 --> 00:37:50,099 >> I HAVE THE SENSE YOU DON’T THINK OF YOURSELF AS THE MOST 1314 00:37:50,099 --> 00:37:51,165 THINK OF YOURSELF AS THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON ON THE SET? 1315 00:37:51,165 --> 00:37:53,363 IMPORTANT PERSON ON THE SET? >> I THINK OF MYSELF AS THE 1316 00:37:53,363 --> 00:37:54,594 >> I THINK OF MYSELF AS THE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE AUDIENCE 1317 00:37:54,594 --> 00:37:54,924 REPRESENTATIVE OF THE AUDIENCE ON SET. 1318 00:37:54,924 --> 00:37:55,396 ON SET. THAT’S MY NORTH STAR. 1319 00:37:55,396 --> 00:37:57,132 THAT’S MY NORTH STAR. THAT’S HOW I HAVE TO BE LOOKING 1320 00:37:57,132 --> 00:37:57,594 THAT’S HOW I HAVE TO BE LOOKING AT THE FILM. 1321 00:37:57,594 --> 00:37:59,297 AT THE FILM. SO IN A SENSE, I AM THE MOST 1322 00:37:59,297 --> 00:38:00,660 SO IN A SENSE, I AM THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON ON THE SET 1323 00:38:00,660 --> 00:38:01,495 IMPORTANT PERSON ON THE SET BECAUSE I’M THE AUDIENCE. 1324 00:38:01,495 --> 00:38:03,429 BECAUSE I’M THE AUDIENCE. >> IN TAKING ON "THE ODYSSEY," 1325 00:38:03,429 --> 00:38:04,825 >> IN TAKING ON "THE ODYSSEY," IT DOES BECOME ABOUT SCALE. 1326 00:38:04,825 --> 00:38:08,297 IT DOES BECOME ABOUT SCALE. IT NEEDED TO BE THE BIGGEST 1327 00:38:08,297 --> 00:38:09,693 IT NEEDED TO BE THE BIGGEST FILM THAT WE HAVE DONE. 1328 00:38:09,693 --> 00:38:10,891 FILM THAT WE HAVE DONE. IT NEEDED TO BE CHALLENGING TO 1329 00:38:10,891 --> 00:38:16,759 IT NEEDED TO BE CHALLENGING TO ALL OF US BECAUSE THAT’S THE 1330 00:38:16,759 --> 00:38:17,759 ALL OF US BECAUSE THAT’S THE NATURE OF THE STORY. 1331 00:38:17,759 --> 00:38:20,099 NATURE OF THE STORY. >> LOOKS LIKE YOU NEARLY 1332 00:38:20,099 --> 00:38:20,528 >> LOOKS LIKE YOU NEARLY DROWNED MATT DAMON. 1333 00:38:20,528 --> 00:38:21,495 DROWNED MATT DAMON. [ LAUGHTER ] 1334 00:38:21,495 --> 00:38:24,495 [ LAUGHTER ] >> WE CERTAINLY PUT HIM THROUGH 1335 00:38:24,495 --> 00:38:24,792 >> WE CERTAINLY PUT HIM THROUGH HIS PACES. 1336 00:38:24,792 --> 00:38:26,825 HIS PACES. >> I MEAN, IT WAS THE HARDEST 1337 00:38:26,825 --> 00:38:29,033 >> I MEAN, IT WAS THE HARDEST MOVIE I’VE EVER DONE BY FAR. 1338 00:38:29,033 --> 00:38:31,528 MOVIE I’VE EVER DONE BY FAR. I MEAN, NOT EVEN CLOSE. 1339 00:38:31,528 --> 00:38:36,759 I MEAN, NOT EVEN CLOSE. >> THIS IS DAMON’S THIRD NOLAN 1340 00:38:36,759 --> 00:38:37,396 >> THIS IS DAMON’S THIRD NOLAN FILM AFTER "INTERSTELLAR" AND 1341 00:38:37,396 --> 00:38:37,759 FILM AFTER "INTERSTELLAR" AND "OPPENHEIMER." 1342 00:38:37,759 --> 00:38:38,528 "OPPENHEIMER." >> THE FIRST MEETING I HAD WITH 1343 00:38:38,528 --> 00:38:41,660 >> THE FIRST MEETING I HAD WITH HIM AT THE END OF THE MEETING, 1344 00:38:41,660 --> 00:38:43,198 HIM AT THE END OF THE MEETING, HE SAID, "THIS MOVIE’S GOING TO 1345 00:38:43,198 --> 00:38:43,561 HE SAID, "THIS MOVIE’S GOING TO BE HARD." 1346 00:38:43,561 --> 00:38:44,957 BE HARD." I KIND OF LOOKED AT HIM. 1347 00:38:44,957 --> 00:38:46,924 I KIND OF LOOKED AT HIM. I DON’T KNOW, I’VE MADE 1348 00:38:46,924 --> 00:38:47,363 I DON’T KNOW, I’VE MADE HUNDREDS OF MOVIES. 1349 00:38:47,363 --> 00:38:48,330 HUNDREDS OF MOVIES. I SAID, YEAH, I KNOW. 1350 00:38:48,330 --> 00:38:50,825 I SAID, YEAH, I KNOW. AND HE LOOKED AT ME AND WENT, 1351 00:38:50,825 --> 00:38:52,495 AND HE LOOKED AT ME AND WENT, NO, THIS MOVIE’S GOING TO BE 1352 00:38:52,495 --> 00:38:52,825 NO, THIS MOVIE’S GOING TO BE REALLY HARD. 1353 00:38:52,825 --> 00:38:55,858 REALLY HARD. >> NOLAN OFTEN RETURNS TO HIS 1354 00:38:55,858 --> 00:38:57,198 >> NOLAN OFTEN RETURNS TO HIS STARS INCLUDING CILLIAN MURPHY 1355 00:38:57,198 --> 00:39:01,198 STARS INCLUDING CILLIAN MURPHY IN THE BATMAN FILMS, "DUNKIRK," 1356 00:39:01,198 --> 00:39:01,693 IN THE BATMAN FILMS, "DUNKIRK," AND "OPPENHEIMER." 1357 00:39:01,693 --> 00:39:03,726 AND "OPPENHEIMER." >> HE REALLY UNDERSTANDS WHAT 1358 00:39:03,726 --> 00:39:07,231 >> HE REALLY UNDERSTANDS WHAT ACTORS DO AND WHAT IS REQUIRED 1359 00:39:07,231 --> 00:39:09,000 ACTORS DO AND WHAT IS REQUIRED OF THEM TO DO IT. 1360 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:10,231 OF THEM TO DO IT. >> HE’S AN ACTOR’S DIRECTOR? 1361 00:39:10,231 --> 00:39:11,957 >> HE’S AN ACTOR’S DIRECTOR? >> AS FAR AS I’M CONCERNED, 1362 00:39:11,957 --> 00:39:12,165 >> AS FAR AS I’M CONCERNED, YEAH. 1363 00:39:12,165 --> 00:39:13,363 YEAH. PEOPLE MIGHT NOT THINK OF HIM 1364 00:39:13,363 --> 00:39:15,099 PEOPLE MIGHT NOT THINK OF HIM THAT WAY BECAUSE THE CANVAS HE 1365 00:39:15,099 --> 00:39:16,264 THAT WAY BECAUSE THE CANVAS HE PAINTS ON IS SO BIG. 1366 00:39:16,264 --> 00:39:18,693 PAINTS ON IS SO BIG. BUT LOOK AT THE PERFORMANCES IN 1367 00:39:18,693 --> 00:39:19,000 BUT LOOK AT THE PERFORMANCES IN HIS MOVIES. 1368 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:20,462 HIS MOVIES. >> PARTICULARLY THE CASE OF 1369 00:39:20,462 --> 00:39:21,792 >> PARTICULARLY THE CASE OF ACTORS, YOU’RE HANDING THEM A 1370 00:39:21,792 --> 00:39:23,165 ACTORS, YOU’RE HANDING THEM A SCRIPT AND YOU’RE SAYING, OKAY, 1371 00:39:23,165 --> 00:39:27,528 SCRIPT AND YOU’RE SAYING, OKAY, YOU GO AWAY AND YOU BECOME AN 1372 00:39:27,528 --> 00:39:29,495 YOU GO AWAY AND YOU BECOME AN EXPERT ON THE CHARACTER’S 1373 00:39:29,495 --> 00:39:30,132 EXPERT ON THE CHARACTER’S PERSPECTIVE ON THE STORY. 1374 00:39:30,132 --> 00:39:32,561 PERSPECTIVE ON THE STORY. SO THEN WHEN I’M ON SET, 1375 00:39:32,561 --> 00:39:34,528 SO THEN WHEN I’M ON SET, THEY’RE INFORMING ME, YOU KNOW. 1376 00:39:34,528 --> 00:39:35,330 THEY’RE INFORMING ME, YOU KNOW. THEY’RE BRINGING ME INFORMATION 1377 00:39:35,330 --> 00:39:36,924 THEY’RE BRINGING ME INFORMATION ABOUT HOW THAT CHARACTER WOULD 1378 00:39:36,924 --> 00:39:39,462 ABOUT HOW THAT CHARACTER WOULD SEE THINGS, HOW THAT CHARACTER 1379 00:39:39,462 --> 00:39:39,693 SEE THINGS, HOW THAT CHARACTER PLAYS. 1380 00:39:39,693 --> 00:39:41,297 PLAYS. SO IN A WAY, IT’S THE OPPOSITE 1381 00:39:41,297 --> 00:39:42,429 SO IN A WAY, IT’S THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT PEOPLE THINK IT IS. 1382 00:39:42,429 --> 00:39:44,561 OF WHAT PEOPLE THINK IT IS. >> I THINK WHAT SEPARATES HIM 1383 00:39:44,561 --> 00:39:45,792 >> I THINK WHAT SEPARATES HIM FROM OTHER DIRECTORS IS THE 1384 00:39:45,792 --> 00:39:49,231 FROM OTHER DIRECTORS IS THE STORIES HE WANTS TO TELL ARE 1385 00:39:49,231 --> 00:39:49,726 STORIES HE WANTS TO TELL ARE INCREDIBLY AMBITIOUS. 1386 00:39:49,726 --> 00:39:51,792 INCREDIBLY AMBITIOUS. AND THE WAY HE WANTS TO TELL 1387 00:39:51,792 --> 00:39:52,561 AND THE WAY HE WANTS TO TELL THEM IS INCREDIBLY AMBITIOUS. 1388 00:39:52,561 --> 00:39:55,033 THEM IS INCREDIBLY AMBITIOUS. IN THIS CASE, HE WANTED TO DO 1389 00:39:55,033 --> 00:39:57,660 IN THIS CASE, HE WANTED TO DO IT 100% IN IMAX, WHICH NEVER 1390 00:39:57,660 --> 00:39:57,957 IT 100% IN IMAX, WHICH NEVER BEEN DONE. 1391 00:39:57,957 --> 00:40:01,000 BEEN DONE. >> IMAX IS NOLAN’S GREAT 1392 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:01,264 >> IMAX IS NOLAN’S GREAT AMBITION. 1393 00:40:01,264 --> 00:40:03,066 AMBITION. >> IT’S REALLY A WONDERFUL WAY 1394 00:40:03,066 --> 00:40:05,033 >> IT’S REALLY A WONDERFUL WAY TO RETAIN THE ORIGINAL IMAGE. 1395 00:40:05,033 --> 00:40:06,726 TO RETAIN THE ORIGINAL IMAGE. >> "THE ODYSSEY" IS THE FIRST 1396 00:40:06,726 --> 00:40:09,462 >> "THE ODYSSEY" IS THE FIRST FEATURE SHOT COMPLETELY ON THE 1397 00:40:09,462 --> 00:40:10,132 FEATURE SHOT COMPLETELY ON THE GIANT FILM FORMAT. 1398 00:40:10,132 --> 00:40:13,627 GIANT FILM FORMAT. WHEN NOLAN WAS 16, HE SAW AN 1399 00:40:13,627 --> 00:40:15,759 WHEN NOLAN WAS 16, HE SAW AN IMAX DOCUMENTARY AT AMY SEEM, 1400 00:40:15,759 --> 00:40:18,825 IMAX DOCUMENTARY AT AMY SEEM, AND WAS SPELLBOUND BY THE 1401 00:40:18,825 --> 00:40:20,099 AND WAS SPELLBOUND BY THE FIVE-STORY SCREEN. 1402 00:40:20,099 --> 00:40:24,198 FIVE-STORY SCREEN. BUT IMAX IS EXPENSIVE AND 1403 00:40:24,198 --> 00:40:24,495 BUT IMAX IS EXPENSIVE AND CUMBERSOME. 1404 00:40:24,495 --> 00:40:26,000 CUMBERSOME. DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHY AND EDITING 1405 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:27,429 DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHY AND EDITING ARE FASTER AND CHEAPER, SO 1406 00:40:27,429 --> 00:40:31,264 ARE FASTER AND CHEAPER, SO ALMOST NO ONE DOES THIS 1407 00:40:31,264 --> 00:40:31,528 ALMOST NO ONE DOES THIS ANYMORE. 1408 00:40:31,528 --> 00:40:33,066 ANYMORE. LOOK AT THE SPLICING MACHINE. 1409 00:40:33,066 --> 00:40:36,924 LOOK AT THE SPLICING MACHINE. IT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS MADE IN 1410 00:40:36,924 --> 00:40:37,231 IT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS MADE IN THE 1940s. 1411 00:40:37,231 --> 00:40:37,792 THE 1940s. >> IT PROBABLY WAS. 1412 00:40:37,792 --> 00:40:39,792 >> IT PROBABLY WAS. >> WE WATCHED "THE ODYSSEY" 1413 00:40:39,792 --> 00:40:42,231 >> WE WATCHED "THE ODYSSEY" BEING CUT AND GLUED TOGETHER IN 1414 00:40:42,231 --> 00:40:46,264 BEING CUT AND GLUED TOGETHER IN THE LAST FILM LAB OF ITS KIND 1415 00:40:46,264 --> 00:40:46,891 THE LAST FILM LAB OF ITS KIND IN THE WORLD. 1416 00:40:46,891 --> 00:40:51,033 IN THE WORLD. WHY KEEP THIS ANCIENT ART 1417 00:40:51,033 --> 00:40:51,264 WHY KEEP THIS ANCIENT ART ALIVE? 1418 00:40:51,264 --> 00:40:52,165 ALIVE? WELL, THE 70 MILLIMETER IMAX 1419 00:40:52,165 --> 00:40:53,726 WELL, THE 70 MILLIMETER IMAX FRAME HAS RESOLUTION OR IMAGE 1420 00:40:53,726 --> 00:40:58,297 FRAME HAS RESOLUTION OR IMAGE QUALITY UP TO THREE TIMES 1421 00:40:58,297 --> 00:40:59,033 QUALITY UP TO THREE TIMES HIGHER THAN DIGITAL. 1422 00:40:59,033 --> 00:40:59,594 HIGHER THAN DIGITAL. ART THE HARD WAY. 1423 00:40:59,594 --> 00:41:04,132 ART THE HARD WAY. >> AND THERE IT IS. 1424 00:41:04,132 --> 00:41:04,462 >> AND THERE IT IS. >> OH, NICE. 1425 00:41:04,462 --> 00:41:07,528 >> OH, NICE. VERY CLEAN. 1426 00:41:07,528 --> 00:41:10,561 VERY CLEAN. HOLLYWOOD COULD SAY IMAX ISN’T 1427 00:41:10,561 --> 00:41:10,858 HOLLYWOOD COULD SAY IMAX ISN’T PRACTICAL. 1428 00:41:10,858 --> 00:41:11,495 PRACTICAL. SCREENPLAYS SHOULDN’T CHALLENGE 1429 00:41:11,495 --> 00:41:15,429 SCREENPLAYS SHOULDN’T CHALLENGE THE AUDIENCE, AND COMPUTERS ARE 1430 00:41:15,429 --> 00:41:16,792 THE AUDIENCE, AND COMPUTERS ARE CHEAPER THAN A 747. 1431 00:41:16,792 --> 00:41:20,066 CHEAPER THAN A 747. BUT THE PEOPLE WE CALL ARTISTS 1432 00:41:20,066 --> 00:41:22,330 BUT THE PEOPLE WE CALL ARTISTS ARE INSPIRED BY DREAMS LIKE A 1433 00:41:22,330 --> 00:41:28,495 ARE INSPIRED BY DREAMS LIKE A 7-YEAR-OLD WITH A SUPER 8. HOW 1434 00:41:28,495 --> 00:41:32,198 7-YEAR-OLD WITH A SUPER 8. HOW WOULD YOU LIKE HOLLYWOOD 1435 00:41:32,198 --> 00:41:36,066 WOULD YOU LIKE HOLLYWOOD HISTORIANS TO DESCRIBE YOUR 1436 00:41:36,066 --> 00:41:36,297 HISTORIANS TO DESCRIBE YOUR CAREER? 1437 00:41:36,297 --> 00:41:36,660 CAREER? [ LAUGHTER ] 1438 00:41:36,660 --> 00:41:37,231 [ LAUGHTER ] >> LONG. 1439 00:41:37,231 --> 00:41:39,264 >> LONG. [ LAUGHTER ] I’D LOVE TO FEEL 1440 00:41:39,264 --> 00:41:40,198 [ LAUGHTER ] I’D LOVE TO FEEL THAT I HAD 1441 00:41:40,198 --> 00:41:42,792 THAT I HAD ADDED SOMETHING TO THE BODY OF 1442 00:41:42,792 --> 00:41:45,924 ADDED SOMETHING TO THE BODY OF WORK OF ALL THE FILMMAKERS I 1443 00:41:45,924 --> 00:41:48,066 WORK OF ALL THE FILMMAKERS I HAVE ADMIRED AND THAT GREAT 1444 00:41:48,066 --> 00:41:48,858 HAVE ADMIRED AND THAT GREAT FILM HISTORY THAT’S DEVELOPING. 1445 00:41:48,858 --> 00:41:51,594 FILM HISTORY THAT’S DEVELOPING. IF I CAN PLAY SOME PART IN 1446 00:41:51,594 --> 00:41:52,924 IF I CAN PLAY SOME PART IN MOVING THE LANGUAGE A BIT 1447 00:41:52,924 --> 00:41:53,858 MOVING THE LANGUAGE A BIT FORWARD SOMEHOW, THAT WOULD BE 1448 00:41:53,858 --> 00:41:55,924 FORWARD SOMEHOW, THAT WOULD BE A GREAT THING TO BE REMEMBERED 1449 00:41:55,924 --> 00:41:56,132 A GREAT THING TO BE REMEMBERED FOR. 1450 00:41:56,132 --> 00:42:07,627 FOR. [ STOPWATCH TICKING ] 1451 00:42:07,627 --> 00:42:24,165 [ STOPWATCH TICKING ] >> I’M