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(\TICKING\)  THE NOVEMBER 3 ELECTION WAS THE MOST SECURE

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IN AMERICAN HISTORY. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT ANY VOTING

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SYSTEM DELETED OR LOST VOTES OR CHANGED VOTES OR WAS

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IN ANY WAY COMPROMISED.  YEAH, I STAND BY THAT.

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THE PRESIDENT TWEETED AFTER THAT STATEMENT, "THE RECENT STATEMENT

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BY CHRIS KREBS ON THE SECURITY OF THE 2020 ELECTION

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WAS HIGHLY INACCURATE." DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT THE PRESIDENT SAID

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AT THE END OF THAT TWEET?  OH, I WAS

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TERMINATED? YES. I RECALL THAT. (\TICKING\)  WE HAVE TO

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DO SOMETHING TO MAKE SURE THAT THE LEGACY OF THOSE

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PEOPLE IN THAT CARGO HOLD NEVER EVER IS FORGOTTEN.

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FOR 160 YEARS THIS MUDDY STRETCH OF THE MOBILE RIVER,

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HAS COVERED UP A CRIME. IN JULY, 1860, THE "CLOTILDA"

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WAS TOWED HERE, UNDER COVER OF DARKNESS. IMPRISONED IN ITS

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CRAMPED CARGO HOLD, 110 ENSLAVED AFRICANS.  SONAR IS ON.

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ZERO PRESSURE. GOOD TO DROP.  THAT'S IT RIGHT THERE?

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YES.  OH, YOU CAN SEE IT TOTALLY CLEARLY.

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I MEAN, THAT'S THE SHIP?  YES. (\TICKING\)  JAMES

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CORDEN PUT "THE LATE LATE SHOW" ON THE MAP AND

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MADE IT A MUST-SEE STOP ON YOUTUBE WHEN THE COMEDIAN/SONG

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AND DANCE MAN DECIDED TO TURN CARPOOLING INTO THIS. THIS

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IS LIKE A CULTURAL PHENOMENON.  YOU'RE MAKING ME FEEL

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INCREDIBLY BRITISH BY NOT BEING ABLE TO LOOK YOU IN

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THE EYE DURING A COMPLIMENT OR ANY KIND OF RECOGNITION

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OF SUCCESS. (\TICKING\)  I'M LESLEY STAHL.  I'M BILL

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WHITAKER.  I'M ANDERSON COOPER.  I'M NORAH O'DONNELL.

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I'M SCOTT PELLEY. THOSE STORIES, TONIGHT, ON "60 MINUTES." (\TICKING\)

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HAS BEGUN, PRESIDENT TRUMP REMAINS LARGELY HOLED UP IN THE

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WHITE HOUSE TWEETING FALSE ACCUSATIONS OF A RIGGED ELECTION FROM

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BEHIND A CRUMBLING WALL OF LAWSUITS. NO LEGAL CHALLENGE, NO

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RECOUNT, NO AUDIT HAS CHANGED THE OUTCOME IN ANY STATE.

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MR. TRUMP'S CLAIM THAT MILLIONS OF VOTES WERE DELETED OR

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SWITCHED IS DENIED BY THE OFFICIAL HE CHOSE TO SECURE

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THE NATION'S ELECTION SYSTEMS. CHRISTOPHER KREBS CALLED THE 2020 VOTE

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"THE MOST SECURE IN AMERICAN HISTORY" WHICH PROMPTLY GOT HIM

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FIRED. TONIGHT, IN HIS FIRST INTERVIEW SINCE HE WAS DISMISSED,

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KREBS TELLS US WHY HE BELIEVES THE VOTE WAS ACCURATE

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AND WHY SAYING OTHERWISE PUTS THE COUNTRY IN DANGER.

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Christopher Krebs: I HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THE SECURITY OF THIS

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ELECTION, BECAUSE I KNOW THE WORK THAT WE'VE DONE FOR

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FOUR YEARS IN SUPPORT OF OUR STATE AND LOCAL PARTNERS.

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I KNOW THE WORK THAT THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY HAS DONE,

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THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE HAS DONE, THAT THE FBI HAS

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DONE, THAT MY TEAM HAS DONE. I KNOW THAT THESE

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SYSTEMS ARE MORE SECURE. I KNOW BASED ON WHAT WE

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HAVE SEEN THAT ANY ATTACKS ON THE ELECTION WERE NOT

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SUCCESSFUL.  Pelley: TWO YEARS AGO, PRESIDENT TRUMP PUT CHRISTOPHER

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KREBS IN CHARGE OF THE NEW CYBERSECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY

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AGENCY. KREBS, A LIFELONG REPUBLICAN, WAS CONFIRMED UNANIMOUSLY BY THE

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SENATE. HIS AGENCY, KNOWN BY ITS ACRONYM, "CISA" HELPS SECURE

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COMPUTER SYSTEMS ANYWHERE THAT A SECURITY BREECH COULD BE CATASTROPHIC,

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NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS FOR EXAMPLE, AND THE ELECTION HARDWARE IN

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ALL 50 STATES. WHY ARE YOU SPEAKING TO US?

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Krebs: I'M NOT A PUBLIC SERVANT ANYMORE, BUT I FEEL

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I STILL GOT SOME PUBLIC SERVICE LEFT IN ME. AND,

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YOU KNOW, IT'S HARD ONCE YOU TAKE THAT OATH TO

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UPHOLD AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION FROM THREATS FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC,

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IT'S HARD TO WALK AWAY FROM THAT. AND IF I

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CAN REINFORCE OR CONFIRM FOR ONE PERSON THAT THE VOTE

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WAS SECURE, THE ELECTION WAS SECURE, THEN I FEEL LIKE

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I'VE DONE MY JOB.  Pelley: KREBS, WHO'S 43, WORKED

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ON CYBERSECURITY IN THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION, BECAME DIRECTOR OF CYBERSECURITY

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POLICY AT MICROSOFT AND JOINED THE TRUMP DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND

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SECURITY IN 2017. HIS PRIORITY WAS TO STOP ANYONE FROM

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REPEATING RUSSIA'S 2016 ELECTION HACKING AND DISINFORMATION.  Krebs: SO,

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WE SPENT SOMETHING ON THE ORDER OF THREE AND A

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HALF YEARS OF GAMING OUT EVERY POSSIBLE SCENARIO FOR HOW

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A FOREIGN ACTOR COULD INTERFERE WITH AN ELECTION. COUNTLESS, COUNTLESS

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SCENARIOS.  Pelley: SO, BACK IN 2017, AS YOU'RE LOOKING

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AHEAD TO THE ELECTION IN 2018 AND THEN ULTIMATELY THE

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ELECTION IN 2020, YOU HAVE A TO-DO LIST. AND THE

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TO-DO LIST INCLUDES WHAT?  Krebs: PAPER BALLOTS. PAPER BALLOTS

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GIVE YOU THE ABILITY TO AUDIT, TO GO BACK AND

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CHECK THE TAPE AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU GOT THE

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COUNT RIGHT. AND THAT'S REALLY ONE OF THE KEYS TO

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SUCCESS FOR A SECURE 2020 ELECTION. 95% OF THE BALLOTS

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CAST IN THE 2020 ELECTION HAD A PAPER RECORD ASSOCIATED

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WITH IT. COMPARED TO 2016, ABOUT 82%.  Pelley: AND

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WITH A PAPER RECORD, YOU CAN GO BACK AND VERIFY

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WHAT THE MACHINE IS SAYING BY PHYSICALLY COUNTING THE PAPER?

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Krebs: THAT GIVES YOU THE ABILITY TO PROVE THAT

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THERE WAS NO MALICIOUS ALGORITHM OR HACKED SOFTWARE THAT ADJUSTED

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THE TALLY OF THE VOTE. AND JUST LOOK AT WHAT

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HAPPENED IN GEORGIA. GEORGIA HAS MACHINES THAT TABULATE THE VOTE.

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THEY THEN HELD A HAND RECOUNT AND THE OUTCOME WAS

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CONSISTENT WITH THE MACHINE VOTE.  Pelley: AND THAT TELLS

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YOU WHAT?  Krebs: THAT TELLS YOU THAT THERE WAS

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NO MANIPULATION OF THE VOTE ON THE MACHINE COUNT SIDE.

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AND SO, THAT PRETTY THOROUGHLY, IN MY OPINION, DEBUNKS SOME

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OF THESE SENSATIONAL CLAIMS OUT THERE-- THAT I'VE CALLED NONSENSE

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AND A HOAX, THAT THERE IS SOME HACKING OF THESE

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ELECTION-- VENDORS AND THEIR SOFTWARE AND THEIR SYSTEMS ACROSS THE

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COUNTRY. IT'S-- IT'S JUST-- IT'S NONSENSE.  Pelley: BEFORE THE

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ELECTION, AS THE PRESIDENT CALLED MAIL-IN BALLOTS A FRAUD, KREBS'

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TEAM RELEASED A REPORT HIGHLIGHTING THE SAFEGUARDS BUILT INTO MAIL-

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IN VOTING. HIS AGENCY KNOCKED DOWN RUMORS AND EXPOSED AN

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IRANIAN PLOT TO INTIMIDATE VOTERS. ON ELECTION DAY, KREBS ASSEMBLED

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A TEAM IN HIS COMMAND CENTER TO DEFEND THE VOTE.

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Krebs: WE HAD THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE CYBER COMMAND.

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WE HAD THE NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY. WE HAD THE F.B.I.

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WE HAD THE SECRET SERVICE. WE ALSO HAD REPRESENTATIVES FROM

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THE ELECTION ASSISTANCE COMMISSION, WHICH IS THE FEDERAL INDEPENDENT AGENCY

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THAT SUPPORTS THE ACTUAL ADMINISTRATION OF ELECTIONS. WE HAD REPRESENTATIVES

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FROM SOME OF THE-- VENDORS, THE ELECTION EQUIPMENT VENDORS. AND

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THEY'RE CRITICAL BECAUSE THEY'RE THE ONES OUT THERE THAT KNOW

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WHAT'S GOING ON ON THE GROUND IF THERE'S ANY SORT

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OF ISSUE WITH SOME OF THEIR SYSTEMS. AND WE HAD

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REPRESENTATIVES FROM STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.  Pelley: HOW DID

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THE DAY GO?  Krebs: IT WAS QUIET. AND THERE

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WAS NO INDICATION OR EVIDENCE THAT THERE WAS ANY SORT

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OF HACKING OR COMPROMISE OF ELECTION SYSTEMS ON, BEFORE OR

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AFTER NOVEMBER 3.  Stephen: AND YET, THIS WAS THE

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PRESIDENT NOVEMBER 5.  President Trump: AND THIS IS A

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CASE WHERE THEY'RE TRYING TO STEAL AN ELECTION, THEY'RE TRYING

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TO RIG AN ELECTION.  Pelley: NINE DAYS AFTER ELECTION

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DAY, MR. TRUMP TWEETED FALSELY THAT MACHINES FROM DOMINION VOTING

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SYSTEMS DELETED MILLIONS OF VOTES. KREBS COULDN'T REMAIN SILENT. HIS

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AGENCY AND ITS ELECTION SECURITY PARTNERS ANSWERED WITH A PUBLIC

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STATEMENT. TO QUOTE FROM THE NOVEMBER 12 STATEMENT THAT CISA

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AND ITS PARTNERS PUT OUT, "THE NOVEMBER 3 ELECTION WAS

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THE MOST SECURE IN AMERICAN HISTORY. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE

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THAT ANY VOTING SYSTEM DELETED OR LOST VOTES OR CHANGED

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VOTES OR WAS IN ANY WAY COMPROMISED."  Krebs: YEAH,

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I STAND BY THAT.  Pelley: THE PRESIDENT TWEETED AFTER

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THAT STATEMENT, "THE RECENT STATEMENT BY CHRIS KREBS ON THE

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SECURITY OF THE 2020 ELECTION WAS HIGHLY INACCURATE, IN THAT

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THERE WERE MASSIVE IMPROPRIETIES AND FRAUD." DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT

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THE PRESIDENT SAID AT THE END OF THAT TWEET?

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Krebs: OH, I WAS TERMINATED? IS THAT-- YES. I RECALL

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THAT.  Pelley: WERE YOU SURPRISED?  Krebs: I DON'T

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KNOW IF I WAS NECESSARILY SURPRISED. IT'S NOT HOW I

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WANTED TO GO OUT. I THINK I-- THE THING THAT

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UPSETS ME THE MOST ABOUT THAT IS I DIDN'T GET

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A S-- CHANCE-- TO SAY GOODBYE TO MY TEAM. AND

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I'D WORKED WITH THEM FOR THREE AND A HALF YEARS,

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IN THE TRENCHES. BUILDING AN AGENCY, PUTTING CISA ON THE

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NATIONAL STAGE. AND I LOVE THAT TEAM. AND I DIDN'T

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GET A CHANCE TO SAY GOODBYE, SO THAT'S WHAT I'M

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MOST UPSET ABOUT.  Pelley: SINCE HE WAS FIRED, ABOUT

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A DOZEN REPUBLICAN SENATORS HAVE VOUCHED FOR KREBS' WORK. THE

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PRESIDENT'S ESSENTIALLY SAYING IN THAT TWEET THAT YOU DID A

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LOUSY JOB, THAT YOU AND YOUR TEAM BLEW IT, AND

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ALLOWED MASSIVE FRAUD, ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.  Krebs: WE

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DID A GOOD JOB. WE DID IT RIGHT. I'D DO

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IT A THOUSAND TIMES OVER.  Pelley: STILL, THE PRESIDENT'S

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LAWYERS HAVE FILED AT LEAST A DOZEN SUITS AND SPUN

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CONJECTURE WITHOUT EVIDENCE.  Rudy Giuliani: AND YOU SHOULD BE

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MORE ASTOUNDED BY THE FACT THAT OUR VOTES ARE COUNTED

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IN GERMANY AND IN SPAIN.  Pelley: AS YOU WATCHED

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RUDY GIULIANI'S NEWS CONFERENCE AT THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE HEADQUARTERS,

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WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?  Krebs: IT WAS UPSETTING, BECAUSE

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WHAT I SAW WAS A APPARENT ATTEMPT TO UNDERMINE CONFIDENCE

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IN THE ELECTION, TO CONFUSE PEOPLE, TO SCARE PEOPLE. IT'S

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NOT ME, IT'S NOT JUST CISA. IT'S THE TENS OF

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THOUSANDS OF ELECTION WORKERS OUT THERE THAT HAD BEEN WORKING

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NONSTOP, 18- HOUR DAYS, FOR MONTHS. THEY'RE GETTING DEATH THREATS

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FOR TRYING TO CARRY OUT ONE OF OUR CORE DEMOCRATIC

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AN ELECTION. AND THAT WAS, AGAIN, TO ME, A PRESS

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CONFERENCE THAT I JUST-- IT DIDN'T MAKE SENSE. WHAT IT

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WAS ACTIVELY DOING WAS UNDERMINING DEMOCRACY. AND THAT'S DANGEROUS.

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Pelley: LET ME ASK FOR YOUR REACTION TO SOME OF

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THE VOTE FRAUD THAT THE PRESIDENT AND HIS TEAM HAVE

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BEEN ALLEGING. VOTES TABULATED IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES.  Krebs: SO,

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ALL VOTES IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ARE COUNTED

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IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. I DON'T-- I DON'T

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UNDERSTAND THIS CLAIM. ALL VOTES IN THE UNITED STATES OF

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AMERICA ARE COUNTED IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. PERIOD.

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Pelley: VOTING MACHINES CORRUPTED BY MYSTERIOUS ACTORS IN VENEZUELA.

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Krebs: SO, AGAIN, THERE'S NO EVIDENCE THAT ANY MACHINE

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THAT I'M AWARE OF HAS BEEN MANIPULATED BY A FOREIGN

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POWER. PERIOD.  Pelley: COMMUNIST MONEY FROM CHINA AND CUBA

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USED TO INFLUENCE THE ELECTION.  Krebs: LOOK, I THINK

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THESE-- WE CAN GO ON AND ON WITH ALL THE

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FARCICAL CLAIMS THAT-- ALLEGING- - INTERFERENCE IN THE 2020 ELECTION,

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BUT THE PROOF IS IN THE BALLOTS. THE RECOUNTS ARE

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CONSISTENT WITH THE INITIAL COUNT, AND TO ME, THAT'S FURTHER

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EVIDENCE, THAT'S CONFIRMATION THAT THE SYSTEMS USED IN THE 2020

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ELECTION PERFORMED AS EXPECTED, AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE

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100% CONFIDENCE IN THEIR VOTE.  Pelley: IN A NEWS

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CONFERENCE, A LAWYER WHO WAS REPRESENTING THE PRESIDENT AT THE

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TIME, SIDNEY POWELL, SAID SPECIFICALLY THAT THE DOMINION COMPANY'S VOTING

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MACHINES, QUOTE:  Sidney Powell: IT CAN SET AND RUN

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AN ALGORITHM THAT PROBABLY RAN ALL OVER THE COUNTRY TO

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TAKE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF VOTES FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP AND

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FLIP THEM TO PRESIDENT BIDEN.  Krebs: VOTES WERE CAST

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IN GEORGIA, FOR INSTANCE, AGAIN, ON PAPER. THEY WERE COUNTED

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BY A MACHINE. THEY WERE SUBSEQUENTLY RECOUNTED BY HAND. THE

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OUTCOMES OF THAT COUNT WERE CONSISTENT. IF THERE WAS AN

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ALGORITHM THAT WAS FLIPPING VOTES OR CHANGING VOTES, IT DIDN'T

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WORK. I THINK THE MORE LIKELY EXPLANATION, THOUGH, IS THAT

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THERE IS NO ALGORITHM, THAT THE SYSTEMS PERFORMED AS INTENDED,

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THAT THE SERIES OF SECURITY CONTROLS BEFORE, DURING, AND AFTER

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AN ELECTION PROTECTED THOSE SYSTEMS FROM ANY SORT OF MISBEHAVIOR.

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Pelley: MOST ELECTIONS ARE RUN BY EACH STATE'S SECRETARY

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OF STATE, BUT NOT ONE OF THEM, DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN,

196
00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:43,560
HAS REPORTED BALLOT RIGGING THAT WOULD CHANGE THE ELECTION. SOME

197
00:13:43,900 --> 00:13:47,400
ARE PAYING A PRICE FOR INTEGRITY.  Krebs: AND IT'S,

198
00:13:48,650 --> 00:13:52,340
IN MY VIEW, A TRAVESTY, WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW WITH

199
00:13:52,490 --> 00:13:55,800
ALL THESE DEATH THREATS TO ELECTION OFFICIALS, TO SECRETARIES OF

200
00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,940
STATE. I WANT EVERYBODY TO LOOK AT SECRETARY BOOCKVAR IN

201
00:13:59,250 --> 00:14:04,290
PENNSYLVANIA, SECRETARY BENSON IN MICHIGAN, SECRETARY CEGAVSKE IN NEVADA, SECRETARY

202
00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:10,160
HOBBS IN ARIZONA. ALL STRONG WOMEN THAT ARE STANDING UP,

203
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,600
THAT ARE UNDER ATTACK FROM ALL SIDES, AND THEY'RE DEFENDING

204
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,600
DEMOCRACY. THEY'RE DOING THEIR JOBS. LOOK AT-- LOOK AT SECRETARY

205
00:14:17,910 --> 00:14:21,990
RAFFENSPERGER IN GEORGIA, LIFELONG REPUBLICAN. HE PUT COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY

206
00:14:23,110 --> 00:14:25,800
IN HIS HOLDING A FREE AND FAIR ELECTION IN THAT

207
00:14:25,980 --> 00:14:28,470
STATE. THERE ARE SOME REAL HEROES OUT THERE. THERE ARE

208
00:14:28,510 --> 00:14:31,810
SOME REAL PATRIOTS.  Pelley: AT THE CAPITOL, THE STAGE

209
00:14:31,980 --> 00:14:36,640
IS GOING UP FOR INAUGURATION DAY, JANUARY 20. WELL BEFORE

210
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:41,330
THAT, ON DECEMBER 14, THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTORS WILL CAST THEIR

211
00:14:41,540 --> 00:14:46,110
BALLOTS-- WHICH SHOULD SETTLE THE ELECTION. CHRISTOPHER KREBS TOLD US

212
00:14:46,300 --> 00:14:49,930
IT'S IRONIC THAT THE DISRUPTION AND DISINFORMATION HE FEARED FROM

213
00:14:50,130 --> 00:14:56,740
ABROAD CAME, INSTEAD, FROM PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE. THE PRESIDENT SAYS YOU'RE

214
00:14:56,970 --> 00:15:01,600
DEAD WRONG ABOUT ELECTION SECURITY, AND TO HIM YOU SAY

215
00:15:01,700 --> 00:15:04,490
WHAT?  Krebs: THERE IS NO FOREIGN POWER THAT IS

216
00:15:04,630 --> 00:15:10,500
FLIPPING VOTES. THERE'S NO DOMESTIC ACTOR FLIPPING VOTES. I DID

217
00:15:10,270 --> 00:15:13,520
IT RIGHT. WE DID IT RIGHT. THIS WAS A SECURE

218
00:15:13,890 --> 00:15:25,230
ELECTION. (\TICKING\)  Cooper: TWO YEARS AGO, A SUNKEN SHIP

219
00:15:25,570 --> 00:15:27,720
WAS FOUND IN THE BOTTOM OF AN ALABAMA RIVER. IT

220
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,520
TURNED OUT TO BE THE LONG LOST WRECK OF THE

221
00:15:30,850 --> 00:15:33,580
"CLOTILDA," THE LAST SLAVE SHIP KNOWN TO HAVE BROUGHT CAPTURED

222
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:38,590
AFRICANS TO AMERICA IN 1860. AT LEAST 12 MILLION AFRICANS

223
00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:40,910
WERE SHIPPED TO THE AMERICAS IN THE MORE THAN 350

224
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,410
YEARS OF THE TRANS-ATLANTIC SLAVE TRADE, BUT AS YOU'LL HEAR

225
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TONIGHT, THE JOURNEY OF THE 110 CAPTIVE MEN, WOMEN, AND

226
00:15:49,460 --> 00:15:52,540
CHILDREN BROUGHT TO ALABAMA ON THE "CLOTILDA," IS ONE OF

227
00:15:52,620 --> 00:15:56,980
THE BEST DOCUMENTED SLAVE VOYAGES IN HISTORY. THE NAMES OF

228
00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:00,340
THOSE ENSLAVED AFRICANS, AND THEIR STORY, HAS BEEN PASSED DOWN

229
00:16:00,620 --> 00:16:03,980
THROUGH THE GENERATIONS BY THEIR DESCENDANTS, SOME OF WHOM STILL

230
00:16:04,270 --> 00:16:06,610
LIVE JUST A FEW MILES FROM WHERE THE SHIP WAS

231
00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:14,460
FOUND, IN A COMMUNITY CALLED AFRICATOWN. FOR 160 YEARS THIS

232
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,420
MUDDY STRETCH OF THE MOBILE RIVER, HAS COVERED UP A

233
00:16:17,510 --> 00:16:21,810
CRIME. IN JULY, 1860, THE "CLOTILDA" WAS TOWED HERE, UNDER

234
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,230
COVER OF DARKNESS. IMPRISONED IN ITS CRAMPED CARGO HOLD, 110

235
00:16:27,110 --> 00:16:30,450
ENSLAVED AFRICANS.  Joycelyn Davis: I JUST IMAGINED MYSELF BEING

236
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:32,760
ON THAT SHIP, JUST LISTENING TO THE WAVES AND THE

237
00:16:32,860 --> 00:16:35,340
WATER, AND JUST NOT KNOWING WHERE YOU WERE GOING.

238
00:16:35,340 --> 00:16:38,680
Cooper: JOYCEYLN DAVIS, LORNA GAIL WOODS, AND THOMAS GRIFFIN ARE

239
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:43,570
DIRECT DESCENDANTS OF THIS AFRICAN MAN, OLUALE. ENSLAVED IN ALABAMA,

240
00:16:44,340 --> 00:16:47,230
HIS OWNER CHANGED HIS NAME TO CHARLIE LEWIS. THIS IMAGE

241
00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:51,830
IS FROM AROUND 1900. POLLEE ALLEN, WHOSE AFRICAN NAME WAS

242
00:16:52,100 --> 00:16:55,160
KUPOLLEE, SEEN IN THIS HUNDRED YEAR OLD SKETCH, WAS THE

243
00:16:55,330 --> 00:16:57,540
ANCESTOR OF JEREMY ELLIS AND DARRON PATTERSON.  Darron Patterson:

244
00:16:58,260 --> 00:17:03,890
NO CLOTHES. EATING WHERE THEY DEFECATED. ONLY ALLOWED OUTTA THE

245
00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,710
CARGO HOLD FOR ONE DAY A WEEK FOR TWO MONTHS.

246
00:17:07,420 --> 00:17:09,350
HOW MANY PEOPLE DO YOU, DO WE KNOW NOW THAT

247
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,450
COULD'VE SURVIVED SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WITHOUT LOSING THEIR MIND?

248
00:17:12,450 --> 00:17:15,310
Cooper: THERE ARE NO PHOTOGRAPHS OF PAT FRAZIER'S GREAT-GREAT GRANDMOTHER,

249
00:17:16,300 --> 00:17:20,190
LOTTIE DENNISON, BUT CAPRINXIA WALLACE AND HER MOTHER CASSANDRA HAVE

250
00:17:20,290 --> 00:17:24,290
A SURPRISING NUMBER OF PICTURES OF THEIR ANCESTOR, KOSSULA, WHO'S

251
00:17:24,530 --> 00:17:27,710
OWNER CALLED HIM CUDJO LEWIS. WHAT DOES IT FEEL LIKE

252
00:17:28,250 --> 00:17:31,650
TO BE ABLE TO KNOW WHERE YOU COME FROM, TO

253
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,100
KNOW THE PERSON WHO CAME HERE FIRST?  Caprinxia Wallace:

254
00:17:35,130 --> 00:17:38,890
IT'S EMPOWERING, VERY. LIKE, GROWING UP, MY MOM MADE SURE

255
00:17:39,100 --> 00:17:41,320
SHE TOLD ME ALL THE STORIES THAT HER DAD TOLD

256
00:17:41,620 --> 00:17:44,130
HER ABOUT CUDJO.  Cooper: CASSANDRA, THAT WAS IMPORTANT TO

257
00:17:44,270 --> 00:17:46,640
YOU TO PASS THAT KNOWLEDGE ALONG?  Cassandra: VERY IMPORTANT,

258
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,700
YES. MY DAD SAT US DOWN AND HE WOULD MAKE

259
00:17:51,540 --> 00:17:55,890
US REPEAT "KOSSULU, 'CLOTILDA,' CUDJO LEWIS."  Griffin: IT HAS

260
00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:01,140
HISTORICAL IMPORTANCE, AS WELL AS A STORY THAT NEEDS TO

261
00:18:01,220 --> 00:18:03,810
BE TOLD.  Cooper: THE STORY OF THE "CLOTILDA" BEGAN

262
00:18:04,190 --> 00:18:08,100
IN 1860, WHEN TIMOTHY MEAHER, A WEALTHY BUSINESSMAN, HIRED CAPTAIN

263
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,180
WILLIAM FOSTER TO ILLEGALLY SMUGGLE A SHIPLOAD OF CAPTIVE AFRICANS

264
00:18:13,900 --> 00:18:16,700
FROM THE KINGDOM OF DAHOMEY, IN WEST AFRICA, TO MOBILE,

265
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,660
ALABAMA. SLAVERY WAS STILL LEGAL IN THE SOUTHERN UNITED STATES,

266
00:18:21,410 --> 00:18:24,740
BUT IMPORTING NEW SLAVES INTO AMERICA HAD BEEN OUTLAWED IN

267
00:18:25,310 --> 00:18:29,420
1808. IN HIS JOURNAL, CAPTAIN FOSTER, DESCRIBED PURCHASING THE CAPTIVES

268
00:18:30,110 --> 00:18:34,740
USING "$9,000 IN GOLD AND MERCHANDISE." AS THIS REPLICA SHOWS,

269
00:18:35,290 --> 00:18:38,800
THE ENSLAVED AFRICANS WERE LOCKED, NAKED, IN THE CARGO HOLD

270
00:18:38,330 --> 00:18:41,310
OF THE "CLOTILDA" FOR TWO SICKENING MONTHS. WHEN THEY ARRIVED

271
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,670
IN MOBILE, THEY WERE HANDED OVER TO TIMOTHY MEAHER AND

272
00:18:44,830 --> 00:18:48,310
SEVERAL OTHERS. CAPTAIN FOSTER CLAIMED HE THEN BURNED AND SANK

273
00:18:48,700 --> 00:18:53,170
THE CLOTILDA, BUT EXACTLY WHERE REMAINED A MYSTERY-- UNTIL 2018,

274
00:18:54,780 --> 00:18:58,410
WHEN A LOCAL REPORTER, BEN RAINES, FOUND THE "CLOTILDA" IN

275
00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,800
ABOUT 20 FEET OF WATER NOT FAR FROM MOBILE. HE'D

276
00:19:02,230 --> 00:19:05,610
BEEN SEARCHING FOR SEVEN MONTHS, FOLLOWING CLUES IN CAPTAIN FOSTER'S

277
00:19:06,900 --> 00:19:10,270
JOURNAL. THE EXACT LOCATION HASN'T BEEN MADE PUBLIC FOR FEAR

278
00:19:10,540 --> 00:19:13,930
SOMEONE MIGHT VANDALIZE THE SHIP, BUT LAST FEBRUARY THE ALABAMA

279
00:19:14,410 --> 00:19:18,730
HISTORICAL COMMISSION GAVE MARITIME ARCHEOLOGIST JAMES DELGADO, WHO HELPED VERIFY

280
00:19:18,890 --> 00:19:22,890
THE WRECK, PERMISSION TO TAKE US THERE. SO, THE "CLOTILDA"

281
00:19:22,990 --> 00:19:25,400
CAME UP THIS WAY?  James Delgado: STRAIGHT UP HERE,

282
00:19:26,220 --> 00:19:28,360
PRACTICALLY IN A STRAIGHT LINE AFTER THEY DROPPED OFF THE

283
00:19:28,450 --> 00:19:31,710
PEOPLE, AND THEN ON ONE SIDE OF THE BANK, SET

284
00:19:31,830 --> 00:19:33,120
HER ON FIRE AND SANK HER.  Cooper: SO, HE

285
00:19:33,210 --> 00:19:34,760
WAS TRYING TO DESTROY EVIDENCE OF A CRIME?  Delgado:

286
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,500
YES.  Cooper: THE BOW OF THE "CLOTILDA" IS NOT

287
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,490
FAR FROM THE SURFACE, BUT THE WATER'S SO MUDDY, THE

288
00:19:41,730 --> 00:19:43,860
ONLY WAY TO SEE IT IS WITH THIS SONAR DEVICE.

289
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,730
SONAR IS ON. ZERO PRESSURE. GOOD TO DROP.

290
00:19:47,730 --> 00:19:51,540
Cooper: SO, WE'RE ALMOST OVER IT NOW?  Delgado: YEAH,

291
00:19:51,910 --> 00:19:54,230
WE'RE COMING RIGHT UP ON IT.  SO, THAT'S THE

292
00:19:54,660 --> 00:19:55,920
BOW RIGHT THERE?  Cooper: THAT'S IT RIGHT THERE?

293
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,270
Delgado: YES.  Cooper: OH, YOU CAN SEE IT LIKE

294
00:19:58,420 --> 00:19:59,640
THAT?  Delgado: YEAH.  Cooper: YOU CAN SEE IT

295
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,300
TOTALLY CLEARLY. I MEAN, THAT'S THE SHIP?  Delgado: YES.

296
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,290
YEAH, THAT'S "CLOTILDA."  Cooper: ON SONAR THE BOW IS

297
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,530
CLEARLY DEFINED, AS ARE BOTH SIDES OF THE HULL. THE

298
00:20:08,620 --> 00:20:11,370
SHIP IS 86 FEET LONG, BUT THE BACK OF IT,

299
00:20:11,590 --> 00:20:14,710
THE STERN, IS BURIED DEEP IN MUD. THOSE TWO HORIZONTAL

300
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,150
LINES ARE LIKELY THE WALLS OF THE CARGO HOLD WHERE

301
00:20:18,230 --> 00:20:21,250
THE ENSLAVED AFRICANS HAD BEEN PACKED TIGHTLY TOGETHER ON THE

302
00:20:21,340 --> 00:20:24,740
VOYAGE FROM WEST AFRICA. SO, THE HOLD WHERE PEOPLE WERE

303
00:20:24,930 --> 00:20:27,760
HELD, HOW BIG WAS THAT?  Delgado: IN TERMS OF

304
00:20:27,820 --> 00:20:31,820
WHERE PEOPLE COULD ACTUALLY FIT, FIVE FEET BY ABOUT 20

305
00:20:32,190 --> 00:20:33,940
FEET.  Cooper: WAIT A MINUTE. IT WAS ONLY FIVE

306
00:20:34,310 --> 00:20:36,760
FEET HIGH? SO PEOPLE COULD BARELY STAND UP IN THIS

307
00:20:36,850 --> 00:20:38,830
HOLD?  Delgado: YES.  Cooper: DIVING ON THE WRECK

308
00:20:39,300 --> 00:20:42,770
IS DIFFICULT. UNDERWATER THERE IS ZERO VISIBILITY. YOU CAN'T EVEN

309
00:20:43,700 --> 00:20:46,230
SEE THE SHIP. DELGADO'S TEAM HAS ONLY FELT IT WITH

310
00:20:46,390 --> 00:20:51,330
THEIR HANDS. THEY CALL IT "ARCHEOLOGY BY BRAILLE." THIS IS

311
00:20:51,460 --> 00:20:55,900
THE ONLY IMAGE OUR A PLANK OF WOOD COVERED WITH

312
00:20:55,230 --> 00:21:00,290
WHAT LOOKS LIKE BARNACLES. DELGADO, AND STATE ARCHEOLOGIST STACYE HATHORN,

313
00:21:00,630 --> 00:21:03,380
SHOWED US SOME OF THE ARTIFACTS THEY RETRIEVED. THIS PLANK

314
00:21:03,660 --> 00:21:05,290
OF WOOD IS LIKELY FROM THE HULL OF THE SHIP.

315
00:21:05,500 --> 00:21:09,200
AND THIS IRON BOLT, WITH WOOD ATTACHED, SHOWS EVIDENCE OF

316
00:21:09,350 --> 00:21:11,520
FIRE DAMAGE.  Stacye Hathorn: YOU DON'T SEE THE GRAIN

317
00:21:11,780 --> 00:21:13,860
OF THE WOOD.  Delgado: IT BASICALLY MAKES A BRIQUETTE.

318
00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:16,580
Cooper: SO, THIS IS EVIDENCE CLEARLY OF, THAT THEY

319
00:21:16,700 --> 00:21:17,930
TRIED TO BURN THE SHIP?  Hathorn: YES.  Delgado:

320
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,800
YES.  Cooper: THE ENSLAVED AFRICANS WERE TAKEN OFF THE

321
00:21:20,870 --> 00:21:23,810
SHIP BEFORE IT SANK, BUT DELGADO SAYS THERE COULD STILL

322
00:21:24,150 --> 00:21:25,920
BE D.N.A. FROM SOME OF THEM IN THE WRECK.

323
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,900
Delgado: YOU WILL FIND HUMAN HAIR. YOU CAN FIND NAIL

324
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:30,320
CLIPPINGS. SOMEBODY MAY HAVE LOST A TOOTH.  Cooper: YOU

325
00:21:30,410 --> 00:21:33,120
COULD STILL FIND HUMAN HAIR IN THE WRECK OF THE

326
00:21:33,190 --> 00:21:35,770
"CLOTILDA?"  Delgado: YES.  Cooper: THE STATE OF ALABAMA

327
00:21:36,350 --> 00:21:39,590
HAS SET ASIDE A MILLION DOLLARS FOR FURTHER EXCAVATION TO

328
00:21:39,710 --> 00:21:42,280
DETERMINE IF THE "CLOTILDA" CAN EVER BE RAISED FROM THE

329
00:21:42,340 --> 00:21:45,340
RIVERBED. THE SHIP MAY BE TOO DAMAGED OR THE EFFORT

330
00:21:45,750 --> 00:21:48,520
TOO EXPENSIVE.  Mary Elliott: I THINK WHAT'S EXTREMELY IMPORTANT

331
00:21:48,910 --> 00:21:51,640
FOR FOLKS TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT, THAT THERE WAS A

332
00:21:51,700 --> 00:21:55,340
CONCERTED EFFORT TO HIDE THESE THINGS THAT WERE DONE.

333
00:21:55,340 --> 00:21:59,130
Cooper: MARY ELLIOTT OVERSEES THE COLLECTION OF SLAVERY ARTIFACTS AT

334
00:21:59,230 --> 00:22:02,200
THE SMITHSONIAN'S NATIONAL MUSEUM OF AFRICAN AMERICAN HISTORY AND CULTURE

335
00:22:02,810 --> 00:22:05,720
IN WASHINGTON, D.C.  Elliott: IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE FOUND

336
00:22:06,530 --> 00:22:10,290
THE REMNANTS OF THIS SHIP, BECAUSE IT, FOR AFRICAN AMERICANS,

337
00:22:11,110 --> 00:22:14,850
IT'S THEIR PIECE OF THE TRUE CROSS, THEIR TOUCHSTONE TO

338
00:22:14,970 --> 00:22:17,760
SAY, "WE'VE BEEN TELLING YOU FOR YEARS. AND HERE'S THE

339
00:22:17,860 --> 00:22:21,930
PROOF."  Cooper: REMARKABLY, MANY OF THE DESCENDANTS STILL LIVE

340
00:22:22,270 --> 00:22:24,570
JUST A FEW MILES FROM WHERE THE "CLOTILDA" WAS DISCOVERED.

341
00:22:25,620 --> 00:22:30,900
THIS IS AFRICATOWN. FOUNDED AROUND 1868, THREE YEARS AFTER EMANCIPATION,

342
00:22:31,910 --> 00:22:36,910
BY 30 OF THE AFRICANS BROUGHT ON THE "CLOTILDA." JOYCELYN

343
00:22:37,370 --> 00:22:41,290
DAVIS HAS ORGANIZED FESTIVALS TO HONOR AFRICATOWN'S FOUNDERS, ONE OF

344
00:22:41,410 --> 00:22:46,510
WHOM WAS HER GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GRANDFATHER, CHARLIE LEWIS. LAST FEBRUARY SHE TOOK

345
00:22:46,750 --> 00:22:49,220
US TO THE STREET HE LIVED ON, CALLED LEWIS QUARTERS.

346
00:22:50,220 --> 00:22:53,930
SO, PRETTY MUCH EVERYONE ON THIS STREET CAN TRACE THEIR

347
00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:54,570
LINEAGE BACK TO CHARLIE LEWIS--  Davis: YES. EVERYONE HERE

348
00:22:54,580 --> 00:22:57,230
IS RELATED.  Cooper: WOW.  Davis: YEAH.  Cooper:

349
00:22:57,930 --> 00:23:00,120
LEWIS AND SOME OF THE OTHERS GOT JOBS AT A

350
00:23:00,210 --> 00:23:04,350
NEARBY SAWMILL, OWNED BY TIMOTHY MEAHER, THE SAME MAN RESPONSIBLE

351
00:23:05,100 --> 00:23:07,200
FOR ENSLAVING THEM.  Davis: I MEAN, THEY WORKED FOR,

352
00:23:07,270 --> 00:23:09,300
LIKE, A DOLLAR A DAY. AND SO, THEY SAVED UP

353
00:23:09,390 --> 00:23:12,560
THEIR MONEY TO BUY LAND.  Cooper: CUDJO LEWIS ALSO

354
00:23:12,900 --> 00:23:15,860
WORKED AT THE MEAHER'S SAWMILL. THIS RARE FILM SHOWS HIM

355
00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:19,280
IN 1928. BY THEN HE WAS IN HIS 80'S AND

356
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,110
ONE OF THE "CLOTILDA'S" LAST LIVING SURVIVORS. HE HELPED FOUND

357
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,260
THIS CHURCH IN AFRICATOWN, THE SAME CHURCH HIS DESCENDANTS STILL

358
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:33,430
ATTEND TODAY. § § § § § § AFTER EMANCIPATION

359
00:23:34,250 --> 00:23:37,540
IT SEEMED SO UNLIKELY THAT A GROUP OF FREED SLAVES

360
00:23:38,450 --> 00:23:42,120
COULD POOL THEIR RESOURCES AND BUILD A COMMUNITY. I MEAN,

361
00:23:42,230 --> 00:23:45,100
THAT'S AN EXTRAORDINARY THING.  Elliott: THERE'S THIS THING WE

362
00:23:45,260 --> 00:23:47,450
SAY ABOUT MAKING A WAY OUT OF NO WAY.

363
00:23:47,450 --> 00:23:48,740
Cooper: MAKING A WAY OUT OF NO WAY?  Elliott:

364
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,380
WHEN THESE FOLKS WERE FORCED OVER HERE FROM THE CONTINENT

365
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,820
OF AFRICA THEY DIDN'T COME WITH EMPTY HEADS. THEY CAME

366
00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:59,320
WITH EMPTY HANDS. SO, THEY FOUND A WAY TO MAKE

367
00:23:59,570 --> 00:24:01,600
A WAY. AND THEY RELIED ON EACH OTHER. AND THEY

368
00:24:01,730 --> 00:24:05,400
WERE RESILIENT.  Cooper: AFRICATOWN IS THE ONLY SURVIVING COMMUNITY

369
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,630
IN AMERICA FOUNDED BY AFRICANS, AND OVER THE DECADES IT

370
00:24:09,790 --> 00:24:13,420
PROSPERED. THERE WAS A BUSINESS DISTRICT. THE FIRST BLACK SCHOOL

371
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:18,600
IN MOBILE AND, BY THE 1960s, 12,000 PEOPLE LIVED HERE.

372
00:24:18,220 --> 00:24:21,250
Lorna: THEY BUILT A CITY WITHIN A CITY. AND

373
00:24:22,300 --> 00:24:25,350
THAT'S WHAT WE CAN BE PROUD OF.  Cassandra: WE

374
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,600
HAD A GAS STATION. WE HAD A GROCERY STORE.

375
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,190
Patterson: DRIVE IN.  Cassandra: POST OFFICE, ALL THAT WAS

376
00:24:31,380 --> 00:24:35,490
A BOOMING AREA OF BLACK-OWNED BUSINESS.  Cooper: BUT TODAY

377
00:24:35,940 --> 00:24:39,500
THOSE BLACK OWNED BUSINESSES ARE GONE. AN INTERSTATE HIGHWAY WAS

378
00:24:39,690 --> 00:24:42,170
BUILT THROUGH THE MIDDLE OF AFRICATOWN IN THE EARLY 1990s,

379
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,730
AND THE SMALL CLUSTERS OF REMAINING HOMES ARE SURROUNDED BY

380
00:24:46,870 --> 00:24:50,980
FACTORIES AND CHEMICAL PLANTS. FEWER THAN 2,000 PEOPLE STILL LIVE

381
00:24:51,250 --> 00:24:55,930
HERE. THE SMITHSONIAN'S MARY ELLIOTT TOOK US TO AFRICATOWN'S CEMETERY,

382
00:24:56,300 --> 00:24:59,990
WHERE SOME OF THE "CLOTILDA'S" SURVIVORS AND GENERATIONS OF THEIR

383
00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:05,410
DESCENDANTS ARE BURIED. NO MATTER WHERE YOU GO IN AFRICATOWN,

384
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,970
YOU CAN HEAR FACTORIES AND INDUSTRY AND THE HIGHWAY.

385
00:25:08,970 --> 00:25:13,500
Elliott: THERE IS THIS CONSTANT BUZZ. IT'S A BUZZ YOU

386
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,650
HEAR ALL THE TIME, DAY AND NIGHT. AND IT'S A

387
00:25:15,710 --> 00:25:18,400
CONSTANT REMINDER OF THE BREAKUP OF THIS COMMUNITY.  Cooper:

388
00:25:20,210 --> 00:25:22,620
THE DESCENDANTS WE SPOKE WITH HOPE THE DISCOVERY OF THE

389
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,920
"CLOTILDA" WILL LEAD TO THE REVITALIZATION OF AFRICATOWN, AND THEY'D

390
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,630
LIKE THE DESCENDANTS OF TIMOTHY MEAHER, THE MAN WHO ENSLAVED

391
00:25:30,170 --> 00:25:34,290
THEIR ANCESTORS, TO GET INVOLVED. ACCORDING TO TAX RECORDS, MEAHER'S

392
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,000
DESCENDANTS STILL OWN AN ESTIMATED 14% OF THE LAND IN

393
00:25:38,900 --> 00:25:42,000
HISTORIC AFRICATOWN, THEIR NAME IS ON NEARBY STREET SIGNS AND

394
00:25:42,170 --> 00:25:45,890
PROPERTY MARKERS. COURT FILINGS INDICATE THEIR REAL ESTATE AND TIMBER

395
00:25:46,210 --> 00:25:51,250
BUSINESSES ARE WORTH AN ESTIMATED $36 MILLION. BUT, SO FAR,

396
00:25:51,730 --> 00:25:54,150
THE DESCENDANTS WE SPOKE WITH SAY NO ONE FROM THE

397
00:25:54,270 --> 00:25:56,810
MEAHER FAMILY HAS BEEN WILLING TO MEET.  Patterson: I

398
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:58,180
DON'T THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE WANT TO REMEMBER.

399
00:25:58,180 --> 00:26:00,730
Wallace: BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THEY BENEFIT FROM

400
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,450
IT TODAY.  THAT THEY BENEFITED, THAT'S IT. THAT THEY

401
00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:06,360
BENEFITED. AND THEY DON'T WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT.  Cooper:

402
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:11,000
PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO LOOK BACK AND ACKNOWLEDGE IT.

403
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:11,960
THEY DON'T WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THAT'S HOW PART OF

404
00:26:11,970 --> 00:26:12,770
THEIR WEALTH WAS DERIVED.  Patterson: BIG PART.  AND

405
00:26:13,700 --> 00:26:15,900
THAT, ON THE BACKS OF THOSE PEOPLE.  Cooper: WHAT

406
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:17,200
WOULD YOU WANT TO SAY TO THEM? I MEAN, IF--

407
00:26:17,530 --> 00:26:19,610
IF THEY WERE WILLING TO SIT DOWN AND HAVE, YOU

408
00:26:19,780 --> 00:26:21,250
KNOW, HAVE A COFFEE WITH YOU?  WE WOULD FIRST

409
00:26:21,670 --> 00:26:24,730
NEED TO ACKNOWLEDGE WHAT WAS DONE IN THE PAST. AND

410
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:29,190
THEN THERE'S AN ACCOUNTABILITY PIECE, THAT YOUR FAMILY, FOR THIS

411
00:26:29,420 --> 00:26:33,550
MANY YEARS, FIVE YEARS, OWNED MY ANCESTORS. AND THEN THE

412
00:26:33,610 --> 00:26:36,100
THIRD PIECE WOULD BE, HOW DO WE PARTNER TOGETHER WITH,

413
00:26:37,170 --> 00:26:42,300
IN AFRICATOWN?  I DON'T WANT TO RECEIVE ANYTHING PERSONALLY.

414
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,630
HOWEVER, THERE'S A NEED FOR A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT IN

415
00:26:46,830 --> 00:26:49,620
THAT COMMUNITY.  Cooper: WE REACHED OUT TO FOUR MEMBERS

416
00:26:49,820 --> 00:26:52,900
OF THE MEAHER FAMILY, ALL EITHER DECLINED OR DIDN'T RESPOND

417
00:26:53,380 --> 00:26:56,380
TO OUR REQUEST FOR AN INTERVIEW. ONE MAN WHO DID

418
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,120
WANT TO MEET THE DESCENDANTS, IS MIKE FOSTER. HE'S A

419
00:27:00,330 --> 00:27:03,990
73-YEAR-OLD AIR FORCE VETERAN FROM MONTANA. WHILE RESEARCHING HIS GENEALOGY

420
00:27:04,660 --> 00:27:07,870
LAST YEAR, MIKE FOSTER DISCOVERED HE IS THE DISTANT COUSIN

421
00:27:08,470 --> 00:27:12,800
OF WILLIAM FOSTER, THE CAPTAIN OF THE "CLOTILDA." HAD YOU

422
00:27:12,390 --> 00:27:13,670
HEARD OF THE LAST SLAVE SHIP?  William Foster: NO.

423
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,610
NO.  Cooper: WHAT DID YOU THINK WHEN YOU HEARD

424
00:27:17,810 --> 00:27:21,100
IT?  Foster: I WASN'T HAPPY ABOUT IT. IT WAS,

425
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,660
IT WAS VERY DISTRESSING.  Cooper: DO YOU FEEL SOME

426
00:27:24,860 --> 00:27:28,140
GUILT?  Foster: NO, I DIDN'T FEEL ANY GUILT. I

427
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:33,480
DIDN'T DO IT. BUT I COULD APOLOGIZE FOR IT.

428
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,610
Cooper: AND LAST FEBRUARY, BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT

429
00:27:36,790 --> 00:27:40,320
HE DID.  Lorna: YEAH, OVER 160 YEARS HAVE PASSED,

430
00:27:40,810 --> 00:27:43,960
AND WE FINALLY--  Foster: 160 YEARS.  Lorna: YES.

431
00:27:44,170 --> 00:27:45,250
Davis: THIS IS A POWERFUL MOMENT. THIS IS A

432
00:27:46,650 --> 00:27:48,860
POWERFUL MOMENT.  Foster: SO, I'M HERE TO SAY I'M

433
00:27:49,300 --> 00:27:55,430
SORRY.  Lorna: THANK YOU.  THANK YOU.  Cooper:

434
00:27:56,690 --> 00:27:59,430
IN AN EFFORT TO ATTRACT TOURISM TO AFRICATOWN, THE STATE

435
00:27:59,710 --> 00:28:03,230
OF ALABAMA PLANS TO BUILD A WELCOME CENTER HERE, BUT

436
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,490
THE DESCENDANTS WE SPOKE WITH HOPE MORE CAN BE DONE

437
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,470
TO RESTORE AND REBUILD THIS HISTORIC BLACK COMMUNITY, AND HONOR

438
00:28:11,780 --> 00:28:15,110
THE AFRICAN MEN AND WOMEN WHO FOUNDED IT.  SO,

439
00:28:15,250 --> 00:28:18,800
I ALWAYS THINK, MY GOD, SUCH STRONG PEOPLE, SO CAPABLE,

440
00:28:19,260 --> 00:28:22,300
ACHIEVED SO MUCH, AND STARTED WITH SO LITTLE.  Patterson:

441
00:28:22,650 --> 00:28:25,290
WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING TO MAKE SURE THAT THE

442
00:28:25,450 --> 00:28:29,770
LEGACY OF THOSE PEOPLE IN THAT CARGO HOLD NEVER EVER

443
00:28:30,610 --> 00:28:34,200
IS FORGOTTEN. BECAUSE THEY ARE THE REASON THAT WERE EVEN

444
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:48,500
HERE. (\TICKING\) (\TICKING\)  Whitaker: SOME OF YOU MAY KNOW

445
00:28:48,290 --> 00:28:51,440
JAMES CORDEN AS THE FRISKY, FUNNY BRITISH HOST OF "THE

446
00:28:51,530 --> 00:28:55,650
LATE LATE SHOW," ONE OF VIACOM/CBS' OWN. BUT IF YOU

447
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,840
ARE NOT ONE TO STAY 30 A.M., THEN MAYBE YOU'RE

448
00:28:59,980 --> 00:29:02,110
ONE OF THE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS WHO HAVE CAUGHT CORDEN

449
00:29:02,500 --> 00:29:05,600
ON HIS YOUTUBE CHANNEL. TAKING A TALK SHOW STUCK IN

450
00:29:05,730 --> 00:29:09,800
AN AFTER HOURS TIME-SLOT, AND MAKING IT AVAILABLE ONLINE AROUND

451
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,440
THE GLOBE. WITH CHARM AND WIT, CORDEN GETS A-LIST STARS

452
00:29:14,950 --> 00:29:16,810
TO OPEN UP IN A WAY THAT SEEMS TO SURPRISE

453
00:29:17,380 --> 00:29:20,570
THEM AS MUCH AS US. AMAZING FOR SOMEONE WHO WAS

454
00:29:20,780 --> 00:29:23,580
VIRTUALLY UNKNOWN IN THE U.S. WHEN HE MOVED HERE SIX

455
00:29:23,940 --> 00:29:26,900
YEARS AGO. BUT JAMES CORDEN WILL TELL YOU HE HAD

456
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,270
ALREADY PUT IN HIS 10,000 HOURS- A DEFT PHYSICAL ACTOR,

457
00:29:31,780 --> 00:29:34,630
WHO, BY HIS LATE 20s, HAD ACHIEVED SUCCESS AND FAME

458
00:29:35,130 --> 00:29:39,150
IN BRITAIN. CORDEN SAYS HE'S ON A LIFELONG QUEST FOR

459
00:29:39,410 --> 00:29:43,230
HAPPINESS, AND HE'LL DO ALMOST ANYTHING TO MOVE THE NEEDLE

460
00:29:43,870 --> 00:29:50,340
ON HIS AUDIENCE'S HAPPY SCALE. JAMES, WE ARE READY IF

461
00:29:50,460 --> 00:29:51,910
YOU ARE READY.  James Corden: I'M READY. YES, ARE

462
00:29:52,380 --> 00:29:53,900
YOU READY?  Whitaker: I AM-- I THINK I'M READY.

463
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,600
EIGHT FEET AWAY AND RIGHT ON CUE.  Corden: CAN

464
00:29:57,210 --> 00:29:58,470
I BE HONEST, BILL? I WROTE AN EMAIL. AND I

465
00:29:58,650 --> 00:30:00,810
WAS SAYING, "WHAT SHOULD I WEAR? SHOULD I JUST WEAR

466
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:01,940
A SUIT?" AND THEY SAID, "NO." THEY SAID, "BILL WON'T

467
00:30:02,130 --> 00:30:05,190
BE WEARING A SUIT." (\LAUGHS\)  Whitaker: OH, NO. BUT

468
00:30:05,450 --> 00:30:07,840
I READ THAT YOU'RE KIND OF A FASHION PERSON. I

469
00:30:07,970 --> 00:30:09,460
SAID, "WELL, I GUESS I SHOULD- - UP MY GAME

470
00:30:09,780 --> 00:30:11,180
A LITTLE BIT."  Corden: WELL-- AND I HAVE TO

471
00:30:11,310 --> 00:30:13,200
SAY IT'S NOT GONE UNNOTICED. YOU'VE MATCHED THE-- (\LAUGHS\) SOCKS

472
00:30:14,100 --> 00:30:17,180
TO THE SUIT. THAT'S--  Whitaker: BEYOND...  Corden: --IMPORTANT

473
00:30:17,540 --> 00:30:19,460
TO HAVE A WELL-DRESSED ANKLE. THAT'S WHAT I THINK. YEAH.

474
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,840
Whitaker: WE SPOKE WITH JAMES CORDEN AT THE FABLED

475
00:30:23,380 --> 00:30:26,990
SUNSET TOWER HOTEL IN WEST HOLLYWOOD, A STONE'S THROW FROM

476
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:32,200
ANOTHER CBS TELEVISION CITY, WHERE FOR FIVE AND A HALF

477
00:30:32,580 --> 00:30:36,520
YEARS, HE'S CLOCKED- 00 A.M., FOUR DAYS A WEEK, TO

478
00:30:36,630 --> 00:30:39,780
TAKE ON THE SERIOUS BUSINESS OF DELIVERING A SHOW EACH

479
00:30:40,500 --> 00:30:44,640
NIGHT- NOW TAPING UNDER STRICT COVID-19 PROTOCOLS. HOW HAS IT

480
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,330
CHANGED YOUR SHOW? HOW HAS IT CHANGED WHAT YOU DO?

481
00:30:47,570 --> 00:30:52,100
Corden: WELL, I THINK IT'S-- ITS CHANGED EVERYTHING IN

482
00:30:52,260 --> 00:30:54,540
A SENSE, YOU KNOW, WE LIKE TO THINK OF IT

483
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,620
AS BEING ABOUT SCALE, ABOUT SIZE AND GETTING OUT OF

484
00:30:57,730 --> 00:31:00,870
THE STUDIO AND RUNNING OUT INTO THE ROAD AND SHOOTIN'

485
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,820
BIG SKETCHES, BIG NUMBERS, BIG AMBITION. AND OBVIOUSLY THOSE THINGS

486
00:31:04,900 --> 00:31:08,720
ARE VERY DIFFICULT AT THIS MOMENT.  Whitaker: WITH NO

487
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,490
AUDIENCE AND FEWER GUESTS ON THE COUCH, CORDEN'S MORE THAN

488
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,300
MADE DO, FIRST DOING THE SHOW FROM HIS GARAGE AND

489
00:31:16,460 --> 00:31:19,620
NOW BACK IN THE STUDIO, EASILY RIFFING WITH HIS BAND.

490
00:31:21,950 --> 00:31:25,560
AND, ON THIS OCCASION, THIS REPORTER, TO WITNESS THE PROCESS,

491
00:31:26,470 --> 00:31:28,670
WARTS AND ALL.  Corden: AMERICAN IS GREAT AGAIN, ISN'T

492
00:31:28,730 --> 00:31:35,420
IT? THAT WON'T BE IN THE SHOW! BILL, GIVE ME

493
00:31:35,450 --> 00:31:38,810
A BREAK!  Whitaker: CORDEN THINKS EVERYTHING THEY DO NOW

494
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,470
IS LOOSER, AND HE PUTS A PREMIUM ON CALLING IT

495
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:42,740
AS IT IS.  Corden: § MAYBE I'M IMMUNE IT'S

496
00:31:42,750 --> 00:31:42,790
OKAY TO GO OUT FOR A RIDE § § WITH

497
00:31:42,790 --> 00:31:54,890
OTHERS TRAPPED INSIDE § I WILL SAY, THAT AS TIME'S

498
00:31:55,330 --> 00:32:00,270
GONE ON, AS WE'VE BEEN LIVING UNDER THIS ADMINISTRATION, I

499
00:32:00,590 --> 00:32:04,570
DON'T EVEN CONSIDER IT TO BE POLITICS. I CONSIDER IT

500
00:32:05,260 --> 00:32:09,900
TO BE RIGHT AND WRONG. I CONSIDER IT TO BE

501
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,780
GOOD VERSUS EVIL. (\LAUGHS\) WE ARE MORE THAN COMFORTABLE TALKING

502
00:32:17,180 --> 00:32:20,700
ABOUT ANYTHING. WE ALSO FEEL LIKE WE'RE AN ENTERTAINMENT SHOW.

503
00:32:20,930 --> 00:32:24,500
OUR PRIMARY CONCERN IS TO JUST TRY AND MAKE YOU

504
00:32:24,830 --> 00:32:29,500
LAUGH SOMEHOW. THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE LOVE TO DO. AND--

505
00:32:29,380 --> 00:32:32,100
I'LL REALLY STOP AT NOTHING TO TRY. (\LAUGHS\) IT MAY

506
00:32:32,190 --> 00:32:34,500
NOT ALWAYS WORK. (\LAUGHS\) BUT I'LL GIVE IT MY BEST

507
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:40,160
SHOT, YOU KNOW.  Whitaker: CORDEN BURST ONTO THE LATE

508
00:32:40,490 --> 00:32:43,360
NIGHT LANDSCAPE, NOT TO RIP UP THE NOTION OF THE

509
00:32:43,460 --> 00:32:46,900
TALK SHOW, BUT TO MAKE ONE THAT WOULD TRAVEL ON

510
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,440
THE INTERNET. ADD TO THAT, MUCH OF THE SHOW'S SUCCESS

511
00:32:50,300 --> 00:32:51,990
IS ROOTED IN CORDEN'S NATURE.  Corden: SO, HANG ON,

512
00:32:52,670 --> 00:32:55,640
AM I MOVING INTO YOUR HOUSE?  Whitaker: AN AFFABLE,

513
00:32:56,300 --> 00:33:00,600
DROLL BRIT, WHO'S APPEAL DRAWS MEGASTARS, AND WHO EACH NIGHT

514
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,570
HOSTS MORE OF A COCKTAIL PARTY THAN A LATE SHOW.

515
00:33:03,740 --> 00:33:07,620
§ THESE ARE A FEW OF MY FAVORITE THINGS §

516
00:33:07,620 --> 00:33:12,810
AND THEN THERE'S WHAT CORDEN MODESTLY CALLS THEIR DIGITAL OUTREACH--

517
00:33:12,980 --> 00:33:16,500
HIGHLY PRODUCED SEGMENTS DESIGNED MORE TO BREAK THE INTERNET, THAN

518
00:33:16,730 --> 00:33:22,360
TRAVEL THROUGH IT.  GO, GO, GO!  Whitaker: TELL

519
00:33:22,510 --> 00:33:24,840
ME ABOUT SOME OF THE SKETCHES THAT HAVE CAUGHT ON.

520
00:33:25,540 --> 00:33:27,550
"SPILL YOUR GUTS."  Corden: "SPILL YOUR GUTS OR FILL

521
00:33:28,300 --> 00:33:35,270
YOUR GUTS." YEAH, THERE IS A COMMON THREAD IN ALL

522
00:33:35,530 --> 00:33:38,880
OF THESE, AND ALL OF THESE ARE ABOUT SHOWING THE

523
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:45,910
HUMAN BEING INSIDE THIS VERY, VERY FAMOUS PERSON. THAT'S ACTUALLY

524
00:33:46,430 --> 00:33:53,680
WHAT IT IS. § § §  Whitaker: NOWHERE IS

525
00:33:53,930 --> 00:33:56,260
IT TRUER THAN IN THE FRONT SEAT OF JAMES CORDEN'S

526
00:33:56,730 --> 00:34:04,350
RANGE ROVER. § § § § § § A FEW

527
00:34:04,650 --> 00:34:07,180
YEARS AGO, YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN FOR NOT KNOWING

528
00:34:07,500 --> 00:34:12,180
WHAT "CARPOOL KARAOKE" IS. TODAY YOU HAVE NO EXCUSE.

529
00:34:12,180 --> 00:34:16,240
Corden: "CARPOOL KARAOKE." THE CORE OF IT REALLY ISN'T THE

530
00:34:16,330 --> 00:34:19,150
SONGS. THE CORE OF IT IS THE INTIMACY OF THE

531
00:34:19,240 --> 00:34:22,450
INTERVIEW, THAT THESE ARE SOME OF THE MOST FAMOUS PEOPLE

532
00:34:22,790 --> 00:34:25,780
ON PLANET EARTH. YOU KNOW, THE-- THE-- THE BIGGEST SINGERS

533
00:34:26,470 --> 00:34:29,710
IN THE WORLD AND THEY'RE IN AN-- ENVIRONMENT WHICH IS

534
00:34:29,850 --> 00:34:34,900
COMPLETELY HUMANIZING. THIS TRAFFIC HAS BEEN TERRIBLE, I REALLY APPRECIATE

535
00:34:34,250 --> 00:34:36,990
IT.  I GOT YA.  Whitaker: JAMES CORDEN TURNED

536
00:34:37,450 --> 00:34:41,220
A GUILELESS INVITATION TO DRIVE AROUND LOS ANGELES INTO SOMETHING

537
00:34:41,690 --> 00:34:51,560
HE HANGS THE SHOW ON. § § § § §

538
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:51,860
§ § § § EACH CARPOOL IS A VIRAL "SURE-

539
00:34:51,890 --> 00:34:53,830
BET." § ENOUGH IS ENOUGH IS ENOUGH §  Whitaker:

540
00:34:56,910 --> 00:35:00,610
SOMETIMES TAKING AN ENTIRE DAY TO PRODUCE AND OFTEN OUTPACING

541
00:35:01,290 --> 00:35:07,550
HIS TV AUDIENCE BY 100 MILLION VIEWS. NOTABLE, BECAUSE AT

542
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,680
FIRST, NOBODY WANTED TO DO IT. IT WAS HARD TO

543
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:12,180
GET THEM TO GET IN YOUR CAR?  Corden: HARD,

544
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,620
ARE YOU'RE JOKING? OF COURSE IT WAS. IMAGINE GETTING THAT

545
00:35:14,710 --> 00:35:19,380
CALL. (\LAUGHS\) YOU'RE, LIKE, ADELE'S PUBLICIST. LIKE, "YEAH, SO IT'S

546
00:35:19,580 --> 00:35:22,630
A HOST WHOSE SHOW IS COMPLETELY UNPROVEN. THEY'VE NEVER HOSTED

547
00:35:22,970 --> 00:35:25,440
A SHOW BEFORE. WE'D LOVE YOU TO JUST GET IN

548
00:35:25,500 --> 00:35:28,440
A CAR AND DRIVE AROUND AND SING YOUR SONGS. AND

549
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,680
WE'RE NOT REALLY SURE ABOUT THE INSURANCE ON THIS ONE."

550
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:33,690
YOU KNOW, IT WAS CRAZY. I MEAN, WE MANAGED TO

551
00:35:33,780 --> 00:35:36,570
GET MARIAH CAREY-- AND I WILL ALWAYS BE INDEBTED TO

552
00:35:36,630 --> 00:35:41,430
HER FOR SAYING YES. SO, I GENUINELY, HONESTLY DON'T KNOW

553
00:35:41,610 --> 00:35:44,160
IF WE'RE HAVE THIS CONVERSATION IF SHE HADN'T SAID YES.

554
00:35:45,150 --> 00:35:46,490
I THINK IT'S THAT IMPORTANT TO OUR SHOW.  Whitaker:

555
00:35:47,470 --> 00:35:49,100
DO YOU HAVE A FAVORITE?  Corden: WELL, THERE'S-- THERE'S

556
00:35:49,260 --> 00:35:52,700
SO MANY. I MEAN, THE, THE-- DOING IT WITH PAUL

557
00:35:52,270 --> 00:35:56,650
McCARTNEY WILL PROBABLY TAKE SOME BEATING FROM ME PERSONALLY. IT

558
00:35:56,940 --> 00:36:01,880
WAS JUST A-- JUST-- A DAY I'LL NEVER, EVER FORGET.

559
00:36:02,100 --> 00:36:03,680
Whitaker: WHAT STICKS OUT IN YOUR MIND ABOUT THAT

560
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:13,830
DAY?  Corden: ALL OF IT. § PENNY LANE §

561
00:36:13,830 --> 00:36:15,750
SOMETIMES I THINK, IF THAT WAS AN AUCTION PRIZE WHAT

562
00:36:16,230 --> 00:36:18,450
WOULD IT GO FOR, YOU KNOW? AND I'M AT WORK.

563
00:36:18,700 --> 00:36:23,740
WHAT?  Whitaker: AND LIKE SO MANY OTHER SEGMENTS, CORDEN'S

564
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,400
CARPOOL WITH THE BEATLE HAS BROUGHT A SMILE AND A

565
00:36:27,140 --> 00:36:30,960
SONG TO MORE THAN 56 MILLION PEOPLE WHO'VE WATCHED IT

566
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:36,690
ONLINE.  Corden: THEY'LL NEVER BELIEVE THAT. IT'S REALLY THE--

567
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,220
THE BEDROCK OF-- OF WHAT OUR SHOW IS BUILT ON.

568
00:36:39,530 --> 00:36:42,190
BUT I THINK WHEN THE SHOW STARTED WE WERE IN--

569
00:36:42,390 --> 00:36:46,720
I DON'T KNOW-- EIGHT OR TEN COUNTRIES. AND I THINK

570
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,990
NOW WE'RE IN OVER 100 COUNTRIES. IT'S UTTERLY BEMUSING TO

571
00:36:52,140 --> 00:36:55,800
ME HOW FAR THAT REACHES.  Whitaker: THIS IS LIKE

572
00:36:55,970 --> 00:36:58,650
A CULTURAL PHENOMENON.  Corden: I JUST-- YEAH, I-- I-

573
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,590
- I'M-- I'M-- I'M-- (\LAUGHS\) YOU'RE MAKING ME FEEL INCREDIBLY

574
00:37:02,230 --> 00:37:06,900
BRITISH BY-- NOT BEING ABLE TO EVEN LOOK YOU IN

575
00:37:06,210 --> 00:37:09,880
THE EYE-- DURING A COMPLIMENT OR ANY KIND OF RECOGNITION

576
00:37:10,610 --> 00:37:14,600
OF SUCCESS. (\LAUGHS\)  Whitaker: CORDEN GREW UP AN HOUR

577
00:37:14,510 --> 00:37:17,620
OUTSIDE OF LONDON. THE ONLY SON OF WORKING CLASS PARENTS,

578
00:37:18,140 --> 00:37:20,550
HIS MOTHER WAS A SOCIAL WORKER AND HIS FATHER, A

579
00:37:20,590 --> 00:37:24,640
MUSICIAN AND BIBLE SALESMAN. CORDEN WAS SCARCELY INTERESTED IN ACADEMICS--

580
00:37:25,630 --> 00:37:28,100
DRAMA CLASS BEING THE EXCEPTION.  Corden: I GOT A

581
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:33,290
B IN DRAMA AND A C IN HOME ECONOMICS, WHICH

582
00:37:33,460 --> 00:37:34,810
I THINK IS CLEAR TO YOU THAT THOSE ARE THE

583
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:36,510
ONLY-- IF YOU LOOK AT ME NOW, THOSE ARE REALLY

584
00:37:36,830 --> 00:37:39,660
T-- (\LAUGHTER\) TWO THINGS I TOOK A PRIMARY INTEREST IN,

585
00:37:40,300 --> 00:37:43,700
WHICH IS PERFORMING AND EATING. (\LAUGHS\)  Whitaker: YOU TALK

586
00:37:43,630 --> 00:37:48,230
ABOUT-- OFTEN, ABOUT THE-- THE STRUGGLE YOU HAVE HAD WITH

587
00:37:48,630 --> 00:37:50,140
EATING AND WITH YOUR WEIGHT.  Corden: YEAH.  Whitaker:

588
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,910
AND YOU WERE BULLIED BECAUSE OF-- OF YOUR WEIGHT IN

589
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,300
SCHOOL.  Corden: I DON'T LOOK BACK AT MY TIME

590
00:37:56,620 --> 00:38:00,570
AT SCHOOL THAT-- THAT I WAS BULLIED BECAUSE OF MY

591
00:38:02,110 --> 00:38:06,890
SIZE. IN TRUTH THAT'S PROBABLY WHERE ALL OF THAT FAUX

592
00:38:07,170 --> 00:38:11,240
CONFIDENCE COMES FROM. IT WAS ALL A DEFENSE MECHANISM OF,

593
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,170
LIKE, WELL, I'LL BE THE BIGGEST TARGET IN THE ROOM.

594
00:38:14,150 --> 00:38:18,630
BULLIES DON'T LIKE THAT. BULLIES-- CONFIDENCE IS, LIKE, KRYPTONITE TO

595
00:38:18,700 --> 00:38:22,420
BULLIES.  Whitaker: JAMES CORDEN'S CONFIDENCE WAS EQUAL TO HIS

596
00:38:22,620 --> 00:38:26,170
AMBITION. AT 17 HE FOUND HIS CALLING AND HIS VOICE,

597
00:38:26,810 --> 00:38:29,840
ALBEIT, WITH JUST ONE LINE IN A MUSICAL IN LONDON'S

598
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,980
WEST END. HE WAS A WORKING ACTOR FOR MUCH OF

599
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,820
HIS 20s, BUT BIG LEAD ROLES WERE ELUSIVE, SO HE

600
00:38:37,100 --> 00:38:40,320
DECIDED TO WRITE THE PART FOR HIMSELF, CO- CREATING AND

601
00:38:40,470 --> 00:38:43,590
STARRING IN ONE OF THE U.K.'S MOST POPULAR TV COMEDIES,

602
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,110
"GAVIN AND STACEY." IT WON HIM AWARDS AND MADE HIM

603
00:38:48,290 --> 00:38:53,530
FAMOUS IN THE U.K. AT 34, CORDEN MARRIED JULIA CAREY.

604
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,970
THEY'RE NOW RAISING THREE CHILDREN IN LOS ANGELES, BECAUSE HOLLYWOOD

605
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,240
CAME CALLING AFTER HIS PERFORMANCE ON BROADWAY IN THE SLAPSTICK

606
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,250
"ONE MAN, TWO GUVNORS." IT WON HIM A TONY AWARD

607
00:39:05,720 --> 00:39:08,780
FOR BEST ACTOR AND GRABBED THE ATTENTION OF AMERICAN CRITICS

608
00:39:09,350 --> 00:39:12,790
AND TELEVISION EXECUTIVES ALIKE.  Corden: IT WAS GLORIOUS. DOING

609
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,400
THAT SHOW AND PLAYING THAT ROLE. AND-- AND I CAN

610
00:39:16,500 --> 00:39:20,900
REALLY CHART SORT OF EVERYTHING THAT'S HAPPENED IN MY PROFESSIONAL

611
00:39:20,700 --> 00:39:25,850
LIFE AS EVERYTHING BEFORE THAT PLAY AND EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED

612
00:39:26,370 --> 00:39:29,100
AFTER THAT PLAY.  Whitaker: AND THERE'S A LOT TO

613
00:39:29,230 --> 00:39:32,950
CONSIDER, THE LATEST IS A GLITZY MUSICAL ADAPTED FROM BROADWAY

614
00:39:33,620 --> 00:39:37,540
ABOUT FOUR WASHED-UP THEATRE ACTORS ATTEMPTING A COMEBACK THROUGH CELEBRITY

615
00:39:38,190 --> 00:39:41,560
ACTIVISM.  Corden: YOU'LL BECOME CELEBRITY ACTIVISTS!  Whitaker: "THE

616
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:47,900
PROM" PREMIERES ON NETFLIX DECEMBER 11. WITH BIG NUMBERS AND

617
00:39:47,210 --> 00:39:51,500
SPECTACULAR SETS, THE FILM SHOWS-OFF CORDEN'S TALENTS FOR WHAT HE

618
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,590
CALLS HIS "OTHER CAREER," A DEEP LOVE OF ACTING AND

619
00:39:55,730 --> 00:39:58,810
PERFORMING. SO MANY OF YOUR FANS HAVE NEVER SEEN YOU

620
00:39:59,380 --> 00:40:02,240
DO THE SONG-AND-DANCE ROUTINE.  Corden: YOU KNOW, WHEN I

621
00:40:02,390 --> 00:40:03,450
TOOK THE JOB AS THE HOST OF "THE LATE LATE

622
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:05,640
SHOW," LOTS OF PEOPLE TOLD ME, "OH, Y-- THAT'S IT.

623
00:40:05,940 --> 00:40:10,180
YOU'LL NEVER ACT AGAIN." SO, REALLY, I WAS SO KEEN

624
00:40:10,540 --> 00:40:13,890
TO PROVE THEM WRONG, THAT THERE WAS A WORLD IN

625
00:40:13,980 --> 00:40:16,220
WHICH I COULD DO THIS. AND I GUESS THIS IS

626
00:40:16,340 --> 00:40:18,720
A TEST FOR THAT.  Whitaker: THE MOVIE FEATURES CORDEN,

627
00:40:19,510 --> 00:40:23,830
ALONGSIDE ANDREW RANNELS AND OSCAR WINNERS, NICOLE KIDMAN AND THE

628
00:40:23,950 --> 00:40:28,930
MARVELOUS MERYL STREEP. WE SPOKE WITH HER REMOTELY. SO, WHAT

629
00:40:29,900 --> 00:40:31,210
DID YOU THINK WHEN YOU FOUND OUT JAMES CORDEN WAS

630
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,300
GOING TO BE A CO-STAR IN YOUR FILM?  Meryl

631
00:40:34,330 --> 00:40:38,500
Streep: WELL, I WAS-- I WAS THRILLED. I THINK HE'S

632
00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:45,870
ONE OF THE MOST PRETERNATURALLY TALENTED ACTORS, WRITERS, IMPROVISERS, MUSICIANS.

633
00:40:46,430 --> 00:40:51,630
HE'S-- HE'S A QUADRUPLE, QUINTUPLE THREAT. SO, IT'S-- IT'S FUN

634
00:40:51,820 --> 00:40:52,300
TO WORK WITH HIM. IT'S FUN TO BE WITH HIM.

635
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,570
Whitaker: HOW IS IT THAT HE GETS SUCH A

636
00:40:55,620 --> 00:40:58,930
WIDE ARRAY OF PEOPLE, IN-- INCLUDING PEOPLE LIKE YOU, TO--

637
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,160
TO GO ALONG WITH SOME OF THE CRAZY STUFF HE

638
00:41:01,210 --> 00:41:04,180
DOES ON HIS SHOW?  Streep: WELL, HE-- YOU KNOW

639
00:41:04,340 --> 00:41:07,280
YOU'RE IN SAFE HANDS, I THINK. I DON'T-- I-- HE'S

640
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:09,650
NOT GOING TO PUSH YOU OVER A CLIFF. IT'S LIKE

641
00:41:10,350 --> 00:41:14,910
GREAT-- GREAT DIRECTORS-- YOU FEEL SAFE WITH THEM. AND I

642
00:41:15,300 --> 00:41:19,800
THINK-- JAMES H-- YOU S-- YOU TRUST THAT HE'S-- HE'S

643
00:41:19,390 --> 00:41:26,360
GOT THIS IN HAND. YEAH.  Whitaker: AT 42, IT'S

644
00:41:26,860 --> 00:41:30,780
A GOOD BET JAMES CORDEN WILL CONTINUE TO SURPRISE, DELIGHT

645
00:41:31,380 --> 00:41:35,440
AND EVOLVE BEFORE OUR EYES. WITH A SAGE UNDERSTANDING OF

646
00:41:35,550 --> 00:41:39,500
HIS FICKLE INDUSTRY, CORDEN DELIGHTS IN HIS SUCCESS, BUT DOESN'T

647
00:41:39,860 --> 00:41:42,390
TAKE ANY OF IT FOR GRANTED.  Corden: I THINK

648
00:41:42,570 --> 00:41:47,260
MY JOB IS TO CARE ABOUT THE SHOW-- TO-- TO

649
00:41:47,720 --> 00:41:50,250
A RIDICULOUS AMOUNT, THE BEAT OF IT, THE TONE OF

650
00:41:50,330 --> 00:41:52,870
IT. UNTIL THE MOMENT I START HOSTING IT. AND THEN

651
00:41:53,100 --> 00:41:57,110
MY JOB IS TO JUST ONLY BE ON A QUEST

652
00:41:57,580 --> 00:42:02,170
FOR FUN. A LIFELONG, UP AT DAWN, PRIDE- SWALLOWING SIEGE

653
00:42:03,100 --> 00:42:05,900
FOR FUN.  Whitaker: I LOVE THAT.  Corden: THAT'S

654
00:42:05,290 --> 00:42:07,340
ALL IT'S ABOUT, ISN'T IT? THAT'S WHAT EVERYTHING'S ABOUT. (\TICKING\)

655
00:42:11,690 --> 00:42:14,560
\HEAR MORE FROM JAMES GORDON.  WHAT ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC

656
00:42:15,180 --> 00:42:19,160
ABOUT RIGHT NOW?  90% OF EVERYTHING. \AT 60minutesovertime.com. (\TICKING\)

657
00:42:19,390 --> 00:42:28,230
Whitaker: I'M BILL WHITAKER. WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK

658
00:42:28,510 --> 00:42:36,470
WITH ANOTHER EDITION OF "60 MINUTES."  JAMES WE ARE

659
00:42:36,540 --> 00:42:38,430
READY IF YOU READY.  I AM READY.  ARE

660
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,230
YOU READY?  I THINK I AM READY.  I

661
00:42:42,370 --> 00:42:44,830
WROTE AN E-MAIL SAYING WHAT SHOULD I WEAR? SHOULD I

662
00:42:44,900 --> 00:42:46,360
JUST WEAR A SUIT? I MAY SAY NO.  BUT

663
00:42:46,390 --> 00:42:49,510
IF YOU GOING TO WEAR A SUIT.  NONETHELESS, BUT

664
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,680
I READ YOU ARE KIND OF A FASHION PERSON.

665
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,100
I SAID I HAVE TO UP MY GAME A LITTLE

666
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:56,140
BIT.  I HAVE TO SAY IT HAS NOT GONE

667
00:42:56,300 --> 00:42:58,620
UNNOTICED.  YOU MATCHED YOUR SOCKS TO THE SUIT. THAT

668
00:42:58,620 --> 00:43:01,260
IS --  THAT IS BEYOND.  IT IS IMPORTANT

669
00:43:01,700 --> 00:43:03,450
TO HAVE A WELL DRESSED ANKLE.  THAT'S WHAT I

670
00:43:03,630 --> 00:43:07,610
THINK.  AND HE ENDED THE EVENING WHERE IT BEGAN.

671
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:10,290
NEVER, EVER AGAIN WOULD I WEAR SUCH A BLAND

672
00:43:13,390 --> 00:43:17,210
SOCK.  THEY ARE PRETTY BLAND.  BLACK SOCKS. I

673
00:43:17,330 --> 00:43:21,690
AM TELLING YOU, I AM TELLING YOU.  SOME PEOPLE

674
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,710
SAY HELLO.  HEY, HOW ARE YOU DOING?