>> WE ARE SEEING EVOLVING INTELLIGENCE ABOUT RUSSIAN PLANNING FOR POTENTIAL ATTACKS. WE HAVE TO ASSUME THAT THERE'S
GOING TO BE A BREACH. THERE'S GOING TO BE AN INCIDENT. THERE'S GOING TO BE AN ATTACK. >> WHEN YOU'VE GOT SOMEONE LIKE
VLADIMIR PUTIN, WHO JUST DOESN'T SEEM TO CARE ABOUT NORMS, HOW DO YOU PROTECT AGAINST THAT? >> I THINK WE ARE DEALING
WITH A VERY DANGEROUS, VERY SOPHISTICATED, VERY WELL-RESOURCED CYBER ACTOR. AND THAT'S WHY WE'VE BEEN
TELLING EVERYBODY, CONSISTENTLY, SHIELDS UP. ( TICKING )
>> VOLKSWAGEN MAKES MORE THAN JUST VOLKSWAGENS. THEY ALSO MAKE AUDIS, PORSCHES, LAMBORGHINIS, AND BENTLEYS.
BUT AS WE FOUND OUT, V.W. IS DEALING WITH A MYRIAD OF CHALLENGES-- OH, OH!
--ALL AT HIGH SPEED, AS THEY ATTEMPT TO BECOME 50% ELECTRIC BY THE END OF THE DECADE, ALL THE WHILE WATCHING THE WAR IN
UKRAINE, JUST A FEW HOURS AWAY. ( TICKING )
>> THIS IS CALLED AN eVTOL, A CLUNKY ACRONYM FOR ELECTRIC VERTICAL TAKEOFF AND LANDING AIRCRAFT.
IN THE NEAR FUTURE, AN ENTIRE INDUSTRY HOPES TO HAVE THESE ELECTRIC VEHICLES AVAILABLE SO YOU CAN SOAR OVER BUMPER-TO-
BUMPER TRAFFIC- IN SOME, FOR ABOUT THE COST OF AN UBER. ( TICKING )
>> I'M LESLEY STAHL. >> I'M BILL WHITAKER. >> I'M ANDERSON COOPER. >> I'M SHARYN ALFONSI.
>> I'M JON WERTHEIM. >> I'M SCOTT PELLEY. THOSE STORIES and more, TONIGHT, ON "60 MINUTES."
( TICKING )
>> Whitaker: THIS PAST WEEK, THE U.S. GOVERNMENT ISSUED AN URGENT WARNING ABOUT DANGEROUS NEW MALWARE THAT COULD CRIPPLE
INDUSTRIAL SYSTEMS WORLDWIDE. IT COMES ON THE HEELS OF UKRAINE WITHSTANDING AN ATTEMPT BY RUSSIAN HACKERS TO KNOCK OUT
POWER TO TWO MILLION PEOPLE IN THAT WAR-TORN COUNTRY. THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN RELEASING SENSITIVE
INTELLIGENCE AND DIRE WARNINGS THAT THE KREMLIN IS PREPARING TO LAUNCH A NEW GENERATION OF CYBERATTACKS ON AMERICAN SOIL.
U.S. CYBER DEFENDERS TELL US, THEY ARE NOW WATCHING RUSSIAN STATE ACTORS PROBE SOME OF OUR MOST CRITICAL SYSTEMS, AND ARE
BRACING THEMSELVES-— ESPECIALLY AT THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY-— WITH AN INITIATIVE CALLED "SHIELDS UP."
>> Jen Easterly: WE ARE SEEING EVOLVING INTELLIGENCE ABOUT RUSSIAN PLANNING FOR POTENTIAL ATTACKS.
AND WE HAVE TO ASSUME THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE A BREACH. THERE'S GOING TO BE AN INCIDENT. THERE'S GOING TO BE AN ATTACK.
>> Whitaker: JEN EASTERLY IS DIRECTOR OF THE CYBERSECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY AGENCY.
KNOWN BY ITS ACRONYM, CISA, THE AGENCY HELPS SECURE COMPUTER NETWORKS IN 16 SECTORS DEEMED VITAL TO NATIONAL SECURITY,
LIKE ENERGY, FINANCE, AND COMMUNICATIONS. >> Easterly: ANYTHING THAT COULD IMPACT CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE.
>> Whitaker: EASTERLY IS NOT YOUR TYPICAL BUREAUCRAT. SHE'S A DECORATED RETIRED ARMY OFFICER WITH TWO BRONZE STARS,
WHO'S ALSO DECORATED WITH A TATTOO, AND NAILS PAINTED THE COLORS OF UKRAINE'S FLAG. SHE'S A TECHIE WITH SERIOUS
CHOPS. A WEST POINT GRADUATE AND A RHODES SCHOLAR, SHE WAS PART OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY'S
ELITE HACKING TEAM, AND WENT ON TO HELP CREATE THE AGENCY'S CYBER COMMAND. WHEN YOU'VE GOT SOMEONE LIKE
VLADIMIR PUTIN, WHO JUST DOESN'T SEEM TO CARE ABOUT NORMS, HOW DO YOU PROTECT AGAINST THAT? >> Easterly: I THINK WE ARE
DEALING WITH A VERY DANGEROUS, VERY SOPHISTICATED, VERY WELL-RESOURCED CYBER ACTOR. AND THAT'S WHY WE'VE BEEN
TELLING EVERYBODY, CONSISTENTLY, "SHIELDS UP." WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? IT MEANS, ASSUME THERE WILL
BE DISRUPTIVE CYBER ACTIVITY, AND MAKE SURE YOU ARE PREPARED FOR IT. ARE YOU GAME?
ARE YOU READY TO HELP MAKE YOURSELF AND OUR NATION MORE SECURE? >> Whitaker: SHE'S TAKEN TO
SOCIAL MEDIA TO ENCOURAGE INDUSTRY TO SHARE INFORMATION WITH GOVERNMENT TO DEFEND AGAINST CYBERATTACKS, AND
CALLS ON ALL AMERICANS TO PUT THEIR SHIELDS UP BY UPDATING SOFTWARE AND USING MULTI-FACTOR AUTHENTICATION ON
COMPUTERS AND PHONES. >> Easterly: I'M A BIG "STAR TREK" FAN, SO, "SHIELDS UP!" AND IT HAS REALLY CAUGHT ON AS
SOMETHING THAT'S ALL ABOUT PREPARATION, NOT PANIC. >> Whitaker: IS THERE ONE SECTOR THAT WORRIES YOU MORE THAN THE
OTHERS? >> Easterly: WE KNOW THAT ENERGY, TARGETING THE ENERGY SECTOR, IS PART OF THE RUSSIAN
PLAY BOOK. BUT ALSO FINANCE, GIVEN POTENTIAL RETALIATORY ATTACKS FOR THE VERY SEVERE SANCTIONS
THAT THE U.S. AND OUR ALLIES HAVE IMPOSED AND CONTINUE TO IMPOSE. >> Whitaker: IF I'M JUST SITTING
A HOME WATCHING THIS, WHY SHOULD I BE CONCERNED ABOUT A CYBERATTACK? >> Easterly: EVERYTHING THAT
YOU DO, HOUR BY HOUR, IS LARGELY DEPENDENT IN SOME WAY ON THE CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE. HOW YOU GET GAS AT THE
LOCAL PUMP, HOW YOU GET FOOD AT THE GROCERY STORE, HOW YOU GET MONEY FROM YOUR A.T.M., HOW YOU GET YOUR POWER, HOW YOU GET YOUR
WATER, HOW YOU COMMUNICATE- ALL OF THAT IS OUR CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE. AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS
AT POTENTIAL RISK TO A RUSSIAN MALICIOUS CYBERATTACK. >> Robert Lee: THERE'S ONLY BEEN ONE COUNTRY OUT THERE THAT'S
ACTUALLY HAD EXPERTISE IN TAKING DOWN ELECTRIC POWER SYSTEMS, AND THAT'S RUSSIA. >> Whitaker: ROBERT LEE, ANOTHER
FORMER N.S.A. HACKER, IS THE CO-FOUNDER OF DRAGOS, A CYBERSECURITY COMPANY. HE'S KNOWN AS A WIZARD OF THE
DARK ARTS OF CYBER WAR, SPECIALIZING IN THE DEFENSE OF CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE. IN 2015, HE INVESTIGATED AN
INCIDENT IN UKRAINE, THE MOST DESTRUCTIVE CYBERATTACK ON CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE THE WORLD HAD EVER SEEN.
WHAT- WHAT'D YOU FIND? >> Lee: THE RUSSIAN STATE BROKE INTO THREE DIFFERENT POWER COMPANIES ACROSS UKRAINE
PROBABLY ABOUT SIX MONTHS AHEAD OF THE ACTUAL ATTACK. SO, THEY BROKE IN OVER THE SUMMER, GOT INTO POSITION, AND
THEY STARTED LEARNING HOW TO OPERATE THOSE SYSTEMS. AND AS A RESULT, THEY DISCONNECTED OVER 60 SUBSTATIONS
ACROSS UKRAINE, AND CAUSED BLACKOUTS FOR AROUND 225,000 CUSTOMERS IN THE DEAD OF WINTER. >> Whitaker: IT WAS ALL DONE
REMOTELY FROM THIS BUILDING IN MOSCOW, BY HACKERS WITH THE MILITARY INTELLIGENCE AGENCY, THE G.R.U..
THE UKRAINIANS HAD TO SEND UTILITY WORKERS TO THE IMPAIRED SUBSTATIONS TO MANUALLY RESTART EACH ONE.
A YEAR LATER, LEE SAYS, G.R.U. HACKERS WERE BACK WITH A MUCH MORE SOPHISTICATED ATTACK- A PIECE OF MALWARE THAT COULD
CRIPPLE MULTIPLE TRANSMISSION STATIONS WITH ONE KEYSTROKE. WHAT DID IT MEAN THAT RUSSIA WAS ABLE TO DO THIS?
>> Lee: IT WAS A SHOCK TO EVERYBODY, BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF THEORY AROUND HOW YOU COULD DO THIS.
PEOPLE IN MY COMMUNITY ON THE CYBERSECURITY SIDE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR A LONG TIME ON, IT'S POSSIBLE.
BUT TO ACTUALLY SEE IT DEMONSTRATED IS A GIANT PROOF THAT YOU CAN DO IT. AND WE ALSO KNOW NOW, THEY'RE
BOLD ENOUGH TO DO IT. >> Whitaker: COULD THE RUSSIANS DO THE SAME THING HERE IN THE U.S.?
>> Lee: ABSOLUTELY. >> Whitaker: OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, LEE'S CYBERSECURITY COMPANY, DRAGOS, HAS TRACKED THE
SAME G.R.U. HACKING GROUP, KNOWN AMONG RESEARCHERS AS "SANDWORM," INSTALLING MALWARE AND PROBING POWER COMPANIES HERE IN THE U.S.
>> Lee: THERE WAS ABOUT A DOZEN POWER COMPANIES THAT ENDED UP GETTING COMPROMISED IN THE 2014-2015 TIME FRAME BY THE SAME
GROUP THAT ENDED UP TAKING DOWN THE ELECTRIC SYSTEM IN UKRAINE. >> Whitaker: IN THE SUMMER OF 2017, RUSSIAN HACKERS LAUNCHED A
MORE BRAZEN, AND POTENTIALLY MUCH MORE DANGEROUS ATTACK, THIS TIME ON PETRO RABIGH, A MASSIVE OIL REFINERY ALONG THE RED SEA
IN SAUDI ARABIA. ON A FRIDAY NIGHT IN AUGUST, A SAFETY SYSTEM TRIGGERED THE WHOLE PLANT TO SHUT DOWN.
JULIAN GUTMANIS WAS WORKING CYBERSECURITY FOR THE SAUDI OIL GIANT ARAMCO, AND RUSHED TO THE SCENE TO INVESTIGATE.
FROM WHAT YOU SAW, YOU- YOU WERE ALARMED? >> Julian Gutmanis: AT THAT STAGE, YES, YEP.
LIKE, WHY IS SOMEBODY GOING AFTER THE SAFETY SYSTEMS ON A WEEKEND, AT NIGHT? IT'S JUST NOT NORMAL.
>> Whitaker: WHAT GUTMANIS DISCOVERED STOPPED HIM IN HIS TRACKS: SOMEONE HAD HACKED INTO THE EMERGENCY SHUTDOWN SYSTEM
AND INSTALLED SUSPICIOUS COMPUTER FILES. >> Gutmanis: THE FILES WERE CREATED AND EXECUTED, YOU KNOW,
MOMENTARILY BEFORE THE INITIAL OUTAGE THAT WE RESPONDED TO. >> Whitaker: YOU WERE ABLE TO TRACE THAT BACK?
>> Gutmanis: FORENSICALLY, YEAH. I CAME ACROSS A FUNCTION THAT THEY'D DEFINED IN THERE CALLED "EXECUTE EXPLOIT."
HAIRS STOOD UP ON MY ARMS AND I'M LIKE, "THIS IS PROBABLY SOMETHING REALLY SERIOUS." YOU DON'T NORMALLY HAVE THE WORD
"EXPLOIT" IN- IN NORMAL, KIND OF VENDOR SOFTWARE. >> Whitaker: SO, THAT- THAT SET OFF ALARM BELLS?
>> Gutmanis: OH, HUGE ALARM BELLS. AND IT REALLY KIND OF MADE US FOCUS ON, "HOW DID THESE FILES
GET THERE? WHERE DID THEY COME FROM? WHO CREATED THEM? AND- AND WHAT DO WE DO?
WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TO DO?" >> Whitaker: GUTMANIS NOW WORKS FOR ROBERT LEE AT DRAGOS, WHO ALSO INVESTIGATED THE HACK.
LEE SAYS THE HACKERS COULD HAVE SET OFF EXPLOSIONS AND RELEASED TOXIC CHEMICALS WITH THE MALWARE THEY IMPLANTED, KNOWN AS TRITON.
>> Lee: IT'S THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY WE'VE EVER SEEN A CYBERATTACK EXPLICITLY DESIGNED TO KILL PEOPLE.
IT TARGETS SAFETY SYSTEMS, AND THESE SAFETY SYSTEMS ARE ONLY THERE TO PROTECT LIVES. SO, GOING AFTER THAT SYSTEM
EXPLICITLY, THE ONLY REASON TO DO IT IS TO HURT PEOPLE. WHAT HAPPENED IS, THEY MADE A SMALL ERROR IN THE SOFTWARE,
THAT INSTEAD OF ACTUALLY CAUSING THE EFFECTS THEY WERE LOOKING TO ACHIEVE, LIKE AN EXPLOSION WHERE YOU'D KILL PEOPLE, INSTEAD, IT
SIMPLY SHUT DOWN THE PLANT. >> Lisa Monaco: THE RUSSIANS POSE A SERIOUS AND PERSISTENT THREAT.
>> Whitaker: AS THE SECOND HIGHEST RANKING OFFICIAL IN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL LISA MONACO
OVERSEES THE F.B.I. AND ITS 1,000 STRONG CYBER DIVISION. THREE WEEKS AGO, HER DEPARTMENT UNSEALED TWO SECRET INDICTMENTS.
ONE DESCRIBED HOW TRITON WORKED, AND IDENTIFIED THIS MAN, EVGENY GLADKIKH, FROM A RUSSIAN MINISTRY OF DEFENSE RESEARCH
INSTITUTE, AS ONE OF THE HACKERS. THE SECOND INDICTMENT SAYS BETWEEN 2012-2017, THESE THREE
RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE AGENTS AND ACCOMPLICES HACKED HUNDREDS OF ENERGY COMPANIES AROUND THE WORLD, AND MANAGED TO GET INSIDE
THE COMPUTER NETWORK AT A NUCLEAR POWER PLANT IN KANSAS. >> Monaco: THIS WAS HISTORICAL ACTIVITY, BUT IT IS VERY MUCH
THE TYPE OF ACTIVITY THAT WE ARE WARNING ABOUT TODAY, WHEN IT COMES TO RUSSIA'S RESPONSE TO THE WORLD'S RESPONSE TO THE
HORROR IN UKRAINE. >> Whitaker: WHAT ABOUT RIGHT NOW? ARE YOU SEEING RUSSIAN ACTIVITY,
RUSSIAN PLOTS TO DISRUPT OUR INFRASTRUCTURE? >> Monaco: WE ARE SEEING RUSSIAN STATE ACTORS SCANNING, PROBING,
LOOKING FOR OPPORTUNITIES, LOOKING FOR WEAKNESSES IN OUR SYSTEMS, ON CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE, ON BUSINESSES.
THINK OF IT, BILL, AS A BURGLAR GOING AROUND TRYING TO JIGGLE THE LOCK IN YOUR HOUSE DOOR TO SEE IF IT'S OPEN.
AND WE'RE SEEING THAT. THOSE WHO VIOLATE OUR LAWS SHOULD EXPECT TO FACE JUSTICE. >> Whitaker: EARLIER THIS MONTH,
MONACO JOINED ATTORNEY GENERAL MERRICK GARLAND AND F.B.I. DIRECTOR CHRISTOPHER WRAY TO ANNOUNCE THE U.S. HAD
CONDUCTED A BOLD OPERATION: STOPPING RUSSIAN HACKERS AS THEY WERE PREPARING TO STRIKE. >> Monaco: WE'RE TALKING
MILITARY INTELLIGENCE ACTORS, DEPLOYING MALWARE, MALICIOUS CODE, ON THOUSANDS OF COMPUTERS IN HUNDREDS OF COUNTRIES.
WE'RE SEEING THEM DEPLOY THAT CODE AND TAKE CONTROL OF THESE COMPUTERS. IT'S LIKE AN ARMY OF INFECTED
COMPUTERS THAT, WITH A SINGLE COMMAND, CAN BE DEPLOYED TO DO EVERYTHING FROM GATHERING INFORMATION, STEALING
INFORMATION, AND SOMETIMES TO HAVE DESTRUCTIVE EFFECT. AND WE WERE ABLE TO WORK WITH THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO UNDERSTAND
IT, TO BE ABLE TO USE UNIQUE INVESTIGATIVE TOOLS TO TRACE IT BACK TO ATTACKERS AT KEYBOARDS. AND THEN, USE OUR TOOLS TO GO
IN, NOT ONLY REMOVE THAT MALWARE, BUT AGAIN, TO LOCK THOSE DOORS, TO KEEP THE ATTACKER FROM COMING BACK.
>> Dmitri Alperovitch: THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT WE HAVE TAKEN THAT ACTION AGAINST SOMETHING THAT THE RUSSIAN
MILITARY HAS DONE, PREEMPTIVELY. BEFORE THEY LAUNCHED THE ATTACK. WE TOOK IT DOWN. >> Whitaker: DMITIRI ALPEROVITCH
IS WELL ACQUAINTED WITH PUTIN'S TACTICS. AS CO-FOUNDER OF THE HEAVYWEIGHT CYBERSECURITY COMPANY
CROWDSTRIKE, HE HELPED TRACE THE 2016 HACK OF THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE BACK TO THE G.R.U. IN MOSCOW.
HE CURRENTLY IS A MEMBER OF THE HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISORY COUNCIL. THE MOSCOW BORN ALPEROVITCH HAS
A THEORY WHY PUTIN HASN'T LAUNCHED A FULL-SCALE CYBERATTACK ON THE U.S., YET. >> Alperovitch: HE THINKS THAT A
VICTORY THAT HE CAN PULL OUT IS STILL ACHIEVABLE, AND THAT AS HE CAN MAKE A DEAL WITH EUROPEANS AT LEAST AND POSSIBLY THE
AMERICANS TO TAKE THE SANCTIONS OFF. I THINK HE'S MISTAKEN ON THAT, BUT I THINK AT LEAST UNTIL HE
TRIES THAT, HE'S UNLIKELY TO LAUNCH THE CYBERATTACKS. >> Whitaker: SO, WHY DO YOU THINK PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS SAID A
CYBERATTACK FROM RUSSIA IS COMING? >> Alperovitch: WELL, I THINK THE REALITY IS THAT THOSE
SANCTIONS WILL NOT COME OFF, THAT THE ECONOMIC PRESSURE ON RUSIA WILL CONTINUE. AND THEY ARE GOING TO START
RETALIATING FOR THAT IN CYBERSPACE ONCE IT HITS THEM THAT THIS IS PERMANENT, THAT THIS IS NOT GOING AWAY.
AND THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO LOOK FOR WAYS TO PRESS US ECONOMICALLY IN RETALIATION. AND CYBER IS A PERFECT WAY FOR
THEM TO DO SO. >> Whitaker: PERFECT BECAUSE CYBER IS A BATTLEFIELD WHERE RUSSIANS HAVE AN ADVANTAGE:
A TARGET-RICH ENVIRONMENT IN THE UNITED STATES. >> Alperovitch: THE REALITY IS THAT WE HAVE WAY TOO MANY
TARGETS. IF YOU LOOK PARTICULARLY IN OUR ENERGY SECTOR, YOU HAVE REGIONAL UTILITIES, YOU HAVE MINOR ENERGY
PROCESSING COMPANIES, STORAGE COMPANIES, PIPELINE COMPANIES. AND MAKE NO MISTAKE, BILL, THE CYBER ACTORS THAT THEY HAVE ARE
TOP NOTCH. AND THEY'VE DEMONSTRATED THAT TIME AND TIME AGAIN. >> Whitaker: WE HAVE SAID IN THE
PAST THAT "IF YOU DO THIS TO US, WE WILL RESPOND IN KIND." WOULD WE? >> Alperovitch: WE HAVE TO LET
HIM KNOW THAT YOU WILL NOT TOUCH OUR CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE WITHOUT A RESPONSE. AND THE WAY TO DO THAT, I THINK,
IS THROUGH A CYBER OPERATION THAT CAN DEMONSTRATE OUR CAPABILITIES WITHOUT LASTING DAMAGE.
ONE OF THE WAYS YOU CAN DO THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, IS BY TAKING RUSSIA OFF THE INTERNET FOR A FEW HOURS.
IT WON'T CAUSE ANY LASTING IMPACT, BUT IT WILL DEMONSTRATE THE POWER OF THE UNITED STATES CYBER COMMAND, WHAT WE CAN DO TO
HIS ECONOMY BY DISCONNECTING HIM, EFFECTIVELY, FROM THE INTERNET. >> Whitaker: WE CAN DO THAT?
>> Alperovitch: WE CAN ABSOLUTELY DO THAT. AND WE'LL LET HIM KNOW THAT IF HE KEEPS GOING, IF HE KEEPS
ATTACKING US, WE CAN MAKE THAT PERMANENT. >> Stahl: VOLKSWAGEN IS NECK- AND-NECK WITH TOYOTA AS THE
WORLD'S LARGEST CAR-MAKER. THE GERMAN COMPANY, WHICH GAVE US THE BELOVED BEETLE LAST CENTURY, RAKED IN OVER
$250 BILLION LAST YEAR, SELLING NEARLY NINE MILLION CARS. STILL, IT CAN FEEL MORE LIKE AN OBSTACLE COURSE THAN VICTORY
TOUR FOR HERBERT DIESS, WHO'S BEEN RUNNING VOLKSWAGEN FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS. THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE CARS
HE SELLS RUN ON GASOLINE, A GROWING PROBLEM FOR THE PLANET-- AND NOW TO DRIVERS' WALLETS-- BUT HIS MOST IMMEDIATE PROBLEM
IS RUSSIA'S INVASION OF UKRAINE, JUST A FEW HOURS EAST OF VOLKSWAGEN'S HEADQUARTERS.
( EXPLOSION ) VOLKSWAGEN IS FEELING THE REPERCUSSIONS OF THE WAR IN EUROPE.
IN MARCH, UKRAINE WAS FORCED TO SHUTTER FACTORIES THAT MADE CABLING SYSTEMS, SO ESSENTIAL TO VOLKSWAGEN THAT C.E.O. HERBERT
DIESS HAD TO IDLE SEVERAL ASSEMBLY-LINES IN GERMANY. WHAT DID THEY SUPPLY YOU WITH THAT YOU'RE NOT GETTING?
>> Herbert Diess: MOST OF IT, WIRING HARNESSES AND ELECTRICS, ELECTRONICS COMPONENTS. >> Stahl: ARE THOSE KEY?
HOW HAS THAT AFFECTED-- >> Diess: SOME ARE REALLY KEY, SOME ARE REALLY KEY. >> Stahl: SO, YOU'RE TAKING A
HIT? >> Diess: DEFINITELY WE ARE TAKING A HIT, YEAH. >> Stahl: THEY'RE TAKING ANOTHER
HIT TO THEIR BUSINESS BECAUSE, TO HELP SANCTION PUTIN, DIESS SUSPENDED VOLKSWAGEN'S OPERATIONS IN RUSSIA.
HOW CONCERNED ARE YOU THAT PUTIN MIGHT SEIZE YOUR FACTORIES? >> Deiss: IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND THE SITUATION.
I THINK IT WILL DEPEND A LOT ON HOW FAR ARE WE GETTING BACK TO NEGOTIATIONS. >> Stahl: VOLKSWAGEN PULLED OUT
OF RUSSIA VERY EARLY. I WONDER HOW HARD A DECISION THAT WAS FOR YOU? >> Diess: IT IS QUITE A HARD
DECISION FOR US BECAUSE WE HAVE ABOUT 7,000 PEOPLE-- LOYAL PEOPLE WORKING FOR US IN RUSSIA. WE HAVE THREE PLANTS THERE.
WE HAVE CUSTOMERS SINCE MANY YEARS, SO IT'S VERY DIFFICULT DECISION. BUT STRONG SANCTIONS ARE
PROBABLY THE ONLY MEASURES WE HAVE CURRENTLY, BECAUSE WHAT WE SEE IN EUROPE IS REALLY AN APPALLING WAR.
>> Stahl: HE FELT THE APPALLING INVASION OF UKRAINE REQUIRED HIM TO TAKE ACTION. TRADITIONALLY, VOLKSWAGEN HAS
BEEN MINDFUL OF ITS MORAL RESPONSIBILITY, GIVEN ITS PAST. THE COMPANY WAS FOUNDED BY THE NAZIS, WHO WANTED TO CREATE A
"PEOPLE'S CAR"- "VOLKSWAGEN." THAT'S HITLER IN THE BEETLE. DO YOU THINK THAT VOLKSWAGEN HAD A SORT OF SPECIAL OBLIGATION TO
ACT IN THIS CASE, GIVEN THE COMPANIES' NAZI PAST? >> Diess: I WOULDN'T GO SO FAR, BUT YES, WE HAVE THIS PAST, AND
PROBABLY WE ARE MORE CONSCIOUS ABOUT THE-- SUCH THINGS. >> Stahl: SCENES LIKE THIS IN UKRAINE HAVE THE EUROPEAN UNION
FINALLY MOVING CLOSER TO EMBARGOING RUSSIAN OIL. GERMANY IMPORTS OVER HALF OF ITS GAS AND A THIRD OF ITS OIL
FROMRUSSIA. IF THE SPIGOT IS OFF, WHAT'S THIS GOING TO DO TO THE ECONOMIES IN EUROPE?
>> Diess: A LONG-LASTING WAR COULD DAMAGE EUROPE'S AND GERMANY'S WELFARE QUITE CONSIDERABLY, NO?
THE IMPACT COULD BE QUITE SEVERE TO EUROPE. >> Stahl: DO YOU THINK THAT IT'S TIME TO GO TO IRAN, AND GO TO
VENEZUELA, AND GO TO OTHER COUNTRIES THAT, YOU KNOW, THE WEST HAS NOT BEEN DEALING WITH? >> Diess: SHORT-TERM, POSSIBLY,
BUT LONG-TERM, WE HAVE TO GO PROBABLY AT EVEN HIGHER SPEED TO RENEWABLES, NO? TO WIND AND SOLAR ENERGY.
>> Stahl: AND, HE SAYS, TO ELECTRIC CARS. DIESS WANTS VOLKSWAGEN TO MAKE ELECTRIC VERSIONS OF ALL ITS
BRANDS. AND THERE ARE MANY, BECAUSE VOLKWSWAGEN DOESN'T JUST MAKE VOLKSWAGENS-- IT ALSO MAKES
HIGH-END AUDI, AND PORSCHE; SUPERCAR LAMBORGHINI; LUXURY BENTLEY; AND EVEN DUCATI MOTORCYCLES.
AT LEAST 100 MODELS IN ALL, INCLUDING SEVERAL ELECTRIC CARS. AUDI. >> Diess: AUDI.
>> Stahl: PORSCHE. >> Diess: PORSCHE TAYCAN. >> Stahl: ALL ELECTRIC HERE. >> Diess: ID.4.
ALL ELECTRIC. >> Stahl: WE MET DIESS LAST MONTH IN AUSTIN, TEXAS. HE WANTED TO SHOW US THE NEW
ALL-ELECTRIC PORSCHE. WE DISCOVERED THAT DIESS LIKES TO SURPRISE YOU-- OH MY GOD!
--EVEN JOLT YOU, AS WHEN HE TOOK ME FROM 0-60 IN A COUPLE SECONDS-- OH, OH!
--OR WHEN HE DELIVERED A SPEECH TO EMPLOYEES, ON AN ELECTRIC SURFBOARD? A METAPHOR, PERHAPS, FOR
PROPELLING THE COMPANY INTO A NEW ERA. IN THE U.S., FOCUSING ON ELECTRIC S.U.V.s LIKE THE ID.4.
VOLKSWAGEN IS RECONFIGURING ITS PLANT WITH 4,000 WORKERS IN CHATTANOOGA, TENNESSEE, WHERE THEY MAKE GASOLINE S.U.V.s,
TO ALSO START MAKING THE ALL-ELECTRIC ID.4. AND SCOTT KEOGH, HEAD OF VOLKSWAGEN AMERICA, SAYS THEY'RE
ABOUT TO IMPORT A NEW SEDAN LIKE THEIR OLD PASSAT. >> Scott Keogh: YEAH, BUT A SUPER COOL, ALL-ELECTRIC, CRAZY
HIGH-TECH PASSAT, IF YOU WILL. AND I THINK THE NEXT ONE AFTER THAT WOULD BE AN S.U.V. BIGGER THAN THIS ONE.
>> Stahl: UNDER C.E.O. DIESS, VOLKSWAGEN IS MAKING AN EXTRA EFFORT IN THE AMERICAN MARKET. IN THE '60s AND '70s, EVERYBODY
IN THE UNITED STATES KNEW ABOUT VOLKSWAGEN-- THE BEETLE, THE MINIBUS. BUT SINCE THEN, VOLKSWAGEN
HAS NOT DONE WELL IN THE UNITED STATES. WHY IS THAT, DO YOU THINK? >> Diess: IT'S DIFFICULT-- FIRST
OF ALL, I HAVE TO ACCEPT, WE LOST GROUND HERE IN THE U.S. I THINK WE-- WE DIDN'T TAKE THE U.S. CUSTOMER SERIOUSLY ENOUGH,
NO? WE TRIED TO SELL THE EUROPEAN PRODUCT HERE IN THE U.S. >> Stahl: VOLKSWAGEN DOES
BRILLIANTLY IN CHINA, IN EUROPE, IN LATIN AMERICA. I MEAN, WHY PUT THE EFFORT HERE? >> Diess: THIS IS SUCH AN
IMPORTANT MARKET. AND THERE ALWAYS HAVE BEEN DISCUSSIONS, ALTHOUGH INTERNALLY, "SHOULDN'T WE
GIVE UP THE U.S. BECAUSE WE ARE LOSING MONEY? WE ARE GOING NOWHERE." >> Stahl: EXACTLY.
>> Diess: NO, WE HAVE TO COME BACK IN THE U.S. WE HAVE TO BECOME RELEVANT IN THE U.S.
AND WE ARE IN THE RIGHT WAY. >> Stahl: THE RIGHT WAY, HE SAYS, INCLUDES ELECTRIFYING A NEW VERSION OF THE MICRO-BUS
THAT WAS POPULAR AMONG HIPPIES AND SURFERS IN THE '60s, CALLING IT THE ID.BUZZ. THIS IS THE NEW ONE.
>> Diess: THIS IS THE NEW ONE. >> Stahl: THE BUZZ. AND THIS IS THE OLD BUS? >> Diess: YES.
EXACTLY. 70 YEARS IN BETWEEN. YEAH. A LOT OF ADVANCEMENTS IN
TECHNOLOGY, MOSTLY IN SAFETY. >> Stahl: DIESS WAS IN AUSTIN TO INTRODUCE THE BUZZ TO A NEW GENERATION AT THE SOUTH-BY-
SOUTHWEST FESTIVAL. HE THINKS TAKING WHAT WAS COOL IN THE 20th CENTURY AND ELECTRIFYING IT WILL HELP V.W.
RECAPTURE THE AMERICAN MARKET. YOU KNOW, IN THE UNITED STATES, THE BEST-SELLING VEHICLES ARE TRUCKS.
AS FAR AS I KNOW, YOU DO NOT HAVE PLANS TO MAKE AN ELECTRIC TRUCK FOR THE AMERICAN MARKET. >> Diess: NOT YET.
>> Stahl: NOT YET? HE'S COMMITTED TO HAVING AT LEAST HALF HIS ENTIRE FLEET BE ELECTRIC BY THE END OF THE
DECADE, AND TO ELIMINATE DOZENS OF COMBUSTION ENGINE MODELS. >> Diess: WE HAVE TO DE-CARBONIZE THE WORLD, BECAUSE
CLIMATE CHANGE IS HAPPENING. AND TO DE-CARBONIZE THE AUTOMOTIVE SECTOR, THE ONLY WAY, FEASIBLE WAY FORWARD IS
ELECTRIFICATION. >> Stahl: YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO CHANGE THE ENGINE, THE TRANSMISSION--
>> Diess: YES. >> Stahl: EVEN THE DESIGN. AND THEY SAY OLD DOGS DON'T LEARN NEW TRICKS.
>> Diess: THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE TRYING. > Stahl: THE-- EXACTLY. EXACTLY.
>> Diess: YEAH. IT IS A BIG CHALLENGE. AND HISTORICALLY THERE HAVEN'T BEEN TOO MANY CASES WHERE THE
SUCCESSFUL COMPANIES IN THE OLD WORLD COULD DEMONSTRATE THAT THEY ARE STILL SUCCESSFUL IN THE NEW WORLD.
>> Stahl: AND YOU HAVE SO MANY COMPETITORS IN THE ELECTRIFICATION AREA. >> Diess: YEAH.
IT'S REALLY THE NEW COMPETITORS WHICH ARE ESPECIALLY CHALLENGING FOR US, NO? COMING FROM SOFTWARE BACKGROUND,
BATTERY BACKGROUND, APPLE BEING SAID TO ENTERING AT SOME STAGE, NO? THOSE ARE PROBABLY THE
COMPETITORS WE HAVE TO TAKE MOST SERIOUSLY. >> Stahl: TO COMPETE, VOLKSWAGEN IS TRYING TO RECRUIT THOUSANDS
OF SOFTWARE AND BATTERY ENGINEERS WORLDWIDE. THEY JUST OPENED A NEW BATTERY FACILITY IN CHATTANOOGA.
THEY DON'T MAKE THE BATTERY CELLS YET-- A KOREAN SUPPLIER DOES THAT. FOR NOW, VOLKSWAGEN JUST
ARRANGES THEM TO FIT IN THEIR CARS. >> Keogh: WE WILL GET INTO THE BATTERY BUSINESS.
WE WILL BUILD MORE PLANTS IN AMERICA. BECAUSE IT'S A CORE NECESSITY. >> Stahl: IF YOU'RE A CAR
COMPANY, YOU'RE A BATTERY COMPANY. >> Keogh: YOU'RE A BATTERY COMPANY.
YOU'RE A SOFTWARE COMPANY. >> Stahl: THE RACE IS ON BETWEEN TECH COMPANIES AND TRADITIONAL CARMAKERS.
IRONICALLY, VOLKSWAGEN GOT A HEAD START FROM A SCANDAL IN 2015 THAT ALL BUT FORCED IT TO PIVOT TO ELECTRIC.
AT THAT TIME, OVER HALF THE VOLKSWAGEN CARS SOLD IN EUROPE RAN ON DIESEL, WHICH WAS PROMOTED AS A CLEAN ENERGY
SOLUTION TO LOWER EMISSIONS. BUT THEN THE COMPANY WAS CAUGHT SELLING DIESEL VEHICLES WITH SOFTWARE DESIGNED TO CHEAT ON
EMISSIONS TESTS. 11 MILLION CARS WERE RECALLED, SOME SEEN HERE. IT COST VOLKSWAGEN OVER
$30 BILLION, AND SENT SOME EXECUTIVES TO PRISON. DIESS WAS NEW TO THE COMPANY AT THE TIME.
DO YOU THINK PEOPLE HAVE FORGOTTEN IT? >> Diess: NO, NO, NO, NO. IT'S-- YOU KNOW, THIS IS A
LONG-LASTING THING. AND WE HAVE TO CONVINCE OUR CUSTOMERS THAT WE ARE WORTHWHILE CONSIDERING, AND WE ARE
DELIVERING A GOOD PRODUCT-- >> Stahl: AND HONEST. >> Diess: AND HONEST. >> Stahl: TO TRY TO SAVE THE
COMPANY, THEY DECIDED TO TURN AWAY FROM DIESEL AND TO ELECTRIC. THEY ALSO AGREED IN A SETTLEMENT
WITH THE U.S. JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO INVEST $2 BILLION IN GREEN TECH, THAT INCLUDES BUILDING A LARGE NETWORK OF FAST-CHARGING
STATIONS CALLED "ELECTRIFY AMERICA." THEY DROVE US TO ONE NEAR AUSTIN.
>> Ryan: SO, YOU JUST PLUG IT IN HERE, GET IT IN, CLICK. AND THEN YOUR VEHICLE'S CHARGING.
AND THEN JUST PUSH THAT NOZZLE AND PULL IT BACK. >> Stahl: BUT WHEN I TRIED-- IT'S NOT EASY.
OKAY, SOMETHING'S WRONG. I CAN'T DO IT! >> Ryan: SURE YOU CAN, THERE YOU GO!
>> Stahl: CHARGING PROBLEMS MAY BE THE LEAST OF THE CHALLENGES FACING HERBERT DIESS. THE BUSINESS MODEL OF GLOBAL
COMPANIES LIKE VOLKSWAGEN IS COMING UNDONE AS THE PANDEMIC HAS STRAINED LONG SUPPLY LINES, LEADING TO SHORTAGES IN KEY
COMPONENTS LIKE SEMICONDUCTORS. AND IN FEBRUARY, THE COMPANY WAS STUNG BY THE PERILS OF SHIPPING WHEN A FIRE SANK A CARGO OF
4,000 OF ITS CARS. AS IF ALL THAT'S NOT ENOUGH, COVID IS DISRUPTING VOLKSWAGEN IN ITS BIGGEST MARKET.
WHAT PERCENT OF YOUR SALES COME OUT OF CHINA? >> Diess: 40%, ROUGHLY. >> Stahl: ALMOST HALF!
>> Diess: YES. >> Stahl: BUT VOLKSWAGEN'S OPERATION IN CHINA HAS COME UNDER HEAVY CRITICISM BECAUSE
ONE OF ITS PLANTS IS IN THE HOME PROVINCE OF THE UYGHUR MUSLIM MINORITY. THE AREA WHERE YOUR FACTORY IS
IS WHERE UYGHURS ARE BEING "REEDUCATED." THEY'RE IN DETENTION CAMPS. DO YOU WORRY THAT THE MESSAGE IS
SENT THAT YOU'RE OKAY WITH WHAT'S GOING ON IN THAT PART OF THE WORLD? >> Diess: I THINK THAT'S NOT THE
MESSAGE WE-- WE ARE SENDING, NO? WE CAN MAKE SURE WITH OUR PEOPLE THAT THERE IS NO FORCED LABOR, THAT PEOPLE ARE TREATED EQUALLY
IN OUR PLANT-- >> Stahl: YOU'RE SURE OF THAT? >> Diess: YEAH, ABSOLUTELY SURE. >> Stahl: DO YOU FEEL, IN ANY
WAY, ANY PRESSURE TO KEEP THAT FIRM OPEN FROM THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT? >> Diess: WE WANT TO KEEP IT
OPEN. I THINK LOCAL PEOPLE ARE MUCH BETTER OFF IF WE STAY. BEFORE COVID, I HAVE EVEN PLAN
TO VISIT THE PLANT MYSELF, YEAH? >> Stahl: WILL YOU DO THAT? >> Diess: YEAH, I WILL DO THAT. I WILL DEFINITELY VISIT THE
PLANT. >> Stahl: FOR ALL THE OBSTACLES IN GETTING ELECTRIC CARS OFF THE GROUND- WAR, PANDEMIC, ENGINEER
SHORTAGES- ONE THING IS WORKING IN VOLKSWAGEN'S FAVOR: RISING GAS PRICES MAKE ELECTRIC VEHICLES MORE APPEALING.
LAST YEAR, HERBERT DIESS SOLD MORE ELECTRIC CARS OF ALL TYPES THAN ANYONE, EXCEPT ELON MUSK. HOW CLOSE ARE YOU IN TERMS OF
SELLING ELECTRIC CARS WORLDWIDE, TO TESLA? >> Diess: WE ARE SECOND, YEAH, WORLDWIDE.
SO, TESLA IS AHEAD-- >> Stahl: BUT SECOND BY A MILE? OR CLOSE-- >> Diess: TESLA IS QUITE AHEAD
CURRENTLY, AND THEY'RE GROWING FAST, I HAVE TO ADMIT. HE IS TAKING MORE RISKS THAN WE CAN.
HE'S NOW BUILDING A PLANT IN BERLIN. IT'S 200 KILOMETERS FROM OUR PLANT.
>> Stahl: I SAW THAT. OH, MY GOODNESS. >> Diess: AND I THINK IT'S VERY HEALTHY FOR US, NO, TO HAVE A
NEW COMPETITOR-- >> Stahl: YOU DO? >> Diess: YES, DEFINITELY. >> Stahl: THERE WAS CRITICISM
FROM YOUR WORKERS THAT YOU'RE SETTING HIM UP AS THE BENCHMARK AND TALKING ABOUT IT, AND THEY DON'T LIKE IT.
>> Diess: JA, ACTUALLY, YOU'RE RIGHT. THEY DON'T LIKE IT. ( LAUGHS )
( TICKING )
>> Cooper: IF YOU'VE EVER HAD THE FANTASY OF SOARING OVER BUMPER-TO-BUMPER TRAFFIC IN A
FLYING VEHICLE, THAT MAY BE POSSIBLE SOONER THAN YOU THINK. NOT WITH A FLYING CAR, BUT WITH A BATTERY-POWERED AIRCRAFT
CALLED AN eVTOL, A CLUNKY ACRONYM FOR ELECTRIC VERTICAL TAKEOFF AND LANDING. DOZENS OF COMPANIES ARE SPENDING
BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO MAKE eVTOLs THAT WILL OPERATE LIKE AIR TAXIS, TAKING OFF AND LANDING FROM WHAT ARE CALLED
VERTIPORTS ON THE TOPS OF BUILDINGS, PARKING GARAGES, OR HELIPADS IN CONGESTED CITIES. eVTOLs PROMISE A FASTER, SAFER
AND GREENER MODE OF TRANSPORTATION, POTENTIALLY CHANGING THE WAY WE WORK AND LIVE.
SOUND TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE? WE WENT FOR A JOYRIDE TO FIND OUT. >> Jace McCown: I WILL ARM THE
AIRCRAFT IF YOU ARE READY. >> Cooper: YEAH, TOTALLY. >> CONFIRMED CLEAR ABOVE. >> Cooper: IF THIS LOOKS LIKE AN
OVERSIZED DRONE I'M ABOUT TO TAKE OFF IN, THAT'S PRETTY MUCH WHAT IT IS. >> McCown: BREAKING GROUND RIGHT
THERE. >> Cooper: IT'S A SINGLE-SEAT eVTOL CALLED HEXA, POWERED BY 18 PROPELLERS, EACH WITH ITS OWN
BATTERY. NO JET FUEL REQUIRED. >> McCown: YOU ARE IN CONTROL. >> Cooper: ONBOARD COMPUTERS
AUTOMATICALLY ADJUST FOR ALTITUDE AND WIND-- YOU CAN REALLY FEEL THE WIND UP HERE.
--SO ALL I HAD TO DO WAS USE A JOYSTICK TO CONTROL HEXA'S MOVEMENT AND SPEED. IT TOOK ABOUT 30 MINUTES OF
PRE-FLIGHT TRAINING TO GET THE HANG OF IT. >> McCown: USE THAT YAW TO ROTATE 90 DEGREES.
WONDERFUL. >> Cooper: HEXA IS STILL IN ITS TESTING PHASE, SO I HAD TO STAY CLOSE TO CHIEF PILOT JACE McCOWN
AND HIS GROUND CREW. BUT THEY SAY IT'S FLOWN UP TO 90 FEET IN THE AIR AND 45 MILES PER HOUR.
>> McCown: WHENEVER YOU'RE READY, YOU CAN COME BACK TO HOME. >> Cooper: THE BATTERIES LAST UP
TO 15 MINUTES. I WAS GOING TO TRY TO LAND OVER THE CAMERAS. >> McCown: OKAY, YEAH,
ABSOLUTELY. >> Cooper: TO LAND, I MANEUVERED HEXA INTO POSITION, PRESSED A BUTTON, AND THE COMPUTERS DID
THE REST. >> McCown: RIGHT THERE, YOU ARE ON THE GROUND. AND THE PROPS ARE SPINNING DOWN.
>> Cooper: THAT IS COOL. ( LAUGHS ) I CAN'T STOP LAUGHING. >> Matt Chasen: PIECE OF CAKE,
RIGHT? >> Cooper: THAT WAS AWESOME. >> Chasen: WAS IT FUN? >> Cooper: THAT WAS SO MUCH FUN.
>> Chasen: YES! I LOVE IT. >> Cooper: WOW. I SO JUST WANT TO, LIKE, TAKE
OFF WITH IT. >> Chasen: I KNOW. >> Cooper: MATT CHASEN IS C.E.O. OF AUSTIN-BASED LIFT AIRCRAFT,
WHICH MAKES HEXA. HE ENVISIONS A FUTURE WHERE IT'S USED BY COMMUTERS TO SKIP RUSH HOUR TRAFFIC.
>> Chasen: YOU CAN FLY TEN MILES IN TEN MINUTES INSTEAD OF SPENDING OVER AN HOUR ON THE ROADS DURING RUSH HOUR
CONGESTION. >> Cooper: WOULD IT BE SOMETHING THAT AN INDIVIDUAL THEN IN THE FUTURE OWNS AND FLIES FROM THEIR
HOUSE TO SOMEWHERE? >> Chasen: WE DON'T SEE INDIVIDUAL OWNERSHIP AS VERY PRACTICAL.
THESE ARE-- THESE ARE VERY EXPENSIVE AIRCRAFT. WE SEE PUTTING FLEETS OF AIRCRAFT AT LOCATIONS WHERE WE
PROVIDE MAINTENANCE, WE PROVIDE TRAINING, AND PEOPLE CAN COME IN AND BASICALLY PAY PER FLIGHT. >> Cooper: BUT THAT'S STILL A
LONG WAY OFF. FEDERAL, STATE, AND LOCAL REGULATORS-- NOT TO MENTION THE NATION'S AIRSPACE-- AREN'T
READY FOR HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF COMMUTERS PILOTING THEIR OWN eVTOLs IN THE SKIES OVER CONGESTED CITIES.
SO, TO GIVE PEOPLE A TASTE OF THE FUTURE NOW, CHASEN DESIGNED HEXA AS AN ULTRA-LIGHT VEHICLE, WHICH MEANS IT DOESN'T HAVE TO
GO THROUGH THE FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION'S COMPLEX CERTIFICATION PROCESS, BUT ALSO CAN'T FLY OVER POPULATED AREAS.
CHASEN PLANS TO START OFFERING RIDES TO PAYING CUSTOMERS FOR $250 BY THE END OF THIS YEAR. THE INITIAL MARKET YOU SEE IS
ESSENTIALLY JOY RIDES FOR PEOPLE? >> Chasen: YEAH, I THINK THERE'S A HUGE MARKET FOR PEOPLE TO
JUST EXPERIENCE THE THRILL AND JOY OF FLIGHT. >> Cooper: AROUND THE WORLD, ALL KINDS OF eVTOLs ARE BEING
DEVELOPED; CARGO CARRIERS, AIR AMBULANCES, AND A WHOLE LOT OF AIR TAXIS-- SOME WITH A PILOT, SOME WITHOUT.
THE AIR FORCE IS INVESTING. SO IS AIRBUS AND AMERICAN AIRLINES. AND DOZENS OF COMPANIES ARE
ALREADY WORKING WITH THE F.A.A. IT'S NOT THE FLYING CARS THAT SCIENCE FICTION MOVIES ANTICIPATED?
>> Billy Nolen: NO, BUT WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, I-- I LOOK BACK OVER THE ARC OF MY OWN CAREER HAVING BEEN A PILOT FOR
42 YEARS, AND I'M JUST AMAZED BY THE AMOUNT OF INNOVATION THAT HAS TAKEN PLACE. >> Cooper: BILLY NOLEN WAS HEAD
OF SAFETY FOR THE F.A.A. BEFORE BEING NAMED ACTING ADMINISTRATOR LAST MONTH. HOW DIFFICULT A CERTIFICATION
PROCESS IS THERE? BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF MOVING PARTS TO THIS. >> Nolen: FIRST, WE HAVE TO
CERTIFY THE DESIGN OF THE-- OF THE AIRCRAFT ITSELF. AND THEN WE LOOK AT HOW IT WILL OPERATE.
IS IT PILOTED? IS IT AUTONOMOUS? WE LOOK AT WHERE IT WILL OPERATE.
SO, THAT MEANS, HOW DO WE PUT IT WITHIN OUR NATION'S AIR SPACE? SO, ONCE IT'S MET THAT SAFETY THRESHOLD, AND ONLY UNTIL IT'S
MET THAT SAFETY THRESHOLD, WILL WE BE-- BE PREPARED TO CERTIFY IT. >> Cooper: SOME eVTOL COMPANIES
ARE WELL ON THEIR WAY. WE FLEW IN A GAS-GUZZLING HELICOPTER WITH ONE OF THE FRONTRUNNERS IN THE AIR TAXI
ARMS RACE, JOEBEN BEVIRT, C.E.O. OF JOBY AVIATION. HE TOOK US TO THIS REMOTE FACILITY IN CALIFORNIA, WHERE
HE'S TESTING HIS eVTOL, THE JOBY AIRCRAFT. AS WE LANDED, IT FELT LIKE THE OLD GUARD MEETING THE NEW.
OBVIOUSLY, IT'S A COMBINATION OF A HELICOPTER AND A PLANE? >> Joeben Bevirt: EXACTLY. SO, IT CAN TAKE OFF LIKE A
HELICOPTER, BUT IT FLIES WITH THE EFFICIENCY OF AN AIRPLANE. >> Cooper: BEVIRT HAS BEEN WORKING ON THE JOBY FOR MORE
THAN A DECADE. IT HAS SIX PROPELLERS AND FOUR BATTERIES IN ITS WINGS, AND WILL OPERATE AS AN AIR TAXI, CARRYING
A PILOT AND FOUR PASSENGERS. HE SAYS IT CAN FLY 150 MILES ON A SINGLE CHARGE AND HAS A TOP SPEED OF AROUND 200 MILES
AN HOUR. WHY THIS DESIGN? >> Bevirt: SO, VERTICAL TAKE OFF IS IMPORTANT, SO IT CAN TAKE YOU
TO WHERE YOU WANT TO GO, RIGHT? WE DON'T NEED A HUGE RUNWAY. AND THEN WITH THE WING, IT GIVES YOU THE EFFICIENCY TO FLY FAR
AND TO FLY FAST. >> PILOT, YOU'RE CLEARED FLIGHT FLEX ALPHA. >> Cooper: BECAUSE IT'S STILL
BEING TESTED, THE JOBY WAS PILOTED REMOTELY BY A NEARBY GROUND CREW. >> FOR FLIGHT--
>> Cooper: WHEN THEY FIRED UP THE MOTORS, UNLIKE A HELICOPTER, THE JOBY DIDN'T NEED TIME TO WARM UP.
IT TOOK OFF IN ABOUT 20 SECONDS. THAT'S IT? THAT'S REALLY QUIET. >> Bevirt: WE WANTED THIS TO
SOUND MORE LIKE THE WIND IN THE TREES THAN THE "WOP-WOP" OF A HELICOPTER. >> Cooper: NOISE LEVELS ARE A
CRITICAL ISSUE SINCE eVTOLs ARE MEANT TO TAKE OFF AND LAND NEAR WHERE PEOPLE WORK AND LIVE. >> Bevirt: THIS IS BELOW THE
BACKGROUND NOISE LEVEL OF MANY CITIES. YOU KNOW, I GO AROUND WITH MY DECIBEL METER ON MY PHONE AND,
LIKE, MEASURE SOUND LEVELS. ( LAUGHS ) >> Cooper: THAT'S WHAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING FOR TEN YEARS?
>> Bevirt: AND-- AND-- AND-- EXACTLY, BECAUSE WE NEEDED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE AIRCRAFT WAS GOING TO BE QUIET ENOUGH.
>> Cooper: BEVIRT STUDIED MECHANICAL ENGINEERING AT STANFORD WHERE HE INVENTED THIS POPULAR FLEXIBLE CAMERA TRIPOD,
AND LATER CREATED A COMPANY THAT MADE FLYING WIND TURBINES. BUT THE JOBY HAD REMAINED AN ELUSIVE DREAM.
>> Bevirt: THERE WERE DEFINITELY SKEPTICS-- EVEN, YOU KNOW, GOOD FRIENDS OF MINE-- WHO DIDN'T BELIEVE THAT YOU COULD MAKE THIS
WITH BATTERIES AND ELECTRIC PROPULSION. >> Cooper: THE BATTERY TECHNOLOGY JUST WASN'T THERE, IT
WOULDN'T WORK? >> Bevirt: YEAH. >> Cooper: BEVIRT HIRED JON WAGNER AWAY FROM TESLA, WHERE HE
HELPED DEVELOP THE CAR'S REVOLUTIONARY BATTERIES. AT JOBY, HE FIGURED OUT A WAY TO MAKE THE BATTERIES LIGHTER, BUT
STILL POWERFUL ENOUGH TO GET THE TWO-TON eVTOL OFF THE GROUND. >> Jon Wagner: YOU HAD TO PLAY TO THE STRENGTHS OF BATTERY
POWER, AND THE STRENGTHS OF ELECTRIC MOTORS. SO, A TYPICAL AIRCRAFT MIGHT HAVE ONE BIG MOTOR, BUT WE CAN
HAVE SIX MOTORS DISTRIBUTED THROUGHOUT THE AIRCRAFT, AND IN THAT WAY, OPERATE IN A MUCH MORE EFFICIENT MANNER.
>> Cooper: THE WEIGHT OF EVERYTHING MUST BE THE MOST IMPORTANT THING? >> Wagner: ABSOLUTELY.
>> Cooper: SO, HOW DO YOU MAKE A PLANE AS LIGHT AS POSSIBLE? >> Wagner: YOU ESSENTIALLY HAVE TO ENGINEER EVERY PIECE OF IT.
>> Cooper: THE OUTSIDE OF THE JOBY IS MADE WITH LAYERS OF LIGHTWEIGHT CARBON FIBER. THE BATTERIES, AS WELL AS
COMPUTERS, ELECTRONICS, AND MOTORS, ARE CONSTRUCTED UNDER JON WAGNER'S WATCH. THEN HIS TEAM SHAKES, BAKES AND
SPINS THEM TO ENSURE THEY'LL MEET THE F.A.A.'S RIGOROUS SAFETY STANDARDS. THEY HAVE TO CERTIFY THE
AIRCRAFT AS BEING SAFE AND CAPABLE OF FLYING TO THEIR STANDARDS. THEY ALSO HAVE TO CERTIFY
THE PRODUCTION OF ALL THE PARTS OF IT? >> Bevirt: EXACTLY, THE OPERATION, THE PILOT TRAINING,
THE MAINTENANCE STEPS. EVRY FACET IS HEAVILY REGULATED. >> Cooper: ALL THIS COSTS A LOT
OF MONEY. TOYOTA HAS INVESTED ABOUT $400 MILLION IN JOBY, AND BEVIRT TOOK THE COMPANY PUBLIC LAST YEAR.
>> Paul Sciarra: I THINK THE TEXTURE'S GOOD. >> Cooper: BILLIONAIRE PAUL SCIARRA, CO-FOUNDER OF THE
WEBSITE PINTEREST, HAS ALSO PUT IN A SMALL FORTUNE. HE'S JOBY'S EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN, AND SAYS THEY'LL LAUNCH IN UP TO
THREE CITIES, AND THAT PASSENGERS WILL EVENTUALLY END UP PAYING AROUND $3 TO $4 A MILE TO FLY-- A LITTLE MORE THAN AN
AVERAGE UBER RIDE. CAN YOU JUST TAKE ME THROUGH, AS A PASSENGER, WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE? I WANT TO GET TO J.F.K. AIRPORT.
IT'S BUMPER-TO-BUMPER TRAFFIC. WHAT DO I DO? >> Sciarra: TAKE OUT YOUR PHONE, PULL OUT AN APP, AND WITH
ONE CLICK, YOU'RE BOOKING THE WHOLE TRIP. SO, A CAR IS COMING TO WHEREVER YOU ARE IN MANHATTAN, IT'S
TAKING YOU TO THE TAKE-OFF AND LANDING LOCATION, THE VERTIPORT. AND YOU'RE HOPPING IN YOUR JOBY AND IT'S FLYING YOU TO YOUR
FINAL DESTINATION. NOW, MAYBE THERE'S A CAR AT THE OTHER END, OR YOU'RE JUST WALKING TO THE TAIL END.
>> Cooper: IF PEOPLE ARE TAKING CARS TO AND FROM VERTIPORTS-- DOESN'T THAT JUST ADD TO CONGESTION?
>> Sciarra: IF WE'RE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, TAKE OUT 80% OF THE MILES THAT PEOPLE MIGHT BE TRAVELING AND MOVE THOSE MILES
FROM CONGESTED ROADS TO THE AIR, I THINK THAT'S GOING TO HAVE AN IMPACT. >> Cooper: BUT JUST A FEW WEEKS
AFTER WE SAW THIS JOBY AIRCRAFT FLY, IT CRASHED IN FEBRUARY, DUE TO WHAT FEDERAL INVESTIGATORS CALLED A COMPONENT FAILURE.
NO ONE WAS HURT, BUT THE eVTOL WAS TOTALED. BEVIRT SAYS THAT'S ALL PART OF THE TESTING PROCESS, AND IS AS
OPTIMISTIC NOW AS HE WAS WHEN WE INTERVIEWED HIM. HOW FAR ARE YOU FROM GETTING THE FIRST JOBY IN THE SKY WITH
PASSENGERS? >> Bevirt: SO, WE ARE LAUNCHING OUR SERVICE IN 2024. >> Cooper: YOU THINK YOU CAN DO
IT THAT QUICKLY? >> Bevirt: YES. >> Cooper: THERE HAVE BEEN, THOUGH, A LOT OF COMPANIES THAT
HAVE SAID, "OH, WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS IN TWO YEARS," AND THEN IT DOESN'T HAPPEN. >> Bevirt: WE'RE VERY CONFIDENT.
>> Cooper: THERE'S A LOT OF CONFIDENCE OVER AT WISK AERO AS WELL, THOUGH THE eVTOL THEY ARE DEVELOPING WILL BE EVEN MORE
COMPLICATED TO BRING TO MARKET BECAUSE IT'S FULLY AUTONOMOUS. THERE WILL BE PASSENGERS, BUT NO PILOT ON BOARD.
YOU'RE NOT JUST FIGURING OUT AN ELECTRIC VEHICLE, YOU'RE FIGURING OUT A FULLY AUTONOMOUS FLYING VEHICLE?
>> Gary Gysin: THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S RIGHT. WE'RE GOING FOR IT. ( LAUGHS )
YOU AND I TALKED ABOUT THAT. >> Cooper: C.E.O. GARY GYSIN SAYS THEY'RE ON TRACK TO SPEND ABOUT $2 BILLION.
THE COMPANY IS BANKROLLED BY BOEING, AND GOOGLE CO-FOUNDER LARRY PAGE. THEY'VE BEEN TESTING THE
TECHNOLOGY FOR THE LAST EIGHT YEARS. >> CONTROL'S IN POSITION FOR LIFT-OFF.
>> Cooper: SO, HOW MANY TEST FLIGHTS HAVE YOU ACTUALLY DONE? >> Gysin: SO, CLOSE-- CLOSE TO 1,600 TEST FLIGHTS WITHOUT,
YOU KNOW-- KNOCK ON WOOD, WITHOUT AN INCIDENT. >> SELECTING LIFT-OFF NOW. >> Cooper: WE WATCHED ONE OF
THOSE TEST FLIGHTS IN HOLLISTER, CALIFORNIA. A TEAM OF ENGINEERS ABOUT HALF A MILE AWAY STARTED THE eVTOL WITH
THE CLICK OF A MOUSE. THE ENTIRE ROUTE WAS PRE- PROGRAMMED. WHY AUTONOMOUS?
WHY GO THIS ROUTE? >> Gysin: YEAH. SO, WE'RE GOING STRAIGHT TO SELF-FLYING.
SEVERAL REASONS. ONE, IT'S SAFER. >> Cooper: SAFER, HE SAYS, BECAUSE MOST PLANE ACCIDENTS
INVOLVE HUMAN ERROR. MUCH OF COMMERCIAL AVIATION IS ALREADY AUTOMATED, AND GYSIN SEES THE ENTIRE eVTOL INDUSTRY
GOING THAT WAY EVENTUALLY. HE IS DETERMINED TO GET THERE FIRST. >> Gysin: WE DO IT PRIMARILY
FROM A SAFETY PERSPECTIVE, BUT ALSO SCALE. SO, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A PILOT IN THE AIRCRAFT, IT'S LESS
EXPENSIVE. YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO PILOT TRAINING. YOU'RE FLYING FOUR PASSENGERS.
WE CAN CHARGE LESS. WE DON'T WANT THIS TO BE A PREMIUM HELICOPTER-LIKE SERVICE. WE WANT THIS TO BE A SERVICE
THAT'S AFFORDABLE TO THE MASSES. >> Cooper: THERE IS A HURDLE, PSYCHOLOGICALLY, FOR PEOPLE TO GET INTO AN AIRCRAFT THAT DOES
NOT HAVE A HUMAN AT THE CONTROLS. >> Gysin: OF COURSE. AND SO, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO
WITH THAT IS EACH PASSENGER CAN BE IN VERBAL COMMUNICATION WITH THE GROUND. THEY CAN BE TALKING TO A PILOT
WHENEVER THEY WANT TO. SO, IT'S ALL DESIGNED TO PROVIDE COMFORT. IT WILL TAKE TIME.
THIS ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN OVERNIGHT. >> Cooper: GYSIN WANTS TO LAUNCH WISK'S FOUR-SEATER
AIR TAXI SERVICE IN THE WORLD'S 20 BUSIEST CITIES WITHIN THE NEXT DECADE. >> WHEELS DOWN.
>> Cooper: YOU DON'T GIVE A DATE OF WHEN YOU THINK YOU'LL BE OPERATIONAL? >> Gysin: YEAH, YOU KNOW WHY WE
DON'T DO THAT? BECAUSE WE ARE NOT IN CONTROL OF THAT PART. THE F.A.A. IS.
IN EUROPE, IT'S CALLED EASA. THEY'RE IN CHARGE. SO, WHEN THEY CERTIFY AIRCRAFT TO FLY, THAT'S WHEN YOU FLY.
>> Cooper: THE F.A.A. WON'T SAY WHEN AN AUTONOMOUS eVTOL MIGHT BE CERTIFIED, BUT ACTING ADMINISTRATOR BILLY NOLEN TOLD
US, HAILING A PILOTED AIR TAXI BY 2024 IS WELL WITHIN THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY. >> Nolen: THE CHALLENGE FOR US
IT TO MAKE SURE THAT INNOVATION DOESN'T COME AT THE EXPENSE OF SAFETY. BUT CLEARLY, WE ARE SEEING THE
EMERGENCE OF SOMETHING THAT'S FANTASTIC, I THINK. >> Cooper: THIS IS REAL? I MEAN, THIS IS NO LONGER JUST
THE STUFF OF FANTASY? >> Nolen: WE WANT TO BE VERY CAREFUL. WE WANT TO BE VERY MEASURED.
BUT YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. THIS IS REAL. AND THIS IS HAPPENING. WE'VE COME A LONG WAY FROM
WHERE WE WERE JUST, YOU KNOW, A MERE DECADE AGO. ( TICKING )
>> Cooper: IT'S REALLY COOL! >> TAKING FLIGHT WITH ANDERSON COOPER, AT 60minutesovertime.com.
SPONSORED BY COLOGUARD.
>> Stahl: TONIGHT, JEWS ARE OBSERVING THE THIRD NIGHT OF PASSOVER, WESTERN CHRISTIANS ARE CELEBRATING EASTER SUNDAY,
AND ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS ARE BEGINNING HOLY WEEK. IT IS A SACRED TIME, WHEN HOPE IS RENEWED, WHEN DEATH DOESN'T
HAVE THE LAST WORD, WHEN FREEDOM OVERCOMES REPRESSION. THIS YEAR, IN UKRAINE, DEATH APPEARS TO BE HAVING ITS DAY.
IN MARIUPOL, AN EXODUS OF UKRAINIANS IS IMPEDED BY RUSSIAN BOMBS. IN BUCHA, INSTEAD OF AN
EMPTY TOMB, WE SEE MASS GRAVES BEHIND THE CHURCH OF ST. ANDREW. CITIES LAID TO WASTE, CIVILIAN POPULATIONS WITHOUT
FOOD OR WATER, OR A ROOF OVER THEIR HEADS. THIS IS EASTER. THIS IS PASSOVER.
EVEN IN UKRAINE, BRAVELY, AND WITH THE HELP OF MUCH OF THE WORLD, IT IS A SEASON HOLDING THE PROMISE OF FREEDOM,
AND HOPE. I'M LESLEY STAHL. WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK WITH ANOTHER EDITION OF "60 MINUTES."
( TICKING ) Captioning funded by CBS and FORD.