1
00:00:09,409 --> 00:00:14,881
>> WE ARE SEEING EVOLVING
INTELLIGENCE ABOUT RUSSIAN
PLANNING FOR POTENTIAL ATTACKS.
WE HAVE TO ASSUME THAT THERE'S
2
00:00:14,948 --> 00:00:22,222
GOING TO BE A BREACH.
THERE'S GOING TO BE AN INCIDENT.
THERE'S GOING TO BE AN ATTACK.
>> WHEN YOU'VE GOT SOMEONE LIKE
3
00:00:22,288 --> 00:00:28,395
VLADIMIR PUTIN, WHO JUST DOESN'T
SEEM TO CARE ABOUT NORMS, HOW DO
YOU PROTECT AGAINST THAT?
>> I THINK WE ARE DEALING
4
00:00:28,461 --> 00:00:38,171
WITH A VERY DANGEROUS,
VERY SOPHISTICATED, VERY
WELL-RESOURCED CYBER ACTOR.
AND THAT'S WHY WE'VE BEEN
5
00:00:38,238 --> 00:00:45,111
TELLING EVERYBODY, CONSISTENTLY,
SHIELDS UP.
( TICKING )
6
00:00:45,678 --> 00:00:53,686
>> VOLKSWAGEN MAKES MORE THAN
JUST VOLKSWAGENS.
THEY ALSO MAKE AUDIS, PORSCHES,
LAMBORGHINIS, AND BENTLEYS.
7
00:00:53,753 --> 00:01:01,661
BUT AS WE FOUND OUT, V.W. IS
DEALING WITH A MYRIAD OF
CHALLENGES--
OH, OH!
8
00:01:01,728 --> 00:01:10,804
--ALL AT HIGH SPEED, AS THEY
ATTEMPT TO BECOME 50% ELECTRIC
BY THE END OF THE DECADE, ALL
THE WHILE WATCHING THE WAR IN
9
00:01:10,870 --> 00:01:17,377
UKRAINE, JUST A FEW HOURS AWAY.
( TICKING )
10
00:01:18,478 --> 00:01:25,685
>> THIS IS CALLED AN eVTOL, A
CLUNKY ACRONYM FOR ELECTRIC
VERTICAL TAKEOFF AND LANDING
AIRCRAFT.
11
00:01:25,752 --> 00:01:31,524
IN THE NEAR FUTURE, AN ENTIRE
INDUSTRY HOPES TO HAVE THESE
ELECTRIC VEHICLES AVAILABLE SO
YOU CAN SOAR OVER BUMPER-TO-
12
00:01:31,591 --> 00:01:39,365
BUMPER TRAFFIC- IN SOME, FOR
ABOUT THE COST OF AN UBER.
( TICKING )
13
00:01:39,899 --> 00:01:44,270
>> I'M LESLEY STAHL.
>> I'M BILL WHITAKER.
>> I'M ANDERSON COOPER.
>> I'M SHARYN ALFONSI.
14
00:01:44,337 --> 00:01:49,809
>> I'M JON WERTHEIM.
>> I'M SCOTT PELLEY.
THOSE STORIES and more, TONIGHT,
ON "60 MINUTES."
15
00:01:49,876 --> 00:01:53,613
( TICKING )
16
00:02:03,256 --> 00:02:07,160
>> Whitaker: THIS PAST WEEK,
THE U.S. GOVERNMENT ISSUED AN
URGENT WARNING ABOUT DANGEROUS
NEW MALWARE THAT COULD CRIPPLE
17
00:02:07,227 --> 00:02:15,668
INDUSTRIAL SYSTEMS WORLDWIDE.
IT COMES ON THE HEELS OF UKRAINE
WITHSTANDING AN ATTEMPT BY
RUSSIAN HACKERS TO KNOCK OUT
18
00:02:15,735 --> 00:02:23,176
POWER TO TWO MILLION PEOPLE IN
THAT WAR-TORN COUNTRY.
THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS
BEEN RELEASING SENSITIVE
19
00:02:23,243 --> 00:02:31,184
INTELLIGENCE AND DIRE WARNINGS
THAT THE KREMLIN IS PREPARING
TO LAUNCH A NEW GENERATION OF
CYBERATTACKS ON AMERICAN SOIL.
20
00:02:31,251 --> 00:02:39,459
U.S. CYBER DEFENDERS TELL US,
THEY ARE NOW WATCHING RUSSIAN
STATE ACTORS PROBE SOME OF OUR
MOST CRITICAL SYSTEMS, AND ARE
21
00:02:39,526 --> 00:02:48,034
BRACING THEMSELVES-— ESPECIALLY
AT THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND
SECURITY-— WITH AN INITIATIVE
CALLED "SHIELDS UP."
22
00:02:48,101 --> 00:02:54,040
>> Jen Easterly: WE ARE SEEING
EVOLVING INTELLIGENCE ABOUT
RUSSIAN PLANNING FOR POTENTIAL
ATTACKS.
23
00:02:54,107 --> 00:03:00,480
AND WE HAVE TO ASSUME THAT
THERE'S GOING TO BE A BREACH.
THERE'S GOING TO BE AN INCIDENT.
THERE'S GOING TO BE AN ATTACK.
24
00:03:00,547 --> 00:03:05,418
>> Whitaker: JEN EASTERLY IS
DIRECTOR OF THE CYBERSECURITY
AND INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY
AGENCY.
25
00:03:05,485 --> 00:03:13,493
KNOWN BY ITS ACRONYM, CISA,
THE AGENCY HELPS SECURE COMPUTER
NETWORKS IN 16 SECTORS DEEMED
VITAL TO NATIONAL SECURITY,
26
00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:19,265
LIKE ENERGY, FINANCE, AND
COMMUNICATIONS.
>> Easterly: ANYTHING THAT COULD
IMPACT CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE.
27
00:03:19,332 --> 00:03:30,109
>> Whitaker: EASTERLY IS NOT
YOUR TYPICAL BUREAUCRAT.
SHE'S A DECORATED RETIRED ARMY
OFFICER WITH TWO BRONZE STARS,
28
00:03:30,176 --> 00:03:34,681
WHO'S ALSO DECORATED WITH A
TATTOO, AND NAILS PAINTED THE
COLORS OF UKRAINE'S FLAG.
SHE'S A TECHIE WITH SERIOUS
29
00:03:34,747 --> 00:03:42,455
CHOPS.
A WEST POINT GRADUATE AND A
RHODES SCHOLAR, SHE WAS PART OF
THE NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY'S
30
00:03:42,522 --> 00:03:49,228
ELITE HACKING TEAM, AND WENT ON
TO HELP CREATE THE AGENCY'S
CYBER COMMAND.
WHEN YOU'VE GOT SOMEONE LIKE
31
00:03:49,295 --> 00:03:58,738
VLADIMIR PUTIN, WHO JUST DOESN'T
SEEM TO CARE ABOUT NORMS, HOW DO
YOU PROTECT AGAINST THAT?
>> Easterly: I THINK WE ARE
32
00:03:58,805 --> 00:04:07,313
DEALING WITH A VERY DANGEROUS,
VERY SOPHISTICATED, VERY
WELL-RESOURCED CYBER ACTOR.
AND THAT'S WHY WE'VE BEEN
33
00:04:07,380 --> 00:04:14,320
TELLING EVERYBODY, CONSISTENTLY,
"SHIELDS UP."
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
IT MEANS, ASSUME THERE WILL
34
00:04:14,387 --> 00:04:18,057
BE DISRUPTIVE CYBER ACTIVITY,
AND MAKE SURE YOU ARE PREPARED
FOR IT.
ARE YOU GAME?
35
00:04:18,124 --> 00:04:23,997
ARE YOU READY TO HELP MAKE
YOURSELF AND OUR NATION MORE
SECURE?
>> Whitaker: SHE'S TAKEN TO
36
00:04:24,063 --> 00:04:29,402
SOCIAL MEDIA TO ENCOURAGE
INDUSTRY TO SHARE INFORMATION
WITH GOVERNMENT TO DEFEND
AGAINST CYBERATTACKS, AND
37
00:04:29,469 --> 00:04:35,808
CALLS ON ALL AMERICANS TO
PUT THEIR SHIELDS UP BY
UPDATING SOFTWARE AND USING
MULTI-FACTOR AUTHENTICATION ON
38
00:04:35,875 --> 00:04:44,083
COMPUTERS AND PHONES.
>> Easterly: I'M A BIG "STAR
TREK" FAN, SO, "SHIELDS UP!"
AND IT HAS REALLY CAUGHT ON AS
39
00:04:44,150 --> 00:04:50,156
SOMETHING THAT'S ALL ABOUT
PREPARATION, NOT PANIC.
>> Whitaker: IS THERE ONE SECTOR
THAT WORRIES YOU MORE THAN THE
40
00:04:50,223 --> 00:04:55,294
OTHERS?
>> Easterly: WE KNOW THAT
ENERGY, TARGETING THE ENERGY
SECTOR, IS PART OF THE RUSSIAN
41
00:04:55,361 --> 00:05:00,933
PLAY BOOK.
BUT ALSO FINANCE, GIVEN
POTENTIAL RETALIATORY ATTACKS
FOR THE VERY SEVERE SANCTIONS
42
00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:07,373
THAT THE U.S. AND OUR ALLIES
HAVE IMPOSED AND CONTINUE TO
IMPOSE.
>> Whitaker: IF I'M JUST SITTING
43
00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:14,013
A HOME WATCHING THIS, WHY
SHOULD I BE CONCERNED ABOUT A
CYBERATTACK?
>> Easterly: EVERYTHING THAT
44
00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:23,289
YOU DO, HOUR BY HOUR, IS LARGELY
DEPENDENT IN SOME WAY ON THE
CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE.
HOW YOU GET GAS AT THE
45
00:05:23,356 --> 00:05:30,930
LOCAL PUMP, HOW YOU GET FOOD AT
THE GROCERY STORE, HOW YOU GET
MONEY FROM YOUR A.T.M., HOW YOU
GET YOUR POWER, HOW YOU GET YOUR
46
00:05:30,997 --> 00:05:39,038
WATER, HOW YOU COMMUNICATE-
ALL OF THAT IS OUR CRITICAL
INFRASTRUCTURE.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS
47
00:05:39,105 --> 00:05:45,378
AT POTENTIAL RISK TO A RUSSIAN
MALICIOUS CYBERATTACK.
>> Robert Lee: THERE'S ONLY BEEN
ONE COUNTRY OUT THERE THAT'S
48
00:05:45,445 --> 00:05:51,651
ACTUALLY HAD EXPERTISE IN
TAKING DOWN ELECTRIC POWER
SYSTEMS, AND THAT'S RUSSIA.
>> Whitaker: ROBERT LEE, ANOTHER
49
00:05:51,718 --> 00:05:59,392
FORMER N.S.A. HACKER, IS THE
CO-FOUNDER OF DRAGOS, A
CYBERSECURITY COMPANY.
HE'S KNOWN AS A WIZARD OF THE
50
00:05:59,459 --> 00:06:07,433
DARK ARTS OF CYBER WAR,
SPECIALIZING IN THE DEFENSE OF
CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE.
IN 2015, HE INVESTIGATED AN
51
00:06:07,500 --> 00:06:16,275
INCIDENT IN UKRAINE, THE MOST
DESTRUCTIVE CYBERATTACK ON
CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE THE
WORLD HAD EVER SEEN.
52
00:06:16,342 --> 00:06:22,014
WHAT- WHAT'D YOU FIND?
>> Lee: THE RUSSIAN STATE
BROKE INTO THREE DIFFERENT POWER
COMPANIES ACROSS UKRAINE
53
00:06:22,081 --> 00:06:26,419
PROBABLY ABOUT SIX MONTHS AHEAD
OF THE ACTUAL ATTACK.
SO, THEY BROKE IN OVER THE
SUMMER, GOT INTO POSITION, AND
54
00:06:26,486 --> 00:06:35,461
THEY STARTED LEARNING HOW TO
OPERATE THOSE SYSTEMS.
AND AS A RESULT, THEY
DISCONNECTED OVER 60 SUBSTATIONS
55
00:06:35,528 --> 00:06:40,500
ACROSS UKRAINE, AND CAUSED
BLACKOUTS FOR AROUND 225,000
CUSTOMERS IN THE DEAD OF WINTER.
>> Whitaker: IT WAS ALL DONE
56
00:06:40,566 --> 00:06:50,143
REMOTELY FROM THIS BUILDING IN
MOSCOW, BY HACKERS WITH THE
MILITARY INTELLIGENCE AGENCY,
THE G.R.U..
57
00:06:50,209 --> 00:06:54,814
THE UKRAINIANS HAD TO SEND
UTILITY WORKERS TO THE IMPAIRED
SUBSTATIONS TO MANUALLY RESTART
EACH ONE.
58
00:06:54,881 --> 00:07:03,890
A YEAR LATER, LEE SAYS, G.R.U.
HACKERS WERE BACK WITH A MUCH
MORE SOPHISTICATED ATTACK-
A PIECE OF MALWARE THAT COULD
59
00:07:03,956 --> 00:07:12,098
CRIPPLE MULTIPLE TRANSMISSION
STATIONS WITH ONE KEYSTROKE.
WHAT DID IT MEAN THAT RUSSIA WAS
ABLE TO DO THIS?
60
00:07:12,165 --> 00:07:16,302
>> Lee: IT WAS A SHOCK TO
EVERYBODY, BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN
A LOT OF THEORY AROUND HOW YOU
COULD DO THIS.
61
00:07:16,369 --> 00:07:20,406
PEOPLE IN MY COMMUNITY ON THE
CYBERSECURITY SIDE HAVE BEEN
TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR A LONG
TIME ON, IT'S POSSIBLE.
62
00:07:20,473 --> 00:07:27,947
BUT TO ACTUALLY SEE IT
DEMONSTRATED IS A GIANT PROOF
THAT YOU CAN DO IT.
AND WE ALSO KNOW NOW, THEY'RE
63
00:07:28,014 --> 00:07:35,021
BOLD ENOUGH TO DO IT.
>> Whitaker: COULD THE RUSSIANS
DO THE SAME THING HERE IN THE
U.S.?
64
00:07:35,087 --> 00:07:42,695
>> Lee: ABSOLUTELY.
>> Whitaker: OVER THE LAST FEW
YEARS, LEE'S CYBERSECURITY
COMPANY, DRAGOS, HAS TRACKED THE
65
00:07:42,762 --> 00:07:50,203
SAME G.R.U. HACKING GROUP, KNOWN
AMONG RESEARCHERS AS "SANDWORM,"
INSTALLING MALWARE AND PROBING
POWER COMPANIES HERE IN THE U.S.
66
00:07:50,269 --> 00:07:55,074
>> Lee: THERE WAS ABOUT A DOZEN
POWER COMPANIES THAT ENDED UP
GETTING COMPROMISED IN THE
2014-2015 TIME FRAME BY THE SAME
67
00:07:55,141 --> 00:08:03,916
GROUP THAT ENDED UP TAKING DOWN
THE ELECTRIC SYSTEM IN UKRAINE.
>> Whitaker: IN THE SUMMER OF
2017, RUSSIAN HACKERS LAUNCHED A
68
00:08:03,983 --> 00:08:11,891
MORE BRAZEN, AND POTENTIALLY
MUCH MORE DANGEROUS ATTACK, THIS
TIME ON PETRO RABIGH, A MASSIVE
OIL REFINERY ALONG THE RED SEA
69
00:08:11,958 --> 00:08:20,733
IN SAUDI ARABIA.
ON A FRIDAY NIGHT IN AUGUST,
A SAFETY SYSTEM TRIGGERED THE
WHOLE PLANT TO SHUT DOWN.
70
00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:28,174
JULIAN GUTMANIS WAS WORKING
CYBERSECURITY FOR THE SAUDI
OIL GIANT ARAMCO, AND RUSHED TO
THE SCENE TO INVESTIGATE.
71
00:08:28,241 --> 00:08:34,447
FROM WHAT YOU SAW, YOU- YOU
WERE ALARMED?
>> Julian Gutmanis: AT THAT
STAGE, YES, YEP.
72
00:08:34,513 --> 00:08:39,318
LIKE, WHY IS SOMEBODY GOING
AFTER THE SAFETY SYSTEMS ON A
WEEKEND, AT NIGHT?
IT'S JUST NOT NORMAL.
73
00:08:39,385 --> 00:08:44,590
>> Whitaker: WHAT GUTMANIS
DISCOVERED STOPPED HIM IN HIS
TRACKS: SOMEONE HAD HACKED INTO
THE EMERGENCY SHUTDOWN SYSTEM
74
00:08:44,657 --> 00:08:51,430
AND INSTALLED SUSPICIOUS
COMPUTER FILES.
>> Gutmanis: THE FILES WERE
CREATED AND EXECUTED, YOU KNOW,
75
00:08:51,497 --> 00:08:58,137
MOMENTARILY BEFORE THE INITIAL
OUTAGE THAT WE RESPONDED TO.
>> Whitaker: YOU WERE ABLE TO
TRACE THAT BACK?
76
00:08:58,204 --> 00:09:02,708
>> Gutmanis: FORENSICALLY, YEAH.
I CAME ACROSS A FUNCTION THAT
THEY'D DEFINED IN THERE CALLED
"EXECUTE EXPLOIT."
77
00:09:02,775 --> 00:09:05,978
HAIRS STOOD UP ON MY ARMS AND
I'M LIKE, "THIS IS PROBABLY
SOMETHING REALLY SERIOUS."
YOU DON'T NORMALLY HAVE THE WORD
78
00:09:06,045 --> 00:09:12,084
"EXPLOIT" IN- IN NORMAL, KIND
OF VENDOR SOFTWARE.
>> Whitaker: SO, THAT- THAT SET
OFF ALARM BELLS?
79
00:09:12,151 --> 00:09:15,855
>> Gutmanis: OH, HUGE ALARM
BELLS.
AND IT REALLY KIND OF MADE US
FOCUS ON, "HOW DID THESE FILES
80
00:09:15,922 --> 00:09:22,061
GET THERE?
WHERE DID THEY COME FROM?
WHO CREATED THEM?
AND- AND WHAT DO WE DO?
81
00:09:22,128 --> 00:09:30,469
WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TO DO?"
>> Whitaker: GUTMANIS NOW WORKS
FOR ROBERT LEE AT DRAGOS, WHO
ALSO INVESTIGATED THE HACK.
82
00:09:30,536 --> 00:09:38,811
LEE SAYS THE HACKERS COULD HAVE
SET OFF EXPLOSIONS AND RELEASED
TOXIC CHEMICALS WITH THE MALWARE
THEY IMPLANTED, KNOWN AS TRITON.
83
00:09:38,878 --> 00:09:45,518
>> Lee: IT'S THE FIRST TIME IN
HISTORY WE'VE EVER SEEN A
CYBERATTACK EXPLICITLY DESIGNED
TO KILL PEOPLE.
84
00:09:45,584 --> 00:09:51,157
IT TARGETS SAFETY SYSTEMS, AND
THESE SAFETY SYSTEMS ARE ONLY
THERE TO PROTECT LIVES.
SO, GOING AFTER THAT SYSTEM
85
00:09:51,223 --> 00:09:59,065
EXPLICITLY, THE ONLY REASON TO
DO IT IS TO HURT PEOPLE.
WHAT HAPPENED IS, THEY MADE A
SMALL ERROR IN THE SOFTWARE,
86
00:09:59,131 --> 00:10:04,003
THAT INSTEAD OF ACTUALLY CAUSING
THE EFFECTS THEY WERE LOOKING TO
ACHIEVE, LIKE AN EXPLOSION WHERE
YOU'D KILL PEOPLE, INSTEAD, IT
87
00:10:04,070 --> 00:10:09,842
SIMPLY SHUT DOWN THE PLANT.
>> Lisa Monaco: THE RUSSIANS
POSE A SERIOUS AND PERSISTENT
THREAT.
88
00:10:09,909 --> 00:10:17,483
>> Whitaker: AS THE SECOND
HIGHEST RANKING OFFICIAL IN THE
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, DEPUTY
ATTORNEY GENERAL LISA MONACO
89
00:10:17,550 --> 00:10:27,626
OVERSEES THE F.B.I. AND ITS
1,000 STRONG CYBER DIVISION.
THREE WEEKS AGO, HER DEPARTMENT
UNSEALED TWO SECRET INDICTMENTS.
90
00:10:27,693 --> 00:10:33,432
ONE DESCRIBED HOW TRITON WORKED,
AND IDENTIFIED THIS MAN, EVGENY
GLADKIKH, FROM A RUSSIAN
MINISTRY OF DEFENSE RESEARCH
91
00:10:33,499 --> 00:10:42,541
INSTITUTE, AS ONE OF THE
HACKERS.
THE SECOND INDICTMENT SAYS
BETWEEN 2012-2017, THESE THREE
92
00:10:42,608 --> 00:10:51,217
RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE AGENTS AND
ACCOMPLICES HACKED HUNDREDS OF
ENERGY COMPANIES AROUND THE
WORLD, AND MANAGED TO GET INSIDE
93
00:10:51,283 --> 00:11:00,326
THE COMPUTER NETWORK AT A
NUCLEAR POWER PLANT IN KANSAS.
>> Monaco: THIS WAS HISTORICAL
ACTIVITY, BUT IT IS VERY MUCH
94
00:11:00,393 --> 00:11:07,299
THE TYPE OF ACTIVITY THAT WE ARE
WARNING ABOUT TODAY, WHEN IT
COMES TO RUSSIA'S RESPONSE TO
THE WORLD'S RESPONSE TO THE
95
00:11:07,366 --> 00:11:15,541
HORROR IN UKRAINE.
>> Whitaker: WHAT ABOUT RIGHT
NOW?
ARE YOU SEEING RUSSIAN ACTIVITY,
96
00:11:15,608 --> 00:11:24,116
RUSSIAN PLOTS TO DISRUPT OUR
INFRASTRUCTURE?
>> Monaco: WE ARE SEEING RUSSIAN
STATE ACTORS SCANNING, PROBING,
97
00:11:24,183 --> 00:11:31,323
LOOKING FOR OPPORTUNITIES,
LOOKING FOR WEAKNESSES IN
OUR SYSTEMS, ON CRITICAL
INFRASTRUCTURE, ON BUSINESSES.
98
00:11:31,390 --> 00:11:40,299
THINK OF IT, BILL, AS A BURGLAR
GOING AROUND TRYING TO JIGGLE
THE LOCK IN YOUR HOUSE DOOR TO
SEE IF IT'S OPEN.
99
00:11:40,366 --> 00:11:48,007
AND WE'RE SEEING THAT.
THOSE WHO VIOLATE OUR LAWS
SHOULD EXPECT TO FACE JUSTICE.
>> Whitaker: EARLIER THIS MONTH,
100
00:11:48,074 --> 00:11:55,714
MONACO JOINED ATTORNEY GENERAL
MERRICK GARLAND AND F.B.I.
DIRECTOR CHRISTOPHER WRAY
TO ANNOUNCE THE U.S. HAD
101
00:11:55,781 --> 00:12:03,789
CONDUCTED A BOLD OPERATION:
STOPPING RUSSIAN HACKERS AS THEY
WERE PREPARING TO STRIKE.
>> Monaco: WE'RE TALKING
102
00:12:03,856 --> 00:12:11,797
MILITARY INTELLIGENCE ACTORS,
DEPLOYING MALWARE, MALICIOUS
CODE, ON THOUSANDS OF COMPUTERS
IN HUNDREDS OF COUNTRIES.
103
00:12:11,864 --> 00:12:19,672
WE'RE SEEING THEM DEPLOY THAT
CODE AND TAKE CONTROL OF THESE
COMPUTERS.
IT'S LIKE AN ARMY OF INFECTED
104
00:12:19,738 --> 00:12:26,378
COMPUTERS THAT, WITH A SINGLE
COMMAND, CAN BE DEPLOYED TO DO
EVERYTHING FROM GATHERING
INFORMATION, STEALING
105
00:12:26,445 --> 00:12:32,184
INFORMATION, AND SOMETIMES TO
HAVE DESTRUCTIVE EFFECT.
AND WE WERE ABLE TO WORK WITH
THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO UNDERSTAND
106
00:12:32,251 --> 00:12:41,227
IT, TO BE ABLE TO USE UNIQUE
INVESTIGATIVE TOOLS TO TRACE IT
BACK TO ATTACKERS AT KEYBOARDS.
AND THEN, USE OUR TOOLS TO GO
107
00:12:41,293 --> 00:12:51,504
IN, NOT ONLY REMOVE THAT
MALWARE, BUT AGAIN, TO LOCK
THOSE DOORS, TO KEEP THE
ATTACKER FROM COMING BACK.
108
00:12:51,570 --> 00:12:55,241
>> Dmitri Alperovitch: THIS WAS
THE FIRST TIME THAT WE HAVE
TAKEN THAT ACTION AGAINST
SOMETHING THAT THE RUSSIAN
109
00:12:55,307 --> 00:12:59,612
MILITARY HAS DONE, PREEMPTIVELY.
BEFORE THEY LAUNCHED THE ATTACK.
WE TOOK IT DOWN.
>> Whitaker: DMITIRI ALPEROVITCH
110
00:12:59,678 --> 00:13:04,783
IS WELL ACQUAINTED WITH PUTIN'S
TACTICS.
AS CO-FOUNDER OF THE HEAVYWEIGHT
CYBERSECURITY COMPANY
111
00:13:04,850 --> 00:13:13,626
CROWDSTRIKE, HE HELPED TRACE
THE 2016 HACK OF THE DEMOCRATIC
NATIONAL COMMITTEE BACK TO THE
G.R.U. IN MOSCOW.
112
00:13:13,692 --> 00:13:20,766
HE CURRENTLY IS A MEMBER OF
THE HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISORY
COUNCIL.
THE MOSCOW BORN ALPEROVITCH HAS
113
00:13:20,833 --> 00:13:28,574
A THEORY WHY PUTIN HASN'T
LAUNCHED A FULL-SCALE
CYBERATTACK ON THE U.S., YET.
>> Alperovitch: HE THINKS THAT A
114
00:13:28,641 --> 00:13:33,946
VICTORY THAT HE CAN PULL OUT IS
STILL ACHIEVABLE, AND THAT AS HE
CAN MAKE A DEAL WITH EUROPEANS
AT LEAST AND POSSIBLY THE
115
00:13:34,013 --> 00:13:39,552
AMERICANS TO TAKE THE SANCTIONS
OFF.
I THINK HE'S MISTAKEN ON THAT,
BUT I THINK AT LEAST UNTIL HE
116
00:13:39,618 --> 00:13:44,823
TRIES THAT, HE'S UNLIKELY TO
LAUNCH THE CYBERATTACKS.
>> Whitaker: SO, WHY DO YOU
THINK PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS SAID A
117
00:13:44,890 --> 00:13:51,964
CYBERATTACK FROM RUSSIA IS
COMING?
>> Alperovitch: WELL, I THINK
THE REALITY IS THAT THOSE
118
00:13:52,031 --> 00:13:56,502
SANCTIONS WILL NOT COME OFF,
THAT THE ECONOMIC PRESSURE ON
RUSIA WILL CONTINUE.
AND THEY ARE GOING TO START
119
00:13:56,569 --> 00:14:01,774
RETALIATING FOR THAT IN
CYBERSPACE ONCE IT HITS THEM
THAT THIS IS PERMANENT, THAT
THIS IS NOT GOING AWAY.
120
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:06,045
AND THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO
LOOK FOR WAYS TO PRESS US
ECONOMICALLY IN RETALIATION.
AND CYBER IS A PERFECT WAY FOR
121
00:14:06,111 --> 00:14:13,719
THEM TO DO SO.
>> Whitaker: PERFECT BECAUSE
CYBER IS A BATTLEFIELD WHERE
RUSSIANS HAVE AN ADVANTAGE:
122
00:14:13,786 --> 00:14:19,058
A TARGET-RICH ENVIRONMENT IN THE
UNITED STATES.
>> Alperovitch: THE REALITY IS
THAT WE HAVE WAY TOO MANY
123
00:14:19,124 --> 00:14:26,765
TARGETS.
IF YOU LOOK PARTICULARLY IN OUR
ENERGY SECTOR, YOU HAVE REGIONAL
UTILITIES, YOU HAVE MINOR ENERGY
124
00:14:26,832 --> 00:14:31,904
PROCESSING COMPANIES, STORAGE
COMPANIES, PIPELINE COMPANIES.
AND MAKE NO MISTAKE, BILL, THE
CYBER ACTORS THAT THEY HAVE ARE
125
00:14:31,971 --> 00:14:36,742
TOP NOTCH.
AND THEY'VE DEMONSTRATED THAT
TIME AND TIME AGAIN.
>> Whitaker: WE HAVE SAID IN THE
126
00:14:36,809 --> 00:14:41,247
PAST THAT "IF YOU DO THIS TO US,
WE WILL RESPOND IN KIND."
WOULD WE?
>> Alperovitch: WE HAVE TO LET
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00:14:41,313 --> 00:14:47,486
HIM KNOW THAT YOU WILL NOT TOUCH
OUR CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE
WITHOUT A RESPONSE.
AND THE WAY TO DO THAT, I THINK,
128
00:14:47,553 --> 00:14:51,924
IS THROUGH A CYBER OPERATION
THAT CAN DEMONSTRATE OUR
CAPABILITIES WITHOUT LASTING
DAMAGE.
129
00:14:51,991 --> 00:14:55,561
ONE OF THE WAYS YOU CAN DO THAT,
FOR EXAMPLE, IS BY TAKING RUSSIA
OFF THE INTERNET FOR A FEW
HOURS.
130
00:14:55,628 --> 00:15:00,933
IT WON'T CAUSE ANY LASTING
IMPACT, BUT IT WILL DEMONSTRATE
THE POWER OF THE UNITED STATES
CYBER COMMAND, WHAT WE CAN DO TO
131
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:06,272
HIS ECONOMY BY DISCONNECTING
HIM, EFFECTIVELY, FROM THE
INTERNET.
>> Whitaker: WE CAN DO THAT?
132
00:15:06,338 --> 00:15:09,875
>> Alperovitch: WE CAN
ABSOLUTELY DO THAT.
AND WE'LL LET HIM KNOW THAT
IF HE KEEPS GOING, IF HE KEEPS
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00:15:09,942 --> 00:15:25,791
ATTACKING US, WE CAN MAKE THAT
PERMANENT.
>> Stahl: VOLKSWAGEN IS NECK-
AND-NECK WITH TOYOTA AS THE
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00:15:25,858 --> 00:15:32,131
WORLD'S LARGEST CAR-MAKER.
THE GERMAN COMPANY, WHICH
GAVE US THE BELOVED BEETLE
LAST CENTURY, RAKED IN OVER
135
00:15:32,197 --> 00:15:40,973
$250 BILLION LAST YEAR, SELLING
NEARLY NINE MILLION CARS.
STILL, IT CAN FEEL MORE LIKE AN
OBSTACLE COURSE THAN VICTORY
136
00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:49,815
TOUR FOR HERBERT DIESS, WHO'S
BEEN RUNNING VOLKSWAGEN FOR THE
LAST FOUR YEARS.
THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE CARS
137
00:15:49,882 --> 00:15:55,554
HE SELLS RUN ON GASOLINE, A
GROWING PROBLEM FOR THE PLANET--
AND NOW TO DRIVERS' WALLETS--
BUT HIS MOST IMMEDIATE PROBLEM
138
00:15:55,621 --> 00:16:07,132
IS RUSSIA'S INVASION OF UKRAINE,
JUST A FEW HOURS EAST OF
VOLKSWAGEN'S HEADQUARTERS.
139
00:16:07,566 --> 00:16:12,938
( EXPLOSION )
VOLKSWAGEN IS FEELING THE
REPERCUSSIONS OF THE WAR IN
EUROPE.
140
00:16:13,005 --> 00:16:19,478
IN MARCH, UKRAINE WAS FORCED TO
SHUTTER FACTORIES THAT MADE
CABLING SYSTEMS, SO ESSENTIAL TO
VOLKSWAGEN THAT C.E.O. HERBERT
141
00:16:19,545 --> 00:16:27,886
DIESS HAD TO IDLE SEVERAL
ASSEMBLY-LINES IN GERMANY.
WHAT DID THEY SUPPLY YOU WITH
THAT YOU'RE NOT GETTING?
142
00:16:27,953 --> 00:16:33,459
>> Herbert Diess: MOST OF IT,
WIRING HARNESSES AND ELECTRICS,
ELECTRONICS COMPONENTS.
>> Stahl: ARE THOSE KEY?
143
00:16:33,525 --> 00:16:36,228
HOW HAS THAT AFFECTED--
>> Diess: SOME ARE REALLY KEY,
SOME ARE REALLY KEY.
>> Stahl: SO, YOU'RE TAKING A
144
00:16:36,295 --> 00:16:42,668
HIT?
>> Diess: DEFINITELY WE ARE
TAKING A HIT, YEAH.
>> Stahl: THEY'RE TAKING ANOTHER
145
00:16:42,735 --> 00:16:49,575
HIT TO THEIR BUSINESS BECAUSE,
TO HELP SANCTION PUTIN, DIESS
SUSPENDED VOLKSWAGEN'S
OPERATIONS IN RUSSIA.
146
00:16:49,641 --> 00:16:58,584
HOW CONCERNED ARE YOU THAT PUTIN
MIGHT SEIZE YOUR FACTORIES?
>> Deiss: IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO
UNDERSTAND THE SITUATION.
147
00:16:58,650 --> 00:17:07,393
I THINK IT WILL DEPEND A LOT ON
HOW FAR ARE WE GETTING BACK TO
NEGOTIATIONS.
>> Stahl: VOLKSWAGEN PULLED OUT
148
00:17:07,459 --> 00:17:10,763
OF RUSSIA VERY EARLY.
I WONDER HOW HARD A DECISION
THAT WAS FOR YOU?
>> Diess: IT IS QUITE A HARD
149
00:17:10,829 --> 00:17:21,240
DECISION FOR US BECAUSE WE HAVE
ABOUT 7,000 PEOPLE-- LOYAL
PEOPLE WORKING FOR US IN RUSSIA.
WE HAVE THREE PLANTS THERE.
150
00:17:21,306 --> 00:17:25,544
WE HAVE CUSTOMERS SINCE MANY
YEARS, SO IT'S VERY DIFFICULT
DECISION.
BUT STRONG SANCTIONS ARE
151
00:17:25,611 --> 00:17:31,550
PROBABLY THE ONLY MEASURES WE
HAVE CURRENTLY, BECAUSE WHAT
WE SEE IN EUROPE IS REALLY AN
APPALLING WAR.
152
00:17:31,617 --> 00:17:38,991
>> Stahl: HE FELT THE APPALLING
INVASION OF UKRAINE REQUIRED HIM
TO TAKE ACTION.
TRADITIONALLY, VOLKSWAGEN HAS
153
00:17:39,057 --> 00:17:46,665
BEEN MINDFUL OF ITS MORAL
RESPONSIBILITY, GIVEN ITS PAST.
THE COMPANY WAS FOUNDED BY THE
NAZIS, WHO WANTED TO CREATE A
154
00:17:46,732 --> 00:17:58,677
"PEOPLE'S CAR"- "VOLKSWAGEN."
THAT'S HITLER IN THE BEETLE.
DO YOU THINK THAT VOLKSWAGEN HAD
A SORT OF SPECIAL OBLIGATION TO
155
00:17:58,744 --> 00:18:06,385
ACT IN THIS CASE, GIVEN THE
COMPANIES' NAZI PAST?
>> Diess: I WOULDN'T GO SO FAR,
BUT YES, WE HAVE THIS PAST, AND
156
00:18:06,452 --> 00:18:14,726
PROBABLY WE ARE MORE CONSCIOUS
ABOUT THE-- SUCH THINGS.
>> Stahl: SCENES LIKE THIS IN
UKRAINE HAVE THE EUROPEAN UNION
157
00:18:14,793 --> 00:18:24,036
FINALLY MOVING CLOSER TO
EMBARGOING RUSSIAN OIL.
GERMANY IMPORTS OVER HALF OF
ITS GAS AND A THIRD OF ITS OIL
158
00:18:24,102 --> 00:18:28,674
FROMRUSSIA.
IF THE SPIGOT IS OFF, WHAT'S
THIS GOING TO DO TO THE
ECONOMIES IN EUROPE?
159
00:18:28,740 --> 00:18:37,616
>> Diess: A LONG-LASTING WAR
COULD DAMAGE EUROPE'S AND
GERMANY'S WELFARE QUITE
CONSIDERABLY, NO?
160
00:18:37,683 --> 00:18:45,657
THE IMPACT COULD BE QUITE SEVERE
TO EUROPE.
>> Stahl: DO YOU THINK THAT IT'S
TIME TO GO TO IRAN, AND GO TO
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00:18:45,724 --> 00:18:51,230
VENEZUELA, AND GO TO OTHER
COUNTRIES THAT, YOU KNOW, THE
WEST HAS NOT BEEN DEALING WITH?
>> Diess: SHORT-TERM, POSSIBLY,
162
00:18:51,296 --> 00:18:58,504
BUT LONG-TERM, WE HAVE TO GO
PROBABLY AT EVEN HIGHER SPEED TO
RENEWABLES, NO?
TO WIND AND SOLAR ENERGY.
163
00:18:58,570 --> 00:19:05,944
>> Stahl: AND, HE SAYS, TO
ELECTRIC CARS.
DIESS WANTS VOLKSWAGEN TO MAKE
ELECTRIC VERSIONS OF ALL ITS
164
00:19:06,011 --> 00:19:12,885
BRANDS.
AND THERE ARE MANY, BECAUSE
VOLKWSWAGEN DOESN'T JUST MAKE
VOLKSWAGENS-- IT ALSO MAKES
165
00:19:12,951 --> 00:19:19,958
HIGH-END AUDI, AND PORSCHE;
SUPERCAR LAMBORGHINI; LUXURY
BENTLEY; AND EVEN DUCATI
MOTORCYCLES.
166
00:19:20,025 --> 00:19:27,533
AT LEAST 100 MODELS IN ALL,
INCLUDING SEVERAL ELECTRIC CARS.
AUDI.
>> Diess: AUDI.
167
00:19:27,599 --> 00:19:30,802
>> Stahl: PORSCHE.
>> Diess: PORSCHE TAYCAN.
>> Stahl: ALL ELECTRIC HERE.
>> Diess: ID.4.
168
00:19:30,869 --> 00:19:37,709
ALL ELECTRIC.
>> Stahl: WE MET DIESS LAST
MONTH IN AUSTIN, TEXAS.
HE WANTED TO SHOW US THE NEW
169
00:19:37,776 --> 00:19:43,715
ALL-ELECTRIC PORSCHE.
WE DISCOVERED THAT DIESS LIKES
TO SURPRISE YOU--
OH MY GOD!
170
00:19:43,782 --> 00:19:52,324
--EVEN JOLT YOU, AS WHEN HE TOOK
ME FROM 0-60 IN A COUPLE
SECONDS--
OH, OH!
171
00:19:52,391 --> 00:20:00,098
--OR WHEN HE DELIVERED A SPEECH
TO EMPLOYEES, ON AN ELECTRIC
SURFBOARD?
A METAPHOR, PERHAPS, FOR
172
00:20:00,165 --> 00:20:08,273
PROPELLING THE COMPANY INTO A
NEW ERA.
IN THE U.S., FOCUSING ON
ELECTRIC S.U.V.s LIKE THE ID.4.
173
00:20:08,340 --> 00:20:19,718
VOLKSWAGEN IS RECONFIGURING ITS
PLANT WITH 4,000 WORKERS IN
CHATTANOOGA, TENNESSEE, WHERE
THEY MAKE GASOLINE S.U.V.s,
174
00:20:19,785 --> 00:20:27,626
TO ALSO START MAKING THE
ALL-ELECTRIC ID.4.
AND SCOTT KEOGH, HEAD OF
VOLKSWAGEN AMERICA, SAYS THEY'RE
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00:20:27,693 --> 00:20:36,735
ABOUT TO IMPORT A NEW SEDAN LIKE
THEIR OLD PASSAT.
>> Scott Keogh: YEAH, BUT A
SUPER COOL, ALL-ELECTRIC, CRAZY
176
00:20:36,802 --> 00:20:41,540
HIGH-TECH PASSAT, IF YOU WILL.
AND I THINK THE NEXT ONE AFTER
THAT WOULD BE AN S.U.V. BIGGER
THAN THIS ONE.
177
00:20:41,607 --> 00:20:53,385
>> Stahl: UNDER C.E.O. DIESS,
VOLKSWAGEN IS MAKING AN EXTRA
EFFORT IN THE AMERICAN MARKET.
IN THE '60s AND '70s, EVERYBODY
178
00:20:53,452 --> 00:20:59,124
IN THE UNITED STATES KNEW ABOUT
VOLKSWAGEN-- THE BEETLE, THE
MINIBUS.
BUT SINCE THEN, VOLKSWAGEN
179
00:20:59,191 --> 00:21:03,395
HAS NOT DONE WELL IN THE
UNITED STATES.
WHY IS THAT, DO YOU THINK?
>> Diess: IT'S DIFFICULT-- FIRST
180
00:21:03,462 --> 00:21:10,268
OF ALL, I HAVE TO ACCEPT, WE
LOST GROUND HERE IN THE U.S.
I THINK WE-- WE DIDN'T TAKE THE
U.S. CUSTOMER SERIOUSLY ENOUGH,
181
00:21:10,335 --> 00:21:17,075
NO?
WE TRIED TO SELL THE EUROPEAN
PRODUCT HERE IN THE U.S.
>> Stahl: VOLKSWAGEN DOES
182
00:21:17,142 --> 00:21:23,348
BRILLIANTLY IN CHINA, IN EUROPE,
IN LATIN AMERICA.
I MEAN, WHY PUT THE EFFORT HERE?
>> Diess: THIS IS SUCH AN
183
00:21:23,415 --> 00:21:28,086
IMPORTANT MARKET.
AND THERE ALWAYS HAVE BEEN
DISCUSSIONS, ALTHOUGH
INTERNALLY, "SHOULDN'T WE
184
00:21:28,153 --> 00:21:33,025
GIVE UP THE U.S. BECAUSE WE
ARE LOSING MONEY?
WE ARE GOING NOWHERE."
>> Stahl: EXACTLY.
185
00:21:33,091 --> 00:21:36,995
>> Diess: NO, WE HAVE TO COME
BACK IN THE U.S.
WE HAVE TO BECOME RELEVANT IN
THE U.S.
186
00:21:37,062 --> 00:21:43,435
AND WE ARE IN THE RIGHT WAY.
>> Stahl: THE RIGHT WAY, HE
SAYS, INCLUDES ELECTRIFYING A
NEW VERSION OF THE MICRO-BUS
187
00:21:43,502 --> 00:21:50,876
THAT WAS POPULAR AMONG HIPPIES
AND SURFERS IN THE '60s, CALLING
IT THE ID.BUZZ.
THIS IS THE NEW ONE.
188
00:21:50,942 --> 00:21:55,380
>> Diess: THIS IS THE NEW ONE.
>> Stahl: THE BUZZ.
AND THIS IS THE OLD BUS?
>> Diess: YES.
189
00:21:55,447 --> 00:21:58,383
EXACTLY.
70 YEARS IN BETWEEN.
YEAH.
A LOT OF ADVANCEMENTS IN
190
00:21:58,450 --> 00:22:06,792
TECHNOLOGY, MOSTLY IN SAFETY.
>> Stahl: DIESS WAS IN AUSTIN
TO INTRODUCE THE BUZZ TO A
NEW GENERATION AT THE SOUTH-BY-
191
00:22:06,858 --> 00:22:14,366
SOUTHWEST FESTIVAL.
HE THINKS TAKING WHAT WAS COOL
IN THE 20th CENTURY AND
ELECTRIFYING IT WILL HELP V.W.
192
00:22:14,433 --> 00:22:22,941
RECAPTURE THE AMERICAN MARKET.
YOU KNOW, IN THE UNITED STATES,
THE BEST-SELLING VEHICLES ARE
TRUCKS.
193
00:22:23,008 --> 00:22:30,916
AS FAR AS I KNOW, YOU DO NOT
HAVE PLANS TO MAKE AN ELECTRIC
TRUCK FOR THE AMERICAN MARKET.
>> Diess: NOT YET.
194
00:22:30,982 --> 00:22:37,856
>> Stahl: NOT YET?
HE'S COMMITTED TO HAVING AT
LEAST HALF HIS ENTIRE FLEET BE
ELECTRIC BY THE END OF THE
195
00:22:37,923 --> 00:22:46,932
DECADE, AND TO ELIMINATE DOZENS
OF COMBUSTION ENGINE MODELS.
>> Diess: WE HAVE TO
DE-CARBONIZE THE WORLD, BECAUSE
196
00:22:46,998 --> 00:22:59,244
CLIMATE CHANGE IS HAPPENING.
AND TO DE-CARBONIZE THE
AUTOMOTIVE SECTOR, THE ONLY WAY,
FEASIBLE WAY FORWARD IS
197
00:22:59,311 --> 00:23:03,515
ELECTRIFICATION.
>> Stahl: YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE
TO CHANGE THE ENGINE, THE
TRANSMISSION--
198
00:23:03,582 --> 00:23:05,751
>> Diess: YES.
>> Stahl: EVEN THE DESIGN.
AND THEY SAY OLD DOGS DON'T
LEARN NEW TRICKS.
199
00:23:05,817 --> 00:23:07,753
>> Diess: THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE
TRYING.
> Stahl: THE-- EXACTLY.
EXACTLY.
200
00:23:07,819 --> 00:23:13,525
>> Diess: YEAH.
IT IS A BIG CHALLENGE.
AND HISTORICALLY THERE HAVEN'T
BEEN TOO MANY CASES WHERE THE
201
00:23:13,592 --> 00:23:19,264
SUCCESSFUL COMPANIES IN THE
OLD WORLD COULD DEMONSTRATE
THAT THEY ARE STILL SUCCESSFUL
IN THE NEW WORLD.
202
00:23:19,331 --> 00:23:26,271
>> Stahl: AND YOU HAVE SO MANY
COMPETITORS IN THE
ELECTRIFICATION AREA.
>> Diess: YEAH.
203
00:23:26,338 --> 00:23:34,646
IT'S REALLY THE NEW COMPETITORS
WHICH ARE ESPECIALLY CHALLENGING
FOR US, NO?
COMING FROM SOFTWARE BACKGROUND,
204
00:23:34,713 --> 00:23:39,384
BATTERY BACKGROUND, APPLE BEING
SAID TO ENTERING AT SOME STAGE,
NO?
THOSE ARE PROBABLY THE
205
00:23:39,451 --> 00:23:43,121
COMPETITORS WE HAVE TO TAKE MOST
SERIOUSLY.
>> Stahl: TO COMPETE, VOLKSWAGEN
IS TRYING TO RECRUIT THOUSANDS
206
00:23:43,188 --> 00:23:49,427
OF SOFTWARE AND BATTERY
ENGINEERS WORLDWIDE.
THEY JUST OPENED A NEW BATTERY
FACILITY IN CHATTANOOGA.
207
00:23:49,494 --> 00:23:56,434
THEY DON'T MAKE THE BATTERY
CELLS YET-- A KOREAN SUPPLIER
DOES THAT.
FOR NOW, VOLKSWAGEN JUST
208
00:23:56,501 --> 00:24:05,710
ARRANGES THEM TO FIT IN THEIR
CARS.
>> Keogh: WE WILL GET INTO THE
BATTERY BUSINESS.
209
00:24:05,777 --> 00:24:11,950
WE WILL BUILD MORE PLANTS IN
AMERICA.
BECAUSE IT'S A CORE NECESSITY.
>> Stahl: IF YOU'RE A CAR
210
00:24:12,017 --> 00:24:13,885
COMPANY, YOU'RE A BATTERY
COMPANY.
>> Keogh: YOU'RE A BATTERY
COMPANY.
211
00:24:13,952 --> 00:24:18,790
YOU'RE A SOFTWARE COMPANY.
>> Stahl: THE RACE IS ON
BETWEEN TECH COMPANIES AND
TRADITIONAL CARMAKERS.
212
00:24:18,857 --> 00:24:29,768
IRONICALLY, VOLKSWAGEN GOT A
HEAD START FROM A SCANDAL IN
2015 THAT ALL BUT FORCED IT TO
PIVOT TO ELECTRIC.
213
00:24:29,835 --> 00:24:38,009
AT THAT TIME, OVER HALF THE
VOLKSWAGEN CARS SOLD IN EUROPE
RAN ON DIESEL, WHICH WAS
PROMOTED AS A CLEAN ENERGY
214
00:24:38,076 --> 00:24:46,585
SOLUTION TO LOWER EMISSIONS.
BUT THEN THE COMPANY WAS CAUGHT
SELLING DIESEL VEHICLES WITH
SOFTWARE DESIGNED TO CHEAT ON
215
00:24:46,651 --> 00:24:53,792
EMISSIONS TESTS.
11 MILLION CARS WERE RECALLED,
SOME SEEN HERE.
IT COST VOLKSWAGEN OVER
216
00:24:53,859 --> 00:25:01,533
$30 BILLION, AND SENT SOME
EXECUTIVES TO PRISON.
DIESS WAS NEW TO THE COMPANY AT
THE TIME.
217
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:06,404
DO YOU THINK PEOPLE HAVE
FORGOTTEN IT?
>> Diess: NO, NO, NO, NO.
IT'S-- YOU KNOW, THIS IS A
218
00:25:06,471 --> 00:25:11,576
LONG-LASTING THING.
AND WE HAVE TO CONVINCE OUR
CUSTOMERS THAT WE ARE WORTHWHILE
CONSIDERING, AND WE ARE
219
00:25:11,643 --> 00:25:15,113
DELIVERING A GOOD PRODUCT--
>> Stahl: AND HONEST.
>> Diess: AND HONEST.
>> Stahl: TO TRY TO SAVE THE
220
00:25:15,180 --> 00:25:23,989
COMPANY, THEY DECIDED TO TURN
AWAY FROM DIESEL AND TO
ELECTRIC.
THEY ALSO AGREED IN A SETTLEMENT
221
00:25:24,055 --> 00:25:32,163
WITH THE U.S. JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
TO INVEST $2 BILLION IN GREEN
TECH, THAT INCLUDES BUILDING A
LARGE NETWORK OF FAST-CHARGING
222
00:25:32,230 --> 00:25:39,137
STATIONS CALLED "ELECTRIFY
AMERICA."
THEY DROVE US TO ONE NEAR
AUSTIN.
223
00:25:39,204 --> 00:25:47,078
>> Ryan: SO, YOU JUST PLUG IT IN
HERE, GET IT IN, CLICK.
AND THEN YOUR VEHICLE'S
CHARGING.
224
00:25:47,145 --> 00:25:50,749
AND THEN JUST PUSH THAT NOZZLE
AND PULL IT BACK.
>> Stahl: BUT WHEN I TRIED--
IT'S NOT EASY.
225
00:25:50,815 --> 00:25:54,786
OKAY, SOMETHING'S WRONG.
I CAN'T DO IT!
>> Ryan: SURE YOU CAN, THERE YOU
GO!
226
00:25:54,853 --> 00:26:02,227
>> Stahl: CHARGING PROBLEMS MAY
BE THE LEAST OF THE CHALLENGES
FACING HERBERT DIESS.
THE BUSINESS MODEL OF GLOBAL
227
00:26:02,294 --> 00:26:10,936
COMPANIES LIKE VOLKSWAGEN IS
COMING UNDONE AS THE PANDEMIC
HAS STRAINED LONG SUPPLY LINES,
LEADING TO SHORTAGES IN KEY
228
00:26:11,002 --> 00:26:18,343
COMPONENTS LIKE SEMICONDUCTORS.
AND IN FEBRUARY, THE COMPANY WAS
STUNG BY THE PERILS OF SHIPPING
WHEN A FIRE SANK A CARGO OF
229
00:26:18,410 --> 00:26:27,919
4,000 OF ITS CARS.
AS IF ALL THAT'S NOT ENOUGH,
COVID IS DISRUPTING VOLKSWAGEN
IN ITS BIGGEST MARKET.
230
00:26:27,986 --> 00:26:33,224
WHAT PERCENT OF YOUR SALES COME
OUT OF CHINA?
>> Diess: 40%, ROUGHLY.
>> Stahl: ALMOST HALF!
231
00:26:33,291 --> 00:26:40,832
>> Diess: YES.
>> Stahl: BUT VOLKSWAGEN'S
OPERATION IN CHINA HAS COME
UNDER HEAVY CRITICISM BECAUSE
232
00:26:40,899 --> 00:26:47,339
ONE OF ITS PLANTS IS IN THE
HOME PROVINCE OF THE UYGHUR
MUSLIM MINORITY.
THE AREA WHERE YOUR FACTORY IS
233
00:26:47,405 --> 00:26:55,013
IS WHERE UYGHURS ARE BEING
"REEDUCATED."
THEY'RE IN DETENTION CAMPS.
DO YOU WORRY THAT THE MESSAGE IS
234
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,383
SENT THAT YOU'RE OKAY WITH
WHAT'S GOING ON IN THAT PART OF
THE WORLD?
>> Diess: I THINK THAT'S NOT THE
235
00:26:58,450 --> 00:27:07,258
MESSAGE WE-- WE ARE SENDING, NO?
WE CAN MAKE SURE WITH OUR PEOPLE
THAT THERE IS NO FORCED LABOR,
THAT PEOPLE ARE TREATED EQUALLY
236
00:27:07,325 --> 00:27:12,430
IN OUR PLANT--
>> Stahl: YOU'RE SURE OF THAT?
>> Diess: YEAH, ABSOLUTELY SURE.
>> Stahl: DO YOU FEEL, IN ANY
237
00:27:12,497 --> 00:27:14,933
WAY, ANY PRESSURE TO KEEP THAT
FIRM OPEN FROM THE CHINESE
GOVERNMENT?
>> Diess: WE WANT TO KEEP IT
238
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,471
OPEN.
I THINK LOCAL PEOPLE ARE MUCH
BETTER OFF IF WE STAY.
BEFORE COVID, I HAVE EVEN PLAN
239
00:27:19,537 --> 00:27:26,678
TO VISIT THE PLANT MYSELF, YEAH?
>> Stahl: WILL YOU DO THAT?
>> Diess: YEAH, I WILL DO THAT.
I WILL DEFINITELY VISIT THE
240
00:27:26,745 --> 00:27:35,253
PLANT.
>> Stahl: FOR ALL THE OBSTACLES
IN GETTING ELECTRIC CARS OFF THE
GROUND- WAR, PANDEMIC, ENGINEER
241
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:44,229
SHORTAGES- ONE THING IS WORKING
IN VOLKSWAGEN'S FAVOR:
RISING GAS PRICES MAKE ELECTRIC
VEHICLES MORE APPEALING.
242
00:27:44,295 --> 00:27:55,106
LAST YEAR, HERBERT DIESS SOLD
MORE ELECTRIC CARS OF ALL TYPES
THAN ANYONE, EXCEPT ELON MUSK.
HOW CLOSE ARE YOU IN TERMS OF
243
00:27:55,173 --> 00:28:01,212
SELLING ELECTRIC CARS WORLDWIDE,
TO TESLA?
>> Diess: WE ARE SECOND, YEAH,
WORLDWIDE.
244
00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:06,017
SO, TESLA IS AHEAD--
>> Stahl: BUT SECOND BY A MILE?
OR CLOSE--
>> Diess: TESLA IS QUITE AHEAD
245
00:28:06,084 --> 00:28:10,088
CURRENTLY, AND THEY'RE GROWING
FAST, I HAVE TO ADMIT.
HE IS TAKING MORE RISKS THAN
WE CAN.
246
00:28:10,155 --> 00:28:14,259
HE'S NOW BUILDING A PLANT IN
BERLIN.
IT'S 200 KILOMETERS FROM OUR
PLANT.
247
00:28:14,325 --> 00:28:17,529
>> Stahl: I SAW THAT.
OH, MY GOODNESS.
>> Diess: AND I THINK IT'S VERY
HEALTHY FOR US, NO, TO HAVE A
248
00:28:17,595 --> 00:28:21,966
NEW COMPETITOR--
>> Stahl: YOU DO?
>> Diess: YES, DEFINITELY.
>> Stahl: THERE WAS CRITICISM
249
00:28:22,033 --> 00:28:32,510
FROM YOUR WORKERS THAT YOU'RE
SETTING HIM UP AS THE BENCHMARK
AND TALKING ABOUT IT, AND THEY
DON'T LIKE IT.
250
00:28:32,577 --> 00:28:34,712
>> Diess: JA, ACTUALLY, YOU'RE
RIGHT.
THEY DON'T LIKE IT.
( LAUGHS )
251
00:28:34,779 --> 00:28:35,313
( TICKING )
252
00:28:43,721 --> 00:28:50,895
( TICKING )
>> Cooper: IF YOU'VE EVER HAD
THE FANTASY OF SOARING OVER
BUMPER-TO-BUMPER TRAFFIC IN A
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00:28:50,962 --> 00:28:57,001
FLYING VEHICLE, THAT MAY BE
POSSIBLE SOONER THAN YOU THINK.
NOT WITH A FLYING CAR, BUT WITH
A BATTERY-POWERED AIRCRAFT
254
00:28:57,068 --> 00:29:06,511
CALLED AN eVTOL, A CLUNKY
ACRONYM FOR ELECTRIC VERTICAL
TAKEOFF AND LANDING.
DOZENS OF COMPANIES ARE SPENDING
255
00:29:06,578 --> 00:29:12,650
BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO MAKE
eVTOLs THAT WILL OPERATE LIKE
AIR TAXIS, TAKING OFF AND
LANDING FROM WHAT ARE CALLED
256
00:29:12,717 --> 00:29:20,592
VERTIPORTS ON THE TOPS OF
BUILDINGS, PARKING GARAGES, OR
HELIPADS IN CONGESTED CITIES.
eVTOLs PROMISE A FASTER, SAFER
257
00:29:20,658 --> 00:29:26,764
AND GREENER MODE OF
TRANSPORTATION, POTENTIALLY
CHANGING THE WAY WE WORK AND
LIVE.
258
00:29:26,831 --> 00:29:33,171
SOUND TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE?
WE WENT FOR A JOYRIDE TO FIND
OUT.
>> Jace McCown: I WILL ARM THE
259
00:29:33,238 --> 00:29:39,644
AIRCRAFT IF YOU ARE READY.
>> Cooper: YEAH, TOTALLY.
>> CONFIRMED CLEAR ABOVE.
>> Cooper: IF THIS LOOKS LIKE AN
260
00:29:39,711 --> 00:29:46,518
OVERSIZED DRONE I'M ABOUT TO
TAKE OFF IN, THAT'S PRETTY MUCH
WHAT IT IS.
>> McCown: BREAKING GROUND RIGHT
261
00:29:46,584 --> 00:29:52,557
THERE.
>> Cooper: IT'S A SINGLE-SEAT
eVTOL CALLED HEXA, POWERED BY 18
PROPELLERS, EACH WITH ITS OWN
262
00:29:52,624 --> 00:29:59,264
BATTERY.
NO JET FUEL REQUIRED.
>> McCown: YOU ARE IN CONTROL.
>> Cooper: ONBOARD COMPUTERS
263
00:29:59,330 --> 00:30:04,769
AUTOMATICALLY ADJUST FOR
ALTITUDE AND WIND--
YOU CAN REALLY FEEL THE WIND UP
HERE.
264
00:30:04,836 --> 00:30:10,175
--SO ALL I HAD TO DO WAS USE A
JOYSTICK TO CONTROL HEXA'S
MOVEMENT AND SPEED.
IT TOOK ABOUT 30 MINUTES OF
265
00:30:10,241 --> 00:30:16,781
PRE-FLIGHT TRAINING TO GET THE
HANG OF IT.
>> McCown: USE THAT YAW TO
ROTATE 90 DEGREES.
266
00:30:16,848 --> 00:30:24,322
WONDERFUL.
>> Cooper: HEXA IS STILL IN ITS
TESTING PHASE, SO I HAD TO STAY
CLOSE TO CHIEF PILOT JACE McCOWN
267
00:30:24,389 --> 00:30:32,697
AND HIS GROUND CREW.
BUT THEY SAY IT'S FLOWN UP TO
90 FEET IN THE AIR AND 45 MILES
PER HOUR.
268
00:30:32,764 --> 00:30:35,800
>> McCown: WHENEVER YOU'RE
READY, YOU CAN COME BACK TO
HOME.
>> Cooper: THE BATTERIES LAST UP
269
00:30:35,867 --> 00:30:39,737
TO 15 MINUTES.
I WAS GOING TO TRY TO LAND OVER
THE CAMERAS.
>> McCown: OKAY, YEAH,
270
00:30:39,804 --> 00:30:42,273
ABSOLUTELY.
>> Cooper: TO LAND, I MANEUVERED
HEXA INTO POSITION, PRESSED A
BUTTON, AND THE COMPUTERS DID
271
00:30:42,340 --> 00:30:52,483
THE REST.
>> McCown: RIGHT THERE, YOU ARE
ON THE GROUND.
AND THE PROPS ARE SPINNING DOWN.
272
00:30:52,550 --> 00:30:55,653
>> Cooper: THAT IS COOL.
( LAUGHS )
I CAN'T STOP LAUGHING.
>> Matt Chasen: PIECE OF CAKE,
273
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,922
RIGHT?
>> Cooper: THAT WAS AWESOME.
>> Chasen: WAS IT FUN?
>> Cooper: THAT WAS SO MUCH FUN.
274
00:30:57,989 --> 00:31:00,358
>> Chasen: YES!
I LOVE IT.
>> Cooper: WOW.
I SO JUST WANT TO, LIKE, TAKE
275
00:31:00,425 --> 00:31:07,799
OFF WITH IT.
>> Chasen: I KNOW.
>> Cooper: MATT CHASEN IS C.E.O.
OF AUSTIN-BASED LIFT AIRCRAFT,
276
00:31:07,865 --> 00:31:13,304
WHICH MAKES HEXA.
HE ENVISIONS A FUTURE WHERE IT'S
USED BY COMMUTERS TO SKIP RUSH
HOUR TRAFFIC.
277
00:31:13,371 --> 00:31:17,041
>> Chasen: YOU CAN FLY TEN MILES
IN TEN MINUTES INSTEAD OF
SPENDING OVER AN HOUR ON THE
ROADS DURING RUSH HOUR
278
00:31:17,108 --> 00:31:22,747
CONGESTION.
>> Cooper: WOULD IT BE SOMETHING
THAT AN INDIVIDUAL THEN IN THE
FUTURE OWNS AND FLIES FROM THEIR
279
00:31:22,814 --> 00:31:25,817
HOUSE TO SOMEWHERE?
>> Chasen: WE DON'T SEE
INDIVIDUAL OWNERSHIP AS VERY
PRACTICAL.
280
00:31:25,883 --> 00:31:32,824
THESE ARE-- THESE ARE VERY
EXPENSIVE AIRCRAFT.
WE SEE PUTTING FLEETS OF
AIRCRAFT AT LOCATIONS WHERE WE
281
00:31:32,890 --> 00:31:38,763
PROVIDE MAINTENANCE, WE PROVIDE
TRAINING, AND PEOPLE CAN COME IN
AND BASICALLY PAY PER FLIGHT.
>> Cooper: BUT THAT'S STILL A
282
00:31:38,830 --> 00:31:44,836
LONG WAY OFF.
FEDERAL, STATE, AND LOCAL
REGULATORS-- NOT TO MENTION
THE NATION'S AIRSPACE-- AREN'T
283
00:31:44,902 --> 00:31:54,379
READY FOR HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS
OF COMMUTERS PILOTING THEIR OWN
eVTOLs IN THE SKIES OVER
CONGESTED CITIES.
284
00:31:54,445 --> 00:32:00,818
SO, TO GIVE PEOPLE A TASTE OF
THE FUTURE NOW, CHASEN DESIGNED
HEXA AS AN ULTRA-LIGHT VEHICLE,
WHICH MEANS IT DOESN'T HAVE TO
285
00:32:00,885 --> 00:32:08,026
GO THROUGH THE FEDERAL AVIATION
ADMINISTRATION'S COMPLEX
CERTIFICATION PROCESS, BUT ALSO
CAN'T FLY OVER POPULATED AREAS.
286
00:32:08,092 --> 00:32:15,833
CHASEN PLANS TO START OFFERING
RIDES TO PAYING CUSTOMERS FOR
$250 BY THE END OF THIS YEAR.
THE INITIAL MARKET YOU SEE IS
287
00:32:15,900 --> 00:32:20,938
ESSENTIALLY JOY RIDES FOR
PEOPLE?
>> Chasen: YEAH, I THINK THERE'S
A HUGE MARKET FOR PEOPLE TO
288
00:32:21,005 --> 00:32:29,113
JUST EXPERIENCE THE THRILL AND
JOY OF FLIGHT.
>> Cooper: AROUND THE WORLD,
ALL KINDS OF eVTOLs ARE BEING
289
00:32:29,180 --> 00:32:34,919
DEVELOPED; CARGO CARRIERS, AIR
AMBULANCES, AND A WHOLE LOT OF
AIR TAXIS-- SOME WITH A PILOT,
SOME WITHOUT.
290
00:32:34,986 --> 00:32:43,928
THE AIR FORCE IS INVESTING.
SO IS AIRBUS AND AMERICAN
AIRLINES.
AND DOZENS OF COMPANIES ARE
291
00:32:43,995 --> 00:32:51,569
ALREADY WORKING WITH THE F.A.A.
IT'S NOT THE FLYING CARS
THAT SCIENCE FICTION MOVIES
ANTICIPATED?
292
00:32:51,636 --> 00:32:55,973
>> Billy Nolen: NO, BUT WHEN YOU
THINK ABOUT IT, I-- I LOOK
BACK OVER THE ARC OF MY OWN
CAREER HAVING BEEN A PILOT FOR
293
00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:02,680
42 YEARS, AND I'M JUST AMAZED BY
THE AMOUNT OF INNOVATION THAT
HAS TAKEN PLACE.
>> Cooper: BILLY NOLEN WAS HEAD
294
00:33:02,747 --> 00:33:09,520
OF SAFETY FOR THE F.A.A. BEFORE
BEING NAMED ACTING ADMINISTRATOR
LAST MONTH.
HOW DIFFICULT A CERTIFICATION
295
00:33:09,587 --> 00:33:13,391
PROCESS IS THERE?
BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF MOVING
PARTS TO THIS.
>> Nolen: FIRST, WE HAVE TO
296
00:33:13,458 --> 00:33:17,962
CERTIFY THE DESIGN OF THE--
OF THE AIRCRAFT ITSELF.
AND THEN WE LOOK AT HOW IT WILL
OPERATE.
297
00:33:18,029 --> 00:33:21,866
IS IT PILOTED?
IS IT AUTONOMOUS?
WE LOOK AT WHERE IT WILL
OPERATE.
298
00:33:21,933 --> 00:33:29,340
SO, THAT MEANS, HOW DO WE PUT IT
WITHIN OUR NATION'S AIR SPACE?
SO, ONCE IT'S MET THAT SAFETY
THRESHOLD, AND ONLY UNTIL IT'S
299
00:33:29,407 --> 00:33:36,114
MET THAT SAFETY THRESHOLD,
WILL WE BE-- BE PREPARED TO
CERTIFY IT.
>> Cooper: SOME eVTOL COMPANIES
300
00:33:36,180 --> 00:33:43,855
ARE WELL ON THEIR WAY.
WE FLEW IN A GAS-GUZZLING
HELICOPTER WITH ONE OF THE
FRONTRUNNERS IN THE AIR TAXI
301
00:33:43,921 --> 00:33:49,460
ARMS RACE, JOEBEN BEVIRT, C.E.O.
OF JOBY AVIATION.
HE TOOK US TO THIS REMOTE
FACILITY IN CALIFORNIA, WHERE
302
00:33:49,527 --> 00:33:57,869
HE'S TESTING HIS eVTOL, THE
JOBY AIRCRAFT.
AS WE LANDED, IT FELT LIKE THE
OLD GUARD MEETING THE NEW.
303
00:33:57,935 --> 00:34:04,142
OBVIOUSLY, IT'S A COMBINATION OF
A HELICOPTER AND A PLANE?
>> Joeben Bevirt: EXACTLY.
SO, IT CAN TAKE OFF LIKE A
304
00:34:04,208 --> 00:34:08,012
HELICOPTER, BUT IT FLIES WITH
THE EFFICIENCY OF AN AIRPLANE.
>> Cooper: BEVIRT HAS BEEN
WORKING ON THE JOBY FOR MORE
305
00:34:08,079 --> 00:34:14,018
THAN A DECADE.
IT HAS SIX PROPELLERS AND FOUR
BATTERIES IN ITS WINGS, AND WILL
OPERATE AS AN AIR TAXI, CARRYING
306
00:34:14,085 --> 00:34:22,293
A PILOT AND FOUR PASSENGERS.
HE SAYS IT CAN FLY 150 MILES
ON A SINGLE CHARGE AND HAS A
TOP SPEED OF AROUND 200 MILES
307
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:29,467
AN HOUR.
WHY THIS DESIGN?
>> Bevirt: SO, VERTICAL TAKE OFF
IS IMPORTANT, SO IT CAN TAKE YOU
308
00:34:29,534 --> 00:34:35,706
TO WHERE YOU WANT TO GO, RIGHT?
WE DON'T NEED A HUGE RUNWAY.
AND THEN WITH THE WING, IT GIVES
YOU THE EFFICIENCY TO FLY FAR
309
00:34:35,773 --> 00:34:42,079
AND TO FLY FAST.
>> PILOT, YOU'RE CLEARED FLIGHT
FLEX ALPHA.
>> Cooper: BECAUSE IT'S STILL
310
00:34:42,146 --> 00:34:46,150
BEING TESTED, THE JOBY WAS
PILOTED REMOTELY BY A NEARBY
GROUND CREW.
>> FOR FLIGHT--
311
00:34:46,217 --> 00:34:52,190
>> Cooper: WHEN THEY FIRED UP
THE MOTORS, UNLIKE A HELICOPTER,
THE JOBY DIDN'T NEED TIME TO
WARM UP.
312
00:34:52,256 --> 00:34:59,096
IT TOOK OFF IN ABOUT 20 SECONDS.
THAT'S IT?
THAT'S REALLY QUIET.
>> Bevirt: WE WANTED THIS TO
313
00:34:59,163 --> 00:35:05,236
SOUND MORE LIKE THE WIND IN THE
TREES THAN THE "WOP-WOP" OF A
HELICOPTER.
>> Cooper: NOISE LEVELS ARE A
314
00:35:05,303 --> 00:35:12,176
CRITICAL ISSUE SINCE eVTOLs ARE
MEANT TO TAKE OFF AND LAND NEAR
WHERE PEOPLE WORK AND LIVE.
>> Bevirt: THIS IS BELOW THE
315
00:35:12,243 --> 00:35:16,447
BACKGROUND NOISE LEVEL OF MANY
CITIES.
YOU KNOW, I GO AROUND WITH MY
DECIBEL METER ON MY PHONE AND,
316
00:35:16,514 --> 00:35:19,417
LIKE, MEASURE SOUND LEVELS.
( LAUGHS )
>> Cooper: THAT'S WHAT YOU'VE
BEEN DOING FOR TEN YEARS?
317
00:35:19,484 --> 00:35:22,954
>> Bevirt: AND-- AND-- AND--
EXACTLY, BECAUSE WE NEEDED TO
MAKE SURE THAT THE AIRCRAFT WAS
GOING TO BE QUIET ENOUGH.
318
00:35:23,020 --> 00:35:28,593
>> Cooper: BEVIRT STUDIED
MECHANICAL ENGINEERING AT
STANFORD WHERE HE INVENTED THIS
POPULAR FLEXIBLE CAMERA TRIPOD,
319
00:35:28,659 --> 00:35:36,634
AND LATER CREATED A COMPANY THAT
MADE FLYING WIND TURBINES.
BUT THE JOBY HAD REMAINED AN
ELUSIVE DREAM.
320
00:35:36,701 --> 00:35:42,373
>> Bevirt: THERE WERE DEFINITELY
SKEPTICS-- EVEN, YOU KNOW, GOOD
FRIENDS OF MINE-- WHO DIDN'T
BELIEVE THAT YOU COULD MAKE THIS
321
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,077
WITH BATTERIES AND ELECTRIC
PROPULSION.
>> Cooper: THE BATTERY
TECHNOLOGY JUST WASN'T THERE, IT
322
00:35:46,143 --> 00:35:51,482
WOULDN'T WORK?
>> Bevirt: YEAH.
>> Cooper: BEVIRT HIRED JON
WAGNER AWAY FROM TESLA, WHERE HE
323
00:35:51,549 --> 00:35:57,121
HELPED DEVELOP THE CAR'S
REVOLUTIONARY BATTERIES.
AT JOBY, HE FIGURED OUT A WAY TO
MAKE THE BATTERIES LIGHTER, BUT
324
00:35:57,188 --> 00:36:05,062
STILL POWERFUL ENOUGH TO GET THE
TWO-TON eVTOL OFF THE GROUND.
>> Jon Wagner: YOU HAD TO PLAY
TO THE STRENGTHS OF BATTERY
325
00:36:05,129 --> 00:36:11,335
POWER, AND THE STRENGTHS OF
ELECTRIC MOTORS.
SO, A TYPICAL AIRCRAFT MIGHT
HAVE ONE BIG MOTOR, BUT WE CAN
326
00:36:11,402 --> 00:36:17,041
HAVE SIX MOTORS DISTRIBUTED
THROUGHOUT THE AIRCRAFT, AND IN
THAT WAY, OPERATE IN A MUCH MORE
EFFICIENT MANNER.
327
00:36:17,108 --> 00:36:20,778
>> Cooper: THE WEIGHT OF
EVERYTHING MUST BE THE MOST
IMPORTANT THING?
>> Wagner: ABSOLUTELY.
328
00:36:20,845 --> 00:36:26,751
>> Cooper: SO, HOW DO YOU MAKE A
PLANE AS LIGHT AS POSSIBLE?
>> Wagner: YOU ESSENTIALLY HAVE
TO ENGINEER EVERY PIECE OF IT.
329
00:36:26,817 --> 00:36:32,456
>> Cooper: THE OUTSIDE OF THE
JOBY IS MADE WITH LAYERS OF
LIGHTWEIGHT CARBON FIBER.
THE BATTERIES, AS WELL AS
330
00:36:32,523 --> 00:36:39,063
COMPUTERS, ELECTRONICS, AND
MOTORS, ARE CONSTRUCTED UNDER
JON WAGNER'S WATCH.
THEN HIS TEAM SHAKES, BAKES AND
331
00:36:39,130 --> 00:36:45,169
SPINS THEM TO ENSURE THEY'LL
MEET THE F.A.A.'S RIGOROUS
SAFETY STANDARDS.
THEY HAVE TO CERTIFY THE
332
00:36:45,236 --> 00:36:50,775
AIRCRAFT AS BEING SAFE AND
CAPABLE OF FLYING TO THEIR
STANDARDS.
THEY ALSO HAVE TO CERTIFY
333
00:36:50,841 --> 00:36:56,147
THE PRODUCTION OF ALL THE PARTS
OF IT?
>> Bevirt: EXACTLY, THE
OPERATION, THE PILOT TRAINING,
334
00:36:56,213 --> 00:37:01,719
THE MAINTENANCE STEPS.
EVRY FACET IS HEAVILY
REGULATED.
>> Cooper: ALL THIS COSTS A LOT
335
00:37:01,786 --> 00:37:11,429
OF MONEY.
TOYOTA HAS INVESTED ABOUT $400
MILLION IN JOBY, AND BEVIRT TOOK
THE COMPANY PUBLIC LAST YEAR.
336
00:37:11,495 --> 00:37:14,465
>> Paul Sciarra: I THINK THE
TEXTURE'S GOOD.
>> Cooper: BILLIONAIRE PAUL
SCIARRA, CO-FOUNDER OF THE
337
00:37:14,532 --> 00:37:20,771
WEBSITE PINTEREST, HAS ALSO
PUT IN A SMALL FORTUNE.
HE'S JOBY'S EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN,
AND SAYS THEY'LL LAUNCH IN UP TO
338
00:37:20,838 --> 00:37:29,246
THREE CITIES, AND THAT
PASSENGERS WILL EVENTUALLY END
UP PAYING AROUND $3 TO $4 A MILE
TO FLY-- A LITTLE MORE THAN AN
339
00:37:29,313 --> 00:37:34,085
AVERAGE UBER RIDE.
CAN YOU JUST TAKE ME THROUGH, AS
A PASSENGER, WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE?
I WANT TO GET TO J.F.K. AIRPORT.
340
00:37:34,151 --> 00:37:39,223
IT'S BUMPER-TO-BUMPER TRAFFIC.
WHAT DO I DO?
>> Sciarra: TAKE OUT YOUR PHONE,
PULL OUT AN APP, AND WITH
341
00:37:39,290 --> 00:37:44,662
ONE CLICK, YOU'RE BOOKING THE
WHOLE TRIP.
SO, A CAR IS COMING TO WHEREVER
YOU ARE IN MANHATTAN, IT'S
342
00:37:44,729 --> 00:37:50,801
TAKING YOU TO THE TAKE-OFF AND
LANDING LOCATION, THE VERTIPORT.
AND YOU'RE HOPPING IN YOUR JOBY
AND IT'S FLYING YOU TO YOUR
343
00:37:50,868 --> 00:37:56,240
FINAL DESTINATION.
NOW, MAYBE THERE'S A CAR AT THE
OTHER END, OR YOU'RE JUST
WALKING TO THE TAIL END.
344
00:37:56,307 --> 00:38:01,245
>> Cooper: IF PEOPLE ARE TAKING
CARS TO AND FROM VERTIPORTS--
DOESN'T THAT JUST ADD TO
CONGESTION?
345
00:38:01,312 --> 00:38:08,719
>> Sciarra: IF WE'RE ABLE TO,
YOU KNOW, TAKE OUT 80% OF THE
MILES THAT PEOPLE MIGHT BE
TRAVELING AND MOVE THOSE MILES
346
00:38:08,786 --> 00:38:16,060
FROM CONGESTED ROADS TO THE AIR,
I THINK THAT'S GOING TO HAVE AN
IMPACT.
>> Cooper: BUT JUST A FEW WEEKS
347
00:38:16,127 --> 00:38:23,501
AFTER WE SAW THIS JOBY AIRCRAFT
FLY, IT CRASHED IN FEBRUARY, DUE
TO WHAT FEDERAL INVESTIGATORS
CALLED A COMPONENT FAILURE.
348
00:38:23,567 --> 00:38:29,306
NO ONE WAS HURT, BUT THE eVTOL
WAS TOTALED.
BEVIRT SAYS THAT'S ALL PART OF
THE TESTING PROCESS, AND IS AS
349
00:38:29,373 --> 00:38:37,314
OPTIMISTIC NOW AS HE WAS WHEN WE
INTERVIEWED HIM.
HOW FAR ARE YOU FROM GETTING THE
FIRST JOBY IN THE SKY WITH
350
00:38:37,381 --> 00:38:41,385
PASSENGERS?
>> Bevirt: SO, WE ARE LAUNCHING
OUR SERVICE IN 2024.
>> Cooper: YOU THINK YOU CAN DO
351
00:38:41,452 --> 00:38:44,121
IT THAT QUICKLY?
>> Bevirt: YES.
>> Cooper: THERE HAVE BEEN,
THOUGH, A LOT OF COMPANIES THAT
352
00:38:44,188 --> 00:38:50,227
HAVE SAID, "OH, WE'RE GOING TO
DO THIS IN TWO YEARS," AND THEN
IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.
>> Bevirt: WE'RE VERY CONFIDENT.
353
00:38:50,294 --> 00:38:56,267
>> Cooper: THERE'S A LOT OF
CONFIDENCE OVER AT WISK AERO AS
WELL, THOUGH THE eVTOL THEY ARE
DEVELOPING WILL BE EVEN MORE
354
00:38:56,333 --> 00:39:05,109
COMPLICATED TO BRING TO MARKET
BECAUSE IT'S FULLY AUTONOMOUS.
THERE WILL BE PASSENGERS, BUT NO
PILOT ON BOARD.
355
00:39:05,176 --> 00:39:09,814
YOU'RE NOT JUST FIGURING OUT AN
ELECTRIC VEHICLE, YOU'RE
FIGURING OUT A FULLY AUTONOMOUS
FLYING VEHICLE?
356
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:14,051
>> Gary Gysin: THAT'S RIGHT.
THAT'S RIGHT.
WE'RE GOING FOR IT.
( LAUGHS )
357
00:39:14,118 --> 00:39:19,890
YOU AND I TALKED ABOUT THAT.
>> Cooper: C.E.O. GARY GYSIN
SAYS THEY'RE ON TRACK TO SPEND
ABOUT $2 BILLION.
358
00:39:19,957 --> 00:39:25,162
THE COMPANY IS BANKROLLED BY
BOEING, AND GOOGLE CO-FOUNDER
LARRY PAGE.
THEY'VE BEEN TESTING THE
359
00:39:25,229 --> 00:39:31,402
TECHNOLOGY FOR THE LAST EIGHT
YEARS.
>> CONTROL'S IN POSITION FOR
LIFT-OFF.
360
00:39:31,469 --> 00:39:35,306
>> Cooper: SO, HOW MANY TEST
FLIGHTS HAVE YOU ACTUALLY DONE?
>> Gysin: SO, CLOSE-- CLOSE TO
1,600 TEST FLIGHTS WITHOUT,
361
00:39:35,372 --> 00:39:41,912
YOU KNOW-- KNOCK ON WOOD,
WITHOUT AN INCIDENT.
>> SELECTING LIFT-OFF NOW.
>> Cooper: WE WATCHED ONE OF
362
00:39:41,979 --> 00:39:47,218
THOSE TEST FLIGHTS IN HOLLISTER,
CALIFORNIA.
A TEAM OF ENGINEERS ABOUT HALF A
MILE AWAY STARTED THE eVTOL WITH
363
00:39:47,284 --> 00:39:56,427
THE CLICK OF A MOUSE.
THE ENTIRE ROUTE WAS PRE-
PROGRAMMED.
WHY AUTONOMOUS?
364
00:39:56,494 --> 00:39:59,463
WHY GO THIS ROUTE?
>> Gysin: YEAH.
SO, WE'RE GOING STRAIGHT TO
SELF-FLYING.
365
00:39:59,530 --> 00:40:05,369
SEVERAL REASONS.
ONE, IT'S SAFER.
>> Cooper: SAFER, HE SAYS,
BECAUSE MOST PLANE ACCIDENTS
366
00:40:05,436 --> 00:40:13,310
INVOLVE HUMAN ERROR.
MUCH OF COMMERCIAL AVIATION IS
ALREADY AUTOMATED, AND GYSIN
SEES THE ENTIRE eVTOL INDUSTRY
367
00:40:13,377 --> 00:40:17,515
GOING THAT WAY EVENTUALLY.
HE IS DETERMINED TO GET THERE
FIRST.
>> Gysin: WE DO IT PRIMARILY
368
00:40:17,581 --> 00:40:21,552
FROM A SAFETY PERSPECTIVE, BUT
ALSO SCALE.
SO, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A PILOT IN
THE AIRCRAFT, IT'S LESS
369
00:40:21,619 --> 00:40:26,357
EXPENSIVE.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO PILOT
TRAINING.
YOU'RE FLYING FOUR PASSENGERS.
370
00:40:26,423 --> 00:40:34,932
WE CAN CHARGE LESS.
WE DON'T WANT THIS TO BE A
PREMIUM HELICOPTER-LIKE SERVICE.
WE WANT THIS TO BE A SERVICE
371
00:40:34,999 --> 00:40:38,969
THAT'S AFFORDABLE TO THE MASSES.
>> Cooper: THERE IS A HURDLE,
PSYCHOLOGICALLY, FOR PEOPLE TO
GET INTO AN AIRCRAFT THAT DOES
372
00:40:39,036 --> 00:40:44,341
NOT HAVE A HUMAN AT THE
CONTROLS.
>> Gysin: OF COURSE.
AND SO, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO
373
00:40:44,408 --> 00:40:49,914
WITH THAT IS EACH PASSENGER CAN
BE IN VERBAL COMMUNICATION WITH
THE GROUND.
THEY CAN BE TALKING TO A PILOT
374
00:40:49,980 --> 00:40:56,287
WHENEVER THEY WANT TO.
SO, IT'S ALL DESIGNED TO PROVIDE
COMFORT.
IT WILL TAKE TIME.
375
00:40:56,353 --> 00:41:00,424
THIS ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN
OVERNIGHT.
>> Cooper: GYSIN WANTS TO
LAUNCH WISK'S FOUR-SEATER
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00:41:00,491 --> 00:41:07,631
AIR TAXI SERVICE IN THE WORLD'S
20 BUSIEST CITIES WITHIN THE
NEXT DECADE.
>> WHEELS DOWN.
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00:41:07,698 --> 00:41:10,201
>> Cooper: YOU DON'T GIVE A DATE
OF WHEN YOU THINK YOU'LL BE
OPERATIONAL?
>> Gysin: YEAH, YOU KNOW WHY WE
378
00:41:10,267 --> 00:41:14,805
DON'T DO THAT?
BECAUSE WE ARE NOT IN CONTROL OF
THAT PART.
THE F.A.A. IS.
379
00:41:14,872 --> 00:41:22,746
IN EUROPE, IT'S CALLED EASA.
THEY'RE IN CHARGE.
SO, WHEN THEY CERTIFY AIRCRAFT
TO FLY, THAT'S WHEN YOU FLY.
380
00:41:22,813 --> 00:41:29,386
>> Cooper: THE F.A.A. WON'T SAY
WHEN AN AUTONOMOUS eVTOL MIGHT
BE CERTIFIED, BUT ACTING
ADMINISTRATOR BILLY NOLEN TOLD
381
00:41:29,453 --> 00:41:36,927
US, HAILING A PILOTED AIR TAXI
BY 2024 IS WELL WITHIN THE REALM
OF POSSIBILITY.
>> Nolen: THE CHALLENGE FOR US
382
00:41:36,994 --> 00:41:44,001
IT TO MAKE SURE THAT INNOVATION
DOESN'T COME AT THE EXPENSE OF
SAFETY.
BUT CLEARLY, WE ARE SEEING THE
383
00:41:44,068 --> 00:41:49,440
EMERGENCE OF SOMETHING THAT'S
FANTASTIC, I THINK.
>> Cooper: THIS IS REAL?
I MEAN, THIS IS NO LONGER JUST
384
00:41:49,506 --> 00:41:54,545
THE STUFF OF FANTASY?
>> Nolen: WE WANT TO BE VERY
CAREFUL.
WE WANT TO BE VERY MEASURED.
385
00:41:54,612 --> 00:41:59,783
BUT YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
THIS IS REAL.
AND THIS IS HAPPENING.
WE'VE COME A LONG WAY FROM
386
00:41:59,850 --> 00:42:04,388
WHERE WE WERE JUST, YOU KNOW, A
MERE DECADE AGO.
( TICKING )
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00:42:07,524 --> 00:42:13,497
>> Cooper: IT'S REALLY COOL!
>> TAKING FLIGHT WITH ANDERSON
COOPER, AT
60minutesovertime.com.
388
00:42:13,564 --> 00:42:20,771
SPONSORED BY COLOGUARD.
389
00:42:24,508 --> 00:42:30,281
>> Stahl: TONIGHT, JEWS ARE
OBSERVING THE THIRD NIGHT OF
PASSOVER, WESTERN CHRISTIANS
ARE CELEBRATING EASTER SUNDAY,
390
00:42:30,347 --> 00:42:37,154
AND ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS ARE
BEGINNING HOLY WEEK.
IT IS A SACRED TIME, WHEN HOPE
IS RENEWED, WHEN DEATH DOESN'T
391
00:42:37,221 --> 00:42:44,662
HAVE THE LAST WORD, WHEN FREEDOM
OVERCOMES REPRESSION.
THIS YEAR, IN UKRAINE, DEATH
APPEARS TO BE HAVING ITS DAY.
392
00:42:44,728 --> 00:42:55,773
IN MARIUPOL, AN EXODUS OF
UKRAINIANS IS IMPEDED BY
RUSSIAN BOMBS.
IN BUCHA, INSTEAD OF AN
393
00:42:55,839 --> 00:43:05,182
EMPTY TOMB, WE SEE MASS GRAVES
BEHIND THE CHURCH OF ST. ANDREW.
CITIES LAID TO WASTE,
CIVILIAN POPULATIONS WITHOUT
394
00:43:05,249 --> 00:43:10,387
FOOD OR WATER, OR A ROOF OVER
THEIR HEADS.
THIS IS EASTER.
THIS IS PASSOVER.
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00:43:10,454 --> 00:43:17,861
EVEN IN UKRAINE, BRAVELY,
AND WITH THE HELP OF MUCH
OF THE WORLD, IT IS A SEASON
HOLDING THE PROMISE OF FREEDOM,
396
00:43:17,928 --> 00:43:23,834
AND HOPE.
I'M LESLEY STAHL.
WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK WITH
ANOTHER EDITION OF "60 MINUTES."
397
00:43:23,901 --> 00:43:32,943
( TICKING )
Captioning funded by CBS
and FORD.