1 00:00:09,409 --> 00:00:14,881 >> WE ARE SEEING EVOLVING INTELLIGENCE ABOUT RUSSIAN PLANNING FOR POTENTIAL ATTACKS. WE HAVE TO ASSUME THAT THERE'S 2 00:00:14,948 --> 00:00:22,222 GOING TO BE A BREACH. THERE'S GOING TO BE AN INCIDENT. THERE'S GOING TO BE AN ATTACK. >> WHEN YOU'VE GOT SOMEONE LIKE 3 00:00:22,288 --> 00:00:28,395 VLADIMIR PUTIN, WHO JUST DOESN'T SEEM TO CARE ABOUT NORMS, HOW DO YOU PROTECT AGAINST THAT? >> I THINK WE ARE DEALING 4 00:00:28,461 --> 00:00:38,171 WITH A VERY DANGEROUS, VERY SOPHISTICATED, VERY WELL-RESOURCED CYBER ACTOR. AND THAT'S WHY WE'VE BEEN 5 00:00:38,238 --> 00:00:45,111 TELLING EVERYBODY, CONSISTENTLY, SHIELDS UP. ( TICKING ) 6 00:00:45,678 --> 00:00:53,686 >> VOLKSWAGEN MAKES MORE THAN JUST VOLKSWAGENS. THEY ALSO MAKE AUDIS, PORSCHES, LAMBORGHINIS, AND BENTLEYS. 7 00:00:53,753 --> 00:01:01,661 BUT AS WE FOUND OUT, V.W. IS DEALING WITH A MYRIAD OF CHALLENGES-- OH, OH! 8 00:01:01,728 --> 00:01:10,804 --ALL AT HIGH SPEED, AS THEY ATTEMPT TO BECOME 50% ELECTRIC BY THE END OF THE DECADE, ALL THE WHILE WATCHING THE WAR IN 9 00:01:10,870 --> 00:01:17,377 UKRAINE, JUST A FEW HOURS AWAY. ( TICKING ) 10 00:01:18,478 --> 00:01:25,685 >> THIS IS CALLED AN eVTOL, A CLUNKY ACRONYM FOR ELECTRIC VERTICAL TAKEOFF AND LANDING AIRCRAFT. 11 00:01:25,752 --> 00:01:31,524 IN THE NEAR FUTURE, AN ENTIRE INDUSTRY HOPES TO HAVE THESE ELECTRIC VEHICLES AVAILABLE SO YOU CAN SOAR OVER BUMPER-TO- 12 00:01:31,591 --> 00:01:39,365 BUMPER TRAFFIC- IN SOME, FOR ABOUT THE COST OF AN UBER. ( TICKING ) 13 00:01:39,899 --> 00:01:44,270 >> I'M LESLEY STAHL. >> I'M BILL WHITAKER. >> I'M ANDERSON COOPER. >> I'M SHARYN ALFONSI. 14 00:01:44,337 --> 00:01:49,809 >> I'M JON WERTHEIM. >> I'M SCOTT PELLEY. THOSE STORIES and more, TONIGHT, ON "60 MINUTES." 15 00:01:49,876 --> 00:01:53,613 ( TICKING ) 16 00:02:03,256 --> 00:02:07,160 >> Whitaker: THIS PAST WEEK, THE U.S. GOVERNMENT ISSUED AN URGENT WARNING ABOUT DANGEROUS NEW MALWARE THAT COULD CRIPPLE 17 00:02:07,227 --> 00:02:15,668 INDUSTRIAL SYSTEMS WORLDWIDE. IT COMES ON THE HEELS OF UKRAINE WITHSTANDING AN ATTEMPT BY RUSSIAN HACKERS TO KNOCK OUT 18 00:02:15,735 --> 00:02:23,176 POWER TO TWO MILLION PEOPLE IN THAT WAR-TORN COUNTRY. THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN RELEASING SENSITIVE 19 00:02:23,243 --> 00:02:31,184 INTELLIGENCE AND DIRE WARNINGS THAT THE KREMLIN IS PREPARING TO LAUNCH A NEW GENERATION OF CYBERATTACKS ON AMERICAN SOIL. 20 00:02:31,251 --> 00:02:39,459 U.S. CYBER DEFENDERS TELL US, THEY ARE NOW WATCHING RUSSIAN STATE ACTORS PROBE SOME OF OUR MOST CRITICAL SYSTEMS, AND ARE 21 00:02:39,526 --> 00:02:48,034 BRACING THEMSELVES-— ESPECIALLY AT THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY-— WITH AN INITIATIVE CALLED "SHIELDS UP." 22 00:02:48,101 --> 00:02:54,040 >> Jen Easterly: WE ARE SEEING EVOLVING INTELLIGENCE ABOUT RUSSIAN PLANNING FOR POTENTIAL ATTACKS. 23 00:02:54,107 --> 00:03:00,480 AND WE HAVE TO ASSUME THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE A BREACH. THERE'S GOING TO BE AN INCIDENT. THERE'S GOING TO BE AN ATTACK. 24 00:03:00,547 --> 00:03:05,418 >> Whitaker: JEN EASTERLY IS DIRECTOR OF THE CYBERSECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY AGENCY. 25 00:03:05,485 --> 00:03:13,493 KNOWN BY ITS ACRONYM, CISA, THE AGENCY HELPS SECURE COMPUTER NETWORKS IN 16 SECTORS DEEMED VITAL TO NATIONAL SECURITY, 26 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:19,265 LIKE ENERGY, FINANCE, AND COMMUNICATIONS. >> Easterly: ANYTHING THAT COULD IMPACT CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE. 27 00:03:19,332 --> 00:03:30,109 >> Whitaker: EASTERLY IS NOT YOUR TYPICAL BUREAUCRAT. SHE'S A DECORATED RETIRED ARMY OFFICER WITH TWO BRONZE STARS, 28 00:03:30,176 --> 00:03:34,681 WHO'S ALSO DECORATED WITH A TATTOO, AND NAILS PAINTED THE COLORS OF UKRAINE'S FLAG. SHE'S A TECHIE WITH SERIOUS 29 00:03:34,747 --> 00:03:42,455 CHOPS. A WEST POINT GRADUATE AND A RHODES SCHOLAR, SHE WAS PART OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY'S 30 00:03:42,522 --> 00:03:49,228 ELITE HACKING TEAM, AND WENT ON TO HELP CREATE THE AGENCY'S CYBER COMMAND. WHEN YOU'VE GOT SOMEONE LIKE 31 00:03:49,295 --> 00:03:58,738 VLADIMIR PUTIN, WHO JUST DOESN'T SEEM TO CARE ABOUT NORMS, HOW DO YOU PROTECT AGAINST THAT? >> Easterly: I THINK WE ARE 32 00:03:58,805 --> 00:04:07,313 DEALING WITH A VERY DANGEROUS, VERY SOPHISTICATED, VERY WELL-RESOURCED CYBER ACTOR. AND THAT'S WHY WE'VE BEEN 33 00:04:07,380 --> 00:04:14,320 TELLING EVERYBODY, CONSISTENTLY, "SHIELDS UP." WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? IT MEANS, ASSUME THERE WILL 34 00:04:14,387 --> 00:04:18,057 BE DISRUPTIVE CYBER ACTIVITY, AND MAKE SURE YOU ARE PREPARED FOR IT. ARE YOU GAME? 35 00:04:18,124 --> 00:04:23,997 ARE YOU READY TO HELP MAKE YOURSELF AND OUR NATION MORE SECURE? >> Whitaker: SHE'S TAKEN TO 36 00:04:24,063 --> 00:04:29,402 SOCIAL MEDIA TO ENCOURAGE INDUSTRY TO SHARE INFORMATION WITH GOVERNMENT TO DEFEND AGAINST CYBERATTACKS, AND 37 00:04:29,469 --> 00:04:35,808 CALLS ON ALL AMERICANS TO PUT THEIR SHIELDS UP BY UPDATING SOFTWARE AND USING MULTI-FACTOR AUTHENTICATION ON 38 00:04:35,875 --> 00:04:44,083 COMPUTERS AND PHONES. >> Easterly: I'M A BIG "STAR TREK" FAN, SO, "SHIELDS UP!" AND IT HAS REALLY CAUGHT ON AS 39 00:04:44,150 --> 00:04:50,156 SOMETHING THAT'S ALL ABOUT PREPARATION, NOT PANIC. >> Whitaker: IS THERE ONE SECTOR THAT WORRIES YOU MORE THAN THE 40 00:04:50,223 --> 00:04:55,294 OTHERS? >> Easterly: WE KNOW THAT ENERGY, TARGETING THE ENERGY SECTOR, IS PART OF THE RUSSIAN 41 00:04:55,361 --> 00:05:00,933 PLAY BOOK. BUT ALSO FINANCE, GIVEN POTENTIAL RETALIATORY ATTACKS FOR THE VERY SEVERE SANCTIONS 42 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:07,373 THAT THE U.S. AND OUR ALLIES HAVE IMPOSED AND CONTINUE TO IMPOSE. >> Whitaker: IF I'M JUST SITTING 43 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:14,013 A HOME WATCHING THIS, WHY SHOULD I BE CONCERNED ABOUT A CYBERATTACK? >> Easterly: EVERYTHING THAT 44 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:23,289 YOU DO, HOUR BY HOUR, IS LARGELY DEPENDENT IN SOME WAY ON THE CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE. HOW YOU GET GAS AT THE 45 00:05:23,356 --> 00:05:30,930 LOCAL PUMP, HOW YOU GET FOOD AT THE GROCERY STORE, HOW YOU GET MONEY FROM YOUR A.T.M., HOW YOU GET YOUR POWER, HOW YOU GET YOUR 46 00:05:30,997 --> 00:05:39,038 WATER, HOW YOU COMMUNICATE- ALL OF THAT IS OUR CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE. AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS 47 00:05:39,105 --> 00:05:45,378 AT POTENTIAL RISK TO A RUSSIAN MALICIOUS CYBERATTACK. >> Robert Lee: THERE'S ONLY BEEN ONE COUNTRY OUT THERE THAT'S 48 00:05:45,445 --> 00:05:51,651 ACTUALLY HAD EXPERTISE IN TAKING DOWN ELECTRIC POWER SYSTEMS, AND THAT'S RUSSIA. >> Whitaker: ROBERT LEE, ANOTHER 49 00:05:51,718 --> 00:05:59,392 FORMER N.S.A. HACKER, IS THE CO-FOUNDER OF DRAGOS, A CYBERSECURITY COMPANY. HE'S KNOWN AS A WIZARD OF THE 50 00:05:59,459 --> 00:06:07,433 DARK ARTS OF CYBER WAR, SPECIALIZING IN THE DEFENSE OF CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE. IN 2015, HE INVESTIGATED AN 51 00:06:07,500 --> 00:06:16,275 INCIDENT IN UKRAINE, THE MOST DESTRUCTIVE CYBERATTACK ON CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE THE WORLD HAD EVER SEEN. 52 00:06:16,342 --> 00:06:22,014 WHAT- WHAT'D YOU FIND? >> Lee: THE RUSSIAN STATE BROKE INTO THREE DIFFERENT POWER COMPANIES ACROSS UKRAINE 53 00:06:22,081 --> 00:06:26,419 PROBABLY ABOUT SIX MONTHS AHEAD OF THE ACTUAL ATTACK. SO, THEY BROKE IN OVER THE SUMMER, GOT INTO POSITION, AND 54 00:06:26,486 --> 00:06:35,461 THEY STARTED LEARNING HOW TO OPERATE THOSE SYSTEMS. AND AS A RESULT, THEY DISCONNECTED OVER 60 SUBSTATIONS 55 00:06:35,528 --> 00:06:40,500 ACROSS UKRAINE, AND CAUSED BLACKOUTS FOR AROUND 225,000 CUSTOMERS IN THE DEAD OF WINTER. >> Whitaker: IT WAS ALL DONE 56 00:06:40,566 --> 00:06:50,143 REMOTELY FROM THIS BUILDING IN MOSCOW, BY HACKERS WITH THE MILITARY INTELLIGENCE AGENCY, THE G.R.U.. 57 00:06:50,209 --> 00:06:54,814 THE UKRAINIANS HAD TO SEND UTILITY WORKERS TO THE IMPAIRED SUBSTATIONS TO MANUALLY RESTART EACH ONE. 58 00:06:54,881 --> 00:07:03,890 A YEAR LATER, LEE SAYS, G.R.U. HACKERS WERE BACK WITH A MUCH MORE SOPHISTICATED ATTACK- A PIECE OF MALWARE THAT COULD 59 00:07:03,956 --> 00:07:12,098 CRIPPLE MULTIPLE TRANSMISSION STATIONS WITH ONE KEYSTROKE. WHAT DID IT MEAN THAT RUSSIA WAS ABLE TO DO THIS? 60 00:07:12,165 --> 00:07:16,302 >> Lee: IT WAS A SHOCK TO EVERYBODY, BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF THEORY AROUND HOW YOU COULD DO THIS. 61 00:07:16,369 --> 00:07:20,406 PEOPLE IN MY COMMUNITY ON THE CYBERSECURITY SIDE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR A LONG TIME ON, IT'S POSSIBLE. 62 00:07:20,473 --> 00:07:27,947 BUT TO ACTUALLY SEE IT DEMONSTRATED IS A GIANT PROOF THAT YOU CAN DO IT. AND WE ALSO KNOW NOW, THEY'RE 63 00:07:28,014 --> 00:07:35,021 BOLD ENOUGH TO DO IT. >> Whitaker: COULD THE RUSSIANS DO THE SAME THING HERE IN THE U.S.? 64 00:07:35,087 --> 00:07:42,695 >> Lee: ABSOLUTELY. >> Whitaker: OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, LEE'S CYBERSECURITY COMPANY, DRAGOS, HAS TRACKED THE 65 00:07:42,762 --> 00:07:50,203 SAME G.R.U. HACKING GROUP, KNOWN AMONG RESEARCHERS AS "SANDWORM," INSTALLING MALWARE AND PROBING POWER COMPANIES HERE IN THE U.S. 66 00:07:50,269 --> 00:07:55,074 >> Lee: THERE WAS ABOUT A DOZEN POWER COMPANIES THAT ENDED UP GETTING COMPROMISED IN THE 2014-2015 TIME FRAME BY THE SAME 67 00:07:55,141 --> 00:08:03,916 GROUP THAT ENDED UP TAKING DOWN THE ELECTRIC SYSTEM IN UKRAINE. >> Whitaker: IN THE SUMMER OF 2017, RUSSIAN HACKERS LAUNCHED A 68 00:08:03,983 --> 00:08:11,891 MORE BRAZEN, AND POTENTIALLY MUCH MORE DANGEROUS ATTACK, THIS TIME ON PETRO RABIGH, A MASSIVE OIL REFINERY ALONG THE RED SEA 69 00:08:11,958 --> 00:08:20,733 IN SAUDI ARABIA. ON A FRIDAY NIGHT IN AUGUST, A SAFETY SYSTEM TRIGGERED THE WHOLE PLANT TO SHUT DOWN. 70 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:28,174 JULIAN GUTMANIS WAS WORKING CYBERSECURITY FOR THE SAUDI OIL GIANT ARAMCO, AND RUSHED TO THE SCENE TO INVESTIGATE. 71 00:08:28,241 --> 00:08:34,447 FROM WHAT YOU SAW, YOU- YOU WERE ALARMED? >> Julian Gutmanis: AT THAT STAGE, YES, YEP. 72 00:08:34,513 --> 00:08:39,318 LIKE, WHY IS SOMEBODY GOING AFTER THE SAFETY SYSTEMS ON A WEEKEND, AT NIGHT? IT'S JUST NOT NORMAL. 73 00:08:39,385 --> 00:08:44,590 >> Whitaker: WHAT GUTMANIS DISCOVERED STOPPED HIM IN HIS TRACKS: SOMEONE HAD HACKED INTO THE EMERGENCY SHUTDOWN SYSTEM 74 00:08:44,657 --> 00:08:51,430 AND INSTALLED SUSPICIOUS COMPUTER FILES. >> Gutmanis: THE FILES WERE CREATED AND EXECUTED, YOU KNOW, 75 00:08:51,497 --> 00:08:58,137 MOMENTARILY BEFORE THE INITIAL OUTAGE THAT WE RESPONDED TO. >> Whitaker: YOU WERE ABLE TO TRACE THAT BACK? 76 00:08:58,204 --> 00:09:02,708 >> Gutmanis: FORENSICALLY, YEAH. I CAME ACROSS A FUNCTION THAT THEY'D DEFINED IN THERE CALLED "EXECUTE EXPLOIT." 77 00:09:02,775 --> 00:09:05,978 HAIRS STOOD UP ON MY ARMS AND I'M LIKE, "THIS IS PROBABLY SOMETHING REALLY SERIOUS." YOU DON'T NORMALLY HAVE THE WORD 78 00:09:06,045 --> 00:09:12,084 "EXPLOIT" IN- IN NORMAL, KIND OF VENDOR SOFTWARE. >> Whitaker: SO, THAT- THAT SET OFF ALARM BELLS? 79 00:09:12,151 --> 00:09:15,855 >> Gutmanis: OH, HUGE ALARM BELLS. AND IT REALLY KIND OF MADE US FOCUS ON, "HOW DID THESE FILES 80 00:09:15,922 --> 00:09:22,061 GET THERE? WHERE DID THEY COME FROM? WHO CREATED THEM? AND- AND WHAT DO WE DO? 81 00:09:22,128 --> 00:09:30,469 WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TO DO?" >> Whitaker: GUTMANIS NOW WORKS FOR ROBERT LEE AT DRAGOS, WHO ALSO INVESTIGATED THE HACK. 82 00:09:30,536 --> 00:09:38,811 LEE SAYS THE HACKERS COULD HAVE SET OFF EXPLOSIONS AND RELEASED TOXIC CHEMICALS WITH THE MALWARE THEY IMPLANTED, KNOWN AS TRITON. 83 00:09:38,878 --> 00:09:45,518 >> Lee: IT'S THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY WE'VE EVER SEEN A CYBERATTACK EXPLICITLY DESIGNED TO KILL PEOPLE. 84 00:09:45,584 --> 00:09:51,157 IT TARGETS SAFETY SYSTEMS, AND THESE SAFETY SYSTEMS ARE ONLY THERE TO PROTECT LIVES. SO, GOING AFTER THAT SYSTEM 85 00:09:51,223 --> 00:09:59,065 EXPLICITLY, THE ONLY REASON TO DO IT IS TO HURT PEOPLE. WHAT HAPPENED IS, THEY MADE A SMALL ERROR IN THE SOFTWARE, 86 00:09:59,131 --> 00:10:04,003 THAT INSTEAD OF ACTUALLY CAUSING THE EFFECTS THEY WERE LOOKING TO ACHIEVE, LIKE AN EXPLOSION WHERE YOU'D KILL PEOPLE, INSTEAD, IT 87 00:10:04,070 --> 00:10:09,842 SIMPLY SHUT DOWN THE PLANT. >> Lisa Monaco: THE RUSSIANS POSE A SERIOUS AND PERSISTENT THREAT. 88 00:10:09,909 --> 00:10:17,483 >> Whitaker: AS THE SECOND HIGHEST RANKING OFFICIAL IN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL LISA MONACO 89 00:10:17,550 --> 00:10:27,626 OVERSEES THE F.B.I. AND ITS 1,000 STRONG CYBER DIVISION. THREE WEEKS AGO, HER DEPARTMENT UNSEALED TWO SECRET INDICTMENTS. 90 00:10:27,693 --> 00:10:33,432 ONE DESCRIBED HOW TRITON WORKED, AND IDENTIFIED THIS MAN, EVGENY GLADKIKH, FROM A RUSSIAN MINISTRY OF DEFENSE RESEARCH 91 00:10:33,499 --> 00:10:42,541 INSTITUTE, AS ONE OF THE HACKERS. THE SECOND INDICTMENT SAYS BETWEEN 2012-2017, THESE THREE 92 00:10:42,608 --> 00:10:51,217 RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE AGENTS AND ACCOMPLICES HACKED HUNDREDS OF ENERGY COMPANIES AROUND THE WORLD, AND MANAGED TO GET INSIDE 93 00:10:51,283 --> 00:11:00,326 THE COMPUTER NETWORK AT A NUCLEAR POWER PLANT IN KANSAS. >> Monaco: THIS WAS HISTORICAL ACTIVITY, BUT IT IS VERY MUCH 94 00:11:00,393 --> 00:11:07,299 THE TYPE OF ACTIVITY THAT WE ARE WARNING ABOUT TODAY, WHEN IT COMES TO RUSSIA'S RESPONSE TO THE WORLD'S RESPONSE TO THE 95 00:11:07,366 --> 00:11:15,541 HORROR IN UKRAINE. >> Whitaker: WHAT ABOUT RIGHT NOW? ARE YOU SEEING RUSSIAN ACTIVITY, 96 00:11:15,608 --> 00:11:24,116 RUSSIAN PLOTS TO DISRUPT OUR INFRASTRUCTURE? >> Monaco: WE ARE SEEING RUSSIAN STATE ACTORS SCANNING, PROBING, 97 00:11:24,183 --> 00:11:31,323 LOOKING FOR OPPORTUNITIES, LOOKING FOR WEAKNESSES IN OUR SYSTEMS, ON CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE, ON BUSINESSES. 98 00:11:31,390 --> 00:11:40,299 THINK OF IT, BILL, AS A BURGLAR GOING AROUND TRYING TO JIGGLE THE LOCK IN YOUR HOUSE DOOR TO SEE IF IT'S OPEN. 99 00:11:40,366 --> 00:11:48,007 AND WE'RE SEEING THAT. THOSE WHO VIOLATE OUR LAWS SHOULD EXPECT TO FACE JUSTICE. >> Whitaker: EARLIER THIS MONTH, 100 00:11:48,074 --> 00:11:55,714 MONACO JOINED ATTORNEY GENERAL MERRICK GARLAND AND F.B.I. DIRECTOR CHRISTOPHER WRAY TO ANNOUNCE THE U.S. HAD 101 00:11:55,781 --> 00:12:03,789 CONDUCTED A BOLD OPERATION: STOPPING RUSSIAN HACKERS AS THEY WERE PREPARING TO STRIKE. >> Monaco: WE'RE TALKING 102 00:12:03,856 --> 00:12:11,797 MILITARY INTELLIGENCE ACTORS, DEPLOYING MALWARE, MALICIOUS CODE, ON THOUSANDS OF COMPUTERS IN HUNDREDS OF COUNTRIES. 103 00:12:11,864 --> 00:12:19,672 WE'RE SEEING THEM DEPLOY THAT CODE AND TAKE CONTROL OF THESE COMPUTERS. IT'S LIKE AN ARMY OF INFECTED 104 00:12:19,738 --> 00:12:26,378 COMPUTERS THAT, WITH A SINGLE COMMAND, CAN BE DEPLOYED TO DO EVERYTHING FROM GATHERING INFORMATION, STEALING 105 00:12:26,445 --> 00:12:32,184 INFORMATION, AND SOMETIMES TO HAVE DESTRUCTIVE EFFECT. AND WE WERE ABLE TO WORK WITH THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO UNDERSTAND 106 00:12:32,251 --> 00:12:41,227 IT, TO BE ABLE TO USE UNIQUE INVESTIGATIVE TOOLS TO TRACE IT BACK TO ATTACKERS AT KEYBOARDS. AND THEN, USE OUR TOOLS TO GO 107 00:12:41,293 --> 00:12:51,504 IN, NOT ONLY REMOVE THAT MALWARE, BUT AGAIN, TO LOCK THOSE DOORS, TO KEEP THE ATTACKER FROM COMING BACK. 108 00:12:51,570 --> 00:12:55,241 >> Dmitri Alperovitch: THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT WE HAVE TAKEN THAT ACTION AGAINST SOMETHING THAT THE RUSSIAN 109 00:12:55,307 --> 00:12:59,612 MILITARY HAS DONE, PREEMPTIVELY. BEFORE THEY LAUNCHED THE ATTACK. WE TOOK IT DOWN. >> Whitaker: DMITIRI ALPEROVITCH 110 00:12:59,678 --> 00:13:04,783 IS WELL ACQUAINTED WITH PUTIN'S TACTICS. AS CO-FOUNDER OF THE HEAVYWEIGHT CYBERSECURITY COMPANY 111 00:13:04,850 --> 00:13:13,626 CROWDSTRIKE, HE HELPED TRACE THE 2016 HACK OF THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE BACK TO THE G.R.U. IN MOSCOW. 112 00:13:13,692 --> 00:13:20,766 HE CURRENTLY IS A MEMBER OF THE HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISORY COUNCIL. THE MOSCOW BORN ALPEROVITCH HAS 113 00:13:20,833 --> 00:13:28,574 A THEORY WHY PUTIN HASN'T LAUNCHED A FULL-SCALE CYBERATTACK ON THE U.S., YET. >> Alperovitch: HE THINKS THAT A 114 00:13:28,641 --> 00:13:33,946 VICTORY THAT HE CAN PULL OUT IS STILL ACHIEVABLE, AND THAT AS HE CAN MAKE A DEAL WITH EUROPEANS AT LEAST AND POSSIBLY THE 115 00:13:34,013 --> 00:13:39,552 AMERICANS TO TAKE THE SANCTIONS OFF. I THINK HE'S MISTAKEN ON THAT, BUT I THINK AT LEAST UNTIL HE 116 00:13:39,618 --> 00:13:44,823 TRIES THAT, HE'S UNLIKELY TO LAUNCH THE CYBERATTACKS. >> Whitaker: SO, WHY DO YOU THINK PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS SAID A 117 00:13:44,890 --> 00:13:51,964 CYBERATTACK FROM RUSSIA IS COMING? >> Alperovitch: WELL, I THINK THE REALITY IS THAT THOSE 118 00:13:52,031 --> 00:13:56,502 SANCTIONS WILL NOT COME OFF, THAT THE ECONOMIC PRESSURE ON RUSIA WILL CONTINUE. AND THEY ARE GOING TO START 119 00:13:56,569 --> 00:14:01,774 RETALIATING FOR THAT IN CYBERSPACE ONCE IT HITS THEM THAT THIS IS PERMANENT, THAT THIS IS NOT GOING AWAY. 120 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:06,045 AND THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO LOOK FOR WAYS TO PRESS US ECONOMICALLY IN RETALIATION. AND CYBER IS A PERFECT WAY FOR 121 00:14:06,111 --> 00:14:13,719 THEM TO DO SO. >> Whitaker: PERFECT BECAUSE CYBER IS A BATTLEFIELD WHERE RUSSIANS HAVE AN ADVANTAGE: 122 00:14:13,786 --> 00:14:19,058 A TARGET-RICH ENVIRONMENT IN THE UNITED STATES. >> Alperovitch: THE REALITY IS THAT WE HAVE WAY TOO MANY 123 00:14:19,124 --> 00:14:26,765 TARGETS. IF YOU LOOK PARTICULARLY IN OUR ENERGY SECTOR, YOU HAVE REGIONAL UTILITIES, YOU HAVE MINOR ENERGY 124 00:14:26,832 --> 00:14:31,904 PROCESSING COMPANIES, STORAGE COMPANIES, PIPELINE COMPANIES. AND MAKE NO MISTAKE, BILL, THE CYBER ACTORS THAT THEY HAVE ARE 125 00:14:31,971 --> 00:14:36,742 TOP NOTCH. AND THEY'VE DEMONSTRATED THAT TIME AND TIME AGAIN. >> Whitaker: WE HAVE SAID IN THE 126 00:14:36,809 --> 00:14:41,247 PAST THAT "IF YOU DO THIS TO US, WE WILL RESPOND IN KIND." WOULD WE? >> Alperovitch: WE HAVE TO LET 127 00:14:41,313 --> 00:14:47,486 HIM KNOW THAT YOU WILL NOT TOUCH OUR CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE WITHOUT A RESPONSE. AND THE WAY TO DO THAT, I THINK, 128 00:14:47,553 --> 00:14:51,924 IS THROUGH A CYBER OPERATION THAT CAN DEMONSTRATE OUR CAPABILITIES WITHOUT LASTING DAMAGE. 129 00:14:51,991 --> 00:14:55,561 ONE OF THE WAYS YOU CAN DO THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, IS BY TAKING RUSSIA OFF THE INTERNET FOR A FEW HOURS. 130 00:14:55,628 --> 00:15:00,933 IT WON'T CAUSE ANY LASTING IMPACT, BUT IT WILL DEMONSTRATE THE POWER OF THE UNITED STATES CYBER COMMAND, WHAT WE CAN DO TO 131 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:06,272 HIS ECONOMY BY DISCONNECTING HIM, EFFECTIVELY, FROM THE INTERNET. >> Whitaker: WE CAN DO THAT? 132 00:15:06,338 --> 00:15:09,875 >> Alperovitch: WE CAN ABSOLUTELY DO THAT. AND WE'LL LET HIM KNOW THAT IF HE KEEPS GOING, IF HE KEEPS 133 00:15:09,942 --> 00:15:25,791 ATTACKING US, WE CAN MAKE THAT PERMANENT. >> Stahl: VOLKSWAGEN IS NECK- AND-NECK WITH TOYOTA AS THE 134 00:15:25,858 --> 00:15:32,131 WORLD'S LARGEST CAR-MAKER. THE GERMAN COMPANY, WHICH GAVE US THE BELOVED BEETLE LAST CENTURY, RAKED IN OVER 135 00:15:32,197 --> 00:15:40,973 $250 BILLION LAST YEAR, SELLING NEARLY NINE MILLION CARS. STILL, IT CAN FEEL MORE LIKE AN OBSTACLE COURSE THAN VICTORY 136 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:49,815 TOUR FOR HERBERT DIESS, WHO'S BEEN RUNNING VOLKSWAGEN FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS. THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE CARS 137 00:15:49,882 --> 00:15:55,554 HE SELLS RUN ON GASOLINE, A GROWING PROBLEM FOR THE PLANET-- AND NOW TO DRIVERS' WALLETS-- BUT HIS MOST IMMEDIATE PROBLEM 138 00:15:55,621 --> 00:16:07,132 IS RUSSIA'S INVASION OF UKRAINE, JUST A FEW HOURS EAST OF VOLKSWAGEN'S HEADQUARTERS. 139 00:16:07,566 --> 00:16:12,938 ( EXPLOSION ) VOLKSWAGEN IS FEELING THE REPERCUSSIONS OF THE WAR IN EUROPE. 140 00:16:13,005 --> 00:16:19,478 IN MARCH, UKRAINE WAS FORCED TO SHUTTER FACTORIES THAT MADE CABLING SYSTEMS, SO ESSENTIAL TO VOLKSWAGEN THAT C.E.O. HERBERT 141 00:16:19,545 --> 00:16:27,886 DIESS HAD TO IDLE SEVERAL ASSEMBLY-LINES IN GERMANY. WHAT DID THEY SUPPLY YOU WITH THAT YOU'RE NOT GETTING? 142 00:16:27,953 --> 00:16:33,459 >> Herbert Diess: MOST OF IT, WIRING HARNESSES AND ELECTRICS, ELECTRONICS COMPONENTS. >> Stahl: ARE THOSE KEY? 143 00:16:33,525 --> 00:16:36,228 HOW HAS THAT AFFECTED-- >> Diess: SOME ARE REALLY KEY, SOME ARE REALLY KEY. >> Stahl: SO, YOU'RE TAKING A 144 00:16:36,295 --> 00:16:42,668 HIT? >> Diess: DEFINITELY WE ARE TAKING A HIT, YEAH. >> Stahl: THEY'RE TAKING ANOTHER 145 00:16:42,735 --> 00:16:49,575 HIT TO THEIR BUSINESS BECAUSE, TO HELP SANCTION PUTIN, DIESS SUSPENDED VOLKSWAGEN'S OPERATIONS IN RUSSIA. 146 00:16:49,641 --> 00:16:58,584 HOW CONCERNED ARE YOU THAT PUTIN MIGHT SEIZE YOUR FACTORIES? >> Deiss: IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND THE SITUATION. 147 00:16:58,650 --> 00:17:07,393 I THINK IT WILL DEPEND A LOT ON HOW FAR ARE WE GETTING BACK TO NEGOTIATIONS. >> Stahl: VOLKSWAGEN PULLED OUT 148 00:17:07,459 --> 00:17:10,763 OF RUSSIA VERY EARLY. I WONDER HOW HARD A DECISION THAT WAS FOR YOU? >> Diess: IT IS QUITE A HARD 149 00:17:10,829 --> 00:17:21,240 DECISION FOR US BECAUSE WE HAVE ABOUT 7,000 PEOPLE-- LOYAL PEOPLE WORKING FOR US IN RUSSIA. WE HAVE THREE PLANTS THERE. 150 00:17:21,306 --> 00:17:25,544 WE HAVE CUSTOMERS SINCE MANY YEARS, SO IT'S VERY DIFFICULT DECISION. BUT STRONG SANCTIONS ARE 151 00:17:25,611 --> 00:17:31,550 PROBABLY THE ONLY MEASURES WE HAVE CURRENTLY, BECAUSE WHAT WE SEE IN EUROPE IS REALLY AN APPALLING WAR. 152 00:17:31,617 --> 00:17:38,991 >> Stahl: HE FELT THE APPALLING INVASION OF UKRAINE REQUIRED HIM TO TAKE ACTION. TRADITIONALLY, VOLKSWAGEN HAS 153 00:17:39,057 --> 00:17:46,665 BEEN MINDFUL OF ITS MORAL RESPONSIBILITY, GIVEN ITS PAST. THE COMPANY WAS FOUNDED BY THE NAZIS, WHO WANTED TO CREATE A 154 00:17:46,732 --> 00:17:58,677 "PEOPLE'S CAR"- "VOLKSWAGEN." THAT'S HITLER IN THE BEETLE. DO YOU THINK THAT VOLKSWAGEN HAD A SORT OF SPECIAL OBLIGATION TO 155 00:17:58,744 --> 00:18:06,385 ACT IN THIS CASE, GIVEN THE COMPANIES' NAZI PAST? >> Diess: I WOULDN'T GO SO FAR, BUT YES, WE HAVE THIS PAST, AND 156 00:18:06,452 --> 00:18:14,726 PROBABLY WE ARE MORE CONSCIOUS ABOUT THE-- SUCH THINGS. >> Stahl: SCENES LIKE THIS IN UKRAINE HAVE THE EUROPEAN UNION 157 00:18:14,793 --> 00:18:24,036 FINALLY MOVING CLOSER TO EMBARGOING RUSSIAN OIL. GERMANY IMPORTS OVER HALF OF ITS GAS AND A THIRD OF ITS OIL 158 00:18:24,102 --> 00:18:28,674 FROMRUSSIA. IF THE SPIGOT IS OFF, WHAT'S THIS GOING TO DO TO THE ECONOMIES IN EUROPE? 159 00:18:28,740 --> 00:18:37,616 >> Diess: A LONG-LASTING WAR COULD DAMAGE EUROPE'S AND GERMANY'S WELFARE QUITE CONSIDERABLY, NO? 160 00:18:37,683 --> 00:18:45,657 THE IMPACT COULD BE QUITE SEVERE TO EUROPE. >> Stahl: DO YOU THINK THAT IT'S TIME TO GO TO IRAN, AND GO TO 161 00:18:45,724 --> 00:18:51,230 VENEZUELA, AND GO TO OTHER COUNTRIES THAT, YOU KNOW, THE WEST HAS NOT BEEN DEALING WITH? >> Diess: SHORT-TERM, POSSIBLY, 162 00:18:51,296 --> 00:18:58,504 BUT LONG-TERM, WE HAVE TO GO PROBABLY AT EVEN HIGHER SPEED TO RENEWABLES, NO? TO WIND AND SOLAR ENERGY. 163 00:18:58,570 --> 00:19:05,944 >> Stahl: AND, HE SAYS, TO ELECTRIC CARS. DIESS WANTS VOLKSWAGEN TO MAKE ELECTRIC VERSIONS OF ALL ITS 164 00:19:06,011 --> 00:19:12,885 BRANDS. AND THERE ARE MANY, BECAUSE VOLKWSWAGEN DOESN'T JUST MAKE VOLKSWAGENS-- IT ALSO MAKES 165 00:19:12,951 --> 00:19:19,958 HIGH-END AUDI, AND PORSCHE; SUPERCAR LAMBORGHINI; LUXURY BENTLEY; AND EVEN DUCATI MOTORCYCLES. 166 00:19:20,025 --> 00:19:27,533 AT LEAST 100 MODELS IN ALL, INCLUDING SEVERAL ELECTRIC CARS. AUDI. >> Diess: AUDI. 167 00:19:27,599 --> 00:19:30,802 >> Stahl: PORSCHE. >> Diess: PORSCHE TAYCAN. >> Stahl: ALL ELECTRIC HERE. >> Diess: ID.4. 168 00:19:30,869 --> 00:19:37,709 ALL ELECTRIC. >> Stahl: WE MET DIESS LAST MONTH IN AUSTIN, TEXAS. HE WANTED TO SHOW US THE NEW 169 00:19:37,776 --> 00:19:43,715 ALL-ELECTRIC PORSCHE. WE DISCOVERED THAT DIESS LIKES TO SURPRISE YOU-- OH MY GOD! 170 00:19:43,782 --> 00:19:52,324 --EVEN JOLT YOU, AS WHEN HE TOOK ME FROM 0-60 IN A COUPLE SECONDS-- OH, OH! 171 00:19:52,391 --> 00:20:00,098 --OR WHEN HE DELIVERED A SPEECH TO EMPLOYEES, ON AN ELECTRIC SURFBOARD? A METAPHOR, PERHAPS, FOR 172 00:20:00,165 --> 00:20:08,273 PROPELLING THE COMPANY INTO A NEW ERA. IN THE U.S., FOCUSING ON ELECTRIC S.U.V.s LIKE THE ID.4. 173 00:20:08,340 --> 00:20:19,718 VOLKSWAGEN IS RECONFIGURING ITS PLANT WITH 4,000 WORKERS IN CHATTANOOGA, TENNESSEE, WHERE THEY MAKE GASOLINE S.U.V.s, 174 00:20:19,785 --> 00:20:27,626 TO ALSO START MAKING THE ALL-ELECTRIC ID.4. AND SCOTT KEOGH, HEAD OF VOLKSWAGEN AMERICA, SAYS THEY'RE 175 00:20:27,693 --> 00:20:36,735 ABOUT TO IMPORT A NEW SEDAN LIKE THEIR OLD PASSAT. >> Scott Keogh: YEAH, BUT A SUPER COOL, ALL-ELECTRIC, CRAZY 176 00:20:36,802 --> 00:20:41,540 HIGH-TECH PASSAT, IF YOU WILL. AND I THINK THE NEXT ONE AFTER THAT WOULD BE AN S.U.V. BIGGER THAN THIS ONE. 177 00:20:41,607 --> 00:20:53,385 >> Stahl: UNDER C.E.O. DIESS, VOLKSWAGEN IS MAKING AN EXTRA EFFORT IN THE AMERICAN MARKET. IN THE '60s AND '70s, EVERYBODY 178 00:20:53,452 --> 00:20:59,124 IN THE UNITED STATES KNEW ABOUT VOLKSWAGEN-- THE BEETLE, THE MINIBUS. BUT SINCE THEN, VOLKSWAGEN 179 00:20:59,191 --> 00:21:03,395 HAS NOT DONE WELL IN THE UNITED STATES. WHY IS THAT, DO YOU THINK? >> Diess: IT'S DIFFICULT-- FIRST 180 00:21:03,462 --> 00:21:10,268 OF ALL, I HAVE TO ACCEPT, WE LOST GROUND HERE IN THE U.S. I THINK WE-- WE DIDN'T TAKE THE U.S. CUSTOMER SERIOUSLY ENOUGH, 181 00:21:10,335 --> 00:21:17,075 NO? WE TRIED TO SELL THE EUROPEAN PRODUCT HERE IN THE U.S. >> Stahl: VOLKSWAGEN DOES 182 00:21:17,142 --> 00:21:23,348 BRILLIANTLY IN CHINA, IN EUROPE, IN LATIN AMERICA. I MEAN, WHY PUT THE EFFORT HERE? >> Diess: THIS IS SUCH AN 183 00:21:23,415 --> 00:21:28,086 IMPORTANT MARKET. AND THERE ALWAYS HAVE BEEN DISCUSSIONS, ALTHOUGH INTERNALLY, "SHOULDN'T WE 184 00:21:28,153 --> 00:21:33,025 GIVE UP THE U.S. BECAUSE WE ARE LOSING MONEY? WE ARE GOING NOWHERE." >> Stahl: EXACTLY. 185 00:21:33,091 --> 00:21:36,995 >> Diess: NO, WE HAVE TO COME BACK IN THE U.S. WE HAVE TO BECOME RELEVANT IN THE U.S. 186 00:21:37,062 --> 00:21:43,435 AND WE ARE IN THE RIGHT WAY. >> Stahl: THE RIGHT WAY, HE SAYS, INCLUDES ELECTRIFYING A NEW VERSION OF THE MICRO-BUS 187 00:21:43,502 --> 00:21:50,876 THAT WAS POPULAR AMONG HIPPIES AND SURFERS IN THE '60s, CALLING IT THE ID.BUZZ. THIS IS THE NEW ONE. 188 00:21:50,942 --> 00:21:55,380 >> Diess: THIS IS THE NEW ONE. >> Stahl: THE BUZZ. AND THIS IS THE OLD BUS? >> Diess: YES. 189 00:21:55,447 --> 00:21:58,383 EXACTLY. 70 YEARS IN BETWEEN. YEAH. A LOT OF ADVANCEMENTS IN 190 00:21:58,450 --> 00:22:06,792 TECHNOLOGY, MOSTLY IN SAFETY. >> Stahl: DIESS WAS IN AUSTIN TO INTRODUCE THE BUZZ TO A NEW GENERATION AT THE SOUTH-BY- 191 00:22:06,858 --> 00:22:14,366 SOUTHWEST FESTIVAL. HE THINKS TAKING WHAT WAS COOL IN THE 20th CENTURY AND ELECTRIFYING IT WILL HELP V.W. 192 00:22:14,433 --> 00:22:22,941 RECAPTURE THE AMERICAN MARKET. YOU KNOW, IN THE UNITED STATES, THE BEST-SELLING VEHICLES ARE TRUCKS. 193 00:22:23,008 --> 00:22:30,916 AS FAR AS I KNOW, YOU DO NOT HAVE PLANS TO MAKE AN ELECTRIC TRUCK FOR THE AMERICAN MARKET. >> Diess: NOT YET. 194 00:22:30,982 --> 00:22:37,856 >> Stahl: NOT YET? HE'S COMMITTED TO HAVING AT LEAST HALF HIS ENTIRE FLEET BE ELECTRIC BY THE END OF THE 195 00:22:37,923 --> 00:22:46,932 DECADE, AND TO ELIMINATE DOZENS OF COMBUSTION ENGINE MODELS. >> Diess: WE HAVE TO DE-CARBONIZE THE WORLD, BECAUSE 196 00:22:46,998 --> 00:22:59,244 CLIMATE CHANGE IS HAPPENING. AND TO DE-CARBONIZE THE AUTOMOTIVE SECTOR, THE ONLY WAY, FEASIBLE WAY FORWARD IS 197 00:22:59,311 --> 00:23:03,515 ELECTRIFICATION. >> Stahl: YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO CHANGE THE ENGINE, THE TRANSMISSION-- 198 00:23:03,582 --> 00:23:05,751 >> Diess: YES. >> Stahl: EVEN THE DESIGN. AND THEY SAY OLD DOGS DON'T LEARN NEW TRICKS. 199 00:23:05,817 --> 00:23:07,753 >> Diess: THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE TRYING. > Stahl: THE-- EXACTLY. EXACTLY. 200 00:23:07,819 --> 00:23:13,525 >> Diess: YEAH. IT IS A BIG CHALLENGE. AND HISTORICALLY THERE HAVEN'T BEEN TOO MANY CASES WHERE THE 201 00:23:13,592 --> 00:23:19,264 SUCCESSFUL COMPANIES IN THE OLD WORLD COULD DEMONSTRATE THAT THEY ARE STILL SUCCESSFUL IN THE NEW WORLD. 202 00:23:19,331 --> 00:23:26,271 >> Stahl: AND YOU HAVE SO MANY COMPETITORS IN THE ELECTRIFICATION AREA. >> Diess: YEAH. 203 00:23:26,338 --> 00:23:34,646 IT'S REALLY THE NEW COMPETITORS WHICH ARE ESPECIALLY CHALLENGING FOR US, NO? COMING FROM SOFTWARE BACKGROUND, 204 00:23:34,713 --> 00:23:39,384 BATTERY BACKGROUND, APPLE BEING SAID TO ENTERING AT SOME STAGE, NO? THOSE ARE PROBABLY THE 205 00:23:39,451 --> 00:23:43,121 COMPETITORS WE HAVE TO TAKE MOST SERIOUSLY. >> Stahl: TO COMPETE, VOLKSWAGEN IS TRYING TO RECRUIT THOUSANDS 206 00:23:43,188 --> 00:23:49,427 OF SOFTWARE AND BATTERY ENGINEERS WORLDWIDE. THEY JUST OPENED A NEW BATTERY FACILITY IN CHATTANOOGA. 207 00:23:49,494 --> 00:23:56,434 THEY DON'T MAKE THE BATTERY CELLS YET-- A KOREAN SUPPLIER DOES THAT. FOR NOW, VOLKSWAGEN JUST 208 00:23:56,501 --> 00:24:05,710 ARRANGES THEM TO FIT IN THEIR CARS. >> Keogh: WE WILL GET INTO THE BATTERY BUSINESS. 209 00:24:05,777 --> 00:24:11,950 WE WILL BUILD MORE PLANTS IN AMERICA. BECAUSE IT'S A CORE NECESSITY. >> Stahl: IF YOU'RE A CAR 210 00:24:12,017 --> 00:24:13,885 COMPANY, YOU'RE A BATTERY COMPANY. >> Keogh: YOU'RE A BATTERY COMPANY. 211 00:24:13,952 --> 00:24:18,790 YOU'RE A SOFTWARE COMPANY. >> Stahl: THE RACE IS ON BETWEEN TECH COMPANIES AND TRADITIONAL CARMAKERS. 212 00:24:18,857 --> 00:24:29,768 IRONICALLY, VOLKSWAGEN GOT A HEAD START FROM A SCANDAL IN 2015 THAT ALL BUT FORCED IT TO PIVOT TO ELECTRIC. 213 00:24:29,835 --> 00:24:38,009 AT THAT TIME, OVER HALF THE VOLKSWAGEN CARS SOLD IN EUROPE RAN ON DIESEL, WHICH WAS PROMOTED AS A CLEAN ENERGY 214 00:24:38,076 --> 00:24:46,585 SOLUTION TO LOWER EMISSIONS. BUT THEN THE COMPANY WAS CAUGHT SELLING DIESEL VEHICLES WITH SOFTWARE DESIGNED TO CHEAT ON 215 00:24:46,651 --> 00:24:53,792 EMISSIONS TESTS. 11 MILLION CARS WERE RECALLED, SOME SEEN HERE. IT COST VOLKSWAGEN OVER 216 00:24:53,859 --> 00:25:01,533 $30 BILLION, AND SENT SOME EXECUTIVES TO PRISON. DIESS WAS NEW TO THE COMPANY AT THE TIME. 217 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:06,404 DO YOU THINK PEOPLE HAVE FORGOTTEN IT? >> Diess: NO, NO, NO, NO. IT'S-- YOU KNOW, THIS IS A 218 00:25:06,471 --> 00:25:11,576 LONG-LASTING THING. AND WE HAVE TO CONVINCE OUR CUSTOMERS THAT WE ARE WORTHWHILE CONSIDERING, AND WE ARE 219 00:25:11,643 --> 00:25:15,113 DELIVERING A GOOD PRODUCT-- >> Stahl: AND HONEST. >> Diess: AND HONEST. >> Stahl: TO TRY TO SAVE THE 220 00:25:15,180 --> 00:25:23,989 COMPANY, THEY DECIDED TO TURN AWAY FROM DIESEL AND TO ELECTRIC. THEY ALSO AGREED IN A SETTLEMENT 221 00:25:24,055 --> 00:25:32,163 WITH THE U.S. JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO INVEST $2 BILLION IN GREEN TECH, THAT INCLUDES BUILDING A LARGE NETWORK OF FAST-CHARGING 222 00:25:32,230 --> 00:25:39,137 STATIONS CALLED "ELECTRIFY AMERICA." THEY DROVE US TO ONE NEAR AUSTIN. 223 00:25:39,204 --> 00:25:47,078 >> Ryan: SO, YOU JUST PLUG IT IN HERE, GET IT IN, CLICK. AND THEN YOUR VEHICLE'S CHARGING. 224 00:25:47,145 --> 00:25:50,749 AND THEN JUST PUSH THAT NOZZLE AND PULL IT BACK. >> Stahl: BUT WHEN I TRIED-- IT'S NOT EASY. 225 00:25:50,815 --> 00:25:54,786 OKAY, SOMETHING'S WRONG. I CAN'T DO IT! >> Ryan: SURE YOU CAN, THERE YOU GO! 226 00:25:54,853 --> 00:26:02,227 >> Stahl: CHARGING PROBLEMS MAY BE THE LEAST OF THE CHALLENGES FACING HERBERT DIESS. THE BUSINESS MODEL OF GLOBAL 227 00:26:02,294 --> 00:26:10,936 COMPANIES LIKE VOLKSWAGEN IS COMING UNDONE AS THE PANDEMIC HAS STRAINED LONG SUPPLY LINES, LEADING TO SHORTAGES IN KEY 228 00:26:11,002 --> 00:26:18,343 COMPONENTS LIKE SEMICONDUCTORS. AND IN FEBRUARY, THE COMPANY WAS STUNG BY THE PERILS OF SHIPPING WHEN A FIRE SANK A CARGO OF 229 00:26:18,410 --> 00:26:27,919 4,000 OF ITS CARS. AS IF ALL THAT'S NOT ENOUGH, COVID IS DISRUPTING VOLKSWAGEN IN ITS BIGGEST MARKET. 230 00:26:27,986 --> 00:26:33,224 WHAT PERCENT OF YOUR SALES COME OUT OF CHINA? >> Diess: 40%, ROUGHLY. >> Stahl: ALMOST HALF! 231 00:26:33,291 --> 00:26:40,832 >> Diess: YES. >> Stahl: BUT VOLKSWAGEN'S OPERATION IN CHINA HAS COME UNDER HEAVY CRITICISM BECAUSE 232 00:26:40,899 --> 00:26:47,339 ONE OF ITS PLANTS IS IN THE HOME PROVINCE OF THE UYGHUR MUSLIM MINORITY. THE AREA WHERE YOUR FACTORY IS 233 00:26:47,405 --> 00:26:55,013 IS WHERE UYGHURS ARE BEING "REEDUCATED." THEY'RE IN DETENTION CAMPS. DO YOU WORRY THAT THE MESSAGE IS 234 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,383 SENT THAT YOU'RE OKAY WITH WHAT'S GOING ON IN THAT PART OF THE WORLD? >> Diess: I THINK THAT'S NOT THE 235 00:26:58,450 --> 00:27:07,258 MESSAGE WE-- WE ARE SENDING, NO? WE CAN MAKE SURE WITH OUR PEOPLE THAT THERE IS NO FORCED LABOR, THAT PEOPLE ARE TREATED EQUALLY 236 00:27:07,325 --> 00:27:12,430 IN OUR PLANT-- >> Stahl: YOU'RE SURE OF THAT? >> Diess: YEAH, ABSOLUTELY SURE. >> Stahl: DO YOU FEEL, IN ANY 237 00:27:12,497 --> 00:27:14,933 WAY, ANY PRESSURE TO KEEP THAT FIRM OPEN FROM THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT? >> Diess: WE WANT TO KEEP IT 238 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,471 OPEN. I THINK LOCAL PEOPLE ARE MUCH BETTER OFF IF WE STAY. BEFORE COVID, I HAVE EVEN PLAN 239 00:27:19,537 --> 00:27:26,678 TO VISIT THE PLANT MYSELF, YEAH? >> Stahl: WILL YOU DO THAT? >> Diess: YEAH, I WILL DO THAT. I WILL DEFINITELY VISIT THE 240 00:27:26,745 --> 00:27:35,253 PLANT. >> Stahl: FOR ALL THE OBSTACLES IN GETTING ELECTRIC CARS OFF THE GROUND- WAR, PANDEMIC, ENGINEER 241 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:44,229 SHORTAGES- ONE THING IS WORKING IN VOLKSWAGEN'S FAVOR: RISING GAS PRICES MAKE ELECTRIC VEHICLES MORE APPEALING. 242 00:27:44,295 --> 00:27:55,106 LAST YEAR, HERBERT DIESS SOLD MORE ELECTRIC CARS OF ALL TYPES THAN ANYONE, EXCEPT ELON MUSK. HOW CLOSE ARE YOU IN TERMS OF 243 00:27:55,173 --> 00:28:01,212 SELLING ELECTRIC CARS WORLDWIDE, TO TESLA? >> Diess: WE ARE SECOND, YEAH, WORLDWIDE. 244 00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:06,017 SO, TESLA IS AHEAD-- >> Stahl: BUT SECOND BY A MILE? OR CLOSE-- >> Diess: TESLA IS QUITE AHEAD 245 00:28:06,084 --> 00:28:10,088 CURRENTLY, AND THEY'RE GROWING FAST, I HAVE TO ADMIT. HE IS TAKING MORE RISKS THAN WE CAN. 246 00:28:10,155 --> 00:28:14,259 HE'S NOW BUILDING A PLANT IN BERLIN. IT'S 200 KILOMETERS FROM OUR PLANT. 247 00:28:14,325 --> 00:28:17,529 >> Stahl: I SAW THAT. OH, MY GOODNESS. >> Diess: AND I THINK IT'S VERY HEALTHY FOR US, NO, TO HAVE A 248 00:28:17,595 --> 00:28:21,966 NEW COMPETITOR-- >> Stahl: YOU DO? >> Diess: YES, DEFINITELY. >> Stahl: THERE WAS CRITICISM 249 00:28:22,033 --> 00:28:32,510 FROM YOUR WORKERS THAT YOU'RE SETTING HIM UP AS THE BENCHMARK AND TALKING ABOUT IT, AND THEY DON'T LIKE IT. 250 00:28:32,577 --> 00:28:34,712 >> Diess: JA, ACTUALLY, YOU'RE RIGHT. THEY DON'T LIKE IT. ( LAUGHS ) 251 00:28:34,779 --> 00:28:35,313 ( TICKING ) 252 00:28:43,721 --> 00:28:50,895 ( TICKING ) >> Cooper: IF YOU'VE EVER HAD THE FANTASY OF SOARING OVER BUMPER-TO-BUMPER TRAFFIC IN A 253 00:28:50,962 --> 00:28:57,001 FLYING VEHICLE, THAT MAY BE POSSIBLE SOONER THAN YOU THINK. NOT WITH A FLYING CAR, BUT WITH A BATTERY-POWERED AIRCRAFT 254 00:28:57,068 --> 00:29:06,511 CALLED AN eVTOL, A CLUNKY ACRONYM FOR ELECTRIC VERTICAL TAKEOFF AND LANDING. DOZENS OF COMPANIES ARE SPENDING 255 00:29:06,578 --> 00:29:12,650 BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO MAKE eVTOLs THAT WILL OPERATE LIKE AIR TAXIS, TAKING OFF AND LANDING FROM WHAT ARE CALLED 256 00:29:12,717 --> 00:29:20,592 VERTIPORTS ON THE TOPS OF BUILDINGS, PARKING GARAGES, OR HELIPADS IN CONGESTED CITIES. eVTOLs PROMISE A FASTER, SAFER 257 00:29:20,658 --> 00:29:26,764 AND GREENER MODE OF TRANSPORTATION, POTENTIALLY CHANGING THE WAY WE WORK AND LIVE. 258 00:29:26,831 --> 00:29:33,171 SOUND TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE? WE WENT FOR A JOYRIDE TO FIND OUT. >> Jace McCown: I WILL ARM THE 259 00:29:33,238 --> 00:29:39,644 AIRCRAFT IF YOU ARE READY. >> Cooper: YEAH, TOTALLY. >> CONFIRMED CLEAR ABOVE. >> Cooper: IF THIS LOOKS LIKE AN 260 00:29:39,711 --> 00:29:46,518 OVERSIZED DRONE I'M ABOUT TO TAKE OFF IN, THAT'S PRETTY MUCH WHAT IT IS. >> McCown: BREAKING GROUND RIGHT 261 00:29:46,584 --> 00:29:52,557 THERE. >> Cooper: IT'S A SINGLE-SEAT eVTOL CALLED HEXA, POWERED BY 18 PROPELLERS, EACH WITH ITS OWN 262 00:29:52,624 --> 00:29:59,264 BATTERY. NO JET FUEL REQUIRED. >> McCown: YOU ARE IN CONTROL. >> Cooper: ONBOARD COMPUTERS 263 00:29:59,330 --> 00:30:04,769 AUTOMATICALLY ADJUST FOR ALTITUDE AND WIND-- YOU CAN REALLY FEEL THE WIND UP HERE. 264 00:30:04,836 --> 00:30:10,175 --SO ALL I HAD TO DO WAS USE A JOYSTICK TO CONTROL HEXA'S MOVEMENT AND SPEED. IT TOOK ABOUT 30 MINUTES OF 265 00:30:10,241 --> 00:30:16,781 PRE-FLIGHT TRAINING TO GET THE HANG OF IT. >> McCown: USE THAT YAW TO ROTATE 90 DEGREES. 266 00:30:16,848 --> 00:30:24,322 WONDERFUL. >> Cooper: HEXA IS STILL IN ITS TESTING PHASE, SO I HAD TO STAY CLOSE TO CHIEF PILOT JACE McCOWN 267 00:30:24,389 --> 00:30:32,697 AND HIS GROUND CREW. BUT THEY SAY IT'S FLOWN UP TO 90 FEET IN THE AIR AND 45 MILES PER HOUR. 268 00:30:32,764 --> 00:30:35,800 >> McCown: WHENEVER YOU'RE READY, YOU CAN COME BACK TO HOME. >> Cooper: THE BATTERIES LAST UP 269 00:30:35,867 --> 00:30:39,737 TO 15 MINUTES. I WAS GOING TO TRY TO LAND OVER THE CAMERAS. >> McCown: OKAY, YEAH, 270 00:30:39,804 --> 00:30:42,273 ABSOLUTELY. >> Cooper: TO LAND, I MANEUVERED HEXA INTO POSITION, PRESSED A BUTTON, AND THE COMPUTERS DID 271 00:30:42,340 --> 00:30:52,483 THE REST. >> McCown: RIGHT THERE, YOU ARE ON THE GROUND. AND THE PROPS ARE SPINNING DOWN. 272 00:30:52,550 --> 00:30:55,653 >> Cooper: THAT IS COOL. ( LAUGHS ) I CAN'T STOP LAUGHING. >> Matt Chasen: PIECE OF CAKE, 273 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,922 RIGHT? >> Cooper: THAT WAS AWESOME. >> Chasen: WAS IT FUN? >> Cooper: THAT WAS SO MUCH FUN. 274 00:30:57,989 --> 00:31:00,358 >> Chasen: YES! I LOVE IT. >> Cooper: WOW. I SO JUST WANT TO, LIKE, TAKE 275 00:31:00,425 --> 00:31:07,799 OFF WITH IT. >> Chasen: I KNOW. >> Cooper: MATT CHASEN IS C.E.O. OF AUSTIN-BASED LIFT AIRCRAFT, 276 00:31:07,865 --> 00:31:13,304 WHICH MAKES HEXA. HE ENVISIONS A FUTURE WHERE IT'S USED BY COMMUTERS TO SKIP RUSH HOUR TRAFFIC. 277 00:31:13,371 --> 00:31:17,041 >> Chasen: YOU CAN FLY TEN MILES IN TEN MINUTES INSTEAD OF SPENDING OVER AN HOUR ON THE ROADS DURING RUSH HOUR 278 00:31:17,108 --> 00:31:22,747 CONGESTION. >> Cooper: WOULD IT BE SOMETHING THAT AN INDIVIDUAL THEN IN THE FUTURE OWNS AND FLIES FROM THEIR 279 00:31:22,814 --> 00:31:25,817 HOUSE TO SOMEWHERE? >> Chasen: WE DON'T SEE INDIVIDUAL OWNERSHIP AS VERY PRACTICAL. 280 00:31:25,883 --> 00:31:32,824 THESE ARE-- THESE ARE VERY EXPENSIVE AIRCRAFT. WE SEE PUTTING FLEETS OF AIRCRAFT AT LOCATIONS WHERE WE 281 00:31:32,890 --> 00:31:38,763 PROVIDE MAINTENANCE, WE PROVIDE TRAINING, AND PEOPLE CAN COME IN AND BASICALLY PAY PER FLIGHT. >> Cooper: BUT THAT'S STILL A 282 00:31:38,830 --> 00:31:44,836 LONG WAY OFF. FEDERAL, STATE, AND LOCAL REGULATORS-- NOT TO MENTION THE NATION'S AIRSPACE-- AREN'T 283 00:31:44,902 --> 00:31:54,379 READY FOR HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF COMMUTERS PILOTING THEIR OWN eVTOLs IN THE SKIES OVER CONGESTED CITIES. 284 00:31:54,445 --> 00:32:00,818 SO, TO GIVE PEOPLE A TASTE OF THE FUTURE NOW, CHASEN DESIGNED HEXA AS AN ULTRA-LIGHT VEHICLE, WHICH MEANS IT DOESN'T HAVE TO 285 00:32:00,885 --> 00:32:08,026 GO THROUGH THE FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION'S COMPLEX CERTIFICATION PROCESS, BUT ALSO CAN'T FLY OVER POPULATED AREAS. 286 00:32:08,092 --> 00:32:15,833 CHASEN PLANS TO START OFFERING RIDES TO PAYING CUSTOMERS FOR $250 BY THE END OF THIS YEAR. THE INITIAL MARKET YOU SEE IS 287 00:32:15,900 --> 00:32:20,938 ESSENTIALLY JOY RIDES FOR PEOPLE? >> Chasen: YEAH, I THINK THERE'S A HUGE MARKET FOR PEOPLE TO 288 00:32:21,005 --> 00:32:29,113 JUST EXPERIENCE THE THRILL AND JOY OF FLIGHT. >> Cooper: AROUND THE WORLD, ALL KINDS OF eVTOLs ARE BEING 289 00:32:29,180 --> 00:32:34,919 DEVELOPED; CARGO CARRIERS, AIR AMBULANCES, AND A WHOLE LOT OF AIR TAXIS-- SOME WITH A PILOT, SOME WITHOUT. 290 00:32:34,986 --> 00:32:43,928 THE AIR FORCE IS INVESTING. SO IS AIRBUS AND AMERICAN AIRLINES. AND DOZENS OF COMPANIES ARE 291 00:32:43,995 --> 00:32:51,569 ALREADY WORKING WITH THE F.A.A. IT'S NOT THE FLYING CARS THAT SCIENCE FICTION MOVIES ANTICIPATED? 292 00:32:51,636 --> 00:32:55,973 >> Billy Nolen: NO, BUT WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, I-- I LOOK BACK OVER THE ARC OF MY OWN CAREER HAVING BEEN A PILOT FOR 293 00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:02,680 42 YEARS, AND I'M JUST AMAZED BY THE AMOUNT OF INNOVATION THAT HAS TAKEN PLACE. >> Cooper: BILLY NOLEN WAS HEAD 294 00:33:02,747 --> 00:33:09,520 OF SAFETY FOR THE F.A.A. BEFORE BEING NAMED ACTING ADMINISTRATOR LAST MONTH. HOW DIFFICULT A CERTIFICATION 295 00:33:09,587 --> 00:33:13,391 PROCESS IS THERE? BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF MOVING PARTS TO THIS. >> Nolen: FIRST, WE HAVE TO 296 00:33:13,458 --> 00:33:17,962 CERTIFY THE DESIGN OF THE-- OF THE AIRCRAFT ITSELF. AND THEN WE LOOK AT HOW IT WILL OPERATE. 297 00:33:18,029 --> 00:33:21,866 IS IT PILOTED? IS IT AUTONOMOUS? WE LOOK AT WHERE IT WILL OPERATE. 298 00:33:21,933 --> 00:33:29,340 SO, THAT MEANS, HOW DO WE PUT IT WITHIN OUR NATION'S AIR SPACE? SO, ONCE IT'S MET THAT SAFETY THRESHOLD, AND ONLY UNTIL IT'S 299 00:33:29,407 --> 00:33:36,114 MET THAT SAFETY THRESHOLD, WILL WE BE-- BE PREPARED TO CERTIFY IT. >> Cooper: SOME eVTOL COMPANIES 300 00:33:36,180 --> 00:33:43,855 ARE WELL ON THEIR WAY. WE FLEW IN A GAS-GUZZLING HELICOPTER WITH ONE OF THE FRONTRUNNERS IN THE AIR TAXI 301 00:33:43,921 --> 00:33:49,460 ARMS RACE, JOEBEN BEVIRT, C.E.O. OF JOBY AVIATION. HE TOOK US TO THIS REMOTE FACILITY IN CALIFORNIA, WHERE 302 00:33:49,527 --> 00:33:57,869 HE'S TESTING HIS eVTOL, THE JOBY AIRCRAFT. AS WE LANDED, IT FELT LIKE THE OLD GUARD MEETING THE NEW. 303 00:33:57,935 --> 00:34:04,142 OBVIOUSLY, IT'S A COMBINATION OF A HELICOPTER AND A PLANE? >> Joeben Bevirt: EXACTLY. SO, IT CAN TAKE OFF LIKE A 304 00:34:04,208 --> 00:34:08,012 HELICOPTER, BUT IT FLIES WITH THE EFFICIENCY OF AN AIRPLANE. >> Cooper: BEVIRT HAS BEEN WORKING ON THE JOBY FOR MORE 305 00:34:08,079 --> 00:34:14,018 THAN A DECADE. IT HAS SIX PROPELLERS AND FOUR BATTERIES IN ITS WINGS, AND WILL OPERATE AS AN AIR TAXI, CARRYING 306 00:34:14,085 --> 00:34:22,293 A PILOT AND FOUR PASSENGERS. HE SAYS IT CAN FLY 150 MILES ON A SINGLE CHARGE AND HAS A TOP SPEED OF AROUND 200 MILES 307 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:29,467 AN HOUR. WHY THIS DESIGN? >> Bevirt: SO, VERTICAL TAKE OFF IS IMPORTANT, SO IT CAN TAKE YOU 308 00:34:29,534 --> 00:34:35,706 TO WHERE YOU WANT TO GO, RIGHT? WE DON'T NEED A HUGE RUNWAY. AND THEN WITH THE WING, IT GIVES YOU THE EFFICIENCY TO FLY FAR 309 00:34:35,773 --> 00:34:42,079 AND TO FLY FAST. >> PILOT, YOU'RE CLEARED FLIGHT FLEX ALPHA. >> Cooper: BECAUSE IT'S STILL 310 00:34:42,146 --> 00:34:46,150 BEING TESTED, THE JOBY WAS PILOTED REMOTELY BY A NEARBY GROUND CREW. >> FOR FLIGHT-- 311 00:34:46,217 --> 00:34:52,190 >> Cooper: WHEN THEY FIRED UP THE MOTORS, UNLIKE A HELICOPTER, THE JOBY DIDN'T NEED TIME TO WARM UP. 312 00:34:52,256 --> 00:34:59,096 IT TOOK OFF IN ABOUT 20 SECONDS. THAT'S IT? THAT'S REALLY QUIET. >> Bevirt: WE WANTED THIS TO 313 00:34:59,163 --> 00:35:05,236 SOUND MORE LIKE THE WIND IN THE TREES THAN THE "WOP-WOP" OF A HELICOPTER. >> Cooper: NOISE LEVELS ARE A 314 00:35:05,303 --> 00:35:12,176 CRITICAL ISSUE SINCE eVTOLs ARE MEANT TO TAKE OFF AND LAND NEAR WHERE PEOPLE WORK AND LIVE. >> Bevirt: THIS IS BELOW THE 315 00:35:12,243 --> 00:35:16,447 BACKGROUND NOISE LEVEL OF MANY CITIES. YOU KNOW, I GO AROUND WITH MY DECIBEL METER ON MY PHONE AND, 316 00:35:16,514 --> 00:35:19,417 LIKE, MEASURE SOUND LEVELS. ( LAUGHS ) >> Cooper: THAT'S WHAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING FOR TEN YEARS? 317 00:35:19,484 --> 00:35:22,954 >> Bevirt: AND-- AND-- AND-- EXACTLY, BECAUSE WE NEEDED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE AIRCRAFT WAS GOING TO BE QUIET ENOUGH. 318 00:35:23,020 --> 00:35:28,593 >> Cooper: BEVIRT STUDIED MECHANICAL ENGINEERING AT STANFORD WHERE HE INVENTED THIS POPULAR FLEXIBLE CAMERA TRIPOD, 319 00:35:28,659 --> 00:35:36,634 AND LATER CREATED A COMPANY THAT MADE FLYING WIND TURBINES. BUT THE JOBY HAD REMAINED AN ELUSIVE DREAM. 320 00:35:36,701 --> 00:35:42,373 >> Bevirt: THERE WERE DEFINITELY SKEPTICS-- EVEN, YOU KNOW, GOOD FRIENDS OF MINE-- WHO DIDN'T BELIEVE THAT YOU COULD MAKE THIS 321 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,077 WITH BATTERIES AND ELECTRIC PROPULSION. >> Cooper: THE BATTERY TECHNOLOGY JUST WASN'T THERE, IT 322 00:35:46,143 --> 00:35:51,482 WOULDN'T WORK? >> Bevirt: YEAH. >> Cooper: BEVIRT HIRED JON WAGNER AWAY FROM TESLA, WHERE HE 323 00:35:51,549 --> 00:35:57,121 HELPED DEVELOP THE CAR'S REVOLUTIONARY BATTERIES. AT JOBY, HE FIGURED OUT A WAY TO MAKE THE BATTERIES LIGHTER, BUT 324 00:35:57,188 --> 00:36:05,062 STILL POWERFUL ENOUGH TO GET THE TWO-TON eVTOL OFF THE GROUND. >> Jon Wagner: YOU HAD TO PLAY TO THE STRENGTHS OF BATTERY 325 00:36:05,129 --> 00:36:11,335 POWER, AND THE STRENGTHS OF ELECTRIC MOTORS. SO, A TYPICAL AIRCRAFT MIGHT HAVE ONE BIG MOTOR, BUT WE CAN 326 00:36:11,402 --> 00:36:17,041 HAVE SIX MOTORS DISTRIBUTED THROUGHOUT THE AIRCRAFT, AND IN THAT WAY, OPERATE IN A MUCH MORE EFFICIENT MANNER. 327 00:36:17,108 --> 00:36:20,778 >> Cooper: THE WEIGHT OF EVERYTHING MUST BE THE MOST IMPORTANT THING? >> Wagner: ABSOLUTELY. 328 00:36:20,845 --> 00:36:26,751 >> Cooper: SO, HOW DO YOU MAKE A PLANE AS LIGHT AS POSSIBLE? >> Wagner: YOU ESSENTIALLY HAVE TO ENGINEER EVERY PIECE OF IT. 329 00:36:26,817 --> 00:36:32,456 >> Cooper: THE OUTSIDE OF THE JOBY IS MADE WITH LAYERS OF LIGHTWEIGHT CARBON FIBER. THE BATTERIES, AS WELL AS 330 00:36:32,523 --> 00:36:39,063 COMPUTERS, ELECTRONICS, AND MOTORS, ARE CONSTRUCTED UNDER JON WAGNER'S WATCH. THEN HIS TEAM SHAKES, BAKES AND 331 00:36:39,130 --> 00:36:45,169 SPINS THEM TO ENSURE THEY'LL MEET THE F.A.A.'S RIGOROUS SAFETY STANDARDS. THEY HAVE TO CERTIFY THE 332 00:36:45,236 --> 00:36:50,775 AIRCRAFT AS BEING SAFE AND CAPABLE OF FLYING TO THEIR STANDARDS. THEY ALSO HAVE TO CERTIFY 333 00:36:50,841 --> 00:36:56,147 THE PRODUCTION OF ALL THE PARTS OF IT? >> Bevirt: EXACTLY, THE OPERATION, THE PILOT TRAINING, 334 00:36:56,213 --> 00:37:01,719 THE MAINTENANCE STEPS. EVRY FACET IS HEAVILY REGULATED. >> Cooper: ALL THIS COSTS A LOT 335 00:37:01,786 --> 00:37:11,429 OF MONEY. TOYOTA HAS INVESTED ABOUT $400 MILLION IN JOBY, AND BEVIRT TOOK THE COMPANY PUBLIC LAST YEAR. 336 00:37:11,495 --> 00:37:14,465 >> Paul Sciarra: I THINK THE TEXTURE'S GOOD. >> Cooper: BILLIONAIRE PAUL SCIARRA, CO-FOUNDER OF THE 337 00:37:14,532 --> 00:37:20,771 WEBSITE PINTEREST, HAS ALSO PUT IN A SMALL FORTUNE. HE'S JOBY'S EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN, AND SAYS THEY'LL LAUNCH IN UP TO 338 00:37:20,838 --> 00:37:29,246 THREE CITIES, AND THAT PASSENGERS WILL EVENTUALLY END UP PAYING AROUND $3 TO $4 A MILE TO FLY-- A LITTLE MORE THAN AN 339 00:37:29,313 --> 00:37:34,085 AVERAGE UBER RIDE. CAN YOU JUST TAKE ME THROUGH, AS A PASSENGER, WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE? I WANT TO GET TO J.F.K. AIRPORT. 340 00:37:34,151 --> 00:37:39,223 IT'S BUMPER-TO-BUMPER TRAFFIC. WHAT DO I DO? >> Sciarra: TAKE OUT YOUR PHONE, PULL OUT AN APP, AND WITH 341 00:37:39,290 --> 00:37:44,662 ONE CLICK, YOU'RE BOOKING THE WHOLE TRIP. SO, A CAR IS COMING TO WHEREVER YOU ARE IN MANHATTAN, IT'S 342 00:37:44,729 --> 00:37:50,801 TAKING YOU TO THE TAKE-OFF AND LANDING LOCATION, THE VERTIPORT. AND YOU'RE HOPPING IN YOUR JOBY AND IT'S FLYING YOU TO YOUR 343 00:37:50,868 --> 00:37:56,240 FINAL DESTINATION. NOW, MAYBE THERE'S A CAR AT THE OTHER END, OR YOU'RE JUST WALKING TO THE TAIL END. 344 00:37:56,307 --> 00:38:01,245 >> Cooper: IF PEOPLE ARE TAKING CARS TO AND FROM VERTIPORTS-- DOESN'T THAT JUST ADD TO CONGESTION? 345 00:38:01,312 --> 00:38:08,719 >> Sciarra: IF WE'RE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, TAKE OUT 80% OF THE MILES THAT PEOPLE MIGHT BE TRAVELING AND MOVE THOSE MILES 346 00:38:08,786 --> 00:38:16,060 FROM CONGESTED ROADS TO THE AIR, I THINK THAT'S GOING TO HAVE AN IMPACT. >> Cooper: BUT JUST A FEW WEEKS 347 00:38:16,127 --> 00:38:23,501 AFTER WE SAW THIS JOBY AIRCRAFT FLY, IT CRASHED IN FEBRUARY, DUE TO WHAT FEDERAL INVESTIGATORS CALLED A COMPONENT FAILURE. 348 00:38:23,567 --> 00:38:29,306 NO ONE WAS HURT, BUT THE eVTOL WAS TOTALED. BEVIRT SAYS THAT'S ALL PART OF THE TESTING PROCESS, AND IS AS 349 00:38:29,373 --> 00:38:37,314 OPTIMISTIC NOW AS HE WAS WHEN WE INTERVIEWED HIM. HOW FAR ARE YOU FROM GETTING THE FIRST JOBY IN THE SKY WITH 350 00:38:37,381 --> 00:38:41,385 PASSENGERS? >> Bevirt: SO, WE ARE LAUNCHING OUR SERVICE IN 2024. >> Cooper: YOU THINK YOU CAN DO 351 00:38:41,452 --> 00:38:44,121 IT THAT QUICKLY? >> Bevirt: YES. >> Cooper: THERE HAVE BEEN, THOUGH, A LOT OF COMPANIES THAT 352 00:38:44,188 --> 00:38:50,227 HAVE SAID, "OH, WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS IN TWO YEARS," AND THEN IT DOESN'T HAPPEN. >> Bevirt: WE'RE VERY CONFIDENT. 353 00:38:50,294 --> 00:38:56,267 >> Cooper: THERE'S A LOT OF CONFIDENCE OVER AT WISK AERO AS WELL, THOUGH THE eVTOL THEY ARE DEVELOPING WILL BE EVEN MORE 354 00:38:56,333 --> 00:39:05,109 COMPLICATED TO BRING TO MARKET BECAUSE IT'S FULLY AUTONOMOUS. THERE WILL BE PASSENGERS, BUT NO PILOT ON BOARD. 355 00:39:05,176 --> 00:39:09,814 YOU'RE NOT JUST FIGURING OUT AN ELECTRIC VEHICLE, YOU'RE FIGURING OUT A FULLY AUTONOMOUS FLYING VEHICLE? 356 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:14,051 >> Gary Gysin: THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S RIGHT. WE'RE GOING FOR IT. ( LAUGHS ) 357 00:39:14,118 --> 00:39:19,890 YOU AND I TALKED ABOUT THAT. >> Cooper: C.E.O. GARY GYSIN SAYS THEY'RE ON TRACK TO SPEND ABOUT $2 BILLION. 358 00:39:19,957 --> 00:39:25,162 THE COMPANY IS BANKROLLED BY BOEING, AND GOOGLE CO-FOUNDER LARRY PAGE. THEY'VE BEEN TESTING THE 359 00:39:25,229 --> 00:39:31,402 TECHNOLOGY FOR THE LAST EIGHT YEARS. >> CONTROL'S IN POSITION FOR LIFT-OFF. 360 00:39:31,469 --> 00:39:35,306 >> Cooper: SO, HOW MANY TEST FLIGHTS HAVE YOU ACTUALLY DONE? >> Gysin: SO, CLOSE-- CLOSE TO 1,600 TEST FLIGHTS WITHOUT, 361 00:39:35,372 --> 00:39:41,912 YOU KNOW-- KNOCK ON WOOD, WITHOUT AN INCIDENT. >> SELECTING LIFT-OFF NOW. >> Cooper: WE WATCHED ONE OF 362 00:39:41,979 --> 00:39:47,218 THOSE TEST FLIGHTS IN HOLLISTER, CALIFORNIA. A TEAM OF ENGINEERS ABOUT HALF A MILE AWAY STARTED THE eVTOL WITH 363 00:39:47,284 --> 00:39:56,427 THE CLICK OF A MOUSE. THE ENTIRE ROUTE WAS PRE- PROGRAMMED. WHY AUTONOMOUS? 364 00:39:56,494 --> 00:39:59,463 WHY GO THIS ROUTE? >> Gysin: YEAH. SO, WE'RE GOING STRAIGHT TO SELF-FLYING. 365 00:39:59,530 --> 00:40:05,369 SEVERAL REASONS. ONE, IT'S SAFER. >> Cooper: SAFER, HE SAYS, BECAUSE MOST PLANE ACCIDENTS 366 00:40:05,436 --> 00:40:13,310 INVOLVE HUMAN ERROR. MUCH OF COMMERCIAL AVIATION IS ALREADY AUTOMATED, AND GYSIN SEES THE ENTIRE eVTOL INDUSTRY 367 00:40:13,377 --> 00:40:17,515 GOING THAT WAY EVENTUALLY. HE IS DETERMINED TO GET THERE FIRST. >> Gysin: WE DO IT PRIMARILY 368 00:40:17,581 --> 00:40:21,552 FROM A SAFETY PERSPECTIVE, BUT ALSO SCALE. SO, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A PILOT IN THE AIRCRAFT, IT'S LESS 369 00:40:21,619 --> 00:40:26,357 EXPENSIVE. YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO PILOT TRAINING. YOU'RE FLYING FOUR PASSENGERS. 370 00:40:26,423 --> 00:40:34,932 WE CAN CHARGE LESS. WE DON'T WANT THIS TO BE A PREMIUM HELICOPTER-LIKE SERVICE. WE WANT THIS TO BE A SERVICE 371 00:40:34,999 --> 00:40:38,969 THAT'S AFFORDABLE TO THE MASSES. >> Cooper: THERE IS A HURDLE, PSYCHOLOGICALLY, FOR PEOPLE TO GET INTO AN AIRCRAFT THAT DOES 372 00:40:39,036 --> 00:40:44,341 NOT HAVE A HUMAN AT THE CONTROLS. >> Gysin: OF COURSE. AND SO, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO 373 00:40:44,408 --> 00:40:49,914 WITH THAT IS EACH PASSENGER CAN BE IN VERBAL COMMUNICATION WITH THE GROUND. THEY CAN BE TALKING TO A PILOT 374 00:40:49,980 --> 00:40:56,287 WHENEVER THEY WANT TO. SO, IT'S ALL DESIGNED TO PROVIDE COMFORT. IT WILL TAKE TIME. 375 00:40:56,353 --> 00:41:00,424 THIS ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN OVERNIGHT. >> Cooper: GYSIN WANTS TO LAUNCH WISK'S FOUR-SEATER 376 00:41:00,491 --> 00:41:07,631 AIR TAXI SERVICE IN THE WORLD'S 20 BUSIEST CITIES WITHIN THE NEXT DECADE. >> WHEELS DOWN. 377 00:41:07,698 --> 00:41:10,201 >> Cooper: YOU DON'T GIVE A DATE OF WHEN YOU THINK YOU'LL BE OPERATIONAL? >> Gysin: YEAH, YOU KNOW WHY WE 378 00:41:10,267 --> 00:41:14,805 DON'T DO THAT? BECAUSE WE ARE NOT IN CONTROL OF THAT PART. THE F.A.A. IS. 379 00:41:14,872 --> 00:41:22,746 IN EUROPE, IT'S CALLED EASA. THEY'RE IN CHARGE. SO, WHEN THEY CERTIFY AIRCRAFT TO FLY, THAT'S WHEN YOU FLY. 380 00:41:22,813 --> 00:41:29,386 >> Cooper: THE F.A.A. WON'T SAY WHEN AN AUTONOMOUS eVTOL MIGHT BE CERTIFIED, BUT ACTING ADMINISTRATOR BILLY NOLEN TOLD 381 00:41:29,453 --> 00:41:36,927 US, HAILING A PILOTED AIR TAXI BY 2024 IS WELL WITHIN THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY. >> Nolen: THE CHALLENGE FOR US 382 00:41:36,994 --> 00:41:44,001 IT TO MAKE SURE THAT INNOVATION DOESN'T COME AT THE EXPENSE OF SAFETY. BUT CLEARLY, WE ARE SEEING THE 383 00:41:44,068 --> 00:41:49,440 EMERGENCE OF SOMETHING THAT'S FANTASTIC, I THINK. >> Cooper: THIS IS REAL? I MEAN, THIS IS NO LONGER JUST 384 00:41:49,506 --> 00:41:54,545 THE STUFF OF FANTASY? >> Nolen: WE WANT TO BE VERY CAREFUL. WE WANT TO BE VERY MEASURED. 385 00:41:54,612 --> 00:41:59,783 BUT YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. THIS IS REAL. AND THIS IS HAPPENING. WE'VE COME A LONG WAY FROM 386 00:41:59,850 --> 00:42:04,388 WHERE WE WERE JUST, YOU KNOW, A MERE DECADE AGO. ( TICKING ) 387 00:42:07,524 --> 00:42:13,497 >> Cooper: IT'S REALLY COOL! >> TAKING FLIGHT WITH ANDERSON COOPER, AT 60minutesovertime.com. 388 00:42:13,564 --> 00:42:20,771 SPONSORED BY COLOGUARD. 389 00:42:24,508 --> 00:42:30,281 >> Stahl: TONIGHT, JEWS ARE OBSERVING THE THIRD NIGHT OF PASSOVER, WESTERN CHRISTIANS ARE CELEBRATING EASTER SUNDAY, 390 00:42:30,347 --> 00:42:37,154 AND ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS ARE BEGINNING HOLY WEEK. IT IS A SACRED TIME, WHEN HOPE IS RENEWED, WHEN DEATH DOESN'T 391 00:42:37,221 --> 00:42:44,662 HAVE THE LAST WORD, WHEN FREEDOM OVERCOMES REPRESSION. THIS YEAR, IN UKRAINE, DEATH APPEARS TO BE HAVING ITS DAY. 392 00:42:44,728 --> 00:42:55,773 IN MARIUPOL, AN EXODUS OF UKRAINIANS IS IMPEDED BY RUSSIAN BOMBS. IN BUCHA, INSTEAD OF AN 393 00:42:55,839 --> 00:43:05,182 EMPTY TOMB, WE SEE MASS GRAVES BEHIND THE CHURCH OF ST. ANDREW. CITIES LAID TO WASTE, CIVILIAN POPULATIONS WITHOUT 394 00:43:05,249 --> 00:43:10,387 FOOD OR WATER, OR A ROOF OVER THEIR HEADS. THIS IS EASTER. THIS IS PASSOVER. 395 00:43:10,454 --> 00:43:17,861 EVEN IN UKRAINE, BRAVELY, AND WITH THE HELP OF MUCH OF THE WORLD, IT IS A SEASON HOLDING THE PROMISE OF FREEDOM, 396 00:43:17,928 --> 00:43:23,834 AND HOPE. I'M LESLEY STAHL. WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK WITH ANOTHER EDITION OF "60 MINUTES." 397 00:43:23,901 --> 00:43:32,943 ( TICKING ) Captioning funded by CBS and FORD.