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Captioning funded by CBS
and FORD.
We go further, so you can.
( TICKING )
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>> CRITICS WILL SAY, "WHY NOW,
IN A BOOK?
WHY DIDN'T YOU SPEAK OUT DURING
THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION?"
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>> IT'S VERY SIMPLE.
IF I SPOKE OUT AT THE TIME, I
WOULD BE FIRED.
I HAD NO CONFIDENCE THAT ANYBODY
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01:00:24,287 --> 01:00:32,895
THAT CAME IN BEHIND ME WOULD NOT
BE A REAL TRUMP LOYALIST, AND
LORD KNOWS WHAT WOULD'VE
HAPPENED THEN.
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>> TONIGHT, FORMER DEFENSE
SECRETARY MARK ESPER, A LIFELONG
REPUBLICAN, ON HIS TUMULTUOUS
TENURE DURING ONE OF THE MOST
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CHAOTIC TIMES IN THE NATION'S
HISTORY.
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>> EVEN BEFORE THE PANDEMIC,
AMERICAN KIDS HAVE BEEN DEALING
WITH A CRISIS-- RISING RATES OF
SUICIDE, SELF-HARM, ANXIETY, AND
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DEPRESSION.
YOUR GENERATION GOT HIT WITH
THIS IN WHAT'S SUPPOSED BE KIND
OF A FUN, CAREFREE TIME.
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WHAT WAS LOST?
WHAT DID YOU GUYS LOSE DURING
THE PANDEMIC?
>> MYSELF.
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>> YOURSELF?
>> YEAH.
YEAH.
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>> OLGA SMIRANOVA IS A RUSSIAN
PRIMA BALLERINA, ONE OF THE
WORLD'S LEADING DANCERS.
BUT, DAYS AFTER RUSSIA INVADED
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UKRAINE, SMIRNOVA PIROUETTED AND
STEPPED OFF HER STAGE, AT THE
RENOWNED BOLSHOI THEATER, WITH
DRAMATIC FLOURISH.
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>> I WAS SO ASHAMED OF RUSSIA.
THIS IS THE TRUE.
I'M NOT ASHAMED THAT I'M
RUSSIAN, BUT I'M ASHAMED BECAUSE
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OF RUSSIA STARTED THIS ACTION.
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>> I'M LESLEY STAHL.
>> I'M BILL WHITAKER.
>> I'M ANDERSON COOPER.
>> I'M SHARYN ALFONSI.
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>> I'M JON WERTHEIM.
>> I'M NORAH O'DONNELL.
>> I'M SCOTT PELLEY.
THOSE STORIES AND MORE, TONIGHT,
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ON "60 MINUTES."
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>> Norah O'Donnell: MARK ESPER
IS A WASHINGTON INSIDER WHO
SPENT HIS WHOLE CAREER FLYING
BELOW THE RADAR-- UNTIL HE
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BECAME PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP'S
SECOND SECRETARY OF DEFENSE.
A WEST POINT GRADUATE AND
PARATROOPER, ESPER SPENT TEN
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YEARS AS A BY-THE-BOOK ARMY
OFFICER.
AND, WHEN HE LEFT ACTIVE DUTY,
HE MOVED THROUGH THE REVOLVING
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DOORS OF THINK TANK JOBS,
CAPITOL HILL AND PENTAGON STAFF
POSITIONS, AND DEFENSE LOBBYING.
IT ALL TURNED OUT TO BE BOOT
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CAMP FOR HIS ASSIGNMENT AS
DEFENSE SECRETARY-- AND A FACE-
OFF WITH MR. TRUMP, WHOM HE CAME
TO REGARD AS A THREAT TO
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AMERICAN DEMOCRACY.
BUT WE BEGIN TONIGHT WITH THE
FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY'S
THOUGHTS ON RUSSIA'S WAR IN
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UKRAINE.
OVERALL, HOW WOULD YOU GRADE
PRESIDENT BIDEN AND HIS
ADMINISTRATION'S PERFORMANCE, IN
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TERMS OF UKRAINE?
>> Mark Esper: IT'S MIXED.
THEY HAD A SHAKY START.
I WOULD'VE NEVER TAKEN THE
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MILITARY OPTION OFF THE TABLE,
FOR EXAMPLE.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE
RELUCTANCE TO PROVIDE THE
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UKRAINIANS WITH MiGs.
>> O'Donnell: FIGHTER JETS.
>> Esper: FIGHTER JETS, THAT'S
RIGHT.
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BUT, SINCE THEN, IT'S PICKED UP.
I THINK WE'RE NOW FLOWING MORE
SUPPLIES AND MATERIAL AND
WEAPONS INTO UKRAINE.
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I THINK THEY'VE DONE A GOOD JOB
OF BRINGING THE ALLIES ALONG,
WHICH IS IMPORTANT.
YOU-- YOU HAVE TO ACT
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COLLECTIVELY.
AND YOU HAVE TO GIVE SOME
CREDIT, BY THE WAY, TO THE
CONGRESS, WHICH I THINK-- YOU
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KNOW, IN THE FEW-- FEW ISSUES
THAT HAS UNIFIED CONGRESS HAS
BEEN THIS ONE, SUPPORT FOR
UKRAINE.
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AND IN SOME WAYS, THEY'VE LED
THE ADMINISTRATION.
SO, IT'S GOOD TO SEE NOW
CONGRESS AND THE EXECUTIVE
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BRANCH ACTING TOGETHER,
REASONABLY ALIGNED, TO HELP THE
UKRAINIAN PEOPLE.
>> O'Donnell: TOMORROW, MAY 9,
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01:03:36,746 --> 01:03:47,557
MARKS AN IMPORTANT DAY ON THE
RUSSIAN CALENDAR-- VICTORY IN
WORLD WAR II.
>> Esper: WELL, I THINK THE
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CONVENTIONAL WISDOM RIGHT NOW
SEEMS TO BE THAT BY MAY 9th,
PUTIN IS GOING TO TRY AND SECURE
DONBASS, WHICH WOULD BE
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OCCUPYING THE REST OF THE
DONETSK AND LUHANSK PROVINCES,
IF YOU WILL, AND DECLARE THEM
PROTECTED.
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>> O'Donnell: IS THERE ANY
SCENARIO WHERE PRESIDENT PUTIN
COULD TAKE THOSE REGIONS AND
THEN JUST DECLARE VICTORY?
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01:04:02,071 --> 01:04:06,542
>> Esper: ABSOLUTELY,
ABSOLUTELY.
I MEAN, IF I WERE A BETTING MAN
TODAY, I'D SAY THAT IS WHAT HE
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WILL DO.
HE'LL AT LEAST SECURE THE-- ALL
OF DONBASS, DECLARE THAT HE'S
LIBERATED THE RUSSIAN- SPEAKING
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PEOPLES OF THAT REGION, AND
DECLARE VICTORY.
AND THAT WILL BECOME ANOTHER
FROZEN CONFLICT.
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>> O'Donnell: MARK ESPER'S TIME
AS SECRETARY OF DEFENSE BEGAN
WHEN HE WAS OVERWHELMINGLY
CONFIRMED BY THE SENATE 90 TO 8
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01:04:24,961 --> 01:04:32,868
ON JULY 23, 2019.
TWO DAYS LATER, ON A PHONE CALL
WITH PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY, MR.
TRUMP ASKED FOR A "FAVOR"
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WHILE HE WAS HOLDING UP AID TO
UKRAINE.
THE CALL ULTIMATELY LED TO HIS
IMPEACHMENT.
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YOU HAD TO KEEP PRESSING
PRESIDENT TRUMP TO RELEASE $250
MILLION IN AID TO UKRAINE?
>> Esper: YES, IT WOULD BE AN
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ARGUMENT AFTER AN ARGUMENT.
AND I'D HAVE TO SAY, "LOOK, MR.
PRESIDENT, AT THE END OF THE
DAY, CONGRESS APPROPRIATED.
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IT'S-- IT'S THE LAW.
WE HAVE TO DO IT."
>> O'Donnell: ESPER WRITES IN
HIS NEW MEMOIR, CALLED "A SACRED
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OATH," THAT THE UKRAINE AFFAIR
WAS AN EARLY SOURCE OF TENSION
BETWEEN HIM AND PRESIDENT TRUMP.
THAT TENSION WOULD GROW, AS HE
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TOLD US WHEN WE MET HIM AT HIS
ALMA MATER, WEST POINT.
>> Esper: BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT
TO OUR COUNTRY, IT'S IMPORTANT
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01:05:10,539 --> 01:05:16,379
TO THE REPUBLIC, THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE, THAT THEY UNDERSTAND
WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THIS VERY
CONSEQUENTIAL PERIOD, THE LAST
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01:05:16,445 --> 01:05:18,547
YEAR OF THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION.
AND TO TELL THE STORY ABOUT
THINGS WE PREVENTED.
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01:05:18,614 --> 01:05:23,986
REALLY BAD THINGS.
DANGEROUS THINGS, THAT COULD
HAVE TAKEN THE COUNTRY IN-- IN A
DARK DIRECTION.
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>> O'Donnell: WHAT KIND OF
TERRIBLE THINGS DID YOU PREVENT?
>> Esper: AT VARIOUS TIMES,
DURING THE-- CERTAINLY THE LAST
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YEAR OF THE ADMINISTRATION, YOU
KNOW, FOLKS IN THE WHITE HOUSE
ARE PROPOSING TO TAKE MILITARY
ACTION AGAINST VENEZUELA.
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01:05:35,765 --> 01:05:42,972
TO-- TO-- TO STRIKE IRAN.
AT ONE POINT, SOMEBODY PROPOSE
WE BLOCKADE CUBA.
THESE IDEAS WOULD HAPPEN, IT
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01:05:43,039 --> 01:05:47,310
SEEMED, EVERY-- EVERY FEW WEEKS.
SOMETHING LIKE THIS WOULD COME
UP AND WE'D HAVE TO SWAT THEM
DOWN.
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01:05:47,376 --> 01:05:52,081
>> O'Donnell: WHO'S "WE HAD TO
SWAT THEM DOWN"?
>> Esper: WELL, MOSTLY ME.
I HAD GOOD SUPPORT FROM-- FROM
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GENERAL MARK MILLEY.
>> O'Donnell: MARK ESPER AND
CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF
STAFF GENERAL MARK MILLEY RAN
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01:05:57,453 --> 01:06:00,956
THE ARMY FOR OVER A YEAR BEFORE
FINDING THEMSELVES IN CHARGE AT
THE PENTAGON.
IN ORDER TO DEAL WITH WHAT HE
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01:06:01,023 --> 01:06:06,796
CALLS SOME OF THE "CRAZY" IDEAS
COMING FROM THE WHITE HOUSE,
ESPER AND MILLEY CAME UP WITH A
SYSTEM.
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01:06:06,862 --> 01:06:13,969
>> Esper: I COME UP WITH THIS
IDEA.
ACTUALLY, MARK MILLEY AND I
DISCUSS IT-- WHAT WE CALL THE
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"FOUR NO'S".
THE FOUR THINGS WE HAD TO
PREVENT FROM HAPPENING BETWEEN
THEN AND THE ELECTION.
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01:06:22,244 --> 01:06:30,920
AND ONE WAS NO STRATEGIC
RETREATS, NO UNNECESSARY WARS,
NO POLITI-- POLITICIZATION OF
THE MILITARY, AND NO MISUSE OF
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01:06:30,986 --> 01:06:35,758
THE MILITARY.
AND SO, AS WE WENT THROUGH THE
NEXT FIVE TO SIX MONTHS, THAT
BECAME THE METRIC BY WHICH WE
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WOULD MEASURE THINGS.
>> O'Donnell: ESPER TOLD US HE
HAD REASON TO BE CONCERNED, NOT
JUST ABOUT AN UNNECESSARY
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MILITARY CONFLICT WITH AN
ADVERSARY, BUT WITH ONE OF OUR
CLOSEST NEIGHBORS AND LARGEST
TRADING PARTNERS.
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>> Esper: THE PRESIDENT PULLS ME
ASIDE ON AT LEAST A COUPLE OF
OCCASIONS, AND SUGGESTS THAT
MAYBE WE HAVE THE U.S. MILITARY
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01:06:54,410 --> 01:06:59,749
SHOOT MISSILES INTO MEXICO--
>> O'Donnell: SHOOT MISSILES
INTO MEXICO FOR WHAT?
>> Esper: HE WOULD SAY, TO-- TO
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01:06:59,815 --> 01:07:06,956
GO AFTER THE CARTELS.
AND WE WOULD HAVE THIS PRIVATE
DISCUSSION WHERE I'D SAY, "MR.
PRESIDENT, I-- YOU KNOW, I-- I
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01:07:07,022 --> 01:07:11,827
UNDERSTAND THE MOTIVE"-- BECAUSE
HE WAS VERY SERIOUS ABOUT
DEALING WITH DRUGS IN AMERICA.
I GET THAT.
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01:07:11,894 --> 01:07:14,997
WE ALL UNDERSTAND.
BUT I HAD TO EXPLAIN TO HIM,
"WE-- WE CAN'T DO THAT.
IT WOULD VIOLATE INTERNATIONAL
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01:07:15,064 --> 01:07:19,201
LAW.
IT WOULD BE TERRIBLE FOR OUR
NEIGHBORS TO THE SOUTH.
IT WOULD, YOU KNOW, IMPACT US IN
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01:07:19,268 --> 01:07:22,571
SO MANY WAYS.
WHY-- WHY DON'T WE DO THIS
INSTEAD?"
>> O'Donnell: YOU POLITELY PUSH
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BACK ON THE IDEA.
DID PRESIDENT TRUMP REALLY SAY,
"NO ONE WOULD KNOW IT WAS US"?
>> Esper: YES.
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01:07:30,379 --> 01:07:34,517
YES.
I-- I-- HE-- HE SAID THAT.
AND I-- I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS
FANCIFUL, RIGHT?
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01:07:34,583 --> 01:07:39,989
BECAUSE, OF COURSE IT WOULD BE
US.
I WAS RELUCTANT TO TELL THIS
STORY, BECAUSE I THINK-- I-- I
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01:07:40,055 --> 01:07:43,926
THOUGHT, PEOPLE WON'T BELIEVE
THIS.
THAT THEY'LL THINK I'M JUST
MAKING IT UP, AND FOLKS IN-- IN-
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01:07:43,993 --> 01:07:51,834
- IN TRUMP'S ORBIT WILL-- WILL
DISPUTE IT.
AND THEN I WAS HAVING DINNER
AFTER THE ELECTION IN 2020 WITH
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A FELLOW CABINET MEMBER.
AND-- AND HE SAID TO ME, HE
GOES, "YOU KNOW, REMEMBER THAT
TIME WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP
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01:07:58,674 --> 01:08:03,012
SUGGESTED YOU SHOOT MESS-- M--
MISSILES INTO MEXICO?"
AND I SAID TO HIM, "YOU-- YOU
HEARD THAT?"
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01:08:03,078 --> 01:08:07,183
HE GOES, "OH, YEAH.
I-- I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT.
AND I COULDN'T BELIEVE HOW-- HOW
WELL YOU MANAGED AND TALKED HIM
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01:08:07,249 --> 01:08:12,054
DOWN FROM THAT."
AND AT THAT MOMENT, I KNEW I'VE
GOT TO WRITE THE STORY, BECAUSE
AT LEAST I HAVE ONE WITNESS WHO
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WILL VERIFY THAT THIS REALLY DID
HAPPEN.
>> O'Donnell: WHEN ASKED WHETHER
ESPER'S STORY ABOUT MEXICO WAS
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01:08:15,958 --> 01:08:23,999
TRUE, DONALD TRUMP SAID IN A
STATEMENT TO "60 MINUTES,"
"NO COMMENT."
ESPER SAYS TO FACT-CHECK HIS
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01:08:24,066 --> 01:08:31,173
BOOK, HE SENT ALL-- OR PARTS OF-
- HIS MANUSCRIPT TO MORE THAN
TWO DOZEN CURRENT AND FORMER
FOUR-STAR OFFICERS, SENIOR
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01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:37,279
CIVILIANS FROM THE PENTAGON, AND
CABINET MEMBERS.
"60 MINUTES" SPOKE TO SIX OF
THEM, WHO SAID WHAT THEY READ
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01:08:37,346 --> 01:08:47,890
WAS ACCURATE.
DURING THE LATE SPRING OF 2020,
IT WAS NOT A FOREIGN CRISIS, BUT
THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD IN
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01:08:47,957 --> 01:08:55,164
MINNEAPOLIS, THAT ESPER CALLS A
"TURNING POINT" IN HIS TIME AS
SECRETARY OF DEFENSE.
ON THE NIGHT OF MAY 31, IN
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01:08:55,231 --> 01:09:01,570
WASHINGTON, PROTESTS FOR RACIAL
JUSTICE WERE MARRED BY RIOTERS,
WHO SET PARTS OF WASHINGTON
ABLAZE, AND, ESPER SAYS, ENRAGED
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01:09:01,637 --> 01:09:09,879
PRESIDENT TRUMP.
AT A MEETING THE NEXT MORNING,
ESPER TOLD US, THE COMMANDER IN
CHIEF WAS ON THE VERGE OF
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ORDERING 10,000 ACTIVE-DUTY
TROOPS INTO THE STREETS OF THE
CAPITAL.
WHAT WAS THE MOST DISTURBING
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01:09:14,483 --> 01:09:21,090
THING THAT THE PRESIDENT SAID
DURING THAT MEETING ON JUNE 1ST?
>> Esper: THE PRESIDENT IS
RANTING AT-- AT THE ROOM.
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01:09:21,156 --> 01:09:28,998
HE'S USING A LOT OF, YOU KNOW--
FOUL LANGUAGE.
YOU KNOW, "YOU-- Y-- YOU ALL ARE
'EFF'-ING LOSERS," RIGHT?
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AND THEN HE SAYS IT TO THE VICE
PRESIDENT, MIKE PENCE.
HE-- HE'S USING THE SAME
LANGUAGE, AND HE'S LOOKING AT
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01:09:31,934 --> 01:09:35,638
PENCE.
>> O'Donnell: HE CALLED MIKE
PENCE AN "EFF"-ING LOSER?
>> Esper: HE-- HE DI-- HE
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01:09:35,704 --> 01:09:39,975
DIDN'T-- HE DIDN'T CALL HIM
DIRECTLY, BUT HE WAS LOOKING AT
HIM WHEN HE WAS SAYING IT.
AND IT REALLY CAUGHT MY
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01:09:40,042 --> 01:09:46,849
ATTENTION.
AND I THOUGHT, "THAT-- WE'RE AT
A DIFFERENT SPOT NOW.
HE'S GOING TO FINALLY GIVE A
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01:09:46,916 --> 01:09:51,820
DIRECT ORDER TO DEPLOY--
PARATROOPERS INTO THE STREETS OF
WASHINGTON, D.C."
AND I'M THINKING, WITH WEAPONS
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01:09:51,887 --> 01:09:58,093
AND BAYONETS, THIS WOULD BE
HORRIBLE.
>> O'Donnell: WHAT SPECIFICALLY
WAS HE SUGGESTING THAT THE U.S.
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01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:04,033
MILITARY SHOULD DO TO THESE
PROTESTERS?
>> Esper: HE SAYS, "CAN'T YOU
JUST SHOOT THEM?
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01:10:04,099 --> 01:10:08,437
JUST SHOOT THEM IN THE LEGS OR
SOMETHING."
AND HE'S SUGGESTING THAT THAT'S
WHAT WE SHOULD DO, THAT WE
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01:10:08,504 --> 01:10:17,046
SHOULD BRING IN THE TROOPS AND
SHOOT THE PROTESTERS.
>> O'Donnell: THE COMMANDER IN
CHIEF WAS SUGGESTING THAT THE
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01:10:17,112 --> 01:10:21,083
U.S. MILITARY SHOOT PROTESTERS?
AMERICAN PROTESTERS.
>> Esper: YES, IN THE STREETS OF
OUR NATION'S CAPITAL.
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01:10:21,150 --> 01:10:25,721
THAT'S RIGHT.
SHOCKING.
>> O'Donnell: WE HAVE SEEN, IN
OTHER COUNTRIES, A GOVERNMENT
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01:10:25,788 --> 01:10:31,226
USE THEIR MILITARY TO SHOOT
PROTESTERS.
>> Esper: RIGHT.
>> O'Donnell: WHAT KIND OF
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01:10:31,293 --> 01:10:34,964
GOVERNMENTS ARE THOSE?
>> Esper: OH, THOSE ARE BANANA
REPUBLICS, RIGHT?
OR AUTHORITARIAN REGIMES.
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01:10:35,030 --> 01:10:42,371
WE ALL REMEMBER TIANANMEN
SQUARE, RIGHT, IN CHINA.
>> O'Donnell: REGARDING WHETHER
HE SUGGESTED SHOOTING
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01:10:42,438 --> 01:10:49,244
PROTESTERS, IN HIS STATEMENT,
FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID
"THIS IS A COMPLETE LIE, AND TEN
WITNESSES CAN BACK IT UP.
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01:10:49,311 --> 01:10:56,885
MARK ESPER WAS WEAK AND TOTALLY
INEFFECTIVE, AND BECAUSE OF IT,
I HAD TO RUN THE MILITARY."
ESPER TOLD US HE WANTED TO AVOID
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01:10:56,952 --> 01:11:03,959
THE PRESIDENT INVOKING THE
INSURRECTION ACT, WHICH WOULD
HAVE ALLOWED MR. TRUMP TO DEPLOY
ACTIVE-DUTY TROOPS.
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01:11:04,026 --> 01:11:11,266
INSTEAD, ESPER SAYS HE HELPED
MOBILIZE 5,000 MEMBERS OF THE
NATIONAL GUARD, WHOSE MISSION
INCLUDES RESPONDING TO CIVIL
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01:11:11,333 --> 01:11:18,574
UNREST.
AND, TO PLACATE MR. TRUMP, ESPER
WRITES, HE ALSO ORDERED PART OF
THE 82nd AIRBORNE UP FROM FORT
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01:11:18,641 --> 01:11:26,715
BRAGG, NORTH CAROLINA TO A BASE
JUST OUTSIDE WASHINGTON.
THAT EVENING, THE U.S. PARK
POLICE USED FORCE TO CLEAR
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01:11:26,782 --> 01:11:31,587
PROTESTORS FROM LAFAYETTE PARK,
AND THE CABINET WAS CALLED BACK
TO THE WHITE HOUSE.
>> Esper: THE PRESIDENT GREETS
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01:11:31,654 --> 01:11:40,029
US, AND I SAY, "WHERE ARE WE
GOING?"
AND HE-- HE JUST IGNORES IT, AND
STARTS WALKING OUT THE DOOR AND
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01:11:40,095 --> 01:11:48,170
CROSSING-- ACROSS THE-- THE
LAWN, HEADING OUT THE GATE.
AND AS WE ROUND THAT CORNER, THE
PRESS IS ALL OVER-- ALL OVER THE
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01:11:48,237 --> 01:11:52,041
PLACE, FILMING, TAKING PICTURES.
AND IT-- IT JUST DAWNED ON ME,
AT THAT POINT IN TIME, THAT WE'D
BEEN DUPED.
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01:11:52,107 --> 01:11:58,447
>> O'Donnell: DUPED, HOW?
>> Esper: THIS IS A POL-- THIS
IS NOW A POLITICAL STUNT, RIGHT?
AND-- AND W-- WE-- I ALLOWED
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MYSELF TO BE PUT IN THAT
POSITION.
AND IT ONLY GETS WORSE, RIGHT?
>> O'Donnell: HOW DOES IT GET
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01:12:04,086 --> 01:12:10,059
WORSE?
>> Esper: WELL, WE END UP IN
LAFAYETTE PARK, UP NEAR THE
CHURCH.
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01:12:10,125 --> 01:12:13,495
AND THAT'S WHERE THE PRESIDENT
STEPS OUT OF THE CROWD, IF YOU
WILL, GOES UP, PICKS UP THE
BIBLE AND HOLDS IT UP FOR
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01:12:13,562 --> 01:12:20,235
EVERYBODY TO SEE.
AND I EVENTUALLY GET DIRECTED TO
COME UP AND JOIN HIM.
AND, I MADE THAT MISTAKE TO-- TO
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01:12:20,302 --> 01:12:27,242
KIND OF BE THERE IN THE FIRST
PLACE, AND TO JOIN HIM.
>> O'Donnell: WITHIN 24 HOURS,
ESPER SAYS, HE SENT OUT A
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01:12:27,309 --> 01:12:34,283
MESSAGE TO EMPLOYEES OF THE
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE REMINDING
THEM THEY MUST REMAIN APOLITICAL
AND PROTECT FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
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01:12:34,349 --> 01:12:39,154
THEN, HE DECIDED THAT WASN'T
ENOUGH.
>> Esper: THE REPUBLIC FELT
WOBBLY.
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01:12:39,221 --> 01:12:46,695
AND THAT'S WHAT PROMPTED ME TO
DECIDE TO-- TO GO BEFORE THE
PODIUM AT THE PENTAGON ON JUNE 3
AND SAY WHAT I SAID.
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01:12:46,762 --> 01:12:50,566
THE OPTION TO USE ACTIVE-DUTY
FORCES IN A LAW ENFORCEMENT ROLE
SHOULD ONLY BE USED AS A MATTER
OF LAST RESORT, AND ONLY IN THE
127
01:12:50,632 --> 01:12:57,439
MOST URGENT AND DIRE OF
SITUATIONS.
E ARE NOT IN ONE OF THOSE
SITUATIONS NOW.
128
01:12:57,506 --> 01:13:03,512
I DO NOT SUPPORT INVOKING THE
INSURRECTION ACT.
>> O'Donnell: RIGHT AFTER THAT,
ESPER WAS SUMMONED TO THE WHITE
129
01:13:03,579 --> 01:13:07,449
HOUSE.
HE SAYS HE WAS SURE DONALD TRUMP
WOULD FIRE HIM.
WHY DID YOU THINK HE WOULD FIRE
130
01:13:07,516 --> 01:13:14,990
YOU?
>> Esper: BECAUSE I PUBLICLY
REBUKED HIM.
AND WHAT I WOULD LEARN LATER IS,
131
01:13:15,057 --> 01:13:18,594
AT THE WHITE HOUSE, IS HE
THOUGHT I TOOK AWAY HIS
AUTHORITY TO INVOKE THE
INSURRECTION ACT.
132
01:13:18,660 --> 01:13:23,398
HE DID NOT BELIEVE THAT HE HAD
THE AUTHORITY TO IMPOSE IT.
>> O'Donnell: POLITICALLY, YOU
MIGHT HAVE.
133
01:13:23,465 --> 01:13:31,440
>> Esper: I SUPPOSE, AT A
POLITICAL LEVEL, I-- I DID.
BUT HE STILL HAD THAT AUTHORITY.
WHAT HE ALSO KNEW WAS, I WASN'T
134
01:13:31,507 --> 01:13:34,977
GOING TO GO ALONG WITH HIM.
>> O'Donnell: ESPER BELIEVES
PRESIDENT TRUMP DIDN'T FIRE HIM
AT THE TIME BECAUSE IT MAY HAVE
135
01:13:35,043 --> 01:13:42,417
HURT MR. TRUMP'S CHANCES FOR RE-
ELECTION.
ESPER ALSO TOLD US HE DID NOT
VOTE FOR EITHER JOE BIDEN OR
136
01:13:42,484 --> 01:13:52,561
DONALD TRUMP, BUT MAILED IN A
BALLOT FOR ANOTHER CANDIDATE.
YOU'RE A LIFELONG REPUBLICAN.
BUT, IN THIS BOOK, YOU DETAIL
137
01:13:52,628 --> 01:14:00,836
HOW YOU SUBVERTED MANY OF THE
PRESIDENT'S WISHES.
PEOPLE WILL SAY YOU WERE
DISLOYAL.
138
01:14:00,903 --> 01:14:03,539
>> Esper: I NEVER DISOBEYED A
DIRECT ORDER FROM THE PRESIDENT
OF THE UNITED STATES.
I WAS FORTUNATE THAT HE OFTEN
139
01:14:03,605 --> 01:14:08,377
DIDN'T GIVE DIRECT ORDERS.
BUT OTHERWISE, I DID WHAT I
THOUGHT WAS BEST FOR THE NATION
AND FOR OUR SECURITY, AND
140
01:14:08,443 --> 01:14:14,049
COMPLETELY WITHIN THE AUTHORITY
GRANTED TO ME UNDER THE LAW.
>> O'Donnell: CRITICS WILL SAY,
"WHY NOW, IN A BOOK?
141
01:14:14,116 --> 01:14:20,255
WHY DIDN'T YOU SPEAK OUT DURING
THE RUMP ADMINISTRATION?"
>> Esper: IT'S VERY SIMPLE.
IF I SPOKE OUT AT THE TIME, I
142
01:14:20,322 --> 01:14:25,928
WOULD BE FIRED, NUMBER ONE.
AND SECONDLY, I HAD NO
CONFIDENCE THAT ANYBODY THAT
CAME IN BEHIND ME WOULD NOT BE A
143
01:14:25,994 --> 01:14:32,568
REAL TRUMP LOYALIST.
AND LORD KNOWS WHAT WOULD'VE
HAPPENED THEN.
>> O'Donnell: ESPER SAYS, SIX
144
01:14:32,634 --> 01:14:39,741
DAYS AFTER THE ELECTION, HE AND
HIS STAFF COULD HARDLY BELIEVE
THEY WERE STILL AT THE PENTAGON.
THEN HE GOT WORD THAT THE
145
01:14:39,808 --> 01:14:46,915
PRESIDENT PLANNED TO FIRE HIM.
THE PHONE RANG, AND DONALD
TRUMP'S CHIEF OF STAFF, MARK
MEADOWS, WAS ON THE LINE.
146
01:14:46,982 --> 01:14:52,221
YOU WRITE IN THE BOOK, HE SAYS,
"THE PRESIDENT'S NOT HAPPY WITH
YOU.
HE FEELS YOU HAVEN'T SUPPORTED
147
01:14:52,287 --> 01:14:59,394
HIM ENOUGH."
HE ADDED, "YOU AREN'T
SUFFICIENTLY LOYAL."
AND THEN, YOU REPLIED?
148
01:14:59,461 --> 01:15:04,333
>> Esper: I SAY, YOU KNOW,
"THAT'S HIS PREROGATIVE, TO FIRE
ME."
BUT I SAY, "MY OATH IS TO THE
149
01:15:04,399 --> 01:15:18,413
CONSTITUTION, NOT TO HIM."
( TICKING )
>> Sharyn Alfonsi: THE U.S.
SURGEON GENERAL HAS CALLED IT AN
150
01:15:18,480 --> 01:15:24,453
"URGENT PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS"--
A DEVASTATING DECLINE IN THE
MENTAL HEALTH OF KIDS ACROSS THE
COUNTRY.
151
01:15:24,519 --> 01:15:30,559
ACCORDING TO THE C.D.C., THE
RATES OF SUICIDE, SELF-HARM,
ANXIETY, AND DEPRESSION ARE UP
AMONG ADOLESCENTS-- A TREND THAT
152
01:15:30,626 --> 01:15:44,072
BEGAN BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.
TONIGHT, WE'LL TAKE YOU TO
MILWAUKEE, WISCONSIN, A
COMMUNITY TRYING TO HELP ITS
153
01:15:44,139 --> 01:15:46,742
KIDS NAVIGATE A MENTAL HEALTH
CRISIS.
WISCONSIN HAS THE FIFTH HIGHEST
INCREASE OF ADOLESCENT SELF-HARM
154
01:15:46,808 --> 01:15:54,283
AND ATTEMPTED SUICIDE IN THE
COUNTRY, WITH RATES NEARLY
DOUBLING SINCE BEFORE THE
PANDEMIC.
155
01:15:54,349 --> 01:16:00,856
( SIRENS )
IN THE EMERGENCY ROOM AT
CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL IN
MILWAUKEE, DOCTORS LIKE MICHELLE
156
01:16:00,923 --> 01:16:06,461
PICKETT ARE SEEING MORE KIDS
DESPERATE FOR MENTAL HEALTH
HELP.
>> Dr. Michelle Pickett: WE
157
01:16:06,528 --> 01:16:13,769
UNFORTUNATELY SEE A LOT OF KIDS
WHO HAVE ATTEMPTED SUICIDE.
THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE SEE
I'D SAY AT LEAST ONCE A SHIFT.
158
01:16:13,835 --> 01:16:19,741
>> Alfonsi: ONCE A SHIFT?
>> Dr. Pickett: OH, YES.
YES, UNFORTUNATELY.
>> Alfonsi: DR. PICKETT HAS
159
01:16:19,808 --> 01:16:24,846
WORKED IN THE E.R. FOR NINE
YEARS.
IS THERE ANY GROUP THAT'S NOT
BEING IMPACTED?
160
01:16:24,913 --> 01:16:30,585
>> Dr. Pickett: NO.
WE'RE SEEING IT ALL-- KIDS, YOU
KNOW, WHO COME FROM VERY WELL-
OFF FAMILIES; KIDS WHO DON'T;
161
01:16:30,652 --> 01:16:37,759
KIDS WHO ARE SUBURBAN; KIDS WHO
ARE URBAN; KIDS WHO ARE RURAL.
WE'RE-- WE'RE SEEING IT ALL.
>> Alfonsi: THE SURGE OF
162
01:16:37,826 --> 01:16:45,033
FAMILIES NEEDING HELP FOR THEIR
KIDS HAS REVEALED A DEFICIT OF
PEOPLE AND PLACES TO TREAT THEM.
ACROSS THE COUNTRY, THE AVERAGE
163
01:16:45,100 --> 01:16:52,007
WAIT TIME TO GET AN APPOINTMENT
WITH A THERAPIST IS 48 DAYS, AND
FOR CHILDREN, IT'S OFTEN LONGER.
WHAT DOES IT SAY TO YOU THAT THE
164
01:16:52,074 --> 01:16:56,945
PLACE THEY HAVE TO COME TO IS
THE EMERGENCY ROOM?
>> Dr. Pickett: THAT THERE'S
SOMETHING WRONG WITH OUR SYSTEM.
165
01:16:57,012 --> 01:17:04,019
THE EMERGENCY ROOM SHOULD NOT BE
THE PLACE TO GO AND GET, YOU
KNOW, ACUTE MENTAL HEALTH CARE
WHEN YOU'RE IN A CRISIS.
166
01:17:04,086 --> 01:17:06,888
WE ARE NOT A NICE, CALM
ENVIRONMENT.
>> Alfonsi: BUT THEY'RE
DESPERATE.
167
01:17:06,955 --> 01:17:15,764
>> Dr. Pickett: YEAH, WE'RE
THERE, AND WE SEE EVERYBODY.
BUT I WISH THERE WERE MORE
PLACES THAT KIDS COULD GO TO GET
168
01:17:15,831 --> 01:17:22,537
THE HELP THAT THEY NEED.
>> Alfonsi: TO MANAGE THE MENTAL
HEALTH CRISIS AND HEAVY
CASELOAD, DR. PICKETT INTRODUCED
169
01:17:22,604 --> 01:17:30,545
AN iPAD WITH A SERIES OF
QUESTIONS THAT SCREEN THE MENTAL
HEALTH OF EVERY CHILD TEN AND
OLDER WHO COMES TO THE E.R. FOR
170
01:17:30,612 --> 01:17:38,553
ANY REASON.
AMONG THE QUESTIONS: "HAVE YOU
BEEN HAVING THOUGHTS ABOUT
KILLING YOURSELF?" AND "HAVE YOU
171
01:17:38,620 --> 01:17:41,757
FELT YOUR FAMILY WOULD BE BETTER
OFF IF YOU WERE DEAD?"
HARSH QUESTIONS, THAT CAN BE
LIFESAVERS TO THE KIDS WHO
172
01:17:41,823 --> 01:17:52,134
ANSWER THEM.
>> Dr. Pickett: WE'VE HAD FOUR
KIDS THAT I KNOW OF PERSONALLY,
THAT CAME IN FOR A COMPLETELY
173
01:17:52,200 --> 01:17:58,006
UNRELATED PROBLEM.
SO, A BROKEN ARM OR AN EARACHE,
OR WHATEVER IT WAS.
AND ACTUALLY, WERE ACUTELY
174
01:17:58,073 --> 01:18:05,180
SUICIDAL, TO THE POINT WHERE WE
NEEDED TO TRANSFER THEM TO
INPATIENT FACILITY RIGHT THEN
AND THERE.
175
01:18:05,247 --> 01:18:12,020
SO, WE'RE CATCHING KIDS, YOU
KNOW, WHO ARE IN VERY MUCH
CRISIS LIKE THAT.
BUT WE'RE ALSO CATCHING THE KIDS
176
01:18:12,087 --> 01:18:15,724
THAT JUST NEED HELP AND DON'T
KNOW WHAT TO DO, AND HAVEN'T
REALLY TALKED ABOUT THIS.
>> Alfonsi: ACCORDING TO THE
177
01:18:15,791 --> 01:18:19,895
C.D.C., HOSPITAL ADMISSIONS DATA
SHOWS THE NUMBER OF TEENAGE
GIRLS WHO HAVE BEEN SUICIDAL HAS
INCREASED 50% NATIONWIDE SINCE
178
01:18:19,961 --> 01:18:26,001
2019.
SOPHIA JIMENEZ WAS ONE OF THEM.
>> Sophia Jimenez: I REMEMBER
CRYING EVERY NIGHT AND NOT
179
01:18:26,068 --> 01:18:34,609
KNOWING WHAT WAS GOING ON AND I
FELT SO ALONE.
>> Alfonsi: SOPHIA, AND HER
FRIEND NEENAH HUGHES, WERE IN
180
01:18:34,676 --> 01:18:38,713
EIGHTH GRADE, LOOKING FORWARD TO
HIGH SCHOOL, WHEN COVID TURNED
THEIR WORLDS UPSIDE DOWN.
>> Neenah Hughes: I'VE ALWAYS
181
01:18:38,780 --> 01:18:49,724
BEEN A SUPER SMART KID, AND I'VE
ALWAYS HAD REALLY GOOD GRADES.
AND THEN, AS SOON AS THE
PANDEMIC HIT, I FAILED A CLASS.
182
01:18:49,791 --> 01:18:55,964
WHEN I WAS VIRTUAL, I HAD NO
MOTIVATION TO DO ANYTHING.
I WOULD JUST SIT IN MY ROOM,
NEVER LEAVE, AND IT WAS, LIKE,
183
01:18:56,031 --> 01:19:06,508
OBVIOUS SIGNS OF DEPRESSION.
>> Jimenez: MY MENTAL HEALTH GOT
REALLY BAD, ESPECIALLY MY EATING
DISORDER.
184
01:19:06,575 --> 01:19:14,716
I WAS BASICALLY HOME ALONE ALL
DAY.
MY PARENTS-- WELL, THEY NOTICED
THAT I WASN'T EATING.
185
01:19:14,783 --> 01:19:20,489
I WOULD REFUSE TO EAT.
SO THEN THEY ENDED UP TAKING ME
TO THE HOSPITAL.
>> Alfonsi: SOPHIA HAD TO STAY
186
01:19:20,555 --> 01:19:24,459
IN THE HOSPITAL FOR TWO WEEKS
BEFORE A BED OPENED UP AT A
PSYCHIATRIC FACILITY.
YOUR GENERATION, LIKE, GOT HIT
187
01:19:24,526 --> 01:19:30,665
WITH THIS, IN WHAT'S SUPPOSED BE
KIND OF A FUN, CAREFREE TIME.
WHAT WAS LOST?
WHAT DID YOU GUYS LOSE DURING
188
01:19:30,732 --> 01:19:38,673
THE PANDEMIC?
>> Jimenez: MYSELF.
>> Alfonsi: YOURSELF.
>> Hughes: YEAH.
189
01:19:38,740 --> 01:19:49,184
I WOULD DEFINITELY SAY THERE
WERE BIG PIECES OF MYSELF THAT
I-- WERE DEFINITELY LOST.
I LOST FRIENDS, BECAUSE WE
190
01:19:49,251 --> 01:19:58,693
WOULDN'T SEE EACH OTHER.
WE COULDN'T GO TO OUR FIRST
HOMECOMING.
I COULDN'T HAVE AN EIGHTH-GRADE
191
01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:09,804
GRADUATION.
I KNOW THAT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE
THAT BIG OF A DEAL, BUT WE WERE
LOOKING FORWARD...
192
01:20:09,871 --> 01:20:12,440
>> Alfonsi: BUT IT IS A BIG DEAL
WHEN YOU'RE IN EIGHTH GRADE.
>> Hughes: YEAH.
I FEEL LIKE IF THE PANDEMIC
193
01:20:12,507 --> 01:20:18,680
HADN'T HAPPENED AT ALL, A LOT OF
MY, LIKE, SADNESS AND MENTAL
PROBLEMS WOULD NOT BE AS BAD AS
THEY ARE.
194
01:20:18,747 --> 01:20:22,717
IT JUST MADE EVERYTHING WORSE.
>> Alfonsi: ARE WE IN CRISIS
MODE RIGHT NOW?
>> Tammy Makhlouf: WE ARE.
195
01:20:22,784 --> 01:20:31,059
WE ARE IN CRISIS MODE.
AND IT'S SCARY.
>> Alfonsi: TAMMY MAKHLOUF HAS
WORKED AS A CHILD THERAPIST
196
01:20:31,126 --> 01:20:39,334
THROUGHOUT WISCONSIN FOR THE
LAST 25 YEARS.
I THINK THERE WAS A HOPE THAT,
YOU KNOW, WE'RE BACK IN SCHOOL,
197
01:20:39,401 --> 01:20:43,972
THE KIDS ARE ABLE TO SEE THEIR
FRIENDS AGAIN, AND PLAY SPORTS,
THAT THIS WOULD ALL GO AWAY.
HAS IT?
198
01:20:44,039 --> 01:20:50,445
>> Makhlouf: NO.
NO.
I'VE NOTICED THAT THE WAIT LISTS
ARE LONGER, KIDS ARE STRUGGLING
199
01:20:50,512 --> 01:21:01,590
WITH MORE ANXIETY, MORE
DEPRESSION.
SO, WE WERE IN A MENTAL HEALTH
CRISIS PRIOR TO THE PANDEMIC.
200
01:21:01,656 --> 01:21:06,695
>> Alfonsi: DID THE PANDEMIC
ACCELERATE IT?
>> Makhlouf: I BELIEVE SO.
WE'RE COMING OUT OF THE
201
01:21:06,761 --> 01:21:09,564
PANDEMIC, BUT KIDS HAVE STILL
LOST TWO YEARS.
TWO YEARS OF SOCIALIZATION, TWO
YEARS OF EDUCATION, TWO YEARS OF
202
01:21:09,631 --> 01:21:22,744
THEIR WORLD KIND OF BEING SHAKEN
UP.
SO AS WE GET "BACK TO NORMAL,"
I THINK KIDS ARE STRUGGLING.
203
01:21:22,811 --> 01:21:35,857
EVEN WHEN THE PANDEMIC IS OVER,
THIS CRISIS ISN'T GOING TO BE
OVER.
>> Alfonsi: C.D.C. NUMBERS SHOW
204
01:21:35,924 --> 01:21:39,094
THAT EVEN BEFORE THE PANDEMIC,
THE NUMBER OF ADOLESCENTS SAYING
THEY FELT PERSISTENTLY SAD OR
HOPELESS WAS UP 40% SINCE 2009.
205
01:21:39,160 --> 01:21:41,930
THERE ARE LOTS OF THEORIES ON
WHY-- SOCIAL MEDIA, INCREASED
SCREEN TIME, AND ISOLATION-- BUT
THE RESEARCH ISN'T DEFINITIVE.
206
01:21:41,997 --> 01:21:46,534
THIS PAST MARCH, TAMMY MAKHLOUF
WAS TAPPED BY CHILDREN'S
HOSPITAL TO RUN AN URGENT CARE
WALK-IN CLINIC SPECIFICALLY
207
01:21:46,601 --> 01:21:54,542
OPENED TO TREAT KID'S MENTAL
HEALTH.
>> Receptionist: HOW CAN I HELP
YOU GUYS?
208
01:21:54,609 --> 01:22:02,017
>> Mother: WE ARE HERE TO GET
SOME HELP.
>> Alfonsi: OPEN SEVEN DAYS A
WEEK FROM 3:00 TO 9:30, IT IS
209
01:22:02,083 --> 01:22:07,989
ONE OF THE FIRST CLINICS OF ITS
KIND IN THE COUNTRY.
>> Makhlouf: NOW, WHAT'S GOING
TO WORK FOR YOU?
210
01:22:08,056 --> 01:22:10,859
AND WHAT'S GOING TO WORK FOR
YOU?
SO WHEN THEY COME TO OUR CLINIC,
WE ASSESS THEM, AND WE PROVIDE
211
01:22:10,925 --> 01:22:17,932
THEM WITH A THERAPY SESSION.
SO WE GIVE THEM SOME
INTERVENTIONS.
WE GIVE THEM A PLAN, AN ACTION
212
01:22:17,999 --> 01:22:22,904
PLAN.
>> Alfonsi: THE PLANS ARE
CATERED TO EACH CHILD'S
SITUATION, ACTIONABLE THINGS
213
01:22:22,971 --> 01:22:27,509
FAMILIES AND KIDS CAN DO WHILE
THEY LOOK FOR A DOCTOR OR
FACILITY TO MAKE ROOM FOR THEM.
HOW LONG HAVE THE WAIT LISTS
214
01:22:27,575 --> 01:22:38,353
BEEN TO GET HELP?
>> Makhlouf: NORMALLY, YOU'RE
PUT ON, YOU'RE SCHEDULED AN
APPOINTMENT WITHIN A FEW MONTHS.
215
01:22:38,420 --> 01:22:50,098
>> Alfonsi: MONTHS?
>> Makhlouf: YEAH.
AND THEN, IF YOU WANT A CHILD
PSYCHIATRIST, YOU'RE LOOKING AT
216
01:22:50,165 --> 01:22:58,807
MONTHS TO A YEAR.
>> Alfonsi: HOW IMPORTANT IS IT
TO GET THEM HELP WHEN THEY NEED
IT, IMMEDIATELY?
217
01:22:58,873 --> 01:23:01,543
>> Makhlouf: AS DAYS GO ON, THE
SYMPTOMS GET WORSE.
IF YOU HAVE A DEPRESSED CHILD,
YOU KNOW, MAYBE THEY STARTED OUT
218
01:23:01,609 --> 01:23:04,179
WHERE THEY WERE FEELING
DEPRESSED, AND THEN AS THE DAYS
GOES ON, THEY'RE SUICIDAL.
SO IT REALLY-- YOU REALLY DO
219
01:23:04,245 --> 01:23:07,015
NEED TO GET THAT HELP AND THAT
SUPPORT RIGHT AWAY.
>> Alfonsi: 11-YEAR-OLD AUSTIN
BRUENGER DESPERATELY NEEDED THAT
220
01:23:07,082 --> 01:23:10,885
SUPPORT DURING THE PANDEMIC.
HE'S A FIFTH GRADER AT ROOSEVELT
ELEMENTARY SCHOOL IN MILWAUKEE.
HOW OLD WERE YOU WHEN THE
221
01:23:10,952 --> 01:23:18,860
PANDEMIC HIT?
>> Austin Bruenger: I WAS NINE.
I WAS STILL GOING TO SCHOOL, BUT
THEN I KEPT HEARING ON THE NEWS
222
01:23:18,927 --> 01:23:26,935
IN THE CAR, JUST LIKE, PANDEMIC,
STAY PUT, QUARANTINE, 14 DAYS.
>> Alfonsi: WHEN THEY FIRST
SAID, "HEY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO
223
01:23:27,001 --> 01:23:34,576
TO SCHOOL," WHAT WAS YOUR
REACTION AT THAT MOMENT?
>> Austin Bruenger: HEAVEN.
BUT THEN I REALIZED IT'S THE
224
01:23:34,642 --> 01:23:44,152
COMPLETE OPPOSITE.
>> Alfonsi: OPPOSITE, BECAUSE
LIKE MILLIONS OF SCHOOL AGE
KIDS, AUSTIN WAS FORCED INTO
225
01:23:44,219 --> 01:23:50,325
REMOTE LEARNING FOR MORE THAN A
YEAR, AND DISCONNECTED FROM
FRIENDS.
>> Austin Bruenger: I WAS LIKE
226
01:23:50,392 --> 01:23:54,863
THIS SHUT-IN.
THE ONLY WAY YOU COULD SEE
PEOPLE IS THROUGH, LIKE, PHONES,
OR YOUR FAMILY THAT YOU LIVE
227
01:23:54,929 --> 01:24:02,036
WITH.
>> Alfonsi: THAT ISOLATION TOOK
A TOLL ON AUSTIN, WHO WAS
ALREADY STRUGGLING WITH NEWS
228
01:24:02,103 --> 01:24:08,209
THAT HIS PARENTS WERE GETTING A
DIVORCE.
>> Melissa Bruenger: AND THAT'S
WHEN I THINK EVERYTHING JUST
229
01:24:08,276 --> 01:24:19,154
STARTED TO MAGNIFY.
HE, YOU KNOW, HE WAS ALWAYS
ASKING TO SEE HIS FRIENDS.
WE COULDN'T.
230
01:24:19,220 --> 01:24:26,928
AND I REMEMBER THERE WAS ONE
MOMENT THAT HE WAS JUST ON THE
FLOOR, LIKE, KICKING AND
PUNCHING THE AIR.
231
01:24:26,995 --> 01:24:32,200
JUST-- BUT COULDN'T DESCRIBE WHY
HE WAS UPSET.
>> Alfonsi: UNABLE TO VENT WITH
FRIENDS, AND WITHOUT ACCESS TO
232
01:24:32,267 --> 01:24:34,836
IN-PERSON THERAPY, AUSTIN'S
MOTHER MELISSA SAYS HIS WORLD
BEGAN CLOSING IN ON HIM.
>> Melissa Bruenger: IT FELT
233
01:24:34,903 --> 01:24:37,439
LIKE HE WAS INTERACTING LESS AND
JUST KIND OF WITHDRAWING INTO
HIMSELF AND SPENDING A LOT OF
TIME BY HIMSELF.
234
01:24:37,505 --> 01:24:40,108
AND I WENT TO GO TUCK HIM IN,
AND HE SAID, "MOM, I'M HAVING
SUICIDAL THOUGHTS."
>> Alfonsi: AND HE WAS HOW OLD?
235
01:24:40,175 --> 01:24:44,345
>> Melissa Bruenger: HE WAS
NINE.
AND, LIKE, I WAS KIND OF LIKE,
I-- I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY.
236
01:24:44,412 --> 01:24:51,619
I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.
>> Austin Bruenger: I JUST
IMAGINED MYSELF GOING THROUGH
ALL THESE THINGS, LIKE JUMPING
237
01:24:51,686 --> 01:25:00,829
FROM A BUILDING, AND TAKING A
KNIFE FROM MY KITCHEN AND ENDING
MY LIFE.
IT WAS OVER 50 OF THEM THAT JUST
238
01:25:00,895 --> 01:25:07,001
FLOODED MY MIND.
I DON'T REALLY KNOW IF IT WAS
FROM ALL THE, LIKE, ANTI-
SOCIALNESS AND NOT BEING ABLE--
239
01:25:07,068 --> 01:25:15,877
IT ALSO FELT LIKE, WITH THE
DIVORCE CAME A LOT OF YELLING,
AND IT FELT LIKE MY PARENTS
DIDN'T NEED ME ANYMORE.
240
01:25:15,944 --> 01:25:27,222
IT'S JUST REALLY HARD TO THINK
ABOUT THAT MOMENT.
>> Alfonsi: DESPERATE, MELISSA
CALLED AUSTIN'S PEDIATRICIAN,
241
01:25:27,288 --> 01:25:34,996
WHO REFERRED HER TO OUTPATIENT
THERAPISTS AND IN-PATIENT
PSYCHIATRIC PROGRAMS-- ONLY TO
BE TOLD THERE WERE LONG WAITING
242
01:25:35,063 --> 01:25:41,269
LISTS AND NO BEDS.
>> Melissa Bruenger: ALL THIS
STUFF IS RACING THROUGH MY HEAD.
AND THEN FOR THEM TO SAY, "WELL,
243
01:25:41,336 --> 01:25:48,643
THERE'S NO BEDS RIGHT NOW."
AND I'M LIKE, "HOW AM I GOING TO
KEEP HIM SAFE?"
>> Alfonsi: IN AN EFFORT TO TRY
244
01:25:48,710 --> 01:25:57,752
AND KEEP KIDS SAFE, WISCONSIN IS
TRYING ANOTHER APPROACH, THAT'S
BEING ADOPTED IN OTHER PARTS OF
THE COUNTRY.
245
01:25:57,819 --> 01:26:01,322
>> Dr. Brilliant Nimmer: HELLO!
HOW ARE YOU?
>> Alfonsi: 14 PEDIATRIC CLINICS
ACROSS SOUTHEASTERN WISCONSIN
246
01:26:01,389 --> 01:26:06,160
HAVE INCORPORATED FULL-TIME
THERAPISTS INSIDE THEIR
OFFICES...
>> Dr. Nimmer: LOOK WHO I'VE
247
01:26:06,227 --> 01:26:14,836
GOT!
>> Alfonsi: ...OFFERING MENTAL
HEALTH SCREENINGS AND TREATMENT
AS PART OF ROUTINE CARE.
248
01:26:14,903 --> 01:26:20,975
>> Therapist: OKAY, SO LET'S
START WITH OUR ASSESSMENT.
>> Alfonsi: DR. BRILLIANT NIMMER
WAS THE FIRST PEDIATRICIAN IN
249
01:26:21,042 --> 01:26:26,814
MILWAUKEE TO CREATE A
THERAPIST'S OFFICE INSIDE HER
OFFICE.
YOU'RE SAYING, "WE'RE HERE
250
01:26:26,881 --> 01:26:31,986
TOGETHER, WE'RE GOING TO ALL
WORK ON THIS TOGETHER," NOT "WE
CAN'T HELP YOU, GO SEE SOMEBODY
ELSE."
251
01:26:32,053 --> 01:26:38,126
>> Dr. Nimmer: EXACTLY.
AND SO, HAVING THE THERAPIST IN
OUR CLINIC TO REALLY JUST HAVE--
GET A TEAM TOGETHER TO DISCUSS
252
01:26:38,192 --> 01:26:43,064
THAT PATIENT AND FAMILY
TOGETHER, TO BOUNCE IDEAS OFF OF
EACH OTHER, BECAUSE WE BOTH KNOW
THEM SO WELL-- IS SO MUCH BETTER
253
01:26:43,131 --> 01:26:54,208
FOR PATIENT CARE.
>> Alfonsi: DR. NIMMER'S CLINIC
TREATS AN UNDER-SERVED COMMUNITY
WHERE FAMILIES TYPICALLY
254
01:26:54,275 --> 01:26:56,778
STRUGGLE TO GET MENTAL HEALTH
HELP.
THERAPISTS HAVE TREATED MORE
THAN 500 KIDS HERE SINCE THE
255
01:26:56,844 --> 01:27:06,287
PANDEMIC STARTED.
>> Dr. Nimmer: I THINK AS
PEDIATRICIANS AND PRIMARY CARE
PROVIDERS, WE CAN NO LONGER JUST
256
01:27:06,354 --> 01:27:11,125
SOLELY SAY, YOU KNOW, "MENTAL
HEALTH PROVIDERS, YOU'RE THE
ONLY ONES THAT ARE GOING TO BE
TAKING CARE OF OUR PATIENTS, IN
257
01:27:11,192 --> 01:27:21,536
REGARDS TO MENTAL HEALTH."
THIS IS NOW SOMETHING THAT WE
NEED TO BE DOING, TOO.
>> Alfonsi: AUSTIN BRUENGER'S
258
01:27:21,603 --> 01:27:26,074
PEDIATRICIAN NOW HAS A THERAPIST
IN HER OFFICE, TOO.
THEIR FAMILY WAS FORTUNATE TO
FIND REGULAR OUTPATIENT THERAPY
259
01:27:26,140 --> 01:27:32,413
FOR HIS DEPRESSION.
HOW DO YOU FEEL NOW?
>> Austin Bruenger: I DON'T
KNOW.
260
01:27:32,480 --> 01:27:38,419
IT'S MUCH BETTER THAN BEFORE.
EVERYTHING'S GOING UP IN MY
LIFE, KNOWING THAT, LIKE, I'M
FRIENDS WITH EVERYONE IN MY
261
01:27:38,486 --> 01:27:43,157
CLASS, I'M BUILDING BETTER,
LIKE, SOCIAL LIFE.
IT'S FUN TO JUST KNOW THERE'S
OTHERS THAT LIKE THE SAME THINGS
262
01:27:43,224 --> 01:27:53,668
AS ME.
>> Alfonsi: AUSTIN, IT'S NOT AN
EASY THING TO TALK ABOUT ALL
THIS STUFF.
263
01:27:53,735 --> 01:27:59,107
WHY DID YOU AGREE TO TELL US
ABOUT WHAT YOU'VE BEEN THROUGH?
>> Austin Bruenger: BECAUSE THE
WORLD NEEDS TO-- THE WORLD NEEDS
264
01:27:59,173 --> 01:28:09,751
TO KNOW.
MENTAL HEALTH AND STUFF LIKE
THAT NEEDS TO BE TREATED, OR BAD
STUFF COULD HAPPEN.
265
01:28:09,817 --> 01:28:14,489
IF YOU'RE GOING THROUGH THAT BY
YOURSELF, TRY AND CONTACT
SOMEONE YOU KNOW, LIKE YOUR
FRIEND, YOUR FAMILY.
266
01:28:14,555 --> 01:28:16,658
>> Alfonsi: AND TALK ABOUT IT.
>> Austin Bruenger: YEAH.
( TICKING )
267
01:28:20,561 --> 01:28:32,340
>> FIND MENTAL HEALTH RESOURCES
FOR KIDS AND FAMILIES IN
CRISIS, AT
60minutesovertime.com.
268
01:28:32,407 --> 01:28:33,341
( TICKING )
269
01:28:36,110 --> 01:28:40,415
>> Jon Wertheim: FOR DECADES
NOW, RUSSIANS HAVE KNOWN THE
DRILL.
WHEN THERE'S BAD NEWS BREWING,
270
01:28:40,481 --> 01:28:48,790
SUCH AS THE DEATH OF A LEADER,
OR A CONVULSIVE EVENT, SUCH AS
THE CHERNOBYL DISASTER, STATE TV
SWITCHES ITS PROGRAMMING AND
271
01:28:48,856 --> 01:28:55,063
BEGINS AIRING TCHAIKOVSKY'S
BALLET, "SWAN LAKE."
NOTHING-TO-SEE-HERE-FOLKS.
BUT ALSO, NOTE THE CHOICE OF
272
01:28:55,129 --> 01:29:02,303
DISTRACTION.
BALLET IS CENTRALLY IMPORTANT TO
RUSSIAN SOCIETY, AND TO RUSSIAN
IMAGE.
273
01:29:02,370 --> 01:29:10,545
DANCERS SLICING THROUGH THE AIR
AND CHALLENGING LAWS OF PHYSICS
AND GRAVITY REPRESENT CIVILITY
AND GRACE.
274
01:29:10,611 --> 01:29:16,117
BUT, AFTER FEBRUARY 24, WHEN
RUSSIAN MILITARY TROOPS INVADED
UKRAINE, RUSSIAN BALLET TROUPES
HAD THEIR WESTERN TOURS
275
01:29:16,184 --> 01:29:24,392
CANCELED.
AND JUST LAST WEEK, MOSCOW'S
BOLSHOI THEATER ABRUPTLY
CANCELED SHOWS BY DIRECTORS
276
01:29:24,459 --> 01:29:32,400
CRITICAL OF PUTIN'S MILITARY
CAMPAIGN.
AND SO IT IS, THE BRUTAL WAR
PLAYS OUT ON THE MOST DELICATE
277
01:29:32,467 --> 01:29:39,674
OF FRONTS, LEAVING BALLET IN
EXILE.
WHEN BALLET DANCERS ARE
DESCRIBED AS GOD'S ATHLETES,
278
01:29:39,741 --> 01:29:54,422
WELL, YOU COULD OFFER UP OLGA
SMIRNOVA AS SUPPORTING EVIDENCE.
SHE TREADS ON AIR, COMING IN ON
LITTLE CAT FEET.
279
01:29:54,489 --> 01:29:57,024
SHE'S A RUSSIAN PRIMA BALLERINA,
ONE OF THE WORLD'S LEADING
DANCERS.
BUT, DAYS AFTER RUSSIA INVADED
280
01:29:57,091 --> 01:30:01,262
UKRAINE, SMIRNOVA PIROUETTED AND
STEPPED OFF HER STAGE AT THE
RENOWNED BOLSHOI THEATER WITH
DRAMATIC FLOURISH.
281
01:30:01,329 --> 01:30:08,402
SHE TOOK TO SOCIAL MEDIA TO
EXPRESS HER OUTRAGE, AND THEN
FLED THE COUNTRY-- THE MODERN-
DAY VERSION OF NUREYEV OR
282
01:30:08,469 --> 01:30:15,676
BARYSHNIKOV DEFECTING.
WHEN YOU SAT DOWN TO WRITE THAT
SOCIAL MEDIA POST, WHAT DID YOU
WANT TO COMMUNICATE?
283
01:30:15,743 --> 01:30:21,682
WHAT DID YOU WANT TO SAY?
>> Olga Smirnova: I JUST
COULDN'T KEEP IT INSIDE.
I WAS SO ASHAMED OF RUSSIA.
284
01:30:21,749 --> 01:30:31,893
THIS IS THE TRUE.
I'M NOT ASHAMED THAT I'M
RUSSIAN, BUT I'M ASHAMED BECAUSE
OF RUSSIA STARTED THIS ACTION.
285
01:30:31,959 --> 01:30:36,397
>> Wertheim: I WANT TO READ WHAT
YOU WROTE.
YOU SAID YOU WERE AGAINST THIS
WAR WITH EVERY FIBER OF YOUR
286
01:30:36,464 --> 01:30:41,702
BEING.
"BUT I NOW FEEL THAT A LINE HAS
BEEN DRAWN THAT SEPARATES THE
BEFORE AND THE AFTER."
287
01:30:41,769 --> 01:30:48,609
>> Smirnova: IT'S HOW I FELT.
24th OF FEBRUARY, THIS IS-- WAS
THE LINE, BECAUSE IT'S ALL
CHANGED.
288
01:30:48,676 --> 01:30:56,551
ALL CHANGED.
THE REPUTATION OF RUSSIA AND
RUSSIAN PEOPLE, EVEN IF YOU ARE
NOT A SOLDIER, YOU'RE JUST
289
01:30:56,617 --> 01:31:08,529
RUSSIAN.
IT, IT'S ALL-- IT STILL MAKE A
SHADOW ON YOU.
>> Wertheim: BEING RUSSIAN.
290
01:31:08,596 --> 01:31:15,503
>> Smirnova: BEING RUSSIAN.
AND IT'S-- IT'S REALLY PAINFUL.
>> Wertheim: PREDICTABLY,
SMIRNOVA'S POST WENT VIRAL.
291
01:31:15,570 --> 01:31:24,445
SHE WAS, AFTER ALL, A LEADING
LIGHT AT MOSCOW'S BOLSHOI
BALLET.
FROM THE RUSSIAN WORD FOR "BIG,"
292
01:31:24,512 --> 01:31:32,520
BOLSHOI IS THE WORLD'S LARGEST
BALLET COMPANY, AND THE MOST
PRESTIGIOUS.
THE THEATER IS PHYSICALLY CLOSE
293
01:31:32,587 --> 01:31:39,060
TO THE KREMLIN-- A SHORT WALK
AWAY-- AND ALSO ALIGNED
INEXTRICABLY WITH THE RUSSIAN
GOVERNMENT.
294
01:31:39,126 --> 01:31:45,533
TSARS LOVED THE BOLSHOI.
FOR DECADES, COMMUNIST LEADERS
USED THE BOLSHOI THEATER FOR
POLITICAL STAGECRAFT, HOLDING
295
01:31:45,600 --> 01:31:51,739
RALLIES AND GIVING NATIONAL
ADDRESSES THERE.
>> Alexei Ratmansky: THIS IS
SOMETHING THAT CELEBRATES
296
01:31:51,806 --> 01:31:59,547
RUSSIA.
EVERY IMPORTANT GUEST WHO WOULD
VISIT SOVIET UNION WOULD BE
INVITED TO THE BOLSHOI, SEE THE
297
01:31:59,614 --> 01:32:07,121
PERFORMANCE.
AND THAT WAS A PRIDE OF, OF
RUSSIA, AT ANY TIME.
>> Wertheim: ALEXEI RATMANSKY
298
01:32:07,188 --> 01:32:12,560
TRAINED AT THE BOLSHOI SCHOOL,
AND WAS FOR A TIME ITS ARTISTIC
DIRECTOR.
HE WAS BORN IN RUSSIA, BUT GREW
299
01:32:12,627 --> 01:32:21,802
UP IN KYIV, WHERE HIS PARENTS
STILL LIVE.
AT THE TIME OF THE INVASION, HE
WAS IN RUSSIA CHOREOGRAPHING TWO
300
01:32:21,869 --> 01:32:28,242
BALLETS.
HE LEFT THE COUNTRY IMMEDIATELY,
UNWILLING TO CONTINUE WORKING IN
A WORLD SO TIED TO THE PUTIN
301
01:32:28,309 --> 01:32:39,820
REGIME.
>> Ratmansky: AS I WAS GOING IN
A TAXI TO THE AIRPORT, I FELT
THESE TWO CA-- SAND CASTLES
302
01:32:39,887 --> 01:32:50,064
FALLING APART-- BEHIND MY BACK.
>> Wertheim: THOSE SAND CASTLES
WERE THE WORK-- THE WORK YOU HAD
DONE?
303
01:32:50,131 --> 01:32:57,104
>> Ratmansky: YES, YES, YES.
IT WAS AN AGONY.
IT WAS A VERY HARD DAY.
>> Wertheim: AND, OF COURSE, A
304
01:32:57,171 --> 01:33:03,811
CATASTROPHIC DAY FOR UKRAINE.
INDISCRIMINATE BOMBINGS AND
MISSILE STRIKES RAINING DOWN
UPON THE COUNTRY, CRUSHING LIVES
305
01:33:03,878 --> 01:33:12,253
AND DREAMS...
NOT LEAST THOSE OF AN ASCENDANT
BALLERINA FROM KYIV, POLINA
CHEPYK, AGE 17.
306
01:33:12,320 --> 01:33:15,890
YOU WANTED TO BE A BALLERINA FOR
YEARS AND YEARS.
WHAT WAS IT LIKE WHEN SUDDENLY
YOU COULDN'T-- COULDN'T GO TO
307
01:33:15,957 --> 01:33:21,896
SCHOOL, COULDN'T DANCE?
>> Polina Chepyk: I WAS SHOCKED.
AND I'M LIKE, "OH MY GOD."
AND FIRST ABOUT WHAT I'M
308
01:33:21,963 --> 01:33:26,934
THINKING THAT I LEFT MY POINTE
SHOES IN COLLEGE.
IT WAS MY FIR--
>> Wertheim: THAT WAS YOUR FIRST
309
01:33:27,001 --> 01:33:29,070
THOUGHT?
>> Chepyk: YES.
>> Wertheim: YOU LEFT YOUR
POINTE SHOES AT SCHOOL.
310
01:33:29,136 --> 01:33:36,577
>> Chepyk: YES.
I LEFT EVERYTHING, ACTUALLY.
>> Wertheim: WAR DIDN'T STOP HER
IN HER FOOTSTEPS.
311
01:33:36,644 --> 01:33:44,151
SHE RESUMED DANCING AT HOME,
USING WHATEVER SHE COULD AS A
BARRE.
BUT AFTER A FEW DAYS, HER
312
01:33:44,218 --> 01:33:51,892
PARENTS, BOTH FORMER DANCERS,
FOCUSED ON GETTING POLINA OUT.
THEY CALLED ON A FAMOUSLY WELL-
CONNECTED FIGURE IN THE TIGHT-
313
01:33:51,959 --> 01:33:57,898
KNIT BALLET COMMUNITY-- NEW
JERSEY-BASED LARISSA SAVELIEV.
YOU'RE GETTING THIS BARRAGE OF
EMAILS FROM-- FROM PARENTS, AND
314
01:33:57,965 --> 01:34:03,070
FROM DANCERS.
WHAT-- WHAT ARE THEY-- WHAT ARE
TELLING YOU?
WHAT ARE THEY ASKING YOU?
315
01:34:03,137 --> 01:34:10,177
>> Larissa Saveliev: OH, "PLEASE
HELP, GET US OUT OF HERE."
THEY'RE WILLING TO GIVE UP
EVERYTHING ELSE, BUT THEY HAVE
316
01:34:10,244 --> 01:34:15,716
TO DANCE.
AND THE PARENTS WERE-- YOU KNOW,
"IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT WE DO,
THEY HAVE TO DANCE."
317
01:34:15,783 --> 01:34:20,654
>> Wertheim: THIS WAS THEIR--
THEIR LIFE-LINE, ALMOST.
>> Saveliev: THIS IS IT.
THEY JUST-- THEY-- THEY COULD
318
01:34:20,721 --> 01:34:29,864
NOT IMAGINE NOT DANCE.
>> Wertheim: IN THE 1990s, SHE
FOUNDED YOUTH AMERICA GRAND
PRIX, A BALLET COMPETITION AND
319
01:34:29,930 --> 01:34:36,637
SCHOLARSHIP PROGRAM, PAIRING
ASPIRING DANCERS WITH BALLET
SCHOOLS WORLDWIDE.
>> Saveliev: WELL, NO, THEY WANT
320
01:34:36,704 --> 01:34:41,075
TO SEE HER FOR FULL YEAR, BUT
YOU HAVE TO COME FOR THE SUMMER
FIRST.
>> Wertheim: NOW, IN A
321
01:34:41,142 --> 01:34:51,152
HUMANITARIAN CRISIS, SHE, AND
THE INTERNATIONAL BALLET
COMMUNITY, SCRAMBLED TO ACTION.
SAVELIEV TAPPED HER VAST
322
01:34:51,218 --> 01:34:56,257
NETWORK, RELOCATING MORE THAN A
HUNDRED YOUNG UKRAINIAN DANCERS
TO NEW SCHOOLS AND HOST
FAMILIES.
323
01:34:56,323 --> 01:35:06,667
>> Saveliev: WE GIVE EACH CHILD
A NUMBER, JUST TO MOVE FASTER.
AND WE SAY, "OKAY, NUMBER 55 IS,
LIKE-- JUST GET A SPOT IN
324
01:35:06,734 --> 01:35:11,105
STUTTGART, OKAY.
OKAY, NUMBER 54 JUST GET A SPOT
IN-- DRESDEN."
>> Wertheim: CROSS IT OFF THE
325
01:35:11,172 --> 01:35:14,575
LIST.
>> Saveliev: "CROSS IT OFF THE
LIST."
>> Wertheim: WHEN A SLOT OPENED
326
01:35:14,642 --> 01:35:21,849
FOR POLINA, SHE STUFFED LEOTARDS
AND TUTUS INTO A SUITCASE, ALONG
WITH A BOTTLE OF HER MOM'S
PERFUME, A REMINDER OF HOME, AND
327
01:35:21,916 --> 01:35:28,022
THEN SHE HEADED TO KYIV'S TRAIN
STATION.
>> Chepyk: AND MY PARENTS ARE IN
THE WINDOW OF TRAIN.
328
01:35:28,089 --> 01:35:34,028
THEY SAID "GOODBYE.
WE LOVE YOU.
EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE."
AND I WAS CRYING.
329
01:35:34,095 --> 01:35:40,634
AND WE WERE ALL CRYING.
I WAS THINKING, MAYBE I WOULD
NEED TO TAKE MY SUITCASE AND GO
BACK TO MY FAMILY, BECAUSE MY
330
01:35:40,701 --> 01:35:48,209
HEART WAS BROKEN, REALLY.
>> Wertheim: HOW DID YOU
OVERCOME THAT?
WHAT-- WHAT-- WHAT MADE YOU NOT
331
01:35:48,275 --> 01:35:57,985
GET OFF THAT TRAIN?
>> Chepyk: BECAUSE IT'S OPEN
DOOR FOR ME.
IT'S-- A DOOR FOR MY DREAM.
332
01:35:58,052 --> 01:36:08,529
>> Wertheim: 17-YEAR-OLD THAT
SHE IS, POLINA DOCUMENTED THE
LONELY ODYSSEY ON TIK-TOK.
TRAINS AND BUSES, FIVE DAYS AND
333
01:36:08,596 --> 01:36:15,336
1,200 MILES, KYIV TO LVIV,
POLAND TO BERLIN.
FINALLY, TO AMSTERDAM, WHERE SHE
LANDED AT THE DUTCH NATIONAL
334
01:36:15,402 --> 01:36:20,808
BALLET ACADEMY, ONE OF THE
LEADING SCHOOLS IN THE WORLD.
WHEN YOU GOT TO THE NEW SCHOOL
AND STARTED DANCING AGAIN, HOW
335
01:36:20,875 --> 01:36:30,718
DID THAT FEEL?
>> Chepyk: OH, I WAS VERY HAPPY.
YES.
I-- MY MIND-- CHANGED.
336
01:36:30,784 --> 01:36:40,027
BECAUSE I WAS THINKING ABOUT MY
PARENTS ALL THE TIME, FOR MY
FAMILY, FOR MY SISTER.
AND WHEN I GO TO THE BALLET
337
01:36:40,094 --> 01:36:44,732
CLASS, THE-- THIS WORLD CHANGED
FOR ME.
I HAVE ANOTHER WORLD-- A WORLD
OF BALLET.
338
01:36:44,798 --> 01:36:49,336
>> Wertheim: HER ADJUSTMENT WAS
MADE EASIER WHEN SHE FOUND OTHER
UKRAINIAN DANCE STUDENTS, WHO,
THANKS TO LARISSA SAVELIEV, ALSO
339
01:36:49,403 --> 01:36:59,513
FOUND SAFE HARBOR IN AMSTERDAM.
POLINA FELL INTO A ROUTINE
IMMEDIATELY.
ON THE CUSP OF A PROFESSIONAL
340
01:36:59,580 --> 01:37:08,856
CAREER, SHE PREPARED FOR FINAL
EXAMS.
SHE WAS JITTERY BEFOREHAND.
SHE EMERGED RELIEVED,
341
01:37:08,923 --> 01:37:17,665
TRIUMPHANT, AND EAGER TO REPORT
BACK TO MOM.
WHAT DID YOU TELL HER?
>> Chepyk: THAT, I WAS NERVOUS,
342
01:37:17,731 --> 01:37:25,372
BUT WHEN I START, YOU KNOW, I DO
EVERYTHING RIGHT.
>> Wertheim: IF THE WAR HAS MADE
REFUGEES OUT OF SOME UKRAINIAN
343
01:37:25,439 --> 01:37:34,949
DANCERS, IT'S MADE SOLDIERS OUT
OF OTHERS.
WHEN THE WAR BEGAN, OLEKSII
POTIOMKIN, A PRINCIPAL DANCER
344
01:37:35,015 --> 01:37:40,955
WITH UKRAINE'S NATIONAL BALLET,
TURNED IN HIS TIGHTS FOR
MILITARY FATIGUES.
HERE HE IS IN DOWNTOWN LVIV LAST
345
01:37:41,021 --> 01:37:48,128
WEEK, HAVING JUST RETURNED FROM
DUTY AS A MEDIC.
WHAT WAS YOUR LIFE LIKE BEFORE
THE WAR?
346
01:37:48,195 --> 01:37:55,669
>> Oleksii Potiomkin: BEFORE WAR
I MUST-- I PREPARING-- NEW
PREMIERE IN BALLET-- UKRAINIAN
BALLET.
347
01:37:55,736 --> 01:37:59,974
YOU KNOW, LIKE, REAL, NORMAL
LIFE.
AND JUST, ONE MOMENT, IT'S,
LIKE, CHANGES.
348
01:38:00,040 --> 01:38:08,582
BUT I NEED TO DO SOMETHING.
I CAN'T SIT JUST AT HOME IN
SHELTER AND WATCH TV, HOW MY
FRIENDS DIE, AND-- EVERYONE DO
349
01:38:08,649 --> 01:38:16,257
SOMETHING.
>> Wertheim: WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN
THESE LAST FEW MONTHS?
>> Potiomkin: EVERY DAY, IT'S
350
01:38:16,323 --> 01:38:28,235
REALLY SCARY.
THEY CRUSHED EVERYTHING.
DESTROYED HOUSES OF CIVILIANS
PEOPLE.
351
01:38:28,302 --> 01:38:31,739
IT'S BROTHERS, SONS, FATHERS,
SISTERS.
>> Wertheim: WHILE HE SAYS HE'S
SHAKEN BY WHAT HE'S SEEN UNFOLD
352
01:38:31,805 --> 01:38:40,247
ON THE BATTLEFIELD, HE'S ALSO
APPALLED BY A WAR TAKING PLACE
ON ANOTHER FRONT-- AT THE
BOLSHOI.
353
01:38:40,314 --> 01:38:46,153
>> Potiomkin: LIKE BOLSHOI NOW,
IT'S TOXIC THEATER.
NOBODY WANT TO WORK WITH YOU.
>> Wertheim: YOU SAID TOXIC?
354
01:38:46,220 --> 01:38:52,226
>> Potiomkin: TOXIC, YES.
IN RUSSIA ART, IT'S POLITICS.
IT'S-- RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT USE--
USE IT-- BALLET-- IT'S LIKE
355
01:38:52,293 --> 01:39:00,934
WEAPON.
>> Wertheim: THE WEAPON WAS
DEPLOYED AT THE BOLSHOI AS
RECENTLY AS LAST MONTH, WHEN THE
356
01:39:01,001 --> 01:39:08,742
THEATER REVIVED A PRODUCTION OF
"SPARTACUS" IN SUPPORT OF THE
RUSSIAN MILITARY INVASION,
UNNERVING MANY IN THE DANCE
357
01:39:08,809 --> 01:39:13,814
WORLD, INCLUDING LONG-TIME HEAD
OF THE DUTCH NATIONAL BALLET,
TED BRANDSEN.
>> Ted Brandsen: WELL, IT WAS A
358
01:39:13,881 --> 01:39:24,291
VERY CLEAR STATEMENT THAT, "WE
HAVE TO SUPPORT OUR BOYS WHO ARE
ON A MILITARY OPERATION TO SAVE
UKRAINE FROM THE FASCISTS."
359
01:39:24,358 --> 01:39:30,331
WHICH IS A TOTALLY RIDICULOUS
CONCEPT, OF COURSE.
>> Wertheim: THIS ALLEGORY,
SPARTACUS, ABOUT THE-- THE SLAVE
360
01:39:30,397 --> 01:39:34,101
REVOLT, IS-- IS SOMEHOW BEING
CO-OPTED BY--
>> Brandsen: YEAH.
>> Wertheim: --THE-- THE
361
01:39:34,168 --> 01:39:40,207
AGGRESSIVE SUPERPOWER?
>> Brandsen: ABSOLUTELY.
NOW, IT'S NOT-- IT'S NOT-- IT'S
NOT FOR NOTHING THAT THIS BECAME
362
01:39:40,274 --> 01:39:47,047
ONE OF THE SIGNATURE BALLETS OF
THE SOVIET EMP-- OF THE SOVIET
TIME.
>> Wertheim: ABROAD, THE BALLET
363
01:39:47,114 --> 01:39:55,456
COMMUNITY HAS STAGED BENEFIT
CONCERTS TO RAISE FUNDS FOR
UKRAINE, WHILE RUSSIA'S FAMED
COMPANIES, THE BOLSHOI AND ST.
364
01:39:55,522 --> 01:40:00,994
PETERSBURG'S MARIINSKY, HAVE HAD
THEIR TOURING DATES CANCELED.
>> Ratmansky: I THINK YOU NEED
TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE ACTIVE
365
01:40:01,061 --> 01:40:06,700
WITH YOUR ARMS.
>> Wertheim: WITH THE IRON
CURTAIN DOWN, ARTISTS HAVE TO
PICK A SIDE.
366
01:40:06,767 --> 01:40:13,006
ALEXEI RATMANSKY LEFT MOSCOW FOR
AMERICAN BALLET THEATRE IN NEW
YORK, WHERE HE IS ARTIST-IN-
RESIDENCE, AND WHERE WE SPOKE
367
01:40:13,073 --> 01:40:21,749
WITH HIM REMOTELY LAST WEEK.
IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU-- YOU DON'T
BUY THIS IDEA THAT, LOOK,
INDIVIDUALS SHOULDN'T BEAR THE
368
01:40:21,815 --> 01:40:24,618
RESPONSIBILITY FOR-- FOR THE
ACTS OF THE STATE?
THAT AR-- ARTISTS SHOULD JUST BE
ARTISTS.
369
01:40:24,685 --> 01:40:30,691
>> Ratmansky: NO, I DON'T THINK
THE ARTISTS ARE SEPARATE FROM
POLITICS.
AND BESIDES, IT'S NOT-- FOR ME,
370
01:40:30,758 --> 01:40:36,997
IT'S NOT POLITICS.
IT'S ABOUT HUMANITY.
IT'S ABOUT RESPONDING TO WAR
CRIMES, RESPONDING TO THE CRIMES
371
01:40:37,064 --> 01:40:45,005
OF YOUR GOVERNMENT, OF YOUR
PRESIDENT.
IT JUST MADE THINGS CLEAR WHICH
THINGS ARE IMPORTANT AND WHICH
372
01:40:45,072 --> 01:40:51,745
AREN'T.
AND YOU MAKE A CHOICE.
YOU DECIDE WHERE YOU WANT TO
BELONG.
373
01:40:51,812 --> 01:40:59,520
>> Wertheim: FOR OLGA SMIRNOVA,
THAT CHOICE CAME TOGETHER IN A
MATTER OF DAYS, AFTER SHE
CONDEMNED THE WAR.
374
01:40:59,586 --> 01:41:06,460
SHE LEFT RUSSIA, AND LANDED ON
HER FEET AT THE DUTCH NATIONAL
OPERA IN AMSTERDAM, JUST AROUND
THE CORNER FROM POLINA'S SCHOOL.
375
01:41:06,527 --> 01:41:21,041
IT MUST HAVE BEEN INCREDIBLY
DIFFICULT TO LEAVE THE BOLSHOI.
>> Smirnova: IF YOU MAKE A
CHOICE, YOU HAVE CONSEQUENCES.
376
01:41:21,108 --> 01:41:30,784
BUT, THIS IS HOW IT WORKS.
I HAD TO LEAVE EVERYTHING.
LIKE, MY HOME, MY THEATER, MY
REPERTOIRE, MY PARTNERS, MY
377
01:41:30,851 --> 01:41:40,360
PARENTS, SISTER, BROTHER,
EVERYTHING.
BUT I DON'T HAVE REGRETS.
>> Wertheim: NO REGRETS.
378
01:41:40,427 --> 01:41:50,671
>> Smirnova: NO.
BECAUSE AT LEAST I CAN BE HONEST
WITH MYSELF.
( TICKING )
379
01:41:53,106 --> 01:41:57,211
>> Stahl: THE BOMBSHELL OF A
LEAK FROM THE SUPREME COURT--
THE DRAFT DECISION ON ABORTION
RIGHTS-- SHOCKED MUCH OF THE
380
01:41:57,277 --> 01:42:03,183
COUNTRY.
IT SHOULDN'T HAVE.
THE CRUCIAL VOTE ON THE FUTURE
OF "ROE V. WADE" WASN'T CAST IN
381
01:42:03,250 --> 01:42:11,758
A SUPREME COURT CONFERENCE ROOM
IN 2022.
IT WAS CAST AT THE POLLS IN
2016, WHEN DONALD TRUMP WAS
382
01:42:11,825 --> 01:42:22,002
ELECTED PRESIDENT.
SHORTLY AFTER ELECTION DAY, ON
THIS BROADCAST, PRESIDENT-ELECT
TRUMP TOLD US HE WOULD APPOINT
383
01:42:22,069 --> 01:42:31,078
WHAT HE CALLED "PRO-LIFE"
JUDGES, A PROMISE HE MADE
REPEATEDLY DURING HIS CAMPAIGN.
IT TOOK MR. TRUMP ONE TERM TO
384
01:42:31,144 --> 01:42:38,085
KEEP HIS PROMISE AND ADD THOSE
THREE VOTES TO THE COURT.
NOT EVERY POLITICAL PROMISE IS
JUST RHETORIC.
385
01:42:38,151 --> 01:42:43,090
I'M LESLEY STAHL.
HAPPY MOTHERS' DAY.
WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK WITH
ANOTHER EDITION OF "60 MINUTES."
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01:42:43,156 --> 01:42:44,825
( TICKING )