1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,380
and FORD.
We go further, so you can.
>> NEARLY EVERYONE IN UKRAINE IS
A WITNESS...
2
00:00:13,446 --> 00:00:19,386
>> THIS IS ACTUALLY THE LOCATION
WHERE THE WOMAN WAS KILLED.
>> ...WHICH IS HELPING A DATA
MINING OPERATION IN EUROPE
3
00:00:19,452 --> 00:00:25,492
EXPOSE APPARENT RUSSIAN WAR
CRIMES.
>> I FEEL IT'S ALMOST MY DUTY
THAT, WHEN WE'RE FACED WITH ALL
4
00:00:25,558 --> 00:00:29,696
THIS INFORMATION SHOWING
TERRIBLE THINGS THAT ARE
HAPPENING, IT'S TO PUT IT OUT
THERE.
5
00:00:29,763 --> 00:00:37,404
IT DOES INVOLVE RISK.
BUT THEN, DEFENDING LIBERTY,
HUMAN RIGHTS, DEMOCRACY,
INVOLVES TAKING RISKS.
6
00:00:37,470 --> 00:00:43,443
IT'S WHEN WE STOP TAKING RISKS
AND WE LET THE FEAR TAKE HOLD
THAT WE SEE DEMOCRACY DIE.
( TICKING )
7
00:00:45,311 --> 00:00:49,516
>> OKAY, WE'RE GOING TO GATHER
IN HERE, MAINLY.
>> THE MILLERS ARE A LARGE
FAMILY THAT ENJOY GETTING
8
00:00:49,582 --> 00:00:57,724
TOGETHER.
THEY PURCHASED THIS HISTORIC
HOUSE IN SOUTHERN VIRGINIA, NEAR
WHERE THEY GREW UP, TO HAVE A
9
00:00:57,791 --> 00:01:04,998
PLACE FOR FAMILY CELEBRATIONS.
>> THIS IS AN ORIGINAL ROOM FROM
THE 1800s.
>> BUT NO ONE COULD HAVE
10
00:01:05,064 --> 00:01:10,103
IMAGINED HOW THE HISTORY OF THE
HOME, AND ITS GROUNDS, WOULD
CHANGE EVERYTHING THEY THOUGHT
THEY KNEW ABOUT THEIR FAMILY'S
11
00:01:10,170 --> 00:01:15,442
HISTORY.
>> IT'S LIKE A FULL CIRCLE.
LIKE IT WAS MEANT TO HAPPEN.
TO ME, IT'S LIKE IT WAS MEANT TO
12
00:01:15,508 --> 00:01:20,880
HAPPEN.
>> THIS IS GOD.
THIS IS WHERE WE ARE SUPPOSED TO
BE.
13
00:01:20,947 --> 00:01:21,848
( TICKING )
14
00:01:24,350 --> 00:01:29,255
>> I'M LESLEY STAHL.
>> I'M BILL WHITAKER.
>> I'M ANDERSON COOPER.
>> I'M SHARYN ALFONSI.
15
00:01:29,322 --> 00:01:33,760
>> I'M JON WERTHEIM.
>> I'M SCOTT PELLEY.
THOSE STORIES AND MORE, TONIGHT,
ON "60 MINUTES."
16
00:01:33,827 --> 00:01:40,333
( TICKING )
17
00:01:42,101 --> 00:01:49,809
>> Scott Pelley: THE WAR CRIMES
IN UKRAINE ARE AMONG THE WORST
OF THE 21st CENTURY, BUT THEY
ARE JUST THE LATEST IN A HISTORY
18
00:01:49,876 --> 00:01:58,017
OF ASSASSINATIONS AND MASS
MURDER AT THE HANDS OF RUSSIAN
PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN.
WE KNOW THIS, IN LARGE PART,
19
00:01:58,084 --> 00:02:06,092
THANKS TO A TEAM OF ONLINE DATA
DETECTIVES THAT CALLS ITSELF
BELLINGCAT.
SINCE 2014, BELLINGCAT
20
00:02:06,159 --> 00:02:13,766
INVESTIGATIONS HAVE EXPOSED
RUSSIA'S UNDERCOVER HIT SQUADS
AND TIED RUSSIAN TROOPS TO
ATROCITIES.
21
00:02:13,833 --> 00:02:19,772
SUFFICE TO SAY, THE RUSSIAN
GOVERNMENT DENIES EVERYTHING YOU
ARE ABOUT TO SEE IN THIS STORY.
BUT, THAT'S EXACTLY WHERE
22
00:02:19,839 --> 00:02:30,049
BELLINGCAT COMES IN.
BELLINGCAT'S FOUNDER, ELIOT
HIGGINS, HAS CREATED A METHOD OF
MINING ONLINE DATA AND SOCIAL
23
00:02:30,116 --> 00:02:36,923
MEDIA TO PUT THE LIE TO
DISINFORMATION AND UNMASK
VLADIMIR PUTIN.
>> Eliot Higgins: I FEEL IT'S
24
00:02:36,990 --> 00:02:41,628
ALMOST MY DUTY, THAT WHEN WE'RE
FACED WITH ALL THIS INFORMATION
SHOWING TERRIBLE THINGS THAT ARE
HAPPENING, IT'S TO PUT IT OUT
25
00:02:41,694 --> 00:02:48,935
THERE.
IT DOES INVOLVE RISK.
BUT THEN, DEFENDING LIBERTY,
HUMAN RIGHTS, DEMOCRACY,
26
00:02:49,002 --> 00:02:54,240
INVOLVES TAKING RISKS.
IT'S WHEN WE STOP TAKING RISKS
AND WE LET THE FEAR TAKE HOLD
THAT WE SEE DEMOCRACY DIE.
27
00:02:54,307 --> 00:03:01,848
WE CAN SEE A RUSSIAN ARMORED CAR
COLUMN...
>> Pelley: WE MET ELIOT HIGGINS
LAST MONTH IN LONDON, AS
28
00:03:01,915 --> 00:03:12,492
BELLINGCAT WAS BUILDING A
DATABASE OF SOCIAL MEDIA
EXPOSING APPARENT WAR CRIMES IN
UKRAINE.
29
00:03:12,559 --> 00:03:17,864
EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS OF ATTACKS
ON NEIGHBORHOODS, ASSAULTS ON
HOSPITALS, AND MURDERS OF
CIVILIANS ARE BEING COLLECTED
30
00:03:17,931 --> 00:03:22,635
AND PUBLISHED ON BELLINGCAT'S
WEBSITE FOR ALL TO SEE.
>> Higgins: THIS IS ACTUALLY THE
LOCATION WHERE THE WOMAN WAS
31
00:03:22,702 --> 00:03:30,176
KILLED.
>> Pelley: NEARLY EVERYONE IN
UKRAINE IS A WITNESS WITH A
CAMERA.
32
00:03:30,243 --> 00:03:37,850
BELLINGCAT IS COMBINING TENS OF
THOUSANDS OF SOCIAL MEDIA POSTS
TO MAKE THEM SEARCHABLE BY PLACE
AND TIME.
33
00:03:37,917 --> 00:03:43,590
>> Higgins: AND WE LOOK AT AS
MANY SOURCES AS POSSIBLE, AND
USE THOSE SOURCES TO BUILD A
PICTURE OF WHAT HAPPENED.
34
00:03:43,656 --> 00:03:49,462
VIDEOS, PHOTOGRAPHS, SATELLITE
IMAGERY.
THEN WE LOOK AT THE WITNESS
STATEMENTS AND THE VARIOUS
35
00:03:49,529 --> 00:03:55,735
ALLEGATIONS MADE BY EITHER SIDE.
>> Pelley: LOCATIONS AND TIMES
ARE CORROBORATED WITH
INDEPENDENT SOURCES, INCLUDING
36
00:03:55,802 --> 00:04:02,408
SATELLITE IMAGES AND GOOGLE
STREET VIEW.
THE GOAL IS TO PROVIDE VERIFIED
EVIDENCE FOR FUTURE CRIMINAL
37
00:04:02,475 --> 00:04:07,146
TRIALS.
>> Higgins: AND IT ALSO MEANS
THAT WE'RE COLLECTING AN ARCHIVE
OF MATERIAL THAT, FOR FUTURE
38
00:04:07,213 --> 00:04:12,452
GENERATIONS, THEY CAN GO BACK
AND LOOK AT THIS MATERIAL.
I MEAN, IT'S OFTEN SAID THAT,
YOU KNOW, HISTORY IS WRITTEN BY
39
00:04:12,518 --> 00:04:18,191
THE VICTORS.
BUT IT'S BEING WRITTEN NOW.
AND IT'S BEING PRESERVED NOW.
>> Pelley: UKRAINE IS THE
40
00:04:18,257 --> 00:04:25,798
BIGGEST PROJECT IN BELLINGCAT'S
SHORT CAREER.
HIGGINS STARTED BELLINGCAT IN
2014 AS, SORT OF, AN ACCIDENTAL
41
00:04:25,865 --> 00:04:30,436
ACTIVIST.
>> Higgins: I WAS NOT SOMEONE
WITH A PROFESSIONAL BACKGROUND.
I WAS DOING THIS MERELY AS A
42
00:04:30,503 --> 00:04:36,943
HOBBY.
>> Pelley: WHAT WERE YOU DOING
FOR A LIVING AT THE TIME?
>> Higgins: I WAS WORKING FOR A
43
00:04:37,010 --> 00:04:41,914
COMPANY THAT HOUSED REFUGEES IN
TE U.K.
I THEN WORKED FOR A COMPANY THAT
MANUFACTURED PIPES, AND THEN A
44
00:04:41,981 --> 00:04:48,721
COMPANY THAT MANUFACTURED
LINGERIE.
SO, I HAD A WIDE RANGE OF
EXPERIENCE, BUT NOTHING THAT WAS
45
00:04:48,788 --> 00:04:55,928
DIRECTLY RELATED TO CONFLICT.
>> Pelley: ON HIS OFF-HOURS, THE
CONFLICT IN SYRIA FASCINATED
HIM, ESPECIALLY HOW SOCIAL MEDIA
46
00:04:55,995 --> 00:05:02,468
WAS EXPOSING ATROCITIES THERE.
YOU FOUND YOUR CALLING.
>> Higgins: INDEED I DID.
>> Pelley: BUT HIS SEARCH FOR
47
00:05:02,535 --> 00:05:09,709
THE TRUTH BEGAN WITH A FAIRY
TALE.
WHERE DOES THE NAME COME FROM?
>> Higgins: SO, BELLINGCAT COMES
48
00:05:09,776 --> 00:05:14,180
FROM THE NAME OF A FABLE,
BELLING THE CAT.
AND IT'S ABOUT A GROUP OF MICE
WHO ARE VERY SCARED OF A VERY
49
00:05:14,247 --> 00:05:19,986
LARGE CAT.
SO, THEY HAVE A MEETING, AND
THEY DECIDE TO PUT A BELL ON THE
CAT'S NECK.
50
00:05:20,053 --> 00:05:25,058
BUT THEN THEY REALIZE THAT NO
ONE KNOWS HOW TO DO IT, AND NO
ONE IS WILLING TO VOLUNTEER TO
DO IT.
51
00:05:25,124 --> 00:05:31,998
SO, WHAT WE'RE TEACHING PEOPLE
TO DO IS BELL THE CAT.
>> Pelley: HIGGINS BELLED HIS
FIRST PREDATOR IN 2014, WHEN
52
00:05:32,065 --> 00:05:40,440
RUSSIA WENT TO WAR IN EASTERN
UKRAINE.
MALAYSIAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 17 WAS
HIGH OVER UKRAINE ON ITS WAY TO
53
00:05:40,506 --> 00:05:49,982
ASIA WHEN A MISSILE BROUGHT IT
DOWN.
298 WERE KILLED.
EVERYONE DENIED RESPONSIBILITY.
54
00:05:50,049 --> 00:05:59,625
BUT, HIGGINS NOTICED, IN THE
HOURS BEFORE THE SHOOT-DOWN,
THERE WERE MANY SOCIAL MEDIA
POSTS FROM BYSTANDERS WHO SAW A
55
00:05:59,692 --> 00:06:04,097
MISSILE LAUNCHER ON A FLATBED
TRAILER TRAVELING IN EASTERN
UKRAINE.
>> Higgins: WE STARTED
56
00:06:04,163 --> 00:06:08,401
DISCOVERING SOCIAL MEDIA POSTS
OF PEOPLE WHO HAD SEEN THE
MISSILE LAUNCHER BEING
TRANSPORTED, AND WE ALSO HAD
57
00:06:08,468 --> 00:06:13,272
SOCIAL MEDIA POSTS FROM PEOPLE
WHO SAID THERE'S A ROCKET THAT'S
JUST BEEN SHOT UP FROM THIS
DIRECTION.
58
00:06:13,339 --> 00:06:19,512
AND WE COULD ACTUALLY USE THEIR
SOCIAL MEDIA PROFILES TO FIGURE
OUT WHERE THEY LIVED.
>> Pelley: OTHER POSTS WERE
59
00:06:19,579 --> 00:06:29,622
WRITTEN BY RUSSIAN SOLDIERS
HOMESICK FOR FAMILY.
HIGGINS FOUND CLUES IN EACH
IMAGE-- BILLBOARDS, BUILDINGS,
60
00:06:29,689 --> 00:06:37,497
ROAD SIGNS-- THAT LET HIM FIX
THE LOCATION AND TIME OF EACH
POST.
WHEN HE ARRANGED ALL OF THE
61
00:06:37,563 --> 00:06:44,036
SOCIAL MEDIA INTO A TIMELINE, HE
COULD RUN THE CONVOY BACKWARD TO
ITS STARTING POINT.
>> Higgins: USING ALL THOSE
62
00:06:44,103 --> 00:06:49,142
VIDEOS, WE WERE ABLE TO TRACE IT
ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE MILITARY
BRIGADE IT CAME FROM, THE 53rd
AIR DEFENSE BRIGADE.
63
00:06:49,208 --> 00:06:54,514
>> Pelley: IN RUSSIA.
>> Higgins: IN RUSSIA.
AND WE USED THEIR SOCIAL MEDIA
PROFILES-- THE SOLDIERS, THEIR
64
00:06:54,580 --> 00:07:02,121
FAMILY MEMBERS, AND EVERYONE
AROUND THEM-- TO RECONSTRUCT
BASICALLY THEIR NETWORK ONLINE,
WHICH MEANT WE COULD GET THEIR
65
00:07:02,188 --> 00:07:06,425
NAMES, THEIR RANKS, THEIR
PHOTOGRAPHS, SEE WHO WAS IN THAT
CONVOY AND WHO TRAVELED TO THE
BORDER.
66
00:07:06,492 --> 00:07:14,133
SO, THAT ALLOWED US TO PROVE
THAT RUSSIA PROVIDED THE MISSILE
LAUNCHER THAT SHOT DOWN MH-17.
>> Pelley: BELLINGCAT PUBLISHED
67
00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:20,106
ITS FINDINGS, AND RUSSIA IMPOSED
A NEW LAW.
>> Christo Grozev: THE RUSSIAN
GOVERNMENT PASSED A SPECIFIC LAW
68
00:07:20,173 --> 00:07:28,381
BANNING SOLDIERS FROM CARRYING
MOBILE DEVICES DURING
HOSTILITIES, WHICH IS DUBBED IN
RUSSIA "THE BELLINGCAT LAW."
69
00:07:28,447 --> 00:07:34,420
>> Pelley: CHRISTO GROZEV IS
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF
BELLINGCAT, LEADING ITS 30
FULL-TIME RESEARCHERS.
70
00:07:34,487 --> 00:07:42,195
HIS PERSONAL FOCUS HAS BEEN ON
RUSSIAN POLITICAL
ASSASSINATIONS.
WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED ABOUT HOW
71
00:07:42,261 --> 00:07:50,102
VLADIMIR PUTIN OPERATES?
>> Grozev: WHAT WE HAVE FOUND
OUT IS THAT NONE OF THESE CRIMES
COULD HAVE BEEN PERPETRATED
72
00:07:50,169 --> 00:07:56,108
WITHOUT VLADIMIR PUTIN BEING
"IN THE KNOW," AND NOT ONLY
AWARE, BUT APPROVING OF ALL OF
THESE CRIMES.
73
00:07:56,175 --> 00:08:02,181
SO, IN A NUTSHELL, WHAT WE FOUND
OUT WAS THAT PUTIN IS OPERATING
AN INDUSTRIAL-SCALE
ASSASSINATION PROGRAM ON HIS OWN
74
00:08:02,248 --> 00:08:10,489
PEOPLE.
>> Pelley: BELLINGCAT'S NEXT BIG
PROJECT, THE RUSSIAN
ASSASSINATION PROGRAM, STARTED
75
00:08:10,556 --> 00:08:18,497
IN 2018 AFTER A RUSSIAN DEFECTOR
AND HIS DAUGHTER, LIVING IN
BRITAIN, WERE POISONED WITH A
MILITARY-GRADE NERVE AGENT.
76
00:08:18,564 --> 00:08:26,172
THE BRITISH HAD PASSPORT PHOTOS
AND FALSE NAMES OF TWO SUSPECTS,
BUT NOTHING ELSE.
GROZEV KNEW THAT RUSSIA'S
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00:08:26,239 --> 00:08:34,513
GOVERNMENT AND COMMERCIAL
RECORDS ARE FOR SALE ON AN
ONLINE BLACK MARKET, SO, WITH
THE FAKE NAMES, HE BOUGHT THE
78
00:08:34,580 --> 00:08:39,685
SUSPECT'S PASSPORT RECORDS.
THE PASSPORT NUMBERS ON THE TWO
PASSPORTS WERE IDENTICAL, EXCEPT
FOR THE LAST DIGIT?
79
00:08:39,752 --> 00:08:43,155
>> Grozev: THE LAST DIGIT,
EXACTLY.
>> Pelley: SO, THEY WERE CLEARLY
MADE ONE AFTER THE OTHER?
80
00:08:43,222 --> 00:08:52,531
>> Grozev: EXACTLY.
>> Pelley: SUSPICIOUS, CHRISTO
GROZEV STARTED DATA MINING.
BASED ON OFFICIAL RECORDS, IT
81
00:08:52,598 --> 00:09:02,108
SEEMED AS THOUGH BOTH MEN WERE
BORN AT THE AGE OF 32.
AND, THERE WAS AN UNUSUAL STAMP
ON THE PASSPORT DOCUMENTS.
82
00:09:02,174 --> 00:09:08,247
>> Grozev: THERE WAS A BIG BLACK
STAMP IN THE CORNER OF THEIR
FILE WHICH SAID, "DO NOT PROVIDE
INFORMATION ON THIS PERSON.
83
00:09:08,314 --> 00:09:14,453
IN CASE OF A QUERY, CALL THIS
NUMBER."
AND, SURE ENOUGH, WE CALLED THAT
NUMBER, AND IT WAS THE MINISTRY
84
00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:22,228
OF DEFENSE.
>> Pelley: WHEN THE MINISTRY OF
DEFENSE ANSWERED, GROZEV KNEW
THE WOULD-BE ASSASSINS WERE
85
00:09:22,295 --> 00:09:30,569
MILITARY INTELLIGENCE AGENTS.
TO MATCH THEIR FACES TO THEIR
TRUE IDENTITIES, HE SPENT WEEKS
COMBING YEARBOOKS AND
86
00:09:30,636 --> 00:09:37,176
PHOTOGRAPHS FROM RUSSIAN
MILITARY ACADEMIES.
>> Grozev: THE END RESULT WAS
THAT WE WERE ABLE NOT ONLY TO
87
00:09:37,243 --> 00:09:44,183
IDENTIFY THE REAL IDENTITIES AND
THE AFFILIATION TO THE MILITARY
INTELLIGENCE-- WE WERE ABLE TO
FIND A THIRD AND A FOURTH MEMBER
88
00:09:44,250 --> 00:09:50,856
OF THE SAME KILL TEAM, THAT THE
BRITISH DID NOT EVEN KNOW ABOUT.
>> Pelley: OVER MONTHS, GROZEV
UNCOVERED A NETWORK OF RUSSIAN
89
00:09:50,923 --> 00:09:58,564
HITMEN, WORKING THROUGHOUT
EUROPE, ARMED WITH NERVE AGENT
FROM A GOVERNMENT LAB.
HE BOUGHT AIRLINE MANIFESTS AND
90
00:09:58,631 --> 00:10:07,106
FOUND SOME OF THE ASSASSINS'
TRAVEL OVERLAPPED THE CAMPAIGN
STOPS OF ALEXEI NAVALNY, THE TOP
POLITICAL OPPONENT OF VLADIMIR
91
00:10:07,173 --> 00:10:16,248
PUTIN.
>> Grozev: AND WE FOUND A TOTAL
OF 66 OVERLAPS, WAY BEYOND ANY
STATISTICAL POSSIBILITY FOR A
92
00:10:16,315 --> 00:10:22,054
COINCIDENCE.
>> Pelley: THEY'D BEEN SHADOWING
HIM FOR MONTHS, YEARS?
>> Grozev: THEY'D BEEN SHADOWING
93
00:10:22,121 --> 00:10:29,095
HIM FOR FOUR YEARS.
THEY STARTED SHADOWING HIM THE
MOMENT HE ANNOUNCED HIS
PRESIDENTIAL ASPIRATIONS IN
94
00:10:29,161 --> 00:10:34,467
2017, APPARENTLY BEING ON
STANDBY FOR A POSSIBLE
ASSASSINATION WHENEVER THEY
WOULD GET THE SIGNAL.
95
00:10:34,533 --> 00:10:42,441
>> Pelley: A SIGNAL CAME IN
2020.
ON A CAMPAIGN TRIP, NAVALNY WAS
POISONED WITH THAT SAME NERVE
96
00:10:42,508 --> 00:10:50,249
AGENT.
HE RECOVERED IN A GERMAN
HOSPITAL, RETURNED TO OPPOSE
PUTIN, AND IS NOW IN PRISON.
97
00:10:50,316 --> 00:10:58,557
BELLINGCAT'S INVESTIGATION FOUND
ASSASSINS ALSO TAILED OTHER
PUTIN OPPONENTS.
>> Grozev: AND WE FOUND, FOR
98
00:10:58,624 --> 00:11:06,365
EXAMPLE, THAT THE TEAM THAT HAD
POISONED NAVALNY HAD TAILED, AT
A MINIMUM, 12 OTHER OPPOSITION
FIGURES, THREE OF WHOM HAD BEEN
99
00:11:06,432 --> 00:11:13,406
KILLED, IN FACT.
POISONED.
>> Pelley: INVESTIGATIONS LIKE
THAT ARE PUBLISHED ON
100
00:11:13,472 --> 00:11:20,312
BELLINGCAT'S WEBSITE, WHICH IS
BLOCKED IN RUSSIA.
BELLINGCAT IS A NON-PROFIT
FOUNDATION WHICH HAS TRAINED
101
00:11:20,379 --> 00:11:30,623
MORE THAN 4,000 JOURNALISTS AND
WAR CRIME INVESTIGATORS IN ITS
TECHNIQUES OF GEOLOCATION,
VERIFICATION, AND DATA MINING.
102
00:11:30,689 --> 00:11:35,161
>> Alexa Koenig: WE'RE HEADED
INTO AN ENTIRELY NEW ERA OF
HUMAN RIGHTS INVESTIGATIONS, AND
WAR CRIMES INVESTIGATIONS, MORE
103
00:11:35,227 --> 00:11:42,635
GENERALLY.
>> Pelley: BELLINGCAT TRAINED
ALEXA KOENIG'S TEAM AT THE
UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA,
104
00:11:42,701 --> 00:11:52,244
BERKELEY'S HUMAN RIGHTS CENTER.
KOENIG IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
OF THE CENTER, WHICH HAS USED
BELLINGCAT'S TECHNIQUES TO
105
00:11:52,311 --> 00:11:58,350
EXPOSE ATROCITIES IN MYANMAR AND
CHEMICAL ATTACKS IN SYRIA.
>> Koenig: THEY'RE SHOWING THE
WORLD THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE
106
00:11:58,417 --> 00:12:03,089
A LARGE OUTFIT, LIKE THE "NEW
YORK TIMES" OR THE INTERNATIONAL
CRIMINAL COURT, TO PULL THESE
DISPARATE BITS OF INFORMATION
107
00:12:03,155 --> 00:12:10,696
TOGETHER, AND ACTUALLY GET
UNDERNEATH WHO'S DONE WHAT TO
WHOM AND WHEN.
>> Pelley: STILL, KOENIG SAYS,
108
00:12:10,763 --> 00:12:16,402
THIS NEW ERA IS CHALLENGED BY
THE FACT THAT ANYONE WITH AN
INTERNET CONNECTION CAN BE AN
INVESTIGATOR.
109
00:12:16,469 --> 00:12:20,473
THE PROBLEM BECOMES, HOW DO YOU
MAKE SURE THEY'RE RIGHT?
>> Koenig: THAT'S ALWAYS THE
RISK.
110
00:12:20,539 --> 00:12:26,645
AND I THINK ONE BIG CONCERN IN
THIS SPACE IS THE ETHICS OF
DOING THIS WORK, AND MAKING SURE
THAT YOU DON'T GET IT WRONG.
111
00:12:26,712 --> 00:12:34,720
>> Pelley: ALEXA KOENIG'S U.C.,
BERKELEY CENTER RECENTLY WORKED
WITH THE UNITED NATIONS TO
PUBLISH GUIDELINES FOR WITNESSES
112
00:12:34,787 --> 00:12:38,624
WHO POST EVIDENCE, AND FOR
AMATEUR INVESTIGATORS.
STANDARDS?
>> Koenig: YES.
113
00:12:38,691 --> 00:12:44,396
>> Pelley: RULES OF EVIDENCE?
>> Koenig: EXACTLY.
SO, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE BEING
REALLY INNOVATIVE AND CREATIVE
114
00:12:44,463 --> 00:12:49,802
ABOUT HOW TO USE A LOT OF
DIGITAL TOOLS AND TECHNIQUES TO
ULTIMATELY SOLVE THESE PUZZLES.
BUT THE PROBLEM IS, A LOT OF
115
00:12:49,869 --> 00:12:54,240
THEM ARE NOT TRAINED AS LEGAL
INVESTIGATORS.
THEY'RE NOT THINKING ABOUT
THINGS LIKE CHAIN OF CUSTODY,
116
00:12:54,306 --> 00:13:00,713
AND HOW DO YOU ESTABLISH THAT
SOMETHING YOU GRABBED FROM THE
INTERNET HASN'T BEEN CHANGED IN
TRANSIT, AND SHOULD ACTUALLY BE
117
00:13:00,779 --> 00:13:06,785
TRUSTED AS RELIABLE ONCE IT
REACHES A COURT OF LAW?
SO, OUR WORK IS HOPEFULLY
DESIGNED AROUND HELPING THEM DO
118
00:13:06,852 --> 00:13:13,592
THAT IN A WAY THAT MAXIMIZES
THAT VALUE FOR ACCOUNTABILITY.
>> Pelley: ULTIMATELY, WHAT IS
YOUR HOPE FOR YOUR UKRAINE
119
00:13:13,659 --> 00:13:18,764
INVESTIGATIONS?
>> Grozev: WE ALREADY HAVE BEEN
APPROACHED BY THE INTERNATIONAL
CRIMINAL COURT.
120
00:13:18,831 --> 00:13:27,006
WE'VE BEEN APPROACHED BY SEVERAL
PROSECUTION AUTHORITIES IN
EUROPE, WHO WANT TO INITIATE
THEIR OWN CASES INTO WAR CRIMES.
121
00:13:27,072 --> 00:13:35,147
AND WE NOT ONLY HOPE, BUT WE
KNOW THAT OUR DATABASE, OUR
SEARCH NOW WILL BE USED IN A
FUTURE-- LET'S CALL IT SOMETHING
122
00:13:35,214 --> 00:13:42,988
LIKE A NUREMBERG TRIAL.
>> Pelley: THERE MAY BE NO
ACCOUNTABILITY FOR RUSSIA IN A
COURTROOM, BUT THE WORK OF
123
00:13:43,055 --> 00:13:50,462
TRADITIONAL JOURNALISTS AND
BELLINGCAT'S EXPANDING DATABASE
ARE OVERWHELMING PUTIN'S
PROPAGANDA.
124
00:13:50,529 --> 00:13:56,569
YOU HAVE EXPOSED A NUMBER OF
RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE OPERATIONS,
SOME OF WHICH INVOLVE ASSASSINS.
AND, I WONDER IF YOU FEAR FOR
125
00:13:56,635 --> 00:14:03,209
YOUR OWN SAFETY?
>> Higgins: YOU HAVE TO BE
CAREFUL ABOUT YOUR OWN SECURITY.
IT'S AN EXTRA LEVEL OF PARANOIA.
126
00:14:03,275 --> 00:14:10,182
IT DOESN'T KIND OF RULE MY LIFE,
BUT YOU JUST HAVE TO BE KIND OF
HYPERSENSITIVE, SOMETIMES, TO
CERTAIN THINGS.
127
00:14:10,249 --> 00:14:17,456
>> Pelley: WHY TAKE THE RISK?
WHY YOU?
>> Higgins: IF RUSSIA IS TO
SUSTAIN ITSELF, IT HAS TO RULE
128
00:14:17,523 --> 00:14:22,828
BY FEAR.
YOU CAN'T JUST LET THAT FEAR
OVERTAKE YOU.
IF YOU'RE IN A POSITION TO DO
129
00:14:22,895 --> 00:14:26,732
SOMETHING, IF YOU HAVE
INFORMATION, IF YOU HAVE THE
MOTIVATION AND YOU HAVE THE
STRENGTH TO DO IT, YOU SHOULD DO
130
00:14:26,799 --> 00:14:32,504
IT.
>> Pelley: UKRAINE WILL BE THE
MOSTTHOROUGHLY DOCUMENTED WAR
IN HISTORY.
131
00:14:32,571 --> 00:14:42,848
RUSSIA SAYS NO CIVILIANS HAVE
BEEN HARMED BY ITS FORCES, AND
SCENES OF ATROCITIES ARE STAGED.
BUT, PUTIN'S DEFENSE IS A
132
00:14:42,915 --> 00:14:53,759
THROWBACK TO A PREVIOUS CENTURY,
ANALOG DENIALS IN THE AGE OF THE
DIGITAL WITNESS.
( TICKING )
133
00:14:54,893 --> 00:15:06,438
>> HOW BELLINGCAT IS USING
TIKTOK TO INVESTIGATE THE WAR
IN UKRAINE.
AT 60minutesovertime.com.
134
00:15:09,875 --> 00:15:16,582
>> Lesley Stahl: JUST OFF THE
SIDE OF THE ROAD SAT A GRAND
WHITE HOUSE CALLED SHARSWOOD,
SILENTLY HOLDING SECRETS FROM
135
00:15:16,649 --> 00:15:23,555
THE PAST, WAITING FOR A NEW
OWNER TO UNCOVER THEM.
SOUNDS LIKE THE OPENING LINE OF
A SOUTHERN GOTHIC NOVEL.
136
00:15:23,622 --> 00:15:33,132
BUT THIS STORY IS ABOUT A REAL
FAMILY, AND A REAL HOUSE, THIS
COUNTRY'S HISTORY, AND A MAN WHO
FOUND HIMSELF AT THE CENTER OF
137
00:15:33,198 --> 00:15:40,906
FAR MORE THAN HE HAD BARGAINED
FOR.
THE MAN IS FRED MILLER, A 56-
YEAR-OLD AIR FORCE VETERAN WHO
138
00:15:40,973 --> 00:15:45,878
WAS LOOKING TO BUY PROPERTY IN
HIS VIRGINIA HOMETOWN FOR HIS
LARGE EXTENDED FAMILY'S FREQUENT
GET-TOGETHERS.
139
00:15:45,944 --> 00:15:53,552
HE HAD NEVER HEARD THE NAME
SHARSWOOD, AND YET THIS OLD
HOUSE WOULD LEAD HIM ON A
JOURNEY OF DISCOVERY, WITH
140
00:15:53,619 --> 00:16:05,631
SURPRISES AND REVELATIONS THAT
SEEM BOTH IMPOSSIBLE AND
INEVITABLE ALL AT ONCE.
THESE ARE THE GENTLE HILLS OF
141
00:16:05,698 --> 00:16:13,305
PITTSYLVANIA COUNTY, VIRGINIA--
QUIET, RURAL FARM COUNTRY NEAR
THE NORTH CAROLINA BORDER THAT
ONCE PRODUCED MORE TOBACCO THAN
142
00:16:13,372 --> 00:16:17,643
ANY COUNTY IN THE STATE.
>> Fred Miller: HEY, WE'RE GOING
TO GATHER UP IN THIS ROOM HERE,
MAINLY.
143
00:16:17,710 --> 00:16:25,951
>> Stahl: FRED MILLER GREW UP
HERE, IN A CLOSE FAMILY THAT
LIKES GETTING TOGETHER REGULARLY
FOR BIRTHDAYS, FISH FRYS AND, AS
144
00:16:26,018 --> 00:16:33,492
HIS COUSIN ADAM MILLER TOLD US,
JUST ABOUT ANYTHING.
>> Adam Miller: WE PLAY GAMES,
AND WE DO, LIKE, A LOT OF FOOD
145
00:16:33,559 --> 00:16:37,763
COMPETITIONS.
>> Stahl: I HEAR THE FOOD IS
MAINLY CAKE.
>> Adam: YEAH.
146
00:16:37,830 --> 00:16:43,736
( LAUGHTER )
TOO MANY CAKES--
>> Fred: TOO MANY CAKES.
>> Stahl: FRED'S COUSIN, TONYA
147
00:16:43,802 --> 00:16:49,942
MILLER POPE, AND HIS SISTER,
DEBRA COLES, TOLD US IT'S A BIG
FAMILY.
FRED'S MOTHER BETTY AND HIS AUNT
148
00:16:50,008 --> 00:16:54,580
BRENDA WERE TWO OF 11.
HOW MANY COUSINS?
>> Aunt Brenda: OH MY GOD!
( OVERTALK )
149
00:16:54,646 --> 00:16:58,050
>> Karen Dixon-Rexroth:
HUNDREDS.
>> Fred: IT'S HUNDREDS--
>> Family Member: HUNDREDS.
150
00:16:58,117 --> 00:17:01,086
>> Brenda: AT LEAST 100.
>> Stahl: SO NO WONDER FRED
NEEDED TO FIND--
>> Family Member: YES!
151
00:17:01,153 --> 00:17:05,791
( LAUGHTER )
>> Fred: A HUGE PLACE.
>> Brenda: EXACTLY.
>> Stahl: FRED LIVES IN
152
00:17:05,858 --> 00:17:11,830
CALIFORNIA, WHERE HE WORKS AS A
CIVIL ENGINEER FOR THE AIR
FORCE, BUT HE VISITS THE FAMILY
IN VIRGINIA OFTEN.
153
00:17:11,897 --> 00:17:15,567
>> Fred: ONE DAY, OUT OF THE
BLUE, MY SISTER CALLED ME AND
TOLD ME ABOUT A BIG HOUSE UP THE
ROAD FOR SALE.
154
00:17:15,634 --> 00:17:20,773
>> Stahl: THIS SISTER RIGHT
HERE?
>> Fred: YEAH.
>> Karen: YEAH.
155
00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:24,977
>> Stahl: KAREN DIXON-REXROTH,
FRED'S BABY SISTER, HAD SPOTTED
IT.
>> Karen: ME AND MY MOM WAS
156
00:17:25,043 --> 00:17:29,715
RIDING PAST THE HOUSE, AND I SAW
THE "FOR SALE" SIGN.
I SAID, "OH, MY GOODNESS.
WE HAVE TO GET THIS HOUSE."
157
00:17:29,782 --> 00:17:35,687
I CALL FRED.
"FRED, THIS HOUSE IS FOR SALE."
HE'S LIKE, "WHAT HOUSE?"
I SAID, "YOU KNOW THE HOUSE--
158
00:17:35,754 --> 00:17:41,693
THE-- THE SCARY HOUSE," I CALL
IT.
( LAUGHS )
>> Stahl: THE "SCARY HOUSE" WAS
159
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:48,700
LESS THAN A MILE UP THE ROAD
FROM THEIR MOM'S.
THEY'D PASSED IT EVERY DAY AS
KIDS ON THEIR WAY TO SCHOOL.
160
00:17:48,767 --> 00:17:52,538
WHAT DID YOU KNOW ABOUT
SHARSWOOD?
>> Betty Dixon: ABSOLUTELY
NOTHING--
161
00:17:52,604 --> 00:17:55,374
>> Tonya Miller Pope: NOTHING.
>> Debra Coles: NOTHING.
>> Brenda: NO.
>> Adam: JUST KNEW IT WAS-- SAW
162
00:17:55,441 --> 00:17:58,343
THE HOUSE--
>> Tonya: A BIG HOUSE.
>> Karen: HE WAS DEBATING,
"SHOULD WE PUT IN A BID FOR IT?"
163
00:17:58,410 --> 00:18:03,148
I SAID, "YES, ABSOLUTELY.
LET'S DO IT."
>> Stahl: DID SHE TWIST YOUR
ARM?
164
00:18:03,215 --> 00:18:06,218
>> Fred: IT TOOK ALL THE
TWISTING SHE COULD DO.
BECAUSE I-- I D-- I DIDN'T WANT
TO BUY IT--
165
00:18:06,285 --> 00:18:16,595
>> Stahl: BUT THINKING HIS BID
WOULD BE REJECTED ANYWAY, HE
MADE AN OFFER OF JUST ABOVE THE
$220,000 ASKING PRICE.
166
00:18:16,662 --> 00:18:22,067
WHY DID YOU THINK THEY WEREN'T
GOING TO ACCEPT THE OFFER?
>> Fred: WELL, I MEAN, I'M--
INITIALLY, ME, I THOUGHT THAT
167
00:18:22,134 --> 00:18:26,305
BECAUSE I WAS BLACK THAT THEY
WOULD NEVER-- SURELY, THEY WOULD
NEVER SELL THIS HOUSE TO SOMEONE
THAT'S BLACK.
168
00:18:26,371 --> 00:18:31,109
SO FOR US TO BE ABLE TO OWN THIS
THING, I THOUGHT IT WOULD NEVER
HAPPEN, YEAH, IN A MILLION
YEARS.
169
00:18:31,176 --> 00:18:34,446
>> Stahl: SO GUESS WHAT
HAPPENED?
A MILLION YEARS.
>> Fred: A MILLION YEARS
170
00:18:34,513 --> 00:18:37,583
HAPPENED.
( LAUGHS )
>> Karen: YES.
( LAUGHS )
171
00:18:37,649 --> 00:18:45,224
YES, ABSOLUTELY.
>> Fred: WE USE TO ALWAYS SEE
THIS HOUSE OUT HERE.
>> Stahl: SO IN MAY OF 2020,
172
00:18:45,290 --> 00:18:52,297
FRED MILLER PURCHASED THE FULLY-
FURNISHED HOUSE, PLUS 10.5 ACRES
OF LAND, FROM A FAMILY CALLED
THE THOMPSONS, WHO HAD OWNED IT
173
00:18:52,364 --> 00:18:56,568
SINCE 1917.
>> Fred: THE FIRST TIME I DROVE
UP TO THE PLACE, ALL I COULD DO
IS STOP BY THE EDGE OF THE ROAD
174
00:18:56,635 --> 00:19:01,840
THERE AND JUST LOOK UP IN-- IN
AMAZEMENT.
LIKE, WOW, THIS IS-- THIS IS
MINE.
175
00:19:01,907 --> 00:19:09,481
>> Karen: THIS IS AN ORIGINAL
ROOM FROM THE 1800s.
>> Stahl: KAREN SAYS SHE GOT
OBSESSED WITH THE HOUSE,
176
00:19:09,548 --> 00:19:17,189
SPENDING NIGHTS AND WEEKENDS
ONLINE RESEARCHING ITS SECRETS.
>> Karen: HIDING SPOT THEY SAY
WAS FROM THE CIVIL WAR, SO THEY
177
00:19:17,256 --> 00:19:21,360
WOULD HIDE THE VALUABLES--
>> Stahl: SECRET HIDEAWAY.
>> Karen: YEAH, A SECRET HIDING
SPOT.
178
00:19:21,426 --> 00:19:28,333
>> Stahl: SHE DISCOVERED THE
HOUSE HAD BEEN BUILT AROUND
1850, IN THE GOTHIC REVIVAL
STYLE, BY A WELL-KNOWN NEW YORK
179
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:35,374
ARCHITECT.
AND SHE LEARNED AND TOLD HER
FAMILY THAT ITS NAME HAD BEEN
SHARSWOOD.
180
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,211
>> Fred: EVERY DAY SHE WAS
CALLING ME WITH NEW INFORMATION.
I'M LIKE, "MY GOODNESS, OKAY,
RELAX."
181
00:19:39,278 --> 00:19:42,281
( LAUGHTER )
>> Stahl: ARE YOU EXAGGERATING?
EVERY DAY?
>> Fred: NO, I'M NOT
182
00:19:42,347 --> 00:19:50,155
EXAGGERATING AT ALL.
( LAUGHTER )
>> Stahl: BUT THEN, KAREN TURNED
UP SOMETHING THAT STUNNED HER.
183
00:19:50,222 --> 00:19:58,263
IN THE 1800s, SHARSWOOD HAD BEEN
THE SEAT OF A MAJOR, 1,300-ACRE
PLANTATION, ONE OF THE LARGER
ONES IN THE COUNTY.
184
00:19:58,330 --> 00:20:05,537
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF YOU OWNING
A PLANTATION?
>> Fred: I WAS A LITTLE BIT-- A
LITTLE SHOCKED BY THAT, I WOULD
185
00:20:05,604 --> 00:20:10,142
SAY.
BECAUSE I JUST WANTED SOMEWHERE
TO HAVE FAMILY GATHERINGS.
>> Tonya: WHEN I FOUND OUT THAT
186
00:20:10,208 --> 00:20:13,779
IT WAS A PLANTATION, AND THEN
I'M LIKE, OKAY, FRED JUST BOUGHT
A PLANTATION--
>> Family Member: RIGHT.
187
00:20:13,845 --> 00:20:17,816
>> Tonya: I WAS LIKE, WE OWN--
WE OWN A PLANTATION--
>> Karen: YEAH, WHAT WE GOING TO
DO UP HERE?
188
00:20:17,883 --> 00:20:26,158
>> Tonya: IT WAS JUST-- A
FEELING OF JUST-- POWER.
IT WAS JUST A POWERFUL FEELING.
>> Karen: IT IS.
189
00:20:26,224 --> 00:20:34,132
>> Stahl: POWERFUL, BUT OF
COURSE, "PLANTATION" IMPLIES
SLAVERY, AND BEFORE THE CIVIL
WAR, PITTSYLVANIA COUNTY HELD
190
00:20:34,199 --> 00:20:40,772
MORE THAN 14,000 ENSLAVED
PEOPLE.
THE STATE OF VIRGINIA, JUST
UNDER 500,000.
191
00:20:40,839 --> 00:20:47,846
>> Dexter Miller: I SAID, "DO
YOU REALIZE WHAT THIS IS?"
THEY DIDN'T HAVE A CLUE.
>> Stahl: DEXTER MILLER, ONE OF
192
00:20:47,913 --> 00:20:56,355
FRED AND KAREN'S MANY SECOND
COUSINS, KNEW SOMETHING ABOUT
SHARSWOOD BECAUSE, YEARS AGO,
HE'D BEEN COWORKERS WITH BILL
193
00:20:56,421 --> 00:21:02,227
THOMPSON, WHOSE FAMILY THEN
OWNED IT.
BILL JOINED US FOR A
CONVERSATION ON WHAT USED TO BE
194
00:21:02,294 --> 00:21:08,433
HIS CHILDHOOD PORCH.
YOU GREW UP IN THIS HOUSE.
>> Bill Thompson: I DID.
THIS WAS MY HOME.
195
00:21:08,500 --> 00:21:16,074
>> Stahl: HE INHERITED MUCH OF
THE FARMLAND AND STILL LIVES UP
THE ROAD.
HIS SISTER INHERITED THE HOUSE
196
00:21:16,141 --> 00:21:22,214
AND SOLD IT TO FRED.
>> Stahl: YOU KNOW, WHEN FRED
WAS BUYING THE HOUSE, HE DID NOT
THINK THAT THE HOUSE WOULD BE
197
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:28,186
SOLD TO A BLACK PERSON.
>> Bill Thompson: WHY WOULD YOU
THINK THAT, FRED?
>> Fred: WELL, BECAUSE, YOU
198
00:21:28,253 --> 00:21:30,722
KNOW, IT'S-- M-- I MEAN, WE'RE
IN RURAL VIRGINIA.
RIGHT?
>> Bill Thompson: WELL, THIS IS
199
00:21:30,789 --> 00:21:38,230
TRUE.
( LAUGHTER )
>> Stahl: FOR YEARS, DEXTER AND
ANOTHER SECOND COUSIN, SONYA
200
00:21:38,296 --> 00:21:46,204
WOMACK-MIRANDA, HAD BEEN TRYING
TO PIECE TOGETHER THE MILLER
FAMILY'S ORIGINS-- A NOTORIOUSLY
DIFFICULT TASK FOR AFRICAN
201
00:21:46,271 --> 00:21:52,911
AMERICANS, BECAUSE RECORDS ARE
HARD TO COME BY, ESPECIALLY
BEFORE 1865.
>> Sonya Womack-Miranda: IT
202
00:21:52,978 --> 00:21:57,115
REALLY WAS A HOBBY.
>> Dexter: IT WAS ADDICTIVE.
IT WAS ADDICTIVE, IT REALLY WAS.
>> Stahl: YOU WERE LIKE PRIVATE
203
00:21:57,182 --> 00:22:02,354
EYES.
>> Sonya: YEAH.
>> Dexter: YES.
>> Stahl: THEY HAD BEEN ABLE TO
204
00:22:02,421 --> 00:22:08,660
TRACE THE WHOLE MILLER CLAN BACK
TO ONE WOMAN.
>> Sonya: IT'S DEXTER'S GREAT-
GRANDMOTHER; IT'S MY GREAT-
205
00:22:08,727 --> 00:22:11,963
GREAT-GRANDMOTHER, SARAH.
>> Stahl: SARAH MILLER?
>> Dexter: MM-HMM.
>> Sonya: YES.
206
00:22:12,030 --> 00:22:17,969
>> Stahl: THEY HAD FOUND A
PICTURE OF SARAH MILLER.
>> Dexter: THIS IS SARAH RIGHT
HERE.
207
00:22:18,036 --> 00:22:23,975
>> Stahl: AND THEY'D GOTTEN HOLD
OF HER DEATH CERTIFICATE, WHICH
SHOWED THAT SHE'D BEEN BORN IN
PITTSYLVANIA COUNTY IN 1868,
208
00:22:24,042 --> 00:22:32,751
JUST THREE YEARS AFTER THE END
OF THE CIVIL WAR.
AND, THEY FOUND AN EVEN BETTER
RESOURCE-- ONE OF THEIR OLDEST
209
00:22:32,818 --> 00:22:41,960
LIVING RELATIVES, A BELOVED
FORMER SCHOOL TEACHER NAMED
MARIAN KEYES.
MS. KEYES, AS EVERYONE HERE
210
00:22:42,027 --> 00:22:46,098
CALLS HER, IS ABOUT TO TURN 90.
SARAH MILLER IS THE MATRIARCH OF
THE FAMILY.
>> Marian Keyes: YES, SHE-- YES,
211
00:22:46,164 --> 00:22:50,268
SHE WAS.
>> Stahl: DID YOU KNOW HER?
>> Keyes: YES, I DID.
>> Stahl: WELL, TELL US ABOUT
212
00:22:50,335 --> 00:22:54,139
HER.
>> Marian Keyes: SHE WOULD
ALWAYS BE OUT THERE WITH A BROOM
IN HER HAND, AND SHE WOULD BE
213
00:22:54,206 --> 00:23:02,347
WAITING FOR US.
>> Stahl: MARIAN KEYES REMEMBERS
HER GREAT-GRANDMOTHER SARAH AS A
FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH.
214
00:23:02,414 --> 00:23:06,518
>> Marian Keyes: WHAT SHE WANTED
YOU TO KNOW, YOU WERE GOING TO
KNOW IT.
>> Stahl: WAS SHE PERSNICKETY,
215
00:23:06,585 --> 00:23:09,421
AS THEY SAY--
>> Marian Keyes: YES, YES, YES--
>> Stahl: WAS SHE DIFFICULT?
STERN?
216
00:23:09,488 --> 00:23:14,359
>> Marian Keyes: VERY.
VERY.
SHE DIDN'T-- SHE DIDN'T PLAY.
SHE DIDN'T PLAY.
217
00:23:14,426 --> 00:23:22,300
BUT WE LOVED HER.
>> Stahl: BUT THAT'S WHERE MS.
KEYES' KNOWLEDGE OF MILLER
FAMILY HISTORY ENDED.
218
00:23:22,367 --> 00:23:28,907
SHE DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT
THE GENERATIONS BEFORE
EMANCIPATION.
WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP, WHAT
219
00:23:28,974 --> 00:23:34,112
DID YOU LEARN OR HEAR FROM YOUR
PARENTS ABOUT SLAVERY?
>> Marian Keyes: NOTHING.
>> Stahl: NOTHING?
220
00:23:34,179 --> 00:23:39,985
>> Marian Keyes: NOTHING.
THEY DID NOT TALK ABOUT IT.
I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THEY WERE
AFRAID, WHETHER IT WAS TOO
221
00:23:40,051 --> 00:23:45,357
MISERABLE OR PAINFUL, OR THEY
WANTED TO FORGET IT.
I DON'T KNOW.
BUT THEY DID NOT TALK TO US
222
00:23:45,423 --> 00:23:48,994
ABOUT IT AT ALL.
AND WE DIDN'T ASK THEM QUESTIONS
ABOUT IT.
>> Stahl: WHY NOT?
223
00:23:49,060 --> 00:23:54,032
>> Marian Keyes: WE WERE AFRAID
TO.
( LAUGHS )
>> Stahl: WE HEARD THAT AGAIN
224
00:23:54,099 --> 00:24:00,038
AND AGAIN FROM MEMBERS OF THE
MILLER FAMILY.
>> Dexter: SLAVERY WASN'T
MENTIONED AT ALL.
225
00:24:00,105 --> 00:24:09,848
>> Stahl: WAS THERE ALMOST A
CODE, "WE DON'T TALK ABOUT
SLAVERY," SO NOBODY DID?
>> Dexter: IT WAS SOMETHING THAT
226
00:24:09,915 --> 00:24:16,021
EVERY BLACK PERSON KNEW, YOU
DIDN'T TALK ABOUT.
YOUR PARENTS WAS TO TELL YOU NOT
TO DISCUSS GROWN-PEOPLE
227
00:24:16,087 --> 00:24:21,560
BUSINESS.
THAT'S WHAT THEY'LL TELL YOU.
>> Fred: THE FIRST TIME SLAVERY
WAS DISCUSSED WAS-- I GUESS, IN
228
00:24:21,626 --> 00:24:24,763
THE '70s, WHEN "ROOTS" CAME--
THE MOVIE "ROOTS"
CAME ABOUT.
>> Stahl: THAT'S THE FIRST TIME?
229
00:24:24,830 --> 00:24:30,101
>> Karen: MM-HMM.
>> Stahl: WHEN "ROOTS" WAS ON
TELEVISION?
DID YOU READ ABOUT IT IN SCHOOL?
230
00:24:30,168 --> 00:24:35,607
>> Fred: N-- NOT MUCH.
>> Stahl: HIS FAMILY ALSO
REMEMBERS "ROOTS" AS PIVOTAL.
>> Debra: YES.
231
00:24:35,674 --> 00:24:38,410
>> Karen: MM-HMM.
>> Brenda: I THINK THAT'S--
THAT'S WHERE WE ALL--
>> Karen: THAT'S WHERE WE ALL--
232
00:24:38,476 --> 00:24:41,780
>> Brenda: I THINK ALL OF US
FELT LIKE, THAT--
>> Tonya: THAT WAS AN EYE-
OPENER.
233
00:24:41,847 --> 00:24:44,616
>> Stahl: BUT EVEN AFTER
"ROOTS," YOU DIDN'T GO AND SAY,
"WHAT ABOUT OUR FAMILY?"
>> Karen: NO.
234
00:24:44,683 --> 00:24:48,520
>> Stahl: EVEN THEN?
>> Karen: NOT AT ALL.
>> Stahl: WHAT HELD YOU BACK?
>> Fred: I JUST DIDN'T THINK
235
00:24:48,587 --> 00:24:51,623
THEY WANTED TO TALK ABOUT IT.
>> Stahl: BUT DIDN'T YOU WANT TO
KNOW?
>> Fred: I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE
236
00:24:51,690 --> 00:24:59,264
KNOWN.
I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE KNOWN.
>> Stahl: FRED'S PURCHASE OF
SHARSWOOD WAS ABOUT TO GIVE HIM
237
00:24:59,331 --> 00:25:06,037
A CRASH COURSE IN HIS HOMETOWN'S
SLAVERY ROOTS.
IT STARTED WITH A CALL FROM TWO
ARCHEOLOGISTS, WHO WANTED TO
238
00:25:06,104 --> 00:25:10,575
COME DO RESEARCH.
>> Dennis Pogue: WE'RE HISTORIC
PRESERVATIONISTS.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE START FROM
239
00:25:10,642 --> 00:25:18,450
THE IDEA THAT THESE PLACES
MATTER.
>> Stahl: DENNIS POGUE ONCE
WORKED AT MOUNT VERNON; DOUG
240
00:25:18,516 --> 00:25:26,491
SANFORD AT MONTICELLO.
THEY ASKED IF THEY COULD COME
EXPLORE SHARSWOOD.
BUT, THEY WEREN'T INTERESTED IN
241
00:25:26,558 --> 00:25:34,232
THE ORNATE HOUSE DESIGNED BY
THAT FAMOUS ARCHITECT.
WHAT THEY CARED ABOUT WAS THE
DILAPIDATED BUILDING WITH THE
242
00:25:34,299 --> 00:25:40,839
TIN ROOF PAST THE BIG OAK TREE
BEHIND IT.
THEY SUSPECTED IT HAD ONCE BEEN
SLAVE QUARTERS.
243
00:25:40,906 --> 00:25:45,377
>> Doug Sanford: THERE WERE ONCE
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF THESE
BUILDINGS.
THESE WERE ONE OF THE MOST
244
00:25:45,443 --> 00:25:50,482
COMMON TYPES OF ARCHITECTURE IN
VIRGINIA.
>> Pogue: LET ME GIVE YOU THE
RUNNING DIMENSIONS.
245
00:25:50,548 --> 00:25:59,090
>> Stahl: BUT NOW THESE
BUILDINGS ARE RARE, WITH FEWER
THAN 1,500 BELIEVED TO BE STILL
STANDING, AND POGUE AND SANFORD
246
00:25:59,157 --> 00:26:02,560
STARTED A PROJECT TO SEARCH FOR
THEM.
>> Pogue: SO, ONE, TWO, THREE
FOUR...
247
00:26:02,627 --> 00:26:09,734
>> Stahl: FRED AND KAREN INVITED
THEM TO COME INVESTIGATE.
THEY EXAMINED, MEASURED, AND
SEARCHED FOR CLUES.
248
00:26:09,801 --> 00:26:15,373
>> Pogue: YOU CAN SEE THE SIDING
IS...
>> Stahl: THEY SHOWED US SOME OF
WHAT THEY FOUND.
249
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:21,813
>> Pogue: THESE ARE THE KIND OF
NAILS THAT WE EXPECT TO SEE ON
BUILDINGS BEFORE 1800.
HAND-MADE, WROUGHT NAILS.
250
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,716
>> Stahl: HAND-MADE?
>> Pogue: YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE
THE HAMMER STROKES ON THE HEAD.
>> Stahl: IS THIS THE ORIGINAL
251
00:26:24,783 --> 00:26:30,155
SIDING?
>> Pogue: THESE ARE REMNANTS OF
THE ORIGINAL SIDING.
ABSOLUTELY.
252
00:26:30,221 --> 00:26:36,261
OKAY.
>> Stahl: THEY WORKED FROM NOON
TO DUSK, AND FINALLY GAVE KAREN
AND FRED THEIR CONCLUSION.
253
00:26:36,328 --> 00:26:42,233
>> Pogue: IT'S GOT A COMPLEX
HISTORY, BUT WE THINK PART OF
THAT HISTORY, A BIG PART OF THAT
HISTORY WAS, IT WAS A-- A
254
00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:50,542
QUARTER FOR ENSLAVED FOLKS.
>> Stahl: THEY SAY IT'S ONE OF
THE BEST PRESERVED THEY'VE SEEN.
THEY BELIEVE IT WAS ORIGINALLY
255
00:26:50,608 --> 00:26:58,416
BUILT IN THE LATE 1700s AS A
HOUSE FOR A WHITE FAMILY...
>> Sanford: THAT'S WHERE THE
ORIGINAL DOOR WAS.
256
00:26:58,483 --> 00:27:02,620
>> Stahl: ...AND WAS LATER
DIVIDED INTO TWO SEPARATE,
SINGLE-ROOM SLAVE DWELLINGS.
>> Stahl: TWO FAMILIES?
257
00:27:02,687 --> 00:27:09,194
>> Sanford: YEAH.
ONE HOUSEHOLD HERE; ANOTHER
ENSLAVED HOUSEHOLD OVER THERE.
>> Fred: IT JUST SHOWED THAT IT
258
00:27:09,260 --> 00:27:14,632
WAS TWO DIFFERENT WORLDS: THIS
FRONT, BIG, BEAUTIFUL WORLD
HERE, AND LAVISH; AND YOU GO
RIGHT BEHIND THE HOUSE AND THERE
259
00:27:14,699 --> 00:27:20,238
WAS A WHOLE DIFFERENT STORY.
IT'S KIND OF CRAZY FOR ME JUST
TO EVEN WALK AROUND OUT THERE.
>> Stahl: DO YOU OWN THAT?
260
00:27:20,305 --> 00:27:24,309
DO YOU OWN THE SLAVE HOUSE, TOO?
>> Fred: I OWN THE SLAVE HOUSE.
I DO.
THAT'S MINE.
261
00:27:24,376 --> 00:27:30,715
>> Stahl: WOW.
>> Fred: YEAH.
( LAUGHS )
>> Stahl: FRED MILLER'S PURCHASE
262
00:27:30,782 --> 00:27:42,460
CONTINUES TO SURPRISE HIS
FAMILY, AND INTRIGUE HISTORIANS,
WHEN WE COME BACK.
( TICKING )
263
00:27:43,361 --> 00:27:47,032
( TICKING )
264
00:27:50,735 --> 00:27:57,108
>> Lesley Stahl: WHEN FRED
MILLER UNWITTINGLY PURCHASED
WHAT HE NOW KNOWS TO BE THE
SHARSWOOD PLANTATION HOUSE--
265
00:27:57,175 --> 00:28:03,014
WITH SLAVE QUARTERS JUST BEHIND
IT-- HE KNEW VIRTUALLY NOTHING
ABOUT HIS OWN FAMILY HISTORY.
HE'D ALWAYS ASSUMED HIS
266
00:28:03,081 --> 00:28:11,022
ANCESTORS HAD BEEN ENSLAVED, BUT
IT FELT TO HIM LIKE AN
UNKNOWABLE PART OF A DISTANT
PAST.
267
00:28:11,089 --> 00:28:18,763
LEARNING ABOUT HIS GREAT-
GRANDMOTHER, SARAH MILLER, WHOM
HIS MOTHER HAD KNOWN AS A CHILD,
PIQUED HIS INTEREST, SO WHEN HE
268
00:28:18,830 --> 00:28:25,070
FOUND OUT HER HOUSE WAS STILL
STANDING JUST A FEW MILES AWAY
FROM SHARSWOOD, HE ASKED HIS
MOTHER, BETTY DIXON, TO GO THERE
269
00:28:25,136 --> 00:28:31,109
WITH HIM.
>> Fred: ALL RIGHT, WE'RE GOING
TO WALK DOWN THROUGH HERE.
>> Stahl: BETTY'S GRANDMOTHER
270
00:28:31,176 --> 00:28:38,783
SARAH HAD BEEN THE FIRST OF
THEIR ANCESTORS TO BE BORN INTO
FREEDOM, SHORTLY AFTER THE CIVIL
WAR.
271
00:28:38,850 --> 00:28:45,056
>> Betty: LAST TIME I SAW THIS
CABIN, IT HAD NO LIGHTS.
NO ELECTRICITY.
>> Stahl: BETTY REMEMBERS
272
00:28:45,123 --> 00:28:48,760
VISITING AND SPENDING THE NIGHT
HERE WITH HER GRANDMOTHER AND
COUSINS.
>> WHOA.
273
00:28:48,827 --> 00:28:59,404
WHAT IS IT, ONE ROOM?
>> Stahl: SARAH'S HOUSE DIDN'T
LOOK MUCH BIGGER THAN THE SLAVE
DWELLING: JUST A SINGLE ROOM,
274
00:28:59,471 --> 00:29:05,310
WITH A SMALLER ONE ABOVE IT.
AND NO INDOOR PLUMBING.
>> Fred: COME A LONG WAYS, HUH?
>> Betty: SURE DID.
275
00:29:05,376 --> 00:29:10,515
>> Fred: GLAD I DIDN'T HAVE TO
LIVE IN HERE.
>> Betty: WELL, HAD TO MAKE IT
WORK.
276
00:29:10,582 --> 00:29:15,086
>> Fred: YOU WANT A PIECE OF
THIS WALLPAPER TO TAKE WITH YOU?
>> Betty: YEAH.
>> Fred: HOPE THE LANDLORD DON'T
277
00:29:15,153 --> 00:29:22,660
SAY NOTHING.
>> Betty: OH LORD.
THERE YOU GO.
>> Stahl: SARAH MILLER IS BURIED
278
00:29:22,727 --> 00:29:26,898
IN THE CEMETERY OF THE CHURCH
THE MILLER FAMILY STILL ATTENDS.
>> Fred: I'M GLAD NOW I CAN
ACTUALLY COME HERE AND SEE.
279
00:29:26,965 --> 00:29:35,106
>> Woman: YEAH.
>> Stahl: BUT, UNBEKNOWNST TO
THIS MILLER FAMILY, JUST FIVE
MILES UP THE ROAD IN A DIFFERENT
280
00:29:35,173 --> 00:29:43,014
CHURCH CEMETERY, WAS A TOMBSTONE
THAT ALSO READ "MILLER"-- A FAR
OLDER ONE, WITH NAMES FRED AND
HIS FAMILY HAD NEVER HEARD OF...
281
00:29:43,081 --> 00:29:51,089
BUT WERE ABOUT TO.
IN KAREN'S SEARCH FOR
INFORMATION ABOUT SHARSWOOD, SHE
FOUND A DOCUMENT THAT MENTIONED
282
00:29:51,156 --> 00:29:58,129
THEM.
>> Karen: IT GAVE THE NAMES OF
THE ORIGINAL OWNERS, WHO WAS
NATHANIEL CRENSHAW MILLER, AND
283
00:29:58,196 --> 00:30:03,101
ALSO CHARLES EDWIN MILLER.
>> Stahl: MILLER?
>> Karen: YES.
MILLER.
284
00:30:03,168 --> 00:30:07,539
>> Stahl: ANY LIGHT BULBS?
ANY WIRES CONNECT?
>> Karen: NO, NOT AT THAT POINT.
>> Fred: FOR ME, IT DIDN'T.
285
00:30:07,605 --> 00:30:12,844
AT THAT TIME IT STILL DIDN'T.
>> Karen: NOT AT THAT POINT, IT
DID NOT.
>> Stahl: OTHERS HAD SUSPECTED A
286
00:30:12,911 --> 00:30:18,816
CONNECTION BETWEEN THE TWO SETS
OF MILLERS.
>> Bill Thompson: BECAUSE I WAS
TELLING DEXTER, BACK IN '88, I--
287
00:30:18,883 --> 00:30:24,822
>> Stahl: BILL THOMPSON SAYS HE
HAD MENTIONED THE THOUGHT TO
DEXTER 30 YEARS AGO.
>> Bill Thompson: WHAT WE HAD
288
00:30:24,889 --> 00:30:30,828
BEEN TAUGHT IN HIGH SCHOOL WAS
THAT, WHEN THEY FREED THE
SLAVES, THEY JUST TOOK THE LAST
NAME OF THE PERSON THAT WAS
289
00:30:30,895 --> 00:30:35,099
THERE, WHICH WAS MILLER.
I JUST HAD TOLD DEXTER, "DEXTER,
IT'S A GOOD CHANCE THAT YOUR
ANCESTORS CAME OFF OF THIS
290
00:30:35,166 --> 00:30:39,204
FARM."
>> Dexter: HE DID.
HE SAID THAT.
>> Stahl: SO YOU KNEW THAT THIS
291
00:30:39,270 --> 00:30:42,907
WAS A PLANTATION?
>> Dexter: I DID.
>> Stahl: WELL, FRED, YOU SAID
YOU DIDN'T KNOW.
292
00:30:42,974 --> 00:30:47,445
>> Fred: I HAD NO IDEA.
>> Stahl: DEXTER, YOU DIDN'T
TELL FRED.
>> Dexter: I DID NOT TELL FRED.
293
00:30:47,512 --> 00:30:57,755
I DID NOT TELL ANYONE.
>> Stahl: DEXTER SAYS HE'D KEPT
IT TO HIMSELF, BECAUSE HE HADN'T
FOUND ANY WAY TO PROVE IT.
294
00:30:57,822 --> 00:31:05,163
AND THAT'S WHERE THIS BECOMES A
DETECTIVE STORY, WITH THE MILLER
COUSINS NOW ON A MISSION TO
FIGURE OUT WHETHER IT COULD BE
295
00:31:05,230 --> 00:31:12,870
POSSIBLE THAT THEIR OWN
ANCESTORS MIGHT HAVE BEEN
ENSLAVED ON THE VERY PROPERTY
FRED NOW OWNED.
296
00:31:12,937 --> 00:31:21,679
THE FIRST STEP WAS FIGURING OUT
WHO THEIR LAST ENSLAVED
ANCESTORS WERE, AND SARAH
MILLER'S DEATH CERTIFICATE HELD
297
00:31:21,746 --> 00:31:27,719
THE ANSWER.
THE NAMES OF HER PARENTS: DAVID
AND VIOLET MILLER, WHO WOULD
HAVE BEEN ADULTS AT THE TIME OF
298
00:31:27,785 --> 00:31:34,025
EMANCIPATION.
DID YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT
THEM?
>> Karen: NOT AT ALL.
299
00:31:34,092 --> 00:31:39,163
NOT AT ALL.
>> Marian Keyes: I DIDN'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT THEM.
WE DIDN'T--
300
00:31:39,230 --> 00:31:42,967
>> Stahl: EVEN MARIAN KEYES, WHO
KNEW SARAH MILLER, HAD NEVER
HEARD THEIR NAMES.
>> Marian Keyes: NOTHING.
301
00:31:43,034 --> 00:31:51,175
>> Stahl: WOW.
>> Marian Keyes: SURE DIDN'T.
>> Karice Luck-Brimmer: I JUST--
I-- I WANT EVERYBODY TO KNOW.
302
00:31:51,242 --> 00:31:58,716
>> Stahl: ENTER KARICE LUCK-
BRIMMER, A LOCAL HISTORIAN AND
GENEALOGIST.
KAREN REACHED OUT TO HER TO SEE
303
00:31:58,783 --> 00:32:03,421
IF SHE COULD HELP.
WHAT ARE THE SPECIAL CHALLENGES
IN LOOKING FOR THE ANCESTORS OF
AFRICAN AMERICANS?
304
00:32:03,488 --> 00:32:10,595
>> Luck-Brimmer: AFRICAN
AMERICANS WERE NOT LISTED BY
NAME UNTIL THE 1870 CENSUS.
SO, BEFORE THAT, THEY WERE JUST
305
00:32:10,662 --> 00:32:15,233
A NUMBER.
>> Stahl: YOU MEAN, IF THEY WERE
ENSLAVED, THEY WEREN'T LISTED?
>> Luck-Brimmer: YES.
306
00:32:15,300 --> 00:32:23,241
AT ALL.
SO, REALLY, YOU'RE JUST LOOKING
FOR ANY TYPE OF TIPS AND CLUES
THAT YOU CAN.
307
00:32:23,308 --> 00:32:30,948
>> Stahl: SHE STARTED BY LOOKING
AT 1860 RECORDS FOR SHARSWOOD'S
THEN-OWNER, N.C., FOR NATHANIEL
CRENSHAW MILLER.
308
00:32:31,015 --> 00:32:36,954
>> Luck-Brimmer: THERE HE IS.
>> Stahl: N.C. MILLER, RIGHT
THERE, OKAY.
>> Luck-Brimmer: YEAH.
309
00:32:37,021 --> 00:32:47,231
HE HAD 58 SLAVES HERE.
>> Stahl: BUT WITH ONLY AGE AND
GENDER LISTED...
YOU HAVE "ENSLAVED PEOPLE," 69,
310
00:32:47,298 --> 00:32:53,871
44, 34, AND NOT A SINGLE NAME.
>> Luck-Brimmer: NO NAMES.
>> Stahl: THERE WAS NO WAY OF
KNOWING WHETHER VIOLET AND DAVID
311
00:32:53,938 --> 00:33:00,945
WERE AMONG THEM.
SO, KARICE LOOKED UP DAVID AND
VIOLET MILLER IN THE 1870
CENSUS, THE FIRST ONE AFTER THE
312
00:33:01,012 --> 00:33:11,289
CVIL WAR, WHERE THEY FINALLY
APPEARED BY NAME.
IT SHOWED THEY WERE FARMHANDS,
THAT THEY COULDN'T READ OR
313
00:33:11,356 --> 00:33:18,730
WRITE, AND IT LISTED THEIR
CHILDREN-- INCLUDING, AS KARICE
SHOWED US, A VERY YOUNG SARAH
MILLER.
314
00:33:18,796 --> 00:33:22,600
THERE'S SARAH.
SHE'S ONE YEAR OLD.
>> Luck-Brimmer: ONE YEARS OLD.
>> Stahl: AND THIS LOOKS LIKE
315
00:33:22,667 --> 00:33:26,771
EMILY.
>> Luck-Brimmer: YES.
>> Stahl: SHE'S THREE.
AND HERE'S SAMUEL.
316
00:33:26,838 --> 00:33:35,313
>> Luck-Brimmer: YEAH.
>> Stahl: HE'S FIVE.
TO KARICE, THAT MEANT SAMUEL,
SARAH'S OLDER BROTHER, WAS BORN
317
00:33:35,380 --> 00:33:45,022
BEFORE EMANCIPATION.
SO, KARICE SEARCHED FOR HIM IN
ANOTHER HISTORICAL RECORD CALLED
THE VIRGINIA SLAVE BIRTH INDEX,
318
00:33:45,089 --> 00:33:49,660
WHERE SLAVE OWNERS HAD TO LIST
BIRTHS ON THEIR PROPERTY.
>> Luck-Brimmer: THIS DOCUMENT.
>> Stahl: AND THERE, UNDER N.C.
319
00:33:49,727 --> 00:33:53,564
MILLER'S NAME...
>> Luck-Brimmer: N.C.
>> Stahl: RIGHT.
>> Luck-Brimmer: AND THERE'S
320
00:33:53,631 --> 00:33:57,969
SAMUEL.
>> Stahl: OH.
WAS SAMUEL.
>> Luck-Brimmer: AND, LOOK AT
321
00:33:58,035 --> 00:34:03,374
THAT.
>> Stahl: OH, MY WORD.
>> Luck-Brimmer: IT LISTS VIOLET
AS HIS MOTHER.
322
00:34:03,441 --> 00:34:11,983
>> Stahl: IT WAS THE GENEALOGY
EQUIVALENT OF A SMOKING GUN.
SO THIS IS PROOF THAT VIOLET,
SARAH'S MOTHER, WAS ENSLAVED BY
323
00:34:12,049 --> 00:34:15,486
N.C. MILLER?
>> Luck-Brimmer: YES, YES.
>> Stahl: AND THIS IS ABSOLUTE
PROOF?
324
00:34:15,553 --> 00:34:22,260
>> Luck-Brimmer: THIS IS
ABSOLUTE, DEFINITE PROOF.
>> Stahl: AND YOU WERE ABLE TO
TELL KAREN--
325
00:34:22,326 --> 00:34:31,235
>> Luck-Brimmer: THAT HER
ANCESTORS, DAVID AND VIOLET,
WERE ENSLAVED AT SHARSWOOD.
>> Karen: THAT WAS TOUGH.
326
00:34:31,302 --> 00:34:37,074
>> Stahl: SO, DID YOU CALL FRED?
>> Karen: I DID.
I DON'T THINK HE BELIEVED ME, IN
THE BEGINNING.
327
00:34:37,141 --> 00:34:45,716
>> Fred: I DIDN'T BELIEVE HER.
>> Stahl: SO THE CONNECTION
SUDDENLY IS MADE WITH YOUR
FAMILY, SLAVERY, AND THIS HOUSE.
328
00:34:45,783 --> 00:34:50,822
>> Karen: AND THIS HOUSE.
>> Fred: THIS HOUSE.
>> Stahl: AND YOU OWN IT.
>> Fred: ONCE I REALIZED THAT IT
329
00:34:50,888 --> 00:34:57,462
WAS ACTUALLY MY BLOOD THAT WAS
HERE, IT TOOK ON A WHOLE NEW
MEANING FOR ME.
IT REALLY SADDENS ME SOMETIMES
330
00:34:57,528 --> 00:35:01,098
WHEN I-- YOU KNOW?
AND I'M UP-- A LOT OF TIMES,
I'M UP WEE HOURS OF THE NIGHT
NOW, JUST THINKING ABOUT WHAT
331
00:35:01,165 --> 00:35:08,706
HAPPENED HERE.
>> Stahl: AS NEWS SPREAD THROUGH
THE FAMILY, THERE WAS SADNESS.
BUT THAT'S NOT ALL THERE WAS.
332
00:35:08,773 --> 00:35:12,276
>> Tonya: I ALMOST FELT LIKE I
WAS LOSING MY BREATH FOR A
MOMENT.
IT WAS ALMOST LIKE A FEELING OF
333
00:35:12,343 --> 00:35:18,649
BEING FOUND.
>> All: YES, MM-HMM.
>> Tonya: THIS IS WHERE I
STARTED.
334
00:35:18,716 --> 00:35:23,154
AND AS BLACK PEOPLE, WE DON'T
ALWAYS KNOW WHERE WE STARTED.
>> Stahl: SO, HERE WE ARE,
SITTING IN THIS HOUSE.
335
00:35:23,221 --> 00:35:31,162
>> Marian Keyes: I CAN'T BELIEVE
IT.
I CAN'T BELIEVE IT.
THAT I'M-- IN THE PLANTATION
336
00:35:31,229 --> 00:35:38,369
HOUSE OF THE PLANTATION THAT MY
FAMILY WAS ENSLAVED.
>> Stahl: YOU'RE LAUGHING AS IF
THIS CANNOT BE TRUE.
337
00:35:38,436 --> 00:35:43,140
>> Marian Keyes: CANNOT BE,
THAT'S RIGHT.
BUT IT IS.
>> Sonya: I FELT-- I FEEL
338
00:35:43,207 --> 00:35:51,415
COMPLETE.
>> Stahl: WOW.
>> Sonya: I'M NOT HALF OF A
HUMAN BEING ANYMORE.
339
00:35:51,482 --> 00:35:59,690
THEY MAKE ME WHOLE, EVEN IF I
DON'T KNOW THEM.
I FELT A CONNECTION TO THEM AT
SHARSWOOD.
340
00:35:59,757 --> 00:36:11,435
>> Dexter: I TOUCHED THE TREE, I
HUGGED THE TREE, AND I SAID,
"OH, MY GOD, YOU WAS HERE WHEN
MY ANCESTOR WAS HERE."
341
00:36:11,502 --> 00:36:19,911
I WONDER WHICH ANCESTOR OF MINE
HAS TOUCHED THE TREE.
I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY OR DO,
I JUST HUGGED THE TREE, AND FELT
342
00:36:19,977 --> 00:36:27,585
LIKE, "I'M HOME."
>> Stahl: HE SHARED THE NEWS
WITH BILL THOMPSON, WHO HAD HAD
THAT HUNCH ALL THOSE YEARS AGO.
343
00:36:27,652 --> 00:36:37,228
>> Bill Thompson: I LOOK AT IT
THAT I'VE BEEN A SERVANT TO THIS
FARM AND THIS HOUSE MY WHOLE
LIFE.
344
00:36:37,295 --> 00:36:42,199
AND, FOR THE MILLER FAMILY TO
COME BACK HOME TO MY HOME-- OUR
HOME--
>> Fred: OUR HOME.
345
00:36:42,266 --> 00:36:46,938
ABSOLUTELY.
>> Bill Thompson: IT'S GREAT.
IT'S A CELEBRATION OF-- OF
COMING HOME.
346
00:36:47,004 --> 00:36:50,474
>> Stahl: YOU'VE NEVER HEARD
ANYTHING LIKE THIS?
>> Pogue: NO.
>> Sanford: YEAH.
347
00:36:50,541 --> 00:36:55,212
SO, A NUMBER OF PLANTATION
PROPERTIES, LIKE MOUNT VERNON
AND MONTICELLO, HAVE ESTABLISHED
RELATIONS WITH DESCENDANTS OF
348
00:36:55,279 --> 00:37:01,319
THE ENSLAVED THERE.
BUT TO ACTUALLY SEE THOSE
DESCENDANTS COME TO OWN THAT
PLANTATION PROPERTY?
349
00:37:01,385 --> 00:37:07,091
WOW.
>> Debra: THIS IS GOD.
>> Adam: MM-HMM.
>> Debra: THIS IS-- THIS IS
350
00:37:07,158 --> 00:37:11,562
WHERE WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE.
>> Brenda: IT'S LIKE A FULL
CIRCLE, LIKE IT WAS MEANT TO
HAPPEN--
351
00:37:11,629 --> 00:37:15,566
>> Fred: IT'S GOD'S WORK.
>> Brenda: TO ME, IT'S LIKE IT
WAS MEANT TO HAPPEN.
>> Stahl: THE MILLERS ALSO SEE
352
00:37:15,633 --> 00:37:22,273
THE HAND OF THEIR ANCESTORS IN
ALL OF THIS.
>> Fred: I THINK THEY HAD TO BE,
BECAUSE I DID EVERYTHING-- I DID
353
00:37:22,340 --> 00:37:25,276
EVERYTHING IN MY POWER TO MAKE
THIS FAIL.
>> Brenda: TO NOT MAKE IT
HAPPEN.
354
00:37:25,343 --> 00:37:35,553
YEAH.
>> Fred: I TRIED TO MESS IT UP,
AT EVERY ANGLE.
>> Stahl: BUT THOSE ANCESTORS
355
00:37:35,620 --> 00:37:43,294
HAD ONE MORE SURPRISE IN STORE.
WITH ALL THE REVELATIONS, THERE
WAS ONE QUESTION THAT CONTINUED
TO GNAW AT DEXTER: WHERE WERE
356
00:37:43,361 --> 00:37:51,569
HIS ENSLAVED ANCESTORS BURIED?
SO, JUST WEEKS AGO, HE ASKED
BILL.
>> Dexter: I SAID, "BILL,
357
00:37:51,636 --> 00:37:57,475
THERE'S ONE QUESTION THAT'S BEEN
BOTHERING ME: WHERE IS THE SLAVE
CEMETERY?"
HE SAID, "DEXTER-- IT'S RIGHT
358
00:37:57,541 --> 00:38:02,313
OVER THERE."
I SAID, "RIGHT OVER WHERE?"
HE SAID, "YOU SEE THOSE TREES
OVER THERE?"
359
00:38:02,380 --> 00:38:07,351
>> Stahl: SO, DID YOU JUST GO
RIGHT UP THERE, THEN?
>> Dexter: WE WENT RIGHT UP
THERE.
360
00:38:07,418 --> 00:38:17,361
>> Stahl: THE TREES BILL
THOMPSON POINTED TO, JUST BEYOND
FRED'S PROPERTY, SURE DIDN'T
LOOK LIKE A CEMETERY-- THAT IS,
361
00:38:17,428 --> 00:38:21,365
UNTIL YOU START TO LOOK CLOSELY.
IS THAT ONE OF THEM--
>> Fred: THAT'S ONE OF THEM,
RIGHT THERE.
362
00:38:21,432 --> 00:38:24,702
>> Stahl: OH, MY GOSH!
>> Fred: AND THAT'S-- AND THAT'S
ONE.
AS YOU CAN SEE, THIS IS THE--
363
00:38:24,769 --> 00:38:27,505
INDENTION RIGHT THERE-- THE
HEADSTONE THERE.
MAYBE THIS IS A FOOTSTONE ON THE
OTHER END.
364
00:38:27,571 --> 00:38:30,341
>> Karen: YES.
>> Stahl: ( GASPS )
OH, MY.
>> Fred: IT ALWAYS SEEMED LIKE
365
00:38:30,408 --> 00:38:33,277
TO BE--
>> Stahl: OH, YEAH--
>> Fred: THERE'S ONE, YEAH,
ABSOLUTELY.
366
00:38:33,344 --> 00:38:43,254
>> Stahl: POKING UP THROUGH THE
LEAVES ALL AROUND US WERE
POINTED ROCKS-- SOME SMALL, SOME
MEDIUM-SIZED.
367
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:50,528
NO NAMES, NO ENGRAVING.
JUST PLAIN, ANONYMOUS MARKERS,
OF MANY, MANY LIVES.
WOW.
368
00:38:50,594 --> 00:38:54,065
THIS IS ASTONISHING.
>> Karen: IT IS.
>> Stahl: IT'S KIND OF
OVERWHELMING, ISN'T IT?
369
00:38:54,131 --> 00:38:59,036
>> Fred: IT IS.
>> Karen: IT IS.
IT REALLY IS.
I MEAN, WE ALL LIVE IN THE SAME
370
00:38:59,103 --> 00:39:04,642
AREA, WE COME PAST THIS PLACE,
AND WE WOULD NOT KNOW THAT OUR
ANCESTORS WERE RIGHT THERE
BESIDE US THE ENTIRE TIME.
371
00:39:04,709 --> 00:39:07,745
>> Stahl: FRED, IF YOU HADN'T
BOUGHT THAT HOUSE...
>> Karen: RIGHT.
YOU'RE RIGHT.
372
00:39:07,812 --> 00:39:11,515
>> Fred: IF I HADN'T BOUGHT THAT
HOUSE, WE'D NEVER KNOW.
>> Stahl: IT WOULD NEVER--
>> Karen: NEVER.
373
00:39:11,582 --> 00:39:19,423
>> Stahl: SO HOW HAS ALL OF THIS
AFFECTED YOU?
>> Fred: IT'S-- IT'S CHANGED ME.
IT'S DEFINITELY CHANGED ME.
374
00:39:19,490 --> 00:39:24,261
>> Stahl: YOU EVER ANGRY?
>> Fred: I GET A LITTLE-- LITTLE
BIT UPSET SOMETIMES, WHEN I FIND
OUT THINGS THAT I SHOULD HAVE
375
00:39:24,328 --> 00:39:29,567
KNOWN ALREADY.
>> Stahl: ANGRY AT YOURSELF?
>> Fred: AT MYSELF, AND AT THE
SYSTEM, BECAUSE I THINK THAT WE
376
00:39:29,633 --> 00:39:33,270
SHOULD HAVE KNOWN MORE.
>> Stahl: WHAT ABOUT THE SCHOOL
SYSTEM?
>> Fred: SHOULD HAVE KNOWN MORE.
377
00:39:33,337 --> 00:39:37,908
>> Stahl: FAMILY?
>> Fred: SHOULD HAVE KNOWN MORE,
ABSOLUTELY.
>> Stahl: YOU WANT THE STORY OF
378
00:39:37,975 --> 00:39:44,548
SLAVERY TOLD.
>> Fred: I WANT THE STORY OF
SLAVERY TOLD.
IT'S IMPORTANT.
379
00:39:44,615 --> 00:39:49,420
SO, THIS WAS CONVERTED FROM A
DOOR TO A WINDOW?
>> Pogue: YEAH, YEAH.
>> Stahl: FRED WANTS TO DO
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00:39:49,487 --> 00:39:54,425
WHATEVER'S NECESSARY TO PRESERVE
THE SLAVE HOUSE.
>> Pogue: YOU KNOW, THIS HAS
BEEN EXPOSED FOR, YOU KNOW, 200
381
00:39:54,492 --> 00:39:58,729
YEARS.
>> Fred: YEAH, RIGHT.
>> Stahl: HE'S IN THE PROCESS OF
SETTING UP A NON-PROFIT TO MAKE
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00:39:58,796 --> 00:40:02,299
THAT POSSIBLE.
>> Fred: THAT'S IMPORTANT TO ME
TOO, BECAUSE I KNOW A WHOLE LOT
OF EMPHASIS IS ON-- ON THAT BIG,
383
00:40:02,366 --> 00:40:05,202
WHITE HOUSE THERE.
>> Sanford: WELL, EXACTLY.
>> Fred: BUT THIS RIGHT HERE IS
REALLY NEAR AND DEAR--
384
00:40:05,269 --> 00:40:07,738
>> Sanford: WELL, THIS IS THE
STORY--
>> Fred: --TO ME, RIGHT.
YEAH, THIS IS THE STORY, RIGHT
385
00:40:07,805 --> 00:40:10,975
HERE.
>> Sanford: THIS IS-- THIS IS
YOUR FAMILY'S STORY--
>> Fred: YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.
386
00:40:11,041 --> 00:40:15,646
ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE,
SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT.
THERE'S EIGHT RIGHT HERE.
>> Stahl: AND HE'S BEEN THINKING
387
00:40:15,713 --> 00:40:22,953
ABOUT THE CEMETERY, TOO.
>> Fred: I CAN IMAGINE THIS
BEING SOMEONE YOUNG.
>> Karen: WE HAVE TO DO
388
00:40:23,020 --> 00:40:31,428
SOMETHING ABOUT THIS.
>> Fred: YEAH, HAVE TO.
AND I WILL.
I'M GOING TO FIX IT.
389
00:40:31,495 --> 00:40:37,668
>> Stahl: DO YOU THINK YOU MIGHT
ALLOW HISTORIANS TO COME AND--
>> Fred: ABSOLUTELY.
ABSOL-- THIS PLACE WILL BE OPEN
390
00:40:37,735 --> 00:40:47,711
TO ANYONE WHO WANTS TO LEARN.
>> Stahl: ANYONE?
>> Fred: ANYONE CAN COME HERE.
>> Stahl: BUT FOR NOW, SHARSWOOD
391
00:40:47,778 --> 00:40:59,690
IS SERVING THE PURPOSE FRED
BOUGHT IT FOR IN THE FIRST
PLACE-- GATHERING THE MILLER
FAMILY TOGETHER IN CELEBRATION.
392
00:40:59,757 --> 00:41:07,565
♪ HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU HAPPY
BIRTHDAY TO YOU ♪
♪ HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU HAPPY
BIRTHDAY TO YOU ♪
393
00:41:07,631 --> 00:41:14,505
>> Stahl: WHAT DO YOU THINK
VIOLET AND DAVID WOULD THINK IF
THEY COULD SEE THAT YOU OWN THIS
PLACE?
394
00:41:14,572 --> 00:41:19,176
>> Fred: YEAH, I'M HOPING-- I'M
HOPING THEY WOULD BE PROUD OF
US.
AND I THINK THEY WOULD BE.
395
00:41:19,243 --> 00:41:23,747
THEY ENDURED A LOT.
I MEAN, I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE
WHAT THEY WENT THROUGH.
LOOKING DOWN ON US NOW, THEY
396
00:41:23,814 --> 00:41:38,329
MUST BE SMILING AT US.
♪ HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU ♪
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )
( TICKING )
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00:41:40,531 --> 00:41:48,138
>> Stahl: IN THE MAIL THIS WEEK:
VIEWERS COMMENTED ON LAST
SUNDAY'S STORY ABOUT THE IMPACT
OF THE PANDEMIC ON THE MENTAL
398
00:41:48,205 --> 00:41:56,480
HEALTH OF YOUNG PEOPLE.
SHARYN ALFONSI'S INTERVIEW WITH
11-YEAR-OLD AUSTIN BRUENGER DREW
PARTICULAR ATTENTION.
399
00:41:56,547 --> 00:42:04,822
"I WAS SO MOVED BY THE YOUNG
MAN'S INSIGHT, VULNERABILITY,
AND BRAVERY THIS EVENING.
WHAT A BEAUTIFUL BOY."
400
00:42:04,889 --> 00:42:12,563
"DESPITE HIS DEPRESSION, AUSTIN
IS AN ASTUTE AND MATURE BOY WHO,
THROUGH HIS COURAGEOUS COMING
FORWARD, WILL INSTILL THE
401
00:42:12,630 --> 00:42:20,571
RESOLVE FOR OTHER YOUNG PEOPLE
TO SEEK HELP."
AND, THERE WAS THIS FROM A NEW
JERSEY VIEWER: "I SIMPLY WANT TO
402
00:42:20,638 --> 00:42:26,577
SAY THANK YOU TO AUSTIN AND ALL
OF THE YOUNG PEOPLE IN YOUR
STORY.
THEY ARE SAVING LIVES BY TALKING
403
00:42:26,644 --> 00:42:38,822
ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES."
I'M LESLEY STAHL.
WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK WITH
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00:42:42,493 --> 00:42:48,999
Captioning funded by CBS
and FORD.
We go further, so you can.
Captioned by
405
00:42:49,066 --> 00:42:54,972
Media Access Group at WGBH
access.wgbh.org