1 00:00:12,412 --> 00:00:21,187 >>> HOW CLOSE IS THE WORLD TO WITNESSING A WAR BETWEEN CHINA AND TAIWAN? WE WENT TO THE ISLAND OF 23 2 00:00:21,254 --> 00:00:32,332 MILLION TO SEE FOR OURSELVES. WE FOUND THE TAIWANESE CALM. SOME SAY TOO CALM, GIVEN CHINA'S AGGRESSIVENESS MILITARILY AND -- 3 00:00:32,399 --> 00:00:38,271 >> THAT'S TAIWAN. >> SO YOU'RE DESIGNATING WHERE THEY'RE ATTACKING, THOSE CIRCLES? 4 00:00:38,338 --> 00:00:45,678 >> CORRECT. >> IT'S BEEN 11 DAYS SINCE HURRICANE IAN CUT ACROSS FLORIDA, CAUSING STAGGERING LOSS 5 00:00:45,745 --> 00:00:53,953 OF LIFE AND PROPERTY. WE WENT THERE AND SAW IT ALL. AND THEN WE SAW SOMETHING WE WEREN'T EXPECTING. 6 00:00:54,020 --> 00:01:02,028 >> AND THE ONLY DAMAGE WERE A FEW DOWNED TREES AND A FEW SHINGLES OFF THE ROOFS. >> THAT'S IT? 7 00:01:02,095 --> 00:01:11,304 >> THAT'S IT. AND MAYBE THINGS ON THE BACK OF THE HOUSE, BUT THAT WAS IT. >> IN JESUS' NAME WE PRAY, AMEN. 8 00:01:11,371 --> 00:01:19,179 >> BART MAY BE A SMALL-TOWN PASTOR, BUT HE'S ALSO THE PRESIDENT OF THE LARGEST AND MOST INFLUENTIAL EVANGELICAL 9 00:01:19,245 --> 00:01:26,753 CHURCH IN THE COUNTRY, THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION, WE HAD A SURPRISING WIDE-RANGING INTERVIEW. 10 00:01:26,820 --> 00:01:31,124 >> DO YOU BELIEVE THE 2020 ELECTION WAS STOLEN? >> NO. >> YOU BELIEVE JOE BIDEN IS THE 11 00:01:31,191 --> 00:01:36,196 LEGITIMATE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES? >> I DO, ABSOLUTELY. >> I'M LESLEY STAHL. 12 00:01:36,262 --> 00:01:53,446 >> I'M BILL WHITAKER. >> I'M ANDERSON COOPER. >> THOSE STORIES AND MORE TONIGHT ON "60 MINUTES." 13 00:01:53,513 --> 00:02:04,290 >>> EVER SINCE MAO TSE TUNG WON CHINA'S CIVIL WAR IN 1949 AND THE LOSING ANTICOMMUNIST SIDE FLED TO A SMALL, NEARBY ISLAND, 14 00:02:04,357 --> 00:02:13,933 BEIJING HAS INSISTED THAT THAT ISLAND, TAIWAN, IS AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE MAINLAND. THE U.S. HAS WALKED A TIGHTROPE, 15 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:19,572 RESPECTING THAT "ONE CHINA" POLICY, BUT MAINTAINING A SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP WITH TAIWAN, TODAY A PROGRESSIVE, 16 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:29,115 THRIVING DEMOCRACY. IN SEPTEMBER, PRESIDENT BIDEN VOWED ON THIS BROADCAST THAT THE U.S. WILL PROTECT TAIWAN. 17 00:02:29,182 --> 00:02:38,625 THIS PAST WEEK, THE TAIWANESE GOVERNMENT SAID CHINA AIMS TO NORMALIZE ITS MILITARY PRESSURE ON THE ISLAND, THAT ESCALATED 18 00:02:38,691 --> 00:02:51,538 AFTER HOUSE SPEAKER NANCY PELOSI VISITED IN AUGUST WITH ITS LARGEST MILITARY DRILL EVER. >> IN A DISPLAY OF FRIGHTENING 19 00:02:51,604 --> 00:03:01,014 MILITARY MIGHT, CHINA SUBJECTED TAIWAN TO THREE DAYS OF CONTINUOUS SORTIES -- WITH OVER 100 WARPLANES, A BARRAGE OF 20 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:10,123 BALLISTIC MISSILES AND WARSHIPS THAT ENCIRCLED THE ISLAND, DELIVERING A LOUD AND CLEAR MESSAGE, THAT CHINA COULD CHOKE 21 00:03:10,189 --> 00:03:17,497 TAIWAN ANY TIME IT WANTED TO. >> YOU THINK THEY'RE GOING TO INVADE? >> THIS IS NOT A MATTER OF IF 22 00:03:17,564 --> 00:03:26,539 THEY WILL INVADE, IT'S A MATTER OF WHEN THEY WILL INVADE. >> ADMIRAL LEE HSI-MIN, WHO USED TO HEAD TAIWAN'S ARMED FORCES, 23 00:03:26,606 --> 00:03:35,582 HAS BEEN RINGING ALARM BELLS FOR YEARS, BECAUSE AS CHINA'S MILITARY HAS BEEN GROWING, TAIWAN'S IS SHRINKING. 24 00:03:35,648 --> 00:03:46,125 THE NUMBER OF SOLDIERS IN UNIFORM HAS BEEN CUT IN HALF OVER THE YEARS, THE LENGTH OF MANDATORY SERVICE HAS BEEN 25 00:03:46,192 --> 00:03:53,533 REDUCED TO JUST FOUR MONTHS, AND ADMIRAL LEE COMPLAINS THAT THE WRONG WEAPONS FOR YEARS: TANKS AND JETS FROM THE UNITED STATES 26 00:03:53,600 --> 00:04:03,676 INSTEAD OF SMALLER PORTABLE MISSILES. >> WHAT I GATHER YOU THINK THE MILITARY NEEDS ARE THESE 27 00:04:03,743 --> 00:04:09,482 STINGERS AND JAVELINS AND DRONES, EXACTLY WHAT THEY NEED IN UKRAINE. >> YEAH, IT'S THE TRUTH. 28 00:04:09,549 --> 00:04:16,255 >> AND YOU'RE NOT GETTING THEM NOW BECAUSE THEY'RE GIVING THEM TO UKRAINE? WE ALREADY ORDERED IT. 29 00:04:16,322 --> 00:04:20,627 IN MY VIEW, NOT ENOUGH. BUT, HOWEVER, WE BEGAN TO ORDER THEM. BUT WE HAVE NOT YET RECEIVED 30 00:04:20,693 --> 00:04:27,667 ANY. BECAUSE OTHER COUNTRIES ALSO HAVE KIND OF SIMILAR REQUIREMENTS. 31 00:04:27,734 --> 00:04:36,409 WE ARE NOT ON THE TOP LIST. BUT WE NEED NOW, WE NEED NOW. >> DID THE TAIWANESE MILITARY WASTE ALL THOSE YEARS BUYING 32 00:04:36,476 --> 00:04:46,185 THOSE BIG WEAPONS? >> I BELIEVE SO, YOU KNOW, BUT WE DON'T HAVE TIME TO WASTE ANYMORE. 33 00:04:46,252 --> 00:04:52,058 >> TAIWAN DOESN'T GET U.S. MILITARY AID, IT BUYS THE WEAPONS. BUT THE MANUFACTURERS CAN'T KEEP 34 00:04:52,125 --> 00:04:59,666 UP WITH THE DEMAND. THE TAIWANESE HAVE ALREADY PURCHASED ABOUT $14 BILLION WORTH OF WEAPONS THAT THEY HAVE 35 00:04:59,732 --> 00:05:07,373 YET TO RECEIVE. WE WERE SURPRISED THAT FEW HERE SEEM TO SHARE THE ADMIRAL'S SENSE OF URGENCY. 36 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:15,815 >> HERE IN TAIWAN, YOU'D NEVER KNOW THAT THE DRAGON TO THE NORTH RECENTLY SENT WARSHIPS TO SURROUND THE ISLAND. 37 00:05:15,882 --> 00:05:22,722 PEOPLE TOLD US OVER AND OVER "NO BIG DEAL." CHINA'S BEEN DOING VERSIONS OF THAT FOR 70 YEARS. 38 00:05:22,789 --> 00:05:31,731 WHILE MUCH OF THE WORLD THOUGHT AN INVASION WAS IMMINENT, POLLS SHOWED THAT A MAJORITY OF TAIWANESE THINK THAT'S UNLIKELY 39 00:05:31,798 --> 00:05:37,637 ANY TIME SOON, IF EVER. AND THAT'S REFLECTED IN WHAT WE SAW IN THE CAPITAL, TAIPEI, WHERE LIFE GOES ON 40 00:05:37,704 --> 00:05:47,714 UNINTERRUPTED. MORNING TRAFFIC FLOWS NORMALLY. SHOPPERS DO WHAT THEY ALWAYS DO, DURING THE DAY, AND AT NIGHT. 41 00:05:47,780 --> 00:05:57,256 WE SAW OLD PEOPLE PAINTING OUTDOORS, AND TEENAGERS PRACTICING HIP-HOP ROUTINES, DESPITE THE THREAT FROM THE 42 00:05:57,323 --> 00:06:03,696 NORTH. >> THIS KIND OF THREAT IS OUR DAILY LIFE. >> WANG TING-YU, A 43 00:06:03,763 --> 00:06:12,739 PARLIAMENTARIAN FROM SOUTHERN TAIWAN, SAYS A KIND OF WAR HAS ALREADY STARTED. >> CHINA, THEY TRY TO ANNEX 44 00:06:12,805 --> 00:06:20,446 TAIWAN FOR PAST 50 YEARS. THEY TRY ALL DIFFERENT KIND OF WAY. MAYBE I CAN GIVE YOU VERY 45 00:06:20,513 --> 00:06:27,553 CONCRETE FIGURES -- THERE ARE 20 MILLION CYBERATTACKS PER DAY. >> PER DAY? >> YES, EVERY DAY. 46 00:06:27,620 --> 00:06:35,495 >> WANG, WHO SITS ON PARLIAMENT'S FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND NATIONAL DEFENSE COMMITTEE, TOOK US TO A HIGH-SECURITY LAB WHERE 47 00:06:35,561 --> 00:06:42,902 ENGINEERS TRACK THOSE ATTACKS. >> THIS IS TAIWAN HERE. >> AH, OKAY. >> A SMALL ISLAND. 48 00:06:42,969 --> 00:06:48,708 BUT WE ARE PROUD OF IT. THE MAP SHOWS THE ATTACKS FROM CHINA IN REALTIME AS THEY HIT TAIWAN. 49 00:06:48,775 --> 00:06:54,514 >> IT'S SO CLOSE TO CHINA. >> YEAH, UNFORTUNATELY. >> SO IS CHINA HOPING TO DEFEAT TAIWAN WITHOUT FIRING A SINGLE 50 00:06:54,580 --> 00:07:02,555 SHOT? >> THEY DREAM LIKE THAT. >> "THEY DREAM." >> THEY DESPERATELY DREAM LIKE 51 00:07:02,622 --> 00:07:09,428 THAT. HE SAYS ON TOP OF CYBER WARFARE, THEY'RE TRYING TO SABOTAGE TAIWAN'S THRIVING ECONOMY AND 52 00:07:09,495 --> 00:07:17,303 INTIMIDATE POLITICALLY-POWERFUL GROUPS, LIKE THE FARMERS AND FISHERMEN IN WANG'S HOME DISTRICT OF TAINAN, WHO'VE BEEN 53 00:07:17,370 --> 00:07:28,414 HIT ESPECIALLY HARD WITH A SERIES OF EXPORT BANS. >> WHEN SPEAKER PELOSI WAS HERE, CHINA, WE'RE TOLD, BANNED 1,000 54 00:07:28,481 --> 00:07:36,856 PRODUCTS, TAIWANESE PRODUCTS, A LOT FROM YOUR REGION DOWN HERE. >> IT DO HURT, DO DAMAGE TO SOME INDIVIDUAL BUSINESSES. 55 00:07:36,923 --> 00:07:45,832 >> LIKE THE FISH INDUSTRY. >> IS THERE ANY GROUPER HERE? >> 90% OF GROUPER EXPORTS WENT TO CHINA LAST YEAR. 56 00:07:45,898 --> 00:07:53,739 BUT SUDDENLY IN JUNE BEIJING BANNED TAIWAN'S GROUPER, DEVASTATING THE FISHERMEN. BOXES AND BOXES OF FISH PILED 57 00:07:53,806 --> 00:08:02,348 UP. CHINA ALSO WENT AFTER PINEAPPLES, CRUSHING FARMERS LIKE THIS YOUNG COUPLE. 58 00:08:02,415 --> 00:08:10,456 >> Translator: IT DEVASTATED US. OUR PINEAPPLES GOT STUCK IN TAIWAN, AND WE LOST 60,000 U.S. DOLLARS. 59 00:08:10,523 --> 00:08:18,698 >> AND I UNDERSTAND THE BAN WAS SUDDEN, LIKE THAT, NO WARNING. >> NO WARNING. >> THE GOVERNMENT FOUGHT BACK 60 00:08:18,764 --> 00:08:23,936 WITH A "FREEDOM PINEAPPLE" CAMPAIGN TO ENTICE EVERYONE TO BUY, AND EAT A LOT OF PINEAPPLES. 61 00:08:24,003 --> 00:08:31,944 >> OH, MY GOSH, IT'S SO SWEET. >> OUR HOUSEWIVES, THEY HAVE A VOICE, "LET'S EAT PINEAPPLE ON OUR DINING TABLES." 62 00:08:32,011 --> 00:08:37,750 >> EVERYBODY'S EATING PINEAPPLE. >> MILITARY, THEY HAVE LUNCH, THEY HAVE DINNER, PROVIDE PINEAPPLES. 63 00:08:37,817 --> 00:08:47,793 >> WE FOUND A FAIRLY PROSPEROUS COUNTRY, A LEADING EXPORTER OF BICYCLES AND OTHER SPORTS GEAR. THIS TINY ISLAND IS A TECH GIANT 64 00:08:47,860 --> 00:08:55,935 IN AGRICULTURE INNOVATION. AND, ABOVE ALL, IN SEMICONDUCTORS. TAIWAN IS PRACTICALLY THE 65 00:08:56,002 --> 00:09:06,913 WORLD'S ONLY SOURCE OF THE THINNEST MICRO CHIPS, MANUFACTURED ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY BY ONE COMPANY, TSMC. 66 00:09:06,979 --> 00:09:16,022 CHINA RELIES ON THESE AS DOES THE REST OF THE WORLD FOR THINGS LIKE iPHONES, ADVANCE COMPUTERS, AND CAR COMPONENTS. 67 00:09:16,088 --> 00:09:23,129 91-YEAR-OLD MORRIS CHANG, TSMC'S FOUNDER, EXPLAINS WHY A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE THINK THE CHIPS PROTECT THEM FROM XI JINPING'S 68 00:09:23,195 --> 00:09:37,710 ATTACKING. >> I'VE HEARD THIS EXPRESSION, SILICON SHIELD OR CHIP SHIELD, TALKING ABOUT YOUR COMPANY. 69 00:09:37,777 --> 00:09:44,216 >> WELL, IT MEANS THAT PERHAPS BECAUSE OUR COMPANY PROVIDES A LOT OF CHIPS TO THE WORLD MAYBE SOMEBODY WILL REFRAIN FROM 70 00:09:44,283 --> 00:09:54,260 ATTACKING IT. IF THAT PERSON'S PRIORITY IS FOR ECONOMIC WELL-BEING, I THINK THEY WILL REFRAIN FROM 71 00:09:54,327 --> 00:10:04,103 ATTACKING. >> WHAT IF THE PRIORITY IS TO COME HERE AND NATIONALIZE YOUR COMPANY WITHIN, YOU KNOW, ONE 72 00:10:04,170 --> 00:10:12,011 CHINA? >> IF THERE'S A WAR, I MEAN, IT WOULD BE DESTROYED. EVERYTHING WILL BE DESTROYED. 73 00:10:12,078 --> 00:10:20,019 CHINA SAYS -- SOME OF THE CHINESE COMMUNISTS SAY, LET'S INVADE TAIWAN AND OCCUPY TSMC, MAKE IT BECOME PARTY-OWNED 74 00:10:20,086 --> 00:10:26,993 COMPANY. THEN WE WILL BE A SUPER POWER! UNITED STATES AND JAPAN AND EUROPE, WE DON'T SUPPLY THEM 75 00:10:27,059 --> 00:10:35,334 CHIPS, THEY WILL FOLLOW CHINESE ORDERS. BUT THAT'S NAIVE. >> WHY IS THAT NAIVE? 76 00:10:35,401 --> 00:10:43,809 >> NOT ONLY CHIP COMPANY, EVEN A SAUSAGE COMPANY, YOU NEED A RECIPE. YOU NEED HUMAN CAPITAL. 77 00:10:43,876 --> 00:10:49,648 YOU NEED TO KNOW HOW TO MANUFACTURE, MANUFACTURING THAT KIND OF PRODUCT. IF THERE IS REUNIFICATION, WHAT 78 00:10:49,715 --> 00:10:58,190 WOULD HAPPEN TO YOU? >> DIE. >> DIE? >> YEAH. 79 00:10:58,257 --> 00:11:03,562 IF THEY ANNEX TAIWAN, PEOPLE LIKE ME, A LOT, WILL BE PERISHED. >> BEIJING HAS SANCTIONED WANG 80 00:11:03,629 --> 00:11:12,071 TING-YU PERSONALLY FOR BEING OUTSPOKENLY PRO-TAIWAN'S INDEPENDENCE. HE PASSIONATELY DEFENDS THE 81 00:11:12,138 --> 00:11:19,045 COUNTRY'S PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRACY. WE SAW CAMPAIGN BILLBOARDS EVERYWHERE, VALIDATING THE ISLAND'S COMMITMENT TO CLEAN 82 00:11:19,111 --> 00:11:27,319 ELECTIONS AND FREEDOM OF SPEECH. BEIJING HAS PROMISED THAT IF THERE WERE REUNIFICATION, TAIWAN COULD MAINTAIN MANY OF ITS 83 00:11:27,386 --> 00:11:39,432 FREEDOMS. AND YET -- IN 2019, CHINA BROKE A SIMILAR PROMISE TO HONG KONG, PROTESTS 84 00:11:39,498 --> 00:11:47,907 LED TO BEATINGS, ARRESTS AND STRIPPING OF DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS. IT HIT HOME IN TAIWAN AND LED TO PRESIDENT TSAI ING-WEN, LEADER 85 00:11:47,973 --> 00:12:01,587 OF THE AGGRESSIVELY ANTI-REUNIFICATION PARTY, WINNING RE-ELECTION IN A LANDSLIDE. 86 00:12:01,654 --> 00:12:09,095 >> WE DEFEND OUR FREEDOM, DEMOCRACY, AND WAY OF LIFE. >> GIVEN WHAT HAPPENED IN HONG KONG AND THE RECENT MILITARY 87 00:12:09,161 --> 00:12:21,006 ESCALATION, WE WERE CURIOUS WHY THE PEOPLE ARE SO STOIC. ASKED IF THEY'RE IN DENIAL OR APATHETIC, A TAIWANESE WRITER 88 00:12:21,073 --> 00:12:35,387 SAID IT'S KIND OF LIKE GLOBAL WARMING, YOU KNOW IT'S THEIRS AND IT'S GOING TO GET WORSE, BUT MOSTLY PEOPLE GO ABOUT THEIR 89 00:12:35,454 --> 00:12:39,959 LIVES. WHAT CAN ONE INDIVIDUAL REALLY DO? BUT THEN THE TAIWANESE WATCHED 90 00:12:40,025 --> 00:12:48,467 THE UKRAINIANS STAND UP TO THE RUSSIANS. IT SO INSPIRED JACK YAO, A YOUNG TAIPEI COFFEE VENDOR, THAT HE 91 00:12:48,534 --> 00:12:57,176 WENT THERE TO HELP THE FIGHT. DID YOU GO BECAUS YOU'RE TAIWANESE? >> YEAH, BECAUSE -- 92 00:12:57,243 --> 00:13:03,782 >> WHAT'S THE CONNECTION? >> JUST, LIKE, IN THE UKRAINE SITUATION AND OUR SITUATION, IT'S VERY ALIKE. 93 00:13:03,849 --> 00:13:11,524 THEY ALSO HAVE BIG NEIGHBORS. AND THEY WAS THE COMMUNISTS. AND WE HAVE TO FACE THE CHINA COMMUNISTS. 94 00:13:11,590 --> 00:13:22,101 AND THEN THEY WANT TO ATTACK US. THEY ALWAYS WANT TO ATTACK US. >> WAS IT IN YOUR MIND THAT IF YOU GO TO FIGHT FOR UKRAINE, 95 00:13:22,168 --> 00:13:28,941 OTHER PEOPLE WILL COME HERE AND FIGHT FOR TAIWAN -- >> YES, YEAH! >> WHAT THE UKRAINIANS HAVE DONE 96 00:13:29,008 --> 00:13:35,581 IS RAISING A QUESTION HERE IN TAIWAN. IF THAT SMALL DEMOCRACY CAN STAND UP TO ITS MENACING 97 00:13:35,648 --> 00:13:43,055 NEIGHBOR, WHY CAN'T WE, YOU SEE CIVIL DEFENSE CLASSES SPROUTING UP, LIKE THIS ONE ON HOW TO IDENTIFY CHINESE FAKE NEWS 98 00:13:43,122 --> 00:13:53,732 DURING AN ATTACK. AND THIS NIGHT CLASS IN THE PARK ON HOW TO OPERATE TWO-WAY RADIOS IN MORSE CODE IN CASE THE 99 00:13:53,799 --> 00:13:59,271 INTERNET IS KNOCKED OUT. >> WE WANT OUR STUDENTS TO BE ABLE TO APPLY A TOURNIQUET WITHIN 30 SECONDS. 100 00:13:59,338 --> 00:14:09,215 >> ENOCH WU, A FORMER SPECIAL FORCES SOLDIER, IS RUNNING TRAINING WORKSHOPS IN HOW TO TREAT BULLET AND SHRAPNEL WOUNDS 101 00:14:09,281 --> 00:14:17,289 AND CONDUCT SEARCH AND RESCUE. AND ADMIRAL LEE WANTS TO TAKE IT A STEP FURTHER, CALLING ON THE GOVERNMENT TO ARM TAIWAN'S 102 00:14:17,356 --> 00:14:22,628 CITIZENS AND CREATE A VOLUNTEER FORCE LIKE UKRAINE'S. >> IF UKRAINE CAN DO THAT, WHY NOT TAIWAN? 103 00:14:22,695 --> 00:14:31,036 YOU KNOW, I'M TRYING TO CONVINCE MORE PEOPLE THAT IT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE THIS IS A SYMBOL OF THE DETERRENCE. 104 00:14:31,103 --> 00:14:36,308 DETERMINATION. SO YOU'RE PROMISING WHAT, I GUESS I WOULD CALL, THE UKRAINE MDEL. 105 00:14:36,375 --> 00:14:40,312 >> SIMILAR. UKRAINE PEOPLE REALLY INSPIRE OUR PEOPLE. BUT DO OUR PEOPLE CHANGE FAST 106 00:14:40,379 --> 00:14:46,051 ENOUGH? I DON'T THINK SO. >> DO YOU THINK THAT TAIWANESE HAVE THAT SAME KIND OF 107 00:14:46,118 --> 00:14:51,223 DETERMINATION? >> I STRONGLY BELIEVE THIS. BECAUSE WE CHERISH HOW WE LIVE. WE LOVE PEACE, WE DON'T LIKE 108 00:14:51,290 --> 00:14:59,898 WAR, BUT WE WON'T CEDE OUR DEMOCRACY, OUR LIFE FOR PEACE. THAT'S SURRENDER. >> IS THERE A CHANCE YOU'LL 109 00:14:59,965 --> 00:15:10,209 SERNDER? >> NO, NOT A CHANCE, NEVER. >> TAIWAN'S DIGITAL THREAT FROM CHINA -- 110 00:15:10,276 --> 00:15:25,591 >> IS TAIWAN ALREADY AT CYBER WAR WITH CHINA? >> ESSENTIALLY, >>> IT'S BEEN 11 DAYS SINCE 111 00:15:25,658 --> 00:15:32,631 HURRICANE IAN, A CATEGORY 4 MONSTER OF A STORM, CUT ACROSS CENTRAL FLORIDA. EVEN IN A STATE THAT'S NO 112 00:15:32,698 --> 00:15:40,806 STRANGER TO HURRICANES, THE DESTRUCTION IN THE WAKE OF IAN IS STAGGERING, MORE THAN 100 DEATHS, MOST BY DROWNING, 113 00:15:40,873 --> 00:15:51,483 COMMUNITIES IN TATTERS, THE PRICE TAG FOR RECOVERY ESTIMATED AT MORE THAN $100 BILLION. WE WENT TO GROUND ZERO ON 114 00:15:51,550 --> 00:16:03,862 FLORIDA'S SOUTHWEST COAST WHERE IAN FIRST ROARED ASHORE AND WHERE THE HURRICANE'S FURY WAS MOST SEVERE. 115 00:16:03,929 --> 00:16:16,408 AS HURRICANE IAN'S VIOLENCE BORE DOWN ON SANIBEL ISLAND, THE SPRECHER FAMILY FLED WITH LITTLE MORE THAN THE CLOTHES ON THEIR 116 00:16:16,475 --> 00:16:23,215 BACKS. THIS PAST WEDNESDAY, ONE WEEK AFTER THE TEMPEST LAID WASTE TO THE ISLAND, THE FAMILY WENT BACK 117 00:16:23,282 --> 00:16:29,054 TO SEE WHAT WAS LEFT OF THE PLACE THEY HAD CALLED HOME FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS. >> WHERE ARE WE? 118 00:16:29,121 --> 00:16:39,264 I CAN'T EVEN TELL. >> IAN SEVERED THE CAUSEWAY THAT CONNECTS SANIBEL TO THE MAINLAND, SO THE SPRECHERS 119 00:16:39,331 --> 00:16:48,140 RETURNED BY BOAT. >> YOU WOULDN'T EVEN KNOW THIS IS HOME. >> WE WERE INVITED TO GO HOME 120 00:16:48,207 --> 00:16:58,283 WITH THEM TO SEE THE DAMAGE DONE WHEN THE CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE PLOWED INTO FLORIDA. JOHN SPRECHER TOLD US THE 121 00:16:58,350 --> 00:17:03,889 DESTRUCTION WAS OVERWHELMING. >> THIS PLACE LOOKS LIKE IT'S BEEN BOMBED OUT. AND I, YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER OUR 122 00:17:03,956 --> 00:17:18,370 KIDS PLAYING IN THE SAND WHEN THEY WERE A COUPLE YEARS OLD. >> MILISSA TOLD US SHE HAD TROUBLE GETTING HER BEARINGS. 123 00:17:18,437 --> 00:17:24,743 >> THERE'S NO BRIDGE, THERE'S NO FERRY RIGHT NOW. THERE'S NOWHERE TO STAY, THERE'S NO RUNNING WATER, THERE'S NO 124 00:17:24,810 --> 00:17:29,281 ELECTRICITY, THERE'S NO AIR-CONDITIONING, THERE'S NOTHING. EVERYBODY ON THIS ISLAND AT THIS 125 00:17:29,348 --> 00:17:38,056 MOMENT IS HOMELESS. >> THEIR HOUSE IS JUST A BLOCK FROM THE BEACH, USUALLY A FEW MINUTE WALK, THEY SAID, BUT NOT 126 00:17:38,123 --> 00:17:44,797 THIS DAY. THE PATH WAS COVERED WITH THICK, TACKY MUD. >> WATCH THE MUD BECAUSE YOU'RE 127 00:17:44,863 --> 00:17:53,939 GOING TO -- IT'S VERY SLICK. >> 6,500 PEOPLE LIVE ON SANIBEL. THE PLACE THE SPRECHERS DESCRIBED AS A TROPICAL PARADISE 128 00:17:54,006 --> 00:18:02,214 NOW IS A DEBRIS FIELD. CARS TOSSED LIKE TOYS BY THE STORM SURGE, IT STRIPPED THE ASPHALT OFF THEIR ROAD. 129 00:18:02,281 --> 00:18:11,323 >> THIS WAS PAVED? >> THIS WAS PAVED. >> AS THEY APPROACHED THE HOUSE, THE SCENE WAS SURREAL. 130 00:18:11,390 --> 00:18:18,964 A BEAUTIFUL FLORIDA DAY, THE KIND THAT DREW JOHN AND MILISSA HERE FROM WISCONSIN YEARS AGO, WHILE THE HOME AND LIFE THEY 131 00:18:19,031 --> 00:18:25,771 BUILT LAY BATTERED UNDER THE SUN. >> I'M SHOCKED. >> THEY HAD HELD POOL PARTIES IN 132 00:18:25,838 --> 00:18:34,513 THIS YARD, CELEBRATED BIRTHDAYS AND GRADUATIONS IN THESE ROOMS. NOW WITH THE ROOF GONE, EXPOSING THE ACCUMULATIONS OF A LIFETIME 133 00:18:34,580 --> 00:18:43,055 TO THE ELEMENTS, THEY ARE SALVAGING WHAT MEMORIES THEY CAN TAKE ON A SMALL BOAT. >> GRANDMA AND GRANDPA PHOTOS. 134 00:18:43,121 --> 00:18:52,531 >> TO BE ABLE TO HAVE PHOTOS AND TINGS THAT THE KIDS HAVE MADE AND BE ABLE TO TAKE THEM, THAT'S HUGE. 135 00:18:52,598 --> 00:19:00,405 >> YEAH. >> I'M FLOORED THAT WE HAVE ANYTHING, ANYTHING. >> HAVE YOU BEEN IN TOUCH WITH 136 00:19:00,472 --> 00:19:05,143 YOUR INSURANCE? >> WE HAVE, YEAH. >> WILL YOU BE ABLE TO BUILD BACK WHAT YOU LOST? 137 00:19:05,210 --> 00:19:10,849 >> I DON'T KNOW. >> WE DON'T EVEN KNOW AND WE WANT TO, HONESTLY. >> I WOULD THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE 138 00:19:10,916 --> 00:19:16,054 WOULD BE LEAVING THIS. >> ARE THE PHONES RINGING OFF THE HOOK? >> MONDAY MORNING WE WERE 139 00:19:16,121 --> 00:19:25,697 GETTING ABOUT 15 CALLS A MINUTE. >> BRIAN CHAPMAN OWNS CHAPMAN INSURANCE GROUP, ONE OF THE LARGEST INDEPENDENT INSURANCE 140 00:19:25,764 --> 00:19:32,871 AGENCIES IN SOUTHWEST FLORIDA, WITH ABOUT 30,000 CUSTOMERS, MANY WHO LIVE ON SANIBEL ISLAND AND IN HARD-HIT FORT MYERS. 141 00:19:32,938 --> 00:19:40,846 SEVEN OF HIS EMPLOYEES LOST HOMES, HIS OFFICES SUFFERED WATER DAMAGE AND LOST POWER. WITH THIS HURRICANE, YOU HAD 142 00:19:40,913 --> 00:19:50,722 WINDS GUSTING UP TO 150 MILES AN HOUR. YOU HAD A MASSIVE STORM SURGE. HOW DO THOSE TWO ARMS OF THIS 143 00:19:50,789 --> 00:19:58,463 HURRICANE IMPACT THE REIMBURSEMENTS THAT YOUR HOMEOWNERS ARE GOING TO GET? >> THAT'S WHERE IT GETS A LITTLE 144 00:19:58,530 --> 00:20:04,403 COMPLICATED BECAUSE YOU HAVE TWO POLICIES, ONE FOR FLOOD AND ONE FOR WIND. >> WHY IS THAT SO COMPLICATED? 145 00:20:04,469 --> 00:20:12,611 >> WELL, DID THE WIND DAMAGE HAPPEN FIRST OR THE WATER RISE? AND WAS THERE WIND DAMAGE BEFORE IT FLOODED? 146 00:20:12,678 --> 00:20:21,386 AND IT'S HARD TO KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION. >> EXFR JUST 18% OF FLORIDA HOMEOWNERS HAVE FLOOD INSURANCE. 147 00:20:21,453 --> 00:20:35,701 SO WHY SO FEW? >> BECAUSE IT'S EXPENSIVE. BUT NOT AS EXPENSIVE AS WHAT JUST HAPPENED. 148 00:20:35,767 --> 00:20:43,075 >> CHAPMAN SAYS HE FEARS IAN WILL ONLY EXACERBATE A PERSISTENT PROBLEM IN FLORIDA'S INSURANCE MARKET. 149 00:20:43,141 --> 00:20:50,882 80% OF ALL HOMEOWNERS' INSURANCE LAWSUITS IN THE COUNTRY ARE FILED HERE. MOST BIG INSURERS HAVE SCALED 150 00:20:50,949 --> 00:20:58,357 WAY BACK, SMALL INSURERS ARE BEING SQUEEZED. SIX WENT OUT OF BUSINESS JUST THIS YEAR. 151 00:20:58,423 --> 00:21:06,431 WHAT HAS ALL OF THIS DONE TO PREMIUMS? >> DOUBLE-DIGIT, TRIPLE-DIGIT RATE INCREASES IN THE LAST 24 152 00:21:06,498 --> 00:21:15,907 MONTHS. MY POLICY WAS PERSONALLY $3,500, THEN $7,000, AND NOW $10,000. AND THAT'S NOT INCLUDING THE 153 00:21:15,974 --> 00:21:22,614 FLOOD INSURANCE. >> WHO CAN AFFORD THAT? >> IT'S NOT AFFORDABLE, IT'S NOT SUSTAINABLE. 154 00:21:22,681 --> 00:21:29,588 >> WE WERE ON SANIBEL ISLAND YESTERDAY AND THE DESTRUCTION IS WIDESPREAD. IF YOU'RE OUT THERE, WHAT HOPE 155 00:21:29,655 --> 00:21:33,659 DO YOU HAVE TO RECOVER FROM THIS? >> IT'S GOING TO BE A LONG ROAD TO RECOVERY. 156 00:21:33,725 --> 00:21:42,868 THE ONES THAT FOREGOED INSURANCE, I'M CERTAIN THAT THERE WILL BE SOME THAT WILL SELL THEIR REAL ESTATE OR THEIR 157 00:21:42,934 --> 00:21:49,174 LAND. >> ALL OF THIS WAS WROUGHT BY A HURRICANE THAT RAPIDLY SPUN ITSELF INTO AN ELECTRIFIED 158 00:21:49,241 --> 00:21:55,180 KILLER. ENERGIZED BY THE WARM WATERS OF THE GULF OF MEXICO, IAN TOOK JUST TWO DAYS TO GROW FROM A 159 00:21:55,247 --> 00:22:02,554 CATEGORY 1 TO A CATEGORY 4 STORM, PACKING 150-MILE-PER-HOUR WINDS AND STIRRING UP A STORM SURGE THAT DROWNED COASTAL 160 00:22:02,621 --> 00:22:12,364 COMMUNITIES IN 12 FEET OF WATER. THAT ONE-TWO PUNCH WAS COMPOUNDED BY CATASTROPHIC RAINS. 161 00:22:12,431 --> 00:22:21,840 THE STORM DUMPED MORE THAN 20 INCHES OVER CENTRAL FLORIDA, SWELLING RIVERS AND FLOODING NEIGHBORHOODS IN A SWATH THAT 162 00:22:21,907 --> 00:22:28,480 STRETCHED ACROSS THE STATE. YOU KNEW THIS WAS GOING TO BE A MONSTER? >> I DID. 163 00:22:28,547 --> 00:22:37,889 >> AS IAN APPROACHED, TAMPA NATIVE BOBBY QUINN, A FORMER AIR FORCE WEATHER FORECASTER, PRIVATE PILOT, AND TECH COMPANY 164 00:22:37,956 --> 00:22:45,697 FOUNDER, WANTED TO HELP. SO HE DROVE SOUTH INTO THE HEART OF THE HURRICANE. >> IT'S KIND OF HARD TO LEAVE 165 00:22:45,764 --> 00:22:51,503 THIS SPOT. >> AND GOT MORE THAN HE'D BARGAINED FOR. HE SHOT THIS VIDEO ON HIS PHONE. 166 00:22:51,570 --> 00:22:57,142 >> THERE WAS NO PLACE TO GO. THERE WERE TREES FLYING BY WHEN I WAS SITTING IN THE TRUCK, AND WIND THAT WOULD HAVE FLIPPED MY 167 00:22:57,209 --> 00:23:02,514 TRUCK IF I HAD MOVED OUT FROM BEHIND THAT WALL. I TRIED AT ONE POINT, AND THE WHEELS CAME OFF THE GROUND. 168 00:23:02,581 --> 00:23:10,188 >> AFTER 13 HARROWING HOURS, HE STARTED TO PUT HIS TALENTS TO WORK. QUINN RUNS A TAMPA-BASED TECH 169 00:23:10,255 --> 00:23:20,098 STARTUP CALLED PAYPIXL THAT CROWD-SOURCES DRONE IMAGERY AND ORGANIZES IT ON AN APP. WHEN IAN HIT, HE REPURPOSED HIS 170 00:23:20,165 --> 00:23:26,905 SITE SO EVACUEES COULD VIEW IMAGES OF THEIR HOMES AND ASSESS THE DAMAGE, FREE OF CHARGE. >> YOU SEE THE DEBRIS FIELD, YOU 171 00:23:26,972 --> 00:23:33,979 SEE THE DESTRUCTION IN THE BACK. NOW YOU CAN TURN OFF THE SATELLITE IMAGERY AND SEE THE PRE-EVENT. 172 00:23:34,045 --> 00:23:38,550 THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE BEFORE THE STORM. >> HOW ABOUT THAT? >> AND IF WE ADD IN OUR 173 00:23:38,617 --> 00:23:43,221 STREET-LEVEL IMAGERY, SOMEBODY CAN CLICK IN AND SEE WHAT THAT HOUSE LOOKS LIKE FROM THE FRONT AFTER THE STORM. 174 00:23:43,288 --> 00:23:49,828 >> OH, WOW. SO YOU'VE GOT THE WHOLE EVENT BEFORE, AFTER, GROUND LEVEL. >> THAT'S CORRECT. 175 00:23:49,895 --> 00:23:56,701 >> Announcer: AFTER POSTING SOME OF HIS WORK ON SOCIAL MEDIA, HE WAS INUNDATED WITH REQUESTS. MORE THAN 700 CAME FROM A 176 00:23:56,768 --> 00:24:07,445 DENSELY POPULATED, SPIRALING DEVELOPMENT 35 MILES NORTH OF SANIBEL CALLED ROTONDA WEST. >> THIS IS ROTONDA WEST. 177 00:24:07,512 --> 00:24:11,783 THIS IS THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND THE PINK DOTS THAT YOU SEE ARE EACH INDIVIDUAL IMAGE THAT WAS TAKEN IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. 178 00:24:11,850 --> 00:24:21,626 >> TO BUILD HIS DATABASE, QUINN INCORPORATED SATELLITE IMAGES WITH GROUND-LEVEL PICTURES HE TOOK DRIVING SPREADSHEET BY 179 00:24:21,693 --> 00:24:28,700 STREET. >> SO THAT HUGE CIRCLE THAT WE SAW, YOU WERE GOING DOWN EVERY CUL-DE-SAC, GOING UP AND DOWN, 180 00:24:28,767 --> 00:24:33,705 GETTING PICTURES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET? >> EVERY ROAD, EVERY HOUSE. >> HOW LONG DID THAT TAKE YOU? 181 00:24:33,772 --> 00:24:39,244 >> IT TOOK ME NINE HOURS, 117 MILES. >> AND HOW MANY PICTURES DID YOU END UP WITH? 182 00:24:39,311 --> 00:24:46,952 >> JUST OVER 8,000. >> HE FILMED INSIDE SOME HOUSES. >> OH, MAN. >> QUINN'S EFFORTS DIDN'T GO 183 00:24:47,018 --> 00:24:51,523 UNNOTICED. >> IT'S A FOOT DEEP, AND I'M GOING TO HAVE TO TURN BACK. >> HE TOLD US HE'S BEEN 184 00:24:51,590 --> 00:25:00,298 CONTACTED BY AN INSURANCE COMPANY AND FLORIDA'S EMERGENCY OPERATIONS CENTER, SEEKING HIS DATA. 185 00:25:00,365 --> 00:25:08,039 >> WHY'D DID YOU DO THIS? >> IF YOU'VE EVER FELT HOPELESSNESS OR DESPAIR OR THE ANXIETY THAT COMES WITH THE 186 00:25:08,106 --> 00:25:12,711 UNKNOWN, YOU KNOW IT'S A TERRIBLE FEELING. WE KNOW THAT WE CAN USE TECHNOLOGY IN A WAY THAT REALLY 187 00:25:12,777 --> 00:25:17,115 HASN'T BEEN USED BEFORE TO GET TO THE RIGHT AUDIENCE, TO GET TO THE LOVED ONES AND FAMILY MEMBERS. 188 00:25:17,182 --> 00:25:23,688 WE WANT TO QUELL THAT ANXIETY FOR THEM. >> A PRESCRIPTION FOR THAT MAY LIE 12 MILES NORTHEAST OF 189 00:25:23,755 --> 00:25:33,198 HARD-HIT FORT MYERS, BABCOCK RANCH IS THE BRAINCHILD OF ECO-CONSCIOUS DEVELOPER AND FORMER PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL 190 00:25:33,265 --> 00:25:46,278 PLAYER SYD KITSON. >> SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS BUILDING, THIS JUST WENT THROUGH A CAT 4 HURRICANE. 191 00:25:46,344 --> 00:25:56,054 >> KITSON AND HIS PARTNERS PURCHASED 91,000 ACRES IN 2006, BIGGER THAN MANHATTAN, WITH A DREAM TO BUILD AMERICA'S FIRST 192 00:25:56,121 --> 00:26:01,026 ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY, HURRICANE-PROOF, FULLY SUSTAINABLE SMALL TOWN. >> WE ARE THE FIRST 193 00:26:01,092 --> 00:26:07,399 SOLAR-POWERED TOWN IN AMERICA. WE HAVE A SOLAR FIELD THAT'S 150 MEGAWATTS. BUT THAT'S JUST PART OF THE 194 00:26:07,465 --> 00:26:10,535 STORY. >> HOW MANY PEOPLE LIVE HERE NOW? >> ABOUT 5,000 PEOPLE. 195 00:26:10,602 --> 00:26:18,009 AND, YOU KNOW, EVENTUALLY -- >> AND YOU'VE GOT PLANS TO GROW TO WHAT? >> ABOUT 50,000 PEOPLE. 196 00:26:18,076 --> 00:26:24,616 >> KITSON RODE OUT THE STORM IN HIS LAKESIDE HOME IN TOWN. >> AND I REMEMBER SITTING HERE. I HAD THE WEATHER ON. 197 00:26:24,683 --> 00:26:31,089 AND THE WEATHER PERSON SAYS, WELL, THIS CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE IS NOW HEADING FOR BABCOCK RANCH. 198 00:26:31,156 --> 00:26:38,930 AND NOT ONLY IS IT HEADING FOR BABCOCK RANCH, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE ON THE EASTERN SIDE OF THE WALL, WHICH IS THE WORST PLACE 199 00:26:38,997 --> 00:26:44,402 TO BE. >> HOW LONG DID THE HURRICANE SIT OVER YOU? >> IT WAS ABOUT EIGHT TO TEN 200 00:26:44,469 --> 00:26:50,308 HOURS. >> UNBELIEVABLE. YOU CAN BARELY HEAR YOURSELF THINK. 201 00:26:50,375 --> 00:26:57,849 >> HE TOOK THIS VIDEO WITH HIS iPHONE. AT THE HEIGHT OF THE TEMPEST, THERE WERE WHITE CAPS ON THE 202 00:26:57,916 --> 00:27:03,121 LAKE. >> SO AS SOON AS THE SUN CAME UP THE NEXT MORNING, I JUMPED IN MY CAR AND I STARTED DRIVING OUT. 203 00:27:03,188 --> 00:27:09,828 AND THE ONLY DAMAGE WERE A FEW DOWNED TREES AND A FEW SHINGLES OFF THE ROOFS. >> THAT'S IT? 204 00:27:09,894 --> 00:27:15,467 >> THAT'S IT. AND SO OUR RECOVERY WAS MAYBE A DAY? >> BABCOCK RANCH WAS DESIGNED TO 205 00:27:15,533 --> 00:27:24,209 ACCOMMODATE FLORIDA'S ECOSYSTEM WITH INDIGENOUS PLANTS AND NATURAL WATERWAYS FOR DRAINAGE. IT WAS BUILT 25 TO 30 FEET ABOVE 206 00:27:24,275 --> 00:27:32,617 SEA LEVEL TO AVOID STORM SURGES. ALL ELECTRIC AND PHONE LINES ARE BURIED. >> AREN'T YOU JUST LUCKY THAT 207 00:27:32,684 --> 00:27:40,425 YOU HAPPEN TO BE ON A HIGHER LEVEL THAN MOST OF THE PARTS OF FLORIDA THAT GOT WASHED AWAY? >> YES, I THINK THAT'S 208 00:27:40,492 --> 00:27:50,635 IMPORTANT, BUT NOT WHEN IT COMES TO THE WIND AND FLOODING AND RAIN. AND SO IF THAT INFRASTRUCTURE'S 209 00:27:50,702 --> 00:28:01,446 NOT BUILT PROPERLY, YOU WILL HAVE HOMES THAT GET FLOODED. YOU WILL HAVE THAT WIND DAMAGE. >> NO ONE HERE LOST POWER. 210 00:28:01,513 --> 00:28:10,655 SYD KITSON TOOK US TO SEE THIS MASSIVE SOLAR ARRAY. >> WHAT YOU SEE IS 440 ACRES. >> 700,000 PANELS, BUILT BY 211 00:28:10,722 --> 00:28:17,295 FLORIDA'S POWER AND LIGHT. THEY WITHSTOOD IAN'S BRUTAL BATTERING. >> THERE'S A LOT OF WATER, BUT 212 00:28:17,362 --> 00:28:24,903 YOU DON'T SEE A SINGLE PANEL THAT'S BEEN DISLODGED. AND THERE WAS QUITE A BIT OF WIND THAT CAME THROUGH HERE OVER 213 00:28:24,969 --> 00:28:33,378 THE LAST FEW DAYS. >> GUSTS OF 150 OR MORE. >> GUSTS OF OVER 150, AND IT DID NOT TAKE A SINGLE PANEL OUT OF 214 00:28:33,445 --> 00:28:49,494 HERE, WHICH IS REALLY JUST >>> IT'S BEEN A TURBULENT FEW MONTHS FOR THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION. 215 00:28:49,561 --> 00:28:56,534 THE SBC IS THE LARGEST EVANGELICAL INSTITUTION IN AMERICA, REPRESENTING 47,000 CHURCHES AND ABOUT 14 MILLION 216 00:28:56,601 --> 00:29:03,274 MEMBERS. BUT IN MAY, IT WAS REVEALED SOME OF ITS NOW FORMER EXECUTIVES HAD IGNORED HUNDREDS OF ALLEGATIONS 217 00:29:03,341 --> 00:29:10,215 OF SEXUAL ABUSE IN SOUTHERN BAPTIST CHURCHES FOR DECADES. WHEN SBC MEMBERS ELECTED A NEW PRESIDENT IN JUNE, THEY TURNED 218 00:29:10,281 --> 00:29:19,190 TO A SMALL-TOWN TEXAS PASTOR NAMED BART BARBER TO LEAD THEM. WITH A DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE INVESTIGATION INTO THE ABUSE 219 00:29:19,257 --> 00:29:24,996 SCANDAL UNDERWAY, AND MIDTERM ELECTIONS LOOMING, WE WEREN'T SURE HE WOULD WANT TO SIT DOWN AND DISCUSS WEIGHTY MATTERS OF 220 00:29:25,063 --> 00:29:32,003 CHURCH AND STATE, BUT HE DID. AND, AS YOU'RE ABOUT TO HEAR, BART BARBER HAS A LOT TO SAY ABOUT FAITH, SCANDAL, AND THE 221 00:29:32,070 --> 00:29:41,412 POLITICAL EXTREMISM THREATENING AMERICAN DEMOCRACY. >> BLIND PARTISANSHIP DESTROYS EVERYTHING, EXCEPT BASEBALL. 222 00:29:41,479 --> 00:29:47,318 I'M A ST. LOUIS CARDINALS FAN AND I'M STICKING WITH THAT NO MATTER WHAT. BUT SO MANY THINGS IN CHURCH 223 00:29:47,385 --> 00:29:55,326 LIFE AND BEYOND THAT ARE AREAS WHERE WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO, TO UNITE, TO SOLVE PROBLEMS, AND WE PASS OVER THAT OPPORTUNITY 224 00:29:55,393 --> 00:29:59,430 OVER AND OVER AGAIN TO SHOOT AT THE OTHER TEAM. >> AND YOU SEE THAT FILTERING INTO THE CHURCH? 225 00:29:59,497 --> 00:30:05,236 >> AND IT'S ABSOLUTELY COMING INTO THE WAY THAT PEOPLE IN CHURCHES, WHO OUGHT TO KNOW BETTER, ARE SPEAKING TO ONE 226 00:30:05,303 --> 00:30:13,311 ANOTHER ABOUT THE ISSUES THAT ARE OUTSIDE THE CHURCH THAT AREN'T REALLY THEOLOGICAL. THE BEST CHARACTERIZATION THAT 227 00:30:13,378 --> 00:30:19,584 THEY'RE NOT LISTENING. >> BART BARBER LIVES WITH HIS WIFE AND TWO CHILDREN IN FARMERSVILLE, TEXAS. 228 00:30:19,651 --> 00:30:26,524 >> WHAT WE'RE HOPING TO DO IS TO USE A KIND OF REGENERATIVE FARMING METHOD. >> HE'S GOT SOME LAND WITH A 229 00:30:26,591 --> 00:30:35,133 DOZEN OR SO COWS. >> IF YOU WANT TO SEE SOME PEOPLE COME TO KNOW CHRIST, THE WAY TO DO IS TO SHARE THE GOSPEL 230 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:42,273 AND PRAY. >> AND HAS PREACHED EVERY SUNDAY FOR 23 YEARS AT THE FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH, WHICH ONLY HAS 231 00:30:42,340 --> 00:30:49,914 ABOUT 320 MEMBERS. >> WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE TO TRY TO BECOME THE, THE HEAD OF SBC? >> I BELIEVE THAT THE SOUTHERN 232 00:30:49,981 --> 00:30:55,954 BAPTIST CONVENTION FACES SOME UNIQUE CHALLENGES RIGHT NOW. I FELT LIKE GOD WAS CALLING ME TO TRY TO GIVE LEADERSHIP AT 233 00:30:56,020 --> 00:31:05,263 THIS MOMENT TO HELP SOUTHERN BAPTISTS MOVE FORWARD. >> THE CHAIR DECLARES THE WINNER TO BE BART BARBER, THE NEXT 234 00:31:05,330 --> 00:31:11,703 PRESIDENT OF THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION. WHEN BART BARBER WAS ELECTED SBC PRESIDENT IN JUNE, IT WAS JUST 235 00:31:11,769 --> 00:31:18,543 FOUR WEEKS AFTER AN INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION REVEALED THAT SOME FORMER MEMBERS OF THE SBC'S EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE, WHICH 236 00:31:18,610 --> 00:31:24,382 OVERSEES BUDGET AND ORGANIZATIONAL ISSUES, HAD FOR DECADES IGNORED HUNDREDS OF CREDIBLE ACCUSATIONS OF SEXUAL 237 00:31:24,449 --> 00:31:30,688 ABUSE IN SOUTHERN BAPTIST CHURCHES AND SEMINARIES, PARTLY TO AVOID BEING HELD FINANCIALLY LIABLE. 238 00:31:30,755 --> 00:31:39,163 >> THEY ACTUALLY KEPT A LIST OF OVER 700 NAMES OF PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN CREDIBLY ACCUSED. WHAT THEY SAID, THOUGH, IS WE 239 00:31:39,230 --> 00:31:46,304 COULDN'T GIVE THAT TO THE CHURCHES BECAUSE LOCAL CHURCHES HAVE AUTONOMY IN WHO THEY HIRE AND FIRE FOR PASTORS. 240 00:31:46,371 --> 00:31:56,981 WE CAN'T TELL THEM THEY CAN'T HIRE THIS PERSON. >> RYAN BURGE IS AN ASSISTANT PROFESSOR AT EASTERN ILLINOIS 241 00:31:57,048 --> 00:32:01,786 UNIVERSITY, AND AN AMERICAN BAPTIST PASTOR. HE IS ONE OF THE COUNTRY'S LEADING DATA ANALYSTS ON 242 00:32:01,853 --> 00:32:08,893 RELIGION AND POLITICS. >> WERE THEY CALLING LAW ENFORCEMENT AND LETTING POLICE KNOW THAT THERE WAS A PREDATOR 243 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:15,667 AT THIS CHURCH IN THIS STATE? >> THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE HAD THE LIST, PUT IT IN A DRAWER, AND DIDN'T TELL ANYONE ABOUT IT 244 00:32:15,733 --> 00:32:25,109 FOR OVER TEN YEARS. >> THAT'S THE MINDSET THAT WE'RE REPUDIATING AND MOVING AGAINST. >> WHEN YOU READ THAT REPORT AND 245 00:32:25,176 --> 00:32:31,883 TO READ ACCOUNTS OF PEOPLE WHO WERE BRAVE ENOUGH TO CALL IN TO THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE, TO REPORT ABUSE, FOR THEM TO BE 246 00:32:31,949 --> 00:32:37,522 IGNORED -- >> THAT'S NOT A STRONG ENOUGH WORD. WE DIDN'T JUST IGNORE THEM. 247 00:32:37,588 --> 00:32:44,629 SOMETIMES WE IMPUGNED THEIR MOTIVES. SOMETIMES WE ATTACKED THEM. THE REASON WHY I'M PRESIDENT OF 248 00:32:44,696 --> 00:32:52,904 THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION IS BECAUSE OUR CHURCHES DO NOT AGREE WITH THAT AND HAVE TAKEN ACTION TO CORRECT THOSE THINGS. 249 00:32:52,970 --> 00:33:01,446 >> BART BARBER SAYS HE'S COOPERATING WITH THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT'S INVESTIGATION AND APPOINTED A NEW NINE-MEMBER 250 00:33:01,512 --> 00:33:09,787 SEXUAL ABUSE TASK FORCE THAT'S BUILDING A REGISTRY FOR CREDIBLE REPORTS OF ABUSE TO HELP CHURCHES TRACK PREDATORS. 251 00:33:09,854 --> 00:33:15,193 >> I HAVE STRONG FEELINGS ABOUT THIS. I'M -- IT'S NOT JUST ANGER. ALTHOUGH I'M ANGRY ABOUT IT. 252 00:33:15,259 --> 00:33:23,868 GOD CALLED ME TO BE A PASTOR WHEN I WAS 11. I BELIEVE IN THIS. FOR PEOPLE TO SULLY THIS HURTS 253 00:33:23,935 --> 00:33:27,805 ME. I'M NOT DOING THIS TO TRY TO ACCOMPLISH SOME PR OBJECTIVE FOR US. 254 00:33:27,872 --> 00:33:35,146 I'M DOING THIS BECAUSE I WANT TO SERVE GOD WELL. >> FOR THE NEW PRESIDENT OF THE SBC, THAT MEANS STAYING TRUE TO 255 00:33:35,213 --> 00:33:40,852 HIS DEEP CONSERVATIVE VALUES AND BELIEFS ABOUT THE LAST PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION. >> DO YOU BELIEVE THE 2020 256 00:33:40,918 --> 00:33:45,623 ELECTION WAS STOLEN? >> NO. >> YOU BELIEVE JOE BIDEN IS THE LEGITIMATE PRESIDENT OF THE 257 00:33:45,690 --> 00:33:50,428 UNITED STATES? >> I DO. ABSOLUTELY. I PRAY FOR HIM CONSISTENTLY AS 258 00:33:50,495 --> 00:33:58,469 THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. I BELIEVE HE WAS LEGITIMATELY ELECTED. 259 00:33:58,536 --> 00:34:04,075 >> BART BARBER TOLD US HE DOESN'T BELIEVE THE ELECTION WAS RIGGED. HE DOES BELIEVE THAT JOE BIDEN 260 00:34:04,142 --> 00:34:09,414 WAS DULY ELECTED THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. >> THAT'S A BIG DEAL. 60% OF WHITE EVANGELICALS 261 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:14,352 BELIEVE THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN IN 2020. AND MANY, MANY SOUTHERN BAPTISTS GO TO CHURCH EVERY SUNDAY 262 00:34:14,419 --> 00:34:20,358 BELIEVING THAT. SOUTHERN BAPTIST PASTORS HAVE BEEN AFRAID TO SPEAK ABOUT THAT FROM THE PULPIT, BECAUSE THEY 263 00:34:20,425 --> 00:34:30,968 KNOW LOTS OF PEOPLE OPPOSE THAT IN THE PEWS. HOW MANY PEOPLE, HOW MANY VOTERS IS BART BARBER IN A POSITION TO 264 00:34:31,035 --> 00:34:36,974 INFLUENCE? >> AT LEAST 07 MILLION PEOPLE IDENTIFY AS EVANGELICAL TODAY. HE CAN HAVE A HUGE IMPACT WHEN 265 00:34:37,041 --> 00:34:46,818 IT COMES TO WHO THEY VOTE FOR AND WHY THEY VOTE FOR THAT CANDIDATE. >> RYAN BURGE SAYS IN 2016, 266 00:34:46,884 --> 00:34:51,722 EVANGELICALS ACCOUNTED FOR 33% OF ALL VOTES CAST FOR DONALD TRUMP, BUT BART BARBER'S VOTE WAS NOT AMONG THEM. 267 00:34:51,789 --> 00:35:02,667 >> IN 2016, YOU SAID, I THINK IT HURTS THE CREDIBILITY OF MY TESTIMONY FOR ME TO BE A VOCAL SUPPORTER OF A DEMONSTRABLY EVIL 268 00:35:02,733 --> 00:35:10,608 MAN WHOSE CAMPAIGN PLATFORM CONSISTS MAINLY OF HIS EVILNESS. >> YEAH, I DID NOT VOTE FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP IN 2016. 269 00:35:10,675 --> 00:35:20,117 AND THAT LAYS OUT MY RATIONALE FOR THAT PRETTY WELL. >> WHAT WAS THE EVILNESS THAT YOU SAW? 270 00:35:20,184 --> 00:35:27,091 >>>> THE WAY HE TREATED WOMEN THAT HAD BEEN DOCUMENTED AT THAT POINT. UH, I THOUGHT THAT A LOT OF THE 271 00:35:27,158 --> 00:35:34,031 RHETORIC WAS ABOUT IMMIGRATION WAS WRONGFUL. A LOT OF SOUTHERN BAPTISTS THOUGHT THAT THE RHETORIC ABOUT 272 00:35:34,098 --> 00:35:41,172 IMMIGRATION WAS WRONGFUL. >> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LEGAL IMMIGRATION? >> YOU EMBRACE IT? 273 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:46,711 >> I EMBRACE IT. I'M THANKFUL FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE IMMIGRATED. I LIVE IN TEXAS. 274 00:35:46,777 --> 00:35:57,255 I'M SURROUNDED BY PEOPLE WHO ARE INTERMARRIED INTO OUR FAMILIES. THEY MAKE OUR COMMUNITY BETTER. >> CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, IN 275 00:35:57,321 --> 00:36:03,027 2020 YOU DID VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP. >> PART OF WHAT CHANGED IS THAT, UM, THE PRESIDENT ADVOCATED FOR 276 00:36:03,094 --> 00:36:10,134 SOME LEGISLATION ON, UH, SENTENCING REFORM, UH, SOMETHING THAT REALLY ADDRESSED SOME INJUSTICE THAT AFFECTED MINORITY 277 00:36:10,201 --> 00:36:17,341 COMMUNITIES. I WAS ENCOURAGED BY THE CONSISTENT PRO-LIFE SUPPORT THAT THE PRESIDENT GAVE. 278 00:36:17,408 --> 00:36:25,249 I DIDN'T EXPECT THAT. >> WE'RE NOT GOING TO WALK DOWN AND I'LL BE THERE WITH YOU. >> BARBER DID TELL US WHAT 279 00:36:25,316 --> 00:36:31,889 HAPPENED ON JANUARY 6th. >> HANG MIKE PENCE, HEADACHE MIKE PENCE. >> AND DONALD TRUMP'S ROLE IN 280 00:36:31,956 --> 00:36:38,763 IT, HAS HAD A BIG IMPACT ON HIS OPINION OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT NOW. >> I, AND I THINK A LOT OF 281 00:36:38,829 --> 00:36:44,936 SOUTHERN BAPTISTS, WOULD BE THRILLED TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SUPPORT SOMEONE FOR LEADERSHIP IN OUR COUNTRY WHO'S 282 00:36:45,002 --> 00:36:52,243 STRONG ON THE VALUES THAT MATTER TO US, WHO CAN DO THAT WITHOUT PUTTING THE VICE PRESIDENT'S LIFE IN DANGER. 283 00:36:52,310 --> 00:37:02,587 >> YOU WOULD BE HARD-PRESSED TO VOTE FOR SOMEBODY WHO PUT HIS VICE PRESIDENT'S LIFE IN DANGER? >> YES. 284 00:37:02,653 --> 00:37:10,261 >> THE CHURCH IS SUPPOSED TO DIRECT THE GOVERNMENT. THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO DIRECT THE CHURCH. 285 00:37:10,328 --> 00:37:17,034 >> IT STANDS CONTRARY TO 400 YEARS OF BAPTIST HISTORY AND EVERYTHING I BELIEVE ABOUT RELIGIOUS LIBERTY. 286 00:37:17,101 --> 00:37:24,875 I'M OPPOSED TO THE IDEA OF CHRISTIAN DOMINION, CHURCHLY DOMINION OVER THE OPERATIONS OF GOVERNMENT. 287 00:37:24,942 --> 00:37:32,383 >> WHY DO YOU OBJECT TO THAT? >> I OBJECT TO IT BECAUSE JESUS SAID HIS KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD. 288 00:37:32,450 --> 00:37:39,957 I OBJECT TO IT BECAUSE HISTORICALLY EVERY TIME IT'S BEEN ADOPTED IT WOUND UP PERSECUTING PEOPLE LIKE ME. 289 00:37:40,024 --> 00:37:46,897 DOESN'T STOP AT PERSECUTING PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT CHRISTIANS. IT EVENTUALLY WINDS UP PERSECUTING PEOPLE WHO ARE 290 00:37:46,964 --> 00:37:53,704 CHRISTIANS FOR WHOM THE FLAVOR OF THEIR CHRISTIANITY IS DIFFERENT FROM THAT OF THE GOVERNMENT. 291 00:37:53,771 --> 00:38:02,279 >> SUPPORT FOR THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE WAS A FOUNDATIONAL PRINCIPLE FOR BAPTISTS WHO FACED RELIGIOUS 292 00:38:02,346 --> 00:38:09,787 PERSECUTION IN ENGLAND AND AMERICA IN THE 1600s. BAPTISTS SPLIT IN 1845 OVER SLAVERY, WHICH IS WHEN THE 293 00:38:09,854 --> 00:38:16,694 SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION WAS FOUNDED. THE SBC SUPPORTED SLAVERY, AND LATER SEGREGATION. 294 00:38:16,761 --> 00:38:25,770 ONABORTION IN THE SBCs OPPOSITION HAS HARDENED OVER THE YEARS. IN 1971 THEY MADE EXCEPTIONS IN 295 00:38:25,836 --> 00:38:32,410 CASES WHERE THERE WAS, QUOTE, THE LIKELIHOOD OF DAMAGE TO THE EMOTIONAL, MENTAL, AND PHYSICAL HEALTH OF THE MOTHER. 296 00:38:32,476 --> 00:38:40,384 >> BUT IN 1980, THEY NARROWED THAT EXCEPTION ONLY TO CASES WHERE A PREGNANCY THREATENED THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER. 297 00:38:40,451 --> 00:38:49,260 BART BARBER SAYS HE STANDS BY THAT TODAY. OUR INTEREST WITH ABORTION IS NOT -- IS NOT TO POLICE 298 00:38:49,326 --> 00:38:56,801 EVERYBODY'S SEX LIFE. OUR INTEREST WITH ABORTION IS THAT WE BELIEVE THAT'S A HUMAN PERSON WHO DESERVES TO LIVE. 299 00:38:56,867 --> 00:39:04,709 THERE WAS JUST THE CASE RECENTLY, A 10-YEAR-OLD GIRL WHO'S RAPED, BARRED FROM HAVING AN ABORTION IN OHIO. 300 00:39:04,775 --> 00:39:16,754 WAS ABLE TO OBTAIN ONE IN, IN INDIANA. I MEAN, THIS IS A LITTLE GIRL WHO, SHE HAS A RIGHT TO LIFE 301 00:39:16,821 --> 00:39:21,992 TOO. SURE. >> EVEN IN THAT CASE YOU THINK SHE SHOULD HAVE THE CHILD? 302 00:39:22,059 --> 00:39:27,131 >> I DO. >> SHE SHOULD BE FORCED TO HAVE THE CHILD? >> I THINK, UM, I DON'T WANT 303 00:39:27,198 --> 00:39:34,004 THAT TO SOUND LIKE I DON'T HAVE TREMENDOUS COMPASSION FOR HER AND HER CIRCUMSTANCE. I WISH WE COULD PUT AN END TO 304 00:39:34,071 --> 00:39:40,711 10-YEAR-OLDS BEING RAPED. I'M TRYING TO WORK AGAINST SEXUAL ABUSE BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S ATROCIOUS. 305 00:39:40,778 --> 00:39:50,387 >> BUT YOU DON'T SEE FORCING A 10-YEAR-OLD CHILD TO GO TO TERM WITH A BABY FROM RAPE, AS ABUSE OF A CHILD. 306 00:39:50,454 --> 00:39:57,628 >> I SEE IT AS HORRIBLE. I SEE IT AS PREFERABLE TO KILLING SOMEONE ELSE. >> NOT SURPRISINGLY, BARBER AND 307 00:39:57,695 --> 00:40:05,436 THE SBC, OPPOSE SAME-SEX MARRIAGE. >> WE'RE COMMITTED TO THE IDEA OF GENDER IS A GIFT FROM GOD. 308 00:40:05,503 --> 00:40:16,447 WE'RE COMMITTED TO THE IDEA THAT MEN AND WOMEN OUGHT TO BE UNITED WITH ONE ANOTHER IN MARRIAGE. >> DO YOU STILL BELIEVE THAT GAY 309 00:40:16,514 --> 00:40:23,821 PEOPLE CAN BE, SHOULD BE CONVERTED OUT OF BEING GAY? >> I BELIEVE THAT SINNERS SHOULD BE CONVERTED OUT OF BEING 310 00:40:23,888 --> 00:40:29,326 SINNERS, AND THAT APPLIES TO ALL OF US. >> CAN SOMEBODY BE A GOOD CHRISTIAN, A MEMBER OF THE 311 00:40:29,393 --> 00:40:40,905 SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION AND BE GAY, OR LET'SBIAN AND MARRIE TO A PERSON OF THE SAME SEX? >> NO. 312 00:40:40,971 --> 00:40:50,781 >> IN JESUS' NAME WE PRAY, AMEN. >> CAN A GOOD CHRISTIAN IN GOOD CONSCIENCE VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP IN 2024? 313 00:40:50,848 --> 00:40:58,756 BEFORE WE LEFT, WE ASKED BART BARBER ONE LAST TIME ABOUT HOW WE'LL VOTE. >> I'M NOT EVEN GOING TO 314 00:40:58,823 --> 00:41:05,830 SPECULATE ABOUT THAT. WHO ARE THE OTHER CHOICES? >> AHEAD OF THE ELECTION IN 2016, YOU SAID WHO YOU WERE 315 00:41:05,896 --> 00:41:11,836 GOING TO VOTE FOR. IN 2020 YOU SAID WHO YOU VOTED FOR. NOW YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SAY WHO 316 00:41:11,902 --> 00:41:17,308 YOU'D VOTE FOR? >> THAT'S CORRECT. >> SOMEBODY SEEING THIS IS GOING TO THINK, OH, WELL, THAT'S -- 317 00:41:17,374 --> 00:41:23,914 >> WHY ARE YOU HEDGING IT NOW? >>>> THAT'S -- THAT'S POLITICAL. >> IT'S NOT POLITICAL CALCULATION. 318 00:41:23,981 --> 00:41:32,156 THE FACT THAT IN 2016 I COULD SAY SOMETHING AND I WAS SPEAKING ONLY FOR MYSELF. AND NOW, UM, YOU KNOW, UM, 319 00:41:32,223 --> 00:41:37,828 50,000 CHURCHES OF PEOPLE I LOVE ARE REPRESENTED BY ME WHEN I SPEAK. AND SO DO I FEEL A SENSE OF 320 00:41:37,895 --> 00:41:43,167 NEEDING TO BE MORE WISE AND CAREFUL ABOUT THINGS THAT I SAY NOW? ABSOLUTELY I DO. 321 00:41:43,234 --> 00:41:57,114 HAVE EVANGELICALS SOLD THEIR SOUL IN ORDER TO SUPPORT DONALD TRUMP? >> FIRST OF ALL, I THINK WE HAD 322 00:41:57,181 --> 00:42:05,189 >>> "THE LAST MINUTE" OF "60 MINUTES" IS SPONSORED BY UNITED HEALTH CARE. GET MEDICARE WITH MORE. 323 00:42:05,256 --> 00:42:13,564 >>> 11 YEARS AGO, OUR LATE COLLEAGUE BOB SIMON DESCRIBED ST. LOUIS CARDINALS FIRST BASEMAN ALBERT PUJOLS AS, ONE OF 324 00:42:13,631 --> 00:42:20,905 THE GREATEST BASEBALL PLAYERS WHO EVER LIVED. WELL, THIS SEASON AT 41 AFTER YEARS PLAYING ON THE WEST COAST, 325 00:42:20,971 --> 00:42:33,751 PUJOLS CAME HOME TO THE CARDINALS FOR HIS FINAL SEASON. HE SMASHED HIS 700th HOMERUN, THEN NUMBERS 701, 702, AND 703 326 00:42:33,817 --> 00:42:40,925 JOINING BARRY BONDS, HANK AARON, AND BABE RUTH IN THAT ELITE CIRCLE. AN 11-TIME ALL-STAR, LEGENDARY 327 00:42:40,991 --> 00:42:50,200 FOR HIS WORK ETHIC AND ADMIRED FOR HIS CHARITIES, ALBERT PUJOLS WAS, AMAZINGLY, CHOSEN 402nd IN THE 1999 BASEBALL DRAFT. 328 00:42:50,267 --> 00:42:57,541 >> WHAT DRIVES ALBERT? HE SAYS HE'S STILL SEETHING ABOUT HOW HE WAS SNUBBED IN THAT '99 DRAFT. 329 00:42:57,608 --> 00:43:02,079 >> YOU'LL NEVER GET OVER IT, HUH? >> NEVER, NEVER. >> PEOPLE HAVE TOLD ME THAT IT'S 330 00:43:02,146 --> 00:43:05,015 REALLY A BAD IDEA TO GET YOU ANGRY.