1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:30,633 --> 00:00:32,900 ( prison door buzzes ) 4 00:00:49,233 --> 00:00:51,266 I KNEW FROM WHEN I WAS REAL SMALL 5 00:00:51,266 --> 00:00:53,934 THAT PEOPLE WERE GONNA KNOW WHO I WAS. 6 00:00:53,934 --> 00:00:55,600 I ALWAYS HAD THAT FEELING. 7 00:00:55,600 --> 00:01:00,400 BUT I JUST NEVER KNEW HOW THEY WERE GONNA LEARN. 8 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,800 I KINDA ENJOY IT, BECAUSE NOW EVEN AFTER I DIE, 9 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,633 PEOPLE ARE GOING TO REMEMBER ME FOREVER. 10 00:01:06,633 --> 00:01:08,900 THEY'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT ME FOR YEARS. 11 00:01:08,900 --> 00:01:13,467 PEOPLE IN WEST MEMPHIS WILL TELL THEIR KIDS STORIES. 12 00:01:13,467 --> 00:01:14,867 IT-- IT WILL BE, LIKE, 13 00:01:14,867 --> 00:01:17,367 SORT OF LIKE I'M THE WEST MEMPHIS BOGEY MAN. 14 00:01:17,367 --> 00:01:19,800 LITTLE KIDS WILL BE LOOKING UNDER THEIR BED 15 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,967 BEFORE THEY GO TO BED-- "DAMIEN MIGHT BE UNDER THERE." 16 00:01:24,367 --> 00:01:27,734 IF I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TO DAMIEN ECHOLS... 17 00:01:29,133 --> 00:01:33,133 I WOULD TELL HIM THAT I HOPE HE BUSTS HELL WIDE OPEN. 18 00:01:35,033 --> 00:01:37,033 PERIOD. 19 00:01:37,033 --> 00:01:39,767 AND THAT IF I COULD GET MY HANDS ON HIM, 20 00:01:39,767 --> 00:01:43,467 I WOULD EAT THE SKIN OFF OF HIS FACE. 21 00:01:57,934 --> 00:02:01,033 "Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills," 22 00:02:01,033 --> 00:02:03,567 this film tells the tale of three teens who wore black, 23 00:02:03,567 --> 00:02:06,033 listened to Metallica and, perhaps as a result, 24 00:02:06,033 --> 00:02:09,433 were convicted in the 1993 killing of three young boys. 25 00:02:09,433 --> 00:02:11,600 Two filmmakers with incredible access 26 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,700 spent almost a year in West Memphis documenting the trial and the town. 27 00:02:14,700 --> 00:02:18,166 Everybody in the town and in the courtroom and on the jury 28 00:02:18,166 --> 00:02:21,700 are all blinded by their fantasies about satanic cults. 29 00:02:21,700 --> 00:02:23,867 Tom Brokaw: The criminal confessions. 30 00:02:23,867 --> 00:02:26,567 Are too many manipulated by the police? 31 00:02:26,567 --> 00:02:29,800 You've got to be wondering if the true killers were actually captured. 32 00:02:33,934 --> 00:02:35,900 THE REASON I MADE THE, UM, 33 00:02:35,900 --> 00:02:40,133 "WEST MEMPHIS BOGEY MAN" COMMENT DURING THE FIRST FILM 34 00:02:40,133 --> 00:02:42,800 WAS BECAUSE I WAS MAKING LIGHT OF THE SITUATION. 35 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,533 I WAS JOKING. I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT-- 36 00:02:46,533 --> 00:02:50,266 I MEAN I DIDN'T EVEN COMPREHEND 37 00:02:50,266 --> 00:02:52,667 THAT THE SITUATION COULD GET THIS SERIOUS, 38 00:02:52,667 --> 00:02:55,133 THAT IT COULD ACTUALLY GO THIS FAR. 39 00:02:55,133 --> 00:02:59,934 BECAUSE I WAS THINKING, "IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING, 40 00:02:59,934 --> 00:03:02,133 THEN THEY CAN'T PROVE THAT YOU DID SOMETHING 41 00:03:02,133 --> 00:03:04,200 YOU HAVEN'T ACTUALLY DONE." 42 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,800 THAT DIDN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME. NOW I SEE THEY CAN. 43 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,934 I WASN'T EVEN THINKING ABOUT IT WHENEVER I SAID IT-- 44 00:03:10,934 --> 00:03:12,500 A SPUR-OF-THE-MOMENT THING. 45 00:03:12,500 --> 00:03:16,033 BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE, IT SEEMS, DIDN'T TAKE IT THAT WAY. 46 00:03:16,033 --> 00:03:19,734 Mark Byers: YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE NO BOGEY MAN IN WEST MEMPHIS 47 00:03:19,734 --> 00:03:22,133 BECAUSE YOU'RE GONNA BE DEAD IN HELL. 48 00:03:25,500 --> 00:03:28,533 Anchorman: You're watching KATV Channel 7, 49 00:03:28,533 --> 00:03:30,300 the spirit of Arkansas. 50 00:03:30,300 --> 00:03:32,266 Today marks the five-year anniversary 51 00:03:32,266 --> 00:03:35,433 of a West Memphis murder case that gained national attention. 52 00:03:35,433 --> 00:03:37,633 The bodies of three second graders: 53 00:03:37,633 --> 00:03:40,700 Steven Branch, Christopher Byers and Michael Moore 54 00:03:40,700 --> 00:03:43,033 were found mutilated in a ditch. 55 00:03:43,033 --> 00:03:46,433 Now one of the three men convicted for the murders, Damien Echols, 56 00:03:46,433 --> 00:03:49,467 has prompted a hearing to try to get his conviction thrown out. 57 00:03:49,467 --> 00:03:52,700 - Norris. - Norris Deajon: That hearing started today in Jonesboro, 58 00:03:52,700 --> 00:03:54,700 where the trial also took place. 59 00:03:54,700 --> 00:03:58,266 Damien Echols is trying to avoid being executed by lethal injection. 60 00:03:58,266 --> 00:04:00,533 He's claiming he didn't get a fair trial 61 00:04:00,533 --> 00:04:03,567 because of misrepresentation by his attorneys. 62 00:04:03,567 --> 00:04:06,533 Four years ago an Arkansas jury found him guilty 63 00:04:06,533 --> 00:04:08,233 of murdering three second graders 64 00:04:08,233 --> 00:04:10,967 in a horrific ritualistic sacrifice. 65 00:04:10,967 --> 00:04:13,300 As our senior correspondent Tim Sullivan reports, 66 00:04:13,300 --> 00:04:16,767 he wants a new trial and a chance to live. 67 00:04:16,767 --> 00:04:18,867 Sullivan: After a month of investigation, 68 00:04:18,867 --> 00:04:22,300 police arrested Echols and two of his teenage friends, 69 00:04:22,300 --> 00:04:25,100 Jessie Misskelley and Jason Baldwin. 70 00:04:25,100 --> 00:04:29,433 Police theorized the murders had been part of a satanic ritual. 71 00:04:29,433 --> 00:04:31,000 In addition to local media, 72 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,200 the case attracted a documentary team 73 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:38,166 that produced a film called "Paradise Lost" for HBO. 74 00:04:38,166 --> 00:04:39,567 As a result of the film, 75 00:04:39,567 --> 00:04:41,700 a nationwide support group has sprung up 76 00:04:41,700 --> 00:04:45,934 to help the young men they call "The West Memphis Three." 77 00:04:45,934 --> 00:04:48,100 ( music playing ) 78 00:05:08,133 --> 00:05:11,133 Chris Worthington: IF THE WORLD WOULD ONLY KNOW THAT THIS CASE IS 79 00:05:11,133 --> 00:05:14,367 A TRAVESTY. IT IS A NON-CASE. 80 00:05:14,367 --> 00:05:18,533 IT IS A CASE WHERE SOMEONE IS IN PRISON RIGHT NOW BECAUSE OF PREJUDICE. 81 00:05:18,533 --> 00:05:23,000 MY SON CHRISTOPHER WAS THE ONE THAT JASON BALDWIN, 82 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,066 JESSIE MISSKELLEY AND DAMIEN ECHOLS MURDERED 83 00:05:27,066 --> 00:05:29,934 ON MAY 5, 1993, FIVE YEARS AGO TODAY. 84 00:05:29,934 --> 00:05:32,633 THAT'S ALL WE'RE REALLY DOING IS TRYING TO PROMOTE THE CASE. 85 00:05:32,633 --> 00:05:36,000 YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT EXPERTS, WE'RE NOT LAWYERS, WE'RE NOT SCIENTISTS. 86 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,533 WE JUST NEED TO KEEP THIS CASE ALIVE SO PEOPLE WILL DO SOMETHING. 87 00:05:38,533 --> 00:05:41,133 - Reporter: AND WHERE ARE YOU FROM? - LOS ANGELES. 88 00:05:41,133 --> 00:05:43,433 - WHERE ARE YOU FROM? - I'M FROM ARKANSAS-- 89 00:05:43,433 --> 00:05:45,800 - PARIS, ARKANSAS. - AND WHERE ARE YOU FROM? 90 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:47,867 AKRON, OHIO. 91 00:05:47,867 --> 00:05:51,533 MARK, HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT "THE WEST MEMPHIS THREE" SUPPORT GROUP? 92 00:05:51,533 --> 00:05:55,133 TO ME IT'S LIKE A JEFFREY DAHMER FAN CLUB, 93 00:05:55,133 --> 00:05:58,066 CHARLES MANSON FAN CLUB, TED BUNDY. 94 00:05:58,066 --> 00:06:01,767 YOU COULD NAME THEM ALL. SOME PEOPLE WANT TO COME TO THE RESCUE OF A SAVAGE 95 00:06:01,767 --> 00:06:05,300 TO GET MAYBE THEIR 15-MINUTES' NOTORIETY ON TV. 96 00:06:05,300 --> 00:06:08,100 Burk Sauls: WE GET EMAILS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD ACTUALLY. 97 00:06:08,100 --> 00:06:10,467 YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY KNOWS THERE'S DOUBT ABOUT THIS CASE, 98 00:06:10,467 --> 00:06:14,033 BUT WE JUST WANT PEOPLE TO LOOK AT IT AGAIN AND MAYBE QUESTION IT. 99 00:06:14,033 --> 00:06:16,800 THEY KEEP WANTING TO FIND SOMEONE ELSE TO BLAME 100 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:18,133 TO GET THEIR THREE OFF. 101 00:06:18,133 --> 00:06:21,500 THAT'S THEIR JOB-- TAKING CARE OF WHO THEY WANT; 102 00:06:21,500 --> 00:06:23,433 DRAW SUSPICION; DO THEIR THING. 103 00:06:23,433 --> 00:06:28,000 BUT THE WORLD KNOWS WHO'S GUILTY AND WHO'S INNOCENT. 104 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,633 COULD YOU HOLD THAT OUT FOR ME AND LET ME GET ANOTHER SHOT? 105 00:06:31,633 --> 00:06:34,100 Worthington: WE WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THE CASE. 106 00:06:34,100 --> 00:06:37,567 I'M HERE TODAY BECAUSE THIS IS A HEARING FOR DAMIEN ECHOLS. 107 00:06:37,567 --> 00:06:40,100 IT'S THE FIFTH ANNIVERSARY OF THE TRAGIC MURDERS 108 00:06:40,100 --> 00:06:43,500 WHICH HE WAS CONVICTED FOR, BUT WE DO NOT FEEL THERE WAS 109 00:06:43,500 --> 00:06:46,300 REALLY SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE TO WARRANT THAT CONVICTION. 110 00:06:46,300 --> 00:06:48,800 YEAH, THEY'RE GUILTY. THEY'RE GUILTY AS THEY ARE. 111 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,467 AND THAT'S AN ATROCITY FOR YOU TO EVEN WANT TO SELL-- 112 00:06:51,467 --> 00:06:54,000 WHERE'S THE PROFIT GOING FOR THESE T-SHIRTS? 113 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,600 IT ALL GOES TO RAISE PUBLICITY ABOUT THE CASE. 114 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:58,633 EVERY PENNY OF IT GOES BACK INTO DOING THAT. 115 00:06:58,633 --> 00:07:01,433 Byers: WHY DOESN'T THE PROFIT GO TO THE VICTIMS' FAMILIES? 116 00:07:01,433 --> 00:07:05,100 THE SON OF SAM LAW SAYS THAT ECHOLS AND THESE THREE CAN'T MAKE ANY MONEY OFF IT-- 117 00:07:05,100 --> 00:07:08,033 - IT DOESN'T GO TO THEM. - IT IS GOING TO THE VICTIMS' FAMILIES. 118 00:07:08,033 --> 00:07:11,133 IT IS. IT'S TRYING TO FIND OUT WHO KILLED THESE LITTLE BOYS. 119 00:07:11,133 --> 00:07:14,467 - THEY KNOW WHO KILLED THESE THREE LITTLE BOYS RIGHT THERE. - I DON'T KNOW IT. 120 00:07:14,467 --> 00:07:17,467 - THEY'RE COLD-BLOODED MURDERERS. - Sauls: IN YOUR OPINION. 121 00:07:17,467 --> 00:07:19,767 IT DOESN'T-- DOESN'T ADD UP THAT WAY FOR US. 122 00:07:19,767 --> 00:07:23,333 IN MY OPINION AND 24 JURORS OUT OF THE STATE OF ARKANSAS'S OPINION. 123 00:07:23,333 --> 00:07:26,033 DON'T JUST SAY MY OPINION. 124 00:07:26,033 --> 00:07:27,800 THESE T-SHIRTS-- 125 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,433 THEY'RE WORTH TRASH, GARBAGE. 126 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:56,667 Echols: I'VE BEEN LOCKED UP SIX YEARS FOR SOMETHING THAT I DIDN'T DO. 127 00:07:56,667 --> 00:08:00,734 AND SOMETIMES, UH, THE THINGS WE GO THROUGH THAT MAKE US SUFFER 128 00:08:00,734 --> 00:08:04,100 ARE VERY GOOD TEACHERS. 129 00:08:05,633 --> 00:08:10,200 I THINK MY SUFFERING THROUGH THIS WHOLE THING 130 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,700 HAS TAUGHT ME A VERY GREAT DEAL. 131 00:08:19,100 --> 00:08:21,500 Jason Baldwin: I HAVE ANGER SOMETIMES, 132 00:08:21,500 --> 00:08:24,533 BUT THERE'S NO ONE TO DIRECT IT TOWARDS, YOU KNOW? 133 00:08:24,533 --> 00:08:28,767 SO I JUST REALLY TRY TO STAY FOCUSED ON, UH, 134 00:08:28,767 --> 00:08:31,600 JUST GOING HOME, GETTING-- 135 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,133 LETTING EVERYBODY KNOW THAT I AM INNOCENT, THAT I DIDN'T DO THIS. 136 00:08:35,133 --> 00:08:38,967 UM, I DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW THEY CONVICTED ME 137 00:08:38,967 --> 00:08:42,166 OR GOT ME IN HERE OR REALLY HOW THEY DID-- 138 00:08:42,166 --> 00:08:45,033 HOW THEY JUST ARRESTED ME IN THE FIRST PLACE, YOU KNOW? 139 00:08:45,033 --> 00:08:49,266 BUT IT HAPPENED, SO I JUST CAN'T REALLY DWELL ON WHAT'S HAPPENED. 140 00:08:49,266 --> 00:08:52,767 I'VE JUST GOT TO WORK WITH WHAT'S GOING ON NOW. 141 00:08:58,500 --> 00:09:01,367 Jessie Misskelley: WHEN THEY TOLD ME THAT I WAS GOING TO SPEND 142 00:09:01,367 --> 00:09:03,200 THE REST OF MY LIFE IN PRISON, AT THE TIME, 143 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,500 I WANTED TO TELL THEM, "LOOK, I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT. 144 00:09:05,500 --> 00:09:07,967 JUST-- YOU MIGHT AS WELL JUST GO AHEAD AND KILL ME RIGHT NOW 145 00:09:07,967 --> 00:09:11,000 BECAUSE THERE AIN'T NO WAY I'M GOING TO SPEND THE REST OF MY LIFE 146 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,367 IN PRISON AND MISS MY FAMILY. I JUST CAN'T DO THAT." 147 00:09:13,367 --> 00:09:15,967 BUT YOU KNOW, OVER THE YEARS PAST AND EVERYTHING, 148 00:09:15,967 --> 00:09:17,734 I DONE-- YOU KNOW, I DONE GOT USED TO IT, 149 00:09:17,734 --> 00:09:19,633 DONE ADJUSTED TO IT AND EVERYTHING, 150 00:09:19,633 --> 00:09:21,734 HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS AND ALL THAT, YOU KNOW. 151 00:09:21,734 --> 00:09:24,133 I ADJUSTED TO IT, YOU KNOW. 152 00:09:24,133 --> 00:09:27,600 BASICALLY... 153 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,166 IT'S GETTING BETTER AND BETTER BY THE DAY. 154 00:09:30,166 --> 00:09:32,633 YOU KNOW, I'VE JUST GOT TO ADJUST TO IT MORE OFTEN. 155 00:09:32,633 --> 00:09:34,400 AND IT'S GETTING BETTER. 156 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,233 BUT I LIVED-- I'M GONNA MAKE IT THROUGH IT. 157 00:09:37,233 --> 00:09:40,066 ♪ WELCOME TO WHERE TIME STANDS STILL ♪ 158 00:09:40,066 --> 00:09:43,800 ♪ NO ONE LEAVES AND NO ONE WILL ♪ 159 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,400 ♪ THE MOON IS FULL, IT NEVER SEEMS TO CHANGE ♪ 160 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:50,133 ♪ JUST LABELED MENTALLY DERANGED... ♪ 161 00:09:50,133 --> 00:09:53,800 MY NAME IS CHRIS WORTHINGTON AND I'M FROM AKRON, OHIO. 162 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,734 DEBRA SHUE, I'M FROM MURFREESBORO, TENNESSEE. 163 00:09:56,734 --> 00:09:59,867 I'M KATHY BAKKEN AND I'M FROM CALIFORNIA. 164 00:09:59,867 --> 00:10:04,000 GROVE PASHLEY, G-R-O-V-E P-A-S-H-L-E-Y, 165 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:05,467 AND I'M FROM LOS ANGELES. 166 00:10:05,467 --> 00:10:09,133 ANNA MACEK, A-N-N-A M-A-C-E-K, 167 00:10:09,133 --> 00:10:11,800 FROM RIGHT OUTSIDE HOUSTON, TEXAS. 168 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,834 I'M RUTH CARTER AND I'M FROM VIRGINIA. 169 00:10:14,834 --> 00:10:18,900 BILL PRICHASON, P-R-I-C-H-A-S-O-N, 170 00:10:18,900 --> 00:10:21,867 - Stenographer: A-S-O-N? - NEW JOISEY. 171 00:10:21,867 --> 00:10:24,867 GREGORY FLEMING FROM ALEXANDER, ARKANSAS. 172 00:10:24,867 --> 00:10:28,934 I'M MARCIA IAN, M-A-R-C-I-A I-A-N, 173 00:10:28,934 --> 00:10:30,600 ALSO FROM NEW JERSEY. 174 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:32,734 MY NAME'S BURK SAULS AND I'M AN ALCOHOLIC. 175 00:10:32,734 --> 00:10:37,300 - ( laughing ) - NO, I'M BURK SAULS, B-U-R-K S-A-U-L-S, 176 00:10:37,300 --> 00:10:40,533 AND I'M FROM LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA. 177 00:10:40,533 --> 00:10:44,166 I'D LIKE IT IF YOU COULD ALL TELL ME WHY-- 178 00:10:44,166 --> 00:10:46,800 WHY SOME OF YOU HAVE COME FROM SO FAR? 179 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,166 SOME, I THINK, HAVE DRIVEN AS FAR AS FROM CALIFORNIA, 180 00:10:50,166 --> 00:10:52,734 TAKEN VACATION TIME, SPENT MONEY AND SO FORTH 181 00:10:52,734 --> 00:10:55,033 TO COME TO THIS-- 182 00:10:55,033 --> 00:10:58,767 FAIRLY OBSCURE IN MANY WAYS-- HEARING. 183 00:10:58,767 --> 00:11:02,667 I THINK I SAW "PARADISE LOST" THE NIGHT IT PREMIERED ON HBO 184 00:11:02,667 --> 00:11:04,533 IN AUGUST OF '96. 185 00:11:04,533 --> 00:11:06,967 AND IT JUST MADE ME SO MAD 186 00:11:06,967 --> 00:11:09,767 THAT A MODERN-DAY WITCH TRIAL 187 00:11:09,767 --> 00:11:13,033 WAS BEING ALLOWED TO OCCUR IN AMERICA. 188 00:11:13,033 --> 00:11:15,400 I MEAN, IT'S NOT JUST THE FACT THAT THEY WERE MAKING MISTAKES 189 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,467 AND GETTING THE WRONG PEOPLE, IT LOOKED LIKE, 190 00:11:17,467 --> 00:11:20,934 BUT THE FACT THAT PEOPLE SEEMED TO BE REACHING THEIR DECISIONS, 191 00:11:20,934 --> 00:11:22,400 EVEN THE JURY, 192 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,400 BECAUSE OF THINGS LIKE EMOTIONS AND PREJUDICE 193 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,700 AND HYSTERIA AND THEIR ANGER. 194 00:11:27,700 --> 00:11:30,300 AND THEY WEREN'T USING THEIR REASON OR COMMON SENSE 195 00:11:30,300 --> 00:11:32,567 OR THEY WEREN'T REALLY EVEN APPLYING THE LAW. 196 00:11:32,567 --> 00:11:35,367 AND I JUST THINK THAT'S THE WRONG WAY 197 00:11:35,367 --> 00:11:37,433 FOR THINGS TO HAPPEN IN AMERICA. 198 00:11:37,433 --> 00:11:40,033 AND I COULDN'T FORGET ABOUT IT. 199 00:11:40,033 --> 00:11:43,834 I JUST GOT ANGRIER, SO FINALLY I DECIDED TO LOOK INTO THE CASE 200 00:11:43,834 --> 00:11:47,033 AND I WROTE DAMIEN AND READ ALL I COULD ABOUT IT 201 00:11:47,033 --> 00:11:50,300 AND FINALLY JUST KIND OF STUMBLED UPON 202 00:11:50,300 --> 00:11:54,367 OTHER PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET WHO FELT LIKE I DID ABOUT IT. 203 00:11:54,367 --> 00:11:56,900 IT JUST MADE ME CRY. IT REALLY MADE ME CRY, BECAUSE I WAS THINKING, 204 00:11:56,900 --> 00:11:59,400 "HOW IN THE WORLD CAN THEY SENTENCE THIS GUY TO DEATH 205 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,266 WITH WHAT THEY HAVE? WHICH IS NOTHING." 206 00:12:02,266 --> 00:12:05,500 Shue: WHEN I WENT TO WORK, YOU KNOW, AND THEY HAD 207 00:12:05,500 --> 00:12:08,033 "CAUGHT" THE PEOPLE THAT HAD DONE THIS, 208 00:12:08,033 --> 00:12:11,467 MY BOSS AT WORK, SHE JUST THOUGHT IT WAS GREAT. 209 00:12:11,467 --> 00:12:15,533 SHE WAS LIKE, "WELL, THEY CAUGHT THOSE FREAKS THAT KILLED THOSE KIDS." 210 00:12:15,533 --> 00:12:17,200 ( sarcastically ) WHAT A RELIEF! 211 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,100 YEAH, I MEAN, THOSE WERE HER EXACT WORDS-- "THEY CAUGHT THOSE FREAKS." 212 00:12:20,100 --> 00:12:22,233 AND I SAID, "THEY HAVEN'T EVEN DONE THE TRIAL YET. 213 00:12:22,233 --> 00:12:24,667 WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THEY DID IT?" AND SHE WAS LIKE, 214 00:12:24,667 --> 00:12:28,233 "WELL, LOOK AT THEM. LOOK AT THE WAY THEY DRESS. OF COURSE THEY DID IT." 215 00:12:28,233 --> 00:12:30,667 I THOUGHT, "GOLLY, I'D BETTER STAY IN THE HOUSE THEN 216 00:12:30,667 --> 00:12:33,967 BECAUSE IT'S NOT SAFE FOR ME OUT THERE THEN." 217 00:12:33,967 --> 00:12:35,800 ( scattered laughter ) 218 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:39,967 Prichason: I THINK THAT'S A REAL TYPICAL SCENARIO PEOPLE GO THROUGH. 219 00:12:39,967 --> 00:12:44,333 UH, THEY FIRST JOIN THE LIST IS THAT-- "I WATCHED 'PARADISE LOST.' 220 00:12:44,333 --> 00:12:48,333 I ALSO WORE BLACK T-SHIRTS. I WAS AN ALIENATED TEENAGER." 221 00:12:48,333 --> 00:12:52,533 AND I THINK THAT MIGHT BE THE INITIAL ATTRACTION THAT BRINGS PEOPLE IN. 222 00:12:52,533 --> 00:12:56,700 BUT I THINK WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT AND THAT BRINGS PEOPLE TOGETHER 223 00:12:56,700 --> 00:12:59,166 TO THE POINT WHERE YOU TRAVEL ACROSS COUNTRY 224 00:12:59,166 --> 00:13:01,700 TO COME TO JONESBORO, ARKANSAS, 225 00:13:01,700 --> 00:13:03,600 ON YOUR WEEK OF VACATION 226 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,500 ARE THE MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES SUCH AS JUSTICE, 227 00:13:06,500 --> 00:13:11,400 SUCH AS A CORRUPT, INCOMPETENT POLICE FORCE 228 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,333 AND JUSTICE SYSTEM WORKING IN A VACUUM 229 00:13:14,333 --> 00:13:17,600 HERE IN ARKANSAS WHEN NOBODY'S WATCHING. THAT'S WHY I'M HERE. 230 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,333 I DON'T WANT THEM TO THINK THEY CAN OPERATE IN THE DARK, 231 00:13:20,333 --> 00:13:22,433 KIND OF LIKE A MUSHROOM, AND GROW. 232 00:13:29,967 --> 00:13:34,934 NO ONE ENJOYS SENTENCING SOMEBODY TO DEATH. 233 00:13:34,934 --> 00:13:39,867 NOBODY ENJOYS HAVING TO GO THROUGH THE-- 234 00:13:39,867 --> 00:13:42,900 THE TRIAL. THAT'S WHY THEY CALL IT A "TRIAL," I GUESS, 235 00:13:42,900 --> 00:13:44,800 BECAUSE IT IS 236 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,233 HEART-JERKING 237 00:13:47,233 --> 00:13:49,600 AND DIFFICULT TO DEAL WITH. 238 00:13:52,233 --> 00:13:56,533 WHEN YOU READ THOSE WORDS IMPOSING THE DEATH SENTENCE, 239 00:13:56,533 --> 00:13:59,033 I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS VISIBLE, 240 00:13:59,033 --> 00:14:01,033 BUT THERE WAS A CATCH IN MY THROAT. 241 00:14:01,033 --> 00:14:05,100 I COULD FEEL IT AND CERTAINLY YOU'VE HAD THOSE FEELINGS. 242 00:14:05,100 --> 00:14:06,967 IT'S HARD. 243 00:14:06,967 --> 00:14:10,633 ALL RIGHT, GENTLEMEN, IF YOU'D HAVE YOUR CLIENTS STAND, PLEASE. 244 00:14:10,633 --> 00:14:14,667 ALL RIGHT, MR. ECHOLS, THE JURY HAVING FOUND YOU GUILTY OF CAPITAL MURDER, 245 00:14:14,667 --> 00:14:17,000 THREE COUNTS IN THE DEATH OF MICHAEL MOORE, 246 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,633 CHRIS BYERS AND STEVE BRANCH, 247 00:14:19,633 --> 00:14:21,533 YOU ARE TO BE IMMEDIATELY TRANSPORTED 248 00:14:21,533 --> 00:14:23,700 TO THE ARKANSAS DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS, 249 00:14:23,700 --> 00:14:28,734 WHERE THE DIRECTOR OR HIS DULY-APPOINTED AND DESIGNATED REPRESENTATIVE WILL-- 250 00:14:28,734 --> 00:14:31,333 ( clears throat ) ON THE 5th DAY OF MAY OF 1994, 251 00:14:31,333 --> 00:14:33,900 WILL BE DIRECTED TO CAUSE TO BE ADMINISTERED 252 00:14:33,900 --> 00:14:36,233 A CONTINUOUS INTRAVENOUS INJECTION 253 00:14:36,233 --> 00:14:38,166 OF A LETHAL QUANTITY 254 00:14:38,166 --> 00:14:41,700 OF AN ULTRASHORT-ACTING BARBITURATE 255 00:14:41,700 --> 00:14:44,934 IN COMBINATION WITH A CHEMICAL PARALYTIC AGENT 256 00:14:44,934 --> 00:14:48,333 INTO YOUR BODY UNTIL YOU ARE DEAD. 257 00:14:48,333 --> 00:14:51,667 THERE'S NEVER BEEN A MOMENT 258 00:14:51,667 --> 00:14:54,567 THAT I'VE EVER DOUBTED 259 00:14:54,567 --> 00:14:58,967 THAT WE DID NOT ARREST THE RIGHT INDIVIDUALS. 260 00:14:58,967 --> 00:15:00,400 NEVER IN MY MIND. 261 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,400 THERE'S NEVER BEEN A DOUBT. 262 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,500 I CAN GO TO BED AT NIGHT AND SLEEP, 263 00:15:04,500 --> 00:15:07,734 KNOWING THAT I DID MY JOB AND DID IT WELL. 264 00:15:07,734 --> 00:15:09,767 IF THERE WAS A DOUBT IN MY MIND, 265 00:15:09,767 --> 00:15:11,934 I WOULD STILL BE ON THE POLICE DEPARTMENT 266 00:15:11,934 --> 00:15:14,133 AND I'D STILL BE WORKING THE CASE. 267 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,166 This is Detective Bryn Ridge 268 00:15:27,166 --> 00:15:29,133 of the West Memphis Police Department 269 00:15:29,133 --> 00:15:30,600 conducting an investigation 270 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,934 of the circumstance of triple homicide 271 00:15:32,934 --> 00:15:37,033 case file number 9305-0-6-6-6, 272 00:15:37,033 --> 00:15:39,333 currently in the office with 273 00:15:39,333 --> 00:15:43,967 Jessie Lloyd Misskelley, Jr. 274 00:15:43,967 --> 00:15:46,500 What occurred while you were there? 275 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,834 Ridge: What did he hit him with? 276 00:16:16,133 --> 00:16:19,100 WELL, I WAS TELLING THEM, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THAT. 277 00:16:19,100 --> 00:16:21,867 AND THEY JUST KEPT ON EGGING IT ON, EGGING IT ON, EGGING ON. 278 00:16:21,867 --> 00:16:25,066 FINALLY I JUST-- JUST SAID SOMETHING WHERE THEY WOULD JUST LEAVE ME ALONE. 279 00:16:25,066 --> 00:16:27,667 FINALLY I TOLD THEM, YOU KNOW, I CHASED THEM AND EVERYTHING 280 00:16:27,667 --> 00:16:29,500 AND CAUGHT THEM AND BROUGHT THEM BACK. 281 00:16:29,500 --> 00:16:32,000 BUT NONE OF THAT HAPPENED. 282 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:36,100 YOU KNOW, YOU JUST-- YOU CAN'T KILL NOBODY 283 00:16:36,100 --> 00:16:39,200 AND DON'T LEAVE NO EVIDENCE. YOU CAN'T DO IT. 284 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:43,333 YOU KNOW, I DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE, YOU CANNOT DO THAT. 285 00:16:43,333 --> 00:16:46,400 YOU KNOW, THERE WAS NO BLOOD, NO FINGERPRINTS, 286 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,967 NO NOTHING AT THE CRIME SCENE. 287 00:16:48,967 --> 00:16:51,266 YOU JUST CAN'T KILL NOBODY LIKE THAT. 288 00:16:51,266 --> 00:16:55,166 I DON'T CARE IF YOU'RE... 289 00:16:55,166 --> 00:16:57,233 A GENIUS OR NOTHING, 290 00:16:57,233 --> 00:16:59,200 YOU JUST CAN'T DO THAT. 291 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,700 Dan Stidham: INSPECTOR, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE THINGS THAT JESSIE TOLD YOU 292 00:17:02,700 --> 00:17:04,934 THAT ARE JUST ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT. 293 00:17:04,934 --> 00:17:08,200 NOW ON PAGE 9 OF HIS STATEMENT, INSPECTOR GITCHELL, 294 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,100 JESSIE SAYS THAT THE MURDERS TOOK PLACE AROUND NOON. 295 00:17:11,100 --> 00:17:13,266 HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT WAS INCORRECT? 296 00:17:13,266 --> 00:17:17,133 BECAUSE THE BOYS WERE-- THE YOUNG BOYS WERE STILL IN SCHOOL. 297 00:17:17,133 --> 00:17:19,767 DID AT ANY TIME WHEN HE WAS TELLING YOU THESE THINGS 298 00:17:19,767 --> 00:17:21,800 THAT YOU KNEW WERE INCORRECT, 299 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,967 DID IT EVER OCCUR TO YOU THAT WHAT HE WAS TELLING YOU WAS FALSE? 300 00:17:24,967 --> 00:17:26,900 HIS ENTIRE STORY WAS FALSE? 301 00:17:26,900 --> 00:17:29,600 UH, JESSIE SIMPLY GOT CONFUSED. 302 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,066 THIS IS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE 303 00:17:32,066 --> 00:17:35,600 OF HOW POLICE CAN PRODUCE A FALSE CONFESSION. 304 00:17:37,133 --> 00:17:40,066 THEY THREATEN JESSIE. THEY TELL HIM THAT HE KNOWS THINGS, 305 00:17:40,066 --> 00:17:43,467 THAT THEY KNOW HE KNOWS. THEY USE THE POLYGRAPH. 306 00:17:43,467 --> 00:17:47,000 THEY TELL HIM THAT HE'S FLUNKED THE POLYGRAPH WHEN HE DIDN'T. 307 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:51,500 THEY USE THAT TO CONVINCE HIM THAT HIS SITUATION IS HOPELESS. 308 00:17:51,500 --> 00:17:56,300 THEY UPSET HIM ENORMOUSLY BY SHOWING HIM THESE HORRIBLE PHOTOGRAPHS 309 00:17:56,300 --> 00:17:58,066 OF THESE DEAD CHILDREN. 310 00:17:58,066 --> 00:18:00,333 AND THEN THEY GIVE HIM THE OPTION 311 00:18:00,333 --> 00:18:04,734 OF BEING WITH THE BAD GUYS, WITH THE CONSEQUENCES OF THAT, 312 00:18:04,734 --> 00:18:06,400 OR JOINING THE POLICE. 313 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,200 AND AT THIS POINT, ALL HE WANTS TO DO 314 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,533 IS GET OUT FROM UNDER THE PRESSURE. 315 00:18:11,533 --> 00:18:15,000 SO NOW ALL HE HAS TO DO IS AGREE WITH WHAT THEY TELL HIM 316 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,734 AND THAT'S HOW THEY SET IT UP. 317 00:18:16,734 --> 00:18:20,900 INITIALLY, THEY'RE GOING FOR A FALSE WITNESS STATEMENT. 318 00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:24,367 BUT ONCE THEY HAVE HIM TALKING, IT'S NOT DIFFICULT 319 00:18:24,367 --> 00:18:28,900 TO GET HIM TO AGREE TO THINGS THAT WILL MAKE HIM APPEAR TO BE 320 00:18:28,900 --> 00:18:31,767 A PARTICIPANT IN THE CRIME. 321 00:18:31,767 --> 00:18:36,433 John Fogleman: OUT OF THE 100 OR MORE PEOPLE THAT Y'ALL TALKED TO, 322 00:18:36,433 --> 00:18:39,300 ARE YOU AWARE OF ANYBODY OTHER THAN THE DEFENDANT 323 00:18:39,300 --> 00:18:42,734 WHO TOLD YOU ONE OF THE VICTIMS 324 00:18:42,734 --> 00:18:46,233 THAT HAD THEIR GENITALS REMOVED 325 00:18:46,233 --> 00:18:48,934 AND ONE OF THEM HAD CUTS TO THE SIDE OF THE FACE 326 00:18:48,934 --> 00:18:51,567 AND THERE HAD BEEN SOME GRABBING OF THE EARS? 327 00:18:51,567 --> 00:18:54,333 UH, THERE WAS NO ONE ELSE THAT MENTIONED 328 00:18:54,333 --> 00:18:56,433 THOSE PARTICULAR INJURIES. 329 00:18:56,433 --> 00:18:59,066 Fogleman: WAS THERE ANY KIND OF EMOTIONAL RESPONSE? 330 00:18:59,066 --> 00:19:01,133 HE HAD TEARS COMING DOWN HIS EYES. 331 00:19:01,133 --> 00:19:05,266 - HAD YOU ALL YELLED AT HIM OR BEEN MEAN TO HIM... - NO SIR. 332 00:19:05,266 --> 00:19:08,867 ...OR THREATENED HIM OR PROMISED HIM ANYTHING? DONE ANY OF THOSE THINGS? 333 00:19:08,867 --> 00:19:11,633 - NONE OF THOSE THINGS HAPPENED WHATSOEVER. - ALL RIGHT. 334 00:19:11,633 --> 00:19:14,100 ( music playing ) 335 00:19:32,233 --> 00:19:36,433 I WAS DOWN AT THE PRISON A COUPLE WEEKS AGO SEEING JESSIE 336 00:19:36,433 --> 00:19:40,200 AND HE TELLS ME THAT YOU COME DOWN ABOUT EVERY SUNDAY. 337 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,800 YEAH, I TRY TO BOOST HIS MORALE UP. 338 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,667 JUST HANG IN THERE FOR ME. WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN. 339 00:19:45,667 --> 00:19:49,533 SOMETIMES IT SEEMS THAT THINGS ARE KIND OF PROGRESSING AT A SNAIL'S PACE 340 00:19:49,533 --> 00:19:52,000 BUT THAT'S UNFORTUNATELY THE WHEELS OF JUSTICE. 341 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,300 - THERE IS NO JUSTICE. - WELL, I GOT TO TELL YOU THAT I HAD TO ASK MYSELF 342 00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:58,133 WHETHER I STILL WANTED TO BE A LAWYER. 343 00:19:58,133 --> 00:19:59,934 BUT IT JUST LIT A BIGGER FIRE UNDER ME 344 00:19:59,934 --> 00:20:02,266 AND MADE ME WANT TO GET UP AND FIGHT THAT MUCH MORE. 345 00:20:02,266 --> 00:20:04,667 WELL, THEY DIDN'T LET YOU PRESENT YOUR CASE 346 00:20:04,667 --> 00:20:06,667 UP THERE IN COURT, I NOTICED THAT. 347 00:20:06,667 --> 00:20:09,667 BUT WE'VE GOT TO HAVE HOPE. WITHOUT HOPE WE DON'T HAVE A CHANCE. 348 00:20:09,667 --> 00:20:11,800 I MADE A PROMISE TO THAT KID OF YOURS 349 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:13,633 THAT I'D NEVER GIVE UP THE FIGHT 350 00:20:13,633 --> 00:20:15,834 AND I DON'T INTEND TO DO THAT. 351 00:20:15,834 --> 00:20:18,867 MAYBE THE QUICKEST WAY TO GET JESSIE OUT OF THAT PRISON 352 00:20:18,867 --> 00:20:20,300 IS TO CATCH A KILLER. 353 00:20:20,300 --> 00:20:24,367 YEAH WELL, I THINK EVERYBODY KNOWS WHO DONE IT. 354 00:20:24,367 --> 00:20:28,500 BUT THE-- AIN'T NOBODY SAYING ANYTHING. 355 00:20:31,700 --> 00:20:34,433 Leveri IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND, CAN YOU ALL-- YOU THREE, 356 00:20:34,433 --> 00:20:38,900 TELL US HOW-- WHAT THE GENESIS OF THE LIST AND THE WEBSITE AND EVERYTHING. 357 00:20:38,900 --> 00:20:43,066 HOW YOU CAME TO CREATE IT? 358 00:20:43,066 --> 00:20:45,700 I SAW THE MOVIE-- I GOT AN ADVANCE SCREENER 359 00:20:45,700 --> 00:20:47,867 BECAUSE I WORK FOR AN ADVERTISING AGENCY. 360 00:20:47,867 --> 00:20:50,633 AND WE WORKED ON THE KEY ART, 361 00:20:50,633 --> 00:20:52,333 WHICH IS LIKE THE MOVIE POSTER ART. 362 00:20:52,333 --> 00:20:55,433 SO I SAW IT ABOUT THREE OR FOUR MONTHS BEFORE IT ACTUALLY AIRED. 363 00:20:55,433 --> 00:20:57,233 WE SAW THE FILM TOGETHER, KATHY AND I. 364 00:20:57,233 --> 00:21:00,667 AND WE IMMEDIATELY SAW IT AND SAID, "OH, GOSH, BURK WOULD PROBABLY LIKE THIS." 365 00:21:00,667 --> 00:21:02,467 ( laughter ) 366 00:21:02,467 --> 00:21:03,934 ACTUALLY NOT LIKE IT. 367 00:21:03,934 --> 00:21:05,834 BUT, UH-- SO WE HANDED IT OVER TO BURK 368 00:21:05,834 --> 00:21:08,633 AND THEN BURK TOOK A COPY OF IT AND WATCHED IT. 369 00:21:08,633 --> 00:21:10,533 AND I THINK ABOUT FOUR DAYS LATER, 370 00:21:10,533 --> 00:21:12,633 NOT ONLY HAD BURK SEEN THE FILM, 371 00:21:12,633 --> 00:21:15,400 HE'D ALREADY FOUND A BOOK IN A USED BOOKSTORE ON THE CASE. 372 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,133 AND HE CALLED US UP AND HE SAYS, "THESE GUYS ARE INNOCENT." 373 00:21:18,133 --> 00:21:20,667 Sauls: I GOT ON THIS CRUSADE 374 00:21:20,667 --> 00:21:23,333 TO FIND EVERY SCRAP OF INFORMATION I COULD. 375 00:21:23,333 --> 00:21:27,800 AND WE GOT ALL THE-- ALL THE DOCUMENTS WE COULD GET OUR HANDS ON. 376 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,900 AND IT BECAME AN OBSESSIVE TYPE OF-- 377 00:21:30,900 --> 00:21:33,367 LIKE A COLLECTOR'S TYPE THING 378 00:21:33,367 --> 00:21:34,800 WHERE WE WERE EACH-- 379 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,967 WE'D GET ANOTHER TINY SCRAP OF INFORMATION 380 00:21:36,967 --> 00:21:38,867 AND WE'D ADD IT TO THE ARCHIVE ON THE WEB. 381 00:21:38,867 --> 00:21:40,433 AND WE DECIDED TO MAKE IT PUBLIC TOO. 382 00:21:40,433 --> 00:21:43,166 WE WANTED IT TO NOT JUST BE IN OUR OWN LITTLE FILING CABINETS, 383 00:21:43,166 --> 00:21:45,633 BUT WE SAID, "LET'S GIVE THIS TO EVERYBODY." 384 00:21:45,633 --> 00:21:47,834 AFTER A WHILE IT BECAME APPARENT THAT 385 00:21:47,834 --> 00:21:50,200 NO ONE HAD ACTUALLY LOOKED AT EVIDENCE 386 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,467 AND PUT TOGETHER A SCENARIO THAT MADE SENSE. 387 00:21:53,467 --> 00:21:56,700 AND SO WE STARTED DOING MORE RESEARCH ABOUT, YOU KNOW, 388 00:21:56,700 --> 00:21:59,700 INVESTIGATION AND HOMICIDE AND FORENSICS. 389 00:21:59,700 --> 00:22:03,100 AND WE CAME ACROSS A WEBSITE 390 00:22:03,100 --> 00:22:06,100 THAT ACTUALLY GAVE FORENSIC AND INVESTIGATIVE CLASSES, 391 00:22:06,100 --> 00:22:09,400 LIKE CRIMINAL PROFILING AND HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION 392 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,467 AND THAT KIND OF THING. 393 00:22:11,467 --> 00:22:15,166 SO I THOUGHT IT WOULD HELP ME IN UNDERSTANDING THE CASE MORE IF I TOOK THESE CLASSES. 394 00:22:15,166 --> 00:22:17,567 SO I JUST STARTED TAKING THE CLASSES AND... 395 00:22:17,567 --> 00:22:19,400 AND IN DOING SO I READ ALL THE ARTICLES 396 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,133 THAT BRENT TURVEY HAD WRITTEN. 397 00:22:21,133 --> 00:22:24,700 HE'S THE GUY THAT GIVES THE CLASSES THROUGH "KNOWLEDGE SOLUTIONS" 398 00:22:24,700 --> 00:22:27,000 AND I LIKED HIS PHILOSOPHY. 399 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,867 IT MADE SENSE. IT WAS ABOUT EVIDENCE. 400 00:22:28,867 --> 00:22:31,567 IT WAS CRIMINAL PROFILING AS IT RELATES TO EVIDENCE. 401 00:22:31,567 --> 00:22:33,567 AND I THOUGHT, MAYBE THIS IS WHAT WE NEED, 402 00:22:33,567 --> 00:22:36,700 SOMEONE WHO COULD TAKE THIS EVIDENCE AND TELL US WHAT HAPPENED. 403 00:22:36,700 --> 00:22:38,734 BECAUSE THAT'S ALL WE WANT TO KNOW-- 404 00:22:38,734 --> 00:22:40,600 GUILTY OR INNOCENT I JUST WANT TO KNOW. 405 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,400 SO I CALLED HIM UP AND I STARTED EXPLAINING THE CASE 406 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:49,233 AND HE JUST SAID, "STOP," YOU KNOW, "GET THE LAWYERS. TELL THEM TO CALL ME." 407 00:22:49,233 --> 00:22:53,166 AND SO I DID AND THEN THE REST IS HISTORY. 408 00:22:56,367 --> 00:22:58,867 ( door opens, closes ) 409 00:22:58,867 --> 00:23:01,300 - Stidham: HEY. - Man: HI, DAN, HOW ARE YOU? 410 00:23:01,300 --> 00:23:02,967 - NICE TO MEET YOU. - NICE TO MEET YOU. 411 00:23:02,967 --> 00:23:04,767 THIS IS MY WIFE AND BUSINESS PARTNER BARBARA. 412 00:23:04,767 --> 00:23:06,533 - NICE TO MEET YOU, BARBARA. - NICE TO MEET YOU. 413 00:23:06,533 --> 00:23:09,533 - SHE'S TAKING MY NOTES FOR ME SO OUR HANDS CAN BE FREE. - GREAT. 414 00:23:09,533 --> 00:23:12,834 WHAT IF I WERE TO PUT YOU OVER THERE BY THE EASEL SO YOU COULD USE THAT? 415 00:23:12,834 --> 00:23:15,767 GREAT! AN ASSORTMENT OF MARKERS HERE FOR ME. 416 00:23:15,767 --> 00:23:18,467 I WANT TO REALLY THANK YOU FOR AGREEING TO MEET ME HERE 417 00:23:18,467 --> 00:23:21,100 AND TALK ABOUT THIS. I-- I'VE BEEN WORKING 418 00:23:21,100 --> 00:23:24,667 ON THIS CASE FOR A LONG TIME. IT'S BEEN OVER FOUR YEARS. 419 00:23:24,667 --> 00:23:29,100 AND WHEN I GOT THE EMAIL FROM KATHY AT THE SUPPORT FUND, 420 00:23:29,100 --> 00:23:30,900 FOR THE FIRST TIME IN A LONG TIME 421 00:23:30,900 --> 00:23:32,767 I GOT TO SEE A RAY OF HOPE 422 00:23:32,767 --> 00:23:36,266 FOR SOME JUSTICE AND MAYBE HAVING THIS THING ANALYZED 423 00:23:36,266 --> 00:23:38,767 AND YOU DON'T HOW MUCH IT MEANS TO US. 424 00:23:38,767 --> 00:23:41,233 WE DIDN'T HAVE A BUDGET TO WORK WITH. 425 00:23:41,233 --> 00:23:43,967 WE DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO THIS KIND OF INFORMATION. 426 00:23:43,967 --> 00:23:46,100 WE TRIED TO GET IT, BUT WE JUST COULDN'T-- 427 00:23:46,100 --> 00:23:47,834 WE COULDN'T ACCOMPLISH IT. 428 00:23:47,834 --> 00:23:51,266 AND IT'S JUST-- UH, IT'S REALLY-- 429 00:23:51,266 --> 00:23:54,000 IT'S REALLY GOOD TO BE ABLE TO LOOK AT THIS STUFF NOW 430 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,133 AND ANALYZE IT, EVEN IF IT IS FOUR YEARS LATER. 431 00:23:56,133 --> 00:23:59,200 - DO YOU WANT TO GO RIGHT AND LOOK AT THE-- - SURE. 432 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,367 OKAY, I BROUGHT THE CRIME SCENE PHOTOS. 433 00:24:02,367 --> 00:24:04,500 IN EVERY OTHER CASE THAT I'VE WORKED ON, 434 00:24:04,500 --> 00:24:06,700 THE CRIME SCENE PHOTOS ARE ALWAYS THESE VERY-- 435 00:24:06,700 --> 00:24:09,867 THEY'RE LIKE ENDANGERED SPECIES. YOU KNOW, YOU NEVER SEE THEM. 436 00:24:09,867 --> 00:24:12,600 THE ACTUAL CRIME SCENE PHOTOS ARE KIND OF SPIRITED AWAY 437 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,800 AND WHAT THE DEFENSE USUALLY GETS IS NOTHING 438 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,633 OR COLOR PHOTOCOPIES THAT ARE REALLY BAD. 439 00:24:17,633 --> 00:24:20,000 IN THIS CASE, I WAS VERY SURPRISED TO RECEIVE 440 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,500 ALL OF THE ACTUAL CRIME SCENE PHOTOS. 441 00:24:22,500 --> 00:24:26,400 ONE OF THE CORNERSTONES OF THE PROSECUTION'S CASE 442 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,967 - WAS THAT THIS WAS A RITUALISTIC, SATANIC... - RIGHT. 443 00:24:29,967 --> 00:24:31,633 ...CULT HOMICIDE. 444 00:24:31,633 --> 00:24:35,233 DO YOU SEE ANYTHING HERE FROM THE CRIME-SCENE CHARACTERISTICS 445 00:24:35,233 --> 00:24:38,166 WHICH WOULD BE INDICATIVE 446 00:24:38,166 --> 00:24:40,633 OF SATANISM OR RITUALISTIC HOMICIDE 447 00:24:40,633 --> 00:24:43,000 BY A CULT OR ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE? 448 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,600 MOST CERTAINLY NOT. 449 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,433 THERE'S A DEFINITE LACK OF RITUAL ELEMENT TO THIS CRIME. 450 00:24:47,433 --> 00:24:49,867 IT'S VERY, UH-- IT'S VERY UNFOCUSED 451 00:24:49,867 --> 00:24:53,066 IN TERMS OF THE NATURE OF THE INJURIES. 452 00:24:53,066 --> 00:24:56,500 IT'S VERY MUCH A REACTIONARY TYPE OF BEHAVIOR, NOT RITUAL. 453 00:24:56,500 --> 00:24:59,533 AND THESE BEHAVIORS THAT WE SEE IN THIS CRIME TAKE TIME, 454 00:24:59,533 --> 00:25:01,500 SO IT WOULD NOT BE PLAUSIBLE 455 00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:03,600 FOR A SERIAL KILLER OR A SATANIC CULT GROUP 456 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,800 TO GRAB THESE VICTIMS BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT 457 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,166 THEY ARE GOING TO BE MISSED ALMOST IMMEDIATELY 458 00:25:08,166 --> 00:25:09,967 FROM THE MOMENT THAT THEY ARE ABDUCTED. 459 00:25:09,967 --> 00:25:12,033 AND WHOEVER DUMPED THE BODIES HERE 460 00:25:12,033 --> 00:25:14,333 KNEW THAT THIS PLACE WAS HERE. HE KNOWS THE AREA. 461 00:25:14,333 --> 00:25:17,467 THIS IS NOT SOMEPLACE THAT YOU CAN JUST FIND BEING A TRUCKER OFF THE HIGHWAY. 462 00:25:17,467 --> 00:25:19,800 YOU'VE GOT TO KNOW IT'S HERE. YOU'VE GOT TO BE ABLE 463 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:21,734 TO WALK IN, DUMP THE BODIES AND WALK OUT. 464 00:25:21,734 --> 00:25:23,767 YOU'VE GOT TO KNOW THAT THIS IS AVAILABLE. 465 00:25:23,767 --> 00:25:25,767 IT'S VERY CLEAR TO ME FROM THE EVIDENCE 466 00:25:25,767 --> 00:25:27,734 THAT, UH-- BUT WE CAN GET INTO THAT LATER-- 467 00:25:27,734 --> 00:25:29,700 THAT THE OFFENDER DID KNOW THE VICTIMS. 468 00:25:29,700 --> 00:25:31,767 ( phone ringing ) 469 00:25:39,367 --> 00:25:41,066 HELLO? 470 00:25:41,066 --> 00:25:44,233 Computer voice: This is the MCI operator. I have a collect call from... 471 00:25:44,233 --> 00:25:48,200 - Damien: Damien... - ...who is in an Arkansas correctional facility. 472 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,166 All calls other than properly-placed attorney calls 473 00:25:51,166 --> 00:25:52,767 will be monitored and recorded. 474 00:25:52,767 --> 00:25:54,333 Bakken: ALL RIGHT. 475 00:25:54,333 --> 00:25:56,967 - Damien: Am I on speakerphone? - Bakken: YEAH. YEP. 476 00:25:56,967 --> 00:25:59,033 - Awwww! - Pashley: HOW YOU DOING? 477 00:25:59,033 --> 00:26:01,000 - Damien: All right. - ( typing ) 478 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,767 Sauls: SO THERE'S LIKE ABOUT 15 PEOPLE SAYING "HELLO" RIGHT NOW. 479 00:26:03,767 --> 00:26:06,834 - Pashley: HELLO, DAMIEN. - Hello, Grove. 480 00:26:06,834 --> 00:26:09,300 EVERYBODY'S SAYING "HELLO" NOW. 481 00:26:09,300 --> 00:26:11,200 "HI, HELLO, HELLO, HI." 482 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,033 How many of them is it on there now? 483 00:26:13,033 --> 00:26:14,867 25. 484 00:26:14,867 --> 00:26:19,066 I JUST PUT IN THE CALL FOR QUESTIONS ON THE DISCUSSION GROUP. 485 00:26:19,066 --> 00:26:20,567 Okay. 486 00:26:20,567 --> 00:26:21,967 BEASTIE WANTS TO KNOW: 487 00:26:21,967 --> 00:26:25,066 "I TEACH AT A UNIVERSITY AND TELL MY STUDENTS ABOUT YOUR CASE. 488 00:26:25,066 --> 00:26:27,467 WHAT WOULD YOU MOST LIKE THEM TO KNOW ABOUT YOU?" 489 00:26:27,467 --> 00:26:30,900 That I am neither a freak nor a monster. 490 00:26:32,333 --> 00:26:36,166 Um, that I was basically a victim of circumstance, 491 00:26:36,166 --> 00:26:39,200 that anyone could have end-- 492 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,400 end up in the same situation that I am in. 493 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,133 Bakken: "YOU EVER-- DOES THE REALITY OF BEING EXECUTED 494 00:26:45,133 --> 00:26:48,400 EVER BOTHER YOU? LIKE, DO YOU EVER THINK THAT'S GONNA HAPPEN?" 495 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,100 I guess, yeah. It-- it bothers me sometimes. 496 00:26:51,100 --> 00:26:56,100 It doesn't bother me in the area of being afraid to die. 497 00:26:56,100 --> 00:27:00,266 What bothers me is leaving so much left undone, 498 00:27:00,266 --> 00:27:03,967 and that us three being behind bars 499 00:27:03,967 --> 00:27:06,066 or even sentenced to death 500 00:27:06,066 --> 00:27:08,166 or being in prison for the rest of our lives, 501 00:27:08,166 --> 00:27:12,233 that is not going to, in any way, bring about justice, 502 00:27:12,233 --> 00:27:14,867 because we didn't kill those children. 503 00:27:14,867 --> 00:27:18,633 I think it's pretty sad that society can evolve 504 00:27:18,633 --> 00:27:22,300 to the stage that it has, yet still be barbaric enough 505 00:27:22,300 --> 00:27:27,200 that it puts innocent people like myself, Jason Baldwin 506 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,667 and even Jessie Misskelley in prison 507 00:27:29,667 --> 00:27:31,467 and can even sentence you to death 508 00:27:31,467 --> 00:27:34,867 while the real killer still walks the streets. 509 00:27:41,066 --> 00:27:43,467 ( thunder rumbling ) 510 00:27:46,567 --> 00:27:49,300 YOU KNOW, HERE'S WHERE I LIVE TODAY-- 511 00:27:49,300 --> 00:27:51,000 NUMBER 11. 512 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,834 AN APARTMENT SOMEWHERE IN THE STATE OF ARKANSAS. 513 00:27:55,834 --> 00:27:57,333 THAT'S GOOD ENOUGH. 514 00:27:57,333 --> 00:28:01,266 I CAME FROM A REAL NICE BIG HOME 515 00:28:01,266 --> 00:28:05,200 WITH ALL THE AMENITIES AND LUXURIES THAT YOU COULD HAVE 516 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:06,834 TO WHAT I LIKE TO CALL 517 00:28:06,834 --> 00:28:10,867 "MY HUMBLE MODEST STUDIO APARTMENT;" 518 00:28:10,867 --> 00:28:13,400 A GIANT 300 SQUARE FEET; 519 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,066 A BEDROOM, A LIVING ROOM, A KITCHEN AND A BATHROOM. 520 00:28:16,066 --> 00:28:17,800 BUT THERE'S BENEFITS TO IT. 521 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:19,834 IT TAKES ME FIVE MINUTES TO VACUUM, 522 00:28:19,834 --> 00:28:22,233 FIVE MINUTES FOR THE AIR CONDITIONER TO COOL THE PLACE DOWN 523 00:28:22,233 --> 00:28:25,467 AND I DON'T HAVE TO WALK FAR TO GO TO THE BATHROOM. 524 00:28:25,467 --> 00:28:28,600 SO IT'S A GOOD LITTLE SPOT TO LIVE, TO BE BY YOURSELF, 525 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,967 TO CONTROL YOUR THOUGHTS, YOUR EMOTIONS, 526 00:28:30,967 --> 00:28:34,900 AND TO LIVE THE REST OF MY LIFE AS GOD SEES FIT. 527 00:28:34,900 --> 00:28:36,500 ( thunder rumbles ) 528 00:28:36,500 --> 00:28:39,800 AS I LOOK AT ALL THESE DARK CLOUDS ROAMING IN ON ME TODAY, 529 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,033 IT CAN VERY EASILY REMIND ME 530 00:28:42,033 --> 00:28:45,100 OF MAY 5th, 1993. 531 00:28:45,100 --> 00:28:47,533 THIS HALF WAS A BRIGHT SUNSHINY DAY. 532 00:28:47,533 --> 00:28:50,800 THIS HALF BECAME GLOOM AND DOOM 533 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,867 AND AS THE DEATH AND DESTRUCTION 534 00:28:53,867 --> 00:28:56,066 ROLLED INTO WEST MEMPHIS, ARKANSAS, 535 00:28:56,066 --> 00:28:59,667 AND CONSUMED THREE BABIES' LIFE AND KILLED THEM, 536 00:28:59,667 --> 00:29:03,467 IT'S KIND OF LIKE THIS CLOUD FRONT IS ROLLING IN 537 00:29:03,467 --> 00:29:06,166 AND COOLING OFF TODAY AND CONSUMING ME 538 00:29:06,166 --> 00:29:10,100 AS I STAND HERE IN THE WIND AMIDST THE STORM. 539 00:29:10,100 --> 00:29:13,467 AND THE STORM IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN IN FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS. 540 00:29:13,467 --> 00:29:16,900 BUT THANK GOD THERE'S A BRIGHT SIDE ON THE OTHER SIDE. 541 00:29:16,900 --> 00:29:19,300 I'VE BEEN DOWN IN A LOT OF LOW VALLEYS 542 00:29:19,300 --> 00:29:22,100 AND PEOPLE HAVE TRIED TO TAKE ME OUT, 543 00:29:22,100 --> 00:29:23,834 BUT I'M STILL HERE, 544 00:29:23,834 --> 00:29:27,233 JESSIE, JASON, DAMIEN. 545 00:29:27,233 --> 00:29:30,433 THOSE NAMES RING IN MY EARS DAILY 546 00:29:30,433 --> 00:29:32,266 AND I STILL HATE YOU. 547 00:29:32,266 --> 00:29:35,166 FOREVER AND A DAY SHALL I STILL HATE YOU. 548 00:29:36,900 --> 00:29:39,567 Baldwin: BYERS, WHEN HE'S RUNNING AROUND, CUSSING ME 549 00:29:39,567 --> 00:29:41,867 AND TELLING ME THAT I SHOULD GO TO HELL AND STUFF, 550 00:29:41,867 --> 00:29:44,433 IT SEEMS LIKE HE'S PLAY-ACTING. 551 00:29:44,433 --> 00:29:47,166 YOU KNOW, TRYING TO DIVERT THE ATTENTION-- 552 00:29:47,166 --> 00:29:51,300 TRYING TO PLAY THE ROLE THAT HE SHOULD BE-- OF AN ANGERED PARENT, 553 00:29:51,300 --> 00:29:54,166 WHEN REALLY HE'S-- REALLY I BELIEVE 554 00:29:54,166 --> 00:29:56,734 HE'S THE ONE THAT DID IT. 555 00:29:56,734 --> 00:29:59,500 The murders of three West Memphis boys last year 556 00:29:59,500 --> 00:30:01,166 shocked all of Region 8. 557 00:30:01,166 --> 00:30:03,100 During the trials earlier this year, 558 00:30:03,100 --> 00:30:05,200 we empathized with the parents and relatives 559 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:06,600 of those little boys. 560 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,200 And because of television, 561 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,266 we were able to see and hear the emotions 562 00:30:10,266 --> 00:30:12,100 those parents were going through. 563 00:30:12,100 --> 00:30:13,867 Now the parents of one of the boys 564 00:30:13,867 --> 00:30:18,166 find themselves once again under public scrutiny. Jenna? 565 00:30:18,166 --> 00:30:20,266 Since the trials, the Byers moved 566 00:30:20,266 --> 00:30:23,066 from West Memphis to Cherokee Village. 567 00:30:23,066 --> 00:30:25,367 Now they say they wanted to start a new life, 568 00:30:25,367 --> 00:30:28,000 but now they face criminal charges. 569 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,667 They're accused of taking $20,000 worth of property 570 00:30:31,667 --> 00:30:33,867 from a neighbor's house. 571 00:30:33,867 --> 00:30:37,300 Police have witnesses who claim they saw the Byers 572 00:30:37,300 --> 00:30:40,100 loading stolen items into their pickup truck. 573 00:30:40,100 --> 00:30:42,333 And when police searched the Byers' house, 574 00:30:42,333 --> 00:30:44,200 they found a few of them. 575 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,166 Mark and Melissa Byers face additional charges 576 00:30:47,166 --> 00:30:48,900 in their old home town. 577 00:30:48,900 --> 00:30:52,734 West Memphis police have 13 warrants for the Byers 578 00:30:52,734 --> 00:30:56,967 for allegedly writing over $700 in bad checks. 579 00:30:56,967 --> 00:30:59,133 The Byers also face other charges. 580 00:30:59,133 --> 00:31:01,900 When they moved to Cherokee Village, 581 00:31:01,900 --> 00:31:04,667 the Byers became good friends with their neighbors, 582 00:31:04,667 --> 00:31:06,700 John and Donna Kingsbury. 583 00:31:06,700 --> 00:31:10,800 Problems began when Mark spanked the Kingsbury's five-year-old. 584 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:12,567 I took the fly swatter and I just-- 585 00:31:12,567 --> 00:31:14,600 on the-- just the plastic end, 586 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,367 just on the back of his blue jeans. 587 00:31:16,367 --> 00:31:19,800 I said, "Now you get home. You've been a bad boy." 588 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,367 But the Kingsburys say the whipping bruised their son. 589 00:31:23,367 --> 00:31:25,200 We did have to have a restraining order 590 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:30,033 put on them, because I was worried about my family. 591 00:31:30,033 --> 00:31:33,233 Newton: Mark Byers' problems began in July. 592 00:31:33,233 --> 00:31:35,633 He's been charged with contributing 593 00:31:35,633 --> 00:31:37,433 to the delinquency of a minor. 594 00:31:37,433 --> 00:31:40,200 Police say he stood by holding a gun 595 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,567 and allowed a teenaged friend to assault John Shaver, Jr. 596 00:31:44,567 --> 00:31:46,066 According to a police report, 597 00:31:46,066 --> 00:31:49,667 the teenager used a closed pocket knife in his fist 598 00:31:49,667 --> 00:31:51,100 to assault Shaver. 599 00:31:51,100 --> 00:31:54,567 The fight sent Shaver to the hospital with a concussion. 600 00:31:54,567 --> 00:31:57,567 Byers admits the knife was his. 601 00:31:57,567 --> 00:32:00,500 He also admits there was a gun in his car. 602 00:32:00,500 --> 00:32:02,834 The Shavers say Byers used the gun 603 00:32:02,834 --> 00:32:06,066 to prevent bystanders from stopping the fight. 604 00:32:06,066 --> 00:32:07,467 I think I'd be extremely... 605 00:32:07,467 --> 00:32:10,033 Newton: Shaver's father believes this raises 606 00:32:10,033 --> 00:32:12,066 serious questions about Byers. 607 00:32:12,066 --> 00:32:15,533 There's a lot of people that's talked to me about it, which, I hate to say it, 608 00:32:15,533 --> 00:32:19,100 but they think maybe he might have had something to do with the-- those murders. 609 00:32:19,100 --> 00:32:22,433 Newton: Mark Byers says that's ridiculous, 610 00:32:22,433 --> 00:32:25,967 but these charges and the questions they dredge up 611 00:32:25,967 --> 00:32:29,700 may stick with this family forever. 612 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:50,367 PEOPLE ARE PLACING A LOT OF EMPHASIS ON MARK 613 00:32:50,367 --> 00:32:53,000 AND COULD HE HAVE BEEN A SUSPECT. 614 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:57,100 AND THERE AGAIN IT'S THE SAME QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED TO ME, 615 00:32:57,100 --> 00:33:00,700 "DID WE PICK DAMIEN UP BECAUSE HE LOOKED WEIRD?" 616 00:33:00,700 --> 00:33:02,400 WELL, ARE WE ACCUSING MARK BYERS 617 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,834 BECAUSE HE HAS A PONYTAIL AND LOOKS A LITTLE WEIRD 618 00:33:05,834 --> 00:33:09,934 AND HE'S A BIG KIND OF GUY AND IS KIND OF BOISTEROUS? 619 00:33:09,934 --> 00:33:11,667 I MEAN, IS THAT WHY HE'S LABELED AS 620 00:33:11,667 --> 00:33:14,667 HAVING SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT? NO. 621 00:33:14,667 --> 00:33:18,333 YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE FACTS AND THE FACTS ARE 622 00:33:18,333 --> 00:33:21,266 THE THREE THAT WE ARRESTED AND THAT HAVE BEEN CONVICTED 623 00:33:21,266 --> 00:33:22,900 ARE THE ONES THAT DID THIS. 624 00:33:22,900 --> 00:33:26,066 MARK BYERS DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS CRIME AT ALL. 625 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,000 WHO DID YOU RECEIVE THIS KNIFE FROM? 626 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,667 I RECEIVED IT FROM, UH UH-- 627 00:33:51,667 --> 00:33:54,567 HOW DID I ACTUALLY RECEIVE IT? 628 00:33:54,567 --> 00:33:56,934 NO, WHO DID YOU RECEIVE THE KNIFE FROM? 629 00:33:56,934 --> 00:34:00,867 I RECEIVED IT FROM, UH, JOE, 630 00:34:00,867 --> 00:34:04,834 AND THE PEOPLE WITH HBO PRODUCTIONS. 631 00:34:04,834 --> 00:34:08,800 HERE, THIS RED AREA HERE, 632 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,233 THIS IS THE SHAFT OF THE PENIS 633 00:34:11,233 --> 00:34:14,033 AND HERE IS WHERE THE SCROTAL SACK AND TESTES SHOULD BE 634 00:34:14,033 --> 00:34:15,467 AND THEY'RE MISSING. 635 00:34:15,467 --> 00:34:18,400 SO WHAT WE HAVE IS THAT THE SKIN OVERLYING THE PENIS 636 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,567 AND THE HEAD OF THE PENIS HAS BEEN CARVED OFF. 637 00:34:20,567 --> 00:34:21,967 IT'S GONE. IT'S NOT THERE. 638 00:34:21,967 --> 00:34:26,900 YOU CAN SEE, THIS IS PROBABLY THE SINGLE WORST CASE 639 00:34:26,900 --> 00:34:30,166 OF SEXUAL MUTILATION I'VE SEEN. 640 00:34:30,166 --> 00:34:32,767 THIS STAB WOUND RIGHT HERE? 641 00:34:32,767 --> 00:34:34,100 THIS ONE RIGHT HERE. 642 00:34:34,100 --> 00:34:36,400 IT'S A NICE ELLIPTICAL SHAPE THERE? 643 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,300 NICE STAB WOUND RIGHT THERE? 644 00:34:38,300 --> 00:34:41,767 SEE THOSE LITTLE SORT OF ABRASIONS 645 00:34:41,767 --> 00:34:44,333 THAT COME ALONG THE TOP THERE AND OFF THE SIDE THERE? 646 00:34:44,333 --> 00:34:47,934 - Stidham: UH-HUH. - THOSE INDICATE MOVEMENT. 647 00:34:47,934 --> 00:34:51,400 NOW THAT IS EITHER THE PERSON STABBING THE KNIFE IN AND TWISTING IT, 648 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,633 OR THE PERSON WHO IS BEING STABBED IS MOVING. 649 00:34:53,633 --> 00:34:55,867 AND A LOT OF THEM, UH, AT ALL KINDS OF FUNNY ANGLES 650 00:34:55,867 --> 00:34:58,266 MEAN TO ME THAT THE KID WAS MOVING AROUND. 651 00:34:58,266 --> 00:35:01,734 DR. PERETTI TESTIFIED AT MISSKELLEY'S TRIAL IN CORNING 652 00:35:01,734 --> 00:35:03,734 THAT THIS COULD HAVE BEEN DONE WITH A KNIFE 653 00:35:03,734 --> 00:35:06,033 OR IT COULD HAVE BEEN DONE WITH A SHARP PIECE OF GLASS. 654 00:35:06,033 --> 00:35:09,734 TWO WEEKS LATER HE TESTIFIES THAT THIS SOMEONE 655 00:35:09,734 --> 00:35:12,433 IS SOMEONE WHO HAS A GREAT DEAL OF KNOWLEDGE OF ANATOMY. 656 00:35:12,433 --> 00:35:16,066 - ( chuckling ) - AND THAT THIS PENIS IS SKINNED METICULOUSLY 657 00:35:16,066 --> 00:35:17,867 - WHICH WOULD TAKE... - RIGHT. 658 00:35:17,867 --> 00:35:20,333 ...A GREAT DEAL OF TIME UNDER LABORATORY CONDITIONS. 659 00:35:20,333 --> 00:35:21,934 WHAT CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT THAT? 660 00:35:21,934 --> 00:35:24,033 ON REALLY CLOSE EXAMINATION-- 661 00:35:24,033 --> 00:35:26,333 THIS IS WHY I BROUGHT YOU THE MAGNIFYING GLASS-- 662 00:35:26,333 --> 00:35:28,367 BECAUSE I WANT YOU TO LOOK RIGHT HERE. 663 00:35:28,367 --> 00:35:31,433 YOU CAN SEE THE IMPRESSION OF THE HANDLE OF THE KNIFE 664 00:35:31,433 --> 00:35:34,700 AS IT IS BEING PLUNGED. YOU SEE THAT LITTLE SQUARENESS RIGHT THERE? 665 00:35:34,700 --> 00:35:38,233 SO WHOEVER DID THIS WENT LIKE THIS AND GRABBED IT AND JUST WENT LIKE THAT. 666 00:35:38,233 --> 00:35:39,667 AND THAT'S HOW THEY CUT IT OUT. 667 00:35:39,667 --> 00:35:43,066 NO PRECISION, NO ACCURACY, NO SKILL REQUIRED TO DO THAT. 668 00:35:43,066 --> 00:35:45,133 AND ACTUALLY, TO ME, IT'S CONSISTENT WITH 669 00:35:45,133 --> 00:35:48,633 A FISHING KNIFE THAT'S GOT THE BLADE ON ONE SIDE 670 00:35:48,633 --> 00:35:50,867 AND THE SERRATED TOP ON THE OTHER. 671 00:35:50,867 --> 00:35:52,867 BECAUSE OF THE MOVEMENT INVOLVED AND BECAUSE OF THE DEPTH, 672 00:35:52,867 --> 00:35:54,633 THAT RIGHT THERE IS SOMETHING THAT ONLY SOMEBODY 673 00:35:54,633 --> 00:35:56,633 WHO IS, LIKE, REALLY ANGRY IS GOING TO DO. 674 00:35:56,633 --> 00:36:00,433 THIS IS NOT-- THIS IS NOT AN ACT OF DELIBERATION 675 00:36:00,433 --> 00:36:02,934 OR AN ACT THAT'S WELL-THOUGHT-OUT OR WELL PLANNED. 676 00:36:02,934 --> 00:36:05,667 - IS IT AN ACT OF SEXUAL GRATIFICATION? - I DON'T BELIEVE SO. 677 00:36:05,667 --> 00:36:07,734 I BELIEVE IT'S AN ACT OF ANGER. 678 00:36:07,734 --> 00:36:10,333 MR. BYERS, I NEED TO ASK YOU ABOUT 679 00:36:10,333 --> 00:36:12,433 DEFENSE EXHIBIT NUMBER E-6, 680 00:36:12,433 --> 00:36:15,934 THIS PARTICULAR FOLDING LOCKBLADE KERSHAW KNIFE. 681 00:36:15,934 --> 00:36:19,967 - IF I CAN APPROACH THE WITNESS, YOUR HONOR. - YES. 682 00:36:22,367 --> 00:36:25,934 SO ON JANUARY THE 26th, DID GITCHELL TELL YOU, 683 00:36:25,934 --> 00:36:28,066 "LET ME EXPLAIN A PROBLEM WE HAD 684 00:36:28,066 --> 00:36:30,066 AND YOU NEED TO ANSWER THIS FOR ME, 685 00:36:30,066 --> 00:36:32,533 WE HAVE FOUND BLOOD ON THIS KNIFE"? 686 00:36:32,533 --> 00:36:35,033 I DON'T REMEMBER IF HE SAID THERE WAS OR NOT. 687 00:36:35,033 --> 00:36:39,700 DID YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW HUMAN BLOOD WAS ON THAT KNIFE? 688 00:36:39,700 --> 00:36:42,567 WELL, YES, I WOULD HAVE AN IDEA. I CUT MY THUMB. 689 00:36:42,567 --> 00:36:45,867 ALL RIGHT, DO YOU RECALL STATING, 690 00:36:45,867 --> 00:36:48,367 "I HAVE NO IDEA, NO IDEA 691 00:36:48,367 --> 00:36:51,500 HOW IT COULD HAVE ANY HUMAN BLOOD ON IT"? 692 00:36:51,500 --> 00:36:54,100 - DO YOU RECALL GIVING THAT ANSWER? - YES SIR. 693 00:36:54,100 --> 00:36:58,467 THEN DO YOU RECALL STATING, "I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER NICKING MYSELF WITH IT, 694 00:36:58,467 --> 00:37:00,667 CUTTING THE DEER MEAT OR ANYTHING"? 695 00:37:00,667 --> 00:37:03,066 - IS THAT THE ANSWER YOU GAVE? - YES SIR. 696 00:37:03,066 --> 00:37:04,533 AND IS THAT THE TRUTH? 697 00:37:04,533 --> 00:37:07,200 I MIGHT NOT HAVE REMEMBERED IT AT THAT TIME 698 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:08,567 WHEN HE WAS QUESTIONING ME 699 00:37:08,567 --> 00:37:10,934 BUT I COULD HAVE REMEMBERED IT LATER ON IN THE DAY 700 00:37:10,934 --> 00:37:13,367 - AND TALKED TO HIM ABOUT IT. - OKAY. 701 00:37:41,700 --> 00:37:45,533 Michelle Echols: MARK BYERS, EVERYWHERE HE GOES TROUBLE FOLLOWS HIM. 702 00:37:45,533 --> 00:37:48,400 DIDN'T HIM AND HIS WIFE BREAK IN THIS HOUSE 703 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,567 AND GET THESE STATUES AND ALL THIS STUFF? 704 00:37:50,567 --> 00:37:53,000 YEAH, AND THEN THEY JUST GOT SLAPPED ON THE WRIST. 705 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,834 AND HE CAN GET INTO AS MUCH TROUBLE AS HE WANTS TO GET INTO 706 00:37:55,834 --> 00:37:58,100 AND THEY JUST NEVER DO ANYTHING TO HIM. 707 00:37:58,100 --> 00:38:00,967 Pam Echols: AND HE'S APPARENTLY NOT THAT GREAT OF A PERSON 708 00:38:00,967 --> 00:38:03,300 BECAUSE FROM HEARING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT 709 00:38:03,300 --> 00:38:05,100 PLACES THAT HE WANTS TO LIVE 710 00:38:05,100 --> 00:38:06,800 OR HOUSES THAT HE WANTS TO GET, 711 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:08,567 THE NEIGHBORHOOD FREAKS OUT 712 00:38:08,567 --> 00:38:10,467 AND THEY DON'T WANT HIM LIVING THERE. 713 00:38:10,467 --> 00:38:13,967 Gail Grinnell: I'LL TELL YOU WHAT REALLY WORRIES ME ABOUT MARK BYERS 714 00:38:13,967 --> 00:38:16,233 IS HE'S GOT A THING FOR KNIVES, 715 00:38:16,233 --> 00:38:19,567 LIKE THE KNIFE HE GAVE TO HBO. 716 00:38:19,567 --> 00:38:21,767 AND THEN LATER ON 717 00:38:21,767 --> 00:38:25,100 HE GIVES A TEENAGE BOY A KNIFE. 718 00:38:25,100 --> 00:38:28,600 IF YOU HAD A CHILD THAT WAS BRUTALLY MURDERED BY A KNIFE, 719 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,700 YOU WOULDN'T BE GIVING ANOTHER KID 720 00:38:30,700 --> 00:38:33,600 A KNIFE TO FIGHT ANOTHER KID. 721 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,767 AND THEN HOLD A GUN ON HIM AND MAKE HIM DO IT? 722 00:38:36,767 --> 00:38:38,133 I MEAN... 723 00:38:38,133 --> 00:38:40,367 Pam: WELL, I WOULDN'T GO FAR ENOUGH TO SAY 724 00:38:40,367 --> 00:38:42,600 THAT MARK BYERS MURDERED THESE LITTLE BOYS, 725 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,567 BUT I THINK HE HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT 726 00:38:44,567 --> 00:38:47,333 AND I JUST CAN'T FIGURE OUT WHAT. 727 00:38:47,333 --> 00:38:52,033 AND I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT PROBABLY DO KNOW. 728 00:38:52,033 --> 00:38:54,667 I HAD THREE OR FOUR PEOPLE COME TO MY HOUSE 729 00:38:54,667 --> 00:38:59,066 TO LOOK ME UP TO TELL ME THAT THEY BELIEVE THAT MY SON WAS INNOCENT 730 00:38:59,066 --> 00:39:02,333 AND THAT THEY PERSONALLY KNEW MARK BYERS, 731 00:39:02,333 --> 00:39:06,333 AND THAT THEY BELIEVED THAT HE WAS CAPABLE 732 00:39:06,333 --> 00:39:09,667 OF DOING A CRIME LIKE THAT. 733 00:39:09,667 --> 00:39:12,100 AND THEY SAID THEY HAD BEEN TO THE POLICE, 734 00:39:12,100 --> 00:39:14,100 BUT THE POLICE WOULDN'T LISTEN. 735 00:39:14,100 --> 00:39:18,700 AND I FEEL REALLY BAD ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO MELISSA BYERS 736 00:39:18,700 --> 00:39:20,934 BECAUSE IT CONCERNS ME 737 00:39:20,934 --> 00:39:22,667 THAT MAYBE SHE FOUND OUT SOMETHING 738 00:39:22,667 --> 00:39:24,600 THAT SHE SHOULDN'T HAVE. 739 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:29,300 AND I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT REALLY HAPPENED TO HER. 740 00:39:40,633 --> 00:39:43,967 I WISH YOU COULD HAVE BEEN HERE TO HEAR ME SING LATELY. 741 00:39:43,967 --> 00:39:45,667 HE LIKED TO HEAR ME SING. 742 00:39:45,667 --> 00:39:48,734 ( sniffs ) 743 00:39:56,700 --> 00:39:59,700 I THINK HIS LITTLE CHRISTMAS TREE WILL STAY THERE REAL WELL. 744 00:39:59,700 --> 00:40:04,300 IT'S IN THERE TIGHT ENOUGH. I DON'T THINK THE WIND WILL BLOW IT OVER OR ANYTHING. 745 00:40:04,300 --> 00:40:06,400 COME HERE AND KNEEL DOWN HERE BY ME. 746 00:40:14,333 --> 00:40:16,500 ( music playing ) 747 00:40:18,734 --> 00:40:22,867 OH GOD, WHY DID YOU LET THIS HAPPEN? 748 00:40:22,867 --> 00:40:26,033 PLEASE HELP US THROUGH IT. 749 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,500 GOD, PLEASE HELP US THROUGH THIS. 750 00:41:24,767 --> 00:41:27,633 THESE ARE FOR YOU, MELISSA. 751 00:41:29,934 --> 00:41:34,266 I KNOW HOW YOU LOVE RED ROSES, BABY. 752 00:41:35,533 --> 00:41:38,066 THIS IS ALL I CAN DO FOR YOU. 753 00:41:39,767 --> 00:41:44,700 I KNOW YOUR HEART WAS BROKEN. 754 00:41:44,700 --> 00:41:48,867 I KNOW YOU COULDN'T STAND THE DEATH OF YOUR CHILD. 755 00:41:50,066 --> 00:41:53,734 BUT, OH GOD, I WISH YOU HADN'T LEFT ME. 756 00:41:55,834 --> 00:41:59,633 YOU REMEMBER WHEN WE WERE ON OUR HONEYMOON, 757 00:41:59,633 --> 00:42:02,467 HOW HAPPY WE WERE? 758 00:42:04,066 --> 00:42:06,800 ( crying ) WE WORKED TOGETHER. WE ATE TOGETHER. 759 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,800 WE WENT EVERYWHERE TOGETHER. 760 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,834 WE WEREN'T HUSBAND AND WIFE, 761 00:42:11,834 --> 00:42:15,500 WE WERE BEST FRIENDS. 762 00:42:16,867 --> 00:42:20,834 I LOVED YOU WITH ALL MY HEART. 763 00:42:23,834 --> 00:42:27,533 YOU REMEMBER WHEN WE OPENED OUR JEWELRY STORE? 764 00:42:27,533 --> 00:42:30,300 WE HAD FINALLY ACCOMPLISHED SOMETHING. 765 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,867 HAD TWO SONS DOING GOOD, A NICE HOUSE, 766 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,300 A NICE BUSINESS, 767 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,533 TWO DOGS AND A CAT. 768 00:42:43,533 --> 00:42:46,367 JUST AN AVERAGE FAMILY, 769 00:42:46,367 --> 00:42:49,066 TRYING TO LIVE OUR LIVES 770 00:42:49,066 --> 00:42:51,400 THE BEST WE COULD. 771 00:42:52,900 --> 00:42:57,233 I CAN NEVER PUT INTO WORDS HOW MUCH I LOVED YOU. 772 00:43:00,767 --> 00:43:04,133 YOU WERE EVERYTHING TO ME. 773 00:43:04,133 --> 00:43:05,433 YOU WERE MY LIFE. 774 00:43:05,433 --> 00:43:09,500 I LIVED TO SEE YOU SMILE. 775 00:43:12,300 --> 00:43:14,834 THOSE ANIMALS KILLED YOU. 776 00:43:16,133 --> 00:43:19,533 THEY'RE EVIL ANIMALS AND THEY KILLED YOU 777 00:43:19,533 --> 00:43:22,867 AND I BLAME THEM FOR YOUR DEATH. 778 00:43:22,867 --> 00:43:24,667 ( sniffling ) 779 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,000 AND ALL FOR YOU MORONS, 780 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,066 INFIDELS AND FOOLS 781 00:43:33,066 --> 00:43:36,000 THAT THINK THAT I HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT, 782 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,400 GO TO HELL! 783 00:43:39,467 --> 00:43:41,900 GO TO HELL! 784 00:43:43,333 --> 00:43:47,066 I LOVED MY WIFE MORE THAN ANY MAN COULD LOVE HIS WIFE 785 00:43:47,066 --> 00:43:49,867 ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH. 786 00:43:49,867 --> 00:43:52,367 I'D HAVE DIED FOR HER. 787 00:43:52,367 --> 00:43:55,800 I TOOK CARE OF HER. SHE WAS MY LIFE. 788 00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:02,000 I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING BUT LOVE HER. 789 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,133 AND FOR ALL YOU SICK SON OF A BITCHES OUT THERE 790 00:44:05,133 --> 00:44:07,967 THAT THINK I HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH HER LIFE, 791 00:44:07,967 --> 00:44:09,967 GO TO HELL! 792 00:44:12,166 --> 00:44:15,233 GO TO HELL. 793 00:44:15,233 --> 00:44:18,333 THINK WHAT YOU MIGHT, 794 00:44:18,333 --> 00:44:21,900 BUT YOU CAN KISS MY ASS! 795 00:44:23,467 --> 00:44:24,834 ( lock buzzes ) 796 00:44:27,700 --> 00:44:29,734 Echols: I CAN'T UNDERSTAND 797 00:44:29,734 --> 00:44:32,600 WHY EXACTLY PEOPLE ARE GLOSSING OVER THE OBVIOUS 798 00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,333 WHEN IT COMES TO BYERS AND THE DEATH OF MELISSA BYERS 799 00:44:35,333 --> 00:44:39,233 AND ALL THE THINGS THAT BYERS HAS SAID AND DONE 800 00:44:39,233 --> 00:44:43,133 SINCE THIS TRIAL. 801 00:44:43,133 --> 00:44:45,800 I THINK MAYBE FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC, 802 00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:49,266 IT'S NOT QUITE AS SCARY TO BELIEVE 803 00:44:49,266 --> 00:44:53,133 THAT BLOODTHIRSTY SATANISTS WERE OUT MURDERING CHILDREN 804 00:44:53,133 --> 00:44:56,767 AS IT IS TO BELIEVE THAT PARENTS ARE ACTUALLY MURDERING THEIR OWN CHILDREN. 805 00:45:11,166 --> 00:45:14,600 NOW YOU'RE-- YOU'RE AWARE THAT YOU'RE HERE TO TAKE A POLYGRAPH TEST TODAY? 806 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,734 - YES SIR. - AND THIS IS CONCERNING THE DEATHS OF THREE BOYS... 807 00:45:17,734 --> 00:45:20,333 - YES SIR. - ...AT WEST MEMPHIS IN 1993? 808 00:45:20,333 --> 00:45:25,166 - YES SIR. - OKAY, YOU'RE ALSO AWARE THAT THIS-- A RECORD, 809 00:45:25,166 --> 00:45:27,934 AN AUDIO AND VIDEO RECORD IS BEING MADE OF THIS PROCEDURE? 810 00:45:27,934 --> 00:45:30,233 - CORRECT, SIR. - YOU DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH THAT? 811 00:45:30,233 --> 00:45:32,300 - NO SIR. - IF YOU DO, I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT IT NOW 812 00:45:32,300 --> 00:45:33,900 BECAUSE I DON'T WANT ANYTHING BOTHERING YOU. 813 00:45:33,900 --> 00:45:35,600 I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH IT. 814 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:37,266 OKAY, THAT SOUNDS GOOD TO ME. 815 00:45:37,266 --> 00:45:39,367 MARK, WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO TODAY, 816 00:45:39,367 --> 00:45:43,633 WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN WEST MEMPHIS. 817 00:45:43,633 --> 00:45:45,200 WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT YOU, 818 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,367 - WHERE YOU COME FROM AND WHO YOU ARE. - OKAY, SIR. 819 00:45:54,734 --> 00:45:56,567 WHAT'S YOUR NAME-- YOUR FULL NAME? 820 00:45:56,567 --> 00:46:01,266 JOHN MARK BYERS. 821 00:46:01,266 --> 00:46:04,166 - B-Y-E-R? - E-R-S, YES SIR. 822 00:46:04,166 --> 00:46:05,567 OKAY. 823 00:46:05,567 --> 00:46:08,166 WHAT ABOUT YOUR RELATIONSHIP TO CHRISTOPHER? 824 00:46:08,166 --> 00:46:10,633 UH, HE WAS MY BEST BUDDY. 825 00:46:10,633 --> 00:46:14,500 DID YOU ALL-- DID YOU ALL HAVE DISPUTES, 826 00:46:14,500 --> 00:46:18,000 LIKE ALL FATHER AND SON HAVE, I'M SURE? 827 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,400 WELL, IN THE BEGINNING, OF COURSE, HE WAS LITTLE. 828 00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,834 BUT WHEN HE GOT UP TO FOUR OR FIVE, 829 00:46:23,834 --> 00:46:26,934 - HE STARTED HAVING BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS. - MM-HMM. 830 00:46:26,934 --> 00:46:29,433 AND MELISSA DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS WRONG WITH HIM. 831 00:46:29,433 --> 00:46:31,667 I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS WRONG WITH HIM. 832 00:46:31,667 --> 00:46:34,900 IN HINDSIGHT NOW, I CAN LOOK BACK AND SAY, 833 00:46:34,900 --> 00:46:38,133 "BOY, IF I HAD KNOWN THAT, I'D HAVE NEVER SPANKED HIM 834 00:46:38,133 --> 00:46:40,467 OR I'D HAVE NEVER GIVEN HIM TIME OUT 835 00:46:40,467 --> 00:46:43,133 OR I WOULDN'T HAVE DONE ANYTHING LIKE THAT." 836 00:46:43,133 --> 00:46:46,066 YOU SAY YOU SPANKED HIM. WHAT WAS YOUR INTENT WHEN YOU SPANKED HIM? 837 00:46:46,066 --> 00:46:48,400 - WAS IT YOUR INTENT TO HURT HIM? - OH, NO SIR. 838 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,266 - TO DISCIPLINE HIM? - DISCIPLINE HIM. 839 00:46:50,266 --> 00:46:52,834 - DID YOU EVER HURT HIM? - NO SIR. 840 00:46:52,834 --> 00:46:56,000 Byers: SON, I KNOW THERE'S THOUSANDS OF EYES 841 00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,400 WATCHING WHAT I'M GOING TO DO. 842 00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,266 I KNOW I MADE MISTAKES. I'M NOT A PERFECT FATHER, 843 00:47:01,266 --> 00:47:04,633 BUT I KNOW I LOVED YOU WITH ALL MY HEART. 844 00:47:04,633 --> 00:47:08,533 AND I KNOW I TRIED TO KEEP YOU FROM GETTING HURT. 845 00:47:08,533 --> 00:47:12,767 I KNOW THE TIMES I HAD TO SPANK YOU OR PUNISH YOU 846 00:47:12,767 --> 00:47:15,800 IT WAS 'CAUSE I LOVED YOU, SON. 847 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:20,734 I LOVED YOU AND I DIDN'T WANT ANYTHING TERRIBLE TO HAPPEN TO YOU. 848 00:47:34,367 --> 00:47:37,233 WITH YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THE AMOUNT OF BLOOD THAT WAS LOST, 849 00:47:37,233 --> 00:47:39,433 FROM-- NOT ONLY CHRIS BYERS BUT THESE OTHER BOYS 850 00:47:39,433 --> 00:47:42,433 WHO'VE HAD SOME PRETTY-- THEY'RE GONNA BLEED AS WELL, WON'T THEY? 851 00:47:42,433 --> 00:47:43,734 - OH, YES. - OKAY. 852 00:47:43,734 --> 00:47:46,300 DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT 853 00:47:46,300 --> 00:47:48,633 YOU COULD CLEAN UP THAT AMOUNT OF BLOOD 854 00:47:48,633 --> 00:47:50,900 AT A SCENE IN THE DARK? 855 00:47:50,900 --> 00:47:52,633 DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION AS TO THAT? 856 00:47:52,633 --> 00:47:54,734 I THINK IT WOULD BE QUITE DIFFICULT TO DO, 857 00:47:54,734 --> 00:47:57,767 TO HAVE INJURIES OF THIS NATURE 858 00:47:57,767 --> 00:47:59,600 WITHOUT HAVING ANY BLOOD. 859 00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:00,900 I MEAN, THAT'S-- 860 00:48:00,900 --> 00:48:04,066 I WOULD QUESTION THAT-- ABOUT THE BLOOD. 861 00:48:12,367 --> 00:48:14,166 ONE OF THE BODIES WAS 862 00:48:14,166 --> 00:48:17,233 DISCOVERED IN THIS AREA RIGHT HERE. 863 00:48:17,233 --> 00:48:20,433 THERE'S A PLACE UP THERE ON THE HILL 864 00:48:20,433 --> 00:48:23,100 WHERE THOSE TWO TREES GROW TOGETHER RIGHT THERE. 865 00:48:23,100 --> 00:48:25,800 - MM-HMM. - THAT WAS ONE OF THE OTHER REFERENCE POINTS 866 00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,200 ON THE CRIME-SCENE DIAGRAM. 867 00:48:30,700 --> 00:48:34,433 THE PROSECUTION, THEIR THEORY WAS 868 00:48:34,433 --> 00:48:38,967 THAT THE MURDERS OCCURRED HERE IN THE CREEK BANK. 869 00:48:38,967 --> 00:48:41,467 AND THAT ACTUALLY-- 870 00:48:41,467 --> 00:48:43,867 THAT ACTUALLY THE HOMICIDES TOOK PLACE HERE 871 00:48:43,867 --> 00:48:46,633 ON THIS LITTLE KIND OF PLATEAU AREA. 872 00:48:46,633 --> 00:48:49,467 AND THAT THE DEFENDANTS 873 00:48:49,467 --> 00:48:52,033 THREW WATER UP ON THE BANK AND WASHED ALL THE BLOOD AWAY. 874 00:48:52,033 --> 00:48:53,900 THE WATER WAS ABOUT THIS HIGH. 875 00:48:53,900 --> 00:48:57,000 AND THE THEORY BEING THAT THE WATER, IT WOULD HIT THE BODIES 876 00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,467 - AND WASH THE BLOOD BACK INTO THE RIVER? - AND WASH AWAY THE EVIDENCE. 877 00:49:00,467 --> 00:49:02,300 ( incredulous chuckle ) OKAY. 878 00:49:02,300 --> 00:49:04,333 I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY HOW THAT WOULD WORK, 879 00:49:04,333 --> 00:49:07,066 OR WHY THEY WOULD THINK IT WOULD WORK. 880 00:49:07,066 --> 00:49:09,667 UNLESS THEY HAD SOMEONE THROWING WATER AT THE SAME TIME 881 00:49:09,667 --> 00:49:11,500 THE, UH, CASTRATION-- 882 00:49:11,500 --> 00:49:13,600 YOU CAN USE A GARDEN HOSE ON THE BODIES 883 00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:15,800 AND YOU WOULDN'T GET ALL THE BLOOD AWAY. 884 00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:18,667 THAT'S LIKE-- THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN SO MUCH BLOOD, 885 00:49:18,667 --> 00:49:20,667 THE AMOUNT OF BLOOD AT THIS CRIME SCENE, 886 00:49:20,667 --> 00:49:23,800 IF THIS HAD BEEN THE PLACE WHERE CHRIS BYERS ALONE WAS EMASCULATED, 887 00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:25,800 THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN SO MUCH MORE BLOOD THAN THAT. 888 00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,233 PLUS THEY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SEE IT. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN 889 00:49:28,233 --> 00:49:30,633 AN INCOMPLETE JOB. SO THIS IS ONLY A DISPOSAL SITE. 890 00:49:30,633 --> 00:49:33,767 TWO OF THE KIDS DID DIE HERE BECAUSE THEY WERE PUT IN THE WATER AND THEY DROWNED, 891 00:49:33,767 --> 00:49:38,033 BUT THIS IS A DISPOSAL SITE ONLY, NOT A PRIMARY CRIME SCENE. 892 00:49:46,734 --> 00:49:49,266 I'D HAVE TO SAY THAT THE MAKING 893 00:49:49,266 --> 00:49:52,467 OF THE FILM "PARADISE LOST" WAS-- 894 00:49:54,667 --> 00:49:57,667 WAS A NEW SITUATION FOR THE COURT 895 00:49:57,667 --> 00:50:00,834 AND I'M SURE FOR ALL OF THE LAWYERS INVOLVED. 896 00:50:00,834 --> 00:50:04,166 I THINK I HAD INDICATED TO THE PRODUCERS EARLIER 897 00:50:04,166 --> 00:50:08,800 THAT IF EITHER THE DEFENSE OR THE PROSECUTION HAD OBJECTED, 898 00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:12,433 THERE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ANY FILMING IN THE COURTROOM. 899 00:50:13,734 --> 00:50:16,433 BUT IF I HAD THE DECISION TO DO OVER AGAIN 900 00:50:16,433 --> 00:50:18,667 AS TO WHETHER A DOCUMENTARY WAS MADE, 901 00:50:18,667 --> 00:50:21,467 I PROBABLY WOULD NOT ALLOW IT. 902 00:50:21,467 --> 00:50:24,834 - Woman: Tim. - WELL, BETH, RIGHT NOW THE NEW ATTORNEYS, 903 00:50:24,834 --> 00:50:27,166 THE APPELLATE ATTORNEYS FOR DAMIEN ECHOLS 904 00:50:27,166 --> 00:50:29,834 ARE CONDUCTING A HEARING INSIDE THIS COURTROOM. 905 00:50:29,834 --> 00:50:32,734 THEY HAVE ON THE STAND A LAWYER WHO REPRESENTED 906 00:50:32,734 --> 00:50:36,000 ONE OF ECHOL'S CO-DEFENDANTS AT TRIAL, 907 00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:37,667 UH, A FEW YEARS AGO. 908 00:50:37,667 --> 00:50:39,300 WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO 909 00:50:39,300 --> 00:50:41,667 IS ESTABLISH THAT THE TRIAL LAWYERS IN THIS CASE 910 00:50:41,667 --> 00:50:43,266 WHO REPRESENTED DAMIEN ECHOLS 911 00:50:43,266 --> 00:50:45,900 WERE INEFFECTIVE, THAT THEY WERE INCOMPETENT. 912 00:50:45,900 --> 00:50:48,700 THE MAIN ARGUMENT IS THAT THEY HAD A CONFLICT OF INTEREST 913 00:50:48,700 --> 00:50:52,433 BECAUSE THEY AGREED TO COOPERATE WITH FILMMAKERS 914 00:50:52,433 --> 00:50:54,934 WHO WERE MAKING A DOCUMENTARY ABOUT THE CASE, 915 00:50:54,934 --> 00:50:57,767 AN AWARD-WINNING DOCUMENTARY CALLED "PARADISE LOST." 916 00:50:57,767 --> 00:51:01,533 IT WAS PRODUCED BY HBO. THE ARGUMENT THESE ATTORNEYS ARE GOING TO MAKE 917 00:51:01,533 --> 00:51:03,800 IS THAT BECAUSE DAMIEN ECHOLS' TRIAL LAWYERS 918 00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:08,100 MADE AN AGREEMENT TO COOPERATE WITH THOSE FILMMAKERS-- 919 00:51:08,100 --> 00:51:12,367 AND THE ALLEGATION IS THAT THEY ACCEPTED MONEY FROM THOSE FILMMAKERS-- 920 00:51:12,367 --> 00:51:14,567 THAT THAT CREATED A CONFLICT OF INTEREST 921 00:51:14,567 --> 00:51:18,233 WHICH MADE THEM INCOMPETENT AND INEFFECTIVE 922 00:51:18,233 --> 00:51:21,367 TO ASSIST DAMIEN ECHOLS AT TRIAL. 923 00:51:21,367 --> 00:51:24,000 WE EXPECT THAT WHEN THE PROSECUTORS CROSS-EXAMINE 924 00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,133 THE LAWYERS WHO REPRESENTED DAMIEN ECHOLS, 925 00:51:26,133 --> 00:51:27,934 THOSE LAWYERS WILL TESTIFY THAT 926 00:51:27,934 --> 00:51:31,266 THEY DID NOT MAKE A DEAL TO TAKE MONEY FROM THE FILMMAKERS. 927 00:51:31,266 --> 00:51:33,000 THAT THE AGREEMENT WAS THAT 928 00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,867 THE FILMMAKERS WOULD PROVIDE MONEY FOR A TRUST FUND 929 00:51:35,867 --> 00:51:37,300 FOR THE DEFENDANTS, 930 00:51:37,300 --> 00:51:39,667 THAT THE MONEY DID NOT GO TO THE ATTORNEYS. 931 00:51:39,667 --> 00:51:41,200 IT WAS NOT FOR THE ATTORNEYS 932 00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:43,200 AND IT DID NOT CREATE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST. 933 00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:46,200 THAT WILL BE THE ARGUMENT THE PROSECUTORS ARE GOING TO DRAW OUT 934 00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:48,700 TO TRY TO MAKE SURE THIS CONVICTION STANDS UP. 935 00:51:48,700 --> 00:51:51,600 I THINK ONE OF THE IRONIES ABOUT THIS MOTION IS THAT 936 00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:54,700 A LOT OF THE LAWYERS WHO ARE INVOLVED IN IT NOW, 937 00:51:54,700 --> 00:51:58,500 ED MALLETT, BARRY SCHECK, BOB FOGELNEST, HIGH-PROFILE LAWYERS-- 938 00:51:58,500 --> 00:52:02,800 NEVER WOULD HAVE HEARD OF THIS CASE BEFORE THE DOCUMENTARY CAME OUT. 939 00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:04,433 OKAY? 940 00:52:12,900 --> 00:52:14,967 Man: OKAY. 941 00:52:22,567 --> 00:52:24,166 OKAY? 942 00:52:24,166 --> 00:52:27,400 ( speaking softly ) CAN YOU TELL ME MUCH ABOUT YOUR INTERVIEW WITH HIM? 943 00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,233 MY INTERVIEW WITH HIM? YEAH, YOU KNOW I'LL SEND YOU A-- 944 00:52:30,233 --> 00:52:32,033 I CAN SEND YOU A COPY OF THE PIECE WE DID, 945 00:52:32,033 --> 00:52:34,800 - BASED ON THE INTERVIEW. - REALLY? MAN, I'D LOVE TO HAVE IT. 946 00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,400 IT'S BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT DEATH ROW, 947 00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,066 WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE ON DEATH ROW, ET CETERA. 948 00:52:39,066 --> 00:52:42,200 - UM, YOU KNOW-- - WAS HIS HAIR STILL LONG THEN? 949 00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,066 OH, YEAH, HIS HAIR WAS LIKE DOWN TO HERE. 950 00:52:44,066 --> 00:52:46,800 YEAH. THAT'S WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE WHEN HE WAS HERE LAST. 951 00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:48,867 I GUESS THEY WANTED TO CLEAN HIM UP 952 00:52:48,867 --> 00:52:50,633 AND MAKE HIM LOOK PRESENTABLE. 953 00:52:50,633 --> 00:52:53,533 - HE SAID THAT WEARING A WHITE SHIRT-- - HE HAD LONG FINGERNAILS TOO. 954 00:52:53,533 --> 00:52:56,133 HE SAID WEARING A WHITE SHIRT REALLY GAVE HIM A HEADACHE, 955 00:52:56,133 --> 00:52:58,734 SO I KNOW IT'S JUST KILLING HIM SITTING THERE IN THE COURTROOM. 956 00:52:58,734 --> 00:53:01,166 HE SAID WHITE WAS ON THE GOOD SIDE 957 00:53:01,166 --> 00:53:03,300 AND HE LIKED TO STAY ON THE DARK SIDE. 958 00:53:03,300 --> 00:53:04,900 HE DIDN'T SAY THAT TO ME. 959 00:53:12,900 --> 00:53:15,233 Reporter: When you were going through the treatment 960 00:53:15,233 --> 00:53:17,500 that you were going through that led you to file that suit, 961 00:53:17,500 --> 00:53:20,467 how did you finally get to the point where you did file it, 962 00:53:20,467 --> 00:53:23,333 talk to the lawyers, et cetera? 963 00:53:27,767 --> 00:53:29,633 I don't really even know. 964 00:53:29,633 --> 00:53:31,166 I mean, it's... 965 00:53:33,133 --> 00:53:35,333 umm... 966 00:53:35,333 --> 00:53:39,800 one day you wake up and you figure out, 967 00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:43,166 "What's the worst thing they can do to you? 968 00:53:43,166 --> 00:53:45,166 Kill you?" 969 00:53:46,734 --> 00:53:48,934 I mean, I'm sitting here on death row anyway. 970 00:53:48,934 --> 00:53:51,734 What else were they going to do to me? 971 00:53:51,734 --> 00:53:53,567 You don't have anything to lose 972 00:53:53,567 --> 00:53:56,033 when you're in a situation like that. 973 00:53:56,033 --> 00:53:58,567 ( music playing ) 974 00:54:07,066 --> 00:54:09,133 Pam: I WENT TO SEE DAMIEN YESTERDAY. 975 00:54:09,133 --> 00:54:12,767 AND FOR THE FIRST TIME IN FOUR YEARS, I GOT TO TOUCH HIM. 976 00:54:12,767 --> 00:54:14,266 I GOT TO HUG HIM. 977 00:54:14,266 --> 00:54:16,734 AND IT WAS HARD TO BELIEVE HOW MUCH HE HAD GROWN-- 978 00:54:16,734 --> 00:54:19,533 TALLER-- HE WAS AT LEAST A HEAD TALLER THAN I WAS. 979 00:54:19,533 --> 00:54:22,734 I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU HAD TO GO ALL THAT TIME 980 00:54:22,734 --> 00:54:25,433 WITHOUT EVEN BEING ABLE TO GIVE HIM A HUG. 981 00:54:25,433 --> 00:54:28,300 HE'S 20-SOMETHING YEARS OLD BUT HE'S STILL MY BABY. 982 00:54:28,300 --> 00:54:32,333 AND THAT'S WHAT IT FELT LIKE WHEN I PUT MY ARMS AROUND HIM. 983 00:54:32,333 --> 00:54:35,367 AND THEN HE SAT DOWN. YOU COULD TELL HE WAS REALLY NERVOUS 984 00:54:35,367 --> 00:54:38,567 BECAUSE HE'S BEEN OUT-- BY HISSELF FOR SO LONG. 985 00:54:38,567 --> 00:54:40,266 Grinnell: YEAH. 986 00:54:40,266 --> 00:54:44,266 HE WAS HAVING A REALLY HARD TIME BEING AROUND PEOPLE. 987 00:54:46,266 --> 00:54:50,066 I WAS ALLOWED TO VISIT WITH JASON AFTER HE WAS SENTENCED 988 00:54:50,066 --> 00:54:54,500 AND IT WAS THE FIRST CONTACT VISIT WE HAD HAD IN A YEAR. 989 00:54:54,500 --> 00:54:58,133 IT WAS JUST-- IT WAS THRILLING TO BE ABLE TO HUG HIM 990 00:54:58,133 --> 00:55:02,033 BUT THEN I HAD TO LET HIM GO AND GO TO THIS HORRIBLE PLACE 991 00:55:02,033 --> 00:55:06,266 FOR SOMETHING HE DIDN'T DO. 992 00:55:06,266 --> 00:55:08,367 WHEN I START THINKING ABOUT 993 00:55:08,367 --> 00:55:10,834 WHAT ALL THEY GO THROUGH IN PRISON, 994 00:55:10,834 --> 00:55:13,633 MY MIND-- I JUST CAN'T HANDLE IT. 995 00:55:13,633 --> 00:55:15,567 YOU KNOW, I JUST START FREAKING OUT 996 00:55:15,567 --> 00:55:19,166 WHEN I TRY TO START IMAGINING WHAT JASON'S LIFE MUST BE LIKE 997 00:55:19,166 --> 00:55:21,166 OR DAMIEN LIFE'S MUST BE LIKE. 998 00:55:21,166 --> 00:55:24,000 Pam: I HEARD A LOT OF STUFF THAT HAD HAPPENED TO DAMIEN, 999 00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:26,400 BUT IT'S REALLY REALLY HARD TO DEAL WITH. 1000 00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:30,834 YOU'RE IN A POSITION WHERE YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING. 1001 00:55:30,834 --> 00:55:34,800 AND IF YOU STOP AND THINK ABOUT IT VERY MUCH, 1002 00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:38,066 SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE DONE TO HIM... 1003 00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:42,834 IT-IT-- I THINK IT COULD MAKE YOU LOSE YOUR MIND, 1004 00:55:42,834 --> 00:55:46,100 KNOWING THAT SOMETHING LIKE THAT'S BEING DONE TO YOUR CHILD. 1005 00:55:46,100 --> 00:55:49,934 BECAUSE WHAT'S HAPPENED TO THEM IN PRISON, IT'S GONNA-- 1006 00:55:49,934 --> 00:55:53,300 IT'S GONNA AFFECT THEM FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES. 1007 00:55:53,300 --> 00:55:55,834 WHEN THEY COME HOME, IT WILL NEVER BE-- 1008 00:55:55,834 --> 00:55:58,166 IT'LL NEVER BE LIKE IT EVER WAS. 1009 00:55:58,166 --> 00:56:00,667 BECAUSE THESE-- 1010 00:56:00,667 --> 00:56:03,233 THESE BOYS WERE JUST CHILDREN TOO. 1011 00:56:04,900 --> 00:56:08,033 WHENEVER THESE LITTLE BOYS WERE MURDERED, 1012 00:56:08,033 --> 00:56:11,000 OUR BOYS WERE JUST CHILDREN TOO. 1013 00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:14,567 Grinnell: I NEVER KNEW WHAT HELL COULD BE LIKE 1014 00:56:14,567 --> 00:56:16,867 UNTIL THESE LAST FOUR YEARS. 1015 00:56:16,867 --> 00:56:19,033 MY WHOLE LIFE HAS CHANGED. 1016 00:56:19,033 --> 00:56:21,667 I LOST MY HOME, 1017 00:56:21,667 --> 00:56:24,667 MY JOB. 1018 00:56:25,734 --> 00:56:28,533 NOTHING SEEMS TO MATTER ANYMORE. 1019 00:56:28,533 --> 00:56:32,133 KIND OF LIKE THAT SONG. I GOT A SONG I DEDICATED TO JASON. 1020 00:56:32,133 --> 00:56:35,133 IT'S "NOTHING ELSE MATTERS" BY METALLICA. 1021 00:56:35,133 --> 00:56:37,433 THAT'S MY SONG TO HIM, BECAUSE REALLY, 1022 00:56:37,433 --> 00:56:38,967 I FEEL LIKE MOST OF THE TIME 1023 00:56:38,967 --> 00:56:42,100 NOTHING ELSE MATTERS TO ME BUT GETTING JASON HOME 1024 00:56:42,100 --> 00:56:44,900 AND I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW I DO IT. 1025 00:56:44,900 --> 00:56:47,467 DAMIEN, WHEN OUR VISITING TIME'S OVER 1026 00:56:47,467 --> 00:56:51,133 HE ALWAYS STANDS UP AND PUTS HIS HAND AGAINST THE GLASS 1027 00:56:51,133 --> 00:56:54,800 FOR ME TO PUT MINE AGAINST HIS. 1028 00:56:56,700 --> 00:57:01,000 WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY TOUCHING, BUT WE ARE. 1029 00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,767 IT'S IN THE HEART ANYWAY. 1030 00:57:05,300 --> 00:57:10,633 ♪ SO CLOSE NO MATTER HOW FAR ♪ 1031 00:57:10,633 --> 00:57:15,400 ♪ COULDN'T BE MUCH MORE FROM THE HEART ♪ 1032 00:57:16,567 --> 00:57:20,700 ♪ FOREVER TRUSTING WHO WE ARE ♪ 1033 00:57:20,700 --> 00:57:25,600 ♪ AND NOTHING ELSE MATTERS. ♪ 1034 00:57:32,567 --> 00:57:35,467 Interviewer: IF YOU COULD SPEAK TO THE FAMILIES 1035 00:57:35,467 --> 00:57:39,100 OF THESE KIDS WHO THINK YOU DID IT, 1036 00:57:39,100 --> 00:57:42,533 YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THEM? 1037 00:57:53,700 --> 00:57:55,400 I DON'T KNOW. 1038 00:57:57,433 --> 00:58:01,567 IF I COULD TALK TO THE FAMILIES OF THE VICTIMS RIGHT NOW, 1039 00:58:01,567 --> 00:58:04,133 I DON'T KNOW REALLY WHAT I'D SAY. 1040 00:58:04,133 --> 00:58:08,266 JUST... THEY WERE LED TO BELIEVE BY THE POLICE 1041 00:58:08,266 --> 00:58:11,633 THAT WE'D DONE IT AND SO I UNDERSTAND THAT THEY HATE US, 1042 00:58:11,633 --> 00:58:13,166 YOU KNOW, HATE ME, 1043 00:58:13,166 --> 00:58:15,433 BUT I DIDN'T DO IT, YOU KNOW. 1044 00:58:15,433 --> 00:58:17,333 I DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT. 1045 00:58:17,333 --> 00:58:20,700 I'M SORRY THAT YOUR KIDS ARE DEAD. I'M SORRY ABOUT THAT. 1046 00:58:20,700 --> 00:58:22,800 I'M REALLY SORRY ABOUT ALL THAT 1047 00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,800 'CAUSE I DON'T HAVE A KID, BUT IF I WAS MY LITTLE BROTHER, 1048 00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:28,567 I'D BE REAL ANGRY AT WHOEVER HAD DONE IT. 1049 00:58:28,567 --> 00:58:31,533 BUT ALL I ASK IS 1050 00:58:31,533 --> 00:58:34,800 Y'ALL GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE. 1051 00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:39,533 JUST STOP AND THINK AND DON'T LET YOUR EMOTIONS ABOUT IT ALL 1052 00:58:39,533 --> 00:58:41,166 GET TO YOUR HEAD. 1053 00:58:41,166 --> 00:58:43,600 JUST STOP AND THINK AND LOOK BACK AT THE EVIDENCE 1054 00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:46,100 AND LOOK WHERE THE EVIDENCE DOES POINT. 1055 00:58:46,100 --> 00:58:47,767 AND ASK YOURSELF, 1056 00:58:47,767 --> 00:58:50,433 "NOW WHO DO YOU THINK REALLY DONE IT?" 1057 00:58:50,433 --> 00:58:52,533 YOU KNOW, BECAUSE... 1058 00:58:52,533 --> 00:58:56,200 IT WAS A GREAT TRAGEDY THAT YOUR KIDS WAS KILLED, 1059 00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:58,367 BUT IT'S ALSO ANOTHER GREAT TRAGEDY 1060 00:58:58,367 --> 00:59:01,367 THAT AMERICAN CITIZENS, ANYBODY IN TODAY'S PUBLIC 1061 00:59:01,367 --> 00:59:03,967 CAN JUST BE PICKED UP FOR A CRIME THEY DIDN'T COMMIT 1062 00:59:03,967 --> 00:59:06,633 AND BE CONVICTED OF IT WITHOUT NO EVIDENCE. 1063 00:59:06,633 --> 00:59:08,600 THAT'S ANOTHER TRAGEDY. 1064 00:59:12,433 --> 00:59:14,200 ON THIS PARTICULAR CASE 1065 00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:17,166 YOU HAVE THE FORTUNE OF HAVING WHAT APPEARS TO BE BITE-MARK EVIDENCE 1066 00:59:17,166 --> 00:59:21,266 RIGHT THERE ON THE FACE THAT WAS NOT ORIGINALLY MENTIONED, DOCUMENTED OR WHAT HAVE YOU. 1067 00:59:21,266 --> 00:59:25,367 BUT THESE TYPE OF BITE MARKS ARE-- THERE ARE TWO KINDS-- 1068 00:59:25,367 --> 00:59:27,400 WAIT A MINUTE. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT BITE MARKS 1069 00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:29,867 - ON THE OUTSIDE OF THIS VICTIM'S FACE? - THAT'S RIGHT. 1070 00:59:29,867 --> 00:59:31,767 - NOT SUPERFICIAL BITE MARKS... - NO. 1071 00:59:31,767 --> 00:59:34,233 ...ON THE INSIDE OF THEIR MOUTH CAUSED BY THEIR OWN TEETH? 1072 00:59:34,233 --> 00:59:36,533 NOT SUPERFICIAL ON THE INSIDE CAUSED BY THEIR OWN TEETH. 1073 00:59:36,533 --> 00:59:38,467 THERE ARE WHAT APPEARS TO BE BITE MARKS 1074 00:59:38,467 --> 00:59:40,767 ALL OVER CERTAIN PARTS OF THESE CHILDREN'S BODIES. 1075 00:59:40,767 --> 00:59:43,000 WELL, DID HE MISS THAT? OR DID HE-- 1076 00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,767 - I DON'T REMEMBER SEEING IT. - IT'S NOT IN THE AUTOPSY REPORT. 1077 00:59:45,767 --> 00:59:49,600 AND THE GREAT THING ABOUT BITE-MARK EVIDENCE IS BITE-MARK EVIDENCE IS LIKE-- 1078 00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:53,567 IT'S JUST AS GOOD AS A FINGERPRINT AND IT'S BETTER THAN DNA. 1079 00:59:53,567 --> 00:59:58,233 BECAUSE BITE-MARK EVIDENCE INDICATES A SPECIFIC PERSON 1080 00:59:58,233 --> 01:00:01,000 COMMITTING A SPECIFIC BEHAVIOR. THE BITE MARK INDICATES 1081 01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:03,333 THAT YOU BIT SOMEBODY AT A CERTAIN SPOT AT A CERTAIN TIME. 1082 01:00:03,333 --> 01:00:06,433 SO IF WE HAVE SOMEBODY BITING THIS INDIVIDUAL HERE-- A CERTAIN PERSON-- 1083 01:00:06,433 --> 01:00:08,934 WE HAVE A SPECIFIC BEHAVIOR TIED TO A SPECIFIC PERSON. 1084 01:00:08,934 --> 01:00:11,734 SO THAT'S THE BEST KIND OF EVIDENCE, AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED 1085 01:00:11,734 --> 01:00:13,166 FOR THIS TYPE OF CRIME. 1086 01:00:13,166 --> 01:00:17,533 WHENEVER YOU HAVE TEETH MARKS, IT'S TYPICALLY-- 1087 01:00:17,533 --> 01:00:20,333 IF YOU WERE TO SHOW THIS TO AN EMERGENCY-ROOM PATHOLOGIST 1088 01:00:20,333 --> 01:00:23,066 WHO'D SEEN A LOT OF THESE, HE WOULD ARREST THE MOM, 1089 01:00:23,066 --> 01:00:25,166 BECAUSE IT'S MORE TYPICALLY RESEMBLING 1090 01:00:25,166 --> 01:00:27,934 THE TYPE THAT'S INVOLVED IN CASES OF CHILD ABUSE. 1091 01:00:27,934 --> 01:00:32,100 WE HAVE A MOTHER OF A VICTIM WHO IS NO LONGER ALIVE. 1092 01:00:32,100 --> 01:00:36,233 - RIGHT. - MELISSA BYERS HAS BEEN DEAD SINCE MARCH OF '96. 1093 01:00:36,233 --> 01:00:39,066 I DON'T SEE ANY REASON WHY HER AUTOPSY 1094 01:00:39,066 --> 01:00:42,200 SHOULD STILL BE-- BE SEALED. 1095 01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:45,066 THEY CLAIM THEY ARE STILL CONDUCTING A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION, 1096 01:00:45,066 --> 01:00:49,233 BUT, UH, HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO-- 1097 01:00:49,233 --> 01:00:51,166 AGAIN IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, 1098 01:00:51,166 --> 01:00:54,066 SINCE WHAT YOU'VE TOLD ME IS THAT THE DEATH IS UNDETERMINED, 1099 01:00:54,066 --> 01:00:56,633 THEY CAN KEEP IT OPEN AS LONG AS THEY WANT. 1100 01:00:56,633 --> 01:00:59,900 BUT THE PROBLEM IS, IF THEY ARE KEEPING IT OPEN, 1101 01:00:59,900 --> 01:01:02,967 THAT MEANS THEY DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT'S A SUICIDE OR A HOMICIDE 1102 01:01:02,967 --> 01:01:06,400 AND THAT MEANS IT'S UNDETERMINED WHICH MEANS IT'S AN EQUIVOCAL DEATH. 1103 01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:10,266 BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO THIS CASE. AND THE REASON I ORIGINALLY ASKED YOU FOR THE MATERIALS 1104 01:01:10,266 --> 01:01:13,567 IS BECAUSE I'D LIKE TO KNOW IF THERE'S A CONNECTION. I'D LIKE TO SEE HER WOUNDS. 1105 01:01:13,567 --> 01:01:15,367 I'D LIKE TO SEE IF THERE'S ANY WOUNDS ON HER. 1106 01:01:15,367 --> 01:01:18,600 I'D LIKE TO SEE IF THERE'S A CONNECTION BETWEEN THIS CASE AND THAT CASE. 1107 01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:21,100 AND THE REALITY IS THAT I WOULD LIKE ALSO... 1108 01:01:21,100 --> 01:01:25,133 ALSO IF YOU GET A FORENSIC ODONTOLOGIST IN HERE AT ANY POINT IN TIME, 1109 01:01:25,133 --> 01:01:27,533 THEY CAN YANK HER TEETH AND SEE IF THEY MATCH 1110 01:01:27,533 --> 01:01:29,400 ANY OF THE BITE-MARK IMPRESSIONS. 1111 01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:32,967 BECAUSE WE NEED TO, AT LEAST-- IF THERE'S NOTHING WRONG, IF THERE'S NO CONNECTION, 1112 01:01:32,967 --> 01:01:36,300 WE NEED TO ESTABLISH THAT THERE'S NO CONNECTION TO THESE DEATHS. 1113 01:01:38,500 --> 01:01:42,600 Byers: I'VE WONDERED WHY IT'S BEEN ALMOST TWO YEARS-- 1114 01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:45,767 AND I HAVE CALLED EVERYBODY THEY'VE TOLD ME TO CALL 1115 01:01:45,767 --> 01:01:48,266 ABOUT GETTING A DEATH CERTIFICATE 1116 01:01:48,266 --> 01:01:51,934 OR AN AUTOPSY REPORT ON MY WIFE AND THEY WON'T RELEASE IT. 1117 01:01:51,934 --> 01:01:55,166 THE NEWSPAPER PEOPLE HAVE CALLED-- THEY WON'T RELEASE IT. 1118 01:01:55,166 --> 01:01:58,100 THEY WANT TO SAY IT'S STILL PENDING. WHAT'S STILL PENDING? 1119 01:01:58,100 --> 01:02:01,233 IF THEY CAN'T SAY CAUSE OF DEATH WASN'T ANYTHING BUT A HEART ATTACK, 1120 01:02:01,233 --> 01:02:05,033 ALL THEY'VE SAID WAS A PRESCRIPTION MEDICATION THAT SHE WAS TAKING 1121 01:02:05,033 --> 01:02:07,934 WAS FOUND IN HER BLOODSTREAM AND A FOREIGN DRUG. 1122 01:02:07,934 --> 01:02:10,934 THEY NEVER WOULD RELEASE WHAT THE FOREIGN DRUG WAS. 1123 01:02:10,934 --> 01:02:13,066 I DON'T KNOW. 1124 01:02:13,066 --> 01:02:15,867 I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT CAUSED HER TO DIE. 1125 01:02:15,867 --> 01:02:20,033 THEY WON'T TELL ME. AND I THINK THAT JUST GIVES PEOPLE SUSPICION. 1126 01:02:20,033 --> 01:02:22,834 THE POLICE UP THERE, THEY DIDN'T CARE ABOUT US. 1127 01:02:22,834 --> 01:02:24,567 THEY DIDN'T CARE ABOUT HER DYING 1128 01:02:24,567 --> 01:02:26,633 AND THEY'RE STILL THROWING GAS ON THE FIRE 1129 01:02:26,633 --> 01:02:28,500 BECAUSE IF THERE AIN'T NOTHING TO HIDE, 1130 01:02:28,500 --> 01:02:31,667 WHY WON'T THEY GIVE ME THE PAPERWORK THAT I'M ENTITLED TO? 1131 01:02:31,667 --> 01:02:33,800 Man: EITHER THAT OR BRING CHARGES AGAINST YOU-- 1132 01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:35,867 - EITHER ONE OR THE OTHER. - THEY AIN'T GOT NO CHARGES 1133 01:02:35,867 --> 01:02:37,700 TO BRING AGAINST ME BECAUSE I DIDN'T DO NOTHING. 1134 01:02:37,700 --> 01:02:40,867 I KNOW THAT, I KNOW. YOU KNOW, I AIN'T GOT A DOUBT IN MY MIND ON THAT, 1135 01:02:40,867 --> 01:02:43,800 BUT THAT'S-- THAT'S-- LIKE YOU SAID, THAT'S NOT THE POINT. 1136 01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:46,567 TWO YEARS AND THEY WON'T RELEASE IT. 1137 01:02:46,567 --> 01:02:49,700 THEY'RE JUST HOLDING IT OPEN SO PEOPLE CAN SIT OUT HERE 1138 01:02:49,700 --> 01:02:51,767 AND DRAW THEIR OWN CONCLUSIONS 1139 01:02:51,767 --> 01:02:54,800 AND TELL IT LIKE THEY WANT IT TO GO. 1140 01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:57,233 BECAUSE PEOPLE WOULD RATHER TALK ANY DAY OF THE WEEK 1141 01:02:57,233 --> 01:03:00,467 ABOUT SOMEBODY ELSE THAN SIT AND TALK ABOUT THEIR OWN PROBLEMS. 1142 01:03:00,467 --> 01:03:04,567 I MEAN, WHAT DO YOU THINK IT MAKES ME FEEL LIKE WHEN I HEAR PEOPLE SAY, 1143 01:03:04,567 --> 01:03:06,333 "I BELIEVE YOU KILLED CHRISTOPHER. 1144 01:03:06,333 --> 01:03:08,633 I BELIEVE YOU HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH KILLING MELISSA"? 1145 01:03:08,633 --> 01:03:11,800 I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW IT HURTS. 1146 01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:13,367 MAN, IT TEARS ME APART. 1147 01:03:13,367 --> 01:03:16,133 AND GO INTO A GROCERY STORE, GO ANYWHERE, 1148 01:03:16,133 --> 01:03:18,300 AND I'M SUBJECT TO WALKING INTO A FOOL WHO'LL SAY THAT. 1149 01:03:18,300 --> 01:03:21,100 YOU ALL BEEN WITH ME WHEN PEOPLE WALK UP AND SAY "DON'T I KNOW YOU? 1150 01:03:21,100 --> 01:03:24,133 - WASN'T YOU THE BABY-KILLER ON TV?" - Man #2: YEAH. 1151 01:03:24,133 --> 01:03:26,333 WELL, I'VE BEEN IN TWO FIGHTS MYSELF OVER IT. 1152 01:03:26,333 --> 01:03:27,600 Byers: WHAT WAS IT? 1153 01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:30,266 WELL, AT A BAR ONE NIGHT THERE IN MARKED TREE, 1154 01:03:30,266 --> 01:03:32,967 A DUDE COME UP AND SAID, "YEAH, THAT SORRY MARK BYERS. 1155 01:03:32,967 --> 01:03:36,834 HELL, THEM BOYS DIDN'T KILL HIS KID. HE WAS IN ON THAT. 1156 01:03:36,834 --> 01:03:39,100 HE WAS PROBABLY THE RINGLEADER ON IT." 1157 01:03:39,100 --> 01:03:42,667 UH, EXCUSE MY FRENCH, BUT I STOMPED HIS ASS RIGHT THERE ON THE SPOT. 1158 01:03:42,667 --> 01:03:45,433 Byers: YOU KNOW, I'VE HAD AN IGNORANT WOMAN, 1159 01:03:45,433 --> 01:03:47,734 SHE WAS A SCHOOLTEACHER THERE IN WEST MEMPHIS, 1160 01:03:47,734 --> 01:03:51,967 TAUGHT JESSIE MISSKELLEY IN HIS G.E.D.-- YOU KNOW, HIS ALTERNATIVE SCHOOL? 1161 01:03:51,967 --> 01:03:56,200 - YEAH. - AND THIS WOMAN SHOWED THE MOVIE "PARADISE LOST" 1162 01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:59,533 AND TALKED ABOUT HOW THAT I WAS BASICALLY GUILTY FOR IT, 1163 01:03:59,533 --> 01:04:03,533 AND THAT THE POLICE AND EVERYTHING FRAMED THEM THREE 1164 01:04:03,533 --> 01:04:04,834 AND THERE WAS NO CULT, 1165 01:04:04,834 --> 01:04:08,033 AND JESSIE MISSKELLEY WAS A GOOD LOVING BOY 1166 01:04:08,033 --> 01:04:10,533 AND JUST SUCH A KIND PERSON. 1167 01:04:10,533 --> 01:04:13,600 THOSE THREE ANIMALS TOOK MY BABY FROM ME 1168 01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:15,633 AND THEY TOOK MY WIFE FROM ME. 1169 01:04:15,633 --> 01:04:17,333 AND I SELF-DESTRUCTED. 1170 01:04:17,333 --> 01:04:20,500 AND, BUDDY, I'M TELLING YOU ABOUT IT, I GOT DOWNRIGHT MEAN. 1171 01:04:20,500 --> 01:04:22,400 THE PAIN THEY'VE CAUSED ME, 1172 01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:25,200 IT COST ME PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY 1173 01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:27,367 AND ALL THE FIGHTS AND ALL THAT I GOT INTO 1174 01:04:27,367 --> 01:04:29,033 BECAUSE I WENT TO LOOKING FOR THEM, 1175 01:04:29,033 --> 01:04:30,900 AND THE BRICKS THAT HIT ME IN THE HEAD 1176 01:04:30,900 --> 01:04:34,734 AND THE KNIVES THAT CUT THESE SCARS ON MY FACE 1177 01:04:34,734 --> 01:04:37,033 AND THE JERKS THAT HAD THE PRIVILEGE 1178 01:04:37,033 --> 01:04:39,166 OF KNOCKING TEETH OUT OF MY MOUTH, 1179 01:04:39,166 --> 01:04:41,266 WELL, THAT'S BECAUSE OF THEM THREE ANIMALS 1180 01:04:41,266 --> 01:04:44,934 THAT PROVOKED ME SO TO GET INTO A VIOLENT RAGE LIKE I HAD. 1181 01:04:44,934 --> 01:04:47,333 AND THAT'S WHAT IT COST ME-- A WHOLE SET OF TEETH. 1182 01:04:47,333 --> 01:04:50,233 BUT THAT'S ALL RIGHT BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA PAY FOR IT. 1183 01:04:50,233 --> 01:04:52,433 AND I CAN'T IMAGINE WHY PEOPLE 1184 01:04:52,433 --> 01:04:54,533 WANT TO SAY THE THINGS THAT THEY SAY ABOUT ME. 1185 01:04:54,533 --> 01:04:56,300 I MEAN, WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK? 1186 01:04:56,300 --> 01:05:00,533 WHY THE HELL DO PEOPLE WANT TO TRY TO ACCUSE ME OF BEING INVOLVED IN THAT? 1187 01:05:00,533 --> 01:05:02,500 YOU'VE ALWAYS BEEN AN OUT-FRONT PERSON. 1188 01:05:02,500 --> 01:05:04,200 YOU'VE BEEN A LEADER, NOT A FOLLOWER. 1189 01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:06,066 I WAS NOT MEANING TO BE AN INDIVIDUAL-- 1190 01:05:06,066 --> 01:05:08,066 Man #2: WELL NO, BUT YOU COULD HAVE BEEN. 1191 01:05:08,066 --> 01:05:11,333 I MEAN, YOU COULD BE MEAN WHEN MEAN GETS MEAN. YOU CAN GET MEAN. 1192 01:05:11,333 --> 01:05:13,767 - YOU'VE ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY. - PEOPLE JUST DON'T KNOW YOU. 1193 01:05:13,767 --> 01:05:16,166 IT'S THE ONLY REASON THEY'RE TALKING LIKE THEY ARE ABOUT YOU. 1194 01:05:16,166 --> 01:05:19,500 BECAUSE IF THEY KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT YOU, THEY WOULDN'T BE SAYING IT. 1195 01:05:19,500 --> 01:05:22,633 AND I CAN'T TELL YOU ALL HOW MUCH I LOVE YOU, YOU KNOW, 1196 01:05:22,633 --> 01:05:26,734 FOR BEING CLOSER THAN A BROTHER, BUT ALWAYS BEING THERE FOR ME. 1197 01:05:26,734 --> 01:05:28,734 I'VE BEEN THERE AND I'M GONNA BE THERE 1198 01:05:28,734 --> 01:05:32,700 - AND I'LL BE THERE UNTIL-- UNTIL HELL FREEZES OVER. - I KNOW YOU WILL. 1199 01:05:32,700 --> 01:05:34,734 IF YOU WASN'T WORTHY OF IT, IT WOULDN'T BE THERE. 1200 01:05:34,734 --> 01:05:37,633 - YOU'VE GOT MY WORD ON THAT. - YOU AIN'T GIVING ME NOTHING FOR NOTHING, ARE YOU? 1201 01:05:37,633 --> 01:05:40,066 - NO, SIR. - AIN'T NOTHING FOR FREE, IS IT? 1202 01:05:40,066 --> 01:05:41,767 - HUH-UH. - AND HAVE I PAID MY DUES? 1203 01:05:41,767 --> 01:05:43,900 - YES SIR, YOU SURE HAVE. - YOU'RE DAMNED RIGHT. 1204 01:05:43,900 --> 01:05:47,734 - YOU DAMNED RIGHT. - AND THE WORLD NEEDS TO KNOW ABOUT IT, DON'T THEY? 1205 01:05:47,734 --> 01:05:50,133 - THEY SURE DO. - THEY NEED TO KNOW THE TRUTH 1206 01:05:50,133 --> 01:05:53,000 AND THAT'S WHAT WE'S SITTING HERE TALKING ABOUT IS THE TRUTH. 1207 01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:55,900 - THAT'S RIGHT. - AND THE DEVIL-WORSHIPPING SON OF A BITCHES 1208 01:05:55,900 --> 01:05:58,100 ARE THE MURDERERS OUT THERE, NOT THE VICTIMS. 1209 01:05:58,100 --> 01:06:01,300 - THERE IT IS. - AND THERE'S THREE FAMILIES THAT'S VICTIMS. 1210 01:06:01,300 --> 01:06:05,667 AND I'D JUST LIKE TO CATCH THOSE THREE. 1211 01:06:05,667 --> 01:06:09,200 IF YOU EVER GET WITHIN ARM'S REACH OF THIS ARM RIGHT HERE, 1212 01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:11,367 YOU A PAID-FOR SON OF A BITCH. 1213 01:06:11,367 --> 01:06:13,667 YOU'VE GOT MY WORD ON IT. 1214 01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:22,867 Female reporter: DAMIEN, HOW MUCH HOPE DO YOU HAVE OF A FAVORABLE RULING? 1215 01:06:29,867 --> 01:06:32,266 I KNOW THIS IS HARD ON YOU. 1216 01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:37,367 WHY IS IT SO IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO BE HERE, 1217 01:06:37,367 --> 01:06:39,200 FOR YOUR SON TO SEE YOU IN THE COURTROOM? 1218 01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:42,333 THERE'S NO REASON FOR THEM TO BE HERE. THEY WERE FALSELY ACCUSED. 1219 01:06:42,333 --> 01:06:45,467 THE WEST MEMPHIS POLICE DEPARTMENT DID A BOTCHED JOB 1220 01:06:45,467 --> 01:06:47,166 JUST TO GET THESE BOYS ARRESTED. 1221 01:06:47,166 --> 01:06:50,166 SOMEBODY HAD TO BE ARRESTED. IT'S RIDICULOUS. 1222 01:06:50,166 --> 01:06:53,767 - DO YOU FEEL LIKE THE HBO FILM AFFECTED THIS CASE? - I THINK IT HELPED A LOT. 1223 01:06:53,767 --> 01:06:55,633 - Woman: YOU THINK IT HELPED? - YES, I DO. 1224 01:06:55,633 --> 01:06:58,266 - Woman: IT HELPED YOUR SON? - YES, I THINK SO. 1225 01:06:58,266 --> 01:06:59,700 - WHY'S THAT? - Woman: HOW IS THAT? 1226 01:06:59,700 --> 01:07:02,266 UM, I JUST THINK THAT IT SHOWS ENOUGH OF BOTH SIDES 1227 01:07:02,266 --> 01:07:04,333 TO WHERE 1228 01:07:04,333 --> 01:07:07,433 YOU CAN KIND OF SEE A PERSONAL SIDE OF DAMIEN. 1229 01:07:07,433 --> 01:07:09,967 DO YOU FEEL LIKE THAT HIS ATTORNEYS, 1230 01:07:09,967 --> 01:07:13,367 THAT HIS FORMER ATTORNEY DID NOT DO AN ADEQUATE JOB? 1231 01:07:13,367 --> 01:07:16,667 WELL, FROM WHAT I'M SEEING, IT LOOKS LIKE HE DIDN'T. 1232 01:07:16,667 --> 01:07:18,600 WHAT IS THE PERSONAL SIDE OF DAMIEN? 1233 01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:21,000 - UM... - YOU KNOW HIM BETTER THAN ANYONE. 1234 01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:22,800 HE'S VERY MUCH LIKE MYSELF. 1235 01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:24,433 HE USUALLY KEEPS TO HISSELF 1236 01:07:24,433 --> 01:07:26,867 AND HE DOESN'T REALLY EVER BOTHER ANYONE. 1237 01:07:26,867 --> 01:07:28,934 WE'RE BOTH VERY PRIVATE. 1238 01:07:28,934 --> 01:07:31,367 Man: SO WHAT DO YOU HOPE HAPPENS WHEN THIS WRAPS UP? 1239 01:07:31,367 --> 01:07:35,900 I HOPE EVERYONE CAN SEE THIS FOR THE JOKE THAT IT REALLY IS. 1240 01:07:37,100 --> 01:07:38,600 OKAY. 1241 01:07:46,266 --> 01:07:48,133 Director: Five seconds. 1242 01:07:48,133 --> 01:07:51,600 3:30, Tim, 3:30. Two seconds. 1243 01:07:58,233 --> 01:08:00,367 Daniel Stidham-- he defended 1244 01:08:00,367 --> 01:08:04,000 one of the three individuals convicted in this case, Jessie Misskelley. 1245 01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:07,133 Thank you for being with us. All right, Damien Echols... 1246 01:08:07,133 --> 01:08:11,500 uh, he received money which was supposed to aid in his defense. 1247 01:08:11,500 --> 01:08:15,967 How does this harm his trial, his right to a fair trail? 1248 01:08:15,967 --> 01:08:18,367 In my opinion, Gregg, it didn't. 1249 01:08:18,367 --> 01:08:23,000 I-I-- I personally don't subscribe to that point of view. 1250 01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,767 Gregg Jarre Interesting. Let me turn now to Ray Brown 1251 01:08:25,767 --> 01:08:29,233 who is a veteran criminal defense attorney and our colleague here at Court TV. 1252 01:08:29,233 --> 01:08:31,233 Is there a conflict of interest here? 1253 01:08:31,233 --> 01:08:34,367 Mr. Stidham, who was involved in it himself, doesn't think so. 1254 01:08:34,367 --> 01:08:36,700 Let's get to the real question, Gregg, which is that 1255 01:08:36,700 --> 01:08:40,367 because this country is, in many areas, so strongly in favor of death penalty 1256 01:08:40,367 --> 01:08:44,066 that we underfund the defense. I think Mr. Stidham can tell you 1257 01:08:44,066 --> 01:08:46,266 that he earned something like $19 an hour 1258 01:08:46,266 --> 01:08:48,166 for his representation of his client. 1259 01:08:48,166 --> 01:08:51,200 The lawyers for Echols got a little bit more, 1260 01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:53,300 but nowhere near the money needed-- 1261 01:08:53,300 --> 01:08:55,500 and $1,000 limit on money for experts 1262 01:08:55,500 --> 01:08:58,433 in a case that is fairly saturated with scientific proof. 1263 01:08:58,433 --> 01:09:00,367 So this is the kind of case in which 1264 01:09:00,367 --> 01:09:03,834 we have to look at the question of whether the defendants were given a war chest. 1265 01:09:03,834 --> 01:09:06,367 Because it's really the argument of the defense here 1266 01:09:06,367 --> 01:09:08,400 that, in fact, the lawyers for Echols 1267 01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:11,300 were forced to make some kind of an agreement that involved 1268 01:09:11,300 --> 01:09:14,033 letting their client's conversations be overheard 1269 01:09:14,033 --> 01:09:16,467 because they didn't have the resources to fight the case. 1270 01:09:16,467 --> 01:09:18,900 Not something to be lightly tossed away or endangered. 1271 01:09:18,900 --> 01:09:21,233 Daniel Stidham, if you had had a lot of money, 1272 01:09:21,233 --> 01:09:22,934 what would you have done with it? 1273 01:09:22,934 --> 01:09:26,100 We would do some of the things that we're doing right now 1274 01:09:26,100 --> 01:09:28,066 with regard to the forensic evidence. 1275 01:09:28,066 --> 01:09:29,600 Jarre All right, Dan Stidham, 1276 01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:33,300 anybody who defends somebody in a capital death penalty case, 1277 01:09:33,300 --> 01:09:34,633 I take my hat off to you. 1278 01:09:34,633 --> 01:09:37,433 You're deserving of many thanks for that, 1279 01:09:37,433 --> 01:09:40,433 regardless of the circumstances, guilt or innocence. 1280 01:09:40,433 --> 01:09:42,133 And thank you for being with us. 1281 01:09:42,133 --> 01:09:43,900 We appreciate it. 1282 01:09:51,066 --> 01:09:54,133 Stidham: HOW CAN THE MEDICAL EXAMINER, 1283 01:09:54,133 --> 01:09:57,266 WHEN HE CONDUCTS AN AUTOPSY, HOW CAN HE MISS 1284 01:09:57,266 --> 01:10:00,867 A BITE MARK ON-- ON-- ON THE VICTIM'S FACE? 1285 01:10:00,867 --> 01:10:03,734 Turvey: THE REALITY IS WITH ANY KIND OF PHYSICAL EVIDENCE, 1286 01:10:03,734 --> 01:10:06,500 WITH ANY KIND OF PHYSICAL IMPRINT OF EVIDENCE LIKE THAT 1287 01:10:06,500 --> 01:10:10,166 OR PATTERN INJURIES LIKE THAT, YOU HAVE TO REALLY BE TRAINED TO LOOK FOR THEM. 1288 01:10:10,166 --> 01:10:12,867 IF YOU'RE NOT LOOKING FOR IT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO FIND IT. 1289 01:10:12,867 --> 01:10:16,533 AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, YOU HAVE A PREPONDERANCE OF BITE-MARK EVIDENCE 1290 01:10:16,533 --> 01:10:19,967 THAT SEEMS VERY GOOD AND YOU'RE LIKELY TO GET A VERY GOOD RESULT OFF OF. 1291 01:10:19,967 --> 01:10:22,433 BITE-MARK EVIDENCE IS THE KIND OF EVIDENCE THAT GOT BUNDY 1292 01:10:22,433 --> 01:10:24,700 AND THAT'S THE KIND OF EVIDENCE THAT'S GOING TO GET 1293 01:10:24,700 --> 01:10:27,100 THE INDIVIDUAL WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR THESE CRIMES. 1294 01:10:27,100 --> 01:10:29,734 WE REALLY HAVE TO BE CAREFUL TO PROTECT THE INFORMATION 1295 01:10:29,734 --> 01:10:32,633 THAT WE HAVE IN THAT REPORT, AND NOT DISSEMINATE IT TO INDIVIDUALS 1296 01:10:32,633 --> 01:10:34,800 WHO ARE POTENTIALLY GOING TO RELEASE IT. 1297 01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:37,467 BECAUSE IN MY EXPERIENCE IN CASES THAT I'VE WORKED ON 1298 01:10:37,467 --> 01:10:41,667 WHEN THERE'S AN OFFENDER WHO FINDS OUT THERE'S BITE-MARK EVIDENCE 1299 01:10:41,667 --> 01:10:44,867 THAT'S POTENTIALLY GOING TO BE USED AGAINST THEM, EVEN IN PRISON, 1300 01:10:44,867 --> 01:10:47,467 THEY'RE GOING TO BE MAKING A VISIT TO THE PRISON DENTIST 1301 01:10:47,467 --> 01:10:49,633 AND THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THOSE TEETH REMOVED 1302 01:10:49,633 --> 01:10:53,066 BECAUSE THEY DO NOT WANT THAT EVIDENCE LINKED BACK TO THEM. 1303 01:10:53,066 --> 01:10:55,133 THEY KNOW THAT BITE-MARK EVIDENCE 1304 01:10:55,133 --> 01:10:57,600 IS JUST AS GOOD AS A FINGERPRINT IN A COURT OF LAW. 1305 01:10:59,166 --> 01:11:01,133 MARK, ARE YOU MARRIED? 1306 01:11:01,133 --> 01:11:02,367 NO SIR, I'M WIDOWED. 1307 01:11:02,367 --> 01:11:06,600 MY WIFE PASSED AWAY MARCH 29th OF '96. 1308 01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:09,533 I'M SORRY TO HEAR THAT. MARCH 29th OF '96. 1309 01:11:09,533 --> 01:11:12,333 - WHERE WAS THIS AT? - IN CHEROKEE VILLAGE. 1310 01:11:12,333 --> 01:11:14,767 CHEROKEE VILLAGE. A NATURAL DEATH? 1311 01:11:14,767 --> 01:11:17,166 UH, CAUSE OF DEATH UNDETERMINABLE. 1312 01:11:17,166 --> 01:11:19,100 WHAT DO YOU-- 1313 01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:24,033 DO YOU HAVE ANY FEELINGS ABOUT IT? I MEAN... 1314 01:11:24,033 --> 01:11:28,166 - YES SIR. - WHAT ARE THEY, IF YOU WANT TO REVEAL IT TO ME? 1315 01:11:28,166 --> 01:11:31,900 MY WIFE HAD GIVEN UP HER WILL TO LIVE 1316 01:11:31,900 --> 01:11:33,867 AFTER OUR BABY WAS MURDERED. 1317 01:11:33,867 --> 01:11:37,066 AND SHE JUST DIDN'T WANT TO LIVE ANYMORE. 1318 01:11:37,066 --> 01:11:39,800 AND SHE GOT INTO AN ADDICTION 1319 01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:41,900 AND I THINK THE ADDICTION HELPED KILL HER. 1320 01:11:41,900 --> 01:11:43,200 - DRUGS? - YES SIR. 1321 01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:45,533 - WHAT-- WHAT TYPE? - DILAUDID. 1322 01:11:45,533 --> 01:11:49,133 HAVE YOU HAD ANY OTHER PROBLEMS WITH THE POLICE? 1323 01:11:49,133 --> 01:11:50,800 NOT MAJOR, NO SIR. 1324 01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:53,066 YOU'VE HAD PROBLEMS, IS THAT WHAT YOU SAYING? 1325 01:11:53,066 --> 01:11:54,934 OH WELL, SPEEDING TICKETS, 1326 01:11:54,934 --> 01:11:58,967 I GOT A D.W.I. ONE TIME AFTER MY WIFE WAS MURDERED. 1327 01:12:00,333 --> 01:12:03,967 UH, NOTHING REALLY MAJOR, NO. 1328 01:12:03,967 --> 01:12:07,934 - NO ROBBERY, NO STEALING? - OH NO. NO FELONIES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. 1329 01:12:07,934 --> 01:12:09,567 OKAY. 1330 01:12:09,567 --> 01:12:12,333 FROM WHAT I SEE, WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME IS 1331 01:12:12,333 --> 01:12:17,233 YOU ARE NOT A HATEFUL MEAN PERSON, 1332 01:12:17,233 --> 01:12:19,333 YOU'RE NOT THE KIND OF PERSON WHO GOES AROUND 1333 01:12:19,333 --> 01:12:23,266 CAUSING DISTRESS TO PEOPLE. YOU DON'T STEAL. YOU DON'T-- 1334 01:12:23,266 --> 01:12:25,533 YOU DON'T GO OUT OF YOUR WAY TO HARM PEOPLE... 1335 01:12:25,533 --> 01:12:28,100 - NO SIR. - ...OR ANYTHING LIKE THIS. 1336 01:12:28,100 --> 01:12:31,166 - I PRETTY MUCH-- - AND YOU SAID THERE WAS MAYBE ONE TIME EVER 1337 01:12:31,166 --> 01:12:34,066 THAT YOU HAD HURT SOMEONE IN A FIGHT OR SOMETHING. 1338 01:12:34,066 --> 01:12:37,834 OH, I'M SURE. IN FOOTBALL GAMES I HURT PEOPLE, YOU KNOW. 1339 01:12:37,834 --> 01:12:40,400 YEAH, BUT YOU KNOW FOOTBALL'S ONE THING, 1340 01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:42,400 BUT DID YOU GOT OUT THERE MEANING TO HURT SOMEBODY? 1341 01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:44,867 OH NO, I WENT OUT THERE FOR THE SPORT OF THE GAME, YOU KNOW. 1342 01:12:44,867 --> 01:12:47,367 IF YOU DO SOMETHING, I THINK THAT KIND OF COMES WITH THE TERRITORY. 1343 01:12:47,367 --> 01:12:48,900 IF YOU GET HURT, IT COMES WITH IT, 1344 01:12:48,900 --> 01:12:51,333 NOW IF SOMEBODY INTENTIONALLY LOW-BLOCKS YOU 1345 01:12:51,333 --> 01:12:54,066 OR TRIPS YOU TO INJURE YOU, THAT'S ONE THING. 1346 01:12:54,066 --> 01:12:55,567 - DID YOU EVER DO THAT? - NO SIR. 1347 01:12:55,567 --> 01:12:57,900 I PLAYED TIGHT END. I CAUGHT THE BALL AND RAN. 1348 01:12:57,900 --> 01:12:59,533 DID YOU EVER WANT TO HURT SOMEBODY? 1349 01:12:59,533 --> 01:13:02,533 YES SIR, THERE'S THREE PEOPLE RIGHT NOW I'D LIKE TO HURT. 1350 01:13:02,533 --> 01:13:05,266 WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THOSE THREE PEOPLE? 1351 01:13:05,266 --> 01:13:07,500 NO SIR. 1352 01:13:10,433 --> 01:13:12,800 Gitchell: THERE WERE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE 1353 01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:16,133 THAT LOOKED LIKE GOOD SUSPECTS INITIALLY. 1354 01:13:16,133 --> 01:13:17,834 LIKE A PHONE CALL WOULD COME IN 1355 01:13:17,834 --> 01:13:19,834 AND YOU WOULD START CHECKING ON IT 1356 01:13:19,834 --> 01:13:22,834 AND IT WAS LIKE, HEY, WE MAY HAVE SOMETHING HERE. 1357 01:13:22,834 --> 01:13:24,200 AND THEN YOU'D FIND OUT, 1358 01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:27,367 WELL NO, THERE'S NO WAY THIS PERSON COULD HAVE DONE IT. 1359 01:13:27,367 --> 01:13:31,367 SO I MEAN, I THINK AT THE TIME I REFERRED TO IT AS 1360 01:13:31,367 --> 01:13:33,567 "AN EMOTIONAL ROLLER COASTER." 1361 01:13:33,567 --> 01:13:36,800 YOU JUST HAD UPS AND DOWNS, UPS AND DOWNS. 1362 01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:38,600 AND THAT JUST WEARS YOU OUT. 1363 01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:41,467 I KNOW THAT FOR A PERIOD OF TIME, 1364 01:13:41,467 --> 01:13:43,633 A COUPLE OF WEEKS INTO THE CASE-- 1365 01:13:43,633 --> 01:13:46,533 MAYBE TWO TO THREE WEEKS INTO THE CASE, 1366 01:13:46,533 --> 01:13:49,166 AT THAT POINT I WAS PERSONALLY FEELING LIKE 1367 01:13:49,166 --> 01:13:51,967 DAMIEN WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS. 1368 01:13:51,967 --> 01:13:55,800 AND I GOT TO THE POINT WHERE I COULD SEE HIM 1369 01:13:55,800 --> 01:13:58,200 AT THE DOORWAY OF MY BEDROOM. 1370 01:13:58,200 --> 01:14:00,233 I'M SURE A LOT OF THAT HAD TO DO WITH 1371 01:14:00,233 --> 01:14:04,533 JUST BEING EXHAUSTED PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY AND NO SLEEP. 1372 01:14:04,533 --> 01:14:08,066 BUT JUST REALLY REALLY EVEN BECOMING 1373 01:14:08,066 --> 01:14:10,867 A LITTLE PARANOID AND TERRIFIED MYSELF. 1374 01:14:10,867 --> 01:14:14,800 I THINK GARY GITCHELL HAS AN OVERACTIVE IMAGINATION. 1375 01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:18,133 I BELIEVE DEEP IN HIS HEART THAT HE KNOWS 1376 01:14:18,133 --> 01:14:20,200 THAT WE DID NOT COMMIT THOSE MURDERS. 1377 01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:23,500 BUT NOW IT'S TOO LATE FOR HIM TO COME FORWARD AND SAY THAT-- 1378 01:14:23,500 --> 01:14:26,433 TO SAY HE MADE A MISTAKE. AND AT THIS POINT IN TIME, 1379 01:14:26,433 --> 01:14:30,000 I MEAN, THAT WOULD-- IT'S JUST SOMETHING HE CAN'T DO NOW. 1380 01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:34,700 SO I THINK HE'S KIND OF BEEN PLAYING THIS PART FOR SO LONG 1381 01:14:34,700 --> 01:14:36,867 THAT NOW HE PROBABLY BELIEVES 1382 01:14:36,867 --> 01:14:39,533 THIS PART HE'S BEEN PLAYING HIMSELF. 1383 01:14:39,533 --> 01:14:42,533 HE'S FOOLED HIMSELF INTO THINKING IT'S TRUE. 1384 01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:49,033 ( keyboard clacking ) 1385 01:14:52,734 --> 01:14:54,834 OKAY, HERE'S THE QUESTION: BILL SAYS, 1386 01:14:54,834 --> 01:14:59,433 WHAT DID YOU THINK OF "PARADISE LOST" AND YOUR HAIRCUT THEN? 1387 01:14:59,433 --> 01:15:01,934 Damien: That haircut was actually given to me 1388 01:15:01,934 --> 01:15:04,100 about five minutes before the hearing, 1389 01:15:04,100 --> 01:15:05,800 by a woman in the back room 1390 01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:07,834 with a pair of plastic scissors. 1391 01:15:07,834 --> 01:15:10,467 I was not to blame for that haircut. 1392 01:15:10,467 --> 01:15:13,433 As for the movie itself, 1393 01:15:13,433 --> 01:15:18,033 it was very emotional for me. 1394 01:15:19,433 --> 01:15:22,700 I think I went through the entire range of emotions 1395 01:15:22,700 --> 01:15:25,033 while I was watching it. 1396 01:15:26,700 --> 01:15:30,033 I think it made me a little homesick. 1397 01:15:30,033 --> 01:15:32,500 - Sauls: REALLY? - Yeah. 1398 01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:35,834 Bakken: WAS IT WEIRD TO SEE JASON AGAIN? 1399 01:15:35,834 --> 01:15:38,967 Yeah, he didn't even look like I remembered, 1400 01:15:38,967 --> 01:15:40,900 I guess because so many years have gone by 1401 01:15:40,900 --> 01:15:43,467 that I had begun to forget what he looked like 1402 01:15:43,467 --> 01:15:45,233 until I saw him on there. 1403 01:15:45,233 --> 01:15:47,767 And when I was looking at that, 1404 01:15:47,767 --> 01:15:50,800 we were both children. We were still kids. 1405 01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:53,266 The entire way that I carried myself back then, 1406 01:15:53,266 --> 01:15:56,033 my entire demeanor back then as compared to now, 1407 01:15:56,033 --> 01:15:59,000 I think I've changed a very great deal. 1408 01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:01,467 DID YOU FEEL ROPED INTO DOING "PARADISE LOST," 1409 01:16:01,467 --> 01:16:03,667 FORCED INTO IT? OR DID YOU PRETTY MUCH TRUST THESE GUYS? 1410 01:16:03,667 --> 01:16:05,433 No no, I wanted to do it. 1411 01:16:05,433 --> 01:16:08,500 You know, at the time we needed some kind of positive publicity 1412 01:16:08,500 --> 01:16:11,233 or at least some way, some kind of forum 1413 01:16:11,233 --> 01:16:14,900 to express what I wanted to say 1414 01:16:14,900 --> 01:16:18,300 to kind of combat just what the prosecution was releasing 1415 01:16:18,300 --> 01:16:21,233 to the media, some kind of objective thing where 1416 01:16:21,233 --> 01:16:23,200 I could actually express something. 1417 01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:26,800 But I also did it because I just thought it would be fun. 1418 01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:29,000 SO YOU TRUSTED THE FILMMAKERS PRETTY MUCH 1419 01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:32,934 TO DO A FAIR PORTRAYAL OF WHAT WAS GOING ON? 1420 01:16:32,934 --> 01:16:35,700 Yeah, I trusted them. But at the same time even if I didn't, 1421 01:16:35,700 --> 01:16:39,166 - what did I have to lose? - Bakken: THIS IS TRUE. 1422 01:16:39,166 --> 01:16:41,300 WHAT DID YOU THINK OF BYERS? 1423 01:16:41,300 --> 01:16:43,734 I think Byers is probably the fakest creature 1424 01:16:43,734 --> 01:16:46,066 to ever walk on two legs. 1425 01:16:46,066 --> 01:16:49,500 I don't think there's a true thing about him. 1426 01:16:49,500 --> 01:16:52,100 He puts on all these false faces. 1427 01:16:52,100 --> 01:16:54,900 He'll act one way whenever they have cameras on him 1428 01:16:54,900 --> 01:16:56,967 and another way when he's by hisself. 1429 01:16:56,967 --> 01:17:00,567 He has about 30 different faces. 1430 01:17:00,567 --> 01:17:03,533 Bakken: SO SEEING HIM IN THE MOVIE DIDN'T CHANGE 1431 01:17:03,533 --> 01:17:06,100 HOW-- ANY OF YOUR OPINIONS ABOUT HIM THEN? 1432 01:17:06,100 --> 01:17:08,834 Well, I think it reinforced 1433 01:17:08,834 --> 01:17:10,333 the opinions that I have about him. 1434 01:17:10,333 --> 01:17:11,900 I still believe with all my heart 1435 01:17:11,900 --> 01:17:14,500 that he is the person who killed those three children. 1436 01:17:14,500 --> 01:17:18,033 - And... - Bakken: ALONE? 1437 01:17:18,033 --> 01:17:19,867 I have no sympathy for Byers. 1438 01:17:19,867 --> 01:17:23,166 I'm sitting here on death row for a crime that he committed. 1439 01:17:23,166 --> 01:17:25,967 That in itself is enough to make me have no sympathy for him-- 1440 01:17:25,967 --> 01:17:30,100 but then also the fact that he killed three little kids. 1441 01:17:30,100 --> 01:17:32,633 Bakken: DO YOU THINK MELISSA HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT? 1442 01:17:32,633 --> 01:17:34,633 I don't think she actually participated 1443 01:17:34,633 --> 01:17:36,200 in the act of killing them, 1444 01:17:36,200 --> 01:17:38,700 but I think she participated in covering it up. 1445 01:17:38,700 --> 01:17:40,967 I firmly believe that she knew, 1446 01:17:40,967 --> 01:17:44,133 and I think that's why she's dead now. 1447 01:17:44,133 --> 01:17:48,100 IF YOU COULD SAY-- IF YOU COULD GIVE BYERS A MESSAGE, WHAT WOULD IT BE? 1448 01:17:48,100 --> 01:17:50,333 I wouldn't say anything to Mark Byers. 1449 01:17:50,333 --> 01:17:52,166 Mark Byers is beneath me. 1450 01:17:52,166 --> 01:17:55,867 He doesn't even deserve my contempt. 1451 01:17:58,867 --> 01:18:01,033 ( music playing ) 1452 01:18:59,633 --> 01:19:03,667 Byers: YOU BUTCHERED MY BABIES OUT HERE. 1453 01:19:03,667 --> 01:19:07,967 I SWORE THAT I'D STAND AT YOUR GRAVE AND CUSS IT. 1454 01:19:07,967 --> 01:19:10,967 WELL, I'M DOING IT A LITTLE BIT EARLY. 1455 01:19:16,100 --> 01:19:18,834 I'M GOING TO BURY YOU THREE BASTARDS RIGHT HERE 1456 01:19:18,834 --> 01:19:21,300 AND SEND YOU TO HELL. 1457 01:19:39,100 --> 01:19:40,867 THIS CRIME SCENE TAPE, 1458 01:19:40,867 --> 01:19:43,533 THAT COME OFF OF WHAT THEY STRETCHED IN FRONT OF ME 1459 01:19:43,533 --> 01:19:46,600 WHEN THEY FOUND MY BABIES OUT HERE-- 1460 01:19:46,600 --> 01:19:49,166 WOULDN'T LET ME BY. 1461 01:19:49,166 --> 01:19:51,400 I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST FITTING 1462 01:19:51,400 --> 01:19:55,066 TO BRING IT BACK TO YOUR MEMORIAL FUND. 1463 01:19:57,066 --> 01:19:59,800 JESSIE, YOU GOT YOUR FLOWERS. 1464 01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:04,133 THAT'S YOUR HEAD MARKER, YOU ANIMAL. 1465 01:20:04,133 --> 01:20:06,133 TO DAMIEN... 1466 01:20:08,533 --> 01:20:11,166 JASON, THERE'S YOURS. 1467 01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:25,400 YOU WANT TO WORSHIP THE DEVIL? 1468 01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:28,333 SEE HIM. I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU A FAREWELL PARTY. 1469 01:20:31,867 --> 01:20:34,300 NOW WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME FUN. 1470 01:20:36,133 --> 01:20:38,734 I'M GOING TO TRY TO HELP SEND YOU ON YOUR WAY. 1471 01:20:40,900 --> 01:20:43,800 YOU DONE GOT ALL OF MY BLESSINGS, WHICH AREN'T NONE. 1472 01:20:55,066 --> 01:20:57,667 WHAT YOU THINK, YOU READY TO DIE? 1473 01:20:57,667 --> 01:20:59,500 FIRE FOR FIRE 1474 01:20:59,500 --> 01:21:02,100 AND DEATH FOR DEATH. 1475 01:21:03,667 --> 01:21:06,433 LIVE THROUGH THIS FIRE, YOU ANIMAL. 1476 01:21:08,133 --> 01:21:10,333 WHAT, IT AIN'T HOT ENOUGH FOR YOU? 1477 01:21:15,834 --> 01:21:18,900 THIS IS THE DITCH THAT YOU KILLED THEM IN, 1478 01:21:18,900 --> 01:21:20,567 DO YOU REMEMBER? 1479 01:21:24,233 --> 01:21:26,834 YOU WANTED TO EAT MY BABY'S TESTICLES? 1480 01:21:26,834 --> 01:21:29,333 BURN, YOU SON OF A BITCH, BURN. 1481 01:21:29,333 --> 01:21:31,700 BURN AND GO TO HELL! BURN! 1482 01:21:33,066 --> 01:21:37,133 CAN YOU REMEMBER SCREAMING AND HEARING THEM HOLLER? 1483 01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:41,233 I STOMP ON YOUR GRAVE! I STOMP ON YOUR GRAVE! 1484 01:21:41,233 --> 01:21:44,934 I STOMP ON YOUR GRAVE! 1485 01:21:46,800 --> 01:21:50,633 BURN AND GO TO HELL! 1486 01:21:51,767 --> 01:21:54,066 BURN YOU LIKE YOU DESERVE TO BURN. 1487 01:21:55,500 --> 01:21:59,633 ♪ WELL, DOLLS OF VOODOO ♪ 1488 01:21:59,633 --> 01:22:03,767 ♪ ALL STUCK WITH PINS ♪ 1489 01:22:03,767 --> 01:22:10,000 ♪ ONE FOR EACH OF US AND OUR SINS... ♪ 1490 01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:13,667 Fogleman: LOOKING AT YOUNG PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THE OCCULT, 1491 01:22:13,667 --> 01:22:17,133 DO YOU SEE ANY PARTICULAR TYPE OF DRESS? 1492 01:22:17,133 --> 01:22:22,100 I HAVE PERSONALLY OBSERVED PEOPLE WEARING, UM, 1493 01:22:22,100 --> 01:22:23,800 BLACK FINGERNAILS, 1494 01:22:23,800 --> 01:22:26,400 HAVING THEIR HAIR PAINTED BLACK, 1495 01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:28,867 WEARING BLACK T-SHIRTS, 1496 01:22:28,867 --> 01:22:33,567 SOMETIMES THEY WILL TATTOO THEMSELVES. 1497 01:22:33,567 --> 01:22:35,266 LOOK AT HISTORY. 1498 01:22:35,266 --> 01:22:38,567 LOOK AT HUNDREDS OF YEARS OF RELIGIOUS HISTORY. 1499 01:22:38,567 --> 01:22:41,266 THERE HAVE BEEN HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE KILLED 1500 01:22:41,266 --> 01:22:43,066 IN THE NAME OF RELIGION. 1501 01:22:43,066 --> 01:22:45,000 IT IS A MOTIVATING FORCE. 1502 01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:48,066 IT GIVES PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DO EVIL, 1503 01:22:48,066 --> 01:22:52,667 WANT TO COMMIT MURDERS, A REASON TO DO WHAT THEY'RE DOING. 1504 01:22:52,667 --> 01:22:54,867 WEST MEMPHIS IS PRETTY MUCH 1505 01:22:54,867 --> 01:22:58,500 LIKE A SECOND SALEM, YOU KNOW. 1506 01:22:58,500 --> 01:23:02,266 'CAUSE EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS THERE-- EVERY CRIME 1507 01:23:02,266 --> 01:23:06,000 NO MATTER WHAT IT IS, IT'S BLAMED ON SATANISM. 1508 01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:11,100 Pashley: THIS CASE HAS ATTRACTED A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE 1509 01:23:11,100 --> 01:23:13,000 THAT RELATE TO DAMIEN. 1510 01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:16,266 AND IT SCARED THE HELL OUT OF THEM SO THAT'S WHY THEY WANT TO BE THERE. 1511 01:23:16,266 --> 01:23:18,000 AND YET, YOU'VE GOT TO TELL THEM, 1512 01:23:18,000 --> 01:23:20,767 IF THEY DRESS IN BLACK, MAN, THAT'S NOT GOING TO HELP DAMIEN AT ALL, 1513 01:23:20,767 --> 01:23:23,333 'CAUSE IT'S JUST GOING TO LOOK LIKE DAMIEN HAS A CULT FOLLOWING. 1514 01:23:23,333 --> 01:23:26,667 WE DRESSED IN SUITS AND THEY STILL THOUGHT WE WERE IN A CULT. 1515 01:23:26,667 --> 01:23:28,767 SO I MEAN IF WE GET PEOPLE AT THE HEARING 1516 01:23:28,767 --> 01:23:32,967 THAT INSIST ON DRESSING IN ALL THEIR GOTH GLORY, 1517 01:23:32,967 --> 01:23:36,066 THEN IT'S JUST GOING TO CONFIRM EVERYTHING THAT THEY THINK-- 1518 01:23:36,066 --> 01:23:37,433 THAT THERE'S STILL A CULT, 1519 01:23:37,433 --> 01:23:39,734 THAT DAMIEN'S STILL CONTROLLING THE CULT FROM PRISON. 1520 01:23:39,734 --> 01:23:42,400 I MEAN PEOPLE WERE TELLING ME THAT STUFF-- I MEAN REPORTERS. 1521 01:23:42,400 --> 01:23:45,500 I WAS ASKED BY A REPORTER IF I WAS A MEMBER OF DAMIEN'S CULT. 1522 01:23:45,500 --> 01:23:48,834 - ME TOO. - AND I'M STANDING THERE WEARING A SUIT. 1523 01:23:48,834 --> 01:23:50,734 I THOUGHT I WAS DRESSED LIKE A GUY, 1524 01:23:50,734 --> 01:23:52,266 LIKE A NORMAL PERSON, YOU KNOW. 1525 01:23:52,266 --> 01:23:54,467 BUT THE, UM-- I THINK WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO DO IS 1526 01:23:54,467 --> 01:23:56,467 WE DON'T WANT TO GIVE THEM ANY FUEL FOR THAT. 1527 01:23:56,467 --> 01:23:59,166 - THAT'S NUTS. - I THINK THEY'RE SORT OF AFRAID IF THEY DRESS CONSERVATIVE 1528 01:23:59,166 --> 01:24:01,567 THEY'RE GOING TO BE ON THE OTHER SIDE, "THE ENEMY SIDE." 1529 01:24:01,567 --> 01:24:03,967 LIKE THEY HAVE TO DRESS LIKE DAMIEN OR SOMETHING 1530 01:24:03,967 --> 01:24:06,600 IF THEY WANT TO BE ON HIS SIDE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS. 1531 01:24:06,600 --> 01:24:08,834 WELL, LOOK HOW HE DRESSES NOW IN COURT, YOU KNOW. 1532 01:24:08,834 --> 01:24:11,333 - HE WEARS ALL WHITE IN PRISON. - Bakken: YEAH. 1533 01:24:11,333 --> 01:24:14,900 AND WHEN HE GOES TO COURT HE'S WEARING, YOU KNOW, LIKE, NICE CLOTHES. 1534 01:24:14,900 --> 01:24:16,500 I MEAN HE'S GROWN UP A LOT. 1535 01:24:16,500 --> 01:24:18,967 Bakken: A LOT OF PEOPLE ONLY KNOW DAMIEN FROM THE MOVIE, 1536 01:24:18,967 --> 01:24:21,300 SO THEY SEE THESE LITTLE BITS OF DAMIEN IN THE MOVIE 1537 01:24:21,300 --> 01:24:23,600 AND THAT'S WHAT THEY THINK THEY'RE REACTING TO. 1538 01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:26,300 BUT THEY DON'T REALIZE THAT'S, LIKE, FIVE YEARS AGO. 1539 01:24:29,934 --> 01:24:31,867 Woman: I WANT TO REMIND YOU THIS IS A FUNDRAISER 1540 01:24:31,867 --> 01:24:34,233 SO I WANT YOU TO GIVE FROM YOUR HEART BECAUSE THESE YOUNG MEN 1541 01:24:34,233 --> 01:24:36,967 ARE KIND OF COUNTING ON US. 1542 01:24:38,433 --> 01:24:40,533 AND JUST FOR THE RECORD, ANYONE-- IF YOU KNOW SOMEONE 1543 01:24:40,533 --> 01:24:42,400 THAT HASN'T BEEN ABLE TO MAKE IT HERE TODAY, 1544 01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:44,233 OR FOR WHATEVER REASON LEFT EARLY, 1545 01:24:44,233 --> 01:24:47,000 IF YOU'LL REMIND THEM THIS CAULDRON'S GOING TO BE AVAILABLE 1546 01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:51,166 FOR THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS TO CONTINUE TO ADD TO. 1547 01:24:51,166 --> 01:24:53,433 I'M PUTTIN' MONEY IN HERE BECAUSE I WANT DAMIEN 1548 01:24:53,433 --> 01:24:56,400 TO BE ABLE TO GO TO COLLEGE OUTSIDE OF PRISON. 1549 01:24:56,400 --> 01:24:58,333 I WANT HIM TO GO TO A REAL SCHOOL. 1550 01:24:58,333 --> 01:25:00,934 - Woman: REALLY SOON. - ( applause ) 1551 01:25:00,934 --> 01:25:03,533 Woman: AND REMEMBER TOO THAT HE HAD THE COURAGE TO SAY 1552 01:25:03,533 --> 01:25:05,166 HE WAS WICCAN IN ADVERSITY 1553 01:25:05,166 --> 01:25:08,033 WHEN HE KNEW THAT IT WOULD COST HIM A LOT. 1554 01:25:08,033 --> 01:25:10,300 ALL OF US WHO ARE HERE ARE HERE BECAUSE 1555 01:25:10,300 --> 01:25:13,000 WE ENJOY KNOWING 1556 01:25:13,000 --> 01:25:14,867 THAT THERE IS RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, 1557 01:25:14,867 --> 01:25:17,967 HOPEFULLY SOMEWHERE, THAT WE ALL RESPECT EACH OTHER 1558 01:25:17,967 --> 01:25:21,100 FOR OUR BELIEFS, FOR OUR LOVES, FOR EVERYTHING THAT WE HAVE. 1559 01:25:21,100 --> 01:25:23,467 THEY WROTE IT OFF AS SOMETHING, "WE DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT. 1560 01:25:23,467 --> 01:25:25,033 IT'S GOT TO BE THE WORK OF THE DEVIL." 1561 01:25:25,033 --> 01:25:26,934 WELL, YOU KNOW, WICCA-- WICCANS 1562 01:25:26,934 --> 01:25:29,367 DON'T BELIEVE IN THE DEVIL, OKAY? 1563 01:25:29,367 --> 01:25:32,567 THE DEVIL IS A CHRISTIAN DEITY. 1564 01:25:32,567 --> 01:25:36,200 THEY USE THE DEVIL-- OR THEY BELIEVE THAT THE DEVIL 1565 01:25:36,200 --> 01:25:38,500 IS SOMETHING THAT CAUSES THEM TO DO EVIL THINGS. 1566 01:25:38,500 --> 01:25:41,934 AND IN THE WICCAN READ, IN THE WICCAN TRADITION, THOSE FOLKS BELIEVE 1567 01:25:41,934 --> 01:25:45,734 THAT YOU ARE 100% RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS. 1568 01:25:45,734 --> 01:25:48,433 AND THEY BELIEVE IN THE LAW OF THREE-- 1569 01:25:48,433 --> 01:25:51,934 - ( applause ) - --WHATEVER YOU DO COMES BACK ON YOU THREEFOLD. 1570 01:25:51,934 --> 01:25:55,100 IF YOU PUT OUT GOOD ENERGY, THAT'S COMING BACK TO YOU THREEFOLD. 1571 01:25:55,100 --> 01:25:57,333 IF YOU PUT OUT NEGATIVE ENERGY AND DARK ENERGY, 1572 01:25:57,333 --> 01:25:59,133 THAT'S COMING BACK ON YOU THREEFOLD. 1573 01:25:59,133 --> 01:26:01,834 THAT IS WHAT THE WICCAN MEANS. 1574 01:26:01,834 --> 01:26:03,333 I KNOW THAT, AS A WICCAN 1575 01:26:03,333 --> 01:26:05,400 THAT EVERY RELIGION IS IMPORTANT TO ME 1576 01:26:05,400 --> 01:26:07,400 AND IF I FELT LIKE-- EVEN CHRISTIANS-- 1577 01:26:07,400 --> 01:26:09,600 THAT THEY WERE HAVING THEIR RIGHT TO BE REL-- 1578 01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:12,700 YOU KNOW THEY COULDN'T PRACTICE IN THEIR WAY, I WOULD DEFEND THAT. 1579 01:26:12,700 --> 01:26:14,400 IT'S NOT ABOUT JUST ME BEING WICCAN, 1580 01:26:14,400 --> 01:26:17,266 THIS IS ABOUT HOW DID THIS AFFECT THREE LITTLE BOYS 1581 01:26:17,266 --> 01:26:20,400 WHOSE MURDERERS, I PERSONALLY BELIEVE, WENT UNFOUNDED. 1582 01:26:20,400 --> 01:26:22,400 AND THERE'S THREE YOUNG MEN WHO ARE IN JAIL 1583 01:26:22,400 --> 01:26:24,533 AND ONE OF THEM'S THERE AND HE'S ON DEATH ROW 1584 01:26:24,533 --> 01:26:26,300 JUST BECAUSE HE SAID "I'M WICCAN." 1585 01:26:26,300 --> 01:26:29,734 Val Price: CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO THE LADIES AND GENTLEMEN OF THE JURY 1586 01:26:29,734 --> 01:26:32,700 WHAT-- SOME PRINCIPLES ABOUT THE WICCA RELIGION? 1587 01:26:32,700 --> 01:26:36,600 UM, IT ACKNOWLEDGES A GODDESS 1588 01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:38,300 IN A HIGHER REGARD AS A GOD 1589 01:26:38,300 --> 01:26:40,066 BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE ALWAYS SAID 1590 01:26:40,066 --> 01:26:44,533 "WE'RE ALL GOD'S CHILDREN" AND MEN CANNOT HAVE CHILDREN. 1591 01:26:44,533 --> 01:26:47,900 UM, IT'S BASICALLY LIKE 1592 01:26:47,900 --> 01:26:50,767 A CLOSE INVOLVEMENT WITH NATURE. 1593 01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:55,100 ( keyboard clacking ) 1594 01:26:56,467 --> 01:26:58,200 Sauls: OKAY, HERE'S THE QUESTION: 1595 01:26:58,200 --> 01:27:02,834 "I WAS WONDERING WHAT MADE YOU GO CHANGE YOUR RELIGION BACK TO CATHOLIC?" 1596 01:27:02,834 --> 01:27:05,800 I haven't changed my religion to anything. 1597 01:27:05,800 --> 01:27:07,033 At this point in time 1598 01:27:07,033 --> 01:27:08,900 I don't really make any distinctions 1599 01:27:08,900 --> 01:27:10,567 between religions anymore. 1600 01:27:10,567 --> 01:27:13,233 AND THEY SAY THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE IN PRISON FIND GOD. 1601 01:27:13,233 --> 01:27:15,533 Well, I never knew God was lost. 1602 01:27:15,533 --> 01:27:19,166 And, um, I just-- 1603 01:27:19,166 --> 01:27:23,166 I don't like to put a label over myself anymore. 1604 01:27:23,166 --> 01:27:24,633 DID YOU EVER? 1605 01:27:24,633 --> 01:27:27,266 Well, at one time I didn't really mind 1606 01:27:27,266 --> 01:27:30,000 because I thought maybe there was some sort of 1607 01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:32,433 distinction between religions. 1608 01:27:32,433 --> 01:27:35,233 But then I realized that there's not. 1609 01:27:35,233 --> 01:27:37,867 I think all religions basically teach-- 1610 01:27:37,867 --> 01:27:40,166 Recording: Your time limit is about to be exceeded. 1611 01:27:40,166 --> 01:27:42,834 Your call will be terminated in 30 seconds. 1612 01:27:42,834 --> 01:27:45,633 I think all religions basically teach the same message 1613 01:27:46,767 --> 01:27:51,133 and I think it's the people who-- 1614 01:27:52,567 --> 01:27:56,166 who create all these dogmas and strict rules 1615 01:27:56,166 --> 01:27:59,400 and try to enforce this belief 1616 01:27:59,400 --> 01:28:01,333 that if you don't believe the way they do, 1617 01:28:01,333 --> 01:28:04,533 that you're going to suffer. 1618 01:28:05,967 --> 01:28:08,233 HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN THIS FACE? 1619 01:28:08,233 --> 01:28:10,500 I HOPE NOT. 1620 01:28:10,500 --> 01:28:12,633 'CAUSE IT'S GOING TO COME VISIT YOU 1621 01:28:12,633 --> 01:28:14,900 WHEN YOU DIE AND LOOK UP FROM HELL. 1622 01:28:14,900 --> 01:28:18,467 IT'LL BE JUST LIKE LAZARUS AND THE RICH MAN. 1623 01:28:18,467 --> 01:28:20,934 LAZARUS AT ABRAHAM'S BOSOM, 1624 01:28:20,934 --> 01:28:23,667 THE RICH MAN LOOKS UP FROM HELL. 1625 01:28:23,667 --> 01:28:24,967 WHAT'S HE DO? 1626 01:28:24,967 --> 01:28:27,100 BEG FOR A DROP OF WATER. 1627 01:28:27,100 --> 01:28:29,066 NONE WAS GIVEN. 1628 01:28:29,066 --> 01:28:30,467 YOU'LL BEG 1629 01:28:30,467 --> 01:28:34,367 'CAUSE MY BABY SHALL PUT HIS FOOT ACROSS YOUR NECK. 1630 01:28:34,367 --> 01:28:36,100 HOW DO I KNOW THAT? 1631 01:28:36,100 --> 01:28:39,867 WELL, IT'S AN EASY SONG-- "THE BIBLE TELLS ME SO." 1632 01:28:41,834 --> 01:28:45,200 AND THERE'S SO MUCH IN HERE THAT'S IN STORE FOR YOU. 1633 01:28:45,200 --> 01:28:49,066 IF YOU DON'T HAVE ONE, RUSH OUT TO YOUR NEAREST BOOKSTORE 1634 01:28:49,066 --> 01:28:51,734 AND GET ONE, YOU LOWLIFE. 1635 01:28:51,734 --> 01:28:54,767 HAVE THE GIDEONS MAIL YOU ONE. 1636 01:28:54,767 --> 01:28:58,500 READ IT, LIVE IT, BELIEVE IT. 1637 01:28:58,500 --> 01:29:00,500 IT IS YOUR DESTINY. 1638 01:29:00,500 --> 01:29:03,200 HELL AWAITS YOU. 1639 01:29:05,033 --> 01:29:08,533 - Man: WHO'S GOING TO TALK? - BURK'S GONNA TALK HERE. 1640 01:29:08,533 --> 01:29:10,934 OKAY, BURK, TELL 'EM WHAT IT IS. 1641 01:29:10,934 --> 01:29:13,500 - WE GOT EVERYBODY IN HERE? - WHO AM I TELLING? 1642 01:29:13,500 --> 01:29:15,767 WE HAVE MOST OF THE PEOPLE HERE. 1643 01:29:15,767 --> 01:29:18,367 WELL, THIS-- SHOULD I JUST START TALKING? 1644 01:29:18,367 --> 01:29:19,834 YEAH, GO AHEAD. 1645 01:29:19,834 --> 01:29:22,700 OKAY, THIS IS A-- THIS IS A COLLECTION OF POSTCARDS 1646 01:29:22,700 --> 01:29:25,934 THAT WE'VE RECEIVED FROM PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD 1647 01:29:25,934 --> 01:29:28,133 IN SUPPORT OF THIS CAUSE. 1648 01:29:28,133 --> 01:29:30,400 THEY'VE ALL WRITTEN "FREE THE WEST MEMPHIS THREE" 1649 01:29:30,400 --> 01:29:32,834 ALL OVER THESE POSTCARDS. 1650 01:29:32,834 --> 01:29:35,433 THE GOAL IS ACTUALLY TO DELIVER THIS TO THE GOVERNOR, 1651 01:29:35,433 --> 01:29:37,967 TO SHOW THE GOVERNOR THE SUPPORT THAT THESE THREE HAVE. 1652 01:29:37,967 --> 01:29:40,967 IT'S MORE LIKE A-- IT'S KIND OF WORKING AS A PETITION 1653 01:29:40,967 --> 01:29:42,867 MORE THAN IT IS ANYTHING ELSE. 1654 01:29:42,867 --> 01:29:46,100 IT'S A WAY FOR PEOPLE TO EXPRESS THEIR CONCERNS ABOUT THIS. 1655 01:29:46,100 --> 01:29:49,667 - OKAY. THANKS A LOT. - THANK YOU. 1656 01:29:49,667 --> 01:29:53,900 Announcer: You're watching KATV Channel 7, the spirit of Arkansas. 1657 01:29:53,900 --> 01:29:56,433 This is Channel 7 News at 6:00. 1658 01:29:56,433 --> 01:30:00,000 Anchorwoman: Did defense attorneys sabotage Damien Echols' case 1659 01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:02,500 by sitting on potentially explosive evidence? 1660 01:30:02,500 --> 01:30:04,633 His new attorneys think so. 1661 01:30:04,633 --> 01:30:08,433 Edward Mallett says the men who represented Echols in his first trial 1662 01:30:08,433 --> 01:30:12,567 not only botched the case by selling the story to HBO, 1663 01:30:12,567 --> 01:30:15,467 but they failed to investigate obvious leads. 1664 01:30:15,467 --> 01:30:18,133 Mallett also claims that he has new evidence 1665 01:30:18,133 --> 01:30:20,600 of a human bite mark on one of the victims. 1666 01:30:20,600 --> 01:30:22,834 Judge David Burnett granted his motion 1667 01:30:22,834 --> 01:30:26,367 to get bite-mark impressions from Damien's two codefendants. 1668 01:30:26,367 --> 01:30:28,867 Under cross-examination, Val Price, 1669 01:30:28,867 --> 01:30:30,400 Echols' previous attorney, 1670 01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:33,100 testified that he did his best to represent Echols. 1671 01:30:33,100 --> 01:30:36,967 But Brent Turvey, a forensic scientist, disagrees. 1672 01:30:36,967 --> 01:30:39,400 He says Price sat on critical evidence, 1673 01:30:39,400 --> 01:30:42,533 namely bite marks he's found on the victims' bodies. 1674 01:30:42,533 --> 01:30:46,734 Bakken: THAT KIND OF STUFF IS LIKE ABSOLUTE PROOF OF WHO DID THIS. 1675 01:30:46,734 --> 01:30:49,300 I MEAN IF THEY CAN GET BITE IMPRESSIONS, IT'S LIKE-- 1676 01:30:49,300 --> 01:30:51,367 - Man: IT'S LIKE A FINGERPRINT. - IT'S DONE. 1677 01:30:51,367 --> 01:30:53,233 THEY CAN IDENTIFY WHO IT IS, PERIOD. 1678 01:30:53,233 --> 01:30:55,967 - OR WE CAN AT LEAST EXCLUDE THESE THREE BOYS... - Bakken: YEAH. 1679 01:30:55,967 --> 01:30:58,367 ...WHO THAT WE HAVE NO QUESTION THAT THEY'RE INNOCENT. 1680 01:30:58,367 --> 01:31:00,667 SO THAT'S ONE WAY OF TRYING TO PROVE THAT. 1681 01:31:00,667 --> 01:31:04,567 Byers: THE THREE THEY GOT ARE THE THREE THAT DID IT. 1682 01:31:04,567 --> 01:31:06,667 YOU ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR OPINION, 1683 01:31:06,667 --> 01:31:08,300 BUT TO SPREAD YOUR PROPAGANDA 1684 01:31:08,300 --> 01:31:11,133 THAT YOU BELIEVE THEY ARE INNOCENT, I THINK IS CRAP. 1685 01:31:11,133 --> 01:31:14,333 - BITE MARKS AREN'T PROPAGANDA. THAT'S SOLID 100% EVIDENCE. - IT'S FACT. 1686 01:31:14,333 --> 01:31:18,300 - IT HASN'T BEEN PROVEN THEY'RE BITE MARKS YET THOUGH. - IT HAS BEEN. 1687 01:31:18,300 --> 01:31:21,000 AND YOU'RE VERY CONVINCED 100% THEY'RE GUILTY, RIGHT? 1688 01:31:21,000 --> 01:31:24,300 - NO DOUBT. - AND YOU'RE 100% CONVINCED OF YOUR OWN INNOCENCE. 1689 01:31:24,300 --> 01:31:26,667 - SO WHY DON'T YOU-- - NO DOUBT IN MY MIND ABOUT IT. 1690 01:31:26,667 --> 01:31:29,700 WHY DON'T YOU GIVE YOUR BITE IMPRESSIONS TO THE DEFENSE? 1691 01:31:29,700 --> 01:31:31,667 DO YOU THINK THAT I'M GUILTY, 1692 01:31:31,667 --> 01:31:33,667 THAT I HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH MURDERING MY SON? 1693 01:31:33,667 --> 01:31:35,166 WE'RE NOT SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT THAT. 1694 01:31:35,166 --> 01:31:36,834 I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT. 1695 01:31:36,834 --> 01:31:38,500 I WANT TO KNOW THAT YOU DIDN'T, AND THAT WOULD BE 1696 01:31:38,500 --> 01:31:41,100 - BY GIVING YOUR BITE IMPRESSION. - RULE YOURSELF OUT FOR IT. 1697 01:31:41,100 --> 01:31:43,200 I'VE ALREADY BEEN EXONERATED. WHAT ELSE DO I HAVE TO DO? 1698 01:31:43,200 --> 01:31:44,867 Sauls: THE PUBLIC'S BEEN KIND OF SUSPICIOUS OF YOU. 1699 01:31:44,867 --> 01:31:46,934 Bakken: WHAT HAPPENED TO MELISSA? 1700 01:31:46,934 --> 01:31:48,667 I BELIEVE SHE DIED FROM A BROKEN HEART. 1701 01:31:48,667 --> 01:31:50,667 Bakken: BUT YOU WERE THERE, SO YOU SAW SOMETHING. 1702 01:31:50,667 --> 01:31:54,600 I WAS ASLEEP BESIDE HER AND WOKE UP AND FOUND HER PASSED AWAY BESIDE ME. 1703 01:31:54,600 --> 01:31:58,033 THERE WERE NO BRUISES, ABRASIONS, ANYTHING LIKE THAT 1704 01:31:58,033 --> 01:31:59,834 OF ANY FOUL PLAY WHATSOEVER. 1705 01:31:59,834 --> 01:32:01,800 I'VE BEEN TOTALLY EXONERATED. 1706 01:32:01,800 --> 01:32:04,700 ALL CHARGES OR SUSPICION OF ANYTHING DROPPED. 1707 01:32:04,700 --> 01:32:07,000 Bakken: WELL, I DO KNOW THERE WAS A TOXICOLOGY REPORT 1708 01:32:07,000 --> 01:32:10,233 AND THEY TALKED ABOUT ACTUALLY QUITE A LOT OF DRUGS THAT WERE IN HER SYSTEM. 1709 01:32:10,233 --> 01:32:13,467 YES, A LOT OF PRESCRIPTION DRUGS THAT SHE WAS TAKING, THEY SURE DID. 1710 01:32:13,467 --> 01:32:15,734 ALSO SOME PRESCRIPTION DRUGS SHE WASN'T TAKING. 1711 01:32:15,734 --> 01:32:18,600 SHE TOOK LIKE SEVEN OR EIGHT DIFFERENT TYPES OF MEDICATION 1712 01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:21,867 FOR BEING BIPOLAR, MANIC DEPRESSIVE, POST-TRAUMATIC SYNDROME. 1713 01:32:21,867 --> 01:32:23,867 AND AS FAR AS THE OTHER MEDICATION, 1714 01:32:23,867 --> 01:32:26,333 I'M AS PUZZLED ABOUT IT AS ANYONE. 1715 01:32:26,333 --> 01:32:29,000 I READ IN THE NEWSPAPER-- IT WAS ACTUALLY "THE ARKANSAS TIMES"-- 1716 01:32:29,000 --> 01:32:33,166 - YES. - MARA LEVERITT SAID THAT THERE WERE SIGNS SHE WAS SUFFOCATED. 1717 01:32:33,166 --> 01:32:36,266 THERE WERE NO SIGNS OF SUFFOCATION OR STRUGGLE. 1718 01:32:36,266 --> 01:32:38,400 SHE WAS LAYING RIGHT THERE ON THE BED 1719 01:32:38,400 --> 01:32:41,433 WHEN THE PARAMEDICS AND ALL CAME IN. 1720 01:32:41,433 --> 01:32:43,934 IF SOMEONE PUBLISHED SOMETHING IN THE NEWSPAPER ABOUT ME 1721 01:32:43,934 --> 01:32:46,700 THAT WAS SUSPICIOUS LIKE THAT, THAT POINTED THE FINGER AT ME 1722 01:32:46,700 --> 01:32:48,500 AND SAID I WAS THIS AND SAID I WAS THAT, 1723 01:32:48,500 --> 01:32:51,600 I'D WANT TO PROVE TO SOMEBODY 1724 01:32:51,600 --> 01:32:53,233 THAT I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. 1725 01:32:53,233 --> 01:32:55,533 OKAY, THEN TELL ME WHAT I HAVE NOT DONE 1726 01:32:55,533 --> 01:32:58,767 TO PROVE THAT I HAVE NOT BEEN INVOLVED IN ANY OF IT. 1727 01:32:58,767 --> 01:33:02,767 I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH A POLYGRAPH, SODIUM PENTOTHAL, 1728 01:33:02,767 --> 01:33:06,133 BEING HYPNOTIZED, BITE MARKS OR ANYTHING ELSE, 1729 01:33:06,133 --> 01:33:09,400 WHICH I'VE SUBMITTED TO EVERY TEST THEY'VE ASKED, 1730 01:33:09,400 --> 01:33:12,934 EVERY QUESTION THEY HAVE ASKED BECAUSE I KNOW MY INNOCENCE. 1731 01:33:12,934 --> 01:33:15,000 THEY DIDN'T HAVE BITE-MARK IMPRESSIONS. 1732 01:33:15,000 --> 01:33:17,266 DID THEY TAKE YOUR BITE-MARK IMPRESSIONS? 1733 01:33:17,266 --> 01:33:19,834 Bakken: I MEAN IF YOU'RE THAT CONVINCED-- 1734 01:33:21,300 --> 01:33:24,200 DENTAL RECORDS. 1735 01:33:24,200 --> 01:33:27,133 YOU KNOW, HOW COULD YOU GIVE YOUR BITE IMPRESSIONS 1736 01:33:27,133 --> 01:33:28,800 IF YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR TEETH? 1737 01:33:28,800 --> 01:33:31,300 MAYBE THAT'S WHY YOU'RE NOT SO RELUCTANT TO DO IT. 1738 01:33:31,300 --> 01:33:34,100 WELL, WHAT IF I TOLD YOU THAT THE TEETH THAT I HAD BEFORE 1739 01:33:34,100 --> 01:33:37,300 THEY WERE PULLED OR THE TEETH THAT I HAD DURING IT, 1740 01:33:37,300 --> 01:33:40,533 I KNOW THE ORAL SURGEONS AND ALL THAT DID THE WORK 1741 01:33:40,533 --> 01:33:42,700 AND I WOULD BE GLAD TO SIGN A RELEASE 1742 01:33:42,700 --> 01:33:46,266 - FOR THEM TO SEND MY X-RAYS. - Sauls: WILL YOU DO THAT? 1743 01:33:46,266 --> 01:33:48,667 IF NEED BE. LIKE I SAID, I'VE COOPERATED WITH THE POLICE. 1744 01:33:48,667 --> 01:33:50,633 WOULD YOU DO THAT FOR US AND SEND IT TO DAN STIDHAM? 1745 01:33:50,633 --> 01:33:52,100 I WON'T DO A DAMN THING FOR YOU. 1746 01:33:52,100 --> 01:33:54,400 - DO IT FOR DAN STIDHAM. - Bakken: DO IT FOR YOUR KID. 1747 01:33:54,400 --> 01:33:56,367 Sauls: DO IT-- JUST DO IT TO PROVE US WRONG. 1748 01:33:56,367 --> 01:33:58,700 I DON'T HAVE TO PROVE ONE DAMN THING TO YOU. 1749 01:33:58,700 --> 01:34:00,867 IF IT TURNS OUT THAT WE'RE WRONG, 1750 01:34:00,867 --> 01:34:03,567 WE'LL ADMIT IT, I PROMISE YOU. 1751 01:34:03,567 --> 01:34:06,834 BEND OVER AND PUT YOUR HEAD BETWEEN YOUR LEGS AND KISS YOUR ASS GOODBYE, 1752 01:34:06,834 --> 01:34:09,100 'CAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO BE WRONG. 1753 01:34:09,100 --> 01:34:11,800 I THINK YOU ALL ARE FIGHTING A LOST CAUSE. 1754 01:34:11,800 --> 01:34:14,567 WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GET TO THE TRUTH. 1755 01:34:16,700 --> 01:34:19,600 Byers: AS A YOUNG BOY AT THE AGE OF 13, 1756 01:34:19,600 --> 01:34:21,700 I STARTED DOWN MANY OF THE WRONG ROADS 1757 01:34:21,700 --> 01:34:23,834 THAT A LOT OF TEENAGERS WILL GO DOWN. 1758 01:34:23,834 --> 01:34:25,600 I REMEMBER THE FIRST DOLLAR I STOLE 1759 01:34:25,600 --> 01:34:27,934 WAS OUT OF MY MAMA'S PURSE. 1760 01:34:27,934 --> 01:34:31,667 THE FIRST PEOPLE I STOLE FROM WERE MY PARENTS. 1761 01:34:31,667 --> 01:34:35,500 BOY, IT JUST WENT DOWN A ROUGH AND RUGGED ROAD FROM THERE. 1762 01:34:35,500 --> 01:34:39,700 I CAN REMEMBER QUITE VIVIDLY THE DAY THAT I CAME TO 1763 01:34:39,700 --> 01:34:41,367 FROM A COMATOSE STATE. 1764 01:34:41,367 --> 01:34:43,734 I HAD OVERDOSED IN MY PARENTS' HOME. 1765 01:34:43,734 --> 01:34:45,266 THE NEXT DAY, THEY WERE ON THE PHONE 1766 01:34:45,266 --> 01:34:48,000 WITH MY BROTHER-IN-LAW AND SISTER DOWN IN JACKSON, MISSISSIPPI. 1767 01:34:48,000 --> 01:34:50,900 SAID, "WILL YOU ALL TAKE HIM? HE'S OUT OF CONTROL. 1768 01:34:50,900 --> 01:34:53,467 WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING WITH HIM." 1769 01:34:53,467 --> 01:34:56,600 I SAW MY BROTHER-IN-LAW, A BIG TALL RED-HEADED FELLER 1770 01:34:56,600 --> 01:34:59,967 AND I SAID, "YOU DON'T KNOW ALL THE WRONGS I'VE DONE." 1771 01:34:59,967 --> 01:35:02,133 HE SAID, "WELL, LET ME SHOW YOU OVER HERE." 1772 01:35:02,133 --> 01:35:04,500 HE EXPLAINED TO ME ABOUT THE APOSTLE PAUL. 1773 01:35:04,500 --> 01:35:07,233 HE SAID, "DON'T GET UP THERE AND THINK THAT YOU'RE THE WORST THAT'S BEEN." 1774 01:35:07,233 --> 01:35:09,767 HE SAID, "THE APOSTLE PAUL'S ALREADY TOOK THAT PRIVILEGE 1775 01:35:09,767 --> 01:35:12,367 AND HE SAYS I AM THE CHIEF SINNER." 1776 01:35:12,367 --> 01:35:16,233 SO I THOUGHT, "WELL, IF THE LORD COULD SAVE THE APOSTLE PAUL 1777 01:35:16,233 --> 01:35:19,400 AND LOOK BEYOND HIS SINS, HE COULD SAVE ME TOO." 1778 01:35:19,400 --> 01:35:22,433 WHEN THIS LAST TRAGEDY CAME INTO OUR LIFE, 1779 01:35:22,433 --> 01:35:25,600 I STOOD BY MY SON'S CASKET 1780 01:35:25,600 --> 01:35:30,300 AND I SAID, "OH GOD, HELP ME. 1781 01:35:30,300 --> 01:35:32,667 LORD, I'M LOOKING TO YOU. 1782 01:35:32,667 --> 01:35:37,166 I WANT TO BE THE DAD THAT STANDS IN THE GAP, 1783 01:35:37,166 --> 01:35:39,066 THAT WILL STAND FOR YOU 1784 01:35:39,066 --> 01:35:42,767 REGARDLESS TO WHAT THE WORLD SAYS. 1785 01:35:42,767 --> 01:35:44,767 I DON'T CARE. 1786 01:35:44,767 --> 01:35:47,767 LORD, I CAN'T DO THIS ON MY OWN. 1787 01:35:47,767 --> 01:35:50,767 I NEED YOU." 1788 01:35:50,767 --> 01:35:53,533 AND YOU KNOW THERE WAS A PEACE 1789 01:35:53,533 --> 01:35:56,633 THAT SURPASSED ALL UNDERSTANDING 1790 01:35:56,633 --> 01:35:59,400 THAT CAME UPON ME IN THAT FUNERAL HOME. 1791 01:35:59,400 --> 01:36:02,233 AND I THOUGHT, "THANK GOD FOR THAT." 1792 01:36:02,233 --> 01:36:05,233 THANK THE LORD, FOR AFTER 20-SOMETHING YEARS 1793 01:36:05,233 --> 01:36:07,233 OF LIVING LIKE A SAVAGE ON THIS EARTH, 1794 01:36:07,233 --> 01:36:10,333 THAT HE KNOCKED AT MY HEART'S DOOR AND SPOKE TO ME. 1795 01:36:10,333 --> 01:36:12,467 AND I'M SO GLAD I INVITED HIM IN. 1796 01:36:12,467 --> 01:36:15,934 Turvey: I'D WANT TO KNOW WHO IN THE COMMUNITY 1797 01:36:15,934 --> 01:36:19,533 HAD ACCESS TO THOSE VICTIMS, WHO WOULD BE TRUSTED WITH THOSE KIDS. 1798 01:36:19,533 --> 01:36:22,300 I'D WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE RELATIONSHIPS WERE IN THAT COMMUNITY, 1799 01:36:22,300 --> 01:36:26,200 BECAUSE WHO WAS KILLED TELLS YOU WHY THEY WERE KILLED. 1800 01:36:26,200 --> 01:36:28,433 LOOK AT HOW CLEAR OF A LINE WE'RE DRAWING 1801 01:36:28,433 --> 01:36:33,066 BETWEEN THE HOMICIDE AND THE BEHAVIOR OF CHRIS-- OF CHRIS BYERS. 1802 01:36:33,066 --> 01:36:37,300 MY FEELING IS THAT THIS KID WAS BEING ABUSED. 1803 01:36:37,300 --> 01:36:38,934 CHRIS BYERS WAS SETTING FIRES. 1804 01:36:38,934 --> 01:36:41,100 HE WAS PLAYING WITH HIS OWN EXCREMENT. 1805 01:36:41,100 --> 01:36:43,667 HE WAS BEATING UP OTHER KIDS, PICKING FIGHTS. 1806 01:36:43,667 --> 01:36:45,433 HE WAS, UH-- HE WAS ON RITALIN-- 1807 01:36:45,433 --> 01:36:48,000 THE DOCTOR WAS SAYING HE WAS GOING TO HOSPITALIZE HIM. 1808 01:36:48,000 --> 01:36:50,100 HE WAS A KID WHO HAD BEHAVIORAL PROBLEMS 1809 01:36:50,100 --> 01:36:53,667 AND PROBLEMS OF BEING DEFIANT AND VIOLENT AND AGGRESSIVE AND IMPULSIVE 1810 01:36:53,667 --> 01:36:57,700 FOR AT LEAST THREE YEARS THAT THIS NEUROLOGIST HAD BEEN SEEING HIM. 1811 01:36:57,700 --> 01:37:00,500 AND THIS DOCTOR IN HIS REPORT STATES, 1812 01:37:00,500 --> 01:37:03,600 I'M GIVING THIS KID-- I'VE BEEN PRESCRIBING HIM RITALIN 1813 01:37:03,600 --> 01:37:06,600 FOR THE PAST THREE YEARS, NOTHING'S COME OF IT. 1814 01:37:06,600 --> 01:37:09,066 NOT THAT HE-- I CAN'T UNDER-- HE EVEN SAYS, 1815 01:37:09,066 --> 01:37:11,266 "IT DOES NOT-- IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE TO ME. 1816 01:37:11,266 --> 01:37:15,000 I'M AT A LOSS TO EXPLAIN WHY HIS BEHAVIOR HAS NOT ABATED." 1817 01:37:15,000 --> 01:37:17,533 'CAUSE WHAT RITALIN IS IT'S A KIDDIE DEPRESSANT. 1818 01:37:17,533 --> 01:37:20,233 WHAT IT DOES IS IT TAKES KIDS AND MAKES THEM-- 1819 01:37:20,233 --> 01:37:24,300 IT MAKES THEM MORE DOCILE. 1820 01:37:24,300 --> 01:37:27,700 BUT RITALIN IS A FUNNY DRUG. AND IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING-- 1821 01:37:27,700 --> 01:37:30,900 AND YOU'LL HAVE TO TALK TO SOMEBODY WHO REALLY KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT-- 1822 01:37:30,900 --> 01:37:35,166 BUT IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT IN ADULTS, RITALIN IS LIKE SPEED. 1823 01:37:35,166 --> 01:37:37,867 IT HAS THE EXACT OPPOSITE EFFECT. 1824 01:37:37,867 --> 01:37:41,100 SO YOU THINK THAT MAYBE THE KID WASN'T GETTING THE PRESCRIPTION-- 1825 01:37:41,100 --> 01:37:42,800 IF HE WAS GETTING THE PRESCRIPTION, 1826 01:37:42,800 --> 01:37:45,266 HE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN EXHIBITING THOSE BEHAVIORS. 1827 01:37:45,266 --> 01:37:47,467 AND HE WAS EXHIBITING THOSE BEHAVIORS. 1828 01:37:47,467 --> 01:37:49,367 SO MY ONLY THOUGHT WOULD BE THAT 1829 01:37:49,367 --> 01:37:51,767 HE WAS NOT GETTING HIS PRESCRIPTION. 1830 01:37:53,066 --> 01:37:56,700 THEY HAD A LITTLE BOOK THEY WROTE IN AT SCHOOL. 1831 01:37:56,700 --> 01:37:58,834 I STILL CAN'T GO THROUGH A LOT OF HIS THINGS. 1832 01:37:58,834 --> 01:38:00,266 IT'S STILL TOO PAINFUL. 1833 01:38:00,266 --> 01:38:03,166 - Byers: IT'S HIS JOURNAL. - IT'S HIS JOURNAL. 1834 01:38:03,166 --> 01:38:06,567 AND IT WAS ON A WEDNESDAY. 1835 01:38:06,567 --> 01:38:10,066 AND HE HAD WRITTEN NOTHING ON THE PAGE EXCEPT JUST 1836 01:38:10,066 --> 01:38:12,867 "I LOVE MY MOMMY." 1837 01:38:14,834 --> 01:38:19,133 AND THAT'S ALL HE'D WRITTEN ON THE PAGE. 1838 01:38:19,133 --> 01:38:23,500 AND I KNOW THAT IF HE COULD COME TO ME, 1839 01:38:23,500 --> 01:38:27,000 HE WOULD SAY, "MOMMY, IT'S OKAY," 1840 01:38:27,000 --> 01:38:29,867 AND "I'M ALL RIGHT 1841 01:38:29,867 --> 01:38:32,667 AND YOU NEED TO BE ALL RIGHT TOO. 1842 01:38:32,667 --> 01:38:37,266 AND I STILL LOVE YOU AND I LOVE DADDY AND I LOVE RYAN. 1843 01:38:37,266 --> 01:38:40,166 NOW I WANT YOU TO PULL YOURSELF TOGETHER, MOMMY, 1844 01:38:40,166 --> 01:38:42,333 AND I WANT YOU TO GO AHEAD AND LIVE 1845 01:38:42,333 --> 01:38:45,600 BECAUSE I'M OKAY NOW. I'M OKAY. 1846 01:38:45,600 --> 01:38:47,600 I'M ALL RIGHT. 1847 01:38:47,600 --> 01:38:51,467 YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ME." 1848 01:38:51,467 --> 01:38:53,533 WHAT WAS YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR WIFE? 1849 01:38:53,533 --> 01:38:55,467 DID Y'ALL GET ALONG PRETTY GOOD? 1850 01:38:55,467 --> 01:38:59,467 AS LONG AS I COULD KEEP HER FROM USING, WE DID. 1851 01:38:59,467 --> 01:39:01,934 I COULD KEEP HER OFF OF IT A COUPLE OF MONTHS 1852 01:39:01,934 --> 01:39:05,233 AND SHE'D GO BACK TO IT. 1853 01:39:05,233 --> 01:39:07,100 THE FIRST REHAB I PUT HER IN 1854 01:39:07,100 --> 01:39:09,834 WAS NINE MONTHS AFTER WE WERE MARRIED. 1855 01:39:09,834 --> 01:39:11,967 AND I HAD A DOCTOR TELL ME THEN 1856 01:39:11,967 --> 01:39:14,300 THAT Y'ALL JUST GO AHEAD AND DIVORCE HER. 1857 01:39:14,300 --> 01:39:17,900 HE SAID, "YOU KNOW, HEROIN JUNKIES, ONE OUT OF--" 1858 01:39:17,900 --> 01:39:21,367 I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE STATISTIC EXACTLY IS, HE SAID, "--EVER STAY CLEAN. 1859 01:39:21,367 --> 01:39:24,133 THIS IS JUST GOING TO CAUSE YOU A LOT OF PAIN AND MISERY." 1860 01:39:24,133 --> 01:39:26,166 - DO YOU USE DRUGS? - NO SIR. 1861 01:39:26,166 --> 01:39:28,734 - HAVE YOU EVER USED DRUGS? - YES SIR. 1862 01:39:28,734 --> 01:39:30,500 WHAT DID-- WHAT? 1863 01:39:30,500 --> 01:39:35,266 MARIJUANA. I'VE TRIED COKE, SOME PILLS. 1864 01:39:35,266 --> 01:39:37,600 - DID YOU EVER HAVE A HABIT? - NO SIR, NEVER BEEN-- 1865 01:39:37,600 --> 01:39:39,367 YOU WERE JUST CASUALLY EXPERIMENTING? 1866 01:39:39,367 --> 01:39:43,400 JUST EXPERIMENTING AS A TEENAGER AND GOING TO COLLEGE. 1867 01:39:43,400 --> 01:39:46,000 - DO YOU HAVE A BRAIN TUMOR? - YES SIR. 1868 01:39:46,000 --> 01:39:49,500 IS IT TROUBLING YOU NOW? HAVE YOU GOT IT UNDER CONTROL? 1869 01:39:49,500 --> 01:39:51,700 WELL, I'M-- I'M UNDER A DOCTOR'S CARE. 1870 01:39:51,700 --> 01:39:54,166 - ARE YOU TAKING MEDICATION? - YES SIR. 1871 01:39:54,166 --> 01:39:56,800 WHAT, WHAT? 1872 01:40:01,333 --> 01:40:03,266 IS IT, UH-- WELL, JUST TELL ME WHAT IT IS, 1873 01:40:03,266 --> 01:40:05,734 TELL ME WHAT IT IS. TELL ME WHAT IT DOES. 1874 01:40:05,734 --> 01:40:09,066 - UH... - IS IT FOR A NERVOUS CONDITION? 1875 01:40:09,066 --> 01:40:10,667 - YES SIR. - OKAY. 1876 01:40:10,667 --> 01:40:15,467 IT HELPS-- IT HELPS ME FOR MY ANXIETY AND PANIC ATTACKS 1877 01:40:15,467 --> 01:40:18,000 AND THE TERRIBLE NIGHTMARES THAT I HAVE 1878 01:40:18,000 --> 01:40:19,767 WHEN I GO TO SLEEP A LOT OF TIMES. 1879 01:40:19,767 --> 01:40:21,433 HAVE YOU TAKEN YOUR DOSAGE TODAY? 1880 01:40:21,433 --> 01:40:24,066 THIS ONE IS IN THE MORNING. 1881 01:40:24,066 --> 01:40:27,300 THIS ONE'S IN THE EVENING. 1882 01:40:27,300 --> 01:40:29,100 THIS ONE'S IN THE EVENING. 1883 01:40:29,100 --> 01:40:31,467 THIS ONE'S THREE TIMES A DAY. 1884 01:40:31,467 --> 01:40:33,700 AND THIS ONE'S THREE TIMES A DAY. 1885 01:40:33,700 --> 01:40:38,467 THE XANAX ON ME WORKS LIKE RITALIN DOES ON CHILDREN. 1886 01:40:38,467 --> 01:40:40,266 WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DON'T TAKE THIS? 1887 01:40:40,266 --> 01:40:42,467 I'LL GET REAL NERVOUS AND JUST LIKE MY-- 1888 01:40:42,467 --> 01:40:45,300 KIND OF PARANOID FEELING. 1889 01:40:45,300 --> 01:40:47,367 I'LL JUST HAVE PANIC ATTACKS. 1890 01:40:47,367 --> 01:40:50,600 YOUR DOCTOR SAID THAT YOU HAD A MULTITUDE OF PSYCHIATRIC PROBLEMS. 1891 01:40:50,600 --> 01:40:52,700 WHAT DOES HE MEAN BY THAT? 1892 01:40:53,967 --> 01:40:56,667 HAVE YOU BEEN DIAGNOSED AS HAVING A PARTICULAR, 1893 01:40:56,667 --> 01:41:01,200 SOME SORT OF PSYCHIATRIC CONDITION THAT HAS A NAME TO IT 1894 01:41:01,200 --> 01:41:03,467 THAT THEY'VE TOLD YOU ABOUT OR ANYTHING? 1895 01:41:03,467 --> 01:41:04,900 JUST FROM WHAT SHE SAID, 1896 01:41:04,900 --> 01:41:08,533 "MANIC-DEPRESSIVE, POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS SYNDROME." 1897 01:41:08,533 --> 01:41:10,066 YOU EVER HALLUCINATE? 1898 01:41:10,066 --> 01:41:11,767 YES SIR, I HAVE. 1899 01:41:11,767 --> 01:41:14,200 I'VE SEEN A BUG ON THE FLOOR OR SOMETHING, 1900 01:41:14,200 --> 01:41:17,367 THAT'S USUALLY WHEN I'M IN A MANIC OR A PANIC ATTACK. 1901 01:41:17,367 --> 01:41:20,333 IT'LL SEEM LIKE I'LL SEE THINGS OUT OF THE CORNER OF MY EYE 1902 01:41:20,333 --> 01:41:22,467 AND IT'S REALLY NOT THERE. 1903 01:41:22,467 --> 01:41:26,033 HAVE YOU EVER BELIEVED THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN INVOLVED SOMEHOW... 1904 01:41:26,033 --> 01:41:28,667 - NO SIR, NO SIR. - ...WITH THOSE LITTLE BOYS DYING? 1905 01:41:28,667 --> 01:41:32,033 YOU'VE NEVER HAD ANY HALLUCINATIONS OR ANYTHING DEALING WITH THAT? 1906 01:41:32,033 --> 01:41:35,433 ONLY NIGHTMARES OF HEARING MY SON CRYING FOR HELP 1907 01:41:35,433 --> 01:41:38,800 AND I COULDN'T HELP HIM 'CAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW WHERE HE WAS. 1908 01:41:38,800 --> 01:41:42,867 MICHAEL MOORE WAS FOUND IN THIS AREA RIGHT HERE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SCREEN. 1909 01:41:42,867 --> 01:41:45,700 STEVE BRANCH WAS FOUND JUST BEHIND 1910 01:41:45,700 --> 01:41:48,200 WHERE THESE TREES ARE IN THE STREAM. 1911 01:41:48,200 --> 01:41:52,934 AND CHRISTOPHER BYERS WAS FOUND JUST BELOW THAT BODY RIGHT HERE. 1912 01:41:52,934 --> 01:41:56,433 - THIS IS EXHIBIT 22, WHICH IS-- - ( woman gasps ) 1913 01:41:56,433 --> 01:41:58,400 --THE BODY OF MICHAEL MOORE, 1914 01:41:58,400 --> 01:42:02,967 AFTER REMOVING HIM FROM THE WATER FROM WHERE HE WAS FOUND. 1915 01:42:04,600 --> 01:42:07,300 THIS IS THE BODY OF STEVE BRANCH. 1916 01:42:07,300 --> 01:42:11,400 STEVE BRANCH IS THE YOUNG MAN THAT HAD THE INJURIES TO HIS FACE. 1917 01:42:11,400 --> 01:42:14,567 Lawyer: WAS IT A PARTICULAR PART OF HIS FACE? 1918 01:42:14,567 --> 01:42:18,000 THE LEFT SIDE AS YOU CAN SEE ON THERE. 1919 01:42:18,000 --> 01:42:22,133 DEFENSE EXHIBIT 24 IS THE BODY OF CHRISTOPHER BYERS. 1920 01:42:22,133 --> 01:42:24,133 Lawyer: AND WHAT KIND OF INJURIES 1921 01:42:24,133 --> 01:42:27,400 DID CHRIS BYERS HAVE THAT YOU OBSERVED? 1922 01:42:27,400 --> 01:42:30,734 IT LOOKED AS THOUGH HIS PENIS HAD BEEN REMOVED. 1923 01:42:30,734 --> 01:42:35,333 WHEN THEY WERE DESCRIBING THE INJURIES TO MY SON, 1924 01:42:35,333 --> 01:42:37,600 OF COURSE I DIDN'T SEE MANY OF THE PHOTOS 1925 01:42:37,600 --> 01:42:41,200 BUT JUST HEARING THE DESCRIPTION, 1926 01:42:41,200 --> 01:42:44,967 UH, IT BROUGHT BACK THINGS 1927 01:42:44,967 --> 01:42:48,400 THAT HAD HAPPENED TO ME IN MY PAST 1928 01:42:48,400 --> 01:42:51,433 WHEN-- AHEM-- I WAS TORTURED 1929 01:42:51,433 --> 01:42:54,266 AND WHEN I WAS ATTACKED 1930 01:42:54,266 --> 01:42:56,233 AND WHEN I HAD-- 1931 01:42:56,233 --> 01:43:00,734 HAD FIVE PEOPLE BEAT ME UP AND TORTURE ME, 1932 01:43:00,734 --> 01:43:02,467 BUT I LIVED THROUGH IT. 1933 01:43:02,467 --> 01:43:05,033 AND IT BROUGHT BACK ALL THOSE FEELINGS 1934 01:43:05,033 --> 01:43:08,500 AND ALL THOSE EMOTIONS OF IT HAPPENING TO ME. 1935 01:43:08,500 --> 01:43:13,500 AND IT WAS LIKE THEY WERE READING OFF WHAT HAPPENED TO ME 1936 01:43:13,500 --> 01:43:17,567 AND I LIVED THROUGH IT INSTEAD OF WHAT HAPPENED TO CHRISTOPHER. 1937 01:43:17,567 --> 01:43:20,934 AND IT WAS JUST ALMOST LIKE A MENTAL THING. 1938 01:43:20,934 --> 01:43:25,500 IT JUST, UH-- I BASICALLY JUST HAD A MENTAL BREAKDOWN 1939 01:43:25,500 --> 01:43:27,700 FROM JUST, YOU KNOW, FROM HEARING IT. 1940 01:43:27,700 --> 01:43:29,867 IT WAS LIKE A LIVING NIGHTMARE, 1941 01:43:29,867 --> 01:43:32,934 RELIVING IT ALL OVER AGAIN, 1942 01:43:32,934 --> 01:43:37,200 EXCEPT IT WASN'T ME THAT THEY WERE READING IT ABOUT. IT WAS MY SON. 1943 01:43:42,567 --> 01:43:44,367 Byers: UH, FOR MY BRAIN TUMOR. 1944 01:43:44,367 --> 01:43:46,800 IT'S BEEN ACTING UP, GIVING ME A LOT OF PROBLEMS. 1945 01:43:46,800 --> 01:43:48,367 I JUST PASSED OUT THE OTHER DAY 1946 01:43:48,367 --> 01:43:50,100 AND BUSTED MY HEAD OPEN IN THE HOUSE, 1947 01:43:50,100 --> 01:43:52,767 - BLACKED OUT, HIT THE DOOR FACING. - JEEZ. 1948 01:43:52,767 --> 01:43:55,033 IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE OPERATED ON SOON. 1949 01:43:55,033 --> 01:43:59,000 - Sauls: WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO DO THAT? - PROBABLY AFTER CHRISTMAS. 1950 01:43:59,000 --> 01:44:00,600 Sauls: YEAH? 1951 01:44:00,600 --> 01:44:04,367 - IS SOME OF THESE JONESBORO FOLKS? - Sauls: HUH? 1952 01:44:04,367 --> 01:44:07,533 - Byers: IS THIS SOME OF THESE JONESBORO FOLKS? - Sauls: I DON'T KNOW. 1953 01:44:07,533 --> 01:44:10,700 - Byers: OR ARE THEY ALL OUT FROM WEST? - ALL OVER THE PLACE. 1954 01:44:10,700 --> 01:44:13,934 THERE'S ABOUT SIX OR EIGHT FROM ARKANSAS, I THINK. 1955 01:44:13,934 --> 01:44:16,433 - Sauls: WE GOT OHIO, WE GOT... - Man: NEW JERSEY. 1956 01:44:16,433 --> 01:44:19,433 - NEW JERSEY. - ILLINOIS. 1957 01:44:19,433 --> 01:44:20,767 CALIFORNIA. TENNESSEE. 1958 01:44:20,767 --> 01:44:22,700 Byers: THEY SAY IGNORANCE SPREADS REAL FAST. 1959 01:44:22,700 --> 01:44:24,934 HEY, WHY ARE YOU BEING SO MEAN TO US NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN 1960 01:44:24,934 --> 01:44:27,166 - WHEN THE CAMERAS ARE ROLLING? - Byers: I'M NOT BEING MEAN. 1961 01:44:27,166 --> 01:44:28,934 YOU'RE SO NICE TO US WHEN THE CAMERAS ARE OFF. 1962 01:44:28,934 --> 01:44:31,033 I'M NOT BEING MEAN TO YOU. I'M JUST SPEAKING MY MIND. 1963 01:44:31,033 --> 01:44:33,333 - YOU ARE TWO PEOPLE. - Byers: NO. 1964 01:44:33,333 --> 01:44:36,700 YEAH, YOU ARE. YOU WERE MY BUDDY LAST TIME. WHAT HAPPENED? 1965 01:44:36,700 --> 01:44:39,800 I NEVER SAID YOU WAS MY BEST FRIEND, YOU KNOW. 1966 01:44:39,800 --> 01:44:41,433 WELL, YOU WERE NICE TO ME AT LEAST. 1967 01:44:41,433 --> 01:44:43,834 NOW YOU'RE TELLING ME I'M IGNORANT AND AN IDIOT AND ALL THAT. 1968 01:44:43,834 --> 01:44:45,700 IT'S LIKE WHEN THE CAMERAS ROLL I'M AN IDIOT, 1969 01:44:45,700 --> 01:44:47,767 WHEN THEY'RE NOT, WE'RE BUDDIES. WHAT'S UP WITH THAT? 1970 01:44:47,767 --> 01:44:49,867 THE TRUTH HURTS. MIGHT AS WELL BE ON FILM. 1971 01:44:49,867 --> 01:44:51,300 OKAY, SO THIS IS THE TRUTH? 1972 01:44:51,300 --> 01:44:53,433 SO WHEN THE CAMERAS STOP THAT'S NOT THE TRUTH? 1973 01:44:53,433 --> 01:44:55,300 - NO. - THAT'S THE UNTRUE PART. 1974 01:44:55,300 --> 01:44:57,367 - NO. - WHICH ONE'S TRUE? 1975 01:44:57,367 --> 01:45:00,300 THE WAY I ACT AROUND YOU IS ONE THING. 1976 01:45:00,300 --> 01:45:03,600 TWO THINGS. WHICH ONE'S REAL THOUGH? 1977 01:45:03,600 --> 01:45:05,834 WHICH ONE YOU THINK'S REAL? 1978 01:45:05,834 --> 01:45:08,633 - I DON'T KNOW. - WELL, I GUESS IT'LL STAY A MYSTERY THEN. 1979 01:45:08,633 --> 01:45:10,633 OKAY. 1980 01:45:10,633 --> 01:45:13,166 Bakken: MARK, DID YOU EVER GIVE YOUR BITE IMPRESSIONS TO THE DEFENSE? 1981 01:45:13,166 --> 01:45:15,233 Byers: THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE ANY NEED TO DO THAT. 1982 01:45:15,233 --> 01:45:17,266 I'LL BE TAKING A POLYGRAPH VERY SOON. 1983 01:45:17,266 --> 01:45:21,066 AND WHEN THAT'S ALL CLEARED, WHY SHOULD I GIVE BITE MARKS? 1984 01:45:21,066 --> 01:45:23,667 Bakken: JUST THAT THE BITE MARKS WOULD EXCLUDE YOU ABSOLUTELY. 1985 01:45:23,667 --> 01:45:26,600 - I THINK THAT WOULD BE GOOD. - BITE MARKS WOULD EXCLUDE ME ANYWAY. 1986 01:45:26,600 --> 01:45:30,834 I DON'T HAVE ANY TEETH. THESE ARE DENTURES. 1987 01:45:32,266 --> 01:45:34,333 - Bakken: THE BOTTOM ONES ARE TOO? - YEAH. 1988 01:45:34,333 --> 01:45:36,900 SO YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE BITE MARKS OF TWO GUM PRINTS? 1989 01:45:36,900 --> 01:45:39,367 - GIMME A BREAK. - Bakken: OR SOME OLD DENTAL RECORDS. 1990 01:45:39,367 --> 01:45:41,934 THEY WERE DONE BEFORE THE KIDS WERE MURDERED. 1991 01:45:41,934 --> 01:45:44,967 STRIKES ALL THAT THEORY OUT. 1992 01:45:44,967 --> 01:45:46,867 WHEN DID YOU GET YOUR DENTURES? 1993 01:45:46,867 --> 01:45:49,200 'CAUSE I THINK I REMEMBER ON THE STEPS YOU SAID THAT 1994 01:45:49,200 --> 01:45:51,533 THAT WAS A LITTLE-- YOU SAID IT WAS AFTER THE KIDS. 1995 01:45:51,533 --> 01:45:53,033 Byers: IT WAS RIGHT THEN. 1996 01:45:53,033 --> 01:45:55,300 Bakken: YOU HAD YOUR DENTURES RIGHT WHEN THEY DIED? 1997 01:45:55,300 --> 01:45:58,200 NO, I'VE HAD THEM SINCE '93-- THE START. 1998 01:45:58,200 --> 01:46:00,633 Bakken: 'CAUSE LAST TIME YOU SAID IT WAS AFTER. 1999 01:46:00,633 --> 01:46:03,433 - MY MISTAKE. - Prichason: HOW DID YOU LOSE YOUR TEETH? 2000 01:46:03,433 --> 01:46:06,166 BECAUSE I'VE HEARD YOU LOST 'EM BUT NOT HOW. 2001 01:46:06,166 --> 01:46:11,000 BECAUSE I WAS TAKING TEGRETOL FOR MY EPILEPTIC SEIZURES. 2002 01:46:11,000 --> 01:46:14,567 AND TEGRETOL CAUSES PERIODONTAL DISEASE 2003 01:46:14,567 --> 01:46:17,166 AND THEY ALL STARTED ROTTING AND FALLING AND COMING OUT. 2004 01:46:17,166 --> 01:46:19,433 THEY JUST FALL OUT? YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO PULL 'EM? 2005 01:46:19,433 --> 01:46:21,400 YEAH, YOU HAVE PERIODONTAL DISEASE. 2006 01:46:21,400 --> 01:46:25,100 THAT'S WHEN THE GUMS LITERALLY MOVE AWAY FROM YOUR TEETH. 2007 01:46:56,166 --> 01:46:59,200 IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE ODONTOLOGIST 2008 01:46:59,200 --> 01:47:02,767 HAS NOW REVIEWED BITE-MARK IMPRESSIONS FROM ALL THREE DEFENDANTS, 2009 01:47:02,767 --> 01:47:07,100 COMPARED THEM WITH THE BITE MARK WHICH 2010 01:47:07,100 --> 01:47:09,633 THE ODONTOLOGIST HAS IDENTIFIED. 2011 01:47:09,633 --> 01:47:13,300 AND WE CAN EXCLUDE THE THREE DEFENDANTS WHO'VE BEEN CONVICTED 2012 01:47:13,300 --> 01:47:15,600 AS THE PERSON WHO MADE THAT BITE MARK. 2013 01:47:15,600 --> 01:47:17,934 WHAT'S EXCITING ABOUT THIS IS 2014 01:47:17,934 --> 01:47:22,633 WE NOW KNOW THAT THIS KID WAS BITTEN BY SOMEONE 2015 01:47:22,633 --> 01:47:27,400 AND THIS SOMEONE WAS NOT ANY OF THE THREE DEFENDANTS. 2016 01:47:27,400 --> 01:47:30,033 AND IT'S JUST-- I WISH AND PRAY 2017 01:47:30,033 --> 01:47:33,400 THAT THIS INFORMATION WOULD HAVE BEEN AVAILABLE TO US BACK AT TRIAL. 2018 01:47:33,400 --> 01:47:36,233 I THINK THE RESULT WOULD HAVE BEEN DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT. 2019 01:47:36,233 --> 01:47:37,900 Turvey: THIS IS THE INTERESTING THING: 2020 01:47:37,900 --> 01:47:40,500 BRENT DAVIS, THE PROSECUTOR, CLAIMS THAT 2021 01:47:40,500 --> 01:47:42,567 THIS IS NOT A BITE MARK. 2022 01:47:42,567 --> 01:47:46,367 BUT AS FRANK PERETTI-- WHO PERFORMED THE ORIGINAL AUTOPSY-- 2023 01:47:46,367 --> 01:47:49,867 SAYS, THAT THIS IS A BELL-SHAPED PATTERN ABRASION 2024 01:47:49,867 --> 01:47:53,033 THAT IS CONSISTENT WITH A BELT BUCKLE. 2025 01:47:53,033 --> 01:47:56,500 THEY'RE INTERPRETING, HAVING-- LOOKING BACK AT THIS INJURY, 2026 01:47:56,500 --> 01:47:58,900 THEY'RE INTERPRETING IT-- AND IT'S ONLY A TWO-DIMEN-- 2027 01:47:58,900 --> 01:48:00,734 THIS IS A TWO-DIMENSIONAL SURFACE. 2028 01:48:00,734 --> 01:48:02,900 IF WE WERE LOOKING AT A THREE-DIMENSIONAL SURFACE 2029 01:48:02,900 --> 01:48:05,000 WE WOULD SEE THAT THIS ACTUALLY CREATES A CIRCLE 2030 01:48:05,000 --> 01:48:07,266 BECAUSE THE EYE SOCKET CURVES IN AND CURVES UNDER. 2031 01:48:07,266 --> 01:48:10,066 THE TWO-DIMENSIONAL PHOTOGRAPH MAKES IT LOOK LIKE A BELL SHAPE. 2032 01:48:10,066 --> 01:48:13,066 BASICALLY THEY'RE GOING TO PUT ON TWO GUYS-- 2033 01:48:13,066 --> 01:48:16,066 ONE OF WHICH DID THE ORIGINAL AUTOPSY 2034 01:48:16,066 --> 01:48:17,467 AND MISSED THIS BITE MARK 2035 01:48:17,467 --> 01:48:20,066 AND BASICALLY STATE THAT THIS ISN'T A BITE MARK. 2036 01:48:20,066 --> 01:48:22,700 THE BOTTOM LINE HERE IS THAT THIS IS NOT LEGAL TRICKERY. 2037 01:48:22,700 --> 01:48:25,333 THIS IS HARD PHYSICAL EVIDENCE OF SOMEBODY ELSE 2038 01:48:25,333 --> 01:48:27,300 COMMITTING THIS CRIME. 2039 01:48:50,700 --> 01:48:53,233 Woman: I KNOW YOU'VE BEEN HERE FOR JUST ABOUT EVERY HEARING. 2040 01:48:53,233 --> 01:48:55,100 CAN YOU TELL ME YOUR OPINION ON THIS? 2041 01:48:55,100 --> 01:48:58,266 I THINK THE FACT THAT THERE'S BITE MARKS AND THEY DON'T MATCH THE THREE 2042 01:48:58,266 --> 01:49:00,633 IS PRETTY MUCH PROOF THAT THEY DIDN'T DO THIS. 2043 01:49:00,633 --> 01:49:04,266 AND THE BIG THING NOW IS THAT FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THE HISTORY OF THIS CASE, 2044 01:49:04,266 --> 01:49:08,200 WE'VE GOT QUALIFIED EXPERTS INVOLVED. IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT. 2045 01:49:08,200 --> 01:49:10,166 WHAT DOES HE THINK IT WILL DO TO HIS CASE? 2046 01:49:10,166 --> 01:49:12,700 WELL, HE KNOWS HE'S GONNA BE OUT OF PRISON BEFORE LONG. 2047 01:49:12,700 --> 01:49:15,066 EVENTUALLY THE TRUTH IS GONNA COME OUT. 2048 01:49:15,066 --> 01:49:17,133 - Woman: ARE YOU GONNA BE HERE TILL THE END? - YES. 2049 01:49:17,133 --> 01:49:19,867 I'M GONNA BE HERE HOWEVER MANY TIMES IT TAKES. 2050 01:49:19,867 --> 01:49:22,734 - HAVE YOU BEEN FOLLOWING THE CASE? - NO. 2051 01:49:22,734 --> 01:49:24,967 YOU KNOW, BUT I SEEN WHAT HAPPENED. 2052 01:49:24,967 --> 01:49:26,834 - YOU SAW WHAT HAPPENED? - MM-HMM. 2053 01:49:26,834 --> 01:49:29,567 - WHAT HAPPENED? - I'M NOT SURE IF THE THREE BOYS DONE IT OR NOT, 2054 01:49:29,567 --> 01:49:32,066 BUT THREE BOYS WERE THERE-- EXCUSE ME-- 2055 01:49:32,066 --> 01:49:33,700 THE THREE BOYS WERE THERE, 2056 01:49:33,700 --> 01:49:36,500 BUT THERE'S ONE MORE THAT'S RUNNING AROUND LOOSE RIGHT NOW. 2057 01:49:36,500 --> 01:49:39,400 - AND HE LIVES HERE IN JONESBORO RIGHT NOW. - WHO HE IS? 2058 01:49:39,400 --> 01:49:41,667 MARK BYERS. 2059 01:49:41,667 --> 01:49:44,500 YOU BELIEVE MARK BYERS HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THIS? 2060 01:49:44,500 --> 01:49:47,800 HE-HE WAS HOLDING A KNIFE. 2061 01:49:47,800 --> 01:49:50,533 WHAT MORE PROOF DO YOU NEED? HE WAS HOLDING A KNIFE. 2062 01:49:50,533 --> 01:49:53,367 THE THREE BOYS WERE NOT HOLDING A KNIFE. MARK BYERS WAS. 2063 01:49:53,367 --> 01:49:56,200 - Woman #2: AND HOW DID YOU WITNESS THIS? - Man: I SEEN IT. 2064 01:49:56,200 --> 01:49:57,967 Man #2: HAVE YOU TOLD THE POLICE WHAT YOU SAW? 2065 01:49:57,967 --> 01:50:00,300 I TRIED TO TELL THE POLICE, BUT NOBODY WANTS TO LISTEN TO ME. 2066 01:50:00,300 --> 01:50:02,867 I'VE TRIED TO TELL THE PROSECUTORS, BUT THEY DON'T WANT TO LISTEN TO ME. 2067 01:50:02,867 --> 01:50:04,133 Woman #3: WHY DON'T THEY WANT TO LISTEN? 2068 01:50:04,133 --> 01:50:05,433 I BEEN IN AN ACCIDENT BEFORE, YOU KNOW, 2069 01:50:05,433 --> 01:50:06,800 AND THEY THINK I'M ALL SCRAMBLED UP. 2070 01:50:06,800 --> 01:50:09,333 I'M PROBABLY SIGNING MY DEATH WARRANT RIGHT NOW. 2071 01:50:09,333 --> 01:50:11,633 I'M PROBABLY DOING THAT RIGHT NOW, BUT I DON'T CARE. 2072 01:50:11,633 --> 01:50:14,233 - Woman #4: WHAT IS YOUR NAME, SIR? - BUT I DON'T CARE. 2073 01:50:14,233 --> 01:50:16,500 YOU CAN GET IT SOMEWHERE ELSE. 2074 01:50:16,500 --> 01:50:18,533 I HAVE NO MORE COMMENTS. 2075 01:50:22,200 --> 01:50:25,333 THE GUY THAT YOU JUST INTERVIEWED OVER THERE? THAT'S "SENSATIONAL." 2076 01:50:25,333 --> 01:50:27,533 HE'S LIKE-- HE'S JUST LIKE JESSIE MISSKELLEY. 2077 01:50:27,533 --> 01:50:29,333 HE'S A GUY WHO'S GOT A STORY 2078 01:50:29,333 --> 01:50:32,166 AND YOU'RE GONNA-- I BET-- HERE'S MY BET-- 2079 01:50:32,166 --> 01:50:33,734 I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M GONNA DO-- 2080 01:50:33,734 --> 01:50:35,333 WE'RE GONNA SEE THAT ON THE NEWS TONIGHT. 2081 01:50:35,333 --> 01:50:36,867 I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M GONNA DO. 2082 01:50:36,867 --> 01:50:39,333 AND IT'S GONNA BE "BIG GROUNDBREAKING REVELATION CONFESSION." 2083 01:50:39,333 --> 01:50:42,300 - AND YOU GUYS ARE GONNA-- - JUST AS LONG AS THAT'S NOT THE ONLY THING. 2084 01:50:42,300 --> 01:50:45,166 DON'T PRE-EMPT EVERYTHING ELSE TO SHOW THAT. 2085 01:50:45,166 --> 01:50:47,367 BUT I WONDER IF YOU'RE GONNA USE ANY FOOTAGE 2086 01:50:47,367 --> 01:50:50,400 THAT YOU GOT OF STEVE BAKER OR ANYTHING THAT TALKS ABOUT FACTS 2087 01:50:50,400 --> 01:50:52,700 OR ANYTHING THAT WAS BROUGHT UP IN COURT TODAY. 2088 01:50:52,700 --> 01:50:54,467 ANY OF THE-- ANY OF THE "NEWS"... 2089 01:50:54,467 --> 01:50:58,233 - YES, I AGREE IT'S THE NEWS. - ...AS OPPOSED TO THE FICTION. 2090 01:50:58,233 --> 01:51:01,734 ONLY ONE NEWS STORY THAT I SAW MENTIONED THAT THE BITE-MARK IMPRESSIONS 2091 01:51:01,734 --> 01:51:04,600 DID NOT MATCH ANY OF THE THREE BOYS IN JAIL. 2092 01:51:04,600 --> 01:51:07,600 THAT WAS THE BIG NEWS YESTERDAY AND NONE OF THE REPORTERS WERE HERE. 2093 01:51:07,600 --> 01:51:09,967 AND NOBODY MENTIONED IT EXCEPT FOR ONE NEWS REPORT 2094 01:51:09,967 --> 01:51:12,433 THAT I SAW THIS MORNING ADDED IT AS AN AFTERTHOUGHT. 2095 01:51:12,433 --> 01:51:15,600 "OH, AND BY THE WAY, NONE OF THE BITE IMPRESSIONS TAKEN MATCHED." 2096 01:51:15,600 --> 01:51:18,467 WELL, SEE, I GOT THAT AFTERWARDS BECAUSE I COULDN'T STAY HERE. 2097 01:51:18,467 --> 01:51:20,934 - SO I HAD TO CALL SOMEONE. AND SO I ADDED IN-- - BUT YOU COULD HAVE ASKED. 2098 01:51:20,934 --> 01:51:23,500 - Sauls: EVERYBODY DASHED OUT. - WELL, WE DID. WE CAME HERE. 2099 01:51:23,500 --> 01:51:25,667 OH, I DID AND I PUT THAT AT THE END OF MY STORY. 2100 01:51:25,667 --> 01:51:27,767 - I HAD THAT AT THE END OF MY STORY. - Sauls: OKAY. 2101 01:51:27,767 --> 01:51:30,834 BUT IN THE FIRST CASE, 2102 01:51:30,834 --> 01:51:33,333 DID THE STATE BRING THEIR OWN ODONTOLOGIST? 2103 01:51:33,333 --> 01:51:35,166 NO, THERE WAS NEVER A MENTION OF BITE MARKS. 2104 01:51:35,166 --> 01:51:37,266 THEY WOULDN'T HAVE BROUGHT AN ODONTOLOGIST. 2105 01:51:37,266 --> 01:51:39,967 IF THEY HAD BROUGHT AN ODONTOLOGIST, THAT WOULD HAVE SUGGESTED 2106 01:51:39,967 --> 01:51:43,133 THAT THEY KNEW THERE WERE BITE MARKS OR SOME REASON TO BRING ONE. 2107 01:51:43,133 --> 01:51:46,667 BUT THERE WAS NO-- ORIGINALLY IT WAS EITHER OVERLOOKED OR IGNORED, 2108 01:51:46,667 --> 01:51:49,367 SO THEY HAD NO REASON TO BRING IN AN ODONTOLOGIST 2109 01:51:49,367 --> 01:51:51,700 BECAUSE IT WASN'T MENTIONED IN THE FIRST TRIAL. 2110 01:51:51,700 --> 01:51:55,400 WHEN WOULD THAT-- I MEAN, 'CAUSE SOMEONE TOLD ME THAT AND-- 2111 01:51:55,400 --> 01:51:57,533 Sauls: SOMEONE LIED TO YOU. 2112 01:51:57,533 --> 01:52:00,233 YOU PROBABLY SAW IT ON THE NEWS. 2113 01:52:00,233 --> 01:52:01,734 I DON'T-- ( laughs ) 2114 01:52:01,734 --> 01:52:03,233 MAYBE. 2115 01:52:11,533 --> 01:52:14,300 Announcer: Now live from your good neighbor station, 2116 01:52:14,300 --> 01:52:16,300 this is K8 News at 6. 2117 01:52:16,300 --> 01:52:18,266 Reporter: It was a packed courtroom again 2118 01:52:18,266 --> 01:52:21,133 as supporters and families of both victims and convicted 2119 01:52:21,133 --> 01:52:23,600 listened to the last day of testimony. 2120 01:52:23,600 --> 01:52:25,900 The state called two state medical examiners 2121 01:52:25,900 --> 01:52:28,200 who testified they did not find any bite marks. 2122 01:52:28,200 --> 01:52:30,867 However, an ondontologist, Dr. Thomas David, 2123 01:52:30,867 --> 01:52:34,600 testified for the defense that in his opinion it was a bite mark. 2124 01:52:34,600 --> 01:52:36,533 The state-called Dr. Harry Mincer, 2125 01:52:36,533 --> 01:52:38,367 also a forensic ondontologist, 2126 01:52:38,367 --> 01:52:41,266 said that it was not a human bite mark. 2127 01:52:41,266 --> 01:52:43,800 While the state and defense seesaw back and forth, 2128 01:52:43,800 --> 01:52:46,834 Damien's supporters remain optimistic. 2129 01:52:46,834 --> 01:52:48,433 - HOW ARE YOU DOING? - Byers: FINE. 2130 01:52:48,433 --> 01:52:50,734 GOOD. OKAY, HERE'S THE DEAL: 2131 01:52:50,734 --> 01:52:53,433 - THEY'RE GONNA TALK TO ME FROM NEW YORK. - MM-HMM. 2132 01:52:53,433 --> 01:52:56,467 YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE TALKING TO ME. WE'RE GONNA PUT AN EARPIECE IN. 2133 01:52:56,467 --> 01:52:59,066 YOU'RE GONNA HEAR GREGG JARRETT. HE'S THE HOST IN NEW YORK. 2134 01:52:59,066 --> 01:53:01,867 HIS NAME GREGG. YOU CAN JUST CALL HIM GREGG, IF YOU WANT TO. 2135 01:53:01,867 --> 01:53:04,300 - GOTCHA. - AND WHEN YOU ANSWER HIS QUESTIONS 2136 01:53:04,300 --> 01:53:06,600 JUST LOOK AT THE CAMERA INSTEAD OF ME. 2137 01:53:06,600 --> 01:53:08,300 - OKAY? - NO PROBLEM. 2138 01:53:09,667 --> 01:53:11,667 ACT LIKE I'VE DONE IT A HUNDRED TIMES. 2139 01:53:11,667 --> 01:53:13,700 YOU HAVE DONE IT A HUNDRED TIMES. 2140 01:53:13,700 --> 01:53:15,500 RUN THIS DOWN YOUR SHIRT... 2141 01:53:15,500 --> 01:53:18,367 - Tim: IS HE ALL RIGHT? - HE'S FINE. HE'S FINE WHERE HE IS. 2142 01:53:18,367 --> 01:53:21,400 IS MY SON'S PICTURE GOOD? 2143 01:53:24,667 --> 01:53:27,133 We're joined now by John Mark Byers, 2144 01:53:27,133 --> 01:53:30,600 adoptive father of the victim Christopher Byers. 2145 01:53:30,600 --> 01:53:32,567 Thank you for taking the time with us. 2146 01:53:32,567 --> 01:53:35,433 - MARK, GO AHEAD. - Mr. Byers? 2147 01:53:35,433 --> 01:53:38,533 - THEY DIDN'T ASK ME. - Mr. Byers, do you hear me? 2148 01:53:38,533 --> 01:53:40,367 HE HASN'T SAID A WORD TO ME. 2149 01:53:40,367 --> 01:53:43,166 - CAN YOU HEAR HIM? - NO, THERE'S NOTHING COMING THROUGH HERE. 2150 01:53:43,166 --> 01:53:45,367 Obviously we're having some technical difficulties. 2151 01:53:45,367 --> 01:53:47,367 Man: Mr. Byers, can you hear me? This is New York. 2152 01:53:47,367 --> 01:53:49,367 - Mr. Byers? - HE'S NOT SPEAKING TO ME. 2153 01:53:49,367 --> 01:53:51,533 - Tim, can you...? - YEAH, I CAN HEAR YOU, GREGG. 2154 01:53:51,533 --> 01:53:53,734 - CAN YOU HEAR THEM NOW, MR. BYERS? - NO, I CANNOT. 2155 01:53:53,734 --> 01:53:56,066 You're okay, Timmy. Don't worry about your mike. 2156 01:53:56,066 --> 01:53:57,734 - I got you dead. - CAN YOU HEAR HIM NOW? 2157 01:53:57,734 --> 01:54:00,266 So let's get it checked in and we'll go for the third block. 2158 01:54:00,266 --> 01:54:02,400 - Does that make sense, Tim? - YEAH, THAT'S FINE. 2159 01:54:02,400 --> 01:54:04,934 - See if his thing is kinked. - MR. SAULS IS GONNA JOIN US. 2160 01:54:04,934 --> 01:54:06,333 IT'LL BE IN TWO MINUTES. 2161 01:54:06,333 --> 01:54:08,767 ( production chatter ) 2162 01:54:12,934 --> 01:54:14,967 - Timmy, you still got me right? - I GOT YA, DOM, I GOT YA. 2163 01:54:14,967 --> 01:54:16,934 - Mr. Sauls can you hear me, sir? - YES. 2164 01:54:16,934 --> 01:54:18,600 - You can. - YES. 2165 01:54:18,600 --> 01:54:21,433 - And, Mr. Byers, can you hear me, sir? - YES, I CAN. 2166 01:54:21,433 --> 01:54:23,500 Okay, thank you. 2167 01:54:25,333 --> 01:54:27,600 Mr. Byers joins us again. 2168 01:54:27,600 --> 01:54:29,700 Hopefully we've solved the technical problem. 2169 01:54:29,700 --> 01:54:31,867 - Can you hear me now? - Yes, I can. 2170 01:54:31,867 --> 01:54:34,834 What do you think of Echols and the defense team 2171 01:54:34,834 --> 01:54:36,433 saying you're the killer? 2172 01:54:36,433 --> 01:54:38,400 I have a very good answer for that: 2173 01:54:38,400 --> 01:54:41,567 I'm 6'8" and weigh 252 lbs. 2174 01:54:41,567 --> 01:54:43,734 I'm the largest red herring 2175 01:54:43,734 --> 01:54:46,600 they've ever thrown in a jury box. 2176 01:54:46,600 --> 01:54:49,633 SOMEONE ELSE TO TAKE THE JURY'S MIND 2177 01:54:49,633 --> 01:54:52,166 OFF THE THREE REAL MURDERERS. 2178 01:54:52,166 --> 01:54:56,700 All right, joining us now also is, in Jonesboro, Burk Sauls. 2179 01:54:56,700 --> 01:55:00,967 He helps run the Free the West Memphis Three support fund. 2180 01:55:00,967 --> 01:55:03,834 Do you believe that Mr. Byers is the real killer? 2181 01:55:03,834 --> 01:55:06,333 I don't really-- 2182 01:55:06,333 --> 01:55:09,066 that's not the point of what we're doing here. 2183 01:55:09,066 --> 01:55:10,633 I'M NOT HERE TO ACCUSE ANYONE. 2184 01:55:10,633 --> 01:55:13,600 THAT'S ACTUALLY WHAT HAPPENED TO THESE THREE GUYS. 2185 01:55:13,600 --> 01:55:16,100 One of things that I guess a lot of people can't get over 2186 01:55:16,100 --> 01:55:19,500 is one of the three defendants-- all three were convicted-- 2187 01:55:19,500 --> 01:55:21,834 Jessie Misskelley confessed. 2188 01:55:21,834 --> 01:55:24,467 Uh, how do you account for that? 2189 01:55:24,467 --> 01:55:27,266 WELL, TO THE EXPERTS THAT TESTIFIED IN THE TRIAL 2190 01:55:27,266 --> 01:55:29,500 IT WAS A-- IT WAS A-- 2191 01:55:29,500 --> 01:55:34,100 TO THEM IT WAS A-- A FORCED CONFESSION. IT WAS COERCED. 2192 01:55:34,100 --> 01:55:35,700 What was coercive about it? 2193 01:55:35,700 --> 01:55:37,967 For one thing, there was a timeline problem 2194 01:55:37,967 --> 01:55:41,300 where he stated it happened early in the day 2195 01:55:41,300 --> 01:55:43,367 AND THEY LED HIM DOWN TO THE TIME 2196 01:55:43,367 --> 01:55:46,567 THAT THEY WANTED HIM TO SAY THAT IT HAD HAPPENED. 2197 01:55:46,567 --> 01:55:49,533 AND HE EVENTUALLY GAVE 'EM WHAT THEY WANTED. 2198 01:55:49,533 --> 01:55:52,367 I want to thank all of you for being with us. We appreciate it. 2199 01:55:52,367 --> 01:55:54,100 Coming up next on "Prime Time Justice," 2200 01:55:54,100 --> 01:55:56,900 President Clinton's war with independent counsel Ken Starr 2201 01:55:56,900 --> 01:55:58,533 isn't over yet. 2202 01:55:58,533 --> 01:56:01,033 ( music playing ) 2203 01:56:35,000 --> 01:56:38,033 Grinnell: I REALLY APPRECIATE WHAT Y'ALL HAVE DONE FOR THEM. 2204 01:56:38,033 --> 01:56:40,467 I THINK JUST THE FACT THAT WE LIVE IN LOS ANGELES 2205 01:56:40,467 --> 01:56:42,967 WHERE THERE MAY BE SOME TALENTS, THAT WE CAN PROBABLY 2206 01:56:42,967 --> 01:56:44,667 HELP THIS CASE OUT SOMEWHAT. 2207 01:56:44,667 --> 01:56:47,333 Pam: I KNOW AT THE AIRPORT YESTERDAY THERE WAS A YOUNG GUY 2208 01:56:47,333 --> 01:56:49,667 THAT WALKED PAST US AND HE HAD ON A BLACK SHIRT, 2209 01:56:49,667 --> 01:56:52,133 BLACK PANTS, BLACK TRENCH COAT AND BLACK BOOTS. 2210 01:56:52,133 --> 01:56:54,033 AND I THOUGHT-- ( gasps ) 2211 01:56:54,033 --> 01:56:56,333 "YOU GET IN TROUBLE IN THAT AT SOME PLACES." 2212 01:56:56,333 --> 01:56:57,734 Bakken: YEAH, WELCOME TO L.A. 2213 01:56:57,734 --> 01:56:59,900 50% OF THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE HERE DRESS LIKE THAT. 2214 01:56:59,900 --> 01:57:02,100 WE WERE LIKE, "WELL, THERE'S A GUY WEARING ALL BLACK. 2215 01:57:02,100 --> 01:57:03,734 THERE'S A WOMAN WEARING ALL BLACK. 2216 01:57:03,734 --> 01:57:07,633 THERE'S ANOTHER GUY WEARING ALL BLACK." IT'S A FLATTERING COLOR. 2217 01:57:07,633 --> 01:57:10,033 Pam: A LOT OF THE REASON THAT DAMIEN WORE THE BLACK 2218 01:57:10,033 --> 01:57:12,767 WAS BECAUSE SOMEONE TOLD HIM THAT HE WAS SEXY IN THE BLACK. 2219 01:57:12,767 --> 01:57:16,200 AND THEN HE WORE IT MOST OF THE TIME. 2220 01:57:16,200 --> 01:57:17,767 Pashley: THAT'S YOUR ARGUMENT. 2221 01:57:17,767 --> 01:57:19,900 THAT'S YOUR ARGUMENT THAT THESE GUYS ARE GUILTY. 2222 01:57:19,900 --> 01:57:21,867 IT'S LIKE, "COME ON, HOW SILLY IS THIS?" 2223 01:57:21,867 --> 01:57:23,600 SO-- AND OF COURSE IT WAS THE MEDIA, 2224 01:57:23,600 --> 01:57:25,934 THAT PORTRAYED THESE GUYS TO START, ANYTHING THAT... 2225 01:57:25,934 --> 01:57:27,100 THAT'S WHAT DID IT. 2226 01:57:27,100 --> 01:57:29,667 AND I COULDN'T BELIEVE ALL THE-- 2227 01:57:29,667 --> 01:57:32,800 THEY OVERWHELMED US FROM THE VERY BEGINNING 2228 01:57:32,800 --> 01:57:34,200 WHEN THEY ARRESTED 'EM 2229 01:57:34,200 --> 01:57:36,033 - AND THE MEDIA ATTACKED THEM. - YEAH. 2230 01:57:36,033 --> 01:57:38,633 SEE, NOW IT'S OUR TURN TO USE THE MEDIA TO OUR ADVANTAGE. 2231 01:57:38,633 --> 01:57:41,200 'CAUSE THE FIRST TIME AROUND THERE WAS NO CRITICAL THINKING. 2232 01:57:41,200 --> 01:57:43,900 THEY JUST REPORTED WHATEVER THEY MIGHT HAVE HEARD OR A RUMOR. 2233 01:57:43,900 --> 01:57:46,734 AND THEY REPORT IT AND YOU HEAR IT ON THE NEWS AND YOU THINK IT'S TRUE. 2234 01:57:46,734 --> 01:57:49,633 WELL, NOW WE HAVE THE "LEEZA" SHOW TO SHOW FACT. 2235 01:57:49,633 --> 01:57:52,300 FOR ONCE. YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT EMOTIONAL. 2236 01:57:52,300 --> 01:57:54,367 IT'S NOT ABOUT HOW PEOPLE FEEL. 2237 01:57:54,367 --> 01:57:55,600 IT'S ABOUT FACTS. 2238 01:57:55,600 --> 01:57:57,533 AND WE'RE GLAD TO HAVE YOU GUYS HERE TOO. 2239 01:57:57,533 --> 01:58:00,734 IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO HAVE YOUR GUYS' VOICES BE HEARD. 2240 01:58:00,734 --> 01:58:04,133 - Bakken: ARE YOU GUYS NERVOUS ABOUT THE SHOW? - VERY. 2241 01:58:04,133 --> 01:58:07,233 JUST BE YOURSELVES. YOU'LL DO GOOD. 2242 01:58:07,233 --> 01:58:09,133 Sauls: YOU'LL BE FINE. 2243 01:58:10,533 --> 01:58:12,033 - YOU STILL A LITTLE NERVOUS? - ( elevator dings ) 2244 01:58:12,033 --> 01:58:14,400 VERY. I'M VERY NERVOUS. 2245 01:58:38,333 --> 01:58:41,266 ( theme music playing ) 2246 01:58:46,700 --> 01:58:49,367 - ( applause ) - Leeza: Hello, everyone. Thank you. 2247 01:58:49,367 --> 01:58:51,500 Thanks for joining us once again. 2248 01:58:51,500 --> 01:58:54,166 Stidham: HOW DO YOU FEEL LIKE THE "LEEZA" SHOW WENT? 2249 01:58:54,166 --> 01:58:57,100 - DO YOU THINK IT WENT WELL OR? - I THOUGHT IT REALLY WELL. 2250 01:58:57,100 --> 01:58:58,834 YOU COULD HEAR PEOPLE IN THE BACKGROUND 2251 01:58:58,834 --> 01:59:00,700 THAT DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE CASE, 2252 01:59:00,700 --> 01:59:03,333 YOU COULD HEAR 'EM COMING ALONG AS THEY PRESENTED STUFF. 2253 01:59:03,333 --> 01:59:06,100 LIKE THE FIRST-- WHEN THE MOTHERS WERE OUT THERE, 2254 01:59:06,100 --> 01:59:07,600 THERE WAS SORT OF SOME SKEPTICISM. 2255 01:59:07,600 --> 01:59:09,166 YOU COULD KIND OF HEAR 'EM TALKING, 2256 01:59:09,166 --> 01:59:11,367 LIKE NO ONE WAS SURE WHETHER TO BELIEVE IT OR NOT. 2257 01:59:11,367 --> 01:59:14,367 AND THEN AS MORE AND MORE CAME OUT AND YOU GUYS WERE TALKING MORE, 2258 01:59:14,367 --> 01:59:16,567 YOU COULD HEAR PEOPLE STARTING TO GET ANGRY. 2259 01:59:16,567 --> 01:59:18,633 WHAT WAS THE AUDIENCE REACTION ABOUT THE-- 2260 01:59:18,633 --> 01:59:20,734 WHEN THEY LEARNED THAT ALL THREE DEFENDANTS 2261 01:59:20,734 --> 01:59:22,834 HAD BEEN EXCLUDED FROM MAKING THE BITE MARK? 2262 01:59:22,834 --> 01:59:25,133 IT WAS LIKE, "MATCH THE BITE MARK, FIND THE KILLER." 2263 01:59:25,133 --> 01:59:26,800 I MEAN, I THINK EVERYBODY GOT THAT. 2264 01:59:26,800 --> 01:59:28,934 IT WAS LIKE "OKAY, SO THE KIDS DON'T MATCH THE BITE MARK." 2265 01:59:28,934 --> 01:59:30,567 I THINK IT SORT OF SUNK IN THAT THAT MEANS-- 2266 01:59:30,567 --> 01:59:32,367 THE KID SHOULDN'T HAVE A BITE MARK ON HIS FACE. 2267 01:59:32,367 --> 01:59:34,400 HE DIDN'T LEAVE HOME WITH A BIG FAT BITE MARK ON HIS FACE. 2268 01:59:34,400 --> 01:59:36,133 IF THEY MISSED THAT, WHAT ELSE DID THEY MISS? 2269 01:59:36,133 --> 01:59:39,000 SO DID YOU GUYS SEE ANYTHING IN BYERS' INTERVIEW, 2270 01:59:39,000 --> 01:59:42,400 LIKE, DID YOU GUYS NOTICE THE CONFLICTING STORIES? 2271 01:59:42,400 --> 01:59:44,200 WHAT DID YOU READ FROM THAT? 2272 01:59:44,200 --> 01:59:46,066 DID YOU GET ANYTHING FROM THAT? 2273 01:59:46,066 --> 01:59:50,834 WELL, OBVIOUSLY, I THINK HE'S A LITTLE MIXED UP 2274 01:59:50,834 --> 01:59:54,400 - ABOUT HIS FELONY HISTORY. - ( both laugh ) 2275 01:59:54,400 --> 01:59:56,800 I NOTICED BYERS WASN'T WEARING HIS TEETH IN THE INTERVIEW. 2276 01:59:56,800 --> 01:59:59,867 - THAT'S TRUE. - NOW WHAT HAPPENED WITH HIS TEETH, DO YOU KNOW? 2277 01:59:59,867 --> 02:00:02,667 WELL, THERE'S SEVERAL DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF WHAT HAPPENED. 2278 02:00:02,667 --> 02:00:04,300 THE FIRST VERSION THAT I HEARD WAS 2279 02:00:04,300 --> 02:00:06,133 HE GOT 'EM KNOCKED OUT IN A FIGHT. 2280 02:00:06,133 --> 02:00:08,600 HE CHANGES HIS STORY. FIRST, A LONG TIME AGO HE SAID 2281 02:00:08,600 --> 02:00:10,333 HE GOT 'EM KNOCKED OUT IN A FIGHT. 2282 02:00:10,333 --> 02:00:12,433 THEN HE TOLD LEEZA THAT HE HAD 'EM SURGICALLY REMOVED. 2283 02:00:12,433 --> 02:00:14,300 AND HE TOLD ME THAT HE HAD TAKEN TEGRETOL 2284 02:00:14,300 --> 02:00:16,100 AND THAT THEY HAD JUST KIND OF ROTTED OUT. 2285 02:00:16,100 --> 02:00:18,133 - OH BOY. - BURK AND GROVE TOLD ME LAST NIGHT 2286 02:00:18,133 --> 02:00:21,033 THAT SOMETHING ABOUT BYERS HAD LEFT HIS TEETH SOMEWHERE 2287 02:00:21,033 --> 02:00:23,900 AND THAT'S WHY HE DIDN'T HAVE THEM ON DURING THE TAPING. 2288 02:00:23,900 --> 02:00:25,500 WHAT WAS THE STORY ON THAT? 2289 02:00:25,500 --> 02:00:28,767 I THINK THE PRODUCERS OF THE SHOW SAID THAT 2290 02:00:28,767 --> 02:00:30,166 UM, BYERS HAD TOLD THEM 2291 02:00:30,166 --> 02:00:32,700 THAT HE LEFT THEM IN A RESTAURANT SOMEWHERE. 2292 02:00:32,700 --> 02:00:35,200 AND SO HIS LAST PARTING WORDS TO THE PRODUCERS 2293 02:00:35,200 --> 02:00:36,700 WHEN HE WAS LEAVING THE SHOW, 2294 02:00:36,700 --> 02:00:38,667 WHICH HE HAD DONE WITHOUT HIS TEETH, IS 2295 02:00:38,667 --> 02:00:41,066 "I'M NOT LEAVIN' L.A. WITHOUT MY TEETH!" 2296 02:00:42,000 --> 02:00:44,300 THE TEST IS ABOUT TO BEGIN. 2297 02:00:46,300 --> 02:00:48,900 IS THIS THE MONTH OF OCTOBER? 2298 02:00:48,900 --> 02:00:51,166 YES. 2299 02:00:51,166 --> 02:00:53,367 REGARDING THOSE DEATHS, 2300 02:00:53,367 --> 02:00:56,100 DO YOU INTEND TO ANSWER TRUTHFULLY EACH QUESTION ABOUT THAT? 2301 02:00:56,100 --> 02:00:58,400 YES. 2302 02:01:00,166 --> 02:01:01,700 OTHER THAN WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, 2303 02:01:01,700 --> 02:01:04,066 DID YOU EVER WISH ANY PERSON WOULD DIE? 2304 02:01:04,066 --> 02:01:06,333 NO. 2305 02:01:08,400 --> 02:01:10,166 DID YOU HARM ANY OF THOSE BOYS? 2306 02:01:10,166 --> 02:01:11,967 NO. 2307 02:01:15,066 --> 02:01:16,834 OTHER THAN WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, 2308 02:01:16,834 --> 02:01:19,233 DID YOU EVER THINK ABOUT HURTING ANYONE? 2309 02:01:19,233 --> 02:01:21,467 NO. 2310 02:01:27,233 --> 02:01:30,133 DID YOU HARM ANY OF THOSE BOYS FOUND AT ROBIN HOOD HILLS? 2311 02:01:30,133 --> 02:01:32,033 NO. 2312 02:01:37,000 --> 02:01:39,767 THE TEST IS OVER. REMAIN SEATED, LOOKING STRAIGHT AHEAD. 2313 02:01:43,934 --> 02:01:45,567 Bakken: HERE'S THE WEBSITE. 2314 02:01:45,567 --> 02:01:47,133 THIS IS HOW ALL THE PEOPLE FIND US. 2315 02:01:47,133 --> 02:01:48,700 THEY CAN COME ON HERE AND THEY CAN READ ABOUT 2316 02:01:48,700 --> 02:01:50,133 EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN GOING ON. 2317 02:01:50,133 --> 02:01:52,333 Sauls: IT'S A PRETTY GOOD SYNOPSIS OF... 2318 02:01:52,333 --> 02:01:55,600 - MM-HMM. - ...OF OUR INVOLVEMENT AND WHAT HAPPENED. 2319 02:01:55,600 --> 02:01:58,300 Bakken: WE HAVE AN INDIVIDUAL PAGE FOR EACH-- 2320 02:01:58,300 --> 02:02:01,100 DAMIEN, JASON AND JESSIE. THEY EACH HAVE THEIR OWN PAGE. 2321 02:02:01,100 --> 02:02:02,934 THEN THERE'S DIFFERENT LINKS, 2322 02:02:02,934 --> 02:02:04,934 LIKE THE COLLEGE FUND FOR DAMIEN. 2323 02:02:04,934 --> 02:02:07,033 YOU KNOW HIS-- WHERE IT STANDS RIGHT NOW WITH HIM. 2324 02:02:07,033 --> 02:02:09,867 - THAT'S A REALLY GOOD PICTURE OF DAMIEN. - Man: THAT'S A GOOD PICTURE. 2325 02:02:09,867 --> 02:02:13,533 - OH YEAH, THAT LOOKS GOOD. - Bakken: KIND OF DAPPER. 2326 02:02:13,533 --> 02:02:17,533 HERE'S JASON'S PAGE. HE HAS SOME POEMS THAT WE GOT. 2327 02:02:17,533 --> 02:02:20,600 SO WE HAVE AN EXTRA PAGE JUST FOR HIS POETRY. 2328 02:02:20,600 --> 02:02:24,600 I NEVER DREAMED HE COULD WRITE POETRY THE WAY HE DOES. 2329 02:02:24,600 --> 02:02:26,800 Bakken: READ HIS POEM. 2330 02:02:26,800 --> 02:02:29,767 "AN ELECTRIC CHARGE IS IN THE AIR 2331 02:02:29,767 --> 02:02:31,900 THE SCENT OF BURNING OZONE, 2332 02:02:31,900 --> 02:02:34,667 THE DEEP BASS OF THUNDER RUMBLES, 2333 02:02:34,667 --> 02:02:36,934 WE FEEL IT IN OUR STOMACH. 2334 02:02:36,934 --> 02:02:39,734 THE WIND PICKS UP, THE CLOUDS CHOKE UP 2335 02:02:39,734 --> 02:02:42,166 TO BLOT OUT THE BLUE SKIES. 2336 02:02:42,166 --> 02:02:44,900 THE RAIN POURS DOWN, DRENCHING MY SOUL. 2337 02:02:44,900 --> 02:02:46,266 YOU ARE THERE 2338 02:02:46,266 --> 02:02:51,200 AND I NO LONGER FACE THE STORM ALONE." 2339 02:02:55,467 --> 02:02:57,100 MARK, ARE YOU FEELING BETTER? 2340 02:02:57,100 --> 02:02:58,934 YOU GOT THAT ARM STRAIGHTENED OUT 2341 02:02:58,934 --> 02:03:00,967 - AND HAD THAT SMOKE? - THE THING'S REMARKABLE. 2342 02:03:00,967 --> 02:03:03,266 - CONGRATULATIONS. - WELL, THANK YOU, SIR. 2343 02:03:03,266 --> 02:03:05,567 I DON'T, UH-- ACCORDING TO WHAT WE HAVE HERE, 2344 02:03:05,567 --> 02:03:07,200 YOUR RESPONSES ON THE CHART, 2345 02:03:07,200 --> 02:03:08,800 I FEEL YOU'RE TELLING THE TRUTH 2346 02:03:08,800 --> 02:03:10,467 ABOUT THE ISSUES WE WORKED WITH 2347 02:03:10,467 --> 02:03:13,300 AS FAR AS YOU SEE THEM. AS YOU SEE THEM. 2348 02:03:13,300 --> 02:03:15,834 GIVE ME A HIGH-FIVE. 2349 02:03:15,834 --> 02:03:17,967 THANK YOU! I KNEW IT WAS RIGHT. 2350 02:03:17,967 --> 02:03:19,333 I KNEW I WAS INNOCENT. 2351 02:03:19,333 --> 02:03:22,400 AND TO ALL OF YOU MORONS, FOOLS AND IDIOTS 2352 02:03:22,400 --> 02:03:24,967 THAT THOUGHT I HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT, 2353 02:03:24,967 --> 02:03:26,800 I AM NOW VINDICATED. 2354 02:03:26,800 --> 02:03:29,767 MAYBE THIS'LL SERVE A POINT TO SOME OF Y'ALL. 2355 02:03:29,767 --> 02:03:34,367 AND I FEEL SORRY AND MY HEART GOES OUT TO THE VICTIMS 2356 02:03:34,367 --> 02:03:39,333 THAT HAVE TO BE PUT THROUGH THINGS SUCH AS THIS 2357 02:03:39,333 --> 02:03:41,834 TO JUST ALREADY TRY TO CLEAR MY NAME 2358 02:03:41,834 --> 02:03:44,066 WHEN IT'S ALREADY BEEN VINDICATED ONCE-- 2359 02:03:44,066 --> 02:03:48,467 NOW IT'S BEEN VINDICATED TWICE BY A PROFESSIONAL 2360 02:03:48,467 --> 02:03:51,567 WHO I HAVE THE UTMOST RESPECT FOR. 2361 02:03:51,567 --> 02:03:55,166 AND I WANT EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU DEVIL-WORSHIPPERS TO KNOW 2362 02:03:55,166 --> 02:03:57,300 THAT YOU ARE WRONG AND YOU NEED TO GO 2363 02:03:57,300 --> 02:04:01,667 ON ANOTHER GHOST-HUNT AND LEAVE ME ALONE. 2364 02:04:01,667 --> 02:04:03,367 ( beeps ) 2365 02:04:03,367 --> 02:04:07,266 Computer voice: Your call is being connected. Thank you for using MCI. 2366 02:04:07,266 --> 02:04:10,033 - HELLO? - Damien: Hello. 2367 02:04:10,033 --> 02:04:12,433 - Bakken: HOW ARE YOU DOING? - Am I on speakerphone? 2368 02:04:12,433 --> 02:04:14,467 - Bakken: YES. - Pashley: HEY, DAMIEN. 2369 02:04:14,467 --> 02:04:17,333 - Bakken: YOUR MOM'S HERE. - YES, SAY HI. 2370 02:04:17,333 --> 02:04:18,900 - HI, SON. - Hello. 2371 02:04:18,900 --> 02:04:21,567 - HOW ARE YOU DOING? - Okay, I suppose. 2372 02:04:21,567 --> 02:04:24,667 - You okay? - Pam: I MISS YOU. YEAH, I'M OKAY. 2373 02:04:24,667 --> 02:04:26,800 - ARE YOU OKAY? - Yeah. 2374 02:04:26,800 --> 02:04:29,066 - OKAY. - Yeah. 2375 02:04:29,066 --> 02:04:31,133 - ( crying ) I MISS YOU. - Miss you too. 2376 02:04:31,133 --> 02:04:33,367 I don't want to hear any of that either. 2377 02:04:37,900 --> 02:04:40,967 I know you lie every time you come here too, 2378 02:04:40,967 --> 02:04:44,400 whenever you say you're not gonna cry on the way home. 2379 02:04:44,400 --> 02:04:46,567 But then you get out in the parking lot... 2380 02:04:47,734 --> 02:04:50,667 - ( whispers ) and you cry. - NOT EVERY TIME. 2381 02:04:50,667 --> 02:04:53,767 - ( sniffs ) - Why are you crying? 2382 02:04:53,767 --> 02:04:55,900 I JUST MISS YOU. 2383 02:04:55,900 --> 02:04:59,200 I miss you too, but I'm not doing all that. 2384 02:05:00,233 --> 02:05:02,734 Calm down. 2385 02:05:04,800 --> 02:05:08,500 - I love you. - I LOVE YOU, BABY. 2386 02:05:08,500 --> 02:05:12,100 - Calm down. - I'M OKAY. ( sniffling ) 2387 02:05:12,100 --> 02:05:15,433 - Stop crying. - Computer voice: You have exceeded your time limit. 2388 02:05:15,433 --> 02:05:17,900 - I'M NOT CRYING. - Man: This call is being terminated. 2389 02:05:17,900 --> 02:05:20,834 - Woman's voice: Your call is terminated. - ( dial tone ) 2390 02:05:28,767 --> 02:05:30,433 Byers: NOW THAT I LIVE ALONE, 2391 02:05:30,433 --> 02:05:34,300 I HAVE A LOT OF TIME ON MY HANDS FOR MY OWN DEMISE 2392 02:05:34,300 --> 02:05:36,467 OR FOR MY OWN WELL-BEING, 2393 02:05:36,467 --> 02:05:38,467 WHICHEVER I SO CHOOSE. 2394 02:05:38,467 --> 02:05:41,600 I SO CHOOSE FOR MY WELFARE AND MY WELL-BEING 2395 02:05:41,600 --> 02:05:43,400 RATHER THAN MY DEMISE. 2396 02:05:43,400 --> 02:05:46,000 YOU MIGHT WONDER WHAT DO I DO WITH ALL MY SPARE TIME. 2397 02:05:46,000 --> 02:05:49,300 WELL, I STILL ENJOY SINGING. 2398 02:05:49,300 --> 02:05:51,867 AND I TOOK SEVERAL SONGS AND PUT 'EM TOGETHER, 2399 02:05:51,867 --> 02:05:54,700 WENT TO A STUDIO HERE IN THE TOWN I LIVE IN 2400 02:05:54,700 --> 02:05:57,633 AND I RECORDED A SONG THAT MEANT A LOT TO ME 2401 02:05:57,633 --> 02:06:00,934 AND HAS BEEN A GREAT BLESSING OF FAITH AND HOPE, 2402 02:06:00,934 --> 02:06:03,200 THAT HAS HELPED ME THROUGH EVERY DAY. 2403 02:06:03,200 --> 02:06:05,667 AND THERE'S NOT A DAY GO BY THAT I DON'T LISTEN TO IT 2404 02:06:05,667 --> 02:06:08,333 OR SING IT OR AT LEAST TRY TO REMEMBER PART OF IT. 2405 02:06:08,333 --> 02:06:09,934 AND IF YOU'D LIKE, 2406 02:06:09,934 --> 02:06:13,800 I'LL SING A LITTLE OF THIS SONG FOR YOU TODAY. 2407 02:06:21,133 --> 02:06:25,300 - THIS CAME AFTER HOURS OF WORK... - ( music playing ) 2408 02:06:25,300 --> 02:06:27,600 ...AND $45. 2409 02:06:27,600 --> 02:06:30,367 AND YOU CAN HAVE ANYTHING MADE. 2410 02:06:37,500 --> 02:06:42,900 ♪ AMAZING GRACE ♪ 2411 02:06:42,900 --> 02:06:46,367 ♪ SHALL ALWAYS BE ♪ 2412 02:06:46,367 --> 02:06:51,433 ♪ MY SONG OF PRAISE ♪ 2413 02:06:51,433 --> 02:06:57,133 ♪ FOR IT WAS GRACE ♪ 2414 02:06:57,133 --> 02:07:05,633 ♪ THAT BOUGHT MY LIBERTY ♪ 2415 02:07:05,633 --> 02:07:11,333 ♪ I DO NOT KNOW ♪ 2416 02:07:11,333 --> 02:07:14,867 ♪ JUST WHY HE CAME ♪ 2417 02:07:14,867 --> 02:07:20,000 ♪ TO LOVE ME SO ♪ 2418 02:07:20,000 --> 02:07:25,834 ♪ HE LOOKED BEYOND ♪ 2419 02:07:25,834 --> 02:07:27,834 ♪ MY FAULT ♪ 2420 02:07:27,834 --> 02:07:34,700 ♪ AND SAW MY NEEDS ♪ 2421 02:07:34,700 --> 02:07:41,633 ♪ I SHALL FOREVER LIFT ♪ 2422 02:07:41,633 --> 02:07:48,700 ♪ MY EYES TO CALVARY ♪ 2423 02:07:48,700 --> 02:07:53,967 ♪ TO VIEW THE CROSS ♪ 2424 02:07:53,967 --> 02:08:02,300 ♪ WHERE JESUS DIED FOR ME ♪ 2425 02:08:02,300 --> 02:08:09,500 ♪ I'M ON THE LAST TERRAIN ♪ 2426 02:08:09,500 --> 02:08:16,900 ♪ THAT CAUGHT MY FALLING SOUL ♪ 2427 02:08:16,900 --> 02:08:21,834 ♪ HE LOOKED BEYOND ♪ 2428 02:08:21,834 --> 02:08:30,066 ♪ MY FAULT AND SAW MY NEED ♪ 2429 02:08:31,066 --> 02:08:36,266 ♪ HE LOOKED BEYOND ♪ 2430 02:08:36,266 --> 02:08:38,467 ♪ MY FAULT ♪ 2431 02:08:38,467 --> 02:08:46,367 ♪ AND SAW MY NEED... ♪ 2432 02:08:50,433 --> 02:08:53,600 - ( clears throat ) - ( music ends ) 2433 02:09:26,467 --> 02:09:29,266 EVERY NEW LITTLE PIECE OF INFORMATION 2434 02:09:29,266 --> 02:09:32,467 THAT SURFACES WITH THIS CASE POINTS AWAY 2435 02:09:32,467 --> 02:09:35,600 FROM THE THREE GUYS WHO ARE CURRENTLY SERVING PRISON SENTENCES. 2436 02:09:35,600 --> 02:09:37,533 AND ONE OF 'EM'S ON DEATH ROW. 2437 02:09:44,367 --> 02:09:47,533 IF THE THREE DEFENDANTS EVER GOT OUT, 2438 02:09:47,533 --> 02:09:49,967 UH, AND WERE RELEASED 2439 02:09:49,967 --> 02:09:52,033 I WOULD BE SICK. 2440 02:09:55,900 --> 02:09:59,233 I WASN'T CONVINCED FROM THE EVIDENCE 2441 02:09:59,233 --> 02:10:01,567 THAT IT WAS A BITE MARK. 2442 02:10:01,567 --> 02:10:03,600 AND SO RULED. 2443 02:10:07,500 --> 02:10:10,567 THE WEST MEMPHIS POLICE ARE NEVER GOING TO ADMIT THEY BOTCHED THIS UP. 2444 02:10:10,567 --> 02:10:13,133 THEY'RE NOT EVER GONNA ADMIT THAT THEY GOT THE WRONG PEOPLE. 2445 02:10:17,033 --> 02:10:20,333 I'LL WATCH YOU, YOU BASTARD, DAMIEN ECHOLS, 2446 02:10:20,333 --> 02:10:24,133 TAKE YOUR LAST BREATH, YOU LOWLIFE SON OF A BITCH. 2447 02:10:28,066 --> 02:10:31,000 IF I WERE RELEASED TODAY, 2448 02:10:31,000 --> 02:10:34,166 I WOULD KIND OF WANT TO JUST BLEND INTO OBSCURITY. 2449 02:10:34,166 --> 02:10:36,200 I WOULDN'T WANT TO BE REMEMBERED. 2450 02:10:36,200 --> 02:10:39,133 YOU KNOW, I WOULDN'T WANT TO WALK DOWN THE STREET AND HAVE SOMEONE SAY, 2451 02:10:39,133 --> 02:10:41,867 "HEY, YOU'RE THAT KID THAT WAS ON DEATH ROW 2452 02:10:41,867 --> 02:10:43,934 THAT THEY MADE THAT DOCUMENTARY ABOUT." 2453 02:10:43,934 --> 02:10:46,100 ( music playing )