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00:00:00,900 --> 00:00:08,900
{\an8}♪♪

2
00:00:26,900 --> 00:00:29,176
{\an8}♪♪

3
00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:31,542
{\an1}-The New York Shakespeare
Festival Mobile Theater

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00:00:31,566 --> 00:00:33,876
will present
"A Midsummer Night's Dream"

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00:00:33,900 --> 00:00:36,409
{\an1}tonight in your neighborhood
at 8:00 p.m.

6
00:00:36,433 --> 00:00:40,709
Admission is free.
Tonight in your neighborhood.

7
00:00:40,733 --> 00:00:43,642
-I can't be any more
than eight or nine years old.

8
00:00:43,666 --> 00:00:45,509
{\an1}I look outside the window,

9
00:00:45,533 --> 00:00:48,409
{\an1}and something is going on
in our park.

10
00:00:48,433 --> 00:00:51,876
{\an1}A couple of trailers show up,
they start building something.

11
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I'm eight years old.

12
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I don't know
what the hell it is.

13
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{\an8}♪♪

14
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{\an1}-He wanted Shakespeare to be
like a public library.

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00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,476
Free, accessible.
You help people get it.

16
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{\an1}-Why don't we charge admission?

17
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{\an1}'Cause it's considered important

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{\an1}to the life of the city,
the educational life.

19
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-Joe Papp was saying,
this is the way art should be.

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{\an7}I mean, this was public theater
that was public... it was free.

21
00:01:21,766 --> 00:01:24,209
{\an7}-I felt even a quarter
would be too much.

22
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{\an7}[ Renaissance music playing ]

23
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{\an7}-I'm sitting there in these
bleachers, and all of a sudden

24
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{\an8}there's these people
in the weirdest garments

25
00:01:35,766 --> 00:01:37,342
{\an7}I'd ever seen in my life.

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{\an1}My father's sitting next to me,
and we're just watching,

27
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{\an1}you know, Shakespeare.

28
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-[ Indistinct ]

29
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{\an1}-We were taught by our teachers
in high school

30
00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:48,942
{\an1}that Shakespeare was hard stuff.

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Cultural spinach.

32
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-Away, you ugly cow!

33
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{\an1}-But there's Joe Papp doing it

34
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{\an1}in the back of a truck
in my neighborhood.

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-Demetrius, I will
keep my word with thee!

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{\an7}-And that adds something.

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{\an7}That's a different perspective
on Shakespeare.

38
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{\an8}That's beautiful.

39
00:02:03,733 --> 00:02:06,709
{\an7}-He wanted the theater to be
as public as the library was.

40
00:02:06,733 --> 00:02:09,409
{\an7}He said if the library
had not been public,

41
00:02:09,433 --> 00:02:12,809
{\an7}he would never have discovered
Shakespeare.

42
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{\an7}-The theater was his pen.

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{\an7}It was the means by which
he wrote his commentary

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{\an8}on what was going on
in the society.

45
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{\an8}And we were the ink.

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00:02:22,733 --> 00:02:30,733
{\an8}♪♪

47
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{\an7}-He felt that his theater
could lead an army...

48
00:02:35,733 --> 00:02:42,909
{\an8}♪♪

49
00:02:42,933 --> 00:02:44,976
{\an7}...that he could fight
the good fight,

50
00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,442
{\an7}that he could put his theater
on a tank and lead a division.

51
00:02:48,466 --> 00:02:50,576
{\an8}-I must do something
that has some value.

52
00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,609
{\an7}I can't just... can't be
in show business.

53
00:02:52,633 --> 00:02:54,442
{\an7}I just don't do shows.

54
00:02:54,466 --> 00:02:56,476
{\an7}They must have meaning.

55
00:02:56,500 --> 00:03:00,309
{\an7}-The way he swam between
the world of the avant garde

56
00:03:00,333 --> 00:03:03,376
{\an1}and the commercial world
was completely admirable.

57
00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:11,400
{\an8}♪♪

58
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{\an1}-Oh, for a muse of fire
that would ascend

59
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the brightest heaven
of invention.

60
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{\an1}A kingdom for a stage...

61
00:03:37,533 --> 00:03:39,476
princes to act...

62
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{\an1}and monarchs to behold
the swelling scene.

63
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{\an8}♪♪

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{\an1}-I was born in Brooklyn.
Williamsburg part of Brooklyn.

65
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{\an8}♪♪

66
00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,009
{\an1}Always danger of some kind,
of being beaten up.

67
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{\an1}I mean, there was stabbing.

68
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{\an1}You'd always see someone
running down the block

69
00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,033
{\an1}with a knife in his chest.

70
00:04:04,433 --> 00:04:06,433
{\an1}And I learned one thing
at the time.

71
00:04:08,700 --> 00:04:09,842
If you hit first,

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you have a tremendous
psychological advantage.

73
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{\an8}♪♪

74
00:04:16,566 --> 00:04:20,066
I was only 12,
and I picked that up.

75
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The time I was young,
which was in the '30s,

76
00:04:27,700 --> 00:04:31,642
{\an1}there was a tremendous
amount of ferment.

77
00:04:31,666 --> 00:04:35,176
{\an1}There were extraordinary
streams of thought

78
00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,009
that were coming...
Coming around,

79
00:04:38,033 --> 00:04:39,409
particularly
in the poor neighborhood

80
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in which I was born,
because of the Depression.

81
00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,376
{\an1}I mean, every second person
was a radical.

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00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:48,709
{\an1}In fact, the Young Communist
League used to have a storefront

83
00:04:48,733 --> 00:04:50,309
that said
"Young Communist League"

84
00:04:50,333 --> 00:04:51,366
right in the front.

85
00:04:53,700 --> 00:04:55,876
What they were saying
sounded very good.

86
00:04:55,900 --> 00:05:00,876
{\an1}The elimination of poverty
and class distinctions.

87
00:05:00,900 --> 00:05:03,076
{\an1}There was a group of thugs
like myself

88
00:05:03,100 --> 00:05:04,942
{\an1}which would take furniture
that had been placed

89
00:05:04,966 --> 00:05:05,976
out on the sidewalk.

90
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,142
{\an1}People couldn't pay their rent.

91
00:05:09,166 --> 00:05:11,076
They'd empty out
the whole apartment

92
00:05:11,100 --> 00:05:12,676
{\an1}and throw it onto the street,

93
00:05:12,700 --> 00:05:15,876
{\an1}and you'd see a whole family
on the street.

94
00:05:15,900 --> 00:05:17,642
{\an1}We'd wait until nightfall.

95
00:05:17,666 --> 00:05:19,142
{\an1}We put it right back in again.

96
00:05:19,166 --> 00:05:20,809
{\an1}The police would come and try
to stop us.

97
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We'd disappear.

98
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{\an8}♪♪

99
00:05:28,566 --> 00:05:30,209
When I was young,

100
00:05:30,233 --> 00:05:32,242
I had no idea
what culture meant or...

101
00:05:32,266 --> 00:05:33,500
{\an1}it was never even mentioned.

102
00:05:35,666 --> 00:05:38,309
{\an1}But the tastes of young people
were very, very high.

103
00:05:38,333 --> 00:05:39,709
{\an1}We knew what was good.

104
00:05:39,733 --> 00:05:42,309
You knew a good song.
You knew a good baseball player.

105
00:05:42,333 --> 00:05:44,276
I mean, boy,
they know a good dancer.

106
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{\an8}♪♪

107
00:05:51,233 --> 00:05:53,809
{\an1}I was in junior high school,

108
00:05:53,833 --> 00:05:57,466
{\an1}and some teacher read a little
scene from "Julius Caesar."

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{\an1}It was a speech about rousing
people to action and loyalty.

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I loved that speech.

111
00:06:05,733 --> 00:06:09,609
{\an1}"You blocks, you stones,
you worse than senseless things.

112
00:06:09,633 --> 00:06:12,466
O you hard hearts,
you cruel men of Rome."

113
00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,176
{\an1}I identified with the character.

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00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:22,442
{\an1}He was protesting some injustice
done to someone he cared for.

115
00:06:22,466 --> 00:06:24,042
I didn't understand
a lot of the things,

116
00:06:24,066 --> 00:06:28,709
{\an1}but it sounded so good,
and I memorized it.

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00:06:28,733 --> 00:06:33,609
{\an8}♪♪

118
00:06:33,633 --> 00:06:37,176
{\an1}I didn't admit to anybody
that I loved Shakespeare.

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00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:38,642
On my block,

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00:06:38,666 --> 00:06:41,209
{\an1}if you told that to any of
those guys, they'd beat you up.

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00:06:41,233 --> 00:06:48,142
{\an8}♪♪

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00:06:48,166 --> 00:06:50,342
{\an7}-He has new cultural experiences

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00:06:50,366 --> 00:06:54,376
{\an7}and he becomes dedicated
to continuing the process

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{\an8}for other people
who haven't been as lucky.

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00:06:56,266 --> 00:06:59,642
{\an8}He takes Shakespeare,
and he disseminates.

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00:06:59,666 --> 00:07:07,666
{\an8}♪♪

127
00:07:08,766 --> 00:07:13,342
{\an1}-I started walking around,
and I stumbled on this place,

128
00:07:13,366 --> 00:07:15,276
the East River Park
Amphitheater.

129
00:07:15,300 --> 00:07:17,109
{\an1}It's one of the roughest
neighborhoods in the city,

130
00:07:17,133 --> 00:07:19,309
{\an1}and yet I felt very much
at home in that community.

131
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It's a neighborhood
where people are on the street.

132
00:07:24,100 --> 00:07:27,509
{\an1}-I got a call one day,
and this voice came on and said,

133
00:07:27,533 --> 00:07:29,576
"Colleen Dewhurst?"
I said, "Yes."

134
00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:31,309
{\an1}He said, "My name's Joe Papp.

135
00:07:31,333 --> 00:07:32,876
{\an1}I'm going to start a company...

136
00:07:32,900 --> 00:07:36,876
{\an1}Shakespeare for the people,
something that is free."

137
00:07:36,900 --> 00:07:39,142
{\an1}And I mean, did I care?

138
00:07:39,166 --> 00:07:41,442
I just want to know,
does this man have a job for me?

139
00:07:41,466 --> 00:07:42,733
[ Chuckles ]

140
00:07:44,566 --> 00:07:47,709
{\an1}-Saturday was the last day
for actors to audition

141
00:07:47,733 --> 00:07:49,109
for the New York
Shakespeare Festival

142
00:07:49,133 --> 00:07:51,542
{\an1}for its inaugural season.

143
00:07:51,566 --> 00:07:54,976
{\an1}I told my friends, "Tomorrow
I'm going to become an actor."

144
00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,709
And they said, "What?
You're Black.

145
00:07:57,733 --> 00:08:00,309
{\an1}You don't know how tough
it's going to be.

146
00:08:00,333 --> 00:08:04,209
They'll have you
bearing torches."

147
00:08:04,233 --> 00:08:08,442
{\an1}By 6:00 p.m. the next day,
Joseph Papp was saying to me,

148
00:08:08,466 --> 00:08:09,676
"You're new to me.

149
00:08:09,700 --> 00:08:11,242
How long have you
been an actor?"

150
00:08:11,266 --> 00:08:13,409
{\an1}And I said, "12 hours,
but I have no intention

151
00:08:13,433 --> 00:08:14,742
{\an1}of bearing any torches."

152
00:08:14,766 --> 00:08:16,442
{\an1}And he broke up laughing.

153
00:08:16,466 --> 00:08:19,842
He says,
"No, you'll have words."

154
00:08:19,866 --> 00:08:22,642
{\an1}-Joe wanted to fill the stage
with the same kind of people

155
00:08:22,666 --> 00:08:24,176
he was going to fill
the audience with...

156
00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,209
{\an1}all the people of the city.

157
00:08:26,233 --> 00:08:29,509
{\an7}-He thought, "If I'm...
If I can be in this,

158
00:08:29,533 --> 00:08:32,509
{\an8}if I'm King Lear,
then everybody else can be."

159
00:08:32,533 --> 00:08:36,376
{\an8}♪♪

160
00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:38,209
-The first show
that opened here,

161
00:08:38,233 --> 00:08:40,609
{\an1}with no advertising, nothing,
just opened the doors,

162
00:08:40,633 --> 00:08:42,676
{\an1}and the place was packed.

163
00:08:42,700 --> 00:08:45,542
{\an1}-You couldn't stop the people
from coming in.

164
00:08:45,566 --> 00:08:48,009
-Every color...

165
00:08:48,033 --> 00:08:52,009
{\an1}every possible group was there.

166
00:08:52,033 --> 00:08:54,709
{\an1}-Old people, young people,
Jewish people,

167
00:08:54,733 --> 00:08:59,809
{\an1}Hispanic people, Black people,
hundreds of people.

168
00:08:59,833 --> 00:09:03,109
{\an1}-These people were dealing with
Shakespeare for the first time,

169
00:09:03,133 --> 00:09:05,209
probably theater
for the first time.

170
00:09:05,233 --> 00:09:08,209
{\an1}-They laughed. They roared.
The people would yell.

171
00:09:08,233 --> 00:09:12,076
They'd go, "Look out!
Here she comes! Look out!"

172
00:09:12,100 --> 00:09:13,709
-"Don't do it, Romeo!
She ain't dead.

173
00:09:13,733 --> 00:09:15,742
Romeo, don't do it!
Oh, Christ!"

174
00:09:15,766 --> 00:09:17,109
{\an1}-It was all very much alive,

175
00:09:17,133 --> 00:09:20,442
almost like
an Elizabethan audience.

176
00:09:20,466 --> 00:09:22,842
{\an1}- "The Taming of the Shrew"
was on at the amphitheater

177
00:09:22,866 --> 00:09:24,266
opening night...

178
00:09:26,466 --> 00:09:28,542
{\an1}...and there was a thunderstorm.

179
00:09:28,566 --> 00:09:31,909
[ Thunder booming ]

180
00:09:31,933 --> 00:09:33,976
{\an1}The rain ends the first act,

181
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:38,409
and Gelb writes this
glowing review of one act.

182
00:09:38,433 --> 00:09:40,176
{\an8}♪♪

183
00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,642
{\an8}-"It started to rain
at 9:45 last night.

184
00:09:44,666 --> 00:09:48,876
{\an7}Petruchio had just finished
giving Kate a sound trouncing.

185
00:09:48,900 --> 00:09:52,109
{\an8}The audience was
leaning raptly forward.

186
00:09:52,133 --> 00:09:57,042
{\an8}It started raining,
and the audience did not leave.

187
00:09:57,066 --> 00:09:59,742
{\an8}If ever an audience
was with the play,

188
00:09:59,766 --> 00:10:01,309
{\an8}this one was.

189
00:10:01,333 --> 00:10:03,676
{\an7}Exclamations of dismay,

190
00:10:03,700 --> 00:10:06,176
{\an7}disappointed shouts resounded

191
00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:07,976
{\an7}in a blending of dialects

192
00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:13,142
that could be heard
only on the Lower East Side."

193
00:10:13,166 --> 00:10:14,776
{\an1}-He wrote this wonderful piece,

194
00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:18,676
and it became
kind of a turning point for me.

195
00:10:18,700 --> 00:10:24,109
{\an1}-We were all very young
with no notion

196
00:10:24,133 --> 00:10:29,776
that we were forming
an institution.

197
00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:31,842
{\an1}And we watched it growing.

198
00:10:31,866 --> 00:10:33,542
{\an1}We watched it growing.

199
00:10:33,566 --> 00:10:35,900
{\an8}♪♪

200
00:10:37,666 --> 00:10:42,209
{\an8}♪♪

201
00:10:42,233 --> 00:10:45,076
{\an1}-I didn't know that Joe
was an active communist

202
00:10:45,100 --> 00:10:48,433
{\an1}when I fell in love with him
and I promised to marry him.

203
00:10:51,300 --> 00:10:54,409
{\an1}-Joe's first professional job
in the theater

204
00:10:54,433 --> 00:10:58,876
{\an1}was in a touring company
of "Death of a Salesman."

205
00:10:58,900 --> 00:11:01,600
One of the members of
the company was Peggy Bennion.

206
00:11:04,133 --> 00:11:07,442
{\an1}-I had a dressing room
that was on the fifth floor,

207
00:11:07,466 --> 00:11:09,576
and he would run up
five flights of stairs

208
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,309
{\an8}in between his cues
to talk to me.

209
00:11:13,333 --> 00:11:18,042
{\an7}One night, he missed a cue,
so he didn't do that anymore.

210
00:11:18,066 --> 00:11:21,209
{\an7}Once he was talking about
going "shee-ing."

211
00:11:21,233 --> 00:11:22,676
{\an8}I said, "Shee-ing?"

212
00:11:22,700 --> 00:11:24,309
{\an8}And he said, "Yes,

213
00:11:24,333 --> 00:11:26,776
{\an7}that's the English pronunciation
for skiing."

214
00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,809
{\an7}He said, "My mother is English."

215
00:11:29,833 --> 00:11:32,842
{\an8}-Joe affected
a rather elegant speech.

216
00:11:32,866 --> 00:11:34,909
{\an7}One didn't know that he was
from Brooklyn. I didn't know.

217
00:11:34,933 --> 00:11:39,476
{\an7}But maybe I just didn't
recognize a Brooklyn accent.

218
00:11:39,500 --> 00:11:41,209
-It was very painful
when I realized

219
00:11:41,233 --> 00:11:42,676
{\an1}I was falling in love with him

220
00:11:42,700 --> 00:11:48,742
{\an1}because he was married
and had a three-year-old son.

221
00:11:48,766 --> 00:11:53,100
-In fact, Michael
was Joe's second child.

222
00:11:54,300 --> 00:11:57,142
{\an1}There had been a first marriage,

223
00:11:57,166 --> 00:12:01,442
{\an1}and there was one child
from that marriage.

224
00:12:01,466 --> 00:12:03,409
{\an1}Joe and I were best friends,

225
00:12:03,433 --> 00:12:05,309
{\an1}yet I didn't know about
that marriage

226
00:12:05,333 --> 00:12:07,300
{\an1}until many, many years later.

227
00:12:09,633 --> 00:12:13,609
{\an1}-Imagine my bringing home
to my family...

228
00:12:13,633 --> 00:12:16,376
somebody who had been
married twice before,

229
00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:20,442
who had two children,
and who was an active communist

230
00:12:20,466 --> 00:12:22,376
{\an1}at the height of McCarthyism.

231
00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,333
My poor parents.

232
00:12:26,666 --> 00:12:28,909
{\an7}-The New York Shakespeare
Festival Mobile Theater

233
00:12:28,933 --> 00:12:32,576
{\an7}is here tonight at 8:00 p.m. at
Madison and [indistinct] Street.

234
00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:33,976
At Madison
and [indistinct] Street.

235
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,366
Admission is free.

236
00:12:36,700 --> 00:12:39,442
{\an1}-It was so characteristic of Joe

237
00:12:39,466 --> 00:12:42,842
{\an1}to think that what was good
in the borough of Manhattan

238
00:12:42,866 --> 00:12:44,742
would be even better
were it to be extended

239
00:12:44,766 --> 00:12:46,742
{\an1}to the outlying boroughs.

240
00:12:46,766 --> 00:12:49,142
And so Joe developed

241
00:12:49,166 --> 00:12:51,009
the Mobile Theater.

242
00:12:51,033 --> 00:12:54,176
-It was a portable
35-foot trailer truck

243
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,409
{\an1}in which we built a stage
which would unfold.

244
00:12:57,433 --> 00:12:59,542
I arranged to get
a sanitation truck

245
00:12:59,566 --> 00:13:02,642
to pull this thing
around the city.

246
00:13:02,666 --> 00:13:05,342
{\an1}I found myself directing
all the plays on the mobile unit

247
00:13:05,366 --> 00:13:06,976
because I felt
this was the thing I wanted

248
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:08,742
{\an1}to be closely identified with

249
00:13:08,766 --> 00:13:11,742
to bring Shakespeare
to these communities.

250
00:13:11,766 --> 00:13:13,942
{\an1}-What dreadful dole is here!

251
00:13:13,966 --> 00:13:16,609
Eyes, do you see?
How can it be?

252
00:13:16,633 --> 00:13:20,376
{\an1}-I remember a couple of women
who were very distrustful,

253
00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,976
{\an1}like, you know, "What are
these white people doing?"

254
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,809
{\an1}-Be certain, nothing truer,
'tis no jest.

255
00:13:25,833 --> 00:13:28,609
{\an1}-But then the play gets going.

256
00:13:28,633 --> 00:13:33,009
- And love Helena.
- O me!

257
00:13:33,033 --> 00:13:34,709
[ Laughter ]

258
00:13:34,733 --> 00:13:37,109
{\an1}-There was some sense of
you're going to see

259
00:13:37,133 --> 00:13:38,976
{\an1}something of your own life here,

260
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:43,376
{\an1}some reflection of you,
if you just give it a chance.

261
00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:49,042
[ Laughter,
man speaking indistinctly ]

262
00:13:49,066 --> 00:13:55,933
{\an8}♪♪

263
00:13:57,633 --> 00:14:01,776
{\an8}♪♪

264
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:07,142
{\an1}-The culminating venue of this
Mobile Theater was Central Park.

265
00:14:07,166 --> 00:14:09,709
{\an1}We brought this truck in, came
in about 2:00 in the morning.

266
00:14:09,733 --> 00:14:10,876
I had no permit.

267
00:14:10,900 --> 00:14:12,576
{\an1}There's a cop on a horse,
and he saw me go by,

268
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,142
kind of looked at me
kind of strangely.

269
00:14:14,166 --> 00:14:15,876
{\an1}But he must have assumed
nobody would come in

270
00:14:15,900 --> 00:14:18,876
{\an1}with a huge 45-foot platform
trailer without a permit,

271
00:14:18,900 --> 00:14:20,876
and the truck began
to fall apart.

272
00:14:20,900 --> 00:14:22,376
{\an1}I mean, it kept going over
to the side.

273
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:23,709
You'd see it coming
around a corner,

274
00:14:23,733 --> 00:14:26,576
everybody'd go, "Oh!"
- [ Laughs ]

275
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,909
{\an1}-By the time the company
got to Central Park,

276
00:14:28,933 --> 00:14:30,709
{\an1}the trucks would no longer roll.

277
00:14:30,733 --> 00:14:33,876
{\an1}And so, by sheer inadvertence,

278
00:14:33,900 --> 00:14:37,342
{\an1}the Shakespeare Festival
wound up on the shore

279
00:14:37,366 --> 00:14:40,109
of this little pond
in Central Park.

280
00:14:40,133 --> 00:14:45,042
{\an8}♪♪

281
00:14:45,066 --> 00:14:48,542
-Here in this park,
Central Park, New York,

282
00:14:48,566 --> 00:14:51,976
{\an1}Papp's Shakespeare performances
are absolutely free.

283
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,842
{\an1}The only way to get a seat
is to kill for it.

284
00:14:54,866 --> 00:14:57,842
{\an1}The whole thing is paid for by
private and public donations...

285
00:14:57,866 --> 00:14:59,542
{\an1}the sort of thing I dare say
that could only happen

286
00:14:59,566 --> 00:15:00,742
in America.

287
00:15:00,766 --> 00:15:03,909
{\an8}♪♪

288
00:15:03,933 --> 00:15:05,976
{\an1}-The idea that you're going to
put on plays of Shakespeare

289
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:07,742
for ordinary people
who are supposed

290
00:15:07,766 --> 00:15:10,042
{\an1}not to understand Shakespeare
and not charge admission,

291
00:15:10,066 --> 00:15:11,542
{\an1}it was a kind of a radical act.

292
00:15:11,566 --> 00:15:14,309
{\an1}I didn't think it was radical.

293
00:15:14,333 --> 00:15:15,809
-[ Knocking ]

294
00:15:15,833 --> 00:15:19,142
{\an1}-Joe didn't realize that
his political ideals

295
00:15:19,166 --> 00:15:21,942
{\an1}would come back to haunt him.

296
00:15:21,966 --> 00:15:24,142
The FBI used to come
and knock on our door

297
00:15:24,166 --> 00:15:26,376
{\an1}trying to get Joe to inform.

298
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,576
{\an1}-We just thought we'd drop in
and have a little talk with you.

299
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,509
We're from Red Squad.

300
00:15:30,533 --> 00:15:34,209
{\an7}-He was asked to name names,
to ruin people's careers.

301
00:15:34,233 --> 00:15:36,676
{\an8}It was a fact that
when you did that,

302
00:15:36,700 --> 00:15:38,509
{\an7}people's lives were destroyed.

303
00:15:38,533 --> 00:15:40,009
{\an1}-You're a red, ain't ya?

304
00:15:40,033 --> 00:15:41,876
-They said,
"You'd better cooperate

305
00:15:41,900 --> 00:15:42,877
if you know
what's good for you."

306
00:15:42,901 --> 00:15:44,942
I said,
"Are you threatening me?"

307
00:15:44,966 --> 00:15:45,976
{\an1}He said, "I'm just telling you

308
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:47,576
what you should
pay attention to."

309
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:48,809
-'Cause the minute
you get out of line

310
00:15:48,833 --> 00:15:51,442
and start pulling
any of that radical stuff,

311
00:15:51,466 --> 00:15:54,209
you know what's going
to happen to you, don't you?

312
00:15:54,233 --> 00:15:59,142
{\an1}-I was really scared because
we had just had Miranda

313
00:15:59,166 --> 00:16:02,042
{\an1}and I didn't know how we were
going to make a living,

314
00:16:02,066 --> 00:16:04,433
you know,
if we were both blacklisted.

315
00:16:06,233 --> 00:16:08,576
{\an8}♪♪

316
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,709
{\an7}-"I am asking you as a result
of your statement,

317
00:16:12,733 --> 00:16:16,042
{\an1}if communism is not subversive
and is not a threat

318
00:16:16,066 --> 00:16:19,409
{\an1}to our form of government
and the American way of life,

319
00:16:19,433 --> 00:16:22,642
{\an1}then what harm does it do
to reveal the names of people

320
00:16:22,666 --> 00:16:25,442
{\an1}who are active members
of the Communist Party

321
00:16:25,466 --> 00:16:28,742
if that is true?"

322
00:16:28,766 --> 00:16:31,242
{\an1}Joseph Papp's answer...

323
00:16:31,266 --> 00:16:34,909
{\an1}"Representative Moulder,
you know

324
00:16:34,933 --> 00:16:38,342
{\an1}there is a blacklisting device
in the industry

325
00:16:38,366 --> 00:16:40,842
{\an7}and the naming of people
this way

326
00:16:40,866 --> 00:16:45,442
{\an7}does deny these people
the right to work,

327
00:16:45,466 --> 00:16:47,242
{\an8}which I think

328
00:16:47,266 --> 00:16:49,876
{\an8}is terribly unfair

329
00:16:49,900 --> 00:16:53,142
{\an8}and un-American."

330
00:16:53,166 --> 00:16:58,176
{\an1}-Joe was working at CBS
as a stage manager.

331
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,576
-That same evening,
I walked into the CBS studio

332
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,266
{\an1}and they fired me because
I took the Fifth Amendment.

333
00:17:06,766 --> 00:17:09,476
{\an1}-He came home and said,
"I'm going to fight it."

334
00:17:09,500 --> 00:17:12,109
{\an1}And I said, "Joe, I mean,
how can you fight it?

335
00:17:12,133 --> 00:17:13,576
{\an1}I mean, you can't fight CBS.

336
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,642
{\an1}You can't fight, you know,
the whole political situation."

337
00:17:16,666 --> 00:17:18,076
{\an1}He says, "Yeah, I am."

338
00:17:18,100 --> 00:17:20,876
{\an1}He says, "I'm going to get
the union to arbitrate it.

339
00:17:20,900 --> 00:17:23,209
{\an1}I'm going to get my job back."

340
00:17:23,233 --> 00:17:25,476
{\an1}And I thought, well, you know,
that's really impossible.

341
00:17:25,500 --> 00:17:29,409
{\an1}I mean, that's like David
fighting Goliath.

342
00:17:29,433 --> 00:17:31,909
{\an1}But Joe did fight giants,

343
00:17:31,933 --> 00:17:34,609
and he generally won.

344
00:17:34,633 --> 00:17:36,042
{\an1}He certainly won that,

345
00:17:36,066 --> 00:17:40,276
{\an1}because CBS a year later
gave him his job back.

346
00:17:40,300 --> 00:17:43,600
{\an1}He didn't take it, but
they offered him his job back.

347
00:17:47,366 --> 00:17:49,642
{\an1}-Once more unto the breach.

348
00:17:49,666 --> 00:17:52,309
{\an1}Dear friends, once more!

349
00:17:52,333 --> 00:17:55,142
{\an1}Peace, there's nothing
so becomes a man

350
00:17:55,166 --> 00:17:58,576
as modest stillness
and humility;

351
00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,042
{\an1}but when the blast of war
blows in our ears,

352
00:18:02,066 --> 00:18:05,042
then imitate
the action of the tiger;

353
00:18:05,066 --> 00:18:08,142
stiffen the sinews,
summon up the blood,

354
00:18:08,166 --> 00:18:11,933
disguise fair nature
with hard-favor'd rage.

355
00:18:16,633 --> 00:18:19,342
{\an8}-At the end of 1958,

356
00:18:19,366 --> 00:18:21,609
{\an7}the Commissioner of Parks
of the city of New York

357
00:18:21,633 --> 00:18:24,342
{\an7}attempted to impose upon
the Shakespeare Festival

358
00:18:24,366 --> 00:18:27,709
{\an7}the requirement that admission
be charged to free Shakespeare.

359
00:18:27,733 --> 00:18:30,876
{\an1}-He insisted that unless
we charge admission,

360
00:18:30,900 --> 00:18:32,409
{\an1}we would have to leave.

361
00:18:32,433 --> 00:18:34,709
{\an1}He's quite powerful, this man.

362
00:18:34,733 --> 00:18:38,109
-Robert Moses...
Love him or hate him,

363
00:18:38,133 --> 00:18:40,509
{\an1}the single most important
individual force

364
00:18:40,533 --> 00:18:43,009
{\an1}in the history of the state
and city of New York.

365
00:18:43,033 --> 00:18:47,076
{\an1}-Robert Moses built roads
and parks and bridges.

366
00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:49,309
{\an1}He was a giant of a person,

367
00:18:49,333 --> 00:18:54,376
{\an1}both physically and in terms
of the reach that he had.

368
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:55,809
{\an1}-For nearly half a century,

369
00:18:55,833 --> 00:18:58,776
{\an1}this man has pushed people
around New York.

370
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,376
{\an1}Almost anybody who is anybody
has cursed him, fought him,

371
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,209
{\an1}knuckled under to him,
and admired him.

372
00:19:05,233 --> 00:19:08,309
{\an1}-Joe refused to knuckle under
to Moses' demand.

373
00:19:08,333 --> 00:19:11,642
{\an8}♪♪

374
00:19:11,666 --> 00:19:13,609
{\an1}-I felt it was absolutely
essential that in order

375
00:19:13,633 --> 00:19:16,376
{\an1}to attract an audience
that represented all groups,

376
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,276
{\an1}regardless of their ability
to pay,

377
00:19:18,300 --> 00:19:21,876
{\an1}and even those that could pay,
to get them into the theater,

378
00:19:21,900 --> 00:19:27,109
{\an1}to give them an experience with
a living play and Shakespeare,

379
00:19:27,133 --> 00:19:30,109
I felt even a quarter
would be too much.

380
00:19:30,133 --> 00:19:32,742
I feel there are
public libraries that are free.

381
00:19:32,766 --> 00:19:34,042
I feel a city
the size of New York

382
00:19:34,066 --> 00:19:36,276
{\an1}should have a public theater.

383
00:19:36,300 --> 00:19:39,976
{\an1}-I had the opinion that if
they were going to give theater

384
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:41,476
in the parks,
that they ought to pay

385
00:19:41,500 --> 00:19:44,742
the actors the same
as all other actors are paid,

386
00:19:44,766 --> 00:19:47,342
not get some fellow
driving a taxicab

387
00:19:47,366 --> 00:19:51,076
{\an1}and give him $18 a week
to play Hamlet.

388
00:19:51,100 --> 00:19:53,909
{\an1}I thought then and still think
that's the only basis,

389
00:19:53,933 --> 00:19:56,209
and that's the way
it's going to end up.

390
00:19:56,233 --> 00:19:59,009
{\an1}And when it ends up that way,
they'll have to charge

391
00:19:59,033 --> 00:20:01,776
{\an1}because that's the only way
you can get money.

392
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,409
{\an1}-Most courage comes out of fear,
I'll tell you that.

393
00:20:04,433 --> 00:20:06,909
{\an1}You're fighting to stay alive.

394
00:20:06,933 --> 00:20:09,009
{\an1}-I never saw him back down
to anybody...

395
00:20:09,033 --> 00:20:13,676
{\an1}anybody... for size or shape
or power on any level.

396
00:20:13,700 --> 00:20:17,376
Physical, political.
He never, ever backed down.

397
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,376
{\an1}-He was kind of an art Rocky.

398
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:20,709
{\an8}You wanted to cheer
when he got up

399
00:20:20,733 --> 00:20:22,342
{\an7}and went and screamed for money

400
00:20:22,366 --> 00:20:23,909
{\an7}or when he fought Robert Moses.

401
00:20:23,933 --> 00:20:25,409
-There was something,
I think, too,

402
00:20:25,433 --> 00:20:27,509
that he loved
about the struggle,

403
00:20:27,533 --> 00:20:30,542
{\an1}loved about the scrabbling.

404
00:20:30,566 --> 00:20:33,642
It didn't mean much
if it all came easy.

405
00:20:33,666 --> 00:20:37,909
{\an1}It didn't mean much if
there wasn't a fight involved.

406
00:20:37,933 --> 00:20:40,776
-It was a true
David and Goliath fight,

407
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,876
{\an1}and Joe played the part of David
to the nines.

408
00:20:43,900 --> 00:20:51,900
{\an8}♪♪

409
00:20:55,866 --> 00:20:59,642
{\an1}-Moses was saying that the
people were trampling the grass.

410
00:20:59,666 --> 00:21:00,776
You know what he got?

411
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,909
People kept
sending him grass seed.

412
00:21:03,933 --> 00:21:07,109
{\an1}-Hundreds of New Yorkers
sent in grass seed,

413
00:21:07,133 --> 00:21:11,509
saying, "Here,
you can plant the grass."

414
00:21:11,533 --> 00:21:15,309
-I was nobody,
and he was a big shot.

415
00:21:15,333 --> 00:21:18,376
{\an1}He probably found it intolerable
that there's this young punk

416
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:23,609
{\an1}coming along and arousing
so much feeling against him.

417
00:21:23,633 --> 00:21:25,009
-What about
the Shakespeare Festival?

418
00:21:25,033 --> 00:21:26,409
Will it go on free?

419
00:21:26,433 --> 00:21:28,409
{\an1}-I don't have anything to say
about it at all.

420
00:21:28,433 --> 00:21:30,376
{\an1}-Did you change your mind
on it, sir?

421
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,209
-No.

422
00:21:32,233 --> 00:21:35,766
{\an1}- It's still not free, then?
- I have nothing to say at all.

423
00:21:37,500 --> 00:21:39,976
{\an1}-And then Moses pulled
all the stops

424
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,142
{\an1}to leak word to the press
that Joe had been a communist.

425
00:21:43,166 --> 00:21:44,909
Not only would he not
charge admission

426
00:21:44,933 --> 00:21:46,676
to see Shakespeare
in Central Park,

427
00:21:46,700 --> 00:21:48,409
{\an1}but he was a communist to boot.

428
00:21:48,433 --> 00:21:56,009
{\an8}♪♪

429
00:21:56,033 --> 00:21:57,709
{\an1}-Finally, we took it to court.

430
00:21:57,733 --> 00:21:59,642
{\an7}We lost in lower courts,

431
00:21:59,666 --> 00:22:00,776
{\an8}but we won it

432
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:02,642
{\an7}in the Court of Appeals.

433
00:22:02,666 --> 00:22:04,876
{\an7}We won it five to nothing.

434
00:22:04,900 --> 00:22:07,542
{\an7}The chief justice said
that the parks commissioner

435
00:22:07,566 --> 00:22:10,776
{\an7}was "arbitrary, capricious,
and unreasonable."

436
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:18,800
{\an8}♪♪

437
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,376
When I went out there
that opening night,

438
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:23,609
the place was packed.

439
00:22:23,633 --> 00:22:25,776
Every seat was full.

440
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,576
{\an1}I said, "Ladies and gentlemen."

441
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:29,976
I couldn't get
any further than that.

442
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,009
A roar. A roar!

443
00:22:32,033 --> 00:22:34,376
{\an1}I mean, you never heard
such a sound in your life.

444
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:35,709
I just stood there,

445
00:22:35,733 --> 00:22:36,876
let it wash over me.

446
00:22:36,900 --> 00:22:42,676
{\an1}[ Cheers and applause ]

447
00:22:42,700 --> 00:22:45,109
{\an1}They felt it was their triumph.

448
00:22:45,133 --> 00:22:46,933
The people won.

449
00:22:52,366 --> 00:22:56,709
{\an8}♪♪

450
00:22:56,733 --> 00:22:58,209
{\an1}-Well, Mr. Papp, next year,

451
00:22:58,233 --> 00:23:00,542
{\an1}you'll be in your new home
at 81st Street.

452
00:23:00,566 --> 00:23:01,809
-Right.
It'll be an amphitheater

453
00:23:01,833 --> 00:23:04,876
seating 2,500 people
and very comfortable seats.

454
00:23:04,900 --> 00:23:12,276
{\an8}♪♪

455
00:23:12,300 --> 00:23:14,409
{\an1}-The Delacorte Theater
opened barely in time

456
00:23:14,433 --> 00:23:18,209
{\an1}for that first performance
of "The Merchant of Venice."

457
00:23:18,233 --> 00:23:19,809
{\an1}-Joe said, "You know, I cast

458
00:23:19,833 --> 00:23:23,076
this unknown actor
in this part."

459
00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:24,842
{\an1}-He's one of the actors
that came in off the street,

460
00:23:24,866 --> 00:23:26,209
so to speak.

461
00:23:26,233 --> 00:23:28,076
{\an1}His voice was very gravelly.

462
00:23:28,100 --> 00:23:29,876
{\an1}I wanted a better voice.

463
00:23:29,900 --> 00:23:32,900
I finally decided,
"Well, let's cast him."

464
00:23:34,366 --> 00:23:37,633
-If you prick us,
do we not bleed?

465
00:23:39,333 --> 00:23:41,966
{\an8}If you tickle us,
do we not laugh?

466
00:23:43,433 --> 00:23:45,709
{\an8}If you poison us...

467
00:23:45,733 --> 00:23:47,866
do we not die?

468
00:23:49,266 --> 00:23:50,976
And...

469
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,876
if you wrong us,

470
00:23:53,900 --> 00:23:57,076
shall we not revenge?

471
00:23:57,100 --> 00:23:58,176
{\an1}-Joe must have thought,

472
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,276
"We haven't done
'Merchant of Venice' ever,

473
00:24:00,300 --> 00:24:02,642
{\an1}and we should do a play
we haven't done before,

474
00:24:02,666 --> 00:24:03,809
{\an1}and we've got George Scott.

475
00:24:03,833 --> 00:24:05,409
'Merchant of Venice, '
and I'll direct it.

476
00:24:05,433 --> 00:24:07,109
{\an1}What could be better?"

477
00:24:07,133 --> 00:24:09,142
-But then the [bleep]
hit the fan.

478
00:24:09,166 --> 00:24:13,076
{\an8}♪♪

479
00:24:13,100 --> 00:24:14,309
{\an8}-But the New York
Board of Rabbis

480
00:24:14,333 --> 00:24:15,409
{\an8}believed that
"The Merchant of Venice"

481
00:24:15,433 --> 00:24:17,409
{\an7}was an anti-Semitic play,

482
00:24:17,433 --> 00:24:22,676
{\an7}that presenting a Jew such as
Shylock debases Jews.

483
00:24:22,700 --> 00:24:23,776
{\an1}-I never thought of the play

484
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:24,610
{\an1}as being anti-Semitic.

485
00:24:24,634 --> 00:24:26,342
{\an1}It never entered my mind.

486
00:24:26,366 --> 00:24:28,676
{\an1}I just considered this an
important play of Shakespeare's

487
00:24:28,700 --> 00:24:30,309
{\an1}and had a marvelous actor
to play this role,

488
00:24:30,333 --> 00:24:32,209
which I thought was
one of the great acting roles.

489
00:24:32,233 --> 00:24:34,309
{\an1}And I was totally unaware

490
00:24:34,333 --> 00:24:36,809
that there'd even be
an objection to this play.

491
00:24:36,833 --> 00:24:41,609
{\an1}-This was just Joe's instinctual
drive towards trouble.

492
00:24:41,633 --> 00:24:47,476
{\an1}Joe searched out trouble the way
divining rods search out water.

493
00:24:47,500 --> 00:24:50,076
-Joe was getting
so much criticism

494
00:24:50,100 --> 00:24:52,242
{\an1}that he finally said something

495
00:24:52,266 --> 00:24:55,576
{\an1}that absolutely changed
everything.

496
00:24:55,600 --> 00:25:00,542
{\an8}♪♪

497
00:25:00,566 --> 00:25:02,466
-I am a Jew.

498
00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:06,009
Hath not a Jew eyes?

499
00:25:06,033 --> 00:25:08,442
Hath not a Jew hands,

500
00:25:08,466 --> 00:25:11,876
organs, dimensions,
senses, affections?

501
00:25:11,900 --> 00:25:15,576
{\an1}-To our amazement, Joe said,
"I myself am a Jew."

502
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:20,242
{\an1}-Fed with the same food,
hurt with the same weapons.

503
00:25:20,266 --> 00:25:22,342
-And he said,
"I would do nothing

504
00:25:22,366 --> 00:25:25,000
that, in my opinion,
would harm my people."

505
00:25:27,166 --> 00:25:32,709
You must understand,
nobody knew that Joe was Jewish.

506
00:25:32,733 --> 00:25:36,476
{\an1}We were best friends and very,
very thick and very close,

507
00:25:36,500 --> 00:25:36,500
- and<i>
- I</i>

508
00:25:36,500 --> 00:25:37,866
Didn't know.

509
00:25:39,533 --> 00:25:43,733
{\an1}Joe had escaped his past
for nearly 30 years.

510
00:25:45,900 --> 00:25:47,442
{\an1}"The Merchant of Venice"
did go on,

511
00:25:47,466 --> 00:25:52,776
{\an1}and the humanity of George
as Shylock was profound.

512
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,342
{\an1}But the most important
consequence of all this

513
00:25:55,366 --> 00:25:58,766
{\an1}was that Joe finally admitted
that he was Jewish.

514
00:26:00,966 --> 00:26:08,966
{\an8}♪♪

515
00:26:15,066 --> 00:26:19,042
{\an1}-Years after we got married,
he was going out to Brooklyn

516
00:26:19,066 --> 00:26:21,642
and he left me
a telephone number.

517
00:26:21,666 --> 00:26:24,176
{\an1}I had to get in touch with him,

518
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:29,076
and a woman answered
with very broken English.

519
00:26:29,100 --> 00:26:32,333
I suddenly realized
that this was his mother.

520
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,176
He always said that
his mother was English

521
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,933
{\an1}and that his father was Polish.

522
00:26:41,900 --> 00:26:45,542
And then he told me
the whole story.

523
00:26:45,566 --> 00:26:48,533
He started life as
Joseph Papirofsky.

524
00:26:50,666 --> 00:26:53,609
{\an1}-My father and mother both
had come from Eastern Europe...

525
00:26:53,633 --> 00:26:57,442
{\an1}my father from Poland,
my mother from Lithuania.

526
00:26:57,466 --> 00:27:01,509
And she was working
at a sweatshop here in New York.

527
00:27:01,533 --> 00:27:04,966
She was a...
a garment worker.

528
00:27:07,233 --> 00:27:10,309
It's hard for me now
to recapture my feelings.

529
00:27:10,333 --> 00:27:13,376
{\an1}It would be so... painful.

530
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,642
What I've experienced
more than anything else,

531
00:27:15,666 --> 00:27:20,442
more than poverty,
is anti-Semitism.

532
00:27:20,466 --> 00:27:24,866
{\an1}It is skin-deep scratches,
and a lot of it will come out.

533
00:27:27,033 --> 00:27:29,909
My father would pray
every morning and every night.

534
00:27:29,933 --> 00:27:34,242
{\an1}His Jewishness was as natural
to him as eating and drinking.

535
00:27:34,266 --> 00:27:38,042
{\an1}There was a small storefront
shul on the block, very poor,

536
00:27:38,066 --> 00:27:39,409
{\an1}and I would go to that.

537
00:27:39,433 --> 00:27:41,909
{\an1}My father would take me
with him early in the morning.

538
00:27:41,933 --> 00:27:43,109
{\an1}My father lost his job

539
00:27:43,133 --> 00:27:45,309
{\an1}just around the beginning
of the Depression.

540
00:27:45,333 --> 00:27:47,042
He started looking
for work every day.

541
00:27:47,066 --> 00:27:49,176
{\an1}Couldn't find anything.

542
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,176
They looked to me
to do something.

543
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,509
{\an1}I'd do all sorts of odd jobs.

544
00:27:54,533 --> 00:27:58,676
{\an1}Sold peanuts in front of
Botanic Garden.

545
00:27:58,700 --> 00:28:00,566
{\an1}I shined shoes for a while.

546
00:28:02,666 --> 00:28:05,642
{\an1}In fact, my father took over
my shoe-shining job

547
00:28:05,666 --> 00:28:07,733
after I left.

548
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:15,242
{\an1}-Joe saw his father humiliated
because he couldn't get a job

549
00:28:15,266 --> 00:28:18,042
{\an1}and people would treat him
very badly.

550
00:28:18,066 --> 00:28:20,342
{\an1}You look to your parents
to protect you.

551
00:28:20,366 --> 00:28:24,376
But Joe, his parents
couldn't protect him.

552
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,242
When he was 14
and trying to get a job,

553
00:28:27,266 --> 00:28:31,209
{\an1}he wasn't able to get a job
if he said he was Jewish.

554
00:28:31,233 --> 00:28:34,376
{\an1}So that's when he first began
denying he was Jewish.

555
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,442
{\an1}And if you tell one lie,
it leads to another,

556
00:28:37,466 --> 00:28:39,376
and pretty soon
you have to cover up,

557
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,976
you know,
your identity to everyone.

558
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,809
-I think he was
a Gatsby-like American.

559
00:28:47,833 --> 00:28:50,709
{\an1}You know, an American who
simply bursts onto the scene,

560
00:28:50,733 --> 00:28:55,442
has no past,
man in a hurry, going somewhere.

561
00:28:55,466 --> 00:28:57,909
{\an1}-The whole idea of being part
of a minority

562
00:28:57,933 --> 00:28:59,109
and not being able
to speak a language

563
00:28:59,133 --> 00:29:00,909
and your parents
don't speak English,

564
00:29:00,933 --> 00:29:05,076
{\an1}I was embarrassed and ashamed
to invite anybody to my house.

565
00:29:05,100 --> 00:29:07,542
{\an1}I remember being invited
to somebody's house,

566
00:29:07,566 --> 00:29:09,309
{\an1}and the mother spoke English.

567
00:29:09,333 --> 00:29:10,709
She said, "Come in.
How are you?"

568
00:29:10,733 --> 00:29:11,809
That sort of thing.

569
00:29:11,833 --> 00:29:14,742
I knew my mother
couldn't say that.

570
00:29:14,766 --> 00:29:16,976
{\an1}-Because his childhood
started with Yiddish,

571
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,976
{\an1}I think Shakespeare was a way
into the American language,

572
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,442
{\an1}into the English language.

573
00:29:21,466 --> 00:29:25,876
{\an7}-Initially, the effort is to
feel that you're part of America

574
00:29:25,900 --> 00:29:28,576
{\an7}and you think that you have to
do that by separating yourself

575
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,376
{\an7}from your ethnic group.

576
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,809
{\an7}And then when some measure

577
00:29:32,833 --> 00:29:35,542
{\an8}of accomplishment
and acceptance comes,

578
00:29:35,566 --> 00:29:40,276
{\an7}you begin to understand where
your authenticity comes from.

579
00:29:40,300 --> 00:29:41,542
{\an7}What voices do you hear?

580
00:29:41,566 --> 00:29:42,343
{\an8}What music?

581
00:29:42,367 --> 00:29:43,942
{\an7}What rhythms do you hear?

582
00:29:43,966 --> 00:29:46,009
{\an7}That I know was true for Joe.

583
00:29:46,033 --> 00:29:51,100
{\an8}♪♪

584
00:29:53,033 --> 00:29:57,176
{\an7}-What a piece of work is a man,

585
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,309
{\an8}how noble in reason,

586
00:29:59,333 --> 00:30:03,109
{\an1}how infinite in faculties,
in form and moving

587
00:30:03,133 --> 00:30:06,009
{\an1}how express and admirable,

588
00:30:06,033 --> 00:30:07,642
{\an1}in action how like an angel,

589
00:30:07,666 --> 00:30:10,442
{\an1}in apprehension how like a god,

590
00:30:10,466 --> 00:30:14,976
{\an1}the beauty of the world,
the paragon of animals.

591
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,409
And yet to me,

592
00:30:18,433 --> 00:30:21,566
what is this
quintessence of dust?

593
00:30:23,033 --> 00:30:25,366
Man delights not me.

594
00:30:29,166 --> 00:30:33,642
{\an1}-He was more interested in
possibility than in achievement.

595
00:30:33,666 --> 00:30:36,242
{\an1}He was always interested
in where things were going,

596
00:30:36,266 --> 00:30:39,976
{\an1}not where they had been.

597
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,109
{\an1}When Joe's juices really flowed

598
00:30:43,133 --> 00:30:46,366
{\an1}were when something was
half finished, open.

599
00:30:48,333 --> 00:30:51,109
{\an1}The minute it was clear
where it was going

600
00:30:51,133 --> 00:30:54,933
{\an1}and what it was going to be,
he became bored.

601
00:30:57,533 --> 00:31:00,742
{\an8}♪♪

602
00:31:00,766 --> 00:31:04,142
-The desire to have
a year-round theater

603
00:31:04,166 --> 00:31:06,209
{\an1}was a growing impulse.

604
00:31:06,233 --> 00:31:10,242
And so by about 1965,
we started looking for a place

605
00:31:10,266 --> 00:31:12,766
where we might make
a permanent theater.

606
00:31:15,666 --> 00:31:19,409
{\an1}-When I came into that building,
it was in ruins.

607
00:31:19,433 --> 00:31:21,100
It was falling apart.

608
00:31:23,766 --> 00:31:26,176
{\an1}And I saw these little rooms
where they housed these people

609
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,809
{\an1}and these little cradles
for children.

610
00:31:28,833 --> 00:31:32,676
-Cots and mattresses,
baby shoes.

611
00:31:32,700 --> 00:31:36,042
{\an1}-And these two kitchens they had
there, kosher kitchens.

612
00:31:36,066 --> 00:31:39,609
{\an1}-It was just... It was like
it'd been arrested in time.

613
00:31:39,633 --> 00:31:44,276
-And then endless
files of names.

614
00:31:44,300 --> 00:31:46,642
{\an1}-For thousands and thousands
of Jewish immigrants,

615
00:31:46,666 --> 00:31:50,776
{\an1}this was their first home,
including my Grandpa Max.

616
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,542
{\an1}You can still see the letters
on the side of the building.

617
00:31:54,566 --> 00:31:58,076
HIAS... The Hebrew
Immigrant Aid Society.

618
00:31:58,100 --> 00:31:59,776
{\an1}-The first free public library
in New York,

619
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:01,876
{\an1}but it had been converted into

620
00:32:01,900 --> 00:32:05,776
{\an1}a place for homeless Jews
after World War II.

621
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,209
-I felt in the walls
there was a story

622
00:32:09,233 --> 00:32:12,276
and our theater would
reflect it some way.

623
00:32:12,300 --> 00:32:14,976
-He talked about
what this building had been

624
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:19,176
{\an7}and what that meant to him.

625
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,676
{\an1}And he was going to do
the things that he felt

626
00:32:22,700 --> 00:32:27,342
{\an1}were important in our lives
in this building.

627
00:32:27,366 --> 00:32:29,942
{\an1}-This was a huge undertaking.

628
00:32:29,966 --> 00:32:32,876
He wanted to bring in
new American playwrights

629
00:32:32,900 --> 00:32:34,276
and give them a home.

630
00:32:34,300 --> 00:32:36,709
{\an8}♪♪

631
00:32:36,733 --> 00:32:38,109
[ Cymbal clangs ]

632
00:32:38,133 --> 00:32:43,242
{\an8}♪♪

633
00:32:43,266 --> 00:32:46,842
The first play was
just pure serendipity.

634
00:32:46,866 --> 00:32:50,476
-♪ Doors locked ♪

635
00:32:50,500 --> 00:32:52,609
{\an1}-He met one of the authors
on a train.

636
00:32:52,633 --> 00:32:54,176
The next day,
he walks in the office

637
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,442
{\an1}saying this strange title.

638
00:32:56,466 --> 00:32:59,109
-♪ Blinds pulled ♪

639
00:32:59,133 --> 00:33:02,576
-He had five or six
scruffy pages of a scene

640
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,309
{\an1}that dealt with young people
having to face the problem

641
00:33:05,333 --> 00:33:08,109
{\an1}of war and loneliness.

642
00:33:08,133 --> 00:33:09,576
{\an1}-During the Vietnam War,

643
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,609
{\an1}the hippies were all around
the theater at that time.

644
00:33:11,633 --> 00:33:13,642
{\an1}I had a tremendous feeling
of responsibility

645
00:33:13,666 --> 00:33:17,942
for young people,
to protect them.

646
00:33:17,966 --> 00:33:19,376
-The war was raging,

647
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,809
and there were
huge protests in the streets,

648
00:33:21,833 --> 00:33:23,776
{\an1}and we wanted to bring that
to the stage

649
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,742
so people
would really understand,

650
00:33:26,766 --> 00:33:28,842
really feel what
we were feeling.

651
00:33:28,866 --> 00:33:32,109
{\an8}♪♪

652
00:33:32,133 --> 00:33:34,809
{\an1}-I came down to audition for it,
and I came home

653
00:33:34,833 --> 00:33:37,076
{\an1}and put it on the table,
and my wife said,

654
00:33:37,100 --> 00:33:39,242
{\an8}"What is that thing?"
I said, "That is going to be

655
00:33:39,266 --> 00:33:42,509
{\an7}the biggest hit in the history
of the American theater."

656
00:33:42,533 --> 00:33:48,109
-♪ When the moon
is in the 7th house ♪

657
00:33:48,133 --> 00:33:52,909
{\an1}♪ And Jupiter aligns with Mars ♪

658
00:33:52,933 --> 00:33:57,509
♪ Then peace
will guide the planets ♪

659
00:33:57,533 --> 00:34:00,742
♪ And love
will steer the stars ♪

660
00:34:00,766 --> 00:34:05,276
{\an1}-♪ This is the dawning of
the Age of Aquarius ♪

661
00:34:05,300 --> 00:34:07,076
{\an1}♪ The Age of Aquarius ♪

662
00:34:07,100 --> 00:34:09,209
{\an1}-There was a lot of chaos.

663
00:34:09,233 --> 00:34:12,642
{\an1}-♪ Let it fly in the breeze
and get caught in the trees ♪

664
00:34:12,666 --> 00:34:16,409
{\an1}♪ Give a home to the fleas
in my hair ♪

665
00:34:16,433 --> 00:34:19,176
-We were trying to go
for a new form,

666
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:20,809
an experimental form.

667
00:34:20,833 --> 00:34:25,876
{\an1}-♪ We starve, look at one
another short of breath ♪

668
00:34:25,900 --> 00:34:32,176
{\an1}-It had a freedom to it
that no musical had ever dared.

669
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:38,742
{\an1}-This was really so against
the traditional view of things.

670
00:34:38,766 --> 00:34:42,542
It pulled a grenade
and lobbed it in.

671
00:34:42,566 --> 00:34:45,942
{\an1}-♪ Let the sun shine ♪

672
00:34:45,966 --> 00:34:49,709
{\an1}♪ Let the sun shine in ♪

673
00:34:49,733 --> 00:34:52,442
{\an1}-It enraged so many people,

674
00:34:52,466 --> 00:34:55,909
{\an1}both critics and public,
who said, "We didn't come

675
00:34:55,933 --> 00:34:57,709
to the New York
Shakespeare Festival

676
00:34:57,733 --> 00:35:02,176
{\an1}to see and hear travesties
such as 'Hair.'"

677
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,476
{\an1}And everybody gave up on "Hair"
except one person,

678
00:35:05,500 --> 00:35:08,742
{\an1}and he resuscitated "Hair"
on Broadway.

679
00:35:08,766 --> 00:35:12,076
{\an1}-Joe hated Broadway because
it was about money

680
00:35:12,100 --> 00:35:13,676
and not about work.

681
00:35:13,700 --> 00:35:15,509
-Joe said, "Broadway is [bleep]"

682
00:35:15,533 --> 00:35:17,309
{\an1}-You have to understand,

683
00:35:17,333 --> 00:35:20,209
{\an8}Joe was growing
as he did things.

684
00:35:20,233 --> 00:35:22,376
{\an7}He didn't know everything
at the outset.

685
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,276
{\an1}-♪ Let the sun shine ♪

686
00:35:26,300 --> 00:35:29,609
{\an1}♪ Let the sun shine in ♪

687
00:35:29,633 --> 00:35:32,676
{\an8}♪♪

688
00:35:32,700 --> 00:35:38,009
{\an8}-♪ Ripped open
by metal explosion ♪

689
00:35:38,033 --> 00:35:41,676
-This was a time when
the country was coming asunder

690
00:35:41,700 --> 00:35:46,676
{\an1}and the spirit of our country
was at risk of being destroyed.

691
00:35:46,700 --> 00:35:48,309
-People were dying.

692
00:35:48,333 --> 00:35:50,909
We were in a struggle
to save our lives

693
00:35:50,933 --> 00:35:53,309
{\an1}and the lives of the communities
that we came from.

694
00:35:53,333 --> 00:35:56,542
And our work had
to reflect that urgency.

695
00:35:56,566 --> 00:35:59,642
{\an8}♪♪

696
00:35:59,666 --> 00:36:02,009
-The theater is alive
when it's attached

697
00:36:02,033 --> 00:36:04,442
to what's going on
outside of it.

698
00:36:04,466 --> 00:36:05,976
{\an1}So it's always the interaction
of these two

699
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:07,709
{\an1}that are of interest to me.

700
00:36:07,733 --> 00:36:11,909
{\an1}-♪ Mail-order rifles ♪

701
00:36:11,933 --> 00:36:14,109
♪ Shoot the muscles ♪

702
00:36:14,133 --> 00:36:16,742
{\an1}-There was an overt interest

703
00:36:16,766 --> 00:36:19,709
{\an8}in political issues,

704
00:36:19,733 --> 00:36:21,309
{\an8}but not in polemic.

705
00:36:21,333 --> 00:36:25,409
{\an7}-♪ 256 Viet Cong captured ♪

706
00:36:25,433 --> 00:36:28,709
{\an8}-I ain't been
out of the house...

707
00:36:28,733 --> 00:36:31,000
{\an7}in more than three months.

708
00:36:33,866 --> 00:36:37,642
{\an1}Not because I've been that busy.

709
00:36:37,666 --> 00:36:39,400
{\an1}I've just been scared.

710
00:36:42,733 --> 00:36:43,766
[ Scoffs ]

711
00:36:45,566 --> 00:36:48,542
{\an1}But don't let me give you
the impression

712
00:36:48,566 --> 00:36:51,809
that I'm still
hung up on all that...

713
00:36:51,833 --> 00:36:53,476
What do you call it?

714
00:36:53,500 --> 00:36:57,042
{\an1}[ Scoffs ] Negro self-pity

715
00:36:57,066 --> 00:37:01,742
{\an1}or even that old "You owe me,
whitey" party line.

716
00:37:01,766 --> 00:37:03,509
'Cause I ain't.

717
00:37:03,533 --> 00:37:08,176
{\an1}-Joe had this tremendous
sympathy for the underdog.

718
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,209
{\an1}And this is why, you know,
dogs like me

719
00:37:10,233 --> 00:37:14,542
{\an7}and all other underdogs kind of,
you know, went to him

720
00:37:14,566 --> 00:37:16,342
{\an7}because he was on my side.

721
00:37:16,366 --> 00:37:17,709
{\an8}He was on our side.

722
00:37:17,733 --> 00:37:18,976
{\an7}-The first plays I did was Joe

723
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:23,509
{\an7}were written out of my own
experience in Vietnam.

724
00:37:23,533 --> 00:37:29,209
{\an8}-♪ Ripped open
by metal explosion ♪

725
00:37:29,233 --> 00:37:32,476
{\an1}♪ Caught in barbed wire ♪

726
00:37:32,500 --> 00:37:35,109
{\an1}♪ Fireball, bullet shock ♪

727
00:37:35,133 --> 00:37:38,276
{\an1}-Often my plays were about
people who are marginalized.

728
00:37:38,300 --> 00:37:41,609
{\an1}And I think Joe actually felt
that way himself

729
00:37:41,633 --> 00:37:44,742
{\an1}and probably did all his life
as a kind of outsider.

730
00:37:44,766 --> 00:37:48,009
He was always looking
to challenge the status quo,

731
00:37:48,033 --> 00:37:50,776
{\an1}and he didn't really want
to be taken in.

732
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,576
He wanted to kind of
just challenge it.

733
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,842
-[ Knocking ]

734
00:37:55,866 --> 00:37:59,376
{\an1}-I understood the feelings
that went into these plays.

735
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,142
{\an1}They aroused my own feelings
about injustice,

736
00:38:02,166 --> 00:38:06,242
the terror of life,
the terror of war.

737
00:38:06,266 --> 00:38:07,609
{\an1}David brought in a turn

738
00:38:07,633 --> 00:38:10,009
{\an1}and a shadow of something
very deep in him,

739
00:38:10,033 --> 00:38:11,976
{\an1}almost primitive, I would say.

740
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,809
{\an1}And I became so connected
with his plays that I felt

741
00:38:14,833 --> 00:38:17,542
{\an1}that I would protect them
from anything.

742
00:38:17,566 --> 00:38:20,442
{\an1}-Earlier, I couldn't get anyone
to do the plays,

743
00:38:20,466 --> 00:38:22,376
{\an1}and to go suddenly now
to this step

744
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,676
{\an1}where there was a guy saying,
you know,

745
00:38:24,700 --> 00:38:28,042
{\an1}"Anything you write, I'll do,"
it was miraculous.

746
00:38:28,066 --> 00:38:32,809
{\an1}-I had developed what has now
become a famous cult opera

747
00:38:32,833 --> 00:38:34,209
called "The Knife."

748
00:38:34,233 --> 00:38:36,342
{\an1}Joe said, "You've got to come
upstairs,

749
00:38:36,366 --> 00:38:38,009
{\an1}and I've got to read you
the review

750
00:38:38,033 --> 00:38:39,909
{\an1}in
<i>The New York Times."</i>

751
00:38:39,933 --> 00:38:42,942
And it was about
the most contemptuous,

752
00:38:42,966 --> 00:38:47,642
the most dismissive,
and the most foolish review

753
00:38:47,666 --> 00:38:51,142
{\an1}I've just about ever read
by Frank Rich.

754
00:38:51,166 --> 00:38:56,442
{\an1}And at the end of it, Joe put it
to one side, and he said,

755
00:38:56,466 --> 00:38:59,909
{\an1}"That is not what I call
a good review,"

756
00:38:59,933 --> 00:39:03,342
and everybody
in the room laughed.

757
00:39:03,366 --> 00:39:06,742
{\an1}And then he turned to me
and said,

758
00:39:06,766 --> 00:39:09,500
{\an1}"What do you want to do
in my theater next?"

759
00:39:13,100 --> 00:39:16,576
{\an1}I just loved the man for
the rest of my life after that.

760
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,309
He'd just lost
a million dollars,

761
00:39:19,333 --> 00:39:21,676
{\an1}and it wasn't a vague gesture.

762
00:39:21,700 --> 00:39:24,476
{\an1}The next day we were discussing
what we would do next.

763
00:39:24,500 --> 00:39:26,842
{\an1}[ Woman speaking indistinctly ]

764
00:39:26,866 --> 00:39:30,809
{\an1}-He would wander amongst his
actors the night before a show

765
00:39:30,833 --> 00:39:33,242
{\an1}like Hal at Agincourt.

766
00:39:33,266 --> 00:39:36,909
{\an1}Everybody from the lowest peon
to the star

767
00:39:36,933 --> 00:39:40,209
felt his charisma,
his power, his generosity...

768
00:39:40,233 --> 00:39:43,042
{\an1}his sincere, genuine hope
that all would go well,

769
00:39:43,066 --> 00:39:44,542
{\an8}his love for you.

770
00:39:44,566 --> 00:39:46,276
{\an7}And it strengthened you.

771
00:39:46,300 --> 00:39:47,742
{\an7}It made you feel good,

772
00:39:47,766 --> 00:39:52,476
and it made you
want to do good for him.

773
00:39:52,500 --> 00:39:55,676
{\an1}It pulled you out of yourself
and said,

774
00:39:55,700 --> 00:39:58,942
{\an1}"Oh, my God, please don't
let me fail this wonderful man."

775
00:39:58,966 --> 00:40:02,242
{\an8}♪♪

776
00:40:02,266 --> 00:40:04,976
{\an1}-This theater was the Mecca
for playwrights.

777
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,142
{\an7}Joe really gave them a voice

778
00:40:08,166 --> 00:40:10,276
{\an7}and offered them a freedom

779
00:40:10,300 --> 00:40:12,609
{\an8}that did not exist
anywhere else.

780
00:40:12,633 --> 00:40:14,509
{\an8}♪♪

781
00:40:14,533 --> 00:40:16,342
{\an1}-I was in the army, in Okinawa,

782
00:40:16,366 --> 00:40:17,809
{\an1}when I found out that my agent

783
00:40:17,833 --> 00:40:20,576
had sold a script
to a man named Joe Papp,

784
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:22,676
-I wrote to
the commanding general.

785
00:40:22,700 --> 00:40:24,042
I said, "This is
a marvelous playwright."

786
00:40:24,066 --> 00:40:26,576
{\an1}And I said, "I need him here
to do that play."

787
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,642
{\an1}-He got me out of the army
about 77 days early,

788
00:40:29,666 --> 00:40:31,842
{\an1}and it doesn't sound like much
unless you're in the army

789
00:40:31,866 --> 00:40:34,709
on Okinawa,
and then it's an eternity.

790
00:40:34,733 --> 00:40:37,809
Suddenly I'm in
this mogul's office,

791
00:40:37,833 --> 00:40:39,509
and there's this man

792
00:40:39,533 --> 00:40:42,042
with this giant cigar
that he's offering me

793
00:40:42,066 --> 00:40:44,442
and saying,
"I really love your play,

794
00:40:44,466 --> 00:40:45,876
a great play,
a great piece of work.

795
00:40:45,900 --> 00:40:48,576
{\an1}We've got a great cast.
Here, have a cigar."

796
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:52,076
{\an8}♪♪

797
00:40:52,100 --> 00:40:56,076
{\an1}-When I was here, there was
a whole bunch of guys

798
00:40:56,100 --> 00:40:58,733
{\an1}that were his playwrights.

799
00:41:00,866 --> 00:41:04,642
{\an7}They all seemed to smoke cigars
with him, you know?

800
00:41:04,666 --> 00:41:06,042
{\an7}And I called them The Davids,

801
00:41:06,066 --> 00:41:07,342
{\an7}because I... I don't know.

802
00:41:07,366 --> 00:41:10,242
{\an7}They all seemed to have the...
David Rabe, David Mamet.

803
00:41:10,266 --> 00:41:15,776
{\an7}And I always felt kind of
in the minority.

804
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,542
{\an1}And these Davids, you know,
they would fight with him.

805
00:41:18,566 --> 00:41:20,676
They'd walk away.
They'd never speak to him again.

806
00:41:20,700 --> 00:41:22,076
And they'd come back
in two weeks.

807
00:41:22,100 --> 00:41:24,309
{\an1}They'd make up, they'd be doing
a new play together.

808
00:41:24,333 --> 00:41:26,142
They'd be opening
Lincoln Center together,

809
00:41:26,166 --> 00:41:27,609
{\an1}then they'd be burning it down.

810
00:41:27,633 --> 00:41:30,409
It was so dramatic,
it was so male,

811
00:41:30,433 --> 00:41:33,909
{\an1}it was so chemical, you know,
that you could...

812
00:41:33,933 --> 00:41:37,409
{\an1}you could feel it in the air
when there was a David around.

813
00:41:37,433 --> 00:41:39,342
{\an1}-When it's that personal,

814
00:41:39,366 --> 00:41:41,276
{\an1}intense thing that he had
about his theater

815
00:41:41,300 --> 00:41:42,876
{\an1}and I had about my work,

816
00:41:42,900 --> 00:41:45,876
{\an1}and when they fit together,
of course, it was glorious

817
00:41:45,900 --> 00:41:49,342
{\an1}and I imagined I'd be doing
plays with him forever.

818
00:41:49,366 --> 00:41:55,076
{\an1}-I felt very much as if I were
a member of a group of ronin

819
00:41:55,100 --> 00:41:59,276
whose mission was to,
as grandiose and pretentious

820
00:41:59,300 --> 00:42:03,876
as it seems now,
was to somehow elevate

821
00:42:03,900 --> 00:42:05,842
{\an1}the level of American drama

822
00:42:05,866 --> 00:42:08,242
{\an1}from a tedious mediocrity

823
00:42:08,266 --> 00:42:11,566
{\an1}to something passionate
and meaningful and engaged.

824
00:42:14,433 --> 00:42:17,542
{\an1}-Rather than buying an orchard
sort of straight out,

825
00:42:17,566 --> 00:42:19,542
I like to plant seeds
and see them grow.

826
00:42:19,566 --> 00:42:26,509
{\an8}♪♪

827
00:42:26,533 --> 00:42:29,242
{\an1}It was women reciting poetry.

828
00:42:29,266 --> 00:42:33,342
But what poetry.
It was exquisite writing.

829
00:42:33,366 --> 00:42:36,376
{\an1}Very rich and full of color.

830
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:37,642
Pardon the pun.

831
00:42:37,666 --> 00:42:40,709
{\an8}♪♪

832
00:42:40,733 --> 00:42:43,376
-Joe was most alive

833
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,076
{\an1}when he was talking about

834
00:42:45,100 --> 00:42:46,976
{\an1}his vision of what a play was

835
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,109
or what a scene was.

836
00:42:49,133 --> 00:42:52,976
{\an7}It was almost as if my spirit
or the artist's spirit

837
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,209
{\an7}was transferred to him.

838
00:42:55,233 --> 00:42:57,642
{\an7}And all of a sudden, the
entire... all the characters

839
00:42:57,666 --> 00:42:59,609
{\an7}and all the moments of that play

840
00:42:59,633 --> 00:43:01,242
{\an8}were just emanating
from his eyes.

841
00:43:01,266 --> 00:43:04,042
{\an7}And that's what made him
such a fabulous producer,

842
00:43:04,066 --> 00:43:07,576
{\an8}because he felt
what the artist felt.

843
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,809
{\an8}-There were scenes
that I will never forget.

844
00:43:10,833 --> 00:43:13,542
{\an7}Just the brilliance of

845
00:43:13,566 --> 00:43:15,876
{\an7}a young, African-American woman

846
00:43:15,900 --> 00:43:17,742
{\an8}expressing

847
00:43:17,766 --> 00:43:20,942
{\an1}her... her life experience.

848
00:43:20,966 --> 00:43:24,876
{\an1}-This has been an experiment
to see how selfish I could be,

849
00:43:24,900 --> 00:43:28,709
{\an1}if I could really carry on
to snare a possible lover,

850
00:43:28,733 --> 00:43:32,976
{\an1}if I was capable of debasing
myself for the love of another,

851
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,409
if I could stand
not being wanted

852
00:43:35,433 --> 00:43:38,109
{\an1}when I wanted to be wanted,
and I cannot.

853
00:43:38,133 --> 00:43:41,309
{\an1}So, with no further assistance
or guidance from you,

854
00:43:41,333 --> 00:43:42,876
{\an1}I am ending this affair.

855
00:43:42,900 --> 00:43:47,342
{\an1}-So many different emotions
that it conjured up in people

856
00:43:47,366 --> 00:43:50,476
{\an1}that you could... you could hear
literal sounds,

857
00:43:50,500 --> 00:43:52,542
{\an1}expressions, sighs, moans.

858
00:43:52,566 --> 00:43:55,276
{\an1}-We wanted the audience
to have a visceral,

859
00:43:55,300 --> 00:43:58,309
{\an1}tangible relationship with us
so they'd feel

860
00:43:58,333 --> 00:44:01,409
{\an1}and know that being alive
and being colored was,

861
00:44:01,433 --> 00:44:03,809
{\an1}in fact, a metaphysical dilemma.

862
00:44:03,833 --> 00:44:10,576
{\an1}-This note is attached to
a plant I have been watering

863
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,342
{\an1}since the day I met you.

864
00:44:13,366 --> 00:44:15,676
{\an1}Water it your damn self!

865
00:44:15,700 --> 00:44:20,142
{\an8}♪♪

866
00:44:20,166 --> 00:44:22,642
{\an1}-Joe understood American culture
is like a gumbo

867
00:44:22,666 --> 00:44:23,976
where you throw
all these ingredients

868
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:25,709
{\an1}which you should never
put together.

869
00:44:25,733 --> 00:44:27,176
{\an1}And when the pot gets boiling

870
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,142
and they collide
against one another,

871
00:44:29,166 --> 00:44:32,309
{\an1}the juice of one ingredient
informs the juice of another.

872
00:44:32,333 --> 00:44:35,476
{\an8}And it's that dynamic
which is American culture

873
00:44:35,500 --> 00:44:37,009
{\an7}at its most brilliant.

874
00:44:37,033 --> 00:44:39,776
{\an7}-I hate to see minorities
completely absorbed

875
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:41,742
{\an8}into the mainstream
of American life.

876
00:44:41,766 --> 00:44:43,376
{\an8}- Right.
- I think we lose a great deal.

877
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,942
{\an7}I like what's different.
- Wait.

878
00:44:46,966 --> 00:44:49,209
{\an7}Hey, what did you say?
$8?

879
00:44:49,233 --> 00:44:51,976
{\an8}But we wanted $14.
Why didn't we get $14?

880
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:53,842
{\an8}Hello. You listening?

881
00:44:53,866 --> 00:44:56,676
{\an8}♪♪

882
00:44:56,700 --> 00:45:00,109
{\an1}-The plays that he did and
the authors that he reached for

883
00:45:00,133 --> 00:45:03,609
{\an1}and the actors that he wanted
to nurture and support,

884
00:45:03,633 --> 00:45:06,042
the people he hired,
the faces you saw

885
00:45:06,066 --> 00:45:07,809
when you walked
into the building...

886
00:45:07,833 --> 00:45:12,276
It wasn't a theory.
It was a way of living.

887
00:45:12,300 --> 00:45:14,409
-Joe understood
that culture empowers you.

888
00:45:14,433 --> 00:45:18,409
{\an1}It is... It is the way
to affirm who you are.

889
00:45:18,433 --> 00:45:20,376
{\an1}If you see your images,
if you see your stories

890
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:21,942
being told,
it gives you another sense

891
00:45:21,966 --> 00:45:23,942
that you have a right
to be in the room.

892
00:45:23,966 --> 00:45:27,276
{\an8}♪♪

893
00:45:27,300 --> 00:45:28,942
♪♪

894
00:45:28,966 --> 00:45:36,966
{\an8}♪♪

895
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:47,409
{\an8}♪♪

896
00:45:47,433 --> 00:45:49,342
-It's amazing.

897
00:45:49,366 --> 00:45:50,609
{\an1}It's probably very close

898
00:45:50,633 --> 00:45:53,600
{\an1}to what the Elizabethan theater
used to be.

899
00:45:57,566 --> 00:46:00,209
{\an1}People eating a sandwich
while you're doing it,

900
00:46:00,233 --> 00:46:02,076
{\an1}and they have their kids,

901
00:46:02,100 --> 00:46:03,509
and the kids
sometimes are crying,

902
00:46:03,533 --> 00:46:05,742
and dogs would
walk on the stage...

903
00:46:05,766 --> 00:46:08,942
{\an1}I mean that... or a squirrel
would walk across.

904
00:46:08,966 --> 00:46:11,576
{\an1}So you'd be waiting to do your
entrance from the vomitorium

905
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:16,676
{\an1}and you'd look up, and a family
of raccoons are staring at you.

906
00:46:16,700 --> 00:46:18,476
That's what
the Delacorte was like.

907
00:46:18,500 --> 00:46:26,500
{\an8}♪♪

908
00:46:29,233 --> 00:46:34,676
{\an1}-In his own idiosyncratic
and very opinionated way,

909
00:46:34,700 --> 00:46:38,309
{\an1}Joe understood Shakespeare
from the neck down,

910
00:46:38,333 --> 00:46:41,509
and those productions
exploded with their energy.

911
00:46:41,533 --> 00:46:45,409
[ Laughter ]
- [ Speaking indistinctly ]

912
00:46:45,433 --> 00:46:48,609
-O, you are novices!

913
00:46:48,633 --> 00:46:52,442
{\an1}Tis a world to see, how tame,
when men and women are alone,

914
00:46:52,466 --> 00:46:55,409
a meacock wretch
can make the curstest shrew.

915
00:46:55,433 --> 00:46:58,442
{\an1}Give me thy hand, Kate:
I will unto Venice,

916
00:46:58,466 --> 00:47:00,142
Sunday comes apace
'gainst the wedding-day.

917
00:47:00,166 --> 00:47:02,409
{\an1}provide the feast, father,
and bid the guests;

918
00:47:02,433 --> 00:47:05,209
{\an1}I will be sure my Katherine
shall be fine.

919
00:47:05,233 --> 00:47:06,476
{\an1}-I know not what to say.

920
00:47:06,500 --> 00:47:07,976
-The tradition
of doing Shakespeare

921
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,009
{\an1}belonged to the English,
not to us.

922
00:47:10,033 --> 00:47:14,942
{\an1}And Joe wanted to erase
that distance between us.

923
00:47:14,966 --> 00:47:17,976
{\an1}-Come, come, you wasp,
i'faith you are too angry.

924
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,009
-If I be waspish,
best beware my sting.

925
00:47:21,033 --> 00:47:23,276
-My remedy is then
to pluck it out.

926
00:47:23,300 --> 00:47:25,642
{\an1}-Ay, if the fool could find it
where it lies.

927
00:47:25,666 --> 00:47:29,209
{\an1}-Who knows not where a wasp does
wear his sting? In his tail.

928
00:47:29,233 --> 00:47:31,166
- In his tongue.
- Whose tongue?

929
00:47:32,766 --> 00:47:35,800
-Yours.

930
00:47:40,433 --> 00:47:41,609
[ Laughter ]

931
00:47:41,633 --> 00:47:43,466
{\an1}So, if you talk of tales...

932
00:47:44,900 --> 00:47:45,942
farewell!

933
00:47:45,966 --> 00:47:47,809
-What, with my tongue
in your tail?

934
00:47:47,833 --> 00:47:48,876
[ Laughter ]

935
00:47:48,900 --> 00:47:50,709
{\an1}-I could bring myself to it.

936
00:47:50,733 --> 00:47:54,709
{\an7}I could bring my own culture,
my own Puerto Rican background,

937
00:47:54,733 --> 00:47:59,176
{\an7}my own Spanish culture,
my own rhythms, my own...

938
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,376
{\an7}feelings to Shakespeare.

939
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,642
{\an7}-So Papp ultimately is telling
Raul Julia,

940
00:48:04,666 --> 00:48:05,876
{\an7}"It's okay to speak Shakespeare

941
00:48:05,900 --> 00:48:07,142
{\an7}with a Puerto Rican accent."

942
00:48:07,166 --> 00:48:10,009
{\an7}That's a revolutionary change.

943
00:48:10,033 --> 00:48:13,009
{\an8}-When you go to see
some Shakespeare and you got

944
00:48:13,033 --> 00:48:15,276
{\an8}people of color,
Blacks and Latinos,

945
00:48:15,300 --> 00:48:17,842
{\an8}like really in it
and really doing it,

946
00:48:17,866 --> 00:48:21,376
{\an7}it just seemed like Shakespeare
can be mine.

947
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,476
{\an7}And then after a while,
everything was mine.

948
00:48:24,500 --> 00:48:27,776
{\an8}Sondheim was mine
and Mahler was mine

949
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,233
{\an8}and Bartók was mine.

950
00:48:31,300 --> 00:48:35,376
{\an7}-This my hand will rather
the multitudinous seas

951
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,176
{\an8}incarnadine,

952
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:41,276
{\an7}making the green one red.

953
00:48:41,300 --> 00:48:44,142
{\an7}-We tried everything to open up
the whole issue

954
00:48:44,166 --> 00:48:46,309
{\an8}that you're capturing
human beings.

955
00:48:46,333 --> 00:48:47,576
{\an8}He would... He would

956
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:49,909
{\an7}cast Hamlet as a woman.

957
00:48:49,933 --> 00:48:53,242
{\an7}-To be or not to be...

958
00:48:53,266 --> 00:48:55,300
{\an8}that is the question.

959
00:48:58,366 --> 00:49:00,176
{\an8}Whether tis nobler
in the mind...

960
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,909
{\an7}-He wanted people to listen
to these great words

961
00:49:02,933 --> 00:49:06,576
{\an8}for the first time,
and he also wanted people

962
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,109
{\an8}to listen to them
that had heard them often,

963
00:49:09,133 --> 00:49:10,909
{\an8}but were never really listening.

964
00:49:10,933 --> 00:49:14,309
{\an8}-To die, to sleep,

965
00:49:14,333 --> 00:49:16,076
{\an8}and by that sleep,
to end the heart ache

966
00:49:16,100 --> 00:49:19,842
{\an7}and the thousand natural shocks
that flesh is heir to.

967
00:49:19,866 --> 00:49:21,509
{\an1}-If you really want people
to listen to them

968
00:49:21,533 --> 00:49:22,742
for the first time,

969
00:49:22,766 --> 00:49:24,742
you have to own them
in a different way.

970
00:49:24,766 --> 00:49:28,800
-To die, to sleep...

971
00:49:32,533 --> 00:49:36,442
to sleep perchance to dream...

972
00:49:36,466 --> 00:49:38,809
Ah, there's the rub.

973
00:49:38,833 --> 00:49:42,209
-Joe asked me to try
the "to be or not to be"

974
00:49:42,233 --> 00:49:43,542
out of my heritage.

975
00:49:43,566 --> 00:49:46,276
{\an1}My father was Spanish.
My real name is Ramón Estévez.

976
00:49:46,300 --> 00:49:51,209
{\an7}He hid Hamlet in the play as
kind of a Puerto Rican janitor.

977
00:49:51,233 --> 00:49:52,642
{\an7}The Puerto Rican community,

978
00:49:52,666 --> 00:49:54,542
{\an7}we're at the bottom rung
at this time,

979
00:49:54,566 --> 00:49:58,242
and he wanted people
to feel their plight.

980
00:49:58,266 --> 00:50:00,776
{\an1}[ Puerto Rican accent ]
To be or not to be,

981
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:02,076
that is the question.

982
00:50:02,100 --> 00:50:05,376
Whether 'tis nobler
in the mind to suffer

983
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,409
the slings and arrows
of outrageous fortune,

984
00:50:08,433 --> 00:50:10,576
{\an1}or to take arms against
a sea of troubles

985
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:12,342
{\an1}and, by opposing, to end them.

986
00:50:12,366 --> 00:50:13,709
[ Regular voice ]
The audience was in hysterics

987
00:50:13,733 --> 00:50:16,076
when it started
until about halfway through,

988
00:50:16,100 --> 00:50:19,976
{\an1}and they began to listen,
some of them for the first time.

989
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,542
{\an1}And by the end, many of them
were in tears, you know?

990
00:50:23,566 --> 00:50:25,142
{\an1}So, we were using this language

991
00:50:25,166 --> 00:50:28,442
{\an7}that was nearly 400 years old
at the time

992
00:50:28,466 --> 00:50:31,642
{\an8}in a community
where people were suffering,

993
00:50:31,666 --> 00:50:34,409
{\an8}and this language was

994
00:50:34,433 --> 00:50:36,009
{\an8}given a new voice.

995
00:50:36,033 --> 00:50:44,033
{\an8}♪♪

996
00:50:46,033 --> 00:50:49,409
{\an8}-♪ In Verona ♪

997
00:50:49,433 --> 00:50:50,809
{\an1}-Joe would involve a person

998
00:50:50,833 --> 00:50:52,576
from one production
into the next.

999
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:55,076
{\an1}So he got Galt MacDermot,
the "Hair" composer.

1000
00:50:55,100 --> 00:50:57,509
{\an1}He felt, "Why don't you write
a song or two

1001
00:50:57,533 --> 00:50:58,709
{\an1}for the 'Two Gentlemen
of Verona'

1002
00:50:58,733 --> 00:51:00,409
{\an1}that we're doing in the park
this summer?"

1003
00:51:00,433 --> 00:51:04,109
{\an1}-And by the time the play began
previews in Central Park,

1004
00:51:04,133 --> 00:51:07,176
{\an1}it had been converted from
Shakespeare's play to a musical,

1005
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:08,876
retaining the name,
retaining the story,

1006
00:51:08,900 --> 00:51:11,109
{\an1}but told in contemporary terms.

1007
00:51:11,133 --> 00:51:14,709
{\an1}-♪ Night letter, so divine ♪

1008
00:51:14,733 --> 00:51:18,109
{\an1}♪ Night letter, come be mine ♪

1009
00:51:18,133 --> 00:51:21,976
♪ Nothing better
than a hot night letter ♪

1010
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:25,542
{\an1}♪ Night letter, oh, so cool ♪

1011
00:51:25,566 --> 00:51:31,876
♪ Night letter ♪
- The show was sexy and hot.

1012
00:51:31,900 --> 00:51:36,876
{\an1}And it was hot and steamy
in Central Park.

1013
00:51:36,900 --> 00:51:39,976
{\an1}And then he and I are on stage,
and we're doing the whole thing

1014
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:41,709
{\an1}and bum, bum, bum, bum, bum.

1015
00:51:41,733 --> 00:51:47,109
{\an1}And the number is over,
and the audience went nuts!

1016
00:51:47,133 --> 00:51:50,609
{\an1}[ Cheers and applause ]

1017
00:51:50,633 --> 00:51:53,609
{\an8}♪♪

1018
00:51:53,633 --> 00:51:57,609
{\an1}-It was Shakespearean "Hair."
It was a "Hair-y" Shakespeare.

1019
00:51:57,633 --> 00:51:59,576
-It was a production
that exploded

1020
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:01,576
{\an1}on the stage of the Delacorte.

1021
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:03,242
{\an1}And the decision was made
that this play

1022
00:52:03,266 --> 00:52:05,476
{\an1}could readily go to Broadway.

1023
00:52:05,500 --> 00:52:07,409
It opened
to extraordinary notices

1024
00:52:07,433 --> 00:52:09,476
{\an1}and became the first instance

1025
00:52:09,500 --> 00:52:11,309
of the New York
Shakespeare Festival

1026
00:52:11,333 --> 00:52:13,442
{\an1}earning significant revenue

1027
00:52:13,466 --> 00:52:16,909
{\an1}from a self-produced play
on Broadway,

1028
00:52:16,933 --> 00:52:20,209
playing to a broad,
popular audience.

1029
00:52:20,233 --> 00:52:22,276
{\an8}♪♪

1030
00:52:22,300 --> 00:52:25,942
{\an7}-Then Joe moves "Sticks
and Bones" by David Rabe.

1031
00:52:25,966 --> 00:52:27,709
{\an1}-Joe's thinking was that
"Two Gentlemen of Verona"

1032
00:52:27,733 --> 00:52:29,376
made $10,000 a week.

1033
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:31,776
"Sticks and Bones"
lost $10,000 a week.

1034
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:33,842
It was even Steven.

1035
00:52:33,866 --> 00:52:36,542
-There had never been
a Vietnam play on Broadway.

1036
00:52:36,566 --> 00:52:38,642
{\an1}In fact, there'd never been
a Vietnam play before David's

1037
00:52:38,666 --> 00:52:41,109
that was in
a professional theater.

1038
00:52:41,133 --> 00:52:43,376
-I honestly believe
part of Joe's aim in that

1039
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,009
was just to see
how far he could push...

1040
00:52:46,033 --> 00:52:49,242
{\an1}You know, he was a real...
He liked to provoke.

1041
00:52:49,266 --> 00:52:52,309
{\an1}And he had a play here
that he felt could provoke.

1042
00:52:52,333 --> 00:52:56,642
♪♪

1043
00:52:56,666 --> 00:52:57,942
{\an1}-When they told me we were
moving to Broadway,

1044
00:52:57,966 --> 00:53:00,009
{\an1}I was actually embarrassed.

1045
00:53:00,033 --> 00:53:02,642
{\an1}I thought, "If my show
can go to Broadway,

1046
00:53:02,666 --> 00:53:04,542
{\an1}where they have all that trash,

1047
00:53:04,566 --> 00:53:08,009
then surely I've done
something bad."

1048
00:53:08,033 --> 00:53:11,542
{\an1}I fought it tooth and nail.

1049
00:53:11,566 --> 00:53:14,276
{\an7}-I never envisioned myself

1050
00:53:14,300 --> 00:53:16,376
{\an7}as a Broadway playwright and

1051
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:19,942
{\an1}had absolutely no aspirations
to become one.

1052
00:53:19,966 --> 00:53:22,309
{\an1}-But I realized the more
they advertised,

1053
00:53:22,333 --> 00:53:24,642
the more Black people
would know about it

1054
00:53:24,666 --> 00:53:26,209
{\an1}and the more they would go.

1055
00:53:26,233 --> 00:53:28,766
And in fact,
more Black people
<i>did</i> 
come.

1056
00:53:30,833 --> 00:53:35,109
{\an1}-It was Joe who taught me
to be radical at the center.

1057
00:53:35,133 --> 00:53:37,376
He didn't want to run
a little theater downtown.

1058
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:39,009
He wanted to get
the shows working

1059
00:53:39,033 --> 00:53:42,376
and move them uptown
to Broadway.

1060
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:44,342
{\an1}He wanted to storm the citadel

1061
00:53:44,366 --> 00:53:46,576
because he believed
that radical ideas

1062
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:49,276
are more important
at the center.

1063
00:53:49,300 --> 00:53:52,609
{\an8}-Now the nominees
for the Best Broadway Musical.

1064
00:53:52,633 --> 00:53:55,942
{\an7}They are "Ain't Supposed to Die
a Natural Death"

1065
00:53:55,966 --> 00:53:59,033
{\an1}"Follies," "Two Gentlemen
of Verona," "Grease."

1066
00:54:00,166 --> 00:54:02,109
Now...

1067
00:54:02,133 --> 00:54:03,976
isn't that exciting?

1068
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:05,009
[ Laughter ]

1069
00:54:05,033 --> 00:54:06,442
Upside-down.

1070
00:54:06,466 --> 00:54:08,709
{\an1}"Two Gentlemen of Verona."
[ Cheers and applause ]

1071
00:54:08,733 --> 00:54:15,209
{\an8}♪♪

1072
00:54:15,233 --> 00:54:20,009
{\an1}-The winner for Best Broadway
play is "Sticks and Bones."

1073
00:54:20,033 --> 00:54:22,442
{\an1}[ Cheers and applause ]

1074
00:54:22,466 --> 00:54:30,466
{\an8}♪♪

1075
00:54:31,133 --> 00:54:33,809
{\an1}-I really didn't think
it was possible.

1076
00:54:33,833 --> 00:54:35,076
{\an1}I mean, I really didn't.

1077
00:54:35,100 --> 00:54:37,509
[ Laughter ]
So thank you very much.

1078
00:54:37,533 --> 00:54:39,176
{\an1}And thank you, everybody.

1079
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:40,576
And I...

1080
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,466
{\an1}[ Cheers and applause ]

1081
00:54:46,133 --> 00:54:49,709
{\an1}-You know, writers are not very
articulate, as a matter of fact.

1082
00:54:49,733 --> 00:54:53,709
{\an1}But I'm so proud of David Rabe.
I think he's a beautiful writer.

1083
00:54:53,733 --> 00:54:56,576
{\an1}-So Joe became a major player
on Broadway,

1084
00:54:56,600 --> 00:55:00,142
{\an1}which was the last thing on
earth that he'd ever dreamed of.

1085
00:55:00,166 --> 00:55:02,342
{\an1}[ Cheers and applause ]

1086
00:55:02,366 --> 00:55:04,109
{\an1}-Five, six, seven, eight!

1087
00:55:04,133 --> 00:55:06,176
{\an8}♪♪

1088
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:09,476
{\an1}-Why did we do "A Chorus Line"?
How did we do "A Chorus Line"?

1089
00:55:09,500 --> 00:55:10,709
Chance!

1090
00:55:10,733 --> 00:55:12,942
Sheer chance.

1091
00:55:12,966 --> 00:55:15,942
{\an7}-Hold it. Hilda, do me a favor.
You dance upstage.

1092
00:55:15,966 --> 00:55:17,809
{\an8}You, downstage.

1093
00:55:17,833 --> 00:55:20,409
{\an8}Again!
Five, six, seven, eight!

1094
00:55:20,433 --> 00:55:22,109
{\an1}-First thing that happened
was Michael Bennett

1095
00:55:22,133 --> 00:55:24,476
coming to my office
and bringing me hours and hours

1096
00:55:24,500 --> 00:55:28,542
of tapes and dancers
talking about their lives.

1097
00:55:28,566 --> 00:55:31,976
{\an1}I listened to the tapes,
and they made me cry.

1098
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:33,976
They told the most
horrible stories

1099
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:35,676
{\an1}about their lives with smiles.

1100
00:55:35,700 --> 00:55:37,476
{\an1}You could hear their laughing.

1101
00:55:37,500 --> 00:55:39,176
{\an1}And I was so moved by it.

1102
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:42,576
-♪ Who am I anyway? ♪

1103
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:46,876
♪ Am I my résumé ♪

1104
00:55:46,900 --> 00:55:54,742
♪ That is a picture
of a person I don't know? ♪

1105
00:55:54,766 --> 00:55:57,009
-He deals with people
trying to get jobs.

1106
00:55:57,033 --> 00:56:00,009
-♪ I need this job ♪

1107
00:56:00,033 --> 00:56:01,609
-When he asks
the Puerto Rican girl

1108
00:56:01,633 --> 00:56:03,442
the personal question
and she says,

1109
00:56:03,466 --> 00:56:04,842
{\an1}"Do I have to answer that?"

1110
00:56:04,866 --> 00:56:06,109
He says,
"You want this job, don't you?"

1111
00:56:06,133 --> 00:56:07,442
-Look, I really
don't mind talking,

1112
00:56:07,466 --> 00:56:08,942
{\an1}but just can't be the first.

1113
00:56:08,966 --> 00:56:11,976
Please?
- You want the job, don't you?

1114
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:15,842
-And she steps back.
It breaks my heart, that line.

1115
00:56:15,866 --> 00:56:17,942
She wanted that job,
and even the song,

1116
00:56:17,966 --> 00:56:20,042
{\an1}♪ I really need this job ♪

1117
00:56:20,066 --> 00:56:23,276
I know...
Understand that totally.

1118
00:56:23,300 --> 00:56:27,242
{\an1}-One, change. Walk, walk.

1119
00:56:27,266 --> 00:56:30,809
And he said,
"I'll give you a workshop."

1120
00:56:30,833 --> 00:56:32,776
And I went,
"No, look, I've heard about you.

1121
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:34,776
{\an7}I mean, I know how you take care
of your writers

1122
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:36,609
{\an8}and your father trips
and all that stuff.

1123
00:56:36,633 --> 00:56:38,942
{\an7}No, I don't need any of that.
I just want a place to work."

1124
00:56:38,966 --> 00:56:41,276
{\an1}He went, "Write. That's all."

1125
00:56:41,300 --> 00:56:46,276
{\an1}Point, point, point, flex, step,
kick, step, change, continuing.

1126
00:56:46,300 --> 00:56:49,042
{\an1}So I worked for about two weeks,
and I went to Joe and I said,

1127
00:56:49,066 --> 00:56:52,109
{\an1}"Uh, huh, I don't know,
it's not happening."

1128
00:56:52,133 --> 00:56:56,942
{\an1}And he said, "That's alright.
Take two more weeks."

1129
00:56:56,966 --> 00:56:58,976
Well, now, I came
from the commercial theater,

1130
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:00,642
{\an1}so I wasn't used to this.

1131
00:57:00,666 --> 00:57:04,542
{\an1}Now, about nine months later,
I
<i>really</i> 
wasn't used to this.

1132
00:57:04,566 --> 00:57:10,042
{\an1}And I also... If I ever needed
a daddy, I found one.

1133
00:57:10,066 --> 00:57:11,942
{\an1}-Okay, I'm eliminating down.

1134
00:57:11,966 --> 00:57:13,776
{\an1}When I call out your number,
please form a line.

1135
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:15,009
Girls first.
Number two.

1136
00:57:15,033 --> 00:57:17,142
Number nine.

1137
00:57:17,166 --> 00:57:18,409
Number 10.

1138
00:57:18,433 --> 00:57:19,609
Number 23.

1139
00:57:19,633 --> 00:57:22,109
Judy Turner. Right.

1140
00:57:22,133 --> 00:57:23,776
37.

1141
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:25,042
149.

1142
00:57:25,066 --> 00:57:26,500
152.

1143
00:57:28,433 --> 00:57:30,033
179.

1144
00:57:30,966 --> 00:57:32,209
Cassie.

1145
00:57:32,233 --> 00:57:40,142
{\an8}♪♪

1146
00:57:40,166 --> 00:57:43,542
{\an1}-♪ One, singular sensation ♪

1147
00:57:43,566 --> 00:57:47,109
{\an1}♪ Every little step she takes ♪

1148
00:57:47,133 --> 00:57:50,176
{\an1}♪ One, thrilling combination ♪

1149
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:53,476
{\an1}♪ Every move that she makes ♪

1150
00:57:53,500 --> 00:57:56,109
-On opening night,
I was backstage,

1151
00:57:56,133 --> 00:57:58,376
{\an1}and during that last number,
"One,"

1152
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:00,109
when the music peaks,

1153
00:58:00,133 --> 00:58:01,842
{\an7}the audience stood up in unison

1154
00:58:01,866 --> 00:58:03,942
{\an8}and screamed
and cheered so loudly,

1155
00:58:03,966 --> 00:58:07,342
{\an7}it was like a wall of sound
coming at the stage.

1156
00:58:07,366 --> 00:58:08,976
{\an1}-♪ Moment in her presence ♪

1157
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:11,042
-Strangers were
laughing and kissing,

1158
00:58:11,066 --> 00:58:15,609
and people
were crying and cheering.

1159
00:58:15,633 --> 00:58:18,009
{\an1}"A Chorus Line" blew the roof
off the public theater.

1160
00:58:18,033 --> 00:58:22,209
-♪ Oooh! Sigh!
Give her your attention ♪

1161
00:58:22,233 --> 00:58:29,842
{\an1}♪ Do I really have to mention
she's the, she's the... ♪

1162
00:58:29,866 --> 00:58:31,109
{\an1}- "A Chorus Line" supported

1163
00:58:31,133 --> 00:58:33,042
{\an1}this entire organization
for eight years.

1164
00:58:33,066 --> 00:58:35,042
It was like having
a small state,

1165
00:58:35,066 --> 00:58:39,109
a small country
supporting this institution.

1166
00:58:39,133 --> 00:58:42,509
{\an1}-He beat out all the more
old-fashioned Broadway producers

1167
00:58:42,533 --> 00:58:45,276
{\an1}in figuring out how to develop a
play without spending any money.

1168
00:58:45,300 --> 00:58:46,976
{\an7}He could just workshop
them downtown.

1169
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:48,442
{\an7}He could workshop them
right here.

1170
00:58:48,466 --> 00:58:49,642
{\an7}If he had something hot,

1171
00:58:49,666 --> 00:58:50,909
{\an7}he could move it uptown.

1172
00:58:50,933 --> 00:58:53,876
{\an7}It was an incredible idea,
but he invented the idea.

1173
00:58:53,900 --> 00:58:55,742
And then the idea
of taking those profits

1174
00:58:55,766 --> 00:58:57,042
and not going off
to Bermuda with them

1175
00:58:57,066 --> 00:58:59,176
{\an1}but plugging them right back
into the non-profit,

1176
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:02,076
you know, thing here
was enormously innovative.

1177
00:59:02,100 --> 00:59:08,909
-♪ She's the one ♪

1178
00:59:08,933 --> 00:59:10,209
-At that point,

1179
00:59:10,233 --> 00:59:13,409
{\an1}Joe was the most powerful man
in American theater.

1180
00:59:13,433 --> 00:59:15,833
{\an8}♪♪

1181
00:59:20,133 --> 00:59:25,476
{\an8}-Uneasy lies the head
that wears a crown.

1182
00:59:25,500 --> 00:59:29,209
{\an1}O, the blood more stirs
to rouse a lion

1183
00:59:29,233 --> 00:59:32,276
than to start a hare.

1184
00:59:32,300 --> 00:59:36,409
O, it is excellent
to have a giant's strength,

1185
00:59:36,433 --> 00:59:42,166
but it is tyrannous
to use it like a giant.

1186
00:59:46,066 --> 00:59:49,909
{\an1}-Our mission was make a surprise
birthday party for Joe

1187
00:59:49,933 --> 00:59:53,442
for 2,000 people
at the Delacorte Theater.

1188
00:59:53,466 --> 00:59:56,742
{\an7}So we had a secret organization
existing here within the theater

1189
00:59:56,766 --> 01:00:00,476
{\an7}that plotted, planned,
and executed a birthday party

1190
01:00:00,500 --> 01:00:02,509
{\an1}that was a celebration of Joe.

1191
01:00:02,533 --> 01:00:05,333
[ Fireworks booming ]

1192
01:00:08,733 --> 01:00:12,266
{\an1}[ Cheers and applause ]

1193
01:00:17,100 --> 01:00:20,633
-[ Laughs ]

1194
01:00:23,100 --> 01:00:25,509
It's like a dream!

1195
01:00:25,533 --> 01:00:27,842
-It was quite
an extraordinary evening,

1196
01:00:27,866 --> 01:00:31,542
{\an1}which included a spoof of
a day in the life of Joe Papp.

1197
01:00:31,566 --> 01:00:33,509
{\an1}-I'm tired of feeling guilty,

1198
01:00:33,533 --> 01:00:38,009
{\an1}feeling guilty because people
are Black or white or convicts

1199
01:00:38,033 --> 01:00:41,676
or basketball players
or soldiers!

1200
01:00:41,700 --> 01:00:44,042
{\an1}I can't take any more guilt!

1201
01:00:44,066 --> 01:00:46,576
I'm going to end it.
I'm going to end you!

1202
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:48,609
{\an1}Which one of you is Joe Papp?

1203
01:00:48,633 --> 01:00:52,609
[ Laughter ]

1204
01:00:52,633 --> 01:00:56,066
{\an1}-Bernie, would you step in here
for a minute, please?

1205
01:00:57,233 --> 01:00:59,942
- Yes, Joe?
- There's Joe Papp!

1206
01:00:59,966 --> 01:01:01,909
[ Bang! ]
- Ooh!

1207
01:01:01,933 --> 01:01:02,976
[ Laughter ]

1208
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:07,776
{\an1}<i>-Sic semper tyrannis!</i>

1209
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:10,142
{\an7}- Were you really surprised?
- Oh, come on!

1210
01:01:10,166 --> 01:01:11,976
{\an8}[ Laughter ]

1211
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:15,242
I was stunned!
- Joe does this

1212
01:01:15,266 --> 01:01:17,176
not for money,

1213
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:20,576
{\an1}not for self-aggrandizement,

1214
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:23,876
but for sheer love
of naked power.

1215
01:01:23,900 --> 01:01:25,576
[ Laughter ]

1216
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:30,042
{\an8}♪♪

1217
01:01:30,066 --> 01:01:33,866
-I was flabbergasted.
Absolutely stunned.

1218
01:01:36,733 --> 01:01:38,809
{\an1}The whole evening, I thought,
was just gorgeous,

1219
01:01:38,833 --> 01:01:40,409
and there was a cake
and Helen Hayes

1220
01:01:40,433 --> 01:01:42,442
{\an7}and three or four mayors
and all these people.

1221
01:01:42,466 --> 01:01:45,709
{\an7}I felt, "What a beautiful,
beautiful event."

1222
01:01:45,733 --> 01:01:47,309
{\an1}But as the evening wore on,

1223
01:01:47,333 --> 01:01:49,976
I began to think,
"Wait a second.

1224
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:53,176
{\an1}I wonder how much this cost,"

1225
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:56,066
{\an1}and, "How come I didn't know
about it at all?"

1226
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:00,476
{\an1}-Joe was aghast at the fact

1227
01:02:00,500 --> 01:02:04,376
{\an1}that that much could go on
that he didn't know about.

1228
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:07,609
{\an1}"How could I possibly be in
the middle of the public theater

1229
01:02:07,633 --> 01:02:08,942
{\an1}and have 50 million people

1230
01:02:08,966 --> 01:02:10,176
and the President
of the United States

1231
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:11,342
involved in something
that I never knew about

1232
01:02:11,366 --> 01:02:13,033
{\an1}until I walked onstage?"

1233
01:02:15,566 --> 01:02:19,533
{\an1}I think we're talking about
a man and his fear of losing it.

1234
01:02:21,666 --> 01:02:25,142
{\an1}That idea of "Am I on top of it?
Am I in control?

1235
01:02:25,166 --> 01:02:30,042
{\an1}Do I know everything about this?
Am I the boss still?"

1236
01:02:30,066 --> 01:02:32,409
You start to worry,
"Am I getting old? Am I..."

1237
01:02:32,433 --> 01:02:36,909
{\an1}You know, "Am I losing my...
My grip over everything?"

1238
01:02:36,933 --> 01:02:41,742
{\an1}-And he would do some really bad
things sometimes to people,

1239
01:02:41,766 --> 01:02:44,842
{\an7}things that were not polite
or...

1240
01:02:44,866 --> 01:02:46,409
{\an8}[ Chuckles ]
That's a nice word for it.

1241
01:02:46,433 --> 01:02:48,242
{\an8}...brutal.

1242
01:02:48,266 --> 01:02:50,142
{\an1}-There would be people
who I knew,

1243
01:02:50,166 --> 01:02:52,076
{\an1}particularly people who worked
in the building,

1244
01:02:52,100 --> 01:02:54,942
who'd be relaxed,
easygoing, funny,

1245
01:02:54,966 --> 01:02:56,276
charming.

1246
01:02:56,300 --> 01:02:59,209
{\an1}You'd talk to them anywhere
in the building.

1247
01:02:59,233 --> 01:03:00,776
{\an1}The minute Joe came in,

1248
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:03,209
{\an1}they became a completely
different person.

1249
01:03:03,233 --> 01:03:06,242
All their spontaneity
and humor would disappear.

1250
01:03:06,266 --> 01:03:13,076
They'd suddenly...
simply be attendant lords.

1251
01:03:13,100 --> 01:03:14,909
{\an1}People would say, "I'm going to
go in and tell Joe this,

1252
01:03:14,933 --> 01:03:16,176
and I feel that
and I feel this."

1253
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:18,609
{\an1}I'd say, "Yeah, you go in,
you tell him."

1254
01:03:18,633 --> 01:03:20,442
The words would dry
in their mouths.

1255
01:03:20,466 --> 01:03:23,842
{\an1}They wouldn't tell him.

1256
01:03:23,866 --> 01:03:26,876
{\an1}I don't think he enjoyed
the power that he had

1257
01:03:26,900 --> 01:03:29,709
{\an1}to dominate a room sometimes.

1258
01:03:29,733 --> 01:03:32,533
{\an1}It just was his only means
of being in a room.

1259
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,142
{\an1}-Joe and I had a falling out
about a second play

1260
01:03:39,166 --> 01:03:42,376
that Michael Bennett
intended to direct.

1261
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:44,376
Joe said,
"I don't want you to do that.

1262
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:45,742
{\an1}I won't allow you to do it."

1263
01:03:45,766 --> 01:03:48,042
And I said, "Joe,
I'm going to do it."

1264
01:03:48,066 --> 01:03:50,342
{\an1}And he said, "In that case,
you have to quit."

1265
01:03:50,366 --> 01:03:52,276
And I said, "Joe,
I am not going to quit.

1266
01:03:52,300 --> 01:03:53,742
You're going to
have to fire me."

1267
01:03:53,766 --> 01:03:55,533
{\an1}He said, "You're fired."

1268
01:03:59,566 --> 01:04:03,176
{\an1}-"Oh, Joseph, although you're on
the side of the angels,

1269
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:06,742
{\an1}you're in grave danger
of becoming a minor fascist."

1270
01:04:06,766 --> 01:04:11,142
And he said,
"What was your first clue?"

1271
01:04:11,166 --> 01:04:14,409
{\an1}I said, "Well, cutting off
your right arm.

1272
01:04:14,433 --> 01:04:17,442
There can be
no explanation for that."

1273
01:04:17,466 --> 01:04:19,109
{\an1}He said, "You mean Bernie?"

1274
01:04:19,133 --> 01:04:22,676
{\an1}I said, "I mean Bernard."

1275
01:04:22,700 --> 01:04:24,109
{\an1}-A lot of people talked about,

1276
01:04:24,133 --> 01:04:26,609
there's a conflict
in your personality.

1277
01:04:26,633 --> 01:04:29,076
{\an1}Some of the words they used...
That you were elusive,

1278
01:04:29,100 --> 01:04:31,342
dehumanized,
you were in search of yourself

1279
01:04:31,366 --> 01:04:32,976
{\an8}and that caused
a lot of problems

1280
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:35,166
{\an8}in your relationships
with other people.

1281
01:04:37,566 --> 01:04:40,209
-Well, maybe true.

1282
01:04:40,233 --> 01:04:42,242
- Do you think it is?
- No.

1283
01:04:42,266 --> 01:04:45,242
{\an1}I mean, part... You can say that
about almost anybody.

1284
01:04:45,266 --> 01:04:49,276
And what's wrong
with searching for yourself?

1285
01:04:49,300 --> 01:04:52,642
{\an1}-Joe was a very complicated guy,

1286
01:04:52,666 --> 01:04:55,609
{\an1}and it was a huge embrace
to be in,

1287
01:04:55,633 --> 01:04:57,776
{\an1}and it was this wonderful thing.

1288
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:02,542
And then it was
an embrace that felt...

1289
01:05:02,566 --> 01:05:05,442
{\an1}suffocating at a certain point,

1290
01:05:05,466 --> 01:05:10,809
and I felt the need
to try my hand elsewhere.

1291
01:05:10,833 --> 01:05:12,709
{\an1}On both sides, there was a lot
of hurt feelings,

1292
01:05:12,733 --> 01:05:14,466
and we parted.

1293
01:05:16,733 --> 01:05:19,942
{\an1}One of those things you don't
get to go back over in life.

1294
01:05:19,966 --> 01:05:24,942
But... the impact
and the connection was huge.

1295
01:05:24,966 --> 01:05:31,676
{\an8}♪♪

1296
01:05:31,700 --> 01:05:34,276
{\an1}-The thing that I think
made Joe great

1297
01:05:34,300 --> 01:05:36,109
was the fact
that he was so flawed

1298
01:05:36,133 --> 01:05:38,176
{\an1}and that he reached so high.

1299
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:42,309
{\an1}And in that way, he was like
the Shakespeare characters

1300
01:05:42,333 --> 01:05:43,642
{\an1}that he loved so much.

1301
01:05:43,666 --> 01:05:51,666
♪♪

1302
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:06,242
{\an8}♪♪

1303
01:06:06,266 --> 01:06:08,209
-He always had
a terribly personal

1304
01:06:08,233 --> 01:06:09,542
{\an1}relationship with actors.

1305
01:06:09,566 --> 01:06:11,176
He always knew about
their husbands

1306
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:14,042
or their wives
or their children.

1307
01:06:14,066 --> 01:06:16,776
{\an1}-When my son was born,
he was the first person,

1308
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:20,709
{\an1}before my husband, who got into
my room in recovery.

1309
01:06:20,733 --> 01:06:24,542
{\an7}I'm coming out of the fog,
and there's Joe.

1310
01:06:24,566 --> 01:06:27,176
{\an8}I said,
"How did you get in here?"

1311
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:29,409
{\an7}He said, "What are you
going to name the child?"

1312
01:06:29,433 --> 01:06:32,109
{\an8}I think he thought,
you know, Joe would be good.

1313
01:06:32,133 --> 01:06:36,042
{\an7}-He danced at our wedding
and was there for our children.

1314
01:06:36,066 --> 01:06:38,376
{\an1}Joe was essentially our father.

1315
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:40,676
{\an1}He was our surrogate father.

1316
01:06:40,700 --> 01:06:44,642
{\an1}-And it actually complicated
numbers of relationships.

1317
01:06:44,666 --> 01:06:48,209
{\an1}He used to say, "My kids have
every reason to want to kill me"

1318
01:06:48,233 --> 01:06:50,933
{\an1}because he wasn't available
as a parent.

1319
01:06:53,700 --> 01:06:56,276
-He was married
to this institution,

1320
01:06:56,300 --> 01:06:58,609
{\an8}and it was his wife
and his mistress

1321
01:06:58,633 --> 01:07:00,576
{\an7}and his family and his children.

1322
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:04,176
{\an8}♪♪

1323
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:07,809
{\an8}-We just grew further
and further apart

1324
01:07:07,833 --> 01:07:11,976
{\an8}until finally I asked
for the divorce.

1325
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:16,909
{\an8}♪♪

1326
01:07:16,933 --> 01:07:20,976
{\an1}-I have very little family life
because I work all the time.

1327
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:23,942
I mean, I work like
seven days a week.

1328
01:07:23,966 --> 01:07:27,566
{\an1}I have relationships with
my children of varying kinds.

1329
01:07:29,933 --> 01:07:32,700
I like family life,
but I can't lead one.

1330
01:07:34,633 --> 01:07:37,609
-I always felt that
the best side of Joe came out

1331
01:07:37,633 --> 01:07:39,109
{\an1}when he was with my family...

1332
01:07:39,133 --> 01:07:41,842
in Utah.

1333
01:07:41,866 --> 01:07:46,276
{\an1}He was the most relaxed,
loving, fun.

1334
01:07:46,300 --> 01:07:48,976
He kind of dropped
all his defensiveness

1335
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:50,942
{\an1}when he was around my family.

1336
01:07:50,966 --> 01:07:54,542
{\an1}Joe loved being on the ranch,

1337
01:07:54,566 --> 01:07:56,742
{\an1}and he loved following
my father around

1338
01:07:56,766 --> 01:08:00,842
{\an1}and learning how to herd cattle
and lift sheep over the fence

1339
01:08:00,866 --> 01:08:02,742
and ride horses.

1340
01:08:02,766 --> 01:08:05,676
Of course, my father
was an anti-communist,

1341
01:08:05,700 --> 01:08:11,909
{\an1}but Joe and my father,
they just had this connection.

1342
01:08:11,933 --> 01:08:15,242
{\an1}Joe told me once, "Your father
is the only man

1343
01:08:15,266 --> 01:08:17,809
I've ever met
that I really trust."

1344
01:08:17,833 --> 01:08:25,833
{\an8}♪♪

1345
01:08:32,266 --> 01:08:34,909
-Splendid isolation.

1346
01:08:34,933 --> 01:08:36,776
It just defines me.

1347
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:40,076
{\an8}♪♪

1348
01:08:40,100 --> 01:08:42,209
You lead a rather
lonely existence.

1349
01:08:42,233 --> 01:08:45,476
{\an1}You're at the top, and you have
to be able to evaluate

1350
01:08:45,500 --> 01:08:49,042
{\an1}how people relate to you.

1351
01:08:49,066 --> 01:08:50,309
{\an1}-And once in the car, he said,

1352
01:08:50,333 --> 01:08:52,609
"You know, Emmett,
when we get bad reviews,

1353
01:08:52,633 --> 01:08:54,809
{\an1}part of my job is to go around
and console people

1354
01:08:54,833 --> 01:08:57,076
{\an1}and tell them that they are good
and don't pay any attention

1355
01:08:57,100 --> 01:08:58,509
to those bad reviews.

1356
01:08:58,533 --> 01:08:59,876
But you know what?

1357
01:08:59,900 --> 01:09:03,309
No one comes around
and comforts me.

1358
01:09:03,333 --> 01:09:04,766
I'm on my own."

1359
01:09:06,366 --> 01:09:10,742
{\an1}-Joe's life is so much his work
that the only way to

1360
01:09:10,766 --> 01:09:14,809
{\an1}have an organic relationship
with Joe is to work with him.

1361
01:09:14,833 --> 01:09:18,276
{\an1}-I worked 10 years as the head
of the play department,

1362
01:09:18,300 --> 01:09:21,709
{\an1}and then our... you know,
people grow and they change

1363
01:09:21,733 --> 01:09:23,409
{\an1}and that happened to us both.

1364
01:09:23,433 --> 01:09:25,409
{\an1}And that's what made it possible

1365
01:09:25,433 --> 01:09:28,542
{\an1}for us to fall in love
and get married.

1366
01:09:28,566 --> 01:09:36,566
{\an8}♪♪

1367
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:50,409
{\an7}-I have touched the highest
point of all my greatness;

1368
01:09:50,433 --> 01:09:53,776
{\an8}and from that
full meridian of my glory

1369
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:56,942
{\an1}I haste now to my setting:

1370
01:09:56,966 --> 01:10:01,409
{\an1}I shall fall like a bright
exhalation in the evening,

1371
01:10:01,433 --> 01:10:04,333
{\an1}and no man see me more.

1372
01:10:07,033 --> 01:10:09,976
-First, let me say,
we didn't come here today

1373
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:13,142
{\an1}to preside over the demolition
of this theater

1374
01:10:13,166 --> 01:10:14,809
{\an1}and the Helen Hayes Theater.

1375
01:10:14,833 --> 01:10:17,276
We're here to
<i>stop
the demolition.</i>

1376
01:10:17,300 --> 01:10:18,942
{\an1}[ Cheers and applause ]

1377
01:10:18,966 --> 01:10:22,676
{\an8}♪♪

1378
01:10:22,700 --> 01:10:26,242
{\an7}-Joe came from a generation
that was politically activated,

1379
01:10:26,266 --> 01:10:28,542
{\an8}but in the '80s,
it was a different era.

1380
01:10:28,566 --> 01:10:30,209
{\an1}It had to do all about
making money

1381
01:10:30,233 --> 01:10:33,709
and Wall Street
and business interests.

1382
01:10:33,733 --> 01:10:37,776
{\an8}♪♪

1383
01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:39,942
{\an7}-What he truly believed

1384
01:10:39,966 --> 01:10:42,909
{\an1}was that the government
should support the arts

1385
01:10:42,933 --> 01:10:46,776
and there should be
a deep commitment

1386
01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:49,942
to a burgeoning
and developing American culture.

1387
01:10:49,966 --> 01:10:54,076
{\an1}-I think that he spent more time
than we ever knew

1388
01:10:54,100 --> 01:10:56,109
{\an1}or could have imagined

1389
01:10:56,133 --> 01:10:59,276
{\an1}just trying to get bills paid.

1390
01:10:59,300 --> 01:11:00,976
-We're a non-profit
organization.

1391
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:04,709
{\an1}No individual accrues any profit
from the benefits of any show,

1392
01:11:04,733 --> 01:11:06,209
which means
you just don't make money.

1393
01:11:06,233 --> 01:11:08,209
{\an1}It's an institution that
has to be continually supported.

1394
01:11:08,233 --> 01:11:11,076
{\an8}♪♪

1395
01:11:11,100 --> 01:11:13,676
{\an8}-In the late 1980s,

1396
01:11:13,700 --> 01:11:15,776
{\an7}the National Endowment
for the Arts

1397
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:17,442
suddenly became
a political football

1398
01:11:17,466 --> 01:11:18,443
in Congress.

1399
01:11:18,467 --> 01:11:20,809
{\an8}-No artist
has a preemptive claim

1400
01:11:20,833 --> 01:11:24,809
{\an8}on the tax dollars
of the American people

1401
01:11:24,833 --> 01:11:28,542
{\an7}to put forth such trash.

1402
01:11:28,566 --> 01:11:30,242
{\an7}-Joe was given the grant

1403
01:11:30,266 --> 01:11:32,309
{\an7}with a rider attached to it

1404
01:11:32,333 --> 01:11:34,276
{\an8}saying,
"If you accept this money,

1405
01:11:34,300 --> 01:11:36,442
{\an7}you have to sign this oath."

1406
01:11:36,466 --> 01:11:38,876
{\an8}♪♪

1407
01:11:38,900 --> 01:11:39,909
{\an8}-I felt it was

1408
01:11:39,933 --> 01:11:42,142
restricting
freedom of expression.

1409
01:11:42,166 --> 01:11:45,476
{\an1}The arts need to have room
to breathe.

1410
01:11:45,500 --> 01:11:47,776
{\an7}-He turned down over $300,000

1411
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:50,609
{\an7}because he wouldn't sign
the Jesse Helms loyalty oath.

1412
01:11:50,633 --> 01:11:52,709
{\an7}And while all the rest of us

1413
01:11:52,733 --> 01:11:53,710
{\an7}were yelling and screaming

1414
01:11:53,734 --> 01:11:55,476
{\an7}and making a big display,

1415
01:11:55,500 --> 01:11:57,876
Joe actually turned
the money down.

1416
01:11:57,900 --> 01:12:00,876
{\an1}-What does Kent say in "Lear"?
"Anger hath a privilege."

1417
01:12:00,900 --> 01:12:03,242
{\an1}And sometimes I feel, you know,

1418
01:12:03,266 --> 01:12:05,176
you just speak out
on these things.

1419
01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:11,476
{\an8}♪♪

1420
01:12:11,500 --> 01:12:13,842
{\an1}-It was a hideous time.

1421
01:12:13,866 --> 01:12:17,042
{\an1}People were dying like flies,
and I was determined

1422
01:12:17,066 --> 01:12:19,176
that I had to somehow
get this message out

1423
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:21,276
{\an1}as quickly as I could.

1424
01:12:21,300 --> 01:12:23,009
{\an1}And so I wrote my play

1425
01:12:23,033 --> 01:12:25,342
as fast as I could

1426
01:12:25,366 --> 01:12:28,509
{\an1}and just sent it around
to everybody.

1427
01:12:28,533 --> 01:12:33,409
{\an7}-Nobody was mentioning
the word "AIDS" anywhere.

1428
01:12:33,433 --> 01:12:35,409
The newspaper
had not printed the word.

1429
01:12:35,433 --> 01:12:36,809
{\an1}It was not on television.

1430
01:12:36,833 --> 01:12:38,209
And yet we knew

1431
01:12:38,233 --> 01:12:39,576
{\an1}there were people dying

1432
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:41,842
{\an1}and there was a crisis.

1433
01:12:41,866 --> 01:12:44,442
{\an7}So I had this tremendous
sense of urgency

1434
01:12:44,466 --> 01:12:46,076
{\an8}about Larry's play.

1435
01:12:46,100 --> 01:12:47,642
{\an8}I sensed that there
was something there

1436
01:12:47,666 --> 01:12:49,400
{\an1}that could be achieved.

1437
01:12:51,766 --> 01:12:53,609
{\an1}-It was a very gutsy play
for him to produce.

1438
01:12:53,633 --> 01:12:55,242
It criticized<i> 
The New York Times</i>

1439
01:12:55,266 --> 01:12:57,742
{\an1}and it criticized his landlord,

1440
01:12:57,766 --> 01:13:00,609
the city of New York,
Mayor Ed Koch.

1441
01:13:00,633 --> 01:13:04,009
{\an1}-We're living in an age
of extraordinary passion

1442
01:13:04,033 --> 01:13:05,809
and struggle.

1443
01:13:05,833 --> 01:13:07,509
{\an1}And to have something less
on the stage

1444
01:13:07,533 --> 01:13:10,509
{\an1}than what happens in life
is a cop-out.

1445
01:13:10,533 --> 01:13:14,076
{\an8}[ Telephone rings ]

1446
01:13:14,100 --> 01:13:15,976
{\an8}-Yeah.

1447
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:17,776
{\an8}Alright. Hold on.

1448
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:20,709
"It is no secret..."
That's right.

1449
01:13:20,733 --> 01:13:22,942
"It is no secret
that I consider the mayor

1450
01:13:22,966 --> 01:13:24,842
{\an1}to be, along with the
<i>Times,
the biggest enemy</i>

1451
01:13:24,866 --> 01:13:27,542
gay men and women
must contend with in New York.

1452
01:13:27,566 --> 01:13:29,942
{\an1}Until the day I die, I will
never forgive this newspaper

1453
01:13:29,966 --> 01:13:31,876
and this mayor
for ignoring this epidemic

1454
01:13:31,900 --> 01:13:34,009
which is killing
so many of my friends."

1455
01:13:34,033 --> 01:13:36,842
{\an1}Alright. Here's the end.

1456
01:13:36,866 --> 01:13:39,242
And every gay man
who refuses to come forward now

1457
01:13:39,266 --> 01:13:41,242
{\an1}and fight to save his own life
is truly helping

1458
01:13:41,266 --> 01:13:42,542
{\an1}to kill the rest of us.

1459
01:13:42,566 --> 01:13:43,576
{\an1}How many of us have to die

1460
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:45,009
before you get scared
off your ass

1461
01:13:45,033 --> 01:13:47,009
and into action?"

1462
01:13:47,033 --> 01:13:49,009
Thank <i>you.</i>

1463
01:13:49,033 --> 01:13:50,709
{\an1}-Do you think Michael,
he shouldn't read it...

1464
01:13:50,733 --> 01:13:51,909
Or do it that way?

1465
01:13:51,933 --> 01:13:53,242
I think he's doing it
a little stronger now.

1466
01:13:53,266 --> 01:13:56,742
{\an1}-Joe just became so passionate
about this play.

1467
01:13:56,766 --> 01:14:00,009
{\an1}It was like it was his child.

1468
01:14:00,033 --> 01:14:02,842
{\an1}-How many do you know now?

1469
01:14:02,866 --> 01:14:05,976
-40. Dead.

1470
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:08,476
That's too many
for one person to know.

1471
01:14:08,500 --> 01:14:11,309
{\an8}♪♪

1472
01:14:11,333 --> 01:14:13,276
{\an7}-The play was so devastating.

1473
01:14:13,300 --> 01:14:15,076
{\an8}Every night
at the end of the play,

1474
01:14:15,100 --> 01:14:17,742
{\an7}people would sit there
and be unable to move,

1475
01:14:17,766 --> 01:14:19,609
{\an8}absolutely stunned.

1476
01:14:19,633 --> 01:14:21,876
{\an8}♪♪

1477
01:14:21,900 --> 01:14:23,942
{\an8}-On opening night,
he wrote me this note

1478
01:14:23,966 --> 01:14:25,976
{\an8}saying that it was
"The Normal Heart"

1479
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:30,442
{\an8}that made him...

1480
01:14:30,466 --> 01:14:32,009
{\an8}get in touch again

1481
01:14:32,033 --> 01:14:33,176
{\an7}with the kind of theater

1482
01:14:33,200 --> 01:14:35,309
{\an7}that he wanted to run.

1483
01:14:35,333 --> 01:14:37,976
{\an1}-Joe became much more conscious
of the role he could play

1484
01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:40,509
in increasing
the consciousness about AIDS,

1485
01:14:40,533 --> 01:14:43,276
and this play
was the main vehicle.

1486
01:14:43,300 --> 01:14:48,109
{\an1}But I think his consciousness
was also raised by his own son

1487
01:14:48,133 --> 01:14:51,342
{\an1}telling him that he was gay
in his teens

1488
01:14:51,366 --> 01:14:55,342
{\an1}and then dealing with his own
fatherly feelings about that.

1489
01:14:55,366 --> 01:14:57,809
And Tony helped him
a great deal.

1490
01:14:57,833 --> 01:15:00,509
{\an1}They grew much closer.

1491
01:15:00,533 --> 01:15:05,609
{\an1}And then Joe found out that
he had prostate cancer in 1987,

1492
01:15:05,633 --> 01:15:08,076
{\an1}the same year that Tony
found out that he had AIDS.

1493
01:15:08,100 --> 01:15:15,809
{\an8}♪♪

1494
01:15:15,833 --> 01:15:18,976
{\an1}It was incomprehensible,
he and Tony should be dying,

1495
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:22,009
he and his son,
at the same time,

1496
01:15:22,033 --> 01:15:23,076
{\an1}both of them in the same room.

1497
01:15:23,100 --> 01:15:25,776
{\an1}It was just unbelievable.

1498
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:29,376
{\an8}♪♪

1499
01:15:29,400 --> 01:15:31,442
{\an1}-It was just horrendous

1500
01:15:31,466 --> 01:15:35,809
for father and son
to be dying side by side,

1501
01:15:35,833 --> 01:15:37,642
this man who had been

1502
01:15:37,666 --> 01:15:39,509
{\an7}so much the master of himself

1503
01:15:39,533 --> 01:15:41,476
{\an7}and his world and his life.

1504
01:15:41,500 --> 01:15:44,042
{\an8}♪♪

1505
01:15:44,066 --> 01:15:46,942
{\an1}-He said, "I don't know
how to go about dying."

1506
01:15:46,966 --> 01:15:48,942
{\an8}♪♪

1507
01:15:48,966 --> 01:15:53,609
{\an1}It was the only challenge
that I think stumped him.

1508
01:15:53,633 --> 01:15:56,842
{\an1}Joe made numbers of calls
where he felt relationships

1509
01:15:56,866 --> 01:16:01,476
had been complicated
or neglected in some way.

1510
01:16:01,500 --> 01:16:04,309
{\an1}-We made up and became friends

1511
01:16:04,333 --> 01:16:06,876
{\an1}and forgave each other

1512
01:16:06,900 --> 01:16:09,776
what we each felt
we had done to each other.

1513
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:12,142
{\an1}-He asked for forgiveness
for all kinds of things,

1514
01:16:12,166 --> 01:16:14,409
{\an1}and he brought this family
back together again.

1515
01:16:14,433 --> 01:16:16,209
{\an1}For whatever his journey
might have been,

1516
01:16:16,233 --> 01:16:17,976
he brought the family
back together.

1517
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:19,609
It came full circle.

1518
01:16:19,633 --> 01:16:23,776
{\an8}♪♪

1519
01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:27,242
{\an1}-Tony died first, and I...

1520
01:16:27,266 --> 01:16:30,676
I didn't know
how I was gonna tell Joe this.

1521
01:16:30,700 --> 01:16:35,476
{\an1}It was just the hardest thing
I ever had to do in my life.

1522
01:16:35,500 --> 01:16:38,742
-I've never heard...

1523
01:16:38,766 --> 01:16:41,442
{\an1}a sound come out of a man,

1524
01:16:41,466 --> 01:16:46,709
like a kind of wail,
a kind of yelp, a kind of...

1525
01:16:46,733 --> 01:16:51,076
{\an1}It was the most profound,
naked pain

1526
01:16:51,100 --> 01:16:53,876
{\an1}I've ever heard uttered

1527
01:16:53,900 --> 01:16:56,676
{\an1}as he broke down crying.

1528
01:16:56,700 --> 01:17:04,700
{\an8}♪♪

1529
01:17:13,466 --> 01:17:14,842
-And he woke up
and called for Gail.

1530
01:17:14,866 --> 01:17:16,209
{\an1}And I said, "It's Emmett."

1531
01:17:16,233 --> 01:17:17,976
And he said,
"Oh, dear Emmett."

1532
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:20,276
{\an1}And then as I was drifting
back off to sleep,

1533
01:17:20,300 --> 01:17:23,509
he started singing
this Russian lullaby.

1534
01:17:23,533 --> 01:17:25,176
{\an1}It was almost like a dream.

1535
01:17:25,200 --> 01:17:32,109
{\an8}♪♪

1536
01:17:32,133 --> 01:17:34,709
And then he said,
"I started from nothing

1537
01:17:34,733 --> 01:17:36,042
and built a theater
from nothing,

1538
01:17:36,066 --> 01:17:37,842
and it was very fine.

1539
01:17:37,866 --> 01:17:39,809
{\an1}And then I married sweet Gail.

1540
01:17:39,833 --> 01:17:42,076
{\an1}And then my beautiful son
Tony got AIDS,

1541
01:17:42,100 --> 01:17:43,909
and then he died,

1542
01:17:43,933 --> 01:17:47,776
{\an1}and then I got sick and I died."

1543
01:17:47,800 --> 01:17:49,409
And I said,
"Well, Joe, you're not dead.

1544
01:17:49,433 --> 01:17:51,009
You're still here."

1545
01:17:51,033 --> 01:17:52,876
And he said, "I am?

1546
01:17:52,900 --> 01:17:54,542
{\an1}What the hell are you guys
doing around here?

1547
01:17:54,566 --> 01:17:57,276
{\an1}Can't you see I'm trying to die?
What's the problem?"

1548
01:17:57,300 --> 01:18:05,300
{\an8}♪♪

1549
01:18:13,266 --> 01:18:14,842
[ Birds chirping ]

1550
01:18:14,866 --> 01:18:16,876
{\an8}♪♪

1551
01:18:16,900 --> 01:18:20,142
{\an1}-Joe was extremely weak
and debilitated then,

1552
01:18:20,166 --> 01:18:22,442
and there were times
when he couldn't walk,

1553
01:18:22,466 --> 01:18:26,342
{\an1}but he would have remissions.

1554
01:18:26,366 --> 01:18:29,909
{\an1}And so he made a sudden decision

1555
01:18:29,933 --> 01:18:32,442
{\an1}to go there one evening.

1556
01:18:32,466 --> 01:18:34,009
{\an1}I could hardly believe it.

1557
01:18:34,033 --> 01:18:35,542
I can't tell you
the kind of effort that was

1558
01:18:35,566 --> 01:18:39,242
because he was
in a great deal of pain.

1559
01:18:39,266 --> 01:18:42,342
-It was incredible
to drive into the park,

1560
01:18:42,366 --> 01:18:44,209
{\an1}into the Delacorte Theater.

1561
01:18:44,233 --> 01:18:46,209
{\an1}They were rehearsing "Othello,"

1562
01:18:46,233 --> 01:18:49,476
with Chris Walken
and Raul Julia.

1563
01:18:49,500 --> 01:18:52,976
And when he came
into the theater,

1564
01:18:53,000 --> 01:18:55,276
{\an1}it was... it was magical.

1565
01:18:55,300 --> 01:18:57,209
{\an8}They sat backstage

1566
01:18:57,233 --> 01:18:58,676
{\an7}on these picnic tables

1567
01:18:58,700 --> 01:19:01,676
{\an7}and talked to each other.

1568
01:19:01,700 --> 01:19:04,509
{\an8}It was like a king
and his subjects.

1569
01:19:04,533 --> 01:19:07,376
{\an8}♪♪

1570
01:19:07,400 --> 01:19:11,509
{\an1}-The beginning of the show
often happened in the daylight.

1571
01:19:11,533 --> 01:19:13,976
And I came on
and I did my scene,

1572
01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:18,642
{\an1}and I'm talking right to Joe,

1573
01:19:18,666 --> 01:19:20,142
{\an1}and he was smiling at me.

1574
01:19:20,166 --> 01:19:21,176
And I went off.

1575
01:19:21,200 --> 01:19:23,876
And when I came back,
it was dark.

1576
01:19:23,900 --> 01:19:25,433
Hm.

1577
01:19:27,333 --> 01:19:29,366
{\an1}The last time I saw him.

1578
01:19:31,966 --> 01:19:37,276
{\an1}-♪ They used to tell me
I was building a dream ♪

1579
01:19:37,300 --> 01:19:39,042
{\an8}♪♪

1580
01:19:39,066 --> 01:19:43,742
{\an1}♪ With peace and glory ahead ♪

1581
01:19:43,766 --> 01:19:49,966
♪ Why should I be
standing in line ♪

1582
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:57,609
{\an1}♪ Just waiting for bread? ♪

1583
01:19:57,633 --> 01:20:00,842
{\an8}♪♪

1584
01:20:00,866 --> 01:20:04,842
{\an1}♪ Once I built a railroad ♪

1585
01:20:04,866 --> 01:20:08,509
♪ I made it run ♪

1586
01:20:08,533 --> 01:20:12,809
{\an1}♪ Made it race against time ♪

1587
01:20:12,833 --> 01:20:14,709
{\an8}♪♪

1588
01:20:14,733 --> 01:20:18,909
{\an1}♪ Once I built a railroad ♪

1589
01:20:18,933 --> 01:20:21,776
♪ Now it's done ♪

1590
01:20:21,800 --> 01:20:25,976
♪ Brother,
can you spare a dime? ♪

1591
01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:29,009
{\an8}♪♪

1592
01:20:29,033 --> 01:20:32,842
{\an1}♪ Once I built a tower ♪

1593
01:20:32,866 --> 01:20:36,242
♪ To the sun ♪

1594
01:20:36,266 --> 01:20:40,509
{\an1}♪ Brick and rivet and lime ♪

1595
01:20:40,533 --> 01:20:43,042
{\an8}♪♪

1596
01:20:43,066 --> 01:20:46,776
{\an1}♪ Once I built a tower ♪

1597
01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:49,576
♪ Now it's done ♪

1598
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:53,733
♪ Brother,
can you spare a dime? ♪

1599
01:20:57,066 --> 01:21:05,066
{\an8}♪♪