1 00:00:15,460 --> 00:00:17,100 Hello. 2 00:00:17,100 --> 00:00:21,180 Chelsea Bonner has been a modelling agent for most of her career 3 00:00:21,180 --> 00:00:23,700 after growing up in a celebrity family 4 00:00:23,700 --> 00:00:23,980 after growing up in a celebrity family where both parents were revered for their beauty. 5 00:00:23,980 --> 00:00:26,540 where both parents were revered for their beauty. 6 00:00:26,540 --> 00:00:30,500 Australian Story first met Chelsea eight years ago 7 00:00:30,500 --> 00:00:32,020 when she was on a mission 8 00:00:32,020 --> 00:00:34,580 to introduce more diversity into modelling. 9 00:00:34,580 --> 00:00:37,380 But just when real inroads were being made, 10 00:00:37,380 --> 00:00:40,500 Chelsea Bonner found a new battlefront opening up. 11 00:00:45,180 --> 00:00:49,060 CHELSEA: What you're looking at here is all completely computer-generated. 12 00:00:49,060 --> 00:00:51,940 So, this person does not exist at all. 13 00:00:52,940 --> 00:00:55,700 I first came across artificial intelligence 14 00:00:55,700 --> 00:00:57,940 probably 12 months ago, really. 15 00:00:58,820 --> 00:01:02,060 It surprised me how easy it was, actually, 16 00:01:02,060 --> 00:01:04,900 to find the information I needed to find 17 00:01:04,900 --> 00:01:07,740 in order to learn how to make AI for myself. 18 00:01:07,740 --> 00:01:14,340 With this app, you have to upload 15 to 30 photographs of yourself, 19 00:01:14,340 --> 00:01:21,580 and I can go through to any of these packs that I want to 20 00:01:21,580 --> 00:01:21,820 and I can go through to and make myself any of these images. 21 00:01:21,820 --> 00:01:24,540 and make myself any of these images. 22 00:01:25,660 --> 00:01:28,900 So, these are some of the images that I made of myself 23 00:01:28,900 --> 00:01:33,460 from the featured theme pack, which is called Black Lace. 24 00:01:33,460 --> 00:01:36,940 This is the body it's come up with for me. 25 00:01:36,940 --> 00:01:37,180 This is the body So, this is the default. 26 00:01:37,180 --> 00:01:38,980 So, this is the default. 27 00:01:38,980 --> 00:01:42,020 That's not what I look like at all. That's not my body shape at all. 28 00:01:43,180 --> 00:01:47,220 One of the most disturbing things that I noticed in my research 29 00:01:47,220 --> 00:01:52,460 around women's images being used for AI purposes 30 00:01:52,460 --> 00:01:52,700 around women's images being used is the heaviness of the male gaze. 31 00:01:52,700 --> 00:01:56,340 is the heaviness of the male gaze. 32 00:01:56,340 --> 00:01:59,540 It's sort of like the anime version 33 00:01:59,540 --> 00:01:59,780 of what men think It's sort of like the anime version 34 00:01:59,780 --> 00:02:03,060 of what men think women should look like. 35 00:02:03,060 --> 00:02:06,780 So I...you know, to get the most realistic images of myself, 36 00:02:06,780 --> 00:02:12,300 I have to go back in and prompt it to make it look more real. 37 00:02:12,300 --> 00:02:16,860 So, that's my AI trained to be curvier 38 00:02:16,860 --> 00:02:20,060 and to have more natural skin folds and things like that. 39 00:02:21,540 --> 00:02:27,500 The last thing I ever thought I would ever be is an AI expert, 40 00:02:27,500 --> 00:02:31,100 but I had to learn it in order to undo it. 41 00:02:32,620 --> 00:02:35,820 So, trending now is black leather. 42 00:02:35,820 --> 00:02:38,460 This is my Halloween outfit, maybe, this year. 43 00:02:38,460 --> 00:02:38,700 This is my Halloween outfit, This new AI technology, 44 00:02:38,700 --> 00:02:40,980 This new AI technology, 45 00:02:40,980 --> 00:02:44,620 I really feel like it's taken us back 20 years, 46 00:02:44,620 --> 00:02:50,180 because all the hard, HARD won fights we've had 47 00:02:50,180 --> 00:02:51,860 to get to this point in time 48 00:02:51,860 --> 00:02:56,060 where true inclusion is finally being represented, 49 00:02:56,060 --> 00:02:56,300 where true inclusion and to have that overtaken now, 50 00:02:56,300 --> 00:02:59,100 and to have that overtaken now, 51 00:02:59,100 --> 00:03:05,140 and not even not have real human diversity but no real humans, 52 00:03:05,140 --> 00:03:10,740 is just...I can't even...it's a cataclysmic step backwards in time. 53 00:03:19,420 --> 00:03:22,340 WOMAN: So, we'll do some nice, soft smiles to begin with. 54 00:03:22,340 --> 00:03:22,580 WOMAN: So, we'll do some nice, soft smiles to begin with. Yeah, perfect, perfect. 55 00:03:22,580 --> 00:03:24,460 Yeah, perfect, perfect. 56 00:03:24,460 --> 00:03:25,700 That's nice. 57 00:03:25,700 --> 00:03:27,500 (CHUCKLES) So gorgeous. 58 00:03:27,500 --> 00:03:30,220 When I first started working in this industry, 59 00:03:30,220 --> 00:03:30,460 When I first started there was no real inclusion at all. 60 00:03:30,460 --> 00:03:32,300 there was no real inclusion at all. 61 00:03:32,300 --> 00:03:36,380 Everybody that was supposed to be representative of society 62 00:03:36,380 --> 00:03:42,980 was a 5'9" white, normally blonde, or maybe brunette, woman. 63 00:03:42,980 --> 00:03:44,420 Yeah, lovely. 64 00:03:44,420 --> 00:03:49,300 And they were always a size 8 to a maximum of size 10. 65 00:03:49,300 --> 00:03:49,540 And they were always a size 8 I love that. Yes. 66 00:03:49,540 --> 00:03:51,500 I love that. Yes. 67 00:03:51,500 --> 00:03:55,540 And over the last 20 years, we've made huge inroads 68 00:03:55,540 --> 00:03:59,580 into size diversity, into ethnic inclusion, 69 00:03:59,580 --> 00:03:59,860 into the use of models with different abilities and disabilities. into size diversity, into ethnic inclusion, 70 00:03:59,860 --> 00:04:03,660 into the use of models with different abilities and disabilities. 71 00:04:03,660 --> 00:04:03,900 into the use of models with different abilities and disabilities. What I think is so amazing 72 00:04:03,900 --> 00:04:06,180 What I think is so amazing 73 00:04:06,180 --> 00:04:08,980 is that change happens from real people! 74 00:04:08,980 --> 00:04:11,140 Yes. If you want to see change, you have to create it. 75 00:04:11,140 --> 00:04:11,380 Yes. If you want to see change, Yes. Yes. 76 00:04:11,380 --> 00:04:12,180 Yes. Yes. 77 00:04:12,180 --> 00:04:12,420 You can't just yell at other people Yes. Yes. 78 00:04:12,420 --> 00:04:13,900 You can't just yell at other people to do it. 79 00:04:13,900 --> 00:04:15,020 That's right. Sure. 80 00:04:15,020 --> 00:04:18,620 WOMAN: Chelsea, she's always trying to fix things that are broken. 81 00:04:18,620 --> 00:04:21,340 She's been put, you know, aside so often 82 00:04:21,340 --> 00:04:21,620 'cause so often, you know, our bodies weren't shown in media. She's been put, you know, aside so often 83 00:04:21,620 --> 00:04:24,860 'cause so often, you know, our bodies weren't shown in media. 84 00:04:24,860 --> 00:04:25,100 'cause so often, you know, So often, we were shoved aside, 85 00:04:25,100 --> 00:04:26,500 So often, we were shoved aside, 86 00:04:26,500 --> 00:04:26,740 So often, we were shoved aside, or so often, we were told that we were fat, basically. 87 00:04:26,740 --> 00:04:30,140 or so often, we were told that we were fat, basically. 88 00:04:30,140 --> 00:04:33,500 I think together we've really changed that. 89 00:04:33,500 --> 00:04:33,740 I think together Beautiful. Love. Gorgeous. 90 00:04:33,740 --> 00:04:36,140 Beautiful. Love. Gorgeous. 91 00:04:38,100 --> 00:04:40,620 ROBYN: And yet we're going to this new territory 92 00:04:40,620 --> 00:04:40,860 ROBYN: And yet we're going where we're not even... 93 00:04:40,860 --> 00:04:41,820 where we're not even... 94 00:04:41,820 --> 00:04:45,140 We're gonna to be fighting to use a human being in a campaign. 95 00:04:45,140 --> 00:04:46,740 That's gonna be the next fight. 96 00:04:46,740 --> 00:04:46,980 VIDEO NARRATOR: Wait, stop! This girl does not exist. That's gonna be the next fight. 97 00:04:46,980 --> 00:04:49,260 VIDEO NARRATOR: Wait, stop! This girl does not exist. 98 00:04:49,260 --> 00:04:50,540 She is fake. 99 00:04:50,540 --> 00:04:50,780 She is fake. CHELSEA: So, when I first started looking into AI 100 00:04:50,780 --> 00:04:54,140 CHELSEA: So, when I first started looking into AI 101 00:04:54,140 --> 00:04:54,380 CHELSEA: So, when I first in my industry specifically, 102 00:04:54,380 --> 00:04:56,180 in my industry specifically, 103 00:04:56,180 --> 00:04:56,420 you know, I thought it would be in my industry specifically, 104 00:04:56,420 --> 00:04:59,340 you know, I thought it would be about saving jobs, 105 00:04:59,340 --> 00:05:02,980 and then I realised that it's just so much more than that. 106 00:05:02,980 --> 00:05:03,220 and then I realised that Everybody is affected by this. 107 00:05:03,220 --> 00:05:05,540 Everybody is affected by this. 108 00:05:07,700 --> 00:05:13,260 I could scan that now and train the AI on your face. 109 00:05:13,260 --> 00:05:15,340 I mean, I could do a whole campaign in London 110 00:05:15,340 --> 00:05:19,660 using your face and selling lipstick, and you'd probably never find out. 111 00:05:19,660 --> 00:05:19,900 using your face and selling lipstick, My mum was a top model of her time. 112 00:05:19,900 --> 00:05:21,900 My mum was a top model of her time. 113 00:05:21,900 --> 00:05:23,580 She had a really, really good career 114 00:05:23,580 --> 00:05:23,820 and, you know, she was always She had a really, really good career 115 00:05:23,820 --> 00:05:25,740 and, you know, she was always really in demand. 116 00:05:25,740 --> 00:05:25,980 and, you know, she was always WOMAN: That was one of my first. 117 00:05:25,980 --> 00:05:28,380 WOMAN: That was one of my first. 118 00:05:28,380 --> 00:05:32,140 How old were you? Um, about 19, I think. 119 00:05:32,140 --> 00:05:34,660 I did my own make-up and hair for those. 120 00:05:34,660 --> 00:05:35,700 Yeah. 121 00:05:35,700 --> 00:05:35,940 Being on set for me Yeah. 122 00:05:35,940 --> 00:05:38,660 Being on set for me is like a second home. 123 00:05:38,660 --> 00:05:41,260 When I was a baby, Mum took me to all her shoots with her. 124 00:05:41,260 --> 00:05:43,820 I used to take you with me in your little stroller. 125 00:05:43,820 --> 00:05:44,060 I used to take you with me (CHUCKLES) Yeah. 126 00:05:44,060 --> 00:05:45,180 (CHUCKLES) Yeah. 127 00:05:45,180 --> 00:05:47,820 And my dad was a really famous actor. 128 00:05:47,820 --> 00:05:48,060 And as I got older, I went And my dad was a really famous actor. 129 00:05:48,060 --> 00:05:52,100 And as I got older, I went to my dad's movie sets with him. 130 00:05:52,100 --> 00:05:52,340 And as I got older, I went THEME MUSIC: # Skippy, Skippy... # 131 00:05:52,340 --> 00:05:55,300 THEME MUSIC: # Skippy, Skippy... # 132 00:05:55,300 --> 00:05:56,820 TONY BONNER: Back in that period, 133 00:05:56,820 --> 00:06:01,060 Skippy was not only the biggest show in this country, 134 00:06:01,060 --> 00:06:01,340 it was the most successful show internationally ever. Skippy was not only the biggest show in this country, 135 00:06:01,340 --> 00:06:05,340 it was the most successful show internationally ever. 136 00:06:08,700 --> 00:06:12,580 My parents were the golden couple of Australia 137 00:06:12,580 --> 00:06:12,820 when I was growing up. My parents were the golden couple of Australia 138 00:06:12,820 --> 00:06:13,900 when I was growing up. 139 00:06:13,900 --> 00:06:16,860 They were on the cover of every magazine 140 00:06:16,860 --> 00:06:17,140 They were on the cover of every magazine and, you know, paparazzi followed them everywhere. 141 00:06:17,140 --> 00:06:20,020 and, you know, paparazzi followed them everywhere. 142 00:06:21,740 --> 00:06:23,980 WOMAN: We used to call them 'Ken and Barbie'. 143 00:06:23,980 --> 00:06:26,860 Couldn't get two more perfect-looking people, really. 144 00:06:26,860 --> 00:06:27,100 It was, um, disturbing. (CHUCKLES) perfect-looking people, really. 145 00:06:27,100 --> 00:06:30,020 It was, um, disturbing. (CHUCKLES) 146 00:06:31,300 --> 00:06:33,740 And all the boys wanted to date my mum 147 00:06:33,740 --> 00:06:38,860 and all the girls would just nearly faint when Dad walked into the room. 148 00:06:38,860 --> 00:06:42,180 He could barely drop us at school, because he would get... 149 00:06:42,180 --> 00:06:45,380 ..parents would be, like, going, "Oh, my God! It's Tony Bonner!" 150 00:06:49,780 --> 00:06:52,500 I think the strongest memory I have of my childhood 151 00:06:52,500 --> 00:06:55,900 was waiting for the phone every afternoon. 152 00:06:55,900 --> 00:06:59,700 One of my parents would have to be home between 4:30 and 5:30 every day 153 00:06:59,700 --> 00:07:02,140 to get their call from their agents 154 00:07:02,140 --> 00:07:06,340 so they knew what jobs they were doing next week, tomorrow. 155 00:07:06,340 --> 00:07:09,860 And it was, like, all time stopped in that hour. 156 00:07:11,260 --> 00:07:15,380 NOLA: Tony was always very, "Can't be on the phone. 157 00:07:15,380 --> 00:07:16,660 "Who are you talking to? 158 00:07:16,660 --> 00:07:16,900 "How long will you be? I'm waiting for a call." "Who are you talking to? 159 00:07:16,900 --> 00:07:18,780 "How long will you be? I'm waiting for a call." 160 00:07:20,940 --> 00:07:22,980 It could be the best news ever, 161 00:07:22,980 --> 00:07:26,460 and then the whole house would be, you know, like, "Whoo-hoo!" 162 00:07:28,220 --> 00:07:29,980 Or it could be, you know, really bad, 163 00:07:29,980 --> 00:07:33,860 and that would totally change the mood in the house, you know? 164 00:07:33,860 --> 00:07:37,460 So, I just...early on, I wanted to be the person 165 00:07:37,460 --> 00:07:40,660 who was in control of that mood, I guess. 166 00:07:41,620 --> 00:07:45,220 I knew very early on I wanted to be an agent. 167 00:07:45,220 --> 00:07:48,100 I wanted to be the person that got to give the good news, 168 00:07:48,100 --> 00:07:52,460 but I also wanted to be the person who could break the bad news gently, 169 00:07:52,460 --> 00:07:53,860 'cause that was the hardest part. 170 00:07:55,620 --> 00:07:58,900 According to the outside world, we were supposed to be 171 00:07:58,900 --> 00:08:05,540 the perfect blond-haired, blue-eyed Australian family. 172 00:08:05,540 --> 00:08:09,500 And it wasn't necessarily so, so you felt a bit deceitful. 173 00:08:10,700 --> 00:08:13,180 No, no, no. Fill it up. Are you sure, son? 174 00:08:13,180 --> 00:08:16,020 CHELSEA: Dad was a binge drinker, so he didn't drink daily, 175 00:08:16,020 --> 00:08:16,260 CHELSEA: Dad was a binge drinker, but when he drank, he drank. 176 00:08:16,260 --> 00:08:17,780 but when he drank, he drank. 177 00:08:19,300 --> 00:08:22,900 My drinking period DID affect the family, 178 00:08:22,900 --> 00:08:23,140 My drinking period because I wouldn't be there. 179 00:08:23,140 --> 00:08:24,900 because I wouldn't be there. 180 00:08:24,900 --> 00:08:28,020 I mean, if I could stay out, I did. 181 00:08:32,540 --> 00:08:35,340 Dad was one of those drunks, you know, that... 182 00:08:35,340 --> 00:08:38,260 ..they call them blackout drunks - so, they do all these crazy things 183 00:08:38,260 --> 00:08:39,940 and they have absolutely no memory of it. 184 00:08:41,380 --> 00:08:44,820 SKYE: Everyone just played their role on how to handle it. 185 00:08:44,820 --> 00:08:48,540 Chelsea took charge of looking after us, in a way. 186 00:08:48,540 --> 00:08:51,420 She was just a peacemaker and she was the older sister 187 00:08:51,420 --> 00:08:51,660 She was just a peacemaker and you felt safe. 188 00:08:51,660 --> 00:08:52,740 and you felt safe. 189 00:08:54,540 --> 00:08:57,180 Harry. (WHISTLES) Huggy! 190 00:08:57,180 --> 00:09:00,860 CHELSEA: All credit to Dad, you know, he gave up drinking 27 years ago 191 00:09:00,860 --> 00:09:01,100 CHELSEA: All credit to Dad, you know, and hasn't touched a drop since. 192 00:09:01,100 --> 00:09:03,740 and hasn't touched a drop since. 193 00:09:03,740 --> 00:09:07,500 Yeah, so, what are you up to today? Oh, I'm teaching this afternoon. 194 00:09:07,500 --> 00:09:09,900 CHELSEA: He's tried really hard to make amends, 195 00:09:09,900 --> 00:09:13,460 and you have to admire someone who does that, 196 00:09:13,460 --> 00:09:13,700 and you have to admire someone because a lot of people wouldn't. 197 00:09:13,700 --> 00:09:15,460 because a lot of people wouldn't. 198 00:09:15,460 --> 00:09:19,260 But then, you know, you still... you're left with the battle scars. 199 00:09:19,260 --> 00:09:19,500 But then, you know, you still... They're still there. 200 00:09:19,500 --> 00:09:20,500 They're still there. 201 00:09:21,940 --> 00:09:24,620 When puberty hit, just everything changed, 202 00:09:24,620 --> 00:09:24,860 When puberty hit, because overnight I got these boobs. 203 00:09:24,860 --> 00:09:27,740 because overnight I got these boobs. 204 00:09:27,740 --> 00:09:31,780 Everything started to get much curvier than it was before, 205 00:09:31,780 --> 00:09:35,460 and I started to notice a difference between my shape and Mum's shape. 206 00:09:35,460 --> 00:09:35,740 And I remember looking at Chelsea one day and going, and I started to notice a difference between my shape and Mum's shape. 207 00:09:35,740 --> 00:09:38,220 And I remember looking at Chelsea one day and going, 208 00:09:38,220 --> 00:09:38,460 "Wow. Look at that figure." one day and going, 209 00:09:38,460 --> 00:09:40,100 "Wow. Look at that figure." 210 00:09:40,100 --> 00:09:40,340 "Wow. Look at that figure." She had the most beautiful hourglass figure. 211 00:09:40,340 --> 00:09:42,740 She had the most beautiful hourglass figure. 212 00:09:43,900 --> 00:09:47,180 I decided to go to an adult modelling agency 213 00:09:47,180 --> 00:09:49,500 to see if they would take me. 214 00:09:49,500 --> 00:09:51,540 I think that's when she realised 215 00:09:51,540 --> 00:09:56,700 that there's an industry there that looks at you differently. 216 00:09:58,100 --> 00:10:03,180 CHELSEA: And they said I was too curvy and needed to lose weight. 217 00:10:03,180 --> 00:10:05,660 I think it was the first time you sort of have that realisation 218 00:10:05,660 --> 00:10:08,820 that, "Oh, hang on, there's road blocks here." 219 00:10:09,780 --> 00:10:13,060 Then other people started making comments about, 220 00:10:13,060 --> 00:10:16,300 "Oh, you'd be so beautiful if you just lost a few pounds." 221 00:10:17,700 --> 00:10:19,420 One night, I was walking down the street 222 00:10:19,420 --> 00:10:21,700 and I was surrounded by a group of men 223 00:10:21,700 --> 00:10:24,700 that just oinked at me, like I was a... 224 00:10:24,700 --> 00:10:27,060 ..you know, trying to say I'm a pig, I'm a fat pig, you know. 225 00:10:28,900 --> 00:10:31,380 Just the judgement, just the amount of judgement, 226 00:10:31,380 --> 00:10:31,620 Just the judgement, you know, and the comparison - 227 00:10:31,620 --> 00:10:32,980 you know, and the comparison - 228 00:10:32,980 --> 00:10:35,620 constant comparisons to my sister and my mum. 229 00:10:36,700 --> 00:10:41,300 People's comments about my size started a cycle of... 230 00:10:41,300 --> 00:10:41,540 People's comments about my size ..you know, of self-abuse, really - 231 00:10:41,540 --> 00:10:43,540 ..you know, of self-abuse, really - 232 00:10:43,540 --> 00:10:45,020 abuse of food, 233 00:10:45,020 --> 00:10:50,100 abuse of prescription drugs to, you know, help me starve myself. 234 00:10:50,100 --> 00:10:52,060 I started drinking really young. 235 00:10:54,500 --> 00:10:56,780 I left school at around 15. 236 00:10:56,780 --> 00:11:01,940 I was just so angry. I was so angry at the situation, at the world. 237 00:11:01,940 --> 00:11:02,220 And I remember being in tears with her so many times, I was just so angry. I was so angry at the situation, at the world. 238 00:11:02,220 --> 00:11:05,020 And I remember being in tears with her so many times, 239 00:11:05,020 --> 00:11:06,060 just like, "You're gonna die. 240 00:11:06,060 --> 00:11:07,940 "You know, what are you doing to yourself?" 241 00:11:10,340 --> 00:11:16,180 There was a moment in my life where I could have easily gone either way. 242 00:11:16,180 --> 00:11:21,220 I woke up on the floor of my bathroom in the middle of winter 243 00:11:21,220 --> 00:11:21,460 I woke up on the floor of my bathroom after drinking all night. 244 00:11:21,460 --> 00:11:23,380 after drinking all night. 245 00:11:24,620 --> 00:11:30,020 Just I really thought to myself, "This is ridiculous. Get it together. 246 00:11:30,020 --> 00:11:32,460 "You know, you're not just hurting yourself, 247 00:11:32,460 --> 00:11:34,300 "you're hurting everybody around you. 248 00:11:34,300 --> 00:11:34,540 "you're hurting everybody "That is not who I want to be, 249 00:11:34,540 --> 00:11:35,940 "That is not who I want to be, 250 00:11:35,940 --> 00:11:41,500 "and I am just going to find a way to make my life work." 251 00:11:45,700 --> 00:11:46,980 After working really hard 252 00:11:46,980 --> 00:11:47,220 and working every contact I had After working really hard 253 00:11:47,220 --> 00:11:50,620 and working every contact I had and Mum had and Dad had, 254 00:11:50,620 --> 00:11:55,620 I finally got a position as, you know, a junior in a modelling agency. 255 00:11:55,620 --> 00:12:00,180 MAN: With any models, you need to be their psychologist, 256 00:12:00,180 --> 00:12:02,060 you need to be their father, their mother, 257 00:12:02,060 --> 00:12:04,580 and you need to be their business consultant as well. 258 00:12:04,580 --> 00:12:04,860 It's a natural talent, and Chelsea has that natural talent. and you need to be their business consultant as well. 259 00:12:04,860 --> 00:12:08,420 It's a natural talent, and Chelsea has that natural talent. 260 00:12:09,900 --> 00:12:11,340 Good, beautiful. Yeah. 261 00:12:11,340 --> 00:12:13,300 CHELSEA: So, through my job, I started to notice 262 00:12:13,300 --> 00:12:17,900 there was a demand for bigger models, which are called 'plus-size' models, 263 00:12:17,900 --> 00:12:18,140 there was a demand for bigger models, and that's anyone over a size 14. 264 00:12:18,140 --> 00:12:21,180 and that's anyone over a size 14. 265 00:12:21,180 --> 00:12:22,300 It was really good money, 266 00:12:22,300 --> 00:12:24,180 so I started doing some modelling on the side. 267 00:12:25,460 --> 00:12:28,340 WOMAN: The sad thing about plus-size modelling back in those days 268 00:12:28,340 --> 00:12:28,580 WOMAN: The sad thing about plus-size was you WERE the token fat chick. 269 00:12:28,580 --> 00:12:30,180 was you WERE the token fat chick. 270 00:12:30,180 --> 00:12:32,060 You were only brought in because 271 00:12:32,060 --> 00:12:32,260 you were big, you know? You were only brought in because 272 00:12:32,260 --> 00:12:34,260 you were big, you know? 273 00:12:34,260 --> 00:12:36,980 You weren't brought in because you were beautiful. 274 00:12:38,660 --> 00:12:40,500 CHELSEA: I noticed there was a huge difference 275 00:12:40,500 --> 00:12:40,740 CHELSEA: I noticed between how they would dress us 276 00:12:40,740 --> 00:12:43,020 between how they would dress us 277 00:12:43,020 --> 00:12:43,260 and how the size 6 girl sitting next to me, she would get made up between how they would dress us 278 00:12:43,260 --> 00:12:46,980 and how the size 6 girl sitting next to me, she would get made up 279 00:12:46,980 --> 00:12:47,220 to look all beautiful and fresh next to me, she would get made up 280 00:12:47,220 --> 00:12:48,580 to look all beautiful and fresh 281 00:12:48,580 --> 00:12:48,780 to look all beautiful and fresh and young and glowy, 282 00:12:48,780 --> 00:12:50,700 and young and glowy, 283 00:12:50,700 --> 00:12:54,500 and I'd be made up to look as old and dowdy 284 00:12:54,500 --> 00:12:54,740 and I'd be made up as I possibly could look! (LAUGHS) 285 00:12:54,740 --> 00:12:57,300 as I possibly could look! (LAUGHS) 286 00:12:58,820 --> 00:13:03,140 REBECCA: And unfortunately, what they thought their target market was 287 00:13:03,140 --> 00:13:03,380 REBECCA: And unfortunately, what was...skivvies. 288 00:13:03,380 --> 00:13:05,620 was...skivvies. 289 00:13:10,660 --> 00:13:12,980 CHELSEA: I decided to set up a modelling agency 290 00:13:12,980 --> 00:13:17,220 for models who represent 80% of the women in this country - 291 00:13:17,220 --> 00:13:19,660 so, models over a size 10. 292 00:13:19,660 --> 00:13:21,700 Morning. ALL: Morning. 293 00:13:21,700 --> 00:13:27,660 When almost every model is a size 6 to 8, maybe a 10, 294 00:13:27,660 --> 00:13:27,900 When almost every model is it's a massive gap. 295 00:13:27,900 --> 00:13:29,220 it's a massive gap. 296 00:13:29,220 --> 00:13:31,180 I don't think there's anything she can do... 297 00:13:31,180 --> 00:13:34,180 My mission from the start has been to try to close that gap. 298 00:13:34,180 --> 00:13:36,500 You know, I think there's room for everybody. 299 00:13:36,500 --> 00:13:41,260 So, OK, so, they've moved that whole thing out till April now. 300 00:13:41,260 --> 00:13:43,780 REBECCA: You know, she's been told so many times, 301 00:13:43,780 --> 00:13:45,620 "It's not gonna happen. 302 00:13:45,620 --> 00:13:45,860 "You'll never see a plus-size model, "It's not gonna happen. 303 00:13:45,860 --> 00:13:50,260 "You'll never see a plus-size model, you know, having a hair contract 304 00:13:50,260 --> 00:13:53,500 "or be on the front page of a magazine." 305 00:13:54,780 --> 00:14:00,260 I didn't have any expectations of being financially successful from it. 306 00:14:00,260 --> 00:14:04,540 It was never about making money. It was about trying to change ideas. 307 00:14:08,740 --> 00:14:11,500 We're going for, sort of, a very natural, glowy skin, 308 00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:11,740 We're going for, sort of, youthful sort of look. 309 00:14:11,740 --> 00:14:12,980 youthful sort of look. 310 00:14:12,980 --> 00:14:16,100 One of the first things I did when I started the agency 311 00:14:16,100 --> 00:14:19,780 was to hire the top photographers and hair and make-up artists in fashion 312 00:14:19,780 --> 00:14:20,020 was to hire the top photographers and that I could find 313 00:14:20,020 --> 00:14:21,700 that I could find 314 00:14:21,700 --> 00:14:26,260 to shoot curve models in a way that was fashionable. 315 00:14:27,340 --> 00:14:29,260 Great. Beautiful. 316 00:14:29,260 --> 00:14:29,500 REBECCA: She was Great. Beautiful. 317 00:14:29,500 --> 00:14:30,660 REBECCA: She was getting photographers 318 00:14:30,660 --> 00:14:30,900 REBECCA: She was to actually shoot her girls, 319 00:14:30,900 --> 00:14:32,460 to actually shoot her girls, 320 00:14:32,460 --> 00:14:36,300 to show the industry that you don't have to be a frumpy person 321 00:14:36,300 --> 00:14:36,540 to show the industry that because you're a plus size. 322 00:14:36,540 --> 00:14:38,020 because you're a plus size. 323 00:14:40,940 --> 00:14:43,940 I'd been running Bella for quite a few years 324 00:14:43,940 --> 00:14:44,180 I'd been running Bella and we were doing very well. 325 00:14:44,180 --> 00:14:45,620 and we were doing very well. 326 00:14:47,300 --> 00:14:50,940 I had had an art director ring me and say, 327 00:14:50,940 --> 00:14:52,660 "I met this girl at a casting the other day 328 00:14:52,660 --> 00:14:56,020 "and she was really beautiful but she's clearly curvy, 329 00:14:56,020 --> 00:14:59,060 "so I've suggested that she come in to meet you." 330 00:15:00,460 --> 00:15:02,700 WOMAN: This was my last shot, in my opinion. 331 00:15:02,700 --> 00:15:05,380 I was like, "If she doesn't sign me, then I'm just gonna quit 332 00:15:05,380 --> 00:15:07,380 "and just continue just travelling the world 333 00:15:07,380 --> 00:15:07,620 "and just doing my own thing." just travelling the world 334 00:15:07,620 --> 00:15:08,780 "and just doing my own thing." 335 00:15:10,620 --> 00:15:14,220 And she came in and I was sitting in my chair, 336 00:15:14,220 --> 00:15:14,460 And she came in and I went, "Oh, my golly gosh! 337 00:15:14,460 --> 00:15:19,380 and I went, "Oh, my golly gosh! 338 00:15:19,380 --> 00:15:22,620 "She is EXTRAORDINARY." 339 00:15:22,620 --> 00:15:23,940 Here's your coffee. 340 00:15:23,940 --> 00:15:26,180 Thank you. No worries. 341 00:15:26,180 --> 00:15:28,860 I immediately could see where she was gonna go 342 00:15:28,860 --> 00:15:34,180 and that she was going to be the bridge between fashion 343 00:15:34,180 --> 00:15:37,100 and, you know, curve, or plus, modelling. 344 00:15:38,820 --> 00:15:42,780 She would be the visual articulation of what I was trying to express. 345 00:15:42,780 --> 00:15:43,020 She would be the visual articulation Just make sure you get lots of rest. 346 00:15:43,020 --> 00:15:44,220 Just make sure you get lots of rest. 347 00:15:44,220 --> 00:15:45,740 ROBYN: She's like, "Don't change anything." 348 00:15:45,740 --> 00:15:48,020 You know, "Don't... You're perfect as is. 349 00:15:48,020 --> 00:15:50,580 "You're gonna travel the world. You're gonna do so good. 350 00:15:50,580 --> 00:15:51,740 "This is just the beginning." 351 00:15:51,740 --> 00:15:54,860 And I was like, "Pull the other leg. I've been told this all before." 352 00:15:54,860 --> 00:15:55,100 And I was like, "Pull the other leg. This is a new cover. 353 00:15:55,100 --> 00:15:56,660 This is a new cover. 354 00:15:56,660 --> 00:16:00,260 As soon as Robyn walked out of the meeting, I rang my mum. 355 00:16:01,540 --> 00:16:04,580 She said, "Mum! Mum! 356 00:16:04,580 --> 00:16:09,100 "I've just found the new supermodel of the world!" 357 00:16:09,100 --> 00:16:12,420 Not 'plus-size supermodel' - supermodel. 358 00:16:16,620 --> 00:16:20,500 ROBYN: I remember booking my first real big Cosmo editorial 359 00:16:20,500 --> 00:16:23,260 and how much of a big deal that was back then, 360 00:16:23,260 --> 00:16:26,780 but to get the foot in the door, it took Chelsea nonstop calling. 361 00:16:26,780 --> 00:16:29,300 We're going to turn now to the woman they call 362 00:16:29,300 --> 00:16:31,780 the Plus-Size Wonder From Down Under. 363 00:16:31,780 --> 00:16:32,060 Robyn Lawley was the first plus-size model the Plus-Size Wonder From Down Under. 364 00:16:32,060 --> 00:16:34,500 Robyn Lawley was the first plus-size model 365 00:16:34,500 --> 00:16:37,100 to appear in the pages of Vogue Australia. 366 00:16:37,100 --> 00:16:37,380 to appear in the pages of Vogue Australia. I got called a 'pig'. I got called 'hefty'. 367 00:16:37,380 --> 00:16:39,700 I got called a 'pig'. I got called 'hefty'. 368 00:16:39,700 --> 00:16:41,020 AUDIENCE: Aw! It's fine. 369 00:16:41,020 --> 00:16:44,740 I'm really confident and I love... you know, I love my body as it is. 370 00:16:44,740 --> 00:16:47,500 But it was a shock, you know? (WILD CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) 371 00:16:47,500 --> 00:16:49,820 Yeah. We need women to say that. 372 00:16:49,820 --> 00:16:50,060 Yeah. Yeah. 373 00:16:50,060 --> 00:16:50,860 Yeah. 374 00:16:54,500 --> 00:16:58,260 I consider ourselves game-changers, yes, and a lot has changed. 375 00:16:58,260 --> 00:17:02,100 I think in 10 years, an industry has blossomed 376 00:17:02,100 --> 00:17:06,020 and we've finally seen what the power of diversity can bring. 377 00:17:07,940 --> 00:17:11,260 But now I'm fighting diversity in a whole different realm. 378 00:17:11,260 --> 00:17:11,540 But now I'm fighting diversity in a whole different realm. It's bizarre. I did not see this coming. And it's come so quick. 379 00:17:11,540 --> 00:17:14,980 It's bizarre. I did not see this coming. And it's come so quick. 380 00:17:18,780 --> 00:17:20,780 NOLA: About mid-last year, 381 00:17:20,780 --> 00:17:23,820 Chelsea told me that there are clients saying, 382 00:17:23,820 --> 00:17:24,100 "Oh, we're not using live models anymore, we're using AI." Chelsea told me that there are clients saying, 383 00:17:24,100 --> 00:17:28,100 "Oh, we're not using live models anymore, we're using AI." 384 00:17:28,100 --> 00:17:28,380 "Oh, we're not using live models anymore, we're using AI." I could see instantly how it was going to change her industry. 385 00:17:28,380 --> 00:17:31,940 I could see instantly how it was going to change her industry. 386 00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:37,060 CHELSEA: One of the first introductions I had 387 00:17:37,060 --> 00:17:41,620 to how it could be used in our industry 388 00:17:41,620 --> 00:17:47,140 was Levi's, who said that they could introduce more "diversity" 389 00:17:47,140 --> 00:17:49,940 into their advertising campaigns 390 00:17:49,940 --> 00:17:53,300 by using fake AI humans 391 00:17:53,300 --> 00:17:57,060 instead of just booking diverse talent. 392 00:17:57,060 --> 00:17:57,300 No-one would have picked up on it instead of just booking diverse talent. 393 00:17:57,300 --> 00:17:59,220 No-one would have picked up on it 394 00:17:59,220 --> 00:18:03,220 if they didn't decide to proudly use it as a branding exercise 395 00:18:03,220 --> 00:18:04,340 in, "Oh, isn't this great? 396 00:18:04,340 --> 00:18:04,540 in, "Oh, isn't this great? "We've got this new technology 397 00:18:04,540 --> 00:18:05,660 "We've got this new technology 398 00:18:05,660 --> 00:18:08,220 "where we can make all of our models diverse." 399 00:18:08,220 --> 00:18:13,180 And they were rightly getting, you know, ribbed about it in the press. 400 00:18:13,180 --> 00:18:15,580 ROBYN: I couldn't believe that it actually happened, 401 00:18:15,580 --> 00:18:17,300 because it was a brand I really loved. 402 00:18:17,300 --> 00:18:21,420 That doesn't seem like diversity to me. That seems like the opposite. 403 00:18:21,420 --> 00:18:24,700 Why not just hire, you know, a different model? 404 00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:28,180 You know, why do it through a digital blackface? 405 00:18:28,180 --> 00:18:31,780 And I think it's gonna take over a lot of jobs very quickly. 406 00:18:31,780 --> 00:18:34,580 The photographers aren't hired, the make-up artists aren't hired, 407 00:18:34,580 --> 00:18:34,820 The photographers aren't hired, the hairstylists aren't hired, 408 00:18:34,820 --> 00:18:36,500 the hairstylists aren't hired, 409 00:18:36,500 --> 00:18:39,700 the studio isn't hired, the film crew isn't hired. 410 00:18:39,700 --> 00:18:42,660 The whole industry isn't hired all of a sudden. 411 00:18:42,660 --> 00:18:44,900 It's not just one model trying to make a buck, 412 00:18:44,900 --> 00:18:47,500 it's a whole industry is going to suddenly collapse. 413 00:18:47,500 --> 00:18:47,740 it's a whole industry is Hi. 414 00:18:47,740 --> 00:18:49,180 Hi. 415 00:18:49,180 --> 00:18:50,860 Hey. 416 00:18:50,860 --> 00:18:53,420 How are you? Good. How are you going? 417 00:18:53,420 --> 00:18:56,020 And I started researching, well, who's doing something about this? 418 00:18:56,020 --> 00:18:59,140 It's actually just gonna crush the trust of the general public... 419 00:18:59,140 --> 00:19:01,060 Yeah. ..in what they're seeing. 420 00:19:01,060 --> 00:19:01,300 Yeah. Yeah, you can't trust any image. 421 00:19:01,300 --> 00:19:03,140 Yeah, you can't trust any image. 422 00:19:03,140 --> 00:19:05,940 And then Robyn called me and she said, 423 00:19:05,940 --> 00:19:07,420 "I've just written an article about AI." 424 00:19:07,420 --> 00:19:07,660 "I've just written I said, "Well, funny about that, 425 00:19:07,660 --> 00:19:08,940 I said, "Well, funny about that, 426 00:19:08,940 --> 00:19:11,780 "'cause I've just finished doing a whole heap of research about it, 427 00:19:11,780 --> 00:19:15,980 "and I've just read a book called Man-Made by Tracey Spicer." 428 00:19:15,980 --> 00:19:17,540 Hi! (LAUGHS) Hello! How are you? 429 00:19:17,540 --> 00:19:17,780 Hi! (LAUGHS) Good. How are you? 430 00:19:17,780 --> 00:19:18,780 Good. How are you? 431 00:19:18,780 --> 00:19:23,460 It was hard to read but really important, I think, 432 00:19:23,460 --> 00:19:23,700 It was hard to read to understand the scope of AI. 433 00:19:23,700 --> 00:19:26,380 to understand the scope of AI. 434 00:19:26,380 --> 00:19:27,820 Yeah, after reading your book 435 00:19:27,820 --> 00:19:28,060 and seeing how many industries are Yeah, after reading your book 436 00:19:28,060 --> 00:19:32,340 and seeing how many industries are actually going to be affected by it, 437 00:19:32,340 --> 00:19:34,180 I was, um, terrified. 438 00:19:34,180 --> 00:19:37,020 As you go down this rabbit hole, 439 00:19:37,020 --> 00:19:42,060 you realise that there's hundreds of thousands of these fake women 440 00:19:42,060 --> 00:19:42,300 you realise that there's hundreds out there on the internet, 441 00:19:42,300 --> 00:19:44,020 out there on the internet, 442 00:19:44,020 --> 00:19:44,260 and there's no rules, out there on the internet, 443 00:19:44,260 --> 00:19:46,500 and there's no rules, there's no laws, 444 00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:50,100 there's no stoppages, there's no content warnings - there's nothing. 445 00:19:50,100 --> 00:19:52,620 But, honestly, I did not think for a second 446 00:19:52,620 --> 00:19:56,940 that it would be the talking point that it is this year, for example. 447 00:19:56,940 --> 00:19:59,460 It's really come into the public consciousness. 448 00:19:59,460 --> 00:20:04,220 Yeah. I think because it's advanced so much, so quickly. 449 00:20:04,220 --> 00:20:05,980 That's right. You know, so... 450 00:20:05,980 --> 00:20:07,500 While people were looking the other way 451 00:20:07,500 --> 00:20:09,220 and governments were looking the other way. 452 00:20:09,220 --> 00:20:09,980 Yes. 453 00:20:09,980 --> 00:20:12,460 Legislation is not keeping up with the technology. 454 00:20:12,460 --> 00:20:16,220 Our futures are being created by a small group 455 00:20:16,220 --> 00:20:20,140 of predominantly young white men in Silicon Valley 456 00:20:20,140 --> 00:20:20,420 of predominantly young white men in Silicon Valley who are creating a future that looks good for them 457 00:20:20,420 --> 00:20:24,060 who are creating a future that looks good for them 458 00:20:24,060 --> 00:20:25,540 but not for everybody else. 459 00:20:25,540 --> 00:20:28,860 I was really surprised to see how easy it was 460 00:20:28,860 --> 00:20:31,940 to take anyone's image off the internet 461 00:20:31,940 --> 00:20:32,180 to take anyone's image and make a nude photo from it. 462 00:20:32,180 --> 00:20:33,740 and make a nude photo from it. 463 00:20:33,740 --> 00:20:36,140 It's terrifying, isn't it? It's terrifying! 464 00:20:36,140 --> 00:20:38,140 And I imagine if this was done to you without your consent, 465 00:20:38,140 --> 00:20:38,380 And I imagine if this was done you'd feel violated. 466 00:20:38,380 --> 00:20:39,500 you'd feel violated. 467 00:20:39,500 --> 00:20:42,220 You can't tell that that's not really you. 468 00:20:42,220 --> 00:20:46,300 So, if that ends up on... you know, on the Daily Mail, 469 00:20:46,300 --> 00:20:46,540 So, if that ends up on... everyone will believe that's you. 470 00:20:46,540 --> 00:20:48,220 everyone will believe that's you. 471 00:20:48,220 --> 00:20:48,460 A lot of these apps will sexualise everyone will believe that's you. 472 00:20:48,460 --> 00:20:52,540 A lot of these apps will sexualise those images of women and girls 473 00:20:52,540 --> 00:20:54,660 without me even asking it to do that. 474 00:20:54,660 --> 00:20:54,940 We saw an example with the MP in Victoria, Georgie Purcell, without me even asking it to do that. 475 00:20:54,940 --> 00:20:59,300 We saw an example with the MP in Victoria, Georgie Purcell, 476 00:20:59,300 --> 00:21:03,500 where the Adobe Photoshop generative AI tool 477 00:21:03,500 --> 00:21:05,140 gave her more of a midriff 478 00:21:05,140 --> 00:21:07,620 and made her breasts slightly bigger. 479 00:21:07,620 --> 00:21:10,540 This is like airbrushing on steroids. 480 00:21:11,700 --> 00:21:15,980 CHELSEA: All of the AIs are generated using real people's photographs 481 00:21:15,980 --> 00:21:19,220 that they have scraped without any permission. 482 00:21:19,220 --> 00:21:22,340 They've data-scraped billions of photos 483 00:21:22,340 --> 00:21:26,900 across every possible social media site that you can think of 484 00:21:26,900 --> 00:21:29,980 in order to train the AIs to look human. 485 00:21:30,980 --> 00:21:34,220 You could have your image stolen and not even know about it. 486 00:21:34,220 --> 00:21:38,820 The algorithm creates what it says is a unique image from this, 487 00:21:38,820 --> 00:21:42,660 but it's a breach of copyright billions of times over. 488 00:21:42,660 --> 00:21:46,900 So, Midjourney is a website that you can go on 489 00:21:46,900 --> 00:21:51,500 and you can type in, say, my name - "Robyn Lawley, sitting on a couch" - 490 00:21:51,500 --> 00:21:52,860 you could get that image. 491 00:21:53,980 --> 00:21:56,580 Um, you could also type in me doing weirder stuff. 492 00:21:57,900 --> 00:22:00,180 You can go on Midjourney and type in 493 00:22:00,180 --> 00:22:03,140 "Robyn Lawley dressed up in a panda suit". 494 00:22:03,140 --> 00:22:06,100 She looks like me, but she's not me, so they can use it, 495 00:22:06,100 --> 00:22:06,380 She looks like me, but she's not me, so they can use it, and they can...as much as they want, because it's not identical to me, 496 00:22:06,380 --> 00:22:10,740 and they can...as much as they want, because it's not identical to me, 497 00:22:10,740 --> 00:22:12,100 but it's a version of me. 498 00:22:12,100 --> 00:22:12,300 From a legal point of view, but it's a version of me. 499 00:22:12,300 --> 00:22:14,340 From a legal point of view, 500 00:22:14,340 --> 00:22:18,460 generative AI is creating all sorts of disruptions. 501 00:22:19,460 --> 00:22:24,580 In most cases, what generative AI produces is not a direct copy, 502 00:22:24,580 --> 00:22:29,580 which means it's not clear who owns the original data 503 00:22:29,580 --> 00:22:33,140 or whether the new images infringe copyright. 504 00:22:33,140 --> 00:22:36,900 If the resemblance is only slight, not perfect, 505 00:22:36,900 --> 00:22:40,260 they may have very few opportunities for complaint. 506 00:22:40,260 --> 00:22:40,540 This is a very weird ground that we're entering, they may have very few opportunities for complaint. 507 00:22:40,540 --> 00:22:43,340 This is a very weird ground that we're entering, 508 00:22:43,340 --> 00:22:45,860 where your image can literally just be stolen and taken 509 00:22:45,860 --> 00:22:46,140 where your image can literally just be stolen and taken and people can do anything they want with it. 510 00:22:46,140 --> 00:22:48,180 and people can do anything they want with it. 511 00:22:48,180 --> 00:22:50,420 And I think this is about... you know, about time 512 00:22:50,420 --> 00:22:52,420 the government got a bit involved with it. 513 00:22:57,220 --> 00:23:00,780 CHELSEA: There is currently no AI-specific legislation, 514 00:23:00,780 --> 00:23:03,740 so there's nothing protecting the general public 515 00:23:03,740 --> 00:23:08,500 from knowing whether we're looking at something that is real or not. 516 00:23:08,500 --> 00:23:15,100 So, once I realised how few laws we had to protect us, 517 00:23:15,100 --> 00:23:18,140 I asked Tracey and Robyn if they would join me 518 00:23:18,140 --> 00:23:18,380 I asked Tracey and Robyn in launching a petition. 519 00:23:18,380 --> 00:23:19,540 in launching a petition. 520 00:23:21,300 --> 00:23:25,380 I couldn't think of any other way to, sort of, galvanise people. 521 00:23:25,380 --> 00:23:31,460 And after a three-month campaign, we've got nearly 14,000 signatures, 522 00:23:31,460 --> 00:23:33,700 which is pretty amazing. 523 00:23:33,700 --> 00:23:36,060 And now that will go to an MP, 524 00:23:36,060 --> 00:23:38,020 who'll take it into the House of Representatives. 525 00:23:39,340 --> 00:23:42,260 REPORTER: What do these women have in common? 526 00:23:42,260 --> 00:23:45,220 They're online models with more than a million followers combined - 527 00:23:45,220 --> 00:23:48,700 and they're made from stolen images of real women. 528 00:23:50,940 --> 00:23:54,500 CHELSEA: A week or two after we launched the petition, 529 00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:58,020 I got a call from ABC News Investigations - 530 00:23:58,020 --> 00:23:58,260 I got a call from Kevin and Michael over there - 531 00:23:58,260 --> 00:24:00,500 Kevin and Michael over there - 532 00:24:00,500 --> 00:24:04,180 who were working on a story about fake influencer accounts. 533 00:24:04,180 --> 00:24:09,100 And so we spent the next month swapping notes, swapping contacts... 534 00:24:09,100 --> 00:24:11,220 Hello! Hello! 535 00:24:11,220 --> 00:24:13,460 So nice to meet you in person finally! 536 00:24:13,460 --> 00:24:15,340 ..helping each other get to the bottom 537 00:24:15,340 --> 00:24:20,380 of how these AI people are being made and who's behind them. 538 00:24:20,380 --> 00:24:24,220 We'd seen a little bit about AI models in tabloids, 539 00:24:24,220 --> 00:24:24,500 and so we thought we'd better dig into it We'd seen a little bit about AI models in tabloids, 540 00:24:24,500 --> 00:24:26,340 and so we thought we'd better dig into it 541 00:24:26,340 --> 00:24:28,780 and work out who's actually behind this and what's going on. 542 00:24:28,780 --> 00:24:31,540 You sent us down a very, very deep rabbit hole! (LAUGHS) 543 00:24:31,540 --> 00:24:33,460 I'm sorry! I'm sorry! Yeah. No, well... 544 00:24:33,460 --> 00:24:33,740 I'm sorry! I'm sorry! Yeah. No, well... But you know what, it's nice to have company down there, 545 00:24:33,740 --> 00:24:35,740 But you know what, it's nice to have company down there, 546 00:24:35,740 --> 00:24:35,980 But you know what, it's nice because it's pretty dark. 547 00:24:35,980 --> 00:24:36,980 because it's pretty dark. 548 00:24:36,980 --> 00:24:37,220 It's not a... because it's pretty dark. 549 00:24:37,220 --> 00:24:38,460 It's not a... It gets confusing. 550 00:24:38,460 --> 00:24:41,500 When we first spoke, though, I think you identified something 551 00:24:41,500 --> 00:24:45,180 that I don't think Michael and I ever expected to be a big thing, 552 00:24:45,180 --> 00:24:49,060 which is where you don't take their face but you take their body, 553 00:24:49,060 --> 00:24:51,300 and that becomes a lot more legally murky and grey. 554 00:24:51,300 --> 00:24:52,300 Mm-hm. 555 00:24:52,300 --> 00:24:55,060 So, I think you sent us this video. 556 00:24:55,060 --> 00:24:55,300 VIDEO NARRATOR: I finally found it, guys - So, I think you sent us this video. 557 00:24:55,300 --> 00:24:56,620 VIDEO NARRATOR: I finally found it, guys - 558 00:24:56,620 --> 00:24:59,140 the easiest way to create your own AI influencer. 559 00:24:59,140 --> 00:24:59,420 the easiest way to create your own AI influencer. You know, what you're doing is you're taking someone else's content 560 00:24:59,420 --> 00:25:02,140 You know, what you're doing is you're taking someone else's content 561 00:25:02,140 --> 00:25:06,700 and you're repurposing it, obviously for your own gain. 562 00:25:06,700 --> 00:25:11,060 Don't you find that a lot of the press so far around that 563 00:25:11,060 --> 00:25:14,020 has been a bit like, "Hey, isn't this great? 564 00:25:14,020 --> 00:25:17,500 "We can just create fake people now and monetise them." 565 00:25:17,500 --> 00:25:19,740 What's absent from that is how they actually do that, 566 00:25:19,740 --> 00:25:24,020 which is the mass harvesting of someone else's image or videos. 567 00:25:24,020 --> 00:25:25,500 And now it's up to you. 568 00:25:25,500 --> 00:25:29,380 Build your own AI influencer and start monetising your swaps. 569 00:25:29,380 --> 00:25:31,940 TRACEY SPICER: People deserve to know 570 00:25:31,940 --> 00:25:32,220 whether the images they're seeing, the words they're reading TRACEY SPICER: People deserve to know 571 00:25:32,220 --> 00:25:34,540 whether the images they're seeing, the words they're reading 572 00:25:34,540 --> 00:25:37,500 are real or created by bots. 573 00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:37,740 are real or created by bots. That's a human right in a transparent democracy. 574 00:25:37,740 --> 00:25:41,780 That's a human right in a transparent democracy. 575 00:25:41,780 --> 00:25:44,260 The beginning of this is labelling it. 576 00:25:44,260 --> 00:25:48,020 Any image uploaded onto social media or on the internet 577 00:25:48,020 --> 00:25:51,620 has to have an AI warning label on it. 578 00:25:51,620 --> 00:25:55,860 Social media companies, we've seen - over many years now - 579 00:25:55,860 --> 00:25:58,580 we cannot trust them to self-regulate. 580 00:26:00,300 --> 00:26:02,540 JEANNIE PATERSON: The Australian government at the moment 581 00:26:02,540 --> 00:26:05,220 is thinking about how it regulates AI. 582 00:26:06,340 --> 00:26:10,100 We don't want dangerous images online - 583 00:26:10,100 --> 00:26:10,380 our e-safety commissioner is doing a really good job there - We don't want dangerous images online - 584 00:26:10,380 --> 00:26:13,460 our e-safety commissioner is doing a really good job there - 585 00:26:13,460 --> 00:26:18,820 but as we move from overtly dangerous or pornographic images 586 00:26:18,820 --> 00:26:19,100 but as we move from overtly dangerous or pornographic images to images that bend truth or manipulate the truth, 587 00:26:19,100 --> 00:26:23,460 to images that bend truth or manipulate the truth, 588 00:26:23,460 --> 00:26:26,620 how we regulate becomes actually more difficult. 589 00:26:26,620 --> 00:26:26,860 how we regulate becomes But we really need to recognise 590 00:26:26,860 --> 00:26:30,420 But we really need to recognise 591 00:26:30,420 --> 00:26:33,740 the moral rights of the creative industries, 592 00:26:33,740 --> 00:26:37,180 the moral rights of humans to their own images, 593 00:26:37,180 --> 00:26:39,700 and then take the conversation from there 594 00:26:39,700 --> 00:26:41,180 in coming up with a solution. 595 00:26:45,580 --> 00:26:49,020 Once we've got all the models and talent uploaded, um... 596 00:26:49,020 --> 00:26:55,620 So, they use their 3-D technology to scan the model 597 00:26:55,620 --> 00:26:57,860 and then turn it into an avatar. 598 00:26:57,860 --> 00:27:03,020 I don't think that AI should be used to replicate a human being at all. 599 00:27:03,020 --> 00:27:07,500 I just...I just find that fundamentally wrong. 600 00:27:07,500 --> 00:27:10,860 But on the other side of that, the horse has bolted, 601 00:27:10,860 --> 00:27:13,580 and so I've been developing an application 602 00:27:13,580 --> 00:27:18,140 where the AI people are real people, real human beings, 603 00:27:18,140 --> 00:27:20,820 who own the copyright to their own image. 604 00:27:20,820 --> 00:27:24,860 Um, we've gotten to the pointy end with it - 605 00:27:24,860 --> 00:27:27,340 how to make sure that everybody gets paid. 606 00:27:27,340 --> 00:27:27,580 how to make sure So, the models, the photographers, 607 00:27:27,580 --> 00:27:29,620 So, the models, the photographers, 608 00:27:29,620 --> 00:27:31,100 the stylists, the hair and make-up artists. 609 00:27:31,100 --> 00:27:33,060 ROBYN: You can make your avatar real. 610 00:27:33,060 --> 00:27:34,780 You could have your moles and freckles 611 00:27:34,780 --> 00:27:37,340 and, you know, you could have you as a person. 612 00:27:37,340 --> 00:27:42,580 You know, I think if YOU'VE had the chance to create it and label it 613 00:27:42,580 --> 00:27:45,540 so people know that it's an avatar version of you, 614 00:27:45,540 --> 00:27:45,780 so people know that then you have power 615 00:27:45,780 --> 00:27:47,180 then you have power 616 00:27:47,180 --> 00:27:47,420 over what company is using it then you have power 617 00:27:47,420 --> 00:27:49,980 over what company is using it and how they're using it. 618 00:27:49,980 --> 00:27:54,060 I think having a product that's competitive but ethical 619 00:27:54,060 --> 00:27:56,620 is the only way to beat them at their own game. 620 00:27:56,620 --> 00:27:56,860 is the only way to beat them Absolutely. 621 00:27:56,860 --> 00:27:57,660 Absolutely. 622 00:27:57,660 --> 00:28:00,500 CHELSEA: Trying to convince most of our clients not to use AI 623 00:28:00,500 --> 00:28:04,580 is just the financial aspect of it and how much money they can save - 624 00:28:04,580 --> 00:28:04,820 is just the financial aspect of it it's just too attractive for them. 625 00:28:04,820 --> 00:28:07,060 it's just too attractive for them. 626 00:28:07,060 --> 00:28:09,060 So, we've tried to find a way 627 00:28:09,060 --> 00:28:13,300 where they can utilise that same technology but in an ethical way 628 00:28:13,300 --> 00:28:16,180 and know that they are contributing still to society. 629 00:28:16,180 --> 00:28:18,420 (KNOCKS) Hey, Buckle! Good morning. 630 00:28:18,420 --> 00:28:20,780 Miss Maria. Hello, Mr Bonner. How are you? 631 00:28:20,780 --> 00:28:21,020 Miss Maria. So, how's the battle going? 632 00:28:21,020 --> 00:28:21,940 So, how's the battle going? 633 00:28:21,940 --> 00:28:24,940 We're starting to get a lot of support, which is amazing. 634 00:28:25,900 --> 00:28:30,180 NOLA: She's not just trying to protect her own business, 635 00:28:30,180 --> 00:28:34,460 she's trying to protect the creative industry as a whole. 636 00:28:34,460 --> 00:28:36,500 Did you ever think you'd see anything like this in your lifetime? 637 00:28:36,500 --> 00:28:38,700 No. No, I have to be honest. No. 638 00:28:38,700 --> 00:28:41,460 I didn't think I'd see digital. True. 639 00:28:41,460 --> 00:28:44,580 ROBYN: You know, this is affecting you directly, and your children. 640 00:28:44,580 --> 00:28:47,860 What images are they gonna look at and think, "Is this a human? 641 00:28:47,860 --> 00:28:50,020 "Should I compare my body to this body?" 642 00:28:50,020 --> 00:28:50,260 "Should I compare my body I know what you're like, 643 00:28:50,260 --> 00:28:51,300 I know what you're like, 644 00:28:51,300 --> 00:28:51,540 and the opponent won't be happy I know what you're like, 645 00:28:51,540 --> 00:28:54,580 and the opponent won't be happy with you on their case. 646 00:28:54,580 --> 00:28:58,340 CHELSEA: Without rules, without governance, 647 00:28:58,340 --> 00:29:02,900 this technology can very quickly get out of control, 648 00:29:02,900 --> 00:29:05,340 and we just can't allow that to happen. 649 00:29:05,340 --> 00:29:08,900 It's like I said, people - like, be careful. Watch out. 650 00:29:08,900 --> 00:29:10,740 You have no idea what you're looking at. 651 00:29:26,100 --> 00:29:27,500 Captions by Red Bee Media 652 00:29:27,500 --> 00:29:29,700 Copyright Australian Broadcasting Corporation