LEIGH SALES: Restaurants are notorious for being hectic,
demanding workplaces that ask an awful lot of the people who run them.
So far in our trilogy about restaurateurs, we've met Josh Niland
and Shaun Christie-David,
who are going all out to achieve their dreams.
This time, we're going behind the scenes
with one of Australia's best-known chefs, Kylie Kwong,
with one of Australia's as she reveals some big news.
KYLIE: I've been running restaurants for 24 years,
KYLIE: I've been running restaurants literally behind the stove,
but I can feel a shift occurring inside of me.
And I'm thinking about where I want to go in the next phase of my life.
That means for me, not racing around like a maniac all day,
every day, seven days a week, which is what I used to do.
In the last 12 years, Lucky has been my driving force.
I have accepted that I don't have him physically,
but I have found a space to be with my child,
but I have found a space and that is all that matters.
Maternal energy for me is about giving back to community,
it's about feeding people, it's about nourishing people.
It's about sharing the Lucky Kwong story with everyone.
Here she is, my favourite.
Nice to see you.
Alright, come in, everybody.
WOMAN: The thing with Kylie is that she has a wonderful mixture
WOMAN: The thing with Kylie is between fierceness and warmth.
Pleasure. Make yourself at home.
Let's plate this up. Try and keep it hot.
WOMAN: She's a force to be reckoned with.
She knows what she wants, so she sets about,
She knows what she wants, you know, doing it the right way.
"Yes, Kylie. Yes, Kylie." (LAUGHS)
Everyone knows I'm bossy boots and I like directing. "Yes, Kylie. Yes, Kylie." (LAUGHS)
Everyone knows I'm bossy boots and I like directing.
Uh, Baba, a little bit more sauce. A little bit, a little bit.
Just careful.
WOMAN: Kylie is very intense. (LAUGHS)
She also has a very Aussie sensibility.
Like, she'll pour tomato sauce over quite sophisticated food.
Oh, she's a bogan. (GUFFAWS) Like, she'll pour tomato sauce over quite sophisticated food.
Oh, she's a bogan. (GUFFAWS)
Beautiful. Not too sweet.
WOMAN: No-one cooks like her.
Did you put the XO in?
The food she cooks really comes Did you put the XO in?
The food she cooks really comes from her Chinese heritage,
and yet she uses Australian ingredients to make it sing a tune The food she cooks really comes from her Chinese heritage,
and yet she uses Australian ingredients to make it sing a tune
that only she really can play.
This is the Bushman. that only she really can play.
This is the Bushman. Oh, amazing.
This is the Bushman. Her cooking is some of the best
I have ever, ever eaten in the world.
Yeah. We'll do one more, please.
Yep.
In her generation, she was unique. Yep.
In her generation, she was unique.
She came through with such a blast.
You couldn't ignore Kylie.
Oh, look at these beautiful garlic chives.
Yellow ones. The yellow ones are actually quite rare.
Let's get those. I'll put them in the Hokkien noodles.
PAULINE: As a child, you would not believe how shy Kylie was.
There's too many knobs on that. Too many knobs, OK.
Until she was probably five years old, she hardly spoke.
Until she was probably She'd just hide behind me.
Oh, remember this? Fu Yi?
Oh, God, I love that.
Both my husband and myself were born in Australia.
I'm getting these, I love these.
The children grew up really as Australians,
The children grew up but with a strong Asian influence,
especially in our eating but with a strong Asian influence,
especially in our eating and some of our customs.
There's soy sauce chicken. Oh, right.
That char siu looks good.
KYLIE: Food was everything in our childhood.
KYLIE: Food was everything One with a little bit of fat.
I learnt that food connects people
and that food makes people happy, from my mother.
You know, the reason why I taught you all to cook
You know, the reason was so that you could cook for me.
So, how about... Very smart.
We used to sit around this table every single night,
and I was so close to my mum,
I used to have my left leg wrapped around hers.
And, you know, like, I wasn't a baby then,
And, you know, like, I was probably still about 13 or 14.
How old were you again when
Gong-Gong started to How old were you again when
Gong-Gong started to teach you cooking?
PAULINE: Kylie and I were best friends.
Spot-on. Spot-on?
Her dad was very unpredictable at times.
It was just every now and again, it was like a pressure valve, you know?
It was just every now and again, it He had the loudest voice.
These Hokkien noodles He had the loudest voice.
These Hokkien noodles are actually cooked.
KYLIE: I was very intimidated by my father.
Then I'll take them out.
KYLIE: We would all listen out for his Holden engine
coming into the driveway at 4:45, and we'd all be like...
.."Wonder what mood Dad's in."
When he was good, he was great, and when he was bad, he was really bad.
I went to an all-girls school.
My friends naturally became interested in boys
and got boyfriends, and that's when the separation started
and the confusion and anxiety started for me,
and the confusion and anxiety because I did not feel like that.
You can never have enough shallots.
KYLIE: I finished my high school and then I got a job in advertising.
KYLIE: I finished my high school I went to my first gay party.
Oh, my God, I'll never forget it.
I walked into that home Oh, my God, I'll never forget it.
I walked into that home and I just felt this energy
and I thought, "Oh, my goodness, I've come home.
and I thought, "Oh, my goodness, "I've found my people."
PAULINE: It was sort of not really a shock because I had an inkling,
PAULINE: It was sort of not really but it was sadness.
It was sadness, and it was also selfishness.
I was going to, you know, plan your wedding.
And I thought, "I won't have that now."
I'm ashamed to say that I was probably thinking,
I'm ashamed to say that "What are our friends going to say?"
KYLIE: She was just saying, you know, "Please don't say anything to Dad."
But one night at the dinner table, he literally just snapped
But one night at the dinner table, and kind of got his chopstick,
"I don't like what's going on here."
He asked me point-blank, and I said, "Dad, yes, I am.
He asked me point-blank, "Dad...Dad, I'm gay."
He said, "I disagree with you.
"I don't like this lifestyle, and from this moment onwards,
"I disown you as my daughter
"and I want you to move out of the home by the weekend."
You know, he said that to me.
I felt ashamed. I felt like...
In that moment, I felt like I felt ashamed. I felt like...
In that moment, I felt like I had literally
In that moment, I felt like broken up the entire family.
And then on the Saturday morning, I had all of my things in boxes
ready to go, and I awoke to this sobbing mess beside me,
ready to go, and I awoke to and it was my father.
He was...he was this beautiful, soft,
sensitive, open, raw, vulnerable being,
the father that I'd always wanted, ALWAYS wanted.
He said, "I can't do it to you. You are my only daughter.
"I love you.
"Darling, I still don't understand this lifestyle,
"but it doesn't matter, I accept who you are."
I was so relieved. I had...
It was such a relief
to see the pair of you hugging each other and making up, It was such a relief
to see the pair of you hugging each other and making up,
because I thought I couldn't see my family torn apart like that.
KYLIE: He was conservative, he was black and white.
But in that moment, all of that ego fell away.
Then he got up from my bed and then marched down the hallway,
and off he went to golf.
I was in advertising for a few years and I really realised how cutthroat
and commercial the world of advertising was,
and commercial the world and it just wasn't for me.
I then took a job catering.
I absolutely loved it because it was something
I absolutely loved it that just was so familiar to me.
I had this light bulb moment and I ran home to Mum and Dad
and I said, "I know what I want to do, I want to be a chef.
"I want to work for the best person in Australia.
"I want to learn the highest standards."
"I want to learn the highest Hello?
I said to you, "I will do Hello?
I said to you, "I will do anything to work here.
"I'll even clean the bathrooms or, you know, clean the dishes."
"I'll even clean the bathrooms It didn't have to come to that.
The kind of level of enthusiasm that you brought It didn't have to come to that.
The kind of level of enthusiasm that you brought
was the thing that got you the job. that you brought
was the thing that got you the job.
And what was brilliant is you brought that enthusiasm every day.
I could see that you were going to be a leader.
Kylie's been with me for years now, working at Rockpool.
KYLIE: Neil taught me how to run a commercial kitchen.
The black bean is really nice and simple to put together.
He opened my eyes to the beautiful world of good-quality salt, The black bean is really nice and simple to put together.
He opened my eyes to the beautiful world of good-quality salt,
He opened my eyes to the beautiful good-quality olive oil.
What does a fresh, ripe tomato look and taste like?
Growing up, we had Chinese food every night,
so my whole mind just blew open, and it was very, very exciting.
Kwongie. Remember you used to call me Kwongie?
Kwongie. Remember you used I used to call you Kwongie a lot.
"Kwongie, do you know I used to call you Kwongie a lot.
"Kwongie, do you know how lucky you are
"Kwongie, do you know "to be born into Chinese heritage?"
And you said to me that's one of your favourite cuisines in the world.
And that really had a profound impact on me.
And that really had It gave me confidence.
Two years in the kitchen and then head chef at Rockpool.
Brilliant career. The start of a brilliant career.
KYLIE: I worked with Neil for six years,
KYLIE: I worked with Neil and then I looked up Bill Granger.
I ended up becoming Bill's head chef,
and it was completely wonderful.
Bill just lit up every room that he was in,
and he was a very, very special human being.
So, that led to the opening of Billy Kwong.
PAULINE: I'd go to the restaurant, and I was Kylie's critique.
I would say to her, "Kylie, I think that salt's a bit heavy-handed."
I thought, well, if a mother can't tell her, then nobody can.
And who taught her how to cook anyway?
"Alright, Mum, I'll tell... I'll tell the chef," she'd say. And who taught her how to cook anyway?
"Alright, Mum, I'll tell... I'll tell the chef," she'd say.
Hey, you're going to table three.
KYLIE: After a year, I bought Bill out.
He was just about to launch his first book,
and he went on that whole incredible journey.
And what I wanted to do was just go deeper into Billy Kwong.
Table five - scallops, please.
MAGGIE: The Australian food scene was dominated by male chefs.
Don't call me Chef, I hate that!
My name's Kylie. My name's Kylie.
When she started doing those wonderful television shows My name's Kylie. My name's Kylie.
When she started doing those wonderful television shows
and the cookbooks that went with them,
that just shot her to fame.
Can you hear that? It's so delicious.
MAN: We're talking about Kylie Kwong,
simultaneously a traditionalist, food innovator,
simultaneously a traditionalist, celebrity chef and definitely
part of this country's new culinary breed.
In my wok I've got Sichuan peppercorns and sea salt.
In my wok I've got Sichuan You should smell it. It's incredible.
PAULINE: Watching Kylie become a celebrity was almost surreal.
This is a live mud crab.
I'm a little bit...
I'd never achieved those heights.
I don't think anybody I'd never achieved those heights.
I don't think anybody in our family had.
I don't think anybody Listen to this.
Isn't that the most beautiful sound you've ever heard?
KYLIE: There were opportunities coming in the door
left, right and centre, and I wanted to do it all.
And we did it all. (LAUGHS)
GEORGE: What's it like when your restaurant becomes trendy?
KYLIE: When you get egotistical about anything,
that's when you lose the magic in your art.
It doesn't have that special touch because you can't see it anymore.
Do you see it as art? Well, it is. Cooking's art.
Do you see it as art? It's very creative.
Snapper with ginger and shallot.
PAULINE: Kylie's father was so proud of her,
and we'd go for dinner at Billy Kwong's.
and we'd go for dinner And he'd sit there and he'd...
People next to him, he'd say, "Are you liking the food?
"You like it here? That's my daughter."
When we found that Kylie's father had terminal cancer,
it was a very defining time for Kylie.
We were all there holding him when he took his last breath.
KYLIE: I always felt, and I feel to this day,
content about Dad and my relationship.
We made our peace.
I had been working so hard for all of those years,
and, you know, the double shifts and the late nights
that come with being a chef.
I started to feel really, really down.
It was a medical episode of depression.
WOMAN: I've known Kylie for 20 years.
She came to my office for therapy because she was very burnt out.
Kylie knew that I was a Buddhist teacher as well, and so it evolved
Kylie knew that I was a Buddhist into Kylie taking on board
practices of mindfulness and meditation practices.
KYLIE: The word Buddha means "the awakened one".
So Buddhism for me is about being awake, being in the present moment.
Because when we're in the present moment,
Because when we're in that is when we're truly happy.
NELL: The first time I met Kylie was at an exhibition opening in Sydney.
I just could not stop thinking about her,
and I didn't even know her that well.
KYLIE: I'm like, "Yeah, why don't you come to my restaurant?"
She came in to the door and she said,
"I just want you to know, I haven't read any of your books She came in to the door and she said,
"I just want you to know, I haven't read any of your books
"and I haven't seen any of your TV shows."
And I'm like, "Oh, my God, I love it."
I said, "I love that," because, I mean, that was so refreshing.
And, um, she said, "I've never seen your art."
And then we were like, "Oh, great, we can really just be friends
And then we were like, "Oh, great, "from a really fresh place."
A week later, I invited her over to my apartment for dinner.
And then I think the next week she moved in and has never left.
Nell and I got together in 2006, and for the first five years
of our relationship, when we would walk down the street,
of our relationship, when I still wouldn't hold her hand.
I had so many irrational fears.
If they find out I'm gay, they won't come to my restaurant anymore.
All of these really harsh voices in my mind,
All of these really harsh judging, judging, judging.
I came out to my family and friends when I was 19,
but it wasn't until about 23 years later
that I actually came out publicly.
And I can thank Nell for that because she really encouraged me.
NELL: The relief she felt was enormous,
and then she realised how powerful her speaking as a woman,
as an Australian-born Chinese woman was.
And, yeah, then she really embraced that role.
It's a beautiful garden.
You smell everything? Clarence has done such a great job.
Yeah, look at the flowers. Yeah.
I reached a point where I really felt very excited
about going deeper into my cooking practice.
I wanted to explore and discover new ways of being and thinking,
I wanted to explore and discover and really carve out my own style.
I make mint sauce, and I put it on pork.
Oh, beautiful. Does Andrew love that?
MAGGIE: Kylie has been a trailblazer,
MAGGIE: Kylie has been and when she went on the path
of wanting to know so much more about Indigenous ingredients,
of wanting to know so much more she became so excited.
Leave the stalk there.
I wanted to learn from the traditional owners of the land.
I wanted to learn from I wanted to learn from the best.
Give it a thorough wash
and cut it into strips and put it in your salad.
Beautiful. But it's very...
Auntie Beryl is a proud Gamilaraay woman.
She is a very highly respected Redfern elder
and she runs her own catering company at the age of 81.
And what is it? Which ones are the ripe ones?
The dark ones. Right.
NIGELLA: She wants to absorb a culture and involve the community.
And all too often it can be an exploitative relationship,
and it certainly isn't with Kylie. And all too often it can be an exploitative relationship,
and it certainly isn't with Kylie.
And I think that that's important to state.
We've known each other now for, I think, 14 years,
and you've been through a lot of things with me in my life.
and you've been through a lot of Key moments.
This is the extended part of my family and her family, Key moments.
This is the extended part of my family and her family,
and we'll remain friends for the rest of our days
because we are foodies.
Hello.
I come from a very big family,
and so I always saw myself I come from a very big family,
and so I always saw myself as a mother
and I always wanted to have children.
You? Very. Always.
When we fell pregnant, we were overjoyed.
When we fell pregnant, It just... It felt very natural.
Kylie's very, very family oriented.
Pork dumplings, coleslaw, fried rice.
Pork dumplings, coleslaw, All your favourites.
PAULINE: So Nell would be All your favourites.
PAULINE: So Nell would be the mother.
And of course, Kylie would be the spoiler.
It was the happiest time of our lives.
It was the happiest time We couldn't believe it.
Nell was just absolutely beaming and so happy and so well.
Nell was just absolutely beaming I've made this especially for you.
Sweet.
I of course loved it because, you know, cooking is my love language. Sweet.
I of course loved it because, you know, cooking is my love language.
And I just want to feed you, feed you, feed you.
So you can imagine my delight
thinking about what to feed my two beloveds every single day.
I can't remember exactly when we decided to call him Lucky,
but it kind of just came to us organically.
I think, you know, that sounds like the right name for our child.
In the later stages of her pregnancy,
we sat down to eat dinner,
and then within two minutes, she got up,
and all of a sudden, she's like, "Oh my goodness, what's happening?"
and all of a sudden, she's like, Her waters had broken.
And they shouldn't have. It was far too early for that.
And they shouldn't have. It was far too early.
We got to Randwick Women's Hospital,
and within ten minutes of the obstetrician examining Nell...
..she looked up at the pair of us.
And I'll never forget the look in her eye.
And she said, "I'm really sorry, Nell, but your waters have broken.
"And what will happen now is you will go into spontaneous labour.
"And the baby won't survive."
It was a nightmare.
And it was just so deeply traumatic.
Well, the first person I call is Subhana.
She had been through the whole pregnancy journey with us.
She had been through the whole She also used to be a midwife.
But I know the most, apart from just
you being there for us on every level
is when you came into the hospital, and...
..facilitated a space where
we could say everything we wanted to say to Lucky
we could say everything we wanted while he was in my tummy still.
SUBHANA: Yes, I remember...
..I remember your beautiful belly
and, you know, putting our hands on your belly
and just radiating that kindness and compassion.
I said how proud I was of him,
and I said to him that I was so honoured to be his mother.
And I remember saying, you know, like,
even though I am saying goodbye to you in this lifetime,
I know that you will always be with us.
Kylie and I had been to hell and back
through my waters breaking and being in hospital
and a very prolonged and painful labour.
and a very prolonged And... But the moment he came out...
And we didn't even know he was And... But the moment he came out...
And we didn't even know he was a boy, but I knew he was a boy.
And we didn't even know he was ..this moment, wonderful moment.
I think that's...my proudest moment in my life.
Nell said to me, and I'll never forget it...
She said, "We must never lose the love that made Lucky."
And I was just in awe and remained to be in awe
And I was just in awe at your incredible strength
that you had the strength to say... at your incredible strength
that you had the strength to say... and the clarity to say that
that you had the strength to say... during the darkest hour.
PAULINE: It was devastating to watch Kylie and Nell go through that pain.
I think that that's when the Buddhism played a very big part
in helping both of them.
I think there was a hope that maybe they could have another child.
We did try eventually, but that actually didn't work out.
So we just let that go.
Grief is an overwhelming energy,
and the most important thing we have to do
and the most important thing is give it a channel of expression.
What did I do? I opened up a big restaurant in Potts Point.
What did I do? I opened up Big energy, big project.
Hi, I'm Kylie Kwong.
Welcome to my new Billy Kwong restaurant in Potts Point.
Come inside and have a look.
SUBHANA: It was like her replacement baby.
And it was slightly manic.
She definitely channelled all her grief and all her love
She definitely channelled into her workplace,
and made it a beautiful space for people to come.
And then I threw myself into my art practice.
I made a painting from the text from Lucky's autopsy
I made a painting from the text transcribed into the painting.
It was a way of me having intimacy with his body,
It was a way of me having intimacy because that's all I really had.
It's, you know, a lifetime of letting go,
and letting go of the artworks is a really good practice.
Some people break apart following a loss of a child,
but Kylie and Nell didn't do that.
It was my 50th year, and I was determined to
get married to Nell before I turned 50.
I thought, "Come on, just get it together."
It was just something that we didn't need to do, but we wanted to do,
and we just had a very small ceremony with both of our parents.
and we just had a very small And Subhana was the celebrant.
PAULINE: Kylie and Nell getting married was lovely.
I think it was lovely for me too,
because I got to get the wedding, my daughter's wedding, I think it was lovely for me too,
because I got to get the wedding, my daughter's wedding,
because I got to get the wedding, that, you know, I always wanted.
It was... It was a pity that her father never saw it.
He would have loved Nell,
and he would have loved to have known that Kylie had a partner
and he would have loved to have that she cared so much about.
(HUBBUB)
NIGELLA: By the time I got to eat at Billy Kwong,
NIGELLA: By the time I got to eat it was a really huge restaurant.
For Kylie, everything has to come from her,
which is something I feel as well - I understand that -
but it's exhausting.
There came a point where Kylie realised
that having the big restaurant meant she was missing out on so much,
that having the big restaurant meant particularly time with her mother,
and less time with me.
We only really had public holidays off.
After the Lucky tragedy, I promised myself
that I would never be going that fast again in life
that I miss so many moments
because I was too busy working, working, working.
I really thought to myself, "Do you know what?
I really thought to myself, "You've got to change something.
"This is... This is unsustainable."
I close down Billy Kwong after an epic 19 years,
I close down Billy Kwong and our last day of service
was in June 2019.
I wanted to go deeper into the notion of what nourishment truly means,
and that's what this place is all about.
A much smaller eatery to have a much more sustainable lifestyle
A much smaller eatery to have Monday to Friday daytimes.
MAGGIE: It was all about contracting to give her life back
MAGGIE: It was all about contracting so she could continue to nurture.
Because you can't nurture when you're so exhausted.
Because you can't nurture William is here...
I was thinking of a name William is here...
I was thinking of a name for this new place.
Then one day I suddenly thought, "Oh, what about Lucky Kwong?"
Then I discussed it with Nell, and much to my delight,
she said, "I'm ready to put his name out in the world like this."
And it's such a positive affirmation of A, that he existed,
and B, just the word Lucky is positive and uplifting.
Many of you may know my wife, Nell. She's a contemporary artist.
If you look above, you'll see this beautiful installation.
And it's called Ghost Song For Lucky Kwong.
If people can access our story,
I hope it gives them more spaciousness
to say the name of their baby that they've lost
and...and bring that energy into their life in any way they can.
NIGELLA: The loss has really given way to this sense of nurturing.
NIGELLA: The loss has really given Enjoying the food?
But I think it's more than that.
I think that it fires her up with a sense of what's important.
I think that it fires her up All good, Auntie Margaret?
He's like my spirit guide.
He is saying to me all the time, Lucky's saying,
"Mum, we have to be a force for good."
"Mum, we have to be And I'm like, OK, let's do it.
How are you? WOMAN: Good. How are you?
How are you? Yeah, good, good, good.
OK...
For the last several years, I've been OK...
For the last several years, I've been doing lots of community work,
volunteering, packing food hampers for people in need.
Just keep moving along. Yep. Just pack.
Addi Road is a local community organisation
Addi Road is a local community that focuses on food security.
Keep going. Let's keep going.
Good. Yep.
I think Kylie could absolutely coordinate Good. Yep.
I think Kylie could absolutely coordinate
any disaster anywhere in the world.
Just one cereal box. Oh, one cereal box.
Just one cereal box. Yep.
Kylie said we've got to put culturally specific boxes together
and really target the different communities.
And people were crying
when they looked at the food that they recognised
when they looked at the food because they felt visible.
PAULINE: Community work has definitely helped to heal her.
It gives her comfort, I think,
knowing that she's...she's doing some good for other people.
When the focus is not on, you know, 'my' and 'me',
When the focus is not on, when we lean into community,
it...it instantly transforms into 'us' and 'we',
and that's where the magic happens.
My life has always been about the restaurant.
I feel like I have given this piece of my life
everything that I possibly can give it.
I'm here to announce the closure of Lucky Kwong
and the ending of my 30-year restaurateur life.
So...it's a pretty big deal.
"Big news.
"Everything changes.
"At the end of June, I am hanging up my restaurateur hat."
Dot dot dot.
I'm nervous.
(LAUGHS) Are we ready?
OK. I'm pressing.
It's posting.
It's done. It's done.
It's done. (LAUGHS)
NELL: This is a really big shift for Kylie.
NELL: This is a really big shift At the core of the change is
I think she deep down believes
she can be more powerful and make more positive impact
through the lens of food in the community,
rather than just through the four walls of a restaurant.
Now I want to focus on my support
for the First Nations community
and also the wonderful
multicultural communities
that make up this country.
I'll still be very much connected to the food industry,
but just I'll be doing it in a different way.
I'm really going to miss having Lucky Kwong takeaway
both at home and at the studio.
You're not going to starve, though.
Would I ever let you starve?
I've been with Kylie nearly 18 years,
and our whole lives have revolved around restaurants,
and it's very exciting that that's not going to be the case anymore.
Lucky will be with me.
We've had a number of conversations about this
and he's like, "Mum, it's OK. You know, I'm going to be with you.
"And I'm really happy for you."
And, you know, he's like, you know, "Let's go."
Can you tell everybody what this is?
(HUBBUB) Everybody!
(LAUGHTER)
(ALL TALK AND LAUGH) (LAUGHTER)
(ALL TALK AND LAUGH)
Captions by Red Bee Media
Copyright Australian Broadcasting Corporation