(THEME MUSIC)
Hello.
When former Labor Senator Fatima Payman
crossed the floor of the Federal parliament eight weeks ago
crossed the floor of the to vote against her own party,
she saw it as an act of conscience,
but her colleagues she saw it as an act of conscience,
but her colleagues considered it treachery.
Every MP, at some stage, struggles to reconcile their private views
with their loyalty to the party and its policies.
So what is Senator Payman's story behind the scenes
So what is Senator Payman's story that caused her to choose a path
that not only had that caused her to choose a path
that not only had serious consequences
that not only had for her and the Labor Party,
but also for her own family?
Morning. How are you guys going?
Welcome to big school Morning. How are you guys going?
Welcome to big school as an independent.
Welcome to big school Oh, my goodness. Very exciting.
Today is first day back here in Parliament
as an independent senator for Western Australia.
We've got dodgy pens. We... Who's in charge of pens in this new gig?
It's quite a lot for me to take in.
It's like running your own small business
when you have to set up your own website, recruit your own team,
make your own policy positions on matters.
You need to have a look at this NDIS.
Yes.
I feel a bit naive about how politics works,
I feel a bit naive and I may have come into politics
with being overly ambitious and optimistic
and, you know, soon that was crushed really fast.
I don't think the Labor Party
are too fond of the whole situation that's happened,
but they have to deal with the senator now.
MAN: She's the face of the new generation of politicians,
MAN: She's the face of the youngest senator in parliament,
and has created history the youngest senator in parliament,
and has created history by becoming the first
hijab-wearing Muslim in Australian parliament.
WOMAN: She had it all. She had youth on her side.
WOMAN: She had it all. She was bright, she was articulate.
She was perfect.
And, Fatima, She was perfect.
And, Fatima, that's what government looks like.
And, Fatima, (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
And you know what?
It looks like Australia.
CROWD: Yes!
Diverse, strong, men and women,
people of different backgrounds.
MAN: When Fatima Payman got into the Senate,
this was a big moment for Labor.
But there was an element of surprise there and she was an unknown factor.
The death toll in Gaza has passed 20,000 Palestinians,
The death toll in Gaza nearly half of them children.
CROWD: (CHANTS) Labor, Labor! Shame, shame!
I was stuck between a rock and a hard place.
I was stuck between (CONTINUE CHANTING)
It felt like my own party (CONTINUE CHANTING)
It felt like my own party is just treating me as...
..you need to look like you, but sound like us.
..you need to look like you, I was so conflicted.
I have to toe a particular line
that doesn't sit with my conscience and my values.
I ask our Prime Minister and our fellow parliamentarians,
how many lives need to be lost before we say enough?
It's not often that your wife is in a public fistfight
It's not often that your wife with the Prime Minister.
It was a lot.
I know that she was struggling.
I was a bit disappointed that
despite every effort to reach out to her,
she decided to take the action that she took.
she decided to take the action Now to some news just in.
Labor Senator Fatima Payman Now to some news just in.
Labor Senator Fatima Payman has crossed the floor.
The senator broke the rules, Labor Senator Fatima Payman has crossed the floor.
The senator broke the rules,
but, gee, she's put the Prime Minister in a tricky position. The senator broke the rules,
but, gee, she's put the Prime Minister in a tricky position.
MAN: It's really hard to underestimate
just what's at stake in a moment like that.
just what's at stake Thank you for being here today.
Good save! Well done.
If I'm not in Canberra, I try to make it every Wednesday night.
This is my little escape from the crazy day-to-day.
I can just, you know, blend in.
I never thought I would, um, marry a white guy.
I never thought I would, um, Amazing shot!
Thanks, babe.
When she started to speak out,
I had a conflict between my work as a State Labor staffer When she started to speak out,
I had a conflict between my work as a State Labor staffer
and my...supporting my wife. as a State Labor staffer
and my...supporting my wife.
Sometimes I'm like, "How do you put up with my craziness?"
Like, I bet he didn't think he would end up in a marriage like this.
There was a conflict in me of,
"Well, this is the best way to do it,
"is to advocate from within and just toe the line."
And we had arguments about it.
I might be smelly. And we had arguments about it.
I might be smelly. That's OK.
Thank God. (LAUGHS)
And we'd only been married for four months.
It creates an unbelievable amount of tension.
Ibrahim, here's some salad, Mummy.
We got married 18th of February this year.
And I've always just grown up with family.
So for me, it was, you know, quite easy to just request him to move in.
But who's...who's the best boxer?
Um, me. (LAUGHTER)
Living with the Paymans is very different
to what it's like living with my family.
It's been an adjustment, but I've loved it.
Fatima's life in Canberra is quite depressing.
Sometimes she keeps calling me. "Mum, I miss your rice.
"I miss your food, Mum." Yeah.
"I miss your food, Mum." I was born in Kabul in Afghanistan.
I was the first child of the first son in the family,
I was the first child so it was a big deal.
This is a good photo.
Oh, so this is when I was just born.
That's me, that's Mum and that's Dad.
And that's when Mum and Dad That's me, that's Mum and that's Dad.
And that's when Mum and Dad were having the best life.
They were. Yeah.
Afghanistan was a beautiful place.
We're talking 1995, 1996.
But then the Taliban took over.
Because of my grandfather's involvement in politics, But then the Taliban took over.
Because of my grandfather's involvement in politics,
we were in danger, so we had to flee.
So the whole family, we ran away to Pakistan.
Where is this? Kitchen.
But where? Oh, in Pakistan.
Pakistan, yeah. We was cooking together.
We had very, very bad days in Pakistan.
And I said to my husband, he has to go to Australia by boat.
At least we have to have, like, And I said to my husband, he has to go to Australia by boat.
At least we have to have, like,
a better future for my kids over there.
And then he left.
We were living in Pakistan for about three to four years
before Dad sponsored us over to join him here in Australia.
Oh, this is when we first came to Australia.
Dad was working as a security guard.
Fatima was like my parents' best friend, really.
In a country where they didn't know the language,
the eldest child is seen to be the one that carries
the eldest child is seen the most responsibility.
I was the first head girl the most responsibility.
I was the first head girl at Australian Islamic College
I was the first head girl and I took my role very seriously.
Didn't have a great reputation amongst my peers.
Um, you know, they all, you know, referred to me as "the snitch".
Um, you know, I was a bit of a loner, but it's OK.
I had plenty of teachers to keep me company.
WOMAN: (ON CALL) Yeah, so the workforce profile report
was sort of telling us what we already knew, which...
I think looking different and being made to feel different,
you kind of grow up with that unspoken truth
of you do have to carry yourself with a higher standard.
And I'm a walking representation of my faith.
Like, I literally not only wear my emotions and my faith on my sleeve,
Like, I literally not only wear my but literally on my head.
..75% of the workforce.
SHOGUFA: My husband was a politics person.
He really liked politics in his life always.
Always it was his dream one of his kids become a politician.
But then, at such a tender age of 47,
he's got cancer and a cancer that won't spare him extra years.
Dad's passing
instilled in me the sense of urgency.
Fatima, wake up!
You know, as... Fatima, wake up!
You know, as... Yeah, you may be 22, 23,
but you might not have the time that you think you do.
but you might not have the time Hello!
And so for me, it was almost immediately
just thrusting myself into volunteering.
I'll just...I'll just get supplies. How about that?
Yeah. I'm your supply girl.
Yeah. Yeah.
And in 2019, I got involved in Young Labor and the grassroots activism.
Campaigning drew me to wanting to learn more.
But Young Labor was very male dominated,
But Young Labor very less colour in the room,
um, if I can be so blunt.
When she became the president of Young Labor, um, if I can be so blunt.
When she became the president of Young Labor,
she really transformed who Young Labor is.
I saw the demographic of Young Labor change.
It's OK.
Do you remember this?
JACOB: I was always passionate about politics.
It went well. It did.
It went well. I got involved with the Labor Party
just after the state election in 2017,
and I had contact with Fatima for the first time through email.
Jacob was asking, "Are you able to help us doorknock
Jacob was asking, "for the election campaign?"
And I'm just wondering, "Who's this guy?"
And the nerve to just call me up and say, "Do you want to volunteer?"
And the nerve to just call me up Like, I've got my own work to do.
We had such a different relationship at the time.
(BOTH LAUGH)
But Jacob had this enthusiasm, (BOTH LAUGH)
But Jacob had this enthusiasm, this almost contagious energy.
But Jacob had this enthusiasm, Because we were so excited.
I do remember thinking, "Oh, she's...she's kind of cute.
I do remember thinking, "She seems fun."
Oh, stop.
In 2021, I started working at United Workers Union, and, um,
I was tapped on the shoulder
by my then union boss
to run as number three on the Senate ticket.
And I was like, "Are you...are you sure?"
And I was like, And he was like, "Don't worry,
"We... Labor hasn't won that seat since 1984."
And I'm like, "That's before I was born!
And I'm like, "Phew! Great."
For the 2022 Federal Election, "Phew! Great."
For the 2022 Federal Election, I was...made her campaign manager.
For the 2022 Federal Election, It was just a team of two.
The Labor Party didn't give us anything, and rightfully so, It was just a team of two.
The Labor Party didn't give us anything, and rightfully so,
because we weren't expected to win. anything, and rightfully so,
because we weren't expected to win.
Gosh, the first time I actually get to see Penny Wong in flesh.
Yeah, I was freaking out.
That's a fangirl face.
That is a fangirl face.
Gosh. Oh, my God.
I was such a little naive girl.
My goodness.
We are really, really hoping
that Fatima Payman is able to join us as a senator,
that Fatima Payman is able uh, going forward.
I want to work...
Oh, man.
Usually with candidates,
you know, you can sort of pack a day from 9 to 5,
and just hit something from 9 to 10, 10 to 11.
But for you it was, "Well, no, I can't do that
But for you it was, "because at 12:30 I need to pray."
Yeah. Or "Then at 3:45 I need to pray."
Yeah. So, yeah, I did have to learn,
but wanted to learn about how I could move things around
and make sure that they fit with the faith.
With Jacob, I felt like
some of the traits that I admired in my dad
some of the traits I could see reflected in him...
..but I made it a very clear point that I would like a Muslim partner.
The one state where there's been a shift across the spectrum
The one state where there's is Western Australia.
There's no doubt about
what Western Australians have voted at this stage.
On election night, when it felt like I was winning...
..it was almost hard to believe.
I was like, "No, ..it was almost hard to believe.
I was like, "No, this can't be happening."
Counting has concluded for the six WA Senate seats,
with Labor's Fatima Payman picking up the final seat.
She was brought into the Senate on the strength of that Labor vote with Labor's Fatima Payman picking up the final seat.
She was brought into the Senate on the strength of that Labor vote
She was brought into the Senate as a whole,
rather than just the strength as a whole,
rather than just the strength of her own brand.
Because she was relatively unknown.
ANNE: When Fatima got elected...
..there was such joy within the party.
..there was such joy WOMAN: And now a very warm welcome
to our third Senator for Western Australia,
to our third Senator which is very exciting.
Please give a big shout-out to Fatima Peyman.
(CHEERING, APPLAUSE)
I believe that Fatima could have gone very, very far
and achieved so much in this party, I believe that Fatima could have gone very, very far
and achieved so much in this party,
and I had always hoped and achieved so much in this party, that she would.
and I had always hoped that she would.
I remember Fatima was never really keen on getting married.
I remember Fatima was never She didn't want to be held down
and she wanted to work towards her goals.
I was mostly in Canberra,
and I felt like that absence I was mostly in Canberra,
and I felt like that absence made me reflect that
I think there was something there with Jacob.
These are my Koran learning books, basically my Arabic.
When I started exploring the Islamic faith,
was probably around the time that I was
was probably around the time becoming Fatima's campaign manager.
Yeah, there are a lot of parallels between how I was raised,
sort of as a Christian and then and then Islam,
but a lot of it is just focused on family and good values
and just do good things and good things will happen to you.
He'd approached me middle of last year
and he was like, "Look, I've accepted the faith.
and he was like, "Look, "And, um, I would like to ask I've accepted the faith. for your hand in marriage."
"And, um, I would like to ask for your hand in marriage."
And I was...I was overjoyed.
Firstly, because I was praying And I was...I was overjoyed.
Firstly, because I was praying for this to happen. Um...
But I just remember being super excited,
but also a bit nervous, like,
how's Mum going to react, how my siblings are going to react?
And first time I said no. It's impossible. how's Mum going to react, how my siblings are going to react?
And first time I said no. It's impossible.
We are Afghan and he is Aussie boy.
It's impossible.
After when I find he's Muslim guy, he's reverted to Islam.
And then I said, "No, I think he is the right person for her."
SALMAN: He got down on his...
(LAUGHS) Got down on one knee. SALMAN: He got down on his...
(LAUGHS) Got down on one knee.
And proposed to her... In front of everyone. (LAUGHS) Got down on one knee.
And proposed to her... In front of everyone.
Which was quite shocking. Yeah.
You know, it's not something normal in our culture, but it was so cute.
I think that was genuinely really a sweet gesture.
I think that was genuinely Alhamdulillah.
I'm...I'm very happy now.
He's a very good boy, I'm...I'm very happy now.
He's a very good boy, and basically he's Afghan boy now.
MAN: (OVER TV) Good evening, Jeremy Fernandez.
DAVID: During Fatima's first year in Parliament,
DAVID: During Fatima's first year she wasn't high profile.
October 7th changed all that.
Allahu Akbar!
WOMAN: Israel and Gaza are at war.
Palestinian gunmen have crossed into Israel.
October 7th was...
..a tragic day.
The perpetrators ..a tragic day.
The perpetrators should be condemned.
And it's an atrocity that needs to be called out.
MAN: The large-scale surprise attack by Gaza militants
MAN: The large-scale surprise attack has left at least 250 Israelis dead.
And then within a few hours, you know,
the main monuments around the country are lit up
the main monuments around the country with the Israeli flag colours.
And then the onslaught of Gaza starts.
Israel vowed retribution, and the retaliation was swift.
The federal government officially backs a two-state solution
that's left some within the Palestinian community
questioning why they aren't receiving
the same show of solidarity for the lives lost in Gaza.
The outrage was reverberating throughout community members.
People I'd grown up with were messaging me and saying,
People I'd grown up with were "What's your government doing?"
CHANDA: Labor party members were very critical of the government.
We were very dissatisfied with the responses that we were receiving. CHANDA: Labor party members were very critical of the government.
We were very dissatisfied with the responses that we were receiving.
We wanted a permanent ceasefire.
We wanted sanctions.
A two-state solution is... We wanted sanctions.
A two-state solution is...
Support for a two-state solution.
Come with a two-state solution.
Well, how can we advocate for a two-state solution
when one of those two states isn't even recognised by the country?
I was hearing from people that were leaving the party
I was hearing from people over our stance on Gaza,
and it just felt like more needed to be done.
I remember feeling really scared and talking to Jacob and saying,
I remember feeling really scared like, "Where's this going to go?
"And what kind of role am I going to play in this?"
WOMAN: Israeli airstrike has killed four international aid workers,
WOMAN: Israeli airstrike has killed including an Australian.
When Zomi Frankcom was killed, including an Australian.
When Zomi Frankcom was killed, I was like,
this has got to be our turning point as Australia stands.
I called the foreign minister and I said,
"I would like to say that, you know, I call on the government
"I would like to say that, you know, "to, um..."
"..either apply sanctions or pause trade."
And the response I got was, "No, we can't,
"because you're going to put us in a precarious position.
"because you're going to put us "You're going to corner us."
JACOB: When Fatima started taking the steps to speak out,
JACOB: When Fatima started taking I wanted to support my wife.
But sometimes I'd have to say to her, like,
But sometimes I'd have to say "I don't want to get in trouble.
"I don't want to put my boss "I don't want to get in trouble.
"I don't want to put my boss in a bad situation."
We spoke about it and we had arguments about it.
I was definitely in the, I guess you'd call it,
the camp of raise your voice within caucus.
I had senior colleagues tell me
if you don't want anything to be leaked,
if you don't want anything don't bring it up in caucus.
And so I was directly speaking with the foreign minister.
I would literally cry and say, "What do I do?"
And the foreign minister would acknowledge the suffering
And the foreign minister and then say that, you know,
"Australia is a small fish in a big pond.
"We don't really have power over the Israeli government."
But my intention was never for us, as the Labor Party,
to go into Israel and tell Netanyahu to drop his guns.
It's, how do we maintain the social cohesion amongst our communities?
Because they were just so disappointed with the party.
We would go to the mosque just as regular members of the community
to go and pray,
and people would just turn their backs,
or everyone would just give you stares from a distance.
And it felt like I was a stranger to my own community.
People were questioning whether I'm a real true Muslim
because I'm not doing enough.
I would wake up in the middle of the night,
and you would be scrolling on your phone,
and you would be scrolling reading nasty messages from people
that were upset that you weren't speaking out.
And that was every day.
It was every single day for seven months.
My health was deteriorating.
I felt like I was in this depressive mode.
There was a point where maybe in a week period, I felt like I was in this depressive mode.
There was a point where maybe in a week period,
we took her to the hospital two or three times
for just intense migraines
that were causing her almost to pass out and vomit.
This is so messed up.
Yeah.
ANNE: There was an incredible amount of empathy and compassion
ANNE: There was an incredible amount for Fatima's position.
I am in that same position. for Fatima's position.
I am in that same position.
Ed Husic is in that same position.
This is our community.
It's our people.
But being in the Caucus, being in the government
But being in the Caucus, is how you make change.
DAVID CROWE: Through the early months of 2024,
the pressure over policy on Gaza really built.
The student encampments were happening across the country.
There were some very chilly early mornings.
And so I was like, you know what?
I'm going to take breakfast and some hot Afghan tea
to these students because I feel for them.
I hadn't told anyone because I didn't want this to be a photo op.
CHANDA: The students weren't interested in the tea.
They weren't interested in the croissants.
They were so angry.
What power do you really have?
Are you willing to call it a genocide?
And are you willing to lose your job over this?
A few hours later, I get a call from a WA federal colleague
and she was basically like,
"You know, did you get clearance to attend this encampment?
"Did you get lines on what to say, what not to say?"
I don't know that I called her, I might have messaged her.
Um, yeah, I was surprised that she went without telling anyone.
Nobody knew.
And I think that it's a courtesy, right?
It's a courtesy to your colleagues to let them know.
You know, when people say Caucus solidarity,
it's not just that you shut up and do whatever the Caucus wants, right?
It's not even that. It is a mutual respect among us all.
When I decided to no longer stay quiet,
I knew that it was the right thing to do.
I read out my statement, calling on the government to do more.
My conscience has been uneasy for far too long.
And I must call this out for what it is.
And I must call this out This is a genocide...
..and we need to stop pretending otherwise.
REPORTER: (ON RADIO) Israel insists, is acting within international law
and has strenuously denied allegations of genocide.
What should Albanese do with that senator?
He needs to ask her to apologise and retract or resign.
Is it appropriate for a member of your government
Is it appropriate for a member to use the word 'genocide'?
Well, it's not the word I would use.
Once you do something like that in the Labor Party,
Once you do something that is the beginning of the end.
The reaction from my colleagues,
they came up to me and told me that they felt betrayed.
Every member of the Caucus elected to Parliament
commits to abide by the decisions of that Caucus,
even if they're in the minority on a vote by that Caucus.
That's what solidarity means
and it's fundamental to the way the party works.
Her staff were leaving. Caucus was isolating her.
She's getting booted from group chats.
She's getting booted In the end, I had to make a choice
and it wasn't a hard choice.
I love my wife and I support my wife.
Tuesday 25 June was the day when the Greens put up the motion
calling on the Senate to recognise the State of Palestine.
The day prior, I was sat by a few colleagues who were like,
The day prior, I was sat by "How are you gonna vote?"
And I said, "How are you gonna vote?"
And I said, "I haven't made up my mind."
And they were like, "Well, we're thinking of pairing you out.
"And that means, you know, you don't need to be in the chamber
"And that means, you know, "when this vote is happening."
And then I remember getting a message from the Whip saying,
"We've paired you out from this time to this time."
"We've paired you out I reflected on it and I thought,
"What would happen if I just rocked up to the Chamber?"
Division required. Ring the bells for one minute.
I looked at David Pocock and I was like, "I think I'm gonna cross."
And he was like, "Do you want me to walk with you?"
That's when I just got up and crossed the floor,
knowing that this could be the end of my career That's when I just got up and crossed the floor,
knowing that this could be the end of my career
knowing that this could be as a member of the Labor Party.
Senator Payman wasn't born
the last time a Labor senator crossed the floor.
the last time a Labor senator Tonight, she's made history
but it's her future in the party Tonight, she's made history
but it's her future in the party that is now unclear.
Crossing the floor, it's a big move
because it's seen as an act of disloyalty,
and it's seen as a rejection of the major party
and it's seen as a rejection that brought you to Parliament.
I was not elected as a token representative of diversity.
I was elected to serve the people of Western Australia
and uphold the values instilled in me by my late father.
I was called into the Prime Minister's office.
He had told me I would be suspended from attending the Caucus
the following week.
The Prime Minister has dealt with this matter with great restraint
on this occasion.
Caucus solidarity matters to us
and our expectation Caucus solidarity matters to us
and our expectation is Senator Payman
will abide by Caucus decisions.
Look, I've made my position clear to Senator Payman. will abide by Caucus decisions.
Look, I've made my position clear to Senator Payman.
He told me that I need to reflect on whether I want to be a team player
and toe the line.
She said to me, "I can't back down now. I need to keep going."
She said to me, "I can't back And so I drove her to Insiders
'cause there's nobody else in the team that's gonna do it.
I felt like if they were going to expel me,
and they were already phasing me out,
then there's no point in me seeking permission to do Insiders.
If the same motion on recognising the State of Palestine
was to be brought forward tomorrow, I would cross the floor.
You would cross the floor again? Yes.
It then spiralled down real fast.
I got a call from the Prime Minister's office.
"Um, you've got to be at the Lodge at 2:00."
We went to Canberra thinking it was a nice holiday,
and we just got swallowed up by it all.
And she said, "We just have to make a stop at the Lodge. and we just got swallowed up by it all.
And she said, "We just have to make a stop at the Lodge.
(ALL LAUGH) "I'll go in. You wait in the car."
It didn't feel like 45 minutes.
Yeah, it felt like 4.5 hours.
Yeah. Yeah, it felt like 4.5 hours.
Yeah. Sitting in the car.
I felt like a little student in trouble and taken by the teacher
to the headmaster's office for a telling off. You know?
And it was a stern conversation.
I get out and then all of a sudden
there's like, "Senator Payman! Senator Payman!"
What is this, an ambush?
Have you been expelled, though? No.
Have you been expelled, though? You haven't been?
You got in the car and you said 'indefinitely suspended.'
I didn't know what that meant. The journos are there, we drove off.
I thought she was going to come out and say, "I've been expelled."
But an indefinite suspension was almost worse. It's purgatory. I thought she was going to come out and say, "I've been expelled."
But an indefinite suspension was almost worse. It's purgatory.
REPORTER: Just what Fatima Payman does next is unclear.
News she is courting new political advisers and Muslim community groups
is fuelling speculation she may be about to cut ties with Labor.
is fuelling speculation she may be Am I going to resign?
Am I going to give the seat back to Labor?
Am I going to come out and say, "No, I'm gonna toe the line from now on."
Like, what do you do?
It was overwhelming.
My family did not flee
from a war torn country to come here as refugees
for me to remain silent when I see atrocities inflicted
for me to remain silent on innocent people.
I'm torn.
Deeply torn.
With a heavy heart, but a clear conscience
I announce my resignation from the Australian Labor Party.
I will sit on the crossbench to represent Western Australia.
As a mother, I'm really proud of her.
She did something big for humanity.
In the end, I had to resign, by choice.
And I just said, I can't keep these two worlds apart.
Um, but I'm proud of what I did, and I don't regret it at all.
Um, but I'm proud of what I did, (CHEERING)
DAVID CROWE: There's certainly been some damage to Labor
because there's an entire community now
that is disaffected with Labor over its stance on the Middle East
and it's become a flashpoint that highlights a longer term question
about Caucus loyalty, party loyalty on all sides, really.
about Caucus loyalty, party loyalty We're so proud of you.
I feel like the Labor Party really needs to review their rules
because I don't think they're ready to have diversity with a voice.
because I don't think they're ready I disagree.
It has been my experience that not only am I given a seat at the table, I disagree.
It has been my experience that not only am I given a seat at the table,
I am also given a voice. only am I given a seat at the table,
I am also given a voice.
It's day one back here in Canberra.
I've caught the red eye, so I'm a bit tired.
Coming back as an Independent senator,
I don't know what to expect in terms of how my former colleagues
are going to treat me.
You know, I'm not here to play games or be obstructive.
You know, I'm not here to play games You've come from a big corporation.
You're now self-employed.
Her first big call is a controversial one.
She's hired Glenn Druery as her chief of staff.
Now, Glenn Druery is no friend of Labor.
They'll be deeply suspicious of his motives and his agenda
and I think it will widen the gulf between Labor and Senator Payman.
Two minute statements for today, Wednesday, Thursday, all locked in.
Glenn has previous experience with Independent senators
and minor party senators, so he knows what he's doing.
Well, my plans are to work with the senator. and minor party senators, so he knows what he's doing.
Well, my plans are to work with the senator.
I mean, I don't have any plans, per se that are Glenn Druery's plans.
Are there plans to form a party?
It's certainly a discussion we need to have.
Yes, it's a discussion we must have.
I do not have any plans on forming a party
I do not have any plans but I will not be joining the Greens,
and nor will I be forming a Muslim-only party.
and nor will I be forming Something I've learned about politics
is you never commit definitively Something I've learned about politics
is you never commit definitively to anything,
because it will come around and bite you in the backside.
Captions by Red Bee Media
Copyright Australian Broadcasting Corporation