(CHEERING, APPLAUSE)
(GUITAR STRUMS) (CHEERING, APPLAUSE)
(GUITAR STRUMS)
Hey. Thanks for coming in. Nice to meet you.
Yeah. Nice to meet you too. Come on through.
In all my years of interviewing,
I've never had so many colleagues wanting to come along to a recording
I've never had so many colleagues as this one, with musician Nick Cave.
Is that you? That's me. That's you.
Is that your questions? It is, but I don't always use them.
Is that your questions? So... It's my security.
If you start looking at them,
it means it's going terribly, horribly wrong.
He grew up in Wangaratta, and after a wild youth,
left Australia for the UK 45 years ago.
# And the mercy seat is waiting... # left Australia for the UK 45 years ago.
# And the mercy seat is waiting... #
God, there's so many cameras.
There's so many cameras. (LAUGHS)
We'll wait for your coffee.
Oh, yeah. You'd be on hair patrol.
Life always revolved around music with his band, The Bad Seeds,
but more recently, after the loss of two of his four sons,
but more recently, after the loss he's found new meaning.
# And I'm not afraid to die... #
For most of my life, I was just sort of, um... # And I'm not afraid to die... #
For most of my life, I was just sort of, um...
..in awe of my own genius.
You know? ..in awe of my own genius.
You know? And I...and I had an office,
and I would sit there and write every day
and...and whatever...whatever else happened in my life and I would sit there and write every day
and...and whatever...whatever else happened in my life
was...was peripheral...
..even annoyances,
because I was involved in the... in this great work
because I was involved in the... that I was that, you know...
And... And this just collapsed completely.
And I just sort of saw the folly of that.
The kind of in... And I just sort of saw the folly of that.
The kind of in...
The disgraceful sort of self-indulgence of the whole thing.
It just... My, just...
Just my priorities changed.
You know, I still work all the time.
Um, I still go on tour.
You know, I still piss everyone off because I'm making a new record,
or I'm depressed because I can't write songs.
The same things still apply, but that, um...that...
..idea that art sort of trounces everything...
..idea that art sort of It just doesn't apply to me anymore.
I'm a father, and I'm a husband,
and a...and a kind of person of the world. I'm a father, and I'm a husband,
and a...and a kind of person of the world.
These things are much more important to me
than the concept of being an artist, let's say.
than the concept of being an artist, ('RED RIGHT HAND' PLAYS)
# Take a little walk to the edge of town
# Take a little walk # And go across the tracks
# Where the viaduct looms like a bird of doom
# As it shifts and cracks... #
We found when we were looking at the archive
We found when we were looking an old clip of you when you were 28.
What do you think you'll be doing when you're 56?
Well, I can't really see myself doing tours of Australia... What do you think you'll be doing when you're 56?
Well, I can't really see myself doing tours of Australia...
particularly,
and I would hope that I wasn't involved in music by then.
# Hidden in his coat...
ALL: # Is a red right hand. #
Oh!
I've always said to myself that I would bow out of it
I've always said to myself once it became obvious to me
that I was making inferior music once it became obvious to me
that I was making inferior music to what I had made before.
# Go, son, go down to the water... #
How unexpected has it been to find yourself now, in your '60s,
still making music, being creative, doing new stuff?
It's difficult to say because I'm...I'm here.
It's difficult to say I'm sort of...I AM that age.
So I think my younger self would be impressed
So I think my younger self in that I just sort of hung around.
# This is a weeping song
# A song in which to weep... #
One of the things that's really striking about your career is that
you have continued to be really innovative.
A lot of people in creative life have a fruitful period
when they're young,
whereas you've continued innovating, being creative,
and the fans have gone with you on that.
It's not like they're sitting there fidgeting,
just waiting for you to play Red Right Hand.
just waiting for you to play No.
('THE WEEPING SONG' CONTINUES)
Yeah, it's been a slow, late developer.
Yeah, it's been a slow, (BOTH LAUGH)
No, but I mean, I think (BOTH LAUGH)
No, but I mean, I think a relationship has developed
No, but I mean, I think between me and my fans
that's developed together.
Well, you'll know next time not to come up the front
Well, you'll know next time when we play, won't you?
The front row is not when we play, won't you?
The front row is not for the fragile, my dear.
It was initially, 40 years ago,
an adversarial relationship with my audience.
an adversarial relationship It was...
You know, you went to sort of war with the crowd in some kind of way. It was...
You know, you went to sort of war with the crowd in some kind of way.
Over the years, it's just sort of developed
into something that's... that's the opposite of that,
and...and is really a sort of, uh, outpouring and incoming of love
between the audience and the people on stage.
And that seems to...to really work sometimes, you know.
And that seems to...to really work (CHEERING, APPLAUSE)
I've just been talking, you know, reassessing
with my team, my manager, and all of this sort of stuff.
with my team, my manager, "What exactly is Nick Cave?"
We've been doing that recently,
because we have a new album coming out,
because we have a new album a new Bad Seeds album.
That's always been a new Bad Seeds album.
That's always been the primary flagship of everything.
But something like the Red Hand Files has just grown in importance.
It's grown in importance to the way I am and the way that I live my life
and the way I communicate with my audience, and so forth.
and the way I communicate And that's interesting.
It's interesting that the actual primary function And that's interesting.
It's interesting that the actual primary function
of what I do artistically or creatively
of what I do artistically shifts to...to some degree.
For people who don't know, the Red Hand Files is...
It started as kind of like an "ask me anything",
where people would write to you and ask you questions
where people would write to you that you would answer.
There are thousands of questions here. Thousands and thousands.
There's... There's 38,065 questions.
(READS) "My brother David died two years ago.
(READS) "My brother David died "He was just 24 and I was 19.
"It feels like everyone is moving on and forgetting him,
"and I'm afraid of letting go of my anger.
"What if I don't know who I am without it?
"For so long has my grief been an inextricable part of me."
"For so long has my grief Alison.
Billy from Scotland.
Um...
(READS) "My wife has thrown me out.
"I've lost my job all within a week.
"Suicidal thoughts in abundance.
"How does one handle having
"seemingly no control over one's life?"
This is a really beautiful question too.
As you say, it's become very important to you.
Why do you think it's become so important?
Why do you think You know, it's...it's...um...
..it's a completely unique thing for me personally. You know, it's...it's...um...
..it's a completely unique thing for me personally.
I mean, it sort of grew out of sort of personal tragedy
that happened within my family.
REPORTER: The 15-year-old son of Australian rock musician Nick Cave
has died after falling from a cliff on the south coast of England.
Police in the UK say Arthur Cave was found
Police in the UK say with life-threatening injuries...
The Red Hand Files was people writing in saying,
"Look, this has happened to me. The Red Hand Files was people writing in saying,
"Look, this has happened to me.
to you.
"This is what's going to happen to you.
You know, "Expect this." to you.
You know, "Expect this."
It wasn't just people being sympathetic.
It was people, um, who'd had the same thing
or similar things happen to them.
But it was also a kind of lifeline for me
that reached out and collected up these people.
And it's...it's something that's just allowed me that reached out and collected up these people.
And it's...it's something that's just allowed me
to remain open to the world, rather than shut down.
# I will miss you when you're gone to remain open to the world, rather than shut down.
# I will miss you when you're gone
# I'll miss you when you're gone away forever... #
Now I get...I get hundreds and hundreds of letters a week,
Now I get...I get hundreds all of which I read,
and a great deal of them all of which I read,
and a great deal of them are to do with...with grief
and a great deal of them and personal problems.
# Just breathe
It's quite difficult to talk about this,
but...but I read a letter that comes in from someone
talking about the fact that they're...
Sorry, this is quite...actually quite difficult to talk about.
..talking about the fact that their husband's died.
..talking about the fact Right?
And you're reading it and you realise
the husband's died 15 years ago, or something like that, right?
And this sort of sell-by date has happened with grief and they've...
Everyone's gone, "Look, it's time to move on,"
and all of this sort of stuff,
and it's just not... it's not like that.
Um, that's not the way things seem to work, as far as I can see. and it's just not... it's not like that.
Um, that's not the way things seem to work, as far as I can see.
So there's, there's a great beauty in...in...in the Red Hand Files
So there's, there's a great beauty that's ex...
You know, it's an extreme privilege to be, um,
You know, it's an extreme privilege receiving these letters from people.
And it is this bizarre sort of opportunity for people
to indulge, to some degree, in...in their grief around things.
to indulge, to some degree, How does grief feel
after a number of years versus in the immediate aftermath?
What does grief feel like several years on,
as opposed to
when you're in the absolute maelstrom of it straightaway?
when you're in the absolute maelstrom Um, you get practised at it.
That's a terrifying aspect.
Um, today is the anniversary of Jethro's death.
Um, the... My... The second son who died.
REPORTER: Breaking news now.
The eldest son of Australian singer Nick Cave has died, aged 31.
I had an understanding of the process
I had an understanding because I'd been through it already.
There is the initial cataclysmic event
that we eventually absorb
or rearrange ourselves
so that we become, um...
..creatures of loss as we get older,
that is part of our fundamental fabric
of what we are as human beings.
We are things of loss. Um...
And...and this is a...is not a tragic element to...to our lives,
And...and this is a...is not but rather a deepening element.
And that brings incredible meaning but rather a deepening element.
And that brings incredible meaning into our life.
And that brings incredible meaning In general, I think we become...
Our lives collect meaning from these sorts of things.
I'm sorry that this interview has landed
on the anniversary of your son's death.
OK. It's... And I'm...
It's odd that we're jumping straight into this too.
Yeah. I'm sorry. I, um...
No, it's not your fault. It's just...
I'm happy to follow where you want to go.
But please, if I ask anything that oversteps the line...
No, no. It's not that.
It's... It's, um...
It's...
For me, when I do interviews, it just quick...
..it just very quickly lands back at this place, and, um...
But that's fine, Nick, because it's obviously very present with you
But that's fine, Nick, because all the time.
When you've gone through real pain, all the time.
When you've gone through real pain, as you have,
it's like you get this understanding that
all of the order in the world can just be over like that.
How does one live one's life once that has become real to you?
I mean, this...this is really... this is quite a... How does one live one's life once that has become real to you?
I mean, this...this is really... this is quite a...
..quite a complicated thing,
but the sort of void that was left,
there was a kind of rushing in of meaning that came into that void
there was a kind of rushing in in all sorts of different ways,
um, that...
..um, allowed me to see the world in a different way.
Allowed me to be much more, um, um, basically compassionate
Allowed me to be much more, um, um, towards the human predicament.
Uh... Um... Less embittered.
It had... It was kind of a counterfactual response.
In fact, rather than made me bitter...
..it...it...it did the opposite, in some way.
It made me much more connected to, um, people in general.
# I don't believe in an interventionist God... #
I've always had a religious temperament, even as a child.
# I know, darling, that you do... #
But no need for it.
You know, I sort of drug addicted for a couple of decades.
# But if I did, I would kneel down and ask Him... #
And had a great interest in this sort of stuff, but no need for it.
And I think...
..after Arthur died, not immediately, but...
You know, it's been quite a while now, but...
Rather than, uh, feeling anger towards that sort of stuff
Rather than, uh, feeling anger or rejecting that sort of stuff,
I felt...I felt a slow movement towards a religious life, or rejecting that sort of stuff,
I felt...I felt a slow movement towards a religious life,
um...that I found extremely helpful, and...
# Walk like Christ in grace and love and... #
Um...kind of...a kind of.. kind of widening thing
Um...kind of...a kind of.. that's happened in my life.
# Into my arms, O Lord
# Into my arms. #
Do you feel sitting here today...
Like, does that feel like the same person to you,
the guy that was, say, on the streets of New York
trying to score 25 years ago?
Yeah.
(LAUGHS) Yeah.
I mean, I don't, I don't do... I don't do that anymore.
Um, but I recognise the impulse,
and I don't...I don't... I don't have, um...
..the sort of desire to... to use drugs and drink and stuff.
I don't struggle with that at all. I mean...
Those sorts of things are around me all the time.
I still live in a rock and roll world.
I'm not, like, tempted to return to that way of life,
but I still recognise it and identify with it, you know.
This is a very personal question,
so tell me to sod off This is a very personal question,
so tell me to sod off if you don't want to answer it.
so tell me to sod off Unlike these other ones...
(BOTH LAUGH)
In the aftermath of when such terrible things happen to you
and the death of Arthur and so on, and then Jethro,
and the death of Arthur and so on, why did drugs not seem like,
well, that would be just a relief or be oblivion,
well, that would be just a relief or it would be something to turn to?
You know, I... It didn't occur to me.
You know, it's not... it's not a relief. I know that.
You know, it's not... It doesn't fix anything.
But mostly I had responsibilities to other people. It doesn't fix anything.
But mostly I had responsibilities to other people.
It's not... It wasn't just me. to other people.
It's not... It wasn't just me.
It wasn't just about me.
It was an honouring of the people that had actually died,
It was an honouring of the people for one thing.
Um, and...and that I had, uh, my wife to look after
Um, and...and that I had, uh, who was going through, uh...
..who was going through...
You know, like, mothers who have lost children
You know, like, go through something different.
It's a different thing than... go through something different.
It's a different thing than... than a father that's lost a child.
It's a different calibre of suffering, um, that's...
..you know, it's a... it's a sort of hell unto itself.
Um...and the idea that I would go off and become a junkie again,
or whatever, you know, it's clearly a bad idea,
you know, and...and there were the other children too, you know, so...
It just wasn't something that crossed my mind.
Oh, my God! Hey.
Look at you. I've got brown hair.
You've been all right? Yeah.
What are you doing? Nothing.
What are you doing? Oh, God.
I'm just very, very lucky to be married to someone
that I...I remain completely in love with.
that I...I remain Um, you know, and...and remains
an enormous source Um, you know, and...and remains
an enormous source of inspiration to me.
an enormous source I'm awed by her.
After Arthur died, I found this in storage, and, uh...
I just couldn't believe it when I saw it,
because it's a painting that he did when he was...
How old? About five or something like that?
And it was, um, it's of the windmill and...
You know, just where he died.
To see her completely incapacitated, bedridden,
you know, in a darkened room, in a tomb of her own, I would say,
into someone that just eventually got out of bed
and went to work and...
..to sort of rise out of it and went to work and...
..to sort of rise out of it in some way,
..to sort of rise out of it I'm forever in...in awe of.
So, there's that.
We have a relationship that is sort of bound together
by both love and catastrophe,
and that, once again, adds layers of meaning to...to our life
that, together, that I don't think were probably there to begin with.
SUSIE: I try to, you know, to just keep moving forward.
You know, since everything that happened,
my work became something different, you know. You know, since everything that happened,
my work became something different, you know.
Before it was something I was doing, you know,
because I was enjoying it and loving it.
But then it became a real necessity.
I really had to...to work.
And, um... Because it was the only thing
that would take my mind off everything.
Sometimes I think in life there's a temptation to see it as linear,
that things...you're happy and then you're sad and so on.
But obviously joy and sorrow all kind of coexist all the time.
And while you're obviously carrying grief with you all the time,
you're also now a grandfather.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, it's just been the most amazing experience.
I wasn't quite prepared for how... how much it would affect me.
Um, this little guy, his name's, uh, Roman.
Roman Cave. (CHUCKLES)
Uh, is such a gorgeous-looking little creature.
I mean, it's extraordinary.
It's made me extraordinarily... extraordinarily happy.
It's made me extraordinarily... Uh, I'm a grandfather, so...
(CHEERING, APPLAUSE)
It's pretty good. (LAUGHTER)
It's pretty good. (PLAYS NOTES)
What kind of grandfather would you like to be?
I'm looking forward to being the sort of grandfather
that sort of sits, you know, in the armchair
that sort of sits, you know, that says inappropriate things
and has a terrible influence over everybody and...
and has a terrible influence ..but that the child secretly loves.
NICK CAVE: I'm a good... ..but that the child secretly loves.
NICK CAVE: I'm a good... Yeah. I'm a good dad.
I have quite a gift with children in general, I think.
I think I've always been quite good with kids. And...
Um...
I find to be... I find Um...
I find to be... I find being a father really easy.
I find to be... I find You know, uh...
I meet other fathers and other parents and, um...
And they seem...
They seem to be kind of exhausted And they seem...
They seem to be kind of exhausted by the whole...whole thing,
and I don't... I find it really energising
and I don't... and very easy thing to do.
I'm talking to Earl on the phone.
MAN: Oh, let's go... I'm talking to Earl on the phone.
MAN: Oh, let's go... Let's say to hi to Earl.
MAN: (OVER PHONE) Um... But, uh...
You're being filmed now, so you better hide.
No, don't hide, Early.
I'm not hiding. I'm right here.
I'll call you later. Alright.
See you, Earl. Are you OK? Are you OK there?
See you, Earl. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alright. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alright. See you.
Alright. Happy...
(BIRDS TWITTER) Happy...
(BIRDS TWITTER)
In your new album, the opening verse of the first song is about
a man seeing a woman by a lake,
and he talks about the golden light.
Made me wonder, have you...
Have you heard the record? Yeah.
Have you heard the record? Oh, the whole thing?
Yeah. Yeah. Oh.
It's great. It's not bad, hey?
In those lyrics, the use of the word 'lake'
In those lyrics, made me think of English countryside,
but then "golden light" made me think of, like,
the light in Australia at times.
Does Australian imagery,
even though you haven't lived here for a long time,
still seep through into your work, do you think?
Yeah, it does, I'd say so.
I mean, it always has.
# Mary, grab the baby I mean, it always has.
# Mary, grab the baby
# The river's rising... #
I've always thought of my songs as Australian.
# Muddy water taking back the land... #
The particular locus of my childhood was the river in Wangaratta,
where we used to hang out as kids on our bikes,
and there's a railway bridge that goes over that.
And I often think about that place.
It appears in...in a lot of songs.
# Take the child
# The river's rising... #
Have you been back to the river # The river's rising... #
Have you been back to the river and the railway?
Have you been back to the river Yeah, I actually did.
I don't know how long ago it was.
# Taking back my home... #
I've said over the past, as a young person,
I've said over the past, terrible things about Wangaratta.
Which, now that I've grown up a bit... (LAUGHS) ..I kind of regret.
Which, now that I've grown up a Um...
But it was...it was... Um...
But it was...it was... it was fun to go back there
But it was...it was... and to stand on a stage
and sort of apologise to... to Australia,
to, you know, the Australian police force. and sort of apologise to... to Australia,
to, you know, the Australian police force.
Uh, everyone else that I've sort of, um,
haven't had kind things to say about.
haven't had kind things And, um, it was...it was quite...
And what was their reaction to that? ..a beautiful thing.
And what was their reaction to that? They... They were fine about it.
# All this muddy water is taking back my home. #
I haven't lived here for over 45 years or something like that.
But I get at times a great nostalgia for Australia.
Things fall away when I get back to Australia,
and I feel relief, like I'm back in the place that I should be.
and I feel relief, like I'm back I love Australian people,
and I understand the people and stuff like that.
Your collaboration with Kylie Minogue, how did it come about?
Well, I was just a fan, and I always sort of watched her
and...as a sort of pop icon,
and kind of wished at some point
she just sort of slows stuff down a little bit.
she just sort of slows stuff down And I had this song that was a duet.
I just felt, wow, imagine if I sang that with Kylie Minogue.
Hello, Kylie, how are you today? (LAUGHS)
I was just - duh! - really naive Hello, Kylie, how are you today? (LAUGHS)
I was just - duh! - really naive
and didn't know about the legend of Nick Cave
and didn't know about and said, "Oh, that's really nice."
(LAUGHS) How are you?
Oh, I'm a hell of a lot better for seeing you.
# They call me the Wild Rose
# But my name was Eliza Day... #
For her to do it required something of her. # But my name was Eliza Day... #
For her to do it required something of her.
# On the third day, he took me to the river
# Show me the roses and we kissed... #
It was hugely controversial within her own management.
They're like, "You don't want to be doing a record with this guy." It was hugely controversial within her own management.
They're like, "You don't want to be doing a record with this guy."
You know, I wasn't in...remotely in showroom condition at the time.
WOMAN: Do you actually mind taking your glasses off?
And so it was something for her to step into this,
you know, male drug-addicted world, which she did,
you know, male drug-addicted world, uh, to sing this song as...
..and...and she just showed extraordinary courage, I think,
..and...and she just showed to do that.
# Why they call me that, to do that.
# Why they call me that, I do not know... #
You know, I think most people just thought it was beautiful and bizarre
You know, I think most people just and...and liked it.
Maybe there was...were some people who...who just like,
"What are you doing with Kylie Minogue?" or whatever, I don't know,
but...
I tell you who objected most was the Kylie Minogue fans.
I tell you who objected most (CHEERING, APPLAUSE)
NICK CAVE: A lot of people have bought the album
NICK CAVE: A lot of people on the strength of the Kylie song...
Thank you.
..and...and the album isn't really like that at all.
And so there was a certain kind of satisfaction about, um...
..about knowing that you could get...
..that we could get our records into...
..into the kind of living rooms of people that...
..where they would normally... where they don't really belong.
Let's see what happens.
(PIANO NOTES PLAY)
Are you ready? Yeah.
Wild God's your 18th album with The Bad Seeds.
What is it like to be in a band for such a long period of time?
Well, I have a lot of pride in The Bad Seeds, What is it like to be in a band for such a long period of time?
Well, I have a lot of pride in The Bad Seeds,
and I have a lot of pride that we're still around.
When it comes into the "Ah!" in the background, just like...
I think all of the Bad Seeds pretty much feel the same way,
I think all of the Bad Seeds that very often if you're in a band,
it's like a kind of marriage or something like that
it's like a kind of marriage that becomes stuck,
and I've tended to that becomes stuck,
and I've tended to move people around.
and I've tended to People have come, people have gone.
The Bad Seeds remain a fluid thing.
There's a implicit understanding within The Bad Seeds The Bad Seeds remain a fluid thing.
There's a implicit understanding within The Bad Seeds
that the music will always be different,
and so no-one's sitting back complacent
and so no-one's sitting back within...within the group.
And that just keeps the music inventive
And that just keeps the music and going in different places.
# Bring your spirit down... # and going in different places.
# Bring your spirit down... #
I don't like to write songs.
It's the last thing I want to do.
Because it's difficult to write songs
and it really requires something of you.
And so I set a date and think,
"Alright, I gotta make a new record."
This... This one was January the first of last year.
I sat down.
I don't...haven't written a song in years,
and start to put together ideas for a record.
I'm always aware that the next record, if it's any good,
I'm always aware that it's going to lose some fans.
But, I don't know, I just feel like I still got things to say, it's going to lose some fans.
But, I don't know, I just feel like I still got things to say,
and I feel energised about things and, you know, on it goes.
(LAUGHS) and, you know, on it goes.
(LAUGHS)
# I'm a wild god, baby, I'm a wild god... #
# I'm a wild god, baby, (CHEERING, APPLAUSE)
# Come sail your ships around me (CHEERING, APPLAUSE)
# Come sail your ships around me
# And burn your bridges down
# We make a little history, baby
# Every time you come around... #
Captions by Red Bee Media
Copyright Australian Broadcasting Corporation