1 00:00:15,100 --> 00:00:16,540 Hello. 2 00:00:16,540 --> 00:00:20,020 Tonight's Australian Story is the kind of sweeping saga 3 00:00:20,020 --> 00:00:23,140 that would sell a million copies if it was a novel. 4 00:00:23,140 --> 00:00:23,380 that would sell a million copies if it was a novel. A beautiful but rugged setting, 5 00:00:23,380 --> 00:00:25,300 A beautiful but rugged setting, 6 00:00:25,300 --> 00:00:28,460 an ordinary family against powerful authorities, 7 00:00:28,460 --> 00:00:31,660 and at the heart of it all, a grand love story. 8 00:00:31,660 --> 00:00:34,300 Chris and Jacquie Henggeler raised a family 9 00:00:34,300 --> 00:00:37,540 in one of the most unforgiving parts of Australia, 10 00:00:37,540 --> 00:00:40,100 enduring challenges few could imagine. 11 00:00:40,100 --> 00:00:43,980 And right now, they're facing the biggest one of all 12 00:00:43,980 --> 00:00:47,300 as Chris fights for his mission to regenerate their land. 13 00:00:54,060 --> 00:00:57,700 MAN: Dad fell in love with Kachana the minute he saw it. 14 00:00:57,700 --> 00:01:01,140 He often refers to it, you know, almost in a way as his calling. 15 00:01:02,340 --> 00:01:04,580 He said his dream is to leave this planet a little bit better 16 00:01:04,580 --> 00:01:04,820 He said his dream is to leave than how he found it. 17 00:01:04,820 --> 00:01:06,060 than how he found it. 18 00:01:07,100 --> 00:01:09,700 And it has become his life. 19 00:01:09,700 --> 00:01:12,060 It has become his life! 20 00:01:16,940 --> 00:01:20,180 CHRIS: When I came and looked at this, 21 00:01:20,180 --> 00:01:22,700 I thought, "Well, I don't have to keep looking. 22 00:01:23,900 --> 00:01:26,140 "This ticks all the boxes and more." 23 00:01:30,380 --> 00:01:32,900 But it took us a while to realise 24 00:01:32,900 --> 00:01:35,860 actually this country is a skeleton of what it could be. 25 00:01:37,420 --> 00:01:39,940 This country comes with a custodianship obligation 26 00:01:39,940 --> 00:01:43,340 and we need to look after these beautiful landscapes 27 00:01:43,340 --> 00:01:43,580 and we need to look after and to restore them. 28 00:01:43,580 --> 00:01:44,780 and to restore them. 29 00:01:45,780 --> 00:01:48,780 WOMAN: Chris's work has been absolutely amazing. 30 00:01:48,780 --> 00:01:52,060 He has transformed a desert into an oasis. 31 00:01:53,300 --> 00:01:57,100 When I first moved here, there was so little vegetation around. 32 00:01:58,500 --> 00:02:01,540 And now I walk around and I see grass everywhere. 33 00:02:01,540 --> 00:02:01,780 And now I walk around I see life everywhere. 34 00:02:01,780 --> 00:02:04,100 I see life everywhere. 35 00:02:04,100 --> 00:02:06,060 I see water everywhere. 36 00:02:06,060 --> 00:02:07,700 Just watch yourself. 37 00:02:08,700 --> 00:02:12,060 MAN: It's an extraordinary case of regeneration 38 00:02:12,060 --> 00:02:15,220 at a time when we desperately need it. 39 00:02:15,220 --> 00:02:18,460 And it was playing out for a couple of decades 40 00:02:18,460 --> 00:02:22,060 when suddenly, as far as the station was concerned, 41 00:02:22,060 --> 00:02:24,580 they found themselves on the wrong side of the law. 42 00:02:26,220 --> 00:02:27,500 MAN 2: I've got better things to do 43 00:02:27,500 --> 00:02:29,220 than go to court with my own government. 44 00:02:29,220 --> 00:02:29,460 than go to court with If someone had said, you know, 45 00:02:29,460 --> 00:02:30,780 If someone had said, you know, 46 00:02:30,780 --> 00:02:33,260 that you're gonna be spending seven-odd years 47 00:02:33,260 --> 00:02:35,740 thinking about how to keep a few donkeys alive, 48 00:02:35,740 --> 00:02:39,140 I would have...you know, I would have laughed at the idea. 49 00:02:41,980 --> 00:02:45,860 If the science is not on my side, I deserve to be locked up. 50 00:02:45,860 --> 00:02:47,820 And if the science is on my side, 51 00:02:47,820 --> 00:02:49,860 well, I deserve an apology. 52 00:02:49,860 --> 00:02:52,020 PRODUCER: Would you go to jail over this? 53 00:02:52,020 --> 00:02:52,260 PRODUCER: Would you go to jail Yes. 54 00:02:52,260 --> 00:02:53,660 Yes. 55 00:03:07,060 --> 00:03:09,260 Our home is Kachana Station, 56 00:03:09,260 --> 00:03:13,260 which is 120km south-west of Kununurra. 57 00:03:13,260 --> 00:03:13,500 which is 120km south-west It's got no road access. 58 00:03:13,500 --> 00:03:15,340 It's got no road access. 59 00:03:15,340 --> 00:03:17,220 You can only reach it by air 60 00:03:17,220 --> 00:03:19,660 or by taking a five-day walk. 61 00:03:21,820 --> 00:03:24,540 MAN: It's an area bigger than Singapore, 62 00:03:24,540 --> 00:03:24,820 but had been abandoned, stripped of First Nations, of course, MAN: It's an area bigger than Singapore, 63 00:03:24,820 --> 00:03:27,660 but had been abandoned, stripped of First Nations, of course, 64 00:03:27,660 --> 00:03:30,300 and then abandoned by whitefellas who'd been out there. 65 00:03:30,300 --> 00:03:30,540 and then abandoned by whitefellas who'd been out there. (GROANS) 66 00:03:30,540 --> 00:03:31,860 (GROANS) 67 00:03:33,180 --> 00:03:36,540 CHRIS: When we first started, the intention was to do some 68 00:03:36,540 --> 00:03:39,340 pastoral venture and have tourism to subsidise us. 69 00:03:39,340 --> 00:03:39,580 pastoral venture and have tourism There is more shopping over there. 70 00:03:39,580 --> 00:03:41,500 There is more shopping over there. 71 00:03:41,500 --> 00:03:41,740 So I had no intention of becoming a landcare apostle There is more shopping over there. 72 00:03:41,740 --> 00:03:45,460 So I had no intention of becoming a landcare apostle 73 00:03:45,460 --> 00:03:45,700 So I had no intention or a prophet or whatever. 74 00:03:45,700 --> 00:03:47,260 or a prophet or whatever. 75 00:03:47,260 --> 00:03:47,460 or a prophet or whatever. We're just going down to the... 76 00:03:47,460 --> 00:03:48,820 We're just going down to the... 77 00:03:48,820 --> 00:03:49,060 Dad's very set in his ways, very single-minded, We're just going down to the... 78 00:03:49,060 --> 00:03:52,820 Dad's very set in his ways, very single-minded, 79 00:03:52,820 --> 00:03:53,060 Dad's very set in his ways, and it can sometimes be difficult 80 00:03:53,060 --> 00:03:55,380 and it can sometimes be difficult 81 00:03:55,380 --> 00:03:55,620 and it can sometimes be difficult working with such a strong personality as Dad's. 82 00:03:55,620 --> 00:04:00,700 working with such a strong personality as Dad's. 83 00:04:02,660 --> 00:04:07,020 WOMAN: Chris is absolutely not afraid to be unconventional, 84 00:04:07,020 --> 00:04:07,260 WOMAN: Chris is absolutely not to do things differently. 85 00:04:07,260 --> 00:04:08,820 to do things differently. 86 00:04:08,820 --> 00:04:11,460 This is as far as this goes. 87 00:04:11,460 --> 00:04:13,660 WOMAN: He swims against the stream. 88 00:04:14,740 --> 00:04:18,620 I'm a person who swims very much with the stream. 89 00:04:19,780 --> 00:04:22,660 I always try to change Chris. 90 00:04:25,180 --> 00:04:29,020 CHRIS: Kachana has been just a wonderful learning experience 91 00:04:29,020 --> 00:04:29,260 CHRIS: Kachana has been just that continues. 92 00:04:29,260 --> 00:04:30,780 that continues. 93 00:04:30,780 --> 00:04:35,340 But the price has been... unacceptable. 94 00:04:35,340 --> 00:04:37,580 I...had I known the price 95 00:04:37,580 --> 00:04:40,060 that Jacquie and my children would have to pay 96 00:04:40,060 --> 00:04:42,940 for my learning, I would not have embarked on this project. 97 00:04:49,300 --> 00:04:53,580 REPORTER: They called their oasis in this desert Kachana, 98 00:04:53,580 --> 00:04:56,900 an African word meaning faraway place. 99 00:04:56,900 --> 00:05:01,020 CHRIS: 25 years ago, Landline came out and did a segment on Kachana, 100 00:05:01,020 --> 00:05:04,500 and our children at the time were small, little helpers. 101 00:05:06,060 --> 00:05:08,660 (ON LANDLINE) I wanted something to do with cattle, 102 00:05:08,660 --> 00:05:10,140 at least enough cattle for self-sufficiency. 103 00:05:10,140 --> 00:05:10,380 at least enough cattle And we had sunshine, we had water. 104 00:05:10,380 --> 00:05:13,420 And we had sunshine, we had water. 105 00:05:13,420 --> 00:05:13,660 So, yeah, I believed that I could compensate And we had sunshine, we had water. 106 00:05:13,660 --> 00:05:16,660 So, yeah, I believed that I could compensate 107 00:05:16,660 --> 00:05:18,740 for my lack of experience and lack of knowledge 108 00:05:18,740 --> 00:05:19,020 for my lack of experience and lack of knowledge with a bit of common sense and perseverance. 109 00:05:19,020 --> 00:05:21,340 with a bit of common sense and perseverance. 110 00:05:21,340 --> 00:05:24,500 At the time when we did Landline, it was still, you know, 111 00:05:24,500 --> 00:05:27,860 like I was still trying to find my feet out here. 112 00:05:27,860 --> 00:05:28,100 like I was still trying It took a long time. 113 00:05:28,100 --> 00:05:29,180 It took a long time. 114 00:05:29,180 --> 00:05:29,420 MAN: What were your first impressions, Jacquie? It took a long time. 115 00:05:29,420 --> 00:05:31,500 MAN: What were your first impressions, Jacquie? 116 00:05:31,500 --> 00:05:33,380 I really enjoyed it. I liked the place. 117 00:05:34,620 --> 00:05:37,020 You know, you're still young, and I was in love 118 00:05:37,020 --> 00:05:40,460 and I think anything is possible at that stage. 119 00:05:41,940 --> 00:05:45,780 But I didn't realise how difficult it would be. 120 00:05:45,780 --> 00:05:46,020 But I didn't realise how difficult You know, I just... 121 00:05:46,020 --> 00:05:46,980 You know, I just... 122 00:05:46,980 --> 00:05:49,620 The terrain and everything, it was so new to me. 123 00:05:51,460 --> 00:05:57,260 I grew up in Switzerland, in a little village called Engelberg. 124 00:05:57,260 --> 00:06:00,340 You've got high mountains all around you 125 00:06:00,340 --> 00:06:04,900 where you can ski all year round, because there is always snow there. 126 00:06:04,900 --> 00:06:08,020 It is the total opposite of Kachana, 127 00:06:08,020 --> 00:06:11,820 not just the landscape, the way I grew up as well. 128 00:06:11,820 --> 00:06:12,060 not just the landscape, I had a very privileged lifestyle. 129 00:06:12,060 --> 00:06:14,420 I had a very privileged lifestyle. 130 00:06:14,420 --> 00:06:14,660 My parents managed a hotel I had a very privileged lifestyle. 131 00:06:14,660 --> 00:06:18,540 My parents managed a hotel in that village. 132 00:06:18,540 --> 00:06:23,500 You know, I never had to cook or do much. 133 00:06:23,500 --> 00:06:23,740 You know, I never had to cook I met Chris, I was in Year 6 134 00:06:23,740 --> 00:06:26,100 I met Chris, I was in Year 6 135 00:06:26,100 --> 00:06:30,420 and we were told that a new girl was going to join our class 136 00:06:30,420 --> 00:06:32,980 and that they had just moved from Africa 137 00:06:32,980 --> 00:06:34,860 and that they had lost their farm. 138 00:06:34,860 --> 00:06:38,420 And so this new girl was Chris's sister. 139 00:06:40,140 --> 00:06:44,420 CHRIS: I grew up on a little farm in Southern Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe. 140 00:06:44,420 --> 00:06:47,980 Dad was Swiss-born and Mum was Austrian. 141 00:06:47,980 --> 00:06:50,580 And in '73, 142 00:06:50,580 --> 00:06:52,380 for security reasons, 143 00:06:52,380 --> 00:06:56,900 the family decided to move back to Switzerland. 144 00:06:57,980 --> 00:07:00,220 Our farm was in a hotspot of one of the areas 145 00:07:00,220 --> 00:07:02,580 where the liberation war started 146 00:07:02,580 --> 00:07:05,540 and it was pretty clear that we weren't going to be able 147 00:07:05,540 --> 00:07:05,780 and it was pretty clear to keep the family farm. 148 00:07:05,780 --> 00:07:07,180 to keep the family farm. 149 00:07:07,180 --> 00:07:07,420 FILE FOOTAGE: The new flag was raised, to keep the family farm. 150 00:07:07,420 --> 00:07:08,900 FILE FOOTAGE: The new flag was raised, 151 00:07:08,900 --> 00:07:13,140 Robert Mugabe's government assumed power, and Zimbabwe was born. 152 00:07:15,500 --> 00:07:18,140 CHRIS: What drew me to Australia was really the wide open spaces. 153 00:07:18,140 --> 00:07:21,660 Europe was too crowded for me and too controlled. 154 00:07:22,940 --> 00:07:25,940 Being a farm boy, I needed land. 155 00:07:25,940 --> 00:07:28,660 I was looking for a place to commit to. I was looking for a home. 156 00:07:29,900 --> 00:07:34,220 I wanted my children, if I had any, to grow up in a bush setting. 157 00:07:34,220 --> 00:07:36,740 When I got to the Kimberley, I thought, "This is it. 158 00:07:36,740 --> 00:07:38,420 "I don't need to go any further." 159 00:07:38,420 --> 00:07:41,940 It was far enough to be able to do our own thing 160 00:07:41,940 --> 00:07:42,180 It was far enough to be able and hopefully, be left alone. 161 00:07:42,180 --> 00:07:43,780 and hopefully, be left alone. 162 00:07:47,820 --> 00:07:51,180 JACQUIE: Chris had already emigrated to Australia 163 00:07:51,180 --> 00:07:54,540 but then he came back to Switzerland for quite a few months 164 00:07:54,540 --> 00:07:54,780 but then he came back to Switzerland because his mum wasn't too well. 165 00:07:54,780 --> 00:07:57,020 because his mum wasn't too well. 166 00:07:57,020 --> 00:08:00,540 I was probably 24 and he would have been 29. 167 00:08:01,740 --> 00:08:03,540 I'd last seen her as a little girl, 168 00:08:03,540 --> 00:08:03,780 but I'd never really looked at her... I'd last seen her as a little girl, 169 00:08:03,780 --> 00:08:10,260 but I'd never really looked at her... as a young woman, prospective wife. 170 00:08:10,260 --> 00:08:13,660 JACQUIE: He had told me about the project Kachana. 171 00:08:13,660 --> 00:08:18,220 He had told me that this is where his heart was. 172 00:08:18,220 --> 00:08:21,420 I couldn't tell that he was stubborn straightaway 173 00:08:21,420 --> 00:08:23,180 but he knew his goals. 174 00:08:23,180 --> 00:08:25,300 He knew where he wanted to go in life. 175 00:08:26,460 --> 00:08:28,860 She was in love and blind and obviously didn't see 176 00:08:28,860 --> 00:08:29,100 She was in love and blind how hard it would be. 177 00:08:29,100 --> 00:08:30,180 how hard it would be. 178 00:08:30,180 --> 00:08:30,420 I didn't think it would be how hard it would be. 179 00:08:30,420 --> 00:08:32,300 I didn't think it would be that hard either. 180 00:08:32,300 --> 00:08:36,020 Yes, I can remember we watched Crocodile Dundee and I thought, 181 00:08:36,020 --> 00:08:39,860 "Oh, this is my own... This is gonna be my Crocodile Dundee," 182 00:08:39,860 --> 00:08:40,100 "Oh, this is my own... This is something like that. 183 00:08:40,100 --> 00:08:41,380 something like that. 184 00:08:41,380 --> 00:08:43,060 (CHUCKLES) Yeah. 185 00:08:44,700 --> 00:08:48,460 We moved out here in 1991. 186 00:08:48,460 --> 00:08:53,660 Our first bedroom was the back of the Land Cruisers. 187 00:08:53,660 --> 00:08:57,620 The plan was, oh, we're gonna just camp here for maybe two years 188 00:08:57,620 --> 00:09:01,700 and then in that time we'll build the homestead, you know, 189 00:09:01,700 --> 00:09:04,420 but that never eventuated. 190 00:09:04,420 --> 00:09:04,660 And so where we actually camped became our home, but that never eventuated. 191 00:09:04,660 --> 00:09:09,060 And so where we actually camped became our home, 192 00:09:09,060 --> 00:09:09,340 And so where we actually camped and, yeah, that's where we still are. 193 00:09:09,340 --> 00:09:11,660 and, yeah, that's where we still are. 194 00:09:12,660 --> 00:09:15,380 CHRIS: We don't have roads. Everything has to be flown in. 195 00:09:15,380 --> 00:09:19,940 So I was very fortunate insofar that I was able to explain to my wife 196 00:09:19,940 --> 00:09:23,500 that the aircraft and the airstrip was more important than the house. 197 00:09:23,500 --> 00:09:27,020 So we bought an aircraft very early in the piece. 198 00:09:27,020 --> 00:09:30,660 I had to learn to fly. Then we started building airstrips. 199 00:09:33,740 --> 00:09:37,220 JACQUIE: The cooking was all done in camp ovens, on the fire, 200 00:09:37,220 --> 00:09:40,260 which got really annoying during the wet season 201 00:09:40,260 --> 00:09:43,780 because, you know, no sooner had you built a nice fire 202 00:09:43,780 --> 00:09:46,300 to maybe bake bread in the camp oven, 203 00:09:46,300 --> 00:09:48,260 you had some rain and then, you know, 204 00:09:48,260 --> 00:09:48,500 you had some rain you had to start all over again. 205 00:09:48,500 --> 00:09:50,100 you had to start all over again. 206 00:09:50,100 --> 00:09:52,500 So that was hard work. 207 00:09:52,500 --> 00:09:54,180 Yep, very hard work. 208 00:09:56,620 --> 00:09:59,940 In those first years, there were many, many occasions 209 00:09:59,940 --> 00:10:03,740 where I could have just packed up and left. 210 00:10:03,740 --> 00:10:07,860 But to me, at that stage, I already had little children. 211 00:10:07,860 --> 00:10:12,660 Chris was the most fantastic father I could wish for any child. 212 00:10:12,660 --> 00:10:16,340 They were so involved in, you know, his daily life. 213 00:10:17,900 --> 00:10:20,380 I probably would have had to leave on my own 214 00:10:20,380 --> 00:10:24,380 because I could not break those children's hearts, nor Chris's heart 215 00:10:24,380 --> 00:10:27,500 because he just... he's such a good... He loves family. 216 00:10:29,500 --> 00:10:33,580 Romeo, Zulu six, Whisky, X-ray, Victor, are you there? Over. 217 00:10:33,580 --> 00:10:33,820 Romeo, Zulu six, Whisky, X-ray, Good morning, Bobby. 218 00:10:33,820 --> 00:10:36,060 Good morning, Bobby. 219 00:10:36,060 --> 00:10:39,700 MAN: We could only get into town maybe four or five times a year, 220 00:10:39,700 --> 00:10:43,940 and it made you very self-reliant and resourceful. 221 00:10:43,940 --> 00:10:44,220 We didn't just have a Bunnings down the road, so you had to... and it made you very self-reliant and resourceful. 222 00:10:44,220 --> 00:10:47,060 We didn't just have a Bunnings down the road, so you had to... 223 00:10:47,060 --> 00:10:48,500 ..you know, you had to look after your stuff. 224 00:10:48,500 --> 00:10:48,780 ..you know, you had to look after your stuff. Where you broke the handle and the shovel, 225 00:10:48,780 --> 00:10:50,180 Where you broke the handle and the shovel, 226 00:10:50,180 --> 00:10:53,660 you'd have to go and find a tree, find the right branch, 227 00:10:53,660 --> 00:10:53,900 you'd have to go and find a tree, make a new one. 228 00:10:53,900 --> 00:10:55,100 make a new one. 229 00:10:58,580 --> 00:11:01,460 REBECCA: We had a very free childhood, I would say. 230 00:11:01,460 --> 00:11:01,700 REBECCA: We had a very free We were always outside, outdoors. 231 00:11:01,700 --> 00:11:05,100 We were always outside, outdoors. 232 00:11:05,100 --> 00:11:06,460 When we went to Kununurra, 233 00:11:06,460 --> 00:11:06,700 our friends would just be, like, jumping on a trampoline, you know, When we went to Kununurra, 234 00:11:06,700 --> 00:11:09,540 our friends would just be, like, jumping on a trampoline, you know, 235 00:11:09,540 --> 00:11:10,860 in a small backyard. 236 00:11:10,860 --> 00:11:11,100 in a small backyard. And we were like, "Well, OK, you know, where's the fun in this?" 237 00:11:11,100 --> 00:11:14,820 And we were like, "Well, OK, you know, where's the fun in this?" 238 00:11:16,500 --> 00:11:19,500 WOMAN: From an early age, Dad put a lot of responsibility on us, 239 00:11:19,500 --> 00:11:24,020 and we helped out a lot before and after school. 240 00:11:24,020 --> 00:11:25,060 So there was always chores, 241 00:11:25,060 --> 00:11:25,300 and, um, you know, he wouldn't tell us how to do things, So there was always chores, 242 00:11:25,300 --> 00:11:28,820 and, um, you know, he wouldn't tell us how to do things, 243 00:11:28,820 --> 00:11:29,100 and, um, you know, he wouldn't tell us how to do things, he would tell us what needed to get done. 244 00:11:29,100 --> 00:11:30,460 he would tell us what needed to get done. 245 00:11:32,020 --> 00:11:34,700 CHRIS: For the children, it wasn't unconventional at all 246 00:11:34,700 --> 00:11:36,260 because this was reality for the children. 247 00:11:36,260 --> 00:11:38,380 The rest of the world was unconventional. 248 00:11:40,340 --> 00:11:42,900 REPORTER: Pretty much the only thing that's come off this property 249 00:11:42,900 --> 00:11:43,140 REPORTER: Pretty much the only thing in the past decade or so is soil. 250 00:11:43,140 --> 00:11:45,380 in the past decade or so is soil. 251 00:11:45,380 --> 00:11:48,340 Possibly millions of tons of it, washed down the creeks 252 00:11:48,340 --> 00:11:52,580 and rivers and out to sea during a wet season deluge. 253 00:11:52,580 --> 00:11:55,340 I was passionate about the land, passionate about conservation, 254 00:11:55,340 --> 00:11:55,620 but I had no inkling that this country was... I was passionate about the land, passionate about conservation, 255 00:11:55,620 --> 00:11:59,140 but I had no inkling that this country was... 256 00:11:59,140 --> 00:12:00,700 ..that there was an issue here. 257 00:12:01,820 --> 00:12:05,180 So by '92, we'd realised that something was very wrong. 258 00:12:05,180 --> 00:12:08,060 The very areas that had attracted us, these little oases, 259 00:12:08,060 --> 00:12:12,220 were being carved up and draining and dying. 260 00:12:15,380 --> 00:12:18,580 Every morning I would wake up with sand between my teeth, 261 00:12:18,580 --> 00:12:21,780 because when you had the wind and the storms come in, 262 00:12:21,780 --> 00:12:22,020 because when you had the wind and the storms come in, there was no vegetation around. 263 00:12:22,020 --> 00:12:23,620 there was no vegetation around. 264 00:12:23,620 --> 00:12:25,100 It was just dirt. 265 00:12:26,460 --> 00:12:30,740 And Chris knew from what he had seen in Africa 266 00:12:30,740 --> 00:12:33,740 where desertification had started, 267 00:12:33,740 --> 00:12:37,940 he knew the same thing was happening in these rangelands. 268 00:12:37,940 --> 00:12:38,180 he knew the same thing was That we were losing a lot of soil, 269 00:12:38,180 --> 00:12:40,420 That we were losing a lot of soil, 270 00:12:40,420 --> 00:12:45,820 and unless something was done, it would all be a desert one day. 271 00:12:47,260 --> 00:12:50,420 CHRIS: The conventional thinking is that we had too many animals. 272 00:12:50,420 --> 00:12:52,460 When we first arrived on the property, 273 00:12:52,460 --> 00:12:55,100 my estimation was that about 1,200 head of feral cattle 274 00:12:55,100 --> 00:12:55,340 my estimation was that about and about 400 feral donkeys, 275 00:12:55,340 --> 00:12:57,580 and about 400 feral donkeys, 276 00:12:57,580 --> 00:12:59,100 and so then we did the destock. 277 00:12:59,100 --> 00:13:02,620 And then after the destock, things got worse. 278 00:13:02,620 --> 00:13:04,060 All of a sudden we had a fire problem. 279 00:13:05,900 --> 00:13:08,740 We forgot to tell the grass to stop growing, 280 00:13:08,740 --> 00:13:11,780 and the grass grew and we ended up with a fire nightmare. 281 00:13:15,020 --> 00:13:18,540 That's when he then started going back to, you know, 282 00:13:18,540 --> 00:13:22,820 doing different courses, learning more about it, 283 00:13:22,820 --> 00:13:26,340 finding like-minded people to talk to. 284 00:13:26,340 --> 00:13:26,580 finding like-minded Mostly they weren't in Australia, 285 00:13:26,580 --> 00:13:28,620 Mostly they weren't in Australia, 286 00:13:28,620 --> 00:13:30,820 they certainly weren't in the Kimberley. 287 00:13:32,820 --> 00:13:37,100 CHRIS: In '97, I found out about the work of Alan Savory 288 00:13:37,100 --> 00:13:40,060 and that in seasonally dry environments you need 289 00:13:40,060 --> 00:13:43,460 the large herbivores for their mouths and hooves 290 00:13:43,460 --> 00:13:43,700 the large herbivores to keep the soil healthy. 291 00:13:43,700 --> 00:13:45,540 to keep the soil healthy. 292 00:13:45,540 --> 00:13:47,860 That's when the penny dropped and I realised, 293 00:13:47,860 --> 00:13:50,700 "Hey, we need more mouths and hooves, not less." 294 00:13:52,860 --> 00:13:55,740 Basically, we're getting them to do what their wild ancestors 295 00:13:55,740 --> 00:13:58,780 would have done prior to domestication, 296 00:13:58,780 --> 00:14:01,940 and that's a role that's sorely needed in the Australian landscape. 297 00:14:03,500 --> 00:14:07,020 Our cattle are very valuable as a landscape management tool. 298 00:14:07,020 --> 00:14:10,060 They mulch, fertilise and prune vegetation, 299 00:14:10,060 --> 00:14:12,580 which helps build the soil structure. 300 00:14:13,780 --> 00:14:17,580 Each one will take about 15 kilos of manure 301 00:14:17,580 --> 00:14:17,820 Each one will take about and spread it around the landscape. 302 00:14:17,820 --> 00:14:19,220 and spread it around the landscape. 303 00:14:19,220 --> 00:14:21,620 So we've got these landscapes... 304 00:14:21,620 --> 00:14:24,860 ..seasonally dry landscape that's dotted with 305 00:14:24,860 --> 00:14:25,100 ..seasonally dry landscape these biologically active microsites. 306 00:14:25,100 --> 00:14:27,180 these biologically active microsites. 307 00:14:27,180 --> 00:14:29,180 It's still humid. It's damp. 308 00:14:29,180 --> 00:14:32,020 This will be working for another two months, 309 00:14:32,020 --> 00:14:32,260 This will be working and then it just goes dormant. 310 00:14:32,260 --> 00:14:33,940 and then it just goes dormant. 311 00:14:33,940 --> 00:14:36,860 And when the rain comes, it'll explode with life. 312 00:14:38,340 --> 00:14:40,580 And the question is, what do we do in the areas 313 00:14:40,580 --> 00:14:42,140 where the cattle don't readily go to? 314 00:14:42,140 --> 00:14:44,820 And we already had donkeys, 315 00:14:44,820 --> 00:14:50,340 and I realised, well, maybe let's not shoot the donkeys, 316 00:14:50,340 --> 00:14:53,420 let's have a no-shoot zone between this gorge and the next gorge. 317 00:14:53,420 --> 00:14:53,660 let's have a no-shoot zone between And we started experimenting. 318 00:14:53,660 --> 00:14:55,900 And we started experimenting. 319 00:14:57,260 --> 00:15:00,260 JACQUIE: We have very, very rough country out here. 320 00:15:00,260 --> 00:15:04,100 We have a lot of rocks, we have a lot of, you know, steep banks. 321 00:15:04,100 --> 00:15:06,460 The cattle won't go up there, but the donkeys will. 322 00:15:09,220 --> 00:15:12,700 CHRIS: We've learned that we can manipulate the donkey behaviour 323 00:15:12,700 --> 00:15:16,580 through lick blocks, through how we shift the cattle around. 324 00:15:16,580 --> 00:15:21,140 It's actually been a surprise to me that donkeys are a key ingredient, 325 00:15:21,140 --> 00:15:22,660 because I didn't like donkeys. 326 00:15:23,900 --> 00:15:27,660 By appreciating the value that these animals could have in a landscape, 327 00:15:27,660 --> 00:15:30,980 that's when I started getting enthusiastic about it. 328 00:15:30,980 --> 00:15:32,820 (SHOUTS) (DONKEYS BRAY) 329 00:15:37,620 --> 00:15:41,260 When I was young, and Dad first started out there, 330 00:15:41,260 --> 00:15:41,500 they laughed at him. When I was young, and Dad first started out there, 331 00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:43,060 they laughed at him. 332 00:15:43,060 --> 00:15:46,060 They would say things behind his back, no doubt. 333 00:15:48,060 --> 00:15:49,620 JACQUIE: Most people, you know, 334 00:15:49,620 --> 00:15:52,660 thought he was a crazy Rhodesian, maybe. 335 00:15:52,660 --> 00:15:56,340 I guess they couldn't really understand because, you know, 336 00:15:56,340 --> 00:15:59,780 like, obviously you have to have an income somewhere, 337 00:15:59,780 --> 00:16:02,580 and with a young family, why would you suddenly put 338 00:16:02,580 --> 00:16:06,700 all your efforts into regenerating land? 339 00:16:06,700 --> 00:16:06,940 all your efforts BOBBY: It is a bit of a challenge 340 00:16:06,940 --> 00:16:08,260 BOBBY: It is a bit of a challenge 341 00:16:08,260 --> 00:16:08,500 because Kachana hasn't paid its own way yet, BOBBY: It is a bit of a challenge 342 00:16:08,500 --> 00:16:10,780 because Kachana hasn't paid its own way yet, 343 00:16:10,780 --> 00:16:15,300 um, and we are supporting it off...by our farm income. 344 00:16:16,260 --> 00:16:17,940 Oh, there's a spider there. 345 00:16:17,940 --> 00:16:19,860 JACQUIE: Chris had some investments, 346 00:16:19,860 --> 00:16:23,060 we've got an apartment in town that we rent out, 347 00:16:23,060 --> 00:16:26,460 and then I sometimes go and work a little bit as well. 348 00:16:29,140 --> 00:16:33,660 CHRIS: The hardest part was the social rejection and the ridicule. 349 00:16:33,660 --> 00:16:36,300 I found the peer pressure was more of an issue for Jacquie 350 00:16:36,300 --> 00:16:36,540 I found the peer pressure and the children. 351 00:16:36,540 --> 00:16:37,820 and the children. 352 00:16:37,820 --> 00:16:38,060 I could always see the reward and the children. 353 00:16:38,060 --> 00:16:40,300 I could always see the reward in what I was doing 354 00:16:40,300 --> 00:16:43,100 by looking outside and nature responding, 355 00:16:43,100 --> 00:16:46,700 but the drudgery of being based in the camp 356 00:16:46,700 --> 00:16:46,940 but the drudgery of being and having primitive conditions 357 00:16:46,940 --> 00:16:48,140 and having primitive conditions 358 00:16:48,140 --> 00:16:51,220 and people thinking your husband's a nutter, 359 00:16:51,220 --> 00:16:53,540 or your dad's nutter, you know, that was the pressure 360 00:16:53,540 --> 00:16:53,780 or your dad's nutter, you know, that the children suffered from. 361 00:16:53,780 --> 00:16:55,260 that the children suffered from. 362 00:16:55,260 --> 00:16:57,860 Like, especially when they left here and realised, 363 00:16:57,860 --> 00:17:00,860 "Oh, nobody can relate to what we've been through." 364 00:17:02,180 --> 00:17:04,980 KRISTINA: I think now people are starting to wake up and listen, 365 00:17:04,980 --> 00:17:09,340 and more and more people are going towards the regenerative 366 00:17:09,340 --> 00:17:12,340 way of managing the land, and that's really exciting. 367 00:17:15,100 --> 00:17:17,140 ANTHONY: The method of regeneration 368 00:17:17,140 --> 00:17:17,380 is 100% ground cover ANTHONY: The method of regeneration 369 00:17:17,380 --> 00:17:20,580 is 100% ground cover 100% of the time. 370 00:17:20,580 --> 00:17:20,860 So, he achieves this with what he's framed as the new megafauna - is 100% ground cover 100% of the time. 371 00:17:20,860 --> 00:17:25,220 So, he achieves this with what he's framed as the new megafauna - 372 00:17:25,220 --> 00:17:29,500 large herbivores that used to run on the Australian continent. 373 00:17:29,500 --> 00:17:29,780 large herbivores that used to run on the Australian continent. The diprotodonts of today, he would say. 374 00:17:29,780 --> 00:17:32,180 The diprotodonts of today, he would say. 375 00:17:34,020 --> 00:17:37,220 This is a fledgling experiment in many ways. 376 00:17:37,220 --> 00:17:39,500 They still don't have enough megafauna 377 00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:39,740 They still don't have to cover their whole 200,000 acres, 378 00:17:39,740 --> 00:17:41,980 to cover their whole 200,000 acres, 379 00:17:41,980 --> 00:17:43,940 but they've got these model areas 380 00:17:43,940 --> 00:17:46,020 which show extraordinary regeneration 381 00:17:46,020 --> 00:17:47,620 of grasslands at Kachana. 382 00:17:50,180 --> 00:17:53,940 Now we've got this ground cover, it actually acts as a filter. 383 00:17:53,940 --> 00:17:56,820 So all the water that goes through here into the main river 384 00:17:56,820 --> 00:17:59,060 gets filtered, and you've got clean water going out there. 385 00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:06,140 I can only admire the work that he's done out at Kachana Station, 386 00:18:06,140 --> 00:18:08,900 you know, and he's used his cattle and he's used his donkeys 387 00:18:08,900 --> 00:18:09,140 you know, and he's used his cattle and he's used his donkeys to take care of country. 388 00:18:09,140 --> 00:18:10,820 to take care of country. 389 00:18:12,220 --> 00:18:15,860 You know, I believe that what Chris is doing is a perfect example 390 00:18:15,860 --> 00:18:18,140 of what Aboriginal people want to see on their country. 391 00:18:21,180 --> 00:18:25,460 JACQUIE: A few years ago, Chris won an award as soil champion 392 00:18:25,460 --> 00:18:29,460 for the Kimberley region for, you know, the work he was doing. 393 00:18:29,460 --> 00:18:29,700 for the Kimberley region for, And I think, "Wow, this is amazing." 394 00:18:29,700 --> 00:18:32,460 And I think, "Wow, this is amazing." 395 00:18:33,940 --> 00:18:37,100 CHRIS: There are a number of tests for rehydrating your property, 396 00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:40,420 and the simplest test is go to the lowest end of your property 397 00:18:40,420 --> 00:18:42,660 and drink what runs off it. 398 00:18:42,660 --> 00:18:44,980 And I'm perfectly happy to do that. 399 00:18:44,980 --> 00:18:46,020 That's good. 400 00:18:48,940 --> 00:18:50,820 Yeah, good enough for me. 401 00:18:50,820 --> 00:18:52,260 Cheers. 402 00:18:52,260 --> 00:18:55,100 He's slowly starting to get recognised, which is really nice 403 00:18:55,100 --> 00:18:56,940 because it's been a long battle for him, 404 00:18:56,940 --> 00:19:00,700 and I think it still is a fairly big battle, especially with the donkeys. 405 00:19:04,620 --> 00:19:06,860 CHRIS: We thought we were doing quite well 406 00:19:06,860 --> 00:19:09,780 and it was looking very promising, 407 00:19:09,780 --> 00:19:14,300 and then all of a sudden 2018, the rules seemed to have changed. 408 00:19:15,860 --> 00:19:19,300 We were told, no, we'd have to get rid of the donkeys. 409 00:19:20,620 --> 00:19:25,900 And, yeah, I guess there was a... on my part, it was just disbelief. 410 00:19:28,420 --> 00:19:31,580 ANTHONY: The Department of Agriculture and Regional Development 411 00:19:31,580 --> 00:19:35,980 issued a shoot order to Kachana Station to kill the donkeys 412 00:19:35,980 --> 00:19:39,540 they'd observed in a helicopter flyover inspection. 413 00:19:39,540 --> 00:19:43,300 It's effectively a culling order that they're expected to implement. 414 00:19:43,300 --> 00:19:45,900 FILE FOOTAGE: The wild donkeys are descendants of pack animals 415 00:19:45,900 --> 00:19:46,140 FILE FOOTAGE: The wild donkeys used in the old gold rush days. 416 00:19:46,140 --> 00:19:47,660 used in the old gold rush days. 417 00:19:49,420 --> 00:19:52,300 ANTHONY: The wild donkey story started when donkeys were 418 00:19:52,300 --> 00:19:55,580 brought out to Australia as transport and beasts of burden. 419 00:19:56,980 --> 00:20:00,220 And, like many other pests today, 420 00:20:00,220 --> 00:20:04,740 they were let go and then came to be regarded as feral, 421 00:20:04,740 --> 00:20:07,580 as they were doing extraordinary damage to the landscape. 422 00:20:11,100 --> 00:20:14,700 In the Kimberley alone, upwards of half a million donkeys 423 00:20:14,700 --> 00:20:14,980 have been culled in the last four decades or so. In the Kimberley alone, upwards of half a million donkeys 424 00:20:14,980 --> 00:20:17,820 have been culled in the last four decades or so. 425 00:20:19,980 --> 00:20:23,380 MAN: In relation to Kachana Station, I can't comment on the specifics 426 00:20:23,380 --> 00:20:23,620 MAN: In relation to Kachana Station, of what they're looking to achieve 427 00:20:23,620 --> 00:20:25,300 of what they're looking to achieve 428 00:20:25,300 --> 00:20:27,420 in the use of donkeys on their property, 429 00:20:27,420 --> 00:20:27,700 but donkeys are certainly one of the major problems in the use of donkeys on their property, 430 00:20:27,700 --> 00:20:31,180 but donkeys are certainly one of the major problems 431 00:20:31,180 --> 00:20:31,420 in northern Australia. one of the major problems 432 00:20:31,420 --> 00:20:32,980 in northern Australia. 433 00:20:32,980 --> 00:20:33,220 in northern Australia. They can carry weeds, and they do have the tendency to change 434 00:20:33,220 --> 00:20:38,060 They can carry weeds, and they do have the tendency to change 435 00:20:38,060 --> 00:20:42,100 soil structure by removing the native grasses, 436 00:20:42,100 --> 00:20:46,020 and in some cases they will create erosion on the banks 437 00:20:46,020 --> 00:20:49,260 or actually get into the water and increase turbidity. 438 00:20:50,420 --> 00:20:54,780 We think of donkeys in line with lantana, cane toads, 439 00:20:54,780 --> 00:20:55,020 We think of donkeys in line feral horses, etc. 440 00:20:55,020 --> 00:20:57,300 feral horses, etc. 441 00:20:58,660 --> 00:21:02,420 Under the guidelines of the WA state legislation 442 00:21:02,420 --> 00:21:05,220 that has declared donkeys as a feral pest, 443 00:21:05,220 --> 00:21:08,420 it is the responsibility of the landholder to control 444 00:21:08,420 --> 00:21:11,980 and manage donkeys on their landholdings. 445 00:21:14,900 --> 00:21:19,180 CHRIS: I'm not for one minute suggesting we need to sort of unleash 446 00:21:19,180 --> 00:21:19,420 CHRIS: I'm not for one minute wild donkeys all over the Kimberley. 447 00:21:19,420 --> 00:21:22,020 wild donkeys all over the Kimberley. 448 00:21:22,020 --> 00:21:26,140 I'm interested in managing the resource that I'm responsible for. 449 00:21:26,140 --> 00:21:28,340 The feral behaviour we've always culled against 450 00:21:28,340 --> 00:21:29,780 right from the start, and we still do. 451 00:21:31,540 --> 00:21:35,940 We had up to 150-odd, depending on the seasons. 452 00:21:35,940 --> 00:21:39,620 If it was a drier season, we'd bring that number back down. 453 00:21:39,620 --> 00:21:39,860 If it was a drier season, we'd bring that number back down. (HELICOPTER BLADES CLATTER) 454 00:21:39,860 --> 00:21:43,540 (HELICOPTER BLADES CLATTER) 455 00:21:43,540 --> 00:21:47,180 You know, I've shot an awful lot more donkeys than any one 456 00:21:47,180 --> 00:21:49,860 of those people sending us letters in the department have. 457 00:21:49,860 --> 00:21:54,540 But to go out there and shoot our little population of donkeys 458 00:21:54,540 --> 00:21:56,820 that we know to do good, no, that won't be me. 459 00:21:56,820 --> 00:21:57,060 that we know to do good, And it won't be Chris. 460 00:21:57,060 --> 00:21:58,860 And it won't be Chris. 461 00:22:01,260 --> 00:22:03,940 CHRIS: I realise we've got to look at it from the science point of view, 462 00:22:03,940 --> 00:22:08,700 and the role of science is not to defend your hypothesis, 463 00:22:08,700 --> 00:22:08,940 and the role of science is not it's to challenge it. 464 00:22:08,940 --> 00:22:10,580 it's to challenge it. 465 00:22:10,580 --> 00:22:14,100 So we need to have research, and we came across Arian Wallach. 466 00:22:15,740 --> 00:22:16,980 Thanks for coming up. 467 00:22:16,980 --> 00:22:22,660 ARIAN: I'm an ecologist interested in feral and invasive species. 468 00:22:22,660 --> 00:22:22,900 ARIAN: I'm an ecologist interested The first time I came to Kachana, 469 00:22:22,900 --> 00:22:25,140 The first time I came to Kachana, 470 00:22:25,140 --> 00:22:29,620 I was struck by the complexity 471 00:22:29,620 --> 00:22:29,820 I was struck by the complexity of what was going on here. 472 00:22:29,820 --> 00:22:32,060 of what was going on here. 473 00:22:32,060 --> 00:22:33,460 CHRIS: So, I run this country here. 474 00:22:33,460 --> 00:22:35,940 You know, it's too rough for cattle. Yeah. 475 00:22:35,940 --> 00:22:38,980 And you can see the donkeys, they go up here regularly. 476 00:22:38,980 --> 00:22:39,220 And you can see the donkeys, Yeah. 477 00:22:39,220 --> 00:22:39,980 Yeah. 478 00:22:39,980 --> 00:22:40,220 ARIAN: In this case, Yeah. 479 00:22:40,220 --> 00:22:42,220 ARIAN: In this case, we have an opportunity 480 00:22:42,220 --> 00:22:45,100 to ask some really interesting ecological questions, 481 00:22:45,100 --> 00:22:47,700 such as the relationship between donkeys and fire. 482 00:22:49,980 --> 00:22:52,220 REPORTER: Burning through thousands of hectares, 483 00:22:52,220 --> 00:22:55,660 a bushfire shuts the Kimberley outback's main highway. 484 00:22:56,980 --> 00:23:00,820 ANTHONY: Fire is an extraordinary problem in the Kimberley. 485 00:23:01,980 --> 00:23:05,380 Everybody agrees, we have to prevent wildfire. 486 00:23:05,380 --> 00:23:10,660 Yeah, so, then this is this year's prime dust bath. 487 00:23:10,660 --> 00:23:14,420 One of the interesting things that donkeys do is dig dust baths. 488 00:23:14,420 --> 00:23:20,060 They'll rub around in the soil until it becomes powdery and soft. 489 00:23:20,060 --> 00:23:24,940 These dust baths are a good thing if you don't like fire. 490 00:23:24,940 --> 00:23:27,980 Once it rains, those depressions fill up with water. 491 00:23:27,980 --> 00:23:28,220 Once it rains, those depressions Vegetation grows on the edge of it, 492 00:23:28,220 --> 00:23:30,740 Vegetation grows on the edge of it, 493 00:23:30,740 --> 00:23:33,420 the soil becomes wetter 494 00:23:33,420 --> 00:23:39,300 and the fire becomes less likely to spread through the environment. 495 00:23:39,300 --> 00:23:39,540 and the fire becomes less likely to I'll use those later in the year. 496 00:23:39,540 --> 00:23:40,420 I'll use those later in the year. 497 00:23:40,420 --> 00:23:40,660 If there's a fire, I can back-burn I'll use those later in the year. 498 00:23:40,660 --> 00:23:44,500 If there's a fire, I can back-burn off one of these pads. 499 00:23:44,500 --> 00:23:44,740 If there's a fire, I can back-burn You can see... 500 00:23:44,740 --> 00:23:45,580 You can see... 501 00:23:45,580 --> 00:23:49,420 Donkeys can cut down fire risk in ways that cows cannot 502 00:23:49,420 --> 00:23:53,260 because they can eat dry, senescent vegetation, 503 00:23:53,260 --> 00:23:57,260 the most flammable vegetation, and they can go up into the hills 504 00:23:57,260 --> 00:23:57,500 the most flammable vegetation, where you really can't control fire. 505 00:23:57,500 --> 00:23:59,260 where you really can't control fire. 506 00:24:00,540 --> 00:24:05,780 So, in the hills, in places as rocky and steep as the Kimberley, 507 00:24:05,780 --> 00:24:06,020 So, in the hills, in places as rocky it's either fire or donkeys. 508 00:24:06,020 --> 00:24:07,460 it's either fire or donkeys. 509 00:24:10,860 --> 00:24:15,740 In 2021, we were given an infringement notice 510 00:24:15,740 --> 00:24:18,460 and a pest control notice, which we've challenged 511 00:24:18,460 --> 00:24:18,700 and a pest control notice, and are still challenging. 512 00:24:18,700 --> 00:24:20,740 and are still challenging. 513 00:24:20,740 --> 00:24:24,780 BOBBY: And, so, we asked for the pest control notice to be reviewed 514 00:24:24,780 --> 00:24:27,020 under the State Administrative Tribunal, 515 00:24:27,020 --> 00:24:31,900 and it appears at this point in time, there will be a hearing 516 00:24:31,900 --> 00:24:32,140 and it appears at this point scheduled for later in the year. 517 00:24:32,140 --> 00:24:33,620 scheduled for later in the year. 518 00:24:35,780 --> 00:24:39,820 JAMES: One thing I do believe that Chris deserves is an ear, 519 00:24:39,820 --> 00:24:40,100 you know, and great constructive conversations, JAMES: One thing I do believe that Chris deserves is an ear, 520 00:24:40,100 --> 00:24:42,500 you know, and great constructive conversations, 521 00:24:42,500 --> 00:24:46,620 because looking after country is everyone's responsibility. 522 00:24:48,300 --> 00:24:50,660 I don't want to go to jail, but I don't... 523 00:24:50,660 --> 00:24:52,980 ..I want to be able to look my grandchildren in the eye and say, 524 00:24:52,980 --> 00:24:57,260 "Listen, I knew what was going on, I did my best to communicate that." 525 00:24:57,260 --> 00:24:59,500 I'll go visit him in jail if they want to lock him up, 526 00:24:59,500 --> 00:25:02,220 and if I need to go, as well, as being one of the directors, 527 00:25:02,220 --> 00:25:02,460 and if I need to go, as well, we'll see. 528 00:25:02,460 --> 00:25:03,940 we'll see. 529 00:25:06,220 --> 00:25:09,540 JACQUIE: This is another example where I would have given up 530 00:25:09,540 --> 00:25:09,780 JACQUIE: This is another example years and years ago. 531 00:25:09,780 --> 00:25:11,580 years and years ago. 532 00:25:11,580 --> 00:25:14,460 I don't know if Chris actually knows how to give up, 533 00:25:14,460 --> 00:25:14,700 I don't know if Chris actually knows but, you know, it's up to him. 534 00:25:14,700 --> 00:25:16,700 but, you know, it's up to him. 535 00:25:16,700 --> 00:25:20,540 It's got to sit right for him, and I will just support him. 536 00:25:23,980 --> 00:25:26,220 KRISTINA: Hello. JACQUIE: How are you? 537 00:25:26,220 --> 00:25:27,220 Hello, Kristina. 538 00:25:27,220 --> 00:25:30,260 Um, so, today was the deadline. 539 00:25:30,260 --> 00:25:33,340 We sent in all the witness statements, so that's happening, 540 00:25:33,340 --> 00:25:34,980 that process is continuing, 541 00:25:34,980 --> 00:25:37,060 and we have faith that'll do its thing. 542 00:25:37,060 --> 00:25:39,820 Are you feeling a little bit less stressed now, Dad? 543 00:25:39,820 --> 00:25:42,660 You know, we've got science...I believe we've got science on our side 544 00:25:42,660 --> 00:25:44,580 and let the science prevail. 545 00:25:44,580 --> 00:25:49,100 It's had a lot of impact on Dad. He had health issues last year. 546 00:25:49,100 --> 00:25:51,340 That would have definitely been related to stress. 547 00:25:52,780 --> 00:25:56,420 CHRIS: Well, it's totally derailed my whole succession plan. 548 00:25:56,420 --> 00:25:59,500 Like, I'd hoped to be retired a long time by now, 549 00:25:59,500 --> 00:26:03,380 but, like, I'm ready to step back the moment someone steps up. 550 00:26:03,380 --> 00:26:06,980 If any of the children come back to live here, that would be great. 551 00:26:06,980 --> 00:26:09,500 I can't see it happening within the next five years. 552 00:26:11,660 --> 00:26:13,460 If you just penalise innovation, 553 00:26:13,460 --> 00:26:16,580 well, we're not going to expect young people to step up to the plate. 554 00:26:18,740 --> 00:26:21,980 BOBBY: I do want to see Kachana, if possible, stay in the family. 555 00:26:21,980 --> 00:26:22,220 BOBBY: I do want to see Kachana, Thumbs up? 556 00:26:22,220 --> 00:26:23,940 Thumbs up? 557 00:26:23,940 --> 00:26:24,180 With, you know, either myself Thumbs up? 558 00:26:24,180 --> 00:26:27,500 With, you know, either myself or a combination of us running it 559 00:26:27,500 --> 00:26:29,100 and managing it and making that happen. 560 00:26:31,740 --> 00:26:36,260 But I'm definitely hesitant to keep investing more money and time 561 00:26:36,260 --> 00:26:37,980 until we have a clear way forward. 562 00:26:41,580 --> 00:26:46,140 We're hoping that once we get a positive result with the donkeys, 563 00:26:46,140 --> 00:26:49,260 we can start focusing on our succession planning 564 00:26:49,260 --> 00:26:49,500 we can start focusing on a bit more as a family. 565 00:26:49,500 --> 00:26:50,900 a bit more as a family. 566 00:26:53,820 --> 00:26:58,100 It would be disappointing to see the land go back to what it was. 567 00:27:00,260 --> 00:27:02,500 REPORTER: As a family, you're going without a lot of the day-to-day 568 00:27:02,500 --> 00:27:05,980 conveniences which most people come to take for granted. 569 00:27:05,980 --> 00:27:06,780 What has that done for you 570 00:27:06,780 --> 00:27:08,940 and what do you think it's doing for your kids? 571 00:27:08,940 --> 00:27:12,380 JACQUIE: I actually think it's very good for the children 572 00:27:12,380 --> 00:27:12,620 JACQUIE: I actually think and also for us. 573 00:27:12,620 --> 00:27:14,380 and also for us. 574 00:27:14,380 --> 00:27:16,220 You learn to communicate 575 00:27:16,220 --> 00:27:16,460 because you can't run away You learn to communicate 576 00:27:16,460 --> 00:27:18,900 because you can't run away from each other. 577 00:27:18,900 --> 00:27:22,220 You just have to, you know, sort your problems out. 578 00:27:23,940 --> 00:27:28,260 I think the love story is stronger, much stronger. 579 00:27:28,260 --> 00:27:30,140 So, you're going to retire with me out here, aren't you? 580 00:27:30,140 --> 00:27:30,380 So, you're going to retire with me I will. I will support you. 581 00:27:30,380 --> 00:27:32,620 I will. I will support you. 582 00:27:32,620 --> 00:27:35,860 You've got to say I do. (BOTH LAUGH) 583 00:27:35,860 --> 00:27:39,420 JACQUIE: I learned to love Chris as Chris, 584 00:27:39,420 --> 00:27:39,660 JACQUIE: I learned to and that's nice. 585 00:27:39,660 --> 00:27:40,700 and that's nice. 586 00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:40,940 That is much better than just, and that's nice. 587 00:27:40,940 --> 00:27:44,780 That is much better than just, you know, falling in love. 588 00:27:44,780 --> 00:27:47,860 It's been tested a bit, hasn't it? It has been tested a lot. 589 00:27:47,860 --> 00:27:51,300 I think I might have fallen out of love a few times, 590 00:27:51,300 --> 00:27:51,540 I think I might have but I have...I certainly love you 591 00:27:51,540 --> 00:27:53,540 but I have...I certainly love you 592 00:27:53,540 --> 00:27:56,980 much more now than then, I would say. 593 00:27:56,980 --> 00:27:58,540 And it's...yeah, it's a strong love. 594 00:27:58,540 --> 00:28:00,460 Likewise. So, it's good. 595 00:28:00,460 --> 00:28:03,460 It's been a success against the odds. 596 00:28:19,020 --> 00:28:22,060 CHILD: I don't want to get lost. 597 00:28:22,060 --> 00:28:23,260 BOBBY: Get lost?! Oh! 598 00:28:24,420 --> 00:28:25,660 I don't know where that came from. 599 00:28:25,660 --> 00:28:29,180 I'm swimming with my clothes on, Mummy. 600 00:28:29,180 --> 00:28:31,940 With your clothes on? Yeah! 601 00:28:33,100 --> 00:28:34,460 Whoo! 602 00:28:34,460 --> 00:28:38,180 (LAUGHTER) 603 00:28:52,700 --> 00:28:53,740 Dad! 604 00:28:55,300 --> 00:28:56,860 Hey! 605 00:28:56,860 --> 00:28:58,460 That is funny. 606 00:28:59,420 --> 00:29:01,660 Perfect. Nice and cold? 607 00:29:01,660 --> 00:29:03,900 MAN: What a shot! How cold is it? Cold. 608 00:29:05,020 --> 00:29:07,020 Captions by Red Bee Media 609 00:29:07,020 --> 00:29:09,220 Copyright Australian Broadcasting Corporation