1 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:08,160 Vicky McClure is one of Britain's most popular TV and film actors. 2 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:09,600 Oh, my God! 3 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:13,280 She first found fame in 2006, 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,080 in the award-winning film This Is England. 5 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:22,880 And millions watched her as Detective Inspector Kate Fleming, 6 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:27,560 tracking down corrupt coppers in the hit TV drama Line Of Duty. 7 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:30,320 GUNSHOT 8 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:32,120 LAUGHTER 9 00:00:32,160 --> 00:00:35,280 I went to a place called The TV Workshop in Nottingham. 10 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,640 I joined when I was 11, and that's where I studied acting. 11 00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:42,120 I mean, it's formed who I am as a person, 12 00:00:42,160 --> 00:00:44,280 but it's formed who I am as an actor, for sure. 13 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:45,360 ALARM BLARING 14 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,280 We need an ambulance! Armed police, get back! 15 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:49,840 For all the action-packed shows that I do, 16 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:54,040 and the fact that I might seem hard as nails in certain things, 17 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,600 I probably couldn't be further from that. 18 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:01,200 Nottingham born and bred, Vicky received an MBE for her charity work 19 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,120 with the city's Dementia Choir. 20 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,920 I would love to introduce you to Our Dementia Choir! 21 00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:10,880 She was inspired by her grandmother Iris' struggle with the condition. 22 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,000 I am a homebody. 23 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,280 I like to feel secure, and... 24 00:01:21,320 --> 00:01:24,800 ..I like to be...sort of feel in a safe environment - 25 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:26,600 and that, to me, is home. 26 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,320 Vicky still lives in Nottingham with her husband Jonny, 27 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,000 just a few minutes from her parents, Carol and Mick, 28 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:39,480 and the extended family. 29 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,920 When my dad found out that I was having a tram named after me, 30 00:01:43,960 --> 00:01:45,240 he said, "Oh, great, 31 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,760 "so all my mates will say that 'I've ridden Vicky McClure'." 32 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:51,400 It's a great joke. 33 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:52,920 SHE LAUGHS 34 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,240 We're very much a working-class, hard-working family. 35 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,240 This is The Meadows. This is where my dad grew up, and... 36 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,440 ..my nonna and my grandad. 37 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,040 My grandad once said it was "rough, but enough". 38 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,600 And I kind of love that quote, because that kind of sums it up. 39 00:02:11,640 --> 00:02:14,040 Hiya. Hiya. 40 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:15,280 Aww. Hi, guys. 41 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:17,680 I know that Nonna - 42 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:19,200 Jean - my dad's mum... 43 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:22,600 ..she was abandoned as a child. 44 00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:25,200 She was then taken in by... 45 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:26,960 ..some awful people... 46 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,080 ..that treated her very badly. 47 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,520 It's a shame because she only died in December... 48 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:36,240 ..and she's in my thoughts a lot. 49 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:40,320 And even, like, the...the programme from her funeral 50 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,560 is on my dressing table, and I can't move it yet. 51 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:51,000 If she was here now, she'd be giggling about something. 52 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,080 She was, you know, a terrible burper, as well. 53 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,760 And I'm sure I've inherited that! 54 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:58,400 I won't give you an example. 55 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,480 But, you know, she was... "URRRR!" You're like, "Oh, God!" 56 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,080 SHE LAUGHS 57 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:09,160 But we never really got to the bottom of why my nonna 58 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,400 was abandoned as a child. 59 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:13,720 You know, what was the story behind it? 60 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:22,640 My mum's side is where there's a lot more holes. 61 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,120 I know that my great-grandad - 62 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,840 I think his name was Harry - fought in the Second World War. 63 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,760 He was a prisoner of war in the Japanese war camps, 64 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,040 and I believe he died out there, 65 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,520 and he's still - and is buried out there, as far as I know. 66 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:44,560 I don't like the unknown. 67 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,080 That's my problem. 68 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,200 Even with this show, I'm like, 69 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,200 "Oh, why? What have I done? Is it worth it?" 70 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:52,960 SHE LAUGHS 71 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,160 Is it worth the anxiety of not knowing whatever's next? 72 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,440 Vicky wants to find out more about her grandmother on her dad's side - 73 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,120 known to her as Nonna Jean - 74 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:45,240 and unravel the mystery of why she was given up by her birth family, 75 00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:48,280 so she's come to the outskirts of Nottingham 76 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,920 to visit her dad's sister, Auntie Pam - 77 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:55,240 Nonna Jean's oldest child - who's been researching the family history. 78 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,600 I'd love to find out if there's anything else that she knows 79 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:02,520 about my nonna's early years. 80 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,200 We've heard bits and bobs, but it'd be nice to find out more. 81 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:13,960 Hello! Hello! 82 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:15,800 Hi, sweetheart. 83 00:05:15,840 --> 00:05:18,680 Lovely to see you. Yeah, and you. 84 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:20,880 Always the greatest cuddles. 85 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,120 Aww! Follow me. 86 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:25,760 Going in here. 87 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:27,840 I've got a photo to show you. 88 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,200 Oh, really? What, that I've not seen? Yeah. Ooh! 89 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,560 Let's see what we've got in here. 90 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,360 Every new baby made her glow. Oh! 91 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,080 VICKY CHUCKLES 92 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,000 I know that's me, because I was an ugly baby. 93 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:44,680 THEY LAUGH 94 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,160 There's another one here. Same expression. 95 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,760 Aww! Look at that - the three of us last year. 96 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:53,000 {\an8}Yeah, that's cute. 97 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,080 {\an8}That's a gorgeous photo. 98 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,840 {\an8}She was so happy all the time. 99 00:05:57,880 --> 00:05:59,320 {\an8}Even to the end. 100 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,720 {\an8}Yeah, because that was about seven weeks before she died. 101 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:06,080 I don't know anyone else on the planet quite as jolly as her. 102 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,800 So into family, so all about love, so happy. Yeah. 103 00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:11,640 But she had such a bad start. 104 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:13,360 She did. So in my head, it's... 105 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,640 Yeah. ..it was her trying to break that chain. 106 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:20,800 Yeah. She made a vow - she said, "I suffered, my children never will." 107 00:06:20,840 --> 00:06:23,920 And she said, "I didn't know what love was as a child, 108 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,440 "so I just wanted to give my babies all the love I never had." 109 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,880 Oh, my gosh. I know! Going to make me cry. Bless her. I know, I know. 110 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:32,360 Now, then. 111 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,080 Now, that's Mum. Now it says here, look - "Jean, 1941." 112 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:41,000 So she'd have been 15, going on 16. Wow! 113 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,480 What do we know of, like, the time scale? 114 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,520 She was given up as a baby. 115 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,040 Yeah. And then she was fostered... 116 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,040 Yeah. ..by a couple... 117 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:52,920 ..who were... 118 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:54,240 They were... Horrible. 119 00:06:54,280 --> 00:06:57,080 Her foster mother in particular was very cruel. 120 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,320 She was sent down the cellar for a bedroom, 121 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,320 and she had to barricade herself in, ram a chair under the handle 122 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,680 to stop her foster mum coming in and beating her. 123 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:07,320 Oh, God! 124 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:12,400 And according to Mum, her foster mother was an alcoholic 125 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,360 and a sex worker. 126 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,240 And it was shocking. 127 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:22,040 And with her foster mum being involved in the sex trade... 128 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:26,080 Yeah. ..did she try and involve Nonna in that? 129 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,320 She did once - Mum came home, 130 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,920 and there was a man that her mum wanted to introduce her to. 131 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,880 Mum says, "I don't know where I got the strength from 132 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,200 "to say no and escape." 133 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,680 Horrendous. Yeah. Horrendous, horrendous. 134 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,240 Let me show you another photo. 135 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:46,240 WHISPERS:Oh, wow! 136 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,720 You can see she's dirty... She's dirty, she's scruffy, isn't she? 137 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,320 A "scruffy bogger", as she'd say. Yeah, a little scruffy bogger. 138 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:56,680 She was. 139 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:01,560 Pauline? She was called Pauline? 140 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,440 Her foster parents named her Pauline. 141 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:05,560 VICKY GASPS 142 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,840 She thought she was Pauline Compton 143 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,040 right up until her middle teens. 144 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:11,720 No way! Yeah. 145 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,520 When she was about 14, she told me this story, 146 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,280 and they were at this house, 147 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,640 and she overheard the girls in another room saying, 148 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:21,560 "I feel sorry for our Pauline - 149 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,200 "she don't know it's not her real mum and dad." 150 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:25,640 VICKY GASPS 151 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:27,960 And that was a turning point. 152 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,120 Wow! She told me she said to her foster mum, 153 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,840 "You can't hit me any more - you're not my real mum." 154 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:35,000 VICKY GASPS 155 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,520 Here's a copy of her birth certificate. Mm. 156 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,800 That's when she realised her name was Jean. 157 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:45,800 1925. Mm. 158 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,080 The birth - Great Grimsby. 159 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:50,440 OK. 160 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:51,800 Who's that? 161 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:55,480 BOTH:Ruby Winifred Compton. Formerly Curtis. Right. 162 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,560 Mother. Yeah. Name, surname. 163 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,440 Father - Thomas Compton. Mm. 164 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,520 And so that's who gave her up. Yeah. 165 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,960 Occupation of father - what's that say? 166 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:09,520 Steward on a steamship. 167 00:09:09,560 --> 00:09:12,440 OK! And Grimsby - see, that would fit, wouldn't it? Yes. 168 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,080 Yeah. Yes, because she was born in Grimsby, wasn't she? Mm. 169 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,360 And maybe that is where I'm heading next, to... 170 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,680 ..hopefully find more out. 171 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,920 The birth certificate has revealed the identity 172 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,280 of Vicky's great-grandparents - Ruby and Thomas Compton. 173 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,760 But why her nonna Jean was given up as a baby by Ruby and Thomas 174 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:37,360 is still a mystery. 175 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:46,480 If I look at my nonna 176 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,680 and her personality and her strength 177 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:51,760 after going through what she went through, 178 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,400 and pulling her life around the way she did, 179 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,160 she's got to have good people in there somewhere. 180 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,680 I'm kind of hoping they had good reason to not keep her. 181 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,880 It's all starting to become... real now. 182 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:08,800 I might actually find something out! 183 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:10,200 SHE LAUGHS 184 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,600 Vicky's come to the port town of Grimsby in Lincolnshire, 185 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:23,320 where she knows her nonna Jean was born in December 1925 186 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:25,640 to Ruby and Thomas Compton - 187 00:10:25,680 --> 00:10:27,600 Vicky's great-grandparents. 188 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,400 To find out where they were living in the 1920s, 189 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,200 she's starting with the census records. 190 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:39,560 OK. SHE CLEARS HER THROAT 191 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,240 I'm going to put my great-grandma's name, 192 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,360 Ruby... 193 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,240 ..Compton, into the 1921 census. 194 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,800 OK, so they're living at 9 Pollitt Street, 195 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:56,760 Great Grimsby. 196 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,880 Ruby Winifred Compton, daughter. 197 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:08,400 George... 198 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:09,800 That's her dad. 199 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:13,000 And her mum, Emma. 200 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:19,920 So George and Emma are my two-times-great-grandparents. 201 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,160 And she had a brother called Ernest. 202 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:30,560 Right, so, OK, this is starting to make sense. 203 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,120 So, Ruby's married, but living at home with her mum and dad, 204 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,320 with her brother, and with her three children. 205 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,040 Esme was five, 206 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,720 Stanley was three, and then Pearl was one. 207 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:49,560 And my nonna was born in 1925... 208 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,880 ..so she wasn't around yet. 209 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,480 These are the siblings she never met. 210 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,040 I don't know where her husband, Thomas, is. 211 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:08,720 I haven't got a clue. 212 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,600 SHE SIGHS SHARPLY This is stressing me out! 213 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:14,400 SHE CHUCKLES 214 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:16,440 I've only just begun! 215 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,360 Erm...right. 216 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,720 Vicky now knows that her great-grandparents, 217 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:27,600 Ruby and Thomas Compton, 218 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:31,080 had three other children before her nonna Jean was born - 219 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,600 Esme, Stanley and Pearl. 220 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,360 The census also reveals that Ruby and the children 221 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,400 were living with her parents in Pollitt Street, 222 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,960 but there's no sign of her husband, Thomas. 223 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,120 To find out more about Thomas' whereabouts, 224 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:56,080 Vicky is meeting local historian Emma Lingard. 225 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,480 So we're in the heart of the old port - 226 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,440 the places that Ruby would have known. Right. 227 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,800 And the family lived just over there, 228 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,560 at the entrance to the docks. And I have this. 229 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:13,480 OK, yeah, right. 230 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:15,320 So this is Pollitt Street. 231 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,480 This picture was taken in 1971, 232 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,120 just before these buildings were demolished. 233 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,800 So this is within the docks? 234 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:25,760 It's just on the entrance... Right. 235 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:27,880 ..the other side of the railway line. 236 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,440 But you are in a busy part of the port. 237 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:34,160 You've got the busiest railway crossing - it's said - 238 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,000 in the country next to you, 239 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,800 with steam locomotives pulling wagons that are miles long, 240 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:41,520 full of fish. 241 00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:43,080 I noticed on the census 242 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,560 that they had quite a few people in the house. 243 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,880 Most people are lodging, as well, because they can't afford 244 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,800 to buy their own house, so they're taking rooms on 245 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:53,640 in buildings like this. 246 00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:57,480 And the fact that Ruby was lodging with her parents 247 00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:59,640 and her young family at one point 248 00:13:59,680 --> 00:14:03,040 is an idea of what financial hardships the family 249 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,240 might have gone through, as well. Right, OK. 250 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,280 But Thomas is not on the census. 251 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,720 And I know that Thomas was a steward on a steamship. 252 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:14,680 What would he have been doing? 253 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:19,240 So, as a steward, you are literally like a domestic servant. 254 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:23,000 If you're on a cargo vessel, you're seeing to the needs of the crew. 255 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,640 Right. So, that's making sure that they're fed and watered, 256 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:30,400 that you've got the provisions for the journey you're going on, 257 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,800 because you're talking about months out at sea. 258 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,120 So, this is Thomas's certificate of discharge. 259 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,640 So, it lists all the vessels 260 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,560 that he's sailed on since 1919. 261 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,840 OK. 262 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,920 Going back to your 1921 census... 263 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,200 ..can you see those dates? OK. 264 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,640 So... Can you see how long he's away at sea? 265 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,800 Oh, he's away for a good year there. 266 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:02,560 So, the fact that he is away, though, as hard as it is for Ruby 267 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:07,640 bringing up a young family... Yeah. ..he is providing for them. 268 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:09,920 They've got three young children at this point, 269 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,640 and then my nonna is born four years later. 270 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:17,440 So, in December, 1925, my nonna was born. 271 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,760 City of Cork. That's the name of the vessel. 272 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,240 You see the date he sailed? 273 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:26,640 30th of Jan, 1925. 274 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,360 Vicky is checking the Lloyd's shipping lists, 275 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,040 which log the movements of all British ships, 276 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,800 to find out exactly where Thomas sailed to in 1925. 277 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,800 {\an8}The City of Cork, that's the name of the vessel. Yeah. 278 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,560 April 3rd. Halifax. 279 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,280 Halifax, St Pierre. 280 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,360 Where's that? Canada. 281 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,600 Canada? 282 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:54,800 Wow. 283 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:00,400 {\an8}So, in December, 1925, my nonna was born. 284 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:04,560 {\an8}He was back July, 1925. 285 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,960 OK, so he was out there for a good five, six months. 286 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,240 So, Jean was conceived in the April. 287 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,600 So, he can't be the father of my nonna. 288 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,080 No. What? OK, wow. 289 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,720 It's took me a bit of time, my maths isn't great, but... 290 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:23,560 Right. 291 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:30,600 This shows you that Thomas is not your great-grandfather. No. 292 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:34,560 And it's neither your grandma's father. Father. 293 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,040 Oh, wow. Well, I'm glad I know, to be honest. 294 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,720 There is a distant relative who can help you with your 295 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:50,920 next part of this journey. 296 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,200 It's a gentleman called Nick, who is Pearl's son, 297 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:58,400 and of course, Pearl is the older half sister of Jean. 298 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:00,160 Oh, wow. 299 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:07,760 We've now discovered that Thomas was not my Nonna Jean's dad. 300 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:12,000 And when Thomas came back, knowing that it's not his child, 301 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,760 it might have been that realised he couldn't cope with bringing up 302 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:19,680 a child that wasn't his, and that the most reasonable thing to do 303 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:21,920 would be to... 304 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,880 ..give Nonna Jean away, which breaks my heart, because she's my nonna 305 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,800 and she didn't deserve that. 306 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:33,000 And it breaks my heart that she wasn't given to good people. 307 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:40,120 But how much can you check people out in the 1920s compared to now? 308 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,040 I'm going to see Nick. 309 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,840 I'm hoping to find out what kind of people they were. 310 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:52,880 I'm hoping he can tell me how and why my nonna was given away. 311 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,400 Was it that Ruby had an affair? 312 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,160 And did Thomas and Ruby split up? 313 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:02,840 Vicky has come to meet Nick... 314 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:04,440 Hi, Nick. It's Vicky. 315 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,600 Oh, hi. Come on up. 316 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,960 {\an8}..the son of her grandma Jean's older half sister, Pearl... 317 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,800 {\an8}..to see what he knows about why Jean was given up... 318 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,960 ..and to find out the truth about her great-grandma Ruby's 319 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:22,920 marriage to Thomas. 320 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,960 That's my grandma, your great-grandma. 321 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,240 Wow. 322 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,160 Ruby Winifred Compton. 323 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,400 This is a year before she gets married. 324 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,040 She's 17 there. Yeah. 325 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:42,120 The people that she was closest to used to call her Win or Winnie. 326 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:43,720 Beautiful eyes. 327 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:46,760 That's my mum. 328 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:47,960 Oh... 329 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:49,600 That's Pearl. 330 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,120 I've always wondered where my eyebrows came from, 331 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,200 cos I've always had troubling eyebrows. 332 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,160 Yeah, same here, I'm afraid. 333 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,000 And now I know, yeah. 334 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,640 I've got a photo that I can show you, as well, of my nonna. 335 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:06,560 Oh, please. 336 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,280 So, this is my Nonna Jean. 337 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,120 Oh, my word. 338 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,160 That's quite uncanny, isn't it? I am gobsmacked. 339 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:19,880 Look at those eyes. I know. 340 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:22,440 The Three Graces. 341 00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:31,880 I'm really curious to know if Win ever disclosed having Jean. 342 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:36,880 My mum, Pearl, was very good at sharing all sorts of information 343 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:41,400 with me, and she never said a word of it. 344 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,080 Wow. 345 00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:46,560 From that, I would guess that she didn't know. 346 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,880 Thomas wasn't her father. Mm-hm. 347 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,680 Do you have any idea who my nonna's father could have been? 348 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,760 I have no idea who Jean's father might have been. 349 00:19:57,800 --> 00:19:59,000 No. 350 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,840 And is now a good time to talk about Thomas? 351 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,400 I've got tonnes of Thomas's letters to Ruby. 352 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,240 But the ones that I've picked out for you to look at 353 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,000 are the ones that really tell the story. 354 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:16,080 "Unless I am fortunate enough to get a job ashore for a time, 355 00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:19,080 "I was thinking of trying for a job on the mail boats 356 00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:22,680 "carrying passengers. They reckon it's a decent job, dear. 357 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,520 "But, of course, it means being away from you, dear, 358 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:27,600 "and I want to be with you all the time." 359 00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:31,040 And he's away. Yes. 360 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,200 And they're separated, they're away for such a long time. 361 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:38,680 So, the central paragraph from this April 22nd... 362 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,360 1925. 363 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,400 So, the year is... Yeah. 364 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,920 The year is important. The year IS important. 365 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,440 That's the year my nonna was born. 366 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,080 "I do hope you and the kiddies continue well, dear. 367 00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:53,040 "I hope, more than that, you are true and faithful to me 368 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,880 "and are longing for me as I am for you. 369 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,680 "I should be so happy, darling, if you could be sure 370 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,280 "that you lived just for me." 371 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:02,920 VICKY GASPS 372 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:06,600 Oh, no. 373 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:08,200 Something is up. 374 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,400 So, she's been with someone else, and he knows. 375 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,600 It's a small paragraph and... 376 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,200 It is, but it says a lot. It does. 377 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:17,840 OK. 378 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,840 "I shall be very careful not to make another mistake. 379 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:28,720 "For I think three will be as many as we can manage. 380 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,240 "Don't you?" 381 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:35,600 So, now we have the three children, 382 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,800 and he's warning... 383 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:41,200 .."We've got enough children, and don't mess this up." 384 00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:45,680 Basically, we can't afford a fourth. 385 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,800 And we know who the fourth is. Yeah. 386 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,760 Thomas was quite clear he didn't want a fourth child. 387 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,840 Somebody could have offered good money, which would have 388 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:03,800 benefited them as a family. Mm-hm. 389 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,320 They didn't have the space. 390 00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:08,920 You know, it wasn't his child. 391 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,480 All those kind of things, it made sense. 392 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,520 And also, people can say, "She's going into a loving family 393 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,320 "and we're good people. We'll take her." 394 00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:21,160 These days, the vetting for a family adoption... Exactly. 395 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,000 There's no vetting back then. No. No. 396 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,240 This is something very informal, I think, which... Yeah. 397 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,720 I don't think we have much in the way of evidence 398 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:30,760 as to how this has come about. No. 399 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,120 When Vicky's Grandma Jean was given up in 1925, 400 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,600 adoption in the UK wasn't regulated. 401 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:45,800 Babies could be sold and background checks were rarely done. 402 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,560 The following year, the Adoption of Children Act was passed - 403 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,000 but children were still barely protected by the law. 404 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,600 You can only hope whenever anybody gives up a child 405 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:02,200 that they are doing the best for that child. 406 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:07,920 After you saying that, it does make me think more that... 407 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:12,920 ..Winnie assumed she was putting Jean into good hands. 408 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,440 Luckily, she did have a great life when she was out of that. 409 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,400 She didn't show any signs of trouble. 410 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,320 She didn't pass it down. 411 00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:27,520 Well, I'm so glad to hear that. 412 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,240 And all I kept thinking is, she was from a loving family. 413 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:33,720 She was. 414 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:35,640 They were a very close family. Yeah. 415 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,440 That's their wedding photo. 416 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,240 OK. 417 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,200 Ruby and Tom, in 1917. 418 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,360 Oh, he's a handsome chap. 419 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,720 And there's Win in her best dress, 420 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,400 but with the kind of bridal overcoat of lace over the top. 421 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,520 Yeah, it's lovely. 422 00:23:55,560 --> 00:24:00,280 Winnie was a loving person, she was the life and soul of the family. 423 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,280 Tom was, for me, this fairly upright gentleman - 424 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,480 except when he was feeling jokey. 425 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,240 His favourite practical joke that I used to remember was, 426 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:10,840 I would go and kiss him goodnight, 427 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,720 and he would push his false teeth out from his mouth. 428 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,240 It was kind of gross, but it was also hilariously funny. Yeah. 429 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,040 You kind of wait for it. Yeah. 430 00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:21,480 Their last photo, maybe. Aw! 431 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,840 They stayed together until the end of their lives. 432 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,040 There are Tom and Winnie. 433 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,040 I'm kind of pleased, I'm not going to lie. 434 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,880 I think that's good, because they... they've been through a lot. 435 00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:41,800 It sounds to me like my great-grandma Winnie 436 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,800 made some choices along the way that created bumps in the road 437 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,200 for their marriage and for their relationship, 438 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,120 but they stuck together, and I think that's really admirable. 439 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,640 And, you know, my nonna and grandad were together for 74 years. 440 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,600 So, you know, long standing marriages are a thing in our family, 441 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,480 and that's something to be proud of. 442 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,080 I feel like there's been a really beautiful connection 443 00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:08,040 to my Nonna Jean, you know, who was so loved. 444 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,360 I'm sure she'd be really pleased that we did this. 445 00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:19,480 {\an8}And that's going to leave me and my family with a bit of peace, I think. 446 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:35,360 Vicky is back in Nottingham and on her way to her childhood home. 447 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,520 She wants to explore her mum Carol's family and the rumour that 448 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,560 her grandma, known to Vicky as Nonna Iris, was the daughter of 449 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,960 a prisoner of war who died in Japan during World War II. 450 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:49,720 Hi, Dad. Hi. 451 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,200 THEY LAUGH 452 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:52,840 Yeah, it's been going good. 453 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,400 It's been quite an anxious thing to do, because you don't know 454 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,120 what anyone's going to tell you. 455 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:58,920 Interesting. Yeah. 456 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,000 So, do you remember this? 457 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,760 Yes, I do remember this. I remember nonna very well. 458 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,280 She was a bit of a funny bugger, wasn't she? 459 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:08,840 A funny bugger! 460 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,640 Honestly, I drove her mad, didn't I? 461 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,160 Yeah, you did. 462 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:17,880 Yeah, you was one of those snotty nosed children that she didn't like. 463 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:21,880 Then we've got this one here. 464 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,240 Oh, this is... I've never seen that. 465 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:25,600 Yeah. 466 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,760 That's the youngest photo that I've got of my mum, 467 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,560 and she's probably about eight. 468 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,080 She's got your smile. 469 00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:34,680 I'm glad she's smiling. 470 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,760 But she'll have lost her dad by this point. Yep. 471 00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:43,240 When she had dementia, and I went and got her medical records, 472 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,920 and going down, I found that she had suffered with depression. 473 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:49,360 Right. 474 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,240 But quite badly, from what I gathered. 475 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,880 What did you see that made you think it was bad? 476 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,280 Manic depressive. Oh, right. 477 00:26:58,360 --> 00:26:59,560 God bless her. 478 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:02,880 So, I've got another photo. 479 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,480 Do you want to see him? 480 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:05,680 Wow. 481 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,640 So, that's Harry Millership. It is, yeah. 482 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,600 Your grandad. Yeah. My great-grandad. 483 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,960 Don't know anything about him. 484 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:16,320 This one. 485 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,960 That's a great photo. 486 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,240 He died when my mum was young. 487 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:25,880 What I do have is this. 488 00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:30,440 So, that's his grave. 489 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,520 She always said, "We think he's in Japan." Right. 490 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,240 But I don't know that. 491 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:36,920 And she kept that on the side. 492 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,680 That was always around the house somewhere. 493 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,160 I've got a letter. 494 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,080 This is from Harry? Yeah. 495 00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:50,320 To Hetty. Hetty. 496 00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:53,440 My great-grandma. It is, yeah. 497 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,600 So, this letter is from Malaya. 498 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,680 Malaysia now. Right. 499 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,280 So, November 25th, 1941. 500 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,000 Yep. 501 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,080 "Just a few lines hoping they find you safe and in good health, 502 00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:07,880 "also the nips..." 503 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,080 And the nips, is that the kids? His children, yeah. Yeah. 504 00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:15,040 All them kisses. I know. 505 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,360 What was the running order of the kids again? 506 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,360 It was, Lillian would have been the oldest, then Barry, 507 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,040 Audrey, my mum, and Gladys. Right. 508 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:31,240 "So, by the time this lot's over, the nips won't know their pop." 509 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,880 I know. Very sad. 510 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,720 "I'm sorry I was so far away that I couldn't send you anything 511 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,960 "or be with you for Christmas. 512 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,200 "But one never knows, I might be home for the next one. 513 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,040 "Your ever loving hubby, Harry." 514 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,480 Yeah, it was quite sad, really, when you think about it, 515 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,520 that these five children never knew their dad. 516 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,160 Oh, what have we got here? Got a birth certificate. 517 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,360 This is Nonna's birth certificate? Yeah. 518 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:10,040 OK, so, she was born 13th of October, 1936, Featherstone. 519 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,800 Yorkshire. Oh, OK. 520 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,760 Dad was Harry Millership. 521 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,800 Occupation, colliery hewer. 522 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,800 So, that's what Harry did. 523 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:21,680 Must have been a miner. 524 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,880 Right, I think that should be the next step, then. 525 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:29,160 Figure out what he was doing and where his mine was. 526 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,120 All right, well, leave it with me. 527 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,400 The only thing Vicky had heard about her great-grandfather, 528 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,440 Harry Millership, was that he died as a prisoner of war. 529 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,520 She's now discovered that earlier in his life, 530 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:48,600 he was a coal miner from Yorkshire. 531 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,600 To find out more, Vicky's come to meet former miner Pete Wordsworth 532 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,160 at one of the last surviving Yorkshire pits. 533 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:57,640 I'm Peter. Welcome to Caphouse. 534 00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,600 Yeah, there we go. 535 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:02,360 Helmet. Yeah. 536 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,480 Does that feel OK? 537 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,160 Yeah, that feels good. 538 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,280 Well, let's go and have a look at some of the conditions 539 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,560 what your great-grandfather Harry worked in, OK? 540 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,240 Yeah, great. Come on. 541 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,760 Hello. Vicky, if you would like to get on the cage, please. 542 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,000 You'll get on with us. OK. 543 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:22,600 Hold on tight. Oh, really? 544 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,360 THEY LAUGH 545 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:25,880 How far down? There we go. 546 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,320 Right, guys. we're off down now, we're off down 140 metres. 547 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,520 Until I tell you you can get off. 548 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,640 I've just got to sort the gates out. 549 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,840 Right, guys, you can get off. Efficient. You first. 550 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:37,240 Yeah. Thank you. 551 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:42,920 OK, Vicky, just watch your step. 552 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,520 So, when you look at the environment now, this is more similar to when 553 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,640 your great-grandfather Harry were working in mines. 554 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,040 I'm going to show you this first document. 555 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:57,520 OK, 1921 census for 8 Bernie Street, 556 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,920 Normanton, Yorkshire. 557 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,520 Harry. 558 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,720 That would be my great-grandad. 559 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,600 These are my two times great-grandparents, 560 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,760 Charles and Sarah. 561 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,200 Then we've got Eva, their daughter. 562 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,640 She's 21. 563 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,080 Charles, 18. 564 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,920 Elsie Millership. Laura Millership. Amy Millership. 565 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,680 LAUGHING:Oh, my word, there was a few of them. 566 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,400 So, let's have a look at Harry. 567 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,160 14 years old. 568 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,480 Birthplace - Castleford, Yorkshire. 569 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,480 Is that far from here? No. Only 20 minutes. 570 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:35,840 OK. 571 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:40,040 School or personal occupation - colliers labourer. 572 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,200 Harry's father, Charles... 573 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,240 Was also a coal miner. So, he was also a coal miner. 574 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:49,120 So, when you look at Harry, 14 years and four months old, 575 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,040 working as a colliery labourer. 576 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:52,720 VICKY EXHALES 577 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,440 So, the law in those days prohibited kids coming out of school 578 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,760 before the age of 14. Right. 579 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,520 But when they got to 14, they could take them out of school. 580 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:02,920 Straight to work. 581 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,320 They said, "Right, we need you to start earning for t' family." 582 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,560 Yeah. Well, with that many children... 583 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:08,920 Absolutely. Yeah. 584 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,760 And what would Harry's job have been as colliers labourer? 585 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:13,360 So, a labourer can do anything. 586 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,280 He can be digging holes. Right. He can be transporting materials in. 587 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,400 They were working underground six, seven days a week. 588 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,080 I've got some photos to show you which show you what it were like 589 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,000 for your great-grandad Harry working in a coal mine. 590 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:27,760 Oh, my God. 591 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,120 They were digging as much coal as possible. 592 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,400 And the only thing they were doing was surviving. 593 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,200 To know that Harry was doing that... 594 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,720 ..it's so hard to comprehend. 595 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,440 Now I'm sort of delving into my mum's side, you know, 596 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,440 a very tough family. Hardy. Hardy bunch, yeah, for sure. 597 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,000 The sad part is, without choice. 598 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,760 Right, Vicky, follow me. 599 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,440 I mean, we're wearing helmets and, like, knee pads. 600 00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,440 They had none of this gear. No. This is crazy. 601 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,360 Have a look under here. 602 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,640 It's a bit tighter, isn't it? A bit tight. 603 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:10,800 I want to show you another document now, 604 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,280 and this document is from 1939. 605 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:16,640 OK... 606 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,640 So, here's Harry. Yeah. 607 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,120 32 in 1939. Yeah. 608 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,240 Second World War has just kicked off. 609 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,400 So, he's been working in the mines for, like, 18 years. 610 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:29,640 Wow. 611 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,040 And what's this, the mine's...? 612 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,200 That's the mine's timber drawer. 613 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,560 As the working coalface advanced deeper underground, 614 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:46,240 pit owners saved money by making the mine's timber drawers, 615 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,800 like Vicky's great-grandfather Harry, 616 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,960 re-use wooden props that supported the roof. 617 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,680 This prop is here for a purpose, it's holding the roof up. 618 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,120 When you take this prop out, that roof is going to collapse. 619 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,040 That sounds quite a dangerous job. 620 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,000 Many, many people lost their lives doing this kind of job. 621 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:05,560 Very perilous. 622 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,440 I really feel proud of my roots and the fact that, you know, 623 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:13,840 Harry and his family were real workers. 624 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,320 Working hard. BLEEPhard. 625 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,000 Do you know what I mean? Like... 626 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,760 It kind of...it's blowing my mind. 627 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,040 From what I know, he died in a Japanese war camp 628 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,080 as a prisoner of war. 629 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,760 And knowing that he left to go to fight in the Second World War 630 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:42,200 would have been probably not too long after he was doing this job. 631 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,640 Oh. "Tanks crossing". OK. 632 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,680 So, we are in military world. 633 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,600 To find out how her great-grandfather Harry ended up 634 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:15,600 as a prisoner of war, Vicky is on her way to Larkhill army base 635 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,680 to meet historian Dr Yasmin Khan. 636 00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:20,840 Lovely to meet you. Hello. Good to see you. 637 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,560 I've got something to show you here 638 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,800 which relates to your great-grandfather. 639 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,120 Territorial Army record of service paper. 640 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,360 So, he was requested to go, without choice. That's it. 641 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:32,760 He's been called up. Right. 642 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:34,400 He's in his early 30s. Yeah. 643 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,880 I think he must have known that the time was coming. 644 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,080 So, by 1940, he's in the army. 645 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,640 And this is exactly the area that he would have been training... 646 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:43,960 Oh, wow. Right. 647 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,160 There's something else I wanted to show you, 648 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,680 which is an extract from his military papers. 649 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:52,880 OK. 650 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:54,760 Absent without leave. 651 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,840 Rejoined from absence. 652 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,320 Ordered 28 days detention. Yeah. 653 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,040 And forfeits five days' pay. 654 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:03,560 What does that mean? 655 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:05,600 So, he went AWOL. Right. 656 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,080 He went absent without leave. Yeah. Only for five days. 657 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,080 So, you can see here the dates. 658 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:15,520 22nd of the 12th to 27th of the 12th, '40. 659 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,640 Oh, right, so it's Christmas. He's gone for Christmas. Yeah. 660 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,400 For Christmas. I get that. 661 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,040 We're all about Christmas in my family. 662 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,280 A lot of men did around that Christmas of 1940. 663 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,120 But looking back, when we see that, we know that that's the last time 664 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,680 he would have been with his family at Christmas-time. 665 00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:34,800 My God. 666 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:39,560 So, then he's moved to the 80th Anti-Tank Regiment. Oh, OK. 667 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,880 And these are the stores of the Royal Artillery Museum, 668 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,120 and inside there's one of the guns that he would have trained on 669 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:47,680 and used around here in Wiltshire. 670 00:36:47,720 --> 00:36:49,320 So, we can go in and have a look at it. 671 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,040 Brilliant. Let's go and take a look. 672 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,000 And I'll take you down this way. 673 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:57,400 Oh. 674 00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:58,880 Wow. 675 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,840 Guns going back to Victorian times. 676 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,400 This is what I really wanted to show you. 677 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,040 This one? This one. 678 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,200 And this would have been the sort of thing that your great-grandfather 679 00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:14,560 used, which was a 2-pounder, and it's an anti-tank gun. Huge. 680 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:17,720 Wow. 681 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:19,200 Can I? Yeah. 682 00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:20,440 VICKY LAUGHS 683 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:23,280 Oh, my God. 684 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,000 God, he's gone from being underground for 18 years 685 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:31,880 to sitting behind this. 686 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,480 So, this is something I wanted to show you, 687 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,000 which sheds a bit more light on his journey. 688 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,080 "From the memoirs of George K Topping, 689 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,120 "80th Anti-Tank Regiment RA." 690 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,480 So, this is George, who's a member of the same regiment. 691 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,640 "August, 1941. 692 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:53,760 "Then the blow fell. 693 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,720 "Here I was embarked upon a journey to God alone knew where, 694 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,520 "and in the midst of a war about to embark overseas. 695 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,600 "No doubt eventually coming face-to-face with the enemy 696 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,400 "on some far-off battlefront. 697 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,560 "How would I face up to an enemy coming at me with a rifle 698 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,320 "and fixed bayonet, or firing at me with a machinegun? 699 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,080 "I did not consider myself yet a soldier, 700 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,080 "with only three months of army discipline behind me. 701 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,120 "I was still a boy recruit, dressed in an army uniform." 702 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,080 Oh, God. 703 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,080 Oh, that's really emotional. 704 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,720 It just gives a sense... Gives a sense, yeah. 705 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,080 ..of what it would have been like 706 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,760 to be told you're going overseas. Yeah. 707 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,160 And he's given a tropical kit. 708 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,480 So, they knew if it was a tropical kit, they're going east. Yeah. 709 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,320 But they weren't told the destination, because there's so much 710 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,880 secrecy during the war. They're worried about U-boats in the waters. 711 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,920 They want to keep the troop movements quiet. Yeah, of course. 712 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:51,680 So, they're not told where they're going. 713 00:38:51,720 --> 00:38:54,640 You can't even imagine how anxious he must have felt. 714 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,160 And then, takes 70 days to get to their destination. 715 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,440 That's unbelievable. 70 days? 716 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,520 But eventually they stop in Singapore, 717 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,280 and that's where his final destination is. 718 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:10,360 And this is a really critical moment in the war. 719 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,440 Vicky's great-grandfather Harry and his regiment were sent to 720 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,480 Singapore to protect British imperial territory 721 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,840 from Japanese aggression. 722 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:32,200 But on December 8th, 1941, barely a month after their arrival, 723 00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:37,280 Japanese forces began a land, sea and air assault, 724 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,560 advancing rapidly to the island of Singapore, 725 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,800 where Harry and the Allied troops were trapped. 726 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,800 Churchill was really anxious and angry about this. 727 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,280 In fact, he said, there should be no thought of saving lives, 728 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,800 that they must fight to the bitter end. 729 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,400 And he said that the whole honour of the British Empire 730 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,280 and of the British Army was at stake. Right. 731 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,880 It's lads like your great-grandfather who are 732 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:05,720 really caught up in that. 733 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,400 And there's not much real thought about their lives. 734 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:12,200 After just one week, the Allies were forced to surrender Singapore 735 00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:15,000 on the 15th of February, 1942. 736 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,800 This was one of the greatest defeats that the British suffered 737 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:19,400 in World War II. 738 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,440 And then, the surrender. 739 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,120 It's an unbelievable photo. 740 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:32,960 I've never seen anything like it. 741 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,240 And knowing that is exactly what it would have been like for him. 742 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:44,360 Around 130,000 prisoners, including Vicky's great-grandfather Harry, 743 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,720 were taken by the Japanese during the campaign. 744 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,480 And I've got something else to show you here. 745 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,640 Prisoner of war Japanese Taiwan camp. 746 00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:59,760 So, he's in Taiwan. 747 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,760 That's where they've taken him from Singapore, 748 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,240 and that's where the Japanese war camp is. 749 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,120 Wow. 750 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,040 God, I can't wait to tell my mum. 751 00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,000 It's not a nice thing to have to tell her, 752 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,040 but it's answers, isn't it? 753 00:41:17,720 --> 00:41:21,600 PHONE LINE TRILLS 754 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,120 FROM PHONE:Hello. 755 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:24,520 Hello. 756 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,560 Hello. You all right? 757 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:28,160 Yes. Are you? 758 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:29,600 Yes. 759 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:33,720 I'm in Salisbury Plain at the minute. 760 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:35,440 Oh, right. 761 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:39,640 And I've been finding out some more things about Harry, your grandad. 762 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:41,440 And I know where I'm heading. 763 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,280 Where? Taiwan. 764 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,400 Really? Quite nervous. 765 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,000 Wow. We don't go very far! 766 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:51,840 THEY LAUGH 767 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,080 But I am on my way home now. Oh, good. 768 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,600 And then you can do me a nice dinner tomorrow night, 769 00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:58,640 ready for my trip. 770 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:00,400 THEY LAUGH 771 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,640 Vicky's travelling over 6,000 miles to Taiwan. 772 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,160 A 17-hour flight will take her to the place where 773 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,200 her great-grandfather Harry was a prisoner of war 774 00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:21,200 to try and solve the mystery of how he died. 775 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:26,040 Ni hao. 776 00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:30,240 Feeling very far away from home. 777 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,680 I'm not the greatest at travelling too far, especially alone, 778 00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:37,920 to an unknown place that I've never been before, 779 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:40,040 where I know I can't speak the language. 780 00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:41,560 And the humidity... 781 00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:45,840 It's really overwhelming. 782 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:53,240 So, this does feel like it's the furthest away I've ever been. 783 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,520 I just can't comprehend what he'd have felt like. 784 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,040 How his head must have been. 785 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,480 And, you know, knowing that... 786 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,520 ..he was so...such a family guy. 787 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:25,760 My family keep reminding me, imagine if Harry had known 788 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,560 that his great-granddaughter was going to travel all this way 789 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,560 in his memory, and he wouldn't be forgotten. 790 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,760 I mean, I feel like I'm letting them down by being a bit scared! 791 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,400 Hi, Aaron. Hi, Vicky. 792 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:50,400 Vicky is meeting Professor Aaron Moore near Keelung Port, 793 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:56,280 where on November 14, 1942, her 35-year-old great-grandfather Harry 794 00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:00,600 first arrived into Taiwan, then part of the Japanese Empire. 795 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,840 Harry was taken prisoner in Singapore. 796 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,400 He would have been held for about eight months, and then sent here. 797 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:14,120 At this time, the Japanese Empire needed to get all of the manpower 798 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,200 and resources they could to fight what they thought was going to be 799 00:44:17,240 --> 00:44:19,280 a very long and destructive war. 800 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,120 So, they would have taken the prisoners, put them on the boats 801 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,480 and shipped them to all kinds of locations in the empire. 802 00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:29,120 Now, those ships were really only designed for animals and cargo. 803 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,440 They have subsequently been called "hell ships". 804 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:32,800 Really? 805 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,080 So, we have an account here by Adam Houston, 806 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:38,400 who is on the same ship as Harry. 807 00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,280 I'm not sure if I want to read this. 808 00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,920 "Mats of straw were laid on the floors of spaces 809 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,840 "and electric lamps were strung along the ceilings. 810 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,800 "Into these spaces, men were packed like old boots in a cupboard." 811 00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,880 God, what a saying - "old boots in a cupboard". 812 00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:00,200 "Air in the hold being vile, we were glad on the second day 813 00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:04,040 "when the Nips dropped a canvas airshaft into the stench." 814 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:05,960 So, what does that mean? 815 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,480 It's now considered an offensive term for Japanese people. 816 00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:09,840 Oh, right, OK. 817 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,160 It's derived from the original name for Japan, Nippon. 818 00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:13,960 So, what was that? 819 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,840 Well, the stench would have been all of the unwashed men 820 00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,840 kept in close quarters, some of whom were suffering from dysentery, 821 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,400 which would have affected their bowel movements. Right. 822 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:25,320 So, the smell would have got worse and worse. As they're packed into 823 00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,880 close quarters, they're also fighting for oxygen. 824 00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:29,440 Oh, God. 825 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:31,080 It's just too difficult to breathe, 826 00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:32,640 packed in that closely. 827 00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:36,720 "Early in the morning of November the 14th, the England Maru arrived 828 00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:40,680 "in port, where we, the human cattle, prepared to struggle ashore 829 00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:44,880 "after gobbling a hasty breakfast of rice and greasy water. 830 00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,800 "The previous night, another man had died of dysentery." 831 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,120 The infection would have dehydrated you. Right, OK. 832 00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,280 Eventually, also from malnutrition, you would have perished. 833 00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:57,880 It's just horrific, isn't it? 834 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,920 Then they get off the port, and they're sent to a place 835 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:06,880 called Jinguashi, or Kinkaseki, which was a prison camp. 836 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:11,080 As they were walking to the new prison camp, there were people 837 00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,920 dying at the time, because the conditions were so difficult. 838 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,800 And some locals would come out and actually observe them 839 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,640 on the march, as men were dropping. 840 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,800 He must have been absolutely petrified. 841 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:38,360 There's a reason I'm an actor, 842 00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,240 and it's cos I've got a very vivid imagination. 843 00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:44,040 And sometimes, you know, I battle with that. 844 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:46,560 And I think I'm battling with it here. 845 00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:53,880 My head's all over the shop. 846 00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:56,400 And then I'm learning information that is just... 847 00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:00,360 ..horrific. And it's my great-grandad, 848 00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,240 it's my mum's grandad. It's too close. 849 00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,240 I feel like I want to go home, and I want to be with my family, 850 00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:13,360 or I want my family here with me. 851 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:18,040 I feel really on my own in this, because... 852 00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:22,000 ..you know, it's just so much to take in and take on. 853 00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:26,480 And yet, I feel terrible for feeling like that, because he was alone, 854 00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:30,040 he didn't have his family, and he didn't make it home. 855 00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,800 I just, weirdly, feel connected. 856 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,160 Which is bonkers, cos I never even met him. 857 00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:00,840 Vicky and Aaron are travelling further east into the mountains, 858 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:04,160 to the copper mine where her great-grandfather was taken 859 00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:05,960 as forced labour. 860 00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,880 We're now at Kinkaseki, where Harry would have been 861 00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:19,800 brought into this mine, which was a massive operation at the time. 862 00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,640 This photograph is in 1943. 863 00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,040 He could very well be inside that photograph. 864 00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:26,760 We're not sure, though. 865 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,160 I'm desperately looking for his face, 866 00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,320 but I'm not sure I'll find it. 867 00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,520 The Red Cross had no access to this mine. 868 00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,880 So, they were consciously hiding what they were doing here. 869 00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:47,360 I don't get why they treated them so badly and tortured them. 870 00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:50,240 From the ship, from the hike - 871 00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,160 every single point of this, they were tortured. 872 00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:56,160 Well, if you read a lot of accounts by Japanese soldiers, they thought 873 00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:58,440 they were fighting a war that was existential, 874 00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:00,800 that if they lost the war, they would lose their country 875 00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:02,800 and their families could be murdered. 876 00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,720 And they saw people who were serving in the British Army, who were white, 877 00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,720 as part of a power structure that was oppressing, in their words, 878 00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:10,720 yellow people all over the world. 879 00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,200 Yeah, there's no mercy here, is there? 880 00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:31,640 We've come in this mine, walking in very, very poor lighting. 881 00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:34,480 It would have got hotter and hotter, the deeper you got. 882 00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:40,920 The lower levels, they could be in excess of 50 Centigrade. 883 00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,120 I actually have an account by someone who was in the mine 884 00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:52,000 at the time. 885 00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:59,520 Extracts from One Day at a Time, by Arthur Titherington, 886 00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:02,240 80th Anti-Tank Regiment. 887 00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:06,200 So, this guy would have known my great-grandad. 888 00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:08,320 Yes. 889 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,040 SHE CLEARS HER THROAT 890 00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:14,400 "Our job, as unskilled slave labour, was to collect the ore 891 00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,600 "and throw it into the chute built alongside the ladder 892 00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,600 "that had provided our access. 893 00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:23,600 "Each man was responsible for moving anything from nine to 15 tons 894 00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:27,440 "in a day. Such labour would have tried the strength of a fit, 895 00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:31,440 "well-fed man. For prisoners in bad health, dying from starvation 896 00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,120 "and disease, it's not surprising that they should fail to reach 897 00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:39,600 "their quotas, and then be beaten with a hammer." 898 00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:41,880 VICKY EXHALES 899 00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:43,600 God, it's horrible. 900 00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:45,440 It's horrible, horrible, horrible. 901 00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,440 "A further problem was the acid water that dripped continually 902 00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,320 "from the walls and roof of each hole. 903 00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,880 "This could cause temporary blindness, 904 00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:58,360 "sometimes lasting for days." 905 00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,200 One day at a time... 906 00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:06,840 Oh, God. 907 00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:12,640 They didn't have much in the way of protective gear. 908 00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:15,840 Many cases, they're doing the work with just loincloths on. 909 00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:17,360 Right. 910 00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:20,280 SHE CLEARS HER THROAT 911 00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:26,720 It's just like a horror movie. 912 00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:28,920 The whole thing is just... 913 00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,360 I mean, the irony that he had worked in a mine. 914 00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:34,920 It's a cruel working man's fate. 915 00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:36,320 Have a look at that. 916 00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:38,560 I know there's only one thing on there you can read. 917 00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:40,240 Yeah, I might struggle with this. 918 00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:44,960 Millership, Harry. 919 00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:48,600 A Japanese death certificate. 920 00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:50,120 Oh, right. 921 00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:57,520 VICKY SNIFFLES 922 00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:01,080 I am sorry. 923 00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:05,720 So am I. 924 00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:12,160 What information is on there? 925 00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:13,960 Well, there's not much, really. 926 00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,520 It just says where he died and when he died. 927 00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:18,760 But there's a Japanese report. 928 00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:27,120 "The man in question climbed up and used as a stepping place 929 00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:31,120 "a danger prevention board which had been set up there 930 00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:33,240 "to prevent climbing. 931 00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:36,560 "A nail came off from the danger prevention board 932 00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:41,320 "and he fell backward, head downward, about ten metres 933 00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:44,480 "into the second level... 934 00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:46,720 "..seventh workings. 935 00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:53,600 "Although the three men who were working in the same place 936 00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:57,080 "rushed to the place, he had a fractured skull 937 00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:59,160 "and was already dead." 938 00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:02,240 Oh, God. 939 00:53:03,720 --> 00:53:06,400 The way they presented it, that he was stepping on a safety board 940 00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:08,600 of some kind... Yeah, that's a lie. 941 00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:12,000 We don't think that there was such a safety board in place. No. 942 00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:16,200 He did fall, yeah. Right. 943 00:53:16,240 --> 00:53:19,120 I think he did die instantly. Good. It was a ten-metre fall. 944 00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:22,280 It was a quick death. 945 00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:28,040 He was the first to die in the mine. 946 00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:30,320 He was only 35 when he died. 947 00:53:33,240 --> 00:53:36,520 So, he didn't have to endure it here that long. No. 948 00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:39,960 I'm glad. I am actually glad. 949 00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,880 Nearly 25% of the prisoners of war died. 950 00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,400 Now, if you were to compare that with prisoners of war in Europe, 951 00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:48,480 they were closer to 4%. 952 00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:52,000 So, the death rates were much higher in Japanese prisoner of war camps. 953 00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,360 It feels like this was a dirty secret. 954 00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:59,040 And all the lies and... 955 00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:03,480 These prison camps, they're not known as well as they should be, 956 00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:07,760 and that generation that knew about them is passing away very quickly. 957 00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:09,480 Oh, God bless him. 958 00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:12,720 God... 959 00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:15,720 Today was going to be a tough day, not knowing where I was coming, 960 00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:19,000 but knowing that there'd be more to discover. 961 00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:22,080 It did get me to thinking about my nonna. 962 00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:29,480 She was a hard character, but she was unhappy. Yeah. 963 00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:34,320 And I would be, if this had happened to my dad. 964 00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:43,520 And I didn't have, like, the closest relationship with her, because... 965 00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:47,320 ..because I was probably an annoyingly happy kid. 966 00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:49,160 Erm... 967 00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,640 And maybe this is why. 968 00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:54,840 You know, she always had this, 969 00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:56,880 the photo of his grave nearby. 970 00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:59,760 So, there was obviously a heavy burden on her. 971 00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:05,400 You know, I think it'll only be when I get home to my loving family 972 00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:06,880 and a warm home, that... 973 00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:12,400 ..it will probably hit me quite a lot, I think. 974 00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:31,040 Close to the mine is a war memorial, 975 00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:33,600 on the site of the former camp where Harry 976 00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,040 and the other prisoners were held. 977 00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:41,480 Walking through the tunnel... 978 00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:45,920 ..standing in that mine... 979 00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:53,840 ..that was a very sort of, quite an overwhelming feeling 980 00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,760 of connection, for sure. I know that he's there. 981 00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:01,880 I know he's been there. 982 00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:06,840 And I know that's where he died. 983 00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:10,840 I'm really, really proud of Harry. 984 00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:13,880 I'm extremely proud to be his great-granddaughter. 985 00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:20,480 The whole thing has just been the most incredible, 986 00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:24,640 disturbing and life-changing experience. 987 00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:28,440 And there's been a lot of it I've not found easy. 988 00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:31,320 You know, I hoped I'd sort of have that strength, 989 00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:33,520 that Millership strength, erm... 990 00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:35,560 Yeah, I do, somewhere. 991 00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:42,160 {\an8}Maybe that's cos I've got Harry with me and, erm... 992 00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:44,080 {\an8}..his mates.