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[dramatic music playing]
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[man coughs]
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The jury has reached a verdict.
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Will the defendant please rise?
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[juror] In the case of
the State of California
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versus John Thomas Sweeney,
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on the count of second-degree murder,
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we the jury find the defendant not guilty.
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On the count of involuntary manslaughter,
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we the jury find the defendant guilty.
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[crowd murmuring]
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[judge] Ladies and gentlemen of the jury,
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on behalf of myself, the attorneys,
and the two families here,
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I want to thank you for your service.
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Not for our family, Judge Katz!
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Don't thank them on behalf of our family!
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Mr. Dunne, you will have your time
to speak during sentencing.
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It's too late then!
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That man strangled our daughter to death.
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He should rot in prison
for the rest of his life.
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- [gavel banging]
- Mr. Dunne.
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And you withheld important evidence
from the jury
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about this man's history
of violence against women.
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He beat my daughter for months
and then killed her.
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He ripped out chunks of her hair.
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Mr. Dunne!
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He strangled her for five minutes!
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- [gavel banging]
- You strangled my daughter.
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You son of a bitch!
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- Mr. Dunne. Bailiff.
- I hope you rot in hell.
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And you, how can you sleep at night
defending this monster?
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[dramatic music intensifies]
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[dramatic music ends]
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[indistinct chatter]
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[Jamie] Hey, Crocodile.
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Hey.
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How are you?
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You know, I'm okay.
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[Jamie sniffles, exhales deeply]
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I'm getting out of here. I promise.
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The trial prep has started,
and Jill, my attorney, she's, I mean...
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It's just so hard. [breath shuddering]
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You know, like my parents...
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they really don't believe you, Lyle.
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They want us to break up.
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Jamie... [chuckles]
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Forget about that.
They don't know what we have.
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Hey. You know that I love you.
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Right?
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I just wanna get this behind me,
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so that I can give you
everything you deserve, yeah?
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[buzzer blaring in distance]
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And I... I need your help.
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Okay?
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I need you to watch At Close Range.
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What? Is that like a movie or something?
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Yeah, with, uh, Sean Penn
and Christopher Walken.
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It's really, really fucking good.
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You should...
You should definitely watch it.
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Okay. Why?
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[inhales, sniffs]
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I need you to do something.
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What?
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I need you to say that my dad raped you.
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What?
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No!
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- Why not?
- Because he didn't.
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Right. But no one's gonna know that.
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It doesn't matter. I... I can't just lie
about something like that.
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Will you just please say
he came on to you or something?
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For the love of fuck! I will pay you.
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You want me to say what?
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I want you to remember that time
you found me locked in the closet.
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[handle clicks]
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- I don't remember that.
- Yes, you do.
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She made me roll in dog shit,
and you found me in the closet,
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and she gave me that Tupperware container
to go to the bathroom in.
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Are you sure this was me?
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Yes. How the fuck don't you remember this?
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That I gave you a handgun?
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No. Just that I asked you for one.
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Because you were so afraid of your dad?
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Yes, because he threatened us
and we were afraid for our lives,
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so we asked you.
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- Yeah, no.
- Right, but you told us no.
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No. I'm saying no right now.
I'm not doing that.
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Why the fuck not? It happened.
It was absolutely something that happened.
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You just have to remember it happened
because it did.
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Or at least tell other people
that you remember it
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because you do. Because you do, Brian!
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Come on, Brian! What the fuck?
What the fuck?!
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[muffled] Brian, you remember it!
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Brian, you fucking remember it, Brian!
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You fucking remember it!
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Sorry.
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[buzzer blares, door clangs]
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[buzzer blares, door clangs]
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[Jill] Let me get this straight.
Your father killed your dog.
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[Lyle] Yeah. It killed our ferret,
so he cut off its head.
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And I found it in the freezer.
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And if I answered a question wrong,
he'd just bash my head against the table.
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He would quack at me
because he said I walk like a duck.
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[imitating a duck quacking]
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[Lyle] Made fun of my stutter.
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What... what would be the best way
to reach out to--
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[stuttering] What?
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[laughing, imitating stutter]
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[Lyle] My mom would beat us.
That was very scary.
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She'd chase us with a knife.
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I wish you were never born!
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You know what? Let's call it a day.
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[machine clanks]
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[Jill] It's not that I don't believe
those stories are true.
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It's like I don't believe them
the way he tells them, you know?
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Well, it's like when I first sat down
with him, you know, it took a second,
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but he was like this scared little boy
who I felt such sympathy for.
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But for some reason,
when he's on the stand,
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he's talking about somebody else.
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Well, he just seems like...
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a psychopath.
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Well, I was going to say
a bad actor, but sure. [chuckles]
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[crunching]
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[inhales deeply]
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I mean, do you think
he's behind the whole thing?
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Lyle just invents the whole story,
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convinces Erik to go along with it?
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What if it's the other way around?
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I'm not saying that's where I'm going.
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I'm just talking out loud.
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[woman] "I saw you on TV the other day,
and I just had to write."
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"I know you're innocent
because I'm psychic."
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[sniffs]
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[woman 2] "Let me introduce myself.
My name is Candy,
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and I'm a divorced mother of two
who struggled with weight my whole--"
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[woman 3] "Hi, Lyle, I'm just writing
to say I believe you."
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"You couldn't have done
the things they say you did,
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or if you did,
you certainly had a good reason."
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"I could tell from your eyes
the very first time I saw you."
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"If you need anything, anything at all,
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maybe just even somebody to talk to,
give me a call."
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"All my love, Norma."
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[suspenseful music playing]
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[phone dialing]
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[automated voice] This is a call from
the Los Angeles County Corrections from--
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Lyle Menendez.
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[Norma] Hello?
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Hi.
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00:08:04,068 --> 00:08:04,902
Norma?
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00:08:05,402 --> 00:08:07,947
[Norma] Oh my God,
I can't believe this is happening.
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Me and Jamie,
we were never right for each other.
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And now she's making stuff up,
like I told her to say stuff.
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It just goes to show you, some people are...
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[Norma] Some people are bad news.
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Yeah. Not you, though.
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You sound hot.
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[Norma chuckles]
157
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[buzzer blares, door clangs]
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[Erik] I miss Tony.
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[suspenseful music ends]
160
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There was no time to be depressed
when he was around.
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[Dr. Vicary] What do you
miss most about him?
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The sex or...
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- What?
- [Erik sniffs]
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Remember when I told you
that my dad and this man, they were, uh...
165
00:09:01,917 --> 00:09:03,794
That he was my dad's lover.
166
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The one who... He told you
your dad was planning on killing you?
167
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Yeah, um...
168
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So that didn't happen. I... I, uh...
169
00:09:21,979 --> 00:09:22,980
I made it up.
170
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I just made it up.
171
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Can I ask why?
172
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Why did you make that up?
173
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[soft dramatic music playing]
174
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[Dr. Vicary] Erik?
175
00:09:44,335 --> 00:09:46,962
Erik, did Lyle tell you to make that up?
176
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- [dramatic music intensifies]
- [Erik crying]
177
00:09:54,678 --> 00:09:57,681
I gotta figure out what's going on
with this whole Oziel thing.
178
00:09:57,681 --> 00:09:59,975
- [inhales] It's a massive hole, you know?
- [music ends]
179
00:09:59,975 --> 00:10:02,853
Like, why didn't I tell him
about the sex stuff with my dad?
180
00:10:02,853 --> 00:10:04,813
[Norma] Yeah. That's... Yeah.
181
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I wish I could write a fucking book.
182
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That's just my story.
183
00:10:09,318 --> 00:10:12,196
Explain what it's felt like my whole life
to be Lyle Menendez.
184
00:10:12,196 --> 00:10:15,991
There's just no way that anybody
would say that I deserve to go to prison.
185
00:10:15,991 --> 00:10:20,412
[Norma] Lyle, that's a really good idea.
I could even help you write it.
186
00:10:21,914 --> 00:10:25,376
[Jill] Lyle, I'm going to ask you
to relive that day.
187
00:10:25,376 --> 00:10:26,585
Which one?
188
00:10:27,336 --> 00:10:30,756
The last day.
The last day your parents were alive.
189
00:10:31,340 --> 00:10:33,342
Yeah, okay. Um...
190
00:10:34,176 --> 00:10:35,219
I played some tennis.
191
00:10:35,219 --> 00:10:36,387
[ball popping]
192
00:10:38,263 --> 00:10:40,432
[Lyle] Uh,
but I was pretty distracted. [grunts]
193
00:10:40,432 --> 00:10:43,102
[Jill] Because you thought your mom
and dad were gonna kill you.
194
00:10:43,102 --> 00:10:45,312
No, I knew
that they were going to kill us.
195
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:47,815
It was just a matter of when.
196
00:10:47,815 --> 00:10:49,817
Which is why the boat trip was so scary.
197
00:10:49,817 --> 00:10:52,444
Yeah, I think if the captain
hadn't been there,
198
00:10:52,444 --> 00:10:54,655
then, yeah, that's probably when
they were gonna do it.
199
00:10:54,655 --> 00:10:57,157
They probably would've shot us,
and then thrown us in the water
200
00:10:57,157 --> 00:10:58,242
and said we drowned.
201
00:10:58,242 --> 00:11:02,996
But, Lyle, I really want you
to walk me through that Sunday.
202
00:11:03,789 --> 00:11:07,292
The day it... The day it happened.
203
00:11:07,292 --> 00:11:08,460
Yeah, okay.
204
00:11:08,460 --> 00:11:10,003
[Erik whispering] We need to get out.
205
00:11:10,003 --> 00:11:12,589
Where are they?
Where the fuck are Mom and Dad?
206
00:11:12,589 --> 00:11:15,634
I don't know. I mean,
I think they're downstairs. The TV's on.
207
00:11:15,634 --> 00:11:17,761
Let's just... Let's just get
the fuck out of here.
208
00:11:17,761 --> 00:11:20,931
Meet me at the car. I need you to be
there in one minute, okay? Stay calm.
209
00:11:20,931 --> 00:11:22,516
[phone clicks]
210
00:11:22,516 --> 00:11:24,601
[suspenseful music playing]
211
00:11:32,943 --> 00:11:34,236
[door creaks]
212
00:11:38,449 --> 00:11:39,575
[door closes softly]
213
00:11:43,412 --> 00:11:44,246
[floor creaks]
214
00:11:45,205 --> 00:11:47,207
[indistinct dialogue from TV]
215
00:12:07,853 --> 00:12:08,854
[Kitty] Where you going?
216
00:12:10,814 --> 00:12:13,275
- We're just going to the movies.
- Oh, no, you're not.
217
00:12:13,275 --> 00:12:14,943
You're not leaving this house.
218
00:12:14,943 --> 00:12:16,653
We just wanna go to the movies.
219
00:12:16,653 --> 00:12:21,033
You're staying right here,
and you, Erik, get upstairs. Get upstairs.
220
00:12:21,033 --> 00:12:23,327
No. No. You're not gonna touch my brother.
221
00:12:23,327 --> 00:12:25,496
You're never gonna fucking touch
my brother ever again.
222
00:12:25,496 --> 00:12:28,707
Your brother is my son, and I can do
whatever I want with him. Move away.
223
00:12:28,707 --> 00:12:30,000
Move away.
224
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,337
You're just gonna fucking stand there
and you're gonna let him do it!
225
00:12:33,337 --> 00:12:37,299
You don't get to talk to me.
You don't get to say anything!
226
00:12:37,299 --> 00:12:38,884
You ruined this family.
227
00:12:44,681 --> 00:12:46,225
Kitty, let's go.
228
00:12:48,727 --> 00:12:49,728
Let's go.
229
00:13:00,155 --> 00:13:02,157
What did you think
they were going in there to do?
230
00:13:02,157 --> 00:13:03,742
I thought they'd grab their guns.
231
00:13:03,742 --> 00:13:05,577
Where are their guns?
Are their guns upstairs?
232
00:13:05,577 --> 00:13:07,162
I don't know. Do we... Do we go check?
233
00:13:08,539 --> 00:13:09,373
[Jose] Here.
234
00:13:09,373 --> 00:13:12,292
[guns clicking]
235
00:13:12,292 --> 00:13:15,629
No, there's not enough time. Um,
grab your shotgun and meet me at the car.
236
00:13:16,672 --> 00:13:19,633
[suspenseful music continues]
237
00:13:22,219 --> 00:13:23,387
[light switch clicks]
238
00:13:26,265 --> 00:13:27,349
[shell clattering]
239
00:13:27,349 --> 00:13:28,433
[guns clicking, cocking]
240
00:13:29,101 --> 00:13:31,103
[Erik's breath shuddering]
241
00:13:39,111 --> 00:13:41,113
[suspenseful music intensifies]
242
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,325
[gunshots]
243
00:13:45,826 --> 00:13:48,745
[gunshots]
244
00:13:52,916 --> 00:13:54,918
[suspenseful music ends]
245
00:13:58,463 --> 00:14:01,800
But that's not what happened, is it?
246
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,261
No, but that's what we thought
was going to happen.
247
00:14:04,261 --> 00:14:05,637
I don't believe it.
248
00:14:05,637 --> 00:14:07,222
What? [exhales deeply]
249
00:14:09,683 --> 00:14:13,979
I don't believe a word you are saying
if I am the jury.
250
00:14:13,979 --> 00:14:14,897
Okay.
251
00:14:14,897 --> 00:14:18,734
When you first told me that story,
you felt every emotion again,
252
00:14:18,734 --> 00:14:20,694
which meant I felt it too.
253
00:14:20,694 --> 00:14:22,696
I was right there with you.
254
00:14:23,405 --> 00:14:26,199
But for some reason,
when you sit in that chair,
255
00:14:26,199 --> 00:14:28,118
I feel like you're making it all up.
256
00:14:28,118 --> 00:14:32,122
- I'm trying to get the story straight.
- No. Forget the story. That's my job.
257
00:14:32,831 --> 00:14:35,918
You put a shotgun to your mother's face.
Did you not?
258
00:14:35,918 --> 00:14:37,461
Why did you do that?
259
00:14:40,547 --> 00:14:45,218
We were, I guess,
trying to put her out of her misery.
260
00:14:45,218 --> 00:14:47,596
No, you're not a farmer, Lyle.
261
00:14:47,596 --> 00:14:49,806
She is not your prized sow.
262
00:14:50,432 --> 00:14:52,893
Why did she deserve to die?
263
00:14:55,812 --> 00:14:58,523
- Because she let him rape us.
- Yes!
264
00:14:59,024 --> 00:15:00,067
Thank you.
265
00:15:02,235 --> 00:15:09,076
Because she let him rape you.
266
00:15:09,785 --> 00:15:12,454
I need to feel the pain of that, Lyle.
267
00:15:12,454 --> 00:15:15,207
The jury needs to feel that.
268
00:15:15,207 --> 00:15:21,129
This woman, your mother, let him rape you.
269
00:15:22,589 --> 00:15:24,549
You are up for the death penalty.
270
00:15:24,549 --> 00:15:28,011
Show me what that felt like.
271
00:15:31,848 --> 00:15:34,685
So, like, the... [inhales deeply] ...emotions?
272
00:15:36,645 --> 00:15:37,604
Yes.
273
00:15:39,106 --> 00:15:41,108
So, do you want me to cry?
274
00:15:43,026 --> 00:15:44,361
Because I can do that.
275
00:15:45,570 --> 00:15:46,780
[exhales deeply]
276
00:15:47,406 --> 00:15:48,365
Yes.
277
00:15:54,871 --> 00:15:56,665
[inhales deeply]
278
00:15:59,209 --> 00:16:00,752
I just wanted to help her.
279
00:16:04,923 --> 00:16:06,466
I loved her so much.
280
00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:10,637
And I felt so bad for her.
281
00:16:10,637 --> 00:16:11,972
[sobbing]
282
00:16:14,766 --> 00:16:17,185
I was the one who found her suicide note.
283
00:16:19,396 --> 00:16:20,397
[inhales]
284
00:16:20,397 --> 00:16:23,191
So, I was the only one
who really knew what she was...
285
00:16:24,568 --> 00:16:26,236
planning on doing to herself.
286
00:16:27,279 --> 00:16:28,655
[breathing shakily]
287
00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:32,284
And I told her that she should leave him.
288
00:16:32,951 --> 00:16:34,119
[breathing shakily]
289
00:16:34,119 --> 00:16:37,497
[inhales deeply] That we would side
with her in the divorce. And that I just...
290
00:16:39,082 --> 00:16:42,335
I wanted to help. So, if she needed
to move back to Princeton
291
00:16:42,335 --> 00:16:44,171
and live with me, that was okay.
292
00:16:46,214 --> 00:16:52,012
[shakily] And I told her that I would help
her stop taking so many fucking pills.
293
00:16:53,055 --> 00:16:55,348
[sobbing] And I told her
that things would be okay.
294
00:16:55,348 --> 00:16:57,476
And I wanted everything to be okay,
and I wasn't.
295
00:16:57,476 --> 00:17:00,687
I was a fucking liar
because not everything was okay.
296
00:17:00,687 --> 00:17:01,897
But I loved her.
297
00:17:02,606 --> 00:17:04,649
I loved her, and I still do.
298
00:17:04,649 --> 00:17:05,901
I love my mom.
299
00:17:07,569 --> 00:17:08,862
I love my mommy.
300
00:17:14,034 --> 00:17:15,368
Very good, Lyle.
301
00:17:18,872 --> 00:17:19,998
Now we're talking.
302
00:17:22,542 --> 00:17:25,587
[inhales and exhales deeply]
303
00:17:28,340 --> 00:17:29,549
[sniffs]
304
00:17:43,772 --> 00:17:45,899
[mysterious music playing]
305
00:17:47,067 --> 00:17:48,902
[female vocalizing]
306
00:17:52,197 --> 00:17:54,199
[female vocalizing]
307
00:17:56,535 --> 00:17:58,537
[crowd clamoring]
308
00:17:59,621 --> 00:18:01,623
[female vocalizing]
309
00:18:05,961 --> 00:18:07,754
[crowd continues clamoring]
310
00:18:16,263 --> 00:18:18,265
[female vocalizing]
311
00:18:23,145 --> 00:18:25,147
[female vocalizing]
312
00:18:28,316 --> 00:18:30,318
[female vocalizing]
313
00:18:30,318 --> 00:18:32,404
[crowd continues clamoring]
314
00:18:35,907 --> 00:18:37,909
[girls screaming]
315
00:18:44,124 --> 00:18:45,083
Oh!
316
00:18:46,084 --> 00:18:47,252
[handcuffs clanking]
317
00:18:48,545 --> 00:18:50,881
[mysterious music continues]
318
00:19:03,977 --> 00:19:05,187
[swinging door opens]
319
00:19:20,577 --> 00:19:21,703
Okay.
320
00:19:23,830 --> 00:19:24,748
[judge] Ms. Abramson.
321
00:19:28,543 --> 00:19:29,753
[mysterious music ends]
322
00:19:29,753 --> 00:19:32,881
Don't worry. It's just large print
so I can read it.
323
00:19:32,881 --> 00:19:35,217
I won't be going
as long as the prosecution did.
324
00:19:35,217 --> 00:19:37,177
[jury chuckles]
325
00:19:38,845 --> 00:19:40,263
[Leslie exhales deeply]
326
00:19:40,263 --> 00:19:45,560
This trial...
This trial isn't going to be about who.
327
00:19:46,561 --> 00:19:50,148
It's not going to be about
what, when, or where.
328
00:19:51,191 --> 00:19:54,277
This trial is going to be about why.
329
00:19:55,278 --> 00:20:00,742
Why did Erik and Lyle Menendez
kill their parents?
330
00:20:01,493 --> 00:20:02,953
It's a simple question.
331
00:20:02,953 --> 00:20:05,413
But the answer you are about to hear
332
00:20:05,413 --> 00:20:08,458
over the next few weeks and months
333
00:20:08,458 --> 00:20:11,294
from over 50 witnesses and experts,
334
00:20:11,294 --> 00:20:14,714
the answer is far from simple.
335
00:20:14,714 --> 00:20:20,095
You will learn
in gruesome, shocking detail
336
00:20:20,095 --> 00:20:26,351
how Jose Menendez
was a sexually perverted sadist
337
00:20:26,351 --> 00:20:28,270
who molested his sons.
338
00:20:28,812 --> 00:20:34,276
How, in fact, Kitty Menendez enjoyed
sexually molesting her children, too.
339
00:20:34,276 --> 00:20:40,407
What did these boys, these children, do
to deserve abuse like that?
340
00:20:40,407 --> 00:20:42,993
What did they ever do?
341
00:20:42,993 --> 00:20:46,162
Well, I will tell you what Erik
and Lyle are guilty of.
342
00:20:46,162 --> 00:20:48,623
The only thing they are guilty of
343
00:20:48,623 --> 00:20:52,127
is loving the mother and father
who tortured them.
344
00:20:53,003 --> 00:20:54,921
So when Erik and Lyle endured
345
00:20:54,921 --> 00:20:59,384
the horrific ordeal
of shooting their parents,
346
00:20:59,384 --> 00:21:03,805
it was not out of malice or revenge.
347
00:21:03,805 --> 00:21:04,931
[dramatic music playing]
348
00:21:04,931 --> 00:21:09,644
It wasn't about fancy cars
or brand-new clothes.
349
00:21:09,644 --> 00:21:11,563
It wasn't about money.
350
00:21:13,356 --> 00:21:17,527
They fired those guns in self-defense.
351
00:21:19,696 --> 00:21:23,199
They shot the mother and father they loved
352
00:21:23,199 --> 00:21:27,996
so that Jose and Kitty Menendez
wouldn't kill them first.
353
00:21:27,996 --> 00:21:28,913
[gavel banging]
354
00:21:29,748 --> 00:21:31,750
[indistinct chatter]
355
00:21:35,337 --> 00:21:38,381
It's such an interesting angle.
356
00:21:38,381 --> 00:21:43,428
What a coincidence
it's exactly the same defense you used
357
00:21:43,428 --> 00:21:46,264
in the Arnel Salvatierra case.
358
00:21:46,765 --> 00:21:49,642
And he walked on a manslaughter charge.
359
00:21:49,642 --> 00:21:50,643
[elevator dings]
360
00:21:50,643 --> 00:21:53,021
I guess that's why they hired you.
361
00:21:54,439 --> 00:21:59,569
Oh! Wait a minute.
That wasn't their defense to start with.
362
00:22:00,153 --> 00:22:02,155
They pled not guilty.
363
00:22:03,073 --> 00:22:06,326
You didn't make up
the sexual abuse, did you?
364
00:22:07,077 --> 00:22:09,079
Because it sure worked last time.
365
00:22:10,914 --> 00:22:12,082
[chuckles]
366
00:22:14,751 --> 00:22:16,211
You know what, Dominick?
367
00:22:17,003 --> 00:22:20,006
I'm very sorry about
what happened to your daughter.
368
00:22:20,006 --> 00:22:21,800
That man should not have walked free.
369
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,219
And he wouldn't have
if I had anything to do with it.
370
00:22:24,219 --> 00:22:27,347
But you should realize,
he gave you something.
371
00:22:27,347 --> 00:22:31,309
He gave you a career
and a fucking point of view.
372
00:22:32,602 --> 00:22:33,478
[button clicks]
373
00:22:33,478 --> 00:22:36,314
For that, you should thank him.
374
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,861
But still, what if they did think
their lives were in danger that night,
375
00:22:41,861 --> 00:22:44,322
that their parents
were going to kill them?
376
00:22:44,322 --> 00:22:49,744
[chuckles] Ah, the old imperfect
self-defense theory.
377
00:22:49,744 --> 00:22:54,374
Well, darling, I've got some real estate
near the San Andreas Fault
378
00:22:54,374 --> 00:22:55,583
I'd like to sell you.
379
00:22:55,583 --> 00:22:56,543
[all laugh]
380
00:22:56,543 --> 00:22:58,211
And what a story.
381
00:22:58,753 --> 00:23:00,255
It's a Greek tragedy.
382
00:23:00,255 --> 00:23:04,259
Brothers tormented and abused for years,
383
00:23:04,259 --> 00:23:07,720
and fearful for their lives,
kill their parents
384
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:11,307
in a desperate act of self-defense.
385
00:23:11,307 --> 00:23:17,063
It's also utterly preposterous
and riddled with plot holes.
386
00:23:17,689 --> 00:23:21,776
If Jose and Kitty were planning
on murdering their sons that Sunday,
387
00:23:21,776 --> 00:23:26,197
why was Kitty inviting her friend
Karen Wiere over to the house
388
00:23:26,197 --> 00:23:29,284
to play bridge that very same night?
389
00:23:29,284 --> 00:23:33,872
Well, even if you and Peter get back
from Santa Barbara late, give us a ring.
390
00:23:33,872 --> 00:23:35,748
Maybe you can still come over.
391
00:23:35,748 --> 00:23:39,961
[Dominick] And were Lyle and Erik
really scared
392
00:23:39,961 --> 00:23:43,756
that their parents were going
to murder them during that boat ride?
393
00:23:43,756 --> 00:23:45,967
You guys ready to catch some sharks?
394
00:23:46,509 --> 00:23:49,929
[Dominick] When there were three
other people on that boat as well.
395
00:23:49,929 --> 00:23:52,348
I thought this was going to be private.
396
00:23:52,348 --> 00:23:53,766
Hmm...
397
00:23:53,766 --> 00:23:58,104
[Dominick] Also, did you know
Kitty and Jose were flying to Princeton
398
00:23:58,104 --> 00:23:59,689
the week they were killed
399
00:23:59,689 --> 00:24:05,278
to help Lyle furnish the new condo
they just bought him,
400
00:24:05,278 --> 00:24:10,200
which suggests they maybe
weren't planning to kill him?
401
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:14,996
Kitty Menendez was filling out
Erik's college registration
402
00:24:14,996 --> 00:24:16,831
the night they were murdered.
403
00:24:16,831 --> 00:24:19,083
Now, for sake of argument,
404
00:24:19,083 --> 00:24:23,171
let's say Lyle and Erik
did murder their parents in self-defense
405
00:24:23,171 --> 00:24:25,673
because they were afraid for their lives.
406
00:24:26,549 --> 00:24:30,762
Wouldn't they then call the police
and tell them the truth?
407
00:24:31,638 --> 00:24:36,601
Wouldn't they confess and come forward
with all the terrible family secrets
408
00:24:36,601 --> 00:24:38,895
they've been hiding for years?
409
00:24:40,104 --> 00:24:41,731
Wouldn't they behave
410
00:24:41,731 --> 00:24:46,945
as if they had one shred of guilt
over what they'd done?
411
00:24:47,904 --> 00:24:51,032
But no, that's not what happened.
412
00:24:51,032 --> 00:24:52,617
What did they do instead?
413
00:24:54,369 --> 00:24:58,206
They lied right from the very beginning.
414
00:24:58,206 --> 00:24:59,582
[frantic music playing]
415
00:24:59,582 --> 00:25:03,878
Okay. You're gonna... Are you sure
you can do it? Because they're gonna know.
416
00:25:03,878 --> 00:25:06,172
No, they're not gonna fucking know, Erik!
417
00:25:06,172 --> 00:25:07,966
- [phone thuds]
- Hey. Hey.
418
00:25:08,591 --> 00:25:12,178
- We fucking got this. We fucking got this.
- We're gonna fucking do this.
419
00:25:12,178 --> 00:25:14,764
- We fucking got this.
- Yeah, we're gonna fucking do this!
420
00:25:14,764 --> 00:25:16,891
- I love you so much, Lyle.
- I love you, too.
421
00:25:16,891 --> 00:25:18,643
I love you so much, E, okay?
422
00:25:19,727 --> 00:25:21,312
Don't screw it up, okay?
423
00:25:27,569 --> 00:25:28,945
[phone line ringing]
424
00:25:30,446 --> 00:25:31,906
[woman] Beverly Hills Emergency.
425
00:25:31,906 --> 00:25:33,658
[sobbing] Somebody killed our parents.
426
00:25:33,658 --> 00:25:37,203
They lied and lied and lied
427
00:25:37,203 --> 00:25:43,042
and kept on lying
at least 50 times by my count.
428
00:25:43,042 --> 00:25:47,630
They lied to the public,
their friends and relatives, to the press.
429
00:25:47,630 --> 00:25:52,343
And then they lied to make sure they got
their share of the inheritance money.
430
00:25:52,343 --> 00:25:54,137
But what about the relatives?
431
00:25:54,762 --> 00:25:56,973
They testified that Jose was abusive,
432
00:25:56,973 --> 00:25:59,642
that living in that household
was a nightmare.
433
00:25:59,642 --> 00:26:02,353
My brother could be very possessive.
434
00:26:03,396 --> 00:26:06,899
[inhales deeply] Lyle was not allowed
to express his opinions.
435
00:26:06,899 --> 00:26:07,984
[Leslie] What about Erik?
436
00:26:08,943 --> 00:26:10,570
[Marta] He thought he was weak.
437
00:26:10,570 --> 00:26:12,113
- Too tender.
- [Erik sighs]
438
00:26:12,113 --> 00:26:16,075
He'd tell him he wasn't worthy
of the name Menendez.
439
00:26:16,784 --> 00:26:20,538
Sometimes he would do things
to hurt him, make him cry,
440
00:26:20,538 --> 00:26:22,832
then taunt him and call him "sissy."
441
00:26:25,585 --> 00:26:27,253
He wanted to toughen him up.
442
00:26:28,338 --> 00:26:31,716
[Leslie] How many summers would you
estimate you spent with your cousins?
443
00:26:31,716 --> 00:26:33,051
I spent eight summers with them.
444
00:26:33,051 --> 00:26:36,679
And when you stayed with your cousins
over those summers,
445
00:26:36,679 --> 00:26:39,932
did you ever see any evidence
of sexual abuse?
446
00:26:39,932 --> 00:26:42,352
No, not directly.
447
00:26:42,352 --> 00:26:47,523
But I did know that Lyle and Erik
took showers with their dad
448
00:26:47,523 --> 00:26:48,858
after tennis lessons.
449
00:26:49,567 --> 00:26:53,071
And as soon as Jose took
either one of the boys into their room,
450
00:26:53,071 --> 00:26:54,280
he'd lock the door.
451
00:26:54,781 --> 00:26:58,951
And Kitty made it clear,
you did not go down that hallway. Ever.
452
00:26:59,827 --> 00:27:01,788
[Dominick] Look, I'll concede the point.
453
00:27:01,788 --> 00:27:05,750
Growing up Menendez was no picnic.
454
00:27:06,501 --> 00:27:10,838
But who at this table didn't experience
some form of abuse
455
00:27:10,838 --> 00:27:12,215
when they were growing up?
456
00:27:12,215 --> 00:27:16,511
By today's standards,
I certainly was a victim of child abuse.
457
00:27:16,511 --> 00:27:19,430
My father beat me mercilessly
458
00:27:20,139 --> 00:27:22,975
with straps, hangers, a riding belt.
459
00:27:23,559 --> 00:27:27,689
I'm partially deaf
because of one of his beatings.
460
00:27:28,773 --> 00:27:30,983
He thought I was a sissy, too.
461
00:27:33,611 --> 00:27:35,279
But I didn't murder him.
462
00:27:35,279 --> 00:27:37,532
I escaped the old-fashioned way.
463
00:27:37,532 --> 00:27:40,076
I moved out, started my life.
464
00:27:40,076 --> 00:27:43,246
But, Nick, you weren't sexually abused.
465
00:27:43,246 --> 00:27:46,958
[inhales deeply] Neither were
the Menendez brothers.
466
00:27:46,958 --> 00:27:49,961
Neither Lyle or Erik ever mentioned
467
00:27:49,961 --> 00:27:53,548
that they were sexually abused
to Jerome Oziel.
468
00:27:53,548 --> 00:27:57,260
That's a fairly sizable omission.
469
00:27:57,260 --> 00:28:01,139
If you're already confessing
to murdering your parents,
470
00:28:01,139 --> 00:28:03,766
why not come clean about all of it?
471
00:28:03,766 --> 00:28:07,103
So you think it's bullshit?
They're making it all up?
472
00:28:07,729 --> 00:28:11,190
According to a Menendez relative
I've been talking to--
473
00:28:11,190 --> 00:28:12,817
Which relative?
474
00:28:12,817 --> 00:28:15,153
Sorry, Linda,
I have to protect my sources.
475
00:28:15,153 --> 00:28:16,571
[scoffs]
476
00:28:16,571 --> 00:28:19,574
But, according to him,
477
00:28:19,574 --> 00:28:23,369
the brothers came up
with the sexual abuse angle
478
00:28:23,369 --> 00:28:29,459
after reading several books
about parricide and incest.
479
00:28:29,459 --> 00:28:32,754
Those books would give them
all the details they'd need
480
00:28:32,754 --> 00:28:35,590
to convince a jury
it had happened to them.
481
00:28:35,590 --> 00:28:38,926
And from Leslie's perspective,
482
00:28:39,677 --> 00:28:43,347
the sexual abuse angle could also serve
483
00:28:43,347 --> 00:28:45,767
to deflect attention away from...
484
00:28:47,810 --> 00:28:50,313
Erik's sexuality.
485
00:28:52,356 --> 00:28:56,778
Wait. You... you mean to say
that Erik is, uh...
486
00:28:57,361 --> 00:28:59,530
Well, I was chatting the other day
487
00:28:59,530 --> 00:29:04,202
with my new favorite lunch buddy,
Pam Bozanich, and she said...
488
00:29:04,202 --> 00:29:06,370
[Pam] Everybody knows Erik's gay.
489
00:29:06,370 --> 00:29:09,415
It's like a big, open secret
nobody wants to talk about.
490
00:29:09,415 --> 00:29:11,834
My team knows it, the defense knows it,
491
00:29:11,834 --> 00:29:14,504
but any time it's even hinted at in court,
492
00:29:14,504 --> 00:29:17,715
Leslie goes fucking ballistic.
493
00:29:17,715 --> 00:29:19,884
What makes you think he is?
494
00:29:19,884 --> 00:29:23,638
Well, we've heard he's been receiving
blowjobs from some of the other inmates.
495
00:29:23,638 --> 00:29:26,182
- [water running]
- [Erik moans]
496
00:29:26,182 --> 00:29:30,019
Well, that doesn't make you gay.
That just makes you popular.
497
00:29:30,019 --> 00:29:35,900
Also, he did pose for some rather
homoerotic photos with a gay photographer.
498
00:29:35,900 --> 00:29:37,360
[camera shutter clicking]
499
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,445
Okay, so maybe Erik is gay,
500
00:29:39,445 --> 00:29:42,156
but being in the closet
doesn't make you a murderer, Nick.
501
00:29:42,156 --> 00:29:44,242
It doesn't even make you a bad person.
502
00:29:44,867 --> 00:29:46,285
[inhales deeply]
503
00:29:46,285 --> 00:29:48,120
No, it doesn't.
504
00:29:49,038 --> 00:29:50,039
[tongue clicks]
505
00:29:51,082 --> 00:29:52,416
But just maybe
506
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:58,214
the brothers were hiding
an even deeper, darker secret.
507
00:29:58,714 --> 00:29:59,549
[inhales]
508
00:30:00,550 --> 00:30:05,596
A secret that had nothing to do with Jose.
509
00:30:06,848 --> 00:30:10,601
And maybe that's what Kitty knew about.
510
00:30:13,104 --> 00:30:15,940
Erik! How many times have I told you?!
511
00:30:15,940 --> 00:30:19,026
Do not leave your sweaty tennis shorts
on the floor.
512
00:30:19,026 --> 00:30:21,362
You're gonna stink up the whole house!
513
00:30:21,362 --> 00:30:23,447
[shower running]
514
00:30:25,366 --> 00:30:26,659
[basket thuds]
515
00:30:32,081 --> 00:30:33,124
[door closes]
516
00:30:33,124 --> 00:30:35,209
[mysterious music playing]
517
00:30:36,002 --> 00:30:39,589
Nick, are you saying that Lyle and Erik
518
00:30:39,589 --> 00:30:44,343
were... together with each other?
519
00:30:45,970 --> 00:30:48,097
It's the idea of transference.
520
00:30:49,348 --> 00:30:52,476
It's easier to accuse Jose of sexual abuse
521
00:30:52,476 --> 00:30:56,022
than to acknowledge
the real incestuous relationship.
522
00:30:56,022 --> 00:30:57,899
The consensual one.
523
00:30:59,483 --> 00:31:02,945
Imagine the guilt and shame
the brothers would feel
524
00:31:02,945 --> 00:31:05,323
if their secret ever came out.
525
00:31:06,949 --> 00:31:12,079
And perhaps they killed their parents
so that it never would.
526
00:31:13,873 --> 00:31:19,170
Look, my main point here is that
regardless of what happened to them,
527
00:31:19,170 --> 00:31:22,256
Lyle and Erik aren't entitled
to forgiveness.
528
00:31:22,757 --> 00:31:26,844
Leslie and her team think that
if they can distract us from the facts,
529
00:31:26,844 --> 00:31:30,097
keep certain evidence
out of the courtroom,
530
00:31:30,097 --> 00:31:34,310
confuse us with outlandish legal theories,
531
00:31:34,310 --> 00:31:35,770
drum up enough sympathy,
532
00:31:35,770 --> 00:31:40,441
and portray the brothers as hapless lads
straight out of a Charles Dickens novel,
533
00:31:40,441 --> 00:31:41,859
we'll all fall for it,
534
00:31:41,859 --> 00:31:45,863
and they'll get the Hollywood ending
she thinks they deserve.
535
00:31:46,614 --> 00:31:52,662
But when you savagely snuff out
another person's life...
536
00:31:56,707 --> 00:32:01,337
it shouldn't matter
how crummy your childhood was.
537
00:32:02,296 --> 00:32:06,008
You should be punished
to the fullest extent of the law.
538
00:32:06,008 --> 00:32:10,221
That's the ending
the Menendez brothers deserve.
539
00:32:10,221 --> 00:32:15,393
And I pray for the sake of justice
540
00:32:17,311 --> 00:32:19,355
it's the ending they get.
541
00:32:24,235 --> 00:32:26,237
[mysterious music ends]
542
00:32:27,321 --> 00:32:29,532
Mr. Dunne, we're about to head out.
543
00:32:29,532 --> 00:32:30,992
Anything else you need?
544
00:32:32,118 --> 00:32:33,327
[Dominick sighs]
545
00:32:33,911 --> 00:32:35,079
What's your name?
546
00:32:35,746 --> 00:32:37,373
Paul. Paul D'Emilio.
547
00:32:38,124 --> 00:32:43,671
Well, Paul, there's a slice
of completely untouched tiramisu here.
548
00:32:44,255 --> 00:32:45,881
I'd hate for it to go to waste.
549
00:32:46,465 --> 00:32:47,383
I wish I could,
550
00:32:47,383 --> 00:32:51,846
but I've got a photo shoot tomorrow
and I think I have to go shirtless.
551
00:32:53,556 --> 00:32:57,226
The sacrifices we make for our vocation.
552
00:33:02,773 --> 00:33:06,193
Mr. Dunne, I just wanted to say
553
00:33:06,986 --> 00:33:10,281
I'm so sorry about what happened
to your daughter.
554
00:33:11,157 --> 00:33:13,242
I loved her in Poltergeist.
555
00:33:13,743 --> 00:33:16,662
[chuckling] It was, like,
one of my favorite movies as a kid.
556
00:33:17,246 --> 00:33:18,789
Haven't seen it in years.
557
00:33:21,292 --> 00:33:23,169
Can't bring myself to watch it.
558
00:33:26,839 --> 00:33:28,049
Uh...
559
00:33:28,049 --> 00:33:31,552
What the hell.
A bite or two of tiramisu won't kill me.
560
00:33:32,219 --> 00:33:34,930
I can work it off at the gym
in the morning before the shoot.
561
00:33:35,723 --> 00:33:36,724
May I?
562
00:33:36,724 --> 00:33:37,933
By all means.
563
00:33:39,518 --> 00:33:40,686
[Dominick chuckles]
564
00:33:42,563 --> 00:33:45,983
I'm assuming you don't have kids.
565
00:33:46,609 --> 00:33:49,028
[chuckling] Not yet. One day, maybe.
566
00:33:49,820 --> 00:33:54,575
My ex-wife and I had two daughters
before Dominique,
567
00:33:55,659 --> 00:33:57,787
but they both died in infancy...
568
00:33:59,872 --> 00:34:05,002
which made Dominique our miracle daughter,
569
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:06,962
our angel,
570
00:34:08,964 --> 00:34:11,634
who we always assumed would bury us.
571
00:34:11,634 --> 00:34:12,760
[sobbing]
572
00:34:13,260 --> 00:34:15,805
[Dominick] That's the way
it's supposed to be, right?
573
00:34:16,305 --> 00:34:18,808
[machine beeping]
574
00:34:23,562 --> 00:34:25,564
[female vocalizing]
575
00:34:25,564 --> 00:34:27,650
[machine flat lining]
576
00:34:29,193 --> 00:34:32,530
I was... convinced
577
00:34:32,530 --> 00:34:35,825
that would be the most difficult moment
578
00:34:36,408 --> 00:34:38,285
of the entire ordeal...
579
00:34:39,203 --> 00:34:40,287
[female vocalizing]
580
00:34:40,287 --> 00:34:42,289
...of our entire lives.
581
00:34:43,541 --> 00:34:45,000
But I was wrong.
582
00:34:46,293 --> 00:34:51,215
Far worse was watching
the trial of John Sweeney
583
00:34:51,215 --> 00:34:55,719
and how the defense tried
to make him out to be the victim.
584
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,096
[attorney] How old were you?
585
00:34:58,305 --> 00:34:59,765
I was about five.
586
00:35:00,808 --> 00:35:04,562
I remember my dad
flying into a drunken rage
587
00:35:04,562 --> 00:35:07,690
and squeezing my mother's neck.
588
00:35:07,690 --> 00:35:09,024
[somber music playing]
589
00:35:09,024 --> 00:35:11,360
I was terrified he was gonna kill her.
590
00:35:12,486 --> 00:35:14,738
[attorney] And was he ever
violent toward you?
591
00:35:15,489 --> 00:35:16,407
Yes.
592
00:35:17,533 --> 00:35:18,742
Multiple times.
593
00:35:19,702 --> 00:35:22,121
[John sobbing] The abuse was endless.
594
00:35:22,121 --> 00:35:24,999
Well, let me tell you about abuse.
595
00:35:25,499 --> 00:35:27,501
[female vocalizing]
596
00:35:28,002 --> 00:35:34,216
He strangled Dominique... for five minutes.
597
00:35:35,593 --> 00:35:36,844
[female vocalizing]
598
00:35:36,844 --> 00:35:40,681
My girl... fought...
599
00:35:42,725 --> 00:35:45,436
for five minutes.
600
00:35:46,103 --> 00:35:50,357
The bastard even admitted it
right there on the lawn.
601
00:35:50,357 --> 00:35:54,195
- I killed her. I tried to kill myself.
- [police] Hands where we can see them!
602
00:35:54,195 --> 00:35:56,280
[sirens blaring]
603
00:35:59,325 --> 00:36:00,492
[sniffs]
604
00:36:00,492 --> 00:36:02,578
[somber music ends]
605
00:36:03,454 --> 00:36:06,123
He spent three and a half years in prison.
606
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,628
Got a job as a chef in Santa Monica.
607
00:36:12,213 --> 00:36:15,049
That's... That's not justice.
608
00:36:15,716 --> 00:36:16,926
No, it's not.
609
00:36:18,093 --> 00:36:20,137
[inhales] That's why
610
00:36:20,137 --> 00:36:24,266
I never believe a word that
comes out of a defense attorney's mouth.
611
00:36:25,392 --> 00:36:29,355
They'll lie, cheat, steal,
anything to win.
612
00:36:30,231 --> 00:36:35,736
Even if it means desecrating the memory
of the real victims.
613
00:36:37,154 --> 00:36:42,243
Which is like murdering them
a second time.
614
00:36:46,288 --> 00:36:47,456
[Dominick exhales]
615
00:36:47,456 --> 00:36:48,749
[sniffs]
616
00:36:49,792 --> 00:36:51,585
How was the tiramisu?
617
00:36:52,211 --> 00:36:54,338
Clearly, it was very good.
618
00:36:54,338 --> 00:36:55,297
[Dominick chuckles]
619
00:36:55,297 --> 00:36:56,465
Clearly.
620
00:37:04,807 --> 00:37:07,685
I could stay longer if you want.
621
00:37:12,523 --> 00:37:13,941
[exhales]
622
00:37:16,735 --> 00:37:18,237
It's getting late, Paul.
623
00:37:18,946 --> 00:37:24,576
And, um, Lyle Menendez
takes the stand tomorrow.
624
00:37:27,329 --> 00:37:30,207
But thank you... for listening.
625
00:37:31,750 --> 00:37:33,502
And good luck with your shoot.
626
00:37:33,502 --> 00:37:34,753
[chuckles softly]
627
00:37:42,052 --> 00:37:44,054
[somber music playing]
628
00:37:47,182 --> 00:37:48,684
[sobs]
629
00:37:49,226 --> 00:37:52,146
[sobbing]
630
00:37:56,066 --> 00:37:58,068
[sobbing continues]
631
00:38:15,419 --> 00:38:17,755
[Jill] The defense
calls Joseph Lyle Menendez.
632
00:38:18,297 --> 00:38:19,798
[clerk] Raise your right hand.
633
00:38:20,299 --> 00:38:21,633
Do you solemnly state
634
00:38:21,633 --> 00:38:24,636
that the testimony you shall give
in this matter is the truth,
635
00:38:24,636 --> 00:38:28,265
the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God?
636
00:38:28,807 --> 00:38:30,476
- [Lyle] I do.
- [clerk] Please be seated.
637
00:38:37,733 --> 00:38:38,734
[somber music ends]
638
00:38:38,734 --> 00:38:42,154
Were your parents Mary Louise Menendez
and Jose Menendez?
639
00:38:42,154 --> 00:38:43,113
[Lyle] Yes.
640
00:38:43,864 --> 00:38:45,407
Did you love your mom and dad?
641
00:38:46,867 --> 00:38:47,785
Yes.
642
00:38:48,369 --> 00:38:50,371
[Jill] And on August 20th, 1989,
643
00:38:50,371 --> 00:38:53,165
did you and your brother
kill your mother and father?
644
00:38:55,584 --> 00:38:56,460
Yes.
645
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:58,879
[Jill] Why did you kill your parents?
646
00:38:59,838 --> 00:39:01,590
Because we were afraid.
647
00:39:03,092 --> 00:39:06,929
Do you remember firing
a very close shot at your father?
648
00:39:07,638 --> 00:39:09,681
I believe so. I don't remember.
649
00:39:09,681 --> 00:39:11,308
I remember the picture.
650
00:39:11,892 --> 00:39:15,437
[Jill] The picture you saw here? You're
talking about your dad's head wound?
651
00:39:18,482 --> 00:39:20,818
And at some point, was your gun empty?
652
00:39:23,278 --> 00:39:24,113
Yes.
653
00:39:24,947 --> 00:39:27,991
[Jill] And was there something
about your mother you learned then?
654
00:39:27,991 --> 00:39:30,411
Where you saw something
or you heard something?
655
00:39:30,411 --> 00:39:31,328
[Lyle sniffing]
656
00:39:31,328 --> 00:39:35,249
You could, uh, sort of see
behind my dad moving.
657
00:39:36,208 --> 00:39:37,334
Seemed like moving.
658
00:39:38,836 --> 00:39:40,712
Uh, and, um...
659
00:39:42,172 --> 00:39:45,217
I... reloaded.
660
00:39:46,301 --> 00:39:47,553
You reloaded?
661
00:39:49,555 --> 00:39:50,931
- Is that a yes?
- Yes.
662
00:39:52,307 --> 00:39:54,852
[Jill] And what did you do
after you reloaded?
663
00:39:56,937 --> 00:39:58,147
[inhales]
664
00:40:02,067 --> 00:40:03,610
Um... I, uh...
665
00:40:04,778 --> 00:40:09,032
I... I reached over and I shot her close.
666
00:40:15,914 --> 00:40:19,626
[Jill] Lyle, taking your attention
to when you were six,
667
00:40:19,626 --> 00:40:23,589
did your father ever take photographs
of you and your brother?
668
00:40:24,965 --> 00:40:25,799
[softly] Yes.
669
00:40:25,799 --> 00:40:30,345
Your Honor, can you please
ask the witness to speak up?
670
00:40:30,971 --> 00:40:34,683
Yes. Mr. Menendez, if you wouldn't mind
speaking a bit closer to the mic.
671
00:40:35,267 --> 00:40:36,768
[sniffs] I'm sorry, Your Honor.
672
00:40:38,896 --> 00:40:40,147
[Lyle exhales shakily]
673
00:40:40,147 --> 00:40:42,191
[footsteps]
674
00:40:42,191 --> 00:40:46,612
Mr. Menendez, this envelope says
"Erik's Sixth Birthday" on it.
675
00:40:47,362 --> 00:40:49,490
[paper rustling]
676
00:40:50,908 --> 00:40:53,410
- You recognize this photograph?
- That's me.
677
00:40:53,911 --> 00:40:54,912
And this one?
678
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:58,207
That is my brother.
679
00:40:58,707 --> 00:41:02,127
- You recognize the mark on your brother?
- The, uh, birthmark.
680
00:41:02,127 --> 00:41:04,463
The brown birthmark.
681
00:41:05,005 --> 00:41:08,300
[Jill] And when your father
would take photos of this nature...
682
00:41:10,469 --> 00:41:14,681
did he seem to take photos of your faces?
683
00:41:16,016 --> 00:41:21,355
[Lyle] Uh, no.
He would take photos of our genital area,
684
00:41:21,355 --> 00:41:24,983
um, of like, your lower half
of your body, and, uh...
685
00:41:26,944 --> 00:41:28,737
or if you're bending over.
686
00:41:29,446 --> 00:41:34,660
[Jill] And between the ages
of six and eight...
687
00:41:38,205 --> 00:41:41,917
did your father ever have
sexual contact with you?
688
00:41:42,918 --> 00:41:44,920
[somber music playing]
689
00:41:46,755 --> 00:41:47,631
Yes.
690
00:41:47,631 --> 00:41:49,007
How did it start?
691
00:41:54,388 --> 00:41:55,472
Just, um...
692
00:42:02,354 --> 00:42:03,730
It just started with, uh...
693
00:42:04,231 --> 00:42:05,774
[inhales and exhales deeply]
694
00:42:05,774 --> 00:42:11,530
After sports practices,
he would, um, massage me.
695
00:42:13,865 --> 00:42:15,075
Um...
696
00:42:16,201 --> 00:42:21,665
[inhales] And he, uh,
would show me and fondle me
697
00:42:21,665 --> 00:42:24,543
and ask me to do the same with him.
698
00:42:28,630 --> 00:42:31,383
And he would put me on the ground.
699
00:42:33,427 --> 00:42:37,431
And would, you know, guide my movements.
700
00:42:39,766 --> 00:42:41,560
And I would have, uh...
701
00:42:43,604 --> 00:42:44,771
oral sex with him.
702
00:42:47,316 --> 00:42:48,900
[Jill] Did you want to do this?
703
00:42:54,948 --> 00:42:57,826
And at some point,
did he do other things to you?
704
00:43:00,454 --> 00:43:01,330
Yes.
705
00:43:01,997 --> 00:43:02,831
Um...
706
00:43:04,958 --> 00:43:05,959
He...
707
00:43:10,505 --> 00:43:12,716
Yeah, he would use objects,
708
00:43:14,176 --> 00:43:15,469
a toothbrush...
709
00:43:17,512 --> 00:43:22,100
and a, um... some sort of shaving utensil.
710
00:43:23,935 --> 00:43:25,562
[Jill] What did he do with them?
711
00:43:26,813 --> 00:43:28,523
[breathing shakily]
712
00:43:28,523 --> 00:43:30,442
We would have object sessions.
713
00:43:31,985 --> 00:43:36,573
Uh, he would lay me on the bed,
and... I would be naked,
714
00:43:36,573 --> 00:43:40,827
and he had a tube of Vaseline,
and he just...
715
00:43:42,537 --> 00:43:43,789
He played with me.
716
00:43:48,335 --> 00:43:50,128
[Jill] And at some point,
717
00:43:50,128 --> 00:43:54,424
did your father try to anally
penetrate you with something else?
718
00:43:58,470 --> 00:43:59,888
Uh, he did. He...
719
00:44:01,682 --> 00:44:02,641
raped me.
720
00:44:04,601 --> 00:44:05,602
[Jill] Did you cry?
721
00:44:08,814 --> 00:44:09,773
[softly] Yes.
722
00:44:10,941 --> 00:44:12,651
- [Jill] Did you bleed?
- Yes.
723
00:44:14,111 --> 00:44:15,278
[Jill] Were you scared?
724
00:44:15,278 --> 00:44:16,279
Very.
725
00:44:17,531 --> 00:44:19,241
[Jill] Did you ask him not to?
726
00:44:19,741 --> 00:44:21,118
[sobbing] Yes.
727
00:44:24,538 --> 00:44:26,498
I said that I didn't... I'm sorry.
728
00:44:27,624 --> 00:44:29,626
[somber music intensifies]
729
00:44:31,753 --> 00:44:35,048
I said that I didn't want to do this
and that it hurt.
730
00:44:36,717 --> 00:44:39,386
And he said he didn't mean to hurt me,
and that he loved me.
731
00:44:39,386 --> 00:44:41,471
- Did you tell your mom?
- Yes.
732
00:44:41,471 --> 00:44:45,809
- What did you say to your mom?
- I told her to tell Dad to leave me alone.
733
00:44:47,185 --> 00:44:48,645
That he keeps touching me.
734
00:44:48,645 --> 00:44:50,063
[Jill] What did your mom say?
735
00:44:50,063 --> 00:44:54,443
[Lyle] She said, "Stop that.
And that you're exaggerating."
736
00:44:54,443 --> 00:44:57,904
"Your dad has to punish you
when you do things wrong."
737
00:44:59,406 --> 00:45:01,199
[shakily] And she said that he loved me.
738
00:45:02,784 --> 00:45:05,412
[Lyle sobbing]
739
00:45:05,412 --> 00:45:08,790
And did you ever tell anyone else?
740
00:45:09,541 --> 00:45:12,753
[Lyle] No. No, because I was afraid,
741
00:45:12,753 --> 00:45:16,131
and my dad didn't want me to.
742
00:45:16,131 --> 00:45:20,135
He said that bad things would happen
if I told anyone,
743
00:45:20,135 --> 00:45:22,929
that he would, um, kill me.
744
00:45:23,513 --> 00:45:25,098
Did you tell your brother?
745
00:45:31,229 --> 00:45:32,147
No.
746
00:45:35,317 --> 00:45:37,527
[Jill] Did you do something
to your brother?
747
00:45:44,034 --> 00:45:45,911
[sobbing] Yes.
748
00:45:48,371 --> 00:45:50,040
[Jill] What did you do to your brother?
749
00:45:57,047 --> 00:45:59,549
Sometimes I would, when I felt, um...
750
00:46:00,217 --> 00:46:01,343
I don't know...
751
00:46:07,140 --> 00:46:08,683
I took a toothbrush and...
752
00:46:11,102 --> 00:46:13,021
played with Erik in the same way.
753
00:46:15,857 --> 00:46:17,108
[sobbing quietly]
754
00:46:18,401 --> 00:46:19,694
[shakily] I'm sorry.
755
00:46:22,155 --> 00:46:23,365
[sobbing] I'm sorry.
756
00:46:24,366 --> 00:46:25,617
I'm so sorry.
757
00:46:26,618 --> 00:46:28,411
[Lyle continues sobbing]
758
00:46:32,707 --> 00:46:34,709
[somber music continues]
759
00:46:41,216 --> 00:46:43,218
[indistinct chatter]
760
00:46:47,597 --> 00:46:50,809
I don't know what happened in there.
That was unbelievable.
761
00:46:50,809 --> 00:46:53,520
It was actually unbelievable!
762
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,231
And the room bought it!
763
00:46:56,231 --> 00:46:59,067
They bought it. I really think
that they fucking bought all of it.
764
00:47:00,652 --> 00:47:01,611
- I...
- [Pam sighing]
765
00:47:02,696 --> 00:47:03,572
Uh...
766
00:47:05,740 --> 00:47:08,743
I'm so sorry, Pam.
You'll have to excuse me.
767
00:47:13,874 --> 00:47:15,792
See, I told you I could move the jury.
768
00:47:16,626 --> 00:47:18,336
Ten to two. That's how it's gonna go.
769
00:47:18,336 --> 00:47:21,423
Because that was the greatest testimony
ever given in a courtroom.
770
00:47:21,423 --> 00:47:22,716
I was like a white knight.
771
00:47:22,716 --> 00:47:24,551
[Norma] Yeah. Oh, I agree.
772
00:47:24,551 --> 00:47:26,553
[Lyle] And I'm not going to stop
at just a book.
773
00:47:26,553 --> 00:47:29,556
I'm gonna take this whole fucking thing
and turn it into a screenplay
774
00:47:29,556 --> 00:47:30,473
and make a movie.
775
00:47:30,473 --> 00:47:32,809
You know who could play me?
Richard fucking Grieco.
776
00:47:32,809 --> 00:47:34,185
Honestly, sky's the limit.
777
00:47:34,185 --> 00:47:37,314
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the jury
wrote the judge a note and said,
778
00:47:37,314 --> 00:47:41,401
"We don't need to fucking hear anymore.
Okay, let's just wrap this shit up."
779
00:47:41,401 --> 00:47:44,279
I could probably produce 10,000 letters
from people saying
780
00:47:44,279 --> 00:47:47,449
that they would be willing
to let me stay in their homes. 10,000.
781
00:47:47,449 --> 00:47:50,076
I mean, even a fucking priest said
that he would take me in.
782
00:47:50,076 --> 00:47:52,412
- [Norma chuckles]
- Yeah, yeah, a fucking priest.
783
00:47:52,412 --> 00:47:54,748
[engine shuts off, door opens and closes]
784
00:47:58,376 --> 00:48:00,462
[Leslie sniffs, clears throat]
785
00:48:02,964 --> 00:48:04,049
[crickets chirping]
786
00:48:04,049 --> 00:48:05,467
[Dominick exhales]
787
00:48:05,467 --> 00:48:07,802
I owe you an apology.
788
00:48:07,802 --> 00:48:09,554
[chuckles softly]
789
00:48:10,347 --> 00:48:14,684
No need to apologize, Dominick.
Just quit stalking me.
790
00:48:14,684 --> 00:48:18,563
I'm sorry. I... I had no idea.
791
00:48:20,899 --> 00:48:22,067
I believe him,
792
00:48:23,318 --> 00:48:26,529
which means one of two things.
793
00:48:26,529 --> 00:48:33,161
Either those two boys endured
the most sickening abuse imaginable
794
00:48:33,161 --> 00:48:36,498
and their parents got exactly
what was coming to them,
795
00:48:37,082 --> 00:48:43,838
or you were able to coach that performance
out of a lying, murderous psychopath.
796
00:48:46,466 --> 00:48:51,930
I don't know which one
of those possibilities scares me more.
797
00:48:53,264 --> 00:48:57,018
In either case, congratulations, I guess.
798
00:49:03,900 --> 00:49:04,859
Dominick.
799
00:49:13,743 --> 00:49:14,869
I'm really sorry.
800
00:49:16,162 --> 00:49:17,706
She was a beautiful girl.
801
00:49:19,290 --> 00:49:21,334
And she had her whole life ahead of her.
802
00:49:29,968 --> 00:49:32,429
You know what her last words to me were?
803
00:49:34,389 --> 00:49:35,849
"I love you, Daddy."
804
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,023
At least I'll have that forever.
805
00:50:02,250 --> 00:50:04,252
[sentimental music playing]
806
00:50:05,795 --> 00:50:06,796
[door closes]
807
00:51:54,529 --> 00:51:56,364
[sentimental music ends]