The doors to the Den are open for business.
A place where fortunes are made and futures are forged.
But this time the game has changed.
A fresh wave of fierce investors
are out to shake things up and steal the deals.
Tonight...
I'm Jenna Meek. I'm a serial entrepreneur.
I'm currently the co-founder and CEO of REFY Beauty.
- Jenna, welcome back to the Den. - No, thank you for having me back.
I'm excited for today.
When I look into the eyes of an entrepreneur,
there is literally one thing I'm looking for.
It's their belief that their idea is going to succeed.
I can see in people's eyes if they're lying to me.
I know exactly what I can bring to a business.
So if there's a fight for an investment,
I will be absolutely fighting for it.
I love disagreeing with the Dragons. I really, really do.
I am not scared of any of the Dragons.
If anything, they should be scared of me.
SHE LAUGHS
I'm Zaahirah, my business is called hati.
I want to start a movement of human connection,
and my pitch starts in quite a unique way.
I'm just trying to throw the Dragons a little bit off kilter.
- OK. Absolutely no idea. - Zero idea.
- I'm stuck. - There's something a bit eerie about it.
There Is something a bit eerie.
My perfect match in a Dragon for my business would be Steven.
He understands, like, the Millennial generation, the Gen Z
generation, can really get us front and centre.
Hello, Dragons. I'm Z, and I'm the founder of hati.
We are gathered here today to finally lay to rest
traditional dating apps. Because for those of us like myself
who are in search of real human connection,
they've wasted enough of our time.
Now, before I tell you any more, I wanted to give you a quick question.
I can either continue to pitch this to you myself,
or I can put the rest of the pitch up on the screen behind me,
lay in this coffin, and allow you to read it.
The choice is yours.
- I'd say get in the coffin. - I'd say get in the coffin.
SHE LAUGHS
You should never ask that of a Dragon.
We're all going to say, "Get in the coffin."
OK, I'm really going to need you to let me pitch this to you,
please, rather than just reading the story!
All right, go on. SHE LAUGHS
No, we'd love to hear from you instead.
It would've been really awkward
if you actually wanted me to get in the coffin,
because, let's face it,
you'd never make a business decision over text alone,
so why are we dating that way?
80% of users of traditional dating apps
are emotionally burnt out by them.
And I should know, because I'm one of them.
After deleting them for what felt like the hundredth time,
I hit my absolute breaking point -
and from the ashes of my absolute despair at that point,
hati was born.
The online dating industry
is potentially worth over $9 billion
and yet today, only 15% to 20% of matches
ever turn into a two-way conversation.
On hati, we're completely flipping the script.
Instead, every single match
will turn into a five-minute scheduled voice or video call.
So once you connect, there's no messaging,
there's no dialling in, there's no scheduling.
The app automatically does it for you.
There's no exchanging numbers.
The app calls you both at the right time and connects you.
After the call, you choose.
You can speak to that person again or end the match forever.
We launched on the 14th of February, we made revenue in ten days,
and we've already grown to over 5,000 downloads.
Today, I'm offering you the opportunity
to invest £150,000 for 5% of a business
that will become the next unicorn.
Dragons, this isn't just an investment in an app,
it's an investment in rehumanising the way that we find love.
Are you in?
You're going to have to wait to find out.
THEY LAUGH
I was really hoping you were just going to go straight to "Yes."
Looking to spark a connection with a Dragon
is online romance revolutionary Zaahirah
and her next-generation dating app.
The entrepreneur is seeking £150,000
for a 5% share in her business.
First to lean in with a question is Deborah Meaden.
I'm sorry, I didn't catch your name.
- Did you say? - Z. - Z? - Well, my full name is Zaahirah,
but everyone calls me Z.
Zaahirah, that's lovely.
Z. OK, so, I mean, the idea sounds great.
Just explain where you are with the business at the moment.
What's your revenue model,
and how much money have you made today?
I'm assuming you mean February the 14th this year...
- This year. - ...you started. Right, so it is quite new.
Brand-new - and, like, my whole point of launching it
was to prove that there is a different revenue model
you can have against a dating app.
So some of the traditional ones
took anywhere between two and five years to monetise.
So one of the ways we make revenue
is through booking dates through the app.
So we get a commission for every date that's been booked.
The other way is we've integrated
with dating coaching and mental health,
cos my philosophy isn't just get people on better dates,
it's actually make people better daters.
So we also get commission from any dating coaching
that's been booked through the app - and then, eventually,
we want to trial things like minimum subscriptions.
So it's everyone, and it's not a lot. It's, like, 2.99 a month.
Is that the longest version of you saying
it's pre-revenue that I have ever heard in my life?
So we've only made about £48 of revenue so far, yeah.
THEY LAUGH
All of those words you gave were good and really interesting,
- but you're pre-revenue, really. - Pre-revenue, yeah.
OK, so you've got 5,000 people signed up.
How many of those are actually active users?
So it varies on the day. We've had about 17,500 likes sent,
we've had 100 phone calls - but a lot of people
have now run out of people to actually go on a date with.
So we largely grew through, like, organic TikTok.
So we had a couple of videos go massively viral,
just me explaining the concept.
Then you get users all over the country,
you don't just get them in London, which is a real problem
cos, really, this is hyper-localised, right?
So you want to launch in London and then scale it.
So, yeah.
Z, I have a lot of experience in this industry.
- I've spent some time with the founder and CEO of Hinge. - Mm-hm.
I've also spent some time with the CEO of Tinder,
good friends with the CEO of Bumble.
So this is a very difficult challenge, right?
And everything you've said about people's dismay
and dissatisfaction with dating apps is so unbelievably true.
I hear it all the time from everybody,
and I would just hate to be on the dating app circuit.
And that video that went viral...
- Yeah. - ...what were you saying in the video?
Literally, just me explaining the concept.
And what part of it was resonant?
I think, A - it's very novel, right?
We've completely scrapped messaging.
The app auto-schedules you a five-minute call with your date.
So I think there's a couple of things in the community
aspect of it of, like, we will only accept people on there
who are willing to actually get verified.
And also, we have a ghosting penalty,
so if people don't turn up they get banned from the app.
And I think that's resonating for a lot of reasons right now
because the younger generation are demanding more,
the Gen Z lot, who are, like, "No, we want human connection."
Like, they want raw authenticity
in a way that I don't think the traditional dating apps have.
So you're the anti-dating app. You've taken every feature
that people hate about the traditional dating environment,
and, basically, you're trying to do the opposite.
So there's a narrative there.
Z, you've come in with a three million valuation,
and a project that's been worked on for a few months.
How can you justify that?
So part of the reason for that
is I've got a letter of intent from an investor at 4.5 million,
but I completely recognise
how much value you would all bring to the table.
How much is that investor going to bring?
150K.
Yeah, I think you should have signed that and got that money.
Then you wouldn't have needed to come here.
I think this is still an incredible opportunity, though, right?
Like, whether I walk out with money
or the chance to just have interacted with all of you.
No, I do, but I think you've come in with a valuation of three million,
and you're pre-revenue.
You can't for one minute have thought
that that wouldn't be fairly controversial.
- I agree, it IS controversial. - Yeah, yeah. So I want to find out,
what about you? What have you done from a business perspective?
Cos that would justify why.
Have you done something from a business perspective before
- and made millions from a seed of an idea? - No.
So where do you get the valuation,
and what's the reason and rationale for the valuation?
Cos it's quite punchy.
I think... so part of it is that what I'm looking for the 150 for
is really to get to 100,000 users,
and then assuming that 1% of our user base
book a therapy session once a month,
that's £25 for every therapy session that gets booked.
So that gives you 25K a month in revenue from that.
We then get between £3 and £12 per date.
And if you assume that 10% of our user base goes on one date,
you make another, like, 50 grand from just commission from that.
So, for me, it's like, yes, the valuation is high,
but I think, for me, there's a huge growth opportunity here,
and it's about looking at the future growth of the business.
- Z, I've never used a dating app. - SHE LAUGHS
And the numbers you're talking about commissions are,
in relation to where you're going,
it's very small.
Get a percentage of a date, get a percentage of therapy.
That's not going to make...
Those bits are not going to make the next unicorn.
So for that reason I'm going to let you carry on
with the other Dragons, I'm out.
Well, I really appreciate your time. Thanks, Touker.
- Z, hi. - Hi.
This is a world to me that... I just don't understand tech.
They talk about building an app at work, and I go, "Oh!"
It blows my mind.
So for that reason, I AM out, but I wish you the best of luck.
I appreciate it.
And, Z, I think this is a market
that's clearly very overcrowded.
It's not something that I would want to invest in.
So I'm going to say that I'm out,
but it's not a reflection of you
as an individual for the way you've presented.
- Thank you. - I absolutely echo that -
you've presented really, really well,
and I feel like anything that you came up with,
you will find a way to make it successful.
- I have a bit of a worry for you. - Go for it.
My worry is you are working in a space
where a lot of your competitors have to win,
so if you do find that magic combination
that says, "Ah, that's where we earn our money,"
your competitors are in a situation where they can just say,
"Oh, that's working. OK, let's do it."
That is a big risk for you.
So I'm really sorry, but I won't be investing, I'm out.
Z, this is...
I think this is a really perfect business for me
because I'm particularly interested in community, loneliness,
and how technology can solve that at scale.
Putting, like, a 150 grand bet on this, at this point...
...is just, like, too high of a bet to make.
Can I convince you of one data point?
- What's that? - Do you know Tim Ferriss?
- Yeah. - So Tim Ferriss went on the Modern Wisdom podcast last year,
and he said, "Can someone just build a dating app
"where the sole purpose is a ten-minute voice or video call?"
We did five. That's just our thought process.
But he is one of the best tech investors in Silicon Valley.
I think, even if you don't want to invest today,
and I can completely understand why,
what I would love is, if you do know Tim Ferriss,
an introduction to him and Simon Sinek,
because Simon Sinek is actually one of my biggest inspirations for this,
cos he always talks about the eight-minute call.
Hmm.
Just give me a minute.
It's a big problem.
I understand the problem.
Erm, I am going to make you an offer.
However...
...if I'm investing £150,000 in a business at this stage,
which I consider to be, with all due respect, an idea...
HE SIGHS
...I consider myself basically a partner in the business.
OK, so you asked for 150,000 for 5% of your business.
I will make you an offer to give you all of the money for...
...hmm...
...35% of the business.
HE WHISTLES
- Vampire, as you would call me. - I call everybody...
There's just no other... I just can't see another way.
- OK. - Wow, somebody just turned in their grave in the box.
Erm, would you go down to 20%?
No, I wouldn't.
30?
- 32-and-a-half and we've got a deal. - HE LAUGHS
- Come on, Steven, 30. -Be a gentleman, Steven!
Come on! Come on, Steven!
- Come on. - Go on! - I know, but it's...
Even the Dragons want you to do this. Come on.
- OK, fine, I'll do it. - Whoo!
- - OK!
- Thank you. - Thank you so much.
After a tense back and forth, Zaahirah seals the deal.
I'll see you soon.
SHE LAUGHS
And with Steven Bartlett now on board,
her dating app just found its perfect match.
It is one of the greatest opportunities
I've ever had in my life.
I think it is utterly incredible that the Dragon I want wanted me.
I'm James Martin and I'm from Harrogate in North Yorkshire.
We wanted to create something where people could enjoy
the great outdoors in a bit of luxury.
- - It's called Glawning. - - Which means?
Glawning is a lawn, isn't it?
I feel like it's glamping, but you buy the tent.
Well, they're really readily available.
We've got one of those. To be fair, it doesn't have the awning.
The what?
So the awning is the bit between the tent and the car.
- So that's an awning? - Yeah, but it goes with Glawning.
It was completely lost on you, wasn't it, Steven,
- when Peter said Glawning. - 100% lost on me.
- - I'm passionate about the business.
And I've started to invent some new products.
So this, I think, is a real exciting time
and a great time for Dragons to come on board.
Hi, Dragons. My name is James
and I'm here today seeking an investment of £60,000
in return for a 10% share of my business, Glawning.
We aim to redefine what it means to go camping.
It all started when I was on a camper van holiday with my wife.
We had the freedom of the open road,
and we had the world's most miserable awning
attached to the side of our camper van.
It was boiling hot when the sun came out,
it was freezing cold the rest of the time,
and it flapped around like a tent possessed.
Worst of all, it was really, really boring.
So we decided, "We're going to do something about it."
And we created the Glawning, which is a glamorous canvas awning
that can be attached to the side of a camper van,
caravan, motorhome or large vehicle.
It can also be used as a stand-alone tent
by zipping off the connecting canopy.
Since we launched,
we have achieved a net revenue after VAT of just over £4.3 million.
And we also have our own festival,
which attracts around 2,000 people every year.
But this is just the beginning.
We now want to build a go-to camping lifestyle brand.
We have some fantastic new products in the pipeline,
and we believe that these are going to open up massive new markets,
and we'd love for you guys to be on that journey with us.
So, Dragons,
I invite you now to join us on the Glawning revolution.
A glammed-up camping classic which attaches canvas
to camper van or caravan is the brainchild of James Martin.
Please feel free to come and take a look at the product.
- Oh, wow. - After you. - Thank you.
- This is nice. - Oh, it's quite big.
The entrepreneur is seeking £60,000
in exchange for a 10% share in his business.
- So this is a bell tent? - Yes. - So, really, the unique bit...
- Is the attachment. - ...is the attachment. It's the awning,
isn't it? Because normally that would be closed off.
Yes. Yeah.
First to take a closer look at what's on offer
is seasoned camper Jenna Meek.
- Hi, James. - Hi. - So I love caravanning.
As a kid, I used to always caravan with my parents.
And each time we got away, I'd be like,
"Are you putting the awning up?"
Because then there would be arguments
because it took so long to put this awning up.
So how difficult is this one to put up?
How long does it take?
That's one of the reasons we chose a bell tent
as the kind of base tent, because they're very easy to put up,
and it's usually about eight and half minutes
- on my own to go from start to finish. - OK.
And you mentioned this 4.3 million.
So what is the current business architecture right now?
Are you selling these at festivals
or have you got another company that is...?
You mentioned a festival.
What have you sold to make 4.3 million?
Yes. So the 4.3 million
is solely to do with the Glawning business.
So 75% of sales come online, and about 25% at festivals.
We do have a festival. We run that as a separate company.
So the first year we did that was 2017 and we had about 150 people.
And then it's just grown year on year,
and there's now about 2,000 people coming along to that.
So that has a separate turnover with its own profit.
James, do you buy these individually or separately?
You buy them separately. So you buy the base tent
and then you buy your connecting canopy.
And that varies in size.
So we do a standard-height one, which will fit on
the likes of the transporter, which is here.
And then we do a high-top version, which will go on caravans,
motorhomes and bigger vehicles.
And we now do an inflatable one, which we've just launched
but we haven't got them in stock yet,
but we've kind of sold half of them already.
OK. So when did you start this?
I came up with the product in 2013.
At the time, I was actually running a start-up law firm,
- so my focus kind of wasn't on this. - OK.
So are these sort of like side hustles
for you and you're a lawyer by day?
So that... At the start it was side hustle.
- Then it started to do pretty well. - Right.
- So you're now doing this full-time? - Yes.
- - James. - Yeah.
So I'm assuming, um,
- you're buying this in from China? - Yeah.
So there's no barriers to entry on this?
If I wanted to do this, I pick up the phone,
and within 12 weeks, I'd have it in my warehouse?
Yeah. Well, we do have design rights on this particular configuration.
Yeah, but your design right
might be you've got 24 inches higher...
- Something similar, I can get. - Mm-hm. Yeah.
I mean, there have been people who have tried to copy it.
I'm not going to copy it.
I'm just going to ring up my team in China
and I pick the ones I want. Easy as that.
- - James. - Yes. - On the 4.3 million
in revenue you've generated over the last... Is it ten,
roughly ten years? Just over ten years?
- Yeah. - What's the net profit been?
- The cumulative net profit? - About 150,000.
OK. Um, so...
Hmm.
So when I...when I look at the business,
it doesn't look very investible,
because if I were to invest £60,000,
say it was for 10% or in that region,
it would take some time based on the profits being generated
in the business to ever get a return.
So how does a return happen in this business
if the cumulative net profit over the last decade has been 150K?
So my plan is now to build
the business on innovation, primarily.
We have some great new products in the pipeline.
So we've got one that we've just recently released,
which is the inflatable version of the Glawning.
We've already sold half of those,
and we should sell the others fairly quickly.
I also have a...
...have applied for a patent for a new design,
which I think is going to be a game-changer.
So there's future innovation coming, which I'm betting on?
- Yes. - Versus what I see here in the business in front of me.
I always... It's always a bit of an amber flag for me
when an entrepreneur says to not invest
in the thing in front of me,
but in something that is coming.
For me, I'm always like, "Ah... I want to invest in..."
- I can tell you about it. - Yeah.
As I say, the patent that we've just applied for,
um, is something that I think will take this to the next level.
- - What is that patent? - So it's for a roof box,
which has an inflatable awning integrated inside of it.
You open the roof box, you plug into your 12 volt,
you press a button and the awning inflates out of the side of the van.
So it's taking the pain points of having
to get the awning out of its bag, connect the pump up,
pump it up, line it all up with the van, connect it.
All of that is kind of done.
And is that a patent or a design patent?
- That's a patent. - That's a patent. - These are just design rights.
- But that's a patent. - - See, James...
...that's so much more exciting than this.
- Yes. - Yeah. - Yeah.
I wish you could have come in and at least demonstrated that.
- Yeah, well... - Even if it was in a prototype shape or form,
because that... that could be investable.
- Yeah. - But this is... this is just a tent.
- Mm-hm. - It's tough.
Where are you in your patent?
- We've applied for it. - And when?
Yesterday.
JAMES LAUGHS
- Right. OK. - Well, I wanted to get it in, have it applied for.
So you have no idea whether or not somebody else
is going to pop their head up
and said, "Actually did that about ten years ago."
No.
James, it's, um...
There's quite a lot of frustration here.
And it also feels a little bit disingenuous
because you only applied for a patent yesterday.
So it feels like, "I've got this inflatable idea.
"Let's quickly pivot.
"Let's get this invention because I know they like patents.
"I'm just going to have a go." That's how it feels.
It feels a bit disingenuous, the pitch, now...
- OK. - ...with what you've just said.
Why is it...? If this is something that you've been working on
and something you've been thinking about,
why did you apply yesterday for a patent?
Well, I did... I did bring it forward to yesterday
so I'd have the pattern applied for.
But I wonder whether your pitch could have been much better, James.
It could have been, you know, "I've spent the last eight years
"of my life creating the perfect awning,
"and I've given up being a lawyer to focus on this.
"But I've got a seed of an incredible idea
"that I think is going to make millions -
"and it's called the inflatable roof box awning.
- "I've now got a patent, Dragons." - Yeah.
And all of a sudden I've got a different...
I've got a different pitch.
- Yeah. - I genuinely... I think we'd be fighting over who invested.
- Sadly, I'm going to say that I'm out. - OK.
But I...I encourage you, if you do get the patent,
please come straight to me and I'll deal with you directly.
Thank you, Peter.
- - James, I always sit here trying to figure out
whether the entrepreneur is selling me
a measurable past or a hypothetical future.
- Yeah. - So I'm trying to piece together,
from what you're saying,
what I would actually be investing in,
because it's not in the Den today.
I'm a big fan of the inflatable idea.
If I tried to put up a tent like this,
it would end up looking like a sleeping bag.
But for me, as an investment proposition,
it's not for me. So I'm going to say that I'm out.
OK. Thank you, Steven.
James, um, I think it's quite cool.
I think it's... I think it's actually quite...
It's one of those innovations
you think, "Why didn't somebody do it before?"
It feels so obvious.
- Yeah, it's very simple. - Very simple. Absolutely.
Had you been further down the route of the patent,
I might well have been more inclined to invest, to be honest,
but right now I haven't got a clue.
I haven't got a clue whether or not tomorrow 27 people go,
"Yeah, no, I did that ten years ago."
And neither have you.
So I'm afraid I won't be investing.
And I'm out. But I really do wish you all the best, I really do.
Thank you.
- James, um... - Hi, Touker.
It's a shame, because...
...innovation came quite late in the pitch.
So, today, unfortunately, it's not investable.
But I wish you all the best, but I'm out.
- - James, hi.
So I really wish I could have helped you do your pitch
because you came in and you said,
"I've got this tent and I've got this festival
- "but the festival is a different business." - Mm-hm.
Where actually, if you'd come in and been
like, "My vision is to own this... this world,"
and you've got this community of 2,000 people
at your fingertips, at a festival, in real life,
I'm like, "Oh, my God, there's something there."
And you're not seeing the two together,
on how that is the start of what could be something huge,
because you cannot replicate community.
I think for me it's about going away and understanding
with this community that you've already got,
start there, ask them questions.
"Hey, how can we develop this? How can we make this one better?
"Who's interested in the inflatable?"
And try and understand how can you be that camper van business
of solution, and make it easier for the customers
that want this life that you're trying to sell.
Because I want it. I've been looking at camper vans.
Then you will just fly because I think this is really cool
and I would want my camper van to look like this when I do get one.
But it's not an investment for me, so I am out.
- OK. - Best of luck. - Thank you. Thank you very much.
- Thank you, Dragons. - Good luck. - Appreciate it.
- Good luck. - Cheers.
That's it for James. The Dragons admired his creativity,
but felt the focus had been on the wrong product.
And he leaves the Den with nothing.
Yes, that was intense.
Peter gave a great alternative pitch,
which, in hindsight, would be lovely to have done,
but it's hard to know what they're going to focus on
and what they're going to build on.
So... hey-ho.
Onwards and upwards.
- Do you want some water? - Yeah, let's do this.
- I'm Connor. - I'm Harry.
And we're two of the founders of Club Cultured.
- Cheers. - Cheers, mate.
And we make delicious, premium, high-quality ferments and pickles.
We're in the Den. We're going to get the deal we want.
The missus don't like the smell of kimchi on my clothes all the time.
But it's all right.
- We're dedicated. - We're here. We're doing the work.
Kimchi.
- Oh. Fermented foods. - Fermented foods. Yeah.
- Very good for the gut microbiome. - Very good.
- You ready, bro? - Come on, mate.
- Love you. - Love you, too.
We've done our research on the Dragons,
and we know they're into gut health. We know they're big foodies
and have made a series of food investments before.
Here we go.
This is what we've been waiting for.
So we're just super excited to get into the Den
to share our products and our business with them.
- You all right, Dragons? - How's it going, Dragons?
- Hello. - What if we told you there's a fermented food brand
that produces proteins, sides and sauces?
Well, we're the founders of that brand, Club Cultured.
I'm Harry, that's Connor, and our journey began
in our business partner James's back garden,
where we turned an old fridge into a DIY fermenter
and made our first batch of tempeh.
Since then, we have built a delicious range
of premium plant-based ferments and pickles
crafted by a chef who's trained in Michelin-star kitchens,
that deliver bold flavours and known gut health benefits.
We believe food that does good should taste amazing, too.
That's why our naturally fermented and pickled products,
such as our umami-rich kimchi to tangy krauts and punchy sauces,
are designed to slot effortlessly into your daily meals,
making gut health easy and enjoyable.
We've produced and sold over 200,000 kilos,
generated 1.4 million in sales and supplied
some of the UK's biggest food brands.
After maxing out our second site,
we moved into our brand-new, 4,500 square foot
fermentation facility in Norfolk.
We make everything in-house, giving us total control
over quality, flavour and consistency.
We're now forecasting to hit 4.5 million in sales in 2028,
with a deep pipeline spanning across manufacturing,
food service and retail.
We're here today to ask for a £50,000 investment
in exchange for 3.5% equity into our brand.
So Connor's prepared some delicious samples for you guys.
We have some tempeh sushi rolls and some kimchi pancakes,
and there's some little samples
- of the pickles and ferments for you to try as well. - Great.
A range of gut-friendly pickles and ferments,
including tempeh, a traditional Indonesian staple
made from soybeans,
is the proposition from Harry Watmough and Connor Jordan.
I'm not sure what everyone's spice tolerance is,
but the red one obviously has some chilli in it,
so don't go eating the whole pot in one go.
The pair are seeking £50,000
in exchange for a 3.5% share in their company.
- That smell. - Yeah. - That is amazing. - - Thank you.
It was... I bought it in Selfridges.
LAUGHTER
- I'll show you the bottle if you want. - Eau de kimchi.
- - Yeah, eau de kimchi.
Their products may smell and taste the part.
It's really good.
But will their enterprise prove just as appetising?
- Connor, Harry. - Hello, Deborah.
That tempeh is absolutely delicious.
- So you probably know I'm plant based. - Yeah.
This looks like the contents of my fridge.
That's what we like to hear!
But that tempeh is, I think, the best I've ever, ever tasted.
- Wow. - Thank you. - Thank you. - But I don't understand.
Do you sell the tempeh, or have you just giving that to me?
We supply... The ones in the sleeves there is tempeh.
So we actually... When we first discovered tempeh,
we taught ourselves how to make it,
and after a while, we didn't know what we were doing -
we was losing batches, we was working night shifts,
taking it home. Nothing was working.
So it was like, "We need to find the tempeh Yoda."
So we went to Indonesia for a week's training,
learned how to make it properly,
and we pride ourselves on making Indonesian-grade tempeh.
Really doing homage to the quality of that product.
And if you look at the reviews on our website,
it's consistently the same comments.
Like, people say, "It's the best tempeh I've ever had."
Connor, Harry. Um, really interesting business.
- I'm a big gut microbiome fan. - Yes.
What are your backgrounds
and what brought you to the gut microbiome world?
I'll let you go first.
So we've known each other since we were five years old.
But my background is I didn't do particularly great at school,
but my love was cooking.
So I went to college
and done three years professional chef's diploma.
And then I got work experience in the Ritz Hotel in London.
And I ended up going there two weeks after I left college at 18.
- I stayed there for six years. - And then my background...
So, um, I also left school at 16, got a job at a stockbrokers,
worked there for six years - and our other business partner, James,
we're best friends from Year Seven at school.
We worked with each other from 19 to 22 on the same desk.
We realised that life wasn't for us. We went travelling for 18 months
where we sort of first discovered kimchi,
tempeh and we just fell in love with it.
And then when we came back to England, we could just see
that everything was really processed and we felt like,
you know, there's a huge opportunity for fermented foods.
- And we went for it. - So if I'm looking at this business
from a financial perspective,
what year does it really begin for you?
2020 was the first year we did manufacturing.
- OK. So let's go from 2020. - Yeah. - Give me the revenue and net. - Yeah.
- So it was 90K revenue, a loss of 44K. - 44? - Yeah.
The following year was 275K, a loss of 73.
The following year after that was 342K and a loss of 123.
And the year after that was 359K and a loss of 104K.
And then last year it was 250K and a loss of 83.
You've lost...
...probably almost £400,000 since the business's inception.
- Yeah. - Where has that money come from? - So we've had investors.
So we've raised just under half a million since we started.
And for kitting out our last space, we took out a loan ourselves
to fund that kit-out for our move to Norfolk.
So you've raised 500K from investors?
- Yep. - And how much of the business do you guys still own?
- 56%. - 56%. Between the three of you? - Yeah.
OK. And you've taken a loan of what?
So that last loan, it was 225K,
and the outstanding amount we have left is 174,000.
And how much cash have you got in the bank?
- About 85K. - OK.
And what are you forecasting for this year?
This year, 450,000 and a net profit of 22.5.
And how are you tracking so far for this year?
We've done about 75K so far this year,
but we actually had a new big customer come visit us two days ago,
and we have some big contracts lined up for them.
- - So, for me,
it looks like the business is going down rather than up.
So what's the goal? What are you trying to do?
So for us, it's being the leader in the industry
in UK manufacturing for these products.
But you need to do about 100 X compared to
- where you are, don't you, to be able to do that? - Yeah.
But we're confident we can build our brand position
- as well as on the food service side. - But my big thing here
is that if you want to try and get half a million in sales...
- Yeah. - ...you haven't got the cash.
Well, we're confident with this contract coming in,
that will enable us to grow and bring more...
But how will you do that for...? How are you going to pay for it?
Well, we're confident with what we've got at the moment.
And we have other investors
who have said before, when it gets to a stage...
No, that's the point, though.
So what does that mean? So I invest today 50K, 3.5%.
Other investors put more money in.
I'm going to go down, aren't I? I'm going to dilute.
So how much money are you looking to raise, in essence,
over the next 12 months?
Well, this would be the only money we raise over the next 12 months.
- That's not enough. - I think it will be enough.
It's not enough. It definitely isn't enough.
Because you've raised 500 - you've nearly spent all of that.
You're out of cash.
You've only got cash in your business
because you've got £170,000 of a loan.
You have no cash. You're currently insolvent.
Well... At today, our current cash position is £85,000.
Yeah, I know, but you owe 174.
- You can't afford to pay the loan back. - Yeah.
So I'm putting in £50,000 into a business
that already hasn't got enough cash to pay back its debts.
It's not a good... good investment, guys.
So I'm going to have to say, sadly, that I'm out.
But I wish you every bit of luck.
And your product does taste beautiful.
- Stunning. - Thank you, Peter. - Great chef.
Thank you very much.
- - Can I ask when you're going to be making £400,000 profit?
- In a single year? - No - as a cumulative.
Uh, so by 2026,
we're forecasting one million and a net profit of 100,
and then the following year, 2.5 million and a net of 375.
- So between those next two and a bit years. - OK.
So in two years you'll have made up your losses?
- Yeah. - OK. Um...
I really, really want to invest in this.
Actually, I'm going to be quiet.
Oh!
- - Hi. I'll just tell you where I am, because I think...
...I think you guys are great,
and you've done everything to make a beautiful, beautiful product.
But you've got a lot of experts in here
that are probably very clued up on this stuff.
I am probably your more mass market customer here,
because I go into Holland & Barrett, and I don't know what I go in for,
and then I walk out with 20 prebiotics.
I think as an investor, to actually help you,
I wouldn't really be able to do much.
So for that reason I am out. But I wish you all the best.
- Thank you. - Thank you, Jenna.
- - Harry and Connor...
...I love the fact that you are very knowledgeable.
But today, you've not convinced me
to say this is an investable opportunity at 3.5%.
For that reason, guys, I'm not going to invest
- and I'm out. - Thank you, Touker. - Thank you for your comments.
- - I'm also going to tell you where I am.
My fridge is full of this stuff.
And, um, I had a little bit of a thought on the brand Club Cultured
because I realised that all of the items that I have,
the kimchi that I have in my fridge,
looks authentic to its native country.
And I think this has been branded as if it's a mass market product.
But kimchi isn't quite there yet.
So there's something about looking... it looking authentic
to its native country that has made it more compelling,
that's made it look real versus it looking like a... rave.
And I see your business
that's... that has historically lost money every single year
and is in decline from a revenue perspective.
So I'm going to say that I'm out, but I wish you the very best.
- Cheers, Steven. - Thank you for your feedback.
Um, I actually completely disagree with Steven.
Ouch.
Oddly, there are plenty of Korean looking kimchis around,
but the one that really has broken through
isn't a Korean looking kimchi.
- Yeah. - It looks like a pickled product.
- Yeah. - You know, so... So it's sort of recognisable.
And funnily enough, I think it's going to be more powerful
to move it out of this, the sort of...
The shelf that is those things that other countries eat
- and move them onto mainstream. - Yeah.
So it clearly looks like something
that everybody should have in their fridge.
I shouldn't be worrying, I shouldn't be thinking about
whether or not it's good for my gut or not.
I'm not buying it as a medicine -
I'm buying it because it tastes great and I want it in my fridge.
Um...
The thing is...
I do love your story, and I love...
I love where this has come from and I think that will come through
to the consumer and that's, you know, that's really important.
I think...
I think there's a problem, though.
And the problem is you only own 56% between the three of you.
Who's your single biggest other shareholder?
So, two guys who came on previously.
And what, so they own between them?
- 7%. - How much? - 7% each. - 7% each.
No, I ca-... Uh.
I don't like...
I don't like the whole pattern.
And I see this pattern of what's going ahead,
and this is how much cash you're going to need
versus how much equity you have already given away.
- Yeah. - You are going to be diluted.
I mean, I can do things that stops me being diluted,
but that isn't fair either.
That's not the type of... That's not what I want to do.
- So, no... - We always knew that we were... - No, stop talking.
- I know what you're doing here. - ...going to be diluted.
You're just keeping me talking so that I don't go out.
I know what you're doing.
I think it's good to keep you talking!
- It is, actually, I'll give you that. - The smaller size...
Guys, guys, guys, guys, guys, you're great.
All I can do is tell you that is a really, really good product.
- Thank you. - Thank you.
And I will be a customer, but I won't be an investor.
- No worries. - So, I'm out.
- Thank you very much. - Thank you very much.
- Good luck, guys. - Cheers. - Good luck.
Harry and Connor must leave the Den empty-handed.
She was tempted by their tempeh,
but, ultimately, Deborah Meaden couldn't be persuaded
to take a punt on the pickle loving pair.
It is what it is. HE MUMBLES
- Still doing it. - Still doing it.
We'll show 'em.
Obviously we didn't get the deal like we hoped,
but lots of great feedback.
What's next for us is proving the Dragons wrong
and making them regret their decision.
My name's Sam Beaney and my business is Kibu.
While Kibu's a product that people have seen before,
it's quite unique in how we're doing things.
- Oh, this looks fun. - Mm.
Headphones for kids, but I feel like there's something
more unique to it than that.
- Is it interchangeable? - Yeah.
- Build your own headphones. - Oh, I like that.
It's so great when kids get the product and they get to try it,
and their feedback is just...
It really motivates you.
It'd be amazing to pitch in front of the Dragons
and show them what Kibu's all about.
Hi, Dragons. My name is Sam Beaney, the founder of Kibu.
The children's headphones you build, repair, recycle.
And today, I'm seeking £65,000
in exchange for 10% equity in my business.
Every year in the UK, over 18 million pairs of headphones
and earbuds are thrown away.
Most aren't easily fixed, especially not by kids.
Yet kids are curious, capable and love to build.
So why do we keep designing tech that when it breaks,
it gets binned?
At Kibu, we're doing things differently.
The Kibu headphones come as a simple kit
that children or fun-loving adults can build themselves.
No screws, no glue, no fiddly wires,
just simple parts...
...that snap together.
Like that.
And if a part breaks...
...you only need to replace that part, helping to reduce waste.
Each pair is 3D printed in Hackney, London, in less than 30 minutes,
with our proprietary 3D printing code that doesn't compromise
on speed or quality.
The main material used is a recycled bioplastic
that comes from plants like corn,
and when the headphones reach the end of their life,
the parts can be returned and recycled into new products.
With your investment and experience, we can scale faster,
develop new products, and shape a generation of builders,
not just consumers.
Thank you.
A kit for kids to make their own headphones
is the offering from Sam Beaney.
Lovely. Like my chosen colour. Thank you.
- It's got to be green. - It's got to be green.
He's seeking £65,000 for a 10% share in his business.
Will Sam's sonic start-up hit the right note with the Dragons?
Sam, super interesting.
So what really is the crux of this business?
Are they aspiring to be really good headphones,
or are they aspiring to be something that teaches kids
how to build things and to have a bit of fun?
Yeah, I mean, we obviously want them to be great headphones,
but our main goal is not to compete with the big players
when it comes to sound or things like that.
Ultimately, we're trying to deliver an experience
to children and families.
You know, it's being able to build your headphones yourselves,
and we hope that then when they break,
kids are then more likely to want to repair it
and see the headphones go through their life.
And is it just you involved in the business at the moment
or have you got a team?
Yeah, so it's mainly me, but there's...
I have two main partners who are helping me,
so - businesses, rather, that are helping me.
So, one is a 3D printing manufacturing company
that I used to work for,
and another is an award-winning design agency.
And what are the total sales, and when did you begin?
So, we did our kick-starter in April last year,
and our total sales are about £25,000 to date.
Yeah, and sold over 450 pairs.
Sam, hi. So, how much do they sell for?
So we sell them for £39.
OK, and what do they cost you to make?
They cost us £10.40.
OK. And at the moment, are you only on a...
...on the crowd-fund platform?
Are you already selling into retail or direct to the consumer?
Yes, so we're selling now.
We're selling direct to consumers through our website,
and we'd love to get into retail and really try and explore
other avenues as well.
So £40, that's expensive.
You're limiting your market in retail because of that price.
I can't see this in what I call mainstream toy shops, really.
OK.
But I think while the upfront price is slightly higher,
the value over the long term...
You know, we were speaking to parents
and they were having to replace their headphones, like, every year
- or even less than that. - Mm.
Yeah, it may cost you more upfront,
but if parts break, you know,
there's this route here to fix it and make the headphones last longer.
Sam, hi. I love it.
Like, I really, really love it.
I love... There's so many things I really like.
I opened this up and I was like, "Oh, my God!"
My inner child is so excited to build that -
because it is doing exactly what you're trying to do.
It's helping kids get creative,
understand how to make inventions,
and, yeah, just really, really love it.
A few questions. If I went onto your social channel now,
what have you done so far on social?
Like if I'm looking at your Instagram or TikTok,
what am I seeing?
So you're seeing mainly reels and posts showing the headphones,
and then this sort of content that tends to be more popular,
where the product is used.
- So, uh, guess this song kind of, for example. - Yeah.
But we're trying to really get into that, you know,
the organic engine, I guess, that reels and TikTok and...
Has any of the content gone off?
Like, have you got a lot of momentum?
We've had posts that have, um...
- ...you know, done 50,000 kind of views. - That's good.
That sort of thing.
But I think the challenge we have is the average number of times
people are seeing that content needs to be six, seven times.
They're seeing it once in this organic post, they think,
"Oh, that's interesting", and we're not -
because we don't have the capital yet - we can't, like,
- show it to them again and again and try... - You can.
So this is why I'm asking. You basically, you find...
You've got a video with 50,000 views,
- you've got a video of 100,000 views, that's amazing. - Yeah.
You just got to keep creating more and more and more of that content.
I built my own business to like 5 million
basically off organic content.
- Like, you've got to keep going with it. - Yeah, yeah.
Thank you. Yeah, that's great, advice like that.
You know, that's what we really need.
Sam. Hello.
- Hello. - Um...
When I started building computers when I was a teenager,
I had no knowledge of it, but I loved it.
- Yeah. - And I think this is something that kids would just love to do.
So tell me about you.
- You worked for this company. - Yeah.
Who are the company?
It's this company called - Batch. - Works and they mass-produce
things using 3D printing.
And you left them to start this business, or...?
- Where are you now? - So it was really a collaboration.
- So they are an equity holder... - Oh, OK.
...along with a design agency,
- and we actually see that as a strength so... - How much do they own?
They own 39%.
Oh, wow.
- And you own? - 33%.
Oh, that means there's somebody else in here.
So, yeah, there's a design agency who own 20%.
And who owns the other 8%?
So we have a web developer who owns, like, 4%,
and then there's 2.5% that's owned by a brand agency.
And then I believe the rest is...
...just a pool kind of left.
This is an unusual situation,
- because you're not the majority shareholder. - Yeah.
And if you were to receive an offer in here today,
- presumably you've agreed with your majority shareholder... - Yep.
...what your parameters of an offer are.
- Is that right? - Yes.
And would it be from a...
Would everybody dilute or does it come from your shareholding?
- Everyone's diluted equally. - Everyone would dilute.
All right, I'm going to tell you where I am. There's something...
There is something that worries me about it, Sam, and I...
And you're... I really like you.
I think the design is really, really lovely.
- There's something that just isn't hitting the mark for me. - Mm.
And it's, you know, I don't like the structure of the business.
- Yeah. - I really do like to be talking to a majority shareholder.
- Yeah. - Um...
Just because I like to get a feel of where they are in all of this,
you know, and understand if you've got a decent order,
how much priority that would get.
There's loads of questions I'd like to ask a majority shareholder,
but they're not here today, so I'm afraid I won't be investing.
- I'm out. - Thank you, Deborah.
Sam, I really...
The minute I saw it and the minute you explained what it was,
I really fell in love with the idea of it.
But on a personal level, maybe because I don't have kids...
- Yeah. - Um...
It hasn't personally resonated with me in the same way.
So I'm going to say that I'm out, but I hope you're successful.
Thank you. Appreciate it.
- So I'll tell you where I am. - Yeah.
You are credible, right?
And the product's great.
However, this needs a lot of money.
- Yeah. - I think you need a lot more than 65 to get this out there.
So for that reason, I'm out.
Thank you, Touker.
Um...
I feel like I'm in the same place.
Um...
...because it's just very difficult to find a way to monetise it.
Um...
Have I missed something? Why you don't think it's monetisable, Peter?
Have I missed the profit on the product or...?
Yeah, the scale at the volume, at £40.
You think that's too expensive?
It definitely is, yeah. I mean, these products to kids are 9.99.
Yeah... But I think more parents are becoming...
Are caring more and more about the products
they give to their children.
I get that, but that's a lot of cash to spend.
Sam, I'll tell you where I'm at.
So I've loved this from the start
and I do think there is something here,
because the thing is, with kids, it's cult.
It is word of mouth, and you get that right,
it really, really works.
What I'm brilliant at is building a brand that people want to buy into,
regardless of what that product even is,
and that's what I feel like I can help with.
And I think if you're willing to work,
like, really, really, really, really hard,
like, harder than you've ever worked
to get this where it needs to be, this could be really huge.
So I am going to make you an offer.
You asked for £65,000 for 10%.
My offer is going to be all of the money...
But I want 15% of the business.
OK. Thank you very much.
Um...
Yes, Sam...
I think Jenna's given you a really, really good offer,
given the structure, at 15%.
But that's going to be tough for me,
because I think you're going to need a lot of work here
and a lot of money to make this business a success.
Yeah.
Obviously equity is important and it matters,
but I think having a small part of a big thing is...
...is better than a big part of nothing.
Peter, what about we share?
Would you consider that?
Yeah, I would consider that.
I'll tell you what, I'm going to do two things.
- I'm going to give you an offer of all of the money... - Mm.
...65,000...
...for 20% of the business.
Or I would be willing to share it with Jenna
and give you half the money for 10%.
So I'd have 10%, Jenna would have 10%
- because I think I would have to do so much work... - Yeah.
- ...and Jenna brings so much to this party. - Yeah.
OK. Um...
I think, yeah, I'd love to have both of you on board, that deal.
- Yay! - Fantastic.
APPLAUSE
- Cool. - Well done. - Thank you. - Yeah, you were great. Well done.
- Well done. - Thank you. - Well done.
- Yeah, fantastic, well done. - Appreciate it. - Thank you.
Success for Sam,
who secures the backing of two Dragons
who will help ensure his product makes waves
in the world of children's headphones.
I didn't quite expect to get one Dragon, let alone two.
Just... Yeah, amazing.
- We're in business together. - Yes.
I think it could be really, really exciting.
- Really good. - OK, I need to go and plug in.
Does he look like a Cyberman?
You don't watch Doctor Who, do you? He looks like a Cyberman.
Yeah, I definitely don't think they fit.
THEY LAUGH
Good luck.
Next time...
That one definitely isn't rubbish.
You're on fire with your puns, Peter.
I couldn't agree less with Susie.
Oh, really?
This is going to be ridiculous.
I just know it's going to be ridiculous.
I'm not looking forward to your questions, but I'm here now.
- Oh, my... - What? - Wow... - I know.
I'll come and cry on your shoulder later.
- Ooh! - I have no idea why I'm engaging in this.
I hate this game.
THEY LAUGH