SPEAKER 1: Being in a relationship
is difficult enough.
Add to it addiction and you have a perfect recipe
for tornado to come that you're not going to be able to stop.
KEN SEELEY: There's that old saying, misery loves company.
SPEAKER 2: I can't see it being anything
other than a nightmare.
SPEAKER 3: The worst hell you have
ever had in your entire life.
KEN SEELEY: Couples in their addiction
just tear each other apart.
You were done with that.
We were done with that.
And you brought it back.
The dishonesty--
[bleep].
I'm going.
I'm done.
The manipulation--
The fighting--
I got-- it's actually your fault!
And the codependency is deep.
SPEAKER 4: The only thing harder than fighting
an addiction is fighting codependency at the same time.
KEN SEELEY: They're playing that dance of death
and they're killing each other.
JOEY: The first time we ever hung out we used Meth.
That's bad ass, baby.
ERIKA: You like it?
JOEY: Yeah.
I've been using Meth since I was 14.
It has been almost three years since I've seen my daughter.
There's not a drug in the world that would hide that pain.
Joey has been using Meth for many years.
Joey has stolen things from me.
JOEY: I got some bad dope.
An orthopedic surgeon was going to cut his arm off--
What all happened to Erica and Joey is more destruction.
KAREN: They're really horrible for each other.
KEN SEELEY: It doesn't get worse than it is right now.
Will you please accept this gift of treatment?
Don't follow me with the [bleep] cameras.
ERIKA: No matter what, at the end of the day,
we're all we have.
ERIKA: I'm going to go for some rocks.
[music playing]
I'm Joey.
I'm 34.
I'm Erika.
I'm 33.
And we're from Albuquerque, New Mexico.
Albuquerque is one of a kind city, fast, hard--
Scary.
--rough.
But it's got its beauty for sure.
Joey and I started dating a year and a half ago.
We met on a dating site online.
It took literally like three sentences.
And we were meeting up, hey, what's up?
You want to hang out?
Yep.
mm-hmm
BETHANN: Joey's always had girlfriends.
So it was Erika.
I thought, why did he have to go ahead
and meet somebody again this quick.
I love Joey's energy no matter what gets in his path.
Oh, the hell, Vand.
ERIKA: She's psycho.
KAREN: Erika is absolutely talented.
And she's got this will to do great things.
But what's getting in the way for Erika
is she always has a boyfriend to pull her down.
No.
Where?
Over here.
This is our heart.
I put it together for you.
- That's bad ass, baby. - You like it?
Yeah.
It used to have an E and a J in the middle but--
My relationship with Erica I could
see myself being with her forever because love her.
I didn't even know.
When did you do that?
It's been a while.
I mean, absolutely, it's a forever love.
(SINGING) Baby, I just need a ride.
You see I'm walking and I'm lonely and I don't know why.
I would love to spend the rest of my life with Joey,
but he tends to find comfort in darkness.
And it scares me.
When they are having a good time, it's a great time.
They go rock hunting together.
They have the dogs.
And also then, they enjoy the drugs together too.
Let me take a hit because I'm not really
feeling like jamming at all.
We've been living a dark life for a long time.
It's what we know.
I love you.
I love you too.
Joey and I are addicted to methamphetamine.
We need it to start our day and get out of bed.
We need it to be normal, to fit into everyday life.
And it sucks.
We use an eight ball a day easily, which is 3.5 grams.
If we're shooting, it goes up to 5 grams.
Mostly, we smoke it out of a glass bubble.
Sometimes, we'll do a hot rail.
You Snort it through a hot glass tube through your nose.
We spend all our money on drugs from $50 to $150 worth a day.
It's really good, dope.
So basically we're happy.
Ready to start our day.
Yep.
It engulfs our life.
JOEY: It makes me feel alive again.
Do the same thing over and over.
And then we do it all over again, chase that sack.
We pay for our addiction by labor jobs,
going to the scrapyard.
BETHANN: Joey will work scrapping.
And that's something I wouldn't want to do.
It's hard.
But he does make money.
He said put all the copper with the brass and everything.
And it was all unclean.
He still gave me 18
A yellow clean.
[bleep], yeah.
I've sold videos and pictures online.
If there's money to be made, we'll make it.
CASSIDY: Joey has stolen things from me--
electric guitar, bass guitar.
He used those items to pawn to get Meth.
When I first met Joey, he was telling me about what
a great contractor he was.
And that's when I found out he was full of baloney.
He doesn't know anything.
They're always short of money.
BARBARA: He's thin.
He's losing his teeth.
And he had a cellulitis.
He had to go to the hospital.
My brother almost lost his arm.
I happened to get some bad dope, shot it up in my arm.
And my arm blew up like a balloon and it went septic.
And it went into my heart.
BARBARA: An orthopedic surgeon was going to cut his arm off,
so they worked on him for a week.
Three different surgeries.
There's a flesh eating disease.
It was this close from killing me.
Because of her addiction, Erika
has lost friends and family and her ability
to work and make money.
KAREN: She's lost her home, her hope, her self-worth.
She's lost everything.
We did go like a week without it once, remember that?
Eight days, yeah.
Yeah.
When we don't have it, we fight.
We're down each other's throats.
When things don't go Erika's way, she gets violent.
BARBARA: Love?
No.
There's no love.
They bonded because of drugs.
There's no way that that's going to end.
It's just going to continue and get worse and worse.
We have like an unspoken pact that no matter what, at the end
of the day, we're all we have.
I like that.
I just don't want my brother to die.
[siren wailing]
Yeah.
Meth is like the first thing when I wake up in the morning
sucks to think like that, but it's become like that,
you know.
Because if I don't have it, I feel
as if I cannot do anything.
ERIKA: Looking for drugs, it's a daily struggle for us.
Call [bleep].
I'm sorry.
The person you are trying to reach cannot come to the phone.
How about [bleep]?
Check Kurt or Stun.
Please, try again later.
Every day we spend our time, energy, and our--
Money.
--our money looking for the Meth.
And it's disgusting, honestly.
Hey, what's up, dude?
Chillin'.
Hey, I'm just--
I'm on my way to the scrapyard, but could I come see you?
All right.
Cool.
All right.
Does he sell like good stuff?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
JOEY: This is a desolate area.
ERIKA: Dude, only the strong survive in the North Valley,
bro.
So you guys stop it right here,
and then I'm going to go up and park over there.
JOEY: Is that cool? Alright, cool.
OK. is he going?
Hey, hey.
I got to take my mic off.
I have to take mine off. - You do?
Yeah.
Why?
Just because, dude,
The cops get called like every five minutes.
I mean, recently, I know some guy got shot in his stomach.
And his girlfriend, she got beat with an inch of her life
and her heart ruptured because this guy stomped on her chest
so much.
It's crazy.
This place is scary and not good.
I'm just thinking I'm in the worst situation.
I'm freaking out.
[Unintelligible]
Over here, everybody is an addict.
The cops get called like every five minutes.
I mean, this place is scary and not good.
When I pick up the Meth, I get so excited because now,
we can get high the whole day.
We're cool.
We're good.
We got it.
ERIKA: Got that for $20.
It's really good.
It's better than any other dope.
And it's the last of it.
Yeah.
And he can't get any more, so we're like yeah, thank you.
The agreement was we always used together.
Just give it to me now, just give it to me.
You can wait.
And I think that Joey uses a little more than I do.
I think I do.
It doesn't mean I'm worse or better.
I didn't say that.
Let's go.
I feel like Joey and Erika have love for each other.
Addiction is lonely.
And I'm sure that's nice to have each other.
But I don't know if they're in love.
All right.
We're almost ready here.
I'm kind of paranoid with that cop.
Where? There ain't no--
Our relationship consists of using drugs, a lot of drugs.
But not only drugs.
We love to be together with our dogs.
It doesn't matter where we are.
We still love to be with each other.
ERIKA: Right now, a friend is letting us rent
out a shed in his backyard.
This shed, we have been in for about a month.
For a year, almost, we were living
in my van in my grandma's on the side of her house
until we got kicked out because grandma
doesn't really like Erika.
Extension cord gives us heat and light, which is nice.
Let's power it up.
It is very small.
But it's like our little domain.
Pictures on the walls gives it somewhat of a homey feeling.
But it's never going to be a home.
And a home is something I've always, always longed for.
KAREN: Erika was born here in the city of Albuquerque
and I had some complications with her
so we were in the hospital several days.
But Erika's biological father partied the whole time
I was laying in the hospital and drained our little bit
of savings that we had.
So needless to say, that relationship
didn't last long after that.
I left Erika's biological father when
she was eight or nine days old and moved to Texas,
where I met her stepfather.
And we started our lives together.
I had Erika she was six months old, and he had his daughter,
she was seven months old.
And together, we had two more children, a girl and a boy.
ERIKA: When I was growing up, my mom and I were close.
I remember when she'd be laying on the couch,
I would sit in like the curve of her legs.
And it was my basket is what I called it.
I remember trying on her clothes and like just
wanting to be just like my mom.
KAREN: Erika loved the outdoors.
She collected everything from outside, spiders and frogs
and geckos and just anything that she could find.
So we had to implement a no creatures in the house rule.
ERIKA: When I was growing up, I wanted to be a singer
because I could express myself.
Singing made me feel free.
KAREN: When Erica was 10 years old
was really when our marriage started to fall apart.
We definitely struggled financially.
I was bartending, just trying to make money
any possible way that I could.
ERIKA: My mom and stepdad started fighting often.
And it escalated.
The first 10 years of our marriage were really great.
And the last five years of our marriage
was a lot like grinding metal.
Our marriage got very volatile.
Erika heard and saw a lot more fighting and arguing
and chaos than she should have.
My siblings would come crawl in my bed
and we would listen to them fight through the vents.
And I would put my hands over their ears
and I would tell them that it wasn't their fault.
I noticed that she changed, her crowd changed.
She started running with older people.
ERIKA: Around 12, I started drinking consistently.
I was hanging out with people who were of legal age to buy.
It was just readily available.
KAREN: I certainly tried to pull the plug on that the best
that I could, but she would sneak
out whenever she wanted to.
The first time I tried Meth, I was 14 with much older boys.
My best friend hit the pipe, and I'm like, what is that?
And she goes, don't worry about it.
Just hit it.
And I did.
And I liked it a lot.
It was a good feeling, which I wasn't used to.
Everything was falling apart.
The house became chaos.
So the summer before Erika started her sophomore year
of high school, I called my parents
and Erika went up to live with my parents in the mountains
so that she could get a fresh start.
Her mother knew that I did not approve of drugs.
So she figured that'd be a good environment for her.
ERIKA: My grandfather had a ranch that was huge.
And we would be out there herding cattle
or swimming in the horse chops.
It was a dream come true.
NOBERT: Erika lived with us four or five years.
We were just one big happy family.
ERIKA: I was done with Meth.
I didn't look for it.
I didn't buy it.
I didn't look back.
I wanted to go back to school to build
a much better life for myself.
I had a lot of hope for her during that time.
ERIKA: I was 18.
And so after I graduated, I waited tables.
I was a cocktail server or bartender.
On my 21st birthday, I got pregnant with my daughter.
Becoming a mom was the best thing I never knew I needed.
They put her in my arms and she looked up at me
and got the biggest smile.
That's a moment I will never forget.
KAREN: When Erika's daughter was born,
we had set her up in a really cute little apartment.
She and daughter and daughter's dad were all living together.
That didn't last very long.
Erika and her daughter's dad were
very, very volatile together.
He was just being relentlessly cold and
mean and [bleep] and hurtful.
I came home one day and he had thrown all of my things
and all of her things out in the front yard
and had already moved in his stripper
girlfriend and her two kids.
KAREN: At that point, they both were falling apart.
And we all could clearly see that neither Erika
nor daddy were in any position to be having her daughter
full time.
So when Erika's daughter was four,
and the other grandparents had asked us to meet,
and that they felt very strongly that it
was time for something to be done about Erika's daughter.
They set my husband and myself down and said,
you know, we need to take custody of the granddaughter.
And so we need to know are you going to fight us on this
or are you going to work with us on this?
And my husband and I assured them that we were
going to cooperate with them.
It was very firm.
This is what's going to happen.
At the time, I was struggling with depression.
There was lots of alcohol.
My only job as a mother is to protect my child
even if that means from myself.
It's my alcoholism, I--
I decided that I didn't have the family,
the money, or the support that it takes to raise a child.
It went to where I had Mother's Day weekend
and whatever could be agreed upon between the three of us,
which has now turned into nothing.
KAREN: When Erika finally lost custody, she really,
really went off the rails.
ERIKA: In my late 20s, my Meth use really became a problem
because it was just easier to stay
high to deal with everything.
KAREN: Not having her daughter in her life,
that was the downfall and demise of Erika.
That was the left turn of her life.
My daughter is 12 right now.
And not being able to be there for
her is heartbreaking for me.
It has been almost three years since I've
seen my daughter's face.
There's not a drug in the world that would hide that pain.
When Joey goes over to see his mom,
he has no motivation to get right.
She'll give him hell, but she'll do anything for him, you know.
But it always comes with a price.
Because there is no predicting Bethann's actions.
And you sure as [bleep] don't want to set her off.
So I keep my distance.
JOEY: When I'm around my mom, I try to keep it light
and keep it moving.
Less drama as I can, I guess.
BETHANN: When Joey asks me for money,
I don't always give him money.
But I will always feed him and put gas in the car for him.
Do I have enough gas in that car to get back?
I said I'd give it you a few bucks, Joe.
Thank you.
I said I'd give you a few bucks.
My relationship with my mom is she's more like a friend.
She's still my mom.
I still give her that respect.
But it's not the same as like a real mom
because she's an addict in active addiction.
My mom, she's an addict in active addiction.
I use drugs and alcohol because I
made a decision to relapse.
I do not like where I'm at.
I am living in a constant fight with myself.
When I'm around my mom, you know,
I'm not embarrassed of her.
Not-- yeah, kind of.
But my childhood was like a whole different world.
So smoking dope with my mom, I guess, that's normal for me.
BETHANN: Joey was born in St. Paul, Minnesota.
The whole time I was pregnant, I was absolutely sober.
I remember holding Joey for the first time.
And it was the most beautiful natural feeling in the world.
Joey's father was in his life up until about six months.
He was an alcoholic.
So Joey's mother said, this is going
to be a tough life so she left.
We lived right by the lake.
So we had rafts and we love to go in the lake with the dogs.
When I was younger, I never had like a father figure
in my life because there was constantly
boyfriend after boyfriend.
BARBARA: They had a really cute little house.
And Joey was so happy.
CASSIDY: Growing up, my brother was
like an idol, someone I really looked up to,
and kind of my protector.
BETHANN: After Cassidy was born, I was sober, nine months.
And then I relapsed on cocaine.
And that was the first time I ever tried heroin.
JOEY: As I grew older, my mom was just like heavily
locked into her addiction.
I always thought it was my fault,
you know, like why she was neglecting me and my sister.
And so mom was just kind of like never there
when she was with my sister's dad.
And then when they were, it was like he was physically
abusive to me and my mom.
Joey saw me get abused, punched, and kicked.
And so he saw things that impacted his life.
I would like go and try to help my mom
or like stand up to him and he would
just beat the [bleep] out of me.
BETHANN: Joey was smacked in the face,
hard enough to leave a black and blue imprint on his face.
Joey came to visit me and he had a black eye.
And I immediately went to child protective services.
Joey and Cassidy came back to live with me
and he just loved it, making mud cakes
and he would dress the dogs up.
JOEY: When I went to my grandma's, she was awesome.
She brought me to movies.
She taught me responsibilities.
And she basically was my mom and dad growing up.
But I was resentful towards my mom for not being in my life.
So I acted out a lot in school and like got suspended.
And I started to get phone calls from the school
that he is in a fight.
And that's when he was really acting out because he felt OK,
that's normal.
He saw it growing up.
My brother started hanging around with the wrong crowd.
I think the biggest thing that I remember is when he tagged
like a railroad box thing.
They charged me with destruction of property
on a federal thing.
So I got 10 years, federal probation as a minor.
CASSIDY: As a little sister, it was
hard for me seeing my big brother in
and out of treatment centers.
And I didn't understand why.
Like why is my brother not around.
JOEY: Around 16, I tried meth for the first time.
And I was up for a week.
It gave me this rush and this feeling of confidence
like I could do anything.
It made me feel alive.
BARBARA: When Joey was 17, I knew that this is not the place
to raise Joey anymore.
I tried everything.
But his mother, Bethann, was doing well in Minnesota.
JOEY: My mom had found sobriety up there in St. Paul
and so I knew it would be OK.
So she got me a Greyhound ticket.
And the next day, I was going up there.
BETHANN: When Joey came to St. Paul,
I introduced him to an AA meeting,
and he really wanted to get clean.
I went through the 12-step program.
So I stayed with her in her little apartment.
And I just stopped doing meth.
And I was sober off meth for three years.
BARBARA: In Joey's early 20s, he was very happy.
And I was so proud of him because he was doing so well.
And I worked a job as an overnight stock
at a grocery store and had an apartment.
Everything was good.
But then as time goes on, people change,
and you know, people relapse.
One of my coworkers got high on meth.
And so I was like, [bleep] this.
I started using meth again.
So Joey and I met actually in a treatment
center 10 years ago.
I had been using meth for about two years at that point.
And after treatment, he reached out to me
and we were both in the place where we were not trying
to maintain our recovery.
We started using immediately.
And around that time, I found out I was pregnant.
We made the decision that we were done.
And we did stop using at that point.
When Aubrey was born, Joey was there for the birth.
He was able to cut the cord and be
present for all those moments.
JOEY: Holding Aubrey was awesome.
Instantly fell in love with her.
AMY: And I had this hope and this expectation
that we would work on our relationship and be a family.
I was feeling really positive about what
the future could hold.
But when he went back out and started using again,
things got really complicated after that.
We would make appointments to meet at a park.
But over time, I had to stop telling Aubrey
that we were going to see him because he wouldn't show up.
JOEY: I don't like to be high or do the things I do
and then like be around my kid.
Like I can't do that.
So I just didn't deal with it.
I relapsed on meth with my son.
And then as soon as that happened, he moved in my house
and my house got totally invaded with everything and everyone.
My truck got stolen.
I mean, it goes on and on.
BARBARA: After Joey moved back with Bethann,
Joey went really downhill fast.
AMY: My worst fear with Joey is that he
will die before establishing like that relationship
with her.
So every time that Joey and Aubrey are together,
I'll take videos and pictures because I always
have this fear like that this will be the last time
that they're together.
She's nine and not being in my daughter's
life just fuels the addiction.
It makes me want to numb out a little more.
And now I can't like break out of that whole cycle of madness.
Well, do you have a couple of bucks or what?
BETHANN: Why don't you ask grandma?
Give me $10 so I can go get some--
I'm not giving you $10, Joey.
This is what I have.
No, I'm not.
This is what I have.
OK.
Not doing it, bro.
All right.
I'm going to take off then. - OK.
You should clean your windows and stuff
cause that's like terrible.
Yeah.
I'm tired.
- Hello. - Hello.
How are you?
I'm good.
How are you? - Good.
Good. - Good to see you.
You too.
I've known Mary probably seven years.
I'm grateful for Mary.
She's really-- she's been my stone.
MARY: So what's been going on?
What have you guys been doing?
I don't know.
We've been super broke.
Have you guys been using?
Of course, we've been using.
It's been less than usual.
Does that cause more friction?
We bicker and fight more when we don't have anything.
Like if we can get high, then we just kind of do our own thing
and we're fine. We're content.
Make the money and spend it on the dope.
Yeah.
Yep.
Every bit of it.
I love Joey.
I do love Joey.
But I'm moving forward.
So where's Joey at now?
Yeah.
MARY: Joey is fine with the life Joey has been living.
But Erika is wanting to grow and for both of them to get better.
But Joey sees it that they just need to do what they've
been doing and surviving.
And that may be what's dragging her down.
ERIKA: I'm worried about him.
He's a lifer.
I know.
You put all your faith in saving this man.
I know you love him.
Here's what I want to know.
What, Mary?
Does he want what you want?
Being in a relationship and trying to get off drugs,
you have to be on the same page and your journey.
And I just hope we're on the same page.
We are, babe.
CASSIDY: My brother and Erika have love for each other.
But because drugs are in the forefront,
they don't have any clarity.
So it's hard to really see whether or not
they're right for each other.
Joey and I started dating about a year and a half ago
and what a road it's been.
We met on a dating site.
I had just left an abusive relationship with nothing
but a duffel bag of clothes and my dog on foot.
I was really honestly looking for anyone that
wanted to hang out that night.
I just needed to get out of the house.
I think that was it.
I gave him my address and he came and picked me up.
He pulled up in a '92 Astro van.
And you know, most girls, see a creeper van pull up
and open the door, they're like, run.
No, not me.
I'm like, where's this going?
KAREN: Erika was always the kind of daughter that
has a boyfriend you don't want her to see,
but you just can't keep her away.
Yeah.
Holy [bleep].
Whoa.
We used Meth the first time we ever hung out.
We snorted lines of it.
And then like I went to-- we went to a guitar store
and I played her some songs.
And like we instantly fell in love with each other.
Joey is a big enabler.
So I knew that this is going to grow into a very strong drug
addicted relationship.
And that did happen.
Our families have mixed emotions
about us being together.
My family, especially.
They're resentful towards her.
And they've always been like that.
I was cool with Erika at first.
But their relationship and their addiction
together just became flames.
BARBARA: Last summer, they were homeless.
So Joey and Erika came to live with me.
And they stayed out in his van right in front of my garage.
They would get into fights.
And the police were there all the time.
And so my neighbors would complain because of the drug
use and constant chaos.
Erika was getting high on the side of my grandma's house.
And so my grandma called the cops on her
and made her get like leave the property.
I called the police.
And she wouldn't even get out for the police.
So they escorted her out.
And that was the last she was allowed at my house.
But then a week later, my landlord called me and said,
you have 30 days to get out.
So after 24 years in this house, I'm getting kicked
out because Erika was there.
My family not liking Erika sucks.
It means that I don't spend as much time with my grandma
and I have to leave Erika for hours and hours
alone, which has become this big problem for us.
When Joey goes over there, I feel
like he has one foot in each boat and his balls
dangling in the water.
I feel very betrayed, very hurt.
He'll leave me in the car for hours,
waiting on him just doing my jewelry.
I spent Christmas Day alone in the car in Barbara's driveway.
That was how I spent my Christmas just last year.
And it sucked.
Hey, Grams.
You be nice.
Hi, kiddo.
What are you doing?
How are you doing?
Good.
Joey will come to my house at least once a week
and say, grandma, I need $20 for gas.
And I said, well, what are you going to do for it?
So you see the little pile of stuff?
I can get little trash bags and we can put that in-- there's
not that much pile.
Grandmother helps me out in all ways possible.
I'm really grateful for her not giving up on me.
At this point she gave me a place
to live when I didn't have one.
She gave me a car when mine broke down.
How's everything else?
All right.
The batteries went dead, I think, on the car.
When Joey comes to my house now,
it's a quick 5, 10 minutes.
Grams, can I have $20?
I said, well, go clean up the yard.
He will quickly do that because he has to leave
because Erika is up the street.
And he can't leave her alone because he feels sorry for her.
[guitar playing]
I like when you do that, Joe.
It's calming--
Thank you, Grams.
--when you play.
So is there anything else you want me to do
so I can get a couple bucks?
I just gave you 20 yesterday.
I know.
I put it in the gas tank.
Oh, my God.
That's why I thought you were going to have me doing labor.
There's not much to do, Joe.
I mean, behind you is my purse.
Bring it to me.
I give him money because I don't
want him stuck without gas anywhere knowing
that it's not just gas, it's drugs included in that,
and cigarettes.
Because she can't go without a cigarette.
All right.
Well, then I'll see you on Wednesday.
BARBARA: Give me a hug. Love you.
- Love you too. - Do well.
All right, Grams.
Thanks.
Thanks for helping.
Yep.
Come on.
Love you, honey.
Love you, too, Grams.
My relationship with Grandma, I guess
you could call it enabling, but she just
never gave up belief in me in finding
myself in recovery one day.
My name is Ken Seeley.
I am an interventionist, and I have been doing interventions
for over 20 years.
I was called to New Mexico because Erika
and Joey are living in a shed in someone's backyard.
That tells me that their addiction
is so severe that they would go that far down to live that way.
So today, I'm meeting with Karen, who is Erika's mother,
to really dig down and find out what happened with Erika when
she was younger.
What are the things that will come
out when I intervene on her and how
can I really help Erika best.
So how are you doing tonight?
As well as can be expected.
I mean, I'm ready to move forward, I think,
fear of the unknown, and of course, the waiting.
KEN SEELEY: Yeah.
The waiting is the hardest part
and running all the scenarios through my head.
So I'm trying to unravel where the trauma was rooted
in those early years, if there was something
there that could have ignited.
KAREN: Her dad and I definitely had a volatile relationship.
She was probably exposed to a little more fighting and things
like that as a young child.
And so I really wasn't there as she needed me
to be there during that time.
That was probably the period of trauma
because that was when the family really just fell apart.
The acting out, the unpredictability, the temper,
I thought it was something that I could
fix through a nurture avenue.
Looking back, it's clear she suffered some emotional trauma.
Trauma is just as devastating as a rape or a physical abuse
because it's consistent.
And there's always a fear of the unknown.
Yeah.
And she has a younger sister and a younger brother.
Yeah.
We lost my son in July of 2019.
Wait a minute.
You lost your son?
Yes.
Jacob passed away of an acute fentanyl overdose.
ERIKA: Jacob and I had our own relationship
and we were very close.
Yeah.
Jacob was a great kid.
He never got in any trouble.
And I mean, ever.
Everybody that knew him loved him.
So it was very shocking to me that perfectly
healthy 22-year-old kid goes to sleep and doesn't wake up.
Jacob was struggling with depression to a degree
that none of us knew.
Losing Jacob completely flip flopped my life.
It was hard to handle, the grief.
And that's when my drug use took off.
So that was really what pushed Erika over the edge
at that point.
And she really went off the rails.
And that was really when we kind of separated ways.
After we lost my son, Erika's drinking and drug use
became very extreme.
In her eyes, Jacob was perfect.
She'll never admit this, but I really truly feel
like she just wished it was me.
Like it would be easier to accept that my drug addicted
30-year-old daughter overdosed than
my perfect 22-year-old son.
And what was the last time you seen her?
It was June of '21.
Wow.
She just really became--
you know, she just dealt with it way differently than the rest
of us in the family did.
Erika's go to is to numb herself with drugs.
So when her brother died, it was not surprising
that things got out of control.
So you lost your son and then she stopped seeing you also?
Yes.
So I lost two kids that day.
Oh, my God.
That's horrible.
Yeah.
It's not about Erika.
It's about the family system.
This is a family disease.
And it affects everybody.
So whenever she's around you, she just
goes right back to the chaos.
And she starts creating it.
Yes.
In order to break that cycle, she's
going to have to go to treatment and deal
with those deep trauma issues.
Yes.
You know, and realize like what she's doing now
isn't working. - No.
KEN SEELEY: I mean, she's living in a shed.
Yeah.
That there's nowhere else to go.
You can't lose any more than--
Yes, she can't lose anything else.
My daughter will be over at my grandmother's today.
Erika would like to meet her so she's
angry about not being able to go over because it's
an uncomfortable situation.
It's hard for me because he is a big part
of his family's life.
And I don't know what that means.
And I haven't for a very long time.
So for me, to not fit in with his is--
that's another barrier in our relationship for sure.
It's important to me to be able to meet his daughter.
I've wanted to meet Aubrey for a long time now.
But there's always next time.
I'm sick about it today.
It pisses me off.
So it is what it is.
[dog barking]
BARBARA: Aubrey!
Hey!
Lord, help me here.
[dog barks]
CHILD: I'm not.
JOEY: Whats up!
BARBARA: Long ago, Amy was on drugs.
And then when she found out she was pregnant,
she immediately went into rehab.
And she's doing fantastic.
And I'm very happy to say she allows Joey to be
part of his daughter's life.
And he adores her.
So that's your pup?
AMY: How are you?
SAM: Look at her.
Yeah.
BARBARA: Hi.
Hi little one.
Welcome.
I love my daughter.
And I just want our relationship to be close.
Like I want to show her music and art in an early age
so she could have those things ingrained in her.
Joey, of course, is great at music and guitar,
but he's really good with children.
- Are you still skateboarding? - No.
Why?
I don't know.
You should stick with something
and always stay with it.
When we got pregnant, I was really
excited because I had a lot of hopes about the kind of dad
that he would be.
So in the summertime, you better
start skating again because you were doing cool tricks.
I never thought that I'd be able to be a good father figure
because I'm supposed to be a good influence.
And I'm just an active addiction and I
can't like break out of that.
Great.
Cindy.
[gasps]
CASSIDY: Oh, my god, what was that?
Come here.
[kissing sounds]
It's rough because Joey can be very thoughtless.
It drives me nuts because I get frustrated easily.
Mama's got a short fuse.
There's something about Joey that just makes
you want to squeeze his cheeks and punch him in the face,
you know.
Oh, these are cute.
Are you ready?
My daughter calls me, Facetimes me all the time.
And sometimes, I will be in a conflict with Erika,
or I will be getting high.
And I just--
I won't answer the phone and that
is the worst thing about my addiction,
I guess, that I could say it makes me sick to my stomach.
But it's better for her than like be high around my kid.
Eat it even if you feel dirt in it.
To have all of us here is very special.
I love Amy.
She changed her whole life around.
Is Erika here?
[bleep] it.
No, shut it off.
Oh, no.
I'm going to pack up my [bleep] and I'm going to find
somewhere to [bleep] live.
He's lazy.
He's not a man's man.
I want to hear the ultimatums.
Everybody lied to me the whole [bleep] time.
We've been living a dark life for a long time.
It's what we know.
Our relationship consists of a lot of drugs.
Joey and I are addicted to methamphetamine.
KAREN: Erika was always the kind of daughter that
has a boyfriend you don't want her to see,
but you just can't keep her away.
Our families have mixed emotions
about us being together.
No.
There's no love.
They bonded because of drugs.
CASSIDY: Their addiction together just became flames.
Their addiction is so severe that they are living in a shed
in someone's back yard.
My mom is more like a friend because she's
an addict in active addiction.
We bicker and fight when we don't have anything.
He lost their son and then she stopped seeing you also?
Yes.
Erika was getting high at my grandma's house.
And so my grandma called the cops on her.
And that was the last she was allowed at my house.
Is Erika here?
[bleep] it.
I don't care.
No, shut it off.
I'm not really sure why I'm so hated
or disliked over at Barbara's.
But I could honestly, at this point in my life,
give a [bleep] who's in it or not.
Amy, would you like to meet Erika?
- Yeah. - OK.
- Should we go meet Erika? - How about you, Aubrey?
- Yeah. - Cool.
We'll go meet her over there, huh?
Sam.
How are you?
Good.
I'm Amy. - Erika.
Nice to meet you.
Hi, Aubrey.
Nice to meet you.
This is my husband, Sam, and our baby.
Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you as well.
I would love for Aubrey to be able to experience
like that fatherly relationship with Joey.
But it's kind of at arm's length.
But the conversation is always there.
These two are like they've known each other forever.
It's crazy.
Your dad and Joey's.
Your dad and your dad.
Yeah.
AMY: It's a win-win.
ERIKA: Joey's daughter is very lucky
that she's got a stepdad in her life that is good and is sober
and is open to her having a relationship with Joe.
I envy it, honestly.
Because what I would give to look down and see my daughter.
Oh, oh, wait.
I got something for you.
Yeah.
Let's see.
Erika made this for you.
It's cool because it's like a heart
and there's gold in there. It's a gold.
Oh, my gosh.
That's super cool.
ERIKA: It came from the mountain right up here.
SAM: Oh, that's awesome. - What do you think?
Thank you.
That's awesome.
I hope you like it.
That's super special.
Yeah.
That's so cool.
Being able to meet up with Joey's daughter,
I'm grateful for that.
Because I have put a lot of time and energy
and effort and love and heart and soul
into this relationship.
And I don't want to see it just go to [bleep].
Give me a hug, dude.
I get it.
- Give me a good hug too. - Bye, bye.
You guys be safe tonight.
Right now, our bodies hurt.
Our brains hurt.
It's a withdrawal from meth because Joey and I are out.
And we're definitely going to need some.
Like I need to get high.
I know you're going to go in there and smoke, [bleep].
No I'm not.
I've got [bleep] to do.
Whoa, Joe!
[bleep].
[bleep] you.
I hate how you drive.
When we don't have it, we fight.
We say hurtful hateful things.
Yeah.
Here.
Come here.
Addiction brings a lot of issues for us.
Honestly, I never thought that my body would
be physically dependent on it.
And it sucks.
It really sucks.
I got it.
Not a care in the world.
KEN SEELEY: Good to see you again.
How are you all doing?
Ready for this?
So I'm glad you're all here together.
Tomorrow is the intervention, so we're getting prepared for it
because this is going to be a big one.
We're bringing in two family systems that are split.
So the difference is there, make it complicated.
But we're going to show them when they walk in that door
that it's a united front.
And you guys all met Erika, right?
I just met her last night. KEN SEELEY: You just met her.
OK.
Have you met Joey?
I have not met Joey.
KEN SEELEY: You haven't met Joey.
I know Joey well.
KEN SEELEY: Oh, you do?
Yeah.
He's lazy.
And he brags on himself a lot.
He's not a man's man.
I think he took her down more than he helped her.
KEN SEELEY: There's a lot of conflict
because families start blaming the other one.
We're not going to live in the past attacking each other.
Moving forward, what I really see here
is two families really hurting.
The reality here is this isn't either one of their faults.
Crystal meth has taken over a lot of people,
destroying their lives.
I don't know if you heard of meth psychosis.
Sometimes their brains don't come back.
KAREN: Oh, I do worry about that.
And is she ever going to come back?
KEN SEELEY: Yeah.
With all the years that she's been doing it,
I worry about that a lot.
BARBARA: My daughter goes on and on,
and this happened, and that happened, and oh,
my God, they had a fight.
And this is Joey's mom?
Yeah.
Oh, my.
I have to deal with that.
She's 55.
I've been dealing with this since she's 15.
She's 55.
So you got 40 years.
Yeah.
KEN SEELEY: The unsettledness is just so
draining, mentally, physically.
It just takes a toll on people that love loved ones that
are out there in this disease.
The cloud of chaos is what I call it.
No matter where you go, it's just a cloud of chaos.
CASSIDY: I call it a tornado.
KEN SEELEY: You guys talking about that chaos.
I appreciate that you're able to connect at that level
and talk about it because these are things
that you usually like to keep private, right?
BARBARA: Well, it's shameful.
Shameful.
I mean, the problem is I can't let go.
Like when my daughter's here, I can't say,
you're not coming here anymore.
Oh.
I can't do that.
A lot of the things that are happening right now,
the enabling that's happening is keeping them both sick.
Putting your boundaries into place
is really good to protecting yourself.
You are able to do it three years ago.
Yeah.
I mean, everything comes at a cost.
KEN SEELEY: Yeah.
Setting those boundaries, unfortunately,
one of the casualties was my relationship with Erika.
And that was her choice.
That was absolutely her choice, yeah.
And that's where you have to look at it, moving forward.
So tomorrow, we're going to do Erika and Joey's intervention
first because we want to get them on the road
and to the airport.
We're going to wait and do Bethann's intervention
after we do Joey and Erika's because her addiction is
so unstable, she could sabotage it.
We can't take any chances.
So Bethann isn't going to be a part of Joey
and Erika's intervention.
We don't know what your daughter's is going to be like.
We might be chasing her around town.
Oh, my God.
Now let's get down to what we need to do.
Like how are we going to change this.
And that would be bottom lines.
And what your bottom lines are going to be.
What are the things that you're going to take
away from Joey tomorrow?
That car.
I don't know.
He has it probably up there.
They use it.
I'll have to call the police and say it was stolen.
I will write that.
That'll be in my letter.
OK.
So that's the bottom line.
This is a chance--
KAREN: Barbara, I know that I just met you,
but I know you're ready.
I can tell.
I'm done.
And I mean it.
Good for you.
How would that work for grandpa?
If Erica's not in recovery, then
she can't come to your house.
We can't give her anything.
She could only call you if she's in recovery.
Might motivate her because you're
the last straw that she has, that family link through you.
Are you willing to do that?
If that's what it takes.
Let's go.
Oh, no.
Ah.
Joey, and we can't get a jump.
I definitely have my emotional ups and downs.
I'm done.
I can't do it anymore.
This is not a life.
Not one that I want to live at least.
KEN SEELEY: All right.
When they come in, I don't want us all to be sitting here
because that'll scare them.
So everybody, get up, give them a hug.
I'll introduce myself.
You know, if they start running down the streets,
you're going to follow them.
KAREN: That would leave her any other option but to take this.
Good morning.
How are you?
Good morning.
KEN SEELEY: But once she realize grandpa shut down,
you're shut down, but there's this beautiful place
in California that's waiting for her.
And then when she comes home, she has all of you.
KEN SEELEY: Yes.
Stand up now.
Yeah.
There you go.
We're going to be the first people they see.
That's good enough.
[suspenseful music]
Oh.
Oh, hello.
Hi.
Oh, [bleep].
Hello.
ERIKA: What the [bleep]?
Welcome.
Hey.
And we met.
Hey, my baby girl.
Love you.
Me too.
KEN SEELEY: I'm Ken. - Hi.
- Nice to meet you. - Nice to you.
Pleasure.
- Ken. - Hi, Ken.
Nice to meet you.
So I'm glad you guys are here.
So everybody just wrote a little something down.
If you don't mind just listening to them.
BARBARA: Joey, what a joy it was for me
to raise you and watch you blossom into this wonderful
creative self you are.
You have so much love and compassion
and kindness to others all through your life.
It's sad to see that your addiction has changed that.
I saw you so sad in your life.
And I apologize that I couldn't protect you from all
the horrors and trauma you saw.
Let go and trust in the new opportunity
to start healing yourself.
I love you.
Joey, you're such a creative soul.
That artistic brain is something that you and Aubrey share.
Aubrey has demonstrated a desire to share that part of herself
with you.
But that has been the hard because she
often can't reach you.
I watched her excitement transition
into disappointment when she calls or texts,
and you know the answer.
Your addiction has taken nine years of learning these things
about your daughter firsthand.
I see the potential for you two to bond
if you are able to maintain sobriety.
Will you please get help?
Will you please accept this gift of treatment?
I kind of feel--
What do you feel?
I don't know how I feel.
KEN SEELEY: But what they're hoping
is that there's this place called Renewal Lodge.
And it's in Texas.
JOEY: Oh, my God, dude.
And this is where--
the place.
I'm not going anywhere without her going.
OK.
That's not-- that's what they're hoping.
They have a bed waiting for you.
That's your choice.
JOEY: No way.
I don't want to [bleep] go to treatment.
We'll take care of your dog.
So this was all just to [bleep] split us up.
No, not at all.
[bleep] this.
This is [bleep].
I'm going to follow him.
Don't follow me with the [bleep] cameras.
JOEY: [bleep] that.
I know it's a lot to take in, a lot to process.
So let's just hear what Erika's family has to say.
CASSIDY: Thank you for listening to us.
We all love you a lot.
KEN SEELEY: Listen to her family.
She listened to yours, if you don't mind.
And then after that, you can make that decision.
Please listen to her family.
Joey isn't willing yet.
He just doesn't have that level of surrender yet.
We're so close, but you just never know, with the addiction,
when it's still alive.
He agreed to come back in and hear Erika's family
on what they have to say.
We don't want to be split up.
MARY: Erika, I knew from the first time we met,
we would be friends.
I knew your grandmother, mom, and finally, you.
You were so shy, yet friendly and warm.
You have so much light and love and so much to give others,
you forget about yourself.
But the path you are on is only going one way.
This opportunity is what you wanted, needed,
and now it's here.
And I hope you choose to go.
Yep.
MARY: And I hope you choose to go too, Joey.
Erika, remember when you were little?
You used to lay on my lap and I'd tell you stories when I
was a little boy at the ranch.
ERIKA: Yeah.
NOBERT: You know, drinking and drugs, I--
I don't like that.
Erika, I will always, always be in your corner, regardless.
But if you don't get some sort of treatment,
it's going to be hard to do.
I know.
That's-- that's about it.
KEN SEELEY: So the place we have picked out
for you is the Friendly House in Los Angeles.
It's just one of the best places in the world to get sober.
So mom, you want to read your letter?
Erika, I remember when you were little
and we were so close.
I really miss making memories with you.
As your disease has progressed, I've
watched you lose everything that there is to lose.
As the darkest day in our relationship
was when you sent me a text message
that as far as I was concerned, that you
were just as dead as Jacob.
That one hurt.
Everybody that knows me knows I lost my son in July of 2019.
But only the people that know me closest
know I lost two kids that day.
Today is my chance to save one.
What you can do today is you can take charge of the future you.
You got your future in your hand right there, girl.
And you decide today.
[suspenseful music]
KAREN: But you know if you take this opportunity today, that
you have a shot at a real life.
And Joey, you too.
What do you say, baby?
You want to go get better?
KEN SEELEY: They have a bag packed with all new clothes.
And there's two nurses out front that are going
to take you both to treatment.
Dude, I've been to treatment 14 times.
I know the 12 steps.
I know health realization. - Wait a minute.
Calm down.
Everything is lined up for you.
The dogs are taken care of.
All you have to do is say yes right now.
Erika, what's your answer?
The answer's Yes for Erika.
That's what I need to hear.
I was very proud of her for the way she handled herself,
but even more so the way that she handled Joey, kind
of guiding and prompting and waiting for him, whether Joey
decides to go or not.
As a human being, yeah, I hope you say yes.
But my focus today is on Erika.
I can't do this.
Yes, you can.
KEN SEELEY: You know, if you make that decision, that's OK.
But your life is going to change.
I don't [bleep] want to hear the ultimatums.
BARBARA: No. Big Joe.
Just say yes.
That's [bleep].
Everybody lied to me the whole [bleep] time.
What I want to do now is get you in the van to the airport.
So let's go.
ERIKA: Is it like a real goodbye?
This is it.
KAREN: I'm really proud of you.
I'm really proud of you too.
Thank you.
OK.
You got this.
I'll tell them to back off.
Yeah, please, dude.
Can you guys back off, the cameras?
I will, Pops.
[sniffles]
KEN SEELEY: I'll go get Joey to say goodbye.
Yeah.
Wait right here.
KEN SEELEY: You want to come say goodbye to her, Joey?
She's waiting for you to say goodbye.
I got to go.
JOEY: OK.
I love you.
OK.
KAREN: My girl said yes.
So once we got that and I saw that van drive off--
that's my girl.
I could feel her relief.
For the first time in many years,
I think she feels hopeful for what
tomorrow is going to bring.
ERIKA: I was very caught off guard
to see my mom sitting there.
It made me feel good.
I'm ready for a new beginning.
What I'm worried about Joe.
I told him I wouldn't go to rehab if we
couldn't go to the same place.
So he feels betrayed.
And I understand that.
I would too.
I'm very worried about Joe.
Erika just left for treatment, but Joey's not willing to go.
But he is willing to write his mother a letter.
So his sister is going to help him write the letter
for his mom's intervention.
But if she chooses not to go and he chooses not to go,
then we're in a lot of trouble because the two of them
will pair up.
Oh, you are here.
Hey, mom.
Where's Erika?
Look at Joey.
I see Joe.
Hi, Joe.
How come you didn't tell me?
BARBARA: Because I didn't want to.
Hello.
I put your purse.
How are you?
Good.
Oh, please.
No makeup.
KEN SEELEY: So everybody's here because they're really worried
about you and they were worried about Joey,
and offered Joey some help.
And we're hoping that you decide to lead the way as a good mom.
Everybody wrote something down.
You guys want to go first.
My beautiful daughter Bethann, [sighs heavily]
you have suffered so much with addiction.
You're like a wounded bird with a broken wing.
It's hard for me to watch.
If you don't stop soon, I'm afraid you won't make it.
Your health is not good anymore.
Start moving into the light and away from the darkness.
I love you so much.
Take this wonderful opportunity and run with it now.
Mom, you are such a radiant and vibrant
light in this world.
It's been devastating to see you like this, angry, chaotic,
unreliable, and untrustworthy.
This is it mom.
This is your ticket.
Will you take this amazing opportunity to change your life
to get treatment, mom?
KEN SEELEY: It's called Pillars in Southern California.
What?
KEN SEELEY: We have a nurse practitioner out there
to take you to treatment.
Wow.
Looks good, mom.
I think you should do it.
Are you willing to go?
I'm not saying no to any of it.
KEN SEELEY: Are you willing--
Flabbergasted.
Yes, I am.
All right.
Give her a hug.
Alright, Mama!
BARBARA: When I saw Bethann say yes, I was so
thrilled because I mean, I've been praying
on this for a long time.
My hope for Bethann is blossom like she did before
in her community of sobriety.
I'm going to be bombed about my clothes.
Mom.
They're not going anywhere.
We'll get everything for you.
Mom, look at me.
I'm so proud of you.
OK.
KEN SEELEY: Bethann said yes, but Joey does
not want to go to treatment.
So I'm hoping that a light bulb will turn on
for him that'll say, I have no other place
to go except to do this.
So you could go with Ingralisa now,
and then he could go with Tor, and you'll talk on the car.
Because they're already-- they're going
to board in about half an hour.
So you'll have time to talk to her
before she boards her plane.
Is that good?
Bye, Joey.
Go.
You're going to be fine.
You're going to be good.
OK.
Bye, Mom.
Bye.
Love you.
Joey, you're going to be OK.
I just want to hug my brother because I
know he's feeling betrayed.
But I pray that he really digs deep within himself
because it would be really special to have
that, that strength and sobriety with my brother
and with my mom.
Joe, I love you.
I love you too, guys.
All right.
You did good job.
That was tough.
Oh, my God.
JOEY: So I'm on my way to the airport.
Yeah.
I'm proud of you too.
I love you.
Yeah.
Love you too.
All right.
Bye.
What's up, man?
I'm Peter.
Joey.
Nice to meet you.
Come on in. - Rough day?
- Yeah - Yeah.
PETER PIRAINO: Our chief concern here is that you're safe
and that you're OK.
And we're going to do everything we can to help you,
OK.
Our hopes for Joey is that he can focus on himself
and give himself a chance and lets us care about him until he
can care about himself.
JOEY: I wouldn't have picked this place,
but it seems to be hopefully cool.
So I guess I'll just give it a shot.
I'm feeling full of anxiety.
I'm exhausted.
Hi.
Welcome to Friendly House.
Thank you.
I'm very emotional and I'm not sure why.
ELIZABETH FOLIE: We are an all women's facility.
And so many women come in and they're really used
to taking on caretaker roles.
Hello.
It's a big shift to go from being so
wrapped up with your using partner to really
have to focus on yourself.
My hopes are endless right now.
Like anything is possible at this point.
And I'm ready to see what's ahead of me.
ERIKA: I have been sober for 88 days now.
And physically, I feel like a new woman.
I'm definitely happier.
I have a lot more joy even in dark days.
ALLEGRA COMAS: Erika has made a lot of progress.
After 30 days, she was able to settle into her body,
and actually tolerate being alone, away from her partner,
Joey.
She's able to identify her feelings.
It's like she's a different person.
My relationship with my mom, it's loving and respectful
between the two of us.
And she's supportive.
And the status with my daughter, and I got to talk to her
every day for 2 and 1/2 weeks to build a relationship
with my daughter again.
We're both hoping that by high school,
she can come out here and live with me.
She missed me as much as I've missed her.
I've been in touch with Joey.
It has been very minimal.
We got about one ten minute phone call a week.
We miss each other a lot.
And I'm hoping that when he gets done
with his sober living out there, that he can come out here.
And we can begin to do couples therapy and work on ourselves.
My plans when I finished treatment,
I'm going to the sober living attached to Friendly House.
I think that in the long run, it's better for Joey and I
to really have a solid foundation in our sobriety
before we reunite.
Possibilities are endless with that.
JOEY: Have 68 days clean and I feel at peace.
I feel healthy.
I'm reconnecting with myself again.
PETER PIRAINO: When Joey first arrived to treatment,
he was entitled, angry, defiant.
He was hyper focused on Erika.
Every individual session, every group session, about 25 days
in, he chose to leave treatment and called Erika,
asked her to leave treatment, and she said no.
And I think he quickly realized that if he
wanted to be with her, he was going to have
to be a different person.
Two days later, he called us and asked to come back
and we welcomed him with open arms.
And he's been doing amazing since then.
He had a complete turnaround, has committed to a new life,
and has been a leader in the community.
Opening up in groups, I started to address the traumas
from earlier in my life, a lot of grief
and abandonment from my mom.
I'm learning to heal from all that and to grow.
I'll talked to my daughter.
She sounds really good.
And I would like to be in my daughter's life down the line.
[guitar playing]
Me and Erika are still together.
We talk every week.
We write each other every day.
Every day I get a letter from her.
And every day I write one.
What I've learned is if it's true love, you'll let go.
And whatever is best for her needs to happen
for her, and for me as well.
And if we work on ourselves, we'll have a beautiful life
no matter what.
I was really pissed off about the intervention.
But looking back on it, I'm truly grateful.
I have been sober 84 days.
And I am feeling balanced.
I'm feeling grateful and spiritually fit.
Joey, getting treatment at the same time that I did
helped tremendously.
I knew that he was safe, and he knew that I was safe.
JOCELYN ACEVES: Bethann has made tremendous progress while being
here at Pillars Recovery.
She has been able to work through intense amounts
of guilt and shame related to her relationship
with her son, Joey.
She had a lot of guilt related to the fact
that she would use with him.
And so that is something that we worked on together.
And she was able to explore how she can be a better mother.
I think it was probably close to 60 days
that Joseph and I didn't really communicate with one another.
And when we did, finally, it was such a beautiful conversation.
And I was so happy to hear him.
And knowing that he's working on himself,
and he's healing because I heard my son.
So it was really happy.