1 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,840 OFFICER: In January 2020, the lady was offered £1,000 2 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,360 for a video call on WhatsApp, which she did. 3 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,680 She stripped and then masturbated. 4 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:30,840 Burns had become an arch-manipulator of women for the sole purpose 5 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,000 of blackmailing them for his own sexual gratification. 6 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:37,360 OFFICER: Why would you do that? 7 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:40,720 Did you do that? 8 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:47,440 He just said, "This is what I want, and I want it now." 9 00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:49,720 Just a sex slave to him. 10 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:55,800 Are you aware that we have managed to access your MEGA account? 11 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:01,040 'There was in excess of half a million images and videos.' 12 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:04,360 A lot of horror stories came to light. 13 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:11,520 I really did think that he was going to come to my house to kill me. 14 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,440 I've never, ever, apart from this case, 15 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:15,680 dealt with people 16 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,600 who are contemplating taking their own lives. 17 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,280 You've got previous convictions in relation to child abuse. 18 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,600 His one interest was to abuse individuals, 19 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:30,920 and in particular, if given a chance, children. 20 00:01:30,960 --> 00:01:33,440 He'd already offended against children. 21 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,000 He was on the sex offenders register. 22 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,640 OFFICER: Would you offer money to females to abuse the children? 23 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,520 Burns became so sophisticated, 24 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,080 I think he was confident that he wouldn't be caught. 25 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:55,120 An American adult offender abuses her eight-year-old daughter, 26 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,600 and you're screen recording it all the time. 27 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,080 This was a new level, which was absolutely abhorrent. 28 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,800 It's an eight-year-old child, that, Anthony. 29 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,360 He showed absolutely no remorse, ever. 30 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:22,880 My name is Steve Colman, 31 00:02:22,920 --> 00:02:25,040 and I'm an officer with the National Crime Agency. 32 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,040 Person being interviewed is Danny Burns. 33 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,200 Danny, can you give me your full name, please? 34 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,160 Er... Danny Burns. 35 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:33,880 When you were arrested this morning, you were cautioned. 36 00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:35,280 Do you understand that caution? 37 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:37,040 Erm... yeah. 38 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:44,440 Hello. Shaun Juriansz. 39 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:47,600 Hiya, Hayley. 40 00:02:47,640 --> 00:02:51,080 I'm gonna meet you at the station when you come in. 41 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,400 Apart from when you're in court, we'll be there with you. 42 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,040 Yeah. If there's anything else you need, just let me know. 43 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,000 Shit, I have to go through this again. 44 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,040 I have to relive this again... 45 00:03:06,640 --> 00:03:08,720 ..and tell my side of the story. 46 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,800 Burns continually delayed the judicial process, 47 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,800 time after time after time, 48 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,960 for the sole intention to try and get victims to give up. 49 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:26,320 My whole aim was to go to court, 50 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,200 no matter where it was, when it was. 51 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,040 And I did exactly that. 52 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,600 I wanted to see him go down for a long time. 53 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,920 He's seen me in all my glory, 54 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,680 and I wanted to see him in all of his dismay. 55 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,920 There's a girl called Hayley. She's saved in your contacts. 56 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:51,640 In October 2020, she was on the site "Sugar Daddy". 57 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,200 She was then asked to do a live video call, 58 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,680 directed to perform certain sexual acts, which she did, 59 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,720 and she was directed to urinate, but she refused. 60 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:05,360 Once she refused, she was then sent a screenshot 61 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,680 of her Facebook profile, and that was the threat. 62 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:13,400 "Do the call, or I will upload that video 63 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:15,120 "to your friends and family," 64 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:19,800 is again an MO of yours, which you've used previously 65 00:04:19,840 --> 00:04:23,840 to identify this victim's personal details 66 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:25,480 in order to blackmail them. 67 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:35,320 It all kind of stemmed from a very, very bad break-up of mine. 68 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:40,960 I was working as a carer, and I was absolutely desperate for money. 69 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:44,280 My friend at the time just said, 70 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:48,080 "You know, how about we go onto this Sugar Daddy website?" 71 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:54,080 It's a website that men with a lot of money 72 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:57,520 kind of go out and spoil younger women, 73 00:04:57,560 --> 00:04:58,960 and they give you an allowance. 74 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,280 And that was the pitch that was given to me at the time. 75 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,360 Another victim, she was contacted on Plenty of Fish. 76 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:16,360 That's when I first came across his profile, and he had matched with me. 77 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,760 I think he sent me the first message. 78 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,600 I responded to him cos he was attractive. 79 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,920 He looked like a very genuine man. 80 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,440 He said he was 25. He said he was six foot. 81 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,200 He had pictures of him on holiday, 82 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,720 having a nice time with his friends and his family. 83 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:34,760 He seemed like... 84 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:37,920 ..for want of a better phrase, a cheeky chappy. 85 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:45,880 Burns catfished other images off the internet, 86 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:47,640 purporting to be other people. 87 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:53,120 OFFICER: And she falls for this image in her head, 88 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:54,840 believing that it's you, 89 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,400 when in fact, those images were actually just taken 90 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,280 from online social media profiles. 91 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,000 I think it must have been about two or three hours 92 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:08,320 into actually having the profile, and then I had contacted him, 93 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,320 just saying I think it was, "Hi, how are you." 94 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,120 Burns said that he was a business owner 95 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:21,120 in I think it was Malibu in America, worth millions and millions, 96 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,520 and I just kind of took that at face value again. 97 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,240 The first message I received from him was, 98 00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:33,720 "If I give you $600, will you do these six videos?" 99 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,600 And I thought, "Well, he's not from around here, 100 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:41,280 "so nothing bad is going to happen." 101 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,480 We were chatting on the app for about an hour, hour and a half. 102 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,320 He suggested moving to WhatsApp and just swapping numbers. 103 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:53,600 So I just gave him my number. 104 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,600 WhatsApp has end-to-end encryption 105 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:00,640 and is a secure means of communicating 106 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,040 and therefore is a way of evading law enforcement. 107 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,240 She was directed to move onto WhatsApp, 108 00:07:09,280 --> 00:07:14,040 asked proof of identification in age, and she sent a copy... 109 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:19,560 The first message I got from him on WhatsApp was, "Hi, it's Daddy." 110 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:21,440 It was a bit Jekyll and Hyde, really. 111 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:22,960 It really escalated. 112 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:35,280 From the get-go, it was very sexual, 113 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,400 very... domineering. 114 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,760 He just said, "This is what I want, and I want it now." 115 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:50,720 I was nervous at first, erm... sending that very first video. 116 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:56,320 His intention was really, again, to get that first sexualised image. 117 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,000 He did say, "I am a dominant man, 118 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:07,080 "and I know what I want, and I want to own you. 119 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,200 He was getting very, very manipulative... 120 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:13,920 ..coercive. 121 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:16,720 He was telling me to call him "Daddy". 122 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:18,680 He was telling me to do things 123 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,640 that were completely out of my comfort zone. 124 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,280 He specifically asked me if I had eyeliner 125 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,120 that I would use to write the word "slut" on my chest. 126 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,000 And as soon as I'd asked for the payment... 127 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:44,040 ..he then started with the blackmail. 128 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,480 The person wanted her to do a striptease, masturbate, 129 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,160 write "slut" on her body with lipstick, 130 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,280 and she was directed to urinate. 131 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,400 Is this something that you have done previously, Danny? 132 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:15,960 She was offered £600 for sexualised images, 133 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,760 which she refused and stopped the call. 134 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,960 Is this it something that you have done previously, Danny? 135 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,840 Again, it's an identical MO that has happened 136 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,320 to a number of victims that we can associate 137 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,480 with material recovered in your phone. 138 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,680 And the phone number that was used is linked to other victims, 139 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,480 and the name Dominant BLEEP has been used. 140 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,120 Burns had become an arch-manipulator of women 141 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,960 for the sole purpose of blackmailing them 142 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,040 to get images for his own sexual gratification. 143 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:59,800 What he asked me to do made me feel disgusting 144 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:01,800 and very vulnerable. 145 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,040 "Scary" kind of doesn't seem to cover it. 146 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,120 "Terrifying" doesn't seem to cover it. 147 00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:11,840 And on another number he sent me... 148 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,520 "Listen, you dumb, big-ass, big-tit fuck pig, 149 00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:18,320 "you're lucky I'm even talking to you, 150 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,840 "but your eyes, I can see you are pleading for a man." 151 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:27,360 And I checked my phone, and he had sent me pictures of my dad. 152 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:31,800 He'd sent me pictures of my sister and her children, my colleagues. 153 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:37,800 She was then told that her real name was known 154 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,520 because the offender had hacked into her Facebook. 155 00:10:41,680 --> 00:10:43,800 'Burns was very good at doing research.' 156 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,960 So when he was able to identify the full name and location 157 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:49,840 of the individual in the chat, 158 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:51,840 then he would go about researching them 159 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,640 through Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, 160 00:10:54,680 --> 00:10:58,560 and obtaining details of their friends and families, 161 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,440 which he would then use in order to blackmail them. 162 00:11:02,560 --> 00:11:07,080 OFFICER: Those images, we find not only in your home, 163 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:11,440 but also, other victims throughout have said, 164 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:13,600 "He sent me pictures of himself." 165 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:14,960 Have you done that? 166 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:21,280 Can you provide any explanation that would indicate 167 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:25,320 that you are not responsible for the offence of blackmail? 168 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,840 Just from having my first name, my mobile phone number, 169 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:35,640 he was able to find everything out about me. 170 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,280 And that... that was really scary. 171 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,640 And then he started sending me very sexual images. 172 00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:47,000 And it got worse and worse and worse, 173 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:52,840 message after message after message, getting longer and more disgusting 174 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,360 and more vile and more aggressive. 175 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,680 He probably sent me about 50... images 176 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,840 of things that he either wanted me to do. 177 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:11,240 He wanted videos of me undressing and doing certain things. 178 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,040 He asked me what I had around me 179 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,360 that I could use to insert myself with. 180 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:22,600 It shocked me, the depth of his kind of sexual depravity. 181 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:28,640 He sent me over 500 messages in a couple of hours, 182 00:12:28,680 --> 00:12:31,200 so it was constant. 183 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,880 With every message that he sent me, it was a threat. 184 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,680 And it was enough to scare, really, really scare me. 185 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,920 I didn't know if he knew exactly where I lived. 186 00:12:55,960 --> 00:13:00,160 I didn't know if he was close to where I lived. 187 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:01,920 It was at that point that I was worried 188 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,520 that he would be coming to my house. 189 00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:09,320 I really did think that he was going to come to my house to kill me. 190 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,160 I thought that I could die. 191 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,800 I blocked his number, and he came back on a different one. 192 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:22,040 Blocked that one. 193 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:28,040 Probably phoned the police about quarter to nine, I would guess. 194 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,080 Is there anything to indicate that you are NOT 195 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,240 the person responsible for this offence? 196 00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:44,520 At about one o'clock in the morning, four blocked numbers later, 197 00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:47,480 there was a policewoman at my house. 198 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,760 I showed them the messages that I still had, 199 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:59,480 cos by that point, he had deleted the very worst of what he sent. 200 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,360 I have no evidence that he sent me photos of my family. 201 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:07,320 The vile things he sent me, that doesn't exist any more. 202 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,320 But ultimately, they told me that unless he shows up, 203 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,480 there's nothing they can do. 204 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:17,120 And... SHE SNORTS 205 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,160 ..if he shows up, it's too late. 206 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,440 For a long time after that, I didn't feel safe. 207 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:31,440 That torment went on for a long time. 208 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,000 What he wanted was vile, 209 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:40,000 but I was very lucky that he hadn't honed his technique, 210 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,280 because I know how he messaged other women 211 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,200 and how he convinced them to do what he wanted. 212 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:52,360 My name's Steve Colman. 213 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,600 I'm phoning from the National Crime Agency, 214 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:59,440 and I want to speak to you in relation to Danny Burns. 215 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:00,800 Yep, that's fine. 216 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:02,480 If you need anything else, give us a ring. 217 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:04,920 Burns first came onto our radar 218 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,800 when we were investigating the serial offender Abdul Elahi. 219 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,560 That had commenced in December 2018, 220 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,080 and we very quickly realised that we were dealing with 221 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,120 probably one of the largest online offenders 222 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:21,440 which the UK has ever seen. 223 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:27,320 Abdul Elahi had 2,000 victims and over a million images. 224 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:33,000 It was identified that Elahi had been communicating 225 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,320 with a UK suspect, 226 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,160 and we had the WhatsApp chat logs to support that. 227 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,640 Once we'd identified the telephone number 228 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:48,160 which was engaging with Elahi, 229 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,800 they were able to very quickly link it to Burns. 230 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,920 It was almost like they were two mates talking, you know, online. 231 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,640 But Elahi obviously had a bit more experience, 232 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:07,840 so it was almost like he was the teacher and Burns was the pupil. 233 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,120 This was a... I'm not gonna say 234 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,680 a highly planned conspiracy to work together, 235 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:24,640 but it was an opportunity which presented for Elahi 236 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,560 to join up with another individual who had a very similar interest. 237 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:39,320 Danny Burns was picking up, 238 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,520 shall we say, his tradecraft from Elahi. 239 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,280 Mr Burns was very much the willing student. 240 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,600 Mr Elahi took on the teacher role 241 00:16:55,640 --> 00:17:01,320 and started teaching Burns how to perfect the art of blackmail, 242 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,160 eventually being provided with a script by Elahi, 243 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,960 which Burns would then adapt and take on himself. 244 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,160 Elahi would initially ask for just a normal picture, 245 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,480 a "girl next door"-image-type thing. 246 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:25,640 Then he would offer them money for topless images 247 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,240 and then for fully naked images. 248 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:29,880 And once he'd got those, 249 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,520 he was then in a position to fully blackmail them. 250 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:40,160 Although Burns and Elahi had the same MO, 251 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:44,760 Elahi would produce box sets, video compilations, 252 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:46,840 which he would then ultimately sell. 253 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,760 Burns's was always just purely for sexual gratification. 254 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,720 OFFICER: She was spoken to in August 2020. 255 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,960 She strips. She masturbates. 256 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:03,400 She writes words on herself such as "dirty" and "slut". 257 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:07,200 Was that you typing out that communication? 258 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:15,000 Once Burns had learnt Elahi's MO, he then went off on his own. 259 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:20,880 And Elahi found out that he was operating, contacted Burns. 260 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:22,920 Burns refused to share. 261 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,480 OFFICER: 262 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:02,640 BURNS: 263 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:09,520 When Elahi was arrested, Burns continued his offending alone. 264 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,840 He was more evil. He was more deceitful. 265 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,840 I arrested him on conspiracy to blackmail 266 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,240 in relation to his offending with Elahi, 267 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,080 and I interviewed him. 268 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:35,960 STEVE COLMAN: 269 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,200 BURNS: 270 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,760 STEVE COLMAN: 271 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,480 BURNS: 272 00:19:57,120 --> 00:19:58,960 STEVE COLMAN: 273 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,000 BURNS: 274 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,760 STEVE COLMAN: 275 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:15,800 BURNS: 276 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,360 In interview, Burns played the victim. 277 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:31,280 He blamed Elahi and that Elahi was, in effect, blackmailing him. 278 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:36,600 And that's exactly how he portrayed himself in every single interview. 279 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,320 BURNS: 280 00:20:40,360 --> 00:20:42,360 STEVE COLMAN: 281 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,320 BURNS: 282 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,400 STEVE COLMAN: 283 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,960 BURNS: 284 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,000 STEVE COLMAN: 285 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,040 BURNS: 286 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:17,280 STEVE COLMAN: 287 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,320 BURNS: 288 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,760 Burns was released on bail conditions 289 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,200 to his home address, where he lived with his father, 290 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,600 and basically went around his normal daily life. 291 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:47,280 He had a girlfriend. 292 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,000 He had been employed in what you would say 293 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,160 was a relatively mainstream employment role. 294 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,240 Albeit he was a convicted sex offender, 295 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,920 he had a relatively normal lifestyle. 296 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:57,640 But he was still offending... 297 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,520 ..under the radar for some time. 298 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,880 STEVE COLMAN: Can you provide any explanation 299 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:13,240 as to why the mechanics of what she has gone through 300 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,840 is identical to what has happened to others? 301 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:21,680 It seems an identical MO that you have used previously. 302 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,040 STEVE COLMAN: The person wanted her to do a striptease, masturbate, 303 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,560 write things like "slut" on her body with lipstick, 304 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,080 and she was directed to urinate. 305 00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:49,160 Is this something that you have done previously, Danny? 306 00:22:57,120 --> 00:23:01,280 He would kind of send me references 307 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,480 of other women doing some videos, 308 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:09,000 and it was stuff from masturbation 309 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:14,280 to urinating in my underwear and putting it in my mouth 310 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,640 to anal masturbation. 311 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,960 And it was very intense very quickly. 312 00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:28,080 And the blackmail started that night. 313 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:34,040 She was then sent a screenshot from that video call 314 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:39,920 where she was naked, followed by a threat stating 315 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,080 that if she didn't continue with the video call, 316 00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:47,240 the screenshot would be uploaded to her friends and family. 317 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,960 So a distinct threat of blackmail. 318 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,600 He was a highly, highly organised individual. 319 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,520 He was at the peak of his talents, 320 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,440 which his talents just happened to be abusing 321 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,960 and sadistic abuse and paedophilic interests. 322 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:09,240 "If you do not do this, you will be blackmailed. 323 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,840 "This is what I will do. I have found you on social media. 324 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,520 "I have found your family, your friends, 325 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,640 "your grandad, your brother, your sister." 326 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,400 And he knew exactly who I was. 327 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,440 That's when the shock and realisation hit 328 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,400 that this is not who he says he is. 329 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,560 This is something... 330 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:34,880 ..more deviant. 331 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,960 He knew my full name. He knew where I was located. 332 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:47,840 I was... petrified of him showing up to my address. 333 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,960 And that's when I started to break down. 334 00:24:54,000 --> 00:25:00,160 He... told me that he was going to FaceTime me on WhatsApp. 335 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:06,040 And I just agreed to do it because I was so frightened. 336 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,520 Burns would be interacting with the victim, 337 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,480 directing them what to do. 338 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,680 Although he had his camera turned off, 339 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,600 because there was a black screen on the video, 340 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,640 you could clearly hear that he was masturbating 341 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,680 whilst watching the act, 342 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,000 and this is how he gained his sexual gratification. 343 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:34,920 He got me to take a sex toy out, lie on the floor, erm... 344 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:40,280 insert it vaginally, anally, and then back to vaginal, 345 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,640 and it kind of swapped between both. 346 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,920 I was on the floor in tears, absolutely in tears, 347 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,440 and he was telling me to call him Daddy, 348 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,560 telling me that this is what's gonna happen when he rapes me. 349 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,160 And I just had to do it continuously 350 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,280 for I believe it was 45 minutes to an hour... 351 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:09,120 ..just sobbing, 352 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,360 telling me to do things, and I just did them. 353 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,880 I was under his control at that point. 354 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,520 We saw victims... fall under his spell, 355 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,600 is what I would say, during that time. 356 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,240 It was... constant. 357 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,160 And I'd say, you know, "I'm at work. I can't do anything right now." 358 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,440 "Go to the toilet and do something for me on the toilet," 359 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,240 or, you know, "Go home for your break 360 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,600 "and do something for me on your break." 361 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,760 He was threatening every single day 362 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,000 for the three, four days that it was going on for, 363 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,680 saying that he'd post it onto social media, 364 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,320 he'll send it out to people he knows. 365 00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:17,280 Every video he wanted, every image he wanted, 366 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,160 I couldn't say no to it 367 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,360 cos I didn't know what he was capable of. 368 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,720 Just a sex slave to him, I suppose. 369 00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:36,320 STEVE COLMAN: And just to remind you of the caution, Anthony... 370 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,560 ..you are now being given an opportunity 371 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,120 to provide an explanation 372 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,880 as to why her details are in your phone. 373 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:54,640 I went to work, 374 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:59,880 did my job, came home, and I hid from life. 375 00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:04,440 I refused to go to the shop cos I didn't know if he was around, 376 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,400 where he was, what he was doing. 377 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:12,880 I refused to kind of get involved with my friends any more, 378 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,680 and I lost a lot of friends at that point. 379 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,720 It was evident that his offending 380 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,800 had escalated completely out of control, 381 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,040 and it was also clear 382 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,080 that he thought he wasn't going to be caught. 383 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,680 The first time I'd told anyone 384 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:37,760 was on the 22nd of October, I think it was. 385 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,120 And I went to my best friend's house and just absolutely broke down. 386 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,560 And I spoke to her mum, who told me to ring the police straight away. 387 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,520 I said to him that I've contacted the police, 388 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,720 and he messaged me back and said, "You're a liar." 389 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:01,280 And I just told him to fuck off and blocked him. 390 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,880 And that's when it all stopped. 391 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,000 The police came out the following day 392 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:15,680 and took all the details down, so his numbers that he was using, 393 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:20,560 screenshots of the messages, screenshots of the videos. 394 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,400 I had to send everything over to my officer in charge. 395 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:30,080 And I think it was maybe a week later they closed the case. 396 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:38,280 Burns would buy American numbers, so when he phoned victims, 397 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,080 they would think it was he was phoning from America, 398 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,760 and that was solely done to defeat law enforcement. 399 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:55,000 You've been given over nearly three years, Anthony, 400 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,120 opportunity after opportunity after opportunity 401 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,000 to provide explanations 402 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,880 as to why all this material attributes to you, 403 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,640 and you have not provided any explanation whatsoever. 404 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,720 It was identified that Burns was having a sexual relationship 405 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,840 with a female with children. 406 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,920 The NCA had identified that, informed the Metropolitan Police, 407 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,800 and he was arrested for breaching his Sexual Harm Prevention Order. 408 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,520 We had his phone, we analysed his phone 409 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,520 and reviewed the data from that 410 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:48,440 and identified that Burns had been on numerous dating websites, 411 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,800 engaging with females and ultimately blackmailing them. 412 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:58,880 And this was happening between December 2019 and March 2020. 413 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,440 Burns was always a risk. We knew he was offending out there. 414 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:10,720 We had gathered sufficient evidence to bring charges against him 415 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,200 for a breach of a sexual offence prevention order, 416 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:15,680 and that gave us an opportunity 417 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,680 to get him charged and remanded in custody. 418 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,960 Burns is in prison, where he thinks he's going to be staying... 419 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:25,720 ..and COVID breaks out. 420 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,480 And there is a government desire to empty the prisons 421 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,200 to stop the spread of COVID. 422 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,840 Unfortunately, the prison authorities had decided 423 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,560 that Burns could be released on a tag. 424 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:44,280 The monitoring would still continue, but it created again a further risk 425 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,000 that we had to undertake that he was out there. 426 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,280 Burns was a high-risk sex offender 427 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,200 with previous offending against children and online. 428 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:03,680 OFFICER: On the 8th of October, you sent to her a video 429 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:09,000 of two female children engaged in sexual acts together. 430 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:10,920 Do you remember sending that video? 431 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,000 Burns was released on conditional bail 432 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,200 with a tag to his mother's address in Lowestoft, 433 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,160 where he was also managed as a high-risk sex offender. 434 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,400 When COVID kicked in, 435 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,080 it almost presented a huge opportunity 436 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,840 for people who had a sexual interest, such as Burns. 437 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,120 They could sit at home, knowing that they were not gonna be disturbed. 438 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,520 They knew they had a huge potential audience out there 439 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:50,800 that they could reach out to, 440 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,920 and Burns took advantage of that opportunity. 441 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:58,240 Whilst Burns was in Lowestoft on Crown Court bail, 442 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,360 he continued to offend and increase his offending, 443 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,120 giving virtually a total disregard... 444 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,800 ..to the whole criminal justice system. 445 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,520 The indication from the WhatsApp chat 446 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,760 is that you have a sexual interest in young girls. 447 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,600 Mr Burns, one interest was to abuse individuals, 448 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,920 and in particular, if given a chance, children. 449 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,640 There's a number of... a large number, in fact, 450 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:45,000 of videos of children engaged in sexual acts, 451 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,440 basically videos of child sexual exploitation and abuse. 452 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,880 Are you responsible for those, Danny? 453 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,280 He'd already offended against children. 454 00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:58,960 He was on the sex offenders register. 455 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:01,920 Do you watch them? 456 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:06,680 Do you save them? 457 00:34:09,240 --> 00:34:11,160 Do you send them to other people? 458 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:17,480 'Burns had a criminal record.' 459 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:22,480 In 2010, he was convicted of grooming a 14-year-old girl 460 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,640 and sentenced to 18 months' imprisonment. 461 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,160 And in 2013, he was sentenced to three years' imprisonment 462 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,960 for sexual activity with a child. 463 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:35,800 He was already being monitored 464 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,800 by the local sex offender management units, 465 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,080 so he was getting regular visits, 466 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:42,800 but he was still taking the opportunity 467 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,800 to carry out his sort of criminality. 468 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,480 Can you provide any explanation 469 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:55,800 as to why the mechanics of what she has gone through 470 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,360 is identical to what has happened to others? 471 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:04,360 It seems an identical MO that you have used previously. 472 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,200 STEVE COLMAN: On and around the 24th of October, 2020, 473 00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:32,000 Hayley was taken onto WhatsApp and offered £600 474 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:36,160 for sexualised images, and she was directed to urinate. 475 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,320 Is this something that you have done previously, Danny? 476 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,760 I received a phone call from Devon and Cornwall Police 477 00:35:54,800 --> 00:36:00,960 that indicated that Burns had blackmailed a 19-year-old girl. 478 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,640 A set of investigators went out, spoke to the victim. 479 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,480 This particular victim gathered some information, 480 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:08,880 gathered some further evidence, 481 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,680 which then triggered a further arrest of Burns. 482 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:21,640 I, along with other NCA officers, 483 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,480 attended his home address in Lowestoft. 484 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:29,120 Burns lived with his mother. It was a two-bedroom mews house. 485 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,920 And I then arrested him on suspicion of blackmail, 486 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,960 and we transported him to Lowestoft police station. 487 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,880 Once Burns saw it was me, he was clearly in shock, 488 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,320 visibly shaking and crying. 489 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,600 He was pleading with me, saying, 490 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,320 "Steve, this is all a misunderstanding. 491 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:53,840 "I haven't done anything wrong." 492 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,320 Go into interview, he refuses to engage, 493 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,440 answers all the questions "no comment" 494 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,880 and completely shuts up shop. 495 00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:09,680 OFFICER: Is it the case that you've communicated with so many people, 496 00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:11,200 you can't remember? 497 00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:13,000 Or is it that... 498 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:15,720 ..it didn't exist? 499 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,240 He was not open and forthcoming with any sort of answers. 500 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,680 He was obstructive in the interview process. 501 00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:27,040 He didn't particularly engage with the officers. 502 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,400 So on the 15th of March, 2021, 503 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,520 he was charged with one offence of blackmail 504 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:35,920 and remanded in custody. 505 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:41,360 Unfortunately for Mr Burns, 506 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,840 his phones were seized and examined properly, 507 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,200 and once that had been done, the gateway suddenly opened up. 508 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:55,200 He had hundreds and hundreds of mobile telephone numbers 509 00:37:55,240 --> 00:37:58,160 from the UK, US and Australia. 510 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,360 They were saved as female names 511 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:06,560 or derogatory remarks of a sexual nature. 512 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,200 As soon as we realised the scale of Burns's offending, 513 00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:18,000 it wasn't a case of sitting around and moping about it. 514 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,080 It was very much a case of we'll get on with it, 515 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:21,760 we'll do it, we'll work over the weekend, 516 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:23,720 we'll start reaching out, we'll work evenings. 517 00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:27,240 Well, it was figuring out how to then progress it. 518 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:33,880 We'd identified that there were 297 female UK numbers in his phone. 519 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,760 A decision was made that they should be contacted. 520 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,120 Because of the sheer number, they had to be contacted by phone. 521 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,800 So we were playing catch-up straight away, really, 522 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,840 to try and get each and every one of them on board. 523 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,080 I can't think of anything more horrendous 524 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,040 for an individual as to receive a cold call 525 00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,400 from an individual they'd never come across... 526 00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:01,240 ..taking them back to an area 527 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,080 which they'd probably like to forget about. 528 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:08,080 As law enforcement, I think people look upon us as, you know, 529 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,600 "We need to arrest people," and absolutely, course we do. 530 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,120 We need to bring these people to justice. 531 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,120 However, our priority is always the victims, 532 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:18,760 to make sure that they're all right. 533 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:29,520 Over a weekend, three of us sat down and phoned each number. 534 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:32,920 He's currently in custody, 535 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,640 and we'd like to come and speak to you. 536 00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:42,000 'We had to make those calls, and they were really hard to do.' 537 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:47,160 Do you have any idea why your number would be in the phone 538 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,000 of somebody who is known to engage with people, 539 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,600 erm, and obtain sexualised image with them? 540 00:39:54,640 --> 00:40:00,920 We were phoning people who had been victims of serious offences 541 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,920 and in effect, revictimising them, 542 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,120 but there was no other way of doing it. 543 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:12,880 And did you call the police? 544 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:15,840 All right. Bye. 545 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:20,000 The responses we got was people would immediately hang up. 546 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,600 Some would say, yes, they had been the victim, 547 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,920 but they didn't want to engage with us. 548 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:29,800 And some broke down and confirmed 549 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,880 that they had been the victim of a crime 550 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:33,560 and were willing to speak to us. 551 00:40:39,240 --> 00:40:41,960 Six, seven months after it had happened, 552 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,880 and I'd kind of got back to normality, 553 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:46,560 doing my own thing again... 554 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,120 ..kind of came out of that shell that I'd put myself into, 555 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:55,680 and a number that I didn't recognise rang me, and I answered. 556 00:40:55,720 --> 00:40:56,880 And he just said, 557 00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:01,480 "This is the National Crime Agency. We've got him. He's in custody." 558 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:03,840 And they just said, "His name is Anthony Burns." 559 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:16,240 In January 2020, the lady, along with a number of other people, 560 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,760 received a message from a number which is a US number 561 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,360 and offered £600 for sexualised images. 562 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:29,400 She sent a copy of her passport for proof of age and PayPal details, 563 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,080 which would include her email address. 564 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,800 She did a video call on WhatsApp. 565 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,880 She was directed to urinate on herself, but she refused. 566 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,440 This offence is obviously identical 567 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,680 to a number of other offences we're investigating. 568 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,840 'Hearing those words, "We've found him," 569 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,000 'I didn't think was ever going to happen.' 570 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:58,320 It was just that sense of almost euphoria in a way. 571 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:02,040 And I just... I sobbed, absolutely sobbed. 572 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,440 And those that were willing to talk to us, 573 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,360 we arranged to meet them. 574 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,480 And that was done by specialist interview teams. 575 00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:22,200 Burns was so active that we've travelled miles and miles. 576 00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:24,720 I think whilst the investigation's running, 577 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,800 you live and breathe it every day, and it doesn't leave your head. 578 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,320 I think the best quality that you could have 579 00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:42,840 to speak to victims is empathy, because, you know, 580 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,360 they've been through an absolutely harrowing event. 581 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,280 We'd usually be met with a very nervous individual, 582 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,680 and I get that - they know what we're going to speak about. 583 00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,600 The aim is to make sure that they're all right 584 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:00,120 and to put them at their ease 585 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,480 to speak to law enforcement about what's happened 586 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,080 and hopefully lay charges on the offender. 587 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,120 Because we need to get the full picture 588 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:14,720 of exactly what they've made you do and how they've made you feel. 589 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,120 Yeah, I've never, ever, apart from this case, 590 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:23,440 dealt with people 591 00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,600 who are contemplating taking their own lives. 592 00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:32,320 I myself was phoned up at four o'clock on Christmas morning 593 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,920 by a victim who was crying 594 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:40,400 and was saying that she was contemplating taking her own life. 595 00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,400 One of the victims just couldn't set foot out of her house. 596 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:50,600 Burns posted degrading images on the world wide web. 597 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,000 She had to move back to her home address with her mum... 598 00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,040 ..where her mum looked after her. 599 00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,160 She wanted to take her own life. 600 00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:01,880 Really, really sad. 601 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:06,960 A lot of horror stories came to light. 602 00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:12,520 OFFICER: Not only do you post her name, 603 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:16,600 you then type in the info box "exposed". 604 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:20,240 You then upload two images, 605 00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:24,840 the first being a passport and the second is a sexual image. 606 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:27,200 Why would you do that? 607 00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:30,680 Did you do that? 608 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:37,240 'It shocked me, what they were asked to do.' 609 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:42,080 He were asking people to defecate and, you know, wee in a cup 610 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:44,640 and some of them to drink it or wet themselves 611 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,440 and then put the underwear that they were wearing, 612 00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,120 you know, into their mouths and suck it. 613 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,240 Have you a sexual interest in young girls? 614 00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:57,960 And when I say young girls, I mean children. 615 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,520 Have you got a sexual interest in children? 616 00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:05,920 We knew that, by Burns's MO, 617 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:08,600 that he videoed them and captured them. 618 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,960 But we were a bit confused, really, as to why we'd got his phone 619 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,280 and there were no or very little imagery 620 00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:17,800 of our victims. 621 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,160 He was using cloud telephone numbers, 622 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:25,680 a system of telephone numbers 623 00:45:25,720 --> 00:45:28,000 which appear to come from a particular country, 624 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:31,520 but in fact, you are using them off your own mobile phone. 625 00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:34,680 He used VPNs to cover up his internet profile. 626 00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:38,080 It's a virtual private network which would hide his IP address. 627 00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:42,200 If you set your VPN to be in America, 628 00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:45,960 the victims, they would think that he's an American. 629 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,320 He used a multitude of fake addresses, 630 00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:51,840 fake names, fake telephones, burner phones 631 00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:53,600 in order to carry out his offending. 632 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:55,920 With Mr Burns, what he developed 633 00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,200 was more sophisticated as time went on. 634 00:45:58,240 --> 00:46:01,440 Burns totally learnt from all his mistakes, 635 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:05,560 to the point where he became so sophisticated 636 00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:09,320 that I think he was confident that he wouldn't be caught. 637 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:17,320 With what Elahi told him, he took that on board. 638 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:20,040 He refined it and started using, 639 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:23,120 you know, different ways of communications 640 00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:27,400 to try and hinder any kind of investigation against him. 641 00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:37,400 We trawled through... thousands and thousands of lines of data 642 00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:41,640 and gone through all phone numbers, hundreds and hundreds of emails. 643 00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:45,280 Obviously, the platform is Sugar Daddy. 644 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,120 That's the number ending 3-2-1 that we know is Burns's, 645 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:52,280 how we know it's his, and also, that's the name 646 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,480 that he's used on that particular site. 647 00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,800 That's good for Sugar Daddy, but then the one at the bottom, 648 00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,680 Seeking Arrangements, it's the same mobile number, 649 00:47:01,720 --> 00:47:05,040 but he's using the name Dominant... AUDIO DIPS 650 00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:10,280 And within all those, there was one email in there from New Zealand 651 00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,320 which identified a cloud storage facility 652 00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:15,160 that Burns had purchased. 653 00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,480 And that was the game-changer. 654 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:26,400 In excess of half a million images and videos were downloaded. 655 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:30,520 Around about 95% of that was, erm, 656 00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:34,440 sexualised content of adult women or child abuse images. 657 00:47:40,240 --> 00:47:43,800 Now, simple "yes" or "no" for this, Anthony. 658 00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:49,320 Are you aware that we have managed to access your MEGA account? 659 00:47:51,720 --> 00:47:55,720 Right, so, we have been able to access your MEGA account, 660 00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:59,480 and there's a vast array of material in there. 661 00:48:03,240 --> 00:48:04,800 A treasure trove of evidence, 662 00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,880 because along with video recording whatever's on the screen, 663 00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,520 he recorded whatever occurred on the screen. 664 00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:14,280 So all the time he's abusing an individual, 665 00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:15,840 that is being recorded, 666 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:19,440 but he had a habit of answering phones and text messages 667 00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,080 and various other matters live on screen, 668 00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,800 obviously not either caring or not thinking 669 00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:26,360 that that would be recorded, as well. 670 00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:32,320 OFFICER: You received a WhatsApp message from your girlfriend, 671 00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:36,400 and she starts WhatsApping you, and you respond, 672 00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:40,640 and you talk about a film that you wanted to watch on Netflix. 673 00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:46,480 And then having had that brief WhatsApp chat, 674 00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:48,320 you return to the main screen. 675 00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,080 You then post on the WhatsApp 676 00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:56,000 a image of a female with her legs wide open. 677 00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:59,120 You put an emoji to cover her face, 678 00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:01,720 which again, other victims have said, 679 00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,160 "He sends me images. He covers the face with emojis." 680 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:06,400 Is that what you've done? 681 00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,080 OFFICER: Are you aware of this MEGA account? 682 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:35,600 Is it your MEGA account? 683 00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:43,160 The user changed the email or Gmail address. 684 00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,480 Is that your Gmail account, Anthony? 685 00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,960 STEVE COLMAN: There was approximately 500,000 images 686 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,240 contained within that server. 687 00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,920 Well, all the material had to be reviewed, 688 00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:10,360 and it was a case of it was really a lot of the same, 689 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,280 where he would follow the same pattern, and... 690 00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,360 ..not that you would have become immune to it, 691 00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,480 but you were going through a process. 692 00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,480 OFFICER: So, this is a adult female. 693 00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:28,760 We recovered a video of her from your MEGA account. 694 00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:30,600 You were offering her money. 695 00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:34,880 You wanted to engage in sexual acts, striptease. 696 00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,200 She masturbates, which is a common theme 697 00:50:38,240 --> 00:50:40,600 throughout all the requests that you make. 698 00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,880 Is there any reason why her number should be in your phone? 699 00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,080 And then the video continues, 700 00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:54,200 and she's performed the sexual acts that you want. 701 00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:59,000 However, it takes a much more sinister turn. 702 00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:04,600 And then suddenly, the camera panned round, 703 00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,480 and there were two children in the room. 704 00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:11,880 And then it became very dark. 705 00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:19,640 Burns was directing the mother to abuse her eight-year-old daughter. 706 00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:24,960 And then... 707 00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:28,240 during all that, you then get a message from your mother. 708 00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:31,200 She's actually asking what you want for your tea. 709 00:51:31,240 --> 00:51:34,320 So whilst you've been encouraging this girl 710 00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,280 to abuse her children, or a child, 711 00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:39,520 you're having a WhatsApp chat with your mother. 712 00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:42,720 And that abuse goes on, Anthony. 713 00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:45,680 Why have you screen recorded it? 714 00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:52,000 Why have you saved it into your MEGA account? 715 00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,720 They were able to directly link Burns 716 00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:03,480 to the coercion of the mother of the child 717 00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:06,680 to carry out the most horrendous sexual abuse 718 00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:09,640 on her daughter for a concerted period of time. 719 00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:14,480 The US was contacted through our International Liaison Officer, 720 00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:17,040 and within a very short period of time, 721 00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:19,040 the female was identified. 722 00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:21,880 She was arrested, and the two children were safeguarded. 723 00:52:24,720 --> 00:52:28,160 This was a new level, which was absolutely abhorrent 724 00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:31,200 and clearly formed the actual centre 725 00:52:31,240 --> 00:52:34,160 of what our prosecution against Burns was gonna look like. 726 00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:40,400 Would you offer money to females to abuse their children? 727 00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:51,240 You clearly have a sexual interest in children, Anthony. 728 00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:56,240 It appears that you've continued... that same vein 729 00:52:56,280 --> 00:53:00,120 of encouraging mothers to abuse their own children 730 00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,480 for your sexualised delectation. 731 00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:05,760 'But to get a successful prosecution, 732 00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:07,680 'we needed the victims to attend court.' 733 00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,680 I was contacted by the NCA, 734 00:53:12,720 --> 00:53:15,520 and they said, "Would it be possible to come and see you?" 735 00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:21,240 So we'd booked an interview at my home, 736 00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:24,760 and they sat down with me and just explained everything. 737 00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:33,320 'There was a full backstory to him that none of us knew, really.' 738 00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,360 Yeah, he's a very, very dangerous person. 739 00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,760 The pre-sentence reports had already determined 740 00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,680 that Burns should be considered as being dangerous. 741 00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:48,960 We'd had 32 victims of blackmail, malicious communications, 742 00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:52,520 or causing a child to engage in sexual activity. 743 00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,720 We have to be prepared for him to go, "Not guilty," 744 00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,240 and that's very difficult, especially for the victims. 745 00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:03,080 In relation to the 32 victims, 746 00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:06,560 he pleaded not guilty and intended to run a full trial. 747 00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:11,800 'I think he was trying to manipulate the system, if I'm honest.' 748 00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:13,240 He tried to... 749 00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,160 ..prevent us going to see him 750 00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:19,880 and interviewing him a number of times. 751 00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,640 He showed absolutely no remorse, ever. 752 00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:31,760 Burns will start what Burns wanted to do all the way along, 753 00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:35,120 which is just cause as many difficulties as he possibly can. 754 00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:40,440 He would refuse to turn up to court. 755 00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:43,320 He would threaten to sack his legal team. 756 00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:46,320 He would pretend to be ill and unable to come to court. 757 00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:48,000 He would try to claim 758 00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:50,080 that he was going to plead guilty to some offences. 759 00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:52,480 It came to the magic day where he was due to, 760 00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:54,360 and that everyone had been brought together 761 00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,000 from across the country for him to enter his pleas, 762 00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:59,520 and he would say that the conditions in prison weren't right 763 00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:00,640 for him to plead guilty. 764 00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:02,400 He hadn't been fed his meal that day. 765 00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:04,920 Every excuse you could possibly come up with, 766 00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:08,720 he found as being a reason why he wouldn't accept his guilt. 767 00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:11,920 I would say that there is a potential that Burns believes 768 00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,720 that the mere fact that they would have to stand up and give evidence 769 00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:16,800 against him in court would be so disturbing 770 00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:18,640 and so frightening for them, 771 00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:20,960 it would be enough to deter them from attending court. 772 00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:22,520 So I think there's a real possibility 773 00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:24,240 that that could have been in his mindset. 774 00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:41,680 When we were going to trial 775 00:55:41,720 --> 00:55:46,080 and I was told that Burns was deciding to plead not guilty 776 00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,120 and I would have to go in and give evidence, 777 00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:50,560 it forced me to relive something I wasn't... 778 00:55:51,720 --> 00:55:53,000 ..wanting to. 779 00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:56,360 So, we arrive at July 2023. 780 00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:58,640 Even up to the Friday before the trial, 781 00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,560 Burns is intending to plead not guilty. 782 00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:03,080 But on the Monday, 783 00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:08,240 he initially accepted a number of pleas as guilty, 784 00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:11,560 on the understanding that the Crown 785 00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:14,160 would discontinue all the other offences. 786 00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,560 But the decision was made that because the evidence 787 00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:21,960 was so overwhelming, we would run a trial on all of them. 788 00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:28,320 I... was extremely nervous, 789 00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:30,520 extremely paranoid, in a way, as well, 790 00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:33,480 because, again, it's the fear of the unknown. 791 00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:35,440 I didn't know what was going to happen. 792 00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:40,280 I was on the phone to my partner at the time, 793 00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:41,880 just going, "I don't think I can do this. 794 00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,040 "I don't think I can do it. I really don't." 795 00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:46,840 I remember meeting her at the train station, 796 00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,240 and I could tell she was nervous... 797 00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:52,320 ..quite softly spoken. 798 00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:56,000 But there was, like, an inner strength there, 799 00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:58,080 and I think she just needed 800 00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:01,840 to see Burns get sentenced and get sent to prison. 801 00:57:04,720 --> 00:57:07,360 When he did eventually start pleading guilty to anything, 802 00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:08,840 it was the bare minimum, 803 00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:12,200 the lower offences that he would plead guilty to. 804 00:57:12,240 --> 00:57:14,400 And with each hearing, we moved along, 805 00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:15,960 count by count, almost, 806 00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:19,000 where he would accept probably the next most serious one along, 807 00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:20,880 until he was left in a position 808 00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:23,640 which was undefendable for most counts, 809 00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:27,120 other than the very last one, which he held and fought, 810 00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:29,200 despite all the evidence against him. 811 00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:38,560 He pleaded not guilty to the most serious one, 812 00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:41,680 which was inciting the sexual activity with a child. 813 00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:47,000 OFFICER: It's an eight-year-old child, that, Anthony. 814 00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:04,080 OFFICER: The more sinister acts, 815 00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:09,720 it's when the adult offender abuses her eight-year-old daughter. 816 00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,360 And you're screen recording it all the time. 817 00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:18,000 The jury was showed horrendous material 818 00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:21,160 of an eight-year-old child being sexually abused. 819 00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,280 He was not prepared to accept that was him 820 00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:28,800 and tried to run a defence based on the idea 821 00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:31,240 that he wasn't directing what had occurred, 822 00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,160 he wasn't involved in what had occurred, 823 00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:35,000 and someone had sent the abuse to him, 824 00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:38,560 even though it showed images from his own phone. 825 00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:43,480 Before I turn the tapes off, Anthony, 826 00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:45,680 is there anything that you'd like to add 827 00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:47,280 to anything that's been said 828 00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:49,680 in this interview or previous interviews? 829 00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:55,360 Right. I shall end the interview. 830 00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:00,240 Burns remained defiant to the end - "I will fight this. 831 00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:02,080 "I will have the last bit of control 832 00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:04,960 "until it is wrestled out of my hand by the jury." 833 00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:10,960 Burns did not give any evidence in his defence, 834 00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:13,960 and the jury returned guilty verdicts 835 00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:15,960 after two hours of deliberation. 836 00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:28,160 We were happy that we weren't having a full trial. 837 00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:30,760 We were relieved that all of the witnesses 838 00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:32,240 didn't have to give evidence. 839 00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:36,560 I didn't get to testify because he pled guilty, 840 00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:40,720 but I was able to go to court and read a victim impact statement. 841 00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:44,400 The victims were given the opportunity of reading 842 00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:46,360 their victim impact statements. 843 00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:49,200 It took great courage to stand up... 844 00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:53,720 ..and tell the court how this offending 845 00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:55,160 had impacted their lives. 846 00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:57,560 It was immensely emotional. 847 00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:03,560 So, you know, even for the investigation team. 848 01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:05,680 I think you could hear a pin drop. 849 01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:11,400 "My depression and anxiety was without doubt 850 01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:15,120 "caused by not only the fear of the images being shared online, 851 01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:17,840 "but also by him knowing where I was. 852 01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:19,000 "I did not feel safe..." 853 01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:21,120 "I convinced myself that he could find me 854 01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:23,200 "and that he would come and sexually attack me 855 01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:24,320 "or even murder me. 856 01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:28,440 "I was absolutely terrified and was a shell of myself..." 857 01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:30,680 "..not actually put into words how this incident 858 01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:35,080 "has to date damaged me physically and emotionally in every way. 859 01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:37,160 "It is not an understatement to say 860 01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:39,520 "that this incident has ruined my life." 861 01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:49,080 I think we had five or six really brave victims who came, 862 01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:52,520 stood up in court, and read out the statements. 863 01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:55,400 And obviously, knowing that he's in the courtroom, as well. 864 01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:57,880 And although it was very tough... 865 01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:01,320 ..they said they were glad they were able to do it. 866 01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:06,320 That was the first day I saw him, his face. 867 01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:09,560 Just him. That was him. 868 01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:13,040 That was the person that took everything away from me. 869 01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:18,720 Anybody that comes forward to even give a statement, 870 01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:21,760 you have to respect, because for sexual offences, 871 01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:24,520 it's not gonna be the easiest because you're talking about things 872 01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:27,360 that are normally very intimate to that person. 873 01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:30,840 I just think it shows a real strength of character. 874 01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:34,120 We showed him that we regained that power from him. 875 01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:37,600 So in a sense, yeah, it was frightening, but... 876 01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:41,600 ..we took something back from him that he took from us. 877 01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:48,680 I looked around just to see what his reaction was. 878 01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:52,360 He had no reaction whatsoever. It was just cold. 879 01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:55,320 He was convicted of a number of offences, 880 01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:57,920 including conspiracy to blackmail - 881 01:01:57,960 --> 01:02:02,120 which was the offence that he committed with Abdul Elahi - 882 01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:05,800 his stand-alone blackmail offences, 883 01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:08,160 malicious communication, 884 01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:10,640 causing the exploitation of a child, 885 01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:14,040 and causing a child to engage in sexual activity - 886 01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:17,360 those two offences in relation to the child in America - 887 01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:21,320 and also a number of indecent image offences, 888 01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:24,880 including distribution of indecent images of children. 889 01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:31,000 It was a brutal experience 890 01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:35,320 because I'd had to go through everything several times over. 891 01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:38,560 Erm, but... 892 01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:41,880 ..he's gone now. 893 01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:45,440 He's in prison, and that's where he belongs. 894 01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:52,400 24 years. 895 01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:55,120 I think we as a team were absolutely delighted with that. 896 01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:58,560 I think it appropriately reflected the nature of his criminality 897 01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:00,920 and the harm that he had caused to those individuals. 898 01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:06,240 The judge specifically mentioned the fact 899 01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:09,120 that throughout the entire proceedings, 900 01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:12,800 Burns had shown no remorse at all, 901 01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:16,120 and even the offences that he'd pleaded guilty to, 902 01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:19,800 he wasn't pleading guilty to them out of remorse for his victims. 903 01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:26,120 We all came together at the end of it when he was... 904 01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:27,400 when he got his sentence, 905 01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:32,320 and we just had this huge, like, cuddle between all of us, 906 01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:37,320 including the National Crime guys, and we formed friendships forever. 907 01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:42,520 So him kind of doing that to all of us 908 01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:46,200 has kind of made us a lot more... a lot stronger. 909 01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:55,280 What we saw from this investigation 910 01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:58,200 is that there are so many vulnerable people out there 911 01:03:58,240 --> 01:03:59,760 for a whole host of different reasons 912 01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:02,440 who are susceptible to individuals like this 913 01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:04,480 who prey on those very vulnerabilities. 914 01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:14,480 Anybody who is considering sending sexualised images on the internet 915 01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:19,560 just need to think... that once that image is sent, 916 01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:21,240 they can never recover it, 917 01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:25,040 and that person that you're sending it to 918 01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:30,320 can be having it purely to victimise you and to blackmail you. 919 01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:34,800 I've been in law enforcement over 30 years now, 920 01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:38,160 but some of the things that Burns did were amongst the worst 921 01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:40,160 that I've ever experienced in my career. 922 01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:47,200 When you get home, what do you tell your missus? 923 01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:50,480 Well, a lot of the time, she'll ask me, 924 01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:51,800 "Have I had a good day?" 925 01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:54,920 And if I say no, I think she realises 926 01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:57,440 that I don't really wanna talk about what's happened. Yeah. 927 01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:00,160 Mine is. I just don't... just don't talk about it. 928 01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:01,440 It's not a subject matter 929 01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:04,200 that the normal person would want to discuss. No. 930 01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:10,960 When you're in law enforcement for so long, 931 01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:15,880 you think you can deal with anything and you're made of strong stuff. 932 01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:20,960 However, the severity of the offending 933 01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:24,080 on the last set of cases that I dealt with 934 01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:29,240 contributed to why I just couldn't do it any more. 935 01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:31,400 It takes its toll. It really does. 936 01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:35,880 You've just seen enough, or you've seen too much. 937 01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:40,760 And it really did make me, erm, sick... 938 01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:45,240 ..sick with it all in the end. 939 01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:48,080 I thought, "I can't do it any more." That's why I retired. 940 01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:58,840 'Still, to this day, I don't know 941 01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:01,600 'if any of the material's gone anywhere. 942 01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:03,240 'You know, I've been told it hasn't.' 943 01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:08,080 It's on a hard drive that belonged to him and on his iCloud. 944 01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:12,440 'But you don't know if they've sent them to anyone else. 945 01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:17,360 As much as people say, "Just forget about it," 946 01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:19,840 you can't just forget about these things. 947 01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:21,360 It just doesn't happen.