1 00:00:13,860 --> 00:00:16,380 ANNOUNCER: Please make sure you have your tickets ready. 2 00:00:16,380 --> 00:00:16,620 ANNOUNCER: Please make sure you have your tickets ready. (CHEERING) 3 00:00:16,620 --> 00:00:19,900 (CHEERING) 4 00:00:19,900 --> 00:00:23,540 COMMENTATOR: And Queensland are gonna do it again! 5 00:00:23,540 --> 00:00:24,780 (CHEERING) 6 00:00:24,780 --> 00:00:28,220 PAT MCGRATH: These are the moments sports-obsessed Australians live for. 7 00:00:28,220 --> 00:00:28,460 PAT MCGRATH: These are the moments (CHEERING) 8 00:00:28,460 --> 00:00:29,820 (CHEERING) 9 00:00:29,820 --> 00:00:31,420 COMMENTATOR: It's Sammy Silvera! 10 00:00:31,420 --> 00:00:33,220 (CHEERING) 11 00:00:33,220 --> 00:00:34,900 COMMENTATOR: That is extraordinary! 12 00:00:34,900 --> 00:00:37,380 (WHISTLE BLOWS) COMMENTATOR: Almost take a point! 13 00:00:37,380 --> 00:00:38,940 (CHEERING) Almost! 14 00:00:38,940 --> 00:00:41,260 (CHEERING) He'll take that every time! 15 00:00:41,260 --> 00:00:41,500 (CHEERING) (CHEERING) 16 00:00:41,500 --> 00:00:44,220 (CHEERING) 17 00:00:44,220 --> 00:00:45,900 But the games we love 18 00:00:45,900 --> 00:00:50,340 have become deeply entwined with another national obsession. 19 00:00:50,340 --> 00:00:53,060 PRESENTER: First of all let's quickly check in with Sportsbet. 20 00:00:53,060 --> 00:00:55,820 You've got advertising soaked all the way through it. 21 00:00:55,820 --> 00:00:57,900 COMMENTATOR: Taking their time getting back on side. 22 00:00:57,900 --> 00:01:03,300 Gambling strips more than $20 billion out of the community every year. 23 00:01:03,300 --> 00:01:06,660 That's more per person than any other nation. 24 00:01:06,660 --> 00:01:06,900 That's more per person (CHEERING) 25 00:01:06,900 --> 00:01:08,020 (CHEERING) 26 00:01:08,020 --> 00:01:10,260 We're the biggest losers in the world when it comes to gambling. 27 00:01:10,260 --> 00:01:11,980 That's not something we should be proud of. 28 00:01:11,980 --> 00:01:12,940 COMMENTATOR: It's all over! 29 00:01:12,940 --> 00:01:15,860 CATHERINE ORDWAY: It's rife and it's become so normalised 30 00:01:15,860 --> 00:01:17,340 that the rest of the world is wondering 31 00:01:17,340 --> 00:01:17,580 that the rest of the world what on earth Australia is doing. 32 00:01:17,580 --> 00:01:19,340 what on earth Australia is doing. 33 00:01:19,340 --> 00:01:21,180 (CHEERING) 34 00:01:22,140 --> 00:01:26,660 The gambling giants have infiltrated the lowest levels of sport. 35 00:01:27,620 --> 00:01:30,740 It IS a little obscure that it would happen at this level I must admit. 36 00:01:30,740 --> 00:01:33,700 South Springvale, Melbourne Srbija. It's quite extreme, isn't it? 37 00:01:33,700 --> 00:01:33,940 South Springvale, Melbourne Srbija. (LAUGHS) It's way too much. 38 00:01:33,940 --> 00:01:35,540 (LAUGHS) It's way too much. 39 00:01:36,620 --> 00:01:38,860 Do the clubs know that you're here? Uh... No. 40 00:01:38,860 --> 00:01:39,980 COMMENTATOR: The stats there... 41 00:01:39,980 --> 00:01:43,300 We expose the secretive deals in the big leagues. 42 00:01:43,300 --> 00:01:43,540 We expose the secretive deals What do you make of this agreement? 43 00:01:43,540 --> 00:01:44,980 What do you make of this agreement? 44 00:01:44,980 --> 00:01:45,220 It would have to convert What do you make of this agreement? 45 00:01:45,220 --> 00:01:47,740 It would have to convert to an incredible source of revenue 46 00:01:47,740 --> 00:01:47,980 It would have to convert for the code. 47 00:01:47,980 --> 00:01:48,820 for the code. 48 00:01:48,820 --> 00:01:50,300 (CHEERING) 49 00:01:50,300 --> 00:01:52,100 On this episode of Four Corners 50 00:01:52,100 --> 00:01:52,340 we reveal On this episode of Four Corners 51 00:01:52,340 --> 00:01:54,580 we reveal how the global gambling industry 52 00:01:54,580 --> 00:01:57,100 is tightening its grip on Australian sport. 53 00:01:57,100 --> 00:02:00,900 You can see its influence at almost every level of competition. 54 00:02:00,900 --> 00:02:01,180 You can see its influence at almost every level of competition. And there are signs clubs, players and fans have had enough 55 00:02:01,180 --> 00:02:04,860 And there are signs clubs, players and fans have had enough 56 00:02:04,860 --> 00:02:06,660 and change is coming. 57 00:02:16,220 --> 00:02:18,020 SPECTATOR: Hey, Pete! Take a photo of me! 58 00:02:18,020 --> 00:02:18,260 SPECTATOR: Hey, Pete! (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 59 00:02:18,260 --> 00:02:21,180 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 60 00:02:21,180 --> 00:02:22,260 (SPIT SIZZLES) 61 00:02:22,260 --> 00:02:25,340 SPECTATOR: Keep going, Andy! Keep going, Andy! 62 00:02:25,340 --> 00:02:25,580 SPECTATOR: Keep going, Andy! (SPIT SIZZLES) 63 00:02:25,580 --> 00:02:27,860 (SPIT SIZZLES) 64 00:02:27,860 --> 00:02:31,060 (CHEERING) 65 00:02:31,060 --> 00:02:35,460 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 66 00:02:35,460 --> 00:02:37,660 SPECTATOR: Come on, boys! 67 00:02:38,620 --> 00:02:40,860 JIM SIMOS: South Springvale has been around since '68, 68 00:02:40,860 --> 00:02:42,780 formed by Greek immigrants predominantly. 69 00:02:42,780 --> 00:02:44,140 A lot of the people that started the club 70 00:02:44,140 --> 00:02:44,380 A lot of the people are still part of the club now, 71 00:02:44,380 --> 00:02:45,380 are still part of the club now, 72 00:02:45,380 --> 00:02:45,580 so, it's got that whole-family vibe. are still part of the club now, 73 00:02:45,580 --> 00:02:47,620 so, it's got that whole-family vibe. 74 00:02:51,300 --> 00:02:52,700 It's game day, 75 00:02:52,700 --> 00:02:56,580 and South Springvale Football Club president, Jim Simos, is anxious. 76 00:02:56,580 --> 00:02:56,820 and South Springvale Football Club (WHISTLE BLOWS) 77 00:02:56,820 --> 00:02:57,780 (WHISTLE BLOWS) 78 00:02:57,780 --> 00:02:59,460 Come on! 79 00:02:59,460 --> 00:03:01,540 Here! Here! Here! 80 00:03:01,540 --> 00:03:03,020 Get up! Get up! 81 00:03:03,020 --> 00:03:06,060 How's everyone feeling about today? JIM SIMOS: Nervous. Nervous. 82 00:03:06,060 --> 00:03:08,060 Always the case when there's a big game on. 83 00:03:08,060 --> 00:03:10,340 So, it'd be a good atmosphere, a good game. Tough game. 84 00:03:10,340 --> 00:03:10,580 So, it'd be a good atmosphere, Go! Go, Steven! Go! 85 00:03:10,580 --> 00:03:12,500 Go! Go, Steven! Go! 86 00:03:12,500 --> 00:03:18,060 South Springvale's top team plays in State League 1 South-East - 87 00:03:18,060 --> 00:03:21,740 a fifth-grade competition in Melbourne's suburbs. 88 00:03:23,020 --> 00:03:24,500 (CHEERING) 89 00:03:24,500 --> 00:03:26,980 JIM SIMOS: It is purely an amateur competition - 90 00:03:26,980 --> 00:03:28,500 we've got plumbers, we've got electricians, 91 00:03:28,500 --> 00:03:28,740 we've got plumbers, we've even got a doctor. 92 00:03:28,740 --> 00:03:29,940 we've even got a doctor. 93 00:03:29,940 --> 00:03:32,420 There's 17-, 18-year-olds out there 'cause they're part of the club, 94 00:03:32,420 --> 00:03:34,220 and that's the sort of environment we want to keep. 95 00:03:34,220 --> 00:03:35,580 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 96 00:03:35,580 --> 00:03:37,180 At the edge of the field 97 00:03:37,180 --> 00:03:40,340 one spectator watches every move. 98 00:03:43,860 --> 00:03:47,060 You might have been at a local game, seen someone like this 99 00:03:47,060 --> 00:03:47,300 You might have been at a local game, and wondered what they're up to. 100 00:03:47,300 --> 00:03:49,700 and wondered what they're up to. 101 00:03:49,700 --> 00:03:52,260 He's what's known as a data scout 102 00:03:52,260 --> 00:03:56,540 and works for Swiss multinational company Sportradar, 103 00:03:56,540 --> 00:03:59,900 which specialises in collecting live data at sporting events. 104 00:04:03,900 --> 00:04:05,660 CALLER: So, yet no outcome? 105 00:04:05,660 --> 00:04:09,220 These live updates are sent to bookmakers 106 00:04:09,220 --> 00:04:12,380 so punters can bet on the game in real time. 107 00:04:12,380 --> 00:04:16,420 This is what you'll see if you log on to one of those betting sites. 108 00:04:20,620 --> 00:04:24,900 We found several bookmakers offering bets on this game 109 00:04:24,900 --> 00:04:29,180 to millions of potential gamblers in Australia and around the world. 110 00:04:29,180 --> 00:04:32,020 Who would want to bet on this level of soccer? 111 00:04:32,020 --> 00:04:34,860 JIM SIMOS: I don't know, I don't understand it, 112 00:04:34,860 --> 00:04:37,340 being such a small, part-time football, really - 113 00:04:37,340 --> 00:04:38,580 and that's all it is, just volunteers and kids 114 00:04:38,580 --> 00:04:38,820 and that's all it is, coming out and having fun. 115 00:04:38,820 --> 00:04:39,700 coming out and having fun. 116 00:04:39,700 --> 00:04:41,140 Win it! Win it! 117 00:04:43,540 --> 00:04:46,220 I think betting on amateur football altogether, 118 00:04:46,220 --> 00:04:46,460 I think betting on amateur football it's just probably not on. 119 00:04:46,460 --> 00:04:48,460 it's just probably not on. 120 00:04:48,460 --> 00:04:49,660 These are the odds. 121 00:04:49,660 --> 00:04:52,820 One of the biggest bookmakers, Bet365, 122 00:04:52,820 --> 00:04:54,540 is offering all kinds of bets on this match. 123 00:04:54,540 --> 00:04:54,780 is offering all kinds of bets Hold the line! 124 00:04:54,780 --> 00:04:55,980 Hold the line! 125 00:04:55,980 --> 00:04:57,740 Hold the line! You can bet on everything. 126 00:04:57,740 --> 00:05:01,100 You can bet on who's going to be leading at half time, full time, 127 00:05:01,100 --> 00:05:02,340 half time in a draw. 128 00:05:02,340 --> 00:05:05,060 I mean, just the detail they go down to here, 129 00:05:05,060 --> 00:05:05,300 I mean, just the detail it's quite extreme, isn't it? 130 00:05:05,300 --> 00:05:06,540 it's quite extreme, isn't it? 131 00:05:06,540 --> 00:05:08,380 It's way too much. 132 00:05:08,380 --> 00:05:08,620 No, mate, as long as we're leading It's way too much. 133 00:05:08,620 --> 00:05:10,940 No, mate, as long as we're leading after 90 minutes, 134 00:05:10,940 --> 00:05:11,180 No, mate, as long as we're leading that's all I care about. 135 00:05:11,180 --> 00:05:12,900 that's all I care about. 136 00:05:12,900 --> 00:05:15,460 That's what all the folks here would care about. 137 00:05:15,460 --> 00:05:15,700 That's what all the folks here (INDISTINCT YELLING) 138 00:05:15,700 --> 00:05:17,620 (INDISTINCT YELLING) 139 00:05:17,620 --> 00:05:20,100 Parents who are here to support their children 140 00:05:20,100 --> 00:05:23,740 can't understand how betting is allowed on these games. 141 00:05:23,740 --> 00:05:23,980 can't understand how betting Did you have any awareness 142 00:05:23,980 --> 00:05:25,220 Did you have any awareness 143 00:05:25,220 --> 00:05:26,780 that there's betting at this level of soccer? 144 00:05:26,780 --> 00:05:27,020 that there's betting No, not until you told me about it. 145 00:05:27,020 --> 00:05:29,780 No, not until you told me about it. 146 00:05:29,780 --> 00:05:31,060 What do you think about that? 147 00:05:31,060 --> 00:05:34,900 I think it's so wrong. I think it's really, really wrong. 148 00:05:34,900 --> 00:05:35,140 I think it's so wrong. I don't agree with it at all. 149 00:05:35,140 --> 00:05:36,500 I don't agree with it at all. 150 00:05:36,500 --> 00:05:37,780 Why? 151 00:05:37,780 --> 00:05:38,020 Because the focus Why? 152 00:05:38,020 --> 00:05:41,980 Because the focus should be on fun, enjoyment, 153 00:05:41,980 --> 00:05:42,220 Because the focus watching the game, family, 154 00:05:42,220 --> 00:05:44,540 watching the game, family, 155 00:05:44,540 --> 00:05:46,660 and I think it just would ruin it. 156 00:05:46,660 --> 00:05:48,740 Somehow they need to stamp it out. 157 00:05:49,700 --> 00:05:51,340 Out! Get it! 158 00:05:52,740 --> 00:05:56,580 Later I caught up with the data scout. 159 00:05:56,580 --> 00:06:00,860 Does Sportradar have to ask permission from the clubs to be here? 160 00:06:00,860 --> 00:06:02,220 DATA COLLECTOR: Permission? 161 00:06:02,220 --> 00:06:04,220 Mm. I'm not sure. Yeah. 162 00:06:04,220 --> 00:06:07,700 Do the clubs know that you're here usually collecting the data? 163 00:06:07,700 --> 00:06:08,980 Uh... No. 164 00:06:09,940 --> 00:06:11,540 He doesn't want to be named, 165 00:06:11,540 --> 00:06:17,740 but we know he's one of about 5,000 data scouts working for Sportradar. 166 00:06:17,740 --> 00:06:19,780 Do you know much about Sportradar, 167 00:06:19,780 --> 00:06:21,900 like who they are and what they do as a business? 168 00:06:21,900 --> 00:06:22,140 like who they are DATA COLLECTOR: Uh... 169 00:06:22,140 --> 00:06:23,220 DATA COLLECTOR: Uh... 170 00:06:23,220 --> 00:06:25,180 I think Sportradar 171 00:06:25,180 --> 00:06:25,420 is a data company I think Sportradar 172 00:06:25,420 --> 00:06:28,820 is a data company and analyse the sports game. 173 00:06:28,820 --> 00:06:34,500 A lot of people think of Sportradar as sort of a betting-data company. 174 00:06:34,500 --> 00:06:34,740 A lot of people think of Sportradar Uh... (CHUCKLES) 175 00:06:34,740 --> 00:06:36,300 Uh... (CHUCKLES) 176 00:06:36,300 --> 00:06:38,060 Actually, I don't know about that. 177 00:06:38,060 --> 00:06:38,300 Don't know? Actually, I don't know about that. 178 00:06:38,300 --> 00:06:39,060 Don't know? Yeah. 179 00:06:39,060 --> 00:06:41,580 We were having a look, but the live data 180 00:06:41,580 --> 00:06:44,100 from the reserves game and this game 181 00:06:44,100 --> 00:06:48,380 was ending up on international gambling sites like Bet365 182 00:06:48,380 --> 00:06:49,580 and lots of other gambling sites like that. 183 00:06:49,580 --> 00:06:52,100 Uh... Actually, I'm not sure about that. 184 00:06:52,100 --> 00:06:54,580 Probably, but I'm not sure. 185 00:06:54,580 --> 00:06:57,700 I just collect the data and go to my... 186 00:06:57,700 --> 00:06:59,740 ..I send the data to my supervisor. 187 00:06:59,740 --> 00:07:01,420 Out! Get it out! 188 00:07:01,420 --> 00:07:05,260 Even he believes betting shouldn't be allowed on amateur soccer. 189 00:07:05,260 --> 00:07:05,500 Even he believes betting shouldn't If it is ending up on betting sites 190 00:07:05,500 --> 00:07:07,900 If it is ending up on betting sites 191 00:07:07,900 --> 00:07:08,140 like Bet365 If it is ending up on betting sites 192 00:07:08,140 --> 00:07:10,380 like Bet365 and these other betting sites, 193 00:07:10,380 --> 00:07:11,620 what do you think about that? 194 00:07:11,620 --> 00:07:14,180 Do you think they should be betting on games at this level? 195 00:07:14,180 --> 00:07:14,420 Do you think they should be betting Uh... (SIGHS) 196 00:07:14,420 --> 00:07:15,620 Uh... (SIGHS) 197 00:07:15,620 --> 00:07:17,660 No. It's too low-level. 198 00:07:17,660 --> 00:07:20,500 (INDISTINCT YELLING) 199 00:07:20,500 --> 00:07:23,900 Sportradar declined our interview request. 200 00:07:23,900 --> 00:07:26,980 In a statement it said it's one of several companies 201 00:07:26,980 --> 00:07:29,620 collecting data at Australian sporting events. 202 00:07:29,620 --> 00:07:32,140 It confirmed the information IS distributed 203 00:07:32,140 --> 00:07:32,380 It confirmed to licensed bookmakers worldwide. 204 00:07:32,380 --> 00:07:34,660 to licensed bookmakers worldwide. 205 00:07:34,660 --> 00:07:36,500 PRASAD KANITKAR: There's, you know, data scouts 206 00:07:36,500 --> 00:07:36,780 working at these games and punching in what's happening, PRASAD KANITKAR: There's, you know, data scouts 207 00:07:36,780 --> 00:07:39,180 working at these games and punching in what's happening, 208 00:07:39,180 --> 00:07:39,420 working at these games and, you know, we have the tools 209 00:07:39,420 --> 00:07:40,780 and, you know, we have the tools 210 00:07:40,780 --> 00:07:42,780 and, you know, the formulas, the algorithms 211 00:07:42,780 --> 00:07:43,020 and, you know, to work out the prices. 212 00:07:43,020 --> 00:07:44,820 to work out the prices. 213 00:07:46,180 --> 00:07:49,940 Former gambling-industry insider Prasad Kanitkar 214 00:07:49,940 --> 00:07:50,180 Former gambling-industry insider knows how valuable sports data is. 215 00:07:50,180 --> 00:07:52,780 knows how valuable sports data is. 216 00:07:52,780 --> 00:07:55,660 How dependent are the bookmakers on those data scouts? 217 00:07:55,660 --> 00:07:57,420 Oh, very, very heavily dependent. 218 00:07:57,420 --> 00:07:59,900 A lot of sports simply wouldn't have gambling on them 219 00:07:59,900 --> 00:08:01,740 if it wasn't for the data scouts. 220 00:08:01,740 --> 00:08:05,020 Often we don't have live-streaming or live pictures 221 00:08:05,020 --> 00:08:06,260 of what's happening, 222 00:08:06,260 --> 00:08:11,540 so, they're our one and only source often for sporting events. 223 00:08:12,780 --> 00:08:17,340 Welcome to the world's favourite online betting company. 224 00:08:17,340 --> 00:08:18,100 This season... 225 00:08:18,100 --> 00:08:22,180 He was a trader with gambling giant Bet365 226 00:08:22,180 --> 00:08:22,420 He was a trader and watched the deluge of live data, 227 00:08:22,420 --> 00:08:24,700 and watched the deluge of live data, 228 00:08:24,700 --> 00:08:27,900 which he used to set odds and lure punters. 229 00:08:29,740 --> 00:08:31,980 Who are your customers, is it just Australians 230 00:08:31,980 --> 00:08:33,700 or is it a global customer base? 231 00:08:33,700 --> 00:08:35,860 No, it's very much a global customer base. 232 00:08:35,860 --> 00:08:39,180 A lot of Chinese customers that are betting on Bet365. 233 00:08:39,180 --> 00:08:42,140 It was get as many customers as we possibly could. 234 00:08:42,140 --> 00:08:45,420 Why would anyone want to bet on this level of competition? 235 00:08:45,420 --> 00:08:49,180 Yeah, I just don't think it matters to them, to be honest. 236 00:08:49,180 --> 00:08:52,100 If you can bet on something, people do. 237 00:08:52,100 --> 00:08:53,980 I think to them it is a bit like a casino 238 00:08:53,980 --> 00:08:57,300 where they might be just looking at what's on, 239 00:08:57,300 --> 00:08:57,540 where they might be just looking what they can put a bet on, 240 00:08:57,540 --> 00:08:58,860 what they can put a bet on, 241 00:08:58,860 --> 00:08:59,100 clicking away on the website what they can put a bet on, 242 00:08:59,100 --> 00:09:01,500 clicking away on the website and hoping for the best. 243 00:09:03,660 --> 00:09:08,740 I can bet on over 780,000 different games just like... 244 00:09:08,740 --> 00:09:08,980 I can bet on over 780,000 (SNAPS FINGERS) ..that. 245 00:09:08,980 --> 00:09:10,420 (SNAPS FINGERS) ..that. 246 00:09:10,420 --> 00:09:11,900 On these suburban games, 247 00:09:11,900 --> 00:09:14,380 I mean, what kind of volume are we talking about in terms of betting? 248 00:09:14,380 --> 00:09:16,900 Yeah, you'd see, like, sort of tens of thousands of dollars 249 00:09:16,900 --> 00:09:18,060 per minute... 250 00:09:18,060 --> 00:09:18,300 Per minute? per minute... 251 00:09:18,300 --> 00:09:19,860 Per minute? Per minute. Yeah. 252 00:09:19,860 --> 00:09:21,500 On a suburban soccer game? Yeah. Absolutely. 253 00:09:21,500 --> 00:09:21,740 On a suburban soccer game? Bet365... 254 00:09:21,740 --> 00:09:23,020 Bet365... 255 00:09:23,020 --> 00:09:24,500 So, how much do you think in total 256 00:09:24,500 --> 00:09:24,740 would be bet on, say, So, how much do you think in total 257 00:09:24,740 --> 00:09:27,580 would be bet on, say, a suburban soccer game in Australia? 258 00:09:27,580 --> 00:09:27,820 would be bet on, say, Oh, it'd be millions. 259 00:09:27,820 --> 00:09:29,300 Oh, it'd be millions. 260 00:09:29,300 --> 00:09:30,900 Millions of dollars? Yeah. Yeah. 261 00:09:30,900 --> 00:09:31,140 Millions of dollars? And that's just one betting company? 262 00:09:31,140 --> 00:09:32,780 And that's just one betting company? 263 00:09:32,780 --> 00:09:34,060 Yep, that's right. 264 00:09:34,060 --> 00:09:36,260 Do you think anyone has any idea about this? 265 00:09:36,260 --> 00:09:39,500 That there's this volume of betting on this level of sport? 266 00:09:39,500 --> 00:09:42,620 No, if you're not in the industry, you wouldn't have a clue. 267 00:09:42,620 --> 00:09:46,420 Just the pure volume that you see, like, it's quite shocking. 268 00:09:46,420 --> 00:09:50,260 It's extremely profitable and it's just ever expanding. 269 00:09:50,260 --> 00:09:52,580 There's always more sports coming, available, 270 00:09:52,580 --> 00:09:52,820 There's always more sports more and more leagues available. 271 00:09:52,820 --> 00:09:54,300 more and more leagues available. 272 00:09:54,300 --> 00:09:54,540 It's a machine more and more leagues available. 273 00:09:54,540 --> 00:09:56,900 It's a machine that doesn't really stop. 274 00:09:56,900 --> 00:09:57,140 It's a machine We are members of Bet365. 275 00:09:57,140 --> 00:09:59,900 We are members of Bet365. 276 00:09:59,900 --> 00:10:03,380 Bet365 says only a small number of bets 277 00:10:03,380 --> 00:10:05,700 are placed on community soccer in Australia 278 00:10:05,700 --> 00:10:10,540 and the overall amounts gambled on these games are relatively low. 279 00:10:12,980 --> 00:10:15,300 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 280 00:10:15,300 --> 00:10:17,060 It's not just suburban soccer. 281 00:10:17,060 --> 00:10:17,300 Other community sports It's not just suburban soccer. 282 00:10:17,300 --> 00:10:20,180 Other community sports are being targeted too, 283 00:10:20,180 --> 00:10:24,740 global gambling companies following their every move. 284 00:10:24,740 --> 00:10:26,580 SIMON FITZGERALD: The opportunity to gamble on anything 285 00:10:26,580 --> 00:10:26,860 is very paramount in our society now, SIMON FITZGERALD: The opportunity to gamble on anything 286 00:10:26,860 --> 00:10:28,380 is very paramount in our society now, 287 00:10:28,380 --> 00:10:30,620 so, how do you avoid that? 288 00:10:30,620 --> 00:10:32,620 How do you hide that? It's almost impossible. 289 00:10:34,660 --> 00:10:36,540 Couple! Couple! Push! 290 00:10:36,540 --> 00:10:37,940 Couple! 291 00:10:37,940 --> 00:10:38,180 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) Couple! 292 00:10:38,180 --> 00:10:40,420 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) Oh! Oh! 293 00:10:40,420 --> 00:10:42,980 It's a Tuesday on Melbourne's outskirts, 294 00:10:42,980 --> 00:10:46,620 and this camera is live-streaming a club cricket match. 295 00:10:47,740 --> 00:10:49,300 (CHEERING) 296 00:10:49,300 --> 00:10:51,900 Hey! (APPLAUSE) 297 00:10:51,900 --> 00:10:53,740 SIMON FITZGERALD: We have some talented individuals, 298 00:10:53,740 --> 00:10:55,500 the teams aren't particularly consistent. 299 00:10:55,500 --> 00:10:58,620 To suggest it's at the premier level, it's a little off that. 300 00:11:00,100 --> 00:11:04,940 Data from the game is showing up on multiple offshore gambling sites. 301 00:11:04,940 --> 00:11:08,220 This surprises Maribyrnong Park's president. 302 00:11:09,180 --> 00:11:11,820 I think people are probably a little bemused about why, 303 00:11:11,820 --> 00:11:16,660 you know, a fourth-division club in the north-west corridor of Melbourne 304 00:11:16,660 --> 00:11:16,900 you know, a fourth-division club in is all of a sudden appearing 305 00:11:16,900 --> 00:11:18,340 is all of a sudden appearing 306 00:11:18,340 --> 00:11:18,580 and having odds available globally is all of a sudden appearing 307 00:11:18,580 --> 00:11:22,060 and having odds available globally to be bet on. 308 00:11:22,060 --> 00:11:25,140 It's very hard to understand how they could possibly judge odds 309 00:11:25,140 --> 00:11:27,220 because they wouldn't be particularly au fait 310 00:11:27,220 --> 00:11:27,460 because they wouldn't be with what's going on. 311 00:11:27,460 --> 00:11:28,740 with what's going on. 312 00:11:29,700 --> 00:11:31,900 There's no need for data scouts here. 313 00:11:31,900 --> 00:11:35,300 The live-streaming device endorsed by Cricket Australia 314 00:11:35,300 --> 00:11:35,540 The live-streaming device captures every moment. 315 00:11:35,540 --> 00:11:37,420 captures every moment. 316 00:11:39,060 --> 00:11:40,260 Oh, great shot. 317 00:11:40,260 --> 00:11:42,300 Go, Jessie! Crackin' shot! 318 00:11:43,820 --> 00:11:46,100 Do you think that there could be people gambling on this match 319 00:11:46,100 --> 00:11:46,340 Do you think that there could be watching that live feed right now? 320 00:11:46,340 --> 00:11:47,580 watching that live feed right now? 321 00:11:47,580 --> 00:11:50,060 (LAUGHS) I wouldn't have thought so until this afternoon. 322 00:11:50,060 --> 00:11:50,300 (LAUGHS) I wouldn't have thought so (LAUGHS) 323 00:11:50,300 --> 00:11:51,580 (LAUGHS) 324 00:11:51,580 --> 00:11:53,380 Until you... Until you rang me. 325 00:11:53,380 --> 00:11:55,540 I guess nothing's impossible. 326 00:11:55,540 --> 00:11:58,860 Now, I guess, people with an ulterior motive 327 00:11:58,860 --> 00:12:02,260 have access to more information in a live sense 328 00:12:02,260 --> 00:12:04,140 to see what's going on 329 00:12:04,140 --> 00:12:08,740 and, I guess, that's live betting in any sport at any level. 330 00:12:08,740 --> 00:12:10,940 It is a little obscure that it would happen at this level, though, 331 00:12:10,940 --> 00:12:11,180 It is a little obscure that it I must admit. 332 00:12:11,180 --> 00:12:12,820 I must admit. 333 00:12:14,260 --> 00:12:16,140 What the club doesn't know 334 00:12:16,140 --> 00:12:18,780 is the streaming service that's broadcasting this match 335 00:12:18,780 --> 00:12:19,020 is the streaming service is owned by data giant Sportradar. 336 00:12:19,020 --> 00:12:21,940 is owned by data giant Sportradar. 337 00:12:23,380 --> 00:12:25,700 Some of the players that are involved in this streaming, 338 00:12:25,700 --> 00:12:25,940 Some of the players you've got Sportradar in there. 339 00:12:25,940 --> 00:12:27,460 you've got Sportradar in there. 340 00:12:27,460 --> 00:12:29,940 Why do you think they want to get into that industry, 341 00:12:29,940 --> 00:12:31,300 into the streaming side of things? 342 00:12:31,300 --> 00:12:33,340 Well, it's commercially lucrative 343 00:12:33,340 --> 00:12:33,540 and sports-data companies Well, it's commercially lucrative 344 00:12:33,540 --> 00:12:35,140 and sports-data companies 345 00:12:35,140 --> 00:12:37,140 are in demand from bookmakers 346 00:12:37,140 --> 00:12:38,580 to provide that data. 347 00:12:38,580 --> 00:12:41,220 Globally there's a thirst for it. 348 00:12:41,220 --> 00:12:41,460 Globally there's a thirst for it. People want data to inform their betting. 349 00:12:41,460 --> 00:12:44,380 People want data to inform their betting. 350 00:12:46,020 --> 00:12:49,140 (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) 351 00:12:49,140 --> 00:12:51,060 Sportradar told Four Corners 352 00:12:51,060 --> 00:12:54,180 it doesn't supply these live feeds to bookmakers. 353 00:12:54,180 --> 00:12:54,420 But authorities tell us it doesn't supply these live feeds to bookmakers. 354 00:12:54,420 --> 00:12:55,700 But authorities tell us 355 00:12:55,700 --> 00:12:55,940 But authorities tell us by offshore gambling companies. 356 00:12:55,940 --> 00:12:59,260 they can still be used by offshore gambling companies. 357 00:12:59,260 --> 00:12:59,500 Cricket Australia says by offshore gambling companies. 358 00:12:59,500 --> 00:13:00,860 Cricket Australia says 359 00:13:00,860 --> 00:13:05,380 it's up to clubs to make sure those companies can't access their footage. 360 00:13:05,380 --> 00:13:05,660 it's up to clubs to make sure those companies can't access their footage. Well, there's a lot of resources.... 361 00:13:05,660 --> 00:13:07,020 Well, there's a lot of resources.... 362 00:13:07,020 --> 00:13:11,020 Jason Whybrow leads the match-fixing unit at Sport Integrity Australia. 363 00:13:11,020 --> 00:13:13,620 We can't control the entire world or the internet, 364 00:13:13,620 --> 00:13:13,860 We can't control but we can work harder. 365 00:13:13,860 --> 00:13:15,500 but we can work harder. 366 00:13:15,500 --> 00:13:17,900 This new government agency was set up 367 00:13:17,900 --> 00:13:19,740 to protect Australian sport 368 00:13:19,740 --> 00:13:23,180 from threats linked to doping, match fixing and gambling. 369 00:13:23,180 --> 00:13:26,820 We certainly can protect the participants and protect our sports. 370 00:13:26,820 --> 00:13:29,180 Just generally about the sports-data companies, 371 00:13:29,180 --> 00:13:31,020 how much do you think they've contributed 372 00:13:31,020 --> 00:13:36,660 to this massive increase in the availability of sport to bet on? 373 00:13:36,660 --> 00:13:36,900 to this massive increase in The environment's grown hugely 374 00:13:36,900 --> 00:13:39,900 The environment's grown hugely 375 00:13:39,900 --> 00:13:41,580 in the last decade. 376 00:13:41,580 --> 00:13:41,820 Part of that in the last decade. 377 00:13:41,820 --> 00:13:44,500 Part of that is because, when people bet, 378 00:13:44,500 --> 00:13:47,260 they are interested in watching the outcome of their bet. 379 00:13:47,260 --> 00:13:47,500 they are interested in watching So, they are feeding a need, 380 00:13:47,500 --> 00:13:49,540 So, they are feeding a need, 381 00:13:49,540 --> 00:13:54,060 they're using the rapid advances of technology to do that. 382 00:13:54,980 --> 00:13:58,900 (INDISTINCT YELLING) 383 00:13:58,900 --> 00:14:01,860 Betting technology may be rapidly advancing, 384 00:14:01,860 --> 00:14:06,100 but the standard of competition here is truly amateur. 385 00:14:06,100 --> 00:14:09,300 UMPIRE: The game's over, fellas, 'cause they can't supply a new ball. 386 00:14:09,300 --> 00:14:09,540 UMPIRE: The game's over, fellas, After notching up a big score, 387 00:14:09,540 --> 00:14:11,180 After notching up a big score, 388 00:14:11,180 --> 00:14:13,180 Maribyrnong Park has to forfeit 389 00:14:13,180 --> 00:14:16,740 because they didn't bring a new ball for the second innings. 390 00:14:17,700 --> 00:14:19,940 SIMON FITZGERALD: Well, the game's come to a very abrupt end. 391 00:14:19,940 --> 00:14:21,380 We batted our 20 overs 392 00:14:21,380 --> 00:14:21,580 and made a very decent score. We batted our 20 overs 393 00:14:21,580 --> 00:14:23,540 and made a very decent score. 394 00:14:23,540 --> 00:14:25,540 And, lo and behold, our... 395 00:14:25,540 --> 00:14:27,020 ..we've turned up without a new ball, 396 00:14:27,020 --> 00:14:30,660 which is part of an expected regulation on the association. 397 00:14:30,660 --> 00:14:30,900 which is part of an expected regulation on the association. How did someone forget a ball? 398 00:14:30,900 --> 00:14:32,740 How did someone forget a ball? 399 00:14:32,740 --> 00:14:34,020 Yeah, that's a very good question 400 00:14:34,020 --> 00:14:35,500 I'm yet to get to the bottom of, Pat. 401 00:14:35,500 --> 00:14:38,540 Rest assured that that'll be a question asked very shortly. 402 00:14:38,540 --> 00:14:38,780 Rest assured that that'll be Very shortly. 403 00:14:38,780 --> 00:14:40,180 Very shortly. 404 00:14:44,460 --> 00:14:48,740 For Sportradar, live-streaming is just the beginning. 405 00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:52,540 Executives told a group of investors in March 406 00:14:52,540 --> 00:14:56,580 it's using AI technology to supercharge profits. 407 00:15:04,540 --> 00:15:08,060 Sportradar was valued at almost US$8 billion 408 00:15:08,060 --> 00:15:11,420 when it listed on the Nasdaq two years ago. 409 00:15:11,420 --> 00:15:14,060 It has a gambling-market monitoring arm 410 00:15:14,060 --> 00:15:17,420 that detects suspicious betting and uncovers match fixing. 411 00:15:17,420 --> 00:15:22,060 But its core business is selling data for gambling. 412 00:15:22,060 --> 00:15:22,340 We created live betting. So, we created this product. But its core business is selling data for gambling. 413 00:15:22,340 --> 00:15:25,100 We created live betting. So, we created this product. 414 00:15:25,100 --> 00:15:25,380 We created live betting. So, we created this product. We are the best in the world for this 415 00:15:25,380 --> 00:15:26,340 We are the best in the world for this 416 00:15:26,340 --> 00:15:28,140 and we are the biggest in the world for this. 417 00:15:28,140 --> 00:15:28,380 and we are the biggest in the world It's backed by billionaire investors, 418 00:15:28,380 --> 00:15:30,740 It's backed by billionaire investors, 419 00:15:30,740 --> 00:15:33,900 has deals with some of the biggest US sporting codes, 420 00:15:33,900 --> 00:15:37,260 and basketball icon Michael Jordan has a stake in the company. 421 00:15:37,260 --> 00:15:37,500 and basketball icon Michael Jordan You did great! Yay! 422 00:15:37,500 --> 00:15:39,260 You did great! Yay! 423 00:15:41,540 --> 00:15:43,780 It's clear the company sees a future 424 00:15:43,780 --> 00:15:44,020 where every second of play It's clear the company sees a future 425 00:15:44,020 --> 00:15:48,020 where every second of play is an opportunity to bet. 426 00:16:13,780 --> 00:16:16,300 CATHERINE ORDWAY: This was taking things to a new level. 427 00:16:16,300 --> 00:16:18,820 Sport-integrity specialist Catherine Ordway 428 00:16:18,820 --> 00:16:21,380 is surprised by these expansion plans 429 00:16:21,380 --> 00:16:24,660 at a time when public attitudes towards sports gambling 430 00:16:24,660 --> 00:16:24,900 at a time when public attitudes appear to be shifting. 431 00:16:24,900 --> 00:16:26,260 appear to be shifting. 432 00:16:26,260 --> 00:16:28,460 CATHERINE ORDWAY: I definitely don't need micro betting, 433 00:16:28,460 --> 00:16:28,700 CATHERINE ORDWAY: I definitely and I don't know who does. 434 00:16:28,700 --> 00:16:29,940 and I don't know who does. 435 00:16:29,940 --> 00:16:30,140 People who enjoy betting on sport and I don't know who does. 436 00:16:30,140 --> 00:16:32,940 People who enjoy betting on sport 437 00:16:32,940 --> 00:16:36,140 would say this is a fun new product, perhaps. 438 00:16:36,140 --> 00:16:36,420 would say this is a fun new product, perhaps. And if we have the protections around... 439 00:16:36,420 --> 00:16:38,780 And if we have the protections around... 440 00:16:38,780 --> 00:16:40,980 ..the education and awareness programs 441 00:16:40,980 --> 00:16:42,660 so people KNOW that this is the environment 442 00:16:42,660 --> 00:16:44,740 and this is what people are making money off of 443 00:16:44,740 --> 00:16:44,980 and this is what for those players, 444 00:16:44,980 --> 00:16:46,220 for those players, 445 00:16:46,220 --> 00:16:48,620 then maybe there's a win-win. 446 00:16:48,620 --> 00:16:51,820 But I just would've thought expanding gambling at all 447 00:16:51,820 --> 00:16:52,060 But I just would've thought is completely the wrong direction. 448 00:16:52,060 --> 00:16:53,780 is completely the wrong direction. 449 00:16:55,340 --> 00:17:00,900 Sportradar says it's trusted by more than 200 sporting organisations. 450 00:17:00,900 --> 00:17:06,020 It says collecting their data helps detect suspicious betting patterns. 451 00:17:07,180 --> 00:17:11,020 Sportradar's commercial dealings with another sporting body 452 00:17:11,020 --> 00:17:14,980 exposed the dangers of allowing gambling to flourish. 453 00:17:14,980 --> 00:17:18,060 NEWSREADER: Championship matches have been investigated 454 00:17:18,060 --> 00:17:18,300 NEWSREADER: Championship matches over suspicions of match fixing. 455 00:17:18,300 --> 00:17:20,540 over suspicions of match fixing. 456 00:17:20,540 --> 00:17:22,020 NEWSREADER: A core group of players, half of whom 457 00:17:22,020 --> 00:17:25,060 are actually about to begin playing at the Australian Open... 458 00:17:25,060 --> 00:17:27,980 PRESS CONFERENCE: All of us in tennis are absolutely committed 459 00:17:27,980 --> 00:17:34,140 to stamp out any form of corrupt conduct in our sport. 460 00:17:39,540 --> 00:17:41,060 (GRUNTS) 461 00:17:41,060 --> 00:17:41,860 My bad. 462 00:17:41,860 --> 00:17:43,900 Did one go through? 463 00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:46,460 I've been playing professional tennis for probably 10 years now. 464 00:17:46,460 --> 00:17:46,700 I've been playing professional My highest ranking 465 00:17:46,700 --> 00:17:47,940 My highest ranking 466 00:17:47,940 --> 00:17:48,180 is probably the ranking My highest ranking 467 00:17:48,180 --> 00:17:50,580 is probably the ranking I'm at as of this point today, 468 00:17:50,580 --> 00:17:50,860 which is about 218 in the world, I think, is probably the ranking I'm at as of this point today, 469 00:17:50,860 --> 00:17:53,860 which is about 218 in the world, I think, 470 00:17:53,860 --> 00:17:54,100 which is about 218 in the world, I think, give or take. 471 00:17:54,100 --> 00:17:55,100 give or take. 472 00:17:55,100 --> 00:17:56,620 Not that I'm that obsessed with the number. 473 00:17:57,900 --> 00:17:59,660 Australian Brandon Walkin 474 00:17:59,660 --> 00:18:03,460 is taking a break in Tel Aviv between tournaments. 475 00:18:04,420 --> 00:18:06,380 He's seen first-hand 476 00:18:06,380 --> 00:18:10,580 how low-paid professionals can be tempted to break the rules. 477 00:18:11,540 --> 00:18:14,500 Unless you're at the pinnacle of the sport, 478 00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:15,900 like, the top 100 in the world, 479 00:18:15,900 --> 00:18:19,260 you're not making money where it's like life-changing money. 480 00:18:19,260 --> 00:18:22,460 I think I just need to get better, maybe I'll make more money. 481 00:18:22,460 --> 00:18:25,380 But I think overall the sport does not pay 482 00:18:25,380 --> 00:18:26,700 anywhere near as well as it should, 483 00:18:26,700 --> 00:18:30,780 and, yeah, it makes it difficult for a lot of people. 484 00:18:32,100 --> 00:18:34,100 His reputation took a hit 485 00:18:34,100 --> 00:18:34,340 when he was caught up His reputation took a hit 486 00:18:34,340 --> 00:18:36,300 when he was caught up in a match-fixing scandal 487 00:18:36,300 --> 00:18:36,540 when he was caught up early in his career. 488 00:18:36,540 --> 00:18:38,100 early in his career. 489 00:18:38,100 --> 00:18:41,300 I was 18. Like, I was naive and I didn't know the rules. 490 00:18:42,260 --> 00:18:46,300 In 2013 Brandon Walkin was asked to pass on a message 491 00:18:46,300 --> 00:18:50,140 to help fix a match at a minor tournament in Queensland. 492 00:18:50,140 --> 00:18:50,380 to help fix a match By the rules, 493 00:18:50,380 --> 00:18:51,620 By the rules, 494 00:18:51,620 --> 00:18:54,020 I'm meant to go straight to Tennis Integrity Unit 495 00:18:54,020 --> 00:18:56,740 instead of what I did do, which was pass the message along. 496 00:18:56,740 --> 00:18:59,620 In the text message I said, "I don't want anything to do with this," 497 00:18:59,620 --> 00:18:59,860 In the text message I said, "I don't like, "It's your career. 498 00:18:59,860 --> 00:19:00,860 like, "It's your career. 499 00:19:00,860 --> 00:19:02,860 "If this is the route you want to go down, so be it." 500 00:19:05,540 --> 00:19:09,020 The governing body handed him a six-month ban. 501 00:19:09,020 --> 00:19:12,420 It was suspended, which meant he could continue to play. 502 00:19:12,420 --> 00:19:14,260 I felt like that's hung over my head. 503 00:19:14,260 --> 00:19:16,460 I still feel like I won't get a wild card, 504 00:19:16,460 --> 00:19:18,220 I won't get an opportunity because of my involvement. 505 00:19:18,220 --> 00:19:20,900 It's on me to be more responsible and know the rules, of course. 506 00:19:20,900 --> 00:19:22,980 But, like, there's always going to be people 507 00:19:22,980 --> 00:19:26,580 who are looking to take advantage of people who don't know better 508 00:19:26,580 --> 00:19:29,060 or people who are young or people who aren't familiar with the rules 509 00:19:29,060 --> 00:19:31,820 or people who they feel they have influence over. 510 00:19:32,780 --> 00:19:37,580 When another match-fixing scandal implicating multiple players 511 00:19:37,580 --> 00:19:40,300 erupted on the eve of the 2016 Australian Open, 512 00:19:40,300 --> 00:19:40,540 erupted on the eve the governing bodies of tennis 513 00:19:40,540 --> 00:19:41,820 the governing bodies of tennis 514 00:19:41,820 --> 00:19:44,300 launched an independent investigation. 515 00:19:44,300 --> 00:19:47,060 ADAM LEWIS: What we found was that 516 00:19:47,060 --> 00:19:47,340 tennis did indeed face a serious integrity problem. ADAM LEWIS: What we found was that 517 00:19:47,340 --> 00:19:51,180 tennis did indeed face a serious integrity problem. 518 00:19:51,180 --> 00:19:51,460 tennis did indeed face a serious integrity problem. The game itself lends itself to manipulation for betting purposes. 519 00:19:51,460 --> 00:19:55,820 The game itself lends itself to manipulation for betting purposes. 520 00:19:56,580 --> 00:19:58,580 Detection is difficult 521 00:19:58,580 --> 00:19:58,820 not least because Detection is difficult 522 00:19:58,820 --> 00:20:01,060 not least because in many professional matches 523 00:20:01,060 --> 00:20:04,580 there are no spectators and inadequate facilities. 524 00:20:05,540 --> 00:20:08,180 British barrister Adam Lewis led the review 525 00:20:08,180 --> 00:20:12,500 and found match fixing was more likely among lower-ranked players. 526 00:20:12,500 --> 00:20:16,220 You have very many young professional players 527 00:20:16,220 --> 00:20:18,820 or old professional players on the way out 528 00:20:18,820 --> 00:20:21,620 who cannot earn a living at that lowest level. 529 00:20:21,620 --> 00:20:24,780 The temptation is, "I want to make a little bit more money." 530 00:20:24,780 --> 00:20:25,020 The temptation is, "I want to make And then you begin to fix matches. 531 00:20:25,020 --> 00:20:27,380 And then you begin to fix matches. 532 00:20:27,380 --> 00:20:28,860 The panel also proposes... 533 00:20:28,860 --> 00:20:31,740 So, it was that easiness 534 00:20:31,740 --> 00:20:31,980 of the way in which people could So, it was that easiness 535 00:20:31,980 --> 00:20:35,180 of the way in which people could slip into low-level match fixing 536 00:20:35,180 --> 00:20:38,260 and how that could then develop into something worse 537 00:20:38,260 --> 00:20:38,500 and how that could then that we found most shocking. 538 00:20:38,500 --> 00:20:39,900 that we found most shocking. 539 00:20:42,260 --> 00:20:44,020 Adam Lewis and his team 540 00:20:44,020 --> 00:20:46,580 looked at more than a thousand suspect matches, 541 00:20:46,580 --> 00:20:46,820 looked at more than a thousand 85% of them 542 00:20:46,820 --> 00:20:48,260 85% of them 543 00:20:48,260 --> 00:20:52,460 at tournaments with a fraction of the prize money of the grand slams. 544 00:20:53,620 --> 00:20:55,620 BRANDON WALKIN: A lot of the time the courts aren't flat 545 00:20:55,620 --> 00:20:55,860 or the courts are quite dangerous BRANDON WALKIN: A lot of the time the courts aren't flat 546 00:20:55,860 --> 00:20:57,300 or the courts are quite dangerous 547 00:20:57,300 --> 00:20:58,980 or the linesmen 548 00:20:58,980 --> 00:21:01,180 don't really care to be there, 549 00:21:01,180 --> 00:21:01,420 don't really care to be there, you know, the tennis balls you get are balls that I give my dog. 550 00:21:01,420 --> 00:21:04,420 you know, the tennis balls you get are balls that I give my dog. 551 00:21:06,980 --> 00:21:10,180 Adam Lewis linked the growing threat of match-fixing 552 00:21:10,180 --> 00:21:11,620 to a lucrative deal 553 00:21:11,620 --> 00:21:16,140 the tennis federation signed with data company Sportradar. 554 00:21:17,020 --> 00:21:18,500 Under the agreement 555 00:21:18,500 --> 00:21:18,740 live match data, even from Under the agreement 556 00:21:18,740 --> 00:21:21,820 live match data, even from the lowest-level tournaments, 557 00:21:21,820 --> 00:21:22,060 live match data, even from is fed directly from tennis umpires. 558 00:21:22,060 --> 00:21:25,420 is fed directly from tennis umpires. 559 00:21:25,420 --> 00:21:27,500 As they record the score of the match, 560 00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:27,740 As they record that data is then sold live, 561 00:21:27,740 --> 00:21:29,980 that data is then sold live, 562 00:21:29,980 --> 00:21:34,860 being sent automatically by computer straight to a betting company. 563 00:21:34,860 --> 00:21:38,660 The problem was with the fact that the data sale at that level 564 00:21:38,660 --> 00:21:42,220 was creating betting markets that would not otherwise have existed. 565 00:21:44,700 --> 00:21:46,220 Gamblers could now bet 566 00:21:46,220 --> 00:21:49,860 on tens of thousands of low-level tennis matches. 567 00:21:50,820 --> 00:21:53,700 BRANDON WALKIN: I didn't think that anyone would have any interest 568 00:21:53,700 --> 00:21:55,660 in any level of tennis outside of Grand Slams. 569 00:21:55,660 --> 00:21:59,300 And then when I realised, "Oh, there's odds on matches"... 570 00:21:59,300 --> 00:22:02,660 You know, I'm playing a match in Ipswich, and there's odds on this. 571 00:22:02,660 --> 00:22:05,980 I was like, "How could betting people even figure that out? 572 00:22:07,660 --> 00:22:10,860 Adam Lewis said the solution was simple - 573 00:22:10,860 --> 00:22:11,100 Adam Lewis said stop Sportradar and its rivals 574 00:22:11,100 --> 00:22:13,100 stop Sportradar and its rivals 575 00:22:13,100 --> 00:22:17,780 collecting live data on low-level tennis and selling it to bookmakers. 576 00:22:17,780 --> 00:22:22,780 Not only are the players at the very lowest level 577 00:22:22,780 --> 00:22:25,540 really underpaid and subject to temptation 578 00:22:25,540 --> 00:22:27,660 but also the officials at these lower levels 579 00:22:27,660 --> 00:22:30,860 are also subject to temptation in the same way. 580 00:22:32,260 --> 00:22:34,020 The tennis federation promised 581 00:22:34,020 --> 00:22:37,660 to phase out live data collection at the lowest-level tournaments, 582 00:22:37,660 --> 00:22:37,900 to phase out live data collection but that still hasn't happened. 583 00:22:37,900 --> 00:22:39,700 but that still hasn't happened. 584 00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:40,700 Out! 585 00:22:40,700 --> 00:22:40,940 That's obviously Out! 586 00:22:40,940 --> 00:22:42,660 That's obviously rather disappointing. 587 00:22:42,660 --> 00:22:42,900 That's obviously I think one can also say 588 00:22:42,900 --> 00:22:45,660 I think one can also say 589 00:22:45,660 --> 00:22:47,660 in relation to any other sport 590 00:22:47,660 --> 00:22:50,660 selling data at that lowest level, 591 00:22:50,660 --> 00:22:50,900 they'll create selling data at that lowest level, 592 00:22:50,900 --> 00:22:52,420 they'll create their own perfect storm, 593 00:22:52,420 --> 00:22:56,420 the risk is that will lead to further match fixing 594 00:22:56,420 --> 00:23:00,060 in the same way as seems to occur at the lowest levels in tennis. 595 00:23:01,660 --> 00:23:04,700 The federation admits there's still work to do 596 00:23:04,700 --> 00:23:09,300 and says it's committed to upholding the integrity of the sport. 597 00:23:09,300 --> 00:23:12,780 Since Adam Lewis released his findings five years ago 598 00:23:12,780 --> 00:23:13,020 Since Adam Lewis 21 players and seven umpires 599 00:23:13,020 --> 00:23:15,380 21 players and seven umpires 600 00:23:15,380 --> 00:23:15,620 have been banned or suspended 21 players and seven umpires 601 00:23:15,620 --> 00:23:19,700 have been banned or suspended for match-fixing offences. 602 00:23:19,700 --> 00:23:21,380 Tennis said it was going to try to fix this problem, 603 00:23:21,380 --> 00:23:21,620 Tennis said it was going but it hasn't actually done that. 604 00:23:21,620 --> 00:23:22,740 but it hasn't actually done that. 605 00:23:22,740 --> 00:23:24,420 I mean, why do you think it hasn't? 606 00:23:24,420 --> 00:23:26,420 Well, it would appear to be money. 607 00:23:26,420 --> 00:23:26,660 You follow the money and then you look at what they say Well, it would appear to be money. 608 00:23:26,660 --> 00:23:29,780 You follow the money and then you look at what they say 609 00:23:29,780 --> 00:23:30,020 You follow the money and then you look at what they do. 610 00:23:30,020 --> 00:23:31,540 and then you look at what they do. 611 00:23:31,540 --> 00:23:31,740 and then you look at what they do. And the sports themselves 612 00:23:31,740 --> 00:23:33,260 And the sports themselves 613 00:23:33,260 --> 00:23:33,500 are captured by the gambling money, And the sports themselves 614 00:23:33,500 --> 00:23:36,860 are captured by the gambling money, unfortunately. 615 00:23:36,860 --> 00:23:37,100 are captured by the gambling money, (CHEERING) 616 00:23:37,100 --> 00:23:40,180 (CHEERING) 617 00:23:40,180 --> 00:23:43,020 From local games to the major leagues, 618 00:23:43,020 --> 00:23:47,620 gambling is more influential than ever in Australian sport. 619 00:23:47,620 --> 00:23:50,820 It's changing how many of us watch these games. 620 00:23:50,820 --> 00:23:53,340 The big sporting codes know the risks 621 00:23:53,340 --> 00:23:56,580 but can't resist taking their cut. 622 00:23:56,580 --> 00:23:59,860 How intertwined is sport and gambling now? 623 00:23:59,860 --> 00:24:01,380 HUNTER FUJAK: Incredibly intertwined. 624 00:24:01,380 --> 00:24:01,660 It's sponsorship of teams, sponsorship of stadiums, HUNTER FUJAK: Incredibly intertwined. 625 00:24:01,660 --> 00:24:04,100 It's sponsorship of teams, sponsorship of stadiums, 626 00:24:04,100 --> 00:24:04,340 It's sponsorship of teams, sponsorship of stadiums, integration into broadcasts. 627 00:24:04,340 --> 00:24:06,100 integration into broadcasts. 628 00:24:06,100 --> 00:24:07,700 Let's quickly check in with Sportsbet. 629 00:24:07,700 --> 00:24:09,940 CATHERINE ORDWAY: It's become so ingrained 630 00:24:09,940 --> 00:24:13,940 and sport organisations have become so reliant on the money 631 00:24:13,940 --> 00:24:17,220 they're entirely beholden to gambling companies. 632 00:24:18,900 --> 00:24:21,140 All Australia's major sporting bodies 633 00:24:21,140 --> 00:24:23,300 have signed deals with online bookmakers. 634 00:24:23,300 --> 00:24:23,540 have signed deals The details aren't made public 635 00:24:23,540 --> 00:24:25,220 The details aren't made public 636 00:24:25,220 --> 00:24:27,740 and the sports don't say how much they're worth. 637 00:24:27,740 --> 00:24:29,300 We've obtained copies of the deals 638 00:24:29,300 --> 00:24:32,740 signed by the AFL, the NRL and Football Australia, 639 00:24:32,740 --> 00:24:35,020 and they reveal the percentage the sports earn 640 00:24:35,020 --> 00:24:35,260 and they reveal the percentage on every bet made on their events. 641 00:24:35,260 --> 00:24:37,620 on every bet made on their events. 642 00:24:37,620 --> 00:24:37,860 And, for some sports, on every bet made on their events. 643 00:24:37,860 --> 00:24:40,340 And, for some sports, the riskier the bet 644 00:24:40,340 --> 00:24:40,580 And, for some sports, the bigger the cut. 645 00:24:40,580 --> 00:24:42,020 the bigger the cut. 646 00:24:44,740 --> 00:24:48,500 These documents haven't been made public before. 647 00:24:48,500 --> 00:24:50,780 They show how tied the codes are 648 00:24:50,780 --> 00:24:53,780 to the fortunes of the gambling industry. 649 00:24:53,780 --> 00:24:57,820 The NRL earnt $50 million last year from this agreement. 650 00:24:57,820 --> 00:25:03,780 It takes a 1.2% commission from every bet in Australia on its games, 651 00:25:03,780 --> 00:25:05,380 more for riskier bets 652 00:25:05,380 --> 00:25:09,620 and gambling on big games like the State of Origin and finals. 653 00:25:09,620 --> 00:25:09,860 and gambling on big games On some bets 654 00:25:09,860 --> 00:25:10,980 On some bets 655 00:25:10,980 --> 00:25:16,460 the NRL can take 17.5% of a bookmaker's profit. 656 00:25:16,460 --> 00:25:18,220 What do you make of this agreement? 657 00:25:18,220 --> 00:25:20,420 HUNTER FUJAK: Given the popularity of the National Rugby League, 658 00:25:20,420 --> 00:25:23,780 it would have to convert to an incredible source of revenue 659 00:25:23,780 --> 00:25:24,020 it would have to convert for the code. 660 00:25:24,020 --> 00:25:25,300 for the code. 661 00:25:26,420 --> 00:25:30,420 The AFL pocketed between $30 million and $40 million, 662 00:25:30,420 --> 00:25:35,460 but won't tell us exactly what its deal with the bookmakers is worth. 663 00:25:35,460 --> 00:25:35,700 but won't tell us exactly what its These hugely lucrative agreements 664 00:25:35,700 --> 00:25:37,940 These hugely lucrative agreements 665 00:25:37,940 --> 00:25:38,180 give the codes control over the These hugely lucrative agreements 666 00:25:38,180 --> 00:25:41,980 give the codes control over the betting on their games in Australia 667 00:25:41,980 --> 00:25:44,980 and are meant to fund their integrity units. 668 00:25:44,980 --> 00:25:47,500 Sports management researcher Hunter Fujak 669 00:25:47,500 --> 00:25:50,500 says the nation's two biggest sporting codes 670 00:25:50,500 --> 00:25:52,020 don't want the public to know 671 00:25:52,020 --> 00:25:55,060 how reliant they've become on these deals. 672 00:25:55,060 --> 00:25:55,300 how reliant There's certainly a PR element 673 00:25:55,300 --> 00:25:57,220 There's certainly a PR element 674 00:25:57,220 --> 00:25:59,740 to try to manage the publicity 675 00:25:59,740 --> 00:25:59,980 around their integration to try to manage the publicity 676 00:25:59,980 --> 00:26:02,220 around their integration with gambling. 677 00:26:02,220 --> 00:26:04,740 And, so, when we look at the annual reports of our major codes, 678 00:26:04,740 --> 00:26:07,260 they really do a good job trying to blur the boundaries 679 00:26:07,260 --> 00:26:07,500 they really do a good job to hide, I guess, the exact elements 680 00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:09,500 to hide, I guess, the exact elements 681 00:26:09,500 --> 00:26:09,740 of how involved they are to hide, I guess, the exact elements 682 00:26:09,740 --> 00:26:12,500 of how involved they are or how integrated gambling is. 683 00:26:12,500 --> 00:26:12,740 of how involved they are The more punters bet on games 684 00:26:12,740 --> 00:26:15,260 The more punters bet on games 685 00:26:15,260 --> 00:26:17,940 the more money the NRL makes, right? 686 00:26:17,940 --> 00:26:20,420 If we talk about overall betting, absolutely. 687 00:26:20,420 --> 00:26:23,020 So, they've got an even greater interest in promoting gambling, 688 00:26:23,020 --> 00:26:24,860 to have gambling advertising in the sport? 689 00:26:24,860 --> 00:26:25,100 to have gambling Yes, the sport gambling advertising 690 00:26:25,100 --> 00:26:27,340 Yes, the sport gambling advertising 691 00:26:27,340 --> 00:26:30,500 is very much for attracting new gamblers. 692 00:26:30,500 --> 00:26:31,780 Our sport leagues stand to benefit 693 00:26:31,780 --> 00:26:35,060 the more there are new gamblers encouraged to gamble 694 00:26:35,060 --> 00:26:35,300 the more there are new gamblers and existing punters gambling more. 695 00:26:35,300 --> 00:26:37,540 and existing punters gambling more. 696 00:26:37,540 --> 00:26:38,420 (CHEERING) 697 00:26:38,420 --> 00:26:38,660 The NRL says its agreement limits the (CHEERING) 698 00:26:38,660 --> 00:26:42,980 The NRL says its agreement limits the types of bets available to punters 699 00:26:42,980 --> 00:26:47,580 and is designed to safeguard the integrity of the sport. 700 00:26:47,580 --> 00:26:50,860 CATHERINE ORDWAY: People can't watch a match without having a bet on. 701 00:26:50,860 --> 00:26:53,820 It's rife and it's become so normalised 702 00:26:53,820 --> 00:26:55,060 that the rest of the world is wondering 703 00:26:55,060 --> 00:26:55,300 that the rest of the world what on earth Australia is doing. 704 00:26:55,300 --> 00:26:56,860 what on earth Australia is doing. 705 00:26:56,860 --> 00:26:59,580 You've got advertising soaked all the way through it. 706 00:26:59,580 --> 00:27:01,700 PRESENTER: Let's get a market update from Sportsbet. 707 00:27:01,700 --> 00:27:03,060 (CHEERING) 708 00:27:03,060 --> 00:27:03,300 It's no wonder that they are sponsoring sports (CHEERING) 709 00:27:03,300 --> 00:27:05,580 It's no wonder that they are sponsoring sports 710 00:27:05,580 --> 00:27:08,500 because it gives you primetime access 711 00:27:08,500 --> 00:27:08,740 because it gives you into loungerooms across the country. 712 00:27:08,740 --> 00:27:11,100 into loungerooms across the country. 713 00:27:12,460 --> 00:27:17,740 Just the sheer number of betting ads that young people are seeing. 714 00:27:17,740 --> 00:27:19,340 They turn on the TVs, they're seeing gambling. 715 00:27:19,340 --> 00:27:21,900 They scroll their Twitter or Facebook feed, 716 00:27:21,900 --> 00:27:23,620 they're seeing gambling. 717 00:27:23,620 --> 00:27:25,900 ANNOUNCER: Please make sure you have your tickets ready. 718 00:27:25,900 --> 00:27:29,900 The NRL and AFL only allow betting on their top teams. 719 00:27:29,900 --> 00:27:32,420 But we've discovered soccer's governing body 720 00:27:32,420 --> 00:27:34,100 allows gambling on everything 721 00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:36,780 from the A-League down to amateur matches... 722 00:27:36,780 --> 00:27:37,020 from the A-League (WHISTLE BLOWS) 723 00:27:37,020 --> 00:27:37,780 (WHISTLE BLOWS) 724 00:27:37,780 --> 00:27:39,700 (CHEERING) 725 00:27:39,700 --> 00:27:40,980 ..and its secret agreement 726 00:27:40,980 --> 00:27:45,820 shows it gets a cut from every bet made in Australia on those games. 727 00:27:46,780 --> 00:27:49,020 Football Australia wouldn't do an interview 728 00:27:49,020 --> 00:27:52,380 or tell us what the deal is worth. 729 00:27:52,380 --> 00:27:53,780 Do you think Football Australia 730 00:27:53,780 --> 00:27:56,860 should be getting a cut of bets on amateur games, 731 00:27:56,860 --> 00:28:00,140 including games where underage players are on the pitch? 732 00:28:00,140 --> 00:28:03,500 Certainly if they're going to derive income 733 00:28:03,500 --> 00:28:05,740 from such low levels of the sport, 734 00:28:05,740 --> 00:28:07,220 then certainly one would expect 735 00:28:07,220 --> 00:28:10,060 that, from an integrity perspective, that money is reinvested 736 00:28:10,060 --> 00:28:12,620 to make sure that there's really good measures in place 737 00:28:12,620 --> 00:28:13,860 and resourcing in place 738 00:28:13,860 --> 00:28:16,420 to ensure that those matches 739 00:28:16,420 --> 00:28:19,660 aren't having corruption or match-integrity issues. 740 00:28:21,900 --> 00:28:26,580 You have to decide in this moment as a striker. OK? 741 00:28:26,580 --> 00:28:29,260 On training night in South Springvale, 742 00:28:29,260 --> 00:28:31,380 we tell Jim Simos what we've discovered 743 00:28:31,380 --> 00:28:33,940 about Football Australia's relationships 744 00:28:33,940 --> 00:28:36,300 with gambling companies. 745 00:28:36,300 --> 00:28:38,420 Has Football Australia even told you 746 00:28:38,420 --> 00:28:40,540 that they allow betting at this level of soccer? 747 00:28:40,540 --> 00:28:40,780 that they allow betting JIM SIMOS: No. No. 748 00:28:40,780 --> 00:28:41,700 JIM SIMOS: No. No. 749 00:28:41,700 --> 00:28:41,940 The first thing I'd heard of it JIM SIMOS: No. No. 750 00:28:41,940 --> 00:28:44,300 The first thing I'd heard of it was on Round One this year, 751 00:28:44,300 --> 00:28:47,020 that they were gambling on our games. 752 00:28:47,020 --> 00:28:47,260 that they were gambling I assumed obviously the top leagues. 753 00:28:47,260 --> 00:28:49,140 I assumed obviously the top leagues. 754 00:28:49,140 --> 00:28:50,780 I was totally unaware that it was down 755 00:28:50,780 --> 00:28:51,020 to our levels and below. I was totally unaware that it was down 756 00:28:51,020 --> 00:28:52,940 to our levels and below. 757 00:28:52,940 --> 00:28:56,500 So, Football Australia hasn't come to us as a collective and said, 758 00:28:56,500 --> 00:28:58,100 "Hey, be careful of this, be careful of that." 759 00:28:58,100 --> 00:28:58,340 "Hey, be careful of this, be careful of that." Just hasn't occurred at all. 760 00:28:58,340 --> 00:28:59,860 Just hasn't occurred at all. 761 00:28:59,860 --> 00:29:01,260 What would you say if I told you 762 00:29:01,260 --> 00:29:05,780 that Football Australia actually gets a cut of all bets on your games? 763 00:29:05,780 --> 00:29:08,300 It'd be disappointing that they're doing that. 764 00:29:08,300 --> 00:29:10,940 Football Australia want these relationships, 765 00:29:10,940 --> 00:29:12,220 that's fine, it is what it is. 766 00:29:12,220 --> 00:29:13,820 Leave it to the professional leagues, 767 00:29:13,820 --> 00:29:15,500 where they've got the set-up, they can monitor it, 768 00:29:15,500 --> 00:29:17,980 they need to do what they need to do. 769 00:29:17,980 --> 00:29:20,540 From our perspective, I don't think it's a...there's no place for it. 770 00:29:20,540 --> 00:29:22,260 They're treating you like a commodity. 771 00:29:22,260 --> 00:29:22,500 They're treating you Absolutely. 772 00:29:22,500 --> 00:29:23,420 Absolutely. 773 00:29:23,420 --> 00:29:24,980 And we have no part of that. 774 00:29:24,980 --> 00:29:25,220 We have no choice And we have no part of that. 775 00:29:25,220 --> 00:29:28,140 We have no choice of backing out of that. 776 00:29:28,140 --> 00:29:28,380 We have no choice Which would be great just to... 777 00:29:28,380 --> 00:29:31,140 Which would be great just to... 778 00:29:31,140 --> 00:29:33,860 I'd love to just tick us off, "Don't bet on our games," 779 00:29:33,860 --> 00:29:34,100 I'd love to just tick us off, put a line through our games. 780 00:29:34,100 --> 00:29:37,260 put a line through our games. 781 00:29:37,260 --> 00:29:39,100 I don't need that pressure. 782 00:29:39,100 --> 00:29:41,860 But can it get worse? Absolutely. There's a scope for it to get worse, 783 00:29:41,860 --> 00:29:43,700 and we don't want to deal with that. 784 00:29:43,700 --> 00:29:43,940 and we don't want Gents, how are we? 785 00:29:43,940 --> 00:29:46,100 Gents, how are we? 786 00:29:46,100 --> 00:29:47,500 We all good? 787 00:29:47,500 --> 00:29:52,140 Jim Simos has no idea who's betting on his club... 788 00:29:52,140 --> 00:29:55,100 So, we'll do that first. So, off we go. 789 00:29:55,100 --> 00:29:59,660 ..or how to deal with the sudden global interest in their games. 790 00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:03,660 JIM SIMOS: There's been no training on it. There's been nothing at all. 791 00:30:03,660 --> 00:30:03,900 JIM SIMOS: There's been no training So, it's left to the club. 792 00:30:03,900 --> 00:30:05,180 So, it's left to the club. 793 00:30:05,180 --> 00:30:07,420 Being amateur clubs, this is our side gig, 794 00:30:07,420 --> 00:30:10,020 this is what we do for fun, this is what we do to pass time. 795 00:30:10,020 --> 00:30:12,940 To have everything thrown at us to look after this 796 00:30:12,940 --> 00:30:13,180 To have everything thrown at us is just...it's not good enough. 797 00:30:13,180 --> 00:30:14,940 is just...it's not good enough. 798 00:30:15,900 --> 00:30:19,740 Football Australia says it allows and monitors betting 799 00:30:19,740 --> 00:30:23,900 as a deliberate strategy to protect the game from integrity threats. 800 00:30:23,900 --> 00:30:27,940 It insists that clubs ARE kept informed about the risks. 801 00:30:27,940 --> 00:30:28,180 It insists that clubs What do you see as the risks of this? 802 00:30:28,180 --> 00:30:30,420 What do you see as the risks of this? 803 00:30:30,420 --> 00:30:32,660 Gambling addiction is obviously the big one. 804 00:30:32,660 --> 00:30:34,940 We've got 250-odd kids at South Springvale 805 00:30:34,940 --> 00:30:36,700 that could be open to this sort of stuff, 806 00:30:36,700 --> 00:30:39,220 which is the last thing you want from a club perspective. 807 00:30:40,060 --> 00:30:42,580 A lot of these kids could get involved in that sort of stuff 808 00:30:42,580 --> 00:30:45,100 that don't understand what the consequences could be. 809 00:30:45,100 --> 00:30:47,060 It would absolutely devastate me 810 00:30:47,060 --> 00:30:49,300 if one of our kids got caught up in this. 811 00:30:49,300 --> 00:30:51,820 They are more vulnerable for a number of reasons. 812 00:30:51,820 --> 00:30:53,860 At community level, it's usually 813 00:30:53,860 --> 00:30:55,500 you're just playing for fun. 814 00:30:55,500 --> 00:30:57,340 So, if somebody came along 815 00:30:57,340 --> 00:30:59,020 and offered someone $10,000 816 00:30:59,020 --> 00:30:59,260 and offered to fix a match in some way, 817 00:30:59,260 --> 00:31:01,620 to fix a match in some way, 818 00:31:01,620 --> 00:31:03,540 whether it was for a goalkeeper 819 00:31:03,540 --> 00:31:06,300 to let in a number of goals at a particular time 820 00:31:06,300 --> 00:31:10,580 or for somebody, a referee, to get a red card or whatever it was, 821 00:31:10,580 --> 00:31:13,580 then that's obviously going to be a much bigger incentive 822 00:31:13,580 --> 00:31:17,020 than for trying to influence someone with $10,000 823 00:31:17,020 --> 00:31:17,260 than for trying to influence someone in the top leagues around the world. 824 00:31:17,260 --> 00:31:19,700 in the top leagues around the world. 825 00:31:19,700 --> 00:31:19,940 It's kind of like a powder keg, in the top leagues around the world. 826 00:31:19,940 --> 00:31:21,500 It's kind of like a powder keg, right? 827 00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:21,740 It's kind of like a powder keg, Yes, it is 828 00:31:21,740 --> 00:31:22,540 Yes, it is 829 00:31:22,540 --> 00:31:24,500 because all of those forces coming together 830 00:31:24,500 --> 00:31:24,740 because all of those forces just make the risks enormous, 831 00:31:24,740 --> 00:31:26,260 just make the risks enormous, 832 00:31:26,260 --> 00:31:26,500 and when you don't educate and raise just make the risks enormous, 833 00:31:26,500 --> 00:31:31,940 and when you don't educate and raise the awareness at those lower levels, 834 00:31:31,940 --> 00:31:33,980 people think, "It's not going to happen to us," 835 00:31:33,980 --> 00:31:35,660 and they don't think about what could be happening 836 00:31:35,660 --> 00:31:35,900 and they don't think about in their own backyard. 837 00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:37,100 in their own backyard. 838 00:31:40,420 --> 00:31:42,620 Have a look at that fourth quarter. 839 00:31:42,620 --> 00:31:45,820 The only dedicated police unit set up to tackle this problem 840 00:31:45,820 --> 00:31:46,060 The only dedicated police unit is based in Victoria. 841 00:31:46,060 --> 00:31:47,700 is based in Victoria. 842 00:31:47,700 --> 00:31:47,940 It's not obvious to me that is based in Victoria. 843 00:31:47,940 --> 00:31:52,780 It's not obvious to me that they're trying to throw the match. 844 00:31:52,780 --> 00:31:53,020 It's not obvious to me that CHRIS GILBERT: Match fixing itself 845 00:31:53,020 --> 00:31:54,380 CHRIS GILBERT: Match fixing itself 846 00:31:54,380 --> 00:31:56,420 can be done by targeting vulnerable athletes 847 00:31:56,420 --> 00:31:58,940 who don't get as well-paid as others. 848 00:31:58,940 --> 00:32:00,260 So, there's an opportunity there 849 00:32:00,260 --> 00:32:02,940 for those that want to try and corrupt matches to target them. 850 00:32:02,940 --> 00:32:04,980 There's lots of interest, lots of betting markets. 851 00:32:04,980 --> 00:32:07,500 Victoria Police Assistant Commissioner Chris Gilbert 852 00:32:07,500 --> 00:32:11,060 sees a growing threat from offshore gambling markets 853 00:32:11,060 --> 00:32:11,300 sees a growing threat that are beyond the unit's reach. 854 00:32:11,300 --> 00:32:14,140 that are beyond the unit's reach. 855 00:32:14,140 --> 00:32:14,380 It is more around what is occurring offshore that are beyond the unit's reach. 856 00:32:14,380 --> 00:32:16,660 It is more around what is occurring offshore 857 00:32:16,660 --> 00:32:19,140 that is probably outside of our remit 858 00:32:19,140 --> 00:32:20,700 that poses more of a challenge. 859 00:32:20,700 --> 00:32:22,820 So, regulated markets domestically, 860 00:32:22,820 --> 00:32:23,020 So, regulated markets domestically, regulated markets offshore 861 00:32:23,020 --> 00:32:24,740 regulated markets offshore 862 00:32:24,740 --> 00:32:26,900 are really quite strong in our view. 863 00:32:26,900 --> 00:32:27,140 It's an unregulated are really quite strong in our view. 864 00:32:27,140 --> 00:32:28,900 It's an unregulated market environment 865 00:32:28,900 --> 00:32:29,140 It's an unregulated that poses the greatest threat. 866 00:32:29,140 --> 00:32:30,740 that poses the greatest threat. 867 00:32:34,220 --> 00:32:39,260 Even regulated Australian bookmakers have been caught up in match fixing. 868 00:32:39,260 --> 00:32:41,020 Police, mate. Come to the front door, please. 869 00:32:43,900 --> 00:32:45,220 In 2020 870 00:32:45,220 --> 00:32:48,780 former professional table tennis player Adam Green 871 00:32:48,780 --> 00:32:51,620 was charged over betting on fixed Eastern European matches 872 00:32:51,620 --> 00:32:57,100 via 10 bookmakers, including Sportsbet, Neds and PointsBet. 873 00:32:58,060 --> 00:33:00,220 He pleaded guilty in May. 874 00:33:00,220 --> 00:33:01,460 Court documents show 875 00:33:01,460 --> 00:33:04,940 he was placing the bets on behalf of a contact in Ukraine 876 00:33:04,940 --> 00:33:05,180 he was placing the bets and took 20% of the profits. 877 00:33:05,180 --> 00:33:08,100 and took 20% of the profits. 878 00:33:10,540 --> 00:33:13,740 Table tennis has been booming on global betting markets 879 00:33:13,740 --> 00:33:17,620 ever since the COVID lockdowns interrupted more popular sports. 880 00:33:17,620 --> 00:33:22,700 Even Australia's biggest bookmakers offer gambling on obscure tournaments 881 00:33:22,700 --> 00:33:25,900 played in gymnasiums in Eastern Europe. 882 00:33:25,900 --> 00:33:27,940 The tournaments were set up to fill a gap, essentially. 883 00:33:27,940 --> 00:33:28,220 So, there was no sport taking place at that time globally, The tournaments were set up to fill a gap, essentially. 884 00:33:28,220 --> 00:33:32,060 So, there was no sport taking place at that time globally, 885 00:33:32,060 --> 00:33:32,340 So, there was no sport taking place at that time globally, it was easier to set up a sports hall 886 00:33:32,340 --> 00:33:34,100 it was easier to set up a sports hall 887 00:33:34,100 --> 00:33:37,820 and a mobile phone to stream a table tennis match at that time. 888 00:33:37,820 --> 00:33:38,060 and a mobile phone to stream And there was a demand 889 00:33:38,060 --> 00:33:39,300 And there was a demand 890 00:33:39,300 --> 00:33:39,540 for people who were actually And there was a demand 891 00:33:39,540 --> 00:33:42,700 for people who were actually sat at home wanting to gamble 892 00:33:42,700 --> 00:33:45,340 but had nothing to gamble on legitimately. 893 00:33:46,300 --> 00:33:49,260 Kevin Carpenter heads the integrity unit 894 00:33:49,260 --> 00:33:51,580 at the International Table Tennis Federation, 895 00:33:51,580 --> 00:33:51,820 at the International which is grappling 896 00:33:51,820 --> 00:33:53,060 which is grappling 897 00:33:53,060 --> 00:33:56,820 with the sudden global gambling interest in its sport. 898 00:33:56,820 --> 00:33:58,860 Some of the markets where the betting takes place, 899 00:33:58,860 --> 00:34:00,100 they're not regulated markets, 900 00:34:00,100 --> 00:34:00,300 and that's beyond our control. they're not regulated markets, 901 00:34:00,300 --> 00:34:01,620 and that's beyond our control. 902 00:34:01,620 --> 00:34:01,860 and that's beyond our control. We're still building a complete picture 903 00:34:01,860 --> 00:34:03,860 We're still building a complete picture 904 00:34:03,860 --> 00:34:04,140 of the players that have been playing these tournaments. We're still building a complete picture 905 00:34:04,140 --> 00:34:06,180 of the players that have been playing these tournaments. 906 00:34:06,180 --> 00:34:06,460 of the players that have been playing these tournaments. Obviously, the records have not always been well kept, 907 00:34:06,460 --> 00:34:08,340 Obviously, the records have not always been well kept, 908 00:34:08,340 --> 00:34:10,380 the scores have not always been available. 909 00:34:10,380 --> 00:34:10,620 the scores have not always There's always a risk 910 00:34:10,620 --> 00:34:11,740 There's always a risk 911 00:34:11,740 --> 00:34:13,380 when they're playing in this sort of 912 00:34:13,380 --> 00:34:13,620 amateur or semi-professional when they're playing in this sort of 913 00:34:13,620 --> 00:34:15,860 amateur or semi-professional tournaments. 914 00:34:15,860 --> 00:34:17,900 We know from other sports, 915 00:34:17,900 --> 00:34:20,820 we know from other racket sports, from other one-on-one sports. 916 00:34:20,820 --> 00:34:21,060 we know from other racket sports, We're not naive in that respect. 917 00:34:21,060 --> 00:34:22,740 We're not naive in that respect. 918 00:34:24,300 --> 00:34:27,580 Adam Green made more than $50,000 919 00:34:27,580 --> 00:34:30,900 betting on 39 fixed table tennis matches 920 00:34:30,900 --> 00:34:34,180 during the height of the pandemic in 2020. 921 00:34:34,180 --> 00:34:37,580 Text messages show he was fed details of rigged games 922 00:34:37,580 --> 00:34:37,820 Text messages show by his Ukrainian contact. 923 00:34:37,820 --> 00:34:39,740 by his Ukrainian contact. 924 00:34:52,780 --> 00:34:57,140 He's admitted to trying to conceal payments he sent back to his contact. 925 00:35:02,740 --> 00:35:07,540 Green used 11 betting accounts set up in the names of friends and family, 926 00:35:07,540 --> 00:35:07,780 Green used 11 betting accounts set up and avoided detection 927 00:35:07,780 --> 00:35:09,020 and avoided detection 928 00:35:09,020 --> 00:35:12,980 until one of the bookmakers picked up on the suspicious betting. 929 00:35:15,140 --> 00:35:16,620 G'day. Adam Green? 930 00:35:16,620 --> 00:35:18,860 I'm Pat McGrath from Four Corners at the ABC. 931 00:35:18,860 --> 00:35:19,100 I'm Pat McGrath Yep? 932 00:35:19,100 --> 00:35:20,060 Yep? 933 00:35:20,060 --> 00:35:21,020 Have you got a sec to talk about 934 00:35:21,020 --> 00:35:23,620 the charges involving the table tennis with us for a minute? 935 00:35:23,620 --> 00:35:23,860 the charges involving the table No. No. Sorry. 936 00:35:23,860 --> 00:35:24,980 No. No. Sorry. 937 00:35:24,980 --> 00:35:27,380 Just wanted to work out just some basics about it 938 00:35:27,380 --> 00:35:29,060 if you've got some time. 939 00:35:29,060 --> 00:35:32,580 Adam Green's due to be sentenced in September. 940 00:35:33,540 --> 00:35:35,580 Many of Australia's big bookmakers 941 00:35:35,580 --> 00:35:35,820 are still offering betting on Many of Australia's big bookmakers 942 00:35:35,820 --> 00:35:40,220 are still offering betting on the tournaments involved in his case. 943 00:35:40,220 --> 00:35:42,380 We've worked closely with New South Wales Police 944 00:35:42,380 --> 00:35:46,500 to assist them with this particular prosecution against Mr Green 945 00:35:46,500 --> 00:35:46,740 to assist them with this particular and his accomplices along the way. 946 00:35:46,740 --> 00:35:48,980 and his accomplices along the way. 947 00:35:48,980 --> 00:35:51,220 It's an example of what can happen. 948 00:35:51,220 --> 00:35:54,060 There's a very limited amount we can do as a sport 949 00:35:54,060 --> 00:35:58,380 to prevent betting companies either regulated or unregulated 950 00:35:58,380 --> 00:36:01,580 from offering markets on table tennis around the world. 951 00:36:01,580 --> 00:36:03,820 We hope to introduce a licensing system 952 00:36:03,820 --> 00:36:07,380 whereby you will have to get prior authorisation from ITTF 953 00:36:07,380 --> 00:36:07,620 whereby you will have to get to be able to hold 954 00:36:07,620 --> 00:36:08,860 to be able to hold 955 00:36:08,860 --> 00:36:11,940 even a national-level event that offers any betting 956 00:36:11,940 --> 00:36:13,980 so we then have that visibility. 957 00:36:13,980 --> 00:36:16,460 It's very difficult to control that entire world... 958 00:36:16,460 --> 00:36:18,220 The risks may have grown, 959 00:36:18,220 --> 00:36:20,140 yet the federal-government body 960 00:36:20,140 --> 00:36:20,380 tasked with protecting yet the federal-government body 961 00:36:20,380 --> 00:36:21,860 tasked with protecting sports integrity 962 00:36:21,860 --> 00:36:25,020 hasn't been given the power or resources 963 00:36:25,020 --> 00:36:28,820 to monitor any gambling markets in Australia or abroad. 964 00:36:28,820 --> 00:36:29,060 to monitor any gambling markets Sport Integrity Australia 965 00:36:29,060 --> 00:36:31,300 Sport Integrity Australia 966 00:36:31,300 --> 00:36:34,260 wants a dedicated unit to monitor betting markets, 967 00:36:34,260 --> 00:36:37,700 but the federal government is sitting on the proposal. 968 00:36:37,700 --> 00:36:40,740 Does Sport Integrity Australia have all the tools and all the power 969 00:36:40,740 --> 00:36:40,980 Does Sport Integrity Australia it needs to do this job? 970 00:36:40,980 --> 00:36:42,420 it needs to do this job? 971 00:36:42,420 --> 00:36:42,660 JASON WHYBROW: At the moment it needs to do this job? 972 00:36:42,660 --> 00:36:44,540 JASON WHYBROW: At the moment we certainly are playing the role 973 00:36:44,540 --> 00:36:48,860 of coordinating and providing added value to those other agencies. 974 00:36:48,860 --> 00:36:50,500 Would it be good to have some more powers, though, 975 00:36:50,500 --> 00:36:52,700 to kind of actively monitor these markets? 976 00:36:52,700 --> 00:36:52,980 Oh, that's a question that we will work through to kind of actively monitor these markets? 977 00:36:52,980 --> 00:36:55,300 Oh, that's a question that we will work through 978 00:36:55,300 --> 00:36:57,260 as we develop our responses 979 00:36:57,260 --> 00:36:59,260 with all of those other partners. 980 00:36:59,260 --> 00:36:59,500 with all of those other partners. So, we at the moment are very much in the space 981 00:36:59,500 --> 00:37:01,820 So, we at the moment are very much in the space 982 00:37:01,820 --> 00:37:03,380 of trying to assist the other agencies 983 00:37:03,380 --> 00:37:06,220 who have those responsibilities at the moment. 984 00:37:06,220 --> 00:37:06,460 who have those responsibilities (CHEERING) 985 00:37:06,460 --> 00:37:07,660 (CHEERING) 986 00:37:07,660 --> 00:37:10,140 Federal sport minister, Anika Wells, 987 00:37:10,140 --> 00:37:10,380 says the government Federal sport minister, Anika Wells, 988 00:37:10,380 --> 00:37:13,020 says the government is still considering the proposal 989 00:37:13,020 --> 00:37:13,260 says the government to monitor betting markets. 990 00:37:13,260 --> 00:37:15,100 to monitor betting markets. 991 00:37:15,100 --> 00:37:16,860 (CHEERING) 992 00:37:19,060 --> 00:37:21,020 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 993 00:37:21,020 --> 00:37:24,460 There is a real need to have a bigger vision for our city. 994 00:37:24,460 --> 00:37:26,500 We're the fastest-growing capital city... 995 00:37:26,500 --> 00:37:29,940 Momentum is building to rein in the influence of gambling 996 00:37:29,940 --> 00:37:32,180 on Australian sport. 997 00:37:32,180 --> 00:37:36,020 Senator David Pocock and other Independents are leading the push 998 00:37:36,020 --> 00:37:40,100 for government to crack down on gambling advertising and sponsorship. 999 00:37:40,100 --> 00:37:42,620 I know what it was like to be a young kid 1000 00:37:42,620 --> 00:37:44,980 who just idolised rugby players 1001 00:37:44,980 --> 00:37:45,180 and was watching their every move who just idolised rugby players 1002 00:37:45,180 --> 00:37:46,940 and was watching their every move 1003 00:37:46,940 --> 00:37:49,780 and, yeah, if they were associated with a brand, 1004 00:37:49,780 --> 00:37:50,020 and, yeah, if they were associated that would've done something to me 1005 00:37:50,020 --> 00:37:52,260 that would've done something to me 1006 00:37:52,260 --> 00:37:54,700 in terms of how I related to that brand. 1007 00:37:54,700 --> 00:37:56,860 So, you know, I think this is a hard conversation 1008 00:37:56,860 --> 00:37:59,380 when it comes down to sports sponsorship. 1009 00:37:59,380 --> 00:38:03,060 The former Wallabies captain knows the clubs and major codes 1010 00:38:03,060 --> 00:38:06,020 won't give up their gambling windfall easily. 1011 00:38:06,020 --> 00:38:08,660 We've just got to make sure that it's working. 1012 00:38:08,660 --> 00:38:10,700 My sense is that people have had enough 1013 00:38:10,700 --> 00:38:10,940 My sense is that and they want this dealt with, 1014 00:38:10,940 --> 00:38:12,220 and they want this dealt with, 1015 00:38:12,220 --> 00:38:12,460 not with some of the tinkering and they want this dealt with, 1016 00:38:12,460 --> 00:38:14,700 not with some of the tinkering that we see suggested 1017 00:38:14,700 --> 00:38:18,780 but really well-thought-out, broad reform. 1018 00:38:18,780 --> 00:38:23,700 These sort of changes are hard, and there's no doubt about that. 1019 00:38:23,700 --> 00:38:27,980 But I think it's really having these honest conversations 1020 00:38:27,980 --> 00:38:31,900 and doing what's best for Australians, for our communities. 1021 00:38:35,780 --> 00:38:37,980 (CHEERING) 1022 00:38:37,980 --> 00:38:40,020 COMMENTATOR: This is gonna be an absolute ripper. 1023 00:38:40,020 --> 00:38:41,660 It is a mouth-watering match-up. 1024 00:38:41,660 --> 00:38:43,780 (WHISTLE BLOWS) (CHEERING) 1025 00:38:43,780 --> 00:38:46,300 Western Sydney are slight favourites in our match result market. 1026 00:38:46,300 --> 00:38:48,460 The market has reacted and backed the Blues. 1027 00:38:48,460 --> 00:38:49,820 COMMENTATOR: And we are underway! 1028 00:38:49,820 --> 00:38:50,980 (CHEERING) 1029 00:38:50,980 --> 00:38:52,900 PRESENTER: If your team leads by two goals at any time, 1030 00:38:52,900 --> 00:38:53,140 PRESENTER: If your team you'll get paid out as a winner. 1031 00:38:53,140 --> 00:38:54,500 you'll get paid out as a winner. 1032 00:38:54,500 --> 00:38:58,180 Sport is such a big part of Australian culture. 1033 00:38:58,180 --> 00:39:00,580 PRESENTER: Let's get a quick update from Sportsbet right now, though. 1034 00:39:00,580 --> 00:39:00,820 PRESENTER: Let's get a quick update (CHEERING) 1035 00:39:00,820 --> 00:39:02,820 (CHEERING) 1036 00:39:02,820 --> 00:39:04,220 We love watching sport. 1037 00:39:04,220 --> 00:39:06,060 It's now becoming about the odds 1038 00:39:06,060 --> 00:39:06,300 and, you know, the betting side It's now becoming about the odds 1039 00:39:06,300 --> 00:39:10,940 and, you know, the betting side of things, it's everywhere now. 1040 00:39:10,940 --> 00:39:11,180 and, you know, the betting side And we've left it so long 1041 00:39:11,180 --> 00:39:12,620 And we've left it so long 1042 00:39:12,620 --> 00:39:14,540 that there's a real expectation 1043 00:39:14,540 --> 00:39:17,620 that there will be big changes from all sides of politics. 1044 00:39:17,620 --> 00:39:19,860 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 1045 00:39:19,860 --> 00:39:21,740 PETER DUTTON: The bombardment of betting ads 1046 00:39:21,740 --> 00:39:22,020 takes the joy out of televised sports. PETER DUTTON: The bombardment of betting ads 1047 00:39:22,020 --> 00:39:24,340 takes the joy out of televised sports. 1048 00:39:24,340 --> 00:39:27,820 Worse, they're changing the culture of our country in a bad way 1049 00:39:27,820 --> 00:39:28,100 Worse, they're changing the culture of our country in a bad way and normalising gambling at a young age. 1050 00:39:28,100 --> 00:39:30,420 and normalising gambling at a young age. 1051 00:39:30,420 --> 00:39:32,660 Many Australian families have had enough. 1052 00:39:32,660 --> 00:39:35,260 On the question of gambling advertising, 1053 00:39:35,260 --> 00:39:39,820 the language from both the opposition and the government has hardened. 1054 00:39:39,820 --> 00:39:42,740 Are you willing to gazump the Opposition Leader 1055 00:39:42,740 --> 00:39:42,980 Are you willing and propose a total ban? 1056 00:39:42,980 --> 00:39:44,820 and propose a total ban? 1057 00:39:44,820 --> 00:39:46,340 Uh... Considering it. 1058 00:39:46,340 --> 00:39:47,780 Got a big agenda there, 1059 00:39:47,780 --> 00:39:47,980 and we'd contemplate going further. Got a big agenda there, 1060 00:39:47,980 --> 00:39:50,460 and we'd contemplate going further. 1061 00:39:50,460 --> 00:39:50,660 and we'd contemplate going further. (LAUGHTER, CHATTER) 1062 00:39:50,660 --> 00:39:53,740 (LAUGHTER, CHATTER) 1063 00:39:53,740 --> 00:39:57,780 PUB PATRON: I feel like it's every new person that turns 18 1064 00:39:57,780 --> 00:39:58,020 PUB PATRON: I feel like is looking at an ad and going, 1065 00:39:58,020 --> 00:39:59,100 is looking at an ad and going, 1066 00:39:59,100 --> 00:39:59,340 "Oh, the NRL is looking at an ad and going, 1067 00:39:59,340 --> 00:40:01,700 "Oh, the NRL are promoting this betting agency, 1068 00:40:01,700 --> 00:40:01,940 "Oh, the NRL "I better get on and have a bet." 1069 00:40:01,940 --> 00:40:03,860 "I better get on and have a bet." 1070 00:40:03,860 --> 00:40:05,740 I feel like every ad break 1071 00:40:05,740 --> 00:40:09,660 you're getting either a TAB or a SportsBet ad. 1072 00:40:09,660 --> 00:40:13,540 I know a lot of my mates like to have a punt on the NRL. 1073 00:40:13,540 --> 00:40:13,780 I know a lot of my mates Pretty much everyone, really. 1074 00:40:13,780 --> 00:40:16,340 Pretty much everyone, really. 1075 00:40:16,340 --> 00:40:19,220 You know, I probably put on a couple of multis every week. 1076 00:40:20,180 --> 00:40:23,500 SPECTATOR: A cheeky kind of $5 or $10 here or there, 1077 00:40:23,500 --> 00:40:26,020 but I guess that adds up if you're not controlling it 1078 00:40:26,020 --> 00:40:26,260 but I guess that adds up or looking after what you're doing. 1079 00:40:26,260 --> 00:40:27,500 or looking after what you're doing. 1080 00:40:27,500 --> 00:40:30,540 I've seen other mates sort of lose control a little bit. 1081 00:40:30,540 --> 00:40:34,260 It's those types of betting that sort of prey on addictive behaviour. 1082 00:40:34,260 --> 00:40:34,500 It's those types of betting that Is there too much gambling in sport? 1083 00:40:34,500 --> 00:40:37,180 Is there too much gambling in sport? 1084 00:40:37,180 --> 00:40:40,300 I certainly think it's advertised too strongly. 1085 00:40:40,300 --> 00:40:43,660 Especially when you've got kids growing up, going to games. 1086 00:40:43,660 --> 00:40:46,620 I think if you choose to bet then that's on you as an adult, 1087 00:40:46,620 --> 00:40:50,340 but I don't think it should be necessarily pushed through all media 1088 00:40:50,340 --> 00:40:50,580 but I don't think it should be I suppose, really, 1089 00:40:50,580 --> 00:40:51,460 I suppose, really, 1090 00:40:51,460 --> 00:40:54,180 whether it's online or on the TV or the radio as well. 1091 00:40:54,180 --> 00:40:55,220 Like, it's everywhere. 1092 00:40:59,780 --> 00:41:03,820 We've come to mid-week training with the Sydney Swans. 1093 00:41:05,700 --> 00:41:08,180 Along with all the Victorian AFL teams, 1094 00:41:08,180 --> 00:41:11,100 the Swans have taken a stand on gambling 1095 00:41:11,100 --> 00:41:11,340 the Swans have taken a stand that is at odds with the league. 1096 00:41:11,340 --> 00:41:13,780 that is at odds with the league. 1097 00:41:13,780 --> 00:41:16,180 TOM HARLEY: It's clearly been a shift, 1098 00:41:16,180 --> 00:41:18,420 certainly from when I was a fan and when I was a boy 1099 00:41:18,420 --> 00:41:19,780 and also from when I was a player. 1100 00:41:19,780 --> 00:41:20,020 I'm not sure what my odds would've been and also from when I was a player. 1101 00:41:20,020 --> 00:41:21,460 I'm not sure what my odds would've been 1102 00:41:21,460 --> 00:41:23,700 to get over 20 possessions in any game, 1103 00:41:23,700 --> 00:41:24,940 and I never had to think about it. 1104 00:41:24,940 --> 00:41:25,140 and I never had to think about it. (WHISTLE BLOWS) 1105 00:41:25,140 --> 00:41:26,940 (WHISTLE BLOWS) 1106 00:41:26,940 --> 00:41:31,140 Tom Harley won two premierships as captain of Geelong. 1107 00:41:31,140 --> 00:41:31,380 Tom Harley won two premierships (INDISTINCT YELLING) 1108 00:41:31,380 --> 00:41:34,100 (INDISTINCT YELLING) 1109 00:41:34,100 --> 00:41:34,340 TOM HARLEY: (INDISTINCT YELLING) 1110 00:41:34,340 --> 00:41:35,780 TOM HARLEY: I'm not a punter, I never have been. 1111 00:41:35,780 --> 00:41:39,820 Now the rhetoric seems to sort of lead towards the odds of the games, 1112 00:41:39,820 --> 00:41:41,940 and that starts to become the language. 1113 00:41:41,940 --> 00:41:44,020 And, so, that's something that's absolutely shifted. 1114 00:41:44,020 --> 00:41:45,940 It's certainly a part of the industry 1115 00:41:45,940 --> 00:41:47,740 and certainly part of our game. 1116 00:41:47,740 --> 00:41:49,420 But, from a Swans point of view, 1117 00:41:49,420 --> 00:41:52,140 it's not part of the way we sort of promote our club. 1118 00:41:52,140 --> 00:41:52,420 When you come and watch our home games... it's not part of the way we sort of promote our club. 1119 00:41:52,420 --> 00:41:54,380 When you come and watch our home games... 1120 00:41:54,380 --> 00:41:56,620 You won't see any sports-betting promotions. 1121 00:41:57,540 --> 00:42:00,100 As chief executive of the Swans, 1122 00:42:00,100 --> 00:42:03,500 he's one of the leading faces in a campaign 1123 00:42:03,500 --> 00:42:07,140 to banish gambling advertising from his club and home ground. 1124 00:42:12,700 --> 00:42:14,940 TOM HARLEY: We're a commercial business, we've got assets, 1125 00:42:14,940 --> 00:42:17,820 and one of our key assets is a clean stadium. 1126 00:42:17,820 --> 00:42:20,060 What kind of response have you had from fans and members 1127 00:42:20,060 --> 00:42:22,300 about this decision? Yeah, really, really positive. 1128 00:42:22,300 --> 00:42:23,700 Really supportive of the fact 1129 00:42:23,700 --> 00:42:25,380 that when they come to the SCG 1130 00:42:25,380 --> 00:42:26,700 there is no gambling advertising. 1131 00:42:29,420 --> 00:42:32,060 We have taken proactive measures 1132 00:42:32,060 --> 00:42:36,580 to remove gambling from our stadium, from our platforms, 1133 00:42:36,580 --> 00:42:40,460 because we think it's a social-leadership position. 1134 00:42:41,420 --> 00:42:43,660 But the gambling companies would pay more, right? 1135 00:42:43,660 --> 00:42:46,540 They'd love to have their logo across a Swans jumper, wouldn't they? 1136 00:42:46,540 --> 00:42:48,820 (LAUGHS) Who knows? Who knows? 1137 00:42:48,820 --> 00:42:50,460 It's not a conversation I... 1138 00:42:50,460 --> 00:42:52,860 I genuinely mean this - 1139 00:42:52,860 --> 00:42:54,540 it's not a conversation I've ever had. 1140 00:42:54,540 --> 00:42:57,540 The things that we can control are the people who we partner with. 1141 00:42:57,540 --> 00:43:00,380 And in saying that, we're respectful of other organisations and entities 1142 00:43:00,380 --> 00:43:00,620 And in saying that, we're respectful that go down a different path. 1143 00:43:00,620 --> 00:43:03,180 that go down a different path. 1144 00:43:03,180 --> 00:43:05,300 We're realistic about that. 1145 00:43:05,300 --> 00:43:07,220 So, you know, as a club, 1146 00:43:07,220 --> 00:43:10,580 I'd like to think we've had a history of being able to stand up... 1147 00:43:10,580 --> 00:43:13,420 ..stand on our own two feet, stand up for what we believe in. 1148 00:43:13,420 --> 00:43:16,220 AD VOICEOVER: Get that same-game multi feeling! 1149 00:43:16,220 --> 00:43:20,060 For the sporting codes that rely so heavily on gambling, 1150 00:43:20,060 --> 00:43:24,620 breaking the nation's betting habit will come at a cost. 1151 00:43:24,620 --> 00:43:26,140 CATHERINE ORDWAY: We've reached a point now 1152 00:43:26,140 --> 00:43:28,660 where we can't really turn back the clock 1153 00:43:28,660 --> 00:43:32,940 and it's really difficult to undo those bonds. 1154 00:43:32,940 --> 00:43:33,180 and it's really difficult How urgent is this to get this right? 1155 00:43:33,180 --> 00:43:35,060 How urgent is this to get this right? 1156 00:43:35,060 --> 00:43:36,060 Well, it's really urgent 1157 00:43:36,060 --> 00:43:40,300 if you think about Australia and the importance of sport to Australians. 1158 00:43:40,300 --> 00:43:43,020 We want to be a leading nation in the sport-integrity space 1159 00:43:43,020 --> 00:43:43,260 We want to be a leading nation as well as on the field. 1160 00:43:43,260 --> 00:43:45,180 as well as on the field. 1161 00:43:45,180 --> 00:43:47,180 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 1162 00:43:47,180 --> 00:43:50,820 DAVID POCOCK: Australians lose $25 billion a year gambling. 1163 00:43:50,820 --> 00:43:52,460 That's the most per capita in the world. 1164 00:43:52,460 --> 00:43:54,620 We're the biggest losers in the world when it comes to gambling. 1165 00:43:54,620 --> 00:43:56,020 That's not something we should be proud of 1166 00:43:56,020 --> 00:43:56,260 That's not something if you've got young kids 1167 00:43:56,260 --> 00:43:57,780 if you've got young kids 1168 00:43:57,780 --> 00:43:58,020 and you know that this is if you've got young kids 1169 00:43:58,020 --> 00:44:01,940 and you know that this is normalising gambling for them. 1170 00:44:01,940 --> 00:44:04,660 We're not setting them up for success. 1171 00:44:04,660 --> 00:44:06,300 HUNTER FUJAK: If we don't do anything, 1172 00:44:06,300 --> 00:44:06,540 HUNTER FUJAK: we continue down this path, 1173 00:44:06,540 --> 00:44:07,980 we continue down this path, 1174 00:44:07,980 --> 00:44:09,340 we probably get to a point where 1175 00:44:09,340 --> 00:44:11,340 five-year-olds can tell you 1176 00:44:11,340 --> 00:44:15,540 what 3-to-1 or $3.65 means if you bet $80. 1177 00:44:15,540 --> 00:44:17,620 And that might be good for their math skills, 1178 00:44:17,620 --> 00:44:19,300 but maybe not so good for society.