1 00:00:16,460 --> 00:00:19,900 REPORTER: Snowy 2.0 was sold as nation building 2 00:00:19,900 --> 00:00:20,140 REPORTER: Snowy 2.0 was sold for a low-carbon future. 3 00:00:20,140 --> 00:00:21,660 for a low-carbon future. 4 00:00:22,740 --> 00:00:24,180 MALCOLM TURNBULL: It's a revolution. 5 00:00:24,180 --> 00:00:27,260 It's exciting from a technical and engineering point of view, 6 00:00:27,260 --> 00:00:31,220 but it's absolutely critical to save the planet from being fried. 7 00:00:32,780 --> 00:00:37,660 A mega project that could power up to 3 million homes 8 00:00:37,660 --> 00:00:37,900 A mega project that could power for an entire week. 9 00:00:37,900 --> 00:00:39,740 for an entire week. 10 00:00:39,740 --> 00:00:39,980 MAN: We are building something for an entire week. 11 00:00:39,980 --> 00:00:41,500 MAN: We are building something which is 12 00:00:41,500 --> 00:00:44,860 an incredibly valuable asset to the energy transition. 13 00:00:44,860 --> 00:00:49,700 But this pumped hydro scheme has been afflicted by long delays 14 00:00:49,700 --> 00:00:51,580 and massive cost blow-outs. 15 00:00:53,020 --> 00:00:57,420 I knew it was just going to be an absolute dog of a project. 16 00:00:57,420 --> 00:00:59,980 MAN: They were making outlandish claims about when the scheme 17 00:00:59,980 --> 00:01:01,860 was going to be finished, and they still are. 18 00:01:05,020 --> 00:01:07,300 So, this is where you've had a lot of the trouble, is it? 19 00:01:07,300 --> 00:01:10,580 Well, further down is where we had the sinkhole. 20 00:01:10,580 --> 00:01:13,100 TURNBULL: Mistakes happen, and that was an expensive one. 21 00:01:13,100 --> 00:01:14,620 MAN: They got the costs wrong, 22 00:01:14,620 --> 00:01:17,780 the ground conditions, the time, the schedule. 23 00:01:17,780 --> 00:01:20,700 And I think the way they levelled with the public, 24 00:01:20,700 --> 00:01:20,940 And I think the way they they've got that wrong too. 25 00:01:20,940 --> 00:01:22,020 they've got that wrong too. 26 00:01:24,180 --> 00:01:28,460 Deep in the Snowy Mountains, a giant tunnel-boring machine is stuck. 27 00:01:28,460 --> 00:01:28,700 Deep in the Snowy Mountains, a giant The perfect illustration 28 00:01:28,700 --> 00:01:30,340 The perfect illustration 29 00:01:30,340 --> 00:01:30,580 of how this so-called "nation-building project" The perfect illustration 30 00:01:30,580 --> 00:01:34,220 of how this so-called "nation-building project" 31 00:01:34,220 --> 00:01:35,980 has gone so horribly wrong. 32 00:01:35,980 --> 00:01:40,180 On this episode of Four Corners, we go beyond the corporate spin 33 00:01:40,180 --> 00:01:40,460 On this episode of Four Corners, we go beyond the corporate spin to reveal the inside story of Snowy 2.0 34 00:01:40,460 --> 00:01:44,460 to reveal the inside story of Snowy 2.0 35 00:01:44,460 --> 00:01:48,940 and how repeated warnings of problems that lay ahead were ignored. 36 00:02:00,620 --> 00:02:04,300 Snowy 2.0 is being built in rugged country 37 00:02:04,300 --> 00:02:04,540 Snowy 2.0 is being built deep in the Kosciuszko National Park. 38 00:02:04,540 --> 00:02:07,020 deep in the Kosciuszko National Park. 39 00:02:14,540 --> 00:02:18,180 The site can only be accessed via steep and winding roads, 40 00:02:18,180 --> 00:02:18,420 The site can only be accessed with permission from Snowy Hydro. 41 00:02:18,420 --> 00:02:20,660 with permission from Snowy Hydro. 42 00:02:42,940 --> 00:02:44,860 Hi there. Hey. G'day. 43 00:02:44,860 --> 00:02:45,860 How are you doing? Good. 44 00:02:45,860 --> 00:02:49,340 Welcome to one of the world's biggest batteries. 45 00:02:49,340 --> 00:02:52,900 Dennis Barnes became Snowy Hydro chief executive in February, 46 00:02:52,900 --> 00:02:56,380 inheriting a project plagued by problems. 47 00:02:56,380 --> 00:02:56,620 inheriting a project How do you feel looking down on this? 48 00:02:56,620 --> 00:02:58,300 How do you feel looking down on this? 49 00:02:58,300 --> 00:03:00,940 I feel incredibly proud of the team 50 00:03:00,940 --> 00:03:03,420 who are delivering this great project. 51 00:03:03,420 --> 00:03:07,500 It was the new CEO's job to announce Snowy 2.0 is 52 00:03:07,500 --> 00:03:07,740 It was the new CEO's job way behind and well over budget. 53 00:03:07,740 --> 00:03:10,900 way behind and well over budget. 54 00:03:10,900 --> 00:03:11,140 It will now cost $12 billion, way behind and well over budget. 55 00:03:11,140 --> 00:03:16,820 It will now cost $12 billion, six times the initial estimate. 56 00:03:16,820 --> 00:03:21,500 For this, Snowy has copped sustained criticism. 57 00:03:21,500 --> 00:03:26,420 So, today Dennis Barnes is walking us through what HAS been built. 58 00:03:26,420 --> 00:03:30,460 ECVT - emergency cabling ventilation. 59 00:03:30,460 --> 00:03:30,700 ECVT - emergency And it goes for about 2.9km. 60 00:03:30,700 --> 00:03:33,660 And it goes for about 2.9km. 61 00:03:33,660 --> 00:03:39,140 This is the tunnel which equipment and people and services 62 00:03:39,140 --> 00:03:41,060 will come in and out of. 63 00:03:41,060 --> 00:03:43,540 So, this one will never have water in it, 64 00:03:43,540 --> 00:03:48,380 but imagine more than 20km of tunnels this size full of water. 65 00:03:50,060 --> 00:03:53,540 So, lots of people have said really harsh things about Snowy 2.0, 66 00:03:53,540 --> 00:03:53,780 So, lots of people have said that it will never be completed. 67 00:03:53,780 --> 00:03:55,100 that it will never be completed. 68 00:03:55,100 --> 00:03:56,300 What do you say to them? 69 00:03:56,300 --> 00:03:56,540 Well, I say I'm here to complete the project. What do you say to them? 70 00:03:56,540 --> 00:03:58,820 Well, I say I'm here to complete the project. 71 00:03:58,820 --> 00:04:03,100 We're 40% of the way in. We've learnt a lot. 72 00:04:03,100 --> 00:04:03,380 We're 40% of the way in. We've learnt a lot. We've now got a contract reset, a way-of-working reset, 73 00:04:03,380 --> 00:04:08,300 We've now got a contract reset, a way-of-working reset, 74 00:04:08,300 --> 00:04:09,980 which I believe will deliver. 75 00:04:09,980 --> 00:04:15,820 And, above all else, it's incredibly important to the energy transition. 76 00:04:15,820 --> 00:04:19,580 And, in addition, it's a good investment. 77 00:04:19,580 --> 00:04:19,820 And, in addition, It will be a good investment. 78 00:04:19,820 --> 00:04:21,100 It will be a good investment. 79 00:04:24,220 --> 00:04:25,820 We're about to go on board 80 00:04:25,820 --> 00:04:29,260 a massive tunnel-boring machine called Florence. 81 00:04:29,260 --> 00:04:32,460 It's at the very heart of Snowy's problems. 82 00:04:33,420 --> 00:04:37,180 MAN: Right, team, so, we're here at the adit for TBM Florence, 83 00:04:37,180 --> 00:04:40,460 and in a moment we'll head down into the actual tunnel 84 00:04:40,460 --> 00:04:42,740 and we'll be able to get up on Florence today. 85 00:04:42,740 --> 00:04:42,980 and we'll be able to get We're not operating today. 86 00:04:42,980 --> 00:04:44,380 We're not operating today. 87 00:04:46,820 --> 00:04:50,260 Florence has barely moved in 19 months. 88 00:04:52,980 --> 00:04:56,340 At the entrance to the tunnel, where the machine is stuck, 89 00:04:56,340 --> 00:05:00,900 sits a small statue of Saint Barbara, the patron saint of tunnelling. 90 00:05:03,260 --> 00:05:07,180 She's charged with protecting workers and watching over projects. 91 00:05:08,820 --> 00:05:11,980 Snowy will be hoping for her good grace. 92 00:05:14,580 --> 00:05:18,900 DENNIS BARNES: We encountered soft ground before we were expecting to. 93 00:05:20,300 --> 00:05:23,940 That soft ground stopped Florence... 94 00:05:23,940 --> 00:05:25,980 Just watch the step hazards. 95 00:05:25,980 --> 00:05:26,220 ..and created a world of pain Just watch the step hazards. 96 00:05:26,220 --> 00:05:29,220 ..and created a world of pain for Dennis Barnes. 97 00:05:30,820 --> 00:05:34,500 Back in May, he faced Senate estimates. 98 00:05:34,500 --> 00:05:34,780 Thank you for appearing again today. Back in May, he faced Senate estimates. 99 00:05:34,780 --> 00:05:37,380 Thank you for appearing again today. 100 00:05:37,380 --> 00:05:41,100 So, Florence is now acknowledged to be bogged. 101 00:05:41,100 --> 00:05:41,340 So, Florence is now When will it be unbogged? 102 00:05:41,340 --> 00:05:43,220 When will it be unbogged? 103 00:05:43,220 --> 00:05:45,300 I expect in weeks, not months. 104 00:05:45,300 --> 00:05:45,540 As soon as the slurry plant I expect in weeks, not months. 105 00:05:45,540 --> 00:05:49,500 As soon as the slurry plant is operating, we'll push forward. 106 00:05:49,500 --> 00:05:49,740 As soon as the slurry plant is operating, we'll push forward. I was wrong. 107 00:05:49,740 --> 00:05:51,620 I was wrong. 108 00:05:51,620 --> 00:05:54,380 There's, you know, mistakes that we all make, 109 00:05:54,380 --> 00:05:54,620 There's, you know, and I was wrong to, you know... 110 00:05:54,620 --> 00:05:56,860 and I was wrong to, you know... 111 00:05:56,860 --> 00:05:59,540 Perhaps somewhat naive and optimistic. 112 00:05:59,540 --> 00:06:02,980 And, you know, I'm learning as I go, as you would expect. 113 00:06:04,940 --> 00:06:08,660 We're actually on tunnel-boring machine Florence, 114 00:06:08,660 --> 00:06:08,900 We're actually on tunnel-boring 150m into the tunnel, 115 00:06:08,900 --> 00:06:12,380 150m into the tunnel, 116 00:06:12,380 --> 00:06:16,300 and we're heading towards the front of the tunnel-boring machine. 117 00:06:18,660 --> 00:06:21,260 What are these steel rims here? 118 00:06:21,260 --> 00:06:23,660 So, they're stabilising the... 119 00:06:24,780 --> 00:06:29,060 ..cement segments, because we know at this point, 120 00:06:29,060 --> 00:06:31,980 the ground is a little bit wet and can be a little bit unstable. 121 00:06:31,980 --> 00:06:35,380 But these are essentially to keep the water back 122 00:06:35,380 --> 00:06:38,260 and to help monitor the movement. 123 00:06:41,460 --> 00:06:44,500 Further down is where we had the sinkhole. 124 00:06:46,060 --> 00:06:48,420 We're about 30m underground. 125 00:06:48,420 --> 00:06:50,820 Just above us is a sinkhole 126 00:06:50,820 --> 00:06:53,820 that's caused so much grief for this project. 127 00:06:56,620 --> 00:06:59,300 We send up the drone to have a look. 128 00:07:01,260 --> 00:07:04,780 The sinkhole is a scar on the landscape, 129 00:07:04,780 --> 00:07:07,300 spilling out of Snowy's construction area 130 00:07:07,300 --> 00:07:10,620 and deeper into the Kosciuszko National Park. 131 00:07:14,380 --> 00:07:16,620 MAN: It represents a complete failure 132 00:07:16,620 --> 00:07:19,780 on behalf of the contractors to construct a tunnel 133 00:07:19,780 --> 00:07:20,060 without damaging the environment around them. on behalf of the contractors to construct a tunnel 134 00:07:20,060 --> 00:07:22,380 without damaging the environment around them. 135 00:07:22,380 --> 00:07:25,100 It's a complete failure of their systems and processes. 136 00:07:35,500 --> 00:07:40,420 The dream for what would become Snowy 2.0 unfolded at a Cooma pub 137 00:07:40,420 --> 00:07:42,140 in early 2017. 138 00:07:49,420 --> 00:07:52,700 An energy crisis had hit parts of the country 139 00:07:52,700 --> 00:07:55,940 and the federal government was in urgent need of a solution. 140 00:07:55,940 --> 00:07:56,180 and the federal government was There you go. 141 00:07:56,180 --> 00:07:57,220 There you go. 142 00:08:01,500 --> 00:08:06,500 At the Alpine Hotel, a place steeped in Snowy Hydro history, 143 00:08:06,500 --> 00:08:08,740 two executives sketched out a plan. 144 00:08:11,500 --> 00:08:14,260 So, it was just a normal weekday evening. 145 00:08:14,260 --> 00:08:18,060 We had a couple of Snowy Hydro execs in having a beer in the corner, 146 00:08:18,060 --> 00:08:18,340 We had a couple of Snowy Hydro execs in having a beer in the corner, and the plan for Snowy 2.0 was just drawn out on a coaster 147 00:08:18,340 --> 00:08:22,700 and the plan for Snowy 2.0 was just drawn out on a coaster 148 00:08:22,700 --> 00:08:24,700 at the corner table over a beer. 149 00:08:26,540 --> 00:08:28,980 Theirs was not a new idea. 150 00:08:28,980 --> 00:08:33,020 They dusted off a blueprint from the 1960s 151 00:08:33,020 --> 00:08:36,660 to extend the original Snowy Hydro scheme 152 00:08:36,660 --> 00:08:39,860 and create what would effectively be a giant battery 153 00:08:39,860 --> 00:08:40,100 and create what would to store renewable energy. 154 00:08:40,100 --> 00:08:42,020 to store renewable energy. 155 00:08:42,020 --> 00:08:46,340 Pub regular and Snowy Hydro enthusiast Peter Wolfe 156 00:08:46,340 --> 00:08:46,580 Pub regular and Snowy Hydro sketches out what happened. 157 00:08:46,580 --> 00:08:48,260 sketches out what happened. 158 00:08:49,500 --> 00:08:53,380 The engineer wanted to explain his idea, 159 00:08:53,380 --> 00:08:53,620 The engineer wanted to based on the early scheme, 160 00:08:53,620 --> 00:08:55,300 based on the early scheme, 161 00:08:55,300 --> 00:08:55,540 and how to take advantage of pumping up a mass of water uphill based on the early scheme, 162 00:08:55,540 --> 00:08:59,220 and how to take advantage of pumping up a mass of water uphill 163 00:08:59,220 --> 00:08:59,460 and storing it, and dropping it down pumping up a mass of water uphill 164 00:08:59,460 --> 00:09:01,420 and storing it, and dropping it down 165 00:09:01,420 --> 00:09:04,060 when they needed peak power in Sydney. 166 00:09:05,060 --> 00:09:08,540 It was just the type of plan then Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull 167 00:09:08,540 --> 00:09:08,780 It was just the type of plan was looking for. 168 00:09:08,780 --> 00:09:10,700 was looking for. 169 00:09:10,700 --> 00:09:10,900 Well, what happened was I... was looking for. 170 00:09:10,900 --> 00:09:13,980 Well, what happened was I... 171 00:09:13,980 --> 00:09:19,020 Going back to 2016, there was a big blackout in South Australia, 172 00:09:19,020 --> 00:09:19,300 Going back to 2016, there was a big blackout in South Australia, and that really got me thinking about our energy system. 173 00:09:19,300 --> 00:09:23,780 and that really got me thinking about our energy system. 174 00:09:23,780 --> 00:09:29,340 I did a lot of reading and research over that summer of 2016-17, 175 00:09:29,340 --> 00:09:34,260 and it became very obvious to me that we needed to prioritise 176 00:09:34,260 --> 00:09:38,980 long-duration energy storage, which meant pumped hydro. 177 00:09:45,100 --> 00:09:47,540 FRAN KELLY: Well, it's the devilishly difficult juggling act 178 00:09:47,540 --> 00:09:50,060 that's dominated political debate this year - 179 00:09:50,060 --> 00:09:53,020 how to reduce carbon emissions, guarantee energy security 180 00:09:53,020 --> 00:09:55,820 and put a brake on rising power prices. 181 00:09:55,820 --> 00:09:59,300 This morning, the Prime Minister will announce another possible fix. 182 00:10:01,540 --> 00:10:05,060 Malcolm Turnbull christened it Snowy 2.0, 183 00:10:05,060 --> 00:10:08,260 a pumped hydro scheme with a vast network of tunnels 184 00:10:08,260 --> 00:10:08,500 a pumped hydro scheme with and a power station 800m underground 185 00:10:08,500 --> 00:10:11,500 and a power station 800m underground 186 00:10:11,500 --> 00:10:15,100 that would provide deep storage for renewable energy. 187 00:10:19,660 --> 00:10:23,020 It's going to be the, 188 00:10:23,020 --> 00:10:27,180 you know, the supercharging of this Snowy Hydro scheme. 189 00:10:27,180 --> 00:10:31,740 And in some ways fully realising the vision of the founders. 190 00:10:31,740 --> 00:10:33,460 I'll come around this way. 191 00:10:35,900 --> 00:10:37,700 OK, sure. 192 00:10:37,700 --> 00:10:39,780 OK. Hey, Em. 193 00:10:42,860 --> 00:10:44,660 I'm good. MAN: How's the tour, Prime Minister? 194 00:10:44,660 --> 00:10:47,180 Oh, fantastic. Pretty spectacular. 195 00:10:47,180 --> 00:10:48,500 It was really spectacular. 196 00:10:48,500 --> 00:10:50,580 Hello. WOMAN: Hi, PM. How are you? 197 00:10:50,580 --> 00:10:50,820 I just shook my head and I thought, Hello. WOMAN: Hi, PM. How are you? 198 00:10:50,820 --> 00:10:52,260 I just shook my head and I thought, 199 00:10:52,260 --> 00:10:55,900 "This is going to be the most expensive photo opportunity 200 00:10:55,900 --> 00:10:57,700 "in Australia's history." 201 00:11:04,060 --> 00:11:07,540 Snowy Hydro. What an extraordinary achievement. 202 00:11:08,740 --> 00:11:11,420 These are big dreams in these mountains. 203 00:11:11,420 --> 00:11:11,660 These are big dreams Real courage. 204 00:11:11,660 --> 00:11:12,740 Real courage. 205 00:11:12,740 --> 00:11:14,780 A belief in the future. 206 00:11:14,780 --> 00:11:16,180 (SHUTTERS CLICK RAPIDLY) 207 00:11:16,180 --> 00:11:18,860 I am a nation-building prime minister, believe me, 208 00:11:18,860 --> 00:11:21,820 and this is a nation-building project. 209 00:11:23,980 --> 00:11:26,300 See you soon. Thank you. Thanks a lot. 210 00:11:27,940 --> 00:11:32,100 "Nation building" are the two most economically damaging words 211 00:11:32,100 --> 00:11:33,540 in the English language. 212 00:11:33,540 --> 00:11:35,140 It's dreadful. 213 00:11:35,140 --> 00:11:38,780 Yeah, well, I mean, just neglecting infrastructure 214 00:11:38,780 --> 00:11:40,180 is pretty destructive too. 215 00:11:40,180 --> 00:11:44,260 So, there's always plenty of knockers that have got a reason. 216 00:11:44,260 --> 00:11:48,260 There's no critically important piece of infrastructure 217 00:11:48,260 --> 00:11:52,220 that somebody has not tried to stop being built. 218 00:11:52,220 --> 00:11:55,700 And if all of the knockers had won, where would we be? 219 00:11:58,340 --> 00:12:03,580 The plan was for a hydroelectric scheme using two existing reservoirs. 220 00:12:03,580 --> 00:12:07,860 From the lower Talbingo Reservoir, water would be pumped uphill 221 00:12:07,860 --> 00:12:12,420 using surplus solar and wind power to Tantangara. 222 00:12:12,420 --> 00:12:16,540 And then, when electricity demand was at its highest, 223 00:12:16,540 --> 00:12:20,420 typically in the early evening, that water could be released. 224 00:12:21,380 --> 00:12:25,140 Using gravity, it would flow downhill through turbines 225 00:12:25,140 --> 00:12:26,900 and produce electricity. 226 00:12:31,300 --> 00:12:34,500 Snowy 2.0 is an engineer's dream. 227 00:12:34,500 --> 00:12:36,900 It's a phenomenally large project. 228 00:12:36,900 --> 00:12:37,140 There's 27km of raceway, of tunnels It's a phenomenally large project. 229 00:12:37,140 --> 00:12:41,900 There's 27km of raceway, of tunnels connecting the two dams together, 230 00:12:41,900 --> 00:12:42,140 There's 27km of raceway, of tunnels connecting the two dams together, 40km in total. 231 00:12:42,140 --> 00:12:43,420 40km in total. 232 00:12:43,420 --> 00:12:47,540 The tunnelling is phenomenally ambitious. 233 00:12:47,540 --> 00:12:50,020 Even the caverns - there are two caverns that have to be drilled, 234 00:12:50,020 --> 00:12:54,580 drilled out or blasted out underground, 800m below the surface. 235 00:12:54,580 --> 00:12:57,780 Each of these caverns are about the same size as the Titanic. 236 00:12:57,780 --> 00:12:58,020 Each of these caverns are about This is a huge project. 237 00:12:58,020 --> 00:12:59,500 This is a huge project. 238 00:12:59,500 --> 00:12:59,700 It didn't stack up. This is a huge project. 239 00:12:59,700 --> 00:13:01,700 It didn't stack up. 240 00:13:01,700 --> 00:13:04,420 Simple as that. It couldn't stack up. 241 00:13:04,420 --> 00:13:04,660 Simple as that. A scheme with 27km of tunnels 242 00:13:04,660 --> 00:13:08,020 A scheme with 27km of tunnels 243 00:13:08,020 --> 00:13:08,260 A scheme with 27km of tunnels can never stack up, economically or technically. 244 00:13:08,260 --> 00:13:11,340 can never stack up, economically or technically. 245 00:13:12,380 --> 00:13:13,420 Simple as that. 246 00:13:33,380 --> 00:13:35,340 Good afternoon. (LAUGHTER) 247 00:13:35,340 --> 00:13:41,140 OK. Alright, well, look, it's great to be here in the Snowy Mountains. 248 00:13:41,140 --> 00:13:43,460 A feasibility study was commissioned 249 00:13:43,460 --> 00:13:48,820 to determine if Snowy 2.0 was technically and financially viable. 250 00:13:48,820 --> 00:13:52,940 Back then, the CEO of Snowy Hydro was Paul Broad. 251 00:13:52,940 --> 00:13:58,620 What Paul is doing is examining all of the geology all along the route 252 00:13:58,620 --> 00:14:01,300 of the tunnelling that will be undertaken 253 00:14:01,300 --> 00:14:05,860 to connect the Tantangara Reservoir to the Talbingo Reservoir. 254 00:14:05,860 --> 00:14:10,700 Despite the many unknowns, the political will was apparent. 255 00:14:10,700 --> 00:14:12,580 Well, how long will it take to build this, Paul? 256 00:14:12,580 --> 00:14:12,820 Well, how long will it take Well, best estimates... 257 00:14:12,820 --> 00:14:13,620 Well, best estimates... 258 00:14:13,620 --> 00:14:16,660 We'll get him...get him on the sticky paper now. 259 00:14:16,660 --> 00:14:19,980 Yeah, well, I don't wanna get the cart before the horse. 260 00:14:19,980 --> 00:14:21,660 The feasibility study will tell us that. 261 00:14:21,660 --> 00:14:24,380 But, you know, a six-years type thing, you know. 262 00:14:24,380 --> 00:14:26,940 And it depends very much on the geology. 263 00:14:26,940 --> 00:14:29,820 And we'll firm that up in the next month or two. 264 00:14:29,820 --> 00:14:32,380 Well, I think it was pretty telling, wasn't it? 265 00:14:33,620 --> 00:14:36,180 Energy market analyst Danny Price 266 00:14:36,180 --> 00:14:36,420 once advised Malcolm Turnbull Energy market analyst Danny Price 267 00:14:36,420 --> 00:14:39,020 once advised Malcolm Turnbull on climate change. 268 00:14:40,780 --> 00:14:44,460 The decision had clearly already been made on this project. 269 00:14:44,460 --> 00:14:45,740 Paul Broad didn't know what to say. 270 00:14:45,740 --> 00:14:49,700 He had to respond quickly, said, "Let's not get ahead of ourselves." 271 00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:52,220 You put Paul Broad on the spot there, though, didn't you - 272 00:14:52,220 --> 00:14:55,220 when you said to him, "How long will it take to build," 273 00:14:55,220 --> 00:14:55,460 when you said to him, "How even before the feasibility study? 274 00:14:55,460 --> 00:14:57,340 even before the feasibility study? 275 00:14:57,340 --> 00:14:59,500 Well, he could have said, "I don't know." 276 00:14:59,500 --> 00:15:01,060 He could have said, "I don't know." 277 00:15:01,060 --> 00:15:03,980 As a prime minister, asking the CEO of a company, 278 00:15:03,980 --> 00:15:05,540 "How long is it going to take to build" 279 00:15:05,540 --> 00:15:09,420 gave the impression that it was already a done deal, did it not? 280 00:15:09,420 --> 00:15:11,140 I don't... No, it did not. It did not. 281 00:15:11,140 --> 00:15:11,380 I don't... No, it did not. The deal is done when it is done, 282 00:15:11,380 --> 00:15:14,100 The deal is done when it is done, 283 00:15:14,100 --> 00:15:17,380 and that is when the decision to invest is made. 284 00:15:17,380 --> 00:15:20,180 Obviously, I thought it was a great opportunity 285 00:15:20,180 --> 00:15:22,420 and I was hoping that it would all stack up. 286 00:15:22,420 --> 00:15:22,660 and I was hoping that But the work was being done. 287 00:15:22,660 --> 00:15:24,100 But the work was being done. 288 00:15:24,100 --> 00:15:27,700 We were spending millions of dollars on, you know, 289 00:15:27,700 --> 00:15:30,780 top engineers and economists and so forth to analyse it. 290 00:15:42,580 --> 00:15:47,220 Snowy 2.0 is an ambitious project in unknown terrain, 291 00:15:47,220 --> 00:15:49,260 just like the original scheme. 292 00:15:57,700 --> 00:16:00,660 The Snowy Mountains Engineering Corp, or SMEC, 293 00:16:00,660 --> 00:16:05,220 emerged from the Snowy Hydro scheme as a respected voice in the industry. 294 00:16:07,060 --> 00:16:11,620 It would be hired to assess the feasibility of Snowy 2.0. 295 00:16:11,620 --> 00:16:14,140 These guys bring lots of experience, you know? 296 00:16:14,140 --> 00:16:15,780 And if you're telling me all the experience 297 00:16:15,780 --> 00:16:18,300 of building hydros around the world, so it's very, very good. 298 00:16:18,300 --> 00:16:20,620 It makes me sleep better at night. 299 00:16:20,620 --> 00:16:22,980 Excellent. Well, you're back where you started. 300 00:16:22,980 --> 00:16:23,980 Yeah. 301 00:16:23,980 --> 00:16:24,220 SMEC is an organisation that has something to say about this Yeah. 302 00:16:24,220 --> 00:16:27,740 SMEC is an organisation that has something to say about this 303 00:16:27,740 --> 00:16:27,980 SMEC is an organisation that people should listen to. 304 00:16:27,980 --> 00:16:29,100 that people should listen to. 305 00:16:29,100 --> 00:16:29,340 I mean, it's their... that people should listen to. 306 00:16:29,340 --> 00:16:31,180 I mean, it's their... it's their origin. 307 00:16:31,180 --> 00:16:31,420 I mean, it's their... It's where they started from, 308 00:16:31,420 --> 00:16:33,220 It's where they started from, 309 00:16:33,220 --> 00:16:33,460 It's where they started from, the Snowy Mountains Engineering Corporation. 310 00:16:33,460 --> 00:16:35,820 the Snowy Mountains Engineering Corporation. 311 00:16:35,820 --> 00:16:38,300 So they grew out of the Snowy Scheme. 312 00:16:38,300 --> 00:16:39,700 They knew what they were talking about. 313 00:16:39,700 --> 00:16:39,940 They knew what they were They should have been listened to. 314 00:16:39,940 --> 00:16:41,580 They should have been listened to. 315 00:16:43,620 --> 00:16:47,900 We've learned some within SMEC were worried about the geology. 316 00:16:49,300 --> 00:16:50,820 Over the last two months, 317 00:16:50,820 --> 00:16:53,220 we've spoken to more than a dozen people 318 00:16:53,220 --> 00:16:55,260 who have worked on Snowy 2.0. 319 00:16:55,260 --> 00:16:58,460 One revealed SMEC wanted more drilling 320 00:16:58,460 --> 00:16:58,700 One revealed SMEC wanted to understand the complex geology. 321 00:16:58,700 --> 00:17:01,020 to understand the complex geology. 322 00:17:01,020 --> 00:17:01,260 It feared a tunnel boring to understand the complex geology. 323 00:17:01,260 --> 00:17:05,540 It feared a tunnel boring machine might get stuck. 324 00:17:05,540 --> 00:17:08,620 Snowy Hydro rejected that advice. 325 00:17:10,540 --> 00:17:14,620 I know from the talk in the industry and people I know and respect 326 00:17:14,620 --> 00:17:16,660 that SMEC had some pretty strong views 327 00:17:16,660 --> 00:17:19,740 that there wasn't enough information available 328 00:17:19,740 --> 00:17:24,900 on the geological integrity of the tunnel path, 329 00:17:24,900 --> 00:17:26,860 and there wasn't enough testing done 330 00:17:26,860 --> 00:17:30,900 to say anything solid about the costs. 331 00:17:30,900 --> 00:17:31,140 to say anything solid And if that's the case, 332 00:17:31,140 --> 00:17:33,100 And if that's the case, 333 00:17:33,100 --> 00:17:33,340 then they've been proved And if that's the case, 334 00:17:33,340 --> 00:17:35,180 then they've been proved exactly right, 335 00:17:35,180 --> 00:17:40,620 as evidenced by the tunnelling machine that is stuck. 336 00:17:44,420 --> 00:17:46,940 BARTLETT: Yes, they should have done more drilling. 337 00:17:48,460 --> 00:17:52,780 Whether it could ever have done sufficient drilling, I doubt, 338 00:17:52,780 --> 00:17:55,700 and I can understand that the engineers are saying, 339 00:17:55,700 --> 00:17:55,980 and I can understand that the engineers are saying, "We must have more geological information." 340 00:17:55,980 --> 00:17:57,860 "We must have more geological information." 341 00:17:57,860 --> 00:18:00,380 It's just reckless to proceed without that. 342 00:18:08,180 --> 00:18:11,060 Simon Bartlett is an energy industry veteran 343 00:18:11,060 --> 00:18:14,700 who helped plan Queensland's Wivenhoe pumped hydro scheme. 344 00:18:16,100 --> 00:18:21,660 For an underground scheme, the geology is absolutely critical. 345 00:18:21,660 --> 00:18:24,260 So you must understand the maximum possible 346 00:18:24,260 --> 00:18:26,300 of the rock conditions you're going through. 347 00:18:26,300 --> 00:18:31,140 So I'm told that SMEC was very worried about the geology 348 00:18:31,140 --> 00:18:35,420 and that they asked Snowy to do more drilling, and that was denied. 349 00:18:35,420 --> 00:18:35,660 As a project developer, and that they asked Snowy to do more drilling, and that was denied. 350 00:18:35,660 --> 00:18:37,300 As a project developer, 351 00:18:37,300 --> 00:18:39,580 you think about how you're gonna handle a risk. 352 00:18:39,580 --> 00:18:42,620 Do you do more work to understand the risk, 353 00:18:42,620 --> 00:18:42,900 Do you do more work to understand the risk, or do you allow contingencies in your project to handle that 354 00:18:42,900 --> 00:18:46,100 or do you allow contingencies in your project to handle that 355 00:18:46,100 --> 00:18:46,340 or do you allow contingencies if it occurs? 356 00:18:46,340 --> 00:18:47,700 if it occurs? 357 00:18:47,700 --> 00:18:49,820 And I'm sure at the time, 358 00:18:49,820 --> 00:18:50,060 there would have been a very And I'm sure at the time, 359 00:18:50,060 --> 00:18:53,060 there would have been a very balanced decision made to go, 360 00:18:53,060 --> 00:18:56,140 "No, we're not going to do more geotech. We've got advice. 361 00:18:56,140 --> 00:18:59,780 "We understand the advice, but we're gonna take a different decision." 362 00:19:05,780 --> 00:19:09,620 SMEC told Four Corners there will always be unknowns 363 00:19:09,620 --> 00:19:12,460 when undertaking complex tunnelling projects 364 00:19:12,460 --> 00:19:12,740 and ultimately, it was about weighing up the cost when undertaking complex tunnelling projects 365 00:19:12,740 --> 00:19:15,180 and ultimately, it was about weighing up the cost 366 00:19:15,180 --> 00:19:15,420 of more investigation work it was about weighing up the cost 367 00:19:15,420 --> 00:19:16,860 of more investigation work 368 00:19:16,860 --> 00:19:19,620 against the value of additional data. 369 00:19:24,220 --> 00:19:28,780 In late 2017, SMEC concluded Snowy 2.0 was feasible, 370 00:19:28,780 --> 00:19:33,340 but would cost between $3.8 and $4.5 billion. 371 00:19:34,460 --> 00:19:38,460 That was double the original $2 billion forecast. 372 00:19:42,700 --> 00:19:47,380 Now, that was obviously an estimate. 373 00:19:47,380 --> 00:19:50,740 You could call it a guesstimate, but it was very early. 374 00:19:50,740 --> 00:19:51,020 You could call it a guesstimate, but it was very early. How damaging was it that that figure was only damaging? 375 00:19:51,020 --> 00:19:53,580 How damaging was it that that figure was only damaging? 376 00:19:53,580 --> 00:19:57,340 It's only damaging because you keep harping on it, 377 00:19:57,340 --> 00:20:01,380 because there was no decision based on the $2 billion. 378 00:20:04,020 --> 00:20:07,180 The feasibility study predicted first power would be generated 379 00:20:07,180 --> 00:20:07,420 The feasibility study predicted in late 2024. 380 00:20:07,420 --> 00:20:09,060 in late 2024. 381 00:20:10,820 --> 00:20:12,460 Was it underdone? 382 00:20:12,460 --> 00:20:13,460 No. 383 00:20:13,460 --> 00:20:16,780 Well, I mean, no, it was a very thorough piece of work. 384 00:20:16,780 --> 00:20:19,460 And I think the economics of Snowy 2.0, 385 00:20:19,460 --> 00:20:24,620 even at the higher construction cost, is very, very sound, 386 00:20:24,620 --> 00:20:27,980 as the government has said, as Snowy Hydro said. 387 00:20:32,500 --> 00:20:34,500 REPORTER: Federal government's given the green light 388 00:20:34,500 --> 00:20:37,420 to the Renewable Energy Snowy 2.0 project. 389 00:20:39,300 --> 00:20:43,980 By this time Malcolm Turnbull had been removed as Prime Minister. 390 00:20:47,180 --> 00:20:51,300 It was now Scott Morrison's photo opportunity. 391 00:20:51,300 --> 00:20:53,900 (CAMERAS CLICKING) 392 00:20:53,900 --> 00:20:54,900 MAN: Lovely. This way? 393 00:20:54,900 --> 00:20:57,060 Yep. And just walk straight across. Thank you. 394 00:21:01,260 --> 00:21:03,300 This is what vision looks like. 395 00:21:03,300 --> 00:21:05,780 It doesn't get more fair dinkum than this. 396 00:21:05,780 --> 00:21:09,060 This is fair dinkum, 100%. 397 00:21:09,060 --> 00:21:10,740 This project stacks up. 398 00:21:10,740 --> 00:21:16,460 I mean, we absolutely scrutinised it thoroughly and with a microscope. 399 00:21:16,460 --> 00:21:16,740 The project chugged along, and it certainly had a lot I mean, we absolutely scrutinised it thoroughly and with a microscope. 400 00:21:16,740 --> 00:21:19,060 The project chugged along, and it certainly had a lot 401 00:21:19,060 --> 00:21:22,020 of political pressure, and the bureaucracy was pushing 402 00:21:22,020 --> 00:21:24,100 as hard as it could to get the project going. 403 00:21:28,780 --> 00:21:32,620 It would be Scott Morrison who gave the project its final approval. 404 00:21:36,100 --> 00:21:38,060 OK. Thumbs up for Snowy. 405 00:21:44,140 --> 00:21:46,540 Excellent. How good's butter chicken? 406 00:21:48,700 --> 00:21:52,180 Snowy 2.0 was now set to go. 407 00:21:55,820 --> 00:21:58,540 It's pretty clear that Snowy hadn't done 408 00:21:58,540 --> 00:22:03,740 the detailed geotechnical investigations to fully characterise 409 00:22:03,740 --> 00:22:03,980 the detailed geotechnical the very challenging 410 00:22:03,980 --> 00:22:05,740 the very challenging 411 00:22:05,740 --> 00:22:05,980 and changeable geologic the very challenging 412 00:22:05,980 --> 00:22:09,580 and changeable geologic conditions along the route. 413 00:22:21,340 --> 00:22:25,620 The project hinged on three giant tunnel-boring machines. 414 00:22:27,380 --> 00:22:30,660 They would excavate the tunnels connecting the two reservoirs 415 00:22:30,660 --> 00:22:30,900 They would excavate the tunnels and the power station. 416 00:22:30,900 --> 00:22:32,340 and the power station. 417 00:22:34,300 --> 00:22:37,020 One of the tunnel-boring machines was Florence. 418 00:22:39,420 --> 00:22:42,140 (UPBEAT CORPORATE ADVERTISING MUSIC) 419 00:22:46,820 --> 00:22:50,100 We have commissioned and celebrated our third TBM, Florence, 420 00:22:50,100 --> 00:22:52,620 with lots of community members watching on. 421 00:22:52,620 --> 00:22:55,220 You know, in life you dare to dream. 422 00:22:55,220 --> 00:22:55,460 You dare to think about the world You know, in life you dare to dream. 423 00:22:55,460 --> 00:22:58,820 You dare to think about the world as it might be, and you think 424 00:22:58,820 --> 00:23:01,940 about the kids and the world that they're going to inherit. 425 00:23:01,940 --> 00:23:05,180 The then-CEO claimed to have hired the world's best tunnellers 426 00:23:05,180 --> 00:23:10,220 as part of a joint venture known as Future Generation, or FG. 427 00:23:10,220 --> 00:23:13,700 We scoured the world to get the FG guys to come here and build this, 428 00:23:13,700 --> 00:23:17,460 build this incredibly complex engineering challenge. 429 00:23:19,660 --> 00:23:22,620 But trouble would lie ahead for Florence. 430 00:23:25,460 --> 00:23:29,940 Even before the first rock was cut, there was another warning. 431 00:23:33,820 --> 00:23:36,060 Four Corners has been told in the weeks 432 00:23:36,060 --> 00:23:37,780 before Florence was commissioned, 433 00:23:37,780 --> 00:23:38,020 workers drilled ahead to explore before Florence was commissioned, 434 00:23:38,020 --> 00:23:41,780 workers drilled ahead to explore the tunnel's planned route. 435 00:23:41,780 --> 00:23:46,380 At about 100m in, they hit soft ground and water that gushed 436 00:23:46,380 --> 00:23:46,620 At about 100m in, they hit soft thousands of litres. 437 00:23:46,620 --> 00:23:47,820 thousands of litres. 438 00:23:49,260 --> 00:23:51,940 They knew that it was going to be soft. 439 00:23:51,940 --> 00:23:54,820 They were expecting water in that section 440 00:23:54,820 --> 00:23:56,940 and so they know what's ahead of them. 441 00:23:56,940 --> 00:23:57,220 and so they know what's ahead of them. They drill regularly ahead of the TBMs so they know 442 00:23:57,220 --> 00:24:00,060 They drill regularly ahead of the TBMs so they know 443 00:24:00,060 --> 00:24:02,140 there shouldn't really be any surprises. 444 00:24:02,140 --> 00:24:04,660 It's pretty much consistent theme of the project. 445 00:24:04,660 --> 00:24:06,660 They tried to get the TBMs running. 446 00:24:06,660 --> 00:24:06,900 Cutting rock, tunnel activities They tried to get the TBMs running. 447 00:24:06,900 --> 00:24:09,780 Cutting rock, tunnel activities are the priority. 448 00:24:09,780 --> 00:24:12,060 Always have been since day one unfortunately. 449 00:24:12,060 --> 00:24:14,580 Had the cart before the horse a lot of the time. 450 00:24:16,460 --> 00:24:19,780 Dennis Barnes was not in charge when Florence was commissioned, 451 00:24:19,780 --> 00:24:22,700 but is now responsible for its progress. 452 00:24:26,620 --> 00:24:31,220 What I'm told is that a probe drill was put through before Florence 453 00:24:31,220 --> 00:24:33,780 was launched, and that you knew that there was water, 454 00:24:33,780 --> 00:24:36,740 you knew the ground was soft, but you launched it anyway. 455 00:24:36,740 --> 00:24:37,020 Yeah, we know that in parts of all of our tunnels, you knew the ground was soft, but you launched it anyway. 456 00:24:37,020 --> 00:24:40,260 Yeah, we know that in parts of all of our tunnels, 457 00:24:40,260 --> 00:24:43,380 we will find soft ground and we will find wet ground. 458 00:24:43,380 --> 00:24:43,660 we will find soft ground and we will find wet ground. The extent of that softness and wetness, you don't really know 459 00:24:43,660 --> 00:24:47,500 The extent of that softness and wetness, you don't really know 460 00:24:47,500 --> 00:24:48,500 until you push forward. 461 00:24:48,500 --> 00:24:49,980 So you did know the ground was soft. 462 00:24:49,980 --> 00:24:51,620 Oh, yeah. We knew that they were soft. 463 00:24:51,620 --> 00:24:52,620 We just didn't know it was that soft. 464 00:24:52,620 --> 00:24:56,340 So, sorry. You have said that it was unexpected soft ground. 465 00:24:56,340 --> 00:24:58,860 Now you're saying that it was softer than you thought? 466 00:24:58,860 --> 00:25:01,580 Yeah. Unexpected to that degree. 467 00:25:01,580 --> 00:25:01,820 I think it's just Yeah. Unexpected to that degree. 468 00:25:01,820 --> 00:25:04,420 I think it's just a convenient excuse, to be honest. 469 00:25:04,420 --> 00:25:07,100 They would have known exactly what was ahead of them. 470 00:25:07,100 --> 00:25:07,340 They would have known exactly And if they didn't, they should. 471 00:25:07,340 --> 00:25:09,260 And if they didn't, they should. 472 00:25:09,260 --> 00:25:09,500 Because if they're trying And if they didn't, they should. 473 00:25:09,500 --> 00:25:12,940 Because if they're trying to excavate ground that's unknown, 474 00:25:12,940 --> 00:25:15,460 they're putting our members and their workers' lives at risk, 475 00:25:15,460 --> 00:25:16,300 to be honest. 476 00:25:16,300 --> 00:25:18,380 They've got to know what's ahead of them. 477 00:25:21,500 --> 00:25:23,860 Around eight weeks after tunnelling began, 478 00:25:23,860 --> 00:25:27,660 Florence hit soft ground and was effectively stalled. 479 00:25:29,140 --> 00:25:31,900 Those working on the project have told Four Corners 480 00:25:31,900 --> 00:25:32,140 Those working on the project they'd push forward 50cm, 481 00:25:32,140 --> 00:25:34,380 they'd push forward 50cm, 482 00:25:34,380 --> 00:25:38,300 then spend the next week clearing out all the mud and water 483 00:25:38,300 --> 00:25:40,620 from around the tunnel-boring machine. 484 00:25:41,900 --> 00:25:45,420 We've obtained pictures showing the machine flooded with water. 485 00:25:48,780 --> 00:25:52,220 At the time, Snowy Hydro told the public nothing 486 00:25:52,220 --> 00:25:52,460 At the time, Snowy Hydro about these problems. 487 00:25:52,460 --> 00:25:53,740 about these problems. 488 00:25:55,700 --> 00:25:59,420 Rumours were permeating that, from the project, 489 00:25:59,420 --> 00:26:02,860 that the tunnel-boring machine was stuck. 490 00:26:02,860 --> 00:26:03,140 that the tunnel-boring machine was stuck. Snowy countered with a media release saying Florence was on the move. 491 00:26:03,140 --> 00:26:08,100 Snowy countered with a media release saying Florence was on the move. 492 00:26:08,100 --> 00:26:08,340 Snowy countered with a media release Just before Christmas, 493 00:26:08,340 --> 00:26:09,540 Just before Christmas, 494 00:26:09,540 --> 00:26:12,300 it said "a surface depression had emerged," 495 00:26:12,300 --> 00:26:12,540 it said "a surface depression but tunnelling was continuing safely. 496 00:26:12,540 --> 00:26:14,940 but tunnelling was continuing safely. 497 00:26:16,740 --> 00:26:20,100 Excavation at the headrace tunnel is being carried out by TBM Florence, 498 00:26:20,100 --> 00:26:20,380 Excavation at the headrace tunnel is being carried out by TBM Florence, which is progressing steadily through poor ground conditions. 499 00:26:20,380 --> 00:26:24,700 which is progressing steadily through poor ground conditions. 500 00:26:24,700 --> 00:26:26,140 I think it's pretty clear at this point 501 00:26:26,140 --> 00:26:29,060 that Snowy has misled the public on a number of occasions. 502 00:26:29,060 --> 00:26:31,860 They've given us reason to believe that things are on track 503 00:26:31,860 --> 00:26:35,100 when we later found out that they're not. 504 00:26:35,100 --> 00:26:37,140 So I've come for a bit of a walk to come and see what's happening 505 00:26:37,140 --> 00:26:42,060 up here at the top of the Snowy 2.0 scheme. 506 00:26:42,060 --> 00:26:45,540 One of the worst kept secrets in the country is that Florence 507 00:26:45,540 --> 00:26:46,540 is having a lot of trouble. 508 00:26:46,540 --> 00:26:49,860 Energy investor and climate activist Simon Holmes a Court 509 00:26:49,860 --> 00:26:52,780 was not convinced by the corporate spin. 510 00:26:52,780 --> 00:26:57,340 And in the background you can see behind me a hole has opened up, 511 00:26:57,340 --> 00:27:00,820 a sinkhole, if you like, caused by a cave-in 512 00:27:00,820 --> 00:27:03,340 where Florence has grabbed the material 513 00:27:03,340 --> 00:27:04,980 at the front of the machine, 514 00:27:04,980 --> 00:27:05,220 spattered out the back at the front of the machine, 515 00:27:05,220 --> 00:27:08,180 spattered out the back and caused a sinkhole above. 516 00:27:11,220 --> 00:27:15,140 Around the same time, Snowy finally acknowledged that Florence 517 00:27:15,140 --> 00:27:15,380 Around the same time, Snowy finally was not moving. 518 00:27:15,380 --> 00:27:17,060 was not moving. 519 00:27:17,060 --> 00:27:18,660 The TBM has been paused 520 00:27:18,660 --> 00:27:22,180 until about 10 to 15m of weak material in front of it 521 00:27:22,180 --> 00:27:22,420 until about 10 to 15m of is stabilised. 522 00:27:22,420 --> 00:27:24,180 is stabilised. 523 00:27:24,180 --> 00:27:26,780 It had only gone 150m. 524 00:27:29,380 --> 00:27:33,180 What do you think of the language? They said that Florence was paused. 525 00:27:34,220 --> 00:27:35,860 Well, you know, it's... 526 00:27:37,660 --> 00:27:41,100 I mean, well, it paused. 527 00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:41,340 I mean, like, it's just... I mean, well, it paused. 528 00:27:41,340 --> 00:27:46,180 I mean, like, it's just... it's...it's calculated 529 00:27:46,180 --> 00:27:50,740 to create the impression that it's not as serious a problem as it... 530 00:27:50,740 --> 00:27:50,980 to create the impression that it's ..as it obviously was. 531 00:27:50,980 --> 00:27:52,140 ..as it obviously was. 532 00:27:52,140 --> 00:27:56,580 So I've always taken the view that you build trust 533 00:27:56,580 --> 00:27:58,540 with truth and transparency. 534 00:27:58,540 --> 00:28:00,820 So you've got to tell the truth about what's going on, 535 00:28:00,820 --> 00:28:02,780 but you've got to be transparent about it. 536 00:28:02,780 --> 00:28:05,020 You can't expect people just to take your word for it. 537 00:28:05,020 --> 00:28:06,300 It's a bit like the ad on TV, right, 538 00:28:06,300 --> 00:28:09,500 where the four wheel drive's bogged in they're saying parked. 539 00:28:09,500 --> 00:28:09,740 where the four wheel drive's bogged It's not paused. It's bogged. 540 00:28:09,740 --> 00:28:11,140 It's not paused. It's bogged. 541 00:28:11,140 --> 00:28:12,540 You ain't going anywhere. 542 00:28:15,060 --> 00:28:21,380 The TBM number 3S1221 has a total length of 142m. 543 00:28:21,380 --> 00:28:24,340 We've learnt Florence's problems were made worse 544 00:28:24,340 --> 00:28:24,580 We've learnt Florence's because it lacked vital equipment. 545 00:28:24,580 --> 00:28:26,980 because it lacked vital equipment. 546 00:28:26,980 --> 00:28:29,380 Ground conditions are complex... 547 00:28:29,380 --> 00:28:33,260 To push through soft ground it needed what's known as a slurry system 548 00:28:33,260 --> 00:28:33,500 To push through soft ground it needed to help shore up the path ahead. 549 00:28:33,500 --> 00:28:35,740 to help shore up the path ahead. 550 00:28:35,740 --> 00:28:39,700 ..slurry piping system for safe material transfer. 551 00:28:39,700 --> 00:28:43,140 So was the actual slurry machine on site? 552 00:28:43,140 --> 00:28:46,340 The slurry machine was not on site and not available to be run 553 00:28:46,340 --> 00:28:46,580 The slurry machine was not on site in slurry mode. 554 00:28:46,580 --> 00:28:47,500 in slurry mode. 555 00:28:47,500 --> 00:28:47,740 The experts we have on the project, who have got experience in slurry mode. 556 00:28:47,740 --> 00:28:51,460 The experts we have on the project, who have got experience 557 00:28:51,460 --> 00:28:52,780 of tunnelling world wide, 558 00:28:52,780 --> 00:28:54,940 will have made a decision at the time 559 00:28:54,940 --> 00:28:55,180 will have made a decision at the time to operate in a particular mode, 560 00:28:55,180 --> 00:28:56,380 to operate in a particular mode, 561 00:28:56,380 --> 00:28:56,620 which obviously hasn't turned out to operate in a particular mode, 562 00:28:56,620 --> 00:28:59,660 which obviously hasn't turned out to have been the best decision. 563 00:28:59,660 --> 00:28:59,900 Clearly it's an oversight. which obviously hasn't turned out to have been the best decision. 564 00:28:59,900 --> 00:29:01,100 Clearly it's an oversight. 565 00:29:01,100 --> 00:29:02,460 If you're going... It's wrong. 566 00:29:02,460 --> 00:29:06,060 I mean, if you're going to be dealing with soft ground, 567 00:29:06,060 --> 00:29:06,340 I mean, if you're going to be dealing with soft ground, that needs to be slurried and you don't have the slurry kit, 568 00:29:06,340 --> 00:29:11,060 that needs to be slurried and you don't have the slurry kit, 569 00:29:11,060 --> 00:29:11,300 that needs to be slurried you've screwed up, haven't you? 570 00:29:11,300 --> 00:29:14,100 you've screwed up, haven't you? 571 00:29:14,100 --> 00:29:18,580 Four Corners has obtained a copy of a construction method statement, 572 00:29:18,580 --> 00:29:20,820 a guide for operating Florence. 573 00:29:20,820 --> 00:29:24,700 It recommended a slurry system be in place for early tunnelling, 574 00:29:24,700 --> 00:29:24,940 It recommended a slurry system subject to ground conditions. 575 00:29:24,940 --> 00:29:26,820 subject to ground conditions. 576 00:29:28,980 --> 00:29:31,180 Why was that not done? 577 00:29:31,180 --> 00:29:33,700 As you can imagine, on a project of this complexity, 578 00:29:33,700 --> 00:29:38,260 there would be thousands of pages of instructions and guidelines 579 00:29:38,260 --> 00:29:40,980 on how to address what we're trying to achieve. 580 00:29:40,980 --> 00:29:45,660 And of course, as you learn more and as you develop the project, 581 00:29:45,660 --> 00:29:45,900 And of course, as you learn that may change. 582 00:29:45,900 --> 00:29:47,060 that may change. 583 00:29:47,060 --> 00:29:48,300 That was before my time. 584 00:29:48,300 --> 00:29:51,300 So I'm not familiar with the decision on the day, 585 00:29:51,300 --> 00:29:51,540 So I'm not familiar with but as I understand it, 586 00:29:51,540 --> 00:29:53,780 but as I understand it, 587 00:29:53,780 --> 00:30:00,300 the machine was able to move forward with the perceived level of softness 588 00:30:00,300 --> 00:30:00,540 the machine was able to move forward that we had without slurry mode, 589 00:30:00,540 --> 00:30:02,460 that we had without slurry mode, 590 00:30:02,460 --> 00:30:04,940 and obviously that's proven to be incorrect. 591 00:30:06,420 --> 00:30:08,340 The contractor, Future Generation, 592 00:30:08,340 --> 00:30:11,500 said drilling in advance of the tunnel-boring machine 593 00:30:11,500 --> 00:30:14,740 confirmed its operation method was appropriate. 594 00:30:14,740 --> 00:30:18,340 It said every measure was taken to ensure the tunnel was excavated 595 00:30:18,340 --> 00:30:18,580 It said every measure was taken with diligence, care 596 00:30:18,580 --> 00:30:20,180 with diligence, care 597 00:30:20,180 --> 00:30:22,980 and in the safest possible working environment. 598 00:30:24,420 --> 00:30:25,820 Florence didn't sink. 599 00:30:25,820 --> 00:30:28,300 Florence was a little bit unstable, very briefly. 600 00:30:28,300 --> 00:30:31,460 How close did you go to losing that machine? 601 00:30:31,460 --> 00:30:32,220 Oh, relatively close. 602 00:30:32,220 --> 00:30:34,980 I mean, I'm not going to hide the fact that for a period there, 603 00:30:34,980 --> 00:30:35,220 I mean, I'm not going to hide it could have got worse. 604 00:30:35,220 --> 00:30:36,740 it could have got worse. 605 00:30:36,740 --> 00:30:38,900 But, absolutely, we've done the work now. 606 00:30:38,900 --> 00:30:41,580 We've stabilised the machine, we've stabilised the ground. 607 00:30:46,140 --> 00:30:49,700 Until now, the price tag for Florence's troubles 608 00:30:49,700 --> 00:30:51,500 hasn't been revealed. 609 00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:55,100 We've learnt the cost to the project is $2 billion, 610 00:30:55,100 --> 00:30:58,020 and this has been confirmed by Snowy Hydro. 611 00:31:00,460 --> 00:31:02,980 You can't live your life backwards, and mistakes happen, 612 00:31:02,980 --> 00:31:03,220 You can't live your life backwards, and that was an expensive one. 613 00:31:03,220 --> 00:31:04,340 and that was an expensive one. 614 00:31:04,340 --> 00:31:04,580 There's no question and that was an expensive one. 615 00:31:04,580 --> 00:31:07,540 There's no question that a significant 616 00:31:07,540 --> 00:31:12,340 but nowhere near a majority of this blow-out in cost 617 00:31:12,340 --> 00:31:17,740 is due to mistakes that were made by the contractor, 618 00:31:17,740 --> 00:31:21,140 or whoever was directing the contractor. 619 00:31:25,700 --> 00:31:27,460 Alrighty, here we go. 620 00:31:27,460 --> 00:31:30,380 Are you ready, sweetie? (LAUGHTER) 621 00:31:30,380 --> 00:31:32,060 Alright, I'm going to start. OK, one... 622 00:31:32,060 --> 00:31:32,300 Alright, I'm going to start. Ready? 623 00:31:32,300 --> 00:31:33,660 Ready? 624 00:31:33,660 --> 00:31:36,460 One, two, three. 625 00:31:36,460 --> 00:31:37,500 Go! 626 00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:37,740 Good girl. Go! 627 00:31:37,740 --> 00:31:39,660 Good girl. Good girl. 628 00:31:43,180 --> 00:31:46,740 The main construction contractor for Snowy 2.0 629 00:31:46,740 --> 00:31:49,180 also worked on the Airport Link tunnel in Perth, 630 00:31:49,180 --> 00:31:51,860 which suffered a number of serious incidents. 631 00:31:54,060 --> 00:31:56,300 CALLINAN: I met with the Snowy Hydro executives 632 00:31:56,300 --> 00:31:59,420 long before the contract was awarded and suggested 633 00:31:59,420 --> 00:32:02,860 they should do some research into the project in Perth 634 00:32:02,860 --> 00:32:03,140 they should do some research into the project in Perth and have a look at their performance before they even considered them. 635 00:32:03,140 --> 00:32:06,060 and have a look at their performance before they even considered them. 636 00:32:06,060 --> 00:32:09,020 Regardless of the price they put in, they should have been considered 637 00:32:09,020 --> 00:32:09,260 Regardless of the price they put in, on their safety experience alone. 638 00:32:09,260 --> 00:32:11,540 on their safety experience alone. 639 00:32:13,340 --> 00:32:14,980 REPORTER: The 26-year-old man 640 00:32:14,980 --> 00:32:15,220 was doing maintenance work REPORTER: The 26-year-old man 641 00:32:15,220 --> 00:32:17,860 was doing maintenance work 20m underground 642 00:32:17,860 --> 00:32:21,100 when he was hit in the head by a flailing compressed air hose 643 00:32:21,100 --> 00:32:21,340 when he was hit in the head by that had disconnected from a pipe. 644 00:32:21,340 --> 00:32:23,580 that had disconnected from a pipe. 645 00:32:25,940 --> 00:32:28,620 (HORN HONKS) 646 00:32:28,620 --> 00:32:31,020 MAN: All his teeth were knocked out. 647 00:32:31,020 --> 00:32:34,820 From what I was told, nearly every bone in his face was broken. 648 00:32:34,820 --> 00:32:35,100 And the most damaging was to his head. From what I was told, nearly every bone in his face was broken. 649 00:32:35,100 --> 00:32:38,420 And the most damaging was to his head. 650 00:32:38,420 --> 00:32:38,660 And the most damaging So, it resulted in brain damage. 651 00:32:38,660 --> 00:32:41,660 So, it resulted in brain damage. 652 00:32:41,660 --> 00:32:41,900 So, it resulted in brain damage. So, that resulted into a brain bleed. 653 00:32:41,900 --> 00:32:44,180 So, that resulted into a brain bleed. 654 00:32:45,540 --> 00:32:49,140 Terry Butterworth says he only heard about his son's accident 655 00:32:49,140 --> 00:32:49,380 Terry Butterworth says he only via a friend. 656 00:32:49,380 --> 00:32:50,540 via a friend. 657 00:32:51,820 --> 00:32:54,300 There was no communication from the company whatsoever 658 00:32:54,300 --> 00:32:56,820 while we were in New Zealand, nothing. 659 00:32:56,820 --> 00:32:59,060 I strongly, yeah... 660 00:32:59,940 --> 00:33:02,260 I strongly emphasise that. 661 00:33:02,260 --> 00:33:06,940 There was no mention, no call, no anything from the company. 662 00:33:06,940 --> 00:33:10,460 They said that...they emphasised they tried to get hold of me. 663 00:33:10,460 --> 00:33:13,140 My response was what I've just told you. 664 00:33:13,140 --> 00:33:13,380 My response was what You know, didn't try very hard. 665 00:33:13,380 --> 00:33:15,620 You know, didn't try very hard. 666 00:33:15,620 --> 00:33:17,900 ALL: (CHANT) Shame, Salini, shame! 667 00:33:17,900 --> 00:33:18,140 Shame, Salini, shame! ALL: (CHANT) Shame, Salini, shame! 668 00:33:18,140 --> 00:33:21,380 Shame, Salini, shame! Shame, Salini, shame! 669 00:33:21,380 --> 00:33:25,020 Unions condemned the contractor over the safety incidents. 670 00:33:25,020 --> 00:33:28,100 MAN: Workers' rights are under attack! What do we do?! 671 00:33:28,100 --> 00:33:29,500 ALL: Stand up, fight back! 672 00:33:29,500 --> 00:33:33,100 WorkSafe WA issued three directions to stop work 673 00:33:33,100 --> 00:33:33,340 WorkSafe WA issued three directions and 22 improvement notices 674 00:33:33,340 --> 00:33:35,100 and 22 improvement notices 675 00:33:35,100 --> 00:33:35,340 during the tunnel's and 22 improvement notices 676 00:33:35,340 --> 00:33:37,820 during the tunnel's six-year construction period. 677 00:33:37,820 --> 00:33:38,060 during the tunnel's ..fight back! 678 00:33:38,060 --> 00:33:38,900 ..fight back! 679 00:33:38,900 --> 00:33:40,820 The rules are broken! Change the rules! 680 00:33:40,820 --> 00:33:45,940 The contractor, Salini Impregilo, has since been rebranded as Webuild. 681 00:33:45,940 --> 00:33:47,740 Change the rules! The rules are broken! 682 00:33:47,740 --> 00:33:47,980 Change the rules! Change the rules! 683 00:33:47,980 --> 00:33:48,820 Change the rules! 684 00:33:48,820 --> 00:33:53,380 Despite their problems in Perth, Webuild was hired for Snowy 2.0. 685 00:33:54,820 --> 00:33:57,660 So, I'm not going to comment on WeBuild globally 686 00:33:57,660 --> 00:33:57,900 So, I'm not going to comment or WeBuild in Perth. 687 00:33:57,900 --> 00:34:00,140 or WeBuild in Perth. 688 00:34:00,140 --> 00:34:05,100 What I can say is that we see competent people with good machines, 689 00:34:05,100 --> 00:34:05,380 What I can say is that we see competent people with good machines, and we've already drilled more than six kilometres. 690 00:34:05,380 --> 00:34:08,220 and we've already drilled more than six kilometres. 691 00:34:08,220 --> 00:34:10,980 Competence is not getting Florence stuck, is it? 692 00:34:10,980 --> 00:34:14,260 Well, Florence, as I said, you know, encountered some challenges. 693 00:34:14,260 --> 00:34:17,020 We absolutely have learnt some things 694 00:34:17,020 --> 00:34:17,260 We absolutely have both as Snowy and as WeBuild. 695 00:34:17,260 --> 00:34:18,740 both as Snowy and as WeBuild. 696 00:34:18,740 --> 00:34:22,380 And I have confidence that when she restarts, 697 00:34:22,380 --> 00:34:22,620 And I have confidence they'll move along at pace. 698 00:34:22,620 --> 00:34:24,540 they'll move along at pace. 699 00:34:33,300 --> 00:34:37,300 The original Snowy Scheme is a proud part of Australia's history. 700 00:34:37,300 --> 00:34:40,380 We played a key part in the original Snowy scheme 701 00:34:40,380 --> 00:34:43,020 and we were all very excited about Snowy 2.0. 702 00:34:50,060 --> 00:34:55,180 The AWU now has more than 300 members at Snowy 2.0, 703 00:34:55,180 --> 00:34:58,220 doing everything from digging tunnels to working in the kitchens. 704 00:34:59,660 --> 00:35:02,660 Our multiculturalism is all attributed back 705 00:35:02,660 --> 00:35:03,660 to these mountains, 706 00:35:03,660 --> 00:35:07,020 but this project won't be remembered with the same the same fondness 707 00:35:07,020 --> 00:35:07,260 but this project won't be remembered for the workers here. 708 00:35:07,260 --> 00:35:08,340 for the workers here. 709 00:35:09,780 --> 00:35:13,100 Safety is one of the union's biggest concerns. 710 00:35:14,820 --> 00:35:18,420 We've obtained this footage showing toxic gas filling the tunnel 711 00:35:18,420 --> 00:35:20,140 where Florence is stuck. 712 00:35:20,140 --> 00:35:22,060 It was the start of night shift, 713 00:35:22,060 --> 00:35:24,900 and workers were trying to reinforce the ground ahead. 714 00:35:29,460 --> 00:35:32,860 My understanding is that the gas was a result of a chemical reaction 715 00:35:32,860 --> 00:35:33,140 with some products they were putting into the grout My understanding is that the gas was a result of a chemical reaction 716 00:35:33,140 --> 00:35:35,700 with some products they were putting into the grout 717 00:35:35,700 --> 00:35:38,140 to try and stabilise the ground around Florence. 718 00:35:38,140 --> 00:35:41,220 That chemical reaction released the gas. 719 00:35:41,220 --> 00:35:46,220 Our organiser contacted the safety management on the Saturday night 720 00:35:46,220 --> 00:35:46,500 Our organiser contacted the safety management on the Saturday night and was told that it wasn't a hazardous substance. 721 00:35:46,500 --> 00:35:49,180 and was told that it wasn't a hazardous substance. 722 00:35:49,180 --> 00:35:49,420 and was told that it wasn't Turns out it was. 723 00:35:49,420 --> 00:35:50,380 Turns out it was. 724 00:35:52,660 --> 00:35:57,140 SafeWork New South Wales said the gas posed a serious imminent risk 725 00:35:57,140 --> 00:35:57,380 SafeWork New South Wales said to workers' health. 726 00:35:57,380 --> 00:35:59,020 to workers' health. 727 00:35:59,020 --> 00:35:59,260 It added there were inadequate to workers' health. 728 00:35:59,260 --> 00:36:02,700 It added there were inadequate measures implemented 729 00:36:02,700 --> 00:36:05,420 to prevent exposure to a harmful substance. 730 00:36:08,740 --> 00:36:12,260 The tunnel was evacuated. Very hazardous situation. 731 00:36:12,260 --> 00:36:14,780 The work was stopped in that area for a week. 732 00:36:14,780 --> 00:36:17,500 I think it's one of the only times where we've actually had a proper 733 00:36:17,500 --> 00:36:18,540 emergency that I'm aware of, 734 00:36:18,540 --> 00:36:20,380 where the tunnel had to be evacuated. 735 00:36:20,380 --> 00:36:23,180 So, that's still obviously under investigation 736 00:36:23,180 --> 00:36:23,420 So, that's still obviously because it's reasonably recent. 737 00:36:23,420 --> 00:36:24,980 because it's reasonably recent. 738 00:36:24,980 --> 00:36:25,220 So, we don't know what the causes because it's reasonably recent. 739 00:36:25,220 --> 00:36:28,620 So, we don't know what the causes of that leak would have been. 740 00:36:28,620 --> 00:36:28,860 So, we don't know what the causes Appropriate action taken. 741 00:36:28,860 --> 00:36:30,060 Appropriate action taken. 742 00:36:30,060 --> 00:36:35,620 Stop work, think about what is the risk, close the plant down. 743 00:36:35,620 --> 00:36:37,900 So, very supportive that that action was taken. 744 00:36:37,900 --> 00:36:38,140 So, very supportive that You say appropriate action was taken, 745 00:36:38,140 --> 00:36:39,340 You say appropriate action was taken, 746 00:36:39,340 --> 00:36:42,140 it took 10 days to shut the project down. 747 00:36:42,140 --> 00:36:45,140 Again, I'm not familiar with that one in the detail, 748 00:36:45,140 --> 00:36:46,820 because the investigation is still ongoing. 749 00:36:49,100 --> 00:36:52,820 We've asked the New South Wales regulator how many safety breaches 750 00:36:52,820 --> 00:36:55,180 there have been at Snowy 2.0. 751 00:36:55,180 --> 00:36:57,380 It refused to provide the numbers, 752 00:36:57,380 --> 00:37:00,260 saying it may affect the contractor's reputation. 753 00:37:12,260 --> 00:37:14,500 Generation operations. Mark speaking. 754 00:37:17,780 --> 00:37:22,060 This is where Snowy Hydro monitors its existing network, 755 00:37:22,060 --> 00:37:24,300 weather data and prices. 756 00:37:30,940 --> 00:37:34,100 DENNIS BARNES: So, it's really the nerve centre of Snowy Hydro. 757 00:37:34,100 --> 00:37:37,980 Snowy is one of the biggest generators in the market, 758 00:37:37,980 --> 00:37:41,140 has some of the most flexible and dispatchable plant. 759 00:37:41,140 --> 00:37:44,620 So, we're often there when other generators are not there. 760 00:37:44,620 --> 00:37:47,820 So, we, in some ways, balance the market. 761 00:37:49,420 --> 00:37:52,580 The electricity currently generated by Snowy Hydro 762 00:37:52,580 --> 00:37:55,740 feeds into the grid via existing transmission lines. 763 00:37:58,980 --> 00:38:02,540 But Snowy 2.0 will need far more. 764 00:38:02,540 --> 00:38:06,660 A vast new network would cut through prime farmland. 765 00:38:06,660 --> 00:38:09,220 It's yet another problem for the project. 766 00:38:10,780 --> 00:38:13,940 BARTLETT: I spent half my career as the chief operating officer 767 00:38:13,940 --> 00:38:14,220 of power in Queensland, so I know a lot about transmission. BARTLETT: I spent half my career as the chief operating officer 768 00:38:14,220 --> 00:38:16,540 of power in Queensland, so I know a lot about transmission. 769 00:38:16,540 --> 00:38:21,140 I know the anxiety it can cause people who are affected 770 00:38:21,140 --> 00:38:23,860 by this...proposals to build this on their property. 771 00:38:23,860 --> 00:38:24,100 by this...proposals to build this on their property. (HORNS HONK INCESSANTLY) 772 00:38:24,100 --> 00:38:27,700 (HORNS HONK INCESSANTLY) 773 00:38:27,700 --> 00:38:29,940 MAN: (OVER LOUDHAILER) No towers! 774 00:38:29,940 --> 00:38:31,420 Protect our land! 775 00:38:31,420 --> 00:38:34,140 No towers! Protect our land! 776 00:38:34,140 --> 00:38:37,420 (HORNS HONK) 777 00:38:37,420 --> 00:38:40,980 Strong community opposition to giant new transmission lines 778 00:38:40,980 --> 00:38:43,700 could mean more delays for Snowy 2.0. 779 00:38:48,740 --> 00:38:53,220 (MAGPIE WARBLES) 780 00:39:00,940 --> 00:39:04,500 The transmission network will slice through this family farm 781 00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:06,700 in the New South Wales Southern Tablelands. 782 00:39:10,540 --> 00:39:16,860 WOMAN: So, we're impacted with 3.1km of transmission line. 783 00:39:16,860 --> 00:39:20,700 Eight towers. They're 75m high. 784 00:39:23,620 --> 00:39:25,340 I'm just gutted. 785 00:39:25,340 --> 00:39:27,780 It's soul destroying 786 00:39:27,780 --> 00:39:31,780 because we have put in so much work, 787 00:39:31,780 --> 00:39:35,140 love and care to our land care. 788 00:39:35,140 --> 00:39:38,500 Those group of trees will be wiped out. 789 00:39:38,500 --> 00:39:38,740 Those group of trees The 70m easement will clear them. 790 00:39:38,740 --> 00:39:41,740 The 70m easement will clear them. 791 00:39:41,740 --> 00:39:43,940 Oh, this wind! 792 00:39:44,820 --> 00:39:45,940 Not good. 793 00:39:47,540 --> 00:39:50,860 Well, we're replanting native plant stocks and trees 794 00:39:50,860 --> 00:39:51,100 Well, we're replanting that have been here originally. 795 00:39:51,100 --> 00:39:53,540 that have been here originally. 796 00:39:53,540 --> 00:39:56,980 And we're quite proud to be able to care for land. 797 00:40:01,420 --> 00:40:03,660 Uh, that's the one I want. 798 00:40:03,660 --> 00:40:07,940 Nan Betts fears the planned transmission lines for Snowy 2.0 799 00:40:07,940 --> 00:40:11,180 will undo the work she's put into regeneration. 800 00:40:15,380 --> 00:40:18,660 It makes me feel anxious for the next generation. 801 00:40:19,820 --> 00:40:21,260 I just feel ashamed. 802 00:40:22,660 --> 00:40:28,340 Progress without care of...foresight. 803 00:40:28,340 --> 00:40:28,580 Progress without care of...foresight. They just had no foresight, no. 804 00:40:28,580 --> 00:40:31,340 They just had no foresight, no. 805 00:40:31,340 --> 00:40:34,460 And I know they're all anxious to get power, 806 00:40:34,460 --> 00:40:34,700 And I know they're all anxious but there are other ways. 807 00:40:34,700 --> 00:40:36,940 but there are other ways. 808 00:40:38,940 --> 00:40:43,220 We're not against renewables, and we have, 809 00:40:43,220 --> 00:40:47,740 as landholders, have said, we have to look at other options 810 00:40:47,740 --> 00:40:53,860 because we're carrying the brunt of the extreme distances 811 00:40:53,860 --> 00:40:58,460 to connect Snowy 2.0 to city populations. 812 00:40:59,900 --> 00:41:04,660 If it's coming through, please listen to us 813 00:41:04,660 --> 00:41:06,900 because we are part of this solution. 814 00:41:06,900 --> 00:41:12,220 Please put it underground, as our best compromise. 815 00:41:12,220 --> 00:41:15,180 Nobody wants it. Nobody's asked for it. 816 00:41:16,540 --> 00:41:18,740 But this is the best compromise. 817 00:41:24,980 --> 00:41:27,220 The New South Wales Government has ruled out 818 00:41:27,220 --> 00:41:31,060 putting the powerlines underground, claiming it's too expensive. 819 00:41:45,460 --> 00:41:49,980 There's plenty riding on Snowy 2.0 and the promise to keep the lights on 820 00:41:49,980 --> 00:41:52,940 as Australia moves away from fossil fuels. 821 00:41:57,700 --> 00:42:01,980 We need a huge amount of long-duration storage. 822 00:42:01,980 --> 00:42:05,500 No-one in their right mind argues with that, you know, 823 00:42:05,500 --> 00:42:07,380 other than the people that want to keep burning coal, of course. 824 00:42:09,540 --> 00:42:14,260 Snowy 2.0 is really the only opportunity 825 00:42:14,260 --> 00:42:18,540 to have a storage of that scale in Australia. 826 00:42:18,540 --> 00:42:20,900 What's your response to Malcolm Turnbull saying 827 00:42:20,900 --> 00:42:21,140 What's your response to we need the deep storage? 828 00:42:21,140 --> 00:42:23,380 we need the deep storage? 829 00:42:23,380 --> 00:42:25,900 He just has it wrong. 830 00:42:25,900 --> 00:42:29,380 He's possibly been misled, hasn't thought it through. 831 00:42:31,300 --> 00:42:36,860 You don't need deep storage when you have other options. 832 00:42:36,860 --> 00:42:38,580 So, you need energy storage, 833 00:42:38,580 --> 00:42:41,620 but there are much better ways for energy storage nowadays. 834 00:42:41,620 --> 00:42:44,500 Batteries - they're making large-scale batteries 835 00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:48,060 that can store electricity for eight hours. 836 00:42:48,060 --> 00:42:50,860 It's way cheaper, but you think about it. 837 00:42:50,860 --> 00:42:54,420 You can deliver batteries in about two to three years, 838 00:42:54,420 --> 00:42:54,660 You can deliver batteries not 15, 20 years. 839 00:42:54,660 --> 00:42:55,900 not 15, 20 years. 840 00:42:55,900 --> 00:42:56,140 You don't have not 15, 20 years. 841 00:42:56,140 --> 00:42:58,060 You don't have any construction risks 842 00:42:58,060 --> 00:42:58,300 You don't have like what we're confronting here. 843 00:42:58,300 --> 00:43:00,700 like what we're confronting here. 844 00:43:00,700 --> 00:43:03,300 Much more environmentally... 845 00:43:03,300 --> 00:43:05,300 None of this environmental damage. 846 00:43:09,220 --> 00:43:13,020 The challenges ahead for Snowy 2.0 are immense. 847 00:43:14,860 --> 00:43:17,740 Florence is still not moving, 848 00:43:17,740 --> 00:43:22,460 awaiting New South Wales Government approval to fix the sinkhole. 849 00:43:22,460 --> 00:43:22,700 awaiting New South Wales Government And there are still many unknowns. 850 00:43:22,700 --> 00:43:25,340 And there are still many unknowns. 851 00:43:29,060 --> 00:43:32,300 What are the ground conditions like ahead of Florence? 852 00:43:32,300 --> 00:43:34,820 They're going to encounter these poor conditions 853 00:43:34,820 --> 00:43:36,420 again and again and again. 854 00:43:36,420 --> 00:43:36,660 Those places where again and again and again. 855 00:43:36,660 --> 00:43:39,340 Those places where it's similar and worse, 856 00:43:39,340 --> 00:43:41,660 I think there's quite a high likelihood 857 00:43:41,660 --> 00:43:44,180 that we're going to see the same thing happen again. 858 00:43:44,180 --> 00:43:48,220 We're operating in quite a geologically diverse area, 859 00:43:48,220 --> 00:43:51,140 probably the most diverse in Australia. 860 00:43:51,140 --> 00:43:55,100 But that's why we've got some of the best contractors in the world. 861 00:43:55,100 --> 00:43:57,620 A lot of the equipment is ready for that. 862 00:43:57,620 --> 00:43:59,980 But that's the one thing that you would say 863 00:43:59,980 --> 00:44:02,500 is a risk to the project going forward. 864 00:44:02,500 --> 00:44:06,980 Snowy Hydro has, I believe, misled the public on many occasions 865 00:44:06,980 --> 00:44:10,740 with this project, and it's a bit much to ask the public 866 00:44:10,740 --> 00:44:10,980 with this project, and to trust everything at face value. 867 00:44:10,980 --> 00:44:14,500 to trust everything at face value. 868 00:44:14,500 --> 00:44:16,980 Now, that might be fair or might be unfair, 869 00:44:16,980 --> 00:44:20,980 but what we really need to trust these deadlines and costs 870 00:44:20,980 --> 00:44:25,420 is an independent expert to come in and monitor the project 871 00:44:25,420 --> 00:44:28,540 on an ongoing basis, to tell us that it's both on track 872 00:44:28,540 --> 00:44:32,020 and on budget, and that the contract is being executed properly. 873 00:44:41,020 --> 00:44:43,020 Captions by Red Bee Media 874 00:44:43,020 --> 00:44:45,220 Copyright Australian Broadcasting Corporation