(THEME MUSIC PLAYS)
JOHN LYONS: For five months now
have been bombarded by images
our screens have been bombarded by images
depicting Israel's air and ground assault on Gaza.
This extraordinary footage air and ground assault on Gaza.
This extraordinary footage
the destruction has been.
shows just how widespread the destruction has been.
Israel is still denying foreign journalists
Israel is still denying independent access to Gaza.
We're in Israel independent access to Gaza.
We're in Israel about a kilometre from the border.
Generations of historians will study this Gaza war,
the violence of Hamas's October 7 attack
and the unparalleled ferocity of Israel's retaliation,
which left tens of thousands of Palestinians dead
and vast sections of Gaza reduced to rubble.
One thing they'll focus on will be Israel's response. and vast sections of Gaza reduced to rubble.
One thing they'll focus on will be Israel's response.
Was it proportionate? will be Israel's response.
Was it proportionate?
Or was it driven by rage, humiliation and revenge?
Was it legitimate self-defence?
Or did it involve the commission of war crimes,
as Israel's detractors around the world have alleged?
And would the war
jolt the international community into pushing for something
that Israel's leadership had for so long resisted -
a Palestinian state?
In this Four Corners
we go head to head with insiders
at the centre of Israel's defence we go head to head with insiders
at the centre of Israel's defence and intelligence establishment,
at the centre of Israel's defence a former prime minister...
Let's start.
..two ex-intelligence chiefs,
a current cabinet minister
and a one-time Israeli army commander.
We challenged them about one of the most controversial wars...
Are you ready?
..in modern times.
Why has the most powerful army in the Middle East, Israel,
killed so many children?
Do you think that revenge has become a major factor in Israel's response?
Do you think that revenge has become No.
Can Hamas be destroyed?
Hamas as a military organisation Can Hamas be destroyed?
Hamas as a military organisation will be destroyed.
Hamas as a military organisation They hate us!
We saw the results.
The idea of eradicating Hamas completely from Gaza
is a just cause.
I don't think that anyone made a deliberate decision
I don't think that anyone to kill children.
YEHUDA SHAUL: That the IDF is doing everything
to avoid civilian casualties
is a blunt lie.
Straight lie.
(CRIES)
Gaza was already one of the most desperate places on Earth.
Gaza was already one of the most (SCREAMS)
Now it's uninhabitable, plagued by mass starvation and disease.
When I look at it, Israel is committing a series of war crimes.
When I look at it, Israel is (EXPLOSION)
Some warned that Israel's fierce response to October 7 (EXPLOSION)
Some warned that Israel's fierce response to October 7
will have sown seeds of hatred for generations to come.
Is there a way out
of what's beginning to look like The Forever War?
October 7 was the deadliest day in Israel's history.
AVI DICHTER: Saturday morning, it was about 6 o'clock I woke up.
I got to prepare myself to go to the beach to swim.
I got to prepare myself About 20 minutes later
I heard noises of Iron Dome rockets
far away.
(ROCKETS WHOOSH)
As someone who lives in Ashkelon,
I'm familiar with the noises As someone who lives in Ashkelon,
I'm familiar with the noises of rockets of Iron Dome.
I'm familiar with the noises It was very odd
because Iron Dome before a siren, it's a never happened before.
because Iron Dome before a siren, (ROCKETS WHOOSH)
AMI AYALON: (ROCKETS WHOOSH)
AMI AYALON: I got a telephone call from my son.
He asked me what is the code
in order to open the safe here in in my home. He asked me what is the code
in order to open the safe here in in my home.
I said, "Why do you need the code?"
And he said he need his gun because his gun is in our safe.
And he said he need his gun He then said, "There is a war."
And I said, "What?!"
(GUNSHOTS)
YEHUDA SHAUL: I was watching all the horrible videos
YEHUDA SHAUL: I was watching coming out from the south and...
And I became physically sick.
The level of dehumanisation, the brutality...
..yeah, was just beyond belief. the brutality...
..yeah, was just beyond belief.
(INDISTINCT YELLING)
(GUNSHOTS) (WOMAN SCREAMS)
(GUNFIRE) (CRIES)
What went wrong?
Everything.
Literally everything.
EHUD BARAK: It became clear that
that's the worst failure of our intelligence and operational forces
since the establishment of the state of Israel. that's the worst failure of our intelligence and operational forces
since the establishment of the state of Israel.
Israel is at war.
ABDALJAWAD OMAR: From the beginning of the first moment, I knew that
such a big event will also bring a ferocious Israel ABDALJAWAD OMAR: From the beginning of the first moment, I knew that
such a big event will also bring a ferocious Israel
and a ferocious Israeli response.
They've made a mistake of historic proportions.
They've made a mistake They will get cemeteries.
That's what Hamas is going to get.
I'm telling you, the tunnels that... That's what Hamas is going to get.
I'm telling you, the tunnels that... They dug tunnels -
I'm telling you, they dug the biggest cemetery in the world.
YEHUDA SHAUL: You know, at the beginning I was also full of rage.
YEHUDA SHAUL: You know, at the (EXPLOSIONS)
I also had the feeling that, you know...
.."These are animals.
"We need to go there and bomb the hell out of them."
"We need to go there (EXPLOSION)
But then you stop for a second and you think
But then you stop for a second and you say to yourself,
"What did we think is gonna happen
"after...
"..16 years of siege?"
AMIRA HASS: I was surprised and not surprised
AMIRA HASS: because I kept warning
that people cannot stand the accumulated cruelty
accumulated over so many decades,
and somehow it will... there will be an explosion,
somehow there will be an outburst. and somehow it will... there will be an explosion,
somehow there will be an outburst.
I couldn't imagine what it would be,
I couldn't imagine but, uh...but there it came.
The occupied Palestinian territory
is made up of three parts -
is made up Gaza, the West Bank
and East Jerusalem.
Gaza, under Israeli blockade
since the militant group Hamas
seized power in 2007,
and the West Bank,
run by the moderate and the West Bank,
run by the moderate Palestinian Authority,
although more than 700,000 Israeli settlers also now live there
although more than 700,000 protected by Israeli soldiers.
The architecture of occupation is brutalist.
Palestinians require permits to enter or leave the West Bank.
There are scores of fixed checkpoints, pop-up checkpoints,
internal checkpoints, occasional checkpoints, roadblocks,
earth mounds, road gates, walls, fortified barriers and trenches.
More than 600 physical obstacles
and about 100 different permits in total,
and about 100 different permits and everywhere
Big Brother surveillance cameras
armed with face-recognition Big Brother surveillance cameras
armed with face-recognition technologies.
Israel says it's for security.
19-year-old Israeli soldiers Israel says it's for security.
19-year-old Israeli soldiers in the West Bank
19-year-old Israeli soldiers wield absolute power.
Even if they kill an innocent Palestinian,
they'll rarely face serious consequences.
This is Qalandia checkpoint,
the main checkpoint between Jerusalem that way
and Ramallah in the West Bank that way.
Now, a place like this shows the tyranny of occupation.
Now, a place like this We've just seen a Palestinian man
come down here and try to go through that gate.
And that security person behind me, he said no to him.
He wouldn't let him. And they closed the gate.
Now, that Palestinian may have to walk now two or three hours
all the way around there
just to get through that gate,
which they've just decided to reopen.
It's the complete unpredictability. It's the tyranny.
It's these concrete enforcers of occupation.
This is part of what grinds down Palestinians,
is that they never know at the checkpoint
is that they never know what soldier, what police officer
is going to let them through what soldier, what police officer
is going to let them through or not let them through.
You've spent a lot of time studying this, obviously...
OK. ..as head of Shin Bet.
Could you describe what is the reality for Palestinians here?
Could you describe what is A life of people
who dream about...
..freedom,
and don't see it.
Whether we like it or not, we control the life of millions.
If you were a Palestinian living in the West Bank or Gaza,
If you were a Palestinian what would your view be of Israel?
I would fight against Israel in order to achieve my liberty.
How would you fight? How dirty?
I would do everything in order to achieve my liberty. And that's it.
I would do everything in order to (HUBBUB)
ABDALJAWAD OMAR: Life for us (HUBBUB)
ABDALJAWAD OMAR: Life for us is struggling not to drown.
It's basically continuing on survival mode all the time.
It's to have your life
being determined by an other people -
being determined what type of economy you have,
who you can fall in love with and live with,
the ability of somebody else to humiliate you on a daily basis
the ability of somebody else just passing through a checkpoint.
(INDISTINCT YELLING)
We sometimes feel like we live in this field of targets.
I've seen personally when an Israeli sniper hit one of my friends
and high fived his buddy that he got the target.
and high fived his buddy Life under occupation is basically
being expected to normalise with the abnormal.
What's it like having a gun pointed at you?
What's it like It's... It's totally abnormal.
It's not civilised, to say the least.
If I want to take my kids over the weekend to visit their grandma,
who lives 40 minutes away from Ramallah,
who lives 40 minutes away we have to pass two checkpoints.
We have to stop, get checked
with the soldiers pointing the guns at the back seat
where my kids, you know, are terrified,
and they start to ask questions.
Any moment the Israelis may come
and declare that your land is state land,
and declare that your land so, you cannot reach it,
and then see an Israeli settlement so, you cannot reach it,
and then see an Israeli settlement being built there,
your piece of land, the trees that your grandfather planted.
You are not allowed to connect, for example, to the water system,
while a nearby Israeli outpost
immediately drowns in greenery.
If life in the West Bank was difficult,
If life in the West Bank daily life in Gaza was worse.
Israel's siege condemned Gaza's 2.3 million Palestinians
to slow suffocation
in what many describe as the world's largest open-air prison.
(INDISTINCT YELLING) in what many describe as the world's largest open-air prison.
(INDISTINCT YELLING)
Every so often, Gaza would erupt
with public protest Every so often, Gaza would erupt
with public protest or barrages of rockets,
and Israel would come down even harder.
DALAL IRIQAT: Can you imagine that 2.3 million civilians in Gaza
were deprived from enjoying the basic right
were deprived of having clean water, electricity?
Four hours of electricity a day?
Internet services. Best-case scenario - 2G services?
Internet services. Just because Israel wants that?
ABDALJAWAD OMAR: What was the choice of Palestinians before October 7?
No legal respite, no diplomatic resolution,
no horizon for a two-state solution or one-state solution,
no efficacy for non-violence action.
(WIND GUSTS)
Is there a certain rationale to Israel's security argument?
Is there a certain rationale I don't think it's rational.
(CAR HORN BEEPS, TRAFFIC DRONES)
If we provide those people with normal basic human rights,
why would they resort to anything else?
As long as Israel continues to occupy the Palestinians
As long as Israel continues and deprive them and suffocate them,
they should not expect but for more violence.
Look, I once was asked some 30 years ago
what I have been doing if I were a Palestinian,
what I have been doing and 30 years ago
I was new enough in politics
to tell the truth
that if I were born Palestinian
I probably would have joined one of the terror organisations.
Believe me, I fully understand
there are things that are painful for the other side,
and if you look at them isolated from the rest of the picture,
they sound terrible.
Israel is living genuinely in a very tough neighbourhood.
I once compared it to a villa in the jungle.
Inside your villa
you can enjoy, you know, classical music or your jacuzzi.
Once you step...the first step you go out of your door,
you have to be ready to pull the trigger within a split of a second
otherwise you would not survive.
The real challenge, when we look at it from a wider perspective,
is you cannot avoid human pain and damage along such conflict,
but you can think honestly about how to solve it
but you can think honestly rather to dig deeper into the hole.
The rampage by Hamas on October 7 shook Israelis to their core.
Within hours Israel was bombing Gaza.
(EXPLOSIONS)
EHUD BARAK: It was clear from day one
that we will have to deploy
tens of thousands of pairs of boots on the ground.
tens of thousands of pairs of boots (GUNSHOTS)
Once the order was given to the army, then they are doing it well.
(EXPLOSION)
But there are significant achievements,
even in developing tactics along the way
to fight with the tunnels
that were much more developed kind of system
that were much more developed than we assessed at the beginning.
Since October more than 30,000 Gazans have been killed,
two-thirds of them women and children.
Why did Israel need to kill so many people in Gaza?
Why did Israel need to kill We never target civilians.
You may not be targeting them,
but they're dying in their tens of thousands.
Because they live... or those that control their life
Because they live... are these terrorists
that are exploiting their existence.
Israel is dropping the bombs.
We have no other alternative.
I try to avoid these casualties,
and I can't.
I was in the Israeli security cabinet
and I know how the Israeli army is working
and I know how the Israeli army and is targeting in accordance,
every target is getting the approval and is targeting in accordance,
every target is getting the approval of the Justice Ministry.
And if the army can prove that this is a legitimate target,
it is.
(EXPLOSION)
AVI DICHTER: Gaza strip - it's 350 square kilometres.
AVI DICHTER: Gaza strip - That's it.
All in all, That's it.
All in all, there are about 40,000 terrorists,
All in all, paid as terrorists,
trained as terrorists.
You have to take into account the surrounding of those terrorists,
it's many, many thousands,
tens of thousands of terrorists.
Mr Ayalon, tens of thousands of terrorists.
Mr Ayalon, one thing I don't understand
is why does the most powerful military in the Middle East, Israel,
backed by the most powerful military the world's ever seen,
backed by the most powerful military the United States,
need to kill so many children.
We don't need to.
But you are.
There was no war like this ever fought.
There was no war like this (EXPLOSION)
When we fight Hamas...
(ROCKET WHOOSHES)
(EXPLOSION)
..it is the most populated battlefield ever fought
in the history of wars...
(EXPLOSION)
..and, in order to achieve our military goals,
..and, in order to achieve we have to hit military targets.
But in a populated area in which we are fighting in Gaza, we have to hit military targets.
But in a populated area in which we are fighting in Gaza,
it is almost impossible to hit a military target
without killing or hitting civilians.
Hamas deliberately are using civil targets, civilian targets -
Hamas deliberately are using schools, hospitals,
UN institutions -
in order to place
military targets
in civilians' institutions,
and even according in civilians' institutions,
and even according to international law
we have the right to hit the military installation
we have the right to hit if it is used deliberately.
So, Hamas is doing everything
in order for us to kill or to use So, Hamas is doing everything
in order for us to kill or to use their people as a human shield.
in order for us to kill or to use I don't think that anyone
made a deliberate decision to kill children.
I'm not saying it was a deliberate decision.
I'm asking why did the most powerful army kill so many children?
Look... No, I want to describe it in a different way.
So, Israel called upon the population
to leave the area So, Israel called upon the population
to leave the area
for some two or three weeks repeatedly.
YEHUDA SHAUL: That we are told that the IDF
is doing everything to avoid civilian casualties
is doing everything is a blunt lie.
Straight lie.
It's a hard statement to say about my own army,
but it's the truth.
Yehuda Shaul, a former Israeli army commander,
says Israeli military strategy
has been driven for the past 15 years
by a doctrine of deterrence through disproportionate destruction.
Theoretically, it's possible to bomb thousands of legitimate targets.
What matters is the devil is in the details.
We don't have enough evidence
coming from soldiers coming out of Gaza in this war yet,
coming from soldiers but we know from past operations,
from before October 7,
in terms of how from before October 7,
in terms of how the IDF fights in Gaza.
We are told that every target we strike
is a legitimate target under international humanitarian law,
and it's based on, you know...
..clear-cut, you know, double-checked,
..clear-cut, you know, verified intelligence.
And when we strike, verified intelligence.
And when we strike, we do it in a surgical manner,
in a way... while taking all precautions
in a way... to avoid, you know...to minimise
the civilian collateral damage and casualties, yeah?
But that is not the case.
Then the question is proportionality.
But what about a house of a militant?
A target that was very common in many operations before in Gaza.
2-, 3-, 4-, 5-, 6-storey building that you will wipe out
with a half one-tonne bomb
just because on the second floor, the flat to the left,
just because on the second floor, a Hamas militant lives.
(EXPLOSION)
There's no way this is a legitimate target under IHL.
I have no doubt that after October 7, yeah,
they've loosened some of the restrains, some of the restrictions
they've loosened some of the they had from previous wars.
What exactly? they had from previous wars.
What exactly? We don't really know yet.
But all what you need, for example...
..is to decide
that the amount of civilians you're allowed to take out for each strike
that the amount of civilians you're goes higher than before,
and you lower the rank of a Hamas operative
that you're allowed to strike.
So, if before, let's say,
for a company officer in Hamas,
you were allowed to take out five civilians,
hypothetically speaking...
..and now, in this war, for every rank-and-file guy in Hamas,
you're allowed to take out, ie, to kill,
15 civilians...
..you know, a move like this can explain a lot of what we see.
Was there a viable alternative to all this, to the scale of the killing?
Israel's famous for its targeted assassinations.
I mean, you yourself dressed as a woman, famously,
and went into Beirut and met up with Mossad
and went and killed a Palestinian leader.
Israel's done that over the years.
Why couldn't they have tried to strategically target Hamas leaders
rather than kill those thousands of children?
rather than kill I never deluded myself
to believe that by killing any I never deluded myself
to believe that by killing any individual, you solve the problem.
You give them a blow, and they will recover, in a way.
You give them a blow, It just delay the real decision.
Real decisions at the end
are not about how to kill mosquitoes more effectively,
are not about how to kill mosquitoes it's about how to drain the swamp.
You've worked for Mossad.
Probably no other country on Earth
can target its enemies as successfully.
can target its enemies Against terror, yes.
Mossad has been into Dubai...
Yes. ..as you know,
and they have killed and targeted Hamas leaders.
They can do it in Beirut.
Yeah. They can do it in Beirut.
Yeah. They can do it in Dubai.
Yeah. Wouldn't an alternative
to thousands and thousands of women and children being killed...
They are hiding amongst these civilians now.
You asked is there an alternative? So, what is...
Wouldn't an alternative be to get the Hamas leadership
who were behind this whole plan, like Yahya Sinwar,
and to have done to him
what Mossad and Israel has done to other Hamas leaders over the years
what Mossad and Israel has done to and not kill thousands of civilians?
It's not just about one leader, and not kill thousands of civilians?
It's not just about one leader,
it's about this organisation
that his vision or ideology
is to kill Israelis, is to kill Jews.
This is where we are standing.
And, unfortunately, they turned it into a regime.
This is Benjamin Netanyahu's war,
Israel's longest-serving prime minister.
Israel's Throughout his career
Netanyahu has tried to kill the idea of a Palestinian state.
Do you trust Benjamin Netanyahu?
Never.
(LAUGHS)
Can there be peace while Benjamin Netanyahu is the leader here?
Can there be peace while Benjamin Uh... No.
No.
Can the world trust No.
Can the world trust Benjamin Netanyahu?
I don't think that anyone can trust him. Can the world trust Benjamin Netanyahu?
I don't think that anyone can trust him.
Basically, he lies to everyone, and no-one trusts him.
(LIVELY MUSIC PLAYS)
Just over a year ago
he managed to cobble together
the most right-wing coalition Israel's ever seen.
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
Netanyahu awarded senior cabinet portfolios to two extremists -
Bezalel Smotrich, now the Finance Minister,
and Itamar Ben-Gvir,
Minister of National Security.
(INDISTINCT YELLING) Minister of National Security.
(INDISTINCT YELLING)
Both ministers live in illegal settlements.
(INDISTINCT YELLING)
Ben-Gvir has criminal convictions
for racist incitement and supporting Ben-Gvir has criminal convictions
for racist incitement and supporting a Zionist terrorist group.
He's been condemned by the US and the EU for using racist rhetoric.
He's been condemned by the US (SPEAKS IN HEBREW)
Smotrich denies the very existence of the Palestinian people.
(INDISTINCT YELLING)
These two men are now accused of driving Netanyahu's Gaza policy,
pushing the agenda that would force Palestinians off their lands.
I think Israel's agenda, the end goal, is to annex the land.
It doesn't take a genius to come up with that conclusion.
It doesn't take a genius Here's Israel in 1948...
You know, Netanyahu himself Here's Israel in 1948...
You know, Netanyahu himself went to the UN in September
and he showed that map from the river to the sea.
..surrounded by a hostile Arab world.
What does that mean to anybody? ..surrounded by a hostile Arab world.
What does that mean to anybody?
He doesn't see Palestine.
He doesn't see Palestinians.
The whole Middle East changes.
Ben-Gvir and Smotrich, the two racists,
Ben-Gvir and Smotrich, are messianic guys
that seems to be...
..to have a very strong leverage on Bibi.
They want to turn it into a major religious war
They want to turn it between Israel and the Islam.
Are they dangerous?
Sure. Sure they are dangerous.
How powerful are Ben-Gvir and Smotrich?
And what do you think of them?
I see them as terrorists And what do you think of them?
I see them as terrorists
and as Jewish messianics.
They represent only a small minority within the Israeli society,
but they get their power because of, um...our coalition system.
but they get their power because But can I just check something?
Are you calling the Minister for National Security
and the Minister for Finance in Israel...
..are you calling them terrorists?
Of course.
They are.
Is the brutal reality
that Benjamin Netanyahu Is the brutal reality
that Benjamin Netanyahu wants to continue this war
that Benjamin Netanyahu for his own political survival?
Look, I cannot penetrate his soul and tell you for sure,
Look, I cannot penetrate his soul but it's clear
that he acts as if
the main objective of this whole event that he acts as if
the main objective of this whole event
is his survival.
(SPEAKS IN HEBREW)
He understands that if fighting will have a pause
for six weeks or two times six weeks,
the Israeli public will demand accountability,
the Israeli public in spite of the fact that
there is no word in Hebrew for accountability.
It was not needed in our culture.
But the public will demand it,
and he might lose his role as the Prime Minister.
The Prime Minister's office did not respond
The Prime Minister's office when we put these allegations to him.
(SPEAKS IN HEBREW)
Mr Ben-Gvir and Mr Smotrich (SPEAKS IN HEBREW)
Mr Ben-Gvir and Mr Smotrich also failed to respond.
It now appears that Netanyahu wanted to sow seeds of division
between the hardliners who ruled Gaza
and the more conciliatory Palestinian Authority running the West Bank.
AMI AYALON: We did something very, very simple.
We did everything
in order to make sure that Hamas will go on controlling Gaza
and Palestinian Authority will control the West Bank
so they will fight each other.
Netanyahu allowed Qatar to give massive amounts of cash
Netanyahu allowed Qatar to Hamas in Gaza.
So, what we did with the permission of our prime minister
is to let Qatar to transfer a huge amount of money in cash,
is to let Qatar to transfer probably more than $1.4 billion,
and to make sure
that they will be able to send, and to make sure
that they will be able to send, you know, people to work in Israel
and to achieve or to get intelligence if they need.
By doing it, we increase the power of Hamas.
By doing it, That served Netanyahu,
who wanted to avoid any discussion That served Netanyahu,
who wanted to avoid any discussion of a two-state solution.
So, are you saying Benjamin Netanyahu deliberately boosted Hamas
to try to prevent a Palestinian state?
Yeah, sure.
He deliberately and systematically, even told on record -
"Whoever wants to avoid the threat of a two-state solution
"has to support my policy of paying protection money to the Hamas."
Netanyahu maintains
the Qatar money was to avoid a humanitarian catastrophe.
the Qatar money was to avoid Having helped to build up Hamas,
Netanyahu has now vowed to destroy it.
He fed the beast,
and it exploded in our face.
If you base your national-security strategy solely on force, and it exploded in our face.
If you base your national-security strategy solely on force,
then you need to win 24-7 forever.
Is it possible that Hamas CAN be destroyed?
I don't believe you can destroy Hamas with military force alone.
I don't believe you can destroy The issue is this, OK?
If you want...
..to destroy Hamas
in Gaza,
what you will have to do
is forcibly displace more than what you will have to do
is forcibly displace more than two million Palestinians into Sinai.
is forcibly displace more than Go house by house, corner by corner.
Wipe out entire Gaza above ground.
And then go for months underground, tunnel by tunnel.
Yeah?
Suffer hundreds of casualties, if not thousands, ultimately.
And maybe after a few years there won't be Hamas in Gaza.
But if you've done THAT...
..there's going to be Hamas everywhere else.
..there's going to be Hamas Can Hamas be destroyed?
Hamas as a military organisation Can Hamas be destroyed?
Hamas as a military organisation will be destroyed.
We are in a war in Gaza.
We put two main goals in front of the military
and in front of the security organisations.
First, to destroy all military infrastructure
First, to destroy of Hamas and PIJ in Gaza Strip.
And the second goal - to topple the regime of Hamas
from continuing ruling and running the Gaza Strip.
from continuing ruling and running These were the two main goals,
and the main target was to release all hostages
at that time we knew that were taken into the Gaza Strip.
So, they can hide in tunnels.
We shall find them there.
They can hide in houses. We shall find them there.
It's not going to be stopped
up until we are going to destroy the military infrastructure of both
up until we are going to destroy in Gaza Strip.
How long do you think Israel's war in Gaza Strip.
How long do you think Israel's war against Hamas will last?
How long do you think Israel's war How long it will take?
It may take a year or two.
We stand with Israel.
And we will make sure it has what it needs to take care of its citizens,
defend itself and respond to this attack.
What would happen if President Biden said,
"Thousands and thousands of civilians have been killed in Gaza,
"the bombing's indiscriminate,
"as of tomorrow I'm cutting off the supply of bombs"?
"as of tomorrow The war would end.
That would be the end of this war.
Israel cannot wage it without these bombs.
The role of the US has been, as usual,
full-fledged support for Israel,
backing in the Security Council,
supply of arms,
total complicity and responsibility
for all of Israel's behaviour
and the bombing that is indiscriminate,
as the President said,
and at the same time
a bit of public finger-wagging.
(GRAND MILITARY MUSIC PLAYS)
Since 1946
the US has provided
more than $200 billion in military aid to Israel.
In the 1967 Six-Day War
Israel's then newly appointed defence minister, Moshe Dayan,
took personal command of Israeli forces
as they captured East Jerusalem.
(BELL TOLLS)
(BIRDS TWITTER)
(PRAYER OVER PA SYSTEM)
Moshe Dayan once said,
"Our American friends offer us money, arms and advice.
"We take the money, we take the arms,
"but we decline the advice."
Those words have echoed down through the decades.
Those words have echoed Now, an emboldened Israel
has flattened vast sections of Gaza Now, an emboldened Israel
has flattened vast sections of Gaza with American bombs,
declining the softly spoken advice
of President Biden.
The State of Israel was born to be of President Biden.
The State of Israel was born to be a safe place for the Jewish people.
President Biden is a lifelong supporter of Israel.
I've long said if Israel didn't exist, we'd have to invent it.
The supporters of Israel in America, of course, would say,
"Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.
"It's in our strategic interests to support it."
"It's in our strategic interests Is that a fair argument?
Well, I don't know of any democracy
that for more than half a century
has deprived millions of the people under its control
has deprived millions of the people of basic civil rights
based on their inborn of basic civil rights
based on their inborn characteristics.
based on their inborn That is the case here in Israel,
and I don't think it's defensible
under any definition of democracy
to call this place a democracy.
EHUD BARAK: Israel cannot fight this regional war
without having close relationship with the Americans.
without having close relationship We need their support,
not just in munitions that we do not produce in enough pace
to supply the needs of such a regional war,
but we need them also to protect us in the UN Security Council.
We needed them at the beginning of the crisis
We needed them to deter Iran from getting involved
or from activating Hezbollah against us.
And we will need them even in The Hague
And we will need them to block the prospect
that Israeli commanders or even political leaders
might find themselves at a criminal court in The Hague
might find themselves or demanded to be brought.
Only America can help us to avoid all this.
Pro-Israeli lobby groups in the US wield immense power.
NATHAN THRALL: Every politician in the United States knows
that they can pay a major price with their jobs
that they can pay a major price for not toeing the line,
and the level
of devastation that we are seeing now
of devastation has so horrified the world
and has so horrified the American public
that now we have half of the people who voted for Biden
saying that Israel is perpetrating a genocide in Gaza.
JOE BIDEN: Israel also has a fundamental responsibility
to protect innocent civilians in Gaza.
to protect innocent civilians (APPLAUSE)
And now for Biden, for the very first time,
there is talk that an American president
could lose an election over being too pro-Israel.
could lose an election It's unheard of.
And, so, we have this enormous American hypocrisy It's unheard of.
And, so, we have this enormous American hypocrisy
of supplying the bombs this enormous American hypocrisy
of supplying the bombs
are being used indiscriminately
that we say are being used indiscriminately
and expressing sympathy are being used indiscriminately
and expressing sympathy
for the people who are being killed by our bombs.
American criticism has intensified,
with Washington repeatedly expressing frustration
at the impact of the war on civilians,
but the bombing has continued.
If it's found later that war crimes were committed by Israel,
is the United States complicit in those war crimes?
100%.
As the US continues to supply Israel with munitions,
As the US continues it's now dropping food aid to Gazans
amid warnings that hunger has reached catastrophic levels.
(INDISTINCT YELLING)
Children are already (INDISTINCT YELLING)
Children are already dying of starvation,
Children are already and the UN says famine is imminent.
(INDISTINCT YELLING)
(PRAYER OVER PA SYSTEM)
AMIRA HASS: There is this country
and there are two peoples who live in it,
and this country belongs to the two peoples.
But any plan to expel or to get rid of one of the two peoples
will result in even more disasters. But any plan to expel or to get rid of one of the two peoples
will result in even more disasters.
I feel that now,
when this genocidal war
is still going on in Gaza and against Gaza,
my first thing that I say is there must be a ceasefire.
On what do you base the word 'genocide'?
I'd say genocidal. Genocidal?
I'd say genocidal. Why do you use the word 'genocidal'?
Because the enormity of the killing, the enormity of the wounded,
the enormity of the destruction,
the enormity of the fear
that each person, including so many of my friends,
pass every moment of their life now for almost five months,
the enormity of it is genocidal.
Genocides start
with something very, very clear -
the intention with something very, very clear -
the intention to kill a race or a people.
the intention We do not have this intention.
That's it.
So, it is not genocide.
It is not a genocide intent.
We are facing a major threat
and we are fighting against a threat.
We are doing many mistakes,
but it is far from being genocide
or far from being a genocide intent.
That's it.
The International Court of Justice
opened hearings on allegations
that Israel opened hearings on allegations
that Israel was committing genocide in Gaza.
that Israel The acts and omissions by Israel...
In a preliminary ruling
the court said it was plausible
that Israel's acts the court said it was plausible
that Israel's acts could amount to genocide.
The ICJ ordered restraint. that Israel's acts could amount to genocide.
The ICJ ordered restraint.
Another international court is investigating possible war crimes
Another international court by both Hamas and Israel.
I'm so tired of the legal terms for things and legal definitions,
and I know that for years, you know,
Palestinians used to say genocide about almost everything,
Palestinians used to say genocide and I opposed it.
When you kill so many families and I opposed it.
When you kill so many families in one bomb
and when you destroy so many families,
you don't have any chain... no...no...no...
..no chain, no memories left for the family
and no chain of descendants for this family.
You destroy culture. You destroy academics.
You destroy schools. You destroy clinics.
I mean, the reconstruction will take...
I mean, the reconstruction ..decades.
Decades.
Some members of Hamas have said clearly
that, "We will try more October 7s."
They're committed to wiping out Israel.
They're committed What can Israel do to protect itself?
I think the answer is very simple.
They need to end the Israeli military occupation,
they need to grant the Palestinians back their rights,
they need to grant and they need to recognise
that the Palestinians have a right and they need to recognise
that the Palestinians have a right to self-determination, to freedom,
to sovereignty, to independence, to liberation,
to sovereignty, to independence, to being equally humans.
Do you now fear for the future?
Um...
I am worried.
Uh... I am worried about the future of Israel.
Uh... I am worried Uh... Yes. More than ever.
You cannot deter Uh... Yes. More than ever.
You cannot deter a person or a group of people
if they believe that they have nothing to lose.
if they believe We Israelis, we shall have security
only when THEY will have hope.
What's the future for Palestinians?
Supporting death will not bring you anything.
Supporting death If you don't believe
that the Jewish presence here
between the Mediterranean and Jordan Valley
is forever,
you are going to lose more than you've lost till now.
ABDALJAWAD OMAR: We're in a very bleak, very dark moment
ABDALJAWAD OMAR: We're in in our own history.
But, at the same time, I always think
that from the depths of despair, from the depths of this darkness,
that from the depths of despair, we can always see some light.
And perhaps there is some hope
that we can reconfigure life in the Holy Land
in a way that treats people equally,
treats people with the humanity that they deserve.
(TRADITIONAL JEWISH SINGING)
It's often said that this conflict is impossibly complicated,
now even more so after the atrocities of October 7
now even more so and the horrors of its aftermath.
Trust is broken and and the horrors of its aftermath.
Trust is broken and animosities are greater than ever.
But when you really listen to both sides,
their aspirations have not changed.
The essence is this -
Israelis want security,
Palestinians Israelis want security,
Palestinians want an independent state.
If Israel agreed to end its occupation
and Palestinians guaranteed Israeli security,
then this most intractable of all conflicts could end.
Right now it feels like we're light years away from that.
Right now it feels like But if something doesn't give,
then the horrors of October 7
and the death and devastation in Gaza then the horrors of October 7
and the death and devastation in Gaza that followed
are unlikely to be the darkest place to which this conflict sinks.
(THEME MUSIC PLAYS)
Captions by Red Bee Media
Copyright Australian Broadcasting Corporation