1 00:00:00,980 --> 00:00:03,020 (THEME MUSIC PLAYS) 2 00:00:14,940 --> 00:00:18,820 GRACE TOBIN: Well, David, you're often described as a whistleblower. 3 00:00:18,820 --> 00:00:19,060 GRACE TOBIN: Well, David, you're often described as a whistleblower. Some people also say you're a hero. 4 00:00:19,060 --> 00:00:21,340 Some people also say you're a hero. 5 00:00:21,340 --> 00:00:24,820 (CHEERING, WHISTLES BLOW) Thank you, everybody! 6 00:00:24,820 --> 00:00:25,060 (CHEERING, WHISTLES BLOW) (CHEERING, WHISTLES BLOW) 7 00:00:25,060 --> 00:00:26,140 (CHEERING, WHISTLES BLOW) 8 00:00:26,140 --> 00:00:27,820 SUPPORTER: (ON MIC) Thank you, David. 9 00:00:27,820 --> 00:00:30,340 The Australian public is much richer for his contribution. 10 00:00:32,300 --> 00:00:35,940 Then there are those who say you're a traitor. 11 00:00:35,940 --> 00:00:36,180 Then there are those How do you view yourself? 12 00:00:36,180 --> 00:00:38,940 How do you view yourself? 13 00:00:40,100 --> 00:00:43,220 I view myself as a soldier who did his job, 14 00:00:43,220 --> 00:00:43,460 I view myself and that's really what I am. 15 00:00:43,460 --> 00:00:45,300 and that's really what I am. 16 00:00:45,300 --> 00:00:47,820 Obviously, I like being called a hero, 17 00:00:47,820 --> 00:00:49,860 it kind of helps when you're in a jail cell. 18 00:00:49,860 --> 00:00:50,100 it kind of helps (LAUGHS) 19 00:00:50,100 --> 00:00:52,500 (LAUGHS) 20 00:00:52,500 --> 00:00:54,220 Makes you feel a bit better! 21 00:00:57,260 --> 00:01:01,540 David McBride is a former military lawyer who blew the whistle. 22 00:01:01,540 --> 00:01:04,860 Today I serve my country. 23 00:01:04,860 --> 00:01:08,300 (CHEERING) 24 00:01:09,260 --> 00:01:13,260 He's celebrated for exposing war crimes in Afghanistan. 25 00:01:14,220 --> 00:01:17,300 And what's David McBride's crime? 26 00:01:17,300 --> 00:01:20,500 His crime is telling the truth about war crimes! 27 00:01:20,500 --> 00:01:23,020 (CHEERING) 28 00:01:23,020 --> 00:01:26,860 But the truth is that wasn't his intention. 29 00:01:26,860 --> 00:01:29,300 DAN OAKES: It was entirely the opposite. 30 00:01:29,300 --> 00:01:31,540 David McBride wanted to expose 31 00:01:31,540 --> 00:01:33,900 that our soldiers were being unfairly targeted, 32 00:01:33,900 --> 00:01:36,460 they were being unfairly investigated. 33 00:01:36,460 --> 00:01:39,940 It's a much greyer and murkier and messier story 34 00:01:39,940 --> 00:01:41,620 than people appreciate. 35 00:01:41,620 --> 00:01:45,820 Are you just someone who broke the law and got caught? 36 00:01:45,820 --> 00:01:50,100 (SCOFFS) I didn't sell the plans to the Chinese. 37 00:01:50,100 --> 00:01:50,340 (SCOFFS) I didn't sell the plans It wasn't robbing a bank. 38 00:01:50,340 --> 00:01:51,860 It wasn't robbing a bank. 39 00:01:51,860 --> 00:01:52,100 I say I saw the government It wasn't robbing a bank. 40 00:01:52,100 --> 00:01:56,980 I say I saw the government breaking the law. 41 00:01:59,340 --> 00:02:02,940 With his criminal trial shrouded in secrecy. 42 00:02:02,940 --> 00:02:03,180 With his criminal trial No camera! Go away! 43 00:02:03,180 --> 00:02:04,780 No camera! Go away! 44 00:02:04,780 --> 00:02:05,020 Oi! Go away! No camera! Go away! 45 00:02:05,020 --> 00:02:07,020 Oi! Go away! SECURITY: Sir, you need to go back. 46 00:02:07,020 --> 00:02:07,260 Oi! Go away! You need to go back. 47 00:02:07,260 --> 00:02:08,900 You need to go back. 48 00:02:08,900 --> 00:02:11,380 Right, so, they've just closed the court. 49 00:02:11,380 --> 00:02:13,020 Now there's a secret hearing 50 00:02:13,020 --> 00:02:13,260 Now there's taking place upstairs. 51 00:02:13,260 --> 00:02:14,820 taking place upstairs. 52 00:02:14,820 --> 00:02:17,300 MARK DAVIS: This is the power of the Attorney-General 53 00:02:17,300 --> 00:02:20,380 sitting in the middle of a courtroom 54 00:02:20,380 --> 00:02:20,620 ready to gag everybody sitting in the middle of a courtroom 55 00:02:20,620 --> 00:02:23,100 ready to gag everybody in a heartbeat. 56 00:02:23,100 --> 00:02:29,220 We go inside David McBride's high-stakes battle for vindication 57 00:02:29,220 --> 00:02:32,580 and ask what is he really fighting for? 58 00:02:32,580 --> 00:02:35,620 DAVID MCBRIDE: I believe I am still fighting for Australia. 59 00:02:35,620 --> 00:02:37,500 My enemies would say the same thing, 60 00:02:37,500 --> 00:02:39,980 but I believe I'm right and I believe they're wrong. 61 00:02:39,980 --> 00:02:43,580 And I'm still putting my life on the line for this country, 62 00:02:43,580 --> 00:02:43,820 And I'm still putting my life just as my oath told me to do. 63 00:02:43,820 --> 00:02:45,540 just as my oath told me to do. 64 00:02:59,940 --> 00:03:01,900 Time for one more coffee? 65 00:03:06,220 --> 00:03:08,420 It's a little routine... 66 00:03:09,300 --> 00:03:11,140 ..having a coffee. 67 00:03:12,100 --> 00:03:13,140 Charger. 68 00:03:15,140 --> 00:03:18,740 It's the week before David McBride's criminal trial. 69 00:03:18,740 --> 00:03:18,980 It's the week before Doggie treats. 70 00:03:18,980 --> 00:03:20,300 Doggie treats. 71 00:03:21,260 --> 00:03:23,300 Might as well have one before we go. 72 00:03:24,380 --> 00:03:26,860 Reality is hitting home. 73 00:03:28,820 --> 00:03:31,940 I'm not allowed to take Jake into prison. 74 00:03:31,940 --> 00:03:35,300 I'm trying to find someone who can do it. 75 00:03:36,380 --> 00:03:38,140 Messages from well-wishers. 76 00:03:38,140 --> 00:03:40,020 Sometimes I'm too anxious to read them. 77 00:03:40,020 --> 00:03:44,340 It's easier to read hate mail than it is praise. 78 00:03:45,300 --> 00:03:46,820 On social media 79 00:03:46,820 --> 00:03:50,780 McBride is crowdfunding for his legal defence. 80 00:03:52,100 --> 00:03:55,900 I'm asking for support from everyday Australians 81 00:03:55,900 --> 00:03:56,140 I'm asking for support to give a small amount 82 00:03:56,140 --> 00:03:58,420 to give a small amount 83 00:03:58,420 --> 00:04:00,100 within your capacity 84 00:04:00,100 --> 00:04:02,060 to help my campaign. 85 00:04:04,780 --> 00:04:08,140 Do you know how much money you've raised over the last few years? 86 00:04:08,140 --> 00:04:11,100 Approximately, but it must be around half a million bucks. 87 00:04:19,580 --> 00:04:21,820 Important paperwork, Jake. 88 00:04:21,820 --> 00:04:24,340 Must remember to take that. 89 00:04:24,340 --> 00:04:28,660 McBride's bail documents list five federal offences. 90 00:04:28,660 --> 00:04:30,180 He's playing hide-and-seek! 91 00:04:30,180 --> 00:04:33,420 He's charged with giving secret documents to journalists 92 00:04:33,420 --> 00:04:36,940 when he was a lawyer for the Australian Defence Force. 93 00:04:38,340 --> 00:04:40,700 It's got the offences on it too. 94 00:04:41,660 --> 00:04:44,940 Has it ever occurred to you to run or hide? 95 00:04:44,940 --> 00:04:47,180 Quite a few people say, "Why wouldn't you run? 96 00:04:47,180 --> 00:04:50,540 "I could, for 20 grand, get you powerful a jet ski, 97 00:04:50,540 --> 00:04:50,780 "I could, for 20 grand, "take off from Bondi. 98 00:04:50,780 --> 00:04:52,220 "take off from Bondi. 99 00:04:52,220 --> 00:04:55,740 "You'll meet a boat 20 kilometres out, 100 00:04:55,740 --> 00:04:58,220 "and you'll get on the boat and they'll take you..." 101 00:04:58,220 --> 00:04:58,460 "and you'll get on the boat (LAUGHS) 102 00:04:58,460 --> 00:04:59,380 (LAUGHS) 103 00:04:59,380 --> 00:05:01,020 "..take you somewhere." 104 00:05:01,020 --> 00:05:03,940 I don't want to spend the rest of my life on the run, 105 00:05:03,940 --> 00:05:06,180 you know, disguised, like Tony Mokbel. 106 00:05:06,180 --> 00:05:09,220 But it's easy to talk tough when you're sitting in Paddington. 107 00:05:09,220 --> 00:05:13,020 See how you go inside of a 6-by-4 cell, you know? 108 00:05:15,940 --> 00:05:17,980 Oh, look at their faces. 109 00:05:17,980 --> 00:05:19,460 You're excited?! 110 00:05:19,460 --> 00:05:20,940 They're very excited. Excited? 111 00:05:20,940 --> 00:05:23,460 You know something's happening. Yes! 112 00:05:24,740 --> 00:05:27,620 Prison is front of mind for McBride. 113 00:05:29,060 --> 00:05:32,660 If convicted he faces years in jail. 114 00:05:32,660 --> 00:05:35,260 A little left and then right. 115 00:05:35,260 --> 00:05:39,260 It's a confronting thought for his daughters Georgie and James 116 00:05:39,260 --> 00:05:39,500 It's a confronting thought and ex-wife, Sarah, 117 00:05:39,500 --> 00:05:40,900 and ex-wife, Sarah, 118 00:05:40,900 --> 00:05:41,140 who's stood by him since and ex-wife, Sarah, 119 00:05:41,140 --> 00:05:44,660 who's stood by him since their separation eight years ago. 120 00:05:46,500 --> 00:05:47,980 It's unusual. 121 00:05:47,980 --> 00:05:49,780 It's a very unusual situation. 122 00:05:49,780 --> 00:05:51,100 But we're best of mates 123 00:05:51,100 --> 00:05:52,580 and when you believe in something 124 00:05:52,580 --> 00:05:52,820 and when you believe strong enough, 125 00:05:52,820 --> 00:05:54,220 strong enough, 126 00:05:54,220 --> 00:05:56,140 you'll keep fighting for it. 127 00:05:57,100 --> 00:05:59,300 I thought it might be a short cut. 128 00:05:59,300 --> 00:06:02,380 JAMES MCBRIDE: It's been so many years of our life. 129 00:06:02,380 --> 00:06:05,260 Most of my childhood had the case in it, 130 00:06:05,260 --> 00:06:08,140 and the fact we've been through all the hardships 131 00:06:08,140 --> 00:06:08,380 and the fact we've been through of what the case 132 00:06:08,380 --> 00:06:09,620 of what the case 133 00:06:09,620 --> 00:06:11,860 has done with everyone, 134 00:06:11,860 --> 00:06:13,220 and he'd still go to jail, 135 00:06:13,220 --> 00:06:15,180 it would be like a loss. 136 00:06:15,180 --> 00:06:15,420 it would be Yeah. 137 00:06:15,420 --> 00:06:16,660 Yeah. 138 00:06:24,580 --> 00:06:28,220 Legally, it's a difficult case to defend. 139 00:06:28,220 --> 00:06:31,260 McBride has already admitted to police 140 00:06:31,260 --> 00:06:35,820 that he broke the law by revealing national secrets. 141 00:06:35,820 --> 00:06:41,540 His entire defence now rests on proving it was the right thing to do. 142 00:06:44,380 --> 00:06:46,340 There would be no such thing as whistleblowers 143 00:06:46,340 --> 00:06:46,580 There would be no such thing if they get up on this, 144 00:06:46,580 --> 00:06:48,340 if they get up on this, 145 00:06:48,340 --> 00:06:48,580 'cause how could you be if they get up on this, 146 00:06:48,580 --> 00:06:50,380 'cause how could you be a whistleblower if... 147 00:06:50,380 --> 00:06:50,620 'cause how could you be MARK DAVIS: You'd be crucified. 148 00:06:50,620 --> 00:06:51,860 MARK DAVIS: You'd be crucified. 149 00:06:51,860 --> 00:06:55,340 Mark Davis is the lead solicitor on the case. 150 00:06:55,340 --> 00:06:59,420 We assume that it's known what it means, right? 151 00:06:59,420 --> 00:07:02,620 Here we are, eight lawyers, going, "What does 'duty' mean?" 152 00:07:02,620 --> 00:07:02,860 Here we are, eight lawyers, I mean, it's really bloody... 153 00:07:02,860 --> 00:07:04,180 I mean, it's really bloody... 154 00:07:04,180 --> 00:07:05,740 (LAUGHS) 155 00:07:05,740 --> 00:07:09,900 The case is being run under national security laws, 156 00:07:09,900 --> 00:07:11,900 which means there are heavy restrictions 157 00:07:11,900 --> 00:07:12,140 which means around the handling of evidence. 158 00:07:12,140 --> 00:07:14,580 around the handling of evidence. 159 00:07:14,580 --> 00:07:18,900 It's bullshit that, anything to do with national security, they use - 160 00:07:18,900 --> 00:07:21,300 and I know this 'cause I used to be inside the system - 161 00:07:21,300 --> 00:07:25,020 they use this as a weapon to make it harder for defendants. 162 00:07:25,980 --> 00:07:27,940 You guys will have to clear out 163 00:07:27,940 --> 00:07:28,180 because we're just gonna You guys will have to clear out 164 00:07:28,180 --> 00:07:30,420 because we're just gonna go through the documents, now, OK? 165 00:07:30,420 --> 00:07:33,660 And you just literally can't see them, that's all. 166 00:07:33,660 --> 00:07:35,580 See ya. See ya. 167 00:07:37,780 --> 00:07:40,820 (HELICOPTER ROTORS WHIRR) 168 00:07:53,740 --> 00:07:57,180 To understand how David McBride ended up here, 169 00:07:57,180 --> 00:08:01,740 we have to go back 11 years to the war in Afghanistan. 170 00:08:06,140 --> 00:08:11,380 McBride was on deployment as a lawyer with Australia's special forces. 171 00:08:12,820 --> 00:08:15,500 I loved my job at special forces. 172 00:08:15,500 --> 00:08:15,740 I thought it was the best job I loved my job at special forces. 173 00:08:15,740 --> 00:08:17,260 I thought it was the best job in the world. 174 00:08:20,460 --> 00:08:22,020 Rumours were escalating 175 00:08:22,020 --> 00:08:22,260 that war crimes were being Rumours were escalating 176 00:08:22,260 --> 00:08:26,540 that war crimes were being committed by members of the SAS. 177 00:08:28,340 --> 00:08:32,900 We now know from an independent inquiry called the Brereton Report 178 00:08:32,900 --> 00:08:33,140 We now know from an independent that there's credible information 179 00:08:33,140 --> 00:08:34,780 that there's credible information 180 00:08:34,780 --> 00:08:35,020 that 39 Afghans were unlawfully that there's credible information 181 00:08:35,020 --> 00:08:40,500 that 39 Afghans were unlawfully killed by 25 Australian soldiers. 182 00:08:41,740 --> 00:08:45,540 At the time, that wasn't McBride's main concern. 183 00:08:45,540 --> 00:08:45,780 At the time, that wasn't McBride's main concern. (GUNSHOTS) 184 00:08:45,780 --> 00:08:46,860 (GUNSHOTS) 185 00:08:46,860 --> 00:08:47,100 You were the legal officer (GUNSHOTS) 186 00:08:47,100 --> 00:08:51,140 You were the legal officer for the special forces. 187 00:08:51,140 --> 00:08:53,140 What rumours were you hearing at this time? 188 00:08:53,140 --> 00:08:57,220 Did you have a sense of those 39 murders yourself? 189 00:08:57,220 --> 00:08:57,460 Yeah, I heard the rumours, Did you have a sense of those 39 murders yourself? 190 00:08:57,460 --> 00:08:58,700 Yeah, I heard the rumours, 191 00:08:58,700 --> 00:08:58,940 but as a lawyer you don't pay Yeah, I heard the rumours, 192 00:08:58,940 --> 00:09:02,620 but as a lawyer you don't pay too much attention to the rumours. 193 00:09:02,620 --> 00:09:02,860 but as a lawyer you don't pay too much attention to the rumours. And they were my clients, 194 00:09:02,860 --> 00:09:04,140 And they were my clients, 195 00:09:04,140 --> 00:09:07,700 and, so, I went there with an open mind. 196 00:09:07,700 --> 00:09:09,140 I knew that soldiers weren't angels, 197 00:09:09,140 --> 00:09:11,660 particularly special forces soldiers, 198 00:09:11,660 --> 00:09:14,260 but I also didn't think that they were all devils. 199 00:09:19,380 --> 00:09:21,260 Back in 2013 200 00:09:21,260 --> 00:09:25,140 the ADF decided to reinforce the Rules of Engagement 201 00:09:25,140 --> 00:09:25,380 the ADF decided to reinforce to say soldiers can only shoot 202 00:09:25,380 --> 00:09:27,420 to say soldiers can only shoot 203 00:09:27,420 --> 00:09:31,980 if they have a high degree of confidence a person is a threat. 204 00:09:33,540 --> 00:09:35,540 I made a complaint about it to say 205 00:09:35,540 --> 00:09:37,420 this could get soldiers killed 206 00:09:37,420 --> 00:09:39,780 because it had, like, a seven-step test 207 00:09:39,780 --> 00:09:42,460 for a soldier in a firefight with a Taliban 208 00:09:42,460 --> 00:09:44,420 as to when he could pull the trigger, 209 00:09:44,420 --> 00:09:44,660 as to when and it was just a mess. 210 00:09:44,660 --> 00:09:46,580 and it was just a mess. 211 00:09:47,540 --> 00:09:50,980 At the bottom it said, "If you don't follow the seven-step test," 212 00:09:50,980 --> 00:09:53,980 basically, "you'll be guilty of murder." 213 00:09:55,580 --> 00:09:57,780 McBride was outraged 214 00:09:57,780 --> 00:10:00,060 when the ADF launched investigations 215 00:10:00,060 --> 00:10:02,940 into incidents involving SAS soldiers 216 00:10:02,940 --> 00:10:07,060 that he considered to be lawful killings. 217 00:10:07,060 --> 00:10:09,980 You don't investigate innocent people 218 00:10:09,980 --> 00:10:12,180 in order to make up for the bad people. 219 00:10:12,180 --> 00:10:15,620 If there is political bullshit going on against soldiers, 220 00:10:15,620 --> 00:10:18,460 and it doesn't matter whether they're SAS or not, 221 00:10:18,460 --> 00:10:19,620 you need to stand up for it. 222 00:10:19,620 --> 00:10:21,420 (ROTORS WHIRR) 223 00:10:21,420 --> 00:10:23,900 He ended up putting his job on the line 224 00:10:23,900 --> 00:10:26,780 defending a corporal who shot a prisoner. 225 00:10:26,780 --> 00:10:30,260 An SAS soldier had captured a Taliban person 226 00:10:30,260 --> 00:10:30,500 An SAS soldier and then the Taliban person 227 00:10:30,500 --> 00:10:32,220 and then the Taliban person 228 00:10:32,220 --> 00:10:34,860 made a grab 229 00:10:34,860 --> 00:10:37,060 for the SAS soldier's weapon, 230 00:10:37,060 --> 00:10:40,740 and it was a 30-second struggle for the control of the weapon. 231 00:10:40,740 --> 00:10:43,580 Eventually, the SAS guy got his finger on the trigger, 232 00:10:43,580 --> 00:10:45,380 pulled the trigger and shot the guy dead. 233 00:10:45,380 --> 00:10:46,700 And that's when I said, "Hang on, 234 00:10:46,700 --> 00:10:49,900 "everything about this soldier's story looks right." 235 00:10:49,900 --> 00:10:50,140 "everything about But if you had heard the rumours, 236 00:10:50,140 --> 00:10:52,420 But if you had heard the rumours, 237 00:10:52,420 --> 00:10:56,340 why take a stance on that particular investigation 238 00:10:56,340 --> 00:11:00,260 to say that this is not a war crime that warrants investigation? 239 00:11:00,260 --> 00:11:02,780 Well, you take a stand because it's the right thing to do. 240 00:11:02,780 --> 00:11:03,020 Well, you take a stand (HELICOPTER ROTORS WHIRR) 241 00:11:03,020 --> 00:11:05,980 (HELICOPTER ROTORS WHIRR) 242 00:11:07,820 --> 00:11:11,300 This is when McBride's obsession began. 243 00:11:12,660 --> 00:11:16,380 He returned to Australia a changed man. 244 00:11:17,340 --> 00:11:18,940 I never really came back. 245 00:11:18,940 --> 00:11:20,140 And, to a certain extent, 246 00:11:20,140 --> 00:11:23,860 I've never really returned from that 2013 tour mentally. 247 00:11:23,860 --> 00:11:27,340 And Sarah knew it, and the kids, I think. 248 00:11:27,340 --> 00:11:29,980 Funnily enough, Georgie, my youngest daughter, is quite sensitive, 249 00:11:29,980 --> 00:11:30,220 Funnily enough, Georgie, my youngest I think she knew it. 250 00:11:30,220 --> 00:11:31,460 I think she knew it. 251 00:11:31,460 --> 00:11:33,940 It was hard for us to bond after that tour. 252 00:11:37,700 --> 00:11:40,940 GEORGIE MCBRIDE: I'm trying to find a good way to put it. 253 00:11:40,940 --> 00:11:41,180 He... GEORGIE MCBRIDE: I'm trying to find a good way to put it. 254 00:11:41,180 --> 00:11:43,100 He... 255 00:11:43,100 --> 00:11:45,300 (SIGHS) I don't know how to say it. 256 00:11:45,300 --> 00:11:46,700 It's like... 257 00:11:47,660 --> 00:11:51,540 ..yeah, he becomes kind of in his own fairy world, 258 00:11:51,540 --> 00:11:52,940 that's what we call it. 259 00:11:52,940 --> 00:11:55,820 I think mentally it's very different for him. 260 00:11:56,780 --> 00:12:00,420 McBride started compiling an internal complaint 261 00:12:00,420 --> 00:12:01,860 about the ADF leadership 262 00:12:01,860 --> 00:12:07,260 and what he believed was the illegal investigation of SAS soldiers. 263 00:12:07,260 --> 00:12:07,500 and what he believed was the illegal I tried to let it slide for a while, 264 00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:09,500 I tried to let it slide for a while, 265 00:12:09,500 --> 00:12:11,980 but I was still boiling on the inside. 266 00:12:11,980 --> 00:12:14,260 I knew I was gonna go to war against my own country. 267 00:12:14,260 --> 00:12:14,500 I knew I was gonna go to war In his report 268 00:12:14,500 --> 00:12:15,940 In his report 269 00:12:15,940 --> 00:12:20,180 McBride described the investigation of five separate incidents 270 00:12:20,180 --> 00:12:20,460 as "overzealous'" and "driven by appearances." McBride described the investigation of five separate incidents 271 00:12:20,460 --> 00:12:24,820 as "overzealous'" and "driven by appearances." 272 00:12:26,460 --> 00:12:28,820 He printed off secret documents 273 00:12:28,820 --> 00:12:32,700 inside the Special Operations headquarters near Canberra 274 00:12:32,700 --> 00:12:34,500 and stored them at home. 275 00:12:35,740 --> 00:12:39,740 It took me many months, six months probably... 276 00:12:41,700 --> 00:12:43,700 ..but I was still angry about this issue, 277 00:12:43,700 --> 00:12:46,860 so, I was drinking in order to deal with that anger. 278 00:12:46,860 --> 00:12:49,900 I was probably doing a half a bottle of vodka each day, 279 00:12:49,900 --> 00:12:54,420 built up to about three quarters of bottle of vodka every single day. 280 00:12:54,420 --> 00:12:55,660 And I wasn't sleeping much. 281 00:12:55,660 --> 00:12:55,900 I was on ADHD medication, which I was abusing to stay awake all night. And I wasn't sleeping much. 282 00:12:55,900 --> 00:13:01,460 I was on ADHD medication, which I was abusing to stay awake all night. 283 00:13:01,460 --> 00:13:04,020 I'd frequently stay in the office all night. 284 00:13:04,020 --> 00:13:04,300 I'd frequently stay in the office all night. But everything else in my life fell apart 285 00:13:04,300 --> 00:13:06,300 But everything else in my life fell apart 286 00:13:06,300 --> 00:13:08,460 to try to put that complaint together. 287 00:13:08,460 --> 00:13:11,780 Were you concerned about him during that time? 288 00:13:11,780 --> 00:13:14,660 SARAH MCBRIDE: Absolutely. Very concerned. 289 00:13:14,660 --> 00:13:17,660 It wasn't the Dave that I knew. 290 00:13:17,660 --> 00:13:17,900 There were times where I had to sit on suicide watch with him. It wasn't the Dave that I knew. 291 00:13:17,900 --> 00:13:23,460 There were times where I had to sit on suicide watch with him. 292 00:13:24,980 --> 00:13:27,500 I never expected to become whistleblower. 293 00:13:27,500 --> 00:13:28,780 I was a true believer. 294 00:13:28,780 --> 00:13:34,260 But there comes a point when you see things which are just so wrong 295 00:13:34,260 --> 00:13:34,500 But there comes a point when you see you have to stand up. 296 00:13:34,500 --> 00:13:36,420 you have to stand up. 297 00:13:43,900 --> 00:13:46,260 The first step in trying to make sense 298 00:13:46,260 --> 00:13:46,500 The first step of David McBride and his motives 299 00:13:46,500 --> 00:13:48,420 of David McBride and his motives 300 00:13:48,420 --> 00:13:50,820 is knowing his past. 301 00:13:52,420 --> 00:13:54,260 It's quite emotional. 302 00:13:54,260 --> 00:13:56,020 A lot of things you've half-forgotten. 303 00:13:56,020 --> 00:14:01,700 He's the youngest of four children of Dr William McBride. 304 00:14:01,700 --> 00:14:04,020 Here we go. This Is Your Life moment. 305 00:14:04,020 --> 00:14:06,100 That's not a bad photo of the family. 306 00:14:09,340 --> 00:14:11,940 The famed Sydney obstetrician 307 00:14:11,940 --> 00:14:13,860 was credited with blowing the whistle 308 00:14:13,860 --> 00:14:19,580 on the dangers of the pregnancy drug thalidomide in the 1960s. 309 00:14:20,580 --> 00:14:23,260 He was obviously well-regarded. 310 00:14:26,780 --> 00:14:30,140 This is me in the British army 311 00:14:30,140 --> 00:14:34,340 training for SAS selection in Wales. 312 00:14:34,340 --> 00:14:34,580 When David was a young soldier training for SAS selection in Wales. 313 00:14:34,580 --> 00:14:37,820 When David was a young soldier serving in the UK, 314 00:14:37,820 --> 00:14:38,060 When David was a young soldier his father lost his hero status. 315 00:14:38,060 --> 00:14:41,300 his father lost his hero status. 316 00:14:42,260 --> 00:14:44,460 Dr McBride was found guilty 317 00:14:44,460 --> 00:14:44,700 of falsifying research Dr McBride was found guilty 318 00:14:44,700 --> 00:14:47,900 of falsifying research on other pregnancy drugs 319 00:14:47,900 --> 00:14:48,140 of falsifying research and forced to stop practising. 320 00:14:48,140 --> 00:14:51,100 and forced to stop practising. 321 00:14:51,100 --> 00:14:53,740 Once a hero of international medicine, 322 00:14:53,740 --> 00:14:56,980 Dr William McBride has been struck off. 323 00:14:56,980 --> 00:14:58,220 Our aim, of course... 324 00:14:58,220 --> 00:15:03,380 A man of good deeds brought down by a fatal flaw of character. 325 00:15:04,340 --> 00:15:08,340 Is there a reluctance for you to compare yourself to him in some ways? 326 00:15:08,340 --> 00:15:10,020 Yeah, I think so. 327 00:15:10,020 --> 00:15:12,540 I can see the analogies, but in a black-humoured way. 328 00:15:12,540 --> 00:15:14,620 I don't want to have too much ego about it. 329 00:15:14,620 --> 00:15:17,740 He was a world-renowned scientist 330 00:15:17,740 --> 00:15:21,420 and he had a great public downfall, of course, as well. 331 00:15:21,420 --> 00:15:21,660 and he had a great public downfall, But that was a lesson for me too, 332 00:15:21,660 --> 00:15:22,980 But that was a lesson for me too, 333 00:15:22,980 --> 00:15:25,380 to say, "Always be honest. 334 00:15:25,380 --> 00:15:26,660 "Always, always be honest." 335 00:15:26,660 --> 00:15:30,740 And if you're in the shit, don't dig it deeper by denying... 336 00:15:30,740 --> 00:15:30,980 And if you're in the shit, ..denying the obvious. 337 00:15:30,980 --> 00:15:32,820 ..denying the obvious. 338 00:15:33,900 --> 00:15:36,220 OK, welcome to The Ops Room. 339 00:15:36,220 --> 00:15:37,940 I'm Ghost Three-Zero, 340 00:15:37,940 --> 00:15:40,420 and while that sounds a little bit gimmicky, 341 00:15:40,420 --> 00:15:40,660 and while that sounds it's not. 342 00:15:40,660 --> 00:15:42,020 it's not. 343 00:15:42,020 --> 00:15:42,260 The ADF eventually dismissed it's not. 344 00:15:42,260 --> 00:15:45,540 The ADF eventually dismissed McBride's complaint 345 00:15:45,540 --> 00:15:45,780 The ADF eventually dismissed and most of his concerns. 346 00:15:45,780 --> 00:15:47,740 and most of his concerns. 347 00:15:47,740 --> 00:15:50,940 So, he took matters into his own hands. 348 00:15:50,940 --> 00:15:55,300 The Ops Room was the brainchild of a guy called Major David McBride. 349 00:15:55,300 --> 00:15:55,540 The Ops Room was the brainchild He was very smart, very nice, 350 00:15:55,540 --> 00:15:57,220 He was very smart, very nice, 351 00:15:57,220 --> 00:15:58,420 um... 352 00:15:58,420 --> 00:16:00,380 ..but that killed him. 353 00:16:00,380 --> 00:16:00,620 In 2016, he started posting videos on social media. ..but that killed him. 354 00:16:00,620 --> 00:16:06,020 In 2016, he started posting videos on social media. 355 00:16:06,020 --> 00:16:10,300 McBride was still working for Defence at this point. 356 00:16:10,300 --> 00:16:10,540 McBride was still working for Defence at this point. The generals of the Australian Army, 357 00:16:10,540 --> 00:16:12,820 The generals of the Australian Army, 358 00:16:12,820 --> 00:16:15,860 probably for their pathetic-ness, 359 00:16:15,860 --> 00:16:16,100 they had it in probably for their pathetic-ness, 360 00:16:16,100 --> 00:16:18,340 they had it in for the special forces. 361 00:16:21,300 --> 00:16:27,140 Do you think you do come across a bit unstable in those videos? 362 00:16:27,140 --> 00:16:29,580 I don't know, I haven't watched them. Possibly. 363 00:16:29,580 --> 00:16:31,820 But, I mean, it's not relevant. 364 00:16:31,820 --> 00:16:35,620 I was trying to create attention 365 00:16:35,620 --> 00:16:40,140 and I was trying to achieve an important mission. 366 00:16:41,580 --> 00:16:47,140 He published his internal complaint on a blog he called The Ops Room. 367 00:16:48,580 --> 00:16:50,060 One of his grievances 368 00:16:50,060 --> 00:16:50,300 was the ADF's recruitment drive One of his grievances 369 00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:55,220 was the ADF's recruitment drive to increase the number of women. 370 00:16:55,220 --> 00:17:01,500 McBride accused senior leadership of valuing gender over capability. 371 00:17:01,500 --> 00:17:05,700 What was it about that that seemed to upset you so much? 372 00:17:06,660 --> 00:17:09,300 It was all bullshit. That was the problem. 373 00:17:09,300 --> 00:17:09,580 We don't need to look into someone's pants It was all bullshit. That was the problem. 374 00:17:09,580 --> 00:17:11,020 We don't need to look into someone's pants 375 00:17:11,020 --> 00:17:11,260 when they join the defence force. to look into someone's pants 376 00:17:11,260 --> 00:17:12,500 when they join the defence force. 377 00:17:12,500 --> 00:17:14,100 We take people who are good. 378 00:17:14,100 --> 00:17:14,340 We take people who are good. in the defence force. 379 00:17:14,340 --> 00:17:16,220 We need more good people in the defence force. 380 00:17:16,220 --> 00:17:18,820 We don't need more men. We don't need more women. 381 00:17:18,820 --> 00:17:21,700 We don't need more dark-skinned people. We don't need more Muslims. 382 00:17:21,700 --> 00:17:23,100 We need more good people. 383 00:17:23,100 --> 00:17:23,300 We need more good people. OK, this is ground zero. 384 00:17:23,300 --> 00:17:25,820 OK, this is ground zero. 385 00:17:25,820 --> 00:17:27,620 Empty bachelor apartment. 386 00:17:27,620 --> 00:17:32,420 McBride's life was spiralling out of control by this stage. 387 00:17:32,420 --> 00:17:34,100 Separating. 388 00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:38,260 He decided to end his marriage with Sarah. 389 00:17:39,860 --> 00:17:43,900 In order to have that conversation, I had to get high, 390 00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:45,940 I had to take the prescription amphetamines, a lot of 'em, 391 00:17:45,940 --> 00:17:46,180 I had to take the prescription because it's...it's... 392 00:17:46,180 --> 00:17:48,860 because it's...it's... 393 00:17:48,860 --> 00:17:51,580 ..it's a very hard conversation to have. 394 00:17:51,580 --> 00:17:51,820 ..it's a very hard conversation But knowing that I would never be 395 00:17:51,820 --> 00:17:54,420 But knowing that I would never be 396 00:17:54,420 --> 00:17:56,260 the father of the family 397 00:17:56,260 --> 00:17:58,300 in quite the same way that I was then 398 00:17:58,300 --> 00:17:58,540 in quite the same way and knowing... 399 00:17:58,540 --> 00:17:59,500 and knowing... 400 00:17:59,500 --> 00:18:01,700 As I remember leaving that day 401 00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:03,980 and crying and crying and crying 402 00:18:03,980 --> 00:18:06,060 It still makes me... 403 00:18:06,060 --> 00:18:07,460 ..emotional now. 404 00:18:07,460 --> 00:18:07,700 But to know that I would never ..emotional now. 405 00:18:07,700 --> 00:18:10,580 But to know that I would never be that person again 406 00:18:10,580 --> 00:18:10,820 But to know that I would never and what I had lost and, um... 407 00:18:10,820 --> 00:18:15,100 and what I had lost and, um... 408 00:18:17,500 --> 00:18:20,460 SARAH MCBRIDE: It was devastating at the time. 409 00:18:20,460 --> 00:18:23,140 It was incredibly hard to hear, 410 00:18:23,140 --> 00:18:23,340 but, knowing David well enough It was incredibly hard to hear, 411 00:18:23,340 --> 00:18:26,620 but, knowing David well enough 412 00:18:26,620 --> 00:18:30,420 and what he believed was the right thing to do, 413 00:18:30,420 --> 00:18:30,660 and what he believed was the right thing to do, I had to go, 414 00:18:30,660 --> 00:18:32,100 I had to go, 415 00:18:32,100 --> 00:18:35,340 and, rather than push against it, 416 00:18:35,340 --> 00:18:38,260 I kind of had to go with it. 417 00:18:39,900 --> 00:18:42,220 (BELL DINGS) 418 00:18:45,380 --> 00:18:48,660 As McBride continued posting online, 419 00:18:48,660 --> 00:18:51,820 he drew the attention of a journalist. 420 00:18:52,980 --> 00:18:58,420 Dan Oakes is a senior reporter with the ABC's Investigations team. 421 00:18:58,420 --> 00:19:03,260 He's never spoken publicly about McBride being a source. 422 00:19:04,980 --> 00:19:07,220 DAN OAKES: Finally decided after all this time 423 00:19:07,220 --> 00:19:11,780 that it's important that the people know the truth about what happened. 424 00:19:11,780 --> 00:19:17,340 It's a much greyer and murkier and messier story than people appreciate 425 00:19:17,340 --> 00:19:17,580 It's a much greyer and murkier and and I guess, you know, in the end 426 00:19:17,580 --> 00:19:20,180 and I guess, you know, in the end 427 00:19:20,180 --> 00:19:22,460 that's what it comes down to. 428 00:19:22,460 --> 00:19:25,100 Let's go back to the beginning for a bit 429 00:19:25,100 --> 00:19:28,260 because I want to understand how it was 430 00:19:28,260 --> 00:19:30,900 that you first came across David McBride? 431 00:19:30,900 --> 00:19:31,140 I believe that somebody that you first came across David McBride? 432 00:19:31,140 --> 00:19:33,180 I believe that somebody 433 00:19:33,180 --> 00:19:35,820 pointed me towards a website 434 00:19:35,820 --> 00:19:38,740 that David McBride had put up. 435 00:19:38,740 --> 00:19:38,980 that David McBride had put up. It was clear he had significant inside knowledge, 436 00:19:38,980 --> 00:19:42,580 It was clear he had significant inside knowledge, 437 00:19:42,580 --> 00:19:42,820 It was clear significant experience in this field 438 00:19:42,820 --> 00:19:45,060 significant experience in this field 439 00:19:45,060 --> 00:19:47,420 and, you know, quite obviously had a gripe, 440 00:19:47,420 --> 00:19:50,220 and, you know, people who have gripes will talk to you. 441 00:19:50,220 --> 00:19:52,500 So, that's just like 'ding, ding, ding!' for a journalist? 442 00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:52,740 So, that's just like Absolutely, yeah. 443 00:19:52,740 --> 00:19:53,740 Absolutely, yeah. 444 00:19:53,740 --> 00:19:56,340 And then it was, you know, a case of, yeah, 445 00:19:56,340 --> 00:20:02,100 how can I sit down with this guy and have a more extended chat? 446 00:20:02,100 --> 00:20:03,820 And we had a long talk about it 447 00:20:03,820 --> 00:20:05,740 and I was prepared to give them secret documents. 448 00:20:05,740 --> 00:20:06,020 In doing so I was risking jail myself. and I was prepared to give them secret documents. 449 00:20:06,020 --> 00:20:08,300 In doing so I was risking jail myself. 450 00:20:08,300 --> 00:20:10,020 I already knew that. And that's how much I believed in it. 451 00:20:10,020 --> 00:20:10,260 I already knew that. And that's I knew right from the beginning. 452 00:20:10,260 --> 00:20:11,860 I knew right from the beginning. 453 00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:19,620 McBride handed over his original complaint 454 00:20:19,620 --> 00:20:23,540 along with thousands of pages of supporting documents, 455 00:20:23,540 --> 00:20:28,100 including classified investigations into SAS soldiers. 456 00:20:28,980 --> 00:20:32,100 What was the story that David McBride wanted told? 457 00:20:32,100 --> 00:20:34,860 He really simply wanted the story to say 458 00:20:34,860 --> 00:20:38,100 that the special forces in Afghanistan 459 00:20:38,100 --> 00:20:41,500 were being unfairly targeted and unfairly scrutinised 460 00:20:41,500 --> 00:20:44,460 and investigated when they shouldn't have been investigated. 461 00:20:44,460 --> 00:20:46,220 So, he's starting over here 462 00:20:46,220 --> 00:20:48,180 saying that SAS troops 463 00:20:48,180 --> 00:20:51,820 are being unfairly targeted and over-investigated. 464 00:20:51,820 --> 00:20:55,380 How different then is the story that you ended up pursuing? 465 00:20:55,380 --> 00:20:57,900 Well, it was diametrically opposed, wasn't it? 466 00:20:57,900 --> 00:20:59,460 The more I looked into it, I couldn't conceive 467 00:20:59,460 --> 00:21:01,540 of how anyone would claim that these guys 468 00:21:01,540 --> 00:21:04,540 were being too tightly monitored. 469 00:21:04,540 --> 00:21:07,220 It was precisely the opposite. 470 00:21:08,540 --> 00:21:10,700 I mean, the picture that became clear 471 00:21:10,700 --> 00:21:13,300 was just one of Afghanistan being a black hole 472 00:21:13,300 --> 00:21:13,540 was just one in which events occurred. 473 00:21:13,540 --> 00:21:15,260 in which events occurred. 474 00:21:15,260 --> 00:21:18,100 What happened out in the field stayed out in the field. 475 00:21:19,620 --> 00:21:22,460 And I realised that it was a big story. 476 00:21:22,460 --> 00:21:27,780 I was also aware there had been very little or next to nothing reported 477 00:21:27,780 --> 00:21:31,100 about allegations of war crimes to that date. 478 00:21:31,100 --> 00:21:34,900 Did you speak to David McBride before the Afghan Files were published? 479 00:21:34,900 --> 00:21:38,260 I did, I rang David and his response was simply, 480 00:21:38,260 --> 00:21:38,500 I did, I rang David "You do what you've got to do," 481 00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:39,900 "You do what you've got to do," 482 00:21:39,900 --> 00:21:42,060 and he hung up. 483 00:21:42,060 --> 00:21:42,300 And then the Afghan Files and he hung up. 484 00:21:42,300 --> 00:21:45,420 And then the Afghan Files were published. 485 00:21:45,420 --> 00:21:45,660 And then the Afghan Files (GUNFIRE) 486 00:21:45,660 --> 00:21:46,420 (GUNFIRE) 487 00:21:46,420 --> 00:21:48,620 VOICEOVER: Tonight we reveal serious allegations 488 00:21:48,620 --> 00:21:52,380 that Australian soldiers may have committed unlawful killings 489 00:21:52,380 --> 00:21:54,180 during Australia's longest war. 490 00:21:54,180 --> 00:21:57,700 7:30 has spoken to 10 other former and current soldiers. 491 00:21:57,700 --> 00:21:59,740 They agreed that a culture of recklessness 492 00:21:59,740 --> 00:22:02,940 infected some elements of special forces in Afghanistan 493 00:22:02,940 --> 00:22:05,740 around who was a legitimate target and who wasn't. 494 00:22:09,300 --> 00:22:11,860 I remember the exact moment I saw it, 495 00:22:11,860 --> 00:22:14,100 and I was about to get on a plane to Sydney, 496 00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:15,540 and I was like, "Uh-oh." 497 00:22:15,540 --> 00:22:18,980 And I knew it was the documents that I'd given them, 498 00:22:18,980 --> 00:22:19,220 And I knew it was the documents and I knew I was in the frame. 499 00:22:19,220 --> 00:22:20,660 and I knew I was in the frame. 500 00:22:24,140 --> 00:22:28,780 The ADF had discharged McBride six months earlier. 501 00:22:28,780 --> 00:22:29,020 The ADF had discharged McBride When the story broke 502 00:22:29,020 --> 00:22:30,420 When the story broke 503 00:22:30,420 --> 00:22:34,820 they immediately referred the leak to the Australian Federal Police, 504 00:22:34,820 --> 00:22:37,180 which launched an investigation. 505 00:22:38,260 --> 00:22:42,940 What were you prepared to do to protect McBride as a source? 506 00:22:42,940 --> 00:22:46,740 I would have done anything, I mean anything required. 507 00:22:46,740 --> 00:22:48,780 Go to jail? Yeah, absolutely. 508 00:22:48,780 --> 00:22:49,060 You can't work as a journalist I don't think Go to jail? Yeah, absolutely. 509 00:22:49,060 --> 00:22:50,700 You can't work as a journalist I don't think 510 00:22:50,700 --> 00:22:53,700 if you're not willing to go to the absolute lengths, 511 00:22:53,700 --> 00:22:54,860 you know, the ends of the earth 512 00:22:54,860 --> 00:22:56,420 to protect a source. 513 00:23:07,540 --> 00:23:09,500 The police were closing in. 514 00:23:09,500 --> 00:23:09,740 McBride made the decision The police were closing in. 515 00:23:09,740 --> 00:23:12,660 McBride made the decision to flee to Spain, 516 00:23:12,660 --> 00:23:12,900 McBride made the decision leaving behind his young family. 517 00:23:12,900 --> 00:23:15,380 leaving behind his young family. 518 00:23:24,940 --> 00:23:27,100 After a year in hiding 519 00:23:27,100 --> 00:23:28,460 he risked it all, 520 00:23:28,460 --> 00:23:32,980 returning to Australia for a father-daughter school dance. 521 00:23:34,820 --> 00:23:38,860 (EAGLE ROCK BY DADDY COOL PLAYS) 522 00:23:41,220 --> 00:23:44,740 JAMES MCBRIDE: I'm dancing with a couple of my friends in the crowd, 523 00:23:44,740 --> 00:23:47,940 and he comes up behind me, and I just turn around... 524 00:23:49,340 --> 00:23:50,820 ..and I was in shock. 525 00:23:50,820 --> 00:23:54,380 I put my hands over my mouth and we hug and it was... 526 00:23:56,220 --> 00:23:57,980 ..one of the best nights ever, actually. 527 00:23:57,980 --> 00:23:58,220 ..one of the best nights ever, It was really, really nice. 528 00:23:58,220 --> 00:24:01,220 It was really, really nice. 529 00:24:02,180 --> 00:24:06,020 He did not want to let his daughter down, whatever the cost. 530 00:24:06,020 --> 00:24:06,300 And that's what then triggered the chain of events once he got back He did not want to let his daughter down, whatever the cost. 531 00:24:06,300 --> 00:24:10,900 And that's what then triggered the chain of events once he got back 532 00:24:10,900 --> 00:24:11,140 And that's what then triggered and I received the call 533 00:24:11,140 --> 00:24:12,740 and I received the call 534 00:24:12,740 --> 00:24:12,940 and I received the call that he'd been arrested. 535 00:24:12,940 --> 00:24:14,900 that he'd been arrested. 536 00:24:17,100 --> 00:24:19,300 In a full confession to police 537 00:24:19,300 --> 00:24:25,300 McBride admitted giving classified documents to Dan Oakes and the ABC. 538 00:24:26,540 --> 00:24:28,020 DAN OAKES: We received an email 539 00:24:28,020 --> 00:24:30,500 saying essentially, "This is the Federal Police. 540 00:24:30,500 --> 00:24:32,140 "You're a suspect in a crime." 541 00:24:32,140 --> 00:24:33,860 I guess seeking our cooperation 542 00:24:33,860 --> 00:24:34,100 and asking if we would search I guess seeking our cooperation 543 00:24:34,100 --> 00:24:36,980 and asking if we would search our own systems 544 00:24:36,980 --> 00:24:40,140 for documents that they were looking for. 545 00:24:40,140 --> 00:24:43,180 And then, you know, I guess eventually 546 00:24:43,180 --> 00:24:46,260 they realised they were gonna have to come in through the front door 547 00:24:46,260 --> 00:24:48,940 and search for it themselves. 548 00:24:48,940 --> 00:24:52,580 (BEEPING) 549 00:24:55,700 --> 00:24:59,980 So, what we'd be looking for firstly is secure communications 550 00:24:59,980 --> 00:25:06,700 between Mr McBride and Mr Oakes concerning military information. 551 00:25:09,300 --> 00:25:10,860 My first reaction was, 552 00:25:10,860 --> 00:25:11,100 "What are they gonna find My first reaction was, 553 00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:14,380 "What are they gonna find and what are they gonna do with it?" 554 00:25:15,340 --> 00:25:20,980 The AFP did not find any secret documents at the ABC. 555 00:25:20,980 --> 00:25:21,220 The AFP did not find It was a massive step. 556 00:25:21,220 --> 00:25:23,460 It was a massive step. 557 00:25:23,460 --> 00:25:27,420 I don't think it had been done in Australia before. 558 00:25:27,420 --> 00:25:30,140 I mean, it gets to the heart of all those big questions, obviously, 559 00:25:30,140 --> 00:25:32,300 about media freedom and national security 560 00:25:32,300 --> 00:25:32,540 about media freedom and the treatment of whistleblowers. 561 00:25:32,540 --> 00:25:34,780 and the treatment of whistleblowers. 562 00:25:36,180 --> 00:25:38,660 Prosecutors ultimately decided 563 00:25:38,660 --> 00:25:42,380 charging Dan Oakes was not in the public interest. 564 00:25:42,380 --> 00:25:46,940 They persisted with the case against David McBride. 565 00:25:46,940 --> 00:25:50,180 I was confronted with the prospect that I was gonna walk away scot-free 566 00:25:50,180 --> 00:25:50,420 I was confronted with the prospect and David was gonna be prosecuted, 567 00:25:50,420 --> 00:25:52,180 and David was gonna be prosecuted, 568 00:25:52,180 --> 00:25:56,060 and for me that was really, really difficult to deal with, 569 00:25:56,060 --> 00:25:58,500 it had a substantial effect on me. 570 00:26:04,580 --> 00:26:09,380 Oakes and McBride haven't spoken since the stories were published. 571 00:26:10,340 --> 00:26:15,220 McBride was unhappy with the way the ABC used the documents. 572 00:26:17,500 --> 00:26:19,220 But by 2020 573 00:26:19,220 --> 00:26:24,380 his legal team was publicly crediting him with exposing war crimes. 574 00:26:27,460 --> 00:26:29,220 (WHISTLES BLOW) 575 00:26:29,220 --> 00:26:31,140 SUPPORTER: (ON MIC) How about we all join them on the stage 576 00:26:31,140 --> 00:26:31,380 SUPPORTER: (ON MIC) How about for a photo with our whistles 577 00:26:31,380 --> 00:26:32,860 for a photo with our whistles 578 00:26:32,860 --> 00:26:33,100 and the three whistleblowers for a photo with our whistles 579 00:26:33,100 --> 00:26:34,540 and the three whistleblowers at the front? 580 00:26:34,540 --> 00:26:38,220 It's a narrative that media, politicians and human rights groups 581 00:26:38,220 --> 00:26:38,460 It's a narrative that media, have since run with. 582 00:26:38,460 --> 00:26:39,820 have since run with. 583 00:26:39,820 --> 00:26:40,060 SUPPORTER: Let's all do this have since run with. 584 00:26:40,060 --> 00:26:43,220 SUPPORTER: Let's all do this tomorrow at the court for Dave! 585 00:26:43,220 --> 00:26:43,460 SUPPORTER: Let's all do this (CHEERING, WHISTLES BLOW) 586 00:26:43,460 --> 00:26:44,420 (CHEERING, WHISTLES BLOW) 587 00:26:44,420 --> 00:26:47,860 DAN OAKES: They've adopted him as a whistleblower and a martyr, 588 00:26:47,860 --> 00:26:51,340 and, so, I wouldn't say it's entirely down to him, 589 00:26:51,340 --> 00:26:53,180 but certainly the narrative that's being portrayed 590 00:26:53,180 --> 00:26:53,420 but certainly the narrative is not 100% correct. 591 00:26:53,420 --> 00:26:55,660 is not 100% correct. 592 00:26:55,660 --> 00:26:58,140 He never at any point, I believe, 593 00:26:58,140 --> 00:27:02,580 mentioned war crimes or showed any desire to uncover war crimes 594 00:27:02,580 --> 00:27:04,900 or have people punished for war crimes. 595 00:27:04,900 --> 00:27:05,140 or have people punished Stand there and think of nothing. 596 00:27:05,140 --> 00:27:07,700 Stand there and think of nothing. 597 00:27:08,660 --> 00:27:11,620 Do you think that he does deserve the public support? 598 00:27:11,620 --> 00:27:13,580 MARK DAVIS: Oh, no, he does deserve it. I've got no question. 599 00:27:13,580 --> 00:27:13,820 MARK DAVIS: Oh, no, he does I've got no question about David, 600 00:27:13,820 --> 00:27:15,460 I've got no question about David, 601 00:27:15,460 --> 00:27:17,860 that he made a significant difference 602 00:27:17,860 --> 00:27:20,380 in revealing the behaviour of Australian forces. 603 00:27:20,380 --> 00:27:23,020 He didn't mean to, though. That wasn't his intention. 604 00:27:23,020 --> 00:27:23,260 He didn't mean to, though. I don't think that's correct. 605 00:27:23,260 --> 00:27:24,580 I don't think that's correct. 606 00:27:24,580 --> 00:27:24,780 It's apparent within the material, I don't think that's correct. 607 00:27:24,780 --> 00:27:29,220 It's apparent within the material, 608 00:27:29,220 --> 00:27:29,460 It's apparent within the material, by the virtue of giving it, by the act of giving it, 609 00:27:29,460 --> 00:27:31,500 by the virtue of giving it, by the act of giving it, 610 00:27:31,500 --> 00:27:33,060 he wants someone to do something with it. 611 00:27:33,060 --> 00:27:33,300 he wants someone And it's exactly what happened. 612 00:27:33,300 --> 00:27:34,540 And it's exactly what happened. 613 00:27:34,540 --> 00:27:36,380 So, there's a duality to McBride. 614 00:27:36,380 --> 00:27:36,620 He's defending soldiers who are So, there's a duality to McBride. 615 00:27:36,620 --> 00:27:41,500 He's defending soldiers who are improperly accused of war crimes. 616 00:27:41,500 --> 00:27:43,380 What's wrong with THAT? I mean, it's a good thing. 617 00:27:43,380 --> 00:27:43,620 What's wrong with THAT? He should be proud of it. 618 00:27:43,620 --> 00:27:44,860 He should be proud of it. 619 00:27:44,860 --> 00:27:46,860 I'd act for him if that's all he did. 620 00:27:49,300 --> 00:27:52,460 My jury whisperer says don't wear a tie. 621 00:27:52,460 --> 00:27:52,700 My jury whisperer (CHUCKLES) 622 00:27:52,700 --> 00:27:53,740 (CHUCKLES) 623 00:27:53,740 --> 00:27:53,980 These are my suits (CHUCKLES) 624 00:27:53,980 --> 00:27:56,380 These are my suits to win the jury over. 625 00:27:56,380 --> 00:27:56,620 These are my suits One on one day, one the other day. 626 00:27:56,620 --> 00:27:59,460 One on one day, one the other day. 627 00:27:59,460 --> 00:28:01,620 A few days out from his trial, 628 00:28:01,620 --> 00:28:04,860 McBride is packing his bags for Canberra. 629 00:28:04,860 --> 00:28:06,340 These are socks from the kids. 630 00:28:06,340 --> 00:28:08,500 Ex-wife, Sarah, is helping him. 631 00:28:08,500 --> 00:28:10,540 You've gotta look like the everyman. 632 00:28:10,540 --> 00:28:12,700 but if you're gonna go down, 633 00:28:12,700 --> 00:28:12,940 you may as well but if you're gonna go down, 634 00:28:12,940 --> 00:28:15,220 you may as well go down looking good, I guess. 635 00:28:15,220 --> 00:28:17,860 Looks like Sarah is gonna be repacking a lot of this. 636 00:28:17,860 --> 00:28:20,620 Yeah, she's gonna do it again. She's gonna do it properly. 637 00:28:20,620 --> 00:28:23,540 I'm very, very, very grateful to have her. 638 00:28:23,540 --> 00:28:25,780 Otherwise I would not be here. 639 00:28:25,780 --> 00:28:29,060 I love you very much. No comments right now! 640 00:28:39,100 --> 00:28:40,820 Alright, buddy, you're coming. 641 00:28:40,820 --> 00:28:44,700 In court he'll be supported by his assistance dog, Jake. 642 00:28:44,700 --> 00:28:44,940 In court he'll be supported In you go. 643 00:28:44,940 --> 00:28:46,220 In you go. 644 00:28:46,220 --> 00:28:49,580 McBride is diagnosed with PTSD. 645 00:28:50,900 --> 00:28:52,100 OK! 646 00:28:52,100 --> 00:28:53,940 Have you got everything? 647 00:28:53,940 --> 00:28:57,740 I'll bring it with me if Jake's ready to go. Alright. 648 00:28:57,740 --> 00:28:59,140 Aw, OK. Thank you. 649 00:28:59,140 --> 00:29:01,220 See you on Sunday. OK. (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) 650 00:29:10,180 --> 00:29:13,220 (BAGPIPES PLAY) 651 00:29:17,580 --> 00:29:20,620 (PLAYS TRADITIONAL MELODY) 652 00:29:27,900 --> 00:29:29,060 (VEHICLE DOORS SHUT) 653 00:29:29,060 --> 00:29:31,700 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 654 00:29:31,700 --> 00:29:33,180 Where are we going? 655 00:29:33,180 --> 00:29:35,140 (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) 656 00:29:35,140 --> 00:29:35,380 On the first day (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) 657 00:29:35,380 --> 00:29:38,140 On the first day of McBride's criminal trial 658 00:29:38,140 --> 00:29:41,860 his supporters are gathering outside court. 659 00:29:42,820 --> 00:29:44,660 Some of his biggest backers 660 00:29:44,660 --> 00:29:44,900 are high-profile whistleblowers Some of his biggest backers 661 00:29:44,900 --> 00:29:47,660 are high-profile whistleblowers themselves 662 00:29:47,660 --> 00:29:50,940 who exposed corruption and wrongdoing. 663 00:29:53,420 --> 00:29:55,940 TROY STOLZ: While I've still got a breath 664 00:29:55,940 --> 00:29:58,580 and still got my legs working 665 00:29:58,580 --> 00:30:00,700 I'm gonna keep supporting David. 666 00:30:00,700 --> 00:30:00,940 I'm gonna keep (CHEERING) 667 00:30:00,940 --> 00:30:02,300 (CHEERING) 668 00:30:02,300 --> 00:30:02,540 They've been lobbying (CHEERING) 669 00:30:02,540 --> 00:30:05,060 They've been lobbying the federal government 670 00:30:05,060 --> 00:30:05,300 They've been lobbying to stop McBride's prosecution, 671 00:30:05,300 --> 00:30:07,620 to stop McBride's prosecution, 672 00:30:07,620 --> 00:30:10,700 which has cost taxpayers millions. 673 00:30:11,660 --> 00:30:13,300 (CHEERING) 674 00:30:13,300 --> 00:30:16,820 McBride arrives to a hero's welcome. 675 00:30:16,820 --> 00:30:19,300 (WHISTLES BLOW) Thank you, everybody! 676 00:30:19,300 --> 00:30:22,580 (CHEERING) Thank you, everybody! 677 00:30:22,580 --> 00:30:26,260 (CHEERING, WHISTLES BLOW) 678 00:30:26,260 --> 00:30:32,180 Inside he'll face prosecutors who deny he's a genuine whistleblower. 679 00:30:33,140 --> 00:30:36,100 Thank you, everybody. Thank you, everybody. 680 00:30:36,100 --> 00:30:37,500 SECURITY: Away from the door, please! 681 00:30:37,500 --> 00:30:37,740 SECURITY: Away from the door, You are part of my family. 682 00:30:37,740 --> 00:30:39,500 You are part of my family. 683 00:30:39,500 --> 00:30:42,540 MARK DAVIS: Quick, David, quick. We've got a minute, mate. 684 00:30:42,540 --> 00:30:46,140 Today I serve my country. 685 00:30:46,140 --> 00:30:50,300 (CHEERING, WHISTLES BLOW) 686 00:30:53,220 --> 00:30:58,100 And the question I have for you, Anthony Albanese, 687 00:30:58,100 --> 00:30:59,820 is who do you serve? 688 00:30:59,820 --> 00:31:07,260 (CHEERING, WHISTLES BLOW) 689 00:31:07,260 --> 00:31:08,860 This way. 690 00:31:11,220 --> 00:31:13,540 Camera back. 691 00:31:13,540 --> 00:31:15,780 No camera. Go away. 692 00:31:15,780 --> 00:31:18,380 SECURITY: Sir, you need to go back. Go away. 693 00:31:19,660 --> 00:31:22,140 (WHISTLES BLOW) 694 00:31:22,140 --> 00:31:24,020 The case gets underway. 695 00:31:24,980 --> 00:31:28,500 The judge hears legal argument on a pivotal issue - 696 00:31:28,500 --> 00:31:28,740 The judge hears legal argument the definition of a soldier's duty. 697 00:31:28,740 --> 00:31:31,020 the definition of a soldier's duty. 698 00:31:31,020 --> 00:31:34,940 Prosecutors say it's about obeying orders. 699 00:31:34,940 --> 00:31:38,660 McBride's defence says soldiers have a higher duty 700 00:31:38,660 --> 00:31:41,780 to serve Australia's national interest. 701 00:31:43,780 --> 00:31:45,980 Mark, can we grab you for a sec? 702 00:31:45,980 --> 00:31:50,940 There seems to be a lot riding on this argument of duty. 703 00:31:50,940 --> 00:31:54,820 Is there any point in the Crown continuing if you win the argument? 704 00:31:54,820 --> 00:31:55,060 Is there any point in the Crown Well, it's a...it's a... 705 00:31:55,060 --> 00:31:57,300 Well, it's a...it's a... 706 00:31:57,300 --> 00:31:59,060 ..it's a central issue. 707 00:31:59,060 --> 00:32:01,060 If we win it, 708 00:32:01,060 --> 00:32:02,460 well, we'll be pretty happy. 709 00:32:02,460 --> 00:32:06,340 I mean, it's a very difficult mountain for us to climb. 710 00:32:06,340 --> 00:32:11,660 A lot is riding on the failure or success of today's argument. 711 00:32:11,660 --> 00:32:12,860 Thank you. OK. 712 00:32:37,220 --> 00:32:40,220 After two days of legal argument 713 00:32:40,220 --> 00:32:44,460 it's finally D-day for the definition of duty. 714 00:32:47,260 --> 00:32:52,980 Either way, I think the judge will be against us on the duty question. 715 00:32:52,980 --> 00:32:55,620 What kind of toll is this taking on you personally 716 00:32:55,620 --> 00:32:55,860 What kind of toll at this stage of things? 717 00:32:55,860 --> 00:32:57,700 at this stage of things? 718 00:32:57,700 --> 00:33:00,220 I'm pretty strong. 719 00:33:00,220 --> 00:33:02,460 It's just about killed me, 720 00:33:02,460 --> 00:33:06,140 and there'd be plenty of people who wouldn't survive this. 721 00:33:06,140 --> 00:33:12,460 If I ended up being treated as a traitor and a pariah, 722 00:33:12,460 --> 00:33:16,060 it would be really effing hard for me to go on, I have to say. 723 00:33:16,060 --> 00:33:16,300 it would be really effing hard Today I feel alright. 724 00:33:16,300 --> 00:33:17,540 Today I feel alright. 725 00:33:17,540 --> 00:33:21,300 I'm looking forward to tell my full story. 726 00:33:21,300 --> 00:33:24,460 But there are times when I am really close. 727 00:33:25,420 --> 00:33:28,660 That's... That's a lot to... 728 00:33:28,660 --> 00:33:32,020 ..to say out loud at this point. 729 00:33:32,020 --> 00:33:32,820 Yeah. 730 00:33:32,820 --> 00:33:34,300 But you've won my confidence, 731 00:33:34,300 --> 00:33:36,420 and, you know, I don't mind sharing that with you. 732 00:33:36,420 --> 00:33:39,420 But yeah, no, I... I was close the other night. 733 00:33:40,380 --> 00:33:42,020 Alright. OK. Thank you. 734 00:33:57,820 --> 00:34:03,660 Inside, Justice David Mossop hands down his decision. 735 00:34:03,660 --> 00:34:06,420 (WHISTLES BLOW) 736 00:34:06,420 --> 00:34:07,900 Not much happened. 737 00:34:07,900 --> 00:34:10,020 So, just explain to me what happened in there? 738 00:34:10,020 --> 00:34:12,380 Well, the judge went through all our arguments yesterday 739 00:34:12,380 --> 00:34:12,620 Well, the judge went through to say what does duty mean? 740 00:34:12,620 --> 00:34:14,100 to say what does duty mean? 741 00:34:14,100 --> 00:34:15,340 And he downed the ball 742 00:34:15,340 --> 00:34:21,260 and he said duty just means to do what you're told by your superiors. 743 00:34:21,260 --> 00:34:23,820 There's no exceptions, there's no defence. 744 00:34:27,380 --> 00:34:30,540 His barristers have one last shot. 745 00:34:30,540 --> 00:34:35,780 They ask for leave to appeal the judge's decision the next day. 746 00:34:35,780 --> 00:34:38,020 But there's a bigger obstacle 747 00:34:38,020 --> 00:34:39,540 to McBride's defence, 748 00:34:39,540 --> 00:34:42,060 and it's playing out in secret 749 00:34:42,060 --> 00:34:42,260 and it's playing out in secret under national security laws. 750 00:34:42,260 --> 00:34:44,860 under national security laws. 751 00:34:45,940 --> 00:34:48,420 Right, so, they've just closed the court. 752 00:34:48,420 --> 00:34:52,060 So, now there's a secret hearing taking place upstairs, 753 00:34:52,060 --> 00:34:57,700 and all we know is that it relates to sensitive intelligence information 754 00:34:57,700 --> 00:34:57,940 and all we know is that it relates that involves Australia's allies. 755 00:34:57,940 --> 00:35:00,500 that involves Australia's allies. 756 00:35:02,180 --> 00:35:04,380 It's a unique situation. 757 00:35:04,380 --> 00:35:07,540 The federal government is an extra party in court 758 00:35:07,540 --> 00:35:07,780 The federal government with its own legal team. 759 00:35:07,780 --> 00:35:10,020 with its own legal team. 760 00:35:10,900 --> 00:35:14,260 They want to remove certain documents from the trial 761 00:35:14,260 --> 00:35:16,260 that McBride wants for his defence, 762 00:35:16,260 --> 00:35:20,180 claiming it's in the public interest to withhold the information. 763 00:35:21,980 --> 00:35:25,020 MARK DAVIS: It's a secrecy provision where the government says, 764 00:35:25,020 --> 00:35:27,500 "You're not gonna reveal that document in a courtroom." 765 00:35:27,500 --> 00:35:30,940 It's walking in, thief in the night, and walking out. 766 00:35:35,540 --> 00:35:38,300 Have you seen him? Is he here? 767 00:35:48,060 --> 00:35:49,540 The following day 768 00:35:49,540 --> 00:35:51,740 things go from bad to worse. 769 00:35:56,860 --> 00:35:59,660 Are you alright, David? Yeah, a bit frazzled. 770 00:36:01,420 --> 00:36:03,180 McBride loses his bid 771 00:36:03,180 --> 00:36:03,420 to appeal the judge's ruling McBride loses his bid 772 00:36:03,420 --> 00:36:07,220 to appeal the judge's ruling on the definition of duty. 773 00:36:08,180 --> 00:36:10,500 This means the jury will be told 774 00:36:10,500 --> 00:36:14,460 there are no exceptions to a soldier following orders. 775 00:36:15,460 --> 00:36:17,460 Something seems to be brewing, 776 00:36:17,460 --> 00:36:20,740 the secret hearing is still taking place upstairs, 777 00:36:20,740 --> 00:36:23,140 but David McBride and his senior legal team 778 00:36:23,140 --> 00:36:27,020 have now left court quite suddenly to have a meeting together. 779 00:36:27,020 --> 00:36:30,260 It seems like an emergency briefing of some kind, 780 00:36:30,260 --> 00:36:30,500 It seems like an emergency briefing which suggests that there could be 781 00:36:30,500 --> 00:36:32,140 which suggests that there could be 782 00:36:32,140 --> 00:36:32,380 a dramatic turn of events which suggests that there could be 783 00:36:32,380 --> 00:36:34,860 a dramatic turn of events this afternoon. 784 00:36:35,820 --> 00:36:38,860 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 785 00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:45,700 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 786 00:36:45,700 --> 00:36:49,100 McBride's defence is in crisis. 787 00:36:50,500 --> 00:36:53,620 Mark Davis says national security laws 788 00:36:53,620 --> 00:36:56,140 are already hampering their defence, 789 00:36:56,140 --> 00:37:00,740 but if the government has its way, McBride can only lose. 790 00:37:00,740 --> 00:37:00,980 but if the government has its way, It is fatal to a fair trial. 791 00:37:00,980 --> 00:37:02,900 It is fatal to a fair trial. 792 00:37:02,900 --> 00:37:04,500 He has NO chance. 793 00:37:04,500 --> 00:37:05,500 No chance! 794 00:37:05,500 --> 00:37:07,260 If they can walk off with the evidence, 795 00:37:07,260 --> 00:37:09,220 what chance can you have before a jury? 796 00:37:11,060 --> 00:37:13,460 DAVID MCBRIDE: I love you so much. Georgie's the best hugger. 797 00:37:13,460 --> 00:37:13,700 DAVID MCBRIDE: I love you so much. Even as a little one-year-old 798 00:37:13,700 --> 00:37:15,260 Even as a little one-year-old 799 00:37:15,260 --> 00:37:17,340 she used to come in and give me hugs. 800 00:37:19,180 --> 00:37:24,100 The next morning, McBride's lawyers ask to see him urgently. 801 00:37:24,100 --> 00:37:24,340 The next morning, McBride's lawyers Ah. 802 00:37:24,340 --> 00:37:25,700 Ah. 803 00:37:26,660 --> 00:37:29,180 Thank you for everything. 804 00:37:29,180 --> 00:37:31,900 OK, see you later. 805 00:37:35,620 --> 00:37:37,860 They couldn't say exactly what on the phone, 806 00:37:37,860 --> 00:37:42,140 but it sounds like we're gonna talk about a plea deal. 807 00:37:42,140 --> 00:37:44,860 I've always said I will never give up on this 808 00:37:44,860 --> 00:37:45,100 I've always said and I will never plead guilty. 809 00:37:45,100 --> 00:37:47,020 and I will never plead guilty. 810 00:37:47,020 --> 00:37:47,260 It may be and I will never plead guilty. 811 00:37:47,260 --> 00:37:49,500 It may be that that's what I have to do - 812 00:37:49,500 --> 00:37:51,020 plead guilty, hold my head up high 813 00:37:51,020 --> 00:37:54,020 and say, "Well, if that's the law, that's the law." 814 00:37:58,900 --> 00:38:05,220 McBride has waited five years to defend himself in front of a jury. 815 00:38:06,860 --> 00:38:08,540 Come on. 816 00:38:13,420 --> 00:38:18,780 It could all be about to end before he even takes the stand. 817 00:38:18,780 --> 00:38:19,020 It could all be about to end Here he is. Alright, boss? 818 00:38:19,020 --> 00:38:20,900 Here he is. Alright, boss? 819 00:38:48,540 --> 00:38:49,660 (SIGHS) 820 00:38:50,620 --> 00:38:54,340 Could be the last decent lunch for a while. 821 00:38:55,300 --> 00:38:57,980 McBride has made up his mind - 822 00:38:57,980 --> 00:39:00,460 he's going to plead guilty. 823 00:39:00,460 --> 00:39:02,340 I brought you a jacket and a shirt, 824 00:39:02,340 --> 00:39:05,140 but it's up in the chambers. That's good. Thank you. 825 00:39:05,140 --> 00:39:10,540 With a few minutes to spare before court, he sits down with us. 826 00:39:10,540 --> 00:39:10,780 With a few minutes to spare It's just an emotional time. 827 00:39:10,780 --> 00:39:12,020 It's just an emotional time. 828 00:39:12,020 --> 00:39:13,780 I said even if I'd won the case, 829 00:39:13,780 --> 00:39:18,220 the first thing I'd want to is cry. 830 00:39:18,220 --> 00:39:21,620 You hold the emotions down for as long as you possibly can, 831 00:39:21,620 --> 00:39:25,460 and whatever happens, whenever you change from one phase to another, 832 00:39:25,460 --> 00:39:25,700 and whatever happens, whenever you the emotion comes out, 833 00:39:25,700 --> 00:39:26,940 the emotion comes out, 834 00:39:26,940 --> 00:39:27,180 and then you sleep and you reset the emotion comes out, 835 00:39:27,180 --> 00:39:30,100 and then you sleep and you reset and you get charged 836 00:39:30,100 --> 00:39:34,100 and wake up and start on the next phase. 837 00:39:34,100 --> 00:39:36,180 And now, speaking of which, I've got to go across. 838 00:39:36,180 --> 00:39:36,420 And now, speaking of which, Yes, Jake! 839 00:39:36,420 --> 00:39:37,260 Yes, Jake! 840 00:39:38,220 --> 00:39:39,700 Thanks, David. Thank you. 841 00:39:39,700 --> 00:39:39,940 Thanks, David. We'll see you up there. 842 00:39:39,940 --> 00:39:41,220 We'll see you up there. 843 00:39:46,260 --> 00:39:48,260 In a deal with prosecutors, 844 00:39:48,260 --> 00:39:51,540 McBride pleads guilty to one charge of stealing 845 00:39:51,540 --> 00:39:57,060 and two charges of unlawfully sharing secret military information. 846 00:39:57,060 --> 00:39:57,300 and two charges of unlawfully (WHISTLES BLOW) 847 00:39:57,300 --> 00:39:58,060 (WHISTLES BLOW) 848 00:39:58,060 --> 00:39:58,300 SUPPORTER: (ON MIC) (WHISTLES BLOW) 849 00:39:58,300 --> 00:40:00,540 SUPPORTER: (ON MIC) Mark Davis and David McBride. 850 00:40:00,540 --> 00:40:00,780 SUPPORTER: (ON MIC) (CHEERING, WHISTLES BLOW) 851 00:40:00,780 --> 00:40:02,500 (CHEERING, WHISTLES BLOW) 852 00:40:02,500 --> 00:40:05,820 The judge upholds the federal government's bid 853 00:40:05,820 --> 00:40:08,500 to remove evidence from his defence. 854 00:40:09,460 --> 00:40:12,220 An extra burden today 855 00:40:12,220 --> 00:40:14,380 was that the Crown, the government, 856 00:40:14,380 --> 00:40:14,620 was given authority was that the Crown, the government, 857 00:40:14,620 --> 00:40:17,420 was given authority to bundle up evidence 858 00:40:17,420 --> 00:40:17,660 was given authority and run out the back door with it. 859 00:40:17,660 --> 00:40:19,900 and run out the back door with it. 860 00:40:20,780 --> 00:40:22,980 They've taken it from us. 861 00:40:22,980 --> 00:40:25,220 He's no longer able to put it before a jury. 862 00:40:25,220 --> 00:40:26,620 That is a fatal blow. 863 00:40:26,620 --> 00:40:28,300 It makes it impossible 864 00:40:28,300 --> 00:40:32,660 for us realistically to go to trial. 865 00:40:32,660 --> 00:40:34,620 I'm not giving up hope. 866 00:40:34,620 --> 00:40:36,100 He's done the right thing. 867 00:40:36,100 --> 00:40:38,500 I've said that from the beginning. 868 00:40:38,500 --> 00:40:41,180 Truth and justice will prevail. 869 00:40:41,180 --> 00:40:45,180 And I'm incredibly proud of him, as are his two girls. 870 00:40:45,180 --> 00:40:45,420 And I'm incredibly proud of him, (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) 871 00:40:45,420 --> 00:40:49,780 (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) 872 00:40:49,780 --> 00:40:54,420 McBride is allowed out on bail until sentencing. 873 00:41:02,700 --> 00:41:04,740 SARAH MCBRIDE: I will never back down 874 00:41:04,740 --> 00:41:09,740 from believing in that this was the right thing for him to do. 875 00:41:28,980 --> 00:41:32,740 McBride is fighting to keep his name in the headlines. 876 00:41:34,900 --> 00:41:39,180 Today he's doing a photoshoot for the cover of a magazine. 877 00:41:43,780 --> 00:41:46,060 DAVID MCBRIDE: You do have to have a little bit of showmanship, 878 00:41:46,060 --> 00:41:48,260 you do have to get out there and spruik yourself. 879 00:41:48,260 --> 00:41:50,260 Some of it works, some of it doesn't. 880 00:41:50,260 --> 00:41:52,500 But if you want to win you have to do it. 881 00:41:52,500 --> 00:41:54,740 Do you like the attention? 882 00:41:54,740 --> 00:42:01,300 I don't hate it, but I'm aware that it brings enemies as well as fans. 883 00:42:02,860 --> 00:42:07,100 Not all the publicity is favourable. 884 00:42:07,100 --> 00:42:10,700 The credit he's received for exposing war crimes 885 00:42:10,700 --> 00:42:10,940 The credit he's received is now being scrutinised. 886 00:42:10,940 --> 00:42:12,620 is now being scrutinised. 887 00:42:14,180 --> 00:42:17,580 He was not blowing the whistle to reveal war crimes. 888 00:42:17,580 --> 00:42:20,260 He has acknowledged he was doing the reverse. 889 00:42:21,220 --> 00:42:23,380 DAN OAKES: I don't derive any pleasure 890 00:42:23,380 --> 00:42:25,300 from the fact that people are now becoming aware 891 00:42:25,300 --> 00:42:27,300 of what David McBride was claiming 892 00:42:27,300 --> 00:42:30,100 when he first came forward. 893 00:42:30,100 --> 00:42:33,820 I just think it's important that the truth is told. 894 00:42:33,820 --> 00:42:37,660 All the evidence to date, evidence that we uncovered at the ABC, 895 00:42:37,660 --> 00:42:41,060 other journalists have uncovered, Justice Brereton uncovered, 896 00:42:41,060 --> 00:42:44,500 it's clear now that this is a significant problem, 897 00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:47,980 that our guys over there were insufficiently restrained 898 00:42:47,980 --> 00:42:51,060 and probably should have been investigated more. 899 00:43:00,820 --> 00:43:06,300 Dan Oakes' reporting has come at a great personal cost. 900 00:43:07,260 --> 00:43:10,620 I don't like it when I see journalists becoming the story. 901 00:43:11,860 --> 00:43:14,900 I don't like it at all. And it's... 902 00:43:14,900 --> 00:43:15,140 So, it's quite awkward I don't like it at all. And it's... 903 00:43:15,140 --> 00:43:18,580 So, it's quite awkward sitting here discussing this. 904 00:43:20,740 --> 00:43:22,940 Look, it had a significant effect. 905 00:43:22,940 --> 00:43:26,500 It had a massive effect on me mentally and morally 906 00:43:26,500 --> 00:43:26,740 It had a massive effect on me and even physically. 907 00:43:26,740 --> 00:43:28,700 and even physically. 908 00:43:28,700 --> 00:43:32,180 You know, I became quite unrecognisable 909 00:43:32,180 --> 00:43:32,420 You know, I became as the person that I was, 910 00:43:32,420 --> 00:43:33,900 as the person that I was, 911 00:43:33,900 --> 00:43:36,620 and the people around me, really, 912 00:43:36,620 --> 00:43:39,820 they were the ones who paid the price for that. 913 00:43:39,820 --> 00:43:42,340 $22.20. There you go. 914 00:43:43,900 --> 00:43:47,020 What triggered that aftermath for you? 915 00:43:47,020 --> 00:43:51,700 For me it was always guilt and shame 916 00:43:51,700 --> 00:43:51,940 For me about what happened to David. 917 00:43:51,940 --> 00:43:53,580 about what happened to David. 918 00:43:53,580 --> 00:43:58,100 David is the one that's gonna pay the price for this, 919 00:43:58,100 --> 00:43:59,500 not me, 920 00:43:59,500 --> 00:44:02,700 and, yeah, I don't think there's ever gonna be a time 921 00:44:02,700 --> 00:44:05,220 where I don't feel some guilt and shame 922 00:44:05,220 --> 00:44:07,700 over the fact that that happened. 923 00:44:15,380 --> 00:44:19,980 (LAUGHTER, CHATTER) 924 00:44:20,940 --> 00:44:22,980 DAVID MCBRIDE: Whether I'm a war-crimes whistleblower 925 00:44:22,980 --> 00:44:23,220 DAVID MCBRIDE: Whether or a defence-force whistleblower, 926 00:44:23,220 --> 00:44:24,980 or a defence-force whistleblower, 927 00:44:24,980 --> 00:44:27,460 it doesn't really matter in the sense 928 00:44:27,460 --> 00:44:30,380 that I'm someone that stood up for what I believed in, 929 00:44:30,380 --> 00:44:32,620 and I'm prepared to go to jail for it. 930 00:44:35,100 --> 00:44:40,420 David McBride says he's never wavered in what he believes in. 931 00:44:43,340 --> 00:44:47,220 You have been made out as though you exposed war crimes, 932 00:44:47,220 --> 00:44:49,740 but that actually wasn't your intention. 933 00:44:49,740 --> 00:44:54,020 You were saying that the SAS were being over-investigated. 934 00:44:54,020 --> 00:44:56,660 How do you respond to that kind of criticism? 935 00:44:56,660 --> 00:44:59,380 I've always been about the leadership. 936 00:44:59,380 --> 00:45:02,060 The war crimes were a symptom of that, 937 00:45:02,060 --> 00:45:04,340 I think they were a symptom of bad leadership, 938 00:45:04,340 --> 00:45:06,180 and the people in my sights 939 00:45:06,180 --> 00:45:08,420 have always been the generals. 940 00:45:08,420 --> 00:45:13,340 Certain parts of the media may have misunderstood what I stood up for, 941 00:45:13,340 --> 00:45:13,580 Certain parts of the media may have but if people don't understand me, 942 00:45:13,580 --> 00:45:16,340 but if people don't understand me, 943 00:45:16,340 --> 00:45:18,820 that won't kill me. 944 00:45:24,340 --> 00:45:28,620 McBride will find out his fate later this year. 945 00:45:29,820 --> 00:45:31,340 I don't want to go to jail, 946 00:45:31,340 --> 00:45:34,700 but I'm not afraid of it in that I'm very much focused on the mission, 947 00:45:34,700 --> 00:45:36,980 and the mission is not to avoid jail, 948 00:45:36,980 --> 00:45:37,220 and the mission it's not to go to jail, 949 00:45:37,220 --> 00:45:38,860 it's not to go to jail, 950 00:45:38,860 --> 00:45:41,060 it's to get change in Australia. 951 00:45:41,060 --> 00:45:45,140 Now, I will do that whichever way I can. 952 00:45:45,140 --> 00:45:51,140 Jail may be just a phase in that operation. 953 00:45:51,140 --> 00:45:56,340 So, you going to jail you think might prove that point? 954 00:45:56,340 --> 00:45:57,580 Something dark inside of me 955 00:45:57,580 --> 00:46:00,740 says it's the only way it's gonna happen. 956 00:46:05,780 --> 00:46:07,820 (THEME MUSIC PLAYS)