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(THEME MUSIC PLAYS)
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GRACE TOBIN: Well, David, you're
often described as a whistleblower.
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GRACE TOBIN: Well, David, you're
often described as a whistleblower.
Some people also say you're a hero.
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Some people also say you're a hero.
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(CHEERING, WHISTLES BLOW)
Thank you, everybody!
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(CHEERING, WHISTLES BLOW)
(CHEERING, WHISTLES BLOW)
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(CHEERING, WHISTLES BLOW)
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SUPPORTER: (ON MIC)
Thank you, David.
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The Australian public is much richer
for his contribution.
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Then there are those
who say you're a traitor.
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Then there are those
How do you view yourself?
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How do you view yourself?
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I view myself
as a soldier who did his job,
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I view myself
and that's really what I am.
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and that's really what I am.
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Obviously,
I like being called a hero,
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it kind of helps
when you're in a jail cell.
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it kind of helps
(LAUGHS)
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(LAUGHS)
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Makes you feel a bit better!
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David McBride is a former
military lawyer who blew the whistle.
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Today I serve my country.
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(CHEERING)
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He's celebrated for exposing
war crimes in Afghanistan.
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And what's David McBride's crime?
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His crime is telling the truth
about war crimes!
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(CHEERING)
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But the truth
is that wasn't his intention.
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DAN OAKES:
It was entirely the opposite.
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David McBride wanted to expose
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that our soldiers
were being unfairly targeted,
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they were being
unfairly investigated.
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It's a much greyer and murkier
and messier story
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than people appreciate.
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Are you just someone
who broke the law and got caught?
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(SCOFFS) I didn't sell the plans
to the Chinese.
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(SCOFFS) I didn't sell the plans
It wasn't robbing a bank.
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It wasn't robbing a bank.
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I say I saw the government
It wasn't robbing a bank.
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I say I saw the government
breaking the law.
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With his criminal trial
shrouded in secrecy.
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With his criminal trial
No camera! Go away!
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No camera! Go away!
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Oi! Go away!
No camera! Go away!
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Oi! Go away!
SECURITY: Sir, you need to go back.
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Oi! Go away!
You need to go back.
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You need to go back.
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Right, so,
they've just closed the court.
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Now there's
a secret hearing
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Now there's
taking place upstairs.
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taking place upstairs.
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MARK DAVIS: This is the power
of the Attorney-General
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sitting in the middle of a courtroom
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ready to gag everybody
sitting in the middle of a courtroom
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ready to gag everybody
in a heartbeat.
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We go inside David McBride's
high-stakes battle for vindication
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and ask
what is he really fighting for?
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DAVID MCBRIDE: I believe
I am still fighting for Australia.
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My enemies would say the same thing,
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but I believe I'm right
and I believe they're wrong.
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And I'm still putting my life
on the line for this country,
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And I'm still putting my life
just as my oath told me to do.
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just as my oath told me to do.
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Time for one more coffee?
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It's a little routine...
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..having a coffee.
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Charger.
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It's the week before
David McBride's criminal trial.
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It's the week before
Doggie treats.
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Doggie treats.
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Might as well have one before we go.
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Reality is hitting home.
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I'm not allowed
to take Jake into prison.
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I'm trying to find someone
who can do it.
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Messages from well-wishers.
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Sometimes I'm too anxious
to read them.
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It's easier to read hate mail
than it is praise.
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On social media
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McBride is crowdfunding
for his legal defence.
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I'm asking for support
from everyday Australians
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I'm asking for support
to give a small amount
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to give a small amount
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within your capacity
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to help my campaign.
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Do you know how much money you've
raised over the last few years?
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Approximately, but it must be
around half a million bucks.
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Important paperwork, Jake.
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Must remember to take that.
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McBride's bail documents
list five federal offences.
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He's playing hide-and-seek!
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He's charged with giving
secret documents to journalists
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when he was a lawyer
for the Australian Defence Force.
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It's got the offences on it too.
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Has it ever occurred to you
to run or hide?
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Quite a few people say,
"Why wouldn't you run?
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"I could, for 20 grand,
get you powerful a jet ski,
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"I could, for 20 grand,
"take off from Bondi.
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"take off from Bondi.
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"You'll meet a boat
20 kilometres out,
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"and you'll get on the boat
and they'll take you..."
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"and you'll get on the boat
(LAUGHS)
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(LAUGHS)
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"..take you somewhere."
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I don't want to spend the rest
of my life on the run,
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you know, disguised,
like Tony Mokbel.
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But it's easy to talk tough
when you're sitting in Paddington.
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See how you go
inside of a 6-by-4 cell, you know?
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Oh, look at their faces.
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You're excited?!
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They're very excited.
Excited?
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You know something's happening.
Yes!
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Prison is front of mind for McBride.
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If convicted he faces years in jail.
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A little left and then right.
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It's a confronting thought
for his daughters Georgie and James
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It's a confronting thought
and ex-wife, Sarah,
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and ex-wife, Sarah,
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who's stood by him since
and ex-wife, Sarah,
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who's stood by him since
their separation eight years ago.
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It's unusual.
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It's a very unusual situation.
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But we're best of mates
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and when you believe
in something
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and when you believe
strong enough,
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strong enough,
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you'll keep
fighting for it.
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I thought it might be a short cut.
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JAMES MCBRIDE:
It's been so many years of our life.
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Most of my childhood
had the case in it,
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and the fact we've been through
all the hardships
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and the fact we've been through
of what the case
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of what the case
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has done
with everyone,
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and he'd still
go to jail,
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it would be
like a loss.
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it would be
Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Legally,
it's a difficult case to defend.
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McBride has already
admitted to police
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that he broke the law
by revealing national secrets.
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His entire defence now rests on
proving it was the right thing to do.
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There would be no such thing
as whistleblowers
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There would be no such thing
if they get up on this,
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if they get up on this,
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'cause how could you be
if they get up on this,
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'cause how could you be
a whistleblower if...
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'cause how could you be
MARK DAVIS: You'd be crucified.
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MARK DAVIS: You'd be crucified.
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Mark Davis is the lead solicitor
on the case.
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We assume that it's known
what it means, right?
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Here we are, eight lawyers,
going, "What does 'duty' mean?"
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Here we are, eight lawyers,
I mean, it's really bloody...
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I mean, it's really bloody...
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(LAUGHS)
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The case is being run
under national security laws,
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which means
there are heavy restrictions
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which means
around the handling of evidence.
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around the handling of evidence.
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It's bullshit that, anything to do
with national security, they use -
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and I know this 'cause I used to be
inside the system -
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they use this as a weapon
to make it harder for defendants.
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You guys will have to clear out
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because we're just gonna
You guys will have to clear out
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because we're just gonna
go through the documents, now, OK?
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And you just literally
can't see them, that's all.
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See ya.
See ya.
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(HELICOPTER ROTORS WHIRR)
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To understand
how David McBride ended up here,
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we have to go back 11 years
to the war in Afghanistan.
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McBride was on deployment as a lawyer
with Australia's special forces.
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I loved my job at special forces.
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I thought it was the best job
I loved my job at special forces.
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I thought it was the best job
in the world.
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Rumours were escalating
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that war crimes were being
Rumours were escalating
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that war crimes were being
committed by members of the SAS.
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We now know from an independent
inquiry called the Brereton Report
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We now know from an independent
that there's credible information
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that there's credible information
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that 39 Afghans were unlawfully
that there's credible information
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that 39 Afghans were unlawfully
killed by 25 Australian soldiers.
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At the time,
that wasn't McBride's main concern.
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At the time,
that wasn't McBride's main concern.
(GUNSHOTS)
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(GUNSHOTS)
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You were the legal officer
(GUNSHOTS)
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You were the legal officer
for the special forces.
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What rumours were you hearing
at this time?
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Did you have a sense
of those 39 murders yourself?
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Yeah, I heard the rumours,
Did you have a sense
of those 39 murders yourself?
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Yeah, I heard the rumours,
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but as a lawyer you don't pay
Yeah, I heard the rumours,
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but as a lawyer you don't pay
too much attention to the rumours.
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but as a lawyer you don't pay
too much attention to the rumours.
And they were my clients,
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And they were my clients,
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and, so, I went there
with an open mind.
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I knew that soldiers weren't angels,
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particularly
special forces soldiers,
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but I also didn't think
that they were all devils.
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Back in 2013
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the ADF decided to reinforce
the Rules of Engagement
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the ADF decided to reinforce
to say soldiers can only shoot
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to say soldiers can only shoot
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if they have a high degree
of confidence a person is a threat.
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I made a complaint about it to say
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this could get soldiers killed
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because it had, like,
a seven-step test
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for a soldier
in a firefight with a Taliban
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as to when
he could pull the trigger,
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as to when
and it was just a mess.
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and it was just a mess.
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At the bottom it said, "If you
don't follow the seven-step test,"
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basically,
"you'll be guilty of murder."
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McBride was outraged
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when the ADF launched investigations
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into incidents involving SAS soldiers
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that he considered
to be lawful killings.
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You don't investigate
innocent people
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in order to make up
for the bad people.
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If there is political bullshit
going on against soldiers,
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and it doesn't matter
whether they're SAS or not,
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you need to stand up for it.
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(ROTORS WHIRR)
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He ended up
putting his job on the line
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defending a corporal
who shot a prisoner.
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An SAS soldier
had captured a Taliban person
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An SAS soldier
and then the Taliban person
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and then the Taliban person
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made a grab
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for the SAS soldier's weapon,
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and it was a 30-second struggle
for the control of the weapon.
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Eventually, the SAS guy
got his finger on the trigger,
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pulled the trigger
and shot the guy dead.
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And that's when I said, "Hang on,
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"everything about
this soldier's story looks right."
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"everything about
But if you had heard the rumours,
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But if you had heard the rumours,
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why take a stance
on that particular investigation
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to say that this is not a war crime
that warrants investigation?
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00:11:00,260 --> 00:11:02,780
Well, you take a stand
because it's the right thing to do.
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Well, you take a stand
(HELICOPTER ROTORS WHIRR)
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(HELICOPTER ROTORS WHIRR)
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This is when
McBride's obsession began.
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He returned to Australia
a changed man.
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I never really came back.
245
00:11:18,940 --> 00:11:20,140
And, to a certain extent,
246
00:11:20,140 --> 00:11:23,860
I've never really returned
from that 2013 tour mentally.
247
00:11:23,860 --> 00:11:27,340
And Sarah knew it,
and the kids, I think.
248
00:11:27,340 --> 00:11:29,980
Funnily enough, Georgie, my youngest
daughter, is quite sensitive,
249
00:11:29,980 --> 00:11:30,220
Funnily enough, Georgie, my youngest
I think she knew it.
250
00:11:30,220 --> 00:11:31,460
I think she knew it.
251
00:11:31,460 --> 00:11:33,940
It was hard for us to bond
after that tour.
252
00:11:37,700 --> 00:11:40,940
GEORGIE MCBRIDE: I'm trying to find
a good way to put it.
253
00:11:40,940 --> 00:11:41,180
He...
GEORGIE MCBRIDE: I'm trying to find
a good way to put it.
254
00:11:41,180 --> 00:11:43,100
He...
255
00:11:43,100 --> 00:11:45,300
(SIGHS) I don't know how to say it.
256
00:11:45,300 --> 00:11:46,700
It's like...
257
00:11:47,660 --> 00:11:51,540
..yeah, he becomes
kind of in his own fairy world,
258
00:11:51,540 --> 00:11:52,940
that's what we call it.
259
00:11:52,940 --> 00:11:55,820
I think mentally
it's very different for him.
260
00:11:56,780 --> 00:12:00,420
McBride started compiling
an internal complaint
261
00:12:00,420 --> 00:12:01,860
about the ADF leadership
262
00:12:01,860 --> 00:12:07,260
and what he believed was the illegal
investigation of SAS soldiers.
263
00:12:07,260 --> 00:12:07,500
and what he believed was the illegal
I tried to let it slide for a while,
264
00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:09,500
I tried to let it slide for a while,
265
00:12:09,500 --> 00:12:11,980
but I was still boiling
on the inside.
266
00:12:11,980 --> 00:12:14,260
I knew I was gonna go to war
against my own country.
267
00:12:14,260 --> 00:12:14,500
I knew I was gonna go to war
In his report
268
00:12:14,500 --> 00:12:15,940
In his report
269
00:12:15,940 --> 00:12:20,180
McBride described the investigation
of five separate incidents
270
00:12:20,180 --> 00:12:20,460
as "overzealous'"
and "driven by appearances."
McBride described the investigation
of five separate incidents
271
00:12:20,460 --> 00:12:24,820
as "overzealous'"
and "driven by appearances."
272
00:12:26,460 --> 00:12:28,820
He printed off secret documents
273
00:12:28,820 --> 00:12:32,700
inside the Special Operations
headquarters near Canberra
274
00:12:32,700 --> 00:12:34,500
and stored them at home.
275
00:12:35,740 --> 00:12:39,740
It took me many months,
six months probably...
276
00:12:41,700 --> 00:12:43,700
..but I was still angry
about this issue,
277
00:12:43,700 --> 00:12:46,860
so, I was drinking
in order to deal with that anger.
278
00:12:46,860 --> 00:12:49,900
I was probably doing
a half a bottle of vodka each day,
279
00:12:49,900 --> 00:12:54,420
built up to about three quarters
of bottle of vodka every single day.
280
00:12:54,420 --> 00:12:55,660
And I wasn't sleeping much.
281
00:12:55,660 --> 00:12:55,900
I was on ADHD medication, which I
was abusing to stay awake all night.
And I wasn't sleeping much.
282
00:12:55,900 --> 00:13:01,460
I was on ADHD medication, which I
was abusing to stay awake all night.
283
00:13:01,460 --> 00:13:04,020
I'd frequently
stay in the office all night.
284
00:13:04,020 --> 00:13:04,300
I'd frequently
stay in the office all night.
But everything else in my life
fell apart
285
00:13:04,300 --> 00:13:06,300
But everything else in my life
fell apart
286
00:13:06,300 --> 00:13:08,460
to try to put
that complaint together.
287
00:13:08,460 --> 00:13:11,780
Were you concerned about him
during that time?
288
00:13:11,780 --> 00:13:14,660
SARAH MCBRIDE:
Absolutely. Very concerned.
289
00:13:14,660 --> 00:13:17,660
It wasn't the Dave that I knew.
290
00:13:17,660 --> 00:13:17,900
There were times where I had
to sit on suicide watch with him.
It wasn't the Dave that I knew.
291
00:13:17,900 --> 00:13:23,460
There were times where I had
to sit on suicide watch with him.
292
00:13:24,980 --> 00:13:27,500
I never expected
to become whistleblower.
293
00:13:27,500 --> 00:13:28,780
I was a true believer.
294
00:13:28,780 --> 00:13:34,260
But there comes a point when you see
things which are just so wrong
295
00:13:34,260 --> 00:13:34,500
But there comes a point when you see
you have to stand up.
296
00:13:34,500 --> 00:13:36,420
you have to stand up.
297
00:13:43,900 --> 00:13:46,260
The first step
in trying to make sense
298
00:13:46,260 --> 00:13:46,500
The first step
of David McBride and his motives
299
00:13:46,500 --> 00:13:48,420
of David McBride and his motives
300
00:13:48,420 --> 00:13:50,820
is knowing his past.
301
00:13:52,420 --> 00:13:54,260
It's quite emotional.
302
00:13:54,260 --> 00:13:56,020
A lot of things
you've half-forgotten.
303
00:13:56,020 --> 00:14:01,700
He's the youngest of four children
of Dr William McBride.
304
00:14:01,700 --> 00:14:04,020
Here we go.
This Is Your Life moment.
305
00:14:04,020 --> 00:14:06,100
That's not a bad photo
of the family.
306
00:14:09,340 --> 00:14:11,940
The famed Sydney obstetrician
307
00:14:11,940 --> 00:14:13,860
was credited with blowing the whistle
308
00:14:13,860 --> 00:14:19,580
on the dangers of the pregnancy drug
thalidomide in the 1960s.
309
00:14:20,580 --> 00:14:23,260
He was obviously well-regarded.
310
00:14:26,780 --> 00:14:30,140
This is me in the British army
311
00:14:30,140 --> 00:14:34,340
training for SAS selection in Wales.
312
00:14:34,340 --> 00:14:34,580
When David was a young soldier
training for SAS selection in Wales.
313
00:14:34,580 --> 00:14:37,820
When David was a young soldier
serving in the UK,
314
00:14:37,820 --> 00:14:38,060
When David was a young soldier
his father lost his hero status.
315
00:14:38,060 --> 00:14:41,300
his father lost his hero status.
316
00:14:42,260 --> 00:14:44,460
Dr McBride was found guilty
317
00:14:44,460 --> 00:14:44,700
of falsifying research
Dr McBride was found guilty
318
00:14:44,700 --> 00:14:47,900
of falsifying research
on other pregnancy drugs
319
00:14:47,900 --> 00:14:48,140
of falsifying research
and forced to stop practising.
320
00:14:48,140 --> 00:14:51,100
and forced to stop practising.
321
00:14:51,100 --> 00:14:53,740
Once a hero
of international medicine,
322
00:14:53,740 --> 00:14:56,980
Dr William McBride
has been struck off.
323
00:14:56,980 --> 00:14:58,220
Our aim, of course...
324
00:14:58,220 --> 00:15:03,380
A man of good deeds brought down
by a fatal flaw of character.
325
00:15:04,340 --> 00:15:08,340
Is there a reluctance for you to
compare yourself to him in some ways?
326
00:15:08,340 --> 00:15:10,020
Yeah, I think so.
327
00:15:10,020 --> 00:15:12,540
I can see the analogies,
but in a black-humoured way.
328
00:15:12,540 --> 00:15:14,620
I don't want
to have too much ego about it.
329
00:15:14,620 --> 00:15:17,740
He was a world-renowned scientist
330
00:15:17,740 --> 00:15:21,420
and he had a great public downfall,
of course, as well.
331
00:15:21,420 --> 00:15:21,660
and he had a great public downfall,
But that was a lesson for me too,
332
00:15:21,660 --> 00:15:22,980
But that was a lesson for me too,
333
00:15:22,980 --> 00:15:25,380
to say, "Always be honest.
334
00:15:25,380 --> 00:15:26,660
"Always, always be honest."
335
00:15:26,660 --> 00:15:30,740
And if you're in the shit,
don't dig it deeper by denying...
336
00:15:30,740 --> 00:15:30,980
And if you're in the shit,
..denying the obvious.
337
00:15:30,980 --> 00:15:32,820
..denying the obvious.
338
00:15:33,900 --> 00:15:36,220
OK, welcome to The Ops Room.
339
00:15:36,220 --> 00:15:37,940
I'm Ghost Three-Zero,
340
00:15:37,940 --> 00:15:40,420
and while that sounds
a little bit gimmicky,
341
00:15:40,420 --> 00:15:40,660
and while that sounds
it's not.
342
00:15:40,660 --> 00:15:42,020
it's not.
343
00:15:42,020 --> 00:15:42,260
The ADF eventually dismissed
it's not.
344
00:15:42,260 --> 00:15:45,540
The ADF eventually dismissed
McBride's complaint
345
00:15:45,540 --> 00:15:45,780
The ADF eventually dismissed
and most of his concerns.
346
00:15:45,780 --> 00:15:47,740
and most of his concerns.
347
00:15:47,740 --> 00:15:50,940
So, he took matters
into his own hands.
348
00:15:50,940 --> 00:15:55,300
The Ops Room was the brainchild
of a guy called Major David McBride.
349
00:15:55,300 --> 00:15:55,540
The Ops Room was the brainchild
He was very smart, very nice,
350
00:15:55,540 --> 00:15:57,220
He was very smart, very nice,
351
00:15:57,220 --> 00:15:58,420
um...
352
00:15:58,420 --> 00:16:00,380
..but that killed him.
353
00:16:00,380 --> 00:16:00,620
In 2016, he started posting videos
on social media.
..but that killed him.
354
00:16:00,620 --> 00:16:06,020
In 2016, he started posting videos
on social media.
355
00:16:06,020 --> 00:16:10,300
McBride was still working for Defence
at this point.
356
00:16:10,300 --> 00:16:10,540
McBride was still working for Defence
at this point.
The generals of the Australian Army,
357
00:16:10,540 --> 00:16:12,820
The generals of the Australian Army,
358
00:16:12,820 --> 00:16:15,860
probably for their pathetic-ness,
359
00:16:15,860 --> 00:16:16,100
they had it in
probably for their pathetic-ness,
360
00:16:16,100 --> 00:16:18,340
they had it in
for the special forces.
361
00:16:21,300 --> 00:16:27,140
Do you think you do come across
a bit unstable in those videos?
362
00:16:27,140 --> 00:16:29,580
I don't know,
I haven't watched them. Possibly.
363
00:16:29,580 --> 00:16:31,820
But, I mean, it's not relevant.
364
00:16:31,820 --> 00:16:35,620
I was trying to create attention
365
00:16:35,620 --> 00:16:40,140
and I was trying to achieve
an important mission.
366
00:16:41,580 --> 00:16:47,140
He published his internal complaint
on a blog he called The Ops Room.
367
00:16:48,580 --> 00:16:50,060
One of his grievances
368
00:16:50,060 --> 00:16:50,300
was the ADF's recruitment drive
One of his grievances
369
00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:55,220
was the ADF's recruitment drive
to increase the number of women.
370
00:16:55,220 --> 00:17:01,500
McBride accused senior leadership
of valuing gender over capability.
371
00:17:01,500 --> 00:17:05,700
What was it about that
that seemed to upset you so much?
372
00:17:06,660 --> 00:17:09,300
It was all bullshit.
That was the problem.
373
00:17:09,300 --> 00:17:09,580
We don't need
to look into someone's pants
It was all bullshit.
That was the problem.
374
00:17:09,580 --> 00:17:11,020
We don't need
to look into someone's pants
375
00:17:11,020 --> 00:17:11,260
when they join the defence force.
to look into someone's pants
376
00:17:11,260 --> 00:17:12,500
when they join the defence force.
377
00:17:12,500 --> 00:17:14,100
We take people who are good.
378
00:17:14,100 --> 00:17:14,340
We take people who are good.
in the defence force.
379
00:17:14,340 --> 00:17:16,220
We need more good people
in the defence force.
380
00:17:16,220 --> 00:17:18,820
We don't need more men.
We don't need more women.
381
00:17:18,820 --> 00:17:21,700
We don't need more dark-skinned
people. We don't need more Muslims.
382
00:17:21,700 --> 00:17:23,100
We need more good people.
383
00:17:23,100 --> 00:17:23,300
We need more good people.
OK, this is ground zero.
384
00:17:23,300 --> 00:17:25,820
OK, this is ground zero.
385
00:17:25,820 --> 00:17:27,620
Empty bachelor apartment.
386
00:17:27,620 --> 00:17:32,420
McBride's life was spiralling
out of control by this stage.
387
00:17:32,420 --> 00:17:34,100
Separating.
388
00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:38,260
He decided to end his marriage
with Sarah.
389
00:17:39,860 --> 00:17:43,900
In order to have that conversation,
I had to get high,
390
00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:45,940
I had to take the prescription
amphetamines, a lot of 'em,
391
00:17:45,940 --> 00:17:46,180
I had to take the prescription
because it's...it's...
392
00:17:46,180 --> 00:17:48,860
because it's...it's...
393
00:17:48,860 --> 00:17:51,580
..it's a very hard conversation
to have.
394
00:17:51,580 --> 00:17:51,820
..it's a very hard conversation
But knowing that I would never be
395
00:17:51,820 --> 00:17:54,420
But knowing that I would never be
396
00:17:54,420 --> 00:17:56,260
the father of the family
397
00:17:56,260 --> 00:17:58,300
in quite the same way
that I was then
398
00:17:58,300 --> 00:17:58,540
in quite the same way
and knowing...
399
00:17:58,540 --> 00:17:59,500
and knowing...
400
00:17:59,500 --> 00:18:01,700
As I remember leaving that day
401
00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:03,980
and crying and crying and crying
402
00:18:03,980 --> 00:18:06,060
It still makes me...
403
00:18:06,060 --> 00:18:07,460
..emotional now.
404
00:18:07,460 --> 00:18:07,700
But to know that I would never
..emotional now.
405
00:18:07,700 --> 00:18:10,580
But to know that I would never
be that person again
406
00:18:10,580 --> 00:18:10,820
But to know that I would never
and what I had lost and, um...
407
00:18:10,820 --> 00:18:15,100
and what I had lost and, um...
408
00:18:17,500 --> 00:18:20,460
SARAH MCBRIDE:
It was devastating at the time.
409
00:18:20,460 --> 00:18:23,140
It was incredibly hard to hear,
410
00:18:23,140 --> 00:18:23,340
but, knowing David well enough
It was incredibly hard to hear,
411
00:18:23,340 --> 00:18:26,620
but, knowing David well enough
412
00:18:26,620 --> 00:18:30,420
and what he believed
was the right thing to do,
413
00:18:30,420 --> 00:18:30,660
and what he believed
was the right thing to do,
I had to go,
414
00:18:30,660 --> 00:18:32,100
I had to go,
415
00:18:32,100 --> 00:18:35,340
and, rather than push against it,
416
00:18:35,340 --> 00:18:38,260
I kind of had to go with it.
417
00:18:39,900 --> 00:18:42,220
(BELL DINGS)
418
00:18:45,380 --> 00:18:48,660
As McBride continued posting online,
419
00:18:48,660 --> 00:18:51,820
he drew the attention
of a journalist.
420
00:18:52,980 --> 00:18:58,420
Dan Oakes is a senior reporter
with the ABC's Investigations team.
421
00:18:58,420 --> 00:19:03,260
He's never spoken publicly
about McBride being a source.
422
00:19:04,980 --> 00:19:07,220
DAN OAKES: Finally decided
after all this time
423
00:19:07,220 --> 00:19:11,780
that it's important that the people
know the truth about what happened.
424
00:19:11,780 --> 00:19:17,340
It's a much greyer and murkier and
messier story than people appreciate
425
00:19:17,340 --> 00:19:17,580
It's a much greyer and murkier and
and I guess, you know, in the end
426
00:19:17,580 --> 00:19:20,180
and I guess, you know, in the end
427
00:19:20,180 --> 00:19:22,460
that's what it comes down to.
428
00:19:22,460 --> 00:19:25,100
Let's go back to the beginning
for a bit
429
00:19:25,100 --> 00:19:28,260
because I want to understand
how it was
430
00:19:28,260 --> 00:19:30,900
that you first came across
David McBride?
431
00:19:30,900 --> 00:19:31,140
I believe that somebody
that you first came across
David McBride?
432
00:19:31,140 --> 00:19:33,180
I believe that somebody
433
00:19:33,180 --> 00:19:35,820
pointed me towards a website
434
00:19:35,820 --> 00:19:38,740
that David McBride had put up.
435
00:19:38,740 --> 00:19:38,980
that David McBride had put up.
It was clear
he had significant inside knowledge,
436
00:19:38,980 --> 00:19:42,580
It was clear
he had significant inside knowledge,
437
00:19:42,580 --> 00:19:42,820
It was clear
significant experience in this field
438
00:19:42,820 --> 00:19:45,060
significant experience in this field
439
00:19:45,060 --> 00:19:47,420
and, you know,
quite obviously had a gripe,
440
00:19:47,420 --> 00:19:50,220
and, you know, people
who have gripes will talk to you.
441
00:19:50,220 --> 00:19:52,500
So, that's just like
'ding, ding, ding!' for a journalist?
442
00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:52,740
So, that's just like
Absolutely, yeah.
443
00:19:52,740 --> 00:19:53,740
Absolutely, yeah.
444
00:19:53,740 --> 00:19:56,340
And then it was, you know,
a case of, yeah,
445
00:19:56,340 --> 00:20:02,100
how can I sit down with this guy
and have a more extended chat?
446
00:20:02,100 --> 00:20:03,820
And we had a long talk about it
447
00:20:03,820 --> 00:20:05,740
and I was prepared
to give them secret documents.
448
00:20:05,740 --> 00:20:06,020
In doing so
I was risking jail myself.
and I was prepared
to give them secret documents.
449
00:20:06,020 --> 00:20:08,300
In doing so
I was risking jail myself.
450
00:20:08,300 --> 00:20:10,020
I already knew that. And that's
how much I believed in it.
451
00:20:10,020 --> 00:20:10,260
I already knew that. And that's
I knew right from the beginning.
452
00:20:10,260 --> 00:20:11,860
I knew right from the beginning.
453
00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:19,620
McBride handed over
his original complaint
454
00:20:19,620 --> 00:20:23,540
along with thousands of pages
of supporting documents,
455
00:20:23,540 --> 00:20:28,100
including classified investigations
into SAS soldiers.
456
00:20:28,980 --> 00:20:32,100
What was the story
that David McBride wanted told?
457
00:20:32,100 --> 00:20:34,860
He really simply
wanted the story to say
458
00:20:34,860 --> 00:20:38,100
that the special forces
in Afghanistan
459
00:20:38,100 --> 00:20:41,500
were being unfairly targeted
and unfairly scrutinised
460
00:20:41,500 --> 00:20:44,460
and investigated when they
shouldn't have been investigated.
461
00:20:44,460 --> 00:20:46,220
So, he's starting over here
462
00:20:46,220 --> 00:20:48,180
saying that SAS troops
463
00:20:48,180 --> 00:20:51,820
are being unfairly targeted
and over-investigated.
464
00:20:51,820 --> 00:20:55,380
How different then is the story
that you ended up pursuing?
465
00:20:55,380 --> 00:20:57,900
Well, it was diametrically opposed,
wasn't it?
466
00:20:57,900 --> 00:20:59,460
The more I looked into it,
I couldn't conceive
467
00:20:59,460 --> 00:21:01,540
of how anyone would claim
that these guys
468
00:21:01,540 --> 00:21:04,540
were being too tightly monitored.
469
00:21:04,540 --> 00:21:07,220
It was precisely the opposite.
470
00:21:08,540 --> 00:21:10,700
I mean,
the picture that became clear
471
00:21:10,700 --> 00:21:13,300
was just one
of Afghanistan being a black hole
472
00:21:13,300 --> 00:21:13,540
was just one
in which events occurred.
473
00:21:13,540 --> 00:21:15,260
in which events occurred.
474
00:21:15,260 --> 00:21:18,100
What happened out in the field
stayed out in the field.
475
00:21:19,620 --> 00:21:22,460
And I realised
that it was a big story.
476
00:21:22,460 --> 00:21:27,780
I was also aware there had been very
little or next to nothing reported
477
00:21:27,780 --> 00:21:31,100
about allegations of war crimes
to that date.
478
00:21:31,100 --> 00:21:34,900
Did you speak to David McBride before
the Afghan Files were published?
479
00:21:34,900 --> 00:21:38,260
I did, I rang David
and his response was simply,
480
00:21:38,260 --> 00:21:38,500
I did, I rang David
"You do what you've got to do,"
481
00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:39,900
"You do what you've got to do,"
482
00:21:39,900 --> 00:21:42,060
and he hung up.
483
00:21:42,060 --> 00:21:42,300
And then the Afghan Files
and he hung up.
484
00:21:42,300 --> 00:21:45,420
And then the Afghan Files
were published.
485
00:21:45,420 --> 00:21:45,660
And then the Afghan Files
(GUNFIRE)
486
00:21:45,660 --> 00:21:46,420
(GUNFIRE)
487
00:21:46,420 --> 00:21:48,620
VOICEOVER: Tonight we reveal
serious allegations
488
00:21:48,620 --> 00:21:52,380
that Australian soldiers
may have committed unlawful killings
489
00:21:52,380 --> 00:21:54,180
during Australia's longest war.
490
00:21:54,180 --> 00:21:57,700
7:30 has spoken to 10 other
former and current soldiers.
491
00:21:57,700 --> 00:21:59,740
They agreed
that a culture of recklessness
492
00:21:59,740 --> 00:22:02,940
infected some elements
of special forces in Afghanistan
493
00:22:02,940 --> 00:22:05,740
around who was a legitimate target
and who wasn't.
494
00:22:09,300 --> 00:22:11,860
I remember the exact moment
I saw it,
495
00:22:11,860 --> 00:22:14,100
and I was about to get on a plane
to Sydney,
496
00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:15,540
and I was like, "Uh-oh."
497
00:22:15,540 --> 00:22:18,980
And I knew it was the documents
that I'd given them,
498
00:22:18,980 --> 00:22:19,220
And I knew it was the documents
and I knew I was in the frame.
499
00:22:19,220 --> 00:22:20,660
and I knew I was in the frame.
500
00:22:24,140 --> 00:22:28,780
The ADF had discharged McBride
six months earlier.
501
00:22:28,780 --> 00:22:29,020
The ADF had discharged McBride
When the story broke
502
00:22:29,020 --> 00:22:30,420
When the story broke
503
00:22:30,420 --> 00:22:34,820
they immediately referred the leak
to the Australian Federal Police,
504
00:22:34,820 --> 00:22:37,180
which launched an investigation.
505
00:22:38,260 --> 00:22:42,940
What were you prepared to do
to protect McBride as a source?
506
00:22:42,940 --> 00:22:46,740
I would have done anything,
I mean anything required.
507
00:22:46,740 --> 00:22:48,780
Go to jail?
Yeah, absolutely.
508
00:22:48,780 --> 00:22:49,060
You can't work as a journalist
I don't think
Go to jail?
Yeah, absolutely.
509
00:22:49,060 --> 00:22:50,700
You can't work as a journalist
I don't think
510
00:22:50,700 --> 00:22:53,700
if you're not willing
to go to the absolute lengths,
511
00:22:53,700 --> 00:22:54,860
you know, the ends of the earth
512
00:22:54,860 --> 00:22:56,420
to protect a source.
513
00:23:07,540 --> 00:23:09,500
The police were closing in.
514
00:23:09,500 --> 00:23:09,740
McBride made the decision
The police were closing in.
515
00:23:09,740 --> 00:23:12,660
McBride made the decision
to flee to Spain,
516
00:23:12,660 --> 00:23:12,900
McBride made the decision
leaving behind his young family.
517
00:23:12,900 --> 00:23:15,380
leaving behind his young family.
518
00:23:24,940 --> 00:23:27,100
After a year in hiding
519
00:23:27,100 --> 00:23:28,460
he risked it all,
520
00:23:28,460 --> 00:23:32,980
returning to Australia
for a father-daughter school dance.
521
00:23:34,820 --> 00:23:38,860
(EAGLE ROCK BY DADDY COOL PLAYS)
522
00:23:41,220 --> 00:23:44,740
JAMES MCBRIDE: I'm dancing with
a couple of my friends in the crowd,
523
00:23:44,740 --> 00:23:47,940
and he comes up behind me,
and I just turn around...
524
00:23:49,340 --> 00:23:50,820
..and I was in shock.
525
00:23:50,820 --> 00:23:54,380
I put my hands over my mouth
and we hug and it was...
526
00:23:56,220 --> 00:23:57,980
..one of the best nights ever,
actually.
527
00:23:57,980 --> 00:23:58,220
..one of the best nights ever,
It was really, really nice.
528
00:23:58,220 --> 00:24:01,220
It was really, really nice.
529
00:24:02,180 --> 00:24:06,020
He did not want to let his daughter
down, whatever the cost.
530
00:24:06,020 --> 00:24:06,300
And that's what then triggered
the chain of events once he got back
He did not want to let his daughter
down, whatever the cost.
531
00:24:06,300 --> 00:24:10,900
And that's what then triggered
the chain of events once he got back
532
00:24:10,900 --> 00:24:11,140
And that's what then triggered
and I received the call
533
00:24:11,140 --> 00:24:12,740
and I received the call
534
00:24:12,740 --> 00:24:12,940
and I received the call
that he'd been arrested.
535
00:24:12,940 --> 00:24:14,900
that he'd been arrested.
536
00:24:17,100 --> 00:24:19,300
In a full confession to police
537
00:24:19,300 --> 00:24:25,300
McBride admitted giving classified
documents to Dan Oakes and the ABC.
538
00:24:26,540 --> 00:24:28,020
DAN OAKES: We received an email
539
00:24:28,020 --> 00:24:30,500
saying essentially,
"This is the Federal Police.
540
00:24:30,500 --> 00:24:32,140
"You're a suspect in a crime."
541
00:24:32,140 --> 00:24:33,860
I guess seeking our cooperation
542
00:24:33,860 --> 00:24:34,100
and asking if we would search
I guess seeking our cooperation
543
00:24:34,100 --> 00:24:36,980
and asking if we would search
our own systems
544
00:24:36,980 --> 00:24:40,140
for documents
that they were looking for.
545
00:24:40,140 --> 00:24:43,180
And then, you know,
I guess eventually
546
00:24:43,180 --> 00:24:46,260
they realised they were gonna have
to come in through the front door
547
00:24:46,260 --> 00:24:48,940
and search for it themselves.
548
00:24:48,940 --> 00:24:52,580
(BEEPING)
549
00:24:55,700 --> 00:24:59,980
So, what we'd be looking
for firstly is secure communications
550
00:24:59,980 --> 00:25:06,700
between Mr McBride and Mr Oakes
concerning military information.
551
00:25:09,300 --> 00:25:10,860
My first reaction was,
552
00:25:10,860 --> 00:25:11,100
"What are they gonna find
My first reaction was,
553
00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:14,380
"What are they gonna find
and what are they gonna do with it?"
554
00:25:15,340 --> 00:25:20,980
The AFP did not find
any secret documents at the ABC.
555
00:25:20,980 --> 00:25:21,220
The AFP did not find
It was a massive step.
556
00:25:21,220 --> 00:25:23,460
It was a massive step.
557
00:25:23,460 --> 00:25:27,420
I don't think it had been
done in Australia before.
558
00:25:27,420 --> 00:25:30,140
I mean, it gets to the heart of
all those big questions, obviously,
559
00:25:30,140 --> 00:25:32,300
about media freedom
and national security
560
00:25:32,300 --> 00:25:32,540
about media freedom
and the treatment of whistleblowers.
561
00:25:32,540 --> 00:25:34,780
and the treatment of whistleblowers.
562
00:25:36,180 --> 00:25:38,660
Prosecutors ultimately decided
563
00:25:38,660 --> 00:25:42,380
charging Dan Oakes
was not in the public interest.
564
00:25:42,380 --> 00:25:46,940
They persisted
with the case against David McBride.
565
00:25:46,940 --> 00:25:50,180
I was confronted with the prospect
that I was gonna walk away scot-free
566
00:25:50,180 --> 00:25:50,420
I was confronted with the prospect
and David was gonna be prosecuted,
567
00:25:50,420 --> 00:25:52,180
and David was gonna be prosecuted,
568
00:25:52,180 --> 00:25:56,060
and for me that was really, really
difficult to deal with,
569
00:25:56,060 --> 00:25:58,500
it had a substantial effect on me.
570
00:26:04,580 --> 00:26:09,380
Oakes and McBride haven't spoken
since the stories were published.
571
00:26:10,340 --> 00:26:15,220
McBride was unhappy with
the way the ABC used the documents.
572
00:26:17,500 --> 00:26:19,220
But by 2020
573
00:26:19,220 --> 00:26:24,380
his legal team was publicly crediting
him with exposing war crimes.
574
00:26:27,460 --> 00:26:29,220
(WHISTLES BLOW)
575
00:26:29,220 --> 00:26:31,140
SUPPORTER: (ON MIC) How about
we all join them on the stage
576
00:26:31,140 --> 00:26:31,380
SUPPORTER: (ON MIC) How about
for a photo with our whistles
577
00:26:31,380 --> 00:26:32,860
for a photo with our whistles
578
00:26:32,860 --> 00:26:33,100
and the three whistleblowers
for a photo with our whistles
579
00:26:33,100 --> 00:26:34,540
and the three whistleblowers
at the front?
580
00:26:34,540 --> 00:26:38,220
It's a narrative that media,
politicians and human rights groups
581
00:26:38,220 --> 00:26:38,460
It's a narrative that media,
have since run with.
582
00:26:38,460 --> 00:26:39,820
have since run with.
583
00:26:39,820 --> 00:26:40,060
SUPPORTER: Let's all do this
have since run with.
584
00:26:40,060 --> 00:26:43,220
SUPPORTER: Let's all do this
tomorrow at the court for Dave!
585
00:26:43,220 --> 00:26:43,460
SUPPORTER: Let's all do this
(CHEERING, WHISTLES BLOW)
586
00:26:43,460 --> 00:26:44,420
(CHEERING, WHISTLES BLOW)
587
00:26:44,420 --> 00:26:47,860
DAN OAKES: They've adopted him
as a whistleblower and a martyr,
588
00:26:47,860 --> 00:26:51,340
and, so, I wouldn't say
it's entirely down to him,
589
00:26:51,340 --> 00:26:53,180
but certainly the narrative
that's being portrayed
590
00:26:53,180 --> 00:26:53,420
but certainly the narrative
is not 100% correct.
591
00:26:53,420 --> 00:26:55,660
is not 100% correct.
592
00:26:55,660 --> 00:26:58,140
He never at any point, I believe,
593
00:26:58,140 --> 00:27:02,580
mentioned war crimes or showed
any desire to uncover war crimes
594
00:27:02,580 --> 00:27:04,900
or have people punished
for war crimes.
595
00:27:04,900 --> 00:27:05,140
or have people punished
Stand there and think of nothing.
596
00:27:05,140 --> 00:27:07,700
Stand there and think of nothing.
597
00:27:08,660 --> 00:27:11,620
Do you think that he does deserve
the public support?
598
00:27:11,620 --> 00:27:13,580
MARK DAVIS: Oh, no, he does
deserve it. I've got no question.
599
00:27:13,580 --> 00:27:13,820
MARK DAVIS: Oh, no, he does
I've got no question about David,
600
00:27:13,820 --> 00:27:15,460
I've got no question about David,
601
00:27:15,460 --> 00:27:17,860
that he made
a significant difference
602
00:27:17,860 --> 00:27:20,380
in revealing the behaviour
of Australian forces.
603
00:27:20,380 --> 00:27:23,020
He didn't mean to, though.
That wasn't his intention.
604
00:27:23,020 --> 00:27:23,260
He didn't mean to, though.
I don't think that's correct.
605
00:27:23,260 --> 00:27:24,580
I don't think that's correct.
606
00:27:24,580 --> 00:27:24,780
It's apparent within the material,
I don't think that's correct.
607
00:27:24,780 --> 00:27:29,220
It's apparent within the material,
608
00:27:29,220 --> 00:27:29,460
It's apparent within the material,
by the virtue of giving it,
by the act of giving it,
609
00:27:29,460 --> 00:27:31,500
by the virtue of giving it,
by the act of giving it,
610
00:27:31,500 --> 00:27:33,060
he wants someone
to do something with it.
611
00:27:33,060 --> 00:27:33,300
he wants someone
And it's exactly what happened.
612
00:27:33,300 --> 00:27:34,540
And it's exactly what happened.
613
00:27:34,540 --> 00:27:36,380
So, there's a duality to McBride.
614
00:27:36,380 --> 00:27:36,620
He's defending soldiers who are
So, there's a duality to McBride.
615
00:27:36,620 --> 00:27:41,500
He's defending soldiers who are
improperly accused of war crimes.
616
00:27:41,500 --> 00:27:43,380
What's wrong with THAT?
I mean, it's a good thing.
617
00:27:43,380 --> 00:27:43,620
What's wrong with THAT?
He should be proud of it.
618
00:27:43,620 --> 00:27:44,860
He should be proud of it.
619
00:27:44,860 --> 00:27:46,860
I'd act for him
if that's all he did.
620
00:27:49,300 --> 00:27:52,460
My jury whisperer
says don't wear a tie.
621
00:27:52,460 --> 00:27:52,700
My jury whisperer
(CHUCKLES)
622
00:27:52,700 --> 00:27:53,740
(CHUCKLES)
623
00:27:53,740 --> 00:27:53,980
These are my suits
(CHUCKLES)
624
00:27:53,980 --> 00:27:56,380
These are my suits
to win the jury over.
625
00:27:56,380 --> 00:27:56,620
These are my suits
One on one day, one the other day.
626
00:27:56,620 --> 00:27:59,460
One on one day, one the other day.
627
00:27:59,460 --> 00:28:01,620
A few days out from his trial,
628
00:28:01,620 --> 00:28:04,860
McBride is packing his bags
for Canberra.
629
00:28:04,860 --> 00:28:06,340
These are socks from the kids.
630
00:28:06,340 --> 00:28:08,500
Ex-wife, Sarah, is helping him.
631
00:28:08,500 --> 00:28:10,540
You've gotta look like the everyman.
632
00:28:10,540 --> 00:28:12,700
but if you're gonna go down,
633
00:28:12,700 --> 00:28:12,940
you may as well
but if you're gonna go down,
634
00:28:12,940 --> 00:28:15,220
you may as well
go down looking good, I guess.
635
00:28:15,220 --> 00:28:17,860
Looks like Sarah
is gonna be repacking a lot of this.
636
00:28:17,860 --> 00:28:20,620
Yeah, she's gonna do it again.
She's gonna do it properly.
637
00:28:20,620 --> 00:28:23,540
I'm very, very, very grateful
to have her.
638
00:28:23,540 --> 00:28:25,780
Otherwise I would not be here.
639
00:28:25,780 --> 00:28:29,060
I love you very much.
No comments right now!
640
00:28:39,100 --> 00:28:40,820
Alright, buddy, you're coming.
641
00:28:40,820 --> 00:28:44,700
In court he'll be supported
by his assistance dog, Jake.
642
00:28:44,700 --> 00:28:44,940
In court he'll be supported
In you go.
643
00:28:44,940 --> 00:28:46,220
In you go.
644
00:28:46,220 --> 00:28:49,580
McBride is diagnosed with PTSD.
645
00:28:50,900 --> 00:28:52,100
OK!
646
00:28:52,100 --> 00:28:53,940
Have you got everything?
647
00:28:53,940 --> 00:28:57,740
I'll bring it with me
if Jake's ready to go. Alright.
648
00:28:57,740 --> 00:28:59,140
Aw, OK.
Thank you.
649
00:28:59,140 --> 00:29:01,220
See you on Sunday. OK.
(SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)
650
00:29:10,180 --> 00:29:13,220
(BAGPIPES PLAY)
651
00:29:17,580 --> 00:29:20,620
(PLAYS TRADITIONAL MELODY)
652
00:29:27,900 --> 00:29:29,060
(VEHICLE DOORS SHUT)
653
00:29:29,060 --> 00:29:31,700
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
654
00:29:31,700 --> 00:29:33,180
Where are we going?
655
00:29:33,180 --> 00:29:35,140
(SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)
656
00:29:35,140 --> 00:29:35,380
On the first day
(SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)
657
00:29:35,380 --> 00:29:38,140
On the first day
of McBride's criminal trial
658
00:29:38,140 --> 00:29:41,860
his supporters
are gathering outside court.
659
00:29:42,820 --> 00:29:44,660
Some of his biggest backers
660
00:29:44,660 --> 00:29:44,900
are high-profile whistleblowers
Some of his biggest backers
661
00:29:44,900 --> 00:29:47,660
are high-profile whistleblowers
themselves
662
00:29:47,660 --> 00:29:50,940
who exposed corruption
and wrongdoing.
663
00:29:53,420 --> 00:29:55,940
TROY STOLZ:
While I've still got a breath
664
00:29:55,940 --> 00:29:58,580
and still got
my legs working
665
00:29:58,580 --> 00:30:00,700
I'm gonna keep
supporting David.
666
00:30:00,700 --> 00:30:00,940
I'm gonna keep
(CHEERING)
667
00:30:00,940 --> 00:30:02,300
(CHEERING)
668
00:30:02,300 --> 00:30:02,540
They've been lobbying
(CHEERING)
669
00:30:02,540 --> 00:30:05,060
They've been lobbying
the federal government
670
00:30:05,060 --> 00:30:05,300
They've been lobbying
to stop McBride's prosecution,
671
00:30:05,300 --> 00:30:07,620
to stop McBride's prosecution,
672
00:30:07,620 --> 00:30:10,700
which has cost taxpayers millions.
673
00:30:11,660 --> 00:30:13,300
(CHEERING)
674
00:30:13,300 --> 00:30:16,820
McBride arrives to a hero's welcome.
675
00:30:16,820 --> 00:30:19,300
(WHISTLES BLOW)
Thank you, everybody!
676
00:30:19,300 --> 00:30:22,580
(CHEERING)
Thank you, everybody!
677
00:30:22,580 --> 00:30:26,260
(CHEERING, WHISTLES BLOW)
678
00:30:26,260 --> 00:30:32,180
Inside he'll face prosecutors who
deny he's a genuine whistleblower.
679
00:30:33,140 --> 00:30:36,100
Thank you, everybody.
Thank you, everybody.
680
00:30:36,100 --> 00:30:37,500
SECURITY: Away from the door,
please!
681
00:30:37,500 --> 00:30:37,740
SECURITY: Away from the door,
You are part of my family.
682
00:30:37,740 --> 00:30:39,500
You are part of my family.
683
00:30:39,500 --> 00:30:42,540
MARK DAVIS: Quick, David, quick.
We've got a minute, mate.
684
00:30:42,540 --> 00:30:46,140
Today I serve my country.
685
00:30:46,140 --> 00:30:50,300
(CHEERING, WHISTLES BLOW)
686
00:30:53,220 --> 00:30:58,100
And the question I have for you,
Anthony Albanese,
687
00:30:58,100 --> 00:30:59,820
is who do you serve?
688
00:30:59,820 --> 00:31:07,260
(CHEERING, WHISTLES BLOW)
689
00:31:07,260 --> 00:31:08,860
This way.
690
00:31:11,220 --> 00:31:13,540
Camera back.
691
00:31:13,540 --> 00:31:15,780
No camera. Go away.
692
00:31:15,780 --> 00:31:18,380
SECURITY: Sir, you need to go back.
Go away.
693
00:31:19,660 --> 00:31:22,140
(WHISTLES BLOW)
694
00:31:22,140 --> 00:31:24,020
The case gets underway.
695
00:31:24,980 --> 00:31:28,500
The judge hears legal argument
on a pivotal issue -
696
00:31:28,500 --> 00:31:28,740
The judge hears legal argument
the definition of a soldier's duty.
697
00:31:28,740 --> 00:31:31,020
the definition of a soldier's duty.
698
00:31:31,020 --> 00:31:34,940
Prosecutors say
it's about obeying orders.
699
00:31:34,940 --> 00:31:38,660
McBride's defence
says soldiers have a higher duty
700
00:31:38,660 --> 00:31:41,780
to serve
Australia's national interest.
701
00:31:43,780 --> 00:31:45,980
Mark, can we grab you for a sec?
702
00:31:45,980 --> 00:31:50,940
There seems to be a lot
riding on this argument of duty.
703
00:31:50,940 --> 00:31:54,820
Is there any point in the Crown
continuing if you win the argument?
704
00:31:54,820 --> 00:31:55,060
Is there any point in the Crown
Well, it's a...it's a...
705
00:31:55,060 --> 00:31:57,300
Well, it's a...it's a...
706
00:31:57,300 --> 00:31:59,060
..it's a central issue.
707
00:31:59,060 --> 00:32:01,060
If we win it,
708
00:32:01,060 --> 00:32:02,460
well, we'll be pretty happy.
709
00:32:02,460 --> 00:32:06,340
I mean, it's a very difficult
mountain for us to climb.
710
00:32:06,340 --> 00:32:11,660
A lot is riding on the failure
or success of today's argument.
711
00:32:11,660 --> 00:32:12,860
Thank you.
OK.
712
00:32:37,220 --> 00:32:40,220
After two days of legal argument
713
00:32:40,220 --> 00:32:44,460
it's finally D-day
for the definition of duty.
714
00:32:47,260 --> 00:32:52,980
Either way, I think the judge will
be against us on the duty question.
715
00:32:52,980 --> 00:32:55,620
What kind of toll
is this taking on you personally
716
00:32:55,620 --> 00:32:55,860
What kind of toll
at this stage of things?
717
00:32:55,860 --> 00:32:57,700
at this stage of things?
718
00:32:57,700 --> 00:33:00,220
I'm pretty strong.
719
00:33:00,220 --> 00:33:02,460
It's just about killed me,
720
00:33:02,460 --> 00:33:06,140
and there'd be plenty of people
who wouldn't survive this.
721
00:33:06,140 --> 00:33:12,460
If I ended up being treated
as a traitor and a pariah,
722
00:33:12,460 --> 00:33:16,060
it would be really effing hard
for me to go on, I have to say.
723
00:33:16,060 --> 00:33:16,300
it would be really effing hard
Today I feel alright.
724
00:33:16,300 --> 00:33:17,540
Today I feel alright.
725
00:33:17,540 --> 00:33:21,300
I'm looking forward
to tell my full story.
726
00:33:21,300 --> 00:33:24,460
But there are times
when I am really close.
727
00:33:25,420 --> 00:33:28,660
That's... That's a lot to...
728
00:33:28,660 --> 00:33:32,020
..to say out loud at this point.
729
00:33:32,020 --> 00:33:32,820
Yeah.
730
00:33:32,820 --> 00:33:34,300
But you've won my confidence,
731
00:33:34,300 --> 00:33:36,420
and, you know,
I don't mind sharing that with you.
732
00:33:36,420 --> 00:33:39,420
But yeah, no, I...
I was close the other night.
733
00:33:40,380 --> 00:33:42,020
Alright. OK.
Thank you.
734
00:33:57,820 --> 00:34:03,660
Inside, Justice David Mossop
hands down his decision.
735
00:34:03,660 --> 00:34:06,420
(WHISTLES BLOW)
736
00:34:06,420 --> 00:34:07,900
Not much happened.
737
00:34:07,900 --> 00:34:10,020
So, just explain to me
what happened in there?
738
00:34:10,020 --> 00:34:12,380
Well, the judge went through
all our arguments yesterday
739
00:34:12,380 --> 00:34:12,620
Well, the judge went through
to say what does duty mean?
740
00:34:12,620 --> 00:34:14,100
to say what does duty mean?
741
00:34:14,100 --> 00:34:15,340
And he downed the ball
742
00:34:15,340 --> 00:34:21,260
and he said duty just means to do
what you're told by your superiors.
743
00:34:21,260 --> 00:34:23,820
There's no exceptions,
there's no defence.
744
00:34:27,380 --> 00:34:30,540
His barristers have one last shot.
745
00:34:30,540 --> 00:34:35,780
They ask for leave to appeal
the judge's decision the next day.
746
00:34:35,780 --> 00:34:38,020
But there's a bigger obstacle
747
00:34:38,020 --> 00:34:39,540
to McBride's defence,
748
00:34:39,540 --> 00:34:42,060
and it's playing out in secret
749
00:34:42,060 --> 00:34:42,260
and it's playing out in secret
under national security laws.
750
00:34:42,260 --> 00:34:44,860
under national security laws.
751
00:34:45,940 --> 00:34:48,420
Right, so,
they've just closed the court.
752
00:34:48,420 --> 00:34:52,060
So, now there's a secret hearing
taking place upstairs,
753
00:34:52,060 --> 00:34:57,700
and all we know is that it relates
to sensitive intelligence information
754
00:34:57,700 --> 00:34:57,940
and all we know is that it relates
that involves Australia's allies.
755
00:34:57,940 --> 00:35:00,500
that involves Australia's allies.
756
00:35:02,180 --> 00:35:04,380
It's a unique situation.
757
00:35:04,380 --> 00:35:07,540
The federal government
is an extra party in court
758
00:35:07,540 --> 00:35:07,780
The federal government
with its own legal team.
759
00:35:07,780 --> 00:35:10,020
with its own legal team.
760
00:35:10,900 --> 00:35:14,260
They want to remove
certain documents from the trial
761
00:35:14,260 --> 00:35:16,260
that McBride wants for his defence,
762
00:35:16,260 --> 00:35:20,180
claiming it's in the public interest
to withhold the information.
763
00:35:21,980 --> 00:35:25,020
MARK DAVIS: It's a secrecy provision
where the government says,
764
00:35:25,020 --> 00:35:27,500
"You're not gonna reveal
that document in a courtroom."
765
00:35:27,500 --> 00:35:30,940
It's walking in, thief in the night,
and walking out.
766
00:35:35,540 --> 00:35:38,300
Have you seen him? Is he here?
767
00:35:48,060 --> 00:35:49,540
The following day
768
00:35:49,540 --> 00:35:51,740
things go from bad to worse.
769
00:35:56,860 --> 00:35:59,660
Are you alright, David?
Yeah, a bit frazzled.
770
00:36:01,420 --> 00:36:03,180
McBride loses his bid
771
00:36:03,180 --> 00:36:03,420
to appeal the judge's ruling
McBride loses his bid
772
00:36:03,420 --> 00:36:07,220
to appeal the judge's ruling
on the definition of duty.
773
00:36:08,180 --> 00:36:10,500
This means the jury will be told
774
00:36:10,500 --> 00:36:14,460
there are no exceptions
to a soldier following orders.
775
00:36:15,460 --> 00:36:17,460
Something seems to be brewing,
776
00:36:17,460 --> 00:36:20,740
the secret hearing
is still taking place upstairs,
777
00:36:20,740 --> 00:36:23,140
but David McBride
and his senior legal team
778
00:36:23,140 --> 00:36:27,020
have now left court quite suddenly
to have a meeting together.
779
00:36:27,020 --> 00:36:30,260
It seems like an emergency briefing
of some kind,
780
00:36:30,260 --> 00:36:30,500
It seems like an emergency briefing
which suggests that there could be
781
00:36:30,500 --> 00:36:32,140
which suggests that there could be
782
00:36:32,140 --> 00:36:32,380
a dramatic turn of events
which suggests that there could be
783
00:36:32,380 --> 00:36:34,860
a dramatic turn of events
this afternoon.
784
00:36:35,820 --> 00:36:38,860
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
785
00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:45,700
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
786
00:36:45,700 --> 00:36:49,100
McBride's defence is in crisis.
787
00:36:50,500 --> 00:36:53,620
Mark Davis says
national security laws
788
00:36:53,620 --> 00:36:56,140
are already hampering their defence,
789
00:36:56,140 --> 00:37:00,740
but if the government has its way,
McBride can only lose.
790
00:37:00,740 --> 00:37:00,980
but if the government has its way,
It is fatal to a fair trial.
791
00:37:00,980 --> 00:37:02,900
It is fatal to a fair trial.
792
00:37:02,900 --> 00:37:04,500
He has NO chance.
793
00:37:04,500 --> 00:37:05,500
No chance!
794
00:37:05,500 --> 00:37:07,260
If they can walk off
with the evidence,
795
00:37:07,260 --> 00:37:09,220
what chance
can you have before a jury?
796
00:37:11,060 --> 00:37:13,460
DAVID MCBRIDE: I love you so much.
Georgie's the best hugger.
797
00:37:13,460 --> 00:37:13,700
DAVID MCBRIDE: I love you so much.
Even as a little one-year-old
798
00:37:13,700 --> 00:37:15,260
Even as a little one-year-old
799
00:37:15,260 --> 00:37:17,340
she used to come in
and give me hugs.
800
00:37:19,180 --> 00:37:24,100
The next morning, McBride's lawyers
ask to see him urgently.
801
00:37:24,100 --> 00:37:24,340
The next morning, McBride's lawyers
Ah.
802
00:37:24,340 --> 00:37:25,700
Ah.
803
00:37:26,660 --> 00:37:29,180
Thank you for everything.
804
00:37:29,180 --> 00:37:31,900
OK, see you later.
805
00:37:35,620 --> 00:37:37,860
They couldn't say exactly what
on the phone,
806
00:37:37,860 --> 00:37:42,140
but it sounds like
we're gonna talk about a plea deal.
807
00:37:42,140 --> 00:37:44,860
I've always said
I will never give up on this
808
00:37:44,860 --> 00:37:45,100
I've always said
and I will never plead guilty.
809
00:37:45,100 --> 00:37:47,020
and I will never plead guilty.
810
00:37:47,020 --> 00:37:47,260
It may be
and I will never plead guilty.
811
00:37:47,260 --> 00:37:49,500
It may be
that that's what I have to do -
812
00:37:49,500 --> 00:37:51,020
plead guilty, hold my head up high
813
00:37:51,020 --> 00:37:54,020
and say, "Well, if that's the law,
that's the law."
814
00:37:58,900 --> 00:38:05,220
McBride has waited five years
to defend himself in front of a jury.
815
00:38:06,860 --> 00:38:08,540
Come on.
816
00:38:13,420 --> 00:38:18,780
It could all be about to end
before he even takes the stand.
817
00:38:18,780 --> 00:38:19,020
It could all be about to end
Here he is. Alright, boss?
818
00:38:19,020 --> 00:38:20,900
Here he is. Alright, boss?
819
00:38:48,540 --> 00:38:49,660
(SIGHS)
820
00:38:50,620 --> 00:38:54,340
Could be the last decent lunch
for a while.
821
00:38:55,300 --> 00:38:57,980
McBride has made up his mind -
822
00:38:57,980 --> 00:39:00,460
he's going to plead guilty.
823
00:39:00,460 --> 00:39:02,340
I brought you a jacket and a shirt,
824
00:39:02,340 --> 00:39:05,140
but it's up in the chambers.
That's good. Thank you.
825
00:39:05,140 --> 00:39:10,540
With a few minutes to spare
before court, he sits down with us.
826
00:39:10,540 --> 00:39:10,780
With a few minutes to spare
It's just an emotional time.
827
00:39:10,780 --> 00:39:12,020
It's just an emotional time.
828
00:39:12,020 --> 00:39:13,780
I said even if I'd won the case,
829
00:39:13,780 --> 00:39:18,220
the first thing I'd want to is cry.
830
00:39:18,220 --> 00:39:21,620
You hold the emotions down
for as long as you possibly can,
831
00:39:21,620 --> 00:39:25,460
and whatever happens, whenever you
change from one phase to another,
832
00:39:25,460 --> 00:39:25,700
and whatever happens, whenever you
the emotion comes out,
833
00:39:25,700 --> 00:39:26,940
the emotion comes out,
834
00:39:26,940 --> 00:39:27,180
and then you sleep and you reset
the emotion comes out,
835
00:39:27,180 --> 00:39:30,100
and then you sleep and you reset
and you get charged
836
00:39:30,100 --> 00:39:34,100
and wake up
and start on the next phase.
837
00:39:34,100 --> 00:39:36,180
And now, speaking of which,
I've got to go across.
838
00:39:36,180 --> 00:39:36,420
And now, speaking of which,
Yes, Jake!
839
00:39:36,420 --> 00:39:37,260
Yes, Jake!
840
00:39:38,220 --> 00:39:39,700
Thanks, David.
Thank you.
841
00:39:39,700 --> 00:39:39,940
Thanks, David.
We'll see you up there.
842
00:39:39,940 --> 00:39:41,220
We'll see you up there.
843
00:39:46,260 --> 00:39:48,260
In a deal with prosecutors,
844
00:39:48,260 --> 00:39:51,540
McBride pleads guilty
to one charge of stealing
845
00:39:51,540 --> 00:39:57,060
and two charges of unlawfully
sharing secret military information.
846
00:39:57,060 --> 00:39:57,300
and two charges of unlawfully
(WHISTLES BLOW)
847
00:39:57,300 --> 00:39:58,060
(WHISTLES BLOW)
848
00:39:58,060 --> 00:39:58,300
SUPPORTER: (ON MIC)
(WHISTLES BLOW)
849
00:39:58,300 --> 00:40:00,540
SUPPORTER: (ON MIC)
Mark Davis and David McBride.
850
00:40:00,540 --> 00:40:00,780
SUPPORTER: (ON MIC)
(CHEERING, WHISTLES BLOW)
851
00:40:00,780 --> 00:40:02,500
(CHEERING, WHISTLES BLOW)
852
00:40:02,500 --> 00:40:05,820
The judge upholds
the federal government's bid
853
00:40:05,820 --> 00:40:08,500
to remove evidence from his defence.
854
00:40:09,460 --> 00:40:12,220
An extra burden today
855
00:40:12,220 --> 00:40:14,380
was that the Crown, the government,
856
00:40:14,380 --> 00:40:14,620
was given authority
was that the Crown, the government,
857
00:40:14,620 --> 00:40:17,420
was given authority
to bundle up evidence
858
00:40:17,420 --> 00:40:17,660
was given authority
and run out the back door with it.
859
00:40:17,660 --> 00:40:19,900
and run out the back door with it.
860
00:40:20,780 --> 00:40:22,980
They've taken it from us.
861
00:40:22,980 --> 00:40:25,220
He's no longer able
to put it before a jury.
862
00:40:25,220 --> 00:40:26,620
That is a fatal blow.
863
00:40:26,620 --> 00:40:28,300
It makes it impossible
864
00:40:28,300 --> 00:40:32,660
for us realistically to go to trial.
865
00:40:32,660 --> 00:40:34,620
I'm not giving up hope.
866
00:40:34,620 --> 00:40:36,100
He's done the right thing.
867
00:40:36,100 --> 00:40:38,500
I've said that from the beginning.
868
00:40:38,500 --> 00:40:41,180
Truth and justice will prevail.
869
00:40:41,180 --> 00:40:45,180
And I'm incredibly proud of him,
as are his two girls.
870
00:40:45,180 --> 00:40:45,420
And I'm incredibly proud of him,
(CHEERING, APPLAUSE)
871
00:40:45,420 --> 00:40:49,780
(CHEERING, APPLAUSE)
872
00:40:49,780 --> 00:40:54,420
McBride is allowed out on bail
until sentencing.
873
00:41:02,700 --> 00:41:04,740
SARAH MCBRIDE:
I will never back down
874
00:41:04,740 --> 00:41:09,740
from believing in that this
was the right thing for him to do.
875
00:41:28,980 --> 00:41:32,740
McBride is fighting
to keep his name in the headlines.
876
00:41:34,900 --> 00:41:39,180
Today he's doing a photoshoot
for the cover of a magazine.
877
00:41:43,780 --> 00:41:46,060
DAVID MCBRIDE: You do have to have
a little bit of showmanship,
878
00:41:46,060 --> 00:41:48,260
you do have to get out there
and spruik yourself.
879
00:41:48,260 --> 00:41:50,260
Some of it works,
some of it doesn't.
880
00:41:50,260 --> 00:41:52,500
But if you want to win
you have to do it.
881
00:41:52,500 --> 00:41:54,740
Do you like the attention?
882
00:41:54,740 --> 00:42:01,300
I don't hate it, but I'm aware that
it brings enemies as well as fans.
883
00:42:02,860 --> 00:42:07,100
Not all the publicity is favourable.
884
00:42:07,100 --> 00:42:10,700
The credit he's received
for exposing war crimes
885
00:42:10,700 --> 00:42:10,940
The credit he's received
is now being scrutinised.
886
00:42:10,940 --> 00:42:12,620
is now being scrutinised.
887
00:42:14,180 --> 00:42:17,580
He was not blowing the whistle
to reveal war crimes.
888
00:42:17,580 --> 00:42:20,260
He has acknowledged
he was doing the reverse.
889
00:42:21,220 --> 00:42:23,380
DAN OAKES:
I don't derive any pleasure
890
00:42:23,380 --> 00:42:25,300
from the fact
that people are now becoming aware
891
00:42:25,300 --> 00:42:27,300
of what David McBride
was claiming
892
00:42:27,300 --> 00:42:30,100
when he first
came forward.
893
00:42:30,100 --> 00:42:33,820
I just think it's important
that the truth is told.
894
00:42:33,820 --> 00:42:37,660
All the evidence to date, evidence
that we uncovered at the ABC,
895
00:42:37,660 --> 00:42:41,060
other journalists have uncovered,
Justice Brereton uncovered,
896
00:42:41,060 --> 00:42:44,500
it's clear now
that this is a significant problem,
897
00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:47,980
that our guys over there
were insufficiently restrained
898
00:42:47,980 --> 00:42:51,060
and probably
should have been investigated more.
899
00:43:00,820 --> 00:43:06,300
Dan Oakes' reporting
has come at a great personal cost.
900
00:43:07,260 --> 00:43:10,620
I don't like it when I see
journalists becoming the story.
901
00:43:11,860 --> 00:43:14,900
I don't like it at all. And it's...
902
00:43:14,900 --> 00:43:15,140
So, it's quite awkward
I don't like it at all. And it's...
903
00:43:15,140 --> 00:43:18,580
So, it's quite awkward
sitting here discussing this.
904
00:43:20,740 --> 00:43:22,940
Look, it had a significant effect.
905
00:43:22,940 --> 00:43:26,500
It had a massive effect on me
mentally and morally
906
00:43:26,500 --> 00:43:26,740
It had a massive effect on me
and even physically.
907
00:43:26,740 --> 00:43:28,700
and even physically.
908
00:43:28,700 --> 00:43:32,180
You know, I became
quite unrecognisable
909
00:43:32,180 --> 00:43:32,420
You know, I became
as the person that I was,
910
00:43:32,420 --> 00:43:33,900
as the person that I was,
911
00:43:33,900 --> 00:43:36,620
and the people around me, really,
912
00:43:36,620 --> 00:43:39,820
they were the ones
who paid the price for that.
913
00:43:39,820 --> 00:43:42,340
$22.20.
There you go.
914
00:43:43,900 --> 00:43:47,020
What triggered that aftermath
for you?
915
00:43:47,020 --> 00:43:51,700
For me
it was always guilt and shame
916
00:43:51,700 --> 00:43:51,940
For me
about what happened to David.
917
00:43:51,940 --> 00:43:53,580
about what happened to David.
918
00:43:53,580 --> 00:43:58,100
David is the one
that's gonna pay the price for this,
919
00:43:58,100 --> 00:43:59,500
not me,
920
00:43:59,500 --> 00:44:02,700
and, yeah, I don't think
there's ever gonna be a time
921
00:44:02,700 --> 00:44:05,220
where I don't feel
some guilt and shame
922
00:44:05,220 --> 00:44:07,700
over the fact that that happened.
923
00:44:15,380 --> 00:44:19,980
(LAUGHTER, CHATTER)
924
00:44:20,940 --> 00:44:22,980
DAVID MCBRIDE: Whether
I'm a war-crimes whistleblower
925
00:44:22,980 --> 00:44:23,220
DAVID MCBRIDE: Whether
or a defence-force whistleblower,
926
00:44:23,220 --> 00:44:24,980
or a defence-force whistleblower,
927
00:44:24,980 --> 00:44:27,460
it doesn't really matter
in the sense
928
00:44:27,460 --> 00:44:30,380
that I'm someone that stood up
for what I believed in,
929
00:44:30,380 --> 00:44:32,620
and I'm prepared to go to jail
for it.
930
00:44:35,100 --> 00:44:40,420
David McBride says he's never wavered
in what he believes in.
931
00:44:43,340 --> 00:44:47,220
You have been made out
as though you exposed war crimes,
932
00:44:47,220 --> 00:44:49,740
but that actually
wasn't your intention.
933
00:44:49,740 --> 00:44:54,020
You were saying that the SAS
were being over-investigated.
934
00:44:54,020 --> 00:44:56,660
How do you respond
to that kind of criticism?
935
00:44:56,660 --> 00:44:59,380
I've always
been about the leadership.
936
00:44:59,380 --> 00:45:02,060
The war crimes
were a symptom of that,
937
00:45:02,060 --> 00:45:04,340
I think they were
a symptom of bad leadership,
938
00:45:04,340 --> 00:45:06,180
and the people in my sights
939
00:45:06,180 --> 00:45:08,420
have always been the generals.
940
00:45:08,420 --> 00:45:13,340
Certain parts of the media may have
misunderstood what I stood up for,
941
00:45:13,340 --> 00:45:13,580
Certain parts of the media may have
but if people don't understand me,
942
00:45:13,580 --> 00:45:16,340
but if people don't understand me,
943
00:45:16,340 --> 00:45:18,820
that won't kill me.
944
00:45:24,340 --> 00:45:28,620
McBride will find out his fate
later this year.
945
00:45:29,820 --> 00:45:31,340
I don't want to go to jail,
946
00:45:31,340 --> 00:45:34,700
but I'm not afraid of it in that I'm
very much focused on the mission,
947
00:45:34,700 --> 00:45:36,980
and the mission
is not to avoid jail,
948
00:45:36,980 --> 00:45:37,220
and the mission
it's not to go to jail,
949
00:45:37,220 --> 00:45:38,860
it's not to go to jail,
950
00:45:38,860 --> 00:45:41,060
it's to get change in Australia.
951
00:45:41,060 --> 00:45:45,140
Now, I will do that
whichever way I can.
952
00:45:45,140 --> 00:45:51,140
Jail may be
just a phase in that operation.
953
00:45:51,140 --> 00:45:56,340
So, you going to jail
you think might prove that point?
954
00:45:56,340 --> 00:45:57,580
Something dark inside of me
955
00:45:57,580 --> 00:46:00,740
says it's the only way
it's gonna happen.
956
00:46:05,780 --> 00:46:07,820
(THEME MUSIC PLAYS)