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(THEME MUSIC PLAYS)
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Oh, yes!
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(BABY FUSSES)
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GRACE TOBIN: Tens of thousands
of Australians turn to IVF every year
(BABY FUSSES)
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GRACE TOBIN: Tens of thousands
of Australians turn to IVF every year
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GRACE TOBIN: Tens of thousands
in the hope
of Australians turn to IVF every year
of having their own miracle baby.
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in the hope
of having their own miracle baby.
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Oh, I've wanted to be a mother
my whole life.
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The lucrative industry
behind baby-making
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The lucrative industry
can make those dreams come true.
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can make those dreams come true.
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1 in 18 births is an IVF birth.
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But when things go wrong...
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(CRIES)
It's more bad news.
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..there's not enough transparency
and accountability.
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It takes forever to get back
to the bloody starting line.
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It takes forever to get back
(CRIES)
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(CRIES)
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These are the stories, the errors
and unbelievable bungles
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that Australia's biggest fertility
companies aren't owning up to.
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How could they have used
the wrong sperm to make children?
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How many half-siblings
do you think you might have?
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So, there could be potentially
700 siblings.
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Our children's conditions
were not severe enough
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to stop the sperm from sale.
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It's just money. That's all it is.
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(LAUGHS)
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Hello. How are you?
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Now patients are coming together
and fighting back.
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ANASTASIA GUNN: I think
they've messed with the wrong women.
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People need to know
that, when things go wrong,
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this is how they treat people.
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This is the company
you're getting into bed with.
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(INSECTS CHIRP)
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In a farming shed
in far northern New South Wales
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In a farming shed
two mums work into the night.
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two mums work into the night.
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ANASTASIA GUNN: So...
Oh, yeah, those people are twins.
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They're the ones that I've messaged
and I haven't heard back from.
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This is the nerve centre
of their two-year investigation
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into one of Australia's
biggest fertility clinics.
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We are like detectives because
we're trying to find out the truth.
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Nobody's just offering up
the truth to us,
We are like detectives because
we're trying to find out the truth.
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Nobody's just offering up
the truth to us,
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Nobody's just offering up
so, we've gone looking for it.
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so, we've gone looking for it.
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so, we've gone looking for it.
Sometimes we just sit there
and do that for hours.
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Sometimes we just sit there
and do that for hours.
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Sometimes we just sit there
One of us will be on one website,
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One of us will be on one website,
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one of us will be on another,
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and then together
we put together the information.
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Anastasia and Lexie Gunn
are the mums of three boys
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Anastasia and Lexie Gunn
conceived through donor sperm.
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conceived through donor sperm.
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Just click on that.
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We'll see if it matches
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the information
that we've got about the donor.
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Most evenings
they spend hours searching for clues
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into what went wrong with
the conception of their children.
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We love our boys so deeply,
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and what we want to do is get
to the bottom of what's happened.
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How do you personally describe
what has happened to your family?
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We had IVF and got the wrong sperm.
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(BIRD TWEETS)
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Hey, Mum.
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Hey! How are you going?
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How was town?
Good.
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The couple's oldest son
was conceived in 2006
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The couple's oldest son
at the state's largest IVF clinic,
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at the state's largest IVF clinic,
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the Queensland Fertility Group.
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Anastasia says she took great care
in choosing the right sperm donor.
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Went to QFG and they had a big book
with the donor profile.
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So, at the top of every profile
it had the donor number,
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but there was definitely
no photos and no names.
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There's an age bracket
for the donor,
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their educational background
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and their health history as well.
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And what donor number
did you choose for your first son?
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I chose donor number 227.
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From day one
he was a big, strapping boy.
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Four years later
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Anastasia and Lexie
wanted to have more children.
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We contacted QFG to check
that we could use the same donor.
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And they said, "Yes, you can."
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So, at every point
we were very clear
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in the documentation and
every conversation we had with them
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that we wanted donor 227
to be the donor that we used.
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Their youngest sons
were born two years apart.
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As they grew up, both boys
have had serious health issues.
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Our middle child is diagnosed with
hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos syndrome.
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Our middle child is diagnosed with
As time went on
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As time went on
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the diagnoses kept adding up.
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Our youngest son is less affected.
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He has joint hypermobility syndrome
also.
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He also has a diagnosis
on the autism spectrum and ADHD.
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The two little boys
have medical issues
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that the older boy hasn't got.
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Right, you put your socks on.
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The couple wanted to find out
if other children of donor 227
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had similar diagnoses,
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so, they sent the boy's DNA
to an ancestry website
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so, they sent the boy's DNA
to track down other families.
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to track down other families.
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The results floored them.
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I found it profoundly confusing.
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I could see that there was no match
I found it profoundly confusing.
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I could see that there was no match
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between our eldest boy
and our younger two.
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between our eldest boy
and our younger two.
She just rang me and was, like,
hysterical and was so upset
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She just rang me and was, like,
hysterical and was so upset
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and she just kept saying,
"They gave us the wrong sperm.
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and she just kept saying,
"The boys don't match."
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"The boys don't match."
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And I was just...
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I don't know.
I just couldn't believe it.
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Has QFG provided any explanation
at this point
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as to how this could have happened?
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None whatsoever.
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At first they relied on denial
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that Ancestry or any other
At first they relied on denial
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that Ancestry or any other
home DNA testing could be accurate.
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We then attended
legally binding DNA testing
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that they use for legal
paternity testing in Brisbane,
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that they use for legal
and tested all three of our sons,
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and tested all three of our sons,
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and that showed definitively
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that our eldest son does not share
any DNA with our younger children.
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We provided that evidence to them
in January 2023.
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They have reiterated
that, according to their documents,
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they used donor 227 for our IVF
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and that donor 227 is the biological
father of our children.
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So, in the face
of scientific evidence,
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QFG is just absolutely denying
this has happened?
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Yes, they have completely denied
that this has happened.
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Yes, they have completely denied
They have offered no rationale.
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They have offered no rationale.
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So, how did you discover then
who the real donor was?
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Ah, well, that was hundreds
and hundreds of hours of work.
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Ah, well, that was hundreds
So, this is a culmination
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So, this is a culmination
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of putting together
a lot of different sources.
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Their research
has led them to another QFG donor.
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DNA testing shows
the two younger boys
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DNA testing shows
match with children from donor 222.
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match with children from donor 222.
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So, we discovered that donor 222 and
donor 227 came in on the same day
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and delivered their specimens
on the same day.
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And, so, it could have been swapped
on that day.
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Is it baffling to you
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that QFG to date has accepted no
responsibility for what's happened?
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that QFG to date has accepted no
Blows my mind.
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Blows my mind.
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Hurts my heart.
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Do you think they owe you that?
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They owe my children that
and me that.
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My children are people,
not products.
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Like, we're not talking about
a pair of sneakers.
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Like, I didn't go home
and open up the box
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and they were the wrong brand
of sneakers.
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These are my children.
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QFG is owned by Australia's largest
IVF provider, Virtus Health,
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which has clinics
all around the country.
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In what's become a fiercely
competitive and profitable industry
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In what's become a fiercely
Virtus is the market leader.
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Virtus is the market leader.
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The fertility company
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was at the centre
of a heated takeover battle in 2022
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won by private equity giant
BGH Capital.
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BILL LEDGER:
Private equity is all about money.
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BILL LEDGER:
These are smart financial people.
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These are smart financial people.
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They wouldn't have
These are smart financial people.
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They wouldn't have
bought into these clinics
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unless they thought they were
going to make profit out of it.
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What is driving
that huge growth and interest?
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We are providing a part
of health care that people want.
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In Australia now
1 in 18 births is an IVF birth.
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The fact is it's in great demand.
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And if you are working in a business
where the demand is huge,
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where the number of customers
you have is huge,
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where the number of customers
you have is huge,
inevitably almost
you will make money
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inevitably almost
you will make money
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if you can provide
something that's of decent value.
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Three big players
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account for more than 80%
of the industry's total revenue -
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account for more than 80%
Virtus Health, Monash IVF and Genea.
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Virtus Health, Monash IVF and Genea.
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I think it's good
there are at least three.
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The advantage, you know, if you like
the concept of capitalism -
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The advantage, you know, if you like
they do compete,
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they do compete,
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and competition can improve quality
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and push down costs and so forth.
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So, that's a good thing.
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But the downside, I guess,
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is that sometimes the corporates
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can be a little cold
and a little distant
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and patients
and people around patients
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get the sense
that they're a number in a machine
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rather than a human being.
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And that's something that's
all of our jobs to try and prevent.
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Professor Bill Ledger
is a fertility specialist
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with 30 years experience
in public and private IVF clinics.
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He's adamant - when things go wrong,
patient care must come first.
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We all must accept
that occasionally error will happen.
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Each has to be dealt with
very thoroughly, analysed deeply,
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change made
to prevent it happening again.
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But if you have a clinic or clinics
where mistakes keep happening,
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then there has to be
a significant inquiry,
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and that should be external
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and it should be visible
and 100% transparent,
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but then probably change
has to be made.
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(DOORBELL RINGS)
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Hello!
Hi!
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Hello!
Come on in.
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00:12:01,540 --> 00:12:02,860
Come on in.
220
00:12:02,860 --> 00:12:03,100
Long time no see.
Come on in.
221
00:12:03,100 --> 00:12:05,340
Long time no see.
How was your drive?
222
00:12:05,340 --> 00:12:06,300
Not too bad.
223
00:12:06,300 --> 00:12:08,060
Definitely not as bad
as I thought it would be.
224
00:12:08,060 --> 00:12:08,300
Definitely not as bad
Oh, that's good.
225
00:12:08,300 --> 00:12:09,180
Oh, that's good.
226
00:12:09,180 --> 00:12:09,420
How're you going?
Oh, that's good.
227
00:12:09,420 --> 00:12:10,620
How're you going?
Hey, Josh.
228
00:12:10,620 --> 00:12:10,860
How're you going?
Come on in.
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Come on in.
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Sisters Sophie and Amelia Hawkshaw
and their husbands, Josh and Zach,
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are private people.
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Do you have any chopping
you want me to do? Yeah, yeah, sure.
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But they feel compelled
to speak publicly for the first time
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But they feel compelled
about their experience
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about their experience
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00:12:27,300 --> 00:12:27,540
with one of the big three
about their experience
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with one of the big three
fertility clinics, Genea.
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with one of the big three
I'll just put that there.
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I'll just put that there.
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I think people need to know
that when things go wrong,
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this is what Genea does.
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This is how they treat people.
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This is the company
you're getting into bed with.
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This is the company
(LAUGHS)
245
00:12:41,420 --> 00:12:43,940
(LAUGHS)
246
00:12:43,940 --> 00:12:45,900
MAN: (SINGS) # Da, da-da, da... #
247
00:12:45,900 --> 00:12:48,780
It was, yeah, just the two of us
growing up with my parents.
248
00:12:48,780 --> 00:12:49,020
It was, yeah, just the two of us
And we're only two years apart.
249
00:12:49,020 --> 00:12:52,620
And we're only two years apart.
250
00:12:52,620 --> 00:12:52,860
You just have your own little world
And we're only two years apart.
251
00:12:52,860 --> 00:12:55,740
You just have your own little world
of play together as kids.
252
00:12:55,740 --> 00:12:55,980
You just have your own little world
Ready?! Set! Go!
253
00:12:55,980 --> 00:12:58,020
Ready?! Set! Go!
254
00:12:58,020 --> 00:13:01,820
Yeah, it's always kind of been
the two amigos of Amelia and I.
255
00:13:03,380 --> 00:13:06,260
The sisters found out
when they were teenagers
256
00:13:06,260 --> 00:13:06,500
The sisters found out
that Amelia couldn't produce eggs.
257
00:13:06,500 --> 00:13:09,260
that Amelia couldn't produce eggs.
258
00:13:10,220 --> 00:13:12,460
And it meant that,
259
00:13:12,460 --> 00:13:14,820
if I wanted to have a family,
260
00:13:14,820 --> 00:13:15,060
that I would need donor eggs
from someone else.
if I wanted to have a family,
261
00:13:15,060 --> 00:13:19,380
that I would need donor eggs
from someone else.
262
00:13:19,380 --> 00:13:19,620
that I would need donor eggs
So...
263
00:13:19,620 --> 00:13:20,500
So...
264
00:13:20,500 --> 00:13:20,700
So...
I kind of flippantly said,
265
00:13:20,700 --> 00:13:23,340
I kind of flippantly said,
266
00:13:23,340 --> 00:13:23,580
"Oh, I'll just give you some
I kind of flippantly said,
267
00:13:23,580 --> 00:13:27,100
"Oh, I'll just give you some
of my eggs. I'll just donate eggs."
268
00:13:27,100 --> 00:13:27,340
"Oh, I'll just give you some
(CHILD BABBLES)
269
00:13:27,340 --> 00:13:28,500
(CHILD BABBLES)
270
00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:29,860
What is it?
271
00:13:29,860 --> 00:13:30,100
More than a decade on
What is it?
272
00:13:30,100 --> 00:13:32,660
More than a decade on
from that promise...
273
00:13:32,660 --> 00:13:32,900
More than a decade on
What smells? Should we have a look?
274
00:13:32,900 --> 00:13:34,260
What smells? Should we have a look?
275
00:13:34,260 --> 00:13:36,180
..Sophie had her first baby.
276
00:13:36,180 --> 00:13:38,700
Ready? You can sit
next to Meels here.
277
00:13:38,700 --> 00:13:41,660
It meant she was then ready
to start the process
278
00:13:41,660 --> 00:13:41,900
It meant she was then ready
of donating her eggs to Amelia.
279
00:13:41,900 --> 00:13:44,300
of donating her eggs to Amelia.
280
00:13:44,300 --> 00:13:46,180
(CHILD BABBLES)
281
00:13:47,140 --> 00:13:49,860
The sisters
went to a public fertility unit
282
00:13:49,860 --> 00:13:53,140
at Sydney's
Royal Prince Alfred Hospital.
283
00:13:53,140 --> 00:13:56,260
The low-cost clinic
is state-government funded
284
00:13:56,260 --> 00:14:00,940
and run in collaboration
with fertility giant Genea.
285
00:14:00,940 --> 00:14:01,220
So, all of the patient care
is done by RPA staff
and run in collaboration
with fertility giant Genea.
286
00:14:01,220 --> 00:14:05,020
So, all of the patient care
is done by RPA staff
287
00:14:05,020 --> 00:14:08,420
and all of the lab work
is done by Genea,
288
00:14:08,420 --> 00:14:08,660
and all of the lab work
is done by Genea,
who are a private company
289
00:14:08,660 --> 00:14:09,940
who are a private company
290
00:14:09,940 --> 00:14:10,180
that have a contract
who are a private company
291
00:14:10,180 --> 00:14:11,940
that have a contract
with New South Wales Health.
292
00:14:12,900 --> 00:14:18,260
Sophie's retrieval procedure
last August produced 22 eggs.
293
00:14:18,260 --> 00:14:22,460
When did you find out
how many embryos you had?
294
00:14:22,460 --> 00:14:25,140
So, the next day
is considered day one,
295
00:14:25,140 --> 00:14:31,220
and we found out that we had
17 embryos that had been fertilised.
296
00:14:31,220 --> 00:14:31,460
and we found out that we had
And that was just so exciting.
297
00:14:31,460 --> 00:14:34,060
And that was just so exciting.
298
00:14:34,060 --> 00:14:35,820
It was such good news.
299
00:14:37,260 --> 00:14:39,940
I felt like my job was done.
300
00:14:39,940 --> 00:14:43,140
Normally we would get
our next update on day three.
301
00:14:43,140 --> 00:14:43,380
Normally we would get
We didn't get that far.
302
00:14:43,380 --> 00:14:45,500
We didn't get that far.
303
00:14:45,500 --> 00:14:49,140
So, we got our call on day two...
304
00:14:50,700 --> 00:14:53,700
..to say
that the embryos had been...
305
00:14:54,660 --> 00:14:57,580
..contaminated with a bacteria.
306
00:14:57,580 --> 00:15:01,540
And, so, it was those 17
that had to be destroyed.
307
00:15:03,060 --> 00:15:05,020
Just all of them.
308
00:15:07,500 --> 00:15:12,100
What did those 17 embryos
represent to you?
309
00:15:12,100 --> 00:15:14,460
Those 17 embryos...
310
00:15:16,900 --> 00:15:19,100
I mean, they were all...
311
00:15:20,060 --> 00:15:23,660
..like, potential children
that we could have had.
312
00:15:25,820 --> 00:15:29,620
A Sydney hospital has been forced
to destroy embryos
313
00:15:29,620 --> 00:15:31,380
belonging to IVF patients.
314
00:15:33,020 --> 00:15:38,780
Within days their personal tragedy
was thrust into the public spotlight.
315
00:15:40,220 --> 00:15:43,380
And it felt almost like a betrayal
because it was our story,
316
00:15:43,380 --> 00:15:43,620
And it felt almost like a betrayal
that I just wanted to scream, like,
317
00:15:43,620 --> 00:15:44,540
that I just wanted to scream, like,
318
00:15:44,540 --> 00:15:46,380
"That's us
that you're talking about."
319
00:15:48,300 --> 00:15:51,500
Privately, the sisters
were struggling to find out
320
00:15:51,500 --> 00:15:51,740
Privately, the sisters
what exactly had gone wrong.
321
00:15:51,740 --> 00:15:53,980
what exactly had gone wrong.
322
00:15:55,660 --> 00:15:58,420
The doctor said at the time
323
00:15:58,420 --> 00:15:58,660
that because it was something
The doctor said at the time
324
00:15:58,660 --> 00:16:02,660
that because it was something
that had happened in the lab,
325
00:16:02,660 --> 00:16:02,900
that because it was something
it was an issue for Genea
326
00:16:02,900 --> 00:16:05,140
it was an issue for Genea
327
00:16:05,140 --> 00:16:07,540
rather than the public hospital.
328
00:16:07,540 --> 00:16:10,260
They said that...
329
00:16:10,260 --> 00:16:15,900
..I would be called by Genea
to organise next steps.
330
00:16:15,900 --> 00:16:16,140
..I would be called by Genea
(BIRD TWITTERS)
331
00:16:16,140 --> 00:16:18,380
(BIRD TWITTERS)
332
00:16:18,380 --> 00:16:22,140
Genea told them
an investigation was underway
333
00:16:22,140 --> 00:16:27,100
and that two other families
had also had their embryos destroyed.
334
00:16:30,980 --> 00:16:32,500
OK, here we go again.
335
00:16:32,500 --> 00:16:34,220
Ready to make a baby!
336
00:16:35,340 --> 00:16:36,900
Make sure it's ready.
337
00:16:39,060 --> 00:16:42,100
It's hopefully the last one.
Last round.
338
00:16:42,100 --> 00:16:42,980
Ah!
339
00:16:42,980 --> 00:16:44,660
Come on, baby-making!
340
00:16:44,660 --> 00:16:46,700
Br-br-br-br. (LAUGHS)
341
00:16:49,580 --> 00:16:52,580
Good and bad emotions
when I look at that.
342
00:16:52,580 --> 00:16:56,100
So, I remember being excited
but at the same time very hesitant.
343
00:16:58,340 --> 00:17:03,300
Vikki Muller had her egg retrieval
in the same week as Sophie.
344
00:17:05,060 --> 00:17:09,540
She got two eggs, which turned
into two healthy embryos.
345
00:17:09,540 --> 00:17:13,860
But during the procedure
a blood vessel was pierced
346
00:17:13,860 --> 00:17:16,540
and Vikki suffered an internal bleed.
347
00:17:16,540 --> 00:17:18,100
Yeah, it wasn't a very good night.
348
00:17:18,100 --> 00:17:21,020
Probably the worst pain I've ever
been in in my life, to be honest.
349
00:17:21,020 --> 00:17:21,260
Probably the worst pain I've ever
In so many of those photos, though,
350
00:17:21,260 --> 00:17:22,900
In so many of those photos, though,
351
00:17:22,900 --> 00:17:23,140
you're smiling
In so many of those photos, though,
352
00:17:23,140 --> 00:17:25,380
you're smiling
and holding up two fingers.
353
00:17:25,380 --> 00:17:29,180
Oh, do you know what? Because I...
it was the best result I've got.
354
00:17:29,180 --> 00:17:32,740
I mean, this is the best result
we've got in five years.
355
00:17:32,740 --> 00:17:33,860
Like...
356
00:17:35,180 --> 00:17:37,900
I was in so much pain,
but I was so...
357
00:17:37,900 --> 00:17:42,260
I felt so strong.
I still felt really optimistic.
358
00:17:42,260 --> 00:17:44,740
And I was proud of myself, you know?
I was proud of myself.
359
00:17:44,740 --> 00:17:44,980
And I was proud of myself, you know?
I got 100%, you know.
360
00:17:44,980 --> 00:17:46,540
I got 100%, you know.
361
00:17:46,540 --> 00:17:51,300
It was Vikki's fourth round of IVF.
362
00:17:51,300 --> 00:17:51,540
Ohh!
It was Vikki's fourth round of IVF.
363
00:17:51,540 --> 00:17:53,180
Ohh!
Hello!
364
00:17:53,180 --> 00:17:53,420
Ohh!
Welcome home.
365
00:17:53,420 --> 00:17:54,420
Welcome home.
366
00:17:54,420 --> 00:17:56,220
She and her partner, Chris,
367
00:17:56,220 --> 00:17:59,180
were forced to delay
trying for a baby
368
00:17:59,180 --> 00:18:03,020
after he was diagnosed
with prostate cancer a few years ago.
369
00:18:03,020 --> 00:18:03,260
after he was diagnosed
Lots of nothing.
370
00:18:03,260 --> 00:18:04,420
Lots of nothing.
371
00:18:04,420 --> 00:18:04,620
I want to see my partner happy.
Lots of nothing.
372
00:18:04,620 --> 00:18:06,860
I want to see my partner happy.
373
00:18:06,860 --> 00:18:10,180
And that's... That's part of why
this journey has been so difficult.
374
00:18:12,340 --> 00:18:15,900
The couple was told
about Genea's lab contamination
375
00:18:15,900 --> 00:18:18,700
when Vikki
was recovering in hospital.
376
00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:22,980
Their precious two embryos
had to be destroyed.
377
00:18:22,980 --> 00:18:27,460
What did those two healthy embryos
represent to you?
378
00:18:27,460 --> 00:18:27,700
What did those two healthy embryos
They were like gold to us.
379
00:18:27,700 --> 00:18:28,980
They were like gold to us.
380
00:18:29,940 --> 00:18:31,300
Yeah.
381
00:18:31,300 --> 00:18:35,060
When it dawned, you know,
in the hospital, there was just...
382
00:18:35,060 --> 00:18:35,300
When it dawned, you know,
..it just became a source of anger,
383
00:18:35,300 --> 00:18:38,660
..it just became a source of anger,
384
00:18:38,660 --> 00:18:43,020
you know,
frustration, sadness, heartbreak.
385
00:18:43,020 --> 00:18:45,060
It's all milling around, you know?
386
00:18:46,780 --> 00:18:51,060
Genea told them
bacteria in the embryology solution
387
00:18:51,060 --> 00:18:53,420
was believed to be the likely cause.
388
00:18:53,420 --> 00:18:58,340
Vikki and Chris
pressed Genea for more information.
389
00:18:58,340 --> 00:19:02,020
It was like, as soon
as we got discharged from hospital,
390
00:19:02,020 --> 00:19:02,260
It was like, as soon
it was...we were non-existent.
391
00:19:02,260 --> 00:19:05,260
it was...we were non-existent.
392
00:19:05,260 --> 00:19:07,460
They basically made me feel
393
00:19:07,460 --> 00:19:10,940
like a bad person
for wanting to have a baby.
394
00:19:10,940 --> 00:19:12,980
You know, when I asked
for what really happened,
395
00:19:12,980 --> 00:19:17,820
and there was just a bit of this
"Yeah, the media was infected."
396
00:19:17,820 --> 00:19:19,100
Well, I already know that.
397
00:19:19,100 --> 00:19:22,060
"How on earth
does a company like you
398
00:19:22,060 --> 00:19:26,620
"supply such an important service
for an IVF process,
399
00:19:26,620 --> 00:19:29,740
"in dealing with people's lives
and families...
400
00:19:29,740 --> 00:19:31,460
"..how on earth
does that get infected?
401
00:19:31,460 --> 00:19:34,940
"Just delve a little bit more
into that to me, please."
402
00:19:34,940 --> 00:19:39,260
You know, was someone not wearing
gloves handling the...like PPE?
403
00:19:39,260 --> 00:19:40,540
I mean, what happened?!
404
00:19:41,500 --> 00:19:44,180
But also, like,
we're entitled to understanding
405
00:19:44,180 --> 00:19:44,420
But also, like,
what's gone wrong here.
406
00:19:44,420 --> 00:19:46,100
what's gone wrong here.
407
00:19:46,100 --> 00:19:46,340
Right?
what's gone wrong here.
408
00:19:46,340 --> 00:19:48,300
Right?
We're allowed to have an answer.
409
00:19:48,300 --> 00:19:52,380
Sophie and Amelia
and their husbands, Josh and Zach,
410
00:19:52,380 --> 00:19:52,620
Sophie and Amelia
have also been demanding answers
411
00:19:52,620 --> 00:19:54,580
have also been demanding answers
412
00:19:54,580 --> 00:19:57,900
on how such a critical error
could occur.
413
00:19:57,900 --> 00:19:59,380
It's our information. That's right.
414
00:19:59,380 --> 00:20:01,660
Yeah.
That's what we went through.
415
00:20:01,660 --> 00:20:01,900
Yeah.
Early on Genea indicated
416
00:20:01,900 --> 00:20:03,900
Early on Genea indicated
417
00:20:03,900 --> 00:20:07,460
there was a staff member
with dermatitis on their hands
418
00:20:07,460 --> 00:20:08,700
working that day,
419
00:20:08,700 --> 00:20:12,260
but it wouldn't share
the full details.
420
00:20:13,460 --> 00:20:18,940
It's clear that human error
was involved in the incident.
421
00:20:19,900 --> 00:20:21,620
And human error does happen.
422
00:20:21,620 --> 00:20:25,940
But, for us,
what's really caused the trauma
423
00:20:25,940 --> 00:20:28,180
and kind of affected us long term
424
00:20:28,180 --> 00:20:33,500
has been how we've been treated
since the incident occurred.
425
00:20:33,500 --> 00:20:33,740
has been how we've been treated
How difficult has it been
426
00:20:33,740 --> 00:20:35,100
How difficult has it been
427
00:20:35,100 --> 00:20:39,300
to extract information from Genea
about what went wrong?
428
00:20:39,300 --> 00:20:40,500
Impossible.
429
00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:42,260
Absolutely impossible.
430
00:20:43,660 --> 00:20:48,540
Genea has refused to give the
families a copy of its investigation,
431
00:20:48,540 --> 00:20:51,260
known as the 'root cause analysis'.
432
00:20:51,260 --> 00:20:55,860
The fertility giant told them
it won't hand over the report:
433
00:21:03,020 --> 00:21:05,940
How did you feel reading THAT
434
00:21:05,940 --> 00:21:08,900
as the reason why
you couldn't know what happened?
435
00:21:08,900 --> 00:21:12,260
Ah, that's absolute rubbish.
That's just protecting themselves.
436
00:21:12,260 --> 00:21:12,500
Ah, that's absolute rubbish.
That's going into damage control.
437
00:21:12,500 --> 00:21:14,940
That's going into damage control.
438
00:21:14,940 --> 00:21:15,180
Give me some information
That's going into damage control.
439
00:21:15,180 --> 00:21:17,420
Give me some information
and some answers.
440
00:21:17,420 --> 00:21:21,340
I really... Regardless
of if you're private or public,
441
00:21:21,340 --> 00:21:21,580
I really... Regardless
it's my body,
442
00:21:21,580 --> 00:21:22,660
it's my body,
443
00:21:22,660 --> 00:21:27,980
it's our embryos that
you destroyed or didn't look after.
444
00:21:27,980 --> 00:21:31,380
How difficult is it
to be honest and open to someone?
445
00:21:31,380 --> 00:21:31,620
How difficult is it
I... I just... I don't understand.
446
00:21:31,620 --> 00:21:33,860
I... I just... I don't understand.
447
00:21:36,860 --> 00:21:40,220
Vikki and Chris have teamed up
with the other couples
448
00:21:40,220 --> 00:21:42,940
to hold Genea to account.
449
00:21:42,940 --> 00:21:44,380
(ON LAPTOP)
The Honourable Jacqui Munro.
450
00:21:44,380 --> 00:21:47,860
They've enlisted the help
of a state MP.
451
00:21:47,860 --> 00:21:50,140
We know that this has occurred
for some women,
452
00:21:50,140 --> 00:21:52,660
and that they deserve to know
exactly what happened to the embryos
453
00:21:52,660 --> 00:21:54,740
they thought
would develop into families.
454
00:21:54,740 --> 00:21:54,980
they thought
They're hoping political pressure
455
00:21:54,980 --> 00:21:56,420
They're hoping political pressure
456
00:21:56,420 --> 00:21:56,660
will force Genea
They're hoping political pressure
457
00:21:56,660 --> 00:21:59,820
will force Genea
and New South Wales Health
458
00:21:59,820 --> 00:22:03,340
to be transparent
about what went wrong.
459
00:22:03,340 --> 00:22:04,820
SOPHIE HAWKSHAW:
We are fighting so hard
460
00:22:04,820 --> 00:22:05,060
SOPHIE HAWKSHAW:
to get that root cause analysis.
461
00:22:05,060 --> 00:22:06,300
to get that root cause analysis.
462
00:22:06,300 --> 00:22:06,540
So, Jacqui Munro,
to get that root cause analysis.
463
00:22:06,540 --> 00:22:09,980
So, Jacqui Munro,
who's an MLP in the Upper House,
464
00:22:09,980 --> 00:22:10,220
So, Jacqui Munro,
she did a motion for
465
00:22:10,220 --> 00:22:13,700
she did a motion for
466
00:22:13,700 --> 00:22:13,940
the documents relating to our case
to be publicly released.
she did a motion for
467
00:22:13,940 --> 00:22:18,740
the documents relating to our case
to be publicly released.
468
00:22:18,740 --> 00:22:18,980
the documents relating to our case
to be publicly released.
I can only assume
469
00:22:18,980 --> 00:22:19,740
I can only assume
470
00:22:19,740 --> 00:22:19,980
that this is a profoundly personal
I can only assume
471
00:22:19,980 --> 00:22:23,060
that this is a profoundly personal
and devastating experience.
472
00:22:23,060 --> 00:22:23,300
that this is a profoundly personal
Thank you, Minister.
473
00:22:23,300 --> 00:22:25,340
Thank you, Minister.
474
00:22:26,860 --> 00:22:29,380
It's taken going to Parliament
475
00:22:29,380 --> 00:22:33,540
to get access
to our own medical information.
476
00:22:35,700 --> 00:22:39,220
Yeah, I think
it's absolutely ridiculous
477
00:22:39,220 --> 00:22:41,260
that this is how far
we've had to take it.
478
00:22:42,500 --> 00:22:44,860
Oh.
479
00:22:46,740 --> 00:22:50,620
Private-equity-owned companies
like Genea and Virtus Health
480
00:22:50,620 --> 00:22:55,700
benefit hugely from Australia's
generous Medicare system.
481
00:22:55,700 --> 00:22:58,540
An IVF cycle
at one of these big clinics
482
00:22:58,540 --> 00:22:58,780
An IVF cycle
can cost between $10,000 to $12,000.
483
00:22:58,780 --> 00:23:02,060
can cost between $10,000 to $12,000.
484
00:23:02,060 --> 00:23:02,300
About half of that cost
can cost between $10,000 to $12,000.
485
00:23:02,300 --> 00:23:06,580
About half of that cost
is covered by taxpayers.
486
00:23:07,420 --> 00:23:10,580
KARIN HAMMARBERG:
The truth is that the shareholders
487
00:23:10,580 --> 00:23:13,540
benefit from the Medicare payments
as well.
488
00:23:13,540 --> 00:23:18,580
I think it would be expected
that there would be transparency.
489
00:23:19,820 --> 00:23:22,580
Fertility researcher
Karin Hammarberg
490
00:23:22,580 --> 00:23:25,900
has 20 years clinical experience
in IVF.
491
00:23:25,900 --> 00:23:31,580
She says corporate clinics should be
held to account when things go wrong.
492
00:23:35,020 --> 00:23:36,500
If there has been
493
00:23:36,500 --> 00:23:38,980
and it's established
that there has been a mistake,
494
00:23:38,980 --> 00:23:43,260
transparency, I think,
is always the best way to manage it
495
00:23:43,260 --> 00:23:48,220
and obviously acknowledging
that something bad has happened
496
00:23:48,220 --> 00:23:52,060
and what can be done in the future
to avoid that it happens again?
497
00:23:54,620 --> 00:23:57,020
There IS a national regulator -
498
00:23:57,020 --> 00:23:57,260
the Reproductive Technology
There IS a national regulator -
499
00:23:57,260 --> 00:24:00,620
the Reproductive Technology
Accreditation Committee.
500
00:24:00,620 --> 00:24:00,860
the Reproductive Technology
But it isn't independent.
501
00:24:00,860 --> 00:24:02,580
But it isn't independent.
502
00:24:02,580 --> 00:24:07,100
It's run by industry peak body
The Fertility Society.
503
00:24:07,100 --> 00:24:08,940
RTAC's primary role
504
00:24:08,940 --> 00:24:09,180
is to audit clinics
RTAC's primary role
505
00:24:09,180 --> 00:24:11,740
is to audit clinics
through a code of practice
506
00:24:11,740 --> 00:24:16,980
and grant licences, which allows them
to claim Medicare rebates.
507
00:24:18,100 --> 00:24:21,300
Is it even more important then
that these corporate clinics
508
00:24:21,300 --> 00:24:23,060
that are receiving taxpayer dollars
509
00:24:23,060 --> 00:24:26,900
are being accountable
and transparent?
510
00:24:26,900 --> 00:24:27,140
are being accountable
Yes, it is.
511
00:24:27,140 --> 00:24:28,220
Yes, it is.
512
00:24:28,220 --> 00:24:30,620
To my mind, it's quite unique
513
00:24:30,620 --> 00:24:32,140
that taxpayer money
514
00:24:32,140 --> 00:24:36,340
is transferring pretty much directly
into private equity companies
515
00:24:36,340 --> 00:24:36,580
is transferring pretty much directly
via a healthcare provision.
516
00:24:36,580 --> 00:24:38,620
via a healthcare provision.
517
00:24:38,620 --> 00:24:38,820
It's a system that has evolved.
via a healthcare provision.
518
00:24:38,820 --> 00:24:40,500
It's a system that has evolved.
519
00:24:40,500 --> 00:24:44,020
It's been... It's changed
organically over the years.
520
00:24:44,020 --> 00:24:44,260
It's been... It's changed
Maybe it's time for a major review
521
00:24:44,260 --> 00:24:47,740
Maybe it's time for a major review
522
00:24:47,740 --> 00:24:47,980
Maybe it's time for a major review
just to make sure that
it's all functioning as it should.
523
00:24:47,980 --> 00:24:50,540
just to make sure that
it's all functioning as it should.
524
00:24:50,540 --> 00:24:53,340
(PLAYS GENTLE MELODY)
525
00:25:02,340 --> 00:25:03,900
KATHERINE DAWSON:
I thought it was pretty cool
526
00:25:03,900 --> 00:25:07,820
that I was made in a petri dish
and in a lab
527
00:25:07,820 --> 00:25:10,060
and I was frozen
for possibly seven years.
528
00:25:10,060 --> 00:25:12,460
Like, that sounds like sci fi.
529
00:25:14,340 --> 00:25:18,420
I didn't have any interest
in finding out who the donor was.
530
00:25:18,420 --> 00:25:22,180
I assumed he'd be
a nice, generous, healthy bloke
531
00:25:22,180 --> 00:25:22,420
I assumed he'd be
because that's what they advertise.
532
00:25:22,420 --> 00:25:24,340
because that's what they advertise.
533
00:25:24,340 --> 00:25:27,860
That's what they tell you they use.
534
00:25:27,860 --> 00:25:30,540
(CONCLUDES SONG)
535
00:25:30,540 --> 00:25:34,220
That's what everyone believes.
536
00:25:34,220 --> 00:25:39,140
That's what you would think
is legislated, that IS used.
537
00:25:39,140 --> 00:25:39,380
That's what you would think
You don't think there's any lies.
538
00:25:39,380 --> 00:25:41,940
You don't think there's any lies.
539
00:25:47,180 --> 00:25:49,100
Katherine Dawson has discovered
540
00:25:49,100 --> 00:25:52,660
she's at the centre
of an unbelievable bungle
541
00:25:52,660 --> 00:25:57,220
involving two of Australia's
biggest fertility companies.
542
00:25:57,220 --> 00:25:59,460
DNA testing has revealed
543
00:25:59,460 --> 00:26:04,580
poor vetting practices allowed
her donor father to donate sperm
544
00:26:04,580 --> 00:26:04,820
poor vetting practices allowed
under multiple different names,
545
00:26:04,820 --> 00:26:06,340
under multiple different names,
546
00:26:06,340 --> 00:26:08,820
with alarming consequences.
547
00:26:09,780 --> 00:26:14,100
How many names did he tell you
that he donated under?
548
00:26:14,100 --> 00:26:17,860
I think that there were seven,
including his own.
549
00:26:17,860 --> 00:26:21,260
So, how many half-siblings
do you think you might have?
550
00:26:21,260 --> 00:26:21,500
So, how many half-siblings
So, at this stage,
551
00:26:21,500 --> 00:26:23,300
So, at this stage,
552
00:26:23,300 --> 00:26:25,300
I think and I estimate
553
00:26:25,300 --> 00:26:28,420
that there could be
up to 700 siblings.
554
00:26:28,420 --> 00:26:30,180
And it's still inside Victoria,
this doesn't cover...
555
00:26:30,180 --> 00:26:30,420
And it's still inside Victoria,
It sounds far-fetched,
556
00:26:30,420 --> 00:26:32,460
It sounds far-fetched,
557
00:26:32,460 --> 00:26:36,620
but Katherine says the evidence
continues to stack up.
558
00:26:36,620 --> 00:26:39,020
He pretty much said to me
when I met him,
559
00:26:39,020 --> 00:26:41,020
he said all of the fake names
that he used
560
00:26:41,020 --> 00:26:44,820
and that he went to six clinics
and four hospitals.
561
00:26:44,820 --> 00:26:48,220
So, I might not
have wanted to believe him,
562
00:26:48,220 --> 00:26:49,820
and there might be reason
not to believe him,
563
00:26:49,820 --> 00:26:53,940
but I've already found siblings
across three different codes.
564
00:26:53,940 --> 00:26:57,020
Those three codes
are from Melbourne IVF,
565
00:26:57,020 --> 00:26:58,980
which is owned by Virtus Health,
566
00:26:58,980 --> 00:27:02,940
and the ASX-listed Monash IVF.
567
00:27:02,940 --> 00:27:06,980
So far Katherine says sibling lists
and DNA results
568
00:27:06,980 --> 00:27:11,540
have delivered matches
for 56 half-siblings.
569
00:27:11,540 --> 00:27:16,420
It's totally possible that your
mate's sister could be my sister
570
00:27:16,420 --> 00:27:20,980
thanks to clinics not checking
or verifying identification.
571
00:27:20,980 --> 00:27:21,220
thanks to clinics not checking
She's using social media
572
00:27:21,220 --> 00:27:22,540
She's using social media
573
00:27:22,540 --> 00:27:26,420
to track down as many half-siblings
as she can.
574
00:27:26,420 --> 00:27:27,820
What's, like, the threshold
575
00:27:27,820 --> 00:27:31,260
for you to think
something's not quite right?
576
00:27:31,260 --> 00:27:36,060
It's not just the daunting number of
half-siblings that worries Katherine.
577
00:27:36,060 --> 00:27:38,620
How about we just let each other
know who we are
578
00:27:38,620 --> 00:27:41,140
so that we don't date
or have kids together?
579
00:27:41,140 --> 00:27:41,380
so that we don't date
There's an urgency to her search.
580
00:27:41,380 --> 00:27:43,780
There's an urgency to her search.
581
00:27:43,780 --> 00:27:46,020
I have medical information
for my siblings
582
00:27:46,020 --> 00:27:47,980
I really need them to have
583
00:27:47,980 --> 00:27:49,620
that could save their life.
584
00:27:50,860 --> 00:27:54,700
As Katherine's connected
with more and more half-siblings,
585
00:27:54,700 --> 00:27:57,740
she's learned of a bowel-cancer risk.
586
00:27:58,740 --> 00:28:03,020
She says the donor
also has schizophrenia.
587
00:28:03,020 --> 00:28:05,060
Why do you feel a responsibility
588
00:28:05,060 --> 00:28:05,300
to find and contact each
Why do you feel a responsibility
589
00:28:05,300 --> 00:28:10,860
to find and contact each
of those potentially 700 siblings?
590
00:28:10,860 --> 00:28:11,100
to find and contact each
I can't live with myself
591
00:28:11,100 --> 00:28:13,340
I can't live with myself
592
00:28:13,340 --> 00:28:15,820
if I don't try
to get that information to them.
593
00:28:15,820 --> 00:28:18,900
But why is it your job
to get that information to them?
594
00:28:18,900 --> 00:28:19,180
It's not my job,
but the clinics won't do it.
But why is it your job
to get that information to them?
595
00:28:19,180 --> 00:28:22,420
It's not my job,
but the clinics won't do it.
596
00:28:22,420 --> 00:28:22,660
It's not my job,
The clinics have had seven years.
597
00:28:22,660 --> 00:28:24,380
The clinics have had seven years.
598
00:28:30,140 --> 00:28:32,340
Melbourne IVF has told Four Corners
599
00:28:32,340 --> 00:28:35,620
it wrote to recipient families
in 2019,
600
00:28:35,620 --> 00:28:35,860
it wrote to recipient families
and 64% of them received the letter.
601
00:28:35,860 --> 00:28:38,980
and 64% of them received the letter.
602
00:28:38,980 --> 00:28:43,780
But the clinic didn't say what
health information it had passed on.
603
00:28:43,780 --> 00:28:48,060
The clinics will only send a letter
to my siblings' parents -
604
00:28:48,060 --> 00:28:50,300
the person who had the treatment -
605
00:28:50,300 --> 00:28:54,740
to an address that's potentially
20 to 40 years old.
606
00:28:54,740 --> 00:28:54,980
to an address that's potentially
Is it fair enough, though,
607
00:28:54,980 --> 00:28:56,260
Is it fair enough, though,
608
00:28:56,260 --> 00:28:56,500
to say that the clinics have made
Is it fair enough, though,
609
00:28:56,500 --> 00:29:01,060
to say that the clinics have made
some effort to contact your siblings?
610
00:29:01,060 --> 00:29:01,300
to say that the clinics have made
I think making an effort
611
00:29:01,300 --> 00:29:04,460
I think making an effort
612
00:29:04,460 --> 00:29:07,620
is very different
to what they CAN do.
613
00:29:07,620 --> 00:29:07,860
is very different
They can use VANISH,
614
00:29:07,860 --> 00:29:09,260
They can use VANISH,
615
00:29:09,260 --> 00:29:09,500
which is a service
They can use VANISH,
616
00:29:09,500 --> 00:29:13,020
which is a service
to find their updated addresses.
617
00:29:13,020 --> 00:29:17,060
They absolutely know
they can use VANISH.
618
00:29:17,060 --> 00:29:17,300
They absolutely know
Monash IVF told Four Corners
619
00:29:17,300 --> 00:29:19,860
Monash IVF told Four Corners
620
00:29:19,860 --> 00:29:20,100
it treats any new health concerns
Monash IVF told Four Corners
621
00:29:20,100 --> 00:29:24,580
it treats any new health concerns
raised by its donor-conceived people
622
00:29:24,580 --> 00:29:24,820
it treats any new health concerns
seriously and sensitively,
623
00:29:24,820 --> 00:29:26,700
seriously and sensitively,
624
00:29:26,700 --> 00:29:31,220
and that it must comply
with its legislative obligations.
625
00:29:32,460 --> 00:29:35,620
If someone had information for you
that could save your life,
626
00:29:35,620 --> 00:29:35,860
If someone had information for you
how would you feel
627
00:29:35,860 --> 00:29:37,100
how would you feel
628
00:29:37,100 --> 00:29:39,500
knowing that the clinics
that created you
629
00:29:39,500 --> 00:29:43,100
and market you as a special gift,
a miracle,
630
00:29:43,100 --> 00:29:45,420
and they're blocking you
from having it?
631
00:29:45,420 --> 00:29:48,260
They're worried about the dividends
that go to shareholders,
632
00:29:48,260 --> 00:29:53,460
not the human products that are
on the other end of the treatments.
633
00:29:55,020 --> 00:29:59,820
Katherine has complained to
the industry-funded regulator RTAC
634
00:29:59,820 --> 00:30:03,980
that both clinics are withholding
vital health information
635
00:30:03,980 --> 00:30:07,900
by not doing more to directly contact
her half-siblings.
636
00:30:07,900 --> 00:30:08,140
by not doing more to directly contact
She's begged RTAC to act.
637
00:30:08,140 --> 00:30:11,260
She's begged RTAC to act.
638
00:30:11,260 --> 00:30:16,420
What did RTAC say in that response
to your complaint?
639
00:30:16,420 --> 00:30:16,660
What did RTAC say in that response
In response to my formal complaint
640
00:30:16,660 --> 00:30:19,740
In response to my formal complaint
641
00:30:19,740 --> 00:30:19,980
they've said
In response to my formal complaint
642
00:30:19,980 --> 00:30:22,220
they've said
that all they can really do
643
00:30:22,220 --> 00:30:25,460
is strongly encourage the clinics
to act.
644
00:30:25,460 --> 00:30:28,980
There's millions
going into making these babies,
645
00:30:28,980 --> 00:30:31,980
but nothing
going into protecting them.
646
00:30:31,980 --> 00:30:34,220
Are you surprised that the regulator
647
00:30:34,220 --> 00:30:37,700
can't do more
in these individual cases?
648
00:30:37,700 --> 00:30:37,980
Keep in mind
that these cases are rare,
can't do more
in these individual cases?
649
00:30:37,980 --> 00:30:40,620
Keep in mind
that these cases are rare,
650
00:30:40,620 --> 00:30:40,860
Keep in mind
and RTAC has not been set up
651
00:30:40,860 --> 00:30:42,780
and RTAC has not been set up
652
00:30:42,780 --> 00:30:45,100
to deeply investigate
653
00:30:45,100 --> 00:30:45,300
to deeply investigate
and regulate individual practice.
654
00:30:45,300 --> 00:30:49,820
and regulate individual practice.
655
00:30:49,820 --> 00:30:51,300
That's not its role.
656
00:30:51,300 --> 00:30:51,540
It does a good job, but its job is
That's not its role.
657
00:30:51,540 --> 00:30:56,140
It does a good job, but its job is
limited by the rules it works under.
658
00:30:56,140 --> 00:31:00,700
And, so, perhaps there's a need
for a system that is novel
659
00:31:00,700 --> 00:31:03,460
to regulate
that part of the industry.
660
00:31:03,460 --> 00:31:03,700
to regulate
(BIRDS TWITTER)
661
00:31:03,700 --> 00:31:07,100
(BIRDS TWITTER)
662
00:31:09,380 --> 00:31:15,020
Lexie and Anastasia Gunn have also
complained to the regulator,
663
00:31:15,020 --> 00:31:19,140
but RTAC doesn't investigate matters
it considers historical
664
00:31:19,140 --> 00:31:24,060
because they predate
its current code of practice.
665
00:31:24,060 --> 00:31:27,100
The couple is now suing
their IVF clinic,
666
00:31:27,100 --> 00:31:27,340
The couple is now suing
the Queensland Fertility Group.
667
00:31:27,340 --> 00:31:29,780
the Queensland Fertility Group.
668
00:31:31,940 --> 00:31:36,100
So, Anastasia, you're a family
of five living in a farming shed now.
669
00:31:36,100 --> 00:31:38,020
Was that the plan?
No, not at all.
670
00:31:38,020 --> 00:31:40,940
We'd saved up money
to do our house extensions
671
00:31:40,940 --> 00:31:41,180
We'd saved up money
and framed out the kids' bedrooms.
672
00:31:41,180 --> 00:31:43,020
and framed out the kids' bedrooms.
673
00:31:43,020 --> 00:31:43,260
And now we have to use
and framed out the kids' bedrooms.
674
00:31:43,260 --> 00:31:45,940
And now we have to use
all our life savings, basically,
675
00:31:45,940 --> 00:31:46,180
And now we have to use
to fight QFG in court.
676
00:31:46,180 --> 00:31:48,100
to fight QFG in court.
677
00:31:48,100 --> 00:31:50,020
QFG told Four Corners
678
00:31:50,020 --> 00:31:51,980
it's keen to work with the family
679
00:31:51,980 --> 00:31:52,220
to find
it's keen to work with the family
680
00:31:52,220 --> 00:31:55,500
to find
a mutually acceptable resolution,
681
00:31:55,500 --> 00:31:58,580
but it wouldn't comment
on the details of the legal claim
682
00:31:58,580 --> 00:31:58,820
but it wouldn't comment
while it's before the court.
683
00:31:58,820 --> 00:32:00,300
while it's before the court.
684
00:32:00,300 --> 00:32:03,100
LEXIE GUNN:
They were hoping we would just go,
685
00:32:03,100 --> 00:32:07,380
"It's in the too-hard basket,"
and run away or run out of money.
686
00:32:08,780 --> 00:32:10,740
And instead?
687
00:32:10,740 --> 00:32:14,260
Instead I would sell my kidneys
to fight this.
688
00:32:15,660 --> 00:32:20,380
Oh, I think it's a very dangerous
thing to underestimate all mothers,
689
00:32:20,380 --> 00:32:23,940
but particularly mothers
of children with disabilities.
690
00:32:23,940 --> 00:32:26,180
I think they've messed
with the wrong women.
691
00:32:27,700 --> 00:32:30,540
Four Corners is aware
of another allegation
692
00:32:30,540 --> 00:32:33,060
that QFG
used the wrong sperm
693
00:32:33,060 --> 00:32:34,580
to conceive children.
694
00:32:34,580 --> 00:32:37,060
Queensland's Office
of the Health Ombudsman
695
00:32:37,060 --> 00:32:39,500
is investigating
both complaints
696
00:32:39,500 --> 00:32:41,060
as well as systemic issues
697
00:32:41,060 --> 00:32:44,460
across the state's
entire fertility industry.
698
00:32:44,460 --> 00:32:44,740
In the end,
if mistakes have been made,
across the state's
entire fertility industry.
699
00:32:44,740 --> 00:32:47,060
In the end,
if mistakes have been made,
700
00:32:47,060 --> 00:32:49,500
they will be unearthed
at some point.
701
00:32:49,500 --> 00:32:49,740
they will be unearthed
at some point.
And bad publicity...
702
00:32:49,740 --> 00:32:50,980
And bad publicity...
703
00:32:50,980 --> 00:32:52,660
No-one wants bad publicity,
704
00:32:52,660 --> 00:32:57,820
so, denial, I guess, is perhaps one
way of trying to avoid a problem,
705
00:32:57,820 --> 00:33:02,740
but in the end it will probably come
back and, you know, bite you anyway.
706
00:33:06,100 --> 00:33:12,580
Single mum Danielle Patorniti is
fighting her own battle against QFG.
707
00:33:12,580 --> 00:33:14,580
DANIELLE PATORNITI:
When you have a clinic
708
00:33:14,580 --> 00:33:19,260
that continues to be deceitful
and not tell full stories,
709
00:33:19,260 --> 00:33:21,860
that's what
really, really annoys me.
710
00:33:21,860 --> 00:33:24,940
She's on her way
to meet two other women
711
00:33:24,940 --> 00:33:30,260
who she's discovered used the same
sperm donor to start their families.
712
00:33:33,300 --> 00:33:35,980
Between them they have four kids,
713
00:33:35,980 --> 00:33:39,020
all offspring of the same donor.
714
00:33:39,980 --> 00:33:43,500
The half-siblings
have almost identical disabilities,
715
00:33:43,500 --> 00:33:43,740
The half-siblings
including moderate to severe autism.
716
00:33:43,740 --> 00:33:47,100
including moderate to severe autism.
717
00:33:48,340 --> 00:33:50,900
Has there been any admission from QFG
718
00:33:50,900 --> 00:33:56,140
that this is genetically linked
to the donor potentially?
719
00:33:56,140 --> 00:33:56,380
QFG deny everything.
that this is genetically linked
to the donor potentially?
720
00:33:56,380 --> 00:33:59,020
QFG deny everything.
721
00:33:59,020 --> 00:34:01,700
Even with three different mothers,
722
00:34:01,700 --> 00:34:01,900
Even with three different mothers,
the same donor,
723
00:34:01,900 --> 00:34:04,380
the same donor,
724
00:34:04,380 --> 00:34:08,340
four children
with allied health reports
725
00:34:08,340 --> 00:34:08,580
four children
that pretty much read word-for-word
726
00:34:08,580 --> 00:34:11,060
that pretty much read word-for-word
727
00:34:11,060 --> 00:34:13,220
there's still no admission
728
00:34:13,220 --> 00:34:13,460
that it's anything to do
there's still no admission
729
00:34:13,460 --> 00:34:15,940
that it's anything to do
with what they're selling.
730
00:34:18,580 --> 00:34:21,660
Danielle first realised
there was a potential issue
731
00:34:21,660 --> 00:34:21,900
Danielle first realised
with QFG's sperm donor
732
00:34:21,900 --> 00:34:24,140
with QFG's sperm donor
733
00:34:24,140 --> 00:34:27,380
when she connected online
with single mum Nikita.
734
00:34:27,380 --> 00:34:28,420
Hi!
Hi.
735
00:34:28,420 --> 00:34:31,660
Nice to finally meet you.
You too!
736
00:34:31,660 --> 00:34:33,900
Come and take a seat.
Thanks!
737
00:34:34,940 --> 00:34:38,820
The women
haven't met face to face before.
738
00:34:39,980 --> 00:34:42,580
What has it been,
like, three years or something?
739
00:34:42,580 --> 00:34:46,380
But they've been swapping
medical information about their sons
740
00:34:46,380 --> 00:34:46,620
But they've been swapping
since 2021.
741
00:34:46,620 --> 00:34:48,180
since 2021.
742
00:34:48,180 --> 00:34:49,900
Have you heard from QFG?
743
00:34:49,900 --> 00:34:51,660
We actually did a comparison.
744
00:34:51,660 --> 00:34:57,540
So, we actually wrote down my son's
conditions, her son's conditions,
745
00:34:57,540 --> 00:35:01,900
and we were like,
"It's like looking in the mirror."
746
00:35:01,900 --> 00:35:02,140
and we were like,
Yes, called this morning...
747
00:35:02,140 --> 00:35:03,420
Yes, called this morning...
748
00:35:03,420 --> 00:35:03,660
Concerned it was more
Yes, called this morning...
749
00:35:03,660 --> 00:35:06,380
Concerned it was more
than a coincidence,
750
00:35:06,380 --> 00:35:06,620
Concerned it was more
Danielle and Nikita asked QFG
751
00:35:06,620 --> 00:35:09,220
Danielle and Nikita asked QFG
752
00:35:09,220 --> 00:35:13,180
to share information about
their sons' matching health issues
753
00:35:13,180 --> 00:35:15,180
with other families.
754
00:35:15,180 --> 00:35:15,420
We begged them at different points,
phone calls, emails,
with other families.
755
00:35:15,420 --> 00:35:20,220
We begged them at different points,
phone calls, emails,
756
00:35:20,220 --> 00:35:20,460
We begged them at different points,
just asking, "Can you, please,
757
00:35:20,460 --> 00:35:21,860
just asking, "Can you, please,
758
00:35:21,860 --> 00:35:22,060
just asking, "Can you, please,
"pass this information along?"
759
00:35:22,060 --> 00:35:23,340
"pass this information along?"
760
00:35:23,340 --> 00:35:23,580
Sharing how important
"pass this information along?"
761
00:35:23,580 --> 00:35:25,820
Sharing how important
early intervention is,
762
00:35:25,820 --> 00:35:29,500
sharing that, "Yes, we understand we
haven't got a proven genetic link,
763
00:35:29,500 --> 00:35:33,340
"but what's the harm
in sharing this information?"
764
00:35:33,340 --> 00:35:34,740
Hello?!
765
00:35:36,020 --> 00:35:37,500
Hi!
Hi! How are you going?
766
00:35:37,500 --> 00:35:39,860
Good! How are you? You're taller
than I thought you would be.
767
00:35:39,860 --> 00:35:41,020
(LAUGHTER)
768
00:35:41,020 --> 00:35:42,580
I have to stand on my tippy toes.
769
00:35:42,580 --> 00:35:43,860
(LAUGHTER)
770
00:35:43,860 --> 00:35:44,100
Hello. How are you?
(LAUGHTER)
771
00:35:44,100 --> 00:35:46,460
Hello. How are you?
Good! How are you?
772
00:35:46,460 --> 00:35:46,700
Hello. How are you?
Good!
773
00:35:46,700 --> 00:35:47,460
Good!
774
00:35:47,460 --> 00:35:51,220
Then late last year
they found Maree.
775
00:35:51,220 --> 00:35:55,660
Her daughter had recently
been diagnosed with autism,
776
00:35:55,660 --> 00:35:59,940
and her four-year-old son's diagnosis
was pending.
777
00:35:59,940 --> 00:36:03,260
When Maree told me
about her children,
778
00:36:03,260 --> 00:36:03,500
When Maree told me
I literally felt sick.
779
00:36:03,500 --> 00:36:05,180
I literally felt sick.
780
00:36:05,180 --> 00:36:08,220
I had goosebumps all over my arms.
781
00:36:09,540 --> 00:36:14,020
It just felt like for those three
years that we had been fighting
782
00:36:14,020 --> 00:36:14,260
It just felt like for those three
was sort of like just...
783
00:36:14,260 --> 00:36:17,380
was sort of like just...
784
00:36:17,380 --> 00:36:21,420
Yeah, she'd missed out
on those years.
785
00:36:21,420 --> 00:36:24,500
So, during those years
that you're advocating,
786
00:36:24,500 --> 00:36:27,420
pushing for QFG
to tell other families,
787
00:36:27,420 --> 00:36:27,660
pushing for QFG
Maree was none the wiser?
788
00:36:27,660 --> 00:36:29,260
Maree was none the wiser?
789
00:36:29,260 --> 00:36:29,500
Yeah. It was quite horrifying,
Maree was none the wiser?
790
00:36:29,500 --> 00:36:32,740
Yeah. It was quite horrifying,
to be honest.
791
00:36:32,740 --> 00:36:33,020
And, you know, I wouldn't
change my kids for the world.
Yeah. It was quite horrifying,
to be honest.
792
00:36:33,020 --> 00:36:35,020
And, you know, I wouldn't
change my kids for the world.
793
00:36:35,020 --> 00:36:35,260
And, you know, I wouldn't
I love them and I'm so grateful.
794
00:36:35,260 --> 00:36:37,140
I love them and I'm so grateful.
795
00:36:37,140 --> 00:36:39,100
I went through a lot to have them.
796
00:36:41,020 --> 00:36:43,900
But I feel
that all of the information
797
00:36:43,900 --> 00:36:44,140
But I feel
that could have been shared
798
00:36:44,140 --> 00:36:45,660
that could have been shared
799
00:36:45,660 --> 00:36:48,420
has not been shared...
800
00:36:48,420 --> 00:36:49,380
..to me.
801
00:36:49,380 --> 00:36:51,020
Is that frustrating?
802
00:36:51,020 --> 00:36:52,460
Yeah, it's frustrating.
803
00:36:52,460 --> 00:36:57,820
It's really... I mean, our children
all share half of the same DNA.
804
00:36:57,820 --> 00:37:00,260
They're all experiencing
similar challenges.
805
00:37:00,260 --> 00:37:04,260
I don't think the duty of care
ends when the baby is born.
806
00:37:04,260 --> 00:37:09,940
Have you asked QFG why you weren't
informed about the other two boys?
807
00:37:09,940 --> 00:37:11,220
I have, yeah,
808
00:37:11,220 --> 00:37:14,980
and they've never specifically
answered that question, so...
809
00:37:14,980 --> 00:37:15,220
and they've never specifically
Yeah.
810
00:37:15,220 --> 00:37:16,180
Yeah.
811
00:37:16,180 --> 00:37:20,140
(RAIN PATTERS)
812
00:37:20,140 --> 00:37:22,020
QFG has told Four Corners
813
00:37:22,020 --> 00:37:25,740
it's geneticists advised them
there was no clinical requirement
814
00:37:25,740 --> 00:37:25,980
it's geneticists advised them
to notify other families
815
00:37:25,980 --> 00:37:27,580
to notify other families
816
00:37:27,580 --> 00:37:32,180
about the diagnoses
of Danielle and Nikita's boys.
817
00:37:32,180 --> 00:37:35,820
It wasn't until months
after Maree contacted the clinic
818
00:37:35,820 --> 00:37:36,060
It wasn't until months
about HER children
819
00:37:36,060 --> 00:37:37,540
about HER children
820
00:37:37,540 --> 00:37:40,620
that QFG decided
it would advise patients,
821
00:37:40,620 --> 00:37:40,860
that QFG decided
but only about the autism diagnosis.
822
00:37:40,860 --> 00:37:43,780
but only about the autism diagnosis.
823
00:37:46,140 --> 00:37:48,580
But, following further questions,
824
00:37:48,580 --> 00:37:50,980
QFG conceded to Four Corners
825
00:37:50,980 --> 00:37:51,220
that there is still one family
QFG conceded to Four Corners
826
00:37:51,220 --> 00:37:55,060
that there is still one family
it hasn't informed.
827
00:37:56,020 --> 00:38:00,420
There is apparently
someone that's pregnant
828
00:38:00,420 --> 00:38:00,660
There is apparently
and there's three embryos
829
00:38:00,660 --> 00:38:02,500
and there's three embryos
830
00:38:02,500 --> 00:38:02,700
and there's three embryos
that have been created
831
00:38:02,700 --> 00:38:03,980
that have been created
832
00:38:03,980 --> 00:38:05,820
sitting in a freezer
833
00:38:05,820 --> 00:38:08,820
ready to make
another three families.
834
00:38:08,820 --> 00:38:13,100
So, there are still children now
being born...
835
00:38:13,100 --> 00:38:14,860
Yes.
..by using this donor?
836
00:38:14,860 --> 00:38:15,100
Yes.
Yes.
837
00:38:15,100 --> 00:38:15,980
Yes.
838
00:38:17,580 --> 00:38:22,060
After us fighting and pleading
and carrying on
839
00:38:22,060 --> 00:38:22,300
After us fighting and pleading
for years and years on end...
840
00:38:22,300 --> 00:38:25,100
for years and years on end...
841
00:38:26,060 --> 00:38:28,980
..the semen
has never been destroyed.
842
00:38:28,980 --> 00:38:29,220
..the semen
It's continuing to be sold
843
00:38:29,220 --> 00:38:31,740
It's continuing to be sold
844
00:38:31,740 --> 00:38:35,940
as probably
gold-class Australian sperm.
845
00:38:35,940 --> 00:38:39,420
I just don't understand
how they can create kids
846
00:38:39,420 --> 00:38:40,980
with something
that there's a higher chance
847
00:38:40,980 --> 00:38:41,220
with something
of it turning into disability.
848
00:38:41,220 --> 00:38:44,100
of it turning into disability.
849
00:38:44,100 --> 00:38:46,820
It's just money. That's all it is.
850
00:38:47,780 --> 00:38:53,380
QFG says the donor sperm is still
available for family extension -
851
00:38:53,380 --> 00:38:57,060
in other words, for patients
who've already used the donor
852
00:38:57,060 --> 00:38:57,300
in other words, for patients
and want more children.
853
00:38:57,300 --> 00:38:59,140
and want more children.
854
00:38:59,140 --> 00:39:02,700
Why wouldn't the clinic
stop using a sperm donor
855
00:39:02,700 --> 00:39:04,340
in those circumstances?
856
00:39:04,340 --> 00:39:04,540
I can't quite understand that.
in those circumstances?
857
00:39:04,540 --> 00:39:07,260
I can't quite understand that.
858
00:39:07,260 --> 00:39:09,060
It would seem...
859
00:39:09,060 --> 00:39:10,900
Unless it is proven
860
00:39:10,900 --> 00:39:11,140
Unless it is proven
that it's not linked
to the sperm donor,
861
00:39:11,140 --> 00:39:13,700
that it's not linked
to the sperm donor,
862
00:39:13,700 --> 00:39:15,900
I think you have to presume
that it might be.
863
00:39:15,900 --> 00:39:16,140
I think you have to presume
Starting in 10.
864
00:39:16,140 --> 00:39:18,100
Starting in 10.
865
00:39:18,100 --> 00:39:21,220
(BABY SQUEALS)
866
00:39:21,220 --> 00:39:24,660
Set yourself up. You can do
your split stance or you can jog.
867
00:39:25,980 --> 00:39:27,580
Alright, let's go.
868
00:39:28,540 --> 00:39:33,100
10 months on from
Genea destroying her two embryos,
869
00:39:33,100 --> 00:39:36,020
Vikki is trying her best
to stay optimistic.
870
00:39:36,020 --> 00:39:36,260
Vikki is trying her best
OK, going into your hooks!
871
00:39:36,260 --> 00:39:38,980
OK, going into your hooks!
872
00:39:38,980 --> 00:39:40,260
What have you got?!
873
00:39:42,740 --> 00:39:44,780
Step and pass!
874
00:39:44,780 --> 00:39:45,940
Ready? Where's Mum?!
875
00:39:45,940 --> 00:39:47,460
But time is precious.
876
00:39:47,460 --> 00:39:50,260
She's now
with a new fertility clinic
877
00:39:50,260 --> 00:39:53,860
after turning down
Genea's offer of a free cycle
878
00:39:53,860 --> 00:39:55,180
through the public system.
879
00:39:55,180 --> 00:39:57,020
Alright, have a rest, guys!
880
00:39:58,140 --> 00:40:01,660
(PHONE RINGS)
881
00:40:01,660 --> 00:40:02,940
Hello? Vikki speaking.
882
00:40:02,940 --> 00:40:06,660
Today Vikki is receiving the results
of a blood test
883
00:40:06,660 --> 00:40:10,540
to see if she can go ahead
with another IVF cycle.
884
00:40:10,540 --> 00:40:10,780
to see if she can go ahead
(SIGHS HEAVILY)
885
00:40:10,780 --> 00:40:12,700
(SIGHS HEAVILY)
886
00:40:12,700 --> 00:40:13,740
Gosh.
887
00:40:13,740 --> 00:40:15,700
OK. Yep. Bye.
888
00:40:19,420 --> 00:40:21,140
Hey, Chris?!
889
00:40:22,420 --> 00:40:24,620
(SIGHS) Not starting.
890
00:40:25,540 --> 00:40:27,260
Not starting?
Nah.
891
00:40:29,580 --> 00:40:31,180
More bad news.
892
00:40:34,060 --> 00:40:35,540
God.
893
00:40:36,580 --> 00:40:38,580
(CRIES)
894
00:40:38,580 --> 00:40:39,940
Hang in there.
895
00:40:42,420 --> 00:40:46,260
(CRIES) It's just annoying.
896
00:40:46,260 --> 00:40:46,500
It's one thing after another,
(CRIES) It's just annoying.
897
00:40:46,500 --> 00:40:48,740
It's one thing after another,
isn't it?
898
00:40:48,740 --> 00:40:53,780
Oh! It takes forever to get back
to the bloody starting line.
899
00:40:56,940 --> 00:40:59,140
(CRIES)
900
00:41:02,300 --> 00:41:03,780
Hang in there, babes.
901
00:41:03,780 --> 00:41:06,300
AMELIA HAWKSHAW:
The trauma is still there, but...
902
00:41:06,300 --> 00:41:06,540
AMELIA HAWKSHAW:
..yeah, we're hoping to be moving on
903
00:41:06,540 --> 00:41:10,700
..yeah, we're hoping to be moving on
904
00:41:10,700 --> 00:41:13,300
with growing our family,
905
00:41:13,300 --> 00:41:14,820
which we're really excited about.
906
00:41:16,260 --> 00:41:18,140
Yeah, and...
907
00:41:18,140 --> 00:41:19,740
Can I share my good news?
908
00:41:19,740 --> 00:41:21,500
I would love you
to share your good news.
909
00:41:21,500 --> 00:41:21,740
I would love you
Are you OK if I share this...
910
00:41:21,740 --> 00:41:23,380
Are you OK if I share this...
911
00:41:23,380 --> 00:41:25,060
OK, cool.
912
00:41:25,060 --> 00:41:29,980
We're really pleased that we are
actually pregnant at the moment.
913
00:41:29,980 --> 00:41:30,220
We're really pleased that we are
So, we're expecting in November,
914
00:41:30,220 --> 00:41:32,460
So, we're expecting in November,
915
00:41:32,460 --> 00:41:35,620
which is really huge for us.
916
00:41:36,580 --> 00:41:37,820
Congratulations.
917
00:41:37,820 --> 00:41:39,620
Thank you. (LAUGHS)
918
00:41:43,060 --> 00:41:47,380
Sophie and Josh
are also expecting their second child
919
00:41:47,380 --> 00:41:47,620
Sophie and Josh
at the end of the year.
920
00:41:47,620 --> 00:41:49,260
at the end of the year.
921
00:41:50,300 --> 00:41:53,460
Wonderful to have a nephew
coming soon.
922
00:41:54,420 --> 00:41:58,900
I think what's important to me now
is that...
923
00:42:00,020 --> 00:42:03,380
..that patients
are supported in the future
924
00:42:03,380 --> 00:42:06,620
if something like this
were to ever happen again.
925
00:42:07,740 --> 00:42:12,380
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
926
00:42:17,660 --> 00:42:21,180
It's an important day
for Sophie and Amelia.
927
00:42:21,180 --> 00:42:22,780
This is a good day.
This is an exciting day.
928
00:42:22,780 --> 00:42:23,020
This is a good day.
Yes.
929
00:42:23,020 --> 00:42:24,020
Yes.
930
00:42:26,620 --> 00:42:29,780
They're meeting Vikki
at New South Wales Parliament...
931
00:42:29,780 --> 00:42:30,020
They're meeting Vikki
Hi!
932
00:42:30,020 --> 00:42:30,780
Hi!
933
00:42:30,780 --> 00:42:36,220
..hoping they'll finally gain access
to Genea's investigation findings.
934
00:42:36,220 --> 00:42:38,460
Hey.
Ohh!
935
00:42:38,460 --> 00:42:40,180
We're here!
It's been way too long.
936
00:42:40,180 --> 00:42:42,340
(LAUGHS) How are you?!
Good!
937
00:42:42,340 --> 00:42:44,620
They've all invested so much hope
938
00:42:44,620 --> 00:42:48,100
that the parliamentary process
will force Genea's hand.
939
00:42:48,100 --> 00:42:50,020
Shall we?
Let's.
940
00:42:51,420 --> 00:42:53,780
I'm so excited!
941
00:42:55,700 --> 00:42:57,380
JACQUI MUNRO:
Hello. It's so good to meet you.
942
00:42:57,380 --> 00:42:58,780
I'm Jacqui Munro.
Amelia.
943
00:42:58,780 --> 00:42:59,860
Amelia. Lovely to meet you.
You too.
944
00:42:59,860 --> 00:43:00,860
Sophie.
Sophie.
945
00:43:00,860 --> 00:43:03,140
Thank you so much for coming in.
I really appreciate it.
946
00:43:03,140 --> 00:43:03,380
Thank you so much for coming in.
But Liberal MP Jacqui Munro
947
00:43:03,380 --> 00:43:06,180
But Liberal MP Jacqui Munro
948
00:43:06,180 --> 00:43:06,420
doesn't deliver the news
But Liberal MP Jacqui Munro
949
00:43:06,420 --> 00:43:09,140
doesn't deliver the news
they're anticipating.
950
00:43:09,140 --> 00:43:09,380
doesn't deliver the news
Essentially, the government
951
00:43:09,380 --> 00:43:11,420
Essentially, the government
952
00:43:11,420 --> 00:43:15,940
has declined to provide
further information from Genea.
953
00:43:15,940 --> 00:43:20,020
So, at this stage we've asked
for the root cause analysis report,
954
00:43:20,020 --> 00:43:22,900
but the government
haven't pressed Genea
955
00:43:22,900 --> 00:43:25,220
to actually release
that information.
956
00:43:26,180 --> 00:43:27,580
It's so important that we get...
957
00:43:27,580 --> 00:43:28,860
The women are told
958
00:43:28,860 --> 00:43:33,420
Genea has raised significant concerns
with New South Wales Health
959
00:43:33,420 --> 00:43:38,340
about the public release
of the root cause analysis.
960
00:43:38,340 --> 00:43:39,780
The reason that it's so important
961
00:43:39,780 --> 00:43:41,620
that we have these documents,
of course,
962
00:43:41,620 --> 00:43:45,180
is because when the public system
partners with the private system
963
00:43:45,180 --> 00:43:48,260
there must be accountability
and transparency
964
00:43:48,260 --> 00:43:49,780
in that agreement
and that arrangement.
965
00:43:49,780 --> 00:43:50,020
in that agreement
We know that the taxpayers...
966
00:43:50,020 --> 00:43:50,980
We know that the taxpayers...
967
00:43:50,980 --> 00:43:53,820
They're no closer
to finding out the truth.
968
00:43:53,820 --> 00:43:55,700
Of course,
what does this RCA have in it
969
00:43:55,700 --> 00:43:59,460
that they're trying so hard
to prevent us from seeing?
970
00:43:59,460 --> 00:44:04,220
For them, the lack of transparency
is crushing.
971
00:44:04,220 --> 00:44:10,500
So exhausting that 10 months later
we're still at this point.
972
00:44:10,500 --> 00:44:11,500
It's OK.
Sorry.
973
00:44:11,500 --> 00:44:11,740
It's OK.
It's alright.
974
00:44:11,740 --> 00:44:12,580
It's alright.
975
00:44:12,580 --> 00:44:14,580
It's frustrating. (CRIES)
Take a breath. I know.
976
00:44:14,580 --> 00:44:16,500
Can we get some tissues?
Yeah.
977
00:44:17,580 --> 00:44:18,620
OK.
978
00:44:18,620 --> 00:44:20,100
(CRIES)
979
00:44:20,100 --> 00:44:21,100
I know.
980
00:44:21,100 --> 00:44:21,340
It's exhausting
I know.
981
00:44:21,340 --> 00:44:24,540
It's exhausting
and it's frustrating.
982
00:44:24,540 --> 00:44:24,780
It's exhausting
I want to keep going if we can.
983
00:44:24,780 --> 00:44:27,540
I want to keep going if we can.
984
00:44:27,540 --> 00:44:28,580
Yeah.
985
00:44:29,700 --> 00:44:31,180
We're not going away.
986
00:44:31,180 --> 00:44:32,220
(CHUCKLES WEAKLY)
987
00:44:33,860 --> 00:44:37,220
If it takes going to Parliament,
if it takes going to court,
988
00:44:37,220 --> 00:44:37,460
If it takes going to Parliament,
we're not going away.
989
00:44:37,460 --> 00:44:38,980
we're not going away.
990
00:45:17,900 --> 00:45:19,940
(THEME MUSIC PLAYS)
991
00:45:35,060 --> 00:45:36,820
Captions by Red Bee Media
992
00:45:36,820 --> 00:45:37,060
Copyright
Australian Broadcasting Corporation
Captions by Red Bee Media
993
00:45:37,060 --> 00:45:39,020
Copyright
Australian Broadcasting Corporation