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(THEME MUSIC PLAYS)
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AVANI DIAS: For two and a half years
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I was the ABC's
South Asia correspondent.
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One of the first things that hit me
when I arrived in India
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One of the first things that hit me
was the passion for this man,
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was the passion for this man,
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Narendra Modi.
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(CHEERING)
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I mean, look at this popularity
that Narendra Modi has.
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The crowd is going absolutely crazy.
CROWD: (CHANTS) Modi! Modi! Modi!
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And it feels like
the biggest rock star in the world
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has just arrived.
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As prime minister
of an emerging superpower,
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As prime minister
Modi's courted like a god,
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Modi's courted like a god,
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including in Australia.
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Prime Minister Modi is the boss!
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(CHEERING)
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But Modi does not tolerate
accountability.
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(PHONE LINE RINGS)
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He's gone square...
looked at us in the face and said,
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"You are the most hostile foreign
organisation in India right now."
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They're not going to extend my visa.
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And his government's accused
of assassinating dissidents overseas.
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MONINDER SINGH: I heard a panicked
voice on the other side saying,
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"They've shot Hardeep."
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Now we've uncovered
the long arm of the Indian state
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here in Australia...
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We're from the ABC's Four Corners.
Don't shoot, don't shoot.
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It's not the conduct
you'd expect from a friendly nation.
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..waging a secret war and threatening
Australia's national security.
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Insane.
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Australia is nothing.
Do you know the size of India?
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So, next time,
Australia is nothing.
shut up and show respect.
Do you know the size of India?
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So, next time,
shut up and show respect.
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(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
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(BIRDS TWITTER)
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Over 600 million people in India
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are about to vote
for their prime minister.
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It's a story
I've always wanted to cover...
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Pack.
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..but my partner and I are leaving.
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Well, we are packing up our house
in Delhi.
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It's gotten to this point
where we're running out of time now.
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It's just two days
before my visa expires,
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and it's a real struggle
to get any answers
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and it's a real struggle
about what's actually going on.
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about what's actually going on.
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And we just have no choice now
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but to actually pack up our lives
and leave the country.
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Last month, I got a call
from a government official
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saying my reporting
had crossed a line.
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He said a story I'd done
was "beyond extreme."
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He said a story I'd done
It was a shock.
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It was a shock.
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But when I really interrogate what's
happened to India in the past decade
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But when I really interrogate what's
under Narendra Modi,
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under Narendra Modi,
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I'm not surprised.
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(TRAFFIC BUZZES, HORNS BEEP)
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During Modi's 10-year reign
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India's middle class has grown.
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He says he's lifted hundreds
of millions out of poverty.
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CROWD: (CHANTS) Modi! Modi! Modi!
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CROWD: (CHANTS) Modi! Modi! Modi!
Modi! Modi!
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Modi! Modi!
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Modi! Modi! Modi!
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Modi! Modi!
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Wherever you go, you find spick and
span roads, good infrastructure.
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(CROWD CHANTS IN HINDI)
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CROWD: (CHANTS) Modi! Modi! Modi!
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Modi! Modi! Modi!
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Modi! Modi! Modi! Modi! Modi!
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(MILITARY MUSIC PLAYS)
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At age eight
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Modi joined the far-right
Hindu nationalist organisation
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the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh,
or the RSS.
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(WHISTLE BLOWS)
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PRIYA CHACKO:
The RSS is commonly described
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as a far-right
paramilitary organisation.
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as a far-right
It was formed in the 1920s
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It was formed in the 1920s
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and it was inspired
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by German Nazism
and Italian fascism.
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SONG: # Namaste... #
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The RSS
rejects secular India
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and wants it to be a Hindu state.
rejects secular India
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and wants it to be a Hindu state.
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It's the largest
far-right organisation in the world
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with millions of members.
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Modi's ruling party, the BJP,
grew out of the RSS.
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Modi was a long-time RSS member.
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Most of the BJP's top leadership
have a history in the RSS,
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so, he went through the paramilitary
training, the indoctrination.
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(CHEERING)
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Supporters say these organisations
are reclaiming a lost Hindu identity.
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Others criticise them
for politicising the religion.
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Others criticise them
(CHEERING)
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(CHEERING)
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The BJP seeks to conflate
(CHEERING)
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The BJP seeks to conflate
a very pluralistic religion
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The BJP seeks to conflate
into a very narrow form.
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into a very narrow form.
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India is a very diverse country.
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Modi's ideology
wants to diminish all of that.
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Modi's pushed Hindu supremacy
and ultra nationalism,
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but claims
democracy is still strong in India.
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Democracy is the spirit
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that supports equality and dignity.
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(APPLAUSE)
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India is blessed to have such values
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from times immemorial.
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In the evolution
of the democratic spirit,
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In the evolution
India is the mother of democracy.
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India is the mother of democracy.
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Thank you.
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(CHEERING, APPLAUSE)
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But he's hardened his stance
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against minorities, dissidents
and freedom of speech.
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Mandeep Punia is part of India's
enormous media landscape.
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Mandeep Punia is part of India's
(SPEAKS IN HINDI)
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(SPEAKS IN HINDI)
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(KNOCKS)
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Hello!
Hello. How are you?
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Mandeep?
Yeah.
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Mandeep?
Avani. Nice to meet you.
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Avani. Nice to meet you.
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In 2021 he was jailed
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after reporting a story
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claiming a BJP worker and affiliate
attacked protesters
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with a petrol bomb.
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Police accused Mandeep of obstructing
an officer at the protest.
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(TRAFFIC DRONES, HORNS BEEP)
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(INAUDIBLE)
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Minorities like Sikhs and Muslims
also say they're being targeted.
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Modi's party has been accused
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of supporting demolitions
Modi's party has been accused
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of supporting demolitions
of Muslim homes and mosques...
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..like Shabbana's place
in North Delhi.
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(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
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I quickly learned holding Modi
to account can land you in hot water.
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When I started reporting
on the death of a Sikh separatist,
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When I started reporting
things started getting difficult.
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things started getting difficult.
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Hi.
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I have to inform you
Hi.
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I have to inform you
that your permission was cancelled.
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I have to inform you
You need to give us a reason
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You need to give us a reason
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for why you've suddenly decided
not to allow us.
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for why you've suddenly decided
The reason I can't explain you that.
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The reason I can't explain you that.
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The Indian government blocked
my story on YouTube and Facebook
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The Indian government blocked
and it was quick to act against me.
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and it was quick to act against me.
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They're not going to extend my visa.
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Um...
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Honestly, pretty crazy.
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It feels weird
and it's disappointing.
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It feels weird
Um...
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Um...
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I actually can't quite believe
Um...
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I actually can't quite believe
that they're doing this,
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and it sets a really bad precedent
for India.
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and it sets a really bad precedent
(TRAFFIC BUZZES, HORNS BEEP)
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(TRAFFIC BUZZES, HORNS BEEP)
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I don't think there's much more
we can really do.
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The Australian government
started lobbying on my behalf.
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Hello?
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(SPEAKS IN HINDI)
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At the same time
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my colleague Meghna and I were
At the same time
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my colleague Meghna and I were
trying to organise our access passes
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my colleague Meghna and I were
for the election.
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for the election.
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Sir, elections
start on Friday.
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Sir, elections
We need the passes.
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We need the passes.
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So, what did they initially
We need the passes.
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So, what did they initially
say to you about the passes?
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What they've said is that
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the ministry
has given them a directive
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not to release the ABC's passes.
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He said, "Australian Broadcasting
is not to receive passes."
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He said, "Australian Broadcasting
So, he directly said that to you?
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So, he directly said that to you?
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He directly said that to me
this morning.
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(TRAFFIC BUZZES, HORNS BEEP)
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'Cause obviously you'll be travelling
with Meghna later this week,
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we've got our shoots this week...
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Meghna spoke to the BJP
about our coverage.
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We finally end up in a room
with someone who's a BJP spokesman.
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We finally end up in a room
We said, "We're from the ABC,"
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We said, "We're from the ABC,"
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and he sort of just looked at us
and he's gone square...
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..looked at us in the face and said,
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"You are the most hostile foreign
..looked at us in the face and said,
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"You are the most hostile foreign
organisation in India right now.
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"You are after us and
you have the most biased reporting."
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How do you feel about covering it
after that conversation?
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Getting that confirmation
straight from the horse's mouth?
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Getting that confirmation
I'm not going to lie, I was like...
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I'm not going to lie, I was like...
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For a second we were sort of like,
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"How are we going to get through
the next six weeks
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"in a balanced, factual way
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"if one half of the team
isn't talking to us
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"and that's the team
that's in power?"
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Eventually Meghna got her pass,
but mine didn't come through.
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The night before our flight home
to Australia
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The night before our flight home
I got a short visa extension,
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I got a short visa extension,
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but it was clear
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I wasn't getting access
to cover the election properly,
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I wasn't getting access
so, I decided to leave.
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so, I decided to leave.
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Well, I'm in the terminal in Delhi,
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made it through security
and immigration.
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I don't like that this intimidation
is getting to me,
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but the last few weeks
have been so stressful,
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but the last few weeks
it's been so unsettling,
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it's been so unsettling,
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and I'm ready to go home.
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I arrived home to a media storm.
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ARCHIVE REPORTER:
Avani Dias, Australian...
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Outlets sympathetic to the Modi
government started discrediting me.
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This ABC journalist
also has a track record
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of peddling anti-Hindu propaganda,
which could be...
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Australia is nothing.
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You're nothing.
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Do you know the size of India?
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So, next time,
shut up and show respect.
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You're talking about
the Prime Minister of India.
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Yeah, you can go and abuse
the Prime Minister of Australia
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Yeah, you can go and abuse
for all you like, I don't care.
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for all you like, I don't care.
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When you talk about
for all you like, I don't care.
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When you talk about
the Prime Minister of India,
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00:13:34,580 --> 00:13:34,820
When you talk about
you do so with respect.
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you do so with respect.
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And don't give me this nonsense
about media freedom.
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And don't give me this nonsense
What you're writing is lies.
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What you're writing is lies.
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The Australian government response
was muted.
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It said it appreciated
India's assistance
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in eventually granting me a visa.
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As I settled in back home,
248
00:13:58,700 --> 00:14:03,700
I discovered the Modi government's
tentacles stretch into Australia.
249
00:14:06,300 --> 00:14:07,660
To understand it
250
00:14:07,660 --> 00:14:10,500
you need to know
two of the main organisations
251
00:14:10,500 --> 00:14:14,260
that hold up
the Hindu nationalist movement -
252
00:14:14,260 --> 00:14:18,540
the RSS, described
as a far-right paramilitary group,
253
00:14:18,540 --> 00:14:22,380
and Modi's more mainstream
political party, the BJP.
254
00:14:23,340 --> 00:14:27,940
I found out these groups have sister
Hindu nationalist organisations
255
00:14:27,940 --> 00:14:30,300
operating in Australia.
256
00:14:32,700 --> 00:14:36,060
(BIRDS SQUAWK)
257
00:14:36,060 --> 00:14:38,620
(BIRDS TWITTER)
258
00:14:43,380 --> 00:14:45,660
I've come to a part of western Sydney
259
00:14:45,660 --> 00:14:49,140
where many Hindus
practise their faith.
260
00:14:50,180 --> 00:14:52,420
So, what would you usually do
at the river here?
261
00:14:52,420 --> 00:14:56,420
Well, we'd have the conclusion
of the Ganesha festival,
262
00:14:56,420 --> 00:14:57,620
and they bring the idols...
263
00:14:57,620 --> 00:15:01,140
Arjun Nidigallu
was an HSS camp leader.
264
00:15:01,140 --> 00:15:05,380
His parents signed him up
when he was a kid.
265
00:15:05,380 --> 00:15:05,620
His parents signed him up
My parents, like most migrants,
266
00:15:05,620 --> 00:15:06,860
My parents, like most migrants,
267
00:15:06,860 --> 00:15:07,100
were concerned
My parents, like most migrants,
268
00:15:07,100 --> 00:15:08,860
were concerned
that I wasn't getting,
269
00:15:08,860 --> 00:15:09,100
were concerned
like, a cultural upbringing,
270
00:15:09,100 --> 00:15:10,420
like, a cultural upbringing,
271
00:15:10,420 --> 00:15:12,100
and, so,
they'd send me to these camps.
272
00:15:13,060 --> 00:15:17,460
The HSS has at least 30 branches
across Australia.
273
00:15:17,460 --> 00:15:21,380
Arjun says
for years it felt harmless.
274
00:15:21,380 --> 00:15:21,620
Arjun says
There are people you meet
275
00:15:21,620 --> 00:15:22,860
There are people you meet
276
00:15:22,860 --> 00:15:23,100
who go through similar issues
There are people you meet
277
00:15:23,100 --> 00:15:26,220
who go through similar issues
around racism and bullying,
278
00:15:26,220 --> 00:15:29,980
and you come back
feeling like you're not alone,
279
00:15:29,980 --> 00:15:30,220
and you come back
and that was a big thing.
280
00:15:30,220 --> 00:15:31,740
and that was a big thing.
281
00:15:31,740 --> 00:15:33,380
Where I was more involved...
282
00:15:33,380 --> 00:15:36,380
Eventually, he helped run the camps.
283
00:15:36,380 --> 00:15:38,140
What was the final straw for you
284
00:15:38,140 --> 00:15:41,580
that made you want to leave
all of these organisations?
285
00:15:41,580 --> 00:15:41,820
that made you want to leave
It was a festival event,
286
00:15:41,820 --> 00:15:43,260
It was a festival event,
287
00:15:43,260 --> 00:15:44,900
a lot of young children,
288
00:15:44,900 --> 00:15:47,380
and children as young as seven
were playing tug of war
289
00:15:47,380 --> 00:15:49,900
as part of the games
they were playing for the festival,
290
00:15:49,900 --> 00:15:53,060
and they were instructed
to shout a slogan repetitively
291
00:15:53,060 --> 00:15:53,300
and they were instructed
as they played tug of war.
292
00:15:53,300 --> 00:15:54,660
as they played tug of war.
293
00:15:54,660 --> 00:15:56,940
Um... And in Hindi
it goes like this,
294
00:15:56,940 --> 00:15:57,180
Um... And in Hindi
it goes, "Hindustaan Hinduon kahai,"
295
00:15:57,180 --> 00:15:59,700
it goes, "Hindustaan Hinduon kahai,"
296
00:15:59,700 --> 00:15:59,940
which means, "Hindustan," or India,
it goes, "Hindustaan Hinduon kahai,"
297
00:15:59,940 --> 00:16:04,220
which means, "Hindustan," or India,
"belongs to the Hindus."
298
00:16:04,220 --> 00:16:08,820
And you've got young kids who...
and I knew these kids,
299
00:16:08,820 --> 00:16:11,340
they didn't speak
anything but English.
300
00:16:11,340 --> 00:16:13,580
And that image
just didn't sit well with me.
301
00:16:13,580 --> 00:16:15,820
And, no matter how hard you try,
302
00:16:15,820 --> 00:16:19,540
the toxicity eventually
trickles down to the children.
303
00:16:19,540 --> 00:16:19,780
the toxicity eventually
And that was my last event
304
00:16:19,780 --> 00:16:22,900
And that was my last event
305
00:16:22,900 --> 00:16:23,140
and I had to walk away from that
And that was my last event
306
00:16:23,140 --> 00:16:25,460
and I had to walk away from that
after that.
307
00:16:29,540 --> 00:16:31,540
So, this is your studio?
308
00:16:31,540 --> 00:16:31,780
Welcome to the studio. (CHUCKLES)
So, this is your studio?
309
00:16:31,780 --> 00:16:34,260
Welcome to the studio. (CHUCKLES)
Nice.
310
00:16:34,260 --> 00:16:34,500
Welcome to the studio. (CHUCKLES)
It's been almost 10 years
311
00:16:34,500 --> 00:16:36,300
It's been almost 10 years
312
00:16:36,300 --> 00:16:40,820
since Arjun left the Hindu
nationalist movement in Australia.
313
00:16:40,820 --> 00:16:43,620
These organisations
have more or less taken a monopoly
314
00:16:43,620 --> 00:16:45,620
on what it is to be Hindu.
315
00:16:45,620 --> 00:16:50,460
You don't hear the voices
of those who are secular Hindus.
316
00:16:50,460 --> 00:16:53,140
So, we found a few videos
on social media
317
00:16:53,140 --> 00:16:53,380
So, we found a few videos
of the RSS shakhas and the camps,
318
00:16:53,380 --> 00:16:55,900
of the RSS shakhas and the camps,
319
00:16:55,900 --> 00:16:56,140
and I just wanted to kind of
of the RSS shakhas and the camps,
320
00:16:56,140 --> 00:16:59,460
and I just wanted to kind of
understand them a bit more.
321
00:16:59,460 --> 00:17:01,980
So, there's this one.
There's all these kids.
322
00:17:01,980 --> 00:17:04,580
Do you want to play this one?
Yeah, sure.
323
00:17:04,580 --> 00:17:04,820
Do you want to play this one?
Ha!
324
00:17:04,820 --> 00:17:05,580
Ha!
325
00:17:05,580 --> 00:17:06,660
Teen!
Ha!
326
00:17:06,660 --> 00:17:09,820
We've analysed dozens
of videos and photos
327
00:17:09,820 --> 00:17:10,060
We've analysed dozens
of Australian-Indian kids
328
00:17:10,060 --> 00:17:11,260
of Australian-Indian kids
329
00:17:11,260 --> 00:17:11,460
and adults
of Australian-Indian kids
330
00:17:11,460 --> 00:17:12,500
and adults
331
00:17:12,500 --> 00:17:13,900
at HSS camps.
332
00:17:14,860 --> 00:17:18,020
It looks normal,
but there's another side.
333
00:17:18,020 --> 00:17:19,660
These two framed photos,
they're the founders...
334
00:17:19,660 --> 00:17:23,820
At the camps there's a tribute
to two influential historical figures
335
00:17:23,820 --> 00:17:24,060
At the camps there's a tribute
in the Hindu nationalist movement.
336
00:17:24,060 --> 00:17:26,300
in the Hindu nationalist movement.
337
00:17:26,300 --> 00:17:28,300
One of them, MS Golwalkar,
338
00:17:28,300 --> 00:17:28,540
said minorities like Muslims
One of them, MS Golwalkar,
339
00:17:28,540 --> 00:17:32,180
said minorities like Muslims
were a threat to India
340
00:17:32,180 --> 00:17:36,740
and the country could learn
from the Nazis' killing of Jews.
341
00:17:37,660 --> 00:17:41,820
I think the way the history
is told to the children
342
00:17:41,820 --> 00:17:43,620
and the way the narrative
is structured
343
00:17:43,620 --> 00:17:43,860
and the way the narrative
is that these are our heroes.
344
00:17:43,860 --> 00:17:45,340
is that these are our heroes.
345
00:17:45,340 --> 00:17:48,700
It's clear that the Hindu race
is seen as the dominant race,
346
00:17:48,700 --> 00:17:50,100
one that matters
347
00:17:50,100 --> 00:17:53,300
and, more importantly,
one that actually has ownership
348
00:17:53,300 --> 00:17:53,540
and, more importantly,
of the Indian land.
349
00:17:53,540 --> 00:17:54,860
of the Indian land.
350
00:17:56,620 --> 00:17:59,540
In parks and halls across Australia
351
00:17:59,540 --> 00:18:01,780
participants are also being taught
352
00:18:01,780 --> 00:18:05,580
an Indian martial art called danda.
353
00:18:05,580 --> 00:18:08,300
The large and heavy bamboo sticks,
354
00:18:08,300 --> 00:18:08,540
and this is to inculcate a sense
The large and heavy bamboo sticks,
355
00:18:08,540 --> 00:18:12,580
and this is to inculcate a sense
of self-discipline, self-defence
356
00:18:12,580 --> 00:18:12,820
and this is to inculcate a sense
and the way they frame it
357
00:18:12,820 --> 00:18:14,180
and the way they frame it
358
00:18:14,180 --> 00:18:17,660
is to be prepared
"for any invaders and any attacks."
359
00:18:17,660 --> 00:18:17,900
is to be prepared
Arjun, this does look a bit
360
00:18:17,900 --> 00:18:20,740
Arjun, this does look a bit
361
00:18:20,740 --> 00:18:22,700
like a normal martial arts class.
362
00:18:22,700 --> 00:18:25,620
What makes it dangerous?
363
00:18:25,620 --> 00:18:29,420
The way it plays itself out
in the real world.
364
00:18:29,420 --> 00:18:32,660
In India,
when it comes to minority treatment,
365
00:18:32,660 --> 00:18:37,500
when it comes to tearing down
the places of worship of minorities,
366
00:18:37,500 --> 00:18:37,740
when it comes to tearing down
this does play itself
367
00:18:37,740 --> 00:18:39,380
this does play itself
368
00:18:39,380 --> 00:18:40,900
in a violent way.
369
00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:41,100
(INSTRUCTOR SPEAKS in HINDI)
in a violent way.
370
00:18:41,100 --> 00:18:43,940
(INSTRUCTOR SPEAKS in HINDI)
371
00:18:43,940 --> 00:18:44,140
(INSTRUCTOR SPEAKS in HINDI)
(INDISTINCT YELLING)
372
00:18:44,140 --> 00:18:46,780
(INDISTINCT YELLING)
373
00:18:46,780 --> 00:18:48,660
As you can see in this footage,
374
00:18:48,660 --> 00:18:48,900
danda is used
As you can see in this footage,
375
00:18:48,900 --> 00:18:52,940
danda is used
by Hindu nationalist devotees
376
00:18:52,940 --> 00:18:56,420
in deadly riots
against Indian Muslims.
377
00:18:59,100 --> 00:19:03,380
We've also found
Australian HSS volunteers
378
00:19:03,380 --> 00:19:06,860
have attended RSS training camps
in India
379
00:19:06,860 --> 00:19:10,940
and held talks
for RSS leaders in Australia.
380
00:19:14,820 --> 00:19:17,020
A spokesperson from HSS Australia
381
00:19:17,020 --> 00:19:20,220
told us danda
is like other self-defence training.
382
00:19:20,220 --> 00:19:23,500
They said the organisation
does charity work
383
00:19:23,500 --> 00:19:26,900
and that it takes inspiration
from the RSS.
384
00:19:31,540 --> 00:19:34,780
As one of the largest diasporas
in the country,
385
00:19:34,780 --> 00:19:38,980
Indian-Australians
now hold huge political power.
386
00:19:45,860 --> 00:19:50,620
It's something Australian politicians
are keenly aware of.
387
00:19:53,980 --> 00:19:57,340
Together
we are building a better world.
388
00:19:58,460 --> 00:19:59,940
For several years
389
00:19:59,940 --> 00:20:04,140
our politicians have been cosying up
to the Indian government,
390
00:20:04,140 --> 00:20:09,100
keen to position us to benefit from
this emerging superpower's growth.
391
00:20:10,500 --> 00:20:12,740
Prime Minister Modi and I discussed
392
00:20:12,740 --> 00:20:16,220
the increasingly uncertain
global-security environment.
393
00:20:20,420 --> 00:20:22,860
India is also an important bulwark
394
00:20:22,860 --> 00:20:26,380
against China's increasing power
in the region.
395
00:20:28,980 --> 00:20:30,500
(CHEERING)
396
00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:33,100
Some watching
the Australia-India relationship
397
00:20:33,100 --> 00:20:33,340
Some watching
are asking, "At what cost?"
398
00:20:33,340 --> 00:20:35,980
are asking, "At what cost?"
399
00:20:38,940 --> 00:20:41,340
PRIYA CHACKO: The Australian
government has been very quiet
400
00:20:41,340 --> 00:20:44,340
in terms of commenting on
or criticising
401
00:20:44,340 --> 00:20:47,900
India's turn
toward authoritarianism.
402
00:20:47,900 --> 00:20:50,460
It's embraced Narendra Modi.
403
00:20:50,460 --> 00:20:53,940
So, a lot
of the authoritarian features
404
00:20:53,940 --> 00:20:54,180
So, a lot
of the Narendra Modi government
405
00:20:54,180 --> 00:20:56,180
of the Narendra Modi government
406
00:20:56,180 --> 00:20:58,660
simply have been swept
under the carpet
407
00:20:58,660 --> 00:21:01,780
by the Australian government,
unfortunately.
408
00:21:01,780 --> 00:21:02,020
by the Australian government,
(CHEERING, APPLAUSE)
409
00:21:02,020 --> 00:21:05,100
(CHEERING, APPLAUSE)
410
00:21:05,100 --> 00:21:09,140
The last time I saw someone on the
stage here was Bruce Springsteen,
411
00:21:09,140 --> 00:21:12,580
and he didn't get the welcome
that Prime Minister Modi has got!
412
00:21:12,580 --> 00:21:18,100
(CHEERING, APPLAUSE)
413
00:21:18,100 --> 00:21:21,020
Prime Minister Modi is the boss!
414
00:21:21,020 --> 00:21:25,500
(CHEERING, APPLAUSE)
415
00:21:25,500 --> 00:21:29,980
I want you to give a big Australian
welcome to my dear friend,
416
00:21:29,980 --> 00:21:32,540
Prime Minister Narendra Modi!
417
00:21:32,540 --> 00:21:34,700
Hindu nationalist groups in Australia
418
00:21:34,700 --> 00:21:40,180
helped organise this stadium event
during Modi's Sydney visit last year.
419
00:21:40,180 --> 00:21:44,980
One of the groups is called
the Overseas Friends of the BJP.
420
00:21:44,980 --> 00:21:45,220
One of the groups is called
(CHEERING, APPLAUSE)
421
00:21:45,220 --> 00:21:47,460
(CHEERING, APPLAUSE)
422
00:21:47,460 --> 00:21:51,820
Would you classify the Overseas
Friends of BJP as a political party?
423
00:21:51,820 --> 00:21:55,860
They are, actually, a branch,
a type of equation
424
00:21:55,860 --> 00:21:58,660
with the Bharatiya Janata Party,
or BJP, from India.
425
00:21:58,660 --> 00:22:03,500
The their job is to promote
the policies and views of BJP here.
426
00:22:03,500 --> 00:22:03,740
The their job is to promote
There's no other purpose.
427
00:22:03,740 --> 00:22:05,020
There's no other purpose.
428
00:22:05,020 --> 00:22:05,260
And, in fact,
There's no other purpose.
429
00:22:05,260 --> 00:22:08,340
And, in fact,
the global head is in New Delhi
430
00:22:08,340 --> 00:22:12,300
and it's called
Global Overseas Friends of BJP.
431
00:22:12,300 --> 00:22:12,540
and it's called
So, they are linked with BJP.
432
00:22:12,540 --> 00:22:15,420
So, they are linked with BJP.
433
00:22:15,420 --> 00:22:18,140
A lot of promises made.
They will fix the...
434
00:22:18,140 --> 00:22:20,860
Yadu Singh was a BJP supporter.
435
00:22:20,860 --> 00:22:24,180
They presented themselves
as the saviour,
436
00:22:24,180 --> 00:22:27,060
as the people
who would do good thing for India.
437
00:22:27,060 --> 00:22:31,700
He's a cardiologist
and community leader in Sydney.
438
00:22:31,700 --> 00:22:31,940
He's a cardiologist
I'm a Hindu, I'm a practising Hindu,
439
00:22:31,940 --> 00:22:34,180
I'm a Hindu, I'm a practising Hindu,
440
00:22:34,180 --> 00:22:39,700
but a Hindu who does not
discriminate or hate anybody else.
441
00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:41,660
Why did you feel
the need to say that?
442
00:22:41,660 --> 00:22:44,980
I think it's important. I believe
in Hinduism, or Hindu dharma.
443
00:22:44,980 --> 00:22:47,820
Are you worried
that Mr Modi and the BJP
444
00:22:47,820 --> 00:22:51,020
are promoting a narrow version
of what Hinduism is?
445
00:22:51,020 --> 00:22:54,500
Well, there have been
some commentaries in rallies
446
00:22:54,500 --> 00:22:55,780
which were not very good.
447
00:22:58,900 --> 00:23:02,740
Sources have told us the Overseas
Friends of the BJP's strategy
448
00:23:02,740 --> 00:23:02,980
Sources have told us the Overseas
is to infiltrate politics.
449
00:23:02,980 --> 00:23:04,420
is to infiltrate politics.
450
00:23:04,420 --> 00:23:04,660
So, it wants to get elected
is to infiltrate politics.
451
00:23:04,660 --> 00:23:07,260
So, it wants to get elected
to local councils first,
452
00:23:07,260 --> 00:23:10,380
then state government
and ultimately federal parliament.
453
00:23:10,380 --> 00:23:10,620
then state government
So, we started looking for patterns
454
00:23:10,620 --> 00:23:12,300
So, we started looking for patterns
455
00:23:12,300 --> 00:23:12,540
of the organisation's influence
So, we started looking for patterns
456
00:23:12,540 --> 00:23:14,860
of the organisation's influence
in Australia,
457
00:23:14,860 --> 00:23:18,340
and it led us here to the north-west
of Sydney, The Hills Shire,
458
00:23:18,340 --> 00:23:21,100
which is also the federal electorate
of Mitchell
459
00:23:21,100 --> 00:23:21,340
which is also the federal electorate
held by Alex Hawke.
460
00:23:21,340 --> 00:23:23,300
held by Alex Hawke.
461
00:23:24,380 --> 00:23:28,140
It's great to be here
with the Hindu Council of Australia.
462
00:23:28,140 --> 00:23:32,700
We've discovered one of Alex Hawke's
closest deputies, Rahul Jethi,
463
00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:37,620
is a founding member of the Overseas
Friends of the BJP in Australia.
464
00:23:40,460 --> 00:23:45,660
He's seen here chanting a slogan
co-opted by Hindu nationalists
465
00:23:45,660 --> 00:23:45,900
and was seen at organisation events
co-opted by Hindu nationalists
466
00:23:45,900 --> 00:23:48,340
and was seen at organisation events
467
00:23:48,340 --> 00:23:50,980
with senior Indian ministers
468
00:23:50,980 --> 00:23:52,140
this year.
469
00:23:52,140 --> 00:23:53,980
J'ai Shri Ram!
470
00:23:55,340 --> 00:23:57,580
He also holds
a powerful position
471
00:23:57,580 --> 00:23:59,020
in Alex Hawke's seat
472
00:23:59,020 --> 00:24:01,660
supervising
his branches.
473
00:24:01,660 --> 00:24:04,220
Sources say Alex Hawke
and his allies
474
00:24:04,220 --> 00:24:04,500
Sources say Alex Hawke
lobbied councillors
and his allies
in The Hills Shire
475
00:24:04,500 --> 00:24:06,940
lobbied councillors
in The Hills Shire
476
00:24:06,940 --> 00:24:07,180
lobbied councillors
to get Rahul Jethi's wife, Reena,
477
00:24:07,180 --> 00:24:08,740
to get Rahul Jethi's wife, Reena,
478
00:24:08,740 --> 00:24:11,740
the position of deputy mayor
in 2019.
479
00:24:11,740 --> 00:24:11,980
the position of deputy mayor
Hawke has told us he wasn't involved.
480
00:24:11,980 --> 00:24:15,060
Hawke has told us he wasn't involved.
481
00:24:15,060 --> 00:24:15,300
We've linked Rahul Jethi to a
Hawke has told us he wasn't involved.
482
00:24:15,300 --> 00:24:19,620
We've linked Rahul Jethi to a
fundraising war chest for Alex Hawke
483
00:24:19,620 --> 00:24:19,860
We've linked Rahul Jethi to a
called The Mitchell Club.
484
00:24:19,860 --> 00:24:21,460
called The Mitchell Club.
485
00:24:21,460 --> 00:24:23,500
Four Corners has found this flyer
486
00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:26,620
with an email address
accessed by Jethi.
487
00:24:26,620 --> 00:24:30,260
He and Mr Hawke
deny Jethi's connected.
488
00:24:30,260 --> 00:24:30,540
It seems
He and Mr Hawke
this political alliance
deny Jethi's connected.
489
00:24:30,540 --> 00:24:32,540
It seems
this political alliance
490
00:24:32,540 --> 00:24:32,780
It seems
continues to deliver.
491
00:24:32,780 --> 00:24:34,380
continues to deliver.
492
00:24:34,380 --> 00:24:34,620
We've been leaked data
continues to deliver.
493
00:24:34,620 --> 00:24:37,620
We've been leaked data
from Alex Hawke's seat.
494
00:24:37,620 --> 00:24:40,140
We've analysed
the last five years,
495
00:24:40,140 --> 00:24:42,340
and in more
than half the branches
496
00:24:42,340 --> 00:24:44,500
Indian-Australians
make up
497
00:24:44,500 --> 00:24:46,060
a substantial
proportion
498
00:24:46,060 --> 00:24:46,300
a substantial
of the new members.
499
00:24:46,300 --> 00:24:48,060
of the new members.
500
00:24:52,260 --> 00:24:56,900
It's almost impossible to get
Liberal members to speak about this.
501
00:24:58,660 --> 00:24:59,980
Hello.
Hi. How are you?
502
00:24:59,980 --> 00:25:02,180
I'm Avani. Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you.
503
00:25:02,180 --> 00:25:03,820
How are you?
Come in, please.
504
00:25:04,780 --> 00:25:06,820
Thanks for having me.
Welcome.
505
00:25:06,820 --> 00:25:07,060
When I was on executive and...
Thanks for having me.
Welcome.
506
00:25:07,060 --> 00:25:08,900
When I was on executive and...
507
00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:12,220
Long-time Alex Hawke rival
Matthew Camenzuli
508
00:25:12,220 --> 00:25:12,460
was a senior member of the party
Matthew Camenzuli
509
00:25:12,460 --> 00:25:14,020
was a senior member of the party
510
00:25:14,020 --> 00:25:17,620
until he was expelled
a couple of years ago.
511
00:25:17,620 --> 00:25:17,860
until he was expelled
a couple of years ago.
Alright, so, I just want to show you
512
00:25:17,860 --> 00:25:19,660
Alright, so, I just want to show you
513
00:25:19,660 --> 00:25:22,780
some of these numbers
that we've been given.
514
00:25:22,780 --> 00:25:24,660
What goes through your mind
when you see this?
515
00:25:24,660 --> 00:25:24,900
What goes through your mind
Insane. Insane.
516
00:25:24,900 --> 00:25:26,260
Insane. Insane.
517
00:25:26,260 --> 00:25:26,500
Why so insane?
Insane. Insane.
518
00:25:26,500 --> 00:25:28,380
Why so insane?
I mean...
519
00:25:28,380 --> 00:25:28,620
..that's nuts.
Why so insane?
I mean...
520
00:25:28,620 --> 00:25:29,380
..that's nuts.
521
00:25:29,380 --> 00:25:33,300
And the further up and down the list
you go, the more you're seeing it.
522
00:25:33,300 --> 00:25:33,540
And the further up and down the list
It's out of control.
523
00:25:33,540 --> 00:25:34,500
It's out of control.
524
00:25:35,460 --> 00:25:38,620
We've been told by several recruits
525
00:25:38,620 --> 00:25:41,660
that Rahul Jethi signed them up.
526
00:25:41,660 --> 00:25:43,140
Jethi denies it all.
527
00:25:43,140 --> 00:25:47,380
He says he's just like any other
Liberal Party office bearer.
528
00:25:47,380 --> 00:25:47,620
He says he's just like any other
It's entirely possible
529
00:25:47,620 --> 00:25:49,020
It's entirely possible
530
00:25:49,020 --> 00:25:51,500
that he could tell Alex Hawke
that he can roll him
531
00:25:51,500 --> 00:25:52,940
in his next preselection,
532
00:25:52,940 --> 00:25:54,980
which means
he won't be the MP anymore.
533
00:25:54,980 --> 00:25:58,620
I think the Liberal Party should be
doing a significant investigation.
534
00:25:58,620 --> 00:26:01,380
The member for Mitchell
has to answer to this.
535
00:26:01,380 --> 00:26:03,580
It doesn't look good.
It doesn't look good.
536
00:26:03,580 --> 00:26:03,820
It doesn't look good.
We have to stop...
537
00:26:03,820 --> 00:26:04,580
We have to stop...
538
00:26:04,580 --> 00:26:05,820
In a statement
539
00:26:05,820 --> 00:26:06,060
Alex Hawke said he complies with all
In a statement
540
00:26:06,060 --> 00:26:10,940
Alex Hawke said he complies with all
Liberal Party and electoral rules
541
00:26:10,940 --> 00:26:14,500
and said he's modernised
his electorate.
542
00:26:14,500 --> 00:26:14,740
and said he's modernised
A Liberal Party spokesman
543
00:26:14,740 --> 00:26:16,180
A Liberal Party spokesman
544
00:26:16,180 --> 00:26:16,420
said the Overseas Friends
A Liberal Party spokesman
545
00:26:16,420 --> 00:26:19,020
said the Overseas Friends
of the BJP Australia
546
00:26:19,020 --> 00:26:19,260
said the Overseas Friends
isn't registered as a foreign agent.
547
00:26:19,260 --> 00:26:22,180
isn't registered as a foreign agent.
548
00:26:24,940 --> 00:26:29,500
That's true. The organisation
IS operating here without scrutiny.
549
00:26:29,500 --> 00:26:30,740
In this video
550
00:26:30,740 --> 00:26:35,340
they're drumming up votes
for a candidate in Southern India.
551
00:26:35,340 --> 00:26:38,780
In the US
it's been declared a foreign agent
552
00:26:38,780 --> 00:26:42,580
and has to disclose
all political activities.
553
00:26:45,300 --> 00:26:47,540
I've heard
that the Overseas Friends of the BJP
554
00:26:47,540 --> 00:26:49,460
is having an event here
in Parramatta.
555
00:26:49,460 --> 00:26:52,900
I really want to know what they think
about these accusations
556
00:26:52,900 --> 00:26:54,580
that they're trying
to infiltrate Australia.
557
00:26:54,580 --> 00:26:54,820
that they're trying
So, let's go and ask them.
558
00:26:54,820 --> 00:26:57,220
So, let's go and ask them.
559
00:27:04,340 --> 00:27:05,340
Hello.
560
00:27:05,340 --> 00:27:08,340
We're greeted by one of the group's
office bearers, Ankur.
561
00:27:08,340 --> 00:27:09,780
How are you?
Are you live?
562
00:27:09,780 --> 00:27:10,020
How are you?
At first we're not allowed inside.
563
00:27:10,020 --> 00:27:11,980
At first we're not allowed inside.
564
00:27:11,980 --> 00:27:12,220
Yeah, you gotta turn off.
At first we're not allowed inside.
565
00:27:12,220 --> 00:27:14,060
Yeah, you gotta turn off.
You gotta turn off.
566
00:27:14,060 --> 00:27:15,820
I'm not...
We're not... We're just...
567
00:27:15,820 --> 00:27:18,260
Yeah.
Then I wouldn't let you come in.
568
00:27:18,260 --> 00:27:20,500
OK, sure.
So, are we able to go inside?
569
00:27:20,500 --> 00:27:21,500
No. You're not.
570
00:27:22,460 --> 00:27:26,260
After some convincing,
we're invited in.
571
00:27:26,260 --> 00:27:27,660
They are supporters in there.
572
00:27:27,660 --> 00:27:29,620
What's your aims of your group here?
573
00:27:29,620 --> 00:27:32,980
Nothing. Nothing. Just... Just...
We... We are more...
574
00:27:32,980 --> 00:27:34,300
We are a fan group.
575
00:27:34,300 --> 00:27:36,500
It's just like, you know,
Manchester United,
576
00:27:36,500 --> 00:27:36,740
It's just like, you know,
there is a lot of Aussies,
577
00:27:36,740 --> 00:27:38,020
there is a lot of Aussies,
578
00:27:38,020 --> 00:27:42,100
they might be supporting
those particular teams, right?
579
00:27:42,100 --> 00:27:42,860
It's the same thing.
580
00:27:42,860 --> 00:27:45,260
I ask him if the organisation
581
00:27:45,260 --> 00:27:48,700
is trying to infiltrate
Australian politics.
582
00:27:48,700 --> 00:27:50,340
No. No.
No, not at all.
583
00:27:50,340 --> 00:27:52,580
We are Indian diaspora, you know?
We are Indian diaspora.
584
00:27:52,580 --> 00:27:53,980
Obviously, being a citizen,
585
00:27:53,980 --> 00:27:56,180
obviously
we exercise our rights here,
586
00:27:56,180 --> 00:27:58,100
but other than that,
there is nothing.
587
00:27:58,100 --> 00:27:59,300
There is nothing here.
588
00:27:59,300 --> 00:28:00,580
And what's the aims of...
589
00:28:00,580 --> 00:28:03,380
The BJP
has a head of foreign affairs,
590
00:28:03,380 --> 00:28:04,980
who says his role is to coordinate
591
00:28:04,980 --> 00:28:08,140
with the party's
global outreach platform,
592
00:28:08,140 --> 00:28:08,380
with the party's
the Overseas Friends of the BJP.
593
00:28:08,380 --> 00:28:11,100
the Overseas Friends of the BJP.
594
00:28:11,100 --> 00:28:14,020
Obviously you work
with the BJP in India
595
00:28:14,020 --> 00:28:16,260
to kind of organise your events
and how you sort of function here.
596
00:28:16,260 --> 00:28:17,940
No. No, not really.
597
00:28:17,940 --> 00:28:19,740
Not really.
No connection at all?
598
00:28:19,740 --> 00:28:22,140
No, no. Look, sometime, obviously,
599
00:28:22,140 --> 00:28:27,140
if, a major event like Narendra
Modi's, you know, reception and all,
600
00:28:27,140 --> 00:28:27,380
if, a major event like Narendra
alright, as a community
601
00:28:27,380 --> 00:28:28,900
alright, as a community
602
00:28:28,900 --> 00:28:32,060
we join hands together with
the community and we just help them.
603
00:28:32,060 --> 00:28:33,660
Nothing else.
Other than that there is nothing.
604
00:28:33,660 --> 00:28:33,900
Nothing else.
Helps the diaspora by the...
605
00:28:33,900 --> 00:28:35,300
Helps the diaspora by the...
606
00:28:35,300 --> 00:28:39,420
Look, our organisation
is a non-profit organisation.
607
00:28:39,420 --> 00:28:42,620
So, please, alright?
Uh... Respect our...
608
00:28:42,620 --> 00:28:46,020
Then we're told
we've overstayed our welcome.
609
00:28:51,380 --> 00:28:56,700
India is not just accused of
covert forms of foreign interference.
610
00:28:58,220 --> 00:29:01,820
The most shocking allegations
against the Indian government
611
00:29:01,820 --> 00:29:05,700
involve assassinating dissidents
on foreign soil.
612
00:29:10,060 --> 00:29:15,220
Moninder Singh's just stepped
off a flight from Vancouver.
613
00:29:15,220 --> 00:29:20,540
What other passengers don't know
is he's in grave danger.
614
00:29:21,500 --> 00:29:23,380
How are you?
Good. How are you?
615
00:29:23,380 --> 00:29:25,980
Nice to meet you.
How was the flight?
616
00:29:25,980 --> 00:29:26,220
Nice to meet you.
Long.
617
00:29:26,220 --> 00:29:26,980
Long.
618
00:29:26,980 --> 00:29:29,460
A few hours into the flight
I started getting notifications
619
00:29:29,460 --> 00:29:30,740
that there's been a duty to warn
620
00:29:30,740 --> 00:29:33,220
that's been provided
to another member of the community.
621
00:29:33,220 --> 00:29:34,540
To have these duties to warn's a...
622
00:29:34,540 --> 00:29:37,380
..yeah, which are imminent threat
to assassination.
623
00:29:37,380 --> 00:29:40,780
(HUBBUB)
624
00:29:40,780 --> 00:29:43,900
Moninder is in Australia
to sound an alarm.
625
00:29:43,900 --> 00:29:48,380
He says Canadian authorities
have told him and eight others
626
00:29:48,380 --> 00:29:51,020
they could be killed at any moment,
627
00:29:51,020 --> 00:29:55,060
including a Canadian Sikh federal MP.
628
00:29:55,060 --> 00:30:00,060
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
629
00:30:00,060 --> 00:30:03,180
So, we know the risks that we're
kind of like taking at the moment.
630
00:30:03,180 --> 00:30:05,700
At the time we leave your house
to the moment you get back,
631
00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:05,940
At the time we leave your house
and even when you're in your house,
632
00:30:05,940 --> 00:30:07,380
and even when you're in your house,
633
00:30:07,380 --> 00:30:09,700
everything from the doorbell ringing
to everything,
634
00:30:09,700 --> 00:30:11,500
everything is coordinated.
635
00:30:12,940 --> 00:30:15,580
Moninder is part of a global movement
636
00:30:15,580 --> 00:30:17,900
calling for the state of Punjab
637
00:30:17,900 --> 00:30:19,420
to break away from India
638
00:30:19,420 --> 00:30:24,420
and become a separate Sikh nation
called Khalistan.
639
00:30:26,460 --> 00:30:28,100
It's, like, basically what we think
640
00:30:28,100 --> 00:30:28,340
is that, like, either we'll see
It's, like, basically what we think
641
00:30:28,340 --> 00:30:31,420
is that, like, either we'll see
Khalistan or we'll die trying.
642
00:30:37,420 --> 00:30:41,780
Last year, Moninder's close friend
Hardeep Singh Nijjar was shot dead
643
00:30:41,780 --> 00:30:45,020
outside their local temple
in Vancouver.
644
00:30:46,300 --> 00:30:49,100
Canada has accused
the Indian government
645
00:30:49,100 --> 00:30:49,340
Canada has accused
of orchestrating the assassination.
646
00:30:49,340 --> 00:30:52,540
of orchestrating the assassination.
647
00:30:52,540 --> 00:30:54,780
The Modi administration denies it
648
00:30:54,780 --> 00:30:59,300
and has accused Nijjar
of being a terrorist.
649
00:31:00,660 --> 00:31:04,940
Can you tell me about that day
that Hardeep Singh Nijjar was killed?
650
00:31:04,940 --> 00:31:07,220
It was actually Father's Day 2023.
651
00:31:07,220 --> 00:31:09,740
We had dinner and then,
just like any other family,
652
00:31:09,740 --> 00:31:11,540
my kids were playing
in the next room,
653
00:31:11,540 --> 00:31:15,540
and I got, like, multiple calls
on my phone over and over again.
654
00:31:15,540 --> 00:31:18,420
And I picked up and
I heard a panicked kind of voice
655
00:31:18,420 --> 00:31:21,300
on the other side saying, uh...
"Bhaji," which means 'brother',
656
00:31:21,300 --> 00:31:23,820
"come right away,
they've shot Hardeep."
657
00:31:23,820 --> 00:31:27,780
Moninder rushed to the Sikh temple,
or gurdwara,
658
00:31:27,780 --> 00:31:28,020
Moninder rushed to the Sikh temple,
where Hardeep was killed.
659
00:31:28,020 --> 00:31:29,860
where Hardeep was killed.
660
00:31:30,980 --> 00:31:35,740
I would oddly say to you
I've shed two tears since he's died.
661
00:31:35,740 --> 00:31:35,980
I would oddly say to you
And both of them were when I...
662
00:31:35,980 --> 00:31:38,220
And both of them were when I...
663
00:31:38,220 --> 00:31:42,300
..leaned in to kiss his forehead
in his casket.
664
00:31:42,300 --> 00:31:42,540
..leaned in to kiss his forehead
But it's one of those things
665
00:31:42,540 --> 00:31:44,780
But it's one of those things
666
00:31:44,780 --> 00:31:49,060
that, if it starts,
it's probably not going to finish,
667
00:31:49,060 --> 00:31:52,300
so, you just don't allow yourself
that type of emotion.
668
00:31:52,300 --> 00:31:55,740
You focus on the bigger fight. You
focus on what the community needs.
669
00:31:56,700 --> 00:32:00,340
Two months before
Hardeep Singh Nijjar's assassination,
670
00:32:00,340 --> 00:32:00,580
Two months before
the Indian Foreign Secretary
671
00:32:00,580 --> 00:32:02,420
the Indian Foreign Secretary
672
00:32:02,420 --> 00:32:07,260
sent a secret cable to Indian
consulates across North America.
673
00:32:08,300 --> 00:32:09,780
We got a copy of the memo,
674
00:32:09,780 --> 00:32:14,540
and it orders a "sophisticated
crackdown" on pro-Khalistan groups
675
00:32:14,540 --> 00:32:18,380
that have been designated as
terrorists by the Indian government.
676
00:32:18,380 --> 00:32:20,860
It also calls Nijjar an "extremist"
677
00:32:20,860 --> 00:32:24,180
against whom "concrete measures"
need to be taken.
678
00:32:24,180 --> 00:32:24,420
against whom "concrete measures"
And it instructs Indian consulates
679
00:32:24,420 --> 00:32:26,980
And it instructs Indian consulates
680
00:32:26,980 --> 00:32:31,180
to work with India's
foreign spy service, RAW.
681
00:32:31,180 --> 00:32:34,580
The Indian government
has called this document a fake.
682
00:32:40,500 --> 00:32:42,740
After the execution in Canada
683
00:32:42,740 --> 00:32:42,980
the Indian government
After the execution in Canada
684
00:32:42,980 --> 00:32:45,740
the Indian government
allegedly didn't stop there.
685
00:32:45,740 --> 00:32:49,980
It's accused of going for a much more
ambitious target in New York City...
686
00:32:51,740 --> 00:32:54,060
..this man - Gurpatwant Pannun,
687
00:32:54,060 --> 00:32:54,300
the leader of pro-Khalistan group
..this man - Gurpatwant Pannun,
688
00:32:54,300 --> 00:32:58,780
the leader of pro-Khalistan group
Sikhs for Justice.
689
00:33:00,780 --> 00:33:03,700
GURPATWANT PANNUN: This did not come
as a surprise to me
690
00:33:03,700 --> 00:33:06,380
or even if something
is going to happen to me tomorrow,
691
00:33:06,380 --> 00:33:06,620
or even if something
or if I get killed in future,
692
00:33:06,620 --> 00:33:08,580
or if I get killed in future,
693
00:33:08,580 --> 00:33:11,980
that would not be a surprise
to anybody.
694
00:33:13,500 --> 00:33:16,340
The only thing we all must know
695
00:33:16,340 --> 00:33:18,540
that this is the Indian system
696
00:33:18,540 --> 00:33:21,900
that is trying to suppress
the freedom of speech and expression
697
00:33:21,900 --> 00:33:22,140
that is trying to suppress
of pro-Khalistan Sikhs.
698
00:33:22,140 --> 00:33:23,420
of pro-Khalistan Sikhs.
699
00:33:26,060 --> 00:33:31,860
As President Joe Biden welcomed
Narendra Modi to Washington DC,
700
00:33:31,860 --> 00:33:35,700
the murder plot against Pannun
was ramping up.
701
00:33:37,460 --> 00:33:40,420
Several hundred miles to the north
in New York City
702
00:33:40,420 --> 00:33:44,540
you had an assassination plot
unfolding.
703
00:33:44,540 --> 00:33:44,780
you had an assassination plot
You had an Indian
704
00:33:44,780 --> 00:33:46,340
You had an Indian
705
00:33:46,340 --> 00:33:48,780
intelligence officer in India
706
00:33:48,780 --> 00:33:51,820
urging what he thought
was a hit team
707
00:33:51,820 --> 00:33:55,700
to rush ahead and take care
of this targeted killing.
708
00:33:56,940 --> 00:33:59,940
It failed dramatically.
709
00:33:59,940 --> 00:34:02,340
It was penetrated from the start.
710
00:34:02,340 --> 00:34:05,300
The Indian government
tried to hire a hitman in New York,
711
00:34:05,300 --> 00:34:05,540
The Indian government
ultimately turned to somebody
712
00:34:05,540 --> 00:34:07,220
ultimately turned to somebody
713
00:34:07,220 --> 00:34:07,460
who was working as an informant
ultimately turned to somebody
714
00:34:07,460 --> 00:34:11,180
who was working as an informant
for the US Drug Enforcement Agency.
715
00:34:12,140 --> 00:34:16,420
So, from the very outset,
the United States was able to see
716
00:34:16,420 --> 00:34:19,500
right into this operation
as it unfolded.
717
00:34:19,500 --> 00:34:21,940
Indian authorities told media
718
00:34:21,940 --> 00:34:26,700
the assassination could have been
orchestrated by a rogue operative.
719
00:34:28,340 --> 00:34:30,580
Washington Post reporter Greg Miller
720
00:34:30,580 --> 00:34:33,060
revealed India's top spy chiefs
721
00:34:33,060 --> 00:34:36,700
were implicated
in the plot against Pannun.
722
00:34:36,700 --> 00:34:39,740
The way the Indian
security system works,
723
00:34:39,740 --> 00:34:41,380
it just seems very unlikely
724
00:34:41,380 --> 00:34:43,380
that you would have
an intelligence chief
725
00:34:43,380 --> 00:34:43,620
that you would have
and a national security adviser
726
00:34:43,620 --> 00:34:45,580
and a national security adviser
727
00:34:45,580 --> 00:34:49,420
who would set plots like this
in motion
728
00:34:49,420 --> 00:34:51,180
without a pretty clear understanding
729
00:34:51,180 --> 00:34:55,260
that ultimately the Prime Minister
would be OK with it.
730
00:35:00,060 --> 00:35:02,420
The Indian government has justified
731
00:35:02,420 --> 00:35:02,660
cracking down
The Indian government has justified
732
00:35:02,660 --> 00:35:04,620
cracking down
on the Khalistan movement
733
00:35:04,620 --> 00:35:07,580
because it sees it
as a terror threat.
734
00:35:08,540 --> 00:35:10,980
It points to the '80s and '90s,
735
00:35:10,980 --> 00:35:14,540
when the movement
turned into an armed militancy
736
00:35:14,540 --> 00:35:14,780
when the movement
and an Air India flight was bombed,
737
00:35:14,780 --> 00:35:17,260
and an Air India flight was bombed,
738
00:35:17,260 --> 00:35:20,380
killing more than 300 people.
739
00:35:21,700 --> 00:35:23,420
The Sikh bodyguards
740
00:35:23,420 --> 00:35:27,780
who assassinated the prime minister,
Indira Gandhi, in 1984
741
00:35:27,780 --> 00:35:29,380
were incensed by her decision
742
00:35:29,380 --> 00:35:35,340
to order Indian military
to storm Sikhism's holiest site.
743
00:35:35,340 --> 00:35:38,340
ARCHIVE REPORTER: Smoke billowing
over New Delhi, reflecting...
744
00:35:38,340 --> 00:35:42,300
Thousands of Sikhs
were then killed in reprisals.
745
00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:46,180
(INDISTINCT YELLING)
746
00:35:46,180 --> 00:35:47,700
(SPEAKS IN PUNJAB)
747
00:35:47,700 --> 00:35:51,940
Today, authorities say Gurpatwant
Pannun's social-media posts
748
00:35:51,940 --> 00:35:54,340
are threatening India's safety,
749
00:35:54,340 --> 00:35:57,860
especially when he draws on the past.
750
00:36:05,740 --> 00:36:07,740
He denies he's a threat.
751
00:36:08,940 --> 00:36:12,980
What did you mean when you said
that it could be life-threatening?
752
00:36:12,980 --> 00:36:13,220
What did you mean when you said
I'm stating over and over again,
753
00:36:13,220 --> 00:36:15,140
I'm stating over and over again,
754
00:36:15,140 --> 00:36:17,420
if anybody flies Air India,
755
00:36:17,420 --> 00:36:19,900
you will be funding a Sikh genocide,
756
00:36:19,900 --> 00:36:23,060
which will be life-threatening
for your future generations.
757
00:36:23,060 --> 00:36:25,300
So, whether they wanted
to assassinate me
758
00:36:25,300 --> 00:36:25,540
So, whether they wanted
or whether they want to kill me,
759
00:36:25,540 --> 00:36:26,980
or whether they want to kill me,
760
00:36:26,980 --> 00:36:28,260
I will not stop.
761
00:36:28,260 --> 00:36:32,780
I will continue to campaign for
Sikhs' right to self-determination.
762
00:36:32,780 --> 00:36:36,340
I will continue to organise
Khalistan referendums.
763
00:36:36,340 --> 00:36:41,020
And, even if the destiny
is a death, our destiny is a bullet,
764
00:36:41,020 --> 00:36:41,260
And, even if the destiny
I'm ready to take it.
765
00:36:41,260 --> 00:36:42,620
I'm ready to take it.
766
00:36:42,620 --> 00:36:45,660
(TRADITIONAL MUSIC PLAYS)
767
00:36:51,140 --> 00:36:53,540
Sikhs who've migrated to Australia
768
00:36:53,540 --> 00:36:56,620
continue to worship
in temples like this.
769
00:36:56,620 --> 00:37:01,180
The fraught history in India
led many to migrate here,
770
00:37:01,180 --> 00:37:03,420
including separatists.
771
00:37:03,420 --> 00:37:10,700
(TRADITIONAL MUSIC PLAYS)
(MAN SINGS HYMN)
772
00:37:12,420 --> 00:37:17,020
Moninder fears even Australia
isn't far enough removed
773
00:37:17,020 --> 00:37:18,900
from the Indian state.
774
00:37:21,740 --> 00:37:23,980
MONINDER SINGH:
I think in Australia it's brewing.
775
00:37:23,980 --> 00:37:26,340
They're already here,
they're already interfering.
776
00:37:26,340 --> 00:37:29,100
And it's very dangerous
for the Sikh community here.
777
00:37:35,380 --> 00:37:36,980
If something isn't checked soon,
778
00:37:36,980 --> 00:37:37,220
that, you know,
If something isn't checked soon,
779
00:37:37,220 --> 00:37:39,100
that, you know,
a country like Australia
780
00:37:39,100 --> 00:37:42,380
could be in the same position
as Canada in a few years.
781
00:37:52,420 --> 00:37:54,460
So, I've heard that Sikh separatists
782
00:37:54,460 --> 00:37:54,700
are feeling the pressure
So, I've heard that Sikh separatists
783
00:37:54,700 --> 00:37:57,020
are feeling the pressure
of the Indian government
784
00:37:57,020 --> 00:37:57,260
are feeling the pressure
all the way here in Australia.
785
00:37:57,260 --> 00:37:58,660
all the way here in Australia.
786
00:37:58,660 --> 00:38:00,820
It's a really sensitive issue
for these guys,
787
00:38:00,820 --> 00:38:03,340
but one of them has agreed
to speak to me on camera,
788
00:38:03,340 --> 00:38:06,340
so, I'm heading to meet him now.
789
00:38:13,300 --> 00:38:17,380
Harjinder Singh lives in suburban
Melbourne with his family.
790
00:38:19,740 --> 00:38:21,660
So, what's out here?
791
00:38:21,660 --> 00:38:23,780
I'll show you the car.
792
00:38:24,740 --> 00:38:27,020
By day he's a taxi driver.
793
00:38:27,020 --> 00:38:29,700
His real passion is his activism
794
00:38:29,700 --> 00:38:33,100
in the Australian chapter
of Sikhs for Justice,
795
00:38:33,100 --> 00:38:37,540
the same group as executed leader
Hardeep Singh Nijjar.
796
00:38:37,540 --> 00:38:37,780
the same group as executed leader
I love Khalistan.
797
00:38:37,780 --> 00:38:39,060
I love Khalistan.
798
00:38:39,060 --> 00:38:40,900
It makes me feel happy.
799
00:38:40,900 --> 00:38:44,220
Makes me proud to be a Khalistani,
800
00:38:44,220 --> 00:38:44,460
to put the Khalistan sticker
Makes me proud to be a Khalistani,
801
00:38:44,460 --> 00:38:46,940
to put the Khalistan sticker
on my car.
802
00:38:46,940 --> 00:38:53,140
So, that's why I put over there
so big, so boldly over there.
803
00:38:55,860 --> 00:38:58,300
Harjinder's an Australian citizen.
804
00:38:58,300 --> 00:39:03,100
He says he's been the victim
of an intimidation campaign.
805
00:39:03,100 --> 00:39:06,020
At a key moment
in the Khalistan movement
806
00:39:06,020 --> 00:39:09,860
Harjinder got a threatening call
from a private number.
807
00:39:09,860 --> 00:39:13,380
A couple of months later
his phone rang again.
808
00:39:14,340 --> 00:39:16,940
I got a call at midnight
and I was scared.
809
00:39:16,940 --> 00:39:20,460
Why... Who calling me this time
with no caller ID?
810
00:39:20,460 --> 00:39:23,060
And I got a call on that time -
811
00:39:23,060 --> 00:39:27,260
"You are not listening us,"
in Punjabi.
812
00:39:27,260 --> 00:39:27,500
"You are not listening us,"
"You are not listening us now.
813
00:39:27,500 --> 00:39:29,740
"You are not listening us now.
814
00:39:29,740 --> 00:39:31,460
"So, be careful."
815
00:39:31,460 --> 00:39:33,980
Harjinder wasn't deterred.
816
00:39:33,980 --> 00:39:36,460
He kept speaking out
about Khalistan.
817
00:39:36,460 --> 00:39:38,060
Then, he says,
818
00:39:38,060 --> 00:39:38,300
Indian authorities sent people
Then, he says,
819
00:39:38,300 --> 00:39:42,580
Indian authorities sent people
to his parents' home in Punjab.
820
00:39:42,580 --> 00:39:44,300
Some people visited my place -
821
00:39:44,300 --> 00:39:47,020
"We told you to stop him.
822
00:39:47,020 --> 00:39:51,220
"And we got orders
from the Indian authorities,
823
00:39:51,220 --> 00:39:56,260
"if anyone's doing opposite,
like, against the country," yeah,
824
00:39:56,260 --> 00:39:56,500
"if anyone's doing opposite,
"we got orders to kill them."
825
00:39:56,500 --> 00:39:59,020
"we got orders to kill them."
826
00:39:59,020 --> 00:40:03,060
And we... He don't know, he's
not sure - is it from the police?
827
00:40:03,060 --> 00:40:03,300
And we... He don't know, he's
Is it from intelligence?
828
00:40:03,300 --> 00:40:04,900
Is it from intelligence?
829
00:40:04,900 --> 00:40:06,420
How did your parents react
830
00:40:06,420 --> 00:40:11,300
when these Indian authorities
said that your life was in danger?
831
00:40:11,300 --> 00:40:11,540
when these Indian authorities
They get scared.
832
00:40:11,540 --> 00:40:12,620
They get scared.
833
00:40:12,620 --> 00:40:13,820
How did you feel
834
00:40:13,820 --> 00:40:14,060
hearing that authorities are going
How did you feel
835
00:40:14,060 --> 00:40:17,580
hearing that authorities are going
to Harjinder's parents' house
836
00:40:17,580 --> 00:40:17,820
hearing that authorities are going
and saying all these things?
837
00:40:17,820 --> 00:40:19,060
and saying all these things?
838
00:40:19,060 --> 00:40:22,500
If they're targeting him,
obviously they targeting me as well.
839
00:40:22,500 --> 00:40:24,820
I don't know.
If something happened...
840
00:40:25,780 --> 00:40:28,020
..I don't know. It's scary.
841
00:40:28,020 --> 00:40:30,900
I feel so scared sometimes,
even say, "Oh, Harry..."
842
00:40:30,900 --> 00:40:35,180
He say, "Don't worry," like, you
know, "We're not doing wrong things.
843
00:40:36,100 --> 00:40:40,100
We found more than six
other Australians in the movement
844
00:40:40,100 --> 00:40:44,660
who say they're also being threatened
by Indian authorities.
845
00:40:47,140 --> 00:40:50,180
(BIRDS TWITTER)
846
00:40:55,500 --> 00:41:00,140
The next part of my investigation
brings me to the Australian capital
847
00:41:00,140 --> 00:41:00,420
The next part of my investigation
brings me to the Australian capital
and the nerve centre of
the country's intelligence services.
848
00:41:00,420 --> 00:41:05,300
and the nerve centre of
the country's intelligence services.
849
00:41:05,300 --> 00:41:05,540
and the nerve centre of
It's here in 2021
850
00:41:05,540 --> 00:41:07,420
It's here in 2021
851
00:41:07,420 --> 00:41:10,420
that the head of ASIO, Mike Burgess,
852
00:41:10,420 --> 00:41:10,660
announced a serious incursion
that the head of ASIO, Mike Burgess,
853
00:41:10,660 --> 00:41:14,620
announced a serious incursion
on our sovereignty.
854
00:41:15,740 --> 00:41:18,740
(APPLAUSE)
855
00:41:18,740 --> 00:41:22,460
One of our investigations
focused on a nest of spies
856
00:41:22,460 --> 00:41:24,740
from a particular
foreign intelligence service
857
00:41:24,740 --> 00:41:24,980
from a particular
that was operating in our country.
858
00:41:24,980 --> 00:41:26,940
that was operating in our country.
859
00:41:26,940 --> 00:41:29,420
These spies developed
targeted relationships
860
00:41:29,420 --> 00:41:31,660
with current and former politicians,
861
00:41:31,660 --> 00:41:35,140
a foreign embassy
and a state police service.
862
00:41:35,140 --> 00:41:37,660
They monitored
their country's diaspora community.
863
00:41:37,660 --> 00:41:40,020
We confronted the foreign spies
864
00:41:40,020 --> 00:41:40,260
and quietly and professionally
We confronted the foreign spies
865
00:41:40,260 --> 00:41:44,540
and quietly and professionally
removed them from our country.
866
00:41:44,540 --> 00:41:46,260
It's fertile ground for sharing...
867
00:41:46,260 --> 00:41:48,860
Burgess didn't name the country.
868
00:41:48,860 --> 00:41:52,020
But the Washington Post did.
869
00:41:52,020 --> 00:41:54,940
GREG MILLER: That was, I think,
also quite troubling
870
00:41:54,940 --> 00:41:55,180
GREG MILLER: That was, I think,
that India, a presumed ally,
871
00:41:55,180 --> 00:41:58,260
that India, a presumed ally,
872
00:41:58,260 --> 00:42:00,020
another democracy,
873
00:42:00,020 --> 00:42:00,260
would be trying
another democracy,
874
00:42:00,260 --> 00:42:03,540
would be trying
to get at information
875
00:42:03,540 --> 00:42:08,900
that would apparently identify
vulnerabilities in Australia.
876
00:42:10,260 --> 00:42:15,140
Greens senator David Shoebridge
has been following this case closely.
877
00:42:15,140 --> 00:42:16,300
DAVID SHOEBRIDGE: I was shocked.
878
00:42:16,300 --> 00:42:18,260
It's not the conduct
you'd expect from a friendly nation,
879
00:42:18,260 --> 00:42:19,740
but remember
this is an administration,
880
00:42:19,740 --> 00:42:19,980
but remember
the BJP administration,
881
00:42:19,980 --> 00:42:21,420
the BJP administration,
882
00:42:21,420 --> 00:42:22,660
that has been involved
883
00:42:22,660 --> 00:42:26,740
in the assassination
of a Sikh leader in Canada.
884
00:42:26,740 --> 00:42:30,100
When you reflect
upon that very recent history,
885
00:42:30,100 --> 00:42:31,740
it doesn't seem at all
out of character.
886
00:42:31,740 --> 00:42:35,780
It's part of what I think is
a very disturbing trend we've seen.
887
00:42:38,140 --> 00:42:40,700
This is the Indian High Commission
in Canberra,
888
00:42:40,700 --> 00:42:43,100
and it's where the Modi government's
representatives work
889
00:42:43,100 --> 00:42:43,340
and it's where the Modi government's
here in the country.
890
00:42:43,340 --> 00:42:44,700
here in the country.
891
00:42:44,700 --> 00:42:47,140
It's also where the Indian spies
892
00:42:47,140 --> 00:42:47,380
were pretending
It's also where the Indian spies
893
00:42:47,380 --> 00:42:49,900
were pretending
to be unsuspecting diplomats.
894
00:42:49,900 --> 00:42:51,660
And through the course
of my investigation
895
00:42:51,660 --> 00:42:54,180
I found out something
that's pretty surprising.
896
00:42:54,180 --> 00:42:58,420
It was previously reported that just
two Indian intelligence operatives
897
00:42:58,420 --> 00:43:00,220
were asked to leave the country.
898
00:43:00,220 --> 00:43:05,140
We've now confirmed that at least
four were kicked out of Australia.
899
00:43:10,420 --> 00:43:13,340
The expulsions were done secretly,
900
00:43:13,340 --> 00:43:18,180
and the intelligence operatives
were asked to leave one by one.
901
00:43:18,180 --> 00:43:20,300
The Modi government
thought it got away
902
00:43:20,300 --> 00:43:20,540
The Modi government
without any public embarrassment.
903
00:43:20,540 --> 00:43:23,100
without any public embarrassment.
904
00:43:26,380 --> 00:43:28,900
Australia should have
condemned it publicly at the time.
905
00:43:28,900 --> 00:43:29,140
Australia should have
That not only would've been good
906
00:43:29,140 --> 00:43:30,460
That not only would've been good
907
00:43:30,460 --> 00:43:34,580
to have an honest baseline
for our relationship with India,
908
00:43:34,580 --> 00:43:36,980
but it would've also sent a message
to the diaspora communities here
909
00:43:36,980 --> 00:43:37,220
but it would've also sent a message
that "We've got your back."
910
00:43:37,220 --> 00:43:38,540
that "We've got your back."
911
00:43:41,020 --> 00:43:45,980
The Indian government didn't get
back to our requests for a response.
912
00:43:47,100 --> 00:43:49,820
Australian ministers
declined an interview.
913
00:43:49,820 --> 00:43:50,060
Australian ministers
In a statement a spokesperson said
914
00:43:50,060 --> 00:43:52,300
In a statement a spokesperson said
915
00:43:52,300 --> 00:43:56,660
the government is "deeply concerned
by these allegations."
916
00:43:56,660 --> 00:44:01,460
They said the government "doesn't
tolerate threats of violence."
917
00:44:01,460 --> 00:44:04,340
PENNY WONG: I think the Indian
diaspora has a range of views,
918
00:44:04,340 --> 00:44:04,580
PENNY WONG: I think the Indian
and we have made clear, uh...
919
00:44:04,580 --> 00:44:06,500
and we have made clear, uh...
920
00:44:06,500 --> 00:44:06,740
..in relation
and we have made clear, uh...
921
00:44:06,740 --> 00:44:09,060
..in relation
to democratic debate in Australia
922
00:44:09,060 --> 00:44:09,300
..in relation
that, uh...the non...
923
00:44:09,300 --> 00:44:11,860
that, uh...the non...
924
00:44:11,860 --> 00:44:14,700
..the peaceful expression
of different views
925
00:44:14,700 --> 00:44:16,580
is a key part
of Australia's democracy.
926
00:44:17,540 --> 00:44:19,140
Unlike Canada,
927
00:44:19,140 --> 00:44:22,140
Australia hasn't put
substantial brakes
928
00:44:22,140 --> 00:44:24,860
on the relationship with India.
929
00:44:28,340 --> 00:44:31,060
Isn't it fair
that the Australian government
930
00:44:31,060 --> 00:44:33,420
is pursuing this strong relationship
with India,
931
00:44:33,420 --> 00:44:33,660
is pursuing this strong relationship
considering it's become
932
00:44:33,660 --> 00:44:34,620
considering it's become
933
00:44:34,620 --> 00:44:37,940
such an economic and technological
powerhouse?
934
00:44:37,940 --> 00:44:41,140
Well, I think
it's absolutely a good strategy
935
00:44:41,140 --> 00:44:43,500
to forge close ties with India,
936
00:44:43,500 --> 00:44:47,260
to reach out as a friend to India.
937
00:44:47,260 --> 00:44:51,780
But it's bloody foolhardy
to do it and not protect yourself
938
00:44:51,780 --> 00:44:54,620
when you know
there's an active threat in play.
939
00:44:54,620 --> 00:44:56,620
We have a very recent case study
in Australian history
940
00:44:56,620 --> 00:44:59,820
about what happens when all you see
is money and trade
941
00:44:59,820 --> 00:45:00,060
about what happens when all you see
and a growth economy,
942
00:45:00,060 --> 00:45:01,300
and a growth economy,
943
00:45:01,300 --> 00:45:03,620
and you don't see any
of the kind of concerns.
944
00:45:03,620 --> 00:45:05,340
And it's what we did with China.
945
00:45:05,340 --> 00:45:08,900
It turns out we're repeating many
of the same mistakes with India,
946
00:45:08,900 --> 00:45:12,380
and that's just setting us up
for trouble.
947
00:45:13,740 --> 00:45:17,100
(LAUGHTER, CHATTER)
948
00:45:17,100 --> 00:45:20,100
It's judgement day for Narendra Modi,
949
00:45:20,100 --> 00:45:22,700
and across Australia and the world
950
00:45:22,700 --> 00:45:22,940
people are glued to screens
and across Australia and the world
951
00:45:22,940 --> 00:45:28,100
people are glued to screens
watching election results roll in.
952
00:45:28,100 --> 00:45:28,340
people are glued to screens
(CROWD CHANTS IN HINDI)
953
00:45:28,340 --> 00:45:31,580
(CROWD CHANTS IN HINDI)
954
00:45:31,580 --> 00:45:33,620
(CHEERING)
955
00:45:33,620 --> 00:45:36,780
(SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)
It is. Yeah.
956
00:45:37,740 --> 00:45:41,500
Modi said he'd win this election
in a landslide,
957
00:45:41,500 --> 00:45:41,740
Modi said he'd win this election
but he could barely make a majority.
958
00:45:41,740 --> 00:45:44,420
but he could barely make a majority.
959
00:45:44,420 --> 00:45:46,660
(CHEERING)
960
00:45:46,660 --> 00:45:46,900
It's a defeat for this leader
(CHEERING)
961
00:45:46,900 --> 00:45:51,180
It's a defeat for this leader
who once seemed invincible.
962
00:45:51,180 --> 00:45:53,700
Maybe the result
will take Modi down a notch
963
00:45:53,700 --> 00:45:58,540
and force him to respect India's
strong democratic foundations.
964
00:45:59,500 --> 00:46:01,940
Or he could crack down even more,
965
00:46:01,940 --> 00:46:04,020
changing India forever...
966
00:46:04,980 --> 00:46:08,980
..and testing Australia's desire
to stay close
967
00:46:08,980 --> 00:46:12,860
even at the expense
of its own citizens.
968
00:46:16,300 --> 00:46:18,340
(THEME MUSIC PLAYS)
969
00:46:33,940 --> 00:46:35,660
Captions by Red Bee Media
970
00:46:35,660 --> 00:46:35,900
Copyright
Australian Broadcasting Corporation
Captions by Red Bee Media
971
00:46:35,900 --> 00:46:37,860
Copyright
Australian Broadcasting Corporation