1 00:00:00,020 --> 00:00:02,060 (THEME MUSIC PLAYS) 2 00:00:12,700 --> 00:00:15,940 (BAND PLAYS 'ONLY THE STRONG') 3 00:00:15,940 --> 00:00:16,180 (BAND PLAYS 'ONLY THE STRONG') The first gig that Midnight Oil played 4 00:00:16,180 --> 00:00:17,540 The first gig that Midnight Oil played 5 00:00:17,540 --> 00:00:17,780 The first gig was in a small surf clubby thing 6 00:00:17,780 --> 00:00:22,740 was in a small surf clubby thing 7 00:00:22,740 --> 00:00:24,460 on the coast of New South Wales. 8 00:00:25,420 --> 00:00:29,340 The first gig that I went to by myself was Spiderbait. 9 00:00:29,340 --> 00:00:29,580 The first gig that I went to SARAH THOMPSON: I was lucky 10 00:00:29,580 --> 00:00:30,460 SARAH THOMPSON: I was lucky 11 00:00:30,460 --> 00:00:33,060 to get to go to, like, Grinspoon or Frenzal Rhomb. 12 00:00:34,020 --> 00:00:37,940 AVANI DIAS: Australia has a proud history of home-grown music 13 00:00:37,940 --> 00:00:38,180 AVANI DIAS: Australia has and a passion for live concerts. 14 00:00:38,180 --> 00:00:41,420 and a passion for live concerts. 15 00:00:41,420 --> 00:00:43,820 I was 14, 15 years old 16 00:00:43,820 --> 00:00:44,060 when I saw Billy Thorpe I was 14, 15 years old 17 00:00:44,060 --> 00:00:47,460 when I saw Billy Thorpe and the Aztecs. 18 00:00:47,460 --> 00:00:47,700 when I saw Billy Thorpe (BAND PLAYS 'ONLY THE STRONG' OUTRO) 19 00:00:47,700 --> 00:00:50,820 (BAND PLAYS 'ONLY THE STRONG' OUTRO) 20 00:00:50,820 --> 00:00:55,260 (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) 21 00:00:56,620 --> 00:01:01,100 But the live music industry is under siege. 22 00:01:02,620 --> 00:01:05,580 We're in an extinction event right now. 23 00:01:05,580 --> 00:01:05,820 We're in an extinction event And we have to beg for scraps. 24 00:01:05,820 --> 00:01:07,540 And we have to beg for scraps. 25 00:01:07,540 --> 00:01:09,940 (INAUDIBLE) 26 00:01:09,940 --> 00:01:13,180 While Australia's music festivals and small venues 27 00:01:13,180 --> 00:01:13,420 While Australia's music festivals are fighting for survival, 28 00:01:13,420 --> 00:01:15,260 are fighting for survival, 29 00:01:15,260 --> 00:01:19,860 a multinational company, Live Nation, has crashed the scene... 30 00:01:21,540 --> 00:01:25,020 ..sucking up profits and taking over the industry. 31 00:01:25,980 --> 00:01:30,420 They use and, I would say, misuse their market power. 32 00:01:31,940 --> 00:01:34,660 It's being accused of using its business model 33 00:01:34,660 --> 00:01:34,900 It's being accused to plunder competition. 34 00:01:34,900 --> 00:01:37,220 to plunder competition. 35 00:01:38,980 --> 00:01:40,860 Well, they fucked it up, basically. 36 00:01:42,580 --> 00:01:46,300 In this Four Corners we reveal serious allegations 37 00:01:46,300 --> 00:01:46,580 that Live Nation is ripping off fans In this Four Corners we reveal serious allegations 38 00:01:46,580 --> 00:01:48,900 that Live Nation is ripping off fans 39 00:01:48,900 --> 00:01:49,140 that Live Nation by charging hidden ticket fees 40 00:01:49,140 --> 00:01:51,620 by charging hidden ticket fees 41 00:01:51,620 --> 00:01:51,860 by charging hidden ticket fees and exploiting some of the country's most talented musicians. 42 00:01:51,860 --> 00:01:55,380 and exploiting some of the country's most talented musicians. 43 00:01:55,380 --> 00:01:58,300 Now industry insiders are speaking out 44 00:01:58,300 --> 00:02:03,100 in a last-ditch effort to save Australia's live music culture. 45 00:02:04,780 --> 00:02:06,700 BARKAA: They don't care about our stories. 46 00:02:06,700 --> 00:02:07,940 They don't care how our music moves people. 47 00:02:07,940 --> 00:02:12,500 A country without its own music is a country without a soul. 48 00:02:25,380 --> 00:02:27,260 I bet you've walked on this stage many times. 49 00:02:27,260 --> 00:02:30,020 I have walked on this stage a few times. That's absolutely correct. 50 00:02:30,020 --> 00:02:33,340 Peter Garrett, the iconic Australian rock star 51 00:02:33,340 --> 00:02:33,580 Peter Garrett, and frontman of Midnight Oil, 52 00:02:33,580 --> 00:02:35,300 and frontman of Midnight Oil, 53 00:02:35,300 --> 00:02:40,180 has graced stages with his activist anthems for decades. 54 00:02:40,180 --> 00:02:42,700 ('ONLY THE STRONG' PLAYS) (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) 55 00:02:42,700 --> 00:02:42,940 ('ONLY THE STRONG' PLAYS) When you walk out onto stage, 56 00:02:42,940 --> 00:02:44,380 When you walk out onto stage, 57 00:02:44,380 --> 00:02:45,900 you're really wanting to respond 58 00:02:45,900 --> 00:02:47,460 to the music that's been written 59 00:02:47,460 --> 00:02:47,700 and the performances to the music that's been written 60 00:02:47,700 --> 00:02:49,420 and the performances that are around you. 61 00:02:49,420 --> 00:02:51,660 (SINGS) # When I'm locked in my room... # 62 00:02:53,700 --> 00:02:57,980 And then you want to just share it with the people in front of you. 63 00:02:57,980 --> 00:03:01,900 It's a very impulsive, reflective, 64 00:03:01,900 --> 00:03:04,460 sort of inner-burning thing that happens. 65 00:03:06,980 --> 00:03:09,260 And it's about the connections that you make. 66 00:03:09,260 --> 00:03:12,700 Today he's stepping up with a dire warning 67 00:03:12,700 --> 00:03:17,260 about the world's largest live entertainment company, Live Nation. 68 00:03:17,260 --> 00:03:21,460 It also owns ticketing giant Ticketmaster. 69 00:03:21,460 --> 00:03:25,420 (ROCK MUSIC PLAYS) 70 00:03:26,420 --> 00:03:30,740 Live Nation's been fined hundreds of millions of dollars in the US 71 00:03:30,740 --> 00:03:30,980 Live Nation's been fined hundreds for fraud and overcharging customers. 72 00:03:30,980 --> 00:03:34,500 for fraud and overcharging customers. 73 00:03:34,500 --> 00:03:35,620 Here in Australia 74 00:03:35,620 --> 00:03:38,700 it's been increasing its power for over a decade. 75 00:03:38,700 --> 00:03:38,940 it's been increasing its power (ROCK MUSIC PLAYS) 76 00:03:38,940 --> 00:03:44,660 (ROCK MUSIC PLAYS) 77 00:03:44,660 --> 00:03:44,860 Spotify, TikTok, Live Nation - (ROCK MUSIC PLAYS) 78 00:03:44,860 --> 00:03:48,380 Spotify, TikTok, Live Nation - 79 00:03:48,380 --> 00:03:51,220 these are global entities. 80 00:03:51,220 --> 00:03:53,820 They are not accountable in our country. 81 00:03:53,820 --> 00:03:54,060 They are not accountable in our country. They are hardly regulated. 82 00:03:54,060 --> 00:03:56,220 They are hardly regulated. 83 00:03:56,220 --> 00:03:58,620 They are quite often unethical. 84 00:03:58,620 --> 00:04:03,140 They have no loyalty to Australia or to Australian artists at all, 85 00:04:03,140 --> 00:04:05,100 and they are basically calling the shots. 86 00:04:05,100 --> 00:04:05,340 and they are basically We're at ground zero, 87 00:04:05,340 --> 00:04:06,900 We're at ground zero, 88 00:04:06,900 --> 00:04:07,140 and it has never been harder We're at ground zero, 89 00:04:07,140 --> 00:04:08,940 and it has never been harder for artists, 90 00:04:08,940 --> 00:04:13,180 but particularly younger and mid-range artists coming through. 91 00:04:15,780 --> 00:04:20,420 Over a thousand Australian live music venues have closed recently. 92 00:04:20,420 --> 00:04:22,860 Major festivals have been cancelled 93 00:04:22,860 --> 00:04:26,420 with a devastating effect on grassroots artists. 94 00:04:26,420 --> 00:04:26,660 with a devastating effect Peter Garrett's worried 95 00:04:26,660 --> 00:04:27,900 Peter Garrett's worried 96 00:04:27,900 --> 00:04:28,140 the combined effect of Live Nation's Peter Garrett's worried 97 00:04:28,140 --> 00:04:32,460 the combined effect of Live Nation's takeover and the rise of streaming 98 00:04:32,460 --> 00:04:32,700 the combined effect of Live Nation's have led to that. 99 00:04:32,700 --> 00:04:34,740 have led to that. 100 00:04:34,740 --> 00:04:37,420 Without nurturing your local artists, 101 00:04:37,420 --> 00:04:37,660 Without nurturing who are now getting washed away 102 00:04:37,660 --> 00:04:39,060 who are now getting washed away 103 00:04:39,060 --> 00:04:39,300 in a tidal wave of, you know, who are now getting washed away 104 00:04:39,300 --> 00:04:43,060 in a tidal wave of, you know, sort of big companies... 105 00:04:44,460 --> 00:04:47,580 ..we're finding out that we don't have...we're not hearing our songs, 106 00:04:47,580 --> 00:04:49,700 we're not hearing the things that connect us 107 00:04:49,700 --> 00:04:50,940 to the place that we're in. 108 00:04:50,940 --> 00:04:53,580 For me, that's a healthy country, 109 00:04:53,580 --> 00:04:55,860 you know, when we're listening to OUR songwriters 110 00:04:55,860 --> 00:04:56,100 you know, when we're listening and watching OUR performers. 111 00:04:56,100 --> 00:04:57,700 and watching OUR performers. 112 00:04:57,700 --> 00:04:57,940 I don't think Live Nation cares and watching OUR performers. 113 00:04:57,940 --> 00:05:01,220 I don't think Live Nation cares at all about Australian artists. 114 00:05:01,220 --> 00:05:01,460 I don't think Live Nation cares (INSECTS CHIRP) 115 00:05:01,460 --> 00:05:04,260 (INSECTS CHIRP) 116 00:05:09,460 --> 00:05:12,500 PAUL SLOAN: It's a proper sort of Australian bush experience, I guess, 117 00:05:12,500 --> 00:05:12,740 PAUL SLOAN: It's a proper sort of in this place. 118 00:05:12,740 --> 00:05:14,260 in this place. 119 00:05:18,220 --> 00:05:21,660 This natural phenomenon in southern Western Australia 120 00:05:21,660 --> 00:05:24,860 formed over 2.7 billion years. 121 00:05:24,860 --> 00:05:28,740 It's called Katter Kich in the local Noongar language, 122 00:05:28,740 --> 00:05:28,980 It's called Katter Kich or 'Wave Rock'. 123 00:05:28,980 --> 00:05:30,460 or 'Wave Rock'. 124 00:05:34,260 --> 00:05:35,740 And each spring 125 00:05:35,740 --> 00:05:39,820 it's the setting for a unique independent music festival 126 00:05:39,820 --> 00:05:44,660 that's making a stand against the corporatisation of the industry. 127 00:05:44,660 --> 00:05:44,900 that's making a stand against (TOOLS BUZZ, WHIRR) 128 00:05:44,900 --> 00:05:51,300 (TOOLS BUZZ, WHIRR) 129 00:06:01,460 --> 00:06:04,620 This event is a sort of love show. 130 00:06:08,340 --> 00:06:10,580 You know, with all the talk about festivals collapsing and stuff, 131 00:06:10,580 --> 00:06:11,740 obviously it's a tiny event, 132 00:06:11,740 --> 00:06:15,180 but I'm proud of the fact I can announce it and sell the tickets. 133 00:06:16,700 --> 00:06:20,300 Paul Sloan's organised this festival for 18 years. 134 00:06:20,300 --> 00:06:22,860 He's one of Australia's top booking agents 135 00:06:22,860 --> 00:06:27,580 who helps big artists land and put on live gigs. 136 00:06:29,060 --> 00:06:31,860 Nick Cave, King Gizzard & the Lizard Wizard, 137 00:06:31,860 --> 00:06:32,100 Nick Cave, Amyl and the Sniffers, Bon Iver. 138 00:06:32,100 --> 00:06:34,620 Amyl and the Sniffers, Bon Iver. 139 00:06:34,620 --> 00:06:37,460 I'm about to do Thom Yorke in Australia. 140 00:06:39,060 --> 00:06:42,820 Live shows are now the main income source for musicians, 141 00:06:42,820 --> 00:06:47,060 with streaming platforms making it so hard to make money. 142 00:06:49,500 --> 00:06:50,900 There's been a lot more disruption 143 00:06:50,900 --> 00:06:52,940 probably in our sector than most other sectors. 144 00:06:52,940 --> 00:06:53,180 probably in our sector than most other sectors. But, certainly, 145 00:06:53,180 --> 00:06:55,140 But, certainly, 146 00:06:55,140 --> 00:06:57,940 I think that the consolidation of the music business 147 00:06:57,940 --> 00:06:59,460 that's been going on quite aggressively 148 00:06:59,460 --> 00:07:01,700 for the last few years, I guess five years, 149 00:07:01,700 --> 00:07:01,940 for the last few years, it's been noticeable. 150 00:07:01,940 --> 00:07:02,940 it's been noticeable. 151 00:07:09,780 --> 00:07:14,260 (CHATTER, LAUGHTER) 152 00:07:20,620 --> 00:07:25,420 This consolidation is being led by US company Live Nation. 153 00:07:25,420 --> 00:07:25,700 (ROCK MUSIC PLAYS) # Whoa, oh, oh, whoa-oh-oh! This consolidation is being led by US company Live Nation. 154 00:07:25,700 --> 00:07:28,020 (ROCK MUSIC PLAYS) # Whoa, oh, oh, whoa-oh-oh! 155 00:07:28,020 --> 00:07:31,100 # Whoa, oh, oh, whoa-oh-oh! # 156 00:07:31,100 --> 00:07:31,340 MARK DAVYD: Live Nation # Whoa, oh, oh, whoa-oh-oh! # are making the most money. 157 00:07:31,340 --> 00:07:33,100 MARK DAVYD: Live Nation are making the most money. 158 00:07:33,100 --> 00:07:33,340 Let's not hesitate to say that. are making the most money. 159 00:07:33,340 --> 00:07:34,700 Let's not hesitate to say that. 160 00:07:34,700 --> 00:07:34,940 Let's not hesitate to say that. # Whoa, oh, oh, whoa-oh-oh! # 161 00:07:34,940 --> 00:07:36,780 (ROCK MUSIC PLAYS) # Whoa, oh, oh, whoa-oh-oh! # 162 00:07:36,780 --> 00:07:37,020 (CHEERING) # Whoa, oh, oh, whoa-oh-oh! # 163 00:07:37,020 --> 00:07:39,740 (CHEERING) 164 00:07:39,740 --> 00:07:39,980 (CHEERING) Their share price has gone up and up and up and up. 165 00:07:39,980 --> 00:07:42,940 Their share price has gone up and up and up and up. 166 00:07:42,940 --> 00:07:43,180 Their share price has gone up and up and up and up. Is that good for music? 167 00:07:43,180 --> 00:07:44,820 Is that good for music? 168 00:07:44,820 --> 00:07:47,020 Mm. Jury's out on that one. 169 00:07:47,020 --> 00:07:49,340 How has the entry of Live Nation changed things? 170 00:07:49,340 --> 00:07:49,580 Well, they fucked it up, basically. How has the entry of Live Nation changed things? 171 00:07:49,580 --> 00:07:51,140 Well, they fucked it up, basically. 172 00:07:51,140 --> 00:07:53,700 They pay too much for acts. 173 00:07:53,700 --> 00:07:53,940 They don't care about They pay too much for acts. 174 00:07:53,940 --> 00:07:57,740 They don't care about whether they make a profit or loss. 175 00:07:57,740 --> 00:07:57,980 They don't care about whether they make a profit or loss. It's all about their share prices. 176 00:07:57,980 --> 00:07:59,740 It's all about their share prices. 177 00:07:59,740 --> 00:08:04,580 We first reached out to Live Nation for an interview a month ago 178 00:08:04,580 --> 00:08:08,220 and spoke to the company's media team several times 179 00:08:08,220 --> 00:08:11,100 before they declined our interview request. 180 00:08:11,100 --> 00:08:11,340 before they declined Then, without seeing our program, 181 00:08:11,340 --> 00:08:13,020 Then, without seeing our program, 182 00:08:13,020 --> 00:08:17,300 the company started spamming people in Australia's live music industry, 183 00:08:17,300 --> 00:08:22,100 saying that our story was inaccurate, unbalanced and had an agenda. 184 00:08:22,100 --> 00:08:26,660 Finally Live Nation responded to our detailed questions 185 00:08:26,660 --> 00:08:26,900 Finally Live Nation responded with a legal letter of complaint. 186 00:08:26,900 --> 00:08:29,380 with a legal letter of complaint. 187 00:08:29,380 --> 00:08:33,380 It also said it's proud to have an office in Australia 188 00:08:33,380 --> 00:08:35,620 that champions local talent 189 00:08:35,620 --> 00:08:39,060 and fuels growth in the country's live music industry, 190 00:08:39,060 --> 00:08:39,300 and fuels growth creating thousands of jobs. 191 00:08:39,300 --> 00:08:41,220 creating thousands of jobs. 192 00:08:48,060 --> 00:08:51,100 (PLAYS GUITAR SOLO) 193 00:09:04,780 --> 00:09:08,340 There's a key supply chain behind most concerts. 194 00:09:10,060 --> 00:09:13,020 There's the artist, their manager, 195 00:09:13,020 --> 00:09:15,020 a booking agent like Paul Sloan, 196 00:09:15,020 --> 00:09:16,620 and the promoter, 197 00:09:16,620 --> 00:09:16,860 which finances the show, organises and the promoter, 198 00:09:16,860 --> 00:09:21,700 which finances the show, organises venues, ticketing and marketing. 199 00:09:23,300 --> 00:09:27,700 In the past, many of those players operated independently, 200 00:09:27,700 --> 00:09:31,580 and Live Nation was one of the promoters. 201 00:09:41,980 --> 00:09:43,460 PAUL SLOAN: So, the other company 202 00:09:43,460 --> 00:09:45,740 that's similar to them here and as aggressive, I guess, 203 00:09:45,740 --> 00:09:45,980 that's similar to them here is TEG, which is Ticketek, 204 00:09:45,980 --> 00:09:47,460 is TEG, which is Ticketek, 205 00:09:47,460 --> 00:09:47,700 and they also own promoter interests is TEG, which is Ticketek, 206 00:09:47,700 --> 00:09:52,260 and they also own promoter interests and venue interests. 207 00:09:52,260 --> 00:09:52,540 Live Nation is operating and they also own promoter interests at such scale and venue interests. 208 00:09:52,540 --> 00:09:55,300 Live Nation is operating at such scale 209 00:09:55,300 --> 00:09:55,580 Live Nation is operating that it's difficult at such scale to avoid them. 210 00:09:55,580 --> 00:09:57,900 that it's difficult to avoid them. 211 00:09:58,780 --> 00:09:59,980 Which does then 212 00:09:59,980 --> 00:10:01,820 obviously cause disruption inside the business, 213 00:10:01,820 --> 00:10:02,060 obviously cause disruption you know, the lack of choice. 214 00:10:02,060 --> 00:10:03,500 you know, the lack of choice. 215 00:10:03,500 --> 00:10:05,260 (INAUDIBLE) 216 00:10:05,260 --> 00:10:08,460 Many revenue roads lead to Live Nation. 217 00:10:09,420 --> 00:10:15,900 The company announced record earnings of roughly US$23 billion last year. 218 00:10:19,620 --> 00:10:21,620 No other business 219 00:10:21,620 --> 00:10:25,780 has a financial stake in every part of Australia's live music industry. 220 00:10:25,780 --> 00:10:26,020 has a financial stake in every part So, Live Nation owns 221 00:10:26,020 --> 00:10:27,460 So, Live Nation owns 222 00:10:27,460 --> 00:10:28,980 Moshtix and Ticketmaster, 223 00:10:28,980 --> 00:10:30,260 it operates venues 224 00:10:30,260 --> 00:10:31,820 like the Palais Theatre in Melbourne, 225 00:10:31,820 --> 00:10:34,660 owns Anita's Theatre in Wollongong 226 00:10:34,660 --> 00:10:37,060 and Fortitude Music Hall in Brisbane. 227 00:10:37,060 --> 00:10:38,540 It owns Secret Sounds, 228 00:10:38,540 --> 00:10:40,340 the company behind festivals like 229 00:10:40,340 --> 00:10:42,100 Splendour In The Grass and Falls. 230 00:10:42,100 --> 00:10:43,700 It owns a major Australian 231 00:10:43,700 --> 00:10:46,100 booking agency, Village Sounds, 232 00:10:46,100 --> 00:10:49,020 which represents numerous artists. 233 00:10:49,020 --> 00:10:50,820 It owns touring companies 234 00:10:50,820 --> 00:10:52,700 and TSP Merchandising, 235 00:10:52,700 --> 00:10:54,260 which makes band merch. 236 00:10:54,260 --> 00:10:55,980 So, Live Nation 237 00:10:55,980 --> 00:10:57,740 can get paid numerous times 238 00:10:57,740 --> 00:11:00,220 for the one concert or tour, 239 00:11:00,220 --> 00:11:01,900 and a big slice 240 00:11:01,900 --> 00:11:04,060 of what you pay for as a fan, 241 00:11:04,060 --> 00:11:06,540 from ticketing to drinks and food 242 00:11:06,540 --> 00:11:08,260 to merchandise, 243 00:11:08,260 --> 00:11:10,260 that's vertical integration, 244 00:11:10,260 --> 00:11:13,220 and artists often don't know it's happening. 245 00:11:14,180 --> 00:11:16,460 So, the Live Nation vertical model is - 246 00:11:16,460 --> 00:11:20,060 I book a venue in Australia, it's a Live Nation property, 247 00:11:20,060 --> 00:11:20,300 I book a venue in Australia, so, whatever the venue charges are, 248 00:11:20,300 --> 00:11:23,340 so, whatever the venue charges are, 249 00:11:23,340 --> 00:11:23,580 an alternative agent or promoter so, whatever the venue charges are, 250 00:11:23,580 --> 00:11:25,100 an alternative agent or promoter using the venue 251 00:11:25,100 --> 00:11:27,980 is paying Live Nation to hire the room. 252 00:11:27,980 --> 00:11:30,500 It's a Ticketmaster venue because it's Live Nation venue, 253 00:11:30,500 --> 00:11:33,700 so, it's also their ticketing business. 254 00:11:33,700 --> 00:11:35,740 The rights around the merchandise, 255 00:11:35,740 --> 00:11:37,460 any sponsorship money for the venue... 256 00:11:37,460 --> 00:11:41,300 Obviously, if Live Nation is also the promoter of the show, 257 00:11:41,300 --> 00:11:41,540 Obviously, if Live Nation it's everything, 258 00:11:41,540 --> 00:11:43,500 it's everything, 259 00:11:43,500 --> 00:11:45,100 it's 100% of the income for the show 260 00:11:45,100 --> 00:11:48,060 is pretty much staying within the walls of the company in some way. 261 00:11:49,500 --> 00:11:52,540 (TUNES GUITAR) 262 00:12:02,060 --> 00:12:04,100 ALEX CAMERON: We try to tell stories 263 00:12:04,100 --> 00:12:08,180 about the places that we've grown up in and lived 264 00:12:08,180 --> 00:12:09,700 and Australian stories. 265 00:12:09,700 --> 00:12:11,700 (TESTS DRUMS) 266 00:12:11,700 --> 00:12:13,340 The music that backs that 267 00:12:13,340 --> 00:12:16,420 has always been very rooted in the live setting. 268 00:12:16,420 --> 00:12:19,540 (BAND PLAYS HIGH-TEMPO INTRO) 269 00:12:27,260 --> 00:12:31,540 Many musicians are worried about speaking out against Live Nation 270 00:12:31,540 --> 00:12:34,300 because of the repercussions to their careers. 271 00:12:35,260 --> 00:12:37,940 But one Adelaide band, Bad Dreems, 272 00:12:37,940 --> 00:12:40,940 is taking the risk after their most recent tour. 273 00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:49,460 For them, playing live shows is a unifying, full-body experience. 274 00:12:52,220 --> 00:12:54,180 It's exhilarating, 275 00:12:54,180 --> 00:12:56,220 it's transcendent 276 00:12:56,220 --> 00:12:56,420 and, importantly, that experience it's transcendent 277 00:12:56,420 --> 00:12:57,860 and, importantly, that experience 278 00:12:57,860 --> 00:13:02,700 is connecting not only with your band mates but with a crowd. 279 00:13:02,700 --> 00:13:02,940 is connecting not only with And, so, there's nothing else 280 00:13:02,940 --> 00:13:04,580 And, so, there's nothing else 281 00:13:04,580 --> 00:13:04,820 And, so, there's nothing else that I have ever done that's like that. 282 00:13:04,820 --> 00:13:06,260 that I have ever done that's like that. 283 00:13:06,260 --> 00:13:06,500 that I have ever done Yeah. 284 00:13:06,500 --> 00:13:07,260 Yeah. 285 00:13:07,260 --> 00:13:07,500 You get off stage with this, for me, like a hugely elated feeling Yeah. 286 00:13:07,500 --> 00:13:11,220 You get off stage with this, for me, like a hugely elated feeling 287 00:13:11,220 --> 00:13:11,460 You get off stage with this, as if you've almost been baptised 288 00:13:11,460 --> 00:13:12,900 as if you've almost been baptised 289 00:13:12,900 --> 00:13:14,100 because I'm soaking wet... 290 00:13:14,100 --> 00:13:14,340 because I'm soaking wet... Mm. (CHUCKLES) ..and I'm so excited 291 00:13:14,340 --> 00:13:16,060 Mm. (CHUCKLES) ..and I'm so excited 292 00:13:16,060 --> 00:13:16,300 Mm. (CHUCKLES) about what just happened. 293 00:13:16,300 --> 00:13:17,380 about what just happened. 294 00:13:17,380 --> 00:13:17,620 But, yeah, it was... about what just happened. 295 00:13:17,620 --> 00:13:19,980 But, yeah, it was... You wouldn't have it any other way. 296 00:13:19,980 --> 00:13:22,020 It's all part of the story.. He puts his heart and soul into it. 297 00:13:22,020 --> 00:13:22,260 It's all part of the story.. I give it a crack. Yeah. 298 00:13:22,260 --> 00:13:23,260 I give it a crack. Yeah. 299 00:13:23,260 --> 00:13:27,540 (PLAYS GENTLE MELODY) 300 00:13:30,220 --> 00:13:33,540 Rolling Stone put Bad Dreems' debut album 301 00:13:33,540 --> 00:13:37,900 on a list of the greatest Australian records of all time. 302 00:13:37,900 --> 00:13:38,140 on a list of the greatest (BAND PLAYS MID-TEMPO ROCK MUSIC) 303 00:13:38,140 --> 00:13:42,660 (BAND PLAYS MID-TEMPO ROCK MUSIC) 304 00:13:42,660 --> 00:13:42,900 An opportunity came up to join (BAND PLAYS MID-TEMPO ROCK MUSIC) 305 00:13:42,900 --> 00:13:46,700 An opportunity came up to join booking agency Village Sounds 306 00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:46,940 An opportunity came up to join owned by Live Nation. 307 00:13:46,940 --> 00:13:49,220 owned by Live Nation. 308 00:13:54,860 --> 00:13:56,340 They represent you 309 00:13:56,340 --> 00:13:56,580 and I guess, you know, They represent you 310 00:13:56,580 --> 00:13:59,860 and I guess, you know, shop your band to venues 311 00:13:59,860 --> 00:14:00,100 and I guess, you know, for opportunities to play there. 312 00:14:00,100 --> 00:14:01,340 for opportunities to play there. 313 00:14:01,340 --> 00:14:04,860 They also fill the positions for higher profile support 314 00:14:04,860 --> 00:14:06,100 so that you're playing 315 00:14:06,100 --> 00:14:08,340 much larger venues than you would have otherwise. 316 00:14:08,340 --> 00:14:08,580 much larger venues (BAND PLAYS MID-TEMPO ROCK MUSIC) 317 00:14:08,580 --> 00:14:11,500 (BAND PLAYS MID-TEMPO ROCK MUSIC) 318 00:14:14,060 --> 00:14:19,940 The band got booked for a headline tour at Live Nation venues in 2023. 319 00:14:21,780 --> 00:14:25,380 It grossed about $100,000 of ticket sales, 320 00:14:25,380 --> 00:14:30,980 and we ended up with about, I think, $9,000 in our bank account 321 00:14:30,980 --> 00:14:33,620 at the end after everything had been accounted for. 322 00:14:36,380 --> 00:14:39,300 The tour was promoted by a different company, 323 00:14:39,300 --> 00:14:42,500 but Live Nation owned other businesses involved. 324 00:14:45,420 --> 00:14:46,820 Then we realised... 325 00:14:46,820 --> 00:14:49,260 Yeah, we were paying 10% to our booking agent, 326 00:14:49,260 --> 00:14:50,820 there was a ticketing fee, 327 00:14:50,820 --> 00:14:52,940 then there were venue fees 328 00:14:52,940 --> 00:14:54,820 to the Live Nation-owned venues, 329 00:14:54,820 --> 00:14:59,580 and then those Live Nation-owned venues were also taking a merch cut 330 00:14:59,580 --> 00:15:01,500 of the merch we sold. 331 00:15:01,500 --> 00:15:06,020 And, so, we were paying four times to Live Nation, 332 00:15:06,020 --> 00:15:08,500 and we had no way...that wasn't... 333 00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:10,900 ..we had no way of negotiating that. 334 00:15:10,900 --> 00:15:13,300 And, in fact, when we raised it with our booking agent, 335 00:15:13,300 --> 00:15:16,020 they were just...they sort of... the shoulder shrug. 336 00:15:16,020 --> 00:15:20,580 You know, a few thousand dollars of merch fees 337 00:15:20,580 --> 00:15:24,460 is a pittance to Live Nation. 338 00:15:25,860 --> 00:15:29,460 It's a huge amount of money for a band like us. 339 00:15:29,460 --> 00:15:33,620 And it's very difficult to get answers 340 00:15:33,620 --> 00:15:35,860 or get alternative ways of doing things 341 00:15:35,860 --> 00:15:40,140 once you're intertwined in the industry. 342 00:15:40,940 --> 00:15:44,780 Live Nation told us the economics of its business model 343 00:15:44,780 --> 00:15:48,660 follow the same industry practices as its competitors. 344 00:15:48,660 --> 00:15:51,860 It claims bands approve the budget for a tour, 345 00:15:51,860 --> 00:15:57,100 like venues, ticketing, merch fees and the overall deal. 346 00:15:57,100 --> 00:16:02,780 I think we found it very hard to find advocates or representatives 347 00:16:02,780 --> 00:16:04,260 who will... 348 00:16:05,940 --> 00:16:09,860 ..be able to explain things to you and advocate for you 349 00:16:09,860 --> 00:16:14,260 in contract matters or financial matters. 350 00:16:14,260 --> 00:16:19,420 (BAND PLAYS HIGH-TEMPO ROCK MUSIC) 351 00:16:20,940 --> 00:16:27,060 Bad Dreems has now left Live Nation's booking agency Village Sounds, 352 00:16:27,060 --> 00:16:29,300 but many other major Australian artists 353 00:16:29,300 --> 00:16:29,540 but many other major like Bernard Fanning and G Flip 354 00:16:29,540 --> 00:16:31,780 like Bernard Fanning and G Flip 355 00:16:31,780 --> 00:16:34,260 are still on the company's roster. 356 00:16:37,180 --> 00:16:40,700 Artists don't expect to be making millions of dollars at our level 357 00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:40,940 Artists don't expect to be making or even MAKING money. 358 00:16:40,940 --> 00:16:41,980 or even MAKING money. 359 00:16:41,980 --> 00:16:45,340 Like, we all have jobs to support our music career. 360 00:16:45,340 --> 00:16:45,580 Like, we all have jobs Over the time... 361 00:16:45,580 --> 00:16:47,180 Over the time... 362 00:16:47,180 --> 00:16:49,100 We started off very ignorant about 363 00:16:49,100 --> 00:16:49,300 how it works financially, We started off very ignorant about 364 00:16:49,300 --> 00:16:52,020 how it works financially, 365 00:16:52,020 --> 00:16:53,620 which is obviously on us, 366 00:16:53,620 --> 00:16:55,540 but I don't think many musicians 367 00:16:55,540 --> 00:16:55,740 but I don't think many musicians get into music 368 00:16:55,740 --> 00:16:57,060 get into music 369 00:16:57,060 --> 00:16:59,620 with a background in any of that sort of thing. 370 00:16:59,620 --> 00:17:05,780 Overseas very few artists speak openly about Live Nation's tactics. 371 00:17:05,780 --> 00:17:06,060 Every single step of buying a ticket, going and parking, Overseas very few artists speak openly about Live Nation's tactics. 372 00:17:06,060 --> 00:17:11,180 Every single step of buying a ticket, going and parking, 373 00:17:11,180 --> 00:17:13,140 going to the venue, seeing the show 374 00:17:13,140 --> 00:17:13,380 is owned mostly going to the venue, seeing the show by the same companies, 375 00:17:13,380 --> 00:17:16,140 is owned mostly by the same companies, 376 00:17:16,140 --> 00:17:16,380 who kind of own each other as well. by the same companies, 377 00:17:16,380 --> 00:17:18,180 who kind of own each other as well. 378 00:17:18,180 --> 00:17:21,860 So, it means that price gouging is easy. 379 00:17:21,860 --> 00:17:22,140 So, it means that price gouging is easy. If they want to take 10% of the revenues 380 00:17:22,140 --> 00:17:24,140 If they want to take 10% of the revenues 381 00:17:24,140 --> 00:17:24,380 If they want to take 10% and call it a 'facility fee', 382 00:17:24,380 --> 00:17:26,300 and call it a 'facility fee', 383 00:17:26,300 --> 00:17:28,420 they can and have. 384 00:17:28,420 --> 00:17:28,660 they can and have. If they want to charge $30,000 for the house nut, 385 00:17:28,660 --> 00:17:32,620 If they want to charge $30,000 for the house nut, 386 00:17:32,620 --> 00:17:34,940 they can and have. 387 00:17:34,940 --> 00:17:37,340 And if they want to charge us $250 388 00:17:37,340 --> 00:17:39,380 for a stack of 10 clean towels, 389 00:17:39,380 --> 00:17:40,700 they can 390 00:17:40,700 --> 00:17:41,940 and have. 391 00:17:41,940 --> 00:17:43,620 JOE BERCHTOLD: If Mr Lawrence and others 392 00:17:43,620 --> 00:17:46,140 are not getting the rate card on the service fees up front 393 00:17:46,140 --> 00:17:47,860 and having that made available to them, 394 00:17:47,860 --> 00:17:51,020 that's a problem on our end that I'll look into coming out of this. 395 00:17:51,020 --> 00:17:53,260 THOM TILLIS: That seems like that needs to be there on the front end. 396 00:17:53,260 --> 00:17:53,500 THOM TILLIS: That seems like that needs to be there on the front end. I agree with that. 397 00:17:53,500 --> 00:17:54,940 I agree with that. 398 00:17:55,900 --> 00:17:59,500 (BIRDS TWITTER) 399 00:18:03,780 --> 00:18:07,740 So, how many people does it take to put on Bluesfest? 400 00:18:07,740 --> 00:18:14,060 During the event and the load-out it's 2,600 people are getting paid. 401 00:18:15,900 --> 00:18:17,580 These empty fields 402 00:18:17,580 --> 00:18:22,460 are a powerful example of the damage done to the industry. 403 00:18:22,460 --> 00:18:27,780 The iconic Australian festival Bluesfest in Byron Bay is ending. 404 00:18:29,660 --> 00:18:31,860 Sad to say, it's the last one, 405 00:18:31,860 --> 00:18:33,380 but it doesn't have to be. 406 00:18:34,340 --> 00:18:38,860 Music festivals were once a thriving part of the Australian industry. 407 00:18:38,860 --> 00:18:43,140 Now several have been cancelled or shut down altogether. 408 00:18:44,100 --> 00:18:47,260 We're in an extinction event right now. 409 00:18:47,260 --> 00:18:50,140 The people are leaving this industry. 410 00:18:50,140 --> 00:18:50,420 The people are leaving this industry. Do we want to have our industry be decimated? 411 00:18:50,420 --> 00:18:54,260 Do we want to have our industry be decimated? 412 00:18:54,260 --> 00:18:59,140 And that is what I think we are facing right now. 413 00:19:05,380 --> 00:19:09,180 Festival Splendour In The Grass has run for over 20 years 414 00:19:09,180 --> 00:19:09,420 Festival Splendour In The Grass also in the Byron Bay area. 415 00:19:09,420 --> 00:19:11,660 also in the Byron Bay area. 416 00:19:11,660 --> 00:19:14,940 Live Nation acquired it in 2016. 417 00:19:14,940 --> 00:19:21,580 (ROCK MUSIC PLAYS) 418 00:19:21,580 --> 00:19:24,580 Two weeks after this year's tickets went on sale 419 00:19:24,580 --> 00:19:26,860 the festival was cancelled. 420 00:19:28,060 --> 00:19:29,660 In the last two years 421 00:19:29,660 --> 00:19:32,460 Live Nation has also shelved 422 00:19:32,460 --> 00:19:32,700 festivals at eight locations Live Nation has also shelved 423 00:19:32,700 --> 00:19:35,220 festivals at eight locations across the country, 424 00:19:35,220 --> 00:19:38,860 including Spilt Milk, Falls and Harvest Rock. 425 00:19:38,860 --> 00:19:39,100 including Spilt Milk, Falls (ROCK MUSIC PLAYS) 426 00:19:39,100 --> 00:19:41,860 (ROCK MUSIC PLAYS) 427 00:19:41,860 --> 00:19:44,260 (INAUDIBLE) 428 00:19:44,260 --> 00:19:49,220 Live Nation told us it's strategically postponed festivals 429 00:19:49,220 --> 00:19:49,460 Live Nation told us it's to ensure premium fan experiences 430 00:19:49,460 --> 00:19:52,380 to ensure premium fan experiences 431 00:19:52,380 --> 00:19:56,340 and that the company is confident they'll return. 432 00:19:56,340 --> 00:19:58,700 Splendour In The Past, as they're now calling it, 433 00:19:58,700 --> 00:20:01,140 is no longer with us, 434 00:20:01,140 --> 00:20:04,340 but you only had to look at the shareholders' reports. 435 00:20:04,340 --> 00:20:04,580 but you only had to look They were losing money, 436 00:20:04,580 --> 00:20:06,020 They were losing money, 437 00:20:06,020 --> 00:20:06,260 and I guess that's what happens when They were losing money, 438 00:20:06,260 --> 00:20:09,340 and I guess that's what happens when you're dealing with shareholders, 439 00:20:09,340 --> 00:20:09,580 and I guess that's what happens when that you get jettisoned. 440 00:20:09,580 --> 00:20:11,300 that you get jettisoned. 441 00:20:11,300 --> 00:20:14,900 And I'm sorry to see that because that was a great festival. 442 00:20:14,900 --> 00:20:15,140 And I'm sorry to see that In September 443 00:20:15,140 --> 00:20:16,540 In September 444 00:20:16,540 --> 00:20:16,780 the New South Wales Government In September 445 00:20:16,780 --> 00:20:20,580 the New South Wales Government announced $500,000 446 00:20:20,580 --> 00:20:24,420 of emergency funding to save large festivals. 447 00:20:24,420 --> 00:20:28,260 Bluesfest previously received government funding, 448 00:20:28,260 --> 00:20:31,540 but Peter Noble says it's not enough. 449 00:20:31,540 --> 00:20:36,900 It costs us about $15, $16 million to put the event on. 450 00:20:36,900 --> 00:20:37,140 It costs us about $15, $16 million If they gave us, say, 20% of that, 451 00:20:37,140 --> 00:20:40,420 If they gave us, say, 20% of that, 452 00:20:40,420 --> 00:20:42,820 that would give us the confidence 453 00:20:42,820 --> 00:20:47,860 that we won't lose money in these times, 454 00:20:47,860 --> 00:20:51,620 or, if we do, it won't be so much we can't continue. 455 00:20:51,620 --> 00:20:51,860 or, if we do, it won't be so much We're not asking for a handout, 456 00:20:51,860 --> 00:20:54,180 We're not asking for a handout, 457 00:20:54,180 --> 00:20:59,380 but when I see important events 458 00:20:59,380 --> 00:20:59,620 basically put on but when I see important events 459 00:20:59,620 --> 00:21:02,420 basically put on by multinationals... 460 00:21:04,060 --> 00:21:06,340 ..get grant money, 461 00:21:06,340 --> 00:21:09,900 I go, "Well, I feel like the jilted wife." 462 00:21:13,540 --> 00:21:16,060 We wanted to find out how much funding 463 00:21:16,060 --> 00:21:19,620 Australian governments have given Live Nation. 464 00:21:19,620 --> 00:21:22,940 Documents we got under freedom of information 465 00:21:22,940 --> 00:21:26,700 show the company received tens of millions of dollars 466 00:21:26,700 --> 00:21:26,940 show the company received in taxpayer-funded grants, 467 00:21:26,940 --> 00:21:29,180 in taxpayer-funded grants, 468 00:21:29,180 --> 00:21:33,460 like $5 million for music festivals in New South Wales, 469 00:21:33,460 --> 00:21:37,340 some of which haven't gone ahead for years, 470 00:21:37,340 --> 00:21:41,380 $30,000 for Spilt Milk in Canberra that was cancelled, 471 00:21:41,380 --> 00:21:46,220 and $132,000 for a podcasting festival, 472 00:21:46,220 --> 00:21:46,460 and $132,000 which appears to have been abandoned. 473 00:21:46,460 --> 00:21:49,140 which appears to have been abandoned. 474 00:21:50,900 --> 00:21:52,660 The New South Wales Government 475 00:21:52,660 --> 00:21:55,660 told us grants were awarded for those festivals 476 00:21:55,660 --> 00:21:59,540 because they had a proven track record of delivering events. 477 00:22:02,500 --> 00:22:03,980 Live Nation told us 478 00:22:03,980 --> 00:22:07,260 it redirected money for the New South Wales festivals 479 00:22:07,260 --> 00:22:07,500 it redirected money to other events 480 00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:08,940 to other events 481 00:22:08,940 --> 00:22:11,220 and to retain staff during COVID 482 00:22:11,220 --> 00:22:14,020 and that all grant rules have been followed. 483 00:22:14,020 --> 00:22:14,260 and that all grant rules The company said the Spilt Milk grant 484 00:22:14,260 --> 00:22:16,260 The company said the Spilt Milk grant 485 00:22:16,260 --> 00:22:18,180 will go to next year's event 486 00:22:18,180 --> 00:22:18,420 and the podcasting festival grant will go to next year's event 487 00:22:18,420 --> 00:22:22,020 and the podcasting festival grant has been returned. 488 00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:35,380 The foot soldiers of Australian live music 489 00:22:35,380 --> 00:22:37,420 are gathering to save the industry 490 00:22:37,420 --> 00:22:40,860 at a conference in Brisbane called Bigsound. 491 00:22:42,100 --> 00:22:45,740 They've flown in Mark Davyd to help. 492 00:22:45,740 --> 00:22:45,980 ANNOUNCER: Can I please ask you They've flown in Mark Davyd to help. 493 00:22:45,980 --> 00:22:48,220 ANNOUNCER: Can I please ask you to put your hands together 494 00:22:48,220 --> 00:22:50,780 and give a big Bigsound welcome to Mark Davyd? 495 00:22:50,780 --> 00:22:51,020 and give a big Bigsound welcome (APPLAUSE) 496 00:22:51,020 --> 00:22:52,500 (APPLAUSE) 497 00:22:52,500 --> 00:22:54,420 Hi. How are we? 498 00:22:54,420 --> 00:22:54,660 In the UK he's leading the fight Hi. How are we? 499 00:22:54,660 --> 00:22:58,020 In the UK he's leading the fight to save small venues, 500 00:22:58,020 --> 00:23:03,500 while Live Nation's boasting of record attendance at its concerts. 501 00:23:03,500 --> 00:23:03,740 It's, frankly, disgraceful while Live Nation's boasting of record attendance at its concerts. 502 00:23:03,740 --> 00:23:06,020 It's, frankly, disgraceful 503 00:23:06,020 --> 00:23:09,180 that the biggest companies in the music industry are prepared to see 504 00:23:09,180 --> 00:23:11,740 small venues that get them that talent closing down. 505 00:23:11,740 --> 00:23:12,020 small venues that get them that talent closing down. They should be ashamed of that. They need to be called to account. 506 00:23:12,020 --> 00:23:14,900 They should be ashamed of that. They need to be called to account. 507 00:23:14,900 --> 00:23:17,820 You put on one of the first Oasis gigs, right? 508 00:23:17,820 --> 00:23:22,300 I put on the second show of their Supersonic Tour, 509 00:23:22,300 --> 00:23:24,340 which eventually did 34 dates. 510 00:23:24,340 --> 00:23:25,700 Yeah, I didn't want to, though, 511 00:23:25,700 --> 00:23:29,460 but the agent insisted that we had to have this other band on the bill, 512 00:23:29,460 --> 00:23:31,820 and I said, "Well, who the hell are they?" 513 00:23:31,820 --> 00:23:34,060 And it turned out that they were Oasis. 514 00:23:34,060 --> 00:23:38,140 Of those 34 venues where Oasis first played, how many are still open? 515 00:23:38,140 --> 00:23:38,380 Of those 34 venues where Oasis first 11. 516 00:23:38,380 --> 00:23:39,380 11. 517 00:23:39,380 --> 00:23:42,940 23 have closed in the last 30 years. 518 00:23:42,940 --> 00:23:44,460 Would they ever have become Oasis 519 00:23:44,460 --> 00:23:46,740 if they hadn't played those 34 shows? 520 00:23:46,740 --> 00:23:49,060 You've got to be bad before you're good. 521 00:23:49,060 --> 00:23:52,820 Live Nation is a shareholder company. 522 00:23:52,820 --> 00:23:54,420 It is an investment house, frankly, 523 00:23:54,420 --> 00:23:57,580 where people put money in expecting a return. 524 00:23:57,580 --> 00:23:57,820 where people put money in (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 525 00:23:57,820 --> 00:23:59,260 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 526 00:23:59,260 --> 00:23:59,500 Live Nation's shareholders (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 527 00:23:59,500 --> 00:24:02,500 Live Nation's shareholders include an investment fund 528 00:24:02,500 --> 00:24:07,460 controlled by the Saudi crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman. 529 00:24:07,460 --> 00:24:11,260 Mark Davyd says Live Nation only invests in an artist 530 00:24:11,260 --> 00:24:14,260 once they're famous enough to drive profits, 531 00:24:14,260 --> 00:24:18,540 letting others take the losses involved in developing them. 532 00:24:20,180 --> 00:24:25,100 We're talking...around the world, generally around 1,500 capacity. 533 00:24:25,100 --> 00:24:25,340 We're talking...around the world, At 1,500 capacity, 534 00:24:25,340 --> 00:24:26,780 At 1,500 capacity, 535 00:24:26,780 --> 00:24:27,020 the ticket price At 1,500 capacity, 536 00:24:27,020 --> 00:24:29,420 the ticket price and the number of people in the room 537 00:24:29,420 --> 00:24:33,620 will be sufficient to get you to a profitable live show. 538 00:24:33,620 --> 00:24:36,740 If there is nobody developing the talent from the ground up, 539 00:24:36,740 --> 00:24:40,340 expecting it to arrive at 1,500 capacity 540 00:24:40,340 --> 00:24:41,820 and be able to sell out arenas and stuff, 541 00:24:41,820 --> 00:24:44,460 that seems a massive leap in the dark to me. 542 00:24:45,740 --> 00:24:49,540 Live Nation's recently bought venues at that size, 543 00:24:49,540 --> 00:24:53,780 but told us it also promoted over 900 shows in small venues 544 00:24:53,780 --> 00:24:54,020 but told us it also promoted for developing artists 545 00:24:54,020 --> 00:24:55,380 for developing artists 546 00:24:55,380 --> 00:24:59,580 and that it runs programs to help emerging musicians. 547 00:25:00,540 --> 00:25:04,180 Live Nation bought into this venue, Fortitude Music Hall, 548 00:25:04,180 --> 00:25:04,420 Live Nation bought into this venue, and it opened in 2019. 549 00:25:04,420 --> 00:25:06,300 and it opened in 2019. 550 00:25:06,300 --> 00:25:10,700 It's got a capacity of about 3,300 people, 551 00:25:10,700 --> 00:25:14,460 which means it's the only venue of this size here in Brisbane. 552 00:25:14,460 --> 00:25:18,620 And the company says it's filling a much-needed gap in the market. 553 00:25:18,620 --> 00:25:22,980 That also means every gig of that size that comes through Brisbane 554 00:25:22,980 --> 00:25:23,220 That also means every gig of goes in this Live Nation venue. 555 00:25:23,220 --> 00:25:25,460 goes in this Live Nation venue. 556 00:25:25,460 --> 00:25:26,860 We've also heard 557 00:25:26,860 --> 00:25:32,140 that Live Nation has been trying to buy other venues here in Brisbane 558 00:25:32,140 --> 00:25:32,380 that Live Nation has been trying and it's vying for the rights 559 00:25:32,380 --> 00:25:34,300 and it's vying for the rights 560 00:25:34,300 --> 00:25:34,540 to build an arena and it's vying for the rights 561 00:25:34,540 --> 00:25:36,820 to build an arena for the Brisbane Olympics 562 00:25:36,820 --> 00:25:40,380 that could also host major live shows. 563 00:25:40,380 --> 00:25:40,620 that could also host (INAUDIBLE) 564 00:25:40,620 --> 00:25:44,340 (INAUDIBLE) 565 00:25:44,340 --> 00:25:46,460 Mark Davyd's pitching a solution 566 00:25:46,460 --> 00:25:46,700 to stop small venues Mark Davyd's pitching a solution 567 00:25:46,700 --> 00:25:49,500 to stop small venues from shutting down - 568 00:25:49,500 --> 00:25:53,380 a ticket levy, where a dollar from every ticket for a major concert 569 00:25:53,380 --> 00:25:56,460 would go to a struggling part of the industry. 570 00:25:56,460 --> 00:26:00,220 The UK Parliament endorsed the concept, 571 00:26:00,220 --> 00:26:05,380 but asked companies like Live Nation to be proactive in rolling it out. 572 00:26:07,060 --> 00:26:09,340 I think we can pretty clearly say, 573 00:26:09,340 --> 00:26:12,340 it doesn't matter how many times they say they're prepared to do it, 574 00:26:12,340 --> 00:26:14,580 the will simply isn't there to get it done. 575 00:26:15,940 --> 00:26:19,540 The first test for the company to roll out the levy 576 00:26:19,540 --> 00:26:23,380 was when tickets for Oasis's surprise comeback tour in the UK 577 00:26:23,380 --> 00:26:23,620 was when tickets for Oasis's went on sale last month. 578 00:26:23,620 --> 00:26:25,540 went on sale last month. 579 00:26:25,540 --> 00:26:30,140 Live Nation won the contract to promote the British band's reunion 580 00:26:30,140 --> 00:26:34,700 and used its company, Ticketmaster, to sell the tickets. 581 00:26:35,940 --> 00:26:39,060 This is the first big one, and they failed. Simple as that. 582 00:26:39,060 --> 00:26:39,300 This is the first big one, There's no point in sugarcoating it. 583 00:26:39,300 --> 00:26:40,900 There's no point in sugarcoating it. 584 00:26:40,900 --> 00:26:41,100 415 euro for a standing ticket There's no point in sugarcoating it. 585 00:26:41,100 --> 00:26:44,820 415 euro for a standing ticket 586 00:26:44,820 --> 00:26:47,140 because of fucking Ticketmaster! 587 00:26:47,140 --> 00:26:47,340 because of fucking Ticketmaster! It's hell in there. It's horror. 588 00:26:47,340 --> 00:26:50,060 It's hell in there. It's horror. 589 00:26:50,060 --> 00:26:53,740 Live Nation and Ticketmaster then faced a public outcry. 590 00:26:53,740 --> 00:26:55,620 £500. Fuck off! 591 00:26:55,620 --> 00:26:58,580 Oasis fans waited hours to get tickets. 592 00:26:58,580 --> 00:27:01,300 Once they finally got through the online queue, 593 00:27:01,300 --> 00:27:05,420 prices were much higher than originally advertised. 594 00:27:05,420 --> 00:27:08,180 They have gone ridiculously up. 595 00:27:08,180 --> 00:27:11,260 It's a concept called 'dynamic pricing'. 596 00:27:11,260 --> 00:27:14,940 As a show gets more popular, its ticket price goes up. 597 00:27:14,940 --> 00:27:19,060 It's another way Live Nation's making a killing. 598 00:27:19,060 --> 00:27:23,700 That's caused a huge, huge press and media attention in the UK. 599 00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:27,340 And we have the UK government now looking at dynamic pricing. 600 00:27:28,580 --> 00:27:30,780 It unlocked a public battle 601 00:27:30,780 --> 00:27:31,020 over who's responsible It unlocked a public battle 602 00:27:31,020 --> 00:27:34,740 over who's responsible for setting ticket prices. 603 00:27:34,740 --> 00:27:38,820 Oasis said it didn't know dynamic pricing would be used. 604 00:27:38,820 --> 00:27:39,060 Oasis said it didn't know Ticketmaster blamed the band. 605 00:27:39,060 --> 00:27:41,500 Ticketmaster blamed the band. 606 00:27:42,460 --> 00:27:47,300 Live Nation told us there's no algorithmic surge pricing system, 607 00:27:47,300 --> 00:27:53,340 but the company offers artists tools for them to understand demand. 608 00:27:53,340 --> 00:27:56,700 (SINGS) # I said e-e-e-e-h o-o-o-h-h-h... # 609 00:27:56,700 --> 00:27:58,100 They say Live Nation and Ticketmaster 610 00:27:58,100 --> 00:28:01,460 are now using dynamic pricing in Australia, 611 00:28:01,460 --> 00:28:04,340 most recently for punk band Green Day's tour. 612 00:28:04,340 --> 00:28:04,580 most recently (BAND PLAYS 'KNOW YOUR ENEMY') 613 00:28:04,580 --> 00:28:06,060 (BAND PLAYS 'KNOW YOUR ENEMY') 614 00:28:06,060 --> 00:28:06,300 # Do you know the enemy? (BAND PLAYS 'KNOW YOUR ENEMY') 615 00:28:06,300 --> 00:28:09,340 # Do you know the enemy? Do you know your enemy? 616 00:28:09,340 --> 00:28:12,020 # You gotta know the enemy Rah-eh... # 617 00:28:14,180 --> 00:28:19,020 What's really frustrating music fans is the rising cost of tickets. 618 00:28:19,020 --> 00:28:23,300 We've discovered Ticketmaster and its Australian competitor Ticketek 619 00:28:23,300 --> 00:28:26,220 are secretly charging you numerous fees. 620 00:28:26,220 --> 00:28:28,860 We've been leaked confidential documents 621 00:28:28,860 --> 00:28:29,100 We've been leaked revealing just how this happens. 622 00:28:29,100 --> 00:28:31,340 revealing just how this happens. 623 00:28:31,340 --> 00:28:31,580 For a gig at the Live Nation-operated revealing just how this happens. 624 00:28:31,580 --> 00:28:35,380 For a gig at the Live Nation-operated Palais Theatre in Melbourne, 625 00:28:35,380 --> 00:28:41,180 tickets over $65 are slapped with a hidden service fee of $3.18, 626 00:28:41,180 --> 00:28:41,420 tickets over $65 are slapped a hidden booking fee of $6.77 627 00:28:41,420 --> 00:28:44,940 a hidden booking fee of $6.77 628 00:28:44,940 --> 00:28:46,820 and a hidden credit card fee, 629 00:28:46,820 --> 00:28:51,500 which they curiously call an 'infrastructure fee', of $0.13. 630 00:28:51,500 --> 00:28:55,220 That's roughly $10 in fees you aren't told about. 631 00:28:55,220 --> 00:28:55,500 Ticketmaster then charges you a transaction fee of more than $7. That's roughly $10 in fees you aren't told about. 632 00:28:55,500 --> 00:29:00,500 Ticketmaster then charges you a transaction fee of more than $7. 633 00:29:00,500 --> 00:29:01,580 This one's public. 634 00:29:01,580 --> 00:29:03,540 If it's a Ticketmaster resale, 635 00:29:03,540 --> 00:29:06,620 that fee jumps to around $17, 636 00:29:06,620 --> 00:29:09,060 and you can pay up to $11 637 00:29:09,060 --> 00:29:10,340 for ticket insurance, 638 00:29:10,340 --> 00:29:11,980 depending on the gig. 639 00:29:11,980 --> 00:29:15,460 In total that's around $30 to $40. 640 00:29:16,460 --> 00:29:19,820 So, they're called transaction fees, booking fees, 641 00:29:19,820 --> 00:29:20,060 So, they're called transaction fees, service fees, infrastructure fees. 642 00:29:20,060 --> 00:29:22,380 service fees, infrastructure fees. 643 00:29:22,380 --> 00:29:23,860 There's, like, about 10 names 644 00:29:23,860 --> 00:29:24,060 There's, like, about 10 names that have come out of nowhere. 645 00:29:24,060 --> 00:29:26,060 that have come out of nowhere. 646 00:29:26,060 --> 00:29:26,300 I used to run a ticket business that have come out of nowhere. 647 00:29:26,300 --> 00:29:29,940 I used to run a ticket business and I used to have a booking fee. 648 00:29:29,940 --> 00:29:30,180 I used to run a ticket business It's the one name. 649 00:29:30,180 --> 00:29:31,220 It's the one name. 650 00:29:31,220 --> 00:29:34,100 And it was cheap, and I still made money. 651 00:29:34,100 --> 00:29:34,340 And it was cheap, And then there's often a fee 652 00:29:34,340 --> 00:29:36,540 And then there's often a fee 653 00:29:36,540 --> 00:29:38,860 called the 'inside charge'. 654 00:29:38,860 --> 00:29:39,100 Paul Sloan is one of multiple industry people we've spoken to called the 'inside charge'. 655 00:29:39,100 --> 00:29:42,980 Paul Sloan is one of multiple industry people we've spoken to 656 00:29:42,980 --> 00:29:45,500 who can't get a straight answer about it. 657 00:29:46,380 --> 00:29:48,620 And I say to venues all the time, "What is the inside charge for?" 658 00:29:48,620 --> 00:29:50,380 And they say, "Oh, you know, it's the inside charge." 659 00:29:50,380 --> 00:29:53,100 It's a multi-billion-dollar company that can lose money 660 00:29:53,100 --> 00:29:55,660 because they're supported by a ticket business, 661 00:29:55,660 --> 00:29:59,980 which is really charging money for things that don't exist. 662 00:30:00,940 --> 00:30:04,860 We didn't find out what the inside charge is either. 663 00:30:04,860 --> 00:30:06,500 We know that there's a fee there, 664 00:30:06,500 --> 00:30:10,460 and no-one has ever explained to us what it entails. 665 00:30:10,460 --> 00:30:13,580 And as you go on and you keep looking at the bank account 666 00:30:13,580 --> 00:30:16,420 and trying to work out how you're going to record your next album 667 00:30:16,420 --> 00:30:17,780 or do your next tour, 668 00:30:17,780 --> 00:30:17,980 you do start to ask questions, or do your next tour, 669 00:30:17,980 --> 00:30:19,460 you do start to ask questions, 670 00:30:19,460 --> 00:30:23,700 and the answers to those questions are pretty hard to find. 671 00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:23,940 and the answers to those questions are pretty hard to find. On the ticket prices, 672 00:30:23,940 --> 00:30:25,300 On the ticket prices, 673 00:30:25,300 --> 00:30:25,540 because Live Nation says On the ticket prices, 674 00:30:25,540 --> 00:30:28,100 because Live Nation says the artist sets the ticket price 675 00:30:28,100 --> 00:30:28,340 because Live Nation says and gets the majority of that share, 676 00:30:28,340 --> 00:30:29,700 and gets the majority of that share, 677 00:30:29,700 --> 00:30:30,740 is that true? 678 00:30:32,500 --> 00:30:38,020 The artist does set a range of ticket price to where it is. 679 00:30:39,300 --> 00:30:43,220 The artist doesn't set the booking fee, 680 00:30:43,220 --> 00:30:48,380 doesn't set any other hidden fees that exist within that ticket price, 681 00:30:48,380 --> 00:30:51,740 of which there are plenty of examples. 682 00:30:51,740 --> 00:30:56,100 So, the artist is not receiving that amount 683 00:30:56,100 --> 00:30:58,620 that's reflected in the ticket price. 684 00:30:59,900 --> 00:31:02,780 Live Nation said Ticketmaster doesn't set fees, 685 00:31:02,780 --> 00:31:07,540 but venues do to cover costs for the venue and ticketing company. 686 00:31:07,540 --> 00:31:10,380 It said Ticketmaster discloses certain fees, 687 00:31:10,380 --> 00:31:13,940 which support services like "tech development and innovation, 688 00:31:13,940 --> 00:31:16,940 "customer service, security and compliance," 689 00:31:16,940 --> 00:31:21,100 and the cost of touring has "dramatically increased after COVID," 690 00:31:21,100 --> 00:31:26,500 so, "ticket prices need to compensate touring artists" for that. 691 00:31:27,900 --> 00:31:30,140 Live Nation own the venues, 692 00:31:30,140 --> 00:31:30,380 they are the promoters and they own the ticket company. Live Nation own the venues, 693 00:31:30,380 --> 00:31:33,540 they are the promoters and they own the ticket company. 694 00:31:33,540 --> 00:31:35,060 Put those three things together 695 00:31:35,060 --> 00:31:36,260 and they are controlling 696 00:31:36,260 --> 00:31:36,460 and they are controlling what the tickets are. 697 00:31:36,460 --> 00:31:37,740 what the tickets are. 698 00:31:38,700 --> 00:31:43,500 Rival Ticketek told us that any fees are for the investment in services 699 00:31:43,500 --> 00:31:47,460 to improve consumer ticketing experiences. 700 00:31:48,420 --> 00:31:52,700 (SINGS) # Oh, oh! The power and the passion... # 701 00:31:52,700 --> 00:31:56,980 Midnight Oil is one of Australia's most successful rock bands, 702 00:31:56,980 --> 00:31:59,740 selling out gigs in the US and Europe. 703 00:31:59,740 --> 00:31:59,980 selling out gigs # Oh, the power and the passion... # 704 00:31:59,980 --> 00:32:03,580 # Oh, the power and the passion... # 705 00:32:03,580 --> 00:32:07,260 We've had to play at Live Nation venues in cities in America 706 00:32:07,260 --> 00:32:08,740 'cause there are no other venues 707 00:32:08,740 --> 00:32:11,220 because Live Nation has them all tied up. 708 00:32:11,220 --> 00:32:14,380 We're not at the point of where the US is. 709 00:32:14,380 --> 00:32:15,740 What will that mean for Australia? 710 00:32:15,740 --> 00:32:18,780 Well, it will mean increased ticket prices, for starters. 711 00:32:18,780 --> 00:32:19,020 Well, it will mean increased It will mean a lack of diversity 712 00:32:19,020 --> 00:32:21,260 It will mean a lack of diversity 713 00:32:21,260 --> 00:32:26,100 in the way in which people are presented. 714 00:32:26,100 --> 00:32:29,420 But, most importantly, it will be a lack of competition. 715 00:32:29,420 --> 00:32:32,900 We've seen more than 1,300 small venues in Australia 716 00:32:32,900 --> 00:32:34,740 shut down in the last couple of years. 717 00:32:34,740 --> 00:32:38,820 How does that make you feel seeing those small venues shut? 718 00:32:38,820 --> 00:32:41,140 I think it's terrible that the small venues have closed down. 719 00:32:41,140 --> 00:32:43,420 I mean, that's where people of my generation, 720 00:32:43,420 --> 00:32:46,140 musicians of my generation, that's... 721 00:32:46,140 --> 00:32:46,380 musicians of my generation, I mean, we never would have emerged 722 00:32:46,380 --> 00:32:47,620 I mean, we never would have emerged 723 00:32:47,620 --> 00:32:47,860 if we couldn't have played in small I mean, we never would have emerged 724 00:32:47,860 --> 00:32:50,100 if we couldn't have played in small venues. That's the truth of it. 725 00:32:50,100 --> 00:32:54,580 I would say that the best way for me to describe how I feel about it 726 00:32:54,580 --> 00:32:57,140 is that I'm a cultural patriot, you know, 727 00:32:57,140 --> 00:32:59,500 and I believe that we need to make sure 728 00:32:59,500 --> 00:32:59,740 and I believe that governments have rules in place 729 00:32:59,740 --> 00:33:02,460 that governments have rules in place 730 00:33:02,460 --> 00:33:05,260 to protect and nourish Australian artists, 731 00:33:05,260 --> 00:33:05,500 to protect and nourish and their Australian fans 732 00:33:05,500 --> 00:33:07,540 and their Australian fans 733 00:33:07,540 --> 00:33:07,780 get the opportunity and their Australian fans 734 00:33:07,780 --> 00:33:10,460 get the opportunity and do take up that opportunity 735 00:33:10,460 --> 00:33:10,700 get the opportunity to support them as well. 736 00:33:10,700 --> 00:33:12,300 to support them as well. 737 00:33:12,300 --> 00:33:14,780 And at the moment that's not happening. 738 00:33:14,780 --> 00:33:19,540 Australia's Arts Minister has put Live Nation on notice. 739 00:33:19,540 --> 00:33:19,780 I don't think there's any doubt Australia's Arts Minister has put Live Nation on notice. 740 00:33:19,780 --> 00:33:22,060 I don't think there's any doubt 741 00:33:22,060 --> 00:33:25,260 that we are heading down a pathway 742 00:33:25,260 --> 00:33:28,340 where these sorts of anti-competitive risks 743 00:33:28,340 --> 00:33:28,620 where these sorts of anti-competitive risks are going to exist within the music sector, 744 00:33:28,620 --> 00:33:32,100 are going to exist within the music sector, 745 00:33:32,100 --> 00:33:35,900 so, I put down a very clear warning 746 00:33:35,900 --> 00:33:37,380 to the companies on that. 747 00:33:37,380 --> 00:33:41,380 Yes, you can buy different parts of a supply chain. 748 00:33:41,380 --> 00:33:42,660 That's all true. 749 00:33:42,660 --> 00:33:46,380 But you can't then use that in an anti-competitive way. 750 00:33:46,380 --> 00:33:49,380 And increasingly we are hearing those complaints 751 00:33:49,380 --> 00:33:52,980 from artists, from venues, from festivals. 752 00:33:52,980 --> 00:33:56,420 One thing that Live Nation is doing here, like it is in other countries, 753 00:33:56,420 --> 00:33:56,660 One thing that Live Nation is doing is using dynamic pricing. 754 00:33:56,660 --> 00:33:57,980 is using dynamic pricing. 755 00:33:57,980 --> 00:34:01,540 It's being investigated in the UK. Should it be allowed in Australia? 756 00:34:01,540 --> 00:34:04,740 Surge pricing is something that, as consumers, 757 00:34:04,740 --> 00:34:06,100 people have always dealt with. 758 00:34:06,100 --> 00:34:08,260 I don't love it, but I think we have to be realistic, 759 00:34:08,260 --> 00:34:08,500 I don't love it, but I think it's always been there. 760 00:34:08,500 --> 00:34:09,700 it's always been there. 761 00:34:09,700 --> 00:34:11,740 It's not something we're looking at at the moment. 762 00:34:11,740 --> 00:34:13,180 It's not something we're looking at at the moment. 763 00:34:21,260 --> 00:34:23,900 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 764 00:34:23,900 --> 00:34:24,140 One of Australia's top rappers, (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 765 00:34:24,140 --> 00:34:26,060 One of Australia's top rappers, Barkaa, 766 00:34:26,060 --> 00:34:29,740 is trying to sidestep the corporate players. 767 00:34:29,740 --> 00:34:29,980 is trying to sidestep (LAUGHS) 768 00:34:29,980 --> 00:34:31,140 (LAUGHS) 769 00:34:31,140 --> 00:34:33,340 Can we take a quick pic? Of course, yeah. 770 00:34:33,340 --> 00:34:37,700 She's amassed such a following she's now touring independently. 771 00:34:37,700 --> 00:34:37,940 She's amassed such a following (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 772 00:34:37,940 --> 00:34:39,980 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 773 00:34:39,980 --> 00:34:42,980 Most of our tours, we're self-run. 774 00:34:42,980 --> 00:34:43,220 Most of our tours, That's not easy for artists 775 00:34:43,220 --> 00:34:44,780 That's not easy for artists 776 00:34:44,780 --> 00:34:45,020 'cause it costs a lot of money That's not easy for artists 777 00:34:45,020 --> 00:34:47,820 'cause it costs a lot of money to put on shows. 778 00:34:47,820 --> 00:34:51,620 She's hosting a listening party for her new EP, 779 00:34:51,620 --> 00:34:51,860 She's hosting a listening party where you can get a free tattoo. 780 00:34:51,860 --> 00:34:54,100 where you can get a free tattoo. 781 00:34:54,940 --> 00:34:57,180 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 782 00:34:57,180 --> 00:34:59,180 We're all twinning. 783 00:35:00,100 --> 00:35:02,740 Money's, like, good when it is, but it's, like, 784 00:35:02,740 --> 00:35:02,980 you know that it's, like... Money's, like, good when it is, but it's, like, 785 00:35:02,980 --> 00:35:03,900 you know that it's, like... 786 00:35:03,900 --> 00:35:06,460 ..there's still money getting taken out of our mouths 787 00:35:06,460 --> 00:35:06,700 ..there's still money at the same time. 788 00:35:06,700 --> 00:35:07,620 at the same time. 789 00:35:07,620 --> 00:35:11,380 Like, it could be better if we weren't lining the pockets of... 790 00:35:11,380 --> 00:35:11,620 Like, it could be better if we weren't lining the pockets of... ..yeah, people who...yeah... 791 00:35:11,620 --> 00:35:14,460 ..yeah, people who...yeah... 792 00:35:14,460 --> 00:35:16,860 ..dodgy cunts, you know. (LAUGHS) 793 00:35:16,860 --> 00:35:18,340 Maybe don't say... Oh! 794 00:35:18,340 --> 00:35:20,580 (LAUGHTER) Dodgy fuckwits! 795 00:35:20,580 --> 00:35:22,220 Nuh, um... (LAUGHS) (LAUGHTER) 796 00:35:22,220 --> 00:35:22,460 Nuh, um... (LAUGHS) I'm gonna get the same thing too. 797 00:35:22,460 --> 00:35:23,740 I'm gonna get the same thing too. 798 00:35:23,740 --> 00:35:25,940 Barkaa recently won Artist of the Year 799 00:35:25,940 --> 00:35:28,460 at the National Indigenous Music Awards. 800 00:35:29,660 --> 00:35:33,260 She says the government needs to regulate live music. 801 00:35:36,180 --> 00:35:38,660 It's kind of like, you know, a cowboy industry 802 00:35:38,660 --> 00:35:38,900 It's kind of like, you know, where we're kind of like... 803 00:35:38,900 --> 00:35:40,140 where we're kind of like... 804 00:35:40,140 --> 00:35:42,140 ..we don't have regulations, we don't have sick leaves, 805 00:35:42,140 --> 00:35:42,380 ..we don't have regulations, we don't have benefits or nothing. 806 00:35:42,380 --> 00:35:43,700 we don't have benefits or nothing. 807 00:35:43,700 --> 00:35:43,940 I feel like I've met we don't have benefits or nothing. 808 00:35:43,940 --> 00:35:46,180 I feel like I've met more trustworthy crackheads 809 00:35:46,180 --> 00:35:48,060 than I have people in this industry. 810 00:35:48,060 --> 00:35:50,580 And that says a lot. Yeah. 811 00:35:51,540 --> 00:35:53,860 What's the promoter actually do? 812 00:35:53,860 --> 00:35:56,020 Risks his balls every day. 813 00:35:56,980 --> 00:36:00,380 In Australia there are three big promoters - 814 00:36:00,380 --> 00:36:02,340 Live Nation's biggest competitor here, 815 00:36:02,340 --> 00:36:06,260 veteran Michael Chugg and his business partner Frontier Touring 816 00:36:06,260 --> 00:36:09,460 who brought artists like Paul McCartney and Elton John 817 00:36:09,460 --> 00:36:10,900 to Australia, 818 00:36:10,900 --> 00:36:14,220 among the most profitable shows last year, 819 00:36:14,220 --> 00:36:18,340 TEG, which made over $220 million last year 820 00:36:18,340 --> 00:36:22,420 and owns Ticketek, the largest ticketing agent in Australia, 821 00:36:22,420 --> 00:36:23,780 and Live Nation, 822 00:36:23,780 --> 00:36:28,300 which says there's more competition in the industry than ever before. 823 00:36:28,300 --> 00:36:33,220 Its global profits and management of hundreds of artists like Coldplay 824 00:36:33,220 --> 00:36:37,100 are helping it edge out Australian promoters. 825 00:36:37,100 --> 00:36:41,900 (CHEERING) 826 00:36:41,900 --> 00:36:45,020 Well, I lost Coldplay to Live Nation. 827 00:36:45,020 --> 00:36:47,260 That's the biggest one I've lost to them. 828 00:36:47,260 --> 00:36:53,900 I started with Coldplay in a 200-seater venue way back 829 00:36:53,900 --> 00:36:54,140 and we built together to get... I started with Coldplay in a 200-seater venue way back 830 00:36:54,140 --> 00:36:56,420 and we built together to get... 831 00:36:56,420 --> 00:36:58,700 ..and we got it to stadiums and... 832 00:36:58,700 --> 00:37:00,660 So, Live Nation offered them 833 00:37:00,660 --> 00:37:00,860 So, Live Nation offered them a worldwide tour. 834 00:37:00,860 --> 00:37:02,900 a worldwide tour. 835 00:37:02,900 --> 00:37:08,100 And I know that Chris Martin didn't want to leave us, 836 00:37:08,100 --> 00:37:12,180 but in the end Live Nation just kept adding millions and millions, 837 00:37:12,180 --> 00:37:12,420 but in the end Live Nation just kept and in the end we lost out. 838 00:37:12,420 --> 00:37:14,300 and in the end we lost out. 839 00:37:15,260 --> 00:37:17,860 You've had a strong relationship with Chris Martin. 840 00:37:17,860 --> 00:37:20,020 I mean, how did he feel about letting you go? 841 00:37:20,020 --> 00:37:20,260 I mean, how did he feel Well, he... 842 00:37:20,260 --> 00:37:21,340 Well, he... 843 00:37:22,780 --> 00:37:24,980 Money speaks. I mean... 844 00:37:24,980 --> 00:37:26,060 It's... 845 00:37:26,060 --> 00:37:30,460 They're not going to throw away another whatever it was. 846 00:37:30,460 --> 00:37:32,900 They're not going to throw that away 847 00:37:32,900 --> 00:37:34,820 to stay loyal to us. 848 00:37:36,300 --> 00:37:38,020 We asked Live Nation 849 00:37:38,020 --> 00:37:42,140 if it gave Coldplay millions to secure its tours in Australia, 850 00:37:42,140 --> 00:37:42,380 if it gave Coldplay millions and the company said no. 851 00:37:42,380 --> 00:37:44,620 and the company said no. 852 00:37:46,900 --> 00:37:49,300 Before Live Nation entered the country, 853 00:37:49,300 --> 00:37:54,580 Chugg along with the late Michael Gudinski were Australia's top dogs. 854 00:37:56,740 --> 00:37:59,620 Before Live Nation came into the picture, 855 00:37:59,620 --> 00:38:02,780 do you think you had that sort of domination, you and Gudinski? 856 00:38:02,780 --> 00:38:03,020 do you think you had that sort I suppose so. 857 00:38:03,020 --> 00:38:04,900 I suppose so. 858 00:38:04,900 --> 00:38:06,900 We didn't abuse it, though. 859 00:38:06,900 --> 00:38:09,820 Why did you both come back together? 860 00:38:09,820 --> 00:38:11,380 To fight Live Nation. 861 00:38:11,380 --> 00:38:14,180 We've survived and continue to survive. 862 00:38:14,180 --> 00:38:14,420 We've survived We're promoters. 863 00:38:14,420 --> 00:38:16,660 We're promoters. 864 00:38:16,660 --> 00:38:21,060 If we got a tour or a festival or anything 865 00:38:21,060 --> 00:38:24,020 and it goes on sale and it's not good, 866 00:38:24,020 --> 00:38:24,260 and it goes on sale we don't cancel it. 867 00:38:24,260 --> 00:38:25,500 we don't cancel it. 868 00:38:25,500 --> 00:38:30,020 We work our arses off to try and make it at least break even 869 00:38:30,020 --> 00:38:34,620 or take the potential loss from $1 million to $100,000. 870 00:38:34,620 --> 00:38:34,860 or take the potential loss They don't. They cancel it. 871 00:38:34,860 --> 00:38:37,420 They don't. They cancel it. 872 00:38:37,420 --> 00:38:41,260 We put this to Live Nation, and the company denied it. 873 00:38:41,260 --> 00:38:41,500 We put this to Live Nation, Michael Chugg says he and Frontier 874 00:38:41,500 --> 00:38:43,540 Michael Chugg says he and Frontier 875 00:38:43,540 --> 00:38:43,780 have managed to keep Michael Chugg says he and Frontier 876 00:38:43,780 --> 00:38:46,620 have managed to keep touring megastars in Australia 877 00:38:46,620 --> 00:38:50,540 who've been frustrated by Live Nation's work overseas. 878 00:38:50,540 --> 00:38:50,780 who've been frustrated (CHEERING) 879 00:38:50,780 --> 00:38:53,580 (CHEERING) 880 00:38:53,580 --> 00:38:57,580 Taylor Swift is a key example of that. 881 00:38:57,580 --> 00:39:01,140 A debacle over Ticketmaster's sales for her US tour 882 00:39:01,140 --> 00:39:01,380 prompted American politicians A debacle over Ticketmaster's sales for her US tour 883 00:39:01,380 --> 00:39:03,060 prompted American politicians 884 00:39:03,060 --> 00:39:04,540 to question whether 885 00:39:04,540 --> 00:39:04,780 to question whether Live Nation's business model is legal. 886 00:39:04,780 --> 00:39:07,300 Live Nation's business model is legal. 887 00:39:07,300 --> 00:39:07,580 You can't have too much consolidation, Live Nation's business model is legal. 888 00:39:07,580 --> 00:39:10,060 You can't have too much consolidation, 889 00:39:10,060 --> 00:39:12,900 something that, unfortunately for this country, 890 00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:13,140 something that, as a ode to Taylor Swift, 891 00:39:13,140 --> 00:39:15,580 as a ode to Taylor Swift, 892 00:39:15,580 --> 00:39:19,060 I will say we know all too well. 893 00:39:20,380 --> 00:39:21,580 In 2010 894 00:39:21,580 --> 00:39:26,100 the US Government allowed Live Nation and Ticketmaster to combine 895 00:39:26,100 --> 00:39:30,060 despite concerns it would allow them to dominate the industry 896 00:39:30,060 --> 00:39:34,700 and eventually create situations like Taylor Swift's US tour. 897 00:39:34,700 --> 00:39:34,940 and eventually create situations The merger was approved 898 00:39:34,940 --> 00:39:36,180 The merger was approved 899 00:39:36,180 --> 00:39:38,980 on the condition they wouldn't use their power 900 00:39:38,980 --> 00:39:43,300 to punish businesses which use other ticket providers. 901 00:39:44,540 --> 00:39:46,420 TOMMY DORFMAN: Back in 2010 902 00:39:46,420 --> 00:39:46,660 Live Nation promised the United States Government TOMMY DORFMAN: Back in 2010 903 00:39:46,660 --> 00:39:49,500 Live Nation promised the United States Government 904 00:39:49,500 --> 00:39:49,780 Live Nation promised the United States Government they weren't going to be doing all the bad things that they did to me. 905 00:39:49,780 --> 00:39:53,300 they weren't going to be doing all the bad things that they did to me. 906 00:39:53,300 --> 00:39:56,420 Live Nation violated, in my belief, the consent decree order 907 00:39:56,420 --> 00:39:56,660 Live Nation violated, in my belief, within a few months, 908 00:39:56,660 --> 00:39:57,660 within a few months, 909 00:39:57,660 --> 00:39:57,900 trying to block ticketing within a few months, 910 00:39:57,900 --> 00:40:00,180 trying to block ticketing and block my entire event. 911 00:40:01,140 --> 00:40:03,340 This is my trial prep room. 912 00:40:03,340 --> 00:40:06,540 Live Nation is facing several lawsuits in the US, 913 00:40:06,540 --> 00:40:09,140 including from promoter Tommy Dorfman. 914 00:40:09,140 --> 00:40:14,100 In 2011 he planned a large dance music festival in New Jersey, 915 00:40:14,100 --> 00:40:17,500 but he says Live Nation used aggressive tactics. 916 00:40:17,500 --> 00:40:22,060 They threatened to withhold ticketing for future events. 917 00:40:22,060 --> 00:40:23,860 They acted like wild animals. 918 00:40:23,860 --> 00:40:26,340 They said, "We are going to block all your ticketing. 919 00:40:26,340 --> 00:40:27,500 "You will not get ticketing. 920 00:40:27,500 --> 00:40:29,820 "We're going to block all your talent." 921 00:40:29,820 --> 00:40:30,980 Everything disappeared. 922 00:40:30,980 --> 00:40:33,460 We went from having the biggest EDM festival 923 00:40:33,460 --> 00:40:36,340 in the East Coast of the United States 924 00:40:36,340 --> 00:40:36,580 in the East Coast to nothing. 925 00:40:36,580 --> 00:40:37,660 to nothing. 926 00:40:37,660 --> 00:40:38,860 Goodbye. It was gone. 927 00:40:43,140 --> 00:40:45,060 Tommy lost his music business. 928 00:40:45,060 --> 00:40:49,500 Now he's selling cable door to door. 929 00:40:49,500 --> 00:40:50,940 Hello? Hello! How are you doing? 930 00:40:50,940 --> 00:40:52,500 Hi. I'm Tommy from RDA Enterprises 931 00:40:52,500 --> 00:40:52,740 Hi. representing Astound Broadband. 932 00:40:52,740 --> 00:40:54,260 representing Astound Broadband. 933 00:40:54,260 --> 00:40:57,500 Do you guys have internet or cable-phone internet in your house? 934 00:40:57,500 --> 00:40:59,740 He's been waiting 13 years 935 00:40:59,740 --> 00:41:02,820 for his case against Live Nation to go to trial. 936 00:41:02,820 --> 00:41:03,060 for his case against Live Nation I'm Tommy. Nice to meet you! 937 00:41:03,060 --> 00:41:04,460 I'm Tommy. Nice to meet you! 938 00:41:05,420 --> 00:41:08,820 His cause was taken up by a prominent member of Congress, 939 00:41:08,820 --> 00:41:09,060 His cause was taken up the late Bill Pascrell. 940 00:41:09,060 --> 00:41:11,300 the late Bill Pascrell. 941 00:41:12,540 --> 00:41:14,740 I do not want Live Nation's money. 942 00:41:14,740 --> 00:41:18,660 I want to take this to a jury and I want justice. 943 00:41:19,620 --> 00:41:21,940 In court filings, Live Nation denied 944 00:41:21,940 --> 00:41:22,180 many of the allegations In court filings, Live Nation denied 945 00:41:22,180 --> 00:41:25,020 many of the allegations in Tommy's case 946 00:41:25,020 --> 00:41:28,980 or said there was insufficient evidence to prove them. 947 00:41:30,020 --> 00:41:33,460 I would tell your government, "Don't listen to Live Nation. 948 00:41:33,460 --> 00:41:35,260 "Stop it now. Stop it now. 949 00:41:35,260 --> 00:41:38,180 "Protect the independent promoters, protect the artists 950 00:41:38,180 --> 00:41:41,100 "and protect the fans that are getting ripped off." 951 00:41:41,100 --> 00:41:44,940 Now Live Nation is facing its biggest battle yet. 952 00:41:44,940 --> 00:41:49,220 The US Department of Justice and dozens of American states 953 00:41:49,220 --> 00:41:49,460 The US Department of Justice are suing the company. 954 00:41:49,460 --> 00:41:51,020 are suing the company. 955 00:41:51,020 --> 00:41:51,260 We allege that Live Nation has illegally monopolised markets are suing the company. 956 00:41:51,260 --> 00:41:54,980 We allege that Live Nation has illegally monopolised markets 957 00:41:54,980 --> 00:41:57,980 across the live concert industry in the United States 958 00:41:57,980 --> 00:41:58,220 across the live concert industry in the United States for far too long. 959 00:41:58,220 --> 00:41:59,940 for far too long. 960 00:41:59,940 --> 00:42:02,740 It is time to break it up. 961 00:42:02,740 --> 00:42:05,740 In a recent interview with Bloomberg, 962 00:42:05,740 --> 00:42:07,980 Live Nation CEO, Michael Rapino, 963 00:42:07,980 --> 00:42:10,500 said he thought the US Department of Justice 964 00:42:10,500 --> 00:42:14,140 had rewritten the rules on vertical integration. 965 00:42:14,140 --> 00:42:14,420 Are we vertical? Of course we're vertical. had rewritten the rules on vertical integration. 966 00:42:14,420 --> 00:42:16,740 Are we vertical? Of course we're vertical. 967 00:42:16,740 --> 00:42:18,300 Every promoter from history has been vertical 968 00:42:18,300 --> 00:42:20,100 because that's how you pay the bills. 969 00:42:20,100 --> 00:42:20,380 because that's how you pay the bills. We have filed this lawsuit on behalf of the American people. 970 00:42:20,380 --> 00:42:25,580 We have filed this lawsuit on behalf of the American people. 971 00:42:25,580 --> 00:42:28,100 It is time for fans and artists 972 00:42:28,100 --> 00:42:32,620 to stop paying the price for Live Nation's monopoly. 973 00:42:32,620 --> 00:42:34,860 AUDIENCE: (CHANTS) Barkaa! Barkaa! 974 00:42:34,860 --> 00:42:38,940 Barkaa! Barkaa! 975 00:42:38,940 --> 00:42:42,180 Barkaa! Barkaa! Barkaa! 976 00:42:42,180 --> 00:42:43,820 Barkaa! Barkaa! 977 00:42:43,820 --> 00:42:45,940 BARKAA: What's good?! 978 00:42:45,940 --> 00:42:49,820 (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) 979 00:42:49,820 --> 00:42:52,380 I feel like, artists, this is our industry, you know? 980 00:42:52,380 --> 00:42:54,900 This is ours, you know? We're the ones that keep it rolling. 981 00:42:54,900 --> 00:42:57,460 If it wasn't for us, we wouldn't have an industry. 982 00:42:57,460 --> 00:42:58,220 (CHEERING) 983 00:42:58,220 --> 00:43:01,380 (RAPS) # Ha! So, you're gonna shoot a brother in the back 984 00:43:01,380 --> 00:43:03,900 # Ha! Black mother at her doorstep... # 985 00:43:03,900 --> 00:43:06,420 Barkaa's playing a national tour. 986 00:43:06,420 --> 00:43:08,380 Her fan base is dedicated, 987 00:43:08,380 --> 00:43:12,700 and her lyrics tell stories about her life in Australia. 988 00:43:13,900 --> 00:43:15,460 # Why my people gotta die? 989 00:43:15,460 --> 00:43:17,700 # Ain't shit changed since we've been colonised... # 990 00:43:17,700 --> 00:43:17,940 # Ain't shit changed You just see constantly 991 00:43:17,940 --> 00:43:19,260 You just see constantly 992 00:43:19,260 --> 00:43:21,500 the people who actually are out here 993 00:43:21,500 --> 00:43:21,740 putting their life experiences the people who actually are out here 994 00:43:21,740 --> 00:43:24,580 putting their life experiences on the line 995 00:43:24,580 --> 00:43:26,540 just for somebody to come in and gobble up, 996 00:43:26,540 --> 00:43:30,140 like, benefit and profit off people's pain and trauma 997 00:43:30,140 --> 00:43:30,380 like, benefit and profit and, you know, their stories. 998 00:43:30,380 --> 00:43:33,140 and, you know, their stories. 999 00:43:33,140 --> 00:43:35,420 # Ha! Hold your fists up 1000 00:43:35,420 --> 00:43:36,980 # Put 'em up! # 1001 00:43:36,980 --> 00:43:40,940 Can we just enjoy and thrive and create 1002 00:43:40,940 --> 00:43:42,220 rather than being in survival mode 1003 00:43:42,220 --> 00:43:45,140 and always having our back up about people doing us dodgy 1004 00:43:45,140 --> 00:43:47,220 or taking and ripping everything away from us? 1005 00:43:47,220 --> 00:43:50,660 And I think as artists, like, yeah, we need to take back that power, 1006 00:43:50,660 --> 00:43:51,860 we need to be more vocal, 1007 00:43:51,860 --> 00:43:54,340 write diss tracks to Live Nation, 1008 00:43:54,340 --> 00:43:56,540 like, do something, guys. 1009 00:43:56,540 --> 00:44:00,020 ('FORGOTTEN YEARS' PLAYS) 1010 00:44:09,700 --> 00:44:12,980 My advice to the Australian Government would be don't wait. 1011 00:44:12,980 --> 00:44:13,220 My advice to the Australian These companies, 1012 00:44:13,220 --> 00:44:15,100 These companies, 1013 00:44:15,100 --> 00:44:19,220 there's nothing evil or wrong about them inherently, 1014 00:44:19,220 --> 00:44:20,820 but they are avaricious. 1015 00:44:20,820 --> 00:44:22,580 And the way to curtail that 1016 00:44:22,580 --> 00:44:24,460 is to have a regulatory system 1017 00:44:24,460 --> 00:44:26,180 in which they can operate to do that 1018 00:44:26,180 --> 00:44:28,180 within certain limits and certain controls. 1019 00:44:28,180 --> 00:44:32,020 Just letting them do it without any kind of controls doesn't work. 1020 00:44:34,740 --> 00:44:37,580 # These should not be forgotten years... # 1021 00:44:37,580 --> 00:44:42,260 When all else fails, live music is supposed to bring people together. 1022 00:44:42,260 --> 00:44:42,500 When all else fails, live music # And divided years... # 1023 00:44:42,500 --> 00:44:44,020 # And divided years... # 1024 00:44:44,020 --> 00:44:47,700 The concern felt by so many in the industry 1025 00:44:47,700 --> 00:44:52,500 is that Live Nation's move to make it an expensive luxury item 1026 00:44:52,500 --> 00:44:55,420 is threatening the grass-roots traditions 1027 00:44:55,420 --> 00:44:58,620 that have made Australia's scene unique. 1028 00:44:59,940 --> 00:45:02,460 It's very disappointing they've been let into Australia. 1029 00:45:02,460 --> 00:45:05,860 It may be very difficult to, you know, unwind that. 1030 00:45:05,860 --> 00:45:06,100 It may be very difficult My personal belief is that music 1031 00:45:06,100 --> 00:45:07,540 My personal belief is that music 1032 00:45:07,540 --> 00:45:07,780 is there at all the important My personal belief is that music 1033 00:45:07,780 --> 00:45:10,940 is there at all the important moments of most of our lives... 1034 00:45:11,900 --> 00:45:14,580 ..and, unless we recognise the value of that, 1035 00:45:14,580 --> 00:45:14,820 ..and, unless we recognise it can quite quickly disappear. 1036 00:45:14,820 --> 00:45:16,700 it can quite quickly disappear. 1037 00:45:16,700 --> 00:45:18,620 What makes us human, in a way, 1038 00:45:18,620 --> 00:45:23,260 is artists sharing their sense of things, their stories 1039 00:45:23,260 --> 00:45:25,820 with the people who they've grown up with 1040 00:45:25,820 --> 00:45:26,060 with the people or who they live nearby 1041 00:45:26,060 --> 00:45:28,140 or who they live nearby 1042 00:45:28,140 --> 00:45:30,140 or who they're visiting. 1043 00:45:30,140 --> 00:45:32,620 And that's why people still go out to shows. 1044 00:45:32,620 --> 00:45:36,180 A country without its own music is a country without a soul. 1045 00:45:36,180 --> 00:45:39,900 # The blinded years The binded years 1046 00:45:39,900 --> 00:45:43,300 # The desperate and divided years 1047 00:45:44,820 --> 00:45:46,060 # These should not be 1048 00:45:46,060 --> 00:45:47,940 # Forgotten years # These should not be 1049 00:45:47,940 --> 00:45:49,460 # Forgotten years 1050 00:45:49,460 --> 00:45:51,020 # Remember! 1051 00:45:51,980 --> 00:45:53,540 # Oh, oh! 1052 00:45:54,980 --> 00:46:00,780 # Oh, we'll try. # 1053 00:46:08,780 --> 00:46:10,820 (THEME MUSIC PLAYS) 1054 00:46:26,220 --> 00:46:28,220 Captions by Red Bee Media 1055 00:46:28,220 --> 00:46:28,460 Copyright Australian Broadcasting Corporation Captions by Red Bee Media 1056 00:46:28,460 --> 00:46:30,420 Copyright Australian Broadcasting Corporation