1 00:00:00,020 --> 00:00:02,060 (THEME MUSIC PLAYS) 2 00:00:16,340 --> 00:00:19,460 If you were to choose three words that sum up social media, 3 00:00:19,460 --> 00:00:19,700 If you were to choose three words that sum up social media, what would they be? 4 00:00:19,700 --> 00:00:20,700 what would they be? 5 00:00:20,700 --> 00:00:23,660 Unnecessarily, tragically harmful. 6 00:00:23,660 --> 00:00:27,860 After 20 years of unfettered growth, 7 00:00:27,860 --> 00:00:33,540 a realisation is dawning about the true cost of social media. 8 00:00:33,540 --> 00:00:36,260 I don't think Instagram wants to kill kids. 9 00:00:36,260 --> 00:00:38,540 I think Instagram wants to make a ton of money, 10 00:00:38,540 --> 00:00:41,620 and they don't care if they happen to kill some kids along the way. 11 00:00:42,580 --> 00:00:44,380 This social experiment 12 00:00:44,380 --> 00:00:48,300 has had the most profound consequences for young people. 13 00:00:48,300 --> 00:00:51,940 LORI SCHOTT: We let a stranger into our house every night 14 00:00:51,940 --> 00:00:54,660 that does the most horrific things 15 00:00:54,660 --> 00:00:57,140 and can manipulate a child's mind. 16 00:00:58,380 --> 00:01:00,620 ARTURO BEJAR: This is an urgent crisis. 17 00:01:00,620 --> 00:01:03,820 Millions of teens are having their mental health compromised. 18 00:01:04,780 --> 00:01:08,420 I think Mark is responsible for what happened to these kids. 19 00:01:08,420 --> 00:01:12,500 Would you like to apologise for what you've done to these good people? 20 00:01:12,500 --> 00:01:13,260 FAITH MURPHY: Fix it. 21 00:01:13,260 --> 00:01:19,060 Your algorithms are targeting the mentally unwell and children. 22 00:01:19,060 --> 00:01:23,660 Those algorithms are also spreading disinformation. 23 00:01:23,660 --> 00:01:23,900 Those algorithms (INDISTINCT CHANTING) 24 00:01:23,900 --> 00:01:25,260 (INDISTINCT CHANTING) 25 00:01:25,260 --> 00:01:27,740 On the eve of an American election, 26 00:01:27,740 --> 00:01:30,500 democracy is under threat. 27 00:01:30,500 --> 00:01:33,380 Insiders are sounding the alarm. 28 00:01:33,380 --> 00:01:33,620 EDWARD PEREZ: It's a feeling Insiders are sounding the alarm. 29 00:01:33,620 --> 00:01:35,860 EDWARD PEREZ: It's a feeling like you are in a car 30 00:01:35,860 --> 00:01:39,660 hurtling toward a brick wall or some danger that you know is coming. 31 00:01:41,820 --> 00:01:46,100 Online anger is spilling onto the streets. 32 00:01:46,100 --> 00:01:48,780 These were our first social-media riots. 33 00:01:49,740 --> 00:01:54,780 Inside these vast, soulless business parks of Silicon Valley 34 00:01:54,780 --> 00:01:57,580 they're shaping the way the rest of us live. 35 00:01:57,580 --> 00:02:00,100 But it's not all likes and cat videos. 36 00:02:00,100 --> 00:02:02,740 Around the world momentum is building 37 00:02:02,740 --> 00:02:03,020 to finally hold social-media companies to account. Around the world momentum is building 38 00:02:03,020 --> 00:02:06,940 to finally hold social-media companies to account. 39 00:02:06,940 --> 00:02:07,180 to finally hold In this episode of Four Corners 40 00:02:07,180 --> 00:02:09,100 In this episode of Four Corners 41 00:02:09,100 --> 00:02:09,340 In this episode of Four Corners we speak to some of the key players in the fight to make that happen. 42 00:02:09,340 --> 00:02:14,420 we speak to some of the key players in the fight to make that happen. 43 00:02:25,260 --> 00:02:29,340 (BIRD SQUALLS) 44 00:02:31,340 --> 00:02:38,860 (SOFT PRAYER ON LOUDSPEAKER) 45 00:02:40,140 --> 00:02:42,700 It's early morning at a mosque 46 00:02:42,700 --> 00:02:42,940 in the Merseyside town of Southport It's early morning at a mosque 47 00:02:42,940 --> 00:02:47,780 in the Merseyside town of Southport in England's North West. 48 00:02:50,220 --> 00:02:54,860 Don't attack other people for no reason. 49 00:02:54,860 --> 00:03:00,460 Don't harm the community that you're living in. 50 00:03:00,460 --> 00:03:01,220 Don't harm... 51 00:03:01,220 --> 00:03:03,300 We've come to visit this community 52 00:03:03,300 --> 00:03:06,580 as it recovers from a frightening attack. 53 00:03:13,100 --> 00:03:14,100 Allah! Allah! 54 00:03:14,100 --> 00:03:15,780 Who the fuck is Allah?! 55 00:03:15,780 --> 00:03:15,980 Who the fuck is Allah?! In July 56 00:03:15,980 --> 00:03:17,260 In July 57 00:03:17,260 --> 00:03:19,620 Southport imam, Ibrahim Hussein, 58 00:03:19,620 --> 00:03:22,220 was here with seven other worshippers 59 00:03:22,220 --> 00:03:24,100 when a mob descended. 60 00:03:30,340 --> 00:03:32,540 (LAUGHTER) 61 00:03:32,540 --> 00:03:36,500 (INDISTINCT YELLING) 62 00:03:36,500 --> 00:03:38,980 IBRAHIM HUSSEIN: We are no match to them. 63 00:03:38,980 --> 00:03:41,740 We're feeling intimidated, frightened. 64 00:03:41,740 --> 00:03:43,180 (INDISTINCT YELLING) 65 00:03:43,180 --> 00:03:46,500 And then, of course, they got vocal, they got louder. 66 00:03:46,500 --> 00:03:46,740 And then, of course, they got vocal, (INDISTINCT YELLING) 67 00:03:46,740 --> 00:03:50,060 (INDISTINCT YELLING) 68 00:03:51,020 --> 00:03:55,900 The imam and his men barricaded themselves inside. 69 00:03:55,900 --> 00:03:56,140 The imam and his men We went to watch the CCTV 70 00:03:56,140 --> 00:03:59,420 We went to watch the CCTV 71 00:03:59,420 --> 00:04:01,860 and then very soon we discovered 72 00:04:01,860 --> 00:04:02,100 that the smoke and the fire and then very soon we discovered 73 00:04:02,100 --> 00:04:05,540 that the smoke and the fire has been thrown at the window 74 00:04:05,540 --> 00:04:05,780 that the smoke and the fire and all the smoke is coming inside. 75 00:04:05,780 --> 00:04:08,340 and all the smoke is coming inside. 76 00:04:08,340 --> 00:04:11,100 If we didn't die in the hands of the mob, 77 00:04:11,100 --> 00:04:14,460 we definitely going to suffocate with the smoke. 78 00:04:14,460 --> 00:04:14,740 There is young lads that were here that have got young families, we definitely going to suffocate with the smoke. 79 00:04:14,740 --> 00:04:18,060 There is young lads that were here that have got young families, 80 00:04:18,060 --> 00:04:20,860 and they think they're not going to see them again. 81 00:04:20,860 --> 00:04:21,140 and they think they're not going to see them again. They thought they were going to die? Yeah. 82 00:04:21,140 --> 00:04:22,740 They thought they were going to die? Yeah. 83 00:04:23,700 --> 00:04:27,340 Outside the chaos escalated. 84 00:04:27,340 --> 00:04:30,340 It looks like we were in a war zone. 85 00:04:30,340 --> 00:04:32,220 Because of a lie on social media? 86 00:04:32,220 --> 00:04:33,220 Because of a lie. 87 00:04:33,220 --> 00:04:33,460 Is social media to blame Because of a lie. 88 00:04:33,460 --> 00:04:37,460 Is social media to blame for what happened at your mosque? 89 00:04:37,460 --> 00:04:37,700 Is social media to blame Most definitely. 90 00:04:37,700 --> 00:04:38,620 Most definitely. 91 00:04:41,940 --> 00:04:44,780 The attack on the Southport Mosque 92 00:04:44,780 --> 00:04:49,620 was the culmination of a concerted disinformation campaign. 93 00:04:49,620 --> 00:04:54,660 It began after three little girls were stabbed in Southport 94 00:04:54,660 --> 00:04:54,900 It began after three little girls at a Taylor Swift dance class. 95 00:04:54,900 --> 00:04:57,140 at a Taylor Swift dance class. 96 00:04:57,140 --> 00:04:57,380 VOICEOVER: Three children who were at a Taylor Swift dance class. 97 00:04:57,380 --> 00:05:01,060 VOICEOVER: Three children who were just dancing, and now they're gone. 98 00:05:01,060 --> 00:05:03,140 REPORTER: The Home Secretary had earlier warned 99 00:05:03,140 --> 00:05:05,660 about disinformation linked to the attack. 100 00:05:07,220 --> 00:05:11,140 Social media didn't create the racial tensions in Britain, 101 00:05:11,140 --> 00:05:16,260 but it's given extremists a powerful tool to spread hate. 102 00:05:17,220 --> 00:05:22,620 Nazir Afzal is a former chief prosecutor for North West England. 103 00:05:22,620 --> 00:05:24,420 He brought to justice 104 00:05:24,420 --> 00:05:27,860 the perpetrators of violent protests in the past, 105 00:05:27,860 --> 00:05:28,100 the perpetrators of violent protests but he's seen nothing like this. 106 00:05:28,100 --> 00:05:30,060 but he's seen nothing like this. 107 00:05:31,420 --> 00:05:34,820 NAZIR AFZAL: There was an enormous amount of comment on social media 108 00:05:34,820 --> 00:05:37,460 as to the identification of the perpetrator. 109 00:05:37,460 --> 00:05:37,700 as to the identification "This person's a Muslim," 110 00:05:37,700 --> 00:05:38,980 "This person's a Muslim," 111 00:05:38,980 --> 00:05:42,060 "This person's an asylum seeker," 112 00:05:42,060 --> 00:05:43,580 language of that nature, 113 00:05:43,580 --> 00:05:46,220 which was wrong in all respects. 114 00:05:46,220 --> 00:05:49,780 You know, disinformation is not freedom of speech, it's lying, 115 00:05:49,780 --> 00:05:51,700 and openly lying 116 00:05:51,700 --> 00:05:55,420 in order to encourage people to do something nefarious. 117 00:05:55,420 --> 00:06:00,180 In fact, the alleged perpetrator, who was ultimately arrested, 118 00:06:00,180 --> 00:06:04,740 was born in Britain to a Christian family. 119 00:06:04,740 --> 00:06:08,260 Everybody forgot the three little girls that had been murdered. 120 00:06:08,260 --> 00:06:08,500 You know, it really shocks me. Everybody forgot the three little girls that had been murdered. 121 00:06:08,500 --> 00:06:09,740 You know, it really shocks me. 122 00:06:09,740 --> 00:06:13,260 That was their motivation, allegedly. 123 00:06:13,260 --> 00:06:13,500 That was their motivation, allegedly. But they didn't care. 124 00:06:13,500 --> 00:06:14,580 But they didn't care. 125 00:06:14,580 --> 00:06:17,980 It literally was simply an attack on black and brown people 126 00:06:17,980 --> 00:06:18,220 It literally was simply an attack in this country 127 00:06:18,220 --> 00:06:19,460 in this country 128 00:06:19,460 --> 00:06:21,620 because they were black and brown. 129 00:06:21,620 --> 00:06:23,420 What I DO know 130 00:06:23,420 --> 00:06:27,700 is something is going horribly wrong in our once beautiful country. 131 00:06:27,700 --> 00:06:27,940 is something is going horribly wrong Missile! 132 00:06:27,940 --> 00:06:28,940 Missile! 133 00:06:30,260 --> 00:06:35,980 It was the worst civil unrest in the UK in more than a decade. 134 00:06:45,700 --> 00:06:48,460 These were our first social-media riots. 135 00:06:48,460 --> 00:06:48,700 These were our first (INDISTINCT YELLING) 136 00:06:48,700 --> 00:06:50,140 (INDISTINCT YELLING) 137 00:06:50,140 --> 00:06:50,380 People were using social media (INDISTINCT YELLING) 138 00:06:50,380 --> 00:06:52,100 People were using social media to create fear. 139 00:06:54,540 --> 00:06:58,300 The disinformation about the attacker's identity 140 00:06:58,300 --> 00:07:04,220 had spread after a series of posts on X, formerly known as Twitter. 141 00:07:04,220 --> 00:07:08,780 The posts were amplified by notorious influencers 142 00:07:08,780 --> 00:07:10,620 linked to the far-right, 143 00:07:10,620 --> 00:07:12,580 people like Andrew Tate. 144 00:07:13,540 --> 00:07:15,500 So, an undocumented migrant 145 00:07:15,500 --> 00:07:19,620 decided to go into a Taylor Swift dance class today. 146 00:07:19,620 --> 00:07:23,500 That's right, somebody arrived in the UK on a boat... 147 00:07:23,500 --> 00:07:23,780 Shadowy extremist accounts on Telegram and others on X That's right, somebody arrived in the UK on a boat... 148 00:07:23,780 --> 00:07:28,700 Shadowy extremist accounts on Telegram and others on X 149 00:07:28,700 --> 00:07:31,620 with hundreds of thousands of followers 150 00:07:31,620 --> 00:07:31,860 pushed the narrative further. of followers 151 00:07:31,860 --> 00:07:34,380 pushed the narrative further. 152 00:07:34,380 --> 00:07:37,540 X owner, Elon Musk, weighed in, 153 00:07:37,540 --> 00:07:37,780 X owner, Elon Musk, weighed in, to the anti-immigration account 154 00:07:37,780 --> 00:07:41,340 responding directly to the anti-immigration account 155 00:07:41,340 --> 00:07:41,580 Europe Invasion. to the anti-immigration account 156 00:07:41,580 --> 00:07:43,820 Europe Invasion. 157 00:07:43,820 --> 00:07:46,100 JOE MULHALL: The idea that Musk would allow 158 00:07:46,100 --> 00:07:47,540 an account like that on the platform 159 00:07:47,540 --> 00:07:49,940 is a major problem in and of itself. 160 00:07:49,940 --> 00:07:51,500 Musk, the owner of the platform, 161 00:07:51,500 --> 00:07:55,580 was amplifying a voice that was an extremely dangerous voice 162 00:07:55,580 --> 00:07:56,820 that contributed to the violence 163 00:07:56,820 --> 00:07:57,060 that contributed to the violence we saw in the streets over the coming days. 164 00:07:57,060 --> 00:07:58,900 we saw in the streets over the coming days. 165 00:07:59,860 --> 00:08:02,940 Things really just started in Southport, but it... 166 00:08:02,940 --> 00:08:05,580 Joe Mulhall monitors the extreme right 167 00:08:05,580 --> 00:08:10,180 for anti-racism advocacy group Hope Not Hate. 168 00:08:11,260 --> 00:08:14,420 So, you'd get some people putting it on X like this, 169 00:08:14,420 --> 00:08:16,980 but you'd also get live streaming happening on TikTok. 170 00:08:16,980 --> 00:08:22,420 He was aghast to see Elon Musk post during the riots 171 00:08:22,420 --> 00:08:26,300 to his more than 200 million followers 172 00:08:26,300 --> 00:08:29,420 that "Civil war is inevitable." 173 00:08:29,420 --> 00:08:32,740 What happened in the days following that attack in Southport 174 00:08:32,740 --> 00:08:36,260 had disastrous effects on our streets and in our communities, 175 00:08:36,260 --> 00:08:37,940 and it wasn't Musk putting his hands up 176 00:08:37,940 --> 00:08:39,100 and saying, "This is free speech." 177 00:08:39,100 --> 00:08:41,500 He was engaging in it himself. 178 00:08:42,780 --> 00:08:44,580 Some of the biggest players 179 00:08:44,580 --> 00:08:44,820 spreading misinformation, Some of the biggest players 180 00:08:44,820 --> 00:08:47,580 spreading misinformation, disinformation and hatred 181 00:08:47,580 --> 00:08:50,340 in the period running up to and during the riots 182 00:08:50,340 --> 00:08:53,660 were individuals that had previously been removed from Twitter 183 00:08:53,660 --> 00:08:56,180 but Elon Musk allowed back onto the platform. 184 00:08:57,540 --> 00:08:59,780 As a social-media riot, 185 00:08:59,780 --> 00:09:01,780 we're going to have to look back at this 186 00:09:01,780 --> 00:09:03,780 and see what we can learn from this. 187 00:09:03,780 --> 00:09:05,980 Platforms themselves, social-media platforms, 188 00:09:05,980 --> 00:09:06,220 Platforms themselves, have a responsibility, 189 00:09:06,220 --> 00:09:08,460 have a responsibility, 190 00:09:08,460 --> 00:09:11,380 and we didn't see it being exercised. 191 00:09:11,380 --> 00:09:13,660 You say these were the first social-media riots. 192 00:09:13,660 --> 00:09:13,900 You say these were the first Will they be the last? 193 00:09:13,900 --> 00:09:15,060 Will they be the last? 194 00:09:15,060 --> 00:09:17,620 I have no doubt that there will be other social-media riots. 195 00:09:19,460 --> 00:09:23,180 To understand why Britain erupted in this way, 196 00:09:23,180 --> 00:09:26,340 it's instructive to meet a far-right figure, 197 00:09:26,340 --> 00:09:30,020 like Patriotic Alternative's Mark Collett. 198 00:09:30,980 --> 00:09:36,660 Mr Collett uses social media to disseminate his xenophobic agenda. 199 00:09:37,620 --> 00:09:40,020 His anti-immigration rhetoric 200 00:09:40,020 --> 00:09:40,260 has seen him banned His anti-immigration rhetoric 201 00:09:40,260 --> 00:09:43,420 has seen him banned from Facebook and X, 202 00:09:43,420 --> 00:09:47,780 but he supports where Elon Musk is taking social media. 203 00:09:47,780 --> 00:09:48,020 but he supports where Elon Musk MARK COLLETT: I think social media 204 00:09:48,020 --> 00:09:49,380 MARK COLLETT: I think social media 205 00:09:49,380 --> 00:09:49,580 IS important. MARK COLLETT: I think social media 206 00:09:49,580 --> 00:09:51,180 IS important. 207 00:09:51,180 --> 00:09:52,740 It does give you a greater reach. 208 00:09:52,740 --> 00:09:55,780 And since Elon Musk has taken over on Twitter 209 00:09:55,780 --> 00:09:56,060 And since Elon Musk has taken over on Twitter there have been smaller accounts that have grown very large, 210 00:09:56,060 --> 00:10:00,700 there have been smaller accounts that have grown very large, 211 00:10:00,700 --> 00:10:00,940 there have been smaller accounts and they are saying things 212 00:10:00,940 --> 00:10:02,420 and they are saying things 213 00:10:02,420 --> 00:10:02,660 that under and they are saying things 214 00:10:02,660 --> 00:10:04,180 that under the old Twitter establishment 215 00:10:04,180 --> 00:10:05,700 they wouldn't have been allowed to say, 216 00:10:05,700 --> 00:10:05,940 they wouldn't have been allowed and I think that's something 217 00:10:05,940 --> 00:10:07,180 and I think that's something 218 00:10:07,180 --> 00:10:09,500 that the British government is very scared about 219 00:10:09,500 --> 00:10:11,260 because they want to do something 220 00:10:11,260 --> 00:10:16,140 to curtail Elon Musk's drive for free speech. 221 00:10:18,420 --> 00:10:21,300 As the Southport riots broke out, 222 00:10:21,300 --> 00:10:24,820 Mark Collett took to social media. 223 00:10:24,820 --> 00:10:29,620 He linked the attacks on the little girls to immigration, 224 00:10:29,620 --> 00:10:29,860 He linked the attacks telling his followers: 225 00:10:29,860 --> 00:10:32,900 telling his followers: 226 00:10:38,620 --> 00:10:41,260 That was a false claim. 227 00:10:41,260 --> 00:10:44,020 He also wrote: 228 00:10:52,060 --> 00:10:53,540 So, you stand by those words? 229 00:10:53,540 --> 00:10:54,540 Oh, of course. 230 00:10:54,540 --> 00:10:57,660 I mean, I'm not blaming the immigrant community here. 231 00:10:57,660 --> 00:10:59,340 People are saying, "We've had enough, 232 00:10:59,340 --> 00:11:00,540 "we've had enough, we've had enough." 233 00:11:00,540 --> 00:11:02,020 Another thing that you've said in the past 234 00:11:02,020 --> 00:11:04,780 is "Diversity is a hate crime against white people." 235 00:11:04,780 --> 00:11:07,900 Did I specifically say that? You were quoted as saying that. 236 00:11:07,900 --> 00:11:09,460 Do you... I mean, it's a reasonable quote. 237 00:11:09,460 --> 00:11:09,700 Do you... I mean, I'll take it if you want. 238 00:11:09,700 --> 00:11:12,060 I mean, I'll take it if you want. 239 00:11:12,060 --> 00:11:16,340 Diversity is something that is bad for white people 240 00:11:16,340 --> 00:11:20,140 because every time somebody says, "This has become more diverse," 241 00:11:20,140 --> 00:11:21,620 it means fewer white people. 242 00:11:21,620 --> 00:11:21,860 This is a predominantly white country it means fewer white people. 243 00:11:21,860 --> 00:11:24,140 This is a predominantly white country 244 00:11:24,140 --> 00:11:26,380 with predominantly white institutions, 245 00:11:26,380 --> 00:11:29,300 with enormous amounts of institutional racism 246 00:11:29,300 --> 00:11:29,540 with enormous amounts of institutional racism in our system. 247 00:11:29,540 --> 00:11:30,940 in our system. 248 00:11:30,940 --> 00:11:35,460 So, the idea that somehow this is against him and his people 249 00:11:35,460 --> 00:11:37,100 is...it's just nonsense. 250 00:11:38,060 --> 00:11:41,300 At Southport there was someone there wearing a T-shirt 251 00:11:41,300 --> 00:11:43,380 that was very clearly linked to Patriotic Alternative. 252 00:11:43,380 --> 00:11:43,620 that was very clearly linked So, that's a dead giveaway. 253 00:11:43,620 --> 00:11:45,500 So, that's a dead giveaway. 254 00:11:45,500 --> 00:11:46,860 Hope Not Hate 255 00:11:46,860 --> 00:11:52,580 discovered Patriotic Alternative figures attended the Southport riots. 256 00:11:52,580 --> 00:11:55,500 We've proved by analysing footage of the riots 257 00:11:55,500 --> 00:11:55,780 that individuals linked to Patriotic Alternative, We've proved by analysing footage of the riots 258 00:11:55,780 --> 00:11:58,100 that individuals linked to Patriotic Alternative, 259 00:11:58,100 --> 00:12:00,780 that have been active with Patriotic Alternative, 260 00:12:00,780 --> 00:12:02,580 engaged in the violence on those days, 261 00:12:02,580 --> 00:12:02,820 engaged in the violence on those days, that were present at those riots. 262 00:12:02,820 --> 00:12:04,820 that were present at those riots. 263 00:12:04,820 --> 00:12:06,860 And that comes as no surprise. 264 00:12:06,860 --> 00:12:09,340 Mark Collett paints himself 265 00:12:09,340 --> 00:12:11,740 as an advocate for, as he puts it, 266 00:12:11,740 --> 00:12:14,820 the 'indigenous white people' of Britain. 267 00:12:14,820 --> 00:12:15,060 the 'indigenous white people' But his views are far more sinister. 268 00:12:15,060 --> 00:12:17,740 But his views are far more sinister. 269 00:12:17,740 --> 00:12:17,980 So, you still think But his views are far more sinister. 270 00:12:17,980 --> 00:12:20,860 So, you still think that Hitler wasn't such a bad guy? 271 00:12:20,860 --> 00:12:21,100 So, you still think I don't know him, I never met him, 272 00:12:21,100 --> 00:12:23,380 I don't know him, I never met him, 273 00:12:23,380 --> 00:12:26,500 so, I don't have firsthand experience. 274 00:12:26,500 --> 00:12:29,820 He did order the extermination of six million Jews. 275 00:12:29,820 --> 00:12:30,060 He did order the extermination Did he? 276 00:12:30,060 --> 00:12:31,340 Did he? 277 00:12:31,340 --> 00:12:32,940 You don't think he did? 278 00:12:32,940 --> 00:12:37,180 I don't know. I mean, I think it's an interesting question to ask. 279 00:12:40,460 --> 00:12:44,420 Holocaust denial is not just historically inaccurate, 280 00:12:44,420 --> 00:12:44,660 Holocaust denial is not it's deeply hurtful. 281 00:12:44,660 --> 00:12:47,260 it's deeply hurtful. 282 00:12:47,260 --> 00:12:51,260 We've grappled with whether to include these comments at all. 283 00:12:53,420 --> 00:12:56,180 Joe Mulhall believes it's important 284 00:12:56,180 --> 00:13:02,300 to never sanitise the darkest beliefs of these far-right figures. 285 00:13:04,500 --> 00:13:07,860 Mark Collett is a long-standing Holocaust denier. 286 00:13:07,860 --> 00:13:08,100 Mark Collett is a long-standing He has done for many years. 287 00:13:08,100 --> 00:13:09,460 He has done for many years. 288 00:13:09,460 --> 00:13:11,940 He's an extraordinarily extreme figure. 289 00:13:11,940 --> 00:13:15,340 He might present himself sometimes as a moderate figure, 290 00:13:15,340 --> 00:13:15,580 He might present himself sometimes but there is so much evidence 291 00:13:15,580 --> 00:13:17,260 but there is so much evidence 292 00:13:17,260 --> 00:13:19,900 about just how extreme and how pro-Nazi 293 00:13:19,900 --> 00:13:20,140 about just how extreme he actually is. 294 00:13:20,140 --> 00:13:21,700 he actually is. 295 00:13:22,660 --> 00:13:25,180 This anti-immigration rhetoric 296 00:13:25,180 --> 00:13:27,780 has had serious consequences 297 00:13:27,780 --> 00:13:30,580 for families like Naveed Mukhtar's. 298 00:13:31,540 --> 00:13:34,460 Never imagined in my life that that day will come 299 00:13:34,460 --> 00:13:34,700 Never imagined in my life when I will have to leave my home. 300 00:13:34,700 --> 00:13:36,300 when I will have to leave my home. 301 00:13:38,300 --> 00:13:40,860 Mr Mukhtar is a migration lawyer 302 00:13:40,860 --> 00:13:43,980 and he runs his business out of his family home. 303 00:13:43,980 --> 00:13:44,220 and he runs his business (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 304 00:13:44,220 --> 00:13:46,020 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 305 00:13:46,020 --> 00:13:47,300 During the riots 306 00:13:47,300 --> 00:13:49,380 his business was named on a list 307 00:13:49,380 --> 00:13:53,020 shared on the social-media platform Telegram, 308 00:13:53,020 --> 00:13:56,420 forcing the family to leave their home. 309 00:13:59,260 --> 00:14:02,260 There was racist people. 310 00:14:03,700 --> 00:14:05,700 What do you know about racism? 311 00:14:06,660 --> 00:14:09,900 That they're... 312 00:14:09,900 --> 00:14:16,020 ..not respecting other people's religions and faith. 313 00:14:16,980 --> 00:14:19,220 And how do you feel about that? 314 00:14:21,220 --> 00:14:23,940 Offended and angry. 315 00:14:23,940 --> 00:14:24,180 Do you feel safe Offended and angry. 316 00:14:24,180 --> 00:14:26,420 Do you feel safe when you go outside? 317 00:14:26,420 --> 00:14:28,660 Are you able to go outside now? 318 00:14:28,660 --> 00:14:30,260 Not much. 319 00:14:30,260 --> 00:14:33,820 I still have the fear that something is going to happen 320 00:14:33,820 --> 00:14:35,860 because these people can just do anything. 321 00:14:35,860 --> 00:14:36,100 because these people They have so many people with them. 322 00:14:36,100 --> 00:14:38,100 They have so many people with them. 323 00:14:39,620 --> 00:14:42,940 The family lives in Stoke-on-Trent, 324 00:14:42,940 --> 00:14:45,220 just over an hour from Southport. 325 00:14:45,220 --> 00:14:48,580 Mr Mukhtar says, since the riots, 326 00:14:48,580 --> 00:14:54,460 the already simmering racial tensions in this area have worsened. 327 00:14:54,460 --> 00:14:58,140 Since these riots started in the country, 328 00:14:58,140 --> 00:15:01,300 racism has increased multiple times. 329 00:15:01,300 --> 00:15:01,540 We can't leave our home thinking that we are safe, racism has increased multiple times. 330 00:15:01,540 --> 00:15:04,980 We can't leave our home thinking that we are safe, 331 00:15:04,980 --> 00:15:05,260 and I reported to the police many times and to the local city council, We can't leave our home thinking that we are safe, 332 00:15:05,260 --> 00:15:09,220 and I reported to the police many times and to the local city council, 333 00:15:09,220 --> 00:15:12,500 but, unfortunately, haven't received any help at all. 334 00:15:13,620 --> 00:15:17,660 My children cannot go and play in the street anymore. 335 00:15:17,660 --> 00:15:17,900 My children cannot go We are just living in a cage. 336 00:15:17,900 --> 00:15:20,780 We are just living in a cage. 337 00:15:20,780 --> 00:15:21,020 That hate which has been spread We are just living in a cage. 338 00:15:21,020 --> 00:15:24,220 That hate which has been spread in the whole country 339 00:15:24,220 --> 00:15:24,460 That hate which has been spread is affecting families like us 340 00:15:24,460 --> 00:15:25,980 is affecting families like us 341 00:15:25,980 --> 00:15:28,100 who just want to work. 342 00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:31,140 What would you say to social-media proprietors, 343 00:15:31,140 --> 00:15:33,020 you know, the likes of Elon Musk? 344 00:15:33,020 --> 00:15:36,660 If you want to make profits, take more responsibility. 345 00:15:37,620 --> 00:15:39,500 JOE MULHALL: The social media 346 00:15:39,500 --> 00:15:39,740 are fundamentally culpable JOE MULHALL: The social media 347 00:15:39,740 --> 00:15:42,460 are fundamentally culpable for what's happening. 348 00:15:43,620 --> 00:15:47,420 These are vast international companies with huge resources, 349 00:15:47,420 --> 00:15:48,500 and as yet 350 00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:48,740 they refuse to, or they are doing it too slowly, and as yet 351 00:15:48,740 --> 00:15:50,620 they refuse to, or they are doing it too slowly, 352 00:15:50,620 --> 00:15:52,660 to deal with the issues on these platforms 353 00:15:52,660 --> 00:15:55,660 that are having real-world effects on people on our streets. 354 00:16:03,140 --> 00:16:05,860 Andrew Kaung saw this up close 355 00:16:05,860 --> 00:16:11,540 when he worked as a planning analyst for the social-media company TikTok. 356 00:16:11,540 --> 00:16:14,780 ANDREW KAUNG: I have seen so many videos, 357 00:16:14,780 --> 00:16:17,900 people dying, people, you know, committing suicide, 358 00:16:17,900 --> 00:16:18,140 people dying, people, you know, people getting beheaded 359 00:16:18,140 --> 00:16:20,100 people getting beheaded 360 00:16:20,100 --> 00:16:20,340 on a platform that is targeted towards younger generation people getting beheaded 361 00:16:20,340 --> 00:16:22,860 on a platform that is targeted towards younger generation 362 00:16:22,860 --> 00:16:23,100 on a platform that is targeted and younger people. 363 00:16:23,100 --> 00:16:25,140 and younger people. 364 00:16:25,140 --> 00:16:26,820 It's horrible. 365 00:16:26,820 --> 00:16:27,020 Go away! We don't want you here! It's horrible. 366 00:16:27,020 --> 00:16:30,220 Go away! We don't want you here! 367 00:16:30,220 --> 00:16:30,420 Go away! We don't want you here! "We are far too soft." 368 00:16:30,420 --> 00:16:32,020 "We are far too soft." 369 00:16:32,020 --> 00:16:32,260 Pakistan! "We are far too soft." 370 00:16:32,260 --> 00:16:33,740 Pakistan! (INDISTINCT CHANT) 371 00:16:33,740 --> 00:16:38,340 TikTok says it has strict controls for those under 18. 372 00:16:38,340 --> 00:16:43,420 We set up an account for an adult male TikTok user 373 00:16:43,420 --> 00:16:47,460 and entered the search term 'immigration UK' 374 00:16:47,460 --> 00:16:49,700 to see where the algorithm took us. 375 00:16:49,700 --> 00:16:51,620 They make all these mosques and... 376 00:16:51,620 --> 00:16:56,700 Within minutes the suggested content turned xenophobic and dark. 377 00:16:56,700 --> 00:16:56,940 "Do Muslims have to pay council tax?" turned xenophobic and dark. 378 00:16:56,940 --> 00:16:59,820 "Do Muslims have to pay council tax?" 379 00:16:59,820 --> 00:17:01,140 Congress are going to be Muslims. 380 00:17:01,140 --> 00:17:03,700 Soon England won't be England, it will be Islam. 381 00:17:06,260 --> 00:17:08,220 The more time you spend on it, 382 00:17:08,220 --> 00:17:08,460 you're going to go down further The more time you spend on it, 383 00:17:08,460 --> 00:17:10,860 you're going to go down further into the rabbit hole. 384 00:17:10,860 --> 00:17:16,700 That's kind of how they keep you addicted, you know, entertained. 385 00:17:16,700 --> 00:17:20,580 CHOIR: (SINGS) # There is a name I love to hear 386 00:17:20,580 --> 00:17:24,980 # I love to sing its worth 387 00:17:24,980 --> 00:17:28,620 # It sounds like music in my ear 388 00:17:28,620 --> 00:17:32,340 # The sweetest name on earth... # 389 00:17:32,340 --> 00:17:36,460 Thousands of kilometres across the North Atlantic, 390 00:17:36,460 --> 00:17:40,740 the United States is on the cusp of an election 391 00:17:40,740 --> 00:17:45,940 where social media is more pivotal than ever before. 392 00:17:48,620 --> 00:17:51,260 One of the biggest challenges that I face 393 00:17:51,260 --> 00:17:52,420 is mis- and disinformation. 394 00:17:52,420 --> 00:17:52,620 Joe taught me rule number one - is mis- and disinformation. 395 00:17:52,620 --> 00:17:54,500 Joe taught me rule number one - 396 00:17:54,500 --> 00:17:56,980 carefully hide your total incompetence. 397 00:18:03,620 --> 00:18:07,300 We tracked down the tech company insiders 398 00:18:07,300 --> 00:18:11,260 once responsible for managing this minefield, 399 00:18:11,260 --> 00:18:15,140 and they believe social-media disinformation 400 00:18:15,140 --> 00:18:19,980 is tearing at the very heart of American democracy. 401 00:18:19,980 --> 00:18:21,900 EDWARD PEREZ: My name is Edward Perez. 402 00:18:21,900 --> 00:18:22,140 EDWARD PEREZ: Most people call me Eddie. 403 00:18:22,140 --> 00:18:23,700 Most people call me Eddie. 404 00:18:23,700 --> 00:18:28,220 I used to be the director of product management for information integrity 405 00:18:28,220 --> 00:18:29,580 at Twitter. 406 00:18:29,580 --> 00:18:31,700 I don't think it's an exaggeration at all 407 00:18:31,700 --> 00:18:36,540 to say that this is potentially the most important election in the US, 408 00:18:36,540 --> 00:18:39,980 certainly since our civil war last century. 409 00:18:39,980 --> 00:18:43,420 It's a feeling like you are in a car hurtling toward a brick wall 410 00:18:43,420 --> 00:18:46,460 or some danger that you know is coming, 411 00:18:46,460 --> 00:18:49,300 and there's not a lot that can be done to stop it. 412 00:18:49,300 --> 00:18:52,300 (SIREN WAILS) (DUCK QUACKS) 413 00:18:53,260 --> 00:18:54,580 At Twitter 414 00:18:54,580 --> 00:18:59,580 Eddie Perez led the team tasked with tackling false information 415 00:18:59,580 --> 00:19:01,620 on politics and public health 416 00:19:01,620 --> 00:19:04,940 and monitoring extremism. 417 00:19:04,940 --> 00:19:07,340 He left in 2022, 418 00:19:07,340 --> 00:19:12,940 just before Elon Musk took over and slashed thousands of jobs. 419 00:19:14,220 --> 00:19:18,180 This is now a company that, instead of having roughly 8,000 people, 420 00:19:18,180 --> 00:19:18,420 This is now a company that, instead it has approximately 2,000, I think. 421 00:19:18,420 --> 00:19:20,940 it has approximately 2,000, I think. 422 00:19:20,940 --> 00:19:24,060 So, there's a tremendous amount of institutional knowledge 423 00:19:24,060 --> 00:19:25,020 that has been lost. 424 00:19:25,020 --> 00:19:28,380 In terms of infrastructure and elections in particular, 425 00:19:28,380 --> 00:19:33,260 even the attempt to try to achieve accuracy of information, 426 00:19:33,260 --> 00:19:33,500 even the attempt to try those standards are now gone. 427 00:19:33,500 --> 00:19:35,420 those standards are now gone. 428 00:19:35,420 --> 00:19:35,660 The attempt to balance freedom of speech those standards are now gone. 429 00:19:35,660 --> 00:19:38,260 The attempt to balance freedom of speech 430 00:19:38,260 --> 00:19:41,140 with quality of information and reduction of harm 431 00:19:41,140 --> 00:19:43,740 was a very, very serious part of our mission. 432 00:19:43,740 --> 00:19:44,020 was a very, very serious part of our mission. And in its place Twitter today is... 433 00:19:44,020 --> 00:19:47,180 And in its place Twitter today is... 434 00:19:47,180 --> 00:19:50,980 ..the most generous thing you can say is a wild, wild west. 435 00:19:50,980 --> 00:19:53,500 FRANCES HAUGEN: They know they do far too little about it... 436 00:19:53,500 --> 00:19:57,540 The concerns about democracy aren't confined to X. 437 00:19:57,540 --> 00:20:00,460 Facebook is a company that has paid for its immense profits 438 00:20:00,460 --> 00:20:00,700 Facebook is a company that has paid with our safety. 439 00:20:00,700 --> 00:20:01,940 with our safety. 440 00:20:01,940 --> 00:20:06,820 Frances Haugen was a product manager at what's now Meta. 441 00:20:06,820 --> 00:20:07,100 CROWD: (CHANTS) Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Frances Haugen was a product manager at what's now Meta. 442 00:20:07,100 --> 00:20:09,420 CROWD: (CHANTS) Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! 443 00:20:09,420 --> 00:20:15,100 After the chaos of the 2020 election and its violent aftermath, 444 00:20:15,100 --> 00:20:15,380 After the chaos of the 2020 election and its violent aftermath, she leaked thousands of pages of company documents. 445 00:20:15,380 --> 00:20:19,740 she leaked thousands of pages of company documents. 446 00:20:19,740 --> 00:20:20,620 (INDISTINCT YELLING) 447 00:20:20,620 --> 00:20:22,100 So, at Facebook, 448 00:20:22,100 --> 00:20:22,340 there was one area of the company, Civic Integrity, So, at Facebook, 449 00:20:22,340 --> 00:20:24,860 there was one area of the company, Civic Integrity, 450 00:20:24,860 --> 00:20:26,700 that was responsible for trying to make sure 451 00:20:26,700 --> 00:20:29,380 that Facebook was a positive force in the world. 452 00:20:29,380 --> 00:20:29,660 that Facebook was a positive force in the world. When they dissolved that team right after the election, 453 00:20:29,660 --> 00:20:32,100 When they dissolved that team right after the election, 454 00:20:32,100 --> 00:20:35,220 less than 30 days after people voted in the United States, 455 00:20:35,220 --> 00:20:35,460 less than 30 days after people voted I knew that Facebook 456 00:20:35,460 --> 00:20:36,580 I knew that Facebook 457 00:20:36,580 --> 00:20:38,860 wasn't going to be able to heal itself on its own. 458 00:20:38,860 --> 00:20:42,380 The woman was talking about a change that has been going on Instagram... 459 00:20:42,380 --> 00:20:46,300 Frances Haugen says social-media companies like Meta 460 00:20:46,300 --> 00:20:46,540 Frances Haugen says are taking Elon Musk's lead 461 00:20:46,540 --> 00:20:48,580 are taking Elon Musk's lead 462 00:20:48,580 --> 00:20:50,660 in slashing staff 463 00:20:50,660 --> 00:20:50,900 hired to stop disinformation in slashing staff 464 00:20:50,900 --> 00:20:56,020 hired to stop disinformation from being disseminated. 465 00:20:56,020 --> 00:20:58,780 Seeing that you could fire huge numbers of people 466 00:20:58,780 --> 00:21:01,340 and not face really any meaningful consequences, 467 00:21:01,340 --> 00:21:01,580 and not face Mark Zuckerberg followed 468 00:21:01,580 --> 00:21:03,260 Mark Zuckerberg followed 469 00:21:03,260 --> 00:21:05,220 and fired 20,000 employees. 470 00:21:05,220 --> 00:21:08,140 They closed the only mechanism for transparency 471 00:21:08,140 --> 00:21:11,540 that existed for either Facebook or Instagram. 472 00:21:11,540 --> 00:21:12,860 During the US election season 473 00:21:12,860 --> 00:21:15,340 there will be no tool available from Facebook 474 00:21:15,340 --> 00:21:17,140 to be able to see what's going on on the platform 475 00:21:17,140 --> 00:21:17,380 to be able to see even in a moderate way. 476 00:21:17,380 --> 00:21:18,460 even in a moderate way. 477 00:21:18,460 --> 00:21:18,700 So, I would say even in a moderate way. 478 00:21:18,700 --> 00:21:21,700 So, I would say Musk has done a very dangerous thing 479 00:21:21,700 --> 00:21:23,740 in terms of establishing a precedent. 480 00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:28,780 Meta told us it now has 40,000 people 481 00:21:28,780 --> 00:21:31,180 working in safety and security, 482 00:21:31,180 --> 00:21:34,740 more than it did in 2020. 483 00:21:34,740 --> 00:21:38,100 DONALD TRUMP: Where is... Where is he? Come on up here, Elon! 484 00:21:38,100 --> 00:21:38,340 DONALD TRUMP: Where is... (CHEERING) 485 00:21:38,340 --> 00:21:40,980 (CHEERING) 486 00:21:40,980 --> 00:21:41,220 ELON MUSK: We had one president who (CHEERING) 487 00:21:41,220 --> 00:21:44,260 ELON MUSK: We had one president who couldn't climb a flight of stairs... 488 00:21:44,260 --> 00:21:44,500 ELON MUSK: We had one president who (LAUGHTER) 489 00:21:44,500 --> 00:21:45,260 (LAUGHTER) 490 00:21:45,260 --> 00:21:49,260 ..and another who was fist-pumping after getting shot. 491 00:21:49,260 --> 00:21:51,300 (CHEERING) 492 00:21:51,300 --> 00:21:52,860 Fight! Fight! Fight! 493 00:21:52,860 --> 00:21:55,260 One of the things that has most 494 00:21:55,260 --> 00:21:59,420 turned Eddie Perez off the platform he once worked for 495 00:21:59,420 --> 00:22:02,940 is how X has been politically weaponised 496 00:22:02,940 --> 00:22:03,180 is how by its new owner, Elon Musk. 497 00:22:03,180 --> 00:22:05,580 by its new owner, Elon Musk. 498 00:22:06,540 --> 00:22:12,740 Mr Musk's posts have become ardently supportive of Donald Trump 499 00:22:12,740 --> 00:22:17,020 and sometimes disturbing in tone. 500 00:22:17,020 --> 00:22:19,260 I made a joke which I realised... I deleted, 501 00:22:19,260 --> 00:22:22,300 which is like, "Nobody's even BOTHERING to try to kill Kamala" 502 00:22:22,300 --> 00:22:24,820 because it's pointless. (BOTH LAUGH) 503 00:22:24,820 --> 00:22:27,180 What do you achieve? Nothing. Just buy another puppet. 504 00:22:27,180 --> 00:22:29,060 Elon Musk, thank you very much. You're welcome. 505 00:22:31,740 --> 00:22:35,060 Would the posts of Elon Musk 506 00:22:35,060 --> 00:22:37,340 violate the sort of rules 507 00:22:37,340 --> 00:22:40,260 that you and your colleagues were putting in place? 508 00:22:40,260 --> 00:22:42,300 Certainly some of them definitely would. 509 00:22:42,300 --> 00:22:42,540 Certainly It disturbs me the most 510 00:22:42,540 --> 00:22:44,020 It disturbs me the most 511 00:22:44,020 --> 00:22:44,260 because, to me, It disturbs me the most 512 00:22:44,260 --> 00:22:47,860 because, to me, what it is actually illustrating 513 00:22:47,860 --> 00:22:51,260 are the really, really pernicious ends 514 00:22:51,260 --> 00:22:51,500 are the really, really that come with tremendous wealth 515 00:22:51,500 --> 00:22:53,220 that come with tremendous wealth 516 00:22:53,220 --> 00:22:56,660 and with tremendous power and with influence, 517 00:22:56,660 --> 00:23:00,500 and when it is paired with absolute recklessness. 518 00:23:00,500 --> 00:23:00,780 X has a very harmful place in the current media ecosystem. and when it is paired with absolute recklessness. 519 00:23:00,780 --> 00:23:07,180 X has a very harmful place in the current media ecosystem. 520 00:23:07,180 --> 00:23:10,460 Whether people are actively participating in it or not, 521 00:23:10,460 --> 00:23:13,300 the ripple effects from that will be felt. 522 00:23:13,300 --> 00:23:14,900 NEWSREADER: Unverified claims 523 00:23:14,900 --> 00:23:18,300 about Haitian immigrants killing and eating people's pets. 524 00:23:18,300 --> 00:23:23,500 Eddie Perez says one of the most powerful illustrations of this 525 00:23:23,500 --> 00:23:28,700 was the false claim whipped up on social media, posted by Elon Musk, 526 00:23:28,700 --> 00:23:33,900 that migrants in Springfield, Ohio, were eating pets... 527 00:23:33,900 --> 00:23:34,140 that migrants in Springfield, Ohio, See, I'm a different kind of... were eating pets... 528 00:23:34,140 --> 00:23:35,020 See, I'm a different kind of... 529 00:23:35,020 --> 00:23:39,140 ..a false claim that was repeated in the presidential debate 530 00:23:39,140 --> 00:23:42,620 by Republican candidate Donald Trump. 531 00:23:42,620 --> 00:23:44,540 In Springfield 532 00:23:44,540 --> 00:23:46,340 they're eating the dogs. 533 00:23:46,340 --> 00:23:49,220 The people that came in, they're eating the cats. 534 00:23:49,220 --> 00:23:50,260 They're eating... 535 00:23:50,260 --> 00:23:52,340 They're eating the pets. 536 00:23:52,340 --> 00:23:52,540 (DOG WHINES) They're eating the pets. 537 00:23:52,540 --> 00:23:53,340 (DOG WHINES) 538 00:23:53,340 --> 00:23:54,940 # They're eating the dogs They're eating... # 539 00:23:54,940 --> 00:23:55,180 # They're eating the dogs They're eating... # It flooded social media 540 00:23:55,180 --> 00:23:56,940 It flooded social media 541 00:23:56,940 --> 00:24:00,540 with AI-generated Trump cat memes. 542 00:24:00,540 --> 00:24:02,300 # Eat the cat, eat-eat the cat 543 00:24:02,300 --> 00:24:02,540 # Eat the cat # Eat the cat, eat-eat the cat 544 00:24:02,540 --> 00:24:03,940 # Eat the cat They're eating the cats 545 00:24:03,940 --> 00:24:04,180 # Eat the cat # They're eating the dogs... # 546 00:24:04,180 --> 00:24:05,460 # They're eating the dogs... # 547 00:24:05,460 --> 00:24:07,740 EDWARD PEREZ: I mean, it would be laughable if it weren't so harmful. 548 00:24:07,740 --> 00:24:07,980 EDWARD PEREZ: I mean, it would be # Talk about extreme! # 549 00:24:07,980 --> 00:24:09,260 # Talk about extreme! # 550 00:24:10,660 --> 00:24:12,940 X is fundamentally operating 551 00:24:12,940 --> 00:24:18,140 like a amplifier and disinformation machine, 552 00:24:18,140 --> 00:24:18,380 like a amplifier almost like a factory 553 00:24:18,380 --> 00:24:20,260 almost like a factory 554 00:24:20,260 --> 00:24:20,500 for these inflammatory almost like a factory 555 00:24:20,500 --> 00:24:23,500 for these inflammatory right-wing messages. 556 00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:28,300 The bottom line here is that there is very real human harm. 557 00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:33,420 What happened to that small town of Ohio was terrible. 558 00:24:33,420 --> 00:24:33,660 What happened to that small town They ended up with bomb threats. 559 00:24:33,660 --> 00:24:36,620 They ended up with bomb threats. 560 00:24:36,620 --> 00:24:36,860 They ended up They ended up with bomb threats. 561 00:24:36,860 --> 00:24:39,620 They ended up having to evacuate schools. 562 00:24:39,620 --> 00:24:42,740 It was absolute chaos for those poor people 563 00:24:42,740 --> 00:24:45,180 that, frankly, were used as political pawns. 564 00:24:45,180 --> 00:24:48,100 I think absolutely the United States has gone backwards 565 00:24:48,100 --> 00:24:48,340 I think absolutely in its response to disinformation. 566 00:24:48,340 --> 00:24:50,580 in its response to disinformation. 567 00:24:51,860 --> 00:24:54,420 COMMENTATOR: The US Department of Homeland Security 568 00:24:54,420 --> 00:24:56,700 recently tried to create an advisory board, 569 00:24:56,700 --> 00:24:59,420 what it called a Disinformation Governance Board. 570 00:24:59,420 --> 00:24:59,660 what it called But that board quickly collapsed. 571 00:24:59,660 --> 00:25:01,540 But that board quickly collapsed. 572 00:25:03,260 --> 00:25:05,020 In 2022 573 00:25:05,020 --> 00:25:08,980 Nina Jankowicz was appointed executive director 574 00:25:08,980 --> 00:25:12,980 of a new Disinformation Governance Board. 575 00:25:12,980 --> 00:25:18,220 But this government attempt to rein in the lies on social media 576 00:25:18,220 --> 00:25:22,940 was a disastrously short-lived experiment. 577 00:25:22,940 --> 00:25:26,380 So, today, to herald the coming of the new Soviet America, 578 00:25:26,380 --> 00:25:29,700 the administration announced its own Ministry of Truth. 579 00:25:29,700 --> 00:25:33,980 Right-wing influencers started calling it a Ministry of Truth, 580 00:25:33,980 --> 00:25:36,340 and within 24 hours 581 00:25:36,340 --> 00:25:43,660 the board and I were the subject of many Fox News panels and reports 582 00:25:43,660 --> 00:25:43,940 saying that I was going to be censoring Americans, the board and I were the subject of many Fox News panels and reports 583 00:25:43,940 --> 00:25:47,100 saying that I was going to be censoring Americans, 584 00:25:47,100 --> 00:25:50,020 Tucker Carlson said that I would have the power 585 00:25:50,020 --> 00:25:50,300 Tucker Carlson said that I would have the power to send men with guns to the homes of Americans with whom I disagreed, 586 00:25:50,300 --> 00:25:53,820 to send men with guns to the homes of Americans with whom I disagreed, 587 00:25:53,820 --> 00:25:54,060 to send men with guns to the homes which absolutely was not true. 588 00:25:54,060 --> 00:25:55,540 which absolutely was not true. 589 00:25:55,540 --> 00:25:55,780 This lady is clearly totally unfit for the task. which absolutely was not true. 590 00:25:55,780 --> 00:25:58,980 This lady is clearly totally unfit for the task. 591 00:25:58,980 --> 00:25:59,220 This lady is clearly totally unfit for the task. (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) 592 00:25:59,220 --> 00:26:01,140 (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) 593 00:26:02,580 --> 00:26:04,620 We're talking about the Ministry of Truth here? 594 00:26:04,620 --> 00:26:04,860 We're talking about Are we talking about Orwell's 1984? 595 00:26:04,860 --> 00:26:07,220 Are we talking about Orwell's 1984? 596 00:26:07,220 --> 00:26:07,460 Because it sounds Are we talking about Orwell's 1984? 597 00:26:07,460 --> 00:26:09,300 Because it sounds an awful like that to me. 598 00:26:10,260 --> 00:26:14,140 Flooded with threats and the most toxic of online hate... 599 00:26:14,140 --> 00:26:14,380 She's wildly inadequate... Flooded with threats and the most toxic of online hate... 600 00:26:14,380 --> 00:26:16,660 She's wildly inadequate... 601 00:26:16,660 --> 00:26:21,500 ..Nina Jankowitz resigned from her position after three weeks. 602 00:26:21,500 --> 00:26:21,740 ..Nina Jankowitz resigned from her position after three weeks. No. Nada. Nunca. 603 00:26:21,740 --> 00:26:24,180 No. Nada. Nunca. 604 00:26:25,140 --> 00:26:27,900 The worst part was that they went after me and my family. 605 00:26:27,900 --> 00:26:28,140 The worst part was that It led people to dox me, 606 00:26:28,140 --> 00:26:31,140 It led people to dox me, 607 00:26:31,140 --> 00:26:33,180 so, to release my home address and phone number 608 00:26:33,180 --> 00:26:33,420 so, to release my home address and that of my close family, 609 00:26:33,420 --> 00:26:36,060 and that of my close family, 610 00:26:36,060 --> 00:26:37,620 to threaten me credibly. 611 00:26:37,620 --> 00:26:40,740 I, you know, had to consult with the Federal Protective Service. 612 00:26:40,740 --> 00:26:40,980 I, you know, had to consult And at the time I was pregnant, 613 00:26:40,980 --> 00:26:42,020 And at the time I was pregnant, 614 00:26:42,020 --> 00:26:44,860 I was just a couple of weeks away from becoming a mom, 615 00:26:44,860 --> 00:26:47,380 and they were threatening me and my unborn child. 616 00:26:47,380 --> 00:26:47,620 and they were threatening (QUACKS) 617 00:26:47,620 --> 00:26:48,700 (QUACKS) 618 00:26:51,540 --> 00:26:53,020 In America 619 00:26:53,020 --> 00:26:58,540 children are now at the centre of the battle against Big Tech. 620 00:27:03,740 --> 00:27:07,700 American lawmakers, educators and parents 621 00:27:07,700 --> 00:27:11,140 are fighting back against the social-media companies 622 00:27:11,140 --> 00:27:11,380 are fighting back with a huge legal case 623 00:27:11,380 --> 00:27:13,220 with a huge legal case 624 00:27:13,220 --> 00:27:16,020 where 37 state attorneys-general 625 00:27:16,020 --> 00:27:19,260 are joining together with school districts 626 00:27:19,260 --> 00:27:22,180 and thousands of families across the country 627 00:27:22,180 --> 00:27:22,420 and thousands of families to say that these platforms 628 00:27:22,420 --> 00:27:24,660 to say that these platforms 629 00:27:24,660 --> 00:27:28,460 are causing profound harm to young people. 630 00:27:30,180 --> 00:27:33,700 Previn Warren is one of the lawyers running the case 631 00:27:33,700 --> 00:27:33,940 Previn Warren is one of the lawyers against the social-media companies. 632 00:27:33,940 --> 00:27:36,660 against the social-media companies. 633 00:27:36,660 --> 00:27:41,300 Five other state attorneys-general are running their own cases. 634 00:27:42,460 --> 00:27:45,220 A lot of these parents have lost their kids, 635 00:27:45,220 --> 00:27:47,780 and they've lost their kids needlessly 636 00:27:47,780 --> 00:27:53,700 through the absolute wanton negligence of these platforms. 637 00:27:53,700 --> 00:27:59,300 Mr Warren was at Harvard when Mark Zuckerberg launched Facebook, 638 00:27:59,300 --> 00:27:59,540 Mr Warren was at Harvard when and was one of its first users. 639 00:27:59,540 --> 00:28:02,060 and was one of its first users. 640 00:28:02,060 --> 00:28:02,300 What was FaceMash? And is it still up and running? and was one of its first users. 641 00:28:02,300 --> 00:28:05,060 What was FaceMash? And is it still up and running? 642 00:28:05,060 --> 00:28:09,620 Facebook's forerunner was a website called FaceMash. 643 00:28:09,620 --> 00:28:11,060 You put up pictures of two women 644 00:28:11,060 --> 00:28:13,540 and decide which one was the better, more attractive of the two? 645 00:28:13,540 --> 00:28:14,420 Is that right? 646 00:28:15,380 --> 00:28:17,780 Congressman, that is an accurate description 647 00:28:17,780 --> 00:28:19,860 of the prank website that I made when I was... 648 00:28:19,860 --> 00:28:20,140 of the prank website that I made when I was... That's the origin story of Mr Zuckerberg's entire empire. 649 00:28:20,140 --> 00:28:24,780 That's the origin story of Mr Zuckerberg's entire empire. 650 00:28:24,780 --> 00:28:26,820 And fast forward to where we are now. 651 00:28:26,820 --> 00:28:28,860 And, fast forwarding to where we are now, 652 00:28:28,860 --> 00:28:29,100 And, fast forwarding what is the impact on teenage girls? 653 00:28:29,100 --> 00:28:32,780 what is the impact on teenage girls? 654 00:28:32,780 --> 00:28:35,500 Its algorithm is designed 655 00:28:35,500 --> 00:28:37,700 to push content at young girls 656 00:28:37,700 --> 00:28:40,540 that they will find engaging, 657 00:28:40,540 --> 00:28:40,740 and it sucks them down a rabbit hole that they will find engaging, 658 00:28:40,740 --> 00:28:42,580 and it sucks them down a rabbit hole 659 00:28:42,580 --> 00:28:45,500 of dieting tips, beauty content. 660 00:28:45,500 --> 00:28:45,700 of dieting tips, beauty content. We should not be living in a society 661 00:28:45,700 --> 00:28:47,580 We should not be living in a society 662 00:28:47,580 --> 00:28:50,300 where young women are made to feel 663 00:28:50,300 --> 00:28:52,700 by powerful, rich tech companies 664 00:28:52,700 --> 00:28:55,180 that they are not good enough. 665 00:28:59,700 --> 00:29:02,300 Many of Previn Warren's clients 666 00:29:02,300 --> 00:29:05,820 are parents of teenage users of these platforms 667 00:29:05,820 --> 00:29:10,860 who allege social-media contributed to their children's deaths. 668 00:29:13,820 --> 00:29:17,180 I don't think Instagram wants to kill kids. 669 00:29:17,180 --> 00:29:20,140 I think Instagram wants to make a ton of money, 670 00:29:20,140 --> 00:29:23,460 and they don't care if they happen to kill some kids along the way. 671 00:29:24,420 --> 00:29:28,820 And what does that say about the people running that organisation? 672 00:29:28,820 --> 00:29:29,060 And what does that say about I think they don't care. 673 00:29:29,060 --> 00:29:30,180 I think they don't care. 674 00:29:30,180 --> 00:29:30,420 I think, at the end of the day, they I think they don't care. 675 00:29:30,420 --> 00:29:33,140 I think, at the end of the day, they think that they're above the law 676 00:29:33,140 --> 00:29:36,700 and if they don't HAVE to change their design 677 00:29:36,700 --> 00:29:36,940 and if they don't HAVE to in a way that maximises safety, 678 00:29:36,940 --> 00:29:39,180 in a way that maximises safety, 679 00:29:39,180 --> 00:29:40,940 they won't. 680 00:29:40,940 --> 00:29:43,900 They will put their profits first. 681 00:29:43,900 --> 00:29:48,180 That is an incredibly dangerous thing for our society. 682 00:29:52,820 --> 00:29:55,140 (EAGLE CALLS) 683 00:30:04,180 --> 00:30:08,460 We went to a tiny town in rural Colorado 684 00:30:08,460 --> 00:30:11,780 to hear just how dangerous it can be. 685 00:30:15,300 --> 00:30:19,020 It's corn harvest time in Merino, 686 00:30:19,020 --> 00:30:22,900 population 281. 687 00:30:23,900 --> 00:30:26,340 One of the young people from this town 688 00:30:26,340 --> 00:30:26,580 One of the young people is not here to tell her story, 689 00:30:26,580 --> 00:30:29,020 is not here to tell her story, 690 00:30:29,020 --> 00:30:31,900 but her mother, Lori Schott, 691 00:30:31,900 --> 00:30:34,300 wants the world to know it. 692 00:30:36,460 --> 00:30:39,300 Her name was Annalee Schott. 693 00:30:40,260 --> 00:30:42,700 Everyone called her Anna. 694 00:30:43,860 --> 00:30:48,460 LORI SCHOTT: She was an adorable little country girl. 695 00:30:48,460 --> 00:30:48,740 She was about five foot tall. She weighed 100 pounds. LORI SCHOTT: She was an adorable little country girl. 696 00:30:48,740 --> 00:30:51,700 She was about five foot tall. She weighed 100 pounds. 697 00:30:51,700 --> 00:30:53,660 She was my shadow all growing up. 698 00:30:53,660 --> 00:30:53,900 She was my shadow all growing up. Lori Schott is one of the thousands of parents across America 699 00:30:53,900 --> 00:30:59,540 Lori Schott is one of the thousands of parents across America 700 00:30:59,540 --> 00:30:59,780 Lori Schott is one of the thousands suing the social-media companies. 701 00:30:59,780 --> 00:31:02,140 suing the social-media companies. 702 00:31:02,140 --> 00:31:04,540 Why are you speaking out, Lori? 703 00:31:07,780 --> 00:31:08,820 Sorry. 704 00:31:12,860 --> 00:31:15,660 I've never felt such a passion... 705 00:31:17,540 --> 00:31:19,940 ..to make a wrong a right. 706 00:31:21,420 --> 00:31:24,260 Losing our daughter at the age of 18, 707 00:31:24,260 --> 00:31:24,500 Losing our daughter knowing that it was preventable, 708 00:31:24,500 --> 00:31:26,860 knowing that it was preventable, 709 00:31:26,860 --> 00:31:28,580 I had a choice, you know, 710 00:31:28,580 --> 00:31:32,980 either to curl up in my own sorrow and pity 711 00:31:32,980 --> 00:31:36,060 or, after what I found out about social media, 712 00:31:36,060 --> 00:31:38,740 to share Anna's story, to be her voice. 713 00:31:41,620 --> 00:31:45,380 Anna's best friend was Faith Murphy. 714 00:31:46,340 --> 00:31:48,540 She was kind. 715 00:31:49,420 --> 00:31:51,380 Like, undoubtedly kind. 716 00:31:51,380 --> 00:31:52,460 Always. 717 00:31:54,060 --> 00:31:55,940 Mm... Jesus Christ. 718 00:32:02,180 --> 00:32:05,020 To anybody and everybody. All the time. 719 00:32:06,140 --> 00:32:10,100 Faith says they would spend about 10 hours a day 720 00:32:10,100 --> 00:32:13,340 on Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok. 721 00:32:14,300 --> 00:32:17,300 Tell me about her use of social media. 722 00:32:17,300 --> 00:32:17,540 Tell me about her use It was gnarly. It was bad. 723 00:32:17,540 --> 00:32:20,180 It was gnarly. It was bad. 724 00:32:21,820 --> 00:32:23,100 Gnarly. 725 00:32:24,660 --> 00:32:26,260 Non-stop. 726 00:32:26,260 --> 00:32:27,540 Continuous. 727 00:32:28,500 --> 00:32:32,220 She was so desperate to be on those platforms, 728 00:32:32,220 --> 00:32:34,580 if you'd take her phone, she'd find an iPad. 729 00:32:34,580 --> 00:32:37,220 Then I tried to figure out if she was on her school computer 730 00:32:37,220 --> 00:32:37,460 Then I tried to figure out or her private computer. 731 00:32:37,460 --> 00:32:38,860 or her private computer. 732 00:32:38,860 --> 00:32:42,420 She would be doing her chores, the phone was in her hand. 733 00:32:42,420 --> 00:32:44,900 She would be riding in the arena with her horse, 734 00:32:44,900 --> 00:32:45,140 She would be riding in the arena her phone would be in her pocket. 735 00:32:45,140 --> 00:32:46,700 her phone would be in her pocket. 736 00:32:46,700 --> 00:32:50,620 And it was her constant companion. 737 00:32:50,620 --> 00:32:52,540 And she said she needed it for school work. 738 00:32:52,540 --> 00:32:55,020 Well, I don't think that was what was going on. 739 00:32:55,020 --> 00:32:57,900 She needed it because she was on these social-media platforms 740 00:32:57,900 --> 00:32:58,140 She needed it because she was and did not want to give it up. 741 00:32:58,140 --> 00:32:59,500 and did not want to give it up. 742 00:32:59,500 --> 00:33:02,740 Because she was addicted? Because she was addicted to it. 743 00:33:02,740 --> 00:33:06,700 Yeah. I think everyone that at that age is addicted to social media. 744 00:33:26,300 --> 00:33:29,580 Anna's friends and family began to notice 745 00:33:29,580 --> 00:33:34,020 that by age 16 she was losing her spark. 746 00:33:34,980 --> 00:33:36,740 She was depressed. 747 00:33:36,740 --> 00:33:39,700 Social media made it worse. 748 00:33:40,660 --> 00:33:47,420 Journal entries show her comparing herself to images she saw online, 749 00:33:47,420 --> 00:33:47,660 writing: herself to images she saw online, 750 00:33:47,660 --> 00:33:49,100 writing: 751 00:33:53,700 --> 00:33:55,900 Like, she would go through phases 752 00:33:55,900 --> 00:33:58,100 where she was like, "Hey, just text me," 753 00:33:58,100 --> 00:34:01,220 like, "I'm deleting Snapchat, I'm deleting Instagram." 754 00:34:01,220 --> 00:34:01,460 like, "I'm deleting Snapchat, And it would last, 755 00:34:01,460 --> 00:34:03,500 And it would last, 756 00:34:03,500 --> 00:34:03,700 like, a month max, And it would last, 757 00:34:03,700 --> 00:34:05,420 like, a month max, 758 00:34:05,420 --> 00:34:08,940 and then it was redownloaded and... 759 00:34:08,940 --> 00:34:10,220 Why was she wanting 760 00:34:10,220 --> 00:34:10,420 Why was she wanting to delete these platforms? 761 00:34:10,420 --> 00:34:12,660 to delete these platforms? 762 00:34:12,660 --> 00:34:14,860 'Cause it was toxic. 763 00:34:14,860 --> 00:34:17,140 If you could see her social media, 764 00:34:17,140 --> 00:34:20,540 it destroyed her with constant feeds 765 00:34:20,540 --> 00:34:23,220 about how she looked, who she was, 766 00:34:23,220 --> 00:34:24,540 anxiety, depression. 767 00:34:24,540 --> 00:34:26,020 She wasn't sleeping 768 00:34:26,020 --> 00:34:28,260 because, you know, when we let her have her phone, 769 00:34:28,260 --> 00:34:28,500 because, you know, she was constantly on it. 770 00:34:28,500 --> 00:34:29,620 she was constantly on it. 771 00:34:29,620 --> 00:34:29,860 I think she was sleeping she was constantly on it. 772 00:34:29,860 --> 00:34:31,380 I think she was sleeping four hours a night. 773 00:34:31,380 --> 00:34:31,620 But Instagram fed her... I think she was sleeping four hours a night. 774 00:34:31,620 --> 00:34:34,580 But Instagram fed her... 775 00:34:36,740 --> 00:34:38,540 ..the worst content. 776 00:34:38,540 --> 00:34:38,780 ..the worst content. I feel like it is a heat-detecting missile 777 00:34:38,780 --> 00:34:40,740 I feel like it is a heat-detecting missile 778 00:34:40,740 --> 00:34:44,820 that finds these weaknesses in these children and just zone in on it. 779 00:34:44,820 --> 00:34:45,060 that finds these weaknesses in these So, they knew that Anna's weakness 780 00:34:45,060 --> 00:34:46,620 So, they knew that Anna's weakness 781 00:34:46,620 --> 00:34:46,860 was, you know, So, they knew that Anna's weakness 782 00:34:46,860 --> 00:34:48,660 was, you know, a little anxiety or depression - 783 00:34:48,660 --> 00:34:51,220 "I'm going to a counsellor," looking these things up, 784 00:34:51,220 --> 00:34:51,460 "I'm going to a counsellor," and it just magnified it. 785 00:34:51,460 --> 00:34:53,780 and it just magnified it. 786 00:34:53,780 --> 00:34:57,100 And it did not stop. 787 00:34:57,100 --> 00:34:58,740 And, as a parent, 788 00:34:58,740 --> 00:35:02,660 you say you don't think it's going to happen to you in your family. 789 00:35:02,660 --> 00:35:02,900 you say you don't think it's going It does. 790 00:35:02,900 --> 00:35:03,660 It does. 791 00:35:03,660 --> 00:35:06,260 Those algorithms change so quickly, 792 00:35:06,260 --> 00:35:06,500 and no parent Those algorithms change so quickly, 793 00:35:06,500 --> 00:35:10,380 and no parent can outsmart those algorithms. 794 00:35:15,460 --> 00:35:19,740 The TikTok algorithm pushed deeply disturbing videos 795 00:35:19,740 --> 00:35:21,980 on Anna's For You feed. 796 00:35:23,420 --> 00:35:28,940 It curated content that constantly referenced death and suicide. 797 00:35:30,100 --> 00:35:34,900 Lori Schott only discovered this after Anna died. 798 00:35:37,060 --> 00:35:42,180 She found a page in Anna's journal headed 'TikToks', 799 00:35:42,180 --> 00:35:42,420 She found a page in Anna's journal with the handwritten words: 800 00:35:42,420 --> 00:35:45,180 with the handwritten words: 801 00:35:54,820 --> 00:35:56,540 It brought me to my knees. 802 00:35:56,540 --> 00:35:57,900 It crippled me. 803 00:35:57,900 --> 00:36:02,980 I mean, to this day I can't unsee what I saw. 804 00:36:02,980 --> 00:36:06,300 How does that make you feel towards the social-media companies? 805 00:36:06,300 --> 00:36:06,540 How does that make you feel I think it's disgusting. 806 00:36:06,540 --> 00:36:08,100 I think it's disgusting. 807 00:36:09,060 --> 00:36:10,380 Fix it. 808 00:36:11,700 --> 00:36:18,100 Your algorithms are targeting the mentally unwell and children, 809 00:36:18,100 --> 00:36:22,340 and worsen all of the shit they're already dealing with. 810 00:36:24,780 --> 00:36:29,060 TikTok says it has strict community guidelines 811 00:36:29,060 --> 00:36:34,020 and doesn't allow content depicting extreme violence, self-harm 812 00:36:34,020 --> 00:36:34,260 and doesn't allow content depicting or promoting eating disorders. 813 00:36:34,260 --> 00:36:37,020 or promoting eating disorders. 814 00:36:37,980 --> 00:36:40,540 To find out what the tech giants knew 815 00:36:40,540 --> 00:36:43,980 about the dangers to young people like Anna Schott, 816 00:36:43,980 --> 00:36:44,220 about the dangers to young people we've travelled here to San Francisco 817 00:36:44,220 --> 00:36:47,060 we've travelled here to San Francisco 818 00:36:47,060 --> 00:36:49,500 to meet Silicon Valley insiders 819 00:36:49,500 --> 00:36:52,100 who were alarmed at what they saw 820 00:36:52,100 --> 00:36:56,940 when advising the social-media companies on trust and safety. 821 00:37:00,700 --> 00:37:03,660 My name is Arturo Bejar. 822 00:37:03,660 --> 00:37:09,620 For me, I mean, the reason I'm here talking with you, right, is... 823 00:37:10,580 --> 00:37:12,540 ..this shouldn't be happening. 824 00:37:13,740 --> 00:37:18,900 And every parent should know 825 00:37:18,900 --> 00:37:20,420 how bad it is. 826 00:37:23,100 --> 00:37:25,700 In October 2021 827 00:37:25,700 --> 00:37:30,780 Arturo Bejar emailed Facebook's CEO, Mark Zuckerberg, 828 00:37:30,780 --> 00:37:35,340 to warn him of the dangers to young people. 829 00:37:35,340 --> 00:37:38,820 He raised internal company research he'd worked on 830 00:37:38,820 --> 00:37:39,060 He raised internal company research that showed: 831 00:37:39,060 --> 00:37:40,420 that showed: 832 00:37:50,740 --> 00:37:55,020 More than a quarter of 13- to 15-year-olds surveyed 833 00:37:55,020 --> 00:37:59,660 said they'd received unwanted sexual advances. 834 00:37:59,660 --> 00:37:59,900 "Don't we run the risk said they'd received unwanted sexual advances. 835 00:37:59,900 --> 00:38:01,540 "Don't we run the risk 836 00:38:01,540 --> 00:38:06,940 "of normalising bad behaviour?" Mr Bejar asked his boss. 837 00:38:06,940 --> 00:38:09,820 On many of the measures examined by his team, 838 00:38:09,820 --> 00:38:13,540 13- to 15-year-olds were the most likely 839 00:38:13,540 --> 00:38:13,780 to encounter dangerous content, were the most likely 840 00:38:13,780 --> 00:38:16,820 to encounter dangerous content, 841 00:38:16,820 --> 00:38:21,740 including posts about self-harm on Instagram. 842 00:38:24,540 --> 00:38:28,100 And to this day - I mean, it's insane - 843 00:38:28,100 --> 00:38:28,380 there's no way for a kid to press a button And to this day - I mean, it's insane - 844 00:38:28,380 --> 00:38:30,380 there's no way for a kid to press a button 845 00:38:30,380 --> 00:38:32,900 to let know Instagram that that happened. 846 00:38:33,780 --> 00:38:35,020 Why? 847 00:38:35,020 --> 00:38:36,780 Because they don't want to know. 848 00:38:36,780 --> 00:38:38,340 Why don't they want to know? 849 00:38:38,340 --> 00:38:38,580 Because I think that if they knew, Why don't they want to know? 850 00:38:38,580 --> 00:38:40,860 Because I think that if they knew, they might be... 851 00:38:40,860 --> 00:38:41,100 Because I think that if they knew, ..they might think they're liable. 852 00:38:41,100 --> 00:38:42,420 ..they might think they're liable. 853 00:38:42,420 --> 00:38:44,780 I think, if they knew, they might feel 854 00:38:44,780 --> 00:38:46,260 they have a responsibility to deal with it. 855 00:38:46,260 --> 00:38:46,500 they have a responsibility I mean, I think that the company 856 00:38:46,500 --> 00:38:47,900 I mean, I think that the company 857 00:38:47,900 --> 00:38:53,260 cares more about protecting its reputation and the risk of a leak 858 00:38:53,260 --> 00:38:57,820 than they do to understand the actual harm and reduce it. 859 00:38:57,820 --> 00:39:02,500 You brought your concerns to the highest levels of Meta, 860 00:39:02,500 --> 00:39:02,740 You brought your concerns right up to Mark Zuckerberg, 861 00:39:02,740 --> 00:39:05,140 right up to Mark Zuckerberg, 862 00:39:05,140 --> 00:39:06,860 and what was his response? 863 00:39:07,820 --> 00:39:09,580 He didn't even write back. 864 00:39:10,540 --> 00:39:16,900 Arturo Bejar worked at Facebook for six years until 2015. 865 00:39:16,900 --> 00:39:20,500 When he returned to the company in 2019 866 00:39:20,500 --> 00:39:21,780 he was horrified to see 867 00:39:21,780 --> 00:39:25,180 most of the safety measures to protect young people 868 00:39:25,180 --> 00:39:25,420 most of the safety measures that his team had put in place 869 00:39:25,420 --> 00:39:27,660 that his team had put in place 870 00:39:27,660 --> 00:39:30,740 had been removed from the platform. 871 00:39:30,740 --> 00:39:34,700 He also wrote to the head of Instagram, Adam Mosseri, 872 00:39:34,700 --> 00:39:34,940 He also wrote to the head about his concerns. 873 00:39:34,940 --> 00:39:36,900 about his concerns. 874 00:39:36,900 --> 00:39:38,620 And I had my meeting with him, 875 00:39:38,620 --> 00:39:38,860 and he understood And I had my meeting with him, 876 00:39:38,860 --> 00:39:41,140 and he understood everything I was talking about, 877 00:39:41,140 --> 00:39:41,380 and he understood he didn't disagree with any of it. 878 00:39:41,380 --> 00:39:43,420 he didn't disagree with any of it. 879 00:39:43,420 --> 00:39:45,460 So, that was 2021. 880 00:39:45,460 --> 00:39:47,180 What did he do? 881 00:39:47,180 --> 00:39:48,100 Nothing. 882 00:39:50,700 --> 00:39:53,020 How does that make you feel? 883 00:39:53,020 --> 00:39:55,620 Well, that's why I whistleblow. 884 00:39:55,620 --> 00:39:56,420 Right? 885 00:39:56,420 --> 00:39:58,340 How many kids, right? 886 00:39:59,380 --> 00:40:01,420 What... What... 887 00:40:01,420 --> 00:40:03,340 What is his legacy? 888 00:40:03,340 --> 00:40:06,500 What is Mark's legacy when it comes to teenagers? 889 00:40:06,500 --> 00:40:08,700 Right? What IS his legacy? 890 00:40:09,780 --> 00:40:11,340 Eating disorders. 891 00:40:11,340 --> 00:40:14,540 Teens committing suicide because of bullying and harassment. 892 00:40:14,540 --> 00:40:14,780 Teens committing suicide So much harm 893 00:40:14,780 --> 00:40:16,220 So much harm 894 00:40:16,220 --> 00:40:19,460 to the people that deserve to be protected the most. 895 00:40:20,500 --> 00:40:21,700 Well... They're here. 896 00:40:21,700 --> 00:40:21,940 Well... You're on national television. 897 00:40:21,940 --> 00:40:23,180 You're on national television. 898 00:40:23,180 --> 00:40:25,260 Mark Zuckerberg testified 899 00:40:25,260 --> 00:40:25,500 before the United States Mark Zuckerberg testified 900 00:40:25,500 --> 00:40:29,020 before the United States Senate Judiciary Committee... 901 00:40:29,020 --> 00:40:32,180 Would you like to apologise for what you've done to these good people? 902 00:40:32,180 --> 00:40:37,700 ..apologising for the harms his company had caused to young people. 903 00:40:37,700 --> 00:40:40,020 Arturo Bejar was there 904 00:40:40,020 --> 00:40:43,700 with the parents of teenagers who had died. 905 00:40:43,700 --> 00:40:48,260 I think Mark is responsible for what happened to these kids 906 00:40:48,260 --> 00:40:53,860 because if Mark woke up tomorrow morning and said, 907 00:40:53,860 --> 00:40:56,420 "We no longer are going to show 908 00:40:56,420 --> 00:41:00,380 "anything that has remotely to do with self-harm to 13-year-olds," 909 00:41:00,380 --> 00:41:02,900 it would take a few months for the company to be able to do that, 910 00:41:02,900 --> 00:41:05,540 they have the infrastructure and the capacity to do that. 911 00:41:05,540 --> 00:41:09,500 I've seen what the company can do when Mark deems it a priority, 912 00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:09,740 I've seen what the company can do and I've seen how hard it is 913 00:41:09,740 --> 00:41:11,100 and I've seen how hard it is 914 00:41:11,100 --> 00:41:14,580 for a company to do something if Mark doesn't deem it a priority. 915 00:41:14,580 --> 00:41:17,940 So, I think he has such responsibility 916 00:41:17,940 --> 00:41:20,300 when it comes to everything we're talking about. 917 00:41:22,220 --> 00:41:28,900 Meta disputes Arturo Bejar's assertion that no action was taken. 918 00:41:28,900 --> 00:41:31,940 It says it's implemented safety features 919 00:41:31,940 --> 00:41:36,740 such as "comment warnings and kindness reminders." 920 00:41:36,740 --> 00:41:40,860 The company has also introduced Teen Accounts, 921 00:41:40,860 --> 00:41:45,300 which it says provides teens "with built-in protections" 922 00:41:45,300 --> 00:41:47,540 and gives parents "more oversight, 923 00:41:47,540 --> 00:41:50,580 "including seeing who their teens are chatting with 924 00:41:50,580 --> 00:41:50,820 "including seeing "and setting time limits." 925 00:41:50,820 --> 00:41:52,860 "and setting time limits." 926 00:41:52,860 --> 00:41:57,700 Whistleblowers question whether these measures go far enough. 927 00:41:59,700 --> 00:42:02,700 If you were to choose three words that sum up social media, 928 00:42:02,700 --> 00:42:02,940 If you were to choose three words what would they be? 929 00:42:02,940 --> 00:42:04,020 what would they be? 930 00:42:04,020 --> 00:42:07,420 Unnecessarily, tragically harmful. 931 00:42:18,580 --> 00:42:21,900 This tiny community in Colorado 932 00:42:21,900 --> 00:42:26,700 is coming to terms with the unnecessary, tragic loss 933 00:42:26,700 --> 00:42:28,220 of a country teenager. 934 00:42:34,860 --> 00:42:37,340 LORI SCHOTT: She was a beautiful little rider. 935 00:42:37,340 --> 00:42:40,460 I still remember her backing into the box. 936 00:42:41,500 --> 00:42:43,540 She just loved it. 937 00:42:48,380 --> 00:42:51,780 I felt like social media just stripped her confidence. 938 00:42:51,780 --> 00:42:55,580 But when she was on a horse with these guys in this environment, 939 00:42:55,580 --> 00:42:55,820 But when she was on a horse she just blossomed. 940 00:42:55,820 --> 00:42:57,820 she just blossomed. 941 00:42:57,820 --> 00:42:59,780 What's that? Call it what you need to. 942 00:42:59,780 --> 00:43:01,980 These people were her cheering squad, 943 00:43:01,980 --> 00:43:03,980 so, it just crippled everybody, 944 00:43:03,980 --> 00:43:08,060 and to come back to the arena without her here is hard. 945 00:43:10,780 --> 00:43:15,780 Court documents revealed that in the months before Anna Schott's death 946 00:43:15,780 --> 00:43:19,420 Mark Zuckerberg was warned by his own staff 947 00:43:19,420 --> 00:43:19,660 Mark Zuckerberg was warned that photo filters used in Instagram 948 00:43:19,660 --> 00:43:22,500 that photo filters used in Instagram 949 00:43:22,500 --> 00:43:28,180 were "actively encouraging young girls into body dysmorphia." 950 00:43:28,180 --> 00:43:32,660 Mr Zuckerberg dismissed the concerns as 'paternalistic'. 951 00:43:35,300 --> 00:43:37,500 They knew what was happening. 952 00:43:37,500 --> 00:43:39,980 If you follow my daughter's journals, 953 00:43:39,980 --> 00:43:42,540 2019 - she was harmed 954 00:43:42,540 --> 00:43:47,060 for the exact same things they warned Mr Zuckerberg about. 955 00:43:47,060 --> 00:43:48,820 And they knew it. 956 00:43:48,820 --> 00:43:50,700 How could this happen 957 00:43:50,700 --> 00:43:50,940 and they're not accountable How could this happen 958 00:43:50,940 --> 00:43:53,580 and they're not accountable to this day? 959 00:43:53,580 --> 00:43:56,100 It hurts me every single day because my daughter would be alive, 960 00:43:56,100 --> 00:43:58,780 I really think she'd be alive today... 961 00:44:01,300 --> 00:44:02,340 Sorry. 962 00:44:03,300 --> 00:44:05,500 ..if he would have taken action. 963 00:44:05,500 --> 00:44:09,500 How do you feel towards Mark Zuckerberg in light of this? 964 00:44:09,500 --> 00:44:09,740 How do you feel towards (SCOFFS) 965 00:44:09,740 --> 00:44:10,700 (SCOFFS) 966 00:44:11,940 --> 00:44:13,660 He's responsible. 967 00:44:13,660 --> 00:44:15,300 I want him held accountable. 968 00:44:15,300 --> 00:44:19,500 So, he needs to be held legally liable 969 00:44:19,500 --> 00:44:22,140 for what's happened to these children. 970 00:44:22,140 --> 00:44:24,540 And that's a hill I'm willing to die on 971 00:44:24,540 --> 00:44:27,420 if I have to tell Anna's story 10,000 times. 972 00:44:27,420 --> 00:44:30,900 Because he had the ability to stop it, change it, 973 00:44:30,900 --> 00:44:31,140 Because he had the ability make it for the good of the kids. 974 00:44:31,140 --> 00:44:32,940 make it for the good of the kids. 975 00:44:32,940 --> 00:44:33,180 Let's make this a better place. make it for the good of the kids. 976 00:44:33,180 --> 00:44:36,620 Let's make this a better place. Let's get to a better yes. 977 00:44:36,620 --> 00:44:38,940 You can have your billions of dollars, I guess. 978 00:44:38,940 --> 00:44:41,940 But trying to improve it was not on his agenda, 979 00:44:41,940 --> 00:44:45,260 and he's going to have to live with that for the rest of his life. 980 00:44:45,260 --> 00:44:47,020 He does, he has blood on his hands. 981 00:44:49,260 --> 00:44:52,940 Meta says when all the evidence comes out 982 00:44:52,940 --> 00:44:58,220 it will demonstrate that neither the company nor any of its executives 983 00:44:58,220 --> 00:45:01,100 will have any liability 984 00:45:01,100 --> 00:45:03,500 and it has strict rules 985 00:45:03,500 --> 00:45:09,820 against content that's graphic or glorifies suicide or self-harm. 986 00:45:10,660 --> 00:45:13,980 (INSECTS CHIRP) 987 00:45:13,980 --> 00:45:18,700 Anna Schott died by suicide in her own home. 988 00:45:20,020 --> 00:45:23,140 She's buried on the family ranch. 989 00:45:24,700 --> 00:45:29,060 It is like a slow drip of pain 990 00:45:29,060 --> 00:45:32,380 that it has totally altered our family. 991 00:45:32,380 --> 00:45:34,660 But I want some good to come out of this. 992 00:45:39,220 --> 00:45:43,500 Each day, as the light fades across these plains, 993 00:45:43,500 --> 00:45:48,900 Lori Schott looks out to see Anna's memorial cross light up. 994 00:45:50,900 --> 00:45:53,620 You know, for us, it's not about the money. 995 00:45:53,620 --> 00:45:53,860 You know, for us, We just want our daughter back. 996 00:45:53,860 --> 00:45:56,260 We just want our daughter back. 997 00:45:56,260 --> 00:45:58,300 But if the lawsuits 998 00:45:58,300 --> 00:45:58,540 make social media stand up But if the lawsuits 999 00:45:58,540 --> 00:46:04,900 make social media stand up and take responsibility and change, 1000 00:46:04,900 --> 00:46:05,140 make social media stand up that's where I'm pushing. 1001 00:46:05,140 --> 00:46:07,860 that's where I'm pushing. 1002 00:46:07,860 --> 00:46:09,820 Make the world a better place, Mark Zuckerberg. 1003 00:46:09,820 --> 00:46:12,700 Make the world a better place, TikTok. 1004 00:46:12,700 --> 00:46:15,940 Every harm, every single harm, 1005 00:46:15,940 --> 00:46:17,380 I can see a child's face. 1006 00:46:17,380 --> 00:46:22,100 You know, we let a stranger into our house every night 1007 00:46:22,100 --> 00:46:22,340 You know, we let a stranger that does the most horrific things 1008 00:46:22,340 --> 00:46:26,620 that does the most horrific things 1009 00:46:26,620 --> 00:46:26,860 and can manipulate a child's mind that does the most horrific things 1010 00:46:26,860 --> 00:46:31,140 and can manipulate a child's mind to that extent 1011 00:46:31,140 --> 00:46:34,260 that we need to say enough is enough. 1012 00:46:45,500 --> 00:46:47,540 (THEME MUSIC PLAYS)