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>> GROWING UP ON STATEN ISLAND,
BARBARA AND I HAD OFTEN HEARD
THE LEGEND OF CROPSEY.
FOR THE KIDS IN OUR
NEIGHBORHOOD, CROPSEY WAS THE
ESCAPED MENTAL PATIENT WHO LIVED
IN THE TUNNELS BENEATH THE OLD,
ABANDONED WILLOWBROOK MENTAL
INSTITUTION...
WHO WOULD COME OUT LATE AT NIGHT
AND SNATCH CHILDREN OFF THE
STREETS.
ALTHOUGH WE DIDN'T KNOW EACH
OTHER AS CHILDREN, BARBARA AND I
HAD BOTH SHARED VERSIONS OF THE
CROPSEY LEGEND AS IT FILTERED
THROUGH OUR SEPARATE
NEIGHBORHOODS AND SEEPED INTO
OUR COLLECTIVE FEARS.
SOMETIMES CROPSEY HAD A HOOK FOR
A HAND.
OTHER TIMES HE WIELDED A BLOODY
AX.
BUT IT DIDN'T MATTER.
CROPSEY WAS OUT THERE, LURKING
IN THE SHADOWS, WAITING TO GET
US.
>> WE'RE -- WE'RE GONNA GET HER
BACK.
[ SOBBING ]
>> OKAY.
>> LATER, AS TEENAGERS, WE
ASSUMED CROPSEY WAS JUST AN
URBAN LEGEND, A CAUTIONARY TALE
USED TO KEEP US OUT OF THOSE
BUILDINGS -- TO STOP US FROM
DOING ALL THOSE THINGS THAT
TEENAGERS LIKE TO DO.
BUT ALL THAT CHANGED THE SUMMER
LITTLE JENNIFER DISAPPEARED.
THAT WAS THE SUMMER ALL THE KIDS
FROM STATEN ISLAND DISCOVERED
THAT THEIR URBAN LEGEND...
WAS REAL.
STATEN ISLAND IS ONE OF THE FIVE
BOROUGHS OF NEW YORK CITY.
FOR THE PAST CENTURY, THE ISLAND
WAS MOSTLY JUST FARMLAND AND
WOODS --
THAT WAS, UNTIL THEY BUILT THE
VERRAZANO BRIDGE IN '64.
NOW IT'S HOME TO NEARLY HALF A
MILLION PEOPLE.
>> BEFORE THE VERRAZANO BRIDGE
WAS BUILT, THAT'S ALL IT WAS.
IT WAS JUST THIS ISLAND, THIS
FORGOTTEN ISLAND.
ALL THE CHILDREN OF BROOKLYN,
YOU KNOW, WANTED THEIR OWN HOME,
AND EVERYBODY WANTS LAND.
YOU HAVE A DOG, YOU LET HIM OUT
THE BACKYARD, JUST LIKE, YOU
KNOW, "FATHER KNOWS BEST."
>> IT CAN BE PRETTY QUIET.
I MEAN, EVEN THOUGH MANHATTAN
IS, LIKE, RIGHT ACROSS THE
WATER, IT'S DEFINITELY A
DIFFERENT LIFE OUT HERE.
IF YOU TRAVEL AROUND SOMETIMES,
PEOPLE WOULD SAY, "OH, RIGHT,
THAT'S WHERE THE LARGEST GARBAGE
DUMP WAS.
AND, YOU KNOW, RUMOR HAS IT YOU
COULD SEE IT FROM OUTER SPACE."
SO ONE BIG GARBAGE DUMP.
>> IT WAS THE LEAST-POPULATED,
MOST HEAVILY WOODED BOROUGH.
FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, LIKE,
THIS IS A BIG DUMPING GROUND FOR
MOB BODIES.
SOMEONE NEEDS TO BE DISPOSED OF,
IT'S LIKE, "LET'S BRING THEM TO
STATEN ISLAND."
>> IT'S LIKE THERE'S ALMOST TOO
MANY SPACES TO GO TO TO BE
ISOLATED AND ALONE AND DO
WHATEVER YOU WANT.
SO IF YOU HAVE A BAD IDEA IN
YOUR HEAD, YOU CAN DO IT THERE.
>> ACROSS THE MIDDLE OF THE
ISLAND LIES A SECTION OF ANCIENT
FOREST KNOWN AS THE GREENBELT.
BORDERING THIS FOREST IS A
BOY SCOUT CAMP AND AN OLD
TUBERCULOSIS WARD.
AS KIDS, WE USED TO ROAM AROUND
THESE GROUNDS, TRYING TO SCARE
EACH OTHER WITH STORIES ABOUT
CROPSEY.
>> IS THAT POUCH CAMP OVER
TO THE LEFT?
>> NO, THAT'S JCC CAMP OVER TO
THE LEFT.
AND RIGHT HERE -- THIS IS
SEA VIEW, THE T.B. WARDS.
OUR CAMP COUNSELORS WOULD LEAD
US DOWN THIS PATH, AND THEY'D
COME OUT OF THE BUILDINGS AND
SCARE US.
YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHERE WE
THOUGHT THAT CROPSEY LIVED -- IN
THE BASEMENTS DOWN IN HERE AND
IN THESE OTHER BUILDINGS.
AND, YOU KNOW, WE USED TO WALK
THROUGH HERE, AND YOU'D FIND
BEDS AND PAPERS OF PEOPLE WHO
HAD DIED HERE.
SO, YOU KNOW, IT KIND OF MADE
SENSE TO US.
>> "CROPSEY," FOR SOME REASON,
BECAME THE GENERIC TERM FOR A
MANIAC IN BOY SCOUT CAMPS UP AND
DOWN THE HUDSON RIVER REGION OF
NEW YORK STATE.
SO IT WOULD'VE MADE PERFECT
SENSE FOR A STORY ABOUT A
MANIAC WHO WAS HIDING OUT IN THE
WOODS AND WHO ABDUCTED AND
KILLED LITTLE CHILDREN TO BE
CALLED CROPSEY.
>> FIRST LEARNED ABOUT CROPSEY
IN SUMMER CAMP.
>> HE WAS A DOCTOR.
>> HE WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE A
HOOK.
>> WITH A KNIFE ABOUT THIS BIG.
>> AND HE WAS AN AX-WIELDING
MADMAN.
>> THE WIFE WAS KILLED.
>> HE WAS BEING CHASED OR
TAUNTED.
>> HE WANTED KIDS.
AND HE WOULD FIND THEM AND...
>> HE WOULD HACK YOU UP.
>> ...CHOP 'EM UP.
>> "DON'T GO BEHIND THE SHERWOOD
BUNKS.
CROPSEY'S OUT THERE."
>> "MAKE SURE YOU GET OFF AT THE
MALL.
DON'T CONTINUE TO GO ANY
FURTHER."
>> "DON'T GO DOWN BY THE LAKE AT
NIGHT.
CROPSEY'S DOWN THERE."
>> "NO, DON'T GO NEAR
WILLOWBROOK PARK.
WILLOWBROOK PARK IS DANGEROUS."
>> THERE ARE MANY COMMUNITIES
THAT HAVE A SUBTERRANEAN
HISTORY, A HOUSE WHERE
UNSPEAKABLE THINGS ARE SAID TO
HAVE HAPPENED, AN INSTITUTION
WHERE PEOPLE WERE...
SEGREGATED FROM THE REST OF
SOCIETY.
>> WE GOT PICTURES OF SEA VIEW.
THESE ARE LIKE OVERALL,
BIRD'S-EYE VIEW OF, YOU KNOW,
THE HOSPITAL.
THIS INCLUDED THE TUBERCULOSIS
WARDS.
>> THIS INCLUDED TUBERCULOSIS
WARDS?
>> YES.
AND ALSO ON THIS PROPERTY HERE
WERE A HOSPITAL FOR CONTAGIOUS
DISEASES, AND THEN IT GOT THE
MORGUE AND THE CEMETERY.
WELL, THIS WAS ACROSS THE STREET
IN THE FARM COLONY, WHICH WAS
LIKE A DIFFERENT PART OF THE
HOSPITAL.
THEY CALLED IT THE "POOR FARM."
OKAY, HERE WE HAVE THEOR FARM."
HALLORAN HOSPITAL IN
WILLOWBROOK.
>> RIGHT. IT WAS HALLORAN, AND
THEN IT BECAME THE
WILLOWBROOK STATE SCHOOL.
>> EXACTLY.
>> WILLOWBROOK WAS STRICTLY FOR
THE MENTALLY ILL?
>> YES.
>> BACK IN 1972, THE
WILLOWBROOK STATE SCHOOL WAS THE
SUBJECT OF A FAMOUS EXPOSÃ© BY A
YOUNG REPORTER LOOKING FOR HIS
BIG BREAK.
>> I FIRST HEARD OF THIS BIG
PLACE WITH THE PRETTY-SOUNDING
NAME BECAUSE OF A CALL I
RECEIVED FROM A MEMBER OF THE
WILLOWBROOK STAFF, A
DR. MICHAEL WILKINS.
THE DOCTOR INVITED ME TO SEE
THE CONDITIONS HE WAS TALKING
ABOUT, SO UNANNOUNCED AND
UNEXPECTED BY THE SCHOOL
ADMINISTRATION, WE TOURED
BUILDING NUMBER SIX.
THE DOCTOR HAD WARNED ME THAT IT
WOULD BE BAD.
IT WAS HORRIBLE.
THERE WAS ONE ATTENDANT FOR
PERHAPS 50 SEVERELY AND
PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHILDREN.
LYING ON THE FLOOR NAKED AND
SMEARED WITH THEIR OWN FECES,
THEY WERE MAKING A PITIFUL
SOUND, A KIND OF MOURNFUL WAIL
THAT IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO
FORGET.
THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE.
THIS IS WHAT IT SOUNDED LIKE.
BUT HOW CAN I TELL YOU ABOUT THE
WAY IT SMELLED?
IT SMELLED OF FILTH, IT SMELLED
OF DISEASE, AND IT SMELLED OF
DEATH.
>> DESPITE GERALDO'S REPORT, IT
STILL TOOK MORE THAN 10 YEARS
BEFORE AUTHORITIES BEGAN
SHUTTING DOWN WILLOWBROOK.
MANY PATIENTS WERE TRANSFERRED
TO GROUP HOMES, BUT OTHERS WERE
LEFT TO FEND FOR THEMSELVES.
THERE ARE THOSE WHO BELIEVE THAT
SOME PATIENTS, OUT OF CONFUSION
AND HABIT, RETURNED TO THE 365
ACRES OF WILLOWBROOK TO ROAM THE
ABANDONED BUILDINGS AND LIVE IN
THE TUNNEL SYSTEM THAT LAY
UNDERNEATH.
OUT OF THIS, OUR OWN VERSION OF
THE CROPSEY LEGEND WAS BORN.
>> AT WHAT POINT, THOUGH, IN
YOUR LIFE DID YOU START TO
REALIZE, "HEY, MAYBE CROPSEY IS
REAL?"
>> WHEN KIDS STARTED
DISAPPEARING FROM STATEN ISLAND.
>> YOU'RE WATCHING CHANNEL 7,
EYEWITNESS NEWS.
>> HI, GUYS. LISTEN.
WE NEED ALL THE HELP WE CAN TO
HELP FIND JENNIFER.
>> THE RELENTLESS SEARCH FOR A
12-YEAR-OLD GIRL WITH DOWN
SYNDROME CONTINUES TODAY AS IT
HAS FOR THE LAST THREE WEEKS,
WITH THE HOPE THAT THIS WILL BE
THE DAY THEY FIND
JENNIFER SCHWEIGER.
>> SHE'S VERY FRIENDLY, VERY
HAPPY.
SHE'S A DOLL.
VERY LOVING.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S A DOWN SYNDROME
CHILD'S NATURE.
>> INSTEAD OF LYING IN THE SUN
TODAY, I FIGURED I'D COME OUT
AND JUST HELP.
>> COULD BE ONE OF OUR OWN
CHILDREN, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS
KIDNAPPED OR, YOU KNOW, MOLESTED
ANYWAYS.
>> MAYBE IT'S JENNIFER'S ADDED
VULNERABILITY OF HAVING DOWN
SYNDROME OR POSSIBLY THE
CLOSE-KNIT FEELINGS OF
STATEN ISLANDERS AT HAVING ONE
OF THEIR CHILDREN MISSING, BUT
EVERY DAY, MORE AND MORE
VOLUNTEERS TURN OUT, SEARCHING
THROUGH THE WOODS AND HITTING
THE STREETS, HOPING TO PUT AN
END TO THE SCHWEIGER FAMILY
ORDEAL.
SO MANY PEOPLE TURNED OUT FOR
THIS SEARCH.
EVERYBODY FELT THAT...
THIS WAS ONE OF THEIR OWN THAT
HAD DISAPPEARED.
THEY WOULD SHOW UP AT THE
FIREHOUSE WITH FLASHLIGHTS,
READY TO GO INTO WILLOWBROOK,
WILLING TO GO INTO THE FOREST,
INTO THE TUNNELS UNDERNEATH.
THERE WAS ONE FAMILY IN
PARTICULAR, DONNA CUTUGNO, AND
SOME OF HER FRIENDS AND
NEIGHBORS WHO HAD STEPPED
FORWARD TO ORGANIZE SEARCHES.
>> TODAY, WE'RE CONCENTRATING ON
WILLOWBROOK PARK.
THE POLICE WENT IN THERE
YESTERDAY, AND WE'RE JUST
CONTINUING WHERE THE POLICE LEFT
OFF.
THIS IS WHAT WILLOWBROOK LOOKED
LIKE WHEN WE WERE IN HERE.
I'LL NEVER FORGET THE FIRST TIME
I WENT INTO ONE OF THESE
BUILDINGS.
IT WAS REALLY BLOOD-CURDLING,
BECAUSE HERE WAS THE FIRST TIME
I WAS ACTUALLY IN THESE
BUILDINGS I HEARD THESE HORRIBLE
STORIES ABOUT.
AND AS YOU WALK THROUGH,
COMPLETELY EMPTY.
YOU STILL HEAR, YOU FEEL IT.
YOU COULD ALMOST FEEL THE
CHILDREN'S PRESENCE THERE OR
THE ADULTS' PRESENCE THERE.
AND IT'S SOMETHING YOU NEVER GET
USED TO.
WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING, MAKE SURE
YOU LOOK DOWN ON THE GROUND.
LOOK UP IN THE TREES.
ANYTHING YOU FIND, THE POLICE
CAN GET A LOT OF INFORMATION
FROM IT.
IN OUR SEARCHING, WHAT WE FOUND
WAS A NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT
ACTUALLY LIVED HERE WHEN
WILLOWBROOK WAS UP AND RUNNING
AND IN FULL SWING TEND TO COME
BACK HERE.
SO THERE WAS A WHOLE...
UNDERGROUND OF PEOPLE THAT STILL
LIVED HERE, EVEN THOUGH ALL THE
BUILDINGS WERE CLOSED, AND
ANDRE RAND WAS DEFINITELY
ONE OF THEM.
>> ANDRE RAND WORKED AS AN
ORDERLY AT THE
WILLOWBROOK STATE SCHOOL FROM
1966 TO 1968.
FOR YEARS HE LIVED IN NUMEROUS
MAKESHIFT CAMPSITES IN THE WOODS
SURROUNDING WILLOWBROOK.
HE WAS ALSO THE LEAD SUSPECT IN
THE JENNIFER SCHWEIGER CASE.
>> THERE WAS TWO WITNESSES THAT
STATED THAT THEY SAW HER WALKING
ALONG THE STREET WITH A
MIDDLE-AGED GENTLEMAN, AND HE
HAD A FEMALE GREEN BIKE WITH A
BASKET ON THE FRONT OF IT.
THE WEEK BEFORE, I WAS IN
ShopRite, AND I SAW RAND.
I RECOGNIZED HIM FROM A PRIOR
CASE.
HE PURCHASED BABY FOOD, AND HE
GOT ON A GREEN FEMALE BIKE WITH
A BASKET ON THE FRONT.
AT THAT POINT, BAM, I SAID,
"IT'S ANDRE.
I SAW HIM LAST WEEK."
>> RAND WAS IMMEDIATELY BROUGHT
IN AND QUESTIONED IN THE GIRL'S
DISAPPEARANCE BUT RELEASED FOR
LACK OF EVIDENCE.
AFTER FOUR WEEKS OF SURVEILLANCE
IN HOPES OF FINDING JENNIFER
ALIVE, HE WAS ARRESTED.
RAND HAD BEEN FAMILIAR TO POLICE
AFTER PLEADING GUILTY TO SEXUAL
MISCONDUCT WITH A 9-YEAR-OLD
GIRL BACK IN 1969 -- A CRIME
WHICH HE DENIED.
>> GOOD AFTERNOON.
HERE'S WHAT'S HAPPENING.
A HOMELESS MAN, 43-YEAR-OLD
ANDRE RAND, IS UNDER ARREST.
HE IS CHARGED WITH THE
KIDNAPPING OF 12-YEAR-OLD
JENNIFER SCHWEIGER.
THE SUSPECT WAS PICKED UP LAST
NIGHT HERE AT THE
CHURCH OF THE GOD WITHIN.
POLICE HAD QUESTIONED HIM AS
EARLY AS THE SECOND DAY INTO THE
INVESTIGATION, AND AFTER FOUR
WEEKS OF A MAKING A CASE AGAINST
THE MAN, THEY FINALLY DECIDED
THEY HAD ENOUGH TO GET A
CONVICTION.
I'VE NEVER SEEN A PERP WALK LIKE
THAT.
WATCHING HIM COMING OUT LOOKING
LIKE HE HAD LOST HIS MIND
FURTHER ANGERED PEOPLE IN THE
COMMUNITY.
THAT IMAGE FORCED A LOT OF
PEOPLE TO SAY, "THAT IS THE
KILLER.
THAT MAN IS NOT RIGHT.
LOOK AT HIM THERE, DROOLING."
AND IT CERTAINLY CAUSED ME TO
ASK A LOT OF QUESTIONS.
WHO IS ANDRE RAND?
DID THEY GET A CRAZY MAN AND
JUST SAY HE'S THE GUY, OR DID
THEY REALLY HAVE GOOD EVIDENCE
AGAINST HIM THAT WOULD STICK IN
A COURT?
>> I USED TO TEACH THE
ANDRE RAND STORY IN MY
JOURNALISM CLASS.
COMING DOWN THE STEPS OF THE
COURTHOUSE WITH A HEADLINE,
"DRIFTER ARRESTED."
WELL, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
IT MEANS GUILTY, RIGHT?
WHETHER HE IS OR NOT, I DON'T
KNOW THE WHOLE STORY EITHER.
BUT IT'S A LOT EASIER TO DO IT
THAT WAY THAN TO SAY, "YOU KNOW
WHAT?
IT MIGHT BE SOMEBODY ON YOUR
BLOCK."
[ CHUCKLES ]
"IT MIGHT BE SOMEBODY YOU WORK
WITH."
>> DID YOU EVER THINK THAT
ANYBODY ELSE WAS INVOLVED?
>> WELL, WE ALWAYS HAD TO THINK
THERE WAS SOMEBODY ELSE UNTIL WE
COULD JUST RULE IT OUT.
YOU KNOW, YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO
KEEP THAT IN THE BACK OF YOUR
MIND.
>> AND PLUS, BY GOING BY OUR
WITNESSES, IF YOU CONSIDER OUR
WITNESSES CREDIBLE, IT WAS ONLY
ANDRE AND JENNIFER.
THERE WAS NO OTHER PERSON.
>> OF COURSE, WHEN WE HAD HIM
FOR THE 26 HOURS, WHERE WAS SHE?
DID HE LEAVE HER WITH SOMEBODY
ELSE?
>> WITH RAND'S ARREST, THE
SEARCH FOR JENNIFER TURNED
DESPERATE.
RUMORS WERE SPREADING THAT
SOMEONE, MAYBE EVEN ONE OF
RAND'S FRIENDS, WAS HIDING
JENNIFER AND MOVING HER LATE AT
NIGHT THROUGH THE TUNNELS
UNDERNEATH WILLOWBROOK.
>> I WANT MY DAUGHTER.
I WANT THE MAN TO TALK.
I WANT HIM JUST TO TELL US WHERE
JENNIFER IS.
>> DESPITE CONSTANT THREATS BY
STATE OFFICIALS TO STAY AWAY
FROM WILLOWBROOK, DONNA AND THE
FRIENDS OF JENNIFER KEPT GOING
BACK.
>> THIS AREA HAD BEEN COVERED
THOUSANDS OF TIMES BY
VOLUNTEERS, BY POLICE, BY DOGS.
BUT IN THAT TIME, ONE GENTLEMAN
CAME ACROSS AN AREA THAT HE
NOTICED HAD CLAY BALLS UP ON
TOP, LIKE SOMEONE PATTED DOWN.
AND THEN THIS WAS ALL, YOU KNOW,
PUSHED BACK OVER WITH THE TREES.
IT WAS JUST A LITTLE SPOT THAT
HE NOTICED THE CLAY BALLS.
AND THAT'S WHAT MADE US GO BACK,
OR MADE HIM INSIST THAT WE GO
BACK.
AND GEORGE SHOWED US THE
LOCATION THAT HE THOUGHT...
NEEDED TO BE LOOKED AT.
THE SMELL -- AS SOON AS YOU
START DIGGING...
WE SAW HER TOES.
AND EVERYBODY STOPPED.
FATHER HENRY GAVE HER LAST
RITES.
AND THEY TOOK US OUT OF THE
WOODS.
>> ERNIE, A GRISLY DISCOVERY
BACK HERE TONIGHT, BACK HERE IN
THE 384 ACRES OF THE
STATEN ISLAND DEVELOPMENTAL
CENTER -- AN ARM AND A LEG
STICKING OUT FROM A SHALLOW
GRAVE.
THEY ARE EERIE SHADOWS, POLICE
AND OTHERS AT THE SCENE WHERE
THE BODY OF 12-YEAR-OLD
JENNIFER LYNN SCHWEIGER TONIGHT
WAS FOUND.
POLICE WERE PREVENTING ANYONE
FROM GETTING THIS CLOSE TO THE
SCENE.
EVEN JENNIFER'S FATHER IS KEPT
AWAY.
>> YEAH, JENNIFER'S FATHER'S
HERE.
HE SAYS YOU GAVE HIM PERMISSION
TO COME THROUGH?
>> UNLESS THEY CAN WALK ON
WATER, THEY STAY OUTSIDE.
>> THERE ARE TWO OTHER GIRLS
WHO, OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF
YEARS, HAVE TURNED UP MISSING
HERE ON STATEN ISLAND.
THEY WILL BE SEARCHING THIS AREA
IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS TO SEE WHAT
THEY CAN FIND.
AS ONE POLICE OFFICER TOLD US
TONIGHT, GOD KNOWS WHAT THEY
CAN FIND HERE.
>> THE DISCOVERY OF JENNIFER'S
BODY ONLY 150 YARDS FROM RAND'S
CAMPSITE CONFIRMED EVERYONE'S
WORST NIGHTMARE.
RESIDENTS WERE OUTRAGED, AND
THEY WANTED JUSTICE.
THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY, HOWEVER,
HAD NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE TYING
RAND WITH JENNIFER'S
DISAPPEARANCE.
THE CASE WAS RELYING ALMOST
ENTIRELY ON EYEWITNESS
TESTIMONY, WHICH MOST EXPERTS
AGREE IS OFTEN UNRELIABLE.
AFTER THE LARGEST CRIMINAL TRIAL
IN STATEN ISLAND HISTORY, RAND
WAS CONVICTED OF KIDNAPPING.
BUT THE MURDER CHARGE WAS
DISMISSED AFTER JURORS COULDN'T
REACH A VERDICT.
RAND WAS SENTENCED 25 YEARS TO
LIFE AND WOULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR
PAROLE IN 2008.
>> STATEN ISLANDERS LIKE TO FIND
EASY SCAPEGOATS, BUT NOT THE
REAL ONES.
AND WE DON'T WANT TO THINK TOO
DEEPLY ABOUT WHAT THIS MEANS FOR
OUR SOCIETY.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT A PLACE LIKE
STATEN ISLAND, IT WAS VIEWED AS
A DUMPING GROUND FOR ALL KINDS
OF THINGS.
THE FRESH KILLS LANDFILL, WHICH
TOOK ALL THE CITY'S GARBAGE,
8 MILLION PEOPLE'S GARBAGE,
DUMPED IN STATEN ISLAND.
THE FARM COLONY WAS A PLACE
WHERE PEOPLE WENT WHO HAD
TUBERCULOSIS.
WILLOWBROOK WAREHOUSED THOUSANDS
OF PEOPLE AND LEFT THEM THERE.
IT WAS A DUMPING GROUND.
WHY WOULD YOU DUMP THEM IN
STATEN ISLAND?
'CAUSE THAT'S WHERE YOU DUMP
THINGS.
SO YOU DUMP KIDS.
WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?
YOU'RE DUMPING GARBAGE, YOU'RE
DUMPING KIDS TO STATEN ISLAND.
DOESN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE,
RIGHT?
>> LOOK.
TRAYS FROM THE INSTITUTION.
>> THEY'RE EVERYWHERE.
IT'S MORE ABOUT THE UNDERCURRENT
THAT CANNOT BE TAMED BY BUILDING
OR ORGANIZATION.
YOU PUT A BUNCH OF PEOPLE THAT
ARE MENTALLY ILL, AND YOU PUT A
BUNCH OF PEOPLE THAT ARE
PHYSICALLY ILL, AND YOU BURY
PEOPLE HERE AND THERE, AND YOU
DUMP GARBAGE, AND YOU POISON THE
ENVIRONMENT.
AND THEN YOU SIT AROUND, AND YOU
SCRATCH YOUR HEAD, AND YOU
WONDER, "GEE, WHY ARE THINGS
GOING WRONG?"
OR, "WHY IS THERE A CHILL CAST
OVER THIS STATEN ISLAND, THIS
WONDERFUL PLACE?"
BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT THOSE
UNDERCURRENTS, THOSE THINGS THAT
HAD COME BEFORE.
>> AS CHILDREN, WE WERE DELUDED
BY OUR PARENTS' BELIEF THAT
STATEN ISLAND WAS SUCH A SAFE
PLACE TO GROW UP.
BUT IN REALITY, EVERY COMMUNITY
HAS A SEEDY UNDERSIDE.
EVERY SUBURBIA HAS ITS SECRETS.
WE ONLY DISCOVERED OUR OWN
BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED WITH
JENNIFER...
AND THEN WITH ALL THE OTHER
CHILDREN.
AFTER DONNA CUTUGNO AND HER TEAM
FOUND THE BODY OF
JENNIFER SCHWEIGER, THE POLICE
STARTED CONNECTING THE DOTS.
THEY LOOKED AT OTHER MISSING
CHILDREN FROM STATEN ISLAND.
EVENTUALLY, THEY FOCUSED IN ON
FOUR DIFFERENT CASES SPANNING
OVER 15 YEARS --
TIAHEASE JACKSON, A 10-YEAR-OLD
GIRL WITH LEARNING DISABILITIES
WHO DISAPPEARED FOUR YEARS
BEFORE JENNIFER.
HANK GAFFORIO, 21 BUT WITH THE
I.Q. OF A 15-YEAR-OLD,
DISAPPEARED THREE YEARS BEFORE
JENNIFER.
7-YEAR-OLD HOLLY ANN HUGHES, WHO
WENT MISSING SIX YEARS BEFORE
JENNIFER.
AND FINALLY ALICE PEREIRA, LAST
SEEN 1972, 15 YEARS BEFORE
JENNIFER.
TO THIS DAY, NONE OF THEIR
BODIES HAVE EVER BEEN FOUND.
>> THEY ARE MISSING-PERSON CASES
THAT HAVE OCCURRED ON
STATEN ISLAND THAT HAVE NOT BEEN
RESOLVED.
>> AS KIDS, WE NEVER THOUGHT
WE'D LEARN THE REAL STORY BEHIND
CROPSEY.
INSTEAD, RAND WAS SENT TO
PRISON, AND THE STORIES JUST
FADED AWAY.
BUT NOW, 20 YEARS LATER, WE MAY
GET THE CHANCE TO UNCOVER THE
TRUTH BEHIND OUR URBAN LEGEND.
BECAUSE ANDRE RAND...
IS BACK.
>> ANDRE RAND SCARED A
GENERATION OF PARENTS AND
CHILDREN ON STATEN ISLAND.
CONVICTED IN THE DISAPPEARANCE
OF ONE CHILD IN THE 1980s, HE IS
ONCE AGAIN ON TRIAL FOR
KIDNAPPING.
AFTER SPENDING 17 YEARS IN
PRISON, ANDRE RAND HAS RETURNED
TO STATEN ISLAND TO STAND TRIAL
FOR THE KIDNAPPING OF
7-YEAR-OLD HOLLY ANN HUGHES, WHO
DISAPPEARED TWO DECADES EARLIER.
HER BODY HAS NEVER BEEN FOUND.
>> CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU EVER
MET HOLLY ANN HUGHES?
ANY COMMENT WHATSOEVER, PLEASE.
>> I LOVE MY SISTER VERY MUCH.
IT'S BEEN 20 YEARS.
[ Voice breaking ] SOMETHING
I'VE HAD TO CARRY FOR AN
INCREDIBLY LONG TIME.
AND I MISS HER SO MUCH.
>> YOU KNOW, IT'S, LIKE, NICE TO
SEE THAT FINALLY SHE'S BEING
TREATED LIKE SHE'S A PERSON AND
NOT LIKE A LOST WALLET, YOU
KNOW?
THAT'S PRETTY MUCH LIKE HOW IT'S
BEEN FOR LIKE THE LAST 20 YEARS.
>> STATEN ISLAND TONIGHT, THE
STORY OF ANOTHER MISSING CHILD.
7-YEAR-OLD HOLLY HUGHES
DISAPPEARED ON WEDNESDAY.
SO FAR, NO ONE HAS ANY IDEA WHAT
MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED TO HER.
>> SHE'S VERY OUTGOING, VERY
FRIENDLY.
VERY ADORABLE, I THINK, YOU
KNOW.
>> WE JUST WANT YOU TO BRING
HOLLY HOME...TODAY.
[ Voice breaking ] AND WE'RE --
WE'RE LOOKING FOR HER, AND WE'RE
GOING TO GET HER BACK.
[ SOBBING ]
>> OKAY.
>> THIS IS EDDIE, HOLLY ANN, AND
SEAN.
SHE WAS A VERY WARM LITTLE GIRL.
TYPICAL 7-YEAR-OLD.
YOU KNOW, I MEAN, CUTE AS A
BUTTON.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S PROBABLY ONE OF
THE LAST THINGS THAT YOU EVER
THINK ABOUT THAT COULD POSSIBLY
HAPPEN, THAT SOMEBODY WOULD TAKE
YOUR DAUGHTER.
>> THE MOTHER AND I WEREN'T
CONVERSING AT THE TIME IN A
PROPER WAY BECAUSE WE WERE
HAVING A LITTLE CUSTODY PROBLEM
THERE DURING THAT SEPARATION
PERIOD.
I REMEMBER JUST SEARCHING ALL
NIGHT LONG.
I MEAN EVERYWHERE -- THE TRAIN
TRESTLE, PARK AVENUE -- ANYWHERE
I COULD POSSIBLY THINK OF WHERE
SHE MIGHT BE.
I WAS GETTING VERY STRANGE PHONE
CALLS FROM ANONYMOUS PEOPLE THAT
THEY KNEW WHERE HOLLY ANN WAS.
JUST CRAZY THINGS, YOU KNOW?
UNBELIEVABLE THINGS.
>> BUT NO ONE EVER MENTIONED
ANDRE RAND?
>> NO.
>> RAND WAS INTERVIEWED AND
RELEASED BACK IN 1981 AFTER
BEING SPOTTED ON HOLLY ANN'S
STREET THE DAY SHE DISAPPEARED.
NOW, 20 YEARS LATER, THE D.A.
FINALLY BELIEVES HE HAS ENOUGH
EVIDENCE TO GET A CONVICTION.
HOWEVER, THERE IS ANOTHER ISSUE
THAT CONCERNS LOCAL RESIDENTS.
RAND WILL BE UP FOR PAROLE IN
LESS THAN FOUR YEARS, WHICH
MEANS HE MAY WALK THE STREETS
ONCE AGAIN.
>> WE ARE HERE TODAY IN SUPPORT
FOR HOLLY ANN HUGHES' FAMILY.
THE COMMON THREAD THAT WE SHARE
WITH THE FAMILY IS ANDRE RAND,
THE ALLEGED...
BAD GUY.
>> DOES IT MAKE YOU ANGRY THAT
THIS GUY HAS BEEN OUT THERE
SINCE HOLLY ANN'S DISAPPEARANCE,
AND THEN YOUR DAUGHTER WAS
TAKEN?
>> I THINK THAT IN REALITY,
JENNIFER WAS THE ONE THAT
PROBABLY BROUGHT THIS ALL TO
LIFE FOR THE SIMPLE REASON SHE
WAS FOUND, NUMBER ONE, AND IT
OPENED THE CASE FOR
HOLLY ANN HUGHES.
>> CASES LIKE THIS NEVER GO
AWAY.
IT'S LIKE THE WHOLE COMMUNITY
WAS JUST THROWN INTO CHAOS OVER
THIS.
YOU KNOW, HERE'S THIS GUY,
ALLEGEDLY, GOING AROUND, PICKING
OFF THESE KIDS.
I MEAN, THERE ARE ALL THESE
RUMORS THAT FLY ABOUT THE ISLAND
ABOUT THIS GUY, AND THE MEDIA,
YOU KNOW, HAVE PAINTED HIM AS AN
ABSOLUTE FUCKING MONSTER.
AND HE MAY VERY WELL BE.
THERE'S NO PHYSICAL OR
SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE THAT I KNOW
OF IN THIS CASE.
THERE'S NO BODY.
THEY HAVEN'T FOUND HER.
IT'S ALL CIRCUMSTANTIAL.
>> THEY'VE GONE.
THEY'VE DUG UP GRAVES.
THEY'VE GONE TO HIS OLD
NEIGHBORHOOD.
THEY SEARCHED HIS CAR.
THERE'S NOTHING THAT'S COME UP.
SO I'M COMPLETELY CONFIDENT
THAT, YOU KNOW, HE DIDN'T DO
THIS.
>> SO WHY DO YOU THINK THE D.A.
IS PURSUING THIS CASE?
>> MR. MURPHY JUST RECENTLY
RETIRED.
THIS WAS ONE OF HIS PROBABLY
LAST, BIGGEST INVESTIGATIONS,
THIS RAND CASE, AND PERHAPS HE
WANTED TO PUT THIS BABY TO REST
BEFORE HE LEFT OFFICE.
>> I REMEMBER THE INADEQUACIES
OF THE WITNESS' STATEMENTS BACK
IN 1981 AND 1982.
SOME OF THEM WERE OUT-AND-OUT
ALCOHOLICS WHO JUST DIDN'T HAVE
CLEAR RECOLLECTIONS OF WHAT WAS
GOING ON FROM DAY TO DAY, BUT IN
RECOVERY, THEIR MEMORIES WERE
IMPROVED.
THAT THE ANDRE RAND STORY IS
BEING TOLD IS SIMPLY AN EXAMPLE
OF WHAT CAN BE DONE IF PEOPLE
REMAIN VIGILANT, REMAIN
CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON
AROUND THEM.
>> 15 YEARS AFTER UNCOVERING THE
BODY OF JENNIFER SCHWEIGER,
DONNA CUTUGNO STILL DIGS AROUND
THE GROUNDS OF THE OLD
WILLOWBROOK STATE SCHOOL, HOPING
TO FIND EVIDENCE OF THE OTHER
CHILDREN.
SO, WHO DO YOU THINK WE'RE
LOOKING FOR?
>> WE'RE LOOKING FOR HOLLY AND
ALICE AND THE REST OF THE
CHILDREN.
>> DO YOU THINK THEY'RE ALL
BURIED HERE?
>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT
ALICE.
I DON'T REALLY FEEL THAT SHE'S
HERE.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE SHE WOULD BE.
BUT I THINK THAT...
THE REST OF THEM, INCLUDING
HANK, I THINK MAY BE HERE.
YEAH.
I CAN IMAGINE HOW OTHER
PARENTS -- EVEN IF YOUR KID'S
GONE FOR AN HOUR, I CAN IMAGINE
HOW THEY MUST FEEL, YOU KNOW,
NOT KNOWING.
GOES BACK TO THAT ORIGINAL
FEELING.
COULD'VE BEEN MY CHILDREN.
THEY'RE THE MOST PRECIOUS THING
IN MY LIFE, AND NO ONE'S GONNA
TAKE MY KIDS AWAY FROM ME.
>> HI.
YEAH, THIS IS DEVIN'S ROOM.
HE LOVES "STAR WARS" AND
WORSHIPS GEORGE LUCAS.
>> A LOT OF REASONS WHY MY
CHILDREN WERE ALWAYS INVOLVED IN
THESE THINGS WAS 'CAUSE I WAS SO
AFRAID TO LEAVE THEM.
[ LAUGHS ]
THE WHOLE RAND THING.
SUPPOSE HE GOT OUT ON A
TECHNICALITY.
WOULD HE COME AFTER ME?
YOU KNOW, THAT'S ALWAYS IN THE
BACK OF MY MIND, TILL THIS DAY.
>> FOR YEARS, RAND HAD BEEN
SHUFFLED AROUND VARIOUS NEW YORK
STATE PRISONS, WHERE HE SHARED
CELLBLOCKS WITH THE LIKES OF
DAVID BERKOWITZ, A.K.A.
SON OF SAM, AND CHILD KILLER
JOEL STEINBERG.
IN THE PAST FEW WEEKS, HE HAD
BEEN MOVED TO RIKERS ISLAND FOR
THE UPCOMING TRIAL.
WE HAD SENT HIM LETTERS TRYING
TO ARRANGE AN INTERVIEW BUT GOT
NO RESPONSE.
THEN ON THE DAY BARB AND I
DECIDED TO VISIT HIM
UNANNOUNCED, WE RECEIVED THIS
LETTER.
WHAT DO YOU THINK IT SAYS?
>> HE DOESN'T REALLY SPEAK TO
ANYONE OTHER THAN HIS ATTORNEY,
AND FOR YEARS HE HASN'T SPOKEN
TO THE PRESS.
NOBODY REALLY KNOWS ANYTHING
ABOUT HIM.
HE PUTS OUR PHONE NUMBER AT THE
TOP, AND HE WRITES, "PERSON
ANSWERING THE CALL SHOULD BE
'JOSHUA.'
IF YOU WANT TO RECEIVE BULK
MAILINGS FROM MR. RAND OVER THE
NEXT FEW MONTHS, IT WILL NEED TO
BE DONE BY SENDING RAND A LEGAL
MAILING ADDRESS.
THIS IS NOT SO MUCH AS
CORRESPONDENCE, BUT MORE IN THE
FORM OF DOCUMENTATION.
NOTE, RAND WAS INFORMED BY HIS
ATTORNEY TO ACCEPT ONLY LEGAL
VISITS.
RAND WILL NOT SPEAK TO YOU IN
PERSON ANYTIME SOON BECAUSE OF
POSSIBLE SUBPOENA."
WHAT HE'S SAYING IS, "I'LL
COMMUNICATE WITH YOU, AS LONG AS
WE PLAY BY THE RULES."
[ POLICE RADIO CHATTER ]
>> UNLIKE MANY OTHER STATES,
NEW YORK DOESN'T ALLOW CAMERAS
IN THE COURTROOM, AND SO WE
WOULD BE FORCED TO INTERVIEW
MANY WITNESSES OUT ON THE STREET
OR GET OUR INFORMATION
SECONDHAND.
>> 17 YEARS, WE NEVER STOPPED
TALKING ABOUT IT.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S AFFECTED
EVERYBODY THAT I KNOW FROM
STATEN ISLAND, CERTAINLY.
>> EVERYBODY KNEW ABOUT
ANDRE RAND.
>> BUT NOT THE EXTENT.
IN THE BACK OF THEIR MINDS, THEY
DIDN'T REALLY THINK THEY WERE
EVER GONNA CATCH HIM.
>> THERE'S NO REASON FOR HIM TO
EXIST ANYWHERE ELSE, YOU KNOW,
OTHER THAN JAIL.
>> THERE'S THAT GIGANTIC FEAR,
YOU KNOW, WONDERING WHETHER OR
NOT THE BOGEYMAN IS GONNA COME
GET THEIR KIDS.
>> SO, THIS BUILDING IS WHERE
HOLLY ANN HUGHES USED TO LIVE.
ANDRE RAND'S AUNT USED TO LIVE
ON THE SECOND FLOOR OF THAT
BUILDING, AS WELL.
HOLLY WAS OUTSIDE PLAYING ONE
EVENING, AND ANDRE RAND WAS HERE
TO VISIT.
>> AND THEN GOT INTO HIS
VOLKSWAGEN.
APPARENTLY THEN HOLLY WALKED
DOWN THIS STREET TO...
>> THAT DELI RIGHT DOWN THERE.
>> HOLLY WAS LAST SEEN AT THIS
DELI, JUST DOWN THE STREET FROM
HER HOME.
A CLERK SAYS SHE CAME IN AT 9:30
WEDNESDAY NIGHT WITH 27 CENTS
AND BOUGHT A BAR OF SOAP.
>> SHE'S A QUIET GIRL, YOU KNOW?
SHE DIDN'T SAY NOTHING TO
NOBODY.
AND SHE JUST GOT HER THING AND
LEFT.
I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT
HAPPENED AFTER THAT.
I WORKED IN THE DELI THERE.
GIRL COMES IN.
>> WHO? HOLLY ANN HUGHES?
>> HOLLY ANN. YEAH.
>> SHE CAME IN. WHEN WAS THIS?
THIS WAS IN 1981.
>> 1981.
SHE WENT TO BUY A BAR OF SOAP.
THE BAR OF SOAP WAS 31 CENTS.
WHY DO I REMEMBER?
BECAUSE SHE WAS SHORT FOUR
CENTS.
AND THE OLD MAN WORKING BEHIND
THE COUNTER, HE WOULDN'T GIVE IT
TO HER.
THAT'S WHY I REMEMBER.
WHEN I SEEN HIS PICTURE, I SAID,
"YEAH, I'VE SEEN THAT GUY
BEFORE.
YOU KNOW, HE'S LIKE A QUIET GUY
TO HIMSELF.
HE DON'T LOOK RIGHT."
LIKE I THINK HE TALKED WITH A
SPEECH IMPEDIMENT, BUT I'M NOT
SURE.
>> AND DID ANYBODY ELSE EVER
DISAPPEAR FROM THAT
NEIGHBORHOOD?
>> YEAH. HANK GAFFORIO.
LOOKED JUST LIKE MICK JAGGER.
DISAPPEARED FROM THAT
NEIGHBORHOOD.
>> HOW LONG AFTERWARDS?
>> THE SAME TIME.
HE WAS A LITTLE SLOW -- HANK.
HIS BROTHER SWEARS THAT
ANDRE RAND KILLED HIM.
>> THEY CAME TO ME ALL THOSE
YEARS AGO.
BUT THAT WAS 18 YEARS AGO.
AND THEY SAID, "WE NEED SOME
HELP."
>> HE WAS SUPPOSEDLY AT THE
DINER AT LIKE 3:00, 4:00 IN THE
MORNING WITH RAND.
A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE CAME
FORWARD -- A HANDFUL -- HANDFUL.
AND, AGAIN, HE WAS OLDER.
YOU KNOW, THAT HAD A LOT TO DO
WITH IT.
HE WAS 21.
>> WE WERE WATCHING THIS
REPORTER STANDING IN FRONT OF
HOLLY ANN HUGHES' HOUSE, AND
RIGHT OFF HER SHOULDER IS
HANK GAFFORIO.
>> IT'D BE FUNNY TO SEE HIM POP
UP IN ONE OF THESE.
>> WE JUST WANT YOU TO BRING
HOLLY HOME.
[ SOBBING ]
>> THE TWO DAYS SINCE HOLLY ANN
DISAPPEARED...
>> THERE. THAT'S HANK GAFFORIO.
>> RIGHT THERE?
>> YEAH.
>> THAT NUMBER AGAIN, 987-7935.
>> TOO MANY COINCIDENCES, YOU
KNOW?
AND LIKE I SAID, BEFORE I DIE,
I WOULD LOVE THIS GUY TO JUST
TALK TO ME, JUST ONCE.
AND ALL HE'S GOT TO DO IS JUST
GIVE SOMEBODY A NOTE AND SAY,
"THIS IS WHERE THEY'RE BURIED."
THAT'S ALL.
>> HE SENT US, I THINK, I GUESS
THE VIEW FROM HIS WINDOW.
THIS IS THE DECISION AND ORDER
FROM THE JUDGE...
>> IN THE CASE OF
JENNIFER SCHWEIGER?
>> NO, NO, NO.
THIS IS IN THE CASE OF
HOLLY ANN.
>> SO HE'S BASICALLY RESPONDING
TO EACH OF THE WITNESSES IN THE
LAST PRETRIAL HEARINGS.
>> TESTIMONY, RIGHT.
IT SAYS, "DETECTIVE LOTITO ASKED
THE DEFENDANT IF HE NOTICED
ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT
HOLLY ANN HUGHES AT THE TIME.
THE DEFENDANT SAID, 'SHE WAS
VERY, VERY DIRTY.
HER LEGS WERE DIRTY.
HER HANDS WERE DIRTY.'
HE GAVE HER MONEY AND SENT HER
TO THE GROCERY STORE TO BUY A
BAR OF SOAP.
THE COURT HERE IS CONTINUOUSLY
QUOTING THE DETECTIVES' OWN
INVENTED STATEMENTS.
THE DEFENDANT NEVER MET OR SAW
HUGHES AT ANY TIME, NOR DID THE
DEFENDANT ADMIT THESE THINGS."
THE ONLY WITNESS TODAY WAS
ELSIE CASTRO.
SHE LIVED ACROSS THE STREET FROM
WHERE HOLLY ANN LIVED.
SHE SAYS ON HER SIDE OF THE
STREET, BUT ONE HOUSE UP,
THERE'S A GREEN VOLKSWAGEN.
SHE DOESN'T SEE ANYBODY IN THE
GREEN VOLKSWAGEN.
SHE GOES INTO THE HOUSE.
SHE GOES TO TAKE A SHOWER AND
DISCOVERS THAT THERE'S NO SOAP.
>> LARRY INTERVIEWED
ELSIE CASTRO.
SHE SAW NOTHING.
BUT SHE CLAIMS SHE BOUGHT A
BAR OF SOAP AT THE STORE AND WAS
FIVE CENTS SHORT.
>> IT'S VERY COINCIDENTAL THAT
SHE WAS A NICKEL SHORT WHEN
HOLLY ANN WAS REPORTEDLY A
NICKEL SHORT, AS WELL, ALL
WITHIN THE TIME SPAN OF ABOUT AN
HOUR.
>> SO DO YOU THINK THE OTHER
WITNESS MISREMEMBERED?
>> I DON'T KNOW.
AND WHAT THAT SAYS, IF I DON'T
KNOW AND THE JURY DOESN'T KNOW,
THAT'S REASONABLE DOUBT.
>> THIS IS ELSIE'S CAR.
>> ELSIE CASTRO.
>> RIGHT.
HERE, THE KIDS WERE ALL BACK AND
FORTH AROUND HERE.
>> ON THAT CORNER.
AND WHERE WAS THE ACTUAL POINT
WHERE THEY BELIEVED SHE WAS
TAKEN?
>> WELL, THIS IS THE OTHER
THING.
WE'RE NOT SURE. LOOK AT THAT.
>> A VOLKSWAGEN.
>> HE CAME BACK TO SEE WHAT WAS
GOING ON.
ALL OF THE CRIMES THAT WE SEEM
TO LINK HIM TO ALL TOOK PLACE IN
JULY, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF
TIAHEASE.
THIS WAS TIAHEASE -- TAI.
SHE LIVED WITH HER MOTHER, AND I
BELIEVE THERE WERE FOUR OTHER
SIBLINGS, AND THEY WERE ALL IN
ONE ROOM IN THE CONCA D'ORO.
IT WAS A WELFARE HOTEL AT THE
PARTICULAR TIME.
IT WAS AN AUGUST DAY, AND THE
OLDER BROTHER LEFT TIAHEASE
TALKING TO A MAN.
THAT MAN WAS DESCRIBED AS
SOMEONE THAT LOOKED LIKE ANDRE.
SHE'S NEVER BEEN SEEN AGAIN.
THE EVIDENCE IS THE BODIES.
I'M SURE BURIED SOMEWHERE, HE'S
GOT THE EVIDENCE.
WE JUST HAVEN'T FOUND IT IN THE
WOODS YET.
>> SNIFF IT OUT.
WHATCHA GOT, BOY?
>> DONNA IS SEARCHING ONE OF
RAND'S FORMER CAMPSITES WITH
LUIS RIVERA, A RETIRED POLICE
OFFICER WHO HELPED SEARCH FOR
JENNIFER THE DAY SHE
DISAPPEARED.
>> FIND THE BODY, BOY.
FIND THE BODY.
SNIFF IT OUT.
ONE BODY THAT I FOUND WITH MY
DOG WAS 22 YEARS IN THE GROUND.
SO THE POSSIBILITIES ARE REALLY
THERE.
IT'S JUST A MATTER OF COMING
BACK OUT, CONCENTRATING ON SMALL
AREAS AT A TIME.
COME ON, BOY.
SNIFF IT OUT.
FIND THE BODY, BOY.
>> WHERE DO YOU THINK MOST OF
THESE KIDS ARE?
>> IT'S HARD TO SAY.
THEY'RE BURIED...
SOMEWHERE IN STATEN ISLAND.
>> DETECTIVE FRANK SAEZ IS ONE
OF THE FOREMOST EXPERTS ON THE
COLD CASES OF NEW YORK CITY'S
MISSING CHILDREN.
>> I MEAN, HE COULD COME AND
SAY, "LISTEN," SOMEDAY, "I'LL
GIVE YOU THE BODIES," AND TAKE
YOU TO A LOCATION, AND YOU COULD
BE SHOCKED WHERE IT'S AT.
>> IF YOU LOOK AROUND, YOU CAN
ACTUALLY SEE THE PERIMETER OF
THIS AREA.
AND THIS WAS ONE OF HIS
CAMPSITES.
THIS DID NOT HAVE A LEAN-TO OR
A LATRINE OR ANYTHING SET UP THE
WAY THE CAMPSITE AT WILLOWBROOK
DID, BUT KIDS DID SAY THAT THEY
WOULD SEE HIM SITTING IN HERE.
SO, THIS WAS WHERE HE LIVED IN
THE WARMER MONTHS.
>> SEEK IT OUT.
SEEK IT OUT, BOY.
>> THEY SAY THE DEATH OF A CHILD
IS THE WORST POSSIBLE CRIME
ANYBODY CAN EVER IMAGINE.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
BUT THE MISSING OF A CHILD IS
EVEN WORSE, BECAUSE IF YOUR
CHILD DIES AND YOU BURY HIM OR
HER, THEN AT LEAST YOU HAVE A
PLACE THAT YOU CAN GO TO.
WHEN YOUR CHILD DISAPPEARS AND
YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT CHILD
IS, TO A PARENT, A CHILD IS
NEVER DEAD UNTIL AN OFFICER CAN
ACTUALLY BRING THE REMAINS TO
THEM.
>> SOMEBODY'S USING THIS AREA
HERE.
>> SEE, WHEN YOU FIND THINGS
LIKE ARTICLES OF CLOTHING, LIKE
THIS IS A KID'S SHOE, SHAMPOO,
TAPE...
LUIS!
COME ON BACK.
OKAY, THERE'S SHOES, DUCT TAPE,
AND LOOK HOW SOFT THE GROUND IS.
IT'S REAL SOFT.
>> YEAH.
SNIFF IT OUT.
SNIFF IT OUT, BOY.
DIG IT OUT, BOY.
>> IT'S AREAS LIKE THIS THAT WE
WOULD DIG, JUST TO SEE, BECAUSE
THAT LOOKS A LITTLE SUSPICIOUS.
YOU NEVER KNOW.
>> SO, THIS CORRECTIONS OFFICER
KEEPS SAYING ON THE BUS EVERY
MORNING THAT RAND SAYS HE'S
INNOCENT AND HE DIDN'T DO IT.
AND THE CORRECTIONS OFFICER
SAYS, "THEN CONSIDER YOURSELF A
MARTYR FOR THE SAFETY OF
CHILDREN.
AND THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE."
>> HOLLY ANN'S BROTHER,
ED ARMSTRONG, TOOK THE STAND
TODAY.
HE WAS 14 YEARS OLD WHEN HE LAST
SAW HIS SISTER ON THE DAY SHE
DISAPPEARED.
SINCE THEN, HE'S BECOME A
LIEUTENANT IN THE
NEW YORK POLICE DEPARTMENT.
HE'S ALSO BEEN INSTRUMENTAL IN
BRINGING THIS CASE TO TRIAL.
>> IF HE HAS ANY HUMANITY LEFT
IN HIS SOUL, YOU KNOW, MAYBE
HE'LL SEE THAT THERE WAS AN
ERROR IN HIS WAY, AND, YOU
KNOW, I COULD FORGIVE HIM IF HE
RETURNED THE REMAINS OF MY
SISTER.
AND THAT'S ALL WE EVER WANTED.
YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T CARE IF WE
EVER GOT A DAY EXTRA ADDED TO
HIS SENTENCE.
ALL I EVER WANTED WERE THE
REMAINS OF MY SISTER.
IF HE'S GOT ANYTHING LEFT, HE'LL
DO THAT FOR US.
>> HERE'S HOLLY ANN.
>> YOU WERE INVOLVED IN ALL OF
THESE SEARCHES?
>> OH, YEAH, YEAH.
>> HOW LONG DO YOU THINK YOU
SEARCHED FOR HER FOR?
>> [ SIGHS ] FOR YEARS.
[ CHUCKLES ]
"WILL THE UNLUCKY 7 EVER TURN
UP?"
RUSHAN, HIS NAME WAS --
R-U-S-H-A-N.
AND HE CHANGED IT TO RAND.
THIS IS ONE WHERE JENNIFER WAS
MISSING.
>> DO YOU THINK THERE'S ANY
CREDENCE IN THE IDEA THAT MAYBE
JENNIFER WAS REBURIED AT THE
CAMPSITE?
>> THEY FOUND HER WITH THE HEAD
DOWN, I THINK IT WAS, AND THE
BLOOD WAS IN THE FEET, LIKE SHE
WAS REPOSITIONED.
>> SO WHO DO YOU THINK MAYBE...
>> THAT'S WHY WE THOUGHT THERE
MIGHT HAVE BEEN OTHER PEOPLE
INVOLVED.
>> THE RUMORS SURROUNDING THE
MISSING CHILDREN WERE
OVERWHELMING.
SOME BELIEVED THAT RAND DIDN'T
ACT ALONE, THAT HE HAD HELP FROM
ONE OF THE HOMELESS OR A FORMER
PATIENT FROM WILLOWBROOK.
OTHERS THOUGHT HE WAS FRAMED AND
THAT THE REAL KILLER WAS STILL
OUT THERE.
THE ONLY PERSON WHO KNEW THE
TRUTH WAS RAND HIMSELF.
FOR WEEKS WE HAD BEEN EXCHANGING
LETTERS IN HOPES OF GETTING AN
INTERVIEW.
BUT RAND REFUSED TO GIVE US ANY
INFORMATION.
HE FELT ALL THE UNWANTED
ATTENTION WOULD EXPOSE THE
NATURE OF HIS SUSPECTED CRIMES
TO HIS FELLOW INMATES AND PUT
HIS LIFE IN JEOPARDY.
"A VIDEO INTERVIEW WHILE
INCARCERATED IS LIKELY TO
INSTIGATE VIOLENT AND JEALOUS
ACTIONS, DETRIMENT TO MY LIFE
AND/OR PROPERTY AS CAUSED BY THE
PRESS."
>> SINCE RAND WOULDN'T SPEAK
WITH US, WE HAD TO FOLLOW ANY
LEAD...
[ KNOCK ON DOOR ]
...FIND ANYONE WHO MIGHT HAVE
KNOWN HIM IN THE PAST.
HEY, I'M LOOKING FOR
RICHARD FREAR.
DOES HE LIVE HERE?
HE DOESN'T LIVE HERE?
I THOUGHT HE LIVE-- HE DOESN'T
LIVE HERE ANYMORE?
HE USED TO.
>> WHO ARE THEY?
>> ALL PEOPLE WHO KNEW RAND.
>> HOW DID THEY KNOW RAND?
>> THROUGH DONNA'S NOTES, THEY
SAID, "OH, YOU KNOW, FRIEND OF
RAND.
KNEW RAND."
YOU DON'T RECOGNIZE ANY OF
THESE NAMES?
AND WILLY HAS PASSED AWAY THERE.
>> OH, OKAY.
>> OKAY.
DOES A GUY THOMAS LIVE HERE?
>> I WAS AROUND 6, 7 YEARS OLD,
AND WE WAS ALL OUTSIDE PLAYING
AT THE YMCA.
THE GUY WAS LIKE, "Y'ALL WANT TO
GO ON A TRIP?"
THIS IS THE PLACE RIGHT HERE,
YMCA.
HE HAD A BUS RIGHT HERE.
IT WAS PARKED RIGHT HERE AT
THE TIME.
I'LL NEVER FORGET IT.
WE ALL HOPPED ON THE BUS.
WE DIDN'T KNOW NO BETTER.
WE WERE LITTLE KIDS, YOU KNOW?
>> YEAH.
>> HE SAID HE WAS JUST GONNA
TAKE US TO THE PARK.
WE WOUND UP IN NEWARK AIRPORT.
SO THEN AFTER THAT, HE TOOK US
SOMEWHERE IN SOME PARK, WHICH
IT WAS PITCH-BLACK.
I THINK IT WAS WILLOWBROOK PARK
AT THE TIME.
PITCH-BLACK.
WE WERE ALL RUNNING AROUND,
PLAYING HIDE AND SEEK AND
EVERYTHING.
COME TO FIND OUT WE WERE BEING
KIDNAPPED, AND WE DIDN'T EVEN
HAVE A CLUE WHAT WAS GOING ON.
I THINK HE ATTEMPTED SOMETHING
THAT HE COULDN'T ACCOMPLISH, AND
I THINK IT, LIKE, DAWNED ON HIM,
LIKE, "I CAN'T DO IT LIKE THIS.
LET ME, LIKE, TAKE MY STEPS."
AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT HE DID.
HE WAS LIKE, YOU KNOW, "LET ME
WORK ON MY PREY."
AND THAT'S WHAT HE DID.
>> WHILE SOME RESIDENTS WERE
CONVINCED OF RAND'S GUILT,
OTHERS WEREN'T SO SURE.
EXCUSE ME.
DO YOU GUYS KNOW A THOMAS MICOL?
>> THAT'S ME.
>> OH, HEY.
>> I WORKED WITH ANDRE RAND.
>> CAN WE TALK TO YOU FOR A
COUPLE MINUTES?
>> SURE.
THEY SAY THAT HE WAS TOTALLY
FRAMED FOR THAT, THAT THEY
COMBED THAT AREA...
LIKE WITH A FINE-TOOTH COMB.
AFTER THEY ARRESTED ANDRE RAND,
THEY COMBED IT AGAIN, AND NOW
HER BODY IS THERE, VERY EASILY
TO BE FOUND.
SO YOU KNOW WHAT?
I WOULD THINK THAT MAYBE HE
DIDN'T DO IT EITHER.
SOMEBODY WHO DID DO IT MOVED
THE BODY THERE TO FRAME HIM.
>> I THOUGHT THEY WERE JUST
TRYING TO PIN IT ON SOMEBODY,
AND THEY WERE GONNA BLAME HIM,
BECAUSE HE WAS THIS LONER, AND,
YOU KNOW, HE KIND OF LOOKED, YOU
KNOW, A LITTLE SCARY.
>> SEARCHING THROUGH OLD FILES,
WE CAME ACROSS THE NAME OF
BOB GRAHAM.
THE NOTES HAD INDICATED THAT
HE KNEW RAND AND AT ONE TIME HAD
BEEN AN EARLY SUSPECT IN
JENNIFER'S DISAPPEARANCE.
>> HE BRIEFLY WORKED AT A
HAMBURGER JOINT ON FOREST AVENUE
CALLED WESTLEY'S, AND WHEN WE
USED TO STREET-RACE AND
DRAG-RACE BACK IN THE LATE '60s,
EARLY '70s, WE USED TO HIDE
THERE.
HE HAD THE PAPER HAT ON, AND HE
WAS SWEEPING UP THE PARKING LOT,
OR HE WAS BEHIND THE COUNTER,
YOU KNOW, PUTTING CHEESE ON THE
BURGERS.
AND HE HAD THIS VOLKSWAGEN THAT
I NOTICED WAS IN THE WEEDS
BEHIND WILLOWBROOK.
HE WAS LIVING IN THE CAR;
THERE WAS A PATHWAY DOWN THERE.
AND I HEARD THINGS ABOUT THE
TUNNEL NETWORK UNDER WILLOWBROOK
STATE SCHOOL.
IT WAS SET UP LIKE A HUB WITH
SPOKES.
YOU COULD GET, SAY, FROM THE
CAFETERIA OUT TO EVERY WARD.
HE COULD SURVIVE DOWN THERE
BECAUSE HE HAD WORKED THERE AT
ONE TIME.
>> SO, WERE THERE OTHER PEOPLE
LIVING IN THE WOODS?
>> THERE'S A LOT OF THEM OUT
HERE, NOT JUST HIM.
THERE ARE A LOT OF THEM OUT
HERE.
>> THERE'S SOMETHING UP THERE.
LOOK, MAYBE THIS IS WHAT
HE'S TALKING ABOUT.
THERE'S A TUNNEL.
GOES ALL THE WAY DOWN HERE.
>> THERE'S A CITY UNDER A CITY.
BETWEEN THE RATS RUNNING AROUND
AND THE SEWER WATER THAT HAD
SEEPED IN AND...
THE DIRTY CLOTHES AND --
>> RACKS OF CLOTHES, COTS.
>> IT'S AN OLD WHEELCHAIR.
>> WOW. THAT'S PRETTY CRAZY.
>> OBVIOUSLY, MEN, WOMEN, AND
CHILDREN WERE LIVING DOWN THERE,
INCLUDING ANDRE RAND.
>> YEAH, HE HAD HIS OWN LITTLE
CIRCLE OF FRIENDS THERE.
>> LOOK. ALL THESE HAVE THESE
HOLES IN IT, AND THEY'RE ALL
REALLY CLEAN FOR PEOPLE TO LIVE
IN.
LOOK AT THAT FLOOR.
THAT FLOOR HAS BEEN TOTALLY
WIPED CLEAN.
>> ANDRE RAND HAD THIS SORT OF
REALLY LOW-CLASS, WHITE-TRASH
VERSION OF JIM JONES GOING.
SOMEHOW, HE MANAGED TO GET
PEOPLE TO FOLLOW HIM.
>> WHO WERE THEY, THOUGH?
>> WELL, HE HAD SOME OTHER
HOMELESS.
>> SOMEBODY'S BEEN STAYING HERE.
CREAM OF MUSHROOM SOUP, OLD
DISHES.
>> FLOWERS.
>> I REMEMBER ONE DAY, WE FOUND
A MATTRESS WITH MEN'S RAZORS AND
A TOOTHBRUSH AND MEN'S CLOTHING
WITH ONE PAIR OF LITTLE GIRL'S
PANTIES.
>> I THINK THAT HE WAS PASSING
THE CHILDREN AROUND TO HIS
FRIENDS, WHO WERE JUST AS SICK
AS HIM.
>> SO, DO YOU THINK RAND WAS THE
ONLY ONE RESPONSIBLE?
>> IN JENNIFER'S KILLING?
>> NO, I DON'T THINK HE COULD
HAVE DONE IT ALL BY HIMSELF.
>> THEY TOLD US A LOT OF STRANGE
STORIES.
THEY TOLD US STRANGE THINGS
ABOUT ANDRE WE COULD NEVER PROVE
OR DISPROVE.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HAVING
SEX WITH DEAD PEOPLE.
THERE'S A STORY, WHETHER YOU
HEARD THAT ONE OR NOT.
>> THE THING THAT ANDRE USED TO
DO IS USED TO DIG UP DEAD BODIES
IN THE CEMETERY AND HAD SEX WITH
THESE BODIES.
>> DID YOU FIND IT STRANGE THAT
THERE WAS KIND OF THIS
UNDERBELLY TO STATEN ISLAND?
>> I WOULD'VE NEVER GUESSED THE
AMOUNT OF WEIRDOS LIVING ON
STATEN ISLAND THAT I RAN INTO.
>> YOU KNOW, WHY AREN'T PEOPLE
AWARE OF WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?
>> TO THOSE WHO EVEN REMOTELY
KNEW ANDRE RAND, HE WAS A
COMPLETE MYSTERY.
THE MORE WE TRIED TO LEARN ABOUT
HIM, THE MORE BIZARRE THE
STORIES BECAME.
IT WAS BECOMING HARDER FOR US
TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
THE FACTS...
AND THE FOLKLORE.
>> IN AN ALMOST REPLAY OF RAND'S
FIRST TRIAL, THE PROSECUTION IS
ONCE AGAIN RELYING ON EYEWITNESS
TESTIMONY TO PROVE ITS CASE.
SOME OF THOSE WHO TESTIFIED WERE
FORMER ALCOHOLICS OR DRUG
ADDICTS WHO NOW SAY THEY CAN
RECALL THE DETAILS OF THAT NIGHT
OVER 20 YEARS AGO.
>> BURNS CHANGED HIS STORY BACK
AND FORTH, BUT BASICALLY HE'S
DRINKING.
HE SEES HOLLY ANN.
HE SEES RAND TALKING TO HOLLY.
HE WAS THE FIRST WITNESS THAT
PUT RAND NEXT TO HOLLY ANN.
>> SO IN THAT 17 YEARS, HE NEVER
CAME FORWARD?
>> NEVER CAME FORWARD.
THAT WAS THE KEY PART OF OUR
CROSS.
THAT WAS KEY.
NEVER CAME FORWARD.
>> OTHER WITNESSES COULD PROVIDE
ONLY THE VAGUEST OF DETAILS IN
THEIR TESTIMONY.
>> WHAT WAS HE LIKE?
>> OH, YOU DON'T WANT TO MEET
HIM.
HE WAS A CREEP.
>> WHY?
>> 'CAUSE HE LOOKED LIKE HE WAS
A KILLER.
I JUST SAID WHAT I HAD TO SAY,
AND THAT'S IT.
>> DID YOU SEE ANYTHING THE
NIGHT THAT HOLLY ANN
DISAPPEARED?
>> YEAH, I HEARD A SCREAM, AND I
HEARD HER SAY, "LET ME GO."
>> WE HAD PEOPLE THAT THAT HELD
BACK INFORMATION THAT WE'RE
FINDING OUT TODAY THAT WERE DRUG
ADDICTS, DOPE DEALERS.
>> WHAT DID YOU NEED THAT YOU
DIDN'T HAVE?
>> WE NEEDED TO PUT HER IN THE
CAR.
>> TO PUT HER IN THE CAR?
>> RIGHT.
>> AND YOU HAD NO ACTUAL
WITNESSES TO PUT HER IN THE CAR?
>> NOT AT THAT TIME.
>> HE PULLED UP IN HIS LITTLE,
GREEN CAR, ASKED US IF WE WANTED
CANDY.
SHE WENT TO GO GET IT.
SHE PUT HER ARM IN THE CAR AS HE
OPENED UP THE DOOR, AND THAT'S
THE LAST I'VE EVER SEEN OF HER.
>> IN A SURPRISING TURN OF
EVENTS, TANYA GOODSON WAS CALLED
TO THE STAND.
A PLAYMATE OF HOLLY ANN'S WHO
WAS 6 AT THE TIME, TANYA
TESTIFIED THAT SHE SAW RAND,
WEARING A MASK AND HOLDING
CANDY, PULL HOLLY ANN INTO HIS
CAR.
SO, WHEN YOU SAID WHEN HE TOOK
HOLLY ANN HE WAS WEARING A MASK.
TELL ME ABOUT THAT.
>> THE MASK I DON'T REMEMBER.
ALL I KNOW IS HIS FACE WAS
COVERED.
I COULDN'T SEE HIS FACE.
>> SO IT MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN A
MASK, JUST LIKE MAYBE HIS HAT
PULLED DOWN OR --
>> NO, HIS WHOLE FACE WAS
COVERED.
>> BUT WHEN HE SAID, "DO YOU
WANT CANDY?" DID HE LOOK THAT
BIZARRE, WITH THE MASK AND
STUFF?
>> HE LOOKED SCARY.
>> SO, YOU KNEW JENNIFER, AND
YOU KNEW HOLLY ANN?
>> YEAH. I KNEW A BUNCH OF THEM
THAT HE HAD KIDNAPPED.
>> DID YOU KNOW HANK GAFFORIO?
>> THAT ONE I DIDN'T KNOW.
I KNEW LATISHA.
>> TIAHEASE?
>> TIAHEASE JACKSON?
>> YEAH.
>> ALL THESE PEOPLE YOU KNEW
GROWING UP ON STATEN ISLAND, AND
THEY ALL WERE DISAPPEARING.
WHAT DID YOU THINK?
>> I DIDN'T THINK ANYTHING
BECAUSE I WAS TOO YOUNG.
AND NOW THAT I AM OLDER, I CAME
HERE TO DO WHAT I GOT TO DO, AND
I FEEL A WHOLE LOT BETTER NOW.
>> MR. RAND, WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO
SAY TO THE STATEN ISLAND
COMMUNITY?
[ CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING ]
>> AND THAT'S 675 TYSENS LANE.
>> THIS IS IT, YEAH.
>> 30 YEARS AGO.
ALICE LIVED HERE WITH...
>> HER MOTHER, WHO HAD MULTIPLE
SCLEROSIS, WAS ABOUT 26 YEARS
OLD AT THE TIME.
AND, OF COURSE, THERE'S
ANDRE RAND, WOULD STAND RIGHT
THERE ALL THE TIME, RIGHT WHERE
THAT DOOR IS.
AND HE WAS A MAINTENANCE MAN
HERE.
>> AND WHERE WAS THE FATHER AT
THE TIME?
>> THEY WERE SEPARATED.
THEY WERE SEPARATED FOR ABOUT
THREE YEARS, AND THAT'S WHY THE
DETECTIVES THOUGHT THAT THE
FATHER MIGHT HAVE TAKEN THE
CHILD.
AND SO THEY DID NOT FOCUS ON
THE CHILD BEING KIDNAPPED BY
SOME DEVIATE.
WE JUST WANT CLOSURE, ALL OF US.
THAT'S ALL.
>> OF COURSE.
>> IT'S BEEN SO MANY YEARS.
IT'S LIKE EVERYBODY FORGOT.
>> HE SENT A PICTURE OF HIS
RIKERS ISLAND I.D.
"DEAR BARBARA, YOU KNOW THAT I
CANNOT ANSWER MANY OF YOUR
QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME.
THE DOCUMENTARY FILM YOU PUT SO
MUCH FAITH INTO WILL NEVER STAND
UP TO THE EXCULPATORY EVIDENCE
IN MY BOOK.
YOU MIGHT MEAN WELL, BUT LATER,
OTHER MOVIEMAKERS WILL PICK UP
WHERE YOU LEFT OFF.
AS LONG AS I'M IN PRISON, I WILL
GIVE THE MOVIEMAKERS REASON TO
PORTRAY ME AS AN EVIL PERSON.
YOU SEE, EVILNESS SELLS.
THAT'S THE NAME OF THEIR GAME."
>> RAND WAS RIGHT.
THE EVIL, NOT HARD FACTS, WAS
PUSHING THIS TRIAL.
BUT THEN THE COINCIDENCES
COULDN'T BE IGNORED.
WE KNEW WE HAD TO GET AN
INTERVIEW, BUT NOW, IN EXCHANGE,
RAND WAS PUSHING FOR US TO
PROCLAIM HIS INNOCENCE.
"BARBARA, TYPE ME AN EXACT LIST
OF THE QUESTIONS OR DISCUSSIONS
YOU'RE GOING TO ASK ME DURING
YOUR DOCUMENTARY."
>> THIS IS, I THINK, THE ROUTE
THAT HE TOOK HOLLY ANN ON.
ALL THE CLUES LED US RIGHT ALONG
HERE, RIGHT UP INTO
BARON HIRSCH.
>> SO HE HAD A CAMPSITE IN HERE?
>> WE THINK IT WAS HIS.
SHE COULD BE IN ONE OF THESE
GRAVES OVER HERE.
IF HE HAD A BAR OR SOMETHING,
HE COULD'VE MOVED A LID OVER,
PUT THE BODY IN THERE WITH AN
OLDER BODY, AND COVERED IT
BACK UP AGAIN, AND NOBODY'D EVER
FIND HER.
'CAUSE A LOT OF THESE ARE LOOSE.
>> RIGHT.
>> THERE'S A BODY DOWN BELOW
THERE.
I DON'T KNOW HOW DEEP THEY BURY
THEM.
>> THESE ARE ALL CHILDREN.
>> AT FIRST, WE WERE THINKING
MAYBE HE SOLD THEM TO USE FOR
CULT ACTIVITIES OR WHATEVER, YOU
KNOW?
>> REALLY?
YOU THINK IT'S DEFINITELY
LEGITIMATE?
>> I WOULDN'T DOUBT IT.
>> I MEAN, WHAT MADE YOU BELIEVE
THAT THAT WAS GOING ON?
>> WELL, WE HAD THE SON OF SAM
OUT THERE, YOU KNOW?
THAT GOES INTO CULTS IN A BIG
WAY.
>> I GUESS, ONLY BECAUSE THAT'S
SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE THOUGHT OF
BACK THEN, 20 YEARS AGO.
MAYBE NOT TODAY.
>> THEY'RE STILL THINKING ABOUT
IT.
>> ANDRE WAS INTO THE DEVIL'S
CULT, AND BEING A NATIVE
STATEN ISLANDER, I REALLY
COULDN'T BELIEVE HOW MUCH --
HOW BIG IT IS ON STATEN ISLAND.
WE WENT TO ONE ESTABLISHMENT
WHERE THE BASEMENT WAS SET UP
LIKE -- I GUESS WHAT THEY'D
CALL THE CHURCH, AND THEY USED
TO HOLD THEIR CEREMONIES ON
ACTUALLY THE OLD
WILLOWBROOK STATE SCHOOL
GROUNDS.
>> SO YOU DON'T THINK IT WAS
KIDS?
>> OH, DEFINITELY NOT.
DEFINITELY NOT.
I THINK IT WAS ADULTS THAT WOULD
HOLD THESE CEREMONIES.
AND I THINK ANDRE RAND AND HIS
CREW WERE PART OF IT.
WHETHER INITIATED OR NOT, THEY
WERE PART OF IT.
>> IT'S HARD FOR US TO BELIEVE,
BUT IF YOU HAD TO CONVINCE
SOMEBODY THAT IT WAS REAL, WHAT
WOULD YOU SAY?
>> I WOULD SAY IS GET A COUPLE
OF HIS FRIENDS, SIT DOWN, AND
TALK TO THEM.
AND BY THEM JUST TALKING, YOU'LL
REALIZE HOW BAD IT WAS.
>> ONE TIME, I WAS INVITED TO
THE PRECINCT TO TALK TO THEM AS
THEY RECORDED ME, AND THEY START
TELLING ME ABOUT DEVIL
WORSHIPPING ON STATEN ISLAND,
THAT MAYBE HE WAS A PART OF THIS
CULT.
AND I DIDN'T BELIEVE IT.
>> WHAT DID THEY THINK WAS GOING
ON?
>> THAT MAYBE SOME OF THESE
DEVIL WORSHIPPERS HAD SOMETHING
TO DO WITH THE KIDS VANISHING.
YOU CAN PAINT PARALLELS TO
ANYTHING AND SAY, "OH, YEAH."
YOU KNOW, I CAN TAKE A PICTURE
OF ANYBODY.
OKAY?
AND I CAN SAY, "THIS MAN IS A
MASS MURDERER."
AND THEY SAY, "YEAH, I CAN TELL!
I CAN TELL."
I COULD SAY, "THIS MAN RESCUED
SIX PEOPLE FROM A BURNING
BUILDING."
"I CAN TELL HE'S A GOOD MAN."
>> IN ADDITION TO THE POLICE
INVESTIGATION, OTHER EVIDENCE OF
CULT ACTIVITY HAD BEEN MAILED
TO JENNIFER'S FAMILY.
A MYSTERIOUS LETTER CLAIMED THAT
RAND HAD BEEN SUPPLYING CHILDREN
TO THE CHURCH OF THE PROCESS,
THE SAME CULT THAT
DAVID BERKOWITZ ALLEGED HELPED
HIM COMMIT THE SON OF SAM
MURDERS.
THIS ANONYMOUS LETTER WAS TRACED
BACK TO VERONICA LUEKEN, A LOCAL
WOMAN WITH HER OWN RELIGIOUS
FOLLOWING.
SO BASICALLY THIS GROUP RIGHT
DOWN OVER HERE, YOU KNOW, THEY
WROTE THESE LETTERS FROM
10/4/87, WHICH IS A COUPLE
MONTHS AFTER JENNIFER
DISAPPEARED.
"I THOUGHT I'D WRITE YOU THIS
NOTE TO TRY AND ENLIGHTEN YOU,
AT THE SAME TIME REASSURE YOU
ABOUT THE CRIMES THAT ARE BEING
COMMITTED ON THE ISLAND.
WELL, I DID A LITTLE CHECKING
ON THE RECENT DISAPPEARANCES AND
MURDERS OF THESE KIDS, AND IT
LOOKS LIKE SOME OF THEM WERE
VICTIMS OF WHAT IS CALLED A
SATANIC BLACK MASS.
ANDRE RAND DID NOT KILL
JENNIFER.
ALL HE DID WAS BRING HER TO
THE COVEN.
TOO BAD THAT THEY COVERED IT
UP, BUT WHO WANTS TO ADMIT THAT
STATEN ISLAND IS LITERALLY GOING
TO HELL?
IT IS A PICNIC GROUND FOR
THEM.
THERE ARE BODIES BURIED THAT
WILL NEVER BE FOUND."
>> HAIL MARY, FULL OF GRACE, THE
LORD IS WITH THEE.
BLESSED ARE THOU AMONGST WOMEN,
AND BLESSED IS THE FRUIT OF THY
WOMB, JESUS."
>> SO, CAN WE SPEAK TO YOU FOR
ONE MINUTE?
CAN YOU GIVE ME, LIKE, A
SUMMATION OF WHAT SHE SAID BACK
THEN?
DO YOU BELIEVE IT ACTUALLY GOES
ON?
SO, I THINK IT WOULD BE GREAT IF
YOU COULD SPEAK FOR YOUR
ORGANIZATION.
>> OKAY.
>> 'CAUSE YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT
THEM?
>> DO YOU THINK THEY'RE ALL
AROUND US?
>> ...THE LORD IS WITH THEE.
>> THIS IS THE TRANSCRIPTION
FROM AN INTERVIEW THAT
DETECTIVES IN 1988 DID WITH
ANDRE RAND WHILE HE WAS UP IN
SING SING.
FOR THE FIRST...
HALF AN HOUR, THEY DISCUSS DEVIL
WORSHIPPING.
"SO YOU WERE CAMPING OUT WHEN HE
TOLD YOU THAT THERE MIGHT BE
SATANIC GOINGS-ON IN THE
WILLOWBROOK AREA?
NOW IT'S 1987, AND YOU HEAR
ABOUT THIS CULT OPERATING AROUND
THE SAME NEIGHBORHOOD, HUMAN
SACRIFICES.
DIDN'T YOU SAY TO YOURSELF,
'MAYBE THEY'RE THE ONES THAT
SNATCHED THAT LITTLE GIRL?'
DID THAT OCCUR TO YOU?"
SO, WHEN YOU WENT UP TO
SING SING IN '98, YOU DISCUSSED
WITH HIM NUMEROUS THINGS ABOUT
DEVIL WORSHIPPING?
>> [ CHUCKLES ]
WELL...
IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS LOOKED
INTO.
BUT, LIKE I SAID, WE DIDN'T FIND
THAT ANDRE WAS INTO THAT KIND OF
CROWD.
>> THERE WAS SOMETHING CALLED
THE CHURCH OF THE PROCESS YEARS
AGO THAT WAS VERY STRONGLY
LINKED TO SATANIC CULTS, AND THE
FOUNDER OF THAT CHURCH HAPPENS
TO LIVE ON STATEN ISLAND.
>> [ CHUCKLES ]
AND HAS LIVED THERE FOR A LONG
TIME.
>> AND HE'S LIVED THERE FOR A
LONG TIME.
>> YEAH. I MEAN, IS HE JUST NOT
ACTIVE?
WHAT'S THAT ALL ABOUT?
>> NO, HE'S NOT.
SUPPOSEDLY HE'S NOT ACTIVE
ANYMORE.
>> DOES HE DENY IT, OR IS HE --
>> I'VE NEVER INTERVIEWED HIM.
IS THERE SATANIC CULTS, PEOPLE
THAT PRACTICE?
OF COURSE THERE IS.
BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S KEPT
VERY QUIET.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT NOT MANY
DEPARTMENTS INVESTIGATE.
SATANIC WORSHIP IS SATANIC
WORSHIPPERS.
IT'S LIKE BEING A CATHOLIC.
YOU BELIEVE IN GOD, AND YOU
BELIEVE IN JESUS.
THEY BELIEVE IN SATAN.
>> SO, ARE YOU IN HOUSES, OR ARE
YOU IN THE WOODS?
>> YOU COULD BE IN HOUSES.
YOU COULD BE IN THE WOODS.
>> ARE YOU IN ABANDONED MENTAL
INSTITUTIONS?
>> YOU COULD USE THEM.
>> AND DO THEY USE KIDS?
>> I'D RATHER NOT ANSWER THAT.
>> BASICALLY, THIS IS THE AREA
KNOWN AS THE FARM COLONY, AND
THIS IS WHERE THEY SAID A LOT OF
DEVIL WORSHIPPING AND STUFF WAS
GOING ON.
>> I'M NOT SAYING THAT THERE'S
ANYTHING HERE.
MAYBE IT'S PEOPLE'S
IMAGINATIONS.
>> I MEAN, IT'S SCARY BECAUSE
YOU DON'T KNOW WHO CAN BE HERE.
BUT THERE'S NO DEVIL
WORSHIPPERS.
>> THERE ARE SOME CROSSES ON THE
BUILDING ACROSS THE WAY.
WE SHOULD GO.
LET'S JUST CHECK IT OUT.
>> BUILDING "A."
BARB, YOU WANT TO GO INSIDE?
LET'S GO INSIDE.
>> NO, I'M NOT GOING INSIDE.
>> SO, WE'RE NOT GONNA SEE
ANYTHING IF WE DON'T GO INSIDE.
>> I'M NOT. WAIT.
I'M NOT GOING INSIDE.
WE ALREADY WENT INSIDE DURING
THE DAY.
I'M NOT GOING INSIDE.
>> WHAT ARE YOU, SCARED?
>> WE DON'T EVEN KNOW --
I'M NOT GOING INSIDE.
>> I'M GOING INSIDE.
>> WHAT THE FUCK AM I GONNA DO?
[ THUD ]
OH, MY GOD!
>> SORRY. I DROPPED THE LIGHT.
I DROPPED THE LIGHT.
I'M SORRY.
IT WAS AN ACCIDENT.
>> YOU KNOW WHAT?
I DON'T WANT TO STAY.
Shh, shh, shh!
>> WHAT?
YOU HEAR SOMETHING?
>> YEAH.
I saw something over there.
>> PEOPLE ARE COMING.
OH, MY GOD!
[ LAUGHTER ]
>> SO, WHY ARE YOU HERE TONIGHT?
>> YOU HEAR STORIES.
WE JUST WANTED TO SEE WHAT IT'S
ABOUT, I GUESS.
>> WHAT DO YOU GUYS EXPECT TO
FIND OUT HERE?
>> PEOPLE WHO DIED HERE --
SUPPOSED TO BE THE GHOSTS.
>> SEARCHING THROUGH THE FARM
COLONY, ALL WE FOUND WERE KIDS
SCARING EACH OTHER OUT IN THE
WOODS, JUST LIKE WE HAD DONE
20 YEARS AGO.
>> DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE
DEVIL WORSHIPPERS IN THE WOODS
HERE?
>> OH, YEAH. I DO.
>> SOMEBODY SAID THEY WERE DOING
FREAKY EXPERIMENTS AND CRAP LIKE
THAT.
>> WHAT MAKES US ALL COME OUT
HERE?
WHAT MAKES US BELIEVE THESE
STORIES?
COULD THERE BE SOME TRUTH TO
IT ALL?
YOU GUYS EVER HEAR OF ANY
MISSING KIDS FROM STATEN ISLAND?
>> WHY?
Y'ALL BE HEARING MISSING KIDS?
>> THEY FOUND ONE GIRL,
JENNIFER SCHWEIGER, BURIED ON
THE GROUNDS OF THE
WILLOWBROOK MENTAL INSTITUTION.
>> [ GASPS ]
>> I REMEMBER MY MOM SAYING
SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.
WASN'T SHE SLOW?
>> MAYBE THE REALITY THAT A
PERSON CAN KILL A CHILD IS TOO
MUCH FOR SOME OF US TO BEAR, AND
SO INSTEAD WE CREATE OUR OWN
MONSTERS.
>> HE'S NOT GONNA TESTIFY, I'M
VERY DISAPPOINTED TO SAY.
IT SEEMED LIKE HE WAS WANTING
TO DIVULGE INFORMATION, OF
COURSE NOT NECESSARILY CONFESS
TO ANYTHING, BUT CERTAINLY HE
WAS VERY ANTSY, AND THAT SEEMED
LIKE A GOOD SIGN TO PEOPLE WHO
MIGHT LIKE TO TRY TO GET
INFORMATION OUT OF HIM.
>> ARE YOU UPSET HE DIDN'T TAKE
THE STAND?
>> IT WOULD'VE BEEN INTERESTING,
BECAUSE WE'VE NEVER EVEN HEARD
HIM SPEAK.
SO IT'S REALLY HARD TO HAVE
FEELINGS ABOUT A PERSON YOU
REALLY DON'T KNOW.
YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY
SOUND LIKE.
>> HOW COME YOU DIDN'T PUT ANDRE
ON THE STAND?
>> ANDRE DIDN'T HAVE TOO MUCH TO
ADD, AND HE HAS A CRIMINAL
RECORD.
AND A CRIMINAL RECORD WOULD
DISTRACT FROM THIS CASE.
>> THE JURY WILL BE HANDED THE
CASE MONDAY, AND IF CONVICTED,
RAND COULD FACE AN ADDITIONAL 25
YEARS TO LIFE ON TOP OF THE
SENTENCE HE'S ALREADY SERVING.
ON STATEN ISLAND,
AMANDA FARINACCI, NY1.
GOOD?
>> RAND HAD BEEN UPSET ABOUT NOT
TAKING THE STAND AND WANTED THE
CHANCE TO DEFEND HIMSELF.
AFTER MONTHS OF LETTER-WRITING,
HE FINALLY DECIDED TO GIVE US AN
INTERVIEW.
IT WAS TIME TO CONFRONT RAND
FACE-TO-FACE TO GET SOME ANSWERS
ONCE AND FOR ALL.
>> HE DID THE SAME THING TO ME.
'CAUSE AFTER THAT INITIAL
INTERVIEW THAT WE HAD WITH HIM,
WE HAD WRITTEN TO HIM.
WE WENT BACK UP, AND HE SAID,
"SURE, NO PROBLEM.
COME BACK UP.
WE'LL TALK AGAIN.
BUT YOU'LL COME TO MY HOUSE.
YOU CAN'T MOVE ME.
I WON'T TALK TO YOU UNLESS YOU
SPEAK TO ME IN MY HOME."
AND WE WENT UP THERE, AND
HE TOLD THE CORRECTION PEOPLE,
"I CHANGED MY MIND.
I DON'T WANT TO TALK TO HIM."
>> HE WOULDN'T TALK TO US, SO...
WE'RE GONNA GO BACK HOME.
>> IT'S A GAME FOR HIM.
TO ME, HE'S A VERY SMART MAN.
HE KNEW HOW TO COMMIT THE CRIME
AND NOT GET CAUGHT.
AND LIKE HE SAID TO ME, "WHY
IS IT THAT YOU GUYS DON'T FIND
THE REAL KILLER?"
>> "IT IS YOUR SINS THAT MAKE
HIM HIDE HIS FACE SO THAT HE
WILL NOT HEAR YOU, FOR YOUR
HANDS ARE STAINED WITH BLOOD,
YOUR FINGERS WITH GUILT, YOUR
LIPS SPEAK FALSEHOODS, AND YOUR
TONGUE UTTERS DECEIT."
JOSH AND I HAD DECIDED TO HOLD
OFF ON ANSWERING RAND AFTER HIS
MOST RECENT LETTERS.
THEY WERE BECOMING MORE AND
MORE BIZARRE.
HIS HANDWRITING HAD CHANGED,
AND HE WAS NOW QUOTING
SCRIPTURE.
"NO ONE BRINGS SUIT JUSTLY.
NO ONE PLEADS TRUTHFULLY.
THEY TRUST IN EMPTINESS AND
TELL LIES.
THEY CONCEIVE MISCHIEF AND
BRING FORTH MALICE.
THEY HATCH ADDERS' EGGS AND
WEAVE SPIDERS' WEBS.
WHOEVER EATS THEIR EGGS WILL
DIE.
IF ONE OF THEM IS PRESSED, IT
WILL HATCH AS A VIPER."
>> "MY STAND ON DEVIATE SEX
BELIEFS.
CHILDREN ARE EMOTIONALLY WASTED,
AND THE LAND IS LITTERED WITH
BROKEN LIVES."
WHY'S HE KEEP FOCUSING ON WOMEN?
MAYBE HE SAW THINGS AS A CHILD?
I MEAN, NOBODY REALLY KNOWS HIS
EARLY CHILDHOOD.
>> IN SOME OF THE LETTERS TO
YOU -- WE HAVE THEM -- IT TALKS
ABOUT HER CASE.
FATHER DIED IN 1958.
>> WHEN HE WAS 14.
>> HIS MOTHER WAS IN
PILGRIM STATE, FROM WHAT I WAS
TOLD.
PILGRIM STATE IS BUILT EXACTLY
TO THE SPECS OF WILLOWBROOK.
WILLOWBROOK AND PILGRIM STATE...
>> SAME TYPE OF FACILITY.
>> ...SAME TYPE OF FACILITY,
SAME TYPE OF BUILDING, SAME
TUNNEL SYSTEM, SAME KITCHEN
SYSTEMS.
>> RAND WRITES IN HIS LETTERS
THAT HIS MOTHER WAS COMMITTED TO
PILGRIM STATE ASYLUM IN
LONG ISLAND.
AS A TEENAGER, HE WOULD OFTEN
GO THERE TO VISIT.
WITH A POPULATION THAT ONCE
TOPPED 13,000, PILGRIM STATE WAS
AT TIMES THE LARGEST MENTAL
INSTITUTION IN THE WORLD, MUCH
LIKE WILLOWBROOK.
THIS NEW CONNECTION TO RAND'S
FAMILY WAS SOMETHING WE COULDN'T
IGNORE.
WE TRIED SEVERAL TIMES TO
CONTACT A WOMAN WHO WE THOUGHT
WAS RAND'S SISTER.
>> EXCUSE ME.
WE'RE DOING A DOCUMENTARY, AND
WE WANTED TO SPEAK TO YOU
ABOUT -- I THINK IT'S YOUR
BROTHER, ANDRE RAND.
RIGHT.
WAS THERE SOMETHING THAT
HAPPENED IN HIS LIFE THAT YOU
THINK KIND OF SET HIM ON THIS
WRONG PATH?
RIGHT.
>> WE'RE NOT TRYING TO GET
ANYBODY TO CONFESS TO ANYTHING.
>> NO, IT'S JUST A "WHY?"
>> RIGHT.
>> YEAH, TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHY.
YEAH.
>> RECEIVED FRIDAY, JUNE 20th.
[ Receiver clicks ]
>> DO YOU STILL FEEL LIKE THEY
DIDN'T DO ENOUGH AT THE TIME?
>> I DON'T FEEL -- I THINK THEY
ALL WORKED, BUT I DON'T FEEL IT
WAS COORDINATED PROPERLY.
I MEAN, THERE'S SO MANY THINGS
THAT ARE COMING OUT THAT I
DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT.
AND HERE THEY ARE, AND HAD THEY
BEEN FOLLOWED UP, I WOULDN'T BE
HERE TODAY.
IT WOULD'VE BEEN SETTLED 23
YEARS AGO.
>> YOU THINK HE'S GONNA GET
CONVICTED?
>> NOT WITH THIS EVIDENCE,
BECAUSE IT'S NOT CREDIBLE.
>> YOU'VE GOT 12 PEOPLE, AND
SOME PEOPLE JUST COULD GET HUNG
UP ON SOMETHING AND BELIEVE THAT
HE'S GUILTY OR NOT.
>> THE QUESTION OF INNOCENCE OR
GUILT IS MORE FUNDAMENTAL IN ONE
CASE.
THIS GUY HAS A TRACK RECORD.
AND THAT JURY, IN THEIR HEARTS,
THEY PERMIT THIS GUY TO GO FREE,
IS ONLY GONNA SEE ANOTHER
TRAGEDY.
>> THE JURY HAD TAKEN THE
WEEKEND TO DELIBERATE RAND'S
FATE, WHICH GAVE US THE
OPPORTUNITY TO SEEK OUT ONE LAST
PERSON -- REVEREND MUSKETT, A
STOREFRONT PREACHER WHO HAD
HOUSED RAND IN THE FINAL DAYS
BEFORE HIS ARREST IN '87.
FOR MONTHS, WE HAD SEARCHED
FOR HIS WHEREABOUTS UNTIL A
DETECTIVE FINALLY REVEALED HIS
ADDRESS.
[ KNOCK ON DOOR ]
>> HEY, I'M LOOKING FOR
MR. MUSKETT.
>> I DON'T KNOW IF HE REALLY
WANTS TO BE INVOLVED ANYMORE IN
THIS AT ALL OR NOT.
>> MAYBE YOU FEEL LIKE YOUR
FAMILY GOT NEGATIVE ATTENTION AS
A RESULT OF IT, I'M SURE.
>> YEAH, BECAUSE --
>> WELL, ACTUALLY WE DID.
>> YEAH.
>> IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY
WE CAME TO PENNSYLVANIA.
>> Both: RIGHT.
>> SO, RAND WAS LIVING IN YOUR
HOUSE WHILE HE WAS UNDER
SUSPICION FOR TAKING JENNIFER?
>> YES.
IT WAS AT THE POLICE'S OWN
INSISTENCE THAT WE TOOK
ANDRE RAND IN.
THEY BUGGED THE HOUSE, AND THEY
HAD A SURVEILLANCE VEHICLE
SITTING ON THE CORNER DAY AND
NIGHT.
WE COULDN'T TELL THE COMMUNITY
WHAT WE WERE DOING BECAUSE,
OBVIOUSLY, IF WE DID, HE WOULD
KNOW AND WOULD LEAVE.
SO AS FAR AS THE COMMUNITY KNEW,
WE WERE FRIENDS OF ANDRE RAND.
>> DID THEY PHYSICALLY THREATEN
YOU?
>> SOME PEOPLE HAD.
THEY DIDN'T VIEW ME AS A FRIEND.
BUT I WAS A FRIEND OF JENNIFER.
>> WHY DO YOU BELIEVE HE TOOK
JENNIFER?
>> HE TOLD ME.
HE TOLD ME HE TOOK HER.
HE TOOK HER BECAUSE HE THOUGHT
THAT HER FAMILY DIDN'T WANT HER
AND THAT SHE WAS ALONE, AND HE
FELT THAT PEOPLE THAT HAD MENTAL
HANDICAPS AND THAT SHOULDN'T BE
ALIVE...
NOT THINKING THAT PEOPLE WOULD
APPRECIATE OR CARE FOR OR LIKE
SOMEONE WHO HAS A MENTAL
HANDICAP.
>> ANDRE BELIEVED THAT THESE
YOUNG GIRLS CAME FROM FAMILIES
THAT THEY COULDN'T GIVE THEM
ANYTHING, SO THE BEST THING WAS
THAT THEY WEREN'T AROUND.
>> HE SEEMED TO THINK IT WAS
PART OF HIS MISSION TO CLEANSE
THE WORLD OF...
"IMPERFECT CHILDREN" IN HIS
EYES.
>> DUE TO THE FACT THAT HIS
MOTHER HAD SOME SORT OF MENTAL
DISABILITY AND THE FACT THAT HE
VIEWED THESE OTHER PEOPLE THAT
WERE LESS THAN PERFECT, AND I
PERSONALLY FEEL THAT RATHER THAN
SEE THEM MAYBE GROW UP AND HAVE
CHILDREN, HE WAS SPARING THEM
AND TAKING THEM OUT.
>> ONE OF MY SONS IS MENTALLY
RETARDED, WHICH HUNG AROUND WITH
HIM.
HIS NAME'S CHIPPY.
AND THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT DRAWN
HIM TO...
WELL, TO US, BECAUSE OF CHIPPY
BEING THE WAY HE IS.
I THINK HE'S POSSESSED.
I REALLY THINK THAT HE IS
DEMONIZED AND POSSESSED.
>> WE HAD THE SAME QUESTIONS
THAT YOU'RE ASKING ME -- WHY DID
HE DO THIS?
WHAT SET HIM OFF?
BELIEVE ME, WE WERE WIDE-OPEN
FOR ANY TYPE OF MOTIVE.
WHEN WE DID INTERVIEW HIM
FINALLY, THERE WAS GONNA BE A
FINAL INTERVIEW, AND WE WERE
GONNA TAKE HIM BACK THROUGH HIS
ALIBI, AND THAT'S WHY WE RENTED
A HOTEL ROOM.
WE SAID, "ANDRE, LOOK, WE GOT
THIS TAPE OF WILLOWBROOK.
REMEMBER YOU USED TO WORK AT
WILLOWBROOK?"
"OH YEAH, IT WAS TERRIBLE."
I SAID, "REMEMBER HOW
GERALDO RIVERA DID THE EXPOSÃ©?"
HE SAID, "YEAH, BUT I NEVER
SAW IT."
"WELL, WE HAVE IT.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO COME UP AND
SEE IT?
CAUSE WE HAVE A VCR UP THERE."
AND HE SAID, "YOU KNOW, I'D
REALLY LIKE THAT."
AND WE'RE SAYING, "WELL, HE DID
WORK AT WILLOWBROOK FOR TWO
YEARS.
HE WAS A PHYSICAL THERAPIST.
MAYBE THERE'S SOMETHING ON THAT
TAPE THAT'S GONNA SHAKE HIM."
>> PERHAPS THE GOVERNOR CAN
DEFEND AND EXPLAIN AWAY THE
BUDGET CUTS FOR THE DEPARTMENT
OF MENTAL HYGIENE, AND PERHAPS
DR. MILLER CAN EXPLAIN AND
DEFEND THE FILTHY, DEHUMANIZING
CONDITIONS WE FOUND IN THIS AND
OTHER BUILDINGS, BUT THEY WON'T
DO IT ON THIS PROGRAM.
WHAT WE FOUND AND DOCUMENTED
HERE IS A DISGRACE TO ALL OF US.
THIS PLACE ISN'T A SCHOOL.
IT'S A DARK CORNER WHERE WE
THROW CHILDREN WHO AREN'T PRETTY
TO LOOK AT.
IT'S THE BIG TOWN'S LEPER
COLONY.
>> WE WERE SITTING ON BOTH SIDES
OF HIM...
>> AND HE STARTED TO CRY.
>> HE STARTED TO CRY.
>> AND HE SAID, "DO YOU SEE HOW
IT WAS?
YOU SEE HOW IT WAS?
WE WERE VICTIMS, TOO," MEANING
THE ATTENDANTS OR THE PEOPLE
THAT WORKED THERE.
HE JUST SAT THERE, AND HIS EYES,
LIKE, ROLLED, AND HE JUST
STARTED DROOLING IN THE HOTEL
ROOM.
>> WE COULD SEE WHAT WAS
HAPPENING TO HIM, AND IT'S LIKE
YOU WOULD KNEEL RIGHT IN FRONT
OF HIM.
"SAY IT.
TELL US THE TRUTH NOW."
YOU KNOW, "GOD WILL FORGIVE
YOU."
WE WERE SO CLOSE.
WE THOUGHT WE HAD IT.
THEN HE JUST STARTED TO ROCK.
>> HE WAS THAT WAY THAT WHOLE
NIGHT, THE WHOLE NEXT DAY, AND
HE DIDN'T START TALKING TO
PEOPLE UNTIL TWO OR THREE DAYS
LATER.
>> AS MUCH AS IT HAD STARTED, IN
THE END, IT ALL CAME BACK TO
WILLOWBROOK.
WERE THE ANSWERS TO THESE
MISSING CHILDREN FOUND ON
GERALDO'S TAPE?
AND IF SO, HAD THE SINS OF
WILLOWBROOK FINALLY COME BACK TO
HAUNT THE RESIDENTS OF
STATEN ISLAND?
>> ALL NEWS, ALL THE TIME.
THIS IS 1010 WINS.
YOU GIVE US 22 MINUTES, WE'LL
GIVE YOU THE WORLD.
>> A GUILTY VERDICT 23 YEARS
AFTER 7-YEAR-OLD
HOLLY ANN HUGHES VANISHED FROM
OUTSIDE OF HER STATEN ISLAND
HOME.
>> THIS IS THE HEROES RIGHT
HERE.
>> HEROES, HEROES, HEROES,
HEROES.
HE'S A KILLER.
HE'S A KILLER AND A KIDNAPPER.
>> TELL US WHERE SHE IS.
TELL US WHERE THE OTHER KIDS
ARE.
I'LL GO LOOK FOR THEM.
I'LL FIND THEM.
THE OTHER ONES, OF COURSE, YES.
THERE'S SPECULATION.
BUT WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT THOSE
CASES SOMEDAY COME TO TRIAL AND
THAT THE REST OF THOSE FAMILIES
HAVE THE SAME TYPE OF JUSTICE
THAT THE SCHWEIGER'S AND THE
HUGHES HAVE.
>> A LOT OF WEIGHT IS LIFTED OFF
ME RIGHT NOW.
>> I FEEL BETTER.
>> DO YOU FEEL ANY CLOSURE ABOUT
THE VERDICT?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, IT...
IT'S NOT GONNA BRING BACK
HOLLY ANN.
YOU KNOW THAT.
BUT...
[ Voice breaking ] SHE'S
WATCHING.
THAT'S ENOUGH.
>> WELL, THE KILLER HAD A LOT OF
NICKNAMES -- THE PIED PIPER,
HANNIBAL LECHTER, THE BOGEYMAN
OF STATEN ISLAND.
HIS VICTIMS WERE AMONG THE
MOST VULNERABLE.
THEY WERE CHILDREN.
AND TONIGHT, PROSECUTORS ARE
MAKING SURE THAT PREDATOR STAYS
BEHIND BARS.
>> 23 YEARS AGO, THE ENTIRE CITY
WAS TRANSFIXED WITH THE IMAGE OF
AN INNOCENT 7-YEAR-OLD GIRL WHO
DISAPPEARED IN THE BLINK OF AN
EYE.
SADLY, HOLLY ANN HUGHES HAS
NEVER MADE IT HOME.
>> MR. RAND...
>> WHAT THE CONVICTION TODAY
DOES IS ASSURE US THAT
ANDRE RAND WILL DIE IN PRISON.
>> ANDRE RAND WAS SENTENCED 25
YEARS TO LIFE FOR THE KIDNAPPING
OF HOLLY ANN HUGHES.
HE WILL BE ELIGIBLE FOR PAROLE
IN 2037.
HE WILL BE 93 YEARS OLD.
>> OOH.
>> YEAH.
>> NO MATTER HOW HORRIBLE THE
ALLEGATION WAS, THIS CASE WAS
HARDLY A CASE WHERE IT WAS
PROVED CONCLUSIVELY THAT THIS
GUY COMMITTED THIS CRIME.
>> THAT JUST GOES TO SHOW, WHEN
IT COMES TO A CHILD IS HURT, AN
INNOCENT CHILD IS LOST...
YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WANT TO
BASICALLY LYNCH YOU.
AND IF THEY HAD AN OPPORTUNITY
TO LYNCH ANYBODY, THEY WOULD
LYNCH RAND.
>> DID YOU EVER THINK YOU WOULD
GET TO THIS DAY?
>> NO.
>> NO, NEVER THOUGHT I'D GET
HERE.
I DON'T FEEL LIKE I GOT CLOSURE
AT ALL.
YOU KNOW, I MEAN, YOU NEVER GET
CLOSURE, AND THAT'S JUST A
BULLSHIT WORD, TOO.
I MEAN, IT HAPPENED, AND THAT'S
IT.
YOU GOT TO LIVE WITH IT.
YOU HAVE NO CHOICE.
I'D JUST LIKE TO FIND HER
REMAINS AND...
PUT IT TO REST.
>> ACTUALLY, PART OF THE
TESTIMONY IN THIS CASE, HE
CLAIMED THAT WE WERE LOOKING IN
THE WRONG SPOT.
WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT?
I'LL MAKE SURE WE LOOK IN THE
RIGHT SPOT.
>> WHERE WOULD THAT BE?
>> THAT'S WILLOWBROOK.
NOW'S THE TIME TO USE WHAT WE
LEARNED FROM THIS ONE TO REOPEN
ANOTHER ONE OF THE CASES.
I THINK HE LIKES PLAYING THIS
LITTLE HEAD GAME.
I THINK WE'RE GONNA GET LITTLE
HINTS OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS.
YOU KNOW, HE LIKES TO BE THE
CENTER OF ATTENTION, THE ONE
THAT HOLDS -- THE KEEPER OF THE
SECRETS, AND I THINK THAT'S
GONNA PLAY A REAL IMPORTANT
PART.
>> DONNA, JUST SAY YOUR FULL
NAME FOR ME, AND TELL ME AGAIN
THE TITLE OF YOUR ORGANIZATION.
>> OKAY.
IT'S DONNA CUTUGNO. C-U-T-U-G...
>> WAS ANDRE RAND CONVICTED ON
FACT OR FICTION?
WE'LL PROBABLY NEVER KNOW.
BUT FOR THE RESIDENTS OF
STATEN ISLAND, THERE WAS NO
DISTINCTION.
HE WAS THEIR CHILD MURDERER,
THEIR SCAPEGOAT, AND THEIR
BOGEYMAN ALL TIGHTLY WOVEN INTO
ONE.
TO SOME, ANDRE RAND WAS THE
RINGLEADER TO AN UNDERGROUND
COMMUNITY OF OUTCASTS WHO ROAMED
THE WOODS.
TO OTHERS, HE WAS AN UNWITTING
PUPPET, MANIPULATED BY A DEVIANT
CULT THAT TRAFFICKED IN
CHILDREN...
OR A DELUSION MURDERER, FUELED
BY OUR OWN URBAN FAILURES,
KILLING THOSE HE THOUGHT WEREN'T
WORTHY OF LIVING.
WE WILL NEVER KNOW THE REAL
STORY BEHIND ANDRE RAND, SO ALL
WE'RE LEFT WITH IS OUR
VERSION, THAT OF CROPSEY.
BUT NOW WE'VE ADDED ANOTHER
CHAPTER FOR THE NEXT GENERATION
OF KIDS ON STATEN ISLAND.
THE POWER OF THE URBAN LEGEND
IS THAT IT DOESN'T CLAIM TO BE
THE TRUTH, BUT RATHER IT SAYS
THE TRUTH IS A RANGE OF
POSSIBILITIES, AND IT'S THE
AUDIENCE WHO MUST DECIDE.
SO PICK ONE.