1 00:00:01,172 --> 00:00:02,793 [narrator] Previously on Sister Wives... 2 00:00:02,793 --> 00:00:03,896 [Christine] A couple of days ago, 3 00:00:03,896 --> 00:00:06,586 I asked Kody if he can meet me at Salsa Brava. 4 00:00:06,586 --> 00:00:09,620 I really, really would like to have an amiable divorce. 5 00:00:09,620 --> 00:00:11,172 I was laid up with COVID. 6 00:00:11,172 --> 00:00:12,724 I was out of my mind, 7 00:00:12,724 --> 00:00:14,275 - but when I talking about getting anxiety, Christine, - Sorry. I'm sorry. 8 00:00:14,275 --> 00:00:15,482 - and depression. - I know. 9 00:00:15,482 --> 00:00:17,000 And I'm sorry to even laugh a little bit, 10 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:18,172 but Gwendolyn was like... 11 00:00:18,172 --> 00:00:19,724 You're mean that way. It's okay. 12 00:00:19,724 --> 00:00:21,206 I'm... 13 00:00:21,206 --> 00:00:23,448 I just never wanna see her again. 14 00:00:24,793 --> 00:00:26,482 So you're okay with Christmas? 15 00:00:26,482 --> 00:00:28,068 Kody's angry and it's just... 16 00:00:28,068 --> 00:00:29,275 It's not a good time. 17 00:00:29,275 --> 00:00:30,620 Oh, really? 18 00:00:30,620 --> 00:00:32,172 They're not gonna do Christmas together. 19 00:00:32,172 --> 00:00:34,448 Janelle is gonna do Christmas with her kids. 20 00:00:36,172 --> 00:00:38,344 [exhales deeply] The whole thing, frankly, makes me nauseous. 21 00:00:40,172 --> 00:00:41,896 I have somebody in my life 22 00:00:41,896 --> 00:00:44,275 who is fundamentally loyal to me, 23 00:00:45,793 --> 00:00:47,896 who sees me as the head of the family. 24 00:00:47,896 --> 00:00:50,862 I'm saying to you that you and I get that, 25 00:00:51,482 --> 00:00:52,586 if you're loyal to me. 26 00:00:53,310 --> 00:00:55,310 I'm just angry and I'm thinking, 27 00:00:55,310 --> 00:00:56,896 "What the hell am I doing here?" 28 00:01:25,724 --> 00:01:29,103 My brother, Michael, and my dear friend, Nathan, and I like to do man trips. 29 00:01:29,103 --> 00:01:32,793 We've gone out to Brian's place in Oklahoma. 30 00:01:32,793 --> 00:01:34,724 My brother, Michael's, in his mid-30s. 31 00:01:34,724 --> 00:01:36,517 He's a generation younger than me. 32 00:01:36,517 --> 00:01:37,896 I wasn't raised in polygamy. 33 00:01:37,896 --> 00:01:40,482 My mom and dad taught me about polygamy when I was young, 34 00:01:40,482 --> 00:01:42,586 but they didn't become a polygamist until I was an adult. 35 00:01:42,586 --> 00:01:48,172 I have five sisters, and then there were five boys, including me. 36 00:01:48,172 --> 00:01:50,620 Nathan's been a dear friend of mine for years. 37 00:01:50,620 --> 00:01:55,000 He is a fundamentalist Mormon, and he's been married 38 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,482 and divorced in plural marriage. 39 00:01:57,482 --> 00:02:00,275 So he's actually had that experience like mine, 40 00:02:00,275 --> 00:02:03,275 where he's got a wife that he loves at home, 41 00:02:03,275 --> 00:02:06,068 and another wife that he loves who's leaving him. 42 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,310 Brian's not a polygamist. He's mainstream. 43 00:02:09,310 --> 00:02:12,379 Brian was the consummate bachelor, until a year ago. 44 00:02:12,379 --> 00:02:15,724 All I'm thinking about is the fact that she's leaving me, 45 00:02:15,724 --> 00:02:18,068 and I am bitter and I am yelling about it. 46 00:02:18,068 --> 00:02:19,689 I've been whining to these three gentlemen 47 00:02:19,689 --> 00:02:21,896 about my divorce with Christine for a while. 48 00:02:21,896 --> 00:02:23,724 This is like a... 49 00:02:23,724 --> 00:02:26,068 men's group, a therapy session for me. 50 00:02:26,068 --> 00:02:29,793 So, okay. So, like, you know, grief if you have the stages of grief. 51 00:02:29,793 --> 00:02:31,620 And I'm assuming that with divorce, 52 00:02:31,620 --> 00:02:34,482 it's the same type of a thing, 'cause you kept, kind of, 53 00:02:34,482 --> 00:02:37,379 being, like, you know, "I can't really believe this is happening." 54 00:02:37,379 --> 00:02:38,793 It was definitely disbelief. 55 00:02:38,793 --> 00:02:41,586 Yeah. She was, my boxes all out into the garage, 56 00:02:42,275 --> 00:02:44,517 and I was so shocked. 57 00:02:44,517 --> 00:02:46,896 You come home and your stuff's all packed up. 58 00:02:46,896 --> 00:02:48,586 It's like, "What's going on?" 59 00:02:48,586 --> 00:02:49,793 Oh, I'm still at the angry state. 60 00:02:50,620 --> 00:02:51,758 It, it's over now. 61 00:02:52,275 --> 00:02:53,275 Christine's left. 62 00:02:54,172 --> 00:02:56,482 But I'm still feeling a lot of anger about, 63 00:02:57,275 --> 00:02:58,344 sort of, 64 00:02:58,896 --> 00:03:02,482 fall out, sort of, a... civil war with the family. 65 00:03:02,482 --> 00:03:05,689 The very beginning, the first reaction was relief. 66 00:03:05,689 --> 00:03:08,689 I went from that, to, I went to angry. 67 00:03:08,689 --> 00:03:11,482 Because when I started doing this, literally going online, 68 00:03:11,482 --> 00:03:14,068 and trying to research if you're getting a divorce. How do you, 69 00:03:14,413 --> 00:03:15,931 sort of, 70 00:03:15,931 --> 00:03:19,275 how do you manage keeping things amiable with kids and stuff like that? 71 00:03:19,275 --> 00:03:22,379 And what it is, is just, there, there's a really big, 72 00:03:22,379 --> 00:03:24,206 like, walk away from women movement, 73 00:03:24,206 --> 00:03:27,103 and it's about angry man who have been left. 74 00:03:27,103 --> 00:03:29,275 And I think that might have been a touch of poison, 75 00:03:29,275 --> 00:03:30,517 'cause I got angry. 76 00:03:30,517 --> 00:03:33,482 So I'm going around to Robyn and to Janelle. 77 00:03:33,482 --> 00:03:36,068 And they feel like I'm the woman here. 78 00:03:36,068 --> 00:03:37,379 Like, Robyn actually said, 79 00:03:37,379 --> 00:03:40,275 "This is affecting our relationship in a terrible way." 80 00:03:40,275 --> 00:03:42,379 [Robyn] I mean, like, I've witnessed Kody's... 81 00:03:42,379 --> 00:03:44,896 process... through this divorce. 82 00:03:44,896 --> 00:03:46,413 And he's all over the place. 83 00:03:46,413 --> 00:03:50,620 I mean, one minute he's angry, another minute he's... very upset and sad. 84 00:03:50,620 --> 00:03:53,586 And then another minute, he's, like, in his peaceful place, 85 00:03:53,586 --> 00:03:56,172 where he's like, "Maybe this was meant to be," 86 00:03:56,172 --> 00:03:58,068 and then he goes back to the angry thing again, so. 87 00:03:58,068 --> 00:03:59,724 You're, like, sitting there, talking to him, 88 00:03:59,724 --> 00:04:02,172 and he's just goes down this, kind of, crazy wild ride 89 00:04:02,172 --> 00:04:05,379 and all of a sudden, you're on the Kody Coaster. Ah! 90 00:04:05,379 --> 00:04:06,896 It's scary. 91 00:04:07,724 --> 00:04:10,793 The thing I, kind of, wanna express to you is when you encountered anger. 92 00:04:10,793 --> 00:04:12,206 The root of anger is in two things. 93 00:04:12,206 --> 00:04:13,896 It's either in fear, 94 00:04:13,896 --> 00:04:16,275 or it's in self-delusion or self-deception. 95 00:04:16,275 --> 00:04:18,379 You have to look in the mirror, 96 00:04:18,379 --> 00:04:20,620 and see the good, the bad and the ugly. 97 00:04:20,620 --> 00:04:23,172 And... and own everything completely. 98 00:04:23,172 --> 00:04:25,482 I'm still in self-deception, I can tell. 99 00:04:25,482 --> 00:04:28,172 So there, there was this moment when I... 100 00:04:28,172 --> 00:04:29,896 When Christine told me she didn't want us... 101 00:04:29,896 --> 00:04:31,310 Want me staying at her place anymore, 102 00:04:31,310 --> 00:04:32,724 where I was ambivalent. 103 00:04:32,724 --> 00:04:34,310 The reason I was ambivalent, 104 00:04:34,310 --> 00:04:35,724 I think, was literally because I thought 105 00:04:35,724 --> 00:04:36,793 she was playing a game. 106 00:04:37,896 --> 00:04:39,724 So her being gone, relief. 107 00:04:39,724 --> 00:04:42,172 The fallout with the whole family is grief. 108 00:04:42,172 --> 00:04:44,172 The sadness that kids struggle with, 109 00:04:44,172 --> 00:04:47,172 I mean, I think the biggest fantasy any child has, 110 00:04:47,172 --> 00:04:48,724 is that mom and dad love each other 111 00:04:48,724 --> 00:04:49,862 all their lives long. 112 00:04:51,896 --> 00:04:53,724 I don't know, it's just... 113 00:04:53,724 --> 00:04:56,000 The whole breakup, the divorce is, 114 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:00,379 "Oh, now I've got this check mark of shame." 115 00:05:00,379 --> 00:05:04,482 Who wants to roll the dice and marriage will be 50-50. 116 00:05:04,482 --> 00:05:07,379 Maybe this is gonna work out, maybe it isn't. 117 00:05:07,379 --> 00:05:09,724 COVID has changed a lot of things in our society. 118 00:05:09,724 --> 00:05:10,896 We were just talking about this today. 119 00:05:10,896 --> 00:05:12,896 We have another friend that just got divorced. 120 00:05:12,896 --> 00:05:14,482 Being together during COVID, 121 00:05:15,103 --> 00:05:16,241 they couldn't take each other. 122 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,724 I always, uh, encourage Kody 123 00:05:19,724 --> 00:05:23,793 to have his guy time. I think it's important. 124 00:05:23,793 --> 00:05:25,172 Everybody needs that. 125 00:05:25,172 --> 00:05:26,620 You know, women need women time, 126 00:05:26,620 --> 00:05:28,517 and men need men time. 127 00:05:28,517 --> 00:05:31,310 When we lived in Utah, he did it fairly regularly. 128 00:05:31,310 --> 00:05:33,793 We used to call it, "Testosterone Tuesday." 129 00:05:33,793 --> 00:05:37,310 Polygamy, um, literally, it could be a gift, 130 00:05:37,310 --> 00:05:39,482 where it dilutes personality. 131 00:05:39,482 --> 00:05:41,068 But if I'm married to this woman, 132 00:05:41,068 --> 00:05:42,172 she's really cantankerous. 133 00:05:42,172 --> 00:05:45,172 I don't enjoy her, but I can't leave. 134 00:05:45,172 --> 00:05:46,379 It'd be nice to have another wife, 135 00:05:46,379 --> 00:05:48,379 'cause then I can get away from her for a little bit. 136 00:05:48,379 --> 00:05:51,793 Or, it 'd be nice if I'm the one who's cantankerous 137 00:05:51,793 --> 00:05:53,000 She's thinking, 138 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:54,379 "It's be nice if you had another wife, 139 00:05:54,379 --> 00:05:56,068 so I can get a break from you." 140 00:05:56,068 --> 00:05:57,448 He hit it on the nose. 141 00:05:59,172 --> 00:06:01,206 And then if you dilute it more and more and more, 142 00:06:01,206 --> 00:06:03,000 - I mean... - We might go both ways. 143 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:04,482 [laughing] Go both ways. 144 00:06:04,482 --> 00:06:07,000 That kind of comment just makes me wanna vomit. 145 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,724 Maybe you should look at the whole big picture then, 146 00:06:10,724 --> 00:06:12,689 in a situation like that, 147 00:06:12,689 --> 00:06:15,482 and figure out how you can work together 148 00:06:15,482 --> 00:06:16,482 and be together, 149 00:06:16,482 --> 00:06:19,241 instead of using somebody else as an escape. 150 00:06:19,724 --> 00:06:21,172 Are you kidding me? 151 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:23,482 How will it be for you 152 00:06:23,482 --> 00:06:26,724 if Christine enters into another relationship? 153 00:06:26,724 --> 00:06:29,000 I might feel funny when that happens. 154 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,724 I might get jealous when that happens. 155 00:06:31,724 --> 00:06:34,689 I mean, I feel betrayed. No doubt. 156 00:06:34,689 --> 00:06:37,586 But I'm also, like, going, "Well, have a good life." 157 00:06:38,172 --> 00:06:39,620 I mean, what can I do? 158 00:06:39,620 --> 00:06:42,344 I'm not gonna be bothered when another guy is in her life. 159 00:06:43,172 --> 00:06:44,103 I don't think. 160 00:06:45,413 --> 00:06:47,793 Like, what would you have done different, 161 00:06:47,793 --> 00:06:50,689 to save the marriage? 162 00:06:50,689 --> 00:06:55,172 There was one time in my life when I realized the biggest mistake I made, 163 00:06:55,172 --> 00:06:58,896 was Christine was, kind of, in this... disconnect situation, 164 00:06:58,896 --> 00:07:02,724 where she was telling me how much she hated polygamy. 165 00:07:02,724 --> 00:07:06,793 And my mistake was, when she was saying, "I hate polygamy," 166 00:07:07,517 --> 00:07:10,103 I was going, "What the hell? 167 00:07:10,103 --> 00:07:12,068 You wouldn't have a family. 168 00:07:12,068 --> 00:07:14,862 You wouldn't have me, you wouldn't have our children." 169 00:07:15,896 --> 00:07:18,482 Instead of saying, "I know it's hard, baby. 170 00:07:19,103 --> 00:07:20,482 I'm sorry. 171 00:07:20,482 --> 00:07:22,689 I love you and I wish it didn't hurt." 172 00:07:24,068 --> 00:07:25,724 No. It wasn't just hating polygamy, 173 00:07:25,724 --> 00:07:27,241 it was realizing that... 174 00:07:27,689 --> 00:07:30,620 after I gave so much, 175 00:07:30,620 --> 00:07:31,896 and I did anything he wanted. 176 00:07:31,896 --> 00:07:34,793 And anything he wanted me to do, I did. 177 00:07:34,793 --> 00:07:37,172 And, but when I needed help, he said, "No." 178 00:07:38,103 --> 00:07:40,482 They're not just my kids and my responsibility. 179 00:07:40,482 --> 00:07:42,172 They're our children. 180 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,689 He's an amazing super dad helping Robyn. 181 00:07:45,689 --> 00:07:48,413 He immediately started helping Robyn with everything, 182 00:07:48,413 --> 00:07:50,068 as soon as she came in the family. 183 00:07:50,068 --> 00:07:51,517 Back in the house in Lehi, Utah, 184 00:07:51,517 --> 00:07:53,206 I was working 60 hours a week. 185 00:07:53,206 --> 00:07:54,379 Christine was asking for things 186 00:07:54,379 --> 00:07:56,896 that plural marriage didn't really afford. 187 00:07:56,896 --> 00:07:57,896 Women, generally, 188 00:07:57,896 --> 00:07:59,413 and those are certainly not things 189 00:07:59,413 --> 00:08:01,379 that Robyn ever got. 190 00:08:01,379 --> 00:08:04,172 [Robyn] Parenting is never easy in plural marriage. 191 00:08:04,172 --> 00:08:07,689 Kody's gone, three-fourths of the time. 192 00:08:07,689 --> 00:08:09,620 And that's why I had child care help, 193 00:08:09,620 --> 00:08:11,620 'cause I can't ask Kody for that, kind of, help. 194 00:08:11,620 --> 00:08:13,517 He's got too much on his plate. 195 00:08:13,517 --> 00:08:15,482 If Christine called tomorrow and said, 196 00:08:16,206 --> 00:08:17,655 "I wanna sit down and talk about this." 197 00:08:19,379 --> 00:08:20,275 Would you be there? 198 00:08:20,275 --> 00:08:21,620 I'd have to go, "Okay." 199 00:08:21,620 --> 00:08:23,000 Oh, anger down, 200 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,172 but I feel like I've been humbled enough by this experience to say, 201 00:08:26,172 --> 00:08:28,000 "Uh, yeah, Christine." 202 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,586 Uh, 'cause I did some things wrong. 203 00:08:31,068 --> 00:08:32,275 I wanna acknowledge it. 204 00:08:32,896 --> 00:08:33,862 Say, "I'm sorry." 205 00:08:36,172 --> 00:08:37,379 And... 206 00:08:37,379 --> 00:08:39,896 You know, uh, essentially set you free. 207 00:08:39,896 --> 00:08:43,034 Now, you know, looking into your other marriages, 208 00:08:43,517 --> 00:08:45,896 you will know what not to do. 209 00:08:45,896 --> 00:08:46,793 A hundred percent. 210 00:08:46,793 --> 00:08:48,586 This is the biggest lesson I've gotten 211 00:08:48,586 --> 00:08:51,000 from the experience in the divorce, 212 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:56,172 is that anger is a sword that stabs indiscriminately. 213 00:08:56,172 --> 00:08:58,862 My anger was affecting everybody else. 214 00:08:59,172 --> 00:09:00,482 Yeah. 215 00:09:00,482 --> 00:09:02,896 Like, the kids were like, "Mom, what have I done to dad?" 216 00:09:02,896 --> 00:09:05,862 And my wives were going, "What have I done to you?" 217 00:09:06,482 --> 00:09:07,793 You know, like, and I'm there. 218 00:09:08,482 --> 00:09:09,275 Boys... 219 00:09:09,620 --> 00:09:11,517 what an experience. 220 00:09:11,517 --> 00:09:15,068 My anger has affected my relationship with Robyn. 221 00:09:15,068 --> 00:09:19,517 Um, it's affected my relationship with Janelle very much. 222 00:09:19,517 --> 00:09:21,517 I think Janelle's on the defensive now. 223 00:09:21,517 --> 00:09:24,793 And I can't figure out why and I, if I reflect for a little bit, 224 00:09:24,793 --> 00:09:26,206 it's like, "Oh, I've been really angry." 225 00:09:26,206 --> 00:09:29,586 I'm challenged with my relationship with Janelle right now, but... 226 00:09:29,586 --> 00:09:33,689 I think, you know, once we get some things worked out, we'll be fine. 227 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:39,586 And the boys were asking if you've thought, 228 00:09:39,586 --> 00:09:40,620 that you've thought that you would come over 229 00:09:40,620 --> 00:09:42,379 - and I said, it wasn't optimistic. - No. 230 00:09:42,379 --> 00:09:43,620 No, I'm not coming over. 231 00:09:43,620 --> 00:09:45,310 It's, like, I have a house. I have a place 232 00:09:45,310 --> 00:09:46,586 where we would have Christmas. 233 00:09:46,586 --> 00:09:48,379 Kody hasn't called them, they haven't called him. 234 00:09:48,379 --> 00:09:51,000 So I can see that this is not gonna resolve itself. 235 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:52,793 Janelle, I saw you right there, 236 00:09:52,793 --> 00:09:54,172 mark my rules. 237 00:09:54,172 --> 00:09:56,482 Well, and I've seen you call me all kinds of names. 238 00:09:56,482 --> 00:09:58,896 I'm tired of being gaslit by you. 239 00:09:58,896 --> 00:10:00,517 You are gaslighting me. 240 00:10:00,517 --> 00:10:02,413 So listen, you really need to stop 241 00:10:02,413 --> 00:10:04,172 throwing me under the bus, okay? 242 00:10:04,172 --> 00:10:06,000 Okay. You know what, then you stop throwing me. 243 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,344 You act like this is my fault. 244 00:10:17,275 --> 00:10:18,862 Before Thanksgiving, we had a conversation 245 00:10:18,862 --> 00:10:20,000 in Robyn's backyard, 246 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,379 where it became apparent to me, at least, that it was... 247 00:10:23,379 --> 00:10:25,482 I was gonna need to do a separate holiday 248 00:10:25,482 --> 00:10:26,931 with my kids. 249 00:10:26,931 --> 00:10:28,931 Kody's been out of town for a week or so, 250 00:10:28,931 --> 00:10:30,482 so he's gonna come over. 251 00:10:30,482 --> 00:10:32,758 And I just really need to make sure he understands 252 00:10:32,758 --> 00:10:34,862 that I'm doing something separate for Christmas. 253 00:10:34,862 --> 00:10:37,000 I, kind of, need to finalize those plans with him. 254 00:10:39,172 --> 00:10:40,379 Hey. 255 00:10:40,379 --> 00:10:41,862 It's winter out there. 256 00:10:41,862 --> 00:10:43,482 Janelle and I have really been struggling. 257 00:10:43,482 --> 00:10:45,896 At the same time, I'm, sort of, being in this place, 258 00:10:45,896 --> 00:10:47,482 where I, kind of, feel like I'm begging 259 00:10:47,482 --> 00:10:48,551 for something deeper. 260 00:10:49,862 --> 00:10:50,758 Oh, brr. 261 00:10:53,103 --> 00:10:54,896 Drinking my water hot these days, 262 00:10:54,896 --> 00:10:58,172 because there's no decent way to stay warm. 263 00:11:01,482 --> 00:11:02,758 What you doing? 264 00:11:05,379 --> 00:11:06,379 Work. 265 00:11:06,379 --> 00:11:07,758 - Little bit. Work, little bit. - [Kody] What? 266 00:11:10,896 --> 00:11:12,000 Oh. 267 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:13,862 You know, it's like, I see the writing on the wall. 268 00:11:13,862 --> 00:11:16,517 This whole thing happened with Christine and, uh... 269 00:11:16,517 --> 00:11:18,862 I don't wanna be in that place with Janelle. 270 00:11:20,103 --> 00:11:23,241 It feels like Janelle's been completely insensitive to that. 271 00:11:28,862 --> 00:11:30,827 You guys have a very tiny Christmas tree. 272 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,000 Yeah. I'm gonna actually take it with me to the BnB. 273 00:11:36,172 --> 00:11:36,965 So... 274 00:11:36,965 --> 00:11:38,517 I'm treading really lightly here, 275 00:11:38,517 --> 00:11:40,620 'cause I can't get a read on Kody. 276 00:11:40,620 --> 00:11:43,103 We've never had a discussion about the separate holiday. 277 00:11:43,103 --> 00:11:45,482 The last discussion we really had about it, 278 00:11:45,482 --> 00:11:48,827 was... on Robyn's porch. 279 00:11:49,862 --> 00:11:51,000 What are you doing for Christmas? 280 00:11:51,586 --> 00:11:52,586 I'm here. 281 00:11:52,586 --> 00:11:53,862 - [Janelle] Are ya? - Yeah. 282 00:11:53,862 --> 00:11:55,275 [Janelle] What about your kids? Who of your kids are coming? 283 00:11:55,275 --> 00:11:57,241 - Where are you going for Christmas? - Here. I'm here, 284 00:11:57,689 --> 00:11:58,758 but my kids... 285 00:11:59,275 --> 00:12:00,758 they're renting an Airbnb. 286 00:12:00,758 --> 00:12:02,000 I don't think they're 287 00:12:03,689 --> 00:12:05,931 - welcome... - I never said my kids weren't welcomed. 288 00:12:05,931 --> 00:12:08,551 - If they apologize, and they're, kind of, like... - No. No. 289 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,000 I completely reverse that. 290 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:11,172 I said, "Oh, we've gotta do this, 291 00:12:11,172 --> 00:12:12,586 be able to have a conversation, 292 00:12:12,586 --> 00:12:15,482 so we're not sitting here in our house like a bunch of alcoholics, 293 00:12:15,482 --> 00:12:17,482 that had a fight last night and forgot it happened." 294 00:12:17,482 --> 00:12:21,000 So they're getting, kind of, a rental home here in Flagstaff. 295 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:22,827 Yeah, 'cause everybody's coming this year. 296 00:12:23,172 --> 00:12:24,275 Everybody is? 297 00:12:24,275 --> 00:12:26,482 Yeah. Not Maddie and Kayla, but everybody else is. 298 00:12:26,482 --> 00:12:28,241 - Everybody is coming? - Yep. 299 00:12:29,689 --> 00:12:32,000 - So... - And I'm just finding this out? 300 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,758 Kody, you're the one who said they can't come, 301 00:12:33,758 --> 00:12:35,758 - until they apologize. - I didn't say that. 302 00:12:35,758 --> 00:12:37,172 - You said... Last time we talked, - I didn't... No. No. No. 303 00:12:37,172 --> 00:12:38,482 you said they can't come until they apologize. 304 00:12:38,482 --> 00:12:41,275 Listen, you and I need to communicate some more, 'cause I... 305 00:12:41,275 --> 00:12:43,586 That's what you said. You've said that to me multiple times. 306 00:12:43,586 --> 00:12:45,172 "They need to apologize." 307 00:12:45,172 --> 00:12:48,172 But there's been no movement... on either side. 308 00:12:48,172 --> 00:12:50,482 Kody hasn't called them, they haven't called him. 309 00:12:50,482 --> 00:12:52,827 So I can see that this is not gonna resolve itself. 310 00:12:53,862 --> 00:12:55,620 - So you're taking that to the BnB? - [Janelle] Yeah. 311 00:12:55,620 --> 00:12:57,586 I bought a small one for the apartment. 312 00:12:57,586 --> 00:12:58,862 How big is the BnB? 313 00:12:58,862 --> 00:13:00,344 [Janelle] It's... like a, just a house. 314 00:13:01,275 --> 00:13:02,068 So... 315 00:13:02,689 --> 00:13:05,000 Hunter gets here Monday. 316 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:06,413 And then he's just gonna stay at the apartment. 317 00:13:06,413 --> 00:13:07,896 - Here? - [Janelle] Mmm-hmm. 318 00:13:07,896 --> 00:13:08,862 - He's gonna stay here? - [Janelle] He can sleep at one of your mattress, 319 00:13:08,862 --> 00:13:09,965 or something. 320 00:13:10,758 --> 00:13:13,689 [Kody] This whole house thing that they're doing, 321 00:13:13,689 --> 00:13:16,103 I don't know, as much as it's probably my fault, 322 00:13:16,103 --> 00:13:18,344 it's like a knife right through my heart. 323 00:13:18,896 --> 00:13:20,862 This Christmas tree, 324 00:13:20,862 --> 00:13:23,862 it's like the complete degradation of our family unit. 325 00:13:23,862 --> 00:13:25,896 I'm trying to hide this. I don't... 326 00:13:25,896 --> 00:13:28,413 I don't, I'm just overwhelmed by it. 327 00:13:28,413 --> 00:13:30,758 And I feel the adrenaline rushing in to me. 328 00:13:30,758 --> 00:13:33,448 It's just absolutely heart-breaking to me. 329 00:13:37,862 --> 00:13:40,172 So Hunter's coming Monday, and he's just staying here. 330 00:13:40,172 --> 00:13:41,172 When are you getting the... 331 00:13:42,172 --> 00:13:43,482 - The... - Starts on the... 332 00:13:43,482 --> 00:13:45,000 Are you getting the BnB? 333 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:46,689 - Um... - The short-term rental? 334 00:13:46,689 --> 00:13:49,000 Yeah. Christine and I are sharing it, 335 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,000 'cause Christine's coming after Christmas. 336 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,275 Mmm-hmm. 337 00:13:53,275 --> 00:13:55,551 'Cause she said Ysabel truly wanna see you. 338 00:13:56,379 --> 00:13:57,241 Yeah. 339 00:13:57,379 --> 00:13:58,172 But... 340 00:13:59,103 --> 00:14:00,482 And the boys were asking, 341 00:14:00,482 --> 00:14:02,103 if you thought, that you've thought that you would come over, 342 00:14:02,103 --> 00:14:03,896 - and I said it wasn't optimistic. - No. 343 00:14:03,896 --> 00:14:05,413 No. I'm not coming over. 344 00:14:05,413 --> 00:14:08,275 It's, I have a house, so I have a place where we would have Christmas. 345 00:14:08,275 --> 00:14:09,758 But you put stipulations on it. 346 00:14:09,758 --> 00:14:11,034 [Kody] No, No, Janelle. 347 00:14:11,034 --> 00:14:12,931 - You put stipulations on it, Kody. - [Kody] All I wanna do, 348 00:14:12,931 --> 00:14:14,758 is talk to them. 349 00:14:14,758 --> 00:14:15,862 - We're not... - [Janelle] You told me... 350 00:14:15,862 --> 00:14:18,275 No. No. You can write down all you want... 351 00:14:18,275 --> 00:14:19,655 [Janelle] Okay. You know what, 352 00:14:19,655 --> 00:14:21,931 - you keep flipping it on me. - [Kody] I corrected that completely. 353 00:14:21,931 --> 00:14:24,275 No you didn't, well, too late. 354 00:14:24,275 --> 00:14:26,172 - I had already told them. - How is that too late? 355 00:14:26,172 --> 00:14:29,000 [Janelle] I already told them that unless they apologized, 356 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:30,172 that they weren't gonna be able to come 357 00:14:30,172 --> 00:14:31,758 - to Christmas. - [Kody] Oh, you didn't correct it? 358 00:14:31,758 --> 00:14:35,517 So what kind of conversation could happen without my boys issuing an apology 359 00:14:35,517 --> 00:14:39,172 to make it "safe" for them to get together to have a conversation 360 00:14:39,172 --> 00:14:41,862 They're gonna, the mechanics are the same. 361 00:14:41,862 --> 00:14:44,275 - See, you always... - You're not representing very well for me. 362 00:14:44,275 --> 00:14:45,931 - Stop representing for me. - [Janelle] You put this back... 363 00:14:45,931 --> 00:14:47,482 Well, then you call them, Kody, 364 00:14:47,482 --> 00:14:49,482 - 'cause you always put it back on me. - [Kody] I... 365 00:14:49,482 --> 00:14:50,862 That phone goes both ways. 366 00:14:50,862 --> 00:14:52,275 - [Janelle] You put it back on me. - And I've been available 367 00:14:52,275 --> 00:14:53,068 to talk to them. 368 00:14:53,068 --> 00:14:54,482 You know, it still surprises me 369 00:14:54,482 --> 00:14:56,689 that Kody feels like it's my responsibility 370 00:14:56,689 --> 00:15:00,103 to facilitate this relationship between he and my children. 371 00:15:00,103 --> 00:15:02,172 He's a parent as much as I am. 372 00:15:02,172 --> 00:15:03,379 You are always, 373 00:15:03,379 --> 00:15:05,931 all this stuff, you're always flipping it back on me. 374 00:15:05,931 --> 00:15:08,413 - It's because it belongs on you, Janelle. - [Janelle] No, it does not. 375 00:15:08,413 --> 00:15:09,655 Why does it belong on me? 376 00:15:10,689 --> 00:15:12,517 Why does it belong on me? 377 00:15:12,517 --> 00:15:14,689 Because you didn't support my stand 378 00:15:14,689 --> 00:15:17,172 when it came to, actually, doing the COVID stuff. 379 00:15:17,172 --> 00:15:19,586 [Janelle] Kody, I was protecting my children, and you have said, 380 00:15:19,586 --> 00:15:22,275 "Choose your loyalties, or you're not gonna have a husband." 381 00:15:22,275 --> 00:15:25,000 So I'm supposed to choose between you and our children? 382 00:15:25,931 --> 00:15:27,275 - That's what you basically said. - You know what, 383 00:15:27,275 --> 00:15:29,758 all you have to do is support what I'm doing. 384 00:15:29,758 --> 00:15:33,000 Do you understand that parents are supposed to make a united front? 385 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,586 I'm now being accused of everything he just accused Christina, 386 00:15:36,586 --> 00:15:38,620 and a lot of what he accused Meri of. 387 00:15:38,620 --> 00:15:42,689 - Janelle, you knew rules. - [Janelle] You keep acting like this is my fault. 388 00:15:42,689 --> 00:15:43,931 - You did not give us... - [Kody] And you... 389 00:15:43,931 --> 00:15:46,172 - any rules. - [Kody] undermine them 390 00:15:46,172 --> 00:15:48,758 Everyday we talked about what that were. 391 00:15:48,758 --> 00:15:50,758 [Janelle] No. You didn't give us the list, until November. 392 00:15:50,758 --> 00:15:53,103 The list was nothing. We were already talking about it, 393 00:15:53,103 --> 00:15:55,103 and everybody was denying it, anyway. 394 00:15:55,103 --> 00:15:58,000 Listen. I'm tired of being gaslit by you. 395 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,413 You are gaslighting me. 396 00:16:00,413 --> 00:16:03,103 This, like, all this, "I feel so pressured" [bleep] 397 00:16:03,103 --> 00:16:04,862 This is you saying, I don't wanna do it, 398 00:16:04,862 --> 00:16:06,931 but I'm gonna make it your fault. 399 00:16:06,931 --> 00:16:09,931 So listen, you really need to stop throwing me under the bus. 400 00:16:09,931 --> 00:16:11,482 Okay? 401 00:16:11,482 --> 00:16:14,586 Okay. You know what, then you stop throwing me. You act like this is my fault. 402 00:16:14,586 --> 00:16:18,379 You have somehow set me up, it's like the Teflon Queen. Isn't that what you said? 403 00:16:18,379 --> 00:16:21,172 Uh, yes, because you won't take responsibility... 404 00:16:21,172 --> 00:16:23,275 - Kody, I did nothing, - [Kody] ... for your own actions. 405 00:16:23,275 --> 00:16:24,586 I sat at home. 406 00:16:24,586 --> 00:16:26,000 I did what I was supposed to do. 407 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,275 - But it wasn't ever good enough for you. - Janelle, 408 00:16:27,275 --> 00:16:29,758 - This is all I need. - You wanted me to kick the boys out. 409 00:16:30,758 --> 00:16:32,275 This is all I need, 410 00:16:32,275 --> 00:16:35,379 is to not sit here and pretend that at Christmas time, nothing's wrong. 411 00:16:35,379 --> 00:16:36,758 You act like this is not your fault. 412 00:16:36,758 --> 00:16:38,172 [Kody] Do you want this relationship... 413 00:16:38,172 --> 00:16:39,586 - ...between you and I to work? - I don't know. Do you, 414 00:16:39,586 --> 00:16:41,655 because when you say choose your loyalties, 415 00:16:42,379 --> 00:16:44,000 choose between me and your children... 416 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,482 Now you are literally gaslighting. 417 00:16:46,482 --> 00:16:48,275 - [Kody] I was only asking everybody - I am not. 418 00:16:48,275 --> 00:16:50,827 - I... - to obey the rules of our home. 419 00:16:51,482 --> 00:16:53,241 I agree to the CDC rules. 420 00:16:53,689 --> 00:16:55,000 You had more, 421 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:56,896 and it was never good enough, Kody. 422 00:16:56,896 --> 00:16:59,655 I wasn't gonna turn my boys out in the middle of a pandemic. 423 00:17:01,275 --> 00:17:05,275 They chose to have their social lives, 424 00:17:05,275 --> 00:17:09,000 You keep circumventing the culpability here, 425 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,482 and you keep wanting to put it on me. 426 00:17:11,482 --> 00:17:13,241 - And you are wrong. - No. 427 00:17:13,689 --> 00:17:14,931 - Listen. - Dead wrong. 428 00:17:14,931 --> 00:17:16,793 This goes beyond you saying, 429 00:17:16,793 --> 00:17:20,000 "Whoa, we are an alcoholic family and we're shoving everything." 430 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:21,758 Kody, it goes beyond that. 431 00:17:21,758 --> 00:17:24,413 COVID, you got COVID and now all of a sudden, there's this new rule 432 00:17:24,413 --> 00:17:25,931 that the family can't get together. 433 00:17:26,758 --> 00:17:27,758 What new rule? 434 00:17:27,758 --> 00:17:29,862 That the boys have to... and say they're sorry. 435 00:17:29,862 --> 00:17:31,931 Janelle, I corrected that and you know it. 436 00:17:31,931 --> 00:17:33,586 - So stop using that one. - [Janelle] No, because... 437 00:17:33,586 --> 00:17:35,172 You're hanging your hat on that one, 438 00:17:35,172 --> 00:17:36,586 - and you're wrong. - Because you yelled at me 439 00:17:36,586 --> 00:17:38,758 for many, many times you yelled at me. 440 00:17:38,758 --> 00:17:39,931 Two times we had a conversation. 441 00:17:39,931 --> 00:17:42,620 I'm not allowed to be angry over this entire experience? 442 00:17:42,620 --> 00:17:45,586 - And I'm not allowed to... - The lack of loyalty, the lack of trust, 443 00:17:45,586 --> 00:17:48,275 the lies, the, the gaslighting, 444 00:17:48,275 --> 00:17:50,275 - You're gaslighting me, Kody. - I am not. 445 00:17:50,275 --> 00:17:51,586 Yes, you are. 446 00:17:51,586 --> 00:17:54,275 So what I doing, I'm trying to make you actually be responsible 447 00:17:54,275 --> 00:17:56,000 in a relationship. 448 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:57,689 - What have I done? - [Kody] I'm not flipping the script. 449 00:17:57,689 --> 00:17:59,689 What have I done? 450 00:17:59,689 --> 00:18:02,758 I'm not talking about the rules that I made for Christmas time, 451 00:18:02,758 --> 00:18:04,310 because that was necessary, 452 00:18:04,310 --> 00:18:07,517 because nobody was really being honest about what they were doing anyway. 453 00:18:07,517 --> 00:18:10,482 But you and Robyn are the paragons of honesty and perfection? 454 00:18:12,689 --> 00:18:14,379 You know what, I just thought it was hypocritical 455 00:18:14,379 --> 00:18:16,862 to make one family do everything that I wanted, 456 00:18:16,862 --> 00:18:18,379 and not have everybody else do it. 457 00:18:18,379 --> 00:18:20,482 I asked for the rules, clear back in March. 458 00:18:20,482 --> 00:18:21,793 - Asked for them. - [Kody] Janelle, listen. 459 00:18:21,793 --> 00:18:24,172 Asked for them and you were like, "Everybody do what they want." 460 00:18:24,172 --> 00:18:26,172 I said, "Here's the rules" all the time. 461 00:18:26,172 --> 00:18:27,620 Gabriel knew the rules all the time. 462 00:18:27,620 --> 00:18:29,275 That's why I'm saying he's gaslighting, 463 00:18:29,275 --> 00:18:33,000 'cause we talked about it every single day we were having a conversation. 464 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,827 Kody, I think this is deeper than that. 465 00:18:35,586 --> 00:18:37,689 This is way deeper than that. 466 00:18:37,689 --> 00:18:40,172 The kids are very frustrated for a lot of reasons. 467 00:18:40,172 --> 00:18:41,586 You're acting like it's just they're... 468 00:18:41,586 --> 00:18:44,172 That they disrespected you for COVID. 469 00:18:44,172 --> 00:18:46,689 - That this whole "You need to apologize" - They were lying. 470 00:18:46,689 --> 00:18:48,620 - You need to apologize to Robyn. - [Kody] I... 471 00:18:48,620 --> 00:18:50,620 I corrected that pretty strongly. 472 00:18:50,620 --> 00:18:52,379 [Janelle] You need to apologize to the family, 473 00:18:52,379 --> 00:18:55,379 - to Robyn. - For blaming Robyn for, for what was going on? 474 00:18:55,379 --> 00:18:57,172 They literally blamed Robyn, 475 00:18:57,172 --> 00:18:58,482 and they sit there and they admitted they blamed her. 476 00:18:58,482 --> 00:19:01,379 But, and when you were gone for four, five months, Kody, 477 00:19:01,379 --> 00:19:04,103 - they started to get angry. - Janelle, I wasn't gone for four or five months, 478 00:19:04,103 --> 00:19:07,586 and you know that as well. And that's an exaggeration, and a lie. 479 00:19:21,379 --> 00:19:24,000 Do you understand that you lied? 480 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:25,482 That's the reason I call you the Teflon Queen. 481 00:19:25,482 --> 00:19:26,965 I do not lie. 482 00:19:26,965 --> 00:19:28,965 'Cause you're lying about what has happened and what's been going on. 483 00:19:28,965 --> 00:19:30,551 It's wild to me that you think I lied, 484 00:19:30,551 --> 00:19:32,172 because I think you're manipulating. 485 00:19:34,379 --> 00:19:35,482 Well... 486 00:19:35,482 --> 00:19:36,965 tell me how I'm manipulating. 487 00:19:36,965 --> 00:19:39,172 Oh, no. No. No. Tell the whole world. 488 00:19:39,586 --> 00:19:41,103 Tell the world, 489 00:19:41,103 --> 00:19:43,000 and then go hang out with your buddy, Christine. 490 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:45,344 Tell the world... 491 00:19:45,344 --> 00:19:47,655 how I've lied, how I've manipulated, 492 00:19:47,655 --> 00:19:48,931 how I've done you wrong. 493 00:19:49,758 --> 00:19:51,758 Oh, and, and she loves to sit 494 00:19:51,758 --> 00:19:53,344 right here, right here. 495 00:19:53,344 --> 00:19:55,172 You know, [bleep] talk me, 496 00:19:55,172 --> 00:19:57,103 without ever having that conversation with me 497 00:19:57,103 --> 00:19:58,172 to my face. 498 00:19:59,275 --> 00:20:01,000 Yeah. I mean, this is one thing 499 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,724 about being public and our lives being recorded, 500 00:20:04,275 --> 00:20:05,689 is we hear things 501 00:20:05,689 --> 00:20:07,655 that we don't say to each other's faces. 502 00:20:08,689 --> 00:20:10,965 I made all the efforts to love them. 503 00:20:10,965 --> 00:20:13,103 I made the efforts to join them together. 504 00:20:13,103 --> 00:20:15,103 I made the efforts to make everything work. 505 00:20:15,103 --> 00:20:16,275 I made the effort. 506 00:20:16,275 --> 00:20:20,103 I was atlas carrying this... family on my shoulders. 507 00:20:20,103 --> 00:20:22,413 And the minute that I shrugged it off, 508 00:20:25,655 --> 00:20:28,655 Kody, I think you're trying to do this all to justify... 509 00:20:28,655 --> 00:20:30,068 - Christine is gone... - [Kody] What am I justifying? 510 00:20:30,068 --> 00:20:32,172 - ...You're pushing me out the door. - [Kody] What am I justifying? 511 00:20:32,172 --> 00:20:34,275 You're now pushing me out the door. 512 00:20:34,275 --> 00:20:36,344 - No, I'm not. - [Janelle scoffs] 513 00:20:36,344 --> 00:20:37,758 - Looks like it. - Didn't I show up here? 514 00:20:37,758 --> 00:20:39,551 Choose between my children and me. 515 00:20:39,551 --> 00:20:41,586 Kody, it's been a week. You were gone a week. 516 00:20:41,586 --> 00:20:43,103 And you don't call, you don't come, 517 00:20:43,103 --> 00:20:44,551 I don't ever know when you're gonna come. 518 00:20:44,551 --> 00:20:46,482 It's like you're just doing this really weird-- 519 00:20:46,482 --> 00:20:48,862 Are you really doing a relationship with me? 520 00:20:48,862 --> 00:20:51,448 I need you to stop blaming me for everything 521 00:20:51,448 --> 00:20:53,896 and start being culpable for what you have done. 522 00:20:53,896 --> 00:20:57,482 The boys lied and I couldn't get them to obey the rules. 523 00:20:57,482 --> 00:20:59,689 The boys didn't like the COVID protocols. 524 00:20:59,689 --> 00:21:02,000 They're young, they didn't think they were gonna be affected by it. 525 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,000 "Sure, Dad. Whatever." 526 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,758 And they continued to socialize, 527 00:21:04,758 --> 00:21:07,758 and continued to be around their friends, they continued to date. 528 00:21:07,758 --> 00:21:09,896 They brought COVID home from that. 529 00:21:09,896 --> 00:21:11,344 The whole time saying, 530 00:21:11,344 --> 00:21:13,758 "Dad, we're being careful. We're doing everything you're telling us to." 531 00:21:13,758 --> 00:21:15,000 But they weren't. 532 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,000 And they're blaming me for the choices that they had. 533 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:19,551 They were not culpable. 534 00:21:19,551 --> 00:21:22,275 That is not gaslighting. That is... 535 00:21:22,275 --> 00:21:24,482 - That is accountability. - You made this about 536 00:21:24,482 --> 00:21:27,655 all these other problems that we have that we can't sweep under... 537 00:21:27,655 --> 00:21:29,689 - I did not. I did not. - ...This became... Yes, you did. 538 00:21:29,689 --> 00:21:31,275 - You said we're an-- - I did not. I did not. 539 00:21:31,275 --> 00:21:34,448 - Wow. - Stop talking like I'm just an idiot here. 540 00:21:34,448 --> 00:21:36,379 - Well, then stop talking to me like I am. - Janelle, 541 00:21:36,379 --> 00:21:39,000 I've seen what you've done this entire time. 542 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,482 Number one, you undermined the basic rules I had. 543 00:21:42,482 --> 00:21:45,551 You made fun of me to the boys. 544 00:21:45,551 --> 00:21:48,172 See, if you ever had my back... 545 00:21:49,862 --> 00:21:52,068 Have you ever been a team with me? 546 00:21:52,068 --> 00:21:54,448 Have we ever co-parented? 547 00:21:54,448 --> 00:21:57,482 Your co-parent was Christine. Why? 548 00:21:57,482 --> 00:21:59,068 Because Kody, you were never available. 549 00:21:59,068 --> 00:22:01,068 - Never been available. - That is such a lie. 550 00:22:01,068 --> 00:22:02,655 - That is such an excuse. - [Janelle] Favoritism... Okay... 551 00:22:02,655 --> 00:22:05,275 That's every excuse every polygamous woman 552 00:22:05,275 --> 00:22:07,965 that finds a problem with it, makes. 553 00:22:07,965 --> 00:22:09,896 - And it's bull [bleep] - Wild to me, 554 00:22:09,896 --> 00:22:12,068 because Robyn's so perfect? 555 00:22:12,068 --> 00:22:14,103 When did I say that she was perfect? 556 00:22:14,103 --> 00:22:16,965 You're jealous. You're bringing her into something 557 00:22:16,965 --> 00:22:19,000 that isn't hers to be owned. 558 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,379 You made this about way bigger than COVID. 559 00:22:21,379 --> 00:22:23,896 - You made this about... No. - No, the boys made this about Robyn. 560 00:22:23,896 --> 00:22:26,068 That's the only reason she got brought in. 561 00:22:27,586 --> 00:22:30,172 I don't think you've ever admitted your culpability 562 00:22:30,172 --> 00:22:32,379 - in the problems in this family. - This is wild to me 563 00:22:32,379 --> 00:22:34,103 that you're blaming me for this. 564 00:22:34,103 --> 00:22:35,448 - You're the one-- - I'm not blaming you for everything... 565 00:22:35,448 --> 00:22:38,103 - You are the one-- - ...but all I needed was, uh, 566 00:22:38,103 --> 00:22:39,655 - your back. - You are the one... 567 00:22:39,655 --> 00:22:42,344 - [Kody] You backing me up. - ...who said the boys cannot come 568 00:22:42,344 --> 00:22:44,068 until they apologize. 569 00:22:44,068 --> 00:22:45,344 And I corrected that. 570 00:22:45,344 --> 00:22:47,379 - And you're not listening... Stop! - And you said to me-- 571 00:22:47,379 --> 00:22:49,275 - Stop that. I corrected that. - No, you listen to me. 572 00:22:49,275 --> 00:22:51,172 - You listen to me. - I even apologized 573 00:22:51,172 --> 00:22:52,758 - for that. - No, you did not. 574 00:22:52,758 --> 00:22:53,965 Yes, I did. 575 00:22:53,965 --> 00:22:55,344 - No, you did not. - Yes... 576 00:22:55,344 --> 00:22:57,758 Four weeks ago, I apologized for that... 577 00:22:57,758 --> 00:22:59,862 - No, you said-- - ...I said, we need to get together 578 00:22:59,862 --> 00:23:02,000 and all it is is about talking with them. 579 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,758 - No-- - It's not about them apologizing. 580 00:23:03,758 --> 00:23:07,413 No, you said, "Oh. Well, that's after I'd already made my plans." 581 00:23:08,586 --> 00:23:11,000 And you're like, "Oh, well, I guess that was a conversation 582 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,827 I had with you a couple times. 583 00:23:14,586 --> 00:23:16,862 So, I can see where you thought that." 584 00:23:16,862 --> 00:23:19,689 I feel like... I feel like I'm being gaslit. 585 00:23:19,689 --> 00:23:21,379 I mean, totally, you say something-- 586 00:23:21,379 --> 00:23:23,103 You're using that because I used the term. 587 00:23:23,103 --> 00:23:24,482 - Now you're just excusing yourself. - Oh, I came into this 588 00:23:24,482 --> 00:23:26,862 conversation expecting to use that term. 589 00:23:26,862 --> 00:23:29,931 'Cause I feel like you're constantly gaslighting me. 590 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,103 Janelle... 591 00:23:32,103 --> 00:23:33,586 [inhales deeply] Okay. 592 00:23:33,586 --> 00:23:35,551 There's a problem in the family. 593 00:23:35,551 --> 00:23:38,689 A problem that needs to be solved and everything's too hot now. 594 00:23:38,689 --> 00:23:41,344 And everybody thinks that I'm the bad guy. 595 00:23:41,793 --> 00:23:43,827 And so, um... 596 00:23:45,965 --> 00:23:47,793 I don't expect to see anybody at Christmas. 597 00:23:47,793 --> 00:23:49,655 I don't expect to see you. 598 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,551 Um... 599 00:23:52,344 --> 00:23:54,000 [sighs] 600 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:58,000 You have cheated me out of my contact with my family, 601 00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,482 - because-- - It is not my fault. 602 00:23:59,482 --> 00:24:01,068 You asked them. 603 00:24:01,068 --> 00:24:03,068 You asked them, Kody. 604 00:24:03,068 --> 00:24:05,379 I have not done anything. 605 00:24:05,379 --> 00:24:07,172 You ask them who they blame. 606 00:24:07,172 --> 00:24:09,000 Well, they blame me, because you do. 607 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:10,448 [Janelle] I do not. 608 00:24:10,448 --> 00:24:11,655 [scoffs] 609 00:24:11,655 --> 00:24:13,758 - I... - [Kody] Janelle, I saw you right there, 610 00:24:13,758 --> 00:24:15,000 mock my rules. 611 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:16,862 Well, and I've seen you tell me... 612 00:24:16,862 --> 00:24:18,482 call me all kinds of names. 613 00:24:18,482 --> 00:24:20,482 What? That you're lazy about the rules? 614 00:24:20,482 --> 00:24:22,758 That you won't accept accountability? 615 00:24:22,758 --> 00:24:24,275 Kody, in the very beginning 616 00:24:24,275 --> 00:24:26,586 - I kept-- Listen to me. - [Kody] No, no. No, you make the same excuse forever. 617 00:24:26,586 --> 00:24:28,379 - But I've-- - Shut your [bleep] mouth 618 00:24:28,379 --> 00:24:31,172 - and let me talk to you for a minute. - No, no, no, no, no, no. 619 00:24:31,172 --> 00:24:33,758 - No, no, no. No, no, no. - [Janelle] You won't... You keep cutting me off. 620 00:24:33,758 --> 00:24:35,655 You keep cutting me off. 621 00:24:35,655 --> 00:24:38,379 [Kody] There is no interest in understanding each other here. 622 00:24:38,379 --> 00:24:40,862 There is no interest in understanding. 623 00:24:40,862 --> 00:24:42,758 There is only a bitterness 624 00:24:42,758 --> 00:24:44,758 that has no place. 625 00:24:47,482 --> 00:24:50,344 I don't expect you to back me up anymore. 626 00:24:50,344 --> 00:24:53,379 I'm not gonna look for it. I'm not gonna ask for it. 627 00:24:53,379 --> 00:24:56,655 I don't expect you to try and help us 628 00:24:56,655 --> 00:24:58,655 co-parent the kids. 629 00:24:58,655 --> 00:25:00,758 - That's too late. We're never going to do that. - [Janelle] This is not-- 630 00:25:00,758 --> 00:25:03,482 - [Kody] So what partnership do we have? - This is not 631 00:25:03,482 --> 00:25:04,862 only me, Kody. 632 00:25:04,862 --> 00:25:06,724 Don't you dare point your finger at me. 633 00:25:07,379 --> 00:25:08,965 I've been here... 634 00:25:09,862 --> 00:25:11,965 daylong, in and out, 635 00:25:11,965 --> 00:25:14,172 for all these years without your support 636 00:25:14,172 --> 00:25:17,344 while you were deciding what you were doing without consulting me. 637 00:25:17,344 --> 00:25:18,758 You know what? Let me tell you what. 638 00:25:18,758 --> 00:25:21,448 - [Kody] No, I'm done listening to you. - No, you stay and talk. 639 00:25:21,448 --> 00:25:23,896 - You stay and talk. - Uh, no. 640 00:25:23,896 --> 00:25:25,172 I'm not going to, 641 00:25:25,172 --> 00:25:27,862 - because you're not listening. - You're not listening to me. 642 00:25:27,862 --> 00:25:29,103 And I'm not going to. 643 00:25:29,103 --> 00:25:30,448 - [Janelle] Okay, so we're done? - Goodbye. 644 00:25:30,448 --> 00:25:31,827 [bleep] you. 645 00:25:32,103 --> 00:25:33,551 [door slams] 646 00:25:34,862 --> 00:25:36,758 [sighs] Shut it off. 647 00:25:38,655 --> 00:25:40,172 [producer] I'm cutting cameras. 648 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,172 [horn honking] 649 00:25:51,655 --> 00:25:53,620 [Janelle] So, Kody just left. 650 00:25:57,896 --> 00:26:01,655 I got into this conversation wanting to keep it logical, 651 00:26:01,655 --> 00:26:04,172 and I figured we would take this step-by-step. 652 00:26:04,172 --> 00:26:07,551 But really, truly, I don't think he... 653 00:26:07,551 --> 00:26:09,551 He's looking for an excuse. 654 00:26:10,689 --> 00:26:12,655 We were throwing accusations at each other 655 00:26:12,655 --> 00:26:13,862 about what's going on, 656 00:26:13,862 --> 00:26:15,482 and it was shocking. 657 00:26:15,482 --> 00:26:17,655 Like, it was shocking. I was... 658 00:26:17,655 --> 00:26:19,482 I was really upset when he left 659 00:26:19,482 --> 00:26:22,000 'cause it feels like there is a finality to it, 660 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,517 and now I'm worried about what happens to me. 661 00:26:26,448 --> 00:26:29,655 Moving forward, do I live here? Do I build? 662 00:26:30,689 --> 00:26:34,172 It feels like Kody and I are no longer gonna be a couple. 663 00:26:34,172 --> 00:26:36,379 It really does. It was that dramatic. 664 00:26:36,379 --> 00:26:39,000 There had been so much build up and then, 665 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:40,379 not so much the words, 666 00:26:40,379 --> 00:26:41,896 yes, the words were very harsh, 667 00:26:41,896 --> 00:26:44,482 but just the feeling was like, "We're done." 668 00:26:44,482 --> 00:26:46,068 You keep cutting me off. 669 00:26:46,068 --> 00:26:49,068 There is no interest in understanding each other here. 670 00:26:49,068 --> 00:26:50,896 There is only a bitterness 671 00:26:50,896 --> 00:26:52,862 that has no place. 672 00:26:52,862 --> 00:26:56,448 It took me about a half hour to kinda overcome the shock of the conversation. 673 00:26:56,448 --> 00:26:59,172 And I called him and I said, "Come get your stuff." 674 00:26:59,172 --> 00:27:01,965 So in my mind he is out-of-bounds. 675 00:27:04,758 --> 00:27:07,862 My faith, my religious beliefs, my spiritual beliefs 676 00:27:07,862 --> 00:27:12,827 don't really allow for you to just walk away 'cause things are hard. 677 00:27:14,241 --> 00:27:16,724 I don't really wanna see him. 678 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,551 I know that he does feel the responsibility. 679 00:27:21,551 --> 00:27:24,241 He feels like he can't leave a wife 680 00:27:24,241 --> 00:27:27,103 'cause it's bad on his... him, 681 00:27:27,103 --> 00:27:29,103 if he leaves a wife high and dry. 682 00:27:29,103 --> 00:27:31,551 Like, says, I'm no longer married to you. 683 00:27:32,172 --> 00:27:34,482 And so, his pattern seems to be 684 00:27:34,482 --> 00:27:38,103 that he just sort of ignores that person, ignores that person. 685 00:27:38,103 --> 00:27:40,793 It feels like he wants you to say it's over 686 00:27:40,793 --> 00:27:42,482 'cause he doesn't want the responsibility 687 00:27:42,482 --> 00:27:47,000 of being the husband who says I don't want to married to you anymore. 688 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,655 - [Kody] No, I'm done listening to you. - No, you stay and talk. 689 00:27:49,655 --> 00:27:52,275 - You stay and talk. - Uh, no. 690 00:27:52,275 --> 00:27:53,655 I'm not going to, 691 00:27:53,655 --> 00:27:56,241 - because you're not listening. - You're not listening to me. 692 00:27:56,241 --> 00:27:57,551 And I'm not going to. 693 00:27:57,551 --> 00:27:58,793 - [Janelle] Okay, so we're done? - Goodbye. 694 00:27:58,793 --> 00:28:01,000 - [Janelle] [bleep] you. - [door slams] 695 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,000 So, after I kinda got over the shock after Kody left, 696 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,448 I thought, 697 00:28:05,448 --> 00:28:06,862 Oh, my heck. 698 00:28:06,862 --> 00:28:09,862 Like, I have nothing, financially. 699 00:28:09,862 --> 00:28:12,172 I am tied up in this property. 700 00:28:12,172 --> 00:28:15,068 Everything, as far as my estate goes... 701 00:28:16,758 --> 00:28:19,275 Any kind of savings, money, anything, 702 00:28:19,275 --> 00:28:20,896 is tied up in this property. 703 00:28:20,896 --> 00:28:22,275 I am a smart woman 704 00:28:22,275 --> 00:28:24,103 and I have done this very dumb thing. 705 00:28:24,103 --> 00:28:26,344 I trusted in this family structure 706 00:28:26,344 --> 00:28:28,482 but now I'm really stuck. 707 00:28:28,482 --> 00:28:31,275 And I feel like, oh, my hell, I'm 50, 708 00:28:31,275 --> 00:28:33,862 and I have nothing. 709 00:28:33,862 --> 00:28:36,241 We moved to Flagstaff and we bought this property. 710 00:28:36,241 --> 00:28:38,103 We had a vision we would all build on it. 711 00:28:38,103 --> 00:28:40,689 And the way we were able to buy it 712 00:28:40,689 --> 00:28:42,896 is we paid a... mostly cash for it. 713 00:28:42,896 --> 00:28:45,068 But then, we had to take a private mortgage 714 00:28:45,068 --> 00:28:47,862 on a portion of it that we just didn't have the cash for. 715 00:28:47,862 --> 00:28:50,896 If we do not pay it off we're in jeopardy of losing the land 716 00:28:50,896 --> 00:28:52,551 just like any other mortgage. 717 00:28:52,551 --> 00:28:55,103 And Kody just sticks his head in the sand. 718 00:28:55,103 --> 00:28:57,172 Well, look, he's sitting on property with Robyn. 719 00:28:57,172 --> 00:28:58,758 It's four acres and a house. 720 00:28:58,758 --> 00:29:00,172 Like, no, he doesn't care. 721 00:29:00,172 --> 00:29:01,862 So, sure, Robyn and I have a home. 722 00:29:01,862 --> 00:29:03,172 We have to house our children. 723 00:29:03,172 --> 00:29:04,862 I tried to help Janelle buy a house. 724 00:29:04,862 --> 00:29:06,379 I tried to talk her into buying a house. 725 00:29:06,379 --> 00:29:07,586 We had the means to do that. 726 00:29:07,586 --> 00:29:09,379 She has ownership in Coyote Pass, 727 00:29:09,379 --> 00:29:10,655 and she had the same opportunities 728 00:29:10,655 --> 00:29:11,793 everybody else did. 729 00:29:11,793 --> 00:29:13,896 But she's got just as many assets as the rest of us. 730 00:29:13,896 --> 00:29:15,655 [Janelle] I don't know what's next. 731 00:29:15,655 --> 00:29:19,172 And now, I'm sort of in shock and I'm trying to figure out what the heck I'm gonna do. 732 00:29:19,172 --> 00:29:22,172 I mean, there's a few people I could talk to about this, 733 00:29:22,172 --> 00:29:24,000 like Madi and Christine. 734 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,965 I don't even know what I think yet. 735 00:29:30,379 --> 00:29:32,068 [Christine] This Christmas is just a 736 00:29:32,068 --> 00:29:35,344 big indication of how split-up our family really, really is. 737 00:29:35,344 --> 00:29:37,068 This is the first Christmas 738 00:29:37,551 --> 00:29:40,000 in, gosh, 27 years, 739 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:41,862 that we're going to be separated. 740 00:29:41,862 --> 00:29:44,000 Janelle is not doing Christmas with everybody. 741 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,000 She's gonna be doing Christmas with her kids. 742 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,482 In Flagstaff, still. But in a rental house. 743 00:29:48,482 --> 00:29:51,655 I'm super grateful couple days after Christmas we're gonna go to Flagstaff. 744 00:29:51,655 --> 00:29:55,758 I need to be around them so badly. I miss them like crazy. 745 00:29:55,758 --> 00:29:57,379 - Yeah. - How's it going? 746 00:29:57,379 --> 00:29:59,068 Garrison, hi, love. 747 00:29:59,068 --> 00:30:00,862 How do I turn this? 748 00:30:00,862 --> 00:30:02,655 Garrison, Janelle's biological son, 749 00:30:02,655 --> 00:30:04,000 but really my son, you know. 750 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,586 He told me that he's gonna have dinner 751 00:30:06,586 --> 00:30:07,758 at his girlfriend's house. 752 00:30:07,758 --> 00:30:10,551 So, he's like, "Can you please help me make rolls?" 753 00:30:10,551 --> 00:30:12,551 Do you want to follow the instructions 754 00:30:12,551 --> 00:30:14,241 and then just ask me questions 755 00:30:14,241 --> 00:30:16,758 or do you want to have me tell you what to do? 756 00:30:16,758 --> 00:30:18,689 It's better if you tell me what to do. 757 00:30:18,689 --> 00:30:20,689 I have been making these rolls forever. 758 00:30:20,689 --> 00:30:22,482 It's a crazy honor. I'm so excited. 759 00:30:22,482 --> 00:30:25,862 Well, I used to do 'em by hand and grandma Janelle still does them by hand. 760 00:30:25,862 --> 00:30:29,000 This is grandma Janelle's recipe so you're just gonna do like grandma Janelle. 761 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,689 My mom's and, uh, Christine's kids have always been very, very close. 762 00:30:32,689 --> 00:30:35,655 Christine would stay at home and kinda do all the cooking and stuff 763 00:30:35,655 --> 00:30:37,000 and then, uh, my mom would al... 764 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,172 was always, almost always working. 765 00:30:39,172 --> 00:30:42,379 Christine and my mom's kids have all kinda had... still had a bond. 766 00:30:42,379 --> 00:30:44,172 And despite everything that's going on, 767 00:30:44,172 --> 00:30:48,000 we all still, you know, cherish that relationship that we have, so... 768 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,103 Okay. So put one cup of butter and then two cups of milk. 769 00:30:51,103 --> 00:30:53,103 So, one cup of butter into that pot 770 00:30:53,103 --> 00:30:55,448 - and start melting the butter. - [Garrison] Okay. 771 00:30:55,448 --> 00:30:58,379 Janelle has always been super, super generous with her kids. 772 00:30:58,379 --> 00:31:02,000 I have been involved in all of the big things 773 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,551 in Janelle's kids' life. 774 00:31:03,551 --> 00:31:06,448 And, so, when I left, and I left Flagstaff 775 00:31:06,448 --> 00:31:08,275 I was leaving them all behind. 776 00:31:08,275 --> 00:31:10,068 Okay, Garrison, that's plenty. Stop. 777 00:31:10,068 --> 00:31:11,793 - It's not a circle, yet, so... - [Christine] Huh? 778 00:31:11,793 --> 00:31:14,275 - It's not a circle. - No, you don't need anymore. Stop. 779 00:31:14,275 --> 00:31:16,344 - [Garrison] Okay. - You'll overwork the dough. 780 00:31:16,344 --> 00:31:18,896 Yeah, I mean, Garrison calling, needing my help 781 00:31:18,896 --> 00:31:20,068 was just confirmation, 782 00:31:20,068 --> 00:31:22,482 even though I've left their dad, 783 00:31:22,482 --> 00:31:25,172 um, I'm still gonna be in their lives. 784 00:31:25,172 --> 00:31:27,551 And that's what I was hoping for. 785 00:31:27,551 --> 00:31:29,482 - How's that? - There you go, Garrison. You're set. 786 00:31:29,482 --> 00:31:31,551 It does not look as good as yours, but... 787 00:31:31,551 --> 00:31:33,275 They look wonderful. 788 00:31:33,275 --> 00:31:34,758 Janelle and I are getting together 789 00:31:34,758 --> 00:31:36,482 for a couple of days after Christmas. 790 00:31:36,482 --> 00:31:38,758 So, all of the traditions that we would... 791 00:31:38,758 --> 00:31:41,655 we would usually do for those couple of days around Christmas, 792 00:31:41,655 --> 00:31:42,793 we're gonna do them. 793 00:31:42,793 --> 00:31:44,862 We're gonna do them all in those couple of days. 794 00:31:44,862 --> 00:31:47,793 So excited. We're gonna hang on to that tradition. 795 00:31:47,793 --> 00:31:50,448 It's super important to have those couple of days together. 796 00:31:53,172 --> 00:31:55,241 We yelled at each other. 797 00:31:55,241 --> 00:31:56,758 - You guys yelled at each other? - Yeah, we... 798 00:31:56,758 --> 00:31:59,068 We threw rocks at glasshouses. 799 00:32:00,068 --> 00:32:02,758 It's tense and awkward and weird. 800 00:32:13,275 --> 00:32:14,793 So, I just left Janelle's house 801 00:32:14,793 --> 00:32:16,551 and we just had a big blow up. 802 00:32:21,793 --> 00:32:23,793 - How's it going, Meri? - Good. How are you? 803 00:32:23,793 --> 00:32:25,655 Mmm. All right. 804 00:32:25,655 --> 00:32:27,379 I think we've only had a fight like this, maybe, 805 00:32:27,379 --> 00:32:28,793 five times in our lives. 806 00:32:28,793 --> 00:32:30,586 Pretty intense. 807 00:32:30,586 --> 00:32:31,793 But I'm headed over to Meri's 808 00:32:31,793 --> 00:32:34,965 'cause I already had plans to go to talk to her. 809 00:32:36,551 --> 00:32:38,724 [Meri] Wow, you guys seem like... 810 00:32:39,241 --> 00:32:42,275 [mimics sad trombone sounds] 811 00:32:42,275 --> 00:32:44,275 - [Meri chuckles] - I'm okay. 812 00:32:44,275 --> 00:32:47,827 It's a weird place to be coming to that meeting from this. 813 00:32:48,689 --> 00:32:51,172 - You better talk about-- - Holiday seasons. 814 00:32:51,172 --> 00:32:53,551 Christmas, I guess. 815 00:32:53,551 --> 00:32:55,620 [Kody] I don't know what there is to talk about. 816 00:32:56,448 --> 00:32:57,793 What's Janelle doing? 817 00:32:57,793 --> 00:33:01,482 [Kody] Janelle and Christine have rented a short-term rental. 818 00:33:01,482 --> 00:33:04,379 I thought Christine wasn't coming until after Christmas. 819 00:33:04,379 --> 00:33:06,068 - [Kody] She's not. - [Robyn] Yeah, she's not until after Christmas. 820 00:33:06,068 --> 00:33:10,172 I think they're trying to shut me out because they're mad at me. 821 00:33:10,172 --> 00:33:12,793 [Meri] It's... it's weird. They're being weird right now. 822 00:33:12,793 --> 00:33:14,379 What is going on? It's like, 823 00:33:14,379 --> 00:33:15,551 "All right, guys. It's Christmas. 824 00:33:15,551 --> 00:33:18,448 It's supposed to be fun and happy and joyful." 825 00:33:18,448 --> 00:33:20,172 Is Janelle not coming over 826 00:33:20,172 --> 00:33:22,448 with the kids on Christmas? 827 00:33:22,448 --> 00:33:23,655 No. 828 00:33:23,655 --> 00:33:25,655 - [Robyn] She said she's not? - [Meri] Really? 829 00:33:25,655 --> 00:33:28,448 [Kody] Well, no, we're not getting together. 830 00:33:28,448 --> 00:33:30,551 [Robyn] I thought you were talking to her about this and stuff. 831 00:33:30,551 --> 00:33:32,448 [Kody] Oh, no, we didn't talk. 832 00:33:32,448 --> 00:33:35,000 - Oh, I thought-- - We yelled at each other. 833 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,448 - You guys yelled at each other? - Yeah, we... 834 00:33:36,448 --> 00:33:39,241 we threw rocks at glasshouses. 835 00:33:39,241 --> 00:33:41,655 It's scary 'cause like, what does this mean? 836 00:33:41,655 --> 00:33:44,103 And it sounds like the issues that we're having 837 00:33:44,103 --> 00:33:46,344 about Christmas are just getting worse. 838 00:33:47,551 --> 00:33:49,689 You guys were just yelling at each other? 839 00:33:49,689 --> 00:33:52,172 - Pretty much. I don't even know... - About what? 840 00:33:52,172 --> 00:33:54,344 - What I was yelling. - [Robyn] What were you yelling about? 841 00:33:54,344 --> 00:33:55,862 [Meri] That's always dangerous 842 00:33:55,862 --> 00:33:57,448 - when you have no idea what you're yelling. - [Kody] Well, everybody's... 843 00:33:57,448 --> 00:33:59,137 It's about the... it's the blame game. 844 00:33:59,137 --> 00:34:01,137 It's the big blame game about 845 00:34:01,137 --> 00:34:05,172 who's responsible for our family splitting up over COVID. 846 00:34:05,172 --> 00:34:07,655 I... Listen, I don't know... 847 00:34:08,551 --> 00:34:11,413 Like... the boys aren't talking to me. 848 00:34:12,103 --> 00:34:13,655 Have you tried? 849 00:34:13,655 --> 00:34:17,896 Um, yeah, I've reached out to, basically, everybody. 850 00:34:17,896 --> 00:34:21,000 They're making up stories in their mind 'cause they're not talking to me. 851 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,551 So, everybody's got a story about how Dad's a bad guy. 852 00:34:24,551 --> 00:34:27,793 But, just, we're just having two groups of Christmas. 853 00:34:27,793 --> 00:34:30,172 And, listen, I was threatening to do this last Christmas. 854 00:34:30,172 --> 00:34:33,068 Well, no. Christine's not gonna be here for Christmas. 855 00:34:33,793 --> 00:34:35,758 So, that's not two groups. 856 00:34:35,758 --> 00:34:37,482 [Kody] She's getting together with Janelle. 857 00:34:37,482 --> 00:34:38,896 - After Christmas. - Well, after, you said. 858 00:34:38,896 --> 00:34:40,344 - Yeah, well. - After Christmas. 859 00:34:41,275 --> 00:34:44,793 [Meri] The fact that our family is not all together 860 00:34:44,793 --> 00:34:47,448 and all getting along and doing Christmas together 861 00:34:47,448 --> 00:34:50,137 this year, is really weird. 862 00:34:50,137 --> 00:34:54,551 Maybe it'd just be easier for me to hole up in my house 863 00:34:54,551 --> 00:34:57,655 and not be around. I don't know. It's just... 864 00:34:57,655 --> 00:35:00,551 It's tense and awkward and weird. 865 00:35:00,551 --> 00:35:03,793 [Kody] What I gathered from the things Janelle was throwing at me, 866 00:35:03,793 --> 00:35:06,724 is that everybody's sort of making up a story... 867 00:35:07,172 --> 00:35:08,379 about me, 868 00:35:08,379 --> 00:35:10,793 and they're talking to each other about it 869 00:35:10,793 --> 00:35:13,103 but they're not talking to me about it. 870 00:35:13,103 --> 00:35:15,275 And now, they're all mad at me. 871 00:35:15,275 --> 00:35:18,551 She was saying that she wasn't gonna be the in-between. 872 00:35:18,551 --> 00:35:21,689 Well, I wish she wouldn't be, but she's... 873 00:35:21,689 --> 00:35:23,793 she's colluding with them. 874 00:35:23,793 --> 00:35:25,344 Do you think she's colluding with them? 875 00:35:25,344 --> 00:35:27,344 Absolutely. 876 00:35:27,344 --> 00:35:29,000 [Meri] Kody feels pretty angry. 877 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,965 And whenever you're angry, you're not gonna see 878 00:35:32,379 --> 00:35:34,275 any other perspective. 879 00:35:34,275 --> 00:35:35,586 You've got blinders on. 880 00:35:35,586 --> 00:35:38,551 But, playing devil's advocate, maybe Janelle's not colluding. 881 00:35:38,551 --> 00:35:40,896 I mean, when you use the word collude, 882 00:35:40,896 --> 00:35:45,896 and when Kody uses it, like, it means everybody is banding up against him. 883 00:35:45,896 --> 00:35:49,448 And, maybe she's not doing that. 884 00:35:49,448 --> 00:35:52,000 Christine and Janelle are doing everything they can 885 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,482 to make it so I'm not the head of the family, which is fine. 886 00:35:54,482 --> 00:35:59,275 Basically, I became the head of mine and my kids' family out of necessity. 887 00:35:59,275 --> 00:36:01,655 I was the one that my kids would listen to 888 00:36:01,655 --> 00:36:03,655 and I was the one my kids talked to. 889 00:36:03,655 --> 00:36:08,482 And if they needed to feel love or security or... 890 00:36:08,482 --> 00:36:11,068 acceptance, they got that from me. 891 00:36:11,068 --> 00:36:14,448 So, it's more like, well, what are we gonna do for Christmas? 892 00:36:16,793 --> 00:36:18,655 So, you know, 893 00:36:18,655 --> 00:36:20,103 I guess we do Christmas Eve here 894 00:36:20,103 --> 00:36:22,172 and then Christmas morning at Robyn's house? 895 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,448 As long as you guys are cool with it. 896 00:36:25,448 --> 00:36:30,137 So, Christmas Eve has always just been kind of a fun tradition for me. 897 00:36:30,137 --> 00:36:32,275 - [kids clamoring] - [Meri] Hold up your present. 898 00:36:32,275 --> 00:36:33,758 Are you excited? 899 00:36:33,758 --> 00:36:35,379 [all] Yeah! 900 00:36:35,379 --> 00:36:38,551 [Meri] One, two, three, go. 901 00:36:39,137 --> 00:36:42,206 [all cheering] 902 00:36:43,068 --> 00:36:45,000 I always hosted but 903 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,379 I also give all the kids Christmas jammies. 904 00:36:48,379 --> 00:36:50,482 I used to make them when they were younger 905 00:36:50,482 --> 00:36:52,620 and there weren't quite so many children. 906 00:36:55,137 --> 00:36:57,758 [indistinct chatter] 907 00:36:57,758 --> 00:37:01,448 You know, for me, Christmas over the last few years has changed a lot. 908 00:37:01,448 --> 00:37:05,172 There's less magic. 909 00:37:05,172 --> 00:37:08,000 And I don't know if it's the state of the family, 910 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,379 the state of the relationships... 911 00:37:10,379 --> 00:37:12,655 and that makes me sad, you know. 912 00:37:12,655 --> 00:37:16,413 I need to make my own magic for Christmas, I think. 913 00:37:17,068 --> 00:37:19,241 And then, do I, like, invite... 914 00:37:20,137 --> 00:37:22,689 Janelle and the kids that are around, 915 00:37:22,689 --> 00:37:24,655 or do I not? 916 00:37:24,655 --> 00:37:27,379 How do you wanna do it, Meri? How do you wanna do Christmas Eve? 917 00:37:27,379 --> 00:37:30,172 I don't know, Kody. I have no idea. 918 00:37:31,551 --> 00:37:34,448 Like, I feel like I'm completely stuck in the middle. 919 00:37:34,448 --> 00:37:35,551 Let's be real. 920 00:37:35,551 --> 00:37:39,379 I am in this place where... 921 00:37:39,379 --> 00:37:41,379 not saying this to be a jerk, 922 00:37:41,379 --> 00:37:44,724 I'm not saying anything, I'm just saying how I... 923 00:37:45,758 --> 00:37:48,068 - This is just what it is. - [Kody] Yeah. 924 00:37:48,068 --> 00:37:50,551 Like, you've got Christine, who left. 925 00:37:50,551 --> 00:37:53,172 You've got Janelle that you're at odds with. 926 00:37:53,172 --> 00:37:56,344 I'm like the third wheel 'cause I'm... 927 00:37:56,655 --> 00:37:58,551 just here. 928 00:37:58,551 --> 00:38:00,896 I don't know what to do. 929 00:38:00,896 --> 00:38:03,896 Like, I don't know. Do I call them and have them come over 930 00:38:03,896 --> 00:38:06,241 when you guys are all at odds? 931 00:38:06,241 --> 00:38:08,448 - That sounds scary. - [Meri] Is that... 932 00:38:08,448 --> 00:38:09,758 If I could have my Christmas wish, 933 00:38:09,758 --> 00:38:11,482 Kody and the boys would get this figured out 934 00:38:11,482 --> 00:38:12,896 and we could have Christmas together. 935 00:38:12,896 --> 00:38:14,655 Do I think it's gonna work 936 00:38:14,655 --> 00:38:17,896 for them to get together on Christmas Eve without talking? 937 00:38:17,896 --> 00:38:19,551 No, I think there's gonna be a fight 938 00:38:19,551 --> 00:38:20,896 and that's what I think is scary. 939 00:38:20,896 --> 00:38:24,896 I feel like I'm sitting here doing the very best that I can 940 00:38:24,896 --> 00:38:26,448 - to... - [Kody] I get it. 941 00:38:26,448 --> 00:38:27,896 ...you know, like, 942 00:38:27,896 --> 00:38:29,896 be the family, be in the family, 943 00:38:29,896 --> 00:38:32,344 be part of the family, do what the family's, 944 00:38:32,689 --> 00:38:34,655 you know, doing. 945 00:38:34,655 --> 00:38:38,551 Honestly, I feel like I've been put in a really awkward position. 946 00:38:38,551 --> 00:38:42,379 I'm not in the Kody and Robyn married club. 947 00:38:42,379 --> 00:38:45,586 I'm not in the Janelle and Christine friend club. 948 00:38:45,586 --> 00:38:47,793 If I had my way, 949 00:38:47,793 --> 00:38:50,724 the family would all get together and be together. 950 00:38:52,137 --> 00:38:55,172 I don't... I don't know what to do. 951 00:38:55,172 --> 00:38:58,137 If I go over to Robyn and Kody's for Christmas, 952 00:38:58,137 --> 00:39:01,103 it's, I am going over to Robyn and Kody's for Christmas. 953 00:39:01,103 --> 00:39:02,793 If they were to come over to my house 954 00:39:02,793 --> 00:39:05,000 they'd be coming to Meri's house. 955 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:06,827 Not Meri and Kody's house... 956 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:09,448 They'd be coming to Meri's house. 957 00:39:09,448 --> 00:39:11,172 You see the difference? 958 00:39:11,172 --> 00:39:12,896 I'm trying to figure out, like, 959 00:39:12,896 --> 00:39:15,965 could you be around everybody and... 960 00:39:16,379 --> 00:39:18,482 Like, 'cause... 961 00:39:18,482 --> 00:39:23,068 'Cause last year you were struggling with that. 962 00:39:23,068 --> 00:39:25,551 Like, you were struggling because of what had just happened with the boys. 963 00:39:25,551 --> 00:39:29,172 No, I would rather just be around people who really wanna be around me. 964 00:39:29,172 --> 00:39:31,448 - It could get ugly if everybody came. - [Robyn] It could get ugly. 965 00:39:31,448 --> 00:39:33,793 [Kody] I don't know. I can't speak to Janelle now. 966 00:39:33,793 --> 00:39:36,655 I mean, it's just, we've crossed the line. 967 00:39:36,655 --> 00:39:39,896 - I have no idea when we're-- - You just call her up or you go over 968 00:39:39,896 --> 00:39:42,103 - and you say let's talk. - No, I'm not interested in that. 969 00:39:42,103 --> 00:39:43,793 It's just like... 970 00:39:43,793 --> 00:39:45,758 - I'm just... I'm just-- - ...there has to be a time 971 00:39:45,758 --> 00:39:48,551 when we go long enough to where we can look at each other 972 00:39:48,551 --> 00:39:50,551 and actually have a conversation. 973 00:39:50,551 --> 00:39:53,793 Janelle and I need to sit down in a space 974 00:39:53,793 --> 00:39:56,517 and talk about what we want in our lives. 975 00:39:58,896 --> 00:40:01,413 'Cause I'm not sure she wants me in hers. 976 00:40:02,172 --> 00:40:04,241 So, are you 977 00:40:04,241 --> 00:40:06,827 going to invite everybody? 978 00:40:11,379 --> 00:40:12,827 Probably not. 979 00:40:13,689 --> 00:40:15,793 You know, I'm in this situation, 980 00:40:15,793 --> 00:40:18,241 I feel like, in the family where... 981 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,344 Not even in the family, like, just... 982 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,137 people, in general, I think, 983 00:40:25,137 --> 00:40:29,172 feel like... that I am here picking sides. 984 00:40:29,172 --> 00:40:33,482 If it happens to be that I do Christmas with Kody and Robyn 985 00:40:33,482 --> 00:40:36,896 that means that Kody and Robyn are interested in having me around. 986 00:40:36,896 --> 00:40:38,448 That's what that means. 987 00:40:38,448 --> 00:40:41,827 That doesn't mean that there's any sides being chosen. 988 00:40:44,344 --> 00:40:46,448 [indistinctly mumbling] 989 00:40:48,758 --> 00:40:51,862 I just wanna run away from everybody who's 990 00:40:52,758 --> 00:40:54,862 been so uncool about... 991 00:40:55,896 --> 00:40:59,896 um, what I tried to do to protect the family. 992 00:40:59,896 --> 00:41:04,172 And they're all like, "No, you weren't trying to protect us." 993 00:41:04,172 --> 00:41:07,137 I'm like, well, I tried to protect everybody 994 00:41:07,137 --> 00:41:09,517 but some people don't want to do that. 995 00:41:10,896 --> 00:41:12,862 Nobody feels safe. 996 00:41:13,758 --> 00:41:16,172 Nobody feels like the can be 997 00:41:16,172 --> 00:41:18,896 with another person without being, 998 00:41:18,896 --> 00:41:21,172 uh, just triggered, constantly. 999 00:41:21,172 --> 00:41:24,896 And that's a weird thing to be because with normal people, they can [bleep] talk me. 1000 00:41:24,896 --> 00:41:28,000 And I'm gonna be like, "Well, screw you. I'm getting away from you." 1001 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,379 But with your family, it triggers you. There's like... 1002 00:41:31,379 --> 00:41:35,482 There's this feeling that we've all been done wrong. 1003 00:41:35,482 --> 00:41:38,034 The flames are on the bridge. 1004 00:41:38,241 --> 00:41:40,172 And, uh... 1005 00:41:40,172 --> 00:41:43,344 I think most of us are just kinda walking away from the bridge 1006 00:41:44,172 --> 00:41:46,758 wondering if the bridge is strong enough to... 1007 00:41:46,758 --> 00:41:50,344 to hold up or if the... or if it's gonna burn down. 1008 00:41:52,896 --> 00:41:56,448 [narrator] Next time on Sister Wives... 1009 00:41:56,448 --> 00:41:59,793 This is the first year that I'll be doing Christmas separate. 1010 00:41:59,793 --> 00:42:02,068 Janelle's doing Christmas separate, too. 1011 00:42:02,068 --> 00:42:03,413 Merry Christmas. 1012 00:42:03,758 --> 00:42:06,482 [all clamoring] 1013 00:42:06,482 --> 00:42:09,172 [Janelle] I really don't expect that we'll see Kody. 1014 00:42:09,172 --> 00:42:11,896 It's been a week and a half and he hasn't said a thing 1015 00:42:11,896 --> 00:42:14,000 or called or texted Savanah. 1016 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:18,137 We were one big family and now we're kind of separate. 1017 00:42:18,137 --> 00:42:20,000 - Come in. How's it going? - [man] Hey, man. 1018 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:21,344 - [man groans] - [Kody chuckles] 1019 00:42:21,344 --> 00:42:23,551 You get in this place where it's like, "Well, 1020 00:42:23,551 --> 00:42:26,448 I should just be the devil I think I am now." 1021 00:42:29,137 --> 00:42:31,655 We can deny it to ourselves, but, uh, 1022 00:42:31,655 --> 00:42:33,551 Robyn's in for a ride 1023 00:42:33,551 --> 00:42:36,551 and any of the other wives that stay with him.