1 00:00:03,275 --> 00:00:05,620 [Sukanya] Previously on "Sister Wives, One on One." 2 00:00:06,827 --> 00:00:10,103 When we were all first married, personality conflicts 3 00:00:10,275 --> 00:00:12,413 between Meri and I, what they were, 4 00:00:12,586 --> 00:00:13,517 it was... 5 00:00:15,896 --> 00:00:17,275 pretty volatile. It could have been. 6 00:00:17,448 --> 00:00:18,586 It was pretty volatile. 7 00:00:18,586 --> 00:00:20,827 How did Meri fight that was different than Janelle? 8 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,586 She's just willing to scrap. 9 00:00:23,586 --> 00:00:24,689 Willing to scrap. 10 00:00:25,793 --> 00:00:28,103 Just like -- and in front of anybody. 11 00:00:28,275 --> 00:00:33,275 Kody and Janelle failed to recognize that possibly, 12 00:00:33,275 --> 00:00:37,620 some of the issues that I had in polygamy could have stemmed 13 00:00:37,793 --> 00:00:39,413 from the fact that, 14 00:00:39,586 --> 00:00:43,275 oh, they wanted to get married on my birthday. 15 00:00:43,448 --> 00:00:45,793 They had planned to get married on my birthday. 16 00:00:45,965 --> 00:00:49,103 When you ask me to go back in the past and think about it, 17 00:00:49,103 --> 00:00:50,793 my head starts to spin. 18 00:00:52,206 --> 00:00:54,206 Like there was nothing I could do. 19 00:00:54,379 --> 00:00:57,000 I apologize that at your dark time, I wasn't there. 20 00:00:59,275 --> 00:01:01,517 The dark time was because you weren't there. 21 00:01:02,931 --> 00:01:05,516 You don't need this from me, but I tell you, 22 00:01:05,689 --> 00:01:06,724 I forgive you for that. 23 00:01:08,068 --> 00:01:09,896 How was this experience for you? 24 00:01:10,034 --> 00:01:13,379 This apology may not be easy in any way. 25 00:01:13,551 --> 00:01:15,689 But the last time we were sitting here, 26 00:01:15,862 --> 00:01:17,896 you called her your favorite ex-wife. 27 00:01:17,896 --> 00:01:20,724 -What happened? -We were under the illusion 28 00:01:21,689 --> 00:01:24,000 of betrayal. 29 00:01:24,137 --> 00:01:25,689 What I should have been in the place, 30 00:01:25,862 --> 00:01:28,206 when I felt like she had done something that offended me, 31 00:01:28,379 --> 00:01:30,379 I should have just let it go. 32 00:01:30,379 --> 00:01:32,517 -And I needed to apologize -- -What did she do to offend you? 33 00:01:32,689 --> 00:01:35,000 [suspenseful music builds] 34 00:01:36,482 --> 00:01:39,586 This is "Sister Wives, One on One." 35 00:01:46,413 --> 00:01:48,103 I'm asking you a simple question. 36 00:01:48,103 --> 00:01:49,827 -What was that? -I don't know. 37 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:51,103 -We still can't -- -What was the phone call? 38 00:01:51,103 --> 00:01:52,827 It's just we, like, Meri and I, 39 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:54,172 when this unraveled -- -You keep going like this. 40 00:01:54,172 --> 00:01:56,206 -Was it a phone call? -Like, oh, any phone call. 41 00:01:56,378 --> 00:01:59,689 Every phone call, you know, it just it doesn't go well. 42 00:01:59,862 --> 00:02:03,068 OK, was there a particular phone call... 43 00:02:03,241 --> 00:02:05,068 -Oh, yeah. -...that you're talking about? 44 00:02:05,241 --> 00:02:07,413 There's one I was like, I -- I -- I like... 45 00:02:08,827 --> 00:02:11,000 Yeah, I got [laughs] -- 46 00:02:11,172 --> 00:02:13,896 I get really tired of Jenn trash-talking me because 47 00:02:13,896 --> 00:02:15,724 I don't, Jenn doesn't know me. -OK. 48 00:02:15,896 --> 00:02:19,172 This is what Jenn knows, is whatever Meri's told her. 49 00:02:19,172 --> 00:02:22,827 So Jenn's just trash-talking, trash-talking, trash-talking. 50 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:24,275 I'm on the phone with Meri once, and I said, 51 00:02:24,275 --> 00:02:26,000 "I don't think Jenn's safe." 52 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:30,275 She's -- I think she's culpable for part -- 53 00:02:30,448 --> 00:02:33,896 partially culpable for our breakup, things like this. 54 00:02:34,034 --> 00:02:36,379 And she gets mad, hangs up on me, doesn't talk to me again. 55 00:02:36,551 --> 00:02:40,000 So we're going through lawyers because every time 56 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:44,930 we talk, it's an escalation to some kind of problem. 57 00:02:45,067 --> 00:02:49,172 Do you think he was surprised to hear that he was the reason 58 00:02:49,172 --> 00:02:50,379 for your dark time? 59 00:02:52,067 --> 00:02:54,103 I don't know if he really 60 00:02:55,827 --> 00:02:57,586 grasped that. 61 00:02:57,758 --> 00:03:01,103 I'm not sure if he...I mean, I feel like I was pretty direct, 62 00:03:01,103 --> 00:03:05,172 but I don't know if he really accepted it. 63 00:03:05,172 --> 00:03:07,206 Maybe he did. I don't know. 64 00:03:07,379 --> 00:03:08,689 Yeah, but what was the dark time? 65 00:03:08,862 --> 00:03:10,103 Oh, we all know the dark time. 66 00:03:10,103 --> 00:03:13,379 That was, like, the -- the legal divorce, and that was 67 00:03:13,379 --> 00:03:16,275 the fact that our -- our, you know, relationship, 68 00:03:16,275 --> 00:03:18,310 we didn't have much of a relationship. 69 00:03:18,482 --> 00:03:21,689 That was, you know, the spiral into the, you know, 70 00:03:21,862 --> 00:03:24,000 the catfish episode. You know what I mean? 71 00:03:24,137 --> 00:03:26,172 Like, it was just all of that, and it was, like, 72 00:03:26,344 --> 00:03:29,689 a couple-year process, you know, and, like... -Mm-hmm. 73 00:03:29,689 --> 00:03:31,482 ...just trying to come out of that because, like, 74 00:03:31,655 --> 00:03:36,379 you get in this dark space, and... 75 00:03:37,586 --> 00:03:41,000 it's really hard to come out of, you know? 76 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,930 I -- I'm sorry that she had a dark time in Vegas. 77 00:03:44,793 --> 00:03:47,482 I can't be told that I'm the reason, 78 00:03:47,655 --> 00:03:50,172 because I completely disagree with that. 79 00:03:50,344 --> 00:03:52,517 But I will apologize for not being there for you 80 00:03:52,689 --> 00:03:55,586 when you were going through your dark time. 81 00:03:55,758 --> 00:04:00,413 There was a year of time there where I was struggling 82 00:04:00,586 --> 00:04:02,482 in my relationship with Meri. -OK. 83 00:04:02,655 --> 00:04:05,413 I was going to Robyn while she was pregnant with our -- 84 00:04:05,586 --> 00:04:08,896 our youngest, trying to get some consolation. 85 00:04:08,896 --> 00:04:11,413 And Robyn said, "I don't have the energy to give you. 86 00:04:11,586 --> 00:04:13,896 I'm creating this child inside of me." 87 00:04:14,034 --> 00:04:15,896 But Robyn... 88 00:04:16,034 --> 00:04:20,586 was the witness to my suffering in this relationship with Meri 89 00:04:20,586 --> 00:04:23,896 that had finally gotten too dark to reconcile. 90 00:04:23,896 --> 00:04:25,827 And it was, I mean, I had 91 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,310 a year there of that experience. 92 00:04:28,482 --> 00:04:32,793 When Meri realized what she was under, this is just my part 93 00:04:32,965 --> 00:04:35,379 of the story, what had really happened, 94 00:04:35,379 --> 00:04:39,275 Meri had a wake-up call, I think, that made her go, 95 00:04:39,275 --> 00:04:41,827 "Oh, I wanna stay with this family 96 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:43,379 and work things out." 97 00:04:43,551 --> 00:04:47,379 And I had been given every reason to reconsider it, 98 00:04:47,379 --> 00:04:48,689 and I did. 99 00:04:48,689 --> 00:04:52,103 Did she ever apologize to you for what happened in Vegas? 100 00:04:52,103 --> 00:04:55,103 And if she didn't apologize, is that why you were 101 00:04:55,103 --> 00:04:57,482 testing her and testing her and testing her, 102 00:04:57,482 --> 00:04:59,275 because you didn't know what else to do? -I...no. 103 00:04:59,448 --> 00:05:01,379 I believe Meri thinks she's apologized. 104 00:05:01,551 --> 00:05:03,310 -I don't remember it. -[Sukanya] OK. 105 00:05:03,482 --> 00:05:05,931 So I -- I can't say that she didn't. 106 00:05:06,068 --> 00:05:07,379 I won't say that she didn't. 107 00:05:07,551 --> 00:05:10,517 -But I -- I just don't remember it. -[Sukanya] Mm-hmm. 108 00:05:10,689 --> 00:05:13,413 -And, um -- -How do you not remember something like that? 109 00:05:13,586 --> 00:05:15,724 Like, I believe that it didn't happen, 110 00:05:15,896 --> 00:05:18,275 but I think that Meri said she did apologize. 111 00:05:18,275 --> 00:05:22,000 Did you apologize to Kody for your part in the dark time? 112 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:23,793 Not in that conversation, no. 113 00:05:23,965 --> 00:05:25,896 That's not what that conversation was for. 114 00:05:25,896 --> 00:05:27,689 -That conversation was-- -Will you apologize 115 00:05:27,689 --> 00:05:30,103 to Kody for your part in the dark time? -Oh, I have. 116 00:05:30,275 --> 00:05:31,413 I have. Yeah, no, 117 00:05:31,586 --> 00:05:34,896 we've had a lot of conversations about it, um. 118 00:05:34,896 --> 00:05:37,724 And whether or not he believed or accepted it, 119 00:05:37,896 --> 00:05:42,000 that's -- that's on him, but I -- I did. 120 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,689 -Yeah. -Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 121 00:05:44,689 --> 00:05:47,689 Do you want to talk about Meri's ride-or-die friend, Jenn? 122 00:05:47,689 --> 00:05:48,724 Because she seems to bring out 123 00:05:48,896 --> 00:05:50,517 a lot of different sides of Meri. 124 00:05:50,689 --> 00:05:52,586 -We wanna take a look at this clip... -Ooh. 125 00:05:52,586 --> 00:05:55,275 -...and then we'll get your opinion on what happened. -Can -- 126 00:05:55,275 --> 00:05:58,000 can Jenn exist without trash-talking me? 127 00:05:58,172 --> 00:05:59,379 -That's my question. -I don't know. 128 00:05:59,551 --> 00:06:01,689 -Let's take a look at the clip. -All right, let's see -- 129 00:06:01,862 --> 00:06:04,172 see if she's funny without trash-talking me. 130 00:06:04,172 --> 00:06:07,068 Jenn's definitely my ride-or-die, 100%. 131 00:06:07,241 --> 00:06:09,793 She and I have been best friends for, like, 12 years. 132 00:06:09,965 --> 00:06:11,482 [Jenn] Time for you to end the nice-girl era. 133 00:06:11,655 --> 00:06:15,275 Like, it's not benefiting you. It's only benefiting him. 134 00:06:15,275 --> 00:06:17,517 -Yeah, it is. -So then why are you doing it? 135 00:06:17,689 --> 00:06:18,586 [sighs] 136 00:06:18,758 --> 00:06:20,586 'Cause I don't wanna be a bitch. 137 00:06:20,758 --> 00:06:23,172 I just feel like it's important for you to have 138 00:06:23,344 --> 00:06:28,068 bitch lessons so that you can say the things that sometimes 139 00:06:28,241 --> 00:06:30,413 maybe you think, but then you're like, 140 00:06:30,586 --> 00:06:32,000 "Oh, that shouldn't come out of my mouth." 141 00:06:32,172 --> 00:06:33,896 And it should -- it should come out of your mouth. 142 00:06:34,034 --> 00:06:37,724 Repeat after me. You do not control me. 143 00:06:37,896 --> 00:06:41,482 -You do not control me. -Less smile. 144 00:06:41,655 --> 00:06:44,172 -Oh, you don't control me. -Ooh, I like that. 145 00:06:44,172 --> 00:06:45,586 That was actually really bitchy. 146 00:06:45,586 --> 00:06:46,793 -Bitch. -[gasps] 147 00:06:46,965 --> 00:06:48,793 Comb your [bleep] hair. 148 00:06:48,965 --> 00:06:50,310 Comb your [bleep] hair, Kody. 149 00:06:51,793 --> 00:06:54,275 That one felt like, like, it came deep from your soul. 150 00:06:54,275 --> 00:06:55,379 I'm very proud of you. 151 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:58,724 So what are you thinking? 152 00:06:58,896 --> 00:07:02,689 Well, Meri's always had her voice. 153 00:07:02,689 --> 00:07:05,379 She's always done what she wanted. 154 00:07:05,379 --> 00:07:07,896 She's always pushed... 155 00:07:07,896 --> 00:07:12,275 like, tried to push me around when we were together. 156 00:07:12,275 --> 00:07:14,689 So I don't know why she's, Jenn's like, 157 00:07:14,862 --> 00:07:15,896 "You gotta get your voice back." 158 00:07:15,896 --> 00:07:17,172 -They're acting like -- -Well, did she need 159 00:07:17,172 --> 00:07:20,310 bitch lessons then if she was already had her voice? 160 00:07:20,482 --> 00:07:25,206 Well, no, I mean, having your voice does not make you... 161 00:07:25,379 --> 00:07:26,413 a B-word. 162 00:07:26,586 --> 00:07:29,000 -OK. -OK, [laughs]. 163 00:07:29,137 --> 00:07:30,310 You could say it. 164 00:07:30,482 --> 00:07:31,620 [Kody laughs] Eh. 165 00:07:31,620 --> 00:07:34,689 Like Meri, Meri always had her voice, she -- I -- 166 00:07:34,689 --> 00:07:37,206 Jenn acting like Meri doesn't have a voice or something 167 00:07:37,379 --> 00:07:39,724 like that, Meri's never been shutdown-able. 168 00:07:39,896 --> 00:07:42,172 It's like, I don't know what she's talking about. 169 00:07:42,344 --> 00:07:46,482 Kody actually said that you've always had your voice. 170 00:07:46,482 --> 00:07:50,724 So did she really need to have bitch lessons? 171 00:07:50,896 --> 00:07:53,586 Because in the relationship, he said you've always 172 00:07:53,758 --> 00:07:55,379 spoken your mind. 173 00:07:55,379 --> 00:07:57,379 I think that there was a time, definitely, 174 00:07:57,551 --> 00:07:59,482 that I spoke my mind. 175 00:07:59,655 --> 00:08:05,724 And then I realized that that was not the best way to go. 176 00:08:05,896 --> 00:08:10,310 And so I swung completely over to the other side. 177 00:08:10,482 --> 00:08:13,103 I wasn't in an emotionally 178 00:08:14,068 --> 00:08:17,103 safe place, either in my relationships 179 00:08:17,103 --> 00:08:19,206 or even with myself, to do that. 180 00:08:19,379 --> 00:08:22,172 And so I felt like there was a long time that I didn't. 181 00:08:22,172 --> 00:08:25,172 When was that part of you that completely shut down? 182 00:08:25,172 --> 00:08:29,482 -When was that time? -I would say that was in the Vegas years. 183 00:08:29,482 --> 00:08:31,068 So that was during your dark time? 184 00:08:31,241 --> 00:08:33,586 Yeah. Prior to that as well, though. 185 00:08:33,586 --> 00:08:34,895 -OK. -Yeah. 186 00:08:34,895 --> 00:08:36,379 So you just felt like you didn't value yourself 187 00:08:36,551 --> 00:08:39,275 or you felt like you didn't value your opinion or...? -No, it was... 188 00:08:39,275 --> 00:08:43,000 I thought the best way to handle it would be to not rock 189 00:08:43,172 --> 00:08:47,000 the boat, don't say anything, don't put myself out there, 190 00:08:47,172 --> 00:08:49,586 and just do what I was supposed to do. 191 00:08:49,586 --> 00:08:53,724 And I think our relationship is so good because of this. 192 00:08:53,896 --> 00:08:55,689 It doesn't matter what my feelings are, 193 00:08:55,689 --> 00:08:56,896 it doesn't matter what I say, 194 00:08:56,896 --> 00:08:59,413 and it doesn't matter what I think. 195 00:08:59,586 --> 00:09:00,793 We're still friends. 196 00:09:00,793 --> 00:09:02,827 We're still friends, and I don't get punished 197 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:04,310 for having a thought. 198 00:09:04,482 --> 00:09:06,310 When you say "punished for having a thought," 199 00:09:06,482 --> 00:09:08,275 were you punished prior for having a thought 200 00:09:08,448 --> 00:09:10,827 and having an opinion? -It felt that way, yeah. 201 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:12,896 -Punished, like... -Excluded? 202 00:09:12,896 --> 00:09:15,517 Yeah, either kicked out of the club, 203 00:09:16,482 --> 00:09:19,172 emotionally, like, rejected. 204 00:09:19,172 --> 00:09:21,827 There was a lot of -- a lot of different 205 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,275 situations that, in my opinion, 206 00:09:24,275 --> 00:09:27,000 I was not accepted into. 207 00:09:28,172 --> 00:09:30,793 Why do you think Kody doesn't like Jenn? 208 00:09:30,965 --> 00:09:32,275 Um... 209 00:09:32,448 --> 00:09:36,172 I think that Jenn speaks her mind and she doesn't let 210 00:09:36,172 --> 00:09:38,000 anybody control and manipulate her. 211 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,793 I don't think he likes someone who's so strong 212 00:09:41,965 --> 00:09:43,103 and so strong-willed 213 00:09:43,103 --> 00:09:45,482 and so outspoken with their opinion. 214 00:09:45,655 --> 00:09:48,827 He needs a yes-person, a "Yes, yes, yes, you're right, 215 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,103 let me bow down a little bit and let me kiss your feet." 216 00:09:51,103 --> 00:09:53,689 I think that would not be Jenn or that kind of a... 217 00:09:54,793 --> 00:09:56,793 So I -- I am very much 218 00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:59,896 an outspoken person. -[Sukanya] OK. 219 00:09:59,896 --> 00:10:02,206 And I think Kody forgets how much time 220 00:10:02,379 --> 00:10:04,275 we actually spend together. 221 00:10:04,275 --> 00:10:07,931 So there's times where conversations have been had 222 00:10:08,068 --> 00:10:10,793 or he'll text or he'll call or something happens. 223 00:10:10,965 --> 00:10:14,000 -And I'm literally there, I'm around. -Right. 224 00:10:14,172 --> 00:10:17,275 And so the true Kody then shines through. 225 00:10:17,275 --> 00:10:20,068 And there's times where he's said and done things that were 226 00:10:20,241 --> 00:10:22,103 really not OK. 227 00:10:22,103 --> 00:10:26,827 There's like this undertone of, "Well, this is my expectation. 228 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,172 Therefore, this is what's going to happen." 229 00:10:30,068 --> 00:10:33,275 And if you don't agree with it, then like, 230 00:10:34,482 --> 00:10:35,586 there's like this disdain. 231 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,310 Yeah, I don't trust Jenn, 232 00:10:39,482 --> 00:10:41,172 but it doesn't matter because 233 00:10:41,172 --> 00:10:43,103 Meri and I are no longer together. 234 00:10:43,103 --> 00:10:46,482 And if Meri feels like Jenn's got her back, 235 00:10:46,482 --> 00:10:47,793 then that's great. 236 00:10:47,965 --> 00:10:49,620 Jenn wants to sit and trash-talk me. 237 00:10:49,793 --> 00:10:51,103 That's the first offense. 238 00:10:51,275 --> 00:10:55,482 Whether she's got Meri's best interest in mind, I don't know. 239 00:10:55,482 --> 00:10:56,896 Maybe, here's the thing -- 240 00:10:57,034 --> 00:11:00,103 maybe people just don't think the plural marriage is good 241 00:11:00,275 --> 00:11:02,000 and Meri wasn't happy in plural marriage and that was 242 00:11:02,172 --> 00:11:03,310 Meri's best interest in mind. 243 00:11:03,482 --> 00:11:04,896 -Well, do you blame... -I don't think Jenn was -- 244 00:11:05,034 --> 00:11:06,896 Do you blame Jenn... 245 00:11:07,034 --> 00:11:08,379 -No, I think -- -...for Meri leaving? 246 00:11:09,379 --> 00:11:11,000 -[laughs] No. -OK. 247 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,172 I mean, Jenn just had her part in whatever advice she was 248 00:11:14,172 --> 00:11:16,310 giving Meri. I mean, I think -- 249 00:11:16,482 --> 00:11:21,586 -Did Jenn influence, have some sort of influence over Meri. -Sure, I believe she did. 250 00:11:21,586 --> 00:11:24,068 Meri's actions to leave the family? 251 00:11:24,241 --> 00:11:26,103 Possibly, yes. 252 00:11:26,275 --> 00:11:28,482 I mean, like, listen, it's not my story to tell anymore, 253 00:11:28,655 --> 00:11:30,172 and I don't trash-talk Jenn anymore. 254 00:11:30,344 --> 00:11:31,310 It's verboten. 255 00:11:31,482 --> 00:11:33,482 What do you think about Meri's BFF, Jenn? 256 00:11:33,655 --> 00:11:35,172 -You know her, or did you know her? -Yeah. 257 00:11:35,344 --> 00:11:36,482 No, we knew her. 258 00:11:37,931 --> 00:11:39,793 We've -- I -- we've known her for a long time. 259 00:11:40,827 --> 00:11:43,000 She used to be the lady who would come and spray 260 00:11:43,137 --> 00:11:44,586 our houses for bugs. That was their business. 261 00:11:44,586 --> 00:11:46,206 Oh, so she owned a pest-control company? 262 00:11:46,379 --> 00:11:47,689 Yes, yeah. 263 00:11:47,689 --> 00:11:51,793 And I remember that she became really good friends with Meri 264 00:11:51,793 --> 00:11:53,482 during that time when all the catfishing 265 00:11:53,482 --> 00:11:55,379 and everything was going on. 266 00:11:55,551 --> 00:11:56,724 And a lot of drama was going on 267 00:11:56,896 --> 00:11:59,103 in Kody and Meri's relationship. 268 00:11:59,275 --> 00:12:01,206 And then, I will say, she said to me one time, 269 00:12:01,379 --> 00:12:03,724 "Well, I told Meri that she should, you know, 270 00:12:03,896 --> 00:12:05,482 just take all the money and -- and leave." 271 00:12:05,482 --> 00:12:07,000 And I -- at that point, 272 00:12:07,172 --> 00:12:08,827 I sort of ended that professional relationship 273 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,689 with her because I felt uncomfortable. 274 00:12:10,862 --> 00:12:15,379 So you told Kody what was said between you and Jenn? 275 00:12:15,379 --> 00:12:16,896 Yeah, I must have. 276 00:12:17,034 --> 00:12:20,310 Because he probably wondered why I was ending the, like, 277 00:12:20,482 --> 00:12:22,310 why I was looking for a different person. 278 00:12:22,482 --> 00:12:24,068 [Sukanya] Mm-hmm. 279 00:12:24,241 --> 00:12:27,068 Did you tell Meri to take the money and run? 280 00:12:27,241 --> 00:12:31,482 I sincerely regret not telling Meri to leave. 281 00:12:31,655 --> 00:12:33,827 But I never told her to take the money and run. 282 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:38,793 And what's funny, too, is I have never heard this story 283 00:12:38,965 --> 00:12:40,482 until literally this year. 284 00:12:40,655 --> 00:12:42,689 He's like, "Meri, I have to tell you something. 285 00:12:42,862 --> 00:12:44,793 Jenn's not good for you because this is what she did." 286 00:12:44,793 --> 00:12:48,103 And I'm like, "She never told me that." 287 00:12:48,275 --> 00:12:50,896 Why would she go tell Janelle that she told me that? 288 00:12:51,034 --> 00:12:53,275 Like, she never told me to... 289 00:12:54,413 --> 00:12:56,000 take the money and run. 290 00:12:56,137 --> 00:12:57,586 Oh, he's like, "Well, Janelle said that. 291 00:12:57,758 --> 00:12:59,000 Janelle told me when it actually happened." 292 00:12:59,172 --> 00:13:00,586 I'm like, "It never happened." 293 00:13:00,758 --> 00:13:02,896 And then I did go and talk to Jenn about it. 294 00:13:02,896 --> 00:13:04,379 Maybe she could have said it. 295 00:13:04,379 --> 00:13:08,172 But I don't think that Jenn's intention back then 296 00:13:08,344 --> 00:13:11,310 was to have Meri leave. 297 00:13:11,482 --> 00:13:15,000 From what I remember, I don't know, it seems like Meri was 298 00:13:15,137 --> 00:13:18,413 still, really wanted to be part of the family and was really 299 00:13:18,586 --> 00:13:21,275 loyal towards being part of the family. 300 00:13:21,448 --> 00:13:26,000 -So a real friend wouldn't counsel in that way seriously. -Mm-hmm. 301 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,517 I think that if she said it, it was probably be more 302 00:13:28,689 --> 00:13:30,379 of like a [sarcastically] "You should totally, 303 00:13:30,551 --> 00:13:32,379 totally take the money and run," you know? 304 00:13:32,379 --> 00:13:34,275 She's very sarcastic. 305 00:13:34,448 --> 00:13:36,689 She probably did say it, but I would say in a sarcastic 306 00:13:36,689 --> 00:13:38,793 way if she did. But I don't know. -Mm-hmm. 307 00:13:38,793 --> 00:13:41,000 -Yeah. -She actually denied ever saying that 308 00:13:41,137 --> 00:13:44,172 take-the-money-and-run comment. -I remember very clearly. 309 00:13:44,172 --> 00:13:46,896 So I know what I -- what I remember. 310 00:13:46,896 --> 00:13:49,000 -And it was a very long time ago. -Mm-hmm. 311 00:13:49,172 --> 00:13:50,379 So who knows? 312 00:13:50,379 --> 00:13:52,206 But it doesn't really matter now -- I think Jenn's great. 313 00:13:52,379 --> 00:13:54,586 -I think she's wonderful for Meri. -Yeah. 314 00:13:54,586 --> 00:13:58,586 Did she ever come to you and ask you to help Meri during 315 00:13:58,758 --> 00:14:02,068 this dark time that Meri was going through in Vegas? 316 00:14:02,241 --> 00:14:03,275 No, she never -- 317 00:14:03,275 --> 00:14:05,103 we never really talk about that. 318 00:14:05,103 --> 00:14:07,896 I was at Janelle's house, and she's like, "Is Meri OK?" 319 00:14:07,896 --> 00:14:10,275 And I said, "No, she is not OK. 320 00:14:10,448 --> 00:14:13,103 She is definitely not OK. She needs you guys." 321 00:14:13,275 --> 00:14:14,586 And then I left Janelle's and I went to Meri's 322 00:14:14,758 --> 00:14:16,310 and I said, "Just so you know, 323 00:14:16,482 --> 00:14:18,000 "I was talking about you behind your back. 324 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,206 "I told her that you guys -- 325 00:14:20,379 --> 00:14:21,931 that they need to come and talk to you." 326 00:14:22,068 --> 00:14:24,379 And she goes, "Well, that'll never happen." 327 00:14:24,551 --> 00:14:26,689 I assumed that it was like... 328 00:14:26,689 --> 00:14:28,172 -The sister wives were a lot closer? -Yeah. 329 00:14:28,344 --> 00:14:29,413 Yes, I really did. 330 00:14:29,586 --> 00:14:32,482 And so I didn't know when I first told Janelle, 331 00:14:32,655 --> 00:14:34,586 "Hey, you should, you guys should go talk to her." 332 00:14:34,758 --> 00:14:36,103 So once I finally started to realize that 333 00:14:36,103 --> 00:14:38,413 and I saw how unhappy she was, 334 00:14:38,586 --> 00:14:41,206 and I saw that no matter what she did and what she tried, 335 00:14:41,379 --> 00:14:43,793 I mean, she got a divorce for Pete's sake, 336 00:14:43,793 --> 00:14:47,793 just to like make things better for everybody else. 337 00:14:47,965 --> 00:14:51,275 And it put her own relationship in complete turmoil 338 00:14:51,448 --> 00:14:53,379 at the same time she was becoming an empty-nester. 339 00:14:53,379 --> 00:14:56,275 And not a single person was there to, like, 340 00:14:56,448 --> 00:14:58,275 help her through that. -[Sukanya] Mm-hmm. 341 00:14:58,275 --> 00:15:01,000 I mean, you don't go and frame your marriage certificate 342 00:15:01,172 --> 00:15:03,068 to the person that you just got married to 343 00:15:04,275 --> 00:15:08,206 when the sister-wife is divorced, like, it was -- -Yeah. 344 00:15:08,379 --> 00:15:10,689 Sorry, it was just so insane to me 345 00:15:10,689 --> 00:15:11,793 that they weren't there for her. 346 00:15:11,965 --> 00:15:14,482 Who made up that part of take-the-money-and-run? 347 00:15:14,655 --> 00:15:17,379 It doesn't, I don't know, because it doesn't make sense. 348 00:15:17,379 --> 00:15:19,827 The thing is, I literally never stopped spraying 349 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,310 any houses. -She never stopped. 350 00:15:21,310 --> 00:15:25,172 I sold my company, and they all continued to be my customers. 351 00:15:25,172 --> 00:15:29,068 To me, it feels like that this is a story that has just 352 00:15:29,241 --> 00:15:32,103 recently been fabricated for whatever reason. 353 00:15:32,275 --> 00:15:33,344 [Sukanya] Coming up... 354 00:15:33,517 --> 00:15:35,620 Meri also said that you weren't there for her 355 00:15:35,793 --> 00:15:38,379 in Vegas during her dark times, that you were somebody that 356 00:15:38,551 --> 00:15:40,620 she would lean on, needed, 357 00:15:40,793 --> 00:15:42,482 and you weren't there for her. 358 00:15:42,482 --> 00:15:45,689 Well, that's a different -- that's different than what she said in the past. 359 00:15:45,689 --> 00:15:48,793 Love it when I find out things from you [chuckles] 360 00:15:48,965 --> 00:15:50,620 instead of from her. 361 00:15:50,793 --> 00:15:52,000 When Meri was sitting on the sofa, 362 00:15:52,137 --> 00:15:53,068 she said the same thing, 363 00:15:53,241 --> 00:15:54,586 that she would share things with Robyn 364 00:15:54,758 --> 00:15:57,482 and it would get back to you. 365 00:15:57,482 --> 00:15:59,896 I think they're scapegoating Robyn. 366 00:15:59,896 --> 00:16:01,586 That's bull[bleep]. 367 00:16:06,689 --> 00:16:08,379 -[Sukanya] Can I ask you a question? -Mm-hmm. 368 00:16:08,379 --> 00:16:11,965 Do you think that you could sit down with other sister wives 369 00:16:12,103 --> 00:16:14,103 and also, you know, like Robyn, 370 00:16:15,620 --> 00:16:17,413 and have a conversation together? 371 00:16:17,586 --> 00:16:19,758 -Just you and her? -Just me and Robyn? 372 00:16:19,931 --> 00:16:21,379 And not trigger each other? 373 00:16:21,551 --> 00:16:23,310 Robyn and I could have a conversation 374 00:16:23,482 --> 00:16:24,689 and not trigger each other. -Really? 375 00:16:24,862 --> 00:16:25,862 [Meri] I think so. 376 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,896 She and I had a good relationship. 377 00:16:27,896 --> 00:16:29,793 Everybody saw it. We had a good relationship. 378 00:16:29,793 --> 00:16:31,965 But, you know, that just kind of, 379 00:16:32,103 --> 00:16:35,689 over the years, disintegrated. There was a lack of trust. 380 00:16:35,862 --> 00:16:39,793 -So what dissolved the trust? -Oh, my gosh. 381 00:16:39,793 --> 00:16:44,586 There -- you know, the fact that, um... 382 00:16:44,586 --> 00:16:47,793 she wasn't around for me, I felt like that she wasn't 383 00:16:47,965 --> 00:16:51,862 around for me in, you know, my dark time back in Vegas. 384 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:53,206 How wasn't she there for you 385 00:16:53,379 --> 00:16:55,379 during your dark time in Vegas? 386 00:16:55,551 --> 00:16:58,000 I think that she was trying, but there was, like, 387 00:16:58,137 --> 00:17:00,896 certain things that I would say to her that would 388 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,068 be found out. 389 00:17:04,241 --> 00:17:05,482 I don't know what you're talking about, can you -- 390 00:17:05,655 --> 00:17:07,378 I would have conversations with her. 391 00:17:07,550 --> 00:17:09,964 And then, my private conversation, 392 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:12,413 things would be found out. 393 00:17:12,586 --> 00:17:14,172 Other people would find out. 394 00:17:14,344 --> 00:17:16,482 Meri also said that you weren't there for her 395 00:17:16,655 --> 00:17:19,275 in Vegas during her dark times, that you were somebody 396 00:17:19,275 --> 00:17:20,896 that she would 397 00:17:20,896 --> 00:17:22,310 lean on, needed, 398 00:17:22,482 --> 00:17:24,000 and you weren't there for her. 399 00:17:24,172 --> 00:17:26,172 Well, that's a different -- that's different than what 400 00:17:26,344 --> 00:17:27,586 she said in the past. 401 00:17:27,586 --> 00:17:29,689 So, it's her new narrative. 402 00:17:30,620 --> 00:17:33,275 I mean, she used to say that, that I was there for her. 403 00:17:33,275 --> 00:17:36,172 Now she's saying I'm not, I wasn't, so... 404 00:17:36,172 --> 00:17:39,000 -Do you think you were there for her? -Yeah. 405 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:40,862 I do. 406 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:45,275 -Yeah. -She said there was a betrayal of trust that happened. 407 00:17:45,448 --> 00:17:47,413 Like, she would say some things to you... 408 00:17:47,586 --> 00:17:48,655 Uh-huh. 409 00:17:48,655 --> 00:17:51,965 ...and then those things would somehow get out. 410 00:17:52,103 --> 00:17:54,965 Don't know what she's talking about as far as, like, 411 00:17:55,103 --> 00:17:57,896 things that I supposedly... 412 00:18:01,275 --> 00:18:02,689 She just felt like it was a violation 413 00:18:02,689 --> 00:18:04,965 of her trust with you. -OK. 414 00:18:05,103 --> 00:18:06,103 Well, that's news to me. 415 00:18:06,103 --> 00:18:08,586 Love it when I find out things from you, 416 00:18:08,586 --> 00:18:11,000 [chuckles] instead of from her. 417 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,206 You've actually talked about your own trust issues 418 00:18:13,379 --> 00:18:15,482 with Robyn, right? -Yeah -- yeah. 419 00:18:15,655 --> 00:18:17,517 And you've been very, very vocal about that. 420 00:18:17,689 --> 00:18:19,000 Yes, yes. 421 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,379 You two had date night where you both discussed how moving 422 00:18:21,379 --> 00:18:25,068 forward as a family would have some challenges, but you guys 423 00:18:25,241 --> 00:18:27,896 were opening to talking about some of those challenges... -Yeah. 424 00:18:28,034 --> 00:18:30,000 -...and how to push through as a family. -Yeah. 425 00:18:30,137 --> 00:18:31,482 So let's take a look at this conversation 426 00:18:31,482 --> 00:18:33,379 and then we can discuss. 427 00:18:33,551 --> 00:18:36,103 I feel betrayed by Robyn, just betrayed. 428 00:18:36,103 --> 00:18:38,172 You know, there's things I confided in her, 429 00:18:38,344 --> 00:18:41,068 and then she would tell Kody, and I'd get in trouble. 430 00:18:41,241 --> 00:18:43,172 As much as 431 00:18:43,172 --> 00:18:44,620 she talked about wanting to be a sister wife, 432 00:18:44,793 --> 00:18:46,517 there was just not enough 433 00:18:46,689 --> 00:18:49,517 proof to show that, because you need proof. 434 00:18:49,689 --> 00:18:51,689 Like, a sister wife relationship is one that 435 00:18:51,862 --> 00:18:53,379 you have to be able to trust the other person, 436 00:18:53,379 --> 00:18:54,758 you know, and I couldn't. 437 00:18:54,931 --> 00:18:56,689 I -- [sighs] -- I don't know. 438 00:18:56,689 --> 00:18:59,413 I'm a person that I like to be able to think that 439 00:19:00,586 --> 00:19:02,206 we can all get along in this world. 440 00:19:02,379 --> 00:19:04,275 Eventually, everybody does need to get together, 441 00:19:04,448 --> 00:19:05,413 and I don't know what that looks like, 442 00:19:05,586 --> 00:19:06,517 and I don't know what that would take. 443 00:19:06,689 --> 00:19:07,965 Would it take therapy? I don't know. 444 00:19:09,103 --> 00:19:11,689 Oh, I'm gonna start with Christine. 445 00:19:12,793 --> 00:19:14,586 Talking about Robyn and saying that they were... 446 00:19:14,586 --> 00:19:15,586 -And getting in trouble? -[Sukanya] Yeah. 447 00:19:15,586 --> 00:19:17,896 No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. 448 00:19:17,896 --> 00:19:20,275 Robyn wasn't coming to me with complaints. 449 00:19:20,448 --> 00:19:24,586 I was experiencing a life with Christine that was pissing me off. 450 00:19:24,758 --> 00:19:27,862 Anytime I came after Christine like, "Hey, listen, your crappy 451 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,620 attitude isn't helping us," wasn't because of something 452 00:19:30,793 --> 00:19:33,379 Robyn said or what Meri or Janelle said. 453 00:19:33,379 --> 00:19:36,793 It was specifically because I was in this relationship 454 00:19:36,793 --> 00:19:40,482 with Christine getting upset because of the way 455 00:19:40,482 --> 00:19:41,758 our relationship was. 456 00:19:41,931 --> 00:19:43,862 But why would she feel that 457 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,793 Robyn was repeating what she was saying? 458 00:19:46,793 --> 00:19:48,482 Obviously, she was having a candid conversation 459 00:19:48,655 --> 00:19:50,482 with another sister wife about you. 460 00:19:50,482 --> 00:19:52,379 And then if it got back to you, 461 00:19:53,793 --> 00:19:55,482 how did it get back to you? 462 00:19:55,655 --> 00:19:57,896 I -- there was no time when 463 00:19:57,896 --> 00:20:00,310 I ever felt like Robyn was betraying 464 00:20:00,482 --> 00:20:01,758 somebody else's trust. 465 00:20:01,931 --> 00:20:03,896 -And Christine -- -But Christine feels that way. 466 00:20:04,034 --> 00:20:08,896 Great, she feels that way, but I -- I'm really like -- 467 00:20:08,896 --> 00:20:11,896 I'm, like, going everything that I experienced with Christine, 468 00:20:12,034 --> 00:20:14,103 I experienced with Christine. 469 00:20:14,103 --> 00:20:18,620 I didn't think like she was doing well in plural marriage 470 00:20:18,793 --> 00:20:20,586 and it was bugging me. 471 00:20:20,758 --> 00:20:25,068 We wouldn't go out and sit in the backyard and eat because 472 00:20:25,241 --> 00:20:26,896 Christine was worried Janelle would come over. 473 00:20:27,034 --> 00:20:30,172 -And I'm like, "Well, Christine, that's our family." -Yeah. 474 00:20:30,344 --> 00:20:34,482 So it's like, if you and me want time out, let's go out. 475 00:20:34,482 --> 00:20:36,482 If we're having stuff with the kids, 476 00:20:36,482 --> 00:20:37,482 then let's go out in the backyard 477 00:20:37,482 --> 00:20:38,758 and if Janelle comes over, that's fine. 478 00:20:38,931 --> 00:20:40,000 But Christine isn't the only one saying this. 479 00:20:40,172 --> 00:20:41,379 When Meri was sitting on the sofa, 480 00:20:41,379 --> 00:20:42,379 she said the same thing, 481 00:20:42,551 --> 00:20:44,000 that she would share things with Robyn 482 00:20:44,172 --> 00:20:47,793 and it would get back to you and get back to other people. 483 00:20:47,965 --> 00:20:50,206 I think they're scapegoating Robyn. 484 00:20:50,379 --> 00:20:52,620 That's bull[bleep] because I think 485 00:20:52,793 --> 00:20:55,793 that all my problems with Meri 486 00:20:55,965 --> 00:20:59,689 were me and Meri having problems, not Robyn tattling. 487 00:21:01,379 --> 00:21:02,793 That's if you're trying to help someone and help 488 00:21:02,793 --> 00:21:07,689 a relationship, then that person can mediate in front of you, 489 00:21:07,689 --> 00:21:09,586 but if you're gonna talk about, like, so if there 490 00:21:09,586 --> 00:21:11,275 was a situation where she was trying to help 491 00:21:11,448 --> 00:21:14,172 Kody and I at the same time, OK, yeah. 492 00:21:14,172 --> 00:21:16,172 But if I'm gonna talk to her and then she's gonna go 493 00:21:16,344 --> 00:21:19,275 behind my back and talk to Kody about it, then you can't trust 494 00:21:19,448 --> 00:21:23,689 someone who does that. So I trusted her, 495 00:21:23,689 --> 00:21:27,000 and I opened up to her, and I did let her know what was 496 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,482 close to my heart, that he was whatever, he wasn't being 497 00:21:30,655 --> 00:21:34,103 present in my kids' life, and he wasn't, like, just part 498 00:21:34,275 --> 00:21:36,103 of that -- he just wasn't part of it. 499 00:21:36,103 --> 00:21:37,620 -Got it. -And then... 500 00:21:37,793 --> 00:21:40,103 I don't know what she would tell him, 501 00:21:40,275 --> 00:21:44,172 but it wasn't like he would ever come to me and be like, 502 00:21:44,172 --> 00:21:47,000 "Ah, you know, Robyn told me about something 503 00:21:47,172 --> 00:21:49,206 "that you told her, and let's talk about that 504 00:21:49,379 --> 00:21:51,206 and let's -- let's, like, fix that." 505 00:21:51,379 --> 00:21:53,862 No, it was he'd come at me with anger. 506 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,103 And so I don't know what she told him, 507 00:21:56,103 --> 00:21:57,379 but she did tell him 508 00:21:57,379 --> 00:21:59,689 without me knowing she was gonna tell him. 509 00:21:59,689 --> 00:22:02,413 I just, like, it was just done in a way 510 00:22:02,586 --> 00:22:07,482 that instead of helping, it just really hurt. -OK. 511 00:22:07,655 --> 00:22:10,103 Christine and I are no longer together 512 00:22:10,103 --> 00:22:13,413 because of Christine and I. Has nothing to do with Robyn. 513 00:22:14,517 --> 00:22:17,275 She's being a total hypocrite here. 514 00:22:17,448 --> 00:22:19,689 I'm sorry to say that, because she's talking out both 515 00:22:19,862 --> 00:22:21,000 sides of her mouth. 516 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,965 She's talking about getting the family together, 517 00:22:25,103 --> 00:22:26,517 but she never wants to have 518 00:22:26,689 --> 00:22:28,379 a relationship with Meri or Robyn. 519 00:22:30,793 --> 00:22:33,275 Double-minded completely. It's OK. 520 00:22:33,275 --> 00:22:34,517 That's her life. 521 00:22:34,689 --> 00:22:36,517 And I'm just not gonna let it bother me, 522 00:22:36,689 --> 00:22:38,896 but it does bother me when they try to blame Robyn 523 00:22:40,206 --> 00:22:42,862 for what was wrong in them. 524 00:22:43,896 --> 00:22:45,379 I'm just gonna ask this one more time. 525 00:22:45,379 --> 00:22:47,586 -[Kody] What? -Did Robyn ever tell you things 526 00:22:47,758 --> 00:22:50,000 that were told to her in confidence? 527 00:23:01,379 --> 00:23:03,172 -I'm just gonna ask this one more time. -What? 528 00:23:03,344 --> 00:23:05,172 Did Robyn ever tell you things 529 00:23:05,172 --> 00:23:08,206 that were told to her in confidence? 530 00:23:10,689 --> 00:23:12,965 The catfishing stuff was probably stuff 531 00:23:13,103 --> 00:23:14,655 she brought to me, yeah. 532 00:23:16,172 --> 00:23:18,965 But I don't know that she was told that in confidence 533 00:23:19,103 --> 00:23:20,482 or if she saw that online. 534 00:23:21,793 --> 00:23:23,655 [scoffs] 535 00:23:23,827 --> 00:23:25,448 That's funny. They're all gone. 536 00:23:25,620 --> 00:23:26,551 They've been gone for years. 537 00:23:26,724 --> 00:23:28,275 They're still blaming Robyn for it. 538 00:23:28,448 --> 00:23:30,000 Why don't they just blame themselves? 539 00:23:30,172 --> 00:23:31,862 They weren't happy in the marriage 540 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,448 and that they and me, each one of them, 541 00:23:35,620 --> 00:23:37,379 couldn't work out the relationship. 542 00:23:38,896 --> 00:23:41,689 We actually had a conversation with him in the Vegas kitchen 543 00:23:41,689 --> 00:23:43,379 and tried to explain something to him 544 00:23:43,379 --> 00:23:47,379 that he just refused to accept, and it was during the catfish. 545 00:23:47,551 --> 00:23:49,896 We tried very hard to, like, give him 546 00:23:49,896 --> 00:23:52,275 all the information he was asking for, 547 00:23:52,448 --> 00:23:53,965 and because he didn't wanna hear it, 548 00:23:54,103 --> 00:23:55,793 he shut her down, and that was the end of it. 549 00:23:55,965 --> 00:23:58,034 She's like, "There's no point. There's just no point in trying 550 00:23:58,206 --> 00:23:59,517 to have a conversation with him." 551 00:23:59,517 --> 00:24:02,172 And so it was in moments like that that, OK, well, I guess 552 00:24:02,172 --> 00:24:03,793 you don't want to have a conversation with me. 553 00:24:03,965 --> 00:24:06,275 You don't want to hear what actually is going on. 554 00:24:06,448 --> 00:24:08,586 You already have a different narrative in your head 555 00:24:08,758 --> 00:24:09,896 of what's going on. 556 00:24:10,034 --> 00:24:12,896 So I'm -- I'm doing this one on my own then. 557 00:24:12,896 --> 00:24:14,482 -So this is during your dark times when you're having... -Yeah. 558 00:24:14,655 --> 00:24:17,793 -...a conversation publicly with another man? -Yeah. 559 00:24:17,793 --> 00:24:19,275 -Yeah. -[Sukanya] Right? 560 00:24:19,448 --> 00:24:21,000 So you're having a conversation publicly? 561 00:24:21,172 --> 00:24:23,689 I mean, it wasn't a public conversation until 562 00:24:23,689 --> 00:24:27,379 the catfisher decided to, you know, make it public. 563 00:24:27,551 --> 00:24:28,586 [Sukanya] OK, OK. 564 00:24:28,758 --> 00:24:30,068 They were not public conversations. 565 00:24:30,068 --> 00:24:31,758 [Sukanya] They were not public conversations, but they did 566 00:24:31,931 --> 00:24:32,965 become public and -- 567 00:24:33,103 --> 00:24:35,862 The version that 568 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,689 he wanted to, he, she, whatever, wanted to tell 569 00:24:38,862 --> 00:24:41,793 is what became public. -[Sukanya] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 570 00:24:41,965 --> 00:24:44,034 Yeah, not my version and not the truth. 571 00:24:44,206 --> 00:24:46,586 But what were you trying to explain to Kody in the kitchen 572 00:24:46,758 --> 00:24:48,793 that he didn't want to hear? 573 00:24:48,965 --> 00:24:51,482 What was actually happening with that. 574 00:24:51,655 --> 00:24:53,275 That this person was, 575 00:24:54,793 --> 00:24:59,000 like, kind of coming after me and kind of coming after us 576 00:24:59,137 --> 00:25:03,275 and there's, like, us as a family and the manipulation 577 00:25:03,275 --> 00:25:04,965 that was all involved in that 578 00:25:05,103 --> 00:25:06,793 and the lies that were all involved in that. 579 00:25:08,172 --> 00:25:12,172 Do you understand why maybe Meri could have a right 580 00:25:12,344 --> 00:25:14,000 to distrust you? 581 00:25:14,137 --> 00:25:15,689 No. 582 00:25:15,862 --> 00:25:17,206 No. 583 00:25:17,206 --> 00:25:19,000 -After everything that's happened, you don't feel that... -No. 584 00:25:19,137 --> 00:25:20,586 ...Meri has any grounds to distrust you? 585 00:25:20,586 --> 00:25:23,379 No, I do not. I absolutely do not. 586 00:25:23,551 --> 00:25:26,137 I have been, I have had Meri's back. 587 00:25:27,068 --> 00:25:29,034 She said, I'm gonna go back to this again, 588 00:25:29,206 --> 00:25:31,793 she said in Vegas when she was going through her dark times, 589 00:25:31,965 --> 00:25:33,551 she leaned on you. -Yeah. 590 00:25:33,724 --> 00:25:35,586 And when she shared things with you, 591 00:25:35,758 --> 00:25:37,586 it would end up coming back to her. 592 00:25:37,586 --> 00:25:42,172 All I know is that she was having a conversation online 593 00:25:42,344 --> 00:25:47,551 about flowers and texting and music and flirting. 594 00:25:47,724 --> 00:25:50,379 And I was like, "She is struggling." 595 00:25:50,379 --> 00:25:52,551 Get your butt over there. 596 00:25:52,724 --> 00:25:54,241 Figure this out with her. 597 00:25:54,413 --> 00:25:56,965 That's what I was doing, OK? 598 00:25:57,103 --> 00:25:59,137 She's sitting here saying that she can't trust me 599 00:25:59,310 --> 00:26:00,344 'cause of this or that or the other. 600 00:26:00,517 --> 00:26:02,896 I had her freaking back, OK? 601 00:26:02,896 --> 00:26:05,862 I was sitting there watching everything that was happening, 602 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,758 and I was worried about her. And I was saying, 603 00:26:10,034 --> 00:26:12,482 "She kicked you out? You go stay in another room. 604 00:26:12,482 --> 00:26:14,379 "You have the conversation with her. 605 00:26:14,551 --> 00:26:17,965 "You don't come over here. You go work it out with her. 606 00:26:18,103 --> 00:26:19,344 She's being taken advantage of." 607 00:26:19,517 --> 00:26:22,758 Even if I didn't know it was a catfishing situation, 608 00:26:22,931 --> 00:26:24,896 even just somebody sitting there taking advantage 609 00:26:24,896 --> 00:26:27,793 of someone who was struggling, a woman who's struggling. 610 00:26:27,965 --> 00:26:29,896 I was like, "You get your butt over there, and you talk 611 00:26:30,034 --> 00:26:31,344 to her -- you work this out. 612 00:26:31,517 --> 00:26:33,689 I was talking to her. "What is this? 613 00:26:33,862 --> 00:26:36,000 "What is this conversation you're having? 614 00:26:36,172 --> 00:26:37,965 Why are you talking to this person?" 615 00:26:38,965 --> 00:26:40,586 -Mm-hmm. -I was trying to -- 616 00:26:40,586 --> 00:26:42,896 I was being open with both of them. 617 00:26:44,034 --> 00:26:46,241 -I was talking to both of them. -Mm-hmm. 618 00:26:48,241 --> 00:26:50,379 If people wanna say, if she wants to say that 619 00:26:50,551 --> 00:26:52,379 somehow I did something wrong there, that is fine. 620 00:26:52,551 --> 00:26:54,551 I don't have a problem with that because 621 00:26:54,724 --> 00:26:57,000 I know what my intentions were. -Mm-hmm. 622 00:26:59,344 --> 00:27:03,448 Robyn did, Robyn would come over and talk to me about it. 623 00:27:03,620 --> 00:27:05,137 And, like, "What's going on? What's going on?" 624 00:27:05,310 --> 00:27:06,896 And I would tell her what's going on. 625 00:27:07,034 --> 00:27:08,655 But then other stuff would happen, 626 00:27:08,827 --> 00:27:11,482 and other stories would be out there, and other 627 00:27:12,379 --> 00:27:14,896 communications, supposedly, you know, 628 00:27:15,034 --> 00:27:17,689 would happen, and -- and... 629 00:27:17,689 --> 00:27:19,448 So you put two and two together, and you're saying 630 00:27:19,620 --> 00:27:21,034 that maybe Robyn was the leak? 631 00:27:22,275 --> 00:27:25,896 I'm not saying I know who was the leak. 632 00:27:25,896 --> 00:27:27,655 I just know that... 633 00:27:27,827 --> 00:27:29,103 You know what? No. 634 00:27:30,482 --> 00:27:32,862 No. There were times that 635 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,758 I would have a conversation 636 00:27:35,586 --> 00:27:37,689 with Robyn... -[Sukanya] Mm-hmm. 637 00:27:37,862 --> 00:27:39,793 that the catfisher would find out about. 638 00:27:41,379 --> 00:27:43,689 And it was specifically only with Robyn. 639 00:27:43,862 --> 00:27:46,275 -Nobody else knew. -Correct. 640 00:27:46,275 --> 00:27:49,793 So that's why you said earlier that you were feeling betrayed. 641 00:27:49,965 --> 00:27:53,275 There was a huge lack of trust there because my private 642 00:27:53,275 --> 00:27:56,551 conversations that I was having with Robyn, 643 00:27:56,724 --> 00:27:59,103 and I don't -- I don't believe 644 00:27:59,275 --> 00:28:01,551 that she did it intentionally to hurt me. 645 00:28:01,724 --> 00:28:04,758 I think she did it to try to help the situation, 646 00:28:04,931 --> 00:28:08,034 but she kept making it worse and kept making it worse, 647 00:28:08,206 --> 00:28:12,172 um, and by -- by sharing the information. 648 00:28:12,344 --> 00:28:15,000 And I even kept saying to her, "Don't -- don't talk. 649 00:28:16,034 --> 00:28:17,965 Don't talk." 650 00:28:18,103 --> 00:28:20,379 When she was talking, who was she talking to? 651 00:28:20,551 --> 00:28:22,793 A friend that she had at the time 652 00:28:22,793 --> 00:28:25,448 that was in communication with the -- with the catfisher. 653 00:28:25,620 --> 00:28:26,896 And this is so weird. Why are we still freaking 654 00:28:26,896 --> 00:28:28,344 talking about this? -Well, what did she say -- 655 00:28:28,517 --> 00:28:29,862 It's, like, 10 years old. 656 00:28:29,862 --> 00:28:31,896 No, but what did she say when you continued to talk about it? 657 00:28:33,172 --> 00:28:34,862 I would ask her not to, 658 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,482 and she's like, "I'm trying to help." 659 00:28:36,482 --> 00:28:39,000 I'm like, "But you're not helping. 660 00:28:39,172 --> 00:28:41,137 It's not helping. Just stop talking." 661 00:28:42,172 --> 00:28:46,172 Meri did say that things would get back to other people that 662 00:28:46,172 --> 00:28:48,689 she was sharing with Robyn. 663 00:28:48,862 --> 00:28:52,793 Oh, this was probably all divorce stuff 664 00:28:52,793 --> 00:28:55,172 with, oh yeah, sure. 665 00:28:55,172 --> 00:28:57,275 Sure, the whole catfishing thing. 666 00:28:57,448 --> 00:28:59,344 Yeah, Meri had a relationship with a man 667 00:28:59,517 --> 00:29:03,758 that was inappropriate. I'm sorry, that's 10 years old. 668 00:29:03,931 --> 00:29:06,034 If Meri's bringing that up here, 669 00:29:06,206 --> 00:29:07,896 I had the right to know. 670 00:29:07,896 --> 00:29:12,172 But this is why they feel that they can't be friends 671 00:29:12,172 --> 00:29:13,275 or trust Robyn. 672 00:29:13,448 --> 00:29:15,034 If your wife's having an affair 673 00:29:15,206 --> 00:29:16,793 and your other wife tells you, 674 00:29:17,896 --> 00:29:20,379 that's my business, no matter what! 675 00:29:30,793 --> 00:29:34,103 You can't blame Robyn for not telling me about an affair. 676 00:29:34,275 --> 00:29:37,172 That is so hypocritical. 677 00:29:37,172 --> 00:29:40,793 Meri was being a hypocrite during that entire thing, 678 00:29:40,965 --> 00:29:44,344 and we circled the wagons to protect her, OK? 679 00:29:44,517 --> 00:29:47,275 And -- and it would have all worked out fine 680 00:29:47,448 --> 00:29:50,655 if Meri and I would have had a good relationship, 681 00:29:50,827 --> 00:29:52,965 because it was all forgivable. 682 00:29:53,103 --> 00:29:55,379 But if your wife is having an affair 683 00:29:55,379 --> 00:29:57,586 and your other wife knows it, 684 00:29:57,586 --> 00:30:01,551 I was being kicked out of the house. 685 00:30:01,724 --> 00:30:03,586 It's like, don't put that on Robyn. 686 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,689 That's totally hypocritical. 687 00:30:08,862 --> 00:30:11,689 That's not some action of Robyn's where she was 688 00:30:11,862 --> 00:30:13,068 causing problems. 689 00:30:13,068 --> 00:30:15,862 Robyn has been the moral compass in this entire family 690 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,379 since she entered it. 691 00:30:21,137 --> 00:30:22,379 Let's move on to a happier place, 692 00:30:22,379 --> 00:30:24,275 back to the BFF spot. 693 00:30:24,275 --> 00:30:26,655 Back to the best friends who have been helping each 694 00:30:26,827 --> 00:30:28,103 other this past year, especially you, 695 00:30:28,275 --> 00:30:29,689 helping her with dating. 696 00:30:30,586 --> 00:30:34,793 -Trying to figure out what fits you, the new Meri. -Yep, yep, yep. 697 00:30:34,793 --> 00:30:38,000 You've met this guy named Ron, and sparks started to fly, 698 00:30:38,137 --> 00:30:39,551 and things started to feel good. 699 00:30:40,482 --> 00:30:43,655 So let's take a look at you and your journey 700 00:30:43,827 --> 00:30:47,000 of finding new love, Meri. -OK, OK. 701 00:30:48,137 --> 00:30:49,965 I think you're -- you're very witty, you're very funny. 702 00:30:50,103 --> 00:30:51,793 I've kind of learned that today. 703 00:30:51,793 --> 00:30:53,275 -Yeah? -So it's good to -- yeah. 704 00:30:53,275 --> 00:30:54,482 -It's good to spend time. -Just today? 705 00:30:55,689 --> 00:30:58,482 -I learned it to a new level today. -[laughing] 706 00:30:58,655 --> 00:31:00,000 So... 707 00:31:00,206 --> 00:31:01,241 -I hope that's not a bad thing. -But no. 708 00:31:01,413 --> 00:31:02,689 No, not a bad thing. No, it's good to -- 709 00:31:02,689 --> 00:31:04,689 this is why you spend time with someone. 710 00:31:04,689 --> 00:31:07,344 -Right -- right. -Because you learn a lot and you get to know them 711 00:31:07,517 --> 00:31:11,103 and, you know, little things that you never knew. -Right -- right. 712 00:31:11,275 --> 00:31:13,275 [Meri] Ron and I definitely have a connection. 713 00:31:13,448 --> 00:31:17,172 We both have shared with each other that, yeah, 714 00:31:17,172 --> 00:31:19,448 there's -- there's a reason 715 00:31:19,620 --> 00:31:21,482 why we're in each other's lives. 716 00:31:21,482 --> 00:31:24,896 What that reason is, you know, remains to be seen. 717 00:31:25,034 --> 00:31:27,586 I am so happy right now, Ron. 718 00:31:27,758 --> 00:31:28,758 I love that. 719 00:31:30,344 --> 00:31:32,000 Yeah. 720 00:31:32,172 --> 00:31:33,241 I'm happy too. 721 00:31:33,413 --> 00:31:34,379 This is a good place to be. 722 00:31:35,793 --> 00:31:39,586 -Meri, you look so happy. -I am happy. 723 00:31:39,758 --> 00:31:40,793 No, tell me about Ron. 724 00:31:40,965 --> 00:31:43,689 You look happy, like, really happy. 725 00:31:43,689 --> 00:31:46,586 -And comfortable. -Ron is a really cool guy. Very comfortable. 726 00:31:46,758 --> 00:31:49,172 I'm very comfortable hanging out with him. 727 00:31:49,344 --> 00:31:50,482 Do you like him like him? 728 00:31:51,586 --> 00:31:53,586 You know what? Ron and I are 729 00:31:53,758 --> 00:31:56,758 building this really cool friendship. 730 00:31:56,931 --> 00:31:58,896 -OK. -Yeah, it's really cool. 731 00:31:59,034 --> 00:32:02,103 Like, I really love that I can 732 00:32:02,275 --> 00:32:04,965 be myself around him. 733 00:32:05,103 --> 00:32:08,344 Like, I literally can just be myself around him. 734 00:32:08,517 --> 00:32:10,689 -Do you like Ron? -I do like Ron. 735 00:32:10,862 --> 00:32:12,655 He's a really nice person. 736 00:32:13,689 --> 00:32:18,275 Jenn, do you hope Ron becomes more than a friend for Meri? 737 00:32:18,448 --> 00:32:20,793 If that's what Ron and Meri want, then yes. 738 00:32:20,793 --> 00:32:24,034 Meri, is that what you want? 739 00:32:24,206 --> 00:32:25,758 I mean, have you looked at him? 740 00:32:25,931 --> 00:32:27,000 [laughing] 741 00:32:27,137 --> 00:32:28,379 He's cute. 742 00:32:28,379 --> 00:32:30,896 You know, you're flirting, you're loose. 743 00:32:31,034 --> 00:32:33,275 -That means that you're like -- -I'm comfortable with him. 744 00:32:33,275 --> 00:32:34,896 -I'm very comfortable with him. -OK. 745 00:32:34,896 --> 00:32:36,000 And I enjoy spending time with him. 746 00:32:36,137 --> 00:32:37,965 Comfortable meaning you've held hands, you've kissed? 747 00:32:38,103 --> 00:32:39,689 Have you kissed? Can I ask that? 748 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,448 -You can ask, sure. -Will you answer? 749 00:32:43,620 --> 00:32:44,655 No. 750 00:32:46,275 --> 00:32:47,758 I won't. 751 00:32:47,931 --> 00:32:49,034 So when's your next date with Ron? 752 00:32:51,137 --> 00:32:52,586 Ron and I don't date. 753 00:32:54,379 --> 00:32:57,137 Ron and I hang out and enjoy each other's company. 754 00:32:57,310 --> 00:32:58,310 OK, call it what you want. 755 00:32:58,310 --> 00:33:00,758 -When's your next "hangout," Meri? -OK. 756 00:33:00,931 --> 00:33:04,758 Meri, when are you "hanging out" with your "friend" Ron? 757 00:33:06,034 --> 00:33:07,896 Does that make you feel better? 758 00:33:08,896 --> 00:33:11,172 I'm gonna have to ask Ron how he feels about 759 00:33:11,344 --> 00:33:13,896 this conversation. -Yeah, yeah. 760 00:33:13,896 --> 00:33:15,758 -That was so cute. -That was cute. 761 00:33:15,931 --> 00:33:17,586 -Yeah! -Oh, I mean, there's more. 762 00:33:17,586 --> 00:33:19,379 I hope that they just don't end friends. 763 00:33:19,551 --> 00:33:20,896 I hope that...that was so cute. 764 00:33:21,034 --> 00:33:22,103 There was definitely chemistry. That was so cute. 765 00:33:22,275 --> 00:33:24,068 You don't sit there and jump like you did. 766 00:33:24,241 --> 00:33:26,482 Stop it, David. 767 00:33:26,655 --> 00:33:29,103 Yeah, you guys didn't have -- they want to take it slow. 768 00:33:29,275 --> 00:33:31,068 Like, you know, slow, be friends, 769 00:33:31,241 --> 00:33:33,551 get to know each other. -I used to thought I was slow. 770 00:33:33,724 --> 00:33:35,137 -You guys were not slow. -You were slow? 771 00:33:35,310 --> 00:33:37,103 No, we were not slow. 772 00:33:37,275 --> 00:33:38,896 So what do you think about Meri dating? 773 00:33:38,896 --> 00:33:40,586 -It looked like a lot of fun. -Yeah. 774 00:33:40,758 --> 00:33:42,896 -There's some good energy there. -[Sukanya] Yeah? 775 00:33:42,896 --> 00:33:44,172 Yeah, it looked great. 776 00:33:44,172 --> 00:33:47,172 It's this exciting experience when you first meet people. 777 00:33:47,172 --> 00:33:49,000 I mean, it's like, 778 00:33:49,137 --> 00:33:51,379 it's just really cute. -That's lovely. 779 00:33:51,551 --> 00:33:54,689 And whether they work or not, it's like there's this 780 00:33:54,862 --> 00:33:57,655 excitement that you kind of get watching it. 781 00:33:57,827 --> 00:34:00,275 I haven't seen a lot of that in a long time, 782 00:34:00,275 --> 00:34:03,689 you know what I mean? It's so it's fun to -- 783 00:34:03,689 --> 00:34:06,793 it's like seeing her in a happy element. 784 00:34:06,793 --> 00:34:09,172 -It's great. -Yeah -- when was the last time you saw her like that? 785 00:34:09,172 --> 00:34:10,965 Was it like that when you first met? 786 00:34:11,103 --> 00:34:13,551 Like, literally, OK, I've never seen this, 787 00:34:13,724 --> 00:34:17,862 but right after my apology, Meri and I sat and started 788 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,688 chatting about things, and it was fun. 789 00:34:22,862 --> 00:34:24,482 So there's, yeah. 790 00:34:24,482 --> 00:34:26,862 -There's always a door that's open there. -Oh, so long -- 791 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,688 but we can get on the phone and we, if Meri and I, 792 00:34:30,862 --> 00:34:34,482 even in that last chat we had, we caught ourselves escalating 793 00:34:34,655 --> 00:34:36,447 to triggers, trigger, trigger, and there's like, 794 00:34:36,620 --> 00:34:38,344 wait, wait, wait, wait. Meri, I'm so sorry. 795 00:34:38,516 --> 00:34:40,757 -Yeah, we got -- -I didn't, I didn't mean to, 796 00:34:40,931 --> 00:34:42,793 and she's like, "Oh, we caught ourselves." 797 00:34:42,965 --> 00:34:44,585 It's like, "OK, we got to stop this." 798 00:34:44,585 --> 00:34:46,793 -We got -- -If you can acknowledge that 799 00:34:46,793 --> 00:34:49,447 that does happen, maybe you can stop yourself and leave 800 00:34:49,620 --> 00:34:51,275 the door open to a possible friendship. 801 00:34:52,379 --> 00:34:53,482 Maybe. 802 00:34:58,034 --> 00:35:02,482 When you're in a space where there's so much trust has been 803 00:35:02,655 --> 00:35:06,379 harmed, you wanna, you wanna trust. 804 00:35:06,551 --> 00:35:09,068 You wanna be friends, if you can. 805 00:35:09,241 --> 00:35:11,862 There's -- there's reasons why you should be, 806 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,241 but it doesn't take much 807 00:35:15,413 --> 00:35:18,344 to just suddenly feel betrayed 808 00:35:18,517 --> 00:35:19,724 over again. 809 00:35:19,724 --> 00:35:24,034 Being friendly is vital for our lives and our children, 810 00:35:24,206 --> 00:35:27,379 but friendship is based on trust. 811 00:35:27,551 --> 00:35:30,896 And -- and I know that what will happen, I don't know, 812 00:35:30,896 --> 00:35:33,068 what'd you say, Ron? -Mm-hmm, his name is Ron. 813 00:35:33,241 --> 00:35:34,413 Meri and Ron, if they continue on, 814 00:35:34,413 --> 00:35:39,000 they will build a relationship on trust, you know? 815 00:35:39,172 --> 00:35:42,551 But -- but we're past that. [stammers] 816 00:35:42,724 --> 00:35:47,448 Trust, once murdered, cannot be resurrected, usually. 817 00:35:47,620 --> 00:35:49,551 If you can't be friends, can you get to a place where 818 00:35:49,724 --> 00:35:50,793 you can at least be friendly? 819 00:35:50,793 --> 00:35:53,103 Oh no, we're definitely friendly. 820 00:35:53,275 --> 00:35:54,655 We are definitely friendly. 821 00:35:55,586 --> 00:35:56,896 Do you think there will be a time where 822 00:35:56,896 --> 00:36:00,586 Kody and his ex-wives can actually 823 00:36:00,586 --> 00:36:03,379 be friends? -I don't know. I don't know. 824 00:36:03,551 --> 00:36:06,000 I think it would be really cool. 825 00:36:06,172 --> 00:36:11,586 And I mean, I've said it to him from the beginning of 826 00:36:11,586 --> 00:36:14,862 our divorce, you know, the beginning of the end, 827 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:16,896 you know, I've said it to him, "Let's just be kind, 828 00:36:16,896 --> 00:36:18,448 let's not do this." 829 00:36:18,620 --> 00:36:22,896 And if he and Robyn want to have a relationship 830 00:36:22,896 --> 00:36:26,689 with me and want to like move forward from here on out 831 00:36:26,689 --> 00:36:29,689 and be kind, I would be open to it. 832 00:36:29,689 --> 00:36:32,172 So is this an invitation to them, right now, 833 00:36:32,344 --> 00:36:33,862 that you're giving? -Yeah. 834 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:35,448 Absolutely, it's an invitation. 835 00:36:35,620 --> 00:36:39,103 I've had that invitation open from day one. 836 00:36:40,275 --> 00:36:41,379 From day one. 837 00:36:44,379 --> 00:36:46,586 Betrayal is an illusion. 838 00:36:46,758 --> 00:36:49,586 And when I have sorted this out long enough, 839 00:36:49,586 --> 00:36:53,965 this idea that -- the illusion of betrayal in divorce, 840 00:36:54,103 --> 00:36:57,482 or the illusion of betrayal in relationships, 841 00:36:57,482 --> 00:37:01,586 maybe I'll be OK, but I'm -- I am not there yet. 842 00:37:02,689 --> 00:37:04,241 Going back to the apologies, 843 00:37:05,275 --> 00:37:06,896 would it have been safe for them 844 00:37:08,068 --> 00:37:11,862 to come to you and talk about 845 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,344 why they wanted to leave? 846 00:37:19,482 --> 00:37:21,689 Coming up... 847 00:37:21,689 --> 00:37:24,482 Do you feel that more people in the family need to step up 848 00:37:24,655 --> 00:37:26,482 and do some apologizing? 849 00:37:26,655 --> 00:37:27,931 No. 850 00:37:27,931 --> 00:37:31,000 Like, I feel like Kody was probably the one who really... 851 00:37:31,172 --> 00:37:32,172 Kody was the head of the family. 852 00:37:32,344 --> 00:37:34,275 I think he could have done a lot better job. 853 00:37:35,344 --> 00:37:36,896 Do you feel like there's anything that you need 854 00:37:37,034 --> 00:37:38,172 to apologize for? 855 00:37:38,172 --> 00:37:42,137 Apologize to either Kody, Janelle, Meri, 856 00:37:43,344 --> 00:37:44,448 or even Robyn? 857 00:37:53,448 --> 00:37:55,172 Going back to the apologies, 858 00:37:55,344 --> 00:37:57,896 would it have been safe for them 859 00:37:58,034 --> 00:38:02,034 to come to you and talk about 860 00:38:02,206 --> 00:38:04,724 why they wanted to leave? 861 00:38:07,172 --> 00:38:09,275 I mean, no, at the time it probably wouldn't have, 862 00:38:09,448 --> 00:38:11,862 because, um... 863 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,586 I -- I didn't know I was doing something wrong. 864 00:38:14,758 --> 00:38:16,482 I didn't know I felt contemptuous. 865 00:38:16,482 --> 00:38:17,862 I didn't know I was angry. 866 00:38:20,172 --> 00:38:23,482 Even though I probably knew I just wasn't allowing myself 867 00:38:23,482 --> 00:38:25,344 to be conscious of it. 868 00:38:25,517 --> 00:38:27,689 Does it matter if they accepted the apology or not? 869 00:38:28,689 --> 00:38:31,379 It makes me feel better if they do accept it. 870 00:38:31,379 --> 00:38:34,965 But if they don't accept it, I'll just say it again. 871 00:38:35,103 --> 00:38:36,965 After all this, do you accept Kody's apology 872 00:38:37,103 --> 00:38:39,000 and how he reached out to you? 873 00:38:39,137 --> 00:38:41,241 Look, I thought it was very nice. 874 00:38:41,413 --> 00:38:42,896 I felt sincerity from it. 875 00:38:43,034 --> 00:38:44,689 And there were some things, like especially about 876 00:38:44,689 --> 00:38:48,000 the early years, that were very healing for me to -- to hear. 877 00:38:48,137 --> 00:38:49,965 So you're happy that Kody made this first step? 878 00:38:50,896 --> 00:38:54,241 Yeah, I mean, I think that was great. 879 00:38:54,413 --> 00:38:57,344 Maybe there will be more peace among all the adults. 880 00:38:57,517 --> 00:39:00,137 I feel like that there probably was some sort of karmic 881 00:39:01,034 --> 00:39:03,758 thing that got put to bed. -Mm-hmm. 882 00:39:04,758 --> 00:39:07,551 Do you feel that more people in the family need to step up 883 00:39:07,724 --> 00:39:09,551 and do some apologizing? 884 00:39:09,724 --> 00:39:11,000 No. 885 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,034 Like, I feel like Kody was probably the one who really... 886 00:39:14,206 --> 00:39:15,586 Kody was the head of the family. 887 00:39:15,586 --> 00:39:17,896 I think he could have done a lot better job. 888 00:39:18,034 --> 00:39:20,137 Does anyone think they deserve an apology? 889 00:39:21,482 --> 00:39:23,586 I mean, I guess if they do and they feel like I need 890 00:39:23,586 --> 00:39:26,172 to give them an apology, if they asked me, I think 891 00:39:26,344 --> 00:39:27,551 we could consider it. 892 00:39:29,068 --> 00:39:32,275 Because I definitely don't want to have, 893 00:39:32,448 --> 00:39:35,137 you know, somebody out there thinking I've wronged them. 894 00:39:35,310 --> 00:39:36,482 [Sukanya] Yeah. 895 00:39:36,655 --> 00:39:38,482 -I love that he did it. -OK. 896 00:39:38,655 --> 00:39:40,000 I do. I love that he did it. 897 00:39:40,137 --> 00:39:43,689 If that's something that is gonna help him as he moves 898 00:39:43,862 --> 00:39:45,862 forward in his life, I love that he did it. 899 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,896 -And you forgive him for that time in Vegas... -Yeah. 900 00:39:49,034 --> 00:39:50,655 ...of him not being there? You forgive him? 901 00:39:50,827 --> 00:39:53,344 Yeah, yeah, because here's the thing, Suki. 902 00:39:53,517 --> 00:39:55,000 -I have a really good life. -[Sukanya] Yeah. 903 00:39:55,137 --> 00:39:57,034 I'm really happy with where I am. 904 00:39:57,206 --> 00:39:59,896 And all those moments led 905 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,758 to who I am, right? So I don't, I don't regret it. 906 00:40:04,931 --> 00:40:07,137 Does he owe you more apologies? 907 00:40:07,310 --> 00:40:08,275 No. 908 00:40:08,275 --> 00:40:10,000 [Sukanya] No? 909 00:40:10,137 --> 00:40:11,551 No. I think he did -- 910 00:40:11,724 --> 00:40:16,172 I think he did the apologies that he felt were necessary, 911 00:40:16,172 --> 00:40:18,896 and he does not owe me anything. 912 00:40:18,896 --> 00:40:22,793 Is there anything that you need to apologize for? 913 00:40:22,793 --> 00:40:26,172 I mean, there's -- there's a lot of stuff that we have all done 914 00:40:26,344 --> 00:40:29,103 to each other through the years, and, you know, 915 00:40:29,275 --> 00:40:31,551 and I think that... 916 00:40:31,724 --> 00:40:33,689 there's always something to apologize for. 917 00:40:33,862 --> 00:40:38,689 I think there's always something to ask forgiveness for. 918 00:40:38,689 --> 00:40:41,482 Do you feel like there's anything that you need to apologize for? 919 00:40:41,482 --> 00:40:45,448 -To Kody? -Apologize to either Kody, Janelle, Meri, 920 00:40:46,689 --> 00:40:47,862 or even Robyn? 921 00:40:53,172 --> 00:40:56,172 I'm sure there'd be things that, I don't know. 922 00:40:56,344 --> 00:40:59,275 I don't know. I've changed so much. 923 00:40:59,275 --> 00:41:01,655 -I'm a different person now. I don't know. -Mm-hmm. 924 00:41:03,068 --> 00:41:05,758 I don't think so. I'm just moving on. 925 00:41:06,689 --> 00:41:08,172 I hope they all move on too. 926 00:41:08,172 --> 00:41:09,896 I think that we just need to move on. 927 00:41:09,896 --> 00:41:11,586 If we keep on dwelling in the past 928 00:41:11,586 --> 00:41:13,241 and focusing on the past 929 00:41:13,413 --> 00:41:15,000 and needing to go back in the past 930 00:41:15,137 --> 00:41:20,137 to fix the past, I -- just let it go and move on. 931 00:41:20,310 --> 00:41:23,482 Let's just think what we're gonna do to build from here 932 00:41:23,655 --> 00:41:27,689 and realize that we all said and did things that, 933 00:41:27,862 --> 00:41:31,103 you know, let's just leave it as it is. 934 00:41:31,275 --> 00:41:33,896 'Cause you can't fix it. You can't. 935 00:41:35,034 --> 00:41:37,068 Do you think he needs to apologize for anything else? 936 00:41:37,241 --> 00:41:39,689 Or do you think any of the other wives 937 00:41:39,862 --> 00:41:41,586 need to apologize to Kody? 938 00:41:43,172 --> 00:41:44,586 It's really not my place to say. 939 00:41:44,586 --> 00:41:47,482 That's their own personal journey. 940 00:41:47,482 --> 00:41:49,482 And to sit there and say, "I think they need..." 941 00:41:49,655 --> 00:41:51,068 That's just really not my business. 942 00:41:51,241 --> 00:41:53,586 Do you think anyone owes you an apology? 943 00:41:53,586 --> 00:41:57,379 Um, again, that's their own personal journey. 944 00:41:57,551 --> 00:42:00,137 Would you like to apologize to anybody? 945 00:42:00,310 --> 00:42:04,137 I...don't think I -- I think I'm fine. 946 00:42:04,310 --> 00:42:05,758 -[Sukanya] Yeah. -Yeah. 947 00:42:05,931 --> 00:42:08,586 Are there any apologies that could possibly set you free? 948 00:42:08,586 --> 00:42:10,689 I don't really look at it that same way. 949 00:42:10,862 --> 00:42:15,000 My forgiveness of someone else is my job. 950 00:42:15,172 --> 00:42:17,241 You know, forgiveness is a very personal 951 00:42:17,413 --> 00:42:19,000 experience and journey. 952 00:42:19,172 --> 00:42:20,586 It's not so much about the other person, 953 00:42:20,586 --> 00:42:21,896 it's about yourself. 954 00:42:21,896 --> 00:42:23,241 And I think that's the perfect way where we can 955 00:42:23,413 --> 00:42:24,793 end the conversation today. -Yeah. 956 00:42:24,965 --> 00:42:26,793 -Thank you so much. -Mm-hmm. 957 00:42:26,965 --> 00:42:30,482 I would like, honestly, genuinely, I'd like 958 00:42:30,482 --> 00:42:34,000 to be in a place where I could have conversations with each 959 00:42:34,172 --> 00:42:38,275 of the four of them and be good and, like, I don't have to 960 00:42:38,448 --> 00:42:40,758 trust them with my life, you know, I don't, it doesn't 961 00:42:40,931 --> 00:42:45,379 have to be that, but to be in a place where it's just 962 00:42:45,551 --> 00:42:48,068 comfortable and we can let the past go, 963 00:42:48,241 --> 00:42:50,241 because we're never gonna see eye to eye on it. 964 00:42:50,413 --> 00:42:53,379 We're never gonna, like, I'm never gonna understand 965 00:42:53,379 --> 00:42:56,758 their -- their brains and how they look at something. 966 00:42:56,931 --> 00:42:58,482 I'm not in their brains. I don't know. 967 00:42:58,655 --> 00:43:00,689 I will never understand it. You know? 968 00:43:00,862 --> 00:43:04,965 So, I'd be open to it, but it would definitely take 969 00:43:05,103 --> 00:43:06,344 some conversation. 970 00:43:06,517 --> 00:43:08,896 So my last question to you is, 971 00:43:09,034 --> 00:43:11,103 do you feel like you've been heard 972 00:43:11,275 --> 00:43:13,379 and that you had a voice here? 973 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,000 Here? Absolutely. 974 00:43:17,137 --> 00:43:21,482 I feel like I have definitely had a voice, and thank you for 975 00:43:21,482 --> 00:43:24,275 letting me use it. I appreciate that. 976 00:43:26,034 --> 00:43:30,034 I don't believe the break is clean as I wanted it 977 00:43:30,206 --> 00:43:31,620 when I was apologizing, 978 00:43:33,379 --> 00:43:36,586 but I don't know. I just think it's time for all of us to move on 979 00:43:36,758 --> 00:43:38,896 with all my heart, 980 00:43:38,896 --> 00:43:42,586 in hopes of Meri, Janelle, and Christine having 981 00:43:42,586 --> 00:43:43,724 a wonderful life. 982 00:43:44,655 --> 00:43:48,103 And if -- if there's still something tied up in there, 983 00:43:49,068 --> 00:43:50,448 if there's still a hurt, 984 00:43:51,862 --> 00:43:53,965 I would want them to call me up and say, 985 00:43:54,103 --> 00:43:57,448 "Hey, I was hurt by this once. Could you explain it to me?" 986 00:43:57,620 --> 00:44:00,137 -And I can take the time to explain it. [Sukanya] Mm. 987 00:44:00,310 --> 00:44:02,275 Yeah, I want all the hurt to end. 988 00:44:02,448 --> 00:44:05,275 I want everybody to move on. 989 00:44:05,448 --> 00:44:10,689 I want everybody to feel free and move on with forgiveness. 990 00:44:12,137 --> 00:44:14,551 Kody, thank you so much for this incredible conversation. 991 00:44:14,724 --> 00:44:16,482 I feel like, you know, we were able to get rid of some 992 00:44:16,655 --> 00:44:19,379 of the contradictions, clear up a lot of things. 993 00:44:19,551 --> 00:44:21,000 Are you sure? 994 00:44:21,172 --> 00:44:23,068 You know, with the Brown family, I never know, 995 00:44:23,241 --> 00:44:25,482 but I feel like I got some clarity and I hope 996 00:44:25,482 --> 00:44:27,758 everybody else did too. -Yeah. 997 00:44:27,931 --> 00:44:30,689 And all I do is wish you the best, you and your family. 998 00:44:30,689 --> 00:44:32,000 -So thank you for... -Thank you so much. 999 00:44:32,172 --> 00:44:33,482 ...your candid conversation. 1000 00:44:34,689 --> 00:44:35,793 [Kody] You're welcome.