PREVIOUSLY ON "SISTER WIVES..."
YOU'VE MADE IT PERFECTLY CLEAR
YOU DON'T WANT TO DO THIS ONE HOME THING.
WHY NOT, CHRISTINE?
NO PRIVACY FOR YOU.
I MEAN, THE IDEA THAT POLYGAMIST FAMILIES
SHOULD LIVE IN ONE HOUSE
TO GET ALL OF YOUR BLESSINGS IN HEAVEN
IS RIDICULOUS.
MERI SEEMS SORT OF ON THE FENCE.
ROBYN SEEMS SORT OF INQUISITIVE,
AND JANELLE SEEMS SORT OF POSITIVE ON IT,
BUT I THINK CHRISTINE IS SO DOWN ON THIS
THAT IT'S INFECTING EVERYBODY.
I THINK LIFE'S GOTTEN REALLY EASY FOR US,
AND WE ALL GO HOME TO OUR LITTLE HOUSES
AND WE COMPLAIN ABOUT SOMEBODY.
WE ALL HAVE TO DECIDE WHAT WE REALLY WANT.
DO YOU WANT TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP
WITH YOUR SISTER WIFE?
MAYBE.
AND THIS WOULD BE HEARTBREAKING.
THERE ARE SOME OF US WHO ARE LIKE, "LOOK,
I DON'T WANT IT ANYMORE."
I'M REALLY SORRY I STILL GET JEALOUS.
I STILL GET SUPER JEALOUS,
AND I'M REALLY, REALLY, REALLY SORRY.
IT'S HARD TO FIND THAT BALANCE OF BEING STRONG
AND NOT BEING A BITCH.
I DON'T KNOW WHY CHRISTINE IS SAYING THIS. THAT'S SCARY.
--Captions by VITAC-- www.vitac.com
CAPTIONS PAID FOR BY DISCOVERY COMMUNICATIONS
SO TODAY, I'M MEETING WITH MY WIVES AT MERI'S HOUSE
SO WE CAN TALK ABOUT A TRIP WE WANT TO TAKE TO UTAH.
WE'RE GOING TO BE VISITING WITH ANOTHER PLURAL FAMILY.
THE DARGER FAMILY -- WE'VE KNOWN THEM FOR YEARS.
THEY'VE BEEN VERY POLITICALLY ACTIVE FOR THE CAUSE
OF DECRIMINALIZING PLURAL MARRIAGE IN UTAH.
COME IN.
HEY. HEY, GUYS.
SO WE JUST RECENTLY WENT TO LUNCH
AND WE HAD A PRETTY INTENSE CONVERSATION
ABOUT WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE WITH OUR RELATIONSHIPS,
AND I HAVEN'T HEARD A PEEP.
DO THEY CARE? WERE THEY LISTENING?
MAYBE THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY?
I DON'T KNOW. I HOPE THEY'RE THINKING ABOUT IT.
I HOPE THEY'RE PROCESSING IT.
UM, OK, SO SALT LAKE IS 36 DEGREES TOMORROW.
WHOA.
WE'VE HAD SUCH NICE WEATHER HERE.
-WE'RE GONNA BE IN THE CAR. YEAH.
SO WHEN WE FIRST WENT PUBLIC, WITHIN JUST DAYS OF IT
REALLY BEING ANNOUNCED,
THE POLICE IN UTAH STARTED TO INVESTIGATE US
BECAUSE PLURAL MARRIAGE IS A FELONY IN UTAH.
IT WAS PUNISHABLE UP TO FIVE YEARS PER COUNT.
SO THAT KIND OF LED TO THIS WHOLE THING WHERE WE WERE
VERY AFRAID FOR OUR SAFETY. WE WERE VERY AFRAID
THAT THEY WERE GOING TO COME AND ARREST US.
HURRY! HURRY, HURRY, HURRY!
NO!
SO WE LEFT THE STATE KIND OF IN THE DARK OF NIGHT.
WE FELT LIKE WE'D BEEN EXILED.
SO ONCE WE LANDED IN LAS VEGAS AND THINGS HAD SETTLED,
WE SUED THE STATE OF UTAH,
BASICALLY SAYING, "LOOK, THIS LAW IS UNFAIR." WE WON.
SO, FOR A YEAR, WHAT SEEMS LIKE JUST A FEW MINUTES,
BUT IT WAS FOR A YEAR, WE WERE DECRIMINALIZED.
WE'RE NO LONGER FELONS.
SO, THE STATE OF UTAH APPEALED OUR LAWSUIT THAT WE HAD WON.
THEY OVERTURNED IT
AND THEN THEY DOUBLED DOWN WITH A NEW LAW, H.B.99.
AND SO IT MADE IT A WORSE FELONY FOR POLYGAMISTS IN UTAH.
SO, ARE WE GOING TO DRIVE TOGETHER?
THAT'S THE BIG QUESTION I WONDERED.
YEAH, I THINK WE SHOULD DRIVE TOGETHER.
BUT LET'S TALK TO -- LET'S GET CHRISTINE IN ON IT, THOUGH.
SO, THIS YEAR THERE WAS A BILL
INTRODUCED INTO THE UTAH SENATE, S.B.102.
BASICALLY, WHAT IT WAS GOING TO DO WAS KIND OF REVISE THAT LAW
THAT WAS PASSED A FEW YEARS AGO,
BASICALLY MAKES IT SO THAT PEOPLE LIKE OUR FAMILY
WHO LIVE A LAW-ABIDING LIFE,
JUST CHOOSE FOR RELIGIOUS PURPOSES TO COHABITATE,
WE'RE NO LONGER FELONS. IT'S AMAZING.
HI. SO, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
WHETHER WE DRIVE TOGETHER OR NOT.
CHRISTINE'S WORKING IN PHOENIX,
SO ONCE IN A WHILE WE JUST HAVE TO.
DO KIND OF CONFERENCE CALLING,
SO I HAVE TO COME BACK VERY QUICKLY
BECAUSE I'VE GOT WORK I'VE GOT TO DO,
SO I'LL BE DRIVING BACK IN THE EVENING.
I THINK THE KODY OVER COMPLICATES EVERYTHING.
AND I THINK US GOING TO UTAH ON A FRICKING SPONTANEOUS ROAD TRIP
FOR A CONVERSATION SEEMS RIDICULOUS TO ME.
I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT TO TALK ABOUT WITH JOE,
AND I'VE GOT TO GIVE IT ENOUGH TIME.
I WANT TO GO TO UTAH AND SEE THE DARGER FAMILY IN PERSON.
I DON'T WANT TO DO SOME KIND OF VIDEO CONFERENCING
OR SOMETHING WITH THEM. WHY WOULD WE DO THAT?
I WANT TO GO SEE THEM. THEY'RE OUR FRIENDS.
WE'RE LONELY FOR OTHER POLYGAMIST FAMILY.
I WAS WATCHING THE NEWS TODAY, AND THE DEBATE IS PRETTY LIVELY.
SO, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE REALLY TRYING TO MAKE THE POINT
THAT THEY'RE STILL KEEPING FRAUD AND CHILD MARRIAGE
AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF ILLEGAL.
AND THEY'RE TRYING TO SEPARATE
THOSE WHO ARE LIVING POLYGAMY AS CONSENTING ADULTS.
THE LAW CHANGING DOESN'T REALLY AFFECT ME, REALLY,
BECAUSE I'M NOT THERE IN UTAH. WE'RE NOT LIVING IN UTAH.
WHAT HAPPENS WITH IT WILL AFFECT MY FAMILY
BECAUSE THEY ARE LIVING PLURAL MARRIAGE,
AND THIS COULD BE A HUGE BLESSING FOR THEM.
NOT TO BE KIND OF CONDESCENDING ABOUT IT.
BUT THAT'S VERY SOPHOMORIC ATTITUDE THAT THEY HAVE.
I'M SORT OF BLOWN AWAY OF HOW --
IT'S LONG=ESTABLISHED PREJUDICE, HONEY.
IT'S MORE THAN THAT.
IT'S JUST LIKE LEAVE CONSENTING ADULTS ALONE.
IT'S JUST NOT -- LEGISLATING BEDROOMS, SEXUALITY.
WHAT I DO IN MY BEDROOM WITH ANOTHER CONSENTING ADULT
IS NOBODY ELSE'S BUSINESS.
AND, SO, WHY DO THEY THINK THAT THEY CAN LEGISLATE IT?
IT'S NAIVE.
WELL, YEAH, BUT IT'S NOT USUALLY CONSENTING ADULTS
THAT ARE VICTIMS IN THESE SITUATIONS.
IT'S LIKE IF YOU'VE GOT A FAMILY AND YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW,
WITH CHILD BRIDES AND STUFF LIKE THAT,
THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT. AND THAT'S REAL.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING THEY SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT.
I THINK THE LAWMAKERS THINK THAT BY DECRIMINALIZING THIS LAW
THAT IT WILL MAKE IT SO THAT IT'S A FREE FOR ALL
AND THERE WILL BE MORE ABUSE THAT WILL HAPPEN.
AND WHAT THEY'RE NOT REALIZING IS THAT CURRENT LAW IS SO STRICT
THAT IT'S MAKING THEM SO AFRAID TO COME OUT.
AND LIKE A MOM, SHE'S GOT A DAUGHTER THAT'S GETTING ABUSED,
AND SHE IS SO AFRAID OF GOING TO THE POLICE
BECAUSE SHE'S AFRAID THEY'RE GOING TO TEAR APART HER FAMILY
AND TAKE HER CHILD AWAY.
SO, HER DAUGHTER CONTINUES TO BE ABUSED HER WHOLE LIFE,
WHICH IS, LIKE, INSANE AND HORRIFIC.
THIS, ACTUALLY, WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING,
MAKES ME REALLY GLAD WE DIDN'T MOVE TO ST. GEORGE NOW.
THANK YOU.
SO, WE GET TO SAY, "I TOLD YOU SO."
I GUESS SO.
FINALLY, HE SEES IT.
I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT MOVING TO ST. GEORGE,
I WOULD NOT HAVE WANTED TO LIVE THERE.
THANK GOODNESS NONE OF MY SISTER WIVES
WANTED TO MOVE TO ST. GEORGE, EITHER.
SO, IT WAS IT WORKED OUT.
WOULD YOU BE OKAY WITH UTAH
IF IT WAS, LIKE, DECRIMINALIZED
LIKE IT WAS JUST LIKE A PARKING TICKET?
WOULD YOU BE COMFORTABLE LIVING IN UTAH?
NO, I'M SORRY. I'M NOT GOING.
ARE YOU REALLY ASKING THAT?
YEAH. WOULDN'T IT BE COOL
IF IT WAS JUST LIKE A PARKING TICKET?
I'M JUST GOING TO PRETEND I DIDN'T HEAR KODY'S QUESTION
'CAUSE, UM...YEAH, IT'S IT'S KIND OF CRAZY,
AND IT JUST MAKES ME UPSET AND MAD.
AND I'M HOME IN FLAGSTAFF.
WE'RE GOOD.
AT THIS POINT, I'M REALLY GLAD THAT I AM NOT
IN THE SAME ROOM AS EVERYBODY ELSE, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW,
I WOULD BE JUMPING UP AND DOWN SAYING, "YES."
FLAGSTAFF HASN'T BEEN GREAT FOR OUR FAMILY.
IT HASN'T.
I THINK THAT UTAH'S HOME.
UTAH FEELS LIKE HOME.
I MEAN, AT THIS POINT, I REALLY LOVE FLAGSTAFF.
I'M FLOURISHING HERE. I WANT TO STAY HERE.
SO, JUST DEED ME ALL THE LAND, AND YOU GUYS CAN GO TO UTAH.
I'LL STAY HERE WITH THE LAND. I'LL BE REALLY HAPPY WITH THAT.
I'M NOT SAYING I WANT TO MOVE THERE.
I'M JUST WONDERING IF IT WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
I'M STARTING TO -- LIKE, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
NO, I'M NOT TRYING -- I DON'T WANT TO MOVE THERE.
I'M JUST SAYING I'M GLAD
I DON'T LIVE THERE THROUGH ALL THIS.
IT WOULD BE SO AMAZING TO BE ABLE TO CHOOSE UTAH.
BUT, LIKE, EVEN IF IT IS CHANGED TO THIS,
WHO KNOWS HOW IT'S GOING TO AFFECT AND REALLY WORK.
I'LL BE HONEST WITH YOU, I STILL LAMENT IN A WAY
THAT WE WE WEREN'T ABLE TO MOVE TO ST. GEORGE.
I WISH IT WASN'T THIS WAY.
YOU GOOD, CHRISTINE?
IF THE LAW DOES PASS BY SOME FLIPPING MIRACLE,
THEN AT THAT POINT I'LL TALK TO THE ADULTS.
DO YOU HAVE CHILD CARE THURSDAY NIGHT?
I DO, BUT IF YOU ARE GOING TO TRAVEL
ALL THE WAY BACK, I'LL TRAVEL WITH YOU.
IS EVERYBODY WANTING TO TRAVEL TOGETHER?
WHEN WE TAKE MORE THAN ONE VEHICLE,
IT BUGS THE -- IT JUST REALLY BUGS ME.
IT'S AN INDICATOR THAT WE ARE FUNDAMENTALLY
NOT COMFORTABLE WITH EACH OTHER.
NOW, MY WIVES WILL DENY IT.
YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT.
IT'S NOT ALWAYS COMFORTABLE FOR US TO DO THINGS TOGETHER.
OTHERWISE, WE WOULD DO IT MORE.
ARE WE ALL GOING TO FIT IN THAT CAR, THOUGH?
OKAY, WE'VE GOT TWO SEATS IN FRONT,
THREE SEATS IN THE MIDDLE, BUT THAT WILL BE TIGHT.
WE'VE HAD A BIG CONVERSATION RECENTLY.
WE KIND OF WENT, "WELL, WE NEED TO WORK HARDER
AT BEING CLOSER AS A FAMILY." I THINK THIS IS KIND OF
WHAT'S IN EVERYBODY'S HEADS AS WE SIT HERE
AND TALK ABOUT MAYBE TRAVELING TOGETHER IS LIKE,
THIS COULD BE ONE OF THOSE EXPERIENCES
THAT BOND US A LITTLE BIT.
BUT TRAVELING TOGETHER CAN BE A LOT OF FUN
OR CAN BE REALLY TENSE AND STRESSFUL.
REALLY DEPENDS ON WHERE EVERYBODY'S AT WITH EACH OTHER.
AND IF KODY'S FIGHTING WITH A WIFE,
OR SISTER WIVES ARE HAVING SOME SORT OF DISAGREEMENT
OR SOMETHING. HOPEFULLY IT GOES WELL.
ALRIGHT. SEE YOU TOMORROW MORNING.
-BYE. -BYE.
I JUST THINK THAT THERE'S A VALUE
OF SPENDING TIME TOGETHER.
-OKAY, I GOT TO GO. -ALRIGHT.
SEE YOU IN THE MORNING, MERI,
WHEN YOU DON'T PUT EFFORT INTO A RELATIONSHIP,
IT FIZZLES OUT.
AND I DEFINITELY SEE THAT HAPPENING
SINCE WE'VE BEEN HERE IN FLAGSTAFF.
KODY, WE HAVE MERI'S BAG AND JANELLE'S BAG STILL.
BASED ON LUGGAGE, WE'RE TAKING TWO CARS.
STOP.
SHE OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T WANT TO TRAVEL TOGETHER.
SHE OBVIOUSLY WANTS TO TAKE HER OWN CAR.
LET'S JUST GO. LET'S JUST GO.
WOW. I'VE BEEN READY FOR AN HOUR.
RIGHT THIS SECOND. I WISH I HAD FLOWN.
-COME ON. COME ON. -DON'T HURT MY CAR!
WHAT THE HELL IS SHE DOING?
THIS IS FUN TRAVELING WITH A BUNCH OF BOSSY WOMEN.
ME AND MY WIVES ARE ALL GOING TO UTAH
TO SEE JOE DARGER AND HIS FAMILY.
WE'RE EXCITED ABOUT THAT.
RIGHT NOW, WE'RE ALMOST ON TIME.
WE CAN HURRY AND LOAD FAST, AND WE CAN GET OVER TO MERI'S HOUSE.
WE WERE ONLY 10 MINUTES LATE, WHICH IS HUGE TO US.
OH, HEAVENS TO MURGATROYD.
WHAT? WE'RE NOT FITTING.
HE SAID WE HAVE TO PACK LIGHT,
AND I DON'T THINK HE'S PACKED LIGHT.
KODY HAS THE MOTHER LOAD OF STUFF.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO FIT. I'M JUST SAYING.
KODY, WE HAVE MERI'S BAG AND JANELLE'S BAG STILL.
IT'S NOT GOING TO FIT IN THE CAR.
BASED ON LUGGAGE, WE'RE TAKING TWO CARS.
STOP.
YES. STOP TRYING TO TAKE TWO CARS.
STOP IT NOW. I'M NOT EVEN LISTENING TO THAT.
YEAH, I KNOW. BUT EVERYONE WANTS THEIR AUTONOMY
"OH, AUTONOMY. AUTONOMY.
I DON'T WANT TO SIT BY HER ALL DAY."
IT'S JUST -- GAH.
YOU KNOW, YOU JUST CAN'T TRAVEL
WITHOUT WALKING SHOES OR RUNNING SHOES. COME ON.
IF HE BROUGHT LESS STUFF,
WE COULD FIT ANOTHER PERSON IN THIS CAR!
HE NEEDS TO LEAVE SOME STUFF BEHIND,
MAYBE A COUPLE PAIRS OF SHOES.
THERE. NOW WE FIT.
OKAY, LET'S GO GET THE OTHER LADIES.
I THINK THAT DRIVING TOGETHER COULD GO EITHER WAY.
IT COULD BE REALLY GREAT BONDING
OR IT COULD BE REALLY STRESSFUL,
AND IT COULD BE HARD AND DRAMATIC AND AWKWARD.
SO, WHERE YOU SITTING? YOU'RE SITTING IN THE VERY BACK?
I CAN GO IN THE VERY BACK.
RIGHT NOW, WE'RE GOING OVER TO MERI'S HOUSE.
WE'LL PICK HER UP, AND THEN WE'LL GO AND PICK JANELLE UP.
BASED UPON MY CURRENT PROJECTIONS,
I THINK WE MIGHT ACTUALLY LEAVE
WITHIN 20 MINUTES OF OUR DEPARTURE INTENTION.
CHRISTINE, WE HAVE A FLAT.
WE'RE GOING RIGHT TO THE DEALERSHIP.
-NO, WE DON'T. -YES, I CAN HEAR IT.
WE DID NOT HAVE A FLAT AT HOME!
HOW CAN WE HAVE A FLAT RIGHT NOW?!
I JUST DROVE TO PHOENIX YESTERDAY IN THIS CAR,
AND THE TIRES WERE FINE.
SO, DO YOU GUYS WANT TO WAIT HERE
WITH MERI WHILE I GO GET IT?
NO, THIS IS STUPID.
I AM GOING RIGHT TO THE TIRE PLACE.
LET'S GO. LET'S GO. LET'S GO.
WE'LL COME BACK AND GET MERI.
OKAY, JUST LISTEN -- IF WE WANT TO MAKE THIS TRIP,
WE ARE NOT TAKING THIS CAR.
-WHY NOT? -BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW
HOW LONG IT'S GOING TO TAKE TO FIX IT.
IT'S GOING TO TAKE 20 MINUTES FOR THEM TO FIX IT.
IN YOUR MIND.
THAT'S NOT A 20 MINUTE FIX. YOU HAVE TO WAIT YOUR TURN.
NO, WE NEED TO TAKE ANOTHER CAR.
WE DON'T FIT IN THE OTHER CAR,
AND THE OTHER CAR DOESN'T HAVE POWER TO --
WE'LL TAKE TWO CARS, KODY.
NO, WE'RE NOT TAKING TWO CARS, CHRISTINE.
SHE'S JUST BEING ANTAGONISTIC.
SHE OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T WANT TO TRAVEL TOGETHER.
SHE OBVIOUSLY WANTS TO TAKE HER OWN CAR.
I DON'T SEE WHY WE ALL JUST DON'T GO
TO THE TIRE STORE.
-BECAUSE I CAN'T. -THAT'S ACTUALLY A GOOD IDEA.
THEN WE CAN JUST BE SITTING AT THE TIRE STORE
AND THEN WE CAN TAKE OFF RIGHT FROM THERE
INSTEAD OF YOU HAVING TO COME BACK AND GET US.
LET ME SEE HOW FAST -- I MEAN, WE'RE LOSING AIR AS WE SPEAK.
THAT'S FUN.
MERI?
THAT'S A NICE THING TO START THE TRIP OFF.
MERI?
THAT BROWN BOY IS INTENSE.
MERI?
SO I HAD MY BAG SITTING OUT THERE BY THE DOOR.
WHEN I SAW THEM PULL UP, I'M LIKE, "OK,
I'M GOING TO RUN UP AND GO TO THE RESTROOM REAL QUICK."
AND ALL I HEAR IS KODY YELLING. YELLING.
WE GOT TO HURRY REALLY FAST.
WE GOT... WE GOT A FLAT TIRE.
HOLD ON.
GIVE ME A SECOND.
MERI, I GRABBED YOUR BAG.
OH, GIMME THIS. WE GOT A FLAT TIRE.
WHY DON'T WE JUST TAKE MY CAR THEN?
IT'S JUST AS BIG.
I NEED AN ENGINE THAT WILL PULL US,
ALL THESE BIG PEOPLE, UP THE MOUNTAIN.
LET'S JUST GO. LET'S JUST GO.
WOW. WE'VE BEEN READY FOR AN HOUR.
THE BUREAUCRACY WANTS TO JUST WAIT FOR EVERYBODY
WHILE THE TIRE GOES FLAT,
SO THAT ONE PERSON CAN DO ALL THE WORK TO FIX THE TIRE.
NOW, I'VE GOT MERI MAD AND I'VE GOT CHRISTINE MAD.
GET IN THE CAR. LET'S GO.
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU. SO...
OH, IT'S SUCH A WONDERFUL...
I KNOW. GOOD MORNING.
YUP, I KNOW.
BE BARKED AT THE SECOND I WALK IN.
YEP. I KNOW.
RIGHT THIS SECOND, I WISH I HAD FLOWN.
I'M THE ONE THAT IT JUST GOT TAKEN OUT ON.
MAKING ME REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THIS TRIP
IF THIS IS HOW IT'S STARTING OFF.
SO, SO JUST JUMP OUT BECAUSE SHE'LL,
SHE'LL HAVE TO JUMP IN THE CAR FROM THERE.
HOLY WOW, AM I GOING TO FIT THIS IN THERE?
YEAH, YEAH, YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.
HE PULLS UP AND HE'S LIKE, "GET IN, GET IN, GET IN."
AND HE SAID THAT THE TIRE'S GOING FLAT
AND I CAN SORT OF HEAR IT, AND I'M LIKE,
"OK, WHY DON'T WE JUST GO FIX IT FIRST?"
THIS IS ALL GOING TO WORK JUST BEAUTIFULLY.
OK, JUST EVERYBODY BE PATIENT. DON'T MICRO-MANAGE ME.
KODY JUST GETS REALLY INTENSE AND REALLY ANGRY.
HE'S JUST HIS BROW FURROWS AND HE GETS ALL LIKE...
COME ON, COME ON, COME ON, COME ON.
DON'T HURT MY CAR! -WHAT THE HELL IS HE DOING?
I DON'T THINK THIS TRIP IS STARTING OUT VERY WELL.
I'M JUST SAYING, MAYBE THIS IS WHY WE TAKE SEPARATE CARS!
NOT GONNA LET THEM PUSH ME AROUND.
WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS.
WE'RE NOT... OH, WOW.
THIS IS FUN. TRAVELING WITH A BUNCH OF BOSSY WOMEN.
WE SHOULD CALL NANCY ON THE WAY.
NANCY IS OUR FAMILY THERAPIST, AND WE PROBABLY NEED TO GET HER,
BECAUSE AS OF RIGHT NOW, HE IS BEING SUPER RIDICULOUS.
WHY DON'T WE JUST GO PICK UP NANCY
AND LET HER COME WITH US?
I DON'T KNOW WHERE SHE WOULD FIT.
SHE CAN SIT ON MY LAP. I WOULD DO IT.
SO I GET HERE TO THE TIRE SHOP.
WE PARK THE CAR, THEY FIND THE NAIL, YOU KNOW, THE HOLE,
AND IT'S LIKE, THIS IS GOING TO BE AN EASY FIX.
I WISH YOU'D GET OVER YOUR MINIVAN ISSUE,
BECAUSE MY MINIVAN HAS TONS OF LEGROOM
IN EVERY SINGLE SEAT, NOT JUST THE FRONT SEATS.
I KNOW THAT WE WOULD ALL FIT IN MY MINIVAN REALLY, REALLY WELL,
AND WOULD TRAVEL REALLY WELL. IT'S COMFORTABLE.
ALL RIGHT. NEXT TIME. I MEAN...I'M JUST SAYING.
ALL RIGHT, HE JUST DOESN'T THINK A MINIVAN IS COOL.
OK.
THE TIRE IS UNREPAIRABLE, COMPLETELY.
THEY CAN'T FIX THE TIRE
AND THEY DON'T HAVE THAT SIZE TIRE HERE
BECAUSE IT'S AN ODDITY. SO HE'S SUGGESTING
WE TAKE ANOTHER CAR OUT OF TOWN COMPLETELY.
SHE'S JUST MAKING AN ARGUMENT FOR THE MINIVAN.
DIDN'T I SUGGEST THAT, LIKE,
45 AGO? WAS TO TAKE ANOTHER VEHICLE?
ARE WE ALL GOING TO FIT INTO ROBYN'S VAN?
OR DO WE NEED TO TAKE TWO CARS?
NO, WE'LL ALL FIT IN THE VAN.
THE VAN HAS MORE ROOM THAN THIS.
IT'S OBVIOUS THAT WE REALLY DON'T LIKE BEING TOGETHER,
THE FIVE OF US.
IT'S JUST -- LISTEN, LET'S JUST BE HONEST.
THERE'S NO REASON FOR US TAKING TWO VEHICLES.
-I AGREE. -WE'RE ALL GOING THERE.
WE'RE ALL COMING RIGHT BACK.
I AGREE. I'M JUST SPITTING THINGS OUT.
I COULD ALSO SPIT OUT, WE CAN JUST CALL JOE
ON THE PHONE. SPEAKER -- THAT'S NOT... OK.
SEEING SOMEBODY IN PERSON IS A VERY DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE
THAN CHATTING WITH THEM ON THE PHONE.
SURE, CHRISTINE. NEXT TIME YOU WANT ME OVER,
I'M JUST GOING TO CALL YOU ON THE PHONE.
HOW'S THAT SOUND?
BUT YOU -- WHERE ARE YOU SITTING?
WELL, I THOUGHT YOU WERE SITTING...
DOES IT MATTER? NO.
WHY DON'T YOU TAKE THE FRONT FIRST?
NO. ROBYN CAN TAKE THE FRONT SEAT --
SHE CAN SIT BY MR. ORNERY GRUMPY PANTS.
THAT'S A POLYGAMY PERK --
I DO NOT HAVE TO DEAL WITH KODY RIGHT NOW.
AND SINCE I CAN'T KICK HIM OUT, ROBYN CAN TAKE CARE OF HIM.
DOES IT NEED TO BE ON 80 DEGREES, REALLY, CHRISTINE?
ARE YOU WARMED UP YET?
I THINK FOR ME, THE BIGGEST FEAR
ABOUT GOING BACK INTO UTAH --
IF WE'RE PULLED OVER FOR A TRAFFIC VIOLATION,
ARE THEY GOING TO USE IT AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO TACK ON
THE FELONY POLYGAMY CHARGE?
BECAUSE THAT'S USUALLY HOW IT WORKS --
THEY GET YOU FOR SOMETHING ELSE AND THEN THEY SAY,
OH, THEY ADD IT ON. IT'S AN AUGMENTER.
I'M ALWAYS LIKE, "DON'T SPEAK KODY, DON'T SPEAK."
IT'S DUMB, BUT IT IS A REAL FEAR.
WELL, WE'RE NOT EVEN OUT OF FLAGSTAFF YET.
SURE WE ARE.
OH, NO, WE'RE STILL IN CITY LIMITS, I THINK.
OH, SHH. OK, SHH.
IF YOU CAN IMAGINE, IT'S LIKE YOU'RE GOING
TO A PLACE WHERE YOUR FAMILY IS ILLEGAL.
IT JUST FEELS OPPRESSIVE. IT ALWAYS MAKES ME WORRY.
IT'S NOT MY FAVORITE THING TO DO.
YOU KNOW, THE DARGERS LIVE UNDER ONE ROOF.
THEY JUST HAVE FIGURED OUT HOW TO MAKE IT WORK.
JOE WANTS AN ACTUALLY HIS BEDROOM.
I WANT MY OWN BEDROOM. -HE WANTS A BEDROOM.
-YOU WANT YOUR OWN BEDROOM? -I'M THERE.
YOU'LL SURVIVE IF I CAN SURVIVE SHARING YOU
AND DEALING WITH THE JEALOUSY
AND THE DRAMA, THEN YOU'LL BE OK.
WE GOT HERE ABOUT 11:00 LAST NIGHT.
DESPITE KODY'S MISGIVINGS,
THE VAN HANDLED FINE. WE DID GREAT.
THANK YOU. CAREFUL.
I THINK WE HAD SOME REALLY GOOD CONVERSATIONS.
EVERYTHING FROM DOES KODY REALLY HAVE
TO PUT THE TOILET SEAT UP OR DOWN
TO WHAT THE KIDS WERE DOING.
IF WE PUT US ALL IN THE VAN TOGETHER WITH NOTHING TO DO,
THEN WE'RE GOING TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS,
AND THERE WAS A LOT OF REALLY GOOD CONVERSATION.
-HI! -HI!
COME ON IN!
THE DARGERS ARE OUR REALLY, REALLY, REALLY GOOD FRIENDS.
OH, MY GOSH, I LOVE THEM. THEY'RE SO COOL.
-HEY! -WELL, HELLO.
THEY'RE HERE!
-HI! -OH, HI BABY!
-WOW! -OH.
GOSH, YOU LOOK GOOD.
WOW!
JOE MARRIED ALINA AND VICKY FOREVER AGO,
AND THEN YEARS AND YEARS LATER, VAL WAS MARRIED,
SHE GOT A DIVORCE FROM HER HUSBAND AND SHE MARRIED JOE.
THAT'S VICKY'S SISTER.
IT'S A NORMAL THING FOR YOU AND YOUR GIRLFRIENDS
TO WANT TO MARRY THE SAME GUY. IT'S A NORMAL THING FOR YOU
AND YOUR SISTERS WANT TO MARRY THE SAME GUY.
NORMAL. IT'S NORMAL IN MY COMMUNITY.
NICE TO SEE YOU. HOW ARE YOU?
JUST CUT THE HAIR?
IT'S JUST -- IT WAS JUST A MESS BEFORE, SO...
I DON'T THINK IT'S REALLY UNCOMMON FOR SISTERS
TO END UP IN THE SAME FAMILY UNIT.
BUT IT'S VERY EMPOWERING AS A WOMAN,
BECAUSE IF I SEE A MAN WHO'S A GREAT HUSBAND
AND A GREAT FATHER, AND I FEEL SPIRITUALLY INCLINED
THAT I'M SUPPOSED TO BE IN THEIR FAMILY,
EVEN IF HE IS MARRIED TO MY SISTER,
I CAN STILL MARRY HIM.
WELL, HOW MANY KIDS YOU GUYS STILL HAVE HOME NOW?
NINE. -NINE AT HOME IS ALL.
OUR BABY IS SIX AND IN KINDERGARTEN NOW.
NO WAY! ISN'T THAT WEIRD?
YES, IT'S WEIRD.
HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL, JOE?
WE'VE GOT TO TALK ABOUT THAT
BECAUSE I'M LIKE, DO I...
IS IT TIME TO GROW UP AND STOP HAVING CHILDREN
OR CAN I HAVE ONE MORE? YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING?
YOU'VE GOT -- YOU'RE HAVING THAT --
YOU COULDN'T PASS A GOLF BALL.
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
KODY IS TALKING RIGHT NOW
LIKE HE ACTUALLY BIRTHS THESE CHILDREN.
LIKE HE'S DECIDING WHETHER
OR NOT HE SHOULD HAVE MORE CHILDREN --
I'M LIKE, WELL, IT'S LIKE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A PARTNER.
I GOT TEAMMATES.
OK, GO HAVE A CONVERSATION.
EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT THE OTHER WIVES ARE DONE,
SO WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT IS ME AND MY REPRODUCTION
IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY.
DUDE, LIKE I'M RIGHT HERE. THIS ISN'T AN OPEN CONVERSATION.
IT'S BEEN A FUNNY THING FOR ME TO SIT HERE AND GO,
I COULD BE DONE HAVING KIDS, BECAUSE IT'S BEEN, YOU KNOW,
FOR REALLY 45 YEARS OF MY LIFE,
I'VE BEEN THINKING "I'M GOING TO BE A DADDY."
YOU KNOW, FROM THE TIME I WAS SMALL,
I THOUGHT, WHAT KIND OF DAD AM I GOING TO BE?
HOW MANY KIDS WILL I HAVE?
AND IT JUST KEEPS KIND OF COMING BACK ON ME,
THIS THOUGHT -- COULD I HAVE ONE MORE?
FOR ME, THE REWARD HAS BEEN THE GRANDCHILDREN.
LIKE, IT'S SO FULFILLING.
AND THEN...
BUT OUR SIX-YEAR-OLD STILL WANTS A BABY SISTER
BECAUSE SHE SEES OTHER PEOPLE GETTING BABY SISTERS.
SHE KEEPS TRYING TO FIND ME ANOTHER WIFE.
MY SIX-YEAR-OLD WANTS TO FIND -- LIKE, "SHE COULD BE OUR MOM,
BECAUSE I WANT A SISTER."
-OH, THAT'S FUNNY. -YEAH, SHE ASKED ALL OF US.
AND WE'RE LIKE... EQUIPMENT'S DONE. WE'RE DONE.
I WISH THAT KODY HAD MORE EXPOSURE TO FRIENDS
THAT WERE POLYGAMISTS.
THERE'S A CAMARADERIE,
THERE'S EXAMPLES THAT CAN BE SET FOR EACH OTHER.
IT JUST WOULD BE A GOOD THING,
AND WE'VE BEEN MISSING THAT FOR A LOT OF YEARS.
AND I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'LL EVER GET IT BACK,
BECAUSE WE LIVE IN FLAGSTAFF AND IT'S NOT LIKE
THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH PLURAL FAMILIES AND FLAGS OUT.
YOUR KITCHEN'S AWESOME.
YOU GUYS DID YOUR OWN KITCHEN?
YEAH. -IT'S REALLY AWESOME.
PART OF WHAT DROVE THIS IS THE CHANGING OF OUR FAMILY
WHERE WE WANTED MORE OPEN SPACE.
BECAUSE THE FAMILY'S ACTUALLY GROWING, RIGHT?
YOU KNOW WHAT? I COULD SEE THAT.
YOU KNOW, THE DARGERS LIVE UNDER ONE ROOF.
THEY SHARE A KITCHEN,
WHICH, WOW, MY HAT'S OFF TO THEM.
THEY JUST HAVE FIGURED OUT HOW TO MAKE IT WORK.
LOT OF FAMILIES CAN'T. A LOT OF PEOPLE DO.
EVEN WE'RE CONTEMPLATING WHAT WE WANT TO BUILD
FOR OUR FINAL DREAM HOME. I WANT TO DESIGN OUR HOUSE
WHERE WE HAVE STILL A CENTRAL KITCHEN THAT WE ALL SHARE,
BUT THEN EACH OF THESE GUYS
WITH THEIR OWN LITTLE KIND OF APARTMENT
AND THEN MORE SOME APARTMENTS...
AND JOE WANTS AN ACTUALLY HIS BEDROOM.
I WANT MY OWN BEDROOM.
SO PLURAL MEN NEVER GET THERE ALONE TIME, BUT PLURAL WOMEN DO.
I THINK PLURAL HUSBANDS GET JEALOUS OF THE TIME
THAT THE PLURAL WIVES HAVE TO THEMSELVES.
-YOU WANT YOUR OWN BEDROOM? -I'M THERE.
I'M LIKE, OK...
I AM SICK OF GOING TO THREE CLOSETS.
I'LL NEVER GET THAT. THAT'LL NEVER BE ALLOWED.
YEAH. OH, SURE.
I'M, I'M TIRED OF DEALING WITH WIVES AND THEIR CLOSETS
AND STUFF LIKE THAT, BLAH BLAH BLAH.
YOU'LL SURVIVE IF I CAN SURVIVE SHARING YOU AND DEALING
WITH THE JEALOUSY AND THE DRAMA AND ALL THE STUFF THAT HAS TO DO
WITH PLURAL MARRIAGE, THEN YOU'LL BE OK.
IT'S NICE TO SEE YOU, MAN.
I THINK ONE OF OUR BIGGEST PROBLEMS
IS WE DON'T HAVE OTHER POLYGAMISTS
TO FELLOWSHIP WITH.
THERE IS SOMETHING...
THERE'S ALMOST A HOMEY LITTLE SAFETY
WHEN WE SEE YOU GUYS
THAT JUST MAKES ME EMOTIONAL --
IT'S LIKE SEEING RELATIVES.
IT'S HARD BEING AWAY FROM OTHER POLYGAMISTS.
IT'S SO DIFFERENT.
YEAH. THERE'S A CERTAIN CULTURAL,
AND JUST, I DON'T KNOW.
YOU JUST KNOW WHEN PEOPLE GET IT, YOU KNOW?
YEAH.
OUR FAMILY, WE'RE SEPARATING AND SEPARATING,
AND IT'S ALMOST LIKE WE'RE INTERACTING MORE WITH PEOPLE
WHO ARE NOT A PLURAL FAMILY, SO THEY DON'T GET IT,
SO WE'RE STARTING TO REACT MORE LIKE...
AN INDIVIDUAL FAMILY, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A TIME
THAT WE REALLY PULLED TOGETHER, AND WE STRUGGLED TOGETHER,
AND I DON'T FEEL LIKE WE'RE STRUGGLING TOGETHER RIGHT NOW.
WE'RE STRUGGLING INDEPENDENTLY OF EACH OTHER.
IT WOULD BE COOL IF IT WASN'T THAT WAY.
WE COULD REALLY BENEFIT FROM BEING WITH OTHER POLYGAMISTS.
YOU KNOW, WE'VE LIVED IN A MONOGAMOUS WORLD FOR SO LONG.
AND IT'S HARD. IT'S HARD.
IT'S ALMOST LIKE WE SHOULD MOVE BACK OR SOMETHING, I DON'T KNOW.
I UNDERSTAND KODY'S WANTING EVERYONE TOGETHER,
BECAUSE I THINK THE CONS SEEM PETTY TO ME.
I HATE THIS CONVERSATION.
I DON'T LIKE TALKING ABOUT THE ONE HOUSE --
IT'S VERY VULNERABLE.
FOR ME, THE AMAZING THING HAS BEEN
THE INTERACTION WITH ALL OF THE KIDS.
I KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO NOT HAVE THAT.
I'M JUST GOING TO BE FRANK HERE, I'M LIKE A STEP-MOM.
TELL ME WHAT YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT WITH YOUR HOUSES,
WHAT ARE YOU THINKING WHEN YOU BUILD?
I PRESENT THE FAMILY THE IDEA
OF A ONE HOME. FOR COMMON AREA,
WE WOULD HAVE ANOTHER KITCHEN,
ABOUT LIKE THIS,
THAT WOULD MAKE IT SO ALL THE KIDS
AND ALL THE WIVES COULD CONVERGE ON
A COMMON AREA.
I THOUGHT IT WAS A GENIUS DESIGN.
I LOVE IT. I THINK THAT'S ACTUALLY
REALLY IMPORTANT FOR US TO BE ABLE TO GATHER
ALL TOGETHER AND HAVE THE SPACE TO DO THAT.
I'M NOT PITCHIN', I'M BITCHIN'.
THERE'S A SENSE IN ME THAT THIS DOESN'T WORK,
BUT I REALLY AND TRULY WANT TO KNOW WHY,
AND I WANT TO BE HONEST ABOUT OUR RELATIONSHIPS.
MY WHOLE LIFE, I'VE BEEN UNDER
WHAT I WANT TO CALL THE DOGMA
THAT IF YOU'RE ONE FAMILY,
YOU NEED TO BE ONE HOME.
TO GROW AS A CELESTIAL FAMILY.
IT'S NOT ABOUT GROWTH. FOR ME,
I JUST REALLY WANTED
ACCESS TO ALL MY CHILDREN EVERY DAY.
WHEN I WAS YOUNGER, I WAS TAUGHT THAT THE RIGHT WAY
TO LIVE PLURAL MARRIAGE WAS TO LIVE ALL TOGETHER.
NO, YOU DON'T HAVE TO, THOUGH. YOU DON'T HAVE TO, THOUGH.
IT'S TAUGHT THAT MAYBE YOU SHOULD --
THAT WAS WHEN I WAS WAY YOUNGER AND I UNDERSTOOD THINGS
MORE BLACK AND WHITE AS WELL. MY PARENTS DIDN'T.
THE EXAMPLE THAT I HAD FOR PLURAL MARRIAGE
DIDN'T LIVE TOGETHER.
BUT IN JUST CONVERSATIONS WITH CHRISTINE,
I REALIZED SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE
I HAD TO OPEN MY MIND AND GO, "THIS IS A DOGMA."
A DOGMA IS A RELIGIOUS PERSPECTIVE
THAT HAS BEEN CREATED THROUGH TRADITION.
BUT IF YOU'RE IN LOVE WITH TWO WOMEN AND YOU'RE MARRIED TO THEM
AND THEY DON'T REALLY LIKE EACH OTHER,
HAVING THEM LIVE TOGETHER WOULD BE SOUL-KILLING FOR THEM.
I'M USING THAT AS EXAMPLE. I'M NOT SAYING THAT IN MY CASE.
SO WE DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.
WE DON'T WANT TO KILL --
WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE LIVING IN PLURAL MARRIAGE
AND ENDURING THEIR FRESH HELL SO THAT THEY CAN GO TO HEAVEN.
WHAT IT REALLY BOILS DOWN TO, THOUGH, IS LIKE IF WE'RE NOT
ALL UNITED IN THIS IDEA, THEN IT JUST DOESN'T WORK.
SO IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER.
I'M SURE IT DOESN'T.
IF IT DOESN'T WORK FOR ONE PERSON...
IT DOESN'T WORK FOR THEM.
AND CHRISTINE AND I HAVE HAD OUR LITTLE STRUGGLE,
BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORK FOR HER...
IT WASN'T A LITTLE STRUGGLE, MIND YOU.
WE'RE BOTH PRETTY HEATED ABOUT IT AND HAVEN'T HAD
A REAL LOGICAL CONVERSATION ABOUT ONE HOUSE
AND HOW BAD I HATE IT.
SO WE STILL NEED TO TALK ABOUT IT.
IF YOU'RE NOT READY, FORCING A CONVERSATION TO HAPPEN,
IT NEVER GOES WELL.
WELL, I'VE ACTUALLY LIVED TOGETHER
AND LIVED APART,
AND THERE ARE PROS AND CONS TO BOTH.
LIKE, IT JUST IS.
LIKE SOME PEOPLE THINK IF YOU LIVE APART,
THEN YOU DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS
OR ISSUES WITH EACH OTHER.
WE ALL KNOW THAT'S NOT TRUE, RIGHT?
YOU MAKE MORE UP IN YOUR HEAD
WHEN YOU'RE LIVING APART, DON'T YOU?
I'M REALLY GRATEFUL TO BE ABLE TO LIVE
IN THE HOUSE WE DO ALL TOGETHER.
I THINK THAT THE BENEFITS OUTWEIGH THE CHALLENGES,
IF YOU ASK ME. AND I THINK THE MORE TIME
WE SPEND IN CONTACT WITH ONE ANOTHER,
WE ACTUALLY HAVE MORE COMPASSION AND MORE UNDERSTANDING
AND CARING THAN WE WOULD
IF WE JUST DIDN'T SEE EACH OTHER AS OFTEN
AND IT WAS JUST KIND OF VISITING.
IN FACT, I WONDER HOW MUCH
WE'D EVEN GET TOGETHER SOMETIMES.
AND THEN WHEN YOU'RE TOGETHER,
IT MAKES YOU DEAL WITH IT A LOT MORE,
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
LIKE, AND I'M NOT SAYING
MAKES YOU LIKE YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT,
BUT IT'S KIND OF LIKE YOU'RE HERE
AND NOW YOU'RE IN THIS CONVERSATION.
IT'S WEIRD IF WE WALK AROUND
NOT TALKING TO EACH OTHER,
WHICH WE HAVE FOR WEEKS ON END.
BUT, YOU KNOW.
HONESTLY, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I HAVE NOTICED
ABOUT OUR FAMILY -- WHEN YOU'RE NOT TOGETHER,
YOU DON'T DEAL WITH IT BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE TO.
IT'S LONELY, YOU KNOW.
I UNDERSTAND KODY'S WANTING EVERYONE TOGETHER
BECAUSE I THINK THE PROS ARE SO MUCH STRONGER, FOR ME.
TO BE ABLE TO BE WITH MY KIDS IN ONE HOME
AND NOT FEELING LIKE I'M GOING INTO
THREE DIFFERENT DOMAINS.
AND THE CONS SEEM PETTY, TO ME,
FROM MY PERSPECTIVE,
AND AT THE SAME TIME,
THAT'S REALLY SELFISH ON MY PART,
BECAUSE IT TAKES A LOT MORE
FOR WHAT THEY HAVE TO WORK IN.
I MEAN, THEY'VE SAID BEFORE THE HARDEST THING
WAS SHARING A WASHING MACHINE
SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, LIKE...
I HATE THIS CONVERSATION --
IT'S VERY VULNERABLE,
AND THAT'S WHAT IT'S LIKE LIVING ALL TOGETHER.
AND IT'S TOO HARD. IT'S WAY TOO HARD.
FOR ME, THE AMAZING THING HAS BEEN THE INTERACTION
WITH ALL OF THE KIDS,
I GET TO BE PART OF THEIR LIVES
AND THEY GET TO BE PART OF MINE,
AND I LOVE IT ON MY BIRTHDAY WHEN THEY TALK TO ME
AND TELL ME HOW MUCH FUN IT IS TO LIVE WITH ME
AND THEY'RE NOT MY BIOLOGICAL KID.
IT REALLY PRICKED MY HEART BECAUSE I KNOW
WHAT IT'S LIKE TO NOT HAVE THAT.
I'M JUST GOING TO BE FRANK HERE, I'M LIKE A STEP-MOM.
I WILL ALWAYS WANT AND PROMOTE THOSE RELATIONSHIPS
AS MUCH AS I POSSIBLY CAN,
BUT IT HAS BEEN A SOURCE OF SADNESS FOR ME.
MY CHILDREN THAT GREW UP UNDER ONE ROOF WILL GO, FOR EXAMPLE,
TO CHRISTINE'S HOUSE AND THEY'RE LOOKING IN THE FRIDGE,
IT'S VERY COMFORTABLE FOR THEM, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE
THAT SAME EXPERIENCE GOING TO ROBYN'S HOUSE
BECAUSE THEY NEVER LIVED UNDER THE SAME ROOF WITH HER.
IT'S JUST WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU LIVE TOGETHER.
WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT OUR EXPERIENCE.
I WOULDN'T WANT TO CONVINCE ANYBODY.
AND I WOULDN'T TAKE AWAY WITH WHERE YOU'RE AT.
THAT'S WHAT I WANT, THOUGH. BECAUSE I'M TRYING
TO SORT OF MAKE PEACE WITH WHAT'S BEEN DECIDED. YEAH.
IT'S A VERY DIFFERENT THING LIVING TOGETHER IN ONE HOME.
THERE'S GROWTH THERE
THAT YOU CAN'T GET IF YOU'RE LIVING APART.
I'M REALIZING THAT I WILL NEVER HAVE THIS EXPERIENCE.
THERE'S SOMETHING GOING ON -- OF RECENT I'VE HAD TO REALLY
REFLECT ON THE ONE HOME THING.
IT BOTHERS ME DEEPLY,
BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE I'VE DONE SUCH A POOR JOB
BECAUSE MY FAMILY DOESN'T WANT TO BE IN ONE HOME.
AND SO THAT'S BEEN A REAL REFLECTION ON ME
FOR HOW I'VE MANAGED MY FAMILY, HOW I'VE DONE THINGS.
AND I'M GOING BACK THROUGH THE PAST AND I AM UNRAVELING IT.
WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST THAT MADE IT
SO WE COULDN'T BE IN ONE HOME?
WHAT DID I MISS? WHAT INJUSTICE WAS I ALLOWING?
I HAVEN'T GOTTEN TO THE REAL REASON,
AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWERS ARE.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.
DON'T LOOK AT IT AS IT'S YOUR FAILURE,
LIKE YOU GUYS WENT THROUGH A CRUCIBLE.
I REMEMBER VERY DISTINCTLY THIS TIME 10 YEARS AGO
WHEN YOU GOT NEWS OF THE INVESTIGATION
AND YOU'RE LIKE, "WE'RE GETTING OUT."
-WE'RE LEAVING. YEAH. -WE'RE LEAVING.
AND TO PICK UP YOUR WHOLE FAMILY
AND GO TO LAS VEGAS, LIKE,
CAN YOU THINK OF SOMETHING MORE DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT
THAN SALT LAKE?
NOPE.
AND YOUR KIDS STILL LOVE EACH OTHER.
I MEAN, LIKE, YOU GUYS STILL ARE A FAMILY.
AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, DON'T MINIMIZE THAT.
FAMILIES LIKE OURS NEED SUPPORT.
WE REALLY DO.
MY EXPERIENCE OF THE BROWNS IS
SINCE THEY HAVE MOVED TO VEGAS AND THEN TO FLAGSTAFF,
THAT THEY'VE LOST A SENSE OF COMMUNITY THAT THEY HAD.
I KNOW FOR US, BEING HERE IN UTAH,
THAT'S BEEN A VERY IMPORTANT FACTOR FOR US TO HAVE.
AND I FEEL LIKE THAT'S IMPACTED THE BROWNS QUITE A BIT.
AT THE END OF THE DAY,
YOU GUYS ARE TOGETHER, YOU'RE HERE.
THAT IS SOMETHING TO CELEBRATE.
YEAH, JOE'S BEING KIND,
SAYING, "YOU GUYS AREN'T THAT DYSFUNCTIONAL."
AND I'M GOING, "WE'RE NOT AS FUNCTIONAL AS I WISH WE WERE."
I GUESS THE ONE HOME DISCUSSION HAS REALLY MADE ME
JUST AWARE OF OF SORT OF A FRUSTRATION --
MAYBE I SHOULD JUST BE FORGIVING ABOUT IT. JUST LET IT GO.
SO WHAT. OK, WE'RE GOING TO LIVE IN DIFFERENT HOMES. BIG DEAL.
WE'RE OK.
AND THIS IS WHERE I MIGHT BE ABLE TO RELATE
TO EVERY SINGLE MARRIED MAN IN THE WHOLE WORLD,
A POLYGAMIST OR NOT, IS SOME DAYS
YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'VE GOT A GREAT MARRIAGE
AND SOME DAYS YOU FEEL LIKE YOU DON'T.
IN UTAH, JUST TO CALL EACH OTHER SISTER WIVES IS A FELONY,
POLYGAMY RIGHT NOW IN UTAH IS A FE-LO-NY.
WE'RE SITTING WITH FELLOW FELONS.
MORE POLYGAMISTS NEED TO BE PUBLIC AND OPEN.
KODY COULD GO TO JAIL FROM ANYWHERE FROM 9 TO 15 YEARS.
YEAH, COME SIT, COME SIT.
NOT YOU. YOU STAY THERE.
YOU'RE MAKING ME FEEL LIKE KODY RIGHT NOW.
OH, YEAH. TELLING ME WHAT TO DO?
TELLING ME WHERE TO GO.
I GOT FOUR PUPPET STRINGS,
AND ONE WIFE HOLDS EACH STRING.
YOU WISH YOU ONLY HAD FOUR.
I THINK YOU'RE PRETTY SURE
YOU'VE GOT LIKE 25 PUPPET STRINGS.
NO, JUST FOUR.
I DON'T EVER ASK YOU TO DO ANYTHING.
OHH!
WELL, YOU'RE STILL...
SO MAYBE YOU ONLY HAVE THREE PUPPET STRINGS.
YOU'RE STILL STRUMMING THAT STRING, YOU KNOW.
I DON'T. I HAVE CUT THOSE STRINGS.
THERE'S A WALL! I'M MAKING MY WALL HERE.
THAT WAS AN INTERESTING LITTLE DANCE FOR HIM.
I WAS TRYING TO BE AS BIG AS I COULD TO BE A WALL.
I JUST DON'T WANT THEM TO HAVE AN ISSUE RIGHT HERE.
LIKE IT'S A DEEPER ISSUE, RIGHT THERE,
WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT, IT'S JUST, WANT THEM TO GET ALONG.
SO, JOE, WHAT DOES THIS BILL ACTUALLY MEAN?
SO THE BILL'S CALLED SB102.
THE ESSENTIAL ELEMENT IS,
IT AMENDS THE BIGAMY LAWS RIGHT NOW.
IN UTAH JUST TO CALL EACH OTHER WIVES --
SISTER WIVES -- IS A FELONY.
POLYGAMY RIGHT NOW IN UTAH IS A FE-LO-NY.
WE'RE SITTING WITH FELLOW FELONS.
WE'RE FELONS JUST LIKE THEM --
THEY COULD COME IN AND ARREST US ALL.
IT'S UP THERE WITH MURDER. JUST SAYING.
NOW INSTEAD OF BEING A FELONY TO CALL EACH OTHER WIVES,
IT'S AN INFRACTION --
IT'D BE LIKE GETTING A JAYWALKING TICKET,
UP TO -- THE MOST, IT'D BE A $700 TICKET.
OR MAYBE SOME COMMUNITY SERVICE.
IT'S LESS THAN A MISDEMEANOR.
WOW!
RIGHT NOW, IT'S A FELONY.
WHICH MEANS YOU CAN GO TO PRISON.
YOU CAN GO TO PRISON FOR 3 TO 5 YEARS FOR IT,
AND THEN GET BACK AND GO BACK IN,
I GUESS, BECAUSE YOU'RE STILL POLYGAMOUS
WHEN YOU'RE DONE, RIGHT.
IN THEORY, KODY COULD, BECAUSE HE HAS ONE LEGAL WIFE
AND THREE PLURAL WIVES --
HE COULD GO TO JAIL FROM ANYWHERE FROM 9 TO 15 YEARS.
THEN YOU'RE YOUR PROBATION INVOLVES NOT SEEING
YOUR CHILDREN, NOT RECOMMITTING THE FELONY,
SO BASICALLY, IF YOU SAW YOUR CHILDREN AGAIN,
THEN YOU WERE VIOLATING PROBATION --
THAT TOOK YOU INTO THE FEDERAL SYSTEM.
IT'S JUST A BIG MESS. IT'S A BIG MESS.
AND THE MYTH RIGHT NOW IS,
OH, THE SENATE PASSED -- BUT, WE HAVE TWO HOUSES.
WE HAVE THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE.
AND SO THE WORK IS FAR FROM DONE,
AND I DON'T WANT TO CELEBRATE TOO EARLY
AND JINX ANYTHING, RIGHT?
YEAH, IT PASSED THE SENATE,
BUT IT HAS TO GO TO THE HOUSE NEXT --
THERE'S A LOT MORE PEOPLE IN THE HOUSE --
AND THEN THE GOVERNOR.
SO, IT'S STILL SOME BIG STEPS.
SO, LIKE, I -- YEAH, WE'RE STILL A LONG WAYS.
THREE YEARS AGO, IT WAS SUCH A DIFFERENT STORY.
YOU GUYS, WHAT HAPPENED IN THESE THREE YEARS THAT MADE IT SO?
WELL, YOU REMEMBER, 3 YEARS AGO, WE LOST BY A VOTE.
IT WAS JUST ONE.
THERE WAS SOME OF THESE POWERFUL PEOPLE AGAINST IT
THAT REALLY MADE THIS COMPELLING CASE
THAT WE NEEDED THIS TO GO AFTER BAD GUYS.
IT'S SO INTERESTING THAT THEY FELT LIKE
THEY NEEDED TO WRITE A LAW
THAT TARGETED PLURAL MARRIAGE WITH THESE CRIMES
WHEN THEY COULD PROSECUTE UNDERAGE CHILD MARRIAGE
AND WELFARE FRAUD AND ALL THOSE THINGS SEPARATELY --
THEY DIDN'T NEED A POLYGAMY STATUTE. IT'S WEIRD.
IT WAS LIKE THEM SAYING, "OH, POLYGAMISTS ARE THESE PEOPLE."
I THINK WHAT'S CHANGED IS MORE PEOPLE COMING FORWARD
AND TELLING THEIR STORY ABOUT THEIR LIFE,
ABOUT THIS HAS BEEN HARMFUL FOR THEM.
WE'VE GOT A CASE THAT WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH,
WITH SOMEBODY THAT IS IN URGENT NEED OF MEDICAL CARE,
NEEDS TO GET IN,
BUT SHE'S ADAMANT SHE'S NOT FILLING OUT THE PAPERWORK
BECAUSE SHE WAS PART OF A PLURAL FAMILY,
SHE'S AFRAID SHE'LL BE ARRESTED.
PEOPLE ARE EXPRESSING THAT A LOT MORE, I THINK,
THAN THEY USED TO.
THESE STORIES AREN'T NEW.
THERE'S SO MANY THINGS I DIDN'T DO BECAUSE I WAS A POLYGAMIST
AND I DIDN'T WANT PEOPLE TO FIND OUT THAT MY DAD WAS A POLYGAMIST
BECAUSE HE COULD GET PUT IN JAIL.
PEOPLE HAVE NOT BEEN GOING TO COLLEGE
BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T APPLY FOR SCHOLARSHIPS --
FILLING OUT THE CENSUS.
IT'S SO SCARY. YOU CAN'T APPLY FOR ANY HELP AT ALL. EVER.
CHRISTINE'S GRANDPA BACK IN THE 70s,
HE WAS THE LEADER OF OUR CHURCH.
AND THERE WAS AN ARTICLE QUOTING HIM
SAYING, "MORE POLYGAMISTS NEED TO BE PUBLIC AND OPEN
SO THAT WE CAN BE REALIZED AS NORMAL MAINSTREAM PEOPLE
WITH JUST A VERY SMALL DIFFERENCE FROM EVERYBODY ELSE."
SO MY GRANDPA WAS ALWAYS TRYING TO TELL PEOPLE,
"GO PUBLIC, GO PUBLIC.
YOU NEED TO SHOW THAT IT'S OK TO BE A PLURAL FAMILY.
YOU NEED TO SHOW THAT WE WE'RE REALLY JUST ABOUT LOVE,
AND THAT'S ALL THIS IS, IS RAISING KIDS TOGETHER.
HE WANTED PEOPLE IN THE POLYGAMIST CULTURE
TO COME FORWARD, BUT THEN HE DID.
THE LAW CAME AFTER MY GRANDPA AND THEIR FAMILY HAD TO SEPARATE
AND THEY CERTAINLY NEVER GOT BACK TOGETHER AGAIN.
SO HE WAS URGING EVERYBODY TO COME OUT OF THE SHADOWS,
BUT THE TIMING WASN'T RIGHT.
BUT THE TIMING IS RIGHT NOW. WE NEED TO STOP BEING AFRAID.
YOU KNOW, I LOOK FORWARD TO THE DAY WHEN WE'RE OPEN
AND WE'RE TREATED LIKE EVERY OTHER CITIZEN HERE
AND THAT OUR FAMILIES AND MY GRANDKIDS
CAN GROW UP WITH A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE
THAN I GREW UP.
-YEAH. -YEAH.
-AMEN. -ABSOLUTELY.
I FEEL CAUTIOUSLY HOPEFUL ABOUT THIS, YOU KNOW,
AND IF IT DOESN'T HAPPEN THIS TIME,
AT LEAST IT'S ANOTHER STEP. BECAUSE WE'RE NOT GOING AWAY.
NOT OUR FAMILY, NOT JOE'S FAMILY,
AND NOT THE POLYGAMIST CULTURE.
THANK YOU FOR LUNCH.
JUST THANK YOU FOR BEING YOU GUYS,
BECAUSE I'VE HAD SUCH A WONDERFUL EXPERIENCE
BEING YOUR FRIENDS.
-AND IT'S NICE TO SEE YOU. BEEN WAY TOO LONG.
FAR TOO LONG, BUT I DO LOVE THAT
WE ARE JUST LIKE FAMILY --
WE JUST PICK UP RIGHT WHERE WE LEFT OFF.
I LOVE YOU GUYS.
IT WAS GREAT TO SEE THE BROWNS --
IT'D BEEN A LONG TIME
AND THEY DID SEEM A LITTLE STRESSED TO ME,
AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S FROM THE MOVE,
OR EVERYTHING THEY'VE BEEN DEALING WITH,
OR JUST HAVING A LARGE FAMILY --
SOMETIMES THAT'S JUST STRESSFUL BY ITSELF.
I REALLY AUTHENTICALLY MISSED THEM.
I WISH THEY WERE CLOSER.
WE JUST REALLY LOVE THEM AND LOVE SPENDING TIME WITH THEM
AND I WISH WE COULD SEE THEM A LOT MORE THAN WE DO.
IF WE HAD STAYED IN UTAH,
OUR FAMILY COULD HAVE BEEN BROKE APART, YOU KNOW,
AND WE WORKED SO HARD
AND GAVE UP SO MUCH TO STAY A FAMILY.
AND I THINK WE'VE LOST SIGHT OF THAT A LITTLE BIT.
AND TO HEAR ABOUT THIS BILL IS JUST LIKE,
OK, ALL THOSE SACRIFICES WE MADE WILL BE WORTH IT,
BECAUSE THIS WAS WHY WE DID THIS.
WAS SO THAT WE COULD BE A FAMILY,
SO WE GOTTA REMEMBER THAT AND PUT THE EFFORT INTO THAT
AND TO GET THAT PROPERTY TOGETHER
AND TO WORK ON THE RELATIONSHIPS UNTIL THEN.
NEXT TIME ON "SISTER WIVES,"
IT'S GREAT NEWS THAT I'M DROPPING.
I THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO TELL US YOU WERE PREGNANT.
I DON'T THINK KODY WILL EVER BE DONE HAVING CHILDREN.
WHAT ARE WE THINKING WITH THE PROPERTY
AND WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO NEXT?
JUST BECAUSE THE HOUSES HAVE SOLD
DOESN'T MEAN WE'VE GOT MONEY.
EVERYBODY'S GOING TO WANT THE SAME FLIPPING PROPERTY.
AND LISTEN, LADIES, YOU KNOW THAT
YOU'RE PUSHING FOR A FIGHT HERE.
I DON'T KNOW WHY PAYING A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY
IS A PROBLEM.
MAYBE WHAT I NEED TO DO IS JUST TURN IT OVER TO THEM.
YOU KNOW, IT MIGHT ACTUALLY GO BETTER --
MAYBE THE DRAMA PROBLEM IN OUR LIVES IS ME.
I'M SORRY. I'M NOT --NO, WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS --
WELL, YOU GUYS, THIS IS A HUGE MISUNDERSTANDING.
THEIR RELATIONSHIP REALLY DOES HAVE AN EFFECT
ON THE REST OF THE FAMILY.
HERE, YOU HOLD HER HAND TOO, KODY.
IF MERI AND I REALLY WANTED TO BE TOGETHER,
WE WOULD.