1 00:00:30,267 --> 00:00:31,133 CHILD 1: That's not fair! Come on! 2 00:00:31,233 --> 00:00:32,033 You said yesterday. 3 00:00:32,133 --> 00:00:33,900 That's not my fault! 4 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:35,600 Come on, luv. Chop, chop. 5 00:00:35,700 --> 00:00:36,500 Chop, chop! 6 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:37,267 Chop, chop! 7 00:00:37,367 --> 00:00:38,533 Anyone seen my overalls? 8 00:00:38,633 --> 00:00:40,500 There's some clean ones in the back, luv. 9 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:41,767 Oh. Thanks. 10 00:00:41,867 --> 00:00:42,667 Andy! Josh! 11 00:00:42,767 --> 00:00:45,067 It's 10 past! 12 00:00:45,167 --> 00:00:46,000 Where's Andy? 13 00:00:46,100 --> 00:00:46,967 I don't know. 14 00:00:47,067 --> 00:00:48,200 Who's moved my rucksack? 15 00:00:48,300 --> 00:00:48,933 Me. 16 00:00:49,033 --> 00:00:50,533 But it was in the way. 17 00:00:50,633 --> 00:00:51,333 Right. 18 00:00:51,433 --> 00:00:52,800 Jade, I want you in the car. 19 00:00:52,900 --> 00:00:54,167 Come on. Get your shoes on. 20 00:00:54,267 --> 00:00:55,433 - Yes, mummy. - And you, luv. 21 00:00:55,533 --> 00:00:56,400 Come on. 22 00:00:56,500 --> 00:00:57,333 Let's go. 23 00:00:57,433 --> 00:00:58,700 I'm tired! 24 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,000 And I'm hungry! 25 00:01:01,100 --> 00:01:02,900 Andy! 26 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:03,867 We are going now! 27 00:01:03,967 --> 00:01:05,100 CHILD 2: Mummy! 28 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:06,333 CHILD 3: Got your rucksack? CHILD 2: OK. 29 00:01:06,433 --> 00:01:07,233 I'll go into town. - You got your bus fare? 30 00:01:07,333 --> 00:01:08,233 Yeah. See you later. 31 00:01:08,333 --> 00:01:09,200 CHILD 2: No! That's not fair! 32 00:01:09,300 --> 00:01:10,500 CHILD 3: Oh, I can get my-- 33 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:11,700 CHILD 2: So you got two of them! Yes, you did! 34 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:12,967 You-- CHILD 1: Come on, Chris! 35 00:01:13,067 --> 00:01:14,067 See you, luv. CHILD 1: You're always late. 36 00:01:14,167 --> 00:01:15,500 CHILD 2: Well, so are you. - Go up! 37 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:16,533 CHILD 1: No, I'm not. JANET: Got your recorder, Jade? 38 00:01:16,633 --> 00:01:17,500 CHILD 2: Yes, you are. 39 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:18,733 Mum, it's not recorder day today. 40 00:01:18,833 --> 00:01:19,867 - Isn't it? - That's tomorrow. 41 00:01:19,967 --> 00:01:20,800 Oh. 42 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:45,067 SONG: Become good friends. 43 00:01:55,567 --> 00:01:56,400 May, get that. 44 00:02:07,700 --> 00:02:08,967 Is your mum in? 45 00:02:09,067 --> 00:02:10,133 She's inside. 46 00:02:16,633 --> 00:02:17,467 Mum! 47 00:02:21,900 --> 00:02:22,833 Oh, bloody hell. 48 00:02:22,933 --> 00:02:24,000 Not you again. 49 00:02:24,100 --> 00:02:24,933 That's right. 50 00:02:25,033 --> 00:02:27,433 Me again. 51 00:02:27,533 --> 00:02:29,100 And what's that? 52 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,133 A warrant to search the house and the garden. 53 00:02:34,933 --> 00:02:36,200 Excuse me! 54 00:02:36,300 --> 00:02:37,133 Mum! 55 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:42,000 What's going on? 56 00:02:42,100 --> 00:02:43,367 - What-- I don't know. - Well, what do you-- 57 00:02:43,467 --> 00:02:44,133 I don't know. 58 00:02:44,233 --> 00:02:45,300 She's come in. 59 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:46,600 She said she's got a search warrant. 60 00:02:46,700 --> 00:02:47,933 STEVEN: Wait, and what are they searching for? 61 00:02:48,033 --> 00:02:50,333 Out of my house you great lummox! 62 00:02:50,433 --> 00:02:53,200 What, then, are the signs of abuse, which social workers 63 00:02:53,300 --> 00:02:55,467 should look for in children? 64 00:02:55,567 --> 00:02:57,100 These may be physical-- 65 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,033 unexplained cuts and bruises. 66 00:02:59,133 --> 00:03:01,533 But they may also be behavioral. 67 00:03:01,633 --> 00:03:04,233 Is the child withdrawn, aggressive, 68 00:03:04,333 --> 00:03:06,100 or unusually introverted? 69 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,433 Is there an unspoken atmosphere of fear in the house? 70 00:03:11,533 --> 00:03:13,700 It's me. 71 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,767 That interfering bloody arsehole bitch is here again. 72 00:03:16,867 --> 00:03:19,200 She got a search warrant this time. 73 00:03:19,300 --> 00:03:22,100 So you better have your story straight. 74 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,000 And anything you need to do, you better get done. 75 00:03:25,100 --> 00:03:26,067 Mm-hmm. 76 00:03:47,667 --> 00:03:48,633 Hello? 77 00:03:48,733 --> 00:03:49,533 Speaking. 78 00:03:53,033 --> 00:03:55,400 Oh, right. 79 00:03:55,500 --> 00:03:57,900 So you want me to come in now? 80 00:03:58,000 --> 00:03:59,233 No. No. 81 00:03:59,333 --> 00:03:59,967 Fine. 82 00:04:00,067 --> 00:04:03,300 Um, half an hour? 83 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:04,233 OK, then. 84 00:04:04,333 --> 00:04:05,733 Bye. 85 00:04:05,833 --> 00:04:07,300 That were the police. 86 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:08,833 They need an Appropriate Adult. 87 00:04:08,933 --> 00:04:09,833 A what? 88 00:04:09,933 --> 00:04:10,933 You know. 89 00:04:11,033 --> 00:04:12,467 It's that thing I volunteered for. 90 00:04:12,567 --> 00:04:14,733 You lot don't listen to a word I say, do you? 91 00:04:59,733 --> 00:05:00,567 Janet Leach? 92 00:05:00,667 --> 00:05:01,600 Yeah. 93 00:05:01,700 --> 00:05:02,967 This way, please. 94 00:05:03,067 --> 00:05:05,033 Detective Superintendent Bennett's waiting for you. 95 00:05:08,033 --> 00:05:08,867 Janet Leach. 96 00:05:08,967 --> 00:05:10,600 The Appropriate Adult, sir. 97 00:05:10,700 --> 00:05:12,700 Sorry for calling you in at this time of day. 98 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:15,100 Probation and Social Services had no one available. 99 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,267 Do you mind if I ask you who it is? 100 00:05:17,367 --> 00:05:19,900 It's 52-year-old man. 101 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:21,333 With learning difficulties? 102 00:05:21,433 --> 00:05:23,400 Well, all I can say is that we've been advised 103 00:05:23,500 --> 00:05:26,300 to have an Appropriate Adult. 104 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,333 Oh, yes. 105 00:05:28,433 --> 00:05:29,800 You have done this before? 106 00:05:29,900 --> 00:05:30,767 Oh, no. 107 00:05:30,867 --> 00:05:32,400 But I've done the training. 108 00:05:32,500 --> 00:05:33,900 Ah. 109 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,433 Carry on. - Howard Ogden. 110 00:05:37,533 --> 00:05:38,400 Solicitor. 111 00:05:58,133 --> 00:05:59,533 This tape-recorded interview is 112 00:05:59,633 --> 00:06:02,167 being conducted at Gloucester Central Police Station. 113 00:06:02,267 --> 00:06:04,467 I'm DC Darren Law, and my colleague here, is-- 114 00:06:04,567 --> 00:06:05,433 DC Hazel Savage. 115 00:06:05,533 --> 00:06:07,667 And, can I have your name, please? 116 00:06:07,767 --> 00:06:09,367 Frederick Walter Steven West. 117 00:06:09,467 --> 00:06:11,000 And acting as your legal representative? 118 00:06:11,100 --> 00:06:12,200 Howard Ogden. 119 00:06:12,300 --> 00:06:13,867 And acting as your Appropriate Adult. 120 00:06:13,967 --> 00:06:16,433 Oh, Janet Leach. 121 00:06:16,533 --> 00:06:18,167 You're not here just to observe the interview is 122 00:06:18,267 --> 00:06:20,767 conducted fairly, but also to advise Mr. West 123 00:06:20,867 --> 00:06:22,733 and facilitate communication with him. 124 00:06:22,833 --> 00:06:23,700 I understand. 125 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:25,000 Super. 126 00:06:25,100 --> 00:06:27,800 The date is Friday the 25th of February, 1994. 127 00:06:27,900 --> 00:06:30,300 The time is 16:57. 128 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:31,967 Before we set off, I've got to remind you Fred, 129 00:06:32,067 --> 00:06:33,400 that you're still under caution, and that you 130 00:06:33,500 --> 00:06:35,233 don't have to say anything unless you wish to do so. 131 00:06:35,333 --> 00:06:37,100 But anything you do say, may be used in evidence. 132 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:38,667 Do you understand? - Yeah. 133 00:06:38,767 --> 00:06:40,133 OK. 134 00:06:40,233 --> 00:06:42,267 You were arrested earlier today, by my colleague here, 135 00:06:42,367 --> 00:06:45,267 in relation to the murder of your daughter, Heather. 136 00:06:45,367 --> 00:06:47,433 Could you tell me in your own words what you know about that? 137 00:06:47,533 --> 00:06:49,467 Well, what happened was, Heather wanted to leave home, 138 00:06:49,567 --> 00:06:50,867 see? 139 00:06:50,967 --> 00:06:52,733 And she'd been knocking about with this girl with a red mini. 140 00:06:52,833 --> 00:06:56,400 That's a mini skirt, not a mini car. 141 00:06:56,500 --> 00:06:58,733 And we were pretty sure she was a lesbian, like. 142 00:06:58,833 --> 00:07:01,700 So me and Rose said, hang on a sec. 143 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:02,967 You better think about this girl. 144 00:07:03,067 --> 00:07:03,867 You know? 145 00:07:03,967 --> 00:07:06,067 Give it a night at least. 146 00:07:06,167 --> 00:07:11,033 So next morning come up, and she looked real rough. 147 00:07:11,133 --> 00:07:13,100 She been crying and-- 148 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,633 So Rose says, let her go. 149 00:07:16,733 --> 00:07:20,233 She said, I'll go to the bank and draw out 600 pound. 150 00:07:20,333 --> 00:07:22,600 She can have that and go. 151 00:07:22,700 --> 00:07:24,600 So Rose goes off, and I'm left in the hall 152 00:07:24,700 --> 00:07:26,933 with-- with Heather and her suitcase. 153 00:07:27,033 --> 00:07:31,367 And she's got hands on hips, you know, the big lady, like. 154 00:07:31,467 --> 00:07:36,033 And I say, how about you a flat up the road, 155 00:07:36,133 --> 00:07:38,200 and you can have girlfriends up there. 156 00:07:38,300 --> 00:07:42,633 And she said, if you don't let me fucking go, 157 00:07:42,733 --> 00:07:44,133 I'll give all the kids acid-- 158 00:07:44,233 --> 00:07:49,267 that's LSD, like-- and they'll jump off the church roof 159 00:07:49,367 --> 00:07:50,633 and kill theirselves. 160 00:07:50,733 --> 00:07:53,600 And I say well, that ain't very nice, girl. 161 00:07:53,700 --> 00:07:56,933 You'll threaten to do that your own brother and sisters? 162 00:07:57,033 --> 00:08:00,267 And she's got this smile on her face, like a sort of smirk. 163 00:08:00,367 --> 00:08:02,433 Like, try me and I'll do it. 164 00:08:02,533 --> 00:08:04,633 So I just lunged at her like that. 165 00:08:04,733 --> 00:08:06,400 And then I grabbed her by the throat like that, 166 00:08:06,500 --> 00:08:10,667 and then held her there for I don't know how long, 167 00:08:10,767 --> 00:08:11,933 but it was quick. 168 00:08:12,033 --> 00:08:13,400 You know, it was real quick, because it's 169 00:08:13,500 --> 00:08:15,333 surprising how long you can hold someone by the throat 170 00:08:15,433 --> 00:08:16,833 until they-- 171 00:08:16,933 --> 00:08:18,700 until they-- 172 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,067 But I can't even remember to that extent what happened next, 173 00:08:22,167 --> 00:08:26,233 but the next minute she's gone blue. 174 00:08:26,333 --> 00:08:28,633 And I'm looking at her from head to foot, you know, 175 00:08:28,733 --> 00:08:30,800 and what the heck's gone wrong? 176 00:08:30,900 --> 00:08:33,367 So I put her on the floor, and I'm blowing in her mouth. 177 00:08:33,467 --> 00:08:34,867 I'm pumping her chest, and-- 178 00:08:34,967 --> 00:08:36,200 But she kept on getting bluer. 179 00:08:36,300 --> 00:08:37,300 And I didn't know what to do. 180 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,000 I mean, I hadn't meant to hurt her. 181 00:08:39,100 --> 00:08:40,367 And Rose is due back any minute. 182 00:08:40,467 --> 00:08:41,967 I'm thinking, jeez, I got to do something. 183 00:08:42,067 --> 00:08:45,367 And I was scared. 184 00:08:45,467 --> 00:08:48,000 So I was going to put her in the Wendy house. 185 00:08:48,100 --> 00:08:49,867 And then I thought I'll put her in the dust bin. 186 00:08:49,967 --> 00:08:51,300 But I couldn't get her in there. 187 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:56,267 So I get this ice saw, you know, with the two prongs 188 00:08:56,367 --> 00:08:58,033 at the top, and the serrated edges. 189 00:08:58,133 --> 00:09:01,000 You use them for cutting blocks of ice. 190 00:09:01,100 --> 00:09:03,333 And I cut her legs off. 191 00:09:03,433 --> 00:09:08,267 And I mean, that was unbearable. 192 00:09:11,100 --> 00:09:12,367 Yeah. 193 00:09:12,467 --> 00:09:14,633 I can still hear that in my sleep. 194 00:09:14,733 --> 00:09:16,267 And I cut her head off, and-- 195 00:09:16,367 --> 00:09:19,700 Well, I closed her eyes first, because-- 196 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:21,900 Well, you're not going to take a saw to your own daughter, 197 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,433 when she's sat there looking at you, are ya? 198 00:09:25,533 --> 00:09:27,267 And then she fit neatly in the bin, 199 00:09:27,367 --> 00:09:31,767 so I push it down to the end of the garden, behind-- 200 00:09:31,867 --> 00:09:33,000 behind the Wendy house. 201 00:09:33,100 --> 00:09:34,100 And then I take her suitcase of clothes, 202 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:35,167 and I stuck it out beyond the vats. 203 00:09:35,267 --> 00:09:37,033 So-- their rubbish. 204 00:09:37,133 --> 00:09:40,100 And then I got Heather from behind the Wendy house, 205 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,833 and buried her. 206 00:09:43,933 --> 00:09:45,067 And I've been meaning to come down 207 00:09:45,167 --> 00:09:47,767 here and get all this sorted out before, 208 00:09:47,867 --> 00:09:49,133 but I never got round to it. 209 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,733 Can I ask if the Appropriate Adult's all right? 210 00:09:59,833 --> 00:10:02,933 I'm quite all right, thank you. 211 00:10:03,033 --> 00:10:04,500 HAZEL: Let's get this clear. 212 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:06,667 You're saying you killed your daughter. 213 00:10:06,767 --> 00:10:08,133 But not intentionally. 214 00:10:08,233 --> 00:10:10,167 DC LAW: What sort of grave are we looking for? 215 00:10:10,267 --> 00:10:12,067 FRED: Just a hole in the ground, about four foot square. 216 00:10:12,167 --> 00:10:14,033 HAZEL: And what's in this hole? 217 00:10:14,133 --> 00:10:15,167 FRED: Well, Heather. 218 00:10:15,267 --> 00:10:16,533 HAZEL: How many pieces? 219 00:10:16,633 --> 00:10:17,367 FRED: Three pieces. 220 00:10:17,467 --> 00:10:18,967 Two legs, a head, and a body. 221 00:10:19,067 --> 00:10:20,633 DC LAW: That's four pieces. 222 00:10:20,733 --> 00:10:23,767 You happy to come to the house and point out where she is? 223 00:10:23,867 --> 00:10:25,167 Yeah. 224 00:10:25,267 --> 00:10:29,033 Why didn't you tell us all this before, Fred? 225 00:10:29,133 --> 00:10:30,433 I wasn't ready. 226 00:10:30,533 --> 00:10:31,800 Or is it because we're carrying out 227 00:10:31,900 --> 00:10:33,000 a search of your property, and you're 228 00:10:33,100 --> 00:10:34,167 afraid we might find her? 229 00:10:34,267 --> 00:10:34,900 No. 230 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,167 No. 231 00:10:36,267 --> 00:10:38,500 You see, all this is causing stress to Rose, 232 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:39,500 and I don't want that. 233 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:40,967 And the thing I'd like to make clear 234 00:10:41,067 --> 00:10:44,000 is that Rose knew nothing about any of this. 235 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,567 The time is 17:08, by my watch, 236 00:10:50,667 --> 00:10:52,233 and the interview has ended whilst arrangements 237 00:10:52,333 --> 00:10:56,200 are made to visit 25 Cromwell Street. 238 00:10:56,300 --> 00:10:59,700 This notice explains what happens to the tapes. 239 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:00,700 Can I have a word? 240 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:02,367 Yeah, sure. 241 00:11:02,467 --> 00:11:03,500 Is Rose here? 242 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,333 HAZEL: No. 243 00:11:05,433 --> 00:11:06,967 I've got a feeling she's in the building. 244 00:11:07,067 --> 00:11:08,033 She's not here. 245 00:11:13,833 --> 00:11:15,467 I just wanted to make sure you're OK. 246 00:11:15,567 --> 00:11:16,967 Ah, yeah. 247 00:11:17,067 --> 00:11:18,800 Yeah, I'm fine. 248 00:11:18,900 --> 00:11:20,633 ROSE: Get Off! 249 00:11:20,733 --> 00:11:22,200 She is here. 250 00:11:22,300 --> 00:11:25,433 ROSE: Treat it right. 251 00:11:25,533 --> 00:11:29,967 I thought they were taking her straight to Cheltenham. 252 00:11:30,067 --> 00:11:30,900 This way, Miss. 253 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:31,867 Oi! 254 00:11:31,967 --> 00:11:33,000 You're unbelievable you lot. 255 00:11:33,100 --> 00:11:34,867 It's fucking unbelievable. 256 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:40,833 JOSH: Hello? 257 00:11:40,933 --> 00:11:41,800 Oh, hi, luv. 258 00:11:41,900 --> 00:11:42,733 It's me. 259 00:11:42,833 --> 00:11:43,667 Is everything all right? 260 00:11:43,767 --> 00:11:44,800 JOSH: Yeah. 261 00:11:44,900 --> 00:11:46,567 Have you had tea? 262 00:11:46,667 --> 00:11:48,100 JOSH: Sort of. 263 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,833 You might have to put Jay to bed. 264 00:11:50,933 --> 00:11:51,767 Where are you? 265 00:11:51,867 --> 00:11:52,667 JANET: Told you. 266 00:11:52,767 --> 00:11:53,967 I'm at the police station. 267 00:11:54,067 --> 00:11:56,633 I'm helping the police with an investigation. 268 00:11:56,733 --> 00:11:58,133 What investigation? 269 00:11:58,233 --> 00:12:01,733 DS BENNETT: Yeah, the press obviously working on it now. 270 00:12:01,833 --> 00:12:02,900 I can't talk about it. 271 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:03,800 I'm really sorry, luv. 272 00:12:03,900 --> 00:12:04,800 I got to go. 273 00:12:04,900 --> 00:12:05,833 I'll see you later, all right? 274 00:12:05,933 --> 00:12:06,833 Bye. 275 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:11,633 DC LAW: What? 276 00:12:11,733 --> 00:12:12,767 Overalls? 277 00:12:12,867 --> 00:12:14,100 FRED: Standard police issue are they? 278 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:15,667 DC LAW: Nothing but the best. 279 00:12:15,767 --> 00:12:16,900 FRED: Damn stuff . 280 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:17,833 You all set? 281 00:12:17,933 --> 00:12:18,733 DC LAW: What's that then? 282 00:12:18,833 --> 00:12:20,167 Why-- 283 00:12:20,267 --> 00:12:23,933 FRED: Explain this bloke's . 284 00:12:24,033 --> 00:12:25,133 DC LAW: We don't have back scratchers 285 00:12:25,233 --> 00:12:27,133 in the station, Fred. 286 00:12:27,233 --> 00:12:28,167 The car ready? 287 00:12:28,267 --> 00:12:31,700 I know you from somewhere. 288 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:32,700 I'm sure you don't. 289 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:33,667 You don't half look familiar. 290 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,733 DC LAW: I'm going to start with Mr. West. 291 00:12:42,300 --> 00:12:45,933 Ain't just Heather I buried in that garden. 292 00:12:46,033 --> 00:12:47,200 There's more. 293 00:12:47,300 --> 00:12:48,900 More? 294 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,133 You wouldn't believe it. 295 00:12:51,233 --> 00:12:53,867 Not that you can let on to the police I told you that, eh? 296 00:12:53,967 --> 00:12:55,900 You'll keep what I say in confidence. 297 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,600 But you're a good Appropriate Adult. 298 00:12:57,700 --> 00:12:59,700 You'll already know that. 299 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:01,867 HAZEL: Mrs. Leach? 300 00:13:01,967 --> 00:13:04,367 OK? 301 00:13:04,467 --> 00:13:05,967 All ready? 302 00:13:06,067 --> 00:13:07,267 Let's go. 303 00:13:07,367 --> 00:13:09,100 Right arm please, Fred. 304 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:29,033 Where's Rose? 305 00:13:29,133 --> 00:13:30,800 HAZEL: On her way to Cheltenham police station. 306 00:13:30,900 --> 00:13:33,400 She's also under arrest. 307 00:13:33,500 --> 00:13:35,400 That's a waste of her time and yours. 308 00:13:35,500 --> 00:13:37,967 HAZEL: Come on. 309 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,433 The work I put into this place. 310 00:14:19,533 --> 00:14:23,467 Looking through here, building on there. 311 00:14:23,567 --> 00:14:25,667 Years of back-break to get it looking tickety-boo. 312 00:14:25,767 --> 00:14:27,967 I need to remind you, you're still under caution, Fred. 313 00:14:28,067 --> 00:14:29,500 Do you understand? 314 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:31,600 Yes, thank you, Hazel. 315 00:14:31,700 --> 00:14:34,833 Can you show us where you buried your daughter, Heather? 316 00:14:57,267 --> 00:14:58,800 Problem is remembering what you did when-- 317 00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:19,300 I'd try there. 318 00:15:22,067 --> 00:15:23,400 HAZEL: Is Bernard still around? 319 00:15:23,500 --> 00:15:25,033 DC LAW: No, he's gone home for the night. 320 00:15:25,133 --> 00:15:26,600 HAZEL: Get him back. We'll need a pathologist. 321 00:15:26,700 --> 00:15:27,500 See? 322 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:28,900 There. 323 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,867 What? 324 00:15:31,967 --> 00:15:33,033 And there. 325 00:15:35,467 --> 00:15:37,533 What am I supposed to be looking at? 326 00:15:37,633 --> 00:15:38,467 HAZEL: OK. 327 00:15:38,567 --> 00:15:39,933 We're going to get a forensic team 328 00:15:40,033 --> 00:15:42,233 to start examining that area. 329 00:15:42,333 --> 00:15:43,467 We'll take you back to the station 330 00:15:43,567 --> 00:15:45,733 now, apply for an extension of custody, 331 00:15:45,833 --> 00:15:47,600 and resume our interview tomorrow. 332 00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:49,700 Is there anything else you wish to say? 333 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:50,900 Yes. 334 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,133 Will the Appropriate Adult be present? 335 00:15:53,233 --> 00:15:54,233 Can you attend? 336 00:15:57,300 --> 00:15:58,133 Yeah. 337 00:15:58,233 --> 00:15:59,633 If you want me. 338 00:15:59,733 --> 00:16:01,667 That's sorted then. 339 00:16:01,767 --> 00:16:02,800 She's been very helpful so far. 340 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,033 CHILD 2: So you already said that I could go next time. 341 00:16:20,133 --> 00:16:21,600 So I should be able to go. 342 00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:22,700 CHILD 1: Chris. 343 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,400 Stop making all this nonsense up. 344 00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:26,967 CHRIS: Well, do you think I could 345 00:16:27,067 --> 00:16:28,533 actually make up that nonsense? 346 00:16:28,633 --> 00:16:29,533 I'm speaking that fact. 347 00:16:29,633 --> 00:16:30,600 I'm not making it up! 348 00:16:30,700 --> 00:16:31,333 You said-- 349 00:16:49,300 --> 00:16:50,533 CHILD 3: Gonna play this? CHILD 2: No. 350 00:16:50,633 --> 00:16:52,200 It's boring. CHILD 1: Not it's not. 351 00:16:52,300 --> 00:16:53,267 CHLD 2: I said, yeah. 352 00:16:53,367 --> 00:16:54,167 MIKE: Shh! 353 00:16:54,267 --> 00:16:55,100 CHILD 1: Come on! 354 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:56,000 You said yesterday. 355 00:16:56,100 --> 00:16:57,333 That's not my fault. 356 00:16:57,433 --> 00:17:00,067 MIKE: I've been on that job over at Barwood. 357 00:17:00,167 --> 00:17:01,833 Never before. 358 00:17:01,933 --> 00:17:03,867 What a mess. 359 00:17:03,967 --> 00:17:04,900 Might have to rescheme it all. 360 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:05,867 I told them. 361 00:17:05,967 --> 00:17:08,967 I said, this'll take weeks. 362 00:17:09,067 --> 00:17:09,867 Hey! 363 00:17:09,967 --> 00:17:10,867 Cut it out, you two! 364 00:17:10,967 --> 00:17:11,800 Hey! 365 00:17:20,067 --> 00:17:20,900 Mike? 366 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:22,867 Hmm? 367 00:17:22,967 --> 00:17:23,867 Were you taking them? 368 00:17:23,967 --> 00:17:24,833 Oh, yeah. 369 00:17:24,933 --> 00:17:25,767 Yeah. 370 00:17:42,167 --> 00:17:43,333 DC LAW: Gloucester Police Station. 371 00:17:43,433 --> 00:17:46,400 The date is 26th of February, 1994. 372 00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:48,767 The time is 10:38. 373 00:17:48,867 --> 00:17:50,033 I'm DC Law. 374 00:17:50,133 --> 00:17:51,033 My colleague here is-- 375 00:17:51,133 --> 00:17:52,267 HAZEL: DC Savage. 376 00:17:52,367 --> 00:17:53,833 DC LAW: Could I have your full name, please? 377 00:17:53,933 --> 00:17:55,133 FRED: Fredrick Walter Steven West. 378 00:17:55,233 --> 00:17:56,533 DC LAW: And your legal representative? 379 00:17:56,633 --> 00:17:57,900 HOWARD: Howard Ogden. 380 00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:59,567 And acting as your Appropriate Adult? 381 00:17:59,667 --> 00:18:00,633 Janet Leach. 382 00:18:00,733 --> 00:18:02,000 DC LAW: I have to remind you that you're 383 00:18:02,100 --> 00:18:03,633 still under caution. Do you understand? 384 00:18:03,733 --> 00:18:04,800 FRED: Yes. 385 00:18:04,900 --> 00:18:05,733 And before you say anything else, me 386 00:18:05,833 --> 00:18:06,433 and him just an argument. 387 00:18:06,533 --> 00:18:07,600 Discussion. 388 00:18:07,700 --> 00:18:08,733 And I'm telling you now, what I just told him. 389 00:18:08,833 --> 00:18:10,167 Heather is not in that garden. 390 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:14,967 She's alive and well, and possibly 391 00:18:15,067 --> 00:18:17,267 at this moment in Bahrain. 392 00:18:17,367 --> 00:18:19,933 She's been recruited to work for a drugs cartel 393 00:18:20,033 --> 00:18:21,667 as a drug runner. 394 00:18:21,767 --> 00:18:23,867 They treat her like a queen. 395 00:18:23,967 --> 00:18:26,767 She gets in touch now and again to tell me she's all right. 396 00:18:26,867 --> 00:18:28,800 She's using a false name. 397 00:18:28,900 --> 00:18:31,933 I have no idea what that is, and I will not let her tell me. 398 00:18:32,033 --> 00:18:35,700 Now, whether or not you believe in that, is entirely up to you. 399 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:37,333 But that's why you find nothing in that garden. 400 00:18:37,433 --> 00:18:40,100 And you won't, not even if you dig till kingdom come. 401 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,100 And I don't care how much money and time 402 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,600 you waste, because you wasted mine. 403 00:18:44,700 --> 00:18:46,033 Not just now, but in the past. 404 00:18:46,133 --> 00:18:47,600 Because there were previous allegations. 405 00:18:47,700 --> 00:18:48,867 There was nothing in them. 406 00:18:48,967 --> 00:18:50,567 Rape and buggery of two of your children. 407 00:18:50,667 --> 00:18:51,933 Which was never proven. 408 00:18:52,033 --> 00:18:54,600 You had me remanded in prison, spat at by other prisoners. 409 00:18:54,700 --> 00:18:56,900 My younger kids put into care, where they still are-- 410 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:58,300 poor little lambs-- 411 00:18:58,400 --> 00:18:59,833 trying to force me to admit that I assaulted them. 412 00:18:59,933 --> 00:19:01,267 Trying to get to the truth, Fred. 413 00:19:01,367 --> 00:19:03,000 You turned my house upside down. 414 00:19:03,100 --> 00:19:04,167 And we'll do so again. 415 00:19:04,267 --> 00:19:06,400 3,000 pound that cost me last week. 416 00:19:06,500 --> 00:19:08,567 We'll keep on searching till we find Heather. 417 00:19:08,667 --> 00:19:10,600 All because of some stupid remark about her being 418 00:19:10,700 --> 00:19:11,900 under the patio. 419 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,400 That remark was made by your own daughter, Fred. 420 00:19:13,500 --> 00:19:14,867 Annmarie said it was a family joke-- 421 00:19:14,967 --> 00:19:15,800 A joke. 422 00:19:15,900 --> 00:19:16,900 There you are. 423 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:18,400 To social workers, who like me, 424 00:19:18,500 --> 00:19:20,867 have had concerns about your family for a considerable time. 425 00:19:20,967 --> 00:19:22,300 You're the beautifulest woman in Gloucester 426 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,033 when you're angry, Hazel. 427 00:19:25,133 --> 00:19:28,833 I'm just trying to get to the truth this time, Fred. 428 00:19:28,933 --> 00:19:30,133 You're bring personal and vindictive-- 429 00:19:30,233 --> 00:19:31,533 I'm being neither, Fred. 430 00:19:31,633 --> 00:19:34,633 -- against me and my Rose, who loves our family. 431 00:19:34,733 --> 00:19:38,067 Who'd do anything for them. 432 00:19:38,167 --> 00:19:40,500 Why are you saying this now, Fred? 433 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,600 Last night you took us to the house 434 00:19:42,700 --> 00:19:47,767 with Mr. Ogden and this lady, and you showed us a grave. 435 00:19:47,867 --> 00:19:50,067 You inconvenienced me. 436 00:19:50,167 --> 00:19:51,233 So you're trying to inconvenience 437 00:19:51,333 --> 00:19:54,033 DC Savage to get back at her? 438 00:19:54,133 --> 00:19:57,900 You're really saying there's nothing in that grave? 439 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,433 Why are you smirking? 440 00:20:00,533 --> 00:20:02,567 Who's smirking? 441 00:20:02,667 --> 00:20:07,667 You said yesterday, you wanted to get all this sorted out. 442 00:20:07,767 --> 00:20:09,967 And then I spent the night in a cell thinking what I want 443 00:20:10,067 --> 00:20:11,267 is Rose back in our home. 444 00:20:11,367 --> 00:20:12,433 I want my children back. 445 00:20:12,533 --> 00:20:13,967 I want my house and garden reinstated. 446 00:20:14,067 --> 00:20:15,067 We are a family. 447 00:20:17,900 --> 00:20:22,833 Well, lets just ask Mrs. Leach, as an independent lady, 448 00:20:22,933 --> 00:20:23,767 what she thinks. 449 00:20:26,767 --> 00:20:29,467 Um. 450 00:20:29,567 --> 00:20:34,967 Well, he's clearly contradicting what he said last night. 451 00:20:35,067 --> 00:20:36,200 Did you hear that, Fred? 452 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:39,633 And I saw the smirk. 453 00:20:46,167 --> 00:20:48,100 For the benefit of the tape, PC Roberts 454 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:49,167 has entered the room. 455 00:21:07,067 --> 00:21:08,800 Nothing more hurtful than someone saying you 456 00:21:08,900 --> 00:21:09,733 don't love your kids. 457 00:21:18,900 --> 00:21:20,867 Bet you feel the same way. 458 00:21:20,967 --> 00:21:23,067 Bet you're a mother. 459 00:21:23,167 --> 00:21:24,700 That's completely irrelevant. 460 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:25,933 Oh, but it's not you see. 461 00:21:26,033 --> 00:21:27,400 Because I think you understand how deep 462 00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:30,333 my feelings are for my family. 463 00:21:30,433 --> 00:21:31,300 Don't ya? 464 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,000 Time for a cuppa I'd say, Hazel. 465 00:21:40,100 --> 00:21:43,700 HAZEL: We can take a refreshment break shortly. 466 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,267 But first, I'd like to discuss the information 467 00:21:47,367 --> 00:21:49,033 that Detective Superintendent Bennett's 468 00:21:49,133 --> 00:21:51,133 just sent from your house. 469 00:21:51,233 --> 00:21:52,800 What information? 470 00:21:52,900 --> 00:21:55,133 They found some bones in the garden. 471 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:08,067 Well, like I said, I want to get all this sorted out. 472 00:22:08,167 --> 00:22:11,333 Our pathologist is confident they're human. 473 00:22:11,433 --> 00:22:15,667 If I accused you of inconveniencing me, 474 00:22:15,767 --> 00:22:20,967 then I apologize. 475 00:22:21,067 --> 00:22:25,567 You sure you buried Heather all in one place? 476 00:22:25,667 --> 00:22:27,200 You what? 477 00:22:27,300 --> 00:22:30,967 You didn't scatter any of her body around the garden? 478 00:22:31,067 --> 00:22:32,267 No. 479 00:22:32,367 --> 00:22:33,867 Because they found another body part 480 00:22:33,967 --> 00:22:35,167 in another part of the garden. 481 00:22:37,700 --> 00:22:40,533 Well, I can't think how that could have got there. 482 00:22:40,633 --> 00:22:42,833 Are you suggesting it wasn't part of Heather? 483 00:22:42,933 --> 00:22:45,100 It must have been. 484 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,033 HAZEL: It was a thighbone. 485 00:22:48,133 --> 00:22:50,433 They've already found two thigh bones. 486 00:22:50,533 --> 00:22:52,267 Heather didn't three legs, did she? 487 00:22:57,533 --> 00:23:00,700 Do you have any knowledge how this other bone 488 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:01,767 could have got there, Fred? 489 00:23:04,533 --> 00:23:05,333 Yes. 490 00:23:07,833 --> 00:23:08,633 Shirley. 491 00:23:11,567 --> 00:23:13,333 Shirley, who? 492 00:23:13,433 --> 00:23:14,867 Robinson. 493 00:23:14,967 --> 00:23:16,800 The girl that caused all the trouble. 494 00:23:20,667 --> 00:23:23,933 The girl with the red mini. 495 00:23:24,033 --> 00:23:25,033 Thank you, yes. 496 00:23:28,867 --> 00:23:31,200 See, she lodged with us. 497 00:23:31,300 --> 00:23:36,933 And I had an affair with her, and she got pregnant. 498 00:23:37,033 --> 00:23:38,367 And she wanted to marry me, and she said 499 00:23:38,467 --> 00:23:40,233 she was going to tell Rose. 500 00:23:40,333 --> 00:23:41,467 There was a bit of an argument. 501 00:23:41,567 --> 00:23:42,400 Got out of hand somehow. 502 00:23:42,500 --> 00:23:46,033 And she ended up getting strangled. 503 00:23:46,133 --> 00:23:48,267 And where was Rose at this time? 504 00:23:48,367 --> 00:23:50,033 In the hospital, having her baby. 505 00:23:50,133 --> 00:23:52,867 Which baby? 506 00:23:52,967 --> 00:23:54,333 Babs. 507 00:23:54,433 --> 00:23:55,267 No. 508 00:23:55,367 --> 00:23:56,100 Not Babs. 509 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,300 Um, young Rosemarie. 510 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,133 I'd come back from seeing Rose in the hospital. 511 00:24:01,233 --> 00:24:06,533 And Shirley and I had this row, and I killed her. 512 00:24:06,633 --> 00:24:07,967 HAZEL: How? 513 00:24:08,067 --> 00:24:09,833 Strangled her with a piece of flax. 514 00:24:09,933 --> 00:24:11,833 Buried her in the garden? 515 00:24:11,933 --> 00:24:12,767 Yeah. 516 00:24:17,067 --> 00:24:19,167 And her with a baby inside her, too. 517 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,600 Can't tell you how that's haunted me. 518 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:30,433 I mean, the bit about the baby yeah? 519 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:39,700 Killing Shirley, the-- the baby would have died, too. 520 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:01,800 Think we'll end there. 521 00:25:01,900 --> 00:25:03,533 Does anyone have anything else to say? 522 00:25:07,267 --> 00:25:09,633 DC LAW: Time is 11:06, and the interview is ended. 523 00:25:09,733 --> 00:25:10,533 Excuse me. 524 00:25:57,867 --> 00:26:01,000 We've decided to leave the interviews for today. 525 00:26:01,100 --> 00:26:03,067 Oh, OK. 526 00:26:03,167 --> 00:26:05,233 Fred needs some clean clothes. 527 00:26:05,333 --> 00:26:07,567 I wonder, could you go to the house with Mr. Ogden 528 00:26:07,667 --> 00:26:09,433 and get them? 529 00:26:09,533 --> 00:26:11,367 Um, yeah all right. 530 00:26:11,467 --> 00:26:13,733 And whilst you're at it, could you get some for Mrs. West, 531 00:26:13,833 --> 00:26:14,867 too? 532 00:26:14,967 --> 00:26:16,733 We're still holding her Cheltenham. 533 00:26:16,833 --> 00:26:18,267 OK. 534 00:26:18,367 --> 00:26:22,600 Um, does he really have learning difficulties? 535 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:28,400 So why do you need an Appropriate Adult? 536 00:26:31,100 --> 00:26:32,467 Detective Superintendent Bennett's 537 00:26:32,567 --> 00:26:36,700 concerned there's no suggestion Mr. West had difficulty 538 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:38,233 understanding any of this. 539 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,500 REPORTER 1: Can you give us anything at all? 540 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,467 REPORTER 2: Can you give us any information at all? 541 00:27:02,833 --> 00:27:03,733 POLICE OFFICER 1: In you go. 542 00:27:12,033 --> 00:27:12,833 POLICE OFFICER 2: This way. 543 00:27:12,933 --> 00:27:16,433 Right at the top I think. 544 00:27:16,533 --> 00:27:17,767 QL: 1-7-4. 1-7-4. 545 00:27:17,867 --> 00:27:18,833 Quebec Lima. Over. 546 00:27:19,900 --> 00:27:20,833 174: Quebec Lima, go ahead. 547 00:27:20,933 --> 00:27:21,967 Over. 548 00:27:22,067 --> 00:27:23,733 QL: include roof access 549 00:27:23,833 --> 00:27:24,967 to the rear of the property? Over. 550 00:27:26,167 --> 00:27:27,267 174: Looking into it now. Over. 551 00:27:27,367 --> 00:27:28,400 QL: OK, thanks. 552 00:27:37,100 --> 00:27:38,067 HOWARD: Upstairs, I think. 553 00:27:51,667 --> 00:27:52,667 QL: 3-4-2. 3-4-2. 554 00:27:52,767 --> 00:27:53,600 Quebec Lima. 555 00:27:53,700 --> 00:27:54,967 Over. 556 00:27:55,067 --> 00:27:55,933 342: 3-4-2. 557 00:27:56,033 --> 00:27:57,467 Over. QL: Where are you? 558 00:27:57,567 --> 00:27:58,267 Over. 559 00:27:58,367 --> 00:27:59,867 342: first floor. 560 00:27:59,967 --> 00:28:00,800 Over. 561 00:28:02,233 --> 00:28:03,900 QL: Can you meet DC Kavinsky by the back door? 562 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:04,933 He's got a message for you. 563 00:28:12,033 --> 00:28:13,967 You didn't know she works as a prostitute? 564 00:28:14,067 --> 00:28:15,433 I had to work that out. 565 00:28:15,533 --> 00:28:16,733 Hmm. 566 00:28:16,833 --> 00:28:17,633 Clothes. 567 00:28:57,900 --> 00:28:58,700 No. 568 00:28:58,800 --> 00:28:59,633 There's nothing in here. 569 00:29:19,833 --> 00:29:22,867 MAY: We thought you'd already searched in here. 570 00:29:22,967 --> 00:29:24,567 Oh, we're not police. 571 00:29:24,667 --> 00:29:25,933 Who the fuck are you then? 572 00:29:26,033 --> 00:29:27,433 HOWARD: I'm your dad's solicitor. 573 00:29:27,533 --> 00:29:28,867 Well, who's this? 574 00:29:28,967 --> 00:29:30,200 Janet Leach. 575 00:29:30,300 --> 00:29:32,633 I'm acting as your father's Appropriate Adult. 576 00:29:32,733 --> 00:29:33,900 His what? 577 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:35,967 I've been asked to help him, and we've been sent 578 00:29:36,067 --> 00:29:36,967 to pick up some clean clothes. 579 00:29:37,067 --> 00:29:38,067 So where is dad? 580 00:29:38,167 --> 00:29:40,067 Because no one's told us anything. 581 00:29:40,167 --> 00:29:41,800 Gloucester Police Station. 582 00:29:41,900 --> 00:29:44,600 I'm afraid he's been arrested on suspicion of murder. 583 00:29:44,700 --> 00:29:46,000 Murder of who? 584 00:29:46,100 --> 00:29:47,867 If there's murder gone on, it will be mum, not dad. 585 00:29:47,967 --> 00:29:49,067 Don't say that about mum! 586 00:29:49,167 --> 00:29:50,467 I'll say the fuck what I like! 587 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,633 Don't listen to him. 588 00:29:56,733 --> 00:29:58,433 Mum's all right. 589 00:29:58,533 --> 00:30:00,733 Dad's the one. 590 00:30:00,833 --> 00:30:05,667 Tell mum I hope she's all right, and we want her home. 591 00:30:05,767 --> 00:30:06,700 Please, will you do that for me? 592 00:30:31,433 --> 00:30:32,367 Mrs. West? 593 00:30:32,467 --> 00:30:33,733 Jesus. 594 00:30:33,833 --> 00:30:36,267 You. 595 00:30:36,367 --> 00:30:39,367 HOWARD: This lady's brought you some of your clothes. 596 00:30:39,467 --> 00:30:41,767 What? 597 00:30:41,867 --> 00:30:42,933 You been to my house? 598 00:30:43,033 --> 00:30:44,067 Rooting round in my things? 599 00:30:44,167 --> 00:30:45,033 JANET: The police asked me-- 600 00:30:45,133 --> 00:30:47,533 Fucking cheek! 601 00:30:47,633 --> 00:30:49,333 JANET: We-- We were just quickly in and out. 602 00:30:49,433 --> 00:30:51,233 And we saw Steven and May. 603 00:30:51,333 --> 00:30:54,433 And May said that she hoped you were all right. 604 00:30:54,533 --> 00:30:55,500 By what right? 605 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,433 By what right-- you nosy fucking bitch-- 606 00:30:57,533 --> 00:31:00,267 do you go into my house, and speak to my children, and poke 607 00:31:00,367 --> 00:31:01,567 about among my private things? 608 00:31:01,667 --> 00:31:02,467 Rose. 609 00:31:02,567 --> 00:31:03,500 Jesus Christ! 610 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:04,433 Rose! 611 00:31:04,533 --> 00:31:05,600 Calm down. 612 00:31:05,700 --> 00:31:07,367 Who are you, anyway? 613 00:31:07,467 --> 00:31:08,433 Who are you? 614 00:31:08,533 --> 00:31:09,833 DS BENNETT: She's helping us, Mrs. West. 615 00:31:09,933 --> 00:31:12,733 She got no right touching my clothing! 616 00:31:12,833 --> 00:31:14,367 And you got no right arresting me! 617 00:31:14,467 --> 00:31:15,800 All we want is to get to the truth. 618 00:31:15,900 --> 00:31:17,267 No it ain't. 619 00:31:17,367 --> 00:31:19,400 What you want is for me to say Fred killed our Heather, 620 00:31:19,500 --> 00:31:20,867 and I helped him. - Did you? 621 00:31:20,967 --> 00:31:21,800 No! I did not! 622 00:31:21,900 --> 00:31:24,267 How many fucking times? 623 00:31:24,367 --> 00:31:26,967 You got nothing on me, and you know it. 624 00:31:27,067 --> 00:31:28,333 Take her back to the cells, please. 625 00:31:31,967 --> 00:31:33,167 POLICE OFFICER 3: Come on. 626 00:31:33,267 --> 00:31:35,000 Don't-- touch me. 627 00:31:42,500 --> 00:31:45,900 Oh, what are you so fucking scared of you little mouse? 628 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:47,333 Little mousy mouse. 629 00:31:47,433 --> 00:31:50,933 Wouldn't say "boo" to a fucking goose. 630 00:31:51,033 --> 00:31:52,667 Bet you're a dirty little lezzie, too. 631 00:31:52,767 --> 00:31:53,567 Mrs. West! 632 00:31:53,667 --> 00:31:54,500 POLICE OFFICER 3: Come on. 633 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,067 Don't do it. 634 00:31:56,167 --> 00:31:57,300 Mousy isn't she? 635 00:31:59,867 --> 00:32:01,600 I said don't touch me, didn't I? 636 00:32:01,700 --> 00:32:05,500 I told you not to touch me! 637 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,867 Get off! 638 00:32:07,967 --> 00:32:09,100 DS BENNETT: Sorry about that. 639 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:10,200 It's all right. 640 00:32:10,300 --> 00:32:11,733 HOWARD: Look, have a seat. 641 00:32:11,833 --> 00:32:12,800 I'll get you a glass of water. 642 00:32:19,467 --> 00:32:23,567 DS BENNETT: Occupational hazard, I'm afraid, that kind of abuse. 643 00:32:23,667 --> 00:32:25,633 It's not that. 644 00:32:25,733 --> 00:32:28,367 DS BENNETT: What is it then? 645 00:32:28,467 --> 00:32:30,033 Things have happened-- things have been said-- 646 00:32:30,133 --> 00:32:31,133 that I hadn't expected. 647 00:32:33,900 --> 00:32:34,800 What things? 648 00:32:42,300 --> 00:32:44,567 Has Fred said anything privately 649 00:32:44,667 --> 00:32:45,800 to you about any of this? 650 00:32:48,733 --> 00:32:49,633 I can't tell you. 651 00:32:49,733 --> 00:32:51,533 I-- I have a duty of confidence. 652 00:32:55,067 --> 00:32:56,600 Of course. 653 00:32:56,700 --> 00:32:59,233 But if he does try to give you information privately, 654 00:32:59,333 --> 00:33:01,467 you could advise him to speak to me. 655 00:33:01,567 --> 00:33:02,233 I know. 656 00:33:02,333 --> 00:33:03,333 I've done the training. 657 00:33:07,567 --> 00:33:09,100 You better get home. 658 00:33:34,100 --> 00:33:35,867 What are you doing? It's Sunday. 659 00:33:35,967 --> 00:33:37,167 JANET: I know. 660 00:33:37,267 --> 00:33:39,467 They need me to go in again. 661 00:33:39,567 --> 00:33:41,000 MIKE: What? 662 00:33:41,100 --> 00:33:43,033 The police. 663 00:33:43,133 --> 00:33:44,933 MIKE: Bloody hell, Janet. 664 00:33:53,733 --> 00:33:55,533 Hello? 665 00:33:55,633 --> 00:33:56,467 Oh, yeah. 666 00:33:56,567 --> 00:33:57,200 Yeah. 667 00:33:57,300 --> 00:33:59,433 I'm just going in now. 668 00:33:59,533 --> 00:34:00,167 Coping? 669 00:34:00,267 --> 00:34:01,667 Course I'm coping. 670 00:34:01,767 --> 00:34:02,600 Who says I'm not? 671 00:34:06,067 --> 00:34:06,933 Pull out? 672 00:34:07,033 --> 00:34:08,033 No! 673 00:34:10,833 --> 00:34:13,433 So you're saying, if I carry on, you won't support me? 674 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:16,800 OK. 675 00:34:16,900 --> 00:34:17,733 Fine. 676 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:33,833 Excuse me. 677 00:34:33,933 --> 00:34:35,200 Can I ask? 678 00:34:35,300 --> 00:34:36,700 Have you said something to her? 679 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,100 What? 680 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,400 The organizer of the Appropriate Adult register? 681 00:34:40,500 --> 00:34:41,333 Yes. 682 00:34:41,433 --> 00:34:43,000 Yes, I have. 683 00:34:43,100 --> 00:34:45,367 Did you tell her that I wasn't up to this? 684 00:34:45,467 --> 00:34:46,400 No, I did not. 685 00:34:46,500 --> 00:34:47,800 Because she rang me, and she asked me 686 00:34:47,900 --> 00:34:49,133 if I wanted to pull out. 687 00:34:49,233 --> 00:34:50,367 Well, I explained it was a very 688 00:34:50,467 --> 00:34:52,367 difficult and distressing case. 689 00:34:52,467 --> 00:34:54,733 She's perfectly entitled to give you that opportunity. 690 00:34:54,833 --> 00:34:57,467 Well, I won't. 691 00:34:57,567 --> 00:35:00,433 Are you quite sure you still feel able to carry on? 692 00:35:00,533 --> 00:35:01,367 Yeah. 693 00:35:01,467 --> 00:35:02,867 Absolutely. 694 00:35:02,967 --> 00:35:03,800 Very well. 695 00:35:03,900 --> 00:35:05,367 HAZEL: Janet! 696 00:35:05,467 --> 00:35:07,233 There's been a development. 697 00:35:07,333 --> 00:35:08,600 What? 698 00:35:08,700 --> 00:35:10,933 Fred's indicated that there's another body in the garden. 699 00:35:11,033 --> 00:35:12,167 Who? 700 00:35:12,267 --> 00:35:14,067 Girl called Allison Chambers. 701 00:35:14,167 --> 00:35:15,367 I suspect he's told us because he thinks 702 00:35:15,467 --> 00:35:16,833 we'll find the body anyway. 703 00:35:16,933 --> 00:35:18,600 I want him to point out the grave. 704 00:35:18,700 --> 00:35:19,633 Can come to the house? 705 00:35:19,733 --> 00:35:20,633 Oh, yeah. 706 00:35:20,733 --> 00:35:21,600 Of course. 707 00:35:42,067 --> 00:35:43,933 So here, Fred. 708 00:35:44,033 --> 00:35:47,333 This here's where we found bones that you say 709 00:35:47,433 --> 00:35:50,767 may belong to Shirley Robinson. 710 00:35:50,867 --> 00:35:53,967 Where did you bury Allison Chambers? 711 00:35:54,067 --> 00:35:56,167 Well, now. 712 00:35:56,267 --> 00:35:57,467 Now you're asking? 713 00:35:57,567 --> 00:35:58,200 Yes. 714 00:35:58,300 --> 00:36:00,333 I am asking, Fred. 715 00:36:00,433 --> 00:36:01,333 Let me see. 716 00:36:22,467 --> 00:36:23,567 No. 717 00:36:23,667 --> 00:36:26,700 Don't think I can get it. 718 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:28,233 Hold on. Hold on. 719 00:36:28,333 --> 00:36:29,133 Hold on. 720 00:36:31,133 --> 00:36:32,133 I'm picking something up. 721 00:36:42,467 --> 00:36:43,300 Yeah. 722 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:44,067 That's her. 723 00:36:44,167 --> 00:36:46,000 HAZEL: Allison? 724 00:36:46,100 --> 00:36:47,100 Yeah. 725 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,333 She's trying to tell me something. 726 00:36:49,433 --> 00:36:52,767 What's she trying to tell you, Fred? 727 00:36:52,867 --> 00:36:56,933 Where she is, but I don't think I can understand 728 00:36:57,033 --> 00:36:58,000 what she's trying to-- 729 00:37:00,967 --> 00:37:01,867 Yeah. Hold on. 730 00:37:01,967 --> 00:37:02,767 Hold on. 731 00:37:02,867 --> 00:37:22,000 Um-- Yeah. 732 00:37:22,100 --> 00:37:24,133 Try there. 733 00:37:24,233 --> 00:37:25,067 Now that's your lot. 734 00:37:25,167 --> 00:37:28,133 You'll find no more. 735 00:37:28,233 --> 00:37:33,367 What about Rena? 736 00:37:33,467 --> 00:37:34,633 Rena? 737 00:37:34,733 --> 00:37:36,800 Your first wife. 738 00:37:36,900 --> 00:37:40,800 And what about Charmaine? 739 00:37:40,900 --> 00:37:42,033 Charmaine? 740 00:37:42,133 --> 00:37:44,167 HAZEL: Why are you looking at me like that? 741 00:37:44,267 --> 00:37:48,400 Rena had a daughter, Charmaine, who became your step-daughter. 742 00:37:48,500 --> 00:37:50,167 Where are they? 743 00:37:50,267 --> 00:37:51,167 Well, you lose track-- 744 00:37:51,267 --> 00:37:52,300 You lose track of people. 745 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:53,400 Don't you? 746 00:37:53,500 --> 00:37:54,767 Well, you said you lost track of Heather. 747 00:37:54,867 --> 00:37:58,200 But you killed her and buried her in this garden. 748 00:37:58,300 --> 00:38:01,400 And you did the same to Shirley Robinson and Allison Chambers. 749 00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:03,867 You won't find Rena and Charmaine here. 750 00:38:03,967 --> 00:38:06,467 And that I swear. 751 00:38:06,567 --> 00:38:08,167 And even if you don't believe me, 752 00:38:08,267 --> 00:38:10,333 I know the Appropriate Adult does, because she understands 753 00:38:10,433 --> 00:38:13,333 me in a way that you lot don't. 754 00:38:13,433 --> 00:38:15,900 Isn't that so? 755 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:17,067 How can I understand you? 756 00:38:17,167 --> 00:38:19,333 You've killed people. 757 00:38:19,433 --> 00:38:22,433 Because you're a woman who can see beneath the surface. 758 00:38:22,533 --> 00:38:27,067 And a woman who knows remorse when she sees it. 759 00:38:27,167 --> 00:38:30,833 Unlike you lot. 760 00:38:30,933 --> 00:38:32,833 ANCHORWOMAN ON NEWS: Police have found two more bodies 761 00:38:32,933 --> 00:38:34,267 in the garden in Gloucester, where 762 00:38:34,367 --> 00:38:36,367 the remains of the missing schoolgirl Heather West 763 00:38:36,467 --> 00:38:37,933 were discovered on Saturday. 764 00:38:38,033 --> 00:38:40,233 Her father is charged with her murder. 765 00:38:40,333 --> 00:38:42,167 Two new bodies are thought to be of adults, 766 00:38:42,267 --> 00:38:44,700 but police say identification will be difficult. 767 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:46,767 They're checking registers of missing people. 768 00:38:46,867 --> 00:38:50,267 Our West of England reporter, Steve Scott, has the details. 769 00:38:50,367 --> 00:38:51,333 Can I use that table? 770 00:38:51,433 --> 00:38:53,633 I can't concentrate in there. 771 00:38:53,733 --> 00:38:55,333 MIKE: Oh, yeah. 772 00:38:55,433 --> 00:38:59,133 REPORTER ON TV: -- biggest ever criminal investigation. 773 00:38:59,233 --> 00:39:00,500 Is this the thing you're involved with? 774 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,100 REPORTER ON TV: -- forensic teams have unearthed 775 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,100 three sets of human remains. 776 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:06,833 They have spend several nights-- - It is. 777 00:39:06,933 --> 00:39:08,067 Isn't it? 778 00:39:08,167 --> 00:39:09,033 REPORTER ON TV: -- underneath the patio, 779 00:39:09,133 --> 00:39:10,167 which covered the garden. 780 00:39:10,267 --> 00:39:12,667 It obviously is, Josh. 781 00:39:12,767 --> 00:39:15,867 She can't talk about it. 782 00:39:15,967 --> 00:39:17,467 JOSH: Do you think there are more bodies? 783 00:39:17,567 --> 00:39:19,433 MIKE: I bet there are more, though. 784 00:39:19,533 --> 00:39:20,800 Most people do. 785 00:39:20,900 --> 00:39:22,733 REPORTER ON TV: Police have also confirmed the man's wife has 786 00:39:22,833 --> 00:39:24,967 been released without charge. 787 00:39:25,067 --> 00:39:26,800 Indications are that the police operation 788 00:39:26,900 --> 00:39:31,133 at 25 Cromwell Street, could go on for many more days yet. 789 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:40,533 HAZEL: Jackie will show you out. 790 00:39:40,633 --> 00:39:42,833 I know this is distressing, but that information 791 00:39:42,933 --> 00:39:44,033 could be very useful. 792 00:39:48,333 --> 00:39:50,667 We'll be in touch if we have any news at all. 793 00:39:54,033 --> 00:39:54,933 Ready for another session? 794 00:39:55,033 --> 00:39:55,900 Yeah. 795 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:57,767 Who was that? 796 00:39:57,867 --> 00:39:59,100 Mr. and Mrs. Goff. 797 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,033 Gloucester couple whose daughter lodged 798 00:40:01,133 --> 00:40:02,567 with the Wests 20 years ago. 799 00:40:02,667 --> 00:40:04,867 We found some belongings in the house, we think may be hers. 800 00:40:04,967 --> 00:40:07,267 You think she could be another victim? 801 00:40:07,367 --> 00:40:08,767 Yep. 802 00:40:08,867 --> 00:40:09,667 God. 803 00:40:09,767 --> 00:40:10,933 Where's this going to end? 804 00:40:11,033 --> 00:40:12,233 There are three bodies, and that's it. 805 00:40:12,333 --> 00:40:13,733 Now, I said I'm willing to sort all that out. 806 00:40:13,833 --> 00:40:15,533 And I know that means I'll never be going home again. 807 00:40:15,633 --> 00:40:18,433 But I want my garden reinstated, and I want Rose and the kids 808 00:40:18,533 --> 00:40:19,267 back home. 809 00:40:19,367 --> 00:40:20,367 HAZEL: She can't go back home. 810 00:40:20,467 --> 00:40:21,133 Why not? 811 00:40:21,233 --> 00:40:22,400 You've released Rose. 812 00:40:22,500 --> 00:40:23,767 She's in a Safe House with May and Steven. 813 00:40:23,867 --> 00:40:25,000 The younger kids are still in care. 814 00:40:25,100 --> 00:40:26,967 We're still searching the property. 815 00:40:27,067 --> 00:40:29,133 And the fact that we've released Rose 816 00:40:29,233 --> 00:40:30,933 doesn't mean that we believe she's innocent. 817 00:40:31,033 --> 00:40:31,833 This is all wrong. 818 00:40:31,933 --> 00:40:32,767 See? 819 00:40:35,167 --> 00:40:37,000 Did Rose know about your relationship 820 00:40:37,100 --> 00:40:37,933 with Shirley Robinson. 821 00:40:38,033 --> 00:40:39,333 No, she didn't. 822 00:40:39,433 --> 00:40:41,067 HAZEL: Oh, Shirley was living under the same roof. 823 00:40:41,167 --> 00:40:42,433 She must have known she was pregnant. 824 00:40:42,533 --> 00:40:44,233 She didn't know I was the father. 825 00:40:44,333 --> 00:40:47,633 I suggest that she did. 826 00:40:47,733 --> 00:40:50,333 I suggest she was jealous. 827 00:40:50,433 --> 00:40:53,900 I suggest she helped you to kill her. 828 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:55,300 DC LAW: We found Shirley's body, Fred. 829 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:56,333 I know. 830 00:40:56,433 --> 00:40:57,733 It was me who showed you where it was. 831 00:40:57,833 --> 00:41:03,500 So can you explain why the baby wasn't inside her? 832 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,133 What? 833 00:41:05,233 --> 00:41:08,233 The baby has not been left intact in the abdomen. 834 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:27,733 I-- I need to take a break. 835 00:41:32,300 --> 00:41:34,500 DC LAW: The time is 11:45. 836 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,567 The interview has ended. 837 00:41:37,667 --> 00:41:38,967 Back in a minute, Fred. 838 00:41:39,067 --> 00:41:40,867 DC LAW: Can you sign this off, Mrs. Leach? 839 00:41:40,967 --> 00:41:42,800 HOWARD: I need to speak to you. 840 00:41:42,900 --> 00:41:44,500 HAZEL: Yes, Mr. Ogden, Of course. 841 00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,067 HOWARD: I need to see that report. 842 00:41:47,167 --> 00:41:48,933 HAZEL: I understand that. 843 00:41:49,033 --> 00:41:50,433 But if you want to see the report, 844 00:41:50,533 --> 00:41:51,967 you'll have to take it up with Detective Superintendant-- 845 00:41:52,067 --> 00:41:53,200 FRED: That would have been Rose. 846 00:41:55,967 --> 00:41:58,300 What would? 847 00:41:58,400 --> 00:41:59,467 The baby. 848 00:42:05,233 --> 00:42:06,867 Are you saying that Rose removed 849 00:42:06,967 --> 00:42:08,333 the baby from Shirley's womb? 850 00:42:11,367 --> 00:42:12,167 Oh, no. 851 00:42:12,267 --> 00:42:13,867 No. 852 00:42:13,967 --> 00:42:15,000 No. No. 853 00:42:15,100 --> 00:42:16,033 Rose is a mother. 854 00:42:16,133 --> 00:42:16,733 She'd never do a thing like that. 855 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:21,400 I can't do this. 856 00:42:24,267 --> 00:42:27,033 Don't go, please. 857 00:42:27,133 --> 00:42:28,233 Give me one good reason why I should 858 00:42:28,333 --> 00:42:30,033 stay and listen to this crap. 859 00:42:30,133 --> 00:42:31,767 I know you've suffered. 860 00:42:31,867 --> 00:42:33,033 What? 861 00:42:33,133 --> 00:42:34,167 You don't know anything about me. 862 00:42:34,267 --> 00:42:35,367 I can see it in your eyes. 863 00:42:35,467 --> 00:42:36,733 I know you've not always been properly 864 00:42:36,833 --> 00:42:38,167 loved and respected by men. 865 00:42:46,700 --> 00:42:47,533 I've had enough of this. 866 00:42:51,033 --> 00:42:53,300 You need to tell the police everything. 867 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,267 If you have killed and buried other women, they need to know. 868 00:42:56,367 --> 00:42:57,867 The girls' families need to know. 869 00:42:57,967 --> 00:43:00,100 I'm not admitting nothing else to Mr. Ogden or the police. 870 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,433 Then I am going, and I'll not be coming back. 871 00:43:02,533 --> 00:43:03,233 You can't leave! 872 00:43:03,333 --> 00:43:04,200 You're my Appropriate Adult! 873 00:43:04,300 --> 00:43:05,133 I don't give a shit. 874 00:43:05,233 --> 00:43:06,133 No, please! Please! 875 00:43:06,233 --> 00:43:08,067 Please, Janet! Please stay! 876 00:43:08,167 --> 00:43:09,500 You're the only one I can trust.