They're from the police. They need an appropriate adult.
- You're here to assist Mr West. - Rose...
- knew nothing about any of this. -I can't do this.
There's something I want to tell you.
She was involved.
Has Fred said anything to you privately about any of this?
I can't tell you. I owe a duty of confidence.
That's the plan we made and that plan is working, Anna.
Why did you just call me Anna?
- You can't just drop me without any explanation. - Yes, I can.
No, you can't, not now.
♪
Out you get.
All right. I'm coming out as quick as I can.
It was a long time ago and I don't know what you think I am, anyway.
What do you think I am? Eh?
I've got a fucking hairdresser's appointment this afternoon.
Don't pull me. Don't you fucking pull on my arm, girl,
or I'll pull on yours. I'll fucking break it for you if you want. Bitch!
Give us your full name.
I just need to take your details.
Yeah.
'I need an exact description of what she was wearing
'the last time you saw her.'
How old was she then?
And the exact date, please. Yeah.
When was the last time you saw her?
How could you have killed Charmaine if you were in prison, Mr West?
No comment.
And I'm DC Carl Kempinsky. Could I have your name, please?
That's a photograph of the remains of your daughter, Heather.
How do you feel when you look at it?
No comment.
Could you please confirm your name for the tape?
'Rose helped you kill Heather, didn't she?'
No comment.
It was thought that
a different team, different tactics
might speed things up a bit.
So you want me to resume as his appropriate adult?
Not because I want to do him any favours.
Sir...
Mrs Leach is back on board, sir.
Good. I appreciate it.
He's um... he's coming up from the cells now.
We're going to Kempley. We can't find Rena's remains.
Mrs Leach has agreed to resume as your appropriate adult.
Well, now, the day already looks a lot rosier.
Go ahead. Over.
We're on the way to Kempley, over.
You see all the work we've done here, Fred.
And we still haven't found any remains.
Rena's somewhere here. I'd put my shirt on it.
If Rena's here then why isn't Charmaine?
You killed them at the same time.
Charmaine was a child. It's very hard to talk about that.
We need you to do that, Fred. Tell us exactly what happened.
Are you going to answer the officer, Fred?
You'd split up with Rena, hadn't you?
You were living with Rose and Charmaine was with you.
Well, I arranged to meet Rena in the pub,
I got a drink in, got her absolutely paralytic and then...
drove out here and strangled her.
- Where was Charmaine? - Asleep in the car.
Rena had given her a lager or something
and I thought, what am I going to do? She's got no mum nor dad? Poor lamb.
Who's going to tell her that? So I strangled her
and drove her back to Midland Road and we sat outside the house a while,
Rose was in bed, then I hid Charmaine by the back wall of the house
thinking I'd bury her next day.
So, we need to start searching the Midland Road house as well?
Correct.
What is it, Fred?
Why are you looking over there?
- There's something pulling me there. - What is it?
- Anna. - Is this Anna McFall, Fred?
Anna, who used to look after your children when you were with Rena?
I can feel her now. She's calling to me.
I've got to remind you, Fred, that you're still under caution.
You don't have to say anything unless you wish to do so
but what you do say may be given in evidence.
I can feel her presence now.
It's like she's standing beside me.
Did you murder Anna, Fred?
Did you bury her here?
You all right, Fred?
I didn't kill Anna.
You believe me, Janet?
Anna had my baby.
How could I kill the greatest love of my life
with my baby inside her?
Janet. Janet. Janet. What's your involvement in all of this?
I've got nothing to say.
What is the work that you're doing with the police, Janet?
Can't you see the woman's just trying to get home?
Thank you.
Just a quick quote...
- Hi, Mum. - Hi, Mum.
Hi. How's things?
Yeah, great fun living in the middle of a siege!
I'm really sorry about that.
So why are you doing it again?
Tell them to stick it.
Hello?
Oh, hi, Hazel.
What, now?
All right.
Don't, Josh.
Mrs Leach, I'll come down with you.
No, it's all right.
- She's seems nice. - She's a nice lady.
Oh, Janet.
I just wanted to say...
I hope I didn't upset you today.
I thought I'd frightened you off.
What are you doing?
- I can't get through this without you. - Get off of me.
That is completely out of order.
Sorry, Janet.
It won't happen again, I swear it.
It's just that this...
this business about Anna's really upset me and...
You see, Anna was more important to me than anyone in the world
and I truly did feel her in that field.
I can feel her with me now because you're here.
She's guiding me through you.
- I don't know what you're talking about. - You would.
If you saw Anna, you'd understand.
I'm sorry about that. He was insistent he wanted to see you.
He just needed reassuring that I wasn't going to quit.
Good.
- Can I ask? - Yeah.
Anna McFall, who exactly was she?
Basically, she was a 17-year-old girl.
When Fred was with Rena she used to look out of their children.
She developed some kind of infatuation with Fred
which led to an affair, Anna got pregnant,
wanted Fred to leave Rena, shortly after that she went missing.
This was August, 1967.
We released a picture of her earlier.
Night.
We're now applying for a warrant to search the area
where you indicated Anna McFall might be.
- I'd say that would be wise. - Did you kill her, Fred?
I'd sooner stab myself in the heart with a dagger.
If you didn't, who did?
If it'd be anyone, it'd be Rena.
Why Rena?
When Rena found out about Anna, she couldn't bear it,
but Anna refused to give me up.
You enjoy having two women fighting over you?
Well, I've learned to live with women competing over my affections.
You enjoyed being part of a love triangle?
Was that how it sometimes was with Rose?
If you want me to say my loving wife ever hurt anyone...
You just said your previous wife did.
This is a trap. Did you see that, Janet?
The police are just asking questions. And you need to answer them honestly.
- And I am. Rose is not a murderer. - I just don't believe you, Fred.
- I think Rose killed Charmaine. - That's up to you.
We're asking Rose the same questions and if there's any discrepancy...
They'll be no discrepancy, cos she'll tell you absolutely nothing.
How do you know?
Did she tell you that's what she would do?
All I know is you'll never wear Rose down.
She's not afraid of you lot. You lot should be afraid of her.
- Why? - On account of the fact some of your lot were using her services.
You with me, Janet?
There was coppers paying Rose for sex.
- Where's your evidence? - Rose has got the evidence.
If there were such evidence, Fred,
we wouldn't allow that to inhibit our investigation.
You're grinning again, adopting that cocky tone. Do you agree, Janet?
Yes, I do. I think it's most regrettable.
I think you should take this very seriously.
Don't you start being harsh with me, Janet.
I'm just telling you the truth.
You see, I don't believe you about Charmaine. Nor do I believe
that you could conduct sexual relationships with young women,
kill, dismember and bury them in the house
you share with Rose without her knowing.
What you believe don't matter, it's what you can prove matters.
Take Lynda Gough for instance. Her parents believe Lynda became very friendly
- with Rose when she lodged with you. - Rose looked after her. That's Rose.
When Lynda disappeared and her parents called at your house to ask
if you knew where she was, why was Rose wearing her cardigan?
Well, Lynda must've left it behind. We told them that.
I think that's nonsense.
I think that you and Rose manipulated
and coerced young women into
- sexual activities... - I've admitted with broad-minded people.
Activities which became sado-masochistic in nature.
We know your taste in pornography, what Rose did with her clients.
- Now you're putting two and two together to make five. - I suggest
that you and Rose took those acts
much further than those girls could possibly have imagined.
There was a beam in the cellar, ropes, rolls of tape,
a surgical mask, other instruments of torture.
I suggest that you suspended them from that beam...
- Janet, tell her to stop it. - ...You bound and gagged them.
Janet, you're my friend.
- You watched Rose... - Just be honest Fred.
...do unspeakable agonies until they eventually died
and you just stood back and watched for your own sexual gratification
and when Rose had finished with them, you dismembered their bodies
and buried them with her full knowledge.
I suggest that the two of you did
similar things to your daughter, Heather, and to Charmaine.
Rose is innocent.
I ain't got nothing more to say.
Interview was terminated at 15:54.
A word, please, DC Savage.
Rose has been charged with the murder of Lynda Gough.
I don't believe you.
Well, that's up to you but it's a fact.
She wouldn't admit nothing. And you ain't got no evidence.
Oh, I believe we have enough.
I need Rose back in the house,
I need our house put back together.
And our family put back together!
I don't think that's going to happen Fred.
Janet help me.
Help me take care of my family.
- Get off her. - Don't let them. Please don't let them.
- Don't let them! - Fred, calm down! Come on.
- Are you OK? - Have you really got evidence?
Detective Superintendent Bennett feels we've got all we will get.
He's bringing these interviews to a close.
Your part in this is over.
Thank you.
"Rosemary West, the wife of the Gloucester builder Frederick West,
"appeared in court today charged jointly with him
"of murdering 19-year-old
"She's jointly accused with husband Frederick of killing
"Lucy Partington and Carol Ann Cooper.
"Both their bodies were found in the cellar. Hidden under a blanket,
"Rosemary West is led into court to face a fresh murder charge.
"She's jointly accused of killing
"21-year-old Swiss student Therese Siegenthaler
"who vanished..."
"Led to the discovery at Cromwell Street of the body of 18-year-old
"Juanita Mott. She disappeared in 1975."
"The wife of Gloucester builder Frederick West has been charged
"with murdering her daughter, Heather.
"The teenager's remains were among those found at the Wests' home..."
"She said nothing in the 3-minute hearing, listened then nodded
"as the two new charges were put to her."
"Police identified the remains as Lynda Gough,
"found under the ground floor bathroom.
"The next day the search unearthed the remains of Carol Cooper,
"again in the basement.
"Even as the last of the nine victims
"was discovered, the search team..."
- So which one's Lucy? - That one.
- And which one's Max? - That one.
I just wanted to say sorry.
Why?
For saying you shouldn't have done it.
I saw her on the telly.
They've both been sent for trial.
You can forget it now.
Move on, yeah?
Are you ready to go?
Come on, Mum!
- You all right? - Yeah.
I can't do this any more.
We're out of sausages. Fridge is full of them. And rolls.
All right, I'll go.
Oh, Mum! Don't leave!
Back in a minute.
Go and play football.
Come on, Mum!
- Hello. - "Janet, it's me.
How are you?"
I'm fine.
"I'm relieved to hear your voice."
Where are you calling from?
*** Winson Green Prision
How do yo get this number?
Talk to the screws nicely, they can get anything.
You see, I need your help, Janet.
"What do you mean?"
I can't discuss it over the phone, can you come and see me?
"No."
Fred, my involvement with you is over, I've...
I've gone back to normal family life.
"That's grand, that's lovely, I mean.
"Please give me this one bit of help, I'd be so grateful."
I need you, Janet, please.
- Right, I'm off. - Right, love, bye.
- See ya. - See ya.
- I might be late tonight. If Mike's not back, can you sort tea? - God!
No problem. I'll be back.
- Anything special? - No, it's just a late lecture.
See you.
- Janet. - All right?
You sit here.
Thanks.
- You can't divorce me. - What?
We haven't even got round to getting married yet.
So, how come you need a lawyer?
I'm doing it for Fred West.
How come?
He asked me to.
- You've been to see him? - Yeah, at his request.
I can't believe it.
- It was a practical matter... - And you agreed. - ... he needed help with.
You must be mad.
You're only finding him a solicitor?
Yeah.
Although...
What?
I get the feeling that there's more that he wants to tell me.
About what?
About what he did, what Rose did.
Such as?
I don't know, Mike,
and if I did I wouldn't want to talk to you about it.
Our life got in such a terrible mess before because of him
- so if you don't want me to do this... - No, no, no.
I'm fine. I'm taking my medication.
So long as you're OK with it.
♪
Yes, please.
I saw they found Anna.
I know.
My worst fear's confirmed.
The memories...
Memories of her keep flooding back.
Walking down the river in the moonlight,
the smell of her hair, her laughter.
Making love on the blanket under the old oak tree.
Who killed her, Fred?
I think it was Rena.
How did you know where she was buried?
Because I heard her calling to me, Janet.
Do you really expect me to believe that?
Life's full of such wonders and mysteries, Janet.
It's a wonder you came into my life.
An even bigger wonder you're the image of my Anna.
- Did you ever see a picture of her? - Yeah.
I could no more hurt Anna than I could hurt you.
If you want the truth about Anna, and...
my whole life, I've...
I've written it down.
Look.
"I was loved..."
By an angel.
My Anna was an angel.
You've written "angle".
In fact, half of this is all misspelt.
Well, I know I was... I left school at 14, so I...
But you could help me Janet,
you can help me write the true story of my life.
Then you'd know everything, wouldn't you?
When this is over
I want you to tell the world what really happened.
The truth needs to come out.
"Dear Janet, my book is coming along well thanks to your help.
"I'm looking forward to seeing you again
"so you can read more about Anna."
"Dear Fred, I hope to be able
"to get up to Birmingham again early next month.
"I've brought you some T-shirts, as you asked,
"and I'm really looking forward to reading the next part of your book."
"Dear Janet, the more I write my book the more I think about Anna
"and the more I think about her, the more I know she was the one.
"When I fell in love with Rose, it was the Anna in Rose that I saw."
Only one L in "peaceful".
"But you too are my guide, Janet, for I see Anna in you too but"
"I cannot see her in Rose no more
"as she do not even answer my letters.
"It's hard for me to face this but I have realised
"that Rose loved Rose and no-one else and so as Anna is dead
"I am left with only you, Janet,
"as a true soul mate,
"but it is a good job Rose do not know of how close we have become
"as she would be very jealous."
Hi.
- You all right? - Yeah.
- Another? - Yeah. Proper little pen pal he's becoming.
Is he telling you stuff, like you hoped?
There's nothing concrete, but... the more I open
the lines of communication the more likely I think he will.
I've thought of a way you could get out help with this.
What?
A journalist.
The Irish guy, the one you said seemed all right.
- I spoke to him. - What?
He's the Mirror crime reporter.
I don't want to talk to any journalists, Mike.
I bet he'll have information that can help you.
These guys have all kinds of sources.
- Mike? - Yeah. Good to meet you.
Janet.
Hi.
I think there are more bodies.
- What makes you say that? - I'm hearing there were
ten murders between 1971 and 1979
and he had only one between 1979 and 1994.
That's fifteen years. Only one murder?
Do you believe that?
Then there's who did the killing.
Fred, and in some cases, with Rose's help.
You know Fred has a younger brother called John?
Yeah.
Have the police mentioned to you anything about a so-called cult?
Fred, Rose, John, with others possibly.
Ritual killing of maybe twenty children
whose names we don't even know yet.
- Oh, my God! - It could be just a rumour,
but knowing Fred, would you really rule it out?
And if there are more bodies,
surely they have to be found.
- Are you still in touch with him? - Yeah.
Hoping to get him to make further admissions?
Not least about Rose, he's confident she's going to get off.
- You're not working with the police any more? - No.
I'd be glad to work with you.
Glad to pass you any information
that comes my way in case it helps.
And, of course, we could pay a token amount up front.
But we wouldn't print the story until after Fred and Rose have been tried.
We won't do anything which might prejudice the trial.
And after the trial there could be a substantial amount.
I think you should do it, love.
And won't it jeopardise the court case?
Not if you don't have to give evidence.
I'd be on me bike outside the chippy, girls looking at me all sulky, like.
"Coming on the back, love?" As often as not, they did.
King of Ledbury, I was. It was the quiff that did it, Janet.
Never quite the same since the accident.
- Accident? - Yeah. I come off my bike one night.
Bust me head real bad.
The doctor pronounced me dead.
Woke up on the bloody mortuary slab.
Here... feel the scar.
Go on.
Oh, I've got a present for you.
- Bambi. - Is that it?
- That's my favourite ever. - Yeah, you said.
- Have you seen it? - Yeah.
It breaks my heart, that.
And the ******** most is
when Bambi's wandering through the woods and the...
snow's coming down and he's calling for his mother.
You remember?
Yeah.
When a youngster calls for their mum and their mum don't come, Janet...
And then Bambi's dad says
"Your mother can't be with you any more."
I ain't going there with them.
You ain't going where?
The barn.
What?
Who was in the barn?
Rose?
Your brother, John?
Are you saying they took children in there?
What happened?
They hung 'em from the beam.
I used to go out by the sub station, but I could still hear their cries.
If I covered my eyes, I could still hear them now.
I can't get it out of my head.
I mean, he's told me horrific things in the past but nothing like this.
I don't know what to do with it.
I can't sleep and I can't talk to Mike about it.
Well, you can talk about it to me all you like, love.
I know, I know, but
I still can't get rid of the pictures.
It's the sounds, the cries of children,
I've got children, Sid, and however hard I try...
- Janet, listen. -... I can't stop thinking about somebody
- doing those things to them. - Then stop.
For your own peace of mind, stop.
I can't.
How many more dead are there that we don't even know about?
Five?
Ten?
I need to know, Fred.
Twenty
At least.
And you will know about them all, Janet, one day, I swear.
You won't be left with unanswered questions, as I've been.
What unanswered questions?
About who killed Anna.
If you ever find that out, Janet,
that it was Rena, or whoever, come to my resting place and tell me,
and then I shall have some peace.
But I want to help give you peace too, Janet.
- Then help me. - Oh, I'm trying.
My head's all muddled by all the distress that Rose
- is causing me. - Rose isn't even here.
Yeah, but she's in here, she's in here.
When we were first together, I was in charge, but...
she takes pleasure in making me feel small.
She thinks she has power over me even now but she doesn't.
Then make that clear to her.
How?
She won't answer my letters and when we're in court
for the remand hearing she looks...
Looks me like I'm not even in the same room.
Then treat her the same way.
What d'you mean?
The next time you're together in court,
just ignore her.
Make her feel the way that she makes you feel.
You have to make the final break with her, however painful.
I don't think I've got the strength.
Unless...
Unless what?
Unless you were there.
See, if you were there Anna would be there
and Anna would give me the strength to...
show Rose I don't need her any more.
You see that?
-You look great. - Thanks.
You're sure you don't want me to come with you?
Yeah, positive. Thanks.
Where does this case stand?
Ma'am, the matter's being dealt with by Gloucestershire Constabulary.
We anticipate there may be further charges. We request
the defendants are held for another four weeks
for a committable bundle to be gathered.
Thank you.
Do you have any representations to make on behalf of Mr West, Mr Miles?
No, Ma'am.
- And on behalf of Rosemary West? - No, Ma'am.
You're both remanded in custody whilst the Prosecution
continues to put together its committal papers.
A provisional date for the committal hearing has been set
at 6th February. You will return to court then.
Do you understand?
Yes, Ma'am.
Mrs West?
Take them down.
Rose...
Rose, please. Rose.
They're model planes. They're war planes.
Right, they're ready.
- Oh, that's mine! - Hey, leave them a minute, they're hot.
Hey!
Hi, my name's Janet Leach.
I've got a call booked with a prisoner at 4 o'clock.
Frederick West.
Thanks, Mum. These are well good.
- Yeah, they're very nice. - Thanks, Mum.
"Janet?
"How are you?"
Fine thanks.
"I've not seen you in a while."
No, well, it's been a bit difficult with my college work and everything.
"Did you get that visiting order?"
Yeah, but I rang to say I can't make it.
Oh, I see.
Well, when can you make it?
Well, as long as it's not because you're angry with me.
After what happened in court,
I thought maybe you thought I'd let you down.
If you let anyone down, Fred, it was yourself.
"Or made you feel like you were second best.
"You see, I meant what I said about Anna being the one
"and that I see her more in you than I do in Rose."
Fred, I don't give a damn about where you see Anna.
"Ah, but you do. I can tell and... and believe me,
"nothing's changed in my feelings for you.
"It's just that I had to give Rose one last chance to show she loved me.
"D'you see?"
I really think we can move things on in the New Year.
It's my go.
Why do you want my go?
"That your kids I can hear?"
Yeah.
Well, save a place for me at the Christmas dinner table, eh?
You so nearly got away with it!
"In Australia, thousands welcomed the spectacular..."
My go.
Ten, ten, ten, ten.
Hello?
Yeah, yeah, I am.
******
He's hung himself.
Made a rope out of his bed linen, apparently.
Obviously planned it carefully.
Seems you were due to visit him?
Yeah, um, he wanted me to visit before Christmas
but it wasn't possible.
Do you think that might be anything to do with it?
Are you saying that's why he killed himself,
that this is my fault?
You were playing with fire, Mrs Leach, I tried to warn you.
The fact is it will now be very difficult to convict Rose West because
the one person who could tell us what she's done is dead.
What's more, his death means any obligation of confidentiality
that you had about conversations with Fred is gone.
Now you must tell me everything and I mean everything
that he ever said to you.
What did he tell you about the barn?
Um...
only fragments.
He spoke about standing outside and hearing the cries of children.
And did he say that Rose was there?
I asked him about Rose being inside
and about his brother, John, too,
but he never really gave a clear answer.
Well, we're aware of the barn stories.
We'll continue to look into it, John West is still under investigation,
but Rose West won't be convicted on rumour.
I need evidence.
We found the remains of Therese Siegenthaler under the cellar floor.
Did he speak to you privatly about her?
I only heard what he said in police interviews.
Shirley Hubbard?
The same. Only what he said in the interviews.
We believe that Fred left her with Rose for the day,
that Rose used various instruments to torture and sexually violate
the girl before Fred came home and jointly they murdered her.
Did he discuss that privately with you?
No.
But he told you Rose was involved in some of the murders?
Yeah, and...
how cold-hearted and cruel she could be.
But it's detail I need
if we're to make the charges stick.
I know and I'm trying to give you all the detail that I can remember.
Anna McFall.
Yeah, he often spoke about Anna to me.
You helped him write this, I believe.
Yeah.
- So you've read it, then? - Only bits of it.
And I was hoping there'd be detail in there that would help.
Sentimental trash, it's bullshit, he never loved her.
He never had any real feelings for her at all.
He just used, abused and killed her.
- He always denied killing Anna. - Well of course he did.
Wraped in the picnic blanket that used to have sex on she was, and
he'd taken their baby from her womb.
You look upset.
- I should read this before you shed too many tears. - What is it?
A copy of a letter to Rose we found in his cell.
"Keep your promises to me.
"You know what they are.
"I have no present, all I have is my life.
"I will give it to you, my darling.
"When you are ready to come to me I will be waiting for you."
His death was a last gift to Rose.
Or a way of cursing the rest of her life for rejecting him.
Either way, you were utterly irrelevant to him.
Janet.
It's half-eight.
I'm not going to college today, I don't feel very well.
All right.
What about the kids? Do you want me to drop them at school?
Yeah.
Right.
Andy, Chris, Jade, get your bags.
Come on.
Right, get in.
Janet.
What are you doing?
What the hell are you playing at?
I don't... I don't know if I was going to do it.
Yeah, well, that's what it looks like to me.
Why?
Christ. What were you thinking?
- I don't know, I just... - Just what? What? What? What?
You just what?
You miss him, don't you?
I didn't say that.
Yeah, yeah, Christ, I can see it, you do.
Look at me.
You miss Fred West?
I miss...
I miss feeling that I mattered and...
I miss feeling that I was needed.
What, and you think I don't need you? Your kids don't?
Of course you do but it's just not in the same way.
Have you... have you any idea how hurtful that is?
I'm sorry Mike.
I'm sorry.
I really am sorry, but I just... I don't know how
- I can explain it to you. - No, no, no, no, don't worry.
Look...
I don't care
how desperate you get, how despondent and miserable
you are for the rest of your life.
You cannot do this to your children.
It's all right.
I'm so sorry.
It's all right.
Come on.
Jurors in the Rosemary West murder trial heard for the first time today
the voice of her husband Fred in tapes of police interviews.
On them, the court heard him say he was responsible for all the murders.
Rosemary was not. He said he'd killed most victims
because he was afraid to tell his wife he has affairs.
The Prosecution say he was protecting someone. Robert Hall reports
from Winchester Crown Court.
"Rosemary West has always maintained she knew nothing..."
- Janet Leach? - Yeah.
I've been asked to deliver this to you.
What is it?
Your subpoena to give evidence at Rosemary West's trial
at Winchester Crown Court.
"Rose didn't kill no-one.
"I killed Charmaine
"when I came out of prison
"the last time, Rose had no part in this."
'Why are they calling me as a witness?'
Rose West's lawyers asked for interview tapes to be played.
It means the Prosecution can put Janet in the stand
and ask her about them.
That's good thing.
So she can tell them what Fred said about Rose on the tapes,
the truth was different.
I'm afraid I can't comment on what Counsel may ask you.
- But there are other witnesses? - Of course.
Including surviving victims who've describe how Rose
helped Fred rape and abuse them.
But only you can comment on the truth of the tapes.
I just don't know if I can do it, go into a room and face that woman.
Place your hand on the Bible and repeat after me
I swear by Almighty God...
- that the evidence I shall give - that the evidence I shall give
shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Did Fred West ever mention a pact he'd made with Rose?
Yes, he did.
Um...
he said that
shortly before his arrest
he and Rose had spoken and he agreed to take the blame for everything.
On the murder of Shirley Robinson, whose body was found in the garden
of 25 Cromwell Street, do you remember something said
in police interviews about the position of the baby
that she was pregnant with?
Yes.
That it wasn't found where they expected it to be.
What did Fred West tell you about that?
He said, "Rose would've done that."
And what did you think he meant by that?
That Rose must've been present at the murder
and that she removed the baby from Shirley's womb
before or after Shirley died.
When Fred West described what had happened to his victims
at Cromwell Street,
did he tell you that Rose West was present?
Yes, he did.
And what did he say happened?
He said that...
he might start things off but that Rose would take over.
He said she loved inflicting pain,
that there were times when he'd seen her
inflict the most terrible pain imaginable on young women.
And you were in no doubt that he was telling the truth?
None at all.
One final question, Mrs Leach.
The evidence of a number of potential witnesses in this case
has been compromised because they've made dealings with the press
for financial benefit.
Have you either spoken to the press or media
or been paid by them?
No, I haven't.
No more questions, My Lord.
The court will adjourn.
We will continue with your evidence after lunch, Mrs Leach.
All rise.
What did they say?
They don't care how long they have to wait. They...
They want you back in court.
The doctors have explained because you may have had a minor stroke
you can't go back until you feel ready.
I can't ever go back into that court, Mike.
- They're on to the Mirror thing. - You don't know that.
If they don't know now they'll find out.
Who's that from?
Hazel Savage.
That's the woman detective, the one who was good to you?
Yeah.
Who wanted more than anyone else to solve the case.
"Don't let the bastards grind you down."
She's right, isn't she?
What are you going to do?
Did you ever ask yourself, Mrs Leach,
whether some of things Fred West told you were far-fetched or
sheer fantasy?
And that even on those occasions when he appeared to be plausible
he was actually spinning a web of lies to draw you in?
I often asked myself that question.
And are you quite sure
he wasn't just using you?
Using me for what?
Using you as some kind of trophy
in order to try and make Rose jealous?
Why did you continue your relationship with Fred West
after your role as Appropriate Adult ended?
Well, I...
You visited him in prison regularly, did you not?
I believed that because I had his trust
I might eventually be able to persuade him to tell the full story.
And when you had that full story,
what did you intend to do with it?
What do you mean?
Did you think you might sell your version of it to the newspapers?
May I remind you you are on oath, Mrs Leach,
and that to lie on oath is to commit the serious crime of perjury.
Have you sold your story to a national newspaper?
Mrs Leach, you must answer the question.
Yes, I have.
- And was that newspaper the Daily Mirror? - Yes, it was.
So...
when Mr Leveson asked you whether you had entered into
an agreement with the media to tell your story,
you were lying?
Yes, I was.
You continued your relationship with Fred West for profit?
No, that's not fair.
You encouraged him to give the most lurid account possible
- because that would give you a better story. - No.
And you happily swallowed his lies about Rose West
because all you wanted was a story.
No, that's not true.
Was Fred West emotionally attached to you?
- Were you romantically involved with Fred West? - No.
- No more questions, Your Honour. - OK.
Mr Leveson.
Last lap Mrs Leach.
Mrs Leach?
You have told the court you belive you could assist the police investigation
by persuading Fred West to reveal
important information to the police.
Yes.
After you ceased to be his Appropriate Adult
and had begun to visit him in prison,
did you believe there was further information you might persuade him to reveal?
Yes, I did.
Could you tell the court what information that was?
Well...
Fred West told me there were at least 20 more victims.
- 20? - That's right.
And you believed him?
Yes, I did.
Did he go into detail about who these victims might be
or where their bodies might be found?
No, he didn't,
but I believed he was getting close to it.
All I wanted was for him to tell the truth,
because I'm a mother myself and...
I know that if my child went missing
I'd want to know the truth.
Members of the jury, you have heard the evidence.
You must now retire to consider your verdict.
'Will the foreman of the jury please stand?
'Have you reached a verdict upon which you are all agreed
'on all counts against the defendant, Rosemary West?'
'Yes.'
'On count one, do you find the defendant guilty or not guilty?'
'Guilty.'
'On count two, do you find the defendant guilty or not guilty?'
'Guilty.'
'On count three, do you find the defendant...'
'It's taken me ages but it fits Fred's description.'
Country lane, sub station,
and the map shows a barn up here.
But there's bad news too.
It's been demolished.
I reckon this really could be the place.
Then again, it might not be.
Why would he describe it in such detail?
Because he was a lying psychopath.
I'll never know the truth.
The thing is you can't un-know something, can you?
Once someone puts some terrible knowledge in your head
you're stuck with it forever, aren't you?
But you came through it.
You exposed yourself to all that poison and you came through.
Did I?
- Try and get it. - Oi, are you two in this game or not?
Come on, Mum.
Come on. Come on!
'I'll never stop thinking about them.
'About all the lost lives.
'And all the people who have to carry on
'after what this has done to them.'
♪
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