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(STATIC)

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(OVERLAPPING SOUNDTRACKS)

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NARRATOR: On September 2nd, 1945,

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in a quiet Melbourne suburb,

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the day a young couple has been
waiting for has finally arrived.

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Their first baby is on the way.

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At the same time, half a world away,

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a thin, proud man with a wispy beard
At the same time, half a world away,

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a thin, proud man with a wispy beard
steps up to a microphone.

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(CHEERING)

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The speakers crackle and hiss
as he stares out at the huge crowd

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who have gathered to hear him speak.

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(CRIES)

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While Robert Graham Perrin
comes into the world in Melbourne,

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While Robert Graham Perrin
in Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh

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in Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh

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proclaims the independent
in Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh

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proclaims the independent
Democratic Republic of Vietnam

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proclaims the independent
with some familiar words.

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with some familiar words.

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20 years later, Robert Perrin
will fall from a helicopter

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20 years later, Robert Perrin
to his death on the jungle floor,

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to his death on the jungle floor,

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a casualty in a war
that was born on his birthday.

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About 18.5 at the time.
And joined the army.

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About 18.5 at the time.
And don't regret a day of it.

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And don't regret a day of it.

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Nothing prepared any of us

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for the conditions
that we had to work and live in.

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for the conditions
Nothing.

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Nothing.

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And we only got 50m in
and the sky fell in.

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And we only got 50m in
I was mesmerised by the flutter...

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I was mesmerised by the flutter...

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..like confetti coming down over me.

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MAN: She said, "You shouldn't have
been over there in the first place."

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MAN: She said, "You shouldn't have
And that hit me really hard.

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And that hit me really hard.

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I think
And that hit me really hard.

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I think
that's why my dad hasn't slept

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for more than three or four hours
in the last 50 years.

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('50s MUSIC PLAYS)

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Australia slowly emerged
from the horrors of World War II.

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Australia slowly emerged
from the horrors of World War II.
# Short black hair
makes her look so sweet... #

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# Short black hair
makes her look so sweet... #

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# Short black hair
But as the economy recovered,

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But as the economy recovered,

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Australia came to fare better
than most.

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Until for the comfortable
majority, at least,

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Until for the comfortable
life started to feel pretty easy.

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life started to feel pretty easy.

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# Come on, everybody,
clap your hands

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# Come on, everybody,
# Oh, you look real good

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# Oh, you look real good

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# We're gonna do the twist
# Oh, you look real good

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# We're gonna do the twist
And it looks like this... #

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# We're gonna do the twist
Australia was a wonderful place.

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Australia was a wonderful place.

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As everybody says,
they were the good old days.

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Oh, it was wonderful,
the '40s and '50s.

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Had a pretty sort of
free and easy kind of life.

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# Round, round get around
I get around

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# Yeah, get around, round, round
I get around... #

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MAN: I used to do
a lot of rabbit shooting

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and riding all over the countryside
on my bicycle.

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There was just good fun,
good mateship.

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There was just good fun,
# You know you make me want to shout

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# You know you make me want to shout

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# Throw my hands up and shout... #

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It was so slower and quieter now,

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like, you'd live on your bicycle
and just go anywhere.

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like, you'd live on your bicycle
There was hardly any traffic.

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There was hardly any traffic.

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We just had an incredible freedom
to walk, to hitchhike,

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to adventure, to climb trees,
to swim in swamps,

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to adventure, to climb trees,
to play in creeks,

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to play in creeks,

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and to do all the sorts of things
that young kids today can't do.

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And they don't know
what they're missing out on.

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MAN: In that period,

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we still felt that we were part
of a big British family.

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We were still
part of the great Anglosphere.

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At the end of the 1940s,
Australia was led

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by a true champion
of the Anglosphere, Robert Menzies.

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NEWSREEL: From Canberra,

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First pictures of the new Australian
Cabinet just after being sworn in.

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They're seen with the
Governor-General, Mr McKell,

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at whose right sits Mr Menzies,
Prime Minister for the second time.

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He had presence, he had urbanity,

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he brought a civilising influence
to bear into Australian policy.

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He was a pragmatist,
not a dogmatist.
he brought a civilising influence
to bear into Australian policy.

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He was a pragmatist,
not a dogmatist.

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He was a pragmatist,
not a dogmatist.
The Cold War of course, was an area
in which he was on one side.

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The Cold War of course, was an area
in which he was on one side.

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But we always had faith

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that Menzies ran a sensible,
tolerant, cooperative,

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smooth Westminster system
of government.

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Menzies may have been
instinctively drawn to Britain,

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but Britain could no longer
assert itself in our region.

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MAN: Its days as a global
military power were done.

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The United Kingdom could not act
with any kind of pungency or force
MAN: Its days as a global
military power were done.

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The United Kingdom could not act
with any kind of pungency or force

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in world affairs without the support
of the Americans.

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Old European powers such as the UK
were thrown into the shade

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by the Cold War battle between
the USA and the Soviet Union.

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That didn't stop France
attempting to reassert itself

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That didn't stop France
in its former colony in Indochina.

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in its former colony in Indochina.

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Ho Chi Minh's forces,
known as the Viet Minh, resisted.

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Now, in the aftermath of war,

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even though Ho Chi Minh declared
Now, in the aftermath of war,

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even though Ho Chi Minh declared
a democratic republic,

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even though Ho Chi Minh declared
an independent Vietnam,

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an independent Vietnam,

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France does not want to give up
their colonies,

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so they start the French war
against the Viet Minh,

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the French war in Indochina.

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(NON, JE NE REGRETTE RIEN
BY PIAF PLAYS)

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The Yanks are really in this
from the beginning.
(NON, JE NE REGRETTE RIEN
BY PIAF PLAYS)

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The Yanks are really in this
from the beginning.

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They'd actually backed the Viet Minh
during the Japanese occupation

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because they're fighting
against Japan as well.

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because they're fighting
against Japan as well.
They were supplying them with arms.

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They were supplying them with arms.

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But when the French come in,
they switch sides

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and they start
supporting the French.

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And by 1950, they're paying for 80%
of French war costs in Vietnam.

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The French were humbled
and ejected from Vietnam in 1954.

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But for Australia, French attempts
to retake their colony

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But for Australia, French attempts
were really none of our business.

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were really none of our business.

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It didn't impinge
on our consciousness.

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This was a matter
of a stubborn French attempt

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This was a matter
to maintain their empire

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to maintain their empire

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and nationalists attempting
to gain their independence.

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But beyond that,
we knew very little about Vietnam.

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That is, until the idea of
falling dominoes creeps into vogue.

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If we don't stop the advance
of communism in one country,

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a whole lot of other
neighbouring countries will fall.

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The falling dominoes were expected
to go all the way

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from South Vietnam
down through South East Asia

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from South Vietnam
and reach the Australian doorstep.

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and reach the Australian doorstep.

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That was the theory.

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Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. The falling of the dominoes.

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Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
It was constant.

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It was constant.

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And the fear of Asia, constant.

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And the fear of Asia, constant.
At school, kids passed around
those Japanese torture books

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At school, kids passed around
those Japanese torture books

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that came out
from recollections of World War II.

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And, yeah,
there was a fear of Asia for sure.

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NEWSREEL: Active
communist fighting fronts

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have been opened up in Indochina,
Malaya and the Philippines

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have been opened up in Indochina,
where communist satellites,

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where communist satellites,

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trained and armed
by their overlords in Moscow,

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trained and armed
carry on intensive warfare.

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carry on intensive warfare.

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They carry the flag
of world revolution.

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Even now, their eyes are on
the rice fields of Indochina,

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Even now, their eyes are on
the rubber of Malaya,

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the rubber of Malaya,

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and one of the biggest prizes
the rubber of Malaya,

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and one of the biggest prizes
of all - Australia.

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DR HOBBS: The idea that Ho Chi Minh
is a communist

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DR HOBBS: The idea that Ho Chi Minh
just like Mao is a communist,

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just like Mao is a communist,

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and that they're all
going to gang up on us

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and that they're all
and fall down on us as dominoes

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and fall down on us as dominoes

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really stems
and fall down on us as dominoes

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really stems
from this very essentialist view

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of Asian people
as simplistic and easily led.

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MAN: There's an ethnic
and cultural disconnect

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between us and the world around us,

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which goes back
to the very origins of our history -

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which goes back
white, Western, British people

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white, Western, British people

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migrating to this part of the world

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migrating to this part of the world
and becoming a white enclave
in Asia.

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and becoming a white enclave
in Asia.

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And that sets up
a fundamental problem in the history

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which we still haven't resolved.

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NEWSREEL: The Menzies government
had already committed itself

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to support the United States
in Korea,

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and in 1952 Australia
was a signatory to the ANZUS pact.

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and in 1952 Australia
With the retreat of the British,

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With the retreat of the British,

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Australia felt very small and alone
in our neighbourhood.

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The Menzies government
turned to the United States,

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signing the ANZUS treaty,
which came into force in 1952.

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The world needs
the United States of America.

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The world needs
the British peoples of the world.

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The world needs
every scrap of democratic strength

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The world needs
that can be found in it,

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that can be found in it,

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because nobody, however optimistic,

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need underestimate the measure
or the character

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of the danger
that always confronts us.

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Trouble was, we weren't
exactly certain what we'd signed.

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Trouble was, we weren't
What is ANZUS supposed to mean?

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What is ANZUS supposed to mean?

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The Americans answered by saying,
"Our support for you
What is ANZUS supposed to mean?

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The Americans answered by saying,
"Our support for you

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"will depend on your support for us
elsewhere."

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"will depend on your support for us
Now, what did "elsewhere" mean?

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Now, what did "elsewhere" mean?

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Well, the next item on the agenda
was Vietnam,

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Well, the next item on the agenda
was Vietnam,
the support for South Vietnam.

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the support for South Vietnam.

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Attempting to strengthen ties
with the US,

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the Menzies government
dipped a toe into the water.

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In 1962, they sent
an army training team to Vietnam

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to support the fledgling
Republic of Vietnam

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in its struggle against attempts
by North Vietnam

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to unite the country
under communist rule.
in its struggle against attempts
by North Vietnam

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to unite the country
under communist rule.

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'62 is a pivotal year in many ways,

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'62 is a pivotal year in many ways,
and the commitment of 30 advisers
to South Vietnam

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and the commitment of 30 advisers
to South Vietnam

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and the commitment of 30 advisers
as part of a new body,

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as part of a new body,

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the Australian Army Training Team
Vietnam, as it became called,

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was a moment for Australia
to enter the war, really.

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These were men sent to train
and assist South Vietnamese forces,

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bringing to them their special
knowledge of jungle warfare.

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Really, from that moment, Australia
is pretty much in the ball game.

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Yeah.

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Where does the line draw?
Where do we stop? How far do we go?
Yeah.

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Where does the line draw?
Where do we stop? How far do we go?

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Where does the line draw?
Well, we start off by trying to win.

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Well, we start off by trying to win.

235
00:10:45,860 --> 00:10:48,500
Where do we go from there?
Well, let's win first.

236
00:10:48,500 --> 00:10:48,780
Where do we go from there?
Well, let's win first.
# I fell for
the leader of the pack... #

237
00:10:48,780 --> 00:10:51,900
# I fell for
the leader of the pack... #

238
00:10:51,900 --> 00:10:59,860
# I will follow him, follow him
wherever he may go... #

239
00:10:59,860 --> 00:11:04,140
In contrast to North Vietnam's
stable leadership under Ho Chi Minh,

240
00:11:04,140 --> 00:11:08,700
South Vietnamese President Diem
had trouble making friends.

241
00:11:10,420 --> 00:11:11,500
NEWSREEL: South Vietnam,

242
00:11:11,500 --> 00:11:13,980
focal point of the West's fight
against communism

243
00:11:13,980 --> 00:11:15,340
in South East Asia.

244
00:11:15,340 --> 00:11:17,820
For nearly a decade,
Premier Ngo Dinh Diem

245
00:11:17,820 --> 00:11:21,540
ruled his small nation of 15 million
without open opposition.

246
00:11:21,540 --> 00:11:26,100
But in mid-1963, protests
began mounting against his regime.

247
00:11:32,420 --> 00:11:35,940
I think the problem with the way
the West approached South Vietnam

248
00:11:35,940 --> 00:11:39,380
was that South Vietnam
had just come out of colonisation.

249
00:11:39,380 --> 00:11:39,660
was that South Vietnam
had just come out of colonisation.
It was fighting for its survival
against a very determined enemy

250
00:11:39,660 --> 00:11:42,980
It was fighting for its survival
against a very determined enemy

251
00:11:42,980 --> 00:11:43,220
It was fighting for its survival
that wanted to invade it.

252
00:11:43,220 --> 00:11:44,700
that wanted to invade it.

253
00:11:44,700 --> 00:11:47,540
Yet somehow,
people expected South Vietnam

254
00:11:47,540 --> 00:11:47,780
Yet somehow,
to instantly become a democracy.

255
00:11:47,780 --> 00:11:50,260
to instantly become a democracy.

256
00:11:50,260 --> 00:11:51,660
This was never going to happen.

257
00:11:51,660 --> 00:11:54,380
You know, it was struggling
with far too many issues

258
00:11:54,380 --> 00:11:54,620
You know, it was struggling
just to establish itself.

259
00:11:54,620 --> 00:11:56,380
just to establish itself.

260
00:11:57,860 --> 00:12:00,740
DR HOBBS: Diem had been getting
increasingly repressive.

261
00:12:00,740 --> 00:12:04,460
Increasingly, he's despised
by the South Vietnamese,

262
00:12:04,460 --> 00:12:08,780
basically tips
the JFK administration into action.

263
00:12:11,500 --> 00:12:15,860
The CIA backed a military coup
against the regime.

264
00:12:15,860 --> 00:12:19,460
President Diem and his brother
were eliminated.

265
00:12:21,620 --> 00:12:24,700
NEWSREEL: In a swift coup, they
swept through the streets of Saigon,

266
00:12:24,700 --> 00:12:29,020
overwhelmed loyalist forces
and seized key buildings.

267
00:12:29,020 --> 00:12:31,860
Diem and Nhu refused an offer
of safe conduct out of the country

268
00:12:31,860 --> 00:12:32,100
Diem and Nhu refused an offer
and fled.

269
00:12:32,100 --> 00:12:33,420
and fled.

270
00:12:33,420 --> 00:12:35,180
Both men were killed.

271
00:12:37,340 --> 00:12:39,580
After Diem is then assassinated

272
00:12:39,580 --> 00:12:39,820
because the CIA realises
After Diem is then assassinated

273
00:12:39,820 --> 00:12:42,220
because the CIA realises
he's a disaster,

274
00:12:42,220 --> 00:12:45,100
from that point,
you've got this revolving door.

275
00:12:45,100 --> 00:12:45,340
from that point,
You know, various generals

276
00:12:45,340 --> 00:12:46,420
You know, various generals

277
00:12:46,420 --> 00:12:49,980
sort of rotating through
the prime ministership in Saigon,

278
00:12:49,980 --> 00:12:51,100
and it's very an unstable regime.

279
00:12:51,100 --> 00:12:55,980
But no matter how unstable
the southern Vietnam regime was,

280
00:12:55,980 --> 00:12:59,420
the US government
believed it must be supported

281
00:12:59,420 --> 00:12:59,660
the US government
to keep the communist north at bay.

282
00:12:59,660 --> 00:13:01,980
to keep the communist north at bay.

283
00:13:01,980 --> 00:13:06,780
Let's not forget that on the day
John F. Kennedy was assassinated

284
00:13:06,780 --> 00:13:11,260
in Dallas in November 1963, he was
due to give a speech that afternoon

285
00:13:11,260 --> 00:13:11,500
in Dallas in November 1963, he was
in which he was going to say

286
00:13:11,500 --> 00:13:13,460
in which he was going to say

287
00:13:13,460 --> 00:13:17,420
that America must not tire
from its efforts in Vietnam,

288
00:13:17,420 --> 00:13:20,300
that it still had to be,
for the world,

289
00:13:20,300 --> 00:13:22,540
the watchmen
on the walls of freedom.

290
00:13:22,540 --> 00:13:26,580
MAN: You, Lyndon Baines Johnson,
do solemnly swear.

291
00:13:26,580 --> 00:13:30,020
I, Lyndon Baines Johnson
do solemnly swear.

292
00:13:30,020 --> 00:13:33,780
LBJ comes into power.
He says, "We're in an awful mess."

293
00:13:33,780 --> 00:13:37,180
"This is an awful mess. And I don't
know what to do about it."

294
00:13:37,180 --> 00:13:39,420
He thinks it's just going to get
worse and worse,

295
00:13:39,420 --> 00:13:42,260
and he doesn't see
how we can pull out.

296
00:13:42,260 --> 00:13:47,180
Johnson was on the one hand saying
he was not going to get involved,

297
00:13:47,180 --> 00:13:47,420
Johnson was on the one hand saying
but covertly putting in place

298
00:13:47,420 --> 00:13:51,180
but covertly putting in place

299
00:13:51,180 --> 00:13:52,900
whatever would be necessary

300
00:13:52,900 --> 00:13:57,740
if it came to the point where
American troops had to be committed.

301
00:13:57,740 --> 00:14:02,300
In 1964, with the US
increasingly committed to Vietnam,

302
00:14:02,300 --> 00:14:06,580
Australia saw the opportunity
to lock in the precious alliance.

303
00:14:06,580 --> 00:14:10,380
For that,
we needed more men in boots.

304
00:14:10,380 --> 00:14:13,420
The Menzies government's answer
was conscription.

305
00:14:13,420 --> 00:14:16,140
What do you think about
sending troops to Vietnam?

306
00:14:16,140 --> 00:14:16,380
What do you think about
I think it's a good idea.

307
00:14:16,380 --> 00:14:17,300
I think it's a good idea.

308
00:14:17,300 --> 00:14:19,780
I think all countries
should participate

309
00:14:19,780 --> 00:14:20,740
and help each other like that.

310
00:14:20,740 --> 00:14:22,340
I think it's got to be done.

311
00:14:22,340 --> 00:14:23,740
I haven't got any choice
at this stage.

312
00:14:23,740 --> 00:14:27,580
Well, I suppose
you have to really keep them,

313
00:14:27,580 --> 00:14:27,820
Well, I suppose
keep the communists out.

314
00:14:27,820 --> 00:14:30,300
keep the communists out.

315
00:14:31,460 --> 00:14:34,460
But I'd rather see my boys
stay around.

316
00:14:34,460 --> 00:14:38,140
I think it's perfectly alright.
I think it's a duty of honour.

317
00:14:38,140 --> 00:14:42,020
Well, I don't particularly like
the idea.

318
00:14:42,020 --> 00:14:45,460
Uh, I don't think
we should be brought into it at all.

319
00:14:45,460 --> 00:14:47,020
I don't think they should
send people there.

320
00:14:47,020 --> 00:14:49,140
If the Americans want to start
a fight or start a war,

321
00:14:49,140 --> 00:14:49,380
If the Americans want to start
that's their business.

322
00:14:49,380 --> 00:14:50,660
that's their business.

323
00:14:50,660 --> 00:14:52,060
Why should we be involved in it?

324
00:14:52,060 --> 00:14:54,220
It's got nothing to do with us.

325
00:14:54,220 --> 00:14:56,420
The introduction
of selective conscription,

326
00:14:56,420 --> 00:14:59,540
as it was called
under a National Service Act,

327
00:14:59,540 --> 00:15:03,540
was seen as the way to bring
the numbers up in the Defence Force.

328
00:15:03,540 --> 00:15:06,060
They were looking to get
a force of 40,000

329
00:15:06,060 --> 00:15:06,300
They were looking to get
and they were way below that.

330
00:15:06,300 --> 00:15:08,700
and they were way below that.

331
00:15:08,700 --> 00:15:12,300
20-year-olds were asked
to register their birth date

332
00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:16,820
with the Department of Labour
and National Service on turning 20.

333
00:15:16,820 --> 00:15:18,780
Do you like the idea
of 20-year-olds going overseas?

334
00:15:18,780 --> 00:15:19,020
Do you like the idea
20, 18 or 19, yeah, in they go.

335
00:15:19,020 --> 00:15:20,780
20, 18 or 19, yeah, in they go.

336
00:15:20,780 --> 00:15:23,700
It's a good experience.
Makes a man out of them.

337
00:15:23,700 --> 00:15:23,940
It's a good experience.
I don't believe in conscription.

338
00:15:23,940 --> 00:15:26,180
I don't believe in conscription.

339
00:15:26,180 --> 00:15:28,860
If they want to go,
let them go on their own accord.

340
00:15:28,860 --> 00:15:31,820
I have a son
that is in the national call-up

341
00:15:31,820 --> 00:15:32,060
I have a son
and he'll probably go in time.

342
00:15:32,060 --> 00:15:34,020
and he'll probably go in time.

343
00:15:34,020 --> 00:15:35,980
And I'm a widow and he's my only son

344
00:15:35,980 --> 00:15:39,340
and, therefore, I've got to fight
to say why shouldn't everyone else?

345
00:15:43,780 --> 00:15:46,940
Well, I thought
if it was to assist the country

346
00:15:46,940 --> 00:15:49,940
in the defence
of communism spreading,

347
00:15:49,940 --> 00:15:50,180
it might be a good thing
in the defence
of communism spreading,

348
00:15:50,180 --> 00:15:51,100
it might be a good thing

349
00:15:51,100 --> 00:15:51,340
if the current numbers in
it might be a good thing

350
00:15:51,340 --> 00:15:56,580
if the current numbers in
the Defence Force were inadequate.

351
00:15:56,580 --> 00:15:56,820
if the current numbers in
the Defence Force were inadequate.
Go!

352
00:15:56,820 --> 00:15:58,460
Go!

353
00:15:58,460 --> 00:16:01,020
(SHOUTS INDISTINCTLY)

354
00:16:01,020 --> 00:16:03,540
That's what happens
if you don't leap!

355
00:16:03,540 --> 00:16:03,780
That's what happens
Give us 20 push-ups.

356
00:16:03,780 --> 00:16:05,100
Give us 20 push-ups.

357
00:16:05,100 --> 00:16:07,820
Three, four, five.

358
00:16:07,820 --> 00:16:10,060
Come on. He's like a bag of wheat.

359
00:16:10,060 --> 00:16:14,580
MAN: The population loved the idea
of a young man in uniform

360
00:16:14,580 --> 00:16:18,860
becoming disciplined adults through
the process of military training.

361
00:16:18,860 --> 00:16:21,140
(SHOUTS ORDERS)

362
00:16:21,140 --> 00:16:21,380
Controversially, the candidates
were chosen by lottery,
(SHOUTS ORDERS)

363
00:16:21,380 --> 00:16:24,340
Controversially, the candidates
were chosen by lottery,

364
00:16:24,340 --> 00:16:28,900
a lottery that eventually
acquired the unkind nickname

365
00:16:28,900 --> 00:16:29,900
Lottery of Death.

366
00:16:35,460 --> 00:16:40,340
This barrel holds the immediate
future for 40,300 young Australians

367
00:16:40,340 --> 00:16:43,780
who have registered for
national service since January 25th.

368
00:16:43,780 --> 00:16:46,300
The plan, which was announced
last November

369
00:16:46,300 --> 00:16:50,020
in view of the deteriorating
strategic situation,

370
00:16:50,020 --> 00:16:52,980
aims eventually at providing
a constant strength

371
00:16:52,980 --> 00:16:53,220
aims eventually at providing
of 13,800 young national servicemen

372
00:16:53,220 --> 00:16:56,140
of 13,800 young national servicemen

373
00:16:56,140 --> 00:16:58,380
in Australia's military forces.

374
00:16:59,660 --> 00:17:01,620
WOMAN: The draw happened
on television.

375
00:17:01,620 --> 00:17:03,460
There were 31 dates in the barrel,

376
00:17:03,460 --> 00:17:03,700
and if your birth date
was drawn out,
There were 31 dates in the barrel,

377
00:17:03,700 --> 00:17:05,980
and if your birth date
was drawn out,

378
00:17:05,980 --> 00:17:08,820
then you had to register
for national service.

379
00:17:18,580 --> 00:17:21,940
It had an element of randomness
to it.

380
00:17:21,940 --> 00:17:25,660
It also felt somewhat ghoulish
to many,

381
00:17:25,660 --> 00:17:28,180
the idea that your life could change
and pivot

382
00:17:28,180 --> 00:17:30,500
on this single moment of bad luck.

383
00:17:33,380 --> 00:17:37,220
MAN: Here I was going to be taken
away from a life of playing rugby

384
00:17:37,220 --> 00:17:37,500
with St Ives in Sydney,
rowing surf boats with Newport
MAN: Here I was going to be taken
away from a life of playing rugby

385
00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:41,980
with St Ives in Sydney,
rowing surf boats with Newport

386
00:17:41,980 --> 00:17:42,260
with St Ives in Sydney,
rowing surf boats with Newport
and in hot pursuit of a girl from
the computer programming department.

387
00:17:42,260 --> 00:17:47,700
and in hot pursuit of a girl from
the computer programming department.

388
00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:47,940
and in hot pursuit of a girl from
But...um...

389
00:17:47,940 --> 00:17:50,620
But...um...

390
00:17:50,620 --> 00:17:52,340
Yeah, I just...

391
00:17:52,340 --> 00:17:55,940
But then I thought,
"No, it won't happen to me."

392
00:17:55,940 --> 00:17:56,180
But then I thought,
Of course it does.

393
00:17:56,180 --> 00:17:57,260
Of course it does.

394
00:18:01,020 --> 00:18:02,900
Three-two-three.

395
00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:04,660
323.

396
00:18:04,660 --> 00:18:07,380
November 18 to May 20.
Correct.

397
00:18:13,180 --> 00:18:17,460
I always remember a bunch of guys
from Sydney Uni

398
00:18:17,460 --> 00:18:20,540
standing on the footpath
handing out shots of scotch

399
00:18:20,540 --> 00:18:23,900
and telling you to run up the stairs
to the medical appointment

400
00:18:23,900 --> 00:18:27,780
so your blood pressure
would be through the roof.

401
00:18:27,780 --> 00:18:30,100
I drank a scotch
but I then took the elevator.

402
00:18:33,180 --> 00:18:36,700
It was a pretty quick medical.
You know, it was unusual.

403
00:18:36,700 --> 00:18:39,540
Because I guess
I'd played a lot of footy,

404
00:18:39,540 --> 00:18:39,820
so I was used to parading around
with nothing on
Because I guess
I'd played a lot of footy,

405
00:18:39,820 --> 00:18:42,020
so I was used to parading around
with nothing on

406
00:18:42,020 --> 00:18:42,900
in front of other guys.

407
00:18:42,900 --> 00:18:46,900
But they were your mates, so...

408
00:18:48,100 --> 00:18:52,020
Alright.
So, I was conscripted in 1965.

409
00:18:52,020 --> 00:18:56,340
We were the very first people
to have to sort of figure out

410
00:18:56,340 --> 00:18:59,340
the rights that the state has
over an individual.

411
00:18:59,340 --> 00:19:02,540
You're asking to think about
the morality of war.

412
00:19:02,540 --> 00:19:05,820
You're thinking about the moralities
of killing and stuff like that.

413
00:19:05,820 --> 00:19:10,300
These are big moral, political,
spiritual,

414
00:19:10,300 --> 00:19:11,500
you know, religious issues.

415
00:19:11,500 --> 00:19:14,020
Present...arms.

416
00:19:14,020 --> 00:19:16,420
One, two, three...arms.

417
00:19:16,420 --> 00:19:20,780
When you hear people talk about
the Australian Army at the time,

418
00:19:20,780 --> 00:19:24,540
they talk about it
as a place of equality,

419
00:19:24,540 --> 00:19:29,740
a place where people of all races
and classes mixed together.

420
00:19:29,740 --> 00:19:33,300
You could be excluded from
national service if you were gay

421
00:19:33,300 --> 00:19:37,580
and there was a certain amount
of gay pretending if you like,

422
00:19:37,580 --> 00:19:37,820
and there was a certain amount
I think, going on.

423
00:19:37,820 --> 00:19:39,380
I think, going on.

424
00:19:39,380 --> 00:19:39,620
Certainly some doctors were prepared
I think, going on.

425
00:19:39,620 --> 00:19:45,620
Certainly some doctors were prepared
to sign off men as gay

426
00:19:45,620 --> 00:19:51,180
who might not otherwise have shown
any particular gay tendencies.

427
00:19:51,180 --> 00:19:53,700
So, we get
this faintly comedic image

428
00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:57,300
of straight men pretending to be gay
to get out of the services.

429
00:19:57,300 --> 00:20:01,220
But the other side of that coin
is gay men pretended to be straight

430
00:20:01,220 --> 00:20:02,500
so as to be conscripted

431
00:20:02,500 --> 00:20:05,380
because a lot of people
wanted to be conscripted.

432
00:20:05,380 --> 00:20:07,900
A lot of people
wanted to fight the Vietnam War.

433
00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:08,140
A lot of people
That's a fact that's forgotten now.

434
00:20:08,140 --> 00:20:10,060
That's a fact that's forgotten now.

435
00:20:11,460 --> 00:20:14,940
The return of conscription
may have been massively popular,

436
00:20:14,940 --> 00:20:18,460
but there were early ripples
of dissent.

437
00:20:18,460 --> 00:20:20,980
ARROW: Not long after Menzies
had reintroduced conscription,

438
00:20:20,980 --> 00:20:25,420
he delivered a speech to, really
to the party faithful in Hornsby

439
00:20:25,420 --> 00:20:26,860
in Sydney's north-west.

440
00:20:29,980 --> 00:20:32,180
As he started to make his speech,

441
00:20:32,180 --> 00:20:35,980
a number of women
who had infiltrated the crowd,

442
00:20:35,980 --> 00:20:37,940
dressed all in black,

443
00:20:37,940 --> 00:20:39,860
rose silently from their seats,

444
00:20:39,860 --> 00:20:41,860
and they were wearing veils
over their faces.

445
00:20:41,860 --> 00:20:44,980
So they looked like
they were women in mourning.

446
00:20:44,980 --> 00:20:45,220
So they looked like
And they were jeered.

447
00:20:45,220 --> 00:20:47,860
And they were jeered.

448
00:20:47,860 --> 00:20:48,980
They were booed.

449
00:20:48,980 --> 00:20:52,660
Menzies had to kind of
stop his speech for a moment.

450
00:20:52,660 --> 00:20:54,940
And the women stood there
for several minutes,

451
00:20:54,940 --> 00:20:59,300
just kind of absorbing the kind
of abuse, I suppose, of the crowd.

452
00:20:59,300 --> 00:21:03,140
And then they all left the room,
left the hall at the same time

453
00:21:03,140 --> 00:21:06,260
and handed out
anti-conscription pamphlets.

454
00:21:07,620 --> 00:21:09,340
They weren't ratbags.

455
00:21:09,340 --> 00:21:12,140
They were dressed
as respectable liberal women,

456
00:21:12,140 --> 00:21:15,300
but they were dressed
as if they were going to a funeral.

457
00:21:15,300 --> 00:21:18,220
The idea
that respectable wives and mothers

458
00:21:18,220 --> 00:21:18,460
The idea
would protest government policy,

459
00:21:18,460 --> 00:21:20,340
would protest government policy,

460
00:21:20,340 --> 00:21:23,420
that would claim
to know better than Menzies,

461
00:21:23,420 --> 00:21:25,780
would claim to know better
than the government

462
00:21:25,780 --> 00:21:26,020
would claim to know better
who was making these big decisions,

463
00:21:26,020 --> 00:21:28,500
who was making these big decisions,

464
00:21:28,500 --> 00:21:31,780
was seen as kind of outrageous.

465
00:21:33,220 --> 00:21:36,660
It was the first women's protest
against conscription

466
00:21:36,660 --> 00:21:38,020
in the Vietnam era.

467
00:21:38,020 --> 00:21:40,460
It would not be the last.

468
00:21:40,460 --> 00:21:43,020
You know, a number of the women who
were part of these early protests

469
00:21:43,020 --> 00:21:44,820
were sort of told,
"Well, why don't you go home

470
00:21:44,820 --> 00:21:47,140
"and look after your husband
and family at home

471
00:21:47,140 --> 00:21:49,340
"rather than worrying about
this stuff.

472
00:21:49,340 --> 00:21:49,580
"rather than worrying about
"It's none of your business."

473
00:21:49,580 --> 00:21:50,580
"It's none of your business."

474
00:21:50,580 --> 00:21:54,180
So, it was very much
that politics is men's domain

475
00:21:54,180 --> 00:21:57,660
and women, and particularly mothers,
have no role to play

476
00:21:57,660 --> 00:22:00,380
in this kind of broader
civil society debate

477
00:22:00,380 --> 00:22:03,660
about whether we should
be sending young men to fight

478
00:22:03,660 --> 00:22:03,900
about whether we should
in a war overseas.

479
00:22:03,900 --> 00:22:04,700
in a war overseas.

480
00:22:04,700 --> 00:22:04,940
And sending young men
in a war overseas.

481
00:22:04,940 --> 00:22:07,660
And sending young men
to fight overseas

482
00:22:07,660 --> 00:22:10,260
was exactly what Robert Menzies
had in mind.

483
00:22:12,060 --> 00:22:15,100
The decision was taken
at a forgotten Cabinet meeting

484
00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:15,340
The decision was taken
on December 17, 1964.

485
00:22:15,340 --> 00:22:18,460
on December 17, 1964.

486
00:22:21,700 --> 00:22:25,020
He was a bit tired and
he wanted to get it over quickly.

487
00:22:25,020 --> 00:22:27,540
He goes into the meeting
with the Cabinet

488
00:22:27,540 --> 00:22:30,660
and basically he'd clearly
already made his mind up.

489
00:22:30,660 --> 00:22:35,500
He wants them to ratify a decision
to send combat troops to Vietnam.

490
00:22:35,500 --> 00:22:39,380
The meeting was of the Defence
and Foreign Affairs Subcommittee

491
00:22:39,380 --> 00:22:39,620
The meeting was of the Defence
of Cabinet,

492
00:22:39,620 --> 00:22:40,860
of Cabinet,

493
00:22:40,860 --> 00:22:42,620
which was Menzies and McEwen,

494
00:22:42,620 --> 00:22:46,140
the leader of the Country Party
and Deputy Prime Minister,

495
00:22:46,140 --> 00:22:48,980
Harold Holt, the Deputy leader
of the party and the Treasurer,

496
00:22:48,980 --> 00:22:52,020
and what Menzies
would habitually call the new boys.

497
00:22:52,020 --> 00:22:52,260
and what Menzies
(PHONE RINGS)

498
00:22:52,260 --> 00:22:54,580
(PHONE RINGS)

499
00:22:54,580 --> 00:22:59,940
On December 14th, a request
came in from President Johnson,

500
00:22:59,940 --> 00:23:01,540
not for a battalion,
not mentioned at all,

501
00:23:01,540 --> 00:23:01,780
not for a battalion,
said he didn't want it, actually,

502
00:23:01,780 --> 00:23:03,700
said he didn't want it, actually,

503
00:23:03,700 --> 00:23:07,100
but for a great array
of other military assistance.

504
00:23:07,100 --> 00:23:09,220
And particularly
he wanted a big increase

505
00:23:09,220 --> 00:23:09,460
And particularly
in the Australian Army advisers.

506
00:23:09,460 --> 00:23:12,180
in the Australian Army advisers.

507
00:23:12,180 --> 00:23:12,420
The US didn't want
in the Australian Army advisers.

508
00:23:12,420 --> 00:23:15,860
The US didn't want
Australian combat troops.

509
00:23:15,860 --> 00:23:16,100
The US didn't want
Menzies had other ideas.

510
00:23:16,100 --> 00:23:18,340
Menzies had other ideas.

511
00:23:18,340 --> 00:23:20,700
After five minutes of discussion,

512
00:23:20,700 --> 00:23:22,140
the meeting decided

513
00:23:22,140 --> 00:23:22,380
to send an infantry battalion
the meeting decided

514
00:23:22,380 --> 00:23:27,660
to send an infantry battalion
of 800 men to Vietnam.

515
00:23:27,660 --> 00:23:31,540
The Prime Minister
saw this as an opportunity

516
00:23:31,540 --> 00:23:31,780
The Prime Minister
to get alongside the United States.

517
00:23:31,780 --> 00:23:34,660
to get alongside the United States.

518
00:23:34,660 --> 00:23:39,220
"Everything we can put alongside
the Americans

519
00:23:39,220 --> 00:23:42,660
"in the common interest
is good," he said.

520
00:23:42,660 --> 00:23:46,940
There are few things more serious
that a prime minister could do

521
00:23:46,940 --> 00:23:48,020
is send people to war.

522
00:23:48,020 --> 00:23:51,860
I mean, this is, you know,
about taking and losing life

523
00:23:51,860 --> 00:23:52,100
I mean, this is, you know,
and national treasure.

524
00:23:52,100 --> 00:23:53,740
and national treasure.

525
00:23:54,700 --> 00:23:57,220
So it's hugely important.

526
00:23:57,220 --> 00:24:00,380
And so, this was just done,
you know, in five minutes.

527
00:24:00,380 --> 00:24:05,820
Five minutes to decide to commit
combat troops to fight in Vietnam.

528
00:24:05,820 --> 00:24:06,060
Five minutes to decide to commit
Five minutes to set in train

529
00:24:06,060 --> 00:24:08,300
Five minutes to set in train

530
00:24:08,300 --> 00:24:12,700
a process that would alter Australia
immeasurably.

531
00:24:12,700 --> 00:24:17,540
The discussion was not worthy of
the great issue that was involved.

532
00:24:21,620 --> 00:24:23,940
By April 1965,

533
00:24:23,940 --> 00:24:24,180
Robert Menzies was ready
By April 1965,

534
00:24:24,180 --> 00:24:27,060
Robert Menzies was ready
to let the rest of the country know

535
00:24:27,060 --> 00:24:30,380
about the decision taken
the previous December.

536
00:24:31,540 --> 00:24:33,820
MAN: He was claiming
it was a civil war,

537
00:24:33,820 --> 00:24:34,060
MAN: He was claiming
not an insurgency from the north,

538
00:24:34,060 --> 00:24:35,820
not an insurgency from the north,

539
00:24:35,820 --> 00:24:36,060
which was part of the justification
not an insurgency from the north,

540
00:24:36,060 --> 00:24:38,980
which was part of the justification
for it, of course.

541
00:24:38,980 --> 00:24:43,900
it was the justification that lay
behind our forward defence policy

542
00:24:43,900 --> 00:24:48,100
and an attempt to get
a powerful American strength

543
00:24:48,100 --> 00:24:48,340
and an attempt to get
into our sphere of influence

544
00:24:48,340 --> 00:24:50,020
into our sphere of influence

545
00:24:50,020 --> 00:24:50,260
which was seen now
into our sphere of influence

546
00:24:50,260 --> 00:24:53,780
which was seen now
to extend into South East Asia.

547
00:24:53,780 --> 00:24:57,780
But first
he had an obstacle to clear.

548
00:24:57,780 --> 00:25:00,500
DR EDWARDS: If we were going
to commit forces to Vietnam,

549
00:25:00,500 --> 00:25:04,620
we would not simply do it
because the Americans wanted us to

550
00:25:04,620 --> 00:25:08,060
or because we wanted
the Americans to want us to.

551
00:25:08,060 --> 00:25:12,020
We had to have an invitation from
the South Vietnamese government.

552
00:25:12,020 --> 00:25:16,300
And it was known
that the people in power at the time

553
00:25:16,300 --> 00:25:20,860
had some reservations
that if foreign governments were,

554
00:25:20,860 --> 00:25:25,140
you know, would come in and have
to fight their battles for them,

555
00:25:25,140 --> 00:25:28,380
that this was going to be seen
as a sign of weakness,

556
00:25:28,380 --> 00:25:32,980
as indeed it was on the part
of...by the Vietnamese people.

557
00:25:32,980 --> 00:25:33,220
as indeed it was on the part
Now, Menzies claimed, of course,

558
00:25:33,220 --> 00:25:35,460
Now, Menzies claimed, of course,

559
00:25:35,460 --> 00:25:37,140
to have had...be in receipt

560
00:25:37,140 --> 00:25:40,620
of a request from the government
of the Republic of Vietnam.

561
00:25:40,620 --> 00:25:44,100
But I think the conventional wisdom
now amongst scholars

562
00:25:44,100 --> 00:25:46,780
is that in fact the Americans
had generated that request

563
00:25:46,780 --> 00:25:49,380
from the Republic of Vietnam
on Australia's behalf.

564
00:25:49,380 --> 00:25:49,620
from the Republic of Vietnam
# Rescue me, take me in your arms

565
00:25:49,620 --> 00:25:53,460
# Rescue me, take me in your arms

566
00:25:53,460 --> 00:25:54,940
# Rescue me... #

567
00:25:54,940 --> 00:25:58,500
On April 29th, 1965,

568
00:25:58,500 --> 00:26:01,500
the Prime Minister
told the House of Representatives

569
00:26:01,500 --> 00:26:06,100
that Australia would send a battalion
of combat troops to Vietnam.

570
00:26:21,340 --> 00:26:24,980
Well, I think I suddenly felt
like I'd been kicked in the stomach

571
00:26:24,980 --> 00:26:27,820
because I was the one
he was wanting to send there.

572
00:26:33,940 --> 00:26:36,700
I was in my first year
at Duntroon then.

573
00:26:36,700 --> 00:26:40,580
And indeed I remember
walking to Mess Parade at lunch

574
00:26:40,580 --> 00:26:40,820
And indeed I remember
and I was just a little behind time

575
00:26:40,820 --> 00:26:42,340
and I was just a little behind time

576
00:26:42,340 --> 00:26:44,900
and there was this cheering
going on.

577
00:26:44,900 --> 00:26:47,820
And that was because news
that Menzies had announced

578
00:26:47,820 --> 00:26:48,060
And that was because news
the commitment had occurred.

579
00:26:48,060 --> 00:26:49,260
the commitment had occurred.

580
00:26:49,260 --> 00:26:49,500
So, we were rather pleased,
the commitment had occurred.

581
00:26:49,500 --> 00:26:52,860
So, we were rather pleased,
as soldiers would be,

582
00:26:52,860 --> 00:26:53,100
So, we were rather pleased,
that you had a war.

583
00:26:53,100 --> 00:26:54,340
that you had a war.

584
00:26:57,420 --> 00:27:02,340
I believed all the things
that the government was saying,

585
00:27:02,340 --> 00:27:02,620
the communists coming down
through Malay Peninsula, you know,
I believed all the things
that the government was saying,

586
00:27:02,620 --> 00:27:06,260
the communists coming down
through Malay Peninsula, you know,

587
00:27:06,260 --> 00:27:08,820
over time, and then eventually
Australia, you know.

588
00:27:08,820 --> 00:27:11,900
And I thought, "Oh, well, if we can
stop it there, well and good."

589
00:27:11,900 --> 00:27:12,140
And I thought, "Oh, well, if we can
And that was part of the plan.

590
00:27:12,140 --> 00:27:13,580
And that was part of the plan.

591
00:27:13,580 --> 00:27:13,820
And that was part of the plan.
Would you both like
to go to Vietnam?

592
00:27:13,820 --> 00:27:16,380
Would you both like
to go to Vietnam?

593
00:27:16,380 --> 00:27:18,900
I would.
Why is that?

594
00:27:18,900 --> 00:27:20,420
Well, I think
there's a lot of benefits

595
00:27:20,420 --> 00:27:22,140
to be got out of it, really,
and experience.

596
00:27:22,140 --> 00:27:25,380
And when you come back,
it's a pretty good possibility.

597
00:27:25,380 --> 00:27:26,580
A lot of benefits.

598
00:27:26,580 --> 00:27:27,820
And yourself?

599
00:27:27,820 --> 00:27:30,300
No. I don't want to go,
but if I have to go, I'll go.

600
00:27:30,300 --> 00:27:33,180
Well, it's not a matter
of liking to go, but I would go.

601
00:27:33,180 --> 00:27:37,060
I realise that I'm in the army.
I've got to go with it.

602
00:27:37,060 --> 00:27:41,820
But if it was a choice
between deciding to go,

603
00:27:41,820 --> 00:27:42,060
But if it was a choice
volunteering or staying,

604
00:27:42,060 --> 00:27:44,580
volunteering or staying,

605
00:27:44,580 --> 00:27:46,780
I'd stay, I wouldn't volunteer.

606
00:27:48,420 --> 00:27:51,660
I didn't think it was a good idea.
However, I did my duty.

607
00:27:51,660 --> 00:27:51,900
I didn't think it was a good idea.
I was a professional officer.

608
00:27:51,900 --> 00:27:53,100
I was a professional officer.

609
00:27:53,100 --> 00:27:55,100
And, you know, I was spoken for
and I had to do my duty

610
00:27:55,100 --> 00:27:57,700
regardless
of what I thought personally.

611
00:27:57,700 --> 00:28:01,980
The military is conditioned,
I guess, is the term to use

612
00:28:01,980 --> 00:28:06,260
to believe in the sorts of politics
that the government believes in.

613
00:28:06,260 --> 00:28:07,780
So, the thought
to be able to go

614
00:28:07,780 --> 00:28:09,940
and fight in somebody else's
backyard

615
00:28:09,940 --> 00:28:10,220
instead of waiting until
we had to fight in our own backyard,
and fight in somebody else's
backyard

616
00:28:10,220 --> 00:28:13,140
instead of waiting until
we had to fight in our own backyard,

617
00:28:13,140 --> 00:28:15,020
you know, it was positive for us.

618
00:28:16,100 --> 00:28:19,820
I must say that in those days
I felt wonderful.

619
00:28:21,260 --> 00:28:24,820
You know, it's like
if you've got racehorses,

620
00:28:24,820 --> 00:28:26,380
you've got to give them a run.

621
00:28:26,380 --> 00:28:26,580
you've got to give them a run.
I don't think Menzies had any idea

622
00:28:26,580 --> 00:28:28,140
I don't think Menzies had any idea

623
00:28:28,140 --> 00:28:30,340
of the kind of war
he was getting into,

624
00:28:30,340 --> 00:28:33,300
nor really do I think
the chiefs of staff did.

625
00:28:33,300 --> 00:28:36,820
But in relation to Menzies,
it wasn't...it wasn't his area.

626
00:28:36,820 --> 00:28:39,340
I mean, he was a lawyer,
he was a politician

627
00:28:39,340 --> 00:28:41,860
and he dealt with
strategic and political matters

628
00:28:41,860 --> 00:28:44,540
and he didn't think in specifically,
in military terms.

629
00:28:44,540 --> 00:28:48,300
Gross ignorance
probably best sums it up.

630
00:28:48,300 --> 00:28:50,660
ALL: (CHANT) One, two, three, four,
we don't want war.

631
00:28:50,660 --> 00:28:54,060
Five, six, seven, eight,
stop the war, negotiate.

632
00:28:54,060 --> 00:28:56,700
Well, I think the Americans
shouldn't be interfering

633
00:28:56,700 --> 00:28:56,940
Well, I think the Americans
as much as they are in Vietnam,

634
00:28:56,940 --> 00:28:58,540
as much as they are in Vietnam,

635
00:28:58,540 --> 00:28:58,780
and they should leave Vietnam
as much as they are in Vietnam,

636
00:28:58,780 --> 00:29:01,540
and they should leave Vietnam
to a certain extent

637
00:29:01,540 --> 00:29:01,780
and they should leave Vietnam
to decide its own troubles.

638
00:29:01,780 --> 00:29:03,420
to decide its own troubles.

639
00:29:03,420 --> 00:29:06,100
What use is it if we take Vietnam?

640
00:29:06,100 --> 00:29:08,500
If Vietnam is lost,
are they any closer to us or not?

641
00:29:08,500 --> 00:29:09,780
No. They're no closer.
MAN: (SHOUTS) Commies!

642
00:29:09,780 --> 00:29:11,740
They're just as close
whether Vietnam is lost or not.

643
00:29:11,740 --> 00:29:11,980
They're just as close
That's right.

644
00:29:11,980 --> 00:29:12,740
That's right.

645
00:29:12,740 --> 00:29:14,740
So why send a quarter
of our Australians to Vietnam?

646
00:29:14,740 --> 00:29:16,100
What use does it serve? None.

647
00:29:16,100 --> 00:29:19,300
Can we make
any, any appreciable difference?

648
00:29:19,300 --> 00:29:21,580
Australia's alliance with America?
It indicates nothing.

649
00:29:21,580 --> 00:29:23,060
What about it?
It's a boob...

650
00:29:23,060 --> 00:29:25,180
..doesn't believe in US policy
in Vietnam

651
00:29:25,180 --> 00:29:26,340
is living in a fool's paradise.

652
00:29:26,340 --> 00:29:27,700
Oh, don't be silly, man.

653
00:29:27,700 --> 00:29:30,700
What use is it if our blokes
get killed? It's a token.

654
00:29:30,700 --> 00:29:33,220
It's a useless token.
It's 800 men shot for nothing.

655
00:29:33,220 --> 00:29:33,980
Why is it a useless token?

656
00:29:33,980 --> 00:29:36,460
And they're just as dangerous
whether they're lost or won.

657
00:29:36,460 --> 00:29:39,060
Look, if we lose Vietnam, we lose
Australia. We've got to have...

658
00:29:39,060 --> 00:29:40,740
If we lose Vietnam,
they're just as close.

659
00:29:40,740 --> 00:29:40,980
If we lose Vietnam,
We're not. We're not.

660
00:29:40,980 --> 00:29:41,780
We're not. We're not.

661
00:29:48,020 --> 00:29:49,980
McKAY: It wasn't until
you were personally involved

662
00:29:49,980 --> 00:29:52,620
that you started
to take an interest, you know?

663
00:29:52,620 --> 00:29:54,940
19-, 20-year-old men
full of testosterone,

664
00:29:54,940 --> 00:29:55,180
playing footy, rowing boats,
19-, 20-year-old men
full of testosterone,

665
00:29:55,180 --> 00:29:56,380
playing footy, rowing boats,

666
00:29:56,380 --> 00:30:00,900
surf clubs, dances on weekends,
girls,

667
00:30:00,900 --> 00:30:05,260
beer, all of that sort of thing
took priority

668
00:30:05,260 --> 00:30:05,500
beer, all of that sort of thing
took priority
before geopolitical matters.

669
00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:07,300
before geopolitical matters.

670
00:30:10,100 --> 00:30:14,700
THOMPSON: I liked cars and trucks
and all the boy stuff.

671
00:30:14,700 --> 00:30:14,940
THOMPSON: I liked cars and trucks
And I lived near a council yard

672
00:30:14,940 --> 00:30:18,340
And I lived near a council yard

673
00:30:18,340 --> 00:30:21,380
and all their heavy equipment
was parked there.

674
00:30:21,380 --> 00:30:21,660
And we had a family friend
who worked on the wharves
and all their heavy equipment
was parked there.

675
00:30:21,660 --> 00:30:24,660
And we had a family friend
who worked on the wharves

676
00:30:24,660 --> 00:30:27,420
in Melbourne, crane operator.

677
00:30:27,420 --> 00:30:30,540
And he happened to say to me,
"Look, if you want to do that,

678
00:30:30,540 --> 00:30:34,660
"get into the army and they'll
teach you how to drive it."

679
00:30:34,660 --> 00:30:34,900
"get into the army and they'll
teach you how to drive it."
So I made my inquiries

680
00:30:34,900 --> 00:30:36,220
So I made my inquiries

681
00:30:36,220 --> 00:30:40,220
and discovered I had to join
the Corps of Engineers

682
00:30:40,220 --> 00:30:43,220
and with a view
to becoming a plant operator.

683
00:30:43,220 --> 00:30:46,300
And so I took
all the appropriate steps.

684
00:30:46,300 --> 00:30:46,540
And so I took
When I was about...

685
00:30:46,540 --> 00:30:48,540
When I was about...

686
00:30:48,540 --> 00:30:51,820
I was about 18.5 at the time

687
00:30:51,820 --> 00:30:54,100
and joined the army

688
00:30:54,100 --> 00:30:56,220
and don't regret a day of it.

689
00:31:17,780 --> 00:31:23,500
I remember the day that this photo
was taken, and that was in about...

690
00:31:23,500 --> 00:31:23,740
I remember the day that this photo
..19...

691
00:31:23,740 --> 00:31:27,420
..19...

692
00:31:27,420 --> 00:31:30,020
..69.

693
00:31:31,660 --> 00:31:36,700
Well, there's a young boy,
a very young lad,

694
00:31:36,700 --> 00:31:41,780
that looks out of place
in an army uniform.

695
00:31:44,340 --> 00:31:45,380
Mmm.

696
00:32:05,900 --> 00:32:08,860
EKINS: In this initial stage,
one Australian battalion

697
00:32:08,860 --> 00:32:09,140
being attached
to an American brigade
EKINS: In this initial stage,
one Australian battalion

698
00:32:09,140 --> 00:32:12,820
being attached
to an American brigade

699
00:32:12,820 --> 00:32:14,580
was not going to make
an enormous difference

700
00:32:14,580 --> 00:32:16,860
to the outcome
of the war in Vietnam.

701
00:32:16,860 --> 00:32:17,140
to the outcome
of the war in Vietnam.
Remember I was a boy from
the western suburbs of Sydney.

702
00:32:17,140 --> 00:32:20,540
Remember I was a boy from
the western suburbs of Sydney.

703
00:32:20,540 --> 00:32:23,620
We didn't know too much
about guns, mate,

704
00:32:23,620 --> 00:32:27,300
or when I was conscripted, yeah,
that...

705
00:32:34,340 --> 00:32:39,540
Troops from First Battalion
Royal Australian Regiment, 1RAR,

706
00:32:39,540 --> 00:32:45,260
all regular army,
arrived in Vietnam in June 1965.

707
00:32:45,260 --> 00:32:49,780
# That's when I get the shakes
all over me... #

708
00:32:49,780 --> 00:32:52,340
EKINS: They were well trained,
well prepared,

709
00:32:52,340 --> 00:32:52,580
EKINS: They were well trained,
very experienced in the main.

710
00:32:52,580 --> 00:32:54,180
very experienced in the main.

711
00:32:54,180 --> 00:32:57,580
They had really done lots of work
in counter-insurgency.

712
00:32:57,580 --> 00:33:01,660
Counter-revolutionary warfare
was one of the standard doctrines

713
00:33:01,660 --> 00:33:04,220
in the Australian arsenal,
if you like.

714
00:33:04,220 --> 00:33:08,340
What they weren't prepared for was
the scale and nature of the war.

715
00:33:12,540 --> 00:33:15,980
BORGER: We arrived at Saigon
at Tan Son Nhat Airport

716
00:33:15,980 --> 00:33:19,540
and saw all these planes
and jets taking off.

717
00:33:19,540 --> 00:33:23,540
And it was just, "Jeez, this
is...this is what a war looks like."

718
00:33:26,940 --> 00:33:29,660
The Australians
were terribly equipped.

719
00:33:29,660 --> 00:33:34,620
They had outmoded uniforms, boots,
equipment of all kinds,

720
00:33:34,620 --> 00:33:38,060
very little
in the way of mechanical aids.

721
00:33:38,060 --> 00:33:40,380
DR LOCKHART: They couldn't work out
what they were supposed to do,

722
00:33:40,380 --> 00:33:42,900
and the early troops anyway,
couldn't get the supplies

723
00:33:42,900 --> 00:33:45,500
and equipment
that they felt they needed.

724
00:33:45,500 --> 00:33:48,540
You know, their shirts,
their uniforms, their tents

725
00:33:48,540 --> 00:33:51,060
were sort of rotting in the monsoon
and so on.

726
00:33:57,380 --> 00:34:00,340
Some officers from the battalion
did was got in a jeep

727
00:34:00,340 --> 00:34:02,380
with a trailer on it,

728
00:34:02,380 --> 00:34:02,620
went down to an American base
at Vung Tau
with a trailer on it,

729
00:34:02,620 --> 00:34:03,700
went down to an American base
at Vung Tau

730
00:34:03,700 --> 00:34:06,500
and said, "We're here to pick up
the Australian stores."

731
00:34:06,500 --> 00:34:06,780
and said, "We're here to pick up
the Australian stores."
And so they flogged five 50 calibre
machine guns and a water truck.

732
00:34:06,780 --> 00:34:10,780
And so they flogged five 50 calibre
machine guns and a water truck.

733
00:34:10,780 --> 00:34:14,140
Now, I understand, I don't know
if this story is apocryphal or not,

734
00:34:14,140 --> 00:34:16,380
but that the Americans
opened fire on them.

735
00:34:18,180 --> 00:34:20,060
But they got back to base.

736
00:34:23,300 --> 00:34:27,580
Meanwhile, the signals officer
had taken a load of slouch hats

737
00:34:27,580 --> 00:34:29,180
and shower buckets to Saigon

738
00:34:29,180 --> 00:34:32,300
to barter for field telephones
and communications equipment

739
00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:36,500
so they could communicate around
the perimeter of the task force base

740
00:34:36,500 --> 00:34:40,580
# In this dirty old part
of the city... #

741
00:34:40,580 --> 00:34:44,100
NEWSREEL: Australian soldiers
on patrol in Vietnam.

742
00:34:44,100 --> 00:34:46,940
Two minutes ago,
there were five shots

743
00:34:46,940 --> 00:34:47,180
Two minutes ago,
about 300 yards away in the jungle.

744
00:34:47,180 --> 00:34:49,540
about 300 yards away in the jungle.

745
00:34:49,540 --> 00:34:51,260
Friendly or enemy?

746
00:34:52,260 --> 00:34:55,460
# We gotta get out
of this place... #

747
00:34:55,460 --> 00:34:55,700
# We gotta get out
We had to defend that whole area

748
00:34:55,700 --> 00:34:57,540
We had to defend that whole area

749
00:34:57,540 --> 00:35:00,700
where they intended to put
the task force in.

750
00:35:00,700 --> 00:35:03,780
Not only was it mentally tough,
it was physically tough.

751
00:35:03,780 --> 00:35:06,260
And when we were,
in establishing our footprint,

752
00:35:06,260 --> 00:35:09,100
the only way we could defend
ourselves was patrol.

753
00:35:09,100 --> 00:35:09,340
the only way we could defend
Patrol. Patrol. Patrol.

754
00:35:09,340 --> 00:35:10,660
Patrol. Patrol. Patrol.

755
00:35:10,660 --> 00:35:15,500
# Girl, there's a better life
for me and you. #

756
00:35:19,700 --> 00:35:21,180
REPORTER: Sir Robert Menzies
bows out

757
00:35:21,180 --> 00:35:21,420
REPORTER: Sir Robert Menzies
of the Australian political scene.

758
00:35:21,420 --> 00:35:23,260
of the Australian political scene.

759
00:35:23,260 --> 00:35:25,260
This is how it was today,

760
00:35:25,260 --> 00:35:27,380
as Sir Robert Menzies
arrived at Parliament House

761
00:35:27,380 --> 00:35:29,700
to attend a meeting
of the government parties

762
00:35:29,700 --> 00:35:32,460
to tell them
of his intention to resign.

763
00:35:32,460 --> 00:35:38,420
Robert Menzies finally stepped down
as Prime Minister in January 1966.

764
00:35:38,420 --> 00:35:42,420
Harold Holt was elected unopposed
to succeed him.

765
00:35:42,420 --> 00:35:45,460
MAN: When Menzies retired,
he was 70 years old.

766
00:35:45,460 --> 00:35:48,260
And he'd been prime minister
for 16 years

767
00:35:48,260 --> 00:35:48,540
and the government had become
more and more moribund
And he'd been prime minister
for 16 years

768
00:35:48,540 --> 00:35:51,660
and the government had become
more and more moribund

769
00:35:51,660 --> 00:35:56,260
and Menzies had become less and less
interested in new challenges.

770
00:35:57,540 --> 00:36:04,740
One becomes tired, one becomes
not quite 100% in efficiency.

771
00:36:05,940 --> 00:36:07,500
And I have an old-fashioned belief

772
00:36:07,500 --> 00:36:12,580
that the Prime Minister of this
country ought to be 100% efficient.

773
00:36:12,580 --> 00:36:14,340
CURRAN: There was a sense
that Menzies was tired,

774
00:36:14,340 --> 00:36:14,580
CURRAN: There was a sense
that it was time for him to go,

775
00:36:14,580 --> 00:36:16,900
that it was time for him to go,

776
00:36:16,900 --> 00:36:19,300
that the Coalition needed

777
00:36:19,300 --> 00:36:22,940
a fresher, younger style
of leadership,

778
00:36:22,940 --> 00:36:23,220
and they certainly got that
in Harold Holt.
a fresher, younger style
of leadership,

779
00:36:23,220 --> 00:36:25,420
and they certainly got that
in Harold Holt.

780
00:36:25,420 --> 00:36:27,260
Harold Holt essentially continued,

781
00:36:27,260 --> 00:36:31,180
if not increased
Australia's commitment to Vietnam.

782
00:36:31,180 --> 00:36:31,460
if not increased
Australia's commitment to Vietnam.
The need for Australian
participation in Vietnam

783
00:36:31,460 --> 00:36:37,180
The need for Australian
participation in Vietnam

784
00:36:37,180 --> 00:36:37,420
The need for Australian
is, I believe, well understood

785
00:36:37,420 --> 00:36:39,660
is, I believe, well understood

786
00:36:39,660 --> 00:36:39,900
by an overwhelming majority
is, I believe, well understood

787
00:36:39,900 --> 00:36:43,620
by an overwhelming majority
of Australians

788
00:36:43,620 --> 00:36:43,860
by an overwhelming majority
and supported by them.

789
00:36:43,860 --> 00:36:46,180
and supported by them.

790
00:36:46,180 --> 00:36:50,460
Holt came in with great enthusiasm
for the commitment.

791
00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:56,580
He seemed to be initiating
increases in the commitment,

792
00:36:56,580 --> 00:36:59,700
which surprised
even his closest advisers.

793
00:36:59,700 --> 00:36:59,940
which surprised
He didn't seem to realise

794
00:36:59,940 --> 00:37:01,940
He didn't seem to realise

795
00:37:01,940 --> 00:37:06,020
that the policy
was not an unlimited commitment,

796
00:37:06,020 --> 00:37:09,700
that it was a matter
of committing sufficient forces

797
00:37:09,700 --> 00:37:09,980
to have credibility
with the Americans.
that it was a matter
of committing sufficient forces

798
00:37:09,980 --> 00:37:12,660
to have credibility
with the Americans.

799
00:37:12,660 --> 00:37:19,260
But keeping that commitment
as low as we conveniently could.

800
00:37:19,260 --> 00:37:19,540
But keeping that commitment
as low as we conveniently could.
With the new Prime Minister
came a new approach,

801
00:37:19,540 --> 00:37:22,940
With the new Prime Minister
came a new approach,

802
00:37:22,940 --> 00:37:27,820
a separate base
of operations for Australian troops.

803
00:37:27,820 --> 00:37:32,460
A major rethink came about
through senior commanders

804
00:37:32,460 --> 00:37:32,700
A major rethink came about
like General John Wilton,

805
00:37:32,700 --> 00:37:34,580
like General John Wilton,

806
00:37:34,580 --> 00:37:39,300
who had been resisting all along
the use of the Australians

807
00:37:39,300 --> 00:37:43,540
in any form of mobile warfare
with American units.

808
00:37:43,540 --> 00:37:48,620
The proposal was to insert another
two battalions into a task force

809
00:37:48,620 --> 00:37:53,180
with its own
independent area of operations.

810
00:37:53,180 --> 00:37:57,020
This took a lot of discussion
and consideration.

811
00:37:57,020 --> 00:37:57,260
This took a lot of discussion
In the end, what Wilton settled on

812
00:37:57,260 --> 00:37:59,500
In the end, what Wilton settled on

813
00:37:59,500 --> 00:38:01,380
was the province of Phuoc Tuy,

814
00:38:01,380 --> 00:38:01,620
which had advantages
was the province of Phuoc Tuy,

815
00:38:01,620 --> 00:38:03,860
which had advantages
of various kinds.

816
00:38:03,860 --> 00:38:07,140
It had a seaport
for ready access through Vung Tau.

817
00:38:10,100 --> 00:38:12,420
The selection of Phuoc Tuy province
is interesting

818
00:38:12,420 --> 00:38:14,780
because I think the government
didn't want Australians

819
00:38:14,780 --> 00:38:16,380
to go up into the north,
for example,

820
00:38:16,380 --> 00:38:18,380
where there would have been
bigger battles

821
00:38:18,380 --> 00:38:18,620
where there would have been
and, therefore, greater casualties.

822
00:38:18,620 --> 00:38:20,100
and, therefore, greater casualties.

823
00:38:20,100 --> 00:38:22,580
The Australians, because of
the national service component,

824
00:38:22,580 --> 00:38:24,540
were extremely worried about
casualties

825
00:38:24,540 --> 00:38:29,260
and so they wanted a province
they thought was relatively quiet.

826
00:38:29,260 --> 00:38:32,060
And Phuoc Tuy
seemed to fit the bill.

827
00:38:34,020 --> 00:38:36,940
It was possible to build a base

828
00:38:36,940 --> 00:38:39,740
right in the centre
of this province,

829
00:38:39,740 --> 00:38:39,980
right in the centre
which became the fixation, almost,

830
00:38:39,980 --> 00:38:42,380
which became the fixation, almost,

831
00:38:42,380 --> 00:38:46,460
that there would be a base
around a hill known as Nui Dat,

832
00:38:46,460 --> 00:38:50,380
Dirt Hill, right in the middle
of the province.

833
00:38:50,380 --> 00:38:53,860
It would allow the Australians
to operate independently

834
00:38:53,860 --> 00:38:58,020
and practise their own form
of counter-insurgency operations.

835
00:38:58,020 --> 00:38:58,260
and practise their own form
That was the basis of this change.

836
00:38:58,260 --> 00:39:02,140
That was the basis of this change.

837
00:39:02,140 --> 00:39:06,700
It would require a vast amount
of work before it came into being.

838
00:39:06,700 --> 00:39:11,540
The operation to clear the area
was dubbed 'Hardihood'.

839
00:39:11,540 --> 00:39:16,100
Operation Hardihood commenced
possibly 10 days after we arrived.

840
00:39:16,100 --> 00:39:19,660
Two townships, two small villages
had to be destroyed

841
00:39:19,660 --> 00:39:19,900
Two townships, two small villages
and the displaced people relocated.

842
00:39:19,900 --> 00:39:22,860
and the displaced people relocated.

843
00:39:22,860 --> 00:39:26,540
That became a thorn in the side
of the task force

844
00:39:26,540 --> 00:39:28,140
for the next five, six years.

845
00:39:28,140 --> 00:39:31,220
The two villages of Long Tan
and Long Phuoc,

846
00:39:31,220 --> 00:39:31,460
The two villages of Long Tan
they were razed to the ground.

847
00:39:31,460 --> 00:39:33,260
they were razed to the ground.

848
00:39:33,260 --> 00:39:39,540
The people and their gardens and
vegetables and farms were destroyed.

849
00:39:42,260 --> 00:39:47,180
So, you had a population
of about 5,000 dispossessed people,

850
00:39:47,180 --> 00:39:47,420
So, you had a population
very discontented,

851
00:39:47,420 --> 00:39:49,300
very discontented,

852
00:39:49,300 --> 00:39:53,100
still trying to get back to their
original ancestral areas

853
00:39:53,100 --> 00:39:56,820
where the,
traditionally in Vietnamese culture,

854
00:39:56,820 --> 00:39:59,060
these places had a reverence for,

855
00:39:59,060 --> 00:40:03,340
the ancestors' bones would be buried
in the hearth of the village,

856
00:40:03,340 --> 00:40:03,580
the ancestors' bones would be buried
houses and so on,

857
00:40:03,580 --> 00:40:05,820
houses and so on,

858
00:40:05,820 --> 00:40:09,300
and they were denied access
to these areas.

859
00:40:12,580 --> 00:40:14,020
McKAY: It was pretty tough.

860
00:40:15,220 --> 00:40:18,540
But it was something
that had to be done.

861
00:40:19,660 --> 00:40:22,580
This was very, very ill considered

862
00:40:22,580 --> 00:40:24,980
you have to concede.

863
00:40:26,060 --> 00:40:30,980
And it left a stain really

864
00:40:30,980 --> 00:40:31,220
on the Australian involvement
And it left a stain really

865
00:40:31,220 --> 00:40:33,700
on the Australian involvement
at that stage.

866
00:40:35,220 --> 00:40:38,500
As the soldiers settled in
in Vietnam

867
00:40:38,500 --> 00:40:38,780
back home, other young men
were taking a different path.
As the soldiers settled in
in Vietnam

868
00:40:38,780 --> 00:40:43,420
back home, other young men
were taking a different path.

869
00:40:43,420 --> 00:40:43,700
back home, other young men
were taking a different path.
(READS) "I ask you,
as your commanding officer,

870
00:40:43,700 --> 00:40:45,940
(READS) "I ask you,
as your commanding officer,

871
00:40:45,940 --> 00:40:49,260
"to consider your position carefully
and to report as ordered

872
00:40:49,260 --> 00:40:52,860
"so as to avoid becoming liable
to the quite severe punishments

873
00:40:52,860 --> 00:40:53,100
"so as to avoid becoming liable
"which the law provides

874
00:40:53,100 --> 00:40:54,380
"which the law provides

875
00:40:54,380 --> 00:40:57,700
"for infringements
of military discipline."

876
00:40:57,700 --> 00:41:01,260
Mr White, does the telegram
at all change your plans now?

877
00:41:01,260 --> 00:41:04,020
No. I have made it clear
from July 18th,

878
00:41:04,020 --> 00:41:07,300
when I was dismissed
from my teaching position

879
00:41:07,300 --> 00:41:10,460
that I do not intend
to comply with the call-up notice,

880
00:41:10,460 --> 00:41:14,500
and I do not intend to present
myself to the military

881
00:41:14,500 --> 00:41:17,020
or to obey
any orders of a military nature.

882
00:41:17,020 --> 00:41:20,460
William White was a conscientious
objector and a teacher.

883
00:41:29,140 --> 00:41:33,420
William White's birthday was drawn
in the first conscription ballot

884
00:41:33,420 --> 00:41:35,740
held in March 1965.

885
00:41:35,740 --> 00:41:40,260
He was the first Australian
to fight his call-up notice.

886
00:41:40,260 --> 00:41:42,580
After refusing
to report for training,

887
00:41:42,580 --> 00:41:42,820
After refusing
he was sacked from his teaching job

888
00:41:42,820 --> 00:41:44,740
he was sacked from his teaching job

889
00:41:44,740 --> 00:41:48,780
and then arrested and incarcerated
at Holsworthy Army Base.

890
00:41:52,220 --> 00:41:56,300
He believed he would qualify
as a conscientious objector

891
00:41:56,300 --> 00:41:56,540
He believed he would qualify
opposed to all use of violence,

892
00:41:56,540 --> 00:41:59,220
opposed to all use of violence,

893
00:41:59,220 --> 00:42:03,220
and he was unsuccessful
in his conscientious objection case.

894
00:42:03,220 --> 00:42:05,220
# I ain't gonna go

895
00:42:05,220 --> 00:42:07,420
# Ain't gonna go

896
00:42:07,420 --> 00:42:09,460
# Hell no

897
00:42:09,460 --> 00:42:10,500
# Hell no... #

898
00:42:11,940 --> 00:42:15,820
His conscientious objection
was not on religious grounds,

899
00:42:15,820 --> 00:42:18,940
but on the immorality
of the Vietnam War.

900
00:42:18,940 --> 00:42:19,180
but on the immorality
of the Vietnam War.
So this, again, to me

901
00:42:19,180 --> 00:42:20,340
So this, again, to me

902
00:42:20,340 --> 00:42:24,100
was one of the great injustices
of conscription.

903
00:42:24,100 --> 00:42:28,140
The more rational and intelligent
and well-founded your objection was,

904
00:42:28,140 --> 00:42:31,380
the less likely it was
to be listened to.

905
00:42:32,580 --> 00:42:34,780
After protracted legal battles,

906
00:42:34,780 --> 00:42:37,020
Bill White eventually won the right

907
00:42:37,020 --> 00:42:37,260
to be recognised
Bill White eventually won the right

908
00:42:37,260 --> 00:42:40,300
to be recognised
as a conscientious objector.

909
00:42:40,300 --> 00:42:45,100
His stand inspired thousands
of others around the country.

910
00:42:45,100 --> 00:42:48,380
The lasting legacy of the stand
he took

911
00:42:48,380 --> 00:42:50,580
are the visuals,
are the photos that remain.

912
00:42:50,580 --> 00:42:53,820
The photos that were
on the front pages of newspapers

913
00:42:53,820 --> 00:42:57,580
which showed a schoolteacher,
a schoolteacher of all professions,

914
00:42:57,580 --> 00:43:00,700
being carried away by police
and arresting

915
00:43:00,700 --> 00:43:05,060
for ostensibly refusing to fight,
refusing to join the army.

916
00:43:05,060 --> 00:43:05,340
That showed you
what the state could do.
for ostensibly refusing to fight,
refusing to join the army.

917
00:43:05,340 --> 00:43:08,300
That showed you
what the state could do.

918
00:43:08,300 --> 00:43:12,700
And that sort of, you know,
that showed you the extent to which

919
00:43:12,700 --> 00:43:16,420
they could act
in a blatantly repressive way.

920
00:43:18,100 --> 00:43:20,700
SPEAKER: The proposition
that I have put to you...

921
00:43:20,700 --> 00:43:24,020
ALL: (CHANT) Release Bill White.
Release Bill White.

922
00:43:24,020 --> 00:43:24,260
ALL: (CHANT) Release Bill White.
(SPEECH DROWNED OUT BY CHANTS)

923
00:43:24,260 --> 00:43:28,540
(SPEECH DROWNED OUT BY CHANTS)

924
00:43:28,540 --> 00:43:32,140
Release Bill White.
Release Bill White.

925
00:43:36,340 --> 00:43:40,180
There are opponents
of the government

926
00:43:40,180 --> 00:43:44,260
who are quite afraid to hear
what the government has to say

927
00:43:44,260 --> 00:43:47,420
on national policies
of this country.

928
00:43:47,420 --> 00:43:47,660
The government didn't want trouble.
on national policies
of this country.

929
00:43:47,660 --> 00:43:49,140
The government didn't want trouble.

930
00:43:49,140 --> 00:43:51,620
The government didn't anticipate
an anti-war movement.

931
00:43:51,620 --> 00:43:54,740
And the government wanted to fight
a war, not an anti-war movement.

932
00:43:54,740 --> 00:43:56,620
The government
didn't want to be seen

933
00:43:56,620 --> 00:43:56,900
The government
didn't want to be seen
to be manhandling teachers out of
a schoolhouse into a jailhouse.

934
00:43:56,900 --> 00:44:00,580
to be manhandling teachers out of
a schoolhouse into a jailhouse.

935
00:44:00,580 --> 00:44:03,420
You know,
they were horrible pictures.

936
00:44:03,420 --> 00:44:08,340
And it's worth remembering
what a brave stand it was

937
00:44:08,340 --> 00:44:10,260
for someone like Bill White.

938
00:44:10,260 --> 00:44:11,940
What an unusual stand.

939
00:44:11,940 --> 00:44:14,660
How far away from
the Australian mainstream

940
00:44:14,660 --> 00:44:17,180
those early anti-war campaigners
were.

941
00:44:17,180 --> 00:44:19,420
I mean, people
thought they were mad.

942
00:44:25,420 --> 00:44:31,300
The first national serviceman to be
killed in Vietnam was Errol Noack.

943
00:44:31,300 --> 00:44:37,380
Errol Noack was conscripted in
the same March 1965 birthday ballot

944
00:44:37,380 --> 00:44:39,620
as Bill White.

945
00:44:39,620 --> 00:44:41,420
Errol Noack was a young man

946
00:44:41,420 --> 00:44:45,100
who lived on Kangaroo Island,
South Australia.

947
00:44:45,100 --> 00:44:45,340
who lived on Kangaroo Island,
He was a fisherman, farmer.

948
00:44:45,340 --> 00:44:46,860
He was a fisherman, farmer.

949
00:44:48,780 --> 00:44:55,100
He was
a churchgoing young Lutheran boy

950
00:44:55,100 --> 00:44:55,340
He was
who took his church seriously.

951
00:44:55,340 --> 00:44:57,580
who took his church seriously.

952
00:44:57,580 --> 00:45:00,140
He was dispatched

953
00:45:00,140 --> 00:45:05,460
along with many other
young Nashos in 5RAR.

954
00:45:05,460 --> 00:45:07,900
After his basic military training

955
00:45:07,900 --> 00:45:12,860
he joined 5th Battalion, 5RAR,
54th Royal Australian Regiment

956
00:45:12,860 --> 00:45:13,100
he joined 5th Battalion, 5RAR,
and went to Vietnam

957
00:45:13,100 --> 00:45:14,380
and went to Vietnam

958
00:45:14,380 --> 00:45:18,620
and played a part
in building the base in Vung Tau,

959
00:45:18,620 --> 00:45:20,380
which at the time was just a beach.

960
00:45:22,780 --> 00:45:26,660
EKINS: He was on the first operation

961
00:45:26,660 --> 00:45:30,460
where companies, in what is often
termed their shakedown operation,

962
00:45:30,460 --> 00:45:33,220
familiarise themselves
with the area.

963
00:45:33,220 --> 00:45:36,260
We hopped out of the helicopters

964
00:45:36,260 --> 00:45:39,700
and, you know, and young soldiers
thinking this is pretty cool,

965
00:45:39,700 --> 00:45:42,980
you know, out here patrolling
with live ammunition and weapons.

966
00:45:42,980 --> 00:45:47,420
You know, we patrol with the weapon,
the bullets up the spout.

967
00:45:47,420 --> 00:45:49,460
But safety catch on.

968
00:45:49,460 --> 00:45:52,700
So, it was...it's the real thing.

969
00:45:57,100 --> 00:46:00,100
Making their way through the scrub

970
00:46:00,100 --> 00:46:02,980
outside Nui Dat,

971
00:46:02,980 --> 00:46:03,220
still getting a feel
outside Nui Dat,

972
00:46:03,220 --> 00:46:06,020
still getting a feel
for the local landscape.

973
00:46:06,020 --> 00:46:09,260
Stopped
to refill their water bottles.

974
00:46:09,260 --> 00:46:09,500
I came back with that water
Stopped
to refill their water bottles.

975
00:46:09,500 --> 00:46:10,980
I came back with that water

976
00:46:10,980 --> 00:46:13,900
and distributed the water
amongst our section.

977
00:46:13,900 --> 00:46:14,180
and distributed the water
amongst our section.
Errol Noack, I'd walked over to him
and dropped his water off,

978
00:46:14,180 --> 00:46:17,780
Errol Noack, I'd walked over to him
and dropped his water off,

979
00:46:17,780 --> 00:46:20,380
and he said to me, "Borge,"
that was my nickname,

980
00:46:20,380 --> 00:46:23,580
he said, "What do you do
with these purifying tablets?"

981
00:46:23,580 --> 00:46:28,620
As I was explaining it to him,
John, who was on the machine gun,

982
00:46:28,620 --> 00:46:28,860
As I was explaining it to him,
called out to me.

983
00:46:28,860 --> 00:46:29,900
called out to me.

984
00:46:29,900 --> 00:46:31,380
He said, "Hit the deck, Borge."

985
00:46:31,380 --> 00:46:34,140
(MACHINE GUN FIRE)

986
00:46:35,580 --> 00:46:39,220
At that instant,
there was just a roar and a thud.

987
00:46:42,140 --> 00:46:45,340
Errol got thrown back behind me.

988
00:46:47,260 --> 00:46:50,140
Distance would have been
at least three metres, I would say,

989
00:46:50,140 --> 00:46:50,380
Distance would have been
maybe even more.

990
00:46:50,380 --> 00:46:51,740
maybe even more.

991
00:46:51,740 --> 00:46:54,900
But I actually heard the thud

992
00:46:54,900 --> 00:46:58,700
and I dived the other way
alongside John.

993
00:46:58,700 --> 00:46:58,940
and I dived the other way
I was the number two on the gun

994
00:46:58,940 --> 00:47:00,420
I was the number two on the gun

995
00:47:00,420 --> 00:47:03,020
and we started to return fire.

996
00:47:07,740 --> 00:47:09,060
Not knowing what to expect,

997
00:47:09,060 --> 00:47:10,900
I was thinking that all of a sudden

998
00:47:10,900 --> 00:47:13,100
the screaming hordes
would come out in front of us

999
00:47:13,100 --> 00:47:13,340
the screaming hordes
and run right over the top of us.

1000
00:47:13,340 --> 00:47:14,540
and run right over the top of us.

1001
00:47:14,540 --> 00:47:14,780
And I thought, "Jeez, this might
and run right over the top of us.

1002
00:47:14,780 --> 00:47:17,700
And I thought, "Jeez, this might
be the end of me right here."

1003
00:47:19,540 --> 00:47:23,140
My Section Commander,
George Gilbert,

1004
00:47:23,140 --> 00:47:28,020
he stood up and started yelling out,
"We're Australians."

1005
00:47:28,020 --> 00:47:29,540
With that, everything stopped.

1006
00:47:36,060 --> 00:47:38,660
Errol was laying behind us.

1007
00:47:39,820 --> 00:47:41,860
I looked at him.

1008
00:47:41,860 --> 00:47:45,020
He was grey. He was a sickly grey.

1009
00:47:45,020 --> 00:47:47,140
And he was...

1010
00:47:47,140 --> 00:47:51,660
He was calling out to God.
He was saying he was dying and...

1011
00:47:56,580 --> 00:47:58,340
He was quickly evacuated,

1012
00:47:58,340 --> 00:48:03,340
as quickly as they could get
an evacuation helicopter in nearby.

1013
00:48:03,340 --> 00:48:03,580
as quickly as they could get
But died on board the helicopter.

1014
00:48:03,580 --> 00:48:05,820
But died on board the helicopter.

1015
00:48:19,180 --> 00:48:21,860
Initially the government, the army,

1016
00:48:21,860 --> 00:48:22,100
said that it was a skirmish
Initially the government, the army,

1017
00:48:22,100 --> 00:48:26,700
said that it was a skirmish
with the Viet Cong.

1018
00:48:26,700 --> 00:48:30,860
In fact, it turned out to be another
unit of Australian infantry

1019
00:48:30,860 --> 00:48:31,100
In fact, it turned out to be another
had fired on Errol's patrol.

1020
00:48:31,100 --> 00:48:33,340
had fired on Errol's patrol.

1021
00:48:35,860 --> 00:48:37,500
This was deliberately covered up.

1022
00:48:38,860 --> 00:48:42,780
It was said that the reason
Errol had been shot

1023
00:48:42,780 --> 00:48:43,020
It was said that the reason
was that he stood up.

1024
00:48:43,020 --> 00:48:44,460
was that he stood up.

1025
00:48:45,900 --> 00:48:49,300
According to army doctrine,
you stay low.

1026
00:48:50,340 --> 00:48:53,820
Errol, the conscript, the man
who had not had the training,

1027
00:48:53,820 --> 00:48:56,060
the implication being
he didn't have the training.

1028
00:48:56,060 --> 00:48:59,740
He didn't have the dedication
of full-time professional soldiers.

1029
00:48:59,740 --> 00:49:04,500
Really? No. He was doing, you know,
stood up, got shot, his fault.

1030
00:49:04,500 --> 00:49:07,060
His comrades have since said
he did not stand up.

1031
00:49:07,060 --> 00:49:09,580
He did not...
That was not why he was shot.

1032
00:49:09,580 --> 00:49:10,900
It was not his fault.

1033
00:49:10,900 --> 00:49:12,540
Errol never got up.

1034
00:49:12,540 --> 00:49:18,780
They said he got up
after the contact was started.

1035
00:49:18,780 --> 00:49:19,020
They said he got up
Errol never had a chance.

1036
00:49:19,020 --> 00:49:20,060
Errol never had a chance.

1037
00:49:20,060 --> 00:49:23,020
He was hit, I would say,
by the first round,

1038
00:49:23,020 --> 00:49:24,780
first actual round that was fired.

1039
00:49:24,780 --> 00:49:26,740
That was...hit Errol.

1040
00:49:26,740 --> 00:49:31,620
Certainly would have had
significance to people back home.

1041
00:49:31,620 --> 00:49:34,140
The politicians
were certainly worried about it.

1042
00:49:34,140 --> 00:49:38,700
And I'm sure that when the news
got back to my mum,

1043
00:49:38,700 --> 00:49:40,740
she would have been horrified.

1044
00:49:42,500 --> 00:49:46,340
I don't...I never told mum that I,
when I was there

1045
00:49:46,340 --> 00:49:46,580
I don't...I never told mum that I,
that I was alongside Errol when...

1046
00:49:46,580 --> 00:49:48,860
that I was alongside Errol when...

1047
00:49:48,860 --> 00:49:49,100
I didn't want to cause her
that I was alongside Errol when...

1048
00:49:49,100 --> 00:49:51,660
I didn't want to cause her
any concern.

1049
00:50:14,060 --> 00:50:18,060
He was commemorated in two ways
after his death

1050
00:50:18,060 --> 00:50:21,300
in the task force
base that they were building,

1051
00:50:21,300 --> 00:50:25,300
the first Nasho was commemorated
in Noack Avenue.

1052
00:50:25,300 --> 00:50:27,740
That was...a sign was set up.

1053
00:50:27,740 --> 00:50:30,220
They had to build street signs
into this base

1054
00:50:30,220 --> 00:50:32,980
that was getting bigger and bigger
all the time.

1055
00:50:32,980 --> 00:50:33,260
that was getting bigger and bigger
all the time.
And in Adelaide, the Cross
of Sacrifice at The Australian...

1056
00:50:33,260 --> 00:50:37,500
And in Adelaide, the Cross
of Sacrifice at The Australian...

1057
00:50:37,500 --> 00:50:40,660
The South Australian War Memorial
on North Terrace in Adelaide

1058
00:50:40,660 --> 00:50:45,500
was defaced by graffiti
by protesters who wrote...

1059
00:50:47,140 --> 00:50:49,540
"Errol Wayne Noack,"

1060
00:50:49,540 --> 00:50:49,740
"Errol Wayne Noack,"
and a date,

1061
00:50:49,740 --> 00:50:50,900
and a date,

1062
00:50:50,900 --> 00:50:51,100
"His was not to reason why."
and a date,

1063
00:50:51,100 --> 00:50:52,860
"His was not to reason why."

1064
00:51:05,660 --> 00:51:07,660
DR CAHILL: Down where I live,

1065
00:51:07,660 --> 00:51:11,020
there's a major memorial
to the Vietnam War

1066
00:51:11,020 --> 00:51:14,540
with the list of all the people
on it who died.

1067
00:51:14,540 --> 00:51:14,780
with the list of all the people
And he's on it.

1068
00:51:14,780 --> 00:51:17,780
And he's on it.

1069
00:51:21,060 --> 00:51:24,700
And I look at that,
and all of the other names,

1070
00:51:24,700 --> 00:51:29,580
and that almost
makes me weep when I see him there.

1071
00:51:32,100 --> 00:51:34,340
BORGER: Yeah,
I shed a lot of tears now,

1072
00:51:34,340 --> 00:51:36,260
and I wouldn't have been
the only one.

1073
00:51:36,260 --> 00:51:36,500
and I wouldn't have been
I didn't express it to anyone.

1074
00:51:36,500 --> 00:51:37,700
I didn't express it to anyone.

1075
00:51:37,700 --> 00:51:37,940
It was something of my own,
I didn't express it to anyone.

1076
00:51:37,940 --> 00:51:41,460
It was something of my own,
you know,

1077
00:51:41,460 --> 00:51:46,460
there by yourself in a harbour,
you know, in a defensive position,

1078
00:51:46,460 --> 00:51:46,700
there by yourself in a harbour,
you know, and it's pouring rain

1079
00:51:46,700 --> 00:51:48,940
you know, and it's pouring rain

1080
00:51:48,940 --> 00:51:50,820
and you're living
like a mongrel dog.

1081
00:51:50,820 --> 00:51:53,380
You're missing home.
You're missing your parents.

1082
00:51:53,380 --> 00:51:55,700
Yeah.

1083
00:51:57,980 --> 00:51:59,140
Yeah.

1084
00:51:59,140 --> 00:52:01,740
And you know that the next day
you get up, it all starts again.

1085
00:52:03,540 --> 00:52:07,180
Met his father,
devastated about it all,

1086
00:52:07,180 --> 00:52:12,820
but he couldn't accept that his son
should say he was killed...

1087
00:52:14,740 --> 00:52:16,780
..by friendly fire. So...

1088
00:52:16,780 --> 00:52:21,620
One day in Vietnam or one day
in an operation and he's dead.

1089
00:52:21,620 --> 00:52:21,860
One day in Vietnam or one day
Why wouldn't he be bitter?

1090
00:52:21,860 --> 00:52:24,100
Why wouldn't he be bitter?

1091
00:52:24,100 --> 00:52:25,980
He wanted to feel proud
about his son,

1092
00:52:25,980 --> 00:52:28,220
and he should be proud about his son
because he done nothing wrong.

1093
00:52:35,300 --> 00:52:37,700
NEWSREEL: The Sydney sailed
in April

1094
00:52:37,700 --> 00:52:39,900
with 400 men
of the first task force.

1095
00:52:39,900 --> 00:52:43,660
They replace the 1st Battalion,
who came home in June.

1096
00:52:43,660 --> 00:52:48,340
When 1RAR sailed back to Australia
in June 1966

1097
00:52:48,340 --> 00:52:48,580
When 1RAR sailed back to Australia
after its one-year deployment,

1098
00:52:48,580 --> 00:52:50,260
after its one-year deployment,

1099
00:52:50,260 --> 00:52:53,220
the unit
returned to a hero's welcome.

1100
00:52:53,220 --> 00:52:57,380
Over 300,000 people turned out
to greet them in Sydney.

1101
00:53:02,780 --> 00:53:06,140
It's a reminder that, one,
that the war was very popular

1102
00:53:06,140 --> 00:53:09,260
and two, that soldiers, I think,
still have that central position

1103
00:53:09,260 --> 00:53:09,500
and two, that soldiers, I think,
in Australian sort of cultural life

1104
00:53:09,500 --> 00:53:11,180
in Australian sort of cultural life

1105
00:53:11,180 --> 00:53:14,340
and the sort of centrality
of the Anzac and things like that.

1106
00:53:17,660 --> 00:53:20,700
WOMAN: We had television on
for the news, as we always did,

1107
00:53:20,700 --> 00:53:25,820
and there was this great marching
column of soldiers through Sydney

1108
00:53:25,820 --> 00:53:30,140
and this woman on her own
just stepping out of the crowd.

1109
00:53:31,100 --> 00:53:33,700
NEWSREEL: Only one incident
marred the proceedings.

1110
00:53:33,700 --> 00:53:37,260
A young typist daubed with red paint
grabbed at the march leader,

1111
00:53:37,260 --> 00:53:40,060
Lieutenant Colonel Preece,
smearing his uniform.

1112
00:53:40,060 --> 00:53:43,620
Then she ran, clawing among
the first two ranks of soldiers

1113
00:53:43,620 --> 00:53:46,420
until she was dragged away
by a senior police officer.

1114
00:53:46,420 --> 00:53:48,940
Later fined
and put on a good behaviour bond,

1115
00:53:48,940 --> 00:53:50,780
she explained she had wanted to show

1116
00:53:50,780 --> 00:53:53,700
that some disagreed
with the war in Vietnam.

1117
00:53:54,900 --> 00:53:59,380
I was just transfixed
by this bravery and...

1118
00:54:01,100 --> 00:54:03,540
..metaphorical power of this action.

1119
00:54:05,020 --> 00:54:06,940
Uh, I thought it was wonderful.

1120
00:54:09,980 --> 00:54:13,500
She had on her own
decided this war was really immoral

1121
00:54:13,500 --> 00:54:13,740
She had on her own
and wanted to do something

1122
00:54:13,740 --> 00:54:15,020
and wanted to do something

1123
00:54:15,020 --> 00:54:15,260
and had planned this action
and wanted to do something

1124
00:54:15,260 --> 00:54:17,780
and had planned this action
completely alone.

1125
00:54:17,780 --> 00:54:21,100
I've never heard of anything
so brave.

1126
00:54:21,100 --> 00:54:26,860
Nadine Jensen
was not part of any organisation

1127
00:54:26,860 --> 00:54:27,100
Nadine Jensen
and when she was taken to court,

1128
00:54:27,100 --> 00:54:30,980
and when she was taken to court,

1129
00:54:30,980 --> 00:54:33,940
bedraggled and covered in red paint,

1130
00:54:33,940 --> 00:54:35,900
the judge just assumed she was mad.

1131
00:54:35,900 --> 00:54:38,660
The judge thought
she needed mental treatment.

1132
00:54:38,660 --> 00:54:41,540
Why would anyone do this?
They couldn't understand.

1133
00:54:41,540 --> 00:54:45,420
Obviously, Jensen's point,
Nadine's point,

1134
00:54:45,420 --> 00:54:46,860
was to show the blood

1135
00:54:46,860 --> 00:54:51,380
that was on the hands, in her mind,
of the Australian military.

1136
00:54:53,180 --> 00:54:56,220
But to, perhaps ordinary
conservative Australians,

1137
00:54:56,220 --> 00:54:59,460
there's a mad woman covered in
red paint running at some soldiers.

1138
00:54:59,460 --> 00:55:02,060
Nadine Jensen's lone protest

1139
00:55:02,060 --> 00:55:06,220
has had a lasting impact
in our cultural memory.

1140
00:55:09,260 --> 00:55:13,420
MAN: The issues that I had
when we came back from Vietnam,

1141
00:55:13,420 --> 00:55:18,820
the 7th Battalion, we marched up
George Street, come past Town Hall,

1142
00:55:18,820 --> 00:55:19,100
and it was this hairy under-armed,
bloody hippie sheila.
the 7th Battalion, we marched up
George Street, come past Town Hall,

1143
00:55:19,100 --> 00:55:22,700
and it was this hairy under-armed,
bloody hippie sheila.

1144
00:55:22,700 --> 00:55:26,340
She ran out with a can of red paint
and threw it on me

1145
00:55:26,340 --> 00:55:26,580
She ran out with a can of red paint
and a couple of mates.

1146
00:55:26,580 --> 00:55:28,860
and a couple of mates.

1147
00:55:28,860 --> 00:55:29,100
and a couple of mates.
She called us murderers,
child killers and rapists.

1148
00:55:29,100 --> 00:55:35,100
She called us murderers,
child killers and rapists.

1149
00:55:36,700 --> 00:55:40,020
You know, to come home
to something like that...

1150
00:55:40,020 --> 00:55:43,700
For someone in my country
saying that to us,

1151
00:55:43,700 --> 00:55:49,020
"murderers, child killers
and rapists," we didn't do that.

1152
00:55:49,020 --> 00:55:51,620
And we didn't deserve
someone like that to say it to us.

1153
00:55:53,780 --> 00:55:58,220
MAN: The hangover from Vietnam went
on for years and years and years.

1154
00:55:58,220 --> 00:56:00,380
It's just the way we were treated
when we came home.

1155
00:56:00,380 --> 00:56:00,620
It's just the way we were treated
We were treated just like dirt.

1156
00:56:00,620 --> 00:56:03,340
We were treated just like dirt.

1157
00:56:03,340 --> 00:56:03,580
Some of our fellows
We were treated just like dirt.

1158
00:56:03,580 --> 00:56:07,580
Some of our fellows
were drenched with red paint,

1159
00:56:07,580 --> 00:56:07,820
spat at, abused, you know.
Some of our fellows
were drenched with red paint,

1160
00:56:07,820 --> 00:56:11,820
spat at, abused, you know.

1161
00:56:11,820 --> 00:56:14,620
I remember a couple of drunken women
screaming at us

1162
00:56:14,620 --> 00:56:19,180
as we marched past a pub in,
not far from Garden Island.

1163
00:56:20,540 --> 00:56:26,540
It was just...just very, you know,
just really disappointing.

1164
00:56:28,140 --> 00:56:31,380
These sorts of stories
of anti-war abuse.

1165
00:56:31,380 --> 00:56:31,660
These have been circulating
in the broader community
These sorts of stories
of anti-war abuse.

1166
00:56:31,660 --> 00:56:33,900
These have been circulating
in the broader community

1167
00:56:33,900 --> 00:56:36,140
and in pop culture for decades now.

1168
00:56:36,140 --> 00:56:39,060
And they seem to represent
very real feelings

1169
00:56:39,060 --> 00:56:39,300
And they seem to represent
of alienation and exclusion.

1170
00:56:39,300 --> 00:56:41,620
of alienation and exclusion.

1171
00:56:41,620 --> 00:56:44,140
This sort of goes back
to the Anzac legend.

1172
00:56:44,140 --> 00:56:45,020
There was this expectation

1173
00:56:45,020 --> 00:56:48,740
that soldiers would be treated
as the pinnacle of masculinity,

1174
00:56:48,740 --> 00:56:48,980
that soldiers would be treated
that they would be celebrated.

1175
00:56:48,980 --> 00:56:50,780
that they would be celebrated.

1176
00:56:50,780 --> 00:56:54,100
And it sets up this expectation
when you speak about war in abstract

1177
00:56:54,100 --> 00:56:54,340
And it sets up this expectation
as this beautiful, heroic thing.

1178
00:56:54,340 --> 00:56:56,260
as this beautiful, heroic thing.

1179
00:56:56,260 --> 00:56:56,500
The reality when soldiers
as this beautiful, heroic thing.

1180
00:56:56,500 --> 00:56:58,740
The reality when soldiers
have been through something

1181
00:56:58,740 --> 00:56:58,980
The reality when soldiers
that they suffered through,

1182
00:56:58,980 --> 00:57:00,260
that they suffered through,

1183
00:57:00,260 --> 00:57:02,540
that was a struggle for them
and they come home

1184
00:57:02,540 --> 00:57:06,260
and they feel like the public's
not completely with them,

1185
00:57:06,260 --> 00:57:08,500
it's understandable
that they feel really let down.

1186
00:57:11,620 --> 00:57:12,660
Mmm.

1187
00:57:17,260 --> 00:57:21,940
DAPIN: Many, many veterans now talk
of being smeared with blood.

1188
00:57:21,940 --> 00:57:23,460
They say,
"We were smeared with blood.

1189
00:57:23,460 --> 00:57:23,700
They say,
"We were smeared with red paint."

1190
00:57:23,700 --> 00:57:25,540
"We were smeared with red paint."

1191
00:57:25,540 --> 00:57:28,180
When veterans speak of 'we' or 'I',

1192
00:57:28,180 --> 00:57:33,100
they are often speaking
of a kind of collective there.

1193
00:57:33,100 --> 00:57:35,620
They're speaking...they're speaking
both from a collective memory

1194
00:57:35,620 --> 00:57:37,620
and with a kind
of collective consciousness.

1195
00:57:37,620 --> 00:57:40,460
So, a lot of veterans might say,
you know,

1196
00:57:40,460 --> 00:57:40,700
So, a lot of veterans might say,
"I had red paint thrown on me."

1197
00:57:40,700 --> 00:57:42,940
"I had red paint thrown on me."

1198
00:57:42,940 --> 00:57:45,140
They don't mean
that they specifically

1199
00:57:45,140 --> 00:57:46,220
had red paint thrown on me.

1200
00:57:46,220 --> 00:57:49,180
They believe that their service
was doused in red paint.

1201
00:57:49,180 --> 00:57:51,460
They believe that their service
was doused in blood.

1202
00:57:51,460 --> 00:57:54,980
They believe that their service
was subject to a blood libel.

1203
00:57:54,980 --> 00:57:57,220
It's interesting as well,

1204
00:57:57,220 --> 00:58:00,780
although I suspect
just a coincidence

1205
00:58:00,780 --> 00:58:01,020
although I suspect
that it happened to be a woman,

1206
00:58:01,020 --> 00:58:03,740
that it happened to be a woman,

1207
00:58:03,740 --> 00:58:07,060
because if you look at the stories

1208
00:58:07,060 --> 00:58:10,300
that veterans tell about
the responses they get

1209
00:58:10,300 --> 00:58:11,420
when they got home,

1210
00:58:11,420 --> 00:58:14,500
it's often a woman
who's spitting on them.

1211
00:58:14,500 --> 00:58:16,700
It's often a woman
who's sneering at them.

1212
00:58:16,700 --> 00:58:20,020
It's often a woman
who's denigrating their service.

1213
00:58:20,020 --> 00:58:23,060
And that woman,
I've come to believe,

1214
00:58:23,060 --> 00:58:28,820
is often an imaginary
reiteration of Nadine Jensen.

1215
00:58:37,100 --> 00:58:39,340
They knew that if they called
on an Australian artillery,

1216
00:58:39,340 --> 00:58:41,580
they got them
where they wanted them.

1217
00:58:41,580 --> 00:58:42,940
You yell, we shell.

1218
00:58:42,940 --> 00:58:45,660
So developed the Battle of Long Tan.

1219
00:58:45,660 --> 00:58:45,900
So developed the Battle of Long Tan.
WOMAN: It was very obvious
that the war was wrong,

1220
00:58:45,900 --> 00:58:48,660
WOMAN: It was very obvious
that the war was wrong,

1221
00:58:48,660 --> 00:58:48,940
If you had taken an interest in it.
And I had.
WOMAN: It was very obvious
that the war was wrong,

1222
00:58:48,940 --> 00:58:51,820
If you had taken an interest in it.
And I had.

1223
00:58:51,820 --> 00:58:52,100
If you had taken an interest in it.
And I had.
They survived simply through
bravery. And sheer luck.

1224
00:58:52,100 --> 00:58:55,540
They survived simply through
bravery. And sheer luck.

1225
00:58:55,540 --> 00:58:55,780
They survived simply through
And they all knew it.

1226
00:58:55,780 --> 00:58:56,860
And they all knew it.

1227
00:58:56,860 --> 00:58:58,500
Captions by Red Bee Media

1228
00:58:58,500 --> 00:58:58,740
Copyright
Australian Broadcasting Corporation
Captions by Red Bee Media

1229
00:58:58,740 --> 00:59:00,700
Copyright
Australian Broadcasting Corporation