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GATES: I'm
Henry Louis Gates, Jr.

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Welcome to
"Finding Your Roots."

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In this episode,

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we'll meet actor Jesse Williams
and journalist Sunny Hostin.

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Two Americans who've
struggled to explain the

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diversity of their family trees.

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WILLIAMS: When people ask,

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which is the most
common question I've been

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asked my entire life is,

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"What are you?"

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GATES: Mm-hmm.

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WILLIAMS: Before anybody
tried to get to know me or

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talk to me,
just "What are you?"

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Like I'm this thing.

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Why don't you talk for 10
seconds and you'll find out.

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HOSTIN: It was a
constant question.

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GATES: Right.

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HOSTIN: Like, what are you?
What are you, what are you?

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And I would say, "I'm
Black and Puerto Rican."

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GATES: Mm-hmm.

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HOSTIN: Like, it was,
it just, natural,

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because if you,
if you just choose one,

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then you're denying...

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GATES: Half of you. Sure.

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HOSTIN: One parent and
half of your, your history.

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GATES: To uncover their roots,

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we've used
every tool available.

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Genealogists combed
through paper trails

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stretching back
hundreds of years...

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While DNA experts
utilized the latest advances

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in genetic analysis
to reveal secrets that have

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lain hidden
for generations.

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WILLIAMS: This took
a hell of a turn.

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GATES: And we've compiled
it all into a book of life.

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HOSTIN: It's heavy!

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GATES: Heavy!

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A record of
all of our discoveries...

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WILLIAMS: Oh, wow.

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GATES: And a window
into the hidden past.

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HOSTIN: I just can't
imagine how difficult it was.

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GATES: Mm-hmm.

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HOSTIN: You're trying
to protect your spouse,

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you're trying to
protect your children.

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GATES: Uh-huh.

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HOSTIN: You're trying
to keep everyone together.

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WILLIAMS: This is a
whole different background

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than I, than I
anticipated or understood.

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HOSTIN: It's incredible.

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How do you find
these things?

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GATES: Jesse and Sunny
know that their roots

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stretch back to
both Africa and to Europe.

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But neither of
them has any idea how

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complicated their
families actually were.

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In this episode,

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they're going
to meet those ancestors,

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Black and White,

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who will turn their
identities upside down.

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(theme music plays).

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♪ ♪

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(book closes).

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♪ ♪

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GATES: Sunny Hostin
is nobody to mess with.

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As a co-host
of "The View,"

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Sunny spends her
mornings breaking down

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legal issues for America.

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HOSTIN: I'll tell
you why you're wrong.

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GATES: Giving voice to
underdogs and the oppressed,

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with a passion
for social justice.

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HOSTIN: Of
sending out a message.

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GATES: But this hardened
fighter has a soft side.

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Sunny is the child of
an African American father

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and a Puerto Rican mother.

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The two shared a commitment
to bettering the world and

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Sunny absorbed their values.

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HOSTIN: My father always
reminds me of the fact

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that I would bring
home any stray animal that

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I could find,
including, you know,

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injured squirrels and
dogs I would find and strays,

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and then take care of them.

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GATES: When did you first
realize that you wanted

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to make an
impact on the world?

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HOSTIN: Oh, I was
probably seven or eight.

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GATES: Really?

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HOSTIN: Yeah. Yeah.

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That, you know, I,
growing up in the late '60s,

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early '70s, there
was just so much turmoil.

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GATES: Mm-hmm.

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HOSTIN: And my, my
mother especially was

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very politically active...

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GATES: Hmm.

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HOSTIN: Um, and would sort
of take me on marches and

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protests and stuff like that.

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GATES: Huh.

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HOSTIN: And I took it to heart.

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GATES: Sunny's "heart"
would lead her down

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a circuitous path...

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Searching for a way
to make an impact,

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she considered becoming
a journalist before setting

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her sights on the law.

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But after a successful stint
as a federal prosecutor,

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Sunny faced a
career crisis that

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would draw her back
to her original ambition.

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HOSTIN: I couldn't get
into the criminal division.

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I was only offered a
gig in the civil division.

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I didn't want to do that.

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And I, I went to a sort of
work-life balance conference,

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um, for Black lawyers,

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and I was like,

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"There is no real work-life
balance, in my opinion."

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But, um,
a producer was there,

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and she saw me,
and she heard me speak.

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And she said, "You
should do television."

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And I was like,

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"Well, from your
lips to God's ears,

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because that ship has sailed.

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Um, you know,
I'm a lawyer,

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and I'm just sort
of taking a sabbatical.

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I just had a baby.
I'm trying to figure it out.

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And, um, no one's
going to pluck me from

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obscurity at this point."

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And, uh, I was
late 30s, I think.

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And she was like, "You
may have been plucked."

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GATES: That moment changed
Sunny's life forever.

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Within weeks, she was
appearing on Court TV

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as a legal analyst for
the "Nancy Grace Show"

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HOSTIN: Emmett Till,
uh, James Byrd Jr. and then

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Trayvon Matin.

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GATES: The only obstacle,
ironically, was her name.

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Sunny's real first name is,
"Asuncion" a legacy of her

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Puerto Rican ancestry.

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But for Nancy Grace,
it was a tongue twister.

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HOSTIN: She struggled,
ev, uh, every take.

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It was like,
Asuncia, Asuncio...

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And I mean,
it was just so crazy.

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GATES: She couldn't get
that "on" in there.

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HOSTIN: She couldn't get it.

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And, and then she
said at the break,

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"Can I say something to you?"

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And I was like, "Uh, sure."

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She was like, "Do you
have another name?

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A nickname?
I don't know, you know?"

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And, and she just kept
at it and she was, like,

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basically telling me,
"You're very good at this."

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GATES: Mm-hmm.

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HOSTIN: "But that
name is not gonna fly."

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"You need to just go
by a nickname."

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And I said, "Well, my friends,
some friends in school,

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who couldn't
pronounce my name,

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called me Sunny,

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but no one in my
family calls me Sunny.

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I don't use it
professionally."

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GATES: Mm-hmm.
HOSTIN: You know.

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And the next segment,
I was Sunny Hostin and

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it's really interesting,
something about our world,

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my career took off.

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GATES: Yeah.

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HOSTIN: All of a sudden,
people remembered who I was.

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GATES: My second guest is
actor Jesse Williams,

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who came to fame on the hit
medical drama "Grey's Anatomy"

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and has since
become a star on both

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Broadway and in Hollywood.

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Much like Sunny Hostin,

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Jesse's parents have
diverse backgrounds.

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His father is
African American,

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while his mother's
roots lie in Europe.

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And just like Sunny,
Jesse's parents were

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intensely committed
to social justice.

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Indeed, to hear Jesse tell it,

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his childhood home
was a kind of training camp

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for political activists.

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WILLIAMS: They'd have
meetings and gatherings

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in the house.

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They would consistently
be talking about politics,

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what's happening
in the world,

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what's happening
in this country.

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Um, and it was, you know,
I grew up with a real

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consciousness
around working people,

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labor rights, just being
in service to Black folks

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and working people...

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GATES: So it sounds like your,

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your parents were interracial,
radical hippies.

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WILLIAMS: That's right,
that is an accurate description.

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GATES: My kind of people.
WILLIAMS: Yeah.

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GATES: My generation.
WILLIAMS: For real.

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GATES: Them's the
good old days, man.

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WILLIAMS: For real.

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GATES: Jesse not only
embraced his parents' views,

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he set out to
follow in their example.

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After graduating from
Temple University

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in Philadelphia, he
remained in the city teaching

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public high school,
while also aspiring to

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become a filmmaker
with a focus on

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African American history.

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He'd find his true
calling almost by accident.

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WILLIAMS: I dabbled
a little bit in, in modeling

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this one summer and
that, that agent offered a,

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you know, said,

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"Do you wanna come in
and read for 'The Sopranos'?"

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GATES: Hmm.

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WILLIAMS: And I did.
And I got called back.

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And in that process of
auditioning is when I realized,

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like, oh, I'm
telling the story, too.

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I kind of thought the actor
was the last thing you put in.

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GATES: Mm-hmm.
WILLIAMS: You know?

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You write it,
you produce it, you get a set

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and you tell them what
to say and they say it.

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GATES: Mm-hmm.

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WILLIAMS: But I could
say this 17 different ways.

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GATES: Mm-hmm.

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WILLIAMS: I can give a
completely different intention.

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I could change just an
intonation on that syllable.

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Whoa, I didn't realize.

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I'm late to
the party here,

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but that became fun and
interesting and it felt doable.

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And it felt, also, like,
um, uh, the margins were

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pretty decent if I, I could,
I could use the money.

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(laughs)

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GATES: Jesse would soon
have far fewer worries

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about "money."

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His 12 seasons on

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"Grey's Anatomy"
took care of that.

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But even so, Jesse retains
the idealism of his youth.

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He's deeply committed to
an array of social causes,

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sits on the board of
a civil rights advocacy group

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and has been an
active supporter of the

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Black Lives Matter movement.

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What's more, Jesse
remains fiercely devoted

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to his parents and profoundly
grateful for the unique

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foundation they gave him.

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WILLIAMS: Being a,
a, a product of a White

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New England family and
a Black Southern family,

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those divergent, those
very different experiences

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have been such a blessing.

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GATES: Mm-hmm.

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WILLIAMS: I've been,
I've had such a wealth of,

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of, um, of, of experiences
that have informed my sense

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of self and understanding
of this country,

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and social behaviors,

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and the meanings
underneath them.

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You know?

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GATES: Mm-hmm.

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WILLIAMS: And so, my
parents have had a hand

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in every
element of my success.

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It's their success.

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GATES: Mm-hmm.

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00:10:12,466 --> 00:10:14,933
WILLIAMS: It is purely
an extension of what

247
00:10:14,933 --> 00:10:17,066
they poured into me.

248
00:10:18,166 --> 00:10:19,766
GATES: Meeting my guests,

249
00:10:19,766 --> 00:10:22,100
it was clear that
both had been shaped by

250
00:10:22,100 --> 00:10:24,333
their progressive parents.

251
00:10:24,666 --> 00:10:27,666
Now it was time to look
at their roots to try to

252
00:10:27,666 --> 00:10:32,566
uncover ancestors who may
have influenced them as well,

253
00:10:32,833 --> 00:10:37,333
even if those ancestors lived
far more conventional lives.

254
00:10:38,066 --> 00:10:40,500
I started with
Jesse Williams,

255
00:10:40,500 --> 00:10:43,300
and with his mother,
Johanna Chase.

256
00:10:44,700 --> 00:10:47,100
Jesse knew that
Johanna's maternal line

257
00:10:47,100 --> 00:10:49,133
led back to Sweden,

258
00:10:49,133 --> 00:10:52,366
but the details of
that line had been forgotten.

259
00:10:53,033 --> 00:10:55,966
We set out to recover
them and started with

260
00:10:55,966 --> 00:10:58,833
the woman who brought
the line to America.

261
00:10:59,100 --> 00:11:01,233
Jesse's second
great-grandmother,

262
00:11:01,233 --> 00:11:03,766
Inga Sofia Ekström.

263
00:11:05,233 --> 00:11:07,000
WILLIAMS: "The little
baby girl from Burseryd,

264
00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:08,533
Inga Sofia.

265
00:11:08,533 --> 00:11:11,066
Parents organist
and school teacher,

266
00:11:11,066 --> 00:11:13,566
heir A. M. Extrom

267
00:11:13,566 --> 00:11:16,400
and his wife, Lovisa,
Johann's daughter.

268
00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:17,633
GATES: Mm-hmm.

269
00:11:17,633 --> 00:11:19,200
WILLIAMS: 19 years old.

270
00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,266
GATES: That is your
great-great-grandmother's

271
00:11:21,266 --> 00:11:22,400
birth certificate.

272
00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:23,600
WILLIAMS: Wow.

273
00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,233
GATES: And she was born
on April Fool's Day, 1855

274
00:11:26,233 --> 00:11:29,233
in Burseryd Perish
in Sweden and

275
00:11:29,233 --> 00:11:31,866
you can see where
Burseryd Parish is on the map.

276
00:11:31,866 --> 00:11:32,966
WILLIAMS: Yeah.

277
00:11:32,966 --> 00:11:34,366
GATES: Have you ever
been anywhere near there?

278
00:11:34,366 --> 00:11:36,566
WILLIAMS: I've been
to Stockholm once, uh,

279
00:11:36,566 --> 00:11:40,366
maybe five years ago, my
first and only time in Sweden.

280
00:11:41,066 --> 00:11:43,300
GATES: Well, that's where
your people are from, man.

281
00:11:43,300 --> 00:11:44,400
WILLIAMS: Wow.

282
00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:45,700
GATES: That is your
ancestral home.

283
00:11:45,700 --> 00:11:48,733
JESSE WILLIAMS:
Wow. I had no idea.

284
00:11:48,733 --> 00:11:50,833
Burseryd Parish.

285
00:11:51,633 --> 00:11:54,466
GATES: Burseryd is a
tiny farming parish

286
00:11:54,466 --> 00:11:56,733
in western Sweden.

287
00:11:56,733 --> 00:12:00,533
By 1855,
the year Inga was born,

288
00:12:00,533 --> 00:12:04,200
her family had lived
in the area for centuries.

289
00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,266
Inga would likely have
spent her life here, too,

290
00:12:07,266 --> 00:12:11,066
were it not for the fact
that she was a gifted singer,

291
00:12:11,066 --> 00:12:13,866
and that changed everything.

292
00:12:14,766 --> 00:12:20,400
In the spring of 1871,
Inga left Burseryd to study at

293
00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,066
the prestigious
Royal Music Academy

294
00:12:23,066 --> 00:12:25,133
in Stockholm.

295
00:12:26,166 --> 00:12:28,600
WILLIAMS: I drove past
the Royal Music Academy.

296
00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:29,633
I've seen it.

297
00:12:29,633 --> 00:12:31,066
I did not know that
I had a family member

298
00:12:31,066 --> 00:12:32,200
who'd studied there.

299
00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:33,666
GATES: So this was
not a family story

300
00:12:33,666 --> 00:12:34,766
that was passed down?

301
00:12:34,766 --> 00:12:36,833
WILLIAMS: Not to,
not to my, not to me.

302
00:12:36,833 --> 00:12:40,333
GATES: She moved more
than 250 miles away from

303
00:12:40,333 --> 00:12:43,100
home when she was
only 16 years old.

304
00:12:43,100 --> 00:12:44,700
WILLIAMS: Wow.
GATES: Can you imagine?

305
00:12:44,700 --> 00:12:46,166
WILLIAMS: Wow, wow.
GATES: What are you feeling?

306
00:12:46,166 --> 00:12:47,200
This is a big deal.

307
00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:48,533
WILLIAMS: Yeah,
it is a big deal.

308
00:12:48,533 --> 00:12:49,833
It is a big deal.

309
00:12:49,833 --> 00:12:51,433
Um, yeah.

310
00:12:51,433 --> 00:12:56,466
It's, it's incredible
to imagine and, and all,

311
00:12:56,700 --> 00:13:00,133
so looking back and
understanding what came

312
00:13:00,133 --> 00:13:02,000
of, you know, how, what,
how our family developed,

313
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:07,166
but to think about her
having no idea what, what

314
00:13:07,166 --> 00:13:10,033
is to come, um, in
generations ahead and

315
00:13:10,033 --> 00:13:12,233
just setting out,

316
00:13:12,733 --> 00:13:14,633
just setting out to
pursue your craft and

317
00:13:14,633 --> 00:13:17,166
try to make a
life for yourself,

318
00:13:17,166 --> 00:13:20,766
especially away from
your family, um, in the arts.

319
00:13:23,033 --> 00:13:25,866
GATES: When Inga
enrolled in the Royal Academy,

320
00:13:25,866 --> 00:13:30,366
the school had only been
open to women for 15 years

321
00:13:31,100 --> 00:13:35,033
and opportunities for female
musicians were quite limited,

322
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,700
but Inga didn't
seem to care about that.

323
00:13:38,700 --> 00:13:42,700
In 1873, when she
was still a teenager,

324
00:13:43,366 --> 00:13:45,500
Inga joined what
became known as the

325
00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:48,233
"Swedish Ladies Quartet"

326
00:13:48,233 --> 00:13:50,533
and began to tour Europe.

327
00:13:50,900 --> 00:13:53,366
Just three years later,
the group arrived in

328
00:13:53,366 --> 00:13:56,933
America to
considerable fanfare.

329
00:13:58,833 --> 00:14:01,100
WILLIAMS: "It is safe to
say that in all its long

330
00:14:01,100 --> 00:14:04,066
and honorable career,
no performance has occurred

331
00:14:04,066 --> 00:14:07,200
in every respect
so perfect as was this.

332
00:14:07,733 --> 00:14:10,666
The Swedish Ladies sang
the difficult part songs

333
00:14:10,666 --> 00:14:13,900
of Schumann artistically
and with surprising effect.

334
00:14:14,166 --> 00:14:16,733
The quaint national
songs which they gave in the

335
00:14:16,733 --> 00:14:19,700
last half of the concert
were charmingly sung, and

336
00:14:19,700 --> 00:14:21,400
elicited a hearty encore."

337
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,200
GATES: Not a bad review.

338
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:24,533
WILLIAMS: Not at all.

339
00:14:24,533 --> 00:14:26,500
That's a wonderful review.

340
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,100
GATES: Inga performed with
the New York Philharmonic,

341
00:14:29,100 --> 00:14:31,000
the oldest symphony
orchestra in the United States,

342
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,366
and her quartet was a smash.

343
00:14:33,366 --> 00:14:34,466
What do you think
she was feeling?

344
00:14:34,466 --> 00:14:36,366
Was she terrified,
exhilarated?

345
00:14:36,366 --> 00:14:38,033
WILLIAMS: I think both.

346
00:14:38,033 --> 00:14:40,133
I think certainly
exhilarated and

347
00:14:40,133 --> 00:14:43,333
at some level,
we're all terrified, uh,

348
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,333
when you're putting
your neck out there.

349
00:14:45,333 --> 00:14:48,866
So, so that's, that's
bravery and you know what?

350
00:14:49,133 --> 00:14:51,133
The more I look at her
the more I see a couple

351
00:14:51,133 --> 00:14:52,833
members of her
family in her face.

352
00:14:52,833 --> 00:14:56,133
Actually, yeah.
It looks like my cousin.

353
00:14:57,500 --> 00:14:59,733
GATES: This
concert was the beginning of

354
00:14:59,733 --> 00:15:03,666
an extended tour that
would take Inga's quartet

355
00:15:03,666 --> 00:15:07,066
to some of the largest
stages in the United States.

356
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:12,733
It would also prove to be the
high point of Inga's career.

357
00:15:13,700 --> 00:15:18,433
In 1883, six years
after arriving in America,

358
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,366
she married a
fellow Swede in Chicago,

359
00:15:22,366 --> 00:15:26,766
started a family,
and saw the quartet disband.

360
00:15:28,733 --> 00:15:30,700
So what does that tell
you about what it was like

361
00:15:30,700 --> 00:15:32,500
to be a female
artist in those days?

362
00:15:32,500 --> 00:15:34,033
WILLIAMS: Right. Right.

363
00:15:34,033 --> 00:15:37,866
You become a, I imagine,
some degree of a kept woman

364
00:15:37,866 --> 00:15:42,133
or you're, uh, your
aspirations are, uh,

365
00:15:42,133 --> 00:15:45,400
subject to the
man's aspirations.

366
00:15:46,366 --> 00:15:48,133
GATES: Yeah, if she
were alive today,

367
00:15:48,133 --> 00:15:49,900
do you think she
would've wanted to do both,

368
00:15:49,900 --> 00:15:51,133
work and have a family?

369
00:15:51,133 --> 00:15:52,933
WILLIAMS: Yeah, I would
imagine especially when it

370
00:15:52,933 --> 00:15:55,433
seems to be bringing
you joy and success

371
00:15:55,433 --> 00:15:57,000
and you're this young.

372
00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:58,333
GATES: Mm-hmm.

373
00:15:58,333 --> 00:16:00,666
WILLIAMS: Wow.
This is mind-blowing.

374
00:16:00,666 --> 00:16:03,333
I did not know any of this.

375
00:16:06,633 --> 00:16:09,233
GATES: Inga and her
husband would eventually

376
00:16:09,233 --> 00:16:13,400
settle down in Minnesota,
where they raised five children.

377
00:16:14,533 --> 00:16:16,733
And though she
would never again perform on the

378
00:16:16,733 --> 00:16:21,633
big stages of her youth,
Inga did not abandon her gift.

379
00:16:22,566 --> 00:16:25,400
Records show that she
worked as a voice teacher,

380
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,733
and even gave
concerts as a soloist.

381
00:16:30,500 --> 00:16:32,600
WILLIAMS: It brings
me joy to see that she

382
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,066
continued with music,
not just as a teacher,

383
00:16:35,066 --> 00:16:36,700
but she was able
to still perform.

384
00:16:36,700 --> 00:16:38,733
GATES: Yeah, despite the
fact that she had five kids.

385
00:16:38,733 --> 00:16:41,366
WILLIAMS: Uh-huh, wow.

386
00:16:41,366 --> 00:16:42,900
GATES: Do you think
you inherited anything

387
00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:44,666
from this ancestor?

388
00:16:44,666 --> 00:16:46,733
WILLIAMS: I'd like to
think I inherited some,

389
00:16:46,733 --> 00:16:51,333
um, some bravery, um,
some risk-taking, you know,

390
00:16:51,700 --> 00:16:54,800
ability and-and talent.

391
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:59,966
But I-I think that there,
um, to be able to set a

392
00:16:59,966 --> 00:17:03,533
course like that for
yourself and take advantage

393
00:17:03,533 --> 00:17:07,933
of the confidence
and faith of others,

394
00:17:07,933 --> 00:17:10,100
some, a lot of us can
get it and squander it.

395
00:17:10,100 --> 00:17:11,833
But to take advantage
of it and to honor it

396
00:17:11,833 --> 00:17:16,900
and to see it through, um,
at that time as a young woman.

397
00:17:17,300 --> 00:17:18,466
GATES: Mm-hmm.

398
00:17:18,466 --> 00:17:21,500
WILLIAMS: Yeah, that's pretty,
that's incredible.

399
00:17:23,766 --> 00:17:27,766
GATES: Inga's story illuminates
the joy of genealogy,

400
00:17:28,366 --> 00:17:31,466
showing how we can
find surprising connections

401
00:17:31,466 --> 00:17:34,200
to distant ancestors.

402
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,166
But turning to another
line of Jesse's family tree,

403
00:17:37,166 --> 00:17:42,033
we came to a man who would
elicit a very different emotion.

404
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,966
In the archives of
colonial Massachusetts,

405
00:17:45,966 --> 00:17:49,300
we saw that Jesse's
8th-great-grandfather,

406
00:17:49,300 --> 00:17:50,933
Joseph Herrick,

407
00:17:50,933 --> 00:17:54,900
was chosen to serve as
constable in the town of Salem

408
00:17:54,900 --> 00:17:57,800
in the year 1691.

409
00:17:58,833 --> 00:18:00,933
WILLIAMS: Wow.

410
00:18:00,933 --> 00:18:02,633
GATES: Any idea
what a constable did?

411
00:18:02,633 --> 00:18:05,333
WILLIAMS: Uh, no, I mean,
some-some local official

412
00:18:05,333 --> 00:18:08,433
with some-some regional
or local responsibility

413
00:18:08,433 --> 00:18:09,666
of some kind.

414
00:18:09,666 --> 00:18:11,633
GATES: Joseph had
to arrest residents of

415
00:18:11,633 --> 00:18:14,066
Salem who had been
accused of crimes.

416
00:18:14,066 --> 00:18:16,533
WILLIAMS: Oh, he's
police in some form?

417
00:18:16,533 --> 00:18:19,166
GATES: That's right.
WILLIAMS: Law enforcement.

418
00:18:19,366 --> 00:18:20,933
GATES: So let's see
what happened next.

419
00:18:20,933 --> 00:18:22,666
Please turn the page.

420
00:18:22,666 --> 00:18:23,966
WILLIAMS: Oh boy.

421
00:18:23,966 --> 00:18:28,500
GATES: Jesse, this is a warrant
taken on February 29th, 1692.

422
00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:30,966
Would you please read
that transcribed section?

423
00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:33,266
WILLIAMS: "Complaint on
behalf of Their Majesties

424
00:18:33,266 --> 00:18:35,833
against Sarah Osborne
and Tituba

425
00:18:35,833 --> 00:18:37,600
an Indian woman servant,

426
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,266
for suspicion of
witchcraft and thereby

427
00:18:40,266 --> 00:18:42,766
much injury done to
Elizabeth Parris,

428
00:18:42,766 --> 00:18:44,200
Abigail Williams,

429
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,033
Anna Putnam,
and Elizabeth Hubbard.

430
00:18:47,033 --> 00:18:49,066
GATES: This is a
warrant for two of the first

431
00:18:49,066 --> 00:18:51,766
women arrested
in the Salem witch trials.

432
00:18:51,766 --> 00:18:55,466
And your ancestor,
Jesse, arrested them.

433
00:18:55,466 --> 00:18:57,800
WILLIAMS: Whoa.
GATES: Yeah.

434
00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,866
WILLIAMS: Wow, wow, okay.

435
00:19:03,266 --> 00:19:07,100
GATES: Sarah Osborne
would die in her jail cell

436
00:19:07,933 --> 00:19:10,433
and, though Tituba
would be set free,

437
00:19:10,433 --> 00:19:13,600
this wasn't the end
of Joseph's involvement

438
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,066
in the infamous trials.

439
00:19:16,666 --> 00:19:18,833
A month later,
he took custody

440
00:19:18,833 --> 00:19:22,000
of two more women
accused of witchcraft:

441
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,266
Martha Corey
and Sarah Good.

442
00:19:25,666 --> 00:19:28,333
Both would be hanged
in the madness that

443
00:19:28,333 --> 00:19:31,933
followed and remarkably,

444
00:19:31,933 --> 00:19:35,700
Sarah was even related
to Joseph through marriage.

445
00:19:36,966 --> 00:19:39,933
What do you think Joseph's
thoughts were about the trials?

446
00:19:39,933 --> 00:19:42,200
Do you think he believed
he was doing right,

447
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,133
or do you think
this was all crazy and

448
00:19:44,133 --> 00:19:45,766
it was just a job
and he had to do it?

449
00:19:45,766 --> 00:19:48,333
WILLIAMS: We, you know,
I-I would, part of me

450
00:19:48,333 --> 00:19:51,700
would suspect that,
caught up in the momentum

451
00:19:51,700 --> 00:19:53,433
and the chatter
and gossip of this,

452
00:19:53,433 --> 00:19:55,466
there's probably some
belief that it's right and

453
00:19:55,466 --> 00:19:57,366
you're serving and protecting.

454
00:19:57,366 --> 00:19:58,633
GATES: Mm-hmm.

455
00:19:58,633 --> 00:20:00,300
WILLIAMS: The personal angle,

456
00:20:00,300 --> 00:20:02,000
the fact that
there's a relation,

457
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:03,600
does make me wonder
if there's some kind of

458
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:04,800
grudge or something.

459
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:05,966
GATES: Mm-hmm.

460
00:20:05,966 --> 00:20:07,066
WILLIAMS: And you just
throw her into the pot

461
00:20:07,066 --> 00:20:08,366
with everybody else.

462
00:20:08,366 --> 00:20:09,866
Or you do believe
it so much that,

463
00:20:09,866 --> 00:20:11,366
unfortunately, I,
you know, I've gotta...

464
00:20:11,366 --> 00:20:12,566
GATES: Mm-hmm.

465
00:20:12,566 --> 00:20:14,166
WILLIAMS: I've got to, um,
take you in even though,

466
00:20:14,166 --> 00:20:15,333
because for the greater good.

467
00:20:15,333 --> 00:20:16,500
GATES: Yeah.

468
00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:18,566
WILLIAMS: Yeah,
yeah, this is wild.

469
00:20:18,566 --> 00:20:19,866
GATES: I have a final thing
to show you about your

470
00:20:19,866 --> 00:20:21,300
8th-great-grandfather, Joseph.

471
00:20:21,300 --> 00:20:23,066
Please turn the page.

472
00:20:23,066 --> 00:20:25,166
We jumped ahead
about 26 years.

473
00:20:25,166 --> 00:20:28,200
This is a page of
Joseph's probate file.

474
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,633
He died on
February 4th, 1718.

475
00:20:31,633 --> 00:20:34,333
Would you please read
the transcribed section?

476
00:20:34,333 --> 00:20:37,933
WILLIAMS: "I give to my
son John my Negro woman

477
00:20:37,933 --> 00:20:40,466
Hannah after my
wife's death."

478
00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:43,400
GATES: Jesse, your
8th-great-grandfather

479
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,566
enslaved a woman
named Hannah.

480
00:20:45,566 --> 00:20:46,833
WILLIAMS: Wow.

481
00:20:46,833 --> 00:20:48,300
GATES: What's it
like to learn that?

482
00:20:48,300 --> 00:20:51,733
WILLIAMS: Wow,
I didn't know that.

483
00:20:52,233 --> 00:20:59,066
Okay, uh, that's
really interesting.

484
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,533
It doesn't, I can't
say it's astonishing.

485
00:21:04,533 --> 00:21:06,666
It's brand new information
I did not know.

486
00:21:06,666 --> 00:21:07,933
I, you know, you wonder.

487
00:21:07,933 --> 00:21:10,233
You always wonder,
of course.

488
00:21:10,233 --> 00:21:13,166
Um,

489
00:21:13,500 --> 00:21:15,300
it's also
interesting that her name

490
00:21:15,300 --> 00:21:18,833
is almost my
mom's name, Johanna.

491
00:21:18,833 --> 00:21:21,700
Um, wow.

492
00:21:23,466 --> 00:21:25,866
GATES: We don't know if
Hannah was the only human being

493
00:21:25,866 --> 00:21:28,833
whom Joseph held in bondage.

494
00:21:28,833 --> 00:21:32,500
All we do know is that
at the time of his death,

495
00:21:32,966 --> 00:21:35,033
he was a slave owner,

496
00:21:35,033 --> 00:21:39,800
leaving Jesse to contemplate
how he and his liberal-minded

497
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,966
mother had arisen
from such a source.

498
00:21:44,966 --> 00:21:46,300
What do you
make of this guy,

499
00:21:46,300 --> 00:21:47,733
of your ancestor?

500
00:21:47,733 --> 00:21:49,833
WILLIAMS: That's a...

501
00:21:50,133 --> 00:21:54,133
Well, he enslaved somebody.

502
00:21:55,300 --> 00:21:59,666
Uh, that's not a small,
medium, or a large thing.

503
00:21:59,666 --> 00:22:02,633
That's a catastrophic,
heinous thing.

504
00:22:02,633 --> 00:22:09,166
It's, um, it's, uh, complexing,
conflicting in, which is life.

505
00:22:10,133 --> 00:22:11,133
That's part of it.

506
00:22:11,133 --> 00:22:12,800
GATES: Mm-hmm.

507
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:17,966
WILLIAMS: Um, but uh,
I'm all the more proud of

508
00:22:17,966 --> 00:22:21,133
how far this family
has come since them.

509
00:22:21,766 --> 00:22:23,766
GATES: Mmm.
WILLIAMS: Yeah.

510
00:22:24,566 --> 00:22:26,600
GATES: Much
like Jesse Williams,

511
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,833
Sunny Hostin was
about to learn that her

512
00:22:28,833 --> 00:22:31,866
mother's family was
far more complicated

513
00:22:31,866 --> 00:22:34,700
than she'd ever imagined.

514
00:22:35,700 --> 00:22:39,133
The story begins with
her maternal grandmother:

515
00:22:39,133 --> 00:22:42,100
Virginia Romero Diaz.

516
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,566
Virginia was born in
Puerto Rico in 1924

517
00:22:46,566 --> 00:22:51,833
but settled in New York City
as a young woman and eventually

518
00:22:51,833 --> 00:22:55,066
played a major role
in Sunny's upbringing.

519
00:22:56,233 --> 00:22:58,466
HOSTIN: We were
very, very close.

520
00:22:58,466 --> 00:23:01,633
And um, the only words she
knew in English were,

521
00:23:01,633 --> 00:23:02,633
like, curse words.

522
00:23:02,633 --> 00:23:03,833
GATES: Mm-hmm.

523
00:23:03,833 --> 00:23:05,333
HOSTIN: And she would,
she would use those.

524
00:23:05,333 --> 00:23:08,000
You know, some people
would call it crass,

525
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,000
but she was a
real spitfire, man.

526
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:11,633
GATES: Mm-hmm.
HOSTIN: She really was.

527
00:23:11,633 --> 00:23:12,700
GATES: Hmm.

528
00:23:12,700 --> 00:23:14,466
Did she tell you
much about her life?

529
00:23:14,466 --> 00:23:16,533
HOSTIN: She did not
like speaking about

530
00:23:16,533 --> 00:23:17,933
her life, actually.

531
00:23:17,933 --> 00:23:21,366
And what was always
intriguing to me is that,

532
00:23:21,366 --> 00:23:26,400
um, I would go back to
Puerto Rico and, on vacation,

533
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,433
to learn more about the island.

534
00:23:28,433 --> 00:23:29,500
She never went back.

535
00:23:29,500 --> 00:23:31,800
GATES: Hmm.
HOSTIN: She never went back.

536
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,066
And she would
just say, you know,

537
00:23:34,066 --> 00:23:35,833
"Too many memories."

538
00:23:37,033 --> 00:23:39,966
GATES: Our researchers
now made the journey that

539
00:23:39,966 --> 00:23:43,266
Virginia had chosen to decline.

540
00:23:43,266 --> 00:23:45,766
And in the
archives in Puerto Rico,

541
00:23:45,766 --> 00:23:48,600
we uncovered her birth record,

542
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,533
which lists the
names of her parents:

543
00:23:51,900 --> 00:23:56,133
Agustín Romero Campos
and Anastacia Diaz.

544
00:23:56,933 --> 00:23:59,533
They're Sunny's
great-grandparents.

545
00:23:59,533 --> 00:24:01,800
HOSTIN: Wow.

546
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,833
GATES: They were married
in September of 1918,

547
00:24:04,833 --> 00:24:08,700
105 years ago, and
already had five children

548
00:24:08,700 --> 00:24:11,066
when Virginia
was born in 1924.

549
00:24:11,066 --> 00:24:12,900
HOSTIN: Really?
GATES: Mm-hmm.

550
00:24:12,900 --> 00:24:15,366
HOSTIN: So there were two,
two siblings I don't know about.

551
00:24:15,366 --> 00:24:17,433
GATES: Yeah.
HOSTIN: Wow.

552
00:24:17,433 --> 00:24:18,533
GATES: And um...

553
00:24:18,533 --> 00:24:19,766
HOSTIN: She never
mentioned that.

554
00:24:19,766 --> 00:24:21,666
GATES: If you look at
those photos on the left,

555
00:24:21,666 --> 00:24:23,500
at the time
of Virginia's birth,

556
00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:26,300
her family lived in
the barrio of La Perla,

557
00:24:26,300 --> 00:24:29,066
an impoverished community
located in Old San Juan.

558
00:24:29,066 --> 00:24:30,466
HOSTIN: Yes, mm-hmm.

559
00:24:30,466 --> 00:24:32,000
GATES: And you can see
photos of it on the left.

560
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,266
What's it
like to see that?

561
00:24:33,266 --> 00:24:36,100
HOSTIN: You know, I
made sure when I, um, first

562
00:24:36,100 --> 00:24:39,700
started going to Puerto Rico,
to visit La Perla.

563
00:24:39,700 --> 00:24:41,066
GATES: Oh, really?

564
00:24:41,066 --> 00:24:42,866
HOSTIN: Because my grandmother
was very proud of the fact that

565
00:24:42,866 --> 00:24:43,966
she was from there.

566
00:24:43,966 --> 00:24:45,166
GATES: Mm-hmm.

567
00:24:45,166 --> 00:24:46,366
HOSTIN: Which it,
it's right on the water.

568
00:24:46,366 --> 00:24:47,400
GATES: Mm-hmm.

569
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:48,500
HOSTIN: And La Perla
is the pearl.

570
00:24:48,500 --> 00:24:49,833
So it was supposed
to be the pearl of San Juan.

571
00:24:49,833 --> 00:24:51,166
GATES: Right.

572
00:24:51,166 --> 00:24:52,633
HOSTIN: But it was
a barrio as well.

573
00:24:52,633 --> 00:24:54,300
And in fact, the
first time I visited,

574
00:24:54,300 --> 00:24:56,400
the drug lords
wouldn't allow me entrance.

575
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,133
GATES: No kidding?
HOSTIN: Yes.

576
00:24:58,133 --> 00:25:00,500
Until they found out that
my grandmother was from there.

577
00:25:00,500 --> 00:25:01,533
GATES: Hm.

578
00:25:01,533 --> 00:25:03,233
HOSTIN: And then I was
able for a little while,

579
00:25:03,233 --> 00:25:05,366
with them escorting
me to walk around.

580
00:25:05,366 --> 00:25:06,433
GATES: Mm-hmm.

581
00:25:06,433 --> 00:25:07,600
HOSTIN: Just a bit,
there were certain places

582
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:08,600
I couldn't go.

583
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:09,933
GATES: Hmm.

584
00:25:09,933 --> 00:25:11,900
HOSTIN: Um, because it was,
they just sort of ruled it.

585
00:25:11,900 --> 00:25:14,666
Now recently, I went
back and it's been,

586
00:25:14,666 --> 00:25:16,000
been cleaned up a bit.

587
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:17,066
GATES: Hm.

588
00:25:17,066 --> 00:25:18,833
HOSTIN: So they're no
longer kind of ruling it.

589
00:25:18,833 --> 00:25:19,933
GATES: Hmm.

590
00:25:19,933 --> 00:25:21,566
HOSTIN: And um, you're
able to walk around this

591
00:25:21,566 --> 00:25:23,300
area a little more freely.

592
00:25:23,300 --> 00:25:24,766
But she was
very proud of that.

593
00:25:24,766 --> 00:25:25,966
GATES: Wow.

594
00:25:25,966 --> 00:25:27,966
HOSTIN: Um, and she was
like, "It makes you tough."

595
00:25:29,933 --> 00:25:34,033
GATES: Records in San Juan
show just how tough Virginia's

596
00:25:34,033 --> 00:25:36,933
childhood actually was...

597
00:25:37,133 --> 00:25:40,500
Revealing that she lost
three of her siblings before

598
00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:41,700
her tenth birthday.

599
00:25:42,900 --> 00:25:45,433
And then, in quick succession,

600
00:25:45,433 --> 00:25:49,833
saw both her mother
and her father pass away.

601
00:25:51,133 --> 00:25:52,833
HOSTIN: That's horrible.

602
00:25:52,833 --> 00:25:54,466
It's just one thing
after another for her.

603
00:25:54,466 --> 00:25:56,000
GATES: Yeah.

604
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:57,133
HOSTIN: Just one
thing after another.

605
00:25:57,133 --> 00:25:58,366
GATES: Yeah.

606
00:25:58,366 --> 00:26:02,000
HOSTIN: It makes a lot
more sense now that she

607
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,666
refused to go back.

608
00:26:03,666 --> 00:26:04,733
GATES: Mm-hmm.

609
00:26:04,733 --> 00:26:06,933
HOSTIN: I mean, I invited
her several times.

610
00:26:06,933 --> 00:26:09,100
You know, "Nanny, come"
I used to call her Nanny.

611
00:26:09,100 --> 00:26:11,066
"Nanny, come-come
to Puerto Rico.

612
00:26:11,066 --> 00:26:12,933
You know, I'll put
you up at the Ritz.

613
00:26:12,933 --> 00:26:14,166
It's gonna be great."

614
00:26:14,166 --> 00:26:16,666
Um, no-no desire.

615
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,066
GATES: Yeah.
HOSTIN: Zero.

616
00:26:19,066 --> 00:26:21,400
And no desire to talk about
her time there really either.

617
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,666
GATES: Well, all of this loss
occurred before the age of 12.

618
00:26:23,666 --> 00:26:25,433
HOSTIN: Yeah, I can't
imagine it, actually.

619
00:26:25,433 --> 00:26:28,633
GATES: Mmm-hmm.
HOSTIN: I can't imagine that.

620
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,800
GATES: Perhaps unsurprisingly,

621
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:36,366
the tragedy of Virginia's youth
gave way to an adulthood that

622
00:26:36,366 --> 00:26:39,000
was filled with challenges.

623
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,700
She had a very
brief relationship with

624
00:26:41,700 --> 00:26:43,800
Sunny's grandfather,

625
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,033
a man named
Augusto Beza Perez,

626
00:26:47,366 --> 00:26:50,033
before settling
into a solitary life in

627
00:26:50,033 --> 00:26:54,200
New York City and while
it was easy to understand

628
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,433
why Virginia had turned
her back on the past,

629
00:26:57,433 --> 00:26:59,666
in doing so,

630
00:26:59,666 --> 00:27:04,966
she left Sunny knowing almost
nothing about her deeper roots.

631
00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:09,466
We set out to restore
what had been lost,

632
00:27:09,700 --> 00:27:12,666
and traced Sunny's
grandfather Augusto

633
00:27:12,666 --> 00:27:17,400
back three generations
to a man named Fermín Beza.

634
00:27:18,133 --> 00:27:25,000
He lived in a region of
Puerto Rico known as Aguadilla.

635
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,166
You ever hear of him?

636
00:27:26,166 --> 00:27:28,633
HOSTIN: No.
GATES: Well, Fermín Beza,

637
00:27:28,633 --> 00:27:31,500
you just met your
great-great-great-grandfather.

638
00:27:31,500 --> 00:27:32,500
HOSTIN: Wow.

639
00:27:32,500 --> 00:27:34,700
GATES: Your third
great-grandfather.

640
00:27:34,700 --> 00:27:36,700
HOSTIN: I've never
heard the name, no.

641
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:41,100
GATES: Fermín died in
Aguadilla at the age of 63,

642
00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:44,500
which means he was
born 200 years ago,

643
00:27:44,500 --> 00:27:45,700
minus one year.

644
00:27:45,700 --> 00:27:48,033
HOSTIN: Wow.
GATES: He was born in 1824.

645
00:27:48,033 --> 00:27:49,333
HOSTIN: Wow.

646
00:27:49,333 --> 00:27:51,633
GATES: Did you know that you had
such deep roots in Aguadilla?

647
00:27:51,633 --> 00:27:55,633
HOSTIN: No-no, I know
when my-my mom learned

648
00:27:55,633 --> 00:27:57,233
that her father
was in Aguadilla.

649
00:27:57,233 --> 00:27:58,900
GATES: Mm-hmm.

650
00:27:58,900 --> 00:28:00,600
HOSTIN: But
other than that, no.

651
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,733
I mean, I've been there,
but I didn't know the

652
00:28:02,733 --> 00:28:05,033
roots went back that far.

653
00:28:07,166 --> 00:28:10,200
GATES: Sunny's roots in
Aguadilla were about to connect

654
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,000
her to some painful history.

655
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,300
Our researchers
discovered that her

656
00:28:16,300 --> 00:28:18,933
third great-grandfather Fermín

657
00:28:18,933 --> 00:28:22,500
was the son of a merchant
who was likely involved in

658
00:28:22,500 --> 00:28:24,633
the slave trade,

659
00:28:24,633 --> 00:28:29,233
and Fermín himself owned
at least one human being.

660
00:28:30,933 --> 00:28:34,233
What's more,
moving back on this line,

661
00:28:34,233 --> 00:28:38,066
we found that it
originates in Galicia, Spain,

662
00:28:38,066 --> 00:28:43,566
evidence of Sunny's deeper
ancestry and her family's ties

663
00:28:43,566 --> 00:28:46,466
to Spain's colonial past.

664
00:28:47,533 --> 00:28:50,900
What's it like to learn of this
tangible connection to Spain?

665
00:28:52,133 --> 00:28:54,300
HOSTIN: I married a Spaniard.

666
00:28:54,300 --> 00:28:56,100
Half Spanish, half Hatian.

667
00:28:56,100 --> 00:28:59,800
GATES: There you go.
HOSTIN: Um, wow.

668
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:01,666
I'm-I'm-I'm a
little bit in shock.

669
00:29:01,666 --> 00:29:04,133
I-I just always thought
of myself as Puerto Rican,

670
00:29:04,133 --> 00:29:05,766
you know,
half Puerto Rican.

671
00:29:05,766 --> 00:29:09,366
I didn't think I was, uh,
my family was originally

672
00:29:09,366 --> 00:29:11,400
from Spain and slaveholders.

673
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,400
GATES: Yeah. Yeah.

674
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,433
So how are you feeling,
my friend?

675
00:29:15,433 --> 00:29:18,333
HOSTIN: Um, I just,
um, I think it's actually

676
00:29:18,333 --> 00:29:21,866
pretty interesting
that, um, my husband

677
00:29:21,866 --> 00:29:23,100
and I have shared roots.

678
00:29:23,100 --> 00:29:24,166
GATES: Yeah.

679
00:29:24,166 --> 00:29:26,133
HOSTIN: So I, I
do appreciate that.

680
00:29:26,133 --> 00:29:28,266
Um, and I think it's
great for our children

681
00:29:28,266 --> 00:29:31,066
to know this information.

682
00:29:31,066 --> 00:29:35,500
Um, I guess it's a
fact of life that, uh,

683
00:29:35,500 --> 00:29:37,933
this is how some
people made their living...

684
00:29:38,166 --> 00:29:39,733
On the backs of others.

685
00:29:40,466 --> 00:29:43,100
GATES: Sunny's Beza
ancestors are not her

686
00:29:43,100 --> 00:29:44,733
only tie to Spain.

687
00:29:44,733 --> 00:29:46,933
Her mother's family
tree contains at least

688
00:29:46,933 --> 00:29:50,733
one other line to
Galicia and several lines

689
00:29:50,733 --> 00:29:54,066
to Spanish communities
in the Canary Islands.

690
00:29:54,966 --> 00:29:56,266
What's more...

691
00:29:56,266 --> 00:30:00,100
Sunny's own DNA testifies to
an even greater connection.

692
00:30:01,133 --> 00:30:03,533
Almost a quarter
of her admixture

693
00:30:03,533 --> 00:30:06,033
is from the
Iberian peninsula.

694
00:30:06,633 --> 00:30:09,633
A fact that took
Sunny by surprise.

695
00:30:11,266 --> 00:30:14,933
HOSTIN: I mean, I had no
idea of the Spanish roots

696
00:30:14,933 --> 00:30:16,300
to this extent.

697
00:30:16,300 --> 00:30:17,533
GATES: Mm-hmm.

698
00:30:17,533 --> 00:30:19,766
HOSTIN: I'm still sort of
shocked about the depth of the,

699
00:30:19,766 --> 00:30:22,266
the ties, I guess to Spain.

700
00:30:22,266 --> 00:30:23,900
GATES: What do you think
all these White people

701
00:30:23,900 --> 00:30:25,033
just came up out
of the ground?

702
00:30:25,033 --> 00:30:26,233
HOSTIN: I just...

703
00:30:26,233 --> 00:30:27,333
GATES: They had to
come from somewhere.

704
00:30:27,333 --> 00:30:29,566
HOSTIN: I'm just
kind of surprised.

705
00:30:29,566 --> 00:30:33,766
Um, I mean, my mother's
family does look White,

706
00:30:33,766 --> 00:30:34,900
so you know?

707
00:30:34,900 --> 00:30:37,166
GATES: What you
got against Spain?

708
00:30:37,633 --> 00:30:40,300
HOSTIN: Just the colonization
of the people, um...

709
00:30:40,300 --> 00:30:42,066
GATES: Ooh.

710
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,500
HOSTIN: But um, you know,
I'm, and I'm surprised

711
00:30:46,500 --> 00:30:48,066
that they were
enslavers, actually.

712
00:30:48,066 --> 00:30:50,066
GATES: Yeah.
HOSTIN: Um, that's...

713
00:30:50,066 --> 00:30:51,600
That's disappointing
and it's...

714
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:52,600
GATES: That's, that's
a lot to deal with.

715
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:53,766
HOSTIN: Yeah.

716
00:30:53,766 --> 00:30:55,033
GATES: Has it changed
anything about the way

717
00:30:55,033 --> 00:30:57,433
you think of your mother?

718
00:30:57,433 --> 00:31:01,400
HOSTIN: No, um,
my mother certainly

719
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:02,666
identifies as Puerto Rican.

720
00:31:02,666 --> 00:31:03,966
GATES: Right.

721
00:31:03,966 --> 00:31:08,666
HOSTIN: Um, and
non-White, actually.

722
00:31:09,066 --> 00:31:12,800
So I hate this for her.

723
00:31:15,500 --> 00:31:18,233
GATES: She, she's gonna
see how deeply White she is.

724
00:31:18,233 --> 00:31:19,833
HOSTIN: She is.

725
00:31:21,033 --> 00:31:23,333
GATES: We'd now traced
the European roots of

726
00:31:23,333 --> 00:31:25,300
both of my guests.

727
00:31:25,300 --> 00:31:28,333
It was time to focus on their
African-American roots.

728
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,700
For Jesse Williams, that
meant sending our researchers

729
00:31:33,700 --> 00:31:37,966
to Valdosta, a small city
in south-central Georgia.

730
00:31:38,966 --> 00:31:41,500
Jesse's father
was raised here,

731
00:31:41,500 --> 00:31:43,233
and his grandfather,

732
00:31:43,233 --> 00:31:45,433
a man named John Williams,

733
00:31:45,433 --> 00:31:48,333
was born in the
nearby town of Boston.

734
00:31:49,166 --> 00:31:52,400
But Jesse's knowledge of
this part of his family

735
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,633
ends with John's father,
Nathan Williams,

736
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,866
and Jesse was hoping
we could go further.

737
00:32:00,300 --> 00:32:03,466
We started with the
1920 census for Georgia,

738
00:32:04,366 --> 00:32:07,000
which shows Nathan
supporting his wife and

739
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,066
young children by
working in a lumber mill,

740
00:32:10,966 --> 00:32:13,800
a grueling
and dangerous job.

741
00:32:15,766 --> 00:32:18,000
WILLIAMS: Wow.

742
00:32:18,500 --> 00:32:20,400
GATES: Nathan likely
worked 10-hour days during

743
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,433
very busy seasons,
performing quite heavy labor,

744
00:32:24,233 --> 00:32:27,600
felling trees, or
loading logs for transport.

745
00:32:27,933 --> 00:32:30,233
Now, he's only three
generations away from you.

746
00:32:30,233 --> 00:32:31,233
WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.

747
00:32:31,233 --> 00:32:34,566
GATES: Can you imagine
that kind of life?

748
00:32:34,566 --> 00:32:38,100
WILLIAMS:
Uh, I, I can imagine it.

749
00:32:38,100 --> 00:32:40,833
I haven't done it, but I can,
I can imagine it.

750
00:32:40,833 --> 00:32:45,466
Um, particularly when
I spend time down there.

751
00:32:45,466 --> 00:32:48,766
I remember just growing
up going down to Georgia,

752
00:32:48,766 --> 00:32:51,300
and then hearing
stories about, you know,

753
00:32:51,300 --> 00:32:54,433
my father working in
a tobacco, uh, tannery,

754
00:32:54,433 --> 00:32:56,733
and family members
picking peaches and cotton.

755
00:32:56,733 --> 00:32:57,733
GATES: Mm-hmm.

756
00:32:57,733 --> 00:33:00,533
WILLIAMS: And
you know, you're,

757
00:33:00,533 --> 00:33:04,433
that kind of hard work is
something you hear a lot about.

758
00:33:04,433 --> 00:33:07,466
But uh, it's quite
something else to place

759
00:33:07,466 --> 00:33:09,366
a name and a
person with it,

760
00:33:09,366 --> 00:33:12,100
and, and think about
how hard he was working.

761
00:33:12,300 --> 00:33:13,533
GATES: Do you think a job
like that would put a strain

762
00:33:13,533 --> 00:33:14,666
on a marriage?

763
00:33:14,666 --> 00:33:15,866
WILLIAMS: I think a
job like that would put a

764
00:33:15,866 --> 00:33:18,100
strain on everything.

765
00:33:18,333 --> 00:33:20,866
GATES: Unfortunately,
Nathan would soon find

766
00:33:20,866 --> 00:33:24,700
his job and his
marriage too much to bear.

767
00:33:26,166 --> 00:33:30,633
By 1928, he had left
his family and had settled

768
00:33:30,633 --> 00:33:34,233
down with another
woman just 30 miles away,

769
00:33:34,933 --> 00:33:37,566
where he helped to
raise her children.

770
00:33:38,366 --> 00:33:40,233
WILLIAMS: Okay.

771
00:33:40,233 --> 00:33:41,766
GATES: And your
grandfather John was

772
00:33:41,766 --> 00:33:43,233
just eight years old
when this happened.

773
00:33:43,233 --> 00:33:44,966
WILLIAMS:
Right, right, okay.

774
00:33:44,966 --> 00:33:48,066
GATES: How do you think this
affected your grandfather?

775
00:33:48,066 --> 00:33:50,700
WILLIAMS: I, I would imagine
it affected him greatly,

776
00:33:50,700 --> 00:33:53,233
I mean, because
it also sounds like,

777
00:33:53,233 --> 00:33:55,100
to my understanding that,
from this point on,

778
00:33:55,100 --> 00:33:56,566
he was no longer
in the kids' life.

779
00:33:56,566 --> 00:33:58,000
GATES: Right.

780
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,300
WILLIAMS: So a
divorce is one thing,

781
00:34:00,300 --> 00:34:01,733
that's hard enough
even if you still maintain

782
00:34:01,733 --> 00:34:03,800
a relationship with your
parents in two households.

783
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,300
But when one is no longer,

784
00:34:06,300 --> 00:34:09,033
uh, with you, and you
have the knowledge,

785
00:34:09,033 --> 00:34:11,133
or do or don't have the
knowledge that they've

786
00:34:11,133 --> 00:34:13,700
gone on to start
another family, um,

787
00:34:13,700 --> 00:34:15,466
that can be
pretty devastating,

788
00:34:15,466 --> 00:34:17,700
um, especially
at that young age.

789
00:34:17,700 --> 00:34:19,066
Old enough
to remember him,

790
00:34:19,066 --> 00:34:21,833
and old enough to
feel the sense of loss.

791
00:34:22,366 --> 00:34:26,333
GATES: Nathan's departure
not only pained his son,

792
00:34:26,333 --> 00:34:30,000
it also put a tremendous
burden on his wife:

793
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,300
Jesse's great-grandmother,

794
00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:35,400
a woman named
Elvia Willams.

795
00:34:35,633 --> 00:34:40,000
Elvia had three children when
her husband moved out,

796
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,833
and no clear means of support.

797
00:34:43,533 --> 00:34:49,566
Ultimately, she found
work as a maid and by 1940,

798
00:34:49,566 --> 00:34:55,933
records show that Elvia
was earning $120 a year,

799
00:34:55,933 --> 00:34:59,233
roughly $6,000 today.

800
00:34:59,233 --> 00:35:02,400
It's a shockingly low wage,

801
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,566
but Elvia kept her
family together and close by.

802
00:35:07,533 --> 00:35:10,366
Indeed, she was living
just a few miles from her

803
00:35:10,366 --> 00:35:15,166
son John when she
passed away in 1952.

804
00:35:17,133 --> 00:35:20,933
She had to raise three children
alone after Nathan left her.

805
00:35:20,933 --> 00:35:22,766
So she must have
been a pretty tough lady.

806
00:35:22,766 --> 00:35:24,766
WILLIAMS: Yeah, yeah.

807
00:35:24,766 --> 00:35:26,366
GATES: Do you see
anything passed down to

808
00:35:26,366 --> 00:35:29,466
your grandfather or
to your father from her?

809
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:36,800
WILLIAMS: Um, well like,
almost all Black folks

810
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,200
who've made their way
through this time is,

811
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,066
you know, figuring
out how to stretch

812
00:35:41,066 --> 00:35:42,266
and be an alchemist.

813
00:35:42,266 --> 00:35:43,366
GATES: Mm-hmm.

814
00:35:43,366 --> 00:35:44,533
WILLIAMS: Make
something out of nothing

815
00:35:44,533 --> 00:35:46,366
over and over and
over and over again,

816
00:35:46,366 --> 00:35:48,200
and be able to
spread it to feed

817
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,200
as many mouths
as you need to.

818
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:54,966
And um, she did that
on $120 on a good year.

819
00:35:55,433 --> 00:35:57,766
GATES: Right, that's
hard to even imagine.

820
00:35:57,766 --> 00:36:00,733
WILLIAMS: In a good year.
Yeah, yeah.

821
00:36:02,766 --> 00:36:05,700
GATES: As it turns out,
Elvia was not the only

822
00:36:05,700 --> 00:36:07,900
survivor in her family.

823
00:36:08,466 --> 00:36:11,033
Moving back
two generations,

824
00:36:11,033 --> 00:36:13,100
we came to her grandfather,

825
00:36:13,466 --> 00:36:15,600
Jesse's third
great-grandfather,

826
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,700
a man named July Hadley.

827
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:24,300
July was born about 1828
in Georgia, which means he,

828
00:36:24,300 --> 00:36:27,500
almost certainly,
was born into slavery.

829
00:36:28,233 --> 00:36:30,433
Searching for
evidence of his life,

830
00:36:30,433 --> 00:36:33,133
we noticed that there
was a White slave owner

831
00:36:33,133 --> 00:36:35,866
in Georgia
named Samuel Hadley

832
00:36:35,866 --> 00:36:39,133
who died in 1851.

833
00:36:39,633 --> 00:36:42,500
Digging deeper,
we saw that Samuel's

834
00:36:42,500 --> 00:36:46,433
estate records
include a familiar name.

835
00:36:48,466 --> 00:36:50,833
WILLIAMS: "Inventory and
appraisement of the estate

836
00:36:50,833 --> 00:36:53,533
of Samuel H. Hadley,
deceased.

837
00:36:53,533 --> 00:36:58,733
One Negro man, July, $600."

838
00:37:00,833 --> 00:37:02,233
Well, there you go.

839
00:37:02,233 --> 00:37:03,533
GATES: Jesse, we
believe that that's your

840
00:37:03,533 --> 00:37:05,266
third great-grandfather.

841
00:37:05,266 --> 00:37:06,566
What's it
like to see this,

842
00:37:06,566 --> 00:37:09,733
the name of your
enslaved ancestor on the...

843
00:37:09,733 --> 00:37:12,800
This document where
he's being left like

844
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:13,866
a piece of property...

845
00:37:13,866 --> 00:37:15,400
WILLIAMS: Yeah.
GATES: Which legally he was.

846
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:16,700
WILLIAMS: Yeah.

847
00:37:16,700 --> 00:37:18,166
GATES: Similar to a-a
piece of furniture?

848
00:37:18,166 --> 00:37:19,300
WILLIAMS: Yeah.

849
00:37:19,300 --> 00:37:20,366
GATES: What's it
like to see that?

850
00:37:20,366 --> 00:37:25,000
WILLIAMS: Well, it gives us,
you know, it...

851
00:37:27,233 --> 00:37:29,000
It's helpful.

852
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,200
I take satisfaction
from knowing it and

853
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,300
seeing it and be able
to name it when it's been

854
00:37:34,300 --> 00:37:36,266
unnamed for so long,

855
00:37:36,266 --> 00:37:39,366
um, and name him
obviously when it's been,

856
00:37:39,366 --> 00:37:42,700
when he's unnamed
to me for so long, um.

857
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:48,633
So it gives me,
you know, someone

858
00:37:48,633 --> 00:37:51,800
and something to, to honor.

859
00:37:52,466 --> 00:37:55,166
GATES: Like almost
all enslaved people,

860
00:37:55,166 --> 00:37:59,200
July Hadley left very few
records behind.

861
00:37:59,433 --> 00:38:02,700
But we were able to learn a
little more about his life,

862
00:38:02,700 --> 00:38:06,566
starting with a map of the
estate where Samuel Hadley

863
00:38:06,566 --> 00:38:08,833
held him in bondage.

864
00:38:09,333 --> 00:38:12,600
We believe that July
likely worked this land

865
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,933
planting cotton and
perhaps unsurprisingly,

866
00:38:16,933 --> 00:38:21,000
the area was familiar to Jesse,
even today.

867
00:38:21,866 --> 00:38:25,066
WILLIAMS: Wow. And we're,
I mean, we are, you know,

868
00:38:25,066 --> 00:38:27,166
when I, all the time I
spent in my life down here

869
00:38:27,166 --> 00:38:29,100
in Lowndes County
with my family,

870
00:38:29,100 --> 00:38:30,600
um, it's very close.

871
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,800
We haven't geographically
gone very far since then.

872
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:34,600
GATES: Mm-hmm, no.
Same with my family.

873
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,200
WILLIAMS: You know?
Like we're right there.

874
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:37,433
They would say
a stone's throw,

875
00:38:37,433 --> 00:38:41,666
so I can and
will visit this land.

876
00:38:43,133 --> 00:38:44,633
And there's,
oh, I see Boston.

877
00:38:44,633 --> 00:38:45,800
GATES: Mm-hmm.

878
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:47,233
WILLIAMS: So that's
where my grandfather was born.

879
00:38:47,233 --> 00:38:49,900
GATES: Yes, that's right.

880
00:38:50,933 --> 00:38:56,566
WILLIAMS: Wow. Damn. Um...

881
00:38:59,700 --> 00:39:02,266
Hmm.

882
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,500
It-it-it makes me
wanna go touch it.

883
00:39:06,500 --> 00:39:09,133
It makes me
wanna go be there.

884
00:39:09,333 --> 00:39:14,500
GATES: July Hadley passed
away sometime around 1890,

885
00:39:14,500 --> 00:39:17,666
likely in the same part
of Georgia where he spent

886
00:39:17,666 --> 00:39:22,200
decades in slavery,
but there is a heart-warming

887
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,233
coda to his story.

888
00:39:25,966 --> 00:39:30,200
In the 1900 census,
we found July's son,

889
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,533
Isaac Hadley.

890
00:39:32,533 --> 00:39:35,800
Isaac is Jesse's
great-great-grandfather

891
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:40,666
and he, too, was almost
certainly born into slavery,

892
00:39:40,966 --> 00:39:44,133
but as this census shows,
when freedom came,

893
00:39:44,133 --> 00:39:46,633
Isaac transformed his life.

894
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,633
He learned to read,
became a landowner, married,

895
00:39:51,633 --> 00:39:54,333
and raised ten children.

896
00:39:56,833 --> 00:39:59,633
WILLIAMS: Wow.
Got a huge family,

897
00:40:00,233 --> 00:40:04,133
all this property,
can read and write.

898
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,966
This is a incredible
turn of events despite just

899
00:40:07,966 --> 00:40:10,133
unfathomable opposition.

900
00:40:10,133 --> 00:40:11,433
GATES: That's right.

901
00:40:11,433 --> 00:40:15,833
WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm, wow, wow.

902
00:40:16,433 --> 00:40:18,166
GATES: What's it
like to see that?

903
00:40:18,166 --> 00:40:22,000
WILLIAMS: I feel lucky to be
able to put a point on it and

904
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,733
be able to name it
and have a place on the map

905
00:40:24,733 --> 00:40:27,733
to point to,
something to explore further

906
00:40:27,733 --> 00:40:29,133
and share with my children.

907
00:40:29,133 --> 00:40:32,866
It's, it's so much
different to be able to

908
00:40:32,866 --> 00:40:36,233
have any level of,
any level of precision,

909
00:40:36,233 --> 00:40:38,633
any level of actual naming.

910
00:40:38,633 --> 00:40:40,833
So I can sit with
it and think about it

911
00:40:40,833 --> 00:40:42,566
and say his
name and um...

912
00:40:42,566 --> 00:40:44,433
GATES: Mm-hmm.

913
00:40:44,433 --> 00:40:46,900
WILLIAMS: And take
him with me now.

914
00:40:46,900 --> 00:40:48,266
GATES: Yeah.

915
00:40:48,266 --> 00:40:50,033
WILLIAMS: It's a big deal.

916
00:40:51,766 --> 00:40:53,900
GATES: Turning back
to Sunny Hostin,

917
00:40:53,900 --> 00:40:57,700
we set out to explore
her African American roots

918
00:40:57,700 --> 00:41:01,200
and focused first
on her grandmother,

919
00:41:01,733 --> 00:41:04,533
a woman named Mary Cummings.

920
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,066
Sunny knew her
grandmother well,

921
00:41:07,066 --> 00:41:10,233
but Mary rarely
spoke about her past.

922
00:41:10,233 --> 00:41:12,833
And Sunny knew
almost nothing about

923
00:41:12,833 --> 00:41:15,100
Mary's deeper roots.

924
00:41:15,500 --> 00:41:20,533
We set out to change that
and soon uncovered a secret.

925
00:41:22,733 --> 00:41:26,500
In the 1940 census for
Columbia County, Georgia,

926
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,000
we saw Mary listed
as a seven-year-old girl,

927
00:41:31,366 --> 00:41:34,233
living with four
siblings and her mother,

928
00:41:34,233 --> 00:41:36,100
Lilly May Green,

929
00:41:36,100 --> 00:41:38,566
in the home of
her mother's parents,

930
00:41:39,066 --> 00:41:43,266
but one significant
figure was notably absent.

931
00:41:43,900 --> 00:41:45,900
HOSTIN: Um,
who is missing?

932
00:41:45,900 --> 00:41:48,033
GATES: Lilly May was the
mother of all those children.

933
00:41:48,033 --> 00:41:50,333
HOSTIN: Right.
GATES: Who's the father?

934
00:41:50,333 --> 00:41:53,566
HOSTIN: Oh, yeah.

935
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,300
Because she's 25,
but living at home...

936
00:41:57,300 --> 00:41:58,600
GATES: Right.
HOSTIN: With her parents.

937
00:41:58,600 --> 00:41:59,933
GATES: With...
HOSTIN: With all those kids.

938
00:41:59,933 --> 00:42:01,600
GATES: All those kids.

939
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:03,066
HOSTIN: Very
understanding parents.

940
00:42:03,066 --> 00:42:04,500
GATES: Yeah.
HOSTIN: I guess.

941
00:42:04,500 --> 00:42:07,566
Unless they were all
on a farm together somewhere.

942
00:42:07,566 --> 00:42:10,233
GATES: Well, your grandmother,
Mary's father, is not listed.

943
00:42:10,233 --> 00:42:11,433
Do you know
anything about him?

944
00:42:11,433 --> 00:42:13,600
HOSTIN: No.
GATES: Hmm, okay.

945
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:14,733
HOSTIN: Not at all.
GATES: Please turn the page.

946
00:42:14,733 --> 00:42:16,033
HOSTIN: Oh, boy.

947
00:42:16,033 --> 00:42:17,566
I'm scared to
turn the page.

948
00:42:17,566 --> 00:42:19,100
Okay.

949
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,233
GATES: Mary's father was
a man named Robert Cummings.

950
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,933
And by the time the
1940 Census was recorded,

951
00:42:26,933 --> 00:42:30,466
Robert had left his
family never to return.

952
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,966
We believe that he and
Lilly may have separated

953
00:42:34,966 --> 00:42:39,900
sometime after 1937 when
their fifth child was born.

954
00:42:40,966 --> 00:42:43,333
So how do you imagine
their split affected

955
00:42:43,333 --> 00:42:44,800
your grandmother, Mary?

956
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:45,933
She was just a child.

957
00:42:45,933 --> 00:42:48,566
She would've been
between six and nine.

958
00:42:48,566 --> 00:42:50,333
HOSTIN: Well, I know she
was very close to her mother.

959
00:42:50,333 --> 00:42:51,766
GATES: Mm-hmm.

960
00:42:51,766 --> 00:42:54,033
HOSTIN: But she
didn't talk to me, at least.

961
00:42:54,033 --> 00:42:55,400
Maybe she spoke to my dad.

962
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,200
She didn't speak to me
much about her father.

963
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:58,200
GATES: Uh-huh.

964
00:42:58,200 --> 00:42:59,566
HOSTIN: So
that's pretty telling.

965
00:42:59,566 --> 00:43:00,700
GATES: Yeah.

966
00:43:00,700 --> 00:43:02,100
Have you heard anything
about Robert's life?

967
00:43:02,100 --> 00:43:03,633
HOSTIN: No.
GATES: After the split?

968
00:43:03,633 --> 00:43:05,333
HOSTIN: No.
GATES: No.

969
00:43:05,333 --> 00:43:06,400
Please turn the page.

970
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:08,000
(laughter).

971
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,500
HOSTIN: It feels like I'm
about to learn something.

972
00:43:12,066 --> 00:43:13,500
GATES: This is
his draft card.

973
00:43:13,500 --> 00:43:14,733
HOSTIN: Oh, wow.

974
00:43:14,733 --> 00:43:16,166
GATES: Would you please
read the transcribed section?

975
00:43:16,166 --> 00:43:17,333
HOSTIN:
"Robert Willie Cummings."

976
00:43:17,333 --> 00:43:18,466
GATES: Mm-hmm.

977
00:43:18,466 --> 00:43:20,000
HOSTIN: "Age 37.

978
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,233
Address,
Augusta Richmond, Georgia.

979
00:43:22,233 --> 00:43:23,833
Person who will always
know your address,

980
00:43:23,833 --> 00:43:25,433
Estella Hadley."

981
00:43:25,433 --> 00:43:26,566
Huh?

982
00:43:26,566 --> 00:43:29,200
"Place of employment,
Bell Aircraft Camp Gordon,

983
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,266
Augusta Richmond, Georgia."

984
00:43:31,266 --> 00:43:32,933
GATES: You're looking
at your great-grandfather's

985
00:43:32,933 --> 00:43:34,500
World War II
registration card.

986
00:43:34,500 --> 00:43:35,633
HOSTIN: Wow.

987
00:43:35,633 --> 00:43:37,166
GATES: By the
time this was recorded,

988
00:43:37,166 --> 00:43:40,266
Robert had moved to
Augusta and unfortunately

989
00:43:40,266 --> 00:43:43,266
this is the last
record we have of him.

990
00:43:44,133 --> 00:43:46,966
And we don't know what
happened to him after 1942.

991
00:43:47,766 --> 00:43:49,700
What have you heard
from your grandmother?

992
00:43:49,700 --> 00:43:51,766
What kind of relationship
did she and her siblings

993
00:43:51,766 --> 00:43:55,200
have with Robert
following their parents' split?

994
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:56,466
Not a word.

995
00:43:56,466 --> 00:43:58,100
HOSTIN: I don't recall her
ever saying anything about it.

996
00:43:58,100 --> 00:44:00,366
No.

997
00:44:00,366 --> 00:44:03,633
GATES: Well, even though
we can't trace Robert forward,

998
00:44:03,633 --> 00:44:05,966
we can trace Robert
backwards in time.

999
00:44:05,966 --> 00:44:07,600
HOSTIN: Okay.

1000
00:44:08,766 --> 00:44:11,433
GATES: Our search
led us to what's known as

1001
00:44:11,433 --> 00:44:13,200
Morrow Precinct,

1002
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:17,666
a tiny unincorporated hamlet
in Columbia County, Georgia.

1003
00:44:18,833 --> 00:44:22,300
Here, we found Robert as a
young man and discovered that

1004
00:44:22,300 --> 00:44:25,800
he too grew up without a father.

1005
00:44:27,066 --> 00:44:32,133
HOSTIN: "Cummings, Mandy.
Race, Black. Age, 55, single.

1006
00:44:32,133 --> 00:44:33,566
Place of birth, Georgia.

1007
00:44:33,566 --> 00:44:36,233
Occupation, farmer
general farm.

1008
00:44:36,233 --> 00:44:42,233
Robert W., son. Race, Black.
Age 15. Place of birth, Georgia.

1009
00:44:42,233 --> 00:44:44,033
GATES: There's your
great-grandfather, Robert,

1010
00:44:44,033 --> 00:44:47,233
at just 15 years old in
the household of his mother,

1011
00:44:47,233 --> 00:44:49,700
your great-great-grandmother,
Mandy Cummings.

1012
00:44:49,700 --> 00:44:51,000
HOSTIN: Mandy.

1013
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:52,000
GATES: Have you
ever heard of her?

1014
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:53,500
HOSTIN: Never. Wow.

1015
00:44:53,500 --> 00:44:55,033
GATES: Mandy, her
proper name was Amanda

1016
00:44:55,033 --> 00:44:57,866
was born sometime
between 1869 and 1871.

1017
00:44:57,866 --> 00:45:00,500
And as you can see
Amanda is listed as "single"

1018
00:45:00,500 --> 00:45:01,533
on that census.

1019
00:45:01,533 --> 00:45:02,600
HOSTIN: Yes.

1020
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:03,766
GATES: Your
great-grandfather,

1021
00:45:03,766 --> 00:45:05,966
Robert's father, is not
listed in the household.

1022
00:45:05,966 --> 00:45:07,166
HOSTIN: That's a pattern.

1023
00:45:07,166 --> 00:45:08,666
GATES: Unfortunately,
at this time,

1024
00:45:08,666 --> 00:45:13,033
we are unable, positively,
to identify Robert's father.

1025
00:45:13,033 --> 00:45:15,733
Amanda never appears
to have been married.

1026
00:45:15,733 --> 00:45:17,400
HOSTIN: That is a pattern.
GATES: Right.

1027
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:19,100
HOSTIN: Which is
crazy because, um,

1028
00:45:19,100 --> 00:45:20,633
I have such a great dad.

1029
00:45:20,633 --> 00:45:21,666
GATES: Mm-hmm.

1030
00:45:21,666 --> 00:45:23,100
HOSTIN: And I think
he wanted to make sure

1031
00:45:23,100 --> 00:45:24,300
to break this cycle.

1032
00:45:24,300 --> 00:45:25,433
GATES: Mm-hmm.

1033
00:45:25,433 --> 00:45:27,600
HOSTIN: I think that
was important to him.

1034
00:45:28,033 --> 00:45:31,233
GATES: This story was
about to take a surprising turn.

1035
00:45:32,066 --> 00:45:35,433
Moving back one
generation from Amanda,

1036
00:45:35,433 --> 00:45:39,033
we came to her father,
a man named Dean Harris.

1037
00:45:40,866 --> 00:45:44,066
Dean is Sunny's
third great-grandfather.

1038
00:45:44,066 --> 00:45:46,933
He was likely
born into slavery in

1039
00:45:46,933 --> 00:45:49,533
Columbia County, Georgia

1040
00:45:49,533 --> 00:45:53,433
around 1835,
and sometime after

1041
00:45:53,433 --> 00:45:57,366
emancipation he adopted
the surname "Cummings."

1042
00:45:58,700 --> 00:46:01,200
But that's not all he did.

1043
00:46:02,533 --> 00:46:04,066
HOSTIN: "Personally
appeared before me this

1044
00:46:04,066 --> 00:46:08,333
15th day of July 1867,
Dean Harris,

1045
00:46:08,333 --> 00:46:10,033
who makes oath as follows,

1046
00:46:10,033 --> 00:46:12,166
"I Dean Harris,
do solemnly swear

1047
00:46:12,166 --> 00:46:14,300
in the presence
of Almighty God that

1048
00:46:14,300 --> 00:46:17,233
I will faithfully
support the Constitution."

1049
00:46:18,033 --> 00:46:20,533
What?

1050
00:46:20,533 --> 00:46:23,666
Um, "And obey the laws of
the United States and will,

1051
00:46:23,666 --> 00:46:27,500
to the best of my ability,
encourage others so too."

1052
00:46:27,500 --> 00:46:30,800
Signed, Dean X. Harris,

1053
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:32,366
sworn to and
subscribed before me,

1054
00:46:32,366 --> 00:46:36,433
Registrar of the
25th Registration District.

1055
00:46:36,766 --> 00:46:38,233
Did he vote?

1056
00:46:38,233 --> 00:46:41,466
GATES: He registered to vote.

1057
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:49,000
HOSTIN: Wow, that's cool.

1058
00:46:55,966 --> 00:46:57,900
Wow.

1059
00:47:03,033 --> 00:47:05,233
Now you got me crying.

1060
00:47:05,900 --> 00:47:08,033
That's amazing.

1061
00:47:08,033 --> 00:47:10,933
In 1867 to
register to vote.

1062
00:47:10,933 --> 00:47:13,700
GATES: And he couldn't
even write his name.

1063
00:47:13,700 --> 00:47:15,000
The "X".

1064
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:16,833
He signed the
document with an "X".

1065
00:47:16,833 --> 00:47:21,600
HOSTIN: He signed with an "X".
Yeah, wow.

1066
00:47:23,900 --> 00:47:26,566
That's amazing.

1067
00:47:27,033 --> 00:47:30,933
GATES: Dean registered
to vote at a perilous time

1068
00:47:30,933 --> 00:47:32,900
in American history.

1069
00:47:33,333 --> 00:47:35,866
In the years
following the Civil War,

1070
00:47:35,866 --> 00:47:38,933
the Reconstruction Acts
gave Black men across

1071
00:47:38,933 --> 00:47:42,433
the former Confederacy
Civil Rights that they

1072
00:47:42,433 --> 00:47:44,800
had never held before,

1073
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:48,133
and they exercised
those rights vigorously;

1074
00:47:48,133 --> 00:47:51,300
electing a wave
of black politicians

1075
00:47:51,300 --> 00:47:54,933
and passing a series
of laws crafted to create

1076
00:47:54,933 --> 00:47:59,433
a more equitable society,
but a backlash was coming,

1077
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,000
as White southerners
refused to relinquish

1078
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,300
the power they
had held for so long.

1079
00:48:06,833 --> 00:48:10,633
Testimony given by a
reverend in Dean's town

1080
00:48:10,633 --> 00:48:14,433
gives a sense
of what happened next.

1081
00:48:15,566 --> 00:48:17,533
HOSTIN: "It was
in July 1868.

1082
00:48:17,533 --> 00:48:20,633
The Ku Klux Klan had visited
our little town of Thompson and

1083
00:48:20,633 --> 00:48:22,966
had beaten a friend
of mine pretty severely.

1084
00:48:22,966 --> 00:48:24,866
That night they
visited my house.

1085
00:48:24,866 --> 00:48:28,366
They were very well armed,
had pistols, shotguns.

1086
00:48:28,366 --> 00:48:29,833
That was on a
Saturday night.

1087
00:48:29,833 --> 00:48:31,966
On Sunday, I received a
letter not to stay in the

1088
00:48:31,966 --> 00:48:34,333
house because they were
gonna visit me again.

1089
00:48:34,333 --> 00:48:36,900
A week after I left, they
went on and beat another

1090
00:48:36,900 --> 00:48:39,533
colored man
pretty severely."

1091
00:48:39,533 --> 00:48:41,500
Yeah, it was dangerous to vote.

1092
00:48:41,500 --> 00:48:43,000
GATES: What's it like to
know this was happening in

1093
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,200
the town where
your ancestor lived?

1094
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:47,800
HOSTIN: It, it shows
you the courage it,

1095
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:49,433
that was required
for him to do that.

1096
00:48:49,433 --> 00:48:50,966
GATES: Mm-hmm.

1097
00:48:50,966 --> 00:48:54,266
HOSTIN: And it, it just, it just
shows you how strong he was.

1098
00:48:55,500 --> 00:48:57,833
GATES: By the end of 1871,

1099
00:48:57,833 --> 00:49:00,966
the year this
testimony was given,

1100
00:49:00,966 --> 00:49:04,900
Georgia's White democrats
had taken back control

1101
00:49:04,900 --> 00:49:07,200
of their state government,

1102
00:49:07,566 --> 00:49:11,200
aided by the nascent
Ku Klux Klan and

1103
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:16,166
a terror campaign designed
to suppress the Black vote.

1104
00:49:16,566 --> 00:49:21,166
But, as it turns out,
Sunny's ancestor was not

1105
00:49:21,166 --> 00:49:23,600
about to be deterred.

1106
00:49:25,966 --> 00:49:28,000
Sunny, you're looking
at voter registering roles from

1107
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,500
the years 1886 to 1894.

1108
00:49:30,500 --> 00:49:31,700
What do you see?

1109
00:49:31,700 --> 00:49:34,166
HOSTIN: Uh-oh,
he didn't stop.

1110
00:49:34,633 --> 00:49:35,933
Wow.

1111
00:49:35,933 --> 00:49:39,500
Republican, 1886,
Cummings, Dean.

1112
00:49:39,866 --> 00:49:41,700
1887, Cummings, Dean.

1113
00:49:41,700 --> 00:49:44,000
1888, Cummings, Dean.

1114
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,300
1889, Cummings, Dean.

1115
00:49:46,300 --> 00:49:48,900
He's like me, I never
miss a, um, a chance to vote.

1116
00:49:48,900 --> 00:49:50,800
1890, Cummings, Dean.

1117
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:52,333
1891, Cummings, Dean.

1118
00:49:52,333 --> 00:49:53,833
1892, Cummings, Dean.

1119
00:49:53,833 --> 00:49:55,266
1893, Cummings, Dean.

1120
00:49:55,266 --> 00:49:56,500
1894, Cummings, Dean.

1121
00:49:56,500 --> 00:49:58,800
I mean, he
couldn't be stopped.

1122
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,000
GATES: Your ancestor
registered to vote nine times

1123
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:04,433
between 1886 and 1894 despite...

1124
00:50:04,433 --> 00:50:07,200
HOSTIN: Oh, gosh, wow.
GATES: Terrorism.

1125
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:08,733
HOSTIN: The intimidation
and the domestic terrorism.

1126
00:50:08,733 --> 00:50:11,066
GATES: You got it.
Dean was not intimidated.

1127
00:50:11,066 --> 00:50:12,233
HOSTIN: No.

1128
00:50:12,233 --> 00:50:14,300
GATES: He consistently
exercised his right to vote.

1129
00:50:15,366 --> 00:50:18,066
HOSTIN: Wow.

1130
00:50:18,066 --> 00:50:21,666
That's awesome.
I love that.

1131
00:50:23,333 --> 00:50:24,933
GATES: The paper trail
had now run out for

1132
00:50:24,933 --> 00:50:26,666
each of my guests.

1133
00:50:26,666 --> 00:50:27,833
These are all of
your ancestors.

1134
00:50:27,833 --> 00:50:29,100
HOSTIN: Oh, my goodness.

1135
00:50:29,100 --> 00:50:31,333
GATES: It was time to show
them their full family trees.

1136
00:50:31,333 --> 00:50:32,666
WILLIAMS: Oh, wow.

1137
00:50:32,666 --> 00:50:34,766
GATES: Now filled with
ancestors whose names

1138
00:50:34,766 --> 00:50:37,233
they'd never heard before.

1139
00:50:37,500 --> 00:50:39,433
For each, it was
a moment of wonder.

1140
00:50:39,433 --> 00:50:41,266
HOSTIN: You found everyone!

1141
00:50:41,266 --> 00:50:44,800
WILLIAMS: This is a massive
gift to our whole family.

1142
00:50:45,233 --> 00:50:49,266
GATES: Providing a chance to
reflect on the sacrifices made

1143
00:50:49,266 --> 00:50:53,933
by women and men on both
sides of the color line,

1144
00:50:53,933 --> 00:50:57,333
who laid the groundwork
for their success.

1145
00:50:58,466 --> 00:51:02,066
WILLIAMS: I feel more full.
GATES: Mm-hmm.

1146
00:51:02,366 --> 00:51:04,966
WILLIAMS: Um, I feel
more full in a, in a,

1147
00:51:04,966 --> 00:51:09,333
in a space that was
otherwise, um, blank and

1148
00:51:09,333 --> 00:51:10,866
didn't really have a utility,

1149
00:51:10,866 --> 00:51:12,800
but this does if
that makes sense.

1150
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:14,033
GATES: Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

1151
00:51:14,033 --> 00:51:15,566
WILLIAMS: Like a, I feel
like this is something

1152
00:51:15,566 --> 00:51:17,033
I can do something with.

1153
00:51:17,033 --> 00:51:18,133
GATES: Mm-hmm.

1154
00:51:18,133 --> 00:51:19,766
WILLIAMS: Um, and,
and all of that.

1155
00:51:19,766 --> 00:51:21,166
Uh, it just
completes a picture.

1156
00:51:21,166 --> 00:51:22,966
GATES: Mm-hmm.
WILLIAMS: Yeah.

1157
00:51:22,966 --> 00:51:24,433
I'm, I'm really grateful.

1158
00:51:24,433 --> 00:51:25,733
Thank you.

1159
00:51:25,733 --> 00:51:27,866
GATES: What do you think you
inherited from your ancestors?

1160
00:51:27,866 --> 00:51:31,966
HOSTIN: Well, certainly
the determination to be involved

1161
00:51:31,966 --> 00:51:34,500
with societal politics.

1162
00:51:34,833 --> 00:51:36,333
GATES: Yeah.
HOSTIN: For sure.

1163
00:51:36,333 --> 00:51:37,533
GATES: Yeah.

1164
00:51:37,533 --> 00:51:39,800
HOSTIN: I'm such a fighter
when it comes to that.

1165
00:51:40,033 --> 00:51:42,266
I actually never understood
why it's so important to me.

1166
00:51:42,266 --> 00:51:43,333
GATES: Mm-hmm.

1167
00:51:43,333 --> 00:51:45,500
HOSTIN: Maybe, you know,
they say in Puerto Rico,

1168
00:51:45,500 --> 00:51:48,000
el sangre llama.

1169
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:49,266
You know, the
blood calls you.

1170
00:51:49,266 --> 00:51:50,633
GATES: Blood, yeah.

1171
00:51:50,633 --> 00:51:52,233
HOSTIN: And maybe
that's part of it.

1172
00:51:52,233 --> 00:51:54,133
GATES: Could be.

1173
00:51:55,066 --> 00:51:58,333
That's the end of our
journey with Sunny Hostin

1174
00:51:58,333 --> 00:52:00,266
and Jesse Williams.

1175
00:52:00,266 --> 00:52:04,566
Join me next time when we
unlock the secrets of the past

1176
00:52:04,566 --> 00:52:07,633
for new guests
on another episode of

1177
00:52:07,633 --> 00:52:08,900
"Finding Your Roots."