1 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:06,466 GATES: I'm Henry Louis Gates, Jr. 2 00:00:06,466 --> 00:00:09,100 Welcome to "Finding Your Roots". 3 00:00:09,833 --> 00:00:14,533 In this episode, we'll meet Michael Douglas and Lena Dunham, 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,066 two children of celebrated artists whose ancestors 5 00:00:19,066 --> 00:00:22,466 came to fame in highly unusual ways. 6 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,100 DOUGLAS: "Anyone who knows the whereabouts of Danielovich 7 00:00:26,100 --> 00:00:28,266 is obliged to inform the court..." 8 00:00:28,266 --> 00:00:30,866 GATES: Your great uncle, Michael, was a wanted man. 9 00:00:30,866 --> 00:00:32,133 DOUGLAS: This is wild. 10 00:00:32,133 --> 00:00:35,233 This is, this is, do we know what he was wanted for? 11 00:00:35,866 --> 00:00:38,233 DUNHAM: My eighth great-grandfather was the mayor? 12 00:00:38,233 --> 00:00:41,133 GATES: You descend from the Mayor of New York! 13 00:00:41,133 --> 00:00:45,666 DUNHAM: That is not something that I ever would've guessed at. 14 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:47,733 GATES: To uncover their roots, 15 00:00:47,733 --> 00:00:50,333 we've used every tool available... 16 00:00:51,033 --> 00:00:53,166 Genealogists combed through paper trails 17 00:00:53,166 --> 00:00:55,366 stretching back hundreds of years. 18 00:00:55,366 --> 00:00:57,466 DOUGLAS: Whoa! Whoa! 19 00:00:58,033 --> 00:01:01,366 GATES: While DNA experts utilized the latest advances 20 00:01:01,366 --> 00:01:03,200 in genetic analysis 21 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,600 to reveal secrets that have lain hidden for generations. 22 00:01:07,166 --> 00:01:09,566 DUNHAM: This is the hottest information 23 00:01:09,566 --> 00:01:11,433 I could have ever gotten! 24 00:01:11,433 --> 00:01:14,866 GATES: And we've compiled it all into a book of life, 25 00:01:16,166 --> 00:01:18,333 a record of all of our discoveries... 26 00:01:18,333 --> 00:01:19,800 DOUGLAS: That's incredible. 27 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,766 GATES: And a window into the hidden past... 28 00:01:22,766 --> 00:01:25,300 DUNHAM: Do a lot of people cry when this happens? 29 00:01:25,300 --> 00:01:26,366 GATES: Every once in a while. 30 00:01:26,366 --> 00:01:28,500 DUNHAM: Okay. It's beautiful. 31 00:01:28,500 --> 00:01:31,233 DOUGLAS: I feel, more of a spiritual, 32 00:01:31,233 --> 00:01:35,500 religious connection, uh, to Judaism, than, 33 00:01:35,500 --> 00:01:37,800 than I ever had before. 34 00:01:38,100 --> 00:01:40,466 DUNHAM: Noooo! 35 00:01:40,466 --> 00:01:42,100 You saved the best for last!! 36 00:01:43,133 --> 00:01:46,566 GATES: My two guests descend from extraordinary artists, 37 00:01:46,566 --> 00:01:50,366 yet each of them chartered a unique path for themselves. 38 00:01:51,033 --> 00:01:54,733 In this episode, they're going to be introduced to ancestors 39 00:01:54,733 --> 00:01:57,000 who did the same thing, 40 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,266 meeting women and men who took chances that their 41 00:02:00,266 --> 00:02:03,233 parents never could have imagined. 42 00:02:09,266 --> 00:02:23,000 (theme music plays). 43 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,166 ♪ ♪ 44 00:02:26,166 --> 00:02:27,266 (book closes) 45 00:02:33,633 --> 00:02:51,333 ♪ ♪ 46 00:02:51,333 --> 00:02:54,966 GATES: Michael Douglas has been surrounded by cameras 47 00:02:54,966 --> 00:02:56,966 his entire life. 48 00:02:57,300 --> 00:03:00,066 The Oscar-winning star of "Wall Street" 49 00:03:00,066 --> 00:03:02,033 and "Fatal Attraction" 50 00:03:02,033 --> 00:03:04,966 is himself the child of two stars: 51 00:03:05,700 --> 00:03:09,966 Broadway's Dianna Dill and Hollywood legend Kirk Douglas. 52 00:03:11,266 --> 00:03:16,400 But Michael didn't set out to join the family profession. 53 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,600 His childhood was dominated by tensions between his parents, 54 00:03:21,866 --> 00:03:25,066 and his father, a complicated man, 55 00:03:25,066 --> 00:03:28,533 was not someone whom he initially sought to emulate. 56 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,200 DOUGLAS: They were, you know, the yin and the yang. 57 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:33,400 GATES: Mmm-hmm. 58 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:35,533 DOUGLAS: Truthfully, their early marriage, 59 00:03:35,533 --> 00:03:37,400 they were not married that long, they were, 60 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:39,133 they were married I think six years, 61 00:03:39,133 --> 00:03:42,133 six or seven years, was, was difficult. 62 00:03:42,133 --> 00:03:45,033 Um, very soon after they were married my father got 63 00:03:45,033 --> 00:03:49,933 a contract to go out to, to Hollywood and needless to say, 64 00:03:50,300 --> 00:03:53,500 like a lot of people in our business, career was, 65 00:03:53,500 --> 00:03:54,733 took over everything. 66 00:03:54,733 --> 00:03:57,900 Ahead of marriage or children and all of that. 67 00:03:57,900 --> 00:04:03,300 And so they, they, they fought a, a lot and, and I think, uh, 68 00:04:03,300 --> 00:04:07,866 my father was a little overwhelmed by Hollywood. 69 00:04:07,866 --> 00:04:08,866 GATES: Mm-hmm. 70 00:04:08,866 --> 00:04:10,033 DOUGLAS: Let's just leave it at that. 71 00:04:10,033 --> 00:04:11,466 (laughter) 72 00:04:11,466 --> 00:04:12,500 GATES: I understand. 73 00:04:12,500 --> 00:04:13,633 DOUGLAS: Right. Exactly. 74 00:04:14,700 --> 00:04:17,666 GATES: Michael's father ultimately found success that 75 00:04:17,666 --> 00:04:21,166 few actors can even dream of: 76 00:04:21,766 --> 00:04:25,133 Kirk appeared in more than 75 films, 77 00:04:25,133 --> 00:04:28,300 many of them still beloved today, 78 00:04:28,300 --> 00:04:32,000 but Michael did not try to follow in his father's footsteps 79 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:36,533 until he himself moved to California to go to college 80 00:04:36,533 --> 00:04:38,600 in Santa Barbara. 81 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,033 And even then, it was only as a last resort. 82 00:04:43,633 --> 00:04:45,133 DOUGLAS: I didn't know what else to do. 83 00:04:45,133 --> 00:04:46,566 GATES: Right, mmm-hmm. 84 00:04:46,566 --> 00:04:49,966 DOUGLAS: And then I must say, God bless my father who then, 85 00:04:49,966 --> 00:04:52,166 as busy as he had been, 86 00:04:52,166 --> 00:04:55,400 made like almost every single production that I was in 87 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:56,966 up there at, at school. 88 00:04:56,966 --> 00:05:00,200 And I remember he came up for the, the first productions 89 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,533 I ever had was a messenger in 90 00:05:02,533 --> 00:05:03,766 "Much Ado About Nothing". 91 00:05:03,766 --> 00:05:05,033 GATES: Yeah. 92 00:05:05,033 --> 00:05:08,033 DOUGLAS: And, um, and unfortunately, I had an 93 00:05:08,033 --> 00:05:12,033 entrance to the theater down the aisle and they taught me 94 00:05:12,033 --> 00:05:13,433 how to stand and all that. 95 00:05:13,433 --> 00:05:16,633 And I ended up standing right by my father's, um, aisle. 96 00:05:16,633 --> 00:05:18,466 And I had like a messenger speech, 97 00:05:18,466 --> 00:05:20,566 they taught me how to, to stand it up, 98 00:05:20,566 --> 00:05:22,500 "My Lord... 99 00:05:22,500 --> 00:05:25,566 (gibberish with British accent) 100 00:05:25,566 --> 00:05:27,400 Then bowed and went out. 101 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,333 And the whole audience said, "What did he say?" 102 00:05:29,333 --> 00:05:31,200 "What did he say?" 103 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,466 And, uh, they had, they had, you know, afterwards, 104 00:05:34,466 --> 00:05:37,000 Michael, you were terrible. 105 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,300 You were just terrible. 106 00:05:39,300 --> 00:05:42,166 And he, in, in hindsight, he was so relieved, he said, 107 00:05:42,166 --> 00:05:43,900 "Oh God, I don't have to worry about my son thinking about 108 00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:45,966 being an actor," you know? 109 00:05:46,500 --> 00:05:49,133 GATES: Of course, Kirk actually had a good deal 110 00:05:49,133 --> 00:05:51,400 to worry about. 111 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,500 Michael would eventually master his craft, 112 00:05:54,500 --> 00:05:57,000 and become a leading man in Hollywood, 113 00:05:57,866 --> 00:06:01,166 taking roles that Kirk might once have 114 00:06:01,166 --> 00:06:03,166 claimed for himself. 115 00:06:04,133 --> 00:06:05,666 But even so: 116 00:06:05,666 --> 00:06:08,833 Michael told me that he struggled for years, 117 00:06:08,833 --> 00:06:11,700 both personally and professionally, 118 00:06:11,700 --> 00:06:14,666 to separate himself from his famous father, 119 00:06:15,633 --> 00:06:18,100 and that the breakthrough would only come 120 00:06:18,100 --> 00:06:20,600 when was he in his 40s, 121 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:24,000 and he won his Academy Award for "Wall Street". 122 00:06:24,833 --> 00:06:26,333 DOUGLAS: On a personal level, 123 00:06:26,333 --> 00:06:28,200 it was crucial for me because it, 124 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,000 it was the first time that I felt I was 125 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:31,133 out of the shadow... 126 00:06:31,133 --> 00:06:32,200 GATES: Mm-hmm. 127 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:33,300 DOUGLAS: Of my father. 128 00:06:33,300 --> 00:06:35,200 That I didn't feel like I was Kirk Douglas's son. 129 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:36,433 GATES: Mm-hmm. 130 00:06:36,433 --> 00:06:38,466 DOUGLAS: Uh, and I'd done a fair amount of stuff, uh, 131 00:06:38,466 --> 00:06:41,966 before "Wall Street," but getting that Oscar for me, 132 00:06:41,966 --> 00:06:46,733 getting the acknowledgment from my peers, you know, the, 133 00:06:46,733 --> 00:06:48,800 in the Oscars, it's only the, 134 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,833 the acting members who first give the nominations. 135 00:06:51,833 --> 00:06:53,000 GATES: Mm-hmm. 136 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:54,466 DOUGLAS: This is why I was so touched is, 137 00:06:54,466 --> 00:06:55,966 this means that my fellow actors... 138 00:06:55,966 --> 00:06:57,000 GATES: Right. 139 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:58,566 DOUGLAS: Are saying that I'm worthy. 140 00:06:58,566 --> 00:06:59,833 GATES: Mm-hmm. 141 00:06:59,833 --> 00:07:02,133 DOUGLAS: And so, for me personally, it was a, 142 00:07:02,133 --> 00:07:06,200 a tremendous need that I had to get out of the 143 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:07,800 shadow of my dad. 144 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,033 GATES: My second guest is writer-director-and-actor 145 00:07:13,033 --> 00:07:14,600 Lena Dunham... 146 00:07:15,066 --> 00:07:19,266 creator of "Girls" the iconic HBO series. 147 00:07:20,266 --> 00:07:24,566 Just like Michael Douglas, Lena is the child of artists. 148 00:07:25,433 --> 00:07:27,733 Her mother is a renowned photographer. 149 00:07:27,733 --> 00:07:32,633 Her father, a celebrated painter and sculptor... 150 00:07:32,633 --> 00:07:34,133 But Lena's childhood was 151 00:07:34,133 --> 00:07:36,700 fundamentally different from Michael's. 152 00:07:37,233 --> 00:07:41,433 She grew up in very a stable home in the SoHo neighborhood 153 00:07:41,433 --> 00:07:45,833 of New York City, where she was surrounded by her parents' art 154 00:07:45,833 --> 00:07:49,200 and encouraged to pursue her own creative dreams. 155 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,466 DUNHAM: I was constantly getting to use their tools. 156 00:07:53,466 --> 00:07:55,933 So if I wanted to borrow a camera that was in my mother's 157 00:07:55,933 --> 00:07:59,000 studio or play with my father's paint brushes or work 158 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,566 with the clay that he was using to make the sculpture. 159 00:08:01,566 --> 00:08:03,933 It was fun because as kids we had access to these, 160 00:08:03,933 --> 00:08:05,700 what felt like these really adult tools. 161 00:08:05,700 --> 00:08:06,933 GATES: Big time. DUNHAM: Yeah. 162 00:08:06,933 --> 00:08:08,266 GATES: Yeah. That was... DUNHAM: And so it was nice. 163 00:08:08,266 --> 00:08:10,300 You weren't just like using your paint-by-numbers set. 164 00:08:10,300 --> 00:08:12,366 GATES: Did you ever want to be a doctor or a lawyer or 165 00:08:12,366 --> 00:08:13,400 was it always... 166 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,166 DUNHAM: It was always a writer. 167 00:08:15,166 --> 00:08:16,500 Something... 168 00:08:16,500 --> 00:08:19,900 I always felt really connected to the fact that my parents 169 00:08:19,900 --> 00:08:23,500 got you this amazing thing of going into a room and, and 170 00:08:23,500 --> 00:08:24,800 being creative for the day. 171 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,000 And I, I think I was always, my parents always were conscious 172 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:28,866 and made me conscious of what a gift that is. 173 00:08:28,866 --> 00:08:30,100 GATES: Mm-hmm. 174 00:08:30,100 --> 00:08:31,566 DUNHAM: What a privilege it is to be able to do that 175 00:08:31,566 --> 00:08:33,366 for your life. 176 00:08:33,666 --> 00:08:36,966 GATES: Lena not only appreciated the world of her childhood, 177 00:08:36,966 --> 00:08:39,333 she used it to launch her career. 178 00:08:40,366 --> 00:08:44,800 After college, she decided she wanted to become a film-maker 179 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,233 and ended up shooting a low-budget feature 180 00:08:48,233 --> 00:08:50,600 in her family's apartment, 181 00:08:51,166 --> 00:08:54,466 guided by a pragmatism she'd gleaned from 182 00:08:54,466 --> 00:08:56,466 watching her parents work. 183 00:08:57,300 --> 00:08:59,233 DUNHAM: The thing about my parents is that they've always 184 00:08:59,233 --> 00:09:02,766 really treated being artists like a business. 185 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:04,166 GATES: Mm-hmm. 186 00:09:04,166 --> 00:09:05,400 DUNHAM: And I think that's the thing that made it 187 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:06,633 make sense to me is, 188 00:09:06,633 --> 00:09:08,400 you know, they treat it like a 9:00 to 5:00 job, 189 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,200 they go into the studio, they do it, they think about, 190 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,033 you know, what they have the resources to make, 191 00:09:13,033 --> 00:09:14,866 what they don't have the resources to make. 192 00:09:14,866 --> 00:09:16,566 And in life, I'm just not... 193 00:09:16,566 --> 00:09:19,366 I don't like to like entertain things I can't have. 194 00:09:19,366 --> 00:09:20,766 I'm not a window shopper. 195 00:09:20,766 --> 00:09:22,933 I don't like to tour houses that I couldn't afford. 196 00:09:22,933 --> 00:09:24,166 GATES: Mm-hmm. 197 00:09:24,166 --> 00:09:25,700 DUNHAM: I don't get crushes on people who don't have 198 00:09:25,700 --> 00:09:26,733 a crush on me. 199 00:09:26,733 --> 00:09:27,900 GATES: Mm-hmm. 200 00:09:27,900 --> 00:09:29,100 DUNHAM: It's just not my thing. 201 00:09:29,100 --> 00:09:32,200 And so I was really thinking I'm not gonna try to, 202 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,366 you know, create a film that would be shot on the moon. 203 00:09:35,366 --> 00:09:38,633 I really wanna do something that I can actually make. 204 00:09:38,900 --> 00:09:41,100 And, and that's still the way that I think. 205 00:09:41,100 --> 00:09:44,366 I think I mean, my resources have grown, but to this day, 206 00:09:44,366 --> 00:09:46,133 I think, "Okay, where am I? 207 00:09:46,133 --> 00:09:48,233 What's practical to actually create?" 208 00:09:48,233 --> 00:09:49,733 And then I write to that. 209 00:09:51,066 --> 00:09:54,366 GATES: Lena's first film was a hit on the festival circuit, 210 00:09:56,266 --> 00:10:00,066 butGirlstook her to the next level... 211 00:10:00,300 --> 00:10:04,700 creating an array of memorable characters, and exploring 212 00:10:04,700 --> 00:10:08,800 emotions that are rarely even acknowledged on-screen... 213 00:10:10,100 --> 00:10:13,533 It's no wonder the series became a classic, 214 00:10:13,533 --> 00:10:17,300 or that it made Lena a celebrity, 215 00:10:17,300 --> 00:10:20,566 the subject of both praise and controversy... 216 00:10:22,233 --> 00:10:24,366 Fortunately, through it all, 217 00:10:24,366 --> 00:10:27,466 Lena preserved both her creative vision, 218 00:10:27,466 --> 00:10:30,266 and her mental health. 219 00:10:30,866 --> 00:10:33,566 A feat that she credits to her parents. 220 00:10:34,500 --> 00:10:36,900 DUNHAM: I really often tell people that the difference 221 00:10:36,900 --> 00:10:39,800 between people who get swept up in this business 222 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:41,766 in a negative way and never come back and 223 00:10:41,766 --> 00:10:42,833 the people who... 224 00:10:42,833 --> 00:10:44,200 GATES: Hmm. 225 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,600 DUNHAM: Get to hold a shred of reality is whether you have a 226 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,733 family that supports you and believes you and sees you and 227 00:10:49,733 --> 00:10:51,300 doesn't try to benefit from your success... 228 00:10:51,300 --> 00:10:52,433 GATES: Mm-hmm. 229 00:10:52,433 --> 00:10:53,766 DUNHAM: In ways that are destructive. 230 00:10:53,766 --> 00:10:55,233 And I am so blessed. 231 00:10:55,233 --> 00:10:56,433 GATES: Mmm-hmm. 232 00:10:56,433 --> 00:10:58,033 DUNHAM: I mean, It's not like I wouldn't be 233 00:10:58,033 --> 00:10:59,100 standing here with you. 234 00:10:59,100 --> 00:11:01,100 I wouldn't be alive if I didn't have that, 235 00:11:01,100 --> 00:11:03,166 that safety and that love. 236 00:11:03,166 --> 00:11:05,433 GATES: You know, whatever stork that dropped you in 237 00:11:05,433 --> 00:11:07,066 that, uh, apartment in SoHo... 238 00:11:07,066 --> 00:11:08,766 Yeah, that's a good dude. 239 00:11:08,766 --> 00:11:10,933 DUNHAM: I feel he's a good dude and I feel like 240 00:11:10,933 --> 00:11:12,600 he got it really right. 241 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:18,033 GATES: Meeting my guests, it was clear that both had 242 00:11:18,033 --> 00:11:20,733 inherited creative talent from their parents. 243 00:11:22,100 --> 00:11:25,633 Now it was time to see what had been passed down to them 244 00:11:25,633 --> 00:11:28,033 from their more distant ancestors. 245 00:11:29,466 --> 00:11:33,666 I started with Michael Douglas, and with his father Kirk, 246 00:11:33,666 --> 00:11:37,800 whose accomplishments are all the more remarkable 247 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:39,766 given how he began. 248 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:46,033 Kirk was born "Isadore Demsky" in Amsterdam, New York, 249 00:11:47,166 --> 00:11:49,800 the only son of Harry Demsky, 250 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:53,333 a Jewish immigrant who sold rags from a cart, 251 00:11:53,333 --> 00:11:57,466 when Kirk was a boy and was by all accounts, 252 00:11:57,466 --> 00:12:00,433 cold and difficult at home. 253 00:12:01,266 --> 00:12:06,333 Indeed, many of Kirk's own struggles seem to have flowed 254 00:12:06,333 --> 00:12:09,900 out of his relationship with his troubled father. 255 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:15,600 DOUGLAS: My grandfather was just a very closed-off individual. 256 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:16,666 GATES: Hmm. 257 00:12:16,666 --> 00:12:18,000 DOUGLAS: A lot of us, that has to do with, 258 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:19,666 I don't think he spoke. Uh, he didn't write. 259 00:12:19,666 --> 00:12:20,800 GATES: Right. 260 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:22,033 DOUGLAS: Um... GATES: Spoke Yiddish. 261 00:12:22,033 --> 00:12:23,966 DOUGLAS: Spoke Yiddish, exactly, all the time. 262 00:12:23,966 --> 00:12:25,266 GATES: Mm-hmm. 263 00:12:25,266 --> 00:12:27,700 DOUGLAS: And so it was like a, it was a closed world, um, 264 00:12:27,700 --> 00:12:32,466 that never, even after dad had achieved some success and, he, 265 00:12:32,466 --> 00:12:36,566 as an immigrant, had not achieved the success that his, 266 00:12:36,566 --> 00:12:40,833 his son had, so I think he probably was, even the more, 267 00:12:40,833 --> 00:12:43,533 how much dad wanted the love and affection was probably 268 00:12:43,533 --> 00:12:45,566 what even shut him off even more from, from dad. 269 00:12:45,566 --> 00:12:46,666 GATES: Right. 270 00:12:46,666 --> 00:12:48,266 Yeah, he couldn't allow himself to enjoy it. 271 00:12:48,266 --> 00:12:49,500 DOUGLAS: Yeah. 272 00:12:49,500 --> 00:12:50,766 GATES: Right, because it made him feel like he had let 273 00:12:50,766 --> 00:12:51,766 the slide down. 274 00:12:51,766 --> 00:12:53,666 DOUGLAS: Yeah, that he'd, he'd done nothing. 275 00:12:54,166 --> 00:12:56,633 GATES: Harry Demsky would prove to be as challenging to 276 00:12:56,633 --> 00:12:59,600 our researchers as he was to his son. 277 00:13:00,833 --> 00:13:04,433 Michael had heard that Harry came to America to avoid 278 00:13:04,433 --> 00:13:09,033 serving in the Russian Army, and that the family's original 279 00:13:09,033 --> 00:13:14,200 surname was not Demsky, rather it was "Danielovich". 280 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:16,900 But beyond that, 281 00:13:16,900 --> 00:13:20,166 Michael knew nothing about his grandfather's roots. 282 00:13:20,566 --> 00:13:23,800 And for a time, neither did we. 283 00:13:24,300 --> 00:13:28,100 There were no records of Harry at Ellis Island. 284 00:13:28,700 --> 00:13:31,833 So we couldn't determine when he came to America, 285 00:13:31,833 --> 00:13:34,366 or where he came from. 286 00:13:34,633 --> 00:13:36,233 What's more, 287 00:13:36,233 --> 00:13:37,833 Harry had two brothers who 288 00:13:37,833 --> 00:13:40,033 immigrated to the United States, 289 00:13:40,500 --> 00:13:42,966 Mosha and Abram... 290 00:13:42,966 --> 00:13:45,933 And we couldn't find an arrival record for Mosha. 291 00:13:46,833 --> 00:13:51,566 Happily, our luck changed with Abram, and the passenger list 292 00:13:52,233 --> 00:13:57,300 for a ship that arrived in New York in April of 1911. 293 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:01,333 Please read who was on board. 294 00:14:01,566 --> 00:14:06,066 DOUGLAS: "Danielovich. Abram, age 42. 295 00:14:06,366 --> 00:14:10,266 Occupation: Dealer. Nationality: Russia. 296 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,000 Race or people: Hebrew." 297 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:14,233 GATES: Mm-hmm. 298 00:14:14,233 --> 00:14:18,066 DOUGLAS: "Last permanent residence: Chausy, Russia." 299 00:14:18,300 --> 00:14:19,466 GATES: Chausy, Russia. 300 00:14:19,466 --> 00:14:22,033 You know who that is? That's your father's uncle. 301 00:14:22,033 --> 00:14:23,566 DOUGLAS: Oh, whoa. 302 00:14:23,566 --> 00:14:26,166 GATES: That is the arrival of your great uncle Abram, 303 00:14:26,166 --> 00:14:28,766 recorded with the surname Danielovich, 304 00:14:28,766 --> 00:14:31,033 arriving in New York. 305 00:14:31,033 --> 00:14:33,566 Chausy is your ancestral hometown. 306 00:14:33,566 --> 00:14:35,066 DOUGLAS: Whoa. 307 00:14:35,066 --> 00:14:37,933 GATES: It was then part of the Russian empire. 308 00:14:37,933 --> 00:14:40,800 Did you know, have you ever heard of this place, Chausy? 309 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:42,200 DOUGLAS: Never heard of it. 310 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,633 Chausy. Wow. 311 00:14:46,333 --> 00:14:51,166 GATES: Today, Chausy is a small town in eastern Belarus. 312 00:14:52,500 --> 00:14:55,400 But when Michael's relatives lived here, 313 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,100 it was part of the notorious "pale of settlement", 314 00:14:59,533 --> 00:15:03,233 the vast region where Russia confined and 315 00:15:03,233 --> 00:15:06,633 severely restricted its Jewish population. 316 00:15:08,033 --> 00:15:11,900 Jews in the pale were second-class citizens, 317 00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:14,233 subject to continuous, 318 00:15:14,233 --> 00:15:17,066 sometimes violent, discrimination. 319 00:15:17,833 --> 00:15:21,333 And though it is often difficult to learn about their lives, 320 00:15:21,333 --> 00:15:24,500 with Michael's ancestors, we were fortunate: 321 00:15:25,633 --> 00:15:29,400 we found photographs of the neighborhood in Chausy where 322 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,900 we believe his family lived. 323 00:15:32,966 --> 00:15:36,633 In essence, it was the town's Jewish quarter... 324 00:15:37,533 --> 00:15:40,133 90% of the residents there were Jewish. 325 00:15:40,466 --> 00:15:41,733 DOUGLAS: Okay. 326 00:15:41,733 --> 00:15:43,000 GATES: It's the ghetto, right? 327 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:44,466 DOUGLAS: It's the ghetto. 328 00:15:44,466 --> 00:15:46,433 GATES: What's it like to learn this? 329 00:15:46,933 --> 00:15:48,333 DOUGLAS: Well, I, it just gives you a better 330 00:15:48,333 --> 00:15:51,800 understanding of, of how it all, how it all worked. 331 00:15:52,133 --> 00:15:54,733 You know, even, even then, how it all worked. 332 00:15:54,733 --> 00:15:58,233 I mean, I, I'm sure that all the Jews liked to be together, 333 00:15:58,233 --> 00:16:01,166 but not together that much. 334 00:16:02,133 --> 00:16:05,666 GATES: By law, Jewish people in the pale were barred from 335 00:16:05,666 --> 00:16:09,466 owning land and denied access to higher education. 336 00:16:11,466 --> 00:16:15,233 As a result, most worked as tradespeople. 337 00:16:16,033 --> 00:16:18,866 But as we researched Michael's family, 338 00:16:18,866 --> 00:16:22,466 we discovered that his great uncle Mosha found 339 00:16:22,466 --> 00:16:25,433 a more unusual way to support himself... 340 00:16:26,700 --> 00:16:28,033 Crime. 341 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,466 DOUGLAS: Under the decree of the Mogilev District Court is 342 00:16:32,466 --> 00:16:37,633 wanted a Chausy town person Mosha Danielovich... 343 00:16:38,100 --> 00:16:39,366 GATES: Uh-huh. 344 00:16:39,366 --> 00:16:42,866 DOUGLAS: Accused under Article 1654. 345 00:16:42,866 --> 00:16:45,466 Anyone who knows the whereabouts of Danielovich 346 00:16:45,466 --> 00:16:48,333 is obliged to inform the court where he is." 347 00:16:48,933 --> 00:16:52,166 GATES: Your great uncle, Michael, was a wanted man. 348 00:16:52,166 --> 00:16:53,566 DOUGLAS: This is wild. 349 00:16:53,566 --> 00:16:56,266 This is, this is, do we know what he was wanted for? 350 00:16:56,266 --> 00:16:57,300 GATES: We do. 351 00:16:57,300 --> 00:16:59,000 But have you ever heard this story? 352 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,500 DOUGLAS: No, no. I've never heard... 353 00:17:01,500 --> 00:17:03,466 GATES: Well, as I said, we didn't find any firm record of 354 00:17:03,466 --> 00:17:05,766 his arrival to the United States. 355 00:17:05,766 --> 00:17:09,333 So, it's possible he may have been in Russia as late as 1906, 356 00:17:09,333 --> 00:17:11,500 which is when that article was published. 357 00:17:11,500 --> 00:17:12,833 DOUGLAS: Right. 358 00:17:12,833 --> 00:17:14,966 GATES: It's also possible that he'd already left when this 359 00:17:14,966 --> 00:17:17,133 wanted notice was issued because he was... 360 00:17:17,133 --> 00:17:19,033 DOUGLAS: Sounds more likely. 361 00:17:20,533 --> 00:17:24,500 GATES: According to this newspaper, in 1906, 362 00:17:24,500 --> 00:17:28,666 Mosha was accused of what we would call "armed robbery." 363 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,900 We don't know anything further about the case, 364 00:17:33,900 --> 00:17:36,933 so it's possible that he was innocent... 365 00:17:37,833 --> 00:17:42,000 However, as we dug deeper, that possibility seemed 366 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,900 increasingly unlikely. 367 00:17:45,533 --> 00:17:49,300 Records show that five years earlier, in 1901, 368 00:17:49,300 --> 00:17:53,400 Mosha was imprisoned for a different crime. 369 00:17:54,033 --> 00:17:57,700 What's more, we discovered that Michael's grandfather 370 00:17:57,700 --> 00:18:01,900 Harry was born "Gersha Danielovich", 371 00:18:01,900 --> 00:18:05,266 and that he, too, had trouble with the law... 372 00:18:06,966 --> 00:18:10,833 DOUGLAS: "November 12th, 1903, Gersha Danielovich... 373 00:18:10,833 --> 00:18:12,366 GATES: Mmm-hmm. 374 00:18:12,366 --> 00:18:15,166 DOUGLAS: Alexander Ferpechka... 375 00:18:15,166 --> 00:18:16,400 GATES: Good! 376 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,766 DOUGLAS: And Nobleman Alexander Venkofvsky. 377 00:18:19,766 --> 00:18:24,100 Charged under articles 13 and 1642." 378 00:18:26,633 --> 00:18:29,133 Wow, you got yourself a little gang here. 379 00:18:29,133 --> 00:18:31,833 GATES: Your grandfather Harry's real name was 380 00:18:31,833 --> 00:18:34,600 Gersh Danielovich. 381 00:18:34,866 --> 00:18:37,533 He was charged with robbery, like his brother, 382 00:18:37,533 --> 00:18:38,866 but not with a weapon. 383 00:18:38,866 --> 00:18:40,900 DOUGLAS: Okay. GATES: This is your grandfa... 384 00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:42,700 No family stories about this? 385 00:18:42,700 --> 00:18:45,833 DOUGLAS: Incredible. No. Never. 386 00:18:45,833 --> 00:18:50,800 I guess this is kinda the part that they were not proud about 387 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:52,700 when they first came to this country. 388 00:18:52,700 --> 00:18:55,400 GATES: We left that behind. DOUGLAS: Yeah. Yeah. 389 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:57,266 GATES: What's it like to learn that? 390 00:18:57,266 --> 00:19:00,233 DOUGLAS: Well, it, it just all kind of comes to life, 391 00:19:00,233 --> 00:19:04,633 and they must have been struggling, um, 392 00:19:04,633 --> 00:19:06,566 to make ends meet. 393 00:19:06,566 --> 00:19:09,166 It looks like it was somewhat of a professional gang. 394 00:19:09,166 --> 00:19:11,500 I mean, it doesn't seem like a one-off. 395 00:19:11,500 --> 00:19:13,900 It seems like they made, 396 00:19:13,900 --> 00:19:16,500 they lived and survived by, by robbery. 397 00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:18,500 GATES: You know the records at Ellis Island are pretty good. 398 00:19:18,500 --> 00:19:19,733 DOUGLAS: Yeah. 399 00:19:19,733 --> 00:19:21,200 GATES: So, we, we were thinking, how come these guys 400 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:22,566 don't show up, neither of them? 401 00:19:22,566 --> 00:19:24,433 Probably aliases. 402 00:19:24,433 --> 00:19:26,166 DOUGLAS: I'm kind of reeling. 403 00:19:26,166 --> 00:19:27,333 Reeling with this information, 404 00:19:27,333 --> 00:19:28,833 but sure, it makes all the sense in the world. 405 00:19:28,833 --> 00:19:30,100 They were... 406 00:19:30,100 --> 00:19:31,900 GATES: And let's go back to the story your father told you, 407 00:19:31,900 --> 00:19:35,033 that his father came to America to escape the army. 408 00:19:35,033 --> 00:19:36,100 DOUGLAS: Right. 409 00:19:36,100 --> 00:19:38,166 GATES: He came to America to escape prison. 410 00:19:38,166 --> 00:19:39,633 DOUGLAS: Prison. Yeah. 411 00:19:39,633 --> 00:19:42,433 This is blowing my mind a little bit. 412 00:19:42,433 --> 00:19:44,266 This is really blowing my mind. 413 00:19:45,466 --> 00:19:48,400 GATES: Now that we'd figured out who Michael's grandfather 414 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,166 actually was, we were able to trace his roots... 415 00:19:53,433 --> 00:19:55,833 Starting in the archives of Belarus, 416 00:19:55,833 --> 00:19:59,600 where we uncovered the birth record for another 417 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,666 one of his brothers, a man named Ruvim Danielovich. 418 00:20:05,566 --> 00:20:08,900 This record lists Ruvim's grandparents, 419 00:20:08,900 --> 00:20:12,133 adding yet another generation to Michael's family tree... 420 00:20:13,700 --> 00:20:17,300 Both were likely born in the 1830s, almost 200 years ago. 421 00:20:18,900 --> 00:20:20,866 DOUGLAS: 200 years ago, 422 00:20:20,866 --> 00:20:23,400 and that would be my great-great-grandparents. 423 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:24,966 GATES: That's right, your second great-grandparents. 424 00:20:24,966 --> 00:20:26,166 DOUGLAS: Great-great-grandparents. 425 00:20:26,166 --> 00:20:29,066 GATES: Right. Tolstoy was born in 1828. 426 00:20:29,066 --> 00:20:30,866 They are contemporaries of Tolstoy. 427 00:20:30,866 --> 00:20:32,233 DOUGLAS: I can't get over this! 428 00:20:32,233 --> 00:20:34,266 GATES: What's it like to see that? 429 00:20:34,266 --> 00:20:36,000 DOUGLAS: Well, it makes me feel, 430 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,633 um, that I have some connection or continuity beyond 431 00:20:39,633 --> 00:20:41,833 just my grandfather or back there, 432 00:20:41,833 --> 00:20:43,200 because, for me, 433 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,633 it's always bothered me that I didn't really know 434 00:20:46,633 --> 00:20:48,966 anything from, just pretty much from when he, 435 00:20:48,966 --> 00:20:50,366 when he got here to this country. 436 00:20:50,366 --> 00:20:51,600 GATES: Mm-hmm. 437 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,233 DOUGLAS: And so you can, to see this, and you got to, 438 00:20:53,233 --> 00:20:54,433 I didn't even know he had two brothers. 439 00:20:54,433 --> 00:20:55,700 GATES: Mm-hmm. 440 00:20:55,700 --> 00:20:58,933 DOUGLAS: So, to see that, and, and to understand their 441 00:20:58,933 --> 00:21:03,066 background, just totally brings it to, brings it to, to life. 442 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,333 GATES: We had a final detail to share regarding 443 00:21:09,333 --> 00:21:11,600 Michael's roots in Belarus. 444 00:21:12,300 --> 00:21:16,433 Our researchers were able to find the cemetery where we 445 00:21:16,433 --> 00:21:20,500 believe his Danilovich ancestors are buried... 446 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,733 It likely dates back to the early 1700s... 447 00:21:25,733 --> 00:21:30,800 and has survived over three centuries of war, unrest, 448 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,933 and upheaval... 449 00:21:35,533 --> 00:21:39,033 DOUGLAS: Well, I'm glad to know they're buried. 450 00:21:41,300 --> 00:21:42,866 Is this a Jewish cemetery? 451 00:21:42,866 --> 00:21:45,033 GATES: It's a Jewish cemetery. 452 00:21:46,300 --> 00:21:48,733 You know, you're likely looking at the resting place 453 00:21:48,733 --> 00:21:51,700 of your biological ancestors in your homeland. 454 00:21:51,700 --> 00:21:54,233 DOUGLAS: That's incredible. 455 00:21:54,500 --> 00:21:56,433 GATES: So I have to ask you, Michael, 456 00:21:56,433 --> 00:21:59,466 what are you feeling now, what's it like to see that? 457 00:21:59,766 --> 00:22:04,866 DOUGLAS: The overall feeling right now is, 458 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,700 is feeling my Judea, Judeo roots. 459 00:22:10,433 --> 00:22:16,533 But I feel a deep, um, a, a deep sense of, of my relatives, 460 00:22:16,533 --> 00:22:19,333 and what's happened, and what's gone, 461 00:22:19,333 --> 00:22:22,700 what the history has, which is a little different from 462 00:22:22,700 --> 00:22:24,600 the history books. 463 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,800 And I'm feeling it personally and understanding the 464 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:33,266 struggles that they had. 465 00:22:33,266 --> 00:22:40,033 And their inspiration to motivate them to get here 466 00:22:40,733 --> 00:22:45,533 for me to have the life that I have now, 467 00:22:45,533 --> 00:22:50,133 rather than somewhere in some small town in Belarus. 468 00:22:50,433 --> 00:22:51,700 GATES: Right. 469 00:22:51,700 --> 00:22:57,900 DOUGLAS: Uh, so, uh, I feel, more of a, of a spiritual, 470 00:22:57,900 --> 00:23:02,900 religious connection, uh, to Judaism, than, 471 00:23:02,900 --> 00:23:05,566 than I ever had before. 472 00:23:05,566 --> 00:23:08,533 GATES: What would your dad make of all this? 473 00:23:08,766 --> 00:23:11,300 DOUGLAS: I think he'd be very, very, very touched, and, and 474 00:23:11,300 --> 00:23:13,066 really appreciate it. 475 00:23:13,066 --> 00:23:17,200 He, uh, he always, even though, you know, his path, 476 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:21,266 his career took him away from Amsterdam, New York, 477 00:23:21,266 --> 00:23:22,600 and everything else. 478 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,366 He, he tried to always touch base with his, 479 00:23:25,366 --> 00:23:28,466 his six sisters, uh, back there to some degree. 480 00:23:28,466 --> 00:23:29,766 GATES: Mm-hmm. 481 00:23:29,766 --> 00:23:33,933 DOUGLAS: Um, and I think would have, uh, would feel very 482 00:23:33,933 --> 00:23:36,133 blessed and cherished to be able to share this. 483 00:23:36,133 --> 00:23:38,666 I mean, I'm not sure any other thoughts go through my mind. 484 00:23:38,666 --> 00:23:42,233 I wish I could go through a family album with him now. 485 00:23:42,233 --> 00:23:43,666 GATES: Yeah. 486 00:23:43,666 --> 00:23:46,066 DOUGLAS: And, uh, yeah. 487 00:23:46,066 --> 00:23:48,433 Be something, be able to show him. 488 00:23:49,433 --> 00:23:53,333 GATES: Like Michael, Lena Dunham is half-Jewish, 489 00:23:53,333 --> 00:23:56,800 with roots in Eastern Europe that were rarely discussed. 490 00:23:58,833 --> 00:24:00,866 We set out to restore those roots. 491 00:24:02,300 --> 00:24:05,400 Beginning with her maternal grandparents, 492 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,266 Samuel Simmons and Dorothy Trussel. 493 00:24:10,366 --> 00:24:13,566 Samuel and Dorothy were beloved figures in Lena's childhood. 494 00:24:15,166 --> 00:24:17,900 And we found their wedding announcement! 495 00:24:18,700 --> 00:24:20,633 DUNHAM: "The bride was attended by her 10-year-old 496 00:24:20,633 --> 00:24:23,200 sister Miss Helen Trussel." 497 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,633 "After a wedding trip, the couple will live at 498 00:24:25,633 --> 00:24:27,633 Parris Island, South Carolina, 499 00:24:27,633 --> 00:24:29,433 where the bridegroom is stationed." 500 00:24:29,433 --> 00:24:32,433 GATES: They were married on May 22, 1943, 501 00:24:32,433 --> 00:24:33,533 in Lawrenceville, New York. 502 00:24:33,533 --> 00:24:34,700 DUNHAM: Wow. 503 00:24:34,700 --> 00:24:36,366 GATES: Dorothy was 23 years old at that time and 504 00:24:36,366 --> 00:24:37,566 Samuel was 30. 505 00:24:37,566 --> 00:24:38,866 What's it like to see that? 506 00:24:38,866 --> 00:24:41,633 DUNHAM: I am, do a lot of people cry when this happens? 507 00:24:41,633 --> 00:24:42,866 GATES: Every once in a while. 508 00:24:42,866 --> 00:24:45,900 DUNHAM: Okay. It's beautiful. Thank you. 509 00:24:45,900 --> 00:24:50,633 Um, she wasn't particularly forthcoming with information. 510 00:24:50,633 --> 00:24:52,800 She lived very much in the present, not in the past. 511 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,000 GATES: Mm-hmm. 512 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:55,466 DUNHAM: And so, I was that kid who was always trying 513 00:24:55,466 --> 00:24:56,633 to find out, okay, 514 00:24:56,633 --> 00:24:58,166 what'd you wear when you were getting married? 515 00:24:58,166 --> 00:25:00,400 And, what'd you think the first time you saw Grandpa? 516 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:01,833 And, what was your wedding like? 517 00:25:01,833 --> 00:25:05,166 And, she was very much onward, onward, onward, 518 00:25:05,166 --> 00:25:08,233 and just seeing their names written down, 519 00:25:08,233 --> 00:25:10,800 and her being 23 years old... 520 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,533 And the expectation. 521 00:25:12,533 --> 00:25:14,800 It's very profound to think about. 522 00:25:15,300 --> 00:25:17,466 GATES: When Dorothy married Samuel, 523 00:25:17,466 --> 00:25:19,333 he was a lieutenant in the 524 00:25:19,333 --> 00:25:22,466 United States Navy Dental Corps, 525 00:25:22,666 --> 00:25:26,200 and that seems to have been quite important to him. 526 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,266 His service records show that he volunteered on 527 00:25:29,266 --> 00:25:35,400 December 19th, 1941, less than two weeks after the 528 00:25:35,833 --> 00:25:38,966 Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor... 529 00:25:39,633 --> 00:25:43,366 At the time, Samuel was 29 years old, 530 00:25:43,366 --> 00:25:45,200 with an established career. 531 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:46,700 DUNHAM: Wow! 532 00:25:46,700 --> 00:25:48,033 GATES: Did you have any idea? 533 00:25:48,033 --> 00:25:50,166 DUNHAM: I knew that he had been a lieutenant. 534 00:25:50,166 --> 00:25:51,566 I knew that it was, you know, 535 00:25:51,566 --> 00:25:53,133 using his specialty of dentistry. 536 00:25:53,133 --> 00:25:54,533 He was very proud to be a dentist. 537 00:25:54,533 --> 00:25:55,600 GATES: Mm-hmm. 538 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,100 DUNHAM: We still have his tools and, um... 539 00:25:57,100 --> 00:25:58,966 He would tell jokey stories like, 540 00:25:58,966 --> 00:26:01,366 "I was on a boat and I met a shark and it said, 541 00:26:01,366 --> 00:26:03,333 'Someday you're gonna have a little blonde granddaughter. 542 00:26:03,333 --> 00:26:04,800 Her name's gonna be Lena,' 543 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:06,233 and I said, 'I don't believe you,' 544 00:26:06,233 --> 00:26:07,266 and he said, 545 00:26:07,266 --> 00:26:08,666 'No, meet me back in Sheepshead Bay.'" 546 00:26:08,666 --> 00:26:09,966 Like it was always jokes. 547 00:26:09,966 --> 00:26:11,266 There was no... 548 00:26:11,266 --> 00:26:15,733 And so, it's amazing to think that after Pearl Harbor he felt 549 00:26:15,733 --> 00:26:18,066 that sense of duty, and made that choice. 550 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,400 GATES: Samuel did more than volunteer. 551 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,066 He twice requested to be put on active duty, 552 00:26:26,066 --> 00:26:31,700 and eventually ended up serving in the Battle of Saipan, 553 00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:36,133 one of the most significant battles of the entire war, 554 00:26:36,566 --> 00:26:39,733 sometimes called the D-Day of the Pacific. 555 00:26:42,833 --> 00:26:46,000 The battle began with a marine assault on a heavily defended 556 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,333 Japanese island. 557 00:26:48,333 --> 00:26:52,800 Casualties were staggering as the Americans were forced to 558 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,266 fight for every inch of their beachhead... 559 00:26:57,100 --> 00:26:58,600 And your grandfather was there. 560 00:26:58,600 --> 00:26:59,866 DUNHAM: Really? 561 00:26:59,866 --> 00:27:00,966 GATES: Yeah. 562 00:27:00,966 --> 00:27:02,333 Did he ever tell you any stories? 563 00:27:02,333 --> 00:27:04,566 DUNHAM: Nothing. 564 00:27:04,566 --> 00:27:07,533 GATES: Well, as a dentist, Samuel would have been on a 565 00:27:07,533 --> 00:27:11,000 ship helping wounded Marines during the initial invasion. 566 00:27:11,466 --> 00:27:14,566 Once they cleared the beach, he likely landed and set up a 567 00:27:14,566 --> 00:27:17,066 dental hut to treat the wounded more quickly. 568 00:27:17,066 --> 00:27:18,066 DUNHAM: Wow. 569 00:27:18,066 --> 00:27:19,166 GATES: And either way, 570 00:27:19,166 --> 00:27:20,933 he was very close to the fighting and likely, 571 00:27:20,933 --> 00:27:23,200 in near-constant danger. 572 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:24,966 And you had no idea? 573 00:27:24,966 --> 00:27:27,066 DUNHAM: No. 574 00:27:27,066 --> 00:27:28,933 GATES: Take a look at that. 575 00:27:28,933 --> 00:27:32,766 That is one of the huts used as a dental dispensary 576 00:27:32,766 --> 00:27:35,200 in Saipan at the time of the battle. 577 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,133 What's it like to see that and to think of your grandfather 578 00:27:38,133 --> 00:27:40,200 working out of that hut? 579 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,766 DUNHAM: It's definitely a different vibe than his office 580 00:27:42,766 --> 00:27:44,600 in Great Neck, Long Island, 581 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,033 and I, I feel very proud. 582 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,100 GATES: Samuel likely assisted on emergency surgeries, 583 00:27:52,100 --> 00:27:54,733 often for Marines who were shot, unfortunately, 584 00:27:54,733 --> 00:27:56,600 in the mouth or the jaw. 585 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:57,933 DUNHAM: Wow. 586 00:27:57,933 --> 00:27:59,466 GATES: What do you think that must have been like compared 587 00:27:59,466 --> 00:28:01,300 to that dental practice back home? 588 00:28:01,300 --> 00:28:02,866 DUNHAM: I, I can't imagine. 589 00:28:02,866 --> 00:28:05,700 I mean, going from, you know, drilling out people's cavities 590 00:28:05,700 --> 00:28:08,400 or doing orthodonture, which was later his, you know, 591 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,366 putting braces on, you know, brats who didn't want braces, 592 00:28:11,366 --> 00:28:13,766 I can't imagine. 593 00:28:13,766 --> 00:28:15,733 And he was a very empathetic person. 594 00:28:15,733 --> 00:28:17,066 GATES: Hmm. 595 00:28:17,066 --> 00:28:20,600 DUNHAM: Um, my grandfather, like I remember he was, he was 596 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,066 a friend to, you know, any kid who was, uh, in the, 597 00:28:24,066 --> 00:28:26,266 in the town who was experiencing trouble or 598 00:28:26,266 --> 00:28:27,833 who didn't have a father figure. 599 00:28:27,833 --> 00:28:31,866 My grandfather really felt a duty to like step in for people, 600 00:28:31,866 --> 00:28:35,433 and so, that empathy must have made him really good 601 00:28:35,433 --> 00:28:37,800 at this job and also made it really, really hard to see the 602 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,533 things that he saw. 603 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,900 GATES: We now attempted to trace Samuel's roots, 604 00:28:42,900 --> 00:28:45,166 but immediately hit a wall. 605 00:28:46,133 --> 00:28:49,966 There were no records to take us past his parents. 606 00:28:50,766 --> 00:28:54,300 Fortunately, we had more success with his wife Dorothy. 607 00:28:55,633 --> 00:28:58,966 We able to trace back from her to Lena's 608 00:28:58,966 --> 00:29:01,366 great-great-grandmother, 609 00:29:01,566 --> 00:29:04,166 a woman named Regina Seltenwirth. 610 00:29:05,866 --> 00:29:10,033 Regina immigrated to New York when she was 14 years old, 611 00:29:10,766 --> 00:29:13,033 and married when she was 19. 612 00:29:14,100 --> 00:29:17,566 Her marriage record indicates that she was born in a place 613 00:29:17,566 --> 00:29:21,966 called Tarnów, which is now in southeastern Poland. 614 00:29:23,066 --> 00:29:26,500 This proved to be a gold mine for our researchers. 615 00:29:27,066 --> 00:29:32,433 In Tarnów archives, we found Regina's school records, 616 00:29:32,433 --> 00:29:37,100 offering Lena a precious glimpse of her ancestor's childhood. 617 00:29:39,666 --> 00:29:41,600 DUNHAM: That's beautiful. GATES: Isn't that amazing? 618 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,366 DUNHAM: Amazing. GATES: That that still survives? 619 00:29:43,366 --> 00:29:44,666 DUNHAM: It's amazing. 620 00:29:44,666 --> 00:29:47,566 GATES: She was attending an all-girls elementary school. 621 00:29:47,566 --> 00:29:49,366 DUNHAM: What a little cutie. 622 00:29:49,366 --> 00:29:50,700 GATES: What was it like to see that? 623 00:29:50,700 --> 00:29:52,166 DUNHAM: It's incredible. 624 00:29:52,166 --> 00:29:54,066 I mean, to think of her as a little girl who has not yet 625 00:29:54,066 --> 00:29:57,033 come to America, who has not yet given birth to the child 626 00:29:57,033 --> 00:30:00,866 who will then give birth to my grandmother, it's, um, 627 00:30:00,866 --> 00:30:02,033 it's beautiful. 628 00:30:02,333 --> 00:30:05,500 GATES: Well, Regina made the journey to America while her 629 00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:07,633 parents stayed behind in Tarnów. 630 00:30:07,633 --> 00:30:11,166 And that means she likely never saw them ever again. 631 00:30:11,166 --> 00:30:12,833 DUNHAM: Wow. 632 00:30:12,833 --> 00:30:14,200 GATES: Can you imagine when you were 14, 633 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:15,666 your parents have put you on a boat... 634 00:30:15,666 --> 00:30:16,800 DUNHAM: No, I can't. 635 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:18,700 GATES: And they go, "We'll be... We'll follow." 636 00:30:18,700 --> 00:30:19,733 DUNHAM: And they never did. 637 00:30:19,733 --> 00:30:20,900 GATES: And they never did. 638 00:30:20,900 --> 00:30:22,700 DUNHAM: Wow. 639 00:30:23,366 --> 00:30:26,866 GATES: This story was about to darken significantly. 640 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,800 Records show that Regina left at least 11 siblings 641 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,933 behind in Europe. 642 00:30:33,933 --> 00:30:36,200 We don't know what happened to them all, 643 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,766 but one of her brothers, a man named, 644 00:30:38,766 --> 00:30:42,400 "Moses Seltenwirth", moved to Hungary, 645 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,300 and was living there with a wife and children 646 00:30:45,300 --> 00:30:47,700 when World War II broke out. 647 00:30:48,633 --> 00:30:54,600 The family was soon split up, and Moses' daughter Ilona was 648 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,700 sent to a place called "Kamenets-Podolsk", 649 00:30:58,700 --> 00:31:02,000 where she met a terrible fate. 650 00:31:02,866 --> 00:31:04,300 DUNHAM: Wow. 651 00:31:04,300 --> 00:31:07,333 GATES: Between August 26th and August 28th 1941, 652 00:31:07,333 --> 00:31:11,566 Kamenets-Podolsk was the site of a horrific crime. 653 00:31:11,566 --> 00:31:14,766 The SS rounded up newly arrived deportees, and 654 00:31:14,766 --> 00:31:17,500 together with the local Jews, marched them to the outskirts 655 00:31:17,500 --> 00:31:20,433 of town and murdered them on the spot. 656 00:31:21,466 --> 00:31:23,000 Over three summer days, 657 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,200 it's estimated that 24,000 Jewish people were murdered. 658 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:27,766 DUNHAM: Wow. 659 00:31:27,766 --> 00:31:30,800 GATES: And more than half of them were Hungarian Jews. 660 00:31:32,366 --> 00:31:35,866 Miraculously, Regina's brother Moses, 661 00:31:35,866 --> 00:31:38,633 along with his wife and son, 662 00:31:38,633 --> 00:31:42,200 somehow managed to survive the Nazi terror. 663 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,133 They appear on a list of Hungarian Jews 664 00:31:47,133 --> 00:31:50,600 compiled by Allied soldiers at the end of the war. 665 00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:55,200 But Ilona is missing from this list... 666 00:31:55,200 --> 00:32:00,500 and we found no trace of her in any postwar document. 667 00:32:02,133 --> 00:32:04,766 DUNHAM: It's an amazing thing to see those names, 668 00:32:04,766 --> 00:32:07,200 and to know that they're a part of our family, but to 669 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,700 also know that they had to spend the rest of their lives 670 00:32:09,700 --> 00:32:13,200 with this other person who was so important to them missing, 671 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,566 and wondering about her fate. 672 00:32:15,566 --> 00:32:17,666 Must have made surviving a very complicated thing. 673 00:32:17,666 --> 00:32:19,566 GATES: Yeah, absolutely. 674 00:32:19,566 --> 00:32:21,100 DUNHAM: As it was for everyone who survived. 675 00:32:21,100 --> 00:32:22,400 GATES: Yeah. 676 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,100 So, what's it like to even begin to contemplate that you 677 00:32:25,100 --> 00:32:28,366 have a genetic connection, now, to the Holocaust, 678 00:32:28,366 --> 00:32:30,666 of which you weren't aware? 679 00:32:30,666 --> 00:32:32,433 DUNHAM: It's an incredibly painful thing to 680 00:32:32,433 --> 00:32:37,500 think about people with whom I share probably not just DNA 681 00:32:37,500 --> 00:32:44,266 but, you know, the features and emotional responses and an 682 00:32:44,266 --> 00:32:50,533 approach to life, those people being placed in this situation 683 00:32:50,533 --> 00:32:53,533 and having their lives extinguished this way. 684 00:32:53,533 --> 00:32:57,166 I don't think there is a way to, there's not a way 685 00:32:57,166 --> 00:32:59,366 to reckon with it. 686 00:32:59,366 --> 00:33:04,733 Um, it's too big and it's too, and the whole act is too vast. 687 00:33:04,733 --> 00:33:09,166 But to, to see a personal connection to it literalizes it, 688 00:33:09,166 --> 00:33:12,833 in a way that is, that's very, very powerful. 689 00:33:15,666 --> 00:33:18,666 GATES: We'd now traced the roots of both of my guests 690 00:33:18,666 --> 00:33:21,333 back to Eastern Europe. 691 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,433 It was time to look westward... 692 00:33:25,733 --> 00:33:29,333 For Michael Douglas, that meant turning to his mother, 693 00:33:29,333 --> 00:33:31,066 Diana Dill. 694 00:33:32,433 --> 00:33:35,900 Though she never found fame like Michael's father, 695 00:33:35,900 --> 00:33:39,566 Diana was a superb actor in her own right. 696 00:33:40,300 --> 00:33:44,233 And she played a significant role in shaping Michael, 697 00:33:44,233 --> 00:33:47,066 exposing him to a creative world, 698 00:33:47,066 --> 00:33:49,500 and a creative temperament, 699 00:33:49,500 --> 00:33:53,066 that was markedly different from his father's... 700 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,333 DOUGLAS: My mother was a wonderful optimist. 701 00:33:56,333 --> 00:33:58,666 She, uh, dad used to always call her 702 00:33:58,666 --> 00:34:01,000 "Everything is Lovely Dill." 703 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:02,300 'Cause you had, "Hi, Mom, how are you? 704 00:34:02,300 --> 00:34:03,766 "Lovely. All good. Lovely." 705 00:34:03,766 --> 00:34:05,966 You know, very English in that way. 706 00:34:05,966 --> 00:34:08,500 GATES: Did she influence you at all in any way as 707 00:34:08,500 --> 00:34:10,500 an artist, as an actor? 708 00:34:10,500 --> 00:34:13,566 DOUGLAS: Oh, yes, in terms of hanging around with her, 709 00:34:13,566 --> 00:34:17,766 and, and all her, her, uh, both theater, uh, friends, and 710 00:34:17,766 --> 00:34:19,200 as well as others... 711 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,433 going down and hanging out backstage. 712 00:34:21,433 --> 00:34:22,866 GATES: Mm-hmm. 713 00:34:22,866 --> 00:34:25,100 DOUGLAS: Understanding, for instance, how, you know, we're 714 00:34:25,100 --> 00:34:27,633 one of the few businesses where men and women 715 00:34:27,633 --> 00:34:29,733 were relatively equal... 716 00:34:29,733 --> 00:34:32,500 Not necessarily in pay. We, um, we know that. 717 00:34:32,500 --> 00:34:34,066 In, in, in the theater. 718 00:34:34,066 --> 00:34:35,866 But you shared the same dressing rooms together. 719 00:34:35,866 --> 00:34:37,166 GATES: Mm-hmm. 720 00:34:37,166 --> 00:34:38,766 DOUGLAS: Uh, and backstage and these things. 721 00:34:38,766 --> 00:34:42,466 So she helped me, I think, a lot in terms of understanding 722 00:34:42,466 --> 00:34:45,400 that, that, that world, that community, the comfort factor. 723 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:46,866 GATES: Mm-hmm. 724 00:34:46,866 --> 00:34:50,600 DOUGLAS: Of, uh, of, of that world. 725 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,133 She was a, she was a, a lovely, lovely lady. 726 00:34:52,133 --> 00:34:53,200 I miss her deeply. 727 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,133 And, um, she had nothing but the best intentions. 728 00:34:56,133 --> 00:34:58,633 And very, very proper. 729 00:34:59,166 --> 00:35:03,066 GATES: Diana was born in the British territory of Bermuda, 730 00:35:03,066 --> 00:35:05,933 where her father's family, the Dills, 731 00:35:05,933 --> 00:35:09,100 had lived since the 1600s. 732 00:35:10,533 --> 00:35:14,600 Michael knew a great deal about this part of his ancestry, 733 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,800 which includes prominent lawyers and merchants, 734 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,333 as well as slave owners... 735 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,666 But when we shifted our focus to Diana's mother, 736 00:35:24,666 --> 00:35:27,433 a woman named Ruth Neilson, 737 00:35:27,433 --> 00:35:31,433 we uncovered generations of ancestors 738 00:35:31,433 --> 00:35:34,966 leading us back centuries to a place that 739 00:35:34,966 --> 00:35:38,200 Michael had never associated with his roots: 740 00:35:39,900 --> 00:35:42,200 colonial New Jersey... 741 00:35:42,733 --> 00:35:44,200 DOUGLAS: Wow! 742 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,733 GATES: What's it like to be able to name your ancestors in 743 00:35:46,733 --> 00:35:50,566 a continuous paper trail, back before the creation of the 744 00:35:50,566 --> 00:35:53,666 United States, on a line about which you knew nothing? 745 00:35:53,666 --> 00:35:57,033 DOUGLAS: I guess, it's all the more, uh, appreciative and 746 00:35:57,033 --> 00:36:00,466 impressive in contradiction to my father's family, 747 00:36:00,466 --> 00:36:02,333 and the lack of information, and then seeing this. 748 00:36:02,333 --> 00:36:03,600 GATES: Right. 749 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,500 DOUGLAS: And also thinking of their own, I wouldn't say 750 00:36:07,500 --> 00:36:10,400 chauvinistic ways, but I, I'm, I know so little about 751 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,233 my grandmother never talked about that. 752 00:36:12,233 --> 00:36:13,400 It was about the Dills. 753 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:14,433 GATES: Right. 754 00:36:14,433 --> 00:36:15,633 DOUGLAS: Always talking about the Dills. 755 00:36:15,633 --> 00:36:18,466 Then you're looking at this, this chain of, of lines. 756 00:36:18,466 --> 00:36:21,800 So, and this is obviously a major family that, uh, 757 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,100 that my grandmother came from. 758 00:36:24,766 --> 00:36:28,233 GATES: As it turns out, this newfound branch of Michael's 759 00:36:28,233 --> 00:36:32,500 tree contained one particularly fascinating character: 760 00:36:34,066 --> 00:36:37,133 Michael's fourth great-grandfather, 761 00:36:37,133 --> 00:36:39,266 a man named John Neilson. 762 00:36:40,033 --> 00:36:43,600 John was born in New Jersey in 1745, 763 00:36:44,833 --> 00:36:47,266 when the American Revolution broke out, 764 00:36:47,266 --> 00:36:50,300 he was a successful merchant. 765 00:36:50,900 --> 00:36:53,633 Many men in his position remained loyal to the 766 00:36:53,633 --> 00:36:58,000 British crown, fearing that they might lose their fortunes, 767 00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,600 and even their lives, 768 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,600 if they sided with the Patriots. 769 00:37:02,866 --> 00:37:05,233 But John had an independent mind. 770 00:37:07,666 --> 00:37:09,300 You know who's that statues of? 771 00:37:09,300 --> 00:37:10,766 DOUGLAS: John Nielson? 772 00:37:10,766 --> 00:37:11,833 GATES: That is... 773 00:37:11,833 --> 00:37:12,966 DOUGLAS: My, my, my, my 774 00:37:12,966 --> 00:37:14,266 great-great-great-great grandfather. 775 00:37:14,266 --> 00:37:16,333 GATES: That is a statue of your ancestor in 776 00:37:16,333 --> 00:37:18,300 downtown New Brunswick, New Jersey. 777 00:37:18,300 --> 00:37:19,300 Have you ever seen that? 778 00:37:19,300 --> 00:37:20,566 DOUGLAS: Oh my, no. 779 00:37:20,566 --> 00:37:22,866 I never knew what, what to look for. 780 00:37:23,700 --> 00:37:28,300 GATES: On July 9th, 1776, John stood on a table in front of a 781 00:37:28,300 --> 00:37:30,200 tavern in New Brunswick 782 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,300 and read the Declaration of Independence out loud. 783 00:37:33,500 --> 00:37:36,566 DOUGLAS: Ah, I love him already. 784 00:37:36,566 --> 00:37:38,533 God bless him. 785 00:37:38,733 --> 00:37:41,033 GATES: When John raised his voice, 786 00:37:41,033 --> 00:37:45,933 the Declaration of Independence was only five days old. 787 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:51,666 In fact: his was just the third official reading of 788 00:37:51,666 --> 00:37:54,700 the document in public. 789 00:37:54,900 --> 00:37:58,900 And that wasn't all that John did for the revolution... 790 00:37:58,900 --> 00:38:02,400 Within weeks, he was appointed colonel of a 791 00:38:02,733 --> 00:38:05,633 battalion of a New Jersey militia. 792 00:38:05,633 --> 00:38:08,733 And in February of 1777, 793 00:38:08,733 --> 00:38:12,166 he set off to raid a British stronghold 794 00:38:12,166 --> 00:38:14,500 outside of New Brunswick... 795 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,433 John's soldiers were poorly equipped, 796 00:38:18,433 --> 00:38:21,133 and were forced to attack uphill, 797 00:38:21,133 --> 00:38:23,200 in the dead of winter... 798 00:38:23,666 --> 00:38:27,166 Luckily, their leader had a plan... 799 00:38:28,266 --> 00:38:31,333 DOUGLAS: "We took up our line of march in the evening about 800 00:38:31,333 --> 00:38:34,533 sundown and proceeded in a steady march 801 00:38:34,533 --> 00:38:37,100 without being discovered, 802 00:38:37,100 --> 00:38:40,466 although there was snow on the ground and frosty night, 803 00:38:40,466 --> 00:38:43,200 until we were in the midst of the British quarters 804 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,900 of Bennet's Island and succeeded by completely 805 00:38:46,900 --> 00:38:50,966 surprising and capturing the whole of the party. 806 00:38:50,966 --> 00:38:55,100 And returned in safety to our quarters near Cranberry having 807 00:38:55,100 --> 00:38:57,433 lost but one or two men." 808 00:38:57,433 --> 00:38:59,566 Whoa. 809 00:39:00,533 --> 00:39:02,800 Wow. 810 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,100 GATES: So, what's it like to read that? 811 00:39:05,100 --> 00:39:07,900 Your ancestor fighting at night in February? 812 00:39:07,900 --> 00:39:09,433 Snow on the ground... 813 00:39:09,433 --> 00:39:11,566 DOUGLAS: It's given me just, just a, a tremendous appetite 814 00:39:11,566 --> 00:39:14,500 to learn more and more, 815 00:39:14,500 --> 00:39:17,633 um, and, and it's just very impressive. 816 00:39:17,633 --> 00:39:18,666 GATES: Mmm. 817 00:39:18,666 --> 00:39:20,666 DOUGLAS: Um. Very, very impressive. 818 00:39:21,766 --> 00:39:25,766 GATES: This attack, known as the Battle of Bennet's Island, 819 00:39:25,766 --> 00:39:30,633 earned the attention of none other than George Washington, 820 00:39:31,966 --> 00:39:34,800 who wrote to the Continental Congress, 821 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,233 celebrating John's achievement... 822 00:39:38,233 --> 00:39:42,533 (laughing) 823 00:39:42,833 --> 00:39:44,933 DOUGLAS: Ah, this is incredible. 824 00:39:44,933 --> 00:39:46,833 This is really incredible. 825 00:39:46,833 --> 00:39:50,833 GATES: That is George Washington praising your ancestor. 826 00:39:52,066 --> 00:39:53,800 How does that make you feel? 827 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:55,666 DOUGLAS: Uh, proud to say the least. 828 00:39:55,666 --> 00:39:56,966 Proud. 829 00:39:56,966 --> 00:40:00,866 But just, just know what an integral part he 830 00:40:00,866 --> 00:40:03,833 played in helping us start our new country. 831 00:40:03,833 --> 00:40:05,533 GATES: I mean, he was willing to risk his life. 832 00:40:05,533 --> 00:40:06,600 DOUGLAS: Yeah. 833 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,100 GATES: I want to show you something else. 834 00:40:08,100 --> 00:40:10,266 Could you please turn the page? 835 00:40:12,366 --> 00:40:15,600 Michael, this is a letter to your fourth great-grandfather, 836 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,433 dated June 26th 1778. 837 00:40:18,433 --> 00:40:20,500 So almost a year and a half after the letter we 838 00:40:20,500 --> 00:40:21,533 just showed you. 839 00:40:21,533 --> 00:40:22,800 DOUGLAS: Right. 840 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:24,966 GATES: Would you please read that transcribed section? 841 00:40:24,966 --> 00:40:27,733 DOUGLAS: "To Colonel John Nielson. 842 00:40:29,300 --> 00:40:32,033 I have received your favor and thank you for the 843 00:40:32,033 --> 00:40:34,466 intelligence contained in it. 844 00:40:34,466 --> 00:40:38,500 Various and uncertain relative to the enemies' movements 845 00:40:38,500 --> 00:40:41,766 has made it difficult to determine the part to be 846 00:40:41,766 --> 00:40:44,000 taken by his army. 847 00:40:44,233 --> 00:40:47,266 I shall rely upon you to advise me constantly 848 00:40:47,266 --> 00:40:48,933 of their situation. 849 00:40:48,933 --> 00:40:53,133 I am, sir, your most obedient servant... 850 00:40:53,133 --> 00:40:55,166 George Washington." 851 00:40:55,166 --> 00:40:58,566 Oh. Whoa! Whoa! 852 00:40:59,233 --> 00:41:00,833 My, uh. 853 00:41:00,833 --> 00:41:03,533 GATES: After his attack on Bennet's Island, your ancestor 854 00:41:03,533 --> 00:41:06,500 began providing military intelligence directly to 855 00:41:06,500 --> 00:41:08,933 General George Washington. 856 00:41:08,933 --> 00:41:13,100 And that is an actual letter that Washington wrote to him. 857 00:41:13,100 --> 00:41:14,666 So, he knew him. 858 00:41:14,666 --> 00:41:17,366 What's it like to see that? 859 00:41:17,366 --> 00:41:19,500 DOUGLAS: Well, it's just, it's, it's hard to articulate. 860 00:41:19,500 --> 00:41:23,433 It, it just, um, I mean obviously it brings to life 861 00:41:23,433 --> 00:41:28,600 the history at that particular time, but to think that he's 862 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:33,100 your direct descendant, of somebody of that heroic 863 00:41:33,100 --> 00:41:37,600 proportion is, um, is cool. 864 00:41:37,900 --> 00:41:40,600 GATES: It's very cool. DOUGLAS: Very cool. 865 00:41:41,500 --> 00:41:45,800 GATES: John Nielson served in Washington's army until the 866 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:49,733 end of the war, making numerous contributions to 867 00:41:49,733 --> 00:41:52,033 the patriot cause. 868 00:41:52,566 --> 00:41:57,600 Then, when peace came, he returned home and thrived, 869 00:41:59,233 --> 00:42:02,966 living well into his 80s. 870 00:42:03,300 --> 00:42:07,600 But as we searched through the records that John left behind, 871 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:13,633 we discovered his will, written in 1827, and it added 872 00:42:13,633 --> 00:42:16,000 a layer of complexity to his story... 873 00:42:17,833 --> 00:42:21,266 DOUGLAS: "I, John Nielson, give and bequeath to my son, 874 00:42:21,266 --> 00:42:24,333 James Nielson, the time of my servant, 875 00:42:24,333 --> 00:42:27,700 colored boy Mark, while he arrives at the age 876 00:42:27,700 --> 00:42:30,133 at which he will be free by law. 877 00:42:30,133 --> 00:42:34,733 I give and bequeath to my son Abraham Nielson, my colored 878 00:42:34,733 --> 00:42:39,166 servant girl Anna until she arrives to the age at which 879 00:42:39,166 --> 00:42:41,300 she by law will be free." 880 00:42:41,300 --> 00:42:43,100 GATES: So, your fourth great-grandfather was 881 00:42:43,100 --> 00:42:44,600 a patriot, but... 882 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:45,633 DOUGLAS: A slave owner. 883 00:42:45,633 --> 00:42:47,366 GATES: But he also was a slave owner. 884 00:42:47,366 --> 00:42:49,366 So what do you make about this contrast? 885 00:42:49,366 --> 00:42:51,466 DOUGLAS: I mean, he's inspirational other than 886 00:42:51,466 --> 00:42:53,433 the fact that he was still a slave owner. 887 00:42:53,433 --> 00:42:54,733 GATES: Yeah. 888 00:42:54,733 --> 00:42:57,333 DOUGLAS: I think the overwhelming feeling for me is 889 00:42:57,333 --> 00:43:00,766 for him to risk as early as he did, 890 00:43:00,766 --> 00:43:03,166 reading that Declaration of Independence, 891 00:43:03,166 --> 00:43:05,900 is a very courageous, um, act you know, 892 00:43:05,900 --> 00:43:09,033 and his war record is amazing. 893 00:43:09,033 --> 00:43:14,600 And you just try to try to equalize that with, um, with 894 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,566 hanging on to slaves, uh, 40 years, 40 years later. 895 00:43:18,566 --> 00:43:20,000 GATES: Hmm. 896 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,766 DOUGLAS: Is the essence of what the United States is about. 897 00:43:23,766 --> 00:43:28,000 We have in Hebrew this expression, tikkun olam, 898 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,866 which means to make the world a better place or 899 00:43:31,866 --> 00:43:33,766 to try to repair the world. 900 00:43:33,766 --> 00:43:35,166 GATES: Mm-hmm. 901 00:43:35,166 --> 00:43:37,400 DOUGLAS: And, uh, you just, you feel that obligation or 902 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:41,833 that sense much, much more when you see something like that. 903 00:43:41,833 --> 00:43:43,033 GATES: Right. 904 00:43:43,033 --> 00:43:45,333 DOUGLAS: It makes you want to be a better person. 905 00:43:46,466 --> 00:43:49,200 GATES: Like Michael, Lena Dunham was about to see 906 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:51,133 a branch of her family tree 907 00:43:51,133 --> 00:43:54,400 traced back deep in colonial America... 908 00:43:54,933 --> 00:43:58,533 But this story began much closer to home... 909 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,033 Lena's paternal 8th great-grandfather was 910 00:44:03,033 --> 00:44:07,066 a man named Stephanus van Cortlandt. 911 00:44:07,066 --> 00:44:10,700 Stephanus was born in 1643, 912 00:44:11,733 --> 00:44:15,966 in what was then the Dutch settlement of New Amsterdam 913 00:44:16,966 --> 00:44:20,066 and is now part of New York City. 914 00:44:20,366 --> 00:44:22,666 DUNHAM: Holy moley. 915 00:44:23,066 --> 00:44:25,333 GATES: Did you have any idea that your roots in this city 916 00:44:25,333 --> 00:44:27,166 go back to the 1600s? 917 00:44:27,166 --> 00:44:29,000 DUNHAM: Absolutely not. 918 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:30,566 I mean, I always felt like, 919 00:44:30,566 --> 00:44:34,466 okay, my parents came to New York in 1971 or now I, 920 00:44:34,466 --> 00:44:37,000 and, and then came me. 921 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,966 And I knew that we'd had relatives who lived in upstate 922 00:44:40,966 --> 00:44:44,666 New York, and maybe had homes in the city, 923 00:44:44,666 --> 00:44:46,100 but this is... 924 00:44:46,100 --> 00:44:48,733 This is a pretty wild connection to the city. 925 00:44:49,766 --> 00:44:53,066 GATES: Stephanus was not just any New Yorker. 926 00:44:53,366 --> 00:44:57,366 He was a successful merchant, with a talent for politics. 927 00:44:59,066 --> 00:45:03,400 When the British conquered New Amsterdam in 1664, 928 00:45:04,233 --> 00:45:07,600 he won their trust, held onto his business, 929 00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,666 and ultimately became the first mayor of New York 930 00:45:11,666 --> 00:45:14,400 who had actually been born in the city. 931 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:17,266 DUNHAM: He was the mayor? 932 00:45:17,266 --> 00:45:18,766 GATES: He was the mayor. 933 00:45:18,766 --> 00:45:20,266 DUNHAM: My eighth great-grandfather was the 934 00:45:20,266 --> 00:45:21,466 mayor of New York? 935 00:45:21,466 --> 00:45:22,900 GATES: He was the mayor. 936 00:45:22,900 --> 00:45:24,366 And not only was he the mayor, 937 00:45:24,366 --> 00:45:26,200 he served two terms as the mayor. 938 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:27,700 DUNHAM: Wow. 939 00:45:27,700 --> 00:45:32,300 GATES: First between 1677 and 1678, and then later, 940 00:45:32,733 --> 00:45:36,533 from 1686 to 1688. 941 00:45:36,733 --> 00:45:41,700 DUNHAM: That is not something that I ever would've guessed at. 942 00:45:42,533 --> 00:45:44,666 GATES: Stephanus had some positive effects 943 00:45:44,666 --> 00:45:48,400 on his hometown and even helped to plan 944 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,666 New York's first public wells. 945 00:45:53,033 --> 00:45:57,600 But he also made a series of deals with the Lenape, 946 00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,233 a Native American tribe, 947 00:46:00,233 --> 00:46:04,766 obtaining access to thousands of acres of land in exchange 948 00:46:04,766 --> 00:46:08,566 for goods that were likely of little value. 949 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,533 A revelation that saddened Lena, 950 00:46:12,533 --> 00:46:15,266 even though it didn't surprise her. 951 00:46:16,566 --> 00:46:20,133 DUNHAM: I'd always assumed that there'd be plenty of 952 00:46:20,133 --> 00:46:23,466 things that my ancestors had been involved with that were 953 00:46:23,466 --> 00:46:27,600 things that I would find to be sort of, morally and 954 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,433 spiritually reprehensible, if we wanna use that word. 955 00:46:31,433 --> 00:46:37,100 And we all have to reconcile ourselves to the fact that we 956 00:46:37,100 --> 00:46:40,333 have members of our family who may have thought that they 957 00:46:40,333 --> 00:46:42,900 were doing the right thing for their families and for 958 00:46:42,900 --> 00:46:45,466 the people in their, you know, he may have thought he was 959 00:46:45,466 --> 00:46:47,266 doing the right thing as a leader. 960 00:46:47,266 --> 00:46:51,166 Um, but I think we understand now that that's not how we 961 00:46:51,166 --> 00:46:52,966 want people to lead. 962 00:46:52,966 --> 00:46:56,733 And so we all have to find a way to both be interested 963 00:46:56,733 --> 00:47:01,833 in our history and embrace our history and also really, um, 964 00:47:02,133 --> 00:47:04,900 reckon with the parts of it that we, um, 965 00:47:04,900 --> 00:47:07,333 would love to rectify. 966 00:47:07,333 --> 00:47:09,766 GATES: Mm-hmm. Parts that you find unsavory? 967 00:47:09,766 --> 00:47:11,100 DUNHAM: That's exactly right. 968 00:47:11,100 --> 00:47:14,266 And I think it's important not to hide from those things or 969 00:47:14,266 --> 00:47:15,866 pretend that they're not there, 970 00:47:15,866 --> 00:47:17,900 but instead to examine them and think about 971 00:47:17,900 --> 00:47:20,933 how we can not do modern repetitions 972 00:47:20,933 --> 00:47:22,966 of ancient behavior like that. 973 00:47:24,933 --> 00:47:28,466 GATES: There was another beat to this story, 974 00:47:28,466 --> 00:47:31,700 one that would render it even more "unsavory". 975 00:47:33,233 --> 00:47:38,700 In 1691, Stephanus wrote a letter to a fellow merchant, 976 00:47:39,900 --> 00:47:45,333 detailing some of his business plans, and laying bare one 977 00:47:45,333 --> 00:47:47,533 source of his wealth... 978 00:47:48,533 --> 00:47:50,466 DUNHAM: "I've written to you before my departure 979 00:47:50,466 --> 00:47:52,266 for Long Island. 980 00:47:52,266 --> 00:47:55,100 I am now going to Staten Island to rouse up the 981 00:47:55,100 --> 00:47:56,900 collection of the tax there. 982 00:47:56,900 --> 00:47:59,366 I will supply myself in order to send up as much pork in the 983 00:47:59,366 --> 00:48:01,500 spring as you will order. 984 00:48:01,500 --> 00:48:03,666 If you can, let Rensselaer to 985 00:48:03,666 --> 00:48:05,733 provide the people with small beer. 986 00:48:05,733 --> 00:48:08,533 He got a Negro boy from me, and thus it will be easy for 987 00:48:08,533 --> 00:48:10,366 him and me to settle with each other. 988 00:48:10,366 --> 00:48:11,766 GATES: So you know what that means? 989 00:48:11,766 --> 00:48:13,233 DUNHAM: Yeah. 990 00:48:13,233 --> 00:48:15,533 GATES: Most of us think of slavery as unfolding in 991 00:48:15,533 --> 00:48:17,166 Mississippi and Alabama, right? 992 00:48:17,166 --> 00:48:18,466 DUNHAM: Yeah. 993 00:48:18,466 --> 00:48:19,633 GATES: But it was everywhere in the United States and... 994 00:48:19,633 --> 00:48:20,866 DUNHAM: Absolutely. 995 00:48:20,866 --> 00:48:23,233 GATES: Certainly in, in New York in the 17th century. 996 00:48:23,233 --> 00:48:24,366 DUNHAM: Yeah. 997 00:48:24,366 --> 00:48:26,500 GATES: Did you ever assume that your ancestors 998 00:48:26,500 --> 00:48:29,266 would've owned slaves? 999 00:48:29,266 --> 00:48:31,733 DUNHAM: I think like many Americans, I naively hoped 1000 00:48:31,733 --> 00:48:35,366 that because they had always been living 1001 00:48:35,366 --> 00:48:38,566 sort of in Yankee territory, that it looked different. 1002 00:48:38,566 --> 00:48:42,566 But, of course, that is a part of the lives of 1003 00:48:42,566 --> 00:48:43,833 those people, too. 1004 00:48:43,833 --> 00:48:45,566 Especially stretching this far back. 1005 00:48:45,566 --> 00:48:46,833 GATES: Mm-hmm. 1006 00:48:46,833 --> 00:48:50,066 DUNHAM: Um, and it makes it impossible to kind of 1007 00:48:50,066 --> 00:48:53,833 celebrate or be excited about any of these other, you know, 1008 00:48:53,833 --> 00:48:59,833 right, he was the mayor, but that's, to me, that's the, 1009 00:48:59,833 --> 00:49:01,566 the stain on the record. 1010 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,966 GATES: Like Michael Douglas, Lena had now seen the best and 1011 00:49:06,966 --> 00:49:11,666 worst of humanity interwoven within the branches of 1012 00:49:11,666 --> 00:49:14,633 her own family tree... 1013 00:49:15,233 --> 00:49:18,733 Surveying it all, she struggled to balance the 1014 00:49:18,733 --> 00:49:21,333 good with the bad. 1015 00:49:22,766 --> 00:49:25,566 DUNHAM: It's an overwhelming mix of emotions. 1016 00:49:25,566 --> 00:49:28,800 You get the joy of discovering relatives 1017 00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:30,766 that you didn't know existed, 1018 00:49:30,766 --> 00:49:33,900 of remembering things about the relatives that you did, 1019 00:49:33,900 --> 00:49:37,833 the pain of finding out things that happened to them 1020 00:49:37,833 --> 00:49:41,500 that were, you know, parts of very dark parts of history, 1021 00:49:41,500 --> 00:49:45,833 and the reckoning with the things that they may have done 1022 00:49:45,833 --> 00:49:48,100 that were parts of dark parts of history. 1023 00:49:48,100 --> 00:49:51,466 And to have all of that intersecting and interweaving, 1024 00:49:51,466 --> 00:49:55,633 I guess, is really a part of the complexity of being a 1025 00:49:55,633 --> 00:49:57,566 modern American. 1026 00:49:58,700 --> 00:50:00,933 GATES: The paper trail had now run out 1027 00:50:00,933 --> 00:50:02,666 for Lena and Michael. 1028 00:50:02,666 --> 00:50:05,233 It was time to see what DNA could tell us about 1029 00:50:05,233 --> 00:50:07,266 their deeper roots. 1030 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,900 For each, we had a surprise... 1031 00:50:11,233 --> 00:50:15,400 When we compared their DNA to that of other guests who have 1032 00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,800 been in the series, we found matches, 1033 00:50:19,366 --> 00:50:21,866 evidence within their own chromosomes 1034 00:50:21,866 --> 00:50:26,033 of distant cousins that they never knew they had. 1035 00:50:28,066 --> 00:50:30,000 DOUGLAS: Ah, are you kidding? 1036 00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,700 GATES: Your DNA cousin is the actor, Scarlett Johansson. 1037 00:50:32,700 --> 00:50:33,966 DOUGLAS: Oh, that's amazing. 1038 00:50:33,966 --> 00:50:37,133 All right. This is cool. This is so cool. 1039 00:50:37,133 --> 00:50:40,133 GATES: Michael and Scarlett share identical stretches of 1040 00:50:40,133 --> 00:50:44,900 DNA on four different chromosomes, all of which 1041 00:50:44,900 --> 00:50:49,133 appear on Scarlett's maternal lines, which stretch back to 1042 00:50:49,133 --> 00:50:52,300 Jewish communities in Eastern Europe. 1043 00:50:54,133 --> 00:50:55,833 DOUGLAS: That's incredible. 1044 00:50:55,833 --> 00:50:59,333 Well, I look forward to seeing Scarlett next time. 1045 00:50:59,333 --> 00:51:00,833 GATES: Yeah! 1046 00:51:01,866 --> 00:51:03,366 Like Michael, 1047 00:51:03,366 --> 00:51:07,866 Lena's cousin flows out of her Jewish heritage as well, 1048 00:51:07,866 --> 00:51:11,700 tying her to someone for whom she, and her family, 1049 00:51:11,700 --> 00:51:14,766 have had a longstanding affection. 1050 00:51:15,933 --> 00:51:17,433 GATES: Please turn the page. 1051 00:51:17,433 --> 00:51:19,600 DUNHAM: No! 1052 00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:22,066 My husband's gonna freak out. 1053 00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:24,933 It's Larry David, the other LD. 1054 00:51:24,933 --> 00:51:27,300 GATES: Your, your DNA cousin is Larry David. 1055 00:51:27,300 --> 00:51:28,300 Larry shares... 1056 00:51:28,300 --> 00:51:30,200 DUNHAM: This is the hottest information 1057 00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,200 I could have ever gotten. 1058 00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,066 GATES: Larry shares multiple long, identical segments of 1059 00:51:35,066 --> 00:51:36,866 DNA with you and your mother. 1060 00:51:36,866 --> 00:51:38,166 DUNHAM: No way. 1061 00:51:38,166 --> 00:51:40,966 GATES: This means that you share at least one common ancestor 1062 00:51:40,966 --> 00:51:44,033 somewhere on your mother's side of your family tree. 1063 00:51:44,033 --> 00:51:46,300 DUNHAM: This is... 1064 00:51:46,566 --> 00:51:49,466 I could not have turned the page and been more delighted! 1065 00:51:49,466 --> 00:51:51,300 This is incredible. 1066 00:51:51,300 --> 00:51:53,233 You saved the best for last. 1067 00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,300 GATES: That's the end of our journey with 1068 00:51:56,300 --> 00:51:59,000 Lena Dunham and Michael Douglas. 1069 00:51:59,966 --> 00:52:01,900 Join me next time when we 1070 00:52:01,900 --> 00:52:05,700 unlock the secrets of the past for new guests 1071 00:52:05,700 --> 00:52:08,100 on another episode of 1072 00:52:08,100 --> 00:52:10,266 "Finding Your Roots".