1
00:00:07,173 --> 00:00:09,342
WOMAN: You're ready, right?
Okay, very good.
2
00:00:10,443 --> 00:00:12,846
Tell me who you are. Tell me
a little bit about yourself.
3
00:00:12,846 --> 00:00:15,115
My name is Kelly Siegler.
4
00:00:15,115 --> 00:00:19,019
I started as a prosecutor
when I was 23 years old.
5
00:00:20,854 --> 00:00:23,923
I know, having done a job
as a prosecutor
6
00:00:23,923 --> 00:00:27,961
and getting those phone calls
from officers all over Texas
7
00:00:27,961 --> 00:00:31,931
wanting help on their old cases,
how many there are out there,
8
00:00:31,931 --> 00:00:34,734
they're just waiting
to be worked on.
9
00:00:34,734 --> 00:00:37,737
And I think
that if we can do that
10
00:00:37,737 --> 00:00:41,941
and give them that assistance
and expertise and time,
11
00:00:41,941 --> 00:00:45,712
there's a lot of good
and help we can do.
12
00:00:45,712 --> 00:00:51,084
[men vocalizing]
13
00:00:51,084 --> 00:00:53,086
WOMAN: * Once upon a time *
14
00:00:53,086 --> 00:00:55,755
* When the sun
still used to shine *
15
00:00:55,755 --> 00:01:00,560
* I was young and innocent
and I was green *
16
00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,662
* Yeah *
17
00:01:02,662 --> 00:01:04,964
* But now the skies
are dark and gray *
18
00:01:04,964 --> 00:01:06,666
I brought you
all the way to Texas
19
00:01:06,666 --> 00:01:10,337
to look at the 1992 murder case
of Natasha Atchley,
20
00:01:10,337 --> 00:01:13,840
probably the biggest unsolved
case in this part of Texas.
21
00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:15,608
There have been
more theories here
22
00:01:15,608 --> 00:01:18,511
than I can remember on any case
I've worked in a long time.
23
00:01:18,511 --> 00:01:21,081
I've always wanted
to work this case.
24
00:01:21,081 --> 00:01:24,184
I'm very stressed,
and I'm glad you're here.
25
00:01:24,184 --> 00:01:27,153
Ever since I first had the idea
for this TV show,
26
00:01:27,153 --> 00:01:30,090
I've always wanted
to work one case--
27
00:01:30,090 --> 00:01:33,293
the 30-year-old brutal murder
of Natasha Atchley.
28
00:01:33,293 --> 00:01:35,462
It got all kinds
of national attention,
29
00:01:35,462 --> 00:01:38,164
and that was because
of the books and the podcast
30
00:01:38,164 --> 00:01:39,699
and the national newspapers.
31
00:01:39,699 --> 00:01:41,968
WOMAN: I think
this case is crazy.
32
00:01:41,968 --> 00:01:45,505
Her body was found dead
inside her own trunk.
33
00:01:45,505 --> 00:01:47,340
The scene was so gruesome,
34
00:01:47,340 --> 00:01:50,276
Natasha's remains had been
burned down to just her bones.
35
00:01:50,276 --> 00:01:52,779
SIEGLER: Natasha's working
at the Dairy Queen
36
00:01:52,779 --> 00:01:54,781
and just got her
a new apartment,
37
00:01:54,781 --> 00:01:56,716
about to start going to college.
38
00:01:56,716 --> 00:01:58,818
She was a popular girl.
Everybody liked her.
39
00:01:58,818 --> 00:02:00,787
Natasha was fun-loving,
40
00:02:00,787 --> 00:02:03,056
and she was always
the life of the party.
41
00:02:03,056 --> 00:02:05,291
She had just gotten accepted
to college,
42
00:02:05,291 --> 00:02:07,660
which would have started
that next chapter of her life
43
00:02:07,660 --> 00:02:09,662
when it was
tragically cut short.
44
00:02:09,662 --> 00:02:13,800
The night she ends up being
last seen, there's a party.
45
00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,136
And everybody knew she could
get kind of wild at times.
46
00:02:16,136 --> 00:02:18,204
Alcohol. Maybe the use of LSD.
47
00:02:18,204 --> 00:02:20,340
It certainly doesn't qualify
48
00:02:20,340 --> 00:02:22,842
for somebody to wind up there
at the end of the evening.
49
00:02:22,842 --> 00:02:25,178
- Yeah.
- It's just a bad way to go.
50
00:02:25,178 --> 00:02:29,215
SIEGLER: On May 3, 1992,
Natasha attended this party
51
00:02:29,215 --> 00:02:32,385
where there was a lot
of drug use and alcohol use.
52
00:02:32,385 --> 00:02:36,156
And at some point that night,
she just sped off intoxicated.
53
00:02:36,156 --> 00:02:39,092
And the very next day,
her body was found
54
00:02:39,092 --> 00:02:41,761
in the rear
of her smoldering car,
55
00:02:41,761 --> 00:02:43,496
burned beyond recognition.
56
00:02:43,496 --> 00:02:45,432
Rumors quickly spread
57
00:02:45,432 --> 00:02:47,901
that someone from the party
had killed her
58
00:02:47,901 --> 00:02:50,770
and then set her car on fire
to cover their tracks.
59
00:02:50,770 --> 00:02:52,105
The body burned up.
60
00:02:52,105 --> 00:02:53,440
We really don't have
a cause of death.
61
00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:55,709
Even the skull
has got heat fractures
62
00:02:55,709 --> 00:02:57,444
where that skull
basically fragmented
63
00:02:57,444 --> 00:02:59,245
and exploded
in the back of that car.
64
00:02:59,245 --> 00:03:01,114
So heat fractures
or normal fractures
65
00:03:01,114 --> 00:03:02,382
are gonna be hard to save.
66
00:03:02,382 --> 00:03:03,883
It is.
67
00:03:03,883 --> 00:03:05,552
Nothing destroys evidence
quite like a fire.
68
00:03:05,552 --> 00:03:07,454
And that unknown
has created a mystery
69
00:03:07,454 --> 00:03:08,788
around Natasha's murder.
70
00:03:08,788 --> 00:03:11,291
For over 30 years,
in a small town,
71
00:03:11,291 --> 00:03:14,527
the rumor mill has gone wild
with speculation and theories.
72
00:03:14,527 --> 00:03:16,863
For the last 30 years,
73
00:03:16,863 --> 00:03:20,900
the Texas Rangers
were driving the investigation,
74
00:03:20,900 --> 00:03:22,635
and now we have
a brand-new sheriff
75
00:03:22,635 --> 00:03:24,571
and a brand-new elected DA.
76
00:03:24,571 --> 00:03:26,773
This is the first time ever
77
00:03:26,773 --> 00:03:29,309
on the biggest case
in this part of Texas
78
00:03:29,309 --> 00:03:32,979
they have allowed anybody
to read their whole file.
79
00:03:32,979 --> 00:03:35,081
We gotta get somewhere, Steve,
make something happen.
80
00:03:35,081 --> 00:03:36,449
SPINGOLA: Hope so.
81
00:03:39,886 --> 00:03:41,287
- Steve.
- Charles Dougherty.
82
00:03:41,287 --> 00:03:42,622
Nice to meet you, Charles.
83
00:03:42,622 --> 00:03:43,957
- Martin Montalvo.
- Nice to meet you, sir.
84
00:03:43,957 --> 00:03:45,425
- Greg Capers.
- Sheriff, I like your hat.
85
00:03:45,425 --> 00:03:46,993
- Yes, sir. Thank you.
- Man, it's good to see you.
86
00:03:46,993 --> 00:03:49,129
- Yes, ma'am. My pleasure.
- Y'all ready to get to work?
87
00:03:49,129 --> 00:03:50,663
- Ready.
- Yes, ma'am.
88
00:03:50,663 --> 00:03:53,500
When I wanted to work this case
all these years,
89
00:03:53,500 --> 00:03:56,603
this is the picture
that I see in my head.
90
00:03:56,603 --> 00:03:59,139
The whole county's
still affected
91
00:03:59,139 --> 00:04:00,807
by the murder
of Natasha Atchley.
92
00:04:00,807 --> 00:04:02,509
SIEGLER: What's your
favorite one, Martin?
93
00:04:02,509 --> 00:04:04,611
Is that her little?
That's kind of cute.
94
00:04:04,611 --> 00:04:06,746
DOUGHERTY:
For the last 30 years,
95
00:04:06,746 --> 00:04:08,615
multiple
law enforcement agencies
96
00:04:08,615 --> 00:04:10,684
as well as the Texas Rangers
got involved
97
00:04:10,684 --> 00:04:13,286
and opened up
a pretty intense investigation.
98
00:04:13,286 --> 00:04:17,857
This is a very confusing case,
but I'm looking forward
99
00:04:17,857 --> 00:04:20,660
to reopening this investigation
with a fresh set of eyes.
100
00:04:20,660 --> 00:04:24,664
Natasha was 19
when this happened.
101
00:04:24,664 --> 00:04:27,300
- She was popular.
- SIEGLER: Had a lot of friends.
102
00:04:27,300 --> 00:04:30,437
Everybody that talks about her
describes her as fun,
103
00:04:30,437 --> 00:04:33,506
the life of the party,
ready to go, vivacious,
104
00:04:33,506 --> 00:04:35,208
feisty and spunky.
105
00:04:35,208 --> 00:04:38,845
DOUGHERTY: A young lady with her
whole life ahead of her.
106
00:04:38,845 --> 00:04:41,114
Can you start
with the front of the story?
107
00:04:41,114 --> 00:04:44,150
On May the 3rd of 1992,
108
00:04:44,150 --> 00:04:46,386
a deputy with the San Jacinto
County Sheriff's office
109
00:04:46,386 --> 00:04:49,489
was originally dispatched
to a car fire smoldering
110
00:04:49,489 --> 00:04:51,791
in this rural area in the woods.
111
00:04:51,791 --> 00:04:53,226
He assumed at the time
112
00:04:53,226 --> 00:04:55,228
that maybe it was just
an insurance job
113
00:04:55,228 --> 00:04:56,696
or a stolen vehicle.
114
00:04:56,696 --> 00:04:59,666
You know, that's not uncommon
in this area.
115
00:04:59,666 --> 00:05:01,901
The vehicle was towed
to a tow yard.
116
00:05:01,901 --> 00:05:03,636
They discovered
that the license plate
117
00:05:03,636 --> 00:05:06,373
was from Natasha's car.
118
00:05:06,373 --> 00:05:08,208
It was Mother's Day weekend,
119
00:05:08,208 --> 00:05:09,576
and Natasha
didn't show up Sunday
120
00:05:09,576 --> 00:05:12,245
to her mother's residence.
121
00:05:12,245 --> 00:05:14,881
At that point,
Natasha's mother was notified
122
00:05:14,881 --> 00:05:17,650
that the vehicle
was at the tow yard.
123
00:05:17,650 --> 00:05:20,220
So Natasha's mother
goes to the tow yard,
124
00:05:20,220 --> 00:05:22,255
goes looking in the vehicle,
125
00:05:22,255 --> 00:05:24,357
gets to the trunk
of the vehicle,
126
00:05:24,357 --> 00:05:29,229
and recognizes what she believes
is a skull and some other bones.
127
00:05:29,229 --> 00:05:31,064
After forensic testing
comes back,
128
00:05:31,064 --> 00:05:35,201
they, in fact, identified
to be the body of Natasha.
129
00:05:35,201 --> 00:05:38,104
A private lab was able to
identify traces of an accelerant
130
00:05:38,104 --> 00:05:39,572
in Natasha's car,
131
00:05:39,572 --> 00:05:41,274
which they believe
to be drip gas,
132
00:05:41,274 --> 00:05:43,943
an unrefined byproduct
of fuel drilling.
133
00:05:43,943 --> 00:05:46,212
However, the rest of
the crime scene was disturbed
134
00:05:46,212 --> 00:05:48,248
after they towed her car
prematurely.
135
00:05:48,248 --> 00:05:50,083
This has been a major obstacle
136
00:05:50,083 --> 00:05:53,086
in trying to figure out
how this murder unfolded.
137
00:05:53,086 --> 00:05:55,789
DOUGHERTY: We learned that
Natasha had attended a party
138
00:05:55,789 --> 00:05:59,259
on May the 2nd about a mile from
where the vehicle was found.
139
00:05:59,259 --> 00:06:01,861
And after talking
to multiple partygoers,
140
00:06:01,861 --> 00:06:05,298
it was determined that there
was narcotics being used,
141
00:06:05,298 --> 00:06:09,903
namely LSD, marijuana,
as well as drinking beer,
142
00:06:09,903 --> 00:06:11,905
huffing, and things
of that nature.
143
00:06:11,905 --> 00:06:13,606
Some point there in the party,
144
00:06:13,606 --> 00:06:15,709
there was some sort
of altercation
145
00:06:15,709 --> 00:06:17,644
and Natasha gets mad.
146
00:06:17,644 --> 00:06:20,747
She leaves the party
with no explanation.
147
00:06:20,747 --> 00:06:24,384
She drove off recklessly on
or around 3 a.m. that morning.
148
00:06:24,384 --> 00:06:27,053
Nobody seen her after the time
she left the party.
149
00:06:27,053 --> 00:06:29,823
I had no idea when I started
reading this case
150
00:06:29,823 --> 00:06:33,960
how many crazy rumors
there were out there
151
00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:35,795
and gossip and speculation.
152
00:06:35,795 --> 00:06:37,464
Start looking
through your notes.
153
00:06:37,464 --> 00:06:40,500
They don't need to be any order,
any rhyme or reason.
154
00:06:40,500 --> 00:06:42,135
Let's just
knock 'em all out, okay?
155
00:06:42,135 --> 00:06:43,636
One of the rumors
that's going around
156
00:06:43,636 --> 00:06:45,905
is she's pregnant, he's married.
157
00:06:45,905 --> 00:06:47,640
We gotta figure out
if he was even at the party.
158
00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,075
SPINGOLA: Right.
159
00:06:49,075 --> 00:06:50,176
We heard about
an angry baby daddy.
160
00:06:50,176 --> 00:06:52,078
And what about his parents
161
00:06:52,078 --> 00:06:53,446
interfered
with the investigation.
162
00:06:53,446 --> 00:06:55,148
We had a judge's son.
163
00:06:55,148 --> 00:06:57,684
Elected officials
rumored to be at the party.
164
00:06:57,684 --> 00:07:00,453
So we got a cop interfering
with your investigation.
165
00:07:00,453 --> 00:07:02,655
Allegedly corrupt lawmen.
166
00:07:02,655 --> 00:07:04,791
And even an organized crime hit.
167
00:07:04,791 --> 00:07:05,825
That's a lot of rumors.
168
00:07:05,825 --> 00:07:07,360
That's more than I've ever seen.
169
00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,663
While it's been great fodder
for podcasts and books...
170
00:07:10,663 --> 00:07:12,799
Have y'all read this?
So all these stickies,
171
00:07:12,799 --> 00:07:14,267
these are even more rumors.
172
00:07:14,267 --> 00:07:16,870
...the strongest rumors
that keep popping up
173
00:07:16,870 --> 00:07:19,139
revolve around the people
that were at the party.
174
00:07:19,139 --> 00:07:21,808
So at the party that night--
Jim Morton.
175
00:07:21,808 --> 00:07:23,543
He was 19 at the time.
176
00:07:23,543 --> 00:07:26,680
- And Cindy Henning.
- She had just turned 17.
177
00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,049
Somebody said
that when Natasha got there,
178
00:07:29,049 --> 00:07:32,152
she thought Morton
was gonna hook up with her.
179
00:07:32,152 --> 00:07:34,554
But then Morton says, "No,
I'm going to bed with Cindy."
180
00:07:34,554 --> 00:07:37,057
SIEGLER: Jim Morton
and Cindy Henning were arrested
181
00:07:37,057 --> 00:07:38,892
because a witness came forward,
182
00:07:38,892 --> 00:07:41,127
claiming that they
assaulted Natasha
183
00:07:41,127 --> 00:07:43,063
after Natasha left the party.
184
00:07:43,063 --> 00:07:46,332
However,
that witness later recanted.
185
00:07:46,332 --> 00:07:49,469
So Jim and Cindy
were then released.
186
00:07:49,469 --> 00:07:53,073
But is there a seed of truth
to their involvement?
187
00:07:53,073 --> 00:07:55,975
The story is Cindy is getting
her ass kicked by Natasha
188
00:07:55,975 --> 00:07:57,711
at this fight.
189
00:07:57,711 --> 00:07:59,846
So Morton steps in
and finishes the fight.
190
00:07:59,846 --> 00:08:02,048
SIEGLER: Morton's kicking her
in the head. That's a big rumor.
191
00:08:02,048 --> 00:08:04,250
So if there's a motive
that night
192
00:08:04,250 --> 00:08:06,686
for Jim Morton
to want Natasha dead,
193
00:08:06,686 --> 00:08:08,888
it's gotta be revolving
around Cindy.
194
00:08:08,888 --> 00:08:10,023
SPINGOLA: Yeah.
195
00:08:10,023 --> 00:08:11,424
She used to live with Natasha,
196
00:08:11,424 --> 00:08:13,426
and it wasn't
a happy roommate relationship.
197
00:08:13,426 --> 00:08:15,695
Who's another witness
against Jim Morton?
198
00:08:15,695 --> 00:08:19,933
A guy who was in jail says
that Morton confesses to him
199
00:08:19,933 --> 00:08:21,901
that he's the one
who killed Natasha.
200
00:08:21,901 --> 00:08:24,070
- Okay. We got him on our list?
- Yeah.
201
00:08:24,070 --> 00:08:27,440
SIEGLER: Okay. Next.
17-year-old Kevin Malone.
202
00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,209
SPINGOLA: Kevin Malone,
'cause he's with him.
203
00:08:29,209 --> 00:08:33,246
Any issues between Natasha
and Kevin at the party?
204
00:08:33,246 --> 00:08:35,215
- He's supplying the LSD?
- Right.
205
00:08:35,215 --> 00:08:37,684
MONTALVO: He's the one that says
she took three hits of LSD.
206
00:08:37,684 --> 00:08:41,054
SPINGOLA: Jim and Cindy
and Kevin leave the party
207
00:08:41,054 --> 00:08:43,790
shortly after Natasha leaves.
208
00:08:43,790 --> 00:08:46,860
The only people that leave
the party are these three.
209
00:08:46,860 --> 00:08:48,528
That's the thing. Did they
catch up to her and kill her?
210
00:08:48,528 --> 00:08:50,196
Yeah.
211
00:08:50,196 --> 00:08:52,098
There's no evidence Kevin
had any issues with Natasha.
212
00:08:52,098 --> 00:08:54,267
But leaving
with Jim and Cindy that night
213
00:08:54,267 --> 00:08:56,536
leaves him in the middle
of this investigation.
214
00:08:56,536 --> 00:08:59,205
If there was an altercation
between them and Natasha,
215
00:08:59,205 --> 00:09:01,808
the heavy use of drugs
and alcohol at the party
216
00:09:01,808 --> 00:09:03,143
could've played a role
217
00:09:03,143 --> 00:09:04,544
in escalating that tension
into murder.
218
00:09:04,544 --> 00:09:06,880
Now, who else in our party
will need to go up here?
219
00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,449
- Chad.
- Chad McGregor.
220
00:09:09,449 --> 00:09:12,385
I made Chad in my head
our best suspect
221
00:09:12,385 --> 00:09:16,022
because a witness said she
saw him hiding down in the car
222
00:09:16,022 --> 00:09:17,824
when Natasha drove off.
223
00:09:17,824 --> 00:09:19,392
Why else would
we have Chad up there?
224
00:09:19,392 --> 00:09:21,628
Back in town before the party,
225
00:09:21,628 --> 00:09:24,431
she had been talking
to Chad's baby mama and ex
226
00:09:24,431 --> 00:09:26,266
who was bad-mouthing Chad.
227
00:09:26,266 --> 00:09:27,634
So when she pulls up
to the party,
228
00:09:27,634 --> 00:09:29,135
she comes out swinging at Chad.
229
00:09:29,135 --> 00:09:30,637
Just came up and punched him
and kicked him.
230
00:09:30,637 --> 00:09:32,839
SIEGLER: "Why are you being
so [bleep] to my friend?"
231
00:09:32,839 --> 00:09:35,809
The most logical explanation
is that the killer or killers
232
00:09:35,809 --> 00:09:37,110
were at the party.
233
00:09:37,110 --> 00:09:39,346
But what's rumor
and what's fact?
234
00:09:39,346 --> 00:09:42,849
We'll need to first sort
through all the speculation
235
00:09:42,849 --> 00:09:45,452
to figure out
if we have enough evidence
236
00:09:45,452 --> 00:09:47,687
to build a circumstantial case
237
00:09:47,687 --> 00:09:50,290
against whoever is responsible
for Natasha's murder.
238
00:09:56,830 --> 00:10:00,133
WOMAN: * Somebody said *
239
00:10:00,133 --> 00:10:03,036
* It's all in your head *
240
00:10:03,036 --> 00:10:06,039
* There's no one to save you *
241
00:10:06,039 --> 00:10:08,975
A lot of the people in Natasha's
family have passed away.
242
00:10:08,975 --> 00:10:13,179
Her mom is gone. Her dad's gone.
Her grandparents are gone.
243
00:10:13,179 --> 00:10:14,948
So who are we gonna
go meet with today?
244
00:10:14,948 --> 00:10:16,783
Chad and Natasha's half-brother.
245
00:10:16,783 --> 00:10:18,618
I think he'll like it
that after 30 years,
246
00:10:18,618 --> 00:10:20,153
y'all are still working
so hard on it.
247
00:10:20,153 --> 00:10:21,488
It'll let him know
how motivate you are.
248
00:10:21,488 --> 00:10:24,057
That'll make him focus, too.
249
00:10:24,057 --> 00:10:26,626
For the last nine years
of her life,
250
00:10:26,626 --> 00:10:29,529
Natasha's mother fought
for her daughter's justice.
251
00:10:29,529 --> 00:10:32,399
- You must be Chad. I'm Kelly.
- Nice to meet you.
252
00:10:32,399 --> 00:10:34,467
- Charles Dougherty.
- Nice to meet you.
253
00:10:34,467 --> 00:10:37,070
Hopefully we can bring
Natasha's little brother
254
00:10:37,070 --> 00:10:40,373
the answers this family has
desperately been waiting for.
255
00:10:40,373 --> 00:10:42,876
I guess a good starting point
would be,
256
00:10:42,876 --> 00:10:45,145
what can you tell me
about Natasha?
257
00:10:45,145 --> 00:10:49,582
She was a typical teenager
in a small country town.
258
00:10:49,582 --> 00:10:51,918
Very fun-loving.
259
00:10:51,918 --> 00:10:54,487
Loved going full speed.
Loved to party.
260
00:10:54,487 --> 00:10:57,090
'Cause she was wild.
There is no denying that.
261
00:10:57,090 --> 00:10:59,159
Of course
being eight-years difference
262
00:10:59,159 --> 00:11:01,594
I didn't get to spend
a lot of that time with her.
263
00:11:01,594 --> 00:11:03,897
'Cause who wants her
little brother tagging along?
264
00:11:03,897 --> 00:11:06,232
When she did involve me,
it was fun.
265
00:11:06,232 --> 00:11:08,401
I don't recall us
ever really fighting.
266
00:11:08,401 --> 00:11:11,404
Natasha was always fun,
supportive.
267
00:11:11,404 --> 00:11:14,107
Liked to push you
past your limits.
268
00:11:14,107 --> 00:11:16,776
So that was the main sparkle
about her--
269
00:11:16,776 --> 00:11:19,546
that no fear,
that love for life.
270
00:11:19,546 --> 00:11:21,748
So, do you remember the day
271
00:11:21,748 --> 00:11:24,517
that y'all found out
what happened?
272
00:11:24,517 --> 00:11:27,120
Yeah. Mom was kind
of in hysterics that day.
273
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:28,888
I think she found out
about the car missing.
274
00:11:28,888 --> 00:11:30,590
Why was her car burned?
275
00:11:30,590 --> 00:11:32,625
Why was she not
at her house that morning?
276
00:11:32,625 --> 00:11:34,794
That's when she went
with my aunt
277
00:11:34,794 --> 00:11:37,430
to the wrecker yard.
278
00:11:37,430 --> 00:11:39,632
She was searching the car,
279
00:11:39,632 --> 00:11:42,369
and she saw her jewelry
on the front,
280
00:11:42,369 --> 00:11:43,703
and then she went back
to the back of the car.
281
00:11:43,703 --> 00:11:45,472
She first saw a bone.
282
00:11:45,472 --> 00:11:48,108
She thought some kind of animal
was in the back of the car
283
00:11:48,108 --> 00:11:50,276
until she looked up
and saw the skull,
284
00:11:50,276 --> 00:11:53,313
realizing that
that's my daughter's skull.
285
00:11:53,313 --> 00:11:56,149
She's pretty much in hysterics
at that point.
286
00:11:56,149 --> 00:11:57,584
Yeah.
287
00:11:57,584 --> 00:12:00,053
As a mother,
I can't even imagine
288
00:12:00,053 --> 00:12:02,222
the horror
that Natasha's mother felt
289
00:12:02,222 --> 00:12:05,625
when she looked into that car
and saw her baby's skull.
290
00:12:05,625 --> 00:12:07,394
And then never getting to know
291
00:12:07,394 --> 00:12:09,496
who's responsible
for doing that
292
00:12:09,496 --> 00:12:12,265
had to have magnified that pain
by a thousand times.
293
00:12:12,265 --> 00:12:14,100
And it just--it just broke her.
294
00:12:14,100 --> 00:12:16,069
From that moment on,
she changed.
295
00:12:16,069 --> 00:12:18,405
We were taken care of,
but at the same time,
296
00:12:18,405 --> 00:12:20,340
she kind of wasn't there.
297
00:12:20,340 --> 00:12:21,808
You could see her mind
298
00:12:21,808 --> 00:12:24,344
was always concentrating
on Natasha
299
00:12:24,344 --> 00:12:27,781
and the why, what happened.
300
00:12:27,781 --> 00:12:29,816
So, you didn't just lose
your sister.
301
00:12:29,816 --> 00:12:31,351
You kind of lost your mom, too.
302
00:12:31,351 --> 00:12:34,187
Yeah. It definitely
shook the family up.
303
00:12:34,187 --> 00:12:38,258
I bet. This is an article
praying for the truth
304
00:12:38,258 --> 00:12:40,360
written by your mom.
305
00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,662
"Is there a rainbow
after the rain?"
306
00:12:42,662 --> 00:12:45,665
[Siegler continues reading]
307
00:12:52,939 --> 00:12:54,140
What do you remember
about why your mom
308
00:12:54,140 --> 00:12:55,375
would write articles like this?
309
00:12:55,375 --> 00:12:57,510
To not let the case die.
310
00:12:57,510 --> 00:13:00,680
That, I think, was
an emotional release for her.
311
00:13:00,680 --> 00:13:02,816
Lieutenant Dougherty
and I and our partners
312
00:13:02,816 --> 00:13:05,185
are gonna try and get to
the bottom of everything we can.
313
00:13:05,185 --> 00:13:07,354
I'm just thankful that y'all
are even taking the time.
314
00:13:07,354 --> 00:13:09,723
The amount of people
that remained
315
00:13:09,723 --> 00:13:13,960
pushing for her justice
truly is heartwarming,
316
00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:31,211
This is involving
the Natasha Atchley case.
317
00:13:31,745 --> 00:13:33,079
You know, 30 years later,
318
00:13:33,079 --> 00:13:34,714
we're looking
through these reports,
319
00:13:34,748 --> 00:13:37,951
and I'm contacting everybody
and anybody that was there.
320
00:13:37,984 --> 00:13:41,821
The last time 19-year-old
Natasha Atchley was seen alive,
321
00:13:41,855 --> 00:13:44,457
she was driving away recklessly
from a party.
322
00:13:44,491 --> 00:13:47,093
Refreshing to see that people
are looking into it again.
323
00:13:47,127 --> 00:13:49,429
- Steve.
- Nice to meet you.
324
00:13:49,462 --> 00:13:51,331
SIEGLER: It's always gonna be
a challenge
325
00:13:51,364 --> 00:13:54,100
when your most important
witnesses were kids back then,
326
00:13:54,134 --> 00:13:56,803
especially when they
were using alcohol and drugs.
327
00:13:56,836 --> 00:13:59,906
But if Natasha did have
an altercation at the party
328
00:13:59,939 --> 00:14:03,109
or if there's evidence
supporting any of these rumors,
329
00:14:06,279 --> 00:14:08,348
So, Natasha and I
were very close growing up.
330
00:14:08,348 --> 00:14:09,916
- Really?
- She was like a sister to me.
331
00:14:12,285 --> 00:14:13,453
DOUGHERTY: Right.
332
00:14:16,623 --> 00:14:17,624
Right.
333
00:14:19,859 --> 00:14:21,494
What kind of vibe
was at the party?
334
00:14:28,134 --> 00:14:31,338
Natasha, is she intoxicated
when she shows up?
335
00:14:31,338 --> 00:14:33,306
She was drinking what?
336
00:14:33,306 --> 00:14:35,075
Straight Crown Royal?
337
00:14:35,075 --> 00:14:37,877
And she showed me her bottle
of Crown she was drinking.
338
00:14:37,877 --> 00:14:39,913
Do you remember
how much was in the Crown?
339
00:14:39,913 --> 00:14:41,681
There wasn't a ton left
in the bottle.
340
00:14:41,681 --> 00:14:44,217
I know for a fact
that Natasha took acid,
341
00:14:44,217 --> 00:14:47,654
'cause I know that Kevin Malone
was out there and gave her some.
342
00:14:47,654 --> 00:14:51,091
But some of these gossip things
have gotten kind of outlandish.
343
00:14:51,091 --> 00:14:53,993
I was like--
And there was no type
344
00:14:53,993 --> 00:14:56,429
of authority figure there.
345
00:14:56,429 --> 00:14:59,899
And I feel like a politician
346
00:14:59,899 --> 00:15:01,868
would have really
stood out to me
347
00:15:01,868 --> 00:15:03,370
and made me feel uncomfortable.
348
00:15:03,370 --> 00:15:05,105
Did you ever hear that she
might have been pregnant?
349
00:15:05,105 --> 00:15:06,506
Did Natasha ever tell you
350
00:15:06,506 --> 00:15:07,774
she might have been pregnant
that night?
351
00:15:07,774 --> 00:15:09,109
MAN:
352
00:15:09,109 --> 00:15:10,877
Okay.
353
00:15:10,877 --> 00:15:12,879
Were there any problems
between Natasha
354
00:15:12,879 --> 00:15:14,881
and any other partygoers
that night,
355
00:15:14,881 --> 00:15:17,083
pushing, fighting,
that you can remember?
356
00:15:18,084 --> 00:15:21,588
Did you ever see any arguments
or any type of fights going on
357
00:15:21,588 --> 00:15:22,856
at the party?
358
00:15:24,224 --> 00:15:26,526
I do remember
that Chad McGregor
359
00:15:26,526 --> 00:15:30,630
unzipped her, like,
vest or something,
360
00:15:30,630 --> 00:15:33,600
and I think she slapped him
or something like that.
361
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,869
But that was more
like a joking kind of thing.
362
00:15:46,079 --> 00:15:47,080
Right.
363
00:15:48,448 --> 00:15:50,950
- More of a horseplay type?
- Yeah.
364
00:15:50,950 --> 00:15:52,218
MAN:
365
00:15:59,125 --> 00:16:02,028
You remember when she left,
was she upset?
366
00:16:02,028 --> 00:16:05,465
WOMAN: It sounded like she was
a little just frustrated.
367
00:16:05,465 --> 00:16:07,934
She kind left out of there
aggressively.
368
00:16:07,934 --> 00:16:10,670
WOMAN: She was hotheaded. She
was most certainly hotheaded.
369
00:16:10,670 --> 00:16:14,174
And if everyone was drinking
and doing drugs at that time,
370
00:16:14,174 --> 00:16:16,910
they could've hit her
and then freaked out.
371
00:16:16,910 --> 00:16:19,045
It's possible
that with the passage of time
372
00:16:19,045 --> 00:16:20,347
and the partying that night
373
00:16:20,347 --> 00:16:22,582
has left the witnesses
with foggy memories.
374
00:16:22,582 --> 00:16:24,918
Or maybe nothing happened
that actually stood out.
375
00:16:24,918 --> 00:16:27,687
Whatever the case, we don't have
any concrete evidence
376
00:16:27,687 --> 00:16:30,090
of foul play between
our suspects and Natasha.
377
00:16:30,090 --> 00:16:32,092
But connecting one of them
to the accelerant
378
00:16:32,092 --> 00:16:34,461
used in this fire
could be it.
379
00:16:34,461 --> 00:16:36,863
What did y'all know
about drip gas?
380
00:16:36,863 --> 00:16:38,698
MAN:
381
00:16:38,698 --> 00:16:40,967
Yeah. Yeah.
382
00:16:43,937 --> 00:16:45,939
Do you know what drip gas is?
383
00:16:45,939 --> 00:16:48,842
Anything at that party at all
where anybody's doing bonfires,
384
00:16:48,842 --> 00:16:51,378
using drip gas
or anything outside?
385
00:16:51,378 --> 00:16:52,812
Anything that you remember.
386
00:16:52,812 --> 00:16:54,381
I don't even remember
a fire outside.
387
00:16:54,381 --> 00:16:56,082
- Nothing outside?
- Yeah. No.
388
00:16:56,082 --> 00:16:57,283
I would assume
that you didn't know
389
00:16:57,283 --> 00:16:58,818
there was old tanks out there.
390
00:16:58,818 --> 00:17:01,388
- I have no idea.
- Or no knowledge of that?
391
00:17:01,388 --> 00:17:02,789
MAN:
392
00:17:08,695 --> 00:17:10,230
Can you turn that music down
393
00:17:10,230 --> 00:17:11,564
that's playing
in the background?
394
00:17:11,564 --> 00:17:12,665
I can barely hear you.
395
00:17:12,665 --> 00:17:14,034
MAN:
396
00:17:14,034 --> 00:17:15,335
Yeah, yeah. Thank you.
397
00:17:15,335 --> 00:17:17,237
We reached out to an inmate
398
00:17:17,237 --> 00:17:19,039
who was incarcerated
with Jim Morton
399
00:17:19,039 --> 00:17:21,041
shortly after the murder.
400
00:17:21,041 --> 00:17:23,209
He claims Jim actually admitted
to being involved.
401
00:17:23,209 --> 00:17:25,078
And now we wanna see
if there's any credibility
402
00:17:25,078 --> 00:17:27,047
to this alleged
jailhouse confession.
403
00:17:27,047 --> 00:17:29,315
DOUGHERTY: It says here
that you wanted to talk
404
00:17:29,315 --> 00:17:31,384
on an inmate named Morton,
405
00:17:31,384 --> 00:17:34,220
that you had some information
about this case.
406
00:17:34,220 --> 00:17:37,090
Can you kind of fill me in
on what it was
407
00:17:37,090 --> 00:17:39,059
that you were wanting
to talk law enforcement about
408
00:17:39,059 --> 00:17:40,727
at that time?
409
00:17:40,727 --> 00:17:42,128
MAN:
410
00:17:59,579 --> 00:18:00,714
Yeah.
411
00:18:05,051 --> 00:18:07,854
Anything else
that stuck out that...
412
00:18:19,366 --> 00:18:22,369
This witness has certainly
changed his tune 30 years later.
413
00:18:22,369 --> 00:18:25,372
This is a prime example of why
you always have to be skeptical
414
00:18:25,372 --> 00:18:27,207
of a jailhouse informant.
415
00:18:27,374 --> 00:18:41,755
That Texas flag right there
on that mailbox.
416
00:18:42,455 --> 00:18:44,157
- This is her?
- Yep. Right here.
417
00:18:44,157 --> 00:18:46,659
While we've cleared up
some of the rumors,
418
00:18:46,659 --> 00:18:48,795
we still haven't found
any evidence
419
00:18:48,795 --> 00:18:51,598
that directly points
to our party suspects.
420
00:18:51,598 --> 00:18:53,400
Can you come in the car,
Miss Birmingham,
421
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,068
so we can record it and we have
all of our notes in there?
422
00:18:55,068 --> 00:18:56,436
You can get in the front,
and I'll hop in the back.
423
00:18:56,436 --> 00:18:57,337
- Sure.
- Is that okay?
424
00:18:57,337 --> 00:18:58,905
That's fine.
425
00:18:58,905 --> 00:19:01,841
Dena Birmingham
attended the party that night
426
00:19:01,841 --> 00:19:05,078
and was a close friend
of our suspect Cindy.
427
00:19:05,078 --> 00:19:08,415
She may be able to shed
some light on what she saw
428
00:19:08,415 --> 00:19:10,850
or if Cindy had said
anything incriminating
429
00:19:10,850 --> 00:19:12,252
in the last 30 years.
430
00:19:12,252 --> 00:19:15,021
When Natasha
left the party that night,
431
00:19:15,021 --> 00:19:17,023
what made her leave?
432
00:19:17,023 --> 00:19:19,426
I don't know.
I mean, she sped off.
433
00:19:19,426 --> 00:19:22,262
I remember that clearly,
I mean, to this day.
434
00:19:22,262 --> 00:19:24,464
She sped off and that was it.
435
00:19:24,464 --> 00:19:28,802
But I don't remember why or--
I-I don't.
436
00:19:28,802 --> 00:19:31,104
Did you ever see her
actually get into it
437
00:19:31,104 --> 00:19:32,639
with anybody physically?
438
00:19:32,639 --> 00:19:34,040
- No.
- Did you ever see her
439
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:35,875
actually get into it
with anybody arguing?
440
00:19:35,875 --> 00:19:37,210
No.
441
00:19:37,210 --> 00:19:39,546
What do you remember
about the fact
442
00:19:39,546 --> 00:19:43,116
that Jim and Cindy and Kevin
left the party?
443
00:19:43,116 --> 00:19:44,718
DENA: So, they were
taking Kevin home.
444
00:19:44,718 --> 00:19:46,519
They asked me to go.
445
00:19:46,519 --> 00:19:48,188
I was like,
"No, I'm not going anywhere."
446
00:19:48,188 --> 00:19:50,323
So, they asked you to go
and said right then,
447
00:19:50,323 --> 00:19:51,658
"We're taking Kevin home"?
448
00:19:51,658 --> 00:19:53,226
- Right.
- That's important
449
00:19:53,226 --> 00:19:55,495
because that shows they weren't
going after Natasha
450
00:19:55,495 --> 00:19:57,063
'cause somebody was pissed off.
451
00:19:57,063 --> 00:19:59,699
Yeah. No.
None of 'em were mad. No.
452
00:19:59,699 --> 00:20:01,334
SIEGLER: Okay.
453
00:20:01,334 --> 00:20:05,171
And it was, I don't know,
really early in the morning
454
00:20:05,171 --> 00:20:07,640
whenever they took Kevin home.
455
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,076
How long after Natasha left
do you remember them leaving?
456
00:20:10,076 --> 00:20:12,345
- More than an hour.
- Okay.
457
00:20:12,345 --> 00:20:14,247
- Yeah.
- When Jim and Cindy came back,
458
00:20:14,247 --> 00:20:16,916
did you see anything unusual?
Did they act unusual,
459
00:20:16,916 --> 00:20:18,518
like they've been in the middle
of some kind of thing like that?
460
00:20:18,518 --> 00:20:19,386
- No.
- Nothing.
461
00:20:28,995 --> 00:20:32,232
The case against Cindy Henning
is looking more and more
462
00:20:32,232 --> 00:20:36,403
like it's based just on rumors
and hearsay rather than fact.
463
00:20:36,403 --> 00:20:38,271
Maybe it's time
we talked to Cindy.
464
00:20:38,271 --> 00:20:40,440
DOUGHERTY: I wanna see
if she's even gonna answer us.
465
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,008
I know.
466
00:20:42,008 --> 00:20:44,678
[line ringing]
467
00:20:48,181 --> 00:20:49,616
We gave Cindy a call,
468
00:20:49,616 --> 00:20:51,418
but she is not willing
to speak to us again.
469
00:20:52,919 --> 00:20:55,355
- I tried.
- You did a good job.
470
00:20:55,355 --> 00:20:58,124
However, she did respectfully
explain to us
471
00:20:58,124 --> 00:21:01,428
that she has said
all she wanted to say back then
472
00:21:01,428 --> 00:21:03,596
and she has nothing more
to add to that today.
473
00:21:03,596 --> 00:21:06,599
The most important thing
is that you asked her
474
00:21:06,599 --> 00:21:09,069
if everything that she said
back then was true,
475
00:21:09,069 --> 00:21:11,771
which is the same thing
you had asked her in person.
476
00:21:11,771 --> 00:21:14,441
And when you read
all the stuff out there,
477
00:21:14,441 --> 00:21:17,143
do you blame her for not wanting
to come down here?
478
00:21:17,143 --> 00:21:19,713
Her position is, "I'm done
talking to law enforcement."
479
00:21:19,713 --> 00:21:22,449
Is that because
she has something to hide?
480
00:21:22,449 --> 00:21:24,150
Is that because
she's frustrated
481
00:21:24,150 --> 00:21:26,720
after 30 years of rumors
pointing at her?
482
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:28,822
There's a lot of reasons
why she could be hesitant,
483
00:21:28,822 --> 00:21:30,490
but I'm kind of disappointed
484
00:21:30,490 --> 00:21:32,859
because she won't answer
our specific questions.
485
00:21:38,298 --> 00:21:40,467
- Hi. I'm Dr. Pinneri.
- Charles Dougherty.
486
00:21:40,467 --> 00:21:41,768
- Nice to meet you.
- Yes, ma'am.
487
00:21:41,768 --> 00:21:43,903
We know that an accelerant
was determined
488
00:21:43,903 --> 00:21:46,473
to be in the front
of Natasha's car
489
00:21:46,473 --> 00:21:48,908
while her remains
were scattered in the back.
490
00:21:48,908 --> 00:21:52,779
The fact that Natasha's car
was towed prematurely
491
00:21:52,779 --> 00:21:55,015
has posed problems
in determining
492
00:21:55,015 --> 00:21:58,418
whether her bones
somehow moved in transit.
493
00:21:58,418 --> 00:22:01,454
We're hoping that Dr. Pinneri
can provide some insight.
494
00:22:01,454 --> 00:22:03,590
The set of remains
are very incomplete,
495
00:22:03,590 --> 00:22:05,425
and they're completely
fragmented and charred.
496
00:22:05,425 --> 00:22:07,160
I've seen a lot of car fires.
497
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,830
This is cremated type of fire.
498
00:22:10,830 --> 00:22:15,135
So that is a testament
to how hot this fire is.
499
00:22:15,135 --> 00:22:17,137
Basically,
all we have are fragments,
500
00:22:17,137 --> 00:22:18,371
part of the skull,
501
00:22:18,371 --> 00:22:20,306
a bunch of fragments
of the face,
502
00:22:20,306 --> 00:22:22,676
fragments of long bones,
and this chunk area.
503
00:22:22,676 --> 00:22:24,277
The skull is here,
504
00:22:24,277 --> 00:22:27,313
but skulls are somewhat round
and they can roll.
505
00:22:27,313 --> 00:22:29,549
So where a skull is
doesn't tell you
506
00:22:29,549 --> 00:22:32,218
where the body
started necessarily.
507
00:22:32,218 --> 00:22:35,722
But what we have here
are a bunch of the vertebrae,
508
00:22:35,722 --> 00:22:37,457
the bones of the spine.
509
00:22:37,457 --> 00:22:39,859
Typically where you find
the most vertebrae,
510
00:22:39,859 --> 00:22:41,695
that's where the body was.
511
00:22:41,695 --> 00:22:43,396
You have the ribs
going next to them, too.
512
00:22:43,396 --> 00:22:45,165
You're not gonna get
this appearance
513
00:22:45,165 --> 00:22:47,167
if these bones
are being washed here.
514
00:22:47,167 --> 00:22:48,568
You're not gonna get
all the vertebrae
515
00:22:48,568 --> 00:22:50,670
to stay
in this little area here.
516
00:22:50,670 --> 00:22:52,739
They're gonna
be scattered around.
517
00:22:52,739 --> 00:22:54,341
She wasn't in one
of the passenger's seats
518
00:22:54,341 --> 00:22:56,009
or the driver's seat.
519
00:22:56,009 --> 00:22:58,311
She was in the back of the
vehicle when this fire happened.
520
00:22:58,311 --> 00:23:00,046
She's for sure
in the back of the car?
521
00:23:00,046 --> 00:23:01,881
She's in the hatchback area
of the car?
522
00:23:01,881 --> 00:23:03,683
It's not any movement
or shifting
523
00:23:03,683 --> 00:23:05,352
or shifting
with the tow truck driver?
524
00:23:05,352 --> 00:23:08,722
No. And we can't tell if she was
alive at the time of the fire,
525
00:23:08,722 --> 00:23:10,090
she had trauma.
526
00:23:10,090 --> 00:23:12,058
All of that's out the window
527
00:23:12,058 --> 00:23:13,893
because of the condition
of the remains.
528
00:23:13,893 --> 00:23:16,763
So the cause and means of death
are gonna be undetermined.
529
00:23:16,763 --> 00:23:18,565
SPINGOLA: According
to Dr. Pinneri,
530
00:23:18,565 --> 00:23:20,834
Natasha's body
was in the rear of her car
531
00:23:20,834 --> 00:23:23,069
while the fire actually started
in the front.
532
00:23:23,069 --> 00:23:24,571
You would think
that if the intent of the arson
533
00:23:24,571 --> 00:23:26,172
was to hide evidence
of the murder
534
00:23:26,172 --> 00:23:28,274
that the body itself
would have been lit.
535
00:23:28,274 --> 00:23:30,110
But that's not what happened
in this case.
536
00:23:30,110 --> 00:23:31,911
It kind of feels like
we're missing something here.
537
00:23:31,911 --> 00:23:34,581
So, we're saying
that our arsonist
538
00:23:34,581 --> 00:23:36,950
set the fire
on the passenger side
539
00:23:36,950 --> 00:23:40,086
and then shut the door
and her bones and remains
540
00:23:40,086 --> 00:23:41,855
are gonna end up
back at the hatchback.
541
00:23:41,855 --> 00:23:44,257
Right? What am I saying wrong?
542
00:23:44,257 --> 00:23:46,593
'Cause that's not making
any sense to me.
543
00:23:55,168 --> 00:24:02,575
[woman vocalizing]
544
00:24:03,309 --> 00:24:06,212
* Listen, we could be heroes *
545
00:24:10,650 --> 00:24:14,187
Well, this is definitely
one of the focal points
546
00:24:14,187 --> 00:24:16,056
of this whole...
547
00:24:16,056 --> 00:24:18,758
No kidding. Going out here
might be more important
548
00:24:18,758 --> 00:24:21,061
than any single witness
that we're talking to.
549
00:24:21,061 --> 00:24:23,129
We're headed to the dirt road
550
00:24:23,129 --> 00:24:25,265
where Natasha's car
was discovered
551
00:24:25,265 --> 00:24:27,067
to try and piece together
what we think happened.
552
00:24:30,537 --> 00:24:33,340
We brought in a Camaro
similar to Natasha's
553
00:24:33,340 --> 00:24:37,711
as well as a San Jacinto County
DA and an ADA and other experts
554
00:24:37,711 --> 00:24:40,380
to join us to help
with their areas of expertise.
555
00:24:40,380 --> 00:24:42,449
Okay, so, let's talk about
the road surface back then,
556
00:24:42,449 --> 00:24:43,950
30 years ago.
557
00:24:43,950 --> 00:24:47,087
This place was just
a rutted dirt trail,
558
00:24:47,087 --> 00:24:49,089
not very different from this.
559
00:24:49,089 --> 00:24:50,357
It had rained the night before.
560
00:24:50,357 --> 00:24:52,392
It rained the night
the car was found.
561
00:24:52,392 --> 00:24:54,461
- Okay.
- You see a bunch of sago palms
562
00:24:54,461 --> 00:24:56,229
and stuff like that in the side.
563
00:24:56,229 --> 00:24:58,131
That means there's a lot
of water retention here.
564
00:24:58,131 --> 00:25:01,801
The rear wheels
are stuck in some sort of mud,
565
00:25:01,801 --> 00:25:03,870
some sort of puddle.
566
00:25:03,870 --> 00:25:05,839
SIEGLER: Anybody wanna talk
about how deep
567
00:25:05,839 --> 00:25:07,474
we think this hole is.
568
00:25:07,474 --> 00:25:08,842
'Cause we're acknowledging
that some of this water
569
00:25:08,842 --> 00:25:10,510
could have come
from the firemen,
570
00:25:10,510 --> 00:25:13,380
and some of the rain could
have come after she was stuck.
571
00:25:13,380 --> 00:25:16,082
But still, the depth
of the hole--what do we think?
572
00:25:16,082 --> 00:25:17,650
In a rut, easily a foot.
573
00:25:17,650 --> 00:25:19,252
- That deep?
- Yeah.
574
00:25:19,252 --> 00:25:21,254
I thought y'all
were gonna say three inches.
575
00:25:21,254 --> 00:25:23,156
- Dang.
- That could have been it.
576
00:25:23,156 --> 00:25:25,558
What does "it" mean?
She can't get out of the hole?
577
00:25:25,558 --> 00:25:27,427
- She's stuck.
- She's stuck. Okay.
578
00:25:27,427 --> 00:25:29,429
One other thing
I wanted to take a look at, too,
579
00:25:29,429 --> 00:25:32,065
is look at the door sill.
580
00:25:32,065 --> 00:25:34,534
This is where the door
actually opens.
581
00:25:34,534 --> 00:25:37,070
So, how many of y'all have ever
driven this kind of car?
582
00:25:37,070 --> 00:25:38,672
I have, too.
583
00:25:38,672 --> 00:25:41,341
So y'all remember
when you would drive these cars
584
00:25:41,341 --> 00:25:43,677
and you would park
too close to a curb,
585
00:25:43,677 --> 00:25:45,712
you couldn't open the door
and get out. Right?
586
00:25:45,712 --> 00:25:48,415
It wouldn't open
because of this.
587
00:25:48,415 --> 00:25:50,350
Speaking of that,
she may have high-centered.
588
00:25:50,350 --> 00:25:51,785
High-centered being--
589
00:25:51,785 --> 00:25:54,087
Both wheels--All wheels
are off the ground.
590
00:25:54,087 --> 00:25:56,222
All wheels are off the ground.
591
00:25:56,222 --> 00:25:57,791
- On the ground.
- On the ground.
592
00:25:57,791 --> 00:26:00,126
This wheel's spinning,
which is the right rear wheel.
593
00:26:00,126 --> 00:26:02,295
Spinning. That's why it
looks deeper on this side.
594
00:26:02,295 --> 00:26:05,465
And this one's not moving
because it's high-centered.
595
00:26:05,465 --> 00:26:06,800
It just stays there.
596
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:08,535
And this one's
constantly spinning.
597
00:26:08,535 --> 00:26:10,603
- And it digs a hole.
- And it digs a hole.
598
00:26:10,603 --> 00:26:12,472
Basically, the drive wheels
599
00:26:12,472 --> 00:26:14,240
are no longer in contact
with the ground.
600
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,609
- So you're getting more stuck.
- Okay.
601
00:26:16,609 --> 00:26:18,378
When Natasha's car
became high-centered,
602
00:26:18,378 --> 00:26:20,947
a wall of mud
along the sides of the car
603
00:26:20,947 --> 00:26:22,482
likely blocked
the doors from opening,
604
00:26:22,482 --> 00:26:24,150
trapping her inside
605
00:26:24,150 --> 00:26:26,286
and not allowing anyone else
access to that vehicle.
606
00:26:26,286 --> 00:26:28,121
So, how would our killer
pull this off?
607
00:26:28,121 --> 00:26:30,256
One of the theories was
she got into a fight here,
608
00:26:30,256 --> 00:26:32,292
got her ass kicked.
609
00:26:32,292 --> 00:26:34,494
They threw her in a car
and set it on fire.
610
00:26:34,494 --> 00:26:36,162
If the car is high-centered,
611
00:26:36,162 --> 00:26:38,231
how are we gonna open the door
and take her this way?
612
00:26:38,231 --> 00:26:40,066
The cops show up here.
613
00:26:40,066 --> 00:26:43,236
They find no footprints anywhere
around the outside of the car.
614
00:26:43,236 --> 00:26:45,338
There's no indications
of cars going out of here.
615
00:26:45,338 --> 00:26:48,141
- One set of tracks.
- That comes and stops.
616
00:26:48,141 --> 00:26:50,610
There's no indication
she ever got of that car.
617
00:26:50,610 --> 00:26:52,912
The other thing is
if that's the theory
618
00:26:52,912 --> 00:26:55,081
and we think it's high-centered
and the doors won't open,
619
00:26:55,081 --> 00:26:57,117
how are those killers gonna open
the door to set the fire
620
00:26:57,117 --> 00:26:58,485
if the door won't open?
621
00:26:58,485 --> 00:26:59,919
SPINGOLA: They've got
in their report
622
00:26:59,919 --> 00:27:01,855
the windows were up
at the time of the fire.
623
00:27:01,855 --> 00:27:03,590
There's obvious problems
with the theory
624
00:27:03,590 --> 00:27:05,158
that Natasha was murdered.
625
00:27:05,158 --> 00:27:06,860
Number one,
the killer would have no way
626
00:27:06,860 --> 00:27:09,295
of opening the black doors,
attack Natasha
627
00:27:09,295 --> 00:27:11,131
and set fire to the front seat.
628
00:27:11,131 --> 00:27:13,533
And number two,
there's no tracks or footprints
629
00:27:13,533 --> 00:27:16,036
from another perpetrator
outside of Natasha's vehicle.
630
00:27:16,036 --> 00:27:17,804
So how could a killer
have followed her here
631
00:27:17,804 --> 00:27:20,273
or escaped after it was done?
632
00:27:20,273 --> 00:27:22,709
Okay, so, is it possible
633
00:27:22,709 --> 00:27:25,111
that Natasha's sitting
in the front seat of her car,
634
00:27:25,111 --> 00:27:27,614
trying, trying, trying to get it
to go 'cause she's stuck.
635
00:27:27,614 --> 00:27:29,449
Panicked and high,
whatever you wanna call it.
636
00:27:29,449 --> 00:27:31,551
Her doors won't open.
She can't get unstuck.
637
00:27:31,551 --> 00:27:33,687
And she climbs in the back
to get out this way.
638
00:27:33,687 --> 00:27:35,188
And then there's the fire.
Oh, my God.
639
00:27:35,188 --> 00:27:36,690
All of a sudden,
there's the fire.
640
00:27:36,690 --> 00:27:38,358
And it's too late.
And now she's stuck back here.
641
00:27:38,358 --> 00:27:40,627
And she can't get out.
Why can't that work?
642
00:27:40,627 --> 00:27:43,830
She's drunk on whiskey,
marijuana, LSD.
643
00:27:43,830 --> 00:27:46,466
She's hallucinating. She's
seeing things that aren't there.
644
00:27:46,466 --> 00:27:48,668
Trying to roll the window down.
It's not coming down.
645
00:27:48,668 --> 00:27:50,470
The vehicle's off.
It's electric.
646
00:27:50,470 --> 00:27:52,672
"Hey. I think--
Let me go through the trunk."
647
00:27:52,672 --> 00:27:53,873
And then by this time...
648
00:27:53,873 --> 00:27:55,241
- It's too late.
- It's too late.
649
00:27:55,241 --> 00:27:57,510
- Is there a release back here?
- No, sir.
650
00:27:57,510 --> 00:27:59,079
If you climbed in the back--
651
00:27:59,079 --> 00:28:00,246
There's no way
you can get out.
652
00:28:00,246 --> 00:28:01,514
You couldn't pull a release.
653
00:28:01,514 --> 00:28:03,316
You can't pull a release
on this vehicle.
654
00:28:03,316 --> 00:28:05,018
And that would take a lot of--
655
00:28:05,018 --> 00:28:06,586
No, you're not breaking
this glass.
656
00:28:06,586 --> 00:28:08,521
She sets the fire inside
with all the windows closed.
657
00:28:08,521 --> 00:28:10,357
- Closed.
- And if this
658
00:28:10,357 --> 00:28:14,160
starts burning those seats,
car pit, or the accelerant,
659
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,764
it's gonna quickly fill up
with super-heated toxic gas,
660
00:28:17,764 --> 00:28:20,567
carbon monoxide, robbing
of all the oxygen inside.
661
00:28:20,567 --> 00:28:22,769
She's not gonna have
a lot of time.
662
00:28:22,769 --> 00:28:25,839
It could be anywhere
from seconds to minutes
663
00:28:25,839 --> 00:28:27,207
depending on the amount of heat.
664
00:28:27,207 --> 00:28:29,376
I don't think
she could crawl back here
665
00:28:29,376 --> 00:28:31,911
if the fire
was started in the vehicle
666
00:28:31,911 --> 00:28:34,748
and she's trying
to get over those back seats.
667
00:28:34,748 --> 00:28:37,117
I can do it.
Look. Lookee here.
668
00:28:37,117 --> 00:28:40,587
If you're in this car
and you wanna get out,
669
00:28:40,587 --> 00:28:41,855
you can come through here.
670
00:28:41,855 --> 00:28:43,723
It's gonna be a squeeze.
671
00:28:43,723 --> 00:28:47,093
You can get out. You're gonna
get out or you're gonna die
672
00:28:47,093 --> 00:28:48,795
trying to get out.
673
00:28:48,795 --> 00:28:51,398
You can do it.
I'm not saying it's easy.
674
00:28:51,398 --> 00:28:54,134
But what else do we have?
There's anybody else involved?
675
00:28:54,134 --> 00:28:56,202
But how does the accelerant
get in her vehicle?
676
00:28:56,202 --> 00:28:58,405
Is there something in that car?
677
00:28:58,405 --> 00:29:01,241
Does she run out of gas
and carry gas with her?
678
00:29:01,241 --> 00:29:04,010
But we don't have any residue
of a melted container.
679
00:29:04,010 --> 00:29:06,212
She might have had
that drip gas in her tank,
680
00:29:06,212 --> 00:29:08,381
and the rear end with her
sitting in there spinning.
681
00:29:08,381 --> 00:29:10,450
Heat up enough to set it off.
682
00:29:10,450 --> 00:29:12,452
There's no evidence
of the tank rupturing
683
00:29:12,452 --> 00:29:14,087
in an explosion.
684
00:29:14,087 --> 00:29:16,122
Hitting a bunch of bumps
before she hit the final bump
685
00:29:16,122 --> 00:29:17,891
wouldn't do it?
686
00:29:17,891 --> 00:29:21,594
We're confident the fire started
in the passenger floorboard,
687
00:29:21,594 --> 00:29:25,098
only because of articles we have
from the lab at the time
688
00:29:25,098 --> 00:29:27,067
that show drip gas.
689
00:29:27,067 --> 00:29:29,402
- If this is drip gas, right--
- If it is.
690
00:29:29,402 --> 00:29:32,272
If it is, it's
an incendiary fire. I agree.
691
00:29:32,272 --> 00:29:35,041
I can't explain this in there.
It's not there naturally.
692
00:29:35,041 --> 00:29:37,911
And that leads back
to a suspect.
693
00:29:37,911 --> 00:29:41,281
'Cause right now we have
no evidence of a second person.
694
00:29:41,281 --> 00:29:43,817
SIEGLER: The lab report
and experts say
695
00:29:43,817 --> 00:29:45,652
that there has to be
an accelerant involved
696
00:29:45,652 --> 00:29:48,455
in this fire
for it to be this intense.
697
00:29:48,455 --> 00:29:51,057
The other evidence suggests
that there's no way
698
00:29:51,057 --> 00:29:52,359
we can even show
699
00:29:52,359 --> 00:29:55,662
how an accelerant
got inside Natasha's car.
700
00:29:55,662 --> 00:29:59,532
And we haven't talked to one
single person from this party
701
00:29:59,532 --> 00:30:02,168
that ever even knew
what drip gas was.
702
00:30:02,168 --> 00:30:06,106
Arson investigation
has greatly evolved
703
00:30:06,106 --> 00:30:07,974
over the last 30 years.
704
00:30:07,974 --> 00:30:10,844
But it's still not
a perfect science.
705
00:30:10,844 --> 00:30:13,546
So I hear what the experts
are saying,
706
00:30:13,546 --> 00:30:16,383
but it does not make
any sense to me.
707
00:30:16,383 --> 00:30:19,052
We're trying to start
with the fact that she's dead.
708
00:30:19,052 --> 00:30:20,687
The fact that it got stuck
709
00:30:20,687 --> 00:30:22,522
is what starts
this chain of events.
710
00:30:22,522 --> 00:30:24,290
If you're the killer
and you bring the car out here
711
00:30:24,290 --> 00:30:25,992
'cause you wanna burn her in it.
712
00:30:25,992 --> 00:30:28,161
Then you get stuck.
Your plan didn't work very well.
713
00:30:28,161 --> 00:30:30,030
- True.
- If you're her
714
00:30:30,030 --> 00:30:32,399
and you think you're looking
for your right road
715
00:30:32,399 --> 00:30:34,367
and you only got this far,
that makes a lot more sense.
716
00:30:34,367 --> 00:30:35,969
Oh, I agree.
717
00:30:35,969 --> 00:30:38,972
I think it's crazy
that on a case this well known
718
00:30:38,972 --> 00:30:40,540
when we've been talking
about it for 30 years
719
00:30:40,540 --> 00:30:42,509
and I'm sitting here going,
720
00:30:42,509 --> 00:30:44,711
"Damn, is this even
a murder case?"
721
00:30:44,711 --> 00:30:46,646
We still have
a whole lot to go through
722
00:30:46,646 --> 00:30:48,415
and talk about and figure out,
723
00:30:48,415 --> 00:30:50,550
but whatever
the final answer is,
724
00:30:50,750 --> 00:31:09,602
SIEGLER: Throughout the years,
725
00:31:10,403 --> 00:31:12,972
the Texas Rangers
and multiple agencies
726
00:31:12,972 --> 00:31:15,809
have been puzzled
by Natasha Atchley's case.
727
00:31:15,809 --> 00:31:17,243
This is the cold case
728
00:31:17,243 --> 00:31:19,579
that I've wanted to work on
my whole career.
729
00:31:19,579 --> 00:31:23,550
And now that we have been able
to examine all of the evidence
730
00:31:23,550 --> 00:31:25,819
and the crime scene
and the forensics,
731
00:31:25,819 --> 00:31:28,755
I'm having serious doubts
that this is even a murder.
732
00:31:28,755 --> 00:31:30,323
Hey, how you doing?
733
00:31:30,323 --> 00:31:31,691
- Good.
- I'm Steve.
734
00:31:31,691 --> 00:31:33,193
We can talk
wherever you wanna talk.
735
00:31:33,193 --> 00:31:34,728
- Yeah. Just come sit down.
- Come sit down.
736
00:31:34,728 --> 00:31:36,363
SIEGLER: We tried
to talk to Cindy,
737
00:31:36,363 --> 00:31:39,099
and now we're gonna try and talk
to our remaining suspects--
738
00:31:39,099 --> 00:31:40,767
Jim, Kevin, and Chad.
739
00:31:40,767 --> 00:31:42,502
The only thing
that could convince me
740
00:31:42,502 --> 00:31:44,104
that this was a murder
741
00:31:44,104 --> 00:31:48,108
is a huge new piece
of information or a confession.
742
00:31:48,108 --> 00:31:50,010
We have been looking at it
pretty hard and heavy.
743
00:31:50,010 --> 00:31:51,678
I have nothing to hide,
744
00:31:51,678 --> 00:31:54,514
so whatever questions
you guys have, I'll answer 'em.
745
00:31:54,514 --> 00:31:57,217
- How well do you know Natasha?
- We were good friends.
746
00:31:57,217 --> 00:31:59,285
I know that you apparently had
rode to the party with Natasha.
747
00:31:59,285 --> 00:32:00,954
Absolutely.
748
00:32:00,954 --> 00:32:04,858
I go with her. I let her know,
I guess, that I had acid.
749
00:32:04,858 --> 00:32:07,193
She gets a hit from me.
750
00:32:07,193 --> 00:32:09,396
I think most times I gave
her one that wasn't that strong,
751
00:32:09,396 --> 00:32:10,730
'cause she was already
messed up.
752
00:32:10,730 --> 00:32:12,966
- Right.
- So, we get there,
753
00:32:12,966 --> 00:32:16,403
and there was nothing
that made me believe
754
00:32:16,403 --> 00:32:18,238
she was there
for ill intentions.
755
00:32:18,238 --> 00:32:19,906
She was just there
for a good time.
756
00:32:19,906 --> 00:32:21,708
I do remember
Natasha showing up.
757
00:32:21,708 --> 00:32:24,244
Is she fighting, arguing
with you, talking to you?
758
00:32:24,244 --> 00:32:27,313
Not with me. Like I said, we sat
there and talked a little bit.
759
00:32:27,313 --> 00:32:28,815
That's why I got confused
about people saying
760
00:32:28,815 --> 00:32:29,816
that me and her
got in an argument.
761
00:32:29,816 --> 00:32:31,284
Her and Chad got in an argument.
762
00:32:31,284 --> 00:32:32,652
- Right.
- It wasn't me and Natasha.
763
00:32:32,652 --> 00:32:34,154
Do you know
what that argument was about
764
00:32:34,154 --> 00:32:36,289
- between her and Chad?
- I don't.
765
00:32:36,289 --> 00:32:39,926
Natasha came there.
Pulled in there in her car.
766
00:32:39,926 --> 00:32:44,330
She was always kind of known
as a wild child, hell-raiser.
767
00:32:44,330 --> 00:32:47,233
She got out of the car.
She sees me, gets angry,
768
00:32:47,233 --> 00:32:49,569
starts hitting me. I'm like,
what the hell? What's going on?
769
00:32:49,569 --> 00:32:50,837
She said, [bleep].
770
00:32:50,837 --> 00:32:52,605
Your girlfriend at the time.
771
00:32:52,605 --> 00:32:54,941
She said, "She told me what
you've been saying about me."
772
00:32:54,941 --> 00:32:57,510
"I ain't said [bleep] about
you. I don't know what--"
773
00:32:57,510 --> 00:32:59,245
She calmed down
after I was like,
774
00:32:59,245 --> 00:33:01,514
"I don't know
what you're talking about."
775
00:33:01,514 --> 00:33:03,483
And it was really more her
that came at you...
776
00:33:03,483 --> 00:33:05,352
- Oh, yeah.
- ...for whatever reason.
777
00:33:05,352 --> 00:33:08,188
Yeah. It was over pretty fast
if I recall.
778
00:33:08,188 --> 00:33:10,657
SIEGLER: Did you ever see her
get into it verbally
779
00:33:10,657 --> 00:33:12,859
with anybody at the party
besides you?
780
00:33:12,859 --> 00:33:14,260
- Not that I recall.
- Not that you recall?
781
00:33:14,260 --> 00:33:16,429
Was Cindy your girlfriend
that night, on and off?
782
00:33:16,429 --> 00:33:17,597
Yeah. On and off.
783
00:33:17,597 --> 00:33:20,066
Is Cindy upset with Natasha
784
00:33:20,066 --> 00:33:21,601
'cause Natasha
wants to sleep with you?
785
00:33:21,601 --> 00:33:23,436
Honestly? Not that I remember.
786
00:33:23,436 --> 00:33:25,372
SPINGOLA: There's no fight
at the party at all
787
00:33:25,372 --> 00:33:27,374
between the girls, between you,
nothing else?
788
00:33:27,374 --> 00:33:29,075
No, sir. I don't know
how long she was there.
789
00:33:29,075 --> 00:33:30,343
She wasn't there that long,
I don't think.
790
00:33:30,343 --> 00:33:32,145
Maybe 45 minutes to an hour.
791
00:33:32,145 --> 00:33:33,880
I was standing on the porch,
792
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,483
and her and Chad
were over there talking.
793
00:33:36,483 --> 00:33:38,084
She tried to leave.
794
00:33:38,084 --> 00:33:40,387
Nobody got in the passenger seat
of the car.
795
00:33:40,387 --> 00:33:41,788
At least once if not twice,
796
00:33:41,788 --> 00:33:44,157
I put the shifter
back into "park,"
797
00:33:44,157 --> 00:33:45,625
trying to keep her
from driving off,
798
00:33:45,625 --> 00:33:47,093
'cause she was so [bleep] up.
799
00:33:47,093 --> 00:33:48,895
- Why was she leaving?
- I don't know.
800
00:33:48,895 --> 00:33:50,397
You don't remember?
801
00:33:50,397 --> 00:33:51,965
Maybe I knew back then,
but I don't--
802
00:33:51,965 --> 00:33:54,134
Okay. What happened after that?
803
00:33:54,134 --> 00:33:56,302
- I at one point just got out.
- Okay.
804
00:33:56,302 --> 00:33:57,671
And she [bleep] left.
805
00:33:57,671 --> 00:33:59,906
And I seen Natasha
kind of take off,
806
00:33:59,906 --> 00:34:01,708
getting on the road
sliding sideways.
807
00:34:01,708 --> 00:34:03,309
And I remember Chad saying,
"She's [bleep] crazy.
808
00:34:03,309 --> 00:34:04,511
She's [bleep] crazy."
809
00:34:04,511 --> 00:34:06,579
And that was
the last time I saw her.
810
00:34:06,579 --> 00:34:08,648
She fishtails out.
She says something
811
00:34:08,648 --> 00:34:11,551
and she leaves like she's mad.
She's, like, pissed off.
812
00:34:11,551 --> 00:34:12,719
I'm, "What the [bleep]
is going on?"
813
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:14,421
I have no clue at this point.
814
00:34:14,421 --> 00:34:17,190
I'm like, "Well, what
the [bleep]? That's my ride.
815
00:34:17,190 --> 00:34:19,059
That's how I got here."
816
00:34:19,059 --> 00:34:21,161
And everybody's like,
"Just let her go."
817
00:34:21,161 --> 00:34:22,228
"Okay."
818
00:34:22,228 --> 00:34:24,698
One of the witnesses says,
819
00:34:24,698 --> 00:34:27,434
as Natasha took off in her car,
820
00:34:27,434 --> 00:34:29,502
she saw you hiding down
in the passenger seat.
821
00:34:29,502 --> 00:34:31,671
That's so 100% false,
822
00:34:31,671 --> 00:34:33,773
'cause I never freaking left
that property.
823
00:34:33,773 --> 00:34:36,776
About an hour later, I'm like,
"It's time for me to go."
824
00:34:36,776 --> 00:34:39,579
And I asked Jim and Cindy.
825
00:34:39,579 --> 00:34:41,614
I said, "Hey, can you
give me a ride?"
826
00:34:41,614 --> 00:34:43,550
And they said,
"Yeah, we'll give you a ride."
827
00:34:43,550 --> 00:34:45,685
So me, Cindy, and Kevin
got in my car
828
00:34:45,685 --> 00:34:47,687
and took Kevin back to his car
at the bank.
829
00:34:47,687 --> 00:34:50,357
Do you have any idea
how long after that was
830
00:34:50,357 --> 00:34:51,725
that Natasha left?
831
00:34:51,725 --> 00:34:53,960
- Maybe two hours.
- Okay.
832
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:55,695
You don't know how long
after Natasha left
833
00:34:55,695 --> 00:34:57,197
that Jim and Cindy left?
834
00:34:57,197 --> 00:34:59,599
No. I don't think
it was, like, right behind her.
835
00:34:59,599 --> 00:35:01,801
Was there anything
about their leaving
836
00:35:01,801 --> 00:35:04,204
that had to do with Natasha?
837
00:35:04,204 --> 00:35:06,072
- Nothing I know of.
- Okay.
838
00:35:06,072 --> 00:35:07,474
Do you know anything
about drip gas?
839
00:35:07,474 --> 00:35:08,808
Never heard of it
until that day.
840
00:35:08,808 --> 00:35:10,443
You remember seeing
any kind of gas cans
841
00:35:10,443 --> 00:35:11,411
or anything out there
at the house?
842
00:35:11,411 --> 00:35:12,746
No.
843
00:35:12,746 --> 00:35:14,881
No. I don't know
what the [bleep] is...
844
00:35:14,881 --> 00:35:17,317
Nobody at that party [bleep]...
845
00:35:17,317 --> 00:35:18,651
Did you know those wheels
were back there?
846
00:35:18,651 --> 00:35:20,620
No.
847
00:35:20,620 --> 00:35:23,056
Did you talk to Jim or Cindy
after the fact
848
00:35:23,056 --> 00:35:25,225
when y'all found out
what happened to Natasha?
849
00:35:25,225 --> 00:35:27,293
Was there any conversation
between you and Jim?
850
00:35:27,293 --> 00:35:28,728
I don't think so.
851
00:35:28,728 --> 00:35:31,431
What has Jim ever told you
about that night?
852
00:35:31,431 --> 00:35:33,466
Well, he's never
told me anything.
853
00:35:33,466 --> 00:35:36,770
No one has ever told me anything
about being involved.
854
00:35:36,770 --> 00:35:40,940
All three of these suspects
continue to be forthcoming,
855
00:35:40,940 --> 00:35:43,109
and the stories
they're telling us today
856
00:35:43,109 --> 00:35:45,245
matches what they said
in the initial investigation
857
00:35:45,245 --> 00:35:46,613
30 years ago.
858
00:35:46,613 --> 00:35:48,348
- Did you kill Natasha?
- No, sir.
859
00:35:48,348 --> 00:35:51,084
Tell me why you wouldn't
have killed Natasha.
860
00:35:51,084 --> 00:35:52,786
Why would I? I've never
hurt anything in my life.
861
00:35:52,786 --> 00:35:55,455
So, you actually went to jail
for, what, 30 days.
862
00:35:55,455 --> 00:35:57,957
- Something like that, yeah.
- Why didn't you make a deal?
863
00:35:57,957 --> 00:35:59,693
I didn't--I wasn't guilty.
864
00:35:59,693 --> 00:36:01,161
I put myself out there,
865
00:36:01,161 --> 00:36:02,495
and I could've gotten
in a lot of trouble.
866
00:36:02,495 --> 00:36:03,697
I told the grand jury
everything.
867
00:36:03,697 --> 00:36:05,131
Do you remember
taking a polygraph?
868
00:36:05,131 --> 00:36:06,466
Yeah.
869
00:36:06,466 --> 00:36:08,034
What was all that like?
870
00:36:08,034 --> 00:36:09,602
'Cause back then,
you were 20 years old.
871
00:36:09,602 --> 00:36:12,439
I was very nervous.
I mean, it's scary.
872
00:36:12,439 --> 00:36:14,474
But you're still cooperating.
873
00:36:14,474 --> 00:36:16,209
Yeah. I have nothing to hide.
874
00:36:16,209 --> 00:36:19,512
Everybody in this town has been
looking at these three guys
875
00:36:19,512 --> 00:36:22,315
for the last 30 years
like they were killers.
876
00:36:22,315 --> 00:36:25,785
But after talking to them,
I think everybody got it wrong.
877
00:36:25,785 --> 00:36:28,154
I told the cops I was--
878
00:36:28,154 --> 00:36:31,691
I could possibly be the reason
this happened. You know?
879
00:36:31,691 --> 00:36:35,161
I thought she committed suicide
or had a bad trip.
880
00:36:35,161 --> 00:36:38,198
That's what scared me. You know,
I thought it was my fault.
881
00:36:38,198 --> 00:36:40,567
If I knew anything,
I would want to tell.
882
00:36:40,567 --> 00:36:41,634
MONTALVO: Okay.
883
00:36:41,634 --> 00:36:43,503
Because...
884
00:36:43,503 --> 00:36:45,905
it sucks that somebody
has to--
885
00:36:45,905 --> 00:36:48,641
especially family--
has to live with that going on.
886
00:36:48,641 --> 00:36:51,077
And that's what, you know,
really got to me.
887
00:36:51,077 --> 00:36:53,346
It's like how in the hell could
somebody think I could do this.
888
00:36:53,346 --> 00:36:55,548
And that's been eating me
my whole life.
889
00:36:55,548 --> 00:36:57,917
You know,
I want my name out of this,
890
00:36:58,118 --> 00:37:16,436
We wanna make sure that every
question that you have,
891
00:37:17,070 --> 00:37:19,272
- we try to answer.
- Sure.
892
00:37:19,272 --> 00:37:21,074
We've asked
District Attorney Todd Dillon
893
00:37:21,074 --> 00:37:23,209
and his assistant DA,
Rob Freyer,
894
00:37:23,209 --> 00:37:24,944
to join with us today
895
00:37:24,944 --> 00:37:27,213
as we all go over
everything that we've learned.
896
00:37:27,213 --> 00:37:30,383
Why don't we start
with the four suspects
897
00:37:30,383 --> 00:37:32,519
that kept always coming up
in the case file?
898
00:37:32,519 --> 00:37:35,522
When you get back
to this whole party thing,
899
00:37:35,522 --> 00:37:37,724
I think we were all working
under the theory
900
00:37:37,724 --> 00:37:41,127
that there was a fight.
Did we even completely confirm
901
00:37:41,127 --> 00:37:43,797
there was any kind of physical
altercation at the party?
902
00:37:43,797 --> 00:37:45,532
This Chad McGregor--
When Natasha first arrived,
903
00:37:45,532 --> 00:37:47,734
but it was with him.
904
00:37:47,734 --> 00:37:49,769
She sees me, gets angry,
starts hitting me.
905
00:37:49,769 --> 00:37:51,705
I'm like, "What the hell?"
She calmed down
906
00:37:51,705 --> 00:37:53,106
after I was like, "I don't know
what you're talking about."
907
00:37:53,106 --> 00:37:54,708
After that happened,
they were cool again.
908
00:37:54,708 --> 00:37:57,711
Without the fight
being corroborated by anyone,
909
00:37:57,711 --> 00:37:58,912
we don't have a motive.
910
00:37:58,912 --> 00:38:00,447
- Right.
- There's no reason.
911
00:38:00,447 --> 00:38:02,215
The thing
that I thought was compelling
912
00:38:02,215 --> 00:38:04,884
is you have three statements
from all these party kids.
913
00:38:04,884 --> 00:38:06,753
And other than Cindy Henning,
914
00:38:06,753 --> 00:38:08,922
who didn't want us
to come see her,
915
00:38:08,922 --> 00:38:10,557
when we went back
to talk to 'em again
916
00:38:10,557 --> 00:38:13,893
and they're cooperative
and they're happy to talk to us
917
00:38:13,893 --> 00:38:16,730
and they wanna help,
they're still consistent.
918
00:38:16,730 --> 00:38:18,665
How in the hell could
somebody think I could do this?
919
00:38:18,665 --> 00:38:21,267
And that's been eating me
my whole life.
920
00:38:21,267 --> 00:38:24,137
I put myself out there. I told
the grand jury everything.
921
00:38:24,137 --> 00:38:26,673
If I knew anything,
I would want to tell.
922
00:38:26,673 --> 00:38:29,743
We know she was intoxicated
with alcohol.
923
00:38:29,743 --> 00:38:31,611
We know she was on LSD.
924
00:38:31,611 --> 00:38:32,679
There was
no other vehicle involved,
925
00:38:32,679 --> 00:38:34,147
and there's no tire tracks.
926
00:38:34,147 --> 00:38:36,049
There's no other people
outside the car.
927
00:38:36,049 --> 00:38:37,684
Their doors was up.
Their windows was up.
928
00:38:37,684 --> 00:38:39,452
If you're the killer
and you bring the car out here,
929
00:38:39,452 --> 00:38:42,055
'cause you wanna burn her in it,
then you get stuck.
930
00:38:42,055 --> 00:38:43,323
Your plan didn't work very well.
931
00:38:43,323 --> 00:38:45,191
- True.
- If you're her
932
00:38:45,191 --> 00:38:47,627
and you think you're looking
for your right road
933
00:38:47,627 --> 00:38:49,362
and you only got this far,
that makes a lot more sense.
934
00:38:49,362 --> 00:38:51,131
Oh, I agree.
935
00:38:51,131 --> 00:38:54,300
We can't prove that anybody
with intent to do anything?
936
00:38:54,300 --> 00:38:56,436
- Anybody out there at all.
- At all.
937
00:38:56,436 --> 00:38:59,205
For someone to be able
to murder Natasha,
938
00:38:59,205 --> 00:39:02,175
they would have had
to have been able to follow her,
939
00:39:02,175 --> 00:39:05,512
kill her,
put her in the trunk of her car,
940
00:39:05,512 --> 00:39:08,682
set fire to the front seat
rather than her body,
941
00:39:08,682 --> 00:39:12,285
all without even being able
to open the vehicle
942
00:39:12,285 --> 00:39:15,121
and then escape
without leaving any tracks.
943
00:39:15,121 --> 00:39:18,491
As crazy as it sounds
that this fire was an accident,
944
00:39:18,491 --> 00:39:21,795
someone else being able
to set it sounds impossible.
945
00:39:21,795 --> 00:39:23,196
And we felt confident
946
00:39:23,196 --> 00:39:26,032
that we can eliminate
all these suspects
947
00:39:26,032 --> 00:39:28,034
and all these rumors.
948
00:39:28,034 --> 00:39:29,369
These people are innocent.
949
00:39:29,369 --> 00:39:31,404
And it's our job
to say it loud and hard.
950
00:39:31,404 --> 00:39:33,239
- Absolutely.
- Even 30 years later.
951
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:34,908
- Absolutely.
- I think the problem
952
00:39:34,908 --> 00:39:37,210
that everybody here
is gonna have--
953
00:39:37,210 --> 00:39:40,080
you guys more than me
because you live here in Texas--
954
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:41,548
you're putting your chin
right out there.
955
00:39:41,548 --> 00:39:43,383
You're gonna face criticism.
956
00:39:43,383 --> 00:39:45,185
They're gonna tell you you don't
know what you're talking about.
957
00:39:45,185 --> 00:39:47,654
Remember, Rob,
none of those guys
958
00:39:47,654 --> 00:39:51,157
have read every word
of this file like we have,
959
00:39:51,157 --> 00:39:53,526
including the Rangers.
960
00:39:53,526 --> 00:39:55,061
They haven't.
They don't have time to.
961
00:39:55,061 --> 00:39:56,429
- Right.
- And I think
962
00:39:56,429 --> 00:39:58,264
the simplest answer
is right in front of us.
963
00:39:58,264 --> 00:39:59,666
This was some type
of a horrible accident.
964
00:39:59,666 --> 00:40:01,368
I'm not entirely sure
965
00:40:01,368 --> 00:40:04,938
that anybody's ever looked
at this as an accident first.
966
00:40:04,938 --> 00:40:06,873
Everybody kind of went
to the conclusion
967
00:40:06,873 --> 00:40:08,775
that this had to be a murder.
968
00:40:08,775 --> 00:40:10,744
Are we ever gonna be able
to say for sure
969
00:40:10,744 --> 00:40:14,280
what happened in that car
in her mind
970
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,217
to start the fire and make it
burn for so long? No.
971
00:40:17,217 --> 00:40:18,785
At the end of the day,
972
00:40:18,785 --> 00:40:20,854
we just end up finding closure
for a lot of people
973
00:40:20,854 --> 00:40:22,422
that were being kids.
974
00:40:22,422 --> 00:40:25,458
They ended up at a party
and had no role in this
975
00:40:25,458 --> 00:40:28,194
but were falsely accused
for 30 years.
976
00:40:28,194 --> 00:40:30,897
- And it's not even a murder.
- Not even a murder.
977
00:40:30,897 --> 00:40:33,199
And here we are because y'all
let us look at everything.
978
00:40:33,199 --> 00:40:35,235
So did the Sheriff's Department
and the Rangers.
979
00:40:35,235 --> 00:40:37,303
We're honored and privileged
that y'all came and did it.
980
00:40:37,303 --> 00:40:39,739
I think it's been a learning
experience for all of us
981
00:40:39,739 --> 00:40:42,242
and a very relieving experience
982
00:40:42,242 --> 00:40:44,310
for the four folks that you
got up there on that board
983
00:40:44,310 --> 00:40:46,379
that have X's on 'em now.
984
00:40:55,388 --> 00:40:58,058
Don't you think this
is gonna make him feel good
985
00:40:58,058 --> 00:41:00,794
to know that all of Natasha's
friends were not involved?
986
00:41:00,794 --> 00:41:02,629
I believe so.
987
00:41:02,629 --> 00:41:05,065
Coming into this,
I thought this was a murder,
988
00:41:05,065 --> 00:41:07,334
and I wanted it to be a murder
989
00:41:07,334 --> 00:41:09,969
so we could get justice
for what happened to Natasha.
990
00:41:09,969 --> 00:41:13,740
But based on my experience
and all that I've seen,
991
00:41:13,740 --> 00:41:15,442
the evidence is not there.
992
00:41:15,442 --> 00:41:17,143
- Good morning.
- Good morning.
993
00:41:17,143 --> 00:41:18,678
Good morning, little Chad.
994
00:41:18,678 --> 00:41:21,815
The last thing we wanna do
is tell Natasha's brother
995
00:41:21,815 --> 00:41:24,250
that nobody is responsible.
996
00:41:24,250 --> 00:41:28,355
But we can't make sense of this
by blaming an innocent person.
997
00:41:28,355 --> 00:41:31,758
And it's just as important here
to clear these suspects
998
00:41:31,758 --> 00:41:34,361
so they can move on
with their lives, too.
999
00:41:34,361 --> 00:41:36,996
Well, it's been a busy two weeks
since I talked to you.
1000
00:41:36,996 --> 00:41:39,165
And at the end of all of this,
1001
00:41:39,165 --> 00:41:41,301
I can honestly sit here
and tell you
1002
00:41:41,301 --> 00:41:43,470
that anybody at that party
did not have anything
1003
00:41:43,470 --> 00:41:46,239
to do with what happened
to Natasha.
1004
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:49,509
They are completely innocent.
1005
00:41:49,509 --> 00:41:52,112
And the other thing,
I'll tell you,
1006
00:41:52,112 --> 00:41:53,980
I don't believe
she was murdered.
1007
00:41:53,980 --> 00:41:56,316
I don't think it's a murder.
1008
00:41:56,316 --> 00:41:59,552
I wish we could tell you that
we knew what started the fire.
1009
00:41:59,552 --> 00:42:02,355
We don't know.
We're never gonna know.
1010
00:42:02,355 --> 00:42:06,659
I believe it was an accident
inside that car,
1011
00:42:06,659 --> 00:42:11,164
and a lot of it was because of
the state she was in that night.
1012
00:42:11,164 --> 00:42:13,833
I mean,
that kind of makes sense.
1013
00:42:13,833 --> 00:42:16,069
I mean,
I can see that happening.
1014
00:42:16,069 --> 00:42:18,338
I wonder where the fire started.
1015
00:42:18,338 --> 00:42:21,975
But it's gonna take a while
to come to grasp with that.
1016
00:42:21,975 --> 00:42:25,211
I guess 'cause you
don't have anybody to blame.
1017
00:42:25,211 --> 00:42:27,547
I just think it's very important
for you to know
1018
00:42:27,547 --> 00:42:29,916
it's not like we didn't
quite have enough evidence
1019
00:42:29,916 --> 00:42:31,651
against somebody.
1020
00:42:31,651 --> 00:42:33,920
I don't believe
that there's anything
1021
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,523
to look at anymore for any kind
of murder investigation.
1022
00:42:36,523 --> 00:42:39,526
It's weird now,
1023
00:42:39,526 --> 00:42:42,595
considering this may have been
an accidental death.
1024
00:42:42,595 --> 00:42:44,330
I can accept it.
1025
00:42:44,330 --> 00:42:47,567
Would have I expected it?
No. No.
1026
00:42:47,567 --> 00:42:49,602
It's gonna take a little bit
to process,
1027
00:42:49,602 --> 00:42:52,605
but I am glad that it's cleared
a lot of people's names.
1028
00:42:52,605 --> 00:42:56,109
You're a victim here
more than anybody but Natasha.
1029
00:42:56,109 --> 00:42:58,912
You and your mom
and your brother, right?
1030
00:42:58,912 --> 00:43:01,715
You lost a lot of your life
because of all this,
1031
00:43:01,715 --> 00:43:04,050
and I think that what we will
both tell you today
1032
00:43:04,050 --> 00:43:06,419
is you need to move on.
1033
00:43:06,419 --> 00:43:09,956
Can you please try to move on
and put this behind you?
1034
00:43:09,956 --> 00:43:11,558
There's no option there.
1035
00:43:11,558 --> 00:43:13,059
That's what we want you to do.
1036
00:43:13,059 --> 00:43:14,627
You handled it very well,
you know.
1037
00:43:14,627 --> 00:43:16,196
Thank you.
1038
00:43:16,196 --> 00:43:17,597
Coming into this case
1039
00:43:17,597 --> 00:43:20,800
where everybody believed
it was a murder
1040
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,703
and figuring out that it was
really just an accident
1041
00:43:23,703 --> 00:43:25,472
might not seem like justice,
1042
00:43:25,472 --> 00:43:28,475
but I think that being able
to tell all these people,
1043
00:43:28,475 --> 00:43:30,477
especially Natasha's family,
1044
00:43:30,477 --> 00:43:33,780
that this is what happened
and these are the answers,
1045
00:43:33,780 --> 00:43:35,281
that is justice.
1046
00:43:37,384 --> 00:43:40,253
* Yeah *
1047
00:43:40,253 --> 00:43:44,724
* I saw you grow *